So at the next election Tories are going to be droning on about Europe, and some stuff about giving politicians more power in England. It won't happen before then. Oh and some tractor stats.
Meanwhile Labour will be talking about the disastrous Tory privatisation of the NHS and the worsening Cost of Living Crisis.
Gideon's a strategic genius.
Therein lies the post of a rattled Labour supporter who has finally realized the game is up.
About as rattled as a Romanian builder living next door to a cowering UKIP racist pensioner.
Well let us look at the bollocks you posted.
Firstly the privatization of the NHS was begun by Burnham, though of course you know that. As for the worsening cost of living crisis, wage increases now outstrip inflation.
Will Labour be talking about the NHS in Wales and how fantastically it is performing under Labour.
Thanks. Some good points/issues there. It will be interesting to see if HS2 (at its London end) is regarded as a EV4EL issue, on the grounds of devolution to Scotland of transport.
I assume - but may be wrong - that the logic for the E-G link is not so much as a link in itself but because it forms the two upper arms of the Y needed to connect to HS2, 3, 4, ... - equivalent to the WCML electrification of Carlisle to Carstairs and then Edin and Glasgow. The use of a HS2 grade route for E-G transport may not be worthwhile given the perfectly good links on other routes and the need to serve intermediate stations. However, as I recall, it was for a time used for fast trains between E and G nevertheless even in recent years, so perhaps using HS grade trains on this line would be useful like those commuter trains on HS1 from Ashford.
We're getting way off-topic, but HS2 trains would really need a new route as they are built to a much larger loading gauge, and the terminal stations would also need to be rebuilt to support them. The lower-speed (although still high-speed 'Classic UK compatible' trains would be able to run on normal lines, though.
I'm not sure what the answer is for Edinburgh to Glasgow. It'll be interesting to see if the extra capacity given by EGIP (13 trains per hour, I think, up from five or six) is filled in the next few years.
As a way of going even further off-topic, I see Salmond recently called for regular steam excursions on the Waverley Line when it opened. It's a shame the line wasn't designed for 'regular' such services. At least that's the way it's been reported down here. Any view on it?
Building a High Speed line would cost an awful lot of money and fares would inevitably be high than a standard train. How many will be prepared to pay a premium to save fifteen minutes? I am not sure even the ardent HS supporter could write a business case that stood scrutiny.
You are being naive HL, the Fatcats who will use HS2 wont be paying anything. They'll be charging it to their expenses so that the taxpayers or shareholders get to do the paying.
Aaaaah IOS, Ed's a disaster and was again in the media today, but the ground war will win it for Ed despite everything eh.......
Just like it did for the YeSNP...
I'd suggest, with respect, that you find a different name for whatever political body you actually have in mind. That expression does not lead to greater understanding but the reverse, as other posts on this thread make quite clear.
So at the next election Tories are going to be droning on about Europe, and some stuff about giving politicians more power in England. It won't happen before then. Oh and some tractor stats.
Meanwhile Labour will be talking about the disastrous Tory privatisation of the NHS and the worsening Cost of Living Crisis.
Gideon's a strategic genius.
Therein lies the post of a rattled Labour supporter who has finally realized the game is up.
About as rattled as a Romanian builder living next door to a cowering UKIP racist pensioner.
Well let us look at the bollocks you posted.
Firstly the privatization of the NHS was begun by Burnham, though of course you know that. As for the worsening cost of living crisis, wage increases now outstrip inflation.
Will Labour be talking about the NHS in Wales and how fantastically it is performing under Labour.
Hugh has been disconnected from the Borg collective for some time. The information once provided by the collective is now random nonsense (cf Ed Miliband). One can feel Hugh's pain wandering about, no one listening, no one to care for him. We should be sympathetic.
To highlight some of the points made at the start of this thread about the uprising of support for the SNP at a grassroots level. Here in Perth (which is quite a conservative town, in nature if not by voting) there was a march of YES campaigners through the town centre today that had apparently been organised on facebook without any politcal party input. Several hundred seem to of taken part today in this which was not did not attract any policing with it being very much done by word of mouth. I do think that the SNP will benifit from a much more enthused membership at next year's election and it will be very surprising if they did not take several seats off both the LDs and LAB. If the Lib Dems get more than 2 seats in Scotland it would be quite surprising the moment with only the very northern seats looking possible (It would still be a shock for them to lose the seat of Shetland and Orkney)
It will be very interesting indeed to see how many of the newly-registered voters in Scotland carry their interest forward to the GE. They could upset quite a few calculations, in various directions.
So Labour want to increase the minimum wage, and therefore the cost of childcare, by more than inflation. But at the same time, increase child benefit by less than inflation. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29301289 There goes the Mumsnet vote.
My 40-1 long shot for the next Tory leader is making his presence felt again on behalf of the grassroots,the racist nans and homophobic granddads,and those who like to see a fox gutted by a pack of bloodthirsty hounds.Owen Paterson would carry a congregation of least 30 incorrigibles.the incorrigiblistas,trouble makers each and every one of them.Of course,they should be encouraged and it is good to see Owen Paterson leading them from their spiritual desert.He represents a good trading position should he stand for Tory leader.Stranger things have happened and the Tory party is like a bunch of headless chickens.He's bull-headed enough to go for it too.
My 40-1 long shot for the next Tory leader is making his presence felt again on behalf of the grassroots,the racist nans and homophobic granddads,and those who like to see a fox gutted by a pack of bloodthirsty hounds.Owen Paterson would carry a congregation of least 30 incorrigibles.the incorrigiblistas,trouble makers each and every one of them.Of course,they should be encouraged and it is good to see Owen Paterson leading them from their spiritual desert.He represents a good trading position should he stand for Tory leader.Stranger things have happened and the Tory party is like a bunch of headless chickens.He's bull-headed enough to go for it too.
So Labour want to increase the minimum wage, and therefore the cost of childcare, by more than inflation. But at the same time, increase child benefit by less than inflation. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29301289 There goes the Mumsnet vote.
So kippers are now complaining that Cameron is a man of his word?
A change of attitude slightly!
Can't speak for kippers, but there's been an on-the-hoof flavour to it - EV4EL suddenly became an essential ancillary to Scottish devolution, reinforced by the utterances of the Chief Whip in his exciting new job, then 24 hours later it equally suddenly wasn't. Cameron is a man of his word, when other alternatives fail.
I don't think Cameron ever wanted EVFEL -though many in the party did. It would have hampered his real intention -to protect the ongoing two party pantomime and left wing political consensus. What he intended was to be seen as being on the side of EVFEL, and portray Labour as blocking it. A standard Cameron gambit -usually one that he does with the Lib Dems. Giving it to a sold out drone like Hague to look at was a good sign no serious change is intended -see also 'cost benefit analysis of the eu'.
I expect the number of SNP MPs to increase in the next Parliament but not by much and mainly at the expense of the Lib Dems who are in melt down. This is very unlikely to make any difference to the SNP.
Of much, much greater importance to the SNP is the next Scottish elections. If there is to be any chance of a re-match on the referendum whilst those active in politics now are still about a whole series of bricks have to fall into place. The first, and by far the most important, of these is going to be seeking another Holyrood majority.
I think it is unlikely they will achieve this but that will be their focus. After the huge expenditure on the referendum I seriously doubt they will want to be wasting too much money on getting more irrelevant back benchers in 2015.
If Labour are to stop them they need some new heavyweight management which will involve either Gordon Brown, Jim Murphy or both. The current leadership is just embarrassing and it is very important that Labour start to take the Scottish Parliament a bit more seriously.
Interesting. One issue that might be added is the gerrymandered mathematics of the Holyrood Parliament election system. Has anyone published an analysis of what is actually required to get round that and achieve a majority? I know the SNP managed that in 2011, but that was to the surprise of everyone, not least the Labour architects, and I wonder if it was a quirk of the mathematics.
However, I rather think that Westminster is not as irrelevant as it may seem. Those back benchers may be very relevant in a hung or close parliament. And to gain them at all would emphasise the SNP's defeat of SLAB in a way which struck home very deeply, following on from the indyref.
So Labour want to increase the minimum wage, and therefore the cost of childcare, by more than inflation. But at the same time, increase child benefit by less than inflation. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29301289 There goes the Mumsnet vote.
We need to increase the minimum wage so that people can afford to buy the imported consumer tat that can't be made here because our wages are too high.
Thanks. Some good points/issues there. It will be interesting to see if HS2 (at its London end) is regarded as a EV4EL issue, on the grounds of devolution to Scotland of transport.
I assume - but may be wrong - that the logic for the E-G link is not so much as a link in itself but because it forms the two upper arms of the Y needed to connect to HS2, 3, 4, ... - equivalent to the WCML electrification of Carlisle to Carstairs and then Edin and Glasgow. The use of a HS2 grade route for E-G transport may not be worthwhile given the perfectly good links on other routes and the need to serve intermediate stations. However, as I recall, it was for a time used for fast trains between E and G nevertheless even in recent years, so perhaps using HS grade trains on this line would be useful like those commuter trains on HS1 from Ashford.
We're getting way off-topic, but HS2 trains would really need a new route as they are built to a much larger loading gauge, and the terminal stations would also need to be rebuilt to support them. The lower-speed (although still high-speed 'Classic UK compatible' trains would be able to run on normal lines, though.
I'm not sure what the answer is for Edinburgh to Glasgow. It'll be interesting to see if the extra capacity given by EGIP (13 trains per hour, I think, up from five or six) is filled in the next few years.
As a way of going even further off-topic, I see Salmond recently called for regular steam excursions on the Waverley Line when it opened. It's a shame the line wasn't designed for 'regular' such services. At least that's the way it's been reported down here. Any view on it?
Building a High Speed line would cost an awful lot of money and fares would inevitably be high than a standard train. How many will be prepared to pay a premium to save fifteen minutes? I am not sure even the ardent HS supporter could write a business case that stood scrutiny.
You are being naive HL, the Fatcats who will use HS2 wont be paying anything. They'll be charging it to their expenses so that the taxpayers or shareholders get to do the paying.
That is as maybe and is already the case with a significant proportion rail journeys. How many of such business travellers will there be whose firms will fork out the premium price for the sake of 15 minutes? I suggest not enough to make a business case that will stand scrutiny.
@LordAshcroft: The new pro-Scottish Independence group "the 45" issue boycott warning to brands that supported the NO campaign http://t.co/ie0165MNKB
I like it does still say 'apparently' tricked more than two million people (so not a single genuine supporter of No it seems), I guess it's not certain?
Also, it sounds exhausting having to seek out the views of a company on particular issues to determine if you can use their products or not. A bit simpler in this case, but still a bit of work to avoid them all.
@AllyM – To summarise, the 45ers are in denial, they will either explode,or just go phutt. - Quite honestly, I really don't know how to make a call on Scotland over the next 6 months, for want of a better word, it is 'transitional' ; )
Kate Hoey, Labour MP for Vauxhall and a minister in Tony Blair's government, said: "I have had a lot of response this weekend from a number of MPs who feel the same.
I'm very clear that the right thing to do is that Scottish MPs should not be able to vote on those big issues that are affecting England only
"Some of them may not speak out until later in the week because, clearly, there is a feeling there's a Labour Party conference; we want to have a good conference about other policy issues and this shouldn't be the issue of the week.
"If it's wrong and something needs to be corrected then even if in the short term it looks that it might be a disadvantage to our party, long term - if you do the right thing - it's good for the party. What's right for the country is right for our party.
"The reality is it isn't fair and it's never been fair - since there's been devolution - that English MPs have no say in what's happening in Scotland's health service and education but Scottish MPs have a say on ours.
"I'm very clear that the right thing to do is that Scottish MPs should not be able to vote on those big issues that are affecting England only. The challenge is how we do it.
"I don't think we can do it between now and the General Election but we have to have it as a commitment that that will happen.
"The danger of what Ed is saying about this constitutional convention - even if it might be the right thing to do - it looks like it's just putting it all into the long grass and we don't really care about England. We must not have this idea that Labour doesn't care about England. There's got to be some pretty major things done quickly."
@AllyM – To summarise, the 45ers are in denial, they will either explode,or just go phutt. - Quite honestly, I really don't know how to make a call on Scotland over the next 6 months, for want of a better word, it is 'transitional' ; )
@AllyM – To summarise, the 45ers are in denial, they will either explode,or just go phutt. - Quite honestly, I really don't know how to make a call on Scotland over the next 6 months, for want of a better word, it is 'transitional' ; )
I sense things are rather more substantial than that, in both quality and quantity, and that there will be some permanent change, even if some fall by the wayside.
But you are right about being very wary of predicting the situation just yet. Early days, indeed early weeks and months. A PBer (I forget who) was wise recently to imply that it was daft to worry about small numbers of MPs such as changes to the LDs but ignore Scottish MPs.
I think it's dangerous for Cameron to decouple Devo-MAX and EV4EL. For sure Devo-Max by itself makes the position of the Scottish MPs more absurd but running EV4EL on a separate timetable and putting it the manifesto will allow Labour to claim the Tories are trying to break up the union against the wishes of the Scottish people.
HurstLlama - I have an idea that the break even fare London to Birmingham on HS2 was much less than break even on the existing train service. Something like £8 to £48. It is to do with the speed of the trains which give increased utilisation of the train set. I saw it on the web site London Reconnections, which is very knowledgeable about London trains. I have to admit I was surprised.
So I don't think you will have to be particularly rich to travel on it.
@AllyM – To summarise, the 45ers are in denial, they will either explode,or just go phutt. - Quite honestly, I really don't know how to make a call on Scotland over the next 6 months, for want of a better word, it is 'transitional' ; )
I sense things are rather more substantial than that, in both quality and quantity, and that there will be some permanent change, even if some fall by the wayside.
But you are right about being very wary of predicting the situation just yet. Early days, indeed early weeks and months. A PBer (I forget who) was wise recently to imply that it was daft to worry about small numbers of MPs such as changes to the LDs but ignore Scottish MPs.
They had convinced themselves they were going to win; that there was no other possible result. Their writings and conversations glorified all their own prejudices into virtues, and decried everyone else's beliefs as brainwashing. They shut themselves off from outside opinion. It's going to be hard, but real life needs to intrude upon these people.
I think it's dangerous for Cameron to decouple Devo-MAX and EV4EL. For sure Devo-Max by itself makes the position of the Scottish MPs more absurd but running EV4EL on a separate timetable and putting it the manifesto will allow Labour to claim the Tories are trying to break up the union against the wishes of the Scottish people.
Not very credibly, when he could not really couple it in the first place.
HurstLlama - I have an idea that the break even fare London to Birmingham on HS2 was much less than break even on the existing train service. Something like £8 to £48. It is to do with the speed of the trains which give increased utilisation of the train set. I saw it on the web site London Reconnections, which is very knowledgeable about London trains. I have to admit I was surprised.
So I don't think you will have to be particularly rich to travel on it.
That's an interesting figure, Mr. Paw, I must see if I can find a link for it. However, I was actually talking about the business case for a High Speed line between Edinburgh and Glasgow.
@AllyM – To summarise, the 45ers are in denial, they will either explode,or just go phutt. - Quite honestly, I really don't know how to make a call on Scotland over the next 6 months, for want of a better word, it is 'transitional' ; )
I sense things are rather more substantial than that, in both quality and quantity, and that there will be some permanent change, even if some fall by the wayside. [snip]
You have my sympathy Mr Carnyx – it must be a distressing time for those living in Scotland and witnessing first-hand the consequences of the past week. – without wishing to sound trite, I hope some good comes from all of this and wish you good luck.
Con 282, Lab 282, LD 20, SNP 35, UKIP 5, NI 18, Others 8.
then what ?
In that scenario, the only realistic combo would be Lab+LD+SNP, however, with Con winning most seats in England there could be a backlash from the English.
It's simple really. Whatever Scotland decided, afterwards, it was never going to be acceptable for things to remain the same, north or south of the border. Labour and the Conservatives both need to accept that. Or else.
I think it's dangerous for Cameron to decouple Devo-MAX and EV4EL. For sure Devo-Max by itself makes the position of the Scottish MPs more absurd but running EV4EL on a separate timetable and putting it the manifesto will allow Labour to claim the Tories are trying to break up the union against the wishes of the Scottish people.
I do not see the logic of your came. The ITV headline I am watching now said 'Cameron challenges Miliband to agree to English Votes for English Laws. The also say some Labour MPs are not in agreement with their leader. They are saying 'he must find an answer'.
We can see Miliband feels weak because he has rolled out his wife to say how wonderful he is and how tough she is despite having to look after her 'kids'.
and part of a long list of comments is this statement
I have seen some analysis that suggests £8 to Birmingham would more than cover operating costs (inc rolling stock leasing etc. and with nothing near 100% load factor either). Off peak prices – Virgin £48, LM £22, Chiltern £27.
It's simple really. Whatever Scotland decided, afterwards, it was never going to be acceptable for things to remain the same, north or south of the border. Labour and the Conservatives both need to accept that. Or else.
They clearly do accept that, both of them. There's just disagreement over what needs to happen, unsurprisingly given it has only been a few days. From some of the comments around the interwebs you'd think a discussion and likely future compromise in a few was equal to repudiating the very idea of the vow.
somehow I missed the Edinburgh Glasgow reference, and that is only half the distance on London Birmingham, though the quote might still apply -
As an interesting aside due to the quick journey times and fast acceleration on HS2 comparatively few trains are need as the trains would do twice the number of in service km per day hence the leasing cost / seat / day is potentially spread over double the number of passengers compared to say Virgin currently.
HS2 has a very different and disruptive financial model to current long distance operations.
Thanks. Some good points/issues there. It will be interesting to see if HS2 (at its London end) is regarded as a EV4EL issue, on the grounds of devolution to Scotland of transport.
I assume - but may be wrong - that the logic for the E-G link is not so much as a link in itself but because it forms the two upper arms of the Y needed to connect to HS2, 3, 4, ... - equivalent to the WCML electrification of Carlisle to Carstairs and then Edin and Glasgow. The use of a HS2 grade route for E-G transport may not be worthwhile given the perfectly good links on other routes and the need to serve intermediate stations. However, as I recall, it was for a time used for fast trains between E and G nevertheless even in recent years, so perhaps using HS grade trains on this line would be useful like those commuter trains on HS1 from Ashford.
...?
....
You are being naive HL, the Fatcats who will use HS2 wont be paying anything. They'll be charging it to their expenses so that the taxpayers or shareholders get to do the paying.
That is as maybe and is already the case with a significant proportion rail journeys. How many of such business travellers will there be whose firms will fork out the premium price for the sake of 15 minutes? I suggest not enough to make a business case that will stand scrutiny.
Timesavings are more than 15 minutes. HS2 also frees capacity on WCML
So kippers are now complaining that Cameron is a man of his word?
A change of attitude slightly!
Can't speak for kippers, but there's been an on-the-hoof flavour to it - EV4EL suddenly became an essential ancillary to Scottish devolution, reinforced by the utterances of the Chief Whip in his exciting new job, then 24 hours later it equally suddenly wasn't. Cameron is a man of his word, when other alternatives fail.
Whilst you were a communist until it suited you not to be.
? I decided that communism didn't really work when I was around 20, 44 years ago. You feel this was a cunning career move? Nothing like long-term planning!
Bobby Charlton! Ryan Giggs! Imogen Thomas! Angus Deayton! Terry Christian! Eamon Holmes! Martin Fry! Alex Ferguson-can you hear me, Alex Ferguson? Your boys took one hell of a beating!
So Labour want to increase the minimum wage, and therefore the cost of childcare, by more than inflation. But at the same time, increase child benefit by less than inflation. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29301289 There goes the Mumsnet vote.
£8 by 2020 is barely inflation proof.
A policy to appeal to the dim.
Its Labour conference time and thus time to dole out the free money promises to its client state and frothing activists. Who wants to see Labour in power in 2015?
Stodge @ 7:59pm “What this thread shows is that Conservative policy is predicated on wrong-footing one of its opponents than on any serious belief in real devolution for England.
Devolution is about much more than EV4EL - it should be about the whole nature of the governance of England and that may mean repatriating powers from Westminster and Whitehall to local authorities.”
I think that first sentence should read “What this thread shows is that I BELIEVE Conservative policy is predicated...”
Your second point that starts “Devolution is about much more...” suggests that local authorities should have much more power. Really? My experience, and it is only my experience of the local borough council and I am more than willing to accept there are more competent councils, is that the last thing I would want to do is to give this inept bunch of idiots more powers. Oh and by the way, both I and the local council are Conservatives.
My thoughts on the whole “Vow” thing are: 1) Cameron, like the two other leaders made a promise to the people of Scotland. A promise has to be kept whatever your role in life. 2) Stating that the delivery of resolving the WLQ/EVEL issue should/must be done at the same time as that promise does not retreat from that promise
Unlike others on this site I won’t profess to state categorically what is going through Cameron and his advisors minds. What I do think is that if Cameron didn’t follow point 1 above he would lose the support and respect of more than just his opponents, many Conservatives would be horrified (Please don’t give me the bollocks about Lisbon – he promised a referendum if it wasn’t signed and Gordon Brown went off and signed it. Any referendum after that would have been an opinion poll, nothing else).
I also think that if he has expressed a desire/ a belief that the WLQ/EVEL issue should be sorted out at the same time then you wouldn’t have too many people in his party (and others) complain. What he has done today is to recognise that he alone cannot link the two although he would dearly like to. It now leaves his opponents to say why they won’t allow that.
and part of a long list of comments is this statement
I have seen some analysis that suggests £8 to Birmingham would more than cover operating costs (inc rolling stock leasing etc. and with nothing near 100% load factor either). Off peak prices – Virgin £48, LM £22, Chiltern £27.
Thank you. It is a comment from an anonymous poster quoting something he has seen elsewhere, so not really very authoritative.
Further the £8 is quoted as an operating cost (and so silent on the issue of capital repayment and someone has to replay the tens of billions the line will cost) whilst the £48 is an actual fare. Comparing two different things there, which is very naughty.
Bobby Charlton! Ryan Giggs! Imogen Thomas! Angus Deayton! Terry Christian! Eamon Holmes! Martin Fry! Alex Ferguson-can you hear me, Alex Ferguson? Your boys took one hell of a beating!
Jamie Vardy was involved in all 5 Leicester goals. Great scouting.
Oh, and by the way. I thought Malcolmg was an absolute star coming onto this site on Friday morning. As a Scot living in England I did not agree with his posts but he stood up both before and after the referendum and I have huge respect for him.
Thanks. Some good points/issues there. It will be interesting to see if HS2 (at its London end) is regarded as a EV4EL issue, on the grounds of devolution to Scotland of transport.
I assume - but may be wrong - that the logic for the E-G link is not so much as a link in itself but because it forms the two upper arms of the Y needed to connect to HS2, 3, 4, ... - equivalent to the WCML electrification of Carlisle to Carstairs and then Edin and Glasgow. The use of a HS2 grade route for E-G transport may not be worthwhile given the perfectly good links on other routes and the need to serve intermediate stations. However, as I recall, it was for a time used for fast trains between E and G nevertheless even in recent years, so perhaps using HS grade trains on this line would be useful like those commuter trains on HS1 from Ashford.
...?
....
You are being naive HL, the Fatcats who will use HS2 wont be paying anything. They'll be charging it to their expenses so that the taxpayers or shareholders get to do the paying.
That is as maybe and is already the case with a significant proportion rail journeys. How many of such business travellers will there be whose firms will fork out the premium price for the sake of 15 minutes? I suggest not enough to make a business case that will stand scrutiny.
Timesavings are more than 15 minutes. HS2 also frees capacity on WCML
Yes Mr. Path, but I wasn't talking about HS2, I replied to a post From Mr. Jessop about the idea of a high speed line between Edinburgh and Glasgow. Mr. Richard responded to me I responded to him.
The fifteen minutes was what Mr. Jessop said would be saved if an Edinburgh to Glasgow line was built.
? I decided that communism didn't really work when I was around 20, 44 years ago. You feel this was a cunning career move? Nothing like long-term planning!
Well, congratulations on your insight at age 20, Nick, even if it was rather later than the rest of us came to the same conclusion. The question is: how old will you be before you finally admit that Labour's approach doesn't really work?
? I decided that communism didn't really work when I was around 20, 44 years ago. You feel this was a cunning career move? Nothing like long-term planning!
Well, congratulations on your insight at age 20, Nick, even if it was rather later than the rest of us came to the same conclusion.
Most people do not consider the question until they are in their late teens/early 20s. Only wonks think about communism in a serious way before then.
? I decided that communism didn't really work when I was around 20, 44 years ago. You feel this was a cunning career move? Nothing like long-term planning!
Well, congratulations on your insight at age 20, Nick, even if it was rather later than the rest of us came to the same conclusion. The question is: how old will you be before you finally admit that Labour's approach doesn't really work?
This is a man with no love for this country, he said so himself a few months ago.
He is a career politician who wants to be re-elected for his own ego, and the trimmings that come with it. He would love to turn the UK into Scandinavia but he won't get the chance, Soubry will be the only Tory I support in May, not that I like her but I despise Palmer and his type.
Oh, and by the way. I thought Malcolmg was an absolute star coming onto this site on Friday morning. As a Scot living in England I did not agree with his posts but he stood up both before and after the referendum and I have huge respect for him.
Indeed.
It will be interesting next May if Ed is NOT PM how many show up to congratulate Jack W
Thanks. Some good points/issues there. It will be interesting to see if HS2 (at its London end) is regarded as a EV4EL issue, on the grounds of devolution to Scotland of transport.
I assume - but may be wrong - that the logic for the E-G link is not so much as a link in itself but because it forms the two upper arms of the Y needed to connect to HS2, 3, 4, ... - equivalent to the WCML electrification of Carlisle to Carstairs and then Edin and Glasgow. The use of a HS2 grade route for E-G transport may not be worthwhile given the perfectly good links on other routes and the need to serve intermediate stations. However, as I recall, it was for a time used for fast trains between E and G nevertheless even in recent years, so perhaps using HS grade trains on this line would be useful like those commuter trains on HS1 from Ashford.
...?
....
You are being naive HL, the Fatcats who will use HS2 wont be paying anything. They'll be charging it to their expenses so that the taxpayers or shareholders get to do the paying.
That is as maybe and is already the case with a significant proportion rail journeys. How many of such business travellers will there be whose firms will fork out the premium price for the sake of 15 minutes? I suggest not enough to make a business case that will stand scrutiny.
Timesavings are more than 15 minutes. HS2 also frees capacity on WCML
Yes Mr. Path, but I wasn't talking about HS2, I replied to a post From Mr. Jessop about the idea of a high speed line between Edinburgh and Glasgow. Mr. Richard responded to me I responded to him.
The fifteen minutes was what Mr. Jessop said would be saved if an Edinburgh to Glasgow line was built.
Apols. In that case you make fair points. I would be surprised if the savings were 15 minutes - I've driven it frequently and it must be about 40-odd miles as the crow flies. I don't have a problem with an efficient service and improvements though - say electrification. I would not call that a new high speed line. The Liverpool Manchester link is being improved and electrified. This tory govt is doing a lot for rail investment in the NW - but I don't expect that to be shouted much.
Hmm... after a quick look, the Scottish govt do not seem to have covered themselves in glory over the rail developments between Edinburgh and Glasgow.
Oh, and by the way. I thought Malcolmg was an absolute star coming onto this site on Friday morning. As a Scot living in England I did not agree with his posts but he stood up both before and after the referendum and I have huge respect for him.
Indeed.
It will be interesting next May if Ed is NOT PM how many show up to congratulate Jack W
I will but I am sure JackW will have some reason if EICIPM why he was right really
So, to summarise, the feeling is that Labour are planning to go into the next election on a twin platform of denying voters a referendum on EU membership, and on persisting with the anomaly of Scots getting to decide their own affairs whilst also being able to elect MPs who can interfere in England-only affairs?
Oh, and by the way. I thought Malcolmg was an absolute star coming onto this site on Friday morning. As a Scot living in England I did not agree with his posts but he stood up both before and after the referendum and I have huge respect for him.
Indeed.
It will be interesting next May if Ed is NOT PM how many show up to congratulate Jack W
There is a well worn but truthful phrase, if you can't take it don't dish it out, something Tim never learnt.
Malcolm dished out plenty of stick before the referendum, but when it was lost he fronted up, every respect to him for that.
So, to summarise, the feeling is that Labour are planning to do into the next election on a twin platform of denying voters a referendum on EU membership, and on persisting with the anomaly of Scots getting to decide their own affairs whilst also being able to elect MPs who can interfere in England-only affairs?
Planning to go into the election promising reversal of NHS privitisation and ending the decline of real wages i think.
So, to summarise, the feeling is that Labour are planning to do into the next election on a twin platform of denying voters a referendum on EU membership, and on persisting with the anomaly of Scots getting to decide their own affairs whilst also being able to elect MPs who can interfere in England-only affairs?
Planning to go into the election promising reversal of NHS privitisation and ending the decline of real wages i think.
Please explain how that will work BJ.
Privatizing of the NHS began under Labour, will the policy be to say ' Andy Burnham was wrong and we should follow the example of the NHS in Wales'?
? I decided that communism didn't really work when I was around 20, 44 years ago. You feel this was a cunning career move? Nothing like long-term planning!
Well, congratulations on your insight at age 20, Nick, even if it was rather later than the rest of us came to the same conclusion.
Most people do not consider the question until they are in their late teens/early 20s. Only wonks think about communism in a serious way before then.
Well in Scotland you were fit to vote for the existance for your country. !!
Communism is self evidently a terrible opressive system I certainly knew that well before I was 20 and I am of similar vintage to Mr Palmer. But I was aware of the flaws of Labour and its trade union backers by then as well.
PS - I've managed for once to spot the many iterations of the 'quotes' that copied over. Cannot this be stopped??
Re the thread header. I'm not so sure this will be sustained.
I think that having failed to achieve their hoped for Win, the SNP and their actual and potential supporter base, will be somewhat deflated and may fail to progress or even hold their ground in the short term.
In the medium term it’s all very uncertain and I expect there are or will be betting opportunities to be had. A pack of cards was thrown up in the air and no-one was sure how the cards would fall. The cards have now landed but how the new hands will be played seems uncertain.
That sounds a bit Tony Blair-ish, I know (!) but I rather liked this metaphor of his from 2001,
"The Kaleidoscope has been shaken. The pieces are in flux. Soon they will settle again. Before they do, let us re-order this world around us.”
I am going to hold a watching brief on this for now.
So, to summarise, the feeling is that Labour are planning to go into the next election on a twin platform of denying voters a referendum on EU membership, and on persisting with the anomaly of Scots getting to decide their own affairs whilst also being able to elect MPs who can interfere in England-only affairs?
Seems that way.
I think Cameron has played a blinder here. Have been very impressed with his ruthlessness. If, as seems almost certain, 2015 ends in another hung parliament there is no "legitimate" way for Ed Miliband to become Prime Minister.
I could almost feel sorry for Labour except they started all this with their tinkering in the 1990's. Talk about reaping what you sow, LOL!
So, to summarise, the feeling is that Labour are planning to do into the next election on a twin platform of denying voters a referendum on EU membership, and on persisting with the anomaly of Scots getting to decide their own affairs whilst also being able to elect MPs who can interfere in England-only affairs?
Planning to go into the election promising reversal of NHS privitisation and ending the decline of real wages i think.
Please explain how that will work BJ.
Privatizing of the NHS began under Labour, will the policy be to say ' Andy Burnham was wrong and we should follow the example of the NHS in Wales'?
And real wages are finally going up.
On the second point they are not You are wrong had this debate a few weeks ago the ONS figures show still lagging.
On the first clearing massive waiting lists using a few treatment centres is entirely different to the massive privitisation of NHS provision and commissioning. Worse is to come if Cameron doesnt exempt the NHS from proposed competition law.
Will be impossible to restructure patient services for the benefit of patients without getting competition law challenges
Too late to look for the numbers but this will be a major issue at GE2015
Bed for me if you want to pick up tomorrow will look for figures on both issues then.
nigel4england - don't you know - those little girls were too comfortable and mass immigration has been good them by bringing them into the real world (c) Nick Palmer
Does look like Cameron has severed the previously assumed link between further powers for Scotland and EV4EL (or similar) as the quid pro quo. But I think some of my fellow Tories are overreacting. The vow was the vow and that condition was never included... there was the risk of the EV4EL argument meaning nothing for Scotland and that would be a disaster - some of Thursday's No votes were surely based on promises of further powers. Would give a huge boost to the SNP.
Cameron will have to play this one extremely carefully now though - what a mess if "the vow" goes through (on the back of Lab/LD votes) and England gets nothing. Very high stakes just before an election.
So, to summarise, the feeling is that Labour are planning to do into the next election on a twin platform of denying voters a referendum on EU membership, and on persisting with the anomaly of Scots getting to decide their own affairs whilst also being able to elect MPs who can interfere in England-only affairs?
Planning to go into the election promising reversal of NHS privitisation
If you think they are going to do that you are delusional.
So, to summarise, the feeling is that Labour are planning to do into the next election on a twin platform of denying voters a referendum on EU membership, and on persisting with the anomaly of Scots getting to decide their own affairs whilst also being able to elect MPs who can interfere in England-only affairs?
Planning to go into the election promising reversal of NHS privitisation and ending the decline of real wages i think.
Please explain how that will work BJ.
Privatizing of the NHS began under Labour, will the policy be to say ' Andy Burnham was wrong and we should follow the example of the NHS in Wales'?
And real wages are finally going up.
On the second point they are not You are wrong had this debate a few weeks ago the ONS figures show still lagging.
On the first clearing massive waiting lists using a few treatment centres is entirely different to the massive privitisation of NHS provision and commissioning. Worse is to come if Cameron doesnt exempt the NHS from proposed competition law.
Will be impossible to restructure patient services for the benefit of patients without getting competition law challenges
Too late to look for the numbers but this will be a major issue at GE2015
Bed for me if you want to pick up tomorrow will look for figures on both issues then.
A few weeks ago is irrelevant, last figures showed wage settlements had overtaken inflation, though i grant you it was the first time for a long time.
As for the NHS, are you saying competition is a bad thing?
So, to summarise, the feeling is that Labour are planning to do into the next election on a twin platform of denying voters a referendum on EU membership, and on persisting with the anomaly of Scots getting to decide their own affairs whilst also being able to elect MPs who can interfere in England-only affairs?
Planning to go into the election promising reversal of NHS privitisation and ending the decline of real wages i think.
Please explain how that will work BJ.
Privatizing of the NHS began under Labour, will the policy be to say ' Andy Burnham was wrong and we should follow the example of the NHS in Wales'?
And real wages are finally going up.
On the second point they are not You are wrong had this debate a few weeks ago the ONS figures show still lagging.
On the first clearing massive waiting lists using a few treatment centres is entirely different to the massive privitisation of NHS provision and commissioning. Worse is to come if Cameron doesnt exempt the NHS from proposed competition law.
Will be impossible to restructure patient services for the benefit of patients without getting competition law challenges
Too late to look for the numbers but this will be a major issue at GE2015
Bed for me if you want to pick up tomorrow will look for figures on both issues then.
A few weeks ago is irrelevant, last figures showed wage settlements had overtaken inflation, though i grant you it was the first time for a long time.
As for the NHS, are you saying competition is a bad thing?
Does look like Cameron has severed the previously assumed link between further powers for Scotland and EV4EL (or similar) as the quid pro quo. But I think some of my fellow Tories are overreacting. The vow was the vow and that condition was never included... there was the risk of the EV4EL argument meaning nothing for Scotland and that would be a disaster - some of Thursday's No votes were surely based on promises of further powers. Would give a huge boost to the SNP.
Cameron will have to play this one extremely carefully now though - what a mess if "the vow" goes through (on the back of Lab/LD votes) and England gets nothing. Very high stakes just before an election.
If "England get's nothing" (which it won't before May let's be honest) it will be entirely down to the self-serving Labour Party and the duplicitous Lib-Dems.
Hopefully English voters (especially those in the Midlands and North) will know where to cast their votes in May to ensure the outrage of Scottish MP's voting on English issue's is ended once and for all.
So, to summarise, the feeling is that Labour are planning to do into the next election on a twin platform of denying voters a referendum on EU membership, and on persisting with the anomaly of Scots getting to decide their own affairs whilst also being able to elect MPs who can interfere in England-only affairs?
Planning to go into the election promising reversal of NHS privitisation and ending the decline of real wages i think.
Please explain how that will work BJ.
Privatizing of the NHS began under Labour, will the policy be to say ' Andy Burnham was wrong and we should follow the example of the NHS in Wales'?
And real wages are finally going up.
On the second point they are not You are wrong had this debate a few weeks ago the ONS figures show still lagging.
On the first clearing massive waiting lists using a few treatment centres is entirely different to the massive privitisation of NHS provision and commissioning. Worse is to come if Cameron doesnt exempt the NHS from proposed competition law.
Will be impossible to restructure patient services for the benefit of patients without getting competition law challenges
Too late to look for the numbers but this will be a major issue at GE2015
Bed for me if you want to pick up tomorrow will look for figures on both issues then.
A few weeks ago is irrelevant, last figures showed wage settlements had overtaken inflation, though i grant you it was the first time for a long time.
As for the NHS, are you saying competition is a bad thing?
I read somewhere that within the NHS there is one nurse for every manager, but within the private sector there is one manager for every five nurses. Obviously the NHS has services that private healthcare does not provide, A&E being the obvious one, but surely a 1:3 ratio would be much more like it? Would genuinely like your views on this with no political point scoring rubbish.
So, to summarise, the feeling is that Labour are planning to do into the next election on a twin platform of denying voters a referendum on EU membership, and on persisting with the anomaly of Scots getting to decide their own affairs whilst also being able to elect MPs who can interfere in England-only affairs?
Planning to go into the election promising reversal of NHS privitisation and ending the decline of real wages i think.
Please explain how that will work BJ.
Privatizing of the NHS began under Labour, will the policy be to say ' Andy Burnham was wrong and we should follow the example of the NHS in Wales'?
And real wages are finally going up.
On the second point they are not You are wrong had this debate a few weeks ago the ONS figures show still lagging.
On the first clearing massive waiting lists using a few treatment centres is entirely different to the massive privitisation of NHS provision and commissioning. Worse is to come if Cameron doesnt exempt the NHS from proposed competition law.
Will be impossible to restructure patient services for the benefit of patients without getting competition law challenges
Too late to look for the numbers but this will be a major issue at GE2015
Bed for me if you want to pick up tomorrow will look for figures on both issues then.
A few weeks ago is irrelevant, last figures showed wage settlements had overtaken inflation, though i grant you it was the first time for a long time.
As for the NHS, are you saying competition is a bad thing?
Competition law when it gets in the way of providing better integrated care for patients is a very bad thing. It stops acute hospitals agreeing sensible pathways with other healthcare providers for the benefit of the patient as it is deemed anti competitive.
Come to the Manchester meeting on Tuesday and we can discuss over a pint
Tory PBers cured of Rotherham Tourettes but now afflicted with EV4EL OCD
BJ, please explain to me, given the huge multiculturalism experiment of the left, how are the ONE THOUSAND FOUR HUNDRED victims of Rotherham viewed?
Collateral damage?
Multiculturalism is here to stay get over it
Rotherham and EV4EL aren't GE2015 the game changers that PB Tories hope.
Trying to blame Rape on Multiculturalism is vile.
Actually BJ what really is evil is denying who committed these disgusting crimes and why, I'm sure if you delved further afield into the psychiatric branches of the NHS you would see what a devastating effect these rapes have had on the victims.
Maybe you should take it further but I doubt you will as the conclusions will be too uncomfortable for your ideals.
bigjohnowls - how do explain the teaching "white girls are prostitutes" in Birmingham schools.
Not sure what you mean but rape is wrong no matter who carries it out and I understand most purpetrators are British
For almost everything in Britain, most things are done by British people. Equally, most people are White in this country.
This is not rocket science.
But, when ANY group rapes children, any organisation that protects those rapists and allows them to carry on raping children is EVIL.
That's Rotherham Labour Party in this case and you should condemn them without equivocation, not try to use some phony anti-racism to excuse your party's moral decrepitude.
Cameron doesn't have to boil the entire EV4EL ocean at once.
Stage 1 is no Scot or Welsh MP's banned from voting and committees on solely English issues.
As the SNP already works this way informally can be made formal in moments.
Sort out long term solution slowly.
Unless labour get a majority in England, why should any labour policies apply in England
Come on leftie types and Nick Palmer, where's your argument that it's democratic or fair?
Maybe leftie types have no answer. But I think there is an argument that NOT implementing EV4EL is democratic and fair albeit a difficult one to express. Essentially EV4EL with devo-MAX would result in a de facto English Parliament requiring an English 1st minister. Scottish MPs would become irrelevant and be replaced the MSP's making the occassional trip to Westminister to decide UK matters. The UK prime minister would presumably have to be the same person as the English 1st minister due to the huge size difference between the countries. The Scots would presumably would not tolerate such a state of affairs for long and independence would result. But this end point is against the wish of Scots according to last week's referendum. Hence the status quo is the only thing that has a democratic mandate.
Comments
Firstly the privatization of the NHS was begun by Burnham, though of course you know that. As for the worsening cost of living crisis, wage increases now outstrip inflation.
Will Labour be talking about the NHS in Wales and how fantastically it is performing under Labour.
But at the same time, increase child benefit by less than inflation.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29301289
There goes the Mumsnet vote.
A policy to appeal to the dim.
http://online.wsj.com/articles/climate-science-is-not-settled-1411143565?mod=e2tw
Yeah, this is going really badly for Cameron...
However, I rather think that Westminster is not as irrelevant as it may seem. Those back benchers may be very relevant in a hung or close parliament. And to gain them at all would emphasise the SNP's defeat of SLAB in a way which struck home very deeply, following on from the indyref.
Also, it sounds exhausting having to seek out the views of a company on particular issues to determine if you can use their products or not. A bit simpler in this case, but still a bit of work to avoid them all.
"one bottom line must be to end this ridiculous favoured status of Scottish MPs"
I'm very clear that the right thing to do is that Scottish MPs should not be able to vote on those big issues that are affecting England only
"Some of them may not speak out until later in the week because, clearly, there is a feeling there's a Labour Party conference; we want to have a good conference about other policy issues and this shouldn't be the issue of the week.
"If it's wrong and something needs to be corrected then even if in the short term it looks that it might be a disadvantage to our party, long term - if you do the right thing - it's good for the party. What's right for the country is right for our party.
"The reality is it isn't fair and it's never been fair - since there's been devolution - that English MPs have no say in what's happening in Scotland's health service and education but Scottish MPs have a say on ours.
"I'm very clear that the right thing to do is that Scottish MPs should not be able to vote on those big issues that are affecting England only. The challenge is how we do it.
"I don't think we can do it between now and the General Election but we have to have it as a commitment that that will happen.
"The danger of what Ed is saying about this constitutional convention - even if it might be the right thing to do - it looks like it's just putting it all into the long grass and we don't really care about England. We must not have this idea that Labour doesn't care about England. There's got to be some pretty major things done quickly."
Chaos in Downing Street...
But you are right about being very wary of predicting the situation just yet. Early days, indeed early weeks and months. A PBer (I forget who) was wise recently to imply that it was daft to worry about small numbers of MPs such as changes to the LDs but ignore Scottish MPs.
More good press for Ed...
So I don't think you will have to be particularly rich to travel on it.
Con 282, Lab 282, LD 20, SNP 35, UKIP 5, NI 18, Others 8.
then what ?
@politicshome: Monday's Independent front page - Labour's plan to freeze child benefit http://t.co/nxrJvSyVfg
Oh...
The ITV headline I am watching now said 'Cameron challenges Miliband to agree to English Votes for English Laws.
The also say some Labour MPs are not in agreement with their leader. They are saying 'he must find an answer'.
We can see Miliband feels weak because he has rolled out his wife to say how wonderful he is and how tough she is despite having to look after her 'kids'.
Cameron may never recover...
http://www.londonreconnections.com/2013/old-oak-part-3/
and part of a long list of comments is this statement
I have seen some analysis that suggests £8 to Birmingham would more than cover operating costs (inc rolling stock leasing etc. and with nothing near 100% load factor either).
Off peak prices – Virgin £48, LM £22, Chiltern £27.
somehow I missed the Edinburgh Glasgow reference, and that is only half the distance on London Birmingham, though the quote might still apply -
As an interesting aside due to the quick journey times and fast acceleration on HS2 comparatively few trains are need as the trains would do twice the number of in service km per day hence the leasing cost / seat / day is potentially spread over double the number of passengers compared to say Virgin currently.
HS2 has a very different and disruptive financial model to current long distance operations.
HS2 also frees capacity on WCML
Who wants to see Labour in power in 2015?
“What this thread shows is that Conservative policy is predicated on wrong-footing one of its opponents than on any serious belief in real devolution for England.
Devolution is about much more than EV4EL - it should be about the whole nature of the governance of England and that may mean repatriating powers from Westminster and Whitehall to local authorities.”
I think that first sentence should read “What this thread shows is that I BELIEVE Conservative policy is predicated...”
Your second point that starts “Devolution is about much more...” suggests that local authorities should have much more power. Really? My experience, and it is only my experience of the local borough council and I am more than willing to accept there are more competent councils, is that the last thing I would want to do is to give this inept bunch of idiots more powers. Oh and by the way, both I and the local council are Conservatives.
My thoughts on the whole “Vow” thing are:
1) Cameron, like the two other leaders made a promise to the people of Scotland. A promise has to be kept whatever your role in life.
2) Stating that the delivery of resolving the WLQ/EVEL issue should/must be done at the same time as that promise does not retreat from that promise
Unlike others on this site I won’t profess to state categorically what is going through Cameron and his advisors minds. What I do think is that if Cameron didn’t follow point 1 above he would lose the support and respect of more than just his opponents, many Conservatives would be horrified (Please don’t give me the bollocks about Lisbon – he promised a referendum if it wasn’t signed and Gordon Brown went off and signed it. Any referendum after that would have been an opinion poll, nothing else).
I also think that if he has expressed a desire/ a belief that the WLQ/EVEL issue should be sorted out at the same time then you wouldn’t have too many people in his party (and others) complain. What he has done today is to recognise that he alone cannot link the two although he would dearly like to. It now leaves his opponents to say why they won’t allow that.
Further the £8 is quoted as an operating cost (and so silent on the issue of capital repayment and someone has to replay the tens of billions the line will cost) whilst the £48 is an actual fare. Comparing two different things there, which is very naughty.
Interesting none the less.
But it showed how far a good team ethic goes.
The fifteen minutes was what Mr. Jessop said would be saved if an Edinburgh to Glasgow line was built.
Stage 1 is no Scot or Welsh MP's banned from voting and committees on solely English issues.
As the SNP already works this way informally can be made formal in moments.
Sort out long term solution slowly.
Unless labour get a majority in England, why should any labour policies apply in England
Come on leftie types and Nick Palmer, where's your argument that it's democratic or fair?
Well said, good points all well made.
He is a career politician who wants to be re-elected for his own ego, and the trimmings that come with it. He would love to turn the UK into Scandinavia but he won't get the chance, Soubry will be the only Tory I support in May, not that I like her but I despise Palmer and his type.
It will be interesting next May if Ed is NOT PM how many show up to congratulate Jack W
I don't have a problem with an efficient service and improvements though - say electrification. I would not call that a new high speed line.
The Liverpool Manchester link is being improved and electrified. This tory govt is doing a lot for rail investment in the NW - but I don't expect that to be shouted much.
Hmm... after a quick look, the Scottish govt do not seem to have covered themselves in glory over the rail developments between Edinburgh and Glasgow.
A man who blew a referendum by having no currency answer - and turns out not to be a democrat nor a good loser.
Better hope the super injunction holds Eck...
Malcolm dished out plenty of stick before the referendum, but when it was lost he fronted up, every respect to him for that.
Privatizing of the NHS began under Labour, will the policy be to say ' Andy Burnham was wrong and we should follow the example of the NHS in Wales'?
And real wages are finally going up.
Communism is self evidently a terrible opressive system I certainly knew that well before I was 20 and I am of similar vintage to Mr Palmer. But I was aware of the flaws of Labour and its trade union backers by then as well.
PS - I've managed for once to spot the many iterations of the 'quotes' that copied over. Cannot this be stopped??
I think that having failed to achieve their hoped for Win, the SNP and their actual and potential supporter base, will be somewhat deflated and may fail to progress or even hold their ground in the short term.
In the medium term it’s all very uncertain and I expect there are or will be betting opportunities to be had. A pack of cards was thrown up in the air and no-one was sure how the cards would fall. The cards have now landed but how the new hands will be played seems uncertain.
That sounds a bit Tony Blair-ish, I know (!) but I rather liked this metaphor of his from 2001,
"The Kaleidoscope has been shaken. The pieces are in flux. Soon they will settle again. Before they do, let us re-order this world around us.”
I am going to hold a watching brief on this for now.
Collateral damage?
I think Cameron has played a blinder here. Have been very impressed with his ruthlessness. If, as seems almost certain, 2015 ends in another hung parliament there is no "legitimate" way for Ed Miliband to become Prime Minister.
I could almost feel sorry for Labour except they started all this with their tinkering in the 1990's. Talk about reaping what you sow, LOL!
On the first clearing massive waiting lists using a few treatment centres is entirely different to the massive privitisation of NHS provision and commissioning. Worse is to come if Cameron doesnt exempt the NHS from proposed competition law.
Will be impossible to restructure patient services for the benefit of patients without getting competition law challenges
Too late to look for the numbers but this will be a major issue at GE2015
Bed for me if you want to pick up tomorrow will look for figures on both issues then.
Cameron will have to play this one extremely carefully now though - what a mess if "the vow" goes through (on the back of Lab/LD votes) and England gets nothing. Very high stakes just before an election.
As for the NHS, are you saying competition is a bad thing?
Rotherham and EV4EL aren't GE2015 the game changers that PB Tories hope.
Trying to blame Rape on Multiculturalism is vile.
Hopefully English voters (especially those in the Midlands and North) will know where to cast their votes in May to ensure the outrage of Scottish MP's voting on English issue's is ended once and for all.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09/17/uk-economy-wages-inflation-falling_n_5834074.html?utm_hp_ref=uk
Come to the Manchester meeting on Tuesday and we can discuss over a pint
And it's UKIP you should fear, not the Tories.
Maybe you should take it further but I doubt you will as the conclusions will be too uncomfortable for your ideals.
21/09/2014 22:15
Survation
English & Welsh voting intentions by social grade DE
Labour 35.7%
UKIP 32.5%
Conservatives 22.4%
LibDems 4.9%
Greens 3%
And by the way, with regard to the so called cost of living crisis, the late Bob Crow knew exactly what was keeping down the wages of manual workers.
This is not rocket science.
But, when ANY group rapes children, any organisation that protects those rapists and allows them to carry on raping children is EVIL.
That's Rotherham Labour Party in this case and you should condemn them without equivocation, not try to use some phony anti-racism to excuse your party's moral decrepitude.