The Saturday open thread – politicalbetting.com

Leon said:

Jerry Sadowitz cancelled by the Edinburgh Fringe for being "offensive"

Jerry Sadowitz. Cancelled. On the FRINGE


Yes, that's really Fringe


https://twitter.com/LeoKearse/status/1558462042503348225?s=20&t=PFlBO1YefoBmpyIZrdHHyQ

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Omnium said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

About the elderly our 8 year old grandson said to his Grandma a couple of days ago. 'How old are you Grandma?' When she replied 'I am 82' his face showed great concern as it is not on his agenda that his Grandma would not always be there for him

A bit harsh to describe an 8 year old as elderly. I know they start early these days.

He is a very wise young man and I am sure you understand my point

Leon said:

JosiasJessop said:

Leon said:

Jerry Sadowitz cancelled by the Edinburgh Fringe for being "offensive"

Jerry Sadowitz. Cancelled. On the FRINGE


Yes, that's really Fringe


https://twitter.com/LeoKearse/status/1558462042503348225?s=20&t=PFlBO1YefoBmpyIZrdHHyQ

There's a really *nasty* comparison in that tweet, and I'm unsurprised that it's passed you by.

I really only posted it for the Sadowitz screenshot, but I now note he is comparing the cancellation of Sadowitz to the stabbing of Rushdie. Which seems perfectly fair, albeit controversial, they are both arguably symptoms of the same problem - the new censorship, which comes from many sides (two of them being Wokeness, and Islamic intolerence of critique)

JosiasJessop said:

Leon said:

JosiasJessop said:

Leon said:

Jerry Sadowitz cancelled by the Edinburgh Fringe for being "offensive"

Jerry Sadowitz. Cancelled. On the FRINGE


Yes, that's really Fringe


https://twitter.com/LeoKearse/status/1558462042503348225?s=20&t=PFlBO1YefoBmpyIZrdHHyQ

There's a really *nasty* comparison in that tweet, and I'm unsurprised that it's passed you by.

I really only posted it for the Sadowitz screenshot, but I now note he is comparing the cancellation of Sadowitz to the stabbing of Rushdie. Which seems perfectly fair, albeit controversial, they are both arguably symptoms of the same problem - the new censorship, which comes from many sides (two of them being Wokeness, and Islamic intolerence of critique)

It is comparing one group of people with another who commit terrible violence, just after an act of violence by that group.

StuartDickson said:

kjh said:

I'm getting to the point where I wish the bloody aliens just turn up and introduce themselves as transgender aliens who started COVID, just to shut Leon up.

It’s be a nice touch if they wear kilts and play the pipes.

Omnium said:

kinabalu said:

MarqueeMark said:

Carnyx said:

rottenborough said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

StuartDickson said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

StuartDickson said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Stuart and co fear Starmer because he'd run a good Government which would blunt the need for independence.

Perhaps the SNP should propose some policies and we can look at them. Their record in Government is a dismal failure.

Propose policies? Ho ho. There speaks someone firmly locked in Opposition Mode. FYI the SNP have been in government for fifteen years, and have now won eleven elections in a row. Lots of policies implemented and approved at the ballot box.

Welsh Labour, the only one in power, is closer to the SNP than Scottish or English Labour. Anas Sarwar would recoil in horror at some of the things Mark Drakeford says and does. Drakeford is riding high in the polls. Sarwar isn’t.

SNP have done sod all, if they had done anything you'd be able to point out achievements

Says the PB Scotch expert. You Labourites are just as bad as your Tory buddies.

Queensferry Crossing

Child Payment Baby Box

Free bus travel for under 22s

Free period products

Dentistry charges scrapped

Music tuition fees scrapped

Best Performing NHS in the UK

Extended free personal care

Record high health funding

A dozen new Social Security benefits

Free school meals for P1-3s

Best performing A&E in the UK

Record high investment in education

Declared a climate emergency - 1st in world

Planting 22 million trees a year

Scottish National Investment Bank

Building more affordable homes

Small Business Bonus

Expanded MA scheme

Expanded EMAS

School Clothing Grant

Young Person's Guarantee

Investing more in life sciences

Free eye tests

Record support for college students

New progressive tax system

Carer's Allowance Supplement

Record low crime - lowest in over 40 years

Young Carer Grant

Violence Reduction Unit

Record investment in active travel

Best Start Grant

Aberdeen Bypass

Driving forward land reform

Lowering emissions

More investment in Climate Justice Fund

National Islands Plan

Community Empowerment Act

National Marine Plan

Helping deliver COP26

Outperforming UK on foreign investment

Continuing to outperform UK on productivity

Delivering Equally Safe Fund

First gender neutral cabinet in the UK

Keeping Scottish Water in public hands

Ferguson's shipyard jobs saved

BiFab saved

Prestwick Airport saved

Violent crime down

Weapon/knife crime significantly down

Handling the Covid crisis

What have the Romans done for us?

At least they weren't woke.

You sure? Even bloody tables were declared female. Edit: more precisely, 'feminine'. Though they had a neuter gender as well. Would be useful today.

I think their enthusiastic embracing of slavery probably rules the Romans out from being very woke.....

Well all the men wore skirts. Who can forget Richard Burton as Mark Anthony in that tight, thigh-skimming number. Cleopatra didn't get a look in.

Not even when he crossed his legs?

StuartDickson said:

ohnotnow said:

Carnyx said:

ohnotnow said:

Carnyx said:

Fairliered said:

StuartDickson said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Stuart and co fear Starmer because he'd run a good Government which would blunt the need for independence.

Perhaps the SNP should propose some policies and we can look at them. Their record in Government is a dismal failure.

Propose policies? Ho ho. There speaks someone firmly locked in Opposition Mode. FYI the SNP have been in government for fifteen years, and have now won eleven elections in a row. Lots of policies implemented and approved at the ballot box.

Welsh Labour, the only one in power, is closer to the SNP than Scottish or English Labour. Anas Sarwar would recoil in horror at some of the things Mark Drakeford says and does. Drakeford is riding high in the polls. Sarwar isn’t.

Do Scottish Labour have anyone of the quality of Mark Drakeford? No wonder Welsh Labour do well and Scottish Labour don’t.

They used to, at least at the top. But not since, I think, Donald Dewar and Wendy Alexander.

I had high hopes for Wendy Alexander. But she didn't really make much of a mark in the role. I don't know enough about internal SLab politics to know if she was being undermined/let-down by rival factions or was just 'not that good'.

That was a long time ago but from memory WA was widely regarded as being stabbed in the back by her friends*. Henry McLeish, her predecessor, was nominally forced out because of subletting his constituency office and forgetting to register it etc. This came out because the story emerged in a newspaper (can't recall which one). Howsoever that happened, as I recall Mr McLeish's leadership did not sit well with certain West Central Belt elements (he being from Fife).

*Edit: partly cos she wanted to take a pro-active approach and declare an indyref early, before the SNP had completely mobilised.

It still baffles me that SLab aren't even that big on Gordon Brown-esque 'Devo Max'. It seems like such an obvious policy play and yet...

Then again, many things about SLab baffle me.

Devo Max was, and is, a marketing ploy: all trappings no substance.

For the simple reason that it is impossible without English consent. Never gonna happen.

Ratters said:

Regarding Covid, I think it's great that we seem to have got back to the vast majority of people, media, politicians etc not giving it one moments thought. I'm going to an event today that 12 month's ago I needed a Covid pass for and everyone would be wearing masks on the journey over. No more. Despite the latest ONS survey saying 1 in 25 have Covid right now. It's just background noise like every other virus, and there's no new Covid variant that will put us back in lockdown or in masks en mass.

Of the Covid response, my main criticism is that we were too accepting of restrictions after the elderly and vulnerable were double vaccinated. The removal of all restrictions should have happened prior to summer 2021 and have never returned in any form.

But it's behind us now, which isn't the case in every country, so it could be worse.

Scott_xP said:

Yesterday I interviewed Chancellor of the Exchequer Nadhim Zahawi.

I challenged him over the decision to class HS2 as an England & Wales project, despite the fact none of HS2 is in Wales.

They ended the interview after I pressed him on it.

Let's look at what he said:

Thread
https://twitter.com/WillHayCardiff/status/1558445762870394880

Andy_Cooke said:

Death versus loss of freedoms is a false dichotomy.
Death takes all freedoms.
Locked in a casket is the ultimate lockdown.

A child losing a parent will have far worse mental health issues; these should not be glossed over. The majority of mental health issues were due to the disease, its effects, and fears for loved ones. And, yes, a not-inconsiderable amount due to lockdowns and restrictions. No-one's saying they were cost-free. Just that the cost of not doing them was greater than the cost of doing them.

Anyone who still tries to argue that Covid merely kills those on the verge of death after all this time can be either not arguing in good faith or so intent on their position that they push away all evidence.



It's not just about death and never has been: ten times as many are hospitalised, and the hospitalisation rate goes down slower than the straight fatality rate (it's why the IFR is higher in less developed countries even though the average age is far lower - those in middle-age and sometimes younger saved by hospital assistance here are not saved there).

The post-infection damage is a big issue. Even mild infections carry an elevated risk of heart and circulatory problems going forwards; those hospitalised have far greater risks. Not to mention the poorly understood and poorly defined Long Covid, which is a problem even if we don't fully understand it.

Ignoring it was not an option "to save the economy." People tend to notice when others are dropping down in the street and reduce activity all round. The worst economic impact comes along with the worst covid impact. Control covid and control the economic damage.

HYUFD said:

StuartDickson said:

ohnotnow said:

Carnyx said:

ohnotnow said:

Carnyx said:

Fairliered said:

StuartDickson said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Stuart and co fear Starmer because he'd run a good Government which would blunt the need for independence.

Perhaps the SNP should propose some policies and we can look at them. Their record in Government is a dismal failure.

Propose policies? Ho ho. There speaks someone firmly locked in Opposition Mode. FYI the SNP have been in government for fifteen years, and have now won eleven elections in a row. Lots of policies implemented and approved at the ballot box.

Welsh Labour, the only one in power, is closer to the SNP than Scottish or English Labour. Anas Sarwar would recoil in horror at some of the things Mark Drakeford says and does. Drakeford is riding high in the polls. Sarwar isn’t.

Do Scottish Labour have anyone of the quality of Mark Drakeford? No wonder Welsh Labour do well and Scottish Labour don’t.

They used to, at least at the top. But not since, I think, Donald Dewar and Wendy Alexander.

I had high hopes for Wendy Alexander. But she didn't really make much of a mark in the role. I don't know enough about internal SLab politics to know if she was being undermined/let-down by rival factions or was just 'not that good'.

That was a long time ago but from memory WA was widely regarded as being stabbed in the back by her friends*. Henry McLeish, her predecessor, was nominally forced out because of subletting his constituency office and forgetting to register it etc. This came out because the story emerged in a newspaper (can't recall which one). Howsoever that happened, as I recall Mr McLeish's leadership did not sit well with certain West Central Belt elements (he being from Fife).

*Edit: partly cos she wanted to take a pro-active approach and declare an indyref early, before the SNP had completely mobilised.

It still baffles me that SLab aren't even that big on Gordon Brown-esque 'Devo Max'. It seems like such an obvious policy play and yet...

Then again, many things about SLab baffle me.

Devo Max was, and is, a marketing ploy: all trappings no substance.

For the simple reason that it is impossible without English consent. Never gonna happen.

Devomax will almost certainly happen if Starmer becomes PM

Sandpit said:

Leon said:

rottenborough said:

@Leon

The Republican Accountability Project
@AccountableGOP
.

@KariLake wants to disband the FBI.


https://twitter.com/AccountableGOP/status/1558108473447120899

Is that good or bad?

It’s bad when Republicans want to defund the police, and good when Democrats want to defund the police.

Richard_Tyndall said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

EPG said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

bondegezou said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

turbotubbs said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Carnyx said:

Stuartinromford said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Scott_xP said:

RochdalePioneers said:

The problem isn't the Tory party, its the voters. People want contradictory things but refuse to accept there is a contradiction. A series of events have empowered them to believe their genuine ignorance on a subject holds the same weight as actual knowledge and experience. They aren't wrong, the experts are wrong.

There is a way through though - find us a new Blair or Thatcher, someone who does know what they are talking about and has political umph. People said "that is Boris" but as all but the remaining holdouts now accept Boris stood for nothing, with no great policies delivered and settled in his time.

Ummm, BoZo was the politician more than any other in my lifetime that told voters they could have contradictory things. Denied the contradictions. That experts were to be derided.

He was the problem

The fact his opponents failed to make their case shows how poor they were

Not entirely.

If you are in a debate with someone shameless and dishonest enough, it can be really hard to persuade an audience.

It tends to go this;

BORIS-ALIKE Something involving cake and eat it

RORY-ALIKE (because he at least tried) That's not possible- once you have eaten your cake, it's gone...

BORIS-ALIKE There you go, with your doomy gloomy negativity. Remember we are Great Britain! We are being held back by your fears... (Continues ad nauseum.)

Boris style cakeism is a really attractive prospectus. It's awfully hard to argue against, because deep down we want it to be true, and want to believe that there's some meanie stopping it being true for us. That's been the case since the apple/snake/Eve fiasco in Genesis.

It would have been better for the UK had someone successfully argued us out of Borisism, but I'm not convinced that was possible.

It would have been better for the Conservatives and the UK to have not fallen for Borisism, but that required human nature to be something it isn't.

The culpability for (gestures round) all of this belongs with the clique who proposed it, who lied to the public about it, who smeared and deposed those who questioned it.

Not particularly with those who fell for it, and certainly not with those who did their best to argue against it.

Unless you had a better plan to argue against Boris, in which case I'm all ears.

And unless he didn't vote for the Conservatives when Mr Johnson was their leader.

I want to make this clear

I supported Johnson on brexit, covid and Ukraine but he lost me from Paterson onwards

Starmer would have had our economy in lockdown forever if he could, and it is to Johnson's credit he opened the economy when he did

That's a very silly thing to write. Starmer wanted us "in lockdown forever"?

Profoundly stupid read of the situation that isn't worthy of yours usual sage analysis.

Forever is a stretch, but Starmer was ALWAYS on the side of more and longer restrictions.

I accept forever was one of my rather exaggerated comments but there is no doubt Starmer favoured a much stricter and longer lockdown and it was Johnson who made the correct decision and it has been proven as the right thing to do

It is rather hot and I apologise for my exaggeration

Boris caused longer lockdowns by always being slow to initiate a lockdown. Had we acted promptly, we would have better controlled infection rates and could’ve come out of lockdown sooner. It’s yet more short term thinking.

Oh what nonsense. Claimed by people who want to justify lockdowns. Taking away civil liberties as a precautionary measure is unacceptable and the virus would still be prevalent on our continent after any lockdown it wasn't a magic pill that would get rid of it.

What country in Europe successfully had a short, sharp lockdown that was rapidly ended and not repeated?

I can in hindsight point at a country and say we should have done that, Sweden. Can you name any country that had a rapid premature lockdown that worked, fixed things and meant coming out of lockdown sooner?

Following the Swedish model would have been utterly catastrophic. Look at their death rates compared to their immediate neighbours. Thousands of additional people died in Sweden who did not need to because of the route they chose. And that is in spite of the fact that far more people in Sweden work from home anyway so the effects of a lockdown would have been considerably less on their economy.

Many - if not all - European countries got their policies wrong in the pandemic in one way or another. Sweden is certainly no exception.

The thousands of lives saved are people in institutions. If anything like the rest of Europe, these are places where most people have dementia and nobody is coming out alive. To sacrifice everyone's wellbeing for two years is an excessive price to pay for nursing home safety.

A completely false statement. Most of those who died were not people living in nursing homes. Of course if you are advocating just killing off older people to save money then you are welcome to make that claim but you will be treated with the contempt you deserve.

Not simply to save money. And nobody is proposing euthanasia, anyone who dies from a virus is dying from natural causes.

The NHS has never had a blank cheque and nor should it, as even others agree already.

If the cost of keeping one elderly and vulnerable person from having a death from entirely natural causes is ten million pounds and taking a thousand children out of education for six months then is it worthy of "contempt" to question whether that is an acceptable price?

Just stick your granny outside in the snow. If she dies of the cold then it is because of natural causes.

Twat.

Leon said:

Sandpit said:

Leon said:

rottenborough said:

@Leon

The Republican Accountability Project
@AccountableGOP
.

@KariLake wants to disband the FBI.


https://twitter.com/AccountableGOP/status/1558108473447120899

Is that good or bad?

It’s bad when Republicans want to defund the police, and good when Democrats want to defund the police.

Yes, I'm quite confused

Leon said:

kinabalu said:

MarqueeMark said:

Carnyx said:

rottenborough said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

StuartDickson said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

StuartDickson said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Stuart and co fear Starmer because he'd run a good Government which would blunt the need for independence.

Perhaps the SNP should propose some policies and we can look at them. Their record in Government is a dismal failure.

Propose policies? Ho ho. There speaks someone firmly locked in Opposition Mode. FYI the SNP have been in government for fifteen years, and have now won eleven elections in a row. Lots of policies implemented and approved at the ballot box.

Welsh Labour, the only one in power, is closer to the SNP than Scottish or English Labour. Anas Sarwar would recoil in horror at some of the things Mark Drakeford says and does. Drakeford is riding high in the polls. Sarwar isn’t.

SNP have done sod all, if they had done anything you'd be able to point out achievements

Says the PB Scotch expert. You Labourites are just as bad as your Tory buddies.

Queensferry Crossing

Child Payment Baby Box

Free bus travel for under 22s

Free period products

Dentistry charges scrapped

Music tuition fees scrapped

Best Performing NHS in the UK

Extended free personal care

Record high health funding

A dozen new Social Security benefits

Free school meals for P1-3s

Best performing A&E in the UK

Record high investment in education

Declared a climate emergency - 1st in world

Planting 22 million trees a year

Scottish National Investment Bank

Building more affordable homes

Small Business Bonus

Expanded MA scheme

Expanded EMAS

School Clothing Grant

Young Person's Guarantee

Investing more in life sciences

Free eye tests

Record support for college students

New progressive tax system

Carer's Allowance Supplement

Record low crime - lowest in over 40 years

Young Carer Grant

Violence Reduction Unit

Record investment in active travel

Best Start Grant

Aberdeen Bypass

Driving forward land reform

Lowering emissions

More investment in Climate Justice Fund

National Islands Plan

Community Empowerment Act

National Marine Plan

Helping deliver COP26

Outperforming UK on foreign investment

Continuing to outperform UK on productivity

Delivering Equally Safe Fund

First gender neutral cabinet in the UK

Keeping Scottish Water in public hands

Ferguson's shipyard jobs saved

BiFab saved

Prestwick Airport saved

Violent crime down

Weapon/knife crime significantly down

Handling the Covid crisis

What have the Romans done for us?

At least they weren't woke.

You sure? Even bloody tables were declared female. Edit: more precisely, 'feminine'. Though they had a neuter gender as well. Would be useful today.

I think their enthusiastic embracing of slavery probably rules the Romans out from being very woke.....

Well all the men wore skirts. Who can forget Richard Burton as Mark Anthony in that tight, thigh-skimming number. Cleopatra didn't get a look in.

You are quite gay, aren't you?

rottenborough said:

Prediction: When Trump wins he will attempt to disband the FBI as punishment. Just like his cult followers like Lake want.

Nothing can interfere with their hero's status as the new god and king of america.

EPG said:

Andy_Cooke said:

Death versus loss of freedoms is a false dichotomy.
Death takes all freedoms.
Locked in a casket is the ultimate lockdown.

A child losing a parent will have far worse mental health issues; these should not be glossed over. The majority of mental health issues were due to the disease, its effects, and fears for loved ones. And, yes, a not-inconsiderable amount due to lockdowns and restrictions. No-one's saying they were cost-free. Just that the cost of not doing them was greater than the cost of doing them.

Anyone who still tries to argue that Covid merely kills those on the verge of death after all this time can be either not arguing in good faith or so intent on their position that they push away all evidence.



It's not just about death and never has been: ten times as many are hospitalised, and the hospitalisation rate goes down slower than the straight fatality rate (it's why the IFR is higher in less developed countries even though the average age is far lower - those in middle-age and sometimes younger saved by hospital assistance here are not saved there).

The post-infection damage is a big issue. Even mild infections carry an elevated risk of heart and circulatory problems going forwards; those hospitalised have far greater risks. Not to mention the poorly understood and poorly defined Long Covid, which is a problem even if we don't fully understand it.

Ignoring it was not an option "to save the economy." People tend to notice when others are dropping down in the street and reduce activity all round. The worst economic impact comes along with the worst covid impact. Control covid and control the economic damage.

Lockdown was basically costless for fearful extremely-online people. It wasn't a zombie apocalypse. Serious disease mainly afflicted already-unwell people.

Sandpit said:

Foxy said:

ydoethur said:

LostPassword said:

The Kyiv Independent
@KyivIndependent
⚡️Governor: Russian army command leaves Kherson.

According to Mykolaiv Oblast Governor Vitaliy Kim, the Russian army command has been moving to the left bank of the Dnipro River.
4:39 PM · Aug 13, 2022

https://mobile.twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1558478313701707778

LOL

The Ukrainians have found a Russian general and not blown him up?

I dunno, standards are just dropping everywhere.

They have however wrecked the last vehicle bridge, at least for present. Looks a bit tricky West of the Dnieper for the Russians. They will be swimming home soon.

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1558298834782003200?t=kkL2HVqczIEIVkIVj4HV3g&s=19

Imagine being on the enemy’s bridge rebuilding team. As soon as it looks like they might have one serviceable route over the river to Kherson, another HIMARS empties half a dozen rockets back onto the bridge!

If the general has left the city, the rest of the troops won’t know what to do with themselves, will use up all their ammo and - if they want to live - walk out with their hands up.

dixiedean said:

Man United. That's all.

Andy_Cooke said:

Death versus loss of freedoms is a false dichotomy.
Death takes all freedoms.
Locked in a casket is the ultimate lockdown.

A child losing a parent will have far worse mental health issues; these should not be glossed over. The majority of mental health issues were due to the disease, its effects, and fears for loved ones. And, yes, a not-inconsiderable amount due to lockdowns and restrictions. No-one's saying they were cost-free. Just that the cost of not doing them was greater than the cost of doing them.

Anyone who still tries to argue that Covid merely kills those on the verge of death after all this time can be either not arguing in good faith or so intent on their position that they push away all evidence.



It's not just about death and never has been: ten times as many are hospitalised, and the hospitalisation rate goes down slower than the straight fatality rate (it's why the IFR is higher in less developed countries even though the average age is far lower - those in middle-age and sometimes younger saved by hospital assistance here are not saved there).

The post-infection damage is a big issue. Even mild infections carry an elevated risk of heart and circulatory problems going forwards; those hospitalised have far greater risks. Not to mention the poorly understood and poorly defined Long Covid, which is a problem even if we don't fully understand it.

Ignoring it was not an option "to save the economy." People tend to notice when others are dropping down in the street and reduce activity all round. The worst economic impact comes along with the worst covid impact. Control covid and control the economic damage.

Leon said:

JosiasJessop said:

Leon said:

JosiasJessop said:

Leon said:

Jerry Sadowitz cancelled by the Edinburgh Fringe for being "offensive"

Jerry Sadowitz. Cancelled. On the FRINGE


Yes, that's really Fringe


https://twitter.com/LeoKearse/status/1558462042503348225?s=20&t=PFlBO1YefoBmpyIZrdHHyQ

There's a really *nasty* comparison in that tweet, and I'm unsurprised that it's passed you by.

I really only posted it for the Sadowitz screenshot, but I now note he is comparing the cancellation of Sadowitz to the stabbing of Rushdie. Which seems perfectly fair, albeit controversial, they are both arguably symptoms of the same problem - the new censorship, which comes from many sides (two of them being Wokeness, and Islamic intolerence of critique)

It is comparing one group of people with another who commit terrible violence, just after an act of violence by that group.

He is making a philosophical point which to me is interesting and has some merit. But off you go and do the snowflake thing. You're the kind of twat who would complain about being offended at a Jerry Sadowitz gig

Leon said:

Speaking of poor Rushdie, Keir Starmer has only just now come out and said anything about the stabbing. Took him a whole day

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

rottenborough said:

Prediction: When Trump wins he will attempt to disband the FBI as punishment. Just like his cult followers like Lake want.

Nothing can interfere with their hero's status as the new god and king of america.

My guess is that Leon's newest heart throb, Kari Lake, is NOT a true Trump cult follower, but rather another opportunist hoping to ride to power by publicly sucking up to the Sage > Suspect of Mar-a-Lardo.

For example, like Vance in Ohio and Oz in West New Jersey.

dixiedean said:

Leon said:

Speaking of poor Rushdie, Keir Starmer has only just now come out and said anything about the stabbing. Took him a whole day

I'm not sure that will be foremost of Mr Rushdie's concerns.

Andy_Cooke said:

Death versus loss of freedoms is a false dichotomy.
Death takes all freedoms.
Locked in a casket is the ultimate lockdown.

A child losing a parent will have far worse mental health issues; these should not be glossed over. The majority of mental health issues were due to the disease, its effects, and fears for loved ones. And, yes, a not-inconsiderable amount due to lockdowns and restrictions. No-one's saying they were cost-free. Just that the cost of not doing them was greater than the cost of doing them.

Anyone who still tries to argue that Covid merely kills those on the verge of death after all this time can be either not arguing in good faith or so intent on their position that they push away all evidence.



It's not just about death and never has been: ten times as many are hospitalised, and the hospitalisation rate goes down slower than the straight fatality rate (it's why the IFR is higher in less developed countries even though the average age is far lower - those in middle-age and sometimes younger saved by hospital assistance here are not saved there).

The post-infection damage is a big issue. Even mild infections carry an elevated risk of heart and circulatory problems going forwards; those hospitalised have far greater risks. Not to mention the poorly understood and poorly defined Long Covid, which is a problem even if we don't fully understand it.

Ignoring it was not an option "to save the economy." People tend to notice when others are dropping down in the street and reduce activity all round. The worst economic impact comes along with the worst covid impact. Control covid and control the economic damage.

Leon said:

dixiedean said:

Leon said:

Speaking of poor Rushdie, Keir Starmer has only just now come out and said anything about the stabbing. Took him a whole day

I'm not sure that will be foremost of Mr Rushdie's concerns.

Starmer is cackhanded at this stuff. If you are going to express regrets and concern, do it quick, make it sincere. Why on earth wait a whole day, rubbing everyone the wrong way?

I had a picnic with some friends last night (and blissful it was). One of them is an old lefty - not extreme, quite centrist - but his withering contempt for Starmer was a spectacle. Starmer irritates people quite deeply

EPG said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

EPG said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

bondegezou said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

turbotubbs said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Carnyx said:

Stuartinromford said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Scott_xP said:

RochdalePioneers said:

The problem isn't the Tory party, its the voters. People want contradictory things but refuse to accept there is a contradiction. A series of events have empowered them to believe their genuine ignorance on a subject holds the same weight as actual knowledge and experience. They aren't wrong, the experts are wrong.

There is a way through though - find us a new Blair or Thatcher, someone who does know what they are talking about and has political umph. People said "that is Boris" but as all but the remaining holdouts now accept Boris stood for nothing, with no great policies delivered and settled in his time.

Ummm, BoZo was the politician more than any other in my lifetime that told voters they could have contradictory things. Denied the contradictions. That experts were to be derided.

He was the problem

The fact his opponents failed to make their case shows how poor they were

Not entirely.

If you are in a debate with someone shameless and dishonest enough, it can be really hard to persuade an audience.

It tends to go this;

BORIS-ALIKE Something involving cake and eat it

RORY-ALIKE (because he at least tried) That's not possible- once you have eaten your cake, it's gone...

BORIS-ALIKE There you go, with your doomy gloomy negativity. Remember we are Great Britain! We are being held back by your fears... (Continues ad nauseum.)

Boris style cakeism is a really attractive prospectus. It's awfully hard to argue against, because deep down we want it to be true, and want to believe that there's some meanie stopping it being true for us. That's been the case since the apple/snake/Eve fiasco in Genesis.

It would have been better for the UK had someone successfully argued us out of Borisism, but I'm not convinced that was possible.

It would have been better for the Conservatives and the UK to have not fallen for Borisism, but that required human nature to be something it isn't.

The culpability for (gestures round) all of this belongs with the clique who proposed it, who lied to the public about it, who smeared and deposed those who questioned it.

Not particularly with those who fell for it, and certainly not with those who did their best to argue against it.

Unless you had a better plan to argue against Boris, in which case I'm all ears.

And unless he didn't vote for the Conservatives when Mr Johnson was their leader.

I want to make this clear

I supported Johnson on brexit, covid and Ukraine but he lost me from Paterson onwards

Starmer would have had our economy in lockdown forever if he could, and it is to Johnson's credit he opened the economy when he did

That's a very silly thing to write. Starmer wanted us "in lockdown forever"?

Profoundly stupid read of the situation that isn't worthy of yours usual sage analysis.

Forever is a stretch, but Starmer was ALWAYS on the side of more and longer restrictions.

I accept forever was one of my rather exaggerated comments but there is no doubt Starmer favoured a much stricter and longer lockdown and it was Johnson who made the correct decision and it has been proven as the right thing to do

It is rather hot and I apologise for my exaggeration

Boris caused longer lockdowns by always being slow to initiate a lockdown. Had we acted promptly, we would have better controlled infection rates and could’ve come out of lockdown sooner. It’s yet more short term thinking.

Oh what nonsense. Claimed by people who want to justify lockdowns. Taking away civil liberties as a precautionary measure is unacceptable and the virus would still be prevalent on our continent after any lockdown it wasn't a magic pill that would get rid of it.

What country in Europe successfully had a short, sharp lockdown that was rapidly ended and not repeated?

I can in hindsight point at a country and say we should have done that, Sweden. Can you name any country that had a rapid premature lockdown that worked, fixed things and meant coming out of lockdown sooner?

Following the Swedish model would have been utterly catastrophic. Look at their death rates compared to their immediate neighbours. Thousands of additional people died in Sweden who did not need to because of the route they chose. And that is in spite of the fact that far more people in Sweden work from home anyway so the effects of a lockdown would have been considerably less on their economy.

Many - if not all - European countries got their policies wrong in the pandemic in one way or another. Sweden is certainly no exception.

The thousands of lives saved are people in institutions. If anything like the rest of Europe, these are places where most people have dementia and nobody is coming out alive. To sacrifice everyone's wellbeing for two years is an excessive price to pay for nursing home safety.

A completely false statement. Most of those who died were not people living in nursing homes. Of course if you are advocating just killing off older people to save money then you are welcome to make that claim but you will be treated with the contempt you deserve.

Not simply to save money. And nobody is proposing euthanasia, anyone who dies from a virus is dying from natural causes.

The NHS has never had a blank cheque and nor should it, as even others agree already.

If the cost of keeping one elderly and vulnerable person from having a death from entirely natural causes is ten million pounds and taking a thousand children out of education for six months then is it worthy of "contempt" to question whether that is an acceptable price?

Just stick your granny outside in the snow. If she dies of the cold then it is because of natural causes.

Twat.

Everyone's going to die. You won't live forever by shutting down public life forever. So yes, everything is about choices as to who should suffer to extend whose life, and the wellbeing we win or lose for everyone as a result.

ohnotnow said:

Carnyx said:

ohnotnow said:

Carnyx said:

Fairliered said:

StuartDickson said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Stuart and co fear Starmer because he'd run a good Government which would blunt the need for independence.

Perhaps the SNP should propose some policies and we can look at them. Their record in Government is a dismal failure.

Propose policies? Ho ho. There speaks someone firmly locked in Opposition Mode. FYI the SNP have been in government for fifteen years, and have now won eleven elections in a row. Lots of policies implemented and approved at the ballot box.

Welsh Labour, the only one in power, is closer to the SNP than Scottish or English Labour. Anas Sarwar would recoil in horror at some of the things Mark Drakeford says and does. Drakeford is riding high in the polls. Sarwar isn’t.

Do Scottish Labour have anyone of the quality of Mark Drakeford? No wonder Welsh Labour do well and Scottish Labour don’t.

They used to, at least at the top. But not since, I think, Donald Dewar and Wendy Alexander.

I had high hopes for Wendy Alexander. But she didn't really make much of a mark in the role. I don't know enough about internal SLab politics to know if she was being undermined/let-down by rival factions or was just 'not that good'.

That was a long time ago but from memory WA was widely regarded as being stabbed in the back by her friends*. Henry McLeish, her predecessor, was nominally forced out because of subletting his constituency office and forgetting to register it etc. This came out because the story emerged in a newspaper (can't recall which one). Howsoever that happened, as I recall Mr McLeish's leadership did not sit well with certain West Central Belt elements (he being from Fife).

*Edit: partly cos she wanted to take a pro-active approach and declare an indyref early, before the SNP had completely mobilised.

It still baffles me that SLab aren't even that big on Gordon Brown-esque 'Devo Max'. It seems like such an obvious policy play and yet...

Then again, many things about SLab baffle me.

Tres said:

ohnotnow said:

Carnyx said:

ohnotnow said:

Carnyx said:

Fairliered said:

StuartDickson said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Stuart and co fear Starmer because he'd run a good Government which would blunt the need for independence.

Perhaps the SNP should propose some policies and we can look at them. Their record in Government is a dismal failure.

Propose policies? Ho ho. There speaks someone firmly locked in Opposition Mode. FYI the SNP have been in government for fifteen years, and have now won eleven elections in a row. Lots of policies implemented and approved at the ballot box.

Welsh Labour, the only one in power, is closer to the SNP than Scottish or English Labour. Anas Sarwar would recoil in horror at some of the things Mark Drakeford says and does. Drakeford is riding high in the polls. Sarwar isn’t.

Do Scottish Labour have anyone of the quality of Mark Drakeford? No wonder Welsh Labour do well and Scottish Labour don’t.

They used to, at least at the top. But not since, I think, Donald Dewar and Wendy Alexander.

I had high hopes for Wendy Alexander. But she didn't really make much of a mark in the role. I don't know enough about internal SLab politics to know if she was being undermined/let-down by rival factions or was just 'not that good'.

That was a long time ago but from memory WA was widely regarded as being stabbed in the back by her friends*. Henry McLeish, her predecessor, was nominally forced out because of subletting his constituency office and forgetting to register it etc. This came out because the story emerged in a newspaper (can't recall which one). Howsoever that happened, as I recall Mr McLeish's leadership did not sit well with certain West Central Belt elements (he being from Fife).

*Edit: partly cos she wanted to take a pro-active approach and declare an indyref early, before the SNP had completely mobilised.

It still baffles me that SLab aren't even that big on Gordon Brown-esque 'Devo Max'. It seems like such an obvious policy play and yet...

Then again, many things about SLab baffle me.

15 years of PB and I can't recall a single SLab poster.

kinabalu said:

Leon said:

JosiasJessop said:

Leon said:

JosiasJessop said:

Leon said:

Jerry Sadowitz cancelled by the Edinburgh Fringe for being "offensive"

Jerry Sadowitz. Cancelled. On the FRINGE


Yes, that's really Fringe


https://twitter.com/LeoKearse/status/1558462042503348225?s=20&t=PFlBO1YefoBmpyIZrdHHyQ

There's a really *nasty* comparison in that tweet, and I'm unsurprised that it's passed you by.

I really only posted it for the Sadowitz screenshot, but I now note he is comparing the cancellation of Sadowitz to the stabbing of Rushdie. Which seems perfectly fair, albeit controversial, they are both arguably symptoms of the same problem - the new censorship, which comes from many sides (two of them being Wokeness, and Islamic intolerence of critique)

It is comparing one group of people with another who commit terrible violence, just after an act of violence by that group.

He is making a philosophical point which to me is interesting and has some merit. But off you go and do the snowflake thing. You're the kind of twat who would complain about being offended at a Jerry Sadowitz gig

A "philosophical point"? ... lol

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

dixiedean said:

Leon said:

Speaking of poor Rushdie, Keir Starmer has only just now come out and said anything about the stabbing. Took him a whole day

I'm not sure that will be foremost of Mr Rushdie's concerns.

Starmer is cackhanded at this stuff. If you are going to express regrets and concern, do it quick, make it sincere. Why on earth wait a whole day, rubbing everyone the wrong way?

I had a picnic with some friends last night (and blissful it was). One of them is an old lefty - not extreme, quite centrist - but his withering contempt for Starmer was a spectacle. Starmer irritates people quite deeply

He doesn't irritate me and I am a mostly life long Tory. I think he irritates a few people on the extremes because he is boringly electable, unlike Corbyn, so therefore they have to slag him off by saying he is boring. Your idol, Mr Johnson was definitely not boring but was a fucking disaster and the worst PM in the history of the UK. I would quite like a boring PM, but preferably not a labour one, though that looks very likely thanks to your mate "Boris".

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

dixiedean said:

Leon said:

Speaking of poor Rushdie, Keir Starmer has only just now come out and said anything about the stabbing. Took him a whole day

I'm not sure that will be foremost of Mr Rushdie's concerns.

Starmer is cackhanded at this stuff. If you are going to express regrets and concern, do it quick, make it sincere. Why on earth wait a whole day, rubbing everyone the wrong way?

I had a picnic with some friends last night (and blissful it was). One of them is an old lefty - not extreme, quite centrist - but his withering contempt for Starmer was a spectacle. Starmer irritates people quite deeply

He doesn't irritate me and I am a mostly life long Tory. I think he irritates a few people on the extremes because he is boringly electable, unlike Corbyn, so therefore they have to slag him off by saying he is boring. Your idol, Mr Johnson was definitely not boring but was a fucking disaster and the worst PM in the history of the UK. I would quite like a boring PM, but preferably not a labour one, though that looks very likely thanks to your mate "Boris".

JosiasJessop said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

dixiedean said:

Leon said:

Speaking of poor Rushdie, Keir Starmer has only just now come out and said anything about the stabbing. Took him a whole day

I'm not sure that will be foremost of Mr Rushdie's concerns.

Starmer is cackhanded at this stuff. If you are going to express regrets and concern, do it quick, make it sincere. Why on earth wait a whole day, rubbing everyone the wrong way?

I had a picnic with some friends last night (and blissful it was). One of them is an old lefty - not extreme, quite centrist - but his withering contempt for Starmer was a spectacle. Starmer irritates people quite deeply

He doesn't irritate me and I am a mostly life long Tory. I think he irritates a few people on the extremes because he is boringly electable, unlike Corbyn, so therefore they have to slag him off by saying he is boring. Your idol, Mr Johnson was definitely not boring but was a fucking disaster and the worst PM in the history of the UK. I would quite like a boring PM, but preferably not a labour one, though that looks very likely thanks to your mate "Boris".

One of the most competent managers I ever knew was utterly boring and beige. But immensely competent. One of the worst managers I ever knew was the exact opposite.

Although a touch of the showbiz is necessary in politics, a bit of salesmanship. Especially if you want to lead public opinion, rather than follow it.

TheScreamingEagles said:

dixiedean said:

Liverpool at OT next up...

United to win, I've got a ticket for the match.

Then again I was there last season.

Leon said:

dixiedean said:

Leon said:

Speaking of poor Rushdie, Keir Starmer has only just now come out and said anything about the stabbing. Took him a whole day

I'm not sure that will be foremost of Mr Rushdie's concerns.

Starmer is cackhanded at this stuff. If you are going to express regrets and concern, do it quick, make it sincere. Why on earth wait a whole day, rubbing everyone the wrong way?

I had a picnic with some friends last night (and blissful it was). One of them is an old lefty - not extreme, quite centrist - but his withering contempt for Starmer was a spectacle. Starmer irritates people quite deeply