Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Truss beating Starmer as “Better PM” – politicalbetting.com

24

Comments

  • Back to SKS is crap then.

    So who would do better with polling evidence please

    So, you’re delighted with Scottish Labour being on 16% and 3rd place?

    Baxter gives (new boundaries):

    SNP 55 seats (+7)
    Con 1 seat (-5)
    Lab 1 seat (nc)
    LD 0 seats (-2)

    = Starmer is a dud

    Always knew you were a Tory, Stuart!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,591
    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I was looking at the 538 Senate Predictions for 2020, to see how they did.

    And they called all but three Senate races right. The three they got wrong were:

    (1) Maine, where they thought Ms Collins was a goner, and she wasn't.
    (2) North Carolina, which they thought was a Dem gain
    (3) Georgia, where they thought Perdue would beat out Ossoff

    So, a *slight* overestimation of Dems chances, but not a massive one.

    I'm still astonished by Collins. She didn't lead in a poll after June yet went onto win by 9 points.
    You can fool a lot of the people a lot of the time.
    And six years is a long time. Who knows, folk might even have forgotten her SC confirmation votes by next time.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,851
    edited August 2022

    Back to SKS is crap then.

    So who would do better with polling evidence please

    Its not that he is crap, its that he seems uninspiring. The swings at by elections have been tepid, wakefield wasnt impressive given the circumstances, nothing like the LD swings. Similarly in local by elections its all very tepid from a labour perspective, theres no 'oomph' behind him. People are reluctant to conclude Labour are ready for government.
    They are getting there, yes, but its torturous progress.
    The electorate want someone/something to believe in. I don't get the sense many can be arsed to believe in SKS,
  • HYUFD said:
    Oh, hello.

    I should be careful, having pulled someone else's tail for getting over-excited about one data point earlier today. But.

    If Starmer is competitive with Truss before she has had to annoy anyone by taking a real decision... that matters.

    "Vote Starmer.. he'll do" remains the slogan for 2024.
    Excuse me?

    image
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,780
    Nigelb said:

    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I was looking at the 538 Senate Predictions for 2020, to see how they did.

    And they called all but three Senate races right. The three they got wrong were:

    (1) Maine, where they thought Ms Collins was a goner, and she wasn't.
    (2) North Carolina, which they thought was a Dem gain
    (3) Georgia, where they thought Perdue would beat out Ossoff

    So, a *slight* overestimation of Dems chances, but not a massive one.

    I'm still astonished by Collins. She didn't lead in a poll after June yet went onto win by 9 points.
    You can fool a lot of the people a lot of the time.
    And six years is a long time. Who knows, folk might even have forgotten her SC confirmation votes by next time.
    I don't think she'll stand again.

    But I could be wrong.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,591
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I was looking at the 538 Senate Predictions for 2020, to see how they did.

    And they called all but three Senate races right. The three they got wrong were:

    (1) Maine, where they thought Ms Collins was a goner, and she wasn't.
    (2) North Carolina, which they thought was a Dem gain
    (3) Georgia, where they thought Perdue would beat out Ossoff

    So, a *slight* overestimation of Dems chances, but not a massive one.

    I'm still astonished by Collins. She didn't lead in a poll after June yet went onto win by 9 points.
    You can fool a lot of the people a lot of the time.
    And six years is a long time. Who knows, folk might even have forgotten her SC confirmation votes by next time.
    I don't think she'll stand again.

    But I could be wrong.
    If you’re going by anything she’s said, that’s quite likely.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,522

    Back to SKS is crap then.

    So who would do better with polling evidence please

    Its not that he is crap, its that he seems uninspiring. The swings at by elections have been tepid, wakefield wasnt impressive given the circumstances, nothing like the LD swings. Similarly in local by elections its all very tepid from a labour perspective, theres no 'oomph' behind him. People are reluctant to conclude Labour are ready for government.
    They are getting there, yes, but its torturous progress.
    The electorate want someone/something to believe in. I don't get the sense many can be arsed to believe in SKS,
    There's no reason to believe in him, and won't be for as long as he's maintaining his current strategy.
  • Commonwealth closing ceremony on BBC1 right now!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,100
    MattW said:

    Omnium said:

    MattW said:

    Omnium said:

    MattW said:

    FPT:

    HYUFD said:



    To an extent it still is, 90% of EU Eurozone nations are Roman Catholic in terms of their largest religious group, the UK is Protestant plurality. Most of the Protestant Lutheran plurality nations are in Scandinavia now and not in the Eurozone or in EFTA but not the EU.

    I don't think that holds any more. It's more like just over half.

    Just for interest - 19 countries in the current Eurozone (ignoring all the ones that are mandated to join it that have spent the last 5-25 years desperately avoiding having to do so). Interesting trends.

    Using your plurality of community identification criteria, rather than formal membership or attendance, and leaving out the religion of atheism, we have 19 Eurozone countries:

    Belgium, Germany, Ireland, Spain, France, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Austria, Portugal, Finland, Greece, Slovenia, Cyprus, Malta, Slovakia, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania.

    Of those, clearly not Roman Catholic: Estonia, Finland, Denmark, Greece, Cyprus

    Clearly RC: Ireland, Italy, Spain, Belgium, Austria, Portugal, Slovakia, Luxembourg, Malta, Lithuania

    Too tightly balanced to call: Netherlands, Germany, Latvia

    Law unto itself - National theology of Not being RC: France

    One source, and using various other refs:
    https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/12/19/5-facts-about-catholics-in-europe
    I'm astonished that you have the Netherlands where you do. Their national identity has an element of not being RC.
    For the Netherlands it seems to be that people identify as RC: 20%, Protestant 15%.

    Those seem to me to be close, and also both low enough to struggle to apply to characterise the whole country. 20% is technically a plurality, but a very small one.
    What would you guess for the "not well disposed" vote to various religions? I'd be amazed if RC wasn't seen poorly for the majority.
    Interesting Q, and I am not really knowledgeable enough to comment for the Netherlands in detail, though I note quite a few parallels in the religious landscape with the UK.

    Similarly with the emphasis on freedom of conscience being largely a child of Nonconformist Protestantism.

    Interesting study here. It points up the Netherlands as being more like the UK than like France - in that rather than a "rub out religion" intolerant tradition, there is a tension between that and a more inclusive tradition.

    https://classic.iclrs.org/content/blurb/files/Netherlands.pdf
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,287
    FPT

    Andy_JS said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    Did the Epping Ongar to North Weald train last month, certainly an enjoyable route

    Indeed and it's a very well-run successful line starting from the old Routemaster bus at Epping right through to the bookshop at Ongar.

    I was led to believe the line's owners want to extend right down into Epping, link with the end of the Central Line and provide a rush hour service for commuters going beyond Epping (basically reviving the old link closed in the mid 70s).

    I realise there are many agencies involved but I'm sure you would agree this is something both the Town Council and the District Council could get behind and support.
    Closed in the 1990s (1994, I think?). It was certainly operating when I lived in South Woodford in 1991/2, and I still kind-of regret not having done it in LU service.
    30th September 1994. I started commuting on the Central Line and District Line to Imperial College just three days later, so a missed opportunity!
    Same day the Aldwych spur of the Piccadilly Line closed.
    Am I the only person who's been 'subjected' to a military experience at Aldwych tube?

    (And I'm not being a Walt in saying this.)
    Not sure what you're talking about. Would be interested to know.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,851
    Driver said:

    Back to SKS is crap then.

    So who would do better with polling evidence please

    Its not that he is crap, its that he seems uninspiring. The swings at by elections have been tepid, wakefield wasnt impressive given the circumstances, nothing like the LD swings. Similarly in local by elections its all very tepid from a labour perspective, theres no 'oomph' behind him. People are reluctant to conclude Labour are ready for government.
    They are getting there, yes, but its torturous progress.
    The electorate want someone/something to believe in. I don't get the sense many can be arsed to believe in SKS,
    There's no reason to believe in him, and won't be for as long as he's maintaining his current strategy.
    There is nothing exciting or inspiring in UK politics rn. Its one long exhale and headshake
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719

    Back to SKS is crap then.

    So who would do better with polling evidence please

    Its not that he is crap, its that he seems uninspiring. The swings at by elections have been tepid, wakefield wasnt impressive given the circumstances, nothing like the LD swings. Similarly in local by elections its all very tepid from a labour perspective, theres no 'oomph' behind him. People are reluctant to conclude Labour are ready for government.
    They are getting there, yes, but its torturous progress.
    The electorate want someone/something to believe in. I don't get the sense many can be arsed to believe in SKS,
    If Starmer gets in it will be the same reason Biden, Hollande, Albanese and Scholz got in, a rejection of the incumbent, not huge enthusiasm for them
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,591
    Detailed thread on the Democrat’s bill.

    https://twitter.com/monsieurmoscato/status/1556380832415334402
    I read through 700+ pages of the July version of the Inflation Reduction Act so that you don't have to. Long thread

    The 1% tax on company share buybacks is an interesting wrinkle, which should raise significant revenue.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Back to SKS is crap then.

    So who would do better with polling evidence please

    So, you’re delighted with Scottish Labour being on 16% and 3rd place?

    Baxter gives (new boundaries):

    SNP 55 seats (+7)
    Con 1 seat (-5)
    Lab 1 seat (nc)
    LD 0 seats (-2)

    = Starmer is a dud

    Always knew you were a Tory, Stuart!
    Well, I kind of am. I self-define as centre-right and have served as a councillor for the Moderates, the principal centre-right party of Sweden. I respect an awful lot (but not all) of the rich Tory heritage in Scotland. The College of Justice, Scott and Buchan being examples.

    In other ways I’m not. In obvious and less obvious ways.

    The Hanoverian Stuart and the Jacobite Stuart are in constant conflict. I long ago accepted the tension.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719
    edited August 2022
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @HYUFD

    I note for Germany, you quote Lutheran. Does that include all Protestant denominations, or is it really just Lutheran?

    Also... The reality is that on your numbers, almost every country in the eurozone is dominated by non believers.

    There are more Roman Catholics than all Protestant denominations in Germany now (non Lutheran Protestants insignificant).

    A 2019 Euro barometer survey (p229-230 https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/2251) had 30% of Germans as Roman Catholic and 24% as Protestant. The fact northern Germans are less religious than southern Catholic Bavarians has ensured that Germany has a Roman Catholic plurality for the first time since the Reformation.

    As for non believers, only the Netherlands of Eurozone nations has more non believers than Roman Catholics and Protestants combined, so you are not correct on that
    Don't you think that adding together Roman Catholics and Protestants is just a teensy weensy bit moving the goalposts?

    No, we are all Christians.

    However still does not change the fact the vast majority of Eurozone nations have more Roman Catholics than Protestants, while most non Eurozone EU and EFTA nations except Poland and the UK have more Protestants than Roman Catholics
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    Andy_JS said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    Did the Epping Ongar to North Weald train last month, certainly an enjoyable route

    Indeed and it's a very well-run successful line starting from the old Routemaster bus at Epping right through to the bookshop at Ongar.

    I was led to believe the line's owners want to extend right down into Epping, link with the end of the Central Line and provide a rush hour service for commuters going beyond Epping (basically reviving the old link closed in the mid 70s).

    I realise there are many agencies involved but I'm sure you would agree this is something both the Town Council and the District Council could get behind and support.
    Closed in the 1990s (1994, I think?). It was certainly operating when I lived in South Woodford in 1991/2, and I still kind-of regret not having done it in LU service.
    30th September 1994. I started commuting on the Central Line and District Line to Imperial College just three days later, so a missed opportunity!
    Same day the Aldwych spur of the Piccadilly Line closed.
    Am I the only person who's been 'subjected' to a military experience at Aldwych tube?

    (And I'm not being a Walt in saying this.)
    Not sure what you're talking about. Would be interested to know.
    Quite early in Tom Driberg's autobiography he encounters a Scottish squaddie on a train, who after they have done the deed says "Cissies like women, sir, but real men prefairrr MALE flesh."

    Which I am sure is nothing like what happened to our own dear JJ.
  • HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @HYUFD

    I note for Germany, you quote Lutheran. Does that include all Protestant denominations, or is it really just Lutheran?

    Also... The reality is that on your numbers, almost every country in the eurozone is dominated by non believers.

    There are more Roman Catholics than all Protestant denominations in Germany now (non Lutheran Protestants insignificant).

    A 2019 Euro barometer survey (p229-230 https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/2251) had 30% of Germans as Roman Catholic and 24% as Protestant. The fact northern Germans are less religious than southern Catholic Bavarians has ensured that Germany has a Roman Catholic plurality for the first time since the Reformation.

    As for non believers, only the Netherlands of Eurozone nations has more non believers than Roman Catholics and Protestants combined, so you are not correct on that
    Don't you think that adding together Roman Catholics and Protestants is just a teensy weensy bit moving the goalposts?

    No, we are all Christians.

    However still does not change the fact the vast majority of Eurozone nations have more Roman Catholics than Protestants, while most non Eurozone European nations except Poland have more Protestants than Roman Catholics
    Romania?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,688

    Back to SKS is crap then.

    So who would do better with polling evidence please

    So, you’re delighted with Scottish Labour being on 16% and 3rd place?

    Baxter gives (new boundaries):

    SNP 55 seats (+7)
    Con 1 seat (-5)
    Lab 1 seat (nc)
    LD 0 seats (-2)

    = Starmer is a dud

    Always knew you were a Tory, Stuart!
    Well, I kind of am. I self-define as centre-right and have served as a councillor for the Moderates, the principal centre-right party of Sweden. I respect an awful lot (but not all) of the rich Tory heritage in Scotland. The College of Justice, Scott and Buchan being examples.

    In other ways I’m not. In obvious and less obvious ways.

    The Hanoverian Stuart and the Jacobite Stuart are in constant conflict. I long ago accepted the tension.

    It's quite strange that the Independence debate has entirely smothered all other questions.
  • HYUFD said:

    Back to SKS is crap then.

    So who would do better with polling evidence please

    Its not that he is crap, its that he seems uninspiring. The swings at by elections have been tepid, wakefield wasnt impressive given the circumstances, nothing like the LD swings. Similarly in local by elections its all very tepid from a labour perspective, theres no 'oomph' behind him. People are reluctant to conclude Labour are ready for government.
    They are getting there, yes, but its torturous progress.
    The electorate want someone/something to believe in. I don't get the sense many can be arsed to believe in SKS,
    If Starmer gets in it will be the same reason Biden, Hollande, Albanese and Scholz got in, a rejection of the incumbent, not huge enthusiasm for them
    Partly that, but also a sense of whatever it is, make it stop... make Britain Boring Again. And Starmer is actually pretty good for that.

    On the blue side, Sunak 1.0 is much better placed to deliver that than Truss. Current Sunak, flailing around to avoid defeat in the leadership election, maybe less so.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,591
    IshmaelZ said:

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    Andy_JS said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    Did the Epping Ongar to North Weald train last month, certainly an enjoyable route

    Indeed and it's a very well-run successful line starting from the old Routemaster bus at Epping right through to the bookshop at Ongar.

    I was led to believe the line's owners want to extend right down into Epping, link with the end of the Central Line and provide a rush hour service for commuters going beyond Epping (basically reviving the old link closed in the mid 70s).

    I realise there are many agencies involved but I'm sure you would agree this is something both the Town Council and the District Council could get behind and support.
    Closed in the 1990s (1994, I think?). It was certainly operating when I lived in South Woodford in 1991/2, and I still kind-of regret not having done it in LU service.
    30th September 1994. I started commuting on the Central Line and District Line to Imperial College just three days later, so a missed opportunity!
    Same day the Aldwych spur of the Piccadilly Line closed.
    Am I the only person who's been 'subjected' to a military experience at Aldwych tube?

    (And I'm not being a Walt in saying this.)
    Not sure what you're talking about. Would be interested to know.
    Quite early in Tom Driberg's autobiography he encounters a Scottish squaddie on a train, who after they have done the deed says "Cissies like women, sir, but real men prefairrr MALE flesh."

    Which I am sure is nothing like what happened to our own dear JJ.
    You doubt he’d be addressed as ‘sir’ ?
  • Leon said:

    I've missed whether anyone has made these obvious points while I've been away.

    Pop music has definitely, overall, got worse since its peak in the 60s/70s/80s/90s/00s, depending on your POV

    There is a lot more shit music being made now than ever before

    But there's also more good music being made, even if it has become harder to make the "iconic" music that we seem to have loads of from the past

    And it's now happening all over the world. I don't know if anyone listened to my recommendation from yesterday - Monsieur Periné - a Columbian band who have in one day become my favourite foreign language band of all time. They do songs in Spanish and French

    I urge you all to put this on right now and turn it right up

    If you know a better band not singing in English please do let me know

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGL-eQAAxGs

    That's rather charming

    Some of the best pop music is definitely non-English speaking. A PB-er once linked to a brilliant Lebanese jazz-metal band (IIRC) and it was great - frustratingly I forget the name

    Also check The Hu from Mongolia, in one of the most brilliantly ridiculous videos ever made. Heavy metal nose flutes!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM8dCGIm6yc

    The Hu are awesome. They are also touring the UK in early December.

    Not sure about Lebanese Jazz but I have in the past shouted on here about a Lebanese rock band called The Wanton Bishops.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwV5LfxFMxU
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 2,806

    Back to SKS is crap then.

    So who would do better with polling evidence please

    Its not that he is crap, its that he seems uninspiring. The swings at by elections have been tepid, wakefield wasnt impressive given the circumstances, nothing like the LD swings. Similarly in local by elections its all very tepid from a labour perspective, theres no 'oomph' behind him. People are reluctant to conclude Labour are ready for government.
    They are getting there, yes, but its torturous progress.
    The electorate want someone/something to believe in. I don't get the sense many can be arsed to believe in SKS,
    I was chatting to a left-leaning political friend at the weekend and he was saying the usual 'Keir is aiming for the competent bank manager' image. And I had to admit that when I thought of Keir literally *nothing* comes to mind. Not 'bank manager', not 'competent', not even 'boring'. Just... nothing.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,100
    On topic with the header, my impression is that:

    1 - I don't have any impression of Starmer, other than that he has broken some Commons rules 8 times of the sort he has been calling out other people for for months.

    But that feels like some in the political bubble playing a weak garden hose to try and wash away his foundations.

    2 - But I think Starmer has perhaps left room that could provide an escape for the Tories if they get off their individually self-obsessed butts, and get their act together.

    3 - I think that the many vitriolic attacks, perhaps especially the misogynistic ones, on Truss, may also have left her more room to manoeuvre than she had before.

    4 - So the Tories have an opportunity, but I'm not sure they have the possibility to exploit it. Example this weekend of "no we aren't doing anything *now*, or talking about, the CoL crisis.

    This is really far too like BoJo just failing to tell those good stories which are around, and failing to grasp any nettles.

    Inept, and far too defined by the dog ends of Thatcherism.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,100
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @HYUFD

    I note for Germany, you quote Lutheran. Does that include all Protestant denominations, or is it really just Lutheran?

    Also... The reality is that on your numbers, almost every country in the eurozone is dominated by non believers.

    There are more Roman Catholics than all Protestant denominations in Germany now (non Lutheran Protestants insignificant).

    A 2019 Euro barometer survey (p229-230 https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/2251) had 30% of Germans as Roman Catholic and 24% as Protestant. The fact northern Germans are less religious than southern Catholic Bavarians has ensured that Germany has a Roman Catholic plurality for the first time since the Reformation.

    As for non believers, only the Netherlands of Eurozone nations has more non believers than Roman Catholics and Protestants combined, so you are not correct on that
    Don't you think that adding together Roman Catholics and Protestants is just a teensy weensy bit moving the goalposts?

    Personally I think that in some of these cases the numbers for each section are small enough (say around 20%) that the plurality, whilst technically true, is an irrelevance.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @HYUFD

    I note for Germany, you quote Lutheran. Does that include all Protestant denominations, or is it really just Lutheran?

    Also... The reality is that on your numbers, almost every country in the eurozone is dominated by non believers.

    There are more Roman Catholics than all Protestant denominations in Germany now (non Lutheran Protestants insignificant).

    A 2019 Euro barometer survey (p229-230 https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/2251) had 30% of Germans as Roman Catholic and 24% as Protestant. The fact northern Germans are less religious than southern Catholic Bavarians has ensured that Germany has a Roman Catholic plurality for the first time since the Reformation.

    As for non believers, only the Netherlands of Eurozone nations has more non believers than Roman Catholics and Protestants combined, so you are not correct on that
    Don't you think that adding together Roman Catholics and Protestants is just a teensy weensy bit moving the goalposts?

    No, we are all Christians.

    However still does not change the fact the vast majority of Eurozone nations have more Roman Catholics than Protestants, while most non Eurozone European nations except Poland have more Protestants than Roman Catholics
    Less than a quarter of Sweden's population believe in God.

    https://www.taurillon.org/belonging-without-believing-cultural-religion-in-secular-sweden?lang=fr

    Once a country with a majority Christian population, Scotland is now a nation where most people see no evidence for a God, do not pray and do not identify with any religion.

    https://www.humanism.scot/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Beliefs-in-Scotland-e2018.pdf

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,591
    Yikes. Serious Nosferatu vibe.
    Anyone seen one of these things IRL ?
    https://twitter.com/tonyserrata/status/1555643150697373698
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @HYUFD

    I note for Germany, you quote Lutheran. Does that include all Protestant denominations, or is it really just Lutheran?

    Also... The reality is that on your numbers, almost every country in the eurozone is dominated by non believers.

    There are more Roman Catholics than all Protestant denominations in Germany now (non Lutheran Protestants insignificant).

    A 2019 Euro barometer survey (p229-230 https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/2251) had 30% of Germans as Roman Catholic and 24% as Protestant. The fact northern Germans are less religious than southern Catholic Bavarians has ensured that Germany has a Roman Catholic plurality for the first time since the Reformation.

    As for non believers, only the Netherlands of Eurozone nations has more non believers than Roman Catholics and Protestants combined, so you are not correct on that
    Don't you think that adding together Roman Catholics and Protestants is just a teensy weensy bit moving the goalposts?

    No, we are all Christians.

    However still does not change the fact the vast majority of Eurozone nations have more Roman Catholics than Protestants, while most non Eurozone European nations except Poland have more Protestants than Roman Catholics
    Romania?
    Not in the Eurozone and has more Protestants than Catholics (though most are Romanian Orthodox)
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,851
    ohnotnow said:

    Back to SKS is crap then.

    So who would do better with polling evidence please

    Its not that he is crap, its that he seems uninspiring. The swings at by elections have been tepid, wakefield wasnt impressive given the circumstances, nothing like the LD swings. Similarly in local by elections its all very tepid from a labour perspective, theres no 'oomph' behind him. People are reluctant to conclude Labour are ready for government.
    They are getting there, yes, but its torturous progress.
    The electorate want someone/something to believe in. I don't get the sense many can be arsed to believe in SKS,
    I was chatting to a left-leaning political friend at the weekend and he was saying the usual 'Keir is aiming for the competent bank manager' image. And I had to admit that when I thought of Keir literally *nothing* comes to mind. Not 'bank manager', not 'competent', not even 'boring'. Just... nothing.
    Yes i'd agree. A void. So, i guess avoid.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 4,557

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    SKS fans please explain

    LAB doesn't need a majority at the next election for Starmer to become PM - the Tories do to remain in power
    It's politics as showbiz. It's hard to see Starmer competing against Fizzy with an electorate that finds "I'm a celebrity..." intellectually challenging.
    That is, unfortunately, the A and Ω of the situation. A populace that could just as well have had full frontal lobotomies.

    When Liz Truss first seriously featured as a name, I was impressed. Big time. I went through a dip, but I’m coming back round to my initial assessment: I think she’s going to be a cracker for the Tories. Yes, the economic background is absolutely dire, but I’m pretty sure she can lay most of the blame for that on Brown, Cameron, Clegg, May and The Oaf. It is merely a marketing problem. Not insurmountable. The poor will freeze and starve - quite literally - but PM Truss will be alright Jack.

    My opinion of Starmer on the other hand has gone in only one direction. Straight down. I was a huge fan and very optimistic when he was first elected. England needs a decent leader. But what a disappointment. A total dud.
    Slightly surprised to see you use 'England' for 'the United Kingdom.'
    I aim to stimulate and challenge my readership with a broad variety of techniques. I’m pleased to surprise and delight you.

    The “PM” is, de facto, the FM of England.
    All nations need a leader. Even the English. Quite what they did to deserve Brown, Cameron, May, The Oaf and Truss is a moot question.
    Elected them?

    Well, except Brown and maybe Truss anyway.
  • Leon said:

    I've missed whether anyone has made these obvious points while I've been away.

    Pop music has definitely, overall, got worse since its peak in the 60s/70s/80s/90s/00s, depending on your POV

    There is a lot more shit music being made now than ever before

    But there's also more good music being made, even if it has become harder to make the "iconic" music that we seem to have loads of from the past

    And it's now happening all over the world. I don't know if anyone listened to my recommendation from yesterday - Monsieur Periné - a Columbian band who have in one day become my favourite foreign language band of all time. They do songs in Spanish and French

    I urge you all to put this on right now and turn it right up

    If you know a better band not singing in English please do let me know

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGL-eQAAxGs

    That's rather charming

    Some of the best pop music is definitely non-English speaking. A PB-er once linked to a brilliant Lebanese jazz-metal band (IIRC) and it was great - frustratingly I forget the name

    Also check The Hu from Mongolia, in one of the most brilliantly ridiculous videos ever made. Heavy metal nose flutes!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM8dCGIm6yc

    The Hu are awesome. They are also touring the UK in early December.

    Not sure about Lebanese Jazz but I have in the past shouted on here about a Lebanese rock band called The Wanton Bishops.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwV5LfxFMxU
    I may be mis-remembering, but I'm sure that in my youth, every summer had a foreign-language Europop song that made it big. Falco, Vanessa Paradis, Desireless, et cetera. Smash Hits magazine used to take the mickey out of translating their lyrics, petering out into

    my aunt became a taxi,
    my German never was any good,
    sorry about that.


    Did they just stop happening, and did it matter?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,591
    RIP ONJ.
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,704
    Olivia Newton-John has sadly lost her long battle with cancer

    https://twitter.com/phil_lewis_/status/1556723881364361219?s=21&t=kw41lsocjwTt6Q7fkt0qhQ
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,314

    ohnotnow said:

    Back to SKS is crap then.

    So who would do better with polling evidence please

    Its not that he is crap, its that he seems uninspiring. The swings at by elections have been tepid, wakefield wasnt impressive given the circumstances, nothing like the LD swings. Similarly in local by elections its all very tepid from a labour perspective, theres no 'oomph' behind him. People are reluctant to conclude Labour are ready for government.
    They are getting there, yes, but its torturous progress.
    The electorate want someone/something to believe in. I don't get the sense many can be arsed to believe in SKS,
    I was chatting to a left-leaning political friend at the weekend and he was saying the usual 'Keir is aiming for the competent bank manager' image. And I had to admit that when I thought of Keir literally *nothing* comes to mind. Not 'bank manager', not 'competent', not even 'boring'. Just... nothing.
    Yes i'd agree. A void. So, i guess avoid.
    No, he was brilliantly summarised in that essay I linked to, a few days ago


    "I hate him aesthetically. I hate his fussy little too-perfect just-shy-of-Nazi-officer haircut; hate his “Prime Minister from central casting” face, which initially seemed designed by committee, but increasingly suffers from having an expression slapped on it like he's desperately trying to explain away his role in a sex scandal at the dog pound he runs; hate his pedantic voice, which makes everything he says sound like an HR meeting you don't really need to be at."


    The last line in particular is genius

    https://www.gawker.com/politics/i-hate-keir-starmer
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @HYUFD

    I note for Germany, you quote Lutheran. Does that include all Protestant denominations, or is it really just Lutheran?

    Also... The reality is that on your numbers, almost every country in the eurozone is dominated by non believers.

    There are more Roman Catholics than all Protestant denominations in Germany now (non Lutheran Protestants insignificant).

    A 2019 Euro barometer survey (p229-230 https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/2251) had 30% of Germans as Roman Catholic and 24% as Protestant. The fact northern Germans are less religious than southern Catholic Bavarians has ensured that Germany has a Roman Catholic plurality for the first time since the Reformation.

    As for non believers, only the Netherlands of Eurozone nations has more non believers than Roman Catholics and Protestants combined, so you are not correct on that
    Don't you think that adding together Roman Catholics and Protestants is just a teensy weensy bit moving the goalposts?

    No, we are all Christians.

    However still does not change the fact the vast majority of Eurozone nations have more Roman Catholics than Protestants, while most non Eurozone European nations except Poland have more Protestants than Roman Catholics
    Less than a quarter of Sweden's population believe in God.

    https://www.taurillon.org/belonging-without-believing-cultural-religion-in-secular-sweden?lang=fr

    Once a country with a majority Christian population, Scotland is now a nation where most people see no evidence for a God, do not pray and do not identify with any religion.

    https://www.humanism.scot/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Beliefs-in-Scotland-e2018.pdf

    Sweden is also not in the Eurozone. However Sweden also has more Lutherans than Roman Catholics and Scotland is not in the EU or Eurozone and has more Church of Scotland than Roman Catholics (albeit a bigger Roman Catholic percentage than England).

    So my thesis holds
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    HYUFD said:

    YouGov, the only pollster to correctly weigh geographical sub-samples, also show that Keir Starmer is a dud. Back down to 3rd place in Scotland = no cigars.

    London
    Lab 42%
    Con 28%
    LD 15%
    Grn 10%
    Ref 2%

    Rest of South
    Con 41%
    Lab 32%
    LD 14%
    Grn 8%
    Ref 3%

    Midlands and Wales
    Lab 40%
    Con 34%
    LD 9%
    PC 6%
    Grn 6%
    Ref 4%

    North
    Lab 47%
    Con 29%
    Grn 9%
    LD 8%
    Ref 5%

    Scotland
    SNP 51%
    Con 22%
    Lab 16%
    LD 5%
    Grn 4%
    Ref 1%

    (YouGov / The Times; Sample Size: 1,968; Fieldwork: 4th - 5th August 2022)

    Pro-independence parties 55%
    Unionist parties 44%

    It doesn't matter if the SNP are on 99%, Truss has made clear she will not allow any indyref2 on her watch. As the future of the union is reserved to Westminster and the UK government under the Scotland Act 1998 nothing the SNP can do about it.

    In fact logically it is better for the SNP to lose seats in Scotland but hold the balance of power in a hung parliament at Westminster than for the SNP to gain seats in Scotland and increase their number of MPs there but for either the Tories to win another majority or Labour to win most seats and have either a majority or enough seats to have a majority with the LDs
    The SCons being second in a sub sample has evidently loosened your grip on the English language.
    At least one Tory isn’t ruling out the possibility of an indyref2.


    Chortle.

    The fight is on to lead BetterTogether2. The campaign that is going to win a referendum that is never going to happen.

    I hear that former Tory MSP (1999-2016) Mary Scanlon was ripping her hair out live on GMS. Shame I missed it. Did you catch it?
    I did, though on the tv. Quite refreshing to see a SCon not being mealy mouthed in their criticism of other Tories.
    Aha. I misheard the medium.

    Nothing like a bit of Yoon on Yoon action. Refreshes the soul.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,851
    Nigelb said:

    RIP ONJ.

    Ah man her name was all over here last week with the 'X' songs and Xanadu
  • Leon said:

    I've missed whether anyone has made these obvious points while I've been away.

    Pop music has definitely, overall, got worse since its peak in the 60s/70s/80s/90s/00s, depending on your POV

    There is a lot more shit music being made now than ever before

    But there's also more good music being made, even if it has become harder to make the "iconic" music that we seem to have loads of from the past

    And it's now happening all over the world. I don't know if anyone listened to my recommendation from yesterday - Monsieur Periné - a Columbian band who have in one day become my favourite foreign language band of all time. They do songs in Spanish and French

    I urge you all to put this on right now and turn it right up

    If you know a better band not singing in English please do let me know

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGL-eQAAxGs

    That's rather charming

    Some of the best pop music is definitely non-English speaking. A PB-er once linked to a brilliant Lebanese jazz-metal band (IIRC) and it was great - frustratingly I forget the name

    Also check The Hu from Mongolia, in one of the most brilliantly ridiculous videos ever made. Heavy metal nose flutes!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM8dCGIm6yc

    The Hu are awesome. They are also touring the UK in early December.

    Not sure about Lebanese Jazz but I have in the past shouted on here about a Lebanese rock band called The Wanton Bishops.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwV5LfxFMxU
    I may be mis-remembering, but I'm sure that in my youth, every summer had a foreign-language Europop song that made it big. Falco, Vanessa Paradis, Desireless, et cetera. Smash Hits magazine used to take the mickey out of translating their lyrics, petering out into

    my aunt became a taxi,
    my German never was any good,
    sorry about that.


    Did they just stop happening, and did it matter?
    Voyage, Voyage is my favourite foreign-lingo song of all time :)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,314

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @HYUFD

    I note for Germany, you quote Lutheran. Does that include all Protestant denominations, or is it really just Lutheran?

    Also... The reality is that on your numbers, almost every country in the eurozone is dominated by non believers.

    There are more Roman Catholics than all Protestant denominations in Germany now (non Lutheran Protestants insignificant).

    A 2019 Euro barometer survey (p229-230 https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/2251) had 30% of Germans as Roman Catholic and 24% as Protestant. The fact northern Germans are less religious than southern Catholic Bavarians has ensured that Germany has a Roman Catholic plurality for the first time since the Reformation.

    As for non believers, only the Netherlands of Eurozone nations has more non believers than Roman Catholics and Protestants combined, so you are not correct on that
    Don't you think that adding together Roman Catholics and Protestants is just a teensy weensy bit moving the goalposts?

    No, we are all Christians.

    However still does not change the fact the vast majority of Eurozone nations have more Roman Catholics than Protestants, while most non Eurozone European nations except Poland have more Protestants than Roman Catholics
    Less than a quarter of Sweden's population believe in God.

    https://www.taurillon.org/belonging-without-believing-cultural-religion-in-secular-sweden?lang=fr

    Once a country with a majority Christian population, Scotland is now a nation where most people see no evidence for a God, do not pray and do not identify with any religion.

    https://www.humanism.scot/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Beliefs-in-Scotland-e2018.pdf

    If I were unfortunate enough to live in Scotland, or Sweden - the first the most depressing country on earth, the second the dreariest - I too would see "no evidence for a God", certainly not a benign one
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 4,542
    MattW said:

    On topic with the header, my impression is that:

    1 - I don't have any impression of Starmer, other than that he has broken some Commons rules 8 times of the sort he has been calling out other people for for months.

    But that feels like some in the political bubble playing a weak garden hose to try and wash away his foundations.

    2 - But I think Starmer has perhaps left room that could provide an escape for the Tories if they get off their individually self-obsessed butts, and get their act together.

    3 - I think that the many vitriolic attacks, perhaps especially the misogynistic ones, on Truss, may also have left her more room to manoeuvre than she had before.

    4 - So the Tories have an opportunity, but I'm not sure they have the possibility to exploit it. Example this weekend of "no we aren't doing anything *now*, or talking about, the CoL crisis.

    This is really far too like BoJo just failing to tell those good stories which are around, and failing to grasp any nettles.

    Inept, and far too defined by the dog ends of Thatcherism.

    What misogynistic attacks . I don’t think this has been an issue . The reason many dislike her is she will be a puppet for the ERG and continue the EU hate . I expect two years of dangerous divisive politics where she calls out anyone who disagrees with her as unpatriotic aided and abetted by the utterly loathsome Dacre.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,153
    Taz said:

    Olivia Newton-John has sadly lost her long battle with cancer

    https://twitter.com/phil_lewis_/status/1556723881364361219?s=21&t=kw41lsocjwTt6Q7fkt0qhQ

    😡😡😡
  • FishingFishing Posts: 4,557
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    36C in London at the weekend

    Sounds like nothing, after 40C, but that would be one of the top 10 hottest ever days in the UK

    Thanks to my wife's health situation I am dreading the end of this week.

    Roll on Autumn I say.

    Sympathies

    I’m going to miss this weather. Every day sunny. 25-30C. Lovely warm evenings. You soon get used to it
    I am very happy with say 24 or 25 degrees.

    But not 30 or 31 or worse.

    30 is about my fave, because it means soft evenings of about 24C. Gorgeous. It is 24C right now in Camden. Mmm
    Depends on the humidity. 30C with clouds and 90% humidity is terrible. With 10% humidity and sun it feels great to be alive.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @HYUFD

    I note for Germany, you quote Lutheran. Does that include all Protestant denominations, or is it really just Lutheran?

    Also... The reality is that on your numbers, almost every country in the eurozone is dominated by non believers.

    There are more Roman Catholics than all Protestant denominations in Germany now (non Lutheran Protestants insignificant).

    A 2019 Euro barometer survey (p229-230 https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/2251) had 30% of Germans as Roman Catholic and 24% as Protestant. The fact northern Germans are less religious than southern Catholic Bavarians has ensured that Germany has a Roman Catholic plurality for the first time since the Reformation.

    As for non believers, only the Netherlands of Eurozone nations has more non believers than Roman Catholics and Protestants combined, so you are not correct on that
    Don't you think that adding together Roman Catholics and Protestants is just a teensy weensy bit moving the goalposts?

    No, we are all Christians.

    However still does not change the fact the vast majority of Eurozone nations have more Roman Catholics than Protestants, while most non Eurozone European nations except Poland have more Protestants than Roman Catholics
    Less than a quarter of Sweden's population believe in God.

    https://www.taurillon.org/belonging-without-believing-cultural-religion-in-secular-sweden?lang=fr

    Once a country with a majority Christian population, Scotland is now a nation where most people see no evidence for a God, do not pray and do not identify with any religion.

    https://www.humanism.scot/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Beliefs-in-Scotland-e2018.pdf

    Sweden is also not in the Eurozone. However Sweden also has more Lutherans than Roman Catholics and Scotland is not in the EU or Eurozone and has more Church of Scotland than Roman Catholics (albeit a bigger Roman Catholic percentage than England).

    So my thesis holds
    “Thesis” you say?

    Bampottery say I.
  • Taz said:

    Olivia Newton-John has sadly lost her long battle with cancer

    https://twitter.com/phil_lewis_/status/1556723881364361219?s=21&t=kw41lsocjwTt6Q7fkt0qhQ

    Damn that's a shame. I was never much of a fan of her stuff but she always seemed like a really nice person. And of course I am of an age where Grease was part of my formative years.

    RIP.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,851
    Leon said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Back to SKS is crap then.

    So who would do better with polling evidence please

    Its not that he is crap, its that he seems uninspiring. The swings at by elections have been tepid, wakefield wasnt impressive given the circumstances, nothing like the LD swings. Similarly in local by elections its all very tepid from a labour perspective, theres no 'oomph' behind him. People are reluctant to conclude Labour are ready for government.
    They are getting there, yes, but its torturous progress.
    The electorate want someone/something to believe in. I don't get the sense many can be arsed to believe in SKS,
    I was chatting to a left-leaning political friend at the weekend and he was saying the usual 'Keir is aiming for the competent bank manager' image. And I had to admit that when I thought of Keir literally *nothing* comes to mind. Not 'bank manager', not 'competent', not even 'boring'. Just... nothing.
    Yes i'd agree. A void. So, i guess avoid.
    No, he was brilliantly summarised in that essay I linked to, a few days ago


    "I hate him aesthetically. I hate his fussy little too-perfect just-shy-of-Nazi-officer haircut; hate his “Prime Minister from central casting” face, which initially seemed designed by committee, but increasingly suffers from having an expression slapped on it like he's desperately trying to explain away his role in a sex scandal at the dog pound he runs; hate his pedantic voice, which makes everything he says sound like an HR meeting you don't really need to be at."


    The last line in particular is genius

    https://www.gawker.com/politics/i-hate-keir-starmer
    I think that assigns him a relevance and presence he simply doesnt have.
    He is that picture in Hartlepool. Ignored, ridiculous, a political non entity.
  • Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @HYUFD

    I note for Germany, you quote Lutheran. Does that include all Protestant denominations, or is it really just Lutheran?

    Also... The reality is that on your numbers, almost every country in the eurozone is dominated by non believers.

    There are more Roman Catholics than all Protestant denominations in Germany now (non Lutheran Protestants insignificant).

    A 2019 Euro barometer survey (p229-230 https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/2251) had 30% of Germans as Roman Catholic and 24% as Protestant. The fact northern Germans are less religious than southern Catholic Bavarians has ensured that Germany has a Roman Catholic plurality for the first time since the Reformation.

    As for non believers, only the Netherlands of Eurozone nations has more non believers than Roman Catholics and Protestants combined, so you are not correct on that
    Don't you think that adding together Roman Catholics and Protestants is just a teensy weensy bit moving the goalposts?

    No, we are all Christians.

    However still does not change the fact the vast majority of Eurozone nations have more Roman Catholics than Protestants, while most non Eurozone European nations except Poland have more Protestants than Roman Catholics
    Less than a quarter of Sweden's population believe in God.

    https://www.taurillon.org/belonging-without-believing-cultural-religion-in-secular-sweden?lang=fr

    Once a country with a majority Christian population, Scotland is now a nation where most people see no evidence for a God, do not pray and do not identify with any religion.

    https://www.humanism.scot/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Beliefs-in-Scotland-e2018.pdf

    If I were unfortunate enough to live in Scotland, or Sweden - the first the most depressing country on earth, the second the dreariest - I too would see "no evidence for a God", certainly not a benign one
    I live in Blighty and see no evidence of "God"!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,780
    I just discovered there are competitive Excel competitions that are televised on ESPN2.

    That's right: people watch a TV show about people competing at using spreadsheets to solve problems.

    Should anyone wish to watch (and I'm afraid I've been washing my hair, and haven't had a chance), it can be viewed on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1RVNGDSdw4&t=854s&ab_channel=FinancialModelingWorldCup
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719
    edited August 2022
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @HYUFD

    I note for Germany, you quote Lutheran. Does that include all Protestant denominations, or is it really just Lutheran?

    Also... The reality is that on your numbers, almost every country in the eurozone is dominated by non believers.

    There are more Roman Catholics than all Protestant denominations in Germany now (non Lutheran Protestants insignificant).

    A 2019 Euro barometer survey (p229-230 https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/2251) had 30% of Germans as Roman Catholic and 24% as Protestant. The fact northern Germans are less religious than southern Catholic Bavarians has ensured that Germany has a Roman Catholic plurality for the first time since the Reformation.

    As for non believers, only the Netherlands of Eurozone nations has more non believers than Roman Catholics and Protestants combined, so you are not correct on that
    Don't you think that adding together Roman Catholics and Protestants is just a teensy weensy bit moving the goalposts?

    No, we are all Christians.

    However still does not change the fact the vast majority of Eurozone nations have more Roman Catholics than Protestants, while most non Eurozone European nations except Poland have more Protestants than Roman Catholics
    Less than a quarter of Sweden's population believe in God.

    https://www.taurillon.org/belonging-without-believing-cultural-religion-in-secular-sweden?lang=fr

    Once a country with a majority Christian population, Scotland is now a nation where most people see no evidence for a God, do not pray and do not identify with any religion.

    https://www.humanism.scot/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Beliefs-in-Scotland-e2018.pdf

    If I were unfortunate enough to live in Scotland, or Sweden - the first the most depressing country on earth, the second the dreariest - I too would see "no evidence for a God", certainly not a benign one
    8% of Sweden's population are Muslim now though, the third highest percentage of Muslims in Europe after Bulgaria and France

    https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/11/29/5-facts-about-the-muslim-population-in-europe/
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,314

    Leon said:

    I've missed whether anyone has made these obvious points while I've been away.

    Pop music has definitely, overall, got worse since its peak in the 60s/70s/80s/90s/00s, depending on your POV

    There is a lot more shit music being made now than ever before

    But there's also more good music being made, even if it has become harder to make the "iconic" music that we seem to have loads of from the past

    And it's now happening all over the world. I don't know if anyone listened to my recommendation from yesterday - Monsieur Periné - a Columbian band who have in one day become my favourite foreign language band of all time. They do songs in Spanish and French

    I urge you all to put this on right now and turn it right up

    If you know a better band not singing in English please do let me know

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGL-eQAAxGs

    That's rather charming

    Some of the best pop music is definitely non-English speaking. A PB-er once linked to a brilliant Lebanese jazz-metal band (IIRC) and it was great - frustratingly I forget the name

    Also check The Hu from Mongolia, in one of the most brilliantly ridiculous videos ever made. Heavy metal nose flutes!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM8dCGIm6yc

    The Hu are awesome. They are also touring the UK in early December.

    Not sure about Lebanese Jazz but I have in the past shouted on here about a Lebanese rock band called The Wanton Bishops.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwV5LfxFMxU
    That's it. Cracking song. Now in my itunes library

    GRATITUDE
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,704

    Nigelb said:

    RIP ONJ.

    Ah man her name was all over here last week with the 'X' songs and Xanadu
    Yes, she was, and here it is in all its glory.

    https://youtu.be/cLi8fTlDEag

  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    Taz said:

    Olivia Newton-John has sadly lost her long battle with cancer

    https://twitter.com/phil_lewis_/status/1556723881364361219?s=21&t=kw41lsocjwTt6Q7fkt0qhQ

    Damn that's a shame. I was never much of a fan of her stuff but she always seemed like a really nice person. And of course I am of an age where Grease was part of my formative years.

    RIP.
    She was the grand-daughter of a Physics Nobel Laureate.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,780
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @HYUFD

    I note for Germany, you quote Lutheran. Does that include all Protestant denominations, or is it really just Lutheran?

    Also... The reality is that on your numbers, almost every country in the eurozone is dominated by non believers.

    There are more Roman Catholics than all Protestant denominations in Germany now (non Lutheran Protestants insignificant).

    A 2019 Euro barometer survey (p229-230 https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/2251) had 30% of Germans as Roman Catholic and 24% as Protestant. The fact northern Germans are less religious than southern Catholic Bavarians has ensured that Germany has a Roman Catholic plurality for the first time since the Reformation.

    As for non believers, only the Netherlands of Eurozone nations has more non believers than Roman Catholics and Protestants combined, so you are not correct on that
    Don't you think that adding together Roman Catholics and Protestants is just a teensy weensy bit moving the goalposts?

    No, we are all Christians.

    However still does not change the fact the vast majority of Eurozone nations have more Roman Catholics than Protestants, while most non Eurozone European nations except Poland have more Protestants than Roman Catholics
    Less than a quarter of Sweden's population believe in God.

    https://www.taurillon.org/belonging-without-believing-cultural-religion-in-secular-sweden?lang=fr

    Once a country with a majority Christian population, Scotland is now a nation where most people see no evidence for a God, do not pray and do not identify with any religion.

    https://www.humanism.scot/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Beliefs-in-Scotland-e2018.pdf

    If I were unfortunate enough to live in Scotland, or Sweden - the first the most depressing country on earth, the second the dreariest - I too would see "no evidence for a God", certainly not a benign one
    8% of Sweden's population are Muslim now though, the second highest percentage of Muslims in Europe after France

    https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/11/29/5-facts-about-the-muslim-population-in-europe/
    Ah, and before a former poster on the site decided to claim he had no bet with me, I sold Muslims in the UK at about 15% of the population.

    Happy days.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,100
    edited August 2022
    nico679 said:

    MattW said:

    On topic with the header, my impression is that:

    1 - I don't have any impression of Starmer, other than that he has broken some Commons rules 8 times of the sort he has been calling out other people for for months.

    But that feels like some in the political bubble playing a weak garden hose to try and wash away his foundations.

    2 - But I think Starmer has perhaps left room that could provide an escape for the Tories if they get off their individually self-obsessed butts, and get their act together.

    3 - I think that the many vitriolic attacks, perhaps especially the misogynistic ones, on Truss, may also have left her more room to manoeuvre than she had before.

    4 - So the Tories have an opportunity, but I'm not sure they have the possibility to exploit it. Example this weekend of "no we aren't doing anything *now*, or talking about, the CoL crisis.

    This is really far too like BoJo just failing to tell those good stories which are around, and failing to grasp any nettles.

    Inept, and far too defined by the dog ends of Thatcherism.

    What misogynistic attacks . I don’t think this has been an issue . The reason many dislike her is she will be a puppet for the ERG and continue the EU hate . I expect two years of dangerous divisive politics where she calls out anyone who disagrees with her as unpatriotic aided and abetted by the utterly loathsome Dacre.
    I think the abusive stuff about her appearance and her sexuality, and various rumours, properly counts as misogynistic.

    Consider the conversations on PB about possible meanings of her jewellery, for example.

    It's also imo a process of demonisation / contempt that goes on regularly for prominent Tories.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,100

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @HYUFD

    I note for Germany, you quote Lutheran. Does that include all Protestant denominations, or is it really just Lutheran?

    Also... The reality is that on your numbers, almost every country in the eurozone is dominated by non believers.

    There are more Roman Catholics than all Protestant denominations in Germany now (non Lutheran Protestants insignificant).

    A 2019 Euro barometer survey (p229-230 https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/2251) had 30% of Germans as Roman Catholic and 24% as Protestant. The fact northern Germans are less religious than southern Catholic Bavarians has ensured that Germany has a Roman Catholic plurality for the first time since the Reformation.

    As for non believers, only the Netherlands of Eurozone nations has more non believers than Roman Catholics and Protestants combined, so you are not correct on that
    Don't you think that adding together Roman Catholics and Protestants is just a teensy weensy bit moving the goalposts?

    No, we are all Christians.

    However still does not change the fact the vast majority of Eurozone nations have more Roman Catholics than Protestants, while most non Eurozone European nations except Poland have more Protestants than Roman Catholics
    Less than a quarter of Sweden's population believe in God.

    https://www.taurillon.org/belonging-without-believing-cultural-religion-in-secular-sweden?lang=fr

    Once a country with a majority Christian population, Scotland is now a nation where most people see no evidence for a God, do not pray and do not identify with any religion.

    https://www.humanism.scot/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Beliefs-in-Scotland-e2018.pdf

    Sweden is also not in the Eurozone. However Sweden also has more Lutherans than Roman Catholics and Scotland is not in the EU or Eurozone and has more Church of Scotland than Roman Catholics (albeit a bigger Roman Catholic percentage than England).

    So my thesis holds
    “Thesis” you say?

    Bampottery say I.
    I say "logic-chopping".
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @HYUFD

    I note for Germany, you quote Lutheran. Does that include all Protestant denominations, or is it really just Lutheran?

    Also... The reality is that on your numbers, almost every country in the eurozone is dominated by non believers.

    There are more Roman Catholics than all Protestant denominations in Germany now (non Lutheran Protestants insignificant).

    A 2019 Euro barometer survey (p229-230 https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/2251) had 30% of Germans as Roman Catholic and 24% as Protestant. The fact northern Germans are less religious than southern Catholic Bavarians has ensured that Germany has a Roman Catholic plurality for the first time since the Reformation.

    As for non believers, only the Netherlands of Eurozone nations has more non believers than Roman Catholics and Protestants combined, so you are not correct on that
    Don't you think that adding together Roman Catholics and Protestants is just a teensy weensy bit moving the goalposts?

    No, we are all Christians.

    However still does not change the fact the vast majority of Eurozone nations have more Roman Catholics than Protestants, while most non Eurozone European nations except Poland have more Protestants than Roman Catholics
    Less than a quarter of Sweden's population believe in God.

    https://www.taurillon.org/belonging-without-believing-cultural-religion-in-secular-sweden?lang=fr

    Once a country with a majority Christian population, Scotland is now a nation where most people see no evidence for a God, do not pray and do not identify with any religion.

    https://www.humanism.scot/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Beliefs-in-Scotland-e2018.pdf

    If I were unfortunate enough to live in Scotland, or Sweden - the first the most depressing country on earth, the second the dreariest - I too would see "no evidence for a God", certainly not a benign one
    Come toke your joints on the hot, smooth rocks by the Kattegat Sean. Peruse the archipelagos. Admire the astonishing local talent. Dip your teensy-weeny feet in our surprisingly warm sea. Eat the finest seafood on the planet. Enjoy the space and the light and the forests and the freedom and the company of thoughtful, inquisitive minds.

    We are as close to divinity as any other place on earth.
  • ohnotnow said:

    Back to SKS is crap then.

    So who would do better with polling evidence please

    Its not that he is crap, its that he seems uninspiring. The swings at by elections have been tepid, wakefield wasnt impressive given the circumstances, nothing like the LD swings. Similarly in local by elections its all very tepid from a labour perspective, theres no 'oomph' behind him. People are reluctant to conclude Labour are ready for government.
    They are getting there, yes, but its torturous progress.
    The electorate want someone/something to believe in. I don't get the sense many can be arsed to believe in SKS,
    I was chatting to a left-leaning political friend at the weekend and he was saying the usual 'Keir is aiming for the competent bank manager' image. And I had to admit that when I thought of Keir literally *nothing* comes to mind. Not 'bank manager', not 'competent', not even 'boring'. Just... nothing.
    Yes i'd agree. A void. So, i guess avoid.
    Whilst I don't necessarily hold the same opinion of Starmer, following on from these comments I am reminded of two infamous quotes from Churchill about Attlee.

    “There’s a lot less there than meets the eye.”

    and

    “An empty taxi-cab pulled up and out stepped Clement Attlee.”

    (Actually, and in spite of what The Crown might claim, there is no evidence Churchill ever said the second quote which predates him by many decades)
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,092

    Taz said:

    Olivia Newton-John has sadly lost her long battle with cancer

    https://twitter.com/phil_lewis_/status/1556723881364361219?s=21&t=kw41lsocjwTt6Q7fkt0qhQ

    Damn that's a shame. I was never much of a fan of her stuff but she always seemed like a really nice person. And of course I am of an age where Grease was part of my formative years.

    RIP.
    She was the grand-daughter of a Physics Nobel Laureate.
    Was that on the Newton side?

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Taz said:

    Olivia Newton-John has sadly lost her long battle with cancer

    https://twitter.com/phil_lewis_/status/1556723881364361219?s=21&t=kw41lsocjwTt6Q7fkt0qhQ

    No she hasn't, she has died of it. Dork.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,780
    HYUFD said:

    Back to SKS is crap then.

    So who would do better with polling evidence please

    Its not that he is crap, its that he seems uninspiring. The swings at by elections have been tepid, wakefield wasnt impressive given the circumstances, nothing like the LD swings. Similarly in local by elections its all very tepid from a labour perspective, theres no 'oomph' behind him. People are reluctant to conclude Labour are ready for government.
    They are getting there, yes, but its torturous progress.
    The electorate want someone/something to believe in. I don't get the sense many can be arsed to believe in SKS,
    If Starmer gets in it will be the same reason Biden, Hollande, Albanese and Scholz got in, a rejection of the incumbent, not huge enthusiasm for them
    Scholz wasn't competing with an incumbent, but other than that, I agree.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,851
    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    RIP ONJ.

    Ah man her name was all over here last week with the 'X' songs and Xanadu
    Yes, she was, and here it is in all its glory.

    https://youtu.be/cLi8fTlDEag

    Jeff Lynne the absolute boss with ONJ and Gene Kelly with a cheeky little appearance. What more can you ask for?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,591

    Leon said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Back to SKS is crap then.

    So who would do better with polling evidence please

    Its not that he is crap, its that he seems uninspiring. The swings at by elections have been tepid, wakefield wasnt impressive given the circumstances, nothing like the LD swings. Similarly in local by elections its all very tepid from a labour perspective, theres no 'oomph' behind him. People are reluctant to conclude Labour are ready for government.
    They are getting there, yes, but its torturous progress.
    The electorate want someone/something to believe in. I don't get the sense many can be arsed to believe in SKS,
    I was chatting to a left-leaning political friend at the weekend and he was saying the usual 'Keir is aiming for the competent bank manager' image. And I had to admit that when I thought of Keir literally *nothing* comes to mind. Not 'bank manager', not 'competent', not even 'boring'. Just... nothing.
    Yes i'd agree. A void. So, i guess avoid.
    No, he was brilliantly summarised in that essay I linked to, a few days ago


    "I hate him aesthetically. I hate his fussy little too-perfect just-shy-of-Nazi-officer haircut; hate his “Prime Minister from central casting” face, which initially seemed designed by committee, but increasingly suffers from having an expression slapped on it like he's desperately trying to explain away his role in a sex scandal at the dog pound he runs; hate his pedantic voice, which makes everything he says sound like an HR meeting you don't really need to be at."

    The last line in particular is genius

    https://www.gawker.com/politics/i-hate-keir-starmer
    I think that assigns him a relevance and presence he simply doesnt have.
    He is that picture in Hartlepool. Ignored, ridiculous, a political non entity.
    Some apparent desperation to rubbish Starmer, tonight.
    If he’s that bad, it would seem a serious waste of effort.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @HYUFD

    I note for Germany, you quote Lutheran. Does that include all Protestant denominations, or is it really just Lutheran?

    Also... The reality is that on your numbers, almost every country in the eurozone is dominated by non believers.

    There are more Roman Catholics than all Protestant denominations in Germany now (non Lutheran Protestants insignificant).

    A 2019 Euro barometer survey (p229-230 https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/2251) had 30% of Germans as Roman Catholic and 24% as Protestant. The fact northern Germans are less religious than southern Catholic Bavarians has ensured that Germany has a Roman Catholic plurality for the first time since the Reformation.

    As for non believers, only the Netherlands of Eurozone nations has more non believers than Roman Catholics and Protestants combined, so you are not correct on that
    Don't you think that adding together Roman Catholics and Protestants is just a teensy weensy bit moving the goalposts?

    No, we are all Christians.

    However still does not change the fact the vast majority of Eurozone nations have more Roman Catholics than Protestants, while most non Eurozone European nations except Poland have more Protestants than Roman Catholics
    Less than a quarter of Sweden's population believe in God.

    https://www.taurillon.org/belonging-without-believing-cultural-religion-in-secular-sweden?lang=fr

    Once a country with a majority Christian population, Scotland is now a nation where most people see no evidence for a God, do not pray and do not identify with any religion.

    https://www.humanism.scot/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Beliefs-in-Scotland-e2018.pdf

    If I were unfortunate enough to live in Scotland, or Sweden - the first the most depressing country on earth, the second the dreariest - I too would see "no evidence for a God", certainly not a benign one
    Come toke your joints on the hot, smooth rocks by the Kattegat Sean. Peruse the archipelagos. Admire the astonishing local talent. Dip your teensy-weeny feet in our surprisingly warm sea. Eat the finest seafood on the planet. Enjoy the space and the light and the forests and the freedom and the company of thoughtful, inquisitive minds.

    We are as close to divinity as any other place on earth.
    For secular social democrats maybe but I am neither. Though yes I can still appreciate the food and landscape, wouldn't want a beach holiday there though and London has more cultural attractions than Stockholm
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Back to SKS is crap then.

    So who would do better with polling evidence please

    Its not that he is crap, its that he seems uninspiring. The swings at by elections have been tepid, wakefield wasnt impressive given the circumstances, nothing like the LD swings. Similarly in local by elections its all very tepid from a labour perspective, theres no 'oomph' behind him. People are reluctant to conclude Labour are ready for government.
    They are getting there, yes, but its torturous progress.
    The electorate want someone/something to believe in. I don't get the sense many can be arsed to believe in SKS,
    If Starmer gets in it will be the same reason Biden, Hollande, Albanese and Scholz got in, a rejection of the incumbent, not huge enthusiasm for them
    Scholz wasn't competing with an incumbent, but other than that, I agree.
    He was competing with the Chancellor candidate of the incumbent largest party in the government however, who was unpopular
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @HYUFD

    I note for Germany, you quote Lutheran. Does that include all Protestant denominations, or is it really just Lutheran?

    Also... The reality is that on your numbers, almost every country in the eurozone is dominated by non believers.

    There are more Roman Catholics than all Protestant denominations in Germany now (non Lutheran Protestants insignificant).

    A 2019 Euro barometer survey (p229-230 https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/2251) had 30% of Germans as Roman Catholic and 24% as Protestant. The fact northern Germans are less religious than southern Catholic Bavarians has ensured that Germany has a Roman Catholic plurality for the first time since the Reformation.

    As for non believers, only the Netherlands of Eurozone nations has more non believers than Roman Catholics and Protestants combined, so you are not correct on that
    Don't you think that adding together Roman Catholics and Protestants is just a teensy weensy bit moving the goalposts?

    No, we are all Christians.

    However still does not change the fact the vast majority of Eurozone nations have more Roman Catholics than Protestants, while most non Eurozone European nations except Poland have more Protestants than Roman Catholics
    Less than a quarter of Sweden's population believe in God.

    https://www.taurillon.org/belonging-without-believing-cultural-religion-in-secular-sweden?lang=fr

    Once a country with a majority Christian population, Scotland is now a nation where most people see no evidence for a God, do not pray and do not identify with any religion.

    https://www.humanism.scot/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Beliefs-in-Scotland-e2018.pdf

    If I were unfortunate enough to live in Scotland, or Sweden - the first the most depressing country on earth, the second the dreariest - I too would see "no evidence for a God", certainly not a benign one
    Come toke your joints on the hot, smooth rocks by the Kattegat Sean. Peruse the archipelagos. Admire the astonishing local talent. Dip your teensy-weeny feet in our surprisingly warm sea. Eat the finest seafood on the planet. Enjoy the space and the light and the forests and the freedom and the company of thoughtful, inquisitive minds.

    We are as close to divinity as any other place on earth.
    In summer.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,314

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @HYUFD

    I note for Germany, you quote Lutheran. Does that include all Protestant denominations, or is it really just Lutheran?

    Also... The reality is that on your numbers, almost every country in the eurozone is dominated by non believers.

    There are more Roman Catholics than all Protestant denominations in Germany now (non Lutheran Protestants insignificant).

    A 2019 Euro barometer survey (p229-230 https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/2251) had 30% of Germans as Roman Catholic and 24% as Protestant. The fact northern Germans are less religious than southern Catholic Bavarians has ensured that Germany has a Roman Catholic plurality for the first time since the Reformation.

    As for non believers, only the Netherlands of Eurozone nations has more non believers than Roman Catholics and Protestants combined, so you are not correct on that
    Don't you think that adding together Roman Catholics and Protestants is just a teensy weensy bit moving the goalposts?

    No, we are all Christians.

    However still does not change the fact the vast majority of Eurozone nations have more Roman Catholics than Protestants, while most non Eurozone European nations except Poland have more Protestants than Roman Catholics
    Less than a quarter of Sweden's population believe in God.

    https://www.taurillon.org/belonging-without-believing-cultural-religion-in-secular-sweden?lang=fr

    Once a country with a majority Christian population, Scotland is now a nation where most people see no evidence for a God, do not pray and do not identify with any religion.

    https://www.humanism.scot/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Beliefs-in-Scotland-e2018.pdf

    If I were unfortunate enough to live in Scotland, or Sweden - the first the most depressing country on earth, the second the dreariest - I too would see "no evidence for a God", certainly not a benign one
    Come toke your joints on the hot, smooth rocks by the Kattegat Sean. Peruse the archipelagos. Admire the astonishing local talent. Dip your teensy-weeny feet in our surprisingly warm sea. Eat the finest seafood on the planet. Enjoy the space and the light and the forests and the freedom and the company of thoughtful, inquisitive minds.

    We are as close to divinity as any other place on earth.
    Sean might like it, I didn't, and I travelled around widely

    Boring place with trivial countryside and some pleasant but overly introverted people. The racial tension in Malmo is disturbing

    Lund is meant to be a party town. lol

    I did like some of the seafood tho. I'll grant you that. Otherwise: I would only go back if paid

  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I've missed whether anyone has made these obvious points while I've been away.

    Pop music has definitely, overall, got worse since its peak in the 60s/70s/80s/90s/00s, depending on your POV

    There is a lot more shit music being made now than ever before

    But there's also more good music being made, even if it has become harder to make the "iconic" music that we seem to have loads of from the past

    And it's now happening all over the world. I don't know if anyone listened to my recommendation from yesterday - Monsieur Periné - a Columbian band who have in one day become my favourite foreign language band of all time. They do songs in Spanish and French

    I urge you all to put this on right now and turn it right up

    If you know a better band not singing in English please do let me know

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGL-eQAAxGs

    That's rather charming

    Some of the best pop music is definitely non-English speaking. A PB-er once linked to a brilliant Lebanese jazz-metal band (IIRC) and it was great - frustratingly I forget the name

    Also check The Hu from Mongolia, in one of the most brilliantly ridiculous videos ever made. Heavy metal nose flutes!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM8dCGIm6yc

    The Hu are awesome. They are also touring the UK in early December.

    Not sure about Lebanese Jazz but I have in the past shouted on here about a Lebanese rock band called The Wanton Bishops.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwV5LfxFMxU
    That's it. Cracking song. Now in my itunes library

    GRATITUDE
    I switched to Monsieur Periné, after about two solid hours of exquisite early 70s Van Morrison, and I did not regret the switch. Me like.
  • Leon said:

    I've missed whether anyone has made these obvious points while I've been away.

    Pop music has definitely, overall, got worse since its peak in the 60s/70s/80s/90s/00s, depending on your POV

    There is a lot more shit music being made now than ever before

    But there's also more good music being made, even if it has become harder to make the "iconic" music that we seem to have loads of from the past

    And it's now happening all over the world. I don't know if anyone listened to my recommendation from yesterday - Monsieur Periné - a Columbian band who have in one day become my favourite foreign language band of all time. They do songs in Spanish and French

    I urge you all to put this on right now and turn it right up

    If you know a better band not singing in English please do let me know

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGL-eQAAxGs

    That's rather charming

    Some of the best pop music is definitely non-English speaking. A PB-er once linked to a brilliant Lebanese jazz-metal band (IIRC) and it was great - frustratingly I forget the name

    Also check The Hu from Mongolia, in one of the most brilliantly ridiculous videos ever made. Heavy metal nose flutes!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM8dCGIm6yc

    The Hu are awesome. They are also touring the UK in early December.

    Not sure about Lebanese Jazz but I have in the past shouted on here about a Lebanese rock band called The Wanton Bishops.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwV5LfxFMxU
    I may be mis-remembering, but I'm sure that in my youth, every summer had a foreign-language Europop song that made it big. Falco, Vanessa Paradis, Desireless, et cetera. Smash Hits magazine used to take the mickey out of translating their lyrics, petering out into

    my aunt became a taxi,
    my German never was any good,
    sorry about that.


    Did they just stop happening, and did it matter?
    The most recent I remember of that ilk was Las Ketchup from 2002.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMT698ArSfQ

    I put this link up for public information. I am NOT suggesting anyone actually watch it. Or if you do then it is far better with the sound muted. :)
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,851
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Back to SKS is crap then.

    So who would do better with polling evidence please

    Its not that he is crap, its that he seems uninspiring. The swings at by elections have been tepid, wakefield wasnt impressive given the circumstances, nothing like the LD swings. Similarly in local by elections its all very tepid from a labour perspective, theres no 'oomph' behind him. People are reluctant to conclude Labour are ready for government.
    They are getting there, yes, but its torturous progress.
    The electorate want someone/something to believe in. I don't get the sense many can be arsed to believe in SKS,
    I was chatting to a left-leaning political friend at the weekend and he was saying the usual 'Keir is aiming for the competent bank manager' image. And I had to admit that when I thought of Keir literally *nothing* comes to mind. Not 'bank manager', not 'competent', not even 'boring'. Just... nothing.
    Yes i'd agree. A void. So, i guess avoid.
    No, he was brilliantly summarised in that essay I linked to, a few days ago


    "I hate him aesthetically. I hate his fussy little too-perfect just-shy-of-Nazi-officer haircut; hate his “Prime Minister from central casting” face, which initially seemed designed by committee, but increasingly suffers from having an expression slapped on it like he's desperately trying to explain away his role in a sex scandal at the dog pound he runs; hate his pedantic voice, which makes everything he says sound like an HR meeting you don't really need to be at."

    The last line in particular is genius

    https://www.gawker.com/politics/i-hate-keir-starmer
    I think that assigns him a relevance and presence he simply doesnt have.
    He is that picture in Hartlepool. Ignored, ridiculous, a political non entity.
    Some apparent desperation to rubbish Starmer, tonight.
    If he’s that bad, it would seem a serious waste of effort.
    Its a thread about the preferred PM polling. Be a bit odd to talk about Starmers tepid figures by bigging him up as the Universe Boss.
    I also said there was nothing exciting or inspiring in uk politics right now, so im not that desperate, more despairing.
  • On topic, even Gordon Brown and Theresa May got bounces in the run up to taking power and shortly thereafter.

    Keep calm and review these numbers when the price cap goes north of £5,000 and the inflation is running rampant.
  • I love musicals, it was Grease that first got me hooked on musicals, thank you Olivia Newton John.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Back to SKS is crap then.

    So who would do better with polling evidence please

    Its not that he is crap, its that he seems uninspiring. The swings at by elections have been tepid, wakefield wasnt impressive given the circumstances, nothing like the LD swings. Similarly in local by elections its all very tepid from a labour perspective, theres no 'oomph' behind him. People are reluctant to conclude Labour are ready for government.
    They are getting there, yes, but its torturous progress.
    The electorate want someone/something to believe in. I don't get the sense many can be arsed to believe in SKS,
    I was chatting to a left-leaning political friend at the weekend and he was saying the usual 'Keir is aiming for the competent bank manager' image. And I had to admit that when I thought of Keir literally *nothing* comes to mind. Not 'bank manager', not 'competent', not even 'boring'. Just... nothing.
    Yes i'd agree. A void. So, i guess avoid.
    No, he was brilliantly summarised in that essay I linked to, a few days ago


    "I hate him aesthetically. I hate his fussy little too-perfect just-shy-of-Nazi-officer haircut; hate his “Prime Minister from central casting” face, which initially seemed designed by committee, but increasingly suffers from having an expression slapped on it like he's desperately trying to explain away his role in a sex scandal at the dog pound he runs; hate his pedantic voice, which makes everything he says sound like an HR meeting you don't really need to be at."

    The last line in particular is genius

    https://www.gawker.com/politics/i-hate-keir-starmer
    I think that assigns him a relevance and presence he simply doesnt have.
    He is that picture in Hartlepool. Ignored, ridiculous, a political non entity.
    Some apparent desperation to rubbish Starmer, tonight.
    If he’s that bad, it would seem a serious waste of effort.
    No, because we are here to sound off at length to a captive (absent an "ignore" button on the site) audience, not to secure outcomes. That article is fucking hilarious and absolutely true.

    "I hate the way that Starmer poses as an honest man, spending the last few years posturing as the grown-up against the much more openly clownish Boris Johnson, constantly putting Johnson’s handling of the pandemic “on notice” before voting for whatever plans his government brought to the Commons anyway, making noises about “restoring the public's faith in politicians,” before casually breaking every pledge he made to the Labour membership before they elected him leader. I hate that he's a liar, and that he's not even good at it."

    Look how fucking useless he is. Meant to be a skilled prosecutor, gets the biggest break in political history in having an opponent who turns out to be prosecutable, and still fucks up. Unreal.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,098

    Commonwealth closing ceremony on BBC1 right now!

    I’ve actually managed to miss the entire thing. Not seen even a clip.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,162

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    YouGov, the only pollster to correctly weigh geographical sub-samples, also show that Keir Starmer is a dud. Back down to 3rd place in Scotland = no cigars.

    London
    Lab 42%
    Con 28%
    LD 15%
    Grn 10%
    Ref 2%

    Rest of South
    Con 41%
    Lab 32%
    LD 14%
    Grn 8%
    Ref 3%

    Midlands and Wales
    Lab 40%
    Con 34%
    LD 9%
    PC 6%
    Grn 6%
    Ref 4%

    North
    Lab 47%
    Con 29%
    Grn 9%
    LD 8%
    Ref 5%

    Scotland
    SNP 51%
    Con 22%
    Lab 16%
    LD 5%
    Grn 4%
    Ref 1%

    (YouGov / The Times; Sample Size: 1,968; Fieldwork: 4th - 5th August 2022)

    Pro-independence parties 55%
    Unionist parties 44%

    It doesn't matter if the SNP are on 99%, Truss has made clear she will not allow any indyref2 on her watch. As the future of the union is reserved to Westminster and the UK government under the Scotland Act 1998 nothing the SNP can do about it.

    In fact logically it is better for the SNP to lose seats in Scotland but hold the balance of power in a hung parliament at Westminster than for the SNP to gain seats in Scotland and increase their number of MPs there but for either the Tories to win another majority or Labour to win most seats and have either a majority or enough seats to have a majority with the LDs
    The SCons being second in a sub sample has evidently loosened your grip on the English language.
    At least one Tory isn’t ruling out the possibility of an indyref2.


    Chortle.

    The fight is on to lead BetterTogether2. The campaign that is going to win a referendum that is never going to happen.

    I hear that former Tory MSP (1999-2016) Mary Scanlon was ripping her hair out live on GMS. Shame I missed it. Did you catch it?
    Is this it? Different Tory on GMS though.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/20594201.former-tory-msp-says-liz-truss-lost-vote-inappropriate-nicola-sturgeon-dig/

    BTW did you see Partick T have put up signs in the Gàidhlig as well as English? Quite appropriate for the area, but it's upset some folk.
    Virtually every Scotrail station has a Gaelic version of the station name along with the "English" name.

    You probably know that, but the Gaelic actually means Mouth of the [River] Thurso. You probably also spotted Dingwall = Inbhir Pheofharain = Mouth of the Peffery (which as sometimes with Gaelic town names makes better sense of the local topography, as might be expected).
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,632

    If the Tories lose Mid Beds I will eat a pineapple pizza on Christmas Eve whilst watching Die Hard.

    https://blog.finaldraft.com/steven-e-de-souza-die-hard-is-a-christmas-movie

    "Die Hard is a Christmas movie, full stop.

    "Steven E. de Souza, who penned the film’s script more than 30 years ago, is adamant about that."
    In my house it’s not Christmas until Bruce Willis drops Snape off Nakatomi Towers.

    “Game over, man” as the great philosopher Hicks opined….
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 2,705

    Leon said:

    I've missed whether anyone has made these obvious points while I've been away.

    Pop music has definitely, overall, got worse since its peak in the 60s/70s/80s/90s/00s, depending on your POV

    There is a lot more shit music being made now than ever before

    But there's also more good music being made, even if it has become harder to make the "iconic" music that we seem to have loads of from the past

    And it's now happening all over the world. I don't know if anyone listened to my recommendation from yesterday - Monsieur Periné - a Columbian band who have in one day become my favourite foreign language band of all time. They do songs in Spanish and French

    I urge you all to put this on right now and turn it right up

    If you know a better band not singing in English please do let me know

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGL-eQAAxGs

    That's rather charming

    Some of the best pop music is definitely non-English speaking. A PB-er once linked to a brilliant Lebanese jazz-metal band (IIRC) and it was great - frustratingly I forget the name

    Also check The Hu from Mongolia, in one of the most brilliantly ridiculous videos ever made. Heavy metal nose flutes!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM8dCGIm6yc

    The Hu are awesome. They are also touring the UK in early December.

    Not sure about Lebanese Jazz but I have in the past shouted on here about a Lebanese rock band called The Wanton Bishops.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwV5LfxFMxU
    I may be mis-remembering, but I'm sure that in my youth, every summer had a foreign-language Europop song that made it big. Falco, Vanessa Paradis, Desireless, et cetera. Smash Hits magazine used to take the mickey out of translating their lyrics, petering out into

    my aunt became a taxi,
    my German never was any good,
    sorry about that.


    Did they just stop happening, and did it matter?
    The most recent I remember of that ilk was Las Ketchup from 2002.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMT698ArSfQ

    I put this link up for public information. I am NOT suggesting anyone actually watch it. Or if you do then it is far better with the sound muted. :)
    If asked nicely I could still sing, verbatim, Dominique by The Singing Nun. It isn't every year we get a chart-topping French song about the Albigensian heresy.
  • If the Tories lose Mid Beds I will eat a pineapple pizza on Christmas Eve whilst watching Die Hard.

    https://blog.finaldraft.com/steven-e-de-souza-die-hard-is-a-christmas-movie

    "Die Hard is a Christmas movie, full stop.

    "Steven E. de Souza, who penned the film’s script more than 30 years ago, is adamant about that."
    In my house it’s not Christmas until Bruce Willis drops Snape off Nakatomi Towers.

    “Game over, man” as the great philosopher Hicks opined….
    "Hudson, sir. He's Hicks!"
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,704
    IanB2 said:

    Commonwealth closing ceremony on BBC1 right now!

    I’ve actually managed to miss the entire thing. Not seen even a clip.
    I saw the Indian v England womens T20 and a bit of the opening ceremony which was a bit meh.

    Can’t say I’ll miss it and the usual patriotic nonsense.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Leon said:

    I've missed whether anyone has made these obvious points while I've been away.

    Pop music has definitely, overall, got worse since its peak in the 60s/70s/80s/90s/00s, depending on your POV

    There is a lot more shit music being made now than ever before

    But there's also more good music being made, even if it has become harder to make the "iconic" music that we seem to have loads of from the past

    And it's now happening all over the world. I don't know if anyone listened to my recommendation from yesterday - Monsieur Periné - a Columbian band who have in one day become my favourite foreign language band of all time. They do songs in Spanish and French

    I urge you all to put this on right now and turn it right up

    If you know a better band not singing in English please do let me know

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGL-eQAAxGs

    That's rather charming

    Some of the best pop music is definitely non-English speaking. A PB-er once linked to a brilliant Lebanese jazz-metal band (IIRC) and it was great - frustratingly I forget the name

    Also check The Hu from Mongolia, in one of the most brilliantly ridiculous videos ever made. Heavy metal nose flutes!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM8dCGIm6yc

    The Hu are awesome. They are also touring the UK in early December.

    Not sure about Lebanese Jazz but I have in the past shouted on here about a Lebanese rock band called The Wanton Bishops.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwV5LfxFMxU
    I may be mis-remembering, but I'm sure that in my youth, every summer had a foreign-language Europop song that made it big. Falco, Vanessa Paradis, Desireless, et cetera. Smash Hits magazine used to take the mickey out of translating their lyrics, petering out into

    my aunt became a taxi,
    my German never was any good,
    sorry about that.


    Did they just stop happening, and did it matter?
    The most recent I remember of that ilk was Las Ketchup from 2002.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMT698ArSfQ

    I put this link up for public information. I am NOT suggesting anyone actually watch it. Or if you do then it is far better with the sound muted. :)
    If asked nicely I could still sing, verbatim, Dominique by The Singing Nun. It isn't every year we get a chart-topping French song about the Albigensian heresy.
    Chanson d’amour.

    Cannae beat it.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    If the Tories lose Mid Beds I will eat a pineapple pizza on Christmas Eve whilst watching Die Hard.

    https://blog.finaldraft.com/steven-e-de-souza-die-hard-is-a-christmas-movie

    "Die Hard is a Christmas movie, full stop.

    "Steven E. de Souza, who penned the film’s script more than 30 years ago, is adamant about that."
    In my house it’s not Christmas until Bruce Willis drops Snape off Nakatomi Towers.

    “Game over, man” as the great philosopher Hicks opined….
    "Hudson, sir. He's Hicks!"
    What's your question, Sunil?
  • On topic, even Gordon Brown and Theresa May got bounces in the run up to taking power and shortly thereafter.

    Keep calm and review these numbers when the price cap goes north of £5,000 and the inflation is running rampant.

    This is what you get when you let public schoolboys run the country...
  • On topic, even Gordon Brown and Theresa May got bounces in the run up to taking power and shortly thereafter.

    Keep calm and review these numbers when the price cap goes north of £5,000 and the inflation is running rampant.

    This is what you get when you let public schoolboys run the country...
    Liz, like myself, is a working class Yorkshire person.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,100
    edited August 2022
    In other news, Octopus Energy doing interesting things experimenting with paying the wholesale electricity price for exported units. This is called I think the Agile Export tariff, which is repriced every half-hour.

    That looks like a tentative step towards a freer-market version of a Smart grid.

    From an acquaintance: "Snapshot of my PV price":


    Source: https://forum.buildhub.org.uk/topic/28392-my-air-source/page/5/#comment-427036

    (Background: my PV exports around 6000 units a year - 6MWh - but I think if I went for the above tariff I would lose my 20 year index-linked guarantee, which finishes in about 2035.)
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,153

    On topic, even Gordon Brown and Theresa May got bounces in the run up to taking power and shortly thereafter.

    Keep calm and review these numbers when the price cap goes north of £5,000 and the inflation is running rampant.

    I expect Truss will be shit on a election campaign as well.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    HYUFD said:

    YouGov, the only pollster to correctly weigh geographical sub-samples, also show that Keir Starmer is a dud. Back down to 3rd place in Scotland = no cigars.

    London
    Lab 42%
    Con 28%
    LD 15%
    Grn 10%
    Ref 2%

    Rest of South
    Con 41%
    Lab 32%
    LD 14%
    Grn 8%
    Ref 3%

    Midlands and Wales
    Lab 40%
    Con 34%
    LD 9%
    PC 6%
    Grn 6%
    Ref 4%

    North
    Lab 47%
    Con 29%
    Grn 9%
    LD 8%
    Ref 5%

    Scotland
    SNP 51%
    Con 22%
    Lab 16%
    LD 5%
    Grn 4%
    Ref 1%

    (YouGov / The Times; Sample Size: 1,968; Fieldwork: 4th - 5th August 2022)

    Pro-independence parties 55%
    Unionist parties 44%

    It doesn't matter if the SNP are on 99%, Truss has made clear she will not allow any indyref2 on her watch. As the future of the union is reserved to Westminster and the UK government under the Scotland Act 1998 nothing the SNP can do about it.

    In fact logically it is better for the SNP to lose seats in Scotland but hold the balance of power in a hung parliament at Westminster than for the SNP to gain seats in Scotland and increase their number of MPs there but for either the Tories to win another majority or Labour to win most seats and have either a majority or enough seats to have a majority with the LDs
    If and when support reaches 99% (Norway, 1905 levels) the least of your worries will be “the SNP”.
  • This whole discussion (and many more) was brought about by one catalyst.

    It amazes me that quietly sleeping in the depths is the Hon. Chris Pincher, wherefrom the PM was fatally struck. No speculation of a by-election in his seat...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,632

    If the Tories lose Mid Beds I will eat a pineapple pizza on Christmas Eve whilst watching Die Hard.

    https://blog.finaldraft.com/steven-e-de-souza-die-hard-is-a-christmas-movie

    "Die Hard is a Christmas movie, full stop.

    "Steven E. de Souza, who penned the film’s script more than 30 years ago, is adamant about that."
    In my house it’s not Christmas until Bruce Willis drops Snape off Nakatomi Towers.

    “Game over, man” as the great philosopher Hicks opined….
    "Hudson, sir. He's Hicks!"
    Look into my EYE!

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,287
    I wonder if Keir Starmer might be replaced as leader before the next election if he goes behind in the polls.
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,704

    On topic, even Gordon Brown and Theresa May got bounces in the run up to taking power and shortly thereafter.

    Keep calm and review these numbers when the price cap goes north of £5,000 and the inflation is running rampant.

    I expect Truss will be shit on a election campaign as well.
    With Starmer and Davey too. It’s going to be dull, dull, dull.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,851
    edited August 2022
    Taz said:

    IanB2 said:

    Commonwealth closing ceremony on BBC1 right now!

    I’ve actually managed to miss the entire thing. Not seen even a clip.
    I saw the Indian v England womens T20 and a bit of the opening ceremony which was a bit meh.

    Can’t say I’ll miss it and the usual patriotic nonsense.
    The Commonwealth Games having lawn bowls is its redeeming feature. But the Chess Olympiad has been on, the CG can do one
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    On topic, even Gordon Brown and Theresa May got bounces in the run up to taking power and shortly thereafter.

    Keep calm and review these numbers when the price cap goes north of £5,000 and the inflation is running rampant.

    This is what you get when you let public schoolboys run the country...
    Liz, like myself, is a working class Yorkshire person.
    Ah, so that's the problem.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,865
    Nigelb said:

    Detailed thread on the Democrat’s bill.

    https://twitter.com/monsieurmoscato/status/1556380832415334402
    I read through 700+ pages of the July version of the Inflation Reduction Act so that you don't have to. Long thread

    The 1% tax on company share buybacks is an interesting wrinkle, which should raise significant revenue.

    Great to see a USP focusing on stuff like this rather than building border walls and generally stirring up shit.
  • I think this guy is the closest I've heard to a male Amy

    St Paul and the Broken Bones

    Does anyone know better white soul since Amy?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vpXX5BjltM
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,704

    This whole discussion (and many more) was brought about by one catalyst.

    It amazes me that quietly sleeping in the depths is the Hon. Chris Pincher, wherefrom the PM was fatally struck. No speculation of a by-election in his seat...

    No, but he will be quietly moved aside in time for the next general election.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,632
    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Back to SKS is crap then.

    So who would do better with polling evidence please

    Its not that he is crap, its that he seems uninspiring. The swings at by elections have been tepid, wakefield wasnt impressive given the circumstances, nothing like the LD swings. Similarly in local by elections its all very tepid from a labour perspective, theres no 'oomph' behind him. People are reluctant to conclude Labour are ready for government.
    They are getting there, yes, but its torturous progress.
    The electorate want someone/something to believe in. I don't get the sense many can be arsed to believe in SKS,
    I was chatting to a left-leaning political friend at the weekend and he was saying the usual 'Keir is aiming for the competent bank manager' image. And I had to admit that when I thought of Keir literally *nothing* comes to mind. Not 'bank manager', not 'competent', not even 'boring'. Just... nothing.
    Yes i'd agree. A void. So, i guess avoid.
    No, he was brilliantly summarised in that essay I linked to, a few days ago


    "I hate him aesthetically. I hate his fussy little too-perfect just-shy-of-Nazi-officer haircut; hate his “Prime Minister from central casting” face, which initially seemed designed by committee, but increasingly suffers from having an expression slapped on it like he's desperately trying to explain away his role in a sex scandal at the dog pound he runs; hate his pedantic voice, which makes everything he says sound like an HR meeting you don't really need to be at."

    The last line in particular is genius

    https://www.gawker.com/politics/i-hate-keir-starmer
    I think that assigns him a relevance and presence he simply doesnt have.
    He is that picture in Hartlepool. Ignored, ridiculous, a political non entity.
    Some apparent desperation to rubbish Starmer, tonight.
    If he’s that bad, it would seem a serious waste of effort.
    No, because we are here to sound off at length to a captive (absent an "ignore" button on the site) audience, not to secure outcomes. That article is fucking hilarious and absolutely true.

    "I hate the way that Starmer poses as an honest man, spending the last few years posturing as the grown-up against the much more openly clownish Boris Johnson, constantly putting Johnson’s handling of the pandemic “on notice” before voting for whatever plans his government brought to the Commons anyway, making noises about “restoring the public's faith in politicians,” before casually breaking every pledge he made to the Labour membership before they elected him leader. I hate that he's a liar, and that he's not even good at it."

    Look how fucking useless he is. Meant to be a skilled prosecutor, gets the biggest break in political history in having an opponent who turns out to be prosecutable, and still fucks up. Unreal.
    Yes. Missing on a penalty shoot out is one thing. Not actually kicking the ball at a net the size of Berlin is something else again. Not even trying….
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,100
    edited August 2022
    ..
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,591
    Confirmation of the HARM missiles.
    Useful contribution to the degradation of Russian capabilities.

    https://twitter.com/OstapYarysh/status/1556696165760081926
    Under Secretary of Defense Colin Kahl: In recent packages for #Ukraine we've included a number of anti-radiation missiles that can be fired off Ukrainian aircraft.
  • Taz said:

    On topic, even Gordon Brown and Theresa May got bounces in the run up to taking power and shortly thereafter.

    Keep calm and review these numbers when the price cap goes north of £5,000 and the inflation is running rampant.

    I expect Truss will be shit on a election campaign as well.
    With Starmer and Davey too. It’s going to be dull, dull, dull.
    Good.

    We're never going on a bear hunt again.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,851
    Andy_JS said:

    I wonder if Keir Starmer might be replaced as leader before the next election if he goes behind in the polls.

    I can't see Starmer losing a challenge if one occurs. It could be damaging to Labour though as unlike the Tories it would be leader versus challenger(s) rather than new blood vs new blood. If a big 'player' like Nandy, Streeting or Rayner went up against him it could get messy, fast.
    But i think its very unlikely. Starmer quitting more likely but still unlikely
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,842
    Andy_JS said:

    I wonder if Keir Starmer might be replaced as leader before the next election if he goes behind in the polls.

    Depends for how long and by how much.
    And, of course, it actually happening. Too late for Conference this year. Remember. It takes 20% of MP's to agree on a specific challenger.
    Those best PM figures don't suggest a wave of enthusiasm for the next incumbent.
  • I think this guy is the closest I've heard to a male Amy

    St Paul and the Broken Bones

    Does anyone know better white soul since Amy?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vpXX5BjltM

    Oh that is fantastic.

    Reminds me a lot of the much underrated Terence Trent D'Arby.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719
    Andy_JS said:

    I wonder if Keir Starmer might be replaced as leader before the next election if he goes behind in the polls.

    Was Cameron replaced when he went behind Brown in the polls in 2007 or Kinnock replaced when he went behind Major in the polls in 1990? No. Plus you need 20% of Labour MPs to back a challenger, more even than the 15% of Tory MPs needed for a VONC
This discussion has been closed.