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Truss beating Starmer as “Better PM” – politicalbetting.com

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  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,946

    HYUFD said:

    YouGov, the only pollster to correctly weigh geographical sub-samples, also show that Keir Starmer is a dud. Back down to 3rd place in Scotland = no cigars.

    London
    Lab 42%
    Con 28%
    LD 15%
    Grn 10%
    Ref 2%

    Rest of South
    Con 41%
    Lab 32%
    LD 14%
    Grn 8%
    Ref 3%

    Midlands and Wales
    Lab 40%
    Con 34%
    LD 9%
    PC 6%
    Grn 6%
    Ref 4%

    North
    Lab 47%
    Con 29%
    Grn 9%
    LD 8%
    Ref 5%

    Scotland
    SNP 51%
    Con 22%
    Lab 16%
    LD 5%
    Grn 4%
    Ref 1%

    (YouGov / The Times; Sample Size: 1,968; Fieldwork: 4th - 5th August 2022)

    Pro-independence parties 55%
    Unionist parties 44%

    It doesn't matter if the SNP are on 99%, Truss has made clear she will not allow any indyref2 on her watch. As the future of the union is reserved to Westminster and the UK government under the Scotland Act 1998 nothing the SNP can do about it.

    In fact logically it is better for the SNP to lose seats in Scotland but hold the balance of power in a hung parliament at Westminster than for the SNP to gain seats in Scotland and increase their number of MPs there but for either the Tories to win another majority or Labour to win most seats and have either a majority or enough seats to have a majority with the LDs
    If and when support reaches 99% (Norway, 1905 levels) the least of your worries will be “the SNP”.
    Legally however the future of the union would still remain with Westminster, even if practically it might be a bit more difficult
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,904

    This whole discussion (and many more) was brought about by one catalyst.

    It amazes me that quietly sleeping in the depths is the Hon. Chris Pincher, wherefrom the PM was fatally struck. No speculation of a by-election in his seat...

    Well, if the Tories are going to have a byelection because of Man Nad, they might as well go for a clean sweep, dispose of all the soiled goods and have simultaneous byelections in Somerton & Frome, Windsor and all the rest. With so many winnable seats all up at once, the Lib Dems might feel a bit stretched.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I wonder if Keir Starmer might be replaced as leader before the next election if he goes behind in the polls.

    Was Cameron replaced when he went behind Brown in the polls in 2007 or Kinnock replaced when he went behind Major in the polls in 1990? No. Plus you need 20% of Labour MPs to back a challenger, more even than the 15% of Tory MPs needed for a VONC
    Yes you’re right. Starmerama won’t be be replaced until he does his Ed Miliband tribute act in 2024.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I wonder if Keir Starmer might be replaced as leader before the next election if he goes behind in the polls.

    Was Cameron replaced when he went behind Brown in the polls in 2007 or Kinnock replaced when he went behind Major in the polls in 1990? No. Plus you need 20% of Labour MPs to back a challenger, more even than the 15% of Tory MPs needed for a VONC
    15% to call a VONC. If 20% nominate a challenger then there is automatically an election.

    But I can't see it happening. Quite apart from the fact Labour didn't even get rid of Corbyn and have, among some pretty awful dross, not sacked a leader against the said leader's will since Lansbury in 1935, there's no obvious standout who would be better and no consensus in the party on a reason to change leader.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,072
    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Detailed thread on the Democrat’s bill.

    https://twitter.com/monsieurmoscato/status/1556380832415334402
    I read through 700+ pages of the July version of the Inflation Reduction Act so that you don't have to. Long thread

    The 1% tax on company share buybacks is an interesting wrinkle, which should raise significant revenue.

    Great to see a USP focusing on stuff like this rather than building border walls and generally stirring up shit.
    The other under-appreciated point is a big increase in funding for the poorly resourced IRS.
    I’d be interested in @rcs1000 ’s take.
  • HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I wonder if Keir Starmer might be replaced as leader before the next election if he goes behind in the polls.

    Was Cameron replaced when he went behind Brown in the polls in 2007 or Kinnock replaced when he went behind Major in the polls in 1990? No. Plus you need 20% of Labour MPs to back a challenger, more even than the 15% of Tory MPs needed for a VONC
    Yup. A fair bit of whinging- which will have the effect of making life a bit easier for the Conservative Prime Minister. But beyond that? Doubtful. For starters, Andy Burnham isn't even an MP.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    ClippP said:

    This whole discussion (and many more) was brought about by one catalyst.

    It amazes me that quietly sleeping in the depths is the Hon. Chris Pincher, wherefrom the PM was fatally struck. No speculation of a by-election in his seat...

    Well, if the Tories are going to have a byelection because of Man Nad, they might as well go for a clean sweep, dispose of all the soiled goods and have simultaneous byelections in Somerton & Frome, Windsor and all the rest. With so many winnable seats all up at once, the Lib Dems might feel a bit stretched.
    Hmmm. Nad is in cabinet. “Stepping down”. Old enough to be anyones “mum”. Is she Mrs Finland? Can’t see what she’d have done that would be game changing for British politics mind.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I wonder if Keir Starmer might be replaced as leader before the next election if he goes behind in the polls.

    Was Cameron replaced when he went behind Brown in the polls in 2007 or Kinnock replaced when he went behind Major in the polls in 1990? No. Plus you need 20% of Labour MPs to back a challenger, more even than the 15% of Tory MPs needed for a VONC
    There is also the small matter of him actually falling behind.
    Maybe he will, as seems to be expected by most. But then there'll need to be an immediate emergency Budget. And folk will be getting their winter bills.
    Tories need to pray for a mild winter.
    78-9 was one of the 5 coldest of the Century.
    A bad one (which we are overdue) could finish it before it gets started.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,072
    A few good replies to this.
    Anyone got any to add ?

    https://twitter.com/patrickc/status/1556714547406204928
    Read Kissinger's *Leadership* over the weekend. Despite generic title, found it surprisingly interesting -- personal reflections on 6 politicians. But main thing that struck me is that it's a very good book by a 99-year-old. Are there other examples from people aged, say, >95?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    I think this guy is the closest I've heard to a male Amy

    St Paul and the Broken Bones

    Does anyone know better white soul since Amy?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vpXX5BjltM

    Oh that is fantastic.

    Reminds me a lot of the much underrated Terence Trent D'Arby.
    Artist formerly known as Terence Trent D'Arby, he is Sananda Maitreya these days

    sign your name is fantastic, but doesn't sound much like St Paul to me
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I wonder if Keir Starmer might be replaced as leader before the next election if he goes behind in the polls.

    Was Cameron replaced when he went behind Brown in the polls in 2007 or Kinnock replaced when he went behind Major in the polls in 1990? No. Plus you need 20% of Labour MPs to back a challenger, more even than the 15% of Tory MPs needed for a VONC
    There is also the small matter of him actually falling behind.
    Maybe he will, as seems to be expected by most. But then there'll need to be an immediate emergency Budget. And folk will be getting their winter bills.
    Tories need to pray for a mild winter.
    78-9 was one of the 5 coldest of the Century.
    A bad one (which we are overdue) could finish it before it gets started.
    Positively, Germany’s gas reserves are now looking ok. Which means there will be less pressure on Norway to divert gas supplies to Europe and an easier LNG market.

    I see Cabinet has taken up my suggestion from many many weeks ago that hospitals should be told to ensure working generators and stocks of diesel. A shame we don’t have a chancellor at the moment to sign off on the mass procurement of generators for schools.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,658
    edited August 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    I wonder if Keir Starmer might be replaced as leader before the next election if he goes behind in the polls.

    I would be quite happy if he were, but I think the only way is resignation, which Starmer might do in the interests of the party, but no indication of that being on the cards.

    Labour is very poor at coups against leaders, and the barriers are very high. I just cannot see it this side of a GE.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited August 2022
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I wonder if Keir Starmer might be replaced as leader before the next election if he goes behind in the polls.

    Was Cameron replaced when he went behind Brown in the polls in 2007 or Kinnock replaced when he went behind Major in the polls in 1990? No. Plus you need 20% of Labour MPs to back a challenger, more even than the 15% of Tory MPs needed for a VONC
    There is also the small matter of him actually falling behind.
    Maybe he will, as seems to be expected by most. But then there'll need to be an immediate emergency Budget. And folk will be getting their winter bills.
    Tories need to pray for a mild winter.
    78-9 was one of the 5 coldest of the Century.
    A bad one (which we are overdue) could finish it before it gets started.
    The Tories will need an effective framing narrative for the economic crisis, make it something done to us that they can solve. A Bullshit narrative, just like Browns 'it started in America' bullshit narrative.
    They need to be nurse so the electorate can cling to them.
    Not an easy lie to seed. Best start yesterday,
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    IshmaelZ said:

    I think this guy is the closest I've heard to a male Amy

    St Paul and the Broken Bones

    Does anyone know better white soul since Amy?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vpXX5BjltM

    Oh that is fantastic.

    Reminds me a lot of the much underrated Terence Trent D'Arby.
    Artist formerly known as Terence Trent D'Arby, he is Sananda Maitreya these days

    sign your name is fantastic, but doesn't sound much like St Paul to me
    Cripes he's 60. Madonna 63.
    Not just me getting old then.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    edited August 2022
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    YouGov, the only pollster to correctly weigh geographical sub-samples, also show that Keir Starmer is a dud. Back down to 3rd place in Scotland = no cigars.

    London
    Lab 42%
    Con 28%
    LD 15%
    Grn 10%
    Ref 2%

    Rest of South
    Con 41%
    Lab 32%
    LD 14%
    Grn 8%
    Ref 3%

    Midlands and Wales
    Lab 40%
    Con 34%
    LD 9%
    PC 6%
    Grn 6%
    Ref 4%

    North
    Lab 47%
    Con 29%
    Grn 9%
    LD 8%
    Ref 5%

    Scotland
    SNP 51%
    Con 22%
    Lab 16%
    LD 5%
    Grn 4%
    Ref 1%

    (YouGov / The Times; Sample Size: 1,968; Fieldwork: 4th - 5th August 2022)

    Pro-independence parties 55%
    Unionist parties 44%

    It doesn't matter if the SNP are on 99%, Truss has made clear she will not allow any indyref2 on her watch. As the future of the union is reserved to Westminster and the UK government under the Scotland Act 1998 nothing the SNP can do about it.

    In fact logically it is better for the SNP to lose seats in Scotland but hold the balance of power in a hung parliament at Westminster than for the SNP to gain seats in Scotland and increase their number of MPs there but for either the Tories to win another majority or Labour to win most seats and have either a majority or enough seats to have a majority with the LDs
    If and when support reaches 99% (Norway, 1905 levels) the least of your worries will be “the SNP”.
    Legally however the future of the union would still remain with Westminster, even if practically it might be a bit more difficult
    "practically": so you admit the principle, that a majority for independence is sufficient?

    Astonishing about-turn.

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    edited August 2022
    HYUFD: do you know if members attending the final hustings in London on 31st August will be able to hand in their ballot papers after the event without relying on posting it? Because they have to be in by 2nd September I think, and you can't rely on the post to do it in that time.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    YouGov, the only pollster to correctly weigh geographical sub-samples, also show that Keir Starmer is a dud. Back down to 3rd place in Scotland = no cigars.

    London
    Lab 42%
    Con 28%
    LD 15%
    Grn 10%
    Ref 2%

    Rest of South
    Con 41%
    Lab 32%
    LD 14%
    Grn 8%
    Ref 3%

    Midlands and Wales
    Lab 40%
    Con 34%
    LD 9%
    PC 6%
    Grn 6%
    Ref 4%

    North
    Lab 47%
    Con 29%
    Grn 9%
    LD 8%
    Ref 5%

    Scotland
    SNP 51%
    Con 22%
    Lab 16%
    LD 5%
    Grn 4%
    Ref 1%

    (YouGov / The Times; Sample Size: 1,968; Fieldwork: 4th - 5th August 2022)

    Pro-independence parties 55%
    Unionist parties 44%

    It doesn't matter if the SNP are on 99%, Truss has made clear she will not allow any indyref2 on her watch. As the future of the union is reserved to Westminster and the UK government under the Scotland Act 1998 nothing the SNP can do about it.

    In fact logically it is better for the SNP to lose seats in Scotland but hold the balance of power in a hung parliament at Westminster than for the SNP to gain seats in Scotland and increase their number of MPs there but for either the Tories to win another majority or Labour to win most seats and have either a majority or enough seats to have a majority with the LDs
    If and when support reaches 99% (Norway, 1905 levels) the least of your worries will be “the SNP”.
    Legally however the future of the union would still remain with Westminster, even if practically it might be a bit more difficult
    Practicality will be the least of your worries. Try morality.
  • ClippP said:

    This whole discussion (and many more) was brought about by one catalyst.

    It amazes me that quietly sleeping in the depths is the Hon. Chris Pincher, wherefrom the PM was fatally struck. No speculation of a by-election in his seat...

    Well, if the Tories are going to have a byelection because of Man Nad, they might as well go for a clean sweep, dispose of all the soiled goods and have simultaneous byelections in Somerton & Frome, Windsor and all the rest. With so many winnable seats all up at once, the Lib Dems might feel a bit stretched.
    All very true and it could give the new PM an opportunity to set the agenda, at least in terms of clearing the decks!
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    dixiedean said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    I think this guy is the closest I've heard to a male Amy

    St Paul and the Broken Bones

    Does anyone know better white soul since Amy?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vpXX5BjltM

    Oh that is fantastic.

    Reminds me a lot of the much underrated Terence Trent D'Arby.
    Artist formerly known as Terence Trent D'Arby, he is Sananda Maitreya these days

    sign your name is fantastic, but doesn't sound much like St Paul to me
    Cripes he's 60. Madonna 63.
    Not just me getting old then.
    He is of course a young artist who in a year or two will be approaching very early middle age, so I don't see what your point is.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    The Election of Biden was the American people's embrace of far left politics as evidenced by their election of Warnock and Ossoff to the Senate.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    ClippP said:

    This whole discussion (and many more) was brought about by one catalyst.

    It amazes me that quietly sleeping in the depths is the Hon. Chris Pincher, wherefrom the PM was fatally struck. No speculation of a by-election in his seat...

    Well, if the Tories are going to have a byelection because of Man Nad, they might as well go for a clean sweep, dispose of all the soiled goods and have simultaneous byelections in Somerton & Frome, Windsor and all the rest. With so many winnable seats all up at once, the Lib Dems might feel a bit stretched.
    By election results
    Mid Beds Con Hold
    Somerton LD Gain
    Tamworth Con Hold
    Windsor, not happening, Afriye will 'find' the funds required. Poss LD gain if fought, very close though
    Uxbridge toss up
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,946
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    YouGov, the only pollster to correctly weigh geographical sub-samples, also show that Keir Starmer is a dud. Back down to 3rd place in Scotland = no cigars.

    London
    Lab 42%
    Con 28%
    LD 15%
    Grn 10%
    Ref 2%

    Rest of South
    Con 41%
    Lab 32%
    LD 14%
    Grn 8%
    Ref 3%

    Midlands and Wales
    Lab 40%
    Con 34%
    LD 9%
    PC 6%
    Grn 6%
    Ref 4%

    North
    Lab 47%
    Con 29%
    Grn 9%
    LD 8%
    Ref 5%

    Scotland
    SNP 51%
    Con 22%
    Lab 16%
    LD 5%
    Grn 4%
    Ref 1%

    (YouGov / The Times; Sample Size: 1,968; Fieldwork: 4th - 5th August 2022)

    Pro-independence parties 55%
    Unionist parties 44%

    It doesn't matter if the SNP are on 99%, Truss has made clear she will not allow any indyref2 on her watch. As the future of the union is reserved to Westminster and the UK government under the Scotland Act 1998 nothing the SNP can do about it.

    In fact logically it is better for the SNP to lose seats in Scotland but hold the balance of power in a hung parliament at Westminster than for the SNP to gain seats in Scotland and increase their number of MPs there but for either the Tories to win another majority or Labour to win most seats and have either a majority or enough seats to have a majority with the LDs
    If and when support reaches 99% (Norway, 1905 levels) the least of your worries will be “the SNP”.
    Legally however the future of the union would still remain with Westminster, even if practically it might be a bit more difficult
    "practically": so you admit the principle, that a majority for independence is sufficient?

    Astonishing about-turn.

    No, I was talking practically in terms of ensuring law enforcement maintain Westminster's sovereignty over Scotland in the reserved areas.

    Obviously I still oppose indyref2 for a generation
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    edited August 2022

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I wonder if Keir Starmer might be replaced as leader before the next election if he goes behind in the polls.

    Was Cameron replaced when he went behind Brown in the polls in 2007 or Kinnock replaced when he went behind Major in the polls in 1990? No. Plus you need 20% of Labour MPs to back a challenger, more even than the 15% of Tory MPs needed for a VONC
    There is also the small matter of him actually falling behind.
    Maybe he will, as seems to be expected by most. But then there'll need to be an immediate emergency Budget. And folk will be getting their winter bills.
    Tories need to pray for a mild winter.
    78-9 was one of the 5 coldest of the Century.
    A bad one (which we are overdue) could finish it before it gets started.
    The Tories will need an effective framing narrative for the economic crisis, make it something done to us that they can solve. A Bullshit narrative, just like Browns 'it started in America' bullshit narrative.
    They need to be nurse so the electorate can cling to them.
    Not an easy lie to seed. Best start yesterday,
    No it won't. Key bit there is "they can solve". One more shock and it's finished. It may be already.
    Sure Starmer is crap. But it's looking rather like who should start up front for Everton on Saturday?
    Anthony Gordon? No way is he a lone striker! Little experience, and not suited to the role in the slightest.
    Alex Iwobi? Delle Alli?
    Gordon it is then.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    edited August 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD: do you know if members attending the final hustings in London on 31st August will be able to hand in their ballot papers after the event without relying on posting it? Because they have to be in by 2nd September I think, and you can't rely on the post to do it in that time.

    Although as with PVs late in a GE, I would expect sorting offices to be under instructions to fish them out of the mail stream and get them sorted and despatched as priority, with the receiving MC doing the same on the inward frames and straight onto a dedicated van run. So the odds would be higher than for a bog standard letter in the system.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,946
    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I wonder if Keir Starmer might be replaced as leader before the next election if he goes behind in the polls.

    Was Cameron replaced when he went behind Brown in the polls in 2007 or Kinnock replaced when he went behind Major in the polls in 1990? No. Plus you need 20% of Labour MPs to back a challenger, more even than the 15% of Tory MPs needed for a VONC
    Yes you’re right. Starmerama won’t be be replaced until he does his Ed Miliband tribute act in 2024.
    Except Truss is more Theresa May, Hillary Clinton, Julia Gillard, Segolene Royale or Kim Campbell than David Cameron I fear
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,946
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD: do you know if members attending the final hustings in London on 31st August will be able to hand in their ballot papers after the event without relying on posting it? Because they have to be in by 2nd September I think, and you can't rely on the post to do it in that time.

    I don't think so, they have to be posted or you vote online. I have already voted anyway, even though I am not going to the hustings until Thursday in Cheltenham
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,567
    Leon said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Back to SKS is crap then.

    So who would do better with polling evidence please

    Its not that he is crap, its that he seems uninspiring. The swings at by elections have been tepid, wakefield wasnt impressive given the circumstances, nothing like the LD swings. Similarly in local by elections its all very tepid from a labour perspective, theres no 'oomph' behind him. People are reluctant to conclude Labour are ready for government.
    They are getting there, yes, but its torturous progress.
    The electorate want someone/something to believe in. I don't get the sense many can be arsed to believe in SKS,
    I was chatting to a left-leaning political friend at the weekend and he was saying the usual 'Keir is aiming for the competent bank manager' image. And I had to admit that when I thought of Keir literally *nothing* comes to mind. Not 'bank manager', not 'competent', not even 'boring'. Just... nothing.
    Yes i'd agree. A void. So, i guess avoid.
    No, he was brilliantly summarised in that essay I linked to, a few days ago


    "I hate him aesthetically. I hate his fussy little too-perfect just-shy-of-Nazi-officer haircut; hate his “Prime Minister from central casting” face, which initially seemed designed by committee, but increasingly suffers from having an expression slapped on it like he's desperately trying to explain away his role in a sex scandal at the dog pound he runs; hate his pedantic voice, which makes everything he says sound like an HR meeting you don't really need to be at."


    The last line in particular is genius

    https://www.gawker.com/politics/i-hate-keir-starmer
    My fav:

    "He is aesthetically petty and dull, a piece of hotel art made man."
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717

    Leon said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Back to SKS is crap then.

    So who would do better with polling evidence please

    Its not that he is crap, its that he seems uninspiring. The swings at by elections have been tepid, wakefield wasnt impressive given the circumstances, nothing like the LD swings. Similarly in local by elections its all very tepid from a labour perspective, theres no 'oomph' behind him. People are reluctant to conclude Labour are ready for government.
    They are getting there, yes, but its torturous progress.
    The electorate want someone/something to believe in. I don't get the sense many can be arsed to believe in SKS,
    I was chatting to a left-leaning political friend at the weekend and he was saying the usual 'Keir is aiming for the competent bank manager' image. And I had to admit that when I thought of Keir literally *nothing* comes to mind. Not 'bank manager', not 'competent', not even 'boring'. Just... nothing.
    Yes i'd agree. A void. So, i guess avoid.
    No, he was brilliantly summarised in that essay I linked to, a few days ago


    "I hate him aesthetically. I hate his fussy little too-perfect just-shy-of-Nazi-officer haircut; hate his “Prime Minister from central casting” face, which initially seemed designed by committee, but increasingly suffers from having an expression slapped on it like he's desperately trying to explain away his role in a sex scandal at the dog pound he runs; hate his pedantic voice, which makes everything he says sound like an HR meeting you don't really need to be at."


    The last line in particular is genius

    https://www.gawker.com/politics/i-hate-keir-starmer
    My fav:

    "He is aesthetically petty and dull, a piece of hotel art made man."
    Sir Keir smarter armrest

  • HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I wonder if Keir Starmer might be replaced as leader before the next election if he goes behind in the polls.

    Was Cameron replaced when he went behind Brown in the polls in 2007 or Kinnock replaced when he went behind Major in the polls in 1990? No. Plus you need 20% of Labour MPs to back a challenger, more even than the 15% of Tory MPs needed for a VONC
    Yes you’re right. Starmerama won’t be be replaced until he does his Ed Miliband tribute act in 2024.
    Except Truss is more Theresa May, Hillary Clinton, Julia Gillard, Segolene Royale or Kim Campbell than David Cameron I fear
    Liz Truss is Liz Truss

    I do not understand these comparisons you seem so fond of

    I have to say I have no idea how she will evolve and some say she may surprise on the upside

    The one big plus she is not Johnson
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I wonder if Keir Starmer might be replaced as leader before the next election if he goes behind in the polls.

    Was Cameron replaced when he went behind Brown in the polls in 2007 or Kinnock replaced when he went behind Major in the polls in 1990? No. Plus you need 20% of Labour MPs to back a challenger, more even than the 15% of Tory MPs needed for a VONC
    Yes you’re right. Starmerama won’t be be replaced until he does his Ed Miliband tribute act in 2024.
    Except Truss is more Theresa May, Hillary Clinton, Julia Gillard, Segolene Royale or Kim Campbell than David Cameron I fear
    Liz Truss is Liz Truss

    I do not understand these comparisons you seem so fond of

    I have to say I have no idea how she will evolve and some say she may surprise on the upside

    The one big plus she is not Johnson
    So a succession of PMs whose only big plus is that they aren’t the person who just went before….
  • IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I wonder if Keir Starmer might be replaced as leader before the next election if he goes behind in the polls.

    Was Cameron replaced when he went behind Brown in the polls in 2007 or Kinnock replaced when he went behind Major in the polls in 1990? No. Plus you need 20% of Labour MPs to back a challenger, more even than the 15% of Tory MPs needed for a VONC
    Yes you’re right. Starmerama won’t be be replaced until he does his Ed Miliband tribute act in 2024.
    Except Truss is more Theresa May, Hillary Clinton, Julia Gillard, Segolene Royale or Kim Campbell than David Cameron I fear
    Liz Truss is Liz Truss

    I do not understand these comparisons you seem so fond of

    I have to say I have no idea how she will evolve and some say she may surprise on the upside

    The one big plus she is not Johnson
    So a succession of PMs whose only big plus is that they aren’t the person who just went before….
    I didn't say it was the only big plus, it is a big plus and more may follow - time will tell
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Leon said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Back to SKS is crap then.

    So who would do better with polling evidence please

    Its not that he is crap, its that he seems uninspiring. The swings at by elections have been tepid, wakefield wasnt impressive given the circumstances, nothing like the LD swings. Similarly in local by elections its all very tepid from a labour perspective, theres no 'oomph' behind him. People are reluctant to conclude Labour are ready for government.
    They are getting there, yes, but its torturous progress.
    The electorate want someone/something to believe in. I don't get the sense many can be arsed to believe in SKS,
    I was chatting to a left-leaning political friend at the weekend and he was saying the usual 'Keir is aiming for the competent bank manager' image. And I had to admit that when I thought of Keir literally *nothing* comes to mind. Not 'bank manager', not 'competent', not even 'boring'. Just... nothing.
    Yes i'd agree. A void. So, i guess avoid.
    No, he was brilliantly summarised in that essay I linked to, a few days ago


    "I hate him aesthetically. I hate his fussy little too-perfect just-shy-of-Nazi-officer haircut; hate his “Prime Minister from central casting” face, which initially seemed designed by committee, but increasingly suffers from having an expression slapped on it like he's desperately trying to explain away his role in a sex scandal at the dog pound he runs; hate his pedantic voice, which makes everything he says sound like an HR meeting you don't really need to be at."


    The last line in particular is genius

    https://www.gawker.com/politics/i-hate-keir-starmer
    My fav:

    "He is aesthetically petty and dull, a piece of hotel art made man."
    An antimacassar in a world without brylcream
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,946

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I wonder if Keir Starmer might be replaced as leader before the next election if he goes behind in the polls.

    Was Cameron replaced when he went behind Brown in the polls in 2007 or Kinnock replaced when he went behind Major in the polls in 1990? No. Plus you need 20% of Labour MPs to back a challenger, more even than the 15% of Tory MPs needed for a VONC
    Yes you’re right. Starmerama won’t be be replaced until he does his Ed Miliband tribute act in 2024.
    Except Truss is more Theresa May, Hillary Clinton, Julia Gillard, Segolene Royale or Kim Campbell than David Cameron I fear
    Liz Truss is Liz Truss

    I do not understand these comparisons you seem so fond of

    I have to say I have no idea how she will evolve and some say she may surprise on the upside

    The one big plus she is not Johnson
    Policy wise she is Johnson, except even more reliant on the ERG and even more rightwing
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,946
    edited August 2022
    Ozzy Osbourne concludes the Commonwealth Games closing ceremony
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I wonder if Keir Starmer might be replaced as leader before the next election if he goes behind in the polls.

    Was Cameron replaced when he went behind Brown in the polls in 2007 or Kinnock replaced when he went behind Major in the polls in 1990? No. Plus you need 20% of Labour MPs to back a challenger, more even than the 15% of Tory MPs needed for a VONC
    Yes you’re right. Starmerama won’t be be replaced until he does his Ed Miliband tribute act in 2024.
    Except Truss is more Theresa May, Hillary Clinton, Julia Gillard, Segolene Royale or Kim Campbell than David Cameron I fear
    Liz Truss is Liz Truss

    I do not understand these comparisons you seem so fond of

    I have to say I have no idea how she will evolve and some say she may surprise on the upside

    The one big plus she is not Johnson
    So a succession of PMs whose only big plus is that they aren’t the person who just went before….
    I didn't say it was the only big plus, it is a big plus and more may follow - time will tell
    Explain how “The one big plus” is different from “only big plus”?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    YouGov, the only pollster to correctly weigh geographical sub-samples, also show that Keir Starmer is a dud. Back down to 3rd place in Scotland = no cigars.

    London
    Lab 42%
    Con 28%
    LD 15%
    Grn 10%
    Ref 2%

    Rest of South
    Con 41%
    Lab 32%
    LD 14%
    Grn 8%
    Ref 3%

    Midlands and Wales
    Lab 40%
    Con 34%
    LD 9%
    PC 6%
    Grn 6%
    Ref 4%

    North
    Lab 47%
    Con 29%
    Grn 9%
    LD 8%
    Ref 5%

    Scotland
    SNP 51%
    Con 22%
    Lab 16%
    LD 5%
    Grn 4%
    Ref 1%

    (YouGov / The Times; Sample Size: 1,968; Fieldwork: 4th - 5th August 2022)

    Pro-independence parties 55%
    Unionist parties 44%

    It doesn't matter if the SNP are on 99%, Truss has made clear she will not allow any indyref2 on her watch. As the future of the union is reserved to Westminster and the UK government under the Scotland Act 1998 nothing the SNP can do about it.

    In fact logically it is better for the SNP to lose seats in Scotland but hold the balance of power in a hung parliament at Westminster than for the SNP to gain seats in Scotland and increase their number of MPs there but for either the Tories to win another majority or Labour to win most seats and have either a majority or enough seats to have a majority with the LDs
    If and when support reaches 99% (Norway, 1905 levels) the least of your worries will be “the SNP”.
    Legally however the future of the union would still remain with Westminster, even if practically it might be a bit more difficult
    "practically": so you admit the principle, that a majority for independence is sufficient?

    Astonishing about-turn.

    No, I was talking practically in terms of ensuring law enforcement maintain Westminster's sovereignty over Scotland in the reserved areas.

    Obviously I still oppose indyref2 for a generation
    Armed suppression of democracy. How do you sleep?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,720

    Leon said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Back to SKS is crap then.

    So who would do better with polling evidence please

    Its not that he is crap, its that he seems uninspiring. The swings at by elections have been tepid, wakefield wasnt impressive given the circumstances, nothing like the LD swings. Similarly in local by elections its all very tepid from a labour perspective, theres no 'oomph' behind him. People are reluctant to conclude Labour are ready for government.
    They are getting there, yes, but its torturous progress.
    The electorate want someone/something to believe in. I don't get the sense many can be arsed to believe in SKS,
    I was chatting to a left-leaning political friend at the weekend and he was saying the usual 'Keir is aiming for the competent bank manager' image. And I had to admit that when I thought of Keir literally *nothing* comes to mind. Not 'bank manager', not 'competent', not even 'boring'. Just... nothing.
    Yes i'd agree. A void. So, i guess avoid.
    No, he was brilliantly summarised in that essay I linked to, a few days ago


    "I hate him aesthetically. I hate his fussy little too-perfect just-shy-of-Nazi-officer haircut; hate his “Prime Minister from central casting” face, which initially seemed designed by committee, but increasingly suffers from having an expression slapped on it like he's desperately trying to explain away his role in a sex scandal at the dog pound he runs; hate his pedantic voice, which makes everything he says sound like an HR meeting you don't really need to be at."


    The last line in particular is genius

    https://www.gawker.com/politics/i-hate-keir-starmer
    My fav:

    "He is aesthetically petty and dull, a piece of hotel art made man."
    KSIAPOHAMMIPM

  • Just tuned into BBC for the ten o click news for them to announce welcome to world news America

  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I wonder if Keir Starmer might be replaced as leader before the next election if he goes behind in the polls.

    Was Cameron replaced when he went behind Brown in the polls in 2007 or Kinnock replaced when he went behind Major in the polls in 1990? No. Plus you need 20% of Labour MPs to back a challenger, more even than the 15% of Tory MPs needed for a VONC
    Yes you’re right. Starmerama won’t be be replaced until he does his Ed Miliband tribute act in 2024.
    Except Truss is more Theresa May, Hillary Clinton, Julia Gillard, Segolene Royale or Kim Campbell than David Cameron I fear
    Liz Truss is Liz Truss

    I do not understand these comparisons you seem so fond of

    I have to say I have no idea how she will evolve and some say she may surprise on the upside

    The one big plus she is not Johnson
    It feels pertinent that she has been in Cabinet (or a rung below) a relatively long time across portfolios and the worst anyone can say is she once gave an awkward speech about cheese and pork and she signed a trade deal that will lead to cheaper (Australian) food on British shelves.

    May was described as the submarine because she never attracted attention either but my memory of her as Home Sec was as an incompetent and bitter wench who made life impossible for my (non eu) sister in law when she tried to move to this country. Her and millions of Indians too of course. Passport office was shit back then too.

  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I wonder if Keir Starmer might be replaced as leader before the next election if he goes behind in the polls.

    Was Cameron replaced when he went behind Brown in the polls in 2007 or Kinnock replaced when he went behind Major in the polls in 1990? No. Plus you need 20% of Labour MPs to back a challenger, more even than the 15% of Tory MPs needed for a VONC
    Yes you’re right. Starmerama won’t be be replaced until he does his Ed Miliband tribute act in 2024.
    Except Truss is more Theresa May, Hillary Clinton, Julia Gillard, Segolene Royale or Kim Campbell than David Cameron I fear
    Liz Truss is Liz Truss

    I do not understand these comparisons you seem so fond of

    I have to say I have no idea how she will evolve and some say she may surprise on the upside

    The one big plus she is not Johnson
    Policy wise she is Johnson, except even more reliant on the ERG and even more rightwing
    Utter rubbish
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I wonder if Keir Starmer might be replaced as leader before the next election if he goes behind in the polls.

    Was Cameron replaced when he went behind Brown in the polls in 2007 or Kinnock replaced when he went behind Major in the polls in 1990? No. Plus you need 20% of Labour MPs to back a challenger, more even than the 15% of Tory MPs needed for a VONC
    Yes you’re right. Starmerama won’t be be replaced until he does his Ed Miliband tribute act in 2024.
    Except Truss is more Theresa May, Hillary Clinton, Julia Gillard, Segolene Royale or Kim Campbell than David Cameron I fear
    Liz Truss is Liz Truss

    I do not understand these comparisons you seem so fond of

    I have to say I have no idea how she will evolve and some say she may surprise on the upside

    The one big plus she is not Johnson
    Policy wise she is Johnson, except even more reliant on the ERG and even more rightwing
    Utter rubbish
    What evidence do you have that @HYUFD is wrong?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    SKS fans please explain

    LAB doesn't need a majority at the next election for Starmer to become PM - the Tories do to remain in power
    It's politics as showbiz. It's hard to see Starmer competing against Fizzy with an electorate that finds "I'm a celebrity..." intellectually challenging.
    That is, unfortunately, the A and Ω of the situation. A populace that could just as well have had full frontal lobotomies.

    When Liz Truss first seriously featured as a name, I was impressed. Big time. I went through a dip, but I’m coming back round to my initial assessment: I think she’s going to be a cracker for the Tories. Yes, the economic background is absolutely dire, but I’m pretty sure she can lay most of the blame for that on Brown, Cameron, Clegg, May and The Oaf. It is merely a marketing problem. Not insurmountable. The poor will freeze and starve - quite literally - but PM Truss will be alright Jack.

    My opinion of Starmer on the other hand has gone in only one direction. Straight down. I was a huge fan and very optimistic when he was first elected. England needs a decent leader. But what a disappointment. A total dud.
    Slightly surprised to see you use 'England' for 'the United Kingdom.'
    I aim to stimulate and challenge my readership with a broad variety of techniques. I’m pleased to surprise and delight you.

    The “PM” is, de facto, the FM of England.
    All nations need a leader. Even the English. Quite what they did to deserve Brown, Cameron, May, The Oaf and Truss is a moot question.
    There is no such role, one of the weaknesses of the devolution set up by Blair.
    De jure there is no such role.

    De facto there is such a role.
    Not really - when does the First Minister of England decide things only for England? Or deliver a speech to the English parliament?
    In hundreds of aspects of public life every week.

    Are you a bit thick or something?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited August 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Ozzy Osbourne concludes the Commonwealth Games closing games

    I had a fiver on it being Noddy Holder getting pegged by Julie Walters
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I've missed whether anyone has made these obvious points while I've been away.

    Pop music has definitely, overall, got worse since its peak in the 60s/70s/80s/90s/00s, depending on your POV

    There is a lot more shit music being made now than ever before

    But there's also more good music being made, even if it has become harder to make the "iconic" music that we seem to have loads of from the past

    And it's now happening all over the world. I don't know if anyone listened to my recommendation from yesterday - Monsieur Periné - a Columbian band who have in one day become my favourite foreign language band of all time. They do songs in Spanish and French

    I urge you all to put this on right now and turn it right up

    If you know a better band not singing in English please do let me know

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGL-eQAAxGs

    That's rather charming

    Some of the best pop music is definitely non-English speaking. A PB-er once linked to a brilliant Lebanese jazz-metal band (IIRC) and it was great - frustratingly I forget the name

    Also check The Hu from Mongolia, in one of the most brilliantly ridiculous videos ever made. Heavy metal nose flutes!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM8dCGIm6yc

    The Hu are awesome. They are also touring the UK in early December.

    Not sure about Lebanese Jazz but I have in the past shouted on here about a Lebanese rock band called The Wanton Bishops.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwV5LfxFMxU
    That's it. Cracking song. Now in my itunes library

    GRATITUDE
    This one is even better. https://youtu.be/ElIGFKiuHxs

    What he does with that harmonica is unbelievable. He can come round and **** ** **** *** *********** *** ** *********** *******!
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,749
    edited August 2022
    Well someone told me a while ago (1) Sunak was "too dark" to be prime minister and (2) it would be good to have another woman in charge.

    O Liberté , Liberté ! que de crimes sont commis en ton nom !
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    edited August 2022
    Olivia Newton-John has died

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-62472100

    Edit: posted earlier, I see. Apols
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I wonder if Keir Starmer might be replaced as leader before the next election if he goes behind in the polls.

    Was Cameron replaced when he went behind Brown in the polls in 2007 or Kinnock replaced when he went behind Major in the polls in 1990? No. Plus you need 20% of Labour MPs to back a challenger, more even than the 15% of Tory MPs needed for a VONC
    Yes you’re right. Starmerama won’t be be replaced until he does his Ed Miliband tribute act in 2024.
    Except Truss is more Theresa May, Hillary Clinton, Julia Gillard, Segolene Royale or Kim Campbell than David Cameron I fear
    Liz Truss is Liz Truss

    I do not understand these comparisons you seem so fond of

    I have to say I have no idea how she will evolve and some say she may surprise on the upside

    The one big plus she is not Johnson
    Policy wise she is Johnson, except even more reliant on the ERG and even more rightwing
    Utter rubbish
    What evidence do you have that @HYUFD is wrong?
    I do not accept Truss is anything like Johnson nor the right wing of the party @HYUFD hopes for

    Her cabinet will be inclusive
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    YouGov, the only pollster to correctly weigh geographical sub-samples, also show that Keir Starmer is a dud. Back down to 3rd place in Scotland = no cigars.

    London
    Lab 42%
    Con 28%
    LD 15%
    Grn 10%
    Ref 2%

    Rest of South
    Con 41%
    Lab 32%
    LD 14%
    Grn 8%
    Ref 3%

    Midlands and Wales
    Lab 40%
    Con 34%
    LD 9%
    PC 6%
    Grn 6%
    Ref 4%

    North
    Lab 47%
    Con 29%
    Grn 9%
    LD 8%
    Ref 5%

    Scotland
    SNP 51%
    Con 22%
    Lab 16%
    LD 5%
    Grn 4%
    Ref 1%

    (YouGov / The Times; Sample Size: 1,968; Fieldwork: 4th - 5th August 2022)

    Pro-independence parties 55%
    Unionist parties 44%

    It doesn't matter if the SNP are on 99%, Truss has made clear she will not allow any indyref2 on her watch. As the future of the union is reserved to Westminster and the UK government under the Scotland Act 1998 nothing the SNP can do about it.

    In fact logically it is better for the SNP to lose seats in Scotland but hold the balance of power in a hung parliament at Westminster than for the SNP to gain seats in Scotland and increase their number of MPs there but for either the Tories to win another majority or Labour to win most seats and have either a majority or enough seats to have a majority with the LDs
    The SCons being second in a sub sample has evidently loosened your grip on the English language.
    At least one Tory isn’t ruling out the possibility of an indyref2.


    Hmm. Labour not volunteering to be the tulchan coo* this time round?

    * Or Bell-the-cat, if you prefer that allusion.
    If Labour don’t lead it they’ll definitely lose.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    edited August 2022

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I wonder if Keir Starmer might be replaced as leader before the next election if he goes behind in the polls.

    Was Cameron replaced when he went behind Brown in the polls in 2007 or Kinnock replaced when he went behind Major in the polls in 1990? No. Plus you need 20% of Labour MPs to back a challenger, more even than the 15% of Tory MPs needed for a VONC
    Yes you’re right. Starmerama won’t be be replaced until he does his Ed Miliband tribute act in 2024.
    Except Truss is more Theresa May, Hillary Clinton, Julia Gillard, Segolene Royale or Kim Campbell than David Cameron I fear
    Liz Truss is Liz Truss

    I do not understand these comparisons you seem so fond of

    I have to say I have no idea how she will evolve and some say she may surprise on the upside

    The one big plus she is not Johnson
    Policy wise she is Johnson, except even more reliant on the ERG and even more rightwing
    Utter rubbish
    What evidence do you have that @HYUFD is wrong?
    She used to be a Lib Dem Republican, which is not the usual background for someone who is very right wing.

    I suspect the Erg support for her campaign was canny politicking on her part. It doesn’t make her reliant on them I don’t think, if anything it allows her room to pivot back to the centre to build a broader church. Not long to wait and see anyway.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,154
    Alistair said:

    The Election of Biden was the American people's embrace of far left politics as evidenced by their election of Warnock and Ossoff to the Senate.

    Please use the man's full title: Future President Jon Ossoff
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD: do you know if members attending the final hustings in London on 31st August will be able to hand in their ballot papers after the event without relying on posting it? Because they have to be in by 2nd September I think, and you can't rely on the post to do it in that time.

    I don't think so, they have to be posted or you vote online. I have already voted anyway, even though I am not going to the hustings until Thursday in Cheltenham
    Thanks for the reply.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I wonder if Keir Starmer might be replaced as leader before the next election if he goes behind in the polls.

    Was Cameron replaced when he went behind Brown in the polls in 2007 or Kinnock replaced when he went behind Major in the polls in 1990? No. Plus you need 20% of Labour MPs to back a challenger, more even than the 15% of Tory MPs needed for a VONC
    Yes you’re right. Starmerama won’t be be replaced until he does his Ed Miliband tribute act in 2024.
    Except Truss is more Theresa May, Hillary Clinton, Julia Gillard, Segolene Royale or Kim Campbell than David Cameron I fear
    Liz Truss is Liz Truss

    I do not understand these comparisons you seem so fond of

    I have to say I have no idea how she will evolve and some say she may surprise on the upside

    The one big plus she is not Johnson
    Policy wise she is Johnson, except even more reliant on the ERG and even more rightwing
    Utter rubbish
    What evidence do you have that @HYUFD is wrong?
    I do not accept Truss is anything like Johnson nor the right wing of the party @HYUFD hopes for

    Her cabinet will be inclusive
    It will certainly include total bampots.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,434
    Very sad. A wonderful entertainer.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    edited August 2022
    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I've missed whether anyone has made these obvious points while I've been away.

    Pop music has definitely, overall, got worse since its peak in the 60s/70s/80s/90s/00s, depending on your POV

    There is a lot more shit music being made now than ever before

    But there's also more good music being made, even if it has become harder to make the "iconic" music that we seem to have loads of from the past

    And it's now happening all over the world. I don't know if anyone listened to my recommendation from yesterday - Monsieur Periné - a Columbian band who have in one day become my favourite foreign language band of all time. They do songs in Spanish and French

    I urge you all to put this on right now and turn it right up

    If you know a better band not singing in English please do let me know

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGL-eQAAxGs

    That's rather charming

    Some of the best pop music is definitely non-English speaking. A PB-er once linked to a brilliant Lebanese jazz-metal band (IIRC) and it was great - frustratingly I forget the name

    Also check The Hu from Mongolia, in one of the most brilliantly ridiculous videos ever made. Heavy metal nose flutes!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM8dCGIm6yc

    The Hu are awesome. They are also touring the UK in early December.

    Not sure about Lebanese Jazz but I have in the past shouted on here about a Lebanese rock band called The Wanton Bishops.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwV5LfxFMxU
    That's it. Cracking song. Now in my itunes library

    GRATITUDE
    This one is even better. https://youtu.be/ElIGFKiuHxs

    What he does with that harmonica is unbelievable. He can come round and **** ** **** *** *********** *** ** *********** *******!
    Every woman should seek out a guy or girl who plays the harmonica.
    Transferable skills are often underrated.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited August 2022

    I've missed whether anyone has made these obvious points while I've been away.

    Pop music has definitely, overall, got worse since its peak in the 60s/70s/80s/90s/00s, depending on your POV

    There is a lot more shit music being made now than ever before

    But there's also more good music being made, even if it has become harder to make the "iconic" music that we seem to have loads of from the past

    And it's now happening all over the world. I don't know if anyone listened to my recommendation from yesterday - Monsieur Periné - a Columbian band who have in one day become my favourite foreign language band of all time. They do songs in Spanish and French

    I urge you all to put this on right now and turn it right up

    If you know a better band not singing in English please do let me know

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGL-eQAAxGs

    Hello from Maine.

    Very good, thanks for posting.
    The taste quality on PB is astonishingly poor, especially from some of the most notable posters. You are a brilliant exception.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,946
    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I wonder if Keir Starmer might be replaced as leader before the next election if he goes behind in the polls.

    Was Cameron replaced when he went behind Brown in the polls in 2007 or Kinnock replaced when he went behind Major in the polls in 1990? No. Plus you need 20% of Labour MPs to back a challenger, more even than the 15% of Tory MPs needed for a VONC
    Yes you’re right. Starmerama won’t be be replaced until he does his Ed Miliband tribute act in 2024.
    Except Truss is more Theresa May, Hillary Clinton, Julia Gillard, Segolene Royale or Kim Campbell than David Cameron I fear
    Liz Truss is Liz Truss

    I do not understand these comparisons you seem so fond of

    I have to say I have no idea how she will evolve and some say she may surprise on the upside

    The one big plus she is not Johnson
    Policy wise she is Johnson, except even more reliant on the ERG and even more rightwing
    Utter rubbish
    What evidence do you have that @HYUFD is wrong?
    She used to be a Lib Dem Republican, which is not the usual background for someone who is very right wing.

    I suspect the Erg support for her campaign was canny politicking on her part. It doesn’t make her reliant on them I don’t think, if anything it allows her room to pivot back to the centre to build a broader church. Not long to wait and see anyway.
    She got even fewer MPs backing her in the final round percentage wise than IDS and most of them ERG.

    The ERG made her, if she abandons them the ERG can also break her
  • Seems to me that Truss's policies are fairly similar to Johnson's? What am I missing
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,720

    Very sad. A wonderful entertainer.
    God, I feel old.

    RIP.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,397

    Very sad. A wonderful entertainer.
    Fellow Aussie Judith Durham from The Seekers also went at the weekend.

    They were still performing too.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Very sad. A wonderful entertainer.
    God, I feel old.

    RIP.
    Ditto.

    Just enjoying Summer Nights…

  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    YouGov, the only pollster to correctly weigh geographical sub-samples, also show that Keir Starmer is a dud. Back down to 3rd place in Scotland = no cigars.

    London
    Lab 42%
    Con 28%
    LD 15%
    Grn 10%
    Ref 2%

    Rest of South
    Con 41%
    Lab 32%
    LD 14%
    Grn 8%
    Ref 3%

    Midlands and Wales
    Lab 40%
    Con 34%
    LD 9%
    PC 6%
    Grn 6%
    Ref 4%

    North
    Lab 47%
    Con 29%
    Grn 9%
    LD 8%
    Ref 5%

    Scotland
    SNP 51%
    Con 22%
    Lab 16%
    LD 5%
    Grn 4%
    Ref 1%

    (YouGov / The Times; Sample Size: 1,968; Fieldwork: 4th - 5th August 2022)

    Pro-independence parties 55%
    Unionist parties 44%

    It doesn't matter if the SNP are on 99%, Truss has made clear she will not allow any indyref2 on her watch. As the future of the union is reserved to Westminster and the UK government under the Scotland Act 1998 nothing the SNP can do about it.

    In fact logically it is better for the SNP to lose seats in Scotland but hold the balance of power in a hung parliament at Westminster than for the SNP to gain seats in Scotland and increase their number of MPs there but for either the Tories to win another majority or Labour to win most seats and have either a majority or enough seats to have a majority with the LDs
    If and when support reaches 99% (Norway, 1905 levels) the least of your worries will be “the SNP”.
    Legally however the future of the union would still remain with Westminster, even if practically it might be a bit more difficult
    Practicality will be the least of your worries. Try morality.
    He hasn’t tried morality yet, despite professing to be a Christian.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,749
    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I wonder if Keir Starmer might be replaced as leader before the next election if he goes behind in the polls.

    Was Cameron replaced when he went behind Brown in the polls in 2007 or Kinnock replaced when he went behind Major in the polls in 1990? No. Plus you need 20% of Labour MPs to back a challenger, more even than the 15% of Tory MPs needed for a VONC
    Yes you’re right. Starmerama won’t be be replaced until he does his Ed Miliband tribute act in 2024.
    Except Truss is more Theresa May, Hillary Clinton, Julia Gillard, Segolene Royale or Kim Campbell than David Cameron I fear
    Liz Truss is Liz Truss

    I do not understand these comparisons you seem so fond of

    I have to say I have no idea how she will evolve and some say she may surprise on the upside

    The one big plus she is not Johnson
    Policy wise she is Johnson, except even more reliant on the ERG and even more rightwing
    Utter rubbish
    What evidence do you have that @HYUFD is wrong?
    She used to be a Lib Dem Republican, which is not the usual background for someone who is very right wing.

    I suspect the Erg support for her campaign was canny politicking on her part. It doesn’t make her reliant on them I don’t think, if anything it allows her room to pivot back to the centre to build a broader church. Not long to wait and see anyway.
    She got even fewer MPs backing her in the final round percentage wise than IDS and most of them ERG.

    The ERG made her, if she abandons them the ERG can also break her
    My God - how hard was it to break the man most patently unfit for office since Caligula?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,720

    Seems to me that Truss's policies are fairly similar to Johnson's? What am I missing

    She wears a skirt sometimes.

    Otherwise, the show goes on. Only worse.

    Her Cabinet will make his look like a set of political titans for the ages.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,154
    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I wonder if Keir Starmer might be replaced as leader before the next election if he goes behind in the polls.

    Was Cameron replaced when he went behind Brown in the polls in 2007 or Kinnock replaced when he went behind Major in the polls in 1990? No. Plus you need 20% of Labour MPs to back a challenger, more even than the 15% of Tory MPs needed for a VONC
    Yes you’re right. Starmerama won’t be be replaced until he does his Ed Miliband tribute act in 2024.
    Except Truss is more Theresa May, Hillary Clinton, Julia Gillard, Segolene Royale or Kim Campbell than David Cameron I fear
    Liz Truss is Liz Truss

    I do not understand these comparisons you seem so fond of

    I have to say I have no idea how she will evolve and some say she may surprise on the upside

    The one big plus she is not Johnson
    Policy wise she is Johnson, except even more reliant on the ERG and even more rightwing
    Utter rubbish
    What evidence do you have that @HYUFD is wrong?
    She used to be a Lib Dem Republican, which is not the usual background for someone who is very right wing.

    I suspect the Erg support for her campaign was canny politicking on her part. It doesn’t make her reliant on them I don’t think, if anything it allows her room to pivot back to the centre to build a broader church. Not long to wait and see anyway.
    I think this is spot on.

    I also think she will do a better job of "talking softly but carrying a big stick" with the EU. In other words, she'll be more outwardly friendly than Johnson, but she'll probably be more resolute.

    Moderates will be happy with the softer tone. Hard liners will hopefully be happy with the progress.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I wonder if Keir Starmer might be replaced as leader before the next election if he goes behind in the polls.

    Was Cameron replaced when he went behind Brown in the polls in 2007 or Kinnock replaced when he went behind Major in the polls in 1990? No. Plus you need 20% of Labour MPs to back a challenger, more even than the 15% of Tory MPs needed for a VONC
    Yes you’re right. Starmerama won’t be be replaced until he does his Ed Miliband tribute act in 2024.
    Except Truss is more Theresa May, Hillary Clinton, Julia Gillard, Segolene Royale or Kim Campbell than David Cameron I fear
    Liz Truss is Liz Truss

    I do not understand these comparisons you seem so fond of

    I have to say I have no idea how she will evolve and some say she may surprise on the upside

    The one big plus she is not Johnson
    It will be interesting to see if she changes once she has to impress the electorate instead of just the Tory membership.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,720
    HYUFD said:

    Ozzy Osbourne concludes the Commonwealth Games closing ceremony

    No live bats were involved in the filming of this show.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    YouGov, the only pollster to correctly weigh geographical sub-samples, also show that Keir Starmer is a dud. Back down to 3rd place in Scotland = no cigars.

    London
    Lab 42%
    Con 28%
    LD 15%
    Grn 10%
    Ref 2%

    Rest of South
    Con 41%
    Lab 32%
    LD 14%
    Grn 8%
    Ref 3%

    Midlands and Wales
    Lab 40%
    Con 34%
    LD 9%
    PC 6%
    Grn 6%
    Ref 4%

    North
    Lab 47%
    Con 29%
    Grn 9%
    LD 8%
    Ref 5%

    Scotland
    SNP 51%
    Con 22%
    Lab 16%
    LD 5%
    Grn 4%
    Ref 1%

    (YouGov / The Times; Sample Size: 1,968; Fieldwork: 4th - 5th August 2022)

    Pro-independence parties 55%
    Unionist parties 44%

    It doesn't matter if the SNP are on 99%, Truss has made clear she will not allow any indyref2 on her watch. As the future of the union is reserved to Westminster and the UK government under the Scotland Act 1998 nothing the SNP can do about it.

    In fact logically it is better for the SNP to lose seats in Scotland but hold the balance of power in a hung parliament at Westminster than for the SNP to gain seats in Scotland and increase their number of MPs there but for either the Tories to win another majority or Labour to win most seats and have either a majority or enough seats to have a majority with the LDs
    If and when support reaches 99% (Norway, 1905 levels) the least of your worries will be “the SNP”.
    Legally however the future of the union would still remain with Westminster, even if practically it might be a bit more difficult
    Practicality will be the least of your worries. Try morality.
    He hasn’t tried morality yet, despite professing to be a Christian.
    He has already displayed his profound immortality for all to see: he’s a huge Franco fan and advocates the armed suppression and imprisonment of political opponents.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD: do you know if members attending the final hustings in London on 31st August will be able to hand in their ballot papers after the event without relying on posting it? Because they have to be in by 2nd September I think, and you can't rely on the post to do it in that time.

    I don't think so, they have to be posted or you vote online. I have already voted anyway, even though I am not going to the hustings until Thursday in Cheltenham
    Do you have your killer question ready to ask?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,658

    Very sad. A wonderful entertainer.
    God, I feel old.

    RIP.
    Let's get metaphysical...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,946

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD: do you know if members attending the final hustings in London on 31st August will be able to hand in their ballot papers after the event without relying on posting it? Because they have to be in by 2nd September I think, and you can't rely on the post to do it in that time.

    I don't think so, they have to be posted or you vote online. I have already voted anyway, even though I am not going to the hustings until Thursday in Cheltenham
    Do you have your killer question ready to ask?
    Even if I did I doubt it would make much difference, most members now will already have voted
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,154
    edited August 2022
    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I wonder if Keir Starmer might be replaced as leader before the next election if he goes behind in the polls.

    Was Cameron replaced when he went behind Brown in the polls in 2007 or Kinnock replaced when he went behind Major in the polls in 1990? No. Plus you need 20% of Labour MPs to back a challenger, more even than the 15% of Tory MPs needed for a VONC
    Yes you’re right. Starmerama won’t be be replaced until he does his Ed Miliband tribute act in 2024.
    Except Truss is more Theresa May, Hillary Clinton, Julia Gillard, Segolene Royale or Kim Campbell than David Cameron I fear
    Liz Truss is Liz Truss

    I do not understand these comparisons you seem so fond of

    I have to say I have no idea how she will evolve and some say she may surprise on the upside

    The one big plus she is not Johnson
    Policy wise she is Johnson, except even more reliant on the ERG and even more rightwing
    Utter rubbish
    What evidence do you have that @HYUFD is wrong?
    She used to be a Lib Dem Republican, which is not the usual background for someone who is very right wing.

    I suspect the Erg support for her campaign was canny politicking on her part. It doesn’t make her reliant on them I don’t think, if anything it allows her room to pivot back to the centre to build a broader church. Not long to wait and see anyway.
    I think this is spot on.

    I also think she will do a better job of "talking softly but carrying a big stick" with the EU. In other words, she'll be more outwardly friendly than Johnson, but she'll probably be more resolute.

    Moderates will be happy with the softer tone. Hard liners will hopefully be happy with the progress.
    Of course, I realise that some hard liners will not be happy with anything short of an actual war with Germany and France, so I may be excessively optimistic.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,946

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    YouGov, the only pollster to correctly weigh geographical sub-samples, also show that Keir Starmer is a dud. Back down to 3rd place in Scotland = no cigars.

    London
    Lab 42%
    Con 28%
    LD 15%
    Grn 10%
    Ref 2%

    Rest of South
    Con 41%
    Lab 32%
    LD 14%
    Grn 8%
    Ref 3%

    Midlands and Wales
    Lab 40%
    Con 34%
    LD 9%
    PC 6%
    Grn 6%
    Ref 4%

    North
    Lab 47%
    Con 29%
    Grn 9%
    LD 8%
    Ref 5%

    Scotland
    SNP 51%
    Con 22%
    Lab 16%
    LD 5%
    Grn 4%
    Ref 1%

    (YouGov / The Times; Sample Size: 1,968; Fieldwork: 4th - 5th August 2022)

    Pro-independence parties 55%
    Unionist parties 44%

    It doesn't matter if the SNP are on 99%, Truss has made clear she will not allow any indyref2 on her watch. As the future of the union is reserved to Westminster and the UK government under the Scotland Act 1998 nothing the SNP can do about it.

    In fact logically it is better for the SNP to lose seats in Scotland but hold the balance of power in a hung parliament at Westminster than for the SNP to gain seats in Scotland and increase their number of MPs there but for either the Tories to win another majority or Labour to win most seats and have either a majority or enough seats to have a majority with the LDs
    If and when support reaches 99% (Norway, 1905 levels) the least of your worries will be “the SNP”.
    Legally however the future of the union would still remain with Westminster, even if practically it might be a bit more difficult
    Practicality will be the least of your worries. Try morality.
    He hasn’t tried morality yet, despite professing to be a Christian.
    He has already displayed his profound immortality for all to see: he’s a huge Franco fan and advocates the armed suppression and imprisonment of political opponents.
    No, I advocate respect for the British state and its reserved power over the union not allowing the SNP to dictate the agenda so they keep holding indyrefs until they get the result they want
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Never knew Olivia Newton-John had covered Jolene. A little pedestrian, but I’ve heard worse.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717
    edited August 2022
     
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD: do you know if members attending the final hustings in London on 31st August will be able to hand in their ballot papers after the event without relying on posting it? Because they have to be in by 2nd September I think, and you can't rely on the post to do it in that time.

    I don't think so, they have to be posted or you vote online. I have already voted anyway, even though I am not going to the hustings until Thursday in Cheltenham
    aiui you can always change your vote if the facts change as Keynes is wrongly reputed to have said (it was Paul A Samuelson).

  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD: do you know if members attending the final hustings in London on 31st August will be able to hand in their ballot papers after the event without relying on posting it? Because they have to be in by 2nd September I think, and you can't rely on the post to do it in that time.

    I don't think so, they have to be posted or you vote online. I have already voted anyway, even though I am not going to the hustings until Thursday in Cheltenham
    Do you have your killer question ready to ask?
    Even if I did I doubt it would make much difference, most members now will already have voted
    I’m disappointed! That’s a defeatist attitude; not like your normal ebullience.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    YouGov, the only pollster to correctly weigh geographical sub-samples, also show that Keir Starmer is a dud. Back down to 3rd place in Scotland = no cigars.

    London
    Lab 42%
    Con 28%
    LD 15%
    Grn 10%
    Ref 2%

    Rest of South
    Con 41%
    Lab 32%
    LD 14%
    Grn 8%
    Ref 3%

    Midlands and Wales
    Lab 40%
    Con 34%
    LD 9%
    PC 6%
    Grn 6%
    Ref 4%

    North
    Lab 47%
    Con 29%
    Grn 9%
    LD 8%
    Ref 5%

    Scotland
    SNP 51%
    Con 22%
    Lab 16%
    LD 5%
    Grn 4%
    Ref 1%

    (YouGov / The Times; Sample Size: 1,968; Fieldwork: 4th - 5th August 2022)

    Pro-independence parties 55%
    Unionist parties 44%

    It doesn't matter if the SNP are on 99%, Truss has made clear she will not allow any indyref2 on her watch. As the future of the union is reserved to Westminster and the UK government under the Scotland Act 1998 nothing the SNP can do about it.

    In fact logically it is better for the SNP to lose seats in Scotland but hold the balance of power in a hung parliament at Westminster than for the SNP to gain seats in Scotland and increase their number of MPs there but for either the Tories to win another majority or Labour to win most seats and have either a majority or enough seats to have a majority with the LDs
    If and when support reaches 99% (Norway, 1905 levels) the least of your worries will be “the SNP”.
    Legally however the future of the union would still remain with Westminster, even if practically it might be a bit more difficult
    Practicality will be the least of your worries. Try morality.
    He hasn’t tried morality yet, despite professing to be a Christian.
    He has already displayed his profound immortality for all to see: he’s a huge Franco fan and advocates the armed suppression and imprisonment of political opponents.
    No, I advocate respect for the British state and its reserved power over the union not allowing the SNP to dictate the agenda so they keep holding indyrefs until they get the result they want
    It’s the Scottish electorate dictating the agenda, as it must always be. Don’t shoot the messenger.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,063
    edited August 2022

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I wonder if Keir Starmer might be replaced as leader before the next election if he goes behind in the polls.

    Was Cameron replaced when he went behind Brown in the polls in 2007 or Kinnock replaced when he went behind Major in the polls in 1990? No. Plus you need 20% of Labour MPs to back a challenger, more even than the 15% of Tory MPs needed for a VONC
    Yes you’re right. Starmerama won’t be be replaced until he does his Ed Miliband tribute act in 2024.
    Except Truss is more Theresa May, Hillary Clinton, Julia Gillard, Segolene Royale or Kim Campbell than David Cameron I fear
    Liz Truss is Liz Truss

    I do not understand these comparisons you seem so fond of

    I have to say I have no idea how she will evolve and some say she may surprise on the upside

    The one big plus she is not Johnson
    It will be interesting to see if she changes once she has to impress the electorate instead of just the Tory membership.
    The next 6 - 8 weeks will be very interesting as will the party conferences

    Economically I prefer Sunak but Truss looks odds on and while the abolition of the NI rise only helps those earning over £34,000 holding down corporation tax and the abolition of NI is a sensible policy to generate investment and jobs

    Apparently she is to have an emergency budget in September so this will define her especially as she addresses those worst hit by the col crisis

    The ERG are a diminishing force in the conservative party and Truss will not need to fear them
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    dixiedean said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I've missed whether anyone has made these obvious points while I've been away.

    Pop music has definitely, overall, got worse since its peak in the 60s/70s/80s/90s/00s, depending on your POV

    There is a lot more shit music being made now than ever before

    But there's also more good music being made, even if it has become harder to make the "iconic" music that we seem to have loads of from the past

    And it's now happening all over the world. I don't know if anyone listened to my recommendation from yesterday - Monsieur Periné - a Columbian band who have in one day become my favourite foreign language band of all time. They do songs in Spanish and French

    I urge you all to put this on right now and turn it right up

    If you know a better band not singing in English please do let me know

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGL-eQAAxGs

    That's rather charming

    Some of the best pop music is definitely non-English speaking. A PB-er once linked to a brilliant Lebanese jazz-metal band (IIRC) and it was great - frustratingly I forget the name

    Also check The Hu from Mongolia, in one of the most brilliantly ridiculous videos ever made. Heavy metal nose flutes!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM8dCGIm6yc

    The Hu are awesome. They are also touring the UK in early December.

    Not sure about Lebanese Jazz but I have in the past shouted on here about a Lebanese rock band called The Wanton Bishops.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwV5LfxFMxU
    That's it. Cracking song. Now in my itunes library

    GRATITUDE
    This one is even better. https://youtu.be/ElIGFKiuHxs

    What he does with that harmonica is unbelievable. He can come round and **** ** **** *** *********** *** ** *********** *******!
    Every woman should seek out a guy or girl who plays the harmonica.
    Transferable skills are often underrated.
    He's one sexy beast, even without the harmonica. With it, well .......
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I wonder if Keir Starmer might be replaced as leader before the next election if he goes behind in the polls.

    Was Cameron replaced when he went behind Brown in the polls in 2007 or Kinnock replaced when he went behind Major in the polls in 1990? No. Plus you need 20% of Labour MPs to back a challenger, more even than the 15% of Tory MPs needed for a VONC
    Yes you’re right. Starmerama won’t be be replaced until he does his Ed Miliband tribute act in 2024.
    Except Truss is more Theresa May, Hillary Clinton, Julia Gillard, Segolene Royale or Kim Campbell than David Cameron I fear
    Liz Truss is Liz Truss

    I do not understand these comparisons you seem so fond of

    I have to say I have no idea how she will evolve and some say she may surprise on the upside

    The one big plus she is not Johnson
    It will be interesting to see if she changes once she has to impress the electorate instead of just the Tory membership.
    100% guaranteed that she will.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402

    Never knew Olivia Newton-John had covered Jolene. A little pedestrian, but I’ve heard worse.

    Miley.Cyrus does a smoking cover.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,720
    Is Biden turning the tide on his so-far deeply unpopular presidency?

    Inflation Act is a massive win.
  • On topic, even Gordon Brown and Theresa May got bounces in the run up to taking power and shortly thereafter.

    Keep calm and review these numbers when the price cap goes north of £5,000 and the inflation is running rampant.

    This is what you get when you let public schoolboys run the country...
    Liz, like myself, is a working class Yorkshire person.
    You are a public schoolboy.
  • DynamoDynamo Posts: 651
    edited August 2022
    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I've missed whether anyone has made these obvious points while I've been away.

    Pop music has definitely, overall, got worse since its peak in the 60s/70s/80s/90s/00s, depending on your POV

    There is a lot more shit music being made now than ever before

    But there's also more good music being made, even if it has become harder to make the "iconic" music that we seem to have loads of from the past

    And it's now happening all over the world. I don't know if anyone listened to my recommendation from yesterday - Monsieur Periné - a Columbian band who have in one day become my favourite foreign language band of all time. They do songs in Spanish and French

    I urge you all to put this on right now and turn it right up

    If you know a better band not singing in English please do let me know

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGL-eQAAxGs

    That's rather charming

    Some of the best pop music is definitely non-English speaking. A PB-er once linked to a brilliant Lebanese jazz-metal band (IIRC) and it was great - frustratingly I forget the name

    Also check The Hu from Mongolia, in one of the most brilliantly ridiculous videos ever made. Heavy metal nose flutes!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM8dCGIm6yc

    The Hu are awesome. They are also touring the UK in early December.

    Not sure about Lebanese Jazz but I have in the past shouted on here about a Lebanese rock band called The Wanton Bishops.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwV5LfxFMxU
    That's it. Cracking song. Now in my itunes library

    GRATITUDE
    This one is even better. https://youtu.be/ElIGFKiuHxs

    What he does with that harmonica is unbelievable. He can come round and **** ** **** *** *********** *** ** *********** *******!
    F*** - that guy can handle that harp!

    Made me think of Lee Brilleaux of Dr Feelgood:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV0yYcN9QnE

    The Hu - you can keep them. I'm not into incorporating traditional folk instruments into rock music.

    Laibach from Slovenia do the kitsch heavy thing MUCH better:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjDXmv8hURw <- British national anthem :):)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjIOP7M2DrY

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6Mx2mxpaCY <- a reference to English private boarding schools, or to the "Napoli" schools in 1930s Germany that they served as a model for?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oD0W6SSBUA
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,383
    Does Black Sabbath playing Paranoid (1970) at the closing CG ceremony prove the hypothesis of those who've argued that there's been no decent music for the last 50 years?
    Or is it just that the organisers couldn't find anything better that's come out of the Birmingham music scene? (UB40 would have been a bit more recent, though).
    I suspect the latter.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,434
    Taz said:

    Very sad. A wonderful entertainer.
    Fellow Aussie Judith Durham from The Seekers also went at the weekend.

    They were still performing too.
    Oh, my Dad will be very sad about that. RIP.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Is Biden turning the tide on his so-far deeply unpopular presidency?

    Inflation Act is a massive win.

    Everyone loves tax inspectors after all
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    edited August 2022
    Nice to see Dexy's Midnight Runners on stage exactly 40 years after they reached number one with Come On Eileen.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    dixiedean said:

    Never knew Olivia Newton-John had covered Jolene. A little pedestrian, but I’ve heard worse.

    Miley.Cyrus does a smoking cover.
    Now *that’s* more like it! 👍🏻
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,720

    Does Black Sabbath playing Paranoid (1970) at the closing CG ceremony prove the hypothesis of those who've argued that there's been no decent music for the last 50 years?
    Or is it just that the organisers couldn't find anything better that's come out of the Birmingham music scene? (UB40 would have been a bit more recent, though).
    I suspect the latter.

    Duran Duran already did their bit.

    The Move were unavailable.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    Does Black Sabbath playing Paranoid (1970) at the closing CG ceremony prove the hypothesis of those who've argued that there's been no decent music for the last 50 years?
    Or is it just that the organisers couldn't find anything better that's come out of the Birmingham music scene? (UB40 would have been a bit more recent, though).
    I suspect the latter.

    You didn't watch the whole show then?

    UB40 were on earlier. Dexy's Midnight Runners. The Selector !

    And some current acts.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited August 2022

    Does Black Sabbath playing Paranoid (1970) at the closing CG ceremony prove the hypothesis of those who've argued that there's been no decent music for the last 50 years?
    Or is it just that the organisers couldn't find anything better that's come out of the Birmingham music scene? (UB40 would have been a bit more recent, though).
    I suspect the latter.

    Ocean Colour Scene werent available
    Edit - now i look like im just copying Rottenboroughs joke but im not! Its not fair damn it
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,383

    Does Black Sabbath playing Paranoid (1970) at the closing CG ceremony prove the hypothesis of those who've argued that there's been no decent music for the last 50 years?
    Or is it just that the organisers couldn't find anything better that's come out of the Birmingham music scene? (UB40 would have been a bit more recent, though).
    I suspect the latter.

    Duran Duran already did their bit.

    The Move were unavailable.

    Emigrated, presumably.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Very sad. A wonderful entertainer.
    God, I feel old.

    RIP.
    Ditto.

    Just enjoying Summer Nights…

    Tell me more
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930

    Is Biden turning the tide on his so-far deeply unpopular presidency?

    Inflation Act is a massive win.

    Aptly named

    Democrats have argued the measure will tackle voters' main economic concern, naming it the Inflation Reduction Act. Republicans argue the new spending will aggravate inflation. The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office says, though, the bill has a "negligible" effect on inflation in 2022 and into 2023.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    dixiedean said:

    Never knew Olivia Newton-John had covered Jolene. A little pedestrian, but I’ve heard worse.

    Miley.Cyrus does a smoking cover.
    The Mindy Smith cover is sublime
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    Ocean Colour Scene werent available
    Edit - now i look like im just copying Rottenboroughs joke but im not! Its not fair damn it

    Ocean Colour Scene opened the show (although not live)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,567
    Andy_JS said:

    Nice to see Dexy's Midnight Runners on stage exactly 40 years after they reached number one with Come On Eileen.

    I fucking hate that song.....
This discussion has been closed.