Why stoking the culture wars ensures a Tory shellacking – politicalbetting.com
Comments
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It would involve changing the shape of the mountain concerned. Good luck with planning permission to decapitate Snowden….Luckyguy1983 said:
Doesn't stop people building the damn ugly windmills all over them in the first place. I'd imagine such a scheme would be less transformative to the lansdscape than that.Malmesbury said:
The problem is that people like those hills as they are.Luckyguy1983 said:
Quite a few hills here in Scotland, lots in Wales too.pm215 said:
Isn't the problem with that that we don't actually have very many suitable sites to do that in this country? We do it at Dinorwig and maybe one or two other places, but you need quite a bit of height difference and the ability to have a reservoir of water at top and bottom.Luckyguy1983 said:Someone here last time this was discussed said quite sensibly that you can just use excess wind power to push water up a hill, then let it roll down and generate power when the wind stops. That sounded fairly sensible. Not sure how much excess there is at present.
Chopping the top of mountains will be strongly resisted.
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It's a moot point - it seems from helpful links provided above that there are plenty of schemes that already have planning permission.IshmaelZ said:
I have been to the top of a lot of these hills. What there is, is pretty bloody interesting. And rare.Luckyguy1983 said:
Well, clearly I don't have the information to say that's untrue, but the environment at the top of a lot of these hills is pretty bleak. Not much flora and fauna up there.JosiasJessop said:
But it's not just about having 'hills': it's about having the right conditions, both in terms of height and geology. Then wait until the environmentalists complain that the upper pond's are going to destroy the environment (and I do have some sympathy with that...)Luckyguy1983 said:
Quite a few hills here in Scotland, lots in Wales too.pm215 said:
Isn't the problem with that that we don't actually have very many suitable sites to do that in this country? We do it at Dinorwig and maybe one or two other places, but you need quite a bit of height difference and the ability to have a reservoir of water at top and bottom.Luckyguy1983 said:Someone here last time this was discussed said quite sensibly that you can just use excess wind power to push water up a hill, then let it roll down and generate power when the wind stops. That sounded fairly sensible. Not sure how much excess there is at present.
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It's the huge, permanent roads that have to be built on the peat bogs that are the problem.Malmesbury said:
It would involve changing the shape of the mountain concerned. Good luck with planning permission to decapitate Snowden….Luckyguy1983 said:
Doesn't stop people building the damn ugly windmills all over them in the first place. I'd imagine such a scheme would be less transformative to the lansdscape than that.Malmesbury said:
The problem is that people like those hills as they are.Luckyguy1983 said:
Quite a few hills here in Scotland, lots in Wales too.pm215 said:
Isn't the problem with that that we don't actually have very many suitable sites to do that in this country? We do it at Dinorwig and maybe one or two other places, but you need quite a bit of height difference and the ability to have a reservoir of water at top and bottom.Luckyguy1983 said:Someone here last time this was discussed said quite sensibly that you can just use excess wind power to push water up a hill, then let it roll down and generate power when the wind stops. That sounded fairly sensible. Not sure how much excess there is at present.
Chopping the top of mountains will be strongly resisted.0 -
They are also much less noticeable.LostPassword said:
Is it? I would have thought the reason for that was obvious.BartholomewRoberts said:Its interesting to note that almost none of this conversation is about transmen.
It is men who are responsible for the vast majority of violence in society and so it is men that society has taken most steps to protect more vulnerable groups from, and a person doesn't stop being a man, and a potential threat on that basis, just by saying so.
Someone who wasn't a man, but says that they are, doesn't then acquire the threat to other people that men have by saying so. Therefore no-one cares because there's no risk.0 -
Rishi did introduce a massive tax break for investment in equipment. Which seems to have had a major effect on the JCB order book, among other things.another_richard said:
Improving productivity requires investment and usually some hard work.DavidL said:
So is Truss. Both argue, to varying degrees that we are not borrowing as much as many other countries and this is one of the reason we are forecast to grow more slowly.MaxPB said:Wait, Penny is suggesting we axe the fiscal rules?!
Wtf, Tory MPs need to axe her. Borrowing to fund current spending is a terrible idea.
Personally, I think that this is rubbish. We are running a huge trade deficit. We have virtually full employment. We already have a large fiscal deficit. We have a serious problem with inflation. Rishi made the last point very forcefully in the Friday debate: more borrowing and spending is not an answer to inflation.
To get more growth we need to improve productivity. That is the key. It reduces inflation, increases wages, makes domestic production more competitive, reduces the pressure on the supply of labour. What do the candidates have to say about that?
Increasing spending is easier and enjoyable.0 -
The Treasury already sells gilts with 50 year maturity I believe, so what's the difference to a "War Bond"?LostPassword said:
You can't unilaterally change the terms of a bond issued without defaulting. That's the point of the bonds issue. So talk about turning them into war bonds is just a distraction from more borrowing.BartholomewRoberts said:
Of course you can treat half our existing debt as war bonds, war bonds are just bonds with an attitude attached to them not a different type of bond.LostPassword said:
I don't think you can just magic half our existing debt into war bonds. But that's by-the-by, because, when challenged on the policy during the debate, Truss defended it by explicitly arguing we could borrow more because our current debt levels were lower than other countries.BartholomewRoberts said:
From what I understand she's suggesting that Covid-related borrowing should be spread over a longer time period, like war bonds.LostPassword said:
I'm surprised that you have Truss as sound on the economy when her policy is to massively expand public borrowing in order to add masses more money to an inflation crisis.BartholomewRoberts said:Agreed with the thread header. Unfortunately Badenoch especially seems to be too interested in the "woke" issues, so I'd have her as my last choice preference.
From what I've seen of the candidates so far, ignoring my betting position (which puts Sunak as #1 preference for entirely book-related reasons) my preference would be:
1. Truss - Seems very sound on the economy etc, also came up with the excellent NI solution
2. Tugendhat - Less dry, but pro more housing which is always a big tick
3. Mordaunt - Neutral, seems to change her positions based on what's popular today, ironically like a continuity Boris
4. Sunak - Too high tax
5. Badenoch - Anti-woke
I appreciate that's probably a pretty unusual preference list.
I can't imagine you regarding the policy as sound if it were suggested by a Labour politician. I can understand that you would be well-disposed towards Truss because of her Brexit policy, but I think you're showing that to distort your judgement.
That's exactly what I suggested at the time of Sunak's stupid NI tax rise.
Day to day spending should not be getting borrowed, but Covid-spending should be
A large sum of the money Sunak's tax rise is going to clear the Covid backlog, despite hundreds of billions of borrowing. What I suggested is that previously was that the Treasury should calculate the cost of clearing the Covid backlog and add that to the Covid borrowing. That borrowing should then be amortised over a timespan rather than just a couple of years as Sunak wanted. We should then return to standard borrowing targets, taking into account the amortisation of Covid borrowing.
That's completely different to Brownian borrowing for day-to-day expenditure.
That is an explicit argument for borrowing to pay for tax cuts, to borrow to cover day-to-day expenditure rather than take the hard choice of taxing or cutting spending. And it's a massive inflationary kick to the economy when inflation is already high.
Borrowing to reverse the tax rise may be a tax cut but limited to Covid borrowing is also absolutely the right thing to do and what should have been done all along.
Reversing the NI hike may be "inflationary" but it is the right thing to do. If non-working people have to face a bit more inflation rather than putting all the burden on working people, then that's not an issue for me.
And on inflation, my pay is up 5%, my Dad's pensions are up by the rate of inflation. It's the working people who are losing out from inflation and will lose out from more inflation.
iirc War Bonds were sold to the general public in UK, not the usual sovereign debt investors (e.g. pension companies, insurance companies, foreign banks etc).
Buying such a bond was patriotic duty I recall.
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Cruachan IS a pumped storage site - that's why it was built: to store base load off Hunterston A Magnox nuke.Eabhal said:
Cruachan is another dam that can do the storage thing, I think? Huge height difference (as anyone who has done the Munros will tell you). Other dams like Monar, Clunie etc have bigger reservoirs but less drop.JosiasJessop said:
But it's not just about having 'hills': it's about having the right conditions, both in terms of height and geology. Then wait until the environmentalists complain that the upper pond's are going to destroy the environment (and I do have some sympathy with that...)Luckyguy1983 said:
Quite a few hills here in Scotland, lots in Wales too.pm215 said:
Isn't the problem with that that we don't actually have very many suitable sites to do that in this country? We do it at Dinorwig and maybe one or two other places, but you need quite a bit of height difference and the ability to have a reservoir of water at top and bottom.Luckyguy1983 said:Someone here last time this was discussed said quite sensibly that you can just use excess wind power to push water up a hill, then let it roll down and generate power when the wind stops. That sounded fairly sensible. Not sure how much excess there is at present.
An engineer friend told me that Cruachan could be used to kick-start the entire UK grid in the event of nuclear war or a big cyber attack. Used to have MoD types guarding it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunterston_A_nuclear_power_station
That link someone posted re suspended projects includes an expansion at Cruachan.
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Interesting, thanks.pm215 said:
Yep, and Scotland and Wales is exactly where all the existing sites are. Pretty sure you need something a bit more specific than just any old hill, though.Luckyguy1983 said:
Quite a few hills here in Scotland, lots in Wales too.pm215 said:
Isn't the problem with that that we don't actually have very many suitable sites to do that in this country? We do it at Dinorwig and maybe one or two other places, but you need quite a bit of height difference and the ability to have a reservoir of water at top and bottom.Luckyguy1983 said:Someone here last time this was discussed said quite sensibly that you can just use excess wind power to push water up a hill, then let it roll down and generate power when the wind stops. That sounded fairly sensible. Not sure how much excess there is at present.
I found a 2021 news article about some proposed new sites, which makes it sound like part of the problem is they're kind of borderline in pure economic terms, possibly for weird electricity generation market regulation reasons rather than inherently so. Sounds like the usual "free market very bad at long-term investment for strategic reasons, government unwilling to do it" problem (see also lack of new nuclear).0 -
Met office have just extended the warnings to Edinburgh. Girlfriend spent her night shift getting her hospital ready.Carnyx said:
Mm, yes, thanks - very glad not to be living further south with the heat coming. I really do not like heat and sun.CorrectHorseBattery said:Hey @Carnyx hope you are keeping well friend.
And keep your pecker up, old boy!
If you think it's hard sleeping at night in these temps, spare a thought for everyone trying to sleep during the day in the east of England this week.2 -
Nature finds a wayIshmaelZ said:I have been to the top of a lot of these hills. What there is, is pretty bloody interesting. And rare.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0008329761/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
The slag heaps of West Lothian now supports a range of rare fauna for example0 -
Cruachan is a marvellous piece of engineering and is one of the grid emergency restart systems. The other is in Wales (Dinorwig I think). It also happens to be near a lot of wind power which is rather useful.Eabhal said:
Cruachan is another dam that can do the storage thing, I think? Huge height difference (as anyone who has done the Munros will tell you). Other dams like Monar, Clunie etc have bigger reservoirs but less drop.JosiasJessop said:
But it's not just about having 'hills': it's about having the right conditions, both in terms of height and geology. Then wait until the environmentalists complain that the upper pond's are going to destroy the environment (and I do have some sympathy with that...)Luckyguy1983 said:
Quite a few hills here in Scotland, lots in Wales too.pm215 said:
Isn't the problem with that that we don't actually have very many suitable sites to do that in this country? We do it at Dinorwig and maybe one or two other places, but you need quite a bit of height difference and the ability to have a reservoir of water at top and bottom.Luckyguy1983 said:Someone here last time this was discussed said quite sensibly that you can just use excess wind power to push water up a hill, then let it roll down and generate power when the wind stops. That sounded fairly sensible. Not sure how much excess there is at present.
An engineer friend told me that Cruachan could be used to kick-start the entire UK grid in the event of nuclear war or a big cyber attack. Used to have MoD types guarding it.0 -
The schemes are already in place. Yet again, the energy market is holding them up. Actually, there could be something on this in the bill, I did not look at the renewables part.Malmesbury said:
It would involve changing the shape of the mountain concerned. Good luck with planning permission to decapitate Snowden….Luckyguy1983 said:
Doesn't stop people building the damn ugly windmills all over them in the first place. I'd imagine such a scheme would be less transformative to the lansdscape than that.Malmesbury said:
The problem is that people like those hills as they are.Luckyguy1983 said:
Quite a few hills here in Scotland, lots in Wales too.pm215 said:
Isn't the problem with that that we don't actually have very many suitable sites to do that in this country? We do it at Dinorwig and maybe one or two other places, but you need quite a bit of height difference and the ability to have a reservoir of water at top and bottom.Luckyguy1983 said:Someone here last time this was discussed said quite sensibly that you can just use excess wind power to push water up a hill, then let it roll down and generate power when the wind stops. That sounded fairly sensible. Not sure how much excess there is at present.
Chopping the top of mountains will be strongly resisted.0 -
It was. Huge rallies and moral pressure, and tanks and planes visiting. About 50% negative rate of return by 1924 or something like that, thanks to wartime inflation.rottenborough said:
The Treasury already sells gilts with 50 year maturity I believe, so what's the difference to a "War Bond"?LostPassword said:
You can't unilaterally change the terms of a bond issued without defaulting. That's the point of the bonds issue. So talk about turning them into war bonds is just a distraction from more borrowing.BartholomewRoberts said:
Of course you can treat half our existing debt as war bonds, war bonds are just bonds with an attitude attached to them not a different type of bond.LostPassword said:
I don't think you can just magic half our existing debt into war bonds. But that's by-the-by, because, when challenged on the policy during the debate, Truss defended it by explicitly arguing we could borrow more because our current debt levels were lower than other countries.BartholomewRoberts said:
From what I understand she's suggesting that Covid-related borrowing should be spread over a longer time period, like war bonds.LostPassword said:
I'm surprised that you have Truss as sound on the economy when her policy is to massively expand public borrowing in order to add masses more money to an inflation crisis.BartholomewRoberts said:Agreed with the thread header. Unfortunately Badenoch especially seems to be too interested in the "woke" issues, so I'd have her as my last choice preference.
From what I've seen of the candidates so far, ignoring my betting position (which puts Sunak as #1 preference for entirely book-related reasons) my preference would be:
1. Truss - Seems very sound on the economy etc, also came up with the excellent NI solution
2. Tugendhat - Less dry, but pro more housing which is always a big tick
3. Mordaunt - Neutral, seems to change her positions based on what's popular today, ironically like a continuity Boris
4. Sunak - Too high tax
5. Badenoch - Anti-woke
I appreciate that's probably a pretty unusual preference list.
I can't imagine you regarding the policy as sound if it were suggested by a Labour politician. I can understand that you would be well-disposed towards Truss because of her Brexit policy, but I think you're showing that to distort your judgement.
That's exactly what I suggested at the time of Sunak's stupid NI tax rise.
Day to day spending should not be getting borrowed, but Covid-spending should be
A large sum of the money Sunak's tax rise is going to clear the Covid backlog, despite hundreds of billions of borrowing. What I suggested is that previously was that the Treasury should calculate the cost of clearing the Covid backlog and add that to the Covid borrowing. That borrowing should then be amortised over a timespan rather than just a couple of years as Sunak wanted. We should then return to standard borrowing targets, taking into account the amortisation of Covid borrowing.
That's completely different to Brownian borrowing for day-to-day expenditure.
That is an explicit argument for borrowing to pay for tax cuts, to borrow to cover day-to-day expenditure rather than take the hard choice of taxing or cutting spending. And it's a massive inflationary kick to the economy when inflation is already high.
Borrowing to reverse the tax rise may be a tax cut but limited to Covid borrowing is also absolutely the right thing to do and what should have been done all along.
Reversing the NI hike may be "inflationary" but it is the right thing to do. If non-working people have to face a bit more inflation rather than putting all the burden on working people, then that's not an issue for me.
And on inflation, my pay is up 5%, my Dad's pensions are up by the rate of inflation. It's the working people who are losing out from inflation and will lose out from more inflation.
iirc War Bonds were sold to the general public in UK, not the usual sovereign debt investors (e.g. pension companies, insurance companies, foreign banks etc).
Buying such a bond was patriotic duty I recall.
You couldn't redeem them, either, so they were still knocling around in my family finances into the 1970s at least. The one occasion to redeem was very temporary, at one point when HMG wanted to reduce the interest rate unilaterally, and had to offer redemption as an alternative.
You sure had to be bloody patriotic to buy the things!0 -
No, but they might make Kemi PM because she isn't the others.rottenborough said:
Interesting.Scott_xP said:It really is conceivable that Kemi Badenoch makes the final round - much more so than Truss - and she could beat Sunak.
If she gets ahead of Truss by Tues, she could edge out Mordaunt. Here's how:
https://twitter.com/harrytlambert/status/1548432561579253761
Will the members really put someone this inexperienced in as PM because she is sound on women's toilets?
In the same way Major and IDS won.2 -
Quickfire round
Tugendhat faces a round of quickfire questions.
Would you intervene if China invade Taiwan?
I would definitely support our Japanese, Indonesian and Philippine allies.
Would you leave the European Convention on Human Rights?
No.
Will you build the whole of HS2?
Yes.
Are you fully committed by net zero by 2050?
Fully committed. What I need now is the policy and the planning, and nobody has set it up yet.
Would you privatise Channel 4?
No
Would you allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a generational decision - a generation hasn't passed.
Would you work for a prime minster who has broken the law?
Well I haven't worked for this one.
Does the next PM have to come from outside Johnson's cabinet?
We need a clean start.
It's Mordaunt's turn for a round of quickfire questions.
Are there any circumstances under which you would allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a settled question. No.
Are you committed to net zero by 2050?
Yes - but it has to not clobber people and must support levelling up .
Will you privatise Channel 4?
Not a priority for me.
Would you give Boris Johnson a cabinet position?
I don't think he'd be around to serve.
Will you withdraw the UK from the ECHR?
No.
Tom’s answers may have been a tad stronger? But to what extent is this the candidate themself solely to blame, or the team around them can help them prepare better - rational thought through policy and strong forms of words?1 -
The technology is being developed so that normal hills would be suitable - using enclosed reservoirs and a water solution that is denser so that more energy is stored per unit volume.pm215 said:
Isn't the problem with that that we don't actually have very many suitable sites to do that in this country? We do it at Dinorwig and maybe one or two other places, but you need quite a bit of height difference and the ability to have a reservoir of water at top and bottom.Luckyguy1983 said:Someone here last time this was discussed said quite sensibly that you can just use excess wind power to push water up a hill, then let it roll down and generate power when the wind stops. That sounded fairly sensible. Not sure how much excess there is at present.
There's a massive amount happening in energy storage technology, but it's possible that batteries will steal a march on them all because they're so much simpler to scale and implement.0 -
Required because "the grid" consumes a lot of energy.Eabhal said:An engineer friend told me that Cruachan could be used to kick-start the entire UK grid in the event of nuclear war or a big cyber attack. Used to have MoD types guarding it.
The systems at Torness take 60MW to run for example1 -
In fairness politicians talk about training, education and, in very general terms, investment. But I am not seeing a policy mix that actually brings this into focus with a view to raising productivity. As for improving mobility in the housing market, overcoming transportation blockages, maximising our existing resources, nada.glw said:
I can honestly say I don't recall ever hearing any British politician say something substantive about the issue. Identifying a problem is easy peasy. Fixing it, that's what we want to hear ideas about.DavidL said:To get more growth we need to improve productivity. That is the key. It reduces inflation, increases wages, makes domestic production more competitive, reduces the pressure on the supply of labour. What do the candidates have to say about that?
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Jesus Christ.
In case anyone was feeling unduly chipper, let me relate a conversation I just had.
Walking down Great Ducie Street, Manchester, I saw an altercation between a gaunt looking fella in a tracksuit and a shabby looking old woman. I caught the eye of the fella, who apologised, and, in step, going in the same direction, explained himself: that was his mum, she was on heroin and couldn't sort himself out, and he was looking like being made homeless because she kept going round to his flat and causing trouble. And he was almost totally blind, as was his sister, having been born to a woman on heroin. And he had almost no teeth, since being hit in the face with a tire iron six months ago. And just one thing after another. Here was a fella who life took one gigantic shit on at the start followed by a succession of smaller but still substantial ones regularly along the way.
I say this not to make any particular point but just to reflect on how unbelievably awful some people have it.5 -
History is a wonderful subject and there are thousands of figures from history it is interesting to learn about, but primary school children aren’t going to learn everything at once, so we pick out a few national “heroes” for them. Who we pick tells us much about our society.Benpointer said:
Surely Seacole is only 'an obscure figure' because she was overlooked for a century due to her skin colour. C.f. Florence Nightingale.Foxy said:
I must admit that I do find the focus on such an obscure figure rather odd.bondegezou said:
I agree about autocorrect. I fail to see the problem with teaching kids about Mary Seacole.Cookie said:
Seacole. Bloody autocorrect.Cookie said:
But it is, Rochdale. Or at least, in a sample size of 5 secondary schools I have visited recently, the incidence of it was 100%.RochdalePioneers said:
If that was happening en masse then perhaps.Cookie said:
But it's not really an either/or, it it? We'll be cold and hungry anyway. Gas has got much more expensive and no amount of accounting tricks will change that. Whereas we can choose whether we invite Stonewall in to our institutions to advance their gender agenda.RochdalePioneers said:
The gamble for the Tories is this: as people get cold and hungry this winter, will the supposed threat of cock-wielding trans deviants persuade them to ignore their hunger and cold and the anger that generates towards the Tories, and instead be kept warm in a Mail-induced fury about bathrooms?JonWC said:I think TSE is wrong on this - at least for some aspects of the culture war. Even on a heavily "champagne" forum like this, I'm sure many of us are aware of some quite extraordinary things that have been said to children at schools, anecdotes worth as much as a the cited focus group. When it comes to a secret ballot with the government at stake I think the results may surprise.
To borrow the Chilean saying, trans extremism is god's way of keeping the left out of power forever.
But for the record, if government could either prevent food prices from doubling or stop schools from advancing their ultra-woke agenda, I would rather they stopped schools from advancing their ultra-woke agenda. I don't watch kids growing up with a sense of shame about being straight and white.
But as it isn't...
If you infer the schools' orders of priorities from the visibility of display materials, they are:
1) now you're in secondary school, you need to pick a sexuality and identity from this list. This is very important and if you're not sure it's probably because you're bi, rather than, you know, 11 or 12 and not actually sexual at all yet. Why not join the Rainbow Club?
=2) woohoo for BLM! Mary Seacombe and Rosa Parks. Why not join the equality club?
=2) the environment: we're all doomed.
4) while you're here, if you want to indulge in a little education, or perhaps sport, that would also be fine.
I work with health data, so Florence Nightingale is my hero, a hugely important figure in the development of my field. I learnt about Nightingale when I was young, but I wasn’t told anything about what makes her so significant then. I wasn’t told she was the first female member of the Royal Statistical Society, I wasn’t told about her work with sex workers, I wasn’t told she had a pet owl. I was told the Lady with the Lamp myth, a regurgitated bit of Victoria propaganda. I wish I had been told about Nightingale the statistician.
Seacole is an interesting figure. She had much less impact on the world than Nightingale, but much more impact than a black woman from Jamaica could usually have. The myths we tell children today about Seacole are much like the myths I was taught about Nightingale. They are a simplification of any historical truth for the purpose of telling a story.
The Right complain about this when it applies to Seacole, but seem unwilling to accept that what they learnt as kids were just as much stories.
Kids needs stories, and as they get older, we can unpack those stories and move to history. I think Seacole and Nightingale are both figures that can be inspirational, but the truth behind both is complicated and they are both figures of their time. (For example, Nightingale was racist and rejected germ theory.)6 -
Quite; just been looking. At least Tuesday is forecast to be overcast.Eabhal said:
Met office have just extended the warnings to Edinburgh. Girlfriend spent her night shift getting her hospital ready.Carnyx said:
Mm, yes, thanks - very glad not to be living further south with the heat coming. I really do not like heat and sun.CorrectHorseBattery said:Hey @Carnyx hope you are keeping well friend.
And keep your pecker up, old boy!
If you think it's hard sleeping at night in these temps, spare a thought for everyone trying to sleep during the day in the east of England this week.0 -
Was the HS2 question not asked for Penny?MoonRabbit said:Quickfire round
Tugendhat faces a round of quickfire questions.
Would you intervene if China invade Taiwan?
I would definitely support our Japanese, Indonesian and Philippine allies.
Would you leave the European Convention on Human Rights?
No.
Will you build the whole of HS2?
Yes.
Are you fully committed by net zero by 2050?
Fully committed. What I need now is the policy and the planning, and nobody has set it up yet.
Would you privatise Channel 4?
No
Would you allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a generational decision - a generation hasn't passed.
Would you work for a prime minster who has broken the law?
Well I haven't worked for this one.
Does the next PM have to come from outside Johnson's cabinet?
We need a clean start.
It's Mordaunt's turn for a round of quickfire questions.
Are there any circumstances under which you would allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a settled question. No.
Are you committed to net zero by 2050?
Yes - but it has to not clobber people and must support levelling up .
Will you privatise Channel 4?
Not a priority for me.
Would you give Boris Johnson a cabinet position?
I don't think he'd be around to serve.
Will you withdraw the UK from the ECHR?
No.
Tom’s answers may have been a tad stronger? But to what extent is this the candidate themself solely to blame, or the team around them can help them prepare better - rational thought through policy and strong forms of words?0 -
Unhappiness with schools priorities is a big driver for the home schooling movement in the US tbf.Cookie said:
But it is, Rochdale. Or at least, in a sample size of 5 secondary schools I have visited recently, the incidence of it was 100%.RochdalePioneers said:
If that was happening en masse then perhaps.Cookie said:
But it's not really an either/or, it it? We'll be cold and hungry anyway. Gas has got much more expensive and no amount of accounting tricks will change that. Whereas we can choose whether we invite Stonewall in to our institutions to advance their gender agenda.RochdalePioneers said:
The gamble for the Tories is this: as people get cold and hungry this winter, will the supposed threat of cock-wielding trans deviants persuade them to ignore their hunger and cold and the anger that generates towards the Tories, and instead be kept warm in a Mail-induced fury about bathrooms?JonWC said:I think TSE is wrong on this - at least for some aspects of the culture war. Even on a heavily "champagne" forum like this, I'm sure many of us are aware of some quite extraordinary things that have been said to children at schools, anecdotes worth as much as a the cited focus group. When it comes to a secret ballot with the government at stake I think the results may surprise.
To borrow the Chilean saying, trans extremism is god's way of keeping the left out of power forever.
But for the record, if government could either prevent food prices from doubling or stop schools from advancing their ultra-woke agenda, I would rather they stopped schools from advancing their ultra-woke agenda. I don't watch kids growing up with a sense of shame about being straight and white.
But as it isn't...
If you infer the schools' orders of priorities from the visibility of display materials, they are:
1) now you're in secondary school, you need to pick a sexuality and identity from this list. This is very important and if you're not sure it's probably because you're bi, rather than, you know, 11 or 12 and not actually sexual at all yet. Why not join the Rainbow Club?
=2) woohoo for BLM! Mary Seacombe and Rosa Parks. Why not join the equality club?
=2) the environment: we're all doomed.
4) while you're here, if you want to indulge in a little education, or perhaps sport, that would also be fine.
1 -
It is the same mentality with voters who gave Boris 80 seat majority is it not? When it comes to the general election, voters will much prefer Kemi as PM than Starmer, probably by about 2:1another_richard said:
No, but they might make Kemi PM because she isn't the others.rottenborough said:
Interesting.Scott_xP said:It really is conceivable that Kemi Badenoch makes the final round - much more so than Truss - and she could beat Sunak.
If she gets ahead of Truss by Tues, she could edge out Mordaunt. Here's how:
https://twitter.com/harrytlambert/status/1548432561579253761
Will the members really put someone this inexperienced in as PM because she is sound on women's toilets?
In the same way Major and IDS won.
Kemi has to be either the one Labour fear most, or the one Labour are most underestimating.
The more I think about it, Cummings closeness to Gove, I am sure he is helping Badenoch.0 -
Mr. Cookie, yikes, that sounds endlessly awful for the poor man.0
-
Batteries are harder to stop. A couple of shipping containers at each supercharger site. If land usage is an issue, easy to dig a hole and site them underground. Multiply by thousands of site…LostPassword said:
The technology is being developed so that normal hills would be suitable - using enclosed reservoirs and a water solution that is denser so that more energy is stored per unit volume.pm215 said:
Isn't the problem with that that we don't actually have very many suitable sites to do that in this country? We do it at Dinorwig and maybe one or two other places, but you need quite a bit of height difference and the ability to have a reservoir of water at top and bottom.Luckyguy1983 said:Someone here last time this was discussed said quite sensibly that you can just use excess wind power to push water up a hill, then let it roll down and generate power when the wind stops. That sounded fairly sensible. Not sure how much excess there is at present.
There's a massive amount happening in energy storage technology, but it's possible that batteries will steal a march on them all because they're so much simpler to scale and implement.
It will happen unless someone works out a way to stop it.
As to power storage, I’m curious about ideas using molten tin. Very, very dense and we have lots of experience in handling it in massive quantities - the glass industry.1 -
I have lifted this off of Sky, I was in a service when it was live, but it looks like they had tailored questions.Luckyguy1983 said:
Was the HS2 question not asked for Penny?MoonRabbit said:Quickfire round
Tugendhat faces a round of quickfire questions.
Would you intervene if China invade Taiwan?
I would definitely support our Japanese, Indonesian and Philippine allies.
Would you leave the European Convention on Human Rights?
No.
Will you build the whole of HS2?
Yes.
Are you fully committed by net zero by 2050?
Fully committed. What I need now is the policy and the planning, and nobody has set it up yet.
Would you privatise Channel 4?
No
Would you allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a generational decision - a generation hasn't passed.
Would you work for a prime minster who has broken the law?
Well I haven't worked for this one.
Does the next PM have to come from outside Johnson's cabinet?
We need a clean start.
It's Mordaunt's turn for a round of quickfire questions.
Are there any circumstances under which you would allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a settled question. No.
Are you committed to net zero by 2050?
Yes - but it has to not clobber people and must support levelling up .
Will you privatise Channel 4?
Not a priority for me.
Would you give Boris Johnson a cabinet position?
I don't think he'd be around to serve.
Will you withdraw the UK from the ECHR?
No.
Tom’s answers may have been a tad stronger? But to what extent is this the candidate themself solely to blame, or the team around them can help them prepare better - rational thought through policy and strong forms of words?
Tom is actually saying, no, I won’t help Taiwan?0 -
The wife once found some sunscreen that promised not to need reapplication during the day. Found out why during a 10 mile race in the sun - it stopped me from sweating... Very unpleasant experience.DavidL said:
The Royal family is just not that lucky.Farooq said:Thoughts and prayers to the Royal Family tomorrow. If Andrew can't sweat he's surely going to die in this heat.
2 -
Pretty much agree. If they pick Sunak the next election is 50/50. Badenoch or Mordaunt, Labour are favourites. If they pick Truss it's nailed on for Labour.Icarus said:Useful cut out and keep guide on the candidates for Tory MPs in todays Observer:
Tom Tugendhat: Labour fear factor 3/5 He has polled well among voters at large but his premiership would come under instant attack from the right.
Kemi Badenoch; Labour fear factor 2/5 Inexperienced, but a figure with a strong personality that could make Starmer look cautious and dull.
Penny Mordaunt: Labour fear factor 3/5 An unpredictable threat, but beatable.
Rishi Sunak: Labour fear factor 4/5 Competent and convincing – Labour’s biggest concern among the contenders.
Liz Truss: Labour fear factor 1/5 Truss is the opponent Labour wants.0 -
Sure and Britain already has a relatively large proportion of long-dated bonds. So what is Truss going to change that would enable us to borrow £30+bn more a year without it bankrupting the country?rottenborough said:
The Treasury already sells gilts with 50 year maturity I believe, so what's the difference to a "War Bond"?LostPassword said:
You can't unilaterally change the terms of a bond issued without defaulting. That's the point of the bonds issue. So talk about turning them into war bonds is just a distraction from more borrowing.BartholomewRoberts said:
Of course you can treat half our existing debt as war bonds, war bonds are just bonds with an attitude attached to them not a different type of bond.LostPassword said:
I don't think you can just magic half our existing debt into war bonds. But that's by-the-by, because, when challenged on the policy during the debate, Truss defended it by explicitly arguing we could borrow more because our current debt levels were lower than other countries.BartholomewRoberts said:
From what I understand she's suggesting that Covid-related borrowing should be spread over a longer time period, like war bonds.LostPassword said:
I'm surprised that you have Truss as sound on the economy when her policy is to massively expand public borrowing in order to add masses more money to an inflation crisis.BartholomewRoberts said:Agreed with the thread header. Unfortunately Badenoch especially seems to be too interested in the "woke" issues, so I'd have her as my last choice preference.
From what I've seen of the candidates so far, ignoring my betting position (which puts Sunak as #1 preference for entirely book-related reasons) my preference would be:
1. Truss - Seems very sound on the economy etc, also came up with the excellent NI solution
2. Tugendhat - Less dry, but pro more housing which is always a big tick
3. Mordaunt - Neutral, seems to change her positions based on what's popular today, ironically like a continuity Boris
4. Sunak - Too high tax
5. Badenoch - Anti-woke
I appreciate that's probably a pretty unusual preference list.
I can't imagine you regarding the policy as sound if it were suggested by a Labour politician. I can understand that you would be well-disposed towards Truss because of her Brexit policy, but I think you're showing that to distort your judgement.
That's exactly what I suggested at the time of Sunak's stupid NI tax rise.
Day to day spending should not be getting borrowed, but Covid-spending should be
A large sum of the money Sunak's tax rise is going to clear the Covid backlog, despite hundreds of billions of borrowing. What I suggested is that previously was that the Treasury should calculate the cost of clearing the Covid backlog and add that to the Covid borrowing. That borrowing should then be amortised over a timespan rather than just a couple of years as Sunak wanted. We should then return to standard borrowing targets, taking into account the amortisation of Covid borrowing.
That's completely different to Brownian borrowing for day-to-day expenditure.
That is an explicit argument for borrowing to pay for tax cuts, to borrow to cover day-to-day expenditure rather than take the hard choice of taxing or cutting spending. And it's a massive inflationary kick to the economy when inflation is already high.
Borrowing to reverse the tax rise may be a tax cut but limited to Covid borrowing is also absolutely the right thing to do and what should have been done all along.
Reversing the NI hike may be "inflationary" but it is the right thing to do. If non-working people have to face a bit more inflation rather than putting all the burden on working people, then that's not an issue for me.
And on inflation, my pay is up 5%, my Dad's pensions are up by the rate of inflation. It's the working people who are losing out from inflation and will lose out from more inflation.
iirc War Bonds were sold to the general public in UK, not the usual sovereign debt investors (e.g. pension companies, insurance companies, foreign banks etc).
Buying such a bond was patriotic duty I recall.0 -
I think George O finally redeemed them in 2015?Carnyx said:
It was. Huge rallies and moral pressure, and tanks and planes visiting. About 50% negative rate of return by 1924 or something like that, thanks to wartime inflation.rottenborough said:
The Treasury already sells gilts with 50 year maturity I believe, so what's the difference to a "War Bond"?LostPassword said:
You can't unilaterally change the terms of a bond issued without defaulting. That's the point of the bonds issue. So talk about turning them into war bonds is just a distraction from more borrowing.BartholomewRoberts said:
Of course you can treat half our existing debt as war bonds, war bonds are just bonds with an attitude attached to them not a different type of bond.LostPassword said:
I don't think you can just magic half our existing debt into war bonds. But that's by-the-by, because, when challenged on the policy during the debate, Truss defended it by explicitly arguing we could borrow more because our current debt levels were lower than other countries.BartholomewRoberts said:
From what I understand she's suggesting that Covid-related borrowing should be spread over a longer time period, like war bonds.LostPassword said:
I'm surprised that you have Truss as sound on the economy when her policy is to massively expand public borrowing in order to add masses more money to an inflation crisis.BartholomewRoberts said:Agreed with the thread header. Unfortunately Badenoch especially seems to be too interested in the "woke" issues, so I'd have her as my last choice preference.
From what I've seen of the candidates so far, ignoring my betting position (which puts Sunak as #1 preference for entirely book-related reasons) my preference would be:
1. Truss - Seems very sound on the economy etc, also came up with the excellent NI solution
2. Tugendhat - Less dry, but pro more housing which is always a big tick
3. Mordaunt - Neutral, seems to change her positions based on what's popular today, ironically like a continuity Boris
4. Sunak - Too high tax
5. Badenoch - Anti-woke
I appreciate that's probably a pretty unusual preference list.
I can't imagine you regarding the policy as sound if it were suggested by a Labour politician. I can understand that you would be well-disposed towards Truss because of her Brexit policy, but I think you're showing that to distort your judgement.
That's exactly what I suggested at the time of Sunak's stupid NI tax rise.
Day to day spending should not be getting borrowed, but Covid-spending should be
A large sum of the money Sunak's tax rise is going to clear the Covid backlog, despite hundreds of billions of borrowing. What I suggested is that previously was that the Treasury should calculate the cost of clearing the Covid backlog and add that to the Covid borrowing. That borrowing should then be amortised over a timespan rather than just a couple of years as Sunak wanted. We should then return to standard borrowing targets, taking into account the amortisation of Covid borrowing.
That's completely different to Brownian borrowing for day-to-day expenditure.
That is an explicit argument for borrowing to pay for tax cuts, to borrow to cover day-to-day expenditure rather than take the hard choice of taxing or cutting spending. And it's a massive inflationary kick to the economy when inflation is already high.
Borrowing to reverse the tax rise may be a tax cut but limited to Covid borrowing is also absolutely the right thing to do and what should have been done all along.
Reversing the NI hike may be "inflationary" but it is the right thing to do. If non-working people have to face a bit more inflation rather than putting all the burden on working people, then that's not an issue for me.
And on inflation, my pay is up 5%, my Dad's pensions are up by the rate of inflation. It's the working people who are losing out from inflation and will lose out from more inflation.
iirc War Bonds were sold to the general public in UK, not the usual sovereign debt investors (e.g. pension companies, insurance companies, foreign banks etc).
Buying such a bond was patriotic duty I recall.
You couldn't redeem them, either, so they were still knocling around in my family finances into the 1970s at least. The one occasion to redeem was very temporary, at one point when HMG wanted to reduce the interest rate unilaterally, and had to offer redemption as an alternative.
You sure had to be bloody patriotic to buy the things!0 -
Rather off-topic, but I seem to remember someone asking about the weather in Dundee over the next couple of days. Looks like the amber warning has been extended to cover it https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-621965980
-
The give Boris cabinet job is interesting. If he thought it was his best chance of a comeback, and Truss offered him Foreign Secretary, Boris would take it wouldn’t he? In fact right now it would sort of suit him and the Conservatives?MoonRabbit said:
I have lifted this off of Sky, I was in a service when it was live, but it looks like they had tailored questions.Luckyguy1983 said:
Was the HS2 question not asked for Penny?MoonRabbit said:Quickfire round
Tugendhat faces a round of quickfire questions.
Would you intervene if China invade Taiwan?
I would definitely support our Japanese, Indonesian and Philippine allies.
Would you leave the European Convention on Human Rights?
No.
Will you build the whole of HS2?
Yes.
Are you fully committed by net zero by 2050?
Fully committed. What I need now is the policy and the planning, and nobody has set it up yet.
Would you privatise Channel 4?
No
Would you allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a generational decision - a generation hasn't passed.
Would you work for a prime minster who has broken the law?
Well I haven't worked for this one.
Does the next PM have to come from outside Johnson's cabinet?
We need a clean start.
It's Mordaunt's turn for a round of quickfire questions.
Are there any circumstances under which you would allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a settled question. No.
Are you committed to net zero by 2050?
Yes - but it has to not clobber people and must support levelling up .
Will you privatise Channel 4?
Not a priority for me.
Would you give Boris Johnson a cabinet position?
I don't think he'd be around to serve.
Will you withdraw the UK from the ECHR?
No.
Tom’s answers may have been a tad stronger? But to what extent is this the candidate themself solely to blame, or the team around them can help them prepare better - rational thought through policy and strong forms of words?
Tom is actually saying, no, I won’t help Taiwan?
Foreign Secretary Boris cannot be ruled out imo.0 -
No.MoonRabbit said:
I have lifted this off of Sky, I was in a service when it was live, but it looks like they had tailored questions.Luckyguy1983 said:
Was the HS2 question not asked for Penny?MoonRabbit said:Quickfire round
Tugendhat faces a round of quickfire questions.
Would you intervene if China invade Taiwan?
I would definitely support our Japanese, Indonesian and Philippine allies.
Would you leave the European Convention on Human Rights?
No.
Will you build the whole of HS2?
Yes.
Are you fully committed by net zero by 2050?
Fully committed. What I need now is the policy and the planning, and nobody has set it up yet.
Would you privatise Channel 4?
No
Would you allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a generational decision - a generation hasn't passed.
Would you work for a prime minster who has broken the law?
Well I haven't worked for this one.
Does the next PM have to come from outside Johnson's cabinet?
We need a clean start.
It's Mordaunt's turn for a round of quickfire questions.
Are there any circumstances under which you would allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a settled question. No.
Are you committed to net zero by 2050?
Yes - but it has to not clobber people and must support levelling up .
Will you privatise Channel 4?
Not a priority for me.
Would you give Boris Johnson a cabinet position?
I don't think he'd be around to serve.
Will you withdraw the UK from the ECHR?
No.
Tom’s answers may have been a tad stronger? But to what extent is this the candidate themself solely to blame, or the team around them can help them prepare better - rational thought through policy and strong forms of words?
Tom is actually saying, no, I won’t help Taiwan?
He's repeating long-standing FO Policy.0 -
US Ambassador is the only govt role Boris might be interested in.MoonRabbit said:
The give Boris cabinet job is interesting. If he thought it was his best chance of a comeback, and Truss offered him Foreign Secretary, Boris would take it wouldn’t he? In fact right now it would sort of suit him and the Conservatives?MoonRabbit said:
I have lifted this off of Sky, I was in a service when it was live, but it looks like they had tailored questions.Luckyguy1983 said:
Was the HS2 question not asked for Penny?MoonRabbit said:Quickfire round
Tugendhat faces a round of quickfire questions.
Would you intervene if China invade Taiwan?
I would definitely support our Japanese, Indonesian and Philippine allies.
Would you leave the European Convention on Human Rights?
No.
Will you build the whole of HS2?
Yes.
Are you fully committed by net zero by 2050?
Fully committed. What I need now is the policy and the planning, and nobody has set it up yet.
Would you privatise Channel 4?
No
Would you allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a generational decision - a generation hasn't passed.
Would you work for a prime minster who has broken the law?
Well I haven't worked for this one.
Does the next PM have to come from outside Johnson's cabinet?
We need a clean start.
It's Mordaunt's turn for a round of quickfire questions.
Are there any circumstances under which you would allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a settled question. No.
Are you committed to net zero by 2050?
Yes - but it has to not clobber people and must support levelling up .
Will you privatise Channel 4?
Not a priority for me.
Would you give Boris Johnson a cabinet position?
I don't think he'd be around to serve.
Will you withdraw the UK from the ECHR?
No.
Tom’s answers may have been a tad stronger? But to what extent is this the candidate themself solely to blame, or the team around them can help them prepare better - rational thought through policy and strong forms of words?
Tom is actually saying, no, I won’t help Taiwan?
Foreign Secretary Boris cannot be ruled out imo.0 -
Second World War had postwar credits which were equally difficult to redeemCarnyx said:
It was. Huge rallies and moral pressure, and tanks and planes visiting. About 50% negative rate of return by 1924 or something like that, thanks to wartime inflation.rottenborough said:
The Treasury already sells gilts with 50 year maturity I believe, so what's the difference to a "War Bond"?LostPassword said:
You can't unilaterally change the terms of a bond issued without defaulting. That's the point of the bonds issue. So talk about turning them into war bonds is just a distraction from more borrowing.BartholomewRoberts said:
Of course you can treat half our existing debt as war bonds, war bonds are just bonds with an attitude attached to them not a different type of bond.LostPassword said:
I don't think you can just magic half our existing debt into war bonds. But that's by-the-by, because, when challenged on the policy during the debate, Truss defended it by explicitly arguing we could borrow more because our current debt levels were lower than other countries.BartholomewRoberts said:
From what I understand she's suggesting that Covid-related borrowing should be spread over a longer time period, like war bonds.LostPassword said:
I'm surprised that you have Truss as sound on the economy when her policy is to massively expand public borrowing in order to add masses more money to an inflation crisis.BartholomewRoberts said:Agreed with the thread header. Unfortunately Badenoch especially seems to be too interested in the "woke" issues, so I'd have her as my last choice preference.
From what I've seen of the candidates so far, ignoring my betting position (which puts Sunak as #1 preference for entirely book-related reasons) my preference would be:
1. Truss - Seems very sound on the economy etc, also came up with the excellent NI solution
2. Tugendhat - Less dry, but pro more housing which is always a big tick
3. Mordaunt - Neutral, seems to change her positions based on what's popular today, ironically like a continuity Boris
4. Sunak - Too high tax
5. Badenoch - Anti-woke
I appreciate that's probably a pretty unusual preference list.
I can't imagine you regarding the policy as sound if it were suggested by a Labour politician. I can understand that you would be well-disposed towards Truss because of her Brexit policy, but I think you're showing that to distort your judgement.
That's exactly what I suggested at the time of Sunak's stupid NI tax rise.
Day to day spending should not be getting borrowed, but Covid-spending should be
A large sum of the money Sunak's tax rise is going to clear the Covid backlog, despite hundreds of billions of borrowing. What I suggested is that previously was that the Treasury should calculate the cost of clearing the Covid backlog and add that to the Covid borrowing. That borrowing should then be amortised over a timespan rather than just a couple of years as Sunak wanted. We should then return to standard borrowing targets, taking into account the amortisation of Covid borrowing.
That's completely different to Brownian borrowing for day-to-day expenditure.
That is an explicit argument for borrowing to pay for tax cuts, to borrow to cover day-to-day expenditure rather than take the hard choice of taxing or cutting spending. And it's a massive inflationary kick to the economy when inflation is already high.
Borrowing to reverse the tax rise may be a tax cut but limited to Covid borrowing is also absolutely the right thing to do and what should have been done all along.
Reversing the NI hike may be "inflationary" but it is the right thing to do. If non-working people have to face a bit more inflation rather than putting all the burden on working people, then that's not an issue for me.
And on inflation, my pay is up 5%, my Dad's pensions are up by the rate of inflation. It's the working people who are losing out from inflation and will lose out from more inflation.
iirc War Bonds were sold to the general public in UK, not the usual sovereign debt investors (e.g. pension companies, insurance companies, foreign banks etc).
Buying such a bond was patriotic duty I recall.
You couldn't redeem them, either, so they were still knocling around in my family finances into the 1970s at least. The one occasion to redeem was very temporary, at one point when HMG wanted to reduce the interest rate unilaterally, and had to offer redemption as an alternative.
You sure had to be bloody patriotic to buy the things!
0 -
Oh tubbs that sounds terrible!turbotubbs said:
The wife once found some sunscreen that promised not to need reapplication during the day. Found out why during a 10 mile race in the sun - it stopped me from sweating... Very unpleasant experience.DavidL said:
The Royal family is just not that lucky.Farooq said:Thoughts and prayers to the Royal Family tomorrow. If Andrew can't sweat he's surely going to die in this heat.
0 -
Boris needs to earn some hard cash . A cabinet job or Ambassadorship wouldn't be any use.noneoftheabove said:
US Ambassador is the only govt role Boris might be interested in.MoonRabbit said:
The give Boris cabinet job is interesting. If he thought it was his best chance of a comeback, and Truss offered him Foreign Secretary, Boris would take it wouldn’t he? In fact right now it would sort of suit him and the Conservatives?MoonRabbit said:
I have lifted this off of Sky, I was in a service when it was live, but it looks like they had tailored questions.Luckyguy1983 said:
Was the HS2 question not asked for Penny?MoonRabbit said:Quickfire round
Tugendhat faces a round of quickfire questions.
Would you intervene if China invade Taiwan?
I would definitely support our Japanese, Indonesian and Philippine allies.
Would you leave the European Convention on Human Rights?
No.
Will you build the whole of HS2?
Yes.
Are you fully committed by net zero by 2050?
Fully committed. What I need now is the policy and the planning, and nobody has set it up yet.
Would you privatise Channel 4?
No
Would you allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a generational decision - a generation hasn't passed.
Would you work for a prime minster who has broken the law?
Well I haven't worked for this one.
Does the next PM have to come from outside Johnson's cabinet?
We need a clean start.
It's Mordaunt's turn for a round of quickfire questions.
Are there any circumstances under which you would allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a settled question. No.
Are you committed to net zero by 2050?
Yes - but it has to not clobber people and must support levelling up .
Will you privatise Channel 4?
Not a priority for me.
Would you give Boris Johnson a cabinet position?
I don't think he'd be around to serve.
Will you withdraw the UK from the ECHR?
No.
Tom’s answers may have been a tad stronger? But to what extent is this the candidate themself solely to blame, or the team around them can help them prepare better - rational thought through policy and strong forms of words?
Tom is actually saying, no, I won’t help Taiwan?
Foreign Secretary Boris cannot be ruled out imo.0 -
Yep, when the bankl base rate fell so low as to make it worth HMG's while. Found this:IshmaelZ said:
I think George O finally redeemed them in 2015?Carnyx said:
It was. Huge rallies and moral pressure, and tanks and planes visiting. About 50% negative rate of return by 1924 or something like that, thanks to wartime inflation.rottenborough said:
The Treasury already sells gilts with 50 year maturity I believe, so what's the difference to a "War Bond"?LostPassword said:
You can't unilaterally change the terms of a bond issued without defaulting. That's the point of the bonds issue. So talk about turning them into war bonds is just a distraction from more borrowing.BartholomewRoberts said:
Of course you can treat half our existing debt as war bonds, war bonds are just bonds with an attitude attached to them not a different type of bond.LostPassword said:
I don't think you can just magic half our existing debt into war bonds. But that's by-the-by, because, when challenged on the policy during the debate, Truss defended it by explicitly arguing we could borrow more because our current debt levels were lower than other countries.BartholomewRoberts said:
From what I understand she's suggesting that Covid-related borrowing should be spread over a longer time period, like war bonds.LostPassword said:
I'm surprised that you have Truss as sound on the economy when her policy is to massively expand public borrowing in order to add masses more money to an inflation crisis.BartholomewRoberts said:Agreed with the thread header. Unfortunately Badenoch especially seems to be too interested in the "woke" issues, so I'd have her as my last choice preference.
From what I've seen of the candidates so far, ignoring my betting position (which puts Sunak as #1 preference for entirely book-related reasons) my preference would be:
1. Truss - Seems very sound on the economy etc, also came up with the excellent NI solution
2. Tugendhat - Less dry, but pro more housing which is always a big tick
3. Mordaunt - Neutral, seems to change her positions based on what's popular today, ironically like a continuity Boris
4. Sunak - Too high tax
5. Badenoch - Anti-woke
I appreciate that's probably a pretty unusual preference list.
I can't imagine you regarding the policy as sound if it were suggested by a Labour politician. I can understand that you would be well-disposed towards Truss because of her Brexit policy, but I think you're showing that to distort your judgement.
That's exactly what I suggested at the time of Sunak's stupid NI tax rise.
Day to day spending should not be getting borrowed, but Covid-spending should be
A large sum of the money Sunak's tax rise is going to clear the Covid backlog, despite hundreds of billions of borrowing. What I suggested is that previously was that the Treasury should calculate the cost of clearing the Covid backlog and add that to the Covid borrowing. That borrowing should then be amortised over a timespan rather than just a couple of years as Sunak wanted. We should then return to standard borrowing targets, taking into account the amortisation of Covid borrowing.
That's completely different to Brownian borrowing for day-to-day expenditure.
That is an explicit argument for borrowing to pay for tax cuts, to borrow to cover day-to-day expenditure rather than take the hard choice of taxing or cutting spending. And it's a massive inflationary kick to the economy when inflation is already high.
Borrowing to reverse the tax rise may be a tax cut but limited to Covid borrowing is also absolutely the right thing to do and what should have been done all along.
Reversing the NI hike may be "inflationary" but it is the right thing to do. If non-working people have to face a bit more inflation rather than putting all the burden on working people, then that's not an issue for me.
And on inflation, my pay is up 5%, my Dad's pensions are up by the rate of inflation. It's the working people who are losing out from inflation and will lose out from more inflation.
iirc War Bonds were sold to the general public in UK, not the usual sovereign debt investors (e.g. pension companies, insurance companies, foreign banks etc).
Buying such a bond was patriotic duty I recall.
You couldn't redeem them, either, so they were still knocling around in my family finances into the 1970s at least. The one occasion to redeem was very temporary, at one point when HMG wanted to reduce the interest rate unilaterally, and had to offer redemption as an alternative.
You sure had to be bloody patriotic to buy the things!
https://web.archive.org/web/20170923194237/http://www.dmo.gov.uk/documentview.aspx?docName=/gilts/press/pr031214.pdf0 -
I've tried that. It was like a gloss paint. Horrible stuff.turbotubbs said:
The wife once found some sunscreen that promised not to need reapplication during the day. Found out why during a 10 mile race in the sun - it stopped me from sweating... Very unpleasant experience.DavidL said:
The Royal family is just not that lucky.Farooq said:Thoughts and prayers to the Royal Family tomorrow. If Andrew can't sweat he's surely going to die in this heat.
0 -
Keir I ❤️ Brexit I do Starmer - who has already blown his chance of being PM by now getting ZERO tactical votes from Lib Dems and Greens At the next election. That Keir Starmer?CorrectHorseBattery said:Labour has probably been presented here with its best chance to win an election in about 10 years. A Tory Party with no strategy and no ideas and no sense of where the country is and where it is going.
It really is judgment time for Keir Starmer, if he can emulate Wilson he will win and win big. But otherwise he will lose.0 -
People are assessing Labour's chances at the next election through the perceived centristness of their policy platform and rhetoric, which is why Sunak does best.
I think that's too simplistic. Policies for growth, competence in office, their style, and developing a language and rapport with ordinary voters will be key.5 -
The US is where he will make his hundreds of millions. Raising his profile there for a couple of years could be of interest to him.Icarus said:
Boris needs to earn some hard cash . A cabinet job or Ambassadorship wouldn't be any use.noneoftheabove said:
US Ambassador is the only govt role Boris might be interested in.MoonRabbit said:
The give Boris cabinet job is interesting. If he thought it was his best chance of a comeback, and Truss offered him Foreign Secretary, Boris would take it wouldn’t he? In fact right now it would sort of suit him and the Conservatives?MoonRabbit said:
I have lifted this off of Sky, I was in a service when it was live, but it looks like they had tailored questions.Luckyguy1983 said:
Was the HS2 question not asked for Penny?MoonRabbit said:Quickfire round
Tugendhat faces a round of quickfire questions.
Would you intervene if China invade Taiwan?
I would definitely support our Japanese, Indonesian and Philippine allies.
Would you leave the European Convention on Human Rights?
No.
Will you build the whole of HS2?
Yes.
Are you fully committed by net zero by 2050?
Fully committed. What I need now is the policy and the planning, and nobody has set it up yet.
Would you privatise Channel 4?
No
Would you allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a generational decision - a generation hasn't passed.
Would you work for a prime minster who has broken the law?
Well I haven't worked for this one.
Does the next PM have to come from outside Johnson's cabinet?
We need a clean start.
It's Mordaunt's turn for a round of quickfire questions.
Are there any circumstances under which you would allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a settled question. No.
Are you committed to net zero by 2050?
Yes - but it has to not clobber people and must support levelling up .
Will you privatise Channel 4?
Not a priority for me.
Would you give Boris Johnson a cabinet position?
I don't think he'd be around to serve.
Will you withdraw the UK from the ECHR?
No.
Tom’s answers may have been a tad stronger? But to what extent is this the candidate themself solely to blame, or the team around them can help them prepare better - rational thought through policy and strong forms of words?
Tom is actually saying, no, I won’t help Taiwan?
Foreign Secretary Boris cannot be ruled out imo.0 -
In more Bonkers News (real or imagined) from the Tory war-room Kemi Badenoch has hit out at Ben & Jerry's owner Unilever for focusing on 'social justice at the expense of profits'.MoonRabbit said:
The give Boris cabinet job is interesting. If he thought it was his best chance of a comeback, and Truss offered him Foreign Secretary, Boris would take it wouldn’t he? In fact right now it would sort of suit him and the Conservatives?MoonRabbit said:
I have lifted this off of Sky, I was in a service when it was live, but it looks like they had tailored questions.Luckyguy1983 said:
Was the HS2 question not asked for Penny?MoonRabbit said:Quickfire round
Tugendhat faces a round of quickfire questions.
Would you intervene if China invade Taiwan?
I would definitely support our Japanese, Indonesian and Philippine allies.
Would you leave the European Convention on Human Rights?
No.
Will you build the whole of HS2?
Yes.
Are you fully committed by net zero by 2050?
Fully committed. What I need now is the policy and the planning, and nobody has set it up yet.
Would you privatise Channel 4?
No
Would you allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a generational decision - a generation hasn't passed.
Would you work for a prime minster who has broken the law?
Well I haven't worked for this one.
Does the next PM have to come from outside Johnson's cabinet?
We need a clean start.
It's Mordaunt's turn for a round of quickfire questions.
Are there any circumstances under which you would allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a settled question. No.
Are you committed to net zero by 2050?
Yes - but it has to not clobber people and must support levelling up .
Will you privatise Channel 4?
Not a priority for me.
Would you give Boris Johnson a cabinet position?
I don't think he'd be around to serve.
Will you withdraw the UK from the ECHR?
No.
Tom’s answers may have been a tad stronger? But to what extent is this the candidate themself solely to blame, or the team around them can help them prepare better - rational thought through policy and strong forms of words?
Tom is actually saying, no, I won’t help Taiwan?
Foreign Secretary Boris cannot be ruled out imo.
As Bernard Manning (or similar) once said. 'You Couldn't Make it Up!'
0 -
Let's hope the next debate drills down into it all.LostPassword said:
Sure and Britain already has a relatively large proportion of long-dated bonds. So what is Truss going to change that would enable us to borrow £30+bn more a year without it bankrupting the country?rottenborough said:
The Treasury already sells gilts with 50 year maturity I believe, so what's the difference to a "War Bond"?LostPassword said:
You can't unilaterally change the terms of a bond issued without defaulting. That's the point of the bonds issue. So talk about turning them into war bonds is just a distraction from more borrowing.BartholomewRoberts said:
Of course you can treat half our existing debt as war bonds, war bonds are just bonds with an attitude attached to them not a different type of bond.LostPassword said:
I don't think you can just magic half our existing debt into war bonds. But that's by-the-by, because, when challenged on the policy during the debate, Truss defended it by explicitly arguing we could borrow more because our current debt levels were lower than other countries.BartholomewRoberts said:
From what I understand she's suggesting that Covid-related borrowing should be spread over a longer time period, like war bonds.LostPassword said:
I'm surprised that you have Truss as sound on the economy when her policy is to massively expand public borrowing in order to add masses more money to an inflation crisis.BartholomewRoberts said:Agreed with the thread header. Unfortunately Badenoch especially seems to be too interested in the "woke" issues, so I'd have her as my last choice preference.
From what I've seen of the candidates so far, ignoring my betting position (which puts Sunak as #1 preference for entirely book-related reasons) my preference would be:
1. Truss - Seems very sound on the economy etc, also came up with the excellent NI solution
2. Tugendhat - Less dry, but pro more housing which is always a big tick
3. Mordaunt - Neutral, seems to change her positions based on what's popular today, ironically like a continuity Boris
4. Sunak - Too high tax
5. Badenoch - Anti-woke
I appreciate that's probably a pretty unusual preference list.
I can't imagine you regarding the policy as sound if it were suggested by a Labour politician. I can understand that you would be well-disposed towards Truss because of her Brexit policy, but I think you're showing that to distort your judgement.
That's exactly what I suggested at the time of Sunak's stupid NI tax rise.
Day to day spending should not be getting borrowed, but Covid-spending should be
A large sum of the money Sunak's tax rise is going to clear the Covid backlog, despite hundreds of billions of borrowing. What I suggested is that previously was that the Treasury should calculate the cost of clearing the Covid backlog and add that to the Covid borrowing. That borrowing should then be amortised over a timespan rather than just a couple of years as Sunak wanted. We should then return to standard borrowing targets, taking into account the amortisation of Covid borrowing.
That's completely different to Brownian borrowing for day-to-day expenditure.
That is an explicit argument for borrowing to pay for tax cuts, to borrow to cover day-to-day expenditure rather than take the hard choice of taxing or cutting spending. And it's a massive inflationary kick to the economy when inflation is already high.
Borrowing to reverse the tax rise may be a tax cut but limited to Covid borrowing is also absolutely the right thing to do and what should have been done all along.
Reversing the NI hike may be "inflationary" but it is the right thing to do. If non-working people have to face a bit more inflation rather than putting all the burden on working people, then that's not an issue for me.
And on inflation, my pay is up 5%, my Dad's pensions are up by the rate of inflation. It's the working people who are losing out from inflation and will lose out from more inflation.
iirc War Bonds were sold to the general public in UK, not the usual sovereign debt investors (e.g. pension companies, insurance companies, foreign banks etc).
Buying such a bond was patriotic duty I recall.
Seems to me to just be one of the 'say anything that can get me elected by the membership' policies.0 -
Dashing off a flowery comment piece in half an hour about how good he was and how terrible the new person is, and how he'd have done it better.Icarus said:
Boris needs to earn some hard cash . A cabinet job or Ambassadorship wouldn't be any use.noneoftheabove said:
US Ambassador is the only govt role Boris might be interested in.MoonRabbit said:
The give Boris cabinet job is interesting. If he thought it was his best chance of a comeback, and Truss offered him Foreign Secretary, Boris would take it wouldn’t he? In fact right now it would sort of suit him and the Conservatives?MoonRabbit said:
I have lifted this off of Sky, I was in a service when it was live, but it looks like they had tailored questions.Luckyguy1983 said:
Was the HS2 question not asked for Penny?MoonRabbit said:Quickfire round
Tugendhat faces a round of quickfire questions.
Would you intervene if China invade Taiwan?
I would definitely support our Japanese, Indonesian and Philippine allies.
Would you leave the European Convention on Human Rights?
No.
Will you build the whole of HS2?
Yes.
Are you fully committed by net zero by 2050?
Fully committed. What I need now is the policy and the planning, and nobody has set it up yet.
Would you privatise Channel 4?
No
Would you allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a generational decision - a generation hasn't passed.
Would you work for a prime minster who has broken the law?
Well I haven't worked for this one.
Does the next PM have to come from outside Johnson's cabinet?
We need a clean start.
It's Mordaunt's turn for a round of quickfire questions.
Are there any circumstances under which you would allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a settled question. No.
Are you committed to net zero by 2050?
Yes - but it has to not clobber people and must support levelling up .
Will you privatise Channel 4?
Not a priority for me.
Would you give Boris Johnson a cabinet position?
I don't think he'd be around to serve.
Will you withdraw the UK from the ECHR?
No.
Tom’s answers may have been a tad stronger? But to what extent is this the candidate themself solely to blame, or the team around them can help them prepare better - rational thought through policy and strong forms of words?
Tom is actually saying, no, I won’t help Taiwan?
Foreign Secretary Boris cannot be ruled out imo.
Then back to the shagging.0 -
It only bankrupts the country if the tax return from the spending does not meet the interest bill. There is room for discussions about this but Sunak's point is the one to answer: how do you stop this causing yet more inflation?LostPassword said:
Sure and Britain already has a relatively large proportion of long-dated bonds. So what is Truss going to change that would enable us to borrow £30+bn more a year without it bankrupting the country?rottenborough said:
The Treasury already sells gilts with 50 year maturity I believe, so what's the difference to a "War Bond"?LostPassword said:
You can't unilaterally change the terms of a bond issued without defaulting. That's the point of the bonds issue. So talk about turning them into war bonds is just a distraction from more borrowing.BartholomewRoberts said:
Of course you can treat half our existing debt as war bonds, war bonds are just bonds with an attitude attached to them not a different type of bond.LostPassword said:
I don't think you can just magic half our existing debt into war bonds. But that's by-the-by, because, when challenged on the policy during the debate, Truss defended it by explicitly arguing we could borrow more because our current debt levels were lower than other countries.BartholomewRoberts said:
From what I understand she's suggesting that Covid-related borrowing should be spread over a longer time period, like war bonds.LostPassword said:
I'm surprised that you have Truss as sound on the economy when her policy is to massively expand public borrowing in order to add masses more money to an inflation crisis.BartholomewRoberts said:Agreed with the thread header. Unfortunately Badenoch especially seems to be too interested in the "woke" issues, so I'd have her as my last choice preference.
From what I've seen of the candidates so far, ignoring my betting position (which puts Sunak as #1 preference for entirely book-related reasons) my preference would be:
1. Truss - Seems very sound on the economy etc, also came up with the excellent NI solution
2. Tugendhat - Less dry, but pro more housing which is always a big tick
3. Mordaunt - Neutral, seems to change her positions based on what's popular today, ironically like a continuity Boris
4. Sunak - Too high tax
5. Badenoch - Anti-woke
I appreciate that's probably a pretty unusual preference list.
I can't imagine you regarding the policy as sound if it were suggested by a Labour politician. I can understand that you would be well-disposed towards Truss because of her Brexit policy, but I think you're showing that to distort your judgement.
That's exactly what I suggested at the time of Sunak's stupid NI tax rise.
Day to day spending should not be getting borrowed, but Covid-spending should be
A large sum of the money Sunak's tax rise is going to clear the Covid backlog, despite hundreds of billions of borrowing. What I suggested is that previously was that the Treasury should calculate the cost of clearing the Covid backlog and add that to the Covid borrowing. That borrowing should then be amortised over a timespan rather than just a couple of years as Sunak wanted. We should then return to standard borrowing targets, taking into account the amortisation of Covid borrowing.
That's completely different to Brownian borrowing for day-to-day expenditure.
That is an explicit argument for borrowing to pay for tax cuts, to borrow to cover day-to-day expenditure rather than take the hard choice of taxing or cutting spending. And it's a massive inflationary kick to the economy when inflation is already high.
Borrowing to reverse the tax rise may be a tax cut but limited to Covid borrowing is also absolutely the right thing to do and what should have been done all along.
Reversing the NI hike may be "inflationary" but it is the right thing to do. If non-working people have to face a bit more inflation rather than putting all the burden on working people, then that's not an issue for me.
And on inflation, my pay is up 5%, my Dad's pensions are up by the rate of inflation. It's the working people who are losing out from inflation and will lose out from more inflation.
iirc War Bonds were sold to the general public in UK, not the usual sovereign debt investors (e.g. pension companies, insurance companies, foreign banks etc).
Buying such a bond was patriotic duty I recall.0 -
A terrible tale. When I hear it, it reminds me why I vote Labour, that capitalism is not enough and that socialism would make a big difference. Capitalism is not kind to people who have bad luck.Cookie said:Jesus Christ.
In case anyone was feeling unduly chipper, let me relate a conversation I just had.
Walking down Great Ducie Street, Manchester, I saw an altercation between a gaunt looking fella in a tracksuit and a shabby looking old woman. I caught the eye of the fella, who apologised, and, in step, going in the same direction, explained himself: that was his mum, she was on heroin and couldn't sort himself out, and he was looking like being made homeless because she kept going round to his flat and causing trouble. And he was almost totally blind, as was his sister, having been born to a woman on heroin. And he had almost no teeth, since being hit in the face with a tire iron six months ago. And just one thing after another. Here was a fella who life took one gigantic shit on at the start followed by a succession of smaller but still substantial ones regularly along the way.
I say this not to make any particular point but just to reflect on how unbelievably awful some people have it.
However, I also remember that history shows us that no single political ideology or that government has all the answers. So it's not as simple as voting left and all will be well. We need balance.
So I really hope, somehow miraculously, our overall political culture manages to extract the best of right and left and maybe some new ideas and finds a way to make a better life for people with terrible luck.0 -
No. If he is hungry for political comeback, cabinet is his route next two years.Icarus said:
Boris needs to earn some hard cash . A cabinet job or Ambassadorship wouldn't be any use.noneoftheabove said:
US Ambassador is the only govt role Boris might be interested in.MoonRabbit said:
The give Boris cabinet job is interesting. If he thought it was his best chance of a comeback, and Truss offered him Foreign Secretary, Boris would take it wouldn’t he? In fact right now it would sort of suit him and the Conservatives?MoonRabbit said:
I have lifted this off of Sky, I was in a service when it was live, but it looks like they had tailored questions.Luckyguy1983 said:
Was the HS2 question not asked for Penny?MoonRabbit said:Quickfire round
Tugendhat faces a round of quickfire questions.
Would you intervene if China invade Taiwan?
I would definitely support our Japanese, Indonesian and Philippine allies.
Would you leave the European Convention on Human Rights?
No.
Will you build the whole of HS2?
Yes.
Are you fully committed by net zero by 2050?
Fully committed. What I need now is the policy and the planning, and nobody has set it up yet.
Would you privatise Channel 4?
No
Would you allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a generational decision - a generation hasn't passed.
Would you work for a prime minster who has broken the law?
Well I haven't worked for this one.
Does the next PM have to come from outside Johnson's cabinet?
We need a clean start.
It's Mordaunt's turn for a round of quickfire questions.
Are there any circumstances under which you would allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a settled question. No.
Are you committed to net zero by 2050?
Yes - but it has to not clobber people and must support levelling up .
Will you privatise Channel 4?
Not a priority for me.
Would you give Boris Johnson a cabinet position?
I don't think he'd be around to serve.
Will you withdraw the UK from the ECHR?
No.
Tom’s answers may have been a tad stronger? But to what extent is this the candidate themself solely to blame, or the team around them can help them prepare better - rational thought through policy and strong forms of words?
Tom is actually saying, no, I won’t help Taiwan?
Foreign Secretary Boris cannot be ruled out imo.
Let’s be honest here, amongst all the Boris bashing - if he could go back three years in a time machine he would do it all differently, and be on course now for 2024 election win.
PS it would also solve his homeless problem.0 -
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53741180Roger said:
In more Bonkers News (real or imagined) from the Tory war-room Kemi Badenoch has hit out at Ben & Jerry's owner Unilever for focusing on 'social justice at the expense of profits'.MoonRabbit said:
The give Boris cabinet job is interesting. If he thought it was his best chance of a comeback, and Truss offered him Foreign Secretary, Boris would take it wouldn’t he? In fact right now it would sort of suit him and the Conservatives?MoonRabbit said:
I have lifted this off of Sky, I was in a service when it was live, but it looks like they had tailored questions.Luckyguy1983 said:
Was the HS2 question not asked for Penny?MoonRabbit said:Quickfire round
Tugendhat faces a round of quickfire questions.
Would you intervene if China invade Taiwan?
I would definitely support our Japanese, Indonesian and Philippine allies.
Would you leave the European Convention on Human Rights?
No.
Will you build the whole of HS2?
Yes.
Are you fully committed by net zero by 2050?
Fully committed. What I need now is the policy and the planning, and nobody has set it up yet.
Would you privatise Channel 4?
No
Would you allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a generational decision - a generation hasn't passed.
Would you work for a prime minster who has broken the law?
Well I haven't worked for this one.
Does the next PM have to come from outside Johnson's cabinet?
We need a clean start.
It's Mordaunt's turn for a round of quickfire questions.
Are there any circumstances under which you would allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a settled question. No.
Are you committed to net zero by 2050?
Yes - but it has to not clobber people and must support levelling up .
Will you privatise Channel 4?
Not a priority for me.
Would you give Boris Johnson a cabinet position?
I don't think he'd be around to serve.
Will you withdraw the UK from the ECHR?
No.
Tom’s answers may have been a tad stronger? But to what extent is this the candidate themself solely to blame, or the team around them can help them prepare better - rational thought through policy and strong forms of words?
Tom is actually saying, no, I won’t help Taiwan?
Foreign Secretary Boris cannot be ruled out imo.
As Bernard Manning (or similar) once said. 'You Couldn't Make it Up!'
This is a Priti Patel battle. KB strikes me more and more as a PP mini me. Not in a good way.1 -
Market on when Kemi does cultural Marxism (if she hasn’t already)?williamglenn said:I want to abolish the top down Whitehall inspired Stalinist housing targets - that’s the wrong way to generate economic growth.
The best way to stimulate economic growth is bottom-up with tax incentives for investment and simplified regulations.
https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/15485853974788833280 -
Yep. All is relative. Like for me they all look varying shades of utterly adorable because I'm comparing them to Boris Johnson. That's how bad he was. I do hope we won't forget this. Hope people don't start conjuring up 'redeeming qualities' as the reality of him recedes. Let's keep that collective memory true and sharp and bitter.Farooq said:The Tory leadership race is like a trippy optical illusion. Each time you look long and hard at one of the candidates you think "well obviously they can't win" and the other candidates in the periphery of your vision look perfectly electable.
Only, when you switch your gaze onto them, it's the same thing. The one that looked hopeless suddenly appears much better because NOW you're staring at this other one and oh God no, THIS one is worse.1 -
Badenoch reminds me of Corbyn. She is so utterly convinced of her point of view and worthiness that she has no ability to see how others (some of whom you might need to vote for her one day) might perceive what she says.Roger said:
In more Bonkers News (real or imagined) from the Tory war-room Kemi Badenoch has hit out at Ben & Jerry's owner Unilever for focusing on 'social justice at the expense of profits'.MoonRabbit said:
The give Boris cabinet job is interesting. If he thought it was his best chance of a comeback, and Truss offered him Foreign Secretary, Boris would take it wouldn’t he? In fact right now it would sort of suit him and the Conservatives?MoonRabbit said:
I have lifted this off of Sky, I was in a service when it was live, but it looks like they had tailored questions.Luckyguy1983 said:
Was the HS2 question not asked for Penny?MoonRabbit said:Quickfire round
Tugendhat faces a round of quickfire questions.
Would you intervene if China invade Taiwan?
I would definitely support our Japanese, Indonesian and Philippine allies.
Would you leave the European Convention on Human Rights?
No.
Will you build the whole of HS2?
Yes.
Are you fully committed by net zero by 2050?
Fully committed. What I need now is the policy and the planning, and nobody has set it up yet.
Would you privatise Channel 4?
No
Would you allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a generational decision - a generation hasn't passed.
Would you work for a prime minster who has broken the law?
Well I haven't worked for this one.
Does the next PM have to come from outside Johnson's cabinet?
We need a clean start.
It's Mordaunt's turn for a round of quickfire questions.
Are there any circumstances under which you would allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a settled question. No.
Are you committed to net zero by 2050?
Yes - but it has to not clobber people and must support levelling up .
Will you privatise Channel 4?
Not a priority for me.
Would you give Boris Johnson a cabinet position?
I don't think he'd be around to serve.
Will you withdraw the UK from the ECHR?
No.
Tom’s answers may have been a tad stronger? But to what extent is this the candidate themself solely to blame, or the team around them can help them prepare better - rational thought through policy and strong forms of words?
Tom is actually saying, no, I won’t help Taiwan?
Foreign Secretary Boris cannot be ruled out imo.
As Bernard Manning (or similar) once said. 'You Couldn't Make it Up!'1 -
Sunscreen is for wimps.turbotubbs said:
The wife once found some sunscreen that promised not to need reapplication during the day. Found out why during a 10 mile race in the sun - it stopped me from sweating... Very unpleasant experience.DavidL said:
The Royal family is just not that lucky.Farooq said:Thoughts and prayers to the Royal Family tomorrow. If Andrew can't sweat he's surely going to die in this heat.
To be serious, the main difference I remember between 1976 and now is that sunburn has almost completely disappeared whereas then human lobsters were ubiquitous, and some even welcomed it as a prelude to tanning.0 -
The right wing could explore this further. Government ministers could start to organise how companies are run, perhaps develop 5 year plans to help guide them. They could ensure that only those loyal to the Tory party are considered for the top jobs, and maybe move any dissident workers to the bleakest parts of the country.Roger said:
In more Bonkers News (real or imagined) from the Tory war-room Kemi Badenoch has hit out at Ben & Jerry's owner Unilever for focusing on 'social justice at the expense of profits'.MoonRabbit said:
The give Boris cabinet job is interesting. If he thought it was his best chance of a comeback, and Truss offered him Foreign Secretary, Boris would take it wouldn’t he? In fact right now it would sort of suit him and the Conservatives?MoonRabbit said:
I have lifted this off of Sky, I was in a service when it was live, but it looks like they had tailored questions.Luckyguy1983 said:
Was the HS2 question not asked for Penny?MoonRabbit said:Quickfire round
Tugendhat faces a round of quickfire questions.
Would you intervene if China invade Taiwan?
I would definitely support our Japanese, Indonesian and Philippine allies.
Would you leave the European Convention on Human Rights?
No.
Will you build the whole of HS2?
Yes.
Are you fully committed by net zero by 2050?
Fully committed. What I need now is the policy and the planning, and nobody has set it up yet.
Would you privatise Channel 4?
No
Would you allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a generational decision - a generation hasn't passed.
Would you work for a prime minster who has broken the law?
Well I haven't worked for this one.
Does the next PM have to come from outside Johnson's cabinet?
We need a clean start.
It's Mordaunt's turn for a round of quickfire questions.
Are there any circumstances under which you would allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a settled question. No.
Are you committed to net zero by 2050?
Yes - but it has to not clobber people and must support levelling up .
Will you privatise Channel 4?
Not a priority for me.
Would you give Boris Johnson a cabinet position?
I don't think he'd be around to serve.
Will you withdraw the UK from the ECHR?
No.
Tom’s answers may have been a tad stronger? But to what extent is this the candidate themself solely to blame, or the team around them can help them prepare better - rational thought through policy and strong forms of words?
Tom is actually saying, no, I won’t help Taiwan?
Foreign Secretary Boris cannot be ruled out imo.
As Bernard Manning (or similar) once said. 'You Couldn't Make it Up!'
I wonder what could we call this new right wing, free market party?1 -
You seriously think people like that matter to Labour? As far as the modern Labour party are concerned, they are at the bottom of the pile - white (I'm guessing) very low economic status who probably hold some very 'outdated' views when it comes to race, gay rights and trans issues.
I agree modern capitalism has been awful at this (and I blame a lot of it on economics dressing itself up as an empirical science and pushing theories that don't work in practice) but the idea Labour cares about these people is laughable.Jonathan said:
A terrible tale. When I hear it, it reminds me why I vote Labour, that capitalism is not enough and that socialism would make a big difference. Capitalism is not kind to people who have bad luck.Cookie said:Jesus Christ.
In case anyone was feeling unduly chipper, let me relate a conversation I just had.
Walking down Great Ducie Street, Manchester, I saw an altercation between a gaunt looking fella in a tracksuit and a shabby looking old woman. I caught the eye of the fella, who apologised, and, in step, going in the same direction, explained himself: that was his mum, she was on heroin and couldn't sort himself out, and he was looking like being made homeless because she kept going round to his flat and causing trouble. And he was almost totally blind, as was his sister, having been born to a woman on heroin. And he had almost no teeth, since being hit in the face with a tire iron six months ago. And just one thing after another. Here was a fella who life took one gigantic shit on at the start followed by a succession of smaller but still substantial ones regularly along the way.
I say this not to make any particular point but just to reflect on how unbelievably awful some people have it.
However, I also remember that history shows us that no single political ideology or that government has all the answers. So it's not as simple as voting left and all will be well. We need balance.
So I really hope, somehow miraculously, our overall political culture manages to extract the best of right and left and maybe some new ideas and finds a way to make a better life for people with terrible luck.0 -
I'd have stopped all those boats if it wasn't for that meddling woke ice cream.IshmaelZ said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53741180Roger said:
In more Bonkers News (real or imagined) from the Tory war-room Kemi Badenoch has hit out at Ben & Jerry's owner Unilever for focusing on 'social justice at the expense of profits'.MoonRabbit said:
The give Boris cabinet job is interesting. If he thought it was his best chance of a comeback, and Truss offered him Foreign Secretary, Boris would take it wouldn’t he? In fact right now it would sort of suit him and the Conservatives?MoonRabbit said:
I have lifted this off of Sky, I was in a service when it was live, but it looks like they had tailored questions.Luckyguy1983 said:
Was the HS2 question not asked for Penny?MoonRabbit said:Quickfire round
Tugendhat faces a round of quickfire questions.
Would you intervene if China invade Taiwan?
I would definitely support our Japanese, Indonesian and Philippine allies.
Would you leave the European Convention on Human Rights?
No.
Will you build the whole of HS2?
Yes.
Are you fully committed by net zero by 2050?
Fully committed. What I need now is the policy and the planning, and nobody has set it up yet.
Would you privatise Channel 4?
No
Would you allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a generational decision - a generation hasn't passed.
Would you work for a prime minster who has broken the law?
Well I haven't worked for this one.
Does the next PM have to come from outside Johnson's cabinet?
We need a clean start.
It's Mordaunt's turn for a round of quickfire questions.
Are there any circumstances under which you would allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a settled question. No.
Are you committed to net zero by 2050?
Yes - but it has to not clobber people and must support levelling up .
Will you privatise Channel 4?
Not a priority for me.
Would you give Boris Johnson a cabinet position?
I don't think he'd be around to serve.
Will you withdraw the UK from the ECHR?
No.
Tom’s answers may have been a tad stronger? But to what extent is this the candidate themself solely to blame, or the team around them can help them prepare better - rational thought through policy and strong forms of words?
Tom is actually saying, no, I won’t help Taiwan?
Foreign Secretary Boris cannot be ruled out imo.
As Bernard Manning (or similar) once said. 'You Couldn't Make it Up!'
This is a Priti Patel battle. KB strikes me more and more as a PP mini me. Not in a good way.5 -
Do we really believe B&J are focussing on social justice at expense of profits, or it’s a glib marketing campaign.IshmaelZ said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53741180Roger said:
In more Bonkers News (real or imagined) from the Tory war-room Kemi Badenoch has hit out at Ben & Jerry's owner Unilever for focusing on 'social justice at the expense of profits'.MoonRabbit said:
The give Boris cabinet job is interesting. If he thought it was his best chance of a comeback, and Truss offered him Foreign Secretary, Boris would take it wouldn’t he? In fact right now it would sort of suit him and the Conservatives?MoonRabbit said:
I have lifted this off of Sky, I was in a service when it was live, but it looks like they had tailored questions.Luckyguy1983 said:
Was the HS2 question not asked for Penny?MoonRabbit said:Quickfire round
Tugendhat faces a round of quickfire questions.
Would you intervene if China invade Taiwan?
I would definitely support our Japanese, Indonesian and Philippine allies.
Would you leave the European Convention on Human Rights?
No.
Will you build the whole of HS2?
Yes.
Are you fully committed by net zero by 2050?
Fully committed. What I need now is the policy and the planning, and nobody has set it up yet.
Would you privatise Channel 4?
No
Would you allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a generational decision - a generation hasn't passed.
Would you work for a prime minster who has broken the law?
Well I haven't worked for this one.
Does the next PM have to come from outside Johnson's cabinet?
We need a clean start.
It's Mordaunt's turn for a round of quickfire questions.
Are there any circumstances under which you would allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a settled question. No.
Are you committed to net zero by 2050?
Yes - but it has to not clobber people and must support levelling up .
Will you privatise Channel 4?
Not a priority for me.
Would you give Boris Johnson a cabinet position?
I don't think he'd be around to serve.
Will you withdraw the UK from the ECHR?
No.
Tom’s answers may have been a tad stronger? But to what extent is this the candidate themself solely to blame, or the team around them can help them prepare better - rational thought through policy and strong forms of words?
Tom is actually saying, no, I won’t help Taiwan?
Foreign Secretary Boris cannot be ruled out imo.
As Bernard Manning (or similar) once said. 'You Couldn't Make it Up!'
This is a Priti Patel battle. KB strikes me more and more as a PP mini me. Not in a good way.
Cummings will be revealed as the Brains behind Badenoch success. As Boris exits number 10, Gove and Cummings will be entering it. Dom will probably carry the same box through the front door much like Hitler used the same rail carriage for French surrender.1 -
He should get a job working for Ukraine. Some rich person can spare a million or so to keep him in the style in which he's accustomed while travelling around the world coordinating arms deals and making sure people don't forget about them. It makes him less unpopular in Britain whatever happens, and if Ukraine win the war he can return to British politics if that's what he wants to do.noneoftheabove said:
The US is where he will make his hundreds of millions. Raising his profile there for a couple of years could be of interest to him.Icarus said:
Boris needs to earn some hard cash . A cabinet job or Ambassadorship wouldn't be any use.noneoftheabove said:
US Ambassador is the only govt role Boris might be interested in.MoonRabbit said:
The give Boris cabinet job is interesting. If he thought it was his best chance of a comeback, and Truss offered him Foreign Secretary, Boris would take it wouldn’t he? In fact right now it would sort of suit him and the Conservatives?MoonRabbit said:
I have lifted this off of Sky, I was in a service when it was live, but it looks like they had tailored questions.Luckyguy1983 said:
Was the HS2 question not asked for Penny?MoonRabbit said:Quickfire round
Tugendhat faces a round of quickfire questions.
Would you intervene if China invade Taiwan?
I would definitely support our Japanese, Indonesian and Philippine allies.
Would you leave the European Convention on Human Rights?
No.
Will you build the whole of HS2?
Yes.
Are you fully committed by net zero by 2050?
Fully committed. What I need now is the policy and the planning, and nobody has set it up yet.
Would you privatise Channel 4?
No
Would you allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a generational decision - a generation hasn't passed.
Would you work for a prime minster who has broken the law?
Well I haven't worked for this one.
Does the next PM have to come from outside Johnson's cabinet?
We need a clean start.
It's Mordaunt's turn for a round of quickfire questions.
Are there any circumstances under which you would allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a settled question. No.
Are you committed to net zero by 2050?
Yes - but it has to not clobber people and must support levelling up .
Will you privatise Channel 4?
Not a priority for me.
Would you give Boris Johnson a cabinet position?
I don't think he'd be around to serve.
Will you withdraw the UK from the ECHR?
No.
Tom’s answers may have been a tad stronger? But to what extent is this the candidate themself solely to blame, or the team around them can help them prepare better - rational thought through policy and strong forms of words?
Tom is actually saying, no, I won’t help Taiwan?
Foreign Secretary Boris cannot be ruled out imo.3 -
Voters love that sort of thing.Jonathan said:
Badenoch reminds me of Corbyn. She is so utterly convinced of her point of view and worthiness that she has no ability to see how others (some of whom you might need to vote for her one day) might perceive what she says.Roger said:
In more Bonkers News (real or imagined) from the Tory war-room Kemi Badenoch has hit out at Ben & Jerry's owner Unilever for focusing on 'social justice at the expense of profits'.MoonRabbit said:
The give Boris cabinet job is interesting. If he thought it was his best chance of a comeback, and Truss offered him Foreign Secretary, Boris would take it wouldn’t he? In fact right now it would sort of suit him and the Conservatives?MoonRabbit said:
I have lifted this off of Sky, I was in a service when it was live, but it looks like they had tailored questions.Luckyguy1983 said:
Was the HS2 question not asked for Penny?MoonRabbit said:Quickfire round
Tugendhat faces a round of quickfire questions.
Would you intervene if China invade Taiwan?
I would definitely support our Japanese, Indonesian and Philippine allies.
Would you leave the European Convention on Human Rights?
No.
Will you build the whole of HS2?
Yes.
Are you fully committed by net zero by 2050?
Fully committed. What I need now is the policy and the planning, and nobody has set it up yet.
Would you privatise Channel 4?
No
Would you allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a generational decision - a generation hasn't passed.
Would you work for a prime minster who has broken the law?
Well I haven't worked for this one.
Does the next PM have to come from outside Johnson's cabinet?
We need a clean start.
It's Mordaunt's turn for a round of quickfire questions.
Are there any circumstances under which you would allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a settled question. No.
Are you committed to net zero by 2050?
Yes - but it has to not clobber people and must support levelling up .
Will you privatise Channel 4?
Not a priority for me.
Would you give Boris Johnson a cabinet position?
I don't think he'd be around to serve.
Will you withdraw the UK from the ECHR?
No.
Tom’s answers may have been a tad stronger? But to what extent is this the candidate themself solely to blame, or the team around them can help them prepare better - rational thought through policy and strong forms of words?
Tom is actually saying, no, I won’t help Taiwan?
Foreign Secretary Boris cannot be ruled out imo.
As Bernard Manning (or similar) once said. 'You Couldn't Make it Up!'0 -
Agree, which is why I think Sunak would actually lead the Conservatives to a pretty poor defeat, although he might save some Home Counties Blue Wall seats.Casino_Royale said:People are assessing Labour's chances at the next election through the perceived centristness of their policy platform and rhetoric, which is why Sunak does best.
I think that's too simplistic. Policies for growth, competence in office, their style, and developing a language and rapport with ordinary voters will be key.
0 -
Anyway it's good to see no obvious traction for the Make PB Great Again (by expelling the foreign posters) campaign. I was a bit worried about that when I popped in last night. These things can take over whole countries so niche internet forums are particularly vulnerable.2
-
Only certain if the boundary changes go through and even then Kensington voters will not want to cancel ballet as it becomes the latest Woke targetCorrectHorseBattery said:Kensington is going Red whatever happens, it went Red under Corbyn in 2017 it will go red again under Starmer. I don't think HYUFD has a clue about the makeup of this seat.
0 -
It is why I am a one nation Conservative. We must use and benefit from the efficiencies of the market but we must also be a compassionate society that helps those that need it. And boy, does that man need it.Jonathan said:
A terrible tale. When I hear it, it reminds me why I vote Labour, that capitalism is not enough and that socialism would make a big difference. Capitalism is not kind to people who have bad luck.Cookie said:Jesus Christ.
In case anyone was feeling unduly chipper, let me relate a conversation I just had.
Walking down Great Ducie Street, Manchester, I saw an altercation between a gaunt looking fella in a tracksuit and a shabby looking old woman. I caught the eye of the fella, who apologised, and, in step, going in the same direction, explained himself: that was his mum, she was on heroin and couldn't sort himself out, and he was looking like being made homeless because she kept going round to his flat and causing trouble. And he was almost totally blind, as was his sister, having been born to a woman on heroin. And he had almost no teeth, since being hit in the face with a tire iron six months ago. And just one thing after another. Here was a fella who life took one gigantic shit on at the start followed by a succession of smaller but still substantial ones regularly along the way.
I say this not to make any particular point but just to reflect on how unbelievably awful some people have it.
However, I also remember that history shows us that no single political ideology or that government has all the answers. So it's not as simple as voting left and all will be well. We need balance.
So I really hope, somehow miraculously, our overall political culture manages to extract the best of right and left and maybe some new ideas and finds a way to make a better life for people with terrible luck.1 -
Thanks. I was trying to reflect on the politics of it, and what I would loosely term as 'my side' of politics doesn't have much of an answer to this situation. We can discourage it from arising by criminalising drugs and disincentivising the likes of his mother from having children, but that's never going to be wholly successful and isn't much consolation for the likes of this fella. But I don't think the left have a solution for this either apart from providing more resources for looking after the discarded pieces.Jonathan said:
A terrible tale. When I hear it, it reminds me why I vote Labour, that capitalism is not enough and that socialism would make a big difference. Capitalism is not kind to people who have bad luck.Cookie said:Jesus Christ.
In case anyone was feeling unduly chipper, let me relate a conversation I just had.
Walking down Great Ducie Street, Manchester, I saw an altercation between a gaunt looking fella in a tracksuit and a shabby looking old woman. I caught the eye of the fella, who apologised, and, in step, going in the same direction, explained himself: that was his mum, she was on heroin and couldn't sort himself out, and he was looking like being made homeless because she kept going round to his flat and causing trouble. And he was almost totally blind, as was his sister, having been born to a woman on heroin. And he had almost no teeth, since being hit in the face with a tire iron six months ago. And just one thing after another. Here was a fella who life took one gigantic shit on at the start followed by a succession of smaller but still substantial ones regularly along the way.
I say this not to make any particular point but just to reflect on how unbelievably awful some people have it.
However, I also remember that history shows us that no single political ideology or that government has all the answers. So it's not as simple as voting left and all will be well. We need balance.
So I really hope, somehow miraculously, our overall political culture manages to extract the best of right and left and maybe some new ideas and finds a way to make a better life for people with terrible luck.
Ultimately, politics mainly deals with the middle 96% and cases like this are perhaps more properly the domain of charity. (In Mamchester, we have a number of organisations dealing with matters of the bottom 2%, one of which is Big Change Manchester, which I think does a good job - I'm sure other cities have their equivalents. )
One cheerier note, I have just bought a birthday card for my Dad from WHSmith. It featured a Matt cartoon. The assistant behind the counter was an antithesis of daily Telegraph reader - young, male, vaguely gothic, sparkly nail varnish - but enthusiastically announced that that was his favourite range and he absolutloves those cartoons.
So perhaps the UK does still have something to hold us together: Matt cartoons.2 -
I assure you that a great many people within Labour, at all levels in the party care deeply about people at the bottom of society. There are a large number of throughly decent people doing what they can both personally and in groups.MrEd said:You seriously think people like that matter to Labour? As far as the modern Labour party are concerned, they are at the bottom of the pile - white (I'm guessing) very low economic status who probably hold some very 'outdated' views when it comes to race, gay rights and trans issues.
I agree modern capitalism has been awful at this (and I blame a lot of it on economics dressing itself up as an empirical science and pushing theories that don't work in practice) but the idea Labour cares about these people is laughable.Jonathan said:
A terrible tale. When I hear it, it reminds me why I vote Labour, that capitalism is not enough and that socialism would make a big difference. Capitalism is not kind to people who have bad luck.Cookie said:Jesus Christ.
In case anyone was feeling unduly chipper, let me relate a conversation I just had.
Walking down Great Ducie Street, Manchester, I saw an altercation between a gaunt looking fella in a tracksuit and a shabby looking old woman. I caught the eye of the fella, who apologised, and, in step, going in the same direction, explained himself: that was his mum, she was on heroin and couldn't sort himself out, and he was looking like being made homeless because she kept going round to his flat and causing trouble. And he was almost totally blind, as was his sister, having been born to a woman on heroin. And he had almost no teeth, since being hit in the face with a tire iron six months ago. And just one thing after another. Here was a fella who life took one gigantic shit on at the start followed by a succession of smaller but still substantial ones regularly along the way.
I say this not to make any particular point but just to reflect on how unbelievably awful some people have it.
However, I also remember that history shows us that no single political ideology or that government has all the answers. So it's not as simple as voting left and all will be well. We need balance.
So I really hope, somehow miraculously, our overall political culture manages to extract the best of right and left and maybe some new ideas and finds a way to make a better life for people with terrible luck.
The fairer question is whether Labour yet has been able to built that genuine care into practical action and a policy platform that is both electable and connected into the needs of other groups that also need help.3 -
If Starmer cannot win back Leave voters in the redwall for Labour he won't win no matter how many tactical votes he getsMoonRabbit said:
Keir I ❤️ Brexit I do Starmer - who has already blown his chance of being PM by now getting ZERO tactical votes from Lib Dems and Greens At the next election. That Keir Starmer?CorrectHorseBattery said:Labour has probably been presented here with its best chance to win an election in about 10 years. A Tory Party with no strategy and no ideas and no sense of where the country is and where it is going.
It really is judgment time for Keir Starmer, if he can emulate Wilson he will win and win big. But otherwise he will lose.0 -
I would imagine 80%+ of the population cares about them regardless of political affiliation. And I very much doubt any party has really good solutions, especially in the short term, that could work like a magic wand.MrEd said:You seriously think people like that matter to Labour? As far as the modern Labour party are concerned, they are at the bottom of the pile - white (I'm guessing) very low economic status who probably hold some very 'outdated' views when it comes to race, gay rights and trans issues.
I agree modern capitalism has been awful at this (and I blame a lot of it on economics dressing itself up as an empirical science and pushing theories that don't work in practice) but the idea Labour cares about these people is laughable.Jonathan said:
A terrible tale. When I hear it, it reminds me why I vote Labour, that capitalism is not enough and that socialism would make a big difference. Capitalism is not kind to people who have bad luck.Cookie said:Jesus Christ.
In case anyone was feeling unduly chipper, let me relate a conversation I just had.
Walking down Great Ducie Street, Manchester, I saw an altercation between a gaunt looking fella in a tracksuit and a shabby looking old woman. I caught the eye of the fella, who apologised, and, in step, going in the same direction, explained himself: that was his mum, she was on heroin and couldn't sort himself out, and he was looking like being made homeless because she kept going round to his flat and causing trouble. And he was almost totally blind, as was his sister, having been born to a woman on heroin. And he had almost no teeth, since being hit in the face with a tire iron six months ago. And just one thing after another. Here was a fella who life took one gigantic shit on at the start followed by a succession of smaller but still substantial ones regularly along the way.
I say this not to make any particular point but just to reflect on how unbelievably awful some people have it.
However, I also remember that history shows us that no single political ideology or that government has all the answers. So it's not as simple as voting left and all will be well. We need balance.
So I really hope, somehow miraculously, our overall political culture manages to extract the best of right and left and maybe some new ideas and finds a way to make a better life for people with terrible luck.1 -
Absolutely superb over by Hardick. Felt a bit sorry for Roy there.1
-
I find the idea that someone northern and poor is automatically a knee-jerk bigot doesn't fit with my experience in the slightest.MrEd said:You seriously think people like that matter to Labour? As far as the modern Labour party are concerned, they are at the bottom of the pile - white (I'm guessing) very low economic status who probably hold some very 'outdated' views when it comes to race, gay rights and trans issues.
I agree modern capitalism has been awful at this (and I blame a lot of it on economics dressing itself up as an empirical science and pushing theories that don't work in practice) but the idea Labour cares about these people is laughable.Jonathan said:
A terrible tale. When I hear it, it reminds me why I vote Labour, that capitalism is not enough and that socialism would make a big difference. Capitalism is not kind to people who have bad luck.Cookie said:Jesus Christ.
In case anyone was feeling unduly chipper, let me relate a conversation I just had.
Walking down Great Ducie Street, Manchester, I saw an altercation between a gaunt looking fella in a tracksuit and a shabby looking old woman. I caught the eye of the fella, who apologised, and, in step, going in the same direction, explained himself: that was his mum, she was on heroin and couldn't sort himself out, and he was looking like being made homeless because she kept going round to his flat and causing trouble. And he was almost totally blind, as was his sister, having been born to a woman on heroin. And he had almost no teeth, since being hit in the face with a tire iron six months ago. And just one thing after another. Here was a fella who life took one gigantic shit on at the start followed by a succession of smaller but still substantial ones regularly along the way.
I say this not to make any particular point but just to reflect on how unbelievably awful some people have it.
However, I also remember that history shows us that no single political ideology or that government has all the answers. So it's not as simple as voting left and all will be well. We need balance.
So I really hope, somehow miraculously, our overall political culture manages to extract the best of right and left and maybe some new ideas and finds a way to make a better life for people with terrible luck.4 -
So the FO won’t allow us to help Taiwan? And not one of these candidates interested in changing this position?dixiedean said:
No.MoonRabbit said:
I have lifted this off of Sky, I was in a service when it was live, but it looks like they had tailored questions.Luckyguy1983 said:
Was the HS2 question not asked for Penny?MoonRabbit said:Quickfire round
Tugendhat faces a round of quickfire questions.
Would you intervene if China invade Taiwan?
I would definitely support our Japanese, Indonesian and Philippine allies.
Would you leave the European Convention on Human Rights?
No.
Will you build the whole of HS2?
Yes.
Are you fully committed by net zero by 2050?
Fully committed. What I need now is the policy and the planning, and nobody has set it up yet.
Would you privatise Channel 4?
No
Would you allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a generational decision - a generation hasn't passed.
Would you work for a prime minster who has broken the law?
Well I haven't worked for this one.
Does the next PM have to come from outside Johnson's cabinet?
We need a clean start.
It's Mordaunt's turn for a round of quickfire questions.
Are there any circumstances under which you would allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a settled question. No.
Are you committed to net zero by 2050?
Yes - but it has to not clobber people and must support levelling up .
Will you privatise Channel 4?
Not a priority for me.
Would you give Boris Johnson a cabinet position?
I don't think he'd be around to serve.
Will you withdraw the UK from the ECHR?
No.
Tom’s answers may have been a tad stronger? But to what extent is this the candidate themself solely to blame, or the team around them can help them prepare better - rational thought through policy and strong forms of words?
Tom is actually saying, no, I won’t help Taiwan?
He's repeating long-standing FO Policy.
Even Bomber Blair gets this one, and the Tory’s don’t?0 -
It doesn't in mine either, especially as I come from that background.
I was stating what many on the left - including some posters on here - seem to think about these people.dixiedean said:
I find the idea that someone northern and poor is automatically a knee-jerk bigot doesn't fit with my experience in the slightest.MrEd said:You seriously think people like that matter to Labour? As far as the modern Labour party are concerned, they are at the bottom of the pile - white (I'm guessing) very low economic status who probably hold some very 'outdated' views when it comes to race, gay rights and trans issues.
I agree modern capitalism has been awful at this (and I blame a lot of it on economics dressing itself up as an empirical science and pushing theories that don't work in practice) but the idea Labour cares about these people is laughable.Jonathan said:
A terrible tale. When I hear it, it reminds me why I vote Labour, that capitalism is not enough and that socialism would make a big difference. Capitalism is not kind to people who have bad luck.Cookie said:Jesus Christ.
In case anyone was feeling unduly chipper, let me relate a conversation I just had.
Walking down Great Ducie Street, Manchester, I saw an altercation between a gaunt looking fella in a tracksuit and a shabby looking old woman. I caught the eye of the fella, who apologised, and, in step, going in the same direction, explained himself: that was his mum, she was on heroin and couldn't sort himself out, and he was looking like being made homeless because she kept going round to his flat and causing trouble. And he was almost totally blind, as was his sister, having been born to a woman on heroin. And he had almost no teeth, since being hit in the face with a tire iron six months ago. And just one thing after another. Here was a fella who life took one gigantic shit on at the start followed by a succession of smaller but still substantial ones regularly along the way.
I say this not to make any particular point but just to reflect on how unbelievably awful some people have it.
However, I also remember that history shows us that no single political ideology or that government has all the answers. So it's not as simple as voting left and all will be well. We need balance.
So I really hope, somehow miraculously, our overall political culture manages to extract the best of right and left and maybe some new ideas and finds a way to make a better life for people with terrible luck.0 -
Whatever happened to Ambre Solaire which was applied in order to increase tanning.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Sunscreen is for wimps.turbotubbs said:
The wife once found some sunscreen that promised not to need reapplication during the day. Found out why during a 10 mile race in the sun - it stopped me from sweating... Very unpleasant experience.DavidL said:
The Royal family is just not that lucky.Farooq said:Thoughts and prayers to the Royal Family tomorrow. If Andrew can't sweat he's surely going to die in this heat.
To be serious, the main difference I remember between 1976 and now is that sunburn has almost completely disappeared whereas then human lobsters were ubiquitous, and some even welcomed it as a prelude to tanning.1 -
I would say that the first step is to avoid any politics that uses the poor as a scapegoat or dehumanises them. The poor are not scroungers or lazy. They are us. We are not where they are because of the roll of the dice.Cookie said:
Thanks. I was trying to reflect on the politics of it, and what I would loosely term as 'my side' of politics doesn't have much of an answer to this situation. We can discourage it from arising by criminalising drugs and disincentivising the likes of his mother from having children, but that's never going to be wholly successful and isn't much consolation for the likes of this fella. But I don't think the left have a solution for this either apart from providing more resources for looking after the discarded pieces.Jonathan said:
A terrible tale. When I hear it, it reminds me why I vote Labour, that capitalism is not enough and that socialism would make a big difference. Capitalism is not kind to people who have bad luck.Cookie said:Jesus Christ.
In case anyone was feeling unduly chipper, let me relate a conversation I just had.
Walking down Great Ducie Street, Manchester, I saw an altercation between a gaunt looking fella in a tracksuit and a shabby looking old woman. I caught the eye of the fella, who apologised, and, in step, going in the same direction, explained himself: that was his mum, she was on heroin and couldn't sort himself out, and he was looking like being made homeless because she kept going round to his flat and causing trouble. And he was almost totally blind, as was his sister, having been born to a woman on heroin. And he had almost no teeth, since being hit in the face with a tire iron six months ago. And just one thing after another. Here was a fella who life took one gigantic shit on at the start followed by a succession of smaller but still substantial ones regularly along the way.
I say this not to make any particular point but just to reflect on how unbelievably awful some people have it.
However, I also remember that history shows us that no single political ideology or that government has all the answers. So it's not as simple as voting left and all will be well. We need balance.
So I really hope, somehow miraculously, our overall political culture manages to extract the best of right and left and maybe some new ideas and finds a way to make a better life for people with terrible luck.
Ultimately, politics mainly deals with the middle 96% and cases like this are perhaps more properly the domain of charity. (In Mamchester, we have a number of organisations dealing with matters of the bottom 2%, one of which is Big Change Manchester, which I think does a good job - I'm sure other cities have their equivalents. )
One cheerier note, I have just bought a birthday card for my Dad from WHSmith. It featured a Matt cartoon. The assistant behind the counter was an antithesis of daily Telegraph reader - young, male, vaguely gothic, sparkly nail varnish - but enthusiastically announced that that was his favourite range and he absolutloves those cartoons.
So perhaps the UK does still have something to hold us together: Matt cartoons.
Once you establish that, you can move forward.2 -
I'm doing it as per your para 2. Competence, style, comms, rapport, popular touch. I score Sunak best and Truss worst on that basis.Casino_Royale said:People are assessing Labour's chances at the next election through the perceived centristness of their policy platform and rhetoric, which is why Sunak does best.
I think that's too simplistic. Policies for growth, competence in office, their style, and developing a language and rapport with ordinary voters will be key.0 -
Surely just looking at the huge fall in the number of homeless people under Blair, and the rise in the years since, tells you that modern Labour did care about people who were struggling at the edges of society.MrEd said:You seriously think people like that matter to Labour? As far as the modern Labour party are concerned, they are at the bottom of the pile - white (I'm guessing) very low economic status who probably hold some very 'outdated' views when it comes to race, gay rights and trans issues.
I agree modern capitalism has been awful at this (and I blame a lot of it on economics dressing itself up as an empirical science and pushing theories that don't work in practice) but the idea Labour cares about these people is laughable.Jonathan said:
A terrible tale. When I hear it, it reminds me why I vote Labour, that capitalism is not enough and that socialism would make a big difference. Capitalism is not kind to people who have bad luck.Cookie said:Jesus Christ.
In case anyone was feeling unduly chipper, let me relate a conversation I just had.
Walking down Great Ducie Street, Manchester, I saw an altercation between a gaunt looking fella in a tracksuit and a shabby looking old woman. I caught the eye of the fella, who apologised, and, in step, going in the same direction, explained himself: that was his mum, she was on heroin and couldn't sort himself out, and he was looking like being made homeless because she kept going round to his flat and causing trouble. And he was almost totally blind, as was his sister, having been born to a woman on heroin. And he had almost no teeth, since being hit in the face with a tire iron six months ago. And just one thing after another. Here was a fella who life took one gigantic shit on at the start followed by a succession of smaller but still substantial ones regularly along the way.
I say this not to make any particular point but just to reflect on how unbelievably awful some people have it.
However, I also remember that history shows us that no single political ideology or that government has all the answers. So it's not as simple as voting left and all will be well. We need balance.
So I really hope, somehow miraculously, our overall political culture manages to extract the best of right and left and maybe some new ideas and finds a way to make a better life for people with terrible luck.9 -
Many on the left live round here.MrEd said:
It doesn't in mine either, especially as I come from that background.
I was stating what many on the left - including some posters on here - seem to think about these people.dixiedean said:
I find the idea that someone northern and poor is automatically a knee-jerk bigot doesn't fit with my experience in the slightest.MrEd said:You seriously think people like that matter to Labour? As far as the modern Labour party are concerned, they are at the bottom of the pile - white (I'm guessing) very low economic status who probably hold some very 'outdated' views when it comes to race, gay rights and trans issues.
I agree modern capitalism has been awful at this (and I blame a lot of it on economics dressing itself up as an empirical science and pushing theories that don't work in practice) but the idea Labour cares about these people is laughable.Jonathan said:
A terrible tale. When I hear it, it reminds me why I vote Labour, that capitalism is not enough and that socialism would make a big difference. Capitalism is not kind to people who have bad luck.Cookie said:Jesus Christ.
In case anyone was feeling unduly chipper, let me relate a conversation I just had.
Walking down Great Ducie Street, Manchester, I saw an altercation between a gaunt looking fella in a tracksuit and a shabby looking old woman. I caught the eye of the fella, who apologised, and, in step, going in the same direction, explained himself: that was his mum, she was on heroin and couldn't sort himself out, and he was looking like being made homeless because she kept going round to his flat and causing trouble. And he was almost totally blind, as was his sister, having been born to a woman on heroin. And he had almost no teeth, since being hit in the face with a tire iron six months ago. And just one thing after another. Here was a fella who life took one gigantic shit on at the start followed by a succession of smaller but still substantial ones regularly along the way.
I say this not to make any particular point but just to reflect on how unbelievably awful some people have it.
However, I also remember that history shows us that no single political ideology or that government has all the answers. So it's not as simple as voting left and all will be well. We need balance.
So I really hope, somehow miraculously, our overall political culture manages to extract the best of right and left and maybe some new ideas and finds a way to make a better life for people with terrible luck.0 -
Next PMDecrepiterJohnL said:
Betfair next prime minister:-DecrepiterJohnL said:Betfair next prime minister
2.62 Rishi Sunak 38%
2.7 Penny Mordaunt 37%
6.4 Liz Truss 16%
10.5 Kemi Badenoch 10%
95 Tom Tugendhat
110 Dominic Raab
To make the final two
1.08 Rishi Sunak 93%
1.55 Penny Mordaunt 65%
3.2 Liz Truss 31%
7.2 Kemi Badenoch 14%
100 Tom Tugendhat
2.62 Rishi Sunak 38%
2.72 Penny Mordaunt 37%
6.6 Liz Truss 15%
10 Kemi Badenoch 10%
90 Tom Tugendhat
130 Dominic Raab
To make the final two
1.07 Rishi Sunak 93%
1.55 Penny Mordaunt 65%
3.35 Liz Truss 30%
5.7 Kemi Badenoch 18%
55 Tom Tugendhat
Not much change in the win odds but in the final two betting, Kemi has shortened.
2.7 Rishi Sunak 37%
2.78 Penny Mordaunt 36%
7 Liz Truss 14%
9.4 Kemi Badenoch 11%
85 Tom Tugendhat
140 Dominic Raab
To make the final two
1.08 Rishi Sunak 93%
1.54 Penny Mordaunt 65%
2.62 Liz Truss 38%
5.8 Kemi Badenoch 17%
55 Tom Tugendhat
0 -
No. It's a policy of studied ambiguity.MoonRabbit said:
So the FO won’t allow us to help Taiwan? And not one of these candidates interested in changing this position?dixiedean said:
No.MoonRabbit said:
I have lifted this off of Sky, I was in a service when it was live, but it looks like they had tailored questions.Luckyguy1983 said:
Was the HS2 question not asked for Penny?MoonRabbit said:Quickfire round
Tugendhat faces a round of quickfire questions.
Would you intervene if China invade Taiwan?
I would definitely support our Japanese, Indonesian and Philippine allies.
Would you leave the European Convention on Human Rights?
No.
Will you build the whole of HS2?
Yes.
Are you fully committed by net zero by 2050?
Fully committed. What I need now is the policy and the planning, and nobody has set it up yet.
Would you privatise Channel 4?
No
Would you allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a generational decision - a generation hasn't passed.
Would you work for a prime minster who has broken the law?
Well I haven't worked for this one.
Does the next PM have to come from outside Johnson's cabinet?
We need a clean start.
It's Mordaunt's turn for a round of quickfire questions.
Are there any circumstances under which you would allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a settled question. No.
Are you committed to net zero by 2050?
Yes - but it has to not clobber people and must support levelling up .
Will you privatise Channel 4?
Not a priority for me.
Would you give Boris Johnson a cabinet position?
I don't think he'd be around to serve.
Will you withdraw the UK from the ECHR?
No.
Tom’s answers may have been a tad stronger? But to what extent is this the candidate themself solely to blame, or the team around them can help them prepare better - rational thought through policy and strong forms of words?
Tom is actually saying, no, I won’t help Taiwan?
He's repeating long-standing FO Policy.
Even Bomber Blair gets this one, and the Tory’s don’t?0 -
Those are great questions. Is there somewhere where the other contestents answer them?MoonRabbit said:
The give Boris cabinet job is interesting. If he thought it was his best chance of a comeback, and Truss offered him Foreign Secretary, Boris would take it wouldn’t he? In fact right now it would sort of suit him and the Conservatives?MoonRabbit said:
I have lifted this off of Sky, I was in a service when it was live, but it looks like they had tailored questions.Luckyguy1983 said:
Was the HS2 question not asked for Penny?MoonRabbit said:Quickfire round
Tugendhat faces a round of quickfire questions.
Would you intervene if China invade Taiwan?
I would definitely support our Japanese, Indonesian and Philippine allies.
Would you leave the European Convention on Human Rights?
No.
Will you build the whole of HS2?
Yes.
Are you fully committed by net zero by 2050?
Fully committed. What I need now is the policy and the planning, and nobody has set it up yet.
Would you privatise Channel 4?
No
Would you allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a generational decision - a generation hasn't passed.
Would you work for a prime minster who has broken the law?
Well I haven't worked for this one.
Does the next PM have to come from outside Johnson's cabinet?
We need a clean start.
It's Mordaunt's turn for a round of quickfire questions.
Are there any circumstances under which you would allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a settled question. No.
Are you committed to net zero by 2050?
Yes - but it has to not clobber people and must support levelling up .
Will you privatise Channel 4?
Not a priority for me.
Would you give Boris Johnson a cabinet position?
I don't think he'd be around to serve.
Will you withdraw the UK from the ECHR?
No.
Tom’s answers may have been a tad stronger? But to what extent is this the candidate themself solely to blame, or the team around them can help them prepare better - rational thought through policy and strong forms of words?
Tom is actually saying, no, I won’t help Taiwan?
Foreign Secretary Boris cannot be ruled out imo.
We need more quickfire questions like these. It's a great way to narrow the field. The ECHR question is pivotal and Rwanda would be another. Separates the sane from the fruitcakes.1 -
Yeah. No different to anyone else. Except with less money. For more likely to hold "outdated" views the older they are. Which is logical after all.Jonathan said:
I would say that the first step is to avoid any politics that uses the poor as a scapegoat or dehumanises them. The poor are not scroungers or lazy. They are us. We are not where they are because of the roll of the dice.Cookie said:
Thanks. I was trying to reflect on the politics of it, and what I would loosely term as 'my side' of politics doesn't have much of an answer to this situation. We can discourage it from arising by criminalising drugs and disincentivising the likes of his mother from having children, but that's never going to be wholly successful and isn't much consolation for the likes of this fella. But I don't think the left have a solution for this either apart from providing more resources for looking after the discarded pieces.Jonathan said:
A terrible tale. When I hear it, it reminds me why I vote Labour, that capitalism is not enough and that socialism would make a big difference. Capitalism is not kind to people who have bad luck.Cookie said:Jesus Christ.
In case anyone was feeling unduly chipper, let me relate a conversation I just had.
Walking down Great Ducie Street, Manchester, I saw an altercation between a gaunt looking fella in a tracksuit and a shabby looking old woman. I caught the eye of the fella, who apologised, and, in step, going in the same direction, explained himself: that was his mum, she was on heroin and couldn't sort himself out, and he was looking like being made homeless because she kept going round to his flat and causing trouble. And he was almost totally blind, as was his sister, having been born to a woman on heroin. And he had almost no teeth, since being hit in the face with a tire iron six months ago. And just one thing after another. Here was a fella who life took one gigantic shit on at the start followed by a succession of smaller but still substantial ones regularly along the way.
I say this not to make any particular point but just to reflect on how unbelievably awful some people have it.
However, I also remember that history shows us that no single political ideology or that government has all the answers. So it's not as simple as voting left and all will be well. We need balance.
So I really hope, somehow miraculously, our overall political culture manages to extract the best of right and left and maybe some new ideas and finds a way to make a better life for people with terrible luck.
Ultimately, politics mainly deals with the middle 96% and cases like this are perhaps more properly the domain of charity. (In Mamchester, we have a number of organisations dealing with matters of the bottom 2%, one of which is Big Change Manchester, which I think does a good job - I'm sure other cities have their equivalents. )
One cheerier note, I have just bought a birthday card for my Dad from WHSmith. It featured a Matt cartoon. The assistant behind the counter was an antithesis of daily Telegraph reader - young, male, vaguely gothic, sparkly nail varnish - but enthusiastically announced that that was his favourite range and he absolutloves those cartoons.
So perhaps the UK does still have something to hold us together: Matt cartoons.
Once you establish that, you can move forward.0 -
To be decided only once we have consulted and discussed the situation with our global allies (i.e. when the US tells us what we will do).dixiedean said:
No. It's a policy of studied ambiguity.MoonRabbit said:
So the FO won’t allow us to help Taiwan? And not one of these candidates interested in changing this position?dixiedean said:
No.MoonRabbit said:
I have lifted this off of Sky, I was in a service when it was live, but it looks like they had tailored questions.Luckyguy1983 said:
Was the HS2 question not asked for Penny?MoonRabbit said:Quickfire round
Tugendhat faces a round of quickfire questions.
Would you intervene if China invade Taiwan?
I would definitely support our Japanese, Indonesian and Philippine allies.
Would you leave the European Convention on Human Rights?
No.
Will you build the whole of HS2?
Yes.
Are you fully committed by net zero by 2050?
Fully committed. What I need now is the policy and the planning, and nobody has set it up yet.
Would you privatise Channel 4?
No
Would you allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a generational decision - a generation hasn't passed.
Would you work for a prime minster who has broken the law?
Well I haven't worked for this one.
Does the next PM have to come from outside Johnson's cabinet?
We need a clean start.
It's Mordaunt's turn for a round of quickfire questions.
Are there any circumstances under which you would allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a settled question. No.
Are you committed to net zero by 2050?
Yes - but it has to not clobber people and must support levelling up .
Will you privatise Channel 4?
Not a priority for me.
Would you give Boris Johnson a cabinet position?
I don't think he'd be around to serve.
Will you withdraw the UK from the ECHR?
No.
Tom’s answers may have been a tad stronger? But to what extent is this the candidate themself solely to blame, or the team around them can help them prepare better - rational thought through policy and strong forms of words?
Tom is actually saying, no, I won’t help Taiwan?
He's repeating long-standing FO Policy.
Even Bomber Blair gets this one, and the Tory’s don’t?2 -
so like CHB you think Keir has done brilliantly throwing himself in with Brexit?HYUFD said:
If Starmer cannot win back Leave voters in the redwall for Labour he won't win no matter how many tactical votes he getsMoonRabbit said:
Keir I ❤️ Brexit I do Starmer - who has already blown his chance of being PM by now getting ZERO tactical votes from Lib Dems and Greens At the next election. That Keir Starmer?CorrectHorseBattery said:Labour has probably been presented here with its best chance to win an election in about 10 years. A Tory Party with no strategy and no ideas and no sense of where the country is and where it is going.
It really is judgment time for Keir Starmer, if he can emulate Wilson he will win and win big. But otherwise he will lose.
I’m with Mike Smithson, I think he has made a terrible mistake, you are focussing on a few red wall voters, who could have come back even without Starmer making his mistake - Mike and myself looking how he is shredding himself with 85% of his own Party members and 66% of the country who want action on the half baked, unfinished, and **** business Brexit deal - not a do nothing approach to it.
My position is better than dopey Starmer’s. Fishing folk voted for Brexit. Fishing folk are now screwed by brexit. I just want to throw my arms around them, and help them. That is the only sane thing for opposition to say, not approach it as in or out.1 -
Well this chap had certainly rolled double 1s when he started out, followed by a succession of 1s.Jonathan said:
I would say that the first step is to avoid any politics that uses the poor as a scapegoat or dehumanises them. The poor are not scroungers or lazy. They are us. We are not where they are because of the roll of the dice.Cookie said:
Thanks. I was trying to reflect on the politics of it, and what I would loosely term as 'my side' of politics doesn't have much of an answer to this situation. We can discourage it from arising by criminalising drugs and disincentivising the likes of his mother from having children, but that's never going to be wholly successful and isn't much consolation for the likes of this fella. But I don't think the left have a solution for this either apart from providing more resources for looking after the discarded pieces.Jonathan said:
A terrible tale. When I hear it, it reminds me why I vote Labour, that capitalism is not enough and that socialism would make a big difference. Capitalism is not kind to people who have bad luck.Cookie said:Jesus Christ.
In case anyone was feeling unduly chipper, let me relate a conversation I just had.
Walking down Great Ducie Street, Manchester, I saw an altercation between a gaunt looking fella in a tracksuit and a shabby looking old woman. I caught the eye of the fella, who apologised, and, in step, going in the same direction, explained himself: that was his mum, she was on heroin and couldn't sort himself out, and he was looking like being made homeless because she kept going round to his flat and causing trouble. And he was almost totally blind, as was his sister, having been born to a woman on heroin. And he had almost no teeth, since being hit in the face with a tire iron six months ago. And just one thing after another. Here was a fella who life took one gigantic shit on at the start followed by a succession of smaller but still substantial ones regularly along the way.
I say this not to make any particular point but just to reflect on how unbelievably awful some people have it.
However, I also remember that history shows us that no single political ideology or that government has all the answers. So it's not as simple as voting left and all will be well. We need balance.
So I really hope, somehow miraculously, our overall political culture manages to extract the best of right and left and maybe some new ideas and finds a way to make a better life for people with terrible luck.
Ultimately, politics mainly deals with the middle 96% and cases like this are perhaps more properly the domain of charity. (In Mamchester, we have a number of organisations dealing with matters of the bottom 2%, one of which is Big Change Manchester, which I think does a good job - I'm sure other cities have their equivalents. )
One cheerier note, I have just bought a birthday card for my Dad from WHSmith. It featured a Matt cartoon. The assistant behind the counter was an antithesis of daily Telegraph reader - young, male, vaguely gothic, sparkly nail varnish - but enthusiastically announced that that was his favourite range and he absolutloves those cartoons.
So perhaps the UK does still have something to hold us together: Matt cartoons.
Once you establish that, you can move forward.
"I bet you had decent parents, didn't you?", he said to me. Well, yes, as it happens. But every single person I know had parents who were clearly far better suited to being parents than this fella did. Despite all this, he still appeared to love her.
As you say, the roll of a dice. Some are very very lucky, most of us do ok. Some get a really really shitty one.1 -
Trouble is, it identifies the 'cakes for those Party members who like lots of fruit and nut in their politics.Roger said:
Those are great questions. Is there somewhere where the other contestents answer them?MoonRabbit said:
The give Boris cabinet job is interesting. If he thought it was his best chance of a comeback, and Truss offered him Foreign Secretary, Boris would take it wouldn’t he? In fact right now it would sort of suit him and the Conservatives?MoonRabbit said:
I have lifted this off of Sky, I was in a service when it was live, but it looks like they had tailored questions.Luckyguy1983 said:
Was the HS2 question not asked for Penny?MoonRabbit said:Quickfire round
Tugendhat faces a round of quickfire questions.
Would you intervene if China invade Taiwan?
I would definitely support our Japanese, Indonesian and Philippine allies.
Would you leave the European Convention on Human Rights?
No.
Will you build the whole of HS2?
Yes.
Are you fully committed by net zero by 2050?
Fully committed. What I need now is the policy and the planning, and nobody has set it up yet.
Would you privatise Channel 4?
No
Would you allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a generational decision - a generation hasn't passed.
Would you work for a prime minster who has broken the law?
Well I haven't worked for this one.
Does the next PM have to come from outside Johnson's cabinet?
We need a clean start.
It's Mordaunt's turn for a round of quickfire questions.
Are there any circumstances under which you would allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a settled question. No.
Are you committed to net zero by 2050?
Yes - but it has to not clobber people and must support levelling up .
Will you privatise Channel 4?
Not a priority for me.
Would you give Boris Johnson a cabinet position?
I don't think he'd be around to serve.
Will you withdraw the UK from the ECHR?
No.
Tom’s answers may have been a tad stronger? But to what extent is this the candidate themself solely to blame, or the team around them can help them prepare better - rational thought through policy and strong forms of words?
Tom is actually saying, no, I won’t help Taiwan?
Foreign Secretary Boris cannot be ruled out imo.
We need more quickfire questions like these. It's a great way to narrow the field. The ECHR question is pivotal and Rwanda would be another. Separates the sane from the fruitcakes.3 -
Labour’s Kier Starmer and David Lammy using the Holocaust memorial as a backdrop for their party political video
This is a massive faux pas in Germany
https://twitter.com/derjamesjackson/status/15486220172676300810 -
We must always apply the Bonkers Tory Party Member overlay to any analysis of potential next leader.
As I keep reading (and posted yesterday an example of) there is a substantial number of such folk who viscerally despise Sunak.1 -
https://www.jewishnews.co.uk/starmer-labour-will-work-with-cst-in-new-effort-to-stamp-out-antisemitic-hate/williamglenn said:Labour’s Kier Starmer and David Lammy using the Holocaust memorial as a backdrop for their party political video
This is a massive faux pas in Germany
https://twitter.com/derjamesjackson/status/15486220172676300810 -
To be clear, the left can be guilty of dehumanising the poor.dixiedean said:
Yeah. No different to anyone else. Except with less money. For more likely to hold "outdated" views the older they are. Which is logical after all.Jonathan said:
I would say that the first step is to avoid any politics that uses the poor as a scapegoat or dehumanises them. The poor are not scroungers or lazy. They are us. We are not where they are because of the roll of the dice.Cookie said:
Thanks. I was trying to reflect on the politics of it, and what I would loosely term as 'my side' of politics doesn't have much of an answer to this situation. We can discourage it from arising by criminalising drugs and disincentivising the likes of his mother from having children, but that's never going to be wholly successful and isn't much consolation for the likes of this fella. But I don't think the left have a solution for this either apart from providing more resources for looking after the discarded pieces.Jonathan said:
A terrible tale. When I hear it, it reminds me why I vote Labour, that capitalism is not enough and that socialism would make a big difference. Capitalism is not kind to people who have bad luck.Cookie said:Jesus Christ.
In case anyone was feeling unduly chipper, let me relate a conversation I just had.
Walking down Great Ducie Street, Manchester, I saw an altercation between a gaunt looking fella in a tracksuit and a shabby looking old woman. I caught the eye of the fella, who apologised, and, in step, going in the same direction, explained himself: that was his mum, she was on heroin and couldn't sort himself out, and he was looking like being made homeless because she kept going round to his flat and causing trouble. And he was almost totally blind, as was his sister, having been born to a woman on heroin. And he had almost no teeth, since being hit in the face with a tire iron six months ago. And just one thing after another. Here was a fella who life took one gigantic shit on at the start followed by a succession of smaller but still substantial ones regularly along the way.
I say this not to make any particular point but just to reflect on how unbelievably awful some people have it.
However, I also remember that history shows us that no single political ideology or that government has all the answers. So it's not as simple as voting left and all will be well. We need balance.
So I really hope, somehow miraculously, our overall political culture manages to extract the best of right and left and maybe some new ideas and finds a way to make a better life for people with terrible luck.
Ultimately, politics mainly deals with the middle 96% and cases like this are perhaps more properly the domain of charity. (In Mamchester, we have a number of organisations dealing with matters of the bottom 2%, one of which is Big Change Manchester, which I think does a good job - I'm sure other cities have their equivalents. )
One cheerier note, I have just bought a birthday card for my Dad from WHSmith. It featured a Matt cartoon. The assistant behind the counter was an antithesis of daily Telegraph reader - young, male, vaguely gothic, sparkly nail varnish - but enthusiastically announced that that was his favourite range and he absolutloves those cartoons.
So perhaps the UK does still have something to hold us together: Matt cartoons.
Once you establish that, you can move forward.
Historically, solutions were focussed on big government programmes delivered through faceless (often unaccountable) institutions with one size fits all approach.
The view that the poor need to be pitied and saved is something that I have a bit of a problem with. That patrician view is not the worst sentiment in the world (and far better than doing nothing and has delivered some great progress), but it is another form of us vs. them.
People who are poor and in the gutter are just the same as you and me. They need help and respect. They do not need to be looked down on. We are all the same and should help each other.3 -
I agree with you Roger. Tom’s answer to Net Zero 50, effectively “how can any sane person be against Net Zero 50, there isn’t any detail on policy to achieve it yet” is absolutely perfect answer at smashing his opponents in this issue.Roger said:
Those are great questions. Is there somewhere where the other contestents answer them?MoonRabbit said:
The give Boris cabinet job is interesting. If he thought it was his best chance of a comeback, and Truss offered him Foreign Secretary, Boris would take it wouldn’t he? In fact right now it would sort of suit him and the Conservatives?MoonRabbit said:
I have lifted this off of Sky, I was in a service when it was live, but it looks like they had tailored questions.Luckyguy1983 said:
Was the HS2 question not asked for Penny?MoonRabbit said:Quickfire round
Tugendhat faces a round of quickfire questions.
Would you intervene if China invade Taiwan?
I would definitely support our Japanese, Indonesian and Philippine allies.
Would you leave the European Convention on Human Rights?
No.
Will you build the whole of HS2?
Yes.
Are you fully committed by net zero by 2050?
Fully committed. What I need now is the policy and the planning, and nobody has set it up yet.
Would you privatise Channel 4?
No
Would you allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a generational decision - a generation hasn't passed.
Would you work for a prime minster who has broken the law?
Well I haven't worked for this one.
Does the next PM have to come from outside Johnson's cabinet?
We need a clean start.
It's Mordaunt's turn for a round of quickfire questions.
Are there any circumstances under which you would allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a settled question. No.
Are you committed to net zero by 2050?
Yes - but it has to not clobber people and must support levelling up .
Will you privatise Channel 4?
Not a priority for me.
Would you give Boris Johnson a cabinet position?
I don't think he'd be around to serve.
Will you withdraw the UK from the ECHR?
No.
Tom’s answers may have been a tad stronger? But to what extent is this the candidate themself solely to blame, or the team around them can help them prepare better - rational thought through policy and strong forms of words?
Tom is actually saying, no, I won’t help Taiwan?
Foreign Secretary Boris cannot be ruled out imo.
We need more quickfire questions like these. It's a great way to narrow the field. The ECHR question is pivotal and Rwanda would be another. Separates the sane from the fruitcakes.
I don’t know if he can become PM from here this time, but there is no doubt at all Tom Tugendhat has won the actual campaign hands down.
I mean, how could TSE and HY both have called it wrong to start with?0 -
I think mental health is extremely important, but if you are seeking to be Prime Minister of a country you have to be able to handle being attacked.CorrectHorseBattery said:Penny is really being attacked, I am sure this can't be good for her mental health.
0 -
Game over in the cricket.0
-
I get the impression Liz Truss decided decades ago that tax cuts were the solution.
I suspect she hasn't given much thought recently as to which taxes, or why, or the downsides, or what they might achieve for your ordinary person?
It's not dissimilar to those who say what we need is Socialism.4 -
Yes, Cruachan is another one as far as I'm aware - I'm slightly surprised it was not on the wiki list. I also believe Dinorwig could be used to kick-start the grid.Eabhal said:
Cruachan is another dam that can do the storage thing, I think? Huge height difference (as anyone who has done the Munros will tell you). Other dams like Monar, Clunie etc have bigger reservoirs but less drop.JosiasJessop said:
But it's not just about having 'hills': it's about having the right conditions, both in terms of height and geology. Then wait until the environmentalists complain that the upper pond's are going to destroy the environment (and I do have some sympathy with that...)Luckyguy1983 said:
Quite a few hills here in Scotland, lots in Wales too.pm215 said:
Isn't the problem with that that we don't actually have very many suitable sites to do that in this country? We do it at Dinorwig and maybe one or two other places, but you need quite a bit of height difference and the ability to have a reservoir of water at top and bottom.Luckyguy1983 said:Someone here last time this was discussed said quite sensibly that you can just use excess wind power to push water up a hill, then let it roll down and generate power when the wind stops. That sounded fairly sensible. Not sure how much excess there is at present.
An engineer friend told me that Cruachan could be used to kick-start the entire UK grid in the event of nuclear war or a big cyber attack. Used to have MoD types guarding it.0 -
Cummings is a dead duck. Utterly ineffectual trolling campaign against Johnson which contributed exactly zero to actually getting rid of him. Gove may be a different matterMoonRabbit said:
Do we really believe B&J are focussing on social justice at expense of profits, or it’s a glib marketing campaign.IshmaelZ said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53741180Roger said:
In more Bonkers News (real or imagined) from the Tory war-room Kemi Badenoch has hit out at Ben & Jerry's owner Unilever for focusing on 'social justice at the expense of profits'.MoonRabbit said:
The give Boris cabinet job is interesting. If he thought it was his best chance of a comeback, and Truss offered him Foreign Secretary, Boris would take it wouldn’t he? In fact right now it would sort of suit him and the Conservatives?MoonRabbit said:
I have lifted this off of Sky, I was in a service when it was live, but it looks like they had tailored questions.Luckyguy1983 said:
Was the HS2 question not asked for Penny?MoonRabbit said:Quickfire round
Tugendhat faces a round of quickfire questions.
Would you intervene if China invade Taiwan?
I would definitely support our Japanese, Indonesian and Philippine allies.
Would you leave the European Convention on Human Rights?
No.
Will you build the whole of HS2?
Yes.
Are you fully committed by net zero by 2050?
Fully committed. What I need now is the policy and the planning, and nobody has set it up yet.
Would you privatise Channel 4?
No
Would you allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a generational decision - a generation hasn't passed.
Would you work for a prime minster who has broken the law?
Well I haven't worked for this one.
Does the next PM have to come from outside Johnson's cabinet?
We need a clean start.
It's Mordaunt's turn for a round of quickfire questions.
Are there any circumstances under which you would allow another referendum on Scottish independence?
It's a settled question. No.
Are you committed to net zero by 2050?
Yes - but it has to not clobber people and must support levelling up .
Will you privatise Channel 4?
Not a priority for me.
Would you give Boris Johnson a cabinet position?
I don't think he'd be around to serve.
Will you withdraw the UK from the ECHR?
No.
Tom’s answers may have been a tad stronger? But to what extent is this the candidate themself solely to blame, or the team around them can help them prepare better - rational thought through policy and strong forms of words?
Tom is actually saying, no, I won’t help Taiwan?
Foreign Secretary Boris cannot be ruled out imo.
As Bernard Manning (or similar) once said. 'You Couldn't Make it Up!'
This is a Priti Patel battle. KB strikes me more and more as a PP mini me. Not in a good way.
Cummings will be revealed as the Brains behind Badenoch success. As Boris exits number 10, Gove and Cummings will be entering it. Dom will probably carry the same box through the front door much like Hitler used the same rail carriage for French surrender.2 -
I would like some data on whether the vastly Labour supporting young (say those who are 35 or younger) are moving to vote Conservative at a lesser rate than their parents as they age?
If the answer to that question is no, then Labour's task is a lot easier considering the age/party affiliation disparity that now exists.
It's easy to talk of "ordinary voters" but what this actually means is "middle aged voters".0 -
There goes the vote in all the German constituencies.williamglenn said:Labour’s Kier Starmer and David Lammy using the Holocaust memorial as a backdrop for their party political video
This is a massive faux pas in Germany
https://twitter.com/derjamesjackson/status/15486220172676300810 -
I still don't understand how he has ceased to be a hard Brexiteer in their eyes. An original Brexiteer who was content with no deal. What did he do wrong? Not bonkers enough compared to your typical "hard Brexiteer"? Sounds a bit too much like Cameron and Osborne? Toppled the Brexit God?TOPPING said:We must always apply the Bonkers Tory Party Member overlay to any analysis of potential next leader.
As I keep reading (and posted yesterday an example of) there is a substantial number of such folk who viscerally despise Sunak.0
