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Should we be following Gove & backing Kemi Badenoch? – politicalbetting.com

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  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,530

    Somebody has said to me that Kemi is the new William Hague.

    In 1997 William Hague was everybody’s second choice and that helped him win as other people were eliminated.

    She’s everybody’s second choice.

    Maybe but if you look at Badenoch;s agenda, it seems rather more radical than Hague's from what I remember.

    Scrap net zero.....Scrap the online harms bill...?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 17,823
    TOPPING said:

    I must say having backed Hunt in the leadership race I find it very hard to stomach that he says he thinks he might have voted leave now that he thinks about it.

    I don't care about leave/remain but what opportunism.

    I just thought what a t**t.
  • JACK_WJACK_W Posts: 602
    A Penny (Mordaunt) For Your Thoughts :

    The Rival Candidates In Short :

    1. Liz Truss - Deep cover ex-LibDem student leader and republican. You've had several too many before the sun's over the yardarm.

  • TOPPING said:

    I must say having backed Hunt in the leadership race I find it very hard to stomach that he says he thinks he might have voted leave now that he thinks about it.

    I don't care about leave/remain but what opportunism.

    Truss has said that for years, but the difference is she sounds genuine when saying it and gives a genuine reason for saying it . . . that as the person who was negotiating trade deals for Britain she could see first hand the advantages of us acting independently now.

    Hunt saying it just sounds slimy and dishonest. Doesn't seem credible.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 18,804
    O/T

    Looks like the hottest place today was Northolt at around 32 degrees. Nothing special. I know next Sunday is when the particularly high temperatures are expected.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 7,022
    Scott_xP said:

    A conspirator suggests Mordaunt will absorb Tugendhat’s campaign (Tugendhat offered foreign sec), Truss will take Badenoch’s (Gove as chancellor)
    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1546516211499925504

    Yes. Do it Penny. Strike those deals.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 102,738

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    No, she has not even been a Cabinet Minister, she is just putting a marker down. Currently she is not even in the top 5 of MPs endorsements.

    As it stands Sunak leads with 37 MPs, then Mordaunt on 22, Tugendhat on 18, Truss on 15, Hunt on 14 and then Badenoch, Patel and Zahawi tied on 13

    https://conservativehome.com/2022/07/11/next-tory-leader-whos-backing-whom-our-working-list/

    Arent you backing No jobs in government ever Tugendhat?
    Tugendhat has chaired the Foreign Affairs Cttee however
    Does that count as 'cabinet' in Political Top Trumps then?
    It is still a leadership role, as was his position of Lieutenant Colonel in the Territorial Army
    I was captain of my cricket team. I'm up for PM.
    You aren't an MP so ineligible and chairing a cricket team is not as relevant as chairing a significant Commons Cttee or even being a senior army officer
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,167
    edited July 11
    Scott_xP said:

    A conspirator suggests Mordaunt will absorb Tugendhat’s campaign (Tugendhat offered foreign sec), Truss will take Badenoch’s (Gove as chancellor)
    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1546516211499925504

    Adding that gives it to Mordaunt and Truss.


  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 17,823
    Cookie said:

    I think there are far more important issues than the culture wars. And falling back on this shows they don't have a lot to say on issues that matter like CoL.

    If Morduant, Hunt won I wouldn't mind Labour losing. The rest of them scare me.

    Wash your mouth out! Mordaunt and Hunt are still Tories!
    You'll need to check that with HYUFD, of course.
    Sorry, we better run that past him first.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 2,512
    edited July 11
    Carnyx said:

    With an H ... And a shame it would never get further than Glasgow Central. Would have been good on a diesel on the West Highland or Highland lines.
    I managed to walk to the Wolf's lair in Loch an Eilean once. I can't say it was a good plan but the ice was at least a foot thick and it was below -20C...

    Badenoch refers to the drowned land of the River Spey (The Insh Marshes being the remnant example) so probably the Highland line would be correct.
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,530
    dixiedean said:

    MISTY said:

    dixiedean said:

    Am beginning to wonder if we are missing the obvious here. That is the favourite and front runner.
    He seems to be sitting back while everyone else performs a Dutch auction, knowing he'll make the final two.
    I wouldn't fancy a head-to-head debate with Rishi on some of the fantasy economic policies I've heard so far.

    Rishi Sunak spent GBP450bn he did not have on fighting covid. Some of it was embezzled. Some was wasted. Some was spent on a furlough policy that paid people to do nothing for far longer than it needed to.

    That's fantasy economic policy, right there.

    Have no dog in this fight.
    Just observing that one has seen the books.
    They obviously aren't pretty.
    Its a fair point, and clearly Sunak has the treasury behind him on his stance. He would indeed not be short of arguments.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 78,843
    Sandpit said:

    biggles said:

    dixiedean said:

    Has Ms Badenoch come out with any policies or opinions about the cost of living?

    Have any of them?
    Well Zahawi’s suggestion of cutting Departmental budgets by 20% during a period of 10% inflation is a useful policy for demonstrating he has no grip on reality.
    Departmental *admin* budgets.
    Excellent, no doubt they won't actually reduce the level of administration required, and so higher grade figures will just need to spend more time on tasks that are not productive for them.
  • Somebody has said to me that Kemi is the new William Hague.

    In 1997 William Hague was everybody’s second choice and that helped him win as other people were eliminated.

    She’s everybody’s second choice.

    Hague was elected in the wake of a massive General Election defeat, when every MP knew he was bloody unlikely to be PM in four years, let alone immediately. And even then he had more Cabinet experience than Badenoch (albeit as Welsh Secretary, which doesn't really count).

    Hague would not have been elected when the Conservatives were in office, looking for an immediate PM, and all the candidates with light CVs have a real problem that they wouldn't have in opposition.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 25,994
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    No, she has not even been a Cabinet Minister, she is just putting a marker down. Currently she is not even in the top 5 of MPs endorsements.

    As it stands Sunak leads with 37 MPs, then Mordaunt on 22, Tugendhat on 18, Truss on 15, Hunt on 14 and then Badenoch, Patel and Zahawi tied on 13

    https://conservativehome.com/2022/07/11/next-tory-leader-whos-backing-whom-our-working-list/

    Arent you backing No jobs in government ever Tugendhat?
    Tugendhat has chaired the Foreign Affairs Cttee however
    Does that count as 'cabinet' in Political Top Trumps then?
    It is still a leadership role, as was his position of Lieutenant Colonel in the Territorial Army
    I was captain of my cricket team. I'm up for PM.
    You aren't an MP so ineligible and chairing a cricket team is not as relevant as chairing a significant Commons Cttee or even being a senior army officer
    In the army, you order people to do X. Doesn't work that way in civilian life. I was leader of my Boy Scout patrol, which is probably more relevant in terms of learning to persuade people ...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 17,823

    Leon said:

    Jamie Wallis banned from driving for 6 months and 2500 fine. No by election.

    Six months? Less than if he'd blown p****d.
    I worked with someone who crashed his car into a parked Merc whilst pissed, caused £25 grands worth of damage, he abandoned his vehicle in the middle of the road and left his phone on the passenger seat. The police took the car (My company's car) into a secure compound and spent the next 24 hours trying to find the driver. He hid out in a friends house. Because the police never found him in time to prosecute for drink driving he got away with it completely. We sacked him for it but the police did nothing.

    Jamie Wallis banned from driving for 6 months and 2500 fine. No by election.

    Six months? Less than if he'd blown p****d.
    I worked with someone who crashed his car into a parked Merc whilst pissed, caused £25 grands worth of damage, he abandoned his vehicle in the middle of the road and left his phone on the passenger seat. The police took the car (My company's car) into a secure compound and spent the next 24 hours trying to find the driver. He hid out in a friends house. Because the police never found him in time to prosecute for drink driving he got away with it completely. We sacked him for it but the police did nothing.
    That's quite a story - that I shall file away for future use

    I'm intrigued that the police could not prosecute. No CCTV footage? Did he claim someone else was driving?

    I'm not doubting you, just curious that such an obvious ruse - run away and hide - would work
    I found it bizarre that the police did nothing against him. We told them who the driver was and where he lived and they went round there but couldn't find him and did nothing else.

    He tried to bring an unfair dismissal case against us saying that he was not drunk and had spent 4 hours in a pub drinking coke and that the accident had caused him to have a mental abhoration making him run away. The case never went anywhere.

    Funny handshake?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,176

    Sajid Javid is asked a third time where he was domiciled for tax purposes when he was a non-dom

    Again he won't say

    'I was not in public life. I haven't been non-domiciled for all my time in public life'

    Corrupt the lot of them

    Have you any evidence at all of illegality surrounding his finances? Any?

    I think it is perfectly legitimate for someone to have worked within the international rules regarding off shore accounts before they enter public life

    If you have evidence rather than supposition that he did anything that broke the law, please enlighten us.

    Otherwise you are just making stuff up because you don't like them.
    Illegality is an unnecessarily high test

    If he was a non-dom then either he was just passing through the UK as part of a get rich quick scheme, meaning his There'll Always Be An England/My old man's an Immigrant video is false, or he was lying to the taxman for financial gain at the expense of other taxpayers. Relevant to his premiership bid either way.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 2,831
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Jamie Wallis banned from driving for 6 months and 2500 fine. No by election.

    Six months? Less than if he'd blown p****d.
    I worked with someone who crashed his car into a parked Merc whilst pissed, caused £25 grands worth of damage, he abandoned his vehicle in the middle of the road and left his phone on the passenger seat. The police took the car (My company's car) into a secure compound and spent the next 24 hours trying to find the driver. He hid out in a friends house. Because the police never found him in time to prosecute for drink driving he got away with it completely. We sacked him for it but the police did nothing.

    Jamie Wallis banned from driving for 6 months and 2500 fine. No by election.

    Six months? Less than if he'd blown p****d.
    I worked with someone who crashed his car into a parked Merc whilst pissed, caused £25 grands worth of damage, he abandoned his vehicle in the middle of the road and left his phone on the passenger seat. The police took the car (My company's car) into a secure compound and spent the next 24 hours trying to find the driver. He hid out in a friends house. Because the police never found him in time to prosecute for drink driving he got away with it completely. We sacked him for it but the police did nothing.
    That's quite a story - that I shall file away for future use

    I'm intrigued that the police could not prosecute. No CCTV footage? Did he claim someone else was driving?

    I'm not doubting you, just curious that such an obvious ruse - run away and hide - would work
    I found it bizarre that the police did nothing against him. We told them who the driver was and where he lived and they went round there but couldn't find him and did nothing else.

    He tried to bring an unfair dismissal case against us saying that he was not drunk and had spent 4 hours in a pub drinking coke and that the accident had caused him to have a mental abhoration making him run away. The case never went anywhere.

    How did you know he was pished?
    Tracker on his vehicle showing it in a pub car park for 4 hours, he was often a bit tipsy at work, plus he smashed into a parked vehicle and ran away, leaving his phone behind and the car door open
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 78,843

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    No, she has not even been a Cabinet Minister, she is just putting a marker down. Currently she is not even in the top 5 of MPs endorsements.

    As it stands Sunak leads with 37 MPs, then Mordaunt on 22, Tugendhat on 18, Truss on 15, Hunt on 14 and then Badenoch, Patel and Zahawi tied on 13

    https://conservativehome.com/2022/07/11/next-tory-leader-whos-backing-whom-our-working-list/

    Arent you backing No jobs in government ever Tugendhat?
    Tugendhat has chaired the Foreign Affairs Cttee however
    Does that count as 'cabinet' in Political Top Trumps then?
    Dr Palmer suggests it would be seen as a weightier position than, say, a Minister of State at least.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 25,993

    Leon said:

    Jamie Wallis banned from driving for 6 months and 2500 fine. No by election.

    Six months? Less than if he'd blown p****d.
    I worked with someone who crashed his car into a parked Merc whilst pissed, caused £25 grands worth of damage, he abandoned his vehicle in the middle of the road and left his phone on the passenger seat. The police took the car (My company's car) into a secure compound and spent the next 24 hours trying to find the driver. He hid out in a friends house. Because the police never found him in time to prosecute for drink driving he got away with it completely. We sacked him for it but the police did nothing.

    Jamie Wallis banned from driving for 6 months and 2500 fine. No by election.

    Six months? Less than if he'd blown p****d.
    I worked with someone who crashed his car into a parked Merc whilst pissed, caused £25 grands worth of damage, he abandoned his vehicle in the middle of the road and left his phone on the passenger seat. The police took the car (My company's car) into a secure compound and spent the next 24 hours trying to find the driver. He hid out in a friends house. Because the police never found him in time to prosecute for drink driving he got away with it completely. We sacked him for it but the police did nothing.
    That's quite a story - that I shall file away for future use

    I'm intrigued that the police could not prosecute. No CCTV footage? Did he claim someone else was driving?

    I'm not doubting you, just curious that such an obvious ruse - run away and hide - would work
    I found it bizarre that the police did nothing against him. We told them who the driver was and where he lived and they went round there but couldn't find him and did nothing else.

    He tried to bring an unfair dismissal case against us saying that he was not drunk and had spent 4 hours in a pub drinking coke and that the accident had caused him to have a mental abhoration making him run away. The case never went anywhere.

    Thanks

    Looking back at my own life, maybe it isn't so unbelievable

    In my mid 20s I went out drinking in rural Bucks with some friends; one of us had a big company car

    We all got hammered in a country pub and then we drove on and my drunk mate lost control and the car span off the road and into a ditch, smashing it up entirely. Amazingly we were all unharmed - and we climbed out and walked away - and went to the next rustic pub to drink away the nerves. With much laughter

    No one saw or came to inspect the car that night. Next morning we all went back to the wreck and saw that we'd missed a concrete pillar and a telegraph pole on either side: would have killed us

    My friend told his company that he'd had an "accident". They came to tow away his car and gave him a new one the same day. And that was it
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 16,479

    So the best man of the former Chancellor and leadership candidate thinks that the leadership should go to someone who has had a big job in Cabinet. What a surprise!

    It is a truism that the job always goes to someone who has held one of the Great Offices of State or LotO. That Rishi's mate says it does not alter that.
    Yeah, I agree with him actually, Badenoch hasn't got a hope. I was just pointing out that he's hardly an unbiased commentator, thanks to our incestuous privately educated political/media elite.
    They all know each other. Half of them are related to each other. That is what seems remarkable about recent Conservative governments (and media).
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 42,056

    ScotRail train drivers accept new pay deal to end disruption

    ScotRail drivers will see their pay climb by 5% and also get more money for rest day and Sunday working, driving instructor and maternity pay along with a policy of no compulsory redundancies for the next five years.
    The nationalised train operator said 2.2% of the increase would be funded by Transport Scotland with the remaining 2.8% coming from ScotRail's funds.
    ScotRail came back into public ownership for the first time in 25 years in April, after previous operator Abellio had its franchise ended early over criticism of the quality of the service.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-62125059

    Thank feck for that - booked my "trans-Inverness" tickets last week for travel next week :)
    Her Majesty’s Scottish Ministers aim to please! 🚂 🏔 🥃 ⛳️ 🎻
    More worried about the extreme heat fecking up the ECML tracks down our way! Luckily, I don't leave until Tuesday.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 24,543
    Straw Poll.

    How many tory activists here who downed tools due to BoZo would pick 'em up for Patel?

    - Patel told the ERG that she was the best candidate to win the “hearts and minds of the party” & help win back activists who had refused to turn out to campaign at by-elections

    She said she can “mobilse the base” and make the changes necessary to ensure the party is successful

    https://twitter.com/matt_dathan/status/1546518267782742016
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 45,341
    Barnesian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    A conspirator suggests Mordaunt will absorb Tugendhat’s campaign (Tugendhat offered foreign sec), Truss will take Badenoch’s (Gove as chancellor)
    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1546516211499925504

    Adding that gives it to Mordaunt and Truss.


    If they could get real and all sort that out before tomorrow, would greatly hasten the process....
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 5,369
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    No, she has not even been a Cabinet Minister, she is just putting a marker down. Currently she is not even in the top 5 of MPs endorsements.

    As it stands Sunak leads with 37 MPs, then Mordaunt on 22, Tugendhat on 18, Truss on 15, Hunt on 14 and then Badenoch, Patel and Zahawi tied on 13

    https://conservativehome.com/2022/07/11/next-tory-leader-whos-backing-whom-our-working-list/

    Arent you backing No jobs in government ever Tugendhat?
    Tugendhat has chaired the Foreign Affairs Cttee however
    Does that count as 'cabinet' in Political Top Trumps then?
    It is still a leadership role, as was his position of Lieutenant Colonel in the Territorial Army
    I was captain of my cricket team. I'm up for PM.
    You aren't an MP so ineligible and chairing a cricket team is not as relevant as chairing a significant Commons Cttee or even being a senior army officer
    'Chairing a cricket team'! Nice.
    Obviously i was being silly, but lets look at former chairs of the foreign affairs select committee (i dont consider being in the TA relevant to the role of PM) - Crispin Blunt, Richard Ottaway, Mike Change UK Gapes...... giants.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 25,994

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Jamie Wallis banned from driving for 6 months and 2500 fine. No by election.

    Six months? Less than if he'd blown p****d.
    I worked with someone who crashed his car into a parked Merc whilst pissed, caused £25 grands worth of damage, he abandoned his vehicle in the middle of the road and left his phone on the passenger seat. The police took the car (My company's car) into a secure compound and spent the next 24 hours trying to find the driver. He hid out in a friends house. Because the police never found him in time to prosecute for drink driving he got away with it completely. We sacked him for it but the police did nothing.

    Jamie Wallis banned from driving for 6 months and 2500 fine. No by election.

    Six months? Less than if he'd blown p****d.
    I worked with someone who crashed his car into a parked Merc whilst pissed, caused £25 grands worth of damage, he abandoned his vehicle in the middle of the road and left his phone on the passenger seat. The police took the car (My company's car) into a secure compound and spent the next 24 hours trying to find the driver. He hid out in a friends house. Because the police never found him in time to prosecute for drink driving he got away with it completely. We sacked him for it but the police did nothing.
    That's quite a story - that I shall file away for future use

    I'm intrigued that the police could not prosecute. No CCTV footage? Did he claim someone else was driving?

    I'm not doubting you, just curious that such an obvious ruse - run away and hide - would work
    I found it bizarre that the police did nothing against him. We told them who the driver was and where he lived and they went round there but couldn't find him and did nothing else.

    He tried to bring an unfair dismissal case against us saying that he was not drunk and had spent 4 hours in a pub drinking coke and that the accident had caused him to have a mental abhoration making him run away. The case never went anywhere.

    How did you know he was pished?
    Tracker on his vehicle showing it in a pub car park for 4 hours, he was often a bit tipsy at work, plus he smashed into a parked vehicle and ran away, leaving his phone behind and the car door open
    Thanks! I did wonder!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 18,804
    edited July 11
    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    Travel update: Arrived into King's Cross 104 minutes late. Currently having a coffee in the lounge before heading to my.....


    ....Travelodge for the night.

    South of the river too!

    First class travel to South of the river Travelodge.

    Sublime to the ridiculous.
    Have you seen the cost of hotels in London at the moment? Oh boy is an understatement.

    Plus if all you want is a bed a Travelodge is more than adequate.
    The only affordable place I could find last week was the Heathrow Terminal 4 Premier Inn, which is pretty good because it's only been open for a relatively short time. Also the rooms are larger than many in central London.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,176

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    No, she has not even been a Cabinet Minister, she is just putting a marker down. Currently she is not even in the top 5 of MPs endorsements.

    As it stands Sunak leads with 37 MPs, then Mordaunt on 22, Tugendhat on 18, Truss on 15, Hunt on 14 and then Badenoch, Patel and Zahawi tied on 13

    https://conservativehome.com/2022/07/11/next-tory-leader-whos-backing-whom-our-working-list/

    Arent you backing No jobs in government ever Tugendhat?
    Tugendhat has chaired the Foreign Affairs Cttee however
    Does that count as 'cabinet' in Political Top Trumps then?
    It is still a leadership role, as was his position of Lieutenant Colonel in the Territorial Army
    I was captain of my cricket team. I'm up for PM.
    Dead Dog was special and so, by the doctrine of collective responsibility, were his cabinet. good case for saying normal rules don't apply.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 15,157

    Carnyx said:

    The key point in James Forsyth's analysis comes after the "but".

    In government, she is extremely unlikely to persuade 120 MPs to take a massive punt on a junior minister, regardless of whether they have certain merits.

    She might well emerge from this with her case strengthened to be LoTO is a few years time, and I suspect that is the realistic aim. But 20-1 to win now is far, far too short.

    Hmm, has it been remarked that Mr Gove not only manages to look good, future good of the party, etc., but also avoids upsetting any more immediately likely challenger by picking one? Keeps his bets open. And of course if against the odds Ms Badenoch wins, he's scored the jackpot.
    Sure. It's probably sensible enough for Gove to back someone who is an emerging figure who will probably come out of the process with her reputation improved and cabinet prospects strengthened (and may be LOTO by 2025). It is also a sly "you were the future once" up yours for Johnson.

    But I think 20-1 massively underestimates the hurdles for a relatively untested junior minister to be trusted by MPs in really challenging times to go straight in not just as party leader but PM. That just strikes me as VERY unlikely and people are under-pricing the issue.
    Andrea Leadsom says hello.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 78,843
    Scott_xP said:

    Straw Poll.

    How many tory activists here who downed tools due to BoZo would pick 'em up for Patel?

    All of them, if they know what's good for them...or else.

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 16,479

    Foxy said:

    Carnyx said:

    The key point in James Forsyth's analysis comes after the "but".

    In government, she is extremely unlikely to persuade 120 MPs to take a massive punt on a junior minister, regardless of whether they have certain merits.

    She might well emerge from this with her case strengthened to be LoTO is a few years time, and I suspect that is the realistic aim. But 20-1 to win now is far, far too short.

    Hmm, has it been remarked that Mr Gove not only manages to look good, future good of the party, etc., but also avoids upsetting any more immediately likely challenger by picking one? Keeps his bets open. And of course if against the odds Ms Badenoch wins, he's scored the jackpot.
    Sure. It's probably sensible enough for Gove to back someone who is an emerging figure who will probably come out of the process with her reputation improved and cabinet prospects strengthened (and may be LOTO by 2025). It is also a sly "you were the future once" up yours for Johnson.

    But I think 20-1 massively underestimates the hurdles for a relatively untested junior minister to be trusted by MPs in really challenging times to go straight in not just as party leader but PM. That just strikes me as VERY unlikely and people are under-pricing the issue.
    I think she will get the ERG backing.
    We don't even really know who is in the ERG. But in any event it's relatively loose and not a bloc vote. Even for Tory MPs whose number one issue is still Brexit, they aren't light on choice for authentic Brexiteer candidates. Indeed, the frontrunner was an original, referendum Leave supporter.

    I don't think this is anything near enough to get her into, or particularly close to, the top two amongst MPs.
    imo Liz Truss might do well out of the ERG thanks to her negotiating trade deals (or rolling over EU deals if you want to be cynical). Even if she is not a true believer, ERG types might appreciate that at least she has done something to make Brexit work.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,800
    IshmaelZ said:

    Sajid Javid is asked a third time where he was domiciled for tax purposes when he was a non-dom

    Again he won't say

    'I was not in public life. I haven't been non-domiciled for all my time in public life'

    Corrupt the lot of them

    Have you any evidence at all of illegality surrounding his finances? Any?

    I think it is perfectly legitimate for someone to have worked within the international rules regarding off shore accounts before they enter public life

    If you have evidence rather than supposition that he did anything that broke the law, please enlighten us.

    Otherwise you are just making stuff up because you don't like them.
    Illegality is an unnecessarily high test

    If he was a non-dom then either he was just passing through the UK as part of a get rich quick scheme, meaning his There'll Always Be An England/My old man's an Immigrant video is false, or he was lying to the taxman for financial gain at the expense of other taxpayers. Relevant to his premiership bid either way.
    I am not disagreeing that transparency is the better option.

    But if he was operating within all the relevant laws at the time (and we have no evidence that he wasn't) then it is wrong to call him corrupt.

    You can call him greedy or selfish. You can question his moral code.

    But corruption - to my mind - is a step beyond that.
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,530
    Scott_xP said:

    Straw Poll.

    How many tory activists here who downed tools due to BoZo would pick 'em up for Patel?

    - Patel told the ERG that she was the best candidate to win the “hearts and minds of the party” & help win back activists who had refused to turn out to campaign at by-elections

    She said she can “mobilse the base” and make the changes necessary to ensure the party is successful

    https://twitter.com/matt_dathan/status/1546518267782742016

    If Truss envelops Badenoch's campaign, I wonder if the latter would get Priti's job.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 24,543
    Pound falls to two-year low as political uncertainty adds to gloomy economy http://news.sky.com/story/pound-falls-to-two-year-low-as-political-uncertainty-adds-to-gloomy-economy-12650111
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 102,738
    edited July 11

    Somebody has said to me that Kemi is the new William Hague.

    In 1997 William Hague was everybody’s second choice and that helped him win as other people were eliminated.

    She’s everybody’s second choice.

    Hague was running for Leader of the Opposition not PM and even he had been in Cabinet as Welsh Secretary. Hague was also second in the first ballot in 1997 not joint 5th.

    I also fail to see why Badenoch is everyone's second choice. Hunt's backers would mainly go to Sunak or Tugendhat, Javid's backers would mainly go to Sunak or Mordaunt, Shapps backers would mainly go to Mordaunt.

    Badenoch may get the backing of the ERG if Braverman and Patel are knocked out and perhaps Zahawi's supporters too but that is it
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 24,543
    🚨New Westminster Voting Intention🚨

    📈15pt Labour lead, first @SavantaComRes poll since the PM resigned

    🌳Con 28 (-4)
    🌹Lab 43 (+2)
    🔶LD 12 (+1)
    🎗️SNP 4 (=)
    🌍Gre 4 (+1)
    ⬜️Other 8 (-2)

    2,168 UK adults, 8-10 Jul

    (chg from 1-3 Jul) https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1546519684056588289/photo/1
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,153
    MISTY said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Straw Poll.

    How many tory activists here who downed tools due to BoZo would pick 'em up for Patel?

    - Patel told the ERG that she was the best candidate to win the “hearts and minds of the party” & help win back activists who had refused to turn out to campaign at by-elections

    She said she can “mobilse the base” and make the changes necessary to ensure the party is successful

    https://twitter.com/matt_dathan/status/1546518267782742016

    If Truss envelops Badenoch's campaign, I wonder if the latter would get Priti's job.
    I think she's making a pretty good case regardless of who wins. Patel surely out the door.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,176
    Scott_xP said:

    🚨New Westminster Voting Intention🚨

    📈15pt Labour lead, first @SavantaComRes poll since the PM resigned

    🌳Con 28 (-4)
    🌹Lab 43 (+2)
    🔶LD 12 (+1)
    🎗️SNP 4 (=)
    🌍Gre 4 (+1)
    ⬜️Other 8 (-2)

    2,168 UK adults, 8-10 Jul

    (chg from 1-3 Jul) https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1546519684056588289/photo/1

    25 points with anyone else SKSFPE
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 54,003
  • 🚨New Westminster Voting Intention🚨

    📈15pt Labour lead, first @SavantaComRes poll since the PM resigned

    🌳Con 28 (-4)
    🌹Lab 43 (+2)
    🔶LD 12 (+1)
    🎗️SNP 4 (=)
    🌍Gre 4 (+1)
    ⬜️Other 8 (-2)

    2,168 UK adults, 8-10 Jul

    (chg from 1-3 Jul)

    I win again!

    15 pointer nailed on I said, boom!
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 7,022
    MISTY said:

    Somebody has said to me that Kemi is the new William Hague.

    In 1997 William Hague was everybody’s second choice and that helped him win as other people were eliminated.

    She’s everybody’s second choice.

    Maybe but if you look at Badenoch;s agenda, it seems rather more radical than Hague's from what I remember.

    Scrap net zero.....Scrap the online harms bill...?
    You are absolutely right Misty. Although fresh faces coming through are exciting, She would have to change her dry manifesto or lose general elections badly. Completely out of step with the everyday people of this country her platform is.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 2,244
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    No, she has not even been a Cabinet Minister, she is just putting a marker down. Currently she is not even in the top 5 of MPs endorsements.

    As it stands Sunak leads with 37 MPs, then Mordaunt on 22, Tugendhat on 18, Truss on 15, Hunt on 14 and then Badenoch, Patel and Zahawi tied on 13

    https://conservativehome.com/2022/07/11/next-tory-leader-whos-backing-whom-our-working-list/

    Arent you backing No jobs in government ever Tugendhat?
    Tugendhat has chaired the Foreign Affairs Cttee however
    Does that count as 'cabinet' in Political Top Trumps then?
    It is still a leadership role, as was his position of Lieutenant Colonel in the Territorial Army
    Being a Lt Col is admirable, and something to be proud of. It is not, however, any more relevant to being a good PM than being regional manager for Tesco. Having been a general (or a Brigadier depending on the role) might be.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 17,823
    ...
    Scott_xP said:

    🚨New Westminster Voting Intention🚨

    📈15pt Labour lead, first @SavantaComRes poll since the PM resigned

    🌳Con 28 (-4)
    🌹Lab 43 (+2)
    🔶LD 12 (+1)
    🎗️SNP 4 (=)
    🌍Gre 4 (+1)
    ⬜️Other 8 (-2)

    2,168 UK adults, 8-10 Jul

    (chg from 1-3 Jul) https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1546519684056588289/photo/1

    It's going to be wall to wall Con for the next 10 weeks. That lead won't last.
  • Scott_xP said:
    Sterling is at its strongest against Euro in months at $1.18 - was $1.16 last week.

    I wonder why you aren't mentioning that? 🤔
    Is 6 weeks really "months" ?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,176

    IshmaelZ said:

    Sajid Javid is asked a third time where he was domiciled for tax purposes when he was a non-dom

    Again he won't say

    'I was not in public life. I haven't been non-domiciled for all my time in public life'

    Corrupt the lot of them

    Have you any evidence at all of illegality surrounding his finances? Any?

    I think it is perfectly legitimate for someone to have worked within the international rules regarding off shore accounts before they enter public life

    If you have evidence rather than supposition that he did anything that broke the law, please enlighten us.

    Otherwise you are just making stuff up because you don't like them.
    Illegality is an unnecessarily high test

    If he was a non-dom then either he was just passing through the UK as part of a get rich quick scheme, meaning his There'll Always Be An England/My old man's an Immigrant video is false, or he was lying to the taxman for financial gain at the expense of other taxpayers. Relevant to his premiership bid either way.
    I am not disagreeing that transparency is the better option.

    But if he was operating within all the relevant laws at the time (and we have no evidence that he wasn't) then it is wrong to call him corrupt.

    You can call him greedy or selfish. You can question his moral code.

    But corruption - to my mind - is a step beyond that.
    I am calling him, with evidence, a liar or at least a serious misrepresenter.

    We have had enough of liars.

    I agree "corrupt" is not borne out by the evidence but it doesn't have to be
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 44,323
    edited July 11

    ScotRail train drivers accept new pay deal to end disruption

    ScotRail drivers will see their pay climb by 5% and also get more money for rest day and Sunday working, driving instructor and maternity pay along with a policy of no compulsory redundancies for the next five years.
    The nationalised train operator said 2.2% of the increase would be funded by Transport Scotland with the remaining 2.8% coming from ScotRail's funds.
    ScotRail came back into public ownership for the first time in 25 years in April, after previous operator Abellio had its franchise ended early over criticism of the quality of the service.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-62125059

    Thank feck for that - booked my "trans-Inverness" tickets last week for travel next week :)
    Her Majesty’s Scottish Ministers aim to please! 🚂 🏔 🥃 ⛳️ 🎻
    But will it work? The latest strikes were not by Scottish train drivers but by other Unions, specifically the NUR. If they don't reach a deal the current chaos will continue.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 9,513
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Jamie Wallis banned from driving for 6 months and 2500 fine. No by election.

    Six months? Less than if he'd blown p****d.
    I worked with someone who crashed his car into a parked Merc whilst pissed, caused £25 grands worth of damage, he abandoned his vehicle in the middle of the road and left his phone on the passenger seat. The police took the car (My company's car) into a secure compound and spent the next 24 hours trying to find the driver. He hid out in a friends house. Because the police never found him in time to prosecute for drink driving he got away with it completely. We sacked him for it but the police did nothing.

    Jamie Wallis banned from driving for 6 months and 2500 fine. No by election.

    Six months? Less than if he'd blown p****d.
    I worked with someone who crashed his car into a parked Merc whilst pissed, caused £25 grands worth of damage, he abandoned his vehicle in the middle of the road and left his phone on the passenger seat. The police took the car (My company's car) into a secure compound and spent the next 24 hours trying to find the driver. He hid out in a friends house. Because the police never found him in time to prosecute for drink driving he got away with it completely. We sacked him for it but the police did nothing.
    That's quite a story - that I shall file away for future use

    I'm intrigued that the police could not prosecute. No CCTV footage? Did he claim someone else was driving?

    I'm not doubting you, just curious that such an obvious ruse - run away and hide - would work
    I found it bizarre that the police did nothing against him. We told them who the driver was and where he lived and they went round there but couldn't find him and did nothing else.

    He tried to bring an unfair dismissal case against us saying that he was not drunk and had spent 4 hours in a pub drinking coke and that the accident had caused him to have a mental abhoration making him run away. The case never went anywhere.

    Thanks

    Looking back at my own life, maybe it isn't so unbelievable

    In my mid 20s I went out drinking in rural Bucks with some friends; one of us had a big company car

    We all got hammered in a country pub and then we drove on and my drunk mate lost control and the car span off the road and into a ditch, smashing it up entirely. Amazingly we were all unharmed - and we climbed out and walked away - and went to the next rustic pub to drink away the nerves. With much laughter

    No one saw or came to inspect the car that night. Next morning we all went back to the wreck and saw that we'd missed a concrete pillar and a telegraph pole on either side: would have killed us

    My friend told his company that he'd had an "accident". They came to tow away his car and gave him a new one the same day. And that was it
    One result of stories like that is that the police are obsessed with breathalysing drivers after a collision. So when a driver knocked me off my bicycle the police were annoyed with me that I'd let him go before they arrived and could breathalyse him.

    At first he didn't answer the phone number he'd left me, so they thought he'd done a runner, and tried to spot his number plate on the CCTV of a nearby garage. Anyway, an hour or so later he phoned them back, they went and tested him, he hadn't been drinking, and so as far as they were concerned that was that. Accident could have happened to anyone. Nothing wrong with a car driver mowing down a cyclist as long as they do it sober.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,176

    ...

    Scott_xP said:

    🚨New Westminster Voting Intention🚨

    📈15pt Labour lead, first @SavantaComRes poll since the PM resigned

    🌳Con 28 (-4)
    🌹Lab 43 (+2)
    🔶LD 12 (+1)
    🎗️SNP 4 (=)
    🌍Gre 4 (+1)
    ⬜️Other 8 (-2)

    2,168 UK adults, 8-10 Jul

    (chg from 1-3 Jul) https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1546519684056588289/photo/1

    It's going to be wall to wall Con for the next 10 weeks. That lead won't last.
    I would expect that to extend it.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 7,362
    Scott_xP said:

    Pound falls to two-year low as political uncertainty adds to gloomy economy http://news.sky.com/story/pound-falls-to-two-year-low-as-political-uncertainty-adds-to-gloomy-economy-12650111

    Needs to be specified against what it's falling, mind (the dollar). Against the Euro, it's not doing too badly. Is this dollar strength or £ and Euro weakness? Or all three?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 24,543
    Latest @YouGov Eurotrack poll: #EURef2 vi: Join EU 45 (+4); Stay Out 36 (-2). Fwork 9-10.6 (ch since 16-17.5). Record lead of Join vs Stay Out in this @YouGov series. https://bit.ly/3G9hMK4
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 45,341
    Scott_xP said:

    Straw Poll.

    How many tory activists here who downed tools due to BoZo would pick 'em up for Patel?

    - Patel told the ERG that she was the best candidate to win the “hearts and minds of the party” & help win back activists who had refused to turn out to campaign at by-elections

    She said she can “mobilse the base” and make the changes necessary to ensure the party is successful

    https://twitter.com/matt_dathan/status/1546518267782742016

    Patel's runnin' was never about bein' PM. It was about stayin' in the Cabinet.

    Which is probably not a winnin' hand.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 44,323
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Straw Poll.

    How many tory activists here who downed tools due to BoZo would pick 'em up for Patel?

    All of them, if they know what's good for them...or else.

    Rwanda is lovely at this time of year. Of course, she may think of somewhere not so nice....
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    ...

    Scott_xP said:

    🚨New Westminster Voting Intention🚨

    📈15pt Labour lead, first @SavantaComRes poll since the PM resigned

    🌳Con 28 (-4)
    🌹Lab 43 (+2)
    🔶LD 12 (+1)
    🎗️SNP 4 (=)
    🌍Gre 4 (+1)
    ⬜️Other 8 (-2)

    2,168 UK adults, 8-10 Jul

    (chg from 1-3 Jul) https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1546519684056588289/photo/1

    It's going to be wall to wall Con for the next 10 weeks. That lead won't last.
    Utterly meaningless until the Tories have a new leader.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 16,937
    "Would she be Starmer's worst nightmare"

    She'd certainly be mine! I read about her last night. She's significantly to the right of Priti Patel and who'd have thought there would be any space there?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 7,022
    edited July 11

    🚨New Westminster Voting Intention🚨

    📈15pt Labour lead, first @SavantaComRes poll since the PM resigned

    🌳Con 28 (-4)
    🌹Lab 43 (+2)
    🔶LD 12 (+1)
    🎗️SNP 4 (=)
    🌍Gre 4 (+1)
    ⬜️Other 8 (-2)

    2,168 UK adults, 8-10 Jul

    (chg from 1-3 Jul)

    I win again!

    15 pointer nailed on I said, boom!

    Still a lowish Antipasti of 59.

    Er, let me explain myself, anti-Tory parties. I have shortened it and will use this. Antipasti.

    before we get into the main Psychological Discussion, it will do for starters.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 24,543
    More eye-catching Tory hires...

    Ousted Boris spinner Lee Caine's new PR agency Charlesbye is providing staff for Rishi Sunak's campaign... https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1545448172520198146
  • CookieCookie Posts: 7,362

    MISTY said:

    Somebody has said to me that Kemi is the new William Hague.

    In 1997 William Hague was everybody’s second choice and that helped him win as other people were eliminated.

    She’s everybody’s second choice.

    Maybe but if you look at Badenoch;s agenda, it seems rather more radical than Hague's from what I remember.

    Scrap net zero.....Scrap the online harms bill...?
    You are absolutely right Misty. Although fresh faces coming through are exciting, She would have to change her dry manifesto or lose general elections badly. Completely out of step with the everyday people of this country her platform is.
    Scrapping Net Zero is politically challenging. Would it be popular? Dunno. It might be. Hasn't really been seriously tested.
    Scrapping the online harms bill will create a rumpus but pass largely unlamented in the real world.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 2,244
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Straw Poll.

    How many tory activists here who downed tools due to BoZo would pick 'em up for Patel?

    All of them, if they know what's good for them...or else.

    Rwanda?
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,153
    Roger said:

    "Would she be Starmer's worst nightmare"

    She'd certainly be mine! I read about her last night. She's significantly to the right of Priti Patel and who'd have thought there would be any space there?

    I don't think she's to the right of Patel, it's just the comparison is made more difficult by how ineffectual Patel is.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 9,513
    Scott_xP said:

    Pound falls to two-year low as political uncertainty adds to gloomy economy http://news.sky.com/story/pound-falls-to-two-year-low-as-political-uncertainty-adds-to-gloomy-economy-12650111

    The pound is up nearly two cents against the Euro since Johnson's ministers started resigning in droves.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 103,337
    Scott_xP said:

    🚨New Westminster Voting Intention🚨

    📈15pt Labour lead, first @SavantaComRes poll since the PM resigned

    🌳Con 28 (-4)
    🌹Lab 43 (+2)
    🔶LD 12 (+1)
    🎗️SNP 4 (=)
    🌍Gre 4 (+1)
    ⬜️Other 8 (-2)

    2,168 UK adults, 8-10 Jul

    (chg from 1-3 Jul) https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1546519684056588289/photo/1

    The country is loving Starmer's position on Brexit that he announced last week.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 7,022
    edited July 11
    Cookie said:

    MISTY said:

    Somebody has said to me that Kemi is the new William Hague.

    In 1997 William Hague was everybody’s second choice and that helped him win as other people were eliminated.

    She’s everybody’s second choice.

    Maybe but if you look at Badenoch;s agenda, it seems rather more radical than Hague's from what I remember.

    Scrap net zero.....Scrap the online harms bill...?
    You are absolutely right Misty. Although fresh faces coming through are exciting, She would have to change her dry manifesto or lose general elections badly. Completely out of step with the everyday people of this country her platform is.
    Scrapping Net Zero is politically challenging. Would it be popular? Dunno. It might be. Hasn't really been seriously tested.
    Scrapping the online harms bill will create a rumpus but pass largely unlamented in the real world.
    I think we can answer Cookie. Scrapping or watering down Net Zero 50 puts a party out of step with the electorate to the point of badly losing general elections.

    https://www.ukonward.com/reports/taking-the-temperature/
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 25,994
    DavidL said:

    ScotRail train drivers accept new pay deal to end disruption

    ScotRail drivers will see their pay climb by 5% and also get more money for rest day and Sunday working, driving instructor and maternity pay along with a policy of no compulsory redundancies for the next five years.
    The nationalised train operator said 2.2% of the increase would be funded by Transport Scotland with the remaining 2.8% coming from ScotRail's funds.
    ScotRail came back into public ownership for the first time in 25 years in April, after previous operator Abellio had its franchise ended early over criticism of the quality of the service.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-62125059

    Thank feck for that - booked my "trans-Inverness" tickets last week for travel next week :)
    Her Majesty’s Scottish Ministers aim to please! 🚂 🏔 🥃 ⛳️ 🎻
    But will it work? The latest strikes were not by Scottish train drivers but by other Unions, specifically the NUR. If they don't reach a deal the current chaos will continue.
    Isn't that involving HMG rather than the SG? Or have I missed something?
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    Cookie said:

    MISTY said:

    Somebody has said to me that Kemi is the new William Hague.

    In 1997 William Hague was everybody’s second choice and that helped him win as other people were eliminated.

    She’s everybody’s second choice.

    Maybe but if you look at Badenoch;s agenda, it seems rather more radical than Hague's from what I remember.

    Scrap net zero.....Scrap the online harms bill...?
    You are absolutely right Misty. Although fresh faces coming through are exciting, She would have to change her dry manifesto or lose general elections badly. Completely out of step with the everyday people of this country her platform is.
    Scrapping Net Zero is politically challenging. Would it be popular? Dunno. It might be. Hasn't really been seriously tested.
    Scrapping the online harms bill will create a rumpus but pass largely unlamented in the real world.
    Does she believe in scrapping net zero as an aspiration, or just downgrading it from Holy Writ?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 17,823
    ...
    Applicant said:

    ...

    Scott_xP said:

    🚨New Westminster Voting Intention🚨

    📈15pt Labour lead, first @SavantaComRes poll since the PM resigned

    🌳Con 28 (-4)
    🌹Lab 43 (+2)
    🔶LD 12 (+1)
    🎗️SNP 4 (=)
    🌍Gre 4 (+1)
    ⬜️Other 8 (-2)

    2,168 UK adults, 8-10 Jul

    (chg from 1-3 Jul) https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1546519684056588289/photo/1

    It's going to be wall to wall Con for the next 10 weeks. That lead won't last.
    Utterly meaningless until the Tories have a new leader.
    The honeymoon will be fairly meaningless too, unless an election is called (unlikely).
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 53,486
    IshmaelZ said:

    ...

    Scott_xP said:

    🚨New Westminster Voting Intention🚨

    📈15pt Labour lead, first @SavantaComRes poll since the PM resigned

    🌳Con 28 (-4)
    🌹Lab 43 (+2)
    🔶LD 12 (+1)
    🎗️SNP 4 (=)
    🌍Gre 4 (+1)
    ⬜️Other 8 (-2)

    2,168 UK adults, 8-10 Jul

    (chg from 1-3 Jul) https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1546519684056588289/photo/1

    It's going to be wall to wall Con for the next 10 weeks. That lead won't last.
    I would expect that to extend it.
    As all the candidates except one seem determined to bankrupt the British state then you may be right.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 78,843
    It's not a unique observation, and I know it's unfair, but I have to think Sunak's chances are hit by how wealthy he is. Personal wealth should not particularly matter, one can understand those who are struggling and best placed to help them without struggling yourselve, but he is so damn rich it is hard to look past.

    Many of the rest are very well off, but they didn't come from money (and unlike Sunak are not near billionaire levels).
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 2,328
    edited July 11

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Jamie Wallis banned from driving for 6 months and 2500 fine. No by election.

    Six months? Less than if he'd blown p****d.
    I worked with someone who crashed his car into a parked Merc whilst pissed, caused £25 grands worth of damage, he abandoned his vehicle in the middle of the road and left his phone on the passenger seat. The police took the car (My company's car) into a secure compound and spent the next 24 hours trying to find the driver. He hid out in a friends house. Because the police never found him in time to prosecute for drink driving he got away with it completely. We sacked him for it but the police did nothing.

    Jamie Wallis banned from driving for 6 months and 2500 fine. No by election.

    Six months? Less than if he'd blown p****d.
    I worked with someone who crashed his car into a parked Merc whilst pissed, caused £25 grands worth of damage, he abandoned his vehicle in the middle of the road and left his phone on the passenger seat. The police took the car (My company's car) into a secure compound and spent the next 24 hours trying to find the driver. He hid out in a friends house. Because the police never found him in time to prosecute for drink driving he got away with it completely. We sacked him for it but the police did nothing.
    That's quite a story - that I shall file away for future use

    I'm intrigued that the police could not prosecute. No CCTV footage? Did he claim someone else was driving?

    I'm not doubting you, just curious that such an obvious ruse - run away and hide - would work
    I found it bizarre that the police did nothing against him. We told them who the driver was and where he lived and they went round there but couldn't find him and did nothing else.

    He tried to bring an unfair dismissal case against us saying that he was not drunk and had spent 4 hours in a pub drinking coke and that the accident had caused him to have a mental abhoration making him run away. The case never went anywhere.

    Thanks

    Looking back at my own life, maybe it isn't so unbelievable

    In my mid 20s I went out drinking in rural Bucks with some friends; one of us had a big company car

    We all got hammered in a country pub and then we drove on and my drunk mate lost control and the car span off the road and into a ditch, smashing it up entirely. Amazingly we were all unharmed - and we climbed out and walked away - and went to the next rustic pub to drink away the nerves. With much laughter

    No one saw or came to inspect the car that night. Next morning we all went back to the wreck and saw that we'd missed a concrete pillar and a telegraph pole on either side: would have killed us

    My friend told his company that he'd had an "accident". They came to tow away his car and gave him a new one the same day. And that was it
    One result of stories like that is that the police are obsessed with breathalysing drivers after a collision. So when a driver knocked me off my bicycle the police were annoyed with me that I'd let him go before they arrived and could breathalyse him.

    At first he didn't answer the phone number he'd left me, so they thought he'd done a runner, and tried to spot his number plate on the CCTV of a nearby garage. Anyway, an hour or so later he phoned them back, they went and tested him, he hadn't been drinking, and so as far as they were concerned that was that. Accident could have happened to anyone. Nothing wrong with a car driver mowing down a cyclist as long as they do it sober.
    It's mad that using a car to injure/kill someone (accidentally) is regarded by the law as much more reasonable than using some other tool.

    "A collision between a cyclist and a car" = vulnerable road user smashed by useless driver in huge metal box.
  • northern_monkeynorthern_monkey Posts: 1,045
    edited July 11
    Roger said:

    "Would she be Starmer's worst nightmare"

    She'd certainly be mine! I read about her last night. She's significantly to the right of Priti Patel and who'd have thought there would be any space there?

    She's well to the right of about 98% of the UK. Unfortunately it's probably the remaining 2% who bankroll the Tories. So, in their super-rich, I-don't-want-to-pay-taxes-that-help-the-oiks way, they think she's the bees knees. And electable.

    She'd crash and burn spectacularly at a general election. But that's some time away, currently.

    It's full throttle culture war - it's all they have left. Government by owning the libs.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 78,843

    IshmaelZ said:

    ...

    Scott_xP said:

    🚨New Westminster Voting Intention🚨

    📈15pt Labour lead, first @SavantaComRes poll since the PM resigned

    🌳Con 28 (-4)
    🌹Lab 43 (+2)
    🔶LD 12 (+1)
    🎗️SNP 4 (=)
    🌍Gre 4 (+1)
    ⬜️Other 8 (-2)

    2,168 UK adults, 8-10 Jul

    (chg from 1-3 Jul) https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1546519684056588289/photo/1

    It's going to be wall to wall Con for the next 10 weeks. That lead won't last.
    I would expect that to extend it.
    As all the candidates except one seem determined to bankrupt the British state then you may be right.
    Is not the purpose of the British state to support the Conservative Party? I read that online I am sure, so bankrupting would be fine.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    ...

    Applicant said:

    ...

    Scott_xP said:

    🚨New Westminster Voting Intention🚨

    📈15pt Labour lead, first @SavantaComRes poll since the PM resigned

    🌳Con 28 (-4)
    🌹Lab 43 (+2)
    🔶LD 12 (+1)
    🎗️SNP 4 (=)
    🌍Gre 4 (+1)
    ⬜️Other 8 (-2)

    2,168 UK adults, 8-10 Jul

    (chg from 1-3 Jul) https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1546519684056588289/photo/1

    It's going to be wall to wall Con for the next 10 weeks. That lead won't last.
    Utterly meaningless until the Tories have a new leader.
    The honeymoon will be fairly meaningless too, unless an election is called (unlikely).
    Indeed. And after that is party conference season, which always sends the polls haywire.

    There won't be any VI polling which is remotely meaningful until October. The copy/pasters can take a few months off...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 78,843
    Roger said:

    "Would she be Starmer's worst nightmare"

    She'd certainly be mine! I read about her last night. She's significantly to the right of Priti Patel and who'd have thought there would be any space there?

    On what measure particularly is she not only to the right of Patel, but 'significantly' so? I only know her from her comments about 'woke' matters.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 4,083
    Barnesian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    A conspirator suggests Mordaunt will absorb Tugendhat’s campaign (Tugendhat offered foreign sec), Truss will take Badenoch’s (Gove as chancellor)
    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1546516211499925504

    Adding that gives it to Mordaunt and Truss.


    But the 1922, being part of a party favouring FPTP, will give it to Sunak in that scenario. Surely? :innocent:
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 17,823

    🚨New Westminster Voting Intention🚨

    📈15pt Labour lead, first @SavantaComRes poll since the PM resigned

    🌳Con 28 (-4)
    🌹Lab 43 (+2)
    🔶LD 12 (+1)
    🎗️SNP 4 (=)
    🌍Gre 4 (+1)
    ⬜️Other 8 (-2)

    2,168 UK adults, 8-10 Jul

    (chg from 1-3 Jul)

    I win again!

    15 pointer nailed on I said, boom!

    Still a lowish Antipasti of 59.

    Er, let me explain myself, anti-Tory parties. I have shortened it and will use this. Antipasti.

    before we get into the main Psychological Discussion, it will do for starters.
    Very good.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 7,116
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    I must say having backed Hunt in the leadership race I find it very hard to stomach that he says he thinks he might have voted leave now that he thinks about it.

    I don't care about leave/remain but what opportunism.

    That is quite feeble

    Hunt has not got a chance
    That's what's so strange.

    Standing and losing for what you believe in makes sense.

    Folding your beliefs to win makes sense.

    Folding your beliefs and then losing, selling your soul for nothing... What's the point?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 7,022
    Roger said:

    "Would she be Starmer's worst nightmare"

    She'd certainly be mine! I read about her last night. She's significantly to the right of Priti Patel and who'd have thought there would be any space there?

    What is out there to the right of Patel? Pirate Libertarianism?

    We have one of those so why don’t we ask St Bart for his thoughts on Bad Enoch’s platform? 😇
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,419
    FPT
    sarissa said:

    biggles said:

    eek said:

    CatMan said:

    From The Guardian Live Blog:

    Commons sitting delayed because of water leaking into chamber

    "Today’s sitting of the House of Commons has been delayed because water has bee pouring in through the ceiling of the chamber after a suspected leak, PA Media reports.

    "Buckets were catching drips around the green benches, with a clean-up operation under way amid efforts to keep the central table dry with protective coverings.

    It was unclear what was causing the leak since the weather in Westminster was very warm and dry.

    A message on the annunciator monitors in Parliament states: “Today’s sitting is delayed due to a water leak in the chamber. Revised sitting time to be announced.”

    Police officers could be seen entering the Commons chamber with what appeared to be water-absorbent blankets.

    Entry to the chamber was restricted while the issue was being dealt with.

    Labour MP Emma Hardy who briefly walked into the Commons chamber before being turned away told PA the water leak appears to be “just in front of the despatch box”.

    She said said: “I have just walked through and there are a lot of people working, around six or seven. Lots of blankets on the floor and a machine, which I’m not quite sure what is doing. It [the leak] is just in front of the despatch box, but the roof looks fine.

    Which PM candidate is going to admit that Westminster is now past it's prime and needs to be replaced

    and that replacement needs to be outside London.
    Rwanda?
    Edinburgh. Stir the pot.

    We had a charming and bijou little debating chamber for 100 or so , but have found a much better use for it:

    https://tinyurl.com/2mdy4hjf
    T
  • Applicant said:

    ...

    Applicant said:

    ...

    Scott_xP said:

    🚨New Westminster Voting Intention🚨

    📈15pt Labour lead, first @SavantaComRes poll since the PM resigned

    🌳Con 28 (-4)
    🌹Lab 43 (+2)
    🔶LD 12 (+1)
    🎗️SNP 4 (=)
    🌍Gre 4 (+1)
    ⬜️Other 8 (-2)

    2,168 UK adults, 8-10 Jul

    (chg from 1-3 Jul) https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1546519684056588289/photo/1

    It's going to be wall to wall Con for the next 10 weeks. That lead won't last.
    Utterly meaningless until the Tories have a new leader.
    The honeymoon will be fairly meaningless too, unless an election is called (unlikely).
    Indeed. And after that is party conference season, which always sends the polls haywire.

    There won't be any VI polling which is remotely meaningful until October. The copy/pasters can take a few months off...
    All you ever do is moan.

    VI polls helps the site's raison d'être.
    Wanklicant
  • Now I really am off, going for a run!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 41,813

    Now I really am off, going for a run!

    Stay hydrated.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Applicant said:

    ...

    Applicant said:

    ...

    Scott_xP said:

    🚨New Westminster Voting Intention🚨

    📈15pt Labour lead, first @SavantaComRes poll since the PM resigned

    🌳Con 28 (-4)
    🌹Lab 43 (+2)
    🔶LD 12 (+1)
    🎗️SNP 4 (=)
    🌍Gre 4 (+1)
    ⬜️Other 8 (-2)

    2,168 UK adults, 8-10 Jul

    (chg from 1-3 Jul) https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1546519684056588289/photo/1

    It's going to be wall to wall Con for the next 10 weeks. That lead won't last.
    Utterly meaningless until the Tories have a new leader.
    The honeymoon will be fairly meaningless too, unless an election is called (unlikely).
    Indeed. And after that is party conference season, which always sends the polls haywire.

    There won't be any VI polling which is remotely meaningful until October. The copy/pasters can take a few months off...
    All you ever do is moan.

    VI polls helps the site's raison d'être.
    Right, so we can let the unsophisticated punters overreact to polling and make some money off them, all while not spinning ourself into a tizzy.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 2,328

    Carnyx said:

    With an H ... And a shame it would never get further than Glasgow Central. Would have been good on a diesel on the West Highland or Highland lines.
    I managed to walk to the Wolf's lair in Loch an Eilean once. I can't say it was a good plan but the ice was at least a foot thick and it was below -20C...

    Badenoch refers to the drowned land of the River Spey (The Insh Marshes being the remnant example) so probably the Highland line would be correct.
    I've been out the lair on Lochindorb. Didn't realise he had two.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Applicant said:

    ...

    Applicant said:

    ...

    Scott_xP said:

    🚨New Westminster Voting Intention🚨

    📈15pt Labour lead, first @SavantaComRes poll since the PM resigned

    🌳Con 28 (-4)
    🌹Lab 43 (+2)
    🔶LD 12 (+1)
    🎗️SNP 4 (=)
    🌍Gre 4 (+1)
    ⬜️Other 8 (-2)

    2,168 UK adults, 8-10 Jul

    (chg from 1-3 Jul) https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1546519684056588289/photo/1

    It's going to be wall to wall Con for the next 10 weeks. That lead won't last.
    Utterly meaningless until the Tories have a new leader.
    The honeymoon will be fairly meaningless too, unless an election is called (unlikely).
    Indeed. And after that is party conference season, which always sends the polls haywire.

    There won't be any VI polling which is remotely meaningful until October. The copy/pasters can take a few months off...
    All you ever do is moan.

    VI polls helps the site's raison d'être.
    Wanklicant
    Funny sort of ignoring me you have there.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 44,323
    I think its too big a jump and those who are suggesting her campaign is mainly about profile and a much more expansive job are probably right. OTOH Boris had the weakest cabinet that I can recall so we have nothing like the normal complement of heavy weights. They are also far more tainted by how much they stuck with him than a Minister of State would be.

    I find it hard to see past Rishi, Truss or Mordaunt and of those I think Rishi wins.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 17,823

    Applicant said:

    ...

    Applicant said:

    ...

    Scott_xP said:

    🚨New Westminster Voting Intention🚨

    📈15pt Labour lead, first @SavantaComRes poll since the PM resigned

    🌳Con 28 (-4)
    🌹Lab 43 (+2)
    🔶LD 12 (+1)
    🎗️SNP 4 (=)
    🌍Gre 4 (+1)
    ⬜️Other 8 (-2)

    2,168 UK adults, 8-10 Jul

    (chg from 1-3 Jul) https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1546519684056588289/photo/1

    It's going to be wall to wall Con for the next 10 weeks. That lead won't last.
    Utterly meaningless until the Tories have a new leader.
    The honeymoon will be fairly meaningless too, unless an election is called (unlikely).
    Indeed. And after that is party conference season, which always sends the polls haywire.

    There won't be any VI polling which is remotely meaningful until October. The copy/pasters can take a few months off...
    All you ever do is moan.

    VI polls helps the site's raison d'être.
    Wanklicant
    Off topic

    He's gonna give you a shedload of "off topics" for that!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 78,843
    Interesting - Tory MPs are less authoritarian than Members but more right wing on the economy. I'd suspect that's because most people do not understand economics, and while MPs also do not understand it, they are more likely to have committed to some ideological position on it.

    This is only half right. The Tory grassroots are to the right of the parliamentary party on some things, but to the left on others (esp the economy).
    https://twitter.com/philipjcowley/status/1545315176026710016


  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 45,341
    Scott_xP said:

    Latest @YouGov Eurotrack poll: #EURef2 vi: Join EU 45 (+4); Stay Out 36 (-2). Fwork 9-10.6 (ch since 16-17.5). Record lead of Join vs Stay Out in this @YouGov series. https://bit.ly/3G9hMK4

    Watch those join EU numbers crumble - when you tell them what the cost of rejoining would be.

    Never. Gonna. Happen.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,800

    Scott_xP said:

    🚨New Westminster Voting Intention🚨

    📈15pt Labour lead, first @SavantaComRes poll since the PM resigned

    🌳Con 28 (-4)
    🌹Lab 43 (+2)
    🔶LD 12 (+1)
    🎗️SNP 4 (=)
    🌍Gre 4 (+1)
    ⬜️Other 8 (-2)

    2,168 UK adults, 8-10 Jul

    (chg from 1-3 Jul) https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1546519684056588289/photo/1

    The country is loving Starmer's position on Brexit that he announced last week.
    Yes. That was the most important event of last week. Nowt else happened
  • Roger said:

    "Would she be Starmer's worst nightmare"

    She'd certainly be mine! I read about her last night. She's significantly to the right of Priti Patel and who'd have thought there would be any space there?

    What is out there to the right of Patel? Pirate Libertarianism?

    We have one of those so why don’t we ask St Bart for his thoughts on Bad Enoch’s platform? 😇
    It depends upon what you mean as right. I'm right economically, but very liberal socially.

    So that would put me well to the right on economic issues, but not on social issues were "right" is typically taken to mean illiberal (then again, the left equally tend to be illiberal nowadays too). Patel is socially "right" which I don't like, she's far too illiberal and authoritarian for my tastes.

    I've not seen enough of Badenoch to judge her platform to be perfectly honest.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 2,328

    Now I really am off, going for a run!

    Have fun! I managed 2.2km this morning before a twinge in my abs. Not good.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Scott_xP said:

    Latest @YouGov Eurotrack poll: #EURef2 vi: Join EU 45 (+4); Stay Out 36 (-2). Fwork 9-10.6 (ch since 16-17.5). Record lead of Join vs Stay Out in this @YouGov series. https://bit.ly/3G9hMK4

    Watch those join EU numbers crumble - when you tell them what the cost of rejoining would be.

    Never. Gonna. Happen.
    No mention of the euro and Schengen in the question, I see.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,176

    Scott_xP said:

    Latest @YouGov Eurotrack poll: #EURef2 vi: Join EU 45 (+4); Stay Out 36 (-2). Fwork 9-10.6 (ch since 16-17.5). Record lead of Join vs Stay Out in this @YouGov series. https://bit.ly/3G9hMK4

    Watch those join EU numbers crumble - when you tell them what the cost of rejoining would be.

    Never. Gonna. Happen.
    Seared on evrybody's internal retinae forever: 350m a week, plus inflation.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 7,022
    Applicant said:

    ...

    Scott_xP said:

    🚨New Westminster Voting Intention🚨

    📈15pt Labour lead, first @SavantaComRes poll since the PM resigned

    🌳Con 28 (-4)
    🌹Lab 43 (+2)
    🔶LD 12 (+1)
    🎗️SNP 4 (=)
    🌍Gre 4 (+1)
    ⬜️Other 8 (-2)

    2,168 UK adults, 8-10 Jul

    (chg from 1-3 Jul) https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1546519684056588289/photo/1

    It's going to be wall to wall Con for the next 10 weeks. That lead won't last.
    Utterly meaningless until the Tories have a new leader.
    I disagree with you both - the further something falls behind the further it has to climb back. The Tories can lose the next election in the coming months.

    What do you think is plunging Tories into the 20s and elevating Labour in the polls? Wall to wall coverage of jobs being threatened, tax cuts to be funded somehow, intercut with what the hell is Boris and the most ugly cabinet ever doing today?

    (Builds the argument for a coronation not months of drift)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 42,056
    Scott_xP said:

    🚨New Westminster Voting Intention🚨

    📈15pt Labour lead, first @SavantaComRes poll since the PM resigned

    🌳Con 28 (-4)
    🌹Lab 43 (+2)
    🔶LD 12 (+1)
    🎗️SNP 4 (=)
    🌍Gre 4 (+1)
    ⬜️Other 8 (-2)

    2,168 UK adults, 8-10 Jul

    (chg from 1-3 Jul) https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1546519684056588289/photo/1

    @MoonRabbit please explain :lol:
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 24,543

    Watch those join EU numbers crumble - when you tell them what the cost of rejoining would be.

    It more than pays for itself, but then you know that...
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 4,083
    kle4 said:

    Interesting - Tory MPs are less authoritarian than Members but more right wing on the economy. I'd suspect that's because most people do not understand economics, and while MPs also do not understand it, they are more likely to have committed to some ideological position on it.

    This is only half right. The Tory grassroots are to the right of the parliamentary party on some things, but to the left on others (esp the economy).
    https://twitter.com/philipjcowley/status/1545315176026710016


    You can see why Cons have tried to make it all about social values recently - the MPs are much closer to Labour voters there than Lab MPs are
This discussion has been closed.