Wallace and Tugendhat to be the final 2 MPs sent to the membership.
Sunak to be knocked out in the final round like Portillo in 2001, with Boris lending enough of his supporters to Tugendhat to complete his revenge on Sunak. Boris himself will vote for Wallace as will the bulk of his remaining loyalists
I think you're letting your loathing of Sunak grossly affect your judgement here. But we shall see.
The theory that boris loyalists are a meaningful bloc is bizarre. Who are they (other than HYUFD)? I can't see even nads/jrm sticking with him once it is clear there is no profit in doing so
They might well have really liked him and his leadership. But he won't be the next leader, what reason is there to be loyal to him after that? We'd think it ridiculous for people to be loyal to Peter Bone or Theresa May to name but two random backbenchers.
Former equalities minister Kemi Badenoch, who resigned from government two days ago, has announced she will be joining the running to be Boris Johnson’s successor.
She told the Times she would radically cut the size of the state and provide a “limited government focused on essentials”.
I wonder where that would leave the Red Wall and the Levelling Up agenda?
Wallace and Tugendhat to be the final 2 MPs sent to the membership.
Sunak to be knocked out in the final round like Portillo in 2001, with Boris lending enough of his supporters to Tugendhat to complete his revenge on Sunak. Boris himself will vote for Wallace as will the bulk of his remaining loyalists
I think you're letting your loathing of Sunak grossly affect your judgement here. But we shall see.
Who is your favoured candidate at the moment John? (I think I've asked you before, though with apologies I can't remember the answer - Hunt? If I'm right, is it still the case?)
Thanks and until recently I would indeed have said Hunt, but now fairly certain he can't win. No conspicuous favourite. The Saj would probably be my current first choice but I could easily 'live with' Sunak, Tugenhat or Wallace.
Truss is a definite no (not up to the job) as is Braveman.
Former equalities minister Kemi Badenoch, who resigned from government two days ago, has announced she will be joining the running to be Boris Johnson’s successor.
She told the Times she would radically cut the size of the state and provide a “limited government focused on essentials”.
I wonder where that would leave the Red Wall and the Levelling Up agenda?
Devil's in the detail of that. One person's luxury is another's essential. Would be very interesting to hear that sort of view cross-examined in a debate, but I doubt it'll come to that unfortunately.
Former equalities minister Kemi Badenoch, who resigned from government two days ago, has announced she will be joining the running to be Boris Johnson’s successor.
She told the Times she would radically cut the size of the state and provide a “limited government focused on essentials”.
I wonder where that would leave the Red Wall and the Levelling Up agenda?
I'm just trying to look for trading bets. Absolutely no idea how this will play out. Doesn't help that we don't know the rules. But right now Braverman looks value to trade. Wallace to declare or not? That is the question. Throws it all in the air.
If the Tories go for Sunak, it would make Britain the first significant western country to have an Asian as leader
That’s not a small thing. It is also a good thing. It shows that Britain really is inclusive, and you can go places, whoever you are. That’s a great signal to send out
Also, it shoots a load of Labour foxes. It will be much harder for Starmer, facing Sunak
I am tending Sunak’s way, I just wish he was 5 inches taller
Who would be the first European leader of an Asian nation? Does it really matter.
Obama was the first non white leader of the USA but then the USA is a nation mainly composed of immigrants unlike Europe
Got news for you. Europeans are *all* immigrants.
Unless you mean born there. But that doesn't make sense against your US stat.
No they aren't, most Europeans have had European ancestry for at least 1,000 years. As most Asians have had Asian ancestry for at least 1000 years.
Most US citizens however have European or African or Latin American or Asian ancestry within the last 200 years. The only non immigrant Americans are the native American Indians
Oh? So most US citizens's lines suddenly pop iunto existence 200 years ago? Huge if true.
Plus you didn't say anything about timing.
I've got even more news for ytou. This chap Mr Darwin wrote some interesting books a centiry or two ago. His successors have shown that all non-African humans are immigrants from Africa.
I know where you are coming from, but actually the last “fact” is now vigorously disputed. By the multiple origins theory
There are just too many confounding and inexplicable hominid remains from too many weird places. Especially China
I'm just trying to look for trading bets. Absolutely no idea how this will play out. Doesn't help that we don't know the rules. But right now Braverman looks value. Wallace to declare or not? That is the question.
I think that’s the market right now, while things are fluid.
Grandchildren tucked up and catching up on tomorrow papers
The Guardian reporting Rishi already has 80 - 100 backers which I assume is way ahead of anyone else
They're going for a coronation. But it's not worth the whines. Just make sure the second candidate is acceptable, and the members can have their say.
80 to 100 is not even a third of the parliamentary party, let alone a clear majority.
Thank you for assuming I cannot count. The point was if he has a huge lead already, they might be hoping they can push on ahead to the point they do have a clear majority.
That wouldn't prevent a contest, we saw a big lead did not stop that for Boris/Hunt, but if he is so far ahead some will pressure the others to drop out.
Baker backing Braverman is interesting - the looney fringe is getting itself together
Her v Truss for the ballot
Why is Braverman a loony?
I recall her on QT claiming that dropping checks on Ukrainian refugees would lead to terror attacks in the UK. You may feel that’s rational analysis, I think it was the statement of a loony.
I really hope it does end up as Sunak v Truss. My head wants Sunak, for entirely disinterested reasons, while my heart wants Truss.
Off topic and NSFW-ish but funny, ask Alexa to translate "Boris Johnson carrot coffee bean 100" into Welsh
Welsh accent responds with what sounds very clearly to be "Boris Johnson moron fuck off ye c*nt"
Truss? Why? She's a loon, isn't she?
I have never seen a single loony thing from Truss, that justifies that reputation.
She's been holding major Cabinet posts for nearly a decade now, with the greatest criticism of her that people seem to be able to level is that she said "pork markets" and spoke about cheese weirdly in a speech nearly a decade ago. There doesn't seem to be any scandal at all around her handling of any of the offices she's held.
Plus she seems to fairly consistently hold economically dry and socially liberal views, which I approve of.
Plus she seems to be one of the few Cabinet Ministers who can seriously think through difficult issues and come up with sensible reforms after doing so. Even many of the critics here of the government's handling of the NI issue seemed to acknowledge her proposals for green lane/red lane handling of NI trade is a reasonable and sensible package of reforms.
Finally I met her years ago, before the Brexit referendum, and I was very impressed with her. A very smart cookie, an interesting discussion about UK's productivity problems, before it was popular to discuss that.
I agree with all that. It's interesting to hear that she was compelling in person too. I get massive red flags from the way she comports herself, seems a little bit difficult for her to show emotion and she sometimes seems a little unaware of her body. Lights on nobody home. By contrast, Mordaunt inhabits her own skin very well. Even standing with a frown on her face, in a floppy black outfit after what looks like a hard day, she looks fully present and she compells. I know that sounds very shallow, but we had a very difficult time with PM May who had similar difficulties with that sort of thing and it was excruciating occasionally.
Now, we all expect a new leader to cull plenty of members from the current Cabinet. But will the new leader go scorched earth with the fired like May? Will there be some big beasts they fear to remove? Who staying in would we consider to be a sign the new leader is a bad 'in?
My suspicion is that there will be a big push for the next cabinet to be a unity cabinet. I see places for people like Patel (though probably demoted), Hunt, Badenoch, Mordaunt, Tugendhat, Javid. Obviously depends on who wins but if it’s Truss/Rishi/Wallace I see them taking that approach.
If Truss doesn’t win I think she’s got a good chance for CoE.
I'm just trying to look for trading bets. Absolutely no idea how this will play out. Doesn't help that we don't know the rules. But right now Braverman looks value to trade. Wallace to declare or not? That is the question. Throws it all in the air.
I cannot see value in Bravermen, at least not now.
I think Wallace will sit it out, probably backing Sunak, Mordaunt will be the sort of sane solid Tory needed after the election defeat, so will save her powder for then.
It will be Sunak and Truss in the final 2, with Truss winning the members.
@btaylor The Twitter Board is committed to closing the transaction on the price and terms agreed upon with Mr. Musk and plans to pursue legal action to enforce the merger agreement. We are confident we will prevail in the Delaware Court of Chancery.
If the Tories go for Sunak, it would make Britain the first significant western country to have an Asian as leader
That’s not a small thing. It is also a good thing. It shows that Britain really is inclusive, and you can go places, whoever you are. That’s a great signal to send out
Also, it shoots a load of Labour foxes. It will be much harder for Starmer, facing Sunak
I am tending Sunak’s way, I just wish he was 5 inches taller
Who would be the first European leader of an Asian nation? Does it really matter.
Obama was the first non white leader of the USA but then the USA is a nation mainly composed of immigrants unlike Europe
Got news for you. Europeans are *all* immigrants.
Unless you mean born there. But that doesn't make sense against your US stat.
No they aren't, most Europeans have had European ancestry for at least 1,000 years. As most Asians have had Asian ancestry for at least 1000 years.
Most US citizens however have European or African or Latin American or Asian ancestry within the last 200 years. The only non immigrant Americans are the native American Indians
Oh? So most US citizens's lines suddenly pop iunto existence 200 years ago? Huge if true.
Plus you didn't say anything about timing.
I've got even more news for ytou. This chap Mr Darwin wrote some interesting books a centiry or two ago. His successors have shown that all non-African humans are immigrants from Africa.
So what that doesn't change the fact most citizens of the nation of the USA are descended from immigrants and most citizens of European and Asian and African nations are not. Those nations being created centuries after humans moved out of Africa
This is so fantastically stupid.
You are conflating “nations” with “race” and “genetics” and basic fucking facts that all humans eminate from one “tree” out of Africa.
All citizens of the US by virtue of being Native American or of European or Chinese ancestry are still - weirdly - humans who all came from the same origin as people in Europe or Africa or Asia.
Tell me a place in Europe that is not a result of immigration.
If the Tories go for Sunak, it would make Britain the first significant western country to have an Asian as leader
That’s not a small thing. It is also a good thing. It shows that Britain really is inclusive, and you can go places, whoever you are. That’s a great signal to send out
Also, it shoots a load of Labour foxes. It will be much harder for Starmer, facing Sunak
I am tending Sunak’s way, I just wish he was 5 inches taller
Who would be the first European leader of an Asian nation? Does it really matter.
Obama was the first non white leader of the USA but then the USA is a nation mainly composed of immigrants unlike Europe
Got news for you. Europeans are *all* immigrants.
Unless you mean born there. But that doesn't make sense against your US stat.
No they aren't, most Europeans have had European ancestry for at least 1,000 years. As most Asians have had Asian ancestry for at least 1000 years.
Most US citizens however have European or African or Latin American or Asian ancestry within the last 200 years. The only non immigrant Americans are the native American Indians
Oh? So most US citizens's lines suddenly pop iunto existence 200 years ago? Huge if true.
Plus you didn't say anything about timing.
I've got even more news for ytou. This chap Mr Darwin wrote some interesting books a centiry or two ago. His successors have shown that all non-African humans are immigrants from Africa.
I know where you are coming from, but actually the last “fact” is now vigorously disputed. By the multiple origins theory
There are just too many confounding and inexplicable hominid remains from too many weird places. Especially China
The old multi region vs out of Africa has rumbled for over 60 years. I think the paucity of the fossil record may mislead, but it’s also possible that people moved far more widely in pre history, and I’m talking ancestral hominids, than we ever imagined. The idea of species slowly drifting around the globe may not be reality when a hominid could easily walk 30 miles a day.
I'm just trying to look for trading bets. Absolutely no idea how this will play out. Doesn't help that we don't know the rules. But right now Braverman looks value to trade. Wallace to declare or not? That is the question. Throws it all in the air.
My instinct tells me that Wallace won't run, and he's currently negotiating the size of the MoD budget with the leading contenders.
If the Tories go for Sunak, it would make Britain the first significant western country to have an Asian as leader
That’s not a small thing. It is also a good thing. It shows that Britain really is inclusive, and you can go places, whoever you are. That’s a great signal to send out
Also, it shoots a load of Labour foxes. It will be much harder for Starmer, facing Sunak
I am tending Sunak’s way, I just wish he was 5 inches taller
Who would be the first European leader of an Asian nation? Does it really matter.
Obama was the first non white leader of the USA but then the USA is a nation mainly composed of immigrants unlike Europe
Yes, it matters. And it’s good for Britain’s soft power for us to be seen as a welcoming, non-racist, inclusive and tolerant country: for the very good reason that we REALLY ARE all these things, certainly by the standards of 98% of the countries in the world
This Woke discourse that Britain is some hot bed of hateful racism really fucks my noodles. We are NOT racist. Not by the standards of history, not by the standards of our peers. We are imperfect. Oh yes we are imperfect. But we are not this Nazi toilet that the Guardian CONSTANTLY tries to portray
And because that narrative has penetrated progressive opinion on the continent and in the US, having Sunak as PM would confound a lot of people.
Personally I don't give a flying flint dildo what progressive opinion on the continent or in the US thinks. I can't imagine a worse reason for electing someone than to get into their good graces.
We have had Sunak occupying the second most powerful office in the land. He wasn't good enough.
@btaylor The Twitter Board is committed to closing the transaction on the price and terms agreed upon with Mr. Musk and plans to pursue legal action to enforce the merger agreement. We are confident we will prevail in the Delaware Court of Chancery.
If the Tories go for Sunak, it would make Britain the first significant western country to have an Asian as leader
That’s not a small thing. It is also a good thing. It shows that Britain really is inclusive, and you can go places, whoever you are. That’s a great signal to send out
Also, it shoots a load of Labour foxes. It will be much harder for Starmer, facing Sunak
I am tending Sunak’s way, I just wish he was 5 inches taller
Who would be the first European leader of an Asian nation? Does it really matter.
Obama was the first non white leader of the USA but then the USA is a nation mainly composed of immigrants unlike Europe
Yes, it matters. And it’s good for Britain’s soft power for us to be seen as a welcoming, non-racist, inclusive and tolerant country: for the very good reason that we REALLY ARE all these things, certainly by the standards of 98% of the countries in the world
This Woke discourse that Britain is some hot bed of hateful racism really fucks my noodles. We are NOT racist. Not by the standards of history, not by the standards of our peers. We are imperfect. Oh yes we are imperfect. But we are not this Nazi toilet that the Guardian CONSTANTLY tries to portray
And because that narrative has penetrated progressive opinion on the continent and in the US, having Sunak as PM would confound a lot of people.
Yes, the New York Times would probably prolapse as it tried to contort itself around the fact that racist Brexity Britain has…. An Indian prime minister? and everyone is totally cool with that?
It wouldn't surprise me if Sunak's campaign is already trying to work out how to get Hunt into the final two with him, knowing that he, Sunak, would definitely be elected in those circumstances. The same thing allegedly happened last time with Johnson supporters voting tactically to stop Gove getting into the final two.
@btaylor The Twitter Board is committed to closing the transaction on the price and terms agreed upon with Mr. Musk and plans to pursue legal action to enforce the merger agreement. We are confident we will prevail in the Delaware Court of Chancery.
I'm just trying to look for trading bets. Absolutely no idea how this will play out. Doesn't help that we don't know the rules. But right now Braverman looks value to trade. Wallace to declare or not? That is the question. Throws it all in the air.
If Wallace doesn't stand who's he most likely to endorse? I have no idea.
@btaylor The Twitter Board is committed to closing the transaction on the price and terms agreed upon with Mr. Musk and plans to pursue legal action to enforce the merger agreement. We are confident we will prevail in the Delaware Court of Chancery.
So, wait, Musk has backed off and now Twitter is desperate to be taken over by him? Is that it?
Twitter has massive issues (spam, bots, no idea who their users are, difficult to monetarise them, TikTok is now the cool social media, pain in the arse activist workforce) and the current owners are going to get a massive payout (and the share price has gone through the floor since Elon said he was going to buy it).
Wallace and Tugendhat to be the final 2 MPs sent to the membership.
Sunak to be knocked out in the final round like Portillo in 2001, with Boris lending enough of his supporters to Tugendhat to complete his revenge on Sunak. Boris himself will vote for Wallace as will the bulk of his remaining loyalists
I think you're letting your loathing of Sunak grossly affect your judgement here. But we shall see.
Who is your favoured candidate at the moment John? (I think I've asked you before, though with apologies I can't remember the answer - Hunt? If I'm right, is it still the case?)
Thanks and until recently I would indeed have said Hunt, but now fairly certain he can't win. No conspicuous favourite. The Saj would probably be my current first choice but I could easily 'live with' Sunak, Tugenhat or Wallace.
Truss is a definite no (not up to the job) as is Braveman.
Thanks. My view is that there is a wider range of liveable-with candidates than there has been for some time. This (combined with the Lab and LD parties looking increasingly grown-up compared to 2019) gives cause for some hope for the future of politics.
I'm just trying to look for trading bets. Absolutely no idea how this will play out. Doesn't help that we don't know the rules. But right now Braverman looks value to trade. Wallace to declare or not? That is the question. Throws it all in the air.
My instinct tells me that Wallace won't run, and he's currently negotiating the size of the MoD budget with the leading contenders.
He will run, if he was not going to he would already have ruled himself out like Raab, Gove, Baker and Hancock
Wallace and Tugendhat to be the final 2 MPs sent to the membership.
Sunak to be knocked out in the final round like Portillo in 2001, with Boris lending enough of his supporters to Tugendhat to complete his revenge on Sunak. Boris himself will vote for Wallace as will the bulk of his remaining loyalists
I think you're letting your loathing of Sunak grossly affect your judgement here. But we shall see.
Who is your favoured candidate at the moment John? (I think I've asked you before, though with apologies I can't remember the answer - Hunt? If I'm right, is it still the case?)
Thanks and until recently I would indeed have said Hunt, but now fairly certain he can't win. No conspicuous favourite. The Saj would probably be my current first choice but I could easily 'live with' Sunak, Tugenhat or Wallace.
Truss is a definite no (not up to the job) as is Braveman.
Thanks. My view is that there is a wider range of liveable-with candidates than there has been for some time. This (combined with the Lab and LD parties looking increasingly grown-up compared to 2019) gives cause for some hope for the future of politics.
If the Tories go for Sunak, it would make Britain the first significant western country to have an Asian as leader
That’s not a small thing. It is also a good thing. It shows that Britain really is inclusive, and you can go places, whoever you are. That’s a great signal to send out
Also, it shoots a load of Labour foxes. It will be much harder for Starmer, facing Sunak
I am tending Sunak’s way, I just wish he was 5 inches taller
Who would be the first European leader of an Asian nation? Does it really matter.
Obama was the first non white leader of the USA but then the USA is a nation mainly composed of immigrants unlike Europe
Yes, it matters. And it’s good for Britain’s soft power for us to be seen as a welcoming, non-racist, inclusive and tolerant country: for the very good reason that we REALLY ARE all these things, certainly by the standards of 98% of the countries in the world
This Woke discourse that Britain is some hot bed of hateful racism really fucks my noodles. We are NOT racist. Not by the standards of history, not by the standards of our peers. We are imperfect. Oh yes we are imperfect. But we are not this Nazi toilet that the Guardian CONSTANTLY tries to portray
And because that narrative has penetrated progressive opinion on the continent and in the US, having Sunak as PM would confound a lot of people.
Personally I don't give a flying flint dildo what progressive opinion on the continent or in the US thinks. I can't imagine a worse reason for electing someone than to get into their good graces.
We have had Sunak occupying the second most powerful office in the land. He wasn't good enough.
Tsk. It’s not to “get into their good graces” it’s about promoting Brand Britain
You and I were both Leavers, right? Yet I will admit our image took a big knock after Brexit. What had been seen as a modern, welcoming, quite dynamic country suddenly looked crabbed and inward. This is not good
So we have to go out and sell ourselves. Not least, because we are in the international marketplace competing for the best human talent out there. We want them to come to London, and to Britain. Because Britain still is that welcoming, inclusive, dynamic place - which it is
An Indian leader would help with that. Just as having a female prime minister made the world think differently about Thatcher’s Britain
Sunak is also highly qualified for the job: smart, educated, personable, numerate
If the Tories go for Sunak, it would make Britain the first significant western country to have an Asian as leader
That’s not a small thing. It is also a good thing. It shows that Britain really is inclusive, and you can go places, whoever you are. That’s a great signal to send out
Also, it shoots a load of Labour foxes. It will be much harder for Starmer, facing Sunak
I am tending Sunak’s way, I just wish he was 5 inches taller
Who would be the first European leader of an Asian nation? Does it really matter.
Obama was the first non white leader of the USA but then the USA is a nation mainly composed of immigrants unlike Europe
Got news for you. Europeans are *all* immigrants.
Unless you mean born there. But that doesn't make sense against your US stat.
No they aren't, most Europeans have had European ancestry for at least 1,000 years. As most Asians have had Asian ancestry for at least 1000 years.
Most US citizens however have European or African or Latin American or Asian ancestry within the last 200 years. The only non immigrant Americans are the native American Indians
Oh? So most US citizens's lines suddenly pop iunto existence 200 years ago? Huge if true.
Plus you didn't say anything about timing.
I've got even more news for ytou. This chap Mr Darwin wrote some interesting books a centiry or two ago. His successors have shown that all non-African humans are immigrants from Africa.
So what that doesn't change the fact most citizens of the nation of the USA are descended from immigrants and most citizens of European and Asian and African nations are not. Those nations being created centuries after humans moved out of Africa
This is so fantastically stupid.
You are conflating “nations” with “race” and “genetics” and basic fucking facts that all humans eminate from one “tree” out of Africa.
All citizens of the US by virtue of being Native American or of European or Chinese ancestry are still - weirdly - humans who all came from the same origin as people in Europe or Africa or Asia.
Tell me a place in Europe that is not a result of immigration.
No European nation has a majority of its population whose ancestors were not part of that nation when it was created I believe, whether the UK (or its individual home nations), France, Germany or Spain or Italy or Russia etc. Most Americans however are descended from immigrants who arrived after the USA was created in 1776
Former equalities minister Kemi Badenoch, who resigned from government two days ago, has announced she will be joining the running to be Boris Johnson’s successor.
She told the Times she would radically cut the size of the state and provide a “limited government focused on essentials”.
I wonder where that would leave the Red Wall and the Levelling Up agenda?
It’s already dead so…deader than dead?
What’s the opposite of triangulation? Because that’s what it seems the Tory party is at risk of doing. Thatcherite small state orthodoxy to piss off the red wall, and enough Brexity faux-populism to keep the noses of the blue wall turned up.
I wonder just like to clarify to @HYUFD and others that because I would be very pleased for Rishi to gain the crown I am content for Wallace, Tugendhat and Mordaunt to win through as well
I just do not think Wallace is going to stand but could be wrong
However, if he backed Rishi that would be a huge moment
I'm just trying to look for trading bets. Absolutely no idea how this will play out. Doesn't help that we don't know the rules. But right now Braverman looks value to trade. Wallace to declare or not? That is the question. Throws it all in the air.
My instinct tells me that Wallace won't run, and he's currently negotiating the size of the MoD budget with the leading contenders.
He will run, if he was not going to he would already have ruled himself out like Raab, Gove, Baker and Hancock
He can sell his support to another candidate for a higher price if he hasn't already ruled himself out.
@btaylor The Twitter Board is committed to closing the transaction on the price and terms agreed upon with Mr. Musk and plans to pursue legal action to enforce the merger agreement. We are confident we will prevail in the Delaware Court of Chancery.
So, wait, Musk has backed off and now Twitter is desperate to be taken over by him? Is that it?
Twitter has massive issues (spam, bots, no idea who their users are, difficult to monetarise them, TikTok is now the cool social media, pain in the arse activist workforce) and the current owners are going to get a massive payout (and the share price has gone through the floor since Elon said he was going to buy it).
Hilarious
I have also noticed that Twitter is now going much easier on its rightwing users, you can see the difference Musk made just by *threatening* to take over
I'm just trying to look for trading bets. Absolutely no idea how this will play out. Doesn't help that we don't know the rules. But right now Braverman looks value to trade. Wallace to declare or not? That is the question. Throws it all in the air.
My instinct tells me that Wallace won't run, and he's currently negotiating the size of the MoD budget with the leading contenders.
He will run, if he was not going to he would already have ruled himself out like Raab, Gove, Baker and Hancock
You do not know that yet though I believe it is likely
I'm just trying to look for trading bets. Absolutely no idea how this will play out. Doesn't help that we don't know the rules. But right now Braverman looks value to trade. Wallace to declare or not? That is the question. Throws it all in the air.
My instinct tells me that Wallace won't run, and he's currently negotiating the size of the MoD budget with the leading contenders.
He will run, if he was not going to he would already have ruled himself out like Raab, Gove, Baker and Hancock
Or: he will not run, if he was going to he would already have ruled himself in like Sunak, Braverman, Tugendhat, Truss and Mordaunt
"Close allies of Johnson said there was “huge anger” in Downing Street over Sunak’s resignation. One senior Number 10 official called Sunak “a treacherous bastard”. Sunak launched his candidacy to become Tory leader on Friday, with a video in which he pledged to end “comforting fairy tales” — a coded attack on Johnson’s time as prime minister. One government official close to Johnson said Sunak did not inform the prime minister of his intention to quit, although another Whitehall insider said Sunak “tried to call the prime minister but he didn’t answer”.
I wonder just like to clarify to @HYUFD and others that because I would be very pleased for Rishi to gain the crown I am content for Wallace, Tugendhat and Mordaunt to win through as well
I just do not think Wallace is going to stand but could be wrong
However, if he backed Rishi that would be a huge moment
Gain the crown? Someone warn Her Majesty, BigG has turned rebel!
If the Tories go for Sunak, it would make Britain the first significant western country to have an Asian as leader
That’s not a small thing. It is also a good thing. It shows that Britain really is inclusive, and you can go places, whoever you are. That’s a great signal to send out
Also, it shoots a load of Labour foxes. It will be much harder for Starmer, facing Sunak
I am tending Sunak’s way, I just wish he was 5 inches taller
Who would be the first European leader of an Asian nation? Does it really matter.
Obama was the first non white leader of the USA but then the USA is a nation mainly composed of immigrants unlike Europe
Yes, it matters. And it’s good for Britain’s soft power for us to be seen as a welcoming, non-racist, inclusive and tolerant country: for the very good reason that we REALLY ARE all these things, certainly by the standards of 98% of the countries in the world
This Woke discourse that Britain is some hot bed of hateful racism really fucks my noodles. We are NOT racist. Not by the standards of history, not by the standards of our peers. We are imperfect. Oh yes we are imperfect. But we are not this Nazi toilet that the Guardian CONSTANTLY tries to portray
And because that narrative has penetrated progressive opinion on the continent and in the US, having Sunak as PM would confound a lot of people.
The problem you have to contend with is that Sunak has been around for a while, along with Patel and many other senior conservative politicians and it has no effect on the "woke" discourse, which went in to overdrive after 2019. Making one of them PM won't change much.
If the Tories go for Sunak, it would make Britain the first significant western country to have an Asian as leader
That’s not a small thing. It is also a good thing. It shows that Britain really is inclusive, and you can go places, whoever you are. That’s a great signal to send out
Also, it shoots a load of Labour foxes. It will be much harder for Starmer, facing Sunak
I am tending Sunak’s way, I just wish he was 5 inches taller
Who would be the first European leader of an Asian nation? Does it really matter.
Obama was the first non white leader of the USA but then the USA is a nation mainly composed of immigrants unlike Europe
Got news for you. Europeans are *all* immigrants.
Unless you mean born there. But that doesn't make sense against your US stat.
No they aren't, most Europeans have had European ancestry for at least 1,000 years. As most Asians have had Asian ancestry for at least 1000 years.
Most US citizens however have European or African or Latin American or Asian ancestry within the last 200 years. The only non immigrant Americans are the native American Indians
Oh? So most US citizens's lines suddenly pop iunto existence 200 years ago? Huge if true.
Plus you didn't say anything about timing.
I've got even more news for ytou. This chap Mr Darwin wrote some interesting books a centiry or two ago. His successors have shown that all non-African humans are immigrants from Africa.
So what that doesn't change the fact most citizens of the nation of the USA are descended from immigrants and most citizens of European and Asian and African nations are not. Those nations being created centuries after humans moved out of Africa
This is so fantastically stupid.
You are conflating “nations” with “race” and “genetics” and basic fucking facts that all humans eminate from one “tree” out of Africa.
All citizens of the US by virtue of being Native American or of European or Chinese ancestry are still - weirdly - humans who all came from the same origin as people in Europe or Africa or Asia.
Tell me a place in Europe that is not a result of immigration.
No European nation has a majority of its population whose ancestors were not part of that nation when it was created I believe, whether the UK (or its individual home nations), France, Germany or Spain or Italy or Russia etc. Most Americans however are descended from immigrants who arrived after the USA was created in 1776
When was Wales "created"? What about Greece? Or Germany?
I wonder just like to clarify to @HYUFD and others that because I would be very pleased for Rishi to gain the crown I am content for Wallace, Tugendhat and Mordaunt to win through as well
I just do not think Wallace is going to stand but could be wrong
However, if he backed Rishi that would be a huge moment
Gain the crown? Someone warn Her Majesty, BigG has turned rebel!
If the Tories go for Sunak, it would make Britain the first significant western country to have an Asian as leader
That’s not a small thing. It is also a good thing. It shows that Britain really is inclusive, and you can go places, whoever you are. That’s a great signal to send out
Also, it shoots a load of Labour foxes. It will be much harder for Starmer, facing Sunak
I am tending Sunak’s way, I just wish he was 5 inches taller
Who would be the first European leader of an Asian nation? Does it really matter.
Obama was the first non white leader of the USA but then the USA is a nation mainly composed of immigrants unlike Europe
Yes, it matters. And it’s good for Britain’s soft power for us to be seen as a welcoming, non-racist, inclusive and tolerant country: for the very good reason that we REALLY ARE all these things, certainly by the standards of 98% of the countries in the world
This Woke discourse that Britain is some hot bed of hateful racism really fucks my noodles. We are NOT racist. Not by the standards of history, not by the standards of our peers. We are imperfect. Oh yes we are imperfect. But we are not this Nazi toilet that the Guardian CONSTANTLY tries to portray
And because that narrative has penetrated progressive opinion on the continent and in the US, having Sunak as PM would confound a lot of people.
The problem you have to contend with is that Sunak has been around for a while, along with Patel and many other senior conservative politicians and it has no effect on the "woke" discourse, which went in to overdrive after 2019. Making one of them PM won't change much.
There's a big difference between being a minister under someone seen as the devil incarnate where you can be dismissed as a token stooge and being the face of the country.
@btaylor The Twitter Board is committed to closing the transaction on the price and terms agreed upon with Mr. Musk and plans to pursue legal action to enforce the merger agreement. We are confident we will prevail in the Delaware Court of Chancery.
So, wait, Musk has backed off and now Twitter is desperate to be taken over by him? Is that it?
Twitter has massive issues (spam, bots, no idea who their users are, difficult to monetarise them, TikTok is now the cool social media, pain in the arse activist workforce) and the current owners are going to get a massive payout (and the share price has gone through the floor since Elon said he was going to buy it).
Hilarious
I have also noticed that Twitter is now going much easier on its rightwing users, you can see the difference Musk made just by *threatening* to take over
I don't care what happens as long as Trump is kept away.
O/T Today is the coolest hot day I can remember. It must be something to do with dry heat versus humid heat.
That and a cool start and slow warming. Late peak around 5pm. Lovely.
This dry heat is great. And looks like staying next week. Dew points at or around 10C most days, occasionally descending to lip-cracking sub-5C levels.
Former equalities minister Kemi Badenoch, who resigned from government two days ago, has announced she will be joining the running to be Boris Johnson’s successor.
She told the Times she would radically cut the size of the state and provide a “limited government focused on essentials”.
I wonder where that would leave the Red Wall and the Levelling Up agenda?
If the Tories go for Sunak, it would make Britain the first significant western country to have an Asian as leader
That’s not a small thing. It is also a good thing. It shows that Britain really is inclusive, and you can go places, whoever you are. That’s a great signal to send out
Also, it shoots a load of Labour foxes. It will be much harder for Starmer, facing Sunak
I am tending Sunak’s way, I just wish he was 5 inches taller
Who would be the first European leader of an Asian nation? Does it really matter.
Obama was the first non white leader of the USA but then the USA is a nation mainly composed of immigrants unlike Europe
Yes, it matters. And it’s good for Britain’s soft power for us to be seen as a welcoming, non-racist, inclusive and tolerant country: for the very good reason that we REALLY ARE all these things, certainly by the standards of 98% of the countries in the world
This Woke discourse that Britain is some hot bed of hateful racism really fucks my noodles. We are NOT racist. Not by the standards of history, not by the standards of our peers. We are imperfect. Oh yes we are imperfect. But we are not this Nazi toilet that the Guardian CONSTANTLY tries to portray
And because that narrative has penetrated progressive opinion on the continent and in the US, having Sunak as PM would confound a lot of people.
Personally I don't give a flying flint dildo what progressive opinion on the continent or in the US thinks. I can't imagine a worse reason for electing someone than to get into their good graces.
We have had Sunak occupying the second most powerful office in the land. He wasn't good enough.
Tsk. It’s not to “get into their good graces” it’s about promoting Brand Britain
You and I were both Leavers, right? Yet I will admit our image took a big knock after Brexit. What had been seen as a modern, welcoming, quite dynamic country suddenly looked crabbed and inward. This is not good
So we have to go out and sell ourselves. Not least, because we are in the international marketplace competing for the best human talent out there. We want them to come to London, and to Britain. Because Britain still is that welcoming, inclusive, dynamic place - which it is
An Indian leader would help with that. Just as having a female prime minister made the world think differently about Thatcher’s Britain
Sunak is also highly qualified for the job: smart, educated, personable, numerate
He’s not ideal but he’s a pretty good choice
I like Sunak's background and presentational abilities - I even argued that his personal wealth was a plus. But what I cannot forgive is the tumbleweed where his dynamic plan for the economy should have been. He is an empty suit.
Penny might be an empty swimsuit. I don't know. But I KNOW Sunak's deficiencies.
Regarding Rishi's ability to turn the UK's image around, how many tourists actually come because we're 'Cool Britannia' and how many come because of Harry Potter, Agatha Christie, the Royals, Downton etc.? Deeds are better than words. A PM who is actually making us prosperous and free beats someone who looks good shaking hands with Justin Trudeau (whilst standing on a hassock).
If the Tories go for Sunak, it would make Britain the first significant western country to have an Asian as leader
That’s not a small thing. It is also a good thing. It shows that Britain really is inclusive, and you can go places, whoever you are. That’s a great signal to send out
Also, it shoots a load of Labour foxes. It will be much harder for Starmer, facing Sunak
I am tending Sunak’s way, I just wish he was 5 inches taller
Who would be the first European leader of an Asian nation? Does it really matter.
Obama was the first non white leader of the USA but then the USA is a nation mainly composed of immigrants unlike Europe
Got news for you. Europeans are *all* immigrants.
Unless you mean born there. But that doesn't make sense against your US stat.
No they aren't, most Europeans have had European ancestry for at least 1,000 years. As most Asians have had Asian ancestry for at least 1000 years.
Most US citizens however have European or African or Latin American or Asian ancestry within the last 200 years. The only non immigrant Americans are the native American Indians
Oh? So most US citizens's lines suddenly pop iunto existence 200 years ago? Huge if true.
Plus you didn't say anything about timing.
I've got even more news for ytou. This chap Mr Darwin wrote some interesting books a centiry or two ago. His successors have shown that all non-African humans are immigrants from Africa.
So what that doesn't change the fact most citizens of the nation of the USA are descended from immigrants and most citizens of European and Asian and African nations are not. Those nations being created centuries after humans moved out of Africa
This is so fantastically stupid.
You are conflating “nations” with “race” and “genetics” and basic fucking facts that all humans eminate from one “tree” out of Africa.
All citizens of the US by virtue of being Native American or of European or Chinese ancestry are still - weirdly - humans who all came from the same origin as people in Europe or Africa or Asia.
Tell me a place in Europe that is not a result of immigration.
No European nation has a majority of its population whose ancestors were not part of that nation when it was created I believe, whether the UK (or its individual home nations), France, Germany or Spain or Italy or Russia etc. Most Americans however are descended from immigrants who arrived after the USA was created in 1776
When was Wales "created"? What about Greece? Or Germany?
Most Welsh have Celtic Welsh ancestry, most Greeks have Greek ancestry, certainly since Greek independence in 1830, most Germans have German ancestry since it was united in 1871
@btaylor The Twitter Board is committed to closing the transaction on the price and terms agreed upon with Mr. Musk and plans to pursue legal action to enforce the merger agreement. We are confident we will prevail in the Delaware Court of Chancery.
So, wait, Musk has backed off and now Twitter is desperate to be taken over by him? Is that it?
Twitter has massive issues (spam, bots, no idea who their users are, difficult to monetarise them, TikTok is now the cool social media, pain in the arse activist workforce) and the current owners are going to get a massive payout (and the share price has gone through the floor since Elon said he was going to buy it).
Hilarious
I have also noticed that Twitter is now going much easier on its rightwing users, you can see the difference Musk made just by *threatening* to take over
If the Tories go for Sunak, it would make Britain the first significant western country to have an Asian as leader
That’s not a small thing. It is also a good thing. It shows that Britain really is inclusive, and you can go places, whoever you are. That’s a great signal to send out
Also, it shoots a load of Labour foxes. It will be much harder for Starmer, facing Sunak
I am tending Sunak’s way, I just wish he was 5 inches taller
Who would be the first European leader of an Asian nation? Does it really matter.
Obama was the first non white leader of the USA but then the USA is a nation mainly composed of immigrants unlike Europe
Got news for you. Europeans are *all* immigrants.
Unless you mean born there. But that doesn't make sense against your US stat.
No they aren't, most Europeans have had European ancestry for at least 1,000 years. As most Asians have had Asian ancestry for at least 1000 years.
Most US citizens however have European or African or Latin American or Asian ancestry within the last 200 years. The only non immigrant Americans are the native American Indians
Oh? So most US citizens's lines suddenly pop iunto existence 200 years ago? Huge if true.
Plus you didn't say anything about timing.
I've got even more news for ytou. This chap Mr Darwin wrote some interesting books a centiry or two ago. His successors have shown that all non-African humans are immigrants from Africa.
So what that doesn't change the fact most citizens of the nation of the USA are descended from immigrants and most citizens of European and Asian and African nations are not. Those nations being created centuries after humans moved out of Africa
This is so fantastically stupid.
You are conflating “nations” with “race” and “genetics” and basic fucking facts that all humans eminate from one “tree” out of Africa.
All citizens of the US by virtue of being Native American or of European or Chinese ancestry are still - weirdly - humans who all came from the same origin as people in Europe or Africa or Asia.
Tell me a place in Europe that is not a result of immigration.
No European nation has a majority of its population whose ancestors were not part of that nation when it was created I believe, whether the UK (or its individual home nations), France, Germany or Spain or Italy or Russia etc. Most Americans however are descended from immigrants who arrived after the USA was created in 1776
When was Wales "created"? What about Greece? Or Germany?
Most Welsh have Celtic Welsh ancestry, most Greeks have Greek ancestry, certainly since Greek independence in 1830, most Germans have German ancestry since it was united in 1871
So you don't know what Wales was "created". And you think Greece was "created" in 1830. And you don't think everyone in Wales has Saxon ancestry.
I'm just trying to look for trading bets. Absolutely no idea how this will play out. Doesn't help that we don't know the rules. But right now Braverman looks value to trade. Wallace to declare or not? That is the question. Throws it all in the air.
My instinct tells me that Wallace won't run, and he's currently negotiating the size of the MoD budget with the leading contenders.
He will run, if he was not going to he would already have ruled himself out like Raab, Gove, Baker and Hancock
I really hope it does end up as Sunak v Truss. My head wants Sunak, for entirely disinterested reasons, while my heart wants Truss.
Off topic and NSFW-ish but funny, ask Alexa to translate "Boris Johnson carrot coffee bean 100" into Welsh
Welsh accent responds with what sounds very clearly to be "Boris Johnson moron fuck off ye c*nt"
Yep. The predecessor of the fabulous Super Furry Animals was a band called Ffa Coffi Pawb. It means "All the Coffee Beans". In theory. If you say "ffa coffi pawb" to anyone Welsh they'll take it as "f*ck off everyone".
(One of my all-time favourite bands is a Welsh outfit called Bob Delyn. "All the Harps". Obviously.)
"Close allies of Johnson said there was “huge anger” in Downing Street over Sunak’s resignation. One senior Number 10 official called Sunak “a treacherous bastard”. Sunak launched his candidacy to become Tory leader on Friday, with a video in which he pledged to end “comforting fairy tales” — a coded attack on Johnson’s time as prime minister. One government official close to Johnson said Sunak did not inform the prime minister of his intention to quit, although another Whitehall insider said Sunak “tried to call the prime minister but he didn’t answer”.
I’m not sure Boris matters that much, right now. He does not have an ideology, and he therefore does not have a tribe that follows the ideology (unlike Thatcher)
And for his people to accuse others of disloyalty when he demanded, for years, that ministers lie painfully on his behalf with scant return from him, is quite rich
I like Boris. But he needs to butt out of this campaign
Of course, he might get that, and this is just his aides venting their angst
If the Tories go for Sunak, it would make Britain the first significant western country to have an Asian as leader
That’s not a small thing. It is also a good thing. It shows that Britain really is inclusive, and you can go places, whoever you are. That’s a great signal to send out
Also, it shoots a load of Labour foxes. It will be much harder for Starmer, facing Sunak
I am tending Sunak’s way, I just wish he was 5 inches taller
Who would be the first European leader of an Asian nation? Does it really matter.
Obama was the first non white leader of the USA but then the USA is a nation mainly composed of immigrants unlike Europe
Yes, it matters. And it’s good for Britain’s soft power for us to be seen as a welcoming, non-racist, inclusive and tolerant country: for the very good reason that we REALLY ARE all these things, certainly by the standards of 98% of the countries in the world
This Woke discourse that Britain is some hot bed of hateful racism really fucks my noodles. We are NOT racist. Not by the standards of history, not by the standards of our peers. We are imperfect. Oh yes we are imperfect. But we are not this Nazi toilet that the Guardian CONSTANTLY tries to portray
And because that narrative has penetrated progressive opinion on the continent and in the US, having Sunak as PM would confound a lot of people.
The problem you have to contend with is that Sunak has been around for a while, along with Patel and many other senior conservative politicians and it has no effect on the "woke" discourse, which went in to overdrive after 2019. Making one of them PM won't change much.
There's a big difference between being a minister under someone seen as the devil incarnate where you can be dismissed as a token stooge and being the face of the country.
I am reluctant to point it out, but Obama is the counter example here. The 'woke' stuff was gathering momentum throughout the time he was President.
"Close allies of Johnson said there was “huge anger” in Downing Street over Sunak’s resignation. One senior Number 10 official called Sunak “a treacherous bastard”. Sunak launched his candidacy to become Tory leader on Friday, with a video in which he pledged to end “comforting fairy tales” — a coded attack on Johnson’s time as prime minister. One government official close to Johnson said Sunak did not inform the prime minister of his intention to quit, although another Whitehall insider said Sunak “tried to call the prime minister but he didn’t answer”.
I’m not sure Boris matters that much, right now. He does not have an ideology, and he therefore does not have a tribe that follows the ideology (unlike Thatcher)
And for his people to accuse others of disloyalty when he demanded, for years, that ministers lie painfully on his behalf with scant return from him, is quite rich
I like Boris. But he needs to butt out of this campaign
Of course, he might get that, and this is just his aides venting their angst
Boris will now use Machiavelli style tactics in the MPs ballots I believe via his supporters to knock Sunak out before the members stage in revenge for his treachery
I'm just trying to look for trading bets. Absolutely no idea how this will play out. Doesn't help that we don't know the rules. But right now Braverman looks value to trade. Wallace to declare or not? That is the question. Throws it all in the air.
My instinct tells me that Wallace won't run, and he's currently negotiating the size of the MoD budget with the leading contenders.
He will run, if he was not going to he would already have ruled himself out like Raab, Gove, Baker and Hancock
If the Tories go for Sunak, it would make Britain the first significant western country to have an Asian as leader
That’s not a small thing. It is also a good thing. It shows that Britain really is inclusive, and you can go places, whoever you are. That’s a great signal to send out
Also, it shoots a load of Labour foxes. It will be much harder for Starmer, facing Sunak
I am tending Sunak’s way, I just wish he was 5 inches taller
Who would be the first European leader of an Asian nation? Does it really matter.
Obama was the first non white leader of the USA but then the USA is a nation mainly composed of immigrants unlike Europe
Got news for you. Europeans are *all* immigrants.
Unless you mean born there. But that doesn't make sense against your US stat.
No they aren't, most Europeans have had European ancestry for at least 1,000 years. As most Asians have had Asian ancestry for at least 1000 years.
Most US citizens however have European or African or Latin American or Asian ancestry within the last 200 years. The only non immigrant Americans are the native American Indians
Oh? So most US citizens's lines suddenly pop iunto existence 200 years ago? Huge if true.
Plus you didn't say anything about timing.
I've got even more news for ytou. This chap Mr Darwin wrote some interesting books a centiry or two ago. His successors have shown that all non-African humans are immigrants from Africa.
So what that doesn't change the fact most citizens of the nation of the USA are descended from immigrants and most citizens of European and Asian and African nations are not. Those nations being created centuries after humans moved out of Africa
This is so fantastically stupid.
You are conflating “nations” with “race” and “genetics” and basic fucking facts that all humans eminate from one “tree” out of Africa.
All citizens of the US by virtue of being Native American or of European or Chinese ancestry are still - weirdly - humans who all came from the same origin as people in Europe or Africa or Asia.
Tell me a place in Europe that is not a result of immigration.
No European nation has a majority of its population whose ancestors were not part of that nation when it was created I believe, whether the UK (or its individual home nations), France, Germany or Spain or Italy or Russia etc. Most Americans however are descended from immigrants who arrived after the USA was created in 1776
When was Wales "created"? What about Greece? Or Germany?
Most Welsh have Celtic Welsh ancestry, most Greeks have Greek ancestry, certainly since Greek independence in 1830, most Germans have German ancestry since it was united in 1871
So you don't know what Wales was "created". And you think Greece was "created" in 1830. And you don't think everyone in Wales has Saxon ancestry.
Why do you do this to yourself?
Greece was created in 1830, before that it was part of the Ottoman Empire, though most Greeks can likely trace their ancestry to Sparta or Athens too. Wales was united in the 11th century and most Welsh could certainly trace their ancestry from then.
Should I be concerned that Sunak as PM doesn’t annoy me that much . Perhaps after Johnson the relief is so much that it’s effecting my judgement !
I find him a very good speaker and quite an affable character . I think he will shore up those Blue Wall southern seats . The concerns around those ex Labour Red Wall seats is overblown .
The Tories only need to keep a handful and keep their Blue Wall and they have a decent majority .
It would also be quite a thing to have the first Asian heritage PM .
As a Labour supporter I of course hope the Tories are trounced at the next GE but I can see his appeal .
I'm just trying to look for trading bets. Absolutely no idea how this will play out. Doesn't help that we don't know the rules. But right now Braverman looks value to trade. Wallace to declare or not? That is the question. Throws it all in the air.
My instinct tells me that Wallace won't run, and he's currently negotiating the size of the MoD budget with the leading contenders.
He will run, if he was not going to he would already have ruled himself out like Raab, Gove, Baker and Hancock
I think he will do a deal. FO sec.
If Wallace is the Boris candidate, will he do a deal with Sunak?
I'm just trying to look for trading bets. Absolutely no idea how this will play out. Doesn't help that we don't know the rules. But right now Braverman looks value to trade. Wallace to declare or not? That is the question. Throws it all in the air.
My instinct tells me that Wallace won't run, and he's currently negotiating the size of the MoD budget with the leading contenders.
This ^ is the correct answer.
He’s a military man through and through. I don’t think he wants the job, also.
"Close allies of Johnson said there was “huge anger” in Downing Street over Sunak’s resignation. One senior Number 10 official called Sunak “a treacherous bastard”. Sunak launched his candidacy to become Tory leader on Friday, with a video in which he pledged to end “comforting fairy tales” — a coded attack on Johnson’s time as prime minister. One government official close to Johnson said Sunak did not inform the prime minister of his intention to quit, although another Whitehall insider said Sunak “tried to call the prime minister but he didn’t answer”.
I’m not sure Boris matters that much, right now. He does not have an ideology, and he therefore does not have a tribe that follows the ideology (unlike Thatcher)
And for his people to accuse others of disloyalty when he demanded, for years, that ministers lie painfully on his behalf with scant return from him, is quite rich
I like Boris. But he needs to butt out of this campaign
Of course, he might get that, and this is just his aides venting their angst
Boris will now use Machiavelli style tactics in the MPs ballots I believe via his supporters to knock Sunak out before the members stage in revenge for his treachery
Does Boris care that much?
I don’t think he does. He’s not a man who enjoys politicking as a blood sport
But i could be wrong. We shall see. It is past midnight on Kotor Bay. Goodnight all
"Close allies of Johnson said there was “huge anger” in Downing Street over Sunak’s resignation. One senior Number 10 official called Sunak “a treacherous bastard”. Sunak launched his candidacy to become Tory leader on Friday, with a video in which he pledged to end “comforting fairy tales” — a coded attack on Johnson’s time as prime minister. One government official close to Johnson said Sunak did not inform the prime minister of his intention to quit, although another Whitehall insider said Sunak “tried to call the prime minister but he didn’t answer”.
I’m not sure Boris matters that much, right now. He does not have an ideology, and he therefore does not have a tribe that follows the ideology (unlike Thatcher)
And for his people to accuse others of disloyalty when he demanded, for years, that ministers lie painfully on his behalf with scant return from him, is quite rich
I like Boris. But he needs to butt out of this campaign
Of course, he might get that, and this is just his aides venting their angst
Boris will now use Machiavelli style tactics in the MPs ballots I believe via his supporters to knock Sunak out before the members stage in revenge for his treachery
@btaylor The Twitter Board is committed to closing the transaction on the price and terms agreed upon with Mr. Musk and plans to pursue legal action to enforce the merger agreement. We are confident we will prevail in the Delaware Court of Chancery.
So, wait, Musk has backed off and now Twitter is desperate to be taken over by him? Is that it?
Twitter has massive issues (spam, bots, no idea who their users are, difficult to monetarise them, TikTok is now the cool social media, pain in the arse activist workforce) and the current owners are going to get a massive payout (and the share price has gone through the floor since Elon said he was going to buy it).
Hilarious
I have also noticed that Twitter is now going much easier on its rightwing users, you can see the difference Musk made just by *threatening* to take over
Also they're keeping the servers running but not trying to introduce new features, which is pretty great.
There's been a significant shortening of Sunak's price. And he and Javid are clearly working in unison. Maybe Javid isn’t even standing and will lead team Sunak’s campaign - with a view to reclaiming his old job at the Treasury? Sajid’s price has drifted considerably.
Wallace has also drifted and may not even run?? He is well regarded and has done well at Defence in an extraordinary time for that position. But he hasn’t held any of the 4 major offices of state.
Mourdant has also drifted and could be too “woke” for the electorate. Tug, having been the big mover yesterday has drifted back a bit. He has never held a senior cabinet position, so he seems to be a leap too far, in my view. And I can’t see why he is admired so much. Seems a bit IDS to me.
Hunt is very slow out of the traps and is a clear Remainer, which is a big problem with the membership. Zahawi is another with support yesterday who is now drifting. Plus being Chancellor for only a few days surely doesn’t give him the required credentials?
Truss is shortening in the betting and I think and hope will overhaul Penny as the preferred female.
I think it may be Sunak v Truss.
I've backed Truss at approx 11.5.
It has been suggested Ben Wallace's big ambition is Nato rather than Number 10 (see eg Andrew Neill on Spectator TV, speaking before Boris announced his resignation aiui).
At the moment, punters (and pundits) have limited information but Sunak is definitely standing and has the most declared supporters: 15 according to Wikipedia. But it is early days: there are 360-ish Conservative MPs so probably you'd need, after the others have been eliminated, over 100 votes to get into the final two. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Conservative_Party_leadership_election_(UK)#Endorsements
I think this is v v clever from his team - any wanky bollocks pie in the sky shite that the other mad candidates come up with can be dismissed as fairy land.
There's been a significant shortening of Sunak's price. And he and Javid are clearly working in unison. Maybe Javid isn’t even standing and will lead team Sunak’s campaign - with a view to reclaiming his old job at the Treasury? Sajid’s price has drifted considerably.
Wallace has also drifted and may not even run?? He is well regarded and has done well at Defence in an extraordinary time for that position. But he hasn’t held any of the 4 major offices of state.
Mourdant has also drifted and could be too “woke” for the electorate. Tug, having been the big mover yesterday has drifted back a bit. He has never held a senior cabinet position, so he seems to be a leap too far, in my view. And I can’t see why he is admired so much. Seems a bit IDS to me.
Hunt is very slow out of the traps and is a clear Remainer, which is a big problem with the membership. Zahawi is another with support yesterday who is now drifting. Plus being Chancellor for only a few days surely doesn’t give him the required credentials?
Truss is shortening in the betting and I think and hope will overhaul Penny as the preferred female.
I think it may be Sunak v Truss.
I've backed Truss at approx 11.5.
It has been suggested Ben Wallace's big ambition is Nato rather than Number 10 (see eg Andrew Neill on Spectator TV, speaking before Boris announced his resignation aiui).
At the moment, punters (and pundits) have limited information but Sunak is definitely standing and has the most declared supporters: 15 according to Wikipedia. But it is early days: there are 360-ish Conservative MPs so probably you'd need, after the others have been eliminated, over 100 votes to get into the final two. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Conservative_Party_leadership_election_(UK)#Endorsements
The Guardian tonight puts his support at 80 - 100 mps
There's been a significant shortening of Sunak's price. And he and Javid are clearly working in unison. Maybe Javid isn’t even standing and will lead team Sunak’s campaign - with a view to reclaiming his old job at the Treasury? Sajid’s price has drifted considerably.
Wallace has also drifted and may not even run?? He is well regarded and has done well at Defence in an extraordinary time for that position. But he hasn’t held any of the 4 major offices of state.
Mourdant has also drifted and could be too “woke” for the electorate. Tug, having been the big mover yesterday has drifted back a bit. He has never held a senior cabinet position, so he seems to be a leap too far, in my view. And I can’t see why he is admired so much. Seems a bit IDS to me.
Hunt is very slow out of the traps and is a clear Remainer, which is a big problem with the membership. Zahawi is another with support yesterday who is now drifting. Plus being Chancellor for only a few days surely doesn’t give him the required credentials?
Truss is shortening in the betting and I think and hope will overhaul Penny as the preferred female.
I think it may be Sunak v Truss.
I've backed Truss at approx 11.5.
It has been suggested Ben Wallace's big ambition is Nato rather than Number 10 (see eg Andrew Neill on Spectator TV, speaking before Boris announced his resignation aiui).
At the moment, punters (and pundits) have limited information but Sunak is definitely standing and has the most declared supporters: 15 according to Wikipedia. But it is early days: there are 360-ish Conservative MPs so probably you'd need, after the others have been eliminated, over 100 votes to get into the final two. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Conservative_Party_leadership_election_(UK)#Endorsements
The Guardian tonight puts his support at 80 - 100 mps
My feeling is Wallace is sensible and he knows he is not PM material (perhaps he doesnt want the shit or he realises it is one small step beyond him) - he reminds me of Alan Johnson. He will settle for FO under Sunak and perhaps Deputy???
If the Tories go for Sunak, it would make Britain the first significant western country to have an Asian as leader
That’s not a small thing. It is also a good thing. It shows that Britain really is inclusive, and you can go places, whoever you are. That’s a great signal to send out
Also, it shoots a load of Labour foxes. It will be much harder for Starmer, facing Sunak
I am tending Sunak’s way, I just wish he was 5 inches taller
Who would be the first European leader of an Asian nation? Does it really matter.
Obama was the first non white leader of the USA but then the USA is a nation mainly composed of immigrants unlike Europe
Got news for you. Europeans are *all* immigrants.
Unless you mean born there. But that doesn't make sense against your US stat.
No they aren't, most Europeans have had European ancestry for at least 1,000 years. As most Asians have had Asian ancestry for at least 1000 years.
Most US citizens however have European or African or Latin American or Asian ancestry within the last 200 years. The only non immigrant Americans are the native American Indians
Oh? So most US citizens's lines suddenly pop iunto existence 200 years ago? Huge if true.
Plus you didn't say anything about timing.
I've got even more news for ytou. This chap Mr Darwin wrote some interesting books a centiry or two ago. His successors have shown that all non-African humans are immigrants from Africa.
So what that doesn't change the fact most citizens of the nation of the USA are descended from immigrants and most citizens of European and Asian and African nations are not. Those nations being created centuries after humans moved out of Africa
This is so fantastically stupid.
You are conflating “nations” with “race” and “genetics” and basic fucking facts that all humans eminate from one “tree” out of Africa.
All citizens of the US by virtue of being Native American or of European or Chinese ancestry are still - weirdly - humans who all came from the same origin as people in Europe or Africa or Asia.
Tell me a place in Europe that is not a result of immigration.
No European nation has a majority of its population whose ancestors were not part of that nation when it was created I believe, whether the UK (or its individual home nations), France, Germany or Spain or Italy or Russia etc. Most Americans however are descended from immigrants who arrived after the USA was created in 1776
When was Wales "created"? What about Greece? Or Germany?
Most Welsh have Celtic Welsh ancestry, most Greeks have Greek ancestry, certainly since Greek independence in 1830, most Germans have German ancestry since it was united in 1871
So you don't know what Wales was "created". And you think Greece was "created" in 1830. And you don't think everyone in Wales has Saxon ancestry.
Why do you do this to yourself?
Greece was created in 1830, before that it was part of the Ottoman Empire, though most Greeks can likely trace their ancestry to Sparta or Athens too. Wales was united in the 11th century and most Welsh could certainly trace their ancestry from then.
It's honestly tragic to see someone think so rigidly as you do, blundering into webs of complexity because you can't see anything beyond textbook facts. What do you know of Greece within the Ottoman Empire? Or within Byzantium, or Rome, or as Hellenic city-states before then? Did Greece cease to be when it was variously occupied by Germany and Italy in the 40s? If not, why did it not exist within earlier empires? If so, did Greece really only exist in the the last 100 years?
"Close allies of Johnson said there was “huge anger” in Downing Street over Sunak’s resignation. One senior Number 10 official called Sunak “a treacherous bastard”. Sunak launched his candidacy to become Tory leader on Friday, with a video in which he pledged to end “comforting fairy tales” — a coded attack on Johnson’s time as prime minister. One government official close to Johnson said Sunak did not inform the prime minister of his intention to quit, although another Whitehall insider said Sunak “tried to call the prime minister but he didn’t answer”.
I’m not sure Boris matters that much, right now. He does not have an ideology, and he therefore does not have a tribe that follows the ideology (unlike Thatcher)
And for his people to accuse others of disloyalty when he demanded, for years, that ministers lie painfully on his behalf with scant return from him, is quite rich
I like Boris. But he needs to butt out of this campaign
Of course, he might get that, and this is just his aides venting their angst
Boris will now use Machiavelli style tactics in the MPs ballots I believe via his supporters to knock Sunak out before the members stage in revenge for his treachery
Does Boris care that much?
I don’t think he does. He’s not a man who enjoys politicking as a blood sport
But i could be wrong. We shall see. It is past midnight on Kotor Bay. Goodnight all
Fat Boy Fat can command at most 60 MPs and that is before the king fell to earth. I doubt it is more than 30 now.
One of the things that everyone forgets about Johnson is that he never had nor does he have now any kind of backbench support. He was always a transactional leader and there is no longer any pay avilable,
Really, it ought to be Sunak-Truss. Whatever one thinks of them, they're streets ahead in terms on credible experience, which is kind of important.
Some questions...
How big is the ERG these days? A third of the parliamentary party definitely gets them a slot in the membership ballot. Can they do that?
How long will the Mail keep up their requiem vigil for Boris? If it continues, that ought to favour the more loyal candidate.
When does the Boris dirt really start to get dished?
I don’t think the ERG are all going to vote for Braverman and even if they did their suggested membership is no where near enough to get Braverman into the final 2.
I think Sunak is one big endorsement (Wallace?) away from being the clear front-runner, with a hardliner (Truss or perhaps Braverman) being the likely rival for the ballot. But I suspect there are some media character assassinations to come which may change the odds.
I think Sunak is one big endorsement (Wallace?) away from being the clear front-runner, with a hardliner (Truss or perhaps Braverman) being the likely rival for the ballot. But I suspect there are some media character assassinations to come which may change the odds.
Still, remember when Sunak was a man whose time had been and gone? That was, ooh, about two weeks ago. I make this comment only as a reminder to my future self not to write off someone because they appear to have peaked too soon. Of course, there's nothing to say you can only peak too soon once.
I think Sunak is one big endorsement (Wallace?) away from being the clear front-runner, with a hardliner (Truss or perhaps Braverman) being the likely rival for the ballot. But I suspect there are some media character assassinations to come which may change the odds.
This is an excellent point. Someone somewhere is sitting on a juicy story, waiting to blow up a rival. There's even a chance it'll be a true scandal, but even if it's made up it could work. Lots can happen in the coming days.
Of the declared and potential candidates, it's interesting to see their various experience. Most have been MPs since 2010 or more recently, and barring Wallace the most likely contenders have been from then.
Badenoch - Minister of State - MP since 2017 Braverman - Cabinet Minister - MP since 2015 Sunak - Cabinet Minister - MP since 2015 Tugendhat - Select Committee Chair, no ministerial experience - MP since 2015 Baron - no ministerial experience - MP since 2001 Berry - Minister of State - MP since 2010 Javid - Cabinet Minister - MP since 2010 Truss - Cabinet Minister - MP since 2010 Wallace - Cabinet Minister - MP since 2005 Zahawi - Cabinet Minister - MP since 2010 Hunt - Cabinet Minister - MP since 2005 Mordaunt - Miniser of State - MP since 2010 Schapps - Cabinet Minister (I actually had no idea what he was currenly minister of) - MP since 2005 Dorries - Cabinet Minister - MP since 2005
What's the record in the modern era for the shortest period for someone entering parliament to becoming PM?
"Close allies of Johnson said there was “huge anger” in Downing Street over Sunak’s resignation. One senior Number 10 official called Sunak “a treacherous bastard”. Sunak launched his candidacy to become Tory leader on Friday, with a video in which he pledged to end “comforting fairy tales” — a coded attack on Johnson’s time as prime minister. One government official close to Johnson said Sunak did not inform the prime minister of his intention to quit, although another Whitehall insider said Sunak “tried to call the prime minister but he didn’t answer”.
I’m not sure Boris matters that much, right now. He does not have an ideology, and he therefore does not have a tribe that follows the ideology (unlike Thatcher)
And for his people to accuse others of disloyalty when he demanded, for years, that ministers lie painfully on his behalf with scant return from him, is quite rich
I like Boris. But he needs to butt out of this campaign
Of course, he might get that, and this is just his aides venting their angst
A damning point. Sure, they did eventually quit on him. But they were loyal through a lot of hard times.
It's the classic poor leader thing - thinking nothing of what he was asking of them, but still expecting eternal fealty.
I think Sunak is one big endorsement (Wallace?) away from being the clear front-runner, with a hardliner (Truss or perhaps Braverman) being the likely rival for the ballot. But I suspect there are some media character assassinations to come which may change the odds.
This is an excellent point. Someone somewhere is sitting on a juicy story, waiting to blow up a rival. There's even a chance it'll be a true scandal, but even if it's made up it could work. Lots can happen in the coming days.
I had written Sunak off, but if he can get loads of momentum then FPNs and non-dom stuff won't stop him.
Anyway, as Boris's election shows, people can know all the scandalous stuff, and it won't matter so long as the circumstances are right - if MPs think he is the answer, the juicy stuff won't matter right now, even if it will later.
You know that AI image generator that produces horrific images of things like the Supreme Court? Someone ought to type "Tory leadership contest" into it.
Comments
Truss is a definite no (not up to the job) as is Braveman.
Absolutely no idea how this will play out. Doesn't help that we don't know the rules.
But right now Braverman looks value to trade.
Wallace to declare or not?
That is the question. Throws it all in the air.
There are just too many confounding and inexplicable hominid remains from too many weird places. Especially China
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-china-is-rewriting-the-book-on-human-origins/
That wouldn't prevent a contest, we saw a big lead did not stop that for Boris/Hunt, but if he is so far ahead some will pressure the others to drop out.
If Truss doesn’t win I think she’s got a good chance for CoE.
JRM and Nadine are probably gone though.
I think Wallace will sit it out, probably backing Sunak, Mordaunt will be the sort of sane solid Tory needed after the election defeat, so will save her powder for then.
It will be Sunak and Truss in the final 2, with Truss winning the members.
The Twitter Board is committed to closing the transaction on the price and terms agreed upon with Mr. Musk and plans to pursue legal action to enforce the merger agreement. We are confident we will prevail in the Delaware Court of Chancery.
https://twitter.com/btaylor/status/1545526087089696768
You are conflating “nations” with “race” and “genetics” and basic fucking facts that all humans eminate from one “tree” out of Africa.
All citizens of the US by virtue of being Native American or of European or Chinese ancestry are still - weirdly - humans who all came from the same origin as people in Europe or Africa or Asia.
Tell me a place in Europe that is not a result of immigration.
We have had Sunak occupying the second most powerful office in the land. He wasn't good enough.
You and I were both Leavers, right? Yet I will admit our image took a big knock after Brexit. What had been seen as a modern, welcoming, quite dynamic country suddenly looked crabbed and inward. This is not good
So we have to go out and sell ourselves. Not least, because we are in the international marketplace competing for the best human talent out there. We want them to come to London, and to Britain. Because Britain still is that welcoming, inclusive, dynamic place - which it is
An Indian leader would help with that. Just as having a female prime minister made the world think differently about Thatcher’s Britain
Sunak is also highly qualified for the job: smart, educated, personable, numerate
He’s not ideal but he’s a pretty good choice
Today is the coolest hot day I can remember. It must be something to do with dry heat versus humid heat.
I just do not think Wallace is going to stand but could be wrong
However, if he backed Rishi that would be a huge moment
I have also noticed that Twitter is now going much easier on its rightwing users, you can see the difference Musk made just by *threatening* to take over
Or we just don't know
https://www.ft.com/content/ea706ae0-284c-43f3-adb8-55c3ad8bc250
"Close allies of Johnson said there was “huge anger” in Downing Street over Sunak’s resignation. One senior Number 10 official called Sunak “a treacherous bastard”. Sunak launched his candidacy to become Tory leader on Friday, with a video in which he pledged to end “comforting fairy tales” — a coded attack on Johnson’s time as prime minister. One government official close to Johnson said Sunak did not inform the prime minister of his intention to quit, although another Whitehall insider said Sunak “tried to call the prime minister but he didn’t answer”.
This dry heat is great. And looks like staying next week. Dew points at or around 10C most days, occasionally descending to lip-cracking sub-5C levels.
Penny might be an empty swimsuit. I don't know. But I KNOW Sunak's deficiencies.
Regarding Rishi's ability to turn the UK's image around, how many tourists actually come because we're 'Cool Britannia' and how many come because of Harry Potter, Agatha Christie, the Royals, Downton etc.? Deeds are better than words. A PM who is actually making us prosperous and free beats someone who looks good shaking hands with Justin Trudeau (whilst standing on a hassock).
Those that think he is not the one should lay now imho.
And you don't think everyone in Wales has Saxon ancestry.
Why do you do this to yourself?
(One of my all-time favourite bands is a Welsh outfit called Bob Delyn. "All the Harps". Obviously.)
And for his people to accuse others of disloyalty when he demanded, for years, that ministers lie painfully on his behalf with scant return from him, is quite rich
I like Boris. But he needs to butt out of this campaign
Of course, he might get that, and this is just his aides venting their angst
Public executions for Patel J R-M Dorries Braverman
I find him a very good speaker and quite an affable character . I think he will shore up those Blue Wall southern seats . The concerns around those ex Labour Red Wall seats is overblown .
The Tories only need to keep a handful and keep their Blue Wall and they have a decent majority .
It would also be quite a thing to have the first Asian heritage PM .
As a Labour supporter I of course hope the Tories are trounced at the next GE but I can see his appeal .
He’s a military man through and through. I don’t think he wants the job, also.
I don’t think he does. He’s not a man who enjoys politicking as a blood sport
But i could be wrong. We shall see. It is past midnight on Kotor Bay. Goodnight all
Some questions...
How big is the ERG these days? A third of the parliamentary party definitely gets them a slot in the membership ballot. Can they do that?
How long will the Mail keep up their requiem vigil for Boris? If it continues, that ought to favour the more loyal candidate.
When does the Boris dirt really start to get dished?
At the moment, punters (and pundits) have limited information but Sunak is definitely standing and has the most declared supporters: 15 according to Wikipedia. But it is early days: there are 360-ish Conservative MPs so probably you'd need, after the others have been eliminated, over 100 votes to get into the final two.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Conservative_Party_leadership_election_(UK)#Endorsements
Don't listen to Fairy Tales quotes Times.
I think this is v v clever from his team - any wanky bollocks pie in the sky shite that the other mad candidates come up with can be dismissed as fairy land.
Good start,
One of the things that everyone forgets about Johnson is that he never had nor does he have now any kind of backbench support. He was always a transactional leader and there is no longer any pay avilable,
Of course, there's nothing to say you can only peak too soon once.
Badenoch - Minister of State - MP since 2017
Braverman - Cabinet Minister - MP since 2015
Sunak - Cabinet Minister - MP since 2015
Tugendhat - Select Committee Chair, no ministerial experience - MP since 2015
Baron - no ministerial experience - MP since 2001
Berry - Minister of State - MP since 2010
Javid - Cabinet Minister - MP since 2010
Truss - Cabinet Minister - MP since 2010
Wallace - Cabinet Minister - MP since 2005
Zahawi - Cabinet Minister - MP since 2010
Hunt - Cabinet Minister - MP since 2005
Mordaunt - Miniser of State - MP since 2010
Schapps - Cabinet Minister (I actually had no idea what he was currenly minister of) - MP since 2005
Dorries - Cabinet Minister - MP since 2005
What's the record in the modern era for the shortest period for someone entering parliament to becoming PM?
It's the classic poor leader thing - thinking nothing of what he was asking of them, but still expecting eternal fealty.
Anyway, as Boris's election shows, people can know all the scandalous stuff, and it won't matter so long as the circumstances are right - if MPs think he is the answer, the juicy stuff won't matter right now, even if it will later.
Former chancellor kickstarts leadership campaign with a team of supporters working round the clock to make him the next PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/07/08/inside-team-rishi-slick-video-produced-48-hours-puts-humble/ (£££)
No names though (or just a couple).