politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Britain is a how many party system?
Comments
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Few rational people would, but the macpherson report didSocrates said:
Of course they did. It wasn't that the police involved were racist. The Metropolitan police service as a whole was "institutionally racist". The whole organisation was condemned.Life_ina_market_town said:
This has little to do with party politics. Few rational people would claim, on the basis of the Stephen Lawrence case, that there was a problem in the "white community" at large of committing racially aggravated homicides. Yet that is the implication mutatis mutandis of the arguments being made about the Oldham, Rochdale and Oxford cases in respect of the "Asian community".SeanT said:I don't remember lefties like Nick Palmer "contextualising" the murder of Stephen Lawrence by saying "murders by gangs happen all the time, for many reasons"
Yet here we have a series of gang rapes on an unprecedented scale with a clear racial motive and the Left is suddenly less interested. Odd.0 -
Ed's MPs are at least usually a little more circumspect in how much they detest* him (if they do) than Cameron though.Sunil_Prasannan said:
The point is, ladies and gentlemen, that Ed, for lack of a better word, is good. Ed is right, Ed works. Ed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Ed, in all of his forms; Ed for life, for money, for love, knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind. And Ed, you mark my words, will not only save the Labour Party, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the UK. Thank you very much.TheScreamingEagles said:I have to admire Dan Hodges, he's got a gig as a Times columnist now, and guess what, it is an Ed is crap piece.
*if detest is too strong a word, then serious disrespect can be substituted in its place.0 -
But you'd have to drop your verbs to have a convo with him!dr_spyn said:@Sunil_Prasannan
Imagine my disappointment not to read text message until several hours later, that a relative was talking with Ed M last week. I could have spoken to him....
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For all its faults (especially with respect to foreign policy), the National Government took exceedingly difficult decisions (the sort that Cameron and Osborne have ducked for the past three years), won two massive landslides, and enjoyed a broad measure of domestic success. This government has ducked the difficult decisions, couldn't win a majority in 2010, won't win one in 2015, and has been a lamentable failure. The contrast couldn't be more revealing.RichardNabavi said:
The most striking new piece of information we have had recently was the lamentable performance of Labour in the locals, and to an extent even in South Shields. It is astonishing that Labour, which we all thought was the only serious opposition party, has failed to capitalise on the fact that the government is having to act in the most difficult conditions since the 1930s.
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Have their been any other cases of one race or religion specifically singling out girls of a different race or religion for this treatment before?SouthamObserver said:
There's this ...JosiasJessop said:NickPalmer said:Reluctant to wade into the debate on race and rape, since as Cyclefree observes it gets gross when people try to make it into something party political. But briefly, isn't the position this?
1. Some people systematically prey on young girls, often from disorganised backgrounds, whom they find easy to persuade with a mixture of compliments, blandishments and threats. Some of them are organised in gangs. Some of the gangs are of Asian origin. All of them of vile criminals who should be locked up for many years. If anyone in authority feels inhibited in tackling rape or intimidation because of the abuser's ethnic group, he should be sacked.
2. Some political people object strongly to immigration, and seize on the Asian gangs to suggest that this is what you get if you have a lot of immigration. There is often a false implication, usually unstated, that this is common or even the norm among Asian men. This group appears more motivated by racial dislike than opposition to rape, since they don't usually make an issue of other rapes, whereas they frequently expound on their views about immigration.
3. Those of us who don't object to immigration naturally do object to rape. But the eagerness which the people in (2) seize on the issue makes us reluctant to comment because we don't really want to be in their company. It overstates it to say we're in a conspiracy of silence; rather, we don't want to be part of a conspiracy of incitement. The main issue is not race or immigration but law enforcement. I do agree that it's important that this reluctance to join in anti-immigrant talk doesn't inhibit police investigation - see (1).
Much the same applies to the less emotive issue of the NHS. Obviously the findings in Stafford are horrible. But it's notable that people who are all over the Stafford case, and explicitly keen to "pin it on Labour", are not bothering to comment on the recent investigation showing poor standards in a private hospital. Anyone who likes the NHS would gladly join a discussion on how to improve its standards and avoid more Stafford cases. But in any national hospital system there will be one that is worse than the others, and the issue is how to tackle that, not to jump from "hospital X was appalling" to "the entire system needs to change to my preferred political model". I'm as political as anyone else, but not everything that goes wrong proves a political point.
Two points:
1) I really hope you are not trying to downgrade what happened at Stafford as just 'poor standards'. If so, you may want to read the Francis report. Some (not all) left-leaning people on here have been constantly downgrading what happened at the hospital. Do you think that is right, either politically or morally?
As it happens, I was unaware of the private hospital case: can you provide details, please?
2) The issue here is sexual abuse of young children on a mass scale by organised, predatory gangs. Do you not think it is important to work out why and how these gangs operate? There are two ends of this story that needs addressing - stopping boys and girls from falling for them, and stopping the gangs from operating.
As an aside, have there been any recent non-Asian gangs convicted of organised abuse here in the UK in recent years? I'm not sure the CofE and Catholic church abuses count in quite the same way: their horror is all their own. In this case, we are talking about large gangs of men grooming, abusing and even selling young children. Not even the Catholic church went that far.
The list of ruined lives will become longer if we do not understand the why.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/8386018/British-police-smash-biggest-ever-paedophile-ring.html
And this ...
http://news.stv.tv/scotland/133584-life-behind-bars-for-vile-paedophile-ring-leaders/
And these ...
http://spotlightonabuse.wordpress.com/2013/03/23/were-islington-and-lambeth-paedophile-rings-connected/
And this ...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-165459990 -
Er.....because the vast majority of MPs are blokes?tim said:
Vast majority are blokes, you'll see the same with the gay marriage stuff next week.Tykejohnno said:tim said:Aside from Nadine all the Tories banging on about Europe are men.
Why is this?
Bollocks,radio 5 had a tory woman MP on this morning,karen Bradley and one ex tory woman candidate (Atkinson)now ukip banging on about Europe ;-)
Why?
You never seem to tire of reminding us of this - yet now its curiously slipped your mind.....
There is one lady MP who has been saying we should quit the EU.....Gisella Stuart....oh, hang on....
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I agree that it was racist of these Asian blokes in Oxford (and elsewhere - not an isolated incident of this sort).MikeK said:
All very well. However I know this for a truth, that if a white gang had groomed muslim girls for sex, and only muslim girls, for up to 8 years, everyone would be screaming racism from the top of their voices. Now that a muslim gang - and not the first - have been found out grooming white girls, and only white girls, that charge of racism is muted especially from the BBC and the Lefty world.SouthamObserver said:@JosiasJessop
When you start looking in even a little detail you find that there are so many cases of organised paedophilia and sex abuse of children here and all across the world that you despair. The Rochdale, Oxford and other cases have quite rightly attracted a great deal of coverage and do raise questions about the willingness of the authorities and others to delve too deeply into immigrant communities, but the fact is that violent, sexual crime inflicted on young people is deep-seated and goes across all communities, religions, ethnicities and the rest of it. How you deal with it except to hunt it down relentlessly and ruthlessly is beyond me.0 -
One down....
"A UKIP councillor has announced he will probably have to step down after less than two weeks because he posted a series of offensive messages about Jews and Muslims online.
Eric Kitson, 59, has admitted 'I don't see how I can possibly carry on' after sharing racist cartoons and messages on Facebook...."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2324335/UKIP-councillor-Eric-Kitson-said-Islam-cancer-racist-Facebook-page-step-down.html#ixzz2TJ7NYdSH
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Craig Woodhouse @craigawoodhouse
Indeed.
Tory rebels splitting on their own rebellion. Time for some Monty Python
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE
Banging on about Europe.
The master strategy the refreshes the parts other master strategies fail to reach.0 -
Maybe they were the kind of thick racists that have left london and improved education standards!!!Sunil_Prasannan said:
I agree that it was racist of these Asian blokes in Oxford (and elsewhere - not an isolated incident of this sort).MikeK said:
All very well. However I know this for a truth, that if a white gang had groomed muslim girls for sex, and only muslim girls, for up to 8 years, everyone would be screaming racism from the top of their voices. Now that a muslim gang - and not the first - have been found out grooming white girls, and only white girls, that charge of racism is muted especially from the BBC and the Lefty world.SouthamObserver said:@JosiasJessop
When you start looking in even a little detail you find that there are so many cases of organised paedophilia and sex abuse of children here and all across the world that you despair. The Rochdale, Oxford and other cases have quite rightly attracted a great deal of coverage and do raise questions about the willingness of the authorities and others to delve too deeply into immigrant communities, but the fact is that violent, sexual crime inflicted on young people is deep-seated and goes across all communities, religions, ethnicities and the rest of it. How you deal with it except to hunt it down relentlessly and ruthlessly is beyond me.
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Oh dear what a hypocriteCarlottaVance said:One down....
"A UKIP councillor has announced he will probably have to step down after less than two weeks because he posted a series of offensive messages about Jews and Muslims online.
Eric Kitson, 59, has admitted 'I don't see how I can possibly carry on' after sharing racist cartoons and messages on Facebook...."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2324335/UKIP-councillor-Eric-Kitson-said-Islam-cancer-racist-Facebook-page-step-down.html#ixzz2TJ7NYdSH
How can he post stuff like that and say he is mates with Muslims?
Too old to be on Facebook as well surely?
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Send in the clowns.
robert f paulley @robertferguson3 3h
They're already here.
Nicholas Soames on Tory rebels - If you throw these people red meat they're likely to come back for more. #LookWhosTalking #c4newsHuffPostUKPolitics @HuffPostUKPol
Which Conservative MP has voted against the coalition 129 times? http://huff.to/11BJbzw0 -
Cases of white paedophiles and sexual predators are not unusual:samonipad said:
Have their been any other cases of one race or religion specifically singling out girls of a different race or religion for this treatment before?SouthamObserver said:
There's this ...JosiasJessop said:NickPalmer said:Reluctant to wade into the debate on race and rape, since as Cyclefree observes it gets gross when people try to make it into something party political. But briefly, isn't the position this?
1. Some people systematically prey on young girls, often from disorganised backgrounds, whom they find easy to persuade with a mixture of compliments, blandishments and threats. Some of them are organised in gangs. Some of the gangs are of Asian origin. All of them of vile criminals who should be locked up for many years. If anyone in authority feels inhibited in tackling rape or intimidation because of the abuser's ethnic group, he should be sacked.
2. Some political people object strongly to immigration, and seize on the Asian gangs to suggest that this is what you get if you have a lot of immigration. There is often a false implication, usually unstated, that this is common or even the norm among Asian men. This group appears more motivated by racial dislike than opposition to rape, since they don't usually make an issue of other rapes, whereas they frequently expound on their views about immigration.
3. Those of us who don't object to immigration naturally do object to rape. But the eagerness which the people in (2) seize on the issue makes us reluctant to comment because we don't really want to be in their company. It overstates it to say we're in a conspiracy of silence; rather, we don't want to be part of a conspiracy of incitement. The main issue is not race or immigration but law enforcement. I do agree that it's important that this reluctance to join in anti-immigrant talk doesn't inhibit police investigation - see (1).
Much the same applies to the less emotive issue of the NHS. Obviously the findings in Stafford are horrible. But it's notable that people who are all over the Stafford case, and explicitly keen to "pin it on Labour", are not bothering to comment on the recent investigation showing poor standards in a private hospital. Anyone who likes the NHS would gladly join a discussion on how to improve its standards and avoid more Stafford cases. But in any national hospital system there will be one that is worse than the others, and the issue is how to tackle that, not to jump from "hospital X was appalling" to "the entire system needs to change to my preferred political model". I'm as political as anyone else, but not everything that goes wrong proves a political point.
Two points:
1) I really hope you are not trying to downgrade what happened at Stafford as just 'poor standards'. If so, you may want to read the Francis report. Some (not all) left-leaning people on here have been constantly downgrading what happened at the hospital. Do you think that is right, either politically or morally?
As it happens, I was unaware of the private hospital case: can you provide details, please?
2) The issue here is sexual abuse of young children on a mass scale by organised, predatory gangs. Do you not think it is important to work out why and how these gangs operate? There are two ends of this story that needs addressing - stopping boys and girls from falling for them, and stopping the gangs from operating.
As an aside, have there been any recent non-Asian gangs convicted of organised abuse here in the UK in recent years? I'm not sure the CofE and Catholic church abuses count in quite the same way: their horror is all their own. In this case, we are talking about large gangs of men grooming, abusing and even selling young children. Not even the Catholic church went that far.
The list of ruined lives will become longer if we do not understand the why.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/8386018/British-police-smash-biggest-ever-paedophile-ring.html
And this ...
http://news.stv.tv/scotland/133584-life-behind-bars-for-vile-paedophile-ring-leaders/
And these ...
http://spotlightonabuse.wordpress.com/2013/03/23/were-islington-and-lambeth-paedophile-rings-connected/
And this ...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-16545999
http://www.topnews.in/thailand-nabs-three-europeans-after-paedophile-tip-2165667
It is not hard to find many similar cases on the internet, including our own nationals such as Gary Glitter in Vietnam.
Up thread the comment was that the abusers state of mind for this sort of abuse is to treat the target of the abuse as "other than our own" with different morals, so acceptable. The abuser will often believe in their own mind that the abused girl, or boy, is happy with the terms of sexual engagement, as they have different sexual mores. Much the same seems to go on in the mind of the white offenders who regard the children in childrens homes as slags who enjoy a bit of sex in return for payment in cash or kind.
Sex with exotic foreigners without the awkward encumbrances of real relationships, has attracted people of many cultures over the years.
The significance of the Oxford case, and of similar multiple cases over recent years is twofold: these men feel that these girls are foreign, and do not feel that they are equal to themselves. In a word it is a failure of integration to British values. Secondly the muslim community is finally waking up to this as a problem within the community. White paedophiles acting as sex tourists have long been deplored, and these communities pursued in international police investigations. The Swedes in the above case were notified to the Thai police by the Swedish authorities. We will have made real progress when muslim communities tip off the police about these rings rather than turning a blind eye.
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I am staggered you really believe that. We will also have to agree to disagreeSouthamObserver said:
Well I know this for a truth: they wouldn't. So we will have to agree to disagree.MikeK said:
All very well. However I know this for a truth, that if a white gang had groomed muslim girls for sex, and only muslim girls, for up to 8 years, everyone would be screaming racism from the top of their voices. Now that a muslim gang - and not the first - have been found out grooming white girls, and only white girls, that charge of racism is muted especially from the BBC and the Lefty world.SouthamObserver said:@JosiasJessop
When you start looking in even a little detail you find that there are so many cases of organised paedophilia and sex abuse of children here and all across the world that you despair. The Rochdale, Oxford and other cases have quite rightly attracted a great deal of coverage and do raise questions about the willingness of the authorities and others to delve too deeply into immigrant communities, but the fact is that violent, sexual crime inflicted on young people is deep-seated and goes across all communities, religions, ethnicities and the rest of it. How you deal with it except to hunt it down relentlessly and ruthlessly is beyond me.
Personally if a load of white blokes had spent eight years grooming only Asian girls I would be screaming racism0 -
And I'm not saying the Muslim community as a whole is racist either. Just minority elements within it. But it's ridiculous to say that it just so happens that all the perpetrators in this case come from Muslim backgrounds, and all the victims come from white backgrounds, when there's another dozen cases like this.Life_ina_market_town said:
You have misunderstood the point. In any event, the Met does not represent the white community as a whole.Socrates said:
Of course they did. It wasn't that the police involved were racist. The Metropolitan police service as a whole was "institutionally racist". The whole organisation was condemned.Life_ina_market_town said:
This has little to do with party politics. Few rational people would claim, on the basis of the Stephen Lawrence case, that there was a problem in the "white community" at large of committing racially aggravated homicides. Yet that is the implication mutatis mutandis of the arguments being made about the Oldham, Rochdale and Oxford cases in respect of the "Asian community".SeanT said:I don't remember lefties like Nick Palmer "contextualising" the murder of Stephen Lawrence by saying "murders by gangs happen all the time, for many reasons"
Yet here we have a series of gang rapes on an unprecedented scale with a clear racial motive and the Left is suddenly less interested. Odd.
When the Catholic child abuse came out, how many lefties on here came out and said: "it's very important to remember that abuse happens by members of all religions, let's not think this is a Catholic thing". Of course not. Because, very obviously, there were clearly particular dynamics going on in the Catholic church that made this sort of thing prevalent. And in these cases, there are clearly particular dynamics going on in the communities that are connected to Muslim takeaways and taxi firms. We need to be honest and up front about that so we can understand what those dynamics are and try to reduce this sort of crime in future.0 -
Utter filth all roundfoxinsoxuk said:
Cases of white paedophiles and sexual predators are not unusual:samonipad said:
Have their been any other cases of one race or religion specifically singling out girls of a different race or religion for this treatment before?SouthamObserver said:
There's this ...JosiasJessop said:NickPalmer said:Reluctant to wade into the debate on race and rape, since as Cyclefree observes it gets gross when people try to make it into something party political. But briefly, isn't the position this?
1. Some people systematically prey on young girls, often from disorganised backgrounds, whom they find easy to persuade with a mixture of compliments, blandishments and threats. Some of them are organised in gangs. Some of the gangs are of Asian origin. All of them of vile criminals who should be locked up for many years. If anyone in authority feels inhibited in tackling rape or intimidation because of the abuser's ethnic group, he should be sacked.
2. Some political people object strongly to immigration, and seize on the Asian gangs to suggest that this is what you get if you have a lot of immigration. There is often a false implication, usually unstated, that this is common or even the norm among Asian men. This group appears more motivated by racial dislike than opposition to rape, since they don't usually make an issue of other rapes, whereas they frequently expound on their views about immigration.
3. Those of us who don't object to immigration naturally do object to rape. But the eagerness which the people in (2) seize on the issue makes us reluctant to comment because we don't really want to be in their company. It overstates it to say we're in a conspiracy of silence; rather, we don't want to be part of a conspiracy of incitement. The main issue is not race or immigration but law enforcement. I do agree that it's important that this reluctance to join in anti-immigrant talk doesn't inhibit police investigation - see (1).
Much the same applies to the less emotive issue of the NHS. Obviously the findings in Stafford are horrible. But it's notable that people who are all over the Stafford case, and explicitly keen to "pin it on Labour", are not bothering to comment on the recent investigation showing poor standards in a private hospital. Anyone who likes the NHS would gladly join a discussion on how to improve its standards and avoid more Stafford cases. But in any national hospital system there will be one that is worse than the others, and the issue is how to tackle that, not to jump from "hospital X was appalling" to "the entire system needs to change to my preferred political model". I'm as political as anyone else, but not everything that goes wrong proves a political point.
Two points:
1) I really hope you are not trying to downgrade what happened at Stafford as just 'poor standards'. If so, you may want to read the Francis report. Some (not all) left-leaning people on here have been constantly downgrading what happened at the hospital. Do you think that is right, either politically or morally?
As it happens, I was unaware of the private hospital case: can you provide details, please?
2) The issue here is sexual abuse of young children on a mass scale by organised, predatory gangs. Do you not think it is important to work out why and how these gangs operate? There are two ends of this story that needs addressing - stopping boys and girls from falling for them, and stopping the gangs from operating.
As an aside, have there been any recent non-Asian gangs convicted of organised abuse here in the UK in recent years? I'm not sure the CofE and Catholic church abuses count in quite the same way: their horror is all their own. In this case, we are talking about large gangs of men grooming, abusing and even selling young children. Not even the Catholic church went that far.
The list of ruined lives will become longer if we do not understand the why.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/8386018/British-police-smash-biggest-ever-paedophile-ring.html
And this ...
http://news.stv.tv/scotland/133584-life-behind-bars-for-vile-paedophile-ring-leaders/
And these ...
http://spotlightonabuse.wordpress.com/2013/03/23/were-islington-and-lambeth-paedophile-rings-connected/
And this ...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-16545999
http://www.topnews.in/thailand-nabs-three-europeans-after-paedophile-tip-2165667
It is not hard to find many similar cases on the internet, including our own nationals such as Gary Glitter in Vietnam.
Up thread the comment was that the abusers state of mind for this sort of abuse is to treat the target of the abuse as "other than our own" with different morals, so acceptable. The abuser will often believe in their own mind that the abused girl, or boy, is happy with the terms of sexual engagement, as they have different sexual mores. Much the same seems to go on in the mind of the white offenders who regard the children in childrens homes as slags who enjoy a bit of sex in return for payment in cash or kind.
Sex with exotic foreigners without the awkward encumbrances of real relationships, has attracted people of many cultures over the years.
The significance of the Oxford case, and of similar multiple cases over recent years is twofold: these men feel that these girls are foreign, and do not feel that they are equal to themselves. In a word it is a failure of integration to British values. Secondly the muslim community is finally waking up to this as a problem within the community. White paedophiles acting as sex tourists have long been deplored, and these communities pursued in international police investigations. The Swedes in the above case were notified to the Thai police by the Swedish authorities. We will have made real progress when muslim communities tip off the police about these rings rather than turning a blind eye.0 -
Doesn't sound like a very good matetim said:samonipad said:
Oh dear what a hypocriteCarlottaVance said:One down....
"A UKIP councillor has announced he will probably have to step down after less than two weeks because he posted a series of offensive messages about Jews and Muslims online.
Eric Kitson, 59, has admitted 'I don't see how I can possibly carry on' after sharing racist cartoons and messages on Facebook...."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2324335/UKIP-councillor-Eric-Kitson-said-Islam-cancer-racist-Facebook-page-step-down.html#ixzz2TJ7NYdSH
How can he post stuff like that and say he is mates with Muslims?
Too old to be on Facebook as well surely?
He can't be a racist because he's the only white bloke on a five a side team so he's young enough for Facebook.0 -
@foxinsoxuk
Absolutely right. There clearly is a problem with elements of the white community in South East Asia.0 -
And in white communities on parenting.....Socrates said:
And in these cases, there are clearly particular dynamics going on in the communities that are connected to Muslim takeaways and taxi firms.Life_ina_market_town said:
You have misunderstood the point. In any event, the Met does not represent the white community as a whole.Socrates said:
Of course they did. It wasn't that the police involved were racist. The Metropolitan police service as a whole was "institutionally racist". The whole organisation was condemned.Life_ina_market_town said:
This has little to do with party politics. Few rational people would claim, on the basis of the Stephen Lawrence case, that there was a problem in the "white community" at large of committing racially aggravated homicides. Yet that is the implication mutatis mutandis of the arguments being made about the Oldham, Rochdale and Oxford cases in respect of the "Asian community".SeanT said:I don't remember lefties like Nick Palmer "contextualising" the murder of Stephen Lawrence by saying "murders by gangs happen all the time, for many reasons"
Yet here we have a series of gang rapes on an unprecedented scale with a clear racial motive and the Left is suddenly less interested. Odd.
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I really don't like to see, as I do in Birmingham, four young muslim males in a car driving round. They give me the feeling of a dog pack looking for a bitch in heat. I recall an orchestra rehearsal at the Polish Club in Birmingham when such a pack was getting into a car outside and a respectable girl with a violin led to one of the pack shouting "nice arse". No, I despise them.0
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To top it all he is wearing a tie with a short sleeved shirt... I want my £30 back ukip!tim said:@Sam
Maybe there's a special UKIP five a side league, like the golf veterans tournaments, where they have a minimum age of 65 and all try to avoid getting into Europe.
"Phew, just managed to avoid the European places there Chalky"0 -
Nick P,dr_spyn said:@NickPalmer
The Bristol Eye Hospital were criticised over the management of follow up appointments, some patients lost their sight.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-189451/Neglected-patients-went-blind.html
I am sorry to report that even as late as last year, their follow up procedures are still poor. It was very difficult making arrangements by telephone, emailing is a technology which they didn't appear to use.
I have no axes to grind over the initial assessment by the doctors on duty at the time, but I really ought to have logged a formal complaint.
You are very naive if you think Dr Spyn's case is unusual.
It is a product of target culture. There are waiting time targets for new referrals, but not for follow up appointments. The contracts from commissioners often have penalties for having too many follow up appointments (or what the commissioners view as excessive follow ups).
As a result all Trusts under pressure (and almost all are under pressure) will prioritise new patients over follow ups. They get both financial and other benefits from meeting the new patient target, but get no payment for extra follow ups. If you do an FOI enquiry of any hospital on whether the patients get their follow ups on time, you will find many not dissimilar to Bristol Eye Hospital.
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You are more pessimistic about Spurs than you were about Romney.
At leas Tottenham have some sort of a chance
Spurs exist solely to torture Spurs fans and to provide entertinament to Arsenal supprters. The only club with a remotely similar ability to inflict misery on its supporters is Man City. It is no coincidence that the one time Spurs got into the Champions League it was at their expense. But even they have had a few things to celebrate recently. With Spurs it is constant, grinding let-down. All true followers of Spurs know exactly what won't happen on Sunday.
Depressingly true.
Spot on - life as a Spurs fan is all about enjoying the exquisite agony of rising hopes despite your previous experiences still then being dashed at the last minute... then again we took 1 point off Wigan, lost at home to Fulham (thanks Jol and Berba) only for Fulham to lose soon after at home to Arse/Chelsea... etc etc etc
Lasagne anyone?
Even if the miracle happens and we do finish 4th, we'll be waiting on tenterhooks to get knocked out in the prelim qualifying Champo league game next season anyway...
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What an utter [moderated] this man is.
A councillor who compared disabled children with deformed lambs that are dealt with at birth by “smashing them against a wall” is being investigated by police over his comments, it emerged.
Colin Brewer also claimed in an interview there were good arguments for killing some disabled babies with high support needs because of the cost of providing them with services. Speaking to Disability News Service (DNS), he said: “If (farmers) have a misshapen lamb, they get rid of it. They get rid of it. Bang! If you go to a farmer’s funeral there is not a lot of weeping because they are used to life and death. It is something they deal with on a daily basis.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/disabled-children-should-be-put-down-cornwall-councillor-collin-brewer-to-be-investigated-by-police-over-controversial-comments-8616097.html0 -
Absolutely, you never hear white men saying "nice arse" to women do you.Lewis_Duckworth said:I really don't like to see, as I do in Birmingham, four young muslim males in a car driving round. They give me the feeling of a dog pack looking for a bitch in heat. I recall an orchestra rehearsal at the Polish Club in Birmingham when such a pack was getting into a car outside and a respectable girl with a violin led to one of the pack shouting "nice arse". No, I despise them.
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A repulsive nutter. That he is subject to investigation by the police for his comments is profoundly disturbing.TheScreamingEagles said:What an utter [moderated] this man is.
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Yes, a sad case. This is a problem the national executive of UKIP to sort out. It's hard to accept that he didn't know what he was saying. I'm guessing that there will be a few of these unvetted or improperly vetted candidates or councillors to sort out. Such are the problems of rapid growth.samonipad said:
Oh dear what a hypocriteCarlottaVance said:One down....
"A UKIP councillor has announced he will probably have to step down after less than two weeks because he posted a series of offensive messages about Jews and Muslims online.
Eric Kitson, 59, has admitted 'I don't see how I can possibly carry on' after sharing racist cartoons and messages on Facebook...."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2324335/UKIP-councillor-Eric-Kitson-said-Islam-cancer-racist-Facebook-page-step-down.html#ixzz2TJ7NYdSH
How can he post stuff like that and say he is mates with Muslims?
Too old to be on Facebook as well surely?
Edited0 -
For PC reasons the political class colluded in covering up the grooming aka the biggest child abuse case in modern British history.
Doing that enticed many more abusers in because they had no fear of the law.
In the leaked documents from Rotherham the council estimated 300 girls in South Yorkshire at that time so i'd guess at c. 6000 or so victims overall from 2000-2010.
I'd guess about 2/3 of those wouldn't have happened if the police hadn't been beasted into ignoring it by the political class so maybe around 4000. Just a guess.
Regardless of whether the races/religions of the victims/perpetrators were a factor in the crimes the races/religions of the victims and perpetrators were critical to the political class' decision to ignore the problem. The political class ignored the problem because of race/religion.
That should be the critical point for the public. That the political class will view crimes against their children through a PC filter and ignore and cover-up those crimes if they don't fit the PC narrative.
0 -
Not excusing it, but my favourite retort to this sort of thing was from a friend who was wolf-whistled by a builder: "You shouldn't be working on a building site if you need glasses, mate."TheScreamingEagles said:
Absolutely, you never hear white men saying "nice arse" to women do you.Lewis_Duckworth said:I really don't like to see, as I do in Birmingham, four young muslim males in a car driving round. They give me the feeling of a dog pack looking for a bitch in heat. I recall an orchestra rehearsal at the Polish Club in Birmingham when such a pack was getting into a car outside and a respectable girl with a violin led to one of the pack shouting "nice arse". No, I despise them.
0 -
The grooming gangs target children's homes a lot. Doesn't that make the government in loco parentis?CarlottaVance said:
And in white communities on parenting.....Socrates said:
And in these cases, there are clearly particular dynamics going on in the communities that are connected to Muslim takeaways and taxi firms.Life_ina_market_town said:
You have misunderstood the point. In any event, the Met does not represent the white community as a whole.Socrates said:
Of course they did. It wasn't that the police involved were racist. The Metropolitan police service as a whole was "institutionally racist". The whole organisation was condemned.Life_ina_market_town said:
This has little to do with party politics. Few rational people would claim, on the basis of the Stephen Lawrence case, that there was a problem in the "white community" at large of committing racially aggravated homicides. Yet that is the implication mutatis mutandis of the arguments being made about the Oldham, Rochdale and Oxford cases in respect of the "Asian community".SeanT said:I don't remember lefties like Nick Palmer "contextualising" the murder of Stephen Lawrence by saying "murders by gangs happen all the time, for many reasons"
Yet here we have a series of gang rapes on an unprecedented scale with a clear racial motive and the Left is suddenly less interested. Odd.0 -
Not in such a situation, with lots of respectable people round, unless they're football hooligans or late-night drunks - but this was 6.30 pm on a Monday evening. And, as we know from Rotherham, Derby, Rochdale, Oxford, these groups follow through in dog-pack type behaviour. The frequency seems disturbingly high.TheScreamingEagles said:
Absolutely, you never hear white men saying "nice arse" to women do you.Lewis_Duckworth said:I really don't like to see, as I do in Birmingham, four young muslim males in a car driving round. They give me the feeling of a dog pack looking for a bitch in heat. I recall an orchestra rehearsal at the Polish Club in Birmingham when such a pack was getting into a car outside and a respectable girl with a violin led to one of the pack shouting "nice arse". No, I despise them.
And they come from the same religion where there's been three separate terror trials of Birmingham groups this year - a total of around 20 defendants, all found guilty.0 -
MrJones said:
For PC reasons the political class colluded in covering up the grooming aka the biggest child abuse case in modern British history.
Doing that enticed many more abusers in because they had no fear of the law.
In the leaked documents from Rotherham the council estimated 300 girls in South Yorkshire at that time so i'd guess at c. 6000 or so victims overall from 2000-2010.
I'd guess about 2/3 of those wouldn't have happened if the police hadn't been beasted into ignoring it by the political class so maybe around 4000. Just a guess.
Regardless of whether the races/religions of the victims/perpetrators were a factor in the crimes the races/religions of the victims and perpetrators were critical to the political class' decision to ignore the problem. The political class ignored the problem because of race/religion.
That should be the critical point for the public. That the political class will view crimes against their children through a PC filter and ignore and cover-up those crimes if they don't fit the PC narrative.
Years ago if a black person accused a white person in a position of power of something they were ignored and that was disgraceful. I can understand why some black people have problems believing white authority figures care about them.
My whole beef with the pc brigade is that they have swung too far the other way and it seems cases like these back my opinion up. Two wrongs don't make a right.
My father was suspended from his job as a teacher by pc left wing nut cases who tried to throw every ism in the book at him. He was a coach at West Ham academy and when he gave poor kids in the East End his free tickets the police tried to accuse him of grooming them and had him arrested. If you knew my Dad, no one could ever say that about him.
The case was thrown out and he got damages but it could have been so much worse
0 -
You really don't get out much do you.Lewis_Duckworth said:
Not in such a situation, with lots of respectable people round, unless they're football hooligans or late-night drunks - but this was 6.30 pm on a Monday evening. And, as we know from Rotherham, Derby, Rochdale, Oxford, these groups follow through in dog-pack type behaviour. The frequency seems disturbingly high.TheScreamingEagles said:
Absolutely, you never hear white men saying "nice arse" to women do you.Lewis_Duckworth said:I really don't like to see, as I do in Birmingham, four young muslim males in a car driving round. They give me the feeling of a dog pack looking for a bitch in heat. I recall an orchestra rehearsal at the Polish Club in Birmingham when such a pack was getting into a car outside and a respectable girl with a violin led to one of the pack shouting "nice arse". No, I despise them.
And they come from the same religion where there's been three separate terror trials of Birmingham groups this year - a total of around 20 defendants, all found guilty.
I suggest you come to Manchester on a Friday or Saturday night.
You would be shocked by some of the things said on Oxford Road or near Canal Street.
When students, gays, alcohol and cheesy 80s music get mixed up.
0 -
My wife was once complimented on her arse, "nice arse" she replied by hugging me and telling the guys, thanks, i love him as well.NickPalmer said:
Not excusing it, but my favourite retort to this sort of thing was from a friend who was wolf-whistled by a builder: "You shouldn't be working on a building site if you need glasses, mate."TheScreamingEagles said:
Absolutely, you never hear white men saying "nice arse" to women do you.Lewis_Duckworth said:I really don't like to see, as I do in Birmingham, four young muslim males in a car driving round. They give me the feeling of a dog pack looking for a bitch in heat. I recall an orchestra rehearsal at the Polish Club in Birmingham when such a pack was getting into a car outside and a respectable girl with a violin led to one of the pack shouting "nice arse". No, I despise them.
0 -
I think this rather speaks for itself.Lewis_Duckworth said:I really don't like to see, as I do in Birmingham, four young muslim males in a car driving round. They give me the feeling of a dog pack looking for a bitch in heat. I recall an orchestra rehearsal at the Polish Club in Birmingham when such a pack was getting into a car outside and a respectable girl with a violin led to one of the pack shouting "nice arse". No, I despise them.
0 -
No thanks. I've seen enough of the deterioration in standards of behaviour in the last 30 years. Broad Street on Friday/Saturday night amongst masses of drunken porkers is not a place I feel comfortable or want to be. Funnily enough I find that my daughter and son-in-law have come to the same conclusion - they avoid many city-centre night spots. In any case, I think you are trying to deflect attention from the shortcomings of sections of the muslim community and their failures to integrate [this was the objective of policy for 30+ years].TheScreamingEagles said:
You really don't get out much do you.Lewis_Duckworth said:
Not in such a situation, with lots of respectable people round, unless they're football hooligans or late-night drunks - but this was 6.30 pm on a Monday evening. And, as we know from Rotherham, Derby, Rochdale, Oxford, these groups follow through in dog-pack type behaviour. The frequency seems disturbingly high.TheScreamingEagles said:
Absolutely, you never hear white men saying "nice arse" to women do you.Lewis_Duckworth said:I really don't like to see, as I do in Birmingham, four young muslim males in a car driving round. They give me the feeling of a dog pack looking for a bitch in heat. I recall an orchestra rehearsal at the Polish Club in Birmingham when such a pack was getting into a car outside and a respectable girl with a violin led to one of the pack shouting "nice arse". No, I despise them.
And they come from the same religion where there's been three separate terror trials of Birmingham groups this year - a total of around 20 defendants, all found guilty.
I suggest you come to Manchester on a Friday or Saturday night.
You would be shocked by some of the things said on Oxford Road or near Canal Street.
When students, gays, alcohol and cheesy 80s music get mixed up.0 -
Yes, i think the critical point is the political class decided to cover up the grooming because of the race/religion of the victims/perpetrators. That's the key point to make with the public imo. The current political class won't even try to protect the public's children against crimes that don't fit the PC narrative. All they'll do is try and cover it up.samonipad said:MrJones said:For PC reasons the political class colluded in covering up the grooming aka the biggest child abuse case in modern British history.
Doing that enticed many more abusers in because they had no fear of the law.
In the leaked documents from Rotherham the council estimated 300 girls in South Yorkshire at that time so i'd guess at c. 6000 or so victims overall from 2000-2010.
I'd guess about 2/3 of those wouldn't have happened if the police hadn't been beasted into ignoring it by the political class so maybe around 4000. Just a guess.
Regardless of whether the races/religions of the victims/perpetrators were a factor in the crimes the races/religions of the victims and perpetrators were critical to the political class' decision to ignore the problem. The political class ignored the problem because of race/religion.
That should be the critical point for the public. That the political class will view crimes against their children through a PC filter and ignore and cover-up those crimes if they don't fit the PC narrative.
Years ago if a black person accused a white person in a position of power of something they were ignored and that was disgraceful. I can understand why some black people have problems believing white authority figures care about them.
My whole beef with the pc brigade is that they have swung too far the other way and it seems cases like these back my opinion up. Two wrongs don't make a right.
My father was suspended from his job as a teacher by pc left wing nut cases who tried to throw every ism in the book at him. He was a coach at West Ham academy and when he gave poor kids in the East End his free tickets the police tried to accuse him of grooming them and had him arrested. If you knew my Dad, no one could ever say that about him.
The case was thrown out and he got damages but it could have been so much worse
0 -
I really just hope the government responds to these horrific acts with much tougher sentencing measures. If they don't, UKIP certainly should.0
-
Not really, I've long argued for a better integration of people from the Asian sub-continent.Lewis_Duckworth said:
In any case, I think you are trying to deflect attention from the shortcomings of sections of the muslim community and their failures to integrate [this was the objective of policy for 30+ years].TheScreamingEagles said:
You really don't get out much do you.Lewis_Duckworth said:
Not in such a situation, with lots of respectable people round, unless they're football hooligans or late-night drunks - but this was 6.30 pm on a Monday evening. And, as we know from Rotherham, Derby, Rochdale, Oxford, these groups follow through in dog-pack type behaviour. The frequency seems disturbingly high.TheScreamingEagles said:
Absolutely, you never hear white men saying "nice arse" to women do you.Lewis_Duckworth said:I really don't like to see, as I do in Birmingham, four young muslim males in a car driving round. They give me the feeling of a dog pack looking for a bitch in heat. I recall an orchestra rehearsal at the Polish Club in Birmingham when such a pack was getting into a car outside and a respectable girl with a violin led to one of the pack shouting "nice arse". No, I despise them.
And they come from the same religion where there's been three separate terror trials of Birmingham groups this year - a total of around 20 defendants, all found guilty.
I suggest you come to Manchester on a Friday or Saturday night.
You would be shocked by some of the things said on Oxford Road or near Canal Street.
When students, gays, alcohol and cheesy 80s music get mixed up.
I have to live with the failure of some to integrate.0 -
@TheScreamingEagles
What measures do you think would encourage better integration of the South Asian community?0 -
A person convicted of rape is liable to imprisonment for life. Only a mandatory life sentence (which exists only for murder, and not even for treason) could be tougher. What specific measures do you think should be introduced? Try for once to be specific, rather than the use of individual cases to pronounce a doctrine of lock 'em up and throw away the key.Socrates said:I really just hope the government responds to these horrific acts with much tougher sentencing measures. If they don't, UKIP certainly should.
0 -
Quite.Socrates said:I really just hope the government responds to these horrific acts with much tougher sentencing measures. If they don't, UKIP certainly should.
I'd like to see what would happen if they put indirect digs at the grooming cover-up in their leaflets like in a bullet point e.g.
grooming and the sexual exploitation of children - ukip councillors would never try and cover-up these sort of crimes and will always push the authorities into treating them with the seriousness they deserve.
It would be interesting to see the effect in all the places it's been happening.0 -
Restricting arranged marriages for starters.Socrates said:@TheScreamingEagles
What measures do you think would encourage better integration of the South Asian community?
We're effectively importing people who don't have the ability to the speak the language, it is terribly restrictive job wise, and doesn't allow you to integrate at all, if you can't speak the lingo.
I'd also restrict the marriage of first cousins, which is a ticking time bomb.
0 -
(Amount of immigration / Time) is the biggest factor imo.Socrates said:@TheScreamingEagles
What measures do you think would encourage better integration of the South Asian community?0 -
Well, for a start I'd get rid of concurrent sentencing. If you abuse three girls, you get three life sentences.Life_ina_market_town said:
A person convicted of rape is liable to imprisonment for life. Only a mandatory life sentence (which exists only for murder, and not even for treason) could be tougher. What specific measures do you think should be introduced? Try for once to be specific, rather than the use of individual cases to pronounce a doctrine of lock 'em up and throw away the key.Socrates said:I really just hope the government responds to these horrific acts with much tougher sentencing measures. If they don't, UKIP certainly should.
I'd also increase a life sentence from being 25 years to being about 40.
Finally, I'd like the various severities of incarceration to be classified on a scale, and specified in the sentence. The worse the crime, the more basic the diet, the lower the entertainment available and the less time out your cell. If you torture and rape children, then a diet of bread, water and beans and 23 hours a day in your cell seems about right.0 -
All seems sensible. How would you restrict arrange marriages?TheScreamingEagles said:
Restricting arranged marriages for starters.Socrates said:@TheScreamingEagles
What measures do you think would encourage better integration of the South Asian community?
We're effectively importing people who don't have the ability to the speak the language, it is terribly restrictive job wise, and doesn't allow you to integrate at all, if you can't speak the lingo.
I'd also restrict the marriage of first cousins, which is a ticking time bomb.0 -
One problem preventing integration by those from the subcontinent is this habit of parents taking their kids out of school for three months for long holidays there. This is illegal, but councils don't take action on it. They should.0
-
The average cost of feeding a prisoner is just over £2 (yes two) per day.Socrates said:
Well, for a start I'd get rid of concurrent sentencing. If you abuse three girls, you get three life sentences.Life_ina_market_town said:
A person convicted of rape is liable to imprisonment for life. Only a mandatory life sentence (which exists only for murder, and not even for treason) could be tougher. What specific measures do you think should be introduced? Try for once to be specific, rather than the use of individual cases to pronounce a doctrine of lock 'em up and throw away the key.Socrates said:I really just hope the government responds to these horrific acts with much tougher sentencing measures. If they don't, UKIP certainly should.
I'd also increase a life sentence from being 25 years to being about 40.
Finally, I'd like the various severities of incarceration to be classified on a scale, and specified in the sentence. The worse the crime, the more basic the diet, the lower the entertainment available and the less time out your cell. If you torture and rape children, then a diet of bread, water and beans and 23 hours a day in your cell seems about right.
The diet can't get more basic.0 -
Speaking of longer sentences, this is a good step forward from Theresa May:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/may/15/theresa-may-police-whole-life-sentence0 -
When they apply for their first visa, they must prove they can speak the lingo in an interview.Socrates said:
All seems sensible. How would you restrict arrange marriages?TheScreamingEagles said:
Restricting arranged marriages for starters.Socrates said:@TheScreamingEagles
What measures do you think would encourage better integration of the South Asian community?
We're effectively importing people who don't have the ability to the speak the language, it is terribly restrictive job wise, and doesn't allow you to integrate at all, if you can't speak the lingo.
I'd also restrict the marriage of first cousins, which is a ticking time bomb.
If they can't, no visa.0 -
Voters trust Clinton over GOP on Benghazi
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2013/05/voters-trust-clinton-over-gop-on-benghazi.html0 -
TSE,
I think they're already doing that. I'm not convinced it'll be enough.
Hopefully the income/saving requirements will have an effect, but we'll see if people get round it easily in large numbers.0 -
TSE
This article validates your numbers, but it sounds like they get plenty of variety within that. The worse criminals - sex traffickers and child rapists - should be back on a porridge, bread, and beans diet in my opinion.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4832552.stm0 -
Cameron's tweet of him with Harry provokes an immediate retweet from Hillary Clintohttps://twitter.com/David_Cameron/status/334383424959827968n
0 -
English is the best language in the world!TheScreamingEagles said:
When they apply for their first visa, they must prove they can speak the lingo in an interview.Socrates said:
All seems sensible. How would you restrict arrange marriages?TheScreamingEagles said:
Restricting arranged marriages for starters.Socrates said:@TheScreamingEagles
What measures do you think would encourage better integration of the South Asian community?
We're effectively importing people who don't have the ability to the speak the language, it is terribly restrictive job wise, and doesn't allow you to integrate at all, if you can't speak the lingo.
I'd also restrict the marriage of first cousins, which is a ticking time bomb.
If they can't, no visa.0 -
Not pirate talk?!Sunil_Prasannan said:
English is the best language in the world!0 -
The Pirate Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules!Neil said:
Not pirate talk?!Sunil_Prasannan said:
English is the best language in the world!0 -
Well, I'm still single at 37 - probably my own fault for turning down flat any chance to get a marriage arranged for me, but I felt that the principle of not "importing" a partner from the subcontinent trumped any attempt to please my parents!TheScreamingEagles said:
Restricting arranged marriages for starters.Socrates said:@TheScreamingEagles
What measures do you think would encourage better integration of the South Asian community?
[sigh]0 -
Lol, also going for the "back in my day things were so much better" nostalgia?Lewis_Duckworth said:
No thanks. I've seen enough of the deterioration in standards of behaviour in the last 30 years. Broad Street on Friday/Saturday night amongst masses of drunken porkers is not a place I feel comfortable or want to be. Funnily enough I find that my daughter and son-in-law have come to the same conclusion - they avoid many city-centre night spots. In any case, I think you are trying to deflect attention from the shortcomings of sections of the muslim community and their failures to integrate [this was the objective of policy for 30+ years].TheScreamingEagles said:
You really don't get out much do you.Lewis_Duckworth said:
Not in such a situation, with lots of respectable people round, unless they're football hooligans or late-night drunks - but this was 6.30 pm on a Monday evening. And, as we know from Rotherham, Derby, Rochdale, Oxford, these groups follow through in dog-pack type behaviour. The frequency seems disturbingly high.TheScreamingEagles said:
Absolutely, you never hear white men saying "nice arse" to women do you.Lewis_Duckworth said:I really don't like to see, as I do in Birmingham, four young muslim males in a car driving round. They give me the feeling of a dog pack looking for a bitch in heat. I recall an orchestra rehearsal at the Polish Club in Birmingham when such a pack was getting into a car outside and a respectable girl with a violin led to one of the pack shouting "nice arse". No, I despise them.
And they come from the same religion where there's been three separate terror trials of Birmingham groups this year - a total of around 20 defendants, all found guilty.
I suggest you come to Manchester on a Friday or Saturday night.
You would be shocked by some of the things said on Oxford Road or near Canal Street.
When students, gays, alcohol and cheesy 80s music get mixed up.0 -
It's not a general problem with young men. It's part of the gang-culture the BBC and political class spent the last 40 years pretending didn't exist.Morris_Dancer said:Saw a tiny bit of a BBC News mini-debate about race/rape. A chap from STREET in Leeds sounded convincing when he said that there was a general problem regarding masculinity amongst young men, in such a way that rape was seen as acceptable.
He didn't say this (that I saw) but it reminded me of a few years ago when I read of gangs using rape (for both male and female members, although with the males as perpetrators, if you will) as price for membership.0 -
40 years?MrJones said:
It's not a general problem with young men. It's part of the gang-culture the BBC and political class spent the last 40 years pretending didn't exist.Morris_Dancer said:Saw a tiny bit of a BBC News mini-debate about race/rape. A chap from STREET in Leeds sounded convincing when he said that there was a general problem regarding masculinity amongst young men, in such a way that rape was seen as acceptable.
He didn't say this (that I saw) but it reminded me of a few years ago when I read of gangs using rape (for both male and female members, although with the males as perpetrators, if you will) as price for membership.0 -
Yes.corporeal said:
40 years?MrJones said:
It's not a general problem with young men. It's part of the gang-culture the BBC and political class spent the last 40 years pretending didn't exist.Morris_Dancer said:Saw a tiny bit of a BBC News mini-debate about race/rape. A chap from STREET in Leeds sounded convincing when he said that there was a general problem regarding masculinity amongst young men, in such a way that rape was seen as acceptable.
He didn't say this (that I saw) but it reminded me of a few years ago when I read of gangs using rape (for both male and female members, although with the males as perpetrators, if you will) as price for membership.
Back then it was a very small problem with a very small number of victims. It's only become a huge problem with a huge number of victims over decades of the BBC and political class pretending the problem doesn't exist.0 -
Back when? Colour me skeptical that there wasn't much of a problem with gangs before 1973.MrJones said:
Yes.corporeal said:
40 years?MrJones said:
It's not a general problem with young men. It's part of the gang-culture the BBC and political class spent the last 40 years pretending didn't exist.Morris_Dancer said:Saw a tiny bit of a BBC News mini-debate about race/rape. A chap from STREET in Leeds sounded convincing when he said that there was a general problem regarding masculinity amongst young men, in such a way that rape was seen as acceptable.
He didn't say this (that I saw) but it reminded me of a few years ago when I read of gangs using rape (for both male and female members, although with the males as perpetrators, if you will) as price for membership.
Back then it was a very small problem with a very small number of victims. It's only become a huge problem with a huge number of victims over decades of the BBC and political class pretending the problem doesn't exist.0 -
It started becoming a big problem in the mid 70s but it was only in a few areas back then.corporeal said:
Back when? Colour me skeptical that there wasn't much of a problem with gangs before 1973.MrJones said:
Yes.corporeal said:
40 years?MrJones said:
It's not a general problem with young men. It's part of the gang-culture the BBC and political class spent the last 40 years pretending didn't exist.Morris_Dancer said:Saw a tiny bit of a BBC News mini-debate about race/rape. A chap from STREET in Leeds sounded convincing when he said that there was a general problem regarding masculinity amongst young men, in such a way that rape was seen as acceptable.
He didn't say this (that I saw) but it reminded me of a few years ago when I read of gangs using rape (for both male and female members, although with the males as perpetrators, if you will) as price for membership.
Back then it was a very small problem with a very small number of victims. It's only become a huge problem with a huge number of victims over decades of the BBC and political class pretending the problem doesn't exist.
0 -
If the "conspiracy" in question is the political class putting a PC filter on crime reporting then doesn't this thread and the dozens of others like it illustrate the point?Neil said:
Sadly you failed to blame the bankstas too and thereby didnt secure triple-conspiracy points.MrJones said:decades of the BBC and political class pretending the problem doesn't exist.
0 -
(1) As I explained upthread, a life sentence cannot be consecutive to any other sentence because its duration is indeterminate. What can be consecutive to a life sentence? A mandate of the Crown Court to St Peter requiring him to commit the offender to hellfire? When the court decides the minimum term, it does so having taken into account the gravity of the entire pattern of offending, and fixes a single minimum term to reflect it. If the offending is so serious that no minimum term would be sufficient, the court passes a whole life order.Socrates said:
Well, for a start I'd get rid of concurrent sentencing. If you abuse three girls, you get three life sentences.
I'd also increase a life sentence from being 25 years to being about 40.
Finally, I'd like the various severities of incarceration to be classified on a scale, and specified in the sentence. The worse the crime, the more basic the diet, the lower the entertainment available and the less time out your cell. If you torture and rape children, then a diet of bread, water and beans and 23 hours a day in your cell seems about right.
(2) Hard and fast rules about the average length of minimum terms for life sentences are a bad idea. They are likely to lead to a blanket approach that doesn't take into account the spectrum of offending.
(3) As TSE points out, prison food could really not get more austere. It is a myth that prisons are a holiday camp.
(4) As for Ms May's proposals that the murder of a constable in the execution of his duty should attract a whole life order as a starting point, is there any evidence that there is a problem with the current sentencing principles on murder? It just looks like getting tough to please backbenchers and special interests.0 -
sorry haven't read the whole thread, so excuse me if I've missed the whole point.TheScreamingEagles said:
Restricting arranged marriages for starters.Socrates said:@TheScreamingEagles
What measures do you think would encourage better integration of the South Asian community?
We're effectively importing people who don't have the ability to the speak the language, it is terribly restrictive job wise, and doesn't allow you to integrate at all, if you can't speak the lingo.
I'd also restrict the marriage of first cousins, which is a ticking time bomb.
anyway- do you think 1st generation immigrants are the problem here? anecdotally, when I was a student in leeds in the late 80s early 90s the then middle aged generation were grand, friendly and seemed to be pretty keen on integration. then their kids starting growing up, weren't so keen on all that. probably separated themselves to a good degree ( though I7d guess in the main their english skills were fine enough). It started to be a bit more scary walking through the Hyde Park/Burley area. the atmosphere became a fair bit more threatening
0 -
It's partly just a question of numbers. If your ethnic group are a minority of the young men in an area then things are more likely to go one way and if they're the majority then it's more likely to go the other.dugarbandier said:
sorry haven't read the whole thread, so excuse me if I've missed the whole point.TheScreamingEagles said:
Restricting arranged marriages for starters.Socrates said:@TheScreamingEagles
What measures do you think would encourage better integration of the South Asian community?
We're effectively importing people who don't have the ability to the speak the language, it is terribly restrictive job wise, and doesn't allow you to integrate at all, if you can't speak the lingo.
I'd also restrict the marriage of first cousins, which is a ticking time bomb.
anyway- do you think 1st generation immigrants are the problem here? anecdotally, when I was a student in leeds in the late 80s early 90s the then middle aged generation were grand, friendly and seemed to be pretty keen on integration. then their kids starting growing up, weren't so keen on all that. probably separated themselves to a good degree ( though I7d guess in the main their english skills were fine enough). It started to be a bit more scary walking through the Hyde Park/Burley area. the atmosphere became a fair bit more threatening0 -
course if there had been plenty of good jobs to go around, then there would likely have been less problems. young men with no prospects never a good thingMrJones said:
It's partly just a question of numbers. If your ethnic group are a minority of the young men in an area then things are more likely to go one way and if they're the majority then it's more likely to go the other.dugarbandier said:
sorry haven't read the whole thread, so excuse me if I've missed the whole point.TheScreamingEagles said:
Restricting arranged marriages for starters.Socrates said:@TheScreamingEagles
What measures do you think would encourage better integration of the South Asian community?
We're effectively importing people who don't have the ability to the speak the language, it is terribly restrictive job wise, and doesn't allow you to integrate at all, if you can't speak the lingo.
I'd also restrict the marriage of first cousins, which is a ticking time bomb.
anyway- do you think 1st generation immigrants are the problem here? anecdotally, when I was a student in leeds in the late 80s early 90s the then middle aged generation were grand, friendly and seemed to be pretty keen on integration. then their kids starting growing up, weren't so keen on all that. probably separated themselves to a good degree ( though I7d guess in the main their english skills were fine enough). It started to be a bit more scary walking through the Hyde Park/Burley area. the atmosphere became a fair bit more threatening
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yupdugarbandier said:
course if there had been plenty of good jobs to go around, then there would likely have been less problems. young men with no prospects never a good thingMrJones said:
It's partly just a question of numbers. If your ethnic group are a minority of the young men in an area then things are more likely to go one way and if they're the majority then it's more likely to go the other.dugarbandier said:
sorry haven't read the whole thread, so excuse me if I've missed the whole point.TheScreamingEagles said:
Restricting arranged marriages for starters.Socrates said:@TheScreamingEagles
What measures do you think would encourage better integration of the South Asian community?
We're effectively importing people who don't have the ability to the speak the language, it is terribly restrictive job wise, and doesn't allow you to integrate at all, if you can't speak the lingo.
I'd also restrict the marriage of first cousins, which is a ticking time bomb.
anyway- do you think 1st generation immigrants are the problem here? anecdotally, when I was a student in leeds in the late 80s early 90s the then middle aged generation were grand, friendly and seemed to be pretty keen on integration. then their kids starting growing up, weren't so keen on all that. probably separated themselves to a good degree ( though I7d guess in the main their english skills were fine enough). It started to be a bit more scary walking through the Hyde Park/Burley area. the atmosphere became a fair bit more threatening0 -
Yes, when the mods and rockers were smashing up Brighton beach people were well known to remark about the lack of gang culture. The Krays used to remark to the Richardsons about nice it was not to be troubled by such a thing.MrJones said:
It started becoming a big problem in the mid 70s but it was only in a few areas back then.corporeal said:
Back when? Colour me skeptical that there wasn't much of a problem with gangs before 1973.MrJones said:
Yes.corporeal said:
40 years?MrJones said:
It's not a general problem with young men. It's part of the gang-culture the BBC and political class spent the last 40 years pretending didn't exist.Morris_Dancer said:Saw a tiny bit of a BBC News mini-debate about race/rape. A chap from STREET in Leeds sounded convincing when he said that there was a general problem regarding masculinity amongst young men, in such a way that rape was seen as acceptable.
He didn't say this (that I saw) but it reminded me of a few years ago when I read of gangs using rape (for both male and female members, although with the males as perpetrators, if you will) as price for membership.
Back then it was a very small problem with a very small number of victims. It's only become a huge problem with a huge number of victims over decades of the BBC and political class pretending the problem doesn't exist.
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On topic
Happily there is an objective metric which gives us the answer.
Taagepera's ENP (effective numbers of parties) calculated as the reciprocal of the sum of the squares of the vote shares of all parties.
At the last election it was 3.7 and at the next it may be greater than four.
The good news is that beyond four, FPTP invariably goes into meltdown, produces a comedy result and is abandoned for a PR system.
Bring it on...0 -
You're proving my point again.corporeal said:
Yes, when the mods and rockers were smashing up Brighton beach people were well known to remark about the lack of gang culture. The Krays used to remark to the Richardsons about nice it was not to be troubled by such a thing.MrJones said:
It started becoming a big problem in the mid 70s but it was only in a few areas back then.corporeal said:
Back when? Colour me skeptical that there wasn't much of a problem with gangs before 1973.MrJones said:
Yes.corporeal said:
40 years?MrJones said:
It's not a general problem with young men. It's part of the gang-culture the BBC and political class spent the last 40 years pretending didn't exist.Morris_Dancer said:Saw a tiny bit of a BBC News mini-debate about race/rape. A chap from STREET in Leeds sounded convincing when he said that there was a general problem regarding masculinity amongst young men, in such a way that rape was seen as acceptable.
He didn't say this (that I saw) but it reminded me of a few years ago when I read of gangs using rape (for both male and female members, although with the males as perpetrators, if you will) as price for membership.
Back then it was a very small problem with a very small number of victims. It's only become a huge problem with a huge number of victims over decades of the BBC and political class pretending the problem doesn't exist.0 -
Do tell. Gang culture goes very far back. Google around the Scuttlers for an earlier notable example but one that barely scratches the surface.MrJones said:
You're proving my point again.corporeal said:
Yes, when the mods and rockers were smashing up Brighton beach people were well known to remark about the lack of gang culture. The Krays used to remark to the Richardsons about nice it was not to be troubled by such a thing.MrJones said:
It started becoming a big problem in the mid 70s but it was only in a few areas back then.corporeal said:
Back when? Colour me skeptical that there wasn't much of a problem with gangs before 1973.MrJones said:
Yes.corporeal said:
40 years?MrJones said:
It's not a general problem with young men. It's part of the gang-culture the BBC and political class spent the last 40 years pretending didn't exist.Morris_Dancer said:Saw a tiny bit of a BBC News mini-debate about race/rape. A chap from STREET in Leeds sounded convincing when he said that there was a general problem regarding masculinity amongst young men, in such a way that rape was seen as acceptable.
He didn't say this (that I saw) but it reminded me of a few years ago when I read of gangs using rape (for both male and female members, although with the males as perpetrators, if you will) as price for membership.
Back then it was a very small problem with a very small number of victims. It's only become a huge problem with a huge number of victims over decades of the BBC and political class pretending the problem doesn't exist.0 -
And again.corporeal said:
Do tell. Gang culture goes very far back. Google around the Scuttlers for an earlier notable example but one that barely scratches the surface.MrJones said:
You're proving my point again.corporeal said:
Yes, when the mods and rockers were smashing up Brighton beach people were well known to remark about the lack of gang culture. The Krays used to remark to the Richardsons about nice it was not to be troubled by such a thing.MrJones said:
It started becoming a big problem in the mid 70s but it was only in a few areas back then.corporeal said:
Back when? Colour me skeptical that there wasn't much of a problem with gangs before 1973.MrJones said:
Yes.corporeal said:
40 years?MrJones said:
It's not a general problem with young men. It's part of the gang-culture the BBC and political class spent the last 40 years pretending didn't exist.Morris_Dancer said:Saw a tiny bit of a BBC News mini-debate about race/rape. A chap from STREET in Leeds sounded convincing when he said that there was a general problem regarding masculinity amongst young men, in such a way that rape was seen as acceptable.
He didn't say this (that I saw) but it reminded me of a few years ago when I read of gangs using rape (for both male and female members, although with the males as perpetrators, if you will) as price for membership.
Back then it was a very small problem with a very small number of victims. It's only become a huge problem with a huge number of victims over decades of the BBC and political class pretending the problem doesn't exist.
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I go by the Laakso-Taagepera number.0
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new thread0
