A jeu d’esprit – politicalbetting.com

My only exposure to Corden was him being a dick at the end of an F1 season when Boris Becker was interviewed (he was glad Vettel had won). I'm not sure I recognise this 'worship'.

kle4 said:

tlg86 said:

SouthamObserver said:

One of the big challenges of fundamental NHS reform is that it would take so long to bring about meaningful, noticeable change - especially given recruitment and retention issues. I am not sure the same applies to gun laws in the US. Stopping 18 year-olds from legally buying assault rifles could be done very quickly.

Could it? Isn't the issue the constitution?

More to the point the issue is how politicians (in fancy dress, ie judges robes) have interpreted the constitution so broadly. That seems unlikely to change of course.

I like the idea that the right to bear arms should only apply to things that existed c.1791.

MrEd said:

malcolmg said:

kle4 said:

JosiasJessop said:

CarlottaVance said:

Annoying all the right people:

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2022/may/25/ricky-gervais-netflix-special-condemned-by-lgbtq-groups-for-anti-trans-rants-masquerading-as-jokes

The clip is NSFW:

https://youtu.be/yI6qvQtrTU8

Not particularly funny (like much of Gervais' stuff). The sort of sad stuff some comedians were doing in the 1970s and 1980s against gay people, pre-Internet.

Find a group who are small and cannot answer back. Poke fun at them and say they're a danger.

Gervais has never been very funny. I'm 100% sure people will be massively overreacting though.

A million times better than Cordon though who for some reason is worshipped in England. He is the unfunniest man in the world apart from that absolute balloon Jimmy Carr who gives him a run for his money.

Top comment Malc. How Corden is so popular is up there with the Bermuda Triangle as one of life’s great mysteries. Carr is just a smug supercilious hypocritical c*nt.

I can't stand Jimmy Carr but I like James Corden. He is a brilliantly funny stage actor, I saw him in One Man Two Guvnors at the National Theatre years ago and his comic timing was amazing. Probably the funniest thing I have ever seen on stage (and I go to the Greenwich Panto every Christmas so this is a high bar).

Mr. Leon, oh yes, it was wonderful of the BBC to report on London's desperately needed new transport infrastructure. Thank goodness the money could be found for that, and the first part of HS2, instead of being squandered on roads or rail in Yorkshire.

/salt

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Georgia Primary 2022 - Republican for Governor

Just 3% reported but trend appears clear . . .

Brian Kemp*
22,886 72.7%
David Perdue
7,063 22.4%
Kandiss Taylor
1,184 3.8%
Total reported
31,462

Ditto in GOP primary for US Senator


Herschel Walker
27,073 71.5%
Gary Black
5,592 14.8%
Latham Saddler
2,240 5.9%
Total reported
37,853

Not a great result for Trump with his Georgia Governor candidate Perdue trounced, despite recent victories for Trump backed candidates in Ohio and probably Pennsylvania Senate primaries.

Good day for Pence though as he campaigned for Kemp, so the former VP is still in contention for the 2024 GOP presidential nomination alongside Trump and De Santis

OnlyLivingBoy said:

I won't comment on the desperately sad news in Texas this morning because what can anyone say? We all know what needs to happen and we all know it won't happen because a American politics is utterly broken.
@Leon on your question yesterday on what to do in Cornwall when it rains - in my experience if you go for two weeks in mid-summer you will get at least a week of sunshine. In intermittent light rain you can still get out and about - go for a nice walk or cycle the Camel Trail. In heavy rain there are indoors attractions like the Eden Project, various National Trust places or the aquarium in Plymouth (we stay at Whitsand Bay, just over the Tamar from Plymouth). Or you can stay home and watch TV - the kids are always happy with that option! Still preferable to the horror of airports in school holidays, car hire, foreign supermarkets, driving on the right, etc etc. And it does rain abroad, too. The UK is by far the better bet for summer holidays, IMHO.

You are seriously dissuaded from foreign holidays by "driving on the right" and "foreign supermarkets"??!

The first one is pathetically lame, the second shows a sad lack of curiosity. I LOVE foreign supermarkets. Whenever I go to a new region or country, or maybe any foreign country, I like to check out the supermarkets. They tell you so much about a place. What they eat, their level of affluence, the state of viticulture, do they have decent cheese, what foreign products they like, ooh look they have live lobsters! Etc etc

Fascinating

I guess some people just like travel per se, and some don't. I am clearly in the former camp. A nomad. You're a stay-at-home. Hunter gatherers v farmers, freelancers v office types. Twas ever thus: the human brain is hardwired such that some of us hate staying in one place, some of us hate the opposite.

And BTW it really doesn't rain in the Med in the summer. About one day in 20 is half-rainy, and that will be a storm, probably quite spectacular

kle4 said:

Carnyx said:

Theuniondivvie said:

CarlottaVance said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Leon said:

I wonder if other countries have institutions that mirror gun law in the USA and the NHS in the UK. Things that are bizarrely worshipped and preserved, even though many in their hearts know that they are pernicious, stupid, deformed, silly, and which make outsiders say WTF - yet which also seem insusceptible to significant reform due to the worship thing

In the EU I suggest it is, er, the EU

The EU isn’t a country of course.

Countries can have more than one thing that are bizarrely worshipped and preserved.

Indeed.

That’s like me saying that countless Orange marches are an official arm of the propaganda op known as the UK.

If you insist.

Also, very snowflakey to get all sarky about folk walking through with their self-funded Saltires briefly , but at the same time hypersensitive about any comment on regimented arrays of UJs suspended for miles of London roads at our taxes' expense.

Both comments seemed pretty snowflakey to me. I mean, sure, the context was different in the two examples but it was still two posters getting worked up about flags (though I'm sure the getting worked up part will be strenuously denied). On the spectrum of snowflakeness they might not be on the exact same point but not that far apart either.

More like opposite ends of the spectrum , and one a real Toom Tabard to boot.

kjh said:

Leon said:

I wonder if other countries have institutions that mirror gun law in the USA and the NHS in the UK. Things that are bizarrely worshipped and preserved, even though many in their hearts know that they are pernicious, stupid, deformed, silly, and which make outsiders say WTF - yet which also seem insusceptible to significant reform due to the worship thing

In the EU I suggest it is, er, the EU

You really need to seek help with your EU addiction problems. You need to let it go. You are well travelled so you should know better. On my trips to Europe, by the nature of the type of trips, I meet and chat to lots of ordinary people and with the exception of one trip the EU was never mentioned. There is no worship, it just is. The one trip that was different was after we left and people asked lots of questions.

It is the political elite in the EU which worships the EU, and yes, it warps their societies. The EU is fundamentally undemocratic and therefore costly in spirit (and maybe in cash), yet seems incapable of serious reform, just like the 2nd Amendment and the NHS

Leon said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

I won't comment on the desperately sad news in Texas this morning because what can anyone say? We all know what needs to happen and we all know it won't happen because a American politics is utterly broken.
@Leon on your question yesterday on what to do in Cornwall when it rains - in my experience if you go for two weeks in mid-summer you will get at least a week of sunshine. In intermittent light rain you can still get out and about - go for a nice walk or cycle the Camel Trail. In heavy rain there are indoors attractions like the Eden Project, various National Trust places or the aquarium in Plymouth (we stay at Whitsand Bay, just over the Tamar from Plymouth). Or you can stay home and watch TV - the kids are always happy with that option! Still preferable to the horror of airports in school holidays, car hire, foreign supermarkets, driving on the right, etc etc. And it does rain abroad, too. The UK is by far the better bet for summer holidays, IMHO.

You are seriously dissuaded from foreign holidays by "driving on the right" and "foreign supermarkets"??!

The first one is pathetically lame, the second shows a sad lack of curiosity. I LOVE foreign supermarkets. Whenever I go to a new region or country, or maybe any foreign country, I like to check out the supermarkets. They tell you so much about a place. What they eat, their level of affluence, the state of viticulture, do they have decent cheese, what foreign products they like, ooh look they have live lobsters! Etc etc

Fascinating

I guess some people just like travel per se, and some don't. I am clearly in the former camp. A nomad. You're a stay-at-home. Hunter gatherers v farmers, freelancers v office types. Twas ever thus: the human brain is hardwired such that some of us hate staying in one place, some of us hate the opposite.

And BTW it really doesn't rain in the Med in the summer. About one day in 20 is half-rainy, and that will be a storm, probably quite spectacular

You'd love the supermarket in Malabo, Equatorial Guinea. A massive warehouse, glass on one wall, other walls solid. And over half the building is given over to booze.

When it comes to election time, the political parties blatantly bribe the voters with booze. Not a day to be on the roads....

OldKingCole said:

Leon said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

EPG said:

Heathener said:

Whilst reading up on The Elizabeth Line I came across this pretty damning indictment of Heathrow Airport.

Ties in with what I, and many others, feel about it:

https://thepointsguy.co.uk/news/heathrow-airport-not-so-great/

Without commenting on the article except that it's low-end copy appended to clickbait, I've used Gatwick and Heathrow in the T5 era, and both have been fine as gateways to the metropolis, but Heathrow is better for anywhere not London or points south-east, which is a lot of the country.

When they finish the railway so it goes all the way to the airport, Luton will be a serious player

No, I’m not joking. It’s highly convenient. Multiple rail lines pass through it, and you can get there in 30 minutes from St Pancras, which of course links to the Eurostar. You can also go direct to Farringdon, which now links to the Lizzie Line

I’ve often wondered why Luton has not been considered for massive expansion, given its advantages - and no one will mind if they knock down half of Luton. Apparently one issue is nearby hills? So level the hills then. Do it

Luton has its problems - the bullpen that is departures is not good when its busy. But they are expanding that and adding more airside shops and restaurants.

Remember who they serve though - budget airlines with high speed turnarounds. So there is no need to spend forever in the bullpen. The bus link from the station works and the pods will be better when they open soon. Inside its 5-10 minutes through security at any time of day. And the gates are no more than 5 minutes walk from the bullpen.

What's not to like? I detest the whole flying experience - especially having to wait around in stupid airports for hours. Luton is a London airport you can practically speaking just walk through barely needing to stop. Works for me.

Yep, I really like Luton. So convenient and quick, and then 25-30 minutes to King's X St Pancras, and a 5 minute cab ride to my flat. A gem

Perhaps it is better that it remains unsung, so it doesn't get crowded

I quite like City, but it is a pain to get to (and the Lizzie Line won't help much), I dislike Gatwick (crowded, wrong side of The Smoke) and I have a quite irrational hatred of Stansted, which is not convenient for me, but does not justify the way I LOATHE it.

I will go to great lengths to avoid flying in and out of Stansted. Something about it depresses me

Morning all. Don't often agree with Leon, but our local airport, Stansted, is not something of which to be proud!

Yes a shame how it has degenerated. I used to use it in the early 90s at least once a week and it was a joy. It was mainly because it was business travellers only! No fecking holiday makers! Closest to it now is probably City airport, but I haven't used that since just before the pandemic.

Farooq said:

SouthamObserver said:

Leon said:

Farooq said:

SouthamObserver said:

Killing bulls for fun in Spain and parts of France is pretty bizarre, to say the least, and pretty unbannable.

Catalonia, the Balearics, and the Canaries have all moved against bullfighting in recent decades and I believe killing the bull is banned in all three.

Whatever you think of La Corrida (I quite like it) it does not warp Spanish society, or cost it billions, the way the NHS costs Britain and gun law ravages America; so it's not a good equivalent

It is very heavily subsidised, but I take your point. I have very mixed feelings on bullfighting. Objectively, it is profoundly cruel to torture an animal to death for fun. I don’t see how that is defensible. But then when you do see one man alone in a ring with no defence but a cape leading a ferocious and deadly wild animal through a series of perfect passes you can forget the cruelty and admire, even be moved by, the bravery and the skill.

I root for the bull. Let the psycho be gored to death.

For me, the bullfighter is not a psycho. He is taking a very real risk, though entirely voluntarily, of course. The psychos are the ones who take no risk, but who profit from it all. And the spectators, clearly. To attend bullfights regularly you have to be fine with watching an animal being tortured and killed for your risk-free pleasure.

SouthamObserver said:

Leon said:

Farooq said:

SouthamObserver said:

Killing bulls for fun in Spain and parts of France is pretty bizarre, to say the least, and pretty unbannable.

Catalonia, the Balearics, and the Canaries have all moved against bullfighting in recent decades and I believe killing the bull is banned in all three.

Whatever you think of La Corrida (I quite like it) it does not warp Spanish society, or cost it billions, the way the NHS costs Britain and gun law ravages America; so it's not a good equivalent

It is very heavily subsidised, but I take your point. I have very mixed feelings on bullfighting. Objectively, it is profoundly cruel to torture an animal to death for fun. I don’t see how that is defensible. But then when you do see one man alone in a ring with no defence but a cape leading a ferocious and deadly wild animal through a series of perfect passes you can forget the cruelty and admire, even be moved by, the bravery and the skill.

We agree. I expected to hate bullfighting. My mum took me to see one when I was about eight or nine, at a time when I had the normal childhood sentimentality about animals (I remember crying over a TV report on hare coursing, at roughly the same age). To my intense surprise, I loved it

I've always loved it. I've actually researched it for the Gazette

It probably is quite cruel but I find it hard to get that upset because I know the bulls lead fabulous lives up to those fifteen minutes of terror, certainly they lead fabulous lives compared to the billions of animals that die horrible deaths - after horrible lives -in factory farms

Pigs in tiny boxes and chickens crushed together upset me way more than bullfights. I'm down to eating meat about once a week, I may abandon it entirely, or get really religious about where it comes from

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Leon said:

Heathener said:

Whilst reading up on The Elizabeth Line I came across this pretty damning indictment of Heathrow Airport.

Ties in with what I, and many others, feel about it:

https://thepointsguy.co.uk/news/heathrow-airport-not-so-great/

I travel a LOT more than you, as we have established - thanks to your irritation at my photos - and Heathrow is an excellent airport, given the difficult job it has to do. Not as good as Changi - but nowhere is as good as Changi, but better than its main competition in terms of actual world cities - ie JFK or CDG

Several of his points are simply nonsense. Yes, Heathrow Express is expensive, as his American notes, but it gets you into the middle of London in FIFTEEN MINUTES. It is a premium service. The American probably prefers a car, being American, but that will take four times as long and still cost twice as much, because London is big

And all the other terminals are rubbish compared to T5? Also nonsense. T3 has been completely revamped and now gleams as much as T5

Moreover, the Elizabeth Line will now whisk you direct from Heathrow right across London, to Paddington, Tott Ct Road, the City and Canary Wharf in the East (the last in an astonishing 44 minutes). And it will be a lot cheaper than HEX.

You need to start travelling again

The Elizabeth Line will be cheaper than the Heathrow Express, as you say, but also a damn sight more convenient because Paddington is a PITA to get to in the first place; also a lot cheaper and far quicker than a black cab.

The Liz Line will surely kill off the last taxi services between LHR and central London, except for a few Americans who don’t understand public transport

I wonder if it will kill off the Heathrow Express? The HEX is super pricey, but boy is it fast. 15 minutes is quite something. On a quiet day my flat is just 10 minutes by cab from Paddington so it’s also cool for me, but then I am also only 10 minutes in a cab from Tott Ct Rd or Bond Street, where I will be able to get the Liz Line. And the Liz Line will be way cheaper

The Heathrow Express is endangered. They will have to halve their fares to survive, if it survives at all

Remember that Heathrow own the tunnels under the airport and charge a premium for use of them. The reason why special fares to Heathrow apply even on Liz Line trains is because the Qatari investment fund people want to profiteer.

So the problem isn't HEX being expensive, its profiteering. Easy to steal money from clueless tourists, less easy when a way cheaper and not much slower once you connect at Paddington service now exists. So give it time and I can see them dropping the silly charges and then HEX may be a small premium.

At least its not Gatwick Express. Double the fare. To save 3 minutes. On the same trains.

Last time we went via Gatwick we caught the train from St Pancras - takes 45 minutes and costs £12.90

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

kjh said:

Leon said:

I wonder if other countries have institutions that mirror gun law in the USA and the NHS in the UK. Things that are bizarrely worshipped and preserved, even though many in their hearts know that they are pernicious, stupid, deformed, silly, and which make outsiders say WTF - yet which also seem insusceptible to significant reform due to the worship thing

In the EU I suggest it is, er, the EU

You really need to seek help with your EU addiction problems. You need to let it go. You are well travelled so you should know better. On my trips to Europe, by the nature of the type of trips, I meet and chat to lots of ordinary people and with the exception of one trip the EU was never mentioned. There is no worship, it just is. The one trip that was different was after we left and people asked lots of questions.

It is the political elite in the EU which worships the EU, and yes, it warps their societies. The EU is fundamentally undemocratic and therefore costly in spirit (and maybe in cash), yet seems incapable of serious reform, just like the 2nd Amendment and the NHS

Silly boy. The EU is not fundamentally undemocratic. That is a dumb Brexiteer canard. It is democratic via the Council of Ministers which are the heads of government of the 27 that are all democratic. It is a deal more democratic than the UN or NATO, neither of which I have heard you calling for withdrawal from. None of the 27, or the EU itself have anything that closely resemble The House of Lords either!

Only two countries have unelected members of the clergy sitting in Parliament as far as I know - the UK and Iran.

Missed this yesterday...

https://order-order.com/2022/05/24/exonerated-tory-police-commissioner-demands-apology-for-premature-resignation-demand-from-appalling-starmer/

Sir Keir’s double standards are highlighted in primary colours today, up in Teesside, where Tory Police and Crime Commissioner Steve Turner has been completely cleared of allegedly sexually assaulting someone in 1987 after a six-month investigation. In November Sir Keir called for the innocent Police chief to quit for just being under investigation…

Carnyx said:

Theuniondivvie said:

CarlottaVance said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Leon said:

I wonder if other countries have institutions that mirror gun law in the USA and the NHS in the UK. Things that are bizarrely worshipped and preserved, even though many in their hearts know that they are pernicious, stupid, deformed, silly, and which make outsiders say WTF - yet which also seem insusceptible to significant reform due to the worship thing

In the EU I suggest it is, er, the EU

The EU isn’t a country of course.

Countries can have more than one thing that are bizarrely worshipped and preserved.

Indeed.

That’s like me saying that countless Orange marches are an official arm of the propaganda op known as the UK.

If you insist.

regimented arrays of UJs suspended for miles of London roads at our taxes' expense.

Miles? - Regent Street.
Tax Payers? - The Crown Estate, same company that pays for the Christmas lights.

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

kjh said:

Leon said:

I wonder if other countries have institutions that mirror gun law in the USA and the NHS in the UK. Things that are bizarrely worshipped and preserved, even though many in their hearts know that they are pernicious, stupid, deformed, silly, and which make outsiders say WTF - yet which also seem insusceptible to significant reform due to the worship thing

In the EU I suggest it is, er, the EU

You really need to seek help with your EU addiction problems. You need to let it go. You are well travelled so you should know better. On my trips to Europe, by the nature of the type of trips, I meet and chat to lots of ordinary people and with the exception of one trip the EU was never mentioned. There is no worship, it just is. The one trip that was different was after we left and people asked lots of questions.

It is the political elite in the EU which worships the EU, and yes, it warps their societies. The EU is fundamentally undemocratic and therefore costly in spirit (and maybe in cash), yet seems incapable of serious reform, just like the 2nd Amendment and the NHS

Silly boy. The EU is not fundamentally undemocratic. That is a dumb Brexiteer canard. It is democratic via the Council of Ministers which are the heads of government of the 27 that are all democratic. It is a deal more democratic than the UN or NATO, neither of which I have heard you calling for withdrawal from. None of the 27, or the EU itself have anything that closely resemble The House of Lords either!

Two people gave you a like for this pitiful piece of dumb-fuckery? Get out of here. I am tempted to report this to the mods

Big_G_NorthWales said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Good morning all. Horrendous news from Texas.

But, as I always say, you get what you vote for.

And Americans vote time and time and time again to protect the gun rights of lunatics over the rights of children my daughter's age not to be shot to death in their classroom.

America is a third world country on a whole stack of measures, and the voters are only just getting started making it into Gilead.

We had one mass school shooting. We reacted in horror and passed laws so strict that chances of a repeat are very very small. America suffers them on a regular basis, smears the parents who then campaign for sanity, and suggests that primary school teachers arm themselves to defend their classroom. At least those are the politicians they vote for. And you get what you vote for.

So whilst I can barely comprehend what the parents are going through, there is a simple solution for Americans who don't want to suffer their kids being murdered at school or their horrendous metrics on various health and education metrics: leave. Move to civilisation and leave the savages to it.

Sky have just announced that the children killed were between 7 and 10, the same ages as two of our grandchildren who go to the same school

I felt a tear run down my face, and just cannot comprehend the horror for the parents who may well have lost more than one sibling

The US should be utterly ashamed of itself and those Republicans still claiming gun rights this morning have the blood of innocent children on their hands

Mrs RP has left for her school. To supervise primary age special educational needs kids. Risk of her getting shot and killed at work is practically zero. My 10 year old daughter is about to walk to her school. Risk of her getting shot and killed in class is practically zero.

I am a very VERY unhappy man this morning. I can't comprehend what those poor people are going through. But again, this is the society they all participate in. And what a society it is!

I'm not sure America can be saved. But if we're not talking about the shitkickers who want to arm Mrs RP or the healthcare companies and their vassals or the people who vote to defund education or the propagandists who tell people how America is the greatest country in the world despite its ever worsening outcomes in health and education and crime, if you look past those bastards there are wonderful people.

So as their country can't be saved there is only one safe route - leave. Think how enriched this country would be if the families of the poor murdered kids had emigrated here. Hard working, industrious decent people.

There is soooo much wrong with this country and yet we have the basics right. We should be offering migration packages to people to flee to civlilisation. Save sane Americans and leave the rest of it for Gilead.

Emotions are running high, but suggesting Americans leave their country is not the answer,

Change has to come from within, Americans need to grow a backbone and act

It's beyond saving. Far from thinking "enough" and working to change their country for the better, Americans seem to think "not enough" and do the opposite. Did anything change after Sandy Hook?

Its sad that "leave" is the only safe action. But it is. You get what you vote for. And the rights of people to buy rifles and to profit from keeping people stupid then imprisoning them for 125 years or from charging someone €1,500 for an emergency ambulance ride outvote the sane people.

So leave.

SouthamObserver said:

Leon said:

Farooq said:

SouthamObserver said:

Killing bulls for fun in Spain and parts of France is pretty bizarre, to say the least, and pretty unbannable.

Catalonia, the Balearics, and the Canaries have all moved against bullfighting in recent decades and I believe killing the bull is banned in all three.

Whatever you think of La Corrida (I quite like it) it does not warp Spanish society, or cost it billions, the way the NHS costs Britain and gun law ravages America; so it's not a good equivalent

It is very heavily subsidised, but I take your point. I have very mixed feelings on bullfighting. Objectively, it is profoundly cruel to torture an animal to death for fun. I don’t see how that is defensible. But then when you do see one man alone in a ring with no defence but a cape leading a ferocious and deadly wild animal through a series of perfect passes you can forget the cruelty and admire, even be moved by, the bravery and the skill.

I saw a bull fight in Southern France. The bulls weren't killed. The fighters carried out tasks while avoiding the bull. There was foam they could disappear into to avoid the bull (the bull didn't follow). In one case they couldn't get the bull out of the arena it was charging around so much and had to lead in a very large calm bull to coax it out. At one point they invited people from the audience to take part. 2 lads holidaying from Paris volunteered . It was scary. If not for the intervention of the professionals they were in big trouble.

Laters, peeps. I gotta catch a train

RochdalePioneers said:

JosiasJessop said:

IshmaelZ said:

JosiasJessop said:

IshmaelZ said:

Heathener said:

CarlottaVance said:

JosiasJessop said:

CarlottaVance said:

Annoying all the right people:

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2022/may/25/ricky-gervais-netflix-special-condemned-by-lgbtq-groups-for-anti-trans-rants-masquerading-as-jokes

The clip is NSFW:

https://youtu.be/yI6qvQtrTU8

Find a group who are small and cannot answer back. Poke fun at them and say they're a danger.

Tell that to the women who have been hounded from their jobs or physically attacked.

https://reduxx.info/uk-woman-assaulted-by-trans-activists-at-feminist-event/

Vanishingly rare examples and laws should not be built around aberrations or those who abuse the system.

The culture wars on this topic are revolting.

The vast majority of trans people, whether that's male to female, female to male, or varieties of non-binary are peaceful.

Live and let live. And the rest of us get on with our lives.

That's exactly what laws should be built around, surely. Fred West and Jimmy Savile were pretty unusual people.

I have never encountered anyone who was genuinely anti-trans. Perhaps some US Christians are because it's a perversion of God's handiwork? What we usually get is right on numpties who leap on any suggestion that safeguards are needed for fakers and edge cases with cries of "he said Jehovah! He said jehovah!"

I have encountered people who are genuinely anti-trans. They were working with people who were trans.

Awks.

But that's probably because most people rarely meet a trans person (or realise they've met one...) for such feelings to out.

"Safeguards are needed."

Gay men have raped other men in toilets. Where are the safeguard for that? None are needed, because a) it would trample on the rights of the massive majority of gay men who do not behave in such an awful manner, b) it is thankfully rare, and c) because it is unenforceable.

And before anyone says it does not happen:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-61386625
https://www.mylondon.news/news/east-london-news/man-raped-toilets-barking-station-17902126
etc, etc.

A truly and utterly imbecilic point. Do you think banning alcohol sales to under 18s is pointless and ineffective because adults drink irresponsibly too? Or we shouldn't restrict gun sales because knives and hammers are available as murder weapons? We should have no criminal records checks on wannabe scoutmasters because the massive majority of them are entirely praiseworthy individuals? Or that a ban on people with dicks in ladies loos is in some way unenforceable?

It really isn't imbecilic.

Let's take your last line. How do you 'enforce' people with dicks not going into ladies' loos? How do you check? Does someone stand outside checking people when they go in? Does Mrs J have to 'prove' she's a woman before she enters the hallowed sanctum?

How do you enforce it?

If someone commits abuse, prosecute them. Have an environment where victims can come forward and their claims will be investigated (we often fall at this fence).

And people transitioning need to live as their new 'gender' for two years. If you're MtoF, that involves dressing and living as a woman for two years. And yes, using women's loos.

My friend Lauren - who is as you say dressing and living as a woman - is pro-trans rights as you can imagine. But before transitioning was also pro-feminism. So isn't insisting her rights as a "new woman" as Ricky Gervais put it" override the rights of everyone else. Because she isn't a tosser.

This is what neither extreme end of the trans vs womens rights spectrum can comprehend. You can stand up for each others rights and be respectful and they don't clash. Its only if you are NO TRANS or NO WOMEN'S SPACES that we have a problem. So stop shouting at each other and let this happen naturally and tell the mouth foamers at both end to do one.

Not read much of this thread (things to do). But surely 'be nice to each other' and 'don't be a dick' covers most things?

Leon said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

I won't comment on the desperately sad news in Texas this morning because what can anyone say? We all know what needs to happen and we all know it won't happen because a American politics is utterly broken.
@Leon on your question yesterday on what to do in Cornwall when it rains - in my experience if you go for two weeks in mid-summer you will get at least a week of sunshine. In intermittent light rain you can still get out and about - go for a nice walk or cycle the Camel Trail. In heavy rain there are indoors attractions like the Eden Project, various National Trust places or the aquarium in Plymouth (we stay at Whitsand Bay, just over the Tamar from Plymouth). Or you can stay home and watch TV - the kids are always happy with that option! Still preferable to the horror of airports in school holidays, car hire, foreign supermarkets, driving on the right, etc etc. And it does rain abroad, too. The UK is by far the better bet for summer holidays, IMHO.

You are seriously dissuaded from foreign holidays by "driving on the right" and "foreign supermarkets"??!

The first one is pathetically lame, the second shows a sad lack of curiosity. I LOVE foreign supermarkets. Whenever I go to a new region or country, or maybe any foreign country, I like to check out the supermarkets. They tell you so much about a place. What they eat, their level of affluence, the state of viticulture, do they have decent cheese, what foreign products they like, ooh look they have live lobsters! Etc etc

Fascinating

I guess some people just like travel per se, and some don't. I am clearly in the former camp. A nomad. You're a stay-at-home. Hunter gatherers v farmers, freelancers v office types. Twas ever thus: the human brain is hardwired such that some of us hate staying in one place, some of us hate the opposite.

And BTW it really doesn't rain in the Med in the summer. About one day in 20 is half-rainy, and that will be a storm, probably quite spectacular

Quite the opposite, I love travel, but when you are travelling with three children convenience comes first. Being able to go to Sainsbury's and do a week's shop in half an hour is so much easier than wandering for hours in some shop where you don't know what half the things are, even assuming you could find them, all the while the kids are saying "how much longer" or "what's that?"...
Doesn't rain in the Med? We went to Puglia for a week in August a few years back and it rained *a lot*. Probably more than it had in Cornwall the year before.
Driving on the right... Yeah, I just don't like doing it. As for the way Southern Italians drive... Insane and terrifying. And it's much cheaper to stay at home, once you add flights for five and car hire.

You're scared of driving on the right. lol

As for driving in southern Italy, I did find it unnerving at first, then I realised the key is to drive like they do - do it fast, be aggressive, gesture a lot, call people names, park anywhere you fucking like, drink grappa beforehand, loudly shout at pretty girls as you triple overtake on a bendy road going to Taormina

Sorted

I wouldn't say I was scared of driving on the right, I just find it disconcerting and I have constant low level anxiety as I am consciously remembering to stay on the correct side of the road the whole time especially with the kids in the car. It does wear off after a few days but is definitely a factor in my preference for UK summer holidays. Cost and convenience are probably the main factors though, plus the fact that the UK is full of beautiful places which are best seen when the sun is shining.
Perhaps we are talking at cross purposes. Your experiences seem to be drawn from solo travel - I don't think you go on a lot of family holidays. My wife would not be very impressed if I drove around pissed trying to pick up local floozies.

Farooq said:

Dura_Ace said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Change has to come from within, Americans need to grow a backbone and act

The US has a more vibrant and recent history of resisting tyranny than the UK. The guns are there for use against the government. The British have just meekly ceded a monopoly on violence to the state.

Orgreave could not have happened in Kentucky.

A classroom of 8 year olds is not tyranny.

Plus there is a very long and murderous history of strikes in Kentucky.

Perhaps that is what @Dura_Ace thinks is a good idea - that at least some policemen/company men get shot when there is a strike.

Note that the striking miners ended up worse off than the British miners in every sense - pay and conditions while they were working and the final golden goodbyes when the mines closed.

Words fail......

Scholz insists to journalists that he’s “not as stupid as Kaiser Wilhelm II” to let Germany fall into a big war. He does not view Ukrainian victory as the goal and prefers a strategy of “active waiting” – cautiously participating until Putin says he has accomplished his war goals

https://twitter.com/apmassaro3/status/1529372589382041605

tlg86 said:

kle4 said:

tlg86 said:

SouthamObserver said:

One of the big challenges of fundamental NHS reform is that it would take so long to bring about meaningful, noticeable change - especially given recruitment and retention issues. I am not sure the same applies to gun laws in the US. Stopping 18 year-olds from legally buying assault rifles could be done very quickly.

Could it? Isn't the issue the constitution?

More to the point the issue is how politicians (in fancy dress, ie judges robes) have interpreted the constitution so broadly. That seems unlikely to change of course.

I like the idea that the right to bear arms should only apply to things that existed c.1791.

I think the original right to bear arms was intended as constitutionally protecting the idea of a citizen militia not that everyone could go round with military grade weapons they’ve bought from Walmart.

Maybe they need to start chipping away with a compromise - keep/tweak current rules allowing people to buy one handgun so those who want their “right” to protect themselves can do so.

Anything else they want to own should have to be held at a licensed range, gun shop, police station or equivalent so you have to go there to check it out if you want to use it on a range (because that’s what you bought it for right?).

By needing to go and check out your pet M16 to go down the range it stops people from grabbing their gun in an angry rage from their wardrobe and killing random strangers. If you turn up at the police station to get your gun and you are high as a kite or mentally unbalanced you aren’t getting your gun that day.

Anyone who demands they need their automatic rifle in case the British invade can rest peacefully knowing they’ve got their handgun to protect them until they collect their heavy gun and join the militia.

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

kjh said:

Leon said:

I wonder if other countries have institutions that mirror gun law in the USA and the NHS in the UK. Things that are bizarrely worshipped and preserved, even though many in their hearts know that they are pernicious, stupid, deformed, silly, and which make outsiders say WTF - yet which also seem insusceptible to significant reform due to the worship thing

In the EU I suggest it is, er, the EU

You really need to seek help with your EU addiction problems. You need to let it go. You are well travelled so you should know better. On my trips to Europe, by the nature of the type of trips, I meet and chat to lots of ordinary people and with the exception of one trip the EU was never mentioned. There is no worship, it just is. The one trip that was different was after we left and people asked lots of questions.

It is the political elite in the EU which worships the EU, and yes, it warps their societies. The EU is fundamentally undemocratic and therefore costly in spirit (and maybe in cash), yet seems incapable of serious reform, just like the 2nd Amendment and the NHS

Silly boy. The EU is not fundamentally undemocratic. That is a dumb Brexiteer canard. It is democratic via the Council of Ministers which are the heads of government of the 27 that are all democratic. It is a deal more democratic than the UN or NATO, neither of which I have heard you calling for withdrawal from. None of the 27, or the EU itself have anything that closely resemble The House of Lords either!

Two people gave you a like for this pitiful piece of dumb-fuckery? Get out of here. I am tempted to report this to the mods

Lol. Is that the best you can do? Read some decent literature, maybe even some decent analysis and you will stop coming out with things that make you on occasion look like an uneducated Daily Express reading oik.

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

kjh said:

Leon said:

I wonder if other countries have institutions that mirror gun law in the USA and the NHS in the UK. Things that are bizarrely worshipped and preserved, even though many in their hearts know that they are pernicious, stupid, deformed, silly, and which make outsiders say WTF - yet which also seem insusceptible to significant reform due to the worship thing

In the EU I suggest it is, er, the EU

You really need to seek help with your EU addiction problems. You need to let it go. You are well travelled so you should know better. On my trips to Europe, by the nature of the type of trips, I meet and chat to lots of ordinary people and with the exception of one trip the EU was never mentioned. There is no worship, it just is. The one trip that was different was after we left and people asked lots of questions.

It is the political elite in the EU which worships the EU, and yes, it warps their societies. The EU is fundamentally undemocratic and therefore costly in spirit (and maybe in cash), yet seems incapable of serious reform, just like the 2nd Amendment and the NHS

Silly boy. The EU is not fundamentally undemocratic. That is a dumb Brexiteer canard. It is democratic via the Council of Ministers which are the heads of government of the 27 that are all democratic. It is a deal more democratic than the UN or NATO, neither of which I have heard you calling for withdrawal from. None of the 27, or the EU itself have anything that closely resemble The House of Lords either!

Only two countries have unelected members of the clergy sitting in Parliament as far as I know - the UK and Iran.

So what? The bishops are amongst the most educated in the unelected Lords and most started off in parish ministry.

Farooq said:

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

kjh said:

Leon said:

I wonder if other countries have institutions that mirror gun law in the USA and the NHS in the UK. Things that are bizarrely worshipped and preserved, even though many in their hearts know that they are pernicious, stupid, deformed, silly, and which make outsiders say WTF - yet which also seem insusceptible to significant reform due to the worship thing

In the EU I suggest it is, er, the EU

You really need to seek help with your EU addiction problems. You need to let it go. You are well travelled so you should know better. On my trips to Europe, by the nature of the type of trips, I meet and chat to lots of ordinary people and with the exception of one trip the EU was never mentioned. There is no worship, it just is. The one trip that was different was after we left and people asked lots of questions.

It is the political elite in the EU which worships the EU, and yes, it warps their societies. The EU is fundamentally undemocratic and therefore costly in spirit (and maybe in cash), yet seems incapable of serious reform, just like the 2nd Amendment and the NHS

Silly boy. The EU is not fundamentally undemocratic. That is a dumb Brexiteer canard. It is democratic via the Council of Ministers which are the heads of government of the 27 that are all democratic. It is a deal more democratic than the UN or NATO, neither of which I have heard you calling for withdrawal from. None of the 27, or the EU itself have anything that closely resemble The House of Lords either!

Two people gave you a like for this pitiful piece of dumb-fuckery? Get out of here. I am tempted to report this to the mods

Four now

Four halfwitted nutters , unbelievable even for here.

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

kjh said:

Leon said:

I wonder if other countries have institutions that mirror gun law in the USA and the NHS in the UK. Things that are bizarrely worshipped and preserved, even though many in their hearts know that they are pernicious, stupid, deformed, silly, and which make outsiders say WTF - yet which also seem insusceptible to significant reform due to the worship thing

In the EU I suggest it is, er, the EU

You really need to seek help with your EU addiction problems. You need to let it go. You are well travelled so you should know better. On my trips to Europe, by the nature of the type of trips, I meet and chat to lots of ordinary people and with the exception of one trip the EU was never mentioned. There is no worship, it just is. The one trip that was different was after we left and people asked lots of questions.

It is the political elite in the EU which worships the EU, and yes, it warps their societies. The EU is fundamentally undemocratic and therefore costly in spirit (and maybe in cash), yet seems incapable of serious reform, just like the 2nd Amendment and the NHS

Silly boy. The EU is not fundamentally undemocratic. That is a dumb Brexiteer canard. It is democratic via the Council of Ministers which are the heads of government of the 27 that are all democratic. It is a deal more democratic than the UN or NATO, neither of which I have heard you calling for withdrawal from. None of the 27, or the EU itself have anything that closely resemble The House of Lords either!

Two people gave you a like for this pitiful piece of dumb-fuckery? Get out of here. I am tempted to report this to the mods

As one of the 'Likers', I invite you to consider the last sentence. Entirely accurate.

CarlottaVance said:

JosiasJessop said:

ydoethur said:

JosiasJessop said:

CarlottaVance said:

Annoying all the right people:

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2022/may/25/ricky-gervais-netflix-special-condemned-by-lgbtq-groups-for-anti-trans-rants-masquerading-as-jokes

The clip is NSFW:

https://youtu.be/yI6qvQtrTU8

Not particularly funny (like much of Gervais' stuff). The sort of sad stuff some comedians were doing in the 1970s and 1980s against gay people, pre-Internet.

Find a group who are small and cannot answer back. Poke fun at them and say they're a danger.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the trans debate, or of Ricky Gervais’ sense of humour (such as it is) it’s not really accurate to say they ‘cannot answer back.’

That's an issue I have - few of the people being most screechingly pro-trans (*) appear to be trans people. Trans rights increasingly appear to be a battleground for people with no real interests in what is right for trans people. It's just a reason for an argument.

(*) Hopefully I'm not 'screechingly' pro-trans myself.

The problematic behaviour is very rarely from Trans people themselves but from their “Allies” - typically proponents of gender theory (TLDR “gender not sex is what matters”) and more often than not, natal males. Add to that institutional capture of Stonewall who worried they had run out of causes when gay marriage was legalised and some very questionable medical practices by Tavistock/Mermaids (see Cass review) and we have a fine old mess. The issue is that the marginalised in this “debate” are not a very small minority, but slightly over half the population - women.

Rather more concerning that Gervais's comedy act (I understand he was using actual quotes of things said by TRA activists and if they do not like these being quoted back at them, they might reflect on why that might be) is a statement by a QC yesterday in the Bailey Employment Tribunal case.

The cross examination was about a seminar about how to overcome the "cotton ceiling" ie how to persuade lesbians that they should have sex with transwomen who still had male bodies. The QC (from the Chambers which is being sued) stated -

"You can persuade a lesbian that she might want to - that she could want to - have sex with a trans woman in a way that was not coercive."

Unfortunately, this does not reflect the law - which you'd have thought a QC who does rape cases - would know. The ECHR has ruled that any behaviour which seeks to negate or override a lack of consent to sex may be deemed coercive and that includes "persuasion". In short, sexual autonomy requires consent to be fully and freely given not something you should be persuaded into, even if that persuasion is something less than violence.

There is something abhorrent in the idea of seeking to persuade lesbians that they should have sex with people they are not sexually attracted to by definition. Indeed, there is something utterly vile in the idea that (a) women should not have boundaries (b) those boundaries should be breached if that is what is necessary to validate someone else's feelings and (c) if you choose to say no you are somehow being phobic or bigoted

What part of "No means No" is hard to understand. I am old enough to remember when if you didn't want to have sex with a man they would accuse you of being a lesbian and if you were a lesbian men would tell you that all you needed was a good screw from them to sort it out. We are now seeing some revolting old wine in new bottles, sadly.

Women - whether lesbians or straight - have no obligation to have sex with anyone and don't need to justify this either. Seminars to "persuade" them is the mentality of the rapist.

Transgender people deserve consideration but the activist movement has got itself into a very dark place when it comes out with this sort of stuff and is doing genuine transgender people no good at all.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Good morning all. Horrendous news from Texas.

But, as I always say, you get what you vote for.

And Americans vote time and time and time again to protect the gun rights of lunatics over the rights of children my daughter's age not to be shot to death in their classroom.

America is a third world country on a whole stack of measures, and the voters are only just getting started making it into Gilead.

We had one mass school shooting. We reacted in horror and passed laws so strict that chances of a repeat are very very small. America suffers them on a regular basis, smears the parents who then campaign for sanity, and suggests that primary school teachers arm themselves to defend their classroom. At least those are the politicians they vote for. And you get what you vote for.

So whilst I can barely comprehend what the parents are going through, there is a simple solution for Americans who don't want to suffer their kids being murdered at school or their horrendous metrics on various health and education metrics: leave. Move to civilisation and leave the savages to it.

Sky have just announced that the children killed were between 7 and 10, the same ages as two of our grandchildren who go to the same school

I felt a tear run down my face, and just cannot comprehend the horror for the parents who may well have lost more than one sibling

The US should be utterly ashamed of itself and those Republicans still claiming gun rights this morning have the blood of innocent children on their hands

Mrs RP has left for her school. To supervise primary age special educational needs kids. Risk of her getting shot and killed at work is practically zero. My 10 year old daughter is about to walk to her school. Risk of her getting shot and killed in class is practically zero.

I am a very VERY unhappy man this morning. I can't comprehend what those poor people are going through. But again, this is the society they all participate in. And what a society it is!

I'm not sure America can be saved. But if we're not talking about the shitkickers who want to arm Mrs RP or the healthcare companies and their vassals or the people who vote to defund education or the propagandists who tell people how America is the greatest country in the world despite its ever worsening outcomes in health and education and crime, if you look past those bastards there are wonderful people.

So as their country can't be saved there is only one safe route - leave. Think how enriched this country would be if the families of the poor murdered kids had emigrated here. Hard working, industrious decent people.

There is soooo much wrong with this country and yet we have the basics right. We should be offering migration packages to people to flee to civlilisation. Save sane Americans and leave the rest of it for Gilead.

Emotions are running high, but suggesting Americans leave their country is not the answer,

Change has to come from within, Americans need to grow a backbone and act

Too many believe that more harm is stopped by gun ownership, than isn't. Its probably true that we don't hear over here about the robberies stopped because another customer had a gun, or the deterrence effects of thinking someone might have a gun.
It seems so simple to us - remove guns from society, but to many in the states gun ownership is a foundation myth of the nation. They took up arms to throw out the oppressor (us).

Leon said:

kjh said:

Leon said:

I wonder if other countries have institutions that mirror gun law in the USA and the NHS in the UK. Things that are bizarrely worshipped and preserved, even though many in their hearts know that they are pernicious, stupid, deformed, silly, and which make outsiders say WTF - yet which also seem insusceptible to significant reform due to the worship thing

In the EU I suggest it is, er, the EU

You really need to seek help with your EU addiction problems. You need to let it go. You are well travelled so you should know better. On my trips to Europe, by the nature of the type of trips, I meet and chat to lots of ordinary people and with the exception of one trip the EU was never mentioned. There is no worship, it just is. The one trip that was different was after we left and people asked lots of questions.

It is the political elite in the EU which worships the EU, and yes, it warps their societies. The EU is fundamentally undemocratic and therefore costly in spirit (and maybe in cash), yet seems incapable of serious reform, just like the 2nd Amendment and the NHS

Weirdly though one of most passionate of EU advocates, Guy Verhofstadt, is unlike many other elites willing to criticise aspects of it. Because he wants it to improve.

CarlottaVance said:

The country’s most senior civil servant, the Cabinet Secretary Simon Case, is not resigning and will not be sacked.

Mr Case and the Prime Minister spoke briefly this morning.

https://twitter.com/ChrisMasonBBC/status/1529378083006038016

I got the top job in my early 40s, Prime Minister, I'm ambitious too. You think I'll go quietly?

HYUFD said:

New Yougov Scottish independence poll has No 55% Yes 45%. So despite Brexit and 8 years of Sturgeon as FM on this poll still zero change from 2014

https://twitter.com/scotlandinunion/status/1529363820002562048?s=20&t=kK4RfHSnCq6WROPDuOb5TA

This does raise the question of whether Boris or someone will one day call the SNP's bluff and give them the Ref2 they claim to want but don't. The SNP's fear is really quite unusual: they don't want Ref2, (a) because they might lose it and (b) because they might win it.

TOPPING said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Eighteen dead children. At a fucking primary school.

And this will just be another one of the fucking list, another memory, before long.

It makes me so angry.

Fuck. King. Hell.

Just saw the news. Horrific and as you say not going to move the needle on much at all in terms of stopping future events.

I'm in Ukraine, a warzone. Russian attacks are constant, airstrikes hit Ukrainian cities overnight. But the first two Ukrainians I saw when I woke up today asked me about the Texas elementary school shooting where a gunman killed 19 children. "Why? How?"
https://mobile.twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1529322736367063042

RochdalePioneers said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Good morning all. Horrendous news from Texas.

But, as I always say, you get what you vote for.

And Americans vote time and time and time again to protect the gun rights of lunatics over the rights of children my daughter's age not to be shot to death in their classroom.

America is a third world country on a whole stack of measures, and the voters are only just getting started making it into Gilead.

We had one mass school shooting. We reacted in horror and passed laws so strict that chances of a repeat are very very small. America suffers them on a regular basis, smears the parents who then campaign for sanity, and suggests that primary school teachers arm themselves to defend their classroom. At least those are the politicians they vote for. And you get what you vote for.

So whilst I can barely comprehend what the parents are going through, there is a simple solution for Americans who don't want to suffer their kids being murdered at school or their horrendous metrics on various health and education metrics: leave. Move to civilisation and leave the savages to it.

Sky have just announced that the children killed were between 7 and 10, the same ages as two of our grandchildren who go to the same school

I felt a tear run down my face, and just cannot comprehend the horror for the parents who may well have lost more than one sibling

The US should be utterly ashamed of itself and those Republicans still claiming gun rights this morning have the blood of innocent children on their hands

Mrs RP has left for her school. To supervise primary age special educational needs kids. Risk of her getting shot and killed at work is practically zero. My 10 year old daughter is about to walk to her school. Risk of her getting shot and killed in class is practically zero…

And shooting is the leading cause of childhood death in the US.

Cyclefree said:

CarlottaVance said:

JosiasJessop said:

ydoethur said:

JosiasJessop said:

CarlottaVance said:

Annoying all the right people:

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2022/may/25/ricky-gervais-netflix-special-condemned-by-lgbtq-groups-for-anti-trans-rants-masquerading-as-jokes

The clip is NSFW:

https://youtu.be/yI6qvQtrTU8

Not particularly funny (like much of Gervais' stuff). The sort of sad stuff some comedians were doing in the 1970s and 1980s against gay people, pre-Internet.

Find a group who are small and cannot answer back. Poke fun at them and say they're a danger.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the trans debate, or of Ricky Gervais’ sense of humour (such as it is) it’s not really accurate to say they ‘cannot answer back.’

That's an issue I have - few of the people being most screechingly pro-trans (*) appear to be trans people. Trans rights increasingly appear to be a battleground for people with no real interests in what is right for trans people. It's just a reason for an argument.

(*) Hopefully I'm not 'screechingly' pro-trans myself.

The problematic behaviour is very rarely from Trans people themselves but from their “Allies” - typically proponents of gender theory (TLDR “gender not sex is what matters”) and more often than not, natal males. Add to that institutional capture of Stonewall who worried they had run out of causes when gay marriage was legalised and some very questionable medical practices by Tavistock/Mermaids (see Cass review) and we have a fine old mess. The issue is that the marginalised in this “debate” are not a very small minority, but slightly over half the population - women.

Rather more concerning that Gervais's comedy act (I understand he was using actual quotes of things said by TRA activists and if they do not like these being quoted back at them, they might reflect on why that might be) is a statement by a QC yesterday in the Bailey Employment Tribunal case.

The cross examination was about a seminar about how to overcome the "cotton ceiling" ie how to persuade lesbians that they should have sex with transwomen who still had male bodies. The QC (from the Chambers which is being sued) stated -

"You can persuade a lesbian that she might want to - that she could want to - have sex with a trans woman in a way that was not coercive."

Unfortunately, this does not reflect the law - which you'd have thought a QC who does rape cases - would know. The ECHR has ruled that any behaviour which seeks to negate or override a lack of consent to sex may be deemed coercive and that includes "persuasion". In short, sexual autonomy requires consent to be fully and freely given not something you should be persuaded into, even if that persuasion is something less than violence.

There is something abhorrent in the idea of seeking to persuade lesbians that they should have sex with people they are not sexually attracted to by definition. Indeed, there is something utterly vile in the idea that (a) women should not have boundaries (b) those boundaries should be breached if that is what is necessary to validate someone else's feelings and (c) if you choose to say no you are somehow being phobic or bigoted

What part of "No means No" is hard to understand. I am old enough to remember when if you didn't want to have sex with a man they would accuse you of being a lesbian and if you were a lesbian men would tell you that all you needed was a good screw from them to sort it out. We are now seeing some revolting old wine in new bottles, sadly.

Women - whether lesbians or straight - have no obligation to have sex with anyone and don't need to justify this either. Seminars to "persuade" them is the mentality of the rapist.

Transgender people deserve consideration but the activist movement has got itself into a very dark place when it comes out with this sort of stuff and is doing genuine transgender people no good at all.

Mysogny and bigotry is turning out to be a lot more creative than I had anticipated.

Seminars on persuading people to have sex with someone they don't want to sounds like something from a parody dystopia.

.

OnlyLivingBoy said:

MrEd said:

malcolmg said:

kle4 said:

JosiasJessop said:

CarlottaVance said:

Annoying all the right people:

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2022/may/25/ricky-gervais-netflix-special-condemned-by-lgbtq-groups-for-anti-trans-rants-masquerading-as-jokes

The clip is NSFW:

https://youtu.be/yI6qvQtrTU8

Not particularly funny (like much of Gervais' stuff). The sort of sad stuff some comedians were doing in the 1970s and 1980s against gay people, pre-Internet.

Find a group who are small and cannot answer back. Poke fun at them and say they're a danger.

Gervais has never been very funny. I'm 100% sure people will be massively overreacting though.

A million times better than Cordon though who for some reason is worshipped in England. He is the unfunniest man in the world apart from that absolute balloon Jimmy Carr who gives him a run for his money.

Top comment Malc. How Corden is so popular is up there with the Bermuda Triangle as one of life’s great mysteries. Carr is just a smug supercilious hypocritical c*nt.

I can't stand Jimmy Carr but I like James Corden. He is a brilliantly funny stage actor, I saw him in One Man Two Guvnors at the National Theatre years ago and his comic timing was amazing. Probably the funniest thing I have ever seen on stage (and I go to the Greenwich Panto every Christmas so this is a high bar).

I don’t find either Gervais or Corden funny at all as comedians, but you’re right that the latter is a gifted comic actor, unlike the former.

Carnyx said:

kle4 said:

Carnyx said:

Theuniondivvie said:

CarlottaVance said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Leon said:

I wonder if other countries have institutions that mirror gun law in the USA and the NHS in the UK. Things that are bizarrely worshipped and preserved, even though many in their hearts know that they are pernicious, stupid, deformed, silly, and which make outsiders say WTF - yet which also seem insusceptible to significant reform due to the worship thing

In the EU I suggest it is, er, the EU

The EU isn’t a country of course.

Countries can have more than one thing that are bizarrely worshipped and preserved.

Indeed.

That’s like me saying that countless Orange marches are an official arm of the propaganda op known as the UK.

If you insist.

Also, very snowflakey to get all sarky about folk walking through with their self-funded Saltires briefly , but at the same time hypersensitive about any comment on regimented arrays of UJs suspended for miles of London roads at our taxes' expense.

Both comments seemed pretty snowflakey to me. I mean, sure, the context was different in the two examples but it was still two posters getting worked up about flags (though I'm sure the getting worked up part will be strenuously denied). On the spectrum of snowflakeness they might not be on the exact same point but not that far apart either.

The original tweet did express the wish for the UJ display to be permanent, remember ...

It's the UF innit? Only the Union Jack when it's on a boat.

Dura_Ace said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Change has to come from within, Americans need to grow a backbone and act

The US has a more vibrant and recent history of resisting tyranny than the UK. The guns are there for use against the government. The British have just meekly ceded a monopoly on violence to the state.

Orgreave could not have happened in Kentucky.

Waco, for example, suggests you’re wrong.

Luckyguy1983 said:

JosiasJessop said:

IshmaelZ said:

JosiasJessop said:

IshmaelZ said:

Heathener said:

CarlottaVance said:

JosiasJessop said:

CarlottaVance said:

Annoying all the right people:

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2022/may/25/ricky-gervais-netflix-special-condemned-by-lgbtq-groups-for-anti-trans-rants-masquerading-as-jokes

The clip is NSFW:

https://youtu.be/yI6qvQtrTU8

Find a group who are small and cannot answer back. Poke fun at them and say they're a danger.

Tell that to the women who have been hounded from their jobs or physically attacked.

https://reduxx.info/uk-woman-assaulted-by-trans-activists-at-feminist-event/

Vanishingly rare examples and laws should not be built around aberrations or those who abuse the system.

The culture wars on this topic are revolting.

The vast majority of trans people, whether that's male to female, female to male, or varieties of non-binary are peaceful.

Live and let live. And the rest of us get on with our lives.

That's exactly what laws should be built around, surely. Fred West and Jimmy Savile were pretty unusual people.

I have never encountered anyone who was genuinely anti-trans. Perhaps some US Christians are because it's a perversion of God's handiwork? What we usually get is right on numpties who leap on any suggestion that safeguards are needed for fakers and edge cases with cries of "he said Jehovah! He said jehovah!"

I have encountered people who are genuinely anti-trans. They were working with people who were trans.

Awks.

But that's probably because most people rarely meet a trans person (or realise they've met one...) for such feelings to out.

"Safeguards are needed."

Gay men have raped other men in toilets. Where are the safeguard for that? None are needed, because a) it would trample on the rights of the massive majority of gay men who do not behave in such an awful manner, b) it is thankfully rare, and c) because it is unenforceable.

And before anyone says it does not happen:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-61386625
https://www.mylondon.news/news/east-london-news/man-raped-toilets-barking-station-17902126
etc, etc.

A truly and utterly imbecilic point. Do you think banning alcohol sales to under 18s is pointless and ineffective because adults drink irresponsibly too? Or we shouldn't restrict gun sales because knives and hammers are available as murder weapons? We should have no criminal records checks on wannabe scoutmasters because the massive majority of them are entirely praiseworthy individuals? Or that a ban on people with dicks in ladies loos is in some way unenforceable?

It really isn't imbecilic.

Let's take your last line. How do you 'enforce' people with dicks not going into ladies' loos? How do you check? Does someone stand outside checking people when they go in? Does Mrs J have to 'prove' she's a woman before she enters the hallowed sanctum?

How do you enforce it?

If someone commits abuse, prosecute them. Have an environment where victims can come forward and their claims will be investigated (we often fall at this fence).

And people transitioning need to live as their new 'gender' for two years. If you're MtoF, that involves dressing and living as a woman for two years. And yes, using women's loos.

Persons transitioning could use disabled facilities, which are gender neutral and admit one person.

An increasing number of bathrooms here in the US are 100% stalls and unisex, which seems to eliminate the problem altogether.

(Although it can result in men waiting longer to pee.)