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A jeu d’esprit – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited June 3 in General
imageA jeu d’esprit – politicalbetting.com

So many opinions. So few facts. In the spirit so ably demonstrated by our PM over his life, let’s apply a little fiction to our current politics.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 72,062
    BBC News - FBI foiled terror plot to kill George W Bush

    The suspect, a resident of Ohio, allegedly sought to have Iraqi operatives smuggled into the US from Mexico for the operation.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-61569650
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 72,062
    Clumsy....

    The last man to hold the post was Yevgeny Zinichev, also an ex-Putin guard, who died falling down a 90ft waterfall

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10849793/Putin-promotes-bodyguard-Emergencies-Minister-predecessor-fell-death-90ft-waterfall.html
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 33,420
    Vanity Fair indeed @Cyclefree, but are we headed to the Slough of Despond?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 50,178

    Clumsy....

    The last man to hold the post was Yevgeny Zinichev, also an ex-Putin guard, who died falling down a 90ft waterfall

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10849793/Putin-promotes-bodyguard-Emergencies-Minister-predecessor-fell-death-90ft-waterfall.html

    Was it from all the nonsense Putin spouted?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 24,114

    MattW said:

    So: choice time. Should I take my son (8 years old) to Alton Towers for two days or York for three?

    He's never been to either, but I've been to both many times.

    York, he'll love The Shambles.

    Oh and Jorvik.
    Aren't you into trains?

    National Railway Museum? There are also things like day trips on a steam train form there.
    I'm seriously into trains :)
    FPT if I may for @JosiasJessop - some ideas

    1. walk the circuit of the wall walk around the town walls (and there is a nice model and train shop at the north gate if that helps) (there are two circuits, incomplete, one north and one sout of the river)
    2. Yorkshire Museum - nice fossils and roman remains
    3. https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/visit/places/york-cold-war-bunker/ - not been but intend to ...
    4. https://www.visityork.org/business-directory/yorkshire-air-museum - ditto ...
    5. York Castle on a motte

  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 6,496
    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    So: choice time. Should I take my son (8 years old) to Alton Towers for two days or York for three?

    He's never been to either, but I've been to both many times.

    York, he'll love The Shambles.

    Oh and Jorvik.
    Aren't you into trains?

    National Railway Museum? There are also things like day trips on a steam train form there.
    I'm seriously into trains :)
    FPT if I may for @JosiasJessop - some ideas

    1. walk the circuit of the wall walk around the town walls (and there is a nice model and train shop at the north gate if that helps) (there are two circuits, incomplete, one north and one sout of the river)
    2. Yorkshire Museum - nice fossils and roman remains
    3. https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/visit/places/york-cold-war-bunker/ - not been but intend to ...
    4. https://www.visityork.org/business-directory/yorkshire-air-museum - ditto ...
    5. York Castle on a motte

    Tell the 8 yr old you're going to the The Minster. It's a monster of a building. Also, Guy Fawkes, his birthplace nearby. And Dick Turpin; well, his grave anyway.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,088
    geoffw said:

    Phillips P. OBrien

    The thing that seems strange about all the comments saying pressure must be put on Ukraine to give up territory or Putin must be given an off ramp, etc, is that it’s all unnecessary. If the different governments want to make their views known to the Ukr govt, they can...

    Saying it out loud only puts more pressure on Ukr and gives more hope to Putin. So why do it? I can’t think of one thing it gains but publicity and point scoring. Far better to provide what aid to Ukr you want, quietly let your position be known, and then step back.

    I hardly think they need help to realise it's an option anyway, albeit one they would really rather not pursue. They aren't stupid, but even if they think they have to go that way if things turn badly, it probably wouldn't help the morale of their defence, vital to their bargaining position, to preannouce they would be willing to give up the Donbas.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 24,114
    geoffw said:

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    So: choice time. Should I take my son (8 years old) to Alton Towers for two days or York for three?

    He's never been to either, but I've been to both many times.

    York, he'll love The Shambles.

    Oh and Jorvik.
    Aren't you into trains?

    National Railway Museum? There are also things like day trips on a steam train form there.
    I'm seriously into trains :)
    FPT if I may for @JosiasJessop - some ideas

    1. walk the circuit of the wall walk around the town walls (and there is a nice model and train shop at the north gate if that helps) (there are two circuits, incomplete, one north and one sout of the river)
    2. Yorkshire Museum - nice fossils and roman remains
    3. https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/visit/places/york-cold-war-bunker/ - not been but intend to ...
    4. https://www.visityork.org/business-directory/yorkshire-air-museum - ditto ...
    5. York Castle on a motte

    Tell the 8 yr old you're going to the The Minster. It's a monster of a building. Also, Guy Fawkes, his birthplace nearby. And Dick Turpin; well, his grave anyway.

    Oh yes, the Minster. Basically just a modernised Roman Army HQ (it's still there in the basement).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,088
    I'm not familiar with Vanity Fair, could this be rewritten with a more familiary classic of equal significance, like The Animals of Farthing Wood? Truly topical with its themes of habitat destruction, and the controlling of one's baser instincts in service to the collective good.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 52,574

    Pippa Crerar
    @PippaCrerar
    EXCL: Damning new Partygate photo of No 10 gathering where staff told: “The bar is open".

    Pippa Crerar
    @PippaCrerar
    ·
    1h
    Replying to
    @PippaCrerar
    My understanding is that neither Sue Gray nor the Met police have investigated this boozy do - even though 30-40 staff were present and WhatsApp messages show it was pre-planned.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 6,496
    edited May 24
    deleted - I missed the point
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,088
    geoffw said:

    kle4 said:

    geoffw said:

    Phillips P. OBrien

    The thing that seems strange about all the comments saying pressure must be put on Ukraine to give up territory or Putin must be given an off ramp, etc, is that it’s all unnecessary. If the different governments want to make their views known to the Ukr govt, they can...

    Saying it out loud only puts more pressure on Ukr and gives more hope to Putin. So why do it? I can’t think of one thing it gains but publicity and point scoring. Far better to provide what aid to Ukr you want, quietly let your position be known, and then step back.

    I hardly think they need help to realise it's an option anyway, albeit one they would really rather not pursue. They aren't stupid, but even if they think they have to go that way if things turn badly, it probably wouldn't help the morale of their defence, vital to their bargaining position, to preannouce they would be willing to give up the Donbas.
    You've missed O'Brien's point. These supposedly helpful pieces of advice, given publicly, are decidely unhelpful to the Ukrainians.

    I know that was the point, I was emphasising that point by saying even Ukraine acknowledged that advice privately, doing so publicly would be no help, so as he says being told it publicly doesn't help.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 6,496
    kle4 said:

    geoffw said:

    kle4 said:

    geoffw said:

    Phillips P. OBrien

    The thing that seems strange about all the comments saying pressure must be put on Ukraine to give up territory or Putin must be given an off ramp, etc, is that it’s all unnecessary. If the different governments want to make their views known to the Ukr govt, they can...

    Saying it out loud only puts more pressure on Ukr and gives more hope to Putin. So why do it? I can’t think of one thing it gains but publicity and point scoring. Far better to provide what aid to Ukr you want, quietly let your position be known, and then step back.

    I hardly think they need help to realise it's an option anyway, albeit one they would really rather not pursue. They aren't stupid, but even if they think they have to go that way if things turn badly, it probably wouldn't help the morale of their defence, vital to their bargaining position, to preannouce they would be willing to give up the Donbas.
    You've missed O'Brien's point. These supposedly helpful pieces of advice, given publicly, are decidely unhelpful to the Ukrainians.

    I know that was the point, I was emphasising that point by saying even Ukraine acknowledged that advice privately, doing so publicly would be no help, so as he says being told it publicly doesn't help.
    Yeah, you got back in too quick to see that I'd retracted.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 57,430


    Pippa Crerar
    @PippaCrerar
    EXCL: Damning new Partygate photo of No 10 gathering where staff told: “The bar is open".

    Pippa Crerar
    @PippaCrerar
    ·
    1h
    Replying to
    @PippaCrerar
    My understanding is that neither Sue Gray nor the Met police have investigated this boozy do - even though 30-40 staff were present and WhatsApp messages show it was pre-planned.

    What's that, another police investigation to delay the report further?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,088
    RobD said:


    Pippa Crerar
    @PippaCrerar
    EXCL: Damning new Partygate photo of No 10 gathering where staff told: “The bar is open".

    Pippa Crerar
    @PippaCrerar
    ·
    1h
    Replying to
    @PippaCrerar
    My understanding is that neither Sue Gray nor the Met police have investigated this boozy do - even though 30-40 staff were present and WhatsApp messages show it was pre-planned.

    What's that, another police investigation to delay the report further?
    Such grand scheming - cut back resources, but also ensure incompetent leadership of what remains in the police, then act in such a way that they must look into you but due to said incompetence they just waste their time and have to engage in endless delays, meaning your internal opponents at least always have a reason to be put off.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 31,148
    kle4 said:

    I'm not familiar with Vanity Fair, could this be rewritten with a more familiary classic of equal significance, like The Animals of Farthing Wood? Truly topical with its themes of habitat destruction, and the controlling of one's baser instincts in service to the collective good.

    Oh gosh, The Animals of Farthing Wood! That's essentially A Game of Thrones for children. The level of carnage is horrific.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,088
    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    I'm not familiar with Vanity Fair, could this be rewritten with a more familiary classic of equal significance, like The Animals of Farthing Wood? Truly topical with its themes of habitat destruction, and the controlling of one's baser instincts in service to the collective good.

    Oh gosh, The Animals of Farthing Wood! That's essentially A Game of Thrones for children. The level of carnage is horrific.
    I’ve rewatched The Animals of Farthing Wood. Here’s the horrific casualty list in full. Brace yourselves... (1/13)

    https://twitter.com/bilbo983/status/957622846632742912?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^957622846632742912|twgr^|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/gruesome-body-count-shows-animals-11933343

    If memory serves the first book ends with the animals engaging in an impromptu piss up, so it truly for our time.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,215
    The America news coming in now is desperately sad. But since nothing changed since Sandy Hook, it is not shocking.

    I love America - but it is deeply flawed
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 6,398
    Taz said:

    Boris Johnson is a fucking liar, he denied it at the time, but I knew he was lying.

    Revealed: government did encourage Premier League to approve Newcastle takeover

    Extensive efforts made to encourage Saudi-led buyout

    Prime minister has said government had no role at any point


    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/24/government-did-encourage-premier-league-to-approve-saudi-newcastle-takeover

    That won’t lose him any votes north of the Tyne. He can forget the Sunderland seats now.
    Surely the point is, what did he get from the Saudis for being their servant on this?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 52,574

    The America news coming in now is desperately sad. But since nothing changed since Sandy Hook, it is not shocking.

    I love America - but it is deeply flawed

    Seems to happen every month or so. Incredible. But this is just totally normal for America because they have no interest in taking guns out of society.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 22,662
    Foxy said:

    Vanity Fair indeed @Cyclefree, but are we headed to the Slough of Despond?

    Who can say? Probably.
    kle4 said:

    I'm not familiar with Vanity Fair, could this be rewritten with a more familiary classic of equal significance, like The Animals of Farthing Wood? Truly topical with its themes of habitat destruction, and the controlling of one's baser instincts in service to the collective good.


    It's a great novel. A must read. There is a drama interpretation of it on iPlayer. But it's the cynical sardonic and wonderfully funny authorial voice which really makes it. We need a Vanity Fair for our times.

  • GarethoftheVale2GarethoftheVale2 Posts: 1,765
    RobD said:


    Pippa Crerar
    @PippaCrerar
    EXCL: Damning new Partygate photo of No 10 gathering where staff told: “The bar is open".

    Pippa Crerar
    @PippaCrerar
    ·
    1h
    Replying to
    @PippaCrerar
    My understanding is that neither Sue Gray nor the Met police have investigated this boozy do - even though 30-40 staff were present and WhatsApp messages show it was pre-planned.

    What's that, another police investigation to delay the report further?
    They showed that pic on ITV - no faces. Could be anywhere
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 1,883
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-61570461

    Can't really describe how angry this article makes me.

    "Cookie didn't attack - a tragic accident"

    "Passive dog"

    Fuck off. If it can kill a man with a bite to the leg it would make short work of someone's toddler.

    I'm well up for zero-tolerance on any dog that bites anyone. Should be put down immediately, and the owners banned from keeping them.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 57,430

    RobD said:


    Pippa Crerar
    @PippaCrerar
    EXCL: Damning new Partygate photo of No 10 gathering where staff told: “The bar is open".

    Pippa Crerar
    @PippaCrerar
    ·
    1h
    Replying to
    @PippaCrerar
    My understanding is that neither Sue Gray nor the Met police have investigated this boozy do - even though 30-40 staff were present and WhatsApp messages show it was pre-planned.

    What's that, another police investigation to delay the report further?
    They showed that pic on ITV - no faces. Could be anywhere
    Well I doubt they are using a photo that isn't in No 10, or of random strangers. Unless you think they are just making it up?
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 1,701
    Sorry to say but some Americans care more for their guns than their children.


  • RobDRobD Posts: 57,430
    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, PB'ers this is my 200th header.

    Since 2016.

    Doesn't the time fly when you're having fun ......

    Congratulations!
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 7,449
    I haven't read Vanity Fair, and after this header I never will
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 17,419
    Thoroughly enjoyable thread if very tenuous. I've only ever seen the TV and film adaptations.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 52,574
    Uvalde shooting is mainly v young kids. At least a dozen.

    America's Dunblane?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 22,723
    Nope. Never read it. Nor seen it on TV, so meaningless to me.
    I'm sure it's good, but it might as well be in Urdu for me.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 57,430

    Uvalde shooting is mainly v young kids. At least a dozen.

    America's Dunblane?

    Na, they've had loads of school shootings before. I guess it doesn't bother them all that much.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,215
    nico679 said:

    Sorry to say but some Americans care more for their guns than their children.


    No doubt they’ll say the issue will be mental health related. Nothing to do with the easy access to assault weapons, which I really can’t comprehend
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 22,723
    Report on Xinjiang on BBC.
    Unfortunately, all I hear is the multiple different incorrect pronunciations. Didn't the Beeb used to have a special department for this?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 100,923
    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, PB'ers this is my 200th header.

    Since 2016.

    Doesn't the time fly when you're having fun ......

    The most readable and amusing one you have yet done, I couldn't tell it was yours until the end
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 7,449
    Eabhal said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-61570461

    Can't really describe how angry this article makes me.

    "Cookie didn't attack - a tragic accident"

    "Passive dog"

    Fuck off. If it can kill a man with a bite to the leg it would make short work of someone's toddler.

    I'm well up for zero-tolerance on any dog that bites anyone. Should be put down immediately, and the owners banned from keeping them.

    Guns is the answer. Yeee fucking haww.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 22,723
    18 yo male Salvador Ramos shooter dead.
    14 kids and 1 teacher dead.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 1,701
    If only those kids were all carrying guns will be the NRA response .

    We’ll hear the thoughts and prayers wheeled out and lots of footage of vigils and candles and it will all be forgotten in a few days and then rinse and repeat .
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 22,723
    nico679 said:

    If only those kids were all carrying guns will be the NRA response .

    We’ll hear the thoughts and prayers wheeled out and lots of footage of vigils and candles and it will all be forgotten in a few days and then rinse and repeat .

    Doubtless "false flag" will make an appearance in a while.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 41,174
    Eabhal said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-61570461

    Can't really describe how angry this article makes me.

    "Cookie didn't attack - a tragic accident"

    "Passive dog"

    Fuck off. If it can kill a man with a bite to the leg it would make short work of someone's toddler.

    I'm well up for zero-tolerance on any dog that bites anyone. Should be put down immediately, and the owners banned from keeping them.

    The name "Cookie" is a bit incongruous for a dog - sorry an American Bully - that looks like this:

    image
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 1,883

    Uvalde shooting is mainly v young kids. At least a dozen.

    America's Dunblane?

    Nah this is pretty tame compared to the New Town one.

    The Governor was a sick fuck casting doubt on the use of an assault rifle (even if one wasn't used). Don't politicise it immediately.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 18,315
    If 18 year olds can't drink alcohol in the United States they certainly shouldn't be allowed to own guns.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 6,483
    The photo of Boris that several of the papers are using...

    https://www.tomorrowspapers.co.uk/

    Glowering Boris as he tightens his tie.

    It's not the best, is it?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 22,723

    Eabhal said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-61570461

    Can't really describe how angry this article makes me.

    "Cookie didn't attack - a tragic accident"

    "Passive dog"

    Fuck off. If it can kill a man with a bite to the leg it would make short work of someone's toddler.

    I'm well up for zero-tolerance on any dog that bites anyone. Should be put down immediately, and the owners banned from keeping them.

    The name "Cookie" is a bit incongruous for a dog - sorry an American Bully - that looks like this:

    image
    Wow.
    I never imagined he looked like that!
    Writes well for a dog.
  • glwglw Posts: 8,406

    The America news coming in now is desperately sad. But since nothing changed since Sandy Hook, it is not shocking.

    I love America - but it is deeply flawed

    After the Aurora shooting, and nothing happening, I wondered if something like Dunblane might shock America into action. Sandy Hook showed that not to be the case.

    I honestly wonder if even something on the scale of Beslan would make a difference. My hunch now is that it wouldn't. America would tolerate hundreds killed in a shooting, the Las Vegas shooting had hundreds injured and 60 deaths, and that was soon forgotten about.

    There doesn't seem to be anything that will change America's love of guns.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 41,202
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    18 yo male Salvador Ramos shooter dead.
    14 kids and 1 teacher dead.

    Governor Abbott says it is "incomprehensible".
    I've an idea off the top of my head which may aid his comprehension, if that would help?
    What he really means is that it’s a price he and his ilk are prepared to pay.
    Regularly.

    That is indeed incomprehensible.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 102,739
    Eabhal said:

    Uvalde shooting is mainly v young kids. At least a dozen.

    America's Dunblane?

    Nah this is pretty tame compared to the New Town one.

    The Governor was a sick fuck casting doubt on the use of an assault rifle (even if one wasn't used). Don't politicise it immediately.
    This tweet from 2015 is getting quite the airing.


  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 41,202
    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, PB'ers this is my 200th header.

    Since 2016.

    Doesn't the time fly when you're having fun ......

    It was excellent.
    And weren’t they all ?

    Though I have to say Becky is a more entertaining, even appealing character than is Boris.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 24,114
    dixiedean said:

    Eabhal said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-61570461

    Can't really describe how angry this article makes me.

    "Cookie didn't attack - a tragic accident"

    "Passive dog"

    Fuck off. If it can kill a man with a bite to the leg it would make short work of someone's toddler.

    I'm well up for zero-tolerance on any dog that bites anyone. Should be put down immediately, and the owners banned from keeping them.

    The name "Cookie" is a bit incongruous for a dog - sorry an American Bully - that looks like this:

    image
    Wow.
    I never imagined he looked like that!
    Writes well for a dog.
    As Dr Johnson would say, it's astounding he writes at all. Unless he has an extra large keyboard with keys the size of dog biscuits.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 52,574
    “There’s no words to describe how horrific this is,” said Senator John Cornyn, Republican of Texas, speaking to reporters on Capitol Hill. He added, “We’re still trying to get a clear picture of what happened and what the motivation was.”

    NY Times.

    Stop giving the mentally ill loads of guns you twats.

  • glwglw Posts: 8,406
    edited May 24
    dixiedean said:

    nico679 said:

    If only those kids were all carrying guns will be the NRA response .

    We’ll hear the thoughts and prayers wheeled out and lots of footage of vigils and candles and it will all be forgotten in a few days and then rinse and repeat .

    Doubtless "false flag" will make an appearance in a while.
    The first such claims have already been made I read them shortly after seeing the news on the BBC.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 41,202
    Roughly 200 decomposing bodies of killed civilians were found under rubble of a Mariupol high rise - mayor Andriushchenko

    For official free burial ppl must record video saying 🇺🇦Army killed their relatives, not Russia. Bodies pile up in street.

    https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1529205600269357058
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 52,574
    Even Telegraph now admitting a windfall tax this week is a dead cat.

  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 7,449
    glw said:

    The America news coming in now is desperately sad. But since nothing changed since Sandy Hook, it is not shocking.

    I love America - but it is deeply flawed

    After the Aurora shooting, and nothing happening, I wondered if something like Dunblane might shock America into action. Sandy Hook showed that not to be the case.

    I honestly wonder if even something on the scale of Beslan would make a difference. My hunch now is that it wouldn't. America would tolerate hundreds killed in a shooting, the Las Vegas shooting had hundreds injured and 60 deaths, and that was soon forgotten about.

    There doesn't seem to be anything that will change America's love of guns.
    I mean, it was less than 5 years ago that 411 people were shot in a SINGLE incident in Las Vegas, and nobody even talks about it. America is a shithole country. Half the people are mad, and half the country are imbeciles.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,088

    Eabhal said:

    Uvalde shooting is mainly v young kids. At least a dozen.

    America's Dunblane?

    Nah this is pretty tame compared to the New Town one.

    The Governor was a sick fuck casting doubt on the use of an assault rifle (even if one wasn't used). Don't politicise it immediately.
    This tweet from 2015 is getting quite the airing.


    He will just say it is the wrong moment to be 'divisive'. Indeed, it is always the wrong time to do anything, as we've seen. The voters there seem happy to continue the situation indefinitely.

    Perhaps we could blame violent films or videogames though (they don't have those anywhere else, you see).
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 2,127
    geoffw said:

    Phillips P. OBrien

    The thing that seems strange about all the comments saying pressure must be put on Ukraine to give up territory or Putin must be given an off ramp, etc, is that it’s all unnecessary. If the different governments want to make their views known to the Ukr govt, they can...

    Saying it out loud only puts more pressure on Ukr and gives more hope to Putin. So why do it? I can’t think of one thing it gains but publicity and point scoring. Far better to provide what aid to Ukr you want, quietly let your position be known, and then step back.

    I don’t think it’s the governments saying this. I think it’s the likes of Schroeder. (“Senior figures”). They have lost but are still trying to influence the debate in Russia’s favour
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 22,723
    Grades 2-4. So 7, 8 and 9 yo on enrollment.
    Student at nearby High School. Also shot his grandmother.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 22,723
    glw said:

    dixiedean said:

    nico679 said:

    If only those kids were all carrying guns will be the NRA response .

    We’ll hear the thoughts and prayers wheeled out and lots of footage of vigils and candles and it will all be forgotten in a few days and then rinse and repeat .

    Doubtless "false flag" will make an appearance in a while.
    The first such claims have already been made I read them shortly after seeing the news on the BBC.
    Yeah. I almost said or has already.
    But thought that overly cynical. Obviously not.
    Have the parents been defamed yet?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,088

    geoffw said:

    Phillips P. OBrien

    The thing that seems strange about all the comments saying pressure must be put on Ukraine to give up territory or Putin must be given an off ramp, etc, is that it’s all unnecessary. If the different governments want to make their views known to the Ukr govt, they can...

    Saying it out loud only puts more pressure on Ukr and gives more hope to Putin. So why do it? I can’t think of one thing it gains but publicity and point scoring. Far better to provide what aid to Ukr you want, quietly let your position be known, and then step back.

    I don’t think it’s the governments saying this. I think it’s the likes of Schroeder. (“Senior figures”). They have lost but are still trying to influence the debate in Russia’s favour
    Probably true, but as the more pessimistic amongst us might suggest, as things go on the odds are some governments are going to be suggesting the same at some point. The unity has been predicted to be frayed even before now, and thankfully has not, and we hope it will not, but it's a possibility. My fear is if the Ukrainians do manage to go on the counter offensive it is then that the alliance will fray.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 19,375
    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, PB'ers this is my 200th header.

    Since 2016.

    Doesn't the time fly when you're having fun ......

    It was excellent.
    And weren’t they all ?

    Though I have to say Becky is a more entertaining, even appealing character than is Boris.
    Yes, great piece, Cyclefree. I must admit I've never read Vanity Fair (still time...) but I did enjoy the BBC series released as one of that glorious run of classic productions in the 70s (like the Forsyte Saga with Susan Hampshire).
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 9,631
    - “When will this play be played out?”

    About 30 minutes after the polling stations close.
  • glwglw Posts: 8,406
    Farooq said:

    I mean, it was less than 5 years ago that 411 people were shot in a SINGLE incident in Las Vegas, and nobody even talks about it.

    It's amazing how such a massive attack disappeared from the news so quickly. I didn't even seem to generate the kind of soul-searching articles you would get in the left leaning press in the US, as has happened with other shootings. With no clear motive or angle even the anti-gun people weren't that interested. It was treated more like a natural disaster.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 22,723
    glw said:

    Farooq said:

    I mean, it was less than 5 years ago that 411 people were shot in a SINGLE incident in Las Vegas, and nobody even talks about it.

    It's amazing how such a massive attack disappeared from the news so quickly. I didn't even seem to generate the kind of soul-searching articles you would get in the left leaning press in the US, as has happened with other shootings. With no clear motive or angle even the anti-gun people weren't that interested. It was treated more like a natural disaster.
    Must admit I'd forgotten all about it.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 16,923

    The photo of Boris that several of the papers are using...

    https://www.tomorrowspapers.co.uk/

    Glowering Boris as he tightens his tie.

    It's not the best, is it?

    Christ, he's an ugly fecker.

  • glwglw Posts: 8,406
    dixiedean said:

    glw said:

    dixiedean said:

    nico679 said:

    If only those kids were all carrying guns will be the NRA response .

    We’ll hear the thoughts and prayers wheeled out and lots of footage of vigils and candles and it will all be forgotten in a few days and then rinse and repeat .

    Doubtless "false flag" will make an appearance in a while.
    The first such claims have already been made I read them shortly after seeing the news on the BBC.
    Yeah. I almost said or has already.
    But thought that overly cynical. Obviously not.
    Have the parents been defamed yet?
    Probably, but it was mainly "false flag, they are coming to take our guns" as though the hundreds of other similar events in the past weren't already cause enough if that really was the intent of the US government.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 52,574

    The photo of Boris that several of the papers are using...

    https://www.tomorrowspapers.co.uk/

    Glowering Boris as he tightens his tie.

    It's not the best, is it?

    Christ, he's an ugly fecker.

    See the usual newspapers have gone with the 'look, squirrel' briefing of windfall tax "within days" to avoid further discussion of the law breaking piss-ups.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 7,449
    glw said:

    Farooq said:

    I mean, it was less than 5 years ago that 411 people were shot in a SINGLE incident in Las Vegas, and nobody even talks about it.

    It's amazing how such a massive attack disappeared from the news so quickly. I didn't even seem to generate the kind of soul-searching articles you would get in the left leaning press in the US, as has happened with other shootings. With no clear motive or angle even the anti-gun people weren't that interested. It was treated more like a natural disaster.
    I know right. It's just boggling. Hundreds and hundreds of people shot and everyone's just 🤷
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 46,234
    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, PB'ers this is my 200th header.

    Since 2016.

    Doesn't the time fly when you're having fun ......

    I find it flies, whether or not one is having fun.
  • https://www.dgwgo.com/dumfries-galloway-news/labour-snp-to-run-dumfries-council-a/

    Looks as though Carnyx was wrong about Labour not going into any coalition with the SNP interestingly.

    Some very interesting council formations.

    Does beg the question as to why the SNP have been able to form administrations as a minority on some councils like Midlothian and East Dunbartonshire (where they could in theory have been shut out) but not on others?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 72,062
    edited May 24
    glw said:

    Farooq said:

    I mean, it was less than 5 years ago that 411 people were shot in a SINGLE incident in Las Vegas, and nobody even talks about it.

    It's amazing how such a massive attack disappeared from the news so quickly. I didn't even seem to generate the kind of soul-searching articles you would get in the left leaning press in the US, as has happened with other shootings. With no clear motive or angle even the anti-gun people weren't that interested. It was treated more like a natural disaster.
    Its only a month since we had madman on the NY subway set off smoke bombs and shot 10...and a week since 10 shot in Buffalo supermarket....
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 1,701
    Perhaps Bozo should threaten to pull the help if people are mean to him and the letters go in !

    It’s amazing how just quickly the treasury can move when it’s a case of operation deflect the news from partygate .
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 22,723
    edited May 24
    Click on this. And scroll down the list.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States_in_2022

    Most of them don't even make the news here.
    My first night in the USA, San Diego 1982, there was a mass shooting on the local news in LA.
    It was not the top story. Seriously.realised I was not in UK.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 6,398
    What have I got wrong then. FT headline, Energy groups find it incredible Boris government is going to whack them with a windfall tax. The negatives economically, is companies made a loss during covid, but we still expect them to pour investment in to transform and revolutionise the energy sector where they can, despite creaming off their profits in a good year, and utterly undermining anyway of working well with them for the time being to change the energy sector as the government plans? Aside from this money is better invested by the companies themselves on research and development, and production capacity, it’s dividends are paid to pension funds. Oil businesses works in cyclical way, surely it’s a dangerous game for any government to go into the market claiming “your profits are underserved”, but particularly for the Conservatives whose policy principles are founded upon faith in the market? For example in terms of fairness are the energy companies the only ones in profit right now, short term though it may be for them, what about Amazon? Why pick on some making huge profit this year, not the others? This is the long-standing Conservative understanding of fairness Boris all over the shop government is about to rip up, whilst his PLP and party at large zip their mouths and don’t react.

    And the negatives politically, you think of how much money the Tory’s will spend in the next general election campaign trying to beat Labour, they might well take that money outside now and burn it for as much good it does them after gifting Starmer and his front bench a multi billion pound makeover by surrendering lock stock and barrel to his policy idea - it will make Starmer look like the idea’s man to rescue the public from cost of living nightmare and the true leader of the country, whilst the Tory’s merely dither short on solutions. Give him this one, he will just March into the commons with another five policies you have to go ahead with or be damned. If Tory’s go ahead with a windfall tax now after several months explaining why it’s wrong headed and a Starmer mistake, the government becomes Starmer’s bitch.

    So what’s in it for the government? Whatever it is, it’s got to be massively outweigh by the political, reputational, and economical negatives?

    Labour supporters replying to this post saying “but we love it” firstly have to admit there are some downsides to doing this I addressed in para 1, also of course you would say that, it’s matter of perspective, Conservatives and Capitalists shouldn’t think and behave like socialists should they, where’s the clear blue water then between Boris and the Labour Party?
  • glwglw Posts: 8,406

    Its only a month since we had madman on the NY subway set off smoke bombs and shot 10

    I really had forgotten that one. Mind you I'm 90% Ukraine news and 10% everything else recently.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673

    glw said:

    Farooq said:

    I mean, it was less than 5 years ago that 411 people were shot in a SINGLE incident in Las Vegas, and nobody even talks about it.

    It's amazing how such a massive attack disappeared from the news so quickly. I didn't even seem to generate the kind of soul-searching articles you would get in the left leaning press in the US, as has happened with other shootings. With no clear motive or angle even the anti-gun people weren't that interested. It was treated more like a natural disaster.
    Its only a month since we had madman on the NY subway set off smoke bombs and shot 10...and a week since 10 shot in Buffalo supermarket....
    It's just awful. The wilful refusal to believe in reality of the American right wing. The problem is that they stuck with religion far longer than the rest of the world so they never caught up on their critical thinking. They don't have the faculty to accept the scientific reality behind vaccines, or gun control, or climate change.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 33,420

    The photo of Boris that several of the papers are using...

    https://www.tomorrowspapers.co.uk/

    Glowering Boris as he tightens his tie.

    It's not the best, is it?

    No, when his mask slips the real nastiness shows.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 24,114

    https://www.dgwgo.com/dumfries-galloway-news/labour-snp-to-run-dumfries-council-a/

    Looks as though Carnyx was wrong about Labour not going into any coalition with the SNP interestingly.

    Some very interesting council formations.

    Does beg the question as to why the SNP have been able to form administrations as a minority on some councils like Midlothian and East Dunbartonshire (where they could in theory have been shut out) but not on others?

    That's a double surprise, as (a) Mr Sarwar was the one who was going on and on about going into coalitions with anyone at all, and (b) the tendency has consistently been Lab + Tory with some LD.

    The headline/URL is also misleading as it doesn't mention the Independent group who are also involved.

    The actual results are:

    Scottish Conservative and Unionist - 16
    Scottish National Party - 11
    Scottish Labour Party - 9
    Scottish Liberal Democrats - 1
    Independent - 6

    So one would have thought that Tory + Ind would be amply sufficient. But without that it would have to be Tory + Lab. Maybe some local factor ?
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    Farooq said:

    glw said:

    The America news coming in now is desperately sad. But since nothing changed since Sandy Hook, it is not shocking.

    I love America - but it is deeply flawed

    After the Aurora shooting, and nothing happening, I wondered if something like Dunblane might shock America into action. Sandy Hook showed that not to be the case.

    I honestly wonder if even something on the scale of Beslan would make a difference. My hunch now is that it wouldn't. America would tolerate hundreds killed in a shooting, the Las Vegas shooting had hundreds injured and 60 deaths, and that was soon forgotten about.

    There doesn't seem to be anything that will change America's love of guns.
    I mean, it was less than 5 years ago that 411 people were shot in a SINGLE incident in Las Vegas, and nobody even talks about it. America is a shithole country. Half the people are mad, and half the country are imbeciles.
    And of course that incident was a sniper hidden in one of thousands of hotel windows. So the loons argument of "a bad guy with a gun can be stopped by a good guy with a gun" was shown to be insane.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 447
    There is a program that has had considerable success in taking guns away from criminals in parts of the United States. It is commonly known as "stop and frisk", but has a different legal name: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_stop

    It was so successful in New York City that criminals there began to use "community" guns. Rather than carry a gun on them, where it might be confiscated by a suspicious police officer, they would conceal them in public places, retrieving them only when they were about to commit a crime.

    (They were called "community" guns because one gun was often shared by several criminals.)

    Why wasn't this used more? The obvious reason; to make it work in New York, the police officers had to stop many young black and Hispanic men. That the program also saved the lives of hundreds in the same groups was not considered a sufficient reason to keep it.

    Was it sometimes abused? Since police officers are, like the rest fo us, human, I'm sure it was.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 7,449
    "its dividends are paid to pension funds"

    Can't we find a better way of funding our retirement than leeching off people's gas bills? Is that really beyond us?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 6,398
    Farooq said:

    I haven't read Vanity Fair, and after this header I never will

    I have read two Thackeray, Vanity Fair and Pendennis that was just as good. But the joy of the books is unfilmable. Screen needs heroes and heroines or at least anti heroes, something where everyone is bad works so well in books but not on screen.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 3,525
    edited May 24
    Just looked at the Wiki page listing school (and university) shootings in the USA. Even if we think this has been going on forever, instances including the worst events have been accelerating greatly since the turn of this century - it looks like 10 of the 11 US education setting shootings with 10 or more fatalities (if I'm counting correctly) have happened since 1999.

    I'm certainly no pro second amendment nut, but there is a productive side discussion to be had about the factors, other than the very existence of guns, that have driven this, really quite recent, acceleration.

    Edit: a separate list from dixiedean's
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States?wprov=sfla1
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 33,420
    edited May 24
    dixiedean said:

    Click on this. And scroll down the list.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States_in_2022

    Most of them don't even make the news here.
    My first night in the USA, San Diego 1982, there was a mass shooting on the local news in LA.
    It was not the top story. Seriously.realised I was not in UK.

    I lived in Atlanta GA in the late Seventies, a city with a population similar to Northern Ireland. Atlanta had a substantially higher murder rate.

    In 1975, while my folks were doing some shopping, my 13 yr old brother and I wandered into the gunshop next to the supermarket. When my folks found us, my brother was handling a Thompson sub-machine gun, and the shop owner was asking us if he wanted to take it to his shooting range.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 57,430

    Even Telegraph now admitting a windfall tax this week is a dead cat.

    Of course it is, it doesn't solve anything at all.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 6,376
    Not another f***ing one America.

    Get your shit together.

    That is all.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 7,449

    Farooq said:

    I haven't read Vanity Fair, and after this header I never will

    I have read two Thackeray, Vanity Fair and Pendennis that was just as good. But the joy of the books is unfilmable. Screen needs heroes and heroines or at least anti heroes, something where everyone is bad works so well in books but not on screen.
    Peep Show is brilliant and basically all the characters are dicks.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 7,449

    Not another f***ing one America.

    Get your shit together.

    That is all.

    Ctrl-C
    Wait a few days
    Ctrl-V

    repeat
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 6,398
    Farooq said:

    "its dividends are paid to pension funds"

    Can't we find a better way of funding our retirement than leeching off people's gas bills? Is that really beyond us?

    No you don’t understand, in recent decades energy prices paid by households was fair enough, dividends to a good place like pension funds is not leeching off consumers in that scenario. The problem with windfall tax is government marching into a market, arbitrary pointing at someone and declaring your profits this year are undeserved.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 14,513
    edited May 24
    Vanity Fair is unfilmable because it’s a picaresque series of comic episodes; it’s the wrong structure.

    I say that; Barry Lyndon is similar and of course was filmed by Kubrick. I believe it was panned at the time but some now regard it as his masterpiece.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,088
    Aslan said:

    Farooq said:

    glw said:

    The America news coming in now is desperately sad. But since nothing changed since Sandy Hook, it is not shocking.

    I love America - but it is deeply flawed

    After the Aurora shooting, and nothing happening, I wondered if something like Dunblane might shock America into action. Sandy Hook showed that not to be the case.

    I honestly wonder if even something on the scale of Beslan would make a difference. My hunch now is that it wouldn't. America would tolerate hundreds killed in a shooting, the Las Vegas shooting had hundreds injured and 60 deaths, and that was soon forgotten about.

    There doesn't seem to be anything that will change America's love of guns.
    I mean, it was less than 5 years ago that 411 people were shot in a SINGLE incident in Las Vegas, and nobody even talks about it. America is a shithole country. Half the people are mad, and half the country are imbeciles.
    So the loons argument of "a bad guy with a gun can be stopped by a good guy with a gun" was shown to be insane.
    And yet it seemed like such a sound, logic based position. I am shocked.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 6,376
    RobD said:

    Even Telegraph now admitting a windfall tax this week is a dead cat.

    Of course it is, it doesn't solve anything at all.
    It was a really stupid idea when the Opposition proposed it.

    It will be a really stupid idea when the Government does it.

    Utterly counterproductive but this tired socialist Government hasn't got a clue.

    If all we're going to get washed up Labour policies and Gordon Brown's favourite tax rises, why not just have the real deal doing it and let the Tories sort themselves out in Opposition.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 14,371
    edited May 24
    Carnyx said:

    https://www.dgwgo.com/dumfries-galloway-news/labour-snp-to-run-dumfries-council-a/

    Looks as though Carnyx was wrong about Labour not going into any coalition with the SNP interestingly.

    Some very interesting council formations.

    Does beg the question as to why the SNP have been able to form administrations as a minority on some councils like Midlothian and East Dunbartonshire (where they could in theory have been shut out) but not on others?

    That's a double surprise, as (a) Mr Sarwar was the one who was going on and on about going into coalitions with anyone at all, and (b) the tendency has consistently been Lab + Tory with some LD.

    The headline/URL is also misleading as it doesn't mention the Independent group who are also involved.

    The actual results are:

    Scottish Conservative and Unionist - 16
    Scottish National Party - 11
    Scottish Labour Party - 9
    Scottish Liberal Democrats - 1
    Independent - 6

    So one would have thought that Tory + Ind would be amply sufficient. But without that it would have to be Tory + Lab. Maybe some local factor ?
    Dumfries has had SNP-Con and SNP-Lab and Lab-Ind control in the last few years. This is 2012-2017:

    The council was controlled by a Conservative and Scottish National Party (SNP) coalition until late 2013, when the resignation of seven Conservative councillors left the coalition without an outright majority.[40] The council was then controlled from October 2013 by a Labour and SNP coalition[41] until June 2014, when the SNP left due to concerns about how a decision was taken to site a learning hub in Dumfries.[42] The council was then run by a minority administration led by Scottish Labour and Craig Peacock, an Independent, until the 2017 elections.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumfries_and_Galloway

    Having kept an occasional eye on Scottish / Welsh LG coalitions over the years, it is genuinely very variable.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 22,723
    Farooq said:

    "its dividends are paid to pension funds"

    Can't we find a better way of funding our retirement than leeching off people's gas bills? Is that really beyond us?

    Some facts.
    The standard UC after rent for single under 25's is £ 265.31 per calendar month.
    For over 25's is £ 334.91.
    The average energy bill from October is predicted to be £233.33 per calendar month.
    This is not sustainable.
    Regardless of any fucker's pension fund.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 14,513
    edited May 24
    The news from Texas pains and depresses me.

    America is often an inspiration, but also a warning.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,088
    RobD said:

    Even Telegraph now admitting a windfall tax this week is a dead cat.

    Of course it is, it doesn't solve anything at all.
    Does it get positive headlines for a week at least? That's about as far ahead as the government usually looks.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 33,420
    edited May 24
    Pro_Rata said:

    Just looked at the Wiki page listing school (and university) shootings in the USA. Even if we think this has been going on forever, instances including the worst events have been accelerating greatly since the turn of this century - it looks like 10 of the 11 US education setting shootings with 10 or more fatalities (if I'm counting correctly) have happened since 1999.

    I'm certainly no pro second amendment nut, but there is a productive side discussion to be had about the factors, other than the very existence of guns, that have driven this, really quite recent, acceleration.

    Edit: a separate list from dixiedean's
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States?wprov=sfla1

    In 1994 there was a 10 year ban on the sale of new assault weapons, or large capacity magazines. It was not renewed in 2004 or since.

    It seemed to have little effect on the overall murder rate, but may have had effect on limiting mass shootings.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 46,234

    geoffw said:

    Phillips P. OBrien

    The thing that seems strange about all the comments saying pressure must be put on Ukraine to give up territory or Putin must be given an off ramp, etc, is that it’s all unnecessary. If the different governments want to make their views known to the Ukr govt, they can...

    Saying it out loud only puts more pressure on Ukr and gives more hope to Putin. So why do it? I can’t think of one thing it gains but publicity and point scoring. Far better to provide what aid to Ukr you want, quietly let your position be known, and then step back.

    I don’t think it’s the governments saying this. I think it’s the likes of Schroeder. (“Senior figures”). They have lost but are still trying to influence the debate in Russia’s favour
    They are the worst, but I wouldn't underestimate the willingness of the French, German, Italian or Hungarian governments to push for Ukraine to make "concessions".
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 14,513
    A windfall tax is a great idea because the idea that energy is a free market is bullshit anyway. These guys live by regulatory and political arbitrage.

    It won’t raise much but every little helps.
    The immediate fiscal priority must be to reverse the universal credit cuts.
This discussion has been closed.