Truss just explicitly said in the Commons that the Protocol was never intended to be set in stone.
Nor should it be. Evolution works. The Protocol in its 15th Article says how the Protocol can be changed by negotiations and in its 16th provides Safeguards to overwrite parts too. Both are entirely appropriate to use.
Its quite amusing to me how many people who deny my notion that post-Brexit Britain can be more nimble and less sclerotic are being horrified at post-Brexit Britain being nimble and not sclerotic.
It's the dishonesty and lack of trustworthiness that are the problem.
Dishonesty is putting up sanctions on Russia and then creating financial mechanisms to break them. The idea that the EU is some virtuous and completely honest organisation is completely ridiculous.
Siri, provide me with a textbook example of whataboutery.
But you want the UK to trust an inherently untrustworthy organisation. They have proven they are willing to stab Ukraine in the back so Germany can keep selling dishwashers. The evidence is clear that the EU can't be trusted and neither can we.
All along I've said that the UK-EU relationship needs to be a tightly defined set of rules. Trust, doing the other one a favour, or expecting a favour from either party is not going to happen, they are not an informal ally who we can rely on to help us when we need it. This isn't New Zealand and Canada loaning up a few hundred trade negotiators in 2017 and 2018, the EU is ultimately a formal ally with whom we have a trade deal and not a lot else.
Everyone needs to see our relationship with the EU through this lens and give up on the fanciful idea that if we do them a favour they might respond in kind. It's not going to happen.
The EU aren't the ones about to tear up an agreement they signed up to just three years ago. Whether the EU is a paragon of virtue or the epitome of evil (a question on which I have ventured no opinion) is irrelevant to the issue of whether the UK should be in the business of signing international treaties with its fingers crossed behind its back. It's a bad look for us and damaging to our ability to operate effectively in international affairs.
No, they're just tearing up the sanctions they agreed on Russia a few weeks ago. So maybe neither country is to be trusted.
But only one is abrogating an international treaty. To be clear, this is not a beauty contest of UK vs EU, my contention that Brexit was a bad idea does not rest on any idea that the EU is some uniquely virtuous organisation, which is as well because I don't think it is. The question is whether signing a treaty that you don't intend to honour because you've dug yourself into a hole by lying to your voters, and then tearing up that treaty a few years later when you supposedly suddenly cotton on to the bits of the treaty that you don't like, is a sensible path of action for a country that wants to be taken seriously and prosper on the world stage. Endless whataboutery and diversionary assaults on the moral integrity of the EU can't distract from the absurdity of the British position.
Whatever the rights and wrongs it would be quite a thing for the EU to "sanction" the UK at a time when the said UK has done more than any other European country to come to the assistance of Ukraine. Interesting optics.
Equally quite a thing to pick an unnecessary fight with the EU when the Ukraine conflict demands a united European front. No wonder Putin loves Brexit so much.
Oh give it up already. 🙄
At a time when France, Germany and the EU under its rotating French Presidency is circumventing international sanctions, while British munitions are helping Ukraine win the war, I think the idea that it is Brexit that is on Putin's side can be put in the dustbin of bad takes once and for all. 🤦♂️
The point is that without the UK in the EU, the EU will be dominated by German mercantilist interests, as we have seen. The EU would be taking a much firmer stand against Putin if we were still in it. That is the advantage he has gained ftom Brexit.
The EU always was dominated by German mercantilist interests and by its very nature always will be.
It takes unanimity to agree to sanctions, so the EU always has and always will operate to its lowest common denominator - which is the German mercantilists.
I see that anti-prejudice course I booked you on didn't work that well then?
Being disappointed with German mercantilism at a time they're circumventing sanctions on Russia isn't prejudice.
I was positive about Germany when they imposed the sanctions. I'm disappointed when the sanctions are circumvented.
That's consistency and integrity, not prejudice. You should be disappointed with such sanction-breaking too.
Most of your posts genuinely stink of prejudice. I am not sure where your prejudice extends to, but examples include (but are not ,limited to) simplistic attacks on EU, Germans (both in this case), French, Irish, Roman Catholics, people of faith. If I didn't know better I'd think you were a wizened grumpy old octogenarian who had rarely set foot outside somewhere like a village in North Yorkshire, where you surround yourself with other prejudiced old gits who complain about the world not being how it ought to be and boring everyone senseless with your "wisdom" on how the world would be better if everyone were English, and presumably right wing Tory.
I have no qualms with people of faith.
I do have a qualm with the Roman Catholic Church as a flawed institution and for very good reason.
My view on faith is much like my view on penises. Its fine to have one, its fine to be proud of it, but please don't wave it around in public and especially don't try and shove it down other people's throats uninvited.
You dispute one prejudice, and even that one doesn't really stand up to scrutiny. Prejudiced and proud eh?
No, not prejudiced, just pointing out the ridiculousness of your position.
Objecting to the actions of the German government no more makes you prejudiced than objecting to the actions of Boris's government makes you prejudiced.
The German government isn't all Germans. The Roman Catholic Church isn't all Catholics. Vladimir Putin isn't all Russians. The GOP isn't all Americans.
Only a simplistic fool would consider objecting to an institution or its leaders like Boris Johnson, or the GOP, or the German government etc is a prejudice against all of that nation, or all of that faith. That is taking L'état, c'est moi to absurd proportions.
Lol. "simplistic fool". Today's psychological projection prize is awarded to P, er sorry, Bart Roberts, as he is now known. We all have prejudices, Barty, it is just that most of your posts reveal yours in glorious technicolour. You dislike foreigners, and I would say that maybe trumps any dislike I have for the lying fool who we are currently unfortunate to have as our PM.
BREAKING: Tory whips confirm they've asked an MP to stay away from Parliament after he was arrested for alleged sexual assault, indecent assault & rape.
“The Chief Whip has asked that the MP concerned does not attend the Parliamentary Estate while an investigation is ongoing."
Sky reporting upto 50 mps are currently under investigation for sex and sexual assault allegations
It just makes you despair at the lack of integrity and decency by the political classes
As we bemoan the atmosphere that works against so many good people entering politics, we get a closer view on those who are still attracted to public office in the 21st century - and it’s not good.
Politicians, journalism. Two professions irredeemably tainted now. They have all sat too long for any good they may do, write or report. In the name of God, go!
BREAKING: Tory whips confirm they've asked an MP to stay away from Parliament after he was arrested for alleged sexual assault, indecent assault & rape.
“The Chief Whip has asked that the MP concerned does not attend the Parliamentary Estate while an investigation is ongoing."
Truss just explicitly said in the Commons that the Protocol was never intended to be set in stone.
Nor should it be. Evolution works. The Protocol in its 15th Article says how the Protocol can be changed by negotiations and in its 16th provides Safeguards to overwrite parts too. Both are entirely appropriate to use.
Its quite amusing to me how many people who deny my notion that post-Brexit Britain can be more nimble and less sclerotic are being horrified at post-Brexit Britain being nimble and not sclerotic.
It's the dishonesty and lack of trustworthiness that are the problem.
Dishonesty is putting up sanctions on Russia and then creating financial mechanisms to break them. The idea that the EU is some virtuous and completely honest organisation is completely ridiculous.
Siri, provide me with a textbook example of whataboutery.
But you want the UK to trust an inherently untrustworthy organisation. They have proven they are willing to stab Ukraine in the back so Germany can keep selling dishwashers. The evidence is clear that the EU can't be trusted and neither can we.
All along I've said that the UK-EU relationship needs to be a tightly defined set of rules. Trust, doing the other one a favour, or expecting a favour from either party is not going to happen, they are not an informal ally who we can rely on to help us when we need it. This isn't New Zealand and Canada loaning up a few hundred trade negotiators in 2017 and 2018, the EU is ultimately a formal ally with whom we have a trade deal and not a lot else.
Everyone needs to see our relationship with the EU through this lens and give up on the fanciful idea that if we do them a favour they might respond in kind. It's not going to happen.
The EU aren't the ones about to tear up an agreement they signed up to just three years ago. Whether the EU is a paragon of virtue or the epitome of evil (a question on which I have ventured no opinion) is irrelevant to the issue of whether the UK should be in the business of signing international treaties with its fingers crossed behind its back. It's a bad look for us and damaging to our ability to operate effectively in international affairs.
No, they're just tearing up the sanctions they agreed on Russia a few weeks ago. So maybe neither country is to be trusted.
But only one is abrogating an international treaty. To be clear, this is not a beauty contest of UK vs EU, my contention that Brexit was a bad idea does not rest on any idea that the EU is some uniquely virtuous organisation, which is as well because I don't think it is. The question is whether signing a treaty that you don't intend to honour because you've dug yourself into a hole by lying to your voters, and then tearing up that treaty a few years later when you supposedly suddenly cotton on to the bits of the treaty that you don't like, is a sensible path of action for a country that wants to be taken seriously and prosper on the world stage. Endless whataboutery and diversionary assaults on the moral integrity of the EU can't distract from the absurdity of the British position.
Whatever the rights and wrongs it would be quite a thing for the EU to "sanction" the UK at a time when the said UK has done more than any other European country to come to the assistance of Ukraine. Interesting optics.
Equally quite a thing to pick an unnecessary fight with the EU when the Ukraine conflict demands a united European front. No wonder Putin loves Brexit so much.
Oh give it up already. 🙄
At a time when France, Germany and the EU under its rotating French Presidency is circumventing international sanctions, while British munitions are helping Ukraine win the war, I think the idea that it is Brexit that is on Putin's side can be put in the dustbin of bad takes once and for all. 🤦♂️
The point is that without the UK in the EU, the EU will be dominated by German mercantilist interests, as we have seen. The EU would be taking a much firmer stand against Putin if we were still in it. That is the advantage he has gained ftom Brexit.
The EU always was dominated by German mercantilist interests and by its very nature always will be.
It takes unanimity to agree to sanctions, so the EU always has and always will operate to its lowest common denominator - which is the German mercantilists.
I see that anti-prejudice course I booked you on didn't work that well then?
Being disappointed with German mercantilism at a time they're circumventing sanctions on Russia isn't prejudice.
I was positive about Germany when they imposed the sanctions. I'm disappointed when the sanctions are circumvented.
That's consistency and integrity, not prejudice. You should be disappointed with such sanction-breaking too.
Most of your posts genuinely stink of prejudice. I am not sure where your prejudice extends to, but examples include (but are not ,limited to) simplistic attacks on EU, Germans (both in this case), French, Irish, Roman Catholics, people of faith. If I didn't know better I'd think you were a wizened grumpy old octogenarian who had rarely set foot outside somewhere like a village in North Yorkshire, where you surround yourself with other prejudiced old gits who complain about the world not being how it ought to be and boring everyone senseless with your "wisdom" on how the world would be better if everyone were English, and presumably right wing Tory.
I have no qualms with people of faith.
I do have a qualm with the Roman Catholic Church as a flawed institution and for very good reason.
My view on faith is much like my view on penises. Its fine to have one, its fine to be proud of it, but please don't wave it around in public and especially don't try and shove it down other people's throats uninvited.
You dispute one prejudice, and even that one doesn't really stand up to scrutiny. Prejudiced and proud eh?
No, not prejudiced, just pointing out the ridiculousness of your position.
Objecting to the actions of the German government no more makes you prejudiced than objecting to the actions of Boris's government makes you prejudiced.
The German government isn't all Germans. The Roman Catholic Church isn't all Catholics. Vladimir Putin isn't all Russians. The GOP isn't all Americans.
Only a simplistic fool would consider objecting to an institution or its leaders like Boris Johnson, or the GOP, or the German government etc is a prejudice against all of that nation, or all of that faith. That is taking L'état, c'est moi to absurd proportions.
Lol. "simplistic fool". Today's psychological projection prize is awarded to P, er sorry, Bart Roberts, as he is now known. We all have prejudices, Barty, it is just that most of your posts reveal yours in glorious technicolour. You dislike foreigners, and I would say that maybe trumps any dislike I have for the lying fool who we are currently unfortunate to have as our PM.
You're an idiot.
I don't dislike foreigners at all. I've given great praise to many foreign nations, so do you think I love all them?
Or maybe being a sentient human being I'm capable of thinking complex thoughts about complex issues, something that you seem incapable of doing. Oh and this being a rather contrarian website we more often talk about those we disagree with (whether it be Boris, Corbyn, Trump, UVDL, Sinn Fein, the DUP or anyone else) than the plethora of foreign leaders that we like and agree with.
I'm really struggling with @hyufd's logic here so I may need correcting but I think it is something like this:
If you lose an election or a referendum you have to suck it up. No compromise to the losing side no matter how close the result is. Implement to the extreme and any disobedience put down with the utmost force.
If you lose an election or referendum, but happen to be a Tory, Unionist, Right Wing or whatever then your views have to be taken into account even if that means forming an unviable enclave and you must give way to any threat of violence.
Northern Ireland was created by the threat of violence via the armed Ulster volunteers. Loyalist paramilitaries still exist.
I have yet to see see any significant terrorism from Scottish Nationalists over the 2014 referendum loss or Remainers over the 2016 referendum loss or indeed from unionists and Tories who were on the beaten side in the 1997 Scottish devolution referendum.
Northern Ireland has a history of recent internal violence the rest of the UK does not so must be handled with special care
Whoosh straight over your head.
Well of course it should be handles with care.
But you argue about putting down demonstrations in Scotland with tanks. You admire the force used in Spain. You give no quarter on compromise with your opponents views on anything. Quoting you on a number of occasions you have said 'Tough the Tories won'.
Yet as soon as violence is threatened you fold like a pack of cards.
So your argument presumably is to us Remainers we should take up arms as should the Scot Nats. What a pathetic irresponsible response.
There is no history of significant terrorism in Scotland and it is within the UK government's right to refuse an indyref2.
If Remainers had taken up arms for their own areas to stay in the EU then there might have been a case to consider it. They didn't, nor did they even vote in most Remain areas for the LDs in 2019 who outright rejected Brexit.
The Good Friday Agreement and Sinn Fein representation at Stormont in the executive only emerged of course because of IRA violence in NI and GB
Twat.
Complete, total, unmitigated twat.
I think you're a bit harsh there Stuart, you have redeeming features as well.
BREAKING: Tory whips confirm they've asked an MP to stay away from Parliament after he was arrested for alleged sexual assault, indecent assault & rape.
“The Chief Whip has asked that the MP concerned does not attend the Parliamentary Estate while an investigation is ongoing."
Sky reporting upto 50 mps are currently under investigation for sex and sexual assault allegations
It just makes you despair at the lack of integrity and decency by the political classes
The old adage about power bring an aphrodisiac really just means those in power abusing it to abuse others. Time that was ended once and for all. Be kind. Be good. And if you can't be kind and good, fuck off.
On one level, it's always happened- the line about Tory scandals being sex and Labour scandals being money is a cliche, but an accurate one. Put a bunch of alpha men and women in a building without much external supervision and who knows what hijinks will follow. Anyone who knows people, that's who knows.
But there is a qualitative difference between extra-marital canoodling and the more rapey stuff that's being alleged now. The optimisitic take is that the horrible stuff has always happened and the difference is that it's now being called out for what it is. But I'm not yet convinced that it's OK to be optimistic.
In fairness productivity in the sector is shocking. You run No 10 like a Butlin’s holiday camp in the middle of a pandemic and all you get is one lousy FPN on your birthday. What sort of criminal justice system is that?
BREAKING: Tory whips confirm they've asked an MP to stay away from Parliament after he was arrested for alleged sexual assault, indecent assault & rape.
“The Chief Whip has asked that the MP concerned does not attend the Parliamentary Estate while an investigation is ongoing."
Sky reporting upto 50 mps are currently under investigation for sex and sexual assault allegations
It just makes you despair at the lack of integrity and decency by the political classes
The old adage about power bring an aphrodisiac really just means those in power abusing it to abuse others. Time that was ended once and for all. Be kind. Be good. And if you can't be kind and good, fuck off.
On one level, it's always happened- the line about Tory scandals being sex and Labour scandals being money is a cliche, but an accurate one. Put a bunch of alpha men and women in a building without much external supervision and who knows what hijinks will follow. Anyone who knows people, that's who knows.
But there is a qualitative difference between extra-marital canoodling and the more rapey stuff that's being alleged now. The optimisitic take is that the horrible stuff has always happened and the difference is that it's now being called out for what it is. But I'm not yet convinced that it's OK to be optimistic.
I'm not remotely optimistic even though i think youre right. Nest of vipers. Always was. And they rule over us
Truss just explicitly said in the Commons that the Protocol was never intended to be set in stone.
Nor should it be. Evolution works. The Protocol in its 15th Article says how the Protocol can be changed by negotiations and in its 16th provides Safeguards to overwrite parts too. Both are entirely appropriate to use.
Its quite amusing to me how many people who deny my notion that post-Brexit Britain can be more nimble and less sclerotic are being horrified at post-Brexit Britain being nimble and not sclerotic.
It's the dishonesty and lack of trustworthiness that are the problem.
Dishonesty is putting up sanctions on Russia and then creating financial mechanisms to break them. The idea that the EU is some virtuous and completely honest organisation is completely ridiculous.
Siri, provide me with a textbook example of whataboutery.
But you want the UK to trust an inherently untrustworthy organisation. They have proven they are willing to stab Ukraine in the back so Germany can keep selling dishwashers. The evidence is clear that the EU can't be trusted and neither can we.
All along I've said that the UK-EU relationship needs to be a tightly defined set of rules. Trust, doing the other one a favour, or expecting a favour from either party is not going to happen, they are not an informal ally who we can rely on to help us when we need it. This isn't New Zealand and Canada loaning up a few hundred trade negotiators in 2017 and 2018, the EU is ultimately a formal ally with whom we have a trade deal and not a lot else.
Everyone needs to see our relationship with the EU through this lens and give up on the fanciful idea that if we do them a favour they might respond in kind. It's not going to happen.
The EU aren't the ones about to tear up an agreement they signed up to just three years ago. Whether the EU is a paragon of virtue or the epitome of evil (a question on which I have ventured no opinion) is irrelevant to the issue of whether the UK should be in the business of signing international treaties with its fingers crossed behind its back. It's a bad look for us and damaging to our ability to operate effectively in international affairs.
No, they're just tearing up the sanctions they agreed on Russia a few weeks ago. So maybe neither country is to be trusted.
But only one is abrogating an international treaty. To be clear, this is not a beauty contest of UK vs EU, my contention that Brexit was a bad idea does not rest on any idea that the EU is some uniquely virtuous organisation, which is as well because I don't think it is. The question is whether signing a treaty that you don't intend to honour because you've dug yourself into a hole by lying to your voters, and then tearing up that treaty a few years later when you supposedly suddenly cotton on to the bits of the treaty that you don't like, is a sensible path of action for a country that wants to be taken seriously and prosper on the world stage. Endless whataboutery and diversionary assaults on the moral integrity of the EU can't distract from the absurdity of the British position.
Whatever the rights and wrongs it would be quite a thing for the EU to "sanction" the UK at a time when the said UK has done more than any other European country to come to the assistance of Ukraine. Interesting optics.
Equally quite a thing to pick an unnecessary fight with the EU when the Ukraine conflict demands a united European front. No wonder Putin loves Brexit so much.
Oh give it up already. 🙄
At a time when France, Germany and the EU under its rotating French Presidency is circumventing international sanctions, while British munitions are helping Ukraine win the war, I think the idea that it is Brexit that is on Putin's side can be put in the dustbin of bad takes once and for all. 🤦♂️
The point is that without the UK in the EU, the EU will be dominated by German mercantilist interests, as we have seen. The EU would be taking a much firmer stand against Putin if we were still in it. That is the advantage he has gained ftom Brexit.
The EU always was dominated by German mercantilist interests and by its very nature always will be.
It takes unanimity to agree to sanctions, so the EU always has and always will operate to its lowest common denominator - which is the German mercantilists.
I see that anti-prejudice course I booked you on didn't work that well then?
Being disappointed with German mercantilism at a time they're circumventing sanctions on Russia isn't prejudice.
I was positive about Germany when they imposed the sanctions. I'm disappointed when the sanctions are circumvented.
That's consistency and integrity, not prejudice. You should be disappointed with such sanction-breaking too.
Most of your posts genuinely stink of prejudice. I am not sure where your prejudice extends to, but examples include (but are not ,limited to) simplistic attacks on EU, Germans (both in this case), French, Irish, Roman Catholics, people of faith. If I didn't know better I'd think you were a wizened grumpy old octogenarian who had rarely set foot outside somewhere like a village in North Yorkshire, where you surround yourself with other prejudiced old gits who complain about the world not being how it ought to be and boring everyone senseless with your "wisdom" on how the world would be better if everyone were English, and presumably right wing Tory.
I have no qualms with people of faith.
I do have a qualm with the Roman Catholic Church as a flawed institution and for very good reason.
My view on faith is much like my view on penises. Its fine to have one, its fine to be proud of it, but please don't wave it around in public and especially don't try and shove it down other people's throats uninvited.
You dispute one prejudice, and even that one doesn't really stand up to scrutiny. Prejudiced and proud eh?
No, not prejudiced, just pointing out the ridiculousness of your position.
Objecting to the actions of the German government no more makes you prejudiced than objecting to the actions of Boris's government makes you prejudiced.
The German government isn't all Germans. The Roman Catholic Church isn't all Catholics. Vladimir Putin isn't all Russians. The GOP isn't all Americans.
Only a simplistic fool would consider objecting to an institution or its leaders like Boris Johnson, or the GOP, or the German government etc is a prejudice against all of that nation, or all of that faith. That is taking L'état, c'est moi to absurd proportions.
Lol. "simplistic fool". Today's psychological projection prize is awarded to P, er sorry, Bart Roberts, as he is now known. We all have prejudices, Barty, it is just that most of your posts reveal yours in glorious technicolour. You dislike foreigners, and I would say that maybe trumps any dislike I have for the lying fool who we are currently unfortunate to have as our PM.
You're an idiot.
I don't dislike foreigners at all. I've given great praise to many foreign nations, so do you think I love all them?
Or maybe being a sentient human being I'm capable of thinking complex thoughts about complex issues, something that you seem incapable of doing. Oh and this being a rather contrarian website we more often talk about those we disagree with (whether it be Boris, Corbyn, Trump, UVDL, Sinn Fein, the DUP or anyone else) than the plethora of foreign leaders that we like and agree with.
If I am an idiot then feck knows where you are on that scale.
"I'm capable of thinking complex thoughts about complex issues" 😂😂😂. Get over yourself man!
BREAKING: Tory whips confirm they've asked an MP to stay away from Parliament after he was arrested for alleged sexual assault, indecent assault & rape.
“The Chief Whip has asked that the MP concerned does not attend the Parliamentary Estate while an investigation is ongoing."
Sky reporting upto 50 mps are currently under investigation for sex and sexual assault allegations
It just makes you despair at the lack of integrity and decency by the political classes
The old adage about power bring an aphrodisiac really just means those in power abusing it to abuse others. Time that was ended once and for all. Be kind. Be good. And if you can't be kind and good, fuck off.
BREAKING: Tory whips confirm they've asked an MP to stay away from Parliament after he was arrested for alleged sexual assault, indecent assault & rape.
“The Chief Whip has asked that the MP concerned does not attend the Parliamentary Estate while an investigation is ongoing."
Sky reporting upto 50 mps are currently under investigation for sex and sexual assault allegations
It just makes you despair at the lack of integrity and decency by the political classes
Indeed. 50 out of 650. Pathetic. Do people living on the public teat not understand that what we want is be amused at their stupidity, arrogance and hypocrisy?
These people are so delusional that they think we care what they think. It’s bizarre.
I'm really struggling with @hyufd's logic here so I may need correcting but I think it is something like this:
If you lose an election or a referendum you have to suck it up. No compromise to the losing side no matter how close the result is. Implement to the extreme and any disobedience put down with the utmost force.
If you lose an election or referendum, but happen to be a Tory, Unionist, Right Wing or whatever then your views have to be taken into account even if that means forming an unviable enclave and you must give way to any threat of violence.
Northern Ireland was created by the threat of violence via the armed Ulster volunteers. Loyalist paramilitaries still exist.
I have yet to see see any significant terrorism from Scottish Nationalists over the 2014 referendum loss or Remainers over the 2016 referendum loss or indeed from unionists and Tories who were on the beaten side in the 1997 Scottish devolution referendum.
Northern Ireland has a history of recent internal violence the rest of the UK does not so must be handled with special care
Whoosh straight over your head.
Well of course it should be handles with care.
But you argue about putting down demonstrations in Scotland with tanks. You admire the force used in Spain. You give no quarter on compromise with your opponents views on anything. Quoting you on a number of occasions you have said 'Tough the Tories won'.
Yet as soon as violence is threatened you fold like a pack of cards.
So your argument presumably is to us Remainers we should take up arms as should the Scot Nats. What a pathetic irresponsible response.
There is no history of significant terrorism in Scotland and it is within the UK government's right to refuse an indyref2.
If Remainers had taken up arms for their own areas to stay in the EU then there might have been a case to consider it. They didn't, nor did they even vote in most Remain areas for the LDs in 2019 who outright rejected Brexit.
The Good Friday Agreement and Sinn Fein representation at Stormont in the executive only emerged of course because of IRA violence in NI and GB
Twat.
Complete, total, unmitigated twat.
I think you're a bit harsh there Stuart, you have redeeming features as well.
Truss just explicitly said in the Commons that the Protocol was never intended to be set in stone.
Nor should it be. Evolution works. The Protocol in its 15th Article says how the Protocol can be changed by negotiations and in its 16th provides Safeguards to overwrite parts too. Both are entirely appropriate to use.
Its quite amusing to me how many people who deny my notion that post-Brexit Britain can be more nimble and less sclerotic are being horrified at post-Brexit Britain being nimble and not sclerotic.
It's the dishonesty and lack of trustworthiness that are the problem.
Dishonesty is putting up sanctions on Russia and then creating financial mechanisms to break them. The idea that the EU is some virtuous and completely honest organisation is completely ridiculous.
Siri, provide me with a textbook example of whataboutery.
But you want the UK to trust an inherently untrustworthy organisation. They have proven they are willing to stab Ukraine in the back so Germany can keep selling dishwashers. The evidence is clear that the EU can't be trusted and neither can we.
All along I've said that the UK-EU relationship needs to be a tightly defined set of rules. Trust, doing the other one a favour, or expecting a favour from either party is not going to happen, they are not an informal ally who we can rely on to help us when we need it. This isn't New Zealand and Canada loaning up a few hundred trade negotiators in 2017 and 2018, the EU is ultimately a formal ally with whom we have a trade deal and not a lot else.
Everyone needs to see our relationship with the EU through this lens and give up on the fanciful idea that if we do them a favour they might respond in kind. It's not going to happen.
The EU aren't the ones about to tear up an agreement they signed up to just three years ago. Whether the EU is a paragon of virtue or the epitome of evil (a question on which I have ventured no opinion) is irrelevant to the issue of whether the UK should be in the business of signing international treaties with its fingers crossed behind its back. It's a bad look for us and damaging to our ability to operate effectively in international affairs.
No, they're just tearing up the sanctions they agreed on Russia a few weeks ago. So maybe neither country is to be trusted.
But only one is abrogating an international treaty. To be clear, this is not a beauty contest of UK vs EU, my contention that Brexit was a bad idea does not rest on any idea that the EU is some uniquely virtuous organisation, which is as well because I don't think it is. The question is whether signing a treaty that you don't intend to honour because you've dug yourself into a hole by lying to your voters, and then tearing up that treaty a few years later when you supposedly suddenly cotton on to the bits of the treaty that you don't like, is a sensible path of action for a country that wants to be taken seriously and prosper on the world stage. Endless whataboutery and diversionary assaults on the moral integrity of the EU can't distract from the absurdity of the British position.
Whatever the rights and wrongs it would be quite a thing for the EU to "sanction" the UK at a time when the said UK has done more than any other European country to come to the assistance of Ukraine. Interesting optics.
Equally quite a thing to pick an unnecessary fight with the EU when the Ukraine conflict demands a united European front. No wonder Putin loves Brexit so much.
Oh give it up already. 🙄
At a time when France, Germany and the EU under its rotating French Presidency is circumventing international sanctions, while British munitions are helping Ukraine win the war, I think the idea that it is Brexit that is on Putin's side can be put in the dustbin of bad takes once and for all. 🤦♂️
The point is that without the UK in the EU, the EU will be dominated by German mercantilist interests, as we have seen. The EU would be taking a much firmer stand against Putin if we were still in it. That is the advantage he has gained ftom Brexit.
The EU always was dominated by German mercantilist interests and by its very nature always will be.
It takes unanimity to agree to sanctions, so the EU always has and always will operate to its lowest common denominator - which is the German mercantilists.
I see that anti-prejudice course I booked you on didn't work that well then?
Being disappointed with German mercantilism at a time they're circumventing sanctions on Russia isn't prejudice.
I was positive about Germany when they imposed the sanctions. I'm disappointed when the sanctions are circumvented.
That's consistency and integrity, not prejudice. You should be disappointed with such sanction-breaking too.
Most of your posts genuinely stink of prejudice. I am not sure where your prejudice extends to, but examples include (but are not ,limited to) simplistic attacks on EU, Germans (both in this case), French, Irish, Roman Catholics, people of faith. If I didn't know better I'd think you were a wizened grumpy old octogenarian who had rarely set foot outside somewhere like a village in North Yorkshire, where you surround yourself with other prejudiced old gits who complain about the world not being how it ought to be and boring everyone senseless with your "wisdom" on how the world would be better if everyone were English, and presumably right wing Tory.
I have no qualms with people of faith.
I do have a qualm with the Roman Catholic Church as a flawed institution and for very good reason.
My view on faith is much like my view on penises. Its fine to have one, its fine to be proud of it, but please don't wave it around in public and especially don't try and shove it down other people's throats uninvited.
You dispute one prejudice, and even that one doesn't really stand up to scrutiny. Prejudiced and proud eh?
No, not prejudiced, just pointing out the ridiculousness of your position.
Objecting to the actions of the German government no more makes you prejudiced than objecting to the actions of Boris's government makes you prejudiced.
The German government isn't all Germans. The Roman Catholic Church isn't all Catholics. Vladimir Putin isn't all Russians. The GOP isn't all Americans.
Only a simplistic fool would consider objecting to an institution or its leaders like Boris Johnson, or the GOP, or the German government etc is a prejudice against all of that nation, or all of that faith. That is taking L'état, c'est moi to absurd proportions.
Lol. "simplistic fool". Today's psychological projection prize is awarded to P, er sorry, Bart Roberts, as he is now known. We all have prejudices, Barty, it is just that most of your posts reveal yours in glorious technicolour. You dislike foreigners, and I would say that maybe trumps any dislike I have for the lying fool who we are currently unfortunate to have as our PM.
You're an idiot.
I don't dislike foreigners at all. I've given great praise to many foreign nations, so do you think I love all them?
Or maybe being a sentient human being I'm capable of thinking complex thoughts about complex issues, something that you seem incapable of doing. Oh and this being a rather contrarian website we more often talk about those we disagree with (whether it be Boris, Corbyn, Trump, UVDL, Sinn Fein, the DUP or anyone else) than the plethora of foreign leaders that we like and agree with.
If I am an idiot then feck knows where you are on that scale.
"I'm capable of thinking complex thoughts about complex issues" 😂😂😂. Get over yourself man!
I said as a sentient human being, that's a basic thing all sentient humans can do.
Though I can appreciate why someone as simple minded as yourself, who wants to boil every issue to black and white rather than shades of grey, might struggle with the concept.
Incidentally people were talking earlier about the importance of history. Roehampton have told staff they are making swingeing cuts in their very highly regarded History department.
Truss just explicitly said in the Commons that the Protocol was never intended to be set in stone.
Nor should it be. Evolution works. The Protocol in its 15th Article says how the Protocol can be changed by negotiations and in its 16th provides Safeguards to overwrite parts too. Both are entirely appropriate to use.
Its quite amusing to me how many people who deny my notion that post-Brexit Britain can be more nimble and less sclerotic are being horrified at post-Brexit Britain being nimble and not sclerotic.
It's the dishonesty and lack of trustworthiness that are the problem.
Dishonesty is putting up sanctions on Russia and then creating financial mechanisms to break them. The idea that the EU is some virtuous and completely honest organisation is completely ridiculous.
Siri, provide me with a textbook example of whataboutery.
But you want the UK to trust an inherently untrustworthy organisation. They have proven they are willing to stab Ukraine in the back so Germany can keep selling dishwashers. The evidence is clear that the EU can't be trusted and neither can we.
All along I've said that the UK-EU relationship needs to be a tightly defined set of rules. Trust, doing the other one a favour, or expecting a favour from either party is not going to happen, they are not an informal ally who we can rely on to help us when we need it. This isn't New Zealand and Canada loaning up a few hundred trade negotiators in 2017 and 2018, the EU is ultimately a formal ally with whom we have a trade deal and not a lot else.
Everyone needs to see our relationship with the EU through this lens and give up on the fanciful idea that if we do them a favour they might respond in kind. It's not going to happen.
The EU aren't the ones about to tear up an agreement they signed up to just three years ago. Whether the EU is a paragon of virtue or the epitome of evil (a question on which I have ventured no opinion) is irrelevant to the issue of whether the UK should be in the business of signing international treaties with its fingers crossed behind its back. It's a bad look for us and damaging to our ability to operate effectively in international affairs.
No, they're just tearing up the sanctions they agreed on Russia a few weeks ago. So maybe neither country is to be trusted.
But only one is abrogating an international treaty. To be clear, this is not a beauty contest of UK vs EU, my contention that Brexit was a bad idea does not rest on any idea that the EU is some uniquely virtuous organisation, which is as well because I don't think it is. The question is whether signing a treaty that you don't intend to honour because you've dug yourself into a hole by lying to your voters, and then tearing up that treaty a few years later when you supposedly suddenly cotton on to the bits of the treaty that you don't like, is a sensible path of action for a country that wants to be taken seriously and prosper on the world stage. Endless whataboutery and diversionary assaults on the moral integrity of the EU can't distract from the absurdity of the British position.
Whatever the rights and wrongs it would be quite a thing for the EU to "sanction" the UK at a time when the said UK has done more than any other European country to come to the assistance of Ukraine. Interesting optics.
Equally quite a thing to pick an unnecessary fight with the EU when the Ukraine conflict demands a united European front. No wonder Putin loves Brexit so much.
Oh give it up already. 🙄
At a time when France, Germany and the EU under its rotating French Presidency is circumventing international sanctions, while British munitions are helping Ukraine win the war, I think the idea that it is Brexit that is on Putin's side can be put in the dustbin of bad takes once and for all. 🤦♂️
The point is that without the UK in the EU, the EU will be dominated by German mercantilist interests, as we have seen. The EU would be taking a much firmer stand against Putin if we were still in it. That is the advantage he has gained ftom Brexit.
The EU always was dominated by German mercantilist interests and by its very nature always will be.
It takes unanimity to agree to sanctions, so the EU always has and always will operate to its lowest common denominator - which is the German mercantilists.
I see that anti-prejudice course I booked you on didn't work that well then?
Being disappointed with German mercantilism at a time they're circumventing sanctions on Russia isn't prejudice.
I was positive about Germany when they imposed the sanctions. I'm disappointed when the sanctions are circumvented.
That's consistency and integrity, not prejudice. You should be disappointed with such sanction-breaking too.
Most of your posts genuinely stink of prejudice. I am not sure where your prejudice extends to, but examples include (but are not ,limited to) simplistic attacks on EU, Germans (both in this case), French, Irish, Roman Catholics, people of faith. If I didn't know better I'd think you were a wizened grumpy old octogenarian who had rarely set foot outside somewhere like a village in North Yorkshire, where you surround yourself with other prejudiced old gits who complain about the world not being how it ought to be and boring everyone senseless with your "wisdom" on how the world would be better if everyone were English, and presumably right wing Tory.
I have no qualms with people of faith.
I do have a qualm with the Roman Catholic Church as a flawed institution and for very good reason.
My view on faith is much like my view on penises. Its fine to have one, its fine to be proud of it, but please don't wave it around in public and especially don't try and shove it down other people's throats uninvited.
You dispute one prejudice, and even that one doesn't really stand up to scrutiny. Prejudiced and proud eh?
No, not prejudiced, just pointing out the ridiculousness of your position.
Objecting to the actions of the German government no more makes you prejudiced than objecting to the actions of Boris's government makes you prejudiced.
The German government isn't all Germans. The Roman Catholic Church isn't all Catholics. Vladimir Putin isn't all Russians. The GOP isn't all Americans.
Only a simplistic fool would consider objecting to an institution or its leaders like Boris Johnson, or the GOP, or the German government etc is a prejudice against all of that nation, or all of that faith. That is taking L'état, c'est moi to absurd proportions.
Lol. "simplistic fool". Today's psychological projection prize is awarded to P, er sorry, Bart Roberts, as he is now known. We all have prejudices, Barty, it is just that most of your posts reveal yours in glorious technicolour. You dislike foreigners, and I would say that maybe trumps any dislike I have for the lying fool who we are currently unfortunate to have as our PM.
You're an idiot.
I don't dislike foreigners at all. I've given great praise to many foreign nations, so do you think I love all them?
Or maybe being a sentient human being I'm capable of thinking complex thoughts about complex issues, something that you seem incapable of doing. Oh and this being a rather contrarian website we more often talk about those we disagree with (whether it be Boris, Corbyn, Trump, UVDL, Sinn Fein, the DUP or anyone else) than the plethora of foreign leaders that we like and agree with.
If I am an idiot then feck knows where you are on that scale.
"I'm capable of thinking complex thoughts about complex issues" 😂😂😂. Get over yourself man!
I said as a sentient human being, that's a basic thing all sentient humans can do.
Though I can appreciate why someone as simple minded as yourself, who wants to boil every issue to black and white rather than shades of grey, might struggle with the concept.
Blimey, you really need some help with that projection "Bart". Your desire to keep returning to get kicked is not brave it is just dumb.
I genuinely have no idea if the twitterers are right. I guess every non-accused Tory MP in their 50’s will want to make sure they turn up to PMQs tomorrow….
BREAKING: Tory whips confirm they've asked an MP to stay away from Parliament after he was arrested for alleged sexual assault, indecent assault & rape.
“The Chief Whip has asked that the MP concerned does not attend the Parliamentary Estate while an investigation is ongoing."
Sky reporting upto 50 mps are currently under investigation for sex and sexual assault allegations
It just makes you despair at the lack of integrity and decency by the political classes
The old adage about power bring an aphrodisiac really just means those in power abusing it to abuse others. Time that was ended once and for all. Be kind. Be good. And if you can't be kind and good, fuck off.
Hey Woolie, sorry to hear of your travails. So glad you are getting some attention
If it helps, I was down there in the darkness, with the black dog howling, during the worst of Covid - just like you. I split with my wife partly for Covid reasons (a painful split as we were still very close), then I had to face lockdown 3 - the winter one - all alone in a one bed flat in Camden when every single thing that usually keeps me sane - from friends to pubs to sun to restaurants to travel to art galleries and sex - was taken away from me. I felt actually suicidal a few times, and - weirder and somehow worse - later I behaved suicidally - eg driving at 140mph at noon for no reason
Crazy shit
I am very glad I did not do myself in. I am now in a much much happier place - I still have my mood swings but they are normal. I will always have them. What happened during Covid was an order of magnitude worse than the average bipolar blues
Anyway. Stick in there. And stay on PB. I found it an invaluable source of company at my loneliest moments….
Oh dear. But no name. Isn't that because MPs legislated to protect themselves? Or am I muddling?
I expect that anyone naming the accused will end up in hot water
Indeed the MET have specifically said the will not name the accused
And naming on here is an utter no no under any circumstances
Yep,. I wasn't asking for any illicit naming - had got muddled between being arrested and being charged and have been put right on that. Definitely agree with the Mods on this and all that.
Incidentally people were talking earlier about the importance of history. Roehampton have told staff they are making swingeing cuts in their very highly regarded History department.
Well they charge history students £9,000 for the privilege if they are not attracting enough students for it another reason we should not have 1 size fits all tuition fees so they could cut the fees to attract more students
Oh dear. But no name. Isn't that because MPs legislated to protect themselves? Or am I muddling?
Don't names only appear when someone is charged? Police will often only say someone of certain description was arrested.
Given the common reaction when someone is investigated, let alone arrested, it is almost surprising an MP wasn't 'persuaded' to stand down when they were arrested in 2013 on similar charges, and indeed have rebuilt their career since.
Incidentally people were talking earlier about the importance of history. Roehampton have told staff they are making swingeing cuts in their very highly regarded History department.
Well they charge history students £9,000 for the privilege if they are not attracting enough students for it another reason we should not have 1 size fits all tuition fees so they could cut the fees to attract more students
There's no such thing as one size fees. It's the VCs putting them up to the limit, not HMG enforcing a lower limit.
Incidentally people were talking earlier about the importance of history. Roehampton have told staff they are making swingeing cuts in their very highly regarded History department.
Well they charge history students £9,000 for the privilege if they are not attracting enough students for it another reason we should not have 1 size fits all tuition fees so they could cut the fees to attract more students
I find myself in agreement with you on that point, as it happens.
However, I have to say I think this goes far wider than tuition fees. Caps for non-Russell group unis while allowing Russell Group to recruit far beyond their capacity and the shambolic rewriting of History A-level are all playing a part and are both incredibly damaging.
The whole government HE policy is almost as big a shambles as their secondary education policy, which is saying something.
Incidentally people were talking earlier about the importance of history. Roehampton have told staff they are making swingeing cuts in their very highly regarded History department.
Well they charge history students £9,000 for the privilege if they are not attracting enough students for it another reason we should not have 1 size fits all tuition fees so they could cut the fees to attract more students
There's no such thing as one size fees. It's the VCs putting them up to the limit, not HMG enforcing a lower limit.
Well they can cut the fees then for arts and humanities subjects which attract less demand than subjects like Business, Law and Medicine and Tech for which there will always be enough demand to charge full fees as they have the highest graduate earnings
Incidentally people were talking earlier about the importance of history. Roehampton have told staff they are making swingeing cuts in their very highly regarded History department.
Well they charge history students £9,000 for the privilege if they are not attracting enough students for it another reason we should not have 1 size fits all tuition fees so they could cut the fees to attract more students
Absolutely. How the hell can it cost a University £9k a year to teach history to under graduates? It’s a disgraceful rip off.
Incidentally people were talking earlier about the importance of history. Roehampton have told staff they are making swingeing cuts in their very highly regarded History department.
Well they charge history students £9,000 for the privilege if they are not attracting enough students for it another reason we should not have 1 size fits all tuition fees so they could cut the fees to attract more students
I find myself in agreement with you on that point, as it happens.
However, I have to say I think this goes far wider than tuition fees. Caps for non-Russell group unis while allowing Russell Group to recruit far beyond their capacity and the shambolic rewriting of History A-level are all playing a part and are both incredibly damaging.
The whole government HE policy is almost as big a shambles as their secondary education policy, which is saying something.
Incidentally people were talking earlier about the importance of history. Roehampton have told staff they are making swingeing cuts in their very highly regarded History department.
Well they charge history students £9,000 for the privilege if they are not attracting enough students for it another reason we should not have 1 size fits all tuition fees so they could cut the fees to attract more students
There's no such thing as one size fees. It's the VCs putting them up to the limit, not HMG enforcing a lower limit.
That’s what happens when the State underwrites the loans, there’s no incentive to try and be price-competitive.
Incidentally people were talking earlier about the importance of history. Roehampton have told staff they are making swingeing cuts in their very highly regarded History department.
Well they charge history students £9,000 for the privilege if they are not attracting enough students for it another reason we should not have 1 size fits all tuition fees so they could cut the fees to attract more students
There's no such thing as one size fees. It's the VCs putting them up to the limit, not HMG enforcing a lower limit.
Partly because more expensive courses can't charge economic rates. So cheaper ones have to subsidise them.
It's a total shambles. Like the energy price cap only on a larger scale and with probably more far reaching consequences.
Incidentally people were talking earlier about the importance of history. Roehampton have told staff they are making swingeing cuts in their very highly regarded History department.
Well they charge history students £9,000 for the privilege if they are not attracting enough students for it another reason we should not have 1 size fits all tuition fees so they could cut the fees to attract more students
I find myself in agreement with you on that point, as it happens.
However, I have to say I think this goes far wider than tuition fees. Caps for non-Russell group unis while allowing Russell Group to recruit far beyond their capacity and the shambolic rewriting of History A-level are all playing a part and are both incredibly damaging.
The whole government HE policy is almost as big a shambles as their secondary education policy, which is saying something.
I wonder if Mr Tractor is standing as an independent? He's certainly got a lot of publicity lately.
He’s ploughing a lonely furrow, surely.
Oh Deere
We've herd all these before.
Yes but it depends how well articulated they are
Can we not Combine them all in one post?
Definitely the corniest pun so far.
Worth the wheat I hope
Barley worth it though.
It's a solitary burden to bere.
I am not sure there is oat else to make puns about now.
I'll millet over.
Oil seed what I can think of....
It's a teff one.
Time for me to get some supper (not sure I can manage a whole meal) , so you can scythe a scythe of relief that you don't need to think of any more chaffing puns.
Incidentally people were talking earlier about the importance of history. Roehampton have told staff they are making swingeing cuts in their very highly regarded History department.
Well they charge history students £9,000 for the privilege if they are not attracting enough students for it another reason we should not have 1 size fits all tuition fees so they could cut the fees to attract more students
Absolutely. How the hell can it cost a University £9k a year to teach history to under graduates? It’s a disgraceful rip off.
It doesn't cost them £9k a year. History students subsidise Engineering students (for example).
Regardless of one's view on tuition fees, this has always been the case to a large extent. Some subjects cost one hell of a lot more to teach, and that's either covered by general taxation (which History students go on to pay as much as anyone) or loan repayments (which History students go on to pay, albeit binmen don't).
I don't see your route around that, other than to make Engineering courses more expensive to cut fees for Historians. And that seems brave, minister.
I'm really struggling with @hyufd's logic here so I may need correcting but I think it is something like this:
If you lose an election or a referendum you have to suck it up. No compromise to the losing side no matter how close the result is. Implement to the extreme and any disobedience put down with the utmost force.
If you lose an election or referendum, but happen to be a Tory, Unionist, Right Wing or whatever then your views have to be taken into account even if that means forming an unviable enclave and you must give way to any threat of violence.
Northern Ireland was created by the threat of violence via the armed Ulster volunteers. Loyalist paramilitaries still exist.
I have yet to see see any significant terrorism from Scottish Nationalists over the 2014 referendum loss or Remainers over the 2016 referendum loss or indeed from unionists and Tories who were on the beaten side in the 1997 Scottish devolution referendum.
Northern Ireland has a history of recent internal violence the rest of the UK does not so must be handled with special care
OK, so lets play the two scenarios.
In NornIron you've said that the will of some of the residents of Lisburn - a minority - mean that the "boundaries can be redrawn" if need be, with the majority booted into the republic. If that means crazy enclaves then thats ok with you, because they are armed.
In Scotland the majority want a vote on their future. Not terrorism. Not even UDI, jut a vote. You are so against it you're practically volunteering to drive a tank in the special military operation to crush the Scotch.
You can't see the screaming absurdity and hypocrisy of your position?
No, Scotland does not have a history of terrorism unlike Northern Ireland so the situations are not comparable
It is beyond belief that you don't understand this. We all agree there is no history of terrorism in Scotland or by Remainers, but what you are saying is that if they did take up arms you would capitulate, but if they are peaceful they should be put down with utmost force and no quarter given, even to the extent of using tanks at demos.
And you don't see how dangerous that is and just encourages terrorism. What deranged person would not think, I have nothing to lose by taking up the armalite like the guys over in NI.
Northern Ireland was only created because of threat of violence in the remaining Protestant loyalist areas if forced into the Irish Free State against their will.
Scotland has no history of terrorism or militant violence like Northern Ireland so the brutal reality is the UK government can refuse an indyref2 without risk of terrorist retaliation from the SNP in the way they could not impose a hard border in Ireland without the risk of terrorist violence from the IRA, the ex military wing of SF.
The GFA only came about too because of the need to end terrorist violence in NI. You may not like it but that is the reality.
Now of course violence by Scottish Nationalists or Remainers would not guarantee this Tory government listened to them, the UK government defied the IRA for decades but it did ultimately lead to a settlement in NI
You just keep ignoring counter arguments and repeat the same nonsense which just encourages terrorism.
So you believe terrorism is valid to achieve your aims and people who don't resort to terrorism should be ignored.
One thing is for sure. Something is dreadfully wrong in the culture at Westminster.
Tractor porn seems positively innocuous already by comparison - and yet that was very nasty for the female MPs who saw Mr Tractor with his little screen.
Incidentally people were talking earlier about the importance of history. Roehampton have told staff they are making swingeing cuts in their very highly regarded History department.
Well they charge history students £9,000 for the privilege if they are not attracting enough students for it another reason we should not have 1 size fits all tuition fees so they could cut the fees to attract more students
Absolutely. How the hell can it cost a University £9k a year to teach history to under graduates? It’s a disgraceful rip off.
It doesn't cost them £9k a year. History students subsidise Engineering students (for example).
Regardless of one's view on tuition fees, this has always been the case to a large extent. Some subjects cost one hell of a lot more to teach, and that's either covered by general taxation (which History students go on to pay as much as anyone) or loan repayments (which History students go on to pay, albeit binmen don't).
I don't see your route around that, other than to make Engineering courses more expensive to cut fees for Historians. And that seems brave, minister.
I would not make STEM subjects more expensive as we need more of those but I would certainly allow universities to charge higher fees for business studies, MBAs, economics, law etc for which there is huge demand and which we probably already produce more than enough graduates in anyway. They can then subsidise engineers and medics rather than historians and history degree fees can in turn be cut
BREAKING: Tory whips confirm they've asked an MP to stay away from Parliament after he was arrested for alleged sexual assault, indecent assault & rape.
“The Chief Whip has asked that the MP concerned does not attend the Parliamentary Estate while an investigation is ongoing."
Sky reporting upto 50 mps are currently under investigation for sex and sexual assault allegations
It just makes you despair at the lack of integrity and decency by the political classes
The old adage about power bring an aphrodisiac really just means those in power abusing it to abuse others. Time that was ended once and for all. Be kind. Be good. And if you can't be kind and good, fuck off.
Hey Woolie, sorry to hear of your travails. So glad you are getting some attention
If it helps, I was down there in the darkness, with the black dog howling, during the worst of Covid - just like you. I split with my wife partly for Covid reasons (a painful split as we were still very close), then I had to face lockdown 3 - the winter one - all alone in a one bed flat in Camden when every single thing that usually keeps me sane - from friends to pubs to sun to restaurants to travel to art galleries and sex - was taken away from me. I felt actually suicidal a few times, and - weirder and somehow worse - later I behaved suicidally - eg driving at 140mph at noon for no reason
Crazy shit
I am very glad I did not do myself in. I am now in a much much happier place - I still have my mood swings but they are normal. I will always have them. What happened during Covid was an order of magnitude worse than the average bipolar blues
Anyway. Stick in there. And stay on PB. I found it an invaluable source of company at my loneliest moments….
Thank you Leon. The small flat, alone; where once youth and beauty shone, I get 100% I'm something of a physical and mental wretch now. Disabled with horrors ravaging the insides. Has been quite the culture shock as i used to think myself indestructible, immortal, unstoppable. But I'm not. I'm a young old man who plays chess and remembers when life was bar lights and pretty girls who now have fled further even than the time that separates us. But I'm Woolie. And I always will be. I've been strangling black dogs since i was 10. Fuck em. I've seen enough to laugh at the pompous, the famous, the pretenders and the cruel. Just a lad from working class stock who got given a brain and a grin and has rinsed the shit out of both.
I'm really struggling with @hyufd's logic here so I may need correcting but I think it is something like this:
If you lose an election or a referendum you have to suck it up. No compromise to the losing side no matter how close the result is. Implement to the extreme and any disobedience put down with the utmost force.
If you lose an election or referendum, but happen to be a Tory, Unionist, Right Wing or whatever then your views have to be taken into account even if that means forming an unviable enclave and you must give way to any threat of violence.
Northern Ireland was created by the threat of violence via the armed Ulster volunteers. Loyalist paramilitaries still exist.
I have yet to see see any significant terrorism from Scottish Nationalists over the 2014 referendum loss or Remainers over the 2016 referendum loss or indeed from unionists and Tories who were on the beaten side in the 1997 Scottish devolution referendum.
Northern Ireland has a history of recent internal violence the rest of the UK does not so must be handled with special care
OK, so lets play the two scenarios.
In NornIron you've said that the will of some of the residents of Lisburn - a minority - mean that the "boundaries can be redrawn" if need be, with the majority booted into the republic. If that means crazy enclaves then thats ok with you, because they are armed.
In Scotland the majority want a vote on their future. Not terrorism. Not even UDI, jut a vote. You are so against it you're practically volunteering to drive a tank in the special military operation to crush the Scotch.
You can't see the screaming absurdity and hypocrisy of your position?
No, Scotland does not have a history of terrorism unlike Northern Ireland so the situations are not comparable
It is beyond belief that you don't understand this. We all agree there is no history of terrorism in Scotland or by Remainers, but what you are saying is that if they did take up arms you would capitulate, but if they are peaceful they should be put down with utmost force and no quarter given, even to the extent of using tanks at demos.
And you don't see how dangerous that is and just encourages terrorism. What deranged person would not think, I have nothing to lose by taking up the armalite like the guys over in NI.
Northern Ireland was only created because of threat of violence in the remaining Protestant loyalist areas if forced into the Irish Free State against their will.
Scotland has no history of terrorism or militant violence like Northern Ireland so the brutal reality is the UK government can refuse an indyref2 without risk of terrorist retaliation from the SNP in the way they could not impose a hard border in Ireland without the risk of terrorist violence from the IRA, the ex military wing of SF.
The GFA only came about too because of the need to end terrorist violence in NI. You may not like it but that is the reality.
Now of course violence by Scottish Nationalists or Remainers would not guarantee this Tory government listened to them, the UK government defied the IRA for decades but it did ultimately lead to a settlement in NI
You just keep ignoring counter arguments and repeat the same nonsense which just encourages terrorism.
So you believe terrorism is valid to achieve your aims and people who don't resort to terrorism should be ignored.
It's also a complete rewriting of history that ignores the 30-year history of the civil rights movement and the attempts to make powersharing work.
One thing is for sure. Something is dreadfully wrong in the culture at Westminster.
Westminster is one of the eeriest places I’ve ever been in terms of obvious excess testosterone, badly disguised
Lots of alpha or would-be alpha males hoping to use power to get sex. And of course, for balance, there are surely predatory women as well
I presume politics has always attracted this type (and no doubt many are perfectly nice and don’t cross any lines), the difference now is that they are in collision with a less “permissive” culture
Incidentally people were talking earlier about the importance of history. Roehampton have told staff they are making swingeing cuts in their very highly regarded History department.
Well they charge history students £9,000 for the privilege if they are not attracting enough students for it another reason we should not have 1 size fits all tuition fees so they could cut the fees to attract more students
Absolutely. How the hell can it cost a University £9k a year to teach history to under graduates? It’s a disgraceful rip off.
It doesn't cost them £9k a year. History students subsidise Engineering students (for example).
Regardless of one's view on tuition fees, this has always been the case to a large extent. Some subjects cost one hell of a lot more to teach, and that's either covered by general taxation (which History students go on to pay as much as anyone) or loan repayments (which History students go on to pay, albeit binmen don't).
I don't see your route around that, other than to make Engineering courses more expensive to cut fees for Historians. And that seems brave, minister.
History graduates deserve preferential treatment and I absolutely have no conflict in stating that.
Incidentally people were talking earlier about the importance of history. Roehampton have told staff they are making swingeing cuts in their very highly regarded History department.
Well they charge history students £9,000 for the privilege if they are not attracting enough students for it another reason we should not have 1 size fits all tuition fees so they could cut the fees to attract more students
Absolutely. How the hell can it cost a University £9k a year to teach history to under graduates? It’s a disgraceful rip off.
It doesn't cost them £9k a year. History students subsidise Engineering students (for example).
Regardless of one's view on tuition fees, this has always been the case to a large extent. Some subjects cost one hell of a lot more to teach, and that's either covered by general taxation (which History students go on to pay as much as anyone) or loan repayments (which History students go on to pay, albeit binmen don't).
I don't see your route around that, other than to make Engineering courses more expensive to cut fees for Historians. And that seems brave, minister.
Incidentally people were talking earlier about the importance of history. Roehampton have told staff they are making swingeing cuts in their very highly regarded History department.
Well they charge history students £9,000 for the privilege if they are not attracting enough students for it another reason we should not have 1 size fits all tuition fees so they could cut the fees to attract more students
Absolutely. How the hell can it cost a University £9k a year to teach history to under graduates? It’s a disgraceful rip off.
It doesn't cost them £9k a year. History students subsidise Engineering students (for example).
Regardless of one's view on tuition fees, this has always been the case to a large extent. Some subjects cost one hell of a lot more to teach, and that's either covered by general taxation (which History students go on to pay as much as anyone) or loan repayments (which History students go on to pay, albeit binmen don't).
I don't see your route around that, other than to make Engineering courses more expensive to cut fees for Historians. And that seems brave, minister.
Incidentally people were talking earlier about the importance of history. Roehampton have told staff they are making swingeing cuts in their very highly regarded History department.
Well they charge history students £9,000 for the privilege if they are not attracting enough students for it another reason we should not have 1 size fits all tuition fees so they could cut the fees to attract more students
Absolutely. How the hell can it cost a University £9k a year to teach history to under graduates? It’s a disgraceful rip off.
It doesn't cost them £9k a year. History students subsidise Engineering students (for example).
Regardless of one's view on tuition fees, this has always been the case to a large extent. Some subjects cost one hell of a lot more to teach, and that's either covered by general taxation (which History students go on to pay as much as anyone) or loan repayments (which History students go on to pay, albeit binmen don't).
I don't see your route around that, other than to make Engineering courses more expensive to cut fees for Historians. And that seems brave, minister.
I would suggest that the solution is quite obvious. If we want more engineers ( and oh lord we do) then those courses for useful things ( see also science, medicine and technology) should be subsidised by the taxpayer, not the poor history, English or social science students being doomed to lives of low earnings, debt and ( god help us) voting Liberal Democrat. They suffer enough.
“We’re actually censoring the right and not the left.”
- Twitter employee to undercover #ProjectVeritas journalist
It pretty much backs up how I think Twitter has been operating so I am incline to believe.
BUT
This is one person talking, buy the context its a block talking to a girl in a bar or similar setting, he could well just be telling her whatever he thinks she what's to hear and/or impress her in order to impress her for, well, 'personal' reasons. it also is quite heavily edited, so maybe the if we had the whole video, it might be slightly more balanced.
One thing is for sure. Something is dreadfully wrong in the culture at Westminster.
Blackadder: Criminal record? Baldrick: Absolutely not. Blackadder: Oh come on Baldrick, you’re going to be an MP for God’s sake! I’ll just put fraud and sexual deviancy.
Incidentally people were talking earlier about the importance of history. Roehampton have told staff they are making swingeing cuts in their very highly regarded History department.
Well they charge history students £9,000 for the privilege if they are not attracting enough students for it another reason we should not have 1 size fits all tuition fees so they could cut the fees to attract more students
Absolutely. How the hell can it cost a University £9k a year to teach history to under graduates? It’s a disgraceful rip off.
It doesn't cost them £9k a year. History students subsidise Engineering students (for example).
Regardless of one's view on tuition fees, this has always been the case to a large extent. Some subjects cost one hell of a lot more to teach, and that's either covered by general taxation (which History students go on to pay as much as anyone) or loan repayments (which History students go on to pay, albeit binmen don't).
I don't see your route around that, other than to make Engineering courses more expensive to cut fees for Historians. And that seems brave, minister.
History graduates deserve preferential treatment and I absolutely have no conflict in stating that.
Incidentally people were talking earlier about the importance of history. Roehampton have told staff they are making swingeing cuts in their very highly regarded History department.
Well they charge history students £9,000 for the privilege if they are not attracting enough students for it another reason we should not have 1 size fits all tuition fees so they could cut the fees to attract more students
Absolutely. How the hell can it cost a University £9k a year to teach history to under graduates? It’s a disgraceful rip off.
It doesn't cost them £9k a year. History students subsidise Engineering students (for example).
Regardless of one's view on tuition fees, this has always been the case to a large extent. Some subjects cost one hell of a lot more to teach, and that's either covered by general taxation (which History students go on to pay as much as anyone) or loan repayments (which History students go on to pay, albeit binmen don't).
I don't see your route around that, other than to make Engineering courses more expensive to cut fees for Historians. And that seems brave, minister.
And those history students are also subsidising research. The way research is funded by Government, the deal is Government usually pays 80% of what is called the full economic cost of doing a research project. So, I've been doing a bunch of COVID-19 research. That work has effectively been partly subsidised by humanities undergrads studying at my university and, even more, by overseas postgrads. Although we've just had the REF results announced, which dictates a pot of money for research unconnected to specific projects that goes to universities. How universities are funded is very weird.
BREAKING: Tory whips confirm they've asked an MP to stay away from Parliament after he was arrested for alleged sexual assault, indecent assault & rape.
“The Chief Whip has asked that the MP concerned does not attend the Parliamentary Estate while an investigation is ongoing."
Sky reporting upto 50 mps are currently under investigation for sex and sexual assault allegations
It just makes you despair at the lack of integrity and decency by the political classes
The old adage about power bring an aphrodisiac really just means those in power abusing it to abuse others. Time that was ended once and for all. Be kind. Be good. And if you can't be kind and good, fuck off.
Hey Woolie, sorry to hear of your travails. So glad you are getting some attention
If it helps, I was down there in the darkness, with the black dog howling, during the worst of Covid - just like you. I split with my wife partly for Covid reasons (a painful split as we were still very close), then I had to face lockdown 3 - the winter one - all alone in a one bed flat in Camden when every single thing that usually keeps me sane - from friends to pubs to sun to restaurants to travel to art galleries and sex - was taken away from me. I felt actually suicidal a few times, and - weirder and somehow worse - later I behaved suicidally - eg driving at 140mph at noon for no reason
Crazy shit
I am very glad I did not do myself in. I am now in a much much happier place - I still have my mood swings but they are normal. I will always have them. What happened during Covid was an order of magnitude worse than the average bipolar blues
Anyway. Stick in there. And stay on PB. I found it an invaluable source of company at my loneliest moments….
Thank you Leon. The small flat, alone; where once youth and beauty shone, I get 100% I'm something of a physical and mental wretch now. Disabled with horrors ravaging the insides. Has been quite the culture shock as i used to think myself indestructible, immortal, unstoppable. But I'm not. Now I'm a young old man who plays chess and remembers when life was bar lights and pretty girls who now have fled further even than the time that separates us. But I'm Woolie. And I always will be. I've been strangling black dogs since i was 10. Fuck em. I've seen enough to laugh at the pompous, the famous, the pretenders and the cruel. Just a lad from working class stock who got given a brain and a grin and has rinsed the shit out of both.
I can only hope you feel better soon.
When I was a kid, I felt low - I guess we all do. "The world doesn't understand me" Adrian Mole-style pretentious crap. Having talked to people since, I realised that although I felt low, the black dog never stalked me. I've always been someone who is more 'up' than 'down'. Even when I got told I would never walk properly again, when I had a first operation only to find a friend had died - even through the bad times, it never stalked me.
But I have seen enough people 'down' to realise the black dog is real, and that I've been blooming lucky.
Oddly, I've never seen myself as indestructible, immortal or unstoppable. Quite the opposite. Yet depression has never really been a problem. Odd, really.
Incidentally people were talking earlier about the importance of history. Roehampton have told staff they are making swingeing cuts in their very highly regarded History department.
Well they charge history students £9,000 for the privilege if they are not attracting enough students for it another reason we should not have 1 size fits all tuition fees so they could cut the fees to attract more students
Absolutely. How the hell can it cost a University £9k a year to teach history to under graduates? It’s a disgraceful rip off.
It doesn't cost them £9k a year. History students subsidise Engineering students (for example).
Regardless of one's view on tuition fees, this has always been the case to a large extent. Some subjects cost one hell of a lot more to teach, and that's either covered by general taxation (which History students go on to pay as much as anyone) or loan repayments (which History students go on to pay, albeit binmen don't).
I don't see your route around that, other than to make Engineering courses more expensive to cut fees for Historians. And that seems brave, minister.
History graduates deserve preferential treatment and I absolutely have no conflict in stating that.
nudge nudge, wink wink?
On reflection, and at the advice of my lawyers, I wish to clarifty my remarks and make clear that any suggestion I concealed my status as a history graduate, and sought to enrich myself through deception, is quite mistaken, and anyone who read that in my words is a dirty liar.
BREAKING: Tory whips confirm they've asked an MP to stay away from Parliament after he was arrested for alleged sexual assault, indecent assault & rape.
“The Chief Whip has asked that the MP concerned does not attend the Parliamentary Estate while an investigation is ongoing."
Sky reporting upto 50 mps are currently under investigation for sex and sexual assault allegations
It just makes you despair at the lack of integrity and decency by the political classes
The old adage about power bring an aphrodisiac really just means those in power abusing it to abuse others. Time that was ended once and for all. Be kind. Be good. And if you can't be kind and good, fuck off.
Hey Woolie, sorry to hear of your travails. So glad you are getting some attention
If it helps, I was down there in the darkness, with the black dog howling, during the worst of Covid - just like you. I split with my wife partly for Covid reasons (a painful split as we were still very close), then I had to face lockdown 3 - the winter one - all alone in a one bed flat in Camden when every single thing that usually keeps me sane - from friends to pubs to sun to restaurants to travel to art galleries and sex - was taken away from me. I felt actually suicidal a few times, and - weirder and somehow worse - later I behaved suicidally - eg driving at 140mph at noon for no reason
Crazy shit
I am very glad I did not do myself in. I am now in a much much happier place - I still have my mood swings but they are normal. I will always have them. What happened during Covid was an order of magnitude worse than the average bipolar blues
Anyway. Stick in there. And stay on PB. I found it an invaluable source of company at my loneliest moments….
Thank you Leon. The small flat, alone; where once youth and beauty shone, I get 100% I'm something of a physical and mental wretch now. Disabled with horrors ravaging the insides. Has been quite the culture shock as i used to think myself indestructible, immortal, unstoppable. But I'm not. I'm a young old man who plays chess and remembers when life was bar lights and pretty girls who now have fled further even than the time that separates us. But I'm Woolie. And I always will be. I've been strangling black dogs since i was 10. Fuck em. I've seen enough to laugh at the pompous, the famous, the pretenders and the cruel. Just a lad from working class stock who got given a brain and a grin and has rinsed the shit out of both.
That’s the spirit! And remember, ‘twas ever thus. Sir Thomas Wyatt captured the mood perfectly. Way back in the early 16th century….
They flee from me that sometime did me seek With naked foot, stalking in my chamber. I have seen them gentle, tame, and meek, That now are wild and do not remember That sometime they put themself in danger To take bread at my hand; and now they range, Busily seeking with a continual change.
Thanked be fortune it hath been otherwise Twenty times better; but once in special, In thin array after a pleasant guise, When her loose gown from her shoulders did fall, And she me caught in her arms long and small; Therewithall sweetly did me kiss And softly said, “Dear heart, how like you this?”
It was no dream: I lay broad waking. But all is turned thorough my gentleness Into a strange fashion of forsaking; And I have leave to go of her goodness, And she also, to use newfangleness. But since that I so kindly am served I would fain know what she hath deserved.
Incidentally people were talking earlier about the importance of history. Roehampton have told staff they are making swingeing cuts in their very highly regarded History department.
Well they charge history students £9,000 for the privilege if they are not attracting enough students for it another reason we should not have 1 size fits all tuition fees so they could cut the fees to attract more students
Absolutely. How the hell can it cost a University £9k a year to teach history to under graduates? It’s a disgraceful rip off.
It doesn't cost them £9k a year. History students subsidise Engineering students (for example).
Regardless of one's view on tuition fees, this has always been the case to a large extent. Some subjects cost one hell of a lot more to teach, and that's either covered by general taxation (which History students go on to pay as much as anyone) or loan repayments (which History students go on to pay, albeit binmen don't).
I don't see your route around that, other than to make Engineering courses more expensive to cut fees for Historians. And that seems brave, minister.
History graduates deserve preferential treatment and I absolutely have no conflict in stating that.
nudge nudge, wink wink?
On reflection, and at the advice of my lawyers, I wish to clarifty my remarks and make clear that any suggestion I concealed my status as a history graduate, and sought to enrich myself through deception, is quite mistaken, and anyone who read that in my words is a dirty liar.
hehehe
nice one.
I have no problem in also recommending that Physics and Maths degrees should be free tuition!
Incidentally people were talking earlier about the importance of history. Roehampton have told staff they are making swingeing cuts in their very highly regarded History department.
Well they charge history students £9,000 for the privilege if they are not attracting enough students for it another reason we should not have 1 size fits all tuition fees so they could cut the fees to attract more students
Absolutely. How the hell can it cost a University £9k a year to teach history to under graduates? It’s a disgraceful rip off.
It doesn't cost them £9k a year. History students subsidise Engineering students (for example).
Regardless of one's view on tuition fees, this has always been the case to a large extent. Some subjects cost one hell of a lot more to teach, and that's either covered by general taxation (which History students go on to pay as much as anyone) or loan repayments (which History students go on to pay, albeit binmen don't).
I don't see your route around that, other than to make Engineering courses more expensive to cut fees for Historians. And that seems brave, minister.
Incidentally people were talking earlier about the importance of history. Roehampton have told staff they are making swingeing cuts in their very highly regarded History department.
Well they charge history students £9,000 for the privilege if they are not attracting enough students for it another reason we should not have 1 size fits all tuition fees so they could cut the fees to attract more students
Absolutely. How the hell can it cost a University £9k a year to teach history to under graduates? It’s a disgraceful rip off.
It doesn't cost them £9k a year. History students subsidise Engineering students (for example).
Regardless of one's view on tuition fees, this has always been the case to a large extent. Some subjects cost one hell of a lot more to teach, and that's either covered by general taxation (which History students go on to pay as much as anyone) or loan repayments (which History students go on to pay, albeit binmen don't).
I don't see your route around that, other than to make Engineering courses more expensive to cut fees for Historians. And that seems brave, minister.
Incidentally people were talking earlier about the importance of history. Roehampton have told staff they are making swingeing cuts in their very highly regarded History department.
Well they charge history students £9,000 for the privilege if they are not attracting enough students for it another reason we should not have 1 size fits all tuition fees so they could cut the fees to attract more students
Absolutely. How the hell can it cost a University £9k a year to teach history to under graduates? It’s a disgraceful rip off.
It doesn't cost them £9k a year. History students subsidise Engineering students (for example).
Regardless of one's view on tuition fees, this has always been the case to a large extent. Some subjects cost one hell of a lot more to teach, and that's either covered by general taxation (which History students go on to pay as much as anyone) or loan repayments (which History students go on to pay, albeit binmen don't).
I don't see your route around that, other than to make Engineering courses more expensive to cut fees for Historians. And that seems brave, minister.
I would suggest that the solution is quite obvious. If we want more engineers ( and oh lord we do) then those courses for useful things ( see also science, medicine and technology) should be subsidised by the taxpayer, not the poor history, English or social science students being doomed to lives of low earnings, debt and ( god help us) voting Liberal Democrat. They suffer enough.
With fascism resurgent in the US, Hungary and half a dozen other places, with a major war between 2 European countries breaking out, with politicians trying to re-write history (as we were discussing on the last thread, IIRC), I kinda think people who understand history is exactly who we need right now.
BREAKING: Tory whips confirm they've asked an MP to stay away from Parliament after he was arrested for alleged sexual assault, indecent assault & rape.
“The Chief Whip has asked that the MP concerned does not attend the Parliamentary Estate while an investigation is ongoing."
Sky reporting upto 50 mps are currently under investigation for sex and sexual assault allegations
It just makes you despair at the lack of integrity and decency by the political classes
The old adage about power bring an aphrodisiac really just means those in power abusing it to abuse others. Time that was ended once and for all. Be kind. Be good. And if you can't be kind and good, fuck off.
Hey Woolie, sorry to hear of your travails. So glad you are getting some attention
If it helps, I was down there in the darkness, with the black dog howling, during the worst of Covid - just like you. I split with my wife partly for Covid reasons (a painful split as we were still very close), then I had to face lockdown 3 - the winter one - all alone in a one bed flat in Camden when every single thing that usually keeps me sane - from friends to pubs to sun to restaurants to travel to art galleries and sex - was taken away from me. I felt actually suicidal a few times, and - weirder and somehow worse - later I behaved suicidally - eg driving at 140mph at noon for no reason
Crazy shit
I am very glad I did not do myself in. I am now in a much much happier place - I still have my mood swings but they are normal. I will always have them. What happened during Covid was an order of magnitude worse than the average bipolar blues
Anyway. Stick in there. And stay on PB. I found it an invaluable source of company at my loneliest moments….
Thank you Leon. The small flat, alone; where once youth and beauty shone, I get 100% I'm something of a physical and mental wretch now. Disabled with horrors ravaging the insides. Has been quite the culture shock as i used to think myself indestructible, immortal, unstoppable. But I'm not. Now I'm a young old man who plays chess and remembers when life was bar lights and pretty girls who now have fled further even than the time that separates us. But I'm Woolie. And I always will be. I've been strangling black dogs since i was 10. Fuck em. I've seen enough to laugh at the pompous, the famous, the pretenders and the cruel. Just a lad from working class stock who got given a brain and a grin and has rinsed the shit out of both.
I can only hope you feel better soon.
When I was a kid, I felt low - I guess we all do. "The world doesn't understand me" Adrian Mole-style pretentious crap. Having talked to people since, I realised that although I felt low, the black dog never stalked me. I've always been someone who is more 'up' than 'down'. Even when I got told I would never walk properly again, when I had a first operation only to find a friend had died - even through the bad times, it never stalked me.
But I have seen enough people 'down' to realise the black dog is real, and that I've been blooming lucky.
Oddly, I've never seen myself as indestructible, immortal or unstoppable. Quite the opposite. Yet depression has never really been a problem. Odd, really.
Me too. I sometimes think that a lack of imagination or insight is actually a blessing.
BREAKING: Tory whips confirm they've asked an MP to stay away from Parliament after he was arrested for alleged sexual assault, indecent assault & rape.
“The Chief Whip has asked that the MP concerned does not attend the Parliamentary Estate while an investigation is ongoing."
Sky reporting upto 50 mps are currently under investigation for sex and sexual assault allegations
It just makes you despair at the lack of integrity and decency by the political classes
The old adage about power bring an aphrodisiac really just means those in power abusing it to abuse others. Time that was ended once and for all. Be kind. Be good. And if you can't be kind and good, fuck off.
Hey Woolie, sorry to hear of your travails. So glad you are getting some attention
If it helps, I was down there in the darkness, with the black dog howling, during the worst of Covid - just like you. I split with my wife partly for Covid reasons (a painful split as we were still very close), then I had to face lockdown 3 - the winter one - all alone in a one bed flat in Camden when every single thing that usually keeps me sane - from friends to pubs to sun to restaurants to travel to art galleries and sex - was taken away from me. I felt actually suicidal a few times, and - weirder and somehow worse - later I behaved suicidally - eg driving at 140mph at noon for no reason
Crazy shit
I am very glad I did not do myself in. I am now in a much much happier place - I still have my mood swings but they are normal. I will always have them. What happened during Covid was an order of magnitude worse than the average bipolar blues
Anyway. Stick in there. And stay on PB. I found it an invaluable source of company at my loneliest moments….
Thank you Leon. The small flat, alone; where once youth and beauty shone, I get 100% I'm something of a physical and mental wretch now. Disabled with horrors ravaging the insides. Has been quite the culture shock as i used to think myself indestructible, immortal, unstoppable. But I'm not. I'm a young old man who plays chess and remembers when life was bar lights and pretty girls who now have fled further even than the time that separates us. But I'm Woolie. And I always will be. I've been strangling black dogs since i was 10. Fuck em. I've seen enough to laugh at the pompous, the famous, the pretenders and the cruel. Just a lad from working class stock who got given a brain and a grin and has rinsed the shit out of both.
That’s the spirit! And remember, ‘twas ever thus. Sir Thomas Wyatt captured the mood perfectly. Way back in the early 16th century….
They flee from me that sometime did me seek With naked foot, stalking in my chamber. I have seen them gentle, tame, and meek, That now are wild and do not remember That sometime they put themself in danger To take bread at my hand; and now they range, Busily seeking with a continual change.
Thanked be fortune it hath been otherwise Twenty times better; but once in special, In thin array after a pleasant guise, When her loose gown from her shoulders did fall, And she me caught in her arms long and small; Therewithall sweetly did me kiss And softly said, “Dear heart, how like you this?”
It was no dream: I lay broad waking. But all is turned thorough my gentleness Into a strange fashion of forsaking; And I have leave to go of her goodness, And she also, to use newfangleness. But since that I so kindly am served I would fain know what she hath deserved.
A little Leigh Hunt Jenny kiss’d me when we met,
Jumping from the chair she sat in;
Time, you thief, who love to get
Sweets into your list, put that in!
Say I’m weary, say I’m sad,
Say that health and wealth have miss’d me,
Say I’m growing old, but add,
Jenny kiss’d me.
Or, on a wistful day, my favourite poem, The Lost Love by Wordsworth
She dwelt among the untrodden ways Beside the springs of Dove; A maid whom there were none to praise, And very few to love.
A violet by a mossy stone Half hidden from the eye! —Fair as a star, when only one Is shining in the sky.
She lived unknown, and few could know When Lucy ceased to be; But she is in her grave, and O! The difference to me!
I'm really struggling with @hyufd's logic here so I may need correcting but I think it is something like this:
If you lose an election or a referendum you have to suck it up. No compromise to the losing side no matter how close the result is. Implement to the extreme and any disobedience put down with the utmost force.
If you lose an election or referendum, but happen to be a Tory, Unionist, Right Wing or whatever then your views have to be taken into account even if that means forming an unviable enclave and you must give way to any threat of violence.
Northern Ireland was created by the threat of violence via the armed Ulster volunteers. Loyalist paramilitaries still exist.
I have yet to see see any significant terrorism from Scottish Nationalists over the 2014 referendum loss or Remainers over the 2016 referendum loss or indeed from unionists and Tories who were on the beaten side in the 1997 Scottish devolution referendum.
Northern Ireland has a history of recent internal violence the rest of the UK does not so must be handled with special care
OK, so lets play the two scenarios.
In NornIron you've said that the will of some of the residents of Lisburn - a minority - mean that the "boundaries can be redrawn" if need be, with the majority booted into the republic. If that means crazy enclaves then thats ok with you, because they are armed.
In Scotland the majority want a vote on their future. Not terrorism. Not even UDI, jut a vote. You are so against it you're practically volunteering to drive a tank in the special military operation to crush the Scotch.
You can't see the screaming absurdity and hypocrisy of your position?
No, Scotland does not have a history of terrorism unlike Northern Ireland so the situations are not comparable
It is beyond belief that you don't understand this. We all agree there is no history of terrorism in Scotland or by Remainers, but what you are saying is that if they did take up arms you would capitulate, but if they are peaceful they should be put down with utmost force and no quarter given, even to the extent of using tanks at demos.
And you don't see how dangerous that is and just encourages terrorism. What deranged person would not think, I have nothing to lose by taking up the armalite like the guys over in NI.
Northern Ireland was only created because of threat of violence in the remaining Protestant loyalist areas if forced into the Irish Free State against their will.
Scotland has no history of terrorism or militant violence like Northern Ireland so the brutal reality is the UK government can refuse an indyref2 without risk of terrorist retaliation from the SNP in the way they could not impose a hard border in Ireland without the risk of terrorist violence from the IRA, the ex military wing of SF.
The GFA only came about too because of the need to end terrorist violence in NI. You may not like it but that is the reality.
Now of course violence by Scottish Nationalists or Remainers would not guarantee this Tory government listened to them, the UK government defied the IRA for decades but it did ultimately lead to a settlement in NI
You just keep ignoring counter arguments and repeat the same nonsense which just encourages terrorism.
So you believe terrorism is valid to achieve your aims and people who don't resort to terrorism should be ignored.
It's also a complete rewriting of history that ignores the 30-year history of the civil rights movement and the attempts to make powersharing work.
Incidentally people were talking earlier about the importance of history. Roehampton have told staff they are making swingeing cuts in their very highly regarded History department.
Well they charge history students £9,000 for the privilege if they are not attracting enough students for it another reason we should not have 1 size fits all tuition fees so they could cut the fees to attract more students
Absolutely. How the hell can it cost a University £9k a year to teach history to under graduates? It’s a disgraceful rip off.
It doesn't cost them £9k a year. History students subsidise Engineering students (for example).
Regardless of one's view on tuition fees, this has always been the case to a large extent. Some subjects cost one hell of a lot more to teach, and that's either covered by general taxation (which History students go on to pay as much as anyone) or loan repayments (which History students go on to pay, albeit binmen don't).
I don't see your route around that, other than to make Engineering courses more expensive to cut fees for Historians. And that seems brave, minister.
Incidentally people were talking earlier about the importance of history. Roehampton have told staff they are making swingeing cuts in their very highly regarded History department.
Well they charge history students £9,000 for the privilege if they are not attracting enough students for it another reason we should not have 1 size fits all tuition fees so they could cut the fees to attract more students
Absolutely. How the hell can it cost a University £9k a year to teach history to under graduates? It’s a disgraceful rip off.
It doesn't cost them £9k a year. History students subsidise Engineering students (for example).
Regardless of one's view on tuition fees, this has always been the case to a large extent. Some subjects cost one hell of a lot more to teach, and that's either covered by general taxation (which History students go on to pay as much as anyone) or loan repayments (which History students go on to pay, albeit binmen don't).
I don't see your route around that, other than to make Engineering courses more expensive to cut fees for Historians. And that seems brave, minister.
Incidentally people were talking earlier about the importance of history. Roehampton have told staff they are making swingeing cuts in their very highly regarded History department.
Well they charge history students £9,000 for the privilege if they are not attracting enough students for it another reason we should not have 1 size fits all tuition fees so they could cut the fees to attract more students
Absolutely. How the hell can it cost a University £9k a year to teach history to under graduates? It’s a disgraceful rip off.
It doesn't cost them £9k a year. History students subsidise Engineering students (for example).
Regardless of one's view on tuition fees, this has always been the case to a large extent. Some subjects cost one hell of a lot more to teach, and that's either covered by general taxation (which History students go on to pay as much as anyone) or loan repayments (which History students go on to pay, albeit binmen don't).
I don't see your route around that, other than to make Engineering courses more expensive to cut fees for Historians. And that seems brave, minister.
I would suggest that the solution is quite obvious. If we want more engineers ( and oh lord we do) then those courses for useful things ( see also science, medicine and technology) should be subsidised by the taxpayer, not the poor history, English or social science students being doomed to lives of low earnings, debt and ( god help us) voting Liberal Democrat. They suffer enough.
With fascism resurgent in the US, Hungary and half a dozen other places, with a major war between 2 European countries breaking out, with politicians trying to re-write history (as we were discussing on the last thread, IIRC), I kinda think people who understand history is exactly who we need right now.
BREAKING: Tory whips confirm they've asked an MP to stay away from Parliament after he was arrested for alleged sexual assault, indecent assault & rape.
“The Chief Whip has asked that the MP concerned does not attend the Parliamentary Estate while an investigation is ongoing."
Sky reporting upto 50 mps are currently under investigation for sex and sexual assault allegations
It just makes you despair at the lack of integrity and decency by the political classes
The old adage about power bring an aphrodisiac really just means those in power abusing it to abuse others. Time that was ended once and for all. Be kind. Be good. And if you can't be kind and good, fuck off.
Hey Woolie, sorry to hear of your travails. So glad you are getting some attention
If it helps, I was down there in the darkness, with the black dog howling, during the worst of Covid - just like you. I split with my wife partly for Covid reasons (a painful split as we were still very close), then I had to face lockdown 3 - the winter one - all alone in a one bed flat in Camden when every single thing that usually keeps me sane - from friends to pubs to sun to restaurants to travel to art galleries and sex - was taken away from me. I felt actually suicidal a few times, and - weirder and somehow worse - later I behaved suicidally - eg driving at 140mph at noon for no reason
Crazy shit
I am very glad I did not do myself in. I am now in a much much happier place - I still have my mood swings but they are normal. I will always have them. What happened during Covid was an order of magnitude worse than the average bipolar blues
Anyway. Stick in there. And stay on PB. I found it an invaluable source of company at my loneliest moments….
Most of the lockdowns should never have happened of course.
Incidentally people were talking earlier about the importance of history. Roehampton have told staff they are making swingeing cuts in their very highly regarded History department.
Well they charge history students £9,000 for the privilege if they are not attracting enough students for it another reason we should not have 1 size fits all tuition fees so they could cut the fees to attract more students
Absolutely. How the hell can it cost a University £9k a year to teach history to under graduates? It’s a disgraceful rip off.
It doesn't cost them £9k a year. History students subsidise Engineering students (for example).
Regardless of one's view on tuition fees, this has always been the case to a large extent. Some subjects cost one hell of a lot more to teach, and that's either covered by general taxation (which History students go on to pay as much as anyone) or loan repayments (which History students go on to pay, albeit binmen don't).
I don't see your route around that, other than to make Engineering courses more expensive to cut fees for Historians. And that seems brave, minister.
"Some subjects cost one hell of a lot more to teach, and that's either covered by general taxation (which History students go on to pay as much as anyone) or loan repayments (which History students go on to pay, albeit binmen don't)."
Or by closing the departments, as they cost too much to run.
I studied geological engineering at Queen Mary and Westfield (now just plain-old QM). Geo Eng is civil engineering plus geology - basically, the parts of civ eng that go on in the ground - foundations, tunnelling, etc. I did not finish my degree for personal reasons, so might be part of the problem, but QMW stopped civil engineering courses yonks ago.
You can apparently get "Environmental science with business management with a year abroad", or "Sustainable engineering with industrial experience", but civil engineering? The topic that literally builds the modern world? Nope.
BREAKING: Tory whips confirm they've asked an MP to stay away from Parliament after he was arrested for alleged sexual assault, indecent assault & rape.
“The Chief Whip has asked that the MP concerned does not attend the Parliamentary Estate while an investigation is ongoing."
Sky reporting upto 50 mps are currently under investigation for sex and sexual assault allegations
It just makes you despair at the lack of integrity and decency by the political classes
The old adage about power bring an aphrodisiac really just means those in power abusing it to abuse others. Time that was ended once and for all. Be kind. Be good. And if you can't be kind and good, fuck off.
Hey Woolie, sorry to hear of your travails. So glad you are getting some attention
If it helps, I was down there in the darkness, with the black dog howling, during the worst of Covid - just like you. I split with my wife partly for Covid reasons (a painful split as we were still very close), then I had to face lockdown 3 - the winter one - all alone in a one bed flat in Camden when every single thing that usually keeps me sane - from friends to pubs to sun to restaurants to travel to art galleries and sex - was taken away from me. I felt actually suicidal a few times, and - weirder and somehow worse - later I behaved suicidally - eg driving at 140mph at noon for no reason
Crazy shit
I am very glad I did not do myself in. I am now in a much much happier place - I still have my mood swings but they are normal. I will always have them. What happened during Covid was an order of magnitude worse than the average bipolar blues
Anyway. Stick in there. And stay on PB. I found it an invaluable source of company at my loneliest moments….
Thank you Leon. The small flat, alone; where once youth and beauty shone, I get 100% I'm something of a physical and mental wretch now. Disabled with horrors ravaging the insides. Has been quite the culture shock as i used to think myself indestructible, immortal, unstoppable. But I'm not. Now I'm a young old man who plays chess and remembers when life was bar lights and pretty girls who now have fled further even than the time that separates us. But I'm Woolie. And I always will be. I've been strangling black dogs since i was 10. Fuck em. I've seen enough to laugh at the pompous, the famous, the pretenders and the cruel. Just a lad from working class stock who got given a brain and a grin and has rinsed the shit out of both.
I can only hope you feel better soon.
When I was a kid, I felt low - I guess we all do. "The world doesn't understand me" Adrian Mole-style pretentious crap. Having talked to people since, I realised that although I felt low, the black dog never stalked me. I've always been someone who is more 'up' than 'down'. Even when I got told I would never walk properly again, when I had a first operation only to find a friend had died - even through the bad times, it never stalked me.
But I have seen enough people 'down' to realise the black dog is real, and that I've been blooming lucky.
Oddly, I've never seen myself as indestructible, immortal or unstoppable. Quite the opposite. Yet depression has never really been a problem. Odd, really.
The Black Dog is Very Real. Be thankful you have not encountered Old Shuck on a winter’s night, alone
Incidentally people were talking earlier about the importance of history. Roehampton have told staff they are making swingeing cuts in their very highly regarded History department.
Well they charge history students £9,000 for the privilege if they are not attracting enough students for it another reason we should not have 1 size fits all tuition fees so they could cut the fees to attract more students
Absolutely. How the hell can it cost a University £9k a year to teach history to under graduates? It’s a disgraceful rip off.
If History can be thought at university for less then £9K a year, why doesn't one of the few privet univsatys open a cause for £8k and make a big profit?
Overall about 1/3 of the cost of teaching Undergraduates still comes form the taxpayer, this, about £5k per year per student on average is not evenly distributed, i.e. more to the STEM subjects that require laboratys and workshops not just lecture theatres and seminar rooms.
Maybe an instauration could run a history degree for less than £9k a year, in which case I would support it doing so. but unless we are going to embrace distance learning lectors on a video and so on, I don't think you will get it much lower. which is why I would support a bigger more to distance learning for degrees, expanding the open university for example.
Comments
Just as long as they were a Ukrainian Strictly winner rather than a HIGNY panellist.
I don't dislike foreigners at all. I've given great praise to many foreign nations, so do you think I love all them?
Or maybe being a sentient human being I'm capable of thinking complex thoughts about complex issues, something that you seem incapable of doing. Oh and this being a rather contrarian website we more often talk about those we disagree with (whether it be Boris, Corbyn, Trump, UVDL, Sinn Fein, the DUP or anyone else) than the plethora of foreign leaders that we like and agree with.
But there is a qualitative difference between extra-marital canoodling and the more rapey stuff that's being alleged now. The optimisitic take is that the horrible stuff has always happened and the difference is that it's now being called out for what it is. But I'm not yet convinced that it's OK to be optimistic.
What sort of criminal justice system is that?
Oh dear. But no name. Isn't that because MPs legislated to protect themselves? Or am I muddling?
"I'm capable of thinking complex thoughts about complex issues" 😂😂😂. Get over yourself man!
These people are so delusional that they think we care what they think. It’s bizarre.
That's a fair line up of suspicions there.
Though I can appreciate why someone as simple minded as yourself, who wants to boil every issue to black and white rather than shades of grey, might struggle with the concept.
For the avoidance of any doubt - do not post links to rumours about this story, only links from reputable news sources.
Indeed the MET have specifically said the will not name the accused
And naming on here is an utter no no under any circumstances
I don’t want for me or Mike to get sued…
I genuinely have no idea if the twitterers are right. I guess every non-accused Tory MP in their 50’s will want to make sure they turn up to PMQs tomorrow….
Due process is sacrosanct. Any of us could end up needing to rely on it
If it helps, I was down there in the darkness, with the black dog howling, during the worst of Covid - just like you. I split with my wife partly for Covid reasons (a painful split as we were still very close), then I had to face lockdown 3 - the winter one - all alone in a one bed flat in Camden when every single thing that usually keeps me sane - from friends to pubs to sun to restaurants to travel to art galleries and sex - was taken away from me. I felt actually suicidal a few times, and - weirder and somehow worse - later I behaved suicidally - eg driving at 140mph at noon for no reason
Crazy shit
I am very glad I did not do myself in. I am now in a much much happier place - I still have my mood swings but they are normal. I will always have them. What happened during Covid was an order of magnitude worse than the average bipolar blues
Anyway. Stick in there. And stay on PB. I found it an invaluable source of company at my loneliest moments….
However, I have to say I think this goes far wider than tuition fees. Caps for non-Russell group unis while allowing Russell Group to recruit far beyond their capacity and the shambolic rewriting of History A-level are all playing a part and are both incredibly damaging.
The whole government HE policy is almost as big a shambles as their secondary education policy, which is saying something.
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1526338897206079488?s=21&t=vIeuS5lk4cYvARgP8UkirQ
“Twitter does not believe in free speech.”
“We’re actually censoring the right and not the left.”
- Twitter employee to undercover #ProjectVeritas journalist
It's a total shambles. Like the energy price cap only on a larger scale and with probably more far reaching consequences.
Regardless of one's view on tuition fees, this has always been the case to a large extent. Some subjects cost one hell of a lot more to teach, and that's either covered by general taxation (which History students go on to pay as much as anyone) or loan repayments (which History students go on to pay, albeit binmen don't).
I don't see your route around that, other than to make Engineering courses more expensive to cut fees for Historians. And that seems brave, minister.
Something is dreadfully wrong in the culture at Westminster.
So you believe terrorism is valid to achieve your aims and people who don't resort to terrorism should be ignored.
The small flat, alone; where once youth and beauty shone, I get 100%
I'm something of a physical and mental wretch now. Disabled with horrors ravaging the insides. Has been quite the culture shock as i used to think myself indestructible, immortal, unstoppable.
But I'm not. I'm a young old man who plays chess and remembers when life was bar lights and pretty girls who now have fled further even than the time that separates us.
But I'm Woolie. And I always will be. I've been strangling black dogs since i was 10. Fuck em. I've seen enough to laugh at the pompous, the famous, the pretenders and the cruel. Just a lad from working class stock who got given a brain and a grin and has rinsed the shit out of both.
Lots of alpha or would-be alpha males hoping to use power to get sex. And of course, for balance, there are surely predatory women as well
I presume politics has always attracted this type (and no doubt many are perfectly nice and don’t cross any lines), the difference now is that they are in collision with a less “permissive” culture
BUT
This is one person talking, buy the context its a block talking to a girl in a bar or similar setting, he could well just be telling her whatever he thinks she what's to hear and/or impress her in order to impress her for, well, 'personal' reasons. it also is quite heavily edited, so maybe the if we had the whole video, it might be slightly more balanced.
Blackadder: Criminal record?
Baldrick: Absolutely not.
Blackadder: Oh come on Baldrick, you’re going to be an MP for God’s sake! I’ll just put fraud and sexual deviancy.
When I was a kid, I felt low - I guess we all do. "The world doesn't understand me" Adrian Mole-style pretentious crap. Having talked to people since, I realised that although I felt low, the black dog never stalked me. I've always been someone who is more 'up' than 'down'. Even when I got told I would never walk properly again, when I had a first operation only to find a friend had died - even through the bad times, it never stalked me.
But I have seen enough people 'down' to realise the black dog is real, and that I've been blooming lucky.
Oddly, I've never seen myself as indestructible, immortal or unstoppable. Quite the opposite. Yet depression has never really been a problem. Odd, really.
They flee from me that sometime did me seek
With naked foot, stalking in my chamber.
I have seen them gentle, tame, and meek,
That now are wild and do not remember
That sometime they put themself in danger
To take bread at my hand; and now they range,
Busily seeking with a continual change.
Thanked be fortune it hath been otherwise
Twenty times better; but once in special,
In thin array after a pleasant guise,
When her loose gown from her shoulders did fall,
And she me caught in her arms long and small;
Therewithall sweetly did me kiss
And softly said, “Dear heart, how like you this?”
It was no dream: I lay broad waking.
But all is turned thorough my gentleness
Into a strange fashion of forsaking;
And I have leave to go of her goodness,
And she also, to use newfangleness.
But since that I so kindly am served
I would fain know what she hath deserved.
nice one.
I have no problem in also recommending that Physics and Maths degrees should be free tuition!
Jenny kiss’d me when we met,
Jumping from the chair she sat in;
Time, you thief, who love to get
Sweets into your list, put that in!
Say I’m weary, say I’m sad,
Say that health and wealth have miss’d me,
Say I’m growing old, but add,
Jenny kiss’d me.
Or, on a wistful day, my favourite poem, The Lost Love by Wordsworth
She dwelt among the untrodden ways
Beside the springs of Dove;
A maid whom there were none to praise,
And very few to love.
A violet by a mossy stone
Half hidden from the eye!
—Fair as a star, when only one
Is shining in the sky.
She lived unknown, and few could know
When Lucy ceased to be;
But she is in her grave, and O!
The difference to me!
Or by closing the departments, as they cost too much to run.
I studied geological engineering at Queen Mary and Westfield (now just plain-old QM). Geo Eng is civil engineering plus geology - basically, the parts of civ eng that go on in the ground - foundations, tunnelling, etc. I did not finish my degree for personal reasons, so might be part of the problem, but QMW stopped civil engineering courses yonks ago.
You can apparently get "Environmental science with business management with a year abroad", or "Sustainable engineering with industrial experience", but civil engineering? The topic that literally builds the modern world? Nope.
Overall about 1/3 of the cost of teaching Undergraduates still comes form the taxpayer, this, about £5k per year per student on average is not evenly distributed, i.e. more to the STEM subjects that require laboratys and workshops not just lecture theatres and seminar rooms.
Maybe an instauration could run a history degree for less than £9k a year, in which case I would support it doing so. but unless we are going to embrace distance learning lectors on a video and so on, I don't think you will get it much lower. which is why I would support a bigger more to distance learning for degrees, expanding the open university for example.