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Some positive Survation Red Wall polling for LAB – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,417
edited May 2022 in General
imageSome positive Survation Red Wall polling for LAB – politicalbetting.com

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  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,243
    edited May 2022
    FPT:

    I'm going to ask a totally OT travel advice question because everyone would rather talk about coffee machines and a very personal argument I'm not really following or basically anything except Andy Burnham.

    I've got a week free in Europe in September, Berlin at one end and Amsterdam at the other and just need to hang out somewhere in between. I'll mostly be working instead of running around committing tourism but I want somewhere that's just an interesting place to be for a week or so, preferably a single flight up to 3/4 hours long from both Berlin and Amsterdam and a few hours travel max from the airport (train or rentacar or whatever). UK/France/Belgium/Holland/Germany are out because I've been to them too much before. Somewhere that's kind of a bargain because it's a little bit out-of-season is also good.

    Where to go?

    Bled (Slovenia) if you like chilling by a lake and/or a bit of walking - easy to get out of the main touristy bit, even on foot. Cheap transfer from Ljubljana.

    Aeolian islands, but likely too much faff to get to - don't know whether there are diect flights to Sicily, but you still have to cross Sicily and then get a boat.

    Edit: And second? Love and peaceful thoughts to all :kissing_heart:
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    Third like the Lib Dems?

    Happy birthday Mike OGH.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    Do we know how they are defining "Red Wall" here?
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,771
    Ah, the spring-freshness of a new thread!
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,641
    ❤️ to all participants 💙
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Applicant said:

    Do we know how they are defining "Red Wall" here?

    +1
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Those are only good figures if it's seats the Tories won in 2019 in the red wall. If it includes Jarrow etc its appalling
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    Sandpit said:

    Third like the Lib Dems?

    Happy birthday Mike OGH.

    Seconded, or perhaps rather eighthed.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,569
    Applicant said:

    Do we know how they are defining "Red Wall" here?

    Population sampled: All residents aged 18+ in Red Wall seats (seats in the North of England and Midlands which changed from Labour to Conservatives in the 2019 General Election).
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Sandpit said:

    Third like the Lib Dems?

    Not the Scottish ones.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Scottish_Parliament_election
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Selebian said:

    FPT:

    Bled (Slovenia) if you like chilling by a lake and/or a bit of walking - easy to get out of the main touristy bit, even on foot. Cheap transfer from Ljubljana.

    Aeolian islands, but likely too much faff to get to - don't know whether there are diect flights to Sicily, but you still have to cross Sicily and then get a boat.

    Edit: And second? Love and peaceful thoughts to all :kissing_heart:
    How recent is the Slovenia tip? Cos tourism there just exploded 2016-18

    Personally I am going riding in Sicily for a week in June and then want to spend a week there with a car. If I want to start in Syracuse and end up at Palermo do PBers recommend driving round the bottom, round the top or across the middle? bearing in mind I will have seen a bit of the interior (Madonie to Etna) from my horse.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Happy birthday Mike

    Rash to advertise your dob online, mind, we'll all be hacking your crypto wallet now.
  • Is there any comparable polling prior to the last election on the same question in the same seats?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,390

    Population sampled: All residents aged 18+ in Red Wall seats (seats in the North of England and Midlands which changed from Labour to Conservatives in the 2019 General Election).
    There's a bit more info here, too. https://www.ippr.org/news-and-media/press-releases/revealed-here-s-what-motivated-so-called-red-wall-voters-last-week
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,067
    After a “night drive” and bit of sleep I’m back in sunny Yorkshire. ☔️

    Didn’t I tell you all those stupid papers were lying about a heatwave coming!

    https://www.yr.no/nb/værvarsel/daglig-tabell/2-2633352/Storbritannia/England/York/York
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,480
    @Leon , what was the book ?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    IshmaelZ said:

    Happy birthday Mike

    Rash to advertise your dob online, mind, we'll all be hacking your crypto wallet now.

    Not as if he is a Rangers supporter, mind.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,569

    There's a bit more info here, too. https://www.ippr.org/news-and-media/press-releases/revealed-here-s-what-motivated-so-called-red-wall-voters-last-week
    Here’s Survation’s notes.

    https://www.survation.com/labour-has-best-understanding-of-our-local-area-in-poll-of-red-wall-seats/
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,480
    Interesting account of J D Vance.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/05/jd-vance-trump-republican-frumforum/629814/
    The J. D. Vance I Knew

    Worth keeping an eye on for the 2028 presidential race.
  • In what ways are planning rules any more anti-libertarian than the rules you have just suggested? Keep the planning laws, by all means reform, but no planning is about as silly as removing the restrictions you just mentioned. Good attempt though "Bart", but nil points for debate!
    Because rules on pollution are about protecting others from the harm of pollution and setting standards that anyone can operate by, so long as they don't pollute.

    Restrictions in order to inflate certain people's assets and take away the rights of others to act, even if they're not harming others, is not the same thing.

    As you've said, you don't want housing assets to fall in value. That's just protectionism and market rigging - let the free market determine the fair free value of housing, the state shouldn't be involved in price gouging.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    edited May 2022
    .

    Population sampled: All residents aged 18+ in Red Wall seats (seats in the North of England and Midlands which changed from Labour to Conservatives in the 2019 General Election).
    OK, so they've missed a fair few. I'd have preferred including any Labour held seats that the Tories missed by less than, say, 10% too because of the BXP factor - eg they wouldn't have included Hartlepool.

    They've also included some that I'm not sure should count as Red Wall - scanning the list, there are plenty of traditional marginals that don't (or shouldn't) count as Red Wall.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Population sampled: All residents aged 18+ in Red Wall seats (seats in the North of England and Midlands which changed from Labour to Conservatives in the 2019 General Election).
    Then it is pretty good polling for Labour. Doesn't suggest they win everything back though
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,585
    Nigelb said:

    @Leon , what was the book ?

    Armenian Golgotha, by Grigoris Balakian

    Slightly slow start, but when he gets to the eye witness account of the genocide, my God

    It’s right up there with the famous memoirs about Auschwitz. Perhaps more impactful because so much of it is unknown - and I consider myself quite well read, historically

    eg I had no idea so much of the genocide happened in northern Syria. I never knew that Armenians lived there in large numbers. Perhaps I didn’t know because the Turks killed them all, so there’s none left
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,585
    edited May 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    How recent is the Slovenia tip? Cos tourism there just exploded 2016-18

    Personally I am going riding in Sicily for a week in June and then want to spend a week there with a car. If I want to start in Syracuse and end up at Palermo do PBers recommend driving round the bottom, round the top or across the middle? bearing in mind I will have seen a bit of the interior (Madonie to Etna) from my horse.
    Round the top, go north then east to Palermo

    The interior can be a bit boring and bleak. Especially in summer when the heat drives everyone indoors all day
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    edited May 2022

    Ah, should have said, I've been to the baltic countries and I don't want to be running around multiple places, I just want to settle into a hotel somewhere with my laptop and occasionally go out and eat and potter around [place with an interesting vibe].
    You can fly to the new Scandinavian Mountains Airport, up in the high hills, right on the Swedish/Norwegian border. Flights from London, Groningen and Luxembourg, but not Berlin or Amsterdam. Hire a “stuga” and enjoy the wildlife and natural beauty. A paradise for cyclists, fishing and hiking in the summer. Five or six big ski resorts in the winter. The Berlin flight can be dealt with by a short trip down to Oslo.

    If you want “vibe” fly to Gothenburg and spend the week on the Bohuslän coast. Absolutely bonkers. Stunningly beautiful, swimming, kayaking, nightlife, just chilling out. Laptop to your heart’s content under a parasol.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,280
    Nigelb said:

    Interesting account of J D Vance.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/05/jd-vance-trump-republican-frumforum/629814/
    The J. D. Vance I Knew

    Worth keeping an eye on for the 2028 presidential race.

    Whatever loony Christian QAnon adjacent twat Trump selects as his VP must be the favourite for 2028 unless the economy is fucked beyond recognition in that case the favourite must be Dem (AOC, Ossoff?).
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,067
    Applicant said:

    Do we know how they are defining "Red Wall" here?

    We suspect how historians will define it, as their students write dissatations about it - that place where life long Labour voted Tory once …before going back to being life long Labour 🤭

    I’ll keep saying it because I am 100% right - the problem for the Tory’s is Brexit is not done*

    *in its impact on how people vote going forward it’s not.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,533
    IshmaelZ said:

    How recent is the Slovenia tip? Cos tourism there just exploded 2016-18

    Personally I am going riding in Sicily for a week in June and then want to spend a week there with a car. If I want to start in Syracuse and end up at Palermo do PBers recommend driving round the bottom, round the top or across the middle? bearing in mind I will have seen a bit of the interior (Madonie to Etna) from my horse.
    Went to Bled a few years ago and thoroughly enjoyed ourselves until Mrs C sprained her ankle. Slovenian medical services were excellent, though; seen pretty well immediately everywhere we had to go. Only problem was that 'as we wouldn't be able to return them' we had to buy her crutches.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,243
    IshmaelZ said:

    How recent is the Slovenia tip? Cos tourism there just exploded 2016-18

    Personally I am going riding in Sicily for a week in June and then want to spend a week there with a car. If I want to start in Syracuse and end up at Palermo do PBers recommend driving round the bottom, round the top or across the middle? bearing in mind I will have seen a bit of the interior (Madonie to Etna) from my horse.
    Hmmm, work trip, must have been no later than 2014. Crikey, much longer ago than I thought... Perhaps I should not return, in case my memories are ruined!
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,780
    IshmaelZ said:

    How recent is the Slovenia tip? Cos tourism there just exploded 2016-18

    Personally I am going riding in Sicily for a week in June and then want to spend a week there with a car. If I want to start in Syracuse and end up at Palermo do PBers recommend driving round the bottom, round the top or across the middle? bearing in mind I will have seen a bit of the interior (Madonie to Etna) from my horse.
    On a similar question, by youngest daughter has recently got a real bee in her bonnet about going to Scotland. She wants to see a mountain and a castle and a Highland Cow. Which is all very nice, but she is only seven and too small for munro bagging or too much history all in one go. Still, I'd like to take her (and her sisters, 10 and 12, and my wife) to Scotland in October. Somewhere with things to do for moderately active pre-teen girls, and somewhere where they can take in the scale of the place and be suitably awestruck. Any thoughts?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,417
    Nigelb said:

    Interesting account of J D Vance.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/05/jd-vance-trump-republican-frumforum/629814/
    The J. D. Vance I Knew

    Worth keeping an eye on for the 2028 presidential race.

    Definitely one to keep an eye on for future POTUS run.

  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Looks like the royals are showing a renewed interest in their Scottish titles: Rothesay, Strathearn etc. Might mean something. Might not.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/1608576/prince-william-kate-middleton-title-change-scotland-evg
  • Cookie said:

    On a similar question, by youngest daughter has recently got a real bee in her bonnet about going to Scotland. She wants to see a mountain and a castle and a Highland Cow. Which is all very nice, but she is only seven and too small for munro bagging or too much history all in one go. Still, I'd like to take her (and her sisters, 10 and 12, and my wife) to Scotland in October. Somewhere with things to do for moderately active pre-teen girls, and somewhere where they can take in the scale of the place and be suitably awestruck. Any thoughts?
    May seem obvious but Edinburgh is a lovely city to visit. Got the zoo, the Royal Mile, the castle, parks, lots of sites and plenty of hills for active walking but nothings too far if you need to carry her on your shoulders if she gets tired.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,585
    edited May 2022
    Cookie said:

    On a similar question, by youngest daughter has recently got a real bee in her bonnet about going to Scotland. She wants to see a mountain and a castle and a Highland Cow. Which is all very nice, but she is only seven and too small for munro bagging or too much history all in one go. Still, I'd like to take her (and her sisters, 10 and 12, and my wife) to Scotland in October. Somewhere with things to do for moderately active pre-teen girls, and somewhere where they can take in the scale of the place and be suitably awestruck. Any thoughts?
    The obvious place is Skye, but then everyone else thinks the same (as we have discussed on here). Busy in summer. The Sleat peninsula is quieter and rather lovely

    Harris is really beautiful but harder to get to, less to do and see

    Eveywhere will have midges

    EDIT: I see you’re going in October. Don’t worry about midges. Worry about the weather

  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,765
    I thought I'd escape the hilarious acrimony of the last thread by switching on PMQs for some sweetness and light.
    But there's no PMQs. Why's that?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,480
    Dura_Ace said:

    Whatever loony Christian QAnon adjacent twat Trump selects as his VP must be the favourite for 2028 unless the economy is fucked beyond recognition in that case the favourite must be Dem (AOC, Ossoff?).
    Didn't work for Pence.

    Vance looks to be an operator of sufficient combined ability and cynicism to have a shot.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,905
    edited May 2022
    As noted above. These seats are very heterogeneous. There are a fair few which would be expected to be won by either Party with an 80 seat majority (marginals basically).
    There are also ones where the demographic drift has been to the Tories for a fair while.
    Labour did pretty well in some. Cumberland and West Yorkshire for example. OK in others. Poorly in yet more.
    It's almost as if it isn't one place.
    Generalisations about the Red Wall are usually just that.
    And that, too is a generalisation.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,771
    Cookie said:

    On a similar question, by youngest daughter has recently got a real bee in her bonnet about going to Scotland. She wants to see a mountain and a castle and a Highland Cow. Which is all very nice, but she is only seven and too small for munro bagging or too much history all in one go. Still, I'd like to take her (and her sisters, 10 and 12, and my wife) to Scotland in October. Somewhere with things to do for moderately active pre-teen girls, and somewhere where they can take in the scale of the place and be suitably awestruck. Any thoughts?
    The difficulty is the balance between things to do, and "things to do". If "moderately active" and great scenery is the goal, can I recommend a trip up to the Black Isle - loads of great walks but not mountains. And you can have a stop-off in e.g. Edinburgh on the way up and back, and do "City things" (museums, galleries, etc.) for a change in pace.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,452

    Then it is pretty good polling for Labour. Doesn't suggest they win everything back though
    Plus - mid-term polling....
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    I thought I'd escape the hilarious acrimony of the last thread by switching on PMQs for some sweetness and light.
    But there's no PMQs. Why's that?

    There's never PMQs until the Queen's Speech debate is finished, IIRC.

    I guess because technically there's a chance it could be defeated, in which case there would be a new PM to face the Qs. Or an election.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,336

    I thought I'd escape the hilarious acrimony of the last thread by switching on PMQs for some sweetness and light.
    But there's no PMQs. Why's that?

    Queen's speech debate?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    Cookie said:

    On a similar question, by youngest daughter has recently got a real bee in her bonnet about going to Scotland. She wants to see a mountain and a castle and a Highland Cow. Which is all very nice, but she is only seven and too small for munro bagging or too much history all in one go. Still, I'd like to take her (and her sisters, 10 and 12, and my wife) to Scotland in October. Somewhere with things to do for moderately active pre-teen girls, and somewhere where they can take in the scale of the place and be suitably awestruck. Any thoughts?
    Skye is pretty impressive, or take them monster-hunting to Loch Ness.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,850
    Cookie said:

    On a similar question, by youngest daughter has recently got a real bee in her bonnet about going to Scotland. She wants to see a mountain and a castle and a Highland Cow. Which is all very nice, but she is only seven and too small for munro bagging or too much history all in one go. Still, I'd like to take her (and her sisters, 10 and 12, and my wife) to Scotland in October. Somewhere with things to do for moderately active pre-teen girls, and somewhere where they can take in the scale of the place and be suitably awestruck. Any thoughts?
    A seven year old she will have heard the story of the Loch Ness monster so I would go Nessie spotting.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Edinburgh appears to be edging towards a minority SNP-Green coalition running the city after Scottish Labour bosses made clear they would block a continuation of the SNP-Labour partnership which has been in power for the past five years.

    Sources said the Capital's Labour group leader Cammy Day had been in talks with Scottish party headquarters about the possibility of renewing the SNP-Labour coalition, but it was made clear such a move would be vetoed.

    Scottish Labour leader Anas Sarwar said ahead of last week's elections he did not want formal council coalitions between Labour and other parties, especially the Tories or SNP. But it is understood Councillor Day was keen to see if there could be some flexibility. However, a source said: “The message he got back was No.”

    The SNP won 19 seats at the election, Labour 13, the Lib Dems 12, Greens 10 and Tories nine.

    Other potential combinations which have been floated include a Labour, Lib Dem, Green coalition, which would add up to a majority or a Labour-Lib Dem minority coalition, but it has not been clear whether such arrangements would also fall foul of Labour’s coalition ban.

    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/politics/council/edinburgh-council-coalition-talks-snp-green-coalition-appears-to-be-moving-closer-3688670
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,585
    mwadams said:

    The difficulty is the balance between things to do, and "things to do". If "moderately active" and great scenery is the goal, can I recommend a trip up to the Black Isle - loads of great walks but not mountains. And you can have a stop-off in e.g. Edinburgh on the way up and back, and do "City things" (museums, galleries, etc.) for a change in pace.
    It surely has to be Skye

    Mountains: the Cuillins, some of the most impressive in Europe, despite their small size

    Highland cattle: everywhere

    Awesomeness: lochs and forests and sea and the old man of Storr

    Castles: Dunvegan! (And others)

    I took my older daughter there when she was about 8 and she adored it

    We had good weather tho…

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,480
    Putting pressure on Durham police is of course, quite wrong...

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1524138989539704832
    Priti Patel is seen congratulating Tory MP Richard Holden, seemingly in reference to his calls for police to reinvestigate the "beergate" controversy involving Sir Keir Starmer, who denies any wrongdoing.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,585
    Dura_Ace said:

    A creature of habit.


    Lol

    Your photoshopping skills are impressive
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,214
    Farooq said:

    Michael Gove appears on TV and suddenly "Drugs" is trending on Twitter.
    Looking at the video... sheesh.

    Perhaps he is a deep undercover DEA agent working to infiltrate a global drugs empire?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    edited May 2022
    Cookie said:

    On a similar question, by youngest daughter has recently got a real bee in her bonnet about going to Scotland. She wants to see a mountain and a castle and a Highland Cow. Which is all very nice, but she is only seven and too small for munro bagging or too much history all in one go. Still, I'd like to take her (and her sisters, 10 and 12, and my wife) to Scotland in October. Somewhere with things to do for moderately active pre-teen girls, and somewhere where they can take in the scale of the place and be suitably awestruck. Any thoughts?
    Not an expert on preteens of any gender, but ...

    Thinjk about taking in Stirling for a couple of days at least - great castle, real scenery, nice town, cattle too in field or in nearby attractions. Wallace Monument, of course, and near the Trossachs for some Highland scenery. Access by train easy if that helps. That would tick the daughterly boxes pdq.

    https://www.visitscotland.com/blog/holiday-ideas/great-places-to-see-highland-cows-in-scotland/

    Maybe look at Oban for a cruise around Mull, if available?

    The Highlands can be quite a big place in terms of driving but the Trossachs should give some heather and bumps. Train/A9 to Aviemore if you want more?

    I'm tempted to say forget Ben Nevis/Fort William - not my fave area. BN is far too high/lethal for many.

    Lothians and east Borders do have plenty of castles and walks and beaches and things to do. And Edinburgh as well.

    Look at Historic Scotland and National Trust for Scotland websites.

    Possibly also National Museum of Rural Life or whatever it is called at East Kilbride - more over to the Glasgow side but still accessible enough.

    But avoid midge season in Highlands!





  • eekeek Posts: 29,690
    Regarding Q1 - it's looking like it's too late to try and get Levelling Up going before the next election.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,336

    Edinburgh appears to be edging towards a minority SNP-Green coalition running the city after Scottish Labour bosses made clear they would block a continuation of the SNP-Labour partnership which has been in power for the past five years.

    Sources said the Capital's Labour group leader Cammy Day had been in talks with Scottish party headquarters about the possibility of renewing the SNP-Labour coalition, but it was made clear such a move would be vetoed.

    Scottish Labour leader Anas Sarwar said ahead of last week's elections he did not want formal council coalitions between Labour and other parties, especially the Tories or SNP. But it is understood Councillor Day was keen to see if there could be some flexibility. However, a source said: “The message he got back was No.”

    The SNP won 19 seats at the election, Labour 13, the Lib Dems 12, Greens 10 and Tories nine.

    Other potential combinations which have been floated include a Labour, Lib Dem, Green coalition, which would add up to a majority or a Labour-Lib Dem minority coalition, but it has not been clear whether such arrangements would also fall foul of Labour’s coalition ban.

    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/politics/council/edinburgh-council-coalition-talks-snp-green-coalition-appears-to-be-moving-closer-3688670

    Refusing to work with opposition parties at the local level is dumb, especially in Scotland where a large proportion of councils are NOC.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited May 2022
    Leon said:

    It surely has to be Skye

    Mountains: the Cuillins, some of the most impressive in Europe, despite their small size

    Highland cattle: everywhere

    Awesomeness: lochs and forests and sea and the old man of Storr

    Castles: Dunvegan! (And others)

    I took my older daughter there when she was about 8 and she adored it

    We had good weather tho…

    I'd add the drive across on the A87 through the five sisters is up there with glencoe as a stunning scenery drive
    And Eilean Donan on the road is a good castle for a visit
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,577
    IshmaelZ said:

    How recent is the Slovenia tip? Cos tourism there just exploded 2016-18

    Personally I am going riding in Sicily for a week in June and then want to spend a week there with a car. If I want to start in Syracuse and end up at Palermo do PBers recommend driving round the bottom, round the top or across the middle? bearing in mind I will have seen a bit of the interior (Madonie to Etna) from my horse.
    This place is worth a look:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scopello,_Trapani

    A post-industrial tuna factory, re-purposed as a small-scale resort.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    Applicant said:

    There's never PMQs until the Queen's Speech debate is finished, IIRC.

    I guess because technically there's a chance it could be defeated, in which case there would be a new PM to face the Qs. Or an election.
    Another thought: all questions fall at prorogation and can't be tabled again until Queen's Speech day, so presumably there's not time to arrange them for the first week
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617

    A seven year old she will have heard the story of the Loch Ness monster so I would go Nessie spotting.
    Maybe a cruise from Inverness, if going that way, visiting Urquhart castgle for a break ashore.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,780
    Farooq said:

    A small herd of Highland coos are to be seen roaming around the north Pentlands, accessible from Swanston. You can sometimes get quite close to them, unfenced, which is a thrill.
    There's also a dry ski slope very close to that but I don't know the details for getting on the slope. It looks kid friendly, though, judging by the young families I've seen there. You can get up the northern peaks of the Pentlands quite easily but they aren't proper mountains.

    Munro bagging is possible even with small legs. The ski centre at the Spittal of Glenshee has several very accessible Munros, and even a 7-year old will make it to the top of Carn Aosda or Cairnwell. It's about 300m climb from the car park, and it's proper mountains up there.
    Brilliant - I've just looked up those munros, and they would be perfect - I had no idea there were munros so accessible to children! She would love that. I might even get my wife up it.
    BT's suggestion of Edinburgh is also noted - maybe a two centre trip: the Cairngorms and Edinburgh - and perhaps leave Leon's suggestion of Skye and/or the Hebrides for a separate trip.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,771
    edited May 2022
    Leon said:

    It surely has to be Skye

    Mountains: the Cuillins, some of the most impressive in Europe, despite their small size

    Highland cattle: everywhere

    Awesomeness: lochs and forests and sea and the old man of Storr

    Castles: Dunvegan! (And others)

    I took my older daughter there when she was about 8 and she adored it

    We had good weather tho…

    That is a very good call.

    That said, next on my list is to take the 8yo to Orkney as soon as I can find some time. (On which neolithic note, I'm just about to have another quick potter round the BM Stonehenge exhibition.)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    Farooq said:

    EDIT: the Swanston coos roam a large area, so it's not guaranteed
    Arthuir's Seat a definite if in Edinburgh.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,785

    Because rules on pollution are about protecting others from the harm of pollution and setting standards that anyone can operate by, so long as they don't pollute.

    Restrictions in order to inflate certain people's assets and take away the rights of others to act, even if they're not harming others, is not the same thing.

    As you've said, you don't want housing assets to fall in value. That's just protectionism and market rigging - let the free market determine the fair free value of housing, the state shouldn't be involved in price gouging.
    There are potential benefits of house prices falling. From a selfish point of view, that could be good for me, I could buy more property, but I wouldn't wish for it. It would be a disaster for many families that might find themselves in negative equity, and maybe be victims of repossession. But you wouldn't care about them. For people like you they are just a statistic as long as you are not one of the stats yourself. Having seen it happen to people in the 80s and 90s, I wouldn't wish it on anyone, even on an opinionated selfish oaf like yourself.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,533

    Edinburgh appears to be edging towards a minority SNP-Green coalition running the city after Scottish Labour bosses made clear they would block a continuation of the SNP-Labour partnership which has been in power for the past five years.

    Sources said the Capital's Labour group leader Cammy Day had been in talks with Scottish party headquarters about the possibility of renewing the SNP-Labour coalition, but it was made clear such a move would be vetoed.

    Scottish Labour leader Anas Sarwar said ahead of last week's elections he did not want formal council coalitions between Labour and other parties, especially the Tories or SNP. But it is understood Councillor Day was keen to see if there could be some flexibility. However, a source said: “The message he got back was No.”

    The SNP won 19 seats at the election, Labour 13, the Lib Dems 12, Greens 10 and Tories nine.

    Other potential combinations which have been floated include a Labour, Lib Dem, Green coalition, which would add up to a majority or a Labour-Lib Dem minority coalition, but it has not been clear whether such arrangements would also fall foul of Labour’s coalition ban.

    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/politics/council/edinburgh-council-coalition-talks-snp-green-coalition-appears-to-be-moving-closer-3688670

    If there's no chance of a Lab/LD coalition that doesn't bode well for Starmer as PM 2024. (Or, more likely, early 2025.)
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,214
    Nigelb said:

    Putting pressure on Durham police is of course, quite wrong...

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1524138989539704832
    Priti Patel is seen congratulating Tory MP Richard Holden, seemingly in reference to his calls for police to reinvestigate the "beergate" controversy involving Sir Keir Starmer, who denies any wrongdoing.

    I am old enough to remember when it was still quite wrong to comment ahead of Sue Gray.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    This place is worth a look:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scopello,_Trapani

    A post-industrial tuna factory, re-purposed as a small-scale resort.
    thank you that does look good
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    RobD said:

    Refusing to work with opposition parties at the local level is dumb, especially in Scotland where a large proportion of councils are NOC.
    I can understand the non-Tory parties vetoing any coalitions with the Tories: it is after all the national Zeitgeist. But the 4 main centre-left parties are just being childish if they refuse to work together at local level. Predictably, Labour are being the most childish. It’ll seriously piss off their grassroots activists, locking them out of power in most areas.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,533
    edited May 2022

    I am old enough to remember when it was still quite wrong to comment ahead of Sue Gray.
    The even outside possibility of Priti being PM fills me with dread.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    Cookie said:

    Brilliant - I've just looked up those munros, and they would be perfect - I had no idea there were munros so accessible to children! She would love that. I might even get my wife up it.
    BT's suggestion of Edinburgh is also noted - maybe a two centre trip: the Cairngorms and Edinburgh - and perhaps leave Leon's suggestion of Skye and/or the Hebrides for a separate trip.
    October timing is a worry, in terms of what might have shut down for the winter. Have a look at the Scottish Tourist Board website though they do market autumn holidays.
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005

    A seven year old she will have heard the story of the Loch Ness monster so I would go Nessie spotting.
    I thought it was going to be awful but the Loch Ness visitor centre is very good. It tells a story of Nessie and lets everyone make up their own minds.

    https://www.lochness.com/

    My 12yo, 8yo and 4yo (at the time) all very much enjoyed it. Beware of the almost never-ending gift shop at the end!

    Also nearby Urquhart Castle is very much worth a visit with a stunning location right on Loch Ness.
  • .

    There are potential benefits of house prices falling. From a selfish point of view, that could be good for me, I could buy more property, but I wouldn't wish for it. It would be a disaster for many families that might find themselves in negative equity, and maybe be victims of repossession. But you wouldn't care about them. For people like you they are just a statistic as long as you are not one of the stats yourself. Having seen it happen to people in the 80s and 90s, I wouldn't wish it on anyone, even on an opinionated selfish oaf like yourself.
    Caveat emptor.

    Whatever happened to the warning "all investments can go down in value as well as up?" Pretty sure that warning was in very big print when we got our mortgage.

    A one-way ratchet on prices escalating ever further out of the reach of the working young is not healthy either. Even if opinionated selfish oafs like yourself want to protect the value of your "investments".
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Carnyx said:

    Maybe a cruise from Inverness, if going that way, visiting Urquhart castgle for a break ashore.
    The cruises from Fort Augustus are quite good fun on a nice day, and it's a pleasant little village. I used to spend a day doing the circuit - inverness to Drumnadrochit and Urquhart, then on to Fort Augustus and back round to Inverness via Foyers and the falls there. Always a fun day.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,789
    For all of the "Labour did badly" spin it was clear they had made good progress in chunks of the wall.

    Their problem - like the Tories - is that you can't win voters in the red wall and outside the red wall who want different things and think differently.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617

    I can understand the non-Tory parties vetoing any coalitions with the Tories: it is after all the national Zeitgeist. But the 4 main centre-left parties are just being childish if they refuse to work together at local level. Predictably, Labour are being the most childish. It’ll seriously piss off their grassroots activists, locking them out of power in most areas.
    Remember when Slab would veto their own proposals at Holyrood and collapse the budget just because the SNP administration had put them in the budget at their request?
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,751

    I can understand the non-Tory parties vetoing any coalitions with the Tories: it is after all the national Zeitgeist. But the 4 main centre-left parties are just being childish if they refuse to work together at local level. Predictably, Labour are being the most childish. It’ll seriously piss off their grassroots activists, locking them out of power in most areas.
    It’s a nonsense isn’t it? Whether you believe in independence or not is irrelevant to running a council well. Should be more than possible to work together locally and leave that argument for the national level.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,673
    Getting better at Wordle...

    Wordle 326 3/6

    🟨⬜⬜🟨⬜
    🟩🟨🟨🟨⬜
    🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,585
    mwadams said:

    That is a very good call.

    That said, next on my list is to take the 8yo to Orkney as soon as I can find some time. (On which neolithic note, I'm just about to have another quick potter round the BM Stonehenge exhibition.)
    I did the Orkneys with my same older daughter (now 15) last summer. It was fab. But we stayed in john o groats so we could also tour the mainland

    It’s a cliche but that drive around the top of Scotland is truly amazing (again we got lucky with the weather)

    John o groats itself is so hideous it’s funny. Likewise Wick and the flow country. But that makes it quite a cheap place to stay….
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,785
    Dura_Ace said:

    A creature of habit.


    Can you photoshop a copy of "Gay Times" or "Attitude" in there especially for our resident homophobe?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,765
    Applicant said:

    There's never PMQs until the Queen's Speech debate is finished, IIRC.

    I guess because technically there's a chance it could be defeated, in which case there would be a new PM to face the Qs. Or an election.
    Thanks.

    The Queen's Speech really was a damp squib, wasn't it? Nothing new. No coherent vision of the future. I've never known a QS attract so little attention on here or elsewhere.

    People often, justifiably, comment on Labour's apparent policy void ( a windfall tax - is that it?). But I'm beginning to think Labour may well present a more coherent narrative for government than the Tories in time for the next GE. They're certainly working on it behind the scenes, though keeping it under wraps for now (they know the Tories will nick the tasty bits).
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,585
    edited May 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    thank you that does look good
    Don’t miss Trapani itself. A gem of a city. Soaked in mafia myth (and reality). But quite safe for tourists. Properly Authentic
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Getting better at Wordle...

    Wordle 326 3/6

    🟨⬜⬜🟨⬜
    🟩🟨🟨🟨⬜
    🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

    Counting to 5 and knowing words in your own language are impressive skills certainly
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,067
    Polling either side of last weeks votes and last weeks votes themselves speak as one - Red Wall looking shaky, blue wall pile of rubble, the Tories have lost a blue wall and not gained a red wall. “THIS” is the emerging electoral reality for the Conservative vote in new Brexit Britain.

    In politics You don’t make changes as “courageous” as Brexit unless it’s for the better. You don’t boast “GOT BREXIT DONE” unless you are delivering better to peoples lives now.

    Partygate? Nah. What I said in paragraphs above is reason for what happens in coming elections.

    2019? Hollowed out Corbyn factor, as Mike Smithson often tells an unlistening PB.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,785

    .

    Caveat emptor.

    Whatever happened to the warning "all investments can go down in value as well as up?" Pretty sure that warning was in very big print when we got our mortgage.

    A one-way ratchet on prices escalating ever further out of the reach of the working young is not healthy either. Even if opinionated selfish oafs like yourself want to protect the value of your "investments".
    I hope it doesn't happen to you. You really do get extreme right wingers a bad name. Oh, hang on...
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,214

    There are potential benefits of house prices falling. From a selfish point of view, that could be good for me, I could buy more property, but I wouldn't wish for it. It would be a disaster for many families that might find themselves in negative equity, and maybe be victims of repossession. But you wouldn't care about them. For people like you they are just a statistic as long as you are not one of the stats yourself. Having seen it happen to people in the 80s and 90s, I wouldn't wish it on anyone, even on an opinionated selfish oaf like yourself.
    65% of households are homeowners. Another 20% want to be.

    1. For those who aren't planning to move and have paid off their mortgage it makes little difference.
    2. Those with a manageable mortgage and looking to upsize benefit from lower prices.
    3. Potential first time buyers gain from lower prices.
    4. Those who have a maxed out mortgage lose out from lower prices.
    5. Those with multiple properties lose out.

    Group 1 is quite large. It would be surprising if groups 2 and 3 are not bigger than group 4. Group 5 deserve no sympathy if prices fall.
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005
    Seen this article on the BBC about how Russia has so far managed to soften the impact of sanctions: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61381241

    One of the things I have noticed is that Russian airlines are still flying around in their Boeings and Airbuses. I thought that they were not going to be able to repair them due to lack of spare parts? Or are they just running through what they have left and slowly they will have to be taken out of service? Interested if anyone has any ideas on this.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,280
    Leon said:

    Lol

    Your photoshopping skills are impressive
    Comes from doctoring V5Cs and MOT certificates.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,279
    Carnyx said:

    Arthuir's Seat a definite if in Edinburgh.
    I was startled to find out the other day that Radical Road is closed. The best way to climb Arthur's Seat IMO. The news actually upset me, and I haven't been to Edinburgh for years.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,585

    Can you photoshop a copy of "Gay Times" or "Attitude" in there especially for our resident homophobe?
    Are you for some obscure reason accusing me of “homophobia”?!

    I will admit to many vices - nearly all of them - but that isn’t one. I actually tried being gay once. Didn’t like it, not for me, but I certainly don’t go around “hating” people that do like it

    It’s like hating someone for having red hair or being tall. Ridiculous
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,361
    AlistairM said:

    Seen this article on the BBC about how Russia has so far managed to soften the impact of sanctions: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61381241

    One of the things I have noticed is that Russian airlines are still flying around in their Boeings and Airbuses. I thought that they were not going to be able to repair them due to lack of spare parts? Or are they just running through what they have left and slowly they will have to be taken out of service? Interested if anyone has any ideas on this.

    They seized all the leased international aircraft that were stranded in Russia, so they can steal the parts off them.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,067
    I do have one confession to make, now back in Gods Own Country accosted by my brother “fools who vote Libdem let labour make inroads is the fact of a wasted Libdem vote”

    I stayed awake 40 hours studying every minutiae of last weeks elections, yet somehow completely missed what was happening in North Yorkshire! 🤦‍♀️

    Have I slept through acrimony on the last thread? Oh goody I can now go and read it 😆
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,765
    Dura_Ace said:

    Comes from doctoring V5Cs and MOT certificates.
    You really are a very naughty boy, aren't you?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    Farooq said:

    BN in good weather is fine but the bit you have to watch out for is the Red Burn crossing. If that's frozen over it's really quite dangerous. If you're up the mountain in summer season on a weekend, even when the clouds come in there are so many people up there it's possible to navigate just by sheer numbers of people. The same does not apply during quieter times and getting lost up there is remarkably easy.
    It's a gruelling climb and for the safest experience go there late in the summer when you're less likely to have much snow up top. I've seen very young children with no experience manage the whole climb, but 7 really on the young side of it.
    I'd feel safer to suggest a smaller climb somewhere fun and easier to get to - your suggestion of the Pentlands was an excellent one - the views of the Forth from the bridges to the open sea are great for a bairn. But even North Berwick Law or the coast walks would do well.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited May 2022
    AlistairM said:

    I thought it was going to be awful but the Loch Ness visitor centre is very good. It tells a story of Nessie and lets everyone make up their own minds.

    https://www.lochness.com/

    My 12yo, 8yo and 4yo (at the time) all very much enjoyed it. Beware of the almost never-ending gift shop at the end!

    Also nearby Urquhart Castle is very much worth a visit with a stunning location right on Loch Ness.
    I was in Drumnadrochit in late March. It's not come out of the pandemic too well, the lovely lodge hotel was shut as was nessieland next door but the other exhibition was open, it's a bit irritating though as Adrian Shine and co try to make it way too scientific and take the romance out of it.
    Now I'm not allowed to drive I had to get the bus there and back from Inverness which is sub optimal
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,801
    AlistairM said:

    Seen this article on the BBC about how Russia has so far managed to soften the impact of sanctions: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61381241

    One of the things I have noticed is that Russian airlines are still flying around in their Boeings and Airbuses. I thought that they were not going to be able to repair them due to lack of spare parts? Or are they just running through what they have left and slowly they will have to be taken out of service? Interested if anyone has any ideas on this.

    Cannibalising parts.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,785

    65% of households are homeowners. Another 20% want to be.

    1. For those who aren't planning to move and have paid off their mortgage it makes little difference.
    2. Those with a manageable mortgage and looking to upsize benefit from lower prices.
    3. Potential first time buyers gain from lower prices.
    4. Those who have a maxed out mortgage lose out from lower prices.
    5. Those with multiple properties lose out.

    Group 1 is quite large. It would be surprising if groups 2 and 3 are not bigger than group 4. Group 5 deserve no sympathy if prices fall.
    You might want to sell the benefits to those that were repossessed back in the day when it happened before.

    A large part of Group 5 does not lose, because they are often in group 1. They may use the situation to buy more property.

    The ideal situation would be house price stagnation, allowing salaries to catch up. House price collapse causes major disruption and stimulates recession. It is why successive governments desperately try to avoid it.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,361
    edited May 2022
    MaxPB said:

    Cannibalising parts.
    Can the Chinese make knock-off parts for Airbus and Boeing? Seems like a good business opportunity for them as Russia start to run through all the parts of the stolen planes.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,008
    Carnyx said:

    Arthuir's Seat a definite if in Edinburgh.
    Happy memories for my wife and my romance in the early 1960's
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617

    I was startled to find out the other day that Radical Road is closed. The best way to climb Arthur's Seat IMO. The news actually upset me, and I haven't been to Edinburgh for years.
    There's a bit of grief amongst the geological community becauyse the closure includes Hutton's Section - or did: I haven't checked the current situation, admittedly.

    https://www.historicenvironment.scot/about-us/news/new-digital-models-of-salisbury-crags-hutton-section-and-hutton-s-rock/
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,067
    Farooq said:

    We agree
    🤣🤣
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,280
    AlistairM said:

    Seen this article on the BBC about how Russia has so far managed to soften the impact of sanctions: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61381241

    One of the things I have noticed is that Russian airlines are still flying around in their Boeings and Airbuses. I thought that they were not going to be able to repair them due to lack of spare parts? Or are they just running through what they have left and slowly they will have to be taken out of service? Interested if anyone has any ideas on this.

    The same way Iran did and does. There is a whole sanctions busting aircraft parts industry routed through China, Indonesia and Thailand. All supplied from the aircraft components souqs that are run out of South Florida.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,801

    Can the Chinese make knock-off parts for Airbus and Boeing? Seems like a good business opportunity for them as Russia start to run through all the parts of the stolen planes.
    Very unreliable in planes, turns them into ticking time bombs and when the first one falls out of the sky from earlier than expected part failure everyone stops flying.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,022
    Surely the logic of Burnham is if Labour loses the next election many of the current leadership team will be party to it. Burnham returning as an MP can say he was no part of it.
This discussion has been closed.