Odds of 2/1 on a Johnson 2022 exit look value – politicalbetting.com

TheScreamingEagles said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Cannot believe the Tories are whipping against investigating Boris Johnson.

Every MP that votes for that disgrace are going to get beaten like morning wood at the next election.

Labour MPs did not vote to investigate Blair over WMD misleading in Parliament

The Conservatives should have higher standards than 'as bad as Blair.'

Just catching up but it looks like HMG have thrown in the towel on this one:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/20/boris-johnson-abandons-efforts-block-inquiry-on-misleading-commons-over-partygate

HYUFD said:

StuartDickson said:

HYUFD said:

StuartDickson said:

- “… with his ratings and Tory voting numbers in apparent freefall…”

Five more Deltapoll-scale findings and I reckon he’s history. Tory MPs are clearly not interested in ethics, but the slimeballs won’t look forward to re-entering the jobs market just as England regains her Sick Man of Europe title.

London
Lab 50%
Con 20%

Rest of South
Con 43%
Lab 37%

Midlands
Con 47%
Lab 37%

North
Lab 54%
Con 24%

Scotland
SNP 49%
Lab 29%
Con 15%

Wales
Lab 56%
PC 19%
Con 13%

(Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday; Sample Size: 1,550; Fieldwork: 13th - 14th April 2022)

10% poll lead in the Midlands is hardly devastating for him

Now you’re moving the goalposts. Previously it was a 10 point deficit which was your Ditch Johnson benchmark. Now a 10 point Con lead in one region is sufficient to save him.

How bad does Con VI need to be before you advocate a fresh leader? Fifteen point deficit? A deficit in every single country and region?

Most polls do not have a Labour lead of 10%+ UK wide

The way the conservatives are going they will be a lot more than that behind Labour in the next few weeks

I do think that Boris is now terminally wounded and will be voted out by his mps by the early summer

It is over @HYUFD

HYUFD said:

Stuartinromford said:

Carnyx said:

Interesting to see No 10 and Mr J relentlessly attacking the C of E.

He is, of course, de facto Head vice HMtQ.

What's the point of an Established Church if the Conservative Party feel totally free to order it about, and ignore it?

How long before the C of E sheds the Erastian heresy and moves to disestablishment?

Who is the most senior practising Anglican in the government?

Come to think of it, who is the most senior minister who would put "C of E" in the box labelled "religion" on a form, without thinking about it much?

Raab is Church of England, albeit he is half Jewish too

So that's only 50% probability. Or maybe 52% or 48%. You need to do better than that.

EPG said:

HYUFD said:

EPG said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

Pagan2 said:

Carnyx said:

Pagan2 said:

IshmaelZ said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.

hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"

On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.

shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs

If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.

No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway

Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.

Yes it should, the whole point we have the established church is to stop Rome again being our main established Catholic church, as it is in Scotland for instance where there is only a choice between Roman Catholic Popery or Presbyterian evangelicals. The Scottish Episcopal Anglican church is just a small minority church now.

Not to mention the Parish system in England of the established church guarantees every Parishioner a church wedding or funeral regardless of how often they attend church

Trying to start the Gordon Riots again?

If I were an active Christian Scot I would be really angry at your description of Scottish religion as an Old Firm plus Partick Thistle. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that, starting with the Quakers.

And your latter point is utterly irrelevant to your political worldview. It's a moral and pastoral one. it doesn't mean that Mr J pp HMtQ has to be i/c the C of E. In any case, what't the point of a boss of the C of E who keeps slagging it off?

And there are numerous state and ex-state church arrangements across Europe that don't involve legislative power for bishops, and which aren't "Popery", to use HYUFD's sectarian slur.

Almost every other nation in Europe has the Roman Catholic church or the Orthodox Church as its largest church.

The main exceptions are nations like Norway and Denmark which also have the Protestant Lutheran church as their established church

Irrelevant to your claim that England would "go Catholic" if it switched to a Swedish or Dutch system. Your rhetoric is stuck in the era of Popery paranoia and witch hunts.

Wait until he finds out Boris Johnson is a Papist.

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Cannot believe the Tories are whipping against investigating Boris Johnson.

Every MP that votes for that disgrace are going to get beaten like morning wood at the next election.

Labour MPs did not vote to investigate Blair over WMD misleading in Parliament

The Conservatives should have higher standards than 'as bad as Blair.'

Just catching up but it looks like HMG have thrown in the towel on this one:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/20/boris-johnson-abandons-efforts-block-inquiry-on-misleading-commons-over-partygate

Not so much thrown in the towel but jammed it into the U-bend to try and stop the due processes of flushing.

It must be a very difficult time for anyone who is a lickspittle for both Bozo and the Church of England.

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

Pagan2 said:

Carnyx said:

Pagan2 said:

IshmaelZ said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.

hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"

On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.

shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs

If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.

No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway

Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.

Yes it should, the whole point we have the established church is to stop Rome again being our main established Catholic church, as it is in Scotland for instance where there is only a choice between Roman Catholic Popery or Presbyterian evangelicals. The Scottish Episcopal Anglican church is just a small minority church now.

Not to mention the Parish system in England of the established church guarantees every Parishioner a church wedding or funeral regardless of how often they attend church

Trying to start the Gordon Riots again?

If I were an active Christian Scot I would be really angry at your description of Scottish religion as an Old Firm plus Partick Thistle. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that, starting with the Quakers.

And your latter point is utterly irrelevant to your political worldview. It's a moral and pastoral one. it doesn't mean that Mr J pp HMtQ has to be i/c the C of E. In any case, what't the point of a boss of the C of E who keeps slagging it off?

The Quakers are also a tiny minority in Scotland. Scottish religion has been and still is dominated by Roman Catholicism a la Celtic and Church of Scotland evangelical Presbyterianism a la Rangers or even more hardline evangelism in the Free Church of Scotland.

The reason England still has the Church of England as its largest church, not the Roman Catholic church or hardcore evangelicals, is the Church of England is the established church.

Mr Johnson is not Supreme Governor of the C of E, the Queen is, Mr Johnson is not even Anglican but Roman Catholic

But the C of E is absolutely full of romanists and hardline evangelicals anyway. So it's useless for the reason you clam. It's just a political construct to provide an ideological arm for the English state which is long out of date. The Scottish equivalent would be sacrificing a virgin on the summit of Arthur's Seat every Beltane dawn.

No it isn't. The largest group in the Church of England is liberals with a smaller group of conservative evangelicals and a tiny subset of Anglo Catholics still (many of whom went to Rome already over women priests).

Is that still the case? I'd have put the centre of gravity of the C of E roughly at soft-charismatic-evangelical, as in Holy Trinity Brompton, the Alpha course and all that. (For those who remember it, the chruch in "Rev" that served smoothies and was full of shiny happy people.) Which is the tradition that Justin Welby came from, though I think he has moved some way away from it.

Not hardcore conservative evangelicals, sure, but not liberal in the way that Robert Runcie would have recognised.

Scott_xP said:

Craig Whittaker MP says that he has called for the PM to resign over his "law-breaking" and he should be willing to refer himself to the privileges committee.

#TheTake: https://news.sky.com/

📺 Sky 501, Virgin 602, Freeview 233 and YouTube https://twitter.com/RidgeOnSunday/status/1516875939275284482/video/1

I hold my hand up, I didn't think any MPs would actually wait for the fines before deciding that was the line, especially as others moved in the other direction.

SandyRentool said:

It must be a very difficult time for anyone who is a lickspittle for both Bozo and the Church of England.

Quite. Though I'd say the Tories, and emphjasise Mr J's role as de facto head of the C of E pp HMtQ rather than his formal RCism:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/20/pmqs-boris-johnson-denies-bbc-criticism-no-justin-welby-apology

'A series of prominent Church of England figures defended Welby and the archbishop of York, Stephen Cottrell, with one saying those who questioned their right to criticise the controversial Rwanda scheme “need to acquaint themselves with the most basic rudiments of Christianity”.'

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

StuartDickson said:

HYUFD said:

StuartDickson said:

- “… with his ratings and Tory voting numbers in apparent freefall…”

Five more Deltapoll-scale findings and I reckon he’s history. Tory MPs are clearly not interested in ethics, but the slimeballs won’t look forward to re-entering the jobs market just as England regains her Sick Man of Europe title.

London
Lab 50%
Con 20%

Rest of South
Con 43%
Lab 37%

Midlands
Con 47%
Lab 37%

North
Lab 54%
Con 24%

Scotland
SNP 49%
Lab 29%
Con 15%

Wales
Lab 56%
PC 19%
Con 13%

(Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday; Sample Size: 1,550; Fieldwork: 13th - 14th April 2022)

10% poll lead in the Midlands is hardly devastating for him

Now you’re moving the goalposts. Previously it was a 10 point deficit which was your Ditch Johnson benchmark. Now a 10 point Con lead in one region is sufficient to save him.

How bad does Con VI need to be before you advocate a fresh leader? Fifteen point deficit? A deficit in every single country and region?

Most polls do not have a Labour lead of 10%+ UK wide

The way the conservatives are going they will be a lot more than that behind Labour in the next few weeks

I do think that Boris is now terminally wounded and will be voted out by his mps by the early summer

It is over @HYUFD

I'm with @HYUFD on this.

Somehow or other Boris survives and goes on to win the autumn 2023 general election (though Con majority is halved) as Keith Starmer bores most of his potential voters into a slumber!

Labour wins in 2028 though!

Lol @ Chelski

StuartDickson said:

HYUFD said:

EPG said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

Pagan2 said:

Carnyx said:

Pagan2 said:

IshmaelZ said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.

hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"

On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.

shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs

If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.

No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway

Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.

Yes it should, the whole point we have the established church is to stop Rome again being our main established Catholic church, as it is in Scotland for instance where there is only a choice between Roman Catholic Popery or Presbyterian evangelicals. The Scottish Episcopal Anglican church is just a small minority church now.

Not to mention the Parish system in England of the established church guarantees every Parishioner a church wedding or funeral regardless of how often they attend church

Trying to start the Gordon Riots again?

If I were an active Christian Scot I would be really angry at your description of Scottish religion as an Old Firm plus Partick Thistle. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that, starting with the Quakers.

And your latter point is utterly irrelevant to your political worldview. It's a moral and pastoral one. it doesn't mean that Mr J pp HMtQ has to be i/c the C of E. In any case, what't the point of a boss of the C of E who keeps slagging it off?

And there are numerous state and ex-state church arrangements across Europe that don't involve legislative power for bishops, and which aren't "Popery", to use HYUFD's sectarian slur.

Almost every other nation in Europe has the Roman Catholic church or the Orthodox Church as its largest church.

The main exceptions are nations like Norway and Denmark which also have the Protestant Lutheran church as their established church

Not like you to forget the Jocks. Keep up the tank maintenance.

I recently acquired a remaindered book about nothing but dummy Panzers - actually very interesting (a core element of Reichswehr/Wehrmacht training, as well as PR as in your pic): this sort of training Panzer:

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-soldaten-der-reichswehr-bewegen-nachbildungen-von-panzern-in-einem-87863712.html?pv=1&stamp=2&imageid=3F9D4A1B-C5F1-431C-9AE4-3E2168E736FC&p=291620&n=0&orientation=0&pn=1&searchtype=0&IsFromSearch=1&srch=foo=bar&st=0&pn=1&ps=100&sortby=2&resultview=sortbyPopular&npgs=0&qt=panzerattrappen&qt_raw=panzerattrappen&lic=3&mr=0&pr=0&ot=0&creative=&ag=0&hc=0&pc=&blackwhite=&cutout=&tbar=1&et=0x000000000000000000000&vp=0&loc=0&imgt=0&dtfr=&dtto=&size=0xFF&archive=1&groupid=&pseudoid=&a=&cdid=&cdsrt=&name=&qn=&apalib=&apalic=&lightbox=&gname=&gtype=&xstx=0&simid=&saveQry=&editorial=1&nu=&t=&edoptin=&customgeoip=&cap=1&cbstore=1&vd=0&lb=&fi=2&edrf=&ispremium=1&flip=0&pl=

RochdalePioneers said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Cannot believe the Tories are whipping against investigating Boris Johnson.

Every MP that votes for that disgrace are going to get beaten like morning wood at the next election.

And hopefully every council candidate who parades themselves with those MPs.

No wonder Mr J and the C-word have been airbrushed from ScoTories electoral bumf.

GIN1138 said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

StuartDickson said:

HYUFD said:

StuartDickson said:

- “… with his ratings and Tory voting numbers in apparent freefall…”

Five more Deltapoll-scale findings and I reckon he’s history. Tory MPs are clearly not interested in ethics, but the slimeballs won’t look forward to re-entering the jobs market just as England regains her Sick Man of Europe title.

London
Lab 50%
Con 20%

Rest of South
Con 43%
Lab 37%

Midlands
Con 47%
Lab 37%

North
Lab 54%
Con 24%

Scotland
SNP 49%
Lab 29%
Con 15%

Wales
Lab 56%
PC 19%
Con 13%

(Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday; Sample Size: 1,550; Fieldwork: 13th - 14th April 2022)

10% poll lead in the Midlands is hardly devastating for him

Now you’re moving the goalposts. Previously it was a 10 point deficit which was your Ditch Johnson benchmark. Now a 10 point Con lead in one region is sufficient to save him.

How bad does Con VI need to be before you advocate a fresh leader? Fifteen point deficit? A deficit in every single country and region?

Most polls do not have a Labour lead of 10%+ UK wide

The way the conservatives are going they will be a lot more than that behind Labour in the next few weeks

I do think that Boris is now terminally wounded and will be voted out by his mps by the early summer

It is over @HYUFD

I'm with @HYUFD on this.

Somehow or other Boris survives and goes on to win the autumn 2023 general election (though Con majority is halved) as Keith Starmer bores most of his potential voters into a slumber!

Labour wins in 2028 though!

Not if someone from the Socialist Campaign Group takes over following a defeat. Very unlikely, but we thought the same about Corbyn winning the leadership seven years ago.

Stuartinromford said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

Pagan2 said:

Carnyx said:

Pagan2 said:

IshmaelZ said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.

hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"

On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.

shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs

If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.

No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway

Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.

Yes it should, the whole point we have the established church is to stop Rome again being our main established Catholic church, as it is in Scotland for instance where there is only a choice between Roman Catholic Popery or Presbyterian evangelicals. The Scottish Episcopal Anglican church is just a small minority church now.

Not to mention the Parish system in England of the established church guarantees every Parishioner a church wedding or funeral regardless of how often they attend church

Trying to start the Gordon Riots again?

If I were an active Christian Scot I would be really angry at your description of Scottish religion as an Old Firm plus Partick Thistle. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that, starting with the Quakers.

And your latter point is utterly irrelevant to your political worldview. It's a moral and pastoral one. it doesn't mean that Mr J pp HMtQ has to be i/c the C of E. In any case, what't the point of a boss of the C of E who keeps slagging it off?

The Quakers are also a tiny minority in Scotland. Scottish religion has been and still is dominated by Roman Catholicism a la Celtic and Church of Scotland evangelical Presbyterianism a la Rangers or even more hardline evangelism in the Free Church of Scotland.

The reason England still has the Church of England as its largest church, not the Roman Catholic church or hardcore evangelicals, is the Church of England is the established church.

Mr Johnson is not Supreme Governor of the C of E, the Queen is, Mr Johnson is not even Anglican but Roman Catholic

But the C of E is absolutely full of romanists and hardline evangelicals anyway. So it's useless for the reason you clam. It's just a political construct to provide an ideological arm for the English state which is long out of date. The Scottish equivalent would be sacrificing a virgin on the summit of Arthur's Seat every Beltane dawn.

No it isn't. The largest group in the Church of England is liberals with a smaller group of conservative evangelicals and a tiny subset of Anglo Catholics still (many of whom went to Rome already over women priests).

Is that still the case? I'd have put the centre of gravity of the C of E roughly at soft-charismatic-evangelical, as in Holy Trinity Brompton, the Alpha course and all that. (For those who remember it, the chruch in "Rev" that served smoothies and was full of shiny happy people.) Which is the tradition that Justin Welby came from, though I think he has moved some way away from it.

Not hardcore conservative evangelicals, sure, but not liberal in the way that Robert Runcie would have recognised.

In the Synod elections last year 131 candidates from the liberal 'inclusive church' wing were elected, with 30 Anglo Catholics.

On gay marriage revisionists and Orthodox evangelicals were about equal overall but revisionists were ahead in the House of Clergy

https://www.churchtimes.co.uk/articles/2021/22-october/news/uk/high-turnover-in-general-synod-elections
https://www.psephizo.com/life-ministry/what-will-the-new-general-synod-look-like/

Macron looks like an effeminate, highly arrogant young man wearisomely forced to lecture his plodding, if well meaning mother, for the umpteenth time, and unable to conceal his abiding, slightly sinister contempt for her

No wonder he wins, it is the repeat of his marriage

EPG said:

HYUFD said:

EPG said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

EPG said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

Pagan2 said:

Carnyx said:

Pagan2 said:

IshmaelZ said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.

hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"

On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.

shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs

If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.

No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway

Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.

Yes it should, the whole point we have the established church is to stop Rome again being our main established Catholic church, as it is in Scotland for instance where there is only a choice between Roman Catholic Popery or Presbyterian evangelicals. The Scottish Episcopal Anglican church is just a small minority church now.

Not to mention the Parish system in England of the established church guarantees every Parishioner a church wedding or funeral regardless of how often they attend church

Trying to start the Gordon Riots again?

If I were an active Christian Scot I would be really angry at your description of Scottish religion as an Old Firm plus Partick Thistle. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that, starting with the Quakers.

And your latter point is utterly irrelevant to your political worldview. It's a moral and pastoral one. it doesn't mean that Mr J pp HMtQ has to be i/c the C of E. In any case, what't the point of a boss of the C of E who keeps slagging it off?

And there are numerous state and ex-state church arrangements across Europe that don't involve legislative power for bishops, and which aren't "Popery", to use HYUFD's sectarian slur.

Almost every other nation in Europe has the Roman Catholic church or the Orthodox Church as its largest church.

The main exceptions are nations like Norway and Denmark which also have the Protestant Lutheran church as their established church

Largest does not equate established.

It does, even in Germany and the Netherlands now, which used to be Protestant, they have the Roman Catholic church as their largest church as they have no established Protestant church like we, the Danes and Norwegians do

But it is pretty likely that the RCC has had the highest weekly attendance in England for a fair amount of the last 50 years, even if we don't have great stats on it. So what are you defending?

47% C of E, 10% Roman Catholic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_England

And almost none of the 47% go to church. I didn't know you were a fan of self-ID

What has that got to do with it? If the C of E was not the established church many would not even identify with it and the Roman Catholic church would again be our largest church.

Plus of course the end of the Parish system means no automatic right to church weddings or funerals for Parishioners for non church attendees

In the unlikely event PBers aren’t aware, France24 HD with live translation on Virgin cable Channel 624

Carnyx said:

SandyRentool said:

It must be a very difficult time for anyone who is a lickspittle for both Bozo and the Church of England.

Quite. Though I'd say the Tories, and emphjasise Mr J's role as de facto head of the C of E pp HMtQ rather than his formal RCism:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/20/pmqs-boris-johnson-denies-bbc-criticism-no-justin-welby-apology

'A series of prominent Church of England figures defended Welby and the archbishop of York, Stephen Cottrell, with one saying those who questioned their right to criticise the controversial Rwanda scheme “need to acquaint themselves with the most basic rudiments of Christianity”.'

Rubbish, Boris has no role in the C of E whatsoever, Raab even advises the Queen on Bishop appointments now not Boris

EPG said:

HYUFD said:

EPG said:

HYUFD said:

EPG said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

Pagan2 said:

Carnyx said:

Pagan2 said:

IshmaelZ said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.

hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"

On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.

shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs

If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.

No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway

Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.

Yes it should, the whole point we have the established church is to stop Rome again being our main established Catholic church, as it is in Scotland for instance where there is only a choice between Roman Catholic Popery or Presbyterian evangelicals. The Scottish Episcopal Anglican church is just a small minority church now.

Not to mention the Parish system in England of the established church guarantees every Parishioner a church wedding or funeral regardless of how often they attend church

Trying to start the Gordon Riots again?

If I were an active Christian Scot I would be really angry at your description of Scottish religion as an Old Firm plus Partick Thistle. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that, starting with the Quakers.

And your latter point is utterly irrelevant to your political worldview. It's a moral and pastoral one. it doesn't mean that Mr J pp HMtQ has to be i/c the C of E. In any case, what't the point of a boss of the C of E who keeps slagging it off?

And there are numerous state and ex-state church arrangements across Europe that don't involve legislative power for bishops, and which aren't "Popery", to use HYUFD's sectarian slur.

Almost every other nation in Europe has the Roman Catholic church or the Orthodox Church as its largest church.

The main exceptions are nations like Norway and Denmark which also have the Protestant Lutheran church as their established church

Irrelevant to your claim that England would "go Catholic" if it switched to a Swedish or Dutch system. Your rhetoric is stuck in the era of Popery paranoia and witch hunts.

The largest church in the Netherlands is now the Roman Catholic church, when once it was a Protestant majority nation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Netherlands

At various points in recent history, the largest church in England was the Catholic Church.

BEFORE the Reformation when we had no Protestant established church

londonpubman said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

My wife and I have returned our postal votes for the two independent (non coset conservatives) candidates for may and have no regrets whatsoever for not voting conservative for the first time at the locals

Boris has to go and his mps have to move against him post may elections

Don't tell @HYUFD

He voted for Plaid would you believe and something I would never do

londonpubman said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

My wife and I have returned our postal votes for the two independent (non coset conservatives) candidates for may and have no regrets whatsoever for not voting conservative for the first time at the locals

Boris has to go and his mps have to move against him post may elections

Don't tell @HYUFD

Given BigG voted for Blair twice it is hardly that surprising

Leon said:

Macron looks like an effeminate, highly arrogant young man wearisomely forced to lecture his plodding, if well meaning mother, for the umpteenth time, and unable to conceal his abiding, slightly sinister contempt for her

No wonder he wins, it is the repeat of his marriage

Seems a bit Gore in 2000 debates from Macron here, sneering and effortlessly superior

HYUFD said:

EPG said:

HYUFD said:

EPG said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

EPG said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

Pagan2 said:

Carnyx said:

Pagan2 said:

IshmaelZ said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.

hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"

On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.

shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs

If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.

No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway

Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.

Yes it should, the whole point we have the established church is to stop Rome again being our main established Catholic church, as it is in Scotland for instance where there is only a choice between Roman Catholic Popery or Presbyterian evangelicals. The Scottish Episcopal Anglican church is just a small minority church now.

Not to mention the Parish system in England of the established church guarantees every Parishioner a church wedding or funeral regardless of how often they attend church

Trying to start the Gordon Riots again?

If I were an active Christian Scot I would be really angry at your description of Scottish religion as an Old Firm plus Partick Thistle. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that, starting with the Quakers.

And your latter point is utterly irrelevant to your political worldview. It's a moral and pastoral one. it doesn't mean that Mr J pp HMtQ has to be i/c the C of E. In any case, what't the point of a boss of the C of E who keeps slagging it off?

And there are numerous state and ex-state church arrangements across Europe that don't involve legislative power for bishops, and which aren't "Popery", to use HYUFD's sectarian slur.

Almost every other nation in Europe has the Roman Catholic church or the Orthodox Church as its largest church.

The main exceptions are nations like Norway and Denmark which also have the Protestant Lutheran church as their established church

Largest does not equate established.

It does, even in Germany and the Netherlands now, which used to be Protestant, they have the Roman Catholic church as their largest church as they have no established Protestant church like we, the Danes and Norwegians do

But it is pretty likely that the RCC has had the highest weekly attendance in England for a fair amount of the last 50 years, even if we don't have great stats on it. So what are you defending?

47% C of E, 10% Roman Catholic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_England

And almost none of the 47% go to church. I didn't know you were a fan of self-ID

What has that got to do with it? If the C of E was not the established church many would not even identify with it and the Roman Catholic church would again be our largest church.

Plus of course the end of the Parish system means no automatic right to church weddings or funerals for Parishioners for non church attendees

The last point is rather the point. I wouldn't rock up to the local Jedi temple and demand a burial if I had never been an active member.

Unless you think that being a member of the C of E is somehow, erm. 'English' in a way that other religions and non-religions are not.

RandallFlagg said:

GIN1138 said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

StuartDickson said:

HYUFD said:

StuartDickson said:

- “… with his ratings and Tory voting numbers in apparent freefall…”

Five more Deltapoll-scale findings and I reckon he’s history. Tory MPs are clearly not interested in ethics, but the slimeballs won’t look forward to re-entering the jobs market just as England regains her Sick Man of Europe title.

London
Lab 50%
Con 20%

Rest of South
Con 43%
Lab 37%

Midlands
Con 47%
Lab 37%

North
Lab 54%
Con 24%

Scotland
SNP 49%
Lab 29%
Con 15%

Wales
Lab 56%
PC 19%
Con 13%

(Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday; Sample Size: 1,550; Fieldwork: 13th - 14th April 2022)

10% poll lead in the Midlands is hardly devastating for him

Now you’re moving the goalposts. Previously it was a 10 point deficit which was your Ditch Johnson benchmark. Now a 10 point Con lead in one region is sufficient to save him.

How bad does Con VI need to be before you advocate a fresh leader? Fifteen point deficit? A deficit in every single country and region?

Most polls do not have a Labour lead of 10%+ UK wide

The way the conservatives are going they will be a lot more than that behind Labour in the next few weeks

I do think that Boris is now terminally wounded and will be voted out by his mps by the early summer

It is over @HYUFD

I'm with @HYUFD on this.

Somehow or other Boris survives and goes on to win the autumn 2023 general election (though Con majority is halved) as Keith Starmer bores most of his potential voters into a slumber!

Labour wins in 2028 though!

Not if someone from the Socialist Campaign Group takes over following a defeat. Very unlikely, but we thought the same about Corbyn winning the leadership seven years ago.

At the moment it is more likely the Tories will be moving further right than Labour move left again if the polls are right and Starmer will be next PM.

If not then you may be right

StuartDickson said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

StuartDickson said:

HYUFD said:

StuartDickson said:

- “… with his ratings and Tory voting numbers in apparent freefall…”

Five more Deltapoll-scale findings and I reckon he’s history. Tory MPs are clearly not interested in ethics, but the slimeballs won’t look forward to re-entering the jobs market just as England regains her Sick Man of Europe title.

London
Lab 50%
Con 20%

Rest of South
Con 43%
Lab 37%

Midlands
Con 47%
Lab 37%

North
Lab 54%
Con 24%

Scotland
SNP 49%
Lab 29%
Con 15%

Wales
Lab 56%
PC 19%
Con 13%

(Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday; Sample Size: 1,550; Fieldwork: 13th - 14th April 2022)

10% poll lead in the Midlands is hardly devastating for him

Now you’re moving the goalposts. Previously it was a 10 point deficit which was your Ditch Johnson benchmark. Now a 10 point Con lead in one region is sufficient to save him.

How bad does Con VI need to be before you advocate a fresh leader? Fifteen point deficit? A deficit in every single country and region?

Most polls do not have a Labour lead of 10%+ UK wide

The way the conservatives are going they will be a lot more than that behind Labour in the next few weeks

I do think that Boris is now terminally wounded and will be voted out by his mps by the early summer

It is over @HYUFD

But if he’s not, you’ll manage to find ten more excuses to change your mind. Even Douglas Ross doesn’t u-turn as often as you.

You are clearly not following my posts utterly condemning Boris and he has to go

When he goes I will vote conservative otherwise it will be lib dem or independent at GE24

Big_G_NorthWales said:

londonpubman said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

My wife and I have returned our postal votes for the two independent (non coset conservatives) candidates for may and have no regrets whatsoever for not voting conservative for the first time at the locals

Boris has to go and his mps have to move against him post may elections

Don't tell @HYUFD

He voted for Plaid would you believe and something I would never do

Only after I have voted for all 4 Tory candidates on the ballot paper to use all my 6 votes.

Did you vote Tory as well as New Labour in 1997 and 2001?

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

EPG said:

HYUFD said:

EPG said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

EPG said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

Pagan2 said:

Carnyx said:

Pagan2 said:

IshmaelZ said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.

hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"

On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.

shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs

If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.

No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway

Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.

Yes it should, the whole point we have the established church is to stop Rome again being our main established Catholic church, as it is in Scotland for instance where there is only a choice between Roman Catholic Popery or Presbyterian evangelicals. The Scottish Episcopal Anglican church is just a small minority church now.

Not to mention the Parish system in England of the established church guarantees every Parishioner a church wedding or funeral regardless of how often they attend church

Trying to start the Gordon Riots again?

If I were an active Christian Scot I would be really angry at your description of Scottish religion as an Old Firm plus Partick Thistle. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that, starting with the Quakers.

And your latter point is utterly irrelevant to your political worldview. It's a moral and pastoral one. it doesn't mean that Mr J pp HMtQ has to be i/c the C of E. In any case, what't the point of a boss of the C of E who keeps slagging it off?

And there are numerous state and ex-state church arrangements across Europe that don't involve legislative power for bishops, and which aren't "Popery", to use HYUFD's sectarian slur.

Almost every other nation in Europe has the Roman Catholic church or the Orthodox Church as its largest church.

The main exceptions are nations like Norway and Denmark which also have the Protestant Lutheran church as their established church

Largest does not equate established.

It does, even in Germany and the Netherlands now, which used to be Protestant, they have the Roman Catholic church as their largest church as they have no established Protestant church like we, the Danes and Norwegians do

But it is pretty likely that the RCC has had the highest weekly attendance in England for a fair amount of the last 50 years, even if we don't have great stats on it. So what are you defending?

47% C of E, 10% Roman Catholic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_England

And almost none of the 47% go to church. I didn't know you were a fan of self-ID

What has that got to do with it? If the C of E was not the established church many would not even identify with it and the Roman Catholic church would again be our largest church.

Plus of course the end of the Parish system means no automatic right to church weddings or funerals for Parishioners for non church attendees

The last point is rather the point. I wouldn't rock up to the local Jedi temple and demand a burial if I had never been an active member.

Unless you think that being a member of the C of E is somehow, erm. 'English' in a way that other religions and non-religions are not.

To some extent country historic Church of England Parish churches are very much part of England, as much as Morris Dancing and Village Green cricket and traditional pubs. Even if you are not very religious

Carnyx said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Cannot believe the Tories are whipping against investigating Boris Johnson.

Every MP that votes for that disgrace are going to get beaten like morning wood at the next election.

Labour MPs did not vote to investigate Blair over WMD misleading in Parliament

The Conservatives should have higher standards than 'as bad as Blair.'

Just catching up but it looks like HMG have thrown in the towel on this one:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/20/boris-johnson-abandons-efforts-block-inquiry-on-misleading-commons-over-partygate

Not so much thrown in the towel but jammed it into the U-bend to try and stop the due processes of flushing.

I see we are back to bloody Sue Grey report.

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

EPG said:

HYUFD said:

EPG said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

EPG said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

Pagan2 said:

Carnyx said:

Pagan2 said:

IshmaelZ said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.

hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"

On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.

shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs

If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.

No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway

Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.

Yes it should, the whole point we have the established church is to stop Rome again being our main established Catholic church, as it is in Scotland for instance where there is only a choice between Roman Catholic Popery or Presbyterian evangelicals. The Scottish Episcopal Anglican church is just a small minority church now.

Not to mention the Parish system in England of the established church guarantees every Parishioner a church wedding or funeral regardless of how often they attend church

Trying to start the Gordon Riots again?

If I were an active Christian Scot I would be really angry at your description of Scottish religion as an Old Firm plus Partick Thistle. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that, starting with the Quakers.

And your latter point is utterly irrelevant to your political worldview. It's a moral and pastoral one. it doesn't mean that Mr J pp HMtQ has to be i/c the C of E. In any case, what't the point of a boss of the C of E who keeps slagging it off?

And there are numerous state and ex-state church arrangements across Europe that don't involve legislative power for bishops, and which aren't "Popery", to use HYUFD's sectarian slur.

Almost every other nation in Europe has the Roman Catholic church or the Orthodox Church as its largest church.

The main exceptions are nations like Norway and Denmark which also have the Protestant Lutheran church as their established church

Largest does not equate established.

It does, even in Germany and the Netherlands now, which used to be Protestant, they have the Roman Catholic church as their largest church as they have no established Protestant church like we, the Danes and Norwegians do

But it is pretty likely that the RCC has had the highest weekly attendance in England for a fair amount of the last 50 years, even if we don't have great stats on it. So what are you defending?

47% C of E, 10% Roman Catholic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_England

And almost none of the 47% go to church. I didn't know you were a fan of self-ID

What has that got to do with it? If the C of E was not the established church many would not even identify with it and the Roman Catholic church would again be our largest church.

Plus of course the end of the Parish system means no automatic right to church weddings or funerals for Parishioners for non church attendees

The last point is rather the point. I wouldn't rock up to the local Jedi temple and demand a burial if I had never been an active member.

Unless you think that being a member of the C of E is somehow, erm. 'English' in a way that other religions and non-religions are not.

As the established church the CofE has an obligation to marry anyone who wants to be married, subject to Canon Law.

rottenborough said:

Carnyx said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Cannot believe the Tories are whipping against investigating Boris Johnson.

Every MP that votes for that disgrace are going to get beaten like morning wood at the next election.

Labour MPs did not vote to investigate Blair over WMD misleading in Parliament

The Conservatives should have higher standards than 'as bad as Blair.'

Just catching up but it looks like HMG have thrown in the towel on this one:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/20/boris-johnson-abandons-efforts-block-inquiry-on-misleading-commons-over-partygate

Not so much thrown in the towel but jammed it into the U-bend to try and stop the due processes of flushing.

I see we are back to bloody Sue Grey report.

Gray shirley?

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Got visited by Wandsworth Tories today.

I asked if they would support putting Johnson in jail, they left quickly

On what charge?

StuartDickson said:

Farooq said:

HYUFD said:

StuartDickson said:

- “… with his ratings and Tory voting numbers in apparent freefall…”

Five more Deltapoll-scale findings and I reckon he’s history. Tory MPs are clearly not interested in ethics, but the slimeballs won’t look forward to re-entering the jobs market just as England regains her Sick Man of Europe title.

London
Lab 50%
Con 20%

Rest of South
Con 43%
Lab 37%

Midlands
Con 47%
Lab 37%

North
Lab 54%
Con 24%

Scotland
SNP 49%
Lab 29%
Con 15%

Wales
Lab 56%
PC 19%
Con 13%

(Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday; Sample Size: 1,550; Fieldwork: 13th - 14th April 2022)

10% poll lead in the Midlands is hardly devastating for him

34% off the pace in Scotland is, though.

Boris:
10 points off the pace in England.
30 point off the pace in Scotland.
40 points off the pace in Wales.
AWOL in Ireland.

Conservative MPs are out of their tiny minds.

What the feck is wrong with my fellow Midlanders? 47-37? Incredible given Johnson's last few weeks.

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

londonpubman said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

My wife and I have returned our postal votes for the two independent (non coset conservatives) candidates for may and have no regrets whatsoever for not voting conservative for the first time at the locals

Boris has to go and his mps have to move against him post may elections

Don't tell @HYUFD

He voted for Plaid would you believe and something I would never do

Only after I have voted for all 4 Tory candidates on the ballot paper to use all my 6 votes.

Did you vote Tory as well as New Labour in 1997 and 2001?

Thank goodness there weren't just two BNP candidates to choose from.

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Got visited by Wandsworth Tories today.

I asked if they would support putting Johnson in jail, they left quickly

Hopefully AFTER you detained them for 45 minutes giving them tea and asking questions regarding Conservative & Unionist position on ferret breading, badger baiting AND whether or not UAPs should be allowed to participate in AV elections.

Addendum - God knows what fiendishness (or relish) is implicated in ferret "breading"!

Certainly sounds lot less fun for the ferrets than ferret breeding.

Carnyx said:

TOPPING said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

EPG said:

HYUFD said:

EPG said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

EPG said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

Pagan2 said:

Carnyx said:

Pagan2 said:

IshmaelZ said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.

hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"

On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.

shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs

If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.

No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway

Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.

Yes it should, the whole point we have the established church is to stop Rome again being our main established Catholic church, as it is in Scotland for instance where there is only a choice between Roman Catholic Popery or Presbyterian evangelicals. The Scottish Episcopal Anglican church is just a small minority church now.

Not to mention the Parish system in England of the established church guarantees every Parishioner a church wedding or funeral regardless of how often they attend church

Trying to start the Gordon Riots again?

If I were an active Christian Scot I would be really angry at your description of Scottish religion as an Old Firm plus Partick Thistle. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that, starting with the Quakers.

And your latter point is utterly irrelevant to your political worldview. It's a moral and pastoral one. it doesn't mean that Mr J pp HMtQ has to be i/c the C of E. In any case, what't the point of a boss of the C of E who keeps slagging it off?

And there are numerous state and ex-state church arrangements across Europe that don't involve legislative power for bishops, and which aren't "Popery", to use HYUFD's sectarian slur.

Almost every other nation in Europe has the Roman Catholic church or the Orthodox Church as its largest church.

The main exceptions are nations like Norway and Denmark which also have the Protestant Lutheran church as their established church

Largest does not equate established.

It does, even in Germany and the Netherlands now, which used to be Protestant, they have the Roman Catholic church as their largest church as they have no established Protestant church like we, the Danes and Norwegians do

But it is pretty likely that the RCC has had the highest weekly attendance in England for a fair amount of the last 50 years, even if we don't have great stats on it. So what are you defending?

47% C of E, 10% Roman Catholic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_England

And almost none of the 47% go to church. I didn't know you were a fan of self-ID

What has that got to do with it? If the C of E was not the established church many would not even identify with it and the Roman Catholic church would again be our largest church.

Plus of course the end of the Parish system means no automatic right to church weddings or funerals for Parishioners for non church attendees

The last point is rather the point. I wouldn't rock up to the local Jedi temple and demand a burial if I had never been an active member.

Unless you think that being a member of the C of E is somehow, erm. 'English' in a way that other religions and non-religions are not.

As the established church the CofE has an obligation to marry anyone who wants to be married, subject to Canon Law.

What's wrong with the registry office? Strip religions of any marriage powers and keep it in the hands of the state. It's a legal contract (and always was in Scotland, not a religious sacrament).

Oh I agree just that as it stands the CofE has that obligation.

rottenborough said:

StuartDickson said:

Farooq said:

HYUFD said:

StuartDickson said:

- “… with his ratings and Tory voting numbers in apparent freefall…”

Five more Deltapoll-scale findings and I reckon he’s history. Tory MPs are clearly not interested in ethics, but the slimeballs won’t look forward to re-entering the jobs market just as England regains her Sick Man of Europe title.

London
Lab 50%
Con 20%

Rest of South
Con 43%
Lab 37%

Midlands
Con 47%
Lab 37%

North
Lab 54%
Con 24%

Scotland
SNP 49%
Lab 29%
Con 15%

Wales
Lab 56%
PC 19%
Con 13%

(Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday; Sample Size: 1,550; Fieldwork: 13th - 14th April 2022)

10% poll lead in the Midlands is hardly devastating for him

34% off the pace in Scotland is, though.

Boris:
10 points off the pace in England.
30 point off the pace in Scotland.
40 points off the pace in Wales.
AWOL in Ireland.

Conservative MPs are out of their tiny minds.

What the feck is wrong with my fellow Midlanders? 47-37? Incredible given Johnson's last few weeks.

Dunno. I can’t understand it either. In my part of the midlands we have sensible(ish) greens who are making the running, so at least I’ve got someone positive to vote for.

Birmingham labour is pretty hated, with good reason, so that may well explain it.

rottenborough said:

StuartDickson said:

Farooq said:

HYUFD said:

StuartDickson said:

- “… with his ratings and Tory voting numbers in apparent freefall…”

Five more Deltapoll-scale findings and I reckon he’s history. Tory MPs are clearly not interested in ethics, but the slimeballs won’t look forward to re-entering the jobs market just as England regains her Sick Man of Europe title.

London
Lab 50%
Con 20%

Rest of South
Con 43%
Lab 37%

Midlands
Con 47%
Lab 37%

North
Lab 54%
Con 24%

Scotland
SNP 49%
Lab 29%
Con 15%

Wales
Lab 56%
PC 19%
Con 13%

(Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday; Sample Size: 1,550; Fieldwork: 13th - 14th April 2022)

10% poll lead in the Midlands is hardly devastating for him

34% off the pace in Scotland is, though.

Boris:
10 points off the pace in England.
30 point off the pace in Scotland.
40 points off the pace in Wales.
AWOL in Ireland.

Conservative MPs are out of their tiny minds.

What the feck is wrong with my fellow Midlanders? 47-37? Incredible given Johnson's last few weeks.

Guessing they like the culture war stuff against the woke and don't like Starmer. Maybe Street is helping the Tory brand in the West Midlands county?

Carnyx said:

TOPPING said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

EPG said:

HYUFD said:

EPG said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

EPG said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

Pagan2 said:

Carnyx said:

Pagan2 said:

IshmaelZ said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.

hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"

On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.

shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs

If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.

No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway

Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.

Yes it should, the whole point we have the established church is to stop Rome again being our main established Catholic church, as it is in Scotland for instance where there is only a choice between Roman Catholic Popery or Presbyterian evangelicals. The Scottish Episcopal Anglican church is just a small minority church now.

Not to mention the Parish system in England of the established church guarantees every Parishioner a church wedding or funeral regardless of how often they attend church

Trying to start the Gordon Riots again?

If I were an active Christian Scot I would be really angry at your description of Scottish religion as an Old Firm plus Partick Thistle. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that, starting with the Quakers.

And your latter point is utterly irrelevant to your political worldview. It's a moral and pastoral one. it doesn't mean that Mr J pp HMtQ has to be i/c the C of E. In any case, what't the point of a boss of the C of E who keeps slagging it off?

And there are numerous state and ex-state church arrangements across Europe that don't involve legislative power for bishops, and which aren't "Popery", to use HYUFD's sectarian slur.

Almost every other nation in Europe has the Roman Catholic church or the Orthodox Church as its largest church.

The main exceptions are nations like Norway and Denmark which also have the Protestant Lutheran church as their established church

Largest does not equate established.

It does, even in Germany and the Netherlands now, which used to be Protestant, they have the Roman Catholic church as their largest church as they have no established Protestant church like we, the Danes and Norwegians do

But it is pretty likely that the RCC has had the highest weekly attendance in England for a fair amount of the last 50 years, even if we don't have great stats on it. So what are you defending?

47% C of E, 10% Roman Catholic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_England

And almost none of the 47% go to church. I didn't know you were a fan of self-ID

What has that got to do with it? If the C of E was not the established church many would not even identify with it and the Roman Catholic church would again be our largest church.

Plus of course the end of the Parish system means no automatic right to church weddings or funerals for Parishioners for non church attendees

The last point is rather the point. I wouldn't rock up to the local Jedi temple and demand a burial if I had never been an active member.

Unless you think that being a member of the C of E is somehow, erm. 'English' in a way that other religions and non-religions are not.

As the established church the CofE has an obligation to marry anyone who wants to be married, subject to Canon Law.

What's wrong with the registry office? Strip religions of any marriage powers and keep it in the hands of the state. It's a legal contract (and always was in Scotland, not a religious sacrament).

Some people don't want a drab dull registry office, they want a wedding in a beautiful historic Medieval Parish Church of England church in a traditional English village, even if they are not that religious.

Only having an established church gives them that opportunity automatically as of right as Parishioners

MikeSmithson said:

ohnotnow said:

And on top of that insightful comment - Mike - I do hope you're well.

This COVID thing is a bit crap but I think I'm getting better. Wasn't helped today by our problems with Vanilla which thankfully has been sorted.

Pleased you (and Vanilla) are recovering.

StuartDickson said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

StuartDickson said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

StuartDickson said:

HYUFD said:

StuartDickson said:

- “… with his ratings and Tory voting numbers in apparent freefall…”

Five more Deltapoll-scale findings and I reckon he’s history. Tory MPs are clearly not interested in ethics, but the slimeballs won’t look forward to re-entering the jobs market just as England regains her Sick Man of Europe title.

London
Lab 50%
Con 20%

Rest of South
Con 43%
Lab 37%

Midlands
Con 47%
Lab 37%

North
Lab 54%
Con 24%

Scotland
SNP 49%
Lab 29%
Con 15%

Wales
Lab 56%
PC 19%
Con 13%

(Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday; Sample Size: 1,550; Fieldwork: 13th - 14th April 2022)

10% poll lead in the Midlands is hardly devastating for him

Now you’re moving the goalposts. Previously it was a 10 point deficit which was your Ditch Johnson benchmark. Now a 10 point Con lead in one region is sufficient to save him.

How bad does Con VI need to be before you advocate a fresh leader? Fifteen point deficit? A deficit in every single country and region?

Most polls do not have a Labour lead of 10%+ UK wide

The way the conservatives are going they will be a lot more than that behind Labour in the next few weeks

I do think that Boris is now terminally wounded and will be voted out by his mps by the early summer

It is over @HYUFD

But if he’s not, you’ll manage to find ten more excuses to change your mind. Even Douglas Ross doesn’t u-turn as often as you.

You are clearly not following my posts utterly condemning Boris and he has to go

When he goes I will vote conservative otherwise it will be lib dem or independent at GE24

My apologies. PB threads are impossibly wrong these days. It’s just I saw you making quite a few positive noises about the Conservatives and their leader in recent months.

Apology accepted

I want him gone as much as anyone

He is damaging the conservative party, the integrity of politicians, and the country's discourse

If his mps will not wield their power, than the electorate will do in 24

StuartDickson said:

rottenborough said:

StuartDickson said:

Farooq said:

HYUFD said:

StuartDickson said:

- “… with his ratings and Tory voting numbers in apparent freefall…”

Five more Deltapoll-scale findings and I reckon he’s history. Tory MPs are clearly not interested in ethics, but the slimeballs won’t look forward to re-entering the jobs market just as England regains her Sick Man of Europe title.

London
Lab 50%
Con 20%

Rest of South
Con 43%
Lab 37%

Midlands
Con 47%
Lab 37%

North
Lab 54%
Con 24%

Scotland
SNP 49%
Lab 29%
Con 15%

Wales
Lab 56%
PC 19%
Con 13%

(Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday; Sample Size: 1,550; Fieldwork: 13th - 14th April 2022)

10% poll lead in the Midlands is hardly devastating for him

34% off the pace in Scotland is, though.

Boris:
10 points off the pace in England.
30 point off the pace in Scotland.
40 points off the pace in Wales.
AWOL in Ireland.

Conservative MPs are out of their tiny minds.

What the feck is wrong with my fellow Midlanders? 47-37? Incredible given Johnson's last few weeks.

Brexit has, quite literally, turned some folk bonkers.

Someone needs to do some public polling of the Midlands and find out exactly why it's so out of kilter with the rest of the country. Unlike the North (where Labour are miles ahead), it seems the Brexit voters seem to be sticking with the Tories.

Peter_the_Punter said:

LostPassword said:

FrankBooth said:

Sorry to go on about the war but....

Has anyone seen or heard from an expert predicting that the Russians are likely to make a major breakthrough in the Donbass? I'm struck by the near universal scepticism from pretty much everyone I listen to or read. At the start of the war many were predicting Kiev would fall in days and the whole country within weeks. Now I can hardly find anyone who thinks they'll get very far. Quite a turnaround. There is a difference between unlikely and impossible and wars are unpredictable beasts. I hope the pendulum hasn't swung back too far the other way and the experts aren't herding in their views.

I can't think of anything specific, but I do remember that Alastair Meeks had a different impression, writing that:

"We keep being told by military strategists that this is a very different proposition from the battleground in northern Ukraine and we should not assume that just because the Russians failed in their assault on Kyiv that they will fail to make progress in the Donbas."

There had also been some nervous pointing towards the potential for encirclement of the JFO before the withdrawal from around Kyiv.

There is a lot of uncertainty, and as I think one of the analysts on twitter said, "war is a series of contingent events," but if Ukraine are to emerge victorious then it's hard to think of a possible opening eight weeks to the war that would be more likely to lead them in that direction.

There is certainly a case for believing that the Russians are now pursuing their best strategy, having exhausted all the other possibilities.

Personally I think they have handed the West an extraordinary opportunity to give them a massive arse-kicking, without making it too embarrassingly obvious that is what is going on. Of course this isn't much solace to the poor sods caught up in the war, but at least the Ukranian Nation is likely to emerge very much stronger in the long run. It will be a tough journey, but they are likely to get there in the end.

Yes but why is the west being so half-hearted? Maybe they don't want to make a big thing about the support they are providing to Ukraine - spare parts but not actual fighter jets????? - but I'm starting to wonder if many in Nato really want Ukraine to win.

Did the Russians have any difficulty in providing direct assistance to the North Vietnamese.

StuartDickson said:

rottenborough said:

StuartDickson said:

Farooq said:

HYUFD said:

StuartDickson said:

- “… with his ratings and Tory voting numbers in apparent freefall…”

Five more Deltapoll-scale findings and I reckon he’s history. Tory MPs are clearly not interested in ethics, but the slimeballs won’t look forward to re-entering the jobs market just as England regains her Sick Man of Europe title.

London
Lab 50%
Con 20%

Rest of South
Con 43%
Lab 37%

Midlands
Con 47%
Lab 37%

North
Lab 54%
Con 24%

Scotland
SNP 49%
Lab 29%
Con 15%

Wales
Lab 56%
PC 19%
Con 13%

(Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday; Sample Size: 1,550; Fieldwork: 13th - 14th April 2022)

10% poll lead in the Midlands is hardly devastating for him

34% off the pace in Scotland is, though.

Boris:
10 points off the pace in England.
30 point off the pace in Scotland.
40 points off the pace in Wales.
AWOL in Ireland.

Conservative MPs are out of their tiny minds.

What the feck is wrong with my fellow Midlanders? 47-37? Incredible given Johnson's last few weeks.

Brexit has, quite literally, turned some folk bonkers.

I can't see Starmer winning unless he can turn those Mids numbers around a bit more frankly.

StuartDickson said:

HYUFD said:

RandallFlagg said:

GIN1138 said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

StuartDickson said:

HYUFD said:

StuartDickson said:

- “… with his ratings and Tory voting numbers in apparent freefall…”

Five more Deltapoll-scale findings and I reckon he’s history. Tory MPs are clearly not interested in ethics, but the slimeballs won’t look forward to re-entering the jobs market just as England regains her Sick Man of Europe title.

London
Lab 50%
Con 20%

Rest of South
Con 43%
Lab 37%

Midlands
Con 47%
Lab 37%

North
Lab 54%
Con 24%

Scotland
SNP 49%
Lab 29%
Con 15%

Wales
Lab 56%
PC 19%
Con 13%

(Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday; Sample Size: 1,550; Fieldwork: 13th - 14th April 2022)

10% poll lead in the Midlands is hardly devastating for him

Now you’re moving the goalposts. Previously it was a 10 point deficit which was your Ditch Johnson benchmark. Now a 10 point Con lead in one region is sufficient to save him.

How bad does Con VI need to be before you advocate a fresh leader? Fifteen point deficit? A deficit in every single country and region?

Most polls do not have a Labour lead of 10%+ UK wide

The way the conservatives are going they will be a lot more than that behind Labour in the next few weeks

I do think that Boris is now terminally wounded and will be voted out by his mps by the early summer

It is over @HYUFD

I'm with @HYUFD on this.

Somehow or other Boris survives and goes on to win the autumn 2023 general election (though Con majority is halved) as Keith Starmer bores most of his potential voters into a slumber!

Labour wins in 2028 though!

Not if someone from the Socialist Campaign Group takes over following a defeat. Very unlikely, but we thought the same about Corbyn winning the leadership seven years ago.

At the moment it is more likely the Tories will be moving further right than Labour move left again if the polls are right and Starmer will be next PM.

If not then you may be right

The Tories are moving *further* to the right?! You‘ve already been hijacked by extremists, and now you are relaxed about them dragging the once great old party into truly despicable political territory. Shame on you.

Do you regard the Danish government as truly despicable?

TOPPING said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

TOPPING said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

EPG said:

HYUFD said:

EPG said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

EPG said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

Pagan2 said:

Carnyx said:

Pagan2 said:

IshmaelZ said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.

hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"

On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.

shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs

If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.

No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway

Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.

Yes it should, the whole point we have the established church is to stop Rome again being our main established Catholic church, as it is in Scotland for instance where there is only a choice between Roman Catholic Popery or Presbyterian evangelicals. The Scottish Episcopal Anglican church is just a small minority church now.

Not to mention the Parish system in England of the established church guarantees every Parishioner a church wedding or funeral regardless of how often they attend church

Trying to start the Gordon Riots again?

If I were an active Christian Scot I would be really angry at your description of Scottish religion as an Old Firm plus Partick Thistle. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that, starting with the Quakers.

And your latter point is utterly irrelevant to your political worldview. It's a moral and pastoral one. it doesn't mean that Mr J pp HMtQ has to be i/c the C of E. In any case, what't the point of a boss of the C of E who keeps slagging it off?

And there are numerous state and ex-state church arrangements across Europe that don't involve legislative power for bishops, and which aren't "Popery", to use HYUFD's sectarian slur.

Almost every other nation in Europe has the Roman Catholic church or the Orthodox Church as its largest church.

The main exceptions are nations like Norway and Denmark which also have the Protestant Lutheran church as their established church

Largest does not equate established.

It does, even in Germany and the Netherlands now, which used to be Protestant, they have the Roman Catholic church as their largest church as they have no established Protestant church like we, the Danes and Norwegians do

But it is pretty likely that the RCC has had the highest weekly attendance in England for a fair amount of the last 50 years, even if we don't have great stats on it. So what are you defending?

47% C of E, 10% Roman Catholic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_England

And almost none of the 47% go to church. I didn't know you were a fan of self-ID

What has that got to do with it? If the C of E was not the established church many would not even identify with it and the Roman Catholic church would again be our largest church.

Plus of course the end of the Parish system means no automatic right to church weddings or funerals for Parishioners for non church attendees

The last point is rather the point. I wouldn't rock up to the local Jedi temple and demand a burial if I had never been an active member.

Unless you think that being a member of the C of E is somehow, erm. 'English' in a way that other religions and non-religions are not.

As the established church the CofE has an obligation to marry anyone who wants to be married, subject to Canon Law.

What's wrong with the registry office? Strip religions of any marriage powers and keep it in the hands of the state. It's a legal contract (and always was in Scotland, not a religious sacrament).

Some people don't want a drab dull registry office, they want a wedding in a beautiful historic Medieval Parish Church of England church in a traditional English village, even if they are not that religious.

Only having an established church gives them that opportunity automatically as of right as Parishioners

Not 100% correct. They are still subject to Canon Law. So not automatically.

Engaged couples can be married in any Church of England church if they meet just one of these criteria, which include residence:

one of them was baptised or prepared for confirmation in the parish;
one of them has ever lived in the parish for six months or more;
one of them has at any time regularly attended public worship in the parish for six months or more;
one of their parents has lived in the parish for six months or more in their child's lifetime;
one of their parents has regularly attended public worship there for six months or more in their child's lifetime;
their parents or grandparents were married in the parish.

Virtually nobody ever objects to weddings under Marriage Banns now