Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

Odds of 2/1 on a Johnson 2022 exit look value – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,683
edited May 2022 in General
imageOdds of 2/1 on a Johnson 2022 exit look value – politicalbetting.com

Clearly Boris Johnson is going through a very tricky period and the big question remains whether he can survive certainly until the end of the year. Until late past week I’ve taken the view that he would make it but this lunchtime I placed a bet at about 2/1 on Betfair that he would be out this year. This is not a prediction but an assessment that the odds offered value.

Read the full story here

«1345

Comments

  • Options
    TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    This is like shouting "FIRE" in an empty room.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242
    A new thread? That's working?

    And they say the age of miracles has passed...
  • Options
    ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 2,934
    o_O
  • Options
    ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 2,934
    And on top of that insightful comment - Mike - I do hope you're well.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,067
    Macron going for the jugular on Russia, saying that Le Pen depends on Putin.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    FP,P,PT Niven presents the Merchant anecdote as Sam Goldwyn advising Edward G Robinson, and finishes the anecdote by saying Hur hur hur, I don't think even Goldwyn was that ignorant

    Spookily the only place I can find this on the internet is in the French translation of Niven. Dunno if this link will work

    https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/David_Niven_Mémoires/LmA7EAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=david+niven+shylock&pg=PT560&printsec=frontcover
  • Options
    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,263
    Toms said:

    This is like shouting "FIRE" in an empty room.

    There is a thread on which the only comment is from an esteemed poster writing "First!".
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
  • Options
    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Conservative MPs are out of their tiny minds.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,993
    WOAH!

    It's working.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775

    Macron going for the jugular on Russia, saying that Le Pen depends on Putin.

    He's right. She's bought and sold for Russian gold. She's utterly unsuitable for office.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,759
    Interesting to see No 10 and Mr J relentlessly attacking the C of E.

    He is, of course, de facto Head vice HMtQ.

    What's the point of an Established Church if the Conservative Party feel totally free to order it about, and ignore it?

    How long before the C of E sheds the Erastian heresy and moves to disestablishment?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,993
    geoffw said:

    This far in the debate we can see it'll be no game changer for Mme Le Pen.

    She doesn't seem very confident.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,109
    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    I have a vision of BJ being smeared top to toe in spermicidal jelly before leaving the house, like an overweight cross-channel swimmer.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,641
    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    If she was that strict what was she doing with condoms?
  • Options
    TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    The best laid schemes o’ Mice an’ Men Gang aft agley,
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,844
    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750
    rcs1000 said:

    geoffw said:

    This far in the debate we can see it'll be no game changer for Mme Le Pen.

    She doesn't seem very confident.
    Who wouldn't be whilst walking a political tightrope?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750
    rcs1000 said:

    WOAH!

    It's working.

    I never doubted you, Boss.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242
    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    If she was *that* Catholic I'm surprised she was willing to use condoms anyway...
  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,156
    The Debate won't do anything for turnout.
  • Options
    So BoJo has accused Starmer of being a liar? ROFL
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,759
    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
    On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750

    Congratulations to OGH, TSE, Robert et al for this glorious new thread

    It may have seemed dead, but on the third thread life rose again.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,405
    Toms said:

    This is like shouting "FIRE" in an empty room.

    FIRE! you say?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOll3v55Dmo&t=60s
  • Options
    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    edited April 2022
    - “… with his ratings and Tory voting numbers in apparent freefall…”

    Five more Deltapoll-scale findings and I reckon he’s history. Tory MPs are clearly not interested in ethics, but the slimeballs won’t look forward to re-entering the jobs market just as England regains her Sick Man of Europe title.

    London
    Lab 50%
    Con 20%

    Rest of South
    Con 43%
    Lab 37%

    Midlands
    Con 47%
    Lab 37%

    North
    Lab 54%
    Con 24%

    Scotland
    SNP 49%
    Lab 29%
    Con 15%

    Wales
    Lab 56%
    PC 19%
    Con 13%

    (Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday; Sample Size: 1,550; Fieldwork: 13th - 14th April 2022)
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,046
    Literally the most exciting thing that has happened since.......

    Yesterday?
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,759

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    I have a vision of BJ being smeared top to toe in spermicidal jelly before leaving the house, like an overweight cross-channel swimmer.
    Blubber is good for migrant swimmers. (a), added buoyancy, like whales, as the fat is of lower specific gravity than seawater; (b) some degree of thermal insulation; (c) reduces surface area/volume ratio, improving the heat loss problem. But as for looking like a character in a Woody Allen film, I wouldn't know.
  • Options
    RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,977
    Has the Conservative party lost its mind and learned absolutely zilch from the past few months?
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    "We have to wait for the police to finish their investigation"

    Why? He's already guilty. Is the difference between disgraced criminal and repeated disgraced criminal that profound for the purposes of not having a disgraced criminal in Number 10?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242
    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    I have a vision of BJ being smeared top to toe in spermicidal jelly before leaving the house, like an overweight cross-channel swimmer.
    Blubber is good for migrant swimmers. (a), added buoyancy, like whales, as the fat is of lower specific gravity than seawater; (b) some degree of thermal insulation; (c) reduces surface area/volume ratio, improving the heat loss problem. But as for looking like a character in a Woody Allen film, I wouldn't know.
    Well, Johnson has never been short of blubber, er, muscle.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,759

    - “… with his ratings and Tory voting numbers in apparent freefall…”

    Five more Deltapoll-scale findings and I reckon he’s history. Tory MPs are clearly not interested in ethics, but the slimeballs won’t look forward to re-entering the jobs market just as England regains her Sick Man of Europe title.

    London
    Lab 50%
    Con 20%

    Rest of South
    Con 43%
    Lab 37%

    Midlands
    Con 47%
    Lab 37%

    North
    Lab 54%
    Con 24%

    Scotland
    SNP 49%
    Lab 29%
    Con 15%

    Wales
    Lab 56%
    PC 19%
    Con 13%

    (Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday; Sample Size: 1,550; Fieldwork: 13th - 14th April 2022)

    Did you see Prof Tomkins was writing down the ScoTories today?

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/disown-johnson-or-face-terminal-decline-tory-tells-scottish-party-pgnhk298f
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,844
    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
    On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.
    shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005

    - “… with his ratings and Tory voting numbers in apparent freefall…”

    Five more Deltapoll-scale findings and I reckon he’s history. Tory MPs are clearly not interested in ethics, but the slimeballs won’t look forward to re-entering the jobs market just as England regains her Sick Man of Europe title.

    London
    Lab 50%
    Con 20%

    Rest of South
    Con 43%
    Lab 37%

    Midlands
    Con 47%
    Lab 37%

    North
    Lab 54%
    Con 24%

    Scotland
    SNP 49%
    Lab 29%
    Con 15%

    Wales
    Lab 56%
    PC 19%
    Con 13%

    (Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday; Sample Size: 1,550; Fieldwork: 13th - 14th April 2022)

    10% poll lead in the Midlands is hardly devastating for him
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,442
    Carnyx said:

    Interesting to see No 10 and Mr J relentlessly attacking the C of E.

    He is, of course, de facto Head vice HMtQ.

    What's the point of an Established Church if the Conservative Party feel totally free to order it about, and ignore it?

    How long before the C of E sheds the Erastian heresy and moves to disestablishment?

    Who is the most senior practising Anglican in the government?

    Come to think of it, who is the most senior minister who would put "C of E" in the box labelled "religion" on a form, without thinking about it much?
  • Options
    CiceroCicero Posts: 2,222
    Good work to deal with the likely cyber attack from Rapestan to PB. Similar attacks across the UK, but never mind.
    Meanwhile another Rapist staff officer is killed and things not going 100% for them in any front.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,993
    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
    Maybe she didn't anticipate ever getting married, so it wasn't premarital sex.
  • Options
    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Con Maj drifting again.

    NOM 1.92
    Con Maj 3.5
    Lab Maj 5
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005

    Macron going for the jugular on Russia, saying that Le Pen depends on Putin.

    Now onto pensions and retirement age
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,759
    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
    On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.
    shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs
    If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.
  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,008
    Le Pen is doing better than last time, when she was incapable on simply factual matters. This time instead her positions on Frexit and Russian bank loans are causing her problems, though a lot of the ground they've covered includes her weak points on Europe and Ukraine and less on the president's weakness on global inflation.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,580
    PB triumphs over sinister conspiracy to deny our collective wisdom to the wider (and weirder) world!
  • Options
    TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    Cicero said:

    Good work to deal with the likely cyber attack from Rapestan to PB. Similar attacks across the UK, but never mind.
    Meanwhile another Rapist staff officer is killed and things not going 100% for them in any front.

    For some reason your comment reminded me of "Ender's Game" by Orson Scott Card.
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,844
    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
    Maybe she didn't anticipate ever getting married, so it wasn't premarital sex.
    True but then again wouldn't that also preclude her being catholic. Was the phrase "Be fruitful and multiply over the face of the earth" omitted?
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,759

    Carnyx said:

    Interesting to see No 10 and Mr J relentlessly attacking the C of E.

    He is, of course, de facto Head vice HMtQ.

    What's the point of an Established Church if the Conservative Party feel totally free to order it about, and ignore it?

    How long before the C of E sheds the Erastian heresy and moves to disestablishment?

    Who is the most senior practising Anglican in the government?

    Come to think of it, who is the most senior minister who would put "C of E" in the box labelled "religion" on a form, without thinking about it much?
    I really am not sure, since Ms May moved on.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005
    edited April 2022
    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
    On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.
    shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs
    If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.
    No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

    The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway.

    Lord Sachs was in the Lords when alive and of course the former chief rabbi so your facts are not even correct
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
    On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.
    shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs
    It's because they're wrong and they can see it so very clearly in others but not themselves. Much easier to turn on one another about the proper way to decide the date of Easter or whether indulgences are canon than to confront the yawning chasm of self-contradiction in your Bronze-age superstition.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,003
    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    At uni, a female friend of mine had a boyfriend who 'adulterated' the condom they were using. This resulted in her going to the morning-after clinic, and she asked me to go with her for support. I sat near her as a nurse asked her a load of questions, and as the story came out, the nurse cast me daggers.

    It was only after five minutes or so that my friend realised, and told the nurse I wasn't the sh*t who was responsible ...
  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,008
    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
    On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.
    shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs
    If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.
    Yes, and indeed the Church of England as a whole has not disowned its Catholic identity, which has attracted anti-Roman dissidents from the Catholic Church in other countries towards the Anglican Communion.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,759
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
    On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.
    shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs
    If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.
    No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

    The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway
    Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

    The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242
    edited April 2022

    Carnyx said:

    Interesting to see No 10 and Mr J relentlessly attacking the C of E.

    He is, of course, de facto Head vice HMtQ.

    What's the point of an Established Church if the Conservative Party feel totally free to order it about, and ignore it?

    How long before the C of E sheds the Erastian heresy and moves to disestablishment?

    Who is the most senior practising Anglican in the government?

    Come to think of it, who is the most senior minister who would put "C of E" in the box labelled "religion" on a form, without thinking about it much?
    Don't know much about Liz Truss, beyond the fact that she's out of her depth as FS. I think Steven Barclay is Church of England although I could be wrong.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    HYUFD said:

    - “… with his ratings and Tory voting numbers in apparent freefall…”

    Five more Deltapoll-scale findings and I reckon he’s history. Tory MPs are clearly not interested in ethics, but the slimeballs won’t look forward to re-entering the jobs market just as England regains her Sick Man of Europe title.

    London
    Lab 50%
    Con 20%

    Rest of South
    Con 43%
    Lab 37%

    Midlands
    Con 47%
    Lab 37%

    North
    Lab 54%
    Con 24%

    Scotland
    SNP 49%
    Lab 29%
    Con 15%

    Wales
    Lab 56%
    PC 19%
    Con 13%

    (Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday; Sample Size: 1,550; Fieldwork: 13th - 14th April 2022)

    10% poll lead in the Midlands is hardly devastating for him
    34% off the pace in Scotland is, though.
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,844
    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
    On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.
    shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs
    It's because they're wrong and they can see it so very clearly in others but not themselves. Much easier to turn on one another about the proper way to decide the date of Easter or whether indulgences are canon than to confront the yawning chasm of self-contradiction in your Bronze-age superstition.
    Did you not get the impression somewhere there that the way I commented indicated a lack of christian belief?
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,759
    edited April 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
    On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.
    shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs
    If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.
    No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

    The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway.

    Lord Sachs was in the Lords when alive and of course the former chief rabbi so your facts are not even correct
    The good Lord S wasn't a Lord by virtue of being a rabbi. Any more than the odd Methodist preacher Lord was a Lord for that reason. You're moving the goalposts again.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Interesting to see No 10 and Mr J relentlessly attacking the C of E.

    He is, of course, de facto Head vice HMtQ.

    What's the point of an Established Church if the Conservative Party feel totally free to order it about, and ignore it?

    How long before the C of E sheds the Erastian heresy and moves to disestablishment?

    Who is the most senior practising Anglican in the government?

    Come to think of it, who is the most senior minister who would put "C of E" in the box labelled "religion" on a form, without thinking about it much?
    Don't know much about Liz Truss, beyond the fact that she's out of her depth as FS. I think Steven Barclay is Church of England although I could be wrong.
    She's probably out of her depth in a saucer of milk
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,580
    Cyclefree said:


    Apropos of nothing at all, it was 19 degrees today in my bit of the Lakes today. Sat outside on my terrace reading in the sunshine this morning listening to the birds and lambs bleating in the field next door. All is well in my world.

    Our village is hosting some Ukrainian families. I am helping with the visa applications. Not really my area of expertise but it is something I can do to help. I hope they will like it here.

    Somehow doubt much is beyond your talents. Maybe riding a unicycle backwards AND blindfolded?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005
    Macron looking a bit too smug as Le Pen challenges him on unemployment figures and the deficit
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005
    edited April 2022
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    - “… with his ratings and Tory voting numbers in apparent freefall…”

    Five more Deltapoll-scale findings and I reckon he’s history. Tory MPs are clearly not interested in ethics, but the slimeballs won’t look forward to re-entering the jobs market just as England regains her Sick Man of Europe title.

    London
    Lab 50%
    Con 20%

    Rest of South
    Con 43%
    Lab 37%

    Midlands
    Con 47%
    Lab 37%

    North
    Lab 54%
    Con 24%

    Scotland
    SNP 49%
    Lab 29%
    Con 15%

    Wales
    Lab 56%
    PC 19%
    Con 13%

    (Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday; Sample Size: 1,550; Fieldwork: 13th - 14th April 2022)

    10% poll lead in the Midlands is hardly devastating for him
    34% off the pace in Scotland is, though.
    The Tories can win a majority with only 1 seat in Scotland, as they did in 2015 when they also got 15% there
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,391

    Carnyx said:

    Interesting to see No 10 and Mr J relentlessly attacking the C of E.

    He is, of course, de facto Head vice HMtQ.

    What's the point of an Established Church if the Conservative Party feel totally free to order it about, and ignore it?

    How long before the C of E sheds the Erastian heresy and moves to disestablishment?

    Who is the most senior practising Anglican in the government?

    Come to think of it, who is the most senior minister who would put "C of E" in the box labelled "religion" on a form, without thinking about it much?
    Boris probably. :wink:
  • Options
    londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,194
    HYUFD said:

    Macron looking a bit too smug as Le Pen challenges him on unemployment figures and the deficit

    Glad the main site is back.

    Macron is useless but people won't vote Le Pen so Macron will be ok around 57 - 43.
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,046
    Sorry to go on about the war but....

    Has anyone seen or heard from an expert predicting that the Russians are likely to make a major breakthrough in the Donbass? I'm struck by the near universal scepticism from pretty much everyone I listen to or read. At the start of the war many were predicting Kiev would fall in days and the whole country within weeks. Now I can hardly find anyone who thinks they'll get very far. Quite a turnaround. There is a difference between unlikely and impossible and wars are unpredictable beasts. I hope the pendulum hasn't swung back too far the other way and the experts aren't herding in their views.
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,844

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    At uni, a female friend of mine had a boyfriend who 'adulterated' the condom they were using. This resulted in her going to the morning-after clinic, and she asked me to go with her for support. I sat near her as a nurse asked her a load of questions, and as the story came out, the nurse cast me daggers.

    It was only after five minutes or so that my friend realised, and told the nurse I wasn't the sh*t who was responsible ...
    I once had to take a girl to hospital for a broken wrist and made the mistake of admitting I had broken it by hitting her with a sword. That took rather a lot of explaining and a lot of dirty looks thrown my way till she finally managed to convince them that it was purely because she stumbled over a log and instead of parrying with her sword it was purely accidental she did so with her vambrace
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    edited April 2022
    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
    On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.
    shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs
    It's because they're wrong and they can see it so very clearly in others but not themselves. Much easier to turn on one another about the proper way to decide the date of Easter or whether indulgences are canon than to confront the yawning chasm of self-contradiction in your Bronze-age superstition.
    Did you not get the impression somewhere there that the way I commented indicated a lack of christian belief?
    The "your" in my post was -- I don't know the correct grammatical descriptor -- but that general "third person your". In the same way that you might say "your average Joe doesn't care about the balance of trade". It doesn't mean your, it's just an idiom.

    EDIT: here it is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generic_you
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005
    edited April 2022
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
    On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.
    shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs
    If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.
    No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

    The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway
    Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

    The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.
    Yes it should, the whole point we have the established church is to stop Rome again being our main established Catholic church, as it is in Scotland for instance where there is only a choice between Roman Catholic Popery or Presbyterian evangelicals. The Scottish Episcopal Anglican church is just a small minority church now.

    Not to mention the Parish system in England of the established church guarantees every Parishioner a church wedding or funeral regardless of how often they attend church
  • Options

    Carnyx said:

    Interesting to see No 10 and Mr J relentlessly attacking the C of E.

    He is, of course, de facto Head vice HMtQ.

    What's the point of an Established Church if the Conservative Party feel totally free to order it about, and ignore it?

    How long before the C of E sheds the Erastian heresy and moves to disestablishment?

    Who is the most senior practising Anglican in the government?

    Come to think of it, who is the most senior minister who would put "C of E" in the box labelled "religion" on a form, without thinking about it much?
    Boris probably. :wink:
    Yes, I think so, although he needs a bit more practice.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005

    HYUFD said:

    Macron looking a bit too smug as Le Pen challenges him on unemployment figures and the deficit

    Glad the main site is back.

    Macron is useless but people won't vote Le Pen so Macron will be ok around 57 - 43.
    Probably but will still likely be significantly closer than 2017
  • Options
    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Farooq said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Interesting to see No 10 and Mr J relentlessly attacking the C of E.

    He is, of course, de facto Head vice HMtQ.

    What's the point of an Established Church if the Conservative Party feel totally free to order it about, and ignore it?

    How long before the C of E sheds the Erastian heresy and moves to disestablishment?

    Who is the most senior practising Anglican in the government?

    Come to think of it, who is the most senior minister who would put "C of E" in the box labelled "religion" on a form, without thinking about it much?
    Don't know much about Liz Truss, beyond the fact that she's out of her depth as FS. I think Steven Barclay is Church of England although I could be wrong.
    She's probably out of her depth in a saucer of milk
    She’s currently FAV to be next Con leader. Speaks volumes.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,759
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
    On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.
    shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs
    If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.
    No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

    The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway
    Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

    The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.
    Yes it should, the whole point we have the established church is to stop Rome again being our main established Catholic church, as it is in Scotland for instance where there is only a choice between Roman Catholic Popery or Presbyterian evangelicals. The Scottish Episcopal Anglican church is just a small minority church now.

    Not to mention the Parish system in England of the established church guarantees every Parishioner a church wedding or funeral regardless of how often they attend church
    Trying to start the Gordon Riots again?

    If I were an active Christian Scot I would be really angry at your description of Scottish religion as an Old Firm plus Partick Thistle. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that, starting with the Quakers.

    And your latter point is utterly irrelevant to your political worldview. It's a moral and pastoral one. it doesn't mean that Mr J pp HMtQ has to be i/c the C of E. In any case, what't the point of a boss of the C of E who keeps slagging it off?

  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775

    Sorry to go on about the war but....

    Has anyone seen or heard from an expert predicting that the Russians are likely to make a major breakthrough in the Donbass? I'm struck by the near universal scepticism from pretty much everyone I listen to or read. At the start of the war many were predicting Kiev would fall in days and the whole country within weeks. Now I can hardly find anyone who thinks they'll get very far. Quite a turnaround. There is a difference between unlikely and impossible and wars are unpredictable beasts. I hope the pendulum hasn't swung back too far the other way and the experts aren't herding in their views.

    I think it's a mug's game trying to predict what's going to happen. There's probably nobody in the world that has the necessary information: emplacements, numbers, state of equipment, morale, political will, discipline. All of these things are subject to concealment and misinformation. You'd be lucky to find someone who had a good overview of all this on one side, let alone both.
  • Options
    pingping Posts: 3,731
    A new thread open for comments?

    Hallelujah.

    I thought Mike had got bored of us all and booted us off his site…
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,616
    Our postal votes arrived yesterday and were sent back today.

    I was able to persuade Wor Lass to vote tactically for Labour to help get rid of the Tory.
  • Options
    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Carnyx said:

    - “… with his ratings and Tory voting numbers in apparent freefall…”

    Five more Deltapoll-scale findings and I reckon he’s history. Tory MPs are clearly not interested in ethics, but the slimeballs won’t look forward to re-entering the jobs market just as England regains her Sick Man of Europe title.

    London
    Lab 50%
    Con 20%

    Rest of South
    Con 43%
    Lab 37%

    Midlands
    Con 47%
    Lab 37%

    North
    Lab 54%
    Con 24%

    Scotland
    SNP 49%
    Lab 29%
    Con 15%

    Wales
    Lab 56%
    PC 19%
    Con 13%

    (Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday; Sample Size: 1,550; Fieldwork: 13th - 14th April 2022)

    Did you see Prof Tomkins was writing down the ScoTories today?

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/disown-johnson-or-face-terminal-decline-tory-tells-scottish-party-pgnhk298f
    Yes. It was the word “terminal” which caught my eye. At Easter, one’s mind turn to resurrection. The only future for the centre-right now is post-independence. Until then the Tomkins terminal decline prophecy will hold.
  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,008
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
    On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.
    shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs
    If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.
    No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

    The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway
    Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

    The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.
    Yes it should, the whole point we have the established church is to stop Rome again being our main established Catholic church, as it is in Scotland for instance where there is only a choice between Roman Catholic Popery or Presbyterian evangelicals. The Scottish Episcopal Anglican church is just a small minority church now.

    Not to mention the Parish system in England of the established church guarantees every Parishioner a church wedding or funeral regardless of how often they attend church
    Trying to start the Gordon Riots again?

    If I were an active Christian Scot I would be really angry at your description of Scottish religion as an Old Firm plus Partick Thistle. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that, starting with the Quakers.

    And your latter point is utterly irrelevant to your political worldview. It's a moral and pastoral one. it doesn't mean that Mr J pp HMtQ has to be i/c the C of E. In any case, what't the point of a boss of the C of E who keeps slagging it off?

    And there are numerous state and ex-state church arrangements across Europe that don't involve legislative power for bishops, and which aren't "Popery", to use HYUFD's sectarian slur.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,580
    Re: condoms & Catholics, in the USA the Roman Catholic Church fought tooth and nail against condoms, and later the pill. For example, lobbying for state laws (such as in Connecticut) banning their sale.

    Yet IIRC by 1970s approx. 90% of Catholic women in USA capable of childbearing were using the pill or condoms, and only small minority the church-approved rhythm method. Most did NOT tell their priest about it, or make a big deal about it socially or politically.

    But they did it anyway. Most remaining committed Catholics - in belief that, on this issue, they are NOT the ones out of step with true religion.

    Rather it's popes & priests who err - and despite what some of THEM think, they are NOT the Church.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005
    edited April 2022
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
    On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.
    shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs
    If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.
    No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

    The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway
    Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

    The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.
    Yes it should, the whole point we have the established church is to stop Rome again being our main established Catholic church, as it is in Scotland for instance where there is only a choice between Roman Catholic Popery or Presbyterian evangelicals. The Scottish Episcopal Anglican church is just a small minority church now.

    Not to mention the Parish system in England of the established church guarantees every Parishioner a church wedding or funeral regardless of how often they attend church
    Trying to start the Gordon Riots again?

    If I were an active Christian Scot I would be really angry at your description of Scottish religion as an Old Firm plus Partick Thistle. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that, starting with the Quakers.

    And your latter point is utterly irrelevant to your political worldview. It's a moral and pastoral one. it doesn't mean that Mr J pp HMtQ has to be i/c the C of E. In any case, what't the point of a boss of the C of E who keeps slagging it off?

    The Quakers are also a tiny minority in Scotland. Scottish religion has been and still is dominated by Roman Catholicism a la Celtic and Church of Scotland evangelical Presbyterianism a la Rangers or even more hardline evangelism in the Free Church of Scotland.

    The reason England still has the Church of England as its largest church, not the Roman Catholic church or hardcore evangelicals, is the Church of England is the established church.

    Mr Johnson is not Supreme Governor of the C of E, the Queen is, Mr Johnson is not even Anglican but Roman Catholic
  • Options
    Cannot believe the Tories are whipping against investigating Boris Johnson.

    Every MP that votes for that disgrace are going to get beaten like morning wood at the next election.
  • Options
    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    HYUFD said:

    - “… with his ratings and Tory voting numbers in apparent freefall…”

    Five more Deltapoll-scale findings and I reckon he’s history. Tory MPs are clearly not interested in ethics, but the slimeballs won’t look forward to re-entering the jobs market just as England regains her Sick Man of Europe title.

    London
    Lab 50%
    Con 20%

    Rest of South
    Con 43%
    Lab 37%

    Midlands
    Con 47%
    Lab 37%

    North
    Lab 54%
    Con 24%

    Scotland
    SNP 49%
    Lab 29%
    Con 15%

    Wales
    Lab 56%
    PC 19%
    Con 13%

    (Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday; Sample Size: 1,550; Fieldwork: 13th - 14th April 2022)

    10% poll lead in the Midlands is hardly devastating for him
    Now you’re moving the goalposts. Previously it was a 10 point deficit which was your Ditch Johnson benchmark. Now a 10 point Con lead in one region is sufficient to save him.

    How bad does Con VI need to be before you advocate a fresh leader? Fifteen point deficit? A deficit in every single country and region?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005

    HYUFD said:

    - “… with his ratings and Tory voting numbers in apparent freefall…”

    Five more Deltapoll-scale findings and I reckon he’s history. Tory MPs are clearly not interested in ethics, but the slimeballs won’t look forward to re-entering the jobs market just as England regains her Sick Man of Europe title.

    London
    Lab 50%
    Con 20%

    Rest of South
    Con 43%
    Lab 37%

    Midlands
    Con 47%
    Lab 37%

    North
    Lab 54%
    Con 24%

    Scotland
    SNP 49%
    Lab 29%
    Con 15%

    Wales
    Lab 56%
    PC 19%
    Con 13%

    (Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday; Sample Size: 1,550; Fieldwork: 13th - 14th April 2022)

    10% poll lead in the Midlands is hardly devastating for him
    Now you’re moving the goalposts. Previously it was a 10 point deficit which was your Ditch Johnson benchmark. Now a 10 point Con lead in one region is sufficient to save him.

    How bad does Con VI need to be before you advocate a fresh leader? Fifteen point deficit? A deficit in every single country and region?
    Most polls do not have a Labour lead of 10%+ UK wide
  • Options
    RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,977

    Cannot believe the Tories are whipping against investigating Boris Johnson.

    Every MP that votes for that disgrace are going to get beaten like morning wood at the next election.

    I doubt the Tories are even looking long term now. Literally everything is short termist rubbish that’ll come back to bite them
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005
    edited April 2022

    Cannot believe the Tories are whipping against investigating Boris Johnson.

    Every MP that votes for that disgrace are going to get beaten like morning wood at the next election.

    Labour MPs did not vote to investigate Blair over WMD misleading in Parliament
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,759
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
    On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.
    shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs
    If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.
    No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

    The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway
    Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

    The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.
    Yes it should, the whole point we have the established church is to stop Rome again being our main established Catholic church, as it is in Scotland for instance where there is only a choice between Roman Catholic Popery or Presbyterian evangelicals. The Scottish Episcopal Anglican church is just a small minority church now.

    Not to mention the Parish system in England of the established church guarantees every Parishioner a church wedding or funeral regardless of how often they attend church
    Trying to start the Gordon Riots again?

    If I were an active Christian Scot I would be really angry at your description of Scottish religion as an Old Firm plus Partick Thistle. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that, starting with the Quakers.

    And your latter point is utterly irrelevant to your political worldview. It's a moral and pastoral one. it doesn't mean that Mr J pp HMtQ has to be i/c the C of E. In any case, what't the point of a boss of the C of E who keeps slagging it off?

    The Quakers are also a tiny minority in Scotland. Scottish religion has been and still is dominated by Roman Catholicism a la Celtic and Church of Scotland evangelical Presbyterianism a la Rangers or even more hardline evangelism in the Free Church of Scotland.

    The reason England still has the Church of England as its largest church, not the Roman Catholic church or hardcore evangelicals, is the Church of England is the established church.

    Mr Johnson is not Supreme Governor of the C of E, the Queen is, Mr Johnson is not even Anglican but Roman Catholic
    But the C of E is absolutely full of romanists and hardline evangelicals anyway. So it's useless for the reason you clam. It's just a political construct to provide an ideological arm for the English state which is long out of date. The Scottish equivalent would be sacrificing a virgin on the summit of Arthur's Seat every Beltane dawn.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,616

    Carnyx said:

    Interesting to see No 10 and Mr J relentlessly attacking the C of E.

    He is, of course, de facto Head vice HMtQ.

    What's the point of an Established Church if the Conservative Party feel totally free to order it about, and ignore it?

    How long before the C of E sheds the Erastian heresy and moves to disestablishment?

    Who is the most senior practising Anglican in the government?

    Come to think of it, who is the most senior minister who would put "C of E" in the box labelled "religion" on a form, without thinking about it much?

    Carnyx said:

    Interesting to see No 10 and Mr J relentlessly attacking the C of E.

    He is, of course, de facto Head vice HMtQ.

    What's the point of an Established Church if the Conservative Party feel totally free to order it about, and ignore it?

    How long before the C of E sheds the Erastian heresy and moves to disestablishment?

    Who is the most senior practising Anglican in the government?

    Come to think of it, who is the most senior minister who would put "C of E" in the box labelled "religion" on a form, without thinking about it much?
    Sunak, if he didn't read the question.
  • Options
    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    - “… with his ratings and Tory voting numbers in apparent freefall…”

    Five more Deltapoll-scale findings and I reckon he’s history. Tory MPs are clearly not interested in ethics, but the slimeballs won’t look forward to re-entering the jobs market just as England regains her Sick Man of Europe title.

    London
    Lab 50%
    Con 20%

    Rest of South
    Con 43%
    Lab 37%

    Midlands
    Con 47%
    Lab 37%

    North
    Lab 54%
    Con 24%

    Scotland
    SNP 49%
    Lab 29%
    Con 15%

    Wales
    Lab 56%
    PC 19%
    Con 13%

    (Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday; Sample Size: 1,550; Fieldwork: 13th - 14th April 2022)

    10% poll lead in the Midlands is hardly devastating for him
    34% off the pace in Scotland is, though.
    The Tories can win a majority with only 1 seat in Scotland, as they did in 2015 when they also got 15% there
    That one sentence explains why the Union is broken.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,263

    Sorry to go on about the war but....

    Has anyone seen or heard from an expert predicting that the Russians are likely to make a major breakthrough in the Donbass? I'm struck by the near universal scepticism from pretty much everyone I listen to or read. At the start of the war many were predicting Kiev would fall in days and the whole country within weeks. Now I can hardly find anyone who thinks they'll get very far. Quite a turnaround. There is a difference between unlikely and impossible and wars are unpredictable beasts. I hope the pendulum hasn't swung back too far the other way and the experts aren't herding in their views.

    I can't think of anything specific, but I do remember that Alastair Meeks had a different impression, writing that:

    "We keep being told by military strategists that this is a very different proposition from the battleground in northern Ukraine and we should not assume that just because the Russians failed in their assault on Kyiv that they will fail to make progress in the Donbas."

    There had also been some nervous pointing towards the potential for encirclement of the JFO before the withdrawal from around Kyiv.

    There is a lot of uncertainty, and as I think one of the analysts on twitter said, "war is a series of contingent events," but if Ukraine are to emerge victorious then it's hard to think of a possible opening eight weeks to the war that would be more likely to lead them in that direction.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,953

    Cannot believe the Tories are whipping against investigating Boris Johnson.

    Every MP that votes for that disgrace are going to get beaten like morning wood at the next election.

    But BoZo gets to be PM for one more day
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,391

    Sorry to go on about the war but....

    Has anyone seen or heard from an expert predicting that the Russians are likely to make a major breakthrough in the Donbass? I'm struck by the near universal scepticism from pretty much everyone I listen to or read. At the start of the war many were predicting Kiev would fall in days and the whole country within weeks. Now I can hardly find anyone who thinks they'll get very far. Quite a turnaround. There is a difference between unlikely and impossible and wars are unpredictable beasts. I hope the pendulum hasn't swung back too far the other way and the experts aren't herding in their views.

    Several, I think. Trouble is anyone suggesting this is liable to be accused of Putinism.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005
    EPG said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
    On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.
    shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs
    If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.
    No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

    The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway
    Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

    The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.
    Yes it should, the whole point we have the established church is to stop Rome again being our main established Catholic church, as it is in Scotland for instance where there is only a choice between Roman Catholic Popery or Presbyterian evangelicals. The Scottish Episcopal Anglican church is just a small minority church now.

    Not to mention the Parish system in England of the established church guarantees every Parishioner a church wedding or funeral regardless of how often they attend church
    Trying to start the Gordon Riots again?

    If I were an active Christian Scot I would be really angry at your description of Scottish religion as an Old Firm plus Partick Thistle. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that, starting with the Quakers.

    And your latter point is utterly irrelevant to your political worldview. It's a moral and pastoral one. it doesn't mean that Mr J pp HMtQ has to be i/c the C of E. In any case, what't the point of a boss of the C of E who keeps slagging it off?

    And there are numerous state and ex-state church arrangements across Europe that don't involve legislative power for bishops, and which aren't "Popery", to use HYUFD's sectarian slur.
    Almost every other nation in Europe has the Roman Catholic church or the Orthodox Church as its largest church.

    The main exceptions are nations like Norway and Denmark which also have the Protestant Lutheran church as their established church
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    HYUFD said:

    Cannot believe the Tories are whipping against investigating Boris Johnson.

    Every MP that votes for that disgrace are going to get beaten like morning wood at the next election.

    Labour MPs did not vote to investigate Blair over WMD misleading in Parliament
    Difference is, Blair was never convicted of anything. Boris is guilty
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    Cannot believe the Tories are whipping against investigating Boris Johnson.

    Every MP that votes for that disgrace are going to get beaten like morning wood at the next election.

    Labour MPs did not vote to investigate Blair over WMD misleading in Parliament
    The Conservatives should have higher standards than 'as bad as Blair.'
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,759
    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
    On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.
    shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs
    If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.
    No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

    The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway
    Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

    The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.
    Yes it should, the whole point we have the established church is to stop Rome again being our main established Catholic church, as it is in Scotland for instance where there is only a choice between Roman Catholic Popery or Presbyterian evangelicals. The Scottish Episcopal Anglican church is just a small minority church now.

    Not to mention the Parish system in England of the established church guarantees every Parishioner a church wedding or funeral regardless of how often they attend church
    Trying to start the Gordon Riots again?

    If I were an active Christian Scot I would be really angry at your description of Scottish religion as an Old Firm plus Partick Thistle. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that, starting with the Quakers.

    And your latter point is utterly irrelevant to your political worldview. It's a moral and pastoral one. it doesn't mean that Mr J pp HMtQ has to be i/c the C of E. In any case, what't the point of a boss of the C of E who keeps slagging it off?

    And there are numerous state and ex-state church arrangements across Europe that don't involve legislative power for bishops, and which aren't "Popery", to use HYUFD's sectarian slur.
    Almost every other nation in Europe has the Roman Catholic church or the Orthodox Church as its largest church.

    The main exceptions are nations like Norway and Denmark which also have the Protestant Lutheran church as their established church
    Largest does not equate established.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    - “… with his ratings and Tory voting numbers in apparent freefall…”

    Five more Deltapoll-scale findings and I reckon he’s history. Tory MPs are clearly not interested in ethics, but the slimeballs won’t look forward to re-entering the jobs market just as England regains her Sick Man of Europe title.

    London
    Lab 50%
    Con 20%

    Rest of South
    Con 43%
    Lab 37%

    Midlands
    Con 47%
    Lab 37%

    North
    Lab 54%
    Con 24%

    Scotland
    SNP 49%
    Lab 29%
    Con 15%

    Wales
    Lab 56%
    PC 19%
    Con 13%

    (Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday; Sample Size: 1,550; Fieldwork: 13th - 14th April 2022)

    10% poll lead in the Midlands is hardly devastating for him
    34% off the pace in Scotland is, though.
    The Tories can win a majority with only 1 seat in Scotland, as they did in 2015 when they also got 15% there
    That one sentence explains why the Union is broken.
    No it isn't. Scotland voted 55% to keep the Union in 2014 despite a Tory PM with only 1 Scottish seat and it has Holyrood to run most of its domestic policies now anyway
  • Options
    Scott_xP said:

    Cannot believe the Tories are whipping against investigating Boris Johnson.

    Every MP that votes for that disgrace are going to get beaten like morning wood at the next election.

    But BoZo gets to be PM for one more day
    What is the point of an investigation when everyone has already made up their minds? It is just a way for the opposition to get the story to come back at a later date.
  • Options
    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    - “… with his ratings and Tory voting numbers in apparent freefall…”

    Five more Deltapoll-scale findings and I reckon he’s history. Tory MPs are clearly not interested in ethics, but the slimeballs won’t look forward to re-entering the jobs market just as England regains her Sick Man of Europe title.

    London
    Lab 50%
    Con 20%

    Rest of South
    Con 43%
    Lab 37%

    Midlands
    Con 47%
    Lab 37%

    North
    Lab 54%
    Con 24%

    Scotland
    SNP 49%
    Lab 29%
    Con 15%

    Wales
    Lab 56%
    PC 19%
    Con 13%

    (Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday; Sample Size: 1,550; Fieldwork: 13th - 14th April 2022)

    10% poll lead in the Midlands is hardly devastating for him
    Now you’re moving the goalposts. Previously it was a 10 point deficit which was your Ditch Johnson benchmark. Now a 10 point Con lead in one region is sufficient to save him.

    How bad does Con VI need to be before you advocate a fresh leader? Fifteen point deficit? A deficit in every single country and region?
    Most polls do not have a Labour lead of 10%+ UK wide
    Most polls are not UK-wide.

    So, a range of different pollsters all showing a 10 point plus Con deficit GB-/UK-wide will suffice? I take it your daft 10 point Con lead in the Midlands observation was your attempt at squirrel spotting.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,759
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    - “… with his ratings and Tory voting numbers in apparent freefall…”

    Five more Deltapoll-scale findings and I reckon he’s history. Tory MPs are clearly not interested in ethics, but the slimeballs won’t look forward to re-entering the jobs market just as England regains her Sick Man of Europe title.

    London
    Lab 50%
    Con 20%

    Rest of South
    Con 43%
    Lab 37%

    Midlands
    Con 47%
    Lab 37%

    North
    Lab 54%
    Con 24%

    Scotland
    SNP 49%
    Lab 29%
    Con 15%

    Wales
    Lab 56%
    PC 19%
    Con 13%

    (Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday; Sample Size: 1,550; Fieldwork: 13th - 14th April 2022)

    10% poll lead in the Midlands is hardly devastating for him
    34% off the pace in Scotland is, though.
    The Tories can win a majority with only 1 seat in Scotland, as they did in 2015 when they also got 15% there
    That one sentence explains why the Union is broken.
    No it isn't. Scotland voted 55% to keep the Union in 2014 despite a Tory PM with only 1 Scottish seat and it has Holyrood to run most of its domestic policies now anyway
    "most of its domestic policies" my sharny arse.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
    On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.
    shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs
    If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.
    No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

    The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway
    Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

    The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.
    Yes it should, the whole point we have the established church is to stop Rome again being our main established Catholic church, as it is in Scotland for instance where there is only a choice between Roman Catholic Popery or Presbyterian evangelicals. The Scottish Episcopal Anglican church is just a small minority church now.

    Not to mention the Parish system in England of the established church guarantees every Parishioner a church wedding or funeral regardless of how often they attend church
    Trying to start the Gordon Riots again?

    If I were an active Christian Scot I would be really angry at your description of Scottish religion as an Old Firm plus Partick Thistle. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that, starting with the Quakers.

    And your latter point is utterly irrelevant to your political worldview. It's a moral and pastoral one. it doesn't mean that Mr J pp HMtQ has to be i/c the C of E. In any case, what't the point of a boss of the C of E who keeps slagging it off?

    The Quakers are also a tiny minority in Scotland. Scottish religion has been and still is dominated by Roman Catholicism a la Celtic and Church of Scotland evangelical Presbyterianism a la Rangers or even more hardline evangelism in the Free Church of Scotland.

    The reason England still has the Church of England as its largest church, not the Roman Catholic church or hardcore evangelicals, is the Church of England is the established church.

    Mr Johnson is not Supreme Governor of the C of E, the Queen is, Mr Johnson is not even Anglican but Roman Catholic
    But the C of E is absolutely full of romanists and hardline evangelicals anyway. So it's useless for the reason you clam. It's just a political construct to provide an ideological arm for the English state which is long out of date. The Scottish equivalent would be sacrificing a virgin on the summit of Arthur's Seat every Beltane dawn.
    No it isn't. The largest group in the Church of England is liberals with a smaller group of conservative evangelicals and a tiny subset of Anglo Catholics still (many of whom went to Rome already over women priests).

  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,008
    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
    On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.
    shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs
    If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.
    No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

    The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway
    Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

    The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.
    Yes it should, the whole point we have the established church is to stop Rome again being our main established Catholic church, as it is in Scotland for instance where there is only a choice between Roman Catholic Popery or Presbyterian evangelicals. The Scottish Episcopal Anglican church is just a small minority church now.

    Not to mention the Parish system in England of the established church guarantees every Parishioner a church wedding or funeral regardless of how often they attend church
    Trying to start the Gordon Riots again?

    If I were an active Christian Scot I would be really angry at your description of Scottish religion as an Old Firm plus Partick Thistle. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that, starting with the Quakers.

    And your latter point is utterly irrelevant to your political worldview. It's a moral and pastoral one. it doesn't mean that Mr J pp HMtQ has to be i/c the C of E. In any case, what't the point of a boss of the C of E who keeps slagging it off?

    And there are numerous state and ex-state church arrangements across Europe that don't involve legislative power for bishops, and which aren't "Popery", to use HYUFD's sectarian slur.
    Almost every other nation in Europe has the Roman Catholic church or the Orthodox Church as its largest church.

    The main exceptions are nations like Norway and Denmark which also have the Protestant Lutheran church as their established church
    Irrelevant to your claim that England would "go Catholic" if it switched to a Swedish or Dutch system. Your rhetoric is stuck in the era of Popery paranoia and witch hunts.
This discussion has been closed.