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Odds of 2/1 on a Johnson 2022 exit look value – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,644

    HYUFD said:

    Cannot believe the Tories are whipping against investigating Boris Johnson.

    Every MP that votes for that disgrace are going to get beaten like morning wood at the next election.

    Labour MPs did not vote to investigate Blair over WMD misleading in Parliament
    The Conservatives should have higher standards than 'as bad as Blair.'
    Just catching up but it looks like HMG have thrown in the towel on this one:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/20/boris-johnson-abandons-efforts-block-inquiry-on-misleading-commons-over-partygate
  • Sorry to go on about the war but....

    Has anyone seen or heard from an expert predicting that the Russians are likely to make a major breakthrough in the Donbass? I'm struck by the near universal scepticism from pretty much everyone I listen to or read. At the start of the war many were predicting Kiev would fall in days and the whole country within weeks. Now I can hardly find anyone who thinks they'll get very far. Quite a turnaround. There is a difference between unlikely and impossible and wars are unpredictable beasts. I hope the pendulum hasn't swung back too far the other way and the experts aren't herding in their views.

    I can't think of anything specific, but I do remember that Alastair Meeks had a different impression, writing that:

    "We keep being told by military strategists that this is a very different proposition from the battleground in northern Ukraine and we should not assume that just because the Russians failed in their assault on Kyiv that they will fail to make progress in the Donbas."

    There had also been some nervous pointing towards the potential for encirclement of the JFO before the withdrawal from around Kyiv.

    There is a lot of uncertainty, and as I think one of the analysts on twitter said, "war is a series of contingent events," but if Ukraine are to emerge victorious then it's hard to think of a possible opening eight weeks to the war that would be more likely to lead them in that direction.
    There is certainly a case for believing that the Russians are now pursuing their best strategy, having exhausted all the other possibilities.

    Personally I think they have handed the West an extraordinary opportunity to give them a massive arse-kicking, without making it too embarrassingly obvious that is what is going on. Of course this isn't much solace to the poor sods caught up in the war, but at least the Ukranian Nation is likely to emerge very much stronger in the long run. It will be a tough journey, but they are likely to get there in the end.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    - “… with his ratings and Tory voting numbers in apparent freefall…”

    Five more Deltapoll-scale findings and I reckon he’s history. Tory MPs are clearly not interested in ethics, but the slimeballs won’t look forward to re-entering the jobs market just as England regains her Sick Man of Europe title.

    London
    Lab 50%
    Con 20%

    Rest of South
    Con 43%
    Lab 37%

    Midlands
    Con 47%
    Lab 37%

    North
    Lab 54%
    Con 24%

    Scotland
    SNP 49%
    Lab 29%
    Con 15%

    Wales
    Lab 56%
    PC 19%
    Con 13%

    (Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday; Sample Size: 1,550; Fieldwork: 13th - 14th April 2022)

    10% poll lead in the Midlands is hardly devastating for him
    Now you’re moving the goalposts. Previously it was a 10 point deficit which was your Ditch Johnson benchmark. Now a 10 point Con lead in one region is sufficient to save him.

    How bad does Con VI need to be before you advocate a fresh leader? Fifteen point deficit? A deficit in every single country and region?
    Most polls do not have a Labour lead of 10%+ UK wide
    The way the conservatives are going they will be a lot more than that behind Labour in the next few weeks

    I do think that Boris is now terminally wounded and will be voted out by his mps by the early summer

    It is over @HYUFD
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,682
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
    On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.
    shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs
    If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.
    No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

    The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway
    Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

    The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.
    Yes it should, the whole point we have the established church is to stop Rome again being our main established Catholic church, as it is in Scotland for instance where there is only a choice between Roman Catholic Popery or Presbyterian evangelicals. The Scottish Episcopal Anglican church is just a small minority church now.

    Not to mention the Parish system in England of the established church guarantees every Parishioner a church wedding or funeral regardless of how often they attend church
    Trying to start the Gordon Riots again?

    If I were an active Christian Scot I would be really angry at your description of Scottish religion as an Old Firm plus Partick Thistle. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that, starting with the Quakers.

    And your latter point is utterly irrelevant to your political worldview. It's a moral and pastoral one. it doesn't mean that Mr J pp HMtQ has to be i/c the C of E. In any case, what't the point of a boss of the C of E who keeps slagging it off?

    And there are numerous state and ex-state church arrangements across Europe that don't involve legislative power for bishops, and which aren't "Popery", to use HYUFD's sectarian slur.
    Almost every other nation in Europe has the Roman Catholic church or the Orthodox Church as its largest church.

    The main exceptions are nations like Norway and Denmark which also have the Protestant Lutheran church as their established church
    Largest does not equate established.
    It does, even in Germany and the Netherlands now, which used to be Protestant, they have the Roman Catholic church as their largest church as they have no established Protestant church like we, the Danes and Norwegians do
    But it's not established, is it? You're talking more mince than a catering pack of Quorn from Farmfoods.
    Yes it is, the Norwegian and Danish Lutheran churches are established and the largest churches there whereas in almost all the rest of Europe the Roman Catholic church is the largest church or else the Orthodox church
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,723
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Interesting to see No 10 and Mr J relentlessly attacking the C of E.

    He is, of course, de facto Head vice HMtQ.

    What's the point of an Established Church if the Conservative Party feel totally free to order it about, and ignore it?

    How long before the C of E sheds the Erastian heresy and moves to disestablishment?

    Who is the most senior practising Anglican in the government?

    Come to think of it, who is the most senior minister who would put "C of E" in the box labelled "religion" on a form, without thinking about it much?
    Raab is Church of England, albeit he is half Jewish too
    So that's only 50% probability. Or maybe 52% or 48%. You need to do better than that.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,650
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
    On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.
    shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs
    If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.
    No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

    The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway
    Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

    The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.
    Yes it should, the whole point we have the established church is to stop Rome again being our main established Catholic church, as it is in Scotland for instance where there is only a choice between Roman Catholic Popery or Presbyterian evangelicals. The Scottish Episcopal Anglican church is just a small minority church now.

    Not to mention the Parish system in England of the established church guarantees every Parishioner a church wedding or funeral regardless of how often they attend church
    Trying to start the Gordon Riots again?

    If I were an active Christian Scot I would be really angry at your description of Scottish religion as an Old Firm plus Partick Thistle. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that, starting with the Quakers.

    And your latter point is utterly irrelevant to your political worldview. It's a moral and pastoral one. it doesn't mean that Mr J pp HMtQ has to be i/c the C of E. In any case, what't the point of a boss of the C of E who keeps slagging it off?

    And there are numerous state and ex-state church arrangements across Europe that don't involve legislative power for bishops, and which aren't "Popery", to use HYUFD's sectarian slur.
    Almost every other nation in Europe has the Roman Catholic church or the Orthodox Church as its largest church.

    The main exceptions are nations like Norway and Denmark which also have the Protestant Lutheran church as their established church
    Largest does not equate established.
    It does, even in Germany and the Netherlands now, which used to be Protestant, they have the Roman Catholic church as their largest church as they have no established Protestant church like we, the Danes and Norwegians do
    But it is pretty likely that the RCC has had the highest weekly attendance in England for a fair amount of the last 50 years, even if we don't have great stats on it. So what are you defending?
  • EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
    On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.
    shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs
    If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.
    No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

    The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway
    Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

    The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.
    Yes it should, the whole point we have the established church is to stop Rome again being our main established Catholic church, as it is in Scotland for instance where there is only a choice between Roman Catholic Popery or Presbyterian evangelicals. The Scottish Episcopal Anglican church is just a small minority church now.

    Not to mention the Parish system in England of the established church guarantees every Parishioner a church wedding or funeral regardless of how often they attend church
    Trying to start the Gordon Riots again?

    If I were an active Christian Scot I would be really angry at your description of Scottish religion as an Old Firm plus Partick Thistle. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that, starting with the Quakers.

    And your latter point is utterly irrelevant to your political worldview. It's a moral and pastoral one. it doesn't mean that Mr J pp HMtQ has to be i/c the C of E. In any case, what't the point of a boss of the C of E who keeps slagging it off?

    And there are numerous state and ex-state church arrangements across Europe that don't involve legislative power for bishops, and which aren't "Popery", to use HYUFD's sectarian slur.
    Almost every other nation in Europe has the Roman Catholic church or the Orthodox Church as its largest church.

    The main exceptions are nations like Norway and Denmark which also have the Protestant Lutheran church as their established church
    Irrelevant to your claim that England would "go Catholic" if it switched to a Swedish or Dutch system. Your rhetoric is stuck in the era of Popery paranoia and witch hunts.
    Wait until he finds out Boris Johnson is a Papist.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994

    Sorry to go on about the war but....

    Has anyone seen or heard from an expert predicting that the Russians are likely to make a major breakthrough in the Donbass? I'm struck by the near universal scepticism from pretty much everyone I listen to or read. At the start of the war many were predicting Kiev would fall in days and the whole country within weeks. Now I can hardly find anyone who thinks they'll get very far. Quite a turnaround. There is a difference between unlikely and impossible and wars are unpredictable beasts. I hope the pendulum hasn't swung back too far the other way and the experts aren't herding in their views.

    I'm sure some have said that Russia will, with enough effort and paying a high price, manage take most of Donbas and a corridor to Crimea. Though at the cost of several Mariupols. Who the hell knows, but it sounds plausible.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,723

    HYUFD said:

    Cannot believe the Tories are whipping against investigating Boris Johnson.

    Every MP that votes for that disgrace are going to get beaten like morning wood at the next election.

    Labour MPs did not vote to investigate Blair over WMD misleading in Parliament
    The Conservatives should have higher standards than 'as bad as Blair.'
    Just catching up but it looks like HMG have thrown in the towel on this one:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/20/boris-johnson-abandons-efforts-block-inquiry-on-misleading-commons-over-partygate
    Not so much thrown in the towel but jammed it into the U-bend to try and stop the due processes of flushing.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,682
    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
    On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.
    shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs
    If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.
    No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

    The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway
    Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

    The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.
    Yes it should, the whole point we have the established church is to stop Rome again being our main established Catholic church, as it is in Scotland for instance where there is only a choice between Roman Catholic Popery or Presbyterian evangelicals. The Scottish Episcopal Anglican church is just a small minority church now.

    Not to mention the Parish system in England of the established church guarantees every Parishioner a church wedding or funeral regardless of how often they attend church
    Trying to start the Gordon Riots again?

    If I were an active Christian Scot I would be really angry at your description of Scottish religion as an Old Firm plus Partick Thistle. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that, starting with the Quakers.

    And your latter point is utterly irrelevant to your political worldview. It's a moral and pastoral one. it doesn't mean that Mr J pp HMtQ has to be i/c the C of E. In any case, what't the point of a boss of the C of E who keeps slagging it off?

    And there are numerous state and ex-state church arrangements across Europe that don't involve legislative power for bishops, and which aren't "Popery", to use HYUFD's sectarian slur.
    Almost every other nation in Europe has the Roman Catholic church or the Orthodox Church as its largest church.

    The main exceptions are nations like Norway and Denmark which also have the Protestant Lutheran church as their established church
    Irrelevant to your claim that England would "go Catholic" if it switched to a Swedish or Dutch system. Your rhetoric is stuck in the era of Popery paranoia and witch hunts.
    The largest church in the Netherlands is now the Roman Catholic church, when once it was a Protestant majority nation

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Netherlands
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
    On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.
    shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs
    If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.
    No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

    The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway
    Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

    The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.
    Yes it should, the whole point we have the established church is to stop Rome again being our main established Catholic church, as it is in Scotland for instance where there is only a choice between Roman Catholic Popery or Presbyterian evangelicals. The Scottish Episcopal Anglican church is just a small minority church now.

    Not to mention the Parish system in England of the established church guarantees every Parishioner a church wedding or funeral regardless of how often they attend church
    Trying to start the Gordon Riots again?

    If I were an active Christian Scot I would be really angry at your description of Scottish religion as an Old Firm plus Partick Thistle. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that, starting with the Quakers.

    And your latter point is utterly irrelevant to your political worldview. It's a moral and pastoral one. it doesn't mean that Mr J pp HMtQ has to be i/c the C of E. In any case, what't the point of a boss of the C of E who keeps slagging it off?

    And there are numerous state and ex-state church arrangements across Europe that don't involve legislative power for bishops, and which aren't "Popery", to use HYUFD's sectarian slur.
    Almost every other nation in Europe has the Roman Catholic church or the Orthodox Church as its largest church.

    The main exceptions are nations like Norway and Denmark which also have the Protestant Lutheran church as their established church
    Not like you to forget the Jocks. Keep up the tank maintenance.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,682

    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
    On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.
    shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs
    If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.
    No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

    The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway
    Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

    The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.
    Yes it should, the whole point we have the established church is to stop Rome again being our main established Catholic church, as it is in Scotland for instance where there is only a choice between Roman Catholic Popery or Presbyterian evangelicals. The Scottish Episcopal Anglican church is just a small minority church now.

    Not to mention the Parish system in England of the established church guarantees every Parishioner a church wedding or funeral regardless of how often they attend church
    Trying to start the Gordon Riots again?

    If I were an active Christian Scot I would be really angry at your description of Scottish religion as an Old Firm plus Partick Thistle. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that, starting with the Quakers.

    And your latter point is utterly irrelevant to your political worldview. It's a moral and pastoral one. it doesn't mean that Mr J pp HMtQ has to be i/c the C of E. In any case, what't the point of a boss of the C of E who keeps slagging it off?

    And there are numerous state and ex-state church arrangements across Europe that don't involve legislative power for bishops, and which aren't "Popery", to use HYUFD's sectarian slur.
    Almost every other nation in Europe has the Roman Catholic church or the Orthodox Church as its largest church.

    The main exceptions are nations like Norway and Denmark which also have the Protestant Lutheran church as their established church
    Irrelevant to your claim that England would "go Catholic" if it switched to a Swedish or Dutch system. Your rhetoric is stuck in the era of Popery paranoia and witch hunts.
    Wait until he finds out Boris Johnson is a Papist.
    He still backs the C of E as the established church
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,005
    It must be a very difficult time for anyone who is a lickspittle for both Bozo and the Church of England.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994

    HYUFD said:

    Cannot believe the Tories are whipping against investigating Boris Johnson.

    Every MP that votes for that disgrace are going to get beaten like morning wood at the next election.

    Labour MPs did not vote to investigate Blair over WMD misleading in Parliament
    The Conservatives should have higher standards than 'as bad as Blair.'
    Yes, it is depressing but not surprising that tribalists will always fall back on just pointing at the baddies on the other side as an excuse.

    No one is perfect, but that doesn't mean we should just give up on any standards in politics, it isn't a race to the bottom.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,191
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
    On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.
    shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs
    If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.
    No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

    The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway
    Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

    The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.
    Yes it should, the whole point we have the established church is to stop Rome again being our main established Catholic church, as it is in Scotland for instance where there is only a choice between Roman Catholic Popery or Presbyterian evangelicals. The Scottish Episcopal Anglican church is just a small minority church now.

    Not to mention the Parish system in England of the established church guarantees every Parishioner a church wedding or funeral regardless of how often they attend church
    Trying to start the Gordon Riots again?

    If I were an active Christian Scot I would be really angry at your description of Scottish religion as an Old Firm plus Partick Thistle. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that, starting with the Quakers.

    And your latter point is utterly irrelevant to your political worldview. It's a moral and pastoral one. it doesn't mean that Mr J pp HMtQ has to be i/c the C of E. In any case, what't the point of a boss of the C of E who keeps slagging it off?

    The Quakers are also a tiny minority in Scotland. Scottish religion has been and still is dominated by Roman Catholicism a la Celtic and Church of Scotland evangelical Presbyterianism a la Rangers or even more hardline evangelism in the Free Church of Scotland.

    The reason England still has the Church of England as its largest church, not the Roman Catholic church or hardcore evangelicals, is the Church of England is the established church.

    Mr Johnson is not Supreme Governor of the C of E, the Queen is, Mr Johnson is not even Anglican but Roman Catholic
    But the C of E is absolutely full of romanists and hardline evangelicals anyway. So it's useless for the reason you clam. It's just a political construct to provide an ideological arm for the English state which is long out of date. The Scottish equivalent would be sacrificing a virgin on the summit of Arthur's Seat every Beltane dawn.
    No it isn't. The largest group in the Church of England is liberals with a smaller group of conservative evangelicals and a tiny subset of Anglo Catholics still (many of whom went to Rome already over women priests).

    Is that still the case? I'd have put the centre of gravity of the C of E roughly at soft-charismatic-evangelical, as in Holy Trinity Brompton, the Alpha course and all that. (For those who remember it, the chruch in "Rev" that served smoothies and was full of shiny happy people.) Which is the tradition that Justin Welby came from, though I think he has moved some way away from it.

    Not hardcore conservative evangelicals, sure, but not liberal in the way that Robert Runcie would have recognised.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,682
    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
    On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.
    shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs
    If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.
    No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

    The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway
    Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

    The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.
    Yes it should, the whole point we have the established church is to stop Rome again being our main established Catholic church, as it is in Scotland for instance where there is only a choice between Roman Catholic Popery or Presbyterian evangelicals. The Scottish Episcopal Anglican church is just a small minority church now.

    Not to mention the Parish system in England of the established church guarantees every Parishioner a church wedding or funeral regardless of how often they attend church
    Trying to start the Gordon Riots again?

    If I were an active Christian Scot I would be really angry at your description of Scottish religion as an Old Firm plus Partick Thistle. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that, starting with the Quakers.

    And your latter point is utterly irrelevant to your political worldview. It's a moral and pastoral one. it doesn't mean that Mr J pp HMtQ has to be i/c the C of E. In any case, what't the point of a boss of the C of E who keeps slagging it off?

    And there are numerous state and ex-state church arrangements across Europe that don't involve legislative power for bishops, and which aren't "Popery", to use HYUFD's sectarian slur.
    Almost every other nation in Europe has the Roman Catholic church or the Orthodox Church as its largest church.

    The main exceptions are nations like Norway and Denmark which also have the Protestant Lutheran church as their established church
    Largest does not equate established.
    It does, even in Germany and the Netherlands now, which used to be Protestant, they have the Roman Catholic church as their largest church as they have no established Protestant church like we, the Danes and Norwegians do
    But it is pretty likely that the RCC has had the highest weekly attendance in England for a fair amount of the last 50 years, even if we don't have great stats on it. So what are you defending?
    47% C of E, 10% Roman Catholic
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_England
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    Scott_xP said:

    Craig Whittaker MP says that he has called for the PM to resign over his "law-breaking" and he should be willing to refer himself to the privileges committee.

    #TheTake: https://news.sky.com/

    📺 Sky 501, Virgin 602, Freeview 233 and YouTube https://twitter.com/RidgeOnSunday/status/1516875939275284482/video/1

    I hold my hand up, I didn't think any MPs would actually wait for the fines before deciding that was the line, especially as others moved in the other direction.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,650
    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
    On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.
    shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs
    If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.
    No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

    The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway
    Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

    The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.
    Yes it should, the whole point we have the established church is to stop Rome again being our main established Catholic church, as it is in Scotland for instance where there is only a choice between Roman Catholic Popery or Presbyterian evangelicals. The Scottish Episcopal Anglican church is just a small minority church now.

    Not to mention the Parish system in England of the established church guarantees every Parishioner a church wedding or funeral regardless of how often they attend church
    Trying to start the Gordon Riots again?

    If I were an active Christian Scot I would be really angry at your description of Scottish religion as an Old Firm plus Partick Thistle. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that, starting with the Quakers.

    And your latter point is utterly irrelevant to your political worldview. It's a moral and pastoral one. it doesn't mean that Mr J pp HMtQ has to be i/c the C of E. In any case, what't the point of a boss of the C of E who keeps slagging it off?

    And there are numerous state and ex-state church arrangements across Europe that don't involve legislative power for bishops, and which aren't "Popery", to use HYUFD's sectarian slur.
    Almost every other nation in Europe has the Roman Catholic church or the Orthodox Church as its largest church.

    The main exceptions are nations like Norway and Denmark which also have the Protestant Lutheran church as their established church
    Irrelevant to your claim that England would "go Catholic" if it switched to a Swedish or Dutch system. Your rhetoric is stuck in the era of Popery paranoia and witch hunts.
    The largest church in the Netherlands is now the Roman Catholic church, when once it was a Protestant majority nation

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Netherlands
    At various points in recent history, the largest church in England was the Catholic Church.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,723

    It must be a very difficult time for anyone who is a lickspittle for both Bozo and the Church of England.

    Quite. Though I'd say the Tories, and emphjasise Mr J's role as de facto head of the C of E pp HMtQ rather than his formal RCism:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/20/pmqs-boris-johnson-denies-bbc-criticism-no-justin-welby-apology

    'A series of prominent Church of England figures defended Welby and the archbishop of York, Stephen Cottrell, with one saying those who questioned their right to criticise the controversial Rwanda scheme “need to acquaint themselves with the most basic rudiments of Christianity”.'
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    - “… with his ratings and Tory voting numbers in apparent freefall…”

    Five more Deltapoll-scale findings and I reckon he’s history. Tory MPs are clearly not interested in ethics, but the slimeballs won’t look forward to re-entering the jobs market just as England regains her Sick Man of Europe title.

    London
    Lab 50%
    Con 20%

    Rest of South
    Con 43%
    Lab 37%

    Midlands
    Con 47%
    Lab 37%

    North
    Lab 54%
    Con 24%

    Scotland
    SNP 49%
    Lab 29%
    Con 15%

    Wales
    Lab 56%
    PC 19%
    Con 13%

    (Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday; Sample Size: 1,550; Fieldwork: 13th - 14th April 2022)

    10% poll lead in the Midlands is hardly devastating for him
    Now you’re moving the goalposts. Previously it was a 10 point deficit which was your Ditch Johnson benchmark. Now a 10 point Con lead in one region is sufficient to save him.

    How bad does Con VI need to be before you advocate a fresh leader? Fifteen point deficit? A deficit in every single country and region?
    Most polls do not have a Labour lead of 10%+ UK wide
    Most polls are not UK-wide.

    So, a range of different pollsters all showing a 10 point plus Con deficit GB-/UK-wide will suffice? I take it your daft 10 point Con lead in the Midlands observation was your attempt at squirrel spotting.
    Remember, people who don't vote Tory DON'T COUNT.
    A country of 5.4 million, but only the 690,000 Tory voters matter.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,243

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    - “… with his ratings and Tory voting numbers in apparent freefall…”

    Five more Deltapoll-scale findings and I reckon he’s history. Tory MPs are clearly not interested in ethics, but the slimeballs won’t look forward to re-entering the jobs market just as England regains her Sick Man of Europe title.

    London
    Lab 50%
    Con 20%

    Rest of South
    Con 43%
    Lab 37%

    Midlands
    Con 47%
    Lab 37%

    North
    Lab 54%
    Con 24%

    Scotland
    SNP 49%
    Lab 29%
    Con 15%

    Wales
    Lab 56%
    PC 19%
    Con 13%

    (Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday; Sample Size: 1,550; Fieldwork: 13th - 14th April 2022)

    10% poll lead in the Midlands is hardly devastating for him
    Now you’re moving the goalposts. Previously it was a 10 point deficit which was your Ditch Johnson benchmark. Now a 10 point Con lead in one region is sufficient to save him.

    How bad does Con VI need to be before you advocate a fresh leader? Fifteen point deficit? A deficit in every single country and region?
    Most polls do not have a Labour lead of 10%+ UK wide
    The way the conservatives are going they will be a lot more than that behind Labour in the next few weeks

    I do think that Boris is now terminally wounded and will be voted out by his mps by the early summer

    It is over @HYUFD
    I'm with @HYUFD on this.

    Somehow or other Boris survives and goes on to win the autumn 2023 general election (though Con majority is halved) as Keith Starmer bores most of his potential voters into a slumber! ;)

    Labour wins in 2028 though!
  • Cannot believe the Tories are whipping against investigating Boris Johnson.

    Every MP that votes for that disgrace are going to get beaten like morning wood at the next election.

    And hopefully every council candidate who parades themselves with those MPs.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    Lol @ Chelski
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,650
    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
    On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.
    shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs
    If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.
    No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

    The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway
    Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

    The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.
    Yes it should, the whole point we have the established church is to stop Rome again being our main established Catholic church, as it is in Scotland for instance where there is only a choice between Roman Catholic Popery or Presbyterian evangelicals. The Scottish Episcopal Anglican church is just a small minority church now.

    Not to mention the Parish system in England of the established church guarantees every Parishioner a church wedding or funeral regardless of how often they attend church
    Trying to start the Gordon Riots again?

    If I were an active Christian Scot I would be really angry at your description of Scottish religion as an Old Firm plus Partick Thistle. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that, starting with the Quakers.

    And your latter point is utterly irrelevant to your political worldview. It's a moral and pastoral one. it doesn't mean that Mr J pp HMtQ has to be i/c the C of E. In any case, what't the point of a boss of the C of E who keeps slagging it off?

    And there are numerous state and ex-state church arrangements across Europe that don't involve legislative power for bishops, and which aren't "Popery", to use HYUFD's sectarian slur.
    Almost every other nation in Europe has the Roman Catholic church or the Orthodox Church as its largest church.

    The main exceptions are nations like Norway and Denmark which also have the Protestant Lutheran church as their established church
    Largest does not equate established.
    It does, even in Germany and the Netherlands now, which used to be Protestant, they have the Roman Catholic church as their largest church as they have no established Protestant church like we, the Danes and Norwegians do
    But it is pretty likely that the RCC has had the highest weekly attendance in England for a fair amount of the last 50 years, even if we don't have great stats on it. So what are you defending?
    47% C of E, 10% Roman Catholic
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_England
    And almost none of the 47% go to church. I didn't know you were a fan of self-ID :)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,723

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
    On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.
    shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs
    If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.
    No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

    The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway
    Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

    The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.
    Yes it should, the whole point we have the established church is to stop Rome again being our main established Catholic church, as it is in Scotland for instance where there is only a choice between Roman Catholic Popery or Presbyterian evangelicals. The Scottish Episcopal Anglican church is just a small minority church now.

    Not to mention the Parish system in England of the established church guarantees every Parishioner a church wedding or funeral regardless of how often they attend church
    Trying to start the Gordon Riots again?

    If I were an active Christian Scot I would be really angry at your description of Scottish religion as an Old Firm plus Partick Thistle. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that, starting with the Quakers.

    And your latter point is utterly irrelevant to your political worldview. It's a moral and pastoral one. it doesn't mean that Mr J pp HMtQ has to be i/c the C of E. In any case, what't the point of a boss of the C of E who keeps slagging it off?

    And there are numerous state and ex-state church arrangements across Europe that don't involve legislative power for bishops, and which aren't "Popery", to use HYUFD's sectarian slur.
    Almost every other nation in Europe has the Roman Catholic church or the Orthodox Church as its largest church.

    The main exceptions are nations like Norway and Denmark which also have the Protestant Lutheran church as their established church
    Not like you to forget the Jocks. Keep up the tank maintenance.

    I recently acquired a remaindered book about nothing but dummy Panzers - actually very interesting (a core element of Reichswehr/Wehrmacht training, as well as PR as in your pic): this sort of training Panzer:

    https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-soldaten-der-reichswehr-bewegen-nachbildungen-von-panzern-in-einem-87863712.html?pv=1&stamp=2&imageid=3F9D4A1B-C5F1-431C-9AE4-3E2168E736FC&p=291620&n=0&orientation=0&pn=1&searchtype=0&IsFromSearch=1&srch=foo=bar&st=0&pn=1&ps=100&sortby=2&resultview=sortbyPopular&npgs=0&qt=panzerattrappen&qt_raw=panzerattrappen&lic=3&mr=0&pr=0&ot=0&creative=&ag=0&hc=0&pc=&blackwhite=&cutout=&tbar=1&et=0x000000000000000000000&vp=0&loc=0&imgt=0&dtfr=&dtto=&size=0xFF&archive=1&groupid=&pseudoid=&a=&cdid=&cdsrt=&name=&qn=&apalib=&apalic=&lightbox=&gname=&gtype=&xstx=0&simid=&saveQry=&editorial=1&nu=&t=&edoptin=&customgeoip=&cap=1&cbstore=1&vd=0&lb=&fi=2&edrf=&ispremium=1&flip=0&pl=
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,723
    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
    On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.
    shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs
    If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.
    No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

    The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway
    Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

    The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.
    Yes it should, the whole point we have the established church is to stop Rome again being our main established Catholic church, as it is in Scotland for instance where there is only a choice between Roman Catholic Popery or Presbyterian evangelicals. The Scottish Episcopal Anglican church is just a small minority church now.

    Not to mention the Parish system in England of the established church guarantees every Parishioner a church wedding or funeral regardless of how often they attend church
    Trying to start the Gordon Riots again?

    If I were an active Christian Scot I would be really angry at your description of Scottish religion as an Old Firm plus Partick Thistle. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that, starting with the Quakers.

    And your latter point is utterly irrelevant to your political worldview. It's a moral and pastoral one. it doesn't mean that Mr J pp HMtQ has to be i/c the C of E. In any case, what't the point of a boss of the C of E who keeps slagging it off?

    And there are numerous state and ex-state church arrangements across Europe that don't involve legislative power for bishops, and which aren't "Popery", to use HYUFD's sectarian slur.
    Almost every other nation in Europe has the Roman Catholic church or the Orthodox Church as its largest church.

    The main exceptions are nations like Norway and Denmark which also have the Protestant Lutheran church as their established church
    Largest does not equate established.
    It does, even in Germany and the Netherlands now, which used to be Protestant, they have the Roman Catholic church as their largest church as they have no established Protestant church like we, the Danes and Norwegians do
    But it is pretty likely that the RCC has had the highest weekly attendance in England for a fair amount of the last 50 years, even if we don't have great stats on it. So what are you defending?
    47% C of E, 10% Roman Catholic
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_England
    And almost none of the 47% go to church. I didn't know you were a fan of self-ID :)
    Except foir hatching (perhaps), matching and despatching tbf.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,723

    Cannot believe the Tories are whipping against investigating Boris Johnson.

    Every MP that votes for that disgrace are going to get beaten like morning wood at the next election.

    And hopefully every council candidate who parades themselves with those MPs.
    No wonder Mr J and the C-word have been airbrushed from ScoTories electoral bumf.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    It must be a very difficult time for anyone who is a lickspittle for both Bozo and the Church of England.

    Don’t forget General Franco. The lickspittle manages to get his tongue up some pretty disgusting crevices.
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,285
    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    - “… with his ratings and Tory voting numbers in apparent freefall…”

    Five more Deltapoll-scale findings and I reckon he’s history. Tory MPs are clearly not interested in ethics, but the slimeballs won’t look forward to re-entering the jobs market just as England regains her Sick Man of Europe title.

    London
    Lab 50%
    Con 20%

    Rest of South
    Con 43%
    Lab 37%

    Midlands
    Con 47%
    Lab 37%

    North
    Lab 54%
    Con 24%

    Scotland
    SNP 49%
    Lab 29%
    Con 15%

    Wales
    Lab 56%
    PC 19%
    Con 13%

    (Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday; Sample Size: 1,550; Fieldwork: 13th - 14th April 2022)

    10% poll lead in the Midlands is hardly devastating for him
    Now you’re moving the goalposts. Previously it was a 10 point deficit which was your Ditch Johnson benchmark. Now a 10 point Con lead in one region is sufficient to save him.

    How bad does Con VI need to be before you advocate a fresh leader? Fifteen point deficit? A deficit in every single country and region?
    Most polls do not have a Labour lead of 10%+ UK wide
    The way the conservatives are going they will be a lot more than that behind Labour in the next few weeks

    I do think that Boris is now terminally wounded and will be voted out by his mps by the early summer

    It is over @HYUFD
    I'm with @HYUFD on this.

    Somehow or other Boris survives and goes on to win the autumn 2023 general election (though Con majority is halved) as Keith Starmer bores most of his potential voters into a slumber! ;)

    Labour wins in 2028 though!
    Not if someone from the Socialist Campaign Group takes over following a defeat. Very unlikely, but we thought the same about Corbyn winning the leadership seven years ago.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,842
    Farooq said:

    Sorry to go on about the war but....

    Has anyone seen or heard from an expert predicting that the Russians are likely to make a major breakthrough in the Donbass? I'm struck by the near universal scepticism from pretty much everyone I listen to or read. At the start of the war many were predicting Kiev would fall in days and the whole country within weeks. Now I can hardly find anyone who thinks they'll get very far. Quite a turnaround. There is a difference between unlikely and impossible and wars are unpredictable beasts. I hope the pendulum hasn't swung back too far the other way and the experts aren't herding in their views.

    I think it's a mug's game trying to predict what's going to happen. There's probably nobody in the world that has the necessary information: emplacements, numbers, state of equipment, morale, political will, discipline. All of these things are subject to concealment and misinformation. You'd be lucky to find someone who had a good overview of all this on one side, let alone both.
    A point which, when made weeks ago, was met with near universal condemnation on here.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,682

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
    On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.
    shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs
    If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.
    No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

    The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway
    Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

    The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.
    Yes it should, the whole point we have the established church is to stop Rome again being our main established Catholic church, as it is in Scotland for instance where there is only a choice between Roman Catholic Popery or Presbyterian evangelicals. The Scottish Episcopal Anglican church is just a small minority church now.

    Not to mention the Parish system in England of the established church guarantees every Parishioner a church wedding or funeral regardless of how often they attend church
    Trying to start the Gordon Riots again?

    If I were an active Christian Scot I would be really angry at your description of Scottish religion as an Old Firm plus Partick Thistle. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that, starting with the Quakers.

    And your latter point is utterly irrelevant to your political worldview. It's a moral and pastoral one. it doesn't mean that Mr J pp HMtQ has to be i/c the C of E. In any case, what't the point of a boss of the C of E who keeps slagging it off?

    The Quakers are also a tiny minority in Scotland. Scottish religion has been and still is dominated by Roman Catholicism a la Celtic and Church of Scotland evangelical Presbyterianism a la Rangers or even more hardline evangelism in the Free Church of Scotland.

    The reason England still has the Church of England as its largest church, not the Roman Catholic church or hardcore evangelicals, is the Church of England is the established church.

    Mr Johnson is not Supreme Governor of the C of E, the Queen is, Mr Johnson is not even Anglican but Roman Catholic
    But the C of E is absolutely full of romanists and hardline evangelicals anyway. So it's useless for the reason you clam. It's just a political construct to provide an ideological arm for the English state which is long out of date. The Scottish equivalent would be sacrificing a virgin on the summit of Arthur's Seat every Beltane dawn.
    No it isn't. The largest group in the Church of England is liberals with a smaller group of conservative evangelicals and a tiny subset of Anglo Catholics still (many of whom went to Rome already over women priests).

    Is that still the case? I'd have put the centre of gravity of the C of E roughly at soft-charismatic-evangelical, as in Holy Trinity Brompton, the Alpha course and all that. (For those who remember it, the chruch in "Rev" that served smoothies and was full of shiny happy people.) Which is the tradition that Justin Welby came from, though I think he has moved some way away from it.

    Not hardcore conservative evangelicals, sure, but not liberal in the way that Robert Runcie would have recognised.
    In the Synod elections last year 131 candidates from the liberal 'inclusive church' wing were elected, with 30 Anglo Catholics.

    On gay marriage revisionists and Orthodox evangelicals were about equal overall but revisionists were ahead in the House of Clergy

    https://www.churchtimes.co.uk/articles/2021/22-october/news/uk/high-turnover-in-general-synod-elections
    https://www.psephizo.com/life-ministry/what-will-the-new-general-synod-look-like/
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    - “… with his ratings and Tory voting numbers in apparent freefall…”

    Five more Deltapoll-scale findings and I reckon he’s history. Tory MPs are clearly not interested in ethics, but the slimeballs won’t look forward to re-entering the jobs market just as England regains her Sick Man of Europe title.

    London
    Lab 50%
    Con 20%

    Rest of South
    Con 43%
    Lab 37%

    Midlands
    Con 47%
    Lab 37%

    North
    Lab 54%
    Con 24%

    Scotland
    SNP 49%
    Lab 29%
    Con 15%

    Wales
    Lab 56%
    PC 19%
    Con 13%

    (Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday; Sample Size: 1,550; Fieldwork: 13th - 14th April 2022)

    10% poll lead in the Midlands is hardly devastating for him
    Now you’re moving the goalposts. Previously it was a 10 point deficit which was your Ditch Johnson benchmark. Now a 10 point Con lead in one region is sufficient to save him.

    How bad does Con VI need to be before you advocate a fresh leader? Fifteen point deficit? A deficit in every single country and region?
    Most polls do not have a Labour lead of 10%+ UK wide
    The way the conservatives are going they will be a lot more than that behind Labour in the next few weeks

    I do think that Boris is now terminally wounded and will be voted out by his mps by the early summer

    It is over @HYUFD
    But if he’s not, you’ll manage to find ten more excuses to change your mind. Even Douglas Ross doesn’t u-turn as often as you.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039
    Macron looks like an effeminate, highly arrogant young man wearisomely forced to lecture his plodding, if well meaning mother, for the umpteenth time, and unable to conceal his abiding, slightly sinister contempt for her

    No wonder he wins, it is the repeat of his marriage



  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    HYUFD said:

    Cannot believe the Tories are whipping against investigating Boris Johnson.

    Every MP that votes for that disgrace are going to get beaten like morning wood at the next election.

    Labour MPs did not vote to investigate Blair over WMD misleading in Parliament
    The Conservatives should have higher standards than 'as bad as Blair.'
    Just catching up but it looks like HMG have thrown in the towel on this one:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/20/boris-johnson-abandons-efforts-block-inquiry-on-misleading-commons-over-partygate
    Meaning that IF Boris & Co tried to impose 3-line whip, a significant share of Conservative MPs would either abstain, or rebel outright?

    Like May 1940, but with Boris Johnson doing 3rd-mil. portrayal NOT of Churchill, but Chamberlain.

    First time drama, second time farce.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Leon said:

    Macron looks like an effeminate, highly arrogant young man wearisomely forced to lecture his plodding, if well meaning mother, for the umpteenth time, and unable to conceal his abiding, slightly sinister contempt for her

    No wonder he wins, it is the repeat of his marriage



    More poison please Sean. You’re losing your touch.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,958
    edited April 2022
    My wife and I have returned our postal votes for the two independent (non closet conservatives) candidates for may and have no regrets whatsoever for not voting conservative for the first time at the locals

    Boris has to go and his mps have to move against him post may elections
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,682
    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
    On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.
    shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs
    If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.
    No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

    The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway
    Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

    The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.
    Yes it should, the whole point we have the established church is to stop Rome again being our main established Catholic church, as it is in Scotland for instance where there is only a choice between Roman Catholic Popery or Presbyterian evangelicals. The Scottish Episcopal Anglican church is just a small minority church now.

    Not to mention the Parish system in England of the established church guarantees every Parishioner a church wedding or funeral regardless of how often they attend church
    Trying to start the Gordon Riots again?

    If I were an active Christian Scot I would be really angry at your description of Scottish religion as an Old Firm plus Partick Thistle. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that, starting with the Quakers.

    And your latter point is utterly irrelevant to your political worldview. It's a moral and pastoral one. it doesn't mean that Mr J pp HMtQ has to be i/c the C of E. In any case, what't the point of a boss of the C of E who keeps slagging it off?

    And there are numerous state and ex-state church arrangements across Europe that don't involve legislative power for bishops, and which aren't "Popery", to use HYUFD's sectarian slur.
    Almost every other nation in Europe has the Roman Catholic church or the Orthodox Church as its largest church.

    The main exceptions are nations like Norway and Denmark which also have the Protestant Lutheran church as their established church
    Largest does not equate established.
    It does, even in Germany and the Netherlands now, which used to be Protestant, they have the Roman Catholic church as their largest church as they have no established Protestant church like we, the Danes and Norwegians do
    But it is pretty likely that the RCC has had the highest weekly attendance in England for a fair amount of the last 50 years, even if we don't have great stats on it. So what are you defending?
    47% C of E, 10% Roman Catholic
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_England
    And almost none of the 47% go to church. I didn't know you were a fan of self-ID :)
    What has that got to do with it? If the C of E was not the established church many would not even identify with it and the Roman Catholic church would again be our largest church.

    Plus of course the end of the Parish system means no automatic right to church weddings or funerals for Parishioners for non church attendees
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
    On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.
    shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs
    If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.
    No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

    The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway
    Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

    The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.
    Yes it should, the whole point we have the established church is to stop Rome again being our main established Catholic church, as it is in Scotland for instance where there is only a choice between Roman Catholic Popery or Presbyterian evangelicals. The Scottish Episcopal Anglican church is just a small minority church now.

    Not to mention the Parish system in England of the established church guarantees every Parishioner a church wedding or funeral regardless of how often they attend church
    Trying to start the Gordon Riots again?

    If I were an active Christian Scot I would be really angry at your description of Scottish religion as an Old Firm plus Partick Thistle. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that, starting with the Quakers.

    And your latter point is utterly irrelevant to your political worldview. It's a moral and pastoral one. it doesn't mean that Mr J pp HMtQ has to be i/c the C of E. In any case, what't the point of a boss of the C of E who keeps slagging it off?

    And there are numerous state and ex-state church arrangements across Europe that don't involve legislative power for bishops, and which aren't "Popery", to use HYUFD's sectarian slur.
    Almost every other nation in Europe has the Roman Catholic church or the Orthodox Church as its largest church.

    The main exceptions are nations like Norway and Denmark which also have the Protestant Lutheran church as their established church
    Not like you to forget the Jocks. Keep up the tank maintenance.

    I recently acquired a remaindered book about nothing but dummy Panzers - actually very interesting (a core element of Reichswehr/Wehrmacht training, as well as PR as in your pic): this sort of training Panzer:

    https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-soldaten-der-reichswehr-bewegen-nachbildungen-von-panzern-in-einem-87863712.html?pv=1&stamp=2&imageid=3F9D4A1B-C5F1-431C-9AE4-3E2168E736FC&p=291620&n=0&orientation=0&pn=1&searchtype=0&IsFromSearch=1&srch=foo=bar&st=0&pn=1&ps=100&sortby=2&resultview=sortbyPopular&npgs=0&qt=panzerattrappen&qt_raw=panzerattrappen&lic=3&mr=0&pr=0&ot=0&creative=&ag=0&hc=0&pc=&blackwhite=&cutout=&tbar=1&et=0x000000000000000000000&vp=0&loc=0&imgt=0&dtfr=&dtto=&size=0xFF&archive=1&groupid=&pseudoid=&a=&cdid=&cdsrt=&name=&qn=&apalib=&apalic=&lightbox=&gname=&gtype=&xstx=0&simid=&saveQry=&editorial=1&nu=&t=&edoptin=&customgeoip=&cap=1&cbstore=1&vd=0&lb=&fi=2&edrf=&ispremium=1&flip=0&pl=
    https://tinyurl.com/uf7appap
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    In the unlikely event PBers aren’t aware, France24 HD with live translation on Virgin cable Channel 624
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,842

    HYUFD said:

    Cannot believe the Tories are whipping against investigating Boris Johnson.

    Every MP that votes for that disgrace are going to get beaten like morning wood at the next election.

    Labour MPs did not vote to investigate Blair over WMD misleading in Parliament
    The Conservatives should have higher standards than 'as bad as Blair.'
    Time to reprise my observation earlier of seeing SKS head into T Blair's London residence this evening.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,682
    Carnyx said:

    It must be a very difficult time for anyone who is a lickspittle for both Bozo and the Church of England.

    Quite. Though I'd say the Tories, and emphjasise Mr J's role as de facto head of the C of E pp HMtQ rather than his formal RCism:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/20/pmqs-boris-johnson-denies-bbc-criticism-no-justin-welby-apology

    'A series of prominent Church of England figures defended Welby and the archbishop of York, Stephen Cottrell, with one saying those who questioned their right to criticise the controversial Rwanda scheme “need to acquaint themselves with the most basic rudiments of Christianity”.'
    Rubbish, Boris has no role in the C of E whatsoever, Raab even advises the Queen on Bishop appointments now not Boris
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639

    My wife and I have returned our postal votes for the two independent (non coset conservatives) candidates for may and have no regrets whatsoever for not voting conservative for the first time at the locals

    Boris has to go and his mps have to move against him post may elections

    Don't tell @HYUFD
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,682
    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
    On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.
    shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs
    If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.
    No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

    The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway
    Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

    The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.
    Yes it should, the whole point we have the established church is to stop Rome again being our main established Catholic church, as it is in Scotland for instance where there is only a choice between Roman Catholic Popery or Presbyterian evangelicals. The Scottish Episcopal Anglican church is just a small minority church now.

    Not to mention the Parish system in England of the established church guarantees every Parishioner a church wedding or funeral regardless of how often they attend church
    Trying to start the Gordon Riots again?

    If I were an active Christian Scot I would be really angry at your description of Scottish religion as an Old Firm plus Partick Thistle. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that, starting with the Quakers.

    And your latter point is utterly irrelevant to your political worldview. It's a moral and pastoral one. it doesn't mean that Mr J pp HMtQ has to be i/c the C of E. In any case, what't the point of a boss of the C of E who keeps slagging it off?

    And there are numerous state and ex-state church arrangements across Europe that don't involve legislative power for bishops, and which aren't "Popery", to use HYUFD's sectarian slur.
    Almost every other nation in Europe has the Roman Catholic church or the Orthodox Church as its largest church.

    The main exceptions are nations like Norway and Denmark which also have the Protestant Lutheran church as their established church
    Irrelevant to your claim that England would "go Catholic" if it switched to a Swedish or Dutch system. Your rhetoric is stuck in the era of Popery paranoia and witch hunts.
    The largest church in the Netherlands is now the Roman Catholic church, when once it was a Protestant majority nation

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Netherlands
    At various points in recent history, the largest church in England was the Catholic Church.
    BEFORE the Reformation when we had no Protestant established church
  • My wife and I have returned our postal votes for the two independent (non coset conservatives) candidates for may and have no regrets whatsoever for not voting conservative for the first time at the locals

    Boris has to go and his mps have to move against him post may elections

    Don't tell @HYUFD
    He voted for Plaid would you believe and something I would never do
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,723
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    It must be a very difficult time for anyone who is a lickspittle for both Bozo and the Church of England.

    Quite. Though I'd say the Tories, and emphjasise Mr J's role as de facto head of the C of E pp HMtQ rather than his formal RCism:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/20/pmqs-boris-johnson-denies-bbc-criticism-no-justin-welby-apology

    'A series of prominent Church of England figures defended Welby and the archbishop of York, Stephen Cottrell, with one saying those who questioned their right to criticise the controversial Rwanda scheme “need to acquaint themselves with the most basic rudiments of Christianity”.'
    Rubbish, Boris has no role in the C of E whatsoever, Raab even advises the Queen on Bishop appointments now not Boris
    Mr Johnson does, he's PM. It goes with the job. Mr Raab only has it by delegation from Mr J.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,569

    - “… with his ratings and Tory voting numbers in apparent freefall…”

    Five more Deltapoll-scale findings and I reckon he’s history. Tory MPs are clearly not interested in ethics, but the slimeballs won’t look forward to re-entering the jobs market just as England regains her Sick Man of Europe title.

    London
    Lab 50%
    Con 20%

    Rest of South
    Con 43%
    Lab 37%

    Midlands
    Con 47%
    Lab 37%

    North
    Lab 54%
    Con 24%

    Scotland
    SNP 49%
    Lab 29%
    Con 15%

    Wales
    Lab 56%
    PC 19%
    Con 13%

    (Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday; Sample Size: 1,550; Fieldwork: 13th - 14th April 2022)

    Those Welsh and Scottish subsamples!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,682

    My wife and I have returned our postal votes for the two independent (non coset conservatives) candidates for may and have no regrets whatsoever for not voting conservative for the first time at the locals

    Boris has to go and his mps have to move against him post may elections

    Don't tell @HYUFD
    Given BigG voted for Blair twice it is hardly that surprising
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039

    Leon said:

    Macron looks like an effeminate, highly arrogant young man wearisomely forced to lecture his plodding, if well meaning mother, for the umpteenth time, and unable to conceal his abiding, slightly sinister contempt for her

    No wonder he wins, it is the repeat of his marriage



    More poison please Sean. You’re losing your touch.
    I am not Sean, you creepy Swedish boy-scout-guide with your weird keen-ness on manly nude lake bathing
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,682
    Leon said:

    Macron looks like an effeminate, highly arrogant young man wearisomely forced to lecture his plodding, if well meaning mother, for the umpteenth time, and unable to conceal his abiding, slightly sinister contempt for her

    No wonder he wins, it is the repeat of his marriage



    Seems a bit Gore in 2000 debates from Macron here, sneering and effortlessly superior
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    - “… with his ratings and Tory voting numbers in apparent freefall…”

    Five more Deltapoll-scale findings and I reckon he’s history. Tory MPs are clearly not interested in ethics, but the slimeballs won’t look forward to re-entering the jobs market just as England regains her Sick Man of Europe title.

    London
    Lab 50%
    Con 20%

    Rest of South
    Con 43%
    Lab 37%

    Midlands
    Con 47%
    Lab 37%

    North
    Lab 54%
    Con 24%

    Scotland
    SNP 49%
    Lab 29%
    Con 15%

    Wales
    Lab 56%
    PC 19%
    Con 13%

    (Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday; Sample Size: 1,550; Fieldwork: 13th - 14th April 2022)

    10% poll lead in the Midlands is hardly devastating for him
    34% off the pace in Scotland is, though.
    Boris:
    10 points off the pace in England.
    30 point off the pace in Scotland.
    40 points off the pace in Wales.
    AWOL in Ireland.

    Conservative MPs are out of their tiny minds.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,723
    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
    On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.
    shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs
    If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.
    No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

    The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway
    Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

    The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.
    Yes it should, the whole point we have the established church is to stop Rome again being our main established Catholic church, as it is in Scotland for instance where there is only a choice between Roman Catholic Popery or Presbyterian evangelicals. The Scottish Episcopal Anglican church is just a small minority church now.

    Not to mention the Parish system in England of the established church guarantees every Parishioner a church wedding or funeral regardless of how often they attend church
    Trying to start the Gordon Riots again?

    If I were an active Christian Scot I would be really angry at your description of Scottish religion as an Old Firm plus Partick Thistle. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that, starting with the Quakers.

    And your latter point is utterly irrelevant to your political worldview. It's a moral and pastoral one. it doesn't mean that Mr J pp HMtQ has to be i/c the C of E. In any case, what't the point of a boss of the C of E who keeps slagging it off?

    And there are numerous state and ex-state church arrangements across Europe that don't involve legislative power for bishops, and which aren't "Popery", to use HYUFD's sectarian slur.
    Almost every other nation in Europe has the Roman Catholic church or the Orthodox Church as its largest church.

    The main exceptions are nations like Norway and Denmark which also have the Protestant Lutheran church as their established church
    Largest does not equate established.
    It does, even in Germany and the Netherlands now, which used to be Protestant, they have the Roman Catholic church as their largest church as they have no established Protestant church like we, the Danes and Norwegians do
    But it is pretty likely that the RCC has had the highest weekly attendance in England for a fair amount of the last 50 years, even if we don't have great stats on it. So what are you defending?
    47% C of E, 10% Roman Catholic
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_England
    And almost none of the 47% go to church. I didn't know you were a fan of self-ID :)
    What has that got to do with it? If the C of E was not the established church many would not even identify with it and the Roman Catholic church would again be our largest church.

    Plus of course the end of the Parish system means no automatic right to church weddings or funerals for Parishioners for non church attendees
    The last point is rather the point. I wouldn't rock up to the local Jedi temple and demand a burial if I had never been an active member.

    Unless you think that being a member of the C of E is somehow, erm. 'English' in a way that other religions and non-religions are not.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,243

    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    - “… with his ratings and Tory voting numbers in apparent freefall…”

    Five more Deltapoll-scale findings and I reckon he’s history. Tory MPs are clearly not interested in ethics, but the slimeballs won’t look forward to re-entering the jobs market just as England regains her Sick Man of Europe title.

    London
    Lab 50%
    Con 20%

    Rest of South
    Con 43%
    Lab 37%

    Midlands
    Con 47%
    Lab 37%

    North
    Lab 54%
    Con 24%

    Scotland
    SNP 49%
    Lab 29%
    Con 15%

    Wales
    Lab 56%
    PC 19%
    Con 13%

    (Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday; Sample Size: 1,550; Fieldwork: 13th - 14th April 2022)

    10% poll lead in the Midlands is hardly devastating for him
    Now you’re moving the goalposts. Previously it was a 10 point deficit which was your Ditch Johnson benchmark. Now a 10 point Con lead in one region is sufficient to save him.

    How bad does Con VI need to be before you advocate a fresh leader? Fifteen point deficit? A deficit in every single country and region?
    Most polls do not have a Labour lead of 10%+ UK wide
    The way the conservatives are going they will be a lot more than that behind Labour in the next few weeks

    I do think that Boris is now terminally wounded and will be voted out by his mps by the early summer

    It is over @HYUFD
    I'm with @HYUFD on this.

    Somehow or other Boris survives and goes on to win the autumn 2023 general election (though Con majority is halved) as Keith Starmer bores most of his potential voters into a slumber! ;)

    Labour wins in 2028 though!
    Not if someone from the Socialist Campaign Group takes over following a defeat. Very unlikely, but we thought the same about Corbyn winning the leadership seven years ago.
    Not even Labour could be that stupid...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,682

    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    - “… with his ratings and Tory voting numbers in apparent freefall…”

    Five more Deltapoll-scale findings and I reckon he’s history. Tory MPs are clearly not interested in ethics, but the slimeballs won’t look forward to re-entering the jobs market just as England regains her Sick Man of Europe title.

    London
    Lab 50%
    Con 20%

    Rest of South
    Con 43%
    Lab 37%

    Midlands
    Con 47%
    Lab 37%

    North
    Lab 54%
    Con 24%

    Scotland
    SNP 49%
    Lab 29%
    Con 15%

    Wales
    Lab 56%
    PC 19%
    Con 13%

    (Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday; Sample Size: 1,550; Fieldwork: 13th - 14th April 2022)

    10% poll lead in the Midlands is hardly devastating for him
    Now you’re moving the goalposts. Previously it was a 10 point deficit which was your Ditch Johnson benchmark. Now a 10 point Con lead in one region is sufficient to save him.

    How bad does Con VI need to be before you advocate a fresh leader? Fifteen point deficit? A deficit in every single country and region?
    Most polls do not have a Labour lead of 10%+ UK wide
    The way the conservatives are going they will be a lot more than that behind Labour in the next few weeks

    I do think that Boris is now terminally wounded and will be voted out by his mps by the early summer

    It is over @HYUFD
    I'm with @HYUFD on this.

    Somehow or other Boris survives and goes on to win the autumn 2023 general election (though Con majority is halved) as Keith Starmer bores most of his potential voters into a slumber! ;)

    Labour wins in 2028 though!
    Not if someone from the Socialist Campaign Group takes over following a defeat. Very unlikely, but we thought the same about Corbyn winning the leadership seven years ago.
    At the moment it is more likely the Tories will be moving further right than Labour move left again if the polls are right and Starmer will be next PM.

    If not then you may be right
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,723

    My wife and I have returned our postal votes for the two independent (non coset conservatives) candidates for may and have no regrets whatsoever for not voting conservative for the first time at the locals

    Boris has to go and his mps have to move against him post may elections

    Don't tell @HYUFD
    He voted for Plaid would you believe and something I would never do
    *indrawn breath over sucked teeth and rattle of clutched pearls*
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    - “… with his ratings and Tory voting numbers in apparent freefall…”

    Five more Deltapoll-scale findings and I reckon he’s history. Tory MPs are clearly not interested in ethics, but the slimeballs won’t look forward to re-entering the jobs market just as England regains her Sick Man of Europe title.

    London
    Lab 50%
    Con 20%

    Rest of South
    Con 43%
    Lab 37%

    Midlands
    Con 47%
    Lab 37%

    North
    Lab 54%
    Con 24%

    Scotland
    SNP 49%
    Lab 29%
    Con 15%

    Wales
    Lab 56%
    PC 19%
    Con 13%

    (Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday; Sample Size: 1,550; Fieldwork: 13th - 14th April 2022)

    10% poll lead in the Midlands is hardly devastating for him
    Now you’re moving the goalposts. Previously it was a 10 point deficit which was your Ditch Johnson benchmark. Now a 10 point Con lead in one region is sufficient to save him.

    How bad does Con VI need to be before you advocate a fresh leader? Fifteen point deficit? A deficit in every single country and region?
    Most polls do not have a Labour lead of 10%+ UK wide
    The way the conservatives are going they will be a lot more than that behind Labour in the next few weeks

    I do think that Boris is now terminally wounded and will be voted out by his mps by the early summer

    It is over @HYUFD
    But if he’s not, you’ll manage to find ten more excuses to change your mind. Even Douglas Ross doesn’t u-turn as often as you.
    You are clearly not following my posts utterly condemning Boris and he has to go

    When he goes I will vote conservative otherwise it will be lib dem or independent at GE24
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039
    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Macron looks like an effeminate, highly arrogant young man wearisomely forced to lecture his plodding, if well meaning mother, for the umpteenth time, and unable to conceal his abiding, slightly sinister contempt for her

    No wonder he wins, it is the repeat of his marriage

    Envy, thy name is Leon
    lol. No

    This applies to all leading European politicians however, I would not wish to be any of them. Not just France.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,682

    My wife and I have returned our postal votes for the two independent (non coset conservatives) candidates for may and have no regrets whatsoever for not voting conservative for the first time at the locals

    Boris has to go and his mps have to move against him post may elections

    Don't tell @HYUFD
    He voted for Plaid would you believe and something I would never do
    Only after I have voted for all 4 Tory candidates on the ballot paper to use all my 6 votes.

    Did you vote Tory as well as New Labour in 1997 and 2001?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    My wife and I have returned our postal votes for the two independent (non closet conservatives) candidates for may and have no regrets whatsoever for not voting conservative for the first time at the locals

    Boris has to go and his mps have to move against him post may elections

    Congratulations on casting your votes - anyway you choose.

    Here in King Co, WA the local election office hands out stickers or buttons to those who come to vote in person (very few) or deal with some issue (ditto). Saying "Vote!" or "I've Voted".

    BTW (also FYI) there are Spanish, Chinese, Vietnamese & Korean versions; I have whole collection!

    My favorite is "Yo voté" which I thinks works about as well in English as in Spanish.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,682
    edited April 2022
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
    On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.
    shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs
    If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.
    No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

    The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway
    Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

    The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.
    Yes it should, the whole point we have the established church is to stop Rome again being our main established Catholic church, as it is in Scotland for instance where there is only a choice between Roman Catholic Popery or Presbyterian evangelicals. The Scottish Episcopal Anglican church is just a small minority church now.

    Not to mention the Parish system in England of the established church guarantees every Parishioner a church wedding or funeral regardless of how often they attend church
    Trying to start the Gordon Riots again?

    If I were an active Christian Scot I would be really angry at your description of Scottish religion as an Old Firm plus Partick Thistle. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that, starting with the Quakers.

    And your latter point is utterly irrelevant to your political worldview. It's a moral and pastoral one. it doesn't mean that Mr J pp HMtQ has to be i/c the C of E. In any case, what't the point of a boss of the C of E who keeps slagging it off?

    And there are numerous state and ex-state church arrangements across Europe that don't involve legislative power for bishops, and which aren't "Popery", to use HYUFD's sectarian slur.
    Almost every other nation in Europe has the Roman Catholic church or the Orthodox Church as its largest church.

    The main exceptions are nations like Norway and Denmark which also have the Protestant Lutheran church as their established church
    Largest does not equate established.
    It does, even in Germany and the Netherlands now, which used to be Protestant, they have the Roman Catholic church as their largest church as they have no established Protestant church like we, the Danes and Norwegians do
    But it is pretty likely that the RCC has had the highest weekly attendance in England for a fair amount of the last 50 years, even if we don't have great stats on it. So what are you defending?
    47% C of E, 10% Roman Catholic
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_England
    And almost none of the 47% go to church. I didn't know you were a fan of self-ID :)
    What has that got to do with it? If the C of E was not the established church many would not even identify with it and the Roman Catholic church would again be our largest church.

    Plus of course the end of the Parish system means no automatic right to church weddings or funerals for Parishioners for non church attendees
    The last point is rather the point. I wouldn't rock up to the local Jedi temple and demand a burial if I had never been an active member.

    Unless you think that being a member of the C of E is somehow, erm. 'English' in a way that other religions and non-religions are not.
    To some extent country historic Church of England Parish churches are very much part of England, as much as Morris Dancing and Village Green cricket and traditional pubs. Even if you are not very religious
  • Got visited by Wandsworth Tories today.

    I asked if they would support putting Johnson in jail, they left quickly
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Macron looks like an effeminate, highly arrogant young man wearisomely forced to lecture his plodding, if well meaning mother, for the umpteenth time, and unable to conceal his abiding, slightly sinister contempt for her

    No wonder he wins, it is the repeat of his marriage



    More poison please Sean. You’re losing your touch.
    I am not Sean, you creepy Swedish boy-scout-guide with your weird keen-ness on manly nude lake bathing
    I gave that a like. Boris needs a bit of a challenge in this year’s England’s Big Fat Liar contest.

    Hugs n kisses from the lakeside xxx Thinking of you darling…
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,916
    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Macron looks like an effeminate, highly arrogant young man wearisomely forced to lecture his plodding, if well meaning mother, for the umpteenth time, and unable to conceal his abiding, slightly sinister contempt for her

    No wonder he wins, it is the repeat of his marriage

    Envy, thy name is Leon
    The subconscious of the aging dildo whittler has obviously decided he's the dad in the Oedipal fantasy he's constructed. Fear rather than envy I think.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,610
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cannot believe the Tories are whipping against investigating Boris Johnson.

    Every MP that votes for that disgrace are going to get beaten like morning wood at the next election.

    Labour MPs did not vote to investigate Blair over WMD misleading in Parliament
    The Conservatives should have higher standards than 'as bad as Blair.'
    Just catching up but it looks like HMG have thrown in the towel on this one:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/20/boris-johnson-abandons-efforts-block-inquiry-on-misleading-commons-over-partygate
    Not so much thrown in the towel but jammed it into the U-bend to try and stop the due processes of flushing.
    I see we are back to bloody Sue Grey report.

  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,754
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
    On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.
    shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs
    If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.
    No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

    The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway
    Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

    The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.
    Yes it should, the whole point we have the established church is to stop Rome again being our main established Catholic church, as it is in Scotland for instance where there is only a choice between Roman Catholic Popery or Presbyterian evangelicals. The Scottish Episcopal Anglican church is just a small minority church now.

    Not to mention the Parish system in England of the established church guarantees every Parishioner a church wedding or funeral regardless of how often they attend church
    Trying to start the Gordon Riots again?

    If I were an active Christian Scot I would be really angry at your description of Scottish religion as an Old Firm plus Partick Thistle. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that, starting with the Quakers.

    And your latter point is utterly irrelevant to your political worldview. It's a moral and pastoral one. it doesn't mean that Mr J pp HMtQ has to be i/c the C of E. In any case, what't the point of a boss of the C of E who keeps slagging it off?

    And there are numerous state and ex-state church arrangements across Europe that don't involve legislative power for bishops, and which aren't "Popery", to use HYUFD's sectarian slur.
    Almost every other nation in Europe has the Roman Catholic church or the Orthodox Church as its largest church.

    The main exceptions are nations like Norway and Denmark which also have the Protestant Lutheran church as their established church
    Largest does not equate established.
    It does, even in Germany and the Netherlands now, which used to be Protestant, they have the Roman Catholic church as their largest church as they have no established Protestant church like we, the Danes and Norwegians do
    But it is pretty likely that the RCC has had the highest weekly attendance in England for a fair amount of the last 50 years, even if we don't have great stats on it. So what are you defending?
    47% C of E, 10% Roman Catholic
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_England
    And almost none of the 47% go to church. I didn't know you were a fan of self-ID :)
    What has that got to do with it? If the C of E was not the established church many would not even identify with it and the Roman Catholic church would again be our largest church.

    Plus of course the end of the Parish system means no automatic right to church weddings or funerals for Parishioners for non church attendees
    The last point is rather the point. I wouldn't rock up to the local Jedi temple and demand a burial if I had never been an active member.

    Unless you think that being a member of the C of E is somehow, erm. 'English' in a way that other religions and non-religions are not.
    To some extent country historic Church of England Parish churches are very much part of England, as much as Morris Dancing and Village Green cricket and traditional pubs. Even if you are not very religious
    Morris Dancing is the absolute worst.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,842
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
    On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.
    shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs
    If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.
    No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

    The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway
    Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

    The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.
    Yes it should, the whole point we have the established church is to stop Rome again being our main established Catholic church, as it is in Scotland for instance where there is only a choice between Roman Catholic Popery or Presbyterian evangelicals. The Scottish Episcopal Anglican church is just a small minority church now.

    Not to mention the Parish system in England of the established church guarantees every Parishioner a church wedding or funeral regardless of how often they attend church
    Trying to start the Gordon Riots again?

    If I were an active Christian Scot I would be really angry at your description of Scottish religion as an Old Firm plus Partick Thistle. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that, starting with the Quakers.

    And your latter point is utterly irrelevant to your political worldview. It's a moral and pastoral one. it doesn't mean that Mr J pp HMtQ has to be i/c the C of E. In any case, what't the point of a boss of the C of E who keeps slagging it off?

    And there are numerous state and ex-state church arrangements across Europe that don't involve legislative power for bishops, and which aren't "Popery", to use HYUFD's sectarian slur.
    Almost every other nation in Europe has the Roman Catholic church or the Orthodox Church as its largest church.

    The main exceptions are nations like Norway and Denmark which also have the Protestant Lutheran church as their established church
    Largest does not equate established.
    It does, even in Germany and the Netherlands now, which used to be Protestant, they have the Roman Catholic church as their largest church as they have no established Protestant church like we, the Danes and Norwegians do
    But it is pretty likely that the RCC has had the highest weekly attendance in England for a fair amount of the last 50 years, even if we don't have great stats on it. So what are you defending?
    47% C of E, 10% Roman Catholic
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_England
    And almost none of the 47% go to church. I didn't know you were a fan of self-ID :)
    What has that got to do with it? If the C of E was not the established church many would not even identify with it and the Roman Catholic church would again be our largest church.

    Plus of course the end of the Parish system means no automatic right to church weddings or funerals for Parishioners for non church attendees
    The last point is rather the point. I wouldn't rock up to the local Jedi temple and demand a burial if I had never been an active member.

    Unless you think that being a member of the C of E is somehow, erm. 'English' in a way that other religions and non-religions are not.
    As the established church the CofE has an obligation to marry anyone who wants to be married, subject to Canon Law.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,644

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cannot believe the Tories are whipping against investigating Boris Johnson.

    Every MP that votes for that disgrace are going to get beaten like morning wood at the next election.

    Labour MPs did not vote to investigate Blair over WMD misleading in Parliament
    The Conservatives should have higher standards than 'as bad as Blair.'
    Just catching up but it looks like HMG have thrown in the towel on this one:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/20/boris-johnson-abandons-efforts-block-inquiry-on-misleading-commons-over-partygate
    Not so much thrown in the towel but jammed it into the U-bend to try and stop the due processes of flushing.
    I see we are back to bloody Sue Grey report.

    Gray shirley?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,191

    Got visited by Wandsworth Tories today.

    I asked if they would support putting Johnson in jail, they left quickly

    That's no fun!

    If you really wanted to cause trouble, you should have kept them talking for ages.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,326

    Got visited by Wandsworth Tories today.

    I asked if they would support putting Johnson in jail, they left quickly

    On what charge?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    - “… with his ratings and Tory voting numbers in apparent freefall…”

    Five more Deltapoll-scale findings and I reckon he’s history. Tory MPs are clearly not interested in ethics, but the slimeballs won’t look forward to re-entering the jobs market just as England regains her Sick Man of Europe title.

    London
    Lab 50%
    Con 20%

    Rest of South
    Con 43%
    Lab 37%

    Midlands
    Con 47%
    Lab 37%

    North
    Lab 54%
    Con 24%

    Scotland
    SNP 49%
    Lab 29%
    Con 15%

    Wales
    Lab 56%
    PC 19%
    Con 13%

    (Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday; Sample Size: 1,550; Fieldwork: 13th - 14th April 2022)

    10% poll lead in the Midlands is hardly devastating for him
    Now you’re moving the goalposts. Previously it was a 10 point deficit which was your Ditch Johnson benchmark. Now a 10 point Con lead in one region is sufficient to save him.

    How bad does Con VI need to be before you advocate a fresh leader? Fifteen point deficit? A deficit in every single country and region?
    Most polls do not have a Labour lead of 10%+ UK wide
    The way the conservatives are going they will be a lot more than that behind Labour in the next few weeks

    I do think that Boris is now terminally wounded and will be voted out by his mps by the early summer

    It is over @HYUFD
    But if he’s not, you’ll manage to find ten more excuses to change your mind. Even Douglas Ross doesn’t u-turn as often as you.
    You are clearly not following my posts utterly condemning Boris and he has to go

    When he goes I will vote conservative otherwise it will be lib dem or independent at GE24
    My apologies. PB threads are impossibly wrong these days. It’s just I saw you making quite a few positive noises about the Conservatives and their leader in recent months.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,610

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    - “… with his ratings and Tory voting numbers in apparent freefall…”

    Five more Deltapoll-scale findings and I reckon he’s history. Tory MPs are clearly not interested in ethics, but the slimeballs won’t look forward to re-entering the jobs market just as England regains her Sick Man of Europe title.

    London
    Lab 50%
    Con 20%

    Rest of South
    Con 43%
    Lab 37%

    Midlands
    Con 47%
    Lab 37%

    North
    Lab 54%
    Con 24%

    Scotland
    SNP 49%
    Lab 29%
    Con 15%

    Wales
    Lab 56%
    PC 19%
    Con 13%

    (Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday; Sample Size: 1,550; Fieldwork: 13th - 14th April 2022)

    10% poll lead in the Midlands is hardly devastating for him
    34% off the pace in Scotland is, though.
    Boris:
    10 points off the pace in England.
    30 point off the pace in Scotland.
    40 points off the pace in Wales.
    AWOL in Ireland.

    Conservative MPs are out of their tiny minds.
    What the feck is wrong with my fellow Midlanders? 47-37? Incredible given Johnson's last few weeks.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,723
    edited April 2022
    TOPPING said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
    On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.
    shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs
    If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.
    No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

    The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway
    Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

    The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.
    Yes it should, the whole point we have the established church is to stop Rome again being our main established Catholic church, as it is in Scotland for instance where there is only a choice between Roman Catholic Popery or Presbyterian evangelicals. The Scottish Episcopal Anglican church is just a small minority church now.

    Not to mention the Parish system in England of the established church guarantees every Parishioner a church wedding or funeral regardless of how often they attend church
    Trying to start the Gordon Riots again?

    If I were an active Christian Scot I would be really angry at your description of Scottish religion as an Old Firm plus Partick Thistle. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that, starting with the Quakers.

    And your latter point is utterly irrelevant to your political worldview. It's a moral and pastoral one. it doesn't mean that Mr J pp HMtQ has to be i/c the C of E. In any case, what't the point of a boss of the C of E who keeps slagging it off?

    And there are numerous state and ex-state church arrangements across Europe that don't involve legislative power for bishops, and which aren't "Popery", to use HYUFD's sectarian slur.
    Almost every other nation in Europe has the Roman Catholic church or the Orthodox Church as its largest church.

    The main exceptions are nations like Norway and Denmark which also have the Protestant Lutheran church as their established church
    Largest does not equate established.
    It does, even in Germany and the Netherlands now, which used to be Protestant, they have the Roman Catholic church as their largest church as they have no established Protestant church like we, the Danes and Norwegians do
    But it is pretty likely that the RCC has had the highest weekly attendance in England for a fair amount of the last 50 years, even if we don't have great stats on it. So what are you defending?
    47% C of E, 10% Roman Catholic
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_England
    And almost none of the 47% go to church. I didn't know you were a fan of self-ID :)
    What has that got to do with it? If the C of E was not the established church many would not even identify with it and the Roman Catholic church would again be our largest church.

    Plus of course the end of the Parish system means no automatic right to church weddings or funerals for Parishioners for non church attendees
    The last point is rather the point. I wouldn't rock up to the local Jedi temple and demand a burial if I had never been an active member.

    Unless you think that being a member of the C of E is somehow, erm. 'English' in a way that other religions and non-religions are not.
    As the established church the CofE has an obligation to marry anyone who wants to be married, subject to Canon Law.
    What's wrong with the registry office? Strip religions of any marriage powers and keep it in the hands of the state. It's a legal contract (and always was in Scotland, not a religious sacrament).
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,842
    HYUFD said:

    My wife and I have returned our postal votes for the two independent (non coset conservatives) candidates for may and have no regrets whatsoever for not voting conservative for the first time at the locals

    Boris has to go and his mps have to move against him post may elections

    Don't tell @HYUFD
    He voted for Plaid would you believe and something I would never do
    Only after I have voted for all 4 Tory candidates on the ballot paper to use all my 6 votes.

    Did you vote Tory as well as New Labour in 1997 and 2001?
    Thank goodness there weren't just two BNP candidates to choose from.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,754
    Leon said:

    Macron looks like an effeminate, highly arrogant young man wearisomely forced to lecture his plodding, if well meaning mother, for the umpteenth time, and unable to conceal his abiding, slightly sinister contempt for her

    No wonder he wins, it is the repeat of his marriage



    I'm not sure I would describe Le Pen as well meaning.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    edited April 2022

    Got visited by Wandsworth Tories today.

    I asked if they would support putting Johnson in jail, they left quickly

    Hopefully AFTER you detained them for 45 minutes giving them tea and asking questions regarding Conservative & Unionist position on ferret breading, badger baiting AND whether or not UAPs should be allowed to participate in AV elections.

    Addendum - God knows what fiendishness (or relish) is implicated in ferret "breading"!

    Certainly sounds lot less fun for the ferrets than ferret breeding.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Got visited by Wandsworth Tories today.

    I asked if they would support putting Johnson in jail, they left quickly

    On what charge?
    Being a Tory.

    Recently FUDHY was telling us that we rebels would be put against the wall. What’s good enough for the goose…
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,842
    Carnyx said:

    TOPPING said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
    On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.
    shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs
    If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.
    No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

    The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway
    Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

    The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.
    Yes it should, the whole point we have the established church is to stop Rome again being our main established Catholic church, as it is in Scotland for instance where there is only a choice between Roman Catholic Popery or Presbyterian evangelicals. The Scottish Episcopal Anglican church is just a small minority church now.

    Not to mention the Parish system in England of the established church guarantees every Parishioner a church wedding or funeral regardless of how often they attend church
    Trying to start the Gordon Riots again?

    If I were an active Christian Scot I would be really angry at your description of Scottish religion as an Old Firm plus Partick Thistle. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that, starting with the Quakers.

    And your latter point is utterly irrelevant to your political worldview. It's a moral and pastoral one. it doesn't mean that Mr J pp HMtQ has to be i/c the C of E. In any case, what't the point of a boss of the C of E who keeps slagging it off?

    And there are numerous state and ex-state church arrangements across Europe that don't involve legislative power for bishops, and which aren't "Popery", to use HYUFD's sectarian slur.
    Almost every other nation in Europe has the Roman Catholic church or the Orthodox Church as its largest church.

    The main exceptions are nations like Norway and Denmark which also have the Protestant Lutheran church as their established church
    Largest does not equate established.
    It does, even in Germany and the Netherlands now, which used to be Protestant, they have the Roman Catholic church as their largest church as they have no established Protestant church like we, the Danes and Norwegians do
    But it is pretty likely that the RCC has had the highest weekly attendance in England for a fair amount of the last 50 years, even if we don't have great stats on it. So what are you defending?
    47% C of E, 10% Roman Catholic
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_England
    And almost none of the 47% go to church. I didn't know you were a fan of self-ID :)
    What has that got to do with it? If the C of E was not the established church many would not even identify with it and the Roman Catholic church would again be our largest church.

    Plus of course the end of the Parish system means no automatic right to church weddings or funerals for Parishioners for non church attendees
    The last point is rather the point. I wouldn't rock up to the local Jedi temple and demand a burial if I had never been an active member.

    Unless you think that being a member of the C of E is somehow, erm. 'English' in a way that other religions and non-religions are not.
    As the established church the CofE has an obligation to marry anyone who wants to be married, subject to Canon Law.
    What's wrong with the registry office? Strip religions of any marriage powers and keep it in the hands of the state. It's a legal contract (and always was in Scotland, not a religious sacrament).
    Oh I agree just that as it stands the CofE has that obligation.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    - “… with his ratings and Tory voting numbers in apparent freefall…”

    Five more Deltapoll-scale findings and I reckon he’s history. Tory MPs are clearly not interested in ethics, but the slimeballs won’t look forward to re-entering the jobs market just as England regains her Sick Man of Europe title.

    London
    Lab 50%
    Con 20%

    Rest of South
    Con 43%
    Lab 37%

    Midlands
    Con 47%
    Lab 37%

    North
    Lab 54%
    Con 24%

    Scotland
    SNP 49%
    Lab 29%
    Con 15%

    Wales
    Lab 56%
    PC 19%
    Con 13%

    (Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday; Sample Size: 1,550; Fieldwork: 13th - 14th April 2022)

    10% poll lead in the Midlands is hardly devastating for him
    34% off the pace in Scotland is, though.
    Boris:
    10 points off the pace in England.
    30 point off the pace in Scotland.
    40 points off the pace in Wales.
    AWOL in Ireland.

    Conservative MPs are out of their tiny minds.
    What the feck is wrong with my fellow Midlanders? 47-37? Incredible given Johnson's last few weeks.

    Brexit has, quite literally, turned some folk bonkers.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited April 2022

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    - “… with his ratings and Tory voting numbers in apparent freefall…”

    Five more Deltapoll-scale findings and I reckon he’s history. Tory MPs are clearly not interested in ethics, but the slimeballs won’t look forward to re-entering the jobs market just as England regains her Sick Man of Europe title.

    London
    Lab 50%
    Con 20%

    Rest of South
    Con 43%
    Lab 37%

    Midlands
    Con 47%
    Lab 37%

    North
    Lab 54%
    Con 24%

    Scotland
    SNP 49%
    Lab 29%
    Con 15%

    Wales
    Lab 56%
    PC 19%
    Con 13%

    (Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday; Sample Size: 1,550; Fieldwork: 13th - 14th April 2022)

    10% poll lead in the Midlands is hardly devastating for him
    34% off the pace in Scotland is, though.
    Boris:
    10 points off the pace in England.
    30 point off the pace in Scotland.
    40 points off the pace in Wales.
    AWOL in Ireland.

    Conservative MPs are out of their tiny minds.
    What the feck is wrong with my fellow Midlanders? 47-37? Incredible given Johnson's last few weeks.

    Dunno. I can’t understand it either. In my part of the midlands we have sensible(ish) greens who are making the running, so at least I’ve got someone positive to vote for.

    Birmingham labour is pretty hated, with good reason, so that may well explain it.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,610

    Sam Coates Sky
    @SamCoatesSky
    ·
    53m
    So why might this amendment have bought off some Tory rebels?

    Because it appears rebels have been told that when *finally* there is a vote on referring Boris Johnson to the privileges committee, this will be a free vote

    So the rebels think the probe WILL happen - eventually

    ====

    They do know that he is serial lair don't they?
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,285

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    - “… with his ratings and Tory voting numbers in apparent freefall…”

    Five more Deltapoll-scale findings and I reckon he’s history. Tory MPs are clearly not interested in ethics, but the slimeballs won’t look forward to re-entering the jobs market just as England regains her Sick Man of Europe title.

    London
    Lab 50%
    Con 20%

    Rest of South
    Con 43%
    Lab 37%

    Midlands
    Con 47%
    Lab 37%

    North
    Lab 54%
    Con 24%

    Scotland
    SNP 49%
    Lab 29%
    Con 15%

    Wales
    Lab 56%
    PC 19%
    Con 13%

    (Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday; Sample Size: 1,550; Fieldwork: 13th - 14th April 2022)

    10% poll lead in the Midlands is hardly devastating for him
    34% off the pace in Scotland is, though.
    Boris:
    10 points off the pace in England.
    30 point off the pace in Scotland.
    40 points off the pace in Wales.
    AWOL in Ireland.

    Conservative MPs are out of their tiny minds.
    What the feck is wrong with my fellow Midlanders? 47-37? Incredible given Johnson's last few weeks.

    Guessing they like the culture war stuff against the woke and don't like Starmer. Maybe Street is helping the Tory brand in the West Midlands county?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,682
    edited April 2022
    Carnyx said:

    TOPPING said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
    On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.
    shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs
    If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.
    No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

    The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway
    Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

    The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.
    Yes it should, the whole point we have the established church is to stop Rome again being our main established Catholic church, as it is in Scotland for instance where there is only a choice between Roman Catholic Popery or Presbyterian evangelicals. The Scottish Episcopal Anglican church is just a small minority church now.

    Not to mention the Parish system in England of the established church guarantees every Parishioner a church wedding or funeral regardless of how often they attend church
    Trying to start the Gordon Riots again?

    If I were an active Christian Scot I would be really angry at your description of Scottish religion as an Old Firm plus Partick Thistle. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that, starting with the Quakers.

    And your latter point is utterly irrelevant to your political worldview. It's a moral and pastoral one. it doesn't mean that Mr J pp HMtQ has to be i/c the C of E. In any case, what't the point of a boss of the C of E who keeps slagging it off?

    And there are numerous state and ex-state church arrangements across Europe that don't involve legislative power for bishops, and which aren't "Popery", to use HYUFD's sectarian slur.
    Almost every other nation in Europe has the Roman Catholic church or the Orthodox Church as its largest church.

    The main exceptions are nations like Norway and Denmark which also have the Protestant Lutheran church as their established church
    Largest does not equate established.
    It does, even in Germany and the Netherlands now, which used to be Protestant, they have the Roman Catholic church as their largest church as they have no established Protestant church like we, the Danes and Norwegians do
    But it is pretty likely that the RCC has had the highest weekly attendance in England for a fair amount of the last 50 years, even if we don't have great stats on it. So what are you defending?
    47% C of E, 10% Roman Catholic
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_England
    And almost none of the 47% go to church. I didn't know you were a fan of self-ID :)
    What has that got to do with it? If the C of E was not the established church many would not even identify with it and the Roman Catholic church would again be our largest church.

    Plus of course the end of the Parish system means no automatic right to church weddings or funerals for Parishioners for non church attendees
    The last point is rather the point. I wouldn't rock up to the local Jedi temple and demand a burial if I had never been an active member.

    Unless you think that being a member of the C of E is somehow, erm. 'English' in a way that other religions and non-religions are not.
    As the established church the CofE has an obligation to marry anyone who wants to be married, subject to Canon Law.
    What's wrong with the registry office? Strip religions of any marriage powers and keep it in the hands of the state. It's a legal contract (and always was in Scotland, not a religious sacrament).
    Some people don't want a drab dull registry office, they want a wedding in a beautiful historic Medieval Parish Church of England church in a traditional English village, even if they are not that religious.

    Only having an established church gives them that opportunity automatically as of right as Parishioners
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,037
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Macron looks like an effeminate, highly arrogant young man wearisomely forced to lecture his plodding, if well meaning mother, for the umpteenth time, and unable to conceal his abiding, slightly sinister contempt for her

    No wonder he wins, it is the repeat of his marriage



    More poison please Sean. You’re losing your touch.
    I am not Sean, you creepy Swedish boy-scout-guide with your weird keen-ness on manly nude lake bathing
    What's creepy about some good manly nude lake bathing?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,842
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    TOPPING said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
    On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.
    shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs
    If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.
    No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

    The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway
    Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

    The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.
    Yes it should, the whole point we have the established church is to stop Rome again being our main established Catholic church, as it is in Scotland for instance where there is only a choice between Roman Catholic Popery or Presbyterian evangelicals. The Scottish Episcopal Anglican church is just a small minority church now.

    Not to mention the Parish system in England of the established church guarantees every Parishioner a church wedding or funeral regardless of how often they attend church
    Trying to start the Gordon Riots again?

    If I were an active Christian Scot I would be really angry at your description of Scottish religion as an Old Firm plus Partick Thistle. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that, starting with the Quakers.

    And your latter point is utterly irrelevant to your political worldview. It's a moral and pastoral one. it doesn't mean that Mr J pp HMtQ has to be i/c the C of E. In any case, what't the point of a boss of the C of E who keeps slagging it off?

    And there are numerous state and ex-state church arrangements across Europe that don't involve legislative power for bishops, and which aren't "Popery", to use HYUFD's sectarian slur.
    Almost every other nation in Europe has the Roman Catholic church or the Orthodox Church as its largest church.

    The main exceptions are nations like Norway and Denmark which also have the Protestant Lutheran church as their established church
    Largest does not equate established.
    It does, even in Germany and the Netherlands now, which used to be Protestant, they have the Roman Catholic church as their largest church as they have no established Protestant church like we, the Danes and Norwegians do
    But it is pretty likely that the RCC has had the highest weekly attendance in England for a fair amount of the last 50 years, even if we don't have great stats on it. So what are you defending?
    47% C of E, 10% Roman Catholic
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_England
    And almost none of the 47% go to church. I didn't know you were a fan of self-ID :)
    What has that got to do with it? If the C of E was not the established church many would not even identify with it and the Roman Catholic church would again be our largest church.

    Plus of course the end of the Parish system means no automatic right to church weddings or funerals for Parishioners for non church attendees
    The last point is rather the point. I wouldn't rock up to the local Jedi temple and demand a burial if I had never been an active member.

    Unless you think that being a member of the C of E is somehow, erm. 'English' in a way that other religions and non-religions are not.
    As the established church the CofE has an obligation to marry anyone who wants to be married, subject to Canon Law.
    What's wrong with the registry office? Strip religions of any marriage powers and keep it in the hands of the state. It's a legal contract (and always was in Scotland, not a religious sacrament).
    Some people don't want a drab dull registry office, they want a wedding in a beautiful historic Medieval Parish Church of England church in a traditional English village, even if they are not that religious.

    Only having an established church gives them that opportunity automatically as of right as Parishioners
    Not 100% correct. They are still subject to Canon Law. So not automatically.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,243

    ohnotnow said:

    And on top of that insightful comment - Mike - I do hope you're well.

    This COVID thing is a bit crap but I think I'm getting better. Wasn't helped today by our problems with Vanilla which thankfully has been sorted.
    Pleased you (and Vanilla) are recovering. :)
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    - “… with his ratings and Tory voting numbers in apparent freefall…”

    Five more Deltapoll-scale findings and I reckon he’s history. Tory MPs are clearly not interested in ethics, but the slimeballs won’t look forward to re-entering the jobs market just as England regains her Sick Man of Europe title.

    London
    Lab 50%
    Con 20%

    Rest of South
    Con 43%
    Lab 37%

    Midlands
    Con 47%
    Lab 37%

    North
    Lab 54%
    Con 24%

    Scotland
    SNP 49%
    Lab 29%
    Con 15%

    Wales
    Lab 56%
    PC 19%
    Con 13%

    (Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday; Sample Size: 1,550; Fieldwork: 13th - 14th April 2022)

    10% poll lead in the Midlands is hardly devastating for him
    Now you’re moving the goalposts. Previously it was a 10 point deficit which was your Ditch Johnson benchmark. Now a 10 point Con lead in one region is sufficient to save him.

    How bad does Con VI need to be before you advocate a fresh leader? Fifteen point deficit? A deficit in every single country and region?
    Most polls do not have a Labour lead of 10%+ UK wide
    The way the conservatives are going they will be a lot more than that behind Labour in the next few weeks

    I do think that Boris is now terminally wounded and will be voted out by his mps by the early summer

    It is over @HYUFD
    But if he’s not, you’ll manage to find ten more excuses to change your mind. Even Douglas Ross doesn’t u-turn as often as you.
    You are clearly not following my posts utterly condemning Boris and he has to go

    When he goes I will vote conservative otherwise it will be lib dem or independent at GE24
    My apologies. PB threads are impossibly wrong these days. It’s just I saw you making quite a few positive noises about the Conservatives and their leader in recent months.
    Apology accepted

    I want him gone as much as anyone

    He is damaging the conservative party, the integrity of politicians, and the country's discourse

    If his mps will not wield their power, than the electorate will do in 24
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,682

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
    On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.
    shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs
    If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.
    No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

    The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway
    Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

    The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.
    Yes it should, the whole point we have the established church is to stop Rome again being our main established Catholic church, as it is in Scotland for instance where there is only a choice between Roman Catholic Popery or Presbyterian evangelicals. The Scottish Episcopal Anglican church is just a small minority church now.

    Not to mention the Parish system in England of the established church guarantees every Parishioner a church wedding or funeral regardless of how often they attend church
    Trying to start the Gordon Riots again?

    If I were an active Christian Scot I would be really angry at your description of Scottish religion as an Old Firm plus Partick Thistle. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that, starting with the Quakers.

    And your latter point is utterly irrelevant to your political worldview. It's a moral and pastoral one. it doesn't mean that Mr J pp HMtQ has to be i/c the C of E. In any case, what't the point of a boss of the C of E who keeps slagging it off?

    And there are numerous state and ex-state church arrangements across Europe that don't involve legislative power for bishops, and which aren't "Popery", to use HYUFD's sectarian slur.
    Almost every other nation in Europe has the Roman Catholic church or the Orthodox Church as its largest church.

    The main exceptions are nations like Norway and Denmark which also have the Protestant Lutheran church as their established church
    Largest does not equate established.
    It does, even in Germany and the Netherlands now, which used to be Protestant, they have the Roman Catholic church as their largest church as they have no established Protestant church like we, the Danes and Norwegians do
    But it is pretty likely that the RCC has had the highest weekly attendance in England for a fair amount of the last 50 years, even if we don't have great stats on it. So what are you defending?
    47% C of E, 10% Roman Catholic
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_England
    And almost none of the 47% go to church. I didn't know you were a fan of self-ID :)
    What has that got to do with it? If the C of E was not the established church many would not even identify with it and the Roman Catholic church would again be our largest church.

    Plus of course the end of the Parish system means no automatic right to church weddings or funerals for Parishioners for non church attendees
    The last point is rather the point. I wouldn't rock up to the local Jedi temple and demand a burial if I had never been an active member.

    Unless you think that being a member of the C of E is somehow, erm. 'English' in a way that other religions and non-religions are not.
    To some extent country historic Church of England Parish churches are very much part of England, as much as Morris Dancing and Village Green cricket and traditional pubs. Even if you are not very religious
    Morris Dancing is the absolute worst.
    No it isn't. I have a friend who is a Morris Dancer, nothing better than a May Day Morris Dance watched with beer and ploughmans in a country pub
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,285

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    - “… with his ratings and Tory voting numbers in apparent freefall…”

    Five more Deltapoll-scale findings and I reckon he’s history. Tory MPs are clearly not interested in ethics, but the slimeballs won’t look forward to re-entering the jobs market just as England regains her Sick Man of Europe title.

    London
    Lab 50%
    Con 20%

    Rest of South
    Con 43%
    Lab 37%

    Midlands
    Con 47%
    Lab 37%

    North
    Lab 54%
    Con 24%

    Scotland
    SNP 49%
    Lab 29%
    Con 15%

    Wales
    Lab 56%
    PC 19%
    Con 13%

    (Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday; Sample Size: 1,550; Fieldwork: 13th - 14th April 2022)

    10% poll lead in the Midlands is hardly devastating for him
    34% off the pace in Scotland is, though.
    Boris:
    10 points off the pace in England.
    30 point off the pace in Scotland.
    40 points off the pace in Wales.
    AWOL in Ireland.

    Conservative MPs are out of their tiny minds.
    What the feck is wrong with my fellow Midlanders? 47-37? Incredible given Johnson's last few weeks.

    Brexit has, quite literally, turned some folk bonkers.
    Someone needs to do some public polling of the Midlands and find out exactly why it's so out of kilter with the rest of the country. Unlike the North (where Labour are miles ahead), it seems the Brexit voters seem to be sticking with the Tories.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,682
    edited April 2022

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    - “… with his ratings and Tory voting numbers in apparent freefall…”

    Five more Deltapoll-scale findings and I reckon he’s history. Tory MPs are clearly not interested in ethics, but the slimeballs won’t look forward to re-entering the jobs market just as England regains her Sick Man of Europe title.

    London
    Lab 50%
    Con 20%

    Rest of South
    Con 43%
    Lab 37%

    Midlands
    Con 47%
    Lab 37%

    North
    Lab 54%
    Con 24%

    Scotland
    SNP 49%
    Lab 29%
    Con 15%

    Wales
    Lab 56%
    PC 19%
    Con 13%

    (Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday; Sample Size: 1,550; Fieldwork: 13th - 14th April 2022)

    10% poll lead in the Midlands is hardly devastating for him
    34% off the pace in Scotland is, though.
    Boris:
    10 points off the pace in England.
    30 point off the pace in Scotland.
    40 points off the pace in Wales.
    AWOL in Ireland.

    Conservative MPs are out of their tiny minds.
    What the feck is wrong with my fellow Midlanders? 47-37? Incredible given Johnson's last few weeks.

    Brexit has, quite literally, turned some folk bonkers.
    Someone needs to do some public polling of the Midlands and find out exactly why it's so out of kilter with the rest of the country. Unlike the North (where Labour are miles ahead), it seems the Brexit voters seem to be sticking with the Tories.
    The Midlands used the be the key swing region along with London in England with the North safe Labour and the South safe Conservative.

    Now post Brexit the Midlands is safe Conservative, in some polls like this one even more so than the South, while London is safe Labour
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,806

    Sorry to go on about the war but....

    Has anyone seen or heard from an expert predicting that the Russians are likely to make a major breakthrough in the Donbass? I'm struck by the near universal scepticism from pretty much everyone I listen to or read. At the start of the war many were predicting Kiev would fall in days and the whole country within weeks. Now I can hardly find anyone who thinks they'll get very far. Quite a turnaround. There is a difference between unlikely and impossible and wars are unpredictable beasts. I hope the pendulum hasn't swung back too far the other way and the experts aren't herding in their views.

    I can't think of anything specific, but I do remember that Alastair Meeks had a different impression, writing that:

    "We keep being told by military strategists that this is a very different proposition from the battleground in northern Ukraine and we should not assume that just because the Russians failed in their assault on Kyiv that they will fail to make progress in the Donbas."

    There had also been some nervous pointing towards the potential for encirclement of the JFO before the withdrawal from around Kyiv.

    There is a lot of uncertainty, and as I think one of the analysts on twitter said, "war is a series of contingent events," but if Ukraine are to emerge victorious then it's hard to think of a possible opening eight weeks to the war that would be more likely to lead them in that direction.
    There is certainly a case for believing that the Russians are now pursuing their best strategy, having exhausted all the other possibilities.

    Personally I think they have handed the West an extraordinary opportunity to give them a massive arse-kicking, without making it too embarrassingly obvious that is what is going on. Of course this isn't much solace to the poor sods caught up in the war, but at least the Ukranian Nation is likely to emerge very much stronger in the long run. It will be a tough journey, but they are likely to get there in the end.
    Yes but why is the west being so half-hearted? Maybe they don't want to make a big thing about the support they are providing to Ukraine - spare parts but not actual fighter jets????? - but I'm starting to wonder if many in Nato really want Ukraine to win.

    Did the Russians have any difficulty in providing direct assistance to the North Vietnamese.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    - “… with his ratings and Tory voting numbers in apparent freefall…”

    Five more Deltapoll-scale findings and I reckon he’s history. Tory MPs are clearly not interested in ethics, but the slimeballs won’t look forward to re-entering the jobs market just as England regains her Sick Man of Europe title.

    London
    Lab 50%
    Con 20%

    Rest of South
    Con 43%
    Lab 37%

    Midlands
    Con 47%
    Lab 37%

    North
    Lab 54%
    Con 24%

    Scotland
    SNP 49%
    Lab 29%
    Con 15%

    Wales
    Lab 56%
    PC 19%
    Con 13%

    (Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday; Sample Size: 1,550; Fieldwork: 13th - 14th April 2022)

    10% poll lead in the Midlands is hardly devastating for him
    Now you’re moving the goalposts. Previously it was a 10 point deficit which was your Ditch Johnson benchmark. Now a 10 point Con lead in one region is sufficient to save him.

    How bad does Con VI need to be before you advocate a fresh leader? Fifteen point deficit? A deficit in every single country and region?
    Most polls do not have a Labour lead of 10%+ UK wide
    The way the conservatives are going they will be a lot more than that behind Labour in the next few weeks

    I do think that Boris is now terminally wounded and will be voted out by his mps by the early summer

    It is over @HYUFD
    I'm with @HYUFD on this.

    Somehow or other Boris survives and goes on to win the autumn 2023 general election (though Con majority is halved) as Keith Starmer bores most of his potential voters into a slumber! ;)

    Labour wins in 2028 though!
    Not if someone from the Socialist Campaign Group takes over following a defeat. Very unlikely, but we thought the same about Corbyn winning the leadership seven years ago.
    At the moment it is more likely the Tories will be moving further right than Labour move left again if the polls are right and Starmer will be next PM.

    If not then you may be right
    The Tories are moving *further* to the right?! You‘ve already been hijacked by extremists, and now you are relaxed about them dragging the once great old party into truly despicable political territory. Shame on you.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,027
    The really friggin stupid thing is for Tory MPs - and I keep repeating this fact - is that THERE ARE MORE FINES COMING. This doesn’t end after the first one. Idiots
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,610

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    - “… with his ratings and Tory voting numbers in apparent freefall…”

    Five more Deltapoll-scale findings and I reckon he’s history. Tory MPs are clearly not interested in ethics, but the slimeballs won’t look forward to re-entering the jobs market just as England regains her Sick Man of Europe title.

    London
    Lab 50%
    Con 20%

    Rest of South
    Con 43%
    Lab 37%

    Midlands
    Con 47%
    Lab 37%

    North
    Lab 54%
    Con 24%

    Scotland
    SNP 49%
    Lab 29%
    Con 15%

    Wales
    Lab 56%
    PC 19%
    Con 13%

    (Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday; Sample Size: 1,550; Fieldwork: 13th - 14th April 2022)

    10% poll lead in the Midlands is hardly devastating for him
    34% off the pace in Scotland is, though.
    Boris:
    10 points off the pace in England.
    30 point off the pace in Scotland.
    40 points off the pace in Wales.
    AWOL in Ireland.

    Conservative MPs are out of their tiny minds.
    What the feck is wrong with my fellow Midlanders? 47-37? Incredible given Johnson's last few weeks.

    Brexit has, quite literally, turned some folk bonkers.
    I can't see Starmer winning unless he can turn those Mids numbers around a bit more frankly.

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    - “… with his ratings and Tory voting numbers in apparent freefall…”

    Five more Deltapoll-scale findings and I reckon he’s history. Tory MPs are clearly not interested in ethics, but the slimeballs won’t look forward to re-entering the jobs market just as England regains her Sick Man of Europe title.

    London
    Lab 50%
    Con 20%

    Rest of South
    Con 43%
    Lab 37%

    Midlands
    Con 47%
    Lab 37%

    North
    Lab 54%
    Con 24%

    Scotland
    SNP 49%
    Lab 29%
    Con 15%

    Wales
    Lab 56%
    PC 19%
    Con 13%

    (Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday; Sample Size: 1,550; Fieldwork: 13th - 14th April 2022)

    10% poll lead in the Midlands is hardly devastating for him
    34% off the pace in Scotland is, though.
    Boris:
    10 points off the pace in England.
    30 point off the pace in Scotland.
    40 points off the pace in Wales.
    AWOL in Ireland.

    Conservative MPs are out of their tiny minds.
    What the feck is wrong with my fellow Midlanders? 47-37? Incredible given Johnson's last few weeks.

    Brexit has, quite literally, turned some folk bonkers.
    Someone needs to do some public polling of the Midlands and find out exactly why it's so out of kilter with the rest of the country. Unlike the North (where Labour are miles ahead), it seems the Brexit voters seem to be sticking with the Tories.
    Birmingham was ground zero for protectionism in days of Joe Chamberlain.

    Are industries in Midlands less trade dependent, or more challenged by Euro competition, or other current economic factors, differential to the rest of the UK?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,498

    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    - “… with his ratings and Tory voting numbers in apparent freefall…”

    Five more Deltapoll-scale findings and I reckon he’s history. Tory MPs are clearly not interested in ethics, but the slimeballs won’t look forward to re-entering the jobs market just as England regains her Sick Man of Europe title.

    London
    Lab 50%
    Con 20%

    Rest of South
    Con 43%
    Lab 37%

    Midlands
    Con 47%
    Lab 37%

    North
    Lab 54%
    Con 24%

    Scotland
    SNP 49%
    Lab 29%
    Con 15%

    Wales
    Lab 56%
    PC 19%
    Con 13%

    (Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday; Sample Size: 1,550; Fieldwork: 13th - 14th April 2022)

    10% poll lead in the Midlands is hardly devastating for him
    Now you’re moving the goalposts. Previously it was a 10 point deficit which was your Ditch Johnson benchmark. Now a 10 point Con lead in one region is sufficient to save him.

    How bad does Con VI need to be before you advocate a fresh leader? Fifteen point deficit? A deficit in every single country and region?
    Most polls do not have a Labour lead of 10%+ UK wide
    The way the conservatives are going they will be a lot more than that behind Labour in the next few weeks

    I do think that Boris is now terminally wounded and will be voted out by his mps by the early summer

    It is over @HYUFD
    I'm with @HYUFD on this.

    Somehow or other Boris survives and goes on to win the autumn 2023 general election (though Con majority is halved) as Keith Starmer bores most of his potential voters into a slumber! ;)

    Labour wins in 2028 though!
    Not if someone from the Socialist Campaign Group takes over following a defeat. Very unlikely, but we thought the same about Corbyn winning the leadership seven years ago.
    At the moment it is more likely the Tories will be moving further right than Labour move left again if the polls are right and Starmer will be next PM.

    If not then you may be right
    The Tories are moving *further* to the right?! You‘ve already been hijacked by extremists, and now you are relaxed about them dragging the once great old party into truly despicable political territory. Shame on you.
    Do you regard the Danish government as truly despicable?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    Sorry to go on about the war but....

    Has anyone seen or heard from an expert predicting that the Russians are likely to make a major breakthrough in the Donbass? I'm struck by the near universal scepticism from pretty much everyone I listen to or read. At the start of the war many were predicting Kiev would fall in days and the whole country within weeks. Now I can hardly find anyone who thinks they'll get very far. Quite a turnaround. There is a difference between unlikely and impossible and wars are unpredictable beasts. I hope the pendulum hasn't swung back too far the other way and the experts aren't herding in their views.

    I don't know what I am talking about, but my view FWIW is Russia can destroy Ukraine but it can't hold it. It will be facing a well equipped standing army attacking along the very long front of the occupied territory while being undermined from within by partisans. Partisan activity has already started in Melitopol next to Crimea and which was the first Ukrainian town to fall in this campaign. Maybe Mariupol which is next to the Russian border and is empty, but that will be it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,682
    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    TOPPING said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ROFL Johnson is about as reliable as a condom with a hole in it

    A bloke I was at university with was enamoured of a strictly Catholic girlfriend and used to push pins through unopened condom packets in the hope of impregnating and therefore marrying her. It didn't happen. He is now married to someone else and has children. The takeaway being, condoms are impregnated (ironic word) with spermicide and quite useful even when holed.
    hmmm so sex before marriage and using condoms....that is a very loose definition of the phrase "strictly catholic"
    On a point of PB pedantry, Ishmael didn't say 'Roman'. She might have been C of E, especially on the High/Puseyite sense.
    shrugs I cant keep all the denominations straight frankly, christians seem to be sects maniacs
    If it's any consolation, it's only because of an active interest in local history that I've had to learn the very real differences. Which are seriously important for anyone doing 19th century history (and interested in anything earlier). It's still utterly f***ing outrageous that the C of E is allocated seats in a supposedly modern parliament, when nobody else, no Kirk ministers, Muslim imams, Jewish rabbis, witches, shamans, or Jedi knights, gets places.
    No it isn't as the Church of England is the established Church and the Monarch its Supreme Governor.

    The Roman Catholic Church won't allow their bishops to be in the Lords anyway as it challenges the supremacy of the Vatican and the evangelicals have little interest in bishops anyway
    Oh, so Mr Johnson has put himself under the supremacy of the Vatican? Dodgy, you say.

    The whole point is that the C of E should not be an Established Church at all in the modern world. You know, we're not in the Tudor era any more. Or even the Stuart one. And look what happened to the Stuarts.
    Yes it should, the whole point we have the established church is to stop Rome again being our main established Catholic church, as it is in Scotland for instance where there is only a choice between Roman Catholic Popery or Presbyterian evangelicals. The Scottish Episcopal Anglican church is just a small minority church now.

    Not to mention the Parish system in England of the established church guarantees every Parishioner a church wedding or funeral regardless of how often they attend church
    Trying to start the Gordon Riots again?

    If I were an active Christian Scot I would be really angry at your description of Scottish religion as an Old Firm plus Partick Thistle. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that, starting with the Quakers.

    And your latter point is utterly irrelevant to your political worldview. It's a moral and pastoral one. it doesn't mean that Mr J pp HMtQ has to be i/c the C of E. In any case, what't the point of a boss of the C of E who keeps slagging it off?

    And there are numerous state and ex-state church arrangements across Europe that don't involve legislative power for bishops, and which aren't "Popery", to use HYUFD's sectarian slur.
    Almost every other nation in Europe has the Roman Catholic church or the Orthodox Church as its largest church.

    The main exceptions are nations like Norway and Denmark which also have the Protestant Lutheran church as their established church
    Largest does not equate established.
    It does, even in Germany and the Netherlands now, which used to be Protestant, they have the Roman Catholic church as their largest church as they have no established Protestant church like we, the Danes and Norwegians do
    But it is pretty likely that the RCC has had the highest weekly attendance in England for a fair amount of the last 50 years, even if we don't have great stats on it. So what are you defending?
    47% C of E, 10% Roman Catholic
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_England
    And almost none of the 47% go to church. I didn't know you were a fan of self-ID :)
    What has that got to do with it? If the C of E was not the established church many would not even identify with it and the Roman Catholic church would again be our largest church.

    Plus of course the end of the Parish system means no automatic right to church weddings or funerals for Parishioners for non church attendees
    The last point is rather the point. I wouldn't rock up to the local Jedi temple and demand a burial if I had never been an active member.

    Unless you think that being a member of the C of E is somehow, erm. 'English' in a way that other religions and non-religions are not.
    As the established church the CofE has an obligation to marry anyone who wants to be married, subject to Canon Law.
    What's wrong with the registry office? Strip religions of any marriage powers and keep it in the hands of the state. It's a legal contract (and always was in Scotland, not a religious sacrament).
    Some people don't want a drab dull registry office, they want a wedding in a beautiful historic Medieval Parish Church of England church in a traditional English village, even if they are not that religious.

    Only having an established church gives them that opportunity automatically as of right as Parishioners
    Not 100% correct. They are still subject to Canon Law. So not automatically.
    Engaged couples can be married in any Church of England church if they meet just one of these criteria, which include residence:

    one of them was baptised or prepared for confirmation in the parish;
    one of them has ever lived in the parish for six months or more;
    one of them has at any time regularly attended public worship in the parish for six months or more;
    one of their parents has lived in the parish for six months or more in their child's lifetime;
    one of their parents has regularly attended public worship there for six months or more in their child's lifetime;
    their parents or grandparents were married in the parish.

    Virtually nobody ever objects to weddings under Marriage Banns now
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Macron looks like an effeminate, highly arrogant young man wearisomely forced to lecture his plodding, if well meaning mother, for the umpteenth time, and unable to conceal his abiding, slightly sinister contempt for her

    No wonder he wins, it is the repeat of his marriage



    More poison please Sean. You’re losing your touch.
    I am not Sean, you creepy Swedish boy-scout-guide with your weird keen-ness on manly nude lake bathing
    What's creepy about some good manly nude lake bathing?
    Aren't some of Leon's best customers, flint-wise, also avid AND manly nude lake bathers?
This discussion has been closed.