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We have crossover in the “Next PM” betting – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,700
edited April 2022 in General
imageWe have crossover in the “Next PM” betting – politicalbetting.com

By any measure this has been a bad week for the Chancellor. His big statement and some basic PR stumbles have seen punters move away from the former hot favourite and Starmer now tops the market by default. Rishi simply hasn’t looked like Number 10 material with things like the ludicrous picture of him trying to fill up a small Kia car with petrol when it turned out that the shot was not new but taken some time ago.

Read the full story here

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  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,338
    edited March 2022
    Completely agree with Mike on this. I laid Sunak several months back at a very good profit. The odds on Starmer remain very attractive.

    Meanwhile across the Irish Sea it is beginning to look possible that Sinn Fein will win most seats in the Stormont elections on May 5th, meaning the first ever Sinn Fein First Minister of Northern Ireland. I was lampooned by a couple of people for suggesting this might happen but it's now a real possibility.

    You can get 2/1 on a Irish unification before 01/01/24 with Betfair which I'm probably not tempted by as it's too soon (I think) but the chances of it happening in our lifetimes are immeasurably closer. I was told that this was no big deal. Well it is a big deal. A seismic shift in United Kingdom politics. The seeds of this go back a long way but there's no doubt that Boris Johnson's sell-out of Northern Ireland provides the immediate catalyst. He sacrificed the union for his own political aspirations.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/26/boris-johnson-urged-trigger-article-16-expert-warns-irish-nationalists/

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/03/14/news/-big-shift-election-could-have-major-ramifications-for-stormont-and-constitutional-question-says-nicholas-whyte-2613702/
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,408
    Second.

    It’s still possible the Tories come to their senses before the GE.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,047
    IanB2 said:

    Second.

    It’s still possible the Tories come to their senses before the GE.

    Third. There'll need to be a palace (or kennel, see Big Dog) revolution for that! And, TBH, I don't see that happening.
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,338
    edited March 2022
    IanB2 said:

    Second.

    It’s still possible the Tories come to their senses before the GE.

    As in ditching Boris?

    I think Labour would be delighted to be up against Sunak who, as Mike illustrated, is a completely out of touch billionaire investment banker: about the least attractive profession during this terrible cost of living squeeze.

    So if not Sunak, whom? Liz Truss would be made mincemeat. She's completely out of her depth, however much the Daily Express or Telegraph want to channel the spirit of Maggie through her.

    To whom else could they turn? Michael Gove? Loathed by most people. Jeremy Hunt? Better but still loathed. Priti Patel? Loathed.

    Who? With Sunak fading I can't see it happening now. They missed their chance and I'm convinced the people will punish them at the polls.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,793
    Heathener said:

    Completely agree with Mike on this. I laid Sunak several months back at a very good profit. The odds on Starmer remain very attractive.

    Meanwhile across the Irish Sea it is beginning to look possible that Sinn Fein will win most seats in the Stormont elections on May 5th, meaning the first ever Sinn Fein First Minister of Northern Ireland. I was lampooned by a couple of people for suggesting this might happen but it's now a real possibility.

    You can get 2/1 on a Irish unification before 01/01/24 with Betfair which I'm probably not tempted by as it's too soon (I think) but the chances of it happening in our lifetimes are immeasurably closer. I was told that this was no big deal. Well it is a big deal. A seismic shift in United Kingdom politics. The seeds of this go back a long way but there's no doubt that Boris Johnson's sell-out of Northern Ireland provides the immediate catalyst. He sacrificed the union for his own political aspirations.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/26/boris-johnson-urged-trigger-article-16-expert-warns-irish-nationalists/

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/03/14/news/-big-shift-election-could-have-major-ramifications-for-stormont-and-constitutional-question-says-nicholas-whyte-2613702/

    2/1 on Irish unification seems rather short in that time frame. It is looking increasingly likely over time though.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,047
    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Second.

    It’s still possible the Tories come to their senses before the GE.

    As in ditching Boris?

    I think Labour would be delighted to be up against Sunak who, as Mike illustrated, is a completely out of touch billionaire investment banker: about the least attractive profession during this terrible cost of living squeeze.

    So if not Sunak, whom? Liz Truss would be made mincemeat. She's completely out of her depth, however much the Daily Express or Telegraph want to channel the spirit of Maggie through her.

    To whom else could they turn? Michael Gove? Loathed by most people. Jeremy Hunt? Better but still loathed. Priti Patel? Loathed.

    Who? With Sunak fading I can't see it happening now. They missed their chance and I'm convinced the people will punish them at the polls.
    While I generally agree, I don't think Jeremy Hunt is 'loathed'. And quite a few people I know who have met Priti Patel 'like' her on a personal basis.
    She can't meet everyone, of course.
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,082
    Heathener said:

    Completely agree with Mike on this. I laid Sunak several months back at a very good profit. The odds on Starmer remain very attractive.

    Meanwhile across the Irish Sea it is beginning to look possible that Sinn Fein will win most seats in the Stormont elections on May 5th, meaning the first ever Sinn Fein First Minister of Northern Ireland. I was lampooned by a couple of people for suggesting this might happen but it's now a real possibility.

    You can get 2/1 on a Irish unification before 01/01/24 with Betfair which I'm probably not tempted by as it's too soon (I think) but the chances of it happening in our lifetimes are immeasurably closer. I was told that this was no big deal. Well it is a big deal. A seismic shift in United Kingdom politics. The seeds of this go back a long way but there's no doubt that Boris Johnson's sell-out of Northern Ireland provides the immediate catalyst. He sacrificed the union for his own political aspirations.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/26/boris-johnson-urged-trigger-article-16-expert-warns-irish-nationalists/

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/03/14/news/-big-shift-election-could-have-major-ramifications-for-stormont-and-constitutional-question-says-nicholas-whyte-2613702/

    Trying to stir up trouble again

    Shame your horse is losing
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,904
    From Dishi Rishi, to Rishi Washy, to all washed up in record time. Impressive.
  • Options
    TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    edited March 2022
    Foxy said:

    ping said:

    I just lost an hour.

    It disappeared.

    I want it back!

    You can have it back in October.
    When I went around to the corner to our local shop to buy a paper the shop was open spot on time but the delightful Indian lady there hadn't been aware of the time shift because all her time pieces had automatically updated. Are we becoming subservient to computers?
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,513

    IanB2 said:

    Second.

    It’s still possible the Tories come to their senses before the GE.

    Third. There'll need to be a palace (or kennel, see Big Dog) revolution for that! And, TBH, I don't see that happening.
    It is still possible, though perhaps less likely, that Boris will choose to retire before the election, especially if he looks like losing.
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,549
    Jonathan said:

    From Dishi Rishi, to Rishi Washy, to all washed up in record time. Impressive.

    The big clue that Rishi wasn't all that was his appointment as CofE.

    Most of Bozza's appointments have been freaks or weaklings so as to not be a threat to him personally.

    Situations like now (lack of a plausible replacement saves Big Dog) help explain why.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,893
    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Completely agree with Mike on this. I laid Sunak several months back at a very good profit. The odds on Starmer remain very attractive.

    Meanwhile across the Irish Sea it is beginning to look possible that Sinn Fein will win most seats in the Stormont elections on May 5th, meaning the first ever Sinn Fein First Minister of Northern Ireland. I was lampooned by a couple of people for suggesting this might happen but it's now a real possibility.

    You can get 2/1 on a Irish unification before 01/01/24 with Betfair which I'm probably not tempted by as it's too soon (I think) but the chances of it happening in our lifetimes are immeasurably closer. I was told that this was no big deal. Well it is a big deal. A seismic shift in United Kingdom politics. The seeds of this go back a long way but there's no doubt that Boris Johnson's sell-out of Northern Ireland provides the immediate catalyst. He sacrificed the union for his own political aspirations.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/26/boris-johnson-urged-trigger-article-16-expert-warns-irish-nationalists/

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/03/14/news/-big-shift-election-could-have-major-ramifications-for-stormont-and-constitutional-question-says-nicholas-whyte-2613702/

    2/1 on Irish unification seems rather short in that time frame. It is looking increasingly likely over time though.
    Hmm. Current Tory attitude to Scottish indyref is "who cares if there is a majority of votes and seats for pro-indy, pro-referendum parties? We still say no, we won't let you even have a democratic referendum". Which will be that much harder to justify if the Nirish get one on exactly that basis. Unless they argue that NI is somehow different from the rest of the UK, which is precisely what they have been denying all along while mishandling this aspect of Brexit ...
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,338

    Heathener said:

    Completely agree with Mike on this. I laid Sunak several months back at a very good profit. The odds on Starmer remain very attractive.

    Meanwhile across the Irish Sea it is beginning to look possible that Sinn Fein will win most seats in the Stormont elections on May 5th, meaning the first ever Sinn Fein First Minister of Northern Ireland. I was lampooned by a couple of people for suggesting this might happen but it's now a real possibility.

    You can get 2/1 on a Irish unification before 01/01/24 with Betfair which I'm probably not tempted by as it's too soon (I think) but the chances of it happening in our lifetimes are immeasurably closer. I was told that this was no big deal. Well it is a big deal. A seismic shift in United Kingdom politics. The seeds of this go back a long way but there's no doubt that Boris Johnson's sell-out of Northern Ireland provides the immediate catalyst. He sacrificed the union for his own political aspirations.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/26/boris-johnson-urged-trigger-article-16-expert-warns-irish-nationalists/

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/03/14/news/-big-shift-election-could-have-major-ramifications-for-stormont-and-constitutional-question-says-nicholas-whyte-2613702/

    Trying to stir up trouble again

    Shame your horse is losing
    This trope is getting tiresome for most people who accept that I am not a troll. It's a pity you are incapable of addressing the issues and this one is a serious issue and the link is from the Daily Telegraph.

    So try to grow up and get a life.
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,338
    Toms said:

    Foxy said:

    ping said:

    I just lost an hour.

    It disappeared.

    I want it back!

    You can have it back in October.
    When I went around to the corner to our local shop to buy a paper the shop was open spot on time but the delightful Indian lady there hadn't been aware of the time shift because all her time pieces had automatically updated. Are we becoming subservient to computers?
    There's a mildly amusing article in the Guardian in a similar vein about someone who refuses to follow BST:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/26/britain-clocks-go-forward-eu-us-hour-changes

    They do make some good points. We play with clocks but perhaps the one we should pay more attention to is our body clock not online social or societal clocks? Is it just another means of control?
  • Options
    TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    Heathener said:

    Toms said:

    Foxy said:

    ping said:

    I just lost an hour.

    It disappeared.

    I want it back!

    You can have it back in October.
    When I went around to the corner to our local shop to buy a paper the shop was open spot on time but the delightful Indian lady there hadn't been aware of the time shift because all her time pieces had automatically updated. Are we becoming subservient to computers?
    There's a mildly amusing article in the Guardian in a similar vein about someone who refuses to follow BST:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/26/britain-clocks-go-forward-eu-us-hour-changes

    They do make some good points. We play with clocks but perhaps the one we should pay more attention to is our body clock not online social or societal clocks? Is it just another means of control?
    My body clock gets me up so early I hardly noticed the change.

    I believe that in Gulliver's Travels the Lilliputians thought his pocket watch was his god because he had told them that he consulted it before he did anything.
  • Options
    Good morning

    I have to agree Rishi failed to address mitigation for the poorest in our society and has attracted justifiable criticism, not least from within his own party

    As far as Boris is concerned it does look more likely he will lead into GE24 though as others have suggested he may decide to move on if Ukraine and Russia make peace

    Boris successor is entirely in the hands of his mps and the membership and as stated I will rejoin when Boris goes and support whoever is chosen

    Of course opponents of the conservative party will put their own negative opinions on various candidates but to be fair that is no different to the same happening to labour from their opponents

    I would suggest that no matter what happens to Boris, he will have the legacy of dealing with brexit, covid, and war in Europe all within 2 years of gaining office, major issues which are unrivalled in modern history

    I would affirm also for those interested, for the first time I will not be voting for the conservative in May and expect a suitable comment from @ HYUFD on the grounds I was never a conservative anyway
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,338
    Toms said:

    Heathener said:

    Toms said:

    Foxy said:

    ping said:

    I just lost an hour.

    It disappeared.

    I want it back!

    You can have it back in October.
    When I went around to the corner to our local shop to buy a paper the shop was open spot on time but the delightful Indian lady there hadn't been aware of the time shift because all her time pieces had automatically updated. Are we becoming subservient to computers?
    There's a mildly amusing article in the Guardian in a similar vein about someone who refuses to follow BST:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/26/britain-clocks-go-forward-eu-us-hour-changes

    They do make some good points. We play with clocks but perhaps the one we should pay more attention to is our body clock not online social or societal clocks? Is it just another means of control?
    My body clock gets me up so early I hardly noticed the change.

    I believe that in Gulliver's Travels the Lilliputians thought his pocket watch was his god because he had told them that he consulted it before he did anything.
    Really interesting. Thanks for this reminder!

    I frequently mention Ben Fogle's New Lives in the Wild, to which I kind-of aspire. There's a particular favourite of mine with a chap called Mark in Ireland. Mark has stopped using timepieces altogether and lives by body clock according to day-night rhythmns.

    Apart from when Mark goes to the pub, which somehow feels incongruous, it's an episode I really enjoy:

    https://www.channel5.com/show/ben-fogle-new-lives-in-the-wild/season-13/episode-5

  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,779
    edited March 2022
    Fascinating chart. Thatcher really hated poor people but loved the rich. Blair was head and shoulders above any other recent prime minister (shame about Iraq). Major also good. Johnson is the worst.



    https://mobile.twitter.com/DuncanWeldon/status/1507412767707627520
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,513

    Jonathan said:

    From Dishi Rishi, to Rishi Washy, to all washed up in record time. Impressive.

    The big clue that Rishi wasn't all that was his appointment as CofE.

    Most of Bozza's appointments have been freaks or weaklings so as to not be a threat to him personally.

    Situations like now (lack of a plausible replacement saves Big Dog) help explain why.
    Cabinet ministers were also chosen to act as human shields, for instance against charges of racism or misogyny that have been levelled at Boris in the past, and prominent Brexiteers such as Gove or JRM of the ERG because people suspect, possibly rightly, that Boris was a Remainer posing as a Leaver for his own advantage.

    In Rishi's case, we must also remember he was foisted on Boris when The Saj showed too much backbone for Dominic Cummings.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,793
    edited March 2022

    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Second.

    It’s still possible the Tories come to their senses before the GE.

    As in ditching Boris?

    I think Labour would be delighted to be up against Sunak who, as Mike illustrated, is a completely out of touch billionaire investment banker: about the least attractive profession during this terrible cost of living squeeze.

    So if not Sunak, whom? Liz Truss would be made mincemeat. She's completely out of her depth, however much the Daily Express or Telegraph want to channel the spirit of Maggie through her.

    To whom else could they turn? Michael Gove? Loathed by most people. Jeremy Hunt? Better but still loathed. Priti Patel? Loathed.

    Who? With Sunak fading I can't see it happening now. They missed their chance and I'm convinced the people will punish them at the polls.
    While I generally agree, I don't think Jeremy Hunt is 'loathed'. And quite a few people I know who have met Priti Patel 'like' her on a personal basis.
    She can't meet everyone, of course.
    Priti at -59 on Yougov favourability. Makes even "eat nowt to help out" Sunak look good:


  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,176
    Morning haar burned off already. Nice day ahead.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,893
    geoffw said:

    Morning haar burned off already. Nice day ahead.

    WE had a radiation frost further inland, but already a lovely sunny day.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,779
    I think Johnson will be happy with Sunak's Spring Statement.

    Job done. No further threats to his premiership.
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,338
    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Second.

    It’s still possible the Tories come to their senses before the GE.

    As in ditching Boris?

    I think Labour would be delighted to be up against Sunak who, as Mike illustrated, is a completely out of touch billionaire investment banker: about the least attractive profession during this terrible cost of living squeeze.

    So if not Sunak, whom? Liz Truss would be made mincemeat. She's completely out of her depth, however much the Daily Express or Telegraph want to channel the spirit of Maggie through her.

    To whom else could they turn? Michael Gove? Loathed by most people. Jeremy Hunt? Better but still loathed. Priti Patel? Loathed.

    Who? With Sunak fading I can't see it happening now. They missed their chance and I'm convinced the people will punish them at the polls.
    While I generally agree, I don't think Jeremy Hunt is 'loathed'. And quite a few people I know who have met Priti Patel 'like' her on a personal basis.
    She can't meet everyone, of course.
    Priti at -59 on Yougov favourability. Makes even "eat nowt to help out" Sunak look good:


    At the risk ... oh fuck it I'll just do it ... people I know who have to work under her say she's a psycho. Just awful, horrible, piece of shit.

    Jeremy Hunt really isn't much liked. He may come across as cerebrally sensible but he's so stiff and when in cabinet he was the most disliked politician in Britian, and by some margin: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-hunt-is-the-most-disliked-frontline-british-politician-of-any-party-a-new-poll-shows-a6874846.html

    I like Penny Mordaunt but can't see the Conservative Party being sensible enough to choose someone like her. And I don't think they will go for another woman for a while after their vicious treatment of Theresa May. (Waits for the old white men to pile on this comment!!!!!)
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,338
    FF43 said:

    I think Johnson will be happy with Sunak's Spring Statement.

    Job done. No further threats to his premiership.

    Yes interesting. There are stories leaking almost daily about rifts between 10 and 11. I wonder if they are coming from the PM's office? It would suit him I think as part of a strategy to scapegoat Sunak and give him the ruthless Boris Johnson treatment. (Not that I'm defending Sunak either.)
  • Options
    Toms said:

    Heathener said:

    Toms said:

    Foxy said:

    ping said:

    I just lost an hour.

    It disappeared.

    I want it back!

    You can have it back in October.
    When I went around to the corner to our local shop to buy a paper the shop was open spot on time but the delightful Indian lady there hadn't been aware of the time shift because all her time pieces had automatically updated. Are we becoming subservient to computers?
    There's a mildly amusing article in the Guardian in a similar vein about someone who refuses to follow BST:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/26/britain-clocks-go-forward-eu-us-hour-changes

    They do make some good points. We play with clocks but perhaps the one we should pay more attention to is our body clock not online social or societal clocks? Is it just another means of control?
    My body clock gets me up so early I hardly noticed the change.

    I believe that in Gulliver's Travels the Lilliputians thought his pocket watch was his god because he had told them that he consulted it before he did anything.
    In the sixties our family ran a newsagents and grocery business and I rose every morning at 4.30am, and ever since I wake by 5.00am no matter whether I am at home or anywhere in the world
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,893
    Re the PBTory who asserted the other day that Britain abolished slavery 200 years ago ... yet contract nurses' and careworkers' conditions, for overseas workers, violate the UKG's own modern slavery policy. Including those working in the NHS (not just agencies it seems). Because they have to pay £££ to leave.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/mar/27/trapped-and-destitute-how-foreign-nurses-uk-dreams-turned-sour

    'The Institute for Human Rights and Business (IHRB), said that, as with all jobs, there was a “normal rate of attrition” involved with hiring from overseas that employers had to factor in. “Companies have to accept that as a business cost,” Neill Wilkins, head of the IHRB migrant workers programme said. “The British government’s own modern slavery statement says recruitment costs should be borne not by workers but by employers.”'

  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,779
    FF43 said:

    I think Johnson will be happy with Sunak's Spring Statement.

    Job done. No further threats to his premiership.

    Should say I regret this. I prefer an incompetent and normally honest politician over an incompetent and egregiously dishonest one.
  • Options
    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,244
    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Completely agree with Mike on this. I laid Sunak several months back at a very good profit. The odds on Starmer remain very attractive.

    Meanwhile across the Irish Sea it is beginning to look possible that Sinn Fein will win most seats in the Stormont elections on May 5th, meaning the first ever Sinn Fein First Minister of Northern Ireland. I was lampooned by a couple of people for suggesting this might happen but it's now a real possibility.

    You can get 2/1 on a Irish unification before 01/01/24 with Betfair which I'm probably not tempted by as it's too soon (I think) but the chances of it happening in our lifetimes are immeasurably closer. I was told that this was no big deal. Well it is a big deal. A seismic shift in United Kingdom politics. The seeds of this go back a long way but there's no doubt that Boris Johnson's sell-out of Northern Ireland provides the immediate catalyst. He sacrificed the union for his own political aspirations.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/26/boris-johnson-urged-trigger-article-16-expert-warns-irish-nationalists/

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/03/14/news/-big-shift-election-could-have-major-ramifications-for-stormont-and-constitutional-question-says-nicholas-whyte-2613702/

    Trying to stir up trouble again

    Shame your horse is losing
    This trope is getting tiresome for most people who accept that I am not a troll. It's a pity you are incapable of addressing the issues and this one is a serious issue and the link is from the Daily Telegraph.

    So try to grow up and get a life.
    Why don’t you try crawling back to your cave. That’s where trolls belong. You’re boss’s megalomaniac war is failing, your pathetic amateurish brand of fascism is done. And we can now all see through your weak attempts to needle wounds and stir division. It won’t work.
  • Options
    Heathener said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Second.

    It’s still possible the Tories come to their senses before the GE.

    As in ditching Boris?

    I think Labour would be delighted to be up against Sunak who, as Mike illustrated, is a completely out of touch billionaire investment banker: about the least attractive profession during this terrible cost of living squeeze.

    So if not Sunak, whom? Liz Truss would be made mincemeat. She's completely out of her depth, however much the Daily Express or Telegraph want to channel the spirit of Maggie through her.

    To whom else could they turn? Michael Gove? Loathed by most people. Jeremy Hunt? Better but still loathed. Priti Patel? Loathed.

    Who? With Sunak fading I can't see it happening now. They missed their chance and I'm convinced the people will punish them at the polls.
    While I generally agree, I don't think Jeremy Hunt is 'loathed'. And quite a few people I know who have met Priti Patel 'like' her on a personal basis.
    She can't meet everyone, of course.
    Priti at -59 on Yougov favourability. Makes even "eat nowt to help out" Sunak look good:


    At the risk ... oh fuck it I'll just do it ... people I know who have to work under her say she's a psycho. Just awful, horrible, piece of shit.

    Jeremy Hunt really isn't much liked. He may come across as cerebrally sensible but he's so stiff and when in cabinet he was the most disliked politician in Britian, and by some margin: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-hunt-is-the-most-disliked-frontline-british-politician-of-any-party-a-new-poll-shows-a6874846.html

    I like Penny Mordaunt but can't see the Conservative Party being sensible enough to choose someone like her. And I don't think they will go for another woman for a while after their vicious treatment of Theresa May. (Waits for the old white men to pile on this comment!!!!!)
    You seem to think we care about your witterings

  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,793
    FF43 said:

    Fascinating chart. Thatcher really hated poor people but loved the rich. Blair was head and shoulders above any other recent prime minister (shame about Iraq). Major also good. Johnson is the worst.



    https://mobile.twitter.com/DuncanWeldon/status/1507412767707627520

    That is a great chart. Those red lines and thin blue line for the top and bottom 5% are quite something through the years.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,137
    Carnyx said:

    geoffw said:

    Morning haar burned off already. Nice day ahead.

    WE had a radiation frost further inland
    Did I sleep through Putin's first strike?

    Heathener will be pleased.....
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,137
    moonshine said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Completely agree with Mike on this. I laid Sunak several months back at a very good profit. The odds on Starmer remain very attractive.

    Meanwhile across the Irish Sea it is beginning to look possible that Sinn Fein will win most seats in the Stormont elections on May 5th, meaning the first ever Sinn Fein First Minister of Northern Ireland. I was lampooned by a couple of people for suggesting this might happen but it's now a real possibility.

    You can get 2/1 on a Irish unification before 01/01/24 with Betfair which I'm probably not tempted by as it's too soon (I think) but the chances of it happening in our lifetimes are immeasurably closer. I was told that this was no big deal. Well it is a big deal. A seismic shift in United Kingdom politics. The seeds of this go back a long way but there's no doubt that Boris Johnson's sell-out of Northern Ireland provides the immediate catalyst. He sacrificed the union for his own political aspirations.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/26/boris-johnson-urged-trigger-article-16-expert-warns-irish-nationalists/

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/03/14/news/-big-shift-election-could-have-major-ramifications-for-stormont-and-constitutional-question-says-nicholas-whyte-2613702/

    Trying to stir up trouble again

    Shame your horse is losing
    This trope is getting tiresome for most people who accept that I am not a troll. It's a pity you are incapable of addressing the issues and this one is a serious issue and the link is from the Daily Telegraph.

    So try to grow up and get a life.
    Why don’t you try crawling back to your cave. That’s where trolls belong. You’re boss’s megalomaniac war is failing, your pathetic amateurish brand of fascism is done. And we can now all see through your weak attempts to needle wounds and stir division. It won’t work.
    Indeed. Point and laugh at the troll, point and laugh at the troll.....

    "She" is as subtle as a turd in a punchbowl.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,130
    Not only has Starmer now overtaken Sunak in the next PM betting, so Ben Wallace has overtaken Sunak as most popular Cabinet Minister with the public and on ConHome on a net favourable basis.

    So not only is Boris relatively secure as PM until the next general election, even if Starmer is still narrow favourite to win that general election, Sunak also faces a threat from Ben Wallace now as well as Truss to be next Tory leader
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,130
    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Second.

    It’s still possible the Tories come to their senses before the GE.

    As in ditching Boris?

    I think Labour would be delighted to be up against Sunak who, as Mike illustrated, is a completely out of touch billionaire investment banker: about the least attractive profession during this terrible cost of living squeeze.

    So if not Sunak, whom? Liz Truss would be made mincemeat. She's completely out of her depth, however much the Daily Express or Telegraph want to channel the spirit of Maggie through her.

    To whom else could they turn? Michael Gove? Loathed by most people. Jeremy Hunt? Better but still loathed. Priti Patel? Loathed.

    Who? With Sunak fading I can't see it happening now. They missed their chance and I'm convinced the people will punish them at the polls.
    While I generally agree, I don't think Jeremy Hunt is 'loathed'. And quite a few people I know who have met Priti Patel 'like' her on a personal basis.
    She can't meet everyone, of course.
    Priti at -59 on Yougov favourability. Makes even "eat nowt to help out" Sunak look good:


    Ben Wallace now the man to beat if and when Boris goes
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,779

    moonshine said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Completely agree with Mike on this. I laid Sunak several months back at a very good profit. The odds on Starmer remain very attractive.

    Meanwhile across the Irish Sea it is beginning to look possible that Sinn Fein will win most seats in the Stormont elections on May 5th, meaning the first ever Sinn Fein First Minister of Northern Ireland. I was lampooned by a couple of people for suggesting this might happen but it's now a real possibility.

    You can get 2/1 on a Irish unification before 01/01/24 with Betfair which I'm probably not tempted by as it's too soon (I think) but the chances of it happening in our lifetimes are immeasurably closer. I was told that this was no big deal. Well it is a big deal. A seismic shift in United Kingdom politics. The seeds of this go back a long way but there's no doubt that Boris Johnson's sell-out of Northern Ireland provides the immediate catalyst. He sacrificed the union for his own political aspirations.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/26/boris-johnson-urged-trigger-article-16-expert-warns-irish-nationalists/

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/03/14/news/-big-shift-election-could-have-major-ramifications-for-stormont-and-constitutional-question-says-nicholas-whyte-2613702/

    Trying to stir up trouble again

    Shame your horse is losing
    This trope is getting tiresome for most people who accept that I am not a troll. It's a pity you are incapable of addressing the issues and this one is a serious issue and the link is from the Daily Telegraph.

    So try to grow up and get a life.
    Why don’t you try crawling back to your cave. That’s where trolls belong. You’re boss’s megalomaniac war is failing, your pathetic amateurish brand of fascism is done. And we can now all see through your weak attempts to needle wounds and stir division. It won’t work.
    Indeed. Point and laugh at the troll, point and laugh at the troll.....

    "She" is as subtle as a turd in a punchbowl.
    Off the scale nastiness on here this morning.
  • Options
    TomsToms Posts: 2,478

    Carnyx said:

    geoffw said:

    Morning haar burned off already. Nice day ahead.

    WE had a radiation frost further inland
    Did I sleep through Putin's first strike?

    Heathener will be pleased.....
    As I (mis)quoted before:
    Der Putin ist wie ein Kinderhemd---kurz und beschissen.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,130
    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Completely agree with Mike on this. I laid Sunak several months back at a very good profit. The odds on Starmer remain very attractive.

    Meanwhile across the Irish Sea it is beginning to look possible that Sinn Fein will win most seats in the Stormont elections on May 5th, meaning the first ever Sinn Fein First Minister of Northern Ireland. I was lampooned by a couple of people for suggesting this might happen but it's now a real possibility.

    You can get 2/1 on a Irish unification before 01/01/24 with Betfair which I'm probably not tempted by as it's too soon (I think) but the chances of it happening in our lifetimes are immeasurably closer. I was told that this was no big deal. Well it is a big deal. A seismic shift in United Kingdom politics. The seeds of this go back a long way but there's no doubt that Boris Johnson's sell-out of Northern Ireland provides the immediate catalyst. He sacrificed the union for his own political aspirations.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/26/boris-johnson-urged-trigger-article-16-expert-warns-irish-nationalists/

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/03/14/news/-big-shift-election-could-have-major-ramifications-for-stormont-and-constitutional-question-says-nicholas-whyte-2613702/

    2/1 on Irish unification seems rather short in that time frame. It is looking increasingly likely over time though.
    Hmm. Current Tory attitude to Scottish indyref is "who cares if there is a majority of votes and seats for pro-indy, pro-referendum parties? We still say no, we won't let you even have a democratic referendum". Which will be that much harder to justify if the Nirish get one on exactly that basis. Unless they argue that NI is somehow different from the rest of the UK, which is precisely what they have been denying all along while mishandling this aspect of Brexit ...
    It won't as long as Unionist parties combined continue to win more seats and votes at Stormont than Nationalist parties.

    That automatically gives the NI Secretary grounds to refuse a border poll.

    In terms of Scotland Nationalist parties ie the SNP and Green may have a majority at Holyrood unlike Nationalist parties at Stormont but the UK government can refuse an indyref2 without needing any grounds under the Scotland Act 1998, as this Tory government will continue to do. The GFA terms do not apply to Scotland
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,513
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Second.

    It’s still possible the Tories come to their senses before the GE.

    As in ditching Boris?

    I think Labour would be delighted to be up against Sunak who, as Mike illustrated, is a completely out of touch billionaire investment banker: about the least attractive profession during this terrible cost of living squeeze.

    So if not Sunak, whom? Liz Truss would be made mincemeat. She's completely out of her depth, however much the Daily Express or Telegraph want to channel the spirit of Maggie through her.

    To whom else could they turn? Michael Gove? Loathed by most people. Jeremy Hunt? Better but still loathed. Priti Patel? Loathed.

    Who? With Sunak fading I can't see it happening now. They missed their chance and I'm convinced the people will punish them at the polls.
    While I generally agree, I don't think Jeremy Hunt is 'loathed'. And quite a few people I know who have met Priti Patel 'like' her on a personal basis.
    She can't meet everyone, of course.
    Priti at -59 on Yougov favourability. Makes even "eat nowt to help out" Sunak look good:


    Ben Wallace now the man to beat if and when Boris goes
    Ben Wallace scores 63 per cent on the "don't know" scale so let's not break out the bunting just yet.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,062
    Carnyx said:

    geoffw said:

    Morning haar burned off already. Nice day ahead.

    WE had a radiation frost further inland, but already a lovely sunny day.
    Just brilliant sunshine yet again on west coast
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,130
    edited March 2022
    Heathener said:

    Completely agree with Mike on this. I laid Sunak several months back at a very good profit. The odds on Starmer remain very attractive.

    Meanwhile across the Irish Sea it is beginning to look possible that Sinn Fein will win most seats in the Stormont elections on May 5th, meaning the first ever Sinn Fein First Minister of Northern Ireland. I was lampooned by a couple of people for suggesting this might happen but it's now a real possibility.

    You can get 2/1 on a Irish unification before 01/01/24 with Betfair which I'm probably not tempted by as it's too soon (I think) but the chances of it happening in our lifetimes are immeasurably closer. I was told that this was no big deal. Well it is a big deal. A seismic shift in United Kingdom politics. The seeds of this go back a long way but there's no doubt that Boris Johnson's sell-out of Northern Ireland provides the immediate catalyst. He sacrificed the union for his own political aspirations.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/26/boris-johnson-urged-trigger-article-16-expert-warns-irish-nationalists/

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/03/14/news/-big-shift-election-could-have-major-ramifications-for-stormont-and-constitutional-question-says-nicholas-whyte-2613702/

    That is rubbish. It was the EU who demanded a border in the Irish Sea for a trade deal, Boris could have imposed a hard border in Ireland and gone to No Deal but then you would have whinged about that too.

    As for NI, only last week a bomb threat was made by the loyalist UVF against Simon Coveney, the Irish Foreign Minister, on his visit to Belfast last week. While obviously that should be condemned, the idea loyalists in Unionist dominated areas of NI like East Belfast and East Londonderry and county Antrim will peacefully settle into a United Ireland is absurd. It would just be the Troubles all over again, except mainly from the loyalist rather than nationalist side.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-60875251

    Hence Boris is considering invoking Article 16, as too much effort was made in the trade talks on the EU side on appeasing nationalists with no hard border in Ireland while ignoring loyalists who did not want a border in the Irish Sea



  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,062
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Second.

    It’s still possible the Tories come to their senses before the GE.

    As in ditching Boris?

    I think Labour would be delighted to be up against Sunak who, as Mike illustrated, is a completely out of touch billionaire investment banker: about the least attractive profession during this terrible cost of living squeeze.

    So if not Sunak, whom? Liz Truss would be made mincemeat. She's completely out of her depth, however much the Daily Express or Telegraph want to channel the spirit of Maggie through her.

    To whom else could they turn? Michael Gove? Loathed by most people. Jeremy Hunt? Better but still loathed. Priti Patel? Loathed.

    Who? With Sunak fading I can't see it happening now. They missed their chance and I'm convinced the people will punish them at the polls.
    While I generally agree, I don't think Jeremy Hunt is 'loathed'. And quite a few people I know who have met Priti Patel 'like' her on a personal basis.
    She can't meet everyone, of course.
    Priti at -59 on Yougov favourability. Makes even "eat nowt to help out" Sunak look good:


    Ben Wallace now the man to beat if and when Boris goes
    They must be running out of 3 legged donkeys, be done to the bog cleaners soon
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,893
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Completely agree with Mike on this. I laid Sunak several months back at a very good profit. The odds on Starmer remain very attractive.

    Meanwhile across the Irish Sea it is beginning to look possible that Sinn Fein will win most seats in the Stormont elections on May 5th, meaning the first ever Sinn Fein First Minister of Northern Ireland. I was lampooned by a couple of people for suggesting this might happen but it's now a real possibility.

    You can get 2/1 on a Irish unification before 01/01/24 with Betfair which I'm probably not tempted by as it's too soon (I think) but the chances of it happening in our lifetimes are immeasurably closer. I was told that this was no big deal. Well it is a big deal. A seismic shift in United Kingdom politics. The seeds of this go back a long way but there's no doubt that Boris Johnson's sell-out of Northern Ireland provides the immediate catalyst. He sacrificed the union for his own political aspirations.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/26/boris-johnson-urged-trigger-article-16-expert-warns-irish-nationalists/

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/03/14/news/-big-shift-election-could-have-major-ramifications-for-stormont-and-constitutional-question-says-nicholas-whyte-2613702/

    2/1 on Irish unification seems rather short in that time frame. It is looking increasingly likely over time though.
    Hmm. Current Tory attitude to Scottish indyref is "who cares if there is a majority of votes and seats for pro-indy, pro-referendum parties? We still say no, we won't let you even have a democratic referendum". Which will be that much harder to justify if the Nirish get one on exactly that basis. Unless they argue that NI is somehow different from the rest of the UK, which is precisely what they have been denying all along while mishandling this aspect of Brexit ...
    It won't as long as Unionist parties combined continue to win more seats and votes at Stormont than Nationalist parties.

    That automatically gives the NI Secretary grounds to refuse a border poll.

    In terms of Scotland Nationalist parties ie the SNP and Green may have a majority at Holyrood unlike Nationalist parties at Stormont but the UK government can refuse an indyref2 without needing any grounds under the Scotland Act 1998, as this Tory government will continue to do. The GFA terms do not apply to Scotland
    "but reasons we made up". You're missing the point completely - the political impact involved.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,130
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Completely agree with Mike on this. I laid Sunak several months back at a very good profit. The odds on Starmer remain very attractive.

    Meanwhile across the Irish Sea it is beginning to look possible that Sinn Fein will win most seats in the Stormont elections on May 5th, meaning the first ever Sinn Fein First Minister of Northern Ireland. I was lampooned by a couple of people for suggesting this might happen but it's now a real possibility.

    You can get 2/1 on a Irish unification before 01/01/24 with Betfair which I'm probably not tempted by as it's too soon (I think) but the chances of it happening in our lifetimes are immeasurably closer. I was told that this was no big deal. Well it is a big deal. A seismic shift in United Kingdom politics. The seeds of this go back a long way but there's no doubt that Boris Johnson's sell-out of Northern Ireland provides the immediate catalyst. He sacrificed the union for his own political aspirations.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/26/boris-johnson-urged-trigger-article-16-expert-warns-irish-nationalists/

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/03/14/news/-big-shift-election-could-have-major-ramifications-for-stormont-and-constitutional-question-says-nicholas-whyte-2613702/

    2/1 on Irish unification seems rather short in that time frame. It is looking increasingly likely over time though.
    Hmm. Current Tory attitude to Scottish indyref is "who cares if there is a majority of votes and seats for pro-indy, pro-referendum parties? We still say no, we won't let you even have a democratic referendum". Which will be that much harder to justify if the Nirish get one on exactly that basis. Unless they argue that NI is somehow different from the rest of the UK, which is precisely what they have been denying all along while mishandling this aspect of Brexit ...
    It won't as long as Unionist parties combined continue to win more seats and votes at Stormont than Nationalist parties.

    That automatically gives the NI Secretary grounds to refuse a border poll.

    In terms of Scotland Nationalist parties ie the SNP and Green may have a majority at Holyrood unlike Nationalist parties at Stormont but the UK government can refuse an indyref2 without needing any grounds under the Scotland Act 1998, as this Tory government will continue to do. The GFA terms do not apply to Scotland
    "but reasons we made up". You're missing the point completely - the political impact involved.
    What political impact. The UK government has correctly stood up to Nationalists and said a firm 'NO'.

    Enough of appeasement of the SNP, this Tory government is rightly ignoring them!
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,002
    Betting Post

    FPT:

    F1: contemplated a lot of potential bets, but in the end went for Alpine to double score at 1.83.

    https://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2022/03/saudi-arabia-pre-race-2022.html
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,296
    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    geoffw said:

    Morning haar burned off already. Nice day ahead.

    WE had a radiation frost further inland, but already a lovely sunny day.
    Just brilliant sunshine yet again on west coast
    Same here in sw Wiltshire. Intend to enjoy, as we are heading back to winter this week.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,130
    edited March 2022
    FF43 said:

    Fascinating chart. Thatcher really hated poor people but loved the rich. Blair was head and shoulders above any other recent prime minister (shame about Iraq). Major also good. Johnson is the worst.



    https://mobile.twitter.com/DuncanWeldon/status/1507412767707627520

    While the rich and poor did badly under Brown. albeit the middle a bit better.

    Wilson, Heath, Callaghan, Blair, Major and Cameron and May as you say saw everyones incomes grow over their premierships.

    Though the biggest growth for everyone was Thatcher 1983-1987 and Blair 1997 to 2001, although Thatcher saw more of that growth go to the rich and Blair saw more of it go to the poor.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,893
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Completely agree with Mike on this. I laid Sunak several months back at a very good profit. The odds on Starmer remain very attractive.

    Meanwhile across the Irish Sea it is beginning to look possible that Sinn Fein will win most seats in the Stormont elections on May 5th, meaning the first ever Sinn Fein First Minister of Northern Ireland. I was lampooned by a couple of people for suggesting this might happen but it's now a real possibility.

    You can get 2/1 on a Irish unification before 01/01/24 with Betfair which I'm probably not tempted by as it's too soon (I think) but the chances of it happening in our lifetimes are immeasurably closer. I was told that this was no big deal. Well it is a big deal. A seismic shift in United Kingdom politics. The seeds of this go back a long way but there's no doubt that Boris Johnson's sell-out of Northern Ireland provides the immediate catalyst. He sacrificed the union for his own political aspirations.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/26/boris-johnson-urged-trigger-article-16-expert-warns-irish-nationalists/

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/03/14/news/-big-shift-election-could-have-major-ramifications-for-stormont-and-constitutional-question-says-nicholas-whyte-2613702/

    2/1 on Irish unification seems rather short in that time frame. It is looking increasingly likely over time though.
    Hmm. Current Tory attitude to Scottish indyref is "who cares if there is a majority of votes and seats for pro-indy, pro-referendum parties? We still say no, we won't let you even have a democratic referendum". Which will be that much harder to justify if the Nirish get one on exactly that basis. Unless they argue that NI is somehow different from the rest of the UK, which is precisely what they have been denying all along while mishandling this aspect of Brexit ...
    It won't as long as Unionist parties combined continue to win more seats and votes at Stormont than Nationalist parties.

    That automatically gives the NI Secretary grounds to refuse a border poll.

    In terms of Scotland Nationalist parties ie the SNP and Green may have a majority at Holyrood unlike Nationalist parties at Stormont but the UK government can refuse an indyref2 without needing any grounds under the Scotland Act 1998, as this Tory government will continue to do. The GFA terms do not apply to Scotland
    "but reasons we made up". You're missing the point completely - the political impact involved.
    What political impact. The UK government has correctly stood up to Nationalists and said a firm 'NO'.

    Enough of appeasement of the SNP, this Tory government is rightly ignoring them!
    So much for democracy.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,062
    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Completely agree with Mike on this. I laid Sunak several months back at a very good profit. The odds on Starmer remain very attractive.

    Meanwhile across the Irish Sea it is beginning to look possible that Sinn Fein will win most seats in the Stormont elections on May 5th, meaning the first ever Sinn Fein First Minister of Northern Ireland. I was lampooned by a couple of people for suggesting this might happen but it's now a real possibility.

    You can get 2/1 on a Irish unification before 01/01/24 with Betfair which I'm probably not tempted by as it's too soon (I think) but the chances of it happening in our lifetimes are immeasurably closer. I was told that this was no big deal. Well it is a big deal. A seismic shift in United Kingdom politics. The seeds of this go back a long way but there's no doubt that Boris Johnson's sell-out of Northern Ireland provides the immediate catalyst. He sacrificed the union for his own political aspirations.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/26/boris-johnson-urged-trigger-article-16-expert-warns-irish-nationalists/

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/03/14/news/-big-shift-election-could-have-major-ramifications-for-stormont-and-constitutional-question-says-nicholas-whyte-2613702/

    That is rubbish. It was the EU who demanded a border in the Irish Sea for a trade deal, Boris could have imposed a hard border in Ireland and gone to No Deal but then you would have whinged about that too.

    As for NI, only last week a bomb threat was made by the loyalist UVF against Simon Coveney, the Irish Foreign Minister, on his visit to Belfast last week. While obviously that should be condemned, the idea loyalists in Unionist dominated areas of NI like East Belfast and East Londonderry and county Antrim will peacefully settle into a United Ireland is absurd. It would just be the Troubles all over again, except mainly from the loyalist rather than nationalist side.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-60875251

    Hence Boris is considering invoking Article 16, as too much effort was made in the trade talks on the EU side on appeasing nationalists with no hard border in Ireland while ignoring loyalists who did not want a border in the Irish Sea



    That will be fun and solve it all right enough
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,294
    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Completely agree with Mike on this. I laid Sunak several months back at a very good profit. The odds on Starmer remain very attractive.

    Meanwhile across the Irish Sea it is beginning to look possible that Sinn Fein will win most seats in the Stormont elections on May 5th, meaning the first ever Sinn Fein First Minister of Northern Ireland. I was lampooned by a couple of people for suggesting this might happen but it's now a real possibility.

    You can get 2/1 on a Irish unification before 01/01/24 with Betfair which I'm probably not tempted by as it's too soon (I think) but the chances of it happening in our lifetimes are immeasurably closer. I was told that this was no big deal. Well it is a big deal. A seismic shift in United Kingdom politics. The seeds of this go back a long way but there's no doubt that Boris Johnson's sell-out of Northern Ireland provides the immediate catalyst. He sacrificed the union for his own political aspirations.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/26/boris-johnson-urged-trigger-article-16-expert-warns-irish-nationalists/

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/03/14/news/-big-shift-election-could-have-major-ramifications-for-stormont-and-constitutional-question-says-nicholas-whyte-2613702/

    2/1 on Irish unification seems rather short in that time frame. It is looking increasingly likely over time though.
    Hmm. Current Tory attitude to Scottish indyref is "who cares if there is a majority of votes and seats for pro-indy, pro-referendum parties? We still say no, we won't let you even have a democratic referendum". Which will be that much harder to justify if the Nirish get one on exactly that basis. Unless they argue that NI is somehow different from the rest of the UK, which is precisely what they have been denying all along while mishandling this aspect of Brexit ...
    It’s a poor error of judgement on their part and one, I suspect, they will come to regret as it will make Indy more, not less, likely.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,130
    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Completely agree with Mike on this. I laid Sunak several months back at a very good profit. The odds on Starmer remain very attractive.

    Meanwhile across the Irish Sea it is beginning to look possible that Sinn Fein will win most seats in the Stormont elections on May 5th, meaning the first ever Sinn Fein First Minister of Northern Ireland. I was lampooned by a couple of people for suggesting this might happen but it's now a real possibility.

    You can get 2/1 on a Irish unification before 01/01/24 with Betfair which I'm probably not tempted by as it's too soon (I think) but the chances of it happening in our lifetimes are immeasurably closer. I was told that this was no big deal. Well it is a big deal. A seismic shift in United Kingdom politics. The seeds of this go back a long way but there's no doubt that Boris Johnson's sell-out of Northern Ireland provides the immediate catalyst. He sacrificed the union for his own political aspirations.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/26/boris-johnson-urged-trigger-article-16-expert-warns-irish-nationalists/

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/03/14/news/-big-shift-election-could-have-major-ramifications-for-stormont-and-constitutional-question-says-nicholas-whyte-2613702/

    2/1 on Irish unification seems rather short in that time frame. It is looking increasingly likely over time though.
    Hmm. Current Tory attitude to Scottish indyref is "who cares if there is a majority of votes and seats for pro-indy, pro-referendum parties? We still say no, we won't let you even have a democratic referendum". Which will be that much harder to justify if the Nirish get one on exactly that basis. Unless they argue that NI is somehow different from the rest of the UK, which is precisely what they have been denying all along while mishandling this aspect of Brexit ...
    It’s a poor error of judgement on their part and one, I suspect, they will come to regret as it will make Indy more, not less, likely.
    No it won't.

    Grant an indyref2 now and it would be at best 50% No 50% Yes.

    Refuse an indyref2 now and that guarantees Scotland stays in the UK.

    If there is an indyref2 it will be a Labour government reliant on SNP support who has to take the risk, as long as this Tory government remains in power it will never allow an indyref2 anyway
  • Options
    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151
    edited March 2022
    FF43 said:

    moonshine said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Completely agree with Mike on this. I laid Sunak several months back at a very good profit. The odds on Starmer remain very attractive.

    Meanwhile across the Irish Sea it is beginning to look possible that Sinn Fein will win most seats in the Stormont elections on May 5th, meaning the first ever Sinn Fein First Minister of Northern Ireland. I was lampooned by a couple of people for suggesting this might happen but it's now a real possibility.

    You can get 2/1 on a Irish unification before 01/01/24 with Betfair which I'm probably not tempted by as it's too soon (I think) but the chances of it happening in our lifetimes are immeasurably closer. I was told that this was no big deal. Well it is a big deal. A seismic shift in United Kingdom politics. The seeds of this go back a long way but there's no doubt that Boris Johnson's sell-out of Northern Ireland provides the immediate catalyst. He sacrificed the union for his own political aspirations.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/26/boris-johnson-urged-trigger-article-16-expert-warns-irish-nationalists/

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/03/14/news/-big-shift-election-could-have-major-ramifications-for-stormont-and-constitutional-question-says-nicholas-whyte-2613702/

    Trying to stir up trouble again

    Shame your horse is losing
    This trope is getting tiresome for most people who accept that I am not a troll. It's a pity you are incapable of addressing the issues and this one is a serious issue and the link is from the Daily Telegraph.

    So try to grow up and get a life.
    Why don’t you try crawling back to your cave. That’s where trolls belong. You’re boss’s megalomaniac war is failing, your pathetic amateurish brand of fascism is done. And we can now all see through your weak attempts to needle wounds and stir division. It won’t work.
    Indeed. Point and laugh at the troll, point and laugh at the troll.....

    "She" is as subtle as a turd in a punchbowl.
    Off the scale nastiness on here this morning.
    The site always goes downhill on weekends. Basically the further you get from the time when a normal gainfully-employed well-functioning human would have time to post the better the quality is.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,534
    Toms said:

    Heathener said:

    Toms said:

    Foxy said:

    ping said:

    I just lost an hour.

    It disappeared.

    I want it back!

    You can have it back in October.
    When I went around to the corner to our local shop to buy a paper the shop was open spot on time but the delightful Indian lady there hadn't been aware of the time shift because all her time pieces had automatically updated. Are we becoming subservient to computers?
    There's a mildly amusing article in the Guardian in a similar vein about someone who refuses to follow BST:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/26/britain-clocks-go-forward-eu-us-hour-changes

    They do make some good points. We play with clocks but perhaps the one we should pay more attention to is our body clock not online social or societal clocks? Is it just another means of control?
    My body clock gets me up so early I hardly noticed the change.

    I believe that in Gulliver's Travels the Lilliputians thought his pocket watch was his god because he had told them that he consulted it before he did anything.
    If we didn't have BST though it would get light about 4am in June and dark at 8pm.

    It gives lighter evenings for us to enjoy when we can, after work, instead of spilling it in the small hours when hardly anyone is awake.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,294
    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Completely agree with Mike on this. I laid Sunak several months back at a very good profit. The odds on Starmer remain very attractive.

    Meanwhile across the Irish Sea it is beginning to look possible that Sinn Fein will win most seats in the Stormont elections on May 5th, meaning the first ever Sinn Fein First Minister of Northern Ireland. I was lampooned by a couple of people for suggesting this might happen but it's now a real possibility.

    You can get 2/1 on a Irish unification before 01/01/24 with Betfair which I'm probably not tempted by as it's too soon (I think) but the chances of it happening in our lifetimes are immeasurably closer. I was told that this was no big deal. Well it is a big deal. A seismic shift in United Kingdom politics. The seeds of this go back a long way but there's no doubt that Boris Johnson's sell-out of Northern Ireland provides the immediate catalyst. He sacrificed the union for his own political aspirations.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/26/boris-johnson-urged-trigger-article-16-expert-warns-irish-nationalists/

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/03/14/news/-big-shift-election-could-have-major-ramifications-for-stormont-and-constitutional-question-says-nicholas-whyte-2613702/

    2/1 on Irish unification seems rather short in that time frame. It is looking increasingly likely over time though.
    Hmm. Current Tory attitude to Scottish indyref is "who cares if there is a majority of votes and seats for pro-indy, pro-referendum parties? We still say no, we won't let you even have a democratic referendum". Which will be that much harder to justify if the Nirish get one on exactly that basis. Unless they argue that NI is somehow different from the rest of the UK, which is precisely what they have been denying all along while mishandling this aspect of Brexit ...
    It’s a poor error of judgement on their part and one, I suspect, they will come to regret as it will make Indy more, not less, likely.
    No it won't.

    Grant an indyref2 now and it would be at best 50% No 50% Yes.

    Refuse an indyref2 now and that guarantees Scotland stays in the UK.

    If there is an indyref2 it will be a Labour government reliant on SNP support who has to take the risk, as long as this Tory government remains in power it will never allow an indyref2 anyway

    In the short term you get your wish in the medium term I think this makes Indy far more likely than 50/50.


  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,320
    At last. Market catches up with me. Although not quite - Starmer still a bit of value.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,991
    edited March 2022

    Jonathan said:

    From Dishi Rishi, to Rishi Washy, to all washed up in record time. Impressive.

    The big clue that Rishi wasn't all that was his appointment as CofE.

    Most of Bozza's appointments have been freaks or weaklings so as to not be a threat to him personally.

    Situations like now (lack of a plausible replacement saves Big Dog) help explain why.
    Cabinet ministers were also chosen to act as human shields, for instance against charges of racism or misogyny that have been levelled at Boris in the past, and prominent Brexiteers such as Gove or JRM of the ERG because people suspect, possibly rightly, that Boris was a Remainer posing as a Leaver for his own advantage.

    In Rishi's case, we must also remember he was foisted on Boris when The Saj showed too much backbone for Dominic Cummings.
    I think the human shield argument is a bit weak frankly. Certainly Boris has said stupid stuff - though people tend to rely on the same 4-5 examples - but if he was after token appointments there'd be no need to appoint so many women or those from an ethnic minority. He wouldn't get bonus points for each additional appointment.

    Seems more likely to me that whatever we choose to think about his values, on a personal level at least he doesnt care about race or gender when choosing ministers - he cares about loyalty.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,296

    Toms said:

    Heathener said:

    Toms said:

    Foxy said:

    ping said:

    I just lost an hour.

    It disappeared.

    I want it back!

    You can have it back in October.
    When I went around to the corner to our local shop to buy a paper the shop was open spot on time but the delightful Indian lady there hadn't been aware of the time shift because all her time pieces had automatically updated. Are we becoming subservient to computers?
    There's a mildly amusing article in the Guardian in a similar vein about someone who refuses to follow BST:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/26/britain-clocks-go-forward-eu-us-hour-changes

    They do make some good points. We play with clocks but perhaps the one we should pay more attention to is our body clock not online social or societal clocks? Is it just another means of control?
    My body clock gets me up so early I hardly noticed the change.

    I believe that in Gulliver's Travels the Lilliputians thought his pocket watch was his god because he had told them that he consulted it before he did anything.
    If we didn't have BST though it would get light about 4am in June and dark at 8pm.

    It gives lighter evenings for us to enjoy when we can, after work, instead of spilling it in the small hours when hardly anyone is awake.
    It’s one of the joys of summer - the long, hopefully warm evenings to chat with friends outside in the evening light.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,927
    Heathener said:

    Completely agree with Mike on this. I laid Sunak several months back at a very good profit. The odds on Starmer remain very attractive.

    Meanwhile across the Irish Sea it is beginning to look possible that Sinn Fein will win most seats in the Stormont elections on May 5th, meaning the first ever Sinn Fein First Minister of Northern Ireland. I was lampooned by a couple of people for suggesting this might happen but it's now a real possibility.

    You can get 2/1 on a Irish unification before 01/01/24 with Betfair which I'm probably not tempted by as it's too soon (I think) but the chances of it happening in our lifetimes are immeasurably closer. I was told that this was no big deal. Well it is a big deal. A seismic shift in United Kingdom politics. The seeds of this go back a long way but there's no doubt that Boris Johnson's sell-out of Northern Ireland provides the immediate catalyst. He sacrificed the union for his own political aspirations.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/26/boris-johnson-urged-trigger-article-16-expert-warns-irish-nationalists/

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/03/14/news/-big-shift-election-could-have-major-ramifications-for-stormont-and-constitutional-question-says-nicholas-whyte-2613702/

    Sinn Fein may well top the poll, but only by eating up a shrinking nationalist vote share. At the moment, it looks as though Irish nationalists will win 35/36% of the vote.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,130
    edited March 2022
    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Completely agree with Mike on this. I laid Sunak several months back at a very good profit. The odds on Starmer remain very attractive.

    Meanwhile across the Irish Sea it is beginning to look possible that Sinn Fein will win most seats in the Stormont elections on May 5th, meaning the first ever Sinn Fein First Minister of Northern Ireland. I was lampooned by a couple of people for suggesting this might happen but it's now a real possibility.

    You can get 2/1 on a Irish unification before 01/01/24 with Betfair which I'm probably not tempted by as it's too soon (I think) but the chances of it happening in our lifetimes are immeasurably closer. I was told that this was no big deal. Well it is a big deal. A seismic shift in United Kingdom politics. The seeds of this go back a long way but there's no doubt that Boris Johnson's sell-out of Northern Ireland provides the immediate catalyst. He sacrificed the union for his own political aspirations.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/26/boris-johnson-urged-trigger-article-16-expert-warns-irish-nationalists/

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/03/14/news/-big-shift-election-could-have-major-ramifications-for-stormont-and-constitutional-question-says-nicholas-whyte-2613702/

    2/1 on Irish unification seems rather short in that time frame. It is looking increasingly likely over time though.
    Hmm. Current Tory attitude to Scottish indyref is "who cares if there is a majority of votes and seats for pro-indy, pro-referendum parties? We still say no, we won't let you even have a democratic referendum". Which will be that much harder to justify if the Nirish get one on exactly that basis. Unless they argue that NI is somehow different from the rest of the UK, which is precisely what they have been denying all along while mishandling this aspect of Brexit ...
    It’s a poor error of judgement on their part and one, I suspect, they will come to regret as it will make Indy more, not less, likely.
    No it won't.

    Grant an indyref2 now and it would be at best 50% No 50% Yes.

    Refuse an indyref2 now and that guarantees Scotland stays in the UK.

    If there is an indyref2 it will be a Labour government reliant on SNP support who has to take the risk, as long as this Tory government remains in power it will never allow an indyref2 anyway

    In the short term you get your wish in the medium term I think this makes Indy far more likely than 50/50.


    No it doesn't, certainly from a Tory perspective as we will never grant an indyref2 we need to win anyway now.

    If Labour get in and grant one then they would take the risk of losing it and have to hope the devomax etc they likely promise allows No to scrape home
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,670
    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Completely agree with Mike on this. I laid Sunak several months back at a very good profit. The odds on Starmer remain very attractive.

    Meanwhile across the Irish Sea it is beginning to look possible that Sinn Fein will win most seats in the Stormont elections on May 5th, meaning the first ever Sinn Fein First Minister of Northern Ireland. I was lampooned by a couple of people for suggesting this might happen but it's now a real possibility.

    You can get 2/1 on a Irish unification before 01/01/24 with Betfair which I'm probably not tempted by as it's too soon (I think) but the chances of it happening in our lifetimes are immeasurably closer. I was told that this was no big deal. Well it is a big deal. A seismic shift in United Kingdom politics. The seeds of this go back a long way but there's no doubt that Boris Johnson's sell-out of Northern Ireland provides the immediate catalyst. He sacrificed the union for his own political aspirations.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/26/boris-johnson-urged-trigger-article-16-expert-warns-irish-nationalists/

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/03/14/news/-big-shift-election-could-have-major-ramifications-for-stormont-and-constitutional-question-says-nicholas-whyte-2613702/

    That is rubbish. It was the EU who demanded a border in the Irish Sea for a trade deal, Boris could have imposed a hard border in Ireland and gone to No Deal but then you would have whinged about that too.

    As for NI, only last week a bomb threat was made by the loyalist UVF against Simon Coveney, the Irish Foreign Minister, on his visit to Belfast last week. While obviously that should be condemned, the idea loyalists in Unionist dominated areas of NI like East Belfast and East Londonderry and county Antrim will peacefully settle into a United Ireland is absurd. It would just be the Troubles all over again, except mainly from the loyalist rather than nationalist side.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-60875251

    Hence Boris is considering invoking Article 16, as too much effort was made in the trade talks on the EU side on appeasing nationalists with no hard border in Ireland while ignoring loyalists who did not want a border in the Irish Sea



    I don't think the EU demand anything. We left so there had to be a border. That is what leaving meant. Where would you like it? Or are you going to come out with a non existent tech solution (see Norway/Sweden or Switzerland)
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,991
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Second.

    It’s still possible the Tories come to their senses before the GE.

    As in ditching Boris?

    I think Labour would be delighted to be up against Sunak who, as Mike illustrated, is a completely out of touch billionaire investment banker: about the least attractive profession during this terrible cost of living squeeze.

    So if not Sunak, whom? Liz Truss would be made mincemeat. She's completely out of her depth, however much the Daily Express or Telegraph want to channel the spirit of Maggie through her.

    To whom else could they turn? Michael Gove? Loathed by most people. Jeremy Hunt? Better but still loathed. Priti Patel? Loathed.

    Who? With Sunak fading I can't see it happening now. They missed their chance and I'm convinced the people will punish them at the polls.
    While I generally agree, I don't think Jeremy Hunt is 'loathed'. And quite a few people I know who have met Priti Patel 'like' her on a personal basis.
    She can't meet everyone, of course.
    Priti at -59 on Yougov favourability. Makes even "eat nowt to help out" Sunak look good:


    Ben Wallace now the man to beat if and when Boris goes
    "If"?!
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,513
    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    From Dishi Rishi, to Rishi Washy, to all washed up in record time. Impressive.

    The big clue that Rishi wasn't all that was his appointment as CofE.

    Most of Bozza's appointments have been freaks or weaklings so as to not be a threat to him personally.

    Situations like now (lack of a plausible replacement saves Big Dog) help explain why.
    Cabinet ministers were also chosen to act as human shields, for instance against charges of racism or misogyny that have been levelled at Boris in the past, and prominent Brexiteers such as Gove or JRM of the ERG because people suspect, possibly rightly, that Boris was a Remainer posing as a Leaver for his own advantage.

    In Rishi's case, we must also remember he was foisted on Boris when The Saj showed too much backbone for Dominic Cummings.
    I think the human shield argument is a bit weak frankly. Certainly Boris has said stupid stuff - though people tend to rely on the same 4-5 examples - but if he was after token appointments there'd be no need to appoint so many women or those from an ethnic minority. He wouldn't get bonus points for each additional appointment.

    Seems more likely to me that whatever we choose to think about his values, on a personal level at least he doesnt care about race or gender when choosing ministers - he cares about loyalty.
    A question for his heavily-ghosted memoirs, perhaps, or for Dominic Cummings. There is, of course, a large overlap. For instance, if JRM was appointed in order to give cover from the Brexiteers rather than on merit, he may indeed have a forced loyalty to the Prime Minister. Michael Gove is not known for loyalty to Boris, though, and along with Rishi, shows this is as much Cummings' Cabinet as Boris's.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,513
    edited March 2022
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Completely agree with Mike on this. I laid Sunak several months back at a very good profit. The odds on Starmer remain very attractive.

    Meanwhile across the Irish Sea it is beginning to look possible that Sinn Fein will win most seats in the Stormont elections on May 5th, meaning the first ever Sinn Fein First Minister of Northern Ireland. I was lampooned by a couple of people for suggesting this might happen but it's now a real possibility.

    You can get 2/1 on a Irish unification before 01/01/24 with Betfair which I'm probably not tempted by as it's too soon (I think) but the chances of it happening in our lifetimes are immeasurably closer. I was told that this was no big deal. Well it is a big deal. A seismic shift in United Kingdom politics. The seeds of this go back a long way but there's no doubt that Boris Johnson's sell-out of Northern Ireland provides the immediate catalyst. He sacrificed the union for his own political aspirations.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/26/boris-johnson-urged-trigger-article-16-expert-warns-irish-nationalists/

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/03/14/news/-big-shift-election-could-have-major-ramifications-for-stormont-and-constitutional-question-says-nicholas-whyte-2613702/

    That is rubbish. It was the EU who demanded a border in the Irish Sea for a trade deal, Boris could have imposed a hard border in Ireland and gone to No Deal but then you would have whinged about that too.

    As for NI, only last week a bomb threat was made by the loyalist UVF against Simon Coveney, the Irish Foreign Minister, on his visit to Belfast last week. While obviously that should be condemned, the idea loyalists in Unionist dominated areas of NI like East Belfast and East Londonderry and county Antrim will peacefully settle into a United Ireland is absurd. It would just be the Troubles all over again, except mainly from the loyalist rather than nationalist side.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-60875251

    Hence Boris is considering invoking Article 16, as too much effort was made in the trade talks on the EU side on appeasing nationalists with no hard border in Ireland while ignoring loyalists who did not want a border in the Irish Sea



    I don't think the EU demand anything. We left so there had to be a border. That is what leaving meant. Where would you like it? Or are you going to come out with a non existent tech solution (see Norway/Sweden or Switzerland)
    Well, according to Boris, the border would not be down the Irish Sea; yet there it is.
  • Options
    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Completely agree with Mike on this. I laid Sunak several months back at a very good profit. The odds on Starmer remain very attractive.

    Meanwhile across the Irish Sea it is beginning to look possible that Sinn Fein will win most seats in the Stormont elections on May 5th, meaning the first ever Sinn Fein First Minister of Northern Ireland. I was lampooned by a couple of people for suggesting this might happen but it's now a real possibility.

    You can get 2/1 on a Irish unification before 01/01/24 with Betfair which I'm probably not tempted by as it's too soon (I think) but the chances of it happening in our lifetimes are immeasurably closer. I was told that this was no big deal. Well it is a big deal. A seismic shift in United Kingdom politics. The seeds of this go back a long way but there's no doubt that Boris Johnson's sell-out of Northern Ireland provides the immediate catalyst. He sacrificed the union for his own political aspirations.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/26/boris-johnson-urged-trigger-article-16-expert-warns-irish-nationalists/

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/03/14/news/-big-shift-election-could-have-major-ramifications-for-stormont-and-constitutional-question-says-nicholas-whyte-2613702/

    2/1 on Irish unification seems rather short in that time frame. It is looking increasingly likely over time though.
    Hmm. Current Tory attitude to Scottish indyref is "who cares if there is a majority of votes and seats for pro-indy, pro-referendum parties? We still say no, we won't let you even have a democratic referendum". Which will be that much harder to justify if the Nirish get one on exactly that basis. Unless they argue that NI is somehow different from the rest of the UK, which is precisely what they have been denying all along while mishandling this aspect of Brexit ...
    It’s a poor error of judgement on their part and one, I suspect, they will come to regret as it will make Indy more, not less, likely.
    No it won't.

    Grant an indyref2 now and it would be at best 50% No 50% Yes.

    Refuse an indyref2 now and that guarantees Scotland stays in the UK.

    If there is an indyref2 it will be a Labour government reliant on SNP support who has to take the risk, as long as this Tory government remains in power it will never allow an indyref2 anyway

    In the short term you get your wish in the medium term I think this makes Indy far more likely than 50/50.


    Not an ounce of diplomacy or understanding, just a no or the tanks will be sent to Berwick
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,130
    Sean_F said:

    Heathener said:

    Completely agree with Mike on this. I laid Sunak several months back at a very good profit. The odds on Starmer remain very attractive.

    Meanwhile across the Irish Sea it is beginning to look possible that Sinn Fein will win most seats in the Stormont elections on May 5th, meaning the first ever Sinn Fein First Minister of Northern Ireland. I was lampooned by a couple of people for suggesting this might happen but it's now a real possibility.

    You can get 2/1 on a Irish unification before 01/01/24 with Betfair which I'm probably not tempted by as it's too soon (I think) but the chances of it happening in our lifetimes are immeasurably closer. I was told that this was no big deal. Well it is a big deal. A seismic shift in United Kingdom politics. The seeds of this go back a long way but there's no doubt that Boris Johnson's sell-out of Northern Ireland provides the immediate catalyst. He sacrificed the union for his own political aspirations.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/26/boris-johnson-urged-trigger-article-16-expert-warns-irish-nationalists/

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/03/14/news/-big-shift-election-could-have-major-ramifications-for-stormont-and-constitutional-question-says-nicholas-whyte-2613702/

    Sinn Fein may well top the poll, but only by eating up a shrinking nationalist vote share. At the moment, it looks as though Irish nationalists will win 35/36% of the vote.
    Indeed and SF are actually likely to get less than the 27% they got in 2017.

    The main movement in NI polls is to the TUV, Alliance and UUP, not SF.

    The DUP, SF and SDLP are all down on the last Stormont election, just the DUP down most
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,513

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Completely agree with Mike on this. I laid Sunak several months back at a very good profit. The odds on Starmer remain very attractive.

    Meanwhile across the Irish Sea it is beginning to look possible that Sinn Fein will win most seats in the Stormont elections on May 5th, meaning the first ever Sinn Fein First Minister of Northern Ireland. I was lampooned by a couple of people for suggesting this might happen but it's now a real possibility.

    You can get 2/1 on a Irish unification before 01/01/24 with Betfair which I'm probably not tempted by as it's too soon (I think) but the chances of it happening in our lifetimes are immeasurably closer. I was told that this was no big deal. Well it is a big deal. A seismic shift in United Kingdom politics. The seeds of this go back a long way but there's no doubt that Boris Johnson's sell-out of Northern Ireland provides the immediate catalyst. He sacrificed the union for his own political aspirations.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/26/boris-johnson-urged-trigger-article-16-expert-warns-irish-nationalists/

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/03/14/news/-big-shift-election-could-have-major-ramifications-for-stormont-and-constitutional-question-says-nicholas-whyte-2613702/

    2/1 on Irish unification seems rather short in that time frame. It is looking increasingly likely over time though.
    Hmm. Current Tory attitude to Scottish indyref is "who cares if there is a majority of votes and seats for pro-indy, pro-referendum parties? We still say no, we won't let you even have a democratic referendum". Which will be that much harder to justify if the Nirish get one on exactly that basis. Unless they argue that NI is somehow different from the rest of the UK, which is precisely what they have been denying all along while mishandling this aspect of Brexit ...
    It’s a poor error of judgement on their part and one, I suspect, they will come to regret as it will make Indy more, not less, likely.
    No it won't.

    Grant an indyref2 now and it would be at best 50% No 50% Yes.

    Refuse an indyref2 now and that guarantees Scotland stays in the UK.

    If there is an indyref2 it will be a Labour government reliant on SNP support who has to take the risk, as long as this Tory government remains in power it will never allow an indyref2 anyway

    In the short term you get your wish in the medium term I think this makes Indy far more likely than 50/50.


    Not an ounce of diplomacy or understanding, just a no or the tanks will be sent to Berwick
    Not really, more that Scottish Independence does not matter provided he can blame Labour.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,991

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    From Dishi Rishi, to Rishi Washy, to all washed up in record time. Impressive.

    The big clue that Rishi wasn't all that was his appointment as CofE.

    Most of Bozza's appointments have been freaks or weaklings so as to not be a threat to him personally.

    Situations like now (lack of a plausible replacement saves Big Dog) help explain why.
    Cabinet ministers were also chosen to act as human shields, for instance against charges of racism or misogyny that have been levelled at Boris in the past, and prominent Brexiteers such as Gove or JRM of the ERG because people suspect, possibly rightly, that Boris was a Remainer posing as a Leaver for his own advantage.

    In Rishi's case, we must also remember he was foisted on Boris when The Saj showed too much backbone for Dominic Cummings.
    I think the human shield argument is a bit weak frankly. Certainly Boris has said stupid stuff - though people tend to rely on the same 4-5 examples - but if he was after token appointments there'd be no need to appoint so many women or those from an ethnic minority. He wouldn't get bonus points for each additional appointment.

    Seems more likely to me that whatever we choose to think about his values, on a personal level at least he doesnt care about race or gender when choosing ministers - he cares about loyalty.
    A question for his heavily-ghosted memoirs, perhaps, or for Dominic Cummings. There is, of course, a large overlap. For instance, if JRM was appointed in order to give cover from the Brexiteers rather than on merit, he may indeed have a forced loyalty to the Prime Minister. Michael Gove is not known for loyalty to Boris, though, and along with Rishi, shows this is as much Cummings' Cabinet as Boris's.
    You cannot just have Yes men (plus former yes men can develop backbone). Gove is too useful or troublesome to leave out, and no threat to become PM despite his dreams.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,294
    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Completely agree with Mike on this. I laid Sunak several months back at a very good profit. The odds on Starmer remain very attractive.

    Meanwhile across the Irish Sea it is beginning to look possible that Sinn Fein will win most seats in the Stormont elections on May 5th, meaning the first ever Sinn Fein First Minister of Northern Ireland. I was lampooned by a couple of people for suggesting this might happen but it's now a real possibility.

    You can get 2/1 on a Irish unification before 01/01/24 with Betfair which I'm probably not tempted by as it's too soon (I think) but the chances of it happening in our lifetimes are immeasurably closer. I was told that this was no big deal. Well it is a big deal. A seismic shift in United Kingdom politics. The seeds of this go back a long way but there's no doubt that Boris Johnson's sell-out of Northern Ireland provides the immediate catalyst. He sacrificed the union for his own political aspirations.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/26/boris-johnson-urged-trigger-article-16-expert-warns-irish-nationalists/

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/03/14/news/-big-shift-election-could-have-major-ramifications-for-stormont-and-constitutional-question-says-nicholas-whyte-2613702/

    2/1 on Irish unification seems rather short in that time frame. It is looking increasingly likely over time though.
    Hmm. Current Tory attitude to Scottish indyref is "who cares if there is a majority of votes and seats for pro-indy, pro-referendum parties? We still say no, we won't let you even have a democratic referendum". Which will be that much harder to justify if the Nirish get one on exactly that basis. Unless they argue that NI is somehow different from the rest of the UK, which is precisely what they have been denying all along while mishandling this aspect of Brexit ...
    It’s a poor error of judgement on their part and one, I suspect, they will come to regret as it will make Indy more, not less, likely.
    No it won't.

    Grant an indyref2 now and it would be at best 50% No 50% Yes.

    Refuse an indyref2 now and that guarantees Scotland stays in the UK.

    If there is an indyref2 it will be a Labour government reliant on SNP support who has to take the risk, as long as this Tory government remains in power it will never allow an indyref2 anyway

    In the short term you get your wish in the medium term I think this makes Indy far more likely than 50/50.


    No it doesn't, certainly from a Tory perspective as we will never grant an indyref2 we need to win anyway now.

    If Labour get in and grant one then they would take the risk of losing it and have to hope the devomax etc they likely promise allows No to scrape home
    Never is a long time and it was a Tory leader who granted the last one. Would it be such a disaster if one was held and yes won ? Far better to be good friends with Scotland than holding an increasingly unwilling nation in a union they increasingly want no part of as they see it being for their detriment.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,534

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Second.

    It’s still possible the Tories come to their senses before the GE.

    As in ditching Boris?

    I think Labour would be delighted to be up against Sunak who, as Mike illustrated, is a completely out of touch billionaire investment banker: about the least attractive profession during this terrible cost of living squeeze.

    So if not Sunak, whom? Liz Truss would be made mincemeat. She's completely out of her depth, however much the Daily Express or Telegraph want to channel the spirit of Maggie through her.

    To whom else could they turn? Michael Gove? Loathed by most people. Jeremy Hunt? Better but still loathed. Priti Patel? Loathed.

    Who? With Sunak fading I can't see it happening now. They missed their chance and I'm convinced the people will punish them at the polls.
    While I generally agree, I don't think Jeremy Hunt is 'loathed'. And quite a few people I know who have met Priti Patel 'like' her on a personal basis.
    She can't meet everyone, of course.
    Priti at -59 on Yougov favourability. Makes even "eat nowt to help out" Sunak look good:


    Ben Wallace now the man to beat if and when Boris goes
    Ben Wallace scores 63 per cent on the "don't know" scale so let's not break out the bunting just yet.
    Ben Wallace strikes me as a man of the moment candidate.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,130
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Completely agree with Mike on this. I laid Sunak several months back at a very good profit. The odds on Starmer remain very attractive.

    Meanwhile across the Irish Sea it is beginning to look possible that Sinn Fein will win most seats in the Stormont elections on May 5th, meaning the first ever Sinn Fein First Minister of Northern Ireland. I was lampooned by a couple of people for suggesting this might happen but it's now a real possibility.

    You can get 2/1 on a Irish unification before 01/01/24 with Betfair which I'm probably not tempted by as it's too soon (I think) but the chances of it happening in our lifetimes are immeasurably closer. I was told that this was no big deal. Well it is a big deal. A seismic shift in United Kingdom politics. The seeds of this go back a long way but there's no doubt that Boris Johnson's sell-out of Northern Ireland provides the immediate catalyst. He sacrificed the union for his own political aspirations.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/26/boris-johnson-urged-trigger-article-16-expert-warns-irish-nationalists/

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/03/14/news/-big-shift-election-could-have-major-ramifications-for-stormont-and-constitutional-question-says-nicholas-whyte-2613702/

    That is rubbish. It was the EU who demanded a border in the Irish Sea for a trade deal, Boris could have imposed a hard border in Ireland and gone to No Deal but then you would have whinged about that too.

    As for NI, only last week a bomb threat was made by the loyalist UVF against Simon Coveney, the Irish Foreign Minister, on his visit to Belfast last week. While obviously that should be condemned, the idea loyalists in Unionist dominated areas of NI like East Belfast and East Londonderry and county Antrim will peacefully settle into a United Ireland is absurd. It would just be the Troubles all over again, except mainly from the loyalist rather than nationalist side.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-60875251

    Hence Boris is considering invoking Article 16, as too much effort was made in the trade talks on the EU side on appeasing nationalists with no hard border in Ireland while ignoring loyalists who did not want a border in the Irish Sea



    I don't think the EU demand anything. We left so there had to be a border. That is what leaving meant. Where would you like it? Or are you going to come out with a non existent tech solution (see Norway/Sweden or Switzerland)
    A tech solution is my preference yes
  • Options
    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,244

    FF43 said:

    moonshine said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Completely agree with Mike on this. I laid Sunak several months back at a very good profit. The odds on Starmer remain very attractive.

    Meanwhile across the Irish Sea it is beginning to look possible that Sinn Fein will win most seats in the Stormont elections on May 5th, meaning the first ever Sinn Fein First Minister of Northern Ireland. I was lampooned by a couple of people for suggesting this might happen but it's now a real possibility.

    You can get 2/1 on a Irish unification before 01/01/24 with Betfair which I'm probably not tempted by as it's too soon (I think) but the chances of it happening in our lifetimes are immeasurably closer. I was told that this was no big deal. Well it is a big deal. A seismic shift in United Kingdom politics. The seeds of this go back a long way but there's no doubt that Boris Johnson's sell-out of Northern Ireland provides the immediate catalyst. He sacrificed the union for his own political aspirations.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/26/boris-johnson-urged-trigger-article-16-expert-warns-irish-nationalists/

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/03/14/news/-big-shift-election-could-have-major-ramifications-for-stormont-and-constitutional-question-says-nicholas-whyte-2613702/

    Trying to stir up trouble again

    Shame your horse is losing
    This trope is getting tiresome for most people who accept that I am not a troll. It's a pity you are incapable of addressing the issues and this one is a serious issue and the link is from the Daily Telegraph.

    So try to grow up and get a life.
    Why don’t you try crawling back to your cave. That’s where trolls belong. You’re boss’s megalomaniac war is failing, your pathetic amateurish brand of fascism is done. And we can now all see through your weak attempts to needle wounds and stir division. It won’t work.
    Indeed. Point and laugh at the troll, point and laugh at the troll.....

    "She" is as subtle as a turd in a punchbowl.
    Off the scale nastiness on here this morning.
    The site always goes downhill on weekends. Basically the further you get from the time when a normal gainfully-employed well-functioning human would have time to post the better the quality is.
    Apologies. We should all be kinder to someone who is very highly likely being paid to spread discord and division on behalf of a government committing war crimes on an hourly basis.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,513
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    From Dishi Rishi, to Rishi Washy, to all washed up in record time. Impressive.

    The big clue that Rishi wasn't all that was his appointment as CofE.

    Most of Bozza's appointments have been freaks or weaklings so as to not be a threat to him personally.

    Situations like now (lack of a plausible replacement saves Big Dog) help explain why.
    Cabinet ministers were also chosen to act as human shields, for instance against charges of racism or misogyny that have been levelled at Boris in the past, and prominent Brexiteers such as Gove or JRM of the ERG because people suspect, possibly rightly, that Boris was a Remainer posing as a Leaver for his own advantage.

    In Rishi's case, we must also remember he was foisted on Boris when The Saj showed too much backbone for Dominic Cummings.
    I think the human shield argument is a bit weak frankly. Certainly Boris has said stupid stuff - though people tend to rely on the same 4-5 examples - but if he was after token appointments there'd be no need to appoint so many women or those from an ethnic minority. He wouldn't get bonus points for each additional appointment.

    Seems more likely to me that whatever we choose to think about his values, on a personal level at least he doesnt care about race or gender when choosing ministers - he cares about loyalty.
    A question for his heavily-ghosted memoirs, perhaps, or for Dominic Cummings. There is, of course, a large overlap. For instance, if JRM was appointed in order to give cover from the Brexiteers rather than on merit, he may indeed have a forced loyalty to the Prime Minister. Michael Gove is not known for loyalty to Boris, though, and along with Rishi, shows this is as much Cummings' Cabinet as Boris's.
    You cannot just have Yes men (plus former yes men can develop backbone). Gove is too useful or troublesome to leave out, and no threat to become PM despite his dreams.
    Gove is a long-standing ally of Dominic Cummings who is known to have had a major influence in drawing up Boris's Cabinet. Occam's Razor and all that.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,137
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Completely agree with Mike on this. I laid Sunak several months back at a very good profit. The odds on Starmer remain very attractive.

    Meanwhile across the Irish Sea it is beginning to look possible that Sinn Fein will win most seats in the Stormont elections on May 5th, meaning the first ever Sinn Fein First Minister of Northern Ireland. I was lampooned by a couple of people for suggesting this might happen but it's now a real possibility.

    You can get 2/1 on a Irish unification before 01/01/24 with Betfair which I'm probably not tempted by as it's too soon (I think) but the chances of it happening in our lifetimes are immeasurably closer. I was told that this was no big deal. Well it is a big deal. A seismic shift in United Kingdom politics. The seeds of this go back a long way but there's no doubt that Boris Johnson's sell-out of Northern Ireland provides the immediate catalyst. He sacrificed the union for his own political aspirations.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/26/boris-johnson-urged-trigger-article-16-expert-warns-irish-nationalists/

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/03/14/news/-big-shift-election-could-have-major-ramifications-for-stormont-and-constitutional-question-says-nicholas-whyte-2613702/

    2/1 on Irish unification seems rather short in that time frame. It is looking increasingly likely over time though.
    Hmm. Current Tory attitude to Scottish indyref is "who cares if there is a majority of votes and seats for pro-indy, pro-referendum parties? We still say no, we won't let you even have a democratic referendum". Which will be that much harder to justify if the Nirish get one on exactly that basis. Unless they argue that NI is somehow different from the rest of the UK, which is precisely what they have been denying all along while mishandling this aspect of Brexit ...
    It won't as long as Unionist parties combined continue to win more seats and votes at Stormont than Nationalist parties.

    That automatically gives the NI Secretary grounds to refuse a border poll.

    In terms of Scotland Nationalist parties ie the SNP and Green may have a majority at Holyrood unlike Nationalist parties at Stormont but the UK government can refuse an indyref2 without needing any grounds under the Scotland Act 1998, as this Tory government will continue to do. The GFA terms do not apply to Scotland
    "but reasons we made up". You're missing the point completely - the political impact involved.
    What political impact. The UK government has correctly stood up to Nationalists and said a firm 'NO'.

    Enough of appeasement of the SNP, this Tory government is rightly ignoring them!
    So much for democracy.
    We had an election in 2019, where the party pledging no further referendum on Scottish independence got an 80 seat majority.

    The Scots had a chance to go for independence in 2014 - and yet chose not to take it.

    So much democracy.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,028
    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    I think 'Russian Troll' is an overdetected condition as regards on here.

    There may have been one or two but Heathener isn’t one of them.
    They are a native English speaker for a start.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,411

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Completely agree with Mike on this. I laid Sunak several months back at a very good profit. The odds on Starmer remain very attractive.

    Meanwhile across the Irish Sea it is beginning to look possible that Sinn Fein will win most seats in the Stormont elections on May 5th, meaning the first ever Sinn Fein First Minister of Northern Ireland. I was lampooned by a couple of people for suggesting this might happen but it's now a real possibility.

    You can get 2/1 on a Irish unification before 01/01/24 with Betfair which I'm probably not tempted by as it's too soon (I think) but the chances of it happening in our lifetimes are immeasurably closer. I was told that this was no big deal. Well it is a big deal. A seismic shift in United Kingdom politics. The seeds of this go back a long way but there's no doubt that Boris Johnson's sell-out of Northern Ireland provides the immediate catalyst. He sacrificed the union for his own political aspirations.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/26/boris-johnson-urged-trigger-article-16-expert-warns-irish-nationalists/

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/03/14/news/-big-shift-election-could-have-major-ramifications-for-stormont-and-constitutional-question-says-nicholas-whyte-2613702/

    2/1 on Irish unification seems rather short in that time frame. It is looking increasingly likely over time though.
    Hmm. Current Tory attitude to Scottish indyref is "who cares if there is a majority of votes and seats for pro-indy, pro-referendum parties? We still say no, we won't let you even have a democratic referendum". Which will be that much harder to justify if the Nirish get one on exactly that basis. Unless they argue that NI is somehow different from the rest of the UK, which is precisely what they have been denying all along while mishandling this aspect of Brexit ...
    It won't as long as Unionist parties combined continue to win more seats and votes at Stormont than Nationalist parties.

    That automatically gives the NI Secretary grounds to refuse a border poll.

    In terms of Scotland Nationalist parties ie the SNP and Green may have a majority at Holyrood unlike Nationalist parties at Stormont but the UK government can refuse an indyref2 without needing any grounds under the Scotland Act 1998, as this Tory government will continue to do. The GFA terms do not apply to Scotland
    "but reasons we made up". You're missing the point completely - the political impact involved.
    What political impact. The UK government has correctly stood up to Nationalists and said a firm 'NO'.

    Enough of appeasement of the SNP, this Tory government is rightly ignoring them!
    So much for democracy.
    We had an election in 2019, where the party pledging no further referendum on Scottish independence got an 80 seat majority.

    The Scots had a chance to go for independence in 2014 - and yet chose not to take it.

    So much democracy.
    56.4% of voters voted for other parties...
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,670
    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Completely agree with Mike on this. I laid Sunak several months back at a very good profit. The odds on Starmer remain very attractive.

    Meanwhile across the Irish Sea it is beginning to look possible that Sinn Fein will win most seats in the Stormont elections on May 5th, meaning the first ever Sinn Fein First Minister of Northern Ireland. I was lampooned by a couple of people for suggesting this might happen but it's now a real possibility.

    You can get 2/1 on a Irish unification before 01/01/24 with Betfair which I'm probably not tempted by as it's too soon (I think) but the chances of it happening in our lifetimes are immeasurably closer. I was told that this was no big deal. Well it is a big deal. A seismic shift in United Kingdom politics. The seeds of this go back a long way but there's no doubt that Boris Johnson's sell-out of Northern Ireland provides the immediate catalyst. He sacrificed the union for his own political aspirations.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/26/boris-johnson-urged-trigger-article-16-expert-warns-irish-nationalists/

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/03/14/news/-big-shift-election-could-have-major-ramifications-for-stormont-and-constitutional-question-says-nicholas-whyte-2613702/

    That is rubbish. It was the EU who demanded a border in the Irish Sea for a trade deal, Boris could have imposed a hard border in Ireland and gone to No Deal but then you would have whinged about that too.

    As for NI, only last week a bomb threat was made by the loyalist UVF against Simon Coveney, the Irish Foreign Minister, on his visit to Belfast last week. While obviously that should be condemned, the idea loyalists in Unionist dominated areas of NI like East Belfast and East Londonderry and county Antrim will peacefully settle into a United Ireland is absurd. It would just be the Troubles all over again, except mainly from the loyalist rather than nationalist side.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-60875251

    Hence Boris is considering invoking Article 16, as too much effort was made in the trade talks on the EU side on appeasing nationalists with no hard border in Ireland while ignoring loyalists who did not want a border in the Irish Sea



    I don't think the EU demand anything. We left so there had to be a border. That is what leaving meant. Where would you like it? Or are you going to come out with a non existent tech solution (see Norway/Sweden or Switzerland)
    A tech solution is my preference yes
    It doesn't exist and it never can. You can use tech to improve things but it isn't magic. Stuff still needs to be entered into the tech and then spot checked. As I said look at Norway/Sweden or Switzerland.
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Completely agree with Mike on this. I laid Sunak several months back at a very good profit. The odds on Starmer remain very attractive.

    Meanwhile across the Irish Sea it is beginning to look possible that Sinn Fein will win most seats in the Stormont elections on May 5th, meaning the first ever Sinn Fein First Minister of Northern Ireland. I was lampooned by a couple of people for suggesting this might happen but it's now a real possibility.

    You can get 2/1 on a Irish unification before 01/01/24 with Betfair which I'm probably not tempted by as it's too soon (I think) but the chances of it happening in our lifetimes are immeasurably closer. I was told that this was no big deal. Well it is a big deal. A seismic shift in United Kingdom politics. The seeds of this go back a long way but there's no doubt that Boris Johnson's sell-out of Northern Ireland provides the immediate catalyst. He sacrificed the union for his own political aspirations.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/26/boris-johnson-urged-trigger-article-16-expert-warns-irish-nationalists/

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/03/14/news/-big-shift-election-could-have-major-ramifications-for-stormont-and-constitutional-question-says-nicholas-whyte-2613702/

    2/1 on Irish unification seems rather short in that time frame. It is looking increasingly likely over time though.
    Hmm. Current Tory attitude to Scottish indyref is "who cares if there is a majority of votes and seats for pro-indy, pro-referendum parties? We still say no, we won't let you even have a democratic referendum". Which will be that much harder to justify if the Nirish get one on exactly that basis. Unless they argue that NI is somehow different from the rest of the UK, which is precisely what they have been denying all along while mishandling this aspect of Brexit ...
    It’s a poor error of judgement on their part and one, I suspect, they will come to regret as it will make Indy more, not less, likely.
    No it won't.

    Grant an indyref2 now and it would be at best 50% No 50% Yes.

    Refuse an indyref2 now and that guarantees Scotland stays in the UK.

    If there is an indyref2 it will be a Labour government reliant on SNP support who has to take the risk, as long as this Tory government remains in power it will never allow an indyref2 anyway
    Thank you for confirming that whether people vote Tory or not in the upcoming local elections it will have zero effect on protecting the union.
    That's not how the Scottish Tories are campaigning.
  • Options

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Completely agree with Mike on this. I laid Sunak several months back at a very good profit. The odds on Starmer remain very attractive.

    Meanwhile across the Irish Sea it is beginning to look possible that Sinn Fein will win most seats in the Stormont elections on May 5th, meaning the first ever Sinn Fein First Minister of Northern Ireland. I was lampooned by a couple of people for suggesting this might happen but it's now a real possibility.

    You can get 2/1 on a Irish unification before 01/01/24 with Betfair which I'm probably not tempted by as it's too soon (I think) but the chances of it happening in our lifetimes are immeasurably closer. I was told that this was no big deal. Well it is a big deal. A seismic shift in United Kingdom politics. The seeds of this go back a long way but there's no doubt that Boris Johnson's sell-out of Northern Ireland provides the immediate catalyst. He sacrificed the union for his own political aspirations.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/26/boris-johnson-urged-trigger-article-16-expert-warns-irish-nationalists/

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/03/14/news/-big-shift-election-could-have-major-ramifications-for-stormont-and-constitutional-question-says-nicholas-whyte-2613702/

    2/1 on Irish unification seems rather short in that time frame. It is looking increasingly likely over time though.
    Hmm. Current Tory attitude to Scottish indyref is "who cares if there is a majority of votes and seats for pro-indy, pro-referendum parties? We still say no, we won't let you even have a democratic referendum". Which will be that much harder to justify if the Nirish get one on exactly that basis. Unless they argue that NI is somehow different from the rest of the UK, which is precisely what they have been denying all along while mishandling this aspect of Brexit ...
    It’s a poor error of judgement on their part and one, I suspect, they will come to regret as it will make Indy more, not less, likely.
    No it won't.

    Grant an indyref2 now and it would be at best 50% No 50% Yes.

    Refuse an indyref2 now and that guarantees Scotland stays in the UK.

    If there is an indyref2 it will be a Labour government reliant on SNP support who has to take the risk, as long as this Tory government remains in power it will never allow an indyref2 anyway

    In the short term you get your wish in the medium term I think this makes Indy far more likely than 50/50.


    Not an ounce of diplomacy or understanding, just a no or the tanks will be sent to Berwick
    Not really, more that Scottish Independence does not matter provided he can blame Labour.
    Some truth in that to be fair but it does not excuse his intemperate attitude to a very important subject to many
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,411
    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Completely agree with Mike on this. I laid Sunak several months back at a very good profit. The odds on Starmer remain very attractive.

    Meanwhile across the Irish Sea it is beginning to look possible that Sinn Fein will win most seats in the Stormont elections on May 5th, meaning the first ever Sinn Fein First Minister of Northern Ireland. I was lampooned by a couple of people for suggesting this might happen but it's now a real possibility.

    You can get 2/1 on a Irish unification before 01/01/24 with Betfair which I'm probably not tempted by as it's too soon (I think) but the chances of it happening in our lifetimes are immeasurably closer. I was told that this was no big deal. Well it is a big deal. A seismic shift in United Kingdom politics. The seeds of this go back a long way but there's no doubt that Boris Johnson's sell-out of Northern Ireland provides the immediate catalyst. He sacrificed the union for his own political aspirations.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/26/boris-johnson-urged-trigger-article-16-expert-warns-irish-nationalists/

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/03/14/news/-big-shift-election-could-have-major-ramifications-for-stormont-and-constitutional-question-says-nicholas-whyte-2613702/

    That is rubbish. It was the EU who demanded a border in the Irish Sea for a trade deal, Boris could have imposed a hard border in Ireland and gone to No Deal but then you would have whinged about that too.

    As for NI, only last week a bomb threat was made by the loyalist UVF against Simon Coveney, the Irish Foreign Minister, on his visit to Belfast last week. While obviously that should be condemned, the idea loyalists in Unionist dominated areas of NI like East Belfast and East Londonderry and county Antrim will peacefully settle into a United Ireland is absurd. It would just be the Troubles all over again, except mainly from the loyalist rather than nationalist side.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-60875251

    Hence Boris is considering invoking Article 16, as too much effort was made in the trade talks on the EU side on appeasing nationalists with no hard border in Ireland while ignoring loyalists who did not want a border in the Irish Sea



    County Down was more Protestant than Antrim in 2011.
  • Options
    pm215pm215 Posts: 937
    FF43 said:

    Fascinating chart. Thatcher really hated poor people but loved the rich. Blair was head and shoulders above any other recent prime minister (shame about Iraq). Major also good. Johnson is the worst.



    https://mobile.twitter.com/DuncanWeldon/status/1507412767707627520

    Interesting to see that when there's a top-end spike it's usually not the richest 5% but the cohort below them, the 90-95th%s... As of 2020 that's about the 58-80K pre-tax income bracket. So it's not the "super-rich getting all the money" easy narrative, but something a little more complicated, I guess.
  • Options
    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151
    moonshine said:

    FF43 said:

    moonshine said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Completely agree with Mike on this. I laid Sunak several months back at a very good profit. The odds on Starmer remain very attractive.

    Meanwhile across the Irish Sea it is beginning to look possible that Sinn Fein will win most seats in the Stormont elections on May 5th, meaning the first ever Sinn Fein First Minister of Northern Ireland. I was lampooned by a couple of people for suggesting this might happen but it's now a real possibility.

    You can get 2/1 on a Irish unification before 01/01/24 with Betfair which I'm probably not tempted by as it's too soon (I think) but the chances of it happening in our lifetimes are immeasurably closer. I was told that this was no big deal. Well it is a big deal. A seismic shift in United Kingdom politics. The seeds of this go back a long way but there's no doubt that Boris Johnson's sell-out of Northern Ireland provides the immediate catalyst. He sacrificed the union for his own political aspirations.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/26/boris-johnson-urged-trigger-article-16-expert-warns-irish-nationalists/

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/03/14/news/-big-shift-election-could-have-major-ramifications-for-stormont-and-constitutional-question-says-nicholas-whyte-2613702/

    Trying to stir up trouble again

    Shame your horse is losing
    This trope is getting tiresome for most people who accept that I am not a troll. It's a pity you are incapable of addressing the issues and this one is a serious issue and the link is from the Daily Telegraph.

    So try to grow up and get a life.
    Why don’t you try crawling back to your cave. That’s where trolls belong. You’re boss’s megalomaniac war is failing, your pathetic amateurish brand of fascism is done. And we can now all see through your weak attempts to needle wounds and stir division. It won’t work.
    Indeed. Point and laugh at the troll, point and laugh at the troll.....

    "She" is as subtle as a turd in a punchbowl.
    Off the scale nastiness on here this morning.
    The site always goes downhill on weekends. Basically the further you get from the time when a normal gainfully-employed well-functioning human would have time to post the better the quality is.
    Apologies. We should all be kinder to someone who is very highly likely being paid to spread discord and division on behalf of a government committing war crimes on an hourly basis.
    That could be it, it might be that when we get quality discussion here it's just all the different propaganda bots arguing with each other.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,296
    Dura_Ace said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    I think 'Russian Troll' is an overdetected condition as regards on here.

    There may have been one or two but Heathener isn’t one of them.
    They are a native English speaker for a start.
    Yep. She seems to want to wind people up as much as possible, so that probably counts as a troll, but I don’t think she is paid. More that she gets her kicks from it.
    I don’t believe her nonsense about ‘protecting someone in power’, so the dogs IP must be an issue, but hey, who knows.
  • Options
    mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,147
    kinabalu said:

    I think 'Russian Troll' is an overdetected condition as regards on here.

    ++Radio crackle++ <<I think we've found another one>> ++
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,416
    Recommend listening to the Test Match Special podcast.

    They interviewed former cricketer Stuart Meaker who is in Poland helping Ukrainian refugees with their visa applications, and he's not happy about the UK government policy and failings. He said he didn't want to get political, but there's no hiding from what isn't being done. Still 5-10 days for decisions on visa applications.

    A shameful situation.
  • Options
    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,244

    Dura_Ace said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    I think 'Russian Troll' is an overdetected condition as regards on here.

    There may have been one or two but Heathener isn’t one of them.
    They are a native English speaker for a start.
    Yep. She seems to want to wind people up as much as possible, so that probably counts as a troll, but I don’t think she is paid. More that she gets her kicks from it.
    I don’t believe her nonsense about ‘protecting someone in power’, so the dogs IP must be an issue, but hey, who knows.
    “She”
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,995

    Toms said:

    Heathener said:

    Toms said:

    Foxy said:

    ping said:

    I just lost an hour.

    It disappeared.

    I want it back!

    You can have it back in October.
    When I went around to the corner to our local shop to buy a paper the shop was open spot on time but the delightful Indian lady there hadn't been aware of the time shift because all her time pieces had automatically updated. Are we becoming subservient to computers?
    There's a mildly amusing article in the Guardian in a similar vein about someone who refuses to follow BST:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/26/britain-clocks-go-forward-eu-us-hour-changes

    They do make some good points. We play with clocks but perhaps the one we should pay more attention to is our body clock not online social or societal clocks? Is it just another means of control?
    My body clock gets me up so early I hardly noticed the change.

    I believe that in Gulliver's Travels the Lilliputians thought his pocket watch was his god because he had told them that he consulted it before he did anything.
    If we didn't have BST though it would get light about 4am in June and dark at 8pm.

    It gives lighter evenings for us to enjoy when we can, after work, instead of spilling it in the small hours when hardly anyone is awake.
    Mmm. Lighter evenings for me means not dark at 11. I'd prefer 10:30 to be night time.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,513

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Completely agree with Mike on this. I laid Sunak several months back at a very good profit. The odds on Starmer remain very attractive.

    Meanwhile across the Irish Sea it is beginning to look possible that Sinn Fein will win most seats in the Stormont elections on May 5th, meaning the first ever Sinn Fein First Minister of Northern Ireland. I was lampooned by a couple of people for suggesting this might happen but it's now a real possibility.

    You can get 2/1 on a Irish unification before 01/01/24 with Betfair which I'm probably not tempted by as it's too soon (I think) but the chances of it happening in our lifetimes are immeasurably closer. I was told that this was no big deal. Well it is a big deal. A seismic shift in United Kingdom politics. The seeds of this go back a long way but there's no doubt that Boris Johnson's sell-out of Northern Ireland provides the immediate catalyst. He sacrificed the union for his own political aspirations.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/26/boris-johnson-urged-trigger-article-16-expert-warns-irish-nationalists/

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/03/14/news/-big-shift-election-could-have-major-ramifications-for-stormont-and-constitutional-question-says-nicholas-whyte-2613702/

    2/1 on Irish unification seems rather short in that time frame. It is looking increasingly likely over time though.
    Hmm. Current Tory attitude to Scottish indyref is "who cares if there is a majority of votes and seats for pro-indy, pro-referendum parties? We still say no, we won't let you even have a democratic referendum". Which will be that much harder to justify if the Nirish get one on exactly that basis. Unless they argue that NI is somehow different from the rest of the UK, which is precisely what they have been denying all along while mishandling this aspect of Brexit ...
    It’s a poor error of judgement on their part and one, I suspect, they will come to regret as it will make Indy more, not less, likely.
    No it won't.

    Grant an indyref2 now and it would be at best 50% No 50% Yes.

    Refuse an indyref2 now and that guarantees Scotland stays in the UK.

    If there is an indyref2 it will be a Labour government reliant on SNP support who has to take the risk, as long as this Tory government remains in power it will never allow an indyref2 anyway

    In the short term you get your wish in the medium term I think this makes Indy far more likely than 50/50.


    Not an ounce of diplomacy or understanding, just a no or the tanks will be sent to Berwick
    Not really, more that Scottish Independence does not matter provided he can blame Labour.
    Some truth in that to be fair but it does not excuse his intemperate attitude to a very important subject to many
    Perhaps like others, he confuses winning the debate with winning converts. His approach might shut down Jeremy Paxman in a short interview but is unlikely to persuade more people to vote for his cause.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,894
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Second.

    It’s still possible the Tories come to their senses before the GE.

    As in ditching Boris?

    I think Labour would be delighted to be up against Sunak who, as Mike illustrated, is a completely out of touch billionaire investment banker: about the least attractive profession during this terrible cost of living squeeze.

    So if not Sunak, whom? Liz Truss would be made mincemeat. She's completely out of her depth, however much the Daily Express or Telegraph want to channel the spirit of Maggie through her.

    To whom else could they turn? Michael Gove? Loathed by most people. Jeremy Hunt? Better but still loathed. Priti Patel? Loathed.

    Who? With Sunak fading I can't see it happening now. They missed their chance and I'm convinced the people will punish them at the polls.
    While I generally agree, I don't think Jeremy Hunt is 'loathed'. And quite a few people I know who have met Priti Patel 'like' her on a personal basis.
    She can't meet everyone, of course.
    Priti at -59 on Yougov favourability. Makes even "eat nowt to help out" Sunak look good:


    Ben Wallace now the man to beat if and when Boris goes
    Are you sure? Looking at the chart he has the same approval rating as Patel. All the chart tells you is that he's unknown. At best a pig in a poke.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,779
    pm215 said:

    FF43 said:

    Fascinating chart. Thatcher really hated poor people but loved the rich. Blair was head and shoulders above any other recent prime minister (shame about Iraq). Major also good. Johnson is the worst.



    https://mobile.twitter.com/DuncanWeldon/status/1507412767707627520

    Interesting to see that when there's a top-end spike it's usually not the richest 5% but the cohort below them, the 90-95th%s... As of 2020 that's about the 58-80K pre-tax income bracket. So it's not the "super-rich getting all the money" easy narrative, but something a little more complicated, I guess.
    I suspect there's some data anomaly in the second from top band. The pattern of rich versus poor is still clear, assuming consistent data over the series.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,670
    moonshine said:

    FF43 said:

    moonshine said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Completely agree with Mike on this. I laid Sunak several months back at a very good profit. The odds on Starmer remain very attractive.

    Meanwhile across the Irish Sea it is beginning to look possible that Sinn Fein will win most seats in the Stormont elections on May 5th, meaning the first ever Sinn Fein First Minister of Northern Ireland. I was lampooned by a couple of people for suggesting this might happen but it's now a real possibility.

    You can get 2/1 on a Irish unification before 01/01/24 with Betfair which I'm probably not tempted by as it's too soon (I think) but the chances of it happening in our lifetimes are immeasurably closer. I was told that this was no big deal. Well it is a big deal. A seismic shift in United Kingdom politics. The seeds of this go back a long way but there's no doubt that Boris Johnson's sell-out of Northern Ireland provides the immediate catalyst. He sacrificed the union for his own political aspirations.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/26/boris-johnson-urged-trigger-article-16-expert-warns-irish-nationalists/

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/03/14/news/-big-shift-election-could-have-major-ramifications-for-stormont-and-constitutional-question-says-nicholas-whyte-2613702/

    Trying to stir up trouble again

    Shame your horse is losing
    This trope is getting tiresome for most people who accept that I am not a troll. It's a pity you are incapable of addressing the issues and this one is a serious issue and the link is from the Daily Telegraph.

    So try to grow up and get a life.
    Why don’t you try crawling back to your cave. That’s where trolls belong. You’re boss’s megalomaniac war is failing, your pathetic amateurish brand of fascism is done. And we can now all see through your weak attempts to needle wounds and stir division. It won’t work.
    Indeed. Point and laugh at the troll, point and laugh at the troll.....

    "She" is as subtle as a turd in a punchbowl.
    Off the scale nastiness on here this morning.
    The site always goes downhill on weekends. Basically the further you get from the time when a normal gainfully-employed well-functioning human would have time to post the better the quality is.
    Apologies. We should all be kinder to someone who is very highly likely being paid to spread discord and division on behalf of a government committing war crimes on an hourly basis.
    I called for your banning when you posted QAnon stuff (I accept that is out of character having seen posts since). Aren't you doing the same thing? I am suspicious of the IP address issue, but the posts have content rather than being spam, so I think she is getting too hard a time here. Argue with her or ignore her.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,995
    FF43 said:

    Fascinating chart. Thatcher really hated poor people but loved the rich. Blair was head and shoulders above any other recent prime minister (shame about Iraq). Major also good. Johnson is the worst.



    https://mobile.twitter.com/DuncanWeldon/status/1507412767707627520

    Remarkable to see this is the first time all groups are suffering a real fall in incomes.
    Makes read through political comparisons somewhat difficult.
    Suspect there is a far greater variation in individuals' outcomes within those cohort than previously, too.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,793
    kinabalu said:

    I think 'Russian Troll' is an overdetected condition as regards on here.

    Da!
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,130
    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Second.

    It’s still possible the Tories come to their senses before the GE.

    As in ditching Boris?

    I think Labour would be delighted to be up against Sunak who, as Mike illustrated, is a completely out of touch billionaire investment banker: about the least attractive profession during this terrible cost of living squeeze.

    So if not Sunak, whom? Liz Truss would be made mincemeat. She's completely out of her depth, however much the Daily Express or Telegraph want to channel the spirit of Maggie through her.

    To whom else could they turn? Michael Gove? Loathed by most people. Jeremy Hunt? Better but still loathed. Priti Patel? Loathed.

    Who? With Sunak fading I can't see it happening now. They missed their chance and I'm convinced the people will punish them at the polls.
    While I generally agree, I don't think Jeremy Hunt is 'loathed'. And quite a few people I know who have met Priti Patel 'like' her on a personal basis.
    She can't meet everyone, of course.
    Priti at -59 on Yougov favourability. Makes even "eat nowt to help out" Sunak look good:


    Ben Wallace now the man to beat if and when Boris goes
    Are you sure? Looking at the chart he has the same approval rating as Patel. All the chart tells you is that he's unknown. At best a pig in a poke.
    The chart tells you he has the lowest negative rating of any senior politician and higher net approval now than Sunak and Starmer and Boris, let alone Patel
  • Options
    Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 2,765

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Completely agree with Mike on this. I laid Sunak several months back at a very good profit. The odds on Starmer remain very attractive.

    Meanwhile across the Irish Sea it is beginning to look possible that Sinn Fein will win most seats in the Stormont elections on May 5th, meaning the first ever Sinn Fein First Minister of Northern Ireland. I was lampooned by a couple of people for suggesting this might happen but it's now a real possibility.

    You can get 2/1 on a Irish unification before 01/01/24 with Betfair which I'm probably not tempted by as it's too soon (I think) but the chances of it happening in our lifetimes are immeasurably closer. I was told that this was no big deal. Well it is a big deal. A seismic shift in United Kingdom politics. The seeds of this go back a long way but there's no doubt that Boris Johnson's sell-out of Northern Ireland provides the immediate catalyst. He sacrificed the union for his own political aspirations.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/26/boris-johnson-urged-trigger-article-16-expert-warns-irish-nationalists/

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/03/14/news/-big-shift-election-could-have-major-ramifications-for-stormont-and-constitutional-question-says-nicholas-whyte-2613702/

    2/1 on Irish unification seems rather short in that time frame. It is looking increasingly likely over time though.
    Hmm. Current Tory attitude to Scottish indyref is "who cares if there is a majority of votes and seats for pro-indy, pro-referendum parties? We still say no, we won't let you even have a democratic referendum". Which will be that much harder to justify if the Nirish get one on exactly that basis. Unless they argue that NI is somehow different from the rest of the UK, which is precisely what they have been denying all along while mishandling this aspect of Brexit ...
    It’s a poor error of judgement on their part and one, I suspect, they will come to regret as it will make Indy more, not less, likely.
    No it won't.

    Grant an indyref2 now and it would be at best 50% No 50% Yes.

    Refuse an indyref2 now and that guarantees Scotland stays in the UK.

    If there is an indyref2 it will be a Labour government reliant on SNP support who has to take the risk, as long as this Tory government remains in power it will never allow an indyref2 anyway

    In the short term you get your wish in the medium term I think this makes Indy far more likely than 50/50.


    Not an ounce of diplomacy or understanding, just a no or the tanks will be sent to Berwick
    We have recently discovered that modern tank warfare requires a network of dual carriageways well-maintained at the recipient's expense.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,130

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Completely agree with Mike on this. I laid Sunak several months back at a very good profit. The odds on Starmer remain very attractive.

    Meanwhile across the Irish Sea it is beginning to look possible that Sinn Fein will win most seats in the Stormont elections on May 5th, meaning the first ever Sinn Fein First Minister of Northern Ireland. I was lampooned by a couple of people for suggesting this might happen but it's now a real possibility.

    You can get 2/1 on a Irish unification before 01/01/24 with Betfair which I'm probably not tempted by as it's too soon (I think) but the chances of it happening in our lifetimes are immeasurably closer. I was told that this was no big deal. Well it is a big deal. A seismic shift in United Kingdom politics. The seeds of this go back a long way but there's no doubt that Boris Johnson's sell-out of Northern Ireland provides the immediate catalyst. He sacrificed the union for his own political aspirations.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/26/boris-johnson-urged-trigger-article-16-expert-warns-irish-nationalists/

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/03/14/news/-big-shift-election-could-have-major-ramifications-for-stormont-and-constitutional-question-says-nicholas-whyte-2613702/

    2/1 on Irish unification seems rather short in that time frame. It is looking increasingly likely over time though.
    Hmm. Current Tory attitude to Scottish indyref is "who cares if there is a majority of votes and seats for pro-indy, pro-referendum parties? We still say no, we won't let you even have a democratic referendum". Which will be that much harder to justify if the Nirish get one on exactly that basis. Unless they argue that NI is somehow different from the rest of the UK, which is precisely what they have been denying all along while mishandling this aspect of Brexit ...
    It’s a poor error of judgement on their part and one, I suspect, they will come to regret as it will make Indy more, not less, likely.
    No it won't.

    Grant an indyref2 now and it would be at best 50% No 50% Yes.

    Refuse an indyref2 now and that guarantees Scotland stays in the UK.

    If there is an indyref2 it will be a Labour government reliant on SNP support who has to take the risk, as long as this Tory government remains in power it will never allow an indyref2 anyway

    In the short term you get your wish in the medium term I think this makes Indy far more likely than 50/50.


    Not an ounce of diplomacy or understanding, just a no or the tanks will be sent to Berwick
    Not really, more that Scottish Independence does not matter provided he can blame Labour.
    Oh it does matter and if we have Tory governments forever you can guarantee it will not happen as indyref2 will not be allowed.

    Indyref2 it is clear will only ever happen now with a UK Labour government reliant on SNP support and if they allow it it will be on them to win it
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,130

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Completely agree with Mike on this. I laid Sunak several months back at a very good profit. The odds on Starmer remain very attractive.

    Meanwhile across the Irish Sea it is beginning to look possible that Sinn Fein will win most seats in the Stormont elections on May 5th, meaning the first ever Sinn Fein First Minister of Northern Ireland. I was lampooned by a couple of people for suggesting this might happen but it's now a real possibility.

    You can get 2/1 on a Irish unification before 01/01/24 with Betfair which I'm probably not tempted by as it's too soon (I think) but the chances of it happening in our lifetimes are immeasurably closer. I was told that this was no big deal. Well it is a big deal. A seismic shift in United Kingdom politics. The seeds of this go back a long way but there's no doubt that Boris Johnson's sell-out of Northern Ireland provides the immediate catalyst. He sacrificed the union for his own political aspirations.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/26/boris-johnson-urged-trigger-article-16-expert-warns-irish-nationalists/

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/03/14/news/-big-shift-election-could-have-major-ramifications-for-stormont-and-constitutional-question-says-nicholas-whyte-2613702/

    2/1 on Irish unification seems rather short in that time frame. It is looking increasingly likely over time though.
    Hmm. Current Tory attitude to Scottish indyref is "who cares if there is a majority of votes and seats for pro-indy, pro-referendum parties? We still say no, we won't let you even have a democratic referendum". Which will be that much harder to justify if the Nirish get one on exactly that basis. Unless they argue that NI is somehow different from the rest of the UK, which is precisely what they have been denying all along while mishandling this aspect of Brexit ...
    It’s a poor error of judgement on their part and one, I suspect, they will come to regret as it will make Indy more, not less, likely.
    No it won't.

    Grant an indyref2 now and it would be at best 50% No 50% Yes.

    Refuse an indyref2 now and that guarantees Scotland stays in the UK.

    If there is an indyref2 it will be a Labour government reliant on SNP support who has to take the risk, as long as this Tory government remains in power it will never allow an indyref2 anyway
    Thank you for confirming that whether people vote Tory or not in the upcoming local elections it will have zero effect on protecting the union.
    That's not how the Scottish Tories are campaigning.
    The local elections are irrelevant to the union, only relevant to Scottish council tax and potholes and planning.

    The Scottish Tories will do what they want to maximise their vote, it is the UK Government under Boris which will be doing the refusal of indyref2 whatever happens in Scotland
This discussion has been closed.