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Do as I do – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,603
edited March 2022 in General
imageDo as I do – politicalbetting.com

17 months. That’s all it took, though to judge by the outraged comments from Ministers it may as well have been 17 centuries ago, so short are their memories. What happened 17 months ago that could possibly have any relevance today?

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,400
    edited March 2022
    Great header

    Johnson is outraged at P & O. I am sure he is, he certainly should be.

    Oh, and first.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,700
    Yes, I'd made that link too.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    edited March 2022
    Thanks yet again, Cyclefree!

    Beyond the issue of a Minister of Crown green-lighting violations of law - international or otherwise - on grounds of "necessity, my question is this:

    Can CEO of P&O be judged in contempt of the House of Commons? And Lords?

    Ain't got a vote, but sure seems that way to me.

    Just a day or so, to make the point that such pirates can NOT come before a parliamentary committee then brag about breaking the law and their determination to do it again if (they think it) need be.

    EDIT - BTW, do we know approximate size & remuneration of P&O "payroll vote" in Parliament? Am assuming it is greater than zero both ways.
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    This Government is out of ideas. And out of time.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    Flatlander said:

    ping said:

    tlg86 said:

    Lol at Italy.

    WTF?!!!
    Italy 0-1 North Macedonia

    How?
    The strength of Alexander the Great.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,776
    Excellent header. And extraordinary times indeed.

    Did this always [==post war] used to happen, but it never got the publicity?
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,776
    ydoethur said:

    SeaShantyIrish2 said:

    Thanks yet again, Cyclefree!

    Beyond the issue of a Minister of Crown green-lighting violations of law - international or otherwise - on grounds of "necessity, my question is this:

    Can CEO of P&O be judged in contempt of the House of Commons? And Lords?

    Ain't got a vote, but sure seems that way to me.

    Just a day or so, to make the point that such pirates can NOT come before a parliamentary committee then brag about breaking the law and their determination to do it again if (they think it) need be.

    I just cannot understand what he was thinking. Did he really assume that he would be able to say, 'yes we know the law, but it didn't suit us so we ignored it?' and that MPs would accept that?

    This isn't a fecking speeding offence. Either the law applies, or it doesn't. If it does, he's just left his company with no defence at all when he is sued. If it doesn't, then in saying it does he's clearly so stupid he shouldn't even be running the DfE never mind a private company.

    Utter madness. This is a company that whatever its financial state is clearly in the last throes of collapse.
    Now, come on. There's a home for everyone at the DfE.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    I know it was not what I should take away from all this, but Mr Hebblethwaite may just be the most English name I've ever seen.

    I take issue with a part of the final paragraph though. I don't think the outrage is itself faux outrage, it is merely inconsistent and hypocritical outrage given the approach endosed previously.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,718
    ydoethur said:

    SeaShantyIrish2 said:

    Thanks yet again, Cyclefree!

    Beyond the issue of a Minister of Crown green-lighting violations of law - international or otherwise - on grounds of "necessity, my question is this:

    Can CEO of P&O be judged in contempt of the House of Commons? And Lords?

    Ain't got a vote, but sure seems that way to me.

    Just a day or so, to make the point that such pirates can NOT come before a parliamentary committee then brag about breaking the law and their determination to do it again if (they think it) need be.

    I just cannot understand what he was thinking. Did he really assume that he would be able to say, 'yes we know the law, but it didn't suit us so we ignored it?' and that MPs would accept that?

    This isn't a fecking speeding offence. Either the law applies, or it doesn't. If it does, he's just left his company with no defence at all when he is sued. If it doesn't, then in saying it does he's clearly so stupid he shouldn't even be running the DfE never mind a private company.

    Utter madness. This is a company that whatever its financial state is clearly in the last throes of collapse.
    It is an utterly cynical company. They probably worked out that no-one could stop them so decided to go ahead anyway. And may have thought that if Ministers got too cross they could probably point to what Ministers had themselves done/said.

    Plus consultation is not just about whether the plans go ahead. It's also about the amount of compensation paid. The unions might have focused on getting a better package. From what I can see P&O have offered the bare minimum.

  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    kle4 said:

    Flatlander said:

    ping said:

    tlg86 said:

    Lol at Italy.

    WTF?!!!
    Italy 0-1 North Macedonia

    How?
    The strength of Alexander the Great.
    Alexander the Great was Greek.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    dixiedean said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I must say I am vaguely tempted by this.

    https://publicappointments.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/appointment/chair-post-office-limited/

    I know all about culture change and banking. I am independent - possibly too much so, have personal resilience and won't take any shit from anyone. And I have huge experience clearing up other's shit. Etc etc.

    On the other hand it wouldn't exactly be an easy life ...

    Hmm .....🤔

    ". I am independent - possibly too much so, have personal resilience and won't take any shit from anyone"

    Things NOT to say at an interview with this lot.
    Yes, take the George Costanza approach . . . and say the opposite!
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,741
    kle4 said:

    I know it was not what I should take away from all this, but Mr Hebblethwaite may just be the most English name I've ever seen.

    I take issue with a part of the final paragraph though. I don't think the outrage is itself faux outrage, it is merely inconsistent and hypocritical outrage given the approach endosed previously.

    I think it's pretty faux, unless those expressing outrage call for consequences, such as removing P&O from involvement in more profitable affairs such as free ports. If there are no financial consequences, a certain type of businessman will conclude that the worst that happens when you ignore your obligations is a rubbishing in a Select Committee.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    Cyclefree said:

    ydoethur said:

    SeaShantyIrish2 said:

    Thanks yet again, Cyclefree!

    Beyond the issue of a Minister of Crown green-lighting violations of law - international or otherwise - on grounds of "necessity, my question is this:

    Can CEO of P&O be judged in contempt of the House of Commons? And Lords?

    Ain't got a vote, but sure seems that way to me.

    Just a day or so, to make the point that such pirates can NOT come before a parliamentary committee then brag about breaking the law and their determination to do it again if (they think it) need be.

    I just cannot understand what he was thinking. Did he really assume that he would be able to say, 'yes we know the law, but it didn't suit us so we ignored it?' and that MPs would accept that?

    This isn't a fecking speeding offence. Either the law applies, or it doesn't. If it does, he's just left his company with no defence at all when he is sued. If it doesn't, then in saying it does he's clearly so stupid he shouldn't even be running the DfE never mind a private company.

    Utter madness. This is a company that whatever its financial state is clearly in the last throes of collapse.
    It is an utterly cynical company. They probably worked out that no-one could stop them so decided to go ahead anyway. And may have thought that if Ministers got too cross they could probably point to what Ministers had themselves done/said.

    Plus consultation is not just about whether the plans go ahead. It's also about the amount of compensation paid. The unions might have focused on getting a better package. From what I can see P&O have offered the bare minimum.

    I'm honestly surprised this sort of comment doesn't happen more often. At lower levels there's any number of things which may well be even criminal but everyone knows the police couldn't give a rat's arse about, as they focus on other matters (beating up protestors and paying for lawyers to object to rulings, probably), and so in practice even if anyone reported it nothing would happen.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    kle4 said:

    Flatlander said:

    ping said:

    tlg86 said:

    Lol at Italy.

    WTF?!!!
    Italy 0-1 North Macedonia

    How?
    The strength of Alexander the Great.
    Oh, come on - that's a load of Bucephalushit!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    edited March 2022
    Aslan said:

    kle4 said:

    Flatlander said:

    ping said:

    tlg86 said:

    Lol at Italy.

    WTF?!!!
    Italy 0-1 North Macedonia

    How?
    The strength of Alexander the Great.
    Alexander the Great was Greek.
    To think I may have, entirely inadvertently to be sure, tweaked the nose of the Greeks who spent decades moaning like children about their northern neighbour using the name Macedonia out of some misplaced attempt at guarding their own history.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    NickPalmer said:

    kle4 said:

    I know it was not what I should take away from all this, but Mr Hebblethwaite may just be the most English name I've ever seen.

    I take issue with a part of the final paragraph though. I don't think the outrage is itself faux outrage, it is merely inconsistent and hypocritical outrage given the approach endosed previously.

    I think it's pretty faux, unless those expressing outrage call for consequences, such as removing P&O from involvement in more profitable affairs such as free ports. If there are no financial consequences, a certain type of businessman will conclude that the worst that happens when you ignore your obligations is a rubbishing in a Select Committee.
    If that is your bar for determining if it is faux then 95% of political comments are such.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,718
    kle4 said:

    I know it was not what I should take away from all this, but Mr Hebblethwaite may just be the most English name I've ever seen.

    I take issue with a part of the final paragraph though. I don't think the outrage is itself faux outrage, it is merely inconsistent and hypocritical outrage given the approach endosed previously.

    It's a very Lake District name: Bassenthwaite, Rossthwaite etc. Thwaite means wild land cleared for cultivation.

    The outrage is the outrage at seeing one's own failings replayed to you, realising this so shouting loudly in the hope no-one will notice.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    Foxy said:

    Apart from any moral qualms, who would want to sail on a ferry operated by an underpaid scratch crew? It must be a safety concern.

    I prefer being ferried around by people who are mistreated, poorly trained and poorly equipped - the potential for disaster and/or staff uprising against the hated poshos really adds some spice to the experience.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,627
    Brilliant header @Cyclefree!

    Since P&O have admitted that they knowingly broke the law, does anyone know what the maximum punishment is?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,800
    A very fine header cyclefree.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,776
    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    I know it was not what I should take away from all this, but Mr Hebblethwaite may just be the most English name I've ever seen.

    I take issue with a part of the final paragraph though. I don't think the outrage is itself faux outrage, it is merely inconsistent and hypocritical outrage given the approach endosed previously.

    "thwaite" is Norse word, meaning "meadow". I don't know who or what a hebble is.
    I think it is cognate with "hip" (heope) as in "hips and haws". But your mileage may vary, as it might also be a dialect for bridge. It's a weird compound anyway; because it doesn't show up as a name until C14 according good old https://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Hebblethwaite but has both Anglo Saxon and Norse roots in it.

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Does this idiocy - words & deeds - by P&O present opportunity for Labour to call for
    > contempt proceedings & judgement versus P&O CEO
    > new legislation and/or enforcement/use of existing law, regulations, etc. to outlaw/prevent/punish P&O's actions re: maritime employment AND passenger safety

    Somebody ought to do it, the sooner the better - aye, mateys, aye!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I must say I am vaguely tempted by this.

    https://publicappointments.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/appointment/chair-post-office-limited/

    I know all about culture change and banking. I am independent - possibly too much so, have personal resilience and won't take any shit from anyone. And I have huge experience clearing up other's shit. Etc etc.

    On the other hand it wouldn't exactly be an easy life ...

    Hmm .....🤔

    ". I am independent - possibly too much so, have personal resilience and won't take any shit from anyone"

    Things NOT to say at an interview with this lot.
    I am a competent woman who has put the right people in prison. Isn't it about time you tried appointing someone who's good at her job?

    What on earth makes you think they are looking for someone like that? That'd make them look bad.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,522
    Northern_Al said:

    An excellent header.

    Hebblethwaite: I'm really sorry about the way we treated our workers, and I regret breaking the law.
    MP: Would you do the same again?
    Hebblethwaite: Oh yes, absolutely - no problem.

    As apologies go, it's up there with Johnson's faux apologies for attending parties that never happened because they were work events.

    The yawning gap between ‘I’m sorry if’ and ‘I’m sorry for.’ See also Prince Charmless and his meaningless blather about the stain of slavery.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,403
    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    This Government is out of ideas. And out of time.

    It's not out of time, the next election is about 30-33 months away. That's ages.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,752
    The government rarely breaks its own laws and publicly admits it.

    Far more often, however, it conducts pointless consultations to rubber-stamp foregone conclusions. Having worked in government for many years I've seen more than my fair share of those. I can certainly understand the management's impatience with them, however much lawyers love them.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,718
    Benpointer said:

    Brilliant header @Cyclefree!

    Since P&O have admitted that they knowingly broke the law, does anyone know what the maximum punishment is?

    It's not the criminal law. They have failed to comply with employment law. The remedies are usually either an injunction to stop the company acting and/or compensation.

    The more interesting question is what the company's underlying financial situation is and whether directors are in breach of various company law requirements, some of which may involve personal liability on the company's directors.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    Fishing said:

    The government rarely breaks its own laws and publicly admits it.

    Far more often, however, it conducts pointless consultations to rubber-stamp foregone conclusions. Having worked in government for many years I've seen more than my fair share of those. I can certainly understand the management's impatience with them, however much lawyers love them.

    They are usually rubber stamping, yes, but like justice needing to be seen to be done, it is important for decision makers to prove they follow correct processes. It at least gives the possibility of catching errors and changing tune, and that possibilitu cannot be discounted as worthless.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    PERSONAL STATEMENT

    As a old seadog, with more saltwater down the hatch than you've had hot tea AND warm beer, I am outraged by the outrageous acts perpetrated by the buccaneers at the helm of the P&0.

    I'd say such dastards deserve keelhauling IF it warn't too good for such foul flotsam.

    Yr quasi-obedient s'rv'nt,

    Captain Crunch
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,120
    Johnson agrees to go on Newsnight.

    Truly the Ukr war has changed the world!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,350
    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    I know it was not what I should take away from all this, but Mr Hebblethwaite may just be the most English name I've ever seen.

    I take issue with a part of the final paragraph though. I don't think the outrage is itself faux outrage, it is merely inconsistent and hypocritical outrage given the approach endosed previously.

    "thwaite" is Norse word, meaning "meadow". I don't know who or what a hebble is.
    https://www.ancestry.com/name-origin?surname=hebble#:~:text=Hebble Family History-,Hebble Name Meaning,nook', 'hollow'.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,718
    edited March 2022
    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I must say I am vaguely tempted by this.

    https://publicappointments.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/appointment/chair-post-office-limited/

    I know all about culture change and banking. I am independent - possibly too much so, have personal resilience and won't take any shit from anyone. And I have huge experience clearing up other's shit. Etc etc.

    On the other hand it wouldn't exactly be an easy life ...

    Hmm .....🤔

    ". I am independent - possibly too much so, have personal resilience and won't take any shit from anyone"

    Things NOT to say at an interview with this lot.
    I am a competent woman who has put the right people in prison. Isn't it about time you tried appointing someone who's good at her job?

    What on earth makes you think they are looking for someone like that? That'd make them look bad.
    You're breaking my heart.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,717
    We fought wars over establishing the principle that even the Monarch was not above the Law.

    Hopefully it won't come to that, but the longer we leave it the worse it will get. The current government have scant regard for the law. The opposition have many failings, surely many grievous failings, but there can be few things that are as important or fundamental as respect for the rule of law.

    Lawmakers cannot be lawbreakers. All those with respect for the law must do all that they can to drive the Tories from office. When there are in opposition they will learn that one function of the law is to protect those not in power from those who are, and hopefully they will remember the next time they are in power.
  • Old_HandOld_Hand Posts: 51
    I hope someone has made the point that P&O Ferries is a completely separate business from P&O Cruises. The tendency of journalists and others just to refer to P&O may save keystrokes but it can unfairly malign a business from which the ferries were separated more than 20 years ago. The recent behaviour of P&O Ferries is inexcusable.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,627
    Cyclefree said:

    Benpointer said:

    Brilliant header @Cyclefree!

    Since P&O have admitted that they knowingly broke the law, does anyone know what the maximum punishment is?

    It's not the criminal law. They have failed to comply with employment law. The remedies are usually either an injunction to stop the company acting and/or compensation.

    The more interesting question is what the company's underlying financial situation is and whether directors are in breach of various company law requirements, some of which may involve personal liability on the company's directors.
    Ah right, thanks.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    dixiedean said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    I know it was not what I should take away from all this, but Mr Hebblethwaite may just be the most English name I've ever seen.

    I take issue with a part of the final paragraph though. I don't think the outrage is itself faux outrage, it is merely inconsistent and hypocritical outrage given the approach endosed previously.

    "thwaite" is Norse word, meaning "meadow". I don't know who or what a hebble is.
    https://www.ancestry.com/name-origin?surname=hebble#:~:text=Hebble Family History-,Hebble Name Meaning,nook', 'hollow'.
    Only Hebblethwaite I've heard of is Peter Hebblethwaite a leading Vaticanologist in his day.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,314
    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Fishing said:

    The government rarely breaks its own laws and publicly admits it.

    Far more often, however, it conducts pointless consultations to rubber-stamp foregone conclusions. Having worked in government for many years I've seen more than my fair share of those. I can certainly understand the management's impatience with them, however much lawyers love them.

    They are usually rubber stamping, yes, but like justice needing to be seen to be done, it is important for decision makers to prove they follow correct processes. It at least gives the possibility of catching errors and changing tune, and that possibilitu cannot be discounted as worthless.
    In any case, injustice delayed is better than injustice NOW!
    Besides, having to stand up and justify shitty acts in front of another person does act as a disincentive for shitty behaviour. See not only the decision not to consult, but also the sacking-by-video-message.

    Doesn't work for everyone, of course.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,717
    Foxy said:

    Apart from any moral qualms, who would want to sail on a ferry operated by an underpaid scratch crew? It must be a safety concern.

    No, it's fine. Just make sure you've named a nominee to receive the compensation payment for your death before you board.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,718
    kyf_100 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I must say I am vaguely tempted by this.

    https://publicappointments.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/appointment/chair-post-office-limited/

    I know all about culture change and banking. I am independent - possibly too much so, have personal resilience and won't take any shit from anyone. And I have huge experience clearing up other's shit. Etc etc.

    On the other hand it wouldn't exactly be an easy life ...

    Hmm .....🤔

    ". I am independent - possibly too much so, have personal resilience and won't take any shit from anyone"

    Things NOT to say at an interview with this lot.
    I'm half inclined to write -

    "Unlike Cressida Dick, Dido Harding and Paula Vennells, I am a competent woman who has put the right people in prison. Isn't it about time you tried appointing someone who's good at her job?"

    I may dress it up a bit .....

    I'd go with something like, "I've always pushed the envelope in my career, now I'm looking for a job I can stamp my authority on. I know how to lay down the letter of the law without resorting to parcelling out blame. I'm the full package, and I always deliver. As an applicant, I am simply first class."

    Ah, my coats.
    😁 Tempting. Very tempting .....
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    This is a brilliant header - an absolute masterpiece. Linking the Johnsonian casualness towards the "law" with the conduct of P&O ferries. Not an angle I thought of.

    I also think that P&O probably made a ruthless but ultimately brilliant calculation. The pay off the workers get may well be better than may otherwise have been the case had the company gone in to a protacted industrial relations struggle and subsequently gone bust.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,361
    HYUFD said:

    #RishiAntoinette now trending on twitter

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10647291/Rishi-Sunak-refuses-answer-questions-wifes-stake-Indian-firm-Russian-connections.html

    "Rishi Sunak refuses to answer questions about his millionaire wife's stake in Indian firm with Russian connections amid western sanctions after being asked if his family 'could be benefitting from Putin's regime'."
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    SeaShantyIrish2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    I know it was not what I should take away from all this, but Mr Hebblethwaite may just be the most English name I've ever seen.

    I take issue with a part of the final paragraph though. I don't think the outrage is itself faux outrage, it is merely inconsistent and hypocritical outrage given the approach endosed previously.

    "thwaite" is Norse word, meaning "meadow". I don't know who or what a hebble is.
    https://www.ancestry.com/name-origin?surname=hebble#:~:text=Hebble Family History-,Hebble Name Meaning,nook', 'hollow'.
    Only Hebblethwaite I've heard of is Peter Hebblethwaite a leading Vaticanologist in his day.
    The good folk at wikipedia don't waste any time

  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    Rishi is falling faster than Johnson at this rate
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,120
    Johnson tells Newsnight that Ukr could end up being supported by NATO in a "deterrence of denial".

    Sounds like a virtual NATO associate status without the article 5.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,718
    darkage said:

    This is a brilliant header - an absolute masterpiece. Linking the Johnsonian casualness towards the "law" with the conduct of P&O ferries. Not an angle I thought of.

    I also think that P&O probably made a ruthless but ultimately brilliant calculation. The pay off the workers get may well be better than may otherwise have been the case had the company gone in to a protacted industrial relations struggle and subsequently gone bust.

    Thank you.

    It was the first thing that came to mind as I heard Huw Merriman, Chair of the Select Committe, on the WATO today driving home from Keswick.

    How long do you think before someone in Labour makes the same point? Or a journalist asks it of a Tory MP?

    People have no memory. One of the skills of an investigator is having a bloody good memory and the ability to see links, spot patterns, make connections. It's what MPs and journalists should be doing too.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,386
    edited March 2022
    Foxy said:

    Apart from any moral qualms, who would want to sail on a ferry operated by an underpaid scratch crew? It must be a safety concern.

    That's a tad xenophobic is it not? My understanding is that like nursing, given the likes of the Philippines is traditionally a maritime nation and accounts for one fifth of the world’s seagoing personnel, and it is considered a very reliable source for quality seafarers.

    What was revealed today is that the union claims of £2 / hr don't appear to be true. The P&O boss stated min it is £5.5-6.0 / hr, which is above international averages for these jobs.

    Doesn't make P&O actions morally right, but it isn't instantly true that because Johnny Foreigner Filipinos on £6/hr means it is a safety concern, anymore than the NHS hiring in lots of trained Filipino nurses over the past 15 years.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    In a way, dropping the pretence would count as progress

    From BBC:

    About 2,700 people were able to leave the besieged and destroyed city of Mariupol today, Ukraine's deputy prime minister says...

    Russia has taken control of parts of the city. In one such area it handed out supplies to hundreds of residents who emerged from their places of shelter, according to a Reuters news report from the city.

    At the scene was Denis Pushilin, the leader of the Russian-backed separatist enclave of Donetsk, as well as an official from Putin's United Russia party, Andrei Turchak, according to pro-Russian separatist media.

    Turchak wrote on his Telegram channel that Russia would rebuild Mariupol but added - "Make no mistake, Russia is here forever".
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,870
    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    I know it was not what I should take away from all this, but Mr Hebblethwaite may just be the most English name I've ever seen.

    I take issue with a part of the final paragraph though. I don't think the outrage is itself faux outrage, it is merely inconsistent and hypocritical outrage given the approach endosed previously.

    "thwaite" is Norse word, meaning "meadow". I don't know who or what a hebble is.
    I believe it's short for "cockwomble".
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,795
    edited March 2022
    Talking about impropriety. Gove and friends awarding PPE contracts to a recently incorporated company with 'links' to a Conservative peer.

    (All using private emails for some part of it....)

    'Private emails reveal Gove’s role in Tory-linked firm’s PPE deals'
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/mar/24/michael-gove-private-emails-ppe-deals-tory-linked-firms

    Seems like scummery to me.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,752
    kle4 said:

    Fishing said:

    The government rarely breaks its own laws and publicly admits it.

    Far more often, however, it conducts pointless consultations to rubber-stamp foregone conclusions. Having worked in government for many years I've seen more than my fair share of those. I can certainly understand the management's impatience with them, however much lawyers love them.

    They are usually rubber stamping, yes, but like justice needing to be seen to be done, it is important for decision makers to prove they follow correct processes. It at least gives the possibility of catching errors and changing tune, and that possibilitu cannot be discounted as worthless.
    It is not worthless, but on the other hand consultation is not costless either. Where the right dividing line is, is of course a matter of opinion.

    I can see why government decisions should be subject to consultation, because the government has no profit incentive to get the answer right in the way that the private sector does, and has powers of compulsion that businesses do not have.

    But management should be allowed to manage, with the bottom line the judge of whether or not the decision was correct.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,120
    Now and again, one is reminded of Johnson's strange brilliance.

    Asked by Nick Watt about partygate, the PM manages to turn the question around to be about why a free press that can ask such questions is so important and how it would never happen in Putin's Russia. Putin he says would never have invaded Ukr if journalists such as Watt could ask him questions all the time about why he thought it would work or was a good idea.

    Naturally, Johnson did not answer the original question. But still...

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,438
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Foxy said:

    Apart from any moral qualms, who would want to sail on a ferry operated by an underpaid scratch crew? It must be a safety concern.

    That's a tad xenophobic is it not? My understanding is that like nursing, given the likes of the Philippines is traditionally a maritime nation and accounts for one fifth of the world’s seagoing personnel, and it is considered a very reliable source for quality seafarers.

    What was revealed today is that the union claims of £2 / hr don't appear to be true. The P&O boss stated min it is £5.5-6.0 / hr, which is above international averages for these jobs.

    Doesn't make P&O actions morally right, but it isn't instantly true that because Johnny Foreigner Filipinos on £6/hr means it is a safety concern, anymore than the NHS hiring in lots of trained Filipino nurses over the past 15 years.
    I am not doubting the professional abilities of Philipinos, or whoever. Just that any entirely new crew takes time to work as a team and in a safe way.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,677
    edited March 2022
    TimT said:

    Been comparing the Ukrainian MOD figures for Russian casualties (first number) with the confirmed kills from Oryx (number in parentheses).

    One would certainly expect the numbers of actual casualties to be way higher than the Oryx figure, given each claimed kill there has to have been photographed and identified as a unique vehicle. But what do PBers think: given the lower Oryx figures, are the UkrMOD figures credible?

    UkrMOD/(Oryx)


    Aircraft: 108 (15)
    Helos: 124 (35)

    The Ukrainians are obviously lying for obvious reasons but the aircraft claims are just ridiculous. When you've got one pilot who has claimed more kills in a week than the best three Israeli jet aces got over their entire careers combined you know you're in piss take territory.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    rottenborough said:

    Now and again, one is reminded of Johnson's strange brilliance.

    Asked by Nick Watt about partygate, the PM manages to turn the question around to be about why a free press that can ask such questions is so important and how it would never happen in Putin's Russia. Putin he says would never have invaded Ukr if journalists such as Watt could ask him questions all the time about why he thought it would work or was a good idea.

    Naturally, Johnson did not answer the original question. But still...

    I don't think anyone has ever denied Johnson's brilliance at evading responsibility.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    rottenborough said:

    Now and again, one is reminded of Johnson's strange brilliance.

    Asked by Nick Watt about partygate, the PM manages to turn the question around to be about why a free press that can ask such questions is so important and how it would never happen in Putin's Russia. Putin he says would never have invaded Ukr if journalists such as Watt could ask him questions all the time about why he thought it would work or was a good idea.

    Naturally, Johnson did not answer the original question. But still...

    I think to be a brilliant example it shouldn't feel like I'm getting whiplash from the change in subject matter.

    Not that he is without political skill, I think those of us who dislike him can fall into that trap and pretend it is all down to luck or something, but not sure that is a very good example of it.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,718
    rottenborough said:

    Now and again, one is reminded of Johnson's strange brilliance.

    Asked by Nick Watt about partygate, the PM manages to turn the question around to be about why a free press that can ask such questions is so important and how it would never happen in Putin's Russia. Putin he says would never have invaded Ukr if journalists such as Watt could ask him questions all the time about why he thought it would work or was a good idea.

    Naturally, Johnson did not answer the original question. But still...

    "How did that work with Blair and Iraq, PM?" should have been Nick Watts' next question.
  • Gary_BurtonGary_Burton Posts: 737
    Good Tory hold in Seghill and Seaton Delaval in Northumberland. Tories hold their Majority on the council. Well done for Stodge and dixiedean for calling it.

    Labour certainly has major issues at a local level in Blyth Valley constituency which was apparent last year. Labour also got 73% in this ward in 2013.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,870
    Dura_Ace said:

    TimT said:

    Been comparing the Ukrainian MOD figures for Russian casualties (first number) with the confirmed kills from Oryx (number in parentheses).

    One would certainly expect the numbers of actual casualties to be way higher than the Oryx figure, given each claimed kill there has to have been photographed and identified as a unique vehicle. But what do PBers think: given the lower Oryx figures, are the UkrMOD figures credible?

    UkrMOD/(Oryx)


    Aircraft: 108 (15)
    Helos: 124 (35)

    The Ukrainians are obviously lying for obvious reasons but the aircraft claims are just ridiculous. When you've got one pilot who has claimed more kills in a week than the best three Israeli jet aces got over their entire careers combined you know you're in piss take territory.
    Hard to tell what's a UAV and what's a piloted aircraft from a distance too.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,759
    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    I know it was not what I should take away from all this, but Mr Hebblethwaite may just be the most English name I've ever seen.

    I take issue with a part of the final paragraph though. I don't think the outrage is itself faux outrage, it is merely inconsistent and hypocritical outrage given the approach endosed previously.

    "thwaite" is Norse word, meaning "meadow". I don't know who or what a hebble is.
    There is of course a river Hebble in Yorkshire.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,718
    Foxy said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Foxy said:

    Apart from any moral qualms, who would want to sail on a ferry operated by an underpaid scratch crew? It must be a safety concern.

    That's a tad xenophobic is it not? My understanding is that like nursing, given the likes of the Philippines is traditionally a maritime nation and accounts for one fifth of the world’s seagoing personnel, and it is considered a very reliable source for quality seafarers.

    What was revealed today is that the union claims of £2 / hr don't appear to be true. The P&O boss stated min it is £5.5-6.0 / hr, which is above international averages for these jobs.

    Doesn't make P&O actions morally right, but it isn't instantly true that because Johnny Foreigner Filipinos on £6/hr means it is a safety concern, anymore than the NHS hiring in lots of trained Filipino nurses over the past 15 years.
    I am not doubting the professional abilities of Philipinos, or whoever. Just that any entirely new crew takes time to work as a team and in a safe way.
    Quite. Poor workplace communication and a stand off relationship between crew and supervisors were two of the reasons for the Zeebrugge disaster in 1987.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,688
    FPT
    Malmesbury said:

    Endillion said:

    BartholomewRoberts said:

    rottenborough said:

    John 'make BBC like netflix' Whittingdale as head of Ofcom?

    That John?

    Its hard to imagine right now the BBC becoming as good as Netflix, but why cap their ambitions?

    If the BBC think they can rival Netflix in the future, good luck to them, if they can find the subscribers.
    On current trend, give it a few more years, and Netflix will become as good as the BBC.
    In a relatively few years, the BBC will cease non-internet broadcasting. The frequencies will be reused for other purposes.

    The BBC will be a streaming service, delivering all content by that mechanism.

    On the other hand, maybe in a few years' time people will get sick of using the internet for everything and go back to using analogue technology.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,759
    Dura_Ace said:

    TimT said:

    Been comparing the Ukrainian MOD figures for Russian casualties (first number) with the confirmed kills from Oryx (number in parentheses).

    One would certainly expect the numbers of actual casualties to be way higher than the Oryx figure, given each claimed kill there has to have been photographed and identified as a unique vehicle. But what do PBers think: given the lower Oryx figures, are the UkrMOD figures credible?

    UkrMOD/(Oryx)


    Aircraft: 108 (15)
    Helos: 124 (35)

    The Ukrainians are obviously lying for obvious reasons but the aircraft claims are just ridiculous. When you've got one pilot who has claimed more kills in a week than the best three Israeli jet aces got over their entire careers combined you know you're in piss take territory.
    See similar numbers for over enthusiastic claims from the Battle of Britain.
    But the lower figures are likely an underestimate, even if not massively so.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,688
    Congratulations Eve Chicken.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    rcs1000 said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    I know it was not what I should take away from all this, but Mr Hebblethwaite may just be the most English name I've ever seen.

    I take issue with a part of the final paragraph though. I don't think the outrage is itself faux outrage, it is merely inconsistent and hypocritical outrage given the approach endosed previously.

    "thwaite" is Norse word, meaning "meadow". I don't know who or what a hebble is.
    I believe it's short for "cockwomble".
    Is that something that features in Jennifer Acuri's latest revelations re: Boris Johnson?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,120
    kle4 said:

    rottenborough said:

    Now and again, one is reminded of Johnson's strange brilliance.

    Asked by Nick Watt about partygate, the PM manages to turn the question around to be about why a free press that can ask such questions is so important and how it would never happen in Putin's Russia. Putin he says would never have invaded Ukr if journalists such as Watt could ask him questions all the time about why he thought it would work or was a good idea.

    Naturally, Johnson did not answer the original question. But still...

    I think to be a brilliant example it shouldn't feel like I'm getting whiplash from the change in subject matter.

    Not that he is without political skill, I think those of us who dislike him can fall into that trap and pretend it is all down to luck or something, but not sure that is a very good example of it.
    Yes, it is certainly a factor that those of us who usually dismiss him and all his works can miss his abilities.

  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,822
    Cyclefree said:

    rottenborough said:

    Now and again, one is reminded of Johnson's strange brilliance.

    Asked by Nick Watt about partygate, the PM manages to turn the question around to be about why a free press that can ask such questions is so important and how it would never happen in Putin's Russia. Putin he says would never have invaded Ukr if journalists such as Watt could ask him questions all the time about why he thought it would work or was a good idea.

    Naturally, Johnson did not answer the original question. But still...

    "How did that work with Blair and Iraq, PM?" should have been Nick Watts' next question.
    To which the reply would presumably be that only a complete moron would imply any moral equivalence between anything in Iraq and Ukraine.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,386
    edited March 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    Malmesbury said:

    Endillion said:

    BartholomewRoberts said:

    rottenborough said:

    John 'make BBC like netflix' Whittingdale as head of Ofcom?

    That John?

    Its hard to imagine right now the BBC becoming as good as Netflix, but why cap their ambitions?

    If the BBC think they can rival Netflix in the future, good luck to them, if they can find the subscribers.
    On current trend, give it a few more years, and Netflix will become as good as the BBC.
    In a relatively few years, the BBC will cease non-internet broadcasting. The frequencies will be reused for other purposes.

    The BBC will be a streaming service, delivering all content by that mechanism.

    On the other hand, maybe in a few years' time people will get sick of using the internet for everything and go back to using analogue technology.
    And pigs might fly.....

    One real danger is too much fragmentation. We have gone from Netflix being THE streaming service, to Amazon, Disney+ / Hulu, Discovery+, HBO, etc etc etc all in a couple of years. I think could be a big mistake. The reason Spotify works is it is basically a one stop shop for all the music you need (the odd artist not being on there really doesn't detract from your experience).

    I presume what we will see is bundling, but still if it becomes something stupid per month, people aren't going to dig it for long.

    BBC are at a crossroads. If they choose to fight to the death for another 10 years of the current model, they aren't going to die, but totally unenforceable licence fee, young people uninterested, they will just keep falling further and further behind.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,120
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    rottenborough said:

    Now and again, one is reminded of Johnson's strange brilliance.

    Asked by Nick Watt about partygate, the PM manages to turn the question around to be about why a free press that can ask such questions is so important and how it would never happen in Putin's Russia. Putin he says would never have invaded Ukr if journalists such as Watt could ask him questions all the time about why he thought it would work or was a good idea.

    Naturally, Johnson did not answer the original question. But still...

    I don't think anyone has ever denied Johnson's brilliance at evading responsibility.
    Indeed. But he has a rare talent as to how he goes about that job of work.

    It takes an imaginative sod to turn questions about his moral behaviour into a riff about the free press in Russia.

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,688
    edited March 2022
    The Northumberland election is a ward in the Blyth Valley constituency that went Tory for the first time at the last GE.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Cyclefree said:

    Foxy said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Foxy said:

    Apart from any moral qualms, who would want to sail on a ferry operated by an underpaid scratch crew? It must be a safety concern.

    That's a tad xenophobic is it not? My understanding is that like nursing, given the likes of the Philippines is traditionally a maritime nation and accounts for one fifth of the world’s seagoing personnel, and it is considered a very reliable source for quality seafarers.

    What was revealed today is that the union claims of £2 / hr don't appear to be true. The P&O boss stated min it is £5.5-6.0 / hr, which is above international averages for these jobs.

    Doesn't make P&O actions morally right, but it isn't instantly true that because Johnny Foreigner Filipinos on £6/hr means it is a safety concern, anymore than the NHS hiring in lots of trained Filipino nurses over the past 15 years.
    I am not doubting the professional abilities of Philipinos, or whoever. Just that any entirely new crew takes time to work as a team and in a safe way.
    Quite. Poor workplace communication and a stand off relationship between crew and supervisors were two of the reasons for the Zeebrugge disaster in 1987.
    Along with flouting safety rules to meet turn around times (i.e. profits) and working crew so hard they (he) literally fell asleep on the job, while another notices the bow doors were open but did nothing about it (or even tell anyone) because it was not his job.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,350
    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    I know it was not what I should take away from all this, but Mr Hebblethwaite may just be the most English name I've ever seen.

    I take issue with a part of the final paragraph though. I don't think the outrage is itself faux outrage, it is merely inconsistent and hypocritical outrage given the approach endosed previously.

    "thwaite" is Norse word, meaning "meadow". I don't know who or what a hebble is.
    https://www.ancestry.com/name-origin?surname=hebble#:~:text=Hebble Family History-,Hebble Name Meaning,nook', 'hollow'.
    Andy_JS said:

    Congratulations Eve Chicken.

    The entrails were dissected and foretold downthread.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,120
    Andy_JS said:

    The Northumberland election is a ward in the Blyth Valley constituency that went Tory for the first time at the last GE.

    Interesting!
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,718
    biggles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    rottenborough said:

    Now and again, one is reminded of Johnson's strange brilliance.

    Asked by Nick Watt about partygate, the PM manages to turn the question around to be about why a free press that can ask such questions is so important and how it would never happen in Putin's Russia. Putin he says would never have invaded Ukr if journalists such as Watt could ask him questions all the time about why he thought it would work or was a good idea.

    Naturally, Johnson did not answer the original question. But still...

    "How did that work with Blair and Iraq, PM?" should have been Nick Watts' next question.
    To which the reply would presumably be that only a complete moron would imply any moral equivalence between anything in Iraq and Ukraine.
    You're missing the point. We had a free press asking questions of the PM. It did not stop him making a mistake over Iraq. Boris's implication that in a free country with a free press bad foreign policy mistakes are avoided is simply not borne out by our own recent history.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,759
    Cyclefree said:

    Benpointer said:

    Brilliant header @Cyclefree!

    Since P&O have admitted that they knowingly broke the law, does anyone know what the maximum punishment is?

    It's not the criminal law. They have failed to comply with employment law. The remedies are usually either an injunction to stop the company acting and/or compensation.

    The more interesting question is what the company's underlying financial situation is and whether directors are in breach of various company law requirements, some of which may involve personal liability on the company's directors.
    Breach of the statutory duty to consult does leave open the company to an unlimited fine.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,522
    Why doesn’t Kate Andrews just join the Tory party and stop pretending that she’s an objective commentator? Their current mutation must correspond pretty well with her world view.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,120
    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    Malmesbury said:

    Endillion said:

    BartholomewRoberts said:

    rottenborough said:

    John 'make BBC like netflix' Whittingdale as head of Ofcom?

    That John?

    Its hard to imagine right now the BBC becoming as good as Netflix, but why cap their ambitions?

    If the BBC think they can rival Netflix in the future, good luck to them, if they can find the subscribers.
    On current trend, give it a few more years, and Netflix will become as good as the BBC.
    In a relatively few years, the BBC will cease non-internet broadcasting. The frequencies will be reused for other purposes.

    The BBC will be a streaming service, delivering all content by that mechanism.

    On the other hand, maybe in a few years' time people will get sick of using the internet for everything and go back to using analogue technology.
    The word "relatively" is doing a hell of a lot of work in the first post.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,688
    rottenborough said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The Northumberland election is a ward in the Blyth Valley constituency that went Tory for the first time at the last GE.

    Interesting!
    3% swing to the Tories since May this year.

    https://vote-2012.proboards.com/post/1219967/thread
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,538
    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I must say I am vaguely tempted by this.

    https://publicappointments.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/appointment/chair-post-office-limited/

    I know all about culture change and banking. I am independent - possibly too much so, have personal resilience and won't take any shit from anyone. And I have huge experience clearing up other's shit. Etc etc.

    On the other hand it wouldn't exactly be an easy life ...

    Hmm .....🤔

    ". I am independent - possibly too much so, have personal resilience and won't take any shit from anyone"

    Things NOT to say at an interview with this lot.
    I'm half inclined to write -

    "Unlike Cressida Dick, Dido Harding and Paula Vennells, I am a competent woman who has put the right people in prison. Isn't it about time you tried appointing someone who's good at her job?"

    I may dress it up a bit .....

    You may have to explain "woman".....

    And then competence. It seems to be an ungrasped concept.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,350
    Andy_JS said:

    The Northumberland election is a ward in the Blyth Valley constituency that went Tory for the first time at the last GE.

    Indeed. But that won't exist next time. Cramlington and Whitley Bay will be a fascinating one. Half a Tory trending new town. The other half a mix of bail hostels and zhizhi hipsterland. Labour territory.
    Blyth and Ashington should be solid Labour.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,120
    Cyclefree said:

    rottenborough said:

    Now and again, one is reminded of Johnson's strange brilliance.

    Asked by Nick Watt about partygate, the PM manages to turn the question around to be about why a free press that can ask such questions is so important and how it would never happen in Putin's Russia. Putin he says would never have invaded Ukr if journalists such as Watt could ask him questions all the time about why he thought it would work or was a good idea.

    Naturally, Johnson did not answer the original question. But still...

    "How did that work with Blair and Iraq, PM?" should have been Nick Watts' next question.
    Blair remained PM for another term.

    Iraq was freed from a sadistic maniac who waged war on his near neighbours.

    Next question.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,759
    rcs1000 said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    TimT said:

    Been comparing the Ukrainian MOD figures for Russian casualties (first number) with the confirmed kills from Oryx (number in parentheses).

    One would certainly expect the numbers of actual casualties to be way higher than the Oryx figure, given each claimed kill there has to have been photographed and identified as a unique vehicle. But what do PBers think: given the lower Oryx figures, are the UkrMOD figures credible?

    UkrMOD/(Oryx)


    Aircraft: 108 (15)
    Helos: 124 (35)

    The Ukrainians are obviously lying for obvious reasons but the aircraft claims are just ridiculous. When you've got one pilot who has claimed more kills in a week than the best three Israeli jet aces got over their entire careers combined you know you're in piss take territory.
    Hard to tell what's a UAV and what's a piloted aircraft from a distance too.
    Do the official claims include UAVs ?

    Categories can be problematic.
    https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1507048000140595208
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,538
    Gary_Burton said:

    Good Tory hold in Seghill and Seaton Delaval in Northumberland. Tories hold their Majority on the council. Well done for Stodge and dixiedean for calling it.

    Labour certainly has major issues at a local level in Blyth Valley constituency which was apparent last year. Labour also got 73% in this ward in 2013.

    The Budget clearly a disaster in northern red wa...hang on, that can't be right.....
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,759
    Cyclefree said:

    biggles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    rottenborough said:

    Now and again, one is reminded of Johnson's strange brilliance.

    Asked by Nick Watt about partygate, the PM manages to turn the question around to be about why a free press that can ask such questions is so important and how it would never happen in Putin's Russia. Putin he says would never have invaded Ukr if journalists such as Watt could ask him questions all the time about why he thought it would work or was a good idea.

    Naturally, Johnson did not answer the original question. But still...

    "How did that work with Blair and Iraq, PM?" should have been Nick Watts' next question.
    To which the reply would presumably be that only a complete moron would imply any moral equivalence between anything in Iraq and Ukraine.
    You're missing the point. We had a free press asking questions of the PM. It did not stop him making a mistake over Iraq. Boris's implication that in a free country with a free press bad foreign policy mistakes are avoided is simply not borne out by our own recent history.
    His point was ‘why are you asking me about this when there’s a war going on ?’
    Logic isn’t really a feature of his discourse.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,350
    MarqueeMark said:

    Gary_Burton said:

    Good Tory hold in Seghill and Seaton Delaval in Northumberland. Tories hold their Majority on the council. Well done for Stodge and dixiedean for calling it.

    Labour certainly has major issues at a local level in Blyth Valley constituency which was apparent last year. Labour also got 73% in this ward in 2013.

    The Budget clearly a disaster in northern red wa...hang on, that can't be right.....
    If you think Seghill is the Red Wall you clearly haven't visited recently.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,120
    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    biggles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    rottenborough said:

    Now and again, one is reminded of Johnson's strange brilliance.

    Asked by Nick Watt about partygate, the PM manages to turn the question around to be about why a free press that can ask such questions is so important and how it would never happen in Putin's Russia. Putin he says would never have invaded Ukr if journalists such as Watt could ask him questions all the time about why he thought it would work or was a good idea.

    Naturally, Johnson did not answer the original question. But still...

    "How did that work with Blair and Iraq, PM?" should have been Nick Watts' next question.
    To which the reply would presumably be that only a complete moron would imply any moral equivalence between anything in Iraq and Ukraine.
    You're missing the point. We had a free press asking questions of the PM. It did not stop him making a mistake over Iraq. Boris's implication that in a free country with a free press bad foreign policy mistakes are avoided is simply not borne out by our own recent history.
    His point was ‘why are you asking me about this when there’s a war going on ?’
    Logic isn’t really a feature of his discourse.
    No, I don't think that was Johnson's point at all.

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,718
    MarqueeMark said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I must say I am vaguely tempted by this.

    https://publicappointments.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/appointment/chair-post-office-limited/

    I know all about culture change and banking. I am independent - possibly too much so, have personal resilience and won't take any shit from anyone. And I have huge experience clearing up other's shit. Etc etc.

    On the other hand it wouldn't exactly be an easy life ...

    Hmm .....🤔

    ". I am independent - possibly too much so, have personal resilience and won't take any shit from anyone"

    Things NOT to say at an interview with this lot.
    I'm half inclined to write -

    "Unlike Cressida Dick, Dido Harding and Paula Vennells, I am a competent woman who has put the right people in prison. Isn't it about time you tried appointing someone who's good at her job?"

    I may dress it up a bit .....

    You may have to explain "woman".....

    And then competence. It seems to be an ungrasped concept.
    Adult human female.

    Competent woman - someone who cleans up the mess made by others.

    Next ......
  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,668
    Saw these on a Rick Stein-in-Cornwall programme the other day

    Bought one. Hand forged and hand smithed on Bodmin Moor from recycled high-grade car metal (some obscure engine part, I think)

    God's honest truth: this is the best chef's knife I have ever used. Alarmingly sharp. Chops through veg like it is Cornish mist off Carn Brae

    The blade will of course get blunt, and I do not know if I can sharpen it back to its present state. But, its present state is WOW

    https://www.atkinson-art.co.uk/product-category/wolf-dingo-chef-knives-for-valhalla/
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    Leon said:

    Saw these on a Rick Stein-in-Cornwall programme the other day

    Bought one. Hand forged and hand smithed on Bodmin Moor from recycled high-grade car metal (some obscure engine part, I think)

    God's honest truth: this is the best chef's knife I have ever used. Alarmingly sharp. Chops through veg like it is Cornish mist off Carn Brae

    The blade will of course get blunt, and I do not know if I can sharpen it back to its present state. But, its present state is WOW

    https://www.atkinson-art.co.uk/product-category/wolf-dingo-chef-knives-for-valhalla/

    You're looking for sponsorship deals?
  • Gary_BurtonGary_Burton Posts: 737
    Strong Labour hold in Thanet with about 55% of the vote.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,120
    Leon said:

    Saw these on a Rick Stein-in-Cornwall programme the other day

    Bought one. Hand forged and hand smithed on Bodmin Moor from recycled high-grade car metal (some obscure engine part, I think)

    God's honest truth: this is the best chef's knife I have ever used. Alarmingly sharp. Chops through veg like it is Cornish mist off Carn Brae

    The blade will of course get blunt, and I do not know if I can sharpen it back to its present state. But, its present state is WOW

    https://www.atkinson-art.co.uk/product-category/wolf-dingo-chef-knives-for-valhalla/

    Oh, I'm tempted.

    "some obscure engine part" is one for @Dura_Ace though?
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,303
    Leon said:

    Saw these on a Rick Stein-in-Cornwall programme the other day

    Bought one. Hand forged and hand smithed on Bodmin Moor from recycled high-grade car metal (some obscure engine part, I think)

    God's honest truth: this is the best chef's knife I have ever used. Alarmingly sharp. Chops through veg like it is Cornish mist off Carn Brae

    The blade will of course get blunt, and I do not know if I can sharpen it back to its present state. But, its present state is WOW

    https://www.atkinson-art.co.uk/product-category/wolf-dingo-chef-knives-for-valhalla/

    I thought that flint makes some of the sharpest knives? Obviously they blunt pretty fast, but I would have though that would not be a problem for you.
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