In England only in London does Starmer have a “Best PM” lead over Johnson – politicalbetting.com

Theuniondivvie said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Farooq said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Oh it does.

The Republic of Ireland is not in NATO, is not in the Commonwealth, does not share our head of state, was neutral in the Cold War and was officially neutral in WW2.

On no grounds whatsoever is the Republic of Ireland a core member of the Anglosphere. It is outer tier at most.

As I said Churchill opposed Indian independence as did most Tories at the time, it was Attlee and Labour who gave then independence. However I am not answering irrelevant hypotheticals as I am a Tory for now and India is independent in the reality of today

The Cranborne Report
Viscount Cranborne, the British Secretary of State for Dominion Affairs, wrote a letter on 21 February 1945 to the British War Cabinet regarding Irish-British collaboration during 1939–1945:

# They [the Irish] agreed to our use of Lough Foyle for naval and air purposes. The ownership of the Lough is disputed, but the Southern Irish authorities are tacitly not pressing their claim in present conditions and are also ignoring any flying by our aircraft over the Donegal shore of the Lough, which is necessary in certain wind conditions to enable flying boats to take off from the Lough.

1. They have agreed to use by our aircraft based on Lough Erne of a corridor over Southern Irish territory and territorial waters for the purpose of flying out to the Atlantic.
2. They have arranged for the immediate transmission to the United Kingdom Representative's Office in Dublin of reports of submarine activity received from their coast watching service.
3. They arranged for the broadening of reports by their Air observation Corps of aircraft sighted over or approaching Southern Irish territory. (This does not include our aircraft using the corridor referred to in (b) above.)
4. They arranged for the extinction of trade and business lighting in coastal towns where such lighting was alleged to afford a useful landmark for German aircraft.
5. They have continued to supply us with meteorological reports.
6. They have agreed to the use by our ships and aircraft of two wireless direction-finding stations at Malin Head.
7. They have supplied particulars of German crashed aircraft and personnel crashed or washed ashore or arrested on land.
8. They arranged for staff talks on the question of co-operation against a possible German invasion of Southern Ireland, and close contact has since been maintained between the respective military authorities.
9. They continue to intern all German fighting personnel reaching Southern Ireland. On the other hand, though after protracted negotiations, Allied service personnel are now allowed to depart freely and full assistance is given in recovering damaged aircraft.
10. Recently, in connection with the establishment of prisoner of war camps in Northern Ireland, they have agreed to return or at least intern any German prisoners who may escape from Northern Ireland across the border to Southern Ireland.
11. They have throughout offered no objection to the departure from Southern Ireland of persons wishing to serve in the United Kingdom Forces nor to the journey on leave of such persons to and from Southern Ireland (in plain clothes).
12. They have continued to exchange information with our security authorities regarding all aliens (including Germans) in Southern Ireland.
13. They have (within the last few days) agreed to our establishing a radar station in Southern Ireland for use against the latest form of submarine activity.

They were also still officially neutral unlike all the core Anglosphere nations. De Valera also still signed the book of condolence for Hitler

Mate, you've expressed your admiration for Franco, more than once.

I have also however never said Spain was in the Anglosphere

Philip II was briefly "King" of England.

So what, we also fought more wars with Spain than any other foreign nation after France.

Spain was neutral in WW2 and much of the Cold War and they are hardly close allies over Gibraltar either

Just checking, does Scotland count as a foreign nation in this context?

Scotland comes ahead of Spain when you consider the time before the 1707 Act of Union yes and the wars England rather than the UK fought

kle4 said:

williamglenn said:

@crampell
Putin Signs Law to Seize Foreign Aircraft, Redeploy for Domestic Use

https://twitter.com/crampell/status/1503458523874828289

I can't shake the feeling that he is loving this somehow. Russia against the world, in need of a firm leader who can just sign whatever he feels like law.

Not much use when he cannot get parts

BlancheLivermore said:

So Putin supporters are Scousers..

Tomasz Oryński
@TOrynski
If I read it correctly (i am not really any good in reading Russian) the sign on his jacket says "I support Putin".

Great photo.


https://twitter.com/TOrynski/status/1503477508091621384

You look in the dustbin for something to eat?

HYUFD said:

Farooq said:

HYUFD said:

bigjohnowls said:

Andy_JS said:

I'm surprisingly confident that if Russia and China team up against the West they'll both end up losing, and the West will come out of it stronger than before.

Unless there is a nuclear holocaust in which case nobody will be stronger than before by my understanding of the term

South Africa?

This, ladies and gentlemen, is an excellent example of HYUFD's thought:
That the destruction of Western and Eastern countries "strengthens" those not directly destroyed because they would power on up the ranks. Never mind the fact that the biosphere would be a fucking state and the world economy would head backwards a number of centuries. Rank is what matters in HYUFD's Trumpist view, and a negative sum game makes sense if only the others get hurt much more than you do.

HYUFD would cut his leg off if he knew everybody else would lose both legs.

Well the South African President has taken a neutral stance between Russia and NATO not wholly without self interest.

I would prefer him to be in the NATO camp but that is the reality

Albania, former Stalinist/Maoist/Hoxhaist dictatorship is, much to my surprise, a NATO member.

Luckyguy1983 said:

Farooq said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Farooq said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

rpjs said:

HYUFD said:

ydoethur said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

kle4 said:

HYUFD said:

kle4 said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Foxy said:

Theuniondivvie said:

FF43 said:

rcs1000 said:

biggles said:

CarlottaVance said:

NEW DELHI, March 14 (Reuters) - India is considering taking up a Russian offer to buy its crude oil and other commodities at discounted prices with payment via a rupee-rouble transaction, two Indian officials said, amid tough Western sanctions on Russia over its invasion of Ukraine.

India, which imports 80% of its oil needs, usually buys about 2% to 3% of its supplies from Russia. But with oil prices up 40% so far this year, the government is looking at increasing this if it can help reduce its rising energy bill.

"Russia is offering oil and other commodities at a heavy discount. We will be happy to take that. We have some issues like tanker, insurance cover and oil blends to be resolved. Once we have that we will take the discount offer," one of the Indian government officials said.

https://www.reuters.com/world/india/india-considers-buying-discounted-russian-oil-commodities-officials-say-2022-03-14/

How will the oil get there? (Assuming the west buys up tanker capacity and doesn’t want it to).

Well, there are lots of oil tankers in the world, and many of them are owned by private companies in tax havens who will happily take a premium rate to shift oil from Russia to Delhi.

However... India's behaviour here is pretty appalling. The reality is that Russia will continue to be able to export oil (albeit gas is harder), if the Indians and Chinese say 'discount oil, lovely jubbly'.

Tactless of India to be quite so blatant in their sanctions busting. They are supposed to be a trusted partner, blah blah...

Terrible advert for the symbolic value of the Commonwealth.

Or the Anglosphere. Or is it only white countries that are considered anglosphere?

On the strictest definition, the core Anglosphere is only the UK, USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglosphere#:~:text=The Anglosphere is a group,diplomatic and military co-operation.

And Ireland - 93% speak English as a first language (UK only 92%).

Ireland can also be included but is not automatically in the core 5

Anglosphere, % speaking English as a first language:

Ireland 93.2%
UK 92.3%
NZ 85.9%
USA 78.1%
Aus 72.7%
Can 54.4%.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_population

How bloody big is Quebec and/or how many First Nations languages are there is only 54.4% of Canadians speak English as a first language?

83% of Canadians speak English on that link

You seem to have missed a critical word in my sentence. Or rather you misread it, and have amended, but that now doesn't make sense as a response to what I posted.

Regardless as I said English language speakers is NOT the key criteria for the Anglosphere.

The key criteria is military, political, diplomatic and cultural ties.

Hence it only includes at its core the UK, USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand

"Anglo" refers to the English language. Besides There are plenty of military, political, diplomatic and cultural ties between the UK and Ireland, particularly the last three. On the military front, you will know plenty of Irishmen fought in the UK forces in BOTH World Wars.

Anglophone countries refers primarily to those which mainly speak English.

Anglosphere countries are primarily those united by military, diplomatic, cultural and political ties.

Ireland fought with us in WW1 but was neutral in WW2 and the Cold War unlike the USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand. The Republic of Ireland is also not in NATO

Ireland (as a country, obv) didn't exist in WW1.

Indeed, the only reason it fought with us is it was still in the UK.

The Irish Free State was neutral in WW2 and the Republic of Ireland was neutral in the Cold War.

The Republic of Ireland is also not in NATO or the Commonwealth.

Hence it is not a core Anglosphere nation

More Irish men served in the British armed forces during the Second World War than served in the Irish armed forces.

ETA and by “Irish men” I mean from the 26 counties.

You could legitimately also add the number of UK people who were released to join the UK forces because so many Irish people came over to work on such things as airfield construction.

So what, millions of Indians also fought in WW2, many came over and have contributed to our core services since.

However India is also not in the core Anglosphere either as like Ireland it was neutral in the Cold War and is not in NATO

Doesn't change the basic point.

That reminds me: I've never been able to extract an answer from you as to whether it was right for UKG to give India (as it was then) independence.

Blaming it on Labour Governments does not count.

Oh it does.

The Republic of Ireland is not in NATO, is not in the Commonwealth, does not share our head of state, was neutral in the Cold War and was officially neutral in WW2.

On no grounds whatsoever is the Republic of Ireland a core member of the Anglosphere. It is outer tier at most.

As I said Churchill opposed Indian independence as did most Tories at the time, it was Attlee and Labour who gave then independence. However I am not answering irrelevant hypotheticals as I am a Tory for now and India is independent in the reality of today

You're the one who insists relentlessly that what suited Henry VIII is absolutely the right way to run the UK today. And claims that the C of E is apolitical. When anyoine who knows any history knows that the very notion of an Established Church was always one of the most explosive political issues in any of the four nations of the so-called United Kingdom.

Nope, the Church of England was created as the established church precisely to ensure the effective established church was not Roman Catholic Popery

And, pray, why did Henry VIII not want Popery? YOu have a history degree ...

Because he preferred fresh flowers, none of that dried stuff.

More to the point, he preferred fresh ovaries.

Hmm, I'm a bit worried now that my post came across as sexist and ageist, instead of it just being a pun on the word "popery". I wasn't comparing women to flowers. Popery. Potpourri. Nothing unkind meant about older women.

Too late, consider yourself cancelled.

"No pot pourri!"

tlg86 said:

BlancheLivermore said:

So Putin supporters are Scousers..

Tomasz Oryński
@TOrynski
If I read it correctly (i am not really any good in reading Russian) the sign on his jacket says "I support Putin".

Great photo.


https://twitter.com/TOrynski/status/1503477508091621384

You look in the dustbin for something to eat?

You find a dead dog and you think it's a treat?

HYUFD said:

Farooq said:

kle4 said:

HYUFD said:

Farooq said:

HYUFD said:

bigjohnowls said:

Andy_JS said:

I'm surprisingly confident that if Russia and China team up against the West they'll both end up losing, and the West will come out of it stronger than before.

Unless there is a nuclear holocaust in which case nobody will be stronger than before by my understanding of the term

South Africa?

This, ladies and gentlemen, is an excellent example of HYUFD's thought:
That the destruction of Western and Eastern countries "strengthens" those not directly destroyed because they would power on up the ranks. Never mind the fact that the biosphere would be a fucking state and the world economy would head backwards a number of centuries. Rank is what matters in HYUFD's Trumpist view, and a negative sum game makes sense if only the others get hurt much more than you do.

HYUFD would cut his leg off if he knew everybody else would lose both legs.

Well the South African President has taken a neutral stance between Russia and NATO not wholly without self interest.

I would prefer him to be in the NATO camp but that is the reality

Given you don't think some countries already in it should have been allowed to join NATO I am surprised you would advocate for others to either join or be allied to it.

I refer you to my earlier post.
HYUFD would be happy for South Africa to join because he fancies our chances of beating Eswatini in a war.
Russia's a big boy, so we shouldn't meddle. Rank rank rank. Hit the little guy, give your lunch money to the big guy. No need to mess around with principles or whatever.

It is only NATO and the Anglosphere which help us to contain the big boys of Russia and China.

Yes we can defend the Falklands and Gibraltar and deal with Nationalists within our own islands but we cannot contain Putin and Xi alone

I would suggest that Japan and South Korea - neither of which are either NATO nor Anglosphere are very much holding their end up as well.

Richard_Tyndall said:

HYUFD said:

Farooq said:

kle4 said:

HYUFD said:

Farooq said:

HYUFD said:

bigjohnowls said:

Andy_JS said:

I'm surprisingly confident that if Russia and China team up against the West they'll both end up losing, and the West will come out of it stronger than before.

Unless there is a nuclear holocaust in which case nobody will be stronger than before by my understanding of the term

South Africa?

This, ladies and gentlemen, is an excellent example of HYUFD's thought:
That the destruction of Western and Eastern countries "strengthens" those not directly destroyed because they would power on up the ranks. Never mind the fact that the biosphere would be a fucking state and the world economy would head backwards a number of centuries. Rank is what matters in HYUFD's Trumpist view, and a negative sum game makes sense if only the others get hurt much more than you do.

HYUFD would cut his leg off if he knew everybody else would lose both legs.

Well the South African President has taken a neutral stance between Russia and NATO not wholly without self interest.

I would prefer him to be in the NATO camp but that is the reality

Given you don't think some countries already in it should have been allowed to join NATO I am surprised you would advocate for others to either join or be allied to it.

I refer you to my earlier post.
HYUFD would be happy for South Africa to join because he fancies our chances of beating Eswatini in a war.
Russia's a big boy, so we shouldn't meddle. Rank rank rank. Hit the little guy, give your lunch money to the big guy. No need to mess around with principles or whatever.

It is only NATO and the Anglosphere which help us to contain the big boys of Russia and China.

Yes we can defend the Falklands and Gibraltar and deal with Nationalists within our own islands but we cannot contain Putin and Xi alone

I would suggest that Japan and South Korea - neither of which are either NATO nor Anglosphere are very much holding their end up as well.

Japan drive on the left

They may have not left Russia, but consumer goods company Procter & Gamble is increasing prices tomorrow…..

By 43%

https://twitter.com/girkingirkin/status/1503412565170401280?s=21

kle4 said:

Farooq said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Farooq said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

rpjs said:

HYUFD said:

ydoethur said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

kle4 said:

HYUFD said:

kle4 said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Foxy said:

Theuniondivvie said:

FF43 said:

rcs1000 said:

biggles said:

CarlottaVance said:

NEW DELHI, March 14 (Reuters) - India is considering taking up a Russian offer to buy its crude oil and other commodities at discounted prices with payment via a rupee-rouble transaction, two Indian officials said, amid tough Western sanctions on Russia over its invasion of Ukraine.

India, which imports 80% of its oil needs, usually buys about 2% to 3% of its supplies from Russia. But with oil prices up 40% so far this year, the government is looking at increasing this if it can help reduce its rising energy bill.

"Russia is offering oil and other commodities at a heavy discount. We will be happy to take that. We have some issues like tanker, insurance cover and oil blends to be resolved. Once we have that we will take the discount offer," one of the Indian government officials said.

https://www.reuters.com/world/india/india-considers-buying-discounted-russian-oil-commodities-officials-say-2022-03-14/

How will the oil get there? (Assuming the west buys up tanker capacity and doesn’t want it to).

Well, there are lots of oil tankers in the world, and many of them are owned by private companies in tax havens who will happily take a premium rate to shift oil from Russia to Delhi.

However... India's behaviour here is pretty appalling. The reality is that Russia will continue to be able to export oil (albeit gas is harder), if the Indians and Chinese say 'discount oil, lovely jubbly'.

Tactless of India to be quite so blatant in their sanctions busting. They are supposed to be a trusted partner, blah blah...

Terrible advert for the symbolic value of the Commonwealth.

Or the Anglosphere. Or is it only white countries that are considered anglosphere?

On the strictest definition, the core Anglosphere is only the UK, USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglosphere#:~:text=The Anglosphere is a group,diplomatic and military co-operation.

And Ireland - 93% speak English as a first language (UK only 92%).

Ireland can also be included but is not automatically in the core 5

Anglosphere, % speaking English as a first language:

Ireland 93.2%
UK 92.3%
NZ 85.9%
USA 78.1%
Aus 72.7%
Can 54.4%.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_population

How bloody big is Quebec and/or how many First Nations languages are there is only 54.4% of Canadians speak English as a first language?

83% of Canadians speak English on that link

You seem to have missed a critical word in my sentence. Or rather you misread it, and have amended, but that now doesn't make sense as a response to what I posted.

Regardless as I said English language speakers is NOT the key criteria for the Anglosphere.

The key criteria is military, political, diplomatic and cultural ties.

Hence it only includes at its core the UK, USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand

"Anglo" refers to the English language. Besides There are plenty of military, political, diplomatic and cultural ties between the UK and Ireland, particularly the last three. On the military front, you will know plenty of Irishmen fought in the UK forces in BOTH World Wars.

Anglophone countries refers primarily to those which mainly speak English.

Anglosphere countries are primarily those united by military, diplomatic, cultural and political ties.

Ireland fought with us in WW1 but was neutral in WW2 and the Cold War unlike the USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand. The Republic of Ireland is also not in NATO

Ireland (as a country, obv) didn't exist in WW1.

Indeed, the only reason it fought with us is it was still in the UK.

The Irish Free State was neutral in WW2 and the Republic of Ireland was neutral in the Cold War.

The Republic of Ireland is also not in NATO or the Commonwealth.

Hence it is not a core Anglosphere nation

More Irish men served in the British armed forces during the Second World War than served in the Irish armed forces.

ETA and by “Irish men” I mean from the 26 counties.

You could legitimately also add the number of UK people who were released to join the UK forces because so many Irish people came over to work on such things as airfield construction.

So what, millions of Indians also fought in WW2, many came over and have contributed to our core services since.

However India is also not in the core Anglosphere either as like Ireland it was neutral in the Cold War and is not in NATO

Doesn't change the basic point.

That reminds me: I've never been able to extract an answer from you as to whether it was right for UKG to give India (as it was then) independence.

Blaming it on Labour Governments does not count.

Oh it does.

The Republic of Ireland is not in NATO, is not in the Commonwealth, does not share our head of state, was neutral in the Cold War and was officially neutral in WW2.

On no grounds whatsoever is the Republic of Ireland a core member of the Anglosphere. It is outer tier at most.

As I said Churchill opposed Indian independence as did most Tories at the time, it was Attlee and Labour who gave then independence. However I am not answering irrelevant hypotheticals as I am a Tory for now and India is independent in the reality of today

You're the one who insists relentlessly that what suited Henry VIII is absolutely the right way to run the UK today. And claims that the C of E is apolitical. When anyoine who knows any history knows that the very notion of an Established Church was always one of the most explosive political issues in any of the four nations of the so-called United Kingdom.

Nope, the Church of England was created as the established church precisely to ensure the effective established church was not Roman Catholic Popery

And, pray, why did Henry VIII not want Popery? YOu have a history degree ...

Because he preferred fresh flowers, none of that dried stuff.

More to the point, he preferred fresh ovaries.

Hmm, I'm a bit worried now that my post came across as sexist and ageist, instead of it just being a pun on the word "popery". I wasn't comparing women to flowers. Popery. Potpourri. Nothing unkind meant about older women.

I'm embarrassed I didn't spot the potpourri gag. When one fails like that it means the other absorbs their PB power, like Highlander. Use it well.

"There can be only Pun!"

IanB2 said:

Leon said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Andy_JS said:

I'm surprisingly confident that if Russia and China team up against the West they'll both end up losing, and the West will come out of it stronger than before.

China and Russia being bossom buddies wouldn't be amazing news for the UK, but still less positive would be China and America being best buddies - the rest of the world wouldn't stand a chance. Balance of powers has always been the aim of British foreign policy, and unsurprisingly we have not prospered during the period of US hegemony. To the extent that most here (and probably in the wider country) are dribblingly terrified of a world with competing powers, where we have to find our way independently.

"We have not prospered during the period of US hegemony"

What drugs do you take?


Sure, America supplanted us as global superpower, but that was gonna happen at some point, we are a small island and we governed 1/3 of the world, it was pretty unsustainable, and we kept it going for a fantastically long time

Far far better we were overtaken by the USA than by the USSR (which America defeated) or Nazi Germany (which us and the Americans and USSR defeated) or by China (which we are now trying to defeat)

Meanwhile, under this awful "US hegemony" Britons have become richer, healthier and better educated than at any time in their history, and the UK still wields significant soft and hard power, and is one of the world's leading nations of the 2nd rank, behind the USA and China

Quite frankly, as I look around the world this evening, I would quite like outright US hegemony - 1990s style - to return and run the world for another century or two. Sadly that period has passed

It would be better, I think, if Europe pulled together and became able to look after our own defence, but your fundamental point is sound. I was thinking at the weekend how different the world would feel if, say, America as the technological, economically and militarily dominant power were the fascist dictatorship and, say, Russia as the weaker power were the bastion of democracy on whom we depended. Not a happy place to be.

The point is that global hegemony of any stripe makes it not a very comfortable place to be, though I agree that it is made more palatable if the hegemon has the trappings of Western democracy. The 19th century had a panoply of powers, large, small, medium, land powers, sea powers etc. Britain was a leading power, but never a global hegemon, and much as I am a fan of us, had we been, we may also have been unbearably exploitative - power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. The 19th century saw unparalleled peace, prosperity, and human advancement.

from Helsingin Sanomat on Finnish president Sauli Niinistö's interview with Christiane Amanpour for CNN in London after briefing Boris Johnson and Nordic leaders:

IanB2 said:

An employee on Russia’s state Channel One television has interrupted the channel’s main news programme with an extraordinary protest against Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine.

Marina Ovsyannikova, an editor at Channel One, burst on to the set of the live broadcast of the nightly news on Monday evening, shouting: “Stop the war. No to war.”

She also held a sign saying: “Don’t believe the propaganda. They’re lying to you here.” It was signed in English: “Russians against the war”.

The news anchor continued to read from her teleprompter speaking louder in an attempt to drown out Ovsyannikova, but her protest could be seen and heard for several seconds before the channel switched to a record segment.

Ovsyannikova also released a pre-recorded video on her social media channels in which she expressed her shame at working for Channel One and spreading “Kremlin propaganda”.

Russian twitter thread about her translated..

Pavel Chikov
@pchikov
Who is this star of the First Channel? She must be protected urgently.

Marina Ovsyannikova, editor of the First Channel. Detained, taken to the Ostankino police station. Went lawyer Daniil Berman

there will be a protocol on the fashionable article on military censorship 20.3.3 of the Code of Administrative Offenses for discrediting the Russian armed forces

The Ostankino police station does not have it. The police will apparently hide Marina from her lawyer.




Marina Ovsyannikova can be held by the police for more than 3 hours only in two cases: registration of a protocol under the "arrest" article of the Code of Administrative Offenses - petty hooliganism (Article 20.1) or disobedience to the requirements of a police officer (Article 19.3) detention on suspicion of committing a crime1️⃣2️⃣

Article 20.3.3 of the Code of Administrative Offenses on discrediting the armed forces, which appeared on March 4 and has already been applied at least 164 times in Russia for anti-war slogans, implies only punishment in the form of a fine. It does not allow the police to hold Ovsyannikova for more than three hours.

❗️Marina Ovsyannikova is in the duty part of the Ostankino television center, - says lawyer Daniil Berman. He is not allowed to visit her. At the television center there are several police cars of the Internal Affairs Department of the North-Eastern Administrative District of Moscow.

https://twitter.com/pchikov/status/1503447201858691076

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

rpjs said:

HYUFD said:

ydoethur said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

kle4 said:

HYUFD said:

kle4 said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Foxy said:

Theuniondivvie said:

FF43 said:

rcs1000 said:

biggles said:

CarlottaVance said:

NEW DELHI, March 14 (Reuters) - India is considering taking up a Russian offer to buy its crude oil and other commodities at discounted prices with payment via a rupee-rouble transaction, two Indian officials said, amid tough Western sanctions on Russia over its invasion of Ukraine.

India, which imports 80% of its oil needs, usually buys about 2% to 3% of its supplies from Russia. But with oil prices up 40% so far this year, the government is looking at increasing this if it can help reduce its rising energy bill.

"Russia is offering oil and other commodities at a heavy discount. We will be happy to take that. We have some issues like tanker, insurance cover and oil blends to be resolved. Once we have that we will take the discount offer," one of the Indian government officials said.

https://www.reuters.com/world/india/india-considers-buying-discounted-russian-oil-commodities-officials-say-2022-03-14/

How will the oil get there? (Assuming the west buys up tanker capacity and doesn’t want it to).

Well, there are lots of oil tankers in the world, and many of them are owned by private companies in tax havens who will happily take a premium rate to shift oil from Russia to Delhi.

However... India's behaviour here is pretty appalling. The reality is that Russia will continue to be able to export oil (albeit gas is harder), if the Indians and Chinese say 'discount oil, lovely jubbly'.

Tactless of India to be quite so blatant in their sanctions busting. They are supposed to be a trusted partner, blah blah...

Terrible advert for the symbolic value of the Commonwealth.

Or the Anglosphere. Or is it only white countries that are considered anglosphere?

On the strictest definition, the core Anglosphere is only the UK, USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglosphere#:~:text=The Anglosphere is a group,diplomatic and military co-operation.

And Ireland - 93% speak English as a first language (UK only 92%).

Ireland can also be included but is not automatically in the core 5

Anglosphere, % speaking English as a first language:

Ireland 93.2%
UK 92.3%
NZ 85.9%
USA 78.1%
Aus 72.7%
Can 54.4%.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_population

How bloody big is Quebec and/or how many First Nations languages are there is only 54.4% of Canadians speak English as a first language?

83% of Canadians speak English on that link

You seem to have missed a critical word in my sentence. Or rather you misread it, and have amended, but that now doesn't make sense as a response to what I posted.

Regardless as I said English language speakers is NOT the key criteria for the Anglosphere.

The key criteria is military, political, diplomatic and cultural ties.

Hence it only includes at its core the UK, USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand

"Anglo" refers to the English language. Besides There are plenty of military, political, diplomatic and cultural ties between the UK and Ireland, particularly the last three. On the military front, you will know plenty of Irishmen fought in the UK forces in BOTH World Wars.

Anglophone countries refers primarily to those which mainly speak English.

Anglosphere countries are primarily those united by military, diplomatic, cultural and political ties.

Ireland fought with us in WW1 but was neutral in WW2 and the Cold War unlike the USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand. The Republic of Ireland is also not in NATO

Ireland (as a country, obv) didn't exist in WW1.

Indeed, the only reason it fought with us is it was still in the UK.

The Irish Free State was neutral in WW2 and the Republic of Ireland was neutral in the Cold War.

The Republic of Ireland is also not in NATO or the Commonwealth.

Hence it is not a core Anglosphere nation

More Irish men served in the British armed forces during the Second World War than served in the Irish armed forces.

ETA and by “Irish men” I mean from the 26 counties.

Still percentage wise far less than in the UK, Australia, Canada and New Zealand and Ireland was also still neutral in the Cold War unlike them.

The Republic of Ireland is also still not in NATO unlike most of them either, so remains outside the core Anglosphere

On your logic, Northern Ireland wasn't really in the UK either. There was no conscription in WW2.

Northern Ireland was and is a part of the UK, it did what the UK government told it to do in defence and foreign policy

Doesn't change the fact that it wasn't enough of a part of the UK for the UK government to treat it as a total part of the UK.

Just like the Tory Government today doesn't consider it part of the UK.

Yes it does, Northern Ireland went to war with the Nazis as the UK government decided for it.

This Tory Government will soon invoke Article 16

IN the knowledge that most people in NI oppose it.

Colonialists. Imperialists.

Most Unionists support it and as long as the UK government does not impose a hard border in Ireland the rest have no grounds to complain

But Article 16 is all about invoking a hard border.

No it isn't, a technical solution can be used in Ireland

That is what is happening. You can even read the EU's own proposal for the techincal solution here (https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/STUD/2017/596828/IPOL_STU(2017)596828_EN.pdf)

Sunil_Prasannan said:

JohnLilburne said:

HYUFD said:

Farooq said:

HYUFD said:

bigjohnowls said:

Andy_JS said:

I'm surprisingly confident that if Russia and China team up against the West they'll both end up losing, and the West will come out of it stronger than before.

Unless there is a nuclear holocaust in which case nobody will be stronger than before by my understanding of the term

South Africa?

This, ladies and gentlemen, is an excellent example of HYUFD's thought:
That the destruction of Western and Eastern countries "strengthens" those not directly destroyed because they would power on up the ranks. Never mind the fact that the biosphere would be a fucking state and the world economy would head backwards a number of centuries. Rank is what matters in HYUFD's Trumpist view, and a negative sum game makes sense if only the others get hurt much more than you do.

HYUFD would cut his leg off if he knew everybody else would lose both legs.

Well the South African President has taken a neutral stance between Russia and NATO not wholly without self interest.

I would prefer him to be in the NATO camp but that is the reality

Albania, former Stalinist/Maoist/Hoxhaist dictatorship is, much to my surprise, a NATO member.

Germany, former Kaiserist autocracy and later National Socialist dictatorship is also a NATO member!

That was a bit longer ago. Someone of my age would have spent the first 26 years of their life under Stalinism (broadly defined)

A

darkage said:

My advice, as armchair strategist, is to distract Putin with another proxy war, whilst he is getting bogged down in Ukraine. Find some new breakaway republic to back, or something.

Wasn't that what Japan was up to a few days ago?

darkage said:

My advice, as armchair strategist, is to distract Putin with another proxy war, whilst he is getting bogged down in Ukraine. Find some new breakaway republic to back, or something.

Indeed. A second/third front would be great. Maybe if the Ukrainians can find and kill Kadyrov the Chechens will kick off again.

Andy_JS said:

"US astronaut’s family in tears amid fears son could be left in space"

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/russia-mark-vande-hei-nasa-astronaut-stranded-space-ukraine-b987771.htm

Page not found

Luckyguy1983 said:

JohnLilburne said:

darkage said:

My advice, as armchair strategist, is to distract Putin with another proxy war, whilst he is getting bogged down in Ukraine. Find some new breakaway republic to back, or something.

Indeed. A second/third front would be great. Maybe if the Ukrainians can find and kill Kadyrov the Chechens will kick off again.

Yay, more death!

That's how you win wars, I'm afraid.

IshmaelZ said:

Benpointer said:

Andy_JS said:

"US astronaut’s family in tears amid fears son could be left in space"

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/russia-mark-vande-hei-nasa-astronaut-stranded-space-ukraine-b987771.htm

Page not found

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/russia-mark-vande-hei-nasa-astronaut-stranded-space-ukraine-b987771.html

What a difference an l makes

Usual MSM garbage - https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/03/after-two-weeks-of-war-the-international-space-station-flies-on/

In addition, SpaceX has something close to launch on demand - With their current cadence there is a rocket on the pad being prepped for a flight nearly continuously.

BlancheLivermore said:

IanB2 said:

An employee on Russia’s state Channel One television has interrupted the channel’s main news programme with an extraordinary protest against Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine.

Marina Ovsyannikova, an editor at Channel One, burst on to the set of the live broadcast of the nightly news on Monday evening, shouting: “Stop the war. No to war.”

She also held a sign saying: “Don’t believe the propaganda. They’re lying to you here.” It was signed in English: “Russians against the war”.

The news anchor continued to read from her teleprompter speaking louder in an attempt to drown out Ovsyannikova, but her protest could be seen and heard for several seconds before the channel switched to a record segment.

Ovsyannikova also released a pre-recorded video on her social media channels in which she expressed her shame at working for Channel One and spreading “Kremlin propaganda”.

Russian twitter thread about her translated..

Pavel Chikov
@pchikov
Who is this star of the First Channel? She must be protected urgently.

Marina Ovsyannikova, editor of the First Channel. Detained, taken to the Ostankino police station. Went lawyer Daniil Berman

there will be a protocol on the fashionable article on military censorship 20.3.3 of the Code of Administrative Offenses for discrediting the Russian armed forces

The Ostankino police station does not have it. The police will apparently hide Marina from her lawyer.




Marina Ovsyannikova can be held by the police for more than 3 hours only in two cases: registration of a protocol under the "arrest" article of the Code of Administrative Offenses - petty hooliganism (Article 20.1) or disobedience to the requirements of a police officer (Article 19.3) detention on suspicion of committing a crime1️⃣2️⃣

Article 20.3.3 of the Code of Administrative Offenses on discrediting the armed forces, which appeared on March 4 and has already been applied at least 164 times in Russia for anti-war slogans, implies only punishment in the form of a fine. It does not allow the police to hold Ovsyannikova for more than three hours.

❗️Marina Ovsyannikova is in the duty part of the Ostankino television center, - says lawyer Daniil Berman. He is not allowed to visit her. At the television center there are several police cars of the Internal Affairs Department of the North-Eastern Administrative District of Moscow.

https://twitter.com/pchikov/status/1503447201858691076

She’s not going to be seen again while Putin is still around. Hopefully he’ll be gone and she’ll be released eventually. As she says in her video, “they can’t put everyone in prison”.

glw said:

Malmesbury said:

IshmaelZ said:

Benpointer said:

Andy_JS said:

"US astronaut’s family in tears amid fears son could be left in space"

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/russia-mark-vande-hei-nasa-astronaut-stranded-space-ukraine-b987771.htm

Page not found

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/russia-mark-vande-hei-nasa-astronaut-stranded-space-ukraine-b987771.html

What a difference an l makes

Usual MSM garbage - https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/03/after-two-weeks-of-war-the-international-space-station-flies-on/

In addition, SpaceX has something close to launch on demand - With their current cadence there is a rocket on the pad being prepped for a flight nearly continuously.

Musk would love to launch a rescure mission, maybe that's why he's offering to fight Putin?

It's more about how fucked in the head Dmitry "I'm Fucked In De head" Rogozin is when he is on/off his pills.

It is interesting ho quiet Musk has been on twitter - apart from the Starlink offer to Ukraine.

- Russian space program fall down, go doom
- Everyone round the world is queuing up to see if Musk has spare launches
- Half his American rivals were using Russian/Ukrainian stuff
- Sue Origin still can't make rocket engines.
- Boeing still can't fly a capsule.

Quite a lot of people are speculating that SpaceX will fly OneWeb satellites, just for the LOLs, and being able to tell the anti-trust lawyers to sit and spin....

The real problem is that if the Russians turn off the system that de-saturates the orientation gyros for ISS, then the station loses attitude control fairly rapidly. It's in the Russian segment of ISS.....

IshmaelZ said:

IshmaelZ said:

Benpointer said:

Andy_JS said:

"US astronaut’s family in tears amid fears son could be left in space"

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/russia-mark-vande-hei-nasa-astronaut-stranded-space-ukraine-b987771.htm

Page not found

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/russia-mark-vande-hei-nasa-astronaut-stranded-space-ukraine-b987771.html

What a difference an l makes

Not going to happen. Good sci fi plot though

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ButWhatAboutTheAstronauts

Kinda flipped round from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Star,_Winter_Orbit

Presumably if China supplies Russia, the
West would have to think about onshoring some of the lost manufacturing capability (hopefully not just the cheap tat..)

rottenborough said:

President Biden’s national security adviser met with a top Chinese official on Monday to warn against China giving Russia military or economic assistance, as the Kremlin struggles with the aftermath of its invasion of Ukraine.

NY Times blog

I don't really see what would be in it for the Chinese to get involved in any way at all. Can't they just sit it out and then buy up Russian assets at knockdown prices?

CorrectHorseBattery said:

HYUFD said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Re election, it will be between a majority and a Hung Parliament. If polls show even a slim majority Johnson goes for it I reckon

We are in the middle of the greatest European crisis since WW2. The idea Johnson will call a general election now or before 2024 is ludicrous and certainly not on current polling

2023 seems likely

Only after boundary changes

Just donated to the Ukraine Red Cross/DEC appeal.

If you go via this link (below) then McDonald’s will match your donation £ for £ (up to £1m);


https://donate.redcross.org.uk/appeal/ukraine-crisis-appeal?utm_campaign=Ukraine Crisis Appeal&utm_source=google&utm_medium=Banner&utm_content=Donate Landing_Donate to DEC Ukraine Humanitarian Appeal&utm_term=175148_Website_McDonalds&c_name=Ukraine Crisis Appeal&c_source=google&c_medium=Banner&c_creative=Donate Landing_Donate to DEC Ukraine Humanitarian Appeal&c_code=175148&adg=Website_McDonalds

43,000 applications for Gove's sponsorship scheme received by 9.00pm tonight

Russia’s suggested peace terms (reported upthread via the Helsinki newspaper) are interesting, I note that they wish Ukraine not to join EU.

Opportunity for UK and Ukraine to craft some kind of extra-EU sphere, perhaps along with EFTA.

bondegezou said:

MISTY said:

darkage said:

(reposted FPT)
I think that Johnson will ride out the Lebedev issues. He will keep saying that the security services never issued any meaningful warnings about him. I still haven't seen any significant evidence that Lebedev is a malign influence, other than he had a line to Putin - not unexpected for someone in his position. How Lebedev got to be where he is, and where all his money came from, is an interesting question; but Boris Johnson cannot be blamed for that.

Johnson's luck is astounding.

Ukraine has enabled him to get beyond partygate, keep covid blunders out of the headlines, turn immigration around from a very unpromising place, bury tax rises and find an excuse to finesse energy policy beyond net zero.

And then there's inflation......Food prices? Petrol costs? Vlad's fault guvnor.

Its almost tailor made.

Just as Brexit saved him from 2 years of bad Brexit's-not-working headlines!

Do you not mean covid ?

kinabalu said:

Noticing more Johnson on here and less Boris. The war effect? Whatever, good to see.

It's your imagination.

Richard_Tyndall said:

NickPalmer said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Evening folks.

Well, signed up for the official Government refugee system today saying we have space in our house for a couple of Ukrainians so we will see what happens next.

A few thoughts on the process.

The introductory pages seem to be unnecessarily convoluted to actually get to the sign up page. I assume this is because they want to make sure everyone has properly absorbed the implications of signing up but it didn't seem immediately obvious where to go to get to the bit where you fill out your details. At one point I did find that clicking buttons which were supposed to get me to the forms put me back to the start again.

Secondly the forms themselves are very straight forward and easy to complete. A good thing and well done.

Thirdly - and my main criticism - is the idiotic decision that initially you will only be able to host someone who is not your relative if you have independently made contact with them through social media. as it stands you have to be able to name the person or persons you are expecting to host. Now I know a couple of people professionally in Ukraine but none of them are interested in being given safe haven. They are too busy trying to kick the Russians out of their country. So for now there seems to be no way to link up ourselves as people wiling to host refugees with Ukrainians who need refuge.

This seems to me to be a particularly daft system and one that - since it relies on social media contacts - seems rife for the less scrupulous including traffickers to take advantage. The Government must have a list of those they have already accepted for entry to the UK so why not just assign people as necessary.

I will keep you informed of developments.

Anyone else signed up yet who can compare notes and thoughts?

Well done Richard. My landlady has tried, but the website seemed to be down - she'll have another go in a couple of days. She was confused by the term "sponsor" - thought it meant someone had to vouch for her.

No I read that to mean that we as the hosts are 'sponsoring' the Ukrainians by providing them with accommodation etc and helping them find work, schooling, getting onto the local Health system etc.

Well done, and thank you. I'd love to take someone in, but my place only has one bedroom.

kle4 said:

rottenborough said:

President Biden’s national security adviser met with a top Chinese official on Monday to warn against China giving Russia military or economic assistance, as the Kremlin struggles with the aftermath of its invasion of Ukraine.

NY Times blog

I don't really see what would be in it for the Chinese to get involved in any way at all. Can't they just sit it out and then buy up Russian assets at knockdown prices?

I think China is perhaps the only economy that can withstand autarky. We could be witnessing the end of globalization, a model which the West depends on for its prosperity. At the moment, we're bankrupting Russia. But if this escalates, we could end up bankrupt as well. For that reason, it may benefit China to pour a little petrol on the fire.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

HYUFD said:

Farooq said:

kle4 said:

HYUFD said:

Farooq said:

HYUFD said:

bigjohnowls said:

Andy_JS said:

I'm surprisingly confident that if Russia and China team up against the West they'll both end up losing, and the West will come out of it stronger than before.

Unless there is a nuclear holocaust in which case nobody will be stronger than before by my understanding of the term

South Africa?

This, ladies and gentlemen, is an excellent example of HYUFD's thought:
That the destruction of Western and Eastern countries "strengthens" those not directly destroyed because they would power on up the ranks. Never mind the fact that the biosphere would be a fucking state and the world economy would head backwards a number of centuries. Rank is what matters in HYUFD's Trumpist view, and a negative sum game makes sense if only the others get hurt much more than you do.

HYUFD would cut his leg off if he knew everybody else would lose both legs.

Well the South African President has taken a neutral stance between Russia and NATO not wholly without self interest.

I would prefer him to be in the NATO camp but that is the reality

Given you don't think some countries already in it should have been allowed to join NATO I am surprised you would advocate for others to either join or be allied to it.

I refer you to my earlier post.
HYUFD would be happy for South Africa to join because he fancies our chances of beating Eswatini in a war.
Russia's a big boy, so we shouldn't meddle. Rank rank rank. Hit the little guy, give your lunch money to the big guy. No need to mess around with principles or whatever.

It is only NATO and the Anglosphere which help us to contain the big boys of Russia and China.

Yes we can defend the Falklands and Gibraltar and deal with Nationalists within our own islands but we cannot contain Putin and Xi alone

I would suggest that Japan and South Korea - neither of which are either NATO nor Anglosphere are very much holding their end up as well.

To an extent but as you say they are not in NATO nor are they in the AUKUS security agreement either

You really are out of touch if you think that AUKUS would take action without the approval and engagement of South Korea and Japan

Depends what it was, if China ever threatened Australia it would

kinabalu said:

Noticing more Johnson on here and less Boris. The war effect? Whatever, good to see.

Not a good time to have a Russian name I guess. Although, if you're going to fund your party with shed loads of roubles from dodgy oligarchs then calling yourself "Boris" at least has the benefit of consistency.

kyf_100 said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

NickPalmer said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Evening folks.

Well, signed up for the official Government refugee system today saying we have space in our house for a couple of Ukrainians so we will see what happens next.

A few thoughts on the process.

The introductory pages seem to be unnecessarily convoluted to actually get to the sign up page. I assume this is because they want to make sure everyone has properly absorbed the implications of signing up but it didn't seem immediately obvious where to go to get to the bit where you fill out your details. At one point I did find that clicking buttons which were supposed to get me to the forms put me back to the start again.

Secondly the forms themselves are very straight forward and easy to complete. A good thing and well done.

Thirdly - and my main criticism - is the idiotic decision that initially you will only be able to host someone who is not your relative if you have independently made contact with them through social media. as it stands you have to be able to name the person or persons you are expecting to host. Now I know a couple of people professionally in Ukraine but none of them are interested in being given safe haven. They are too busy trying to kick the Russians out of their country. So for now there seems to be no way to link up ourselves as people wiling to host refugees with Ukrainians who need refuge.

This seems to me to be a particularly daft system and one that - since it relies on social media contacts - seems rife for the less scrupulous including traffickers to take advantage. The Government must have a list of those they have already accepted for entry to the UK so why not just assign people as necessary.

I will keep you informed of developments.

Anyone else signed up yet who can compare notes and thoughts?

Well done Richard. My landlady has tried, but the website seemed to be down - she'll have another go in a couple of days. She was confused by the term "sponsor" - thought it meant someone had to vouch for her.

No I read that to mean that we as the hosts are 'sponsoring' the Ukrainians by providing them with accommodation etc and helping them find work, schooling, getting onto the local Health system etc.

Well done, and thank you. I'd love to take someone in, but my place only has one bedroom.

kle4 said:

rottenborough said:

President Biden’s national security adviser met with a top Chinese official on Monday to warn against China giving Russia military or economic assistance, as the Kremlin struggles with the aftermath of its invasion of Ukraine.

NY Times blog

I don't really see what would be in it for the Chinese to get involved in any way at all. Can't they just sit it out and then buy up Russian assets at knockdown prices?

I think China is perhaps the only economy that can withstand autarky. We could be witnessing the end of globalization, a model which the West depends on for its prosperity. At the moment, we're bankrupting Russia. But if this escalates, we could end up bankrupt as well. For that reason, it may benefit China to pour a little petrol on the fire.

The Chinese model of economic growth is very dependent on cheap exports to the US and Europe.

If demand for that falls it hits them too

kinabalu said:

Noticing more Johnson on here and less Boris. The war effect? Whatever, good to see.

You can’t win. Call him Boris - people complain. Call him Johnson - people complain. Perhaps there should be some pb approved list for what name we can use to refer to politicians?

Gardenwalker said:

kle4 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Russia’s suggested peace terms (reported upthread via the Helsinki newspaper) are interesting, I note that they wish Ukraine not to join EU.

Really? They've kept that wish very quiet. If only they'd done something to show how much they hated the idea.

Despite your sarcasm, I don’t think they’d spelled it out before.

Without the sarcasm, that's nonsense. They've repeatedly demanded 'neutrality' including through a change to the constitution, which is required as it apparently currently references seeking membership of the EU and NATO.

So whether it is something Ukraine could accept or not, Russia very much have spelled it out before in unambiguous terms. Here they did it 8 days ago (including the rather laughable comment that Ukraine can live as it wants, but only under conditions Russia imposes, ie not as it wants)

https://www.reuters.com/world/kremlin-says-russian-military-action-will-stop-moment-if-ukraine-meets-2022-03-07/

On the issue of neutrality, Peskov said: "They should make amendments to the constitution according to which Ukraine would reject any aims to enter any bloc."

The latest pretend we care scam from no 10 is this ludicrous new scheme . Instead of a simple system to match people they force the public to have to name those they want to sponsor . Thereby making sure less Ukrainians come to the UK .

Foxy said:

kle4 said:

rottenborough said:

President Biden’s national security adviser met with a top Chinese official on Monday to warn against China giving Russia military or economic assistance, as the Kremlin struggles with the aftermath of its invasion of Ukraine.

NY Times blog

I don't really see what would be in it for the Chinese to get involved in any way at all. Can't they just sit it out and then buy up Russian assets at knockdown prices?

They will be able to buy Russia for 10 cents on the dollar by Easter.

Maybe we should do it that instead.

kle4 said:

To placate Russia I suggest Ukraine join the European Union of European Union Allies. Who could object to joining the EUEUA?

I return to my proposal that it replace Scotland in the U.K. when it leaves, and we get the President as PM.

kle4 said:

kinabalu said:

Noticing more Johnson on here and less Boris. The war effect? Whatever, good to see.

It's your imagination.

That's what I thought at first! But no, I did the audit, checked against my records, and there are no less than THREE posters just on the latter part of this thread who usually do B but have switched to J. It's quite striking. And I really hope I haven't now jinxed it. Won't forgive myself if I have.

turbotubbs said:

rcs1000 said:

turbotubbs said:

Leon said:

Important

"In recent days China has locked down tens of millions in several cities, as it braces for a much worse wave than Jan 2020 where the bulk of infection was confined to Hubei province."

The Chinese are expecting the Omicron wave to be MUCH WORSE than Wuhan/Hubei

https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1503420730100396032?s=20&t=x2ek4lWyGUhV0RNMeOO3Kg

This story could be as big as Ukraine, in its own way

Some mocked those on pb who said getting lots of infections after the oldies and infirm were double vaccinated was a good thing. They would have kept us locked down (or at least tighter restrictions) for much longer. China will now reap what it has sewn by being so aggressively zero Covid combined with a less effective vaccine programme. At least NZ got the vaccination side right, and I think on the whole their ‘war’ has been pretty good, especially in terms of deaths, and probably in terms of time spent ‘open’ internally over the last two years.

Most people (on here) recognised that Zero Covid was a dumb policy, because - at some point - you need to open up again.

On the other hand, I think you can argue that a "Zero Covid" policy early in the pandemic (assuming you have an island far from anywhere), followed by opening up once people are fully vaccinated is far from a stupid strategy.

It's just that many places (*cough* China) failed to appreciate that at a certain point, you need to let it go.

Yes, I think that NZ used it’s natural advantages well. Yes they have restricted access to outsiders, but I suspect for many it’s been a price worth paying. They are now having plenty of cases but not much death, although it might seem like it to them.
I would say though, that contrary to some people’s ideas, we could never have adopted a similar strategy in the U.K.

Agreed on both counts. NZ has had an excellent pandemic overall - and including - the omicron wave. Which makes Ardern’s current strategy all the more nonsensical: it’s winding up New Zealanders who can see that passports to buy a cup of tea and draconian travel restrictions on countries with lower covid rates demonstrably do not work, and are - to put it mildly - a huge PITA.

MarqueeMark said:

kinabalu said:

Noticing more Johnson on here and less Boris. The war effect? Whatever, good to see.

Boris will be Boris.....

Well you're hard core. Anything from your end is a bonus.