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In England only in London does Starmer have a “Best PM” lead over Johnson – politicalbetting.com

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  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:


    Oh it does.

    The Republic of Ireland is not in NATO, is not in the Commonwealth, does not share our head of state, was neutral in the Cold War and was officially neutral in WW2.

    On no grounds whatsoever is the Republic of Ireland a core member of the Anglosphere. It is outer tier at most.

    As I said Churchill opposed Indian independence as did most Tories at the time, it was Attlee and Labour who gave then independence. However I am not answering irrelevant hypotheticals as I am a Tory for now and India is independent in the reality of today

    The Cranborne Report
    Viscount Cranborne, the British Secretary of State for Dominion Affairs, wrote a letter on 21 February 1945 to the British War Cabinet regarding Irish-British collaboration during 1939–1945:

    # They [the Irish] agreed to our use of Lough Foyle for naval and air purposes. The ownership of the Lough is disputed, but the Southern Irish authorities are tacitly not pressing their claim in present conditions and are also ignoring any flying by our aircraft over the Donegal shore of the Lough, which is necessary in certain wind conditions to enable flying boats to take off from the Lough.

    1. They have agreed to use by our aircraft based on Lough Erne of a corridor over Southern Irish territory and territorial waters for the purpose of flying out to the Atlantic.
    2. They have arranged for the immediate transmission to the United Kingdom Representative's Office in Dublin of reports of submarine activity received from their coast watching service.
    3. They arranged for the broadening of reports by their Air observation Corps of aircraft sighted over or approaching Southern Irish territory. (This does not include our aircraft using the corridor referred to in (b) above.)
    4. They arranged for the extinction of trade and business lighting in coastal towns where such lighting was alleged to afford a useful landmark for German aircraft.
    5. They have continued to supply us with meteorological reports.
    6. They have agreed to the use by our ships and aircraft of two wireless direction-finding stations at Malin Head.
    7. They have supplied particulars of German crashed aircraft and personnel crashed or washed ashore or arrested on land.
    8. They arranged for staff talks on the question of co-operation against a possible German invasion of Southern Ireland, and close contact has since been maintained between the respective military authorities.
    9. They continue to intern all German fighting personnel reaching Southern Ireland. On the other hand, though after protracted negotiations, Allied service personnel are now allowed to depart freely and full assistance is given in recovering damaged aircraft.
    10. Recently, in connection with the establishment of prisoner of war camps in Northern Ireland, they have agreed to return or at least intern any German prisoners who may escape from Northern Ireland across the border to Southern Ireland.
    11. They have throughout offered no objection to the departure from Southern Ireland of persons wishing to serve in the United Kingdom Forces nor to the journey on leave of such persons to and from Southern Ireland (in plain clothes).
    12. They have continued to exchange information with our security authorities regarding all aliens (including Germans) in Southern Ireland.
    13. They have (within the last few days) agreed to our establishing a radar station in Southern Ireland for use against the latest form of submarine activity.
    They were also still officially neutral unlike all the core Anglosphere nations. De Valera also still signed the book of condolence for Hitler
    Mate, you've expressed your admiration for Franco, more than once.
    I have also however never said Spain was in the Anglosphere
    Philip II was briefly "King" of England.
    So what, we also fought more wars with Spain than any other foreign nation after France.

    Spain was neutral in WW2 and much of the Cold War and they are hardly close allies over Gibraltar either
    Just checking, does Scotland count as a foreign nation in this context?
    Scotland comes ahead of Spain when you consider the time before the 1707 Act of Union yes and the wars England rather than the UK fought
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,421
    Foxy said:

    Farooq said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Could Boris conceivably call a quasi-Khaki Election in 2022?

    As with Salisbury's Conservative-Liberal Unionist alliance that won the original Khaki Election in 1900, Boris's Conservative & Unionist Party will almost certain need to time any such electoral gambit this year, to occur BEFORE the end of the War (Boer then, Ukrainian today).

    Personally think proper atmosphere AND timing are less propitious and likely harder for Tories this millennium than last. But who knows?

    Not unless the Tories get a big poll lead no
    If Putin were to fall as a result of the Ukraine invasion on Johnson's watch, Johnson would be insane not to go for a quick win.
    Not unless he had over a 12% poll lead, otherwise he still loses seats and as 2017 showed voters dislike snap elections
    But if an early election looks like a small majority and another five years he would take that.
    Why? Just putting myself in his position - I’d want to get at least a year or two without Covid or thermonuclear war to do something with my 80 seat majority. A year or two as elected dictator is better than five as Theresa May.
    He retains his reputation as a winner and gives himself a guaranteed extra 3 and a half years for Carrie and Johnson to enjoy the wallpaper.
    He has his flock to look after.
    He might get a pasting.
    Carrie might instigate a de facto regency, stripe-ing Boris of all genuine power.
  • kle4 said:

    @crampell
    Putin Signs Law to Seize Foreign Aircraft, Redeploy for Domestic Use


    https://twitter.com/crampell/status/1503458523874828289

    I can't shake the feeling that he is loving this somehow. Russia against the world, in need of a firm leader who can just sign whatever he feels like law.
    Not much use when he cannot get parts
  • So Putin supporters are Scousers..

    Tomasz Oryński
    @TOrynski
    If I read it correctly (i am not really any good in reading Russian) the sign on his jacket says "I support Putin".

    Great photo.


    https://twitter.com/TOrynski/status/1503477508091621384
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175

    So Putin supporters are Scousers..

    Tomasz Oryński
    @TOrynski
    If I read it correctly (i am not really any good in reading Russian) the sign on his jacket says "I support Putin".

    Great photo.


    https://twitter.com/TOrynski/status/1503477508091621384

    You look in the dustbin for something to eat?
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:


    Oh it does.

    The Republic of Ireland is not in NATO, is not in the Commonwealth, does not share our head of state, was neutral in the Cold War and was officially neutral in WW2.

    On no grounds whatsoever is the Republic of Ireland a core member of the Anglosphere. It is outer tier at most.

    As I said Churchill opposed Indian independence as did most Tories at the time, it was Attlee and Labour who gave then independence. However I am not answering irrelevant hypotheticals as I am a Tory for now and India is independent in the reality of today

    The Cranborne Report
    Viscount Cranborne, the British Secretary of State for Dominion Affairs, wrote a letter on 21 February 1945 to the British War Cabinet regarding Irish-British collaboration during 1939–1945:

    # They [the Irish] agreed to our use of Lough Foyle for naval and air purposes. The ownership of the Lough is disputed, but the Southern Irish authorities are tacitly not pressing their claim in present conditions and are also ignoring any flying by our aircraft over the Donegal shore of the Lough, which is necessary in certain wind conditions to enable flying boats to take off from the Lough.

    1. They have agreed to use by our aircraft based on Lough Erne of a corridor over Southern Irish territory and territorial waters for the purpose of flying out to the Atlantic.
    2. They have arranged for the immediate transmission to the United Kingdom Representative's Office in Dublin of reports of submarine activity received from their coast watching service.
    3. They arranged for the broadening of reports by their Air observation Corps of aircraft sighted over or approaching Southern Irish territory. (This does not include our aircraft using the corridor referred to in (b) above.)
    4. They arranged for the extinction of trade and business lighting in coastal towns where such lighting was alleged to afford a useful landmark for German aircraft.
    5. They have continued to supply us with meteorological reports.
    6. They have agreed to the use by our ships and aircraft of two wireless direction-finding stations at Malin Head.
    7. They have supplied particulars of German crashed aircraft and personnel crashed or washed ashore or arrested on land.
    8. They arranged for staff talks on the question of co-operation against a possible German invasion of Southern Ireland, and close contact has since been maintained between the respective military authorities.
    9. They continue to intern all German fighting personnel reaching Southern Ireland. On the other hand, though after protracted negotiations, Allied service personnel are now allowed to depart freely and full assistance is given in recovering damaged aircraft.
    10. Recently, in connection with the establishment of prisoner of war camps in Northern Ireland, they have agreed to return or at least intern any German prisoners who may escape from Northern Ireland across the border to Southern Ireland.
    11. They have throughout offered no objection to the departure from Southern Ireland of persons wishing to serve in the United Kingdom Forces nor to the journey on leave of such persons to and from Southern Ireland (in plain clothes).
    12. They have continued to exchange information with our security authorities regarding all aliens (including Germans) in Southern Ireland.
    13. They have (within the last few days) agreed to our establishing a radar station in Southern Ireland for use against the latest form of submarine activity.
    They were also still officially neutral unlike all the core Anglosphere nations. De Valera also still signed the book of condolence for Hitler
    Mate, you've expressed your admiration for Franco, more than once.
    I have also however never said Spain was in the Anglosphere
    Philip II was briefly "King" of England.
    So what, we also fought more wars with Spain than any other foreign nation after France.

    Spain was neutral in WW2 and much of the Cold War and they are hardly close allies over Gibraltar either
    Just checking, does Scotland count as a foreign nation in this context?
    Scotland comes ahead of Spain when you consider the time before the 1707 Act of Union yes and the wars England rather than the UK fought
    If we’re doing top trumps, is pure length of war enough, or do you need to consider intensity? Perhaps it needs a graph? I mean the 100 years war was a bit on and off, and light touch so we should weight it.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,241
    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'm surprisingly confident that if Russia and China team up against the West they'll both end up losing, and the West will come out of it stronger than before.

    Unless there is a nuclear holocaust in which case nobody will be stronger than before by my understanding of the term
    South Africa?
    This, ladies and gentlemen, is an excellent example of HYUFD's thought:
    That the destruction of Western and Eastern countries "strengthens" those not directly destroyed because they would power on up the ranks. Never mind the fact that the biosphere would be a fucking state and the world economy would head backwards a number of centuries. Rank is what matters in HYUFD's Trumpist view, and a negative sum game makes sense if only the others get hurt much more than you do.

    HYUFD would cut his leg off if he knew everybody else would lose both legs.
    Well the South African President has taken a neutral stance between Russia and NATO not wholly without self interest.

    I would prefer him to be in the NATO camp but that is the reality
    Albania, former Stalinist/Maoist/Hoxhaist dictatorship is, much to my surprise, a NATO member.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,241

    So Putin supporters are Scousers..

    Tomasz Oryński
    @TOrynski
    If I read it correctly (i am not really any good in reading Russian) the sign on his jacket says "I support Putin".

    Great photo.


    https://twitter.com/TOrynski/status/1503477508091621384

    Yes, "I'm for Putin".
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714
    Great. Just great.



    Allie Hodgkins-Brown
    @AllieHBNews
    ·
    17m
    Tuesday’s FINANCIAL TIMES: “China signalled willingness to provide Russia with military support, says US” #TomorrowsPapersToday
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,241

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    rpjs said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    FF43 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    biggles said:

    NEW DELHI, March 14 (Reuters) - India is considering taking up a Russian offer to buy its crude oil and other commodities at discounted prices with payment via a rupee-rouble transaction, two Indian officials said, amid tough Western sanctions on Russia over its invasion of Ukraine.

    India, which imports 80% of its oil needs, usually buys about 2% to 3% of its supplies from Russia. But with oil prices up 40% so far this year, the government is looking at increasing this if it can help reduce its rising energy bill.

    "Russia is offering oil and other commodities at a heavy discount. We will be happy to take that. We have some issues like tanker, insurance cover and oil blends to be resolved. Once we have that we will take the discount offer," one of the Indian government officials said.


    https://www.reuters.com/world/india/india-considers-buying-discounted-russian-oil-commodities-officials-say-2022-03-14/

    How will the oil get there? (Assuming the west buys up tanker capacity and doesn’t want it to).
    Well, there are lots of oil tankers in the world, and many of them are owned by private companies in tax havens who will happily take a premium rate to shift oil from Russia to Delhi.

    However... India's behaviour here is pretty appalling. The reality is that Russia will continue to be able to export oil (albeit gas is harder), if the Indians and Chinese say 'discount oil, lovely jubbly'.
    Tactless of India to be quite so blatant in their sanctions busting. They are supposed to be a trusted partner, blah blah...
    Terrible advert for the symbolic value of the Commonwealth.
    Or the Anglosphere. Or is it only white countries that are considered anglosphere?
    On the strictest definition, the core Anglosphere is only the UK, USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglosphere#:~:text=The Anglosphere is a group,diplomatic and military co-operation.
    And Ireland - 93% speak English as a first language (UK only 92%).
    Ireland can also be included but is not automatically in the core 5
    Anglosphere, % speaking English as a first language:

    Ireland 93.2%
    UK 92.3%
    NZ 85.9%
    USA 78.1%
    Aus 72.7%
    Can 54.4%.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_population
    How bloody big is Quebec and/or how many First Nations languages are there is only 54.4% of Canadians speak English as a first language?
    83% of Canadians speak English on that link
    You seem to have missed a critical word in my sentence. Or rather you misread it, and have amended, but that now doesn't make sense as a response to what I posted.
    Regardless as I said English language speakers is NOT the key criteria for the Anglosphere.

    The key criteria is military, political, diplomatic and cultural ties.

    Hence it only includes at its core the UK, USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand
    "Anglo" refers to the English language. Besides There are plenty of military, political, diplomatic and cultural ties between the UK and Ireland, particularly the last three. On the military front, you will know plenty of Irishmen fought in the UK forces in BOTH World Wars.
    Anglophone countries refers primarily to those which mainly speak English.

    Anglosphere countries are primarily those united by military, diplomatic, cultural and political ties.

    Ireland fought with us in WW1 but was neutral in WW2 and the Cold War unlike the USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand. The Republic of Ireland is also not in NATO
    Ireland (as a country, obv) didn't exist in WW1.
    Indeed, the only reason it fought with us is it was still in the UK.

    The Irish Free State was neutral in WW2 and the Republic of Ireland was neutral in the Cold War.

    The Republic of Ireland is also not in NATO or the Commonwealth.

    Hence it is not a core Anglosphere nation
    More Irish men served in the British armed forces during the Second World War than served in the Irish armed forces.

    ETA and by “Irish men” I mean from the 26 counties.
    You could legitimately also add the number of UK people who were released to join the UK forces because so many Irish people came over to work on such things as airfield construction.
    So what, millions of Indians also fought in WW2, many came over and have contributed to our core services since.

    However India is also not in the core Anglosphere either as like Ireland it was neutral in the Cold War and is not in NATO
    Doesn't change the basic point.

    That reminds me: I've never been able to extract an answer from you as to whether it was right for UKG to give India (as it was then) independence.

    Blaming it on Labour Governments does not count.
    Oh it does.

    The Republic of Ireland is not in NATO, is not in the Commonwealth, does not share our head of state, was neutral in the Cold War and was officially neutral in WW2.

    On no grounds whatsoever is the Republic of Ireland a core member of the Anglosphere. It is outer tier at most.

    As I said Churchill opposed Indian independence as did most Tories at the time, it was Attlee and Labour who gave then independence. However I am not answering irrelevant hypotheticals as I am a Tory for now and India is independent in the reality of today
    You're the one who insists relentlessly that what suited Henry VIII is absolutely the right way to run the UK today. And claims that the C of E is apolitical. When anyoine who knows any history knows that the very notion of an Established Church was always one of the most explosive political issues in any of the four nations of the so-called United Kingdom.
    Nope, the Church of England was created as the established church precisely to ensure the effective established church was not Roman Catholic Popery
    And, pray, why did Henry VIII not want Popery? YOu have a history degree ...
    Because he preferred fresh flowers, none of that dried stuff.
    More to the point, he preferred fresh ovaries.
    Hmm, I'm a bit worried now that my post came across as sexist and ageist, instead of it just being a pun on the word "popery". I wasn't comparing women to flowers. Popery. Potpourri. Nothing unkind meant about older women.
    Too late, consider yourself cancelled.
    "No pot pourri!"
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    tlg86 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pretty happy about my Quordle performance today

    Daily Quordle #49
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  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    tlg86 said:

    So Putin supporters are Scousers..

    Tomasz Oryński
    @TOrynski
    If I read it correctly (i am not really any good in reading Russian) the sign on his jacket says "I support Putin".

    Great photo.


    https://twitter.com/TOrynski/status/1503477508091621384

    You look in the dustbin for something to eat?
    You find a dead dog and you think it's a treat?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,860
    edited March 2022
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'm surprisingly confident that if Russia and China team up against the West they'll both end up losing, and the West will come out of it stronger than before.

    China and Russia being bossom buddies wouldn't be amazing news for the UK, but still less positive would be China and America being best buddies - the rest of the world wouldn't stand a chance. Balance of powers has always been the aim of British foreign policy, and unsurprisingly we have not prospered during the period of US hegemony. To the extent that most here (and probably in the wider country) are dribblingly terrified of a world with competing powers, where we have to find our way independently.
    "We have not prospered during the period of US hegemony"

    What drugs do you take?


    Sure, America supplanted us as global superpower, but that was gonna happen at some point, we are a small island and we governed 1/3 of the world, it was pretty unsustainable, and we kept it going for a fantastically long time

    Far far better we were overtaken by the USA than by the USSR (which America defeated) or Nazi Germany (which us and the Americans and USSR defeated) or by China (which we are now trying to defeat)

    Meanwhile, under this awful "US hegemony" Britons have become richer, healthier and better educated than at any time in their history, and the UK still wields significant soft and hard power, and is one of the world's leading nations of the 2nd rank, behind the USA and China

    Quite frankly, as I look around the world this evening, I would quite like outright US hegemony - 1990s style - to return and run the world for another century or two. Sadly that period has passed
    It would be better, I think, if Europe pulled together and became able to look after our own defence, but your fundamental point is sound. I was thinking at the weekend how different the world would feel if, say, America as the technological, economically and militarily dominant power were the fascist dictatorship and, say, Russia as the weaker power were the bastion of democracy on whom we depended. Not a happy place to be.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,521
    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'm surprisingly confident that if Russia and China team up against the West they'll both end up losing, and the West will come out of it stronger than before.

    Unless there is a nuclear holocaust in which case nobody will be stronger than before by my understanding of the term
    South Africa?
    This, ladies and gentlemen, is an excellent example of HYUFD's thought:
    That the destruction of Western and Eastern countries "strengthens" those not directly destroyed because they would power on up the ranks. Never mind the fact that the biosphere would be a fucking state and the world economy would head backwards a number of centuries. Rank is what matters in HYUFD's Trumpist view, and a negative sum game makes sense if only the others get hurt much more than you do.

    HYUFD would cut his leg off if he knew everybody else would lose both legs.
    Well the South African President has taken a neutral stance between Russia and NATO not wholly without self interest.

    I would prefer him to be in the NATO camp but that is the reality
    Given you don't think some countries already in it should have been allowed to join NATO I am surprised you would advocate for others to either join or be allied to it.
    I refer you to my earlier post.
    HYUFD would be happy for South Africa to join because he fancies our chances of beating Eswatini in a war.
    Russia's a big boy, so we shouldn't meddle. Rank rank rank. Hit the little guy, give your lunch money to the big guy. No need to mess around with principles or whatever.
    It is only NATO and the Anglosphere which help us to contain the big boys of Russia and China.

    Yes we can defend the Falklands and Gibraltar and deal with Nationalists within our own islands but we cannot contain Putin and Xi alone
    I would suggest that Japan and South Korea - neither of which are either NATO nor Anglosphere are very much holding their end up as well.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660
    Leon said:

    tlg86 said:

    So Putin supporters are Scousers..

    Tomasz Oryński
    @TOrynski
    If I read it correctly (i am not really any good in reading Russian) the sign on his jacket says "I support Putin".

    Great photo.


    https://twitter.com/TOrynski/status/1503477508091621384

    You look in the dustbin for something to eat?
    You find a dead dog and you think it's a treat?
    Dead rat mate
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'm surprisingly confident that if Russia and China team up against the West they'll both end up losing, and the West will come out of it stronger than before.

    Unless there is a nuclear holocaust in which case nobody will be stronger than before by my understanding of the term
    South Africa?
    This, ladies and gentlemen, is an excellent example of HYUFD's thought:
    That the destruction of Western and Eastern countries "strengthens" those not directly destroyed because they would power on up the ranks. Never mind the fact that the biosphere would be a fucking state and the world economy would head backwards a number of centuries. Rank is what matters in HYUFD's Trumpist view, and a negative sum game makes sense if only the others get hurt much more than you do.

    HYUFD would cut his leg off if he knew everybody else would lose both legs.
    Well the South African President has taken a neutral stance between Russia and NATO not wholly without self interest.

    I would prefer him to be in the NATO camp but that is the reality
    Given you don't think some countries already in it should have been allowed to join NATO I am surprised you would advocate for others to either join or be allied to it.
    I refer you to my earlier post.
    HYUFD would be happy for South Africa to join because he fancies our chances of beating Eswatini in a war.
    Russia's a big boy, so we shouldn't meddle. Rank rank rank. Hit the little guy, give your lunch money to the big guy. No need to mess around with principles or whatever.
    It is only NATO and the Anglosphere which help us to contain the big boys of Russia and China.

    Yes we can defend the Falklands and Gibraltar and deal with Nationalists within our own islands but we cannot contain Putin and Xi alone
    I would suggest that Japan and South Korea - neither of which are either NATO nor Anglosphere are very much holding their end up as well.
    Japan drive on the left :lol:
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'm surprisingly confident that if Russia and China team up against the West they'll both end up losing, and the West will come out of it stronger than before.

    Unless there is a nuclear holocaust in which case nobody will be stronger than before by my understanding of the term
    South Africa?
    This, ladies and gentlemen, is an excellent example of HYUFD's thought:
    That the destruction of Western and Eastern countries "strengthens" those not directly destroyed because they would power on up the ranks. Never mind the fact that the biosphere would be a fucking state and the world economy would head backwards a number of centuries. Rank is what matters in HYUFD's Trumpist view, and a negative sum game makes sense if only the others get hurt much more than you do.

    HYUFD would cut his leg off if he knew everybody else would lose both legs.
    Well the South African President has taken a neutral stance between Russia and NATO not wholly without self interest.

    I would prefer him to be in the NATO camp but that is the reality
    Albania, former Stalinist/Maoist/Hoxhaist dictatorship is, much to my surprise, a NATO member.
    Germany, former Kaiserist autocracy and later National Socialist dictatorship is also a NATO member!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    They may have not left Russia, but consumer goods company Procter & Gamble is increasing prices tomorrow…..

    By 43%

    https://twitter.com/girkingirkin/status/1503412565170401280?s=21
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,860
    An employee on Russia’s state Channel One television has interrupted the channel’s main news programme with an extraordinary protest against Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine.

    Marina Ovsyannikova, an editor at Channel One, burst on to the set of the live broadcast of the nightly news on Monday evening, shouting: “Stop the war. No to war.”

    She also held a sign saying: “Don’t believe the propaganda. They’re lying to you here.” It was signed in English: “Russians against the war”.

    The news anchor continued to read from her teleprompter speaking louder in an attempt to drown out Ovsyannikova, but her protest could be seen and heard for several seconds before the channel switched to a record segment.

    Ovsyannikova also released a pre-recorded video on her social media channels in which she expressed her shame at working for Channel One and spreading “Kremlin propaganda”.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    rpjs said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    FF43 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    biggles said:

    NEW DELHI, March 14 (Reuters) - India is considering taking up a Russian offer to buy its crude oil and other commodities at discounted prices with payment via a rupee-rouble transaction, two Indian officials said, amid tough Western sanctions on Russia over its invasion of Ukraine.

    India, which imports 80% of its oil needs, usually buys about 2% to 3% of its supplies from Russia. But with oil prices up 40% so far this year, the government is looking at increasing this if it can help reduce its rising energy bill.

    "Russia is offering oil and other commodities at a heavy discount. We will be happy to take that. We have some issues like tanker, insurance cover and oil blends to be resolved. Once we have that we will take the discount offer," one of the Indian government officials said.


    https://www.reuters.com/world/india/india-considers-buying-discounted-russian-oil-commodities-officials-say-2022-03-14/

    How will the oil get there? (Assuming the west buys up tanker capacity and doesn’t want it to).
    Well, there are lots of oil tankers in the world, and many of them are owned by private companies in tax havens who will happily take a premium rate to shift oil from Russia to Delhi.

    However... India's behaviour here is pretty appalling. The reality is that Russia will continue to be able to export oil (albeit gas is harder), if the Indians and Chinese say 'discount oil, lovely jubbly'.
    Tactless of India to be quite so blatant in their sanctions busting. They are supposed to be a trusted partner, blah blah...
    Terrible advert for the symbolic value of the Commonwealth.
    Or the Anglosphere. Or is it only white countries that are considered anglosphere?
    On the strictest definition, the core Anglosphere is only the UK, USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglosphere#:~:text=The Anglosphere is a group,diplomatic and military co-operation.
    And Ireland - 93% speak English as a first language (UK only 92%).
    Ireland can also be included but is not automatically in the core 5
    Anglosphere, % speaking English as a first language:

    Ireland 93.2%
    UK 92.3%
    NZ 85.9%
    USA 78.1%
    Aus 72.7%
    Can 54.4%.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_population
    How bloody big is Quebec and/or how many First Nations languages are there is only 54.4% of Canadians speak English as a first language?
    83% of Canadians speak English on that link
    You seem to have missed a critical word in my sentence. Or rather you misread it, and have amended, but that now doesn't make sense as a response to what I posted.
    Regardless as I said English language speakers is NOT the key criteria for the Anglosphere.

    The key criteria is military, political, diplomatic and cultural ties.

    Hence it only includes at its core the UK, USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand
    "Anglo" refers to the English language. Besides There are plenty of military, political, diplomatic and cultural ties between the UK and Ireland, particularly the last three. On the military front, you will know plenty of Irishmen fought in the UK forces in BOTH World Wars.
    Anglophone countries refers primarily to those which mainly speak English.

    Anglosphere countries are primarily those united by military, diplomatic, cultural and political ties.

    Ireland fought with us in WW1 but was neutral in WW2 and the Cold War unlike the USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand. The Republic of Ireland is also not in NATO
    Ireland (as a country, obv) didn't exist in WW1.
    Indeed, the only reason it fought with us is it was still in the UK.

    The Irish Free State was neutral in WW2 and the Republic of Ireland was neutral in the Cold War.

    The Republic of Ireland is also not in NATO or the Commonwealth.

    Hence it is not a core Anglosphere nation
    More Irish men served in the British armed forces during the Second World War than served in the Irish armed forces.

    ETA and by “Irish men” I mean from the 26 counties.
    You could legitimately also add the number of UK people who were released to join the UK forces because so many Irish people came over to work on such things as airfield construction.
    So what, millions of Indians also fought in WW2, many came over and have contributed to our core services since.

    However India is also not in the core Anglosphere either as like Ireland it was neutral in the Cold War and is not in NATO
    Doesn't change the basic point.

    That reminds me: I've never been able to extract an answer from you as to whether it was right for UKG to give India (as it was then) independence.

    Blaming it on Labour Governments does not count.
    Oh it does.

    The Republic of Ireland is not in NATO, is not in the Commonwealth, does not share our head of state, was neutral in the Cold War and was officially neutral in WW2.

    On no grounds whatsoever is the Republic of Ireland a core member of the Anglosphere. It is outer tier at most.

    As I said Churchill opposed Indian independence as did most Tories at the time, it was Attlee and Labour who gave then independence. However I am not answering irrelevant hypotheticals as I am a Tory for now and India is independent in the reality of today
    You're the one who insists relentlessly that what suited Henry VIII is absolutely the right way to run the UK today. And claims that the C of E is apolitical. When anyoine who knows any history knows that the very notion of an Established Church was always one of the most explosive political issues in any of the four nations of the so-called United Kingdom.
    Nope, the Church of England was created as the established church precisely to ensure the effective established church was not Roman Catholic Popery
    And, pray, why did Henry VIII not want Popery? YOu have a history degree ...
    Because he preferred fresh flowers, none of that dried stuff.
    More to the point, he preferred fresh ovaries.
    Hmm, I'm a bit worried now that my post came across as sexist and ageist, instead of it just being a pun on the word "popery". I wasn't comparing women to flowers. Popery. Potpourri. Nothing unkind meant about older women.
    I'm embarrassed I didn't spot the potpourri gag. When one fails like that it means the other absorbs their PB power, like Highlander. Use it well.
    "There can be only Pun!"
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    Leon said:

    tlg86 said:

    So Putin supporters are Scousers..

    Tomasz Oryński
    @TOrynski
    If I read it correctly (i am not really any good in reading Russian) the sign on his jacket says "I support Putin".

    Great photo.


    https://twitter.com/TOrynski/status/1503477508091621384

    You look in the dustbin for something to eat?
    You find a dead dog and you think it's a treat?
    "Just eat"
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,421
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'm surprisingly confident that if Russia and China team up against the West they'll both end up losing, and the West will come out of it stronger than before.

    China and Russia being bossom buddies wouldn't be amazing news for the UK, but still less positive would be China and America being best buddies - the rest of the world wouldn't stand a chance. Balance of powers has always been the aim of British foreign policy, and unsurprisingly we have not prospered during the period of US hegemony. To the extent that most here (and probably in the wider country) are dribblingly terrified of a world with competing powers, where we have to find our way independently.
    "We have not prospered during the period of US hegemony"

    What drugs do you take?


    Sure, America supplanted us as global superpower, but that was gonna happen at some point, we are a small island and we governed 1/3 of the world, it was pretty unsustainable, and we kept it going for a fantastically long time

    Far far better we were overtaken by the USA than by the USSR (which America defeated) or Nazi Germany (which us and the Americans and USSR defeated) or by China (which we are now trying to defeat)

    Meanwhile, under this awful "US hegemony" Britons have become richer, healthier and better educated than at any time in their history, and the UK still wields significant soft and hard power, and is one of the world's leading nations of the 2nd rank, behind the USA and China

    Quite frankly, as I look around the world this evening, I would quite like outright US hegemony - 1990s style - to return and run the world for another century or two. Sadly that period has passed
    It would be better, I think, if Europe pulled together and became able to look after our own defence, but your fundamental point is sound. I was thinking at the weekend how different the world would feel if, say, America as the technological, economically and militarily dominant power were the fascist dictatorship and, say, Russia as the weaker power were the bastion of democracy on whom we depended. Not a happy place to be.
    The point is that global hegemony of any stripe makes it not a very comfortable place to be, though I agree that it is made more palatable if the hegemon has the trappings of Western democracy. The 19th century had a panoply of powers, large, small, medium, land powers, sea powers etc. Britain was a leading power, but never a global hegemon, and much as I am a fan of us, had we been, we may also have been unbearably exploitative - power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. The 19th century saw unparalleled peace, prosperity, and human advancement.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited March 2022

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'm surprisingly confident that if Russia and China team up against the West they'll both end up losing, and the West will come out of it stronger than before.

    Unless there is a nuclear holocaust in which case nobody will be stronger than before by my understanding of the term
    South Africa?
    This, ladies and gentlemen, is an excellent example of HYUFD's thought:
    That the destruction of Western and Eastern countries "strengthens" those not directly destroyed because they would power on up the ranks. Never mind the fact that the biosphere would be a fucking state and the world economy would head backwards a number of centuries. Rank is what matters in HYUFD's Trumpist view, and a negative sum game makes sense if only the others get hurt much more than you do.

    HYUFD would cut his leg off if he knew everybody else would lose both legs.
    Well the South African President has taken a neutral stance between Russia and NATO not wholly without self interest.

    I would prefer him to be in the NATO camp but that is the reality
    Given you don't think some countries already in it should have been allowed to join NATO I am surprised you would advocate for others to either join or be allied to it.
    I refer you to my earlier post.
    HYUFD would be happy for South Africa to join because he fancies our chances of beating Eswatini in a war.
    Russia's a big boy, so we shouldn't meddle. Rank rank rank. Hit the little guy, give your lunch money to the big guy. No need to mess around with principles or whatever.
    It is only NATO and the Anglosphere which help us to contain the big boys of Russia and China.

    Yes we can defend the Falklands and Gibraltar and deal with Nationalists within our own islands but we cannot contain Putin and Xi alone
    I would suggest that Japan and South Korea - neither of which are either NATO nor Anglosphere are very much holding their end up as well.
    To an extent but as you say they are not in NATO nor are they in the AUKUS security agreement either
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717
    from Helsingin Sanomat on Finnish president Sauli Niinistö's interview with Christiane Amanpour for CNN in London after briefing Boris Johnson and Nordic leaders:

    1) Putin wants recognition that Crimea is part of Russia.

    2) Putin wants the Donbas to be considered part of Russia. Putin interprets the Donbass region broadly - separatist areas alone are not enough.

    3) Putin wants Ukraine demilitarized. Niinistö did not reveal in detail what this would mean in practice. It has been interpreted in the past that Putin would seek to destroy Ukraine's military infrastructure.

    4) Ukraine will be made a neutral country. It should therefore not join NATO or the European Union.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    "US astronaut’s family in tears amid fears son could be left in space"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/russia-mark-vande-hei-nasa-astronaut-stranded-space-ukraine-b987771.htm
  • IanB2 said:

    An employee on Russia’s state Channel One television has interrupted the channel’s main news programme with an extraordinary protest against Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine.

    Marina Ovsyannikova, an editor at Channel One, burst on to the set of the live broadcast of the nightly news on Monday evening, shouting: “Stop the war. No to war.”

    She also held a sign saying: “Don’t believe the propaganda. They’re lying to you here.” It was signed in English: “Russians against the war”.

    The news anchor continued to read from her teleprompter speaking louder in an attempt to drown out Ovsyannikova, but her protest could be seen and heard for several seconds before the channel switched to a record segment.

    Ovsyannikova also released a pre-recorded video on her social media channels in which she expressed her shame at working for Channel One and spreading “Kremlin propaganda”.

    Russian twitter thread about her translated..

    Pavel Chikov
    @pchikov
    Who is this star of the First Channel? She must be protected urgently.

    Marina Ovsyannikova, editor of the First Channel. Detained, taken to the Ostankino police station. Went lawyer Daniil Berman

    there will be a protocol on the fashionable article on military censorship 20.3.3 of the Code of Administrative Offenses for discrediting the Russian armed forces

    The Ostankino police station does not have it. The police will apparently hide Marina from her lawyer.




    Marina Ovsyannikova can be held by the police for more than 3 hours only in two cases: registration of a protocol under the "arrest" article of the Code of Administrative Offenses - petty hooliganism (Article 20.1) or disobedience to the requirements of a police officer (Article 19.3) detention on suspicion of committing a crime1️⃣2️⃣

    Article 20.3.3 of the Code of Administrative Offenses on discrediting the armed forces, which appeared on March 4 and has already been applied at least 164 times in Russia for anti-war slogans, implies only punishment in the form of a fine. It does not allow the police to hold Ovsyannikova for more than three hours.

    ❗️Marina Ovsyannikova is in the duty part of the Ostankino television center, - says lawyer Daniil Berman. He is not allowed to visit her. At the television center there are several police cars of the Internal Affairs Department of the North-Eastern Administrative District of Moscow.

    https://twitter.com/pchikov/status/1503447201858691076
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011

    Great. Just great.



    Allie Hodgkins-Brown
    @AllieHBNews
    ·
    17m
    Tuesday’s FINANCIAL TIMES: “China signalled willingness to provide Russia with military support, says US” #TomorrowsPapersToday

    Let's impose sanctions on China and stop importing their plastic tat.

    Mind, the west has turned a blind eye to their behaviour in Tibet, HK, etc, so I am not holding my breath.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    rpjs said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    FF43 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    biggles said:

    NEW DELHI, March 14 (Reuters) - India is considering taking up a Russian offer to buy its crude oil and other commodities at discounted prices with payment via a rupee-rouble transaction, two Indian officials said, amid tough Western sanctions on Russia over its invasion of Ukraine.

    India, which imports 80% of its oil needs, usually buys about 2% to 3% of its supplies from Russia. But with oil prices up 40% so far this year, the government is looking at increasing this if it can help reduce its rising energy bill.

    "Russia is offering oil and other commodities at a heavy discount. We will be happy to take that. We have some issues like tanker, insurance cover and oil blends to be resolved. Once we have that we will take the discount offer," one of the Indian government officials said.


    https://www.reuters.com/world/india/india-considers-buying-discounted-russian-oil-commodities-officials-say-2022-03-14/

    How will the oil get there? (Assuming the west buys up tanker capacity and doesn’t want it to).
    Well, there are lots of oil tankers in the world, and many of them are owned by private companies in tax havens who will happily take a premium rate to shift oil from Russia to Delhi.

    However... India's behaviour here is pretty appalling. The reality is that Russia will continue to be able to export oil (albeit gas is harder), if the Indians and Chinese say 'discount oil, lovely jubbly'.
    Tactless of India to be quite so blatant in their sanctions busting. They are supposed to be a trusted partner, blah blah...
    Terrible advert for the symbolic value of the Commonwealth.
    Or the Anglosphere. Or is it only white countries that are considered anglosphere?
    On the strictest definition, the core Anglosphere is only the UK, USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglosphere#:~:text=The Anglosphere is a group,diplomatic and military co-operation.
    And Ireland - 93% speak English as a first language (UK only 92%).
    Ireland can also be included but is not automatically in the core 5
    Anglosphere, % speaking English as a first language:

    Ireland 93.2%
    UK 92.3%
    NZ 85.9%
    USA 78.1%
    Aus 72.7%
    Can 54.4%.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_population
    How bloody big is Quebec and/or how many First Nations languages are there is only 54.4% of Canadians speak English as a first language?
    83% of Canadians speak English on that link
    You seem to have missed a critical word in my sentence. Or rather you misread it, and have amended, but that now doesn't make sense as a response to what I posted.
    Regardless as I said English language speakers is NOT the key criteria for the Anglosphere.

    The key criteria is military, political, diplomatic and cultural ties.

    Hence it only includes at its core the UK, USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand
    "Anglo" refers to the English language. Besides There are plenty of military, political, diplomatic and cultural ties between the UK and Ireland, particularly the last three. On the military front, you will know plenty of Irishmen fought in the UK forces in BOTH World Wars.
    Anglophone countries refers primarily to those which mainly speak English.

    Anglosphere countries are primarily those united by military, diplomatic, cultural and political ties.

    Ireland fought with us in WW1 but was neutral in WW2 and the Cold War unlike the USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand. The Republic of Ireland is also not in NATO
    Ireland (as a country, obv) didn't exist in WW1.
    Indeed, the only reason it fought with us is it was still in the UK.

    The Irish Free State was neutral in WW2 and the Republic of Ireland was neutral in the Cold War.

    The Republic of Ireland is also not in NATO or the Commonwealth.

    Hence it is not a core Anglosphere nation
    More Irish men served in the British armed forces during the Second World War than served in the Irish armed forces.

    ETA and by “Irish men” I mean from the 26 counties.
    Still percentage wise far less than in the UK, Australia, Canada and New Zealand and Ireland was also still neutral in the Cold War unlike them.

    The Republic of Ireland is also still not in NATO unlike most of them either, so remains outside the core Anglosphere
    On your logic, Northern Ireland wasn't really in the UK either. There was no conscription in WW2.
    Northern Ireland was and is a part of the UK, it did what the UK government told it to do in defence and foreign policy
    Doesn't change the fact that it wasn't enough of a part of the UK for the UK government to treat it as a total part of the UK.

    Just like the Tory Government today doesn't consider it part of the UK.
    Yes it does, Northern Ireland went to war with the Nazis as the UK government decided for it.

    This Tory Government will soon invoke Article 16
    IN the knowledge that most people in NI oppose it.

    Colonialists. Imperialists.
    Most Unionists support it and as long as the UK government does not impose a hard border in Ireland the rest have no grounds to complain
    But Article 16 is all about invoking a hard border.
    No it isn't, a technical solution can be used in Ireland
    That is what is happening. You can even read the EU's own proposal for the techincal solution here (https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/STUD/2017/596828/IPOL_STU(2017)596828_EN.pdf)

  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    My advice, as armchair strategist, is to distract Putin with another proxy war, whilst he is getting bogged down in Ukraine. Find some new breakaway republic to back, or something.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,241

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'm surprisingly confident that if Russia and China team up against the West they'll both end up losing, and the West will come out of it stronger than before.

    Unless there is a nuclear holocaust in which case nobody will be stronger than before by my understanding of the term
    South Africa?
    This, ladies and gentlemen, is an excellent example of HYUFD's thought:
    That the destruction of Western and Eastern countries "strengthens" those not directly destroyed because they would power on up the ranks. Never mind the fact that the biosphere would be a fucking state and the world economy would head backwards a number of centuries. Rank is what matters in HYUFD's Trumpist view, and a negative sum game makes sense if only the others get hurt much more than you do.

    HYUFD would cut his leg off if he knew everybody else would lose both legs.
    Well the South African President has taken a neutral stance between Russia and NATO not wholly without self interest.

    I would prefer him to be in the NATO camp but that is the reality
    Albania, former Stalinist/Maoist/Hoxhaist dictatorship is, much to my surprise, a NATO member.
    Germany, former Kaiserist autocracy and later National Socialist dictatorship is also a NATO member!
    That was a bit longer ago. Someone of my age would have spent the first 26 years of their life under Stalinism (broadly defined)
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    Andy_JS said:
    I recently read Tim Peake's book Ask An Astronaut (it's very good, by the way).

    He covered many things regarding complications with space flight and all the dangers. He didn't cover the scenario facing Vande Hei.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647
    A
    darkage said:

    My advice, as armchair strategist, is to distract Putin with another proxy war, whilst he is getting bogged down in Ukraine. Find some new breakaway republic to back, or something.

    Wasn't that what Japan was up to a few days ago?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714

    Visegrád 24
    @visegrad24
    ·
    47m
    Bayer has threatened to suspend crop supply sales to Russia unless the country stops its attacks on Ukraine.

    The German drug and agrochemical conglomerate, a leading seed and crop treatment supplier, said it is considering halting the sale of essential farming inputs to Russia.

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1503475625792786436
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,241
    darkage said:

    My advice, as armchair strategist, is to distract Putin with another proxy war, whilst he is getting bogged down in Ukraine. Find some new breakaway republic to back, or something.

    Indeed. A second/third front would be great. Maybe if the Ukrainians can find and kill Kadyrov the Chechens will kick off again.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,421
    edited March 2022

    darkage said:

    My advice, as armchair strategist, is to distract Putin with another proxy war, whilst he is getting bogged down in Ukraine. Find some new breakaway republic to back, or something.

    Indeed. A second/third front would be great. Maybe if the Ukrainians can find and kill Kadyrov the Chechens will kick off again.
    Yay, more death!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    Andy_JS said:
    Page not found
  • Andy_JS said:
    Page not found
    Add an l on the end of the link (ie .html)
  • glwglw Posts: 9,906
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Important

    "In recent days China has locked down tens of millions in several cities, as it braces for a much worse wave than Jan 2020 where the bulk of infection was confined to Hubei province."

    The Chinese are expecting the Omicron wave to be MUCH WORSE than Wuhan/Hubei

    https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1503420730100396032?s=20&t=x2ek4lWyGUhV0RNMeOO3Kg

    This story could be as big as Ukraine, in its own way



    Christ...


    John Burn-Murdoch
    @jburnmurdoch
    ·
    2h
    Around 15 million over-80s in mainland China are still unvaccinated. An astonishing number
    China claims that not a single person in their country has died of Covid-19 since April 2020. The number has been stuck on 4,636 since then.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
    Last time I could be arsed to check I think I calculated (sub-back of a envelope level accuracy) that China was effectively claiming to have done 20 times better than even New Zealand. Hmmm. Very hmmm.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    darkage said:

    My advice, as armchair strategist, is to distract Putin with another proxy war, whilst he is getting bogged down in Ukraine. Find some new breakaway republic to back, or something.

    They may not necessarily need our encouragement. Huge, diverse country with a collapsing economy, decimated military and an autocratic government losing control? Sounds ripe for rebellion.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,241

    darkage said:

    My advice, as armchair strategist, is to distract Putin with another proxy war, whilst he is getting bogged down in Ukraine. Find some new breakaway republic to back, or something.

    Indeed. A second/third front would be great. Maybe if the Ukrainians can find and kill Kadyrov the Chechens will kick off again.
    Yay, more death!
    That's how you win wars, I'm afraid.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714
    Bleak reading.



    Putin and Xi Jinping Flirt With the Attractions of a Wider European War

    "The new threat to Europe is that in going for broke, Putin might try to widen the conflict on the Hitlerian assumption that the best way to retrieve a massive strategic blunder is to make another one somewhere else; throwing all the cards in the air to see if a better hand is available when they land. "


    "In essence, Putin seems to be flirting with the idea of a greater European war since he cannot see how to win the one he has already started. "


    https://tippingpoint2020s.com/2022/03/14/putin-and-xi-jinping-flirt-with-the-attractions-of-a-wider-european-war/
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    IshmaelZ said:
    Usual MSM garbage - https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/03/after-two-weeks-of-war-the-international-space-station-flies-on/

    In addition, SpaceX has something close to launch on demand - With their current cadence there is a rocket on the pad being prepped for a flight nearly continuously.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,906

    IshmaelZ said:
    Usual MSM garbage - https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/03/after-two-weeks-of-war-the-international-space-station-flies-on/

    In addition, SpaceX has something close to launch on demand - With their current cadence there is a rocket on the pad being prepped for a flight nearly continuously.
    Musk would love to launch a rescure mission, maybe that's why he's offering to fight Putin?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,860

    IanB2 said:

    An employee on Russia’s state Channel One television has interrupted the channel’s main news programme with an extraordinary protest against Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine.

    Marina Ovsyannikova, an editor at Channel One, burst on to the set of the live broadcast of the nightly news on Monday evening, shouting: “Stop the war. No to war.”

    She also held a sign saying: “Don’t believe the propaganda. They’re lying to you here.” It was signed in English: “Russians against the war”.

    The news anchor continued to read from her teleprompter speaking louder in an attempt to drown out Ovsyannikova, but her protest could be seen and heard for several seconds before the channel switched to a record segment.

    Ovsyannikova also released a pre-recorded video on her social media channels in which she expressed her shame at working for Channel One and spreading “Kremlin propaganda”.

    Russian twitter thread about her translated..

    Pavel Chikov
    @pchikov
    Who is this star of the First Channel? She must be protected urgently.

    Marina Ovsyannikova, editor of the First Channel. Detained, taken to the Ostankino police station. Went lawyer Daniil Berman

    there will be a protocol on the fashionable article on military censorship 20.3.3 of the Code of Administrative Offenses for discrediting the Russian armed forces

    The Ostankino police station does not have it. The police will apparently hide Marina from her lawyer.




    Marina Ovsyannikova can be held by the police for more than 3 hours only in two cases: registration of a protocol under the "arrest" article of the Code of Administrative Offenses - petty hooliganism (Article 20.1) or disobedience to the requirements of a police officer (Article 19.3) detention on suspicion of committing a crime1️⃣2️⃣

    Article 20.3.3 of the Code of Administrative Offenses on discrediting the armed forces, which appeared on March 4 and has already been applied at least 164 times in Russia for anti-war slogans, implies only punishment in the form of a fine. It does not allow the police to hold Ovsyannikova for more than three hours.

    ❗️Marina Ovsyannikova is in the duty part of the Ostankino television center, - says lawyer Daniil Berman. He is not allowed to visit her. At the television center there are several police cars of the Internal Affairs Department of the North-Eastern Administrative District of Moscow.

    https://twitter.com/pchikov/status/1503447201858691076
    She’s not going to be seen again while Putin is still around. Hopefully he’ll be gone and she’ll be released eventually. As she says in her video, “they can’t put everyone in prison”.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,523

    Evening folks.

    Well, signed up for the official Government refugee system today saying we have space in our house for a couple of Ukrainians so we will see what happens next.

    A few thoughts on the process.

    The introductory pages seem to be unnecessarily convoluted to actually get to the sign up page. I assume this is because they want to make sure everyone has properly absorbed the implications of signing up but it didn't seem immediately obvious where to go to get to the bit where you fill out your details. At one point I did find that clicking buttons which were supposed to get me to the forms put me back to the start again.

    Secondly the forms themselves are very straight forward and easy to complete. A good thing and well done.

    Thirdly - and my main criticism - is the idiotic decision that initially you will only be able to host someone who is not your relative if you have independently made contact with them through social media. as it stands you have to be able to name the person or persons you are expecting to host. Now I know a couple of people professionally in Ukraine but none of them are interested in being given safe haven. They are too busy trying to kick the Russians out of their country. So for now there seems to be no way to link up ourselves as people wiling to host refugees with Ukrainians who need refuge.

    This seems to me to be a particularly daft system and one that - since it relies on social media contacts - seems rife for the less scrupulous including traffickers to take advantage. The Government must have a list of those they have already accepted for entry to the UK so why not just assign people as necessary.

    I will keep you informed of developments.

    Anyone else signed up yet who can compare notes and thoughts?

    Well done Richard. My landlady has tried, but the website seemed to be down - she'll have another go in a couple of days. She was confused by the term "sponsor" - thought it meant someone had to vouch for her.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    An employee on Russia’s state Channel One television has interrupted the channel’s main news programme with an extraordinary protest against Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine.

    Marina Ovsyannikova, an editor at Channel One, burst on to the set of the live broadcast of the nightly news on Monday evening, shouting: “Stop the war. No to war.”

    She also held a sign saying: “Don’t believe the propaganda. They’re lying to you here.” It was signed in English: “Russians against the war”.

    The news anchor continued to read from her teleprompter speaking louder in an attempt to drown out Ovsyannikova, but her protest could be seen and heard for several seconds before the channel switched to a record segment.

    Ovsyannikova also released a pre-recorded video on her social media channels in which she expressed her shame at working for Channel One and spreading “Kremlin propaganda”.

    Russian twitter thread about her translated..

    Pavel Chikov
    @pchikov
    Who is this star of the First Channel? She must be protected urgently.

    Marina Ovsyannikova, editor of the First Channel. Detained, taken to the Ostankino police station. Went lawyer Daniil Berman

    there will be a protocol on the fashionable article on military censorship 20.3.3 of the Code of Administrative Offenses for discrediting the Russian armed forces

    The Ostankino police station does not have it. The police will apparently hide Marina from her lawyer.




    Marina Ovsyannikova can be held by the police for more than 3 hours only in two cases: registration of a protocol under the "arrest" article of the Code of Administrative Offenses - petty hooliganism (Article 20.1) or disobedience to the requirements of a police officer (Article 19.3) detention on suspicion of committing a crime1️⃣2️⃣

    Article 20.3.3 of the Code of Administrative Offenses on discrediting the armed forces, which appeared on March 4 and has already been applied at least 164 times in Russia for anti-war slogans, implies only punishment in the form of a fine. It does not allow the police to hold Ovsyannikova for more than three hours.

    ❗️Marina Ovsyannikova is in the duty part of the Ostankino television center, - says lawyer Daniil Berman. He is not allowed to visit her. At the television center there are several police cars of the Internal Affairs Department of the North-Eastern Administrative District of Moscow.

    https://twitter.com/pchikov/status/1503447201858691076
    She’s not going to be seen again while Putin is still around. Hopefully he’ll be gone and she’ll be released eventually. As she says in her video, “they can’t put everyone in prison”.
    He can actually. In the NK sense of RU is becoming one massive open prison.
  • Re election, it will be between a majority and a Hung Parliament. If polls show even a slim majority Johnson goes for it I reckon
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    Bleak reading.



    Putin and Xi Jinping Flirt With the Attractions of a Wider European War

    "The new threat to Europe is that in going for broke, Putin might try to widen the conflict on the Hitlerian assumption that the best way to retrieve a massive strategic blunder is to make another one somewhere else; throwing all the cards in the air to see if a better hand is available when they land. "


    "In essence, Putin seems to be flirting with the idea of a greater European war since he cannot see how to win the one he has already started. "


    https://tippingpoint2020s.com/2022/03/14/putin-and-xi-jinping-flirt-with-the-attractions-of-a-wider-european-war/

    Though also suggests the sanctions imposed by the West on Russia may have put Xi off invading Taiwan
  • LDLFLDLF Posts: 160
    darkage said:

    My advice, as armchair strategist, is to distract Putin with another proxy war, whilst he is getting bogged down in Ukraine. Find some new breakaway republic to back, or something.

    What are the Tartars up to these days? They seem the obvious choice.
  • HYUFD said:

    Re election, it will be between a majority and a Hung Parliament. If polls show even a slim majority Johnson goes for it I reckon

    We are in the middle of the greatest European crisis since WW2. The idea Johnson will call a general election now or before 2024 is ludicrous and certainly not on current polling
    2023 seems likely
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714
    HYUFD said:

    Re election, it will be between a majority and a Hung Parliament. If polls show even a slim majority Johnson goes for it I reckon

    We are in the middle of the greatest European crisis since WW2. The idea Johnson will call a general election now or before 2024 is ludicrous
    Exactly.

    Seems unlikely it will be over before the end of 2022 and indeed could well be far far worse by then.

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    glw said:

    IshmaelZ said:
    Usual MSM garbage - https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/03/after-two-weeks-of-war-the-international-space-station-flies-on/

    In addition, SpaceX has something close to launch on demand - With their current cadence there is a rocket on the pad being prepped for a flight nearly continuously.
    Musk would love to launch a rescure mission, maybe that's why he's offering to fight Putin?
    It's more about how fucked in the head Dmitry "I'm Fucked In De head" Rogozin is when he is on/off his pills.

    It is interesting ho quiet Musk has been on twitter - apart from the Starlink offer to Ukraine.

    - Russian space program fall down, go doom
    - Everyone round the world is queuing up to see if Musk has spare launches
    - Half his American rivals were using Russian/Ukrainian stuff
    - Sue Origin still can't make rocket engines.
    - Boeing still can't fly a capsule.

    Quite a lot of people are speculating that SpaceX will fly OneWeb satellites, just for the LOLs, and being able to tell the anti-trust lawyers to sit and spin....

    The real problem is that if the Russians turn off the system that de-saturates the orientation gyros for ISS, then the station loses attitude control fairly rapidly. It's in the Russian segment of ISS.....
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Re election, it will be between a majority and a Hung Parliament. If polls show even a slim majority Johnson goes for it I reckon

    I can’t see Johnson going early unless there is a substantial poll lead, and even then the ghost of 2017 will loom large. Same applies if Johnson is replaced. It’s not as if there isn’t a decent majority to do stuff, if only the world would stop throwing curve balls all the time...
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'm surprisingly confident that if Russia and China team up against the West they'll both end up losing, and the West will come out of it stronger than before.

    Unless there is a nuclear holocaust in which case nobody will be stronger than before by my understanding of the term
    South Africa?
    This, ladies and gentlemen, is an excellent example of HYUFD's thought:
    That the destruction of Western and Eastern countries "strengthens" those not directly destroyed because they would power on up the ranks. Never mind the fact that the biosphere would be a fucking state and the world economy would head backwards a number of centuries. Rank is what matters in HYUFD's Trumpist view, and a negative sum game makes sense if only the others get hurt much more than you do.

    HYUFD would cut his leg off if he knew everybody else would lose both legs.
    Well the South African President has taken a neutral stance between Russia and NATO not wholly without self interest.

    I would prefer him to be in the NATO camp but that is the reality
    Given you don't think some countries already in it should have been allowed to join NATO I am surprised you would advocate for others to either join or be allied to it.
    I refer you to my earlier post.
    HYUFD would be happy for South Africa to join because he fancies our chances of beating Eswatini in a war.
    Russia's a big boy, so we shouldn't meddle. Rank rank rank. Hit the little guy, give your lunch money to the big guy. No need to mess around with principles or whatever.
    It is only NATO and the Anglosphere which help us to contain the big boys of Russia and China.

    Yes we can defend the Falklands and Gibraltar and deal with Nationalists within our own islands but we cannot contain Putin and Xi alone
    I would suggest that Japan and South Korea - neither of which are either NATO nor Anglosphere are very much holding their end up as well.
    To an extent but as you say they are not in NATO nor are they in the AUKUS security agreement either
    You really are out of touch if you think that AUKUS would take action without the approval and engagement of South Korea and Japan
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    Presumably if China supplies Russia, the
    West would have to think about onshoring some of the lost manufacturing capability (hopefully not just the cheap tat..)
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714
    President Biden’s national security adviser met with a top Chinese official on Monday to warn against China giving Russia military or economic assistance, as the Kremlin struggles with the aftermath of its invasion of Ukraine.

    NY Times blog
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    President Biden’s national security adviser met with a top Chinese official on Monday to warn against China giving Russia military or economic assistance, as the Kremlin struggles with the aftermath of its invasion of Ukraine.

    NY Times blog

    I don't really see what would be in it for the Chinese to get involved in any way at all. Can't they just sit it out and then buy up Russian assets at knockdown prices?
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,285

    Re election, it will be between a majority and a Hung Parliament. If polls show even a slim majority Johnson goes for it I reckon

    Either a majority or a hung parliament are the only two options available: who do you think will have the majority?
  • HYUFD said:

    Re election, it will be between a majority and a Hung Parliament. If polls show even a slim majority Johnson goes for it I reckon

    We are in the middle of the greatest European crisis since WW2. The idea Johnson will call a general election now or before 2024 is ludicrous and certainly not on current polling
    2023 seems likely
    Only after boundary changes
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,521

    Evening folks.

    Well, signed up for the official Government refugee system today saying we have space in our house for a couple of Ukrainians so we will see what happens next.

    A few thoughts on the process.

    The introductory pages seem to be unnecessarily convoluted to actually get to the sign up page. I assume this is because they want to make sure everyone has properly absorbed the implications of signing up but it didn't seem immediately obvious where to go to get to the bit where you fill out your details. At one point I did find that clicking buttons which were supposed to get me to the forms put me back to the start again.

    Secondly the forms themselves are very straight forward and easy to complete. A good thing and well done.

    Thirdly - and my main criticism - is the idiotic decision that initially you will only be able to host someone who is not your relative if you have independently made contact with them through social media. as it stands you have to be able to name the person or persons you are expecting to host. Now I know a couple of people professionally in Ukraine but none of them are interested in being given safe haven. They are too busy trying to kick the Russians out of their country. So for now there seems to be no way to link up ourselves as people wiling to host refugees with Ukrainians who need refuge.

    This seems to me to be a particularly daft system and one that - since it relies on social media contacts - seems rife for the less scrupulous including traffickers to take advantage. The Government must have a list of those they have already accepted for entry to the UK so why not just assign people as necessary.

    I will keep you informed of developments.

    Anyone else signed up yet who can compare notes and thoughts?

    Well done Richard. My landlady has tried, but the website seemed to be down - she'll have another go in a couple of days. She was confused by the term "sponsor" - thought it meant someone had to vouch for her.
    No I read that to mean that we as the hosts are 'sponsoring' the Ukrainians by providing them with accommodation etc and helping them find work, schooling, getting onto the local Health system etc.

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,860
    HYUFD said:

    Re election, it will be between a majority and a Hung Parliament. If polls show even a slim majority Johnson goes for it I reckon

    We are in the middle of the greatest European crisis since WW2. The idea Johnson will call a general election now or before 2024 is ludicrous and certainly not on current polling
    So it’s ludicrous in principle, but all your posts contain the vital point that really it’s about self-interest
  • 43,000 applications for Gove's sponsorship scheme received by 9.00pm tonight
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,052
    MISTY said:

    darkage said:

    (reposted FPT)
    I think that Johnson will ride out the Lebedev issues. He will keep saying that the security services never issued any meaningful warnings about him. I still haven't seen any significant evidence that Lebedev is a malign influence, other than he had a line to Putin - not unexpected for someone in his position. How Lebedev got to be where he is, and where all his money came from, is an interesting question; but Boris Johnson cannot be blamed for that.

    Johnson's luck is astounding.

    Ukraine has enabled him to get beyond partygate, keep covid blunders out of the headlines, turn immigration around from a very unpromising place, bury tax rises and find an excuse to finesse energy policy beyond net zero.

    And then there's inflation......Food prices? Petrol costs? Vlad's fault guvnor.

    Its almost tailor made.
    Just as Brexit saved him from 2 years of bad Brexit's-not-working headlines!
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Russia’s suggested peace terms (reported upthread via the Helsinki newspaper) are interesting, I note that they wish Ukraine not to join EU.

    Opportunity for UK and Ukraine to craft some kind of extra-EU sphere, perhaps along with EFTA.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    Noticing more Johnson on here and less Boris. The war effect? Whatever, good to see.
  • MISTY said:

    darkage said:

    (reposted FPT)
    I think that Johnson will ride out the Lebedev issues. He will keep saying that the security services never issued any meaningful warnings about him. I still haven't seen any significant evidence that Lebedev is a malign influence, other than he had a line to Putin - not unexpected for someone in his position. How Lebedev got to be where he is, and where all his money came from, is an interesting question; but Boris Johnson cannot be blamed for that.

    Johnson's luck is astounding.

    Ukraine has enabled him to get beyond partygate, keep covid blunders out of the headlines, turn immigration around from a very unpromising place, bury tax rises and find an excuse to finesse energy policy beyond net zero.

    And then there's inflation......Food prices? Petrol costs? Vlad's fault guvnor.

    Its almost tailor made.
    Just as Brexit saved him from 2 years of bad Brexit's-not-working headlines!
    Do you not mean covid ?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    Russia’s suggested peace terms (reported upthread via the Helsinki newspaper) are interesting, I note that they wish Ukraine not to join EU.

    Really? They've kept that wish very quiet. If only they'd done something to show how much they hated the idea.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    kinabalu said:

    Noticing more Johnson on here and less Boris. The war effect? Whatever, good to see.

    It's your imagination.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    An employee on Russia’s state Channel One television has interrupted the channel’s main news programme with an extraordinary protest against Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine.

    Marina Ovsyannikova, an editor at Channel One, burst on to the set of the live broadcast of the nightly news on Monday evening, shouting: “Stop the war. No to war.”

    She also held a sign saying: “Don’t believe the propaganda. They’re lying to you here.” It was signed in English: “Russians against the war”.

    The news anchor continued to read from her teleprompter speaking louder in an attempt to drown out Ovsyannikova, but her protest could be seen and heard for several seconds before the channel switched to a record segment.

    Ovsyannikova also released a pre-recorded video on her social media channels in which she expressed her shame at working for Channel One and spreading “Kremlin propaganda”.

    Russian twitter thread about her translated..

    Pavel Chikov
    @pchikov
    Who is this star of the First Channel? She must be protected urgently.

    Marina Ovsyannikova, editor of the First Channel. Detained, taken to the Ostankino police station. Went lawyer Daniil Berman

    there will be a protocol on the fashionable article on military censorship 20.3.3 of the Code of Administrative Offenses for discrediting the Russian armed forces

    The Ostankino police station does not have it. The police will apparently hide Marina from her lawyer.




    Marina Ovsyannikova can be held by the police for more than 3 hours only in two cases: registration of a protocol under the "arrest" article of the Code of Administrative Offenses - petty hooliganism (Article 20.1) or disobedience to the requirements of a police officer (Article 19.3) detention on suspicion of committing a crime1️⃣2️⃣

    Article 20.3.3 of the Code of Administrative Offenses on discrediting the armed forces, which appeared on March 4 and has already been applied at least 164 times in Russia for anti-war slogans, implies only punishment in the form of a fine. It does not allow the police to hold Ovsyannikova for more than three hours.

    ❗️Marina Ovsyannikova is in the duty part of the Ostankino television center, - says lawyer Daniil Berman. He is not allowed to visit her. At the television center there are several police cars of the Internal Affairs Department of the North-Eastern Administrative District of Moscow.

    https://twitter.com/pchikov/status/1503447201858691076
    She’s not going to be seen again while Putin is still around. Hopefully he’ll be gone and she’ll be released eventually. As she says in her video, “they can’t put everyone in prison”.
    Stalin had a good go. Anyone who might be a threat anyway.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,941

    Evening folks.

    Well, signed up for the official Government refugee system today saying we have space in our house for a couple of Ukrainians so we will see what happens next.

    A few thoughts on the process.

    The introductory pages seem to be unnecessarily convoluted to actually get to the sign up page. I assume this is because they want to make sure everyone has properly absorbed the implications of signing up but it didn't seem immediately obvious where to go to get to the bit where you fill out your details. At one point I did find that clicking buttons which were supposed to get me to the forms put me back to the start again.

    Secondly the forms themselves are very straight forward and easy to complete. A good thing and well done.

    Thirdly - and my main criticism - is the idiotic decision that initially you will only be able to host someone who is not your relative if you have independently made contact with them through social media. as it stands you have to be able to name the person or persons you are expecting to host. Now I know a couple of people professionally in Ukraine but none of them are interested in being given safe haven. They are too busy trying to kick the Russians out of their country. So for now there seems to be no way to link up ourselves as people wiling to host refugees with Ukrainians who need refuge.

    This seems to me to be a particularly daft system and one that - since it relies on social media contacts - seems rife for the less scrupulous including traffickers to take advantage. The Government must have a list of those they have already accepted for entry to the UK so why not just assign people as necessary.

    I will keep you informed of developments.

    Anyone else signed up yet who can compare notes and thoughts?

    Well done Richard. My landlady has tried, but the website seemed to be down - she'll have another go in a couple of days. She was confused by the term "sponsor" - thought it meant someone had to vouch for her.
    No I read that to mean that we as the hosts are 'sponsoring' the Ukrainians by providing them with accommodation etc and helping them find work, schooling, getting onto the local Health system etc.

    Well done, and thank you. I'd love to take someone in, but my place only has one bedroom.
    kle4 said:

    President Biden’s national security adviser met with a top Chinese official on Monday to warn against China giving Russia military or economic assistance, as the Kremlin struggles with the aftermath of its invasion of Ukraine.

    NY Times blog

    I don't really see what would be in it for the Chinese to get involved in any way at all. Can't they just sit it out and then buy up Russian assets at knockdown prices?
    I think China is perhaps the only economy that can withstand autarky. We could be witnessing the end of globalization, a model which the West depends on for its prosperity. At the moment, we're bankrupting Russia. But if this escalates, we could end up bankrupt as well. For that reason, it may benefit China to pour a little petrol on the fire.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    To placate Russia I suggest Ukraine join the European Union of European Union Allies. Who could object to joining the EUEUA?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'm surprisingly confident that if Russia and China team up against the West they'll both end up losing, and the West will come out of it stronger than before.

    Unless there is a nuclear holocaust in which case nobody will be stronger than before by my understanding of the term
    South Africa?
    This, ladies and gentlemen, is an excellent example of HYUFD's thought:
    That the destruction of Western and Eastern countries "strengthens" those not directly destroyed because they would power on up the ranks. Never mind the fact that the biosphere would be a fucking state and the world economy would head backwards a number of centuries. Rank is what matters in HYUFD's Trumpist view, and a negative sum game makes sense if only the others get hurt much more than you do.

    HYUFD would cut his leg off if he knew everybody else would lose both legs.
    Well the South African President has taken a neutral stance between Russia and NATO not wholly without self interest.

    I would prefer him to be in the NATO camp but that is the reality
    Given you don't think some countries already in it should have been allowed to join NATO I am surprised you would advocate for others to either join or be allied to it.
    I refer you to my earlier post.
    HYUFD would be happy for South Africa to join because he fancies our chances of beating Eswatini in a war.
    Russia's a big boy, so we shouldn't meddle. Rank rank rank. Hit the little guy, give your lunch money to the big guy. No need to mess around with principles or whatever.
    It is only NATO and the Anglosphere which help us to contain the big boys of Russia and China.

    Yes we can defend the Falklands and Gibraltar and deal with Nationalists within our own islands but we cannot contain Putin and Xi alone
    I would suggest that Japan and South Korea - neither of which are either NATO nor Anglosphere are very much holding their end up as well.
    To an extent but as you say they are not in NATO nor are they in the AUKUS security agreement either
    You really are out of touch if you think that AUKUS would take action without the approval and engagement of South Korea and Japan
    Depends what it was, if China ever threatened Australia it would
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    kle4 said:

    Russia’s suggested peace terms (reported upthread via the Helsinki newspaper) are interesting, I note that they wish Ukraine not to join EU.

    Really? They've kept that wish very quiet. If only they'd done something to show how much they hated the idea.
    Despite your sarcasm, I don’t think they’d spelled it out before.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,779
    kinabalu said:

    Noticing more Johnson on here and less Boris. The war effect? Whatever, good to see.

    Not a good time to have a Russian name I guess. Although, if you're going to fund your party with shed loads of roubles from dodgy oligarchs then calling yourself "Boris" at least has the benefit of consistency.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561
    kinabalu said:

    Noticing more Johnson on here and less Boris. The war effect? Whatever, good to see.

    Boris will be Boris.....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    kyf_100 said:

    Evening folks.

    Well, signed up for the official Government refugee system today saying we have space in our house for a couple of Ukrainians so we will see what happens next.

    A few thoughts on the process.

    The introductory pages seem to be unnecessarily convoluted to actually get to the sign up page. I assume this is because they want to make sure everyone has properly absorbed the implications of signing up but it didn't seem immediately obvious where to go to get to the bit where you fill out your details. At one point I did find that clicking buttons which were supposed to get me to the forms put me back to the start again.

    Secondly the forms themselves are very straight forward and easy to complete. A good thing and well done.

    Thirdly - and my main criticism - is the idiotic decision that initially you will only be able to host someone who is not your relative if you have independently made contact with them through social media. as it stands you have to be able to name the person or persons you are expecting to host. Now I know a couple of people professionally in Ukraine but none of them are interested in being given safe haven. They are too busy trying to kick the Russians out of their country. So for now there seems to be no way to link up ourselves as people wiling to host refugees with Ukrainians who need refuge.

    This seems to me to be a particularly daft system and one that - since it relies on social media contacts - seems rife for the less scrupulous including traffickers to take advantage. The Government must have a list of those they have already accepted for entry to the UK so why not just assign people as necessary.

    I will keep you informed of developments.

    Anyone else signed up yet who can compare notes and thoughts?

    Well done Richard. My landlady has tried, but the website seemed to be down - she'll have another go in a couple of days. She was confused by the term "sponsor" - thought it meant someone had to vouch for her.
    No I read that to mean that we as the hosts are 'sponsoring' the Ukrainians by providing them with accommodation etc and helping them find work, schooling, getting onto the local Health system etc.

    Well done, and thank you. I'd love to take someone in, but my place only has one bedroom.
    kle4 said:

    President Biden’s national security adviser met with a top Chinese official on Monday to warn against China giving Russia military or economic assistance, as the Kremlin struggles with the aftermath of its invasion of Ukraine.

    NY Times blog

    I don't really see what would be in it for the Chinese to get involved in any way at all. Can't they just sit it out and then buy up Russian assets at knockdown prices?
    I think China is perhaps the only economy that can withstand autarky. We could be witnessing the end of globalization, a model which the West depends on for its prosperity. At the moment, we're bankrupting Russia. But if this escalates, we could end up bankrupt as well. For that reason, it may benefit China to pour a little petrol on the fire.
    The Chinese model of economic growth is very dependent on cheap exports to the US and Europe.

    If demand for that falls it hits them too
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    Sizewell b to continue for another 20 years (if possible)

    https://www.ft.com/content/51d4ff8c-f0c0-4082-8db6-11c031be1420
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    kinabalu said:

    Noticing more Johnson on here and less Boris. The war effect? Whatever, good to see.

    You can’t win. Call him Boris - people complain. Call him Johnson - people complain. Perhaps there should be some pb approved list for what name we can use to refer to politicians?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,640
    kle4 said:

    President Biden’s national security adviser met with a top Chinese official on Monday to warn against China giving Russia military or economic assistance, as the Kremlin struggles with the aftermath of its invasion of Ukraine.

    NY Times blog

    I don't really see what would be in it for the Chinese to get involved in any way at all. Can't they just sit it out and then buy up Russian assets at knockdown prices?
    They will be able to buy Russia for 10 cents on the dollar by Easter.

    Crazy to side with Russia. Why chain yourself to a corpse?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    kle4 said:

    Russia’s suggested peace terms (reported upthread via the Helsinki newspaper) are interesting, I note that they wish Ukraine not to join EU.

    Really? They've kept that wish very quiet. If only they'd done something to show how much they hated the idea.
    Despite your sarcasm, I don’t think they’d spelled it out before.
    Without the sarcasm, that's nonsense. They've repeatedly demanded 'neutrality' including through a change to the constitution, which is required as it apparently currently references seeking membership of the EU and NATO.

    So whether it is something Ukraine could accept or not, Russia very much have spelled it out before in unambiguous terms. Here they did it 8 days ago (including the rather laughable comment that Ukraine can live as it wants, but only under conditions Russia imposes, ie not as it wants)

    https://www.reuters.com/world/kremlin-says-russian-military-action-will-stop-moment-if-ukraine-meets-2022-03-07/

    On the issue of neutrality, Peskov said: "They should make amendments to the constitution according to which Ukraine would reject any aims to enter any bloc."
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,523

    Evening folks.

    Well, signed up for the official Government refugee system today saying we have space in our house for a couple of Ukrainians so we will see what happens next.

    A few thoughts on the process.

    The introductory pages seem to be unnecessarily convoluted to actually get to the sign up page. I assume this is because they want to make sure everyone has properly absorbed the implications of signing up but it didn't seem immediately obvious where to go to get to the bit where you fill out your details. At one point I did find that clicking buttons which were supposed to get me to the forms put me back to the start again.

    Secondly the forms themselves are very straight forward and easy to complete. A good thing and well done.

    Thirdly - and my main criticism - is the idiotic decision that initially you will only be able to host someone who is not your relative if you have independently made contact with them through social media. as it stands you have to be able to name the person or persons you are expecting to host. Now I know a couple of people professionally in Ukraine but none of them are interested in being given safe haven. They are too busy trying to kick the Russians out of their country. So for now there seems to be no way to link up ourselves as people wiling to host refugees with Ukrainians who need refuge.

    This seems to me to be a particularly daft system and one that - since it relies on social media contacts - seems rife for the less scrupulous including traffickers to take advantage. The Government must have a list of those they have already accepted for entry to the UK so why not just assign people as necessary.

    I will keep you informed of developments.

    Anyone else signed up yet who can compare notes and thoughts?

    Well done Richard. My landlady has tried, but the website seemed to be down - she'll have another go in a couple of days. She was confused by the term "sponsor" - thought it meant someone had to vouch for her.
    No I read that to mean that we as the hosts are 'sponsoring' the Ukrainians by providing them with accommodation etc and helping them find work, schooling, getting onto the local Health system etc.

    Yes, that's my understanding too. But perhaps it will confuse some - maybe "hosting" gets the sense closer. Anyway, it's all good.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    The latest pretend we care scam from no 10 is this ludicrous new scheme . Instead of a simple system to match people they force the public to have to name those they want to sponsor . Thereby making sure less Ukrainians come to the UK .

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    kinabalu said:

    Noticing more Johnson on here and less Boris. The war effect? Whatever, good to see.

    You can’t win. Call him Boris - people complain. Call him Johnson - people complain. Perhaps there should be some pb approved list for what name we can use to refer to politicians?
    Or, people call them whatever they like without anyone complaining. If someone wants to go with Bojo or Bozo that's fine too.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    President Biden’s national security adviser met with a top Chinese official on Monday to warn against China giving Russia military or economic assistance, as the Kremlin struggles with the aftermath of its invasion of Ukraine.

    NY Times blog

    I don't really see what would be in it for the Chinese to get involved in any way at all. Can't they just sit it out and then buy up Russian assets at knockdown prices?
    They will be able to buy Russia for 10 cents on the dollar by Easter.
    Maybe we should do it that instead.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'm surprisingly confident that if Russia and China team up against the West they'll both end up losing, and the West will come out of it stronger than before.

    Unless there is a nuclear holocaust in which case nobody will be stronger than before by my understanding of the term
    South Africa?
    This, ladies and gentlemen, is an excellent example of HYUFD's thought:
    That the destruction of Western and Eastern countries "strengthens" those not directly destroyed because they would power on up the ranks. Never mind the fact that the biosphere would be a fucking state and the world economy would head backwards a number of centuries. Rank is what matters in HYUFD's Trumpist view, and a negative sum game makes sense if only the others get hurt much more than you do.

    HYUFD would cut his leg off if he knew everybody else would lose both legs.
    Well the South African President has taken a neutral stance between Russia and NATO not wholly without self interest.

    I would prefer him to be in the NATO camp but that is the reality
    Given you don't think some countries already in it should have been allowed to join NATO I am surprised you would advocate for others to either join or be allied to it.
    I refer you to my earlier post.
    HYUFD would be happy for South Africa to join because he fancies our chances of beating Eswatini in a war.
    Russia's a big boy, so we shouldn't meddle. Rank rank rank. Hit the little guy, give your lunch money to the big guy. No need to mess around with principles or whatever.
    It is only NATO and the Anglosphere which help us to contain the big boys of Russia and China.

    Yes we can defend the Falklands and Gibraltar and deal with Nationalists within our own islands but we cannot contain Putin and Xi alone
    I would suggest that Japan and South Korea - neither of which are either NATO nor Anglosphere are very much holding their end up as well.
    To an extent but as you say they are not in NATO nor are they in the AUKUS security agreement either
    You really are out of touch if you think that AUKUS would take action without the approval and engagement of South Korea and Japan
    The new president in South Korea seems quite keen on improving somewhat frosty relations with Japan, and leaning away from China and towards the alliance with the US.
    https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/South-Korea-election/How-Yoon-may-shift-South-Korean-foreign-policy-5-things-to-know

    HYUFD seems to have little clue.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    kle4 said:

    To placate Russia I suggest Ukraine join the European Union of European Union Allies. Who could object to joining the EUEUA?

    I return to my proposal that it replace Scotland in the U.K. when it leaves, and we get the President as PM.
  • How many half giraffes can you fit in a double decker bus?

    "Asteroid half the size of a giraffe strikes Earth off the coast of Iceland – just two HOURS after it was discovered by astronomers"
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-10610491/Asteroid-half-size-giraffe-strikes-Earth-coast-Iceland.html
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Noticing more Johnson on here and less Boris. The war effect? Whatever, good to see.

    It's your imagination.
    That's what I thought at first! But no, I did the audit, checked against my records, and there are no less than THREE posters just on the latter part of this thread who usually do B but have switched to J. It's quite striking. And I really hope I haven't now jinxed it. Won't forgive myself if I have.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    How many half giraffes can you fit in a double decker bus?

    "Asteroid half the size of a giraffe strikes Earth off the coast of Iceland – just two HOURS after it was discovered by astronomers"
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-10610491/Asteroid-half-size-giraffe-strikes-Earth-coast-Iceland.html

    What a weird size descriptor!
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    edited March 2022

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Important

    "In recent days China has locked down tens of millions in several cities, as it braces for a much worse wave than Jan 2020 where the bulk of infection was confined to Hubei province."

    The Chinese are expecting the Omicron wave to be MUCH WORSE than Wuhan/Hubei

    https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1503420730100396032?s=20&t=x2ek4lWyGUhV0RNMeOO3Kg

    This story could be as big as Ukraine, in its own way

    Some mocked those on pb who said getting lots of infections after the oldies and infirm were double vaccinated was a good thing. They would have kept us locked down (or at least tighter restrictions) for much longer. China will now reap what it has sewn by being so aggressively zero Covid combined with a less effective vaccine programme. At least NZ got the vaccination side right, and I think on the whole their ‘war’ has been pretty good, especially in terms of deaths, and probably in terms of time spent ‘open’ internally over the last two years.
    Most people (on here) recognised that Zero Covid was a dumb policy, because - at some point - you need to open up again.

    On the other hand, I think you can argue that a "Zero Covid" policy early in the pandemic (assuming you have an island far from anywhere), followed by opening up once people are fully vaccinated is far from a stupid strategy.

    It's just that many places (*cough* China) failed to appreciate that at a certain point, you need to let it go.
    Yes, I think that NZ used it’s natural advantages well. Yes they have restricted access to outsiders, but I suspect for many it’s been a price worth paying. They are now having plenty of cases but not much death, although it might seem like it to them.
    I would say though, that contrary to some people’s ideas, we could never have adopted a similar strategy in the U.K.
    Agreed on both counts. NZ has had an excellent pandemic overall - and including - the omicron wave. Which makes Ardern’s current strategy all the more nonsensical: it’s winding up New Zealanders who can see that passports to buy a cup of tea and draconian travel restrictions on countries with lower covid rates demonstrably do not work, and are - to put it mildly - a huge PITA.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986
    HYUFD said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Evening folks.

    Well, signed up for the official Government refugee system today saying we have space in our house for a couple of Ukrainians so we will see what happens next.

    A few thoughts on the process.

    The introductory pages seem to be unnecessarily convoluted to actually get to the sign up page. I assume this is because they want to make sure everyone has properly absorbed the implications of signing up but it didn't seem immediately obvious where to go to get to the bit where you fill out your details. At one point I did find that clicking buttons which were supposed to get me to the forms put me back to the start again.

    Secondly the forms themselves are very straight forward and easy to complete. A good thing and well done.

    Thirdly - and my main criticism - is the idiotic decision that initially you will only be able to host someone who is not your relative if you have independently made contact with them through social media. as it stands you have to be able to name the person or persons you are expecting to host. Now I know a couple of people professionally in Ukraine but none of them are interested in being given safe haven. They are too busy trying to kick the Russians out of their country. So for now there seems to be no way to link up ourselves as people wiling to host refugees with Ukrainians who need refuge.

    This seems to me to be a particularly daft system and one that - since it relies on social media contacts - seems rife for the less scrupulous including traffickers to take advantage. The Government must have a list of those they have already accepted for entry to the UK so why not just assign people as necessary.

    I will keep you informed of developments.

    Anyone else signed up yet who can compare notes and thoughts?

    Well done Richard. My landlady has tried, but the website seemed to be down - she'll have another go in a couple of days. She was confused by the term "sponsor" - thought it meant someone had to vouch for her.
    No I read that to mean that we as the hosts are 'sponsoring' the Ukrainians by providing them with accommodation etc and helping them find work, schooling, getting onto the local Health system etc.

    Well done, and thank you. I'd love to take someone in, but my place only has one bedroom.
    kle4 said:

    President Biden’s national security adviser met with a top Chinese official on Monday to warn against China giving Russia military or economic assistance, as the Kremlin struggles with the aftermath of its invasion of Ukraine.

    NY Times blog

    I don't really see what would be in it for the Chinese to get involved in any way at all. Can't they just sit it out and then buy up Russian assets at knockdown prices?
    I think China is perhaps the only economy that can withstand autarky. We could be witnessing the end of globalization, a model which the West depends on for its prosperity. At the moment, we're bankrupting Russia. But if this escalates, we could end up bankrupt as well. For that reason, it may benefit China to pour a little petrol on the fire.
    The Chinese model of economic growth is very dependent on cheap exports to the US and Europe.

    If demand for that falls it hits them too
    I think China is on the wrong path. It’s slowed down then ceased its decades long path towards being a globally integrated market economy in favour of cronyism, state capture and the chilling wind of autocracy. The way it has hollowed out Hong Kong is totally self destructive. Plus demography is not on its side, and I don’t get the sense it will ever embrace full throttle immigration and multiculturalism.

    It will remain powerful, probably increasingly militarily so, but I’m not convinced it will ever be as rich as Europe or the US.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134

    kinabalu said:

    Noticing more Johnson on here and less Boris. The war effect? Whatever, good to see.

    Boris will be Boris.....
    Well you're hard core. Anything from your end is a bonus.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051

    How many half giraffes can you fit in a double decker bus?

    "Asteroid half the size of a giraffe strikes Earth off the coast of Iceland – just two HOURS after it was discovered by astronomers"
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-10610491/Asteroid-half-size-giraffe-strikes-Earth-coast-Iceland.html

    If you’ve got the Olympic size swimming pool number, I have a conversion table.
This discussion has been closed.