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In England only in London does Starmer have a “Best PM” lead over Johnson – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,350
    MrEd said:

    First, well done @Richard_Tyndall

    Second, I’ve just been doing a quick ratio of Russia / Ukrainian losses on Oryx. It’s a very rough measure and doesn’t take into account the types of losses but there has been a noticeable tick-up in the ratio of Russian / Ukrainian losses - it was around 3.5-3.6x yesterday as a whole and now it’s approaching 3.8x. It probably reflects lumpiness but it does look like the Ukrainians had a good day.

    Its been yet another day of roughly zero progress from the Russians. It is beginning to look as if they have reached their territorial limits. They can still do a lot of damage of course, especially with artillary.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,502
    Farooq said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    rpjs said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    FF43 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    biggles said:

    NEW DELHI, March 14 (Reuters) - India is considering taking up a Russian offer to buy its crude oil and other commodities at discounted prices with payment via a rupee-rouble transaction, two Indian officials said, amid tough Western sanctions on Russia over its invasion of Ukraine.

    India, which imports 80% of its oil needs, usually buys about 2% to 3% of its supplies from Russia. But with oil prices up 40% so far this year, the government is looking at increasing this if it can help reduce its rising energy bill.

    "Russia is offering oil and other commodities at a heavy discount. We will be happy to take that. We have some issues like tanker, insurance cover and oil blends to be resolved. Once we have that we will take the discount offer," one of the Indian government officials said.


    https://www.reuters.com/world/india/india-considers-buying-discounted-russian-oil-commodities-officials-say-2022-03-14/

    How will the oil get there? (Assuming the west buys up tanker capacity and doesn’t want it to).
    Well, there are lots of oil tankers in the world, and many of them are owned by private companies in tax havens who will happily take a premium rate to shift oil from Russia to Delhi.

    However... India's behaviour here is pretty appalling. The reality is that Russia will continue to be able to export oil (albeit gas is harder), if the Indians and Chinese say 'discount oil, lovely jubbly'.
    Tactless of India to be quite so blatant in their sanctions busting. They are supposed to be a trusted partner, blah blah...
    Terrible advert for the symbolic value of the Commonwealth.
    Or the Anglosphere. Or is it only white countries that are considered anglosphere?
    On the strictest definition, the core Anglosphere is only the UK, USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglosphere#:~:text=The Anglosphere is a group,diplomatic and military co-operation.
    And Ireland - 93% speak English as a first language (UK only 92%).
    Ireland can also be included but is not automatically in the core 5
    Anglosphere, % speaking English as a first language:

    Ireland 93.2%
    UK 92.3%
    NZ 85.9%
    USA 78.1%
    Aus 72.7%
    Can 54.4%.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_population
    How bloody big is Quebec and/or how many First Nations languages are there is only 54.4% of Canadians speak English as a first language?
    83% of Canadians speak English on that link
    You seem to have missed a critical word in my sentence. Or rather you misread it, and have amended, but that now doesn't make sense as a response to what I posted.
    Regardless as I said English language speakers is NOT the key criteria for the Anglosphere.

    The key criteria is military, political, diplomatic and cultural ties.

    Hence it only includes at its core the UK, USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand
    "Anglo" refers to the English language. Besides There are plenty of military, political, diplomatic and cultural ties between the UK and Ireland, particularly the last three. On the military front, you will know plenty of Irishmen fought in the UK forces in BOTH World Wars.
    Anglophone countries refers primarily to those which mainly speak English.

    Anglosphere countries are primarily those united by military, diplomatic, cultural and political ties.

    Ireland fought with us in WW1 but was neutral in WW2 and the Cold War unlike the USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand. The Republic of Ireland is also not in NATO
    Ireland (as a country, obv) didn't exist in WW1.
    Indeed, the only reason it fought with us is it was still in the UK.

    The Irish Free State was neutral in WW2 and the Republic of Ireland was neutral in the Cold War.

    The Republic of Ireland is also not in NATO or the Commonwealth.

    Hence it is not a core Anglosphere nation
    More Irish men served in the British armed forces during the Second World War than served in the Irish armed forces.

    ETA and by “Irish men” I mean from the 26 counties.
    You could legitimately also add the number of UK people who were released to join the UK forces because so many Irish people came over to work on such things as airfield construction.
    So what, millions of Indians also fought in WW2, many came over and have contributed to our core services since.

    However India is also not in the core Anglosphere either as like Ireland it was neutral in the Cold War and is not in NATO
    Doesn't change the basic point.

    That reminds me: I've never been able to extract an answer from you as to whether it was right for UKG to give India (as it was then) independence.

    Blaming it on Labour Governments does not count.
    Oh it does.

    The Republic of Ireland is not in NATO, is not in the Commonwealth, does not share our head of state, was neutral in the Cold War and was officially neutral in WW2.

    On no grounds whatsoever is the Republic of Ireland a core member of the Anglosphere. It is outer tier at most.

    As I said Churchill opposed Indian independence as did most Tories at the time, it was Attlee and Labour who gave then independence. However I am not answering irrelevant hypotheticals as I am a Tory for now and India is independent in the reality of today
    You're the one who insists relentlessly that what suited Henry VIII is absolutely the right way to run the UK today. And claims that the C of E is apolitical. When anyoine who knows any history knows that the very notion of an Established Church was always one of the most explosive political issues in any of the four nations of the so-called United Kingdom.
    Nope, the Church of England was created as the established church precisely to ensure the effective established church was not Roman Catholic Popery
    And, pray, why did Henry VIII not want Popery? YOu have a history degree ...
    Because he preferred fresh flowers, none of that dried stuff.
    More to the point, he preferred fresh ovaries.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,097
    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'm surprisingly confident that if Russia and China team up against the West they'll both end up losing, and the West will come out of it stronger than before.

    Unless there is a nuclear holocaust in which case nobody will be stronger than before by my understanding of the term
    South Africa?
    This, ladies and gentlemen, is an excellent example of HYUFD's thought:
    That the destruction of Western and Eastern countries "strengthens" those not directly destroyed because they would power on up the ranks. Never mind the fact that the biosphere would be a fucking state and the world economy would head backwards a number of centuries. Rank is what matters in HYUFD's Trumpist view, and a negative sum game makes sense if only the others get hurt much more than you do.

    HYUFD would cut his leg off if he knew everybody else would lose both legs.
    Well the South African President has taken a neutral stance between Russia and NATO not wholly without self interest.

    I would prefer him to be in the NATO camp but that is the reality
    Given you don't think some countries already in it should have been allowed to join NATO I am surprised you would advocate for others to either join or be allied to it.
    I refer you to my earlier post.
    HYUFD would be happy for South Africa to join because he fancies our chances of beating Eswatini in a war.
    Russia's a big boy, so we shouldn't meddle. Rank rank rank. Hit the little guy, give your lunch money to the big guy. No need to mess around with principles or whatever.
    It is only NATO and the Anglosphere which help us to contain the big boys of Russia and China.

    Yes we can defend the Falklands and Gibraltar and deal with Nationalists within our own islands but we cannot contain Putin and Xi alone
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Could Boris conceivably call a quasi-Khaki Election in 2022?

    As with Salisbury's Conservative-Liberal Unionist alliance that won the original Khaki Election in 1900, Boris's Conservative & Unionist Party will almost certain need to time any such electoral gambit this year, to occur BEFORE the end of the War (Boer then, Ukrainian today).

    Personally think proper atmosphere AND timing are less propitious and likely harder for Tories this millennium than last. But who knows?

    Not unless the Tories get a big poll lead no
    If Putin were to fall as a result of the Ukraine invasion on Johnson's watch, Johnson would be insane not to go for a quick win.
    Not unless he had over a 12% poll lead, otherwise he still loses seats and as 2017 showed voters dislike snap elections
    But if an early election looks like a small majority and another five years he would take that.
    Why? Just putting myself in his position - I’d want to get at least a year or two without Covid or thermonuclear war to do something with my 80 seat majority. A year or two as elected dictator is better than five as Theresa May.
    He retains his reputation as a winner and gives himself a guaranteed extra 3 and a half years for Carrie and Johnson to enjoy the wallpaper.
    He has his flock to look after.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,502
    ...
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'm surprisingly confident that if Russia and China team up against the West they'll both end up losing, and the West will come out of it stronger than before.

    China and Russia being bossom buddies wouldn't be amazing news for the UK, but still less positive would be China and America being best buddies - the rest of the world wouldn't stand a chance. Balance of powers has always been the aim of British foreign policy, and unsurprisingly we have not prospered during the period of US hegemony. To the extent that most here (and probably in the wider country) are dribblingly terrified of a world with competing powers, where we have to find our way independently.
    "We have not prospered during the period of US hegemony"

    What drugs do you take?


    Sure, America supplanted us as global superpower, but that was gonna happen at some point, we are a small island and we governed 1/3 of the world, it was pretty unsustainable, and we kept it going for a fantastically long time

    Far far better we were overtaken by the USA than by the USSR (which America defeated) or Nazi Germany (which us and the Americans and USSR defeated) or by China (which we are now trying to defeat)

    Meanwhile, under this awful "US hegemony" Britons have become richer, healthier and better educated than at any time in their history, and the UK still wields significant soft and hard power, and is one of the world's leading nations of the 2nd rank, behind the USA and China

    Quite frankly, as I look around the world this evening, I would quite like outright US hegemony - 1990s style - to return and run the world for another century or two. Sadly that period has passed
    I'm high on life.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,791
    edited March 2022

    Leon said:

    Important

    "In recent days China has locked down tens of millions in several cities, as it braces for a much worse wave than Jan 2020 where the bulk of infection was confined to Hubei province."

    The Chinese are expecting the Omicron wave to be MUCH WORSE than Wuhan/Hubei

    https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1503420730100396032?s=20&t=x2ek4lWyGUhV0RNMeOO3Kg

    This story could be as big as Ukraine, in its own way



    Christ...


    John Burn-Murdoch
    @jburnmurdoch
    ·
    2h
    Around 15 million over-80s in mainland China are still unvaccinated. An astonishing number
    China claims that not a single person in their country has died of Covid-19 since April 2020. The number has been stuck on 4,636 since then.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,103

    @LucyJones

    Welcome back, Lucy. I for one remember you and hope you will resume posting as avidly as you once did.

    Its interesting when reading old PB threads to notice good PBers who haven't been seen for years.

    I wonder what happened to them - so its always nice to see an old PBer return.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775

    Farooq said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    rpjs said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    FF43 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    biggles said:

    NEW DELHI, March 14 (Reuters) - India is considering taking up a Russian offer to buy its crude oil and other commodities at discounted prices with payment via a rupee-rouble transaction, two Indian officials said, amid tough Western sanctions on Russia over its invasion of Ukraine.

    India, which imports 80% of its oil needs, usually buys about 2% to 3% of its supplies from Russia. But with oil prices up 40% so far this year, the government is looking at increasing this if it can help reduce its rising energy bill.

    "Russia is offering oil and other commodities at a heavy discount. We will be happy to take that. We have some issues like tanker, insurance cover and oil blends to be resolved. Once we have that we will take the discount offer," one of the Indian government officials said.


    https://www.reuters.com/world/india/india-considers-buying-discounted-russian-oil-commodities-officials-say-2022-03-14/

    How will the oil get there? (Assuming the west buys up tanker capacity and doesn’t want it to).
    Well, there are lots of oil tankers in the world, and many of them are owned by private companies in tax havens who will happily take a premium rate to shift oil from Russia to Delhi.

    However... India's behaviour here is pretty appalling. The reality is that Russia will continue to be able to export oil (albeit gas is harder), if the Indians and Chinese say 'discount oil, lovely jubbly'.
    Tactless of India to be quite so blatant in their sanctions busting. They are supposed to be a trusted partner, blah blah...
    Terrible advert for the symbolic value of the Commonwealth.
    Or the Anglosphere. Or is it only white countries that are considered anglosphere?
    On the strictest definition, the core Anglosphere is only the UK, USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglosphere#:~:text=The Anglosphere is a group,diplomatic and military co-operation.
    And Ireland - 93% speak English as a first language (UK only 92%).
    Ireland can also be included but is not automatically in the core 5
    Anglosphere, % speaking English as a first language:

    Ireland 93.2%
    UK 92.3%
    NZ 85.9%
    USA 78.1%
    Aus 72.7%
    Can 54.4%.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_population
    How bloody big is Quebec and/or how many First Nations languages are there is only 54.4% of Canadians speak English as a first language?
    83% of Canadians speak English on that link
    You seem to have missed a critical word in my sentence. Or rather you misread it, and have amended, but that now doesn't make sense as a response to what I posted.
    Regardless as I said English language speakers is NOT the key criteria for the Anglosphere.

    The key criteria is military, political, diplomatic and cultural ties.

    Hence it only includes at its core the UK, USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand
    "Anglo" refers to the English language. Besides There are plenty of military, political, diplomatic and cultural ties between the UK and Ireland, particularly the last three. On the military front, you will know plenty of Irishmen fought in the UK forces in BOTH World Wars.
    Anglophone countries refers primarily to those which mainly speak English.

    Anglosphere countries are primarily those united by military, diplomatic, cultural and political ties.

    Ireland fought with us in WW1 but was neutral in WW2 and the Cold War unlike the USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand. The Republic of Ireland is also not in NATO
    Ireland (as a country, obv) didn't exist in WW1.
    Indeed, the only reason it fought with us is it was still in the UK.

    The Irish Free State was neutral in WW2 and the Republic of Ireland was neutral in the Cold War.

    The Republic of Ireland is also not in NATO or the Commonwealth.

    Hence it is not a core Anglosphere nation
    More Irish men served in the British armed forces during the Second World War than served in the Irish armed forces.

    ETA and by “Irish men” I mean from the 26 counties.
    You could legitimately also add the number of UK people who were released to join the UK forces because so many Irish people came over to work on such things as airfield construction.
    So what, millions of Indians also fought in WW2, many came over and have contributed to our core services since.

    However India is also not in the core Anglosphere either as like Ireland it was neutral in the Cold War and is not in NATO
    Doesn't change the basic point.

    That reminds me: I've never been able to extract an answer from you as to whether it was right for UKG to give India (as it was then) independence.

    Blaming it on Labour Governments does not count.
    Oh it does.

    The Republic of Ireland is not in NATO, is not in the Commonwealth, does not share our head of state, was neutral in the Cold War and was officially neutral in WW2.

    On no grounds whatsoever is the Republic of Ireland a core member of the Anglosphere. It is outer tier at most.

    As I said Churchill opposed Indian independence as did most Tories at the time, it was Attlee and Labour who gave then independence. However I am not answering irrelevant hypotheticals as I am a Tory for now and India is independent in the reality of today
    You're the one who insists relentlessly that what suited Henry VIII is absolutely the right way to run the UK today. And claims that the C of E is apolitical. When anyoine who knows any history knows that the very notion of an Established Church was always one of the most explosive political issues in any of the four nations of the so-called United Kingdom.
    Nope, the Church of England was created as the established church precisely to ensure the effective established church was not Roman Catholic Popery
    And, pray, why did Henry VIII not want Popery? YOu have a history degree ...
    Because he preferred fresh flowers, none of that dried stuff.
    More to the point, he preferred fresh ovaries.
    Hmm, I'm a bit worried now that my post came across as sexist and ageist, instead of it just being a pun on the word "popery". I wasn't comparing women to flowers. Popery. Potpourri. Nothing unkind meant about older women.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,898
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Important

    "In recent days China has locked down tens of millions in several cities, as it braces for a much worse wave than Jan 2020 where the bulk of infection was confined to Hubei province."

    The Chinese are expecting the Omicron wave to be MUCH WORSE than Wuhan/Hubei

    https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1503420730100396032?s=20&t=x2ek4lWyGUhV0RNMeOO3Kg

    This story could be as big as Ukraine, in its own way



    Christ...


    John Burn-Murdoch
    @jburnmurdoch
    ·
    2h
    Around 15 million over-80s in mainland China are still unvaccinated. An astonishing number
    China claims that not a single person in their country has died of Covid-19 since April 2020. The number has been stuck on 4,636 since then.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
    Very plausible. The glories of the (not) Communist Party and Emperor Xi at work.

    Do they actually claim no deaths, or did they just stop reporting figures?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,898
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    rpjs said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    FF43 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    biggles said:

    NEW DELHI, March 14 (Reuters) - India is considering taking up a Russian offer to buy its crude oil and other commodities at discounted prices with payment via a rupee-rouble transaction, two Indian officials said, amid tough Western sanctions on Russia over its invasion of Ukraine.

    India, which imports 80% of its oil needs, usually buys about 2% to 3% of its supplies from Russia. But with oil prices up 40% so far this year, the government is looking at increasing this if it can help reduce its rising energy bill.

    "Russia is offering oil and other commodities at a heavy discount. We will be happy to take that. We have some issues like tanker, insurance cover and oil blends to be resolved. Once we have that we will take the discount offer," one of the Indian government officials said.


    https://www.reuters.com/world/india/india-considers-buying-discounted-russian-oil-commodities-officials-say-2022-03-14/

    How will the oil get there? (Assuming the west buys up tanker capacity and doesn’t want it to).
    Well, there are lots of oil tankers in the world, and many of them are owned by private companies in tax havens who will happily take a premium rate to shift oil from Russia to Delhi.

    However... India's behaviour here is pretty appalling. The reality is that Russia will continue to be able to export oil (albeit gas is harder), if the Indians and Chinese say 'discount oil, lovely jubbly'.
    Tactless of India to be quite so blatant in their sanctions busting. They are supposed to be a trusted partner, blah blah...
    Terrible advert for the symbolic value of the Commonwealth.
    Or the Anglosphere. Or is it only white countries that are considered anglosphere?
    On the strictest definition, the core Anglosphere is only the UK, USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglosphere#:~:text=The Anglosphere is a group,diplomatic and military co-operation.
    And Ireland - 93% speak English as a first language (UK only 92%).
    Ireland can also be included but is not automatically in the core 5
    Anglosphere, % speaking English as a first language:

    Ireland 93.2%
    UK 92.3%
    NZ 85.9%
    USA 78.1%
    Aus 72.7%
    Can 54.4%.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_population
    How bloody big is Quebec and/or how many First Nations languages are there is only 54.4% of Canadians speak English as a first language?
    83% of Canadians speak English on that link
    You seem to have missed a critical word in my sentence. Or rather you misread it, and have amended, but that now doesn't make sense as a response to what I posted.
    Regardless as I said English language speakers is NOT the key criteria for the Anglosphere.

    The key criteria is military, political, diplomatic and cultural ties.

    Hence it only includes at its core the UK, USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand
    "Anglo" refers to the English language. Besides There are plenty of military, political, diplomatic and cultural ties between the UK and Ireland, particularly the last three. On the military front, you will know plenty of Irishmen fought in the UK forces in BOTH World Wars.
    Anglophone countries refers primarily to those which mainly speak English.

    Anglosphere countries are primarily those united by military, diplomatic, cultural and political ties.

    Ireland fought with us in WW1 but was neutral in WW2 and the Cold War unlike the USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand. The Republic of Ireland is also not in NATO
    Ireland (as a country, obv) didn't exist in WW1.
    Indeed, the only reason it fought with us is it was still in the UK.

    The Irish Free State was neutral in WW2 and the Republic of Ireland was neutral in the Cold War.

    The Republic of Ireland is also not in NATO or the Commonwealth.

    Hence it is not a core Anglosphere nation
    More Irish men served in the British armed forces during the Second World War than served in the Irish armed forces.

    ETA and by “Irish men” I mean from the 26 counties.
    You could legitimately also add the number of UK people who were released to join the UK forces because so many Irish people came over to work on such things as airfield construction.
    So what, millions of Indians also fought in WW2, many came over and have contributed to our core services since.

    However India is also not in the core Anglosphere either as like Ireland it was neutral in the Cold War and is not in NATO
    Doesn't change the basic point.

    That reminds me: I've never been able to extract an answer from you as to whether it was right for UKG to give India (as it was then) independence.

    Blaming it on Labour Governments does not count.
    Oh it does.

    The Republic of Ireland is not in NATO, is not in the Commonwealth, does not share our head of state, was neutral in the Cold War and was officially neutral in WW2.

    On no grounds whatsoever is the Republic of Ireland a core member of the Anglosphere. It is outer tier at most.

    As I said Churchill opposed Indian independence as did most Tories at the time, it was Attlee and Labour who gave then independence. However I am not answering irrelevant hypotheticals as I am a Tory for now and India is independent in the reality of today
    You're the one who insists relentlessly that what suited Henry VIII is absolutely the right way to run the UK today. And claims that the C of E is apolitical. When anyoine who knows any history knows that the very notion of an Established Church was always one of the most explosive political issues in any of the four nations of the so-called United Kingdom.
    Nope, the Church of England was created as the established church precisely to ensure the effective established church was not Roman Catholic Popery
    And, pray, why did Henry VIII not want Popery? YOu have a history degree ...
    Because he preferred fresh flowers, none of that dried stuff.
    More to the point, he preferred fresh ovaries.
    Hmm, I'm a bit worried now that my post came across as sexist and ageist, instead of it just being a pun on the word "popery". I wasn't comparing women to flowers. Popery. Potpourri. Nothing unkind meant about older women.
    I'm embarrassed I didn't spot the potpourri gag. When one fails like that it means the other absorbs their PB power, like Highlander. Use it well.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,732
    Farooq said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Could Boris conceivably call a quasi-Khaki Election in 2022?

    As with Salisbury's Conservative-Liberal Unionist alliance that won the original Khaki Election in 1900, Boris's Conservative & Unionist Party will almost certain need to time any such electoral gambit this year, to occur BEFORE the end of the War (Boer then, Ukrainian today).

    Personally think proper atmosphere AND timing are less propitious and likely harder for Tories this millennium than last. But who knows?

    Not unless the Tories get a big poll lead no
    If Putin were to fall as a result of the Ukraine invasion on Johnson's watch, Johnson would be insane not to go for a quick win.
    Not unless he had over a 12% poll lead, otherwise he still loses seats and as 2017 showed voters dislike snap elections
    But if an early election looks like a small majority and another five years he would take that.
    Why? Just putting myself in his position - I’d want to get at least a year or two without Covid or thermonuclear war to do something with my 80 seat majority. A year or two as elected dictator is better than five as Theresa May.
    He retains his reputation as a winner and gives himself a guaranteed extra 3 and a half years for Carrie and Johnson to enjoy the wallpaper.
    He has his flock to look after.
    He might get a pasting.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,502
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    rpjs said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    FF43 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    biggles said:

    NEW DELHI, March 14 (Reuters) - India is considering taking up a Russian offer to buy its crude oil and other commodities at discounted prices with payment via a rupee-rouble transaction, two Indian officials said, amid tough Western sanctions on Russia over its invasion of Ukraine.

    India, which imports 80% of its oil needs, usually buys about 2% to 3% of its supplies from Russia. But with oil prices up 40% so far this year, the government is looking at increasing this if it can help reduce its rising energy bill.

    "Russia is offering oil and other commodities at a heavy discount. We will be happy to take that. We have some issues like tanker, insurance cover and oil blends to be resolved. Once we have that we will take the discount offer," one of the Indian government officials said.


    https://www.reuters.com/world/india/india-considers-buying-discounted-russian-oil-commodities-officials-say-2022-03-14/

    How will the oil get there? (Assuming the west buys up tanker capacity and doesn’t want it to).
    Well, there are lots of oil tankers in the world, and many of them are owned by private companies in tax havens who will happily take a premium rate to shift oil from Russia to Delhi.

    However... India's behaviour here is pretty appalling. The reality is that Russia will continue to be able to export oil (albeit gas is harder), if the Indians and Chinese say 'discount oil, lovely jubbly'.
    Tactless of India to be quite so blatant in their sanctions busting. They are supposed to be a trusted partner, blah blah...
    Terrible advert for the symbolic value of the Commonwealth.
    Or the Anglosphere. Or is it only white countries that are considered anglosphere?
    On the strictest definition, the core Anglosphere is only the UK, USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglosphere#:~:text=The Anglosphere is a group,diplomatic and military co-operation.
    And Ireland - 93% speak English as a first language (UK only 92%).
    Ireland can also be included but is not automatically in the core 5
    Anglosphere, % speaking English as a first language:

    Ireland 93.2%
    UK 92.3%
    NZ 85.9%
    USA 78.1%
    Aus 72.7%
    Can 54.4%.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_population
    How bloody big is Quebec and/or how many First Nations languages are there is only 54.4% of Canadians speak English as a first language?
    83% of Canadians speak English on that link
    You seem to have missed a critical word in my sentence. Or rather you misread it, and have amended, but that now doesn't make sense as a response to what I posted.
    Regardless as I said English language speakers is NOT the key criteria for the Anglosphere.

    The key criteria is military, political, diplomatic and cultural ties.

    Hence it only includes at its core the UK, USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand
    "Anglo" refers to the English language. Besides There are plenty of military, political, diplomatic and cultural ties between the UK and Ireland, particularly the last three. On the military front, you will know plenty of Irishmen fought in the UK forces in BOTH World Wars.
    Anglophone countries refers primarily to those which mainly speak English.

    Anglosphere countries are primarily those united by military, diplomatic, cultural and political ties.

    Ireland fought with us in WW1 but was neutral in WW2 and the Cold War unlike the USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand. The Republic of Ireland is also not in NATO
    Ireland (as a country, obv) didn't exist in WW1.
    Indeed, the only reason it fought with us is it was still in the UK.

    The Irish Free State was neutral in WW2 and the Republic of Ireland was neutral in the Cold War.

    The Republic of Ireland is also not in NATO or the Commonwealth.

    Hence it is not a core Anglosphere nation
    More Irish men served in the British armed forces during the Second World War than served in the Irish armed forces.

    ETA and by “Irish men” I mean from the 26 counties.
    You could legitimately also add the number of UK people who were released to join the UK forces because so many Irish people came over to work on such things as airfield construction.
    So what, millions of Indians also fought in WW2, many came over and have contributed to our core services since.

    However India is also not in the core Anglosphere either as like Ireland it was neutral in the Cold War and is not in NATO
    Doesn't change the basic point.

    That reminds me: I've never been able to extract an answer from you as to whether it was right for UKG to give India (as it was then) independence.

    Blaming it on Labour Governments does not count.
    Oh it does.

    The Republic of Ireland is not in NATO, is not in the Commonwealth, does not share our head of state, was neutral in the Cold War and was officially neutral in WW2.

    On no grounds whatsoever is the Republic of Ireland a core member of the Anglosphere. It is outer tier at most.

    As I said Churchill opposed Indian independence as did most Tories at the time, it was Attlee and Labour who gave then independence. However I am not answering irrelevant hypotheticals as I am a Tory for now and India is independent in the reality of today
    You're the one who insists relentlessly that what suited Henry VIII is absolutely the right way to run the UK today. And claims that the C of E is apolitical. When anyoine who knows any history knows that the very notion of an Established Church was always one of the most explosive political issues in any of the four nations of the so-called United Kingdom.
    Nope, the Church of England was created as the established church precisely to ensure the effective established church was not Roman Catholic Popery
    And, pray, why did Henry VIII not want Popery? YOu have a history degree ...
    Because he preferred fresh flowers, none of that dried stuff.
    More to the point, he preferred fresh ovaries.
    Hmm, I'm a bit worried now that my post came across as sexist and ageist, instead of it just being a pun on the word "popery". I wasn't comparing women to flowers. Popery. Potpourri. Nothing unkind meant about older women.
    Too late, consider yourself cancelled.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    rpjs said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    FF43 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    biggles said:

    NEW DELHI, March 14 (Reuters) - India is considering taking up a Russian offer to buy its crude oil and other commodities at discounted prices with payment via a rupee-rouble transaction, two Indian officials said, amid tough Western sanctions on Russia over its invasion of Ukraine.

    India, which imports 80% of its oil needs, usually buys about 2% to 3% of its supplies from Russia. But with oil prices up 40% so far this year, the government is looking at increasing this if it can help reduce its rising energy bill.

    "Russia is offering oil and other commodities at a heavy discount. We will be happy to take that. We have some issues like tanker, insurance cover and oil blends to be resolved. Once we have that we will take the discount offer," one of the Indian government officials said.


    https://www.reuters.com/world/india/india-considers-buying-discounted-russian-oil-commodities-officials-say-2022-03-14/

    How will the oil get there? (Assuming the west buys up tanker capacity and doesn’t want it to).
    Well, there are lots of oil tankers in the world, and many of them are owned by private companies in tax havens who will happily take a premium rate to shift oil from Russia to Delhi.

    However... India's behaviour here is pretty appalling. The reality is that Russia will continue to be able to export oil (albeit gas is harder), if the Indians and Chinese say 'discount oil, lovely jubbly'.
    Tactless of India to be quite so blatant in their sanctions busting. They are supposed to be a trusted partner, blah blah...
    Terrible advert for the symbolic value of the Commonwealth.
    Or the Anglosphere. Or is it only white countries that are considered anglosphere?
    On the strictest definition, the core Anglosphere is only the UK, USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglosphere#:~:text=The Anglosphere is a group,diplomatic and military co-operation.
    And Ireland - 93% speak English as a first language (UK only 92%).
    Ireland can also be included but is not automatically in the core 5
    Anglosphere, % speaking English as a first language:

    Ireland 93.2%
    UK 92.3%
    NZ 85.9%
    USA 78.1%
    Aus 72.7%
    Can 54.4%.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_population
    How bloody big is Quebec and/or how many First Nations languages are there is only 54.4% of Canadians speak English as a first language?
    83% of Canadians speak English on that link
    You seem to have missed a critical word in my sentence. Or rather you misread it, and have amended, but that now doesn't make sense as a response to what I posted.
    Regardless as I said English language speakers is NOT the key criteria for the Anglosphere.

    The key criteria is military, political, diplomatic and cultural ties.

    Hence it only includes at its core the UK, USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand
    "Anglo" refers to the English language. Besides There are plenty of military, political, diplomatic and cultural ties between the UK and Ireland, particularly the last three. On the military front, you will know plenty of Irishmen fought in the UK forces in BOTH World Wars.
    Anglophone countries refers primarily to those which mainly speak English.

    Anglosphere countries are primarily those united by military, diplomatic, cultural and political ties.

    Ireland fought with us in WW1 but was neutral in WW2 and the Cold War unlike the USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand. The Republic of Ireland is also not in NATO
    Ireland (as a country, obv) didn't exist in WW1.
    Indeed, the only reason it fought with us is it was still in the UK.

    The Irish Free State was neutral in WW2 and the Republic of Ireland was neutral in the Cold War.

    The Republic of Ireland is also not in NATO or the Commonwealth.

    Hence it is not a core Anglosphere nation
    More Irish men served in the British armed forces during the Second World War than served in the Irish armed forces.

    ETA and by “Irish men” I mean from the 26 counties.
    You could legitimately also add the number of UK people who were released to join the UK forces because so many Irish people came over to work on such things as airfield construction.
    So what, millions of Indians also fought in WW2, many came over and have contributed to our core services since.

    However India is also not in the core Anglosphere either as like Ireland it was neutral in the Cold War and is not in NATO
    Doesn't change the basic point.

    That reminds me: I've never been able to extract an answer from you as to whether it was right for UKG to give India (as it was then) independence.

    Blaming it on Labour Governments does not count.
    Oh it does.

    The Republic of Ireland is not in NATO, is not in the Commonwealth, does not share our head of state, was neutral in the Cold War and was officially neutral in WW2.

    On no grounds whatsoever is the Republic of Ireland a core member of the Anglosphere. It is outer tier at most.

    As I said Churchill opposed Indian independence as did most Tories at the time, it was Attlee and Labour who gave then independence. However I am not answering irrelevant hypotheticals as I am a Tory for now and India is independent in the reality of today
    You're the one who insists relentlessly that what suited Henry VIII is absolutely the right way to run the UK today. And claims that the C of E is apolitical. When anyoine who knows any history knows that the very notion of an Established Church was always one of the most explosive political issues in any of the four nations of the so-called United Kingdom.
    Nope, the Church of England was created as the established church precisely to ensure the effective established church was not Roman Catholic Popery
    And, pray, why did Henry VIII not want Popery? YOu have a history degree ...
    Because he preferred fresh flowers, none of that dried stuff.
    More to the point, he preferred fresh ovaries.
    Hmm, I'm a bit worried now that my post came across as sexist and ageist, instead of it just being a pun on the word "popery". I wasn't comparing women to flowers. Popery. Potpourri. Nothing unkind meant about older women.
    Too late, consider yourself cancelled.
    Ok, see you in a week :disappointed:
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,232
    Farooq said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:


    Oh it does.

    The Republic of Ireland is not in NATO, is not in the Commonwealth, does not share our head of state, was neutral in the Cold War and was officially neutral in WW2.

    On no grounds whatsoever is the Republic of Ireland a core member of the Anglosphere. It is outer tier at most.

    As I said Churchill opposed Indian independence as did most Tories at the time, it was Attlee and Labour who gave then independence. However I am not answering irrelevant hypotheticals as I am a Tory for now and India is independent in the reality of today

    The Cranborne Report
    Viscount Cranborne, the British Secretary of State for Dominion Affairs, wrote a letter on 21 February 1945 to the British War Cabinet regarding Irish-British collaboration during 1939–1945:

    # They [the Irish] agreed to our use of Lough Foyle for naval and air purposes. The ownership of the Lough is disputed, but the Southern Irish authorities are tacitly not pressing their claim in present conditions and are also ignoring any flying by our aircraft over the Donegal shore of the Lough, which is necessary in certain wind conditions to enable flying boats to take off from the Lough.

    1. They have agreed to use by our aircraft based on Lough Erne of a corridor over Southern Irish territory and territorial waters for the purpose of flying out to the Atlantic.
    2. They have arranged for the immediate transmission to the United Kingdom Representative's Office in Dublin of reports of submarine activity received from their coast watching service.
    3. They arranged for the broadening of reports by their Air observation Corps of aircraft sighted over or approaching Southern Irish territory. (This does not include our aircraft using the corridor referred to in (b) above.)
    4. They arranged for the extinction of trade and business lighting in coastal towns where such lighting was alleged to afford a useful landmark for German aircraft.
    5. They have continued to supply us with meteorological reports.
    6. They have agreed to the use by our ships and aircraft of two wireless direction-finding stations at Malin Head.
    7. They have supplied particulars of German crashed aircraft and personnel crashed or washed ashore or arrested on land.
    8. They arranged for staff talks on the question of co-operation against a possible German invasion of Southern Ireland, and close contact has since been maintained between the respective military authorities.
    9. They continue to intern all German fighting personnel reaching Southern Ireland. On the other hand, though after protracted negotiations, Allied service personnel are now allowed to depart freely and full assistance is given in recovering damaged aircraft.
    10. Recently, in connection with the establishment of prisoner of war camps in Northern Ireland, they have agreed to return or at least intern any German prisoners who may escape from Northern Ireland across the border to Southern Ireland.
    11. They have throughout offered no objection to the departure from Southern Ireland of persons wishing to serve in the United Kingdom Forces nor to the journey on leave of such persons to and from Southern Ireland (in plain clothes).
    12. They have continued to exchange information with our security authorities regarding all aliens (including Germans) in Southern Ireland.
    13. They have (within the last few days) agreed to our establishing a radar station in Southern Ireland for use against the latest form of submarine activity.
    They were also still officially neutral unlike all the core Anglosphere nations. De Valera also still signed the book of condolence for Hitler
    Mate, you've expressed your admiration for Franco, more than once.
    TBF, a lot of the Irish were also rather keen on Franco. So HYUFD has far more in common with them than ...
    English blood, Irish heart!
    HYUFD the PB Morrisey, makes perfect sense!
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,232
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:


    Oh it does.

    The Republic of Ireland is not in NATO, is not in the Commonwealth, does not share our head of state, was neutral in the Cold War and was officially neutral in WW2.

    On no grounds whatsoever is the Republic of Ireland a core member of the Anglosphere. It is outer tier at most.

    As I said Churchill opposed Indian independence as did most Tories at the time, it was Attlee and Labour who gave then independence. However I am not answering irrelevant hypotheticals as I am a Tory for now and India is independent in the reality of today

    The Cranborne Report
    Viscount Cranborne, the British Secretary of State for Dominion Affairs, wrote a letter on 21 February 1945 to the British War Cabinet regarding Irish-British collaboration during 1939–1945:

    # They [the Irish] agreed to our use of Lough Foyle for naval and air purposes. The ownership of the Lough is disputed, but the Southern Irish authorities are tacitly not pressing their claim in present conditions and are also ignoring any flying by our aircraft over the Donegal shore of the Lough, which is necessary in certain wind conditions to enable flying boats to take off from the Lough.

    1. They have agreed to use by our aircraft based on Lough Erne of a corridor over Southern Irish territory and territorial waters for the purpose of flying out to the Atlantic.
    2. They have arranged for the immediate transmission to the United Kingdom Representative's Office in Dublin of reports of submarine activity received from their coast watching service.
    3. They arranged for the broadening of reports by their Air observation Corps of aircraft sighted over or approaching Southern Irish territory. (This does not include our aircraft using the corridor referred to in (b) above.)
    4. They arranged for the extinction of trade and business lighting in coastal towns where such lighting was alleged to afford a useful landmark for German aircraft.
    5. They have continued to supply us with meteorological reports.
    6. They have agreed to the use by our ships and aircraft of two wireless direction-finding stations at Malin Head.
    7. They have supplied particulars of German crashed aircraft and personnel crashed or washed ashore or arrested on land.
    8. They arranged for staff talks on the question of co-operation against a possible German invasion of Southern Ireland, and close contact has since been maintained between the respective military authorities.
    9. They continue to intern all German fighting personnel reaching Southern Ireland. On the other hand, though after protracted negotiations, Allied service personnel are now allowed to depart freely and full assistance is given in recovering damaged aircraft.
    10. Recently, in connection with the establishment of prisoner of war camps in Northern Ireland, they have agreed to return or at least intern any German prisoners who may escape from Northern Ireland across the border to Southern Ireland.
    11. They have throughout offered no objection to the departure from Southern Ireland of persons wishing to serve in the United Kingdom Forces nor to the journey on leave of such persons to and from Southern Ireland (in plain clothes).
    12. They have continued to exchange information with our security authorities regarding all aliens (including Germans) in Southern Ireland.
    13. They have (within the last few days) agreed to our establishing a radar station in Southern Ireland for use against the latest form of submarine activity.
    They were also still officially neutral unlike all the core Anglosphere nations. De Valera also still signed the book of condolence for Hitler
    Mate, you've expressed your admiration for Franco, more than once.
    I have also however never said Spain was in the Anglosphere
    Philip II was briefly "King" of England.
    So what, we also fought more wars with Spain than any other foreign nation after France.

    Spain was neutral in WW2 and much of the Cold War and they are hardly close allies over Gibraltar either
    Just checking, does Scotland count as a foreign nation in this context?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,097

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:


    Oh it does.

    The Republic of Ireland is not in NATO, is not in the Commonwealth, does not share our head of state, was neutral in the Cold War and was officially neutral in WW2.

    On no grounds whatsoever is the Republic of Ireland a core member of the Anglosphere. It is outer tier at most.

    As I said Churchill opposed Indian independence as did most Tories at the time, it was Attlee and Labour who gave then independence. However I am not answering irrelevant hypotheticals as I am a Tory for now and India is independent in the reality of today

    The Cranborne Report
    Viscount Cranborne, the British Secretary of State for Dominion Affairs, wrote a letter on 21 February 1945 to the British War Cabinet regarding Irish-British collaboration during 1939–1945:

    # They [the Irish] agreed to our use of Lough Foyle for naval and air purposes. The ownership of the Lough is disputed, but the Southern Irish authorities are tacitly not pressing their claim in present conditions and are also ignoring any flying by our aircraft over the Donegal shore of the Lough, which is necessary in certain wind conditions to enable flying boats to take off from the Lough.

    1. They have agreed to use by our aircraft based on Lough Erne of a corridor over Southern Irish territory and territorial waters for the purpose of flying out to the Atlantic.
    2. They have arranged for the immediate transmission to the United Kingdom Representative's Office in Dublin of reports of submarine activity received from their coast watching service.
    3. They arranged for the broadening of reports by their Air observation Corps of aircraft sighted over or approaching Southern Irish territory. (This does not include our aircraft using the corridor referred to in (b) above.)
    4. They arranged for the extinction of trade and business lighting in coastal towns where such lighting was alleged to afford a useful landmark for German aircraft.
    5. They have continued to supply us with meteorological reports.
    6. They have agreed to the use by our ships and aircraft of two wireless direction-finding stations at Malin Head.
    7. They have supplied particulars of German crashed aircraft and personnel crashed or washed ashore or arrested on land.
    8. They arranged for staff talks on the question of co-operation against a possible German invasion of Southern Ireland, and close contact has since been maintained between the respective military authorities.
    9. They continue to intern all German fighting personnel reaching Southern Ireland. On the other hand, though after protracted negotiations, Allied service personnel are now allowed to depart freely and full assistance is given in recovering damaged aircraft.
    10. Recently, in connection with the establishment of prisoner of war camps in Northern Ireland, they have agreed to return or at least intern any German prisoners who may escape from Northern Ireland across the border to Southern Ireland.
    11. They have throughout offered no objection to the departure from Southern Ireland of persons wishing to serve in the United Kingdom Forces nor to the journey on leave of such persons to and from Southern Ireland (in plain clothes).
    12. They have continued to exchange information with our security authorities regarding all aliens (including Germans) in Southern Ireland.
    13. They have (within the last few days) agreed to our establishing a radar station in Southern Ireland for use against the latest form of submarine activity.
    They were also still officially neutral unlike all the core Anglosphere nations. De Valera also still signed the book of condolence for Hitler
    Mate, you've expressed your admiration for Franco, more than once.
    I have also however never said Spain was in the Anglosphere
    Philip II was briefly "King" of England.
    So what, we also fought more wars with Spain than any other foreign nation after France.

    Spain was neutral in WW2 and much of the Cold War and they are hardly close allies over Gibraltar either
    Just checking, does Scotland count as a foreign nation in this context?
    Scotland comes ahead of Spain when you consider the time before the 1707 Act of Union yes and the wars England rather than the UK fought
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,502
    Foxy said:

    Farooq said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Could Boris conceivably call a quasi-Khaki Election in 2022?

    As with Salisbury's Conservative-Liberal Unionist alliance that won the original Khaki Election in 1900, Boris's Conservative & Unionist Party will almost certain need to time any such electoral gambit this year, to occur BEFORE the end of the War (Boer then, Ukrainian today).

    Personally think proper atmosphere AND timing are less propitious and likely harder for Tories this millennium than last. But who knows?

    Not unless the Tories get a big poll lead no
    If Putin were to fall as a result of the Ukraine invasion on Johnson's watch, Johnson would be insane not to go for a quick win.
    Not unless he had over a 12% poll lead, otherwise he still loses seats and as 2017 showed voters dislike snap elections
    But if an early election looks like a small majority and another five years he would take that.
    Why? Just putting myself in his position - I’d want to get at least a year or two without Covid or thermonuclear war to do something with my 80 seat majority. A year or two as elected dictator is better than five as Theresa May.
    He retains his reputation as a winner and gives himself a guaranteed extra 3 and a half years for Carrie and Johnson to enjoy the wallpaper.
    He has his flock to look after.
    He might get a pasting.
    Carrie might instigate a de facto regency, stripe-ing Boris of all genuine power.
  • Options
    kle4 said:

    @crampell
    Putin Signs Law to Seize Foreign Aircraft, Redeploy for Domestic Use


    https://twitter.com/crampell/status/1503458523874828289

    I can't shake the feeling that he is loving this somehow. Russia against the world, in need of a firm leader who can just sign whatever he feels like law.
    Not much use when he cannot get parts
  • Options
    So Putin supporters are Scousers..

    Tomasz Oryński
    @TOrynski
    If I read it correctly (i am not really any good in reading Russian) the sign on his jacket says "I support Putin".

    Great photo.


    https://twitter.com/TOrynski/status/1503477508091621384
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,194

    So Putin supporters are Scousers..

    Tomasz Oryński
    @TOrynski
    If I read it correctly (i am not really any good in reading Russian) the sign on his jacket says "I support Putin".

    Great photo.


    https://twitter.com/TOrynski/status/1503477508091621384

    You look in the dustbin for something to eat?
  • Options
    bigglesbiggles Posts: 4,347
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:


    Oh it does.

    The Republic of Ireland is not in NATO, is not in the Commonwealth, does not share our head of state, was neutral in the Cold War and was officially neutral in WW2.

    On no grounds whatsoever is the Republic of Ireland a core member of the Anglosphere. It is outer tier at most.

    As I said Churchill opposed Indian independence as did most Tories at the time, it was Attlee and Labour who gave then independence. However I am not answering irrelevant hypotheticals as I am a Tory for now and India is independent in the reality of today

    The Cranborne Report
    Viscount Cranborne, the British Secretary of State for Dominion Affairs, wrote a letter on 21 February 1945 to the British War Cabinet regarding Irish-British collaboration during 1939–1945:

    # They [the Irish] agreed to our use of Lough Foyle for naval and air purposes. The ownership of the Lough is disputed, but the Southern Irish authorities are tacitly not pressing their claim in present conditions and are also ignoring any flying by our aircraft over the Donegal shore of the Lough, which is necessary in certain wind conditions to enable flying boats to take off from the Lough.

    1. They have agreed to use by our aircraft based on Lough Erne of a corridor over Southern Irish territory and territorial waters for the purpose of flying out to the Atlantic.
    2. They have arranged for the immediate transmission to the United Kingdom Representative's Office in Dublin of reports of submarine activity received from their coast watching service.
    3. They arranged for the broadening of reports by their Air observation Corps of aircraft sighted over or approaching Southern Irish territory. (This does not include our aircraft using the corridor referred to in (b) above.)
    4. They arranged for the extinction of trade and business lighting in coastal towns where such lighting was alleged to afford a useful landmark for German aircraft.
    5. They have continued to supply us with meteorological reports.
    6. They have agreed to the use by our ships and aircraft of two wireless direction-finding stations at Malin Head.
    7. They have supplied particulars of German crashed aircraft and personnel crashed or washed ashore or arrested on land.
    8. They arranged for staff talks on the question of co-operation against a possible German invasion of Southern Ireland, and close contact has since been maintained between the respective military authorities.
    9. They continue to intern all German fighting personnel reaching Southern Ireland. On the other hand, though after protracted negotiations, Allied service personnel are now allowed to depart freely and full assistance is given in recovering damaged aircraft.
    10. Recently, in connection with the establishment of prisoner of war camps in Northern Ireland, they have agreed to return or at least intern any German prisoners who may escape from Northern Ireland across the border to Southern Ireland.
    11. They have throughout offered no objection to the departure from Southern Ireland of persons wishing to serve in the United Kingdom Forces nor to the journey on leave of such persons to and from Southern Ireland (in plain clothes).
    12. They have continued to exchange information with our security authorities regarding all aliens (including Germans) in Southern Ireland.
    13. They have (within the last few days) agreed to our establishing a radar station in Southern Ireland for use against the latest form of submarine activity.
    They were also still officially neutral unlike all the core Anglosphere nations. De Valera also still signed the book of condolence for Hitler
    Mate, you've expressed your admiration for Franco, more than once.
    I have also however never said Spain was in the Anglosphere
    Philip II was briefly "King" of England.
    So what, we also fought more wars with Spain than any other foreign nation after France.

    Spain was neutral in WW2 and much of the Cold War and they are hardly close allies over Gibraltar either
    Just checking, does Scotland count as a foreign nation in this context?
    Scotland comes ahead of Spain when you consider the time before the 1707 Act of Union yes and the wars England rather than the UK fought
    If we’re doing top trumps, is pure length of war enough, or do you need to consider intensity? Perhaps it needs a graph? I mean the 100 years war was a bit on and off, and light touch so we should weight it.
  • Options
    JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,016
    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'm surprisingly confident that if Russia and China team up against the West they'll both end up losing, and the West will come out of it stronger than before.

    Unless there is a nuclear holocaust in which case nobody will be stronger than before by my understanding of the term
    South Africa?
    This, ladies and gentlemen, is an excellent example of HYUFD's thought:
    That the destruction of Western and Eastern countries "strengthens" those not directly destroyed because they would power on up the ranks. Never mind the fact that the biosphere would be a fucking state and the world economy would head backwards a number of centuries. Rank is what matters in HYUFD's Trumpist view, and a negative sum game makes sense if only the others get hurt much more than you do.

    HYUFD would cut his leg off if he knew everybody else would lose both legs.
    Well the South African President has taken a neutral stance between Russia and NATO not wholly without self interest.

    I would prefer him to be in the NATO camp but that is the reality
    Albania, former Stalinist/Maoist/Hoxhaist dictatorship is, much to my surprise, a NATO member.
  • Options
    JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,016

    So Putin supporters are Scousers..

    Tomasz Oryński
    @TOrynski
    If I read it correctly (i am not really any good in reading Russian) the sign on his jacket says "I support Putin".

    Great photo.


    https://twitter.com/TOrynski/status/1503477508091621384

    Yes, "I'm for Putin".
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,278
    Great. Just great.



    Allie Hodgkins-Brown
    @AllieHBNews
    ·
    17m
    Tuesday’s FINANCIAL TIMES: “China signalled willingness to provide Russia with military support, says US” #TomorrowsPapersToday
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    JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,016

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    rpjs said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    FF43 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    biggles said:

    NEW DELHI, March 14 (Reuters) - India is considering taking up a Russian offer to buy its crude oil and other commodities at discounted prices with payment via a rupee-rouble transaction, two Indian officials said, amid tough Western sanctions on Russia over its invasion of Ukraine.

    India, which imports 80% of its oil needs, usually buys about 2% to 3% of its supplies from Russia. But with oil prices up 40% so far this year, the government is looking at increasing this if it can help reduce its rising energy bill.

    "Russia is offering oil and other commodities at a heavy discount. We will be happy to take that. We have some issues like tanker, insurance cover and oil blends to be resolved. Once we have that we will take the discount offer," one of the Indian government officials said.


    https://www.reuters.com/world/india/india-considers-buying-discounted-russian-oil-commodities-officials-say-2022-03-14/

    How will the oil get there? (Assuming the west buys up tanker capacity and doesn’t want it to).
    Well, there are lots of oil tankers in the world, and many of them are owned by private companies in tax havens who will happily take a premium rate to shift oil from Russia to Delhi.

    However... India's behaviour here is pretty appalling. The reality is that Russia will continue to be able to export oil (albeit gas is harder), if the Indians and Chinese say 'discount oil, lovely jubbly'.
    Tactless of India to be quite so blatant in their sanctions busting. They are supposed to be a trusted partner, blah blah...
    Terrible advert for the symbolic value of the Commonwealth.
    Or the Anglosphere. Or is it only white countries that are considered anglosphere?
    On the strictest definition, the core Anglosphere is only the UK, USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglosphere#:~:text=The Anglosphere is a group,diplomatic and military co-operation.
    And Ireland - 93% speak English as a first language (UK only 92%).
    Ireland can also be included but is not automatically in the core 5
    Anglosphere, % speaking English as a first language:

    Ireland 93.2%
    UK 92.3%
    NZ 85.9%
    USA 78.1%
    Aus 72.7%
    Can 54.4%.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_population
    How bloody big is Quebec and/or how many First Nations languages are there is only 54.4% of Canadians speak English as a first language?
    83% of Canadians speak English on that link
    You seem to have missed a critical word in my sentence. Or rather you misread it, and have amended, but that now doesn't make sense as a response to what I posted.
    Regardless as I said English language speakers is NOT the key criteria for the Anglosphere.

    The key criteria is military, political, diplomatic and cultural ties.

    Hence it only includes at its core the UK, USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand
    "Anglo" refers to the English language. Besides There are plenty of military, political, diplomatic and cultural ties between the UK and Ireland, particularly the last three. On the military front, you will know plenty of Irishmen fought in the UK forces in BOTH World Wars.
    Anglophone countries refers primarily to those which mainly speak English.

    Anglosphere countries are primarily those united by military, diplomatic, cultural and political ties.

    Ireland fought with us in WW1 but was neutral in WW2 and the Cold War unlike the USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand. The Republic of Ireland is also not in NATO
    Ireland (as a country, obv) didn't exist in WW1.
    Indeed, the only reason it fought with us is it was still in the UK.

    The Irish Free State was neutral in WW2 and the Republic of Ireland was neutral in the Cold War.

    The Republic of Ireland is also not in NATO or the Commonwealth.

    Hence it is not a core Anglosphere nation
    More Irish men served in the British armed forces during the Second World War than served in the Irish armed forces.

    ETA and by “Irish men” I mean from the 26 counties.
    You could legitimately also add the number of UK people who were released to join the UK forces because so many Irish people came over to work on such things as airfield construction.
    So what, millions of Indians also fought in WW2, many came over and have contributed to our core services since.

    However India is also not in the core Anglosphere either as like Ireland it was neutral in the Cold War and is not in NATO
    Doesn't change the basic point.

    That reminds me: I've never been able to extract an answer from you as to whether it was right for UKG to give India (as it was then) independence.

    Blaming it on Labour Governments does not count.
    Oh it does.

    The Republic of Ireland is not in NATO, is not in the Commonwealth, does not share our head of state, was neutral in the Cold War and was officially neutral in WW2.

    On no grounds whatsoever is the Republic of Ireland a core member of the Anglosphere. It is outer tier at most.

    As I said Churchill opposed Indian independence as did most Tories at the time, it was Attlee and Labour who gave then independence. However I am not answering irrelevant hypotheticals as I am a Tory for now and India is independent in the reality of today
    You're the one who insists relentlessly that what suited Henry VIII is absolutely the right way to run the UK today. And claims that the C of E is apolitical. When anyoine who knows any history knows that the very notion of an Established Church was always one of the most explosive political issues in any of the four nations of the so-called United Kingdom.
    Nope, the Church of England was created as the established church precisely to ensure the effective established church was not Roman Catholic Popery
    And, pray, why did Henry VIII not want Popery? YOu have a history degree ...
    Because he preferred fresh flowers, none of that dried stuff.
    More to the point, he preferred fresh ovaries.
    Hmm, I'm a bit worried now that my post came across as sexist and ageist, instead of it just being a pun on the word "popery". I wasn't comparing women to flowers. Popery. Potpourri. Nothing unkind meant about older women.
    Too late, consider yourself cancelled.
    "No pot pourri!"
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,031
    tlg86 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pretty happy about my Quordle performance today

    Daily Quordle #49
    4️⃣5️⃣
    8️⃣6️⃣
    quordle.com
    ⬜🟩🟩⬜⬜ 🟨⬜🟨⬜🟨
    ⬜🟩🟩🟨⬜ 🟨⬜🟨⬜🟨
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    ⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛ 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

    🟩⬜⬜⬜⬜ ⬜🟨⬜⬜🟩
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    Daily Quordle #49
    8️⃣7️⃣
    5️⃣4️⃣
    quordle.com
    ⬜🟩⬜⬜⬜ ⬜⬜⬜🟩🟩
    ⬜⬜🟨⬜⬜ ⬜⬜⬜⬜🟨
    ⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜ ⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
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    ⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜ 🟨🟨⬜⬜⬜
    ⬜⬜🟩🟨⬜ 🟨⬜🟨⬜⬜
    🟨⬜⬜⬜⬜ 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
    🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩 ⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛

    🟨⬜⬜⬜🟨 ⬜🟨⬜🟨⬜
    🟨🟨⬜⬜🟨 ⬜🟨⬜🟨⬜
    ⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜ 🟨⬜⬜⬜⬜
    ⬜⬜🟨⬜⬜ 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
    🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩 ⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,412
    tlg86 said:

    So Putin supporters are Scousers..

    Tomasz Oryński
    @TOrynski
    If I read it correctly (i am not really any good in reading Russian) the sign on his jacket says "I support Putin".

    Great photo.


    https://twitter.com/TOrynski/status/1503477508091621384

    You look in the dustbin for something to eat?
    You find a dead dog and you think it's a treat?
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,323
    edited March 2022
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'm surprisingly confident that if Russia and China team up against the West they'll both end up losing, and the West will come out of it stronger than before.

    China and Russia being bossom buddies wouldn't be amazing news for the UK, but still less positive would be China and America being best buddies - the rest of the world wouldn't stand a chance. Balance of powers has always been the aim of British foreign policy, and unsurprisingly we have not prospered during the period of US hegemony. To the extent that most here (and probably in the wider country) are dribblingly terrified of a world with competing powers, where we have to find our way independently.
    "We have not prospered during the period of US hegemony"

    What drugs do you take?


    Sure, America supplanted us as global superpower, but that was gonna happen at some point, we are a small island and we governed 1/3 of the world, it was pretty unsustainable, and we kept it going for a fantastically long time

    Far far better we were overtaken by the USA than by the USSR (which America defeated) or Nazi Germany (which us and the Americans and USSR defeated) or by China (which we are now trying to defeat)

    Meanwhile, under this awful "US hegemony" Britons have become richer, healthier and better educated than at any time in their history, and the UK still wields significant soft and hard power, and is one of the world's leading nations of the 2nd rank, behind the USA and China

    Quite frankly, as I look around the world this evening, I would quite like outright US hegemony - 1990s style - to return and run the world for another century or two. Sadly that period has passed
    It would be better, I think, if Europe pulled together and became able to look after our own defence, but your fundamental point is sound. I was thinking at the weekend how different the world would feel if, say, America as the technological, economically and militarily dominant power were the fascist dictatorship and, say, Russia as the weaker power were the bastion of democracy on whom we depended. Not a happy place to be.
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,969
    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'm surprisingly confident that if Russia and China team up against the West they'll both end up losing, and the West will come out of it stronger than before.

    Unless there is a nuclear holocaust in which case nobody will be stronger than before by my understanding of the term
    South Africa?
    This, ladies and gentlemen, is an excellent example of HYUFD's thought:
    That the destruction of Western and Eastern countries "strengthens" those not directly destroyed because they would power on up the ranks. Never mind the fact that the biosphere would be a fucking state and the world economy would head backwards a number of centuries. Rank is what matters in HYUFD's Trumpist view, and a negative sum game makes sense if only the others get hurt much more than you do.

    HYUFD would cut his leg off if he knew everybody else would lose both legs.
    Well the South African President has taken a neutral stance between Russia and NATO not wholly without self interest.

    I would prefer him to be in the NATO camp but that is the reality
    Given you don't think some countries already in it should have been allowed to join NATO I am surprised you would advocate for others to either join or be allied to it.
    I refer you to my earlier post.
    HYUFD would be happy for South Africa to join because he fancies our chances of beating Eswatini in a war.
    Russia's a big boy, so we shouldn't meddle. Rank rank rank. Hit the little guy, give your lunch money to the big guy. No need to mess around with principles or whatever.
    It is only NATO and the Anglosphere which help us to contain the big boys of Russia and China.

    Yes we can defend the Falklands and Gibraltar and deal with Nationalists within our own islands but we cannot contain Putin and Xi alone
    I would suggest that Japan and South Korea - neither of which are either NATO nor Anglosphere are very much holding their end up as well.
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,883
    Leon said:

    tlg86 said:

    So Putin supporters are Scousers..

    Tomasz Oryński
    @TOrynski
    If I read it correctly (i am not really any good in reading Russian) the sign on his jacket says "I support Putin".

    Great photo.


    https://twitter.com/TOrynski/status/1503477508091621384

    You look in the dustbin for something to eat?
    You find a dead dog and you think it's a treat?
    Dead rat mate
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,362

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'm surprisingly confident that if Russia and China team up against the West they'll both end up losing, and the West will come out of it stronger than before.

    Unless there is a nuclear holocaust in which case nobody will be stronger than before by my understanding of the term
    South Africa?
    This, ladies and gentlemen, is an excellent example of HYUFD's thought:
    That the destruction of Western and Eastern countries "strengthens" those not directly destroyed because they would power on up the ranks. Never mind the fact that the biosphere would be a fucking state and the world economy would head backwards a number of centuries. Rank is what matters in HYUFD's Trumpist view, and a negative sum game makes sense if only the others get hurt much more than you do.

    HYUFD would cut his leg off if he knew everybody else would lose both legs.
    Well the South African President has taken a neutral stance between Russia and NATO not wholly without self interest.

    I would prefer him to be in the NATO camp but that is the reality
    Given you don't think some countries already in it should have been allowed to join NATO I am surprised you would advocate for others to either join or be allied to it.
    I refer you to my earlier post.
    HYUFD would be happy for South Africa to join because he fancies our chances of beating Eswatini in a war.
    Russia's a big boy, so we shouldn't meddle. Rank rank rank. Hit the little guy, give your lunch money to the big guy. No need to mess around with principles or whatever.
    It is only NATO and the Anglosphere which help us to contain the big boys of Russia and China.

    Yes we can defend the Falklands and Gibraltar and deal with Nationalists within our own islands but we cannot contain Putin and Xi alone
    I would suggest that Japan and South Korea - neither of which are either NATO nor Anglosphere are very much holding their end up as well.
    Japan drive on the left :lol:
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,362

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'm surprisingly confident that if Russia and China team up against the West they'll both end up losing, and the West will come out of it stronger than before.

    Unless there is a nuclear holocaust in which case nobody will be stronger than before by my understanding of the term
    South Africa?
    This, ladies and gentlemen, is an excellent example of HYUFD's thought:
    That the destruction of Western and Eastern countries "strengthens" those not directly destroyed because they would power on up the ranks. Never mind the fact that the biosphere would be a fucking state and the world economy would head backwards a number of centuries. Rank is what matters in HYUFD's Trumpist view, and a negative sum game makes sense if only the others get hurt much more than you do.

    HYUFD would cut his leg off if he knew everybody else would lose both legs.
    Well the South African President has taken a neutral stance between Russia and NATO not wholly without self interest.

    I would prefer him to be in the NATO camp but that is the reality
    Albania, former Stalinist/Maoist/Hoxhaist dictatorship is, much to my surprise, a NATO member.
    Germany, former Kaiserist autocracy and later National Socialist dictatorship is also a NATO member!
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,785
    They may have not left Russia, but consumer goods company Procter & Gamble is increasing prices tomorrow…..

    By 43%

    https://twitter.com/girkingirkin/status/1503412565170401280?s=21
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,323
    An employee on Russia’s state Channel One television has interrupted the channel’s main news programme with an extraordinary protest against Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine.

    Marina Ovsyannikova, an editor at Channel One, burst on to the set of the live broadcast of the nightly news on Monday evening, shouting: “Stop the war. No to war.”

    She also held a sign saying: “Don’t believe the propaganda. They’re lying to you here.” It was signed in English: “Russians against the war”.

    The news anchor continued to read from her teleprompter speaking louder in an attempt to drown out Ovsyannikova, but her protest could be seen and heard for several seconds before the channel switched to a record segment.

    Ovsyannikova also released a pre-recorded video on her social media channels in which she expressed her shame at working for Channel One and spreading “Kremlin propaganda”.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,362
    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    rpjs said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    FF43 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    biggles said:

    NEW DELHI, March 14 (Reuters) - India is considering taking up a Russian offer to buy its crude oil and other commodities at discounted prices with payment via a rupee-rouble transaction, two Indian officials said, amid tough Western sanctions on Russia over its invasion of Ukraine.

    India, which imports 80% of its oil needs, usually buys about 2% to 3% of its supplies from Russia. But with oil prices up 40% so far this year, the government is looking at increasing this if it can help reduce its rising energy bill.

    "Russia is offering oil and other commodities at a heavy discount. We will be happy to take that. We have some issues like tanker, insurance cover and oil blends to be resolved. Once we have that we will take the discount offer," one of the Indian government officials said.


    https://www.reuters.com/world/india/india-considers-buying-discounted-russian-oil-commodities-officials-say-2022-03-14/

    How will the oil get there? (Assuming the west buys up tanker capacity and doesn’t want it to).
    Well, there are lots of oil tankers in the world, and many of them are owned by private companies in tax havens who will happily take a premium rate to shift oil from Russia to Delhi.

    However... India's behaviour here is pretty appalling. The reality is that Russia will continue to be able to export oil (albeit gas is harder), if the Indians and Chinese say 'discount oil, lovely jubbly'.
    Tactless of India to be quite so blatant in their sanctions busting. They are supposed to be a trusted partner, blah blah...
    Terrible advert for the symbolic value of the Commonwealth.
    Or the Anglosphere. Or is it only white countries that are considered anglosphere?
    On the strictest definition, the core Anglosphere is only the UK, USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglosphere#:~:text=The Anglosphere is a group,diplomatic and military co-operation.
    And Ireland - 93% speak English as a first language (UK only 92%).
    Ireland can also be included but is not automatically in the core 5
    Anglosphere, % speaking English as a first language:

    Ireland 93.2%
    UK 92.3%
    NZ 85.9%
    USA 78.1%
    Aus 72.7%
    Can 54.4%.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_population
    How bloody big is Quebec and/or how many First Nations languages are there is only 54.4% of Canadians speak English as a first language?
    83% of Canadians speak English on that link
    You seem to have missed a critical word in my sentence. Or rather you misread it, and have amended, but that now doesn't make sense as a response to what I posted.
    Regardless as I said English language speakers is NOT the key criteria for the Anglosphere.

    The key criteria is military, political, diplomatic and cultural ties.

    Hence it only includes at its core the UK, USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand
    "Anglo" refers to the English language. Besides There are plenty of military, political, diplomatic and cultural ties between the UK and Ireland, particularly the last three. On the military front, you will know plenty of Irishmen fought in the UK forces in BOTH World Wars.
    Anglophone countries refers primarily to those which mainly speak English.

    Anglosphere countries are primarily those united by military, diplomatic, cultural and political ties.

    Ireland fought with us in WW1 but was neutral in WW2 and the Cold War unlike the USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand. The Republic of Ireland is also not in NATO
    Ireland (as a country, obv) didn't exist in WW1.
    Indeed, the only reason it fought with us is it was still in the UK.

    The Irish Free State was neutral in WW2 and the Republic of Ireland was neutral in the Cold War.

    The Republic of Ireland is also not in NATO or the Commonwealth.

    Hence it is not a core Anglosphere nation
    More Irish men served in the British armed forces during the Second World War than served in the Irish armed forces.

    ETA and by “Irish men” I mean from the 26 counties.
    You could legitimately also add the number of UK people who were released to join the UK forces because so many Irish people came over to work on such things as airfield construction.
    So what, millions of Indians also fought in WW2, many came over and have contributed to our core services since.

    However India is also not in the core Anglosphere either as like Ireland it was neutral in the Cold War and is not in NATO
    Doesn't change the basic point.

    That reminds me: I've never been able to extract an answer from you as to whether it was right for UKG to give India (as it was then) independence.

    Blaming it on Labour Governments does not count.
    Oh it does.

    The Republic of Ireland is not in NATO, is not in the Commonwealth, does not share our head of state, was neutral in the Cold War and was officially neutral in WW2.

    On no grounds whatsoever is the Republic of Ireland a core member of the Anglosphere. It is outer tier at most.

    As I said Churchill opposed Indian independence as did most Tories at the time, it was Attlee and Labour who gave then independence. However I am not answering irrelevant hypotheticals as I am a Tory for now and India is independent in the reality of today
    You're the one who insists relentlessly that what suited Henry VIII is absolutely the right way to run the UK today. And claims that the C of E is apolitical. When anyoine who knows any history knows that the very notion of an Established Church was always one of the most explosive political issues in any of the four nations of the so-called United Kingdom.
    Nope, the Church of England was created as the established church precisely to ensure the effective established church was not Roman Catholic Popery
    And, pray, why did Henry VIII not want Popery? YOu have a history degree ...
    Because he preferred fresh flowers, none of that dried stuff.
    More to the point, he preferred fresh ovaries.
    Hmm, I'm a bit worried now that my post came across as sexist and ageist, instead of it just being a pun on the word "popery". I wasn't comparing women to flowers. Popery. Potpourri. Nothing unkind meant about older women.
    I'm embarrassed I didn't spot the potpourri gag. When one fails like that it means the other absorbs their PB power, like Highlander. Use it well.
    "There can be only Pun!"
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,362
    Leon said:

    tlg86 said:

    So Putin supporters are Scousers..

    Tomasz Oryński
    @TOrynski
    If I read it correctly (i am not really any good in reading Russian) the sign on his jacket says "I support Putin".

    Great photo.


    https://twitter.com/TOrynski/status/1503477508091621384

    You look in the dustbin for something to eat?
    You find a dead dog and you think it's a treat?
    "Just eat"
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,502
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'm surprisingly confident that if Russia and China team up against the West they'll both end up losing, and the West will come out of it stronger than before.

    China and Russia being bossom buddies wouldn't be amazing news for the UK, but still less positive would be China and America being best buddies - the rest of the world wouldn't stand a chance. Balance of powers has always been the aim of British foreign policy, and unsurprisingly we have not prospered during the period of US hegemony. To the extent that most here (and probably in the wider country) are dribblingly terrified of a world with competing powers, where we have to find our way independently.
    "We have not prospered during the period of US hegemony"

    What drugs do you take?


    Sure, America supplanted us as global superpower, but that was gonna happen at some point, we are a small island and we governed 1/3 of the world, it was pretty unsustainable, and we kept it going for a fantastically long time

    Far far better we were overtaken by the USA than by the USSR (which America defeated) or Nazi Germany (which us and the Americans and USSR defeated) or by China (which we are now trying to defeat)

    Meanwhile, under this awful "US hegemony" Britons have become richer, healthier and better educated than at any time in their history, and the UK still wields significant soft and hard power, and is one of the world's leading nations of the 2nd rank, behind the USA and China

    Quite frankly, as I look around the world this evening, I would quite like outright US hegemony - 1990s style - to return and run the world for another century or two. Sadly that period has passed
    It would be better, I think, if Europe pulled together and became able to look after our own defence, but your fundamental point is sound. I was thinking at the weekend how different the world would feel if, say, America as the technological, economically and militarily dominant power were the fascist dictatorship and, say, Russia as the weaker power were the bastion of democracy on whom we depended. Not a happy place to be.
    The point is that global hegemony of any stripe makes it not a very comfortable place to be, though I agree that it is made more palatable if the hegemon has the trappings of Western democracy. The 19th century had a panoply of powers, large, small, medium, land powers, sea powers etc. Britain was a leading power, but never a global hegemon, and much as I am a fan of us, had we been, we may also have been unbearably exploitative - power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. The 19th century saw unparalleled peace, prosperity, and human advancement.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,097
    edited March 2022

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'm surprisingly confident that if Russia and China team up against the West they'll both end up losing, and the West will come out of it stronger than before.

    Unless there is a nuclear holocaust in which case nobody will be stronger than before by my understanding of the term
    South Africa?
    This, ladies and gentlemen, is an excellent example of HYUFD's thought:
    That the destruction of Western and Eastern countries "strengthens" those not directly destroyed because they would power on up the ranks. Never mind the fact that the biosphere would be a fucking state and the world economy would head backwards a number of centuries. Rank is what matters in HYUFD's Trumpist view, and a negative sum game makes sense if only the others get hurt much more than you do.

    HYUFD would cut his leg off if he knew everybody else would lose both legs.
    Well the South African President has taken a neutral stance between Russia and NATO not wholly without self interest.

    I would prefer him to be in the NATO camp but that is the reality
    Given you don't think some countries already in it should have been allowed to join NATO I am surprised you would advocate for others to either join or be allied to it.
    I refer you to my earlier post.
    HYUFD would be happy for South Africa to join because he fancies our chances of beating Eswatini in a war.
    Russia's a big boy, so we shouldn't meddle. Rank rank rank. Hit the little guy, give your lunch money to the big guy. No need to mess around with principles or whatever.
    It is only NATO and the Anglosphere which help us to contain the big boys of Russia and China.

    Yes we can defend the Falklands and Gibraltar and deal with Nationalists within our own islands but we cannot contain Putin and Xi alone
    I would suggest that Japan and South Korea - neither of which are either NATO nor Anglosphere are very much holding their end up as well.
    To an extent but as you say they are not in NATO nor are they in the AUKUS security agreement either
  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,176
    from Helsingin Sanomat on Finnish president Sauli Niinistö's interview with Christiane Amanpour for CNN in London after briefing Boris Johnson and Nordic leaders:

    1) Putin wants recognition that Crimea is part of Russia.

    2) Putin wants the Donbas to be considered part of Russia. Putin interprets the Donbass region broadly - separatist areas alone are not enough.

    3) Putin wants Ukraine demilitarized. Niinistö did not reveal in detail what this would mean in practice. It has been interpreted in the past that Putin would seek to destroy Ukraine's military infrastructure.

    4) Ukraine will be made a neutral country. It should therefore not join NATO or the European Union.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,791
    "US astronaut’s family in tears amid fears son could be left in space"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/russia-mark-vande-hei-nasa-astronaut-stranded-space-ukraine-b987771.htm
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    IanB2 said:

    An employee on Russia’s state Channel One television has interrupted the channel’s main news programme with an extraordinary protest against Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine.

    Marina Ovsyannikova, an editor at Channel One, burst on to the set of the live broadcast of the nightly news on Monday evening, shouting: “Stop the war. No to war.”

    She also held a sign saying: “Don’t believe the propaganda. They’re lying to you here.” It was signed in English: “Russians against the war”.

    The news anchor continued to read from her teleprompter speaking louder in an attempt to drown out Ovsyannikova, but her protest could be seen and heard for several seconds before the channel switched to a record segment.

    Ovsyannikova also released a pre-recorded video on her social media channels in which she expressed her shame at working for Channel One and spreading “Kremlin propaganda”.

    Russian twitter thread about her translated..

    Pavel Chikov
    @pchikov
    Who is this star of the First Channel? She must be protected urgently.

    Marina Ovsyannikova, editor of the First Channel. Detained, taken to the Ostankino police station. Went lawyer Daniil Berman

    there will be a protocol on the fashionable article on military censorship 20.3.3 of the Code of Administrative Offenses for discrediting the Russian armed forces

    The Ostankino police station does not have it. The police will apparently hide Marina from her lawyer.




    Marina Ovsyannikova can be held by the police for more than 3 hours only in two cases: registration of a protocol under the "arrest" article of the Code of Administrative Offenses - petty hooliganism (Article 20.1) or disobedience to the requirements of a police officer (Article 19.3) detention on suspicion of committing a crime1️⃣2️⃣

    Article 20.3.3 of the Code of Administrative Offenses on discrediting the armed forces, which appeared on March 4 and has already been applied at least 164 times in Russia for anti-war slogans, implies only punishment in the form of a fine. It does not allow the police to hold Ovsyannikova for more than three hours.

    ❗️Marina Ovsyannikova is in the duty part of the Ostankino television center, - says lawyer Daniil Berman. He is not allowed to visit her. At the television center there are several police cars of the Internal Affairs Department of the North-Eastern Administrative District of Moscow.

    https://twitter.com/pchikov/status/1503447201858691076
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,660

    Great. Just great.



    Allie Hodgkins-Brown
    @AllieHBNews
    ·
    17m
    Tuesday’s FINANCIAL TIMES: “China signalled willingness to provide Russia with military support, says US” #TomorrowsPapersToday

    Let's impose sanctions on China and stop importing their plastic tat.

    Mind, the west has turned a blind eye to their behaviour in Tibet, HK, etc, so I am not holding my breath.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,031
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    rpjs said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    FF43 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    biggles said:

    NEW DELHI, March 14 (Reuters) - India is considering taking up a Russian offer to buy its crude oil and other commodities at discounted prices with payment via a rupee-rouble transaction, two Indian officials said, amid tough Western sanctions on Russia over its invasion of Ukraine.

    India, which imports 80% of its oil needs, usually buys about 2% to 3% of its supplies from Russia. But with oil prices up 40% so far this year, the government is looking at increasing this if it can help reduce its rising energy bill.

    "Russia is offering oil and other commodities at a heavy discount. We will be happy to take that. We have some issues like tanker, insurance cover and oil blends to be resolved. Once we have that we will take the discount offer," one of the Indian government officials said.


    https://www.reuters.com/world/india/india-considers-buying-discounted-russian-oil-commodities-officials-say-2022-03-14/

    How will the oil get there? (Assuming the west buys up tanker capacity and doesn’t want it to).
    Well, there are lots of oil tankers in the world, and many of them are owned by private companies in tax havens who will happily take a premium rate to shift oil from Russia to Delhi.

    However... India's behaviour here is pretty appalling. The reality is that Russia will continue to be able to export oil (albeit gas is harder), if the Indians and Chinese say 'discount oil, lovely jubbly'.
    Tactless of India to be quite so blatant in their sanctions busting. They are supposed to be a trusted partner, blah blah...
    Terrible advert for the symbolic value of the Commonwealth.
    Or the Anglosphere. Or is it only white countries that are considered anglosphere?
    On the strictest definition, the core Anglosphere is only the UK, USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglosphere#:~:text=The Anglosphere is a group,diplomatic and military co-operation.
    And Ireland - 93% speak English as a first language (UK only 92%).
    Ireland can also be included but is not automatically in the core 5
    Anglosphere, % speaking English as a first language:

    Ireland 93.2%
    UK 92.3%
    NZ 85.9%
    USA 78.1%
    Aus 72.7%
    Can 54.4%.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_population
    How bloody big is Quebec and/or how many First Nations languages are there is only 54.4% of Canadians speak English as a first language?
    83% of Canadians speak English on that link
    You seem to have missed a critical word in my sentence. Or rather you misread it, and have amended, but that now doesn't make sense as a response to what I posted.
    Regardless as I said English language speakers is NOT the key criteria for the Anglosphere.

    The key criteria is military, political, diplomatic and cultural ties.

    Hence it only includes at its core the UK, USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand
    "Anglo" refers to the English language. Besides There are plenty of military, political, diplomatic and cultural ties between the UK and Ireland, particularly the last three. On the military front, you will know plenty of Irishmen fought in the UK forces in BOTH World Wars.
    Anglophone countries refers primarily to those which mainly speak English.

    Anglosphere countries are primarily those united by military, diplomatic, cultural and political ties.

    Ireland fought with us in WW1 but was neutral in WW2 and the Cold War unlike the USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand. The Republic of Ireland is also not in NATO
    Ireland (as a country, obv) didn't exist in WW1.
    Indeed, the only reason it fought with us is it was still in the UK.

    The Irish Free State was neutral in WW2 and the Republic of Ireland was neutral in the Cold War.

    The Republic of Ireland is also not in NATO or the Commonwealth.

    Hence it is not a core Anglosphere nation
    More Irish men served in the British armed forces during the Second World War than served in the Irish armed forces.

    ETA and by “Irish men” I mean from the 26 counties.
    Still percentage wise far less than in the UK, Australia, Canada and New Zealand and Ireland was also still neutral in the Cold War unlike them.

    The Republic of Ireland is also still not in NATO unlike most of them either, so remains outside the core Anglosphere
    On your logic, Northern Ireland wasn't really in the UK either. There was no conscription in WW2.
    Northern Ireland was and is a part of the UK, it did what the UK government told it to do in defence and foreign policy
    Doesn't change the fact that it wasn't enough of a part of the UK for the UK government to treat it as a total part of the UK.

    Just like the Tory Government today doesn't consider it part of the UK.
    Yes it does, Northern Ireland went to war with the Nazis as the UK government decided for it.

    This Tory Government will soon invoke Article 16
    IN the knowledge that most people in NI oppose it.

    Colonialists. Imperialists.
    Most Unionists support it and as long as the UK government does not impose a hard border in Ireland the rest have no grounds to complain
    But Article 16 is all about invoking a hard border.
    No it isn't, a technical solution can be used in Ireland
    That is what is happening. You can even read the EU's own proposal for the techincal solution here (https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/STUD/2017/596828/IPOL_STU(2017)596828_EN.pdf)

  • Options
    darkagedarkage Posts: 4,797
    My advice, as armchair strategist, is to distract Putin with another proxy war, whilst he is getting bogged down in Ukraine. Find some new breakaway republic to back, or something.
  • Options
    JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,016

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'm surprisingly confident that if Russia and China team up against the West they'll both end up losing, and the West will come out of it stronger than before.

    Unless there is a nuclear holocaust in which case nobody will be stronger than before by my understanding of the term
    South Africa?
    This, ladies and gentlemen, is an excellent example of HYUFD's thought:
    That the destruction of Western and Eastern countries "strengthens" those not directly destroyed because they would power on up the ranks. Never mind the fact that the biosphere would be a fucking state and the world economy would head backwards a number of centuries. Rank is what matters in HYUFD's Trumpist view, and a negative sum game makes sense if only the others get hurt much more than you do.

    HYUFD would cut his leg off if he knew everybody else would lose both legs.
    Well the South African President has taken a neutral stance between Russia and NATO not wholly without self interest.

    I would prefer him to be in the NATO camp but that is the reality
    Albania, former Stalinist/Maoist/Hoxhaist dictatorship is, much to my surprise, a NATO member.
    Germany, former Kaiserist autocracy and later National Socialist dictatorship is also a NATO member!
    That was a bit longer ago. Someone of my age would have spent the first 26 years of their life under Stalinism (broadly defined)
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,194
    Andy_JS said:
    I recently read Tim Peake's book Ask An Astronaut (it's very good, by the way).

    He covered many things regarding complications with space flight and all the dangers. He didn't cover the scenario facing Vande Hei.
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,914
    A
    darkage said:

    My advice, as armchair strategist, is to distract Putin with another proxy war, whilst he is getting bogged down in Ukraine. Find some new breakaway republic to back, or something.

    Wasn't that what Japan was up to a few days ago?
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,278

    Visegrád 24
    @visegrad24
    ·
    47m
    Bayer has threatened to suspend crop supply sales to Russia unless the country stops its attacks on Ukraine.

    The German drug and agrochemical conglomerate, a leading seed and crop treatment supplier, said it is considering halting the sale of essential farming inputs to Russia.

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1503475625792786436
  • Options
    JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,016
    darkage said:

    My advice, as armchair strategist, is to distract Putin with another proxy war, whilst he is getting bogged down in Ukraine. Find some new breakaway republic to back, or something.

    Indeed. A second/third front would be great. Maybe if the Ukrainians can find and kill Kadyrov the Chechens will kick off again.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,502
    edited March 2022

    darkage said:

    My advice, as armchair strategist, is to distract Putin with another proxy war, whilst he is getting bogged down in Ukraine. Find some new breakaway republic to back, or something.

    Indeed. A second/third front would be great. Maybe if the Ukrainians can find and kill Kadyrov the Chechens will kick off again.
    Yay, more death!
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,737
    Andy_JS said:
    Page not found
  • Options

    Andy_JS said:
    Page not found
    Add an l on the end of the link (ie .html)
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,549
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Important

    "In recent days China has locked down tens of millions in several cities, as it braces for a much worse wave than Jan 2020 where the bulk of infection was confined to Hubei province."

    The Chinese are expecting the Omicron wave to be MUCH WORSE than Wuhan/Hubei

    https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1503420730100396032?s=20&t=x2ek4lWyGUhV0RNMeOO3Kg

    This story could be as big as Ukraine, in its own way



    Christ...


    John Burn-Murdoch
    @jburnmurdoch
    ·
    2h
    Around 15 million over-80s in mainland China are still unvaccinated. An astonishing number
    China claims that not a single person in their country has died of Covid-19 since April 2020. The number has been stuck on 4,636 since then.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
    Last time I could be arsed to check I think I calculated (sub-back of a envelope level accuracy) that China was effectively claiming to have done 20 times better than even New Zealand. Hmmm. Very hmmm.
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,052
    darkage said:

    My advice, as armchair strategist, is to distract Putin with another proxy war, whilst he is getting bogged down in Ukraine. Find some new breakaway republic to back, or something.

    They may not necessarily need our encouragement. Huge, diverse country with a collapsing economy, decimated military and an autocratic government losing control? Sounds ripe for rebellion.
  • Options
    JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,016

    darkage said:

    My advice, as armchair strategist, is to distract Putin with another proxy war, whilst he is getting bogged down in Ukraine. Find some new breakaway republic to back, or something.

    Indeed. A second/third front would be great. Maybe if the Ukrainians can find and kill Kadyrov the Chechens will kick off again.
    Yay, more death!
    That's how you win wars, I'm afraid.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,278
    Bleak reading.



    Putin and Xi Jinping Flirt With the Attractions of a Wider European War

    "The new threat to Europe is that in going for broke, Putin might try to widen the conflict on the Hitlerian assumption that the best way to retrieve a massive strategic blunder is to make another one somewhere else; throwing all the cards in the air to see if a better hand is available when they land. "


    "In essence, Putin seems to be flirting with the idea of a greater European war since he cannot see how to win the one he has already started. "


    https://tippingpoint2020s.com/2022/03/14/putin-and-xi-jinping-flirt-with-the-attractions-of-a-wider-european-war/
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,515
    IshmaelZ said:
    Usual MSM garbage - https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/03/after-two-weeks-of-war-the-international-space-station-flies-on/

    In addition, SpaceX has something close to launch on demand - With their current cadence there is a rocket on the pad being prepped for a flight nearly continuously.
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,549

    IshmaelZ said:
    Usual MSM garbage - https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/03/after-two-weeks-of-war-the-international-space-station-flies-on/

    In addition, SpaceX has something close to launch on demand - With their current cadence there is a rocket on the pad being prepped for a flight nearly continuously.
    Musk would love to launch a rescure mission, maybe that's why he's offering to fight Putin?
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,323

    IanB2 said:

    An employee on Russia’s state Channel One television has interrupted the channel’s main news programme with an extraordinary protest against Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine.

    Marina Ovsyannikova, an editor at Channel One, burst on to the set of the live broadcast of the nightly news on Monday evening, shouting: “Stop the war. No to war.”

    She also held a sign saying: “Don’t believe the propaganda. They’re lying to you here.” It was signed in English: “Russians against the war”.

    The news anchor continued to read from her teleprompter speaking louder in an attempt to drown out Ovsyannikova, but her protest could be seen and heard for several seconds before the channel switched to a record segment.

    Ovsyannikova also released a pre-recorded video on her social media channels in which she expressed her shame at working for Channel One and spreading “Kremlin propaganda”.

    Russian twitter thread about her translated..

    Pavel Chikov
    @pchikov
    Who is this star of the First Channel? She must be protected urgently.

    Marina Ovsyannikova, editor of the First Channel. Detained, taken to the Ostankino police station. Went lawyer Daniil Berman

    there will be a protocol on the fashionable article on military censorship 20.3.3 of the Code of Administrative Offenses for discrediting the Russian armed forces

    The Ostankino police station does not have it. The police will apparently hide Marina from her lawyer.




    Marina Ovsyannikova can be held by the police for more than 3 hours only in two cases: registration of a protocol under the "arrest" article of the Code of Administrative Offenses - petty hooliganism (Article 20.1) or disobedience to the requirements of a police officer (Article 19.3) detention on suspicion of committing a crime1️⃣2️⃣

    Article 20.3.3 of the Code of Administrative Offenses on discrediting the armed forces, which appeared on March 4 and has already been applied at least 164 times in Russia for anti-war slogans, implies only punishment in the form of a fine. It does not allow the police to hold Ovsyannikova for more than three hours.

    ❗️Marina Ovsyannikova is in the duty part of the Ostankino television center, - says lawyer Daniil Berman. He is not allowed to visit her. At the television center there are several police cars of the Internal Affairs Department of the North-Eastern Administrative District of Moscow.

    https://twitter.com/pchikov/status/1503447201858691076
    She’s not going to be seen again while Putin is still around. Hopefully he’ll be gone and she’ll be released eventually. As she says in her video, “they can’t put everyone in prison”.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,352

    Evening folks.

    Well, signed up for the official Government refugee system today saying we have space in our house for a couple of Ukrainians so we will see what happens next.

    A few thoughts on the process.

    The introductory pages seem to be unnecessarily convoluted to actually get to the sign up page. I assume this is because they want to make sure everyone has properly absorbed the implications of signing up but it didn't seem immediately obvious where to go to get to the bit where you fill out your details. At one point I did find that clicking buttons which were supposed to get me to the forms put me back to the start again.

    Secondly the forms themselves are very straight forward and easy to complete. A good thing and well done.

    Thirdly - and my main criticism - is the idiotic decision that initially you will only be able to host someone who is not your relative if you have independently made contact with them through social media. as it stands you have to be able to name the person or persons you are expecting to host. Now I know a couple of people professionally in Ukraine but none of them are interested in being given safe haven. They are too busy trying to kick the Russians out of their country. So for now there seems to be no way to link up ourselves as people wiling to host refugees with Ukrainians who need refuge.

    This seems to me to be a particularly daft system and one that - since it relies on social media contacts - seems rife for the less scrupulous including traffickers to take advantage. The Government must have a list of those they have already accepted for entry to the UK so why not just assign people as necessary.

    I will keep you informed of developments.

    Anyone else signed up yet who can compare notes and thoughts?

    Well done Richard. My landlady has tried, but the website seemed to be down - she'll have another go in a couple of days. She was confused by the term "sponsor" - thought it meant someone had to vouch for her.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,278
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    An employee on Russia’s state Channel One television has interrupted the channel’s main news programme with an extraordinary protest against Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine.

    Marina Ovsyannikova, an editor at Channel One, burst on to the set of the live broadcast of the nightly news on Monday evening, shouting: “Stop the war. No to war.”

    She also held a sign saying: “Don’t believe the propaganda. They’re lying to you here.” It was signed in English: “Russians against the war”.

    The news anchor continued to read from her teleprompter speaking louder in an attempt to drown out Ovsyannikova, but her protest could be seen and heard for several seconds before the channel switched to a record segment.

    Ovsyannikova also released a pre-recorded video on her social media channels in which she expressed her shame at working for Channel One and spreading “Kremlin propaganda”.

    Russian twitter thread about her translated..

    Pavel Chikov
    @pchikov
    Who is this star of the First Channel? She must be protected urgently.

    Marina Ovsyannikova, editor of the First Channel. Detained, taken to the Ostankino police station. Went lawyer Daniil Berman

    there will be a protocol on the fashionable article on military censorship 20.3.3 of the Code of Administrative Offenses for discrediting the Russian armed forces

    The Ostankino police station does not have it. The police will apparently hide Marina from her lawyer.




    Marina Ovsyannikova can be held by the police for more than 3 hours only in two cases: registration of a protocol under the "arrest" article of the Code of Administrative Offenses - petty hooliganism (Article 20.1) or disobedience to the requirements of a police officer (Article 19.3) detention on suspicion of committing a crime1️⃣2️⃣

    Article 20.3.3 of the Code of Administrative Offenses on discrediting the armed forces, which appeared on March 4 and has already been applied at least 164 times in Russia for anti-war slogans, implies only punishment in the form of a fine. It does not allow the police to hold Ovsyannikova for more than three hours.

    ❗️Marina Ovsyannikova is in the duty part of the Ostankino television center, - says lawyer Daniil Berman. He is not allowed to visit her. At the television center there are several police cars of the Internal Affairs Department of the North-Eastern Administrative District of Moscow.

    https://twitter.com/pchikov/status/1503447201858691076
    She’s not going to be seen again while Putin is still around. Hopefully he’ll be gone and she’ll be released eventually. As she says in her video, “they can’t put everyone in prison”.
    He can actually. In the NK sense of RU is becoming one massive open prison.
  • Options
    Re election, it will be between a majority and a Hung Parliament. If polls show even a slim majority Johnson goes for it I reckon
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,097

    Bleak reading.



    Putin and Xi Jinping Flirt With the Attractions of a Wider European War

    "The new threat to Europe is that in going for broke, Putin might try to widen the conflict on the Hitlerian assumption that the best way to retrieve a massive strategic blunder is to make another one somewhere else; throwing all the cards in the air to see if a better hand is available when they land. "


    "In essence, Putin seems to be flirting with the idea of a greater European war since he cannot see how to win the one he has already started. "


    https://tippingpoint2020s.com/2022/03/14/putin-and-xi-jinping-flirt-with-the-attractions-of-a-wider-european-war/

    Though also suggests the sanctions imposed by the West on Russia may have put Xi off invading Taiwan
  • Options
    LDLFLDLF Posts: 144
    darkage said:

    My advice, as armchair strategist, is to distract Putin with another proxy war, whilst he is getting bogged down in Ukraine. Find some new breakaway republic to back, or something.

    What are the Tartars up to these days? They seem the obvious choice.
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    Re election, it will be between a majority and a Hung Parliament. If polls show even a slim majority Johnson goes for it I reckon

    We are in the middle of the greatest European crisis since WW2. The idea Johnson will call a general election now or before 2024 is ludicrous and certainly not on current polling
    2023 seems likely
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,278
    HYUFD said:

    Re election, it will be between a majority and a Hung Parliament. If polls show even a slim majority Johnson goes for it I reckon

    We are in the middle of the greatest European crisis since WW2. The idea Johnson will call a general election now or before 2024 is ludicrous
    Exactly.

    Seems unlikely it will be over before the end of 2022 and indeed could well be far far worse by then.

  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,515
    glw said:

    IshmaelZ said:
    Usual MSM garbage - https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/03/after-two-weeks-of-war-the-international-space-station-flies-on/

    In addition, SpaceX has something close to launch on demand - With their current cadence there is a rocket on the pad being prepped for a flight nearly continuously.
    Musk would love to launch a rescure mission, maybe that's why he's offering to fight Putin?
    It's more about how fucked in the head Dmitry "I'm Fucked In De head" Rogozin is when he is on/off his pills.

    It is interesting ho quiet Musk has been on twitter - apart from the Starlink offer to Ukraine.

    - Russian space program fall down, go doom
    - Everyone round the world is queuing up to see if Musk has spare launches
    - Half his American rivals were using Russian/Ukrainian stuff
    - Sue Origin still can't make rocket engines.
    - Boeing still can't fly a capsule.

    Quite a lot of people are speculating that SpaceX will fly OneWeb satellites, just for the LOLs, and being able to tell the anti-trust lawyers to sit and spin....

    The real problem is that if the Russians turn off the system that de-saturates the orientation gyros for ISS, then the station loses attitude control fairly rapidly. It's in the Russian segment of ISS.....
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,235

    Re election, it will be between a majority and a Hung Parliament. If polls show even a slim majority Johnson goes for it I reckon

    I can’t see Johnson going early unless there is a substantial poll lead, and even then the ghost of 2017 will loom large. Same applies if Johnson is replaced. It’s not as if there isn’t a decent majority to do stuff, if only the world would stop throwing curve balls all the time...
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'm surprisingly confident that if Russia and China team up against the West they'll both end up losing, and the West will come out of it stronger than before.

    Unless there is a nuclear holocaust in which case nobody will be stronger than before by my understanding of the term
    South Africa?
    This, ladies and gentlemen, is an excellent example of HYUFD's thought:
    That the destruction of Western and Eastern countries "strengthens" those not directly destroyed because they would power on up the ranks. Never mind the fact that the biosphere would be a fucking state and the world economy would head backwards a number of centuries. Rank is what matters in HYUFD's Trumpist view, and a negative sum game makes sense if only the others get hurt much more than you do.

    HYUFD would cut his leg off if he knew everybody else would lose both legs.
    Well the South African President has taken a neutral stance between Russia and NATO not wholly without self interest.

    I would prefer him to be in the NATO camp but that is the reality
    Given you don't think some countries already in it should have been allowed to join NATO I am surprised you would advocate for others to either join or be allied to it.
    I refer you to my earlier post.
    HYUFD would be happy for South Africa to join because he fancies our chances of beating Eswatini in a war.
    Russia's a big boy, so we shouldn't meddle. Rank rank rank. Hit the little guy, give your lunch money to the big guy. No need to mess around with principles or whatever.
    It is only NATO and the Anglosphere which help us to contain the big boys of Russia and China.

    Yes we can defend the Falklands and Gibraltar and deal with Nationalists within our own islands but we cannot contain Putin and Xi alone
    I would suggest that Japan and South Korea - neither of which are either NATO nor Anglosphere are very much holding their end up as well.
    To an extent but as you say they are not in NATO nor are they in the AUKUS security agreement either
    You really are out of touch if you think that AUKUS would take action without the approval and engagement of South Korea and Japan
  • Options
    RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,977
    Presumably if China supplies Russia, the
    West would have to think about onshoring some of the lost manufacturing capability (hopefully not just the cheap tat..)
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,278
    President Biden’s national security adviser met with a top Chinese official on Monday to warn against China giving Russia military or economic assistance, as the Kremlin struggles with the aftermath of its invasion of Ukraine.

    NY Times blog
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,898

    President Biden’s national security adviser met with a top Chinese official on Monday to warn against China giving Russia military or economic assistance, as the Kremlin struggles with the aftermath of its invasion of Ukraine.

    NY Times blog

    I don't really see what would be in it for the Chinese to get involved in any way at all. Can't they just sit it out and then buy up Russian assets at knockdown prices?
  • Options
    Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,060

    Re election, it will be between a majority and a Hung Parliament. If polls show even a slim majority Johnson goes for it I reckon

    Either a majority or a hung parliament are the only two options available: who do you think will have the majority?
  • Options

    HYUFD said:

    Re election, it will be between a majority and a Hung Parliament. If polls show even a slim majority Johnson goes for it I reckon

    We are in the middle of the greatest European crisis since WW2. The idea Johnson will call a general election now or before 2024 is ludicrous and certainly not on current polling
    2023 seems likely
    Only after boundary changes
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,969

    Evening folks.

    Well, signed up for the official Government refugee system today saying we have space in our house for a couple of Ukrainians so we will see what happens next.

    A few thoughts on the process.

    The introductory pages seem to be unnecessarily convoluted to actually get to the sign up page. I assume this is because they want to make sure everyone has properly absorbed the implications of signing up but it didn't seem immediately obvious where to go to get to the bit where you fill out your details. At one point I did find that clicking buttons which were supposed to get me to the forms put me back to the start again.

    Secondly the forms themselves are very straight forward and easy to complete. A good thing and well done.

    Thirdly - and my main criticism - is the idiotic decision that initially you will only be able to host someone who is not your relative if you have independently made contact with them through social media. as it stands you have to be able to name the person or persons you are expecting to host. Now I know a couple of people professionally in Ukraine but none of them are interested in being given safe haven. They are too busy trying to kick the Russians out of their country. So for now there seems to be no way to link up ourselves as people wiling to host refugees with Ukrainians who need refuge.

    This seems to me to be a particularly daft system and one that - since it relies on social media contacts - seems rife for the less scrupulous including traffickers to take advantage. The Government must have a list of those they have already accepted for entry to the UK so why not just assign people as necessary.

    I will keep you informed of developments.

    Anyone else signed up yet who can compare notes and thoughts?

    Well done Richard. My landlady has tried, but the website seemed to be down - she'll have another go in a couple of days. She was confused by the term "sponsor" - thought it meant someone had to vouch for her.
    No I read that to mean that we as the hosts are 'sponsoring' the Ukrainians by providing them with accommodation etc and helping them find work, schooling, getting onto the local Health system etc.

  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,323
    HYUFD said:

    Re election, it will be between a majority and a Hung Parliament. If polls show even a slim majority Johnson goes for it I reckon

    We are in the middle of the greatest European crisis since WW2. The idea Johnson will call a general election now or before 2024 is ludicrous and certainly not on current polling
    So it’s ludicrous in principle, but all your posts contain the vital point that really it’s about self-interest
  • Options
    43,000 applications for Gove's sponsorship scheme received by 9.00pm tonight
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,714
    MISTY said:

    darkage said:

    (reposted FPT)
    I think that Johnson will ride out the Lebedev issues. He will keep saying that the security services never issued any meaningful warnings about him. I still haven't seen any significant evidence that Lebedev is a malign influence, other than he had a line to Putin - not unexpected for someone in his position. How Lebedev got to be where he is, and where all his money came from, is an interesting question; but Boris Johnson cannot be blamed for that.

    Johnson's luck is astounding.

    Ukraine has enabled him to get beyond partygate, keep covid blunders out of the headlines, turn immigration around from a very unpromising place, bury tax rises and find an excuse to finesse energy policy beyond net zero.

    And then there's inflation......Food prices? Petrol costs? Vlad's fault guvnor.

    Its almost tailor made.
    Just as Brexit saved him from 2 years of bad Brexit's-not-working headlines!
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,865
    Russia’s suggested peace terms (reported upthread via the Helsinki newspaper) are interesting, I note that they wish Ukraine not to join EU.

    Opportunity for UK and Ukraine to craft some kind of extra-EU sphere, perhaps along with EFTA.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,310
    Noticing more Johnson on here and less Boris. The war effect? Whatever, good to see.
  • Options

    MISTY said:

    darkage said:

    (reposted FPT)
    I think that Johnson will ride out the Lebedev issues. He will keep saying that the security services never issued any meaningful warnings about him. I still haven't seen any significant evidence that Lebedev is a malign influence, other than he had a line to Putin - not unexpected for someone in his position. How Lebedev got to be where he is, and where all his money came from, is an interesting question; but Boris Johnson cannot be blamed for that.

    Johnson's luck is astounding.

    Ukraine has enabled him to get beyond partygate, keep covid blunders out of the headlines, turn immigration around from a very unpromising place, bury tax rises and find an excuse to finesse energy policy beyond net zero.

    And then there's inflation......Food prices? Petrol costs? Vlad's fault guvnor.

    Its almost tailor made.
    Just as Brexit saved him from 2 years of bad Brexit's-not-working headlines!
    Do you not mean covid ?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,898

    Russia’s suggested peace terms (reported upthread via the Helsinki newspaper) are interesting, I note that they wish Ukraine not to join EU.

    Really? They've kept that wish very quiet. If only they'd done something to show how much they hated the idea.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,898
    kinabalu said:

    Noticing more Johnson on here and less Boris. The war effect? Whatever, good to see.

    It's your imagination.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,134
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    An employee on Russia’s state Channel One television has interrupted the channel’s main news programme with an extraordinary protest against Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine.

    Marina Ovsyannikova, an editor at Channel One, burst on to the set of the live broadcast of the nightly news on Monday evening, shouting: “Stop the war. No to war.”

    She also held a sign saying: “Don’t believe the propaganda. They’re lying to you here.” It was signed in English: “Russians against the war”.

    The news anchor continued to read from her teleprompter speaking louder in an attempt to drown out Ovsyannikova, but her protest could be seen and heard for several seconds before the channel switched to a record segment.

    Ovsyannikova also released a pre-recorded video on her social media channels in which she expressed her shame at working for Channel One and spreading “Kremlin propaganda”.

    Russian twitter thread about her translated..

    Pavel Chikov
    @pchikov
    Who is this star of the First Channel? She must be protected urgently.

    Marina Ovsyannikova, editor of the First Channel. Detained, taken to the Ostankino police station. Went lawyer Daniil Berman

    there will be a protocol on the fashionable article on military censorship 20.3.3 of the Code of Administrative Offenses for discrediting the Russian armed forces

    The Ostankino police station does not have it. The police will apparently hide Marina from her lawyer.




    Marina Ovsyannikova can be held by the police for more than 3 hours only in two cases: registration of a protocol under the "arrest" article of the Code of Administrative Offenses - petty hooliganism (Article 20.1) or disobedience to the requirements of a police officer (Article 19.3) detention on suspicion of committing a crime1️⃣2️⃣

    Article 20.3.3 of the Code of Administrative Offenses on discrediting the armed forces, which appeared on March 4 and has already been applied at least 164 times in Russia for anti-war slogans, implies only punishment in the form of a fine. It does not allow the police to hold Ovsyannikova for more than three hours.

    ❗️Marina Ovsyannikova is in the duty part of the Ostankino television center, - says lawyer Daniil Berman. He is not allowed to visit her. At the television center there are several police cars of the Internal Affairs Department of the North-Eastern Administrative District of Moscow.

    https://twitter.com/pchikov/status/1503447201858691076
    She’s not going to be seen again while Putin is still around. Hopefully he’ll be gone and she’ll be released eventually. As she says in her video, “they can’t put everyone in prison”.
    Stalin had a good go. Anyone who might be a threat anyway.
  • Options
    kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,962

    Evening folks.

    Well, signed up for the official Government refugee system today saying we have space in our house for a couple of Ukrainians so we will see what happens next.

    A few thoughts on the process.

    The introductory pages seem to be unnecessarily convoluted to actually get to the sign up page. I assume this is because they want to make sure everyone has properly absorbed the implications of signing up but it didn't seem immediately obvious where to go to get to the bit where you fill out your details. At one point I did find that clicking buttons which were supposed to get me to the forms put me back to the start again.

    Secondly the forms themselves are very straight forward and easy to complete. A good thing and well done.

    Thirdly - and my main criticism - is the idiotic decision that initially you will only be able to host someone who is not your relative if you have independently made contact with them through social media. as it stands you have to be able to name the person or persons you are expecting to host. Now I know a couple of people professionally in Ukraine but none of them are interested in being given safe haven. They are too busy trying to kick the Russians out of their country. So for now there seems to be no way to link up ourselves as people wiling to host refugees with Ukrainians who need refuge.

    This seems to me to be a particularly daft system and one that - since it relies on social media contacts - seems rife for the less scrupulous including traffickers to take advantage. The Government must have a list of those they have already accepted for entry to the UK so why not just assign people as necessary.

    I will keep you informed of developments.

    Anyone else signed up yet who can compare notes and thoughts?

    Well done Richard. My landlady has tried, but the website seemed to be down - she'll have another go in a couple of days. She was confused by the term "sponsor" - thought it meant someone had to vouch for her.
    No I read that to mean that we as the hosts are 'sponsoring' the Ukrainians by providing them with accommodation etc and helping them find work, schooling, getting onto the local Health system etc.

    Well done, and thank you. I'd love to take someone in, but my place only has one bedroom.
    kle4 said:

    President Biden’s national security adviser met with a top Chinese official on Monday to warn against China giving Russia military or economic assistance, as the Kremlin struggles with the aftermath of its invasion of Ukraine.

    NY Times blog

    I don't really see what would be in it for the Chinese to get involved in any way at all. Can't they just sit it out and then buy up Russian assets at knockdown prices?
    I think China is perhaps the only economy that can withstand autarky. We could be witnessing the end of globalization, a model which the West depends on for its prosperity. At the moment, we're bankrupting Russia. But if this escalates, we could end up bankrupt as well. For that reason, it may benefit China to pour a little petrol on the fire.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,898
    To placate Russia I suggest Ukraine join the European Union of European Union Allies. Who could object to joining the EUEUA?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,097

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'm surprisingly confident that if Russia and China team up against the West they'll both end up losing, and the West will come out of it stronger than before.

    Unless there is a nuclear holocaust in which case nobody will be stronger than before by my understanding of the term
    South Africa?
    This, ladies and gentlemen, is an excellent example of HYUFD's thought:
    That the destruction of Western and Eastern countries "strengthens" those not directly destroyed because they would power on up the ranks. Never mind the fact that the biosphere would be a fucking state and the world economy would head backwards a number of centuries. Rank is what matters in HYUFD's Trumpist view, and a negative sum game makes sense if only the others get hurt much more than you do.

    HYUFD would cut his leg off if he knew everybody else would lose both legs.
    Well the South African President has taken a neutral stance between Russia and NATO not wholly without self interest.

    I would prefer him to be in the NATO camp but that is the reality
    Given you don't think some countries already in it should have been allowed to join NATO I am surprised you would advocate for others to either join or be allied to it.
    I refer you to my earlier post.
    HYUFD would be happy for South Africa to join because he fancies our chances of beating Eswatini in a war.
    Russia's a big boy, so we shouldn't meddle. Rank rank rank. Hit the little guy, give your lunch money to the big guy. No need to mess around with principles or whatever.
    It is only NATO and the Anglosphere which help us to contain the big boys of Russia and China.

    Yes we can defend the Falklands and Gibraltar and deal with Nationalists within our own islands but we cannot contain Putin and Xi alone
    I would suggest that Japan and South Korea - neither of which are either NATO nor Anglosphere are very much holding their end up as well.
    To an extent but as you say they are not in NATO nor are they in the AUKUS security agreement either
    You really are out of touch if you think that AUKUS would take action without the approval and engagement of South Korea and Japan
    Depends what it was, if China ever threatened Australia it would
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,865
    kle4 said:

    Russia’s suggested peace terms (reported upthread via the Helsinki newspaper) are interesting, I note that they wish Ukraine not to join EU.

    Really? They've kept that wish very quiet. If only they'd done something to show how much they hated the idea.
    Despite your sarcasm, I don’t think they’d spelled it out before.
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,134
    kinabalu said:

    Noticing more Johnson on here and less Boris. The war effect? Whatever, good to see.

    Not a good time to have a Russian name I guess. Although, if you're going to fund your party with shed loads of roubles from dodgy oligarchs then calling yourself "Boris" at least has the benefit of consistency.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,134
    kinabalu said:

    Noticing more Johnson on here and less Boris. The war effect? Whatever, good to see.

    Boris will be Boris.....
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,097
    kyf_100 said:

    Evening folks.

    Well, signed up for the official Government refugee system today saying we have space in our house for a couple of Ukrainians so we will see what happens next.

    A few thoughts on the process.

    The introductory pages seem to be unnecessarily convoluted to actually get to the sign up page. I assume this is because they want to make sure everyone has properly absorbed the implications of signing up but it didn't seem immediately obvious where to go to get to the bit where you fill out your details. At one point I did find that clicking buttons which were supposed to get me to the forms put me back to the start again.

    Secondly the forms themselves are very straight forward and easy to complete. A good thing and well done.

    Thirdly - and my main criticism - is the idiotic decision that initially you will only be able to host someone who is not your relative if you have independently made contact with them through social media. as it stands you have to be able to name the person or persons you are expecting to host. Now I know a couple of people professionally in Ukraine but none of them are interested in being given safe haven. They are too busy trying to kick the Russians out of their country. So for now there seems to be no way to link up ourselves as people wiling to host refugees with Ukrainians who need refuge.

    This seems to me to be a particularly daft system and one that - since it relies on social media contacts - seems rife for the less scrupulous including traffickers to take advantage. The Government must have a list of those they have already accepted for entry to the UK so why not just assign people as necessary.

    I will keep you informed of developments.

    Anyone else signed up yet who can compare notes and thoughts?

    Well done Richard. My landlady has tried, but the website seemed to be down - she'll have another go in a couple of days. She was confused by the term "sponsor" - thought it meant someone had to vouch for her.
    No I read that to mean that we as the hosts are 'sponsoring' the Ukrainians by providing them with accommodation etc and helping them find work, schooling, getting onto the local Health system etc.

    Well done, and thank you. I'd love to take someone in, but my place only has one bedroom.
    kle4 said:

    President Biden’s national security adviser met with a top Chinese official on Monday to warn against China giving Russia military or economic assistance, as the Kremlin struggles with the aftermath of its invasion of Ukraine.

    NY Times blog

    I don't really see what would be in it for the Chinese to get involved in any way at all. Can't they just sit it out and then buy up Russian assets at knockdown prices?
    I think China is perhaps the only economy that can withstand autarky. We could be witnessing the end of globalization, a model which the West depends on for its prosperity. At the moment, we're bankrupting Russia. But if this escalates, we could end up bankrupt as well. For that reason, it may benefit China to pour a little petrol on the fire.
    The Chinese model of economic growth is very dependent on cheap exports to the US and Europe.

    If demand for that falls it hits them too
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 25,009
    Sizewell b to continue for another 20 years (if possible)

    https://www.ft.com/content/51d4ff8c-f0c0-4082-8db6-11c031be1420
This discussion has been closed.