I am surprised nobody has mentioned the obscure suggestion that a colony of Varangian English settled on the shore of the Black Sea after the Norman Invasion.
Something like that. I can’t find it on Google, but it’s definitely a thing.
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
The Normans, the Vikings, the Saxons, the Huguenots, even the Jews and the Romans and the generations of Britons since, the Victorians, the Georgians etc indeed even the Afro Caribbeans and the immigrants from South Asia did more to create modern Great Britain than the Irish did
You cannot tell the story of these islands, and thus this island, without the Irish. Big impact on early christianity here too, IIRC. I'm not sure what your problem is with the Irish that you want to cut them out of the tale.
They had some influence but plenty of other groups had more.
The issue is the Irish have insisted on a hard border in the Irish Sea yet still demand to be part of a CTA with GB prioritising themselves over other European or Australian, Canadian or New Zealand migrants to the UK who we even still share the Queen with unlike them
The Irish don't demand any such thing. It's a mutually beneficial arrangement, and it ensures that Irish political independence from the UK doesn't negatively affect the opportunities for people on the neighbouring islands of Britain and Ireland by making it needlessly difficult for us to move between the two islands.
Why would we want to wreck that?
Until Dublin and the EU remove the Irish Sea border I agree with Leon, we could well end the CTA.
There is absolutely no reason why the Irish should have priority over migrants we share the Queen and Commonwealth with like Canadians, Australians or New Zealanders or those we share English with like India and the USA or other Europeans now. They can go via the same points system as everyone else.
A hard border in the Irish Sea leads to inevitable consequences even if they face more difficulty finding work in London
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
The Normans, the Vikings, the Saxons, the Huguenots, even the Jews and the Romans and the generations of Britons since, the Victorians, the Georgians etc indeed even the Afro Caribbeans and the immigrants from South Asia did more to create modern Great Britain than the Irish did
You cannot tell the story of these islands, and thus this island, without the Irish. Big impact on early christianity here too, IIRC. I'm not sure what your problem is with the Irish that you want to cut them out of the tale.
They had some influence but plenty of other groups had more.
The issue is the Irish have insisted on a hard border in the Irish Sea yet still demand to be part of a CTA with GB prioritising themselves over other European or Australian, Canadian or New Zealand migrants to the UK who we even still share the Queen with unlike them
At the 2016 Census, there were 103,000 UK citizens living in the Republic.
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
The Normans, the Vikings, the Saxons, the Huguenots, even the Jews and the Romans and the generations of Britons since, the Victorians, the Georgians etc indeed even the Afro Caribbeans and the immigrants from South Asia did more to create modern Great Britain than the Irish did
That's ridiculous rubbish. The Irish built Britain's railways. They became a touchstone of English identity, by being the antithesis of everything the English thought of themselves as. You cannot understand England without understanding Ireland (and vice versa, of course).
'They became a touchstone of English identity, by being the antithesis of everything the English thought of themselves as.'
So no closer to us than New Zealanders or Australians then, given most of the latter's ancestors were actually British
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
The Normans, the Vikings, the Saxons, the Huguenots, even the Jews and the Romans and the generations of Britons since, the Victorians, the Georgians etc indeed even the Afro Caribbeans and the immigrants from South Asia did more to create modern Great Britain than the Irish did
You cannot tell the story of these islands, and thus this island, without the Irish. Big impact on early christianity here too, IIRC. I'm not sure what your problem is with the Irish that you want to cut them out of the tale.
They had some influence but plenty of other groups had more.
The issue is the Irish have insisted on a hard border in the Irish Sea yet still demand to be part of a CTA with GB prioritising themselves over other European or Australian, Canadian or New Zealand migrants to the UK who we even still share the Queen with unlike them
At the 2016 Census, there were 103,000 UK citizens living in the Republic.
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
The Normans, the Vikings, the Saxons, the Huguenots, even the Jews and the Romans and the generations of Britons since, the Victorians, the Georgians etc indeed even the Afro Caribbeans and the immigrants from South Asia did more to create modern Great Britain than the Irish did
You cannot tell the story of these islands, and thus this island, without the Irish. Big impact on early christianity here too, IIRC. I'm not sure what your problem is with the Irish that you want to cut them out of the tale.
They had some influence but plenty of other groups had more.
The issue is the Irish have insisted on a hard border in the Irish Sea yet still demand to be part of a CTA with GB prioritising themselves over other European or Australian, Canadian or New Zealand migrants to the UK who we even still share the Queen with unlike them
At the 2016 Census, there were 103,000 UK citizens living in the Republic.
So less than 1% of the UK population
I think they would still like the CTA to be in place!
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
It's an interesting argument - and I'd agree that it's largely true for first and some second gen immigrants, I'm a dual citizen brought up in the (still very large) London Irish community, but the fate of our two countries is indelibly tied together.
We don't even share a head of state or the Commonwealth or EU or NATO with the Republic of Ireland now.
I feel closer to Australians, New Zealanders or Canadians than I do to citizens of the Republic
We share a land border however. And the English language.
NI does, thanks to the EU and Dublin GB now has a hard border with Ireland in the Irish Sea.
39% of the Irish also speak Irish, Australians and New Zealanders do not speak a language distinct from English as well, nor do Canadians outside Quebec
Fewer than 2% of the population of the Republic of Ireland today speak Irish on a daily basis, and under 10% regularly, outside of the education system.
And yet Irish (technically Gaelic, right?) is used exactly nowhere* in Ireland on a day-to-day basis.
* MAYBE in the Gaelic Department of TCD
Bit more than that, in Gaeltacht in western Ireland, but not much. Though virtually everyone in the Republic were taught some Irish in school. And of course used in street signs, many common names & etc.
Am struck by proposed language test for British nationality, esp. one based NOT on use of English, but rather use of some other language.
Which of course puts Outer Hebrides and North Wales beyond the Pale (pun intended).
I am surprised nobody has mentioned the obscure suggestion that a colony of Varangian English settled on the shore of the Black Sea after the Norman Invasion.
Something like that. I can’t find it on Google, but it’s definitely a thing.
Personally I am very doubtful that it actually existed, but it could be a top way to troll Putin if Zelenskyy were to say tomorrow to the Commons that after the war he’d consider leasing the area to the UK as a thank you.
I am surprised nobody has mentioned the obscure suggestion that a colony of Varangian English settled on the shore of the Black Sea after the Norman Invasion.
Something like that. I can’t find it on Google, but it’s definitely a thing.
Perhaps we could have that bit.
I think that was one of the tidbits mentioned in The Last King English King by Julian Rathbone. A truly wondrous book.
"According to the recently discovered Chronicon universale anonymi Laudunensis, a group of English notables immigrated to Byzantium in 235 ships, reaching Constantinople in 1075. Some 4350 of the emigrants and their families remained in Constantinople in imperial service, while a majority of the refugees sailed to a place called Domapia, six days’ journey from Byzantium, conquered it and renamed it Nova Anglia (New England)."
Also, this bit may be of use to Ukranians needing to cite family links when applying for UK visas: "For example, ties between the Kievan Rus’ and England were not unknown. The exiled Gyda, daughter of Harold II Godwinson, married Kievan Prince Vladimir Monomakh..."
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
The Normans, the Vikings, the Saxons, the Huguenots, even the Jews and the Romans and the generations of Britons since, the Victorians, the Georgians etc indeed even the Afro Caribbeans and the immigrants from South Asia did more to create modern Great Britain than the Irish did
You cannot tell the story of these islands, and thus this island, without the Irish. Big impact on early christianity here too, IIRC. I'm not sure what your problem is with the Irish that you want to cut them out of the tale.
Of course the Irish shaped Britain. As did a whole bunch of other nationalities. That still doesn't mean they should have a bunch of special privileges when they don't have a loyalty to Britain. I can understand letting them have special rights in Northern Ireland but it makes no sense in mainland GB.
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
The Normans, the Vikings, the Saxons, the Huguenots, even the Jews and the Romans and the generations of Britons since, the Victorians, the Georgians etc indeed even the Afro Caribbeans and the immigrants from South Asia did more to create modern Great Britain than the Irish did
You cannot tell the story of these islands, and thus this island, without the Irish. Big impact on early christianity here too, IIRC. I'm not sure what your problem is with the Irish that you want to cut them out of the tale.
They had some influence but plenty of other groups had more.
The issue is the Irish have insisted on a hard border in the Irish Sea yet still demand to be part of a CTA with GB prioritising themselves over other European or Australian, Canadian or New Zealand migrants to the UK who we even still share the Queen with unlike them
The Irish don't demand any such thing. It's a mutually beneficial arrangement, and it ensures that Irish political independence from the UK doesn't negatively affect the opportunities for people on the neighbouring islands of Britain and Ireland by making it needlessly difficult for us to move between the two islands.
Why would we want to wreck that?
Until Dublin and the EU remove the Irish Sea border I agree with Leon, we could well end the CTA.
There is absolutely no reason why the Irish should have priority over migrants we share the Queen and Commonwealth with like Canadians, Australians or New Zealanders or those we share English with like India and the USA or other Europeans now. They can go via the same points system as everyone else.
A hard border in the Irish Sea leads to inevitable consequences even if they face more difficulty finding work in London
At the 2011 Indian Census, only 260,000 Indians spoke English as a first language (0.02%).
@JimmySecUK shows Russian Su-34s are using commercial GPS kit in their cockpits. Former RAF specialist @rwek2012 notices it is American-made. How’s that for operational security?
What's the deal here? Garmins can use GLONASS, and they don't transmit anything allowing the user to be tracked. Where's the potential security breach?
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
The Normans, the Vikings, the Saxons, the Huguenots, even the Jews and the Romans and the generations of Britons since, the Victorians, the Georgians etc indeed even the Afro Caribbeans and the immigrants from South Asia did more to create modern Great Britain than the Irish did
I think the peak number of Irish navvies digging canals, railway embankments, tunnels, and so on was about 100,000. Tell me where would modern Britain have been without its water and rail transportation?
Why dos it have to be a competition? All these immigrant populations contributed to making modern Britain. And why does every arrangement we have have to follow some strange political logic? So we have an ad hoc travel arrangement with the Irish. So what? I have not seen it adversely affect our lives in this country because Irish are able to travel freely around these islands. The CTA makes sense. The voting situation may not be logical but I don't see it changing any results so again. So What?
The CTA made sense while the UK and Irish governments were aligned on who was allowed into the area. If they are not aligned (as seems to be the case with people from the Ukraine), then there's a problem.
That said... I must admit to thinking it is the Irish who are in the right here.
I am surprised nobody has mentioned the obscure suggestion that a colony of Varangian English settled on the shore of the Black Sea after the Norman Invasion.
Something like that. I can’t find it on Google, but it’s definitely a thing.
Personally I am very doubtful that it actually existed, but it could be a top way to troll Putin if Zelenskyy were to say tomorrow to the Commons that after the war he’d consider leasing the area to the UK as a thank you.
The British did occupy Sevastopol for a short time after the Crimean War ended.
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
The Normans, the Vikings, the Saxons, the Huguenots, even the Jews and the Romans and the generations of Britons since, the Victorians, the Georgians etc indeed even the Afro Caribbeans and the immigrants from South Asia did more to create modern Great Britain than the Irish did
You cannot tell the story of these islands, and thus this island, without the Irish. Big impact on early christianity here too, IIRC. I'm not sure what your problem is with the Irish that you want to cut them out of the tale.
They had some influence but plenty of other groups had more.
The issue is the Irish have insisted on a hard border in the Irish Sea yet still demand to be part of a CTA with GB prioritising themselves over other European or Australian, Canadian or New Zealand migrants to the UK who we even still share the Queen with unlike them
The Irish don't demand any such thing. It's a mutually beneficial arrangement, and it ensures that Irish political independence from the UK doesn't negatively affect the opportunities for people on the neighbouring islands of Britain and Ireland by making it needlessly difficult for us to move between the two islands.
Why would we want to wreck that?
Until Dublin and the EU remove the Irish Sea border I agree with Leon, we could well end the CTA.
There is absolutely no reason why the Irish should have priority over migrants we share the Queen and Commonwealth with like Canadians, Australians or New Zealanders or those we share English with like India and the USA or other Europeans now. They can go via the same points system as everyone else.
A hard border in the Irish Sea leads to inevitable consequences even if they face more difficulty finding work in London
At the 2011 Indian Census, only 260,000 Indians spoke English as a first language (0.02%).
We don't have a CTA with India do we, in fact we don't have a CTA with any other nation but the Republic of Ireland.
It is the only nation exempt now from our points based immigration system despite the hard border in the Irish Sea Dublin and Brussels insisted on and despite the fact the Republic left the UK 100 years ago and got rid of the Queen as Head of State over 75 years ago.
As Aslan states there might be merit in keeping the CTA with NI but if Dublin wants a hard border with GB no reason its citizens should get free movement with GB still
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
The Normans, the Vikings, the Saxons, the Huguenots, even the Jews and the Romans and the generations of Britons since, the Victorians, the Georgians etc indeed even the Afro Caribbeans and the immigrants from South Asia did more to create modern Great Britain than the Irish did
You cannot tell the story of these islands, and thus this island, without the Irish. Big impact on early christianity here too, IIRC. I'm not sure what your problem is with the Irish that you want to cut them out of the tale.
They had some influence but plenty of other groups had more.
The issue is the Irish have insisted on a hard border in the Irish Sea yet still demand to be part of a CTA with GB prioritising themselves over other European or Australian, Canadian or New Zealand migrants to the UK who we even still share the Queen with unlike them
The Irish don't demand any such thing. It's a mutually beneficial arrangement, and it ensures that Irish political independence from the UK doesn't negatively affect the opportunities for people on the neighbouring islands of Britain and Ireland by making it needlessly difficult for us to move between the two islands.
Why would we want to wreck that?
Until Dublin and the EU remove the Irish Sea border I agree with Leon, we could well end the CTA.
There is absolutely no reason why the Irish should have priority over migrants we share the Queen and Commonwealth with like Canadians, Australians or New Zealanders or those we share English with like India and the USA or other Europeans now. They can go via the same points system as everyone else.
A hard border in the Irish Sea leads to inevitable consequences even if they face more difficulty finding work in London
At the 2011 Indian Census, only 260,000 Indians spoke English as a first language (0.02%).
I am surprised nobody has mentioned the obscure suggestion that a colony of Varangian English settled on the shore of the Black Sea after the Norman Invasion.
Something like that. I can’t find it on Google, but it’s definitely a thing.
Personally I am very doubtful that it actually existed, but it could be a top way to troll Putin if Zelenskyy were to say tomorrow to the Commons that after the war he’d consider leasing the area to the UK as a thank you.
Yes. Considering it is now home the Russian Black Sea fleet.
Maybe it’s true, maybe not. We await genetic testing which seems to have developed immensely in recent years.
Cue @Richard_Tyndall to talk about whether the invading Anglo-Saxons exterminated the existing Celts or whether they just intermarried.
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
It's an interesting argument - and I'd agree that it's largely true for first and some second gen immigrants, I'm a dual citizen brought up in the (still very large) London Irish community, but the fate of our two countries is indelibly tied together.
We don't even share a head of state or the Commonwealth or EU or NATO with the Republic of Ireland now.
I feel closer to Australians, New Zealanders or Canadians than I do to citizens of the Republic
We share a land border however. And the English language.
NI does, thanks to the EU and Dublin GB now has a hard border with Ireland in the Irish Sea.
39% of the Irish also speak Irish, Australians and New Zealanders do not speak a language distinct from English as well, nor do Canadians outside Quebec
Fewer than 2% of the population of the Republic of Ireland today speak Irish on a daily basis, and under 10% regularly, outside of the education system.
And yet Irish (technically Gaelic, right?) is used exactly nowhere* in Ireland on a day-to-day basis.
* MAYBE in the Gaelic Department of TCD
Bit more than that, in Gaeltacht in western Ireland, but not much. Though virtually everyone in the Republic were taught some Irish in school. And of course used in street signs, many common names & etc.
Am struck by proposed language test for British nationality, esp. one based NOT on use of English, but rather use of some other language.
Which of course puts Outer Hebrides and North Wales beyond the Pale (pun intended).
Has no-one else on PB seen the excellent John Michael McDonagh film “The Guard”, with Brendan Gleeson and Don Cheadle?
Irish dialogue subtitled: “ This is Ireland. Go over to England if you want to speak English.”
The UK is immensely richer for its Irish heritage. I really struggle to understand this smaller and smaller conception of England.
It seems strange that Irish can vote though. Commonwealth citizens too. I’ve no idea why this is maintained, it isn’t reciprocal (and still wouldn’t make sense if it was).
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
The Normans, the Vikings, the Saxons, the Huguenots, even the Jews and the Romans and the generations of Britons since, the Victorians, the Georgians etc indeed even the Afro Caribbeans and the immigrants from South Asia did more to create modern Great Britain than the Irish did
You cannot tell the story of these islands, and thus this island, without the Irish. Big impact on early christianity here too, IIRC. I'm not sure what your problem is with the Irish that you want to cut them out of the tale.
Of course the Irish shaped Britain. As did a whole bunch of other nationalities. That still doesn't mean they should have a bunch of special privileges when they don't have a loyalty to Britain. I can understand letting them have special rights in Northern Ireland but it makes no sense in mainland GB.
Perhaps these right exist in the first place, is because successive British governments since 1921 have regarded them as important, at times vital, to British national interest?
And what interest was/is that? Primarily labor. Men and women who left/leave Ireland to work in Britain, in agriculture, construction, nursing, plenty of other fields. Including British military, such as 70k volunteers from Republic in WW2.
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
The Normans, the Vikings, the Saxons, the Huguenots, even the Jews and the Romans and the generations of Britons since, the Victorians, the Georgians etc indeed even the Afro Caribbeans and the immigrants from South Asia did more to create modern Great Britain than the Irish did
You cannot tell the story of these islands, and thus this island, without the Irish. Big impact on early christianity here too, IIRC. I'm not sure what your problem is with the Irish that you want to cut them out of the tale.
Of course the Irish shaped Britain. As did a whole bunch of other nationalities. That still doesn't mean they should have a bunch of special privileges when they don't have a loyalty to Britain. I can understand letting them have special rights in Northern Ireland but it makes no sense in mainland GB.
You do know that those privileges are reciprocal for British citizens living in Ireland?
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
The Normans, the Vikings, the Saxons, the Huguenots, even the Jews and the Romans and the generations of Britons since, the Victorians, the Georgians etc indeed even the Afro Caribbeans and the immigrants from South Asia did more to create modern Great Britain than the Irish did
You cannot tell the story of these islands, and thus this island, without the Irish. Big impact on early christianity here too, IIRC. I'm not sure what your problem is with the Irish that you want to cut them out of the tale.
They had some influence but plenty of other groups had more.
The issue is the Irish have insisted on a hard border in the Irish Sea yet still demand to be part of a CTA with GB prioritising themselves over other European or Australian, Canadian or New Zealand migrants to the UK who we even still share the Queen with unlike them
The Irish don't demand any such thing. It's a mutually beneficial arrangement, and it ensures that Irish political independence from the UK doesn't negatively affect the opportunities for people on the neighbouring islands of Britain and Ireland by making it needlessly difficult for us to move between the two islands.
Why would we want to wreck that?
Until Dublin and the EU remove the Irish Sea border I agree with Leon, we could well end the CTA.
There is absolutely no reason why the Irish should have priority over migrants we share the Queen and Commonwealth with like Canadians, Australians or New Zealanders or those we share English with like India and the USA or other Europeans now. They can go via the same points system as everyone else.
A hard border in the Irish Sea leads to inevitable consequences even if they face more difficulty finding work in London
At the 2011 Indian Census, only 260,000 Indians spoke English as a first language (0.02%).
We don't have a CTA with India do we, in fact we don't have a CTA with any other nation but the Republic of Ireland.
It is the only nation exempt now from our points based immigration system despite the hard border in the Irish Sea Dublin and Brussels insisted on and despite the fact the Republic left the UK 100 years ago and got rid of the Queen as Head of State over 75 years ago.
As Aslan states there might be merit in keeping the CTA with NI but if Dublin wants a hard border with GB no reason its citizens should get free movement with GB still
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
The Normans, the Vikings, the Saxons, the Huguenots, even the Jews and the Romans and the generations of Britons since, the Victorians, the Georgians etc indeed even the Afro Caribbeans and the immigrants from South Asia did more to create modern Great Britain than the Irish did
You cannot tell the story of these islands, and thus this island, without the Irish. Big impact on early christianity here too, IIRC. I'm not sure what your problem is with the Irish that you want to cut them out of the tale.
They had some influence but plenty of other groups had more.
The issue is the Irish have insisted on a hard border in the Irish Sea yet still demand to be part of a CTA with GB prioritising themselves over other European or Australian, Canadian or New Zealand migrants to the UK who we even still share the Queen with unlike them
The Irish don't demand any such thing. It's a mutually beneficial arrangement, and it ensures that Irish political independence from the UK doesn't negatively affect the opportunities for people on the neighbouring islands of Britain and Ireland by making it needlessly difficult for us to move between the two islands.
Why would we want to wreck that?
Until Dublin and the EU remove the Irish Sea border I agree with Leon, we could well end the CTA.
There is absolutely no reason why the Irish should have priority over migrants we share the Queen and Commonwealth with like Canadians, Australians or New Zealanders or those we share English with like India and the USA or other Europeans now. They can go via the same points system as everyone else.
A hard border in the Irish Sea leads to inevitable consequences even if they face more difficulty finding work in London
At the 2011 Indian Census, only 260,000 Indians spoke English as a first language (0.02%).
We don't have a CTA with India do we, in fact we don't have a CTA with any other nation but the Republic of Ireland.
It is the only nation exempt now from our points based immigration system despite the hard border in the Irish Sea Dublin and Brussels insisted on and despite the fact the Republic left the UK 100 years ago and got rid of the Queen as Head of State over 75 years ago.
As Aslan states there might be merit in keeping the CTA with NI but if Dublin wants a hard border with GB no reason its citizens should get free movement with GB still
"It is the only nation exempt now from our points based immigration system"
The law is that that the Irish are not aliens, and enjoy all the same rights and responsibilities as Brits.
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
The Normans, the Vikings, the Saxons, the Huguenots, even the Jews and the Romans and the generations of Britons since, the Victorians, the Georgians etc indeed even the Afro Caribbeans and the immigrants from South Asia did more to create modern Great Britain than the Irish did
You cannot tell the story of these islands, and thus this island, without the Irish. Big impact on early christianity here too, IIRC. I'm not sure what your problem is with the Irish that you want to cut them out of the tale.
They had some influence but plenty of other groups had more.
The issue is the Irish have insisted on a hard border in the Irish Sea yet still demand to be part of a CTA with GB prioritising themselves over other European or Australian, Canadian or New Zealand migrants to the UK who we even still share the Queen with unlike them
The Irish don't demand any such thing. It's a mutually beneficial arrangement, and it ensures that Irish political independence from the UK doesn't negatively affect the opportunities for people on the neighbouring islands of Britain and Ireland by making it needlessly difficult for us to move between the two islands.
Why would we want to wreck that?
Until Dublin and the EU remove the Irish Sea border I agree with Leon, we could well end the CTA.
There is absolutely no reason why the Irish should have priority over migrants we share the Queen and Commonwealth with like Canadians, Australians or New Zealanders or those we share English with like India and the USA or other Europeans now. They can go via the same points system as everyone else.
A hard border in the Irish Sea leads to inevitable consequences even if they face more difficulty finding work in London
At the 2011 Indian Census, only 260,000 Indians spoke English as a first language (0.02%).
We don't have a CTA with India do we, in fact we don't have a CTA with any other nation but the Republic of Ireland.
It is the only nation exempt now from our points based immigration system despite the hard border in the Irish Sea Dublin and Brussels insisted on and despite the fact the Republic left the UK 100 years ago and got rid of the Queen as Head of State over 75 years ago.
As Aslan states there might be merit in keeping the CTA with NI but if Dublin wants a hard border with GB no reason its citizens should get free movement with GB still
*cough*
Isle of Man Guernsey Jersey
*cough*
We don't have a hard border with them and we share the Queen as Head of State with them, they are Crown dependencies, not fully independent nations
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
The Normans, the Vikings, the Saxons, the Huguenots, even the Jews and the Romans and the generations of Britons since, the Victorians, the Georgians etc indeed even the Afro Caribbeans and the immigrants from South Asia did more to create modern Great Britain than the Irish did
You cannot tell the story of these islands, and thus this island, without the Irish. Big impact on early christianity here too, IIRC. I'm not sure what your problem is with the Irish that you want to cut them out of the tale.
They had some influence but plenty of other groups had more.
The issue is the Irish have insisted on a hard border in the Irish Sea yet still demand to be part of a CTA with GB prioritising themselves over other European or Australian, Canadian or New Zealand migrants to the UK who we even still share the Queen with unlike them
The Irish don't demand any such thing. It's a mutually beneficial arrangement, and it ensures that Irish political independence from the UK doesn't negatively affect the opportunities for people on the neighbouring islands of Britain and Ireland by making it needlessly difficult for us to move between the two islands.
Why would we want to wreck that?
Coz the Irish are taking the fucking piss. They are now, theoretically, the third richest nation on earth. Why do we give them free movement to London and not more talented Brazilians, Bolivians and Bengalis?
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
The Normans, the Vikings, the Saxons, the Huguenots, even the Jews and the Romans and the generations of Britons since, the Victorians, the Georgians etc indeed even the Afro Caribbeans and the immigrants from South Asia did more to create modern Great Britain than the Irish did
You cannot tell the story of these islands, and thus this island, without the Irish. Big impact on early christianity here too, IIRC. I'm not sure what your problem is with the Irish that you want to cut them out of the tale.
They had some influence but plenty of other groups had more.
The issue is the Irish have insisted on a hard border in the Irish Sea yet still demand to be part of a CTA with GB prioritising themselves over other European or Australian, Canadian or New Zealand migrants to the UK who we even still share the Queen with unlike them
The Irish don't demand any such thing. It's a mutually beneficial arrangement, and it ensures that Irish political independence from the UK doesn't negatively affect the opportunities for people on the neighbouring islands of Britain and Ireland by making it needlessly difficult for us to move between the two islands.
Why would we want to wreck that?
Until Dublin and the EU remove the Irish Sea border I agree with Leon, we could well end the CTA.
There is absolutely no reason why the Irish should have priority over migrants we share the Queen and Commonwealth with like Canadians, Australians or New Zealanders or those we share English with like India and the USA or other Europeans now. They can go via the same points system as everyone else.
A hard border in the Irish Sea leads to inevitable consequences even if they face more difficulty finding work in London
At the 2011 Indian Census, only 260,000 Indians spoke English as a first language (0.02%).
We don't have a CTA with India do we, in fact we don't have a CTA with any other nation but the Republic of Ireland.
It is the only nation exempt now from our points based immigration system despite the hard border in the Irish Sea Dublin and Brussels insisted on and despite the fact the Republic left the UK 100 years ago and got rid of the Queen as Head of State over 75 years ago.
As Aslan states there might be merit in keeping the CTA with NI but if Dublin wants a hard border with GB no reason its citizens should get free movement with GB still
*cough*
Isle of Man Guernsey Jersey
*cough*
We don't have a hard border with them and we share the Queen as Head of State with them, they are Crown dependencies, not fully independent nations
Yet tomorrow any British citizen can move to Ireland and live and work and buy property there with no restriction. They can’t do that in the Channel Islands or Isle of Man.
I am surprised nobody has mentioned the obscure suggestion that a colony of Varangian English settled on the shore of the Black Sea after the Norman Invasion.
Something like that. I can’t find it on Google, but it’s definitely a thing.
Perhaps we could have that bit.
I think that was one of the tidbits mentioned in The Last King English King by Julian Rathbone. A truly wondrous book.
"According to the recently discovered Chronicon universale anonymi Laudunensis, a group of English notables immigrated to Byzantium in 235 ships, reaching Constantinople in 1075. Some 4350 of the emigrants and their families remained in Constantinople in imperial service, while a majority of the refugees sailed to a place called Domapia, six days’ journey from Byzantium, conquered it and renamed it Nova Anglia (New England)."
Also, this bit may be of use to Ukranians needing to cite family links when applying for UK visas: "For example, ties between the Kievan Rus’ and England were not unknown. The exiled Gyda, daughter of Harold II Godwinson, married Kievan Prince Vladimir Monomakh..."
"You do realize, inspector, that my Aunt Gyda has intimate connections in the highest government circles?"
Maybe they'll assume the reference is to the Prime Minister? Who does have Black Sea ancestry.
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
It's an interesting argument - and I'd agree that it's largely true for first and some second gen immigrants, I'm a dual citizen brought up in the (still very large) London Irish community, but the fate of our two countries is indelibly tied together.
We don't even share a head of state or the Commonwealth or EU or NATO with the Republic of Ireland now.
I feel closer to Australians, New Zealanders or Canadians than I do to citizens of the Republic
We share a land border however. And the English language.
NI does, thanks to the EU and Dublin GB now has a hard border with Ireland in the Irish Sea.
39% of the Irish also speak Irish, Australians and New Zealanders do not speak a language distinct from English as well, nor do Canadians outside Quebec
Fewer than 2% of the population of the Republic of Ireland today speak Irish on a daily basis, and under 10% regularly, outside of the education system.
And yet Irish (technically Gaelic, right?) is used exactly nowhere* in Ireland on a day-to-day basis.
* MAYBE in the Gaelic Department of TCD
That's not true. There are a few small Gaeltacht areas scattered around. From time-to-time there's a bit of a minor scandal when someone from one of these areas wants to apply for a mortgage, and the nearest bank branch (not in the Gaeltacht area) struggles to find an employee who can do it in Irish for them.
My wife's best friend recently broke up with her fiance because he didn't want to live in one of the Gaeltacht areas. I imagine the attitude to use of English in those areas must be rather hostile, even if only implicitly, because people have generally made a choice to live in an area where they can speak Irish day to day, and so use of English has to be kept out.
In English, the name for the Irish language is Irish, while in Irish it is Gaeilge, which I think can be badly pronounced as Gaelic. Talking about the Irish language in English as Gaelic would be the equivalent of badly pronouncing "Francais" instead of saying French. But this is a bit confusing because of the desire to use Irish terms in English - eg for example with the use of Taoiseach.
Maybe a downer this post, unless you have some cheery answers
*oil, gas, Big Macs
The UK appear to be announcing all sorts of plans for extra drilling of North sea for Gas and Oil tonight. It seems the markets were spooked today by the push, largely from US, to stop paying Putin for Gas and Oil. Which does make sense, why punish breadline Russians when at same time we are pouring money into the Kremlin?
With the EU saying to UK, hurry up and pillage your Oligarchs, US saying to EU, our consumers are happy to be Russian free on energy use hurry up and do the same - it’s obvious not everyone is exposed in the same way. Whilst we are cancelling the Russian peoples access to Premiership football and shaming McDonalds for still trading there, European governments still handing Putin’s government the money to stay afloat and fund his war. When can we turn off our supply of good money straight into Putin’s regime?
If McDonalds shut, that’s some low paid people who don’t have much say in sane government in Kremlin out of a job. Are we now just picking low hanging fruit to make ourselves feel better? The right way to do this sanctioning is target the evil regime, not the poor everyday Russian people who we actually want on our side?
How soon can EU and UK be less dependent on paying Putin, without ravaged by supply and price issues? I fear the answer is much more than weeks isn’t it?
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
The Normans, the Vikings, the Saxons, the Huguenots, even the Jews and the Romans and the generations of Britons since, the Victorians, the Georgians etc indeed even the Afro Caribbeans and the immigrants from South Asia did more to create modern Great Britain than the Irish did
You cannot tell the story of these islands, and thus this island, without the Irish. Big impact on early christianity here too, IIRC. I'm not sure what your problem is with the Irish that you want to cut them out of the tale.
Of course the Irish shaped Britain. As did a whole bunch of other nationalities. That still doesn't mean they should have a bunch of special privileges when they don't have a loyalty to Britain. I can understand letting them have special rights in Northern Ireland but it makes no sense in mainland GB.
You do know that those privileges are reciprocal for British citizens living in Ireland?
Sure, which makes it easier to swallow than Indians and Pakistanis voting here with no reciprocal rights. But it is still unbalanced because net migration is overwhelmingly in one direction. If you want to have a say in British governance, become British. A lot of Irish don't want to do that because they define their identities as being the antithesis of British as described below. Which is fine. But you shouldn't be able to influence British elections in that case.
I am surprised nobody has mentioned the obscure suggestion that a colony of Varangian English settled on the shore of the Black Sea after the Norman Invasion.
Something like that. I can’t find it on Google, but it’s definitely a thing.
Personally I am very doubtful that it actually existed, but it could be a top way to troll Putin if Zelenskyy were to say tomorrow to the Commons that after the war he’d consider leasing the area to the UK as a thank you.
I wouldn't go that far, but if they wanted a location for a military training college, then that would be appropriate, given how well the British training of some of the members of the Ukrainian Armed Forces looks to have gone.
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
The Normans, the Vikings, the Saxons, the Huguenots, even the Jews and the Romans and the generations of Britons since, the Victorians, the Georgians etc indeed even the Afro Caribbeans and the immigrants from South Asia did more to create modern Great Britain than the Irish did
You cannot tell the story of these islands, and thus this island, without the Irish. Big impact on early christianity here too, IIRC. I'm not sure what your problem is with the Irish that you want to cut them out of the tale.
They had some influence but plenty of other groups had more.
The issue is the Irish have insisted on a hard border in the Irish Sea yet still demand to be part of a CTA with GB prioritising themselves over other European or Australian, Canadian or New Zealand migrants to the UK who we even still share the Queen with unlike them
The Irish don't demand any such thing. It's a mutually beneficial arrangement, and it ensures that Irish political independence from the UK doesn't negatively affect the opportunities for people on the neighbouring islands of Britain and Ireland by making it needlessly difficult for us to move between the two islands.
Why would we want to wreck that?
Until Dublin and the EU remove the Irish Sea border I agree with Leon, we could well end the CTA.
There is absolutely no reason why the Irish should have priority over migrants we share the Queen and Commonwealth with like Canadians, Australians or New Zealanders or those we share English with like India and the USA or other Europeans now. They can go via the same points system as everyone else.
A hard border in the Irish Sea leads to inevitable consequences even if they face more difficulty finding work in London
At the 2011 Indian Census, only 260,000 Indians spoke English as a first language (0.02%).
We don't have a CTA with India do we, in fact we don't have a CTA with any other nation but the Republic of Ireland.
It is the only nation exempt now from our points based immigration system despite the hard border in the Irish Sea Dublin and Brussels insisted on and despite the fact the Republic left the UK 100 years ago and got rid of the Queen as Head of State over 75 years ago.
As Aslan states there might be merit in keeping the CTA with NI but if Dublin wants a hard border with GB no reason its citizens should get free movement with GB still
*cough*
Isle of Man Guernsey Jersey
*cough*
We don't have a hard border with them and we share the Queen as Head of State with them, they are Crown dependencies, not fully independent nations
Yet tomorrow any British citizen can move to Ireland and live and work and buy property there with no restriction. They can’t do that in the Channel Islands or Isle of Man.
No one wants to go live in “Ireland”. It is a shit version of Scotland with bits of a Gaelic Liverpool.
It’s rubbish
That’s the point. Freedom of movement is tempting if you chuck in the algarve, Provence and the Cyclades. Ireland is basically a toilet. No one wants to go there
The UK is immensely richer for its Irish heritage. I really struggle to understand this smaller and smaller conception of England.
It seems strange that Irish can vote though. Commonwealth citizens too. I’ve no idea why this is maintained, it isn’t reciprocal (and still wouldn’t make sense if it was).
Which is my exact position. I have no problem with the Irish, and I entirely distance myself from HYUFD's mad rantings. I just think running for office, voting and donating to political campaigns should be limited to British citizens.
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
The Normans, the Vikings, the Saxons, the Huguenots, even the Jews and the Romans and the generations of Britons since, the Victorians, the Georgians etc indeed even the Afro Caribbeans and the immigrants from South Asia did more to create modern Great Britain than the Irish did
You cannot tell the story of these islands, and thus this island, without the Irish. Big impact on early christianity here too, IIRC. I'm not sure what your problem is with the Irish that you want to cut them out of the tale.
They had some influence but plenty of other groups had more.
The issue is the Irish have insisted on a hard border in the Irish Sea yet still demand to be part of a CTA with GB prioritising themselves over other European or Australian, Canadian or New Zealand migrants to the UK who we even still share the Queen with unlike them
The Irish don't demand any such thing. It's a mutually beneficial arrangement, and it ensures that Irish political independence from the UK doesn't negatively affect the opportunities for people on the neighbouring islands of Britain and Ireland by making it needlessly difficult for us to move between the two islands.
Why would we want to wreck that?
Coz the Irish are taking the fucking piss. They are now, theoretically, the third richest nation on earth. Why do we give them free movement to London and not more talented Brazilians, Bolivians and Bengalis?
Enough. Fuck off. Be European
: Wot @rpjs said: "You do know that those privileges are reciprocal for British citizens living in Ireland?"
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
The Normans, the Vikings, the Saxons, the Huguenots, even the Jews and the Romans and the generations of Britons since, the Victorians, the Georgians etc indeed even the Afro Caribbeans and the immigrants from South Asia did more to create modern Great Britain than the Irish did
You cannot tell the story of these islands, and thus this island, without the Irish. Big impact on early christianity here too, IIRC. I'm not sure what your problem is with the Irish that you want to cut them out of the tale.
Of course the Irish shaped Britain. As did a whole bunch of other nationalities. That still doesn't mean they should have a bunch of special privileges when they don't have a loyalty to Britain. I can understand letting them have special rights in Northern Ireland but it makes no sense in mainland GB.
You do know that those privileges are reciprocal for British citizens living in Ireland?
Sure, which makes it easier to swallow than Indians and Pakistanis voting here with no reciprocal rights. But it is still unbalanced because net migration is overwhelmingly in one direction. If you want to have a say in British governance, become British. A lot of Irish don't want to do that because they define their identities as being the antithesis of British as described below. Which is fine. But you shouldn't be able to influence British elections in that case.
Voting is for mugs. If you want to have a say in British governance, buy Boris wallpaper!
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
The Normans, the Vikings, the Saxons, the Huguenots, even the Jews and the Romans and the generations of Britons since, the Victorians, the Georgians etc indeed even the Afro Caribbeans and the immigrants from South Asia did more to create modern Great Britain than the Irish did
You cannot tell the story of these islands, and thus this island, without the Irish. Big impact on early christianity here too, IIRC. I'm not sure what your problem is with the Irish that you want to cut them out of the tale.
They had some influence but plenty of other groups had more.
The issue is the Irish have insisted on a hard border in the Irish Sea yet still demand to be part of a CTA with GB prioritising themselves over other European or Australian, Canadian or New Zealand migrants to the UK who we even still share the Queen with unlike them
The Irish don't demand any such thing. It's a mutually beneficial arrangement, and it ensures that Irish political independence from the UK doesn't negatively affect the opportunities for people on the neighbouring islands of Britain and Ireland by making it needlessly difficult for us to move between the two islands.
Why would we want to wreck that?
Until Dublin and the EU remove the Irish Sea border I agree with Leon, we could well end the CTA.
There is absolutely no reason why the Irish should have priority over migrants we share the Queen and Commonwealth with like Canadians, Australians or New Zealanders or those we share English with like India and the USA or other Europeans now. They can go via the same points system as everyone else.
A hard border in the Irish Sea leads to inevitable consequences even if they face more difficulty finding work in London
At the 2011 Indian Census, only 260,000 Indians spoke English as a first language (0.02%).
Especially as English-speakers who do NOT speak another language are included in the pseudo-logic behind fake history and bogus future.
The UK is immensely richer for its Irish heritage. I really struggle to understand this smaller and smaller conception of England.
It seems strange that Irish can vote though. Commonwealth citizens too. I’ve no idea why this is maintained, it isn’t reciprocal (and still wouldn’t make sense if it was).
It is reciprocal for British citizens resident in Ireland.
It's because we feel an affinity for them because of our close historical connections. It's a strength. Please don't trash things that are good about Britain.
Our turn for an audience with Zelenskyy tomorrow 🙂
He’s bringing a gift. Gifts will be exchanged.
His gift to us is he is still alive. Russia haven’t won, Ukraine not annexed.
He will ask for a no fly zone. If we are not prepared to give him that (but the numbers who would are growing by the day) we can’t just say no sorry, and be lost for words, what more have we got to announce to help him, tomorrow?
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
The Normans, the Vikings, the Saxons, the Huguenots, even the Jews and the Romans and the generations of Britons since, the Victorians, the Georgians etc indeed even the Afro Caribbeans and the immigrants from South Asia did more to create modern Great Britain than the Irish did
You cannot tell the story of these islands, and thus this island, without the Irish. Big impact on early christianity here too, IIRC. I'm not sure what your problem is with the Irish that you want to cut them out of the tale.
They had some influence but plenty of other groups had more.
The issue is the Irish have insisted on a hard border in the Irish Sea yet still demand to be part of a CTA with GB prioritising themselves over other European or Australian, Canadian or New Zealand migrants to the UK who we even still share the Queen with unlike them
The Irish don't demand any such thing. It's a mutually beneficial arrangement, and it ensures that Irish political independence from the UK doesn't negatively affect the opportunities for people on the neighbouring islands of Britain and Ireland by making it needlessly difficult for us to move between the two islands.
Why would we want to wreck that?
Until Dublin and the EU remove the Irish Sea border I agree with Leon, we could well end the CTA.
There is absolutely no reason why the Irish should have priority over migrants we share the Queen and Commonwealth with like Canadians, Australians or New Zealanders or those we share English with like India and the USA or other Europeans now. They can go via the same points system as everyone else.
A hard border in the Irish Sea leads to inevitable consequences even if they face more difficulty finding work in London
At the 2011 Indian Census, only 260,000 Indians spoke English as a first language (0.02%).
We don't have a CTA with India do we, in fact we don't have a CTA with any other nation but the Republic of Ireland.
It is the only nation exempt now from our points based immigration system despite the hard border in the Irish Sea Dublin and Brussels insisted on and despite the fact the Republic left the UK 100 years ago and got rid of the Queen as Head of State over 75 years ago.
As Aslan states there might be merit in keeping the CTA with NI but if Dublin wants a hard border with GB no reason its citizens should get free movement with GB still
*cough*
Isle of Man Guernsey Jersey
*cough*
We don't have a hard border with them and we share the Queen as Head of State with them, they are Crown dependencies, not fully independent nations
Yet tomorrow any British citizen can move to Ireland and live and work and buy property there with no restriction. They can’t do that in the Channel Islands or Isle of Man.
No one wants to go live in “Ireland”. It is a shit version of Scotland with bits of a Gaelic Liverpool.
It’s rubbish
That’s the point. Freedom of movement is tempting if you chuck in the algarve, Provence and the Cyclades. Ireland is basically a toilet. No one wants to go there
I have a feeling Flint Knapper weekly won't now be sending you there anytime soon....
I'm so tired of this. I'm in my 20s and my entire adult life has been consumed by bitter old Boomers trying to destroy the world before they die. Just fuck off and let us have a chance for once
Just count yourself damn lucky you did not have to make the sacrifices your great grandparents and great great grandparents had to make in WW1 and WW2 when they were your age to give you the freedoms you enjoy today.
You have never had to fight in a war and probably still will not have to even now
How was WW1 and WW2 for you, HYUFD? Do tell us about your sacrifices. ..
If I had lived 800 yards further up the road, and as a baby in my mother's arms under a steel table in Greater Manchester, I would have died with my family as Hitler's bomb crashed through the house roof killing the 6 occupants
Exactly BigG, some young people today don't know how lucky they are!
Pls don't get me started on generational warfare topics given how screwed we are because of boomers' selfishness.
Whinge, whinge, whinge, pathetic!
Putin - Boomer Zelenskyy - Gen X
That's it, I'm picking sides in this one, and I'm not even sorry.
I am surprised nobody has mentioned the obscure suggestion that a colony of Varangian English settled on the shore of the Black Sea after the Norman Invasion.
Something like that. I can’t find it on Google, but it’s definitely a thing.
Personally I am very doubtful that it actually existed, but it could be a top way to troll Putin if Zelenskyy were to say tomorrow to the Commons that after the war he’d consider leasing the area to the UK as a thank you.
Perhaps Crimea could be given to the British as a neutral power between the Ukrainians and the Russians.
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
The Normans, the Vikings, the Saxons, the Huguenots, even the Jews and the Romans and the generations of Britons since, the Victorians, the Georgians etc indeed even the Afro Caribbeans and the immigrants from South Asia did more to create modern Great Britain than the Irish did
You cannot tell the story of these islands, and thus this island, without the Irish. Big impact on early christianity here too, IIRC. I'm not sure what your problem is with the Irish that you want to cut them out of the tale.
They had some influence but plenty of other groups had more.
The issue is the Irish have insisted on a hard border in the Irish Sea yet still demand to be part of a CTA with GB prioritising themselves over other European or Australian, Canadian or New Zealand migrants to the UK who we even still share the Queen with unlike them
The Irish don't demand any such thing. It's a mutually beneficial arrangement, and it ensures that Irish political independence from the UK doesn't negatively affect the opportunities for people on the neighbouring islands of Britain and Ireland by making it needlessly difficult for us to move between the two islands.
Why would we want to wreck that?
Until Dublin and the EU remove the Irish Sea border I agree with Leon, we could well end the CTA.
There is absolutely no reason why the Irish should have priority over migrants we share the Queen and Commonwealth with like Canadians, Australians or New Zealanders or those we share English with like India and the USA or other Europeans now. They can go via the same points system as everyone else.
A hard border in the Irish Sea leads to inevitable consequences even if they face more difficulty finding work in London
At the 2011 Indian Census, only 260,000 Indians spoke English as a first language (0.02%).
We don't have a CTA with India do we, in fact we don't have a CTA with any other nation but the Republic of Ireland.
It is the only nation exempt now from our points based immigration system despite the hard border in the Irish Sea Dublin and Brussels insisted on and despite the fact the Republic left the UK 100 years ago and got rid of the Queen as Head of State over 75 years ago.
As Aslan states there might be merit in keeping the CTA with NI but if Dublin wants a hard border with GB no reason its citizens should get free movement with GB still
*cough*
Isle of Man Guernsey Jersey
*cough*
We don't have a hard border with them and we share the Queen as Head of State with them, they are Crown dependencies, not fully independent nations
Yet tomorrow any British citizen can move to Ireland and live and work and buy property there with no restriction. They can’t do that in the Channel Islands or Isle of Man.
No one wants to go live in “Ireland”. It is a shit version of Scotland with bits of a Gaelic Liverpool.
It’s rubbish
That’s the point. Freedom of movement is tempting if you chuck in the algarve, Provence and the Cyclades. Ireland is basically a toilet. No one wants to go there
Wait, where do you "go" if not in a toilet? Relatedly, does the guy in the flat below you really, really, really hate you?
The UK is immensely richer for its Irish heritage. I really struggle to understand this smaller and smaller conception of England.
It seems strange that Irish can vote though. Commonwealth citizens too. I’ve no idea why this is maintained, it isn’t reciprocal (and still wouldn’t make sense if it was).
It is reciprocal for British citizens resident in Ireland.
It's because we feel an affinity for them because of our close historical connections. It's a strength. Please don't trash things that are good about Britain.
There didn't seem to be much affinity when Varadkar was being as arsey as possible over the withdrawal negotiations.
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
The Normans, the Vikings, the Saxons, the Huguenots, even the Jews and the Romans and the generations of Britons since, the Victorians, the Georgians etc indeed even the Afro Caribbeans and the immigrants from South Asia did more to create modern Great Britain than the Irish did
You cannot tell the story of these islands, and thus this island, without the Irish. Big impact on early christianity here too, IIRC. I'm not sure what your problem is with the Irish that you want to cut them out of the tale.
They had some influence but plenty of other groups had more.
The issue is the Irish have insisted on a hard border in the Irish Sea yet still demand to be part of a CTA with GB prioritising themselves over other European or Australian, Canadian or New Zealand migrants to the UK who we even still share the Queen with unlike them
The Irish don't demand any such thing. It's a mutually beneficial arrangement, and it ensures that Irish political independence from the UK doesn't negatively affect the opportunities for people on the neighbouring islands of Britain and Ireland by making it needlessly difficult for us to move between the two islands.
Why would we want to wreck that?
Until Dublin and the EU remove the Irish Sea border I agree with Leon, we could well end the CTA.
There is absolutely no reason why the Irish should have priority over migrants we share the Queen and Commonwealth with like Canadians, Australians or New Zealanders or those we share English with like India and the USA or other Europeans now. They can go via the same points system as everyone else.
A hard border in the Irish Sea leads to inevitable consequences even if they face more difficulty finding work in London
At the 2011 Indian Census, only 260,000 Indians spoke English as a first language (0.02%).
We don't have a CTA with India do we, in fact we don't have a CTA with any other nation but the Republic of Ireland.
It is the only nation exempt now from our points based immigration system despite the hard border in the Irish Sea Dublin and Brussels insisted on and despite the fact the Republic left the UK 100 years ago and got rid of the Queen as Head of State over 75 years ago.
As Aslan states there might be merit in keeping the CTA with NI but if Dublin wants a hard border with GB no reason its citizens should get free movement with GB still
*cough*
Isle of Man Guernsey Jersey
*cough*
We don't have a hard border with them and we share the Queen as Head of State with them, they are Crown dependencies, not fully independent nations
Yet tomorrow any British citizen can move to Ireland and live and work and buy property there with no restriction. They can’t do that in the Channel Islands or Isle of Man.
No one wants to go live in “Ireland”. It is a shit version of Scotland with bits of a Gaelic Liverpool.
It’s rubbish
That’s the point. Freedom of movement is tempting if you chuck in the algarve, Provence and the Cyclades. Ireland is basically a toilet. No one wants to go there
According to the 2016 Irish Census, 103,000 UK Citizens were living in the Republic.
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
The Normans, the Vikings, the Saxons, the Huguenots, even the Jews and the Romans and the generations of Britons since, the Victorians, the Georgians etc indeed even the Afro Caribbeans and the immigrants from South Asia did more to create modern Great Britain than the Irish did
You cannot tell the story of these islands, and thus this island, without the Irish. Big impact on early christianity here too, IIRC. I'm not sure what your problem is with the Irish that you want to cut them out of the tale.
They had some influence but plenty of other groups had more.
The issue is the Irish have insisted on a hard border in the Irish Sea yet still demand to be part of a CTA with GB prioritising themselves over other European or Australian, Canadian or New Zealand migrants to the UK who we even still share the Queen with unlike them
The Irish don't demand any such thing. It's a mutually beneficial arrangement, and it ensures that Irish political independence from the UK doesn't negatively affect the opportunities for people on the neighbouring islands of Britain and Ireland by making it needlessly difficult for us to move between the two islands.
Why would we want to wreck that?
Coz the Irish are taking the fucking piss. They are now, theoretically, the third richest nation on earth. Why do we give them free movement to London and not more talented Brazilians, Bolivians and Bengalis?
Enough. Fuck off. Be European
Isn't it then an advantage for us to have free movement with the third richest nation on earth?
Why is it always the case that free movement between the UK and elsewhere is always seen as a burden on the UK, rather than an opportunity?
I can just about understand the argument with the EU, where most Europeans had some knowledge of English, but few Brits had knowledge of French, or German or Polish, and so there was a language imbalance - but that doesn't apply to the Irish.
It's pathological to want to cut the country off from the outside world into a smaller and smaller area, all the while insisting that we're an outward-looking global country.
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
The Normans, the Vikings, the Saxons, the Huguenots, even the Jews and the Romans and the generations of Britons since, the Victorians, the Georgians etc indeed even the Afro Caribbeans and the immigrants from South Asia did more to create modern Great Britain than the Irish did
You cannot tell the story of these islands, and thus this island, without the Irish. Big impact on early christianity here too, IIRC. I'm not sure what your problem is with the Irish that you want to cut them out of the tale.
They had some influence but plenty of other groups had more.
The issue is the Irish have insisted on a hard border in the Irish Sea yet still demand to be part of a CTA with GB prioritising themselves over other European or Australian, Canadian or New Zealand migrants to the UK who we even still share the Queen with unlike them
The Irish don't demand any such thing. It's a mutually beneficial arrangement, and it ensures that Irish political independence from the UK doesn't negatively affect the opportunities for people on the neighbouring islands of Britain and Ireland by making it needlessly difficult for us to move between the two islands.
Why would we want to wreck that?
Until Dublin and the EU remove the Irish Sea border I agree with Leon, we could well end the CTA.
There is absolutely no reason why the Irish should have priority over migrants we share the Queen and Commonwealth with like Canadians, Australians or New Zealanders or those we share English with like India and the USA or other Europeans now. They can go via the same points system as everyone else.
A hard border in the Irish Sea leads to inevitable consequences even if they face more difficulty finding work in London
At the 2011 Indian Census, only 260,000 Indians spoke English as a first language (0.02%).
We don't have a CTA with India do we, in fact we don't have a CTA with any other nation but the Republic of Ireland.
It is the only nation exempt now from our points based immigration system despite the hard border in the Irish Sea Dublin and Brussels insisted on and despite the fact the Republic left the UK 100 years ago and got rid of the Queen as Head of State over 75 years ago.
As Aslan states there might be merit in keeping the CTA with NI but if Dublin wants a hard border with GB no reason its citizens should get free movement with GB still
*cough*
Isle of Man Guernsey Jersey
*cough*
We don't have a hard border with them and we share the Queen as Head of State with them, they are Crown dependencies, not fully independent nations
Yet tomorrow any British citizen can move to Ireland and live and work and buy property there with no restriction. They can’t do that in the Channel Islands or Isle of Man.
No one wants to go live in “Ireland”. It is a shit version of Scotland with bits of a Gaelic Liverpool.
It’s rubbish
That’s the point. Freedom of movement is tempting if you chuck in the algarve, Provence and the Cyclades. Ireland is basically a toilet. No one wants to go there
Wait, where do you "go" if not in a toilet? Relatedly, does the guy in the flat below you really, really, really hate you?
Hands up who done the UK visit to Republic of Ireland must do, kiss the Blarney Stone 💋
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
The Normans, the Vikings, the Saxons, the Huguenots, even the Jews and the Romans and the generations of Britons since, the Victorians, the Georgians etc indeed even the Afro Caribbeans and the immigrants from South Asia did more to create modern Great Britain than the Irish did
You cannot tell the story of these islands, and thus this island, without the Irish. Big impact on early christianity here too, IIRC. I'm not sure what your problem is with the Irish that you want to cut them out of the tale.
They had some influence but plenty of other groups had more.
The issue is the Irish have insisted on a hard border in the Irish Sea yet still demand to be part of a CTA with GB prioritising themselves over other European or Australian, Canadian or New Zealand migrants to the UK who we even still share the Queen with unlike them
The Irish don't demand any such thing. It's a mutually beneficial arrangement, and it ensures that Irish political independence from the UK doesn't negatively affect the opportunities for people on the neighbouring islands of Britain and Ireland by making it needlessly difficult for us to move between the two islands.
Why would we want to wreck that?
Coz the Irish are taking the fucking piss. They are now, theoretically, the third richest nation on earth. Why do we give them free movement to London and not more talented Brazilians, Bolivians and Bengalis?
Enough. Fuck off. Be European
Isn't it then an advantage for us to have free movement with the third richest nation on earth?
Why is it always the case that free movement between the UK and elsewhere is always seen as a burden on the UK, rather than an opportunity?
I can just about understand the argument with the EU, where most Europeans had some knowledge of English, but few Brits had knowledge of French, or German or Polish, and so there was a language imbalance - but that doesn't apply to the Irish.
It's pathological to want to cut the country off from the outside world into a smaller and smaller area, all the while insisting that we're an outward-looking global country.
It's all fun and games until the Notting Hill militia stop you from crossing from Camden and you suddenly realise your next holiday won't be to Thailand but will be spent eating chicken sandwiches on a bench facing Whittington Hospital.
The UK is immensely richer for its Irish heritage. I really struggle to understand this smaller and smaller conception of England.
It seems strange that Irish can vote though. Commonwealth citizens too. I’ve no idea why this is maintained, it isn’t reciprocal (and still wouldn’t make sense if it was).
It is reciprocal for British citizens resident in Ireland.
It's because we feel an affinity for them because of our close historical connections. It's a strength. Please don't trash things that are good about Britain.
There didn't seem to be much affinity when Varadkar was being as arsey as possible over the withdrawal negotiations.
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
The Normans, the Vikings, the Saxons, the Huguenots, even the Jews and the Romans and the generations of Britons since, the Victorians, the Georgians etc indeed even the Afro Caribbeans and the immigrants from South Asia did more to create modern Great Britain than the Irish did
You cannot tell the story of these islands, and thus this island, without the Irish. Big impact on early christianity here too, IIRC. I'm not sure what your problem is with the Irish that you want to cut them out of the tale.
They had some influence but plenty of other groups had more.
The issue is the Irish have insisted on a hard border in the Irish Sea yet still demand to be part of a CTA with GB prioritising themselves over other European or Australian, Canadian or New Zealand migrants to the UK who we even still share the Queen with unlike them
The Irish don't demand any such thing. It's a mutually beneficial arrangement, and it ensures that Irish political independence from the UK doesn't negatively affect the opportunities for people on the neighbouring islands of Britain and Ireland by making it needlessly difficult for us to move between the two islands.
Why would we want to wreck that?
Until Dublin and the EU remove the Irish Sea border I agree with Leon, we could well end the CTA.
There is absolutely no reason why the Irish should have priority over migrants we share the Queen and Commonwealth with like Canadians, Australians or New Zealanders or those we share English with like India and the USA or other Europeans now. They can go via the same points system as everyone else.
A hard border in the Irish Sea leads to inevitable consequences even if they face more difficulty finding work in London
At the 2011 Indian Census, only 260,000 Indians spoke English as a first language (0.02%).
We don't have a CTA with India do we, in fact we don't have a CTA with any other nation but the Republic of Ireland.
It is the only nation exempt now from our points based immigration system despite the hard border in the Irish Sea Dublin and Brussels insisted on and despite the fact the Republic left the UK 100 years ago and got rid of the Queen as Head of State over 75 years ago.
As Aslan states there might be merit in keeping the CTA with NI but if Dublin wants a hard border with GB no reason its citizens should get free movement with GB still
*cough*
Isle of Man Guernsey Jersey
*cough*
We don't have a hard border with them and we share the Queen as Head of State with them, they are Crown dependencies, not fully independent nations
Yet tomorrow any British citizen can move to Ireland and live and work and buy property there with no restriction. They can’t do that in the Channel Islands or Isle of Man.
No one wants to go live in “Ireland”. It is a shit version of Scotland with bits of a Gaelic Liverpool.
It’s rubbish
That’s the point. Freedom of movement is tempting if you chuck in the algarve, Provence and the Cyclades. Ireland is basically a toilet. No one wants to go there
Wait, where do you "go" if not in a toilet? Relatedly, does the guy in the flat below you really, really, really hate you?
My neighbours below are a delightful young mixed race couple. I confess I am occasionally disturbed by her gurgling phone calls. She is altogether too happy, blithe, innocent, and loudly cheerful. And a bit sexy
But then I remember what I must have been like for my older neighbours. 24 hour parties. Monstrous amounts of drugs. Absolute mayhem. And I give thanks for having such civilised and genuinely polite young Londoners as my Camden Co-habitants
I’ve sarcastically been a bit mean about the younger generation, on this thread, but in reality they seem much nicer if less audacious than my cohort. God bless them
Exc: Ministers have raised concerns about Ireland’s open-door policy to Ukrainian refugees, arguing it creates UK security risk.
Dublin joined EU-wide scheme welcoming refugees for 3 years, via which Ukrainians can travel to UK (Common Travel Area) without biometric checks
Govt source: “Ireland has basically opened the door to everyone in Ukraine, which creates a problem due to the CTA.
“We've seen before with migrants from Albania that they hv come through Dublin, into Belfast & across to the mainland to L'pool. That's created a drug cartel route
Source adds: “It's the Home Office that will get the blame if in three or fives’ years time there are problems with those who come. That’s why the security checks have to be done carefully now.”
Ireland has said it expects to welcome more than 100,000 Ukrainian refugees
100 years after Irish independence, I do wonder why the Irish still get such privileges in the UK. Even more ridiculous than CTA is Irish voting. I have yet to meet an Irish immigrant to the UK that ever started seeing themselves as British, so they are bad at integrating. And when they vote, they usually do so for the interests of Ireland not the UK.
The Normans, the Vikings, the Saxons, the Huguenots, even the Jews and the Romans and the generations of Britons since, the Victorians, the Georgians etc indeed even the Afro Caribbeans and the immigrants from South Asia did more to create modern Great Britain than the Irish did
You cannot tell the story of these islands, and thus this island, without the Irish. Big impact on early christianity here too, IIRC. I'm not sure what your problem is with the Irish that you want to cut them out of the tale.
They had some influence but plenty of other groups had more.
The issue is the Irish have insisted on a hard border in the Irish Sea yet still demand to be part of a CTA with GB prioritising themselves over other European or Australian, Canadian or New Zealand migrants to the UK who we even still share the Queen with unlike them
The Irish don't demand any such thing. It's a mutually beneficial arrangement, and it ensures that Irish political independence from the UK doesn't negatively affect the opportunities for people on the neighbouring islands of Britain and Ireland by making it needlessly difficult for us to move between the two islands.
Why would we want to wreck that?
Coz the Irish are taking the fucking piss. They are now, theoretically, the third richest nation on earth. Why do we give them free movement to London and not more talented Brazilians, Bolivians and Bengalis?
Enough. Fuck off. Be European
Isn't it then an advantage for us to have free movement with the third richest nation on earth?
Why is it always the case that free movement between the UK and elsewhere is always seen as a burden on the UK, rather than an opportunity?
I can just about understand the argument with the EU, where most Europeans had some knowledge of English, but few Brits had knowledge of French, or German or Polish, and so there was a language imbalance - but that doesn't apply to the Irish.
It's pathological to want to cut the country off from the outside world into a smaller and smaller area, all the while insisting that we're an outward-looking global country.
Ireland isn't really the third richest nation on Earth. That is all accounting gimmicks. Look at median income instead and you will see Ireland is poorer than the UK.
Ireland should have agreed a 'technical solution'; it was clearly the best option for all on these isles. However there's a lot of chucking the baby out with the bathwater, then making sure beyond all doubt the baby is slain going on tonight from certain quarters.
Re: previous palaver re: propriety of "Boris" (onomatologically speaking) on thing that has struck me, is the paucity of the once-frequent "BoJo". Including as used by yours truly.
UK severing free passage with RI, makes as much sense in British national interest, as RI leaving the Commonwealth did in Irish national interest. Zero in both cases. Or rather less.
Given Ire is a non-aligned nation with no notable defence forces and a land border with us you'd have to be on the Russian payroll, or just plain stupid to advocate loosening links. The UK needs to keep Ireland close to make sure that our national defence is secure.
Ireland should have agreed a 'technical solution'; it was clearly the best option for all on these isles. However there's a lot of chucking the baby out with the bathwater, then making sure beyond all doubt the baby is slain going on tonight from certain quarters.
UK severing free passage with RI, makes as much sense in British national interest, as RI leaving the Commonwealth did in Irish national interest. Zero in both cases. Or rather less.
Given Ire is a non-aligned nation with no notable defence forces and a land border with us you'd have to be on the Russian payroll, or just plain stupid to advocate loosening links. The UK needs to keep Ireland close to make sure that our national defence is secure.
True enough. Though does appear that biting off one's nose to spite one's face, is becoming favorite Littlest Englander party trick.
For the record, I do NOT include in this ending Irish voting rights in UK elections if non-reciprocal, UK has every right to do that. I'm NOT advocating it either, assuming there may be good reasons NOT to disenfranchise existing voters. Though reckon that their continued inclusion all these years has also NOT been exactly apolitical? Seem to recall that for many years Irish voters in UK tended to vote Labour?
Maybe a downer this post, unless you have some cheery answers
*oil, gas, Big Macs
The UK appear to be announcing all sorts of plans for extra drilling of North sea for Gas and Oil tonight. It seems the markets were spooked today by the push, largely from US, to stop paying Putin for Gas and Oil. Which does make sense, why punish breadline Russians when at same time we are pouring money into the Kremlin?
With the EU saying to UK, hurry up and pillage your Oligarchs, US saying to EU, our consumers are happy to be Russian free on energy use hurry up and do the same - it’s obvious not everyone is exposed in the same way. Whilst we are cancelling the Russian peoples access to Premiership football and shaming McDonalds for still trading there, European governments still handing Putin’s government the money to stay afloat and fund his war. When can we turn off our supply of good money straight into Putin’s regime?
If McDonalds shut, that’s some low paid people who don’t have much say in sane government in Kremlin out of a job. Are we now just picking low hanging fruit to make ourselves feel better? The right way to do this sanctioning is target the evil regime, not the poor everyday Russian people who we actually want on our side?
How soon can EU and UK be less dependent on paying Putin, without ravaged by supply and price issues? I fear the answer is much more than weeks isn’t it?
The UK is not dependent on paying Putin, as less than 5% of our gas comes from Russia.
Ireland should have agreed a 'technical solution'; it was clearly the best option for all on these isles. However there's a lot of chucking the baby out with the bathwater, then making sure beyond all doubt the baby is slain going on tonight from certain quarters.
Pb is normally a fount of knowledge, but on Northern Ireland trade it is sadly ignorant.
The UK and the EU (Ireland) agreed to implement a "smart border" with a trusted trader programme. The current arrangement - i.e. with a border in the North Sea - is meant to be transitional.
In the initial post Brexit period, there was a lot of (largely justifiable) concern that the EU was not going to implement the "smart border". This led to the UK government (rightly) throwing their toys out the pram and threatening to invoke Article 16.
The timetable is for reconciliation to be agreed by the end of this year, and then for IT services firms to bid on implementation in early 2023. In theory, things are supposed to be live by end 2023, but I suspect that it will end up being delayed somewhat (largely because Accenture and Cap Gemini are shit).
Nevertheless, Northern Ireland is heading towards what was always envisaged -a proper technical solution.
Maybe a downer this post, unless you have some cheery answers
*oil, gas, Big Macs
The UK appear to be announcing all sorts of plans for extra drilling of North sea for Gas and Oil tonight. It seems the markets were spooked today by the push, largely from US, to stop paying Putin for Gas and Oil. Which does make sense, why punish breadline Russians when at same time we are pouring money into the Kremlin?
With the EU saying to UK, hurry up and pillage your Oligarchs, US saying to EU, our consumers are happy to be Russian free on energy use hurry up and do the same - it’s obvious not everyone is exposed in the same way. Whilst we are cancelling the Russian peoples access to Premiership football and shaming McDonalds for still trading there, European governments still handing Putin’s government the money to stay afloat and fund his war. When can we turn off our supply of good money straight into Putin’s regime?
If McDonalds shut, that’s some low paid people who don’t have much say in sane government in Kremlin out of a job. Are we now just picking low hanging fruit to make ourselves feel better? The right way to do this sanctioning is target the evil regime, not the poor everyday Russian people who we actually want on our side?
How soon can EU and UK be less dependent on paying Putin, without ravaged by supply and price issues? I fear the answer is much more than weeks isn’t it?
The UK is not dependent on paying Putin, as less than 5% of our gas comes from Russia.
If Germany or Italy stops buys Russian oil, then they compete with us for Mexican or Saudi Arabian oil.
We both get hit equally.
Gas is more complex, but there we are incredibly dependent on spot LNG cargoes. If we're competing with Germany for them... well, we'll both be hit equally.
Ireland should have agreed a 'technical solution'; it was clearly the best option for all on these isles. However there's a lot of chucking the baby out with the bathwater, then making sure beyond all doubt the baby is slain going on tonight from certain quarters.
Pb is normally a fount of knowledge, but on Northern Ireland trade it is sadly ignorant.
The UK and the EU (Ireland) agreed to implement a "smart border" with a trusted trader programme. The current arrangement - i.e. with a border in the North Sea - is meant to be transitional.
In the initial post Brexit period, there was a lot of (largely justifiable) concern that the EU was not going to implement the "smart border". This led to the UK government (rightly) throwing their toys out the pram and threatening to invoke Article 16.
The timetable is for reconciliation to be agreed by the end of this year, and then for IT services firms to bid on implementation in early 2023. In theory, things are supposed to be live by end 2023, but I suspect that it will end up being delayed somewhat (largely because Accenture and Cap Gemini are shit).
Nevertheless, Northern Ireland is heading towards what was always envisaged -a proper technical solution….
Maybe a downer this post, unless you have some cheery answers
*oil, gas, Big Macs
The UK appear to be announcing all sorts of plans for extra drilling of North sea for Gas and Oil tonight. It seems the markets were spooked today by the push, largely from US, to stop paying Putin for Gas and Oil. Which does make sense, why punish breadline Russians when at same time we are pouring money into the Kremlin?
With the EU saying to UK, hurry up and pillage your Oligarchs, US saying to EU, our consumers are happy to be Russian free on energy use hurry up and do the same - it’s obvious not everyone is exposed in the same way. Whilst we are cancelling the Russian peoples access to Premiership football and shaming McDonalds for still trading there, European governments still handing Putin’s government the money to stay afloat and fund his war. When can we turn off our supply of good money straight into Putin’s regime?
If McDonalds shut, that’s some low paid people who don’t have much say in sane government in Kremlin out of a job. Are we now just picking low hanging fruit to make ourselves feel better? The right way to do this sanctioning is target the evil regime, not the poor everyday Russian people who we actually want on our side?
How soon can EU and UK be less dependent on paying Putin, without ravaged by supply and price issues? I fear the answer is much more than weeks isn’t it?
The UK is not dependent on paying Putin, as less than 5% of our gas comes from Russia.
If Germany or Italy stops buys Russian oil, then they compete with us for Mexican or Saudi Arabian oil.
We both get hit equally.
Gas is more complex, but there we are incredibly dependent on spot LNG cargoes. If we're competing with Germany for them... well, we'll both be hit equally.
2 - You need to take account of relative amounts of imports to identify potential "hurt".
2020 Imports of Oil by Germany: 610 million barrels 2020 Imports of Oil by UK: 330 million barrels 2020 Imports of Gas by Germany: 155 million cubic m 2020 Imports of Gas by UK: 44 million cubic m
The overall problem here is much smaller than in Germany. Not helped by their larger manufacturing base.
(Note: obvs both affected by Corona as 2020 figures, but that does not change the point.)
Retired General Sir Chris Deverell says NATO needs to install a No Fly Zone, saying it's not a question of if we begin fighting Putin but when.
I believe he may be right. If Putin isn't winning I suspect he will try to escalate this anyway. We may be kidding ourselves to think this is containable.
Maybe a downer this post, unless you have some cheery answers
*oil, gas, Big Macs
The UK appear to be announcing all sorts of plans for extra drilling of North sea for Gas and Oil tonight. It seems the markets were spooked today by the push, largely from US, to stop paying Putin for Gas and Oil. Which does make sense, why punish breadline Russians when at same time we are pouring money into the Kremlin?
With the EU saying to UK, hurry up and pillage your Oligarchs, US saying to EU, our consumers are happy to be Russian free on energy use hurry up and do the same - it’s obvious not everyone is exposed in the same way. Whilst we are cancelling the Russian peoples access to Premiership football and shaming McDonalds for still trading there, European governments still handing Putin’s government the money to stay afloat and fund his war. When can we turn off our supply of good money straight into Putin’s regime?
If McDonalds shut, that’s some low paid people who don’t have much say in sane government in Kremlin out of a job. Are we now just picking low hanging fruit to make ourselves feel better? The right way to do this sanctioning is target the evil regime, not the poor everyday Russian people who we actually want on our side?
How soon can EU and UK be less dependent on paying Putin, without ravaged by supply and price issues? I fear the answer is much more than weeks isn’t it?
The UK is not dependent on paying Putin, as less than 5% of our gas comes from Russia.
If Germany or Italy stops buys Russian oil, then they compete with us for Mexican or Saudi Arabian oil.
We both get hit equally.
Gas is more complex, but there we are incredibly dependent on spot LNG cargoes. If we're competing with Germany for them... well, we'll both be hit equally.
2 - You need to take account of relative amounts of imports to identify potential "hurt".
2020 Imports of Oil by Germany: 610 million barrels 2020 Imports of Oil by UK: 330 million barrels 2020 Imports of Gas by Germany: 155 million cubic m 2020 Imports of Gas by UK: 44 million cubic m
The overall problem here is much smaller than in Germany. Not helped by their larger manufacturing base.
(Note: obvs both affected by Corona as 2020 figures, but that does not change the point.)
Maybe a downer this post, unless you have some cheery answers
*oil, gas, Big Macs
The UK appear to be announcing all sorts of plans for extra drilling of North sea for Gas and Oil tonight. It seems the markets were spooked today by the push, largely from US, to stop paying Putin for Gas and Oil. Which does make sense, why punish breadline Russians when at same time we are pouring money into the Kremlin?
With the EU saying to UK, hurry up and pillage your Oligarchs, US saying to EU, our consumers are happy to be Russian free on energy use hurry up and do the same - it’s obvious not everyone is exposed in the same way. Whilst we are cancelling the Russian peoples access to Premiership football and shaming McDonalds for still trading there, European governments still handing Putin’s government the money to stay afloat and fund his war. When can we turn off our supply of good money straight into Putin’s regime?
If McDonalds shut, that’s some low paid people who don’t have much say in sane government in Kremlin out of a job. Are we now just picking low hanging fruit to make ourselves feel better? The right way to do this sanctioning is target the evil regime, not the poor everyday Russian people who we actually want on our side?
How soon can EU and UK be less dependent on paying Putin, without ravaged by supply and price issues? I fear the answer is much more than weeks isn’t it?
The UK is not dependent on paying Putin, as less than 5% of our gas comes from Russia.
If Germany or Italy stops buys Russian oil, then they compete with us for Mexican or Saudi Arabian oil.
We both get hit equally.
Gas is more complex, but there we are incredibly dependent on spot LNG cargoes. If we're competing with Germany for them... well, we'll both be hit equally.
2 - You need to take account of relative amounts of imports to identify potential "hurt".
2020 Imports of Oil by Germany: 610 million barrels 2020 Imports of Oil by UK: 330 million barrels 2020 Imports of Gas by Germany: 155 million cubic m 2020 Imports of Gas by UK: 44 million cubic m
The overall problem here is much smaller than in Germany. Not helped by their larger manufacturing base.
(Note: obvs both affected by Corona as 2020 figures, but that does not change the point.)
I'm sure that data is completely correct, but you're kinda missing my point.
Let's imagine that there were two sources of gas in the world, Russia and the USA.
And let us imagine that there were two buyers of gas: Germany and the UK.
At the beginning of the exercise, Germany buys all their gas from Russia, and the UK buys all theirs from the USA.
One day, Russia falls out of favour and Germany decides to not buy from them again. Big problem for Germany, not for anyone else, right?
No.
The reality is that - unless the US is locked in by a long-term supply contract - that it will sell to the highest bidder.
So, that means that both the UK and Germany want to buy US gas and no-one wants to buy Russian gas.
The price of gas trebles for Germany and the UK, the US makes out like a bandit, and Russia is fucked.
In other words, the US will increase the price they sell gas at. They have no obligation to us. It is simply that we were the customer. Only now there are two customers.
On Ukraine - I missed this 'deal', but my instinct is that 'peace' is only going to be achieved if Russia are completely beaten. Otherwise we will quickly be in the same place again.
Maybe a downer this post, unless you have some cheery answers
*oil, gas, Big Macs
The UK appear to be announcing all sorts of plans for extra drilling of North sea for Gas and Oil tonight. It seems the markets were spooked today by the push, largely from US, to stop paying Putin for Gas and Oil. Which does make sense, why punish breadline Russians when at same time we are pouring money into the Kremlin?
With the EU saying to UK, hurry up and pillage your Oligarchs, US saying to EU, our consumers are happy to be Russian free on energy use hurry up and do the same - it’s obvious not everyone is exposed in the same way. Whilst we are cancelling the Russian peoples access to Premiership football and shaming McDonalds for still trading there, European governments still handing Putin’s government the money to stay afloat and fund his war. When can we turn off our supply of good money straight into Putin’s regime?
If McDonalds shut, that’s some low paid people who don’t have much say in sane government in Kremlin out of a job. Are we now just picking low hanging fruit to make ourselves feel better? The right way to do this sanctioning is target the evil regime, not the poor everyday Russian people who we actually want on our side?
How soon can EU and UK be less dependent on paying Putin, without ravaged by supply and price issues? I fear the answer is much more than weeks isn’t it?
The UK is not dependent on paying Putin, as less than 5% of our gas comes from Russia.
If Germany or Italy stops buys Russian oil, then they compete with us for Mexican or Saudi Arabian oil.
We both get hit equally.
Gas is more complex, but there we are incredibly dependent on spot LNG cargoes. If we're competing with Germany for them... well, we'll both be hit equally.
2 - You need to take account of relative amounts of imports to identify potential "hurt".
2020 Imports of Oil by Germany: 610 million barrels 2020 Imports of Oil by UK: 330 million barrels 2020 Imports of Gas by Germany: 155 million cubic m 2020 Imports of Gas by UK: 44 million cubic m
The overall problem here is much smaller than in Germany. Not helped by their larger manufacturing base.
(Note: obvs both affected by Corona as 2020 figures, but that does not change the point.)
I'm sure that data is completely correct, but you're kinda missing my point.
Let's imagine that there were two sources of gas in the world, Russia and the USA.
And let us imagine that there were two buyers of gas: Germany and the UK.
At the beginning of the exercise, Germany buys all their gas from Russia, and the UK buys all theirs from the USA.
One day, Russia falls out of favour and Germany decides to not buy from them again. Big problem for Germany, not for anyone else, right?
No.
The reality is that - unless the US is locked in by a long-term supply contract - that it will sell to the highest bidder.
So, that means that both the UK and Germany want to buy US gas and no-one wants to buy Russian gas.
The price of gas trebles for Germany and the UK, the US makes out like a bandit, and Russia is fucked.
In other words, the US will increase the price they sell gas at. They have no obligation to us. It is simply that we were the customer. Only now there are two customers.
Thanks for the reply.
I agree with your point, and was just adding some context.
One thing I don't know is whether DE actually has any capacity to pivot away from Russian gas, given the absence of LNG import terminals there.
How extensive and below capacity is the cross border gas grid within mainland Europe?
Is there capacity to increase imports and transfer to DE via pipelines?
I am surprised nobody has mentioned the obscure suggestion that a colony of Varangian English settled on the shore of the Black Sea after the Norman Invasion.
Something like that. I can’t find it on Google, but it’s definitely a thing.
Perhaps we could have that bit.
I think that was one of the tidbits mentioned in The Last King English King by Julian Rathbone. A truly wondrous book.
"According to the recently discovered Chronicon universale anonymi Laudunensis, a group of English notables immigrated to Byzantium in 235 ships, reaching Constantinople in 1075. Some 4350 of the emigrants and their families remained in Constantinople in imperial service, while a majority of the refugees sailed to a place called Domapia, six days’ journey from Byzantium, conquered it and renamed it Nova Anglia (New England)."
Also, this bit may be of use to Ukranians needing to cite family links when applying for UK visas: "For example, ties between the Kievan Rus’ and England were not unknown. The exiled Gyda, daughter of Harold II Godwinson, married Kievan Prince Vladimir Monomakh..."
Its quite striking how people moved around a lot, and often vast distances in olden times, intermarrying and living new lives. The good old days?
Maybe a downer this post, unless you have some cheery answers
*oil, gas, Big Macs
The UK appear to be announcing all sorts of plans for extra drilling of North sea for Gas and Oil tonight. It seems the markets were spooked today by the push, largely from US, to stop paying Putin for Gas and Oil. Which does make sense, why punish breadline Russians when at same time we are pouring money into the Kremlin?
With the EU saying to UK, hurry up and pillage your Oligarchs, US saying to EU, our consumers are happy to be Russian free on energy use hurry up and do the same - it’s obvious not everyone is exposed in the same way. Whilst we are cancelling the Russian peoples access to Premiership football and shaming McDonalds for still trading there, European governments still handing Putin’s government the money to stay afloat and fund his war. When can we turn off our supply of good money straight into Putin’s regime?
If McDonalds shut, that’s some low paid people who don’t have much say in sane government in Kremlin out of a job. Are we now just picking low hanging fruit to make ourselves feel better? The right way to do this sanctioning is target the evil regime, not the poor everyday Russian people who we actually want on our side?
How soon can EU and UK be less dependent on paying Putin, without ravaged by supply and price issues? I fear the answer is much more than weeks isn’t it?
The UK is not dependent on paying Putin, as less than 5% of our gas comes from Russia.
If Germany or Italy stops buys Russian oil, then they compete with us for Mexican or Saudi Arabian oil.
We both get hit equally.
Gas is more complex, but there we are incredibly dependent on spot LNG cargoes. If we're competing with Germany for them... well, we'll both be hit equally.
2 - You need to take account of relative amounts of imports to identify potential "hurt".
2020 Imports of Oil by Germany: 610 million barrels 2020 Imports of Oil by UK: 330 million barrels 2020 Imports of Gas by Germany: 155 million cubic m 2020 Imports of Gas by UK: 44 million cubic m
The overall problem here is much smaller than in Germany. Not helped by their larger manufacturing base.
(Note: obvs both affected by Corona as 2020 figures, but that does not change the point.)
I'm sure that data is completely correct, but you're kinda missing my point.
Let's imagine that there were two sources of gas in the world, Russia and the USA.
And let us imagine that there were two buyers of gas: Germany and the UK.
At the beginning of the exercise, Germany buys all their gas from Russia, and the UK buys all theirs from the USA.
One day, Russia falls out of favour and Germany decides to not buy from them again. Big problem for Germany, not for anyone else, right?
No.
The reality is that - unless the US is locked in by a long-term supply contract - that it will sell to the highest bidder.
So, that means that both the UK and Germany want to buy US gas and no-one wants to buy Russian gas.
The price of gas trebles for Germany and the UK, the US makes out like a bandit, and Russia is fucked.
In other words, the US will increase the price they sell gas at. They have no obligation to us. It is simply that we were the customer. Only now there are two customers.
Gas seems cheap as chips in the USA, and costs a fortune in Europe now
Maybe a downer this post, unless you have some cheery answers
*oil, gas, Big Macs
The UK appear to be announcing all sorts of plans for extra drilling of North sea for Gas and Oil tonight. It seems the markets were spooked today by the push, largely from US, to stop paying Putin for Gas and Oil. Which does make sense, why punish breadline Russians when at same time we are pouring money into the Kremlin?
With the EU saying to UK, hurry up and pillage your Oligarchs, US saying to EU, our consumers are happy to be Russian free on energy use hurry up and do the same - it’s obvious not everyone is exposed in the same way. Whilst we are cancelling the Russian peoples access to Premiership football and shaming McDonalds for still trading there, European governments still handing Putin’s government the money to stay afloat and fund his war. When can we turn off our supply of good money straight into Putin’s regime?
If McDonalds shut, that’s some low paid people who don’t have much say in sane government in Kremlin out of a job. Are we now just picking low hanging fruit to make ourselves feel better? The right way to do this sanctioning is target the evil regime, not the poor everyday Russian people who we actually want on our side?
How soon can EU and UK be less dependent on paying Putin, without ravaged by supply and price issues? I fear the answer is much more than weeks isn’t it?
The UK is not dependent on paying Putin, as less than 5% of our gas comes from Russia.
If Germany or Italy stops buys Russian oil, then they compete with us for Mexican or Saudi Arabian oil.
We both get hit equally.
Gas is more complex, but there we are incredibly dependent on spot LNG cargoes. If we're competing with Germany for them... well, we'll both be hit equally.
2 - You need to take account of relative amounts of imports to identify potential "hurt".
2020 Imports of Oil by Germany: 610 million barrels 2020 Imports of Oil by UK: 330 million barrels 2020 Imports of Gas by Germany: 155 million cubic m 2020 Imports of Gas by UK: 44 million cubic m
The overall problem here is much smaller than in Germany. Not helped by their larger manufacturing base.
(Note: obvs both affected by Corona as 2020 figures, but that does not change the point.)
I'm sure that data is completely correct, but you're kinda missing my point.
Let's imagine that there were two sources of gas in the world, Russia and the USA.
And let us imagine that there were two buyers of gas: Germany and the UK.
At the beginning of the exercise, Germany buys all their gas from Russia, and the UK buys all theirs from the USA.
One day, Russia falls out of favour and Germany decides to not buy from them again. Big problem for Germany, not for anyone else, right?
No.
The reality is that - unless the US is locked in by a long-term supply contract - that it will sell to the highest bidder.
So, that means that both the UK and Germany want to buy US gas and no-one wants to buy Russian gas.
The price of gas trebles for Germany and the UK, the US makes out like a bandit, and Russia is fucked.
In other words, the US will increase the price they sell gas at. They have no obligation to us. It is simply that we were the customer. Only now there are two customers.
Thanks for the reply.
I agree with your point, and was just adding some context.
One thing I don't know is whether DE actually has any capacity to pivot away from Russian gas, given the absence of LNG import terminals there.
How extensive and below capacity is the cross border gas grid within mainland Europe?
Is there capacity to increase imports and transfer to DE via pipelines?
Well, there is more availability for oil, as that is 90% shipped rather than piped.
But don't forget than European gas transit is pretty cheap. If you land LNG at Spain's Bilbao LNG import terminal at $12.20/mmbtu, you'll probably pay $0.40 to get it piped to Hannover.
So, yes, Germany is disadvantaged by not having its own import terminals. But RWE can buy gas from import into Spain or Italy and then pay a (fairly modest) transit fee.
Maybe a downer this post, unless you have some cheery answers
*oil, gas, Big Macs
The UK appear to be announcing all sorts of plans for extra drilling of North sea for Gas and Oil tonight. It seems the markets were spooked today by the push, largely from US, to stop paying Putin for Gas and Oil. Which does make sense, why punish breadline Russians when at same time we are pouring money into the Kremlin?
With the EU saying to UK, hurry up and pillage your Oligarchs, US saying to EU, our consumers are happy to be Russian free on energy use hurry up and do the same - it’s obvious not everyone is exposed in the same way. Whilst we are cancelling the Russian peoples access to Premiership football and shaming McDonalds for still trading there, European governments still handing Putin’s government the money to stay afloat and fund his war. When can we turn off our supply of good money straight into Putin’s regime?
If McDonalds shut, that’s some low paid people who don’t have much say in sane government in Kremlin out of a job. Are we now just picking low hanging fruit to make ourselves feel better? The right way to do this sanctioning is target the evil regime, not the poor everyday Russian people who we actually want on our side?
How soon can EU and UK be less dependent on paying Putin, without ravaged by supply and price issues? I fear the answer is much more than weeks isn’t it?
The UK is not dependent on paying Putin, as less than 5% of our gas comes from Russia.
If Germany or Italy stops buys Russian oil, then they compete with us for Mexican or Saudi Arabian oil.
We both get hit equally.
Gas is more complex, but there we are incredibly dependent on spot LNG cargoes. If we're competing with Germany for them... well, we'll both be hit equally.
2 - You need to take account of relative amounts of imports to identify potential "hurt".
2020 Imports of Oil by Germany: 610 million barrels 2020 Imports of Oil by UK: 330 million barrels 2020 Imports of Gas by Germany: 155 million cubic m 2020 Imports of Gas by UK: 44 million cubic m
The overall problem here is much smaller than in Germany. Not helped by their larger manufacturing base.
(Note: obvs both affected by Corona as 2020 figures, but that does not change the point.)
I am surprised nobody has mentioned the obscure suggestion that a colony of Varangian English settled on the shore of the Black Sea after the Norman Invasion.
Something like that. I can’t find it on Google, but it’s definitely a thing.
Perhaps we could have that bit.
I think that was one of the tidbits mentioned in The Last King English King by Julian Rathbone. A truly wondrous book.
"According to the recently discovered Chronicon universale anonymi Laudunensis, a group of English notables immigrated to Byzantium in 235 ships, reaching Constantinople in 1075. Some 4350 of the emigrants and their families remained in Constantinople in imperial service, while a majority of the refugees sailed to a place called Domapia, six days’ journey from Byzantium, conquered it and renamed it Nova Anglia (New England)."
Also, this bit may be of use to Ukranians needing to cite family links when applying for UK visas: "For example, ties between the Kievan Rus’ and England were not unknown. The exiled Gyda, daughter of Harold II Godwinson, married Kievan Prince Vladimir Monomakh..."
Its quite striking how people moved around a lot, and often vast distances in olden times, intermarrying and living new lives. The good old days?
It's amazing how far the Vikings roamed eastwards.
King Offa, by the way, is an archetypal case of plans going awry. He allegedly killed off every rival who might have a claim to power when he died, so his son Ecgfrith would inherit the kingdom. Ecgfrith did inherit. Only to die a few months later.
As someone in Charlemagne's court said: "That most noble young man has not died for his sins, but the vengeance for the blood shed by the father has reached the son. For you know how much blood his father shed to secure the kingdom upon his son."
Retired General Sir Chris Deverell says NATO needs to install a No Fly Zone, saying it's not a question of if we begin fighting Putin but when.
I believe he may be right. If Putin isn't winning I suspect he will try to escalate this anyway. We may be kidding ourselves to think this is containable.
A day of reckoning for Mark Cavendish today. He’s looked poor so far this season. Age has taken its toll?
I could list 10 sprinters that look tastier so far this season (early days yet mind). Jakobsen, who easily whacked Van Aert yesterday, looks invincible. Luckily for Cavendish he’s only up against Ewan and Merlier this afternoon.
The UK is immensely richer for its Irish heritage. I really struggle to understand this smaller and smaller conception of England.
It seems strange that Irish can vote though. Commonwealth citizens too. I’ve no idea why this is maintained, it isn’t reciprocal (and still wouldn’t make sense if it was).
Its maintained as it does no harm so there's no need to remove it, even though its not a common arrangement. Traditionalists should be in favour as a result.
UK severing free passage with RI, makes as much sense in British national interest, as RI leaving the Commonwealth did in Irish national interest. Zero in both cases. Or rather less.
Given Ire is a non-aligned nation with no notable defence forces and a land border with us you'd have to be on the Russian payroll, or just plain stupid to advocate loosening links. The UK needs to keep Ireland close to make sure that our national defence is secure.
If anything the CTA increases the security risk to GB then.
The Republic of Ireland increasing defence spending and joining NATO would do far more to protect our national security re Russia than the CTA does
Oireland and the EU insisted on the hard border did they?
Bloody EU - we vote to leave, and then there's a border with the thing we voted not to be part of...
We could have used a technical solution as we proposed. The Irish demanded a hard border in the Irish Sea with Brussels.
Well if that in turn means no CTA until it is removed so be it.
The Republic of Ireland chose to leave the UK and chose to remove the Queen as Head of State and now chose to impose a hard border in the Irish Sea.
If that means Irish migrants face the same points system as every other nations' migrants then so be it
Inconveniently for you it was Boris Johnson who signed the agreement putting the border in the Irish Sea.
You really have posted a lot of bigoted, ignorant rubbish on here tonight.
It was the EU who demanded the hard border in the Irish Sea for a trade deal not the UK
Because we didn't want a trade deal (due to the freedom of movement requirements) the EU required a border - with May’s deal the border was between Northern Ireland and the Republic.
I see our young friend from SW Essex has taken against the Irish now. A people abused by the Anglo Norman aristocracy for centuries and mocked by the Saxons as a consequence. That they are prepared to be friendly to us is remarkable, and a tribute to their generosity.
Maybe a downer this post, unless you have some cheery answers
*oil, gas, Big Macs
The UK appear to be announcing all sorts of plans for extra drilling of North sea for Gas and Oil tonight. It seems the markets were spooked today by the push, largely from US, to stop paying Putin for Gas and Oil. Which does make sense, why punish breadline Russians when at same time we are pouring money into the Kremlin?
With the EU saying to UK, hurry up and pillage your Oligarchs, US saying to EU, our consumers are happy to be Russian free on energy use hurry up and do the same - it’s obvious not everyone is exposed in the same way. Whilst we are cancelling the Russian peoples access to Premiership football and shaming McDonalds for still trading there, European governments still handing Putin’s government the money to stay afloat and fund his war. When can we turn off our supply of good money straight into Putin’s regime?
If McDonalds shut, that’s some low paid people who don’t have much say in sane government in Kremlin out of a job. Are we now just picking low hanging fruit to make ourselves feel better? The right way to do this sanctioning is target the evil regime, not the poor everyday Russian people who we actually want on our side?
How soon can EU and UK be less dependent on paying Putin, without ravaged by supply and price issues? I fear the answer is much more than weeks isn’t it?
The UK is not dependent on paying Putin, as less than 5% of our gas comes from Russia.
If Germany or Italy stops buys Russian oil, then they compete with us for Mexican or Saudi Arabian oil.
We both get hit equally.
Gas is more complex, but there we are incredibly dependent on spot LNG cargoes. If we're competing with Germany for them... well, we'll both be hit equally.
2 - You need to take account of relative amounts of imports to identify potential "hurt".
2020 Imports of Oil by Germany: 610 million barrels 2020 Imports of Oil by UK: 330 million barrels 2020 Imports of Gas by Germany: 155 million cubic m 2020 Imports of Gas by UK: 44 million cubic m
The overall problem here is much smaller than in Germany. Not helped by their larger manufacturing base.
(Note: obvs both affected by Corona as 2020 figures, but that does not change the point.)
I'm sure that data is completely correct, but you're kinda missing my point.
Let's imagine that there were two sources of gas in the world, Russia and the USA.
And let us imagine that there were two buyers of gas: Germany and the UK.
At the beginning of the exercise, Germany buys all their gas from Russia, and the UK buys all theirs from the USA.
One day, Russia falls out of favour and Germany decides to not buy from them again. Big problem for Germany, not for anyone else, right?
No.
The reality is that - unless the US is locked in by a long-term supply contract - that it will sell to the highest bidder.
So, that means that both the UK and Germany want to buy US gas and no-one wants to buy Russian gas.
The price of gas trebles for Germany and the UK, the US makes out like a bandit, and Russia is fucked.
In other words, the US will increase the price they sell gas at. They have no obligation to us. It is simply that we were the customer. Only now there are two customers.
Not so easy to redirect the Norwegian pipelines, though ? And there are contracts in place. You're largely correct, but it's not quite that simple.
Comments
Fascinating.
There is absolutely no reason why the Irish should have priority over migrants we share the Queen and Commonwealth with like Canadians, Australians or New Zealanders or those we share English with like India and the USA or other Europeans now. They can go via the same points system as everyone else.
A hard border in the Irish Sea leads to inevitable consequences even if they face more difficulty finding work in London
So no closer to us than New Zealanders or Australians then, given most of the latter's ancestors were actually British
Am struck by proposed language test for British nationality, esp. one based NOT on use of English, but rather use of some other language.
Which of course puts Outer Hebrides and North Wales beyond the Pale (pun intended).
Personally I am very doubtful that it actually existed, but it could be a top way to troll Putin if Zelenskyy were to say tomorrow to the Commons that after the war he’d consider leasing the area to the UK as a thank you.
"According to the recently discovered Chronicon universale anonymi Laudunensis, a group of English notables immigrated to Byzantium in 235 ships, reaching Constantinople in 1075. Some 4350 of the emigrants and their families remained in Constantinople in imperial service, while a majority of the refugees sailed to a place called Domapia, six days’ journey from Byzantium, conquered it and renamed it Nova Anglia (New England)."
Also, this bit may be of use to Ukranians needing to cite family links when applying for UK visas:
"For example, ties between the Kievan Rus’ and England were not unknown. The exiled Gyda, daughter of Harold II Godwinson, married Kievan Prince Vladimir Monomakh..."
That said... I must admit to thinking it is the Irish who are in the right here.
It is the only nation exempt now from our points based immigration system despite the hard border in the Irish Sea Dublin and Brussels insisted on and despite the fact the Republic left the UK 100 years ago and got rid of the Queen as Head of State over 75 years ago.
As Aslan states there might be merit in keeping the CTA with NI but if Dublin wants a hard border with GB no reason its citizens should get free movement with GB still
Maybe it’s true, maybe not. We await genetic testing which seems to have developed immensely in recent years.
Cue @Richard_Tyndall to talk about whether the invading Anglo-Saxons exterminated the existing Celts or whether they just intermarried.
Irish dialogue subtitled: “ This is Ireland. Go over to England if you want to speak English.”
It seems strange that Irish can vote though. Commonwealth citizens too. I’ve no idea why this is maintained, it isn’t reciprocal (and still wouldn’t make sense if it was).
And what interest was/is that? Primarily labor. Men and women who left/leave Ireland to work in Britain, in agriculture, construction, nursing, plenty of other fields. Including British military, such as 70k volunteers from Republic in WW2.
Isle of Man
Guernsey
Jersey
*cough*
The law is that that the Irish are not aliens, and enjoy all the same rights and responsibilities as Brits.
You mean like the Irish did, against us?
"THAT'S NOT WHAT I MEANT!"
Enough. Fuck off. Be European
Ireland 93.2%
UK 92.3%
NZ 85.9%
USA 78.1%
Aus 72.7%
Can 54.4%
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_population
Maybe they'll assume the reference is to the Prime Minister? Who does have Black Sea ancestry.
My wife's best friend recently broke up with her fiance because he didn't want to live in one of the Gaeltacht areas. I imagine the attitude to use of English in those areas must be rather hostile, even if only implicitly, because people have generally made a choice to live in an area where they can speak Irish day to day, and so use of English has to be kept out.
In English, the name for the Irish language is Irish, while in Irish it is Gaeilge, which I think can be badly pronounced as Gaelic. Talking about the Irish language in English as Gaelic would be the equivalent of badly pronouncing "Francais" instead of saying French. But this is a bit confusing because of the desire to use Irish terms in English - eg for example with the use of Taoiseach.
*oil, gas, Big Macs
The UK appear to be announcing all sorts of plans for extra drilling of North sea for Gas and Oil tonight. It seems the markets were spooked today by the push, largely from US, to stop paying Putin for Gas and Oil. Which does make sense, why punish breadline Russians when at same time we are pouring money into the Kremlin?
With the EU saying to UK, hurry up and pillage your Oligarchs, US saying to EU, our consumers are happy to be Russian free on energy use hurry up and do the same - it’s obvious not everyone is exposed in the same way. Whilst we are cancelling the Russian peoples access to Premiership football and shaming McDonalds for still trading there, European governments still handing Putin’s government the money to stay afloat and fund his war. When can we turn off our supply of good money straight into Putin’s regime?
If McDonalds shut, that’s some low paid people who don’t have much say in sane government in Kremlin out of a job. Are we now just picking low hanging fruit to make ourselves feel better? The right way to do this sanctioning is target the evil regime, not the poor everyday Russian people who we actually want on our side?
How soon can EU and UK be less dependent on paying Putin, without ravaged by supply and price issues?
I fear the answer is much more than weeks isn’t it?
It’s rubbish
That’s the point. Freedom of movement is tempting if you chuck in the algarve, Provence and the Cyclades. Ireland is basically a toilet. No one wants to go there
Wot @rpjs said: "You do know that those privileges are reciprocal for British citizens living in Ireland?"
It's because we feel an affinity for them because of our close historical connections. It's a strength. Please don't trash things that are good about Britain.
He’s bringing a gift. Gifts will be exchanged.
His gift to us is he is still alive. Russia haven’t won, Ukraine not annexed.
He will ask for a no fly zone. If we are not prepared to give him that (but the numbers who would are growing by the day) we can’t just say no sorry, and be lost for words, what more have we got to announce to help him, tomorrow?
Relatedly, does the guy in the flat below you really, really, really hate you?
Why is it always the case that free movement between the UK and elsewhere is always seen as a burden on the UK, rather than an opportunity?
I can just about understand the argument with the EU, where most Europeans had some knowledge of English, but few Brits had knowledge of French, or German or Polish, and so there was a language imbalance - but that doesn't apply to the Irish.
It's pathological to want to cut the country off from the outside world into a smaller and smaller area, all the while insisting that we're an outward-looking global country.
Bloody EU - we vote to leave, and then there's a border with the thing we voted not to be part of...
You know it’s a toilet?
(That Michael Cain, crawling out the pub under the tables trick in Alfie, that’s me that is)
Night 🙋♀️
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seán_Mac_Stíofáin
My neighbours below are a delightful young mixed race couple. I confess I am occasionally disturbed by her gurgling phone calls. She is altogether too happy, blithe, innocent, and loudly cheerful. And a bit sexy
But then I remember what I must have been like for my older neighbours. 24 hour parties. Monstrous amounts of drugs. Absolute mayhem. And I give thanks for having such civilised and genuinely polite young Londoners as my Camden Co-habitants
I’ve sarcastically been a bit mean about the younger generation, on this thread, but in reality they seem much nicer if less audacious than my cohort. God bless them
Well if that in turn means no CTA until it is removed so be it.
The Republic of Ireland chose to leave the UK and chose to remove the Queen as Head of State and now chose to impose a hard border in the Irish Sea.
If that means Irish migrants face the same points system as every other nations' migrants then so be it
You really have posted a lot of bigoted, ignorant rubbish on here tonight.
Zero in both cases. Or rather less.
For the record, I do NOT include in this ending Irish voting rights in UK elections if non-reciprocal, UK has every right to do that. I'm NOT advocating it either, assuming there may be good reasons NOT to disenfranchise existing voters. Though reckon that their continued inclusion all these years has also NOT been exactly apolitical? Seem to recall that for many years Irish voters in UK tended to vote Labour?
Plus there seems to be some scope for increasing our own production:
https://www.independent.co.uk/business/government-should-loosen-gas-rules-amid-price-spike-north-sea-firm-says-b1924229.html
And our oil imports from Russia are only about 10%. Though oil is more complex, as it is a more categorised product.
The main issue for us is linkage of prices we pay to world prices.
There's a good thread from the Bus and Energy Secretary here:
https://twitter.com/KwasiKwarteng/status/1498197281144725505
The UK and the EU (Ireland) agreed to implement a "smart border" with a trusted trader programme. The current arrangement - i.e. with a border in the North Sea - is meant to be transitional.
In the initial post Brexit period, there was a lot of (largely justifiable) concern that the EU was not going to implement the "smart border". This led to the UK government (rightly) throwing their toys out the pram and threatening to invoke Article 16.
Since then, the EU and the UK have both published their proposals for the border (https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/STUD/2017/596828/IPOL_STU(2017)596828_EN.pdf ) and the parties are in the process of reconciliation.
The government's own report to the Northern Ireland Select Committee ( https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/120/northern-ireland-affairs-committee/) is that progress is being made.
The timetable is for reconciliation to be agreed by the end of this year, and then for IT services firms to bid on implementation in early 2023. In theory, things are supposed to be live by end 2023, but I suspect that it will end up being delayed somewhat (largely because Accenture and Cap Gemini are shit).
Nevertheless, Northern Ireland is heading towards what was always envisaged -a proper technical solution.
If Germany or Italy stops buys Russian oil, then they compete with us for Mexican or Saudi Arabian oil.
We both get hit equally.
Gas is more complex, but there we are incredibly dependent on spot LNG cargoes. If we're competing with Germany for them... well, we'll both be hit equally.
1 - Germany has declared that they aren't stopping buying Russian energy
https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-rejects-calls-for-banning-russian-oil-and-gas/
2 - You need to take account of relative amounts of imports to identify potential "hurt".
2020 Imports of Oil by Germany: 610 million barrels
2020 Imports of Oil by UK: 330 million barrels
2020 Imports of Gas by Germany: 155 million cubic m
2020 Imports of Gas by UK: 44 million cubic m
The overall problem here is much smaller than in Germany. Not helped by their larger manufacturing base.
(Note: obvs both affected by Corona as 2020 figures, but that does not change the point.)
Sources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_imports
https://www.ceicdata.com/en/indicator/united-kingdom/natural-gas-imports
https://www.ceicdata.com/en/indicator/germany/natural-gas-imports
I believe he may be right. If Putin isn't winning I suspect he will try to escalate this anyway. We may be kidding ourselves to think this is containable.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10588295/Its-no-longer-Nato-fight-Putin-says-retired-UK-general.html
Let's imagine that there were two sources of gas in the world, Russia and the USA.
And let us imagine that there were two buyers of gas: Germany and the UK.
At the beginning of the exercise, Germany buys all their gas from Russia, and the UK buys all theirs from the USA.
One day, Russia falls out of favour and Germany decides to not buy from them again. Big problem for Germany, not for anyone else, right?
No.
The reality is that - unless the US is locked in by a long-term supply contract - that it will sell to the highest bidder.
So, that means that both the UK and Germany want to buy US gas and no-one wants to buy Russian gas.
The price of gas trebles for Germany and the UK, the US makes out like a bandit, and Russia is fucked.
In other words, the US will increase the price they sell gas at. They have no obligation to us. It is simply that we were the customer. Only now there are two customers.
I agree with your point, and was just adding some context.
One thing I don't know is whether DE actually has any capacity to pivot away from Russian gas, given the absence of LNG import terminals there.
How extensive and below capacity is the cross border gas grid within mainland Europe?
Is there capacity to increase imports and transfer to DE via pipelines?
But don't forget than European gas transit is pretty cheap. If you land LNG at Spain's Bilbao LNG import terminal at $12.20/mmbtu, you'll probably pay $0.40 to get it piped to Hannover.
So, yes, Germany is disadvantaged by not having its own import terminals. But RWE can buy gas from import into Spain or Italy and then pay a (fairly modest) transit fee.
Then there's the gold coin of Mercian king Offa, which has Arabic inscriptions:
https://www.bl.uk/collection-items/gold-dinar-of-king-offa
King Offa, by the way, is an archetypal case of plans going awry. He allegedly killed off every rival who might have a claim to power when he died, so his son Ecgfrith would inherit the kingdom. Ecgfrith did inherit. Only to die a few months later.
As someone in Charlemagne's court said:
"That most noble young man has not died for his sins, but the vengeance for the blood shed by the father has reached the son. For you know how much blood his father shed to secure the kingdom upon his son."
Absolutely not unless Putin goes beyond Ukraine to invade a NATO state
I could list 10 sprinters that look tastier so far this season (early days yet mind). Jakobsen, who easily whacked Van Aert yesterday, looks invincible. Luckily for Cavendish he’s only up against Ewan and Merlier this afternoon.
Dr. Foxy, were they not fleeing Norman dominion over England?
If the EU reneges on the plans for this (which they themselves published), we would be morally and legally justified in triggering Article 16.
The Republic of Ireland increasing defence spending and joining NATO would do far more to protect our national security re Russia than the CTA does
Bozo moved it
I see our young friend from SW Essex has taken against the Irish now. A people abused by the Anglo Norman aristocracy for centuries and mocked by the Saxons as a consequence.
That they are prepared to be friendly to us is remarkable, and a tribute to their generosity.
You're largely correct, but it's not quite that simple.