The squirming at the moment, plus the frankly sinister interventions by Rees Mogg and some others, make me worry that Johnson is on a journey here. A journey towards Trump. He is going to discover that brazening it out and daring others to launch a putsch works better than trying to be contrite and ask forgiveness, and he's going to double down. That increasingly feels like where we are headed.
It is concerning.
And Mogg's view of 'presidential' politics is anathema to parliamentary democracy. The core principle of our constitution is that the PM derives his position from command of a majority in Parliament. There is absolutely no obligation for a general election if a PN is kicked out, and to suggest otherwise is to elevate the office above Parliament.
If that is their project, let them propose a constitutional amendment, and see how much support it gets. The arrogant entitled cabal needs putting in its place.
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
Jesus was a left of centre social democrat. He'd be comfortable with where Keir Starmer is positioning Labour.
Economically maybe, though the parable of the talents suggested he also backed work not welfare dependency even if he wanted to help the poor.
He was a social conservative however.
The Old Testament of course makes the current Tory manifesto look moderate
He was no social conservative, quite the opposite. As demonstrated through the abandonment of Old Testament mores and the "let he who is without sin" story and much more.
You may be a social conservative, but your Lord and Saviour as you view him was the polar opposite.
Wrong. Jesus did not condone adultery and supported marriage. He accepted reformed sinners he did not condone sin.
The Old Testament is also still a key part of the Christian Bible even if not the only religious book as it is for Jews and in part for Muslims
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
Jesus was a left of centre social democrat. He'd be comfortable with where Keir Starmer is positioning Labour.
Economically maybe, though the parable of the talents suggested he also backed work not welfare dependency even if he wanted to help the poor.
He was a social conservative however.
The Old Testament of course makes the current Tory manifesto look moderate
He was no social conservative, quite the opposite. As demonstrated through the abandonment of Old Testament mores and the "let he who is without sin" story and much more.
You may be a social conservative, but your Lord and Saviour as you view him was the polar opposite.
Wrong. Jesus did not condone adultery and supported marriage. He accepted reformed sinners he did not condone sine.
The Old Testament is also still a key part of the Christian Bible even if not the only religious book as it is for Jews and in part for Muslims
No you're wrong.
I've named socially liberal passages with Christ.
Name a single, just one, Chapter and verse where Christ is socially conservative. Any at all would do.
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You obviously don’t know much about the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic churches. Barring folk at the door is not part of their cultures.
Opposing gay marriage and opposing abortion however certainly is part of the doctrine of the Baptist, Pentecostal and Roman Catholic Churches.
If he cannot even stomach the Anglican Church, whose US and Welsh branches are already offering homosexual couples blessings, the idea he could stomach the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic Churches is laughable!
But you said the opposite. You said that these churches would not even let him get past the door.
No, I said he would not even get past the door (after he heard what they were preaching)
How could he hear what they were preaching if he never got past the door?
Tbf I've been to Pentecostal churches where it would be pretty much guaranteed.
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
Jesus was a left of centre social democrat. He'd be comfortable with where Keir Starmer is positioning Labour.
I knew there was a whole identifying Christ with Che thing but I discover that there's also a push back from more reactionary Christians.
'The image was met with anger by conservative church members and some politicians who condemned the marketing strategy as blasphemous for using a "violent Communist and atheist" to promote Jesus. Tory MP Ann Widdecombe, who converted from the Church of England to Roman Catholicism some years previously, said: "We should be modelling ourselves on Christ, not modelling Christ on us." Former Tory MP Harry Greenway, sponsor of the Conservative Christian Fellowship, described the poster as "grossly sacrilegious" and demanded that those responsible for it should be excommunicated.[6] He threatened to protest to the Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr George Carey, in the "strongest possible language".'
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You obviously don’t know much about the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic churches. Barring folk at the door is not part of their cultures.
Opposing gay marriage and opposing abortion however certainly is part of the doctrine of the Baptist, Pentecostal and Roman Catholic Churches.
If he cannot even stomach the Anglican Church, whose US and Welsh branches are already offering homosexual couples blessings, the idea he could stomach the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic Churches is laughable!
Exactly who is the he you are talking about.
If it's me I'm heading towards converting to Catholicism albeit towards the more liberal modern Irish view of Catholicism rather than the 18th century traditionalist approach.
I think he is talking about me. I lapsed from CofE and now am physically removed from it. I commented solely on being put off by massive hypocrites like him who claim piety whilst demonstrating no grasp of even the basic tenants of the church. Not sure how that makes me unable to stomach other churches.
The Anglican Church is about the most liberal Church there is, apart from maybe the Unitarian Church or the Methodists.
If you cannot even stomach the Church of England no way could you stomach a more conservative Evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional doctrine Roman Catholic Church given how left liberal you are
Oh it really isn't - some parts of the church may be but the remaining congregations rarely are.
So I have a good friend who is gay and married (to a man...).
He goes to church.
Not that it is any of my business but I am amazed that he wants to be a part of a congregation (no matter how lovely they are as individuals) which is celebrating a belief system that actively discriminates against gay people.
FUDHY spending the last two years systematically trying to put people off from voting Conservative has been a wonder to behold. He is now clearly attempting to do the same thing for the Church of England.
I’m beginning to wonder whether HYUFD is another very carefully crafted SeanT alter ego.
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You obviously don’t know much about the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic churches. Barring folk at the door is not part of their cultures.
Opposing gay marriage and opposing abortion however certainly is part of the doctrine of the Baptist, Pentecostal and Roman Catholic Churches.
If he cannot even stomach the Anglican Church, whose US and Welsh branches are already offering homosexual couples blessings, the idea he could stomach the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic Churches is laughable!
Exactly who is the he you are talking about.
If it's me I'm heading towards converting to Catholicism albeit towards the more liberal modern Irish view of Catholicism rather than the 18th century traditionalist approach.
I think he is talking about me. I lapsed from CofE and now am physically removed from it. I commented solely on being put off by massive hypocrites like him who claim piety whilst demonstrating no grasp of even the basic tenants of the church. Not sure how that makes me unable to stomach other churches.
The Anglican Church is about the most liberal Church there is, apart from maybe the Unitarian Church or the Methodists.
If you cannot even stomach the Church of England no way could you stomach a more conservative Evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional doctrine Roman Catholic Church given how left liberal you are
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You obviously don’t know much about the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic churches. Barring folk at the door is not part of their cultures.
Opposing gay marriage and opposing abortion however certainly is part of the doctrine of the Baptist, Pentecostal and Roman Catholic Churches.
If he cannot even stomach the Anglican Church, whose US and Welsh branches are already offering homosexual couples blessings, the idea he could stomach the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic Churches is laughable!
Exactly who is the he you are talking about.
If it's me I'm heading towards converting to Catholicism albeit towards the more liberal modern Irish view of Catholicism rather than the 18th century traditionalist approach.
I think he is talking about me. I lapsed from CofE and now am physically removed from it. I commented solely on being put off by massive hypocrites like him who claim piety whilst demonstrating no grasp of even the basic tenants of the church. Not sure how that makes me unable to stomach other churches.
The Anglican Church is about the most liberal Church there is, apart from maybe the Unitarian Church or the Methodists.
If you cannot even stomach the Church of England no way could you stomach a more conservative Evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional doctrine Roman Catholic Church given how left liberal you are
About the most liberal church there is? CofE doesn't even perform same-sex marriages (unlike many other christian denominations). That is pretty much the definition of illiberal. It's actually pretty disgusting that they are against human rights in that way.
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You obviously don’t know much about the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic churches. Barring folk at the door is not part of their cultures.
Opposing gay marriage and opposing abortion however certainly is part of the doctrine of the Baptist, Pentecostal and Roman Catholic Churches.
If he cannot even stomach the Anglican Church, whose US and Welsh branches are already offering homosexual couples blessings, the idea he could stomach the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic Churches is laughable!
Exactly who is the he you are talking about.
If it's me I'm heading towards converting to Catholicism albeit towards the more liberal modern Irish view of Catholicism rather than the 18th century traditionalist approach.
You would still find most Roman Catholic priests in Ireland oppose abortion and gay marriage, as does Pope Francis still, even if he is more liberal than his predecessor Benedict
My problem is never the priests - its usually a vocal incredibly bigoted minority of the congregation. Priests you can talk to and while we will disagree if the enjoy a debate I'm happy to have one
When I visit Catholic churches its incredibly rare to encounter such people, I can pick at least 3 local CofE churches where they are the majority of the rapidly declining congregation.
The Roman Catholic Church does not even have women priests unlike the Anglican Church and is firmly still anti gay marriage and anti abortion. The Church of England overall is more liberal than the Roman Catholic Church now
You are comparing a world order with a regional sub branch (albeit one in charge of the head office). What are the Anglican Communion's viewpoint on such things?
The squirming at the moment, plus the frankly sinister interventions by Rees Mogg and some others, make me worry that Johnson is on a journey here. A journey towards Trump. He is going to discover that brazening it out and daring others to launch a putsch works better than trying to be contrite and ask forgiveness, and he's going to double down. That increasingly feels like where we are headed.
It is concerning.
And Mogg's view of 'presidential' politics is anathema to parliamentary democracy. The core principle of our constitution is that the PM derives his position from command of a majority in Parliament. There is absolutely no obligation for a general election if a PN is kicked out, and to suggest otherwise is to elevate the office above Parliament.
If that is their project, let them propose a constitutional amendment, and see how much support it gets. The arrogant entitled cabal needs putting in its place.
You say that today but I bet if Boris is replaced you'll be saying the new PM lacks a mandate and there should be an early election.
There's nothing new about what Mogg says. Such attitudes have existed for as long as I've been an adult, if not longer, its just that people switch what they say to depend upon what their agenda is.
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
Jesus was a left of centre social democrat. He'd be comfortable with where Keir Starmer is positioning Labour.
Economically maybe, though the parable of the talents suggested he also backed work not welfare dependency even if he wanted to help the poor.
He was a social conservative however.
The Old Testament of course makes the current Tory manifesto look moderate
He was no social conservative, quite the opposite. As demonstrated through the abandonment of Old Testament mores and the "let he who is without sin" story and much more.
You may be a social conservative, but your Lord and Saviour as you view him was the polar opposite.
Wrong. Jesus did not condone adultery and supported marriage. He accepted reformed sinners he did not condone sine.
The Old Testament is also still a key part of the Christian Bible even if not the only religious book as it is for Jews and in part for Muslims
No you're wrong.
I've named socially liberal passages with Christ.
Name a single, just one, Chapter and verse where Christ is socially conservative. Any at all would do.
You can't, because he wasn't.
No you are wrong.
You have not named one passage where Jesus opposed marriage, advocated adultery and abortion, or even advocated homosexuality (though he was not clearly anti the latter as Paul was).
In any case my Christianity is based as much on much of the Old Testament as the New Testament ie the whole Bible
The squirming at the moment, plus the frankly sinister interventions by Rees Mogg and some others, make me worry that Johnson is on a journey here. A journey towards Trump. He is going to discover that brazening it out and daring others to launch a putsch works better than trying to be contrite and ask forgiveness, and he's going to double down. That increasingly feels like where we are headed.
It is concerning.
And Mogg's view of 'presidential' politics is anathema to parliamentary democracy. The core principle of our constitution is that the PM derives his position from command of a majority in Parliament. There is absolutely no obligation for a general election if a PN is kicked out, and to suggest otherwise is to elevate the office above Parliament.
If that is their project, let them propose a constitutional amendment, and see how much support it gets. The arrogant entitled cabal needs putting in its place.
If Mogg had been alive in the 1930s he could have been Oswald Mosley.
FUDHY spending the last two years systematically trying to put people off from voting Conservative has been a wonder to behold. He is now clearly attempting to do the same thing for the Church of England.
I’m beginning to wonder whether HYUFD is another very carefully crafted SeanT alter ego.
The day SeanT crafts an alter ego not immediately identifiable as SeanT I would eat my hat if I had one.
To be clear: - only going to a party for a short amount of time isn't a defence - being surprised by a party and staying isn't a defence - not realizing you're at a party or that it isn't legal isn't a defence
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
Jesus was a left of centre social democrat. He'd be comfortable with where Keir Starmer is positioning Labour.
Economically maybe, though the parable of the talents suggested he also backed work not welfare dependency even if he wanted to help the poor.
He was a social conservative however.
The Old Testament of course makes the current Tory manifesto look moderate
He was no social conservative, quite the opposite. As demonstrated through the abandonment of Old Testament mores and the "let he who is without sin" story and much more.
You may be a social conservative, but your Lord and Saviour as you view him was the polar opposite.
Wrong. Jesus did not condone adultery and supported marriage. He accepted reformed sinners he did not condone sine.
The Old Testament is also still a key part of the Christian Bible even if not the only religious book as it is for Jews and in part for Muslims
No you're wrong.
I've named socially liberal passages with Christ.
Name a single, just one, Chapter and verse where Christ is socially conservative. Any at all would do.
You can't, because he wasn't.
No you are wrong.
You have not named one passage where Jesus opposed marriage, advocated adultery and abortion, or even advocated homosexuality (though he was not clearly anti thr latter as Paul was).
In any case my Christianity is based as much on much of the Old Testament as the New Testament ie the whole Bible
You're redefining liberal and conservative to suit your agenda. I don't recall abortion or homosexuality being discussed by Christ whatsoever.
If you look at what Christ actually says, as opposed to your imagination, then what he actually says would have made him very socially liberal for his day and age which he was a product of.
But you don't know Christ at all which is why you're incapable of naming a single socially conservative teaching that he gave. Because he wasn't, but you're not interested in Christ, you're just interested in your own views not his.
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You obviously don’t know much about the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic churches. Barring folk at the door is not part of their cultures.
Opposing gay marriage and opposing abortion however certainly is part of the doctrine of the Baptist, Pentecostal and Roman Catholic Churches.
If he cannot even stomach the Anglican Church, whose US and Welsh branches are already offering homosexual couples blessings, the idea he could stomach the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic Churches is laughable!
Exactly who is the he you are talking about.
If it's me I'm heading towards converting to Catholicism albeit towards the more liberal modern Irish view of Catholicism rather than the 18th century traditionalist approach.
You would still find most Roman Catholic priests in Ireland oppose abortion and gay marriage, as does Pope Francis still, even if he is more liberal than his predecessor Benedict
My problem is never the priests - its usually a vocal incredibly bigoted minority of the congregation. Priests you can talk to and while we will disagree if the enjoy a debate I'm happy to have one
When I visit Catholic churches its incredibly rare to encounter such people, I can pick at least 3 local CofE churches where they are the majority of the rapidly declining congregation.
The Roman Catholic Church does not even have women priests unlike the Anglican Church and is firmly still anti gay marriage and anti abortion. The Church of England overall is more liberal than the Roman Catholic Church now
You are comparing a world order with a regional sub branch (albeit one in charge of the head office). What are the Anglican Communion's viewpoint on such things?
The Anglican Communion is relatively loose, the US Episcopal Church already does gay blessings, the African Anglican Church still takes a hard line against gay marriage.
The Roman Catholic Church is top down and what the infallible Pope says applies to the whole Roman Catholic Church worldwide. The Pope is effectively an absolute monarch of the Roman Catholic Church assisted by his Cardinals who tells his priests what to preach
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You obviously don’t know much about the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic churches. Barring folk at the door is not part of their cultures.
Opposing gay marriage and opposing abortion however certainly is part of the doctrine of the Baptist, Pentecostal and Roman Catholic Churches.
If he cannot even stomach the Anglican Church, whose US and Welsh branches are already offering homosexual couples blessings, the idea he could stomach the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic Churches is laughable!
Exactly who is the he you are talking about.
If it's me I'm heading towards converting to Catholicism albeit towards the more liberal modern Irish view of Catholicism rather than the 18th century traditionalist approach.
I think he is talking about me. I lapsed from CofE and now am physically removed from it. I commented solely on being put off by massive hypocrites like him who claim piety whilst demonstrating no grasp of even the basic tenants of the church. Not sure how that makes me unable to stomach other churches.
The Anglican Church is about the most liberal Church there is, apart from maybe the Unitarian Church or the Methodists.
If you cannot even stomach the Church of England no way could you stomach a more conservative Evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional doctrine Roman Catholic Church given how left liberal you are
You have fundamentally misunderstood. Again. I was happy in the CofE. Was an active member of a brilliant evangelical church in Durham and an organiser on their student ministry team. Then we moved and after a couple of false starts found another proactive church.
I like the church. I dislike congregants like you who piously claim holier than thou whilst having no clue about what the Church actually believes. You have posted some stuff this morning that is in direct contradiction of His teachings and of what the church ministry teach. And yet are still proclaiming your piety and my failings.
I'm chucking again as I type this. That Massive Plank in your eye really is blinding you. It explains quite a lot. And you keep making political comments about churches. What does political leanings have to do with faith? And its hardly like the CofE is a unified movement with no variations - massive differences between high church Anglo-Catholic ministry and Alpha Course Student Ministry evangelical outreach church and yet both are CofE. Same within holy mother church and the others you have disdained this morning.
I've always been puzzled, and was when I was a Christian, with what happened in the afterlife to those who had had no opportunity to meet with Christian teaching. Take my Thai grandchildren's other grandparents for example. AFAIK no Christian missionary has ever been near nor by their community. Certainly no sign of it! And they are decent, hardworking honest people.
Depends on your definitions of afterlife. Personally my take is that Heaven is "with God" and Hell is "without God". Fire and brimstone and all that bollocks is just colourful allegory. The people who don't believe in God or haven't found God won't miss God will they?
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You obviously don’t know much about the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic churches. Barring folk at the door is not part of their cultures.
Opposing gay marriage and opposing abortion however certainly is part of the doctrine of the Baptist, Pentecostal and Roman Catholic Churches.
If he cannot even stomach the Anglican Church, whose US and Welsh branches are already offering homosexual couples blessings, the idea he could stomach the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic Churches is laughable!
Exactly who is the he you are talking about.
If it's me I'm heading towards converting to Catholicism albeit towards the more liberal modern Irish view of Catholicism rather than the 18th century traditionalist approach.
I think he is talking about me. I lapsed from CofE and now am physically removed from it. I commented solely on being put off by massive hypocrites like him who claim piety whilst demonstrating no grasp of even the basic tenants of the church. Not sure how that makes me unable to stomach other churches.
The Anglican Church is about the most liberal Church there is, apart from maybe the Unitarian Church or the Methodists.
If you cannot even stomach the Church of England no way could you stomach a more conservative Evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional doctrine Roman Catholic Church given how left liberal you are
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You obviously don’t know much about the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic churches. Barring folk at the door is not part of their cultures.
Opposing gay marriage and opposing abortion however certainly is part of the doctrine of the Baptist, Pentecostal and Roman Catholic Churches.
If he cannot even stomach the Anglican Church, whose US and Welsh branches are already offering homosexual couples blessings, the idea he could stomach the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic Churches is laughable!
Exactly who is the he you are talking about.
If it's me I'm heading towards converting to Catholicism albeit towards the more liberal modern Irish view of Catholicism rather than the 18th century traditionalist approach.
I think he is talking about me. I lapsed from CofE and now am physically removed from it. I commented solely on being put off by massive hypocrites like him who claim piety whilst demonstrating no grasp of even the basic tenants of the church. Not sure how that makes me unable to stomach other churches.
The Anglican Church is about the most liberal Church there is, apart from maybe the Unitarian Church or the Methodists.
If you cannot even stomach the Church of England no way could you stomach a more conservative Evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional doctrine Roman Catholic Church given how left liberal you are
About the most liberal church there is? CofE doesn't even perform same-sex marriages (unlike many other christian denominations). That is pretty much the definition of illiberal. It's actually pretty disgusting that they are against human rights in that way.
Actually the US Episcopalian branch of the Anglican Church does perform same sex blessings as does the Church of Wales.
However no Baptist, Pentecostal or Roman Catholic or Greek or Russian Orthodox Churches , which make up the vast majority of Christian churches worldwide, perform even same sex blessings let alone same sex marriages
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
Jesus was a left of centre social democrat. He'd be comfortable with where Keir Starmer is positioning Labour.
Economically maybe, though the parable of the talents suggested he also backed work not welfare dependency even if he wanted to help the poor.
He was a social conservative however.
The Old Testament of course makes the current Tory manifesto look moderate
He was no social conservative, quite the opposite. As demonstrated through the abandonment of Old Testament mores and the "let he who is without sin" story and much more.
You may be a social conservative, but your Lord and Saviour as you view him was the polar opposite.
Wrong. Jesus did not condone adultery and supported marriage. He accepted reformed sinners he did not condone sine.
The Old Testament is also still a key part of the Christian Bible even if not the only religious book as it is for Jews and in part for Muslims
No you're wrong.
I've named socially liberal passages with Christ.
Name a single, just one, Chapter and verse where Christ is socially conservative. Any at all would do.
You can't, because he wasn't.
No you are wrong.
You have not named one passage where Jesus opposed marriage, advocated adultery and abortion, or even advocated homosexuality (though he was not clearly anti thr latter as Paul was).
In any case my Christianity is based as much on much of the Old Testament as the New Testament ie the whole Bible
You're redefining liberal and conservative to suit your agenda. I don't recall abortion or homosexuality being discussed by Christ whatsoever.
If you look at what Christ actually says, as opposed to your imagination, then what he actually says would have made him very socially liberal for his day and age which he was a product of.
But you don't know Christ at all which is why you're incapable of naming a single socially conservative teaching that he gave. Because he wasn't, but you're not interested in Christ, you're just interested in your own views not his.
You're not interested in Christ no, you are an atheist libertarian
The squirming at the moment, plus the frankly sinister interventions by Rees Mogg and some others, make me worry that Johnson is on a journey here. A journey towards Trump. He is going to discover that brazening it out and daring others to launch a putsch works better than trying to be contrite and ask forgiveness, and he's going to double down. That increasingly feels like where we are headed.
It is concerning.
And Mogg's view of 'presidential' politics is anathema to parliamentary democracy. The core principle of our constitution is that the PM derives his position from command of a majority in Parliament. There is absolutely no obligation for a general election if a PN is kicked out, and to suggest otherwise is to elevate the office above Parliament.
If that is their project, let them propose a constitutional amendment, and see how much support it gets. The arrogant entitled cabal needs putting in its place.
You say that today but I bet if Boris is replaced you'll be saying the new PM lacks a mandate and there should be an early election.
There's nothing new about what Mogg says. Such attitudes have existed for as long as I've been an adult, if not longer, its just that people switch what they say to depend upon what their agenda is.
With so large a majority in Parliament ? I would not. One might possibly argue if a new administration wished to introduce radically different policies that its mandate to do so might be questionable, but that's absolutely not the case simply for a change of PM.
I've always been puzzled, and was when I was a Christian, with what happened in the afterlife to those who had had no opportunity to meet with Christian teaching. Take my Thai grandchildren's other grandparents for example. AFAIK no Christian missionary has ever been near nor by their community. Certainly no sign of it! And they are decent, hardworking honest people.
Depends on your definitions of afterlife. Personally my take is that Heaven is "with God" and Hell is "without God". Fire and brimstone and all that bollocks is just colourful allegory. The people who don't believe in God or haven't found God won't miss God will they?
There is heaven and hell and purgatory for the rest
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
Jesus was a left of centre social democrat. He'd be comfortable with where Keir Starmer is positioning Labour.
Economically maybe, though the parable of the talents suggested he also backed work not welfare dependency even if he wanted to help the poor.
He was a social conservative however.
The Old Testament of course makes the current Tory manifesto look moderate
Sorry, Jesus was a social conservative??????
A man who overturned money lender tables in the temple, told the church leaders they were deeply wrong, led a faith revolution which literally overthrew the pagan gods and society of a Roman empire which ran the entire developed world and founded a movement which imposed itself over the top of every other faith and nation in Europe and half the globe was "a social conservative".
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You obviously don’t know much about the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic churches. Barring folk at the door is not part of their cultures.
Opposing gay marriage and opposing abortion however certainly is part of the doctrine of the Baptist, Pentecostal and Roman Catholic Churches.
If he cannot even stomach the Anglican Church, whose US and Welsh branches are already offering homosexual couples blessings, the idea he could stomach the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic Churches is laughable!
Exactly who is the he you are talking about.
If it's me I'm heading towards converting to Catholicism albeit towards the more liberal modern Irish view of Catholicism rather than the 18th century traditionalist approach.
You would still find most Roman Catholic priests in Ireland oppose abortion and gay marriage, as does Pope Francis still, even if he is more liberal than his predecessor Benedict
My problem is never the priests - its usually a vocal incredibly bigoted minority of the congregation. Priests you can talk to and while we will disagree if the enjoy a debate I'm happy to have one
When I visit Catholic churches its incredibly rare to encounter such people, I can pick at least 3 local CofE churches where they are the majority of the rapidly declining congregation.
The Roman Catholic Church does not even have women priests unlike the Anglican Church and is firmly still anti gay marriage and anti abortion. The Church of England overall is more liberal than the Roman Catholic Church now
You are comparing a world order with a regional sub branch (albeit one in charge of the head office). What are the Anglican Communion's viewpoint on such things?
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
Jesus was a left of centre social democrat. He'd be comfortable with where Keir Starmer is positioning Labour.
Economically maybe, though the parable of the talents suggested he also backed work not welfare dependency even if he wanted to help the poor.
He was a social conservative however.
The Old Testament of course makes the current Tory manifesto look moderate
Sorry, Jesus was a social conservative??????
A man who overturned money lender tables in the temple, told the church leaders they were deeply wrong, led a faith revolution which literally overthrew the pagan gods and society of a Roman empire which ran the entire developed world and founded a movement which imposed itself over the top of every other faith and nation in Europe and half the globe was "a social conservative".
Have you ever actually read the Bible? Jesus...
Not just that. Someone who really wasn't bothered by the Nuclear Family. Someone who, presented with a woman caught in adultery, doodled in the sand for a bit, then said something important about who could cast the first stone.
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You obviously don’t know much about the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic churches. Barring folk at the door is not part of their cultures.
Opposing gay marriage and opposing abortion however certainly is part of the doctrine of the Baptist, Pentecostal and Roman Catholic Churches.
If he cannot even stomach the Anglican Church, whose US and Welsh branches are already offering homosexual couples blessings, the idea he could stomach the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic Churches is laughable!
Exactly who is the he you are talking about.
If it's me I'm heading towards converting to Catholicism albeit towards the more liberal modern Irish view of Catholicism rather than the 18th century traditionalist approach.
I think he is talking about me. I lapsed from CofE and now am physically removed from it. I commented solely on being put off by massive hypocrites like him who claim piety whilst demonstrating no grasp of even the basic tenants of the church. Not sure how that makes me unable to stomach other churches.
The Anglican Church is about the most liberal Church there is, apart from maybe the Unitarian Church or the Methodists.
If you cannot even stomach the Church of England no way could you stomach a more conservative Evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional doctrine Roman Catholic Church given how left liberal you are
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You obviously don’t know much about the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic churches. Barring folk at the door is not part of their cultures.
Opposing gay marriage and opposing abortion however certainly is part of the doctrine of the Baptist, Pentecostal and Roman Catholic Churches.
If he cannot even stomach the Anglican Church, whose US and Welsh branches are already offering homosexual couples blessings, the idea he could stomach the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic Churches is laughable!
Exactly who is the he you are talking about.
If it's me I'm heading towards converting to Catholicism albeit towards the more liberal modern Irish view of Catholicism rather than the 18th century traditionalist approach.
I think he is talking about me. I lapsed from CofE and now am physically removed from it. I commented solely on being put off by massive hypocrites like him who claim piety whilst demonstrating no grasp of even the basic tenants of the church. Not sure how that makes me unable to stomach other churches.
The Anglican Church is about the most liberal Church there is, apart from maybe the Unitarian Church or the Methodists.
If you cannot even stomach the Church of England no way could you stomach a more conservative Evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional doctrine Roman Catholic Church given how left liberal you are
About the most liberal church there is? CofE doesn't even perform same-sex marriages (unlike many other christian denominations). That is pretty much the definition of illiberal. It's actually pretty disgusting that they are against human rights in that way.
Actually the US Episcopalian branch of the Anglican Church does perform same sex blessings as does the Church of Wales.
However no Baptist, Pentecostal or Roman Catholic or Greek or Russian Orthodox Churches , which make up the vast majority of Christian churches worldwide, perform even same sex blessings let alone same sex marriages
Actually, like I said, the Church of Engand doesn't.
I really doubt that no Baptist church perform same sex blessings.
Being slightly less bigoted than the majority is not evidence of being "the most liberal"
There are loads of churches that bless same sex marriages. For example, the majority of protestant churches in Germany do. Also the Netherlands. Denmark, Sweden, France, Norway etc etc etc
The CofE is actually pretty backward compared with the majority churches in western Europe, except the Roman Catholic church.
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
Jesus was a left of centre social democrat. He'd be comfortable with where Keir Starmer is positioning Labour.
Economically maybe, though the parable of the talents suggested he also backed work not welfare dependency even if he wanted to help the poor.
He was a social conservative however.
The Old Testament of course makes the current Tory manifesto look moderate
Sorry, Jesus was a social conservative??????
A man who overturned money lender tables in the temple, told the church leaders they were deeply wrong, led a faith revolution which literally overthrew the pagan gods and society of a Roman empire which ran the entire developed world and founded a movement which imposed itself over the top of every other faith and nation in Europe and half the globe was "a social conservative".
Have you ever actually read the Bible? Jesus...
Not just that. Someone who really wasn't bothered by the Nuclear Family. Someone who, presented with a woman caught in adultery, doodled in the sand for a bit, then said something important about who could cast the first stone.
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
So IOW, you take a quite relaxed view of your own behaviour, and seek to impose a rather more prescriptive one on everyone else ?
Sounds like he is on the right track for a meteoric rise in the Tory party then.
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You obviously don’t know much about the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic churches. Barring folk at the door is not part of their cultures.
Opposing gay marriage and opposing abortion however certainly is part of the doctrine of the Baptist, Pentecostal and Roman Catholic Churches.
If he cannot even stomach the Anglican Church, whose US and Welsh branches are already offering homosexual couples blessings, the idea he could stomach the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic Churches is laughable!
Exactly who is the he you are talking about.
If it's me I'm heading towards converting to Catholicism albeit towards the more liberal modern Irish view of Catholicism rather than the 18th century traditionalist approach.
I think he is talking about me. I lapsed from CofE and now am physically removed from it. I commented solely on being put off by massive hypocrites like him who claim piety whilst demonstrating no grasp of even the basic tenants of the church. Not sure how that makes me unable to stomach other churches.
The Anglican Church is about the most liberal Church there is, apart from maybe the Unitarian Church or the Methodists.
If you cannot even stomach the Church of England no way could you stomach a more conservative Evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional doctrine Roman Catholic Church given how left liberal you are
Morning all! Seems to be some confusion about whether the Gray report is coming out today or not - a mooted 3pm grilling for Peppa now looks less likely than before.
As for some of the late evening stuff on here, there is a reason I left the Church of England. Holier-than-thou sanctimonious hypocrites who endlessly whine on about the splinters in the eyes of everyone else whilst ignoring the Massive Plank in their own eye. The type who claim to be not only good moral people but Far Better than the likes of you and me whilst backing the very worst amoral unkind cruel things when not in church.
I don't pretend to be a Saint, everybody sins but as Christians you can still use the Bible as a guide for your life. Obviously you are so left liberal even a relatively liberal Christian Church like the Anglican Church is not left liberal enough for you (you obviously would not even get past the door in a more conservative evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional Roman Catholic Church) so no worries you are gone
You obviously don’t know much about the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic churches. Barring folk at the door is not part of their cultures.
Opposing gay marriage and opposing abortion however certainly is part of the doctrine of the Baptist, Pentecostal and Roman Catholic Churches.
If he cannot even stomach the Anglican Church, whose US and Welsh branches are already offering homosexual couples blessings, the idea he could stomach the Baptist, Pentecostal or Catholic Churches is laughable!
Exactly who is the he you are talking about.
If it's me I'm heading towards converting to Catholicism albeit towards the more liberal modern Irish view of Catholicism rather than the 18th century traditionalist approach.
I think he is talking about me. I lapsed from CofE and now am physically removed from it. I commented solely on being put off by massive hypocrites like him who claim piety whilst demonstrating no grasp of even the basic tenants of the church. Not sure how that makes me unable to stomach other churches.
The Anglican Church is about the most liberal Church there is, apart from maybe the Unitarian Church or the Methodists.
If you cannot even stomach the Church of England no way could you stomach a more conservative Evangelical Baptist or Pentecostal Church or the more traditional doctrine Roman Catholic Church given how left liberal you are
About the most liberal church there is? CofE doesn't even perform same-sex marriages (unlike many other christian denominations). That is pretty much the definition of illiberal. It's actually pretty disgusting that they are against human rights in that way.
Actually the US Episcopalian branch of the Anglican Church does perform same sex blessings as does the Church of Wales.
However no Baptist, Pentecostal or Roman Catholic or Greek or Russian Orthodox Churches , which make up the vast majority of Christian churches worldwide, perform even same sex blessings let alone same sex marriages
Actually, like I said, the Church of Engand doesn't.
I really doubt that no Baptist church perform same sex blessings.
Being slightly less bigoted than the majority is not evidence of being "the most liberal"
There are loads of churches that bless same sex marriages. For example, the majority of protestant churches in Germany do. Also the Netherlands. Denmark, Sweden, France, Norway etc etc etc
The CofE is actually pretty backward compared with the majority churches in western Europe, except the Roman Catholic church.
The Lutheran Church is less than 5% of the Christian Church worldwide, even smaller than the Anglican communion.
90% of Christians in France are Roman Catholic, as are a plurality of Christians in Germany too anyway. Most European Christians are either Roman Catholic or Greek or Russian Orthodox, not Lutheran
Comments
And Mogg's view of 'presidential' politics is anathema to parliamentary democracy.
The core principle of our constitution is that the PM derives his position from command of a majority in Parliament. There is absolutely no obligation for a general election if a PN is kicked out, and to suggest otherwise is to elevate the office above Parliament.
If that is their project, let them propose a constitutional amendment, and see how much support it gets. The arrogant entitled cabal needs putting in its place.
The Old Testament is also still a key part of the Christian Bible even if not the only religious book as it is for Jews and in part for Muslims
John Bull
@garius
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7m
I see Cosplay Thatcher is now trying to do an actual Thatcher voice as well.
John Bull
@garius
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3m
Compare with classic Liz, pre-Thatcher Senpai stage.
She's been coached to talk lower, slower and less expressively.
I presume in part by the old "move your mouth less" trick (I use it doing voice overs where I need to sound like a senior army officer).
I've named socially liberal passages with Christ.
Name a single, just one, Chapter and verse where Christ is socially conservative. Any at all would do.
You can't, because he wasn't.
'The image was met with anger by conservative church members and some politicians who condemned the marketing strategy as blasphemous for using a "violent Communist and atheist" to promote Jesus.
Tory MP Ann Widdecombe, who converted from the Church of England to Roman Catholicism some years previously, said: "We should be modelling ourselves on Christ, not modelling Christ on us."
Former Tory MP Harry Greenway, sponsor of the Conservative Christian Fellowship, described the poster as "grossly sacrilegious" and demanded that those responsible for it should be excommunicated.[6] He threatened to protest to the Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr George Carey, in the "strongest possible language".'
He goes to church.
Not that it is any of my business but I am amazed that he wants to be a part of a congregation (no matter how lovely they are as individuals) which is celebrating a belief system that actively discriminates against gay people.
There's nothing new about what Mogg says. Such attitudes have existed for as long as I've been an adult, if not longer, its just that people switch what they say to depend upon what their agenda is.
You have not named one passage where Jesus opposed marriage, advocated adultery and abortion, or even advocated homosexuality (though he was not clearly anti the latter as Paul was).
In any case my Christianity is based as much on much of the Old Testament as the New Testament ie the whole Bible
I despise him so much that I would make a pact with the devil to have Boris stay if JRM found himself destitute selling tricks down Bristol Docks.
- only going to a party for a short amount of time isn't a defence
- being surprised by a party and staying isn't a defence
- not realizing you're at a party or that it isn't legal isn't a defence
https://twitter.com/rupertmyers/status/1486277664939859971?s=21
If you look at what Christ actually says, as opposed to your imagination, then what he actually says would have made him very socially liberal for his day and age which he was a product of.
But you don't know Christ at all which is why you're incapable of naming a single socially conservative teaching that he gave. Because he wasn't, but you're not interested in Christ, you're just interested in your own views not his.
The Roman Catholic Church is top down and what the infallible Pope says applies to the whole Roman Catholic Church worldwide. The Pope is effectively an absolute monarch of the Roman Catholic Church assisted by his Cardinals who tells his priests what to preach
I like the church. I dislike congregants like you who piously claim holier than thou whilst having no clue about what the Church actually believes. You have posted some stuff this morning that is in direct contradiction of His teachings and of what the church ministry teach. And yet are still proclaiming your piety and my failings.
I'm chucking again as I type this. That Massive Plank in your eye really is blinding you. It explains quite a lot. And you keep making political comments about churches. What does political leanings have to do with faith? And its hardly like the CofE is a unified movement with no variations - massive differences between high church Anglo-Catholic ministry and Alpha Course Student Ministry evangelical outreach church and yet both are CofE. Same within holy mother church and the others you have disdained this morning.
Seriously. Luke 15:3. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke 15:3-7&version=NIV . Then think about what you are saying to me and @BartholomewRoberts and others. Its deeply tragic that you are this daft. But don't worry! Salvation is at hand - you just need to repent...
However no Baptist, Pentecostal or Roman Catholic or Greek or Russian Orthodox Churches , which make up the vast majority of Christian churches worldwide, perform even same sex blessings let alone same sex marriages
A new life thread awaits for the true believers (and also for everyone else).
Edit: And, indeed, a new life for the Tory party, if the thread is correct.
One might possibly argue if a new administration wished to introduce radically different policies that its mandate to do so might be questionable, but that's absolutely not the case simply for a change of PM.
A man who overturned money lender tables in the temple, told the church leaders they were deeply wrong, led a faith revolution which literally overthrew the pagan gods and society of a Roman empire which ran the entire developed world and founded a movement which imposed itself over the top of every other faith and nation in Europe and half the globe was "a social conservative".
Have you ever actually read the Bible? Jesus...
I really doubt that no Baptist church perform same sex blessings.
Being slightly less bigoted than the majority is not evidence of being "the most liberal"
There are loads of churches that bless same sex marriages. For example, the majority of protestant churches in Germany do. Also the Netherlands. Denmark, Sweden, France, Norway etc etc etc
The CofE is actually pretty backward compared with the majority churches in western Europe, except the Roman Catholic church.
90% of Christians in France are Roman Catholic, as are a plurality of Christians in Germany too anyway. Most European Christians are either Roman Catholic or Greek or Russian Orthodox, not Lutheran