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YouGov Favourability ratings: Johnson still beating Patel – politicalbetting.com

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  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,196
    edited January 14
    dixiedean said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    That's good.

    I really am not sure it is. Not working but partying all the time might be aspirational for many ... Witty, but ...
  • Scott_xP said:

    ...

    That actually makes the Tories look like the fun option. Not quite the intended effect.
    It certainly does - someone has misjudged that advert
  • I'm reading this article from July 2020 in The Times, which contains this.

    In the course of writing this article, I spoke to several of his friends, male and female — some of 30 years’ standing and some with whom he has been intimate. All requested anonymity. Overall, two unanimous and firmly held opinions immediately emerged.

    The first, that Andrew would have had no idea that the girls he met through Jeffrey Epstein were being trafficked and ordered to sleep with him; the second, that Andrew almost certainly did sleep with Virginia Roberts (an allegation he has strenuously denied). “Of course he did,” was everyone’s immediate answer. “He has always chased a shag,” said one, who should know, because she once shagged him herself.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/prince-andrews-sexual-appetite-was-always-his-blind-spot-nlwxtfwlv
  • kjhkjh Posts: 6,145
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    It really doesn’t look like a military jet in the video. It looks like exactly like a shiny silver missile or space rocket. Over Tooting

    It looks like a firework, if we can get past your friend's estimate that it was ten times bigger than a plane.
    The friend knows what a gullible mug SLeon is, and has spent a fun hour on Photoshop?

    That, or they are the only person in London who happened to notice the massive alien spaceship rising above Tooting.
    She has reassured me it’s not a wind up. The video is much more convincingly mysterious. She hasn’t got the tech skills to fake it

    OTOH she has just claimed the “air outside smells of sulphur dioxide” and she’s linked this to the government telling us all to stay indoors today BECAUSE THEY KNOW SOMETHING IS GOING ON
    Your friend isn't Moonshine by any chance?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 39,709
    IshmaelZ said:

    I think there's a good chance now that everywhere Johnson goes he is actually going to be boo-ed by the public. Or worse.

    I cannot imagine how he is going to front a GE campaign in 2024. Unless hiding for the five weeks counts as 'fronting'.

    The history books will note that the collapse began the day he starting wibbling about Peppa pig rather than business rates and training.

    Extraordinary to think Peppa Day was 22 November, less than 7 weeks ago. Feels a lifetime.
    That was the day that I made this crazy prediction:
    IanB2 said:



    I remain convinced that he'll eventually leave office discredited, or even disgraced, and will come to be seen as one of the most inadequate PMs of all time.

  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 13,533

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    That actually makes the Tories look like the fun option. Not quite the intended effect.
    I thought that. Labour has to be careful not to be seen as the boring hair shirts (they aren’t, as anyone who has witnessed the carnage at Labour conference will attest).
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 13,570
    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    FFS....

    Extinction Rebellion: Jury clears protesters dragged off train roof

    Last month, the Anglican priest admitted she was "surprised" to avoid jail for blocking the M25. She was one of seven members of Insulate Britain who were handed suspended sentences for breaching an injunction and being in contempt of court.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-59996870

    So we can't even claim well it was just one of those things she got a bit carried away. She already guilty of blocking motorways and has a suspended sentence against her. Clear pattern of behaviour.

    Perhaps jury trial, like democracy, has had its day

    I’m semi-serious. That’s another implication from Cummings’ blog. Democracy may be dying. If it is proved that other systems are better at delivering prosperity, peace and happiness is democracy intrinsically worry pursuing? Hence his (and my) fascination with Singapore

    And yes I get the irony that I voted Leavd ‘because democracy’ but the world is full of complex ironies

    FWIW I think democracy definitely IS finished, in the long term, thanks to AI. GPT37 will make decisions which are so much smarter and more strategic and less emotional than any politician - or Eurocrat, or CCP apparatchik - we will hand over all our governance to the machines
    Erm, isn't Singapore a democracy? Even if the same side always wins.
    Not as we know it.....

    Ranks below Philippines, Indonesia and Malaysia in SE Asia:

    https://freedomhouse.org/countries/freedom-world/scores?sort=desc&order=Total Score and Status
    It is also far richer than any of those, indeed it is one of the richest countries on the planet

    And it has zero crime

    I’ve said this before on PB: 90% of people, if offered a choice between life in rich, crime-free, not-very-democratic Singapore, or life in a less rich, more dangerous, properly democratic alternative, would choose Singapore

    Which is why Singapore is a challenge to liberal democracies (and liberalism) and why democracy is entirely doomed, long term. The super-computers will be the Singapore government on steroids. Cold, calculating, but phenomenally efficient at producing results
    Which is strange.
    Because Taiwan has quite a population of Singaporeans who have moved precisely cos they like a bit of dirt, danger, surprise and adventure in their life.
    I have never been to Taiwan. Hopefully will go some time.

    Singapore is fine, indeed admirable, if your thing is ineffable smugness and you are content nothing interesting will ever happen there. To be fair and without too much sarcasm, that suits lots of people.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 21,053
    UPDATE: Number 10 have just now admitted that this took place.

    They say Johnson “commuted” between Downing Street and Chequers in the period 16th March and 27th March 2020.

    Link updated with new story below.
    https://twitter.com/lara_spirit/status/1482001541284384768
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 26,661

    rcs1000 said:

    Benevolent dictatorship works when you have a competent benevolent dictator.

    The problem is that one day you'll end up with an average leader, and then another day you'll end up with a dreadful one, and no way of removing them.

    And there's no way to get around that. China had competent dictators based around 10 year terms. (Maybe 'benevolent' is a little generous, but still...)

    And then along came Xi and ripped that up and made himself President (sorry General Secretary) for life. Oh yeah, and also started acting belligerently to the rest of the world. If the Chinese people don't like this, there is exactly nothing they can do about it.

    How many stable benevolent dictatorships have there been over time?

    The point of democracy is that we can have a palace coup, minus the civil war and death, every 4-5 years.

    Part of the reason for the nastiness of many dictatorships is the Tiger Problem. When you are riding a tiger, the problem is what happens when you get off.

    As the philosopher said, "Remember, you are only President... for Life".
    Yes, exactly. Mind you, we shouldn't delude ourselves that we have a smoothly functioning democracy in which we all have equal influence. I remember a few years ago giving a talk about the British system to a Chinese academic delegation (no, I wasn't paid £300,000 - £500 was the going rate), who listened politely to my explanation of the advantages of multi-party choice (I was slightly surprised they were even willing to pay to listen to it). One asked, "If we asked average British citizens whether they felt they had a meaningful impact on government at any level?" I admitted "Only to a very limited extent" and asked him how the average Chinese citizen would respond. He smiled wryly and shrugged without replying.

    We are clearly more democratic than China and have more choice and far less retaliation against organised dissent. But it's so moderated by biased media, lack of serious information and £££ that it only really works in the sense that you say - to correct obvious disasters.
    That's all democracy is, unless you have the Swiss system. At which point the prolescum can overturn *anything* they want.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 49,564
    Scott_xP said:

    Re latest revelations one Tory Mp tells me “it’s been terminal now for some days”, another says it makes things “very much worse” and will “bring things forward”. They think MPs chatting to constituents this weekend will be left in no doubt about how bad things are.
    https://twitter.com/AnushkaAsthana/status/1482038565777326081

    Sunday's papers are going to be pure popcorn.

    There has to be more to come.

    The clock is definitely ticking.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 54,837
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    It really doesn’t look like a military jet in the video. It looks like exactly like a shiny silver missile or space rocket. Over Tooting

    It looks like a firework, if we can get past your friend's estimate that it was ten times bigger than a plane.
    It’s definitely not a firework. It’s a rocket (or a jet) of some kind. With a vapour trail.

    I would post the video but I’ve told her I’ll try and sell it to the daily mail for £50 first. If I fail I will post it here for the group opinion. A genuine mystery (tho I don’t think it is aliens)
    Might have more luck with the Express or Star ?
    Sunday Sport...
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 39,709
    Roger said:

    Its an interesting question. What is it about Patel that makes the dislike of her so visceral. She's a hanger and flogger without an ounce of compassion but that just makes her a Tory. She's been sacked twice for dishonesty but that's on the low side.

    So what are you left with.............

    A load of superfluous 'g's?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 19,049
    Russia invades Ukraine
    Royal Family on trial for rape
    UK Government collapses due to ceaseless illegal plague time bacchanals
    Alien rockets seen over Tooting


    And that’s just TODAY and it’s still not 6pm
  • ohnotnow said:

    On the subject of next Tory leader - I keep having the delicious thought of a triumphant PM Theresa May standing at the door of No.10 as Boris slopes off in a van.

    Theresa May back in Number 10 with her new chief of staff, Dominic Cummings.
    Excellent thought. I wonder if Johnson has to leave suddenly whether an interim PM that the Tory MPs can trust to leave office after a few months following a leadership election might not be a bad idea. I think a sudden departure is becoming more likely.
    I did suggest Theresa could be a stand in a couple of days ago, while the election took place

    And wouldn't she love it
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 49,564
    IshmaelZ said:

    I think there's a good chance now that everywhere Johnson goes he is actually going to be boo-ed by the public. Or worse.

    I cannot imagine how he is going to front a GE campaign in 2024. Unless hiding for the five weeks counts as 'fronting'.

    The history books will note that the collapse began the day he starting wibbling about Peppa pig rather than business rates and training.

    Extraordinary to think Peppa Day was 22 November, less than 7 weeks ago. Feels a lifetime.
    I think when we are finally shot of the lying charlatan we should make 22nd Nov a new national bank holiday.
  • Scott_xP said:

    ...

    That actually makes the Tories look like the fun option. Not quite the intended effect.
    It certainly does - someone has misjudged that advert
    It's not an advert, it is a mock up someone on the internet has created.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 19,486
    kle4 said:

    dixiedean said:

    I think there's a good chance now that everywhere Johnson goes he is actually going to be boo-ed by the public. Or worse.

    I cannot imagine how he is going to front a GE campaign in 2024. Unless hiding for the five weeks counts as 'fronting'.

    The history books will note that the collapse began the day he starting wibbling about Peppa pig rather than business rates and training.

    The collapse began with Paterson. The Peppa Pig was the first time he tried that schtick afterwards. And suddenly it wasn't eccentric and amusing.
    Even the dim fawners could see it for its cretinous stupidity.
    Though some were keen to point to its outstanding genius at the time ISTR. Because reasons. Own the Libs at the CBI or some such.
    Polling follows its own patterns sometimes, but Paterson was a real tipping point I think for a lot of people even irrespective of polling. There was just no reason to do what he did without sinister motivation, since the late u-turn and apology for getting things wrong rings insincere since they rejected the criticisms about it beforehand. It was a genuinely troubling action demonstrative of dislike of accountability, so blatant it caused a political blowback and setting of a storm with their own backbenchers.

    Two men's arrogance to do whatever they wanted, Paterson and Boris, causing tremendous harm.
    Yep.
    Also notable. The idea was cooked up with blokes from the Spectator. While plentiful booze was taken.
    Something of a theme.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,196

    IshmaelZ said:

    I think there's a good chance now that everywhere Johnson goes he is actually going to be boo-ed by the public. Or worse.

    I cannot imagine how he is going to front a GE campaign in 2024. Unless hiding for the five weeks counts as 'fronting'.

    The history books will note that the collapse began the day he starting wibbling about Peppa pig rather than business rates and training.

    Extraordinary to think Peppa Day was 22 November, less than 7 weeks ago. Feels a lifetime.
    I think when we are finally shot of the lying charlatan we should make 22nd Nov a new national bank holiday.
    It would be cool to have a national holiday called Peppa Pig Day so that we could explain that to Johnny Foreigner each year ...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 21,053
    Worthy of SeanT...

    Fancy a good and plausible conspiracy theory ?
    I tend to avoid them because they are normally just random fantastical things.
    I thought I would "make one up" but, me being me, It would have to have some degree of credibility.
    A sense of monkish depth.

    https://twitter.com/castlvillageman/status/1481245316229836812
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 20,921

    IshmaelZ said:

    I think there's a good chance now that everywhere Johnson goes he is actually going to be boo-ed by the public. Or worse.

    I cannot imagine how he is going to front a GE campaign in 2024. Unless hiding for the five weeks counts as 'fronting'.

    The history books will note that the collapse began the day he starting wibbling about Peppa pig rather than business rates and training.

    Extraordinary to think Peppa Day was 22 November, less than 7 weeks ago. Feels a lifetime.
    I think when we are finally shot of the lying charlatan we should make 22nd Nov a new national bank holiday.
    I was tempted to say that, but thought it was going too far. Would have to be E&W only as we have already got St Andrews's Day a week later than Peppa Pig Day.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 7,959

    I'm reading this article from July 2020 in The Times, which contains this.

    In the course of writing this article, I spoke to several of his friends, male and female — some of 30 years’ standing and some with whom he has been intimate. All requested anonymity. Overall, two unanimous and firmly held opinions immediately emerged.

    The first, that Andrew would have had no idea that the girls he met through Jeffrey Epstein were being trafficked and ordered to sleep with him; the second, that Andrew almost certainly did sleep with Virginia Roberts (an allegation he has strenuously denied). “Of course he did,” was everyone’s immediate answer. “He has always chased a shag,” said one, who should know, because she once shagged him herself.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/prince-andrews-sexual-appetite-was-always-his-blind-spot-nlwxtfwlv

    The man was known as Randy Andy FFS, it's not like the idea that he has "always chased a shag" should come as a massive shock to anyone.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 34,434

    Scott_xP said:

    Re latest revelations one Tory Mp tells me “it’s been terminal now for some days”, another says it makes things “very much worse” and will “bring things forward”. They think MPs chatting to constituents this weekend will be left in no doubt about how bad things are.
    https://twitter.com/AnushkaAsthana/status/1482038565777326081

    Sunday's papers are going to be pure popcorn.

    There has to be more to come.

    The clock is definitely ticking.
    I wonder. Obviously he is manifestly unfit to be PM but then he has been manifestly unfit to be PM for many years. Just ask @Theuniondivvie.

    And we are two years plus from the GE. I just wonder if they are going to hunker down and let time do its thing. And be successful to boot.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 39,709

    rcs1000 said:

    Benevolent dictatorship works when you have a competent benevolent dictator.

    The problem is that one day you'll end up with an average leader, and then another day you'll end up with a dreadful one, and no way of removing them.

    And there's no way to get around that. China had competent dictators based around 10 year terms. (Maybe 'benevolent' is a little generous, but still...)

    And then along came Xi and ripped that up and made himself President (sorry General Secretary) for life. Oh yeah, and also started acting belligerently to the rest of the world. If the Chinese people don't like this, there is exactly nothing they can do about it.

    How many stable benevolent dictatorships have there been over time?

    The point of democracy is that we can have a palace coup, minus the civil war and death, every 4-5 years.

    Part of the reason for the nastiness of many dictatorships is the Tiger Problem. When you are riding a tiger, the problem is what happens when you get off.

    As the philosopher said, "Remember, you are only President... for Life".
    Yes, exactly. Mind you, we shouldn't delude ourselves that we have a smoothly functioning democracy in which we all have equal influence. I remember a few years ago giving a talk about the British system to a Chinese academic delegation (no, I wasn't paid £300,000 - £500 was the going rate), who listened politely to my explanation of the advantages of multi-party choice (I was slightly surprised they were even willing to pay to listen to it). One asked, "If we asked average British citizens whether they felt they had a meaningful impact on government at any level?" I admitted "Only to a very limited extent" and asked him how the average Chinese citizen would respond. He smiled wryly and shrugged without replying.

    We are clearly more democratic than China and have more choice and far less retaliation against organised dissent. But it's so moderated by biased media, lack of serious information and £££ that it only really works in the sense that you say - to correct obvious disasters.
    TBF the object of democracy isn't so much that the voter feels influence but that the politician feels influenced.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 2,129
    Scott_xP said:

    UPDATE: Number 10 have just now admitted that this took place.

    They say Johnson “commuted” between Downing Street and Chequers in the period 16th March and 27th March 2020.

    Link updated with new story below.
    https://twitter.com/lara_spirit/status/1482001541284384768

    Rules are only for little people, part 2,788 in this week's series...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 21,053
    some reaction from people I met in Swindon yesterday:

    Noel Beauchamp, Tory-supporting entrepreneur:

    "It is a complete shambles and I think he should resign.

    He lies, he lies again and again and he’s dishonest.

    He won’t come clean so there is more to come I’m sure.”

    https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1482041994574766083
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 21,053
    Politics professor @robfordmancs: 'There's a good chance that, in the days to come, Boris Johnson is going to literally break records for unpopularity as a Prime Minister.'

    @eddiemair https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1482041874689015811/video/1
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 19,486
    TimT said:

    dixiedean said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    That's good.

    I really am not sure it is. Not working but partying all the time might be aspirational for many ... Witty, but ...
    Would have been better as Tories are Working.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 5,898

    COVID summary

    - Cases falling rapidly. R is below 1 in every region. The age vs R chart still fascinates -

    image

    - Admissions are flat - R is just below 1
    - MV beds are showing signs of an increasing rate of fall.
    - Deaths still going up

    image

    Well South Africa did seem to suggest something like this.

    The big question to me is why did cases peak at 200k a day? We had people suggesting a million per day. I'm sure the acceleration of the booster programme had an effect but is that it?

    Maybe the real infection rate is a lot higher than 200k a day. In which case CFR would have to be correspondingly lower.

    I'm more and more convinced that my relaxed attitude to omicron will prove correct.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 39,709
    TimT said:

    dixiedean said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    That's good.

    I really am not sure it is. Not working but partying all the time might be aspirational for many ... Witty, but ...
    And it could equally have been "The Tories are working..."
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 2,129
    Scott_xP said:

    Politics professor @robfordmancs: 'There's a good chance that, in the days to come, Boris Johnson is going to literally break records for unpopularity as a Prime Minister.'

    @eddiemair https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1482041874689015811/video/1

    I may be jumping to conclusions here @Scott_xP but I'm beginning to get the impression that you're rather enjoying all of this...?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 74,331
    pigeon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    UPDATE: Number 10 have just now admitted that this took place.

    They say Johnson “commuted” between Downing Street and Chequers in the period 16th March and 27th March 2020.

    Link updated with new story below.
    https://twitter.com/lara_spirit/status/1482001541284384768

    Rules are only for little people, part 2,788 in this week's series...
    I actually think it would be acceptable for the PM to not be bound to such a rule, I think the nature of the role requires flexibility in such a critical situation, but since they would not have made such an argument themselves, and did not attempt to justify not being so bound, it is no defence when they were urging everyone to follow the guidance, including themselves.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 21,053
    pigeon said:

    I may be jumping to conclusions here @Scott_xP but I'm beginning to get the impression that you're rather enjoying all of this...?

    How very dare you...
  • CookieCookie Posts: 6,189

    ohnotnow said:

    On the subject of next Tory leader - I keep having the delicious thought of a triumphant PM Theresa May standing at the door of No.10 as Boris slopes off in a van.

    Theresa May back in Number 10 with her new chief of staff, Dominic Cummings.
    Excellent thought. I wonder if Johnson has to leave suddenly whether an interim PM that the Tory MPs can trust to leave office after a few months following a leadership election might not be a bad idea. I think a sudden departure is becoming more likely.
    I did suggest Theresa could be a stand in a couple of days ago, while the election took place

    And wouldn't she love it
    I had had exactly the same thought.
  • I’m no monarchist, but aren’t these memes somewhat distasteful and cruel about a lady who has recently lost her husband?
    I agree and it is not respectful to the Queens pain
  • Scott_xP said:

    ...

    That actually makes the Tories look like the fun option. Not quite the intended effect.
    It certainly does - someone has misjudged that advert
    It's not an advert, it is a mock up someone on the internet has created.
    Fair enough
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 13,570
    .
    Scott_xP said:

    UPDATE: Number 10 have just now admitted that this took place.

    They say Johnson “commuted” between Downing Street and Chequers in the period 16th March and 27th March 2020.

    Link updated with new story below.
    https://twitter.com/lara_spirit/status/1482001541284384768

    I would give Johnson a break on that, if you accept 10 Downing Street is his place of work and it was essential for him to go there.
  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,842

    Booster shots uptake has really dropped off.

    Panic is over isn't it, people can see that omicron is 'nothing to worry about' and besides we've done christmas, so if you get it now its a week off/isolating/wfh...
    If you look at the other two jabs, there's a real inflection point around 55-60 %.

    graph
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 19,486
    Gary Neville's joined the Labour Party I see.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 21,053
    All civil servants were issued with strict guidance on how to behave following the Duke of Edinburgh’s death before two Downing Street leaving parties were held, The Telegraph can disclose https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/01/14/no-10-parties-civil-servants-received-strict-rules-behave-prince/?utm_content=politics&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1642181491-2
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 21,053
    attack ads set to be deployed by the Lib Dems in marginal Conservative “blue wall” seats https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1482044441015824393/photo/1


  • CookieCookie Posts: 6,189
    IanB2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Benevolent dictatorship works when you have a competent benevolent dictator.

    The problem is that one day you'll end up with an average leader, and then another day you'll end up with a dreadful one, and no way of removing them.

    And there's no way to get around that. China had competent dictators based around 10 year terms. (Maybe 'benevolent' is a little generous, but still...)

    And then along came Xi and ripped that up and made himself President (sorry General Secretary) for life. Oh yeah, and also started acting belligerently to the rest of the world. If the Chinese people don't like this, there is exactly nothing they can do about it.

    How many stable benevolent dictatorships have there been over time?

    The point of democracy is that we can have a palace coup, minus the civil war and death, every 4-5 years.

    Part of the reason for the nastiness of many dictatorships is the Tiger Problem. When you are riding a tiger, the problem is what happens when you get off.

    As the philosopher said, "Remember, you are only President... for Life".
    Yes, exactly. Mind you, we shouldn't delude ourselves that we have a smoothly functioning democracy in which we all have equal influence. I remember a few years ago giving a talk about the British system to a Chinese academic delegation (no, I wasn't paid £300,000 - £500 was the going rate), who listened politely to my explanation of the advantages of multi-party choice (I was slightly surprised they were even willing to pay to listen to it). One asked, "If we asked average British citizens whether they felt they had a meaningful impact on government at any level?" I admitted "Only to a very limited extent" and asked him how the average Chinese citizen would respond. He smiled wryly and shrugged without replying.

    We are clearly more democratic than China and have more choice and far less retaliation against organised dissent. But it's so moderated by biased media, lack of serious information and £££ that it only really works in the sense that you say - to correct obvious disasters.
    TBF the object of democracy isn't so much that the voter feels influence but that the politician feels influenced.
    I'm not sure I agree with Nick.
    I mean, there is only so much influence one person out of 68 million can have - but democracies are far, far, far better than non-democracies at giving people what they want.
    Now you might argue that what people want isn't necessarily what people should have. Working in the public sector I come across that view quite a lot. Occasionally I agree. But I would argue that what the public thinks they should have is a much better match for what they actually should have than what the state thinks they should have.
    I believe in democracy pretty much above everything else.
    Though that might have been tested had the 2019 GE gone the other way.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 21,053
    Has anyone heard from Tissue Price?

    I think it would look good on his CV if he was one of the 54...
  • Scott_xP said:

    Has anyone heard from Tissue Price?

    I think it would look good on his CV if he was one of the 54...

    Had a Whatsapp from him earlier.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 26,661

    COVID summary

    - Cases falling rapidly. R is below 1 in every region. The age vs R chart still fascinates -

    image

    - Admissions are flat - R is just below 1
    - MV beds are showing signs of an increasing rate of fall.
    - Deaths still going up

    image

    Well South Africa did seem to suggest something like this.

    The big question to me is why did cases peak at 200k a day? We had people suggesting a million per day. I'm sure the acceleration of the booster programme had an effect but is that it?

    Maybe the real infection rate is a lot higher than 200k a day. In which case CFR would have to be correspondingly lower.

    I'm more and more convinced that my relaxed attitude to omicron will prove correct.
    In every "crazy wave of COVID zooming to 1 trillion cases!", the reality was the peak was much, much earlier than that and infected only a small fraction of the population.

    After the first 3-5 ties, we should expect it, not be suprised.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 16,282
    edited January 14
    Danny Fink saying BJ has to resign on Radio 4. He's usually quite astute and he's unusual for a Tory in that he's not pompous.

    So it looks like this is curtains....

    HYUFD?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 6,189
    Cookie said:

    IanB2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Benevolent dictatorship works when you have a competent benevolent dictator.

    The problem is that one day you'll end up with an average leader, and then another day you'll end up with a dreadful one, and no way of removing them.

    And there's no way to get around that. China had competent dictators based around 10 year terms. (Maybe 'benevolent' is a little generous, but still...)

    And then along came Xi and ripped that up and made himself President (sorry General Secretary) for life. Oh yeah, and also started acting belligerently to the rest of the world. If the Chinese people don't like this, there is exactly nothing they can do about it.

    How many stable benevolent dictatorships have there been over time?

    The point of democracy is that we can have a palace coup, minus the civil war and death, every 4-5 years.

    Part of the reason for the nastiness of many dictatorships is the Tiger Problem. When you are riding a tiger, the problem is what happens when you get off.

    As the philosopher said, "Remember, you are only President... for Life".
    Yes, exactly. Mind you, we shouldn't delude ourselves that we have a smoothly functioning democracy in which we all have equal influence. I remember a few years ago giving a talk about the British system to a Chinese academic delegation (no, I wasn't paid £300,000 - £500 was the going rate), who listened politely to my explanation of the advantages of multi-party choice (I was slightly surprised they were even willing to pay to listen to it). One asked, "If we asked average British citizens whether they felt they had a meaningful impact on government at any level?" I admitted "Only to a very limited extent" and asked him how the average Chinese citizen would respond. He smiled wryly and shrugged without replying.

    We are clearly more democratic than China and have more choice and far less retaliation against organised dissent. But it's so moderated by biased media, lack of serious information and £££ that it only really works in the sense that you say - to correct obvious disasters.
    TBF the object of democracy isn't so much that the voter feels influence but that the politician feels influenced.
    I'm not sure I agree with Nick.
    I mean, there is only so much influence one person out of 68 million can have - but democracies are far, far, far better than non-democracies at giving people what they want.
    Now you might argue that what people want isn't necessarily what people should have. Working in the public sector I come across that view quite a lot. Occasionally I agree. But I would argue that what the public thinks they should have is a much better match for what they actually should have than what the state thinks they should have.
    I believe in democracy pretty much above everything else.
    Though that might have been tested had the 2019 GE gone the other way.
    Edit - just noticed Nick's 'at any level' comment.
    If you don't think you have any influence over your local council and you want some, it is pretty easy. Local councils are crying out for people to care about local government. In my experience pretty much any expression of interest not expressed insanely is welcomed.
  • Scott_xP said:

    It sounds pompous, but it’s the total disrespect for the office. You are working in Downing St ffs. For the actual prime minister. Get dressed properly and do some bloody work.

    Instead it’s all skinny jeans and trainers and shitposting and vanity photographers and piss-up.

    In 17 years in Westminster, I mostly had the idea that people working in government were largely trying their best (even the useless ones), were daunted by that black door, were grown ups running the country.

    Now it’s all wine o’clock and who gets a spin on Carrie’s lazy susan

    My benefit of the doubt. My assumption of a degree of competence. My willingness not to assume the worst of the British public. My determination not to be an anti-Tory rent-a-gob. All of that means trying to deny a gut feeling that he is appallingly unfit to be PM

    He degrades everything, all of the unwritten and written rules that make the system work; a thin-skinned, pathetic, lonely, underwhelming, unimaginative, disloyal, friendless narcissist.

    This isn’t an anti-Tory rant. Every Tory should be ashamed of what’s been done in their name


    https://twitter.com/MattChorley/status/1482031520336519173

    A commentator who seems to think that wearing a suit equates to competence. I think we all know messy devils who are brilliant at their job (especially in tech...), and people dressed smartly in suits who are just image.
    Many year ago, I worked for a tech start-up which was run by a man with a green mohawk and who wouldn't even wear a suit for his own wedding. But a quite brilliant individual.
    Here in Seattle that's SOP.

    Years ago a friend of mine was asked to help translate for a group of German business types who were looking to attract the interest of movers & shakers in the Seattle tech community. The Germans were all dressed in suit & tie, and made a point of schmoozing the Americans in the room who were similarly decked out.

    Which struck my friend as pretty funny. Because what he knew - and they were clueless about - was that the locals in suits were all middle-management flunky types working for the guys in jeans, plaid shirts and pile vests. The REAL big wigs - who the Germans either blew off or ignored entirely.

    Needless to say, they did NOT get the business they were seeking.

    HOWEVER, think that the knock on "skinny jeans" worn by Bullingtonian wannabes currently infesting Boris Johnson's (in)civil service, is only a VERY minor note to the commentator's critique.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 323
    Just had a Conservative councillor round canvassing. Very brave to be doing so this week!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 54,837
    attack ads set to be deployed by the Lib Dems in marginal Conservative “blue wall” seats



    https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1482044441015824393?s=20
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 44,589
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    FFS....

    Extinction Rebellion: Jury clears protesters dragged off train roof

    Last month, the Anglican priest admitted she was "surprised" to avoid jail for blocking the M25. She was one of seven members of Insulate Britain who were handed suspended sentences for breaching an injunction and being in contempt of court.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-59996870

    So we can't even claim well it was just one of those things she got a bit carried away. She already guilty of blocking motorways and has a suspended sentence against her. Clear pattern of behaviour.

    Perhaps jury trial, like democracy, has had its day

    I’m semi-serious. That’s another implication from Cummings’ blog. Democracy may be dying. If it is proved that other systems are better at delivering prosperity, peace and happiness is democracy intrinsically worry pursuing? Hence his (and my) fascination with Singapore

    And yes I get the irony that I voted Leavd ‘because democracy’ but the world is full of complex ironies

    FWIW I think democracy definitely IS finished, in the long term, thanks to AI. GPT37 will make decisions which are so much smarter and more strategic and less emotional than any politician - or Eurocrat, or CCP apparatchik - we will hand over all our governance to the machines
    GPT doesn't make decisions: it pattern matches.

    See for yourself. Go to http://claro-gpt2.uksouth.cloudapp.azure.com/ (which I admit is GPT2 based, but the principle is the same.).

    Now take your sentence - "FWIW I think democracy definitely IS finished, in the long term, thanks to AI. GPT37 will make decisions"

    And let's see how it does at producing something sensible:

    "FWIW I think democracy definitely IS finished, in the long term, thanks to AI. GPT37 will make decisions on the basis of the best interests of the people . I think it 's 's a a time good good good good good to to to to to for for have"

    Kinda good to the end of the sentence... And then utter gibberish.

    All these GPT "AIs" are just pattern matchers: they don't have any ability to reason.
    The difference between GPT2 and GPT3 is dumbfounding. The latter is so much “smarter”. After five or ten more iterations what will they be capable of achieving? The argument as to whether they are “intelligent” will be reduced to theology, they will certainly appear EXTREMELY intelligent, more so than us

    And it’s not “pattern matching” - it’s autocomplete, which is somewhat different
    Having a massive corpus of text, and using maths to predict the next word, sentence, etc. is not intelligence.

    It's just a parrot with a larger vocabulary.

    Now, there are amazing ways that AI/ML will change the world. But GPT3 isn't it. It's simply a party trick.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 13,809
    FF43 said:

    .

    Scott_xP said:

    UPDATE: Number 10 have just now admitted that this took place.

    They say Johnson “commuted” between Downing Street and Chequers in the period 16th March and 27th March 2020.

    Link updated with new story below.
    https://twitter.com/lara_spirit/status/1482001541284384768

    I would give Johnson a break on that, if you accept 10 Downing Street is his place of work and it was essential for him to go there.
    Yes not fussed about that one. And it was only the 26th anything became a law.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 20,921
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jan/14/johnsons-apology-to-the-queen-marks-a-new-low-for-a-prime-minister-

    "Long ago, the Victorian constitutional expert Walter Bagehot said the British monarch had three rights when meeting a prime minister: to be consulted, to encourage and to warn.

    Johnson has added another one to the list: the right to an apology."
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 6,160

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    That actually makes the Tories look like the fun option. Not quite the intended effect.
    If a conga line is your idea of fun, I'm not coming to any of your parties! ;)
  • MattWMattW Posts: 13,404

    Leon said:

    Alistair said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    FFS....

    Extinction Rebellion: Jury clears protesters dragged off train roof

    Last month, the Anglican priest admitted she was "surprised" to avoid jail for blocking the M25. She was one of seven members of Insulate Britain who were handed suspended sentences for breaching an injunction and being in contempt of court.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-59996870

    So we can't even claim well it was just one of those things she got a bit carried away. She already guilty of blocking motorways and has a suspended sentence against her. Clear pattern of behaviour.

    Perhaps jury trial, like democracy, has had its day

    I’m semi-serious. That’s another implication from Cummings’ blog. Democracy may be dying. If it is proved that other systems are better at delivering prosperity, peace and happiness is democracy intrinsically worry pursuing? Hence his (and my) fascination with Singapore

    And yes I get the irony that I voted Leavd ‘because democracy’ but the world is full of complex ironies

    FWIW I think democracy definitely IS finished, in the long term, thanks to AI. GPT37 will make decisions which are so much smarter and more strategic and less emotional than any politician - or Eurocrat, or CCP apparatchik - we will hand over all our governance to the machines
    GPT doesn't make decisions: it pattern matches.

    See for yourself. Go to http://claro-gpt2.uksouth.cloudapp.azure.com/ (which I admit is GPT2 based, but the principle is the same.).

    Now take your sentence - "FWIW I think democracy definitely IS finished, in the long term, thanks to AI. GPT37 will make decisions"

    And let's see how it does at producing something sensible:

    "FWIW I think democracy definitely IS finished, in the long term, thanks to AI. GPT37 will make decisions on the basis of the best interests of the people . I think it 's 's a a time good good good good good to to to to to for for have"

    Kinda good to the end of the sentence... And then utter gibberish.

    All these GPT "AIs" are just pattern matchers: they don't have any ability to reason.
    The difference between GPT2 and GPT3 is dumbfounding. The latter is so much “smarter”. After five or ten more iterations what will they be capable of achieving? The argument as to whether they are “intelligent” will be reduced to theology, they will certainly appear EXTREMELY intelligent, more so than us

    And it’s not “pattern matching” - it’s autocomplete, which is somewhat different
    Autocomplete works by pattern matching.
    Ok as we’re talking about AI and war and UFOs - kinda - a young female friend of mine in Tooting has just seen THIS





    She wears it is ten times bigger than a plane and it is going STRAIGHT UP. Like a space rocket or a missile. There’s a short video as well, which proves this.

    Wtf is that? Do we have a secret space base in Tooting?

    I’m pleasantly flummoxed. Any ideas? Optical illusion? Plane seen at a weird angle?
    Could be anything; angles can be very hard to discern in the sky, especially with a low sun. One thing it won't be is an alien taking an intense interest in Tooting.

    Can you remember the Norwegian spirals in the sky?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5_8MVctp30

    As an aside, have you checked your stocks? Might it be a hand-crated flint object that's trying to escape its ultimate destiny in deep, dark holes?
    Hope you aren't in EDF...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 21,053

    FF43 said:

    .

    Scott_xP said:

    UPDATE: Number 10 have just now admitted that this took place.

    They say Johnson “commuted” between Downing Street and Chequers in the period 16th March and 27th March 2020.

    Link updated with new story below.
    https://twitter.com/lara_spirit/status/1482001541284384768

    I would give Johnson a break on that, if you accept 10 Downing Street is his place of work and it was essential for him to go there.
    Yes not fussed about that one. And it was only the 26th anything became a law.
    After 18 months of @tortoise pursuing this story it's clear to me that Downing St is committed to telling the truth as a last resort
    https://twitter.com/CeriThomas01/status/1482041849292414976
    https://twitter.com/lara_spirit/status/1482039865856385024
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 36,434
    Leon said:

    Alistair said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    FFS....

    Extinction Rebellion: Jury clears protesters dragged off train roof

    Last month, the Anglican priest admitted she was "surprised" to avoid jail for blocking the M25. She was one of seven members of Insulate Britain who were handed suspended sentences for breaching an injunction and being in contempt of court.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-59996870

    So we can't even claim well it was just one of those things she got a bit carried away. She already guilty of blocking motorways and has a suspended sentence against her. Clear pattern of behaviour.

    Perhaps jury trial, like democracy, has had its day

    I’m semi-serious. That’s another implication from Cummings’ blog. Democracy may be dying. If it is proved that other systems are better at delivering prosperity, peace and happiness is democracy intrinsically worry pursuing? Hence his (and my) fascination with Singapore

    And yes I get the irony that I voted Leavd ‘because democracy’ but the world is full of complex ironies

    FWIW I think democracy definitely IS finished, in the long term, thanks to AI. GPT37 will make decisions which are so much smarter and more strategic and less emotional than any politician - or Eurocrat, or CCP apparatchik - we will hand over all our governance to the machines
    GPT doesn't make decisions: it pattern matches.

    See for yourself. Go to http://claro-gpt2.uksouth.cloudapp.azure.com/ (which I admit is GPT2 based, but the principle is the same.).

    Now take your sentence - "FWIW I think democracy definitely IS finished, in the long term, thanks to AI. GPT37 will make decisions"

    And let's see how it does at producing something sensible:

    "FWIW I think democracy definitely IS finished, in the long term, thanks to AI. GPT37 will make decisions on the basis of the best interests of the people . I think it 's 's a a time good good good good good to to to to to for for have"

    Kinda good to the end of the sentence... And then utter gibberish.

    All these GPT "AIs" are just pattern matchers: they don't have any ability to reason.
    The difference between GPT2 and GPT3 is dumbfounding. The latter is so much “smarter”. After five or ten more iterations what will they be capable of achieving? The argument as to whether they are “intelligent” will be reduced to theology, they will certainly appear EXTREMELY intelligent, more so than us

    And it’s not “pattern matching” - it’s autocomplete, which is somewhat different
    Autocomplete works by pattern matching.
    Ok as we’re talking about AI and war and UFOs - kinda - a young female friend of mine in Tooting has just seen THIS





    She wears it is ten times bigger than a plane and it is going STRAIGHT UP. Like a space rocket or a missile. There’s a short video as well, which proves this.

    Wtf is that? Do we have a secret space base in Tooting?

    I’m pleasantly flummoxed. Any ideas? Optical illusion? Plane seen at a weird angle?
    She is either gaga or suitcased
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 26,661

    Booster shots uptake has really dropped off.

    Panic is over isn't it, people can see that omicron is 'nothing to worry about' and besides we've done christmas, so if you get it now its a week off/isolating/wfh...
    If you look at the other two jabs, there's a real inflection point around 55-60 %.

    graph
    The reason for the tail off becomes clearer when you look at the age breakdowns.

    The following is the number of 3rd vaccination left to do for England & Scotland - define as number of each group who have had a second more than 90 days ago, but haven't had a third....

    18 29 2,633,137
    30 39 2,201,572
    40 49 1,538,896
    50 54 563,313
    55 59 432,179
    60 64 267,718
    65 69 155,743
    70 74 108,940
    75 79 75,123
    80+ 138,419

    It is the 50+ take-up which is critical.
  • Roger said:

    Its an interesting question. What is it about Patel that makes the dislike of her so visceral. She's a hanger and flogger without an ounce of compassion but that just makes her a Tory. She's been sacked twice for dishonesty but that's on the low side.

    So what are you left with.............

    I know what you’re alluding to, and no doubt that, sadly, will be a factor. But It’s the smirk for me. On top of the fact that she’s a compassionless hanger and flogger. That self-satisfied smirk really riles me.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 44,589

    rcs1000 said:

    Benevolent dictatorship works when you have a competent benevolent dictator.

    The problem is that one day you'll end up with an average leader, and then another day you'll end up with a dreadful one, and no way of removing them.

    And there's no way to get around that. China had competent dictators based around 10 year terms. (Maybe 'benevolent' is a little generous, but still...)

    And then along came Xi and ripped that up and made himself President (sorry General Secretary) for life. Oh yeah, and also started acting belligerently to the rest of the world. If the Chinese people don't like this, there is exactly nothing they can do about it.

    How many stable benevolent dictatorships have there been over time?

    The point of democracy is that we can have a palace coup, minus the civil war and death, every 4-5 years.

    Part of the reason for the nastiness of many dictatorships is the Tiger Problem. When you are riding a tiger, the problem is what happens when you get off.

    As the philosopher said, "Remember, you are only President... for Life".
    Yes, exactly. Mind you, we shouldn't delude ourselves that we have a smoothly functioning democracy in which we all have equal influence. I remember a few years ago giving a talk about the British system to a Chinese academic delegation (no, I wasn't paid £300,000 - £500 was the going rate), who listened politely to my explanation of the advantages of multi-party choice (I was slightly surprised they were even willing to pay to listen to it). One asked, "If we asked average British citizens whether they felt they had a meaningful impact on government at any level?" I admitted "Only to a very limited extent" and asked him how the average Chinese citizen would respond. He smiled wryly and shrugged without replying.

    We are clearly more democratic than China and have more choice and far less retaliation against organised dissent. But it's so moderated by biased media, lack of serious information and £££ that it only really works in the sense that you say - to correct obvious disasters.
    Many moons ago, Goldman Sachs did a conference, and Gavyn Davis stood up and said

    "I have spent the last two weeks in China, and it is very clear that the Chinese people do not want democracy."

    and then Peter Sutherland's turn came, and he said:

    "I am so glad that Gavyn's meetings with high up members of the Chinese Communist Party have given him such crucial insights into the minds of the Chinese people."
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 5,898
    Prime ministers don't normally commute from chequers.

    The problem is that the public are likely to think of it as a second home.

    Anyway given the mountain of allegations the prime minister finds himself dealing with, it's only one more to add to the pile.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 19,049
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    FFS....

    Extinction Rebellion: Jury clears protesters dragged off train roof

    Last month, the Anglican priest admitted she was "surprised" to avoid jail for blocking the M25. She was one of seven members of Insulate Britain who were handed suspended sentences for breaching an injunction and being in contempt of court.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-59996870

    So we can't even claim well it was just one of those things she got a bit carried away. She already guilty of blocking motorways and has a suspended sentence against her. Clear pattern of behaviour.

    Perhaps jury trial, like democracy, has had its day

    I’m semi-serious. That’s another implication from Cummings’ blog. Democracy may be dying. If it is proved that other systems are better at delivering prosperity, peace and happiness is democracy intrinsically worry pursuing? Hence his (and my) fascination with Singapore

    And yes I get the irony that I voted Leavd ‘because democracy’ but the world is full of complex ironies

    FWIW I think democracy definitely IS finished, in the long term, thanks to AI. GPT37 will make decisions which are so much smarter and more strategic and less emotional than any politician - or Eurocrat, or CCP apparatchik - we will hand over all our governance to the machines
    GPT doesn't make decisions: it pattern matches.

    See for yourself. Go to http://claro-gpt2.uksouth.cloudapp.azure.com/ (which I admit is GPT2 based, but the principle is the same.).

    Now take your sentence - "FWIW I think democracy definitely IS finished, in the long term, thanks to AI. GPT37 will make decisions"

    And let's see how it does at producing something sensible:

    "FWIW I think democracy definitely IS finished, in the long term, thanks to AI. GPT37 will make decisions on the basis of the best interests of the people . I think it 's 's a a time good good good good good to to to to to for for have"

    Kinda good to the end of the sentence... And then utter gibberish.

    All these GPT "AIs" are just pattern matchers: they don't have any ability to reason.
    The difference between GPT2 and GPT3 is dumbfounding. The latter is so much “smarter”. After five or ten more iterations what will they be capable of achieving? The argument as to whether they are “intelligent” will be reduced to theology, they will certainly appear EXTREMELY intelligent, more so than us

    And it’s not “pattern matching” - it’s autocomplete, which is somewhat different
    Having a massive corpus of text, and using maths to predict the next word, sentence, etc. is not intelligence.

    It's just a parrot with a larger vocabulary.

    Now, there are amazing ways that AI/ML will change the world. But GPT3 isn't it. It's simply a party trick.
    We’ve already had this debate on PB multiple times, and, TBH, at a much more sophisticated level than the point you are making here
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 39,709
    Roger said:

    Danny Fink saying BJ has to resign on Radio 4. He's usually quite astute and he's unusual for a Tory in that he's not pompous.

    So it looks like this is curtains....

    HYUFD?

    He took an admirably principled position, and called on other Conservatives to do the same.

    Danny, that is, obvs.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 22,065

    File under "You could not make it up"

    EXCLUSIVE :

    Kate Josephs, the former head of the Government unit responsible for drawing covid-19 restrictions, was given a leaving do in the Cabinet Office on December 17 2020 - the day before the Number 10 Xmas Party


    https://twitter.com/HarryYorke1/status/1482014927577624583?s=20

    In The Telegraph....

    At this rate the civil service is going to come out of this with an even worse reputation than Boris.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 6,160
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    It really doesn’t look like a military jet in the video. It looks like exactly like a shiny silver missile or space rocket. Over Tooting

    It looks like a firework, if we can get past your friend's estimate that it was ten times bigger than a plane.
    It’s definitely not a firework. It’s a rocket (or a jet) of some kind. With a vapour trail.

    I would post the video but I’ve told her I’ll try and sell it to the daily mail for £50 first. If I fail I will post it here for the group opinion. A genuine mystery (tho I don’t think it is aliens)
    I think the chemtrails have softened your brain
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 51,297
    edited January 14
    IanB2 said:

    Roger said:

    Danny Fink saying BJ has to resign on Radio 4. He's usually quite astute and he's unusual for a Tory in that he's not pompous.

    So it looks like this is curtains....

    HYUFD?

    He took an admirably principled position, and called on other Conservatives to do the same.

    Danny, that is, obvs.
    @MoonRabbit and my suggestion Boris will be gone in a few weeks is looking more than likely each day
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 13,809
    Cyclefree said:

    File under "You could not make it up"

    EXCLUSIVE :

    Kate Josephs, the former head of the Government unit responsible for drawing covid-19 restrictions, was given a leaving do in the Cabinet Office on December 17 2020 - the day before the Number 10 Xmas Party


    https://twitter.com/HarryYorke1/status/1482014927577624583?s=20

    In The Telegraph....

    At this rate the civil service is going to come out of this with an even worse reputation than Boris.
    Sunak leadership campaign to include no alcohol at work in government buildings?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 22,192
    Amazed no suitcase manufacturer has yet to put out a tweet with the bottle carrying capacity of their products yet.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 26,661
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Benevolent dictatorship works when you have a competent benevolent dictator.

    The problem is that one day you'll end up with an average leader, and then another day you'll end up with a dreadful one, and no way of removing them.

    And there's no way to get around that. China had competent dictators based around 10 year terms. (Maybe 'benevolent' is a little generous, but still...)

    And then along came Xi and ripped that up and made himself President (sorry General Secretary) for life. Oh yeah, and also started acting belligerently to the rest of the world. If the Chinese people don't like this, there is exactly nothing they can do about it.

    How many stable benevolent dictatorships have there been over time?

    The point of democracy is that we can have a palace coup, minus the civil war and death, every 4-5 years.

    Part of the reason for the nastiness of many dictatorships is the Tiger Problem. When you are riding a tiger, the problem is what happens when you get off.

    As the philosopher said, "Remember, you are only President... for Life".
    Yes, exactly. Mind you, we shouldn't delude ourselves that we have a smoothly functioning democracy in which we all have equal influence. I remember a few years ago giving a talk about the British system to a Chinese academic delegation (no, I wasn't paid £300,000 - £500 was the going rate), who listened politely to my explanation of the advantages of multi-party choice (I was slightly surprised they were even willing to pay to listen to it). One asked, "If we asked average British citizens whether they felt they had a meaningful impact on government at any level?" I admitted "Only to a very limited extent" and asked him how the average Chinese citizen would respond. He smiled wryly and shrugged without replying.

    We are clearly more democratic than China and have more choice and far less retaliation against organised dissent. But it's so moderated by biased media, lack of serious information and £££ that it only really works in the sense that you say - to correct obvious disasters.
    Many moons ago, Goldman Sachs did a conference, and Gavyn Davis stood up and said

    "I have spent the last two weeks in China, and it is very clear that the Chinese people do not want democracy."

    and then Peter Sutherland's turn came, and he said:

    "I am so glad that Gavyn's meetings with high up members of the Chinese Communist Party have given him such crucial insights into the minds of the Chinese people."
    I told a friend who failed to get into Goldmans that he'd obviously answered the "Would you sell your grandmother?" question wrong.

    In case anyone wonders - the correct answer is

    "No. Selling your grandmother would create an immediate tax liability. Instead, you setup an OTC market in Collateralised Grandparent Default Swaps and sell the instruments to Belgian widows and orphans"
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 39,709

    Prime ministers don't normally commute from chequers.

    The problem is that the public are likely to think of it as a second home.

    Anyway given the mountain of allegations the prime minister finds himself dealing with, it's only one more to add to the pile.

    It's notable because it suggests that a fair few people now are spilling the beans.

    My guess is that junior staff in Downing Street can see the politicians manoevering to dump the ordure on the staff and are consequently brave enough to try and shunt some blame back where it belongs.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 26,661
    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Alistair said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    FFS....

    Extinction Rebellion: Jury clears protesters dragged off train roof

    Last month, the Anglican priest admitted she was "surprised" to avoid jail for blocking the M25. She was one of seven members of Insulate Britain who were handed suspended sentences for breaching an injunction and being in contempt of court.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-59996870

    So we can't even claim well it was just one of those things she got a bit carried away. She already guilty of blocking motorways and has a suspended sentence against her. Clear pattern of behaviour.

    Perhaps jury trial, like democracy, has had its day

    I’m semi-serious. That’s another implication from Cummings’ blog. Democracy may be dying. If it is proved that other systems are better at delivering prosperity, peace and happiness is democracy intrinsically worry pursuing? Hence his (and my) fascination with Singapore

    And yes I get the irony that I voted Leavd ‘because democracy’ but the world is full of complex ironies

    FWIW I think democracy definitely IS finished, in the long term, thanks to AI. GPT37 will make decisions which are so much smarter and more strategic and less emotional than any politician - or Eurocrat, or CCP apparatchik - we will hand over all our governance to the machines
    GPT doesn't make decisions: it pattern matches.

    See for yourself. Go to http://claro-gpt2.uksouth.cloudapp.azure.com/ (which I admit is GPT2 based, but the principle is the same.).

    Now take your sentence - "FWIW I think democracy definitely IS finished, in the long term, thanks to AI. GPT37 will make decisions"

    And let's see how it does at producing something sensible:

    "FWIW I think democracy definitely IS finished, in the long term, thanks to AI. GPT37 will make decisions on the basis of the best interests of the people . I think it 's 's a a time good good good good good to to to to to for for have"

    Kinda good to the end of the sentence... And then utter gibberish.

    All these GPT "AIs" are just pattern matchers: they don't have any ability to reason.
    The difference between GPT2 and GPT3 is dumbfounding. The latter is so much “smarter”. After five or ten more iterations what will they be capable of achieving? The argument as to whether they are “intelligent” will be reduced to theology, they will certainly appear EXTREMELY intelligent, more so than us

    And it’s not “pattern matching” - it’s autocomplete, which is somewhat different
    Autocomplete works by pattern matching.
    Ok as we’re talking about AI and war and UFOs - kinda - a young female friend of mine in Tooting has just seen THIS





    She wears it is ten times bigger than a plane and it is going STRAIGHT UP. Like a space rocket or a missile. There’s a short video as well, which proves this.

    Wtf is that? Do we have a secret space base in Tooting?

    I’m pleasantly flummoxed. Any ideas? Optical illusion? Plane seen at a weird angle?
    She is either gaga or suitcased
    Why not both? Have you checked the supply of cask strength turnip juice? Someone may have been siphoning from the barrel??

    Feeling better?
  • Cyclefree said:

    File under "You could not make it up"

    EXCLUSIVE :

    Kate Josephs, the former head of the Government unit responsible for drawing covid-19 restrictions, was given a leaving do in the Cabinet Office on December 17 2020 - the day before the Number 10 Xmas Party


    https://twitter.com/HarryYorke1/status/1482014927577624583?s=20

    In The Telegraph....

    At this rate the civil service is going to come out of this with an even worse reputation than Boris.
    It raises serious questions on their culture and just how long this has been going on

    A poster earlier said it was in 2017 and I have no doubt employment law will have to address this
  • LeonLeon Posts: 19,049
    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    It really doesn’t look like a military jet in the video. It looks like exactly like a shiny silver missile or space rocket. Over Tooting

    It looks like a firework, if we can get past your friend's estimate that it was ten times bigger than a plane.
    It’s definitely not a firework. It’s a rocket (or a jet) of some kind. With a vapour trail.

    I would post the video but I’ve told her I’ll try and sell it to the daily mail for £50 first. If I fail I will post it here for the group opinion. A genuine mystery (tho I don’t think it is aliens)
    I think the chemtrails have softened your brain
    Update on Tooting-gate.

    She says the object was to the southwest of Tooting. In the video it looks big and stable (so not a firework) - definitely some kind of aircraft with a vapour trail?

    So then the best bet is a military jet making a very speedy and vertical ascent somewhere in far SW London or Surrey, and the unusual low sunlight makes the jet look like a missile

    Any RAF bods here? Do we have many active military airfields in Surrey?
  • Alistair said:

    Amazed no suitcase manufacturer has yet to put out a tweet with the bottle carrying capacity of their products yet.

    All my Samsonite products already list the litre capacity of them.
  • eekeek Posts: 18,777

    Cyclefree said:

    File under "You could not make it up"

    EXCLUSIVE :

    Kate Josephs, the former head of the Government unit responsible for drawing covid-19 restrictions, was given a leaving do in the Cabinet Office on December 17 2020 - the day before the Number 10 Xmas Party


    https://twitter.com/HarryYorke1/status/1482014927577624583?s=20

    In The Telegraph....

    At this rate the civil service is going to come out of this with an even worse reputation than Boris.
    Sunak leadership campaign to include no alcohol at work in government buildings?
    Should be the case anyway - this isn't the 1980s...
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 19,486
    edited January 14
    Thing is the fear has gone.
    Fear of COVID. Fear of Boris.
    I don't think the two are unconnected.
    Every last person he's intimidated and shafted on the way up will want a kick to the balls while he's down.
    Expect a lot more on his behaviour and way of doing business.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 26,661
    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    It really doesn’t look like a military jet in the video. It looks like exactly like a shiny silver missile or space rocket. Over Tooting

    It looks like a firework, if we can get past your friend's estimate that it was ten times bigger than a plane.
    It’s definitely not a firework. It’s a rocket (or a jet) of some kind. With a vapour trail.

    I would post the video but I’ve told her I’ll try and sell it to the daily mail for £50 first. If I fail I will post it here for the group opinion. A genuine mystery (tho I don’t think it is aliens)
    I think the chemtrails have softened your brain
    Update on Tooting-gate.

    She says the object was to the southwest of Tooting. In the video it looks big and stable (so not a firework) - definitely some kind of aircraft with a vapour trail?

    So then the best bet is a military jet making a very speedy and vertical ascent somewhere in far SW London or Surrey, and the unusual low sunlight makes the jet look like a missile

    Any RAF bods here? Do we have many active military airfields in Surrey?
    Has she watched this instructional video? - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMiKyfd6hA0
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 36,434

    malcolmg said:

    As a rich liberal remainer, grateful for some advice. Rather than getting my coffee made by a Romanian, I made eight cups of tea today for the working class English people building something for me in the garden. And two cheese toasties. I also failed to tell them to work harder, as they seem to be working fairly hard without my input. Am I doing this wrong?

    Yes. Should have been eight cheese toasties.
    Miserable git indeed, a quarter of a cheese toastie per head
    Malcolm there were two guys. I made them a cheese toastie each. They also had a caramel wafer and a packet of crisps!
    @OnlyLivingBoy
    I know I was jesting , re you saying 8 cups of tea and two toasties.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 22,192
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    FFS....

    Extinction Rebellion: Jury clears protesters dragged off train roof

    Last month, the Anglican priest admitted she was "surprised" to avoid jail for blocking the M25. She was one of seven members of Insulate Britain who were handed suspended sentences for breaching an injunction and being in contempt of court.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-59996870

    So we can't even claim well it was just one of those things she got a bit carried away. She already guilty of blocking motorways and has a suspended sentence against her. Clear pattern of behaviour.

    Perhaps jury trial, like democracy, has had its day

    I’m semi-serious. That’s another implication from Cummings’ blog. Democracy may be dying. If it is proved that other systems are better at delivering prosperity, peace and happiness is democracy intrinsically worry pursuing? Hence his (and my) fascination with Singapore

    And yes I get the irony that I voted Leavd ‘because democracy’ but the world is full of complex ironies

    FWIW I think democracy definitely IS finished, in the long term, thanks to AI. GPT37 will make decisions which are so much smarter and more strategic and less emotional than any politician - or Eurocrat, or CCP apparatchik - we will hand over all our governance to the machines
    GPT doesn't make decisions: it pattern matches.

    See for yourself. Go to http://claro-gpt2.uksouth.cloudapp.azure.com/ (which I admit is GPT2 based, but the principle is the same.).

    Now take your sentence - "FWIW I think democracy definitely IS finished, in the long term, thanks to AI. GPT37 will make decisions"

    And let's see how it does at producing something sensible:

    "FWIW I think democracy definitely IS finished, in the long term, thanks to AI. GPT37 will make decisions on the basis of the best interests of the people . I think it 's 's a a time good good good good good to to to to to for for have"

    Kinda good to the end of the sentence... And then utter gibberish.

    All these GPT "AIs" are just pattern matchers: they don't have any ability to reason.
    The difference between GPT2 and GPT3 is dumbfounding. The latter is so much “smarter”. After five or ten more iterations what will they be capable of achieving? The argument as to whether they are “intelligent” will be reduced to theology, they will certainly appear EXTREMELY intelligent, more so than us

    And it’s not “pattern matching” - it’s autocomplete, which is somewhat different
    Having a massive corpus of text, and using maths to predict the next word, sentence, etc. is not intelligence.

    It's just a parrot with a larger vocabulary.

    Now, there are amazing ways that AI/ML will change the world. But GPT3 isn't it. It's simply a party trick.
    We’ve already had this debate on PB multiple times, and, TBH, at a much more sophisticated level than the point you are making here
    Gpt-3 is fundamentally gpt-2 with more time (money) spent training it.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 6,189
    dixiedean said:

    Gary Neville's joined the Labour Party I see.

    Not selling it to me...
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 7,153

    Cyclefree said:

    File under "You could not make it up"

    EXCLUSIVE :

    Kate Josephs, the former head of the Government unit responsible for drawing covid-19 restrictions, was given a leaving do in the Cabinet Office on December 17 2020 - the day before the Number 10 Xmas Party


    https://twitter.com/HarryYorke1/status/1482014927577624583?s=20

    In The Telegraph....

    At this rate the civil service is going to come out of this with an even worse reputation than Boris.
    It raises serious questions on their culture and just how long this has been going on

    A poster earlier said it was in 2017 and I have no doubt employment law will have to address this
    Why? It’s perfectly permissible for an employer to ban the consumption of alcohol on its premises at any time. Why do we have to legislate for terrible employers with awful cultures?
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 6,160
    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    It really doesn’t look like a military jet in the video. It looks like exactly like a shiny silver missile or space rocket. Over Tooting

    It looks like a firework, if we can get past your friend's estimate that it was ten times bigger than a plane.
    It’s definitely not a firework. It’s a rocket (or a jet) of some kind. With a vapour trail.

    I would post the video but I’ve told her I’ll try and sell it to the daily mail for £50 first. If I fail I will post it here for the group opinion. A genuine mystery (tho I don’t think it is aliens)
    I think the chemtrails have softened your brain
    Update on Tooting-gate.

    She says the object was to the southwest of Tooting. In the video it looks big and stable (so not a firework) - definitely some kind of aircraft with a vapour trail?

    So then the best bet is a military jet making a very speedy and vertical ascent somewhere in far SW London or Surrey, and the unusual low sunlight makes the jet look like a missile

    Any RAF bods here? Do we have many active military airfields in Surrey?
    It's not Woking is it?
    I read a book set there once.
    My advice is to get to the coast NOW.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 44,589
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    FFS....

    Extinction Rebellion: Jury clears protesters dragged off train roof

    Last month, the Anglican priest admitted she was "surprised" to avoid jail for blocking the M25. She was one of seven members of Insulate Britain who were handed suspended sentences for breaching an injunction and being in contempt of court.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-59996870

    So we can't even claim well it was just one of those things she got a bit carried away. She already guilty of blocking motorways and has a suspended sentence against her. Clear pattern of behaviour.

    Perhaps jury trial, like democracy, has had its day

    I’m semi-serious. That’s another implication from Cummings’ blog. Democracy may be dying. If it is proved that other systems are better at delivering prosperity, peace and happiness is democracy intrinsically worry pursuing? Hence his (and my) fascination with Singapore

    And yes I get the irony that I voted Leavd ‘because democracy’ but the world is full of complex ironies

    FWIW I think democracy definitely IS finished, in the long term, thanks to AI. GPT37 will make decisions which are so much smarter and more strategic and less emotional than any politician - or Eurocrat, or CCP apparatchik - we will hand over all our governance to the machines
    GPT doesn't make decisions: it pattern matches.

    See for yourself. Go to http://claro-gpt2.uksouth.cloudapp.azure.com/ (which I admit is GPT2 based, but the principle is the same.).

    Now take your sentence - "FWIW I think democracy definitely IS finished, in the long term, thanks to AI. GPT37 will make decisions"

    And let's see how it does at producing something sensible:

    "FWIW I think democracy definitely IS finished, in the long term, thanks to AI. GPT37 will make decisions on the basis of the best interests of the people . I think it 's 's a a time good good good good good to to to to to for for have"

    Kinda good to the end of the sentence... And then utter gibberish.

    All these GPT "AIs" are just pattern matchers: they don't have any ability to reason.
    The difference between GPT2 and GPT3 is dumbfounding. The latter is so much “smarter”. After five or ten more iterations what will they be capable of achieving? The argument as to whether they are “intelligent” will be reduced to theology, they will certainly appear EXTREMELY intelligent, more so than us

    And it’s not “pattern matching” - it’s autocomplete, which is somewhat different
    Having a massive corpus of text, and using maths to predict the next word, sentence, etc. is not intelligence.

    It's just a parrot with a larger vocabulary.

    Now, there are amazing ways that AI/ML will change the world. But GPT3 isn't it. It's simply a party trick.
    We’ve already had this debate on PB multiple times, and, TBH, at a much more sophisticated level than the point you are making here
    The fundamental issue - which you really haven't got over - is that you don't understand how GPT3 works.

    The more people understand it - and there's a fair amount of understanding on this board - the less impressed they are that it in any way approximates intelligence.

    There are many, many AI/ML systems that might be able to produce generalised intelligence. GPT3x is not one of them.
  • DougSeal said:

    Cyclefree said:

    File under "You could not make it up"

    EXCLUSIVE :

    Kate Josephs, the former head of the Government unit responsible for drawing covid-19 restrictions, was given a leaving do in the Cabinet Office on December 17 2020 - the day before the Number 10 Xmas Party


    https://twitter.com/HarryYorke1/status/1482014927577624583?s=20

    In The Telegraph....

    At this rate the civil service is going to come out of this with an even worse reputation than Boris.
    It raises serious questions on their culture and just how long this has been going on

    A poster earlier said it was in 2017 and I have no doubt employment law will have to address this
    Why? It’s perfectly permissible for an employer to ban the consumption of alcohol on its premises at any time. Why do we have to legislate for terrible employers with awful cultures?
    This is the civil service and change has to come to their culture
  • LeonLeon Posts: 19,049
    edited January 14
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    FFS....

    Extinction Rebellion: Jury clears protesters dragged off train roof

    Last month, the Anglican priest admitted she was "surprised" to avoid jail for blocking the M25. She was one of seven members of Insulate Britain who were handed suspended sentences for breaching an injunction and being in contempt of court.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-59996870

    So we can't even claim well it was just one of those things she got a bit carried away. She already guilty of blocking motorways and has a suspended sentence against her. Clear pattern of behaviour.

    Perhaps jury trial, like democracy, has had its day

    I’m semi-serious. That’s another implication from Cummings’ blog. Democracy may be dying. If it is proved that other systems are better at delivering prosperity, peace and happiness is democracy intrinsically worry pursuing? Hence his (and my) fascination with Singapore

    And yes I get the irony that I voted Leavd ‘because democracy’ but the world is full of complex ironies

    FWIW I think democracy definitely IS finished, in the long term, thanks to AI. GPT37 will make decisions which are so much smarter and more strategic and less emotional than any politician - or Eurocrat, or CCP apparatchik - we will hand over all our governance to the machines
    GPT doesn't make decisions: it pattern matches.

    See for yourself. Go to http://claro-gpt2.uksouth.cloudapp.azure.com/ (which I admit is GPT2 based, but the principle is the same.).

    Now take your sentence - "FWIW I think democracy definitely IS finished, in the long term, thanks to AI. GPT37 will make decisions"

    And let's see how it does at producing something sensible:

    "FWIW I think democracy definitely IS finished, in the long term, thanks to AI. GPT37 will make decisions on the basis of the best interests of the people . I think it 's 's a a time good good good good good to to to to to for for have"

    Kinda good to the end of the sentence... And then utter gibberish.

    All these GPT "AIs" are just pattern matchers: they don't have any ability to reason.
    The difference between GPT2 and GPT3 is dumbfounding. The latter is so much “smarter”. After five or ten more iterations what will they be capable of achieving? The argument as to whether they are “intelligent” will be reduced to theology, they will certainly appear EXTREMELY intelligent, more so than us

    And it’s not “pattern matching” - it’s autocomplete, which is somewhat different
    Having a massive corpus of text, and using maths to predict the next word, sentence, etc. is not intelligence.

    It's just a parrot with a larger vocabulary.

    Now, there are amazing ways that AI/ML will change the world. But GPT3 isn't it. It's simply a party trick.
    We’ve already had this debate on PB multiple times, and, TBH, at a much more sophisticated level than the point you are making here
    The fundamental issue - which you really haven't got over - is that you don't understand how GPT3 works.

    The more people understand it - and there's a fair amount of understanding on this board - the less impressed they are that it in any way approximates intelligence.

    There are many, many AI/ML systems that might be able to produce generalised intelligence. GPT3x is not one of them.
    I understand it. It is autocomplete
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 21,053
    Excl: Johnson draws up plan for other people to quit over partygate so he can keep his job.

    Number 10 declined to comment on the plan.

    But a spox said they "absolutely do not recognise" its informal name (acc.sources): Operation Save Big Dog.


    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-downing-street-partygate-b1993433.html
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 2,460
    Leon said:

    Russia invades Ukraine
    Royal Family on trial for rape
    UK Government collapses due to ceaseless illegal plague time bacchanals
    Alien rockets seen over Tooting


    And that’s just TODAY and it’s still not 6pm

    "UK Government collapses due to ceaseless illegal plague time bacchanals"

    I love that description. Chapeau, sir.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 5,898
    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    It really doesn’t look like a military jet in the video. It looks like exactly like a shiny silver missile or space rocket. Over Tooting

    It looks like a firework, if we can get past your friend's estimate that it was ten times bigger than a plane.
    It’s definitely not a firework. It’s a rocket (or a jet) of some kind. With a vapour trail.

    I would post the video but I’ve told her I’ll try and sell it to the daily mail for £50 first. If I fail I will post it here for the group opinion. A genuine mystery (tho I don’t think it is aliens)
    I think the chemtrails have softened your brain
    Update on Tooting-gate.

    She says the object was to the southwest of Tooting. In the video it looks big and stable (so not a firework) - definitely some kind of aircraft with a vapour trail?

    So then the best bet is a military jet making a very speedy and vertical ascent somewhere in far SW London or Surrey, and the unusual low sunlight makes the jet look like a missile

    Any RAF bods here? Do we have many active military airfields in Surrey?
    Tooting-gate??????

    Are you sure Boris isn't putting a dead cat on the table?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 6,145
    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    It really doesn’t look like a military jet in the video. It looks like exactly like a shiny silver missile or space rocket. Over Tooting

    It looks like a firework, if we can get past your friend's estimate that it was ten times bigger than a plane.
    It’s definitely not a firework. It’s a rocket (or a jet) of some kind. With a vapour trail.

    I would post the video but I’ve told her I’ll try and sell it to the daily mail for £50 first. If I fail I will post it here for the group opinion. A genuine mystery (tho I don’t think it is aliens)
    I think the chemtrails have softened your brain
    Update on Tooting-gate.

    She says the object was to the southwest of Tooting. In the video it looks big and stable (so not a firework) - definitely some kind of aircraft with a vapour trail?

    So then the best bet is a military jet making a very speedy and vertical ascent somewhere in far SW London or Surrey, and the unusual low sunlight makes the jet look like a missile

    Any RAF bods here? Do we have many active military airfields in Surrey?
    It's not Woking is it?
    I read a book set there once.
    When I was young I lived in Byfleet. It is weird reading a book about Martians blowing up your local pub.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 7,453
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    It really doesn’t look like a military jet in the video. It looks like exactly like a shiny silver missile or space rocket. Over Tooting

    It looks like a firework, if we can get past your friend's estimate that it was ten times bigger than a plane.
    It’s definitely not a firework. It’s a rocket (or a jet) of some kind. With a vapour trail.

    I would post the video but I’ve told her I’ll try and sell it to the daily mail for £50 first. If I fail I will post it here for the group opinion. A genuine mystery (tho I don’t think it is aliens)
    It could be a modestly-sized "toy" rocket, this one is rated to reach 1100 feet, for instance.

    No idea how much trouble you would get into for launching one of these over Tooting.
This discussion has been closed.