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Another reason to lay Andy Burnham – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited January 23 in General
Another reason to lay Andy Burnham – politicalbetting.com

…and here are the British accents people like!Received Pronunciation: +31 net attractiveWelsh: +20Yorkshire: +15West Country: +13Geordie: +10 (And in terms of Irish accents: Northern Irish is +5 and Southern Irish is +42)https://t.co/y2RHxxay32 pic.twitter.com/gtmlworaQL

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Comments

  • TazTaz Posts: 4,787
    First
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 70,763
    If you think England are shit at cricket...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvnYwZDcKp4
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 39,709
    Third rate, like our utterly discredited PM
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 19,611
    Only trouble with this is Burnham doesn't have a Manc accent. At all. Nor a Scouse one.
    He's standard S Lancashire woollyback.
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 236
    It would be interesting to compare the rankings in this survey against an equivalent one which instead of asking about each accent by name played audio clips without naming them. When you ask by name you're asking respondents about their memory of each accent, which will inevitably get tangled up with more feelings about the named location (either positively or negatively). For aspiring politicians it is the raw effect of the accent as it hits the ear that matters more, I think.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 70,763
    At least 164 people have died in Kazakhstan during violent anti-government protests, according to media reports citing health officials.

    Those Russian peacekeepers aren't doing a very good job of keeping the peace.
  • This thread has to be a bad joke right? A QTWAIN without the question.

    The Welsh Windbag sure swept all before him didn't he?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 19,611
    pm215 said:

    It would be interesting to compare the rankings in this survey against an equivalent one which instead of asking about each accent by name played audio clips without naming them. When you ask by name you're asking respondents about their memory of each accent, which will inevitably get tangled up with more feelings about the named location (either positively or negatively). For aspiring politicians it is the raw effect of the accent as it hits the ear that matters more, I think.

    Yeah. Notice Lancashire wasn't on there. How many folk from outside the area can pick Lancashire from Yorkshire?
    Piece of piss if you grew up there.
    The Missus knows a Geordie from a Mackem from a Sanddancer from a Northumbrian instantly.
    After 15 years it still sounds the same to me.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 15,959
    RP streets ahead

    The nation is in thrall to the poshest. This I am afraid is a serious obstacle for the fair Angela

    Why no Scots, except the obligatory weegie hate? Some Scots accents are lovely, and I thought they were generally rated most trustworthy, hence the banks having call centres there
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 22,638
    In this regard, I don’t think Burnham has anything to worry about. I think he has a pleasant voice without an especially strong accent.

    I feel for Brummies. I actually like the accent and in general I think they’re quite down to earth.

    I don’t dislike the Geordie or Welsh accents, but I do find it a bit annoying that they are seen as more acceptable to broadcasters.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 39,709
    On topic, I’ve been waiting for Leanne Wood’s breakthrough into audio books for such a long time.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 33,017
    edited January 9
    Glasgow hurtling downwards, wasn't a Scottish accent thought most popular or at least most trusted a few years back? Not sure if there's that much discrimination between a Glasgow and a generic Scottish accent, but maybe so.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 28,261
    Fascinating header. No way is Drakeford a future Nat Lab leader but I do agree about his voice. It's a great tool and boy does he know how to use it. I could listen to him all day.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 33,017
    IshmaelZ said:

    RP streets ahead

    The nation is in thrall to the poshest. This I am afraid is a serious obstacle for the fair Angela

    Why no Scots, except the obligatory weegie hate? Some Scots accents are lovely, and I thought they were generally rated most trustworthy, hence the banks having call centres there

    Snap.

    The idea of a Scottish leader of any of the main 'British' parties does seem fanciful nowadays.

    Gove.

    Chortle.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 16,561
    Briget Phillipson. Right sort of accent.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 9,179
    RP is the best. If Joanna Lumley told me I had ball cancer I wouldn't be bothered.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 7,489
    There's no such thing as a Southern Irish accent. I didn't have to spend much time visiting the in-laws in West Cork (and watching the Young Offenders) to be able to identify the difference between the West Cork accent and the Cork City accent, when trying to identify the accent of the Munster supporters in Edinburgh for a rugby match. Dublin probably has as many accents as postal districts.

    A former Government Scientific Adviser did say that someone at the BBC had told him that they'd done some research on accents, and people found a West Country accent most calming and reassuring. So he suggested that we should really worry if an emergency announcement was made by someone with a West Country accent... Thankfully that expedient was never called for during the Covid Emergency.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 22,638
    edited January 9
    I’ll tell you an accent that I find grating: Stokie.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potteries_dialect
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 39,709
    Dura_Ace said:

    RP is the best. If Joanna Lumley told me I had ball cancer I wouldn't be bothered.

    If it was Leanne Wood, you’d be happy about it. Or at least, willing to lie back and let circumstances wash over you…
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,304
    One of the weakest PB headers in a long time. Total pish.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 39,709

    One of the weakest PB headers in a long time. Total pish.

    Quiet news Sunday. Our PM is spending the day in his fridge.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 70,763
    tlg86 said:

    I’ll tell you an accent that I find grating: Stokie.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potteries_dialect

    Oi.....
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 5,640
    Dura_Ace said:

    RP is the best. If Joanna Lumley told me I had ball cancer I wouldn't be bothered.

    My 9 year old daughter only knows her from the (surprisingly raunchy) Conversations from a Long Marriage on Radio 4.

    Utterly smitten.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 7,489

    One of the weakest PB headers in a long time. Total pish.

    It uses a daft tweet about a dafter survey to make at least one interesting point - the one of the biggest problems with Corbynism was Corbyn.

    Also, there are lots of stories about past leaders that show that accents do matter, or at least are thought to matter. Didn't Thatcher have voice-coaching? Ed Miliband supposedly had nose surgery to tone down the whine of his voice. Appearances, and early impressions created by accents, do matter.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,304
    IanB2 said:

    One of the weakest PB headers in a long time. Total pish.

    Quiet news Sunday. Our PM is spending the day in his fridge.
    I thought the Gordon Brown story was worth a header. But Jock affairs are not PB’s strongest card. Usually some guff about rugby results predicting electoral behaviour. Or something.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 1,451
    What's the point in going to Cambridge if you emerge with a Scouse accent? Might as well go to Edge Hill.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 101,124

    This thread has to be a bad joke right? A QTWAIN without the question.

    The Welsh Windbag sure swept all before him didn't he?

    Kinnock was unfortunate to be up against the greatest PM of my life and then the best campaigning PM of my lifetime.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 33,017
    edited January 9

    One of the weakest PB headers in a long time. Total pish.

    It uses a daft tweet about a dafter survey to make at least one interesting point - the one of the biggest problems with Corbynism was Corbyn.

    Also, there are lots of stories about past leaders that show that accents do matter, or at least are thought to matter. Didn't Thatcher have voice-coaching? Ed Miliband supposedly had nose surgery to tone down the whine of his voice. Appearances, and early impressions created by accents, do matter.
    Weren't the cases of Thatch and Mili to do with the tone rather than accent? I do think that voice is an an underestimated part of a politicians armoury; Starmer has got where he is in spite of his (and by hanging on long enough for BJ's ghastliness to seep into the public consciousness).
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 101,124

    IanB2 said:

    One of the weakest PB headers in a long time. Total pish.

    Quiet news Sunday. Our PM is spending the day in his fridge.
    I thought the Gordon Brown story was worth a header. But Jock affairs are not PB’s strongest card. Usually some guff about rugby results predicting electoral behaviour. Or something.
    PB thread headers have been very accurate and profitable about Scotland.

    Inter alia myself and others have accurately predicted

    1) The SNP majority in 2011

    2) No would win in 2014.

    3) The SNP tsunami of 2015

    4) The SNP would lose their majority in 2016

    5) The SCons would win more than 6 seats at GE2017 at 20/1

    6) Alba wouldn't win a seat in 2021

    7) The SNP wouldn't win a majority in 2021
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 5,640

    This thread has to be a bad joke right? A QTWAIN without the question.

    The Welsh Windbag sure swept all before him didn't he?

    Kinnock was unfortunate to be up against the greatest PM of my life and then the best campaigning PM of my lifetime.
    Any more salt for the Prime Minister's wound?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 101,124
    edited January 9

    This thread has to be a bad joke right? A QTWAIN without the question.

    The Welsh Windbag sure swept all before him didn't he?

    Kinnock was unfortunate to be up against the greatest PM of my life and then the best campaigning PM of my lifetime.
    Any more salt for the Prime Minister's wound?
    I have a tonne of salt ready for the PM in the next few weeks.

    Edit - Sort of on topic, I compare him to David Lloyd George at one point.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 28,261
    Dura_Ace said:

    RP is the best. If Joanna Lumley told me I had ball cancer I wouldn't be bothered.

    Jarvis Cocker for me. No surprise he's become a radio talk sensation. Massively pleasing voice and a way of speaking which pulls you right in and keeps you there, seemingly with no effort at all.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 70,763
    Devi Sridhar, an American scientist who heads the global health program at the University of Edinburgh, said, “The scientific community has broad consensus now that we have to use the tools we have to stay open and avoid the lockdowns of 2020 and 2021. But it’s not easy at all, as we are seeing.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/08/world/europe/biden-boris-johnson-coronavirus-omicron.html

    Mrs Pagel still not got the memo...

    "A virus isn't endemic just cos a govt minister says it is and just cos people want it to be. The current pattern of waning vax, new immune evasive variants, and minimal public health response seem set to doom us to massive surges once or twice a year."
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 31,424

    One of the weakest PB headers in a long time. Total pish.

    It uses a daft tweet about a dafter survey to make at least one interesting point - the one of the biggest problems with Corbynism was Corbyn.

    Also, there are lots of stories about past leaders that show that accents do matter, or at least are thought to matter. Didn't Thatcher have voice-coaching? Ed Miliband supposedly had nose surgery to tone down the whine of his voice. Appearances, and early impressions created by accents, do matter.
    One thing about accents is that people hold onto them consciously or subconsciously if they are proud of them, and lose them fairly quickly if not.

    I came back from Atlanta aged 15, but lost my American accent within 6 months, apart from the odd word. I picked up a bit of a Kiwi twang working there, but only odd word persists.

    I meet lots of Scots, Irish, Geordies and Scousers here who have kept their accents for decades, but Brum accents fade very quickly.

    I quite like Brummies though, it is the part of England most like America in its attitude to wealth, its creation and its relation to social class.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,382

    At least 164 people have died in Kazakhstan during violent anti-government protests, according to media reports citing health officials.

    Those Russian peacekeepers aren't doing a very good job of keeping the peace.

    I suspect its many more than that, but we will probably never know. very sad
  • TimSTimS Posts: 1,453
    It’s actually interesting to reflect on this: I expect few if any people could imagine a PM with a strong West Country accent. Like a proper Kaleb off Clarkson’s farm burr. Would go down a storm with the Americans though.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 70,763
    Surprised nobody has mentioned the Spurs are losing to the mighty Morecambe in the FA Cup...
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,382

    Devi Sridhar, an American scientist who heads the global health program at the University of Edinburgh, said, “The scientific community has broad consensus now that we have to use the tools we have to stay open and avoid the lockdowns of 2020 and 2021. But it’s not easy at all, as we are seeing.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/08/world/europe/biden-boris-johnson-coronavirus-omicron.html

    Mrs Pagel still not got the memo...

    "A virus isn't endemic just cos a govt minister says it is and just cos people want it to be. The current pattern of waning vax, new immune evasive variants, and minimal public health response seem set to doom us to massive surges once or twice a year."

    does she still what us to go for Zero Covid?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 101,124

    Glasgow hurtling downwards, wasn't a Scottish accent thought most popular or at least most trusted a few years back? Not sure if there's that much discrimination between a Glasgow and a generic Scottish accent, but maybe so.

    If I remember correctly I think it was the Edinburgh and Willie Whitelaw style accents which were a hit.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,304

    IanB2 said:

    One of the weakest PB headers in a long time. Total pish.

    Quiet news Sunday. Our PM is spending the day in his fridge.
    I thought the Gordon Brown story was worth a header. But Jock affairs are not PB’s strongest card. Usually some guff about rugby results predicting electoral behaviour. Or something.
    PB thread headers have been very accurate and profitable about Scotland.

    Inter alia myself and others have accurately predicted

    1) The SNP majority in 2011

    2) No would win in 2014.

    3) The SNP tsunami of 2015

    4) The SNP would lose their majority in 2016

    5) The SCons would win more than 6 seats at GE2017 at 20/1

    6) Alba wouldn't win a seat in 2021

    7) The SNP wouldn't win a majority in 2021
    PB been going for 18 years, so one accurate Scotland-themed header every second year. Bloody impressive.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 70,763
    edited January 9
    BigRich said:

    Devi Sridhar, an American scientist who heads the global health program at the University of Edinburgh, said, “The scientific community has broad consensus now that we have to use the tools we have to stay open and avoid the lockdowns of 2020 and 2021. But it’s not easy at all, as we are seeing.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/08/world/europe/biden-boris-johnson-coronavirus-omicron.html

    Mrs Pagel still not got the memo...

    "A virus isn't endemic just cos a govt minister says it is and just cos people want it to be. The current pattern of waning vax, new immune evasive variants, and minimal public health response seem set to doom us to massive surges once or twice a year."

    does she still what us to go for Zero Covid?
    Her stance now seems to have shifted to we have to continue to have significant changes to normal life in order to mitigate the effects of COVID. Going back to pre-pandemic life is not an option for the foreseeable future.

    iSAGE want us to use a LFT every time we leave the house.....will somebody think of the turtles, all that plastic.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 15,548
    Foxy said:

    One of the weakest PB headers in a long time. Total pish.

    It uses a daft tweet about a dafter survey to make at least one interesting point - the one of the biggest problems with Corbynism was Corbyn.

    Also, there are lots of stories about past leaders that show that accents do matter, or at least are thought to matter. Didn't Thatcher have voice-coaching? Ed Miliband supposedly had nose surgery to tone down the whine of his voice. Appearances, and early impressions created by accents, do matter.
    One thing about accents is that people hold onto them consciously or subconsciously if they are proud of them, and lose them fairly quickly if not.

    I came back from Atlanta aged 15, but lost my American accent within 6 months, apart from the odd word. I picked up a bit of a Kiwi twang working there, but only odd word persists.

    I meet lots of Scots, Irish, Geordies and Scousers here who have kept their accents for decades, but Brum accents fade very quickly.

    I quite like Brummies though, it is the part of England most like America in its attitude to wealth, its creation and its relation to social class.
    I couldn't disagree more. I have not lived in the Birmingham area since 1976 when I was 14 and I still sound like a low rent Jasper Carrott. The Birmingham accent is an horrific nasal abomination.

    I always wanted to sound like James Mason or Patrick McNee. My MP in North Herefordshire (Leominster) Peter Temple-Morris sounded like Patrick McNee, he was worth a vote just for that.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 101,124

    IanB2 said:

    One of the weakest PB headers in a long time. Total pish.

    Quiet news Sunday. Our PM is spending the day in his fridge.
    I thought the Gordon Brown story was worth a header. But Jock affairs are not PB’s strongest card. Usually some guff about rugby results predicting electoral behaviour. Or something.
    PB thread headers have been very accurate and profitable about Scotland.

    Inter alia myself and others have accurately predicted

    1) The SNP majority in 2011

    2) No would win in 2014.

    3) The SNP tsunami of 2015

    4) The SNP would lose their majority in 2016

    5) The SCons would win more than 6 seats at GE2017 at 20/1

    6) Alba wouldn't win a seat in 2021

    7) The SNP wouldn't win a majority in 2021
    PB been going for 18 years, so one accurate Scotland-themed header every second year. Bloody impressive.
    Which part of inter alia don't you understand, I could list more.

    You said Jock affairs are not PB's strongest card, once again I proved you were talking shite.

    I suppose I could remind everyone of your arrogant predictions days and weeks prior to to 18th September 2014?
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,577
    Since when was Cornwall not in the Westcountry?
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 6,412
    edited January 9
    TimS said:

    It’s actually interesting to reflect on this: I expect few if any people could imagine a PM with a strong West Country accent. Like a proper Kaleb off Clarkson’s farm burr. Would go down a storm with the Americans though.

    The Bath/Gloucester/Bristol -type accent is very appealing. NIce rounded undertones to the vowels, although not a fuller west country accent. A nice underlying burr.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 49,650

    BigRich said:

    Devi Sridhar, an American scientist who heads the global health program at the University of Edinburgh, said, “The scientific community has broad consensus now that we have to use the tools we have to stay open and avoid the lockdowns of 2020 and 2021. But it’s not easy at all, as we are seeing.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/08/world/europe/biden-boris-johnson-coronavirus-omicron.html

    Mrs Pagel still not got the memo...

    "A virus isn't endemic just cos a govt minister says it is and just cos people want it to be. The current pattern of waning vax, new immune evasive variants, and minimal public health response seem set to doom us to massive surges once or twice a year."

    does she still what us to go for Zero Covid?
    Her stance now seems to have shifted to we have to continue to have significant changes to normal life in order to mitigate the effects of COVID. Going back to pre-pandemic life is not an option for the foreseeable future.

    iSAGE want us to use a LFT every time we leave the house.....will somebody think of the turtles, all that plastic.
    Should we just learn to live with Covid?

    Professor Christina Pagel says that "we're not learning, we're just pretending it's not happening".

    Times Radio.



    This crisis would never end if we listened to iSAGE.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,577

    This thread has to be a bad joke right? A QTWAIN without the question.

    The Welsh Windbag sure swept all before him didn't he?

    Kinnock was unfortunate to be up against the greatest PM of my life and then the best campaigning PM of my lifetime.
    A Welsh accent didn't disadvantage Kinnock. Being a balding ginger with a weak chin probably did.
  • Foxy said:

    One of the weakest PB headers in a long time. Total pish.

    It uses a daft tweet about a dafter survey to make at least one interesting point - the one of the biggest problems with Corbynism was Corbyn.

    Also, there are lots of stories about past leaders that show that accents do matter, or at least are thought to matter. Didn't Thatcher have voice-coaching? Ed Miliband supposedly had nose surgery to tone down the whine of his voice. Appearances, and early impressions created by accents, do matter.
    One thing about accents is that people hold onto them consciously or subconsciously if they are proud of them, and lose them fairly quickly if not.

    I came back from Atlanta aged 15, but lost my American accent within 6 months, apart from the odd word. I picked up a bit of a Kiwi twang working there, but only odd word persists.

    I meet lots of Scots, Irish, Geordies and Scousers here who have kept their accents for decades, but Brum accents fade very quickly.

    I quite like Brummies though, it is the part of England most like America in its attitude to wealth, its creation and its relation to social class.
    I couldn't disagree more. I have not lived in the Birmingham area since 1976 when I was 14 and I still sound like a low rent Jasper Carrott. The Birmingham accent is an horrific nasal abomination.

    I always wanted to sound like James Mason or Patrick McNee. My MP in North Herefordshire (Leominster) Peter Temple-Morris sounded like Patrick McNee, he was worth a vote just for that.
    There's always the drastic and now dated elocution lessons option, although you might come out sounding like the blessed Margaret.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 70,763
    edited January 9

    BigRich said:

    Devi Sridhar, an American scientist who heads the global health program at the University of Edinburgh, said, “The scientific community has broad consensus now that we have to use the tools we have to stay open and avoid the lockdowns of 2020 and 2021. But it’s not easy at all, as we are seeing.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/08/world/europe/biden-boris-johnson-coronavirus-omicron.html

    Mrs Pagel still not got the memo...

    "A virus isn't endemic just cos a govt minister says it is and just cos people want it to be. The current pattern of waning vax, new immune evasive variants, and minimal public health response seem set to doom us to massive surges once or twice a year."

    does she still what us to go for Zero Covid?
    Her stance now seems to have shifted to we have to continue to have significant changes to normal life in order to mitigate the effects of COVID. Going back to pre-pandemic life is not an option for the foreseeable future.

    iSAGE want us to use a LFT every time we leave the house.....will somebody think of the turtles, all that plastic.
    Should we just learn to live with Covid?

    Professor Christina Pagel says that "we're not learning, we're just pretending it's not happening".

    Times Radio.



    This crisis would never end if we listened to iSAGE.
    Oi, get back in your house....unless you have taken 3 LFT today and are triple masked, and don't go think about meeting any strangers.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 101,124
    I've just seen that scandalous VAR decision at the West Ham v Leeds match.

    But since it was against Dirty Leeds, hahahahhahaha.

    Seriously VAR is a great thing just incompetently run by Mike Riley and his idiots.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 70,763

    Foxy said:

    One of the weakest PB headers in a long time. Total pish.

    It uses a daft tweet about a dafter survey to make at least one interesting point - the one of the biggest problems with Corbynism was Corbyn.

    Also, there are lots of stories about past leaders that show that accents do matter, or at least are thought to matter. Didn't Thatcher have voice-coaching? Ed Miliband supposedly had nose surgery to tone down the whine of his voice. Appearances, and early impressions created by accents, do matter.
    One thing about accents is that people hold onto them consciously or subconsciously if they are proud of them, and lose them fairly quickly if not.

    I came back from Atlanta aged 15, but lost my American accent within 6 months, apart from the odd word. I picked up a bit of a Kiwi twang working there, but only odd word persists.

    I meet lots of Scots, Irish, Geordies and Scousers here who have kept their accents for decades, but Brum accents fade very quickly.

    I quite like Brummies though, it is the part of England most like America in its attitude to wealth, its creation and its relation to social class.
    I couldn't disagree more. I have not lived in the Birmingham area since 1976 when I was 14 and I still sound like a low rent Jasper Carrott. The Birmingham accent is an horrific nasal abomination.

    I always wanted to sound like James Mason or Patrick McNee. My MP in North Herefordshire (Leominster) Peter Temple-Morris sounded like Patrick McNee, he was worth a vote just for that.
    There's always the drastic and now dated elocution lessons option, although you might come out sounding like the blessed Margaret.
    Are elocution lessons still a thing? I seemed to remember growing up, lots of middle class parents seemed to be quite keen on sending their kids to them.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 16,149

    IanB2 said:

    One of the weakest PB headers in a long time. Total pish.

    Quiet news Sunday. Our PM is spending the day in his fridge.
    I thought the Gordon Brown story was worth a header. But Jock affairs are not PB’s strongest card. Usually some guff about rugby results predicting electoral behaviour. Or something.
    Why don't you write one then?
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 2,460
    Slow day for the YouGov bods then I assume
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 19,611
    That's me boostered.
    Desperately quiet at Centre for Life. Only one other injectee in 10 minutes I've been here.
    Everybody's got the jab or got COVID. Too early for the 4 weeks since infection rush.
    That was what the nurse reckoned.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 70,763

    I've just seen that scandalous VAR decision at the West Ham v Leeds match.

    But since it was against Dirty Leeds, hahahahhahaha.

    Seriously VAR is a great thing just incompetently run by Mike Riley and his idiots.

    Its even more a mess with the FA Cup, where if you play at a EPL ground they use it, otherwise (for obvious technical reasons) they don't. No consistency.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 101,124
    TimS said:

    It’s actually interesting to reflect on this: I expect few if any people could imagine a PM with a strong West Country accent. Like a proper Kaleb off Clarkson’s farm burr. Would go down a storm with the Americans though.

    I would quite happily campaign and vote for Kaleb for Prime Minister.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,577
    IshmaelZ said:

    RP streets ahead

    The nation is in thrall to the poshest. This I am afraid is a serious obstacle for the fair Angela

    Why no Scots, except the obligatory weegie hate? Some Scots accents are lovely, and I thought they were generally rated most trustworthy, hence the banks having call centres there

    RP is not limited to the posh. That is heigtened RP, its own accent. Most middle income people across the South East (London aside) speak a form of RP.

    I agree with you a Scots accent rates extremely well. It was an advantage for Gordon Brown I think. The best is probably an Edinburgh accent.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 28,261

    One of the weakest PB headers in a long time. Total pish.

    It uses a daft tweet about a dafter survey to make at least one interesting point - the one of the biggest problems with Corbynism was Corbyn.

    Also, there are lots of stories about past leaders that show that accents do matter, or at least are thought to matter. Didn't Thatcher have voice-coaching? Ed Miliband supposedly had nose surgery to tone down the whine of his voice. Appearances, and early impressions created by accents, do matter.
    Weren't the cases of Thatch and Mili to do with the tone rather than accent? I do think that voice is an an underestimated part of a politicians armoury; Starmer has got where he is in spite of his (and by hanging on long enough for BJ's ghastliness to seep into the public consciousness).
    No, Starmer isn't blessed with a great voice for a pol. It's clear & authoritative but lacks something I can't quite put my finger on. I don't want to say 'personality' because I don't think it's that. It's more about the literal sound of it. Still, I vastly prefer it to Johnson's. He can be compelling like a car crash is but it's not to do with his burbling tones.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 97,784
    Drakeford won one election in Wales, a country that has not voted anything other than Labour in a national election for the last 100 years. Does not mean he would have any appeal whatsover in England.

    In fact the Welsh Conservatives also had their best ever performance at a Senedd election last year against Drakeford Labour. Burnham on the other hand won even Tory Trafford in the last Greater Manchester Mayoral election.

    While his northern accent may not be universally popular it is more popular in the redwall, the key swing region for Labour to prevent another Tory majority
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 2,370

    Foxy said:

    One of the weakest PB headers in a long time. Total pish.

    It uses a daft tweet about a dafter survey to make at least one interesting point - the one of the biggest problems with Corbynism was Corbyn.

    Also, there are lots of stories about past leaders that show that accents do matter, or at least are thought to matter. Didn't Thatcher have voice-coaching? Ed Miliband supposedly had nose surgery to tone down the whine of his voice. Appearances, and early impressions created by accents, do matter.
    One thing about accents is that people hold onto them consciously or subconsciously if they are proud of them, and lose them fairly quickly if not.

    I came back from Atlanta aged 15, but lost my American accent within 6 months, apart from the odd word. I picked up a bit of a Kiwi twang working there, but only odd word persists.

    I meet lots of Scots, Irish, Geordies and Scousers here who have kept their accents for decades, but Brum accents fade very quickly.

    I quite like Brummies though, it is the part of England most like America in its attitude to wealth, its creation and its relation to social class.
    I couldn't disagree more. I have not lived in the Birmingham area since 1976 when I was 14 and I still sound like a low rent Jasper Carrott. The Birmingham accent is an horrific nasal abomination.

    I always wanted to sound like James Mason or Patrick McNee. My MP in North Herefordshire (Leominster) Peter Temple-Morris sounded like Patrick McNee, he was worth a vote just for that.
    There's always the drastic and now dated elocution lessons option, although you might come out sounding like the blessed Margaret.
    The water in Majorca doesn't taste quite how it should.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 15,548

    Foxy said:

    One of the weakest PB headers in a long time. Total pish.

    It uses a daft tweet about a dafter survey to make at least one interesting point - the one of the biggest problems with Corbynism was Corbyn.

    Also, there are lots of stories about past leaders that show that accents do matter, or at least are thought to matter. Didn't Thatcher have voice-coaching? Ed Miliband supposedly had nose surgery to tone down the whine of his voice. Appearances, and early impressions created by accents, do matter.
    One thing about accents is that people hold onto them consciously or subconsciously if they are proud of them, and lose them fairly quickly if not.

    I came back from Atlanta aged 15, but lost my American accent within 6 months, apart from the odd word. I picked up a bit of a Kiwi twang working there, but only odd word persists.

    I meet lots of Scots, Irish, Geordies and Scousers here who have kept their accents for decades, but Brum accents fade very quickly.

    I quite like Brummies though, it is the part of England most like America in its attitude to wealth, its creation and its relation to social class.
    I couldn't disagree more. I have not lived in the Birmingham area since 1976 when I was 14 and I still sound like a low rent Jasper Carrott. The Birmingham accent is an horrific nasal abomination.

    I always wanted to sound like James Mason or Patrick McNee. My MP in North Herefordshire (Leominster) Peter Temple-Morris sounded like Patrick McNee, he was worth a vote just for that.
    There's always the drastic and now dated elocution lessons option, although you might come out sounding like the blessed Margaret.
    To my ear I have the transatlantic tones of Cary Grant. When I hear playback however it's unfortunately Beryl Reid.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 22,638

    I've just seen that scandalous VAR decision at the West Ham v Leeds match.

    But since it was against Dirty Leeds, hahahahhahaha.

    Seriously VAR is a great thing just incompetently run by Mike Riley and his idiots.

    Its even more a mess with the FA Cup, where if you play at a EPL ground they use it, otherwise (for obvious technical reasons) they don't. No consistency.
    What I think is wrong is that they’ve got PL refs refereeing at non-VAR venues (not sure about the opposite). VAR must have altered the mindset of officials.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 97,784
    edited January 9
    It should be pointed out too the Essex accent is generally not Home Counties received pronunciation (although I try). It is more Cockney in south Essex from East End Londoners who moved out and further north in Essex there are still traces of an East Anglian rural burr shared with Suffolk, Norfolk and rural Cambridgeshire
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 49,650
    It is essential the public inquiry looks at the use of modelling by public policy decision makers.

    Because it 'aint working at the moment.



    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    Replying to
    @brianmoore666
    and
    @DPJHodges
    But behavioural changes are *part* of any story of what will happen. One can't say "I was right but behaviour changed". One's view of & predictions about behaviour are a fundamental part of any policy-actionable model. If one got the behaviour wrong one's model was wrong.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 21,054
    Aslan said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RP streets ahead

    The nation is in thrall to the poshest. This I am afraid is a serious obstacle for the fair Angela

    Why no Scots, except the obligatory weegie hate? Some Scots accents are lovely, and I thought they were generally rated most trustworthy, hence the banks having call centres there

    RP is not limited to the posh. That is heigtened RP, its own accent. Most middle income people across the South East (London aside) speak a form of RP.

    I agree with you a Scots accent rates extremely well. It was an advantage for Gordon Brown I think. The best is probably an Edinburgh accent.
    Depends what you mean by an Edinburgh accent. It varies from Morningside, to competent professional, to Pilton/Leith (as in Trainspotting, which probably has examples of the gamut come to think of it).
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 70,763
    edited January 9

    It is essential the public inquiry looks at the use of modelling by public policy decision makers.

    Because it 'aint working at the moment.



    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    Replying to
    @brianmoore666
    and
    @DPJHodges
    But behavioural changes are *part* of any story of what will happen. One can't say "I was right but behaviour changed". One's view of & predictions about behaviour are a fundamental part of any policy-actionable model. If one got the behaviour wrong one's model was wrong.

    Its like saying I modelled the FTSE100 perfectly based purely on the finances of each company, it was other people's irrational behaviour to market conditions that meant my predictions were off.....
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,037
    HYUFD said:

    Drakeford won one election in Wales, a country that has not voted anything other than Labour in a national election for the last 100 years. Does not mean he would have any appeal whatsover in England.

    In fact the Welsh Conservatives also had their best ever performance at a Senedd election last year against Drakeford Labour. Burnham on the other hand won even Tory Trafford in the last Greater Manchester Mayoral election.

    While his northern accent may not be universally popular it is more popular in the redwall, the key swing region for Labour to prevent another Tory majority

    Although Trafford these days is not really Tory. It's a Labour council and there has been an influx of professional, middle-class types who (a) have found Chorlton and Didsbury too expensive and like the housing stock, particularly in the north of the borough (b) more importantly, it still retains the 11+, which is a big draw and which the Labour Council has smartly kept on - the 11+ used to be the defining issue in Trafford elections.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 2,460

    It is essential the public inquiry looks at the use of modelling by public policy decision makers.

    Because it 'aint working at the moment.



    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    Replying to
    @brianmoore666
    and
    @DPJHodges
    But behavioural changes are *part* of any story of what will happen. One can't say "I was right but behaviour changed". One's view of & predictions about behaviour are a fundamental part of any policy-actionable model. If one got the behaviour wrong one's model was wrong.

    I think the real issue is that people's expectation of what "models" means wildly differs from the reality of what modelling is actually about in reality.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 49,650

    It is essential the public inquiry looks at the use of modelling by public policy decision makers.

    Because it 'aint working at the moment.



    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    Replying to
    @brianmoore666
    and
    @DPJHodges
    But behavioural changes are *part* of any story of what will happen. One can't say "I was right but behaviour changed". One's view of & predictions about behaviour are a fundamental part of any policy-actionable model. If one got the behaviour wrong one's model was wrong.

    Its like saying I modelled the FTSE100 perfectly based on the finances of each company and the macro economic policy of the government, it was other people's irrational behaviour that meant my predictions were off.....
    I am increasingly of the view that the government via SAGE choose to rely on a specific set of academic modelling teams. I am very happy to be corrected, but it seems these teams had never been tested under fire or subject to any kind of external review or sanity check. Or introduced modellers from say the finance sector as you mention. They had happily been building little models for use at academic conferences quietly for years with colleagues politely perhaps suggesting a few fixes here and there and debating the merits and so on. And then suddenly bang.

    I am most definitely not saying this is the academics fault. They have been used to provide something they shouldn't have been asked to provide in isolation without any other kinds of input or sanity check.

    Who does the modelling for the MoD for war and defence related issues? Academics? Professional modellers? I have no idea, but we should be looking into it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 97,784
    edited January 9
    MrEd said:

    HYUFD said:

    Drakeford won one election in Wales, a country that has not voted anything other than Labour in a national election for the last 100 years. Does not mean he would have any appeal whatsover in England.

    In fact the Welsh Conservatives also had their best ever performance at a Senedd election last year against Drakeford Labour. Burnham on the other hand won even Tory Trafford in the last Greater Manchester Mayoral election.

    While his northern accent may not be universally popular it is more popular in the redwall, the key swing region for Labour to prevent another Tory majority

    Although Trafford these days is not really Tory. It's a Labour council and there has been an influx of professional, middle-class types who (a) have found Chorlton and Didsbury too expensive and like the housing stock, particularly in the north of the borough (b) more importantly, it still retains the 11+, which is a big draw and which the Labour Council has smartly kept on - the 11+ used to be the defining issue in Trafford elections.
    It is still the only part of Greater Manchester though which had a Tory MP from 1997 to 2019 and still has a Tory MP in Altrincham and Sale West
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 33,017
    IanB2 said:

    It is essential the public inquiry looks at the use of modelling by public policy decision makers.

    Because it 'aint working at the moment.



    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    Replying to
    @brianmoore666
    and
    @DPJHodges
    But behavioural changes are *part* of any story of what will happen. One can't say "I was right but behaviour changed". One's view of & predictions about behaviour are a fundamental part of any policy-actionable model. If one got the behaviour wrong one's model was wrong.

    I think the real issue is that people's expectation of what "models" means wildly differs from the reality of what modelling is actually about in reality.
    it's all fiddling about with small stuff and trying to get the glue and paint off your fingers?
    Or making sure you've wiped the blow off your snoot and you've puked up the last shred of the half a pot noodle you had yesterday.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 49,650
    Interestingly the mess with modelling mainly happened under Dom's watch. So what happened to the data genius? Was he asking why we were relying on such a small group of entirely academic modellers in the era of Big Data?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,304
    Aslan said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RP streets ahead

    The nation is in thrall to the poshest. This I am afraid is a serious obstacle for the fair Angela

    Why no Scots, except the obligatory weegie hate? Some Scots accents are lovely, and I thought they were generally rated most trustworthy, hence the banks having call centres there

    RP is not limited to the posh. That is heigtened RP, its own accent. Most middle income people across the South East (London aside) speak a form of RP.

    I agree with you a Scots accent rates extremely well. It was an advantage for Gordon Brown I think. The best is probably an Edinburgh accent.
    Thanks!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 49,650

    It is essential the public inquiry looks at the use of modelling by public policy decision makers.

    Because it 'aint working at the moment.



    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    Replying to
    @brianmoore666
    and
    @DPJHodges
    But behavioural changes are *part* of any story of what will happen. One can't say "I was right but behaviour changed". One's view of & predictions about behaviour are a fundamental part of any policy-actionable model. If one got the behaviour wrong one's model was wrong.

    I think the real issue is that people's expectation of what "models" means wildly differs from the reality of what modelling is actually about in reality.
    Lilico does modelling all day long. So you might be able to say that about the journos like Hodges but not Lilico.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 19,611
    MrEd said:

    HYUFD said:

    Drakeford won one election in Wales, a country that has not voted anything other than Labour in a national election for the last 100 years. Does not mean he would have any appeal whatsover in England.

    In fact the Welsh Conservatives also had their best ever performance at a Senedd election last year against Drakeford Labour. Burnham on the other hand won even Tory Trafford in the last Greater Manchester Mayoral election.

    While his northern accent may not be universally popular it is more popular in the redwall, the key swing region for Labour to prevent another Tory majority

    Although Trafford these days is not really Tory. It's a Labour council and there has been an influx of professional, middle-class types who (a) have found Chorlton and Didsbury too expensive and like the housing stock, particularly in the north of the borough (b) more importantly, it still retains the 11+, which is a big draw and which the Labour Council has smartly kept on - the 11+ used to be the defining issue in Trafford elections.
    In fact. The Tory borough in GM is now Bolton. Has the safest Tory MP in GM too. Which is quite a turn around.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 19,611
    HYUFD said:

    MrEd said:

    HYUFD said:

    Drakeford won one election in Wales, a country that has not voted anything other than Labour in a national election for the last 100 years. Does not mean he would have any appeal whatsover in England.

    In fact the Welsh Conservatives also had their best ever performance at a Senedd election last year against Drakeford Labour. Burnham on the other hand won even Tory Trafford in the last Greater Manchester Mayoral election.

    While his northern accent may not be universally popular it is more popular in the redwall, the key swing region for Labour to prevent another Tory majority

    Although Trafford these days is not really Tory. It's a Labour council and there has been an influx of professional, middle-class types who (a) have found Chorlton and Didsbury too expensive and like the housing stock, particularly in the north of the borough (b) more importantly, it still retains the 11+, which is a big draw and which the Labour Council has smartly kept on - the 11+ used to be the defining issue in Trafford elections.
    It is still the only part of Greater Manchester though which had a Tory MP from 1997 to 2019 and still has a Tory MP in Altrincham and Sale West
    Be surprised if that lasts. Trafford is changing.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 70,763
    edited January 9

    It is essential the public inquiry looks at the use of modelling by public policy decision makers.

    Because it 'aint working at the moment.



    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    Replying to
    @brianmoore666
    and
    @DPJHodges
    But behavioural changes are *part* of any story of what will happen. One can't say "I was right but behaviour changed". One's view of & predictions about behaviour are a fundamental part of any policy-actionable model. If one got the behaviour wrong one's model was wrong.

    Its like saying I modelled the FTSE100 perfectly based on the finances of each company and the macro economic policy of the government, it was other people's irrational behaviour that meant my predictions were off.....
    I am increasingly of the view that the government via SAGE choose to rely on a specific set of academic modelling teams. I am very happy to be corrected, but it seems these teams had never been tested under fire or subject to any kind of external review or sanity check. Or introduced modellers from say the finance sector as you mention. They had happily been building little models for use at academic conferences quietly for years with colleagues politely perhaps suggesting a few fixes here and there and debating the merits and so on. And then suddenly bang.

    I am most definitely not saying this is the academics fault. They have been used to provide something they shouldn't have been asked to provide in isolation without any other kinds of input or sanity check.

    Who does the modelling for the MoD for war and defence related issues? Academics? Professional modellers? I have no idea, but we should be looking into it.
    Having recently talked a couple of people who have a bit of knowledge about this. There are a number of issues.

    #1) As you say these people model this niche subject, their techniques really aren't leveraging state of the art methods. Lots of people for example in maths community are really naïve about the state of the art machine learning. ML is an incredible fast moving field with enormous amounts of research papers every year. Its a full time job just keeping up with a sub-set of this. I have spent the past 2 months just researching one tiny niche field with 100s of papers over the past few years.

    #2) Lots of people who specialise in mathematical modelling ain't doing this, they can earn a hell of a lot of money in other fields.

    #3) Ease of availability of data is a really big issue. Lots of the inputs you might wish to incorporate into your model, the data apparently isn't available or isn't consistent. The machine learning community are used to having at least some test datasets that have already been well curated, so they can always at least make a start from a position where they don't have to worry about lots of errors / inconsistencies in the data.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 97,784
    edited January 9
    Aslan said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RP streets ahead

    The nation is in thrall to the poshest. This I am afraid is a serious obstacle for the fair Angela

    Why no Scots, except the obligatory weegie hate? Some Scots accents are lovely, and I thought they were generally rated most trustworthy, hence the banks having call centres there

    RP is not limited to the posh. That is heigtened RP, its own accent. Most middle income people across the South East (London aside) speak a form of RP.

    I agree with you a Scots accent rates extremely well. It was an advantage for Gordon Brown I think. The best is probably an Edinburgh accent.
    West Londoners and many North Londoners and the posher parts of South London like Bromley also generally speak a form of RP, not just people living in the Home Counties. Cockney is mainly an East End of London and South Essex accent plus a few parts of Kent close to London
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 21,054
    edited January 9

    IanB2 said:

    It is essential the public inquiry looks at the use of modelling by public policy decision makers.

    Because it 'aint working at the moment.



    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    Replying to
    @brianmoore666
    and
    @DPJHodges
    But behavioural changes are *part* of any story of what will happen. One can't say "I was right but behaviour changed". One's view of & predictions about behaviour are a fundamental part of any policy-actionable model. If one got the behaviour wrong one's model was wrong.

    I think the real issue is that people's expectation of what "models" means wildly differs from the reality of what modelling is actually about in reality.
    it's all fiddling about with small stuff and trying to get the glue and paint off your fingers?
    Or making sure you've wiped the blow off your snoot and you've puked up the last shred of the half a pot noodle you had yesterday.
    The pot noodle pot from the bin at the junction between Gallowgate and Sautmarket, surely.

    In the true Glaswegian, 'modeller' = patron of 'model lodging house' = slightly upmarket dosshouse, or it was slightly upmarket when built long ago.

    https://www.theglasgowstory.com/image/?inum=TGSE00760

    Edit: aforesaid jakey patron usually wearing about 6 coats and pulling an old pram with his possessions, plus a few dozen flies attracted by his personal perfume.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 42,333
    IshmaelZ said:

    RP streets ahead

    The nation is in thrall to the poshest. This I am afraid is a serious obstacle for the fair Angela

    Why no Scots, except the obligatory weegie hate? Some Scots accents are lovely, and I thought they were generally rated most trustworthy, hence the banks having call centres there

    Yes, the Highland accent in particular is lovely, it has the same singing quality to it that the Welsh do and, well, they are not Welsh.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 7,707

    Foxy said:

    One of the weakest PB headers in a long time. Total pish.

    It uses a daft tweet about a dafter survey to make at least one interesting point - the one of the biggest problems with Corbynism was Corbyn.

    Also, there are lots of stories about past leaders that show that accents do matter, or at least are thought to matter. Didn't Thatcher have voice-coaching? Ed Miliband supposedly had nose surgery to tone down the whine of his voice. Appearances, and early impressions created by accents, do matter.
    One thing about accents is that people hold onto them consciously or subconsciously if they are proud of them, and lose them fairly quickly if not.

    I came back from Atlanta aged 15, but lost my American accent within 6 months, apart from the odd word. I picked up a bit of a Kiwi twang working there, but only odd word persists.

    I meet lots of Scots, Irish, Geordies and Scousers here who have kept their accents for decades, but Brum accents fade very quickly.

    I quite like Brummies though, it is the part of England most like America in its attitude to wealth, its creation and its relation to social class.
    I couldn't disagree more. I have not lived in the Birmingham area since 1976 when I was 14 and I still sound like a low rent Jasper Carrott. The Birmingham accent is an horrific nasal abomination.

    I always wanted to sound like James Mason or Patrick McNee. My MP in North Herefordshire (Leominster) Peter Temple-Morris sounded like Patrick McNee, he was worth a vote just for that.
    There's always the drastic and now dated elocution lessons option, although you might come out sounding like the blessed Margaret.
    Thatcher obviously had a bit of an odd way of speaking, but it really suited her political style. For a politician she was really quite clear and direct. There's quite a contrast with the current incumbant - maybe he should take elocution lessons.

    Burnham's accent is fine. The reasons he's unlikely to become leader are the complicated path, the strong impression that he's a lightweight, and the unlikely concept of the rest of Labour just waving him through.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,304
    edited January 9
    First Spanish poll of 2022 and those nasty Unionists Ciudadanos pretty much obliterated.

    PS 25%
    PP 24%
    Vox 20%
    Pobemos 12%
    every other party on 3.5% or less

    (ElectoPanel/Electomanía; sample size = 1,823; 31 Dec - 6 Jan)
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 42,333
    Carnyx said:

    Aslan said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RP streets ahead

    The nation is in thrall to the poshest. This I am afraid is a serious obstacle for the fair Angela

    Why no Scots, except the obligatory weegie hate? Some Scots accents are lovely, and I thought they were generally rated most trustworthy, hence the banks having call centres there

    RP is not limited to the posh. That is heigtened RP, its own accent. Most middle income people across the South East (London aside) speak a form of RP.

    I agree with you a Scots accent rates extremely well. It was an advantage for Gordon Brown I think. The best is probably an Edinburgh accent.
    Depends what you mean by an Edinburgh accent. It varies from Morningside, to competent professional, to Pilton/Leith (as in Trainspotting, which probably has examples of the gamut come to think of it).
    The son of one of my friends saw Trainspotting 2 in the cinema in Lancashire with some English friends. Like almost every Scot who watched it he was pole axed with laughter but his English friends were sitting there bemused. I think accents had something to do with it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 97,784
    edited January 9
    dixiedean said:

    MrEd said:

    HYUFD said:

    Drakeford won one election in Wales, a country that has not voted anything other than Labour in a national election for the last 100 years. Does not mean he would have any appeal whatsover in England.

    In fact the Welsh Conservatives also had their best ever performance at a Senedd election last year against Drakeford Labour. Burnham on the other hand won even Tory Trafford in the last Greater Manchester Mayoral election.

    While his northern accent may not be universally popular it is more popular in the redwall, the key swing region for Labour to prevent another Tory majority

    Although Trafford these days is not really Tory. It's a Labour council and there has been an influx of professional, middle-class types who (a) have found Chorlton and Didsbury too expensive and like the housing stock, particularly in the north of the borough (b) more importantly, it still retains the 11+, which is a big draw and which the Labour Council has smartly kept on - the 11+ used to be the defining issue in Trafford elections.
    In fact. The Tory borough in GM is now Bolton. Has the safest Tory MP in GM too. Which is quite a turn around.
    Bolton West was Labour from 1997-2010 however and Starmer would likely need to win it for Labour to get most seats and certainly for a majority. Bolton NE has a Tory majority of just 378 compared to a Tory majority of 6,139 in Altrincham and Sale West
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 97,784

    First Spanish poll of 2022 and those nasty Unionists Ciudadanos pretty much obliterated.

    PS 25%
    PP 24%
    Vox 20%
    Pobemos 12%
    every other party on 3.5% or less

    (ElectoPanel/Electomanía; sample size = 1,823; 31 Dec - 6 Jan)

    PP and Vox more than PS and Podemos so Sanchez like Starmer would need to do a deal with the Nationalists
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 21,054
    HYUFD said:

    First Spanish poll of 2022 and those nasty Unionists Ciudadanos pretty much obliterated.

    PS 25%
    PP 24%
    Vox 20%
    Pobemos 12%
    every other party on 3.5% or less

    (ElectoPanel/Electomanía; sample size = 1,823; 31 Dec - 6 Jan)

    PP and Vox more than PS and Podemos so Sanchez like Starmer would need to do a deal with the Nationalists
    But PP and Vox ARE the Nationalists!
  • First Spanish poll of 2022 and those nasty Unionists Ciudadanos pretty much obliterated.

    PS 25%
    PP 24%
    Vox 20%
    Pobemos 12%
    every other party on 3.5% or less

    (ElectoPanel/Electomanía; sample size = 1,823; 31 Dec - 6 Jan)

    What has gone wrong for them?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 97,784
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    First Spanish poll of 2022 and those nasty Unionists Ciudadanos pretty much obliterated.

    PS 25%
    PP 24%
    Vox 20%
    Pobemos 12%
    every other party on 3.5% or less

    (ElectoPanel/Electomanía; sample size = 1,823; 31 Dec - 6 Jan)

    PP and Vox more than PS and Podemos so Sanchez like Starmer would need to do a deal with the Nationalists
    But PP and Vox ARE the Nationalists!
    Not regional nationalists, PP are the conservatives, Vox the far right
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 31,424
    Aslan said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RP streets ahead

    The nation is in thrall to the poshest. This I am afraid is a serious obstacle for the fair Angela

    Why no Scots, except the obligatory weegie hate? Some Scots accents are lovely, and I thought they were generally rated most trustworthy, hence the banks having call centres there

    RP is not limited to the posh. That is heigtened RP, its own accent. Most middle income people across the South East (London aside) speak a form of RP.

    I agree with you a Scots accent rates extremely well. It was an advantage for Gordon Brown I think. The best is probably an Edinburgh accent.
    In general the polling on accents declines with perceived urban origins and lower social class (Brum, Scouse, Glasgow etc) and increases with rural origins (West Country, Wales etc). The Geordie accent is an unusual exception to this rule.

    Working class Leicester folk have a very different accent to the Leicester County set, though that is not quite RP. Hinckley has its own accent, as does the Harborough area, which sounds almost like Norfolk.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 6,412
    edited January 9

    Foxy said:

    One of the weakest PB headers in a long time. Total pish.

    It uses a daft tweet about a dafter survey to make at least one interesting point - the one of the biggest problems with Corbynism was Corbyn.

    Also, there are lots of stories about past leaders that show that accents do matter, or at least are thought to matter. Didn't Thatcher have voice-coaching? Ed Miliband supposedly had nose surgery to tone down the whine of his voice. Appearances, and early impressions created by accents, do matter.
    One thing about accents is that people hold onto them consciously or subconsciously if they are proud of them, and lose them fairly quickly if not.

    I came back from Atlanta aged 15, but lost my American accent within 6 months, apart from the odd word. I picked up a bit of a Kiwi twang working there, but only odd word persists.

    I meet lots of Scots, Irish, Geordies and Scousers here who have kept their accents for decades, but Brum accents fade very quickly.

    I quite like Brummies though, it is the part of England most like America in its attitude to wealth, its creation and its relation to social class.
    I couldn't disagree more. I have not lived in the Birmingham area since 1976 when I was 14 and I still sound like a low rent Jasper Carrott. The Birmingham accent is an horrific nasal abomination.

    I always wanted to sound like James Mason or Patrick McNee. My MP in North Herefordshire (Leominster) Peter Temple-Morris sounded like Patrick McNee, he was worth a vote just for that.
    There's always the drastic and now dated elocution lessons option, although you might come out sounding like the blessed Margaret.
    Are elocution lessons still a thing? I seemed to remember growing up, lots of middle class parents seemed to be quite keen on sending their kids to them.
    I think some people going into the theatre still have them, but I think you're right, many fewer. It's always striking to me to see how many public figures have de-poshened their accents over the decades.

    I've no problem with RP, particularly, but in my mind the exaggerated intonations, tics and emphases of elolocution lessons stll somehow always come back to this. Steve Nallon has always been an absolute master at capturing Thatcher's exaggerated vocal tics and mannerisms.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88z_q4ctgIY
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 21,054
    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    Aslan said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RP streets ahead

    The nation is in thrall to the poshest. This I am afraid is a serious obstacle for the fair Angela

    Why no Scots, except the obligatory weegie hate? Some Scots accents are lovely, and I thought they were generally rated most trustworthy, hence the banks having call centres there

    RP is not limited to the posh. That is heigtened RP, its own accent. Most middle income people across the South East (London aside) speak a form of RP.

    I agree with you a Scots accent rates extremely well. It was an advantage for Gordon Brown I think. The best is probably an Edinburgh accent.
    Depends what you mean by an Edinburgh accent. It varies from Morningside, to competent professional, to Pilton/Leith (as in Trainspotting, which probably has examples of the gamut come to think of it).
    The son of one of my friends saw Trainspotting 2 in the cinema in Lancashire with some English friends. Like almost every Scot who watched it he was pole axed with laughter but his English friends were sitting there bemused. I think accents had something to do with it.
    I may be superimposing my mental images from the books, come to think of it, on the films. I just can't remember, actually, if the accents were done properly - but most/all the actors were Scots were they not? And if the accents were done well, the first film in particular should have had a decent range (the schoolgirl being from a professional family).
  • Gary_BurtonGary_Burton Posts: 737
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    MrEd said:

    HYUFD said:

    Drakeford won one election in Wales, a country that has not voted anything other than Labour in a national election for the last 100 years. Does not mean he would have any appeal whatsover in England.

    In fact the Welsh Conservatives also had their best ever performance at a Senedd election last year against Drakeford Labour. Burnham on the other hand won even Tory Trafford in the last Greater Manchester Mayoral election.

    While his northern accent may not be universally popular it is more popular in the redwall, the key swing region for Labour to prevent another Tory majority

    Although Trafford these days is not really Tory. It's a Labour council and there has been an influx of professional, middle-class types who (a) have found Chorlton and Didsbury too expensive and like the housing stock, particularly in the north of the borough (b) more importantly, it still retains the 11+, which is a big draw and which the Labour Council has smartly kept on - the 11+ used to be the defining issue in Trafford elections.
    In fact. The Tory borough in GM is now Bolton. Has the safest Tory MP in GM too. Which is quite a turn around.
    Bolton West was Labour from 1997-2010 however and Starmer would likely need to win it for Labour to get most seats and certainly for a majority
    Probably true, I can quite easily see Graham Brady losing at the next election though even if Labour only gets 260-280 seats. The anti Tory trend at a local level in Trafford is quite incredible. It now looks as though Hale Barns and Bowden are the only safe Tory wards left in the whole of Trafford with the Greens having turned Altrincham into a fortress and Hale Central into a marginal.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 33,017
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    First Spanish poll of 2022 and those nasty Unionists Ciudadanos pretty much obliterated.

    PS 25%
    PP 24%
    Vox 20%
    Pobemos 12%
    every other party on 3.5% or less

    (ElectoPanel/Electomanía; sample size = 1,823; 31 Dec - 6 Jan)

    PP and Vox more than PS and Podemos so Sanchez like Starmer would need to do a deal with the Nationalists
    But PP and Vox ARE the Nationalists!
    Not regional nationalists, PP are the conservatives, Vox the far right
    National nationalists are the worst kind.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 21,054
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    First Spanish poll of 2022 and those nasty Unionists Ciudadanos pretty much obliterated.

    PS 25%
    PP 24%
    Vox 20%
    Pobemos 12%
    every other party on 3.5% or less

    (ElectoPanel/Electomanía; sample size = 1,823; 31 Dec - 6 Jan)

    PP and Vox more than PS and Podemos so Sanchez like Starmer would need to do a deal with the Nationalists
    But PP and Vox ARE the Nationalists!
    Not regional nationalists, PP are the conservatives, Vox the far right
    Nacionalistas. That means nationalists.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,304
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    First Spanish poll of 2022 and those nasty Unionists Ciudadanos pretty much obliterated.

    PS 25%
    PP 24%
    Vox 20%
    Pobemos 12%
    every other party on 3.5% or less

    (ElectoPanel/Electomanía; sample size = 1,823; 31 Dec - 6 Jan)

    PP and Vox more than PS and Podemos so Sanchez like Starmer would need to do a deal with the Nationalists
    But PP and Vox ARE the Nationalists!
    Not regional nationalists, PP are the conservatives, Vox the far right
    Regional nationalists? You mean regionalists?

    PP and Vox are the real deal: drenched in Franco’s legacy.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 21,054

    Foxy said:

    One of the weakest PB headers in a long time. Total pish.

    It uses a daft tweet about a dafter survey to make at least one interesting point - the one of the biggest problems with Corbynism was Corbyn.

    Also, there are lots of stories about past leaders that show that accents do matter, or at least are thought to matter. Didn't Thatcher have voice-coaching? Ed Miliband supposedly had nose surgery to tone down the whine of his voice. Appearances, and early impressions created by accents, do matter.
    One thing about accents is that people hold onto them consciously or subconsciously if they are proud of them, and lose them fairly quickly if not.

    I came back from Atlanta aged 15, but lost my American accent within 6 months, apart from the odd word. I picked up a bit of a Kiwi twang working there, but only odd word persists.

    I meet lots of Scots, Irish, Geordies and Scousers here who have kept their accents for decades, but Brum accents fade very quickly.

    I quite like Brummies though, it is the part of England most like America in its attitude to wealth, its creation and its relation to social class.
    I couldn't disagree more. I have not lived in the Birmingham area since 1976 when I was 14 and I still sound like a low rent Jasper Carrott. The Birmingham accent is an horrific nasal abomination.

    I always wanted to sound like James Mason or Patrick McNee. My MP in North Herefordshire (Leominster) Peter Temple-Morris sounded like Patrick McNee, he was worth a vote just for that.
    There's always the drastic and now dated elocution lessons option, although you might come out sounding like the blessed Margaret.
    Are elocution lessons still a thing? I seemed to remember growing up, lots of middle class parents seemed to be quite keen on sending their kids to them.
    I think some people going into the theatre still have them, but I think you're right, many fewer. It's always striking to me to see how many public figures have de-poshened their accents over the decades.

    I've no problem with RP, particularly, but in my mind the exaggerated intonations, tics and emphases of elolocution lessons stll somehow always come back to this. Steve Nallon is an absolute master at capturing Thatcher's exaggerated vocal tics and mannerisms.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88z_q4ctgIY
    For an exaggerated RP Scots style you want Morningside (Edinburgh) or Kelvinside (Glasgow). The former is tricky to imitate.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weHcrCAOHhw
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,304

    First Spanish poll of 2022 and those nasty Unionists Ciudadanos pretty much obliterated.

    PS 25%
    PP 24%
    Vox 20%
    Pobemos 12%
    every other party on 3.5% or less

    (ElectoPanel/Electomanía; sample size = 1,823; 31 Dec - 6 Jan)

    What has gone wrong for them?
    https://www.catalannews.com/politics/item/why-is-ciudadanos-deep-in-crisis
  • RogerRoger Posts: 16,282
    I saw a detailed analysis of accents which was researched and compiled for ad agencies to help in selecting voice overs. They were interesting and predictable at the same time. A central casting for voices. I saw it in about 2000 and I can't remember the detail other than Edinburgh accents were good for insurance companies and financial institutions because the person was considered to be honest and London accents were good for a hard sell because they were good at identifying bargains.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 10,431
    DavidL said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RP streets ahead

    The nation is in thrall to the poshest. This I am afraid is a serious obstacle for the fair Angela

    Why no Scots, except the obligatory weegie hate? Some Scots accents are lovely, and I thought they were generally rated most trustworthy, hence the banks having call centres there

    Yes, the Highland accent in particular is lovely, it has the same singing quality to it that the Welsh do and, well, they are not Welsh.
    The accent in The Flow Country, always reminds me of a mixture between "Scots" and RP. It has a beautiful educated sound to it. Quite the opposite of the aggressive cadences of Glasgow.
This discussion has been closed.