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Lol! BeautifulAndyJS said:Sky News: Roger Lord is now apparently offering to be the Tory candidate.
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Shows how in the dark CCHQ were/are, unfortunately.Charles said:Mark Wallace has my favourite scoop of the day - made me chuckle
https://twitter.com/wallaceme/status/504946756501913600/photo/10 -
There is some research that indicates a significant % of senior managers are suffering from Narcissist Personality Disorder or Psychopathy. Of course these are disorders with a spectrum like Autism. I can honestly say that I've worked for several people I'd consider to be text book NPDers and a single near psychopath. And very successful they were too/respected - but feared. There lies at the heart of these personality types, a tendency to lack of empathy for others/self-centred behaviour. I wouldn't be at all surprised to discover my experiences are typical.Sean_F said:
Which is why I now believe that a significant proportion of people in positions of authority are objectively evil, a point of view which I would once have considered the province of tin foil hat wearers.Cyclefree said:I'm both intrigued and appalled at the idea that Labour may want to quash any further inquiries into child abuse for fear it will lose them votes. Do they really want to be seen as the party that protects "kiddie fiddlers"?
Much as I dislike Labour can this really be so?
Incidentally, the interview with Andrew Norfolk on this morning's Today programme is worth listening to. He makes it clear that the racial element is a key one, that it's going on in lots of other towns, that the authorities were desperate to stop any story coming out and that Shaun Wright's response to him was "Why are you picking on Rotherham?"
That journalist deserves every award going. He's a rebuke to all those who think, post-Leveson, that the press need controlling.
This story is exactly why we we need a free press that publishes stories which the authorities did their damndest to hide from us.0 -
Conkipper or Kippercon? The residents of Jaywick decideAndyJS said:Sky News: Roger Lord is now apparently offering to be the Tory candidate.
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Okay, thanks. If you know of any candidates that are missing from candidates spreadsheet let me know.Sean_F said:
No. We haven't chosen one yet.AndyJS said:
Are you the UKIP candidate for Luton South? I'll add you to my candidates' list if so.Sean_F said:
There's no split UKIP vote. Mr. Lord is just being silly.HYUFD said:Speedy Rubbish, the seat has an in-built Tory majority, especially after boundary changes, there is no reason a good local Tory candidate should not have a chance, especially with a split UKIP vote
If I were chosen to fight Luton South for UKIP, and then Gavin Shuker joined UKIP, of course i'd stand down for the sitting MP. And nor would I expect to be included in high-level, secret, negotiations.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0At91c3wX1Wu5dFkzTjFrRmJRN3F6ODBTTEs4NGFhcUE&type=view&gid=0&f=true&sortcolid=-1&sortasc=true&page=1&rowsperpage=2500 -
Indeed, and I said that grammar schools may be part of the solution. But all people talk about are the high achievers and the other, more important, end gets forgotten. Perhaps because most of those doing the talking are, like most of us on here, from the upper end of academic achievement and have little knowledge of the failures. (*)HYUFD said:Josias There is no contradiction between having grammar schools and an effective literacy and numeracy strategy and funding for early years, none at all
Can you point to where UKIP (in favour of grammar schools) talk about the lower end of educational achievement? After all, that is where most of the talk needs to be.
(*) Unlike me, Mr has.no.degree. ;-)0 -
Sounds ideal for Islington North or Brighton Pavilion. But Essex? I think not.Speedy said:
So you think that if the Tories select a candidate from the public sector who is a member of a trade union who supports gay marriages and calls for lots of spending increases, will be the way for them to win in Douglas Carswell's seat?HYUFD said:Speedy No, as I said he is for deeper spending cuts than the Tories, hence alienating public sector workers, opposes gay marriage, thus alienating virtually all young and socially liberal voters and LDs and many Tories. There is ample ammunition for the Tories to capitalise on if they pick a good local candidate
Why they don't just support a Socialist Workers Party candidate if you think that would be popular in Clacton.
Come on HYUFD be a realist, let it go.0 -
That is what I guess most UKIP supporters believe, that Cameron heart is not aboutIOS said:When is the election being held?
If I were UKIP I would call it just before the Tory party conference. Make Camerons announcement about campaigning against the EU seem very very hollow.
leaving the EU, whatever the mythical red lines will be.
He will eventually say as Wilson did, he has been successful, so we should all bow down to
him, and with a serious consideration of what he has achieved vote yes.
Hollow be thy name.
A Cameron withdrawal method ,will not satisfy the parts of a kipper.0 -
Depends whether you find Terminally Bewildered an attractive trait or not I suppose.SeanT said:
I've met Louise, and I can say this. Whatever her faults or virtues, you would.Charles said:
I've no idea. But I don't judge people on their background or parental wealth, so don't really care.Socrates said:
I'm sure Mummy and Daddy paid for very good tutors to get her there.Charles said:
She probably has a better degree from a better university than you do, mind.Hugh said:
She's thick as two short planks.Scrapheap_as_was said:btw, isn't louise mensch a potty mouth...
Just sayin'
(FWIW, I've never met Louise, although she had a somewhat "interesting" reputation that still lingered when I went up to Oxford a few years after her)0 -
True and they have little incentive to use up their resources here. I don't see Labour people voting tactically this time though, Carswell won't get up their noses like Helmer did. Question is whether they will bother?AndyJS said:
Labour's vote dropped in Newark. Maybe that will be a guide to their fortunes in Clacton.FrankBooth said:10/1 on Labour looks fantastic. Surely they should be looking to get 30%. Only trouble is whether their votersrefuse to take part because they think it's a vanity project and they want no part of it - see David Davis.
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Yeah they would be out of their mind to field him. Better someone not parachuted in, are there any strong Blue candidates on the council?Speedy said:
Let him, reporters will have a field day reporting every word about that 16 year old in Nicaragua and her gun.AndyJS said:Sky News: Roger Lord is now apparently offering to be the Tory candidate.
Let the Tories run the clown and let UKIP run the serious guy.0 -
If Roger Lord is the Tory candidate against Douglas Carswell will the Tories lose their deposit in Clacton?0
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She's one of the UK's most successful authors.Hugh said:
Depends whether you find Terminally Bewildered an attractive trait or not I suppose.SeanT said:
I've met Louise, and I can say this. Whatever her faults or virtues, you would.Charles said:
I've no idea. But I don't judge people on their background or parental wealth, so don't really care.Socrates said:
I'm sure Mummy and Daddy paid for very good tutors to get her there.Charles said:
She probably has a better degree from a better university than you do, mind.Hugh said:
She's thick as two short planks.Scrapheap_as_was said:btw, isn't louise mensch a potty mouth...
Just sayin'
(FWIW, I've never met Louise, although she had a somewhat "interesting" reputation that still lingered when I went up to Oxford a few years after her)0 -
Terminal suggests you wouldn't be saddled with her for life and bewilderment can be temporarily stymied by a dose of inflagrante delicto focussing. So probably, yes.Hugh said:
Depends whether you find Terminally Bewildered an attractive trait or not I suppose.SeanT said:
I've met Louise, and I can say this. Whatever her faults or virtues, you would.Charles said:
I've no idea. But I don't judge people on their background or parental wealth, so don't really care.Socrates said:
I'm sure Mummy and Daddy paid for very good tutors to get her there.Charles said:
She probably has a better degree from a better university than you do, mind.Hugh said:
She's thick as two short planks.Scrapheap_as_was said:btw, isn't louise mensch a potty mouth...
Just sayin'
(FWIW, I've never met Louise, although she had a somewhat "interesting" reputation that still lingered when I went up to Oxford a few years after her)0 -
So was Babs, and she was as mad as a box of gophersSean_F said:
She's one of the UK's most successful authors.Hugh said:
Depends whether you find Terminally Bewildered an attractive trait or not I suppose.SeanT said:
I've met Louise, and I can say this. Whatever her faults or virtues, you would.Charles said:
I've no idea. But I don't judge people on their background or parental wealth, so don't really care.Socrates said:
I'm sure Mummy and Daddy paid for very good tutors to get her there.Charles said:
She probably has a better degree from a better university than you do, mind.Hugh said:
She's thick as two short planks.Scrapheap_as_was said:btw, isn't louise mensch a potty mouth...
Just sayin'
(FWIW, I've never met Louise, although she had a somewhat "interesting" reputation that still lingered when I went up to Oxford a few years after her)0 -
AndyJS Yes, and Carswell will win most of the older vote, but 75% of the Clacton electorate are not pensioners0
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No, they probably just followed Carswell to UKIP:RobD said:
Yeah they would be out of their mind to field him. Better someone not parachuted in, are there any strong Blue candidates on the council?Speedy said:
Let him, reporters will have a field day reporting every word about that 16 year old in Nicaragua and her gun.AndyJS said:Sky News: Roger Lord is now apparently offering to be the Tory candidate.
Let the Tories run the clown and let UKIP run the serious guy.
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/08/28/Local-Council-May-Follow-Carswell-to-UKIP0 -
Miss Plato, read an interesting piece some time ago suggesting many psych disorders were helpful to mankind's early rise. Psychopaths make fantastic leaders (many top business/political leaders are psychopaths), and other psych issues can be very bad for the individual but can also coincide with fantastic creativity.
In addition, high intelligence has a high level of co-morbidity with psychological conditions.0 -
The entitre local Tory party in Clacton maybe in meltdown as we speak.0
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Have a report on my desk by nine or I'll eat your spleenMorris_Dancer said:Miss Plato, read an interesting piece some time ago suggesting many psych disorders were helpful to mankind's early rise. Psychopaths make fantastic leaders (many top business/political leaders are psychopaths), and other psych issues can be very bad for the individual but can also coincide with fantastic creativity.
In addition, high intelligence has a high level of co-morbidity with psychological conditions.0 -
Leave out local and in Clacton.Speedy said:The entitre local Tory party in Clacton maybe in meltdown as we speak.
Frit is the new black0 -
Wow! Implied probability at Betfair of a YES win in Scotland has risen to 21.5%
The next poll is going to be big.0 -
We wait to see who and how many.Speedy said:
No, they probably just followed Carswell to UKIP:RobD said:
Yeah they would be out of their mind to field him. Better someone not parachuted in, are there any strong Blue candidates on the council?Speedy said:
Let him, reporters will have a field day reporting every word about that 16 year old in Nicaragua and her gun.AndyJS said:Sky News: Roger Lord is now apparently offering to be the Tory candidate.
Let the Tories run the clown and let UKIP run the serious guy.
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/08/28/Local-Council-May-Follow-Carswell-to-UKIP
Sourth Essex is quite unlike the north. Parts of Carswell's seat - less so because of the coast - are rural; Conservative values do well because Westminster seems a long way away. UKIP would be wrong to treat Clacton the same way as, for example, Thurrock.Sean_F said:HYUFD said:ManofKent Maybe, and certainly Carswell is a stronger favourite than Helmer, but ideologically there is no difference between the two. As I keep saying the Tories should pick an inoffensive local gp or teacher in an open primary, then ram home Carswell's reactionary views to Labour and LD supporters, make the race a Tory v UKIP battle, and perhaps squeak home
This is Essex. Essex voters are very right wing. Carswell will win.0 -
Essex and Kent purple to hold the balance of power?0
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Harry Kane's job at Spurs is too make Bobby Sol look class.0
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It is a start but the scale is far, far too small. There would need to be a technical school within daily travelling distance of every child in the country to make the sort of difference we need.HYUFD said:HurstLlama Ken Baker has sensibly proposed just such a reintroduction and indeed the government has adopted the idea and the first 17 technical schools have opened with 30 more to come http://www.utcolleges.org/
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It's possible the majority of votes will be cast by people over 60.HYUFD said:AndyJS Yes, and Carswell will win most of the older vote, but 75% of the Clacton electorate are not pensioners
As I posted before, 52.5% of the adult population are 55+ and they have a higher turnout rate.0 -
Mr. Woolie, actually, lots of psychopaths are law-abiding. The problem is that the ones who aren't are really rather skilled at criminal behaviour. And it's not a condition that can be stopped or treated.
In the US (this is from QI) in the '70s they tried talking therapy, where they had groups of psychopaths discussing things to try and 'normalise' them. After release, it turned out the highly intelligent criminals had simply swapped tips and were much harder to catch upon their immediate return to law-breaking.0 -
This is one of many examples of just how much the modern day Conservatives under Mr Cameron have entirely lost the plot:
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/08/25/children-are-tax-on-medals-given-their-father-in-war/0 -
I doubt it, though after this UKIP will probable get more seats than expected.dyedwoolie said:Essex and Kent purple to hold the balance of power?
Unfortunately we have to wait until Tuesday to see the impact of this as polls wont measure the full effect until then.0 -
were you typing that with one hand ? so to speak.Charles said:
That's an argument for a different day.Alanbrooke said:
I mean is it ?Charles said:
It does have relevance to his claim that she is "thick as two short planks" which was what I was responding to.TOPPING said:
Which has no relevance to Hugh's comments on any politician including La Mensch. Or are we not allowed to criticise our "betters"?Charles said:
She probably has a better degree from a better university than you do, mind.Hugh said:
She's thick as two short planks.Scrapheap_as_was said:btw, isn't louise mensch a potty mouth...
Just sayin'
I'd be happy to accept university/degree class is not a perfect measure of intelligence, but it's a reasonable proxy.
A degree might measure intellect or the ability to think in a set way but intelligence has many more facets, not least emotional. The problem we face is that people with degrees like to puff themselves up on a single measure even though many of them are pure dorks who can't eat a bacon sandwich.
I'd say that EI is on a completely different scale, rather than just being a different facet - clearly a degree in not relevant.
But, by implication at least, "thick" is related to intelligence - and admission to Oxford is a reasonable proxy for that. A degree from there is more about ability to absorb and interpret data rather than intelligence per se (so more correctly a measure of intellect)0 -
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I'd be surprised if Lab + LD don't have a majority of seats. Unless Ukip can take some seats off Labour which still looks tricky.dyedwoolie said:Essex and Kent purple to hold the balance of power?
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The original story:hunchman said:This is one of many examples of just how much the modern day Conservatives under Mr Cameron have entirely lost the plot:
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/08/25/children-are-tax-on-medals-given-their-father-in-war/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/tax/11047065/I-was-told-to-pay-death-duty-on-Dads-medals.html
Ok the Tories have put many ridiculous taxes but this one takes the cake.
Or the silver metal after pasty tax.0 -
FrankBooth Thurrock was Labour even in 1992, though the Tories gained it last time, it now looks to be UKIP0
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Exactly. There's a certain charisma that accompanies much of this too. You won't find a successful cult leader who doesn't have NPD. They have some great qualities, and not just the cliches that tend to be bandied about.Morris_Dancer said:Miss Plato, read an interesting piece some time ago suggesting many psych disorders were helpful to mankind's early rise. Psychopaths make fantastic leaders (many top business/political leaders are psychopaths), and other psych issues can be very bad for the individual but can also coincide with fantastic creativity.
In addition, high intelligence has a high level of co-morbidity with psychological conditions.
The ones I've known and had as good friends are extremely loyal, will protect you in extremis and superbly daring/funny company. They get things done. They tend to have very few friends as a lot of the behaviour is about protecting themselves emotionally/not feeling good enough [perfection is the yardstick] - but once you're inside the tent, it gives you a very special status...you're no longer a muggle, but one of them.
Because they're often very clever - they use it to dominate situations either verbally or intellectually. This is frequently quite bullying, if the person is really off the leash - especially when dealing with performances that don't meet their self-imposed standards of perfection. Very black and white in their views too, not people to cross or lie to. Trust is a big one for them - and revenge is dealt out accordingly.
Some folk find them really high maintenance or intimidating/cruel - I like them, they keep you on your toes all the time. Being on the wrong end of one is painful to watch, it's like Christians being fed to lions.0 -
Fine. Vote for out.Yorkcity said:
That is what I guess most UKIP supporters believe, that Cameron heart is not aboutIOS said:When is the election being held?
If I were UKIP I would call it just before the Tory party conference. Make Camerons announcement about campaigning against the EU seem very very hollow.
leaving the EU, whatever the mythical red lines will be.
He will eventually say as Wilson did, he has been successful, so we should all bow down to
him, and with a serious consideration of what he has achieved vote yes.
Hollow be thy name.
A Cameron withdrawal method ,will not satisfy the parts of a kipper.
My generation have never got a say on our membership of the EU.
Thank you for preventing that for, at minimum, another 10 years. That means I'll have lived all my life with an increasing democratic deficit.0 -
Clacton's most famous export:
http://www.metrolyrics.com/sade-pictures.html
http://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/4861519.Sade___s_first_album_in_10_years/0 -
The BBC might push the Rotherham story:
"Norfolk says he wasn’t unwilling to take up the story, but emphasises that it was “entirely driven” but Harding, who left The Times in December and is now head of news for the BBC."
http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/more-two-years-‘vindicated’-times-sex-abuse-investigation-nearing-end0 -
A Girlfriend was there at the same time and college. Bag up....SeanT said:
I've met Louise, and I can say this. Whatever her faults or virtues, you would.Charles said:
I've no idea. But I don't judge people on their background or parental wealth, so don't really care.Socrates said:
I'm sure Mummy and Daddy paid for very good tutors to get her there.Charles said:
She probably has a better degree from a better university than you do, mind.Hugh said:
She's thick as two short planks.Scrapheap_as_was said:btw, isn't louise mensch a potty mouth...
Just sayin'
(FWIW, I've never met Louise, although she had a somewhat "interesting" reputation that still lingered when I went up to Oxford a few years after her)0 -
Speedy, No I am supporting a centrist Tory, prudent on economics, but also respecting the public sector, and with traditional values, but also socially tolerant, ie a respected local headmaster or GP, not Peter Tatchell!!0
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It's been like a filtering process where as it got worse the people who couldn't stomach it quit leaving lots of smug sociopaths who could.Sean_F said:
Which is why I now believe that a significant proportion of people in positions of authority are objectively evil, a point of view which I would once have considered the province of tin foil hat wearers.Cyclefree said:I'm both intrigued and appalled at the idea that Labour may want to quash any further inquiries into child abuse for fear it will lose them votes. Do they really want to be seen as the party that protects "kiddie fiddlers"?
Much as I dislike Labour can this really be so?
Incidentally, the interview with Andrew Norfolk on this morning's Today programme is worth listening to. He makes it clear that the racial element is a key one, that it's going on in lots of other towns, that the authorities were desperate to stop any story coming out and that Shaun Wright's response to him was "Why are you picking on Rotherham?"
That journalist deserves every award going. He's a rebuke to all those who think, post-Leveson, that the press need controlling.
This story is exactly why we we need a free press that publishes stories which the authorities did their damndest to hide from us.
On the other hand that means there's a lot of ex nomenklatura with stories to tell.
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Local Clacton news:
http://www.clactonandfrintongazette.co.uk/news/11438797.Carswell_s_UKIP_move___what_the_voters_think/?ref=var_0
"But while the move may cost him some Conservative votes, a lot of constituents are planning to stick with him."0 -
When did any generation last get a say on the House of Lords?Charles said:
Fine. Vote for out.Yorkcity said:
That is what I guess most UKIP supporters believe, that Cameron heart is not aboutIOS said:When is the election being held?
If I were UKIP I would call it just before the Tory party conference. Make Camerons announcement about campaigning against the EU seem very very hollow.
leaving the EU, whatever the mythical red lines will be.
He will eventually say as Wilson did, he has been successful, so we should all bow down to
him, and with a serious consideration of what he has achieved vote yes.
Hollow be thy name.
A Cameron withdrawal method ,will not satisfy the parts of a kipper.
My generation have never got a say on our membership of the EU.
Thank you for preventing that for, at minimum, another 10 years. That means I'll have lived all my life with an increasing democratic deficit.0 -
Thanks.Scrapheap_as_was said:Harry Kane's job at Spurs is too make Bobby Sol look class.
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Speedy Tories should run an open primary and if Roger Lord wants to run let him0
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Three fingers. Never got further than that.Alanbrooke said:
were you typing that with one hand ? so to speak.Charles said:
That's an argument for a different day.Alanbrooke said:
I mean is it ?Charles said:
It does have relevance to his claim that she is "thick as two short planks" which was what I was responding to.TOPPING said:
Which has no relevance to Hugh's comments on any politician including La Mensch. Or are we not allowed to criticise our "betters"?Charles said:
She probably has a better degree from a better university than you do, mind.Hugh said:
She's thick as two short planks.Scrapheap_as_was said:btw, isn't louise mensch a potty mouth...
Just sayin'
I'd be happy to accept university/degree class is not a perfect measure of intelligence, but it's a reasonable proxy.
A degree might measure intellect or the ability to think in a set way but intelligence has many more facets, not least emotional. The problem we face is that people with degrees like to puff themselves up on a single measure even though many of them are pure dorks who can't eat a bacon sandwich.
I'd say that EI is on a completely different scale, rather than just being a different facet - clearly a degree in not relevant.
But, by implication at least, "thick" is related to intelligence - and admission to Oxford is a reasonable proxy for that. A degree from there is more about ability to absorb and interpret data rather than intelligence per se (so more correctly a measure of intellect)0 -
Josias I believe UKIP talk about vocational training and apprenticeships etc0
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Speedy Though were Peter Tatchell to agree to be the Tory candidate I think we can safely say the Cameron modernisation project has truly arrived!!0
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bit early
Sun Politics@Sun_Politics·31 secs
Tonight's YouGov/Sun poll: Labour are back to a 3 point lead and the Libs are very low - CON 33%, LAB 36%, LDEM 7%, UKIP 13%.0 -
Not if Labour - can't be trusted with your health, your money, the safety of your kids or the security of your borders, takes hold. That's the line from here on in. Tack soft right and portray Labour as hard left with dodgy associates.FrankBooth said:
I'd be surprised if Lab + LD don't have a majority of seats. Unless Ukip can take some seats off Labour which still looks tricky.dyedwoolie said:Essex and Kent purple to hold the balance of power?
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Don't think it is a "Tory tax" - just the HMRC probate rules, which sound like they have been in place many years.Speedy said:
The original story:hunchman said:This is one of many examples of just how much the modern day Conservatives under Mr Cameron have entirely lost the plot:
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/08/25/children-are-tax-on-medals-given-their-father-in-war/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/tax/11047065/I-was-told-to-pay-death-duty-on-Dads-medals.html
Ok the Tories have put many ridiculous taxes but this one takes the cake.
Or the silver metal after pasty tax.
Medals for gallantry (VC, GC, etc) are tax free. Service medals are taxable - I guess some bright spark deems them deferred income or somesuch.0 -
No effect from Rotherham so far.Scrapheap_as_was said:bit early
Sun Politics@Sun_Politics·31 secs
Tonight's YouGov/Sun poll: Labour are back to a 3 point lead and the Libs are very low - CON 33%, LAB 36%, LDEM 7%, UKIP 13%.
Well its Saturday or bust.0 -
All of this polling would have been conducted after that story broke.Speedy said:
No effect from Rotherham so far.Scrapheap_as_was said:bit early
Sun Politics@Sun_Politics·31 secs
Tonight's YouGov/Sun poll: Labour are back to a 3 point lead and the Libs are very low - CON 33%, LAB 36%, LDEM 7%, UKIP 13%.
Well its Saturday or bust.
One a somewhat related note, I wonder if the various seat prediction websites are going to all be predicting UKIP as having 1 seat at the next election?0 -
Exactly. Psychopaths don't experience *empathy* and have no idea what that feels like. They therefore are extremely skilled at deducing what's going on using verbal cues, body language etc.
That makes them expert confidence tricksters for example because they feel no prick of conscience when defrauding old ladies - they can spot a mark at 1000yrds.
A really smart psychopath is very hard to spot, because they're excellent at acting their part. People are just means to an end. I read a really interesting report by a forensic [those who deal with criminal patients] psychiatrist about psychopathy - and at the end - he decided that using his own framework, he was one too.
Fascinating stuff. This piece by Tom Chivers is a good postage stamp about it > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/10737827/Psychopaths-how-can-you-spot-one.html“Psychopaths do think they’re more rational than other people, that this isn’t a deficit,” says Hare. “I met one offender who was certainly a psychopath who said ‘My problem is that according to psychiatrists I think more with my head than my heart. What am I supposed to do about that? Am I supposed to get all teary-eyed?’ ” Another, asked if he had any regrets about stabbing a robbery victim, replied: “Get real! He spends a few months in hospital and I rot here. If I wanted to kill him I would have slit his throat. That’s the kind of guy I am; I gave him a break.”
And yet, as Hare points out, when you’re talking about people who aren’t criminals, who might be successful in life, it’s difficult to categorise it as a disorder. “It’d be pretty hard for me to go into high-level political or economic or academic context and pick out all the most successful people and say, ‘Look, I think you’ve got some brain deficit.’ One of my inmates said that his problem was that he’s a cat in a world of mice. If you compare the brainwave activity of a cat and a mouse, you’d find they were quite different.”Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Woolie, actually, lots of psychopaths are law-abiding. The problem is that the ones who aren't are really rather skilled at criminal behaviour. And it's not a condition that can be stopped or treated.
In the US (this is from QI) in the '70s they tried talking therapy, where they had groups of psychopaths discussing things to try and 'normalise' them. After release, it turned out the highly intelligent criminals had simply swapped tips and were much harder to catch upon their immediate return to law-breaking.0 -
I can't believe I need to say this every time there's a big news event and people post polls saying there's no effect: it takes time for these things to filter through people's consciousness and voting decisions. The public is not rash, and they dwell on things before changing their minds. We won't know the true effect on the polls of this for a week or so.RobD said:
All of this polling would have been conducted after that story broke.Speedy said:
No effect from Rotherham so far.Scrapheap_as_was said:bit early
Sun Politics@Sun_Politics·31 secs
Tonight's YouGov/Sun poll: Labour are back to a 3 point lead and the Libs are very low - CON 33%, LAB 36%, LDEM 7%, UKIP 13%.
Well its Saturday or bust.
One a somewhat related note, I wonder if the various seat prediction websites are going to all be predicting UKIP as having 1 seat at the next election?0 -
I dunno, if Cameron went and ate a baby I think there'd be a pretty quick shift in the polls.......Socrates said:
I can't believe I need to say this every time there's a big news event and people post polls saying there's no effect: it takes time for these things to filter through people's consciousness and voting decisions. The public is not rash, and they dwell on things before changing their minds. We won't know the true effect on the polls of this for a week or so.RobD said:
All of this polling would have been conducted after that story broke.Speedy said:
No effect from Rotherham so far.Scrapheap_as_was said:bit early
Sun Politics@Sun_Politics·31 secs
Tonight's YouGov/Sun poll: Labour are back to a 3 point lead and the Libs are very low - CON 33%, LAB 36%, LDEM 7%, UKIP 13%.
Well its Saturday or bust.
One a somewhat related note, I wonder if the various seat prediction websites are going to all be predicting UKIP as having 1 seat at the next election?0 -
No, you just judge people on what university they went to, taking it as judgment of their ability, even though it's highly correlated with their background and parental wealth.Charles said:
I've no idea. But I don't judge people on their background or parental wealth, so don't really care.Socrates said:
I'm sure Mummy and Daddy paid for very good tutors to get her there.Charles said:
She probably has a better degree from a better university than you do, mind.Hugh said:
She's thick as two short planks.Scrapheap_as_was said:btw, isn't louise mensch a potty mouth...
Just sayin'
(FWIW, I've never met Louise, although she had a somewhat "interesting" reputation that still lingered when I went up to Oxford a few years after her)
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Price on Yes dropping like a stone, 10/3 with Betfair and it was over 6s a couple of days ago.
An indy poll coming out in the Daily Mail tomorrow, which I hope is connected.0 -
Tonights YG LAB 341 CON 266 LD 17
Ed is crap is PM0 -
It's not that they dwell on individual events, it's more a building in of ongoing coverage.Socrates said:
I can't believe I need to say this every time there's a big news event and people post polls saying there's no effect: it takes time for these things to filter through people's consciousness and voting decisions. The public is not rash, and they dwell on things before changing their minds. We won't know the true effect on the polls of this for a week or so.RobD said:
All of this polling would have been conducted after that story broke.Speedy said:
No effect from Rotherham so far.Scrapheap_as_was said:bit early
Sun Politics@Sun_Politics·31 secs
Tonight's YouGov/Sun poll: Labour are back to a 3 point lead and the Libs are very low - CON 33%, LAB 36%, LDEM 7%, UKIP 13%.
Well its Saturday or bust.
One a somewhat related note, I wonder if the various seat prediction websites are going to all be predicting UKIP as having 1 seat at the next election?0 -
The penny is starting to dropTheuniondivvie said:Price on Yes dropping like a stone, 10/3 with Betfair and it was over 6 a couple of days ago.
An indy poll coming out in the Daily Mail tomorrow, which I hope is connected.0 -
A bit difficult as he is a left wing radical denounced even by Michael Foot.HYUFD said:Speedy Though were Peter Tatchell to agree to be the Tory candidate I think we can safely say the Cameron modernisation project has truly arrived!!
But that is my point, your proposals are desperate, it's like proposing Margaret Thatcher as a Labour party candidate in 1983.
Just let it go HYUFD, Carswell has won the race already.0 -
@Plato
Only intelligent sociopaths can do the acting to cover it up. Most struggle in life.
As for the emotional-logical split, you don't necessarily need huge emotional empathy to not be a sociopath. You can be completely stoic: as long as you have a moral compass, you can be a good person on entirely logical grounds.0 -
According to the report in 2005 there were 12 cases of forced marriages in Rotherham, the highest in South Yorkshire. Forced marriage is another euphemism for marital rape.anotherDave said:The BBC might push the Rotherham story:
"Norfolk says he wasn’t unwilling to take up the story, but emphasises that it was “entirely driven” but Harding, who left The Times in December and is now head of news for the BBC."
http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/more-two-years-‘vindicated’-times-sex-abuse-investigation-nearing-end
Violent misogyny indeed. Remind me why importing such a culture into Britain enriches us......0 -
I have noticed on major events that yougov have a 3 day delay in totally registering them, regardless of field day, a bit like the populus mystery friday's to monday's difference.RobD said:
All of this polling would have been conducted after that story broke.Speedy said:
No effect from Rotherham so far.Scrapheap_as_was said:bit early
Sun Politics@Sun_Politics·31 secs
Tonight's YouGov/Sun poll: Labour are back to a 3 point lead and the Libs are very low - CON 33%, LAB 36%, LDEM 7%, UKIP 13%.
Well its Saturday or bust.
One a somewhat related note, I wonder if the various seat prediction websites are going to all be predicting UKIP as having 1 seat at the next election?
On the issue of seats the answer is no, the models work on the previous election results, that's why they are useless in this unprecedented current period.
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Carswell will be a latter-day Bob Spink and just as quickly forgotten. As for his 'personal following' - utter tripe! After Rotheram, do you think your average Essex Man will be beholden to the bloke who brought us elected Police Commissioners?0
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You can be a good person on any grounds you choose. Good is a construct, with no definable laws or definitions which meet universal acceptance. All ethics is subjective.Socrates said:@Plato
Only intelligent sociopaths can do the acting to cover it up. Most struggle in life.
As for the emotional-logical split, you don't necessarily need huge emotional empathy to not be a sociopath. You can be completely stoic: as long as you have a moral compass, you can be a good person on entirely logical grounds.0 -
The Tories are blaming this rise on immigration on EU migration they can't do anything about, but non-EU migration is up 20k.0
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Hmm, Carswell-Dick Taverne comparisons anyone? Or a gang of one?0
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Wotcha Miss P.,Plato said:
Exactly. There's a certain charisma that accompanies much of this too. You won't find a successful cult leader who doesn't have NPD. They have some great qualities, and not just the cliches that tend to be bandied about.Morris_Dancer said:Miss Plato, read an interesting piece some time ago suggesting many psych disorders were helpful to mankind's early rise. Psychopaths make fantastic leaders (many top business/political leaders are psychopaths), and other psych issues can be very bad for the individual but can also coincide with fantastic creativity.
In addition, high intelligence has a high level of co-morbidity with psychological conditions.
The ones I've known and had as good friends are extremely loyal, will protect you in extremis and superbly daring/funny company. They get things done. They tend to have very few friends as a lot of the behaviour is about protecting themselves emotionally/not feeling good enough [perfection is the yardstick] - but once you're inside the tent, it gives you a very special status...you're no longer a muggle, but one of them.
Because they're often very clever - they use it to dominate situations either verbally or intellectually. This is frequently quite bullying, if the person is really off the leash - especially when dealing with performances that don't meet their self-imposed standards of perfection. Very black and white in their views too, not people to cross or lie to. Trust is a big one for them - and revenge is dealt out accordingly.
Some folk find them really high maintenance or intimidating/cruel - I like them, they keep you on your toes all the time. Being on the wrong end of one is painful to watch, it's like Christians being fed to lions.
Didn't you get on well with a recent generation of Chief Constables? A lot of them matched your description to a T. The problem was they weren't actually good at leading, bullying and shouting, yes, but leading, no. They mostly left their respective forces and policing generally in a far worse state than they found them.
Its very easy to tell a good leader, their people want to follow them. Not just the cronies and those hoping for promotion but all their people. I used to work on a management development course for people who has just been promoted to strategic level. Day 1 and the opening question was, "OK you have now become strategic leaders in your organisation. Why should anyone follow you?" Amazingly enough very few people had ever thought about it. I even had one ACPO officer say, and I kid you not, "Because I am an Assistant Chief Constable".0 -
New thread0
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Could be right but it wouldnt be a massive surprise to see more Tory defections,corporeal said:Hmm, Carswell-Dick Taverne comparisons anyone? Or a gang of one?
TBH people like Bill Cash are surely in the wrong party.
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Dave's rousing speech at apublic private meeting in the Glasgow Hilton to those swing Tory voters might help reverse the tide.Theuniondivvie said:
Price on Yes dropping like a stone, 10/3 with Betfair and it was over 6s a couple of days ago.
An indy poll coming out in the Daily Mail tomorrow, which I hope is connected.0 -
Sociopaths are another category of behaviour - some of it overlaps.
It's a fascinating subject. In my other posting life about TV shows, we discuss characters' behaviours a lot - whether they're in character or not etc.
After one thread of mine re what makes a compelling anti-hero, we ended up with about 200 posts full of expert knowledge and real-life examples of various personality disorders/traits/made sense of apparently conflicting actions.
It got me interested in the subject, and it's really helped to see how the mechanics of a character have been built/the level of research applied by the writers to their creations.
Discussing it using *safe* proxies for the things we've seen in others made for some great knowledge sharing/perspective too.
I'm no expert by any stretch, just got a working knowledge of the main ones.Socrates said:@Plato
Only intelligent sociopaths can do the acting to cover it up. Most struggle in life.
As for the emotional-logical split, you don't necessarily need huge emotional empathy to not be a sociopath. You can be completely stoic: as long as you have a moral compass, you can be a good person on entirely logical grounds.0 -
But Dave said in the election debates that it would be down to the tens of thousands. No mention of not being able to control the numbers from the EU. I think they call it a rod for your own back.Socrates said:The Tories are blaming this rise on immigration on EU migration they can't do anything about, but non-EU migration is up 20k.
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goingdyedwoolie said:
sFrankBooth said:
I'd be surprised if Lab + LD don't have a majority of seats. Unless Ukip can take some seats off Labour which still looks tricky.dyedwoolie said:Essex and Kent purple to hold the balance of power?
Not if Labour - can't be trusted with your health, your money, the safety of your kids or the security of your borders, takes hold. That's the line from here on in. Tack soft right and portray Labour as hard left with dodgy associates.
Come clean on the clandestine United and Cecil Club.Who are they?
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Our elected representatives have the right to reform the balance of power within the system.corporeal said:
When did any generation last get a say on the House of Lords?Charles said:
Fine. Vote for out.Yorkcity said:
That is what I guess most UKIP supporters believe, that Cameron heart is not aboutIOS said:When is the election being held?
If I were UKIP I would call it just before the Tory party conference. Make Camerons announcement about campaigning against the EU seem very very hollow.
leaving the EU, whatever the mythical red lines will be.
He will eventually say as Wilson did, he has been successful, so we should all bow down to
him, and with a serious consideration of what he has achieved vote yes.
Hollow be thy name.
A Cameron withdrawal method ,will not satisfy the parts of a kipper.
My generation have never got a say on our membership of the EU.
Thank you for preventing that for, at minimum, another 10 years. That means I'll have lived all my life with an increasing democratic deficit.
They don't have the right to give that power to entities outside the system without authorisation.0 -
Neil Hamilton going for Boston and Skegness.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/08/28/neil-hamilton-ukip-boston-mark-simmonds_n_5729292.html?utm_hp_ref=tw0 -
Yep - very like that.
And several directors that were infamous for their bullying of muggles.
I spent a lot of my time deflecting incoming fire aimed at some poor sod. I get the type, and know how to deal with them without twisting their tails. We both know that we're playing a game with each other, but that's just another level of enormous private joke.
TBH, it's quite threatening/inner circle stuff, if you're on the outside.
I know I hate it when I'm outside the tent!
That's why the personal charisma element is so crucial to their success. Being a handful is only worth it organisationally if you have enough allies, and real friends in the right places to have your back.
Those who fall to Earth spectacularly fail to do this and nailed by their own rivals/staff.
Wotcha Miss P.,
Exactly. There's a certain charisma that accompanies much of this too. You won't find a successful cult leader who doesn't have NPD. They have some great qualities, and not just the cliches that tend to be bandied about.
The ones I've known and had as good friends are extremely loyal, will protect you in extremis and superbly daring/funny company. They get things done. They tend to have very few friends as a lot of the behaviour is about protecting themselves emotionally/not feeling good enough [perfection is the yardstick] - but once you're inside the tent, it gives you a very special status...you're no longer a muggle, but one of them.
Some folk find them really high maintenance or intimidating/cruel - I like them, they keep you on your toes all the time. Being on the wrong end of one is painful to watch, it's like Christians being fed to lions.
Didn't you get on well with a recent generation of Chief Constables? A lot of them matched your description to a T. The problem was they weren't actually good at leading, bullying and shouting, yes, but leading, no. They mostly left their respective forces and policing generally in a far worse state than they found them.
Its very easy to tell a good leader, their people want to follow them. Not just the cronies and those hoping for promotion but all their people. I used to work on a management development course for people who has just been promoted to strategic level. Day 1 and the opening question was, "OK you have now become strategic leaders in your organisation. Why should anyone follow you?" Amazingly enough very few people had ever thought about it. I even had one ACPO officer say, and I kid you not, "Because I am an Assistant Chief Constable".
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