politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Darling versus Salmond – the 2nd leg: Live discussion with
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Cameron is/was very wise to keep out if it. This is matter for Scots, and Salmond would have all the cards of us vs them.Flightpath said:
Just who is this debate between?HYUFD said:This debate again showing why Cameron was wise to duck out, he could never have argued the leftwing case on spending and the NHS unlike Darling and Scotland is a slightly more left of centre nation than England
Salmond is leader of the SNP and putative PM of an independent Scotland. Just who do the electorate have to judge him in opposition to? Daling is leader of a coalition - well everybody other than the SNP really - there is no notion of him being a political alternative to Salmond.
So this is just a big advert for Salmond and if there is no movent or even worse (or better) a movement away from him then its a very bad advert for him. This 'debate' is not a real confrontation between alternative leaders. As with every other pig in a poke that Salmond is offering this is all unknown.0 -
Well, if that's the best two of their so-called leaders can do, then God help Scotland.
They were thoroughly upstaged by the venue. What a magnificent place.0 -
No sign as yet of tonight's YouGov/Sun poll ..... maybe they had the bank holiday off.0
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So bored with the whole independence issue. I'd vote yes just to put it to sleep.0
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The twitter worm shows Salmond, the Guardian worm shows it 50/50.
twitter.com/david_taylor/status/504010410413260800/photo/1
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2014/aug/25/salmond-v-darling-scottish-independence-debate-on-the-bbc-live-coverage0 -
If Scotland does vote No Darling should still get plenty of honours in response. Fronting the unmanageable and divided No side, facing a Yes side of mostly singular purpose and strategy, was always going to be a stinker of a job.
How did he even get picked for it in the first place?0 -
Yes, but having won the away leg three nil, a one nil loss in the return still keeps him up in the big league after the two legged play off.DavidL said:As a dedicated no supporter I would have to accept that Salmond edged that. Darling tried to do the same again. It didn't work. And he made mistakes an advocate should not make.
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Smarmeron Well so what, it is residents of a nation who comprise it, not where they were born eg native born Scots living in England cannot vote in the referendum, but those living in Scotland born in England can.0
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I hope you are right.welshowl said:
Yes, but having won the away leg three nil, a one nil loss in the return still keeps him up in the big league after the two legged play off.DavidL said:As a dedicated no supporter I would have to accept that Salmond edged that. Darling tried to do the same again. It didn't work. And he made mistakes an advocate should not make.
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In a way it could have been quite amusing.Slackbladder said:
Cameron is/was very wise to keep out if it. This is matter for Scots, and Salmond would have all the cards of us vs them.Flightpath said:
Just who is this debate between?HYUFD said:This debate again showing why Cameron was wise to duck out, he could never have argued the leftwing case on spending and the NHS unlike Darling and Scotland is a slightly more left of centre nation than England
Salmond is leader of the SNP and putative PM of an independent Scotland. Just who do the electorate have to judge him in opposition to? Daling is leader of a coalition - well everybody other than the SNP really - there is no notion of him being a political alternative to Salmond.
So this is just a big advert for Salmond and if there is no movent or even worse (or better) a movement away from him then its a very bad advert for him. This 'debate' is not a real confrontation between alternative leaders. As with every other pig in a poke that Salmond is offering this is all unknown.
"This is a matter for the PM of the UK, he must debate with Scotland about this! I insist upon it"
"Ok, here's what I think"
"How dare this english Tory try to involve himself in Scottish affairs!"
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Loved the Lib Dem on BBC News "I've voted Lib Dem for 44 years, and have never gotten the government I voted for, that's democracy!"0
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Sky News- Debate exit poll expected soon.0
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Is there an instant poll?0
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I cannot quite believe there's still 3 weeks left, gods preserve us.Monksfield said:So bored with the whole independence issue. I'd vote yes just to put it to sleep.
I hope people are saving their energy for the bitterness of the negotiations on Scottish independence. That'll be even less civil I imagine.0 -
Salmond (slightly) won the debate, but only with rhetoric and fantasy.
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Yay - Social media analyst going for Harry Cole!!0
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Well exactly, Salmond would have made mincemeat of him. Not because Cameron is a bad or poor debater, but the nature of the argument would have given any Scot a huge advantage.kle4 said:
In a way it could have been quite amusing.Slackbladder said:
Cameron is/was very wise to keep out if it. This is matter for Scots, and Salmond would have all the cards of us vs them.Flightpath said:
Just who is this debate between?HYUFD said:This debate again showing why Cameron was wise to duck out, he could never have argued the leftwing case on spending and the NHS unlike Darling and Scotland is a slightly more left of centre nation than England
Salmond is leader of the SNP and putative PM of an independent Scotland. Just who do the electorate have to judge him in opposition to? Daling is leader of a coalition - well everybody other than the SNP really - there is no notion of him being a political alternative to Salmond.
So this is just a big advert for Salmond and if there is no movent or even worse (or better) a movement away from him then its a very bad advert for him. This 'debate' is not a real confrontation between alternative leaders. As with every other pig in a poke that Salmond is offering this is all unknown.
"This is a matter for the PM of the UK, he must debate with Scotland about this! I insist upon it"
"Ok, here's what I think"
"How dare this english Tory try to involve himself in Scottish affairs!"0 -
Think I recall ComRes selected the audience.
Yes is certainly not in the BBC's interests - Yes could very well lead to a cut in BBC income.0 -
That said, in the unlikely scenario that yes does win, Cameron is totally finished. He'll be the Prime Minister who lost the Union whilst appearing to disassociate himself from the whole issue, and the press will turn on him like a pack of sharks.0
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Speedy A draw or slight edge to Salmond, but Salmond needed a crushing victory to significantly move the polls in this last debate, and he did not get it0
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Danny Alexander believes Darling won the debate. I recall he said that Clegg won against Farage.0
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"It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest."Smarmeron said:@Omnium
The "free market" ideology is insane,. The "market" has no conscience, it is driven by money.
( Communism suffers the same diagnosis, but with different causes)0 -
Yay! Danny taking one for the team again!
Hud that Scottish viewers!!0 -
Even though I don't hold him responsible either for the event occurring or that outcome, should it happen, I certainly will. How can he campaign as a strong leader following such an outcome? It might be unfair to lay it at his door given I say I wouldn't blame him for it exactly, but as you say, he will be the PM who lost the Union (even if Ed M will be the last PM of the UK), that will be his epithet from now on.Monksfield said:That said, in the unlikely scenario that yes does win, Cameron is totally finished. He'll be the Prime Minister who lost the Union whilst appearing to disassociate himself from the whole issue, and the press will turn on him like a pack of sharks.
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Kudos to John Terry paying tribute to Richard Attenborough for his contribution to Chelsea FC as its president0
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Kevin McKenna @KevinMcKenna63 1mHYUFD said:Speedy A draw or slight edge to Salmond, but Salmond needed a crushing victory to significantly move the polls in this last debate, and he did not get it
ICM poll for The Guardian says Salmond 'easily won debate'0 -
Clegg won GE2010 for us!!!old_labour said:Danny Alexander believes Darling won the debate. I recall he said that Clegg won against Farage.
GBTGMOU
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Well, that was unedifying. Only, if I ever form a street gang I'll invite Salmond to join.
I do hate the feeling after a confrontation when you think of efficient rejoinders you should have used.0 -
He got it.HYUFD said:Speedy A draw or slight edge to Salmond, but Salmond needed a crushing victory to significantly move the polls in this last debate, and he did not get it
#BritainElects @britainelects 29s
#ScotDecides Guardian/ICM poll winner:
SALMOND - 71%
DARLING - 29%0 -
BREAKING: Guardian/ICM poll Salmond – 71% Darling – 29% Sample 500+0
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I know they have to in these situations, just as Salmond's people lauded his victory last time, for the look if the thing (how would it look for a party member to suggest their guy had done badly?), but really why do they bother. Just hand round a stock statement before hand and get an early night.old_labour said:Danny Alexander believes Darling won the debate. I recall he said that Clegg won against Farage.
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Oops,
I meant something along the lines of-
ThisGmoo
Blame the Libraries!! Blame the Manic Street Preachers!!0 -
I would be astonished if the debate changed many undecided minds. I suspect there are far fewer than these voters than the polls lead us to believe.0
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Salmond finally got his crushing debate victory and based on the currency issue, now lets see the impact on the polls.0
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Live post debate discussion on Sky but not on the BBC? (Though there's a review on News24 at half past).0
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@Socrates
Can money buy "conscience"? (it can buy a lot of lack of it though) A civil conscience is what "government" is supposed to be for, along with sensible laws to keep it in balance.
"A prince wishes to govern, but the people only wish to be governed wisely" (probably paraphrased from "The Prince")0 -
I agree, always think some people like to say that have an open mind on matters when they actually dont, and already have an idea of how they go.SouthamObserver said:I would be astonished if the debate changed many undecided minds. I suspect there are far fewer than these voters than the polls lead us to believe.
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Think I am. Though I accept it's way easier for me to say than you. It's not my rear end on the line, not my savings value, not my pension, not my job. You have my sympathy as Salmond gives me the impression of saying anything, absolutely anything, no matter how snake oil - ish, to get a yes and sort it from there. A man for whom I have precious little regard I'm afraid. I'd have far more respect if he said "let's go for it, there's many many unknowns, we might well be a bit poorer for a bit but long term we'll be about where we are", but he's not, it's just " free tartan unicorns funded from the endless magic money pump, and anyway the English will just go along with anything we want".DavidL said:
I hope you are right.welshowl said:
Yes, but having won the away leg three nil, a one nil loss in the return still keeps him up in the big league after the two legged play off.DavidL said:As a dedicated no supporter I would have to accept that Salmond edged that. Darling tried to do the same again. It didn't work. And he made mistakes an advocate should not make.
Good luck. I'm sure you'll be ok in the end.
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You need to get out more. I know many Tories and not one of them is an old Etonian. Labour never was and never will be a one nation party. They hate anyone who aspires to better their lot independent of government hand outs.hucks67 said:
Correct. I would predict that if the Tories got in again, there would be moves from other parts of the UK to split. I just don't think that the Tories as a party are truly one nation, as most of their support is from English shires. As someone else commented, the Tories need to change, so they people throughout the country feel that they represent them. Not a load of old Etonians.SouthamObserver said:What a dreadful debate this is. It just looks to me like the Union has reached its natural end. We all feel huge frustration with the Westminster system. The Scots have a chance to do something about it. That's what this is all about.
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I agree with that. This is the dialogue of the deaf in Scotland with almost everyone who is going to vote having already made up their mind.SouthamObserver said:I would be astonished if the debate changed many undecided minds. I suspect there are far fewer than these voters than the polls lead us to believe.
Next week I may be attending a conference on arbitration. A segment is a debate on how it may be affected by independence. There is no escape at the moment. 19th September cannot come soon enough.0 -
Indeed .... l'esprit de l'escalierToms said:Well, that was unedifying. Only, if I ever form a street gang I'll invite Salmond to join.
I do hate the feeling after a confrontation when you think of efficient rejoinders you should have used.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L'esprit_de_l'escalier0 -
I thought the Q range was really limited. Frustrating.kle4 said:
Worse than I thought. Of course, Yes supporters, any polling last time suggesting Darling won was irrelevant, where this is a barnstorming sign that Yes will win.Carola said:BREAKING: Guardian/ICM poll Salmond – 71% Darling – 29% Sample 500+
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I find it astonishing that only 6 years ago the financial crash was viewed to have scuppered any serious prospect of Scottish Independence, and yet as far as my limited observance of the debate can tell the question of an independent Scotland's resilience (potentially outside of the EU and outside of the protection offered by the Bank of England) to significant financial shocks has hardly featured.0
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And No supporters who claimed last time was a crushing Darling victory will claim this was just a blip that won't change minds, or summat.kle4 said:
Worse than I thought. Of course, Yes supporters, any polling last time suggesting Darling won was irrelevant, where this is a barnstorming sign that Yes will win.Carola said:BREAKING: Guardian/ICM poll Salmond – 71% Darling – 29% Sample 500+
Welcome to politics!0 -
I was surprised that more wasn't made in the debate by the NO campaign that Scotland might have to adopt the Euro should they become independent. As others have said all recent members have had to adopt the Euro and I would have pushed that point as the NO "Plan B" because I can't imagine many people would want that nowadays!0
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Maybe I am stupid, but is it completely impossible for anyone to say that they are proud of Scotland and the UK? We are one country, made up four great components. It is not mutually exclusive in identity terms, but people seemed unsure of saying we are one country. I am English and British and proud of both.0
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Remember if you will Romney was seen to have won one of the presidential debstes0
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71%!%?
It's going to be like that film called idiocracy, maybe...
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/0 -
Salmond 71% Darling 29%
ICM Guardian poll0 -
Oh, hardly a groundbreaking opinion I know - but we must remind each other of the hypocrisy each time, lest we forget. Partisans making these arguments even if they argued the opposite last time are either deceitful or pretty stupid, and shouldn't get away with it.Hugh said:
And No supporters who claimed last time was a crushing Darling victory will claim this was just a blip that won't change minds, or summat.kle4 said:
Worse than I thought. Of course, Yes supporters, any polling last time suggesting Darling won was irrelevant, where this is a barnstorming sign that Yes will win.Carola said:BREAKING: Guardian/ICM poll Salmond – 71% Darling – 29% Sample 500+
Welcome to politics!
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We are just seeing silly - well, downright ineffectual - propagandising from hucks.perdix said:
You need to get out more. I know many Tories and not one of them is an old Etonian. Labour never was and never will be a one nation party. They hate anyone who aspires to better their lot independent of government hand outs.hucks67 said:
Correct. I would predict that if the Tories got in again, there would be moves from other parts of the UK to split. I just don't think that the Tories as a party are truly one nation, as most of their support is from English shires. As someone else commented, the Tories need to change, so they people throughout the country feel that they represent them. Not a load of old Etonians.SouthamObserver said:What a dreadful debate this is. It just looks to me like the Union has reached its natural end. We all feel huge frustration with the Westminster system. The Scots have a chance to do something about it. That's what this is all about.
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You cant adopt the Euro without running your own currency first.Ally_B said:I was surprised that more wasn't made in the debate by the NO campaign that Scotland might have to adopt the Euro should they become independent. As others have said all recent members have had to adopt the Euro and I would have pushed that point as the NO "Plan B" because I can't imagine many people would want that nowadays!
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Yes.JamesM said:Maybe I am stupid, but is it completely impossible for anyone to say that they are proud of Scotland and the UK? We are one country, made up four great components. It is not mutually exclusive in identity terms, but people seemed unsure of saying we are one country. I am English and British and proud of both.
Cybernats said so.
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Darling was very tongue tied while Salmond was fluent. On that basis Salmond certainly won.0
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Not just the Tories, but the Cameroons! After Howard's terrible authoritarianism on ID cards and other matters, I dearly wanted a liberal conservative government. But outside that one issue, Cameron has proven to be anything but a liberal in office. He hasn't just kept Labour's big brother state in power, he's actually extended it. Out of office they also promised major action on immigration, but have fundamentally failed to do what's necessary to return us to sensible levels. And the party's fundamental distortions and lies on the EU (e.g. "we vetoed the EU deal, we cut the budget" etc), combined with teaming up with the Guardian to smear the genuine eurosceptics, has just been the final straw.hucks67 said:
I thought at one time you were a strong supporter of the Tories or came across to me that way.Socrates said:@hucks67
I've come to the view that the Tories are busted as a brand. The sensible long term strategy for the Right is for UKIP and the Tories to merge, and thus straddle the working class-middle class divide. Unfortunately the Tories have been stupidly short-sighted in trying to smear their potential allies.
The problem with the Tories is that many of the current MP's don't represent most of the people around the country. They are seen as out of touch rich folk, who want a career in politics to further their business interests. You could argue the same about some Labour MP's.0 -
Bullshit.JBriskin said:
Yes.JamesM said:Maybe I am stupid, but is it completely impossible for anyone to say that they are proud of Scotland and the UK? We are one country, made up four great components. It is not mutually exclusive in identity terms, but people seemed unsure of saying we are one country. I am English and British and proud of both.
Cybernats said so.0 -
What fraction of the electorate do you think understands such things? In my experience most people are already horribly confused about the basic facts, and the order of events, of the financial crisis. People have short and poor memories.alex said:I find it astonishing that only 6 years ago the financial crash was viewed to have scuppered any serious prospect of Scottish Independence, and yet as far as my limited observance of the debate can tell the question of an independent Scotland's resilience (potentially outside of the EU and outside of the protection offered by the Bank of England) to significant financial shocks has hardly featured.
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OH YEAH?Hugh said:
Bullshit.JBriskin said:
Yes.JamesM said:Maybe I am stupid, but is it completely impossible for anyone to say that they are proud of Scotland and the UK? We are one country, made up four great components. It is not mutually exclusive in identity terms, but people seemed unsure of saying we are one country. I am English and British and proud of both.
Cybernats said so.
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Don't think women, in particular, will be very impressed with the shouty politician show.0
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I note Sky news have rightly banned me from the girl with glasses.
It was only going to be one!0 -
Well said. I wasn't a Tory, but wanted a liberal conservative government, and too often they've been incompetent or outright in opposition to what I wanted of them.Socrates said:
Not just the Tories, but the Cameroons! After Howard's terrible authoritarianism on ID cards and other matters, I dearly wanted a liberal conservative government. But outside that one issue, Cameron has proven to be anything but a liberal in office. He hasn't just kept Labour's big brother state in power, he's actually extended it. .hucks67 said:
I thought at one time you were a strong supporter of the Tories or came across to me that way.Socrates said:@hucks67
I've come to the view that the Tories are busted as a brand. The sensible long term strategy for the Right is for UKIP and the Tories to merge, and thus straddle the working class-middle class divide. Unfortunately the Tories have been stupidly short-sighted in trying to smear their potential allies.
The problem with the Tories is that many of the current MP's don't represent most of the people around the country. They are seen as out of touch rich folk, who want a career in politics to further their business interests. You could argue the same about some Labour MP's.
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Clearly thats why he was debating Salmond tonight instead of Darling.Monksfield said:That said, in the unlikely scenario that yes does win, Cameron is totally finished. He'll be the Prime Minister who lost the Union whilst appearing to disassociate himself from the whole issue, and the press will turn on him like a pack of sharks.
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I suspect the big winners tonight were actually the Conservatives. Darling said the coalition had supported spending on health and even defended the coalitions welfare policies.
It will also have reminded the public what a shower the last Labour government were.
As for the ref vote Betfair has hardly moved....0 -
You lookin at my pint, PAL?!JBriskin said:
OH YEAH?Hugh said:
Bullshit.JBriskin said:
Yes.JamesM said:Maybe I am stupid, but is it completely impossible for anyone to say that they are proud of Scotland and the UK? We are one country, made up four great components. It is not mutually exclusive in identity terms, but people seemed unsure of saying we are one country. I am English and British and proud of both.
Cybernats said so.0 -
No, it can not. Of course we need laws to make up for market failures. Adam Smith openly called for many such laws in the Wealth of Nations. That didn't mean he didn't have a free market philosophy. A free market philosophy doesn't mean there shouldn't be any government, just that in most places a free market works better and more efficiently than central planning.Smarmeron said:@Socrates
Can money buy "conscience"? (it can buy a lot of lack of it though) A civil conscience is what "government" is supposed to be for, along with sensible laws to keep it in balance.
"A prince wishes to govern, but the people only wish to be governed wisely" (probably paraphrased from "The Prince")0 -
Well two things are certain for now (until the new indyref polls):
One, the currency issue is dead.
Two, Darling's political career won't make a comeback.0 -
I suspect the big winners tonight were actually the Conservatives.
Well I never0 -
What tonight does, is invigorate the yes team out on the doorsteps.
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They were already well motivated, but a clear win makes their job simpler if challenged.Eh_ehm_a_eh said:What tonight does, is invigorate the yes team out on the doorsteps.
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Yes thats right, the future of your country from which ever way you look at it. Boring. Yes lets not bother with any discussiuon or thought - just get it over, don't think dont blink just vote.Monksfield said:So bored with the whole independence issue. I'd vote yes just to put it to sleep.
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Let's see. Say you had a free market in, say, banking.Socrates said:
No, it can not. Of course we need laws to make up for market failures. Adam Smith openly called for many such laws in the Wealth of Nations. That didn't mean he didn't have a free market philosophy. A free market philosophy doesn't mean there shouldn't be any government, just that in most places a free market works better and more efficiently than central planning.Smarmeron said:@Socrates
Can money buy "conscience"? (it can buy a lot of lack of it though) A civil conscience is what "government" is supposed to be for, along with sensible laws to keep it in balance.
"A prince wishes to govern, but the people only wish to be governed wisely" (probably paraphrased from "The Prince")
And a centrally planned State that collected, oh, taxes.
Let's pick a year at random for our experiment, say, 2008...?0 -
Speedy Post debate poll by ICM last time had Darling winning by 60%+ but made little difference on post debate polls, doubt this will make much difference either, over 2 debates a 1-1 drawer0
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Smarmeron said:
@glw
Yes, a lot of Tories blame it all on G.Brown, when anyone rational knows he couldn't have caused the world economy to crash .
Politics is a funny old world, say something loudly and with enough conviction, and people will believe it.
Good old Labour supporters, when everything was apparently well it was all down to Brown, as soon as it went tits up it was nothing to do with them. They make the SNP look honest.0 -
I suppose James Kelly will say we can't take any notice of this poll showing victory for Salmond because it's just one poll, and it shouldn't influence the mood of the campaign?0
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With pre debate expectations of 2 crushing Salmond victories, had you offered No a 1-1 drawer they would have bitten your hand off!0
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"Das Gesetz ändert sich, das Gewissen nicht!" - Sophie Scholl.Smarmeron said:@Socrates
Can money buy "conscience"? (it can buy a lot of lack of it though) A civil conscience is what "government" is supposed to be for, along with sensible laws to keep it in balance.
"A prince wishes to govern, but the people only wish to be governed wisely" (probably paraphrased from "The Prince")0 -
I agree - I suppose what I am trying to say is that what alternative government is there to judge Salmond against? NO is not a government in waiting and is not making alternative policy promises like Salmond is (costed or otherwise).Slackbladder said:
Cameron is/was very wise to keep out if it. This is matter for Scots, and Salmond would have all the cards of us vs them.Flightpath said:
Just who is this debate between?HYUFD said:This debate again showing why Cameron was wise to duck out, he could never have argued the leftwing case on spending and the NHS unlike Darling and Scotland is a slightly more left of centre nation than England
Salmond is leader of the SNP and putative PM of an independent Scotland. Just who do the electorate have to judge him in opposition to? Daling is leader of a coalition - well everybody other than the SNP really - there is no notion of him being a political alternative to Salmond.
So this is just a big advert for Salmond and if there is no movent or even worse (or better) a movement away from him then its a very bad advert for him. This 'debate' is not a real confrontation between alternative leaders. As with every other pig in a poke that Salmond is offering this is all unknown.-1 -
If Cameron and Osborne are calling it in spades then how is hollande calling it. How is the rest of the eurozone calling it? In hearts clubs diamonds and spades.Smarmeron said:@glw
I am not sure about Labour supporters, but Blair and Brown made some really stupid decisions. Unfortunately Cameron and Osborne were calling for more of the same, in "spades"
Look too Hayak if you want a culprit.
In comparison with them and more, Cameron and Osborne, and us, are winmning hands down.
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Hmm..
Proportionally, women were much more likely to say that Alex Salmond won the debate (77%) than men (63%). Overall, with don’t knows excluded, 71% of all respondents said Salmond won.0 -
Alex Salmond easily won on who was most appealing.
Who was the more appealing personality? (don’t knows included)
(Figures for the last debate in brackets)
Salmond: 54% (47%)
Darling: 32% (39%)
Don’t knows: 14% (14)
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2014/aug/25/salmond-v-darling-scottish-independence-debate-on-the-bbc-live-coverage0 -
I said earlier that Yes had the energy, positivity and momentum.
This will charge that even more.
But they need those damn polls to start moving, there's a big wall of "meh, nah" out there...
Interesting few weeks.0 -
The big story of the night:
Austrian party rues disappearance of 400 garden gnomes
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-289232340 -
And you have to join the EU first. I mean other EU countries are going to be really pleased at having another British, English speaking country. Perhaps we should give independence to Wales and Northern Ireland as well, then we would have 5 English speaking British Isles countries in the EU. This will please the rest no end.Slackbladder said:
You cant adopt the Euro without running your own currency first.Ally_B said:I was surprised that more wasn't made in the debate by the NO campaign that Scotland might have to adopt the Euro should they become independent. As others have said all recent members have had to adopt the Euro and I would have pushed that point as the NO "Plan B" because I can't imagine many people would want that nowadays!
iScotland would need a sound independent currency and then have to be accepted into the EU on terms it in turn found acceptable, one term being membership of Schengen.
I suspect these fundamentals are not being lost on the Scottish electorate.
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Iirc that was down to decided voters supporting their own, but undecideds split for Salmond.HYUFD said:Speedy Post debate poll by ICM last time had Darling winning by 60%+ but made little difference on post debate polls, doubt this will make much difference either, over 2 debates a 1-1 drawer
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