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Could Reform’s Tice surprise us on Thursday? – politicalbetting.com

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 21,801
    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    When does the mask mandate in shops *supposed to start* ?

    4am tomorrow. Expect yet more abuse and attacks on shop workers as we had last time.
    "Piers Corbyn has released an anti-mask song that states ‘wearing a mask is like trying to keep a fart in your trousers’. This is where we are, folks."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/piers-corbyn-mask-song-tube-b1966057.html
    If people are farting in public, I would prefer that out of politeness that they wear underpants and trousers.
    Biohazard Level 5 suits would be ideal....
  • AlistairM said:

    NEW: Sweden reports first confirmed case of new coronavirus variant

    It was detected too late in SA. Big possibility it actually started somewhere else not sequencing. It is now everywhere. No chance of containing it. Just have to see how it now pans out.
    I am starting to wonder....one of the cases in the UK was from over 2 weeks ago.
    It would be good news if (a) it is now everywhere and (b) no-one has died
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 33,263
    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    UK COVID Summary

    - Cases have stopped rising nationally - pretty much. The cases among the older part of the population is still falling.
    - Admissions are still falling. In the England data this is largely in the 64-85 group.
    - Deaths are still falling.

    Still riding the exit Delta wave quite nicely but will Omicron knock us off the board and force us to remount?
    Difficult to say just yet, we need to know whether Omicron can cause severe disease in vaccinated and recovered patients with high immunity to Delta. If it does then we're all pretty much fucked, if it doesn't then it's really no change.
    Yes, fingers crossed it's nearer to 'as we were' than 'oh no, Covid rides again'.

    I found this a striking sentence from the BBC write up of Omicron:

    "This level of mutation has most likely come from a single patient who was unable to beat the virus."
    Yes, it's the same as Alpha and Delta, an immunocompromised person who was kept on life support. The subject came up yesterday, the one doctor at lunch was very much unable to resolve the ethical quandary of turning off the life support machines for the greater good while the scientists and academics were all pretty clear that life support shouldn't be available to COVID patients unable to defeat the virus in one or two attempts as it allows for significant viral evolution and may set the whole world back and cause countless deaths. It is the reason doctors make for poor public health officials, they can't see beyond the single patient, as harsh as that sounds.
    That's quite a thought - a single dying person cooking up inside them a new malign variant. And, yes, an interesting ethical issue. There are quite a few of those thrown up by Covid.
    Indeed, and think about this - the person in whom Omicron originated may not have been eligible for a vaccine anyway, a lot of people who are severely immunocompromised aren't. So the whole narrative of this being caused by vaccine inequity may not even apply in this case. I'm not saying we shouldn't be doing our part to fix vaccine inequity, we should, but in the most serious mutation cases it's been the same class of patients making multiple attempts to defeat the virus which gives the virus a lot of opportunities to evolve and evade multiple standard natural immune responses.

    As you say, quite an interesting ethical issue.
  • kinabalu said:

    Not sure that I get the flap about flags. There is a difference between hoisting the England flag on the lawn every day and doing nazi salutes to having one because you identify with the nation / region. I've seen people with England / Scotland / Yorkshire / Kernow flags on their house or in their garden and it doesn't bother me that much.

    Anyway, the classy way to fly a flag is to make sure that people get the message you want to communicate. The Scotland flag design that covers the giant YES letters in Alex Salmond's garden for example...

    I agree. Not a big deal and each to his own.

    But back to where this started, Thornberry and the notorious tweet, that was a property on a normal street completely festooned with the St George. There was more flag than house. And not an international football tournament in sight.

    There is no way imo that most people wouldn't look at that and quite reasonably think "oh dear oh dear, numbskull little englander alert!"

    Now that could be unfair and be disproved on personal acquaintance. But still, c'mon.
    The problem we have is that national shame in England means that the St George's flag (and to a lesser extent the Union flag) have been hijacked by fascists. Why do we think negatively about someone with their national flag? Because usually its racist or its En-ger-land morons.

    Can't people take back control of the flag from knuckledraggers? Do other countries have this "oh no, not the flag" reaction?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 28,661
    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    Officials from the Canadian province of Ontario confirmed on Sunday evening that two new cases of the Omicron coronavirus variant have been detected there.

    The two men had recently travelled from Nigeria to Montreal, said Dr Kieran Moore, Ontario's chief medical officer of health.

    ---

    I am still fascinated by the incredible low rates of COVID in Nigeria. Even if testing / detection is very poor, at no point have they had a rush on the hospitals.

    Our Nigerian doctors report a lot of deaths in their extended families. I wouldn't trust the official stats.
    Well no I don't. Their reported levels make Russia look honest. But even with dodgy stats, at some point, everybody who gets hit hard gets the hospital rush on and you can't keep that quiet now everybody has a camera phone. AFAIK we have never seen that from Nigeria, where as basically every other country that has got hit hard has had that happen.
    Third world hospitals cost money. even getting to them is beyond the means of the average Nigerian, I would think. No NHS ambulances. so i don't think we can draw conclusions like that.
    We saw it in India....you start to get 1000s of people at the side of the road, chaos as relatives try to get oxygen, etc. You will see it if you get a meltdown. Nigeria is what 200-250 million people, so it isn't like so tiny population which yes you could probably say you never saw it is as only a few people live in mostly remote locations. There are also huge numbers of Nigerians living in the West, again if all their families were been wiped out left, right and centre, we would hear. Again, we heard that from India, even the rural areas.
    India ain't Africa. I don't know Nigeria, but in most of the bits of Africa I have been to the chances of getting hold of oxygen, or anything else, I would guess were so remote that you wouldn't even think of bothering to try.
    One of our pharmacists got stuck for months in Lilongwe, Malawi earlier in the year. She had it bad, and still has some damage on imaging, but lost her father and a few others. There was quite a scramble for oxygen cylinders, but without domestic resupply, it was all gone in days. She did say that a month later it seemed to disappear. Covid is like that in its waves.

    Malawi pisses me off, or rather the Christian missionaries there do. If they built half the number of new hospitals they do churches they'd have a first world health service.
    Malawi is a desperately poor country, albeit a beautiful and mostly peaceful one. Religion is a great solace too them, and Malawian church services are quite something.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 12,212
    Selebian said:

    Foxy said:

    I've watched Dr Rosena. Started well, went on a bit and drifted off topic.

    Not brilliant, but no car crash either. And certainly not "shrill".


    And I loved the subliminal message when she touched her chest when referring to the NHS: "That's me, that is!"

    Being described as "shrill" and told to watch her tone do have rather a whiff of misogyny about.
    Don't think this is directed at me, but when I used 'tone' I wasn't referring to her voice, but to the content. The correct tone in my opinion would be that this is a potentially serious variant that was always possible. Now, what do we know and what are we going to do about it? (And, possibly, this is what we'd do about it if we were in charged and this is how it's better than what you're doing, so please follow our way now).

    She seemed to want to get into a blame game over Omicron arising at all, which seemed misguided given it didn't even arise here. Javid was very easily able to bat that away in his response. I thought she struck the wrong tone by being too confrontational.
    Yep – agreed. And I write that as a longtime and vocal fan of Rosena.
  • eek said:

    Redfield Wilton

    Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s net approval rating stands at -12%, a four-point decrease since last week. This week’s poll finds 48% disapproving (up 4%) of his overall job performance, against 36% approving (no change).

    Keir Starmer’s net approval rating has decreased by five points in the past week, now standing at -10%. 39% disapprove of Keir Starmer’s job performance (up 6%), while 29% approve (up 1%). Meanwhile, 30% neither approve nor disapprove of Starmer’s job performance (down 3%).

    Between Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer, 41% say they think Boris Johnson would be a better Prime Minister for the United Kingdom at this moment than Keir Starmer, the same result as in last week’s poll. Conversely, 35% think Keir Starmer would be the better Prime Minister when compared to Boris Johnson (up 3%).

    More specifically, Boris Johnson continues to lead over Keir Starmer as being the one who best embodies the following descriptions: ‘stands up for the interests of the United Kingdom’ (42% to 35%), ‘can build a strong economy’ (42% to 34%), ‘can tackle the coronavirus pandemic’ (40% to 32%), and ‘can lead the UK out of the coronavirus pandemic’ (40% to 33%).

    Keir Starmer leads over Boris Johnson when it comes to best embodying the descriptions of ‘being in good physical and mental health’ (44% to 25%), ‘is willing to work with other parties when possible’ (41% to 30%), ‘represents change’ (41% to 31%), and ‘can work with foreign leaders’ (41% to 37%).

    Meanwhile, pluralities of respondents say they do not know which of the two ‘tells the truth’ (43%), ‘is creative’ (41%), or ‘prioritises the environment’ (39%).

    42% believe Boris can build a strong economy?

    Really?
    43% do not know which tells the truth
  • Rubbish numbers for BoJo in latest Redfield, Starmer will take over soon

    So rubbish Con are 2 points ahead of the useless nonentity you are fanboy for.
    As predicted, you will jump on this poll even though on average Labour are now ahead and indeed have been in all other polls released of late, as far as I am aware.

    BoJo's ratings way down, below Starmer's and losing its grip, the trend is clear, Labour up, Tories down.

    Resign and join the SWP as you'd be happier with the racists there
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 11,446
    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    Officials from the Canadian province of Ontario confirmed on Sunday evening that two new cases of the Omicron coronavirus variant have been detected there.

    The two men had recently travelled from Nigeria to Montreal, said Dr Kieran Moore, Ontario's chief medical officer of health.

    ---

    I am still fascinated by the incredible low rates of COVID in Nigeria. Even if testing / detection is very poor, at no point have they had a rush on the hospitals.

    Our Nigerian doctors report a lot of deaths in their extended families. I wouldn't trust the official stats.
    Well no I don't. Their reported levels make Russia look honest. But even with dodgy stats, at some point, everybody who gets hit hard gets the hospital rush on and you can't keep that quiet now everybody has a camera phone. AFAIK we have never seen that from Nigeria, where as basically every other country that has got hit hard has had that happen.
    Third world hospitals cost money. even getting to them is beyond the means of the average Nigerian, I would think. No NHS ambulances. so i don't think we can draw conclusions like that.
    We saw it in India....you start to get 1000s of people at the side of the road, chaos as relatives try to get oxygen, etc. You will see it if you get a meltdown. Nigeria is what 200-250 million people, so it isn't like so tiny population which yes you could probably say you never saw it is as only a few people live in mostly remote locations. There are also huge numbers of Nigerians living in the West, again if all their families were been wiped out left, right and centre, we would hear. Again, we heard that from India, even the rural areas.
    India ain't Africa. I don't know Nigeria, but in most of the bits of Africa I have been to the chances of getting hold of oxygen, or anything else, I would guess were so remote that you wouldn't even think of bothering to try.
    One of our pharmacists got stuck for months in Lilongwe, Malawi earlier in the year. She had it bad, and still has some damage on imaging, but lost her father and a few others. There was quite a scramble for oxygen cylinders, but without domestic resupply, it was all gone in days. She did say that a month later it seemed to disappear. Covid is like that in its waves.

    Malawi pisses me off, or rather the Christian missionaries there do. If they built half the number of new hospitals they do churches they'd have a first world health service.
    Malawi is a desperately poor country, albeit a beautiful and mostly peaceful one. Religion is a great solace too them, and Malawian church services are quite something.
    Cool, but more medicine would be quite a solace too.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,408
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    I've watched Dr Rosena. Started well, went on a bit and drifted off topic.

    Not brilliant, but no car crash either. And certainly not "shrill".

    And I loved the subliminal message when she touched her chest when referring to the NHS: "That's me, that is!"

    Yep, many say they love the NHS but she actually does.
    I'm not sure that 'loving the NHS' is massively helpful for giving it the massive boot up the arse it clearly needs.
    Boot up the arse? Is that new slang for 'increase in funding'?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,136
    edited November 2021

    AlistairM said:

    NEW: Sweden reports first confirmed case of new coronavirus variant

    It was detected too late in SA. Big possibility it actually started somewhere else not sequencing. It is now everywhere. No chance of containing it. Just have to see how it now pans out.
    I am starting to wonder....one of the cases in the UK was from over 2 weeks ago.
    It would be good news if (a) it is now everywhere and (b) no-one has died
    To go all SA GP, apparently all the cases in the Portuguese football team are asymptotic / mild :-) To have basically the whole team infected though, I don't think we have seen this before. Footballers have been great transmission vectors, but most of the time its been 1s and 2s that get it.
  • South Africa COVID update:

    - New cases: 2,273
    - Average: 2,255 (+280)
    - Positivity rate: 10.7% (+0.9)
    - In hospital: 2,328 (+96)
    - In ICU: 233 (+2)
    - New deaths: 25
    - Average: 34 (+2)

    That positivity rate is shooting up.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 18,982

    Pagin TSE....Steps axe their remaining tour dates due to further Covid cases

    Seen them many many times, so long as Slade cancel on me on the 19th of December.
    I presumed Noddy Holder didn't do winters in the UK....imagine where ever you go for a 6 weeks all you hear is that bloody song. At least until very recently, apparently he was still making £200k a year out of the royalties, so I presumed he buggered off somewhere warm with the money.
    He left the band ages ago.

    This is Slade sans Noddy Holder.
    How can you have Slade without Noddy?
    It's a sign of the times.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 15,800
    Foxy said:

    Selebian said:

    Foxy said:

    I've watched Dr Rosena. Started well, went on a bit and drifted off topic.

    Not brilliant, but no car crash either. And certainly not "shrill".


    And I loved the subliminal message when she touched her chest when referring to the NHS: "That's me, that is!"

    Being described as "shrill" and told to watch her tone do have rather a whiff of misogyny about.
    Don't think this is directed at me, but when I used 'tone' I wasn't referring to her voice, but to the content. The correct tone in my opinion would be that this is a potentially serious variant that was always possible. Now, what do we know and what are we going to do about it? (And, possibly, this is what we'd do about it if we were in charged and this is how it's better than what you're doing, so please follow our way now).

    She seemed to want to get into a blame game over Omicron arising at all, which seemed misguided given it didn't even arise here. Javid was very easily able to bat that away in his response. I thought she struck the wrong tone by being too confrontational.
    It was Javid who criticised her tone.
    Hancock did the same previously.

    She seems to get under the skin of the Tories.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 28,661
    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    Officials from the Canadian province of Ontario confirmed on Sunday evening that two new cases of the Omicron coronavirus variant have been detected there.

    The two men had recently travelled from Nigeria to Montreal, said Dr Kieran Moore, Ontario's chief medical officer of health.

    ---

    I am still fascinated by the incredible low rates of COVID in Nigeria. Even if testing / detection is very poor, at no point have they had a rush on the hospitals.

    Our Nigerian doctors report a lot of deaths in their extended families. I wouldn't trust the official stats.
    Well no I don't. Their reported levels make Russia look honest. But even with dodgy stats, at some point, everybody who gets hit hard gets the hospital rush on and you can't keep that quiet now everybody has a camera phone. AFAIK we have never seen that from Nigeria, where as basically every other country that has got hit hard has had that happen.
    Third world hospitals cost money. even getting to them is beyond the means of the average Nigerian, I would think. No NHS ambulances. so i don't think we can draw conclusions like that.
    We saw it in India....you start to get 1000s of people at the side of the road, chaos as relatives try to get oxygen, etc. You will see it if you get a meltdown. Nigeria is what 200-250 million people, so it isn't like so tiny population which yes you could probably say you never saw it is as only a few people live in mostly remote locations. There are also huge numbers of Nigerians living in the West, again if all their families were been wiped out left, right and centre, we would hear. Again, we heard that from India, even the rural areas.
    India ain't Africa. I don't know Nigeria, but in most of the bits of Africa I have been to the chances of getting hold of oxygen, or anything else, I would guess were so remote that you wouldn't even think of bothering to try.
    One of our pharmacists got stuck for months in Lilongwe, Malawi earlier in the year. She had it bad, and still has some damage on imaging, but lost her father and a few others. There was quite a scramble for oxygen cylinders, but without domestic resupply, it was all gone in days. She did say that a month later it seemed to disappear. Covid is like that in its waves.

    Malawi pisses me off, or rather the Christian missionaries there do. If they built half the number of new hospitals they do churches they'd have a first world health service.
    Malawi is a desperately poor country, albeit a beautiful and mostly peaceful one. Religion is a great solace too them, and Malawian church services are quite something.
    Cool, but more medicine would be quite a solace too.
    Yep. That is what I was doing there.
  • Selebian said:

    Foxy said:

    I've watched Dr Rosena. Started well, went on a bit and drifted off topic.

    Not brilliant, but no car crash either. And certainly not "shrill".


    And I loved the subliminal message when she touched her chest when referring to the NHS: "That's me, that is!"

    Being described as "shrill" and told to watch her tone do have rather a whiff of misogyny about.
    Don't think this is directed at me, but when I used 'tone' I wasn't referring to her voice, but to the content. The correct tone in my opinion would be that this is a potentially serious variant that was always possible. Now, what do we know and what are we going to do about it? (And, possibly, this is what we'd do about it if we were in charged and this is how it's better than what you're doing, so please follow our way now).

    She seemed to want to get into a blame game over Omicron arising at all, which seemed misguided given it didn't even arise here. Javid was very easily able to bat that away in his response. I thought she struck the wrong tone by being too confrontational.
    Starmer has got this right in the past - supportive of the general approach, but pointing out areas where "could do better". HM Loyal Opposition want the government to succeed in this national endeavour, but highlight areas where further improvements could be made. This is far more important than party politics, which comes across as petty point scoring, missing the bigger picture.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 69,284

    Pulpstar said:

    When does the mask mandate in shops *supposed to start* ?

    4am tomorrow. Expect yet more abuse and attacks on shop workers as we had last time.
    Thanks, I'll try & observe that. At heart I'm the sort of person who likes to try and follow the rules :)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,136
    edited November 2021

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    When does the mask mandate in shops *supposed to start* ?

    4am tomorrow. Expect yet more abuse and attacks on shop workers as we had last time.
    "Piers Corbyn has released an anti-mask song that states ‘wearing a mask is like trying to keep a fart in your trousers’. This is where we are, folks."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/piers-corbyn-mask-song-tube-b1966057.html
    If people are farting in public, I would prefer that out of politeness that they wear underpants and trousers.
    Biohazard Level 5 suits would be ideal....
    The man who walked through Bath in full hazmat gear clutching 27 toilet rolls

    https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/coronavirus-covid-19-toilet-rolls-3945503
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 33,263

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    When does the mask mandate in shops *supposed to start* ?

    4am tomorrow. Expect yet more abuse and attacks on shop workers as we had last time.
    "Piers Corbyn has released an anti-mask song that states ‘wearing a mask is like trying to keep a fart in your trousers’. This is where we are, folks."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/piers-corbyn-mask-song-tube-b1966057.html
    If people are farting in public, I would prefer that out of politeness that they wear underpants and trousers.
    Biohazard Level 5 suits would be ideal....
    The man who walked through Bath in full hazmat gear clutching 27 toilet rolls

    https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/coronavirus-covid-19-toilet-rolls-3945503
    @Dura_Ace?
  • Rubbish numbers for BoJo in latest Redfield, Starmer will take over soon

    So rubbish Con are 2 points ahead of the useless nonentity you are fanboy for.
    As predicted, you will jump on this poll even though on average Labour are now ahead and indeed have been in all other polls released of late, as far as I am aware.

    BoJo's ratings way down, below Starmer's and losing its grip, the trend is clear, Labour up, Tories down.

    Resign and join the SWP as you'd be happier with the racists there
    Of the last 20 polls since the 3rd November

    Conservative led in 10

    Labour in 7

    And 3 ties
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 12,212
    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    Not sure that I get the flap about flags. There is a difference between hoisting the England flag on the lawn every day and doing nazi salutes to having one because you identify with the nation / region. I've seen people with England / Scotland / Yorkshire / Kernow flags on their house or in their garden and it doesn't bother me that much.

    Anyway, the classy way to fly a flag is to make sure that people get the message you want to communicate. The Scotland flag design that covers the giant YES letters in Alex Salmond's garden for example...

    I agree. Not a big deal and each to his own.

    But back to where this started, Thornberry and the notorious tweet, that was a property on a normal street completely festooned with the St George. There was more flag than house. And not an international football tournament in sight.

    There is no way imo that most people wouldn't look at that and quite reasonably think "oh dear oh dear, numbskull little englander alert!"

    Now that could be unfair and be disproved on personal acquaintance. But still, c'mon.
    Is that right, there was no kickball going on? That is surprising. And a bit worrying. The EDL or someone equally horrible got into trouble for trying to adopt the quite innocent-in-context words of a Show of Hands song "I miss St George and the union jack/It's my flag too and I want it back" as their own.
    Yes, the said householder had his home festooned in November 2014 – it was nothing to do with a football tournament.
  • There is something very British about going out in a full hazmat suit to bulk buy bog roll.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 32,790

    Selebian said:

    Foxy said:

    I've watched Dr Rosena. Started well, went on a bit and drifted off topic.

    Not brilliant, but no car crash either. And certainly not "shrill".


    And I loved the subliminal message when she touched her chest when referring to the NHS: "That's me, that is!"

    Being described as "shrill" and told to watch her tone do have rather a whiff of misogyny about.
    Don't think this is directed at me, but when I used 'tone' I wasn't referring to her voice, but to the content. The correct tone in my opinion would be that this is a potentially serious variant that was always possible. Now, what do we know and what are we going to do about it? (And, possibly, this is what we'd do about it if we were in charged and this is how it's better than what you're doing, so please follow our way now).

    She seemed to want to get into a blame game over Omicron arising at all, which seemed misguided given it didn't even arise here. Javid was very easily able to bat that away in his response. I thought she struck the wrong tone by being too confrontational.
    Starmer has got this right in the past - supportive of the general approach, but pointing out areas where "could do better". HM Loyal Opposition want the government to succeed in this national endeavour, but highlight areas where further improvements could be made. This is far more important than party politics, which comes across as petty point scoring, missing the bigger picture.
    Disagree. The Opposition's stance should be that we can do anything about anything better than you. Wherever we are today we would have been in a better place had we been in charge and there isn't a moment to lose to put us in charge so we can start making the country a better place.

    Omicron? Put us in charge and we'll sort it out via Plan B+ (or C or D or...).

    As it stands they are saying yes we will agree but it should be more. Well that is not an alternative that is agreeing with the government, broadly, albeit with some tweaks. Again.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 5,390

    I've watched Dr Rosena. Started well, went on a bit and drifted off topic.

    Not brilliant, but no car crash either. And certainly not "shrill".


    And I loved the subliminal message when she touched her chest when referring to the NHS: "That's me, that is!"

    Its perception based. I listened on the radio, missed who she was and found her sacntimonous attitude shrill and irritating. At some point there may well be a realisation that the government and advisors got it right re opening fully in England in July, and those who wanted to not do it, would have consigned England to the same conditions as may well happen in Europe this winter. Getting the unvaxxed immunity via the last few month of high cases has probably, overall, been a good thing.
  • TazTaz Posts: 2,991
    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    When does the mask mandate in shops *supposed to start* ?

    4am tomorrow. Expect yet more abuse and attacks on shop workers as we had last time.
    "Piers Corbyn has released an anti-mask song that states ‘wearing a mask is like trying to keep a fart in your trousers’. This is where we are, folks."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/piers-corbyn-mask-song-tube-b1966057.html
    If people are farting in public, I would prefer that out of politeness that they wear underpants and trousers.
    Biohazard Level 5 suits would be ideal....
    The man who walked through Bath in full hazmat gear clutching 27 toilet rolls

    https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/coronavirus-covid-19-toilet-rolls-3945503
    @Dura_Ace?
    Toilet rolls, more like Dura_Arse !
  • Pagin TSE....Steps axe their remaining tour dates due to further Covid cases

    Seen them many many times, so long as Slade cancel on me on the 19th of December.
    I presumed Noddy Holder didn't do winters in the UK....imagine where ever you go for a 6 weeks all you hear is that bloody song. At least until very recently, apparently he was still making £200k a year out of the royalties, so I presumed he buggered off somewhere warm with the money.
    He left the band ages ago.

    This is Slade sans Noddy Holder.
    How can you have Slade without Noddy?
    It's a bit like Queen with Paul Rodgers.

    Ok but you really wish Freddie was still was with us.
    Paul Rodgers? No, he "left" Queen a decade ago. It's Adam Lambert nowadays.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_+_Adam_Lambert

    Again, no real match for Freddie!
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 12,212

    South Africa COVID update:

    - New cases: 2,273
    - Average: 2,255 (+280)
    - Positivity rate: 10.7% (+0.9)
    - In hospital: 2,328 (+96)
    - In ICU: 233 (+2)
    - New deaths: 25
    - Average: 34 (+2)

    That positivity rate is shooting up.

    What's the cases rate of increase w-o-w?
  • TazTaz Posts: 2,991

    Pagin TSE....Steps axe their remaining tour dates due to further Covid cases

    Seen them many many times, so long as Slade cancel on me on the 19th of December.
    I presumed Noddy Holder didn't do winters in the UK....imagine where ever you go for a 6 weeks all you hear is that bloody song. At least until very recently, apparently he was still making £200k a year out of the royalties, so I presumed he buggered off somewhere warm with the money.
    He left the band ages ago.

    This is Slade sans Noddy Holder.
    How can you have Slade without Noddy?
    On a side note ‘Slade in Flame’ is an excellent movie.
  • TazTaz Posts: 2,991

    Pagin TSE....Steps axe their remaining tour dates due to further Covid cases

    Seen them many many times, so long as Slade cancel on me on the 19th of December.
    I presumed Noddy Holder didn't do winters in the UK....imagine where ever you go for a 6 weeks all you hear is that bloody song. At least until very recently, apparently he was still making £200k a year out of the royalties, so I presumed he buggered off somewhere warm with the money.
    He left the band ages ago.

    This is Slade sans Noddy Holder.
    How can you have Slade without Noddy?
    It's a sign of the times.
    That’s the Belle Stars !
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 5,390
    Foxy said:

    I've watched Dr Rosena. Started well, went on a bit and drifted off topic.

    Not brilliant, but no car crash either. And certainly not "shrill".


    And I loved the subliminal message when she touched her chest when referring to the NHS: "That's me, that is!"

    Being described as "shrill" and told to watch her tone do have rather a whiff of misogyny about.
    Not my intention. It was her attitude - rather than reasoned debate she was obsessed with point scoring about masks. I think she makes the mistake of assuming that her position as an NMS employee gives her opinions more weight than other MP's.
  • Pagin TSE....Steps axe their remaining tour dates due to further Covid cases

    Seen them many many times, so long as Slade cancel on me on the 19th of December.
    I presumed Noddy Holder didn't do winters in the UK....imagine where ever you go for a 6 weeks all you hear is that bloody song. At least until very recently, apparently he was still making £200k a year out of the royalties, so I presumed he buggered off somewhere warm with the money.
    He left the band ages ago.

    This is Slade sans Noddy Holder.
    How can you have Slade without Noddy?
    Presumably it's *not* Christmas.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 5,036
    TOPPING said:

    Selebian said:

    Foxy said:

    I've watched Dr Rosena. Started well, went on a bit and drifted off topic.

    Not brilliant, but no car crash either. And certainly not "shrill".


    And I loved the subliminal message when she touched her chest when referring to the NHS: "That's me, that is!"

    Being described as "shrill" and told to watch her tone do have rather a whiff of misogyny about.
    Don't think this is directed at me, but when I used 'tone' I wasn't referring to her voice, but to the content. The correct tone in my opinion would be that this is a potentially serious variant that was always possible. Now, what do we know and what are we going to do about it? (And, possibly, this is what we'd do about it if we were in charged and this is how it's better than what you're doing, so please follow our way now).

    She seemed to want to get into a blame game over Omicron arising at all, which seemed misguided given it didn't even arise here. Javid was very easily able to bat that away in his response. I thought she struck the wrong tone by being too confrontational.
    Starmer has got this right in the past - supportive of the general approach, but pointing out areas where "could do better". HM Loyal Opposition want the government to succeed in this national endeavour, but highlight areas where further improvements could be made. This is far more important than party politics, which comes across as petty point scoring, missing the bigger picture.
    Disagree. The Opposition's stance should be that we can do anything about anything better than you. Wherever we are today we would have been in a better place had we been in charge and there isn't a moment to lose to put us in charge so we can start making the country a better place.

    Omicron? Put us in charge and we'll sort it out via Plan B+ (or C or D or...).

    As it stands they are saying yes we will agree but it should be more. Well that is not an alternative that is agreeing with the government, broadly, albeit with some tweaks. Again.
    The problem is possibly that they don't have the access to the scientific advice that the government does. And so everything the opposition says it would do is basically a guess. Presumably that's why they keep advising e.g. Plan B just when the tide turns in our favour; or taking the European approach of leaving the exit wave until winter, or advising pitching in with the European vaccine acquisition programme, or any of the other occasions when they noisily demanded a bad situation was made worse.
  • Taz said:

    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    When does the mask mandate in shops *supposed to start* ?

    4am tomorrow. Expect yet more abuse and attacks on shop workers as we had last time.
    "Piers Corbyn has released an anti-mask song that states ‘wearing a mask is like trying to keep a fart in your trousers’. This is where we are, folks."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/piers-corbyn-mask-song-tube-b1966057.html
    If people are farting in public, I would prefer that out of politeness that they wear underpants and trousers.
    Biohazard Level 5 suits would be ideal....
    The man who walked through Bath in full hazmat gear clutching 27 toilet rolls

    https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/coronavirus-covid-19-toilet-rolls-3945503
    @Dura_Ace?
    Toilet rolls, more like Dura_Arse !
    Burning rubbers like a Durex Ace? :lol:
  • South Africa COVID update:

    - New cases: 2,273
    - Average: 2,255 (+280)
    - Positivity rate: 10.7% (+0.9)
    - In hospital: 2,328 (+96)
    - In ICU: 233 (+2)
    - New deaths: 25
    - Average: 34 (+2)

    That positivity rate is shooting up.

    What's the cases rate of increase w-o-w?
    In places with poor testing regimes, the positivity rate is the figure to watch out for. A week ago it was 2%.
  • Foxy said:

    I've watched Dr Rosena. Started well, went on a bit and drifted off topic.

    Not brilliant, but no car crash either. And certainly not "shrill".


    And I loved the subliminal message when she touched her chest when referring to the NHS: "That's me, that is!"

    Being described as "shrill" and told to watch her tone do have rather a whiff of misogyny about.
    Not my intention. It was her attitude - rather than reasoned debate she was obsessed with point scoring about masks. I think she makes the mistake of assuming that her position as an NMS employee gives her opinions more weight than other MP's.
    On masks, we are about to witness how difficult it is to get people to re-mask, especially when the leading 'don't wear a mask even where you have to' advocate is the PM.
  • Liverpool owners Fenway Sports Group adding the NHL's Pittsburgh Penguins to the group that also includes MLB's Boston Red Sox
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 5,390

    Rubbish numbers for BoJo in latest Redfield, Starmer will take over soon

    I assume you mean overtake, not take over... Needs an election (or Starmer to cross the floor) for that!
  • CookieCookie Posts: 5,036

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    Not sure that I get the flap about flags. There is a difference between hoisting the England flag on the lawn every day and doing nazi salutes to having one because you identify with the nation / region. I've seen people with England / Scotland / Yorkshire / Kernow flags on their house or in their garden and it doesn't bother me that much.

    Anyway, the classy way to fly a flag is to make sure that people get the message you want to communicate. The Scotland flag design that covers the giant YES letters in Alex Salmond's garden for example...

    I agree. Not a big deal and each to his own.

    But back to where this started, Thornberry and the notorious tweet, that was a property on a normal street completely festooned with the St George. There was more flag than house. And not an international football tournament in sight.

    There is no way imo that most people wouldn't look at that and quite reasonably think "oh dear oh dear, numbskull little englander alert!"

    Now that could be unfair and be disproved on personal acquaintance. But still, c'mon.
    Is that right, there was no kickball going on? That is surprising. And a bit worrying. The EDL or someone equally horrible got into trouble for trying to adopt the quite innocent-in-context words of a Show of Hands song "I miss St George and the union jack/It's my flag too and I want it back" as their own.
    Yes, the said householder had his home festooned in November 2014 – it was nothing to do with a football tournament.
    Is there ever really a time when a football tournament isn't going on?
  • TazTaz Posts: 2,991

    Foxy said:

    I've watched Dr Rosena. Started well, went on a bit and drifted off topic.

    Not brilliant, but no car crash either. And certainly not "shrill".


    And I loved the subliminal message when she touched her chest when referring to the NHS: "That's me, that is!"

    Being described as "shrill" and told to watch her tone do have rather a whiff of misogyny about.
    Not my intention. It was her attitude - rather than reasoned debate she was obsessed with point scoring about masks. I think she makes the mistake of assuming that her position as an NMS employee gives her opinions more weight than other MP's.
    On masks, we are about to witness how difficult it is to get people to re-mask, especially when the leading 'don't wear a mask even where you have to' advocate is the PM.
    Possibly. But this is purely anecdotal as I went to town for my booster then to the shops, mask wearing seemed a lot higher than the weekend when we went to Newcastle and most people weren’t wearing them
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 32,790
    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    Selebian said:

    Foxy said:

    I've watched Dr Rosena. Started well, went on a bit and drifted off topic.

    Not brilliant, but no car crash either. And certainly not "shrill".


    And I loved the subliminal message when she touched her chest when referring to the NHS: "That's me, that is!"

    Being described as "shrill" and told to watch her tone do have rather a whiff of misogyny about.
    Don't think this is directed at me, but when I used 'tone' I wasn't referring to her voice, but to the content. The correct tone in my opinion would be that this is a potentially serious variant that was always possible. Now, what do we know and what are we going to do about it? (And, possibly, this is what we'd do about it if we were in charged and this is how it's better than what you're doing, so please follow our way now).

    She seemed to want to get into a blame game over Omicron arising at all, which seemed misguided given it didn't even arise here. Javid was very easily able to bat that away in his response. I thought she struck the wrong tone by being too confrontational.
    Starmer has got this right in the past - supportive of the general approach, but pointing out areas where "could do better". HM Loyal Opposition want the government to succeed in this national endeavour, but highlight areas where further improvements could be made. This is far more important than party politics, which comes across as petty point scoring, missing the bigger picture.
    Disagree. The Opposition's stance should be that we can do anything about anything better than you. Wherever we are today we would have been in a better place had we been in charge and there isn't a moment to lose to put us in charge so we can start making the country a better place.

    Omicron? Put us in charge and we'll sort it out via Plan B+ (or C or D or...).

    As it stands they are saying yes we will agree but it should be more. Well that is not an alternative that is agreeing with the government, broadly, albeit with some tweaks. Again.
    The problem is possibly that they don't have the access to the scientific advice that the government does. And so everything the opposition says it would do is basically a guess. Presumably that's why they keep advising e.g. Plan B just when the tide turns in our favour; or taking the European approach of leaving the exit wave until winter, or advising pitching in with the European vaccine acquisition programme, or any of the other occasions when they noisily demanded a bad situation was made worse.
    Interesting and good point yes perhaps that is the case. But there are so many possible outcomes of handling Covid that actually does it really matter? Has the government put every foot right to date? I don't think we can say that. So if they really want to be seen as a government in waiting, a national emergency (even or especially one where the govt hasn't shared critical info with them, hence exacerbating the negative effect of Covid) is a good time to start differentiating themselves.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 5,390

    Watching back over Dr Khan's statement and thinking that her main crime is that she is a woman and has a higher pitched voice. For shame.

    If that's aimed at me you can feck off. I despair at the attitude towards mask wearing - constantly on at the conservatives about, and a reluctance to concede that maybe, just maybe the opening up in July was right. I despair at her attitude that reeks of superior judgement because she works for the NHS.
  • What was that about megaphone diplomacy?

    The UK boasts “an economic model of, sometimes, quasi-modern slavery,” according to French Europe Minister Clément Beaune.

    https://twitter.com/POLITICOEurope/status/1465372511961600000?s=20
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,904

    South Africa COVID update:

    - New cases: 2,273
    - Average: 2,255 (+280)
    - Positivity rate: 10.7% (+0.9)
    - In hospital: 2,328 (+96)
    - In ICU: 233 (+2)
    - New deaths: 25
    - Average: 34 (+2)

    That positivity rate is shooting up.

    What's the cases rate of increase w-o-w?
    According to Worldometer it is 250% !!
    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/weekly-trends/#weekly_table
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 47,491
    edited November 2021
    Appears Ed Davey is the first mp to be put under investigation by Kathryn Stone, since the sleaze scandal broke, for the registration and declaration of an interest under guide to the rules
  • Rubbish numbers for BoJo in latest Redfield, Starmer will take over soon

    I assume you mean overtake, not take over... Needs an election (or Starmer to cross the floor) for that!
    Quite right, overtake, excuse me
  • Appears Ed Davey is the first mp to be put under investigation by Kathryn Stone, since the sleaze scandal broke, for the registration and declaration of an interest under guide to the rules

    Sir Ed Davey!
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 11,446
    https://nos.nl/liveblog/2407487-boosterprik-voor-alle-volwassenen-in-vk-ryanair-omikronvariant-geen-reden-tot-annuleren

    "Now 14 people with the omikron variant in the Netherlands

    There are now 14 people in the Netherlands who have been shown to have the new omikron variant. This also concerns someone who flew back from South Africa over the weekend and had to undergo a test at Schiphol Airport, reports Minister De Jonge.

    Further analysis has shown that the people who have tested positive so far have probably contracted the virus in different places. "In any case not during the flight," De Jonge writes to the Lower House.

    The minister said earlier that it is not inconceivable that there are already more infections with the new corona variant in the Netherlands under the radar. Scientists still have many questions about the omikron variant."
  • RobDRobD Posts: 56,564

    What was that about megaphone diplomacy?

    The UK boasts “an economic model of, sometimes, quasi-modern slavery,” according to French Europe Minister Clément Beaune.

    https://twitter.com/POLITICOEurope/status/1465372511961600000?s=20

    And yet the migrants are still desperate to get out of France.
  • isamisam Posts: 38,638

    Rubbish numbers for BoJo in latest Redfield, Starmer will take over soon

    So rubbish Con are 2 points ahead of the useless nonentity you are fanboy for.
    As predicted, you will jump on this poll even though on average Labour are now ahead and indeed have been in all other polls released of late, as far as I am aware.

    BoJo's ratings way down, below Starmer's and losing its grip, the trend is clear, Labour up, Tories down.

    Resign and join the SWP as you'd be happier with the racists there
    Boris leads on Gross Positives, don’t be fooled by net scores
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 15,800

    Liverpool owners Fenway Sports Group adding the NHL's Pittsburgh Penguins to the group that also includes MLB's Boston Red Sox

    Pittsburgh Penguins.

    Is there another team called the Kentucky Kitkats?

    Or Baltimore Breakaways

    Or Colorado Clubs

    Or Wisconsin Wagon Wheels

    Or Dakota Dime Bars
  • isam said:

    Rubbish numbers for BoJo in latest Redfield, Starmer will take over soon

    So rubbish Con are 2 points ahead of the useless nonentity you are fanboy for.
    As predicted, you will jump on this poll even though on average Labour are now ahead and indeed have been in all other polls released of late, as far as I am aware.

    BoJo's ratings way down, below Starmer's and losing its grip, the trend is clear, Labour up, Tories down.

    Resign and join the SWP as you'd be happier with the racists there
    Boris leads on Gross Positives, don’t be fooled by net scores
    You are Muhammad Saeed al-Sahhaf and I claim my £5
  • "There is — let's say it — an economic model of, sometimes, quasi-modern slavery or at least of illegal work that is very strong." Exploitation of illegal workers "is more prevalent in the U.K. than [in France], because there are less checks," Beaune said.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/clement-beaune-france-uk-quasi-modern-slavery-channel-migration-crisis/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1638200791

    Lets see......

    Share of "Shadow Economy":

    France: 11.65
    UK: 8.32

    https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/shadow_economy/Europe/
  • Liverpool owners Fenway Sports Group adding the NHL's Pittsburgh Penguins to the group that also includes MLB's Boston Red Sox

    Pittsburgh Penguins.

    Is there another team called the Kentucky Kitkats?

    Or Baltimore Breakaways

    Or Colorado Clubs

    Or Wisconsin Wagon Wheels

    Or Dakota Dime Bars
    Those teams would fit in well with The Hundred.
  • eekeek Posts: 17,262
    edited November 2021

    Liverpool owners Fenway Sports Group adding the NHL's Pittsburgh Penguins to the group that also includes MLB's Boston Red Sox

    Pittsburgh Penguins.

    I
    Pittsburgh - the only City where all 3 franchises have the same colour scheme ( black and gold to match Pittsburgh's flag)

    Their NBA team also goes for alliteration Pittsburgh Pirates but the NFL team lets the alliteration game down by being the Steelers.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,408
    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    UK COVID Summary

    - Cases have stopped rising nationally - pretty much. The cases among the older part of the population is still falling.
    - Admissions are still falling. In the England data this is largely in the 64-85 group.
    - Deaths are still falling.

    Still riding the exit Delta wave quite nicely but will Omicron knock us off the board and force us to remount?
    Difficult to say just yet, we need to know whether Omicron can cause severe disease in vaccinated and recovered patients with high immunity to Delta. If it does then we're all pretty much fucked, if it doesn't then it's really no change.
    Yes, fingers crossed it's nearer to 'as we were' than 'oh no, Covid rides again'.

    I found this a striking sentence from the BBC write up of Omicron:

    "This level of mutation has most likely come from a single patient who was unable to beat the virus."
    Yes, it's the same as Alpha and Delta, an immunocompromised person who was kept on life support. The subject came up yesterday, the one doctor at lunch was very much unable to resolve the ethical quandary of turning off the life support machines for the greater good while the scientists and academics were all pretty clear that life support shouldn't be available to COVID patients unable to defeat the virus in one or two attempts as it allows for significant viral evolution and may set the whole world back and cause countless deaths. It is the reason doctors make for poor public health officials, they can't see beyond the single patient, as harsh as that sounds.
    That's quite a thought - a single dying person cooking up inside them a new malign variant. And, yes, an interesting ethical issue. There are quite a few of those thrown up by Covid.
    Indeed, and think about this - the person in whom Omicron originated may not have been eligible for a vaccine anyway, a lot of people who are severely immunocompromised aren't. So the whole narrative of this being caused by vaccine inequity may not even apply in this case. I'm not saying we shouldn't be doing our part to fix vaccine inequity, we should, but in the most serious mutation cases it's been the same class of patients making multiple attempts to defeat the virus which gives the virus a lot of opportunities to evolve and evade multiple standard natural immune responses.

    As you say, quite an interesting ethical issue.
    It really is. And it's one I wasn't aware of. Not a nice thought at all. Still, the other point, the global dimension to this remains very valid imo.

    There was a famous ad years ago ("for Mash get Smash") that featured very intellectually advanced aliens observing us earthlings and laughing fondly at our absurd behaviours.

    When considering the 'big picture' vaccination profile for this global pandemic, how in some places there's heated debate about which of the many available flavours is best for 3rd and 4th jabs, and how quickly they should happen, should children be given one, etc etc, when in other places they haven't been able to hardly get started on a 1st jab for the most vulnerable, I often think of that advert.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SAbJjktk7E
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 5,390

    Foxy said:

    I've watched Dr Rosena. Started well, went on a bit and drifted off topic.

    Not brilliant, but no car crash either. And certainly not "shrill".


    And I loved the subliminal message when she touched her chest when referring to the NHS: "That's me, that is!"

    Being described as "shrill" and told to watch her tone do have rather a whiff of misogyny about.
    Not my intention. It was her attitude - rather than reasoned debate she was obsessed with point scoring about masks. I think she makes the mistake of assuming that her position as an NMS employee gives her opinions more weight than other MP's.
    On masks, we are about to witness how difficult it is to get people to re-mask, especially when the leading 'don't wear a mask even where you have to' advocate is the PM.
    I don't disagree. But as they apparently have an effect on R of about 0.1% I'm not about to lose my shit over it.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 5,036
    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    I've watched Dr Rosena. Started well, went on a bit and drifted off topic.

    Not brilliant, but no car crash either. And certainly not "shrill".

    And I loved the subliminal message when she touched her chest when referring to the NHS: "That's me, that is!"

    Yep, many say they love the NHS but she actually does.
    I'm not sure that 'loving the NHS' is massively helpful for giving it the massive boot up the arse it clearly needs.
    Boot up the arse? Is that new slang for 'increase in funding'?
    I think it has already had a massive increase in funding. But it doesn't seem to have led to, for example, being able to see a GP easily.

    Look, I have nothing but admiration for individual doctors and nurses, who in addition to generally being more motivated than I would be to get patients better have displayed quite awesome personal bravery over the past two years.

    But the system as a whole doesn't work. The standard of care is good; the standard of customer service is not. We throw more and more money at it but we don't get better results. No matter how much money we throw at it the system remains in apparent crisis.

    I can understand why Dr. Rosena loves the NHS. It is a natural feeling of loyalty to friends and colleagues and a justifiable pride in making people better. But I wonder if someone who loves the NHS is well enough placed to see its flaws.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 70,000
    edited November 2021
    I still don't really understand how this system works for Swedish PMs

    In Monday's vote in Sweden's parliament, the Riksdag, 101 of its 349 members voted yes, 75 abstained and 173 voted no.

    To be appointed prime minister under Sweden's political system, a candidate only needs to avoid a majority voting against them.


    I guess it works since you have to actively take them down, not merely defeat them from time to time?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59459733
  • LeonLeon Posts: 14,735
    DavidL said:

    What was that about megaphone diplomacy?

    The UK boasts “an economic model of, sometimes, quasi-modern slavery,” according to French Europe Minister Clément Beaune.

    https://twitter.com/POLITICOEurope/status/1465372511961600000?s=20

    I am really not sure that you are getting the correct mindset. When foreigners make observations like this they are simply telling us hard truths and bringing home to us the consequences of our folly. When our politicians respond in kind they are being bombastic simpletons, simply denying the inevitable.

    Ask @Scott_xP for more detailed guidance.
    Quite. The reason these people are risking their lives to cross the Channel to Britain is because Britain is a quasi-slave economy and these people want to be, er ~~ checks notes ~~ slaves?

    Yes. That's it
  • Lady Nugee is the new Shadow Home Secretary.

    Fantastic appointment.

    Ha ha. She’s proper rubbish. Matron from the carry on films. 🤣
    That's what I love about PB. The sophisticated political insight.
    Over the weekend I was getting worried we might get a Labour government. Looks like Starmer has put that worry to death today 🙂
    If that is your idea of a witty repost you might be disappointed to know I am a (lapsed) Tory. If you are worried about a Labour government you should be concerned that Starmer might be putting serious people in shadow cabinet positions and making Johnson's government look even more lightweight and ridiculous than it does already. Surprised he hasn't done it before tbh. If he brings in Cooper and other people that don't scare floating voters then Peppa Pig might get the chance for a new full time brand ambassador
    This is a serious repost. Cooper ain’t no heavy weight, she just been around a long time that’s all. Don’t you think Cooper sounds horribly full of herself and that’s the reason Labour lose, too many people like that? Good politicians aren’t shouty or sharp and aggressive. Vince Cable never was, nor Nick Clegg. You’ve just got to calmly make the right case.
    You mention good politicians. Why do you then talk about Vince Cable and Nick Clegg?
  • Following this tweet from the Scottish Health Minister, I've managed to book myself a booster dose for December 8th, about a week before we're planning to visit our daughter down in Bath. I'm delighted. It will be 20 weeks after my second dose, so not far in advance of the previous 24 week interval recommended.
  • MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    UK COVID Summary

    - Cases have stopped rising nationally - pretty much. The cases among the older part of the population is still falling.
    - Admissions are still falling. In the England data this is largely in the 64-85 group.
    - Deaths are still falling.

    Still riding the exit Delta wave quite nicely but will Omicron knock us off the board and force us to remount?
    Difficult to say just yet, we need to know whether Omicron can cause severe disease in vaccinated and recovered patients with high immunity to Delta. If it does then we're all pretty much fucked, if it doesn't then it's really no change.
    Yes, fingers crossed it's nearer to 'as we were' than 'oh no, Covid rides again'.

    I found this a striking sentence from the BBC write up of Omicron:

    "This level of mutation has most likely come from a single patient who was unable to beat the virus."
    Yes, it's the same as Alpha and Delta, an immunocompromised person who was kept on life support. The subject came up yesterday, the one doctor at lunch was very much unable to resolve the ethical quandary of turning off the life support machines for the greater good while the scientists and academics were all pretty clear that life support shouldn't be available to COVID patients unable to defeat the virus in one or two attempts as it allows for significant viral evolution and may set the whole world back and cause countless deaths. It is the reason doctors make for poor public health officials, they can't see beyond the single patient, as harsh as that sounds.
    That's quite a thought - a single dying person cooking up inside them a new malign variant. And, yes, an interesting ethical issue. There are quite a few of those thrown up by Covid.
    Indeed, and think about this - the person in whom Omicron originated may not have been eligible for a vaccine anyway, a lot of people who are severely immunocompromised aren't. So the whole narrative of this being caused by vaccine inequity may not even apply in this case. I'm not saying we shouldn't be doing our part to fix vaccine inequity, we should, but in the most serious mutation cases it's been the same class of patients making multiple attempts to defeat the virus which gives the virus a lot of opportunities to evolve and evade multiple standard natural immune responses.

    As you say, quite an interesting ethical issue.
    Another question is whether this grim struggle was more likely to have happened in a developed country throwing everything at the patient or in a developing one where more brutal triage may be necessary.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 14,735
    Troubling



    "Gabriele Steinhauser
    @gksteinhauser
    ·
    5h
    2/x These are super-early conclusions (1st known case in SA is from Nov 11) and will take time, and, sadly, more patients, to firm up. Covid 19 hospitalizations have jumped sharply since #Omicron was detected, but in line with what we saw during previous waves,


    Gabriele Steinhauser
    @gksteinhauser
    3/x that were driven by other variants. The main outbreak here also started among young people, which further distorts the early picture we're getting on severe outcomes. One thing that stood out to experts is the unusually high number of babies and toddlers in hospital."

    BUT it may just be nervous parents, important to note


    https://twitter.com/gksteinhauser/status/1465299210631323650?s=20
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 12,212
    edited November 2021

    South Africa COVID update:

    - New cases: 2,273
    - Average: 2,255 (+280)
    - Positivity rate: 10.7% (+0.9)
    - In hospital: 2,328 (+96)
    - In ICU: 233 (+2)
    - New deaths: 25
    - Average: 34 (+2)

    That positivity rate is shooting up.

    What's the cases rate of increase w-o-w?
    In places with poor testing regimes, the positivity rate is the figure to watch out for. A week ago it was 2%.
    Just out of interest though, what is the increase in cases w-o-w?

    (And have SA got a particularly poor testing regime?)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,408
    edited November 2021
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    I've watched Dr Rosena. Started well, went on a bit and drifted off topic.

    Not brilliant, but no car crash either. And certainly not "shrill".

    And I loved the subliminal message when she touched her chest when referring to the NHS: "That's me, that is!"

    Yep, many say they love the NHS but she actually does.
    I'm not sure that 'loving the NHS' is massively helpful for giving it the massive boot up the arse it clearly needs.
    Boot up the arse? Is that new slang for 'increase in funding'?
    I think it has already had a massive increase in funding. But it doesn't seem to have led to, for example, being able to see a GP easily.

    Look, I have nothing but admiration for individual doctors and nurses, who in addition to generally being more motivated than I would be to get patients better have displayed quite awesome personal bravery over the past two years.

    But the system as a whole doesn't work. The standard of care is good; the standard of customer service is not. We throw more and more money at it but we don't get better results. No matter how much money we throw at it the system remains in apparent crisis.

    I can understand why Dr. Rosena loves the NHS. It is a natural feeling of loyalty to friends and colleagues and a justifiable pride in making people better. But I wonder if someone who loves the NHS is well enough placed to see its flaws.
    Well it's been relatively starved of funds in the last decade cf previously. And we spend less than most of the rich nations on healthcare. But, yes, I agree we need greater investment AND to look at the model. I'm not someone who thinks the NHS is sacrosanct. What's sacrosanct is good quality medical care based on need not ability to pay. As for Rosena, I was just essaying a little 'love actually' joke in fact. So subtle you didn't get it - and if a sharpie like you didn't, I suppose nobody did. I'm too good for this place.
  • eekeek Posts: 17,262
    edited November 2021
    I wasn't kidding earlier when I hinted that TFL are in serious trouble finance wise.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10254463/Could-Bakerloo-line-SHUT-Fears-Sadiq-Khan-close-115-year-old-Tube-route-save-cash.html

    In theory there is a document saying what lines and services need to be kept open come what may.

    That list was never specified to begin with so the only services the TFL need to run is the Thames Clipper, the Woolwich ferry and um services unkown.
  • What was that about megaphone diplomacy?

    The UK boasts “an economic model of, sometimes, quasi-modern slavery,” according to French Europe Minister Clément Beaune.

    https://twitter.com/POLITICOEurope/status/1465372511961600000?s=20

    If M. Beaune married someone with the surname "Head" then he could have a very appropriate hyphenated surname. Or perhaps it should be "Tete". Or maybe just Tit. France is a wonderful country. Far too good to be owned by the French.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 940
    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    What was that about megaphone diplomacy?

    The UK boasts “an economic model of, sometimes, quasi-modern slavery,” according to French Europe Minister Clément Beaune.

    https://twitter.com/POLITICOEurope/status/1465372511961600000?s=20

    I am really not sure that you are getting the correct mindset. When foreigners make observations like this they are simply telling us hard truths and bringing home to us the consequences of our folly. When our politicians respond in kind they are being bombastic simpletons, simply denying the inevitable.

    Ask @Scott_xP for more detailed guidance.
    Quite. The reason these people are risking their lives to cross the Channel to Britain is because Britain is a quasi-slave economy and these people want to be, er ~~ checks notes ~~ slaves?

    Yes. That's it
    Both sides are just indulging in histrionics. The reason some people risk lives to get to Britain is because they have specific reasons to want to come here - like family or wider kin, or the English language - just as others want to get to Germany (mostly), or Sweden, or France etc. for their own reasons.

  • RogerRoger Posts: 15,223
    Omnium said:

    Rubbish numbers for BoJo in latest Redfield, Starmer will take over soon

    Hard to see quite how. Bad numbers for Boris just make 2024 more likely. Very bad numbers just make a pre-election switch to a new Tory leader more likely.

    Today's reshuffle might be important in this, but Starmer keeping order until 2024 in Labour seems unlikely. Paradoxically the more unpopular Boris gets the harder it'll become for Starmer to hang on.

    The market suggests about 15-20% chance for Starmer to be next PM. That seems about right.
    'Keeping order in Labour' for a leader doesn't seem to matter. Corbyn got his best election result after a quarter of his own MP's had passed a vote of no confidence in him.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 14,735
    eek said:

    I wasn't kidding earlier when I hinted that TFL are in serious trouble finance wise.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10254463/Could-Bakerloo-line-SHUT-Fears-Sadiq-Khan-close-115-year-old-Tube-route-save-cash.html

    In theory there is a document saying what lines and services need to be kept open come what may.

    That list was never specified to begin with so the only services the TFL need to run is the Thames Clipper, the Woolwich ferry and um services unkown.

    TfL has a "£1.7 BILLION" funding gap but don't worry, Sadiq Khan is going to save "£60m over five years" by moving London City Hall to a dump in the middle of nowhere

    What a gesturing dickhead he is
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 69,284
    edited November 2021
    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    UK COVID Summary

    - Cases have stopped rising nationally - pretty much. The cases among the older part of the population is still falling.
    - Admissions are still falling. In the England data this is largely in the 64-85 group.
    - Deaths are still falling.

    Still riding the exit Delta wave quite nicely but will Omicron knock us off the board and force us to remount?
    Difficult to say just yet, we need to know whether Omicron can cause severe disease in vaccinated and recovered patients with high immunity to Delta. If it does then we're all pretty much fucked, if it doesn't then it's really no change.
    Yes, fingers crossed it's nearer to 'as we were' than 'oh no, Covid rides again'.

    I found this a striking sentence from the BBC write up of Omicron:

    "This level of mutation has most likely come from a single patient who was unable to beat the virus."
    Yes, it's the same as Alpha and Delta, an immunocompromised person who was kept on life support. The subject came up yesterday, the one doctor at lunch was very much unable to resolve the ethical quandary of turning off the life support machines for the greater good while the scientists and academics were all pretty clear that life support shouldn't be available to COVID patients unable to defeat the virus in one or two attempts as it allows for significant viral evolution and may set the whole world back and cause countless deaths. It is the reason doctors make for poor public health officials, they can't see beyond the single patient, as harsh as that sounds.
    That's quite a thought - a single dying person cooking up inside them a new malign variant. And, yes, an interesting ethical issue. There are quite a few of those thrown up by Covid.
    Indeed, and think about this - the person in whom Omicron originated may not have been eligible for a vaccine anyway, a lot of people who are severely immunocompromised aren't. So the whole narrative of this being caused by vaccine inequity may not even apply in this case. I'm not saying we shouldn't be doing our part to fix vaccine inequity, we should, but in the most serious mutation cases it's been the same class of patients making multiple attempts to defeat the virus which gives the virus a lot of opportunities to evolve and evade multiple standard natural immune responses.

    As you say, quite an interesting ethical issue.
    It really is. And it's one I wasn't aware of. Not a nice thought at all. Still, the other point, the global dimension to this remains very valid imo.

    There was a famous ad years ago ("for Mash get Smash") that featured very intellectually advanced aliens observing us earthlings and laughing fondly at our absurd behaviours.

    When considering the 'big picture' vaccination profile for this global pandemic, how in some places there's heated debate about which of the many available flavours is best for 3rd and 4th jabs, and how quickly they should happen, should children be given one, etc etc, when in other places they haven't been able to hardly get started on a 1st jab for the most vulnerable, I often think of that advert.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SAbJjktk7E
    able to hardly get started on a 1st jab for the most vulnerable

    The very poorest places like the Democratic Republic of Congo have more to worry about than Covid tbh.
  • eek said:

    I wasn't kidding earlier when I hinted that TFL are in serious trouble finance wise.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10254463/Could-Bakerloo-line-SHUT-Fears-Sadiq-Khan-close-115-year-old-Tube-route-save-cash.html

    In theory there is a document saying what lines and services need to be kept open come what may.

    That list was never specified to begin with so the only services the TFL need to run is the Thames Clipper, the Woolwich ferry and um services unkown.

    Not surprising, when the Tories want to run down TfL so they can sell it off and privatise it.

    TfL is something we should be hugely proud of it and it were not for COVID it would be on the way to running a surplus. Private companies for the trains get unlimited money but TfL gets shafted. Because the Mayor is Labour.
  • isam said:

    Rubbish numbers for BoJo in latest Redfield, Starmer will take over soon

    So rubbish Con are 2 points ahead of the useless nonentity you are fanboy for.
    As predicted, you will jump on this poll even though on average Labour are now ahead and indeed have been in all other polls released of late, as far as I am aware.

    BoJo's ratings way down, below Starmer's and losing its grip, the trend is clear, Labour up, Tories down.

    Resign and join the SWP as you'd be happier with the racists there
    Boris leads on Gross Positives, don’t be fooled by net scores
    Goalposts shifting as isam needs to find a new way to post "Starmer is crap"
  • https://twitter.com/siennamarla/status/1465381124348301318

    Hope she has taken it, would be an excellent appointment
  • TimS said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    What was that about megaphone diplomacy?

    The UK boasts “an economic model of, sometimes, quasi-modern slavery,” according to French Europe Minister Clément Beaune.

    https://twitter.com/POLITICOEurope/status/1465372511961600000?s=20

    I am really not sure that you are getting the correct mindset. When foreigners make observations like this they are simply telling us hard truths and bringing home to us the consequences of our folly. When our politicians respond in kind they are being bombastic simpletons, simply denying the inevitable.

    Ask @Scott_xP for more detailed guidance.
    Quite. The reason these people are risking their lives to cross the Channel to Britain is because Britain is a quasi-slave economy and these people want to be, er ~~ checks notes ~~ slaves?

    Yes. That's it
    Both sides are just indulging in histrionics. The reason some people risk lives to get to Britain is because they have specific reasons to want to come here - like family or wider kin, or the English language - just as others want to get to Germany (mostly), or Sweden, or France etc. for their own reasons.

    You don't have to be a swivel-eyed right wing loon to think that the international asylum system might have a little more credibility if asylum seekers had to claim asylum in their first "safe" country they enter. Then having obtained sanctuary they should then apply to live in a country they prefer.
  • MaxPB said:

    Anybody doubting how serious the scientists think this could be, you only have to see how JCVI have gone from nah kids don't need to worry, adults, some will get a booster something in the future. Now it is jab everybody ASAP, even a 4th go around.

    I've been assured by the PB Scientific Team Brains Trust, from evidence they gathered from a GP in South Africa that there is nothing to fear.

    And Andrew Bridgen says I don't need to wear a mask.
    Quite the opposite. Almost everyone here has been saying the SA doctor has been misquoted. You see what you want to see though.
    Dr Leon and one or two others were rather reassured last night at the reporting from South Africa. I was very much hoping they were right as I have very much had enough of this Coronavirus b******s!
    Leon was reassured? He is doom-pornographer in chief, barely a minute goes by without another bout of hysterical hyperbole from him.
    "Oh, God! Oh, God! We're all gonna die?"
    Well, he was dead by the end of the film…
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 21,175
    Labour want masks in pubs. Muppets both epidemiologically and politically.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 18,982
    edited November 2021
    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    What was that about megaphone diplomacy?

    The UK boasts “an economic model of, sometimes, quasi-modern slavery,” according to French Europe Minister Clément Beaune.

    https://twitter.com/POLITICOEurope/status/1465372511961600000?s=20

    I am really not sure that you are getting the correct mindset. When foreigners make observations like this they are simply telling us hard truths and bringing home to us the consequences of our folly. When our politicians respond in kind they are being bombastic simpletons, simply denying the inevitable.

    Ask @Scott_xP for more detailed guidance.
    Quite. The reason these people are risking their lives to cross the Channel to Britain is because Britain is a quasi-slave economy and these people want to be, er ~~ checks notes ~~ slaves?

    Yes. That's it
    Can't argue with your logic there. France has twats as politicians too - who'd a thunk it, eh?

    Personally, I am still baffled to know why these families and many others risk their lives and waste lots of money to get across the channel. I understand that we are extremely lucky to be living in the UK but the same applies to those living in the rest of western Europe too.

    Genuinely struggling to work it out.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 56,564

    eek said:

    I wasn't kidding earlier when I hinted that TFL are in serious trouble finance wise.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10254463/Could-Bakerloo-line-SHUT-Fears-Sadiq-Khan-close-115-year-old-Tube-route-save-cash.html

    In theory there is a document saying what lines and services need to be kept open come what may.

    That list was never specified to begin with so the only services the TFL need to run is the Thames Clipper, the Woolwich ferry and um services unkown.

    Not surprising, when the Tories want to run down TfL so they can sell it off and privatise it.

    TfL is something we should be hugely proud of it and it were not for COVID it would be on the way to running a surplus. Private companies for the trains get unlimited money but TfL gets shafted. Because the Mayor is Labour.
    What was the financial position immediately prior? I thought it was always far from profitable.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 15,800
    eek said:

    I wasn't kidding earlier when I hinted that TFL are in serious trouble finance wise.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10254463/Could-Bakerloo-line-SHUT-Fears-Sadiq-Khan-close-115-year-old-Tube-route-save-cash.html

    In theory there is a document saying what lines and services need to be kept open come what may.

    That list was never specified to begin with so the only services the TFL need to run is the Thames Clipper, the Woolwich ferry and um services unkown.

    I was well into my 40s before I twigged how the name Bakerloo was derived.
  • maaarsh said:

    Redfield will now be the true poll as it shows the Tories in the lead, watch BJO and other PB Tories refer to it at every junction

    The true poll was in 2019 and you'll be waiting a while for the next one.
    PB Tories! ASSEMBLE!!!
  • kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    UK COVID Summary

    - Cases have stopped rising nationally - pretty much. The cases among the older part of the population is still falling.
    - Admissions are still falling. In the England data this is largely in the 64-85 group.
    - Deaths are still falling.

    Still riding the exit Delta wave quite nicely but will Omicron knock us off the board and force us to remount?
    Difficult to say just yet, we need to know whether Omicron can cause severe disease in vaccinated and recovered patients with high immunity to Delta. If it does then we're all pretty much fucked, if it doesn't then it's really no change.
    Yes, fingers crossed it's nearer to 'as we were' than 'oh no, Covid rides again'.

    I found this a striking sentence from the BBC write up of Omicron:

    "This level of mutation has most likely come from a single patient who was unable to beat the virus."
    Yes, it's the same as Alpha and Delta, an immunocompromised person who was kept on life support. The subject came up yesterday, the one doctor at lunch was very much unable to resolve the ethical quandary of turning off the life support machines for the greater good while the scientists and academics were all pretty clear that life support shouldn't be available to COVID patients unable to defeat the virus in one or two attempts as it allows for significant viral evolution and may set the whole world back and cause countless deaths. It is the reason doctors make for poor public health officials, they can't see beyond the single patient, as harsh as that sounds.
    That's quite a thought - a single dying person cooking up inside them a new malign variant. And, yes, an interesting ethical issue. There are quite a few of those thrown up by Covid.
    Indeed, and think about this - the person in whom Omicron originated may not have been eligible for a vaccine anyway, a lot of people who are severely immunocompromised aren't. So the whole narrative of this being caused by vaccine inequity may not even apply in this case. I'm not saying we shouldn't be doing our part to fix vaccine inequity, we should, but in the most serious mutation cases it's been the same class of patients making multiple attempts to defeat the virus which gives the virus a lot of opportunities to evolve and evade multiple standard natural immune responses.

    As you say, quite an interesting ethical issue.
    It really is. And it's one I wasn't aware of. Not a nice thought at all. Still, the other point, the global dimension to this remains very valid imo.

    There was a famous ad years ago ("for Mash get Smash") that featured very intellectually advanced aliens observing us earthlings and laughing fondly at our absurd behaviours.

    When considering the 'big picture' vaccination profile for this global pandemic, how in some places there's heated debate about which of the many available flavours is best for 3rd and 4th jabs, and how quickly they should happen, should children be given one, etc etc, when in other places they haven't been able to hardly get started on a 1st jab for the most vulnerable, I often think of that advert.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SAbJjktk7E
    There's nothing absurd about it at all.

    Those countries that haven't done jabs for their vulnerable should have sorted themselves out to get jabs available.

    If they haven't because they can't sort themselves out and they need our generosity to get it sorted, then our generosity is dependent upon us running normally. So getting our own ones done first is still the right thing to do, in order to be able to better aid others.

    If we go back into lockdown and halt aid as a result, then who does that help?

    Its the same in an airplane - always put your own oxygen mask on first before helping others.
  • Labour is 26 points behind - Starmer is crap

    Labour is 2 points ahead - Starmer is crap

    Starmer beats BoJo as best PM - Starmer is crap

    A strange pattern
  • MattWMattW Posts: 11,691
    Taz said:

    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    When does the mask mandate in shops *supposed to start* ?

    4am tomorrow. Expect yet more abuse and attacks on shop workers as we had last time.
    "Piers Corbyn has released an anti-mask song that states ‘wearing a mask is like trying to keep a fart in your trousers’. This is where we are, folks."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/piers-corbyn-mask-song-tube-b1966057.html
    If people are farting in public, I would prefer that out of politeness that they wear underpants and trousers.
    Biohazard Level 5 suits would be ideal....
    The man who walked through Bath in full hazmat gear clutching 27 toilet rolls

    https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/coronavirus-covid-19-toilet-rolls-3945503
    @Dura_Ace?
    Toilet rolls, more like Dura_Arse !
    If it's Bath, isn't that just someone who expected to meet Wings Over Scotland, who has stopped blogging and is now out hunting for his second pair of underpants since 2005?
  • https://twitter.com/siennamarla/status/1465381124348301318

    Hope she has taken it, would be an excellent appointment

    As I said earlier, it would be an indicator that Labour is serious about winning again.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 12,212

    eek said:

    I wasn't kidding earlier when I hinted that TFL are in serious trouble finance wise.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10254463/Could-Bakerloo-line-SHUT-Fears-Sadiq-Khan-close-115-year-old-Tube-route-save-cash.html

    In theory there is a document saying what lines and services need to be kept open come what may.

    That list was never specified to begin with so the only services the TFL need to run is the Thames Clipper, the Woolwich ferry and um services unkown.

    I was well into my 40s before I twigged how the name Bakerloo was derived.
    They need to think of similarly pithy names for the Hammersmith & City and the Waterloo & City lines – both are typographically awkward and needlessly long and clunky.

    They should all be one word.

    City line

    and

    Waterloo line

    would work fine.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 3,395

    Magdalena Andersson has been reappointed as Sweden’s Prime Minister

    ...but will Lady Nugee be re-appointed Shadow Home Secretary?

    moonshine said:

    Dunno who this ringer is giving Labour’s response to Javid. But she is one of those that doesn’t understand that covid is here forever and still thinks it can be eliminated if only the intrusion into our lives was strong enough. This Labour Party wants to condemn us to masks and tracking until we die. Concerning. Deeply deeply concerning.

    Dr Rosena Allin Khan? I'm quite sure we can disregard her complete lack of medical know-how in favour of the collected PB experts like your good self.
    Did you watch her response because if you did I doubt you would dismiss it so lightly

    It was wrong in tone and content, as has been commented on here by others
    By you, Carlotta and Selebian, so far.

    She should have done better, but it wasn't the Peppa Pig fiasco to which you allude.
    I condemned Boris peppa pig speech at the time and since, but that does not mean we can give labour politicians a free pass when they make a totally inappropriate response to a very serious matter
    As I didn't watch it I'm quoting from the Guardian: "She was largely critical of the government, saying that masks should never have been made voluntary on public transport in the first place, that sick pay is still inadequate, and that there should be compulsory pre-departure Covid tests for people flying into the UK. She also criticised Boris Johnson for his record on mask wearing, saying he had put people at risk in a hospital."

    Can't see anything "wrong in tone or content" from that.
    So you did not watch it then
    Did I say that I did? But you said wrong in content:
    "masks should never have been made voluntary" - England is certainly an outlier on that compared to pretty much anywhere else. Now that they need to reinstate masks it is going to be very very hard to do so.
    "sick pay is still inadequate" - thats hardly controversial is it?
    "there should be compulsory pre-departure Covid tests for people flying into the UK" even if we don't want to go that far, we've been very lax on arrivals and we're still behind the curve compared to various other major economies
    "criticised Boris Johnson for his record on mask wearing" - again hardly controversial

    I personally don't rate her that highly as a politician. But I rate her medical knowledge higher than mine or yours or the PB brains trust.
    What’s was this wise sage saying and doing while the PB Brain Trust were forewarning of a generational emergency in Feb 2020?
  • MaffewMaffew Posts: 221
    Leon said:

    Troubling



    "Gabriele Steinhauser
    @gksteinhauser
    ·
    5h
    2/x These are super-early conclusions (1st known case in SA is from Nov 11) and will take time, and, sadly, more patients, to firm up. Covid 19 hospitalizations have jumped sharply since #Omicron was detected, but in line with what we saw during previous waves,


    Gabriele Steinhauser
    @gksteinhauser
    3/x that were driven by other variants. The main outbreak here also started among young people, which further distorts the early picture we're getting on severe outcomes. One thing that stood out to experts is the unusually high number of babies and toddlers in hospital."

    BUT it may just be nervous parents, important to note


    https://twitter.com/gksteinhauser/status/1465299210631323650?s=20

    I'm 99% sure I remember almost identical stories about every other variant too.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 14,735
    edited November 2021
    Hungary records its worst day ever in the pandemic


    27,830 cases, 460 deaths


    The equivalent in the UK would be:

    190,000 cases and 3,200 deaths



    Edit: there does seem to be some data catch up here, so not quite as grim as that. But still, grim

    I kinda hope for the sake of central Europe that Omicron is already there, causing these awful numbers, because if they have Omicron to come, on TOP of all this....
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 21,175

    eek said:

    I wasn't kidding earlier when I hinted that TFL are in serious trouble finance wise.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10254463/Could-Bakerloo-line-SHUT-Fears-Sadiq-Khan-close-115-year-old-Tube-route-save-cash.html

    In theory there is a document saying what lines and services need to be kept open come what may.

    That list was never specified to begin with so the only services the TFL need to run is the Thames Clipper, the Woolwich ferry and um services unkown.

    I was well into my 40s before I twigged how the name Bakerloo was derived.
    They need to think of similarly pithy names for the Hammersmith & City and the Waterloo & City lines – both are typographically awkward and needlessly long and clunky.

    They should all be one word.

    City line

    and

    Waterloo line

    would work fine.
    The Victoria Line was originally going to be called the Vicking line (i.e. Victoria-King's Cross), but it didn't stick. The obvious name, of course, was Viking Line.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 70,000

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    What was that about megaphone diplomacy?

    The UK boasts “an economic model of, sometimes, quasi-modern slavery,” according to French Europe Minister Clément Beaune.

    https://twitter.com/POLITICOEurope/status/1465372511961600000?s=20

    I am really not sure that you are getting the correct mindset. When foreigners make observations like this they are simply telling us hard truths and bringing home to us the consequences of our folly. When our politicians respond in kind they are being bombastic simpletons, simply denying the inevitable.

    Ask @Scott_xP for more detailed guidance.
    Quite. The reason these people are risking their lives to cross the Channel to Britain is because Britain is a quasi-slave economy and these people want to be, er ~~ checks notes ~~ slaves?

    Yes. That's it
    Can't argue with your logic there. France has twats as politicians too - who'd a thunk it, eh?

    Personally, I am still baffled to know why these families and many others risk their lives and waste lots of money to get across the channel. I understand that we are extremely lucky to be living in the UK but the same applies to those living in the rest of western Europe too.

    Genuinely struggling to work it out.
    Leaving aside those seeking here in particular because of family connections or language, even though a great many do settle in France and other Western European nations I'd assume for some it is still not an easy path, and the temptation will always be that you push on just a little bit more because it is bound to be much easier somewhere else, like the UK, whether that has any truth or not.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 15,800
    Seems a better gig for Nandy. Her northern credentials were wasted on Foreign Affairs.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited November 2021

    Labour is 26 points behind - Starmer is crap

    Labour is 2 points ahead - Starmer is crap

    Starmer beats BoJo as best PM - Starmer is crap

    A strange pattern

    What's strange about it? It seems like a pretty consistent pattern.

    It doesn't matter what the polls say, Starmer being crap isn't related to midterm polls.

    Corbyn's Labour were ahead in the polls for most of March to July 2019, until Boris replaced May as PM.

    16/4/19 and 21/5/19 Corbyn's Labour was 10 points in the lead.

    Corbyn was crap throughout, even when 10 points in the lead he was still crap.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,408
    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    UK COVID Summary

    - Cases have stopped rising nationally - pretty much. The cases among the older part of the population is still falling.
    - Admissions are still falling. In the England data this is largely in the 64-85 group.
    - Deaths are still falling.

    Still riding the exit Delta wave quite nicely but will Omicron knock us off the board and force us to remount?
    Difficult to say just yet, we need to know whether Omicron can cause severe disease in vaccinated and recovered patients with high immunity to Delta. If it does then we're all pretty much fucked, if it doesn't then it's really no change.
    Yes, fingers crossed it's nearer to 'as we were' than 'oh no, Covid rides again'.

    I found this a striking sentence from the BBC write up of Omicron:

    "This level of mutation has most likely come from a single patient who was unable to beat the virus."
    Yes, it's the same as Alpha and Delta, an immunocompromised person who was kept on life support. The subject came up yesterday, the one doctor at lunch was very much unable to resolve the ethical quandary of turning off the life support machines for the greater good while the scientists and academics were all pretty clear that life support shouldn't be available to COVID patients unable to defeat the virus in one or two attempts as it allows for significant viral evolution and may set the whole world back and cause countless deaths. It is the reason doctors make for poor public health officials, they can't see beyond the single patient, as harsh as that sounds.
    That's quite a thought - a single dying person cooking up inside them a new malign variant. And, yes, an interesting ethical issue. There are quite a few of those thrown up by Covid.
    Indeed, and think about this - the person in whom Omicron originated may not have been eligible for a vaccine anyway, a lot of people who are severely immunocompromised aren't. So the whole narrative of this being caused by vaccine inequity may not even apply in this case. I'm not saying we shouldn't be doing our part to fix vaccine inequity, we should, but in the most serious mutation cases it's been the same class of patients making multiple attempts to defeat the virus which gives the virus a lot of opportunities to evolve and evade multiple standard natural immune responses.

    As you say, quite an interesting ethical issue.
    It really is. And it's one I wasn't aware of. Not a nice thought at all. Still, the other point, the global dimension to this remains very valid imo.

    There was a famous ad years ago ("for Mash get Smash") that featured very intellectually advanced aliens observing us earthlings and laughing fondly at our absurd behaviours.

    When considering the 'big picture' vaccination profile for this global pandemic, how in some places there's heated debate about which of the many available flavours is best for 3rd and 4th jabs, and how quickly they should happen, should children be given one, etc etc, when in other places they haven't been able to hardly get started on a 1st jab for the most vulnerable, I often think of that advert.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SAbJjktk7E
    able to hardly get started on a 1st jab for the most vulnerable

    The very poorest places like the Democratic Republic of Congo have more to worry about than Covid tbh.
    A different issue. All I'm pointing out is that the vaccine to fight this global pandemic has been distributed based not on where it would do the most good but on ability to pay. This will prolong it. It's inefficient.
  • Seems a better gig for Nandy. Her northern credentials were wasted on Foreign Affairs.
    I cannot see what anyone finds impressive about her. Seems a complete lightweight to me.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 56,564
    Quite funny that the situation is virtually unchanged wrt a year ago.
This discussion has been closed.