Speaking of HS2, has anyone else been to Euston recently? I was there last week and it's currently the grottiest railway station I think I've ever been to: eclipsing anything in Asia. The loos are absolutely disgusting.
I only hope this is because of HS2 development? Does anyone know? The fact that it doesn't really link properly to King's Cross-St Pancras is also one of the more bizarre aspects of HS2.
The original Euston fell victim to post-war planning vandalism.
Wow. Thank you for this. What a stunning station it was
That is extraordinary. Which idiot pulled this down? A disastrous decision.
Just imagine it at rush hour. It wouldn't be a pretty sight!
It would be a hell of a lot prettier than the current Euston at rush hour!
It doesn't look to be able to cope with 100k per day.
Pre WW1 France was not, civilisationally, unlike pre WW1 Britain. Pre WW1 Germany was, from the perspective of the 21st century west, a rather darker and more primitive place. I think. Others may be better informed.
Dunno about that, there’s a case to be made that pre WWI France was the most institutionally antisemtic country in Western Europe, and therefore open to a Gallic final solution. Their enthusiastic embrace of the German version doesn’t really contradict that hypothesis.
'Of the 340,000 Jews living in metropolitan/continental France in 1940, more than 75,000 were deported to death camps, where about 72,500 were murdered. The government of Vichy France and the French police organized and implemented the roundups of Jews.'
The fact that French state organised the round up and transportation of 72,500 Jews to their murders implies a certain ease with the process, no?
No. For a start 'a certain ease with the process' would be the Netherlands, who sent off 102,000 of their c.140,000 Jews to their deaths, or Greece, where c.60,000 of c.70,000 were killed - not France, a country with one of the lowest death rates in Europe. Secondly, as the linked page explained, and which you totally read before responding to me, "In the occupied zone, the French police were effectively controlled by the German authorities... [who] took increasing charge of the persecution of Jews, while the Vichy authorities were forced towards a more sensitive approach by public opinion." Neither of these suggests "ease," let alone the "enthusiasm" you originally claimed.
Thirdly, you said the French "enthusiastically embraced" the Final Solution - the Final Solution, of course, being genocide not deportatation. But once again, as the linked page (which you totally read before responding to me) says: 'At the time, it was announced that the Reich had created a homeland for Jews somewhere in Eastern Europe, to which all of the Jews of Europe would be "resettled", and was portrayed as a utopia. In the spring of 1942, the claim that "resettlement in the East" meant going to the mysterious Jewish homeland in Eastern Europe was widely believed in France, even by most Jews'.
So the French didn't understand the purpose of the deportations, and even so did them half-heartedly and worse than many other nations in Europe. The real question is why you're so eager to play down the historical specificity of the Holocaust: it seems odd that after nearly a century Scottish Nationalists are still carrying water for the Nazis.
Golly, light blue fuse paper and stand back from a word vomit.
Especially as those wartime informants were lying - as was soon realised: Mr Donaldson was quickly released. As that very report stresses. Unlike his Tory opposite number Mr Ramsay.
Independent carrying stories of major salami slicing, which will kill quite a few of the benefits. Including killing the Nottm/Derby station, and putting chunks of it on existing tracks.
Is it true? Problem I have is that the Indy is not reliable.
There seems to be a lot of issues round the eastern leg where they seem to have missed the fact, a train route isn't much use if it doesn't stop at important towns / cities on the route.
Leeds - Sheffield - Nottingham / Derby - all add millions of potential customers to the route.
The reality is that for reasons unknown they seem to want to save costs without thinking through the consequences of those cuts.
They seem to keep removing major cities - Nottingham being the latest one. They should just get it done - properly. Including linking to HS1 and the continent.
How much value is there to linking it to the continent?
I would hazard a guess that a train from Manchester to Paris would cost much more than a flight.
At a fraction of the carbon emissions. Also, a nicer experience and city centre to city centre. Look at how Eurostar has removed the demand for the London-Paris air route.
Probably at absolutely zero difference to carbon emissions would be my guess. And taking hours longer than a direct flight.
The idea we can reduce emissions by not flying is pathetic. The drop in consumption will be negligible and won't be matched by the rest of the world and won't take us to zero emissions.
The ONLY way to reach net zero is to have it so that flights etc generate zero emissions. There are multiple companies working on this and I expect they'll have success long before HS2 finishes construction.
Would it take hours longer once you have factored in the ludicrous faffing about involved in flying? Show me your working.
Take London to Glasgow – the Campaign for Better Transport recently ran a 'race' between plane and train, city centre to city centre. The train took just two minutes more (i.e. the train person arrived just two minutes after the plane competitor). The carbon emissions on the train were 1/6th of the plane. And there was far less faffing around.
Again the only way to get to net zero is to have net zero aviation. So emissions are not a factor, it will be zero vs zero.
You sound like someone ten years ago saying we shouldn't have roads because cars emit emissions - except that the future is emission-free cars.
Yes two minutes sounds about right London to Glasgow, but Manchester to Paris via London is a further distance isn't it? The further the distance, the better aviation and the less of an issue the aviation faf is.
There's not a huge amount in it, distance wise. And remember my OP was about direct high-speed services Manchester-Paris – London to Glasgow is not high speed!
My estimate is that a high speed Manchester to Paris route would be very competitive indeed with the air route.
I can't imagine there'd be any direct routes that didn't stop in London, since it needs to travel that way anyway its just going to stop there.
And how much would this train ticket cost versus a flight doing the same route? Once you recognise that both have zero emissions.
'Just going to stop there' = terminate at a station which isn't even linked with HS1. So sod off and get out and walk with your luggage, every singine one of you, every single train.
One might think that it was designed by Londoners who assume everyone wants to go to or from London. Why get all upset about knocking a few buildings down in Camden to make a direct link? Look what is happeniong all along the railway northwards ...?!
I've mentioned this before, but I think the bigger issue was that they didn't want to build customs/passport control at Birmingham, Manchester, etc.
Speaking of HS2, has anyone else been to Euston recently? I was there last week and it's currently the grottiest railway station I think I've ever been to: eclipsing anything in Asia. The loos are absolutely disgusting.
I only hope this is because of HS2 development? Does anyone know? The fact that it doesn't really link properly to King's Cross-St Pancras is also one of the more bizarre aspects of HS2.
It’s due for demolition quite soon as part of HS2. So everyone there has basically given up. It is indeed horrid. That whole corner of central north London is now roiled by HS2. An eerie echo of the first enormous railway cuttings, in the same place, witnessed and chronicled by Dickens
"That this House approves Her Majesty's Government's decision of principle to join the European Communities on the basis of the arrangements which have been negotiated."
Independent carrying stories of major salami slicing, which will kill quite a few of the benefits. Including killing the Nottm/Derby station, and putting chunks of it on existing tracks.
Is it true? Problem I have is that the Indy is not reliable.
There seems to be a lot of issues round the eastern leg where they seem to have missed the fact, a train route isn't much use if it doesn't stop at important towns / cities on the route.
Leeds - Sheffield - Nottingham / Derby - all add millions of potential customers to the route.
The reality is that for reasons unknown they seem to want to save costs without thinking through the consequences of those cuts.
They seem to keep removing major cities - Nottingham being the latest one. They should just get it done - properly. Including linking to HS1 and the continent.
How much value is there to linking it to the continent?
I would hazard a guess that a train from Manchester to Paris would cost much more than a flight.
At a fraction of the carbon emissions. Also, a nicer experience and city centre to city centre. Look at how Eurostar has removed the demand for the London-Paris air route.
Probably at absolutely zero difference to carbon emissions would be my guess. And taking hours longer than a direct flight.
The idea we can reduce emissions by not flying is pathetic. The drop in consumption will be negligible and won't be matched by the rest of the world and won't take us to zero emissions.
The ONLY way to reach net zero is to have it so that flights etc generate zero emissions. There are multiple companies working on this and I expect they'll have success long before HS2 finishes construction.
Would it take hours longer once you have factored in the ludicrous faffing about involved in flying? Show me your working.
Take London to Glasgow – the Campaign for Better Transport recently ran a 'race' between plane and train, city centre to city centre. The train took just two minutes more (i.e. the train person arrived just two minutes after the plane competitor). The carbon emissions on the train were 1/6th of the plane. And there was far less faffing around.
Again the only way to get to net zero is to have net zero aviation. So emissions are not a factor, it will be zero vs zero.
You sound like someone ten years ago saying we shouldn't have roads because cars emit emissions - except that the future is emission-free cars.
Yes two minutes sounds about right London to Glasgow, but Manchester to Paris via London is a further distance isn't it? The further the distance, the better aviation and the less of an issue the aviation faf is.
There's not a huge amount in it, distance wise. And remember my OP was about direct high-speed services Manchester-Paris – London to Glasgow is not high speed!
My estimate is that a high speed Manchester to Paris route would be very competitive indeed with the air route.
I can't imagine there'd be any direct routes that didn't stop in London, since it needs to travel that way anyway its just going to stop there.
And how much would this train ticket cost versus a flight doing the same route? Once you recognise that both have zero emissions.
'Just going to stop there' = terminate at a station which isn't even linked with HS1. So sod off and get out and walk with your luggage, every singine one of you, every single train.
One might think that it was designed by Londoners who assume everyone wants to go to or from London. Why get all upset about knocking a few buildings down in Camden to make a direct link? Look what is happeniong all along the railway northwards ...?!
I've mentioned this before, but I think the bigger issue was that they didn't want to build customs/passport control at Birmingham, Manchester, etc.
We should just join Schengen and the problem goes away.
Independent carrying stories of major salami slicing, which will kill quite a few of the benefits. Including killing the Nottm/Derby station, and putting chunks of it on existing tracks.
Is it true? Problem I have is that the Indy is not reliable.
There seems to be a lot of issues round the eastern leg where they seem to have missed the fact, a train route isn't much use if it doesn't stop at important towns / cities on the route.
Leeds - Sheffield - Nottingham / Derby - all add millions of potential customers to the route.
The reality is that for reasons unknown they seem to want to save costs without thinking through the consequences of those cuts.
They seem to keep removing major cities - Nottingham being the latest one. They should just get it done - properly. Including linking to HS1 and the continent.
How much value is there to linking it to the continent?
I would hazard a guess that a train from Manchester to Paris would cost much more than a flight.
At a fraction of the carbon emissions. Also, a nicer experience and city centre to city centre. Look at how Eurostar has removed the demand for the London-Paris air route.
Probably at absolutely zero difference to carbon emissions would be my guess. And taking hours longer than a direct flight.
The idea we can reduce emissions by not flying is pathetic. The drop in consumption will be negligible and won't be matched by the rest of the world and won't take us to zero emissions.
The ONLY way to reach net zero is to have it so that flights etc generate zero emissions. There are multiple companies working on this and I expect they'll have success long before HS2 finishes construction.
Would it take hours longer once you have factored in the ludicrous faffing about involved in flying? Show me your working.
Take London to Glasgow – the Campaign for Better Transport recently ran a 'race' between plane and train, city centre to city centre. The train took just two minutes more (i.e. the train person arrived just two minutes after the plane competitor). The carbon emissions on the train were 1/6th of the plane. And there was far less faffing around.
Again the only way to get to net zero is to have net zero aviation. So emissions are not a factor, it will be zero vs zero.
You sound like someone ten years ago saying we shouldn't have roads because cars emit emissions - except that the future is emission-free cars.
Yes two minutes sounds about right London to Glasgow, but Manchester to Paris via London is a further distance isn't it? The further the distance, the better aviation and the less of an issue the aviation faf is.
There's not a huge amount in it, distance wise. And remember my OP was about direct high-speed services Manchester-Paris – London to Glasgow is not high speed!
My estimate is that a high speed Manchester to Paris route would be very competitive indeed with the air route.
I can't imagine there'd be any direct routes that didn't stop in London, since it needs to travel that way anyway its just going to stop there.
And how much would this train ticket cost versus a flight doing the same route? Once you recognise that both have zero emissions.
'Just going to stop there' = terminate at a station which isn't even linked with HS1. So sod off and get out and walk with your luggage, every singine one of you, every single train.
One might think that it was designed by Londoners who assume everyone wants to go to or from London. Why get all upset about knocking a few buildings down in Camden to make a direct link? Look what is happeniong all along the railway northwards ...?!
I've mentioned this before, but I think the bigger issue was that they didn't want to build customs/passport control at Birmingham, Manchester, etc.
We did discuss this; but I suspect that was simply an excuse for some London black holery, plus the Mancs and Brummies evidently aren't seen as first class folk. And that doesn't in itself justify not having a direct line.
It's alll very well the adulation of Messrs Brunel and Stephenson but one thing they wouldn't (and in Stephenson's and Locke's case didn't) blench at was sending the navvies, the dozers of that day, into Camden.
Independent carrying stories of major salami slicing, which will kill quite a few of the benefits. Including killing the Nottm/Derby station, and putting chunks of it on existing tracks.
Is it true? Problem I have is that the Indy is not reliable.
There seems to be a lot of issues round the eastern leg where they seem to have missed the fact, a train route isn't much use if it doesn't stop at important towns / cities on the route.
Leeds - Sheffield - Nottingham / Derby - all add millions of potential customers to the route.
The reality is that for reasons unknown they seem to want to save costs without thinking through the consequences of those cuts.
They seem to keep removing major cities - Nottingham being the latest one. They should just get it done - properly. Including linking to HS1 and the continent.
How much value is there to linking it to the continent?
I would hazard a guess that a train from Manchester to Paris would cost much more than a flight.
At a fraction of the carbon emissions. Also, a nicer experience and city centre to city centre. Look at how Eurostar has removed the demand for the London-Paris air route.
Probably at absolutely zero difference to carbon emissions would be my guess. And taking hours longer than a direct flight.
The idea we can reduce emissions by not flying is pathetic. The drop in consumption will be negligible and won't be matched by the rest of the world and won't take us to zero emissions.
The ONLY way to reach net zero is to have it so that flights etc generate zero emissions. There are multiple companies working on this and I expect they'll have success long before HS2 finishes construction.
Would it take hours longer once you have factored in the ludicrous faffing about involved in flying? Show me your working.
Take London to Glasgow – the Campaign for Better Transport recently ran a 'race' between plane and train, city centre to city centre. The train took just two minutes more (i.e. the train person arrived just two minutes after the plane competitor). The carbon emissions on the train were 1/6th of the plane. And there was far less faffing around.
Again the only way to get to net zero is to have net zero aviation. So emissions are not a factor, it will be zero vs zero.
You sound like someone ten years ago saying we shouldn't have roads because cars emit emissions - except that the future is emission-free cars.
Yes two minutes sounds about right London to Glasgow, but Manchester to Paris via London is a further distance isn't it? The further the distance, the better aviation and the less of an issue the aviation faf is.
There's not a huge amount in it, distance wise. And remember my OP was about direct high-speed services Manchester-Paris – London to Glasgow is not high speed!
My estimate is that a high speed Manchester to Paris route would be very competitive indeed with the air route.
I can't imagine there'd be any direct routes that didn't stop in London, since it needs to travel that way anyway its just going to stop there.
And how much would this train ticket cost versus a flight doing the same route? Once you recognise that both have zero emissions.
'Just going to stop there' = terminate at a station which isn't even linked with HS1. So sod off and get out and walk with your luggage, every single one of you, every single train.
One might think that it was designed by Londoners who assume everyone wants to go to or from London. Why get all upset about knocking a few buildings down in Camden to make a direct link? Look what is happeniong all along the railway northwards ...?!
It meant 15 years of turmoil and misery for Camden/Primrose Hill, for about 4 through trains a day. With passport issues. And at enormous cost
Luckily the prime minister’s father and brother both live in the area (along with lots of other vocal notables) so it was crushed. Suck it up, Sheffield
Speaking of HS2, has anyone else been to Euston recently? I was there last week and it's currently the grottiest railway station I think I've ever been to: eclipsing anything in Asia. The loos are absolutely disgusting.
I only hope this is because of HS2 development? Does anyone know? The fact that it doesn't really link properly to King's Cross-St Pancras is also one of the more bizarre aspects of HS2.
It’s due for demolition quite soon as part of HS2. So everyone there has basically given up. It is indeed horrid. That whole corner of central north London is now roiled by HS2. An eerie echo of the first enormous railway cuttings, in the same place, witnessed and chronicled by Dickens
Pre WW1 France was not, civilisationally, unlike pre WW1 Britain. Pre WW1 Germany was, from the perspective of the 21st century west, a rather darker and more primitive place. I think. Others may be better informed.
Dunno about that, there’s a case to be made that pre WWI France was the most institutionally antisemtic country in Western Europe, and therefore open to a Gallic final solution. Their enthusiastic embrace of the German version doesn’t really contradict that hypothesis.
'Of the 340,000 Jews living in metropolitan/continental France in 1940, more than 75,000 were deported to death camps, where about 72,500 were murdered. The government of Vichy France and the French police organized and implemented the roundups of Jews.'
The fact that French state organised the round up and transportation of 72,500 Jews to their murders implies a certain ease with the process, no?
No. For a start 'a certain ease with the process' would be the Netherlands, who sent off 102,000 of their c.140,000 Jews to their deaths, or Greece, where c.60,000 of c.70,000 were killed - not France, a country with one of the lowest death rates in Europe. Secondly, as the linked page explained, and which you totally read before responding to me, "In the occupied zone, the French police were effectively controlled by the German authorities... [who] took increasing charge of the persecution of Jews, while the Vichy authorities were forced towards a more sensitive approach by public opinion." Neither of these suggests "ease," let alone the "enthusiasm" you originally claimed.
Thirdly, you said the French "enthusiastically embraced" the Final Solution - the Final Solution, of course, being genocide not deportatation. But once again, as the linked page (which you totally read before responding to me) says: 'At the time, it was announced that the Reich had created a homeland for Jews somewhere in Eastern Europe, to which all of the Jews of Europe would be "resettled", and was portrayed as a utopia. In the spring of 1942, the claim that "resettlement in the East" meant going to the mysterious Jewish homeland in Eastern Europe was widely believed in France, even by most Jews'.
So the French didn't understand the purpose of the deportations, and even so did them half-heartedly and worse than many other nations in Europe. The real question is why you're so eager to play down the historical specificity of the Holocaust: it seems odd that after nearly a century Scottish Nationalists are still carrying water for the Nazis.
Golly, light blue fuse paper and stand back from a word vomit.
Especially as those wartime informants were lying - as was soon realised: Mr Donaldson was quickly released. As that very report stresses. Unlike his Tory opposite number Mr Ramsay.
Reactionaries and their anti EssEnnPee tropes are not often parted. He'll be bleating on about Siol nan Gaidheal afore ye know it.
Sorry independistas, they're upgrading a roundabout in Falkirk. It's over.
Seems a shame to redevelop Inverness Castle, too. Do the locals get any say before it's bulldozed and flats are built? Seems to be taking the 'levelling' part a bit too far!
It's just had a shitload of development including a viewpoint from its highest tower Not sure what else they want done, a roller coaster or water slide maybe?
Speaking of HS2, has anyone else been to Euston recently? I was there last week and it's currently the grottiest railway station I think I've ever been to: eclipsing anything in Asia. The loos are absolutely disgusting.
I only hope this is because of HS2 development? Does anyone know? The fact that it doesn't really link properly to King's Cross-St Pancras is also one of the more bizarre aspects of HS2.
It’s due for demolition quite soon as part of HS2. So everyone there has basically given up. It is indeed horrid. That whole corner of central north London is now roiled by HS2. An eerie echo of the first enormous railway cuttings, in the same place, witnessed and chronicled by Dickens
Independent carrying stories of major salami slicing, which will kill quite a few of the benefits. Including killing the Nottm/Derby station, and putting chunks of it on existing tracks.
Is it true? Problem I have is that the Indy is not reliable.
There seems to be a lot of issues round the eastern leg where they seem to have missed the fact, a train route isn't much use if it doesn't stop at important towns / cities on the route.
Leeds - Sheffield - Nottingham / Derby - all add millions of potential customers to the route.
The reality is that for reasons unknown they seem to want to save costs without thinking through the consequences of those cuts.
They seem to keep removing major cities - Nottingham being the latest one. They should just get it done - properly. Including linking to HS1 and the continent.
Nottingham was never on the line, it was always a Parkway wasn't it, as was Sheffield originally. I didn't have a problem with that, the Meadowhall stop suited me as it would a load of folk from out of town, but what you have to have in that case is proper rapid transit shuttle to the centre and of a suitable grade that it's almost as if you haven't left HS2. And Supertram taking 15-20 minutes to trundle into the main Midland station isn't quite that mark.
The last plans I saw for that were for a 10 minute rail shuttle to the centre of Nottm and Derby.
The 'parkway' station for Notts was going to be at Toton, kind of mid way between Nottm and Derby and linked by trams.
Speaking of HS2, has anyone else been to Euston recently? I was there last week and it's currently the grottiest railway station I think I've ever been to: eclipsing anything in Asia. The loos are absolutely disgusting.
I only hope this is because of HS2 development? Does anyone know? The fact that it doesn't really link properly to King's Cross-St Pancras is also one of the more bizarre aspects of HS2.
It’s due for demolition quite soon as part of HS2. So everyone there has basically given up. It is indeed horrid. That whole corner of central north London is now roiled by HS2. An eerie echo of the first enormous railway cuttings, in the same place, witnessed and chronicled by Dickens
Independent carrying stories of major salami slicing, which will kill quite a few of the benefits. Including killing the Nottm/Derby station, and putting chunks of it on existing tracks.
Is it true? Problem I have is that the Indy is not reliable.
There seems to be a lot of issues round the eastern leg where they seem to have missed the fact, a train route isn't much use if it doesn't stop at important towns / cities on the route.
Leeds - Sheffield - Nottingham / Derby - all add millions of potential customers to the route.
The reality is that for reasons unknown they seem to want to save costs without thinking through the consequences of those cuts.
They seem to keep removing major cities - Nottingham being the latest one. They should just get it done - properly. Including linking to HS1 and the continent.
How much value is there to linking it to the continent?
I would hazard a guess that a train from Manchester to Paris would cost much more than a flight.
At a fraction of the carbon emissions. Also, a nicer experience and city centre to city centre. Look at how Eurostar has removed the demand for the London-Paris air route.
Probably at absolutely zero difference to carbon emissions would be my guess. And taking hours longer than a direct flight.
The idea we can reduce emissions by not flying is pathetic. The drop in consumption will be negligible and won't be matched by the rest of the world and won't take us to zero emissions.
The ONLY way to reach net zero is to have it so that flights etc generate zero emissions. There are multiple companies working on this and I expect they'll have success long before HS2 finishes construction.
Would it take hours longer once you have factored in the ludicrous faffing about involved in flying? Show me your working.
Take London to Glasgow – the Campaign for Better Transport recently ran a 'race' between plane and train, city centre to city centre. The train took just two minutes more (i.e. the train person arrived just two minutes after the plane competitor). The carbon emissions on the train were 1/6th of the plane. And there was far less faffing around.
Again the only way to get to net zero is to have net zero aviation. So emissions are not a factor, it will be zero vs zero.
You sound like someone ten years ago saying we shouldn't have roads because cars emit emissions - except that the future is emission-free cars.
Yes two minutes sounds about right London to Glasgow, but Manchester to Paris via London is a further distance isn't it? The further the distance, the better aviation and the less of an issue the aviation faf is.
There's not a huge amount in it, distance wise. And remember my OP was about direct high-speed services Manchester-Paris – London to Glasgow is not high speed!
My estimate is that a high speed Manchester to Paris route would be very competitive indeed with the air route.
I can't imagine there'd be any direct routes that didn't stop in London, since it needs to travel that way anyway its just going to stop there.
And how much would this train ticket cost versus a flight doing the same route? Once you recognise that both have zero emissions.
'Just going to stop there' = terminate at a station which isn't even linked with HS1. So sod off and get out and walk with your luggage, every singine one of you, every single train.
One might think that it was designed by Londoners who assume everyone wants to go to or from London. Why get all upset about knocking a few buildings down in Camden to make a direct link? Look what is happeniong all along the railway northwards ...?!
I've mentioned this before, but I think the bigger issue was that they didn't want to build customs/passport control at Birmingham, Manchester, etc.
We should just join Schengen and the problem goes away.
Or do passport checks on the train itself – didn't that use to be how they did it in continental Europe?
Sorry independistas, they're upgrading a roundabout in Falkirk. It's over.
Seems a shame to redevelop Inverness Castle, too. Do the locals get any say before it's bulldozed and flats are built? Seems to be taking the 'levelling' part a bit too far!
It's just had a shitload of development including a viewpoint from its highest tower Not sure what else they want done, a roller coaster or water slide maybe?
Giant union flag on the walls?
The xxxl flag pole mentioned previously may cover that option, though it does get very blowy on the Moray Firth.
Speaking of HS2, has anyone else been to Euston recently? I was there last week and it's currently the grottiest railway station I think I've ever been to: eclipsing anything in Asia. The loos are absolutely disgusting.
I only hope this is because of HS2 development? Does anyone know? The fact that it doesn't really link properly to King's Cross-St Pancras is also one of the more bizarre aspects of HS2.
It's a shocking decision to fail to link up the lines – a very British fudge.
(and you are right about Euston – horrible station, the worst of the major London termini by far)
That's because the cost of linking it to St Pancras was another few £bn which was a step too far.
Speaking of HS2, has anyone else been to Euston recently? I was there last week and it's currently the grottiest railway station I think I've ever been to: eclipsing anything in Asia. The loos are absolutely disgusting.
I only hope this is because of HS2 development? Does anyone know? The fact that it doesn't really link properly to King's Cross-St Pancras is also one of the more bizarre aspects of HS2.
It’s due for demolition quite soon as part of HS2. So everyone there has basically given up. It is indeed horrid. That whole corner of central north London is now roiled by HS2. An eerie echo of the first enormous railway cuttings, in the same place, witnessed and chronicled by Dickens
My god. I’ve looked at that famous image hundreds of times. Highly evocative
I’ve just realized it depicts my flat. That’s where I live. Lol
You've obviously got a residential rather than racial memory of the chaos of that time.
The Edinboro Castle pub - with its excellent if noisy beer garden - is directly opposite my home. So-named, of course, for the Scottish navvies who drank there (it is said). Cf the Dublin Castle just down Parkway, and so forth
Speaking of HS2, has anyone else been to Euston recently? I was there last week and it's currently the grottiest railway station I think I've ever been to: eclipsing anything in Asia. The loos are absolutely disgusting.
I only hope this is because of HS2 development? Does anyone know? The fact that it doesn't really link properly to King's Cross-St Pancras is also one of the more bizarre aspects of HS2.
It’s due for demolition quite soon as part of HS2. So everyone there has basically given up. It is indeed horrid. That whole corner of central north London is now roiled by HS2. An eerie echo of the first enormous railway cuttings, in the same place, witnessed and chronicled by Dickens
Sorry independistas, they're upgrading a roundabout in Falkirk. It's over.
Seems a shame to redevelop Inverness Castle, too. Do the locals get any say before it's bulldozed and flats are built? Seems to be taking the 'levelling' part a bit too far!
It's just had a shitload of development including a viewpoint from its highest tower Not sure what else they want done, a roller coaster or water slide maybe?
Giant union flag on the walls?
Yep, SOP. See this at Queen Elizabeth House [sic] - UKG HQ in Scotland.
Speaking of HS2, has anyone else been to Euston recently? I was there last week and it's currently the grottiest railway station I think I've ever been to: eclipsing anything in Asia. The loos are absolutely disgusting.
I only hope this is because of HS2 development? Does anyone know? The fact that it doesn't really link properly to King's Cross-St Pancras is also one of the more bizarre aspects of HS2.
It’s due for demolition quite soon as part of HS2. So everyone there has basically given up. It is indeed horrid. That whole corner of central north London is now roiled by HS2. An eerie echo of the first enormous railway cuttings, in the same place, witnessed and chronicled by Dickens
My god. I’ve looked at that famous image hundreds of times. Highly evocative
I’ve just realized it depicts my flat. That’s where I live. Lol
You've obviously got a residential rather than racial memory of the chaos of that time.
The Edinboro Castle pub - with its excellent if noisy beer garden - is directly opposite my home. So-named, of course, for the Scottish navvies who drank there (it is said). Cf the Dublin Castle just down Parkway, and so forth
Been past it a few times! My old Camden friend is very clued up on the area - he tells me about such things as the great winding engine houses at the top of the incline into Euston and so on.
"That this House approves Her Majesty's Government's decision of principle to join the European Communities on the basis of the arrangements which have been negotiated."
Sorry independistas, they're upgrading a roundabout in Falkirk. It's over.
Seems a shame to redevelop Inverness Castle, too. Do the locals get any say before it's bulldozed and flats are built? Seems to be taking the 'levelling' part a bit too far!
It's just had a shitload of development including a viewpoint from its highest tower Not sure what else they want done, a roller coaster or water slide maybe?
Giant union flag on the walls?
Yep, SOP. See this at Queen Elizabeth House [sic] - UKG HQ in Scotland.
Pre WW1 France was not, civilisationally, unlike pre WW1 Britain. Pre WW1 Germany was, from the perspective of the 21st century west, a rather darker and more primitive place. I think. Others may be better informed.
Dunno about that, there’s a case to be made that pre WWI France was the most institutionally antisemtic country in Western Europe, and therefore open to a Gallic final solution. Their enthusiastic embrace of the German version doesn’t really contradict that hypothesis.
'Of the 340,000 Jews living in metropolitan/continental France in 1940, more than 75,000 were deported to death camps, where about 72,500 were murdered. The government of Vichy France and the French police organized and implemented the roundups of Jews.'
The fact that French state organised the round up and transportation of 72,500 Jews to their murders implies a certain ease with the process, no?
No. For a start 'a certain ease with the process' would be the Netherlands, who sent off 102,000 of their c.140,000 Jews to their deaths, or Greece, where c.60,000 of c.70,000 were killed - not France, a country with one of the lowest death rates in Europe. Secondly, as the linked page explained, and which you totally read before responding to me, "In the occupied zone, the French police were effectively controlled by the German authorities... [who] took increasing charge of the persecution of Jews, while the Vichy authorities were forced towards a more sensitive approach by public opinion." Neither of these suggests "ease," let alone the "enthusiasm" you originally claimed.
Thirdly, you said the French "enthusiastically embraced" the Final Solution - the Final Solution, of course, being genocide not deportatation. But once again, as the linked page (which you totally read before responding to me) says: 'At the time, it was announced that the Reich had created a homeland for Jews somewhere in Eastern Europe, to which all of the Jews of Europe would be "resettled", and was portrayed as a utopia. In the spring of 1942, the claim that "resettlement in the East" meant going to the mysterious Jewish homeland in Eastern Europe was widely believed in France, even by most Jews'.
So the French didn't understand the purpose of the deportations, and even so did them half-heartedly and worse than many other nations in Europe. The real question is why you're so eager to play down the historical specificity of the Holocaust: it seems odd that after nearly a century Scottish Nationalists are still carrying water for the Nazis.
Golly, light blue fuse paper and stand back from a word vomit.
Speaking of HS2, has anyone else been to Euston recently? I was there last week and it's currently the grottiest railway station I think I've ever been to: eclipsing anything in Asia. The loos are absolutely disgusting.
I only hope this is because of HS2 development? Does anyone know? The fact that it doesn't really link properly to King's Cross-St Pancras is also one of the more bizarre aspects of HS2.
It’s due for demolition quite soon as part of HS2. So everyone there has basically given up. It is indeed horrid. That whole corner of central north London is now roiled by HS2. An eerie echo of the first enormous railway cuttings, in the same place, witnessed and chronicled by Dickens
My god. I’ve looked at that famous image hundreds of times. Highly evocative
I’ve just realized it depicts my flat. That’s where I live. Lol
You've doxxed yourself!
It’s fascinating. That image shows my terrace under construction. 1839. Makes sense. Eg the house on the left has Juliet balconies, the others don’t - yet. Meanwhile whole sections of the terrace are yet to spring up. I never realized they were built at the same time as the railways, but this says so. Would have been pleasant housing for middle ranking railwaymen? Definitely not posh
Like looking at a 200 year old photo of your home. Eerie
Independent carrying stories of major salami slicing, which will kill quite a few of the benefits. Including killing the Nottm/Derby station, and putting chunks of it on existing tracks.
Is it true? Problem I have is that the Indy is not reliable.
There seems to be a lot of issues round the eastern leg where they seem to have missed the fact, a train route isn't much use if it doesn't stop at important towns / cities on the route.
Leeds - Sheffield - Nottingham / Derby - all add millions of potential customers to the route.
The reality is that for reasons unknown they seem to want to save costs without thinking through the consequences of those cuts.
They seem to keep removing major cities - Nottingham being the latest one. They should just get it done - properly. Including linking to HS1 and the continent.
How much value is there to linking it to the continent?
I would hazard a guess that a train from Manchester to Paris would cost much more than a flight.
At a fraction of the carbon emissions. Also, a nicer experience and city centre to city centre. Look at how Eurostar has removed the demand for the London-Paris air route.
Probably at absolutely zero difference to carbon emissions would be my guess. And taking hours longer than a direct flight.
The idea we can reduce emissions by not flying is pathetic. The drop in consumption will be negligible and won't be matched by the rest of the world and won't take us to zero emissions.
The ONLY way to reach net zero is to have it so that flights etc generate zero emissions. There are multiple companies working on this and I expect they'll have success long before HS2 finishes construction.
Would it take hours longer once you have factored in the ludicrous faffing about involved in flying? Show me your working.
Take London to Glasgow – the Campaign for Better Transport recently ran a 'race' between plane and train, city centre to city centre. The train took just two minutes more (i.e. the train person arrived just two minutes after the plane competitor). The carbon emissions on the train were 1/6th of the plane. And there was far less faffing around.
Again the only way to get to net zero is to have net zero aviation. So emissions are not a factor, it will be zero vs zero.
You sound like someone ten years ago saying we shouldn't have roads because cars emit emissions - except that the future is emission-free cars.
Yes two minutes sounds about right London to Glasgow, but Manchester to Paris via London is a further distance isn't it? The further the distance, the better aviation and the less of an issue the aviation faf is.
There's not a huge amount in it, distance wise. And remember my OP was about direct high-speed services Manchester-Paris – London to Glasgow is not high speed!
My estimate is that a high speed Manchester to Paris route would be very competitive indeed with the air route.
I can't imagine there'd be any direct routes that didn't stop in London, since it needs to travel that way anyway its just going to stop there.
And how much would this train ticket cost versus a flight doing the same route? Once you recognise that both have zero emissions.
'Just going to stop there' = terminate at a station which isn't even linked with HS1. So sod off and get out and walk with your luggage, every singine one of you, every single train.
One might think that it was designed by Londoners who assume everyone wants to go to or from London. Why get all upset about knocking a few buildings down in Camden to make a direct link? Look what is happeniong all along the railway northwards ...?!
I've mentioned this before, but I think the bigger issue was that they didn't want to build customs/passport control at Birmingham, Manchester, etc.
We should just join Schengen and the problem goes away.
I wonder how much longer Schengen will exist in its current form?
Whipple said she was unable to hand out a whole-life sentence because Hussein was under 21. She said the usual minimum term would be 37 years for crimes of this severity, but that she had reduced it because of Hussein’s age – he had only turned 18 three weeks before committing the crime – and his autism spectrum disorder diagnosis, which she said could “make you a person who could struggle in prison more than others”.
She decided, however, not to consider evidence of an undiagnosed personality disorder or psychopathy identified in a psychiatric report as a mitigating factor, or to delay sentencing while these were further examined, because Hussein had refused to comply with the evaluation.
Speaking of HS2, has anyone else been to Euston recently? I was there last week and it's currently the grottiest railway station I think I've ever been to: eclipsing anything in Asia. The loos are absolutely disgusting.
I only hope this is because of HS2 development? Does anyone know? The fact that it doesn't really link properly to King's Cross-St Pancras is also one of the more bizarre aspects of HS2.
It's a shocking decision to fail to link up the lines – a very British fudge.
(and you are right about Euston – horrible station, the worst of the major London termini by far)
That's because the cost of linking it to St Pancras was another few £bn which was a step too far.
Speaking of HS2, has anyone else been to Euston recently? I was there last week and it's currently the grottiest railway station I think I've ever been to: eclipsing anything in Asia. The loos are absolutely disgusting.
I only hope this is because of HS2 development? Does anyone know? The fact that it doesn't really link properly to King's Cross-St Pancras is also one of the more bizarre aspects of HS2.
It’s due for demolition quite soon as part of HS2. So everyone there has basically given up. It is indeed horrid. That whole corner of central north London is now roiled by HS2. An eerie echo of the first enormous railway cuttings, in the same place, witnessed and chronicled by Dickens
My god. I’ve looked at that famous image hundreds of times. Highly evocative
I’ve just realized it depicts my flat. That’s where I live. Lol
You've doxxed yourself!
It’s fascinating. That image shows my terrace under construction. 1839. Makes sense. Eg the house on the left has Juliet balconies, the others don’t - yet. Meanwhile whole sections of the terrace are yet to spring up. I never realized they were built at the same time as the railways, but this says so. Would have been pleasant housing for middle ranking railwaymen? Definitely not posh
Like looking at a 200 year old photo of your home. Eerie
Yet think of the smoke and smuts (growing much worse later on as traffic developed, of course). My friend commented that property values went up for houses along the line when BR shifted from steam locos to diesel and increasingly to leccy in the 1960s onwards.
Speaking of HS2, has anyone else been to Euston recently? I was there last week and it's currently the grottiest railway station I think I've ever been to: eclipsing anything in Asia. The loos are absolutely disgusting.
I only hope this is because of HS2 development? Does anyone know? The fact that it doesn't really link properly to King's Cross-St Pancras is also one of the more bizarre aspects of HS2.
It’s due for demolition quite soon as part of HS2. So everyone there has basically given up. It is indeed horrid. That whole corner of central north London is now roiled by HS2. An eerie echo of the first enormous railway cuttings, in the same place, witnessed and chronicled by Dickens
My god. I’ve looked at that famous image hundreds of times. Highly evocative
I’ve just realized it depicts my flat. That’s where I live. Lol
You've obviously got a residential rather than racial memory of the chaos of that time.
The Edinboro Castle pub - with its excellent if noisy beer garden - is directly opposite my home. So-named, of course, for the Scottish navvies who drank there (it is said). Cf the Dublin Castle just down Parkway, and so forth
My understanding is there is a Castle pub for every home nation in NW1. The Pembroke Castle is for Wales apparently (although I’ve never visited that one) and the Windsor Castle for England. This article suggests it was to stop railwaymen of different nationalities fighting each other after a few jars.
"That this House approves Her Majesty's Government's decision of principle to join the European Communities on the basis of the arrangements which have been negotiated."
One of the MPs who spoke that day was Colonel Sir Tufton Beamish, MP for Lewes.
As if one Tufton Beamish weren't enough, he was preceded as MP for Lewes by his father, Rear-Admiral Tufton Beamish.
His daughter, Claudia, became a Labour member of the Scottish Parliament.
I seem to dimly recall that Sir Tufton was a notable rebel against the poll tax, when in the Lords.
An interesting example of a cross-partisan political family. Another one is the Bottomleys. Former Labour treasury minister Kitty Ussher is the niece of Peter and Virginia Bottomley.
Speaking of HS2, has anyone else been to Euston recently? I was there last week and it's currently the grottiest railway station I think I've ever been to: eclipsing anything in Asia. The loos are absolutely disgusting.
I only hope this is because of HS2 development? Does anyone know? The fact that it doesn't really link properly to King's Cross-St Pancras is also one of the more bizarre aspects of HS2.
It’s due for demolition quite soon as part of HS2. So everyone there has basically given up. It is indeed horrid. That whole corner of central north London is now roiled by HS2. An eerie echo of the first enormous railway cuttings, in the same place, witnessed and chronicled by Dickens
My god. I’ve looked at that famous image hundreds of times. Highly evocative
I’ve just realized it depicts my flat. That’s where I live. Lol
You've obviously got a residential rather than racial memory of the chaos of that time.
The Edinboro Castle pub - with its excellent if noisy beer garden - is directly opposite my home. So-named, of course, for the Scottish navvies who drank there (it is said). Cf the Dublin Castle just down Parkway, and so forth
Been past it a few times! My old Camden friend is very clued up on the area - he tells me about such things as the great winding engine houses at the top of the incline into Euston and so on.
Great boozer on a sunny summer Saturday. Absolutely vast beer garden.
Speaking of HS2, has anyone else been to Euston recently? I was there last week and it's currently the grottiest railway station I think I've ever been to: eclipsing anything in Asia. The loos are absolutely disgusting.
I only hope this is because of HS2 development? Does anyone know? The fact that it doesn't really link properly to King's Cross-St Pancras is also one of the more bizarre aspects of HS2.
It’s due for demolition quite soon as part of HS2. So everyone there has basically given up. It is indeed horrid. That whole corner of central north London is now roiled by HS2. An eerie echo of the first enormous railway cuttings, in the same place, witnessed and chronicled by Dickens
My god. I’ve looked at that famous image hundreds of times. Highly evocative
I’ve just realized it depicts my flat. That’s where I live. Lol
You've doxxed yourself!
It’s fascinating. That image shows my terrace under construction. 1839. Makes sense. Eg the house on the left has Juliet balconies, the others don’t - yet. Meanwhile whole sections of the terrace are yet to spring up. I never realized they were built at the same time as the railways, but this says so. Would have been pleasant housing for middle ranking railwaymen? Definitely not posh
Like looking at a 200 year old photo of your home. Eerie
Yet think of the smoke and smuts (growing much worse later on as traffic developed, of course). My friend commented that property values went up for houses along the line when they shifted from steam to diesel and increasingly to leccy in the 1960s onwards.
Absolutely. As late as the 60s primrose hill was nicknamed ‘smoke town’ because of the railway pollution. That’s how poets like Plath could afford to live there. The housing was beautiful but the neighbourhood was disregarded. Dylan Thomas lived in a basement on my street and loathed the smut and smog
A while ago I noticed a house from the terrace that was the inspiration for Bob Cratchitt’s house - in A Christmas Carol - was basically for sale. We know the location because Dickens lived there as a boy. Bayham Street.
This house was identical to Dickens’ and the one described as Cratchitt’s. Dickens meant it as the epitome of upper working class impoverishment. Cost today? - £1.5m
As a footnote to my last remark, politicians are irrelevant. I haven't watched or read anything about the Budget and it won't have any impact on my life.
Zuckerberg, Bezos, Branson, Musk, Arnault, Barclay brothers, Murdoch, Usmanov, social media influencers and bot controllers etc. etc. ... these are the power brokers in today's world. Politicians in the UK? Petty pawns in a minor game.
Branson is a complete nobody. I doubt he's in the top 10,000 wealthiest people on the planet. With most of his businesses, he only owns a tiny chunk and extracts a bit of value through licensing the Virgin name.
David Gauke, part of the group of pro EU politicians who failed to win the case to remain and just cannot concede they lost
Maybe if they had made a better case they could have won it
Yes, but back to the point he raises. The official numbers show the cost of Brexit being double the cost of Covid. We need tax rises and they're blaming Covid. Logically we will need bigger tax rises and they won't blame Brexit...
It's a fallacious argument. The reason covid implies tax rises is because of the amount of government borrowing. Any direct costs of Brexit are nothing compared to furlough, etc.
Brexit is lost revenue. Furlough is lost revenue *and* increased cost.
Brexit is mostly projected, but not all. Exports to EU are already failing to follow Rest of World performance.
We decided to Brexit. W
This is a very loose comment.
'We' was 52% against 48%, in other words hardly deserving of your all-inclusive pronoun, but in some ways the bigger issue is that we didn't vote for Brexit. We didn't really vote for anything. No one know what the hell we were voting for. The devil in the detail only emerged later and I guarantee you that if we'd known the monster we were about to unleash the country would not have voted for it.
What makes you think I disagree on this point?
I’ve said many times that Cameron was suicidally complacent about his EU referendum [...]
It would have roiled and split the Leave campaign and Cameron would have romped home.
Instead he loftily assumed he was cruising to victory, because he is an arrogant Etonian who fatally over-estimated his own abilities. Because that’s what Eton does. It fills you with self assurance. Often unjustified
It's also because 'he' had just won Indyref, even causing The Queen to purr with pleasure, and thus carried all his self-preening arrogance into the Brexit vote.
Brexit is, without question, the greatest mistake Britain as a nation has made. It eclipses all other colonial, military and foreign policy errors combined.
Thank goodness its pushed mass slavery off the top spot!
And World War One. People always overstate the horror of that error. OK Yes we could have stayed neutral in the Great War, thereby saving a million British lives and a trillion pounds, and probably ensuring we kept the Empire for another century, but what’s that compared to the error of leaving the Customs Union thus adding significant paperwork?
Yeah but WW1 inspired some great poetry and ushered in Expressionism, Surrealism, and Modernism.
Brexit has Farage doing £80-a-pop Cameo shout-outs.
1) If we had stayed out of WWI, the Germans would have won in short order. 2) So, the German Empire, Kaiser etc would have stayed intact 3) Given that the German Empire embraced war as a Good thing, and it had worked twice (1870 and 1914) 4) And that they were planning for WII as part of their planned reparations demands.... 5) The Kaiser Wilhelm instate will probably have a bunch more scientists....
So in about 1940 or so, the highly militaristic German Empire would get some good news about bigger and better bangs. Just in time for the next war.....
Germany winning quickly could also have been a very very good thing = no Hitler, no Nazis, no WW2, probably no Russian Revolution, no communism, no USSR, no Mao, no PRChina, no Cold War
It might have been an unimaginably nicer world and better century, albeit with a stronger Germany dominant in mainland Europe. A price worth paying?
Its a mistake to imagine that the German regime of 1914 -1918 was that much better than the Nazi's. We have this image that the German army was somehow a decent bunch of chaps just happened to be fighting against us, when the reality is the atrocities were there in 1914-18 too. German victory in Eastern Europe would have given a Germanic empire with repressed peoples. Huge economic rapacity for Germany. The German army after 1945 tried to claim it was an honorable institution, but this was whitewashing of the highest order. The army was complicit in everything that happened on the Eastern Front, and behind. The nature of the regime was similar. I'd recommend Keegan's 'Apocalypse' on how 1914 played out.
And there was me thinking the Nazis' Hunger Plan was inspired by the British blockade in the first world war which killed 100s of thousands of German civilians.
I think it was inspired by Hitler's and Goering's desire to eliminate sub-humans.
I wouldn't be putting any money on Reeves as next leader. The voice is dreadful she reminds me a lot of the last leader of the non-liberals. The Mirror lol. Starmer didn't look very ill to me, maybe he has been copying the children, dipping his flow test in some fruit juice. What a farce this testing is and government policy has been based on it. Complete shambles, top level politics has never been in a worse state.
Independent carrying stories of major salami slicing, which will kill quite a few of the benefits. Including killing the Nottm/Derby station, and putting chunks of it on existing tracks.
Is it true? Problem I have is that the Indy is not reliable.
There seems to be a lot of issues round the eastern leg where they seem to have missed the fact, a train route isn't much use if it doesn't stop at important towns / cities on the route.
Leeds - Sheffield - Nottingham / Derby - all add millions of potential customers to the route.
The reality is that for reasons unknown they seem to want to save costs without thinking through the consequences of those cuts.
They seem to keep removing major cities - Nottingham being the latest one. They should just get it done - properly. Including linking to HS1 and the continent.
How much value is there to linking it to the continent?
I would hazard a guess that a train from Manchester to Paris would cost much more than a flight.
Outside of London to Paris and Brussels, there aren't many UK-Europe routes that make much sense for regular scheduled services. And I think the problem is more about timing than cost: simply Manchester to Paris is going to take five hours - and that's quite a lot longer than an hour on the plane.
That said, Eurostar did (profitably) provide a couple of other routes through the tunnel - but they were low frequency, niche ones:
- London-to-the Alps, four trains a week during ski season (and a lot of fun they were too) - London-to-Avignion, daily I think, during the summer
The original Euston fell victim to post-war planning vandalism.
There is a great war memorial still there.
I used to work on a contract for Network Rail inside Euston Station, in a portakabin on the old parcels sorting area above the platforms. The station was designed to be fully electrified, so the train shed roof (ceiling) is very low compared to what came before because there would be no need for smoke or diesel fumes to dissipate. Trains heading to unelectrified parts of the network would have an electric loco to somewhere like Crewe, then they would switch it for a diesel, Older readers may remember this,
What they didn't consider was that the railway operators would be privatised and it would be much simpler just to run diesels all the way. So when I was working there if a diesel was sitting idling for half an hour beneath us, the office became very smelly.
Independent carrying stories of major salami slicing, which will kill quite a few of the benefits. Including killing the Nottm/Derby station, and putting chunks of it on existing tracks.
Is it true? Problem I have is that the Indy is not reliable.
There seems to be a lot of issues round the eastern leg where they seem to have missed the fact, a train route isn't much use if it doesn't stop at important towns / cities on the route.
Leeds - Sheffield - Nottingham / Derby - all add millions of potential customers to the route.
The reality is that for reasons unknown they seem to want to save costs without thinking through the consequences of those cuts.
They seem to keep removing major cities - Nottingham being the latest one. They should just get it done - properly. Including linking to HS1 and the continent.
How much value is there to linking it to the continent?
I would hazard a guess that a train from Manchester to Paris would cost much more than a flight.
At a fraction of the carbon emissions. Also, a nicer experience and city centre to city centre. Look at how Eurostar has removed the demand for the London-Paris air route.
Probably at absolutely zero difference to carbon emissions would be my guess. And taking hours longer than a direct flight.
The idea we can reduce emissions by not flying is pathetic. The drop in consumption will be negligible and won't be matched by the rest of the world and won't take us to zero emissions.
The ONLY way to reach net zero is to have it so that flights etc generate zero emissions. There are multiple companies working on this and I expect they'll have success long before HS2 finishes construction.
Would it take hours longer once you have factored in the ludicrous faffing about involved in flying? Show me your working.
Take London to Glasgow – the Campaign for Better Transport recently ran a 'race' between plane and train, city centre to city centre. The train took just two minutes more (i.e. the train person arrived just two minutes after the plane competitor). The carbon emissions on the train were 1/6th of the plane. And there was far less faffing around.
Again the only way to get to net zero is to have net zero aviation. So emissions are not a factor, it will be zero vs zero.
You sound like someone ten years ago saying we shouldn't have roads because cars emit emissions - except that the future is emission-free cars.
Yes two minutes sounds about right London to Glasgow, but Manchester to Paris via London is a further distance isn't it? The further the distance, the better aviation and the less of an issue the aviation faf is.
There's not a huge amount in it, distance wise. And remember my OP was about direct high-speed services Manchester-Paris – London to Glasgow is not high speed!
My estimate is that a high speed Manchester to Paris route would be very competitive indeed with the air route.
I can't imagine there'd be any direct routes that didn't stop in London, since it needs to travel that way anyway its just going to stop there.
And how much would this train ticket cost versus a flight doing the same route? Once you recognise that both have zero emissions.
'Just going to stop there' = terminate at a station which isn't even linked with HS1. So sod off and get out and walk with your luggage, every singine one of you, every single train.
One might think that it was designed by Londoners who assume everyone wants to go to or from London. Why get all upset about knocking a few buildings down in Camden to make a direct link? Look what is happeniong all along the railway northwards ...?!
I've mentioned this before, but I think the bigger issue was that they didn't want to build customs/passport control at Birmingham, Manchester, etc.
We should just join Schengen and the problem goes away.
I wonder how much longer Schengen will exist in its current form?
I would be very sad to see Schengen go. The ability to move around Europe without border checks is a genuine freedom.
(It is also worth noting that Schengen membership is usually more popular in opinion polls than EU membership - hence Switzerland choosing by referendum to join it, even while deeply opposed to EU membership.)
On Topic she is of a similar ilk to SKS only marginally better as a communicator, only radical ideas are be tougher on benefit claimants than the Tories.She is a right wing RLB and I wouldn't vote for her for leader for similar reasons
Pretty useless really but it shows what depths Labour has sunk to and anyone is better than Starmer.
Won't change my vote but Labour would be better making the change.
Anyone is an improvement
Rumour has it Labour have been making anonymous briefings against Angela Rayner while she is on bereavement leave
Independent carrying stories of major salami slicing, which will kill quite a few of the benefits. Including killing the Nottm/Derby station, and putting chunks of it on existing tracks.
Is it true? Problem I have is that the Indy is not reliable.
There seems to be a lot of issues round the eastern leg where they seem to have missed the fact, a train route isn't much use if it doesn't stop at important towns / cities on the route.
Leeds - Sheffield - Nottingham / Derby - all add millions of potential customers to the route.
The reality is that for reasons unknown they seem to want to save costs without thinking through the consequences of those cuts.
They seem to keep removing major cities - Nottingham being the latest one. They should just get it done - properly. Including linking to HS1 and the continent.
How much value is there to linking it to the continent?
I would hazard a guess that a train from Manchester to Paris would cost much more than a flight.
Outside of London to Paris and Brussels, there aren't many UK-Europe routes that make much sense for regular scheduled services. And I think the problem is more about timing than cost: simply Manchester to Paris is going to take five hours - and that's quite a lot longer than an hour on the plane.
That said, Eurostar did (profitably) provide a couple of other routes through the tunnel - but they were low frequency, niche ones:
- London-to-the Alps, four trains a week during ski season (and a lot of fun they were too) - London-to-Avignion, daily I think, during the summer
Again, the real time cost of Manchester to Paris is NOT an hour. It is vastly more than that, city centre to city centre.
Independent carrying stories of major salami slicing, which will kill quite a few of the benefits. Including killing the Nottm/Derby station, and putting chunks of it on existing tracks.
Is it true? Problem I have is that the Indy is not reliable.
There seems to be a lot of issues round the eastern leg where they seem to have missed the fact, a train route isn't much use if it doesn't stop at important towns / cities on the route.
Leeds - Sheffield - Nottingham / Derby - all add millions of potential customers to the route.
The reality is that for reasons unknown they seem to want to save costs without thinking through the consequences of those cuts.
They seem to keep removing major cities - Nottingham being the latest one. They should just get it done - properly. Including linking to HS1 and the continent.
How much value is there to linking it to the continent?
I would hazard a guess that a train from Manchester to Paris would cost much more than a flight.
Outside of London to Paris and Brussels, there aren't many UK-Europe routes that make much sense for regular scheduled services. And I think the problem is more about timing than cost: simply Manchester to Paris is going to take five hours - and that's quite a lot longer than an hour on the plane.
That said, Eurostar did (profitably) provide a couple of other routes through the tunnel - but they were low frequency, niche ones:
- London-to-the Alps, four trains a week during ski season (and a lot of fun they were too) - London-to-Avignion, daily I think, during the summer
Again, the real time cost of Manchester to Paris is NOT an hour. It is vastly more than that, city centre to city centre.
It is more than that, sure.
But not many people live right next to central London (or central Manchester) train stations either. And most people don't turn up 30 seconds before their train either.
The evidence is that if there's a train journey that takes less than three hours, most people will prefer it to a flight. By contrast, if it's more than five hours, then the flight will be the more popular option.
Independent carrying stories of major salami slicing, which will kill quite a few of the benefits. Including killing the Nottm/Derby station, and putting chunks of it on existing tracks.
Is it true? Problem I have is that the Indy is not reliable.
There seems to be a lot of issues round the eastern leg where they seem to have missed the fact, a train route isn't much use if it doesn't stop at important towns / cities on the route.
Leeds - Sheffield - Nottingham / Derby - all add millions of potential customers to the route.
The reality is that for reasons unknown they seem to want to save costs without thinking through the consequences of those cuts.
They seem to keep removing major cities - Nottingham being the latest one. They should just get it done - properly. Including linking to HS1 and the continent.
How much value is there to linking it to the continent?
I would hazard a guess that a train from Manchester to Paris would cost much more than a flight.
Outside of London to Paris and Brussels, there aren't many UK-Europe routes that make much sense for regular scheduled services. And I think the problem is more about timing than cost: simply Manchester to Paris is going to take five hours - and that's quite a lot longer than an hour on the plane.
That said, Eurostar did (profitably) provide a couple of other routes through the tunnel - but they were low frequency, niche ones:
- London-to-the Alps, four trains a week during ski season (and a lot of fun they were too) - London-to-Avignion, daily I think, during the summer
Eurostar did loan a few of their Class 373 trains to GNER around 20 years ago, so you were able to catch a "Eurostar" (of sorts!) as far north as York.
Trains can also travel through the night, which saves you a day a la the Caledonian Sleeper*.
*again a very popular option.
Ah, this must be some new definition of the phrase "very popular" that I was previously unaware of.
Popular as in 'well-liked'. Not as in 'well-used'.
I took it to Edinburgh once. I had the appropriate dram of whisky in the near empty bar as it pulled out Euston. And then had a pretty average night's sleep as the train winded its way up the length of Britain.
Upon arriving in Scotland, I then had to go to a hotel to grab a shower and freshen up.
It was an experience. I didn't dislike it. But it was no less hassle than flying up the night before.
On Topic she is of a similar ilk to SKS only marginally better as a communicator, only radical ideas are be tougher on benefit claimants than the Tories.She is a right wing RLB and I wouldn't vote for her for leader for similar reasons
Pretty useless really but it shows what depths Labour has sunk to and anyone is better than Starmer.
Won't change my vote but Labour would be better making the change.
Anyone is an improvement
Rumour has it Labour have been making anonymous briefings against Angela Rayner while she is on bereavement leave
Labour Scum
Let's imagine there is a leadership election and Rayner, Reeves and Nandy are the only three that gain sufficient MP nominations. Who wins the membership vote?
I don't know enough about the current LP membership and rules to form much of a view, though my hunch would be Rayner.
Regarding the Header, I agree that Reeves may be value at 16/1 but does she have much of a chance with the membership?
Speaking of HS2, has anyone else been to Euston recently? I was there last week and it's currently the grottiest railway station I think I've ever been to: eclipsing anything in Asia. The loos are absolutely disgusting.
I only hope this is because of HS2 development? Does anyone know? The fact that it doesn't really link properly to King's Cross-St Pancras is also one of the more bizarre aspects of HS2.
It’s due for demolition quite soon as part of HS2. So everyone there has basically given up. It is indeed horrid. That whole corner of central north London is now roiled by HS2. An eerie echo of the first enormous railway cuttings, in the same place, witnessed and chronicled by Dickens
My god. I’ve looked at that famous image hundreds of times. Highly evocative
I’ve just realized it depicts my flat. That’s where I live. Lol
You've doxxed yourself!
It’s fascinating. That image shows my terrace under construction. 1839. Makes sense. Eg the house on the left has Juliet balconies, the others don’t - yet. Meanwhile whole sections of the terrace are yet to spring up. I never realized they were built at the same time as the railways, but this says so. Would have been pleasant housing for middle ranking railwaymen? Definitely not posh
Like looking at a 200 year old photo of your home. Eerie
Yet think of the smoke and smuts (growing much worse later on as traffic developed, of course). My friend commented that property values went up for houses along the line when they shifted from steam to diesel and increasingly to leccy in the 1960s onwards.
Absolutely. As late as the 60s primrose hill was nicknamed ‘smoke town’ because of the railway pollution. That’s how poets like Plath could afford to live there. The housing was beautiful but the neighbourhood was disregarded. Dylan Thomas lived in a basement on my street and loathed the smut and smog
A while ago I noticed a house from the terrace that was the inspiration for Bob Cratchitt’s house - in A Christmas Carol - was basically for sale. We know the location because Dickens lived there as a boy. Bayham Street.
This house was identical to Dickens’ and the one described as Cratchitt’s. Dickens meant it as the epitome of upper working class impoverishment. Cost today? - £1.5m
Steam engines, are dirty, smelly, inefficient and noisy. Horrible things!
Sorry independistas, they're upgrading a roundabout in Falkirk. It's over.
Seems a shame to redevelop Inverness Castle, too. Do the locals get any say before it's bulldozed and flats are built? Seems to be taking the 'levelling' part a bit too far!
It's just had a shitload of development including a viewpoint from its highest tower Not sure what else they want done, a roller coaster or water slide maybe?
Giant union flag on the walls?
Yep, SOP. See this at Queen Elizabeth House [sic] - UKG HQ in Scotland.
Independent carrying stories of major salami slicing, which will kill quite a few of the benefits. Including killing the Nottm/Derby station, and putting chunks of it on existing tracks.
Is it true? Problem I have is that the Indy is not reliable.
There seems to be a lot of issues round the eastern leg where they seem to have missed the fact, a train route isn't much use if it doesn't stop at important towns / cities on the route.
Leeds - Sheffield - Nottingham / Derby - all add millions of potential customers to the route.
The reality is that for reasons unknown they seem to want to save costs without thinking through the consequences of those cuts.
They seem to keep removing major cities - Nottingham being the latest one. They should just get it done - properly. Including linking to HS1 and the continent.
How much value is there to linking it to the continent?
I would hazard a guess that a train from Manchester to Paris would cost much more than a flight.
Outside of London to Paris and Brussels, there aren't many UK-Europe routes that make much sense for regular scheduled services. And I think the problem is more about timing than cost: simply Manchester to Paris is going to take five hours - and that's quite a lot longer than an hour on the plane.
That said, Eurostar did (profitably) provide a couple of other routes through the tunnel - but they were low frequency, niche ones:
- London-to-the Alps, four trains a week during ski season (and a lot of fun they were too) - London-to-Avignion, daily I think, during the summer
With HS1 and HS2, I reckon Manchester to Paris would be more like 3.5 hours without having to stop in London.
I think there'd be a decent market for that. It probably wouldn't wipe out the air market. When Arsenal played PSG a few years ago, I flew to Paris is was a lot cheaper than the train. The train wasn't expensive because railways are expensive. It was expensive as it was the popular way to travel.
Independent carrying stories of major salami slicing, which will kill quite a few of the benefits. Including killing the Nottm/Derby station, and putting chunks of it on existing tracks.
Is it true? Problem I have is that the Indy is not reliable.
There seems to be a lot of issues round the eastern leg where they seem to have missed the fact, a train route isn't much use if it doesn't stop at important towns / cities on the route.
Leeds - Sheffield - Nottingham / Derby - all add millions of potential customers to the route.
The reality is that for reasons unknown they seem to want to save costs without thinking through the consequences of those cuts.
They seem to keep removing major cities - Nottingham being the latest one. They should just get it done - properly. Including linking to HS1 and the continent.
How much value is there to linking it to the continent?
I would hazard a guess that a train from Manchester to Paris would cost much more than a flight.
Outside of London to Paris and Brussels, there aren't many UK-Europe routes that make much sense for regular scheduled services. And I think the problem is more about timing than cost: simply Manchester to Paris is going to take five hours - and that's quite a lot longer than an hour on the plane.
That said, Eurostar did (profitably) provide a couple of other routes through the tunnel - but they were low frequency, niche ones:
- London-to-the Alps, four trains a week during ski season (and a lot of fun they were too) - London-to-Avignion, daily I think, during the summer
Again, the real time cost of Manchester to Paris is NOT an hour. It is vastly more than that, city centre to city centre.
It is more than that, sure.
But not many people live right next to central London (or central Manchester) train stations either. And most people don't turn up 30 seconds before their train either.
The evidence is that if there's a train journey that takes less than three hours, most people will prefer it to a flight. By contrast, if it's more than five hours, then the flight will be the more popular option.
Yes. As I wrote above, Manchester to Paris would be competitive with air. As you say, it would probably take around 4-5 hours.
Speaking of HS2, has anyone else been to Euston recently? I was there last week and it's currently the grottiest railway station I think I've ever been to: eclipsing anything in Asia. The loos are absolutely disgusting.
I only hope this is because of HS2 development? Does anyone know? The fact that it doesn't really link properly to King's Cross-St Pancras is also one of the more bizarre aspects of HS2.
It’s due for demolition quite soon as part of HS2. So everyone there has basically given up. It is indeed horrid. That whole corner of central north London is now roiled by HS2. An eerie echo of the first enormous railway cuttings, in the same place, witnessed and chronicled by Dickens
My god. I’ve looked at that famous image hundreds of times. Highly evocative
I’ve just realized it depicts my flat. That’s where I live. Lol
You've doxxed yourself!
It’s fascinating. That image shows my terrace under construction. 1839. Makes sense. Eg the house on the left has Juliet balconies, the others don’t - yet. Meanwhile whole sections of the terrace are yet to spring up. I never realized they were built at the same time as the railways, but this says so. Would have been pleasant housing for middle ranking railwaymen? Definitely not posh
Like looking at a 200 year old photo of your home. Eerie
Available for purchase for £11.99 in a size that should be fine to print at A3 size.
On Topic she is of a similar ilk to SKS only marginally better as a communicator, only radical ideas are be tougher on benefit claimants than the Tories.She is a right wing RLB and I wouldn't vote for her for leader for similar reasons
Pretty useless really but it shows what depths Labour has sunk to and anyone is better than Starmer.
Won't change my vote but Labour would be better making the change.
Anyone is an improvement
Rumour has it Labour have been making anonymous briefings against Angela Rayner while she is on bereavement leave
Labour Scum
Social Democrat is Reeves, like most of the current government.
Speaking of HS2, has anyone else been to Euston recently? I was there last week and it's currently the grottiest railway station I think I've ever been to: eclipsing anything in Asia. The loos are absolutely disgusting.
I only hope this is because of HS2 development? Does anyone know? The fact that it doesn't really link properly to King's Cross-St Pancras is also one of the more bizarre aspects of HS2.
It’s due for demolition quite soon as part of HS2. So everyone there has basically given up. It is indeed horrid. That whole corner of central north London is now roiled by HS2. An eerie echo of the first enormous railway cuttings, in the same place, witnessed and chronicled by Dickens
My god. I’ve looked at that famous image hundreds of times. Highly evocative
I’ve just realized it depicts my flat. That’s where I live. Lol
You've doxxed yourself!
It’s fascinating. That image shows my terrace under construction. 1839. Makes sense. Eg the house on the left has Juliet balconies, the others don’t - yet. Meanwhile whole sections of the terrace are yet to spring up. I never realized they were built at the same time as the railways, but this says so. Would have been pleasant housing for middle ranking railwaymen? Definitely not posh
Like looking at a 200 year old photo of your home. Eerie
Yet think of the smoke and smuts (growing much worse later on as traffic developed, of course). My friend commented that property values went up for houses along the line when BR shifted from steam locos to diesel and increasingly to leccy in the 1960s onwards.
I remember suggesting to RCS that houses near major roads will have a similar shift in value when traffic goes all electric....
Trains can also travel through the night, which saves you a day a la the Caledonian Sleeper*.
*again a very popular option.
Ah, this must be some new definition of the phrase "very popular" that I was previously unaware of.
Popular as in 'well-liked'. Not as in 'well-used'.
I’ve done it several times. Only an idiot gets off at Edinburgh. Sorry Robert
For the full Euston-to-roaring-stags experience you should go to Inverness or, even better, Fort William
Magical. Go first class if you can, of course, but any class is brilliant
It is extremely popular and extremely well-used. They charge a fortune because people will pay it
Eg I see lots of trains next week - November - are nearly sold out
Indeed. I have looked several times for winter trips to Fort William and very often it's sold out. I did find a long weekend in March that looked attractive but I understand the dining car is currently closed due to 'covid' so I'll await for them to confirm its reopening before I dive in.
Independent carrying stories of major salami slicing, which will kill quite a few of the benefits. Including killing the Nottm/Derby station, and putting chunks of it on existing tracks.
Is it true? Problem I have is that the Indy is not reliable.
There seems to be a lot of issues round the eastern leg where they seem to have missed the fact, a train route isn't much use if it doesn't stop at important towns / cities on the route.
Leeds - Sheffield - Nottingham / Derby - all add millions of potential customers to the route.
The reality is that for reasons unknown they seem to want to save costs without thinking through the consequences of those cuts.
They seem to keep removing major cities - Nottingham being the latest one. They should just get it done - properly. Including linking to HS1 and the continent.
How much value is there to linking it to the continent?
I would hazard a guess that a train from Manchester to Paris would cost much more than a flight.
Outside of London to Paris and Brussels, there aren't many UK-Europe routes that make much sense for regular scheduled services. And I think the problem is more about timing than cost: simply Manchester to Paris is going to take five hours - and that's quite a lot longer than an hour on the plane.
That said, Eurostar did (profitably) provide a couple of other routes through the tunnel - but they were low frequency, niche ones:
- London-to-the Alps, four trains a week during ski season (and a lot of fun they were too) - London-to-Avignion, daily I think, during the summer
With HS1 and HS2, I reckon Manchester to Paris would be more like 3.5 hours without having to stop in London.
I think there'd be a decent market for that. It probably wouldn't wipe out the air market. When Arsenal played PSG a few years ago, I flew to Paris is was a lot cheaper than the train. The train wasn't expensive because railways are expensive. It was expensive as it was the popular way to travel.
Fair enough: 3.5 hours is enough. You could probably have three or four scheduled services a day and get decent demand.
Trains can also travel through the night, which saves you a day a la the Caledonian Sleeper*.
*again a very popular option.
Ah, this must be some new definition of the phrase "very popular" that I was previously unaware of.
Popular as in 'well-liked'. Not as in 'well-used'.
I’ve done it several times. Only an idiot gets off at Edinburgh. Sorry Robert
For the full Euston-to-roaring-stags experience you should go to Inverness or, even better, Fort William
Magical. Go first class if you can, of course, but any class is brilliant
It is extremely popular and extremely well-used. They charge a fortune because people will pay it
Eg I see lots of trains next week - November - are nearly sold out
Well, I could have gone onto Fort William. But then I'd have missed all my meetings in Edinburgh and wouldn't have been very popular with my colleagues.
Trains can also travel through the night, which saves you a day a la the Caledonian Sleeper*.
*again a very popular option.
Ah, this must be some new definition of the phrase "very popular" that I was previously unaware of.
Popular as in 'well-liked'. Not as in 'well-used'.
I’ve done it several times. Only an idiot gets off at Edinburgh. Sorry Robert
For the full Euston-to-roaring-stags experience you should go to Inverness or, even better, Fort William
Magical. Go first class if you can, of course, but any class is brilliant
It is extremely popular and extremely well-used. They charge a fortune because people will pay it
Eg I see lots of trains next week - November - are nearly sold out
If you have mates who live at the scotch end ask them to sell you a ticket - they are much cheaper if you buy them in blocks of 10. Saves £100 I think.
Trains can also travel through the night, which saves you a day a la the Caledonian Sleeper*.
*again a very popular option.
Ah, this must be some new definition of the phrase "very popular" that I was previously unaware of.
Popular as in 'well-liked'. Not as in 'well-used'.
I’ve done it several times. Only an idiot gets off at Edinburgh. Sorry Robert
For the full Euston-to-roaring-stags experience you should go to Inverness or, even better, Fort William
Magical. Go first class if you can, of course, but any class is brilliant
It is extremely popular and extremely well-used. They charge a fortune because people will pay it
Eg I see lots of trains next week - November - are nearly sold out
Indeed. I have looked several times for winter trips to Fort William and very often it's sold out. I did find a long weekend in March that looked attractive but I understand the dining car is currently closed due to 'covid' so I'll await for them to confirm its reopening before I dive in.
Yes, the dining car is closed, so it’s not half as good. I did it for the Dildo gazette (train supplement) last summer.
Half the fun is getting quietly sozzled on scotch - with a bit of haggis? - in the dining car. As Watford and Birmingham rush past the window in the gloaming. Suburban England
Then you wobble to your compartment, and have a big long boozy sleep, rocked in the swaying womb of the train
You wake, blearily, at 7.30am. You remember where you are. You open the little curtains and see the glens and lochs in the sparkling Highlands sun. I have literally opened those curtains and seen a noble red deer stag, staring back at me.
It’s one of the greatest railway sleeper journeys on the planet. From the heart of a world city, to magnificent wilderness, in one perfect night. I’m not sure anywhere else compares
On Topic she is of a similar ilk to SKS only marginally better as a communicator, only radical ideas are be tougher on benefit claimants than the Tories.She is a right wing RLB and I wouldn't vote for her for leader for similar reasons
Pretty useless really but it shows what depths Labour has sunk to and anyone is better than Starmer.
Won't change my vote but Labour would be better making the change.
Anyone is an improvement
Rumour has it Labour have been making anonymous briefings against Angela Rayner while she is on bereavement leave
Labour Scum
Social Democrat is Reeves, like most of the current government.
Which is why Mike likes her I reckon.
Social Democrats can't win without Democratic Socialists voting for them and vice versa.
Hence Johnson will romp Home unless we are all in the poor house I reckon
Trains can also travel through the night, which saves you a day a la the Caledonian Sleeper*.
*again a very popular option.
Ah, this must be some new definition of the phrase "very popular" that I was previously unaware of.
Popular as in 'well-liked'. Not as in 'well-used'.
I’ve done it several times. Only an idiot gets off at Edinburgh. Sorry Robert
For the full Euston-to-roaring-stags experience you should go to Inverness or, even better, Fort William
Magical. Go first class if you can, of course, but any class is brilliant
It is extremely popular and extremely well-used. They charge a fortune because people will pay it
Eg I see lots of trains next week - November - are nearly sold out
Indeed. I have looked several times for winter trips to Fort William and very often it's sold out. I did find a long weekend in March that looked attractive but I understand the dining car is currently closed due to 'covid' so I'll await for them to confirm its reopening before I dive in.
I've used it several times in the past and thought it rather rudimentary, particularly the lack on on-train showering facilities. Also it was touch and go whether you got in the buffet car or not for an evening meal. Even so, it was a special experience. However believe the service has been upgraded since so, hopefully, it's rather better now.
Trains can also travel through the night, which saves you a day a la the Caledonian Sleeper*.
*again a very popular option.
Ah, this must be some new definition of the phrase "very popular" that I was previously unaware of.
Popular as in 'well-liked'. Not as in 'well-used'.
I’ve done it several times. Only an idiot gets off at Edinburgh. Sorry Robert
For the full Euston-to-roaring-stags experience you should go to Inverness or, even better, Fort William
Magical. Go first class if you can, of course, but any class is brilliant
It is extremely popular and extremely well-used. They charge a fortune because people will pay it
Eg I see lots of trains next week - November - are nearly sold out
If you have mates who live at the scotch end ask them to sell you a ticket - they are much cheaper if you buy them in blocks of 10. Saves £100 I think.
Looks to me like the Caledonian Sleeper is charging more than the airlines - and for a much longer journey.
There is excess demand. As there should be. It’s a premium experience which everyone in Britain should enjoy, at least once, if they can. We are lucky to have it
I blame BrexitBoris Delta. Its just incredibly hard to open society even with reasonably high vaccine coverage. We have done the right thing in the UK, and I believe we will reap the rewards through the winter. I wish we had opened even sooner. I think some other European nations will still be using more stringent restrictions through the winter.
Trains can also travel through the night, which saves you a day a la the Caledonian Sleeper*.
*again a very popular option.
Ah, this must be some new definition of the phrase "very popular" that I was previously unaware of.
Popular as in 'well-liked'. Not as in 'well-used'.
I’ve done it several times. Only an idiot gets off at Edinburgh. Sorry Robert
For the full Euston-to-roaring-stags experience you should go to Inverness or, even better, Fort William
Magical. Go first class if you can, of course, but any class is brilliant
It is extremely popular and extremely well-used. They charge a fortune because people will pay it
Eg I see lots of trains next week - November - are nearly sold out
Indeed. I have looked several times for winter trips to Fort William and very often it's sold out. I did find a long weekend in March that looked attractive but I understand the dining car is currently closed due to 'covid' so I'll await for them to confirm its reopening before I dive in.
Yes, the dining car is closed, so it’s not half as good. I did it for the Dildo gazette (train supplement) last summer.
Half the fun is getting quietly sozzled on scotch - with a bit of haggis? - in the dining car. As Watford and Birmingham rush past the window in the gloaming. Suburban England
Then you wobble to your compartment, and have a big long boozy sleep, rocked in the swaying womb of the train
You wake, blearily, at 7.30am. You remember where you are. You open the little curtains and see the glens and lochs in the sparkling Highlands sun. I have literally opened those curtains and seen a noble red deer stag, staring back at me.
It’s one of the greatest railway sleeper journeys on the planet. From the heart of a world city, to magnificent wilderness, in one perfect night. I’m not sure anywhere else compares
But don’t go til they reopen the dining car
All noted. It’s a bit ridiculous that it’s still closed. I mean, I can go clubbing all night at Fabric. But can’t eat haggis on a train.
Trains can also travel through the night, which saves you a day a la the Caledonian Sleeper*.
*again a very popular option.
Ah, this must be some new definition of the phrase "very popular" that I was previously unaware of.
Popular as in 'well-liked'. Not as in 'well-used'.
I’ve done it several times. Only an idiot gets off at Edinburgh. Sorry Robert
For the full Euston-to-roaring-stags experience you should go to Inverness or, even better, Fort William
Magical. Go first class if you can, of course, but any class is brilliant
It is extremely popular and extremely well-used. They charge a fortune because people will pay it
Eg I see lots of trains next week - November - are nearly sold out
Indeed. I have looked several times for winter trips to Fort William and very often it's sold out. I did find a long weekend in March that looked attractive but I understand the dining car is currently closed due to 'covid' so I'll await for them to confirm its reopening before I dive in.
I've used it several times in the past and thought it rather rudimentary, particularly the lack on on-train showering facilities. Also it was touch and go whether you got in the buffet car or not for an evening meal. Even so, it was a special experience. However believe the service has been upgraded since so, hopefully, it's rather better now.
I blame BrexitBoris Delta. Its just incredibly hard to open society even with reasonably high vaccine coverage. We have done the right thing in the UK, and I believe we will reap the rewards through the winter. I wish we had opened even sooner. I think some other European nations will still be using more stringent restrictions through the winter.
Germany also has really low levels of vaccination in the East - more comparable to US states than to the UK.
The talk of enjoying taking the train when it costs much more and takes much longer than flying, makes me realise we've got a fair few Sheldon Coopers on this site.
I blame BrexitBoris Delta. Its just incredibly hard to open society even with reasonably high vaccine coverage. We have done the right thing in the UK, and I believe we will reap the rewards through the winter. I wish we had opened even sooner. I think some other European nations will still be using more stringent restrictions through the winter.
Germany also has really low levels of vaccination in the East - more comparable to US states than to the UK.
Speaking of HS2, has anyone else been to Euston recently? I was there last week and it's currently the grottiest railway station I think I've ever been to: eclipsing anything in Asia. The loos are absolutely disgusting.
I only hope this is because of HS2 development? Does anyone know? The fact that it doesn't really link properly to King's Cross-St Pancras is also one of the more bizarre aspects of HS2.
It’s due for demolition quite soon as part of HS2. So everyone there has basically given up. It is indeed horrid. That whole corner of central north London is now roiled by HS2. An eerie echo of the first enormous railway cuttings, in the same place, witnessed and chronicled by Dickens
Dombey and Son is one for this stuff. A masterpiece.
Trains can also travel through the night, which saves you a day a la the Caledonian Sleeper*.
*again a very popular option.
Ah, this must be some new definition of the phrase "very popular" that I was previously unaware of.
Popular as in 'well-liked'. Not as in 'well-used'.
I’ve done it several times. Only an idiot gets off at Edinburgh. Sorry Robert
For the full Euston-to-roaring-stags experience you should go to Inverness or, even better, Fort William
Magical. Go first class if you can, of course, but any class is brilliant
It is extremely popular and extremely well-used. They charge a fortune because people will pay it
Eg I see lots of trains next week - November - are nearly sold out
Indeed. I have looked several times for winter trips to Fort William and very often it's sold out. I did find a long weekend in March that looked attractive but I understand the dining car is currently closed due to 'covid' so I'll await for them to confirm its reopening before I dive in.
I've used it several times in the past and thought it rather rudimentary, particularly the lack on on-train showering facilities. Also it was touch and go whether you got in the buffet car or not for an evening meal. Even so, it was a special experience. However believe the service has been upgraded since so, hopefully, it's rather better now.
It’s been upgraded. Yes it was dire but they got away with it because of the magic. Now they make more of an effort because they’ve realised how much they can charge
Incredible to think they were close to cancelling the whole service
They could upgrade it even more, methinks. There is enough luxury demand they could do entirely first class trains with roast venison and all that malarkey, charge £500 return per head - and they’d get the custom, easily. Certainly in summer
Trains can also travel through the night, which saves you a day a la the Caledonian Sleeper*.
*again a very popular option.
Ah, this must be some new definition of the phrase "very popular" that I was previously unaware of.
Popular as in 'well-liked'. Not as in 'well-used'.
I’ve done it several times. Only an idiot gets off at Edinburgh. Sorry Robert
For the full Euston-to-roaring-stags experience you should go to Inverness or, even better, Fort William
Magical. Go first class if you can, of course, but any class is brilliant
It is extremely popular and extremely well-used. They charge a fortune because people will pay it
Eg I see lots of trains next week - November - are nearly sold out
Indeed. I have looked several times for winter trips to Fort William and very often it's sold out. I did find a long weekend in March that looked attractive but I understand the dining car is currently closed due to 'covid' so I'll await for them to confirm its reopening before I dive in.
I've used it several times in the past and thought it rather rudimentary, particularly the lack on on-train showering facilities. Also it was touch and go whether you got in the buffet car or not for an evening meal. Even so, it was a special experience. However believe the service has been upgraded since so, hopefully, it's rather better now.
It’s been upgraded. Yes it was dire but they got away with it because of the magic. Now they make more of an effort because they’ve realised how much they can charge
Incredible to think they were close to cancelling the whole service
They could upgrade it even more, methinks. There is enough luxury demand they could do entirely first class trains with roast venison and all that malarkey, charge £500 return per head - and they’d get the custom, easily. Certainly in summer
German victory in Eastern Europe would have given a Germanic empire with repressed peoples.
You mean there were no repressed peoples in the Brutish Empire? They had flowering meadows and rainbow skies, and rivers made of chocolate, where the children danced and laughed and played with gumdrop smiles?
Empires are inherently oppressive. Some will be better than others, considerably so, which is not irrelevant but also not always that relevant except in specific situations.
The talk of enjoying taking the train when it costs much more and takes much longer than flying, makes me realise we've got a fair few Sheldon Coopers on this site.
David Gauke, part of the group of pro EU politicians who failed to win the case to remain and just cannot concede they lost
Maybe if they had made a better case they could have won it
Yes, but back to the point he raises. The official numbers show the cost of Brexit being double the cost of Covid. We need tax rises and they're blaming Covid. Logically we will need bigger tax rises and they won't blame Brexit...
It's a fallacious argument. The reason covid implies tax rises is because of the amount of government borrowing. Any direct costs of Brexit are nothing compared to furlough, etc.
Brexit is lost revenue. Furlough is lost revenue *and* increased cost.
Brexit is mostly projected, but not all. Exports to EU are already failing to follow Rest of World performance.
We decided to Brexit. W
This is a very loose comment.
'We' was 52% against 48%, in other words hardly deserving of your all-inclusive pronoun, but in some ways the bigger issue is that we didn't vote for Brexit. We didn't really vote for anything. No one know what the hell we were voting for. The devil in the detail only emerged later and I guarantee you that if we'd known the monster we were about to unleash the country would not have voted for it.
What makes you think I disagree on this point?
I’ve said many times that Cameron was suicidally complacent about his EU referendum [...]
It would have roiled and split the Leave campaign and Cameron would have romped home.
Instead he loftily assumed he was cruising to victory, because he is an arrogant Etonian who fatally over-estimated his own abilities. Because that’s what Eton does. It fills you with self assurance. Often unjustified
It's also because 'he' had just won Indyref, even causing The Queen to purr with pleasure, and thus carried all his self-preening arrogance into the Brexit vote.
Brexit is, without question, the greatest mistake Britain as a nation has made. It eclipses all other colonial, military and foreign policy errors combined.
Thank goodness its pushed mass slavery off the top spot!
And World War One. People always overstate the horror of that error. OK Yes we could have stayed neutral in the Great War, thereby saving a million British lives and a trillion pounds, and probably ensuring we kept the Empire for another century, but what’s that compared to the error of leaving the Customs Union thus adding significant paperwork?
Yeah but WW1 inspired some great poetry and ushered in Expressionism, Surrealism, and Modernism.
Brexit has Farage doing £80-a-pop Cameo shout-outs.
1) If we had stayed out of WWI, the Germans would have won in short order. 2) So, the German Empire, Kaiser etc would have stayed intact 3) Given that the German Empire embraced war as a Good thing, and it had worked twice (1870 and 1914) 4) And that they were planning for WII as part of their planned reparations demands.... 5) The Kaiser Wilhelm instate will probably have a bunch more scientists....
So in about 1940 or so, the highly militaristic German Empire would get some good news about bigger and better bangs. Just in time for the next war.....
Interesting. Is (1) true? Having read Keegan on the subject, I'm not convinced that the BEF was that crucial. We have a very British view of 1914, whereas a wider view has millions of French troops under arms against the invading hordes.
If we had stayed neutral, I think it possible Germany would not have won in 1914.
BUT - I think they would have won in the end. Think Verdun without the British to attack on the Somme. The French in chaos in 1916 with mutinies. Would the USA have come in if Britain was neutral (no need to sink the USA - British shipping).
They were a coin flip away from Paris in 1914. The BEF may not have stopped them militarily, but their presence gave a confidence to the French government and military that definitely affected the outcome.
With large chunks of French industry under German control, France would not have lasted long, anyway.
Without Britain in WW1, there would have been no naval blockade starving Germany to death; there'd likely have been no American troops to counterbalance the Russians opting out halfway through and the consequent return of Germans from the Eastern Front. There would certainly have been no Indian troops in the Middle East and Africa (often forgotten, even by the woke who would emphasise Indians on the Western Front away from where most of them did fight; it was a world war after all, yet often misremembered as being confined to France with the odd trip to Belgium). And there'd have been no Commonwealth forces, and it was the Canadians and Australians who were decisive in 1918 in bringing the war to a rapid close.
Britain could easily, and perhaps should, have stayed out of the Great War, but it is idle to pretend we made no difference.
But a powder keg without Hitler, the Nazis, and the Holocaust. That was a uniquely evil aberration, and any alternative history that avoids Hitler (all of them?) is surely ‘better’
You'd have still had the fundamental tension between the Communists and Conservatives in Germany. The fundamental conditions for the rise of Nazi's (Conservative willing to side with the far right to achieve short term aims) would still be there.
Bloody Eastern Europeans coming to London and shoving out the natives.
West Ham United are in advanced talks to sell a 27 per cent stake in the club to Czech billionaire Daniel Kretinsky.
The deal, which could be announced within days, would value West Ham at more than £600 million and could be the precursor to an eventual full takeover which would end the ownership of David Sullivan and David Gold who bought the club in 2010.
The pair have been looking for investment partners for several years and only wanted to sell a minority stake, initially at least. The offer values the club at significantly more than the two bids – albeit attempts to buy West Ham outright – received from PAI Capital, a group headed by London-based Azerbaijani businessman Nasib Piriyev.
Kretinsky, known as the “Czech sphinx” for his low profile and inscrutable nature after making a series of shrewd investments, has been in talks with West Ham for some time.
He is Royal Mail’s biggest shareholder, owning 15 per cent of the company and making paper profits worth hundreds of millions of pounds after the its stock surged in the last year.
Kretinsky’s firm Vesa Equity Investments owns 10 per cent of Sainsbury’s, having recently increased its stake by buying more than £300m worth of shares from Qatar’s sovereign wealth fund.
At 46, Kretinsky is one of a new breed of Eastern Europe industrialists and his fortune is said to be worth more than £3 billion. A corporate lawyer, he has turned to the west where he has also bought magazine titles including the French edition of Elle and radio stations. He is also the largest shareholder in France’s Le Monde newspaper.
Trains can also travel through the night, which saves you a day a la the Caledonian Sleeper*.
*again a very popular option.
Ah, this must be some new definition of the phrase "very popular" that I was previously unaware of.
Popular as in 'well-liked'. Not as in 'well-used'.
I’ve done it several times. Only an idiot gets off at Edinburgh. Sorry Robert
For the full Euston-to-roaring-stags experience you should go to Inverness or, even better, Fort William
Magical. Go first class if you can, of course, but any class is brilliant
It is extremely popular and extremely well-used. They charge a fortune because people will pay it
Eg I see lots of trains next week - November - are nearly sold out
If you have mates who live at the scotch end ask them to sell you a ticket - they are much cheaper if you buy them in blocks of 10. Saves £100 I think.
Leon's mates are all scotch. And they're all called Glen something.
Glen McSomething surely?
And I'll have you know he comes from a long line of proud McSomethings.
Trains can also travel through the night, which saves you a day a la the Caledonian Sleeper*.
*again a very popular option.
Ah, this must be some new definition of the phrase "very popular" that I was previously unaware of.
Popular as in 'well-liked'. Not as in 'well-used'.
I’ve done it several times. Only an idiot gets off at Edinburgh. Sorry Robert
For the full Euston-to-roaring-stags experience you should go to Inverness or, even better, Fort William
Magical. Go first class if you can, of course, but any class is brilliant
It is extremely popular and extremely well-used. They charge a fortune because people will pay it
Eg I see lots of trains next week - November - are nearly sold out
Indeed. I have looked several times for winter trips to Fort William and very often it's sold out. I did find a long weekend in March that looked attractive but I understand the dining car is currently closed due to 'covid' so I'll await for them to confirm its reopening before I dive in.
I've used it several times in the past and thought it rather rudimentary, particularly the lack on on-train showering facilities. Also it was touch and go whether you got in the buffet car or not for an evening meal. Even so, it was a special experience. However believe the service has been upgraded since so, hopefully, it's rather better now.
It’s been upgraded. Yes it was dire but they got away with it because of the magic. Now they make more of an effort because they’ve realised how much they can charge
Incredible to think they were close to cancelling the whole service
They could upgrade it even more, methinks. There is enough luxury demand they could do entirely first class trains with roast venison and all that malarkey, charge £500 return per head - and they’d get the custom, easily. Certainly in summer
There is definitely a sweet spot where the Caledonian Sleeper can do a budget version of this super luxe and make a fat fat profit. Trains and experiences are the future
The talk of enjoying taking the train when it costs much more and takes much longer than flying, makes me realise we've got a fair few Sheldon Coopers on this site.
Better views (it’s normally cloudy at 35,000ft in my experience), more leg room, wider seats, less noisy, much lower chance of having your luggage end up in Cairo by mistake, no long queues at security…
There are lots of reasons for preferring trains to planes. Particularly when journey times are comparable. I have on occasion taken a trip by train just for the journey, rather than the destination. I can’t see myself doing that on a commercial flight.
The talk of enjoying taking the train when it costs much more and takes much longer than flying, makes me realise we've got a fair few Sheldon Coopers on this site.
Again, it doesn’t take “much longer than flying” on the routes we’ve been discussing. Why persist in this mythology?
I'm totally with you on this one. Flying is horrendous. Airport terminals are gross, full of commercial tat and rubbish food. The pain of spending all that time queuing to show papers and then hanging about waiting to get on; then watching morons struggle to put their luggage in the racks; then queuing again to get off and for luggage etc. Meanwhile staying seated with no room to stretch out (for us plebs). No pleasure at all.
By contrast, London - Montpellier by rail is an absolute pleasure, especially the TGV bit. Watching the changing countryside fly past, strolling up and down the train, plenty of legroom, a table to play cards on, and a bar. From city centre to city centre, arriving bright and fresh. Great. There's more to life than time and money.
David Gauke, part of the group of pro EU politicians who failed to win the case to remain and just cannot concede they lost
Maybe if they had made a better case they could have won it
Yes, but back to the point he raises. The official numbers show the cost of Brexit being double the cost of Covid. We need tax rises and they're blaming Covid. Logically we will need bigger tax rises and they won't blame Brexit...
It's a fallacious argument. The reason covid implies tax rises is because of the amount of government borrowing. Any direct costs of Brexit are nothing compared to furlough, etc.
Brexit is lost revenue. Furlough is lost revenue *and* increased cost.
Brexit is mostly projected, but not all. Exports to EU are already failing to follow Rest of World performance.
We decided to Brexit. W
This is a very loose comment.
'We' was 52% against 48%, in other words hardly deserving of your all-inclusive pronoun, but in some ways the bigger issue is that we didn't vote for Brexit. We didn't really vote for anything. No one know what the hell we were voting for. The devil in the detail only emerged later and I guarantee you that if we'd known the monster we were about to unleash the country would not have voted for it.
What makes you think I disagree on this point?
I’ve said many times that Cameron was suicidally complacent about his EU referendum [...]
It would have roiled and split the Leave campaign and Cameron would have romped home.
Instead he loftily assumed he was cruising to victory, because he is an arrogant Etonian who fatally over-estimated his own abilities. Because that’s what Eton does. It fills you with self assurance. Often unjustified
It's also because 'he' had just won Indyref, even causing The Queen to purr with pleasure, and thus carried all his self-preening arrogance into the Brexit vote.
Brexit is, without question, the greatest mistake Britain as a nation has made. It eclipses all other colonial, military and foreign policy errors combined.
Thank goodness its pushed mass slavery off the top spot!
And World War One. People always overstate the horror of that error. OK Yes we could have stayed neutral in the Great War, thereby saving a million British lives and a trillion pounds, and probably ensuring we kept the Empire for another century, but what’s that compared to the error of leaving the Customs Union thus adding significant paperwork?
Yeah but WW1 inspired some great poetry and ushered in Expressionism, Surrealism, and Modernism.
Brexit has Farage doing £80-a-pop Cameo shout-outs.
1) If we had stayed out of WWI, the Germans would have won in short order. 2) So, the German Empire, Kaiser etc would have stayed intact 3) Given that the German Empire embraced war as a Good thing, and it had worked twice (1870 and 1914) 4) And that they were planning for WII as part of their planned reparations demands.... 5) The Kaiser Wilhelm instate will probably have a bunch more scientists....
So in about 1940 or so, the highly militaristic German Empire would get some good news about bigger and better bangs. Just in time for the next war.....
Interesting. Is (1) true? Having read Keegan on the subject, I'm not convinced that the BEF was that crucial. We have a very British view of 1914, whereas a wider view has millions of French troops under arms against the invading hordes.
If we had stayed neutral, I think it possible Germany would not have won in 1914.
BUT - I think they would have won in the end. Think Verdun without the British to attack on the Somme. The French in chaos in 1916 with mutinies. Would the USA have come in if Britain was neutral (no need to sink the USA - British shipping).
They were a coin flip away from Paris in 1914. The BEF may not have stopped them militarily, but their presence gave a confidence to the French government and military that definitely affected the outcome.
With large chunks of French industry under German control, France would not have lasted long, anyway.
Without Britain in WW1, there would have been no naval blockade starving Germany to death; there'd likely have been no American troops to counterbalance the Russians opting out halfway through and the consequent return of Germans from the Eastern Front. There would certainly have been no Indian troops in the Middle East and Africa (often forgotten, even by the woke who would emphasise Indians on the Western Front away from where most of them did fight; it was a world war after all, yet often misremembered as being confined to France with the odd trip to Belgium). And there'd have been no Commonwealth forces, and it was the Canadians and Australians who were decisive in 1918 in bringing the war to a rapid close.
Britain could easily, and perhaps should, have stayed out of the Great War, but it is idle to pretend we made no difference.
If you are responding to my post, which I think you are, my point is about 1914. In the UK we mythologise Mons and Le Cateau, both of which were actually British defeats, and convince ourselves that our intervention on the flank of the French mass armies were crucial. My contention is that the Schlieffen plan was too flawed to work even without British troops adding to the defenders. The vast distances expected of the German right flank were too much, and naturally the plan collapsed.
If we hadn't fought, I think Germany would have won, probably in 1916 against the French and then after against the Russians. So I don't contend that we made no difference, just that our contribution in 1914 is overstated. By the end of the war the British Army (with the Commonwealth Troops as the forefront), was the pre-eminent force left standing, and had perfected a form of warfare that would have forced the Germans all the way back to Berlin, if they hadn't quit.
Whipple said she was unable to hand out a whole-life sentence because Hussein was under 21. She said the usual minimum term would be 37 years for crimes of this severity, but that she had reduced it because of Hussein’s age – he had only turned 18 three weeks before committing the crime – and his autism spectrum disorder diagnosis, which she said could “make you a person who could struggle in prison more than others”.
She decided, however, not to consider evidence of an undiagnosed personality disorder or psychopathy identified in a psychiatric report as a mitigating factor, or to delay sentencing while these were further examined, because Hussein had refused to comply with the evaluation.
The murders were evil but the murderer clearly nutty as a fruitcake (as described in DSM3). I do think we could save a lot of time and money by removing from the courts any role in deciding whether criminals are sane, and instead short-circuiting them to Broadmoor. It would better serve humanity but also justice.
The talk of enjoying taking the train when it costs much more and takes much longer than flying, makes me realise we've got a fair few Sheldon Coopers on this site.
Better views (it’s normally cloudy at 35,000ft in my experience), more leg room, wider seats, less noisy, much lower chance of having your luggage end up in Cairo by mistake, no long queues at security…
There are lots of reasons for preferring trains to planes. Particularly when journey times are comparable. I have on occasion taken a trip by train just for the journey, rather than the destination. I can’t see myself doing that on a commercial flight.
Talking of which, the Cairo Luxor sleeper train is a definite adventure. Still not as good as the Caledonian. But fun
And the old one from Paris to the Riviera, that was special. Not sure if it even runs anymore, now the TGV has unromantically shortened the journey
Whipple said she was unable to hand out a whole-life sentence because Hussein was under 21. She said the usual minimum term would be 37 years for crimes of this severity, but that she had reduced it because of Hussein’s age – he had only turned 18 three weeks before committing the crime – and his autism spectrum disorder diagnosis, which she said could “make you a person who could struggle in prison more than others”.
She decided, however, not to consider evidence of an undiagnosed personality disorder or psychopathy identified in a psychiatric report as a mitigating factor, or to delay sentencing while these were further examined, because Hussein had refused to comply with the evaluation.
The murders were evil but the murderer clearly nutty as a fruitcake (as described in DSM3). I do think we could save a lot of time and money by removing from the courts any role in deciding whether criminals are sane, and instead short-circuiting them to Broadmoor.
I'd be fine with that. But in those cases, life must mean life even if it's in a high security hospital rather than a prison.
Comments
It's alll very well the adulation of Messrs Brunel and Stephenson but one thing they wouldn't (and in Stephenson's and Locke's case didn't) blench at was sending the navvies, the dozers of that day, into Camden.
Luckily the prime minister’s father and brother both live in the area (along with lots of other vocal notables) so it was crushed. Suck it up, Sheffield
https://www.alamy.com/the-ringing-grooves-of-change-a-wash-and-ink-drawing-of-the-construction-of-a-cutting-at-park-street-camden-town-drawings-of-the-london-and-birmingham-railway-by-j-c-bourne-with-an-historical-and-descriptive-account-by-john-britton-1839-source-650b23-plate-6-author-bourne-j-c-image226859870.html
I’ve just realized it depicts my flat. That’s where I live. Lol
Not going to happen now by sound of things.
(the porter's lodge?)
https://www.google.com/maps/@55.9525378,-3.1830513,3a,75y,69.16h,113.72t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2vyfsaRdYr5p3qT_eDi9Rg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
I seem to dimly recall that Sir Tufton was a notable rebel against the poll tax, when in the Lords.
Like looking at a 200 year old photo of your home. Eerie
It's part of the EuCo religion, but even Germany now seem to be learning the lessons of their disastrous former policy.
https://www.trtworld.com/europe/merkel-macron-seek-schengen-area-reform-after-terror-attacks-41332
Whipple said she was unable to hand out a whole-life sentence because Hussein was under 21. She said the usual minimum term would be 37 years for crimes of this severity, but that she had reduced it because of Hussein’s age – he had only turned 18 three weeks before committing the crime – and his autism spectrum disorder diagnosis, which she said could “make you a person who could struggle in prison more than others”.
She decided, however, not to consider evidence of an undiagnosed personality disorder or psychopathy identified in a psychiatric report as a mitigating factor, or to delay sentencing while these were further examined, because Hussein had refused to comply with the evaluation.
https://www.allinlondon.co.uk/features/the-history-of-camdens-castle-pubs
A while ago I noticed a house from the terrace that was the inspiration for Bob Cratchitt’s house - in A Christmas Carol - was basically for sale. We know the location because Dickens lived there as a boy. Bayham Street.
This house was identical to Dickens’ and the one described as Cratchitt’s. Dickens meant it as the epitome of upper working class impoverishment. Cost today? - £1.5m
That’s definitely my home in the Bourne print, in the process of being finished
I must buy the original. Ok a copy
That said, Eurostar did (profitably) provide a couple of other routes through the tunnel - but they were low frequency, niche ones:
- London-to-the Alps, four trains a week during ski season (and a lot of fun they were too)
- London-to-Avignion, daily I think, during the summer
What they didn't consider was that the railway operators would be privatised and it would be much simpler just to run diesels all the way. So when I was working there if a diesel was sitting idling for half an hour beneath us, the office became very smelly.
(It is also worth noting that Schengen membership is usually more popular in opinion polls than EU membership - hence Switzerland choosing by referendum to join it, even while deeply opposed to EU membership.)
Pretty useless really but it shows what depths Labour has sunk to and anyone is better than Starmer.
Won't change my vote but Labour would be better making the change.
Anyone is an improvement
Rumour has it Labour have been making anonymous briefings against Angela Rayner while she is on bereavement leave
Labour Scum
But not many people live right next to central London (or central Manchester) train stations either. And most people don't turn up 30 seconds before their train either.
The evidence is that if there's a train journey that takes less than three hours, most people will prefer it to a flight. By contrast, if it's more than five hours, then the flight will be the more popular option.
Upon arriving in Scotland, I then had to go to a hotel to grab a shower and freshen up.
It was an experience. I didn't dislike it. But it was no less hassle than flying up the night before.
I don't know enough about the current LP membership and rules to form much of a view, though my hunch would be Rayner.
Regarding the Header, I agree that Reeves may be value at 16/1 but does she have much of a chance with the membership?
I think there'd be a decent market for that. It probably wouldn't wipe out the air market. When Arsenal played PSG a few years ago, I flew to Paris is was a lot cheaper than the train. The train wasn't expensive because railways are expensive. It was expensive as it was the popular way to travel.
For the full Euston-to-roaring-stags experience you should go to Inverness or, even better, Fort William
Magical. Go first class if you can, of course, but any class is brilliant
It is extremely popular and extremely well-used. They charge a fortune because people will pay it
Eg I see lots of trains next week - November - are nearly sold out
Makes sense since Covid has been defeated and we can be smug about that, eh @Leon ? 😉
Half the fun is getting quietly sozzled on scotch - with a bit of haggis? - in the dining car. As Watford and Birmingham rush past the window in the gloaming. Suburban England
Then you wobble to your compartment, and have a big long boozy sleep, rocked in the swaying womb of the train
You wake, blearily, at 7.30am. You remember where you are. You open the little curtains and see the glens and lochs in the sparkling Highlands sun. I have literally opened those curtains and seen a noble red deer stag, staring back at me.
It’s one of the greatest railway sleeper journeys on the planet. From the heart of a world city, to magnificent wilderness, in one perfect night. I’m not sure anywhere else compares
But don’t go til they reopen the dining car
Social Democrats can't win without Democratic Socialists voting for them and vice versa.
Hence Johnson will romp Home unless we are all in the poor house I reckon
https://new.sleeper.scot/?origin=8827&destination=1072&outDate=2021-11-03&railcards=&males=1&females=0&children=0&isSupplement=false&pets=0&cycles=0&returnDate=2021-10-31
There is excess demand. As there should be. It’s a premium experience which everyone in Britain should enjoy, at least once, if they can. We are lucky to have it
BrexitBorisDelta. Its just incredibly hard to open society even with reasonably high vaccine coverage. We have done the right thing in the UK, and I believe we will reap the rewards through the winter. I wish we had opened even sooner. I think some other European nations will still be using more stringent restrictions through the winter.‘COVID’ theatre.
From my favourite episode of Big Bang: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nANtbPef8M8
Incredible to think they were close to cancelling the whole service
They could upgrade it even more, methinks. There is enough luxury demand they could do entirely first class trains with roast venison and all that malarkey, charge £500 return per head - and they’d get the custom, easily. Certainly in summer
In three days it will be November. In London
*sigh*
https://www.belmond.com/trains/europe/scotland/belmond-royal-scotsman/about
Britain could easily, and perhaps should, have stayed out of the Great War, but it is idle to pretend we made no difference.
West Ham United are in advanced talks to sell a 27 per cent stake in the club to Czech billionaire Daniel Kretinsky.
The deal, which could be announced within days, would value West Ham at more than £600 million and could be the precursor to an eventual full takeover which would end the ownership of David Sullivan and David Gold who bought the club in 2010.
The pair have been looking for investment partners for several years and only wanted to sell a minority stake, initially at least. The offer values the club at significantly more than the two bids – albeit attempts to buy West Ham outright – received from PAI Capital, a group headed by London-based Azerbaijani businessman Nasib Piriyev.
Kretinsky, known as the “Czech sphinx” for his low profile and inscrutable nature after making a series of shrewd investments, has been in talks with West Ham for some time.
He is Royal Mail’s biggest shareholder, owning 15 per cent of the company and making paper profits worth hundreds of millions of pounds after the its stock surged in the last year.
Kretinsky’s firm Vesa Equity Investments owns 10 per cent of Sainsbury’s, having recently increased its stake by buying more than £300m worth of shares from Qatar’s sovereign wealth fund.
At 46, Kretinsky is one of a new breed of Eastern Europe industrialists and his fortune is said to be worth more than £3 billion. A corporate lawyer, he has turned to the west where he has also bought magazine titles including the French edition of Elle and radio stations. He is also the largest shareholder in France’s Le Monde newspaper.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2021/10/28/west-ham-talks-sell-27-per-cent-stake-czech-billionaire-valuing/
I for one hope the Dildo Brothers are here to stay but do not misunderestimate the brilliance of a corporate lawyer.
And I'll have you know he comes from a long line of proud McSomethings.
There is indeed demand. Look at this:
GRAND WESTERN SCENIC WONDERS - NORTHBOUND
Departs Mon, 11 Apr 2022, 13:45
Arrives Mon, 18 Apr 2022, 09:30
From £12,500 per passenger
TWELVE THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED POUNDS A HEAD
And?
- Sold Out -
There is definitely a sweet spot where the Caledonian Sleeper can do a budget version of this super luxe and make a fat fat profit. Trains and experiences are the future
There are lots of reasons for preferring trains to planes. Particularly when journey times are comparable. I have on occasion taken a trip by train just for the journey, rather than the destination. I can’t see myself doing that on a commercial flight.
A man has been given a suspended sentence after he admitted sending a threatening email to Labour's deputy leader Angela Rayner.
Benjamin Iliffe, 36, from Cambridgeshire, was sentenced at Huntingdon Magistrates' Court to 15 weeks in prison suspended for 18 months.
https://news.sky.com/story/angela-rayner-email-benjamin-iliffe-gets-suspended-sentence-after-he-admitted-sending-threatening-message-to-labour-deputy-leader-12453460
By contrast, London - Montpellier by rail is an absolute pleasure, especially the TGV bit. Watching the changing countryside fly past, strolling up and down the train, plenty of legroom, a table to play cards on, and a bar. From city centre to city centre, arriving bright and fresh. Great. There's more to life than time and money.
If we hadn't fought, I think Germany would have won, probably in 1916 against the French and then after against the Russians. So I don't contend that we made no difference, just that our contribution in 1914 is overstated. By the end of the war the British Army (with the Commonwealth Troops as the forefront), was the pre-eminent force left standing, and had perfected a form of warfare that would have forced the Germans all the way back to Berlin, if they hadn't quit.
And the old one from Paris to the Riviera, that was special. Not sure if it even runs anymore, now the TGV has unromantically shortened the journey