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Reeves puts herself in the frame as Starmer’s successor – politicalbetting.com

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  • Taz said:

    TOPPING said:

    I sat across from Ed Balls et Famille on the ECML one time when he was Shad Chan.

    At Inverness Airport I noticed that Viscount Thurso MP's sunglasses had dropped out of his pocket and on to the floor. He was grateful to me for pointing that out.

    Beat that.
    I was once very excited to find a load of luggage trollies at St Pancras Station (pre Eurostar) with pound coins still in them, and gleefully harvested the cash until my (then) girlfriend pointed out that Tony Benn was sat on the concourse giving me a very disapproving look.
    I formed a low opinion of Senator John Kerry who failed to hide his impatience as our 4 year old daughter was a bit slow going through security in front of him.
    I had a chat and got a selfie with Tony Blair on the Eurostar.
    I saw Posh Spice waiting for her twenty gucci suitcases in the arrivals hall at Grantley Adams International Airport in Barbados.
    And I once saw Jarvis Cocker in the gents toilet at Watford Gap services.
    I stood behind Catherine McKinnell MP in a queue for street food at the Tynemouth food festival a few years back.
    About 40 years ago I was driving up The Mall and stopped at a red light. David Steel crossed in front of me. Suddenly he was surrounded by a party of excited schoolgirls. The lights turned green and I drove gloomily on. Lucky devil, I thought.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    GIN1138 said:

    Ange -

    I have been off work over the last couple of weeks after losing a close loved one. Grief is the burden we bear for love and losing someone close is something that we all experience at some point in our lives, but that knowledge doesn’t make it any easier when it happens to you. So I can’t imagine what the family of Sir David Amess are going through, but I know they will be hurting. I send my heartfelt condolences to them. Sir David was a fine parliamentarian, a proud advocate for his constituents and above all such a kind, generous and warm-hearted man. He will be missed on all sides of the House.

    As a society we need to offer better support to people who are going through bereavement, loss and other traumatic or difficult experiences in their personal lives. I hope that the fact that I took time to deal with a bereavement will encourage other people to do the same when they are going through grief or trauma.

    While I have been away from the cut and thrust of Parliament I have reflected on our political debate and the threats and abuse that now seem to feature all too often.

    I have also reflected on what I said at an event at Labour Party conference. I was angry about where our country is headed and policies that have made life harder for so many people I represent. But I would like to unreservedly apologise for the language I used, and I would not use it again.

    I will continue to speak my mind, stand up for Labour values and hold the government to account. But in the future I will be more careful about how I do that and in the language that I choose.

    cont..

    Well done her.

    Ange has certainly gone up a LOT in my mind with this statement.
    Well ok, but she is still only making up lost ground, and can be dismissed as a stupid and unpleasant woman. Otherwise she wouldn't have said it in the first place.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,213
    Rayner: remember when Natalie Elphicke, Tory MP, apologised saying "I regret messaging privately a rash reaction about Marcus Rashford's missed penalty and apologise to him for any suggestion that he is not fully focused on his football."

    We didn't believe that "apology" did we? I didn't.

    I think it's more reliable to take note of what is originally said by people from all sides as the best window to their souls rather than some apology after the event for whatever reason after reflection.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,393
    Stocky said:

    Alistair said:

    Looks like a big drop in covid numbers today. But not sure whether it includes Northern Ireland?

    It does, 1100 odd cases from NI. 34k England (from 44k last week).
    Monster. I'd been expecting 39k from England alone.
    We are testing less though due to school hols. When we restart relentlessly testing healthy people more positives will emerge and the numbers will rise again. We should only be testing poorly people - that is part of what learning to live with it means.
    My point from earlier is that the drop in testing is significantly less than the drop in positives, so in this sense it is ‘real’. This was the claim that Christina Pagel used to explain the drop, and it does not do so...
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    JBriskin3 said:

    Ange -

    I have been off work over the last couple of weeks after losing a close loved one. Grief is the burden we bear for love and losing someone close is something that we all experience at some point in our lives, but that knowledge doesn’t make it any easier when it happens to you. So I can’t imagine what the family of Sir David Amess are going through, but I know they will be hurting. I send my heartfelt condolences to them. Sir David was a fine parliamentarian, a proud advocate for his constituents and above all such a kind, generous and warm-hearted man. He will be missed on all sides of the House.

    As a society we need to offer better support to people who are going through bereavement, loss and other traumatic or difficult experiences in their personal lives. I hope that the fact that I took time to deal with a bereavement will encourage other people to do the same when they are going through grief or trauma.

    While I have been away from the cut and thrust of Parliament I have reflected on our political debate and the threats and abuse that now seem to feature all too often.

    I have also reflected on what I said at an event at Labour Party conference. I was angry about where our country is headed and policies that have made life harder for so many people I represent. But I would like to unreservedly apologise for the language I used, and I would not use it again.

    I will continue to speak my mind, stand up for Labour values and hold the government to account. But in the future I will be more careful about how I do that and in the language that I choose.

    cont..

    #RaynerApologises!
    I think that's quite a touching statement. She could have perfunctorily apologised for "any offence caused" or similar half-apologies, but she's clearly thought it through.

    I'd say the same if she was in any other party.
    I'm really impressed with it and her.

    I wasn't expecting much; her earlier refusal to apologise had made me think she might even double down, or that any apology would be half-hearted. As you say, though, it's been thoroughly thought through.

    #Respect4Rayner
    You are right, it is a decent statement, if most probably arising from a realisation that if she didn’t try and draw some sort of a line, she was destined never to escape from what had been a single throwaway remark, that would have followed her everywhere.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883

    Taz said:

    TOPPING said:

    I sat across from Ed Balls et Famille on the ECML one time when he was Shad Chan.

    At Inverness Airport I noticed that Viscount Thurso MP's sunglasses had dropped out of his pocket and on to the floor. He was grateful to me for pointing that out.

    Beat that.
    I was once very excited to find a load of luggage trollies at St Pancras Station (pre Eurostar) with pound coins still in them, and gleefully harvested the cash until my (then) girlfriend pointed out that Tony Benn was sat on the concourse giving me a very disapproving look.
    I formed a low opinion of Senator John Kerry who failed to hide his impatience as our 4 year old daughter was a bit slow going through security in front of him.
    I had a chat and got a selfie with Tony Blair on the Eurostar.
    I saw Posh Spice waiting for her twenty gucci suitcases in the arrivals hall at Grantley Adams International Airport in Barbados.
    And I once saw Jarvis Cocker in the gents toilet at Watford Gap services.
    I stood behind Catherine McKinnell MP in a queue for street food at the Tynemouth food festival a few years back.
    About 40 years ago I was driving up The Mall and stopped at a red light. David Steel crossed in front of me. Suddenly he was surrounded by a party of excited schoolgirls. The lights turned green and I drove gloomily on. Lucky devil, I thought.
    I met Vincent Hanna in the bar on a train once.

    I also spoke to Jeremy Paxman when he attended with his daughter at a parents evening a few years ago.

  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,758

    Angela Rayner - Rage? Nay! Learn.

    She's fine though. Nothing of the subversive Corbyn.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274
    IshmaelZ said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Ange -

    I have been off work over the last couple of weeks after losing a close loved one. Grief is the burden we bear for love and losing someone close is something that we all experience at some point in our lives, but that knowledge doesn’t make it any easier when it happens to you. So I can’t imagine what the family of Sir David Amess are going through, but I know they will be hurting. I send my heartfelt condolences to them. Sir David was a fine parliamentarian, a proud advocate for his constituents and above all such a kind, generous and warm-hearted man. He will be missed on all sides of the House.

    As a society we need to offer better support to people who are going through bereavement, loss and other traumatic or difficult experiences in their personal lives. I hope that the fact that I took time to deal with a bereavement will encourage other people to do the same when they are going through grief or trauma.

    While I have been away from the cut and thrust of Parliament I have reflected on our political debate and the threats and abuse that now seem to feature all too often.

    I have also reflected on what I said at an event at Labour Party conference. I was angry about where our country is headed and policies that have made life harder for so many people I represent. But I would like to unreservedly apologise for the language I used, and I would not use it again.

    I will continue to speak my mind, stand up for Labour values and hold the government to account. But in the future I will be more careful about how I do that and in the language that I choose.

    cont..

    Well done her.

    Ange has certainly gone up a LOT in my mind with this statement.
    Well ok, but she is still only making up lost ground, and can be dismissed as a stupid and unpleasant woman. Otherwise she wouldn't have said it in the first place.
    Everyone makes mistakes. She shouldn't have said it but she's clearly reflected and realized she was in the wrong and has been big enough to say so and apologize unreservedly.

    Hopefully everyone can move on.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,393
    edited October 2021
    GIN1138 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Ange -

    I have been off work over the last couple of weeks after losing a close loved one. Grief is the burden we bear for love and losing someone close is something that we all experience at some point in our lives, but that knowledge doesn’t make it any easier when it happens to you. So I can’t imagine what the family of Sir David Amess are going through, but I know they will be hurting. I send my heartfelt condolences to them. Sir David was a fine parliamentarian, a proud advocate for his constituents and above all such a kind, generous and warm-hearted man. He will be missed on all sides of the House.

    As a society we need to offer better support to people who are going through bereavement, loss and other traumatic or difficult experiences in their personal lives. I hope that the fact that I took time to deal with a bereavement will encourage other people to do the same when they are going through grief or trauma.

    While I have been away from the cut and thrust of Parliament I have reflected on our political debate and the threats and abuse that now seem to feature all too often.

    I have also reflected on what I said at an event at Labour Party conference. I was angry about where our country is headed and policies that have made life harder for so many people I represent. But I would like to unreservedly apologise for the language I used, and I would not use it again.

    I will continue to speak my mind, stand up for Labour values and hold the government to account. But in the future I will be more careful about how I do that and in the language that I choose.

    cont..

    Well done her.

    Ange has certainly gone up a LOT in my mind with this statement.
    Well ok, but she is still only making up lost ground, and can be dismissed as a stupid and unpleasant woman. Otherwise she wouldn't have said it in the first place.
    Everyone makes mistakes. She shouldn't have said it but she's clearly reflected and realized she was in the wrong and has been big enough to say so and apologize unreservedly.

    Hopefully everyone can move on.
    Fine to apologise, but I suspect she really does think the Tories are scum.

    Edited because bloody autocorrect to Torres...
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,078

    GIN1138 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Ange -

    I have been off work over the last couple of weeks after losing a close loved one. Grief is the burden we bear for love and losing someone close is something that we all experience at some point in our lives, but that knowledge doesn’t make it any easier when it happens to you. So I can’t imagine what the family of Sir David Amess are going through, but I know they will be hurting. I send my heartfelt condolences to them. Sir David was a fine parliamentarian, a proud advocate for his constituents and above all such a kind, generous and warm-hearted man. He will be missed on all sides of the House.

    As a society we need to offer better support to people who are going through bereavement, loss and other traumatic or difficult experiences in their personal lives. I hope that the fact that I took time to deal with a bereavement will encourage other people to do the same when they are going through grief or trauma.

    While I have been away from the cut and thrust of Parliament I have reflected on our political debate and the threats and abuse that now seem to feature all too often.

    I have also reflected on what I said at an event at Labour Party conference. I was angry about where our country is headed and policies that have made life harder for so many people I represent. But I would like to unreservedly apologise for the language I used, and I would not use it again.

    I will continue to speak my mind, stand up for Labour values and hold the government to account. But in the future I will be more careful about how I do that and in the language that I choose.

    cont..

    Well done her.

    Ange has certainly gone up a LOT in my mind with this statement.
    Well ok, but she is still only making up lost ground, and can be dismissed as a stupid and unpleasant woman. Otherwise she wouldn't have said it in the first place.
    Everyone makes mistakes. She shouldn't have said it but she's clearly reflected and realized she was in the wrong and has been big enough to say so and apologize unreservedly.

    Hopefully everyone can move on.
    Fine to apologise, but I suspect she really does think the Torres are scum.
    Its hardly a unique opinion.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,758
    Cicero said:

    GIN1138 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Ange -

    I have been off work over the last couple of weeks after losing a close loved one. Grief is the burden we bear for love and losing someone close is something that we all experience at some point in our lives, but that knowledge doesn’t make it any easier when it happens to you. So I can’t imagine what the family of Sir David Amess are going through, but I know they will be hurting. I send my heartfelt condolences to them. Sir David was a fine parliamentarian, a proud advocate for his constituents and above all such a kind, generous and warm-hearted man. He will be missed on all sides of the House.

    As a society we need to offer better support to people who are going through bereavement, loss and other traumatic or difficult experiences in their personal lives. I hope that the fact that I took time to deal with a bereavement will encourage other people to do the same when they are going through grief or trauma.

    While I have been away from the cut and thrust of Parliament I have reflected on our political debate and the threats and abuse that now seem to feature all too often.

    I have also reflected on what I said at an event at Labour Party conference. I was angry about where our country is headed and policies that have made life harder for so many people I represent. But I would like to unreservedly apologise for the language I used, and I would not use it again.

    I will continue to speak my mind, stand up for Labour values and hold the government to account. But in the future I will be more careful about how I do that and in the language that I choose.

    cont..

    Well done her.

    Ange has certainly gone up a LOT in my mind with this statement.
    Well ok, but she is still only making up lost ground, and can be dismissed as a stupid and unpleasant woman. Otherwise she wouldn't have said it in the first place.
    Everyone makes mistakes. She shouldn't have said it but she's clearly reflected and realized she was in the wrong and has been big enough to say so and apologize unreservedly.

    Hopefully everyone can move on.
    Fine to apologise, but I suspect she really does think the Torres are scum.
    Its hardly a unique opinion.
    I'm a Tory. Am I scum?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    edited October 2021

    GIN1138 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Ange -

    I have been off work over the last couple of weeks after losing a close loved one. Grief is the burden we bear for love and losing someone close is something that we all experience at some point in our lives, but that knowledge doesn’t make it any easier when it happens to you. So I can’t imagine what the family of Sir David Amess are going through, but I know they will be hurting. I send my heartfelt condolences to them. Sir David was a fine parliamentarian, a proud advocate for his constituents and above all such a kind, generous and warm-hearted man. He will be missed on all sides of the House.

    As a society we need to offer better support to people who are going through bereavement, loss and other traumatic or difficult experiences in their personal lives. I hope that the fact that I took time to deal with a bereavement will encourage other people to do the same when they are going through grief or trauma.

    While I have been away from the cut and thrust of Parliament I have reflected on our political debate and the threats and abuse that now seem to feature all too often.

    I have also reflected on what I said at an event at Labour Party conference. I was angry about where our country is headed and policies that have made life harder for so many people I represent. But I would like to unreservedly apologise for the language I used, and I would not use it again.

    I will continue to speak my mind, stand up for Labour values and hold the government to account. But in the future I will be more careful about how I do that and in the language that I choose.

    cont..

    Well done her.

    Ange has certainly gone up a LOT in my mind with this statement.
    Well ok, but she is still only making up lost ground, and can be dismissed as a stupid and unpleasant woman. Otherwise she wouldn't have said it in the first place.
    Everyone makes mistakes. She shouldn't have said it but she's clearly reflected and realized she was in the wrong and has been big enough to say so and apologize unreservedly.

    Hopefully everyone can move on.
    Fine to apologise, but I suspect she really does think the Torres are scum.
    People can think what they like, what matters is how they act and what they say.

    If she does actually think that, she has avoided the temptation to be mealy mouthed in apology, though time will tell of course.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631
    IanB2 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Ange -

    I have been off work over the last couple of weeks after losing a close loved one. Grief is the burden we bear for love and losing someone close is something that we all experience at some point in our lives, but that knowledge doesn’t make it any easier when it happens to you. So I can’t imagine what the family of Sir David Amess are going through, but I know they will be hurting. I send my heartfelt condolences to them. Sir David was a fine parliamentarian, a proud advocate for his constituents and above all such a kind, generous and warm-hearted man. He will be missed on all sides of the House.

    As a society we need to offer better support to people who are going through bereavement, loss and other traumatic or difficult experiences in their personal lives. I hope that the fact that I took time to deal with a bereavement will encourage other people to do the same when they are going through grief or trauma.

    While I have been away from the cut and thrust of Parliament I have reflected on our political debate and the threats and abuse that now seem to feature all too often.

    I have also reflected on what I said at an event at Labour Party conference. I was angry about where our country is headed and policies that have made life harder for so many people I represent. But I would like to unreservedly apologise for the language I used, and I would not use it again.

    I will continue to speak my mind, stand up for Labour values and hold the government to account. But in the future I will be more careful about how I do that and in the language that I choose.

    cont..

    #RaynerApologises!
    I think that's quite a touching statement. She could have perfunctorily apologised for "any offence caused" or similar half-apologies, but she's clearly thought it through.

    I'd say the same if she was in any other party.
    I'm really impressed with it and her.

    I wasn't expecting much; her earlier refusal to apologise had made me think she might even double down, or that any apology would be half-hearted. As you say, though, it's been thoroughly thought through.

    #Respect4Rayner
    You are right, it is a decent statement, if most probably arising from a realisation that if she didn’t try and draw some sort of a line, she was destined never to escape from what had been a single throwaway remark, that would have followed her everywhere.
    If Jezza were to make a similarly sincere statement over the Anti-Semitism issue it would do the world of good for the party.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129

    Taz said:

    TOPPING said:

    I sat across from Ed Balls et Famille on the ECML one time when he was Shad Chan.

    At Inverness Airport I noticed that Viscount Thurso MP's sunglasses had dropped out of his pocket and on to the floor. He was grateful to me for pointing that out.

    Beat that.
    I was once very excited to find a load of luggage trollies at St Pancras Station (pre Eurostar) with pound coins still in them, and gleefully harvested the cash until my (then) girlfriend pointed out that Tony Benn was sat on the concourse giving me a very disapproving look.
    I formed a low opinion of Senator John Kerry who failed to hide his impatience as our 4 year old daughter was a bit slow going through security in front of him.
    I had a chat and got a selfie with Tony Blair on the Eurostar.
    I saw Posh Spice waiting for her twenty gucci suitcases in the arrivals hall at Grantley Adams International Airport in Barbados.
    And I once saw Jarvis Cocker in the gents toilet at Watford Gap services.
    I stood behind Catherine McKinnell MP in a queue for street food at the Tynemouth food festival a few years back.
    About 40 years ago I was driving up The Mall and stopped at a red light. David Steel crossed in front of me. Suddenly he was surrounded by a party of excited schoolgirls. The lights turned green and I drove gloomily on. Lucky devil, I thought.
    I met Vincent Hanna in the bar on a train once.

    I also spoke to Jeremy Paxman when he attended with his daughter at a parents evening a few years ago.

    Kramer from Seinfeld (Michael Richards) is a dad at my kid's school. Sadly he's nothing like his character
  • TimS said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Fuck it-

    Here's my train anecdote-

    After spending [REDACTED] I took the train from London to Aberdeen - and Nick Clegg was on the same train! (getting off near Sheffield presumably)

    I was sitting a few seats away from Nigel fucking Farage some years back between London Victoria and West Dulwich. He alighted there, presumably, to give a talk at the nearby school.
    I was on the same bus as Roy Hattersley in Birmingham in the 90s.

    I saw Michael Foot at Newcastle station back in the 80s.

    Wor Lass used the next door trap to Margaret Beckett in the Ladies at Derby station.

    #Politiciansonpublictransport
    Had Gordon Brown at the back of the plane to Edinburgh a few years back. Shortly after he'd lost to Cameron. Didn't do much smiling.

    Sat opposite Frances Maude on the tube. I know that's lame but it counts.

    Also knocked Boris Johnson off his bike by accident while crossing Shaftsbury Avenue, back before he was Mayor of London and was just an amusing journalist.
    It was Maude on the tube that earned my like, NOT enduring Brown OR knocking poor Boris ass over teakettle.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,132
    edited October 2021

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Fuck it-

    Here's my train anecdote-

    After spending [REDACTED] I took the train from London to Aberdeen - and Nick Clegg was on the same train! (getting off near Sheffield presumably)

    I was sitting a few seats away from Nigel fucking Farage some years back between London Victoria and West Dulwich. He alighted there, presumably, to give a talk at the nearby school.
    I was on the same bus as Roy Hattersley in Birmingham in the 90s.

    I saw Michael Foot at Newcastle station back in the 80s.

    Wor Lass used the next door trap to Margaret Beckett in the Ladies at Derby station.

    #Politiciansonpublictransport
    Sat opposite Bob Marshall-Andrews MP once on way to London. Fascinating hour of political discussion. V interesting chap. This would be ≈ 2007. He told us he was standing down and that the next election was lost.

    Did he tell you about his self-build house?



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malator
    I came across that randomly whilst cycling in Pembrokeshire. Had no idea it belonged to an MP. It looks quite good, although I'm not sure the design would work very well in the Flatlands...


    Here's one in Norfolkshire:



    Looks like they had to build their hill first.
    Lol, yes. I've seen a few designs like that - there's one in Glen Feshie in the Cairngorms if I recall correctly.

    Grass and soil roofs work pretty well for insulation, too, although you probably need a reasonable amount of rain for the grass to grow.

    Perhaps we should all live like hobbits to solve the climate crisis?


    I tried a simple grass roofed hut in the garden here but it is too dry to be honest. It might have worked in Lancashire.

    One of the interesting things about green roofs is that they only fix the carbon once, when they grow their first lot of plants. Unless you organise for them to create eg a gradual peat bog.

    Whilst solar PV panels save a whole new lot every year.
    How does the increased insulation (and so reduced heating cost) affect that calculation?
    Very little. In insulation calcs it is normal to ignore it.

    Soil has an insulating value per unit of thickness (r-value = 1/u-value) scores of times worse than normal insulation (even worse when wet) so the 60-80mm you get in a normal green roof makes almost no difference at all.

    If you are doing something like a metre of soil on top then it may be worth working it out, but it will probably still be a very minor thermal element.

    Here's a thread on Buildhub where somebody asked the question:
    https://forum.buildhub.org.uk/topic/4409-calculating-u-value-of-garden-basement/

    A wall with all it's different U (or R) values is a great way to explore ratios and approximations. In practice for getting a good-enough answer to say a few % you can ignore the Render, Brick & Plaster, and perhaps the air cavity, and just need to take account of insulation & thermal 'blocks'. All sorts of fun things to do. What happens if you don't seal the top of the cavity in the wall, and leave it open to the loft (common)?

    Here's an online calculator which I normally use: https://www.vesma.com/tutorial/uvalue01/uvalue01.htm

    Soil is about use 2.5K.m./W as a u-value, whilst the worst in that list is bricks, which are 3 times more insulating.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,213
    Leon said:

    That’s a nobly expressed apology from Rayner. Creditable

    Yes it is. Elegant even. But do you believe that she - dunno - misspoke? - and doesn't in fact believe that some Tory MPs and some Tory voters are scum?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129
    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    The talk of enjoying taking the train when it costs much more and takes much longer than flying, makes me realise we've got a fair few Sheldon Coopers on this site.

    From my favourite episode of Big Bang: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nANtbPef8M8

    Again, it doesn’t take “much longer than flying” on the routes we’ve been discussing. Why persist in this mythology?
    We were talking about examples like Manchester to Paris. That's a 90 minute flight.

    How do you get from Manchester to Paris without spending much longer than 90 minutes? It'd take at least twice as long even direct.
    Again, show me your working. Including faffing around at the airports, getting to/from city centres... but we've been through this, over and again now!
    As I said its 90 minutes from Manchester to Paris direct. You'd be looking at least 3 hours and probably closer to four hours to do the same via trains. That's at least twice as long. There's some security beforehand in Manchester but you're not looking at 90 minutes.

    I wouldn't go from the city centre since I don't live off the city centre. Quite easy to get to the airport via the M56.

    I don't hate trains, I just don't hate flying either. Trains make more sense for shorter journeys, I would never fly to London unless its because I've got a connecting flight onwards from there, if I was going to London I'd take the train. But Paris is a different matter.
    I recently took the train to Paris. Given the crap at both ends it isn't great as to speed. When you arrive in Paris you find yourself at what surely is the nastiest spot in France, and the most ridiculous and inefficient of arrangements for a taxi.

    I ventured further (as you'd expect), and France is just wonderful (literally full of wonder).
    Why take a taxi? There are multiple Metro lines that go though Gare du Nord.
    Just two I think - 5&6. 5 as shut as it was a weekend. The metro I finished up on was crowded and there was a fight. It was also pretty awful. Some years ago the London tube was far less nice that the Paris Metro. The situation is substantially reversed now though.

    Ahead for France is fixing that, as slightly less pressing is our true modernisation of the tube.
    I don't think the Paris Metro has ever been anything other than dirty and crowded. It competes with New York for least attractive major city subway system.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    Cicero said:

    GIN1138 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Ange -

    I have been off work over the last couple of weeks after losing a close loved one. Grief is the burden we bear for love and losing someone close is something that we all experience at some point in our lives, but that knowledge doesn’t make it any easier when it happens to you. So I can’t imagine what the family of Sir David Amess are going through, but I know they will be hurting. I send my heartfelt condolences to them. Sir David was a fine parliamentarian, a proud advocate for his constituents and above all such a kind, generous and warm-hearted man. He will be missed on all sides of the House.

    As a society we need to offer better support to people who are going through bereavement, loss and other traumatic or difficult experiences in their personal lives. I hope that the fact that I took time to deal with a bereavement will encourage other people to do the same when they are going through grief or trauma.

    While I have been away from the cut and thrust of Parliament I have reflected on our political debate and the threats and abuse that now seem to feature all too often.

    I have also reflected on what I said at an event at Labour Party conference. I was angry about where our country is headed and policies that have made life harder for so many people I represent. But I would like to unreservedly apologise for the language I used, and I would not use it again.

    I will continue to speak my mind, stand up for Labour values and hold the government to account. But in the future I will be more careful about how I do that and in the language that I choose.

    cont..

    Well done her.

    Ange has certainly gone up a LOT in my mind with this statement.
    Well ok, but she is still only making up lost ground, and can be dismissed as a stupid and unpleasant woman. Otherwise she wouldn't have said it in the first place.
    Everyone makes mistakes. She shouldn't have said it but she's clearly reflected and realized she was in the wrong and has been big enough to say so and apologize unreservedly.

    Hopefully everyone can move on.
    Fine to apologise, but I suspect she really does think the Torres are scum.
    Its hardly a unique opinion.
    Many stupid and horrible views are not unique.
    Omnium said:

    Cicero said:

    GIN1138 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Ange -

    I have been off work over the last couple of weeks after losing a close loved one. Grief is the burden we bear for love and losing someone close is something that we all experience at some point in our lives, but that knowledge doesn’t make it any easier when it happens to you. So I can’t imagine what the family of Sir David Amess are going through, but I know they will be hurting. I send my heartfelt condolences to them. Sir David was a fine parliamentarian, a proud advocate for his constituents and above all such a kind, generous and warm-hearted man. He will be missed on all sides of the House.

    As a society we need to offer better support to people who are going through bereavement, loss and other traumatic or difficult experiences in their personal lives. I hope that the fact that I took time to deal with a bereavement will encourage other people to do the same when they are going through grief or trauma.

    While I have been away from the cut and thrust of Parliament I have reflected on our political debate and the threats and abuse that now seem to feature all too often.

    I have also reflected on what I said at an event at Labour Party conference. I was angry about where our country is headed and policies that have made life harder for so many people I represent. But I would like to unreservedly apologise for the language I used, and I would not use it again.

    I will continue to speak my mind, stand up for Labour values and hold the government to account. But in the future I will be more careful about how I do that and in the language that I choose.

    cont..

    Well done her.

    Ange has certainly gone up a LOT in my mind with this statement.
    Well ok, but she is still only making up lost ground, and can be dismissed as a stupid and unpleasant woman. Otherwise she wouldn't have said it in the first place.
    Everyone makes mistakes. She shouldn't have said it but she's clearly reflected and realized she was in the wrong and has been big enough to say so and apologize unreservedly.

    Hopefully everyone can move on.
    Fine to apologise, but I suspect she really does think the Torres are scum.
    Its hardly a unique opinion.
    I'm a Tory. Am I scum?
    You may need to be more precise - the answer could be yes (though I am sure it is not), but not because you are a Tory, that might be coincidence.

    But being serious for a moment, there really is no need for people to go down that route in modern politica discourse and especially mainstream politics. The self congratulatory satisfaction from doing it can be managed in less stupid ways.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067

    Anyhoo, I've resigned my membership of Yorkshire County Cricket Club.

    What a fiasco.

    Azeem Rafiq has accused Yorkshire of protecting their staff after the county said it will take no disciplinary action against any of its employees, players or executives following an independent report on allegations of racism.

    The former Yorkshire player reacted angrily in the wake of the club’s announcement on Thursday their internal investigation had concluded “there is no conduct or action taken by any of its employees, players or executives that warrants disciplinary action”.

    Writing on Twitter, Rafiq said: “Wow just when you think this club couldn’t get more embarrassing you find a way. Still awaiting the FULL report. Thanks for mentioning the people that have provided your PROTECTION & given green light to RACISM.”

    Yorkshire released a summarised version of their report on 10 September, apologising and accepting Rafiq had been a victim of “racial harassment and bullying” in his two spells at the club between 2008 and 2018.

    A spokesperson for Rafiq said: “We note the statement released by Yorkshire County Cricket Club today. As ever, we will take time to fully respond. However, we do also note that the club has come to the conclusion that no employees, players or executives will face disciplinary action. This is despite Yorkshire County Cricket Club’s admission that Azeem was the victim of racial harassment and bullying. This is despite Yorkshire County Cricket Club’s admission that it failed to follow its own policy and investigate allegations of racism as recently as 2018.

    “It is inconceivable that there are no current employees who should not have been disciplined for their conduct. Yorkshire’s failures continue to mount up and it is time that board members – for once – do the decent thing and resign.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/oct/28/yorkshire-says-no-staff-at-club-will-face-action-over-azeem-rafiq

    It is the most depressing shit show.
    I don't know how this resolves without a clear out of those in charge.
  • I once (in 2011, I think) accidentally followed William Hague on foot all the way from the back of MI5 - across Horseferry Road, through St John's Square and Westminster College, across Victoria St and onto Storey's Gate then Horse Guards' Road - all the way to back of Downing St.

    I was heading for Charing Cross Road and didn't want to walk down Millbank and Whitehall. I'm guessing he'd been at CCHQ and was going for a chat with Dave or George.

    I normally walk faster than most people, despite my rather short legs, but he walked at the same speed. I don't know if it was because he though there was a crazy lady walking about 20 yards behind him for a mile and a half; I didn't see him look around at all.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,132
    JBriskin3 said:

    Ange -

    I have been off work over the last couple of weeks after losing a close loved one. Grief is the burden we bear for love and losing someone close is something that we all experience at some point in our lives, but that knowledge doesn’t make it any easier when it happens to you. So I can’t imagine what the family of Sir David Amess are going through, but I know they will be hurting. I send my heartfelt condolences to them. Sir David was a fine parliamentarian, a proud advocate for his constituents and above all such a kind, generous and warm-hearted man. He will be missed on all sides of the House.

    As a society we need to offer better support to people who are going through bereavement, loss and other traumatic or difficult experiences in their personal lives. I hope that the fact that I took time to deal with a bereavement will encourage other people to do the same when they are going through grief or trauma.

    While I have been away from the cut and thrust of Parliament I have reflected on our political debate and the threats and abuse that now seem to feature all too often.

    I have also reflected on what I said at an event at Labour Party conference. I was angry about where our country is headed and policies that have made life harder for so many people I represent. But I would like to unreservedly apologise for the language I used, and I would not use it again.

    I will continue to speak my mind, stand up for Labour values and hold the government to account. But in the future I will be more careful about how I do that and in the language that I choose.

    cont..

    #RaynerApologises!
    Fair play to her for that.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Facebook is a joke of a company and an existential threat to humanity

    https://about.facebook.com/meta/
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,372
    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    That’s a nobly expressed apology from Rayner. Creditable

    Yes it is. Elegant even. But do you believe that she - dunno - misspoke? - and doesn't in fact believe that some Tory MPs and some Tory voters are scum?
    I got the impression she was Speaking more to play to her supporter base in labour than anything else. Whether or not she believes it, they certainly do.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,213

    Stocky said:

    Rayner: remember when Natalie Elphicke, Tory MP, apologised saying "I regret messaging privately a rash reaction about Marcus Rashford's missed penalty and apologise to him for any suggestion that he is not fully focused on his football."

    We didn't believe that "apology" did we? I didn't.

    I think it's more reliable to take note of what is originally said by people from all sides as the best window to their souls rather than some apology after the event for whatever reason after reflection.

    I dunno about that - I'm not sure that everything I've ever said was a window on my soul. We all get carried away sometimes. Don't you?

    But also, the death of a close relative is something which can prompt a genuine rethink about how one's going through life. It's a thoughtful statement, devoid of excuses or qualifying clauses, and deserve to be taken as such.
    Fair point. I don't call people names like scum ever though.

    Actually I probably did once, when my car got nicked and it turned up a few days later damaged (joyrider). Scum - I'm not apologising.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129
    Omnium said:

    Cicero said:

    GIN1138 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Ange -

    I have been off work over the last couple of weeks after losing a close loved one. Grief is the burden we bear for love and losing someone close is something that we all experience at some point in our lives, but that knowledge doesn’t make it any easier when it happens to you. So I can’t imagine what the family of Sir David Amess are going through, but I know they will be hurting. I send my heartfelt condolences to them. Sir David was a fine parliamentarian, a proud advocate for his constituents and above all such a kind, generous and warm-hearted man. He will be missed on all sides of the House.

    As a society we need to offer better support to people who are going through bereavement, loss and other traumatic or difficult experiences in their personal lives. I hope that the fact that I took time to deal with a bereavement will encourage other people to do the same when they are going through grief or trauma.

    While I have been away from the cut and thrust of Parliament I have reflected on our political debate and the threats and abuse that now seem to feature all too often.

    I have also reflected on what I said at an event at Labour Party conference. I was angry about where our country is headed and policies that have made life harder for so many people I represent. But I would like to unreservedly apologise for the language I used, and I would not use it again.

    I will continue to speak my mind, stand up for Labour values and hold the government to account. But in the future I will be more careful about how I do that and in the language that I choose.

    cont..

    Well done her.

    Ange has certainly gone up a LOT in my mind with this statement.
    Well ok, but she is still only making up lost ground, and can be dismissed as a stupid and unpleasant woman. Otherwise she wouldn't have said it in the first place.
    Everyone makes mistakes. She shouldn't have said it but she's clearly reflected and realized she was in the wrong and has been big enough to say so and apologize unreservedly.

    Hopefully everyone can move on.
    Fine to apologise, but I suspect she really does think the Torres are scum.
    Its hardly a unique opinion.
    I'm a Tory. Am I scum?
    Yes.

    But that's nothing to do with you being a Tory.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,213
    Taz said:

    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    That’s a nobly expressed apology from Rayner. Creditable

    Yes it is. Elegant even. But do you believe that she - dunno - misspoke? - and doesn't in fact believe that some Tory MPs and some Tory voters are scum?
    I got the impression she was Speaking more to play to her supporter base in labour than anything else. Whether or not she believes it, they certainly do.
    Good point.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631
    A friend of mine was in Westminster in the Eighties in a downpour getting drenched, when a man hailed a taxi. He invited her in to share the taxi and dropped her off on the way, after a pleasant chat. It was Tony Benn, and she became quite a convert.

    I once literally bumped into Harold Wilson as an old man in Westminster about the same time. He was very frail looking, but fortunately no injury.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Andy_JS said:

    This is a good speech by Biden. Wealthy people should pay their fair share of tax.

    I agree!

    How does he define “wealthy” and “fair share”?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    IshmaelZ said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Ange -

    I have been off work over the last couple of weeks after losing a close loved one. Grief is the burden we bear for love and losing someone close is something that we all experience at some point in our lives, but that knowledge doesn’t make it any easier when it happens to you. So I can’t imagine what the family of Sir David Amess are going through, but I know they will be hurting. I send my heartfelt condolences to them. Sir David was a fine parliamentarian, a proud advocate for his constituents and above all such a kind, generous and warm-hearted man. He will be missed on all sides of the House.

    As a society we need to offer better support to people who are going through bereavement, loss and other traumatic or difficult experiences in their personal lives. I hope that the fact that I took time to deal with a bereavement will encourage other people to do the same when they are going through grief or trauma.

    While I have been away from the cut and thrust of Parliament I have reflected on our political debate and the threats and abuse that now seem to feature all too often.

    I have also reflected on what I said at an event at Labour Party conference. I was angry about where our country is headed and policies that have made life harder for so many people I represent. But I would like to unreservedly apologise for the language I used, and I would not use it again.

    I will continue to speak my mind, stand up for Labour values and hold the government to account. But in the future I will be more careful about how I do that and in the language that I choose.

    cont..

    Well done her.

    Ange has certainly gone up a LOT in my mind with this statement.
    Well ok, but she is still only making up lost ground, and can be dismissed as a stupid and unpleasant woman. Otherwise she wouldn't have said it in the first place.
    Can there not be redemption? Time will tell on sincerity, but converts to such a view should be welcomed to encourage more to follow. We wouldn't want to act like it makes no difference and she should be treated like she has stuck to her guns without apology, which would just be to tell those who still say it to be self righteous that it is the right thing.
  • Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    That’s a nobly expressed apology from Rayner. Creditable

    Yes it is. Elegant even. But do you believe that she - dunno - misspoke? - and doesn't in fact believe that some Tory MPs and some Tory voters are scum?
    Does it matter much if she does? The bigger sin here was her expressing such views and deepening divisions in the country, whilst being such a senior politician. Holding the same views is far less of a problem.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,132

    TOPPING said:

    I sat across from Ed Balls et Famille on the ECML one time when he was Shad Chan.

    At Inverness Airport I noticed that Viscount Thurso MP's sunglasses had dropped out of his pocket and on to the floor. He was grateful to me for pointing that out.

    Beat that.
    At the age of nine (may have been 8) I beat Ed Davey to the form prize...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129
    Charles said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This is a good speech by Biden. Wealthy people should pay their fair share of tax.

    I agree!

    How does he define “wealthy” and “fair share”?
    Wealthy means people around 50% richer than oneself. And "fair share" means about twice as much tax.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Cicero said:

    GIN1138 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Ange -

    I have been off work over the last couple of weeks after losing a close loved one. Grief is the burden we bear for love and losing someone close is something that we all experience at some point in our lives, but that knowledge doesn’t make it any easier when it happens to you. So I can’t imagine what the family of Sir David Amess are going through, but I know they will be hurting. I send my heartfelt condolences to them. Sir David was a fine parliamentarian, a proud advocate for his constituents and above all such a kind, generous and warm-hearted man. He will be missed on all sides of the House.

    As a society we need to offer better support to people who are going through bereavement, loss and other traumatic or difficult experiences in their personal lives. I hope that the fact that I took time to deal with a bereavement will encourage other people to do the same when they are going through grief or trauma.

    While I have been away from the cut and thrust of Parliament I have reflected on our political debate and the threats and abuse that now seem to feature all too often.

    I have also reflected on what I said at an event at Labour Party conference. I was angry about where our country is headed and policies that have made life harder for so many people I represent. But I would like to unreservedly apologise for the language I used, and I would not use it again.

    I will continue to speak my mind, stand up for Labour values and hold the government to account. But in the future I will be more careful about how I do that and in the language that I choose.

    cont..

    Well done her.

    Ange has certainly gone up a LOT in my mind with this statement.
    Well ok, but she is still only making up lost ground, and can be dismissed as a stupid and unpleasant woman. Otherwise she wouldn't have said it in the first place.
    Everyone makes mistakes. She shouldn't have said it but she's clearly reflected and realized she was in the wrong and has been big enough to say so and apologize unreservedly.

    Hopefully everyone can move on.
    Fine to apologise, but I suspect she really does think the Torres are scum.
    Its hardly a unique opinion.
    Nor is the opinion that, for instance, the world is run by a Zionist conspiracy headed by the Rothschild family. Non uniqueness is not a great test of validity.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    I once literally bumped into Gordon Brown in a packed bar in Manchester. Absolute grizzly bear of a man.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,213
    edited October 2021

    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    That’s a nobly expressed apology from Rayner. Creditable

    Yes it is. Elegant even. But do you believe that she - dunno - misspoke? - and doesn't in fact believe that some Tory MPs and some Tory voters are scum?
    Does it matter much if she does? The bigger sin here was her expressing such views and deepening divisions in the country, whilst being such a senior politician. Holding the same views is far less of a problem.
    No, I'm not against ideological passion and honesty in politics. Better she sticks to her guns. I'm interested in what is true.

    Prescott had fruity things to say about the LibDems in his time (who he seems to despise more than the Tories). I'm sure Jacob RM thinks many on the left are deluded. Which they are.

  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,294
    Charles said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This is a good speech by Biden. Wealthy people should pay their fair share of tax.

    I agree!

    How does he define “wealthy” and “fair share”?
    How about we start with the principle that billionaires shouldn't have lower tax rates than their secretaries.
  • Omnium said:

    Angela Rayner - Rage? Nay! Learn.

    She's fine though. Nothing of the subversive Corbyn.
    Jeremy Corbyn

    Benjy cry more
  • Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    That’s a nobly expressed apology from Rayner. Creditable

    Yes it is. Elegant even. But do you believe that she - dunno - misspoke? - and doesn't in fact believe that some Tory MPs and some Tory voters are scum?
    It doesn't matter what she believes. We don't have thought crimes.

    What's important is that she doesn't use her very prominent position to incite hatred.

    If this has made her even a little more congenial towards her parliamentary opponents, and in future she remembers to go for the ball and not the man, it could have an influence on her supporters and do a bit to make politics nicer.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,372

    Stocky said:

    Rayner: remember when Natalie Elphicke, Tory MP, apologised saying "I regret messaging privately a rash reaction about Marcus Rashford's missed penalty and apologise to him for any suggestion that he is not fully focused on his football."

    We didn't believe that "apology" did we? I didn't.

    I think it's more reliable to take note of what is originally said by people from all sides as the best window to their souls rather than some apology after the event for whatever reason after reflection.

    I dunno about that - I'm not sure that everything I've ever said was a window on my soul. We all get carried away sometimes. Don't you?

    But also, the death of a close relative is something which can prompt a genuine rethink about how one's going through life. It's a thoughtful statement, devoid of excuses or qualifying clauses, and deserve to be taken as such.
    I completely agree with this Nick. I’m sure we all go through things in life that make us take stock of where we are, who we are and what we are and give us pause for reflect.

    She’s obviously had a tough time recently and her statement deserves to be taken on face value for what it is.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    edited October 2021
    Stocky said:

    Rayner: remember when Natalie Elphicke, Tory MP, apologised saying "I regret messaging privately a rash reaction about Marcus Rashford's missed penalty and apologise to him for any suggestion that he is not fully focused on his football."

    We didn't believe that "apology" did we? I didn't.

    I think it's more reliable to take note of what is originally said by people from all sides as the best window to their souls rather than some apology after the event for whatever reason after reflection.

    I fundamentally disagree. People's views do change, and what they initially said may not, particularly much later, be a reliable window to their soul now. Cannot some sexist or racist or just plain arsehole see the light and truly repent and repudiate their past opinions?

    The key, and difficulty, is judging what is sincere and what is mere calculation. The nature of the apology is significant - is it caveated in some way? Do their later actions not reflect the apology?

    I'm inclined to give people the benefit of the doubt where they have avoided a classic 'apologise without accepting blame'*, and then see if they live up to those words.

    *eg I'm sorry I was caught, I'm sorry you are acting this way in response, I'm sorry the situation is what it is
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited October 2021
    I sat behind Boris at the theatre.

    Another time I ran past him going the other way along the canal. He was puce-faced and out of breath, though we were only 100 metres or so from his then house.

    I am known for a certain incident with Dominic Cummings.

    Lord Frost also jogged past me one morning.

    Dianne Abbot often waddles past my house, toward the bus stop.

    I have many proper celebrity connects for reasons I do not wish to go into.

    However, I once pissed in the neighbouring urinal to Kanye West.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631
    Charles said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This is a good speech by Biden. Wealthy people should pay their fair share of tax.

    I agree!

    How does he define “wealthy” and “fair share”?
    Well, he did make this point the other day. Seems a reasonable one to me:

    It’s simple: a teacher shouldn’t pay a higher tax rate than an oil company. That’s what I’m trying to change.

    https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/1452678728262295552?t=82LA9aFNj0XyU3gBUVIajg&s=19

  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,213

    I once literally bumped into Gordon Brown in a packed bar in Manchester. Absolute grizzly bear of a man.

    Did he have Salmond between his teeth?

    Geddit?
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    Facebook renames itself “Meta”

    Pricks
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,254
    ‘Facebook changes its name to Meta as part of company rebrand’

    Meta? At this point Zuckerberg is trolling the entire world


    https://twitter.com/ap/status/1453791129346977793?s=21
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274
    Taz said:

    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    That’s a nobly expressed apology from Rayner. Creditable

    Yes it is. Elegant even. But do you believe that she - dunno - misspoke? - and doesn't in fact believe that some Tory MPs and some Tory voters are scum?
    I got the impression she was Speaking more to play to her supporter base in labour than anything else. Whether or not she believes it, they certainly do.
    No doubt she'll be getting it in the neck from some of that base who will now see her as a traitor etc for apologizing.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274
    ping said:

    Facebook renames itself “Meta”

    Why?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Alistair said:

    Facebook is a joke of a company and an existential threat to humanity

    https://about.facebook.com/meta/

    Sadly, no joke.
  • Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    That’s a nobly expressed apology from Rayner. Creditable

    Yes it is. Elegant even. But do you believe that she - dunno - misspoke? - and doesn't in fact believe that some Tory MPs and some Tory voters are scum?
    Does it matter much if she does? The bigger sin here was her expressing such views and deepening divisions in the country, whilst being such a senior politician. Holding the same views is far less of a problem.
    No, I'm not against ideological passion and honesty in politics. Better she sticks to her guns. I'm interested in what is true.

    Prescott had fruity things to say about the LibDems in his time (who he seems to despise more than the Tories). I'm sure Jacob RM thinks many on the left are deluded. Which they are.

    I would say that those who wish to make such divisive comments should not be in the cabinet or shadow cabinet. Their job is/would be to govern for the whole country and represent all of us. Having our leaders exploit divisions amongst us is a bigger crime than thinking the opposition are uncaring, naive or deluded but not expressing such views. It is not dishonest but polite to avoid insulting someone or a group you don't like.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631
    Stocky said:

    I once literally bumped into Gordon Brown in a packed bar in Manchester. Absolute grizzly bear of a man.

    Did he have Salmond between his teeth?

    Geddit?
    I hope that doesn't spawn another thread on caviar...
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,758

    I once literally bumped into Gordon Brown in a packed bar in Manchester. Absolute grizzly bear of a man.

    If he bumps into me he'll be a grizzly skin on the wall. (I have a real hate for him)
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,393

    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    That’s a nobly expressed apology from Rayner. Creditable

    Yes it is. Elegant even. But do you believe that she - dunno - misspoke? - and doesn't in fact believe that some Tory MPs and some Tory voters are scum?
    Does it matter much if she does? The bigger sin here was her expressing such views and deepening divisions in the country, whilst being such a senior politician. Holding the same views is far less of a problem.
    That’s a fair point, but it’s also a bit worrying that disagreeing with your views leads you to categorise your opponent as scum. Politics is messy. I dont believe the left have all the right answers and I’m damn sure the current muppets don’t, but generally I don’t think they are malign in intent. I don’t believe labour mps are scum, because I think some of their ideas are wrong.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,372
    edited October 2021
    GIN1138 said:

    Taz said:

    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    That’s a nobly expressed apology from Rayner. Creditable

    Yes it is. Elegant even. But do you believe that she - dunno - misspoke? - and doesn't in fact believe that some Tory MPs and some Tory voters are scum?
    I got the impression she was Speaking more to play to her supporter base in labour than anything else. Whether or not she believes it, they certainly do.
    No doubt she'll be getting it in the neck from some of that base who will now see her as a traitor etc for apologizing.
    What a depressing thought, sadly I fear you’re right,

    This thread is a depressing read

    https://twitter.com/skynews/status/1453781042154905607?s=21
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    JBriskin3 said:

    Fuck it-

    Here's my train anecdote-

    After spending [REDACTED] I took the train from London to Aberdeen - and Nick Clegg was on the same train! (getting off near Sheffield presumably)

    I was sitting a few seats away from Nigel fucking Farage some years back between London Victoria and West Dulwich. He alighted there, presumably, to give a talk at the nearby school.
    I was on the same bus as Roy Hattersley in Birmingham in the 90s.

    I saw Michael Foot at Newcastle station back in the 80s.

    Wor Lass used the next door trap to Margaret Beckett in the Ladies at Derby station.

    #Politiciansonpublictransport
    I remember a friend of mine (now sadly deceased) complaining that he’d had to use public transport.

    Apparently he’d had to fire his pilot for swearing at ATC and his helicopter was in for repairs… so he took BA from Belfast to London…

    (The heart bleeds)
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274
    edited October 2021



    I am known for a certain incident with Dominic Cummings.

    Hmmmm
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    Leon said:

    ‘Facebook changes its name to Meta as part of company rebrand’

    Meta? At this point Zuckerberg is trolling the entire world


    https://twitter.com/ap/status/1453791129346977793?s=21

    I watched a short video series about early 20th century anti trust actions, and was struck by the notion that part of it is not just dominance but the impenetrability of corporate structures and practices in a way normal people have no way of following. I know renaming yourself is not really that, but it does feel as a peon that it cannot possibly be the case that all huge corporations need to be so bafflingly obtuse about everything by nature.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,393

    I once literally bumped into Gordon Brown in a packed bar in Manchester. Absolute grizzly bear of a man.

    Charles Clark, the bogs at Norwich City. Resisted urge to shove him, despite tuition fee debacle. I’m the better man.
    William Hague while eating Christmas lunch in Bath, surprised how tall he was.
  • BBC Breaking News

    Facebook changes its name to Meta in major rebrand
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    If HMG had balls they would nationalise Facebook and Google.

    They are vampires.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Omnium said:

    Cicero said:

    GIN1138 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Ange -

    I have been off work over the last couple of weeks after losing a close loved one. Grief is the burden we bear for love and losing someone close is something that we all experience at some point in our lives, but that knowledge doesn’t make it any easier when it happens to you. So I can’t imagine what the family of Sir David Amess are going through, but I know they will be hurting. I send my heartfelt condolences to them. Sir David was a fine parliamentarian, a proud advocate for his constituents and above all such a kind, generous and warm-hearted man. He will be missed on all sides of the House.

    As a society we need to offer better support to people who are going through bereavement, loss and other traumatic or difficult experiences in their personal lives. I hope that the fact that I took time to deal with a bereavement will encourage other people to do the same when they are going through grief or trauma.

    While I have been away from the cut and thrust of Parliament I have reflected on our political debate and the threats and abuse that now seem to feature all too often.

    I have also reflected on what I said at an event at Labour Party conference. I was angry about where our country is headed and policies that have made life harder for so many people I represent. But I would like to unreservedly apologise for the language I used, and I would not use it again.

    I will continue to speak my mind, stand up for Labour values and hold the government to account. But in the future I will be more careful about how I do that and in the language that I choose.

    cont..

    Well done her.

    Ange has certainly gone up a LOT in my mind with this statement.
    Well ok, but she is still only making up lost ground, and can be dismissed as a stupid and unpleasant woman. Otherwise she wouldn't have said it in the first place.
    Everyone makes mistakes. She shouldn't have said it but she's clearly reflected and realized she was in the wrong and has been big enough to say so and apologize unreservedly.

    Hopefully everyone can move on.
    Fine to apologise, but I suspect she really does think the Torres are scum.
    Its hardly a unique opinion.
    I'm a Tory. Am I scum?
    Yes.

    But that's nothing to do with you being a Tory.
    Jabba: "This bounty hunter Tory is my kind of scum - fearless and inventive!"
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,213

    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    That’s a nobly expressed apology from Rayner. Creditable

    Yes it is. Elegant even. But do you believe that she - dunno - misspoke? - and doesn't in fact believe that some Tory MPs and some Tory voters are scum?
    It doesn't matter what she believes. We don't have thought crimes.

    What's important is that she doesn't use her very prominent position to incite hatred.

    If this has made her even a little more congenial towards her parliamentary opponents, and in future she remembers to go for the ball and not the man, it could have an influence on her supporters and do a bit to make politics nicer.
    You think unspoken beliefs don't matter? They drive motivation and intent. You are working with an extreme utilitarianism right there.

  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    WRT Rayner; whilst it is positive that she has apologised and backtracked on the scum remark; the whole episode does not reflect well on her.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,897

    Of course her performance begs the question as to why on earth Starmer had Dodds in as shadow CoE?

    What was he thinking?

    I wondered the same. It indicated more than anything before or since that he didn't fully get this politics lark. Charisma and articulation trump good ideas if indeed Ms Dodd had any good ideas.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Taz said:

    Stocky said:

    Rayner: remember when Natalie Elphicke, Tory MP, apologised saying "I regret messaging privately a rash reaction about Marcus Rashford's missed penalty and apologise to him for any suggestion that he is not fully focused on his football."

    We didn't believe that "apology" did we? I didn't.

    I think it's more reliable to take note of what is originally said by people from all sides as the best window to their souls rather than some apology after the event for whatever reason after reflection.

    I dunno about that - I'm not sure that everything I've ever said was a window on my soul. We all get carried away sometimes. Don't you?

    But also, the death of a close relative is something which can prompt a genuine rethink about how one's going through life. It's a thoughtful statement, devoid of excuses or qualifying clauses, and deserve to be taken as such.
    I completely agree with this Nick. I’m sure we all go through things in life that make us take stock of where we are, who we are and what we are and give us pause for reflect.

    She’s obviously had a tough time recently and her statement deserves to be taken on face value for what it is.
    Really? Oh look, my mum's just pegged it, and I have realised what a complete and utter c--t I am? I am sure there are people who have this kind of revelation, but I'd be really happy with them not being MP s in the first place.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,254
    Charles said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This is a good speech by Biden. Wealthy people should pay their fair share of tax.

    I agree!

    How does he define “wealthy” and “fair share”?
    A good test of a supposedly interesting point is: can the opposite ever be intelligently expressed?

    So, who would ever say ‘the wealthy should NOT pay their fair share of tax’?

    No one. Biden’s is a statement of the bleeding obvious
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    Foxy said:

    Stocky said:

    I once literally bumped into Gordon Brown in a packed bar in Manchester. Absolute grizzly bear of a man.

    Did he have Salmond between his teeth?

    Geddit?
    I hope that doesn't spawn another thread on caviar...
    A below parr pun, for you @Foxy.
  • Only taken two Great British train trips, at least that I recall

    One was from King's Cross (or St Pancras?) to York (where I stopped & stayed overnight) then on to Edinburgh. Recall the great scenery up & down the line, esp at Newcastle, along coast near Berwick & Dunbar, and coming into Waverley Station. Also the walls of York and the architecture of the old railway worker housing near the train station there.

    Did the boat-train deal once from Dublin via Holyhead to London, was rather less charming. IIRC the boat was a night, and I had to change trains in Crewe, with zero or rather conflicting (less than zero) direction from whomever was misdirecting that railway. There'd be some unintelligible (at least to me) announcement, somebody get up swearing, and I got the feeling I should follow them to another platform & train, which turned out to be the right thing to do to actually head in general direction of my destination.

    Plus also did Eurostar from Paris to Waterloo Station, which was interesting as it made its slow, seemingly painful progress toward London, in contrast to the speedy jaunt zooming across the landscape from the Gare du Nord to the French side of the Chunnel. Was rather disappointed there was NOT a sign or something to tell when the train crossed the border. Why not?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,393

    I had that Sean Thomas in the back of my cab once.

    Very interested in my brexit/covid anecdotes he was.

    But that makes you an Albanian taxi driver! We never knew!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    So, is it an admission the Facebook brand is tainted?

    Or that Zuckerbergh has reached that stage of the overpowerful individual where he thinks his gimmicky whims are genius ideas?

    Or part of some dodgy manuevere to evade responsibility for something?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    rcs1000 said:

    Omnium said:

    Cicero said:

    GIN1138 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Ange -

    I have been off work over the last couple of weeks after losing a close loved one. Grief is the burden we bear for love and losing someone close is something that we all experience at some point in our lives, but that knowledge doesn’t make it any easier when it happens to you. So I can’t imagine what the family of Sir David Amess are going through, but I know they will be hurting. I send my heartfelt condolences to them. Sir David was a fine parliamentarian, a proud advocate for his constituents and above all such a kind, generous and warm-hearted man. He will be missed on all sides of the House.

    As a society we need to offer better support to people who are going through bereavement, loss and other traumatic or difficult experiences in their personal lives. I hope that the fact that I took time to deal with a bereavement will encourage other people to do the same when they are going through grief or trauma.

    While I have been away from the cut and thrust of Parliament I have reflected on our political debate and the threats and abuse that now seem to feature all too often.

    I have also reflected on what I said at an event at Labour Party conference. I was angry about where our country is headed and policies that have made life harder for so many people I represent. But I would like to unreservedly apologise for the language I used, and I would not use it again.

    I will continue to speak my mind, stand up for Labour values and hold the government to account. But in the future I will be more careful about how I do that and in the language that I choose.

    cont..

    Well done her.

    Ange has certainly gone up a LOT in my mind with this statement.
    Well ok, but she is still only making up lost ground, and can be dismissed as a stupid and unpleasant woman. Otherwise she wouldn't have said it in the first place.
    Everyone makes mistakes. She shouldn't have said it but she's clearly reflected and realized she was in the wrong and has been big enough to say so and apologize unreservedly.

    Hopefully everyone can move on.
    Fine to apologise, but I suspect she really does think the Torres are scum.
    Its hardly a unique opinion.
    I'm a Tory. Am I scum?
    Yes.

    But that's nothing to do with you being a Tory.
    Jabba: "This bounty hunter Tory is my kind of scum - fearless and inventive!"
    Sunil, I don't know what species is worse. You don't see Tories fucking each other over for a goddam percentage.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,604

    If HMG had balls they would nationalise Facebook and Google.

    They are vampires.

    Nationalise what though? It's not like the Suez canal where Nasser could physically seize it.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,563

    BBC Breaking News

    Facebook changes its name to Meta in major rebrand

    This is the sort of stuff (*) I dislike. 'meta' is a word with a known meaning. It has a definition. Facebook renaming itself is going to lead to them subsuming a perfectly good word - and one embedded within most webpages.

    Google renaming itself 'Alphabet' was bad enough - although that was the umbrella organisation.

    Still, at least Facebook has started to realise how toxic its own brand is becoming.

    (*) I'd say something stronger, but I have two seven year old boys staring over my shoulder... Hi, Alastair! Hi, Robert!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653

    I had that Sean Thomas in the back of my cab once.

    Very interested in my brexit/covid anecdotes he was.

    But that makes you an Albanian taxi driver! We never knew!
    Mate, I could have told him anything and he'd have believed it!
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    IshmaelZ said:

    Taz said:

    Stocky said:

    Rayner: remember when Natalie Elphicke, Tory MP, apologised saying "I regret messaging privately a rash reaction about Marcus Rashford's missed penalty and apologise to him for any suggestion that he is not fully focused on his football."

    We didn't believe that "apology" did we? I didn't.

    I think it's more reliable to take note of what is originally said by people from all sides as the best window to their souls rather than some apology after the event for whatever reason after reflection.

    I dunno about that - I'm not sure that everything I've ever said was a window on my soul. We all get carried away sometimes. Don't you?

    But also, the death of a close relative is something which can prompt a genuine rethink about how one's going through life. It's a thoughtful statement, devoid of excuses or qualifying clauses, and deserve to be taken as such.
    I completely agree with this Nick. I’m sure we all go through things in life that make us take stock of where we are, who we are and what we are and give us pause for reflect.

    She’s obviously had a tough time recently and her statement deserves to be taken on face value for what it is.
    Really? Oh look, my mum's just pegged it, and I have realised what a complete and utter c--t I am? I am sure there are people who have this kind of revelation, but I'd be really happy with them not being MP s in the first place.
    FFS. Have a look at yourself.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,393

    I had that Sean Thomas in the back of my cab once.

    Very interested in my brexit/covid anecdotes he was.

    But that makes you an Albanian taxi driver! We never knew!
    Mate, I could have told him anything and he'd have believed it!
    I think he did! He did become rather obsessed with the Black Death around that time.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    Leon said:

    Charles said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This is a good speech by Biden. Wealthy people should pay their fair share of tax.

    I agree!

    How does he define “wealthy” and “fair share”?
    A good test of a supposedly interesting point is: can the opposite ever be intelligently expressed?

    So, who would ever say ‘the wealthy should NOT pay their fair share of tax’?

    No one. Biden’s is a statement of the bleeding obvious
    I agree completely.

    Now, I assume that there was more to the remarks and he was probably clear that he does not believe the wealthy are currently paying their fair share, and he will make them do so or something, but as a summary of intent the line itself doesn't mean anything.
  • Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    That’s a nobly expressed apology from Rayner. Creditable

    Yes it is. Elegant even. But do you believe that she - dunno - misspoke? - and doesn't in fact believe that some Tory MPs and some Tory voters are scum?
    It doesn't matter what she believes. We don't have thought crimes.

    What's important is that she doesn't use her very prominent position to incite hatred.

    If this has made her even a little more congenial towards her parliamentary opponents, and in future she remembers to go for the ball and not the man, it could have an influence on her supporters and do a bit to make politics nicer.
    You think unspoken beliefs don't matter? They drive motivation and intent. You are working with an extreme utilitarianism right there.

    They don't matter to me.

    And they matter far less to politics than her words and actions.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    Taz said:

    Stocky said:

    Rayner: remember when Natalie Elphicke, Tory MP, apologised saying "I regret messaging privately a rash reaction about Marcus Rashford's missed penalty and apologise to him for any suggestion that he is not fully focused on his football."

    We didn't believe that "apology" did we? I didn't.

    I think it's more reliable to take note of what is originally said by people from all sides as the best window to their souls rather than some apology after the event for whatever reason after reflection.

    I dunno about that - I'm not sure that everything I've ever said was a window on my soul. We all get carried away sometimes. Don't you?

    But also, the death of a close relative is something which can prompt a genuine rethink about how one's going through life. It's a thoughtful statement, devoid of excuses or qualifying clauses, and deserve to be taken as such.
    I completely agree with this Nick. I’m sure we all go through things in life that make us take stock of where we are, who we are and what we are and give us pause for reflect.

    She’s obviously had a tough time recently and her statement deserves to be taken on face value for what it is.
    Really? Oh look, my mum's just pegged it, and I have realised what a complete and utter c--t I am? I am sure there are people who have this kind of revelation, but I'd be really happy with them not being MP s in the first place.
    FFS. Have a look at yourself.
    What?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    If HMG had balls they would nationalise Facebook and Google.

    They are vampires.

    Nationalise what though? It's not like the Suez canal where Nasser could physically seize it.
    The U.K. advertising bits.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    edited October 2021

    BBC Breaking News

    Facebook changes its name to Meta in major rebrand

    This is the sort of stuff (*) I dislike. 'meta' is a word with a known meaning. It has a definition. Facebook renaming itself is going to lead to them subsuming a perfectly good word - and one embedded within most webpages.

    Google renaming itself 'Alphabet' was bad enough - although that was the umbrella organisation.

    Still, at least Facebook has started to realise how toxic its own brand is becoming.

    (*) I'd say something stronger, but I have two seven year old boys staring over my shoulder... Hi, Alastair! Hi, Robert!
    Just wait until they start suing people for using the word meta.

    And Alastair and Robert, stop bothering Josias, he has truth bombs to drop on people on the internet.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,393
    edited October 2021
    kle4 said:

    BBC Breaking News

    Facebook changes its name to Meta in major rebrand

    This is the sort of stuff (*) I dislike. 'meta' is a word with a known meaning. It has a definition. Facebook renaming itself is going to lead to them subsuming a perfectly good word - and one embedded within most webpages.

    Google renaming itself 'Alphabet' was bad enough - although that was the umbrella organisation.

    Still, at least Facebook has started to realise how toxic its own brand is becoming.

    (*) I'd say something stronger, but I have two seven year old boys staring over my shoulder... Hi, Alastair! Hi, Robert!
    Just wait until they start suing people for using the word meta.
    Oh god, my organic aromatic substitution lectures just got complicated...

    And NMR is a second order aromatic coupling now a Facebook coupling?

    Wankers
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    The most underrated train journey IMO in the UK is Newcastle to Aberdeen. 4x hours of amazing coastal scenery, and decent trains.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,871
    Evening all :)

    Planes and trains...

    Both have their time and place - it's possible to fly direct to San Diego (one of my favourite cities) but it's also enjoyable to fly to LA, take the shuttle to Union Station and ride the Pacific Surfliner down to the Old Town Station where the hotel limo is waiting to whisk you off to Mission Beach.

    In the UK, it's a mixed bag - Edinburgh by train can be very pleasant or purgatory - in the pre-Covid times, my proximity to City Airport made a lot of European cities very accessible by plane. I've done day trips to York and Southwell for race meetings and they've been decent.

    However, try flying to Penzance and see how far you get - the train journey on a GWR service in First Class is one of life's pleasures. In former days, they'd serve a Pullman lunch (second sitting for those going beyond Plymouth) and very reasonable it was too. I see they've resumed helicopter flights to the Scillies - that's the only way to travel to the islands. Get an early flight, breakfast in St Mary's and then take the ferry to St Martin for lunch.

    I digress...

    The extent of my "business travel" these days is Oxford or Winchester and getting to either on the train is very reasonable.

    I love long-haul flying and most long-distance train travel though the notion of the Trans-Siberian does nothing for me at all. I remember seeing the old Soviet and East German sleeping cars at Ostend when I got off the jetfoil from Dover in the 1980s. That train was one of those which had different bits going to and from different countries but it was possible to travel through from Ostend to East Berlin and Moscow (I never did).

    Most modern day European train stock is very sleek and comfortable - I believe Czech trains in particular are very good. Swiss trains are wonderful and the Glacier Express is on my bucket list.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631
    kle4 said:

    So, is it an admission the Facebook brand is tainted?

    Or that Zuckerbergh has reached that stage of the overpowerful individual where he thinks his gimmicky whims are genius ideas?

    Or part of some dodgy manuevere to evade responsibility for something?

    Meta is going to be the umbrella company, with Facebook, Instagram and WhatsApp continuing as brands. A bit like Alphabet and Google, I suppose.

    I don't use Facebook or Instagram, but WhatsApp is rather good at work because of its encryption.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    edited October 2021

    I had that Sean Thomas in the back of my cab once.

    Very interested in my brexit/covid anecdotes he was.

    But that makes you an Albanian taxi driver! We never knew!
    Mate, I could have told him anything and he'd have believed it!
    That goes against the cab driver code to only (and always) spew forth your full honest opinions at all times. You have abused your power, sir!
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    JBriskin3 said:

    Ange -

    I have been off work over the last couple of weeks after losing a close loved one. Grief is the burden we bear for love and losing someone close is something that we all experience at some point in our lives, but that knowledge doesn’t make it any easier when it happens to you. So I can’t imagine what the family of Sir David Amess are going through, but I know they will be hurting. I send my heartfelt condolences to them. Sir David was a fine parliamentarian, a proud advocate for his constituents and above all such a kind, generous and warm-hearted man. He will be missed on all sides of the House.

    As a society we need to offer better support to people who are going through bereavement, loss and other traumatic or difficult experiences in their personal lives. I hope that the fact that I took time to deal with a bereavement will encourage other people to do the same when they are going through grief or trauma.

    While I have been away from the cut and thrust of Parliament I have reflected on our political debate and the threats and abuse that now seem to feature all too often.

    I have also reflected on what I said at an event at Labour Party conference. I was angry about where our country is headed and policies that have made life harder for so many people I represent. But I would like to unreservedly apologise for the language I used, and I would not use it again.

    I will continue to speak my mind, stand up for Labour values and hold the government to account. But in the future I will be more careful about how I do that and in the language that I choose.

    cont..

    #RaynerApologises!
    I think that's quite a touching statement. She could have perfunctorily apologised for "any offence caused" or similar half-apologies, but she's clearly thought it through.

    I'd say the same if she was in any other party.
    I agree. It was an impressive piece
  • BBC Breaking News

    Facebook changes its name to Meta in major rebrand

    This is the sort of stuff (*) I dislike. 'meta' is a word with a known meaning. It has a definition. Facebook renaming itself is going to lead to them subsuming a perfectly good word - and one embedded within most webpages.

    Google renaming itself 'Alphabet' was bad enough - although that was the umbrella organisation.

    Still, at least Facebook has started to realise how toxic its own brand is becoming.

    (*) I'd say something stronger, but I have two seven year old boys staring over my shoulder... Hi, Alastair! Hi, Robert!
    Meta is the umbrella name not the platform too.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    That’s a nobly expressed apology from Rayner. Creditable

    Yes it is. Elegant even. But do you believe that she - dunno - misspoke? - and doesn't in fact believe that some Tory MPs and some Tory voters are scum?
    It doesn't matter what she believes. We don't have thought crimes.

    What's important is that she doesn't use her very prominent position to incite hatred.

    If this has made her even a little more congenial towards her parliamentary opponents, and in future she remembers to go for the ball and not the man, it could have an influence on her supporters and do a bit to make politics nicer.
    You think unspoken beliefs don't matter? They drive motivation and intent. You are working with an extreme utilitarianism right there.

    They don't matter to me.

    And they matter far less to politics than her words and actions.
    Indeed.

    Thinking horrible things is not illegal for instance, but acting on them often is. I would rather know what someone thinks even if it is horrible, but it is not as important as what they do.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    kle4 said:

    So, is it an admission the Facebook brand is tainted?

    Or that Zuckerbergh has reached that stage of the overpowerful individual where he thinks his gimmicky whims are genius ideas?

    Or part of some dodgy manuevere to evade responsibility for something?

    From what I can see on the BBC article, there isn't much in it. Facebook the social media platform still remains as it is. They are just changing the name of the umbrella company that owns all sorts of other apps etc from Facebook to Meta, in the same way that google changed its name to alphabet a few years ago.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Trains: I had a really very good Vichyssoise on the way to Exeter once.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,254
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    So, is it an admission the Facebook brand is tainted?

    Or that Zuckerbergh has reached that stage of the overpowerful individual where he thinks his gimmicky whims are genius ideas?

    Or part of some dodgy manuevere to evade responsibility for something?

    Meta is going to be the umbrella company, with Facebook, Instagram and WhatsApp continuing as brands. A bit like Alphabet and Google, I suppose.

    I don't use Facebook or Instagram, but WhatsApp is rather good at work because of its encryption.
    I’m staying in a very plez boutique hotel on the Alentejano coast. As soon as I checked in they asked if I minded using WhatsApp. I said no, and now they communicate with me via that. They gave me all those details you forget as you are shown to your room - breakfast times, Wi-Fi password, parking and dining. Now they send me daily recommendations for food and sightseeing and shopping, and they respond to my questions likewise. It’s very clever and simple and obvious. Of course this is the way to do it

    Why don’t all hotels do this?

    I like WhatsApp, I just wish it wasn’t owned by ‘Meta’
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,563
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    ‘Facebook changes its name to Meta as part of company rebrand’

    Meta? At this point Zuckerberg is trolling the entire world


    https://twitter.com/ap/status/1453791129346977793?s=21

    I watched a short video series about early 20th century anti trust actions, and was struck by the notion that part of it is not just dominance but the impenetrability of corporate structures and practices in a way normal people have no way of following. I know renaming yourself is not really that, but it does feel as a peon that it cannot possibly be the case that all huge corporations need to be so bafflingly obtuse about everything by nature.
    There's a game in perpetual Alpha called 'Star Citizen'. It's rather well-known for having raised over $350 million by selling concept art that might, one day, appear in a game. Its corporate structure seems rather arcane at times, with loads of companies. It has studios in Germany, the US and UK, so it cannot rally have a simple structure, bit even then it seems to have a rather obtuse and weird one, with changing companies, ones becoming defunct and new ones being formed.

    Many people are suspicious about why this may be, and whether it has anything to do with the vast sums raised from gullible fools keen gamers ...
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399
    kle4 said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    That’s a nobly expressed apology from Rayner. Creditable

    Yes it is. Elegant even. But do you believe that she - dunno - misspoke? - and doesn't in fact believe that some Tory MPs and some Tory voters are scum?
    It doesn't matter what she believes. We don't have thought crimes.

    What's important is that she doesn't use her very prominent position to incite hatred.

    If this has made her even a little more congenial towards her parliamentary opponents, and in future she remembers to go for the ball and not the man, it could have an influence on her supporters and do a bit to make politics nicer.
    You think unspoken beliefs don't matter? They drive motivation and intent. You are working with an extreme utilitarianism right there.

    They don't matter to me.

    And they matter far less to politics than her words and actions.
    Indeed.

    Thinking horrible things is not illegal for instance, but acting on them often is. I would rather know what someone thinks even if it is horrible, but it is not as important as what they do.
    If everyone knew what everyone else thought at all times, no one would have any friends or family, I fear.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,897
    Foxy said:

    A friend of mine was in Westminster in the Eighties in a downpour getting drenched, when a man hailed a taxi. He invited her in to share the taxi and dropped her off on the way, after a pleasant chat. It was Tony Benn, and she became quite a convert.

    I once literally bumped into Harold Wilson as an old man in Westminster about the same time. He was very frail looking, but fortunately no injury.

    A coincidence. I also bumped into HW at Euston Station looking bewilldered. I thought I'd get him to sign a BR ticket but I couldn't remember whether he was a Lord a Sir or a Mr. But he didn't look in great condition so he possibly didn't know either.
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