Tonight’s polls in sharp contrast to YouGov’s 10% CON lead – politicalbetting.com

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Scott_xP said:

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 38% (-4)
LAB: 37% (-)
LDEM: 9% (+3)

via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease

Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.

It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

Benpointer said:

FPT:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Scott_xP said:

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 38% (-4)
LAB: 37% (-)
LDEM: 9% (+3)

via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease

Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.

It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

Where's the money coming from Big_G?

another_richard said:

Benpointer said:

FPT:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Scott_xP said:

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 38% (-4)
LAB: 37% (-)
LDEM: 9% (+3)

via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease

Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.

It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

Where's the money coming from Big_G?

From the people spending it

Which there appears to be plenty of currently.

Longer term from rising productivity, that might be trickier.

Sunil_Prasannan said:

I told you YG was an outlier!

Benpointer said:

another_richard said:

Benpointer said:

FPT:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Scott_xP said:

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 38% (-4)
LAB: 37% (-)
LDEM: 9% (+3)

via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease

Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.

It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

Where's the money coming from Big_G?

From the people spending it

Which there appears to be plenty of currently.

Longer term from rising productivity, that might be trickier.

It's going to be very interesting to see what the budget holds, as Big_G says.

The UC cut will actually take quite a lot of money out of the economy; pretty much every penny of UC gets spent within the month it's paid.

dixiedean said:

Benpointer said:

another_richard said:

Benpointer said:

FPT:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Scott_xP said:

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 38% (-4)
LAB: 37% (-)
LDEM: 9% (+3)

via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease

Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.

It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

Where's the money coming from Big_G?

From the people spending it

Which there appears to be plenty of currently.

Longer term from rising productivity, that might be trickier.

It's going to be very interesting to see what the budget holds, as Big_G says.

The UC cut will actually take quite a lot of money out of the economy; pretty much every penny of UC gets spent within the month it's paid.

A huge proportion within the week.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

FPT:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Scott_xP said:

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 38% (-4)
LAB: 37% (-)
LDEM: 9% (+3)

via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease

Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.

It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

Where's the money coming from Big_G?

Exactly

And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

At least on the 27th we may have some idea

Benpointer said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

I told you YG was an outlier!

No shit, Sherlock!

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gallowgate said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

FPT:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Scott_xP said:

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 38% (-4)
LAB: 37% (-)
LDEM: 9% (+3)

via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease

Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.

It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

Where's the money coming from Big_G?

Exactly

And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

At least on the 27th we may have some idea

Easy - from future generations

I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

If not maybe you could expand your view

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gallowgate said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

FPT:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Scott_xP said:

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 38% (-4)
LAB: 37% (-)
LDEM: 9% (+3)

via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease

Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.

It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

Where's the money coming from Big_G?

Exactly

And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

At least on the 27th we may have some idea

Easy - from future generations

I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

If not maybe you could expand your view

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gallowgate said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

FPT:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Scott_xP said:

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 38% (-4)
LAB: 37% (-)
LDEM: 9% (+3)

via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease

Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.

It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

Where's the money coming from Big_G?

Exactly

And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

At least on the 27th we may have some idea

Easy - from future generations

I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

If not maybe you could expand your view

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gallowgate said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

FPT:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Scott_xP said:

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 38% (-4)
LAB: 37% (-)
LDEM: 9% (+3)

via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease

Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.

It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

Where's the money coming from Big_G?

Exactly

And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

At least on the 27th we may have some idea

Easy - from future generations

I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

If not maybe you could expand your view

Well please go to Starmer Labour or the LDs then to pursue your case further as the Tories are not going to remove it as Osborne's raising the IHT thereshold to £1 million was the most popular Tory policy this century, especially in London and the South

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gallowgate said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gallowgate said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

FPT:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Scott_xP said:

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 38% (-4)
LAB: 37% (-)
LDEM: 9% (+3)

via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease

Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.

It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

Where's the money coming from Big_G?

Exactly

And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

At least on the 27th we may have some idea

Easy - from future generations

I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

If not maybe you could expand your view

What I mean is that we'll just continue to borrow to fund the goodies for the oldies whilst removing said goodies from anyone under 60.

I am trying to follow you but you have lost me

Maybe explain your proposals as I am genuinely interested

Big_G_NorthWales said:

dixiedean said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

dixiedean said:

Benpointer said:

another_richard said:

Benpointer said:

FPT:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Scott_xP said:

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 38% (-4)
LAB: 37% (-)
LDEM: 9% (+3)

via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease

Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.

It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

Where's the money coming from Big_G?

From the people spending it

Which there appears to be plenty of currently.

Longer term from rising productivity, that might be trickier.

It's going to be very interesting to see what the budget holds, as Big_G says.

The UC cut will actually take quite a lot of money out of the economy; pretty much every penny of UC gets spent within the month it's paid.

A huge proportion within the week.

The 500 million allocated covers the loss in full for 4 weeks

Hence my comments about Rishi budget

And have any councils begun distribution of this money? On what criteria? Do they even know who is on UC?

The money has been allocated but I cannot advise about distribution

eek said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gallowgate said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

FPT:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Scott_xP said:

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 38% (-4)
LAB: 37% (-)
LDEM: 9% (+3)

via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease

Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.

It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

Where's the money coming from Big_G?

Exactly

And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

At least on the 27th we may have some idea

Easy - from future generations

I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

If not maybe you could expand your view

The only options are borrow more or create a wealth tax - IHT won’t generate much

Benpointer said:

FPT:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Scott_xP said:

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 38% (-4)
LAB: 37% (-)
LDEM: 9% (+3)

via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease

Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.

It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

Where's the money coming from Big_G?

IshmaelZ said:

Benpointer said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

FPT:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Scott_xP said:

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 38% (-4)
LAB: 37% (-)
LDEM: 9% (+3)

via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease

Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.

It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

Where's the money coming from Big_G?

Exactly

And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

At least on the 27th we may have some idea

Yes but Labour have an easier way out if they care to choose it... tax the wealthy.

Rishi needs to tax wealth but then is that enough and how much can you tax wealth before it becomes negative to the economy

Imo you can tax wealth a lot before it starts impacting the economy! Most wealth is doing absolutely nothing for the economy: all that tied up in property for a start.

But the beauty is you really don't need to tax it that much at all to get vast amounts of debt-reducing government income.

PS The Tories will never do it properly because... donors.

It would be even less palatable to the Tory vote than a beefed up inheritance tax, which at least doesn't affect you till you are dead. So it makes no sense to go to a wealth tax rather than beef up iht - scrap the property exemption, abolish the 7 year rule.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gallowgate said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

FPT:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Scott_xP said:

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 38% (-4)
LAB: 37% (-)
LDEM: 9% (+3)

via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease

Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.

It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

Where's the money coming from Big_G?

Exactly

And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

At least on the 27th we may have some idea

Easy - from future generations

I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

If not maybe you could expand your view

Well please go to Starmer Labour or the LDs then to pursue your case further as the Tories are not going to remove it as Osborne's raising the IHT thereshold to £1 million was the most popular Tory policy this century, especially in London and the South

I am being polite as I can when I say you are so boring

And entirely self interest - why should people in the north subside your housing deposit in the south

Big_G_NorthWales said:

dixiedean said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

dixiedean said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

dixiedean said:

Benpointer said:

another_richard said:

Benpointer said:

FPT:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Scott_xP said:

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 38% (-4)
LAB: 37% (-)
LDEM: 9% (+3)

via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease

Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.

It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

Where's the money coming from Big_G?

From the people spending it

Which there appears to be plenty of currently.

Longer term from rising productivity, that might be trickier.

It's going to be very interesting to see what the budget holds, as Big_G says.

The UC cut will actually take quite a lot of money out of the economy; pretty much every penny of UC gets spent within the month it's paid.

A huge proportion within the week.

The 500 million allocated covers the loss in full for 4 weeks

Hence my comments about Rishi budget

And have any councils begun distribution of this money? On what criteria? Do they even know who is on UC?

The money has been allocated but I cannot advise about distribution

No. Because Councils will have to employ folk to draw up a form. And criteria. And assess applications. And, doubtless conduct interviews. And have a decision panel. And an appeals panel.
When they are already skint.
And a primary purpose of UC was supposed to be to reduce red tape. And be done automatically Online. Councils don't even know who is on UC. So there will need to be some kind of advertising budget too.
The idea that this will cover the £20 a week is laughable.
But Tories will love it.

@Benpointer has helpfully posted the scheme

Benpointer said:

IshmaelZ said:

Benpointer said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

FPT:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Scott_xP said:

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 38% (-4)
LAB: 37% (-)
LDEM: 9% (+3)

via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease

Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.

It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

Where's the money coming from Big_G?

Exactly

And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

At least on the 27th we may have some idea

Yes but Labour have an easier way out if they care to choose it... tax the wealthy.

Rishi needs to tax wealth but then is that enough and how much can you tax wealth before it becomes negative to the economy

Imo you can tax wealth a lot before it starts impacting the economy! Most wealth is doing absolutely nothing for the economy: all that tied up in property for a start.

But the beauty is you really don't need to tax it that much at all to get vast amounts of debt-reducing government income.

PS The Tories will never do it properly because... donors.

It would be even less palatable to the Tory vote than a beefed up inheritance tax, which at least doesn't affect you till you are dead. So it makes no sense to go to a wealth tax rather than beef up iht - scrap the property exemption, abolish the 7 year rule.

I accept that the term wealth tax is emotive, but surely the actual impact depends on the threshold? If you set the threshold so that only the top 5% of wealth owners are impacted, and deliver that message clearly, most Tory voters will realise it's not affecting them. The 5% can afford it frankly.

Still not happening though because... Tory donors.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gallowgate said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gallowgate said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gallowgate said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

FPT:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Scott_xP said:

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 38% (-4)
LAB: 37% (-)
LDEM: 9% (+3)

via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease

Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.

It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

Where's the money coming from Big_G?

Exactly

And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

At least on the 27th we may have some idea

Easy - from future generations

I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

If not maybe you could expand your view

What I mean is that we'll just continue to borrow to fund the goodies for the oldies whilst removing said goodies from anyone under 60.

I am trying to follow you but you have lost me

Maybe explain your proposals as I am genuinely interested

It's not a genuine proposal - it's my cynical expectation of what is going to happen.

At the end of the day the Government has to look after their client vote and that means no increase in IHT and no wealth/property tax.

Ergo the only option is to raise taxes further on working people and plan to phase out elderly benefits for future generations, whilst borrowing in the meantime.

I really do not think Rishi has that option

Higher rate pension relief is an obvious target rounded to a flat 25% thereby helping standard rate tax payers but obviously hitting higher rate payers

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gallowgate said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gallowgate said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gallowgate said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

FPT:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Scott_xP said:

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 38% (-4)
LAB: 37% (-)
LDEM: 9% (+3)

via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease

Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.

It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

Where's the money coming from Big_G?

Exactly

And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

At least on the 27th we may have some idea

Easy - from future generations

I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

If not maybe you could expand your view

What I mean is that we'll just continue to borrow to fund the goodies for the oldies whilst removing said goodies from anyone under 60.

I am trying to follow you but you have lost me

Maybe explain your proposals as I am genuinely interested

It's not a genuine proposal - it's my cynical expectation of what is going to happen.

At the end of the day the Government has to look after their client vote and that means no increase in IHT and no wealth/property tax.

Ergo the only option is to raise taxes further on working people and plan to phase out elderly benefits for future generations, whilst borrowing in the meantime.

I really do not think Rishi has that option

Higher rate pension relief is an obvious target rounded to a flat 25% thereby helping standard rate tax payers but obviously hitting higher rate payers

Big_G_NorthWales said:

eek said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gallowgate said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

FPT:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Scott_xP said:

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 38% (-4)
LAB: 37% (-)
LDEM: 9% (+3)

via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease

Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.

It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

Where's the money coming from Big_G?

Exactly

And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

At least on the 27th we may have some idea

Easy - from future generations

I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

If not maybe you could expand your view

The only options are borrow more or create a wealth tax - IHT won’t generate much

As a matter of interest how do you see a wealth tax working

Gallowgate said:

Benpointer said:

IshmaelZ said:

Benpointer said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

FPT:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Scott_xP said:

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 38% (-4)
LAB: 37% (-)
LDEM: 9% (+3)

via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease

Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.

It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

Where's the money coming from Big_G?

Exactly

And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

At least on the 27th we may have some idea

Yes but Labour have an easier way out if they care to choose it... tax the wealthy.

Rishi needs to tax wealth but then is that enough and how much can you tax wealth before it becomes negative to the economy

Imo you can tax wealth a lot before it starts impacting the economy! Most wealth is doing absolutely nothing for the economy: all that tied up in property for a start.

But the beauty is you really don't need to tax it that much at all to get vast amounts of debt-reducing government income.

PS The Tories will never do it properly because... donors.

It would be even less palatable to the Tory vote than a beefed up inheritance tax, which at least doesn't affect you till you are dead. So it makes no sense to go to a wealth tax rather than beef up iht - scrap the property exemption, abolish the 7 year rule.

I accept that the term wealth tax is emotive, but surely the actual impact depends on the threshold? If you set the threshold so that only the top 5% of wealth owners are impacted, and deliver that message clearly, most Tory voters will realise it's not affecting them. The 5% can afford it frankly.

Still not happening though because... Tory donors.

Don't you get it? The Tory party exists to protect private wealth and estates already accumulated. It isn't interested in the country at large, as confirmed by @HYUFD .

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gallowgate said:

Benpointer said:

IshmaelZ said:

Benpointer said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

FPT:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Scott_xP said:

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 38% (-4)
LAB: 37% (-)
LDEM: 9% (+3)

via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease

Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.

It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

Where's the money coming from Big_G?

Exactly

And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

At least on the 27th we may have some idea

Yes but Labour have an easier way out if they care to choose it... tax the wealthy.

Rishi needs to tax wealth but then is that enough and how much can you tax wealth before it becomes negative to the economy

Imo you can tax wealth a lot before it starts impacting the economy! Most wealth is doing absolutely nothing for the economy: all that tied up in property for a start.

But the beauty is you really don't need to tax it that much at all to get vast amounts of debt-reducing government income.

PS The Tories will never do it properly because... donors.

It would be even less palatable to the Tory vote than a beefed up inheritance tax, which at least doesn't affect you till you are dead. So it makes no sense to go to a wealth tax rather than beef up iht - scrap the property exemption, abolish the 7 year rule.

I accept that the term wealth tax is emotive, but surely the actual impact depends on the threshold? If you set the threshold so that only the top 5% of wealth owners are impacted, and deliver that message clearly, most Tory voters will realise it's not affecting them. The 5% can afford it frankly.

Still not happening though because... Tory donors.

Don't you get it? The Tory party exists to protect private wealth and estates already accumulated. It isn't interested in the country at large, as confirmed by @HYUFD .

We are not all like @HYUFD as @NickPalmer explained in a post yesterday

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gallowgate said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gallowgate said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gallowgate said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gallowgate said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

FPT:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Scott_xP said:

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 38% (-4)
LAB: 37% (-)
LDEM: 9% (+3)

via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease

Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.

It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

Where's the money coming from Big_G?

Exactly

And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

At least on the 27th we may have some idea

Easy - from future generations

I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

If not maybe you could expand your view

What I mean is that we'll just continue to borrow to fund the goodies for the oldies whilst removing said goodies from anyone under 60.

I am trying to follow you but you have lost me

Maybe explain your proposals as I am genuinely interested

It's not a genuine proposal - it's my cynical expectation of what is going to happen.

At the end of the day the Government has to look after their client vote and that means no increase in IHT and no wealth/property tax.

Ergo the only option is to raise taxes further on working people and plan to phase out elderly benefits for future generations, whilst borrowing in the meantime.

I really do not think Rishi has that option

Higher rate pension relief is an obvious target rounded to a flat 25% thereby helping standard rate tax payers but obviously hitting higher rate payers

But that's another benefit removed from working people that the retired enjoyed themselves.

It is one suggestion but taxes will rise no matter who is in power as long as we support the NHS, social care, education and climate change

Gallowgate said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gallowgate said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gallowgate said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gallowgate said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gallowgate said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

FPT:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Scott_xP said:

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 38% (-4)
LAB: 37% (-)
LDEM: 9% (+3)

via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease

Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.

It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

Where's the money coming from Big_G?

Exactly

And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

At least on the 27th we may have some idea

Easy - from future generations

I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

If not maybe you could expand your view

What I mean is that we'll just continue to borrow to fund the goodies for the oldies whilst removing said goodies from anyone under 60.

I am trying to follow you but you have lost me

Maybe explain your proposals as I am genuinely interested

It's not a genuine proposal - it's my cynical expectation of what is going to happen.

At the end of the day the Government has to look after their client vote and that means no increase in IHT and no wealth/property tax.

Ergo the only option is to raise taxes further on working people and plan to phase out elderly benefits for future generations, whilst borrowing in the meantime.

I really do not think Rishi has that option

Higher rate pension relief is an obvious target rounded to a flat 25% thereby helping standard rate tax payers but obviously hitting higher rate payers

But that's another benefit removed from working people that the retired enjoyed themselves.

It is one suggestion but taxes will rise no matter who is in power as long as we support the NHS, social care, education and climate change

Why should taxes rise on working people first when it's the older generation with the accumulated property wealth who decided to spunk all of our country's wealth in the first place rather than invest it for future generations?

The absolute arrogance and entitlement is outstanding.

HYUFD said:

Gallowgate said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gallowgate said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gallowgate said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gallowgate said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gallowgate said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

FPT:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Scott_xP said:

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 38% (-4)
LAB: 37% (-)
LDEM: 9% (+3)

via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease

Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.

It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

Where's the money coming from Big_G?

Exactly

And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

At least on the 27th we may have some idea

Easy - from future generations

I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

If not maybe you could expand your view

What I mean is that we'll just continue to borrow to fund the goodies for the oldies whilst removing said goodies from anyone under 60.

I am trying to follow you but you have lost me

Maybe explain your proposals as I am genuinely interested

It's not a genuine proposal - it's my cynical expectation of what is going to happen.

At the end of the day the Government has to look after their client vote and that means no increase in IHT and no wealth/property tax.

Ergo the only option is to raise taxes further on working people and plan to phase out elderly benefits for future generations, whilst borrowing in the meantime.

I really do not think Rishi has that option

Higher rate pension relief is an obvious target rounded to a flat 25% thereby helping standard rate tax payers but obviously hitting higher rate payers

But that's another benefit removed from working people that the retired enjoyed themselves.

It is one suggestion but taxes will rise no matter who is in power as long as we support the NHS, social care, education and climate change

Why should taxes rise on working people first when it's the older generation with the accumulated property wealth who decided to spunk all of our country's wealth in the first place rather than invest it for future generations?

The absolute arrogance and entitlement is outstanding.

They are investing it for future generations for their children and grandchildren to inherit that property wealth, what an asburd statement

Benpointer said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

eek said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gallowgate said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

FPT:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Scott_xP said:

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 38% (-4)
LAB: 37% (-)
LDEM: 9% (+3)

via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease

Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.

It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

Where's the money coming from Big_G?

Exactly

And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

At least on the 27th we may have some idea

Easy - from future generations

I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

If not maybe you could expand your view

The only options are borrow more or create a wealth tax - IHT won’t generate much

As a matter of interest how do you see a wealth tax working

My suggestion: 1% pa on all individual assets over £1m. Legal obligation to self-declare and complete an annual return.

So, assets of £1m = £0 Wealth Tax (WT) pa
Assets of £1.5m = £5k WT pac(£500k over threshold x 1%)
Assets of £2m = £10k WT pa (£1m over threshold x 1%)
Assets of £10m = £90k WT pa
Assets of £101m = £1m WT pa
etc.

HYUFD said:

Stuartinromford said:

Benpointer said:

IshmaelZ said:

Benpointer said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

FPT:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Scott_xP said:

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 38% (-4)
LAB: 37% (-)
LDEM: 9% (+3)

via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease

Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.

It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

Where's the money coming from Big_G?

Exactly

And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

At least on the 27th we may have some idea

Yes but Labour have an easier way out if they care to choose it... tax the wealthy.

Rishi needs to tax wealth but then is that enough and how much can you tax wealth before it becomes negative to the economy

Imo you can tax wealth a lot before it starts impacting the economy! Most wealth is doing absolutely nothing for the economy: all that tied up in property for a start.

But the beauty is you really don't need to tax it that much at all to get vast amounts of debt-reducing government income.

PS The Tories will never do it properly because... donors.

It would be even less palatable to the Tory vote than a beefed up inheritance tax, which at least doesn't affect you till you are dead. So it makes no sense to go to a wealth tax rather than beef up iht - scrap the property exemption, abolish the 7 year rule.

I accept that the term wealth tax is emotive, but surely the actual impact depends on the threshold? If you set the threshold so that only the top 5% of wealth owners are impacted, and deliver that message clearly, most Tory voters will realise it's not affecting them. The 5% can afford it frankly.

Still not happening though because... Tory donors.

Partly donors, but also symbolism.

As @HYUFD reminds us, the raising of the IHT threshold was very popular with Conservative supporters. Not so much because of the amounts to tax paid and saved, but because of what it represented. In many ways, inheritance is a rational time for tax to happen- the deceased has gone to a place where they won't mind and a tax taking a slice of a windfall is less painful than a tax on regular income. But the symbolism grates.

The other tax that falls in the same category is fuel duty. It's been frozen for ages now, to the extent that it's a non-trivial hole in the national finances. We ought to be discouraging driving and encouraging more efficient use of vehicles. But it's untouchable. Partly out of fear of the fuel protests two decades ago, partly because White Van Man is the archetype of a type of Toryism, not to be punished.

Rishi's problem is that the hefty tax rises announced in the Spring Budget (remember those?) and the NI increase announced in September don't look like being enough.

And he's running out of sofas to rummage in for a few more coppers.

We don't need any more tax rises, we are the Conservative party we are already spending quite enough as it is so no more rises in spending and we continue with cuts in overseas aid etc which were protected in the Cameron years.

If voters want more tax and spend they can vote Labour, that is what Labour is for

Gallowgate said:

HYUFD said:

Gallowgate said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gallowgate said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gallowgate said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gallowgate said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gallowgate said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

FPT:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Scott_xP said:

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 38% (-4)
LAB: 37% (-)
LDEM: 9% (+3)

via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease

Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.

It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

Where's the money coming from Big_G?

Exactly

And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

At least on the 27th we may have some idea

Easy - from future generations

I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

If not maybe you could expand your view

What I mean is that we'll just continue to borrow to fund the goodies for the oldies whilst removing said goodies from anyone under 60.

I am trying to follow you but you have lost me

Maybe explain your proposals as I am genuinely interested

It's not a genuine proposal - it's my cynical expectation of what is going to happen.

At the end of the day the Government has to look after their client vote and that means no increase in IHT and no wealth/property tax.

Ergo the only option is to raise taxes further on working people and plan to phase out elderly benefits for future generations, whilst borrowing in the meantime.

I really do not think Rishi has that option

Higher rate pension relief is an obvious target rounded to a flat 25% thereby helping standard rate tax payers but obviously hitting higher rate payers

But that's another benefit removed from working people that the retired enjoyed themselves.

It is one suggestion but taxes will rise no matter who is in power as long as we support the NHS, social care, education and climate change

Why should taxes rise on working people first when it's the older generation with the accumulated property wealth who decided to spunk all of our country's wealth in the first place rather than invest it for future generations?

The absolute arrogance and entitlement is outstanding.

They are investing it for future generations for their children and grandchildren to inherit that property wealth, what an asburd statement

No, they're hoarding it for THEIR children. They pillaged the exchequer and hoarded it for themselves.

I find it quite frankly disgusting.

HYUFD said:

Gallowgate said:

HYUFD said:

Gallowgate said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gallowgate said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gallowgate said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gallowgate said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gallowgate said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

FPT:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Scott_xP said:

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 38% (-4)
LAB: 37% (-)
LDEM: 9% (+3)

via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease

Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.

It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

Where's the money coming from Big_G?

Exactly

And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

At least on the 27th we may have some idea

Easy - from future generations

I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

If not maybe you could expand your view

What I mean is that we'll just continue to borrow to fund the goodies for the oldies whilst removing said goodies from anyone under 60.

I am trying to follow you but you have lost me

Maybe explain your proposals as I am genuinely interested

It's not a genuine proposal - it's my cynical expectation of what is going to happen.

At the end of the day the Government has to look after their client vote and that means no increase in IHT and no wealth/property tax.

Ergo the only option is to raise taxes further on working people and plan to phase out elderly benefits for future generations, whilst borrowing in the meantime.

I really do not think Rishi has that option

Higher rate pension relief is an obvious target rounded to a flat 25% thereby helping standard rate tax payers but obviously hitting higher rate payers

But that's another benefit removed from working people that the retired enjoyed themselves.

It is one suggestion but taxes will rise no matter who is in power as long as we support the NHS, social care, education and climate change

Why should taxes rise on working people first when it's the older generation with the accumulated property wealth who decided to spunk all of our country's wealth in the first place rather than invest it for future generations?

The absolute arrogance and entitlement is outstanding.

They are investing it for future generations for their children and grandchildren to inherit that property wealth, what an asburd statement

No, they're hoarding it for THEIR children. They pillaged the exchequer and hoarded it for themselves.

I find it quite frankly disgusting.

Do I care? No you are not a Tory, why should I, you won't vote for us anyway.

I am a Tory because I believe in the family and inherited wealth in large part

Benpointer said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

eek said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gallowgate said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

FPT:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Scott_xP said:

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 38% (-4)
LAB: 37% (-)
LDEM: 9% (+3)

via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease

Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.

It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

Where's the money coming from Big_G?

Exactly

And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

At least on the 27th we may have some idea

Easy - from future generations

I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

If not maybe you could expand your view

The only options are borrow more or create a wealth tax - IHT won’t generate much

As a matter of interest how do you see a wealth tax working

My suggestion: 1% pa on all individual assets over £1m. Legal obligation to self-declare and complete an annual return.

So, assets of £1m = £0 Wealth Tax (WT) pa
Assets of £1.5m = £5k WT pac(£500k over threshold x 1%)
Assets of £2m = £10k WT pa (£1m over threshold x 1%)
Assets of £10m = £90k WT pa
Assets of £101m = £1m WT pa
etc.

Gallowgate said:

Benpointer said:

IshmaelZ said:

Benpointer said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

FPT:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Scott_xP said:

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 38% (-4)
LAB: 37% (-)
LDEM: 9% (+3)

via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease

Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.

It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

Where's the money coming from Big_G?

Exactly

And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

At least on the 27th we may have some idea

Yes but Labour have an easier way out if they care to choose it... tax the wealthy.

Rishi needs to tax wealth but then is that enough and how much can you tax wealth before it becomes negative to the economy

Imo you can tax wealth a lot before it starts impacting the economy! Most wealth is doing absolutely nothing for the economy: all that tied up in property for a start.

But the beauty is you really don't need to tax it that much at all to get vast amounts of debt-reducing government income.

PS The Tories will never do it properly because... donors.

It would be even less palatable to the Tory vote than a beefed up inheritance tax, which at least doesn't affect you till you are dead. So it makes no sense to go to a wealth tax rather than beef up iht - scrap the property exemption, abolish the 7 year rule.

I accept that the term wealth tax is emotive, but surely the actual impact depends on the threshold? If you set the threshold so that only the top 5% of wealth owners are impacted, and deliver that message clearly, most Tory voters will realise it's not affecting them. The 5% can afford it frankly.

Still not happening though because... Tory donors.

Don't you get it? The Tory party exists to protect private wealth and estates already accumulated. It isn't interested in the country at large, as confirmed by @HYUFD .

HYUFD said:

Stuartinromford said:

Benpointer said:

IshmaelZ said:

Benpointer said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

FPT:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Scott_xP said:

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 38% (-4)
LAB: 37% (-)
LDEM: 9% (+3)

via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease

Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.

It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

Where's the money coming from Big_G?

Exactly

And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

At least on the 27th we may have some idea

Yes but Labour have an easier way out if they care to choose it... tax the wealthy.

Rishi needs to tax wealth but then is that enough and how much can you tax wealth before it becomes negative to the economy

Imo you can tax wealth a lot before it starts impacting the economy! Most wealth is doing absolutely nothing for the economy: all that tied up in property for a start.

But the beauty is you really don't need to tax it that much at all to get vast amounts of debt-reducing government income.

PS The Tories will never do it properly because... donors.

It would be even less palatable to the Tory vote than a beefed up inheritance tax, which at least doesn't affect you till you are dead. So it makes no sense to go to a wealth tax rather than beef up iht - scrap the property exemption, abolish the 7 year rule.

I accept that the term wealth tax is emotive, but surely the actual impact depends on the threshold? If you set the threshold so that only the top 5% of wealth owners are impacted, and deliver that message clearly, most Tory voters will realise it's not affecting them. The 5% can afford it frankly.

Still not happening though because... Tory donors.

Partly donors, but also symbolism.

As @HYUFD reminds us, the raising of the IHT threshold was very popular with Conservative supporters. Not so much because of the amounts to tax paid and saved, but because of what it represented. In many ways, inheritance is a rational time for tax to happen- the deceased has gone to a place where they won't mind and a tax taking a slice of a windfall is less painful than a tax on regular income. But the symbolism grates.

The other tax that falls in the same category is fuel duty. It's been frozen for ages now, to the extent that it's a non-trivial hole in the national finances. We ought to be discouraging driving and encouraging more efficient use of vehicles. But it's untouchable. Partly out of fear of the fuel protests two decades ago, partly because White Van Man is the archetype of a type of Toryism, not to be punished.

Rishi's problem is that the hefty tax rises announced in the Spring Budget (remember those?) and the NI increase announced in September don't look like being enough.

And he's running out of sofas to rummage in for a few more coppers.

We don't need any more tax rises, we are the Conservative party we are already spending quite enough as it is so no more rises in spending and we continue with cuts in overseas aid etc which were protected in the Cameron years.

If voters like BigG want more tax and spend they can vote Starmer Labour, that is what Labour is for

HYUFD said:

Gallowgate said:

HYUFD said:

Stuartinromford said:

Benpointer said:

IshmaelZ said:

Benpointer said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

FPT:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Scott_xP said:

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 38% (-4)
LAB: 37% (-)
LDEM: 9% (+3)

via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease

Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.

It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

Where's the money coming from Big_G?

Exactly

And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

At least on the 27th we may have some idea

Yes but Labour have an easier way out if they care to choose it... tax the wealthy.

Rishi needs to tax wealth but then is that enough and how much can you tax wealth before it becomes negative to the economy

Imo you can tax wealth a lot before it starts impacting the economy! Most wealth is doing absolutely nothing for the economy: all that tied up in property for a start.

But the beauty is you really don't need to tax it that much at all to get vast amounts of debt-reducing government income.

PS The Tories will never do it properly because... donors.

It would be even less palatable to the Tory vote than a beefed up inheritance tax, which at least doesn't affect you till you are dead. So it makes no sense to go to a wealth tax rather than beef up iht - scrap the property exemption, abolish the 7 year rule.

I accept that the term wealth tax is emotive, but surely the actual impact depends on the threshold? If you set the threshold so that only the top 5% of wealth owners are impacted, and deliver that message clearly, most Tory voters will realise it's not affecting them. The 5% can afford it frankly.

Still not happening though because... Tory donors.

Partly donors, but also symbolism.

As @HYUFD reminds us, the raising of the IHT threshold was very popular with Conservative supporters. Not so much because of the amounts to tax paid and saved, but because of what it represented. In many ways, inheritance is a rational time for tax to happen- the deceased has gone to a place where they won't mind and a tax taking a slice of a windfall is less painful than a tax on regular income. But the symbolism grates.

The other tax that falls in the same category is fuel duty. It's been frozen for ages now, to the extent that it's a non-trivial hole in the national finances. We ought to be discouraging driving and encouraging more efficient use of vehicles. But it's untouchable. Partly out of fear of the fuel protests two decades ago, partly because White Van Man is the archetype of a type of Toryism, not to be punished.

Rishi's problem is that the hefty tax rises announced in the Spring Budget (remember those?) and the NI increase announced in September don't look like being enough.

And he's running out of sofas to rummage in for a few more coppers.

We don't need any more tax rises, we are the Conservative party we are already spending quite enough as it is so no more rises in spending and we continue with cuts in overseas aid etc which were protected in the Cameron years.

If voters want more tax and spend they can vote Labour, that is what Labour is for

Tax and spend is the modern Conservative Party whether you like it or not. It's just only the workers who get taxed.

Labour would have put up income tax and IHT too and imposed a wealth tax and spent more than the Tories too

HYUFD said:

Gallowgate said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gallowgate said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gallowgate said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gallowgate said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gallowgate said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

FPT:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Scott_xP said:

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 38% (-4)
LAB: 37% (-)
LDEM: 9% (+3)

via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease

Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.

It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

Where's the money coming from Big_G?

Exactly

And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

At least on the 27th we may have some idea

Easy - from future generations

I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

If not maybe you could expand your view

What I mean is that we'll just continue to borrow to fund the goodies for the oldies whilst removing said goodies from anyone under 60.

I am trying to follow you but you have lost me

Maybe explain your proposals as I am genuinely interested

It's not a genuine proposal - it's my cynical expectation of what is going to happen.

At the end of the day the Government has to look after their client vote and that means no increase in IHT and no wealth/property tax.

Ergo the only option is to raise taxes further on working people and plan to phase out elderly benefits for future generations, whilst borrowing in the meantime.

I really do not think Rishi has that option

Higher rate pension relief is an obvious target rounded to a flat 25% thereby helping standard rate tax payers but obviously hitting higher rate payers

But that's another benefit removed from working people that the retired enjoyed themselves.

It is one suggestion but taxes will rise no matter who is in power as long as we support the NHS, social care, education and climate change

Why should taxes rise on working people first when it's the older generation with the accumulated property wealth who decided to spunk all of our country's wealth in the first place rather than invest it for future generations?

The absolute arrogance and entitlement is outstanding.

They are investing it for future generations for their children and grandchildren to inherit that property wealth, what an absurd statement

darkage said:

Gallowgate said:

Benpointer said:

IshmaelZ said:

Benpointer said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

FPT:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Scott_xP said:

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 38% (-4)
LAB: 37% (-)
LDEM: 9% (+3)

via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease

Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.

It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

Where's the money coming from Big_G?

Exactly

And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

At least on the 27th we may have some idea

Yes but Labour have an easier way out if they care to choose it... tax the wealthy.

Rishi needs to tax wealth but then is that enough and how much can you tax wealth before it becomes negative to the economy

Imo you can tax wealth a lot before it starts impacting the economy! Most wealth is doing absolutely nothing for the economy: all that tied up in property for a start.

But the beauty is you really don't need to tax it that much at all to get vast amounts of debt-reducing government income.

PS The Tories will never do it properly because... donors.

It would be even less palatable to the Tory vote than a beefed up inheritance tax, which at least doesn't affect you till you are dead. So it makes no sense to go to a wealth tax rather than beef up iht - scrap the property exemption, abolish the 7 year rule.

I accept that the term wealth tax is emotive, but surely the actual impact depends on the threshold? If you set the threshold so that only the top 5% of wealth owners are impacted, and deliver that message clearly, most Tory voters will realise it's not affecting them. The 5% can afford it frankly.

Still not happening though because... Tory donors.

Don't you get it? The Tory party exists to protect private wealth and estates already accumulated. It isn't interested in the country at large, as confirmed by @HYUFD .

I must admit that I am not particularly representative of the population at large; but for me the danger constituted by the woke is so intolerable that I am forced to vote for this completely insane bullshit.