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Tonight’s polls in sharp contrast to YouGov’s 10% CON lead – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited October 16 in General
imageTonight’s polls in sharp contrast to YouGov’s 10% CON lead – politicalbetting.com

Boris Johnson’s approval rating as prime minister with Opinium has reached net -18% (32% approve, 50% disapprove), the lowest since the 2019 general election.

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Comments

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 17,834
    edited October 16
    First again - on a roll!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,411
    Second like Labour in every poll bar one this year.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 4,478
    edited October 16
    2nd, like labour still is...
    Edit: damn, gazumped...
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 17,834
    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,411
    Who makes up that 16% Others? Is this a UK poll? Cos that is a lot.
  • FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 21,852

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    From the people spending it :wink:

    Which there appears to be plenty of currently.

    Longer term from rising productivity, that might be trickier.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,602
    Got to say it again squid game is really good. Much more subtle than you'd expect from watching Korean zombie movies.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 17,834

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Yes but Labour have an easier way out if they care to choose it... tax the wealthy.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,586
    I told you YG was an outlier!
  • Does anyone know why YouGov are systematically getting a different reading for the Lab/Green ratings to the others?

    A lot turns on whether the situation is C41L31 (Carrie can start planning the next round of Downing Street redecoration; I recommend plenty of wipe-clean surfaces and rounded edges) and C41L37 (Starmer is making boring but solid post-vaccine progress; C40L38 is probably enough to make the next government a Coalition of Chaos).
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 17,834

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    From the people spending it :wink:

    Which there appears to be plenty of currently.

    Longer term from rising productivity, that might be trickier.
    It's going to be very interesting to see what the budget holds, as Big_G says.

    The UC cut will actually take quite a lot of money out of the economy; pretty much every penny of UC gets spent within the month it's paid.
  • FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Yes but Labour have an easier way out if they care to choose it... tax the wealthy.
    Rishi needs to tax wealth but then is that enough and how much can you tax wealth before it becomes negative to the economy
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 17,834
    edited October 16

    I told you YG was an outlier!

    No shit, Sherlock!
  • FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    From the people spending it :wink:

    Which there appears to be plenty of currently.

    Longer term from rising productivity, that might be trickier.
    It's going to be very interesting to see what the budget holds, as Big_G says.

    The UC cut will actually take quite a lot of money out of the economy; pretty much every penny of UC gets spent within the month it's paid.
    500 million has been allocated to councils to assist in the immediate problem and we need to watch how Rishi intends to ameliorate it going forward, if he does
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,411

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    From the people spending it :wink:

    Which there appears to be plenty of currently.

    Longer term from rising productivity, that might be trickier.
    It's going to be very interesting to see what the budget holds, as Big_G says.

    The UC cut will actually take quite a lot of money out of the economy; pretty much every penny of UC gets spent within the month it's paid.
    A huge proportion within the week.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 17,834
    edited October 16

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Yes but Labour have an easier way out if they care to choose it... tax the wealthy.
    Rishi needs to tax wealth but then is that enough and how much can you tax wealth before it becomes negative to the economy
    Imo you can tax wealth a lot before it starts impacting the economy! Most wealth is doing absolutely nothing for the economy: all that tied up in property for a start.

    But the beauty is you really don't need to tax it that much at all to get vast amounts of debt-reducing government income.

    PS The Tories will never do it properly because... donors.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 17,834
    dixiedean said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    From the people spending it :wink:

    Which there appears to be plenty of currently.

    Longer term from rising productivity, that might be trickier.
    It's going to be very interesting to see what the budget holds, as Big_G says.

    The UC cut will actually take quite a lot of money out of the economy; pretty much every penny of UC gets spent within the month it's paid.
    A huge proportion within the week.
    Agreed, even though it's paid monthly.
  • dixiedean said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    From the people spending it :wink:

    Which there appears to be plenty of currently.

    Longer term from rising productivity, that might be trickier.
    It's going to be very interesting to see what the budget holds, as Big_G says.

    The UC cut will actually take quite a lot of money out of the economy; pretty much every penny of UC gets spent within the month it's paid.
    A huge proportion within the week.
    The 500 million allocated covers the loss in full for 4 weeks

    Hence my comments about Rishi budget
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,853

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Easy - from future generations
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,411

    dixiedean said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    From the people spending it :wink:

    Which there appears to be plenty of currently.

    Longer term from rising productivity, that might be trickier.
    It's going to be very interesting to see what the budget holds, as Big_G says.

    The UC cut will actually take quite a lot of money out of the economy; pretty much every penny of UC gets spent within the month it's paid.
    A huge proportion within the week.
    The 500 million allocated covers the loss in full for 4 weeks

    Hence my comments about Rishi budget
    And have any councils begun distribution of this money? On what criteria? Do they even know who is on UC?
  • isamisam Posts: 38,446

    I told you YG was an outlier!

    No shit, Sherlock!
    Not as big an outlier as Kantars 43-30
  • FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Easy - from future generations
    I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

    If not maybe you could expand your view
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,853

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Easy - from future generations
    I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

    If not maybe you could expand your view
    What I mean is that we'll just continue to borrow to fund the goodies for the oldies whilst removing said goodies from anyone under 60.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,602

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Yes but Labour have an easier way out if they care to choose it... tax the wealthy.
    Rishi needs to tax wealth but then is that enough and how much can you tax wealth before it becomes negative to the economy
    Imo you can tax wealth a lot before it starts impacting the economy! Most wealth is doing absolutely nothing for the economy: all that tied up in property for a start.

    But the beauty is you really don't need to tax it that much at all to get vast amounts of debt-reducing government income.

    PS The Tories will never do it properly because... donors.
    It would be even less palatable to the Tory vote than a beefed up inheritance tax, which at least doesn't affect you till you are dead. So it makes no sense to go to a wealth tax rather than beef up iht - scrap the property exemption, abolish the 7 year rule.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,389
    edited October 16

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Easy - from future generations
    I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

    If not maybe you could expand your view
    Well please go to Starmer Labour or the LDs then to pursue your case further as the Tories are not going to remove it as Osborne's raising the IHT thereshold to £1 million for married couples was the most popular Tory policy this century, especially in London and the South
  • dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    From the people spending it :wink:

    Which there appears to be plenty of currently.

    Longer term from rising productivity, that might be trickier.
    It's going to be very interesting to see what the budget holds, as Big_G says.

    The UC cut will actually take quite a lot of money out of the economy; pretty much every penny of UC gets spent within the month it's paid.
    A huge proportion within the week.
    The 500 million allocated covers the loss in full for 4 weeks

    Hence my comments about Rishi budget
    And have any councils begun distribution of this money? On what criteria? Do they even know who is on UC?
    The money has been allocated but I cannot advise about distribution

  • eekeek Posts: 15,746

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Easy - from future generations
    I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

    If not maybe you could expand your view
    The only options are borrow more or create a wealth tax - IHT won’t generate much
  • FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Easy - from future generations
    I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

    If not maybe you could expand your view
    What I mean is that we'll just continue to borrow to fund the goodies for the oldies whilst removing said goodies from anyone under 60.
    I am trying to follow you but you have lost me

    Maybe explain your proposals as I am genuinely interested
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,239
    edited October 16
    HYUFD said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Easy - from future generations
    I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

    If not maybe you could expand your view
    Well please go to Starmer Labour or the LDs then to pursue your case further as the Tories are not going to remove it as Osborne's raising the IHT thereshold to £1 million was the most popular Tory policy this century, especially in London and the South
    I am being polite as I can when I say you are so boring

    And entirely self interest - why should people in the north subside your housing deposit in the south
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,602
    eek said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Easy - from future generations
    I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

    If not maybe you could expand your view
    The only options are borrow more or create a wealth tax - IHT won’t generate much
    Why not? All wealth gets inherited one way or another.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,853
    edited October 16

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Easy - from future generations
    I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

    If not maybe you could expand your view
    What I mean is that we'll just continue to borrow to fund the goodies for the oldies whilst removing said goodies from anyone under 60.
    I am trying to follow you but you have lost me

    Maybe explain your proposals as I am genuinely interested
    It's not a genuine proposal - it's my cynical expectation of what is going to happen.

    At the end of the day the Government has to look after their client vote and that means no increase in IHT and no wealth/property tax.

    Ergo the only option is to raise taxes further on working people and plan to phase out elderly benefits for future generations, whilst borrowing in the meantime.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 17,834

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    From the people spending it :wink:

    Which there appears to be plenty of currently.

    Longer term from rising productivity, that might be trickier.
    It's going to be very interesting to see what the budget holds, as Big_G says.

    The UC cut will actually take quite a lot of money out of the economy; pretty much every penny of UC gets spent within the month it's paid.
    A huge proportion within the week.
    The 500 million allocated covers the loss in full for 4 weeks

    Hence my comments about Rishi budget
    And have any councils begun distribution of this money? On what criteria? Do they even know who is on UC?
    The money has been allocated but I cannot advise about distribution

    According to gov.uk:

    "Vulnerable households across the country will be able to access a new £500m support fund to help them with essentials over the coming months as the country continues its recovery from the pandemic.

    The new Household Support Fund will support millions of households in England and will be distributed by councils in England, who know their local areas best and can directly help those who need it most, including for example, through small grants to meet daily needs such as food, clothing, and utilities. Cash will be made available to Local Authorities in October 2021."


    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-launches-500m-support-for-vulnerable-households-over-winter

    Sounds like a bit of a recipe for bureacracy but we'll see.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,411
    edited October 16

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    From the people spending it :wink:

    Which there appears to be plenty of currently.

    Longer term from rising productivity, that might be trickier.
    It's going to be very interesting to see what the budget holds, as Big_G says.

    The UC cut will actually take quite a lot of money out of the economy; pretty much every penny of UC gets spent within the month it's paid.
    A huge proportion within the week.
    The 500 million allocated covers the loss in full for 4 weeks

    Hence my comments about Rishi budget
    And have any councils begun distribution of this money? On what criteria? Do they even know who is on UC?
    The money has been allocated but I cannot advise about distribution

    No. Because Councils will have to employ folk to draw up a form. And criteria. And assess applications. And, doubtless conduct interviews. And have a decision panel. And an appeals panel.
    When they are already skint.
    And a primary purpose of UC was supposed to be to reduce red tape. And be done automatically Online. Councils don't even know who is on UC. So there will need to be some kind of advertising budget too.
    The idea that this will cover the £20 a week is laughable.
    But Tories will love it.
  • eek said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Easy - from future generations
    I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

    If not maybe you could expand your view
    The only options are borrow more or create a wealth tax - IHT won’t generate much
    As a matter of interest how do you see a wealth tax working
  • FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Easy - from future generations
    I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

    If not maybe you could expand your view
    What I mean is that we'll just continue to borrow to fund the goodies for the oldies whilst removing said goodies from anyone under 60.
    I am trying to follow you but you have lost me

    Maybe explain your proposals as I am genuinely interested
    It's not a genuine proposal - it's my cynical expectation of what is going to happen.

    At the end of the day the Government has to look after their client vote and that means no increase in IHT and no wealth/property tax.

    Ergo the only option is to raise taxes further on working people and plan to phase out elderly benefits for future generations, whilst borrowing in the meantime.
    I really do not think Rishi has that option

    Higher rate pension relief is an obvious target rounded to a flat 25% thereby helping standard rate tax payers but obviously hitting higher rate payers
  • OldBasingOldBasing Posts: 52

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    From the taxes of Boomer BigG’s children and grandchildren.
  • dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    From the people spending it :wink:

    Which there appears to be plenty of currently.

    Longer term from rising productivity, that might be trickier.
    It's going to be very interesting to see what the budget holds, as Big_G says.

    The UC cut will actually take quite a lot of money out of the economy; pretty much every penny of UC gets spent within the month it's paid.
    A huge proportion within the week.
    The 500 million allocated covers the loss in full for 4 weeks

    Hence my comments about Rishi budget
    And have any councils begun distribution of this money? On what criteria? Do they even know who is on UC?
    The money has been allocated but I cannot advise about distribution

    According to gov.uk:

    "Vulnerable households across the country will be able to access a new £500m support fund to help them with essentials over the coming months as the country continues its recovery from the pandemic.

    The new Household Support Fund will support millions of households in England and will be distributed by councils in England, who know their local areas best and can directly help those who need it most, including for example, through small grants to meet daily needs such as food, clothing, and utilities. Cash will be made available to Local Authorities in October 2021."


    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-launches-500m-support-for-vulnerable-households-over-winter

    Sounds like a bit of a recipe for bureacracy but we'll see.
    Thanks for posting that info
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 17,834
    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Yes but Labour have an easier way out if they care to choose it... tax the wealthy.
    Rishi needs to tax wealth but then is that enough and how much can you tax wealth before it becomes negative to the economy
    Imo you can tax wealth a lot before it starts impacting the economy! Most wealth is doing absolutely nothing for the economy: all that tied up in property for a start.

    But the beauty is you really don't need to tax it that much at all to get vast amounts of debt-reducing government income.

    PS The Tories will never do it properly because... donors.
    It would be even less palatable to the Tory vote than a beefed up inheritance tax, which at least doesn't affect you till you are dead. So it makes no sense to go to a wealth tax rather than beef up iht - scrap the property exemption, abolish the 7 year rule.
    I accept that the term wealth tax is emotive, but surely the actual impact depends on the threshold? If you set the threshold so that only the top 5% of wealth owners are impacted, and deliver that message clearly, most Tory voters will realise it's not affecting them. The 5% can afford it frankly.

    Still not happening though because... Tory donors.
  • dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    From the people spending it :wink:

    Which there appears to be plenty of currently.

    Longer term from rising productivity, that might be trickier.
    It's going to be very interesting to see what the budget holds, as Big_G says.

    The UC cut will actually take quite a lot of money out of the economy; pretty much every penny of UC gets spent within the month it's paid.
    A huge proportion within the week.
    The 500 million allocated covers the loss in full for 4 weeks

    Hence my comments about Rishi budget
    And have any councils begun distribution of this money? On what criteria? Do they even know who is on UC?
    The money has been allocated but I cannot advise about distribution

    No. Because Councils will have to employ folk to draw up a form. And criteria. And assess applications. And, doubtless conduct interviews. And have a decision panel. And an appeals panel.
    When they are already skint.
    And a primary purpose of UC was supposed to be to reduce red tape. And be done automatically Online. Councils don't even know who is on UC. So there will need to be some kind of advertising budget too.
    The idea that this will cover the £20 a week is laughable.
    But Tories will love it.
    @Benpointer has helpfully posted the scheme
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,389
    edited October 16

    HYUFD said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Easy - from future generations
    I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

    If not maybe you could expand your view
    Well please go to Starmer Labour or the LDs then to pursue your case further as the Tories are not going to remove it as Osborne's raising the IHT thereshold to £1 million was the most popular Tory policy this century, especially in London and the South
    I am being polite as I can when I say you are so boring

    And entirely self interest - why should people in the north subside your housing deposit in the south
    People in the North and Midlands and Scotland and Wales and NI on average incomes have far lower costs of living than in the South and can afford to buy a property on an average wage.

    People on an average wage in most of London and much of the South East need to inherit or have parental assistance to help them be able to afford the deposit and be able to buy a property
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 1,261
    Just got in from the pub.

    I see from Sky News that LAB and LD will not be standing in Southend W. As a moderate working class Conservative I appreciate this from the opposition. I also appreciate the appearance of Keir and the Speaker in Leigh on Sea today.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,411
    edited October 16

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    From the people spending it :wink:

    Which there appears to be plenty of currently.

    Longer term from rising productivity, that might be trickier.
    It's going to be very interesting to see what the budget holds, as Big_G says.

    The UC cut will actually take quite a lot of money out of the economy; pretty much every penny of UC gets spent within the month it's paid.
    A huge proportion within the week.
    The 500 million allocated covers the loss in full for 4 weeks

    Hence my comments about Rishi budget
    And have any councils begun distribution of this money? On what criteria? Do they even know who is on UC?
    The money has been allocated but I cannot advise about distribution

    No. Because Councils will have to employ folk to draw up a form. And criteria. And assess applications. And, doubtless conduct interviews. And have a decision panel. And an appeals panel.
    When they are already skint.
    And a primary purpose of UC was supposed to be to reduce red tape. And be done automatically Online. Councils don't even know who is on UC. So there will need to be some kind of advertising budget too.
    The idea that this will cover the £20 a week is laughable.
    But Tories will love it.
    @Benpointer has helpfully posted the scheme
    Yes.
    And I've posted how it will be administered.
    Do you think someone will have a bag of cash and just give it to anyone who turns up?
    It's piling more logs on the bonfire of red tape.
    And not setting fire to it.
  • OldBasing said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    From the taxes of Boomer BigG’s children and grandchildren.
    Actually my son in law retires on the 31st December so he becomes a pensioner as well
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,853

    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Yes but Labour have an easier way out if they care to choose it... tax the wealthy.
    Rishi needs to tax wealth but then is that enough and how much can you tax wealth before it becomes negative to the economy
    Imo you can tax wealth a lot before it starts impacting the economy! Most wealth is doing absolutely nothing for the economy: all that tied up in property for a start.

    But the beauty is you really don't need to tax it that much at all to get vast amounts of debt-reducing government income.

    PS The Tories will never do it properly because... donors.
    It would be even less palatable to the Tory vote than a beefed up inheritance tax, which at least doesn't affect you till you are dead. So it makes no sense to go to a wealth tax rather than beef up iht - scrap the property exemption, abolish the 7 year rule.
    I accept that the term wealth tax is emotive, but surely the actual impact depends on the threshold? If you set the threshold so that only the top 5% of wealth owners are impacted, and deliver that message clearly, most Tory voters will realise it's not affecting them. The 5% can afford it frankly.

    Still not happening though because... Tory donors.
    Don't you get it? The Tory party exists to protect private wealth and estates already accumulated. It isn't interested in the country at large, as confirmed by @HYUFD .
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Easy - from future generations
    I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

    If not maybe you could expand your view
    Well please go to Starmer Labour or the LDs then to pursue your case further as the Tories are not going to remove it as Osborne's raising the IHT thereshold to £1 million was the most popular Tory policy this century, especially in London and the South
    I am being polite as I can when I say you are so boring

    And entirely self interest - why should people in the north subside your housing deposit in the south
    People in the North and Midlands and Scotland and Wales and NI on average incomes have far lower costs of living than in the South and can afford to buy a property on an average wage.

    People on an average wage in most of London and much of the South East need to inherit or have parental assistance to help them be able to afford the deposit and be able to buy a property
    That is not how the tax system should work
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 1,261

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Easy - from future generations
    I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

    If not maybe you could expand your view
    What I mean is that we'll just continue to borrow to fund the goodies for the oldies whilst removing said goodies from anyone under 60.
    I am trying to follow you but you have lost me

    Maybe explain your proposals as I am genuinely interested
    It's not a genuine proposal - it's my cynical expectation of what is going to happen.

    At the end of the day the Government has to look after their client vote and that means no increase in IHT and no wealth/property tax.

    Ergo the only option is to raise taxes further on working people and plan to phase out elderly benefits for future generations, whilst borrowing in the meantime.
    I really do not think Rishi has that option

    Higher rate pension relief is an obvious target rounded to a flat 25% thereby helping standard rate tax payers but obviously hitting higher rate payers
    But surely that will put the cost of pension tax relief up as most people are on basic rate tax only. Maybe I am missing something here. Needs to be at 20% only. It is easy to calculate even for defined benefit schemes.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Yes but Labour have an easier way out if they care to choose it... tax the wealthy.
    Rishi needs to tax wealth but then is that enough and how much can you tax wealth before it becomes negative to the economy
    Imo you can tax wealth a lot before it starts impacting the economy! Most wealth is doing absolutely nothing for the economy: all that tied up in property for a start.

    But the beauty is you really don't need to tax it that much at all to get vast amounts of debt-reducing government income.

    PS The Tories will never do it properly because... donors.
    It would be even less palatable to the Tory vote than a beefed up inheritance tax, which at least doesn't affect you till you are dead. So it makes no sense to go to a wealth tax rather than beef up iht - scrap the property exemption, abolish the 7 year rule.
    I accept that the term wealth tax is emotive, but surely the actual impact depends on the threshold? If you set the threshold so that only the top 5% of wealth owners are impacted, and deliver that message clearly, most Tory voters will realise it's not affecting them. The 5% can afford it frankly.

    Still not happening though because... Tory donors.
    Can you define the top 5% of wealth owners
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,853

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Easy - from future generations
    I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

    If not maybe you could expand your view
    What I mean is that we'll just continue to borrow to fund the goodies for the oldies whilst removing said goodies from anyone under 60.
    I am trying to follow you but you have lost me

    Maybe explain your proposals as I am genuinely interested
    It's not a genuine proposal - it's my cynical expectation of what is going to happen.

    At the end of the day the Government has to look after their client vote and that means no increase in IHT and no wealth/property tax.

    Ergo the only option is to raise taxes further on working people and plan to phase out elderly benefits for future generations, whilst borrowing in the meantime.
    I really do not think Rishi has that option

    Higher rate pension relief is an obvious target rounded to a flat 25% thereby helping standard rate tax payers but obviously hitting higher rate payers
    But that's another benefit removed from working people that the retired enjoyed themselves.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Yes but Labour have an easier way out if they care to choose it... tax the wealthy.
    Rishi needs to tax wealth but then is that enough and how much can you tax wealth before it becomes negative to the economy
    Imo you can tax wealth a lot before it starts impacting the economy! Most wealth is doing absolutely nothing for the economy: all that tied up in property for a start.

    But the beauty is you really don't need to tax it that much at all to get vast amounts of debt-reducing government income.

    PS The Tories will never do it properly because... donors.
    It would be even less palatable to the Tory vote than a beefed up inheritance tax, which at least doesn't affect you till you are dead. So it makes no sense to go to a wealth tax rather than beef up iht - scrap the property exemption, abolish the 7 year rule.
    I accept that the term wealth tax is emotive, but surely the actual impact depends on the threshold? If you set the threshold so that only the top 5% of wealth owners are impacted, and deliver that message clearly, most Tory voters will realise it's not affecting them. The 5% can afford it frankly.

    Still not happening though because... Tory donors.
    Don't you get it? The Tory party exists to protect private wealth and estates already accumulated. It isn't interested in the country at large, as confirmed by @HYUFD .
    We are not all like @HYUFD as @NickPalmer explained in a post yesterday
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 17,834
    edited October 16

    eek said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Easy - from future generations
    I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

    If not maybe you could expand your view
    The only options are borrow more or create a wealth tax - IHT won’t generate much
    As a matter of interest how do you see a wealth tax working
    My suggestion: 1% pa on all individual assets over £1m. Legal obligation to self-declare and complete an annual return.

    So, assets of £1m = £0 Wealth Tax (WT) pa
    Assets of £1.5m = £5k WT pac(£500k over threshold x 1%)
    Assets of £2m = £10k WT pa (£1m over threshold x 1%)
    Assets of £10m = £90k WT pa
    Assets of £101m = £1m WT pa
    etc.
  • FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Easy - from future generations
    I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

    If not maybe you could expand your view
    What I mean is that we'll just continue to borrow to fund the goodies for the oldies whilst removing said goodies from anyone under 60.
    I am trying to follow you but you have lost me

    Maybe explain your proposals as I am genuinely interested
    It's not a genuine proposal - it's my cynical expectation of what is going to happen.

    At the end of the day the Government has to look after their client vote and that means no increase in IHT and no wealth/property tax.

    Ergo the only option is to raise taxes further on working people and plan to phase out elderly benefits for future generations, whilst borrowing in the meantime.
    I really do not think Rishi has that option

    Higher rate pension relief is an obvious target rounded to a flat 25% thereby helping standard rate tax payers but obviously hitting higher rate payers
    But that's another benefit removed from working people that the retired enjoyed themselves.
    It is one suggestion but taxes will rise no matter who is in power as long as we support the NHS, social care, education and climate change
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 17,834

    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Yes but Labour have an easier way out if they care to choose it... tax the wealthy.
    Rishi needs to tax wealth but then is that enough and how much can you tax wealth before it becomes negative to the economy
    Imo you can tax wealth a lot before it starts impacting the economy! Most wealth is doing absolutely nothing for the economy: all that tied up in property for a start.

    But the beauty is you really don't need to tax it that much at all to get vast amounts of debt-reducing government income.

    PS The Tories will never do it properly because... donors.
    It would be even less palatable to the Tory vote than a beefed up inheritance tax, which at least doesn't affect you till you are dead. So it makes no sense to go to a wealth tax rather than beef up iht - scrap the property exemption, abolish the 7 year rule.
    I accept that the term wealth tax is emotive, but surely the actual impact depends on the threshold? If you set the threshold so that only the top 5% of wealth owners are impacted, and deliver that message clearly, most Tory voters will realise it's not affecting them. The 5% can afford it frankly.

    Still not happening though because... Tory donors.
    Don't you get it? The Tory party exists to protect private wealth and estates already accumulated. It isn't interested in the country at large, as confirmed by @HYUFD .
    I do indeed get it. Hence I never vote Tory and hence my final line.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 725
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Easy - from future generations
    I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

    If not maybe you could expand your view
    Well please go to Starmer Labour or the LDs then to pursue your case further as the Tories are not going to remove it as Osborne's raising the IHT thereshold to £1 million was the most popular Tory policy this century, especially in London and the South
    I am being polite as I can when I say you are so boring

    And entirely self interest - why should people in the north subside your housing deposit in the south
    People in the North and Midlands and Scotland and Wales and NI on average incomes have far lower costs of living than in the South and can afford to buy a property on an average wage.

    People on an average wage in most of London and much of the South East need to inherit or have parental assistance to help them be able to afford the deposit and be able to buy a property
    I feel sorry for ordinary hard working people in London and the South East looking to buy their first home. If the Conservatives could sort this without losing the votes of Nimbys they would be in power for the forseeable future.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 17,834

    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Yes but Labour have an easier way out if they care to choose it... tax the wealthy.
    Rishi needs to tax wealth but then is that enough and how much can you tax wealth before it becomes negative to the economy
    Imo you can tax wealth a lot before it starts impacting the economy! Most wealth is doing absolutely nothing for the economy: all that tied up in property for a start.

    But the beauty is you really don't need to tax it that much at all to get vast amounts of debt-reducing government income.

    PS The Tories will never do it properly because... donors.
    It would be even less palatable to the Tory vote than a beefed up inheritance tax, which at least doesn't affect you till you are dead. So it makes no sense to go to a wealth tax rather than beef up iht - scrap the property exemption, abolish the 7 year rule.
    I accept that the term wealth tax is emotive, but surely the actual impact depends on the threshold? If you set the threshold so that only the top 5% of wealth owners are impacted, and deliver that message clearly, most Tory voters will realise it's not affecting them. The 5% can afford it frankly.

    Still not happening though because... Tory donors.
    Don't you get it? The Tory party exists to protect private wealth and estates already accumulated. It isn't interested in the country at large, as confirmed by @HYUFD .
    We are not all like @HYUFD as @NickPalmer explained in a post yesterday
    I thought you'd left the Tory part Big_G?
  • IshmaelZ said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Yes but Labour have an easier way out if they care to choose it... tax the wealthy.
    Rishi needs to tax wealth but then is that enough and how much can you tax wealth before it becomes negative to the economy
    Imo you can tax wealth a lot before it starts impacting the economy! Most wealth is doing absolutely nothing for the economy: all that tied up in property for a start.

    But the beauty is you really don't need to tax it that much at all to get vast amounts of debt-reducing government income.

    PS The Tories will never do it properly because... donors.
    It would be even less palatable to the Tory vote than a beefed up inheritance tax, which at least doesn't affect you till you are dead. So it makes no sense to go to a wealth tax rather than beef up iht - scrap the property exemption, abolish the 7 year rule.
    I accept that the term wealth tax is emotive, but surely the actual impact depends on the threshold? If you set the threshold so that only the top 5% of wealth owners are impacted, and deliver that message clearly, most Tory voters will realise it's not affecting them. The 5% can afford it frankly.

    Still not happening though because... Tory donors.
    Partly donors, but also symbolism.

    As @HYUFD reminds us, the raising of the IHT threshold was very popular with Conservative supporters. Not so much because of the amounts to tax paid and saved, but because of what it represented. In many ways, inheritance is a rational time for tax to happen- the deceased has gone to a place where they won't mind and a tax taking a slice of a windfall is less painful than a tax on regular income. But the symbolism grates.

    The other tax that falls in the same category is fuel duty. It's been frozen for ages now, to the extent that it's a non-trivial hole in the national finances. We ought to be discouraging driving and encouraging more efficient use of vehicles. But it's untouchable. Partly out of fear of the fuel protests two decades ago, partly because White Van Man is the archetype of a type of Toryism, not to be punished.

    Rishi's problem is that the hefty tax rises announced in the Spring Budget (remember those?) and the NI increase announced in September don't look like being enough.

    And he's running out of sofas to rummage in for a few more coppers.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,853

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Easy - from future generations
    I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

    If not maybe you could expand your view
    What I mean is that we'll just continue to borrow to fund the goodies for the oldies whilst removing said goodies from anyone under 60.
    I am trying to follow you but you have lost me

    Maybe explain your proposals as I am genuinely interested
    It's not a genuine proposal - it's my cynical expectation of what is going to happen.

    At the end of the day the Government has to look after their client vote and that means no increase in IHT and no wealth/property tax.

    Ergo the only option is to raise taxes further on working people and plan to phase out elderly benefits for future generations, whilst borrowing in the meantime.
    I really do not think Rishi has that option

    Higher rate pension relief is an obvious target rounded to a flat 25% thereby helping standard rate tax payers but obviously hitting higher rate payers
    But that's another benefit removed from working people that the retired enjoyed themselves.
    It is one suggestion but taxes will rise no matter who is in power as long as we support the NHS, social care, education and climate change
    Why should taxes rise on working people first when it's the older generation with the accumulated property wealth who decided to spunk all of our country's wealth in the first place rather than invest it for future generations?

    The absolute arrogance and entitlement is outstanding.
  • FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Easy - from future generations
    I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

    If not maybe you could expand your view
    What I mean is that we'll just continue to borrow to fund the goodies for the oldies whilst removing said goodies from anyone under 60.
    I am trying to follow you but you have lost me

    Maybe explain your proposals as I am genuinely interested
    It's not a genuine proposal - it's my cynical expectation of what is going to happen.

    At the end of the day the Government has to look after their client vote and that means no increase in IHT and no wealth/property tax.

    Ergo the only option is to raise taxes further on working people and plan to phase out elderly benefits for future generations, whilst borrowing in the meantime.
    I really do not think Rishi has that option

    Higher rate pension relief is an obvious target rounded to a flat 25% thereby helping standard rate tax payers but obviously hitting higher rate payers
    But surely that will put the cost of pension tax relief up as most people are on basic rate tax only. Maybe I am missing something here. Needs to be at 20% only. It is easy to calculate even for defined benefit schemes.
    Ordinary rate tax payers would see their pension tax relief rise from 20% to 25%

    It is one of several political under review
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,389
    edited October 16

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Easy - from future generations
    I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

    If not maybe you could expand your view
    What I mean is that we'll just continue to borrow to fund the goodies for the oldies whilst removing said goodies from anyone under 60.
    I am trying to follow you but you have lost me

    Maybe explain your proposals as I am genuinely interested
    It's not a genuine proposal - it's my cynical expectation of what is going to happen.

    At the end of the day the Government has to look after their client vote and that means no increase in IHT and no wealth/property tax.

    Ergo the only option is to raise taxes further on working people and plan to phase out elderly benefits for future generations, whilst borrowing in the meantime.
    I really do not think Rishi has that option

    Higher rate pension relief is an obvious target rounded to a flat 25% thereby helping standard rate tax payers but obviously hitting higher rate payers
    But that's another benefit removed from working people that the retired enjoyed themselves.
    It is one suggestion but taxes will rise no matter who is in power as long as we support the NHS, social care, education and climate change
    Why should taxes rise on working people first when it's the older generation with the accumulated property wealth who decided to spunk all of our country's wealth in the first place rather than invest it for future generations?

    The absolute arrogance and entitlement is outstanding.
    They are investing it for future generations for their children and grandchildren to inherit that property wealth, what an absurd statement
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 1,261
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Easy - from future generations
    I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

    If not maybe you could expand your view
    Well please go to Starmer Labour or the LDs then to pursue your case further as the Tories are not going to remove it as Osborne's raising the IHT thereshold to £1 million was the most popular Tory policy this century, especially in London and the South
    I am being polite as I can when I say you are so boring

    And entirely self interest - why should people in the north subside your housing deposit in the south
    People in the North and Midlands and Scotland and Wales and NI on average incomes have far lower costs of living than in the South and can afford to buy a property on an average wage.

    People on an average wage in most of London and much of the South East need to inherit or have parental assistance to help them be able to afford the deposit and be able to buy a property
    No. We need to tax the Mummy and Daddy money away as that distorts the property market in South East so ordinary decent working class people have a chance to get on.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,853
    HYUFD said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Easy - from future generations
    I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

    If not maybe you could expand your view
    What I mean is that we'll just continue to borrow to fund the goodies for the oldies whilst removing said goodies from anyone under 60.
    I am trying to follow you but you have lost me

    Maybe explain your proposals as I am genuinely interested
    It's not a genuine proposal - it's my cynical expectation of what is going to happen.

    At the end of the day the Government has to look after their client vote and that means no increase in IHT and no wealth/property tax.

    Ergo the only option is to raise taxes further on working people and plan to phase out elderly benefits for future generations, whilst borrowing in the meantime.
    I really do not think Rishi has that option

    Higher rate pension relief is an obvious target rounded to a flat 25% thereby helping standard rate tax payers but obviously hitting higher rate payers
    But that's another benefit removed from working people that the retired enjoyed themselves.
    It is one suggestion but taxes will rise no matter who is in power as long as we support the NHS, social care, education and climate change
    Why should taxes rise on working people first when it's the older generation with the accumulated property wealth who decided to spunk all of our country's wealth in the first place rather than invest it for future generations?

    The absolute arrogance and entitlement is outstanding.
    They are investing it for future generations for their children and grandchildren to inherit that property wealth, what an asburd statement
    No, they're hoarding it for THEIR children. They pillaged the exchequer and hoarded it for themselves.

    I find it quite frankly disgusting.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 17,834

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Easy - from future generations
    I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

    If not maybe you could expand your view
    Well please go to Starmer Labour or the LDs then to pursue your case further as the Tories are not going to remove it as Osborne's raising the IHT thereshold to £1 million was the most popular Tory policy this century, especially in London and the South
    I am being polite as I can when I say you are so boring

    And entirely self interest - why should people in the north subside your housing deposit in the south
    People in the North and Midlands and Scotland and Wales and NI on average incomes have far lower costs of living than in the South and can afford to buy a property on an average wage.

    People on an average wage in most of London and much of the South East need to inherit or have parental assistance to help them be able to afford the deposit and be able to buy a property
    I feel sorry for ordinary hard working people in London and the South East looking to buy their first home. If the Conservatives could sort this without losing the votes of Nimbys they would be in power for the forseeable future.
    Makes me laugh when politicians wheel out the 'hard working people' schtick as the alleged beneficiaries of all their every action... before providing more support to those living off unearned income.
  • eek said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Easy - from future generations
    I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

    If not maybe you could expand your view
    The only options are borrow more or create a wealth tax - IHT won’t generate much
    As a matter of interest how do you see a wealth tax working
    My suggestion: 1% pa on all individual assets over £1m. Legal obligation to self-declare and complete an annual return.

    So, assets of £1m = £0 Wealth Tax (WT) pa
    Assets of £1.5m = £5k WT pac(£500k over threshold x 1%)
    Assets of £2m = £10k WT pa (£1m over threshold x 1%)
    Assets of £10m = £90k WT pa
    Assets of £101m = £1m WT pa
    etc.
    Seems fair enough
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,389
    edited October 16

    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Yes but Labour have an easier way out if they care to choose it... tax the wealthy.
    Rishi needs to tax wealth but then is that enough and how much can you tax wealth before it becomes negative to the economy
    Imo you can tax wealth a lot before it starts impacting the economy! Most wealth is doing absolutely nothing for the economy: all that tied up in property for a start.

    But the beauty is you really don't need to tax it that much at all to get vast amounts of debt-reducing government income.

    PS The Tories will never do it properly because... donors.
    It would be even less palatable to the Tory vote than a beefed up inheritance tax, which at least doesn't affect you till you are dead. So it makes no sense to go to a wealth tax rather than beef up iht - scrap the property exemption, abolish the 7 year rule.
    I accept that the term wealth tax is emotive, but surely the actual impact depends on the threshold? If you set the threshold so that only the top 5% of wealth owners are impacted, and deliver that message clearly, most Tory voters will realise it's not affecting them. The 5% can afford it frankly.

    Still not happening though because... Tory donors.
    Partly donors, but also symbolism.

    As @HYUFD reminds us, the raising of the IHT threshold was very popular with Conservative supporters. Not so much because of the amounts to tax paid and saved, but because of what it represented. In many ways, inheritance is a rational time for tax to happen- the deceased has gone to a place where they won't mind and a tax taking a slice of a windfall is less painful than a tax on regular income. But the symbolism grates.

    The other tax that falls in the same category is fuel duty. It's been frozen for ages now, to the extent that it's a non-trivial hole in the national finances. We ought to be discouraging driving and encouraging more efficient use of vehicles. But it's untouchable. Partly out of fear of the fuel protests two decades ago, partly because White Van Man is the archetype of a type of Toryism, not to be punished.

    Rishi's problem is that the hefty tax rises announced in the Spring Budget (remember those?) and the NI increase announced in September don't look like being enough.

    And he's running out of sofas to rummage in for a few more coppers.
    We don't need any more tax rises, we are the Conservative party we are already spending quite enough as it is so no more rises in spending and we continue with cuts in overseas aid etc which were protected in the Cameron years.

    If voters like BigG want more tax and spend they can vote Starmer Labour, that is what Labour is for
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,853
    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Yes but Labour have an easier way out if they care to choose it... tax the wealthy.
    Rishi needs to tax wealth but then is that enough and how much can you tax wealth before it becomes negative to the economy
    Imo you can tax wealth a lot before it starts impacting the economy! Most wealth is doing absolutely nothing for the economy: all that tied up in property for a start.

    But the beauty is you really don't need to tax it that much at all to get vast amounts of debt-reducing government income.

    PS The Tories will never do it properly because... donors.
    It would be even less palatable to the Tory vote than a beefed up inheritance tax, which at least doesn't affect you till you are dead. So it makes no sense to go to a wealth tax rather than beef up iht - scrap the property exemption, abolish the 7 year rule.
    I accept that the term wealth tax is emotive, but surely the actual impact depends on the threshold? If you set the threshold so that only the top 5% of wealth owners are impacted, and deliver that message clearly, most Tory voters will realise it's not affecting them. The 5% can afford it frankly.

    Still not happening though because... Tory donors.
    Partly donors, but also symbolism.

    As @HYUFD reminds us, the raising of the IHT threshold was very popular with Conservative supporters. Not so much because of the amounts to tax paid and saved, but because of what it represented. In many ways, inheritance is a rational time for tax to happen- the deceased has gone to a place where they won't mind and a tax taking a slice of a windfall is less painful than a tax on regular income. But the symbolism grates.

    The other tax that falls in the same category is fuel duty. It's been frozen for ages now, to the extent that it's a non-trivial hole in the national finances. We ought to be discouraging driving and encouraging more efficient use of vehicles. But it's untouchable. Partly out of fear of the fuel protests two decades ago, partly because White Van Man is the archetype of a type of Toryism, not to be punished.

    Rishi's problem is that the hefty tax rises announced in the Spring Budget (remember those?) and the NI increase announced in September don't look like being enough.

    And he's running out of sofas to rummage in for a few more coppers.
    We don't need any more tax rises, we are the Conservative party we are already spending quite enough as it is so no more rises in spending and we continue with cuts in overseas aid etc which were protected in the Cameron years.

    If voters want more tax and spend they can vote Labour, that is what Labour is for
    Tax and spend is the modern Conservative Party whether you like it or not. It's just only the workers who get taxed.
  • Did someone mention IHT?

    And as for scrapping higher rate tax relief, how does that work for DB scheme members and salary sacrifice generally ?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,389
    edited October 16

    HYUFD said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Easy - from future generations
    I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

    If not maybe you could expand your view
    What I mean is that we'll just continue to borrow to fund the goodies for the oldies whilst removing said goodies from anyone under 60.
    I am trying to follow you but you have lost me

    Maybe explain your proposals as I am genuinely interested
    It's not a genuine proposal - it's my cynical expectation of what is going to happen.

    At the end of the day the Government has to look after their client vote and that means no increase in IHT and no wealth/property tax.

    Ergo the only option is to raise taxes further on working people and plan to phase out elderly benefits for future generations, whilst borrowing in the meantime.
    I really do not think Rishi has that option

    Higher rate pension relief is an obvious target rounded to a flat 25% thereby helping standard rate tax payers but obviously hitting higher rate payers
    But that's another benefit removed from working people that the retired enjoyed themselves.
    It is one suggestion but taxes will rise no matter who is in power as long as we support the NHS, social care, education and climate change
    Why should taxes rise on working people first when it's the older generation with the accumulated property wealth who decided to spunk all of our country's wealth in the first place rather than invest it for future generations?

    The absolute arrogance and entitlement is outstanding.
    They are investing it for future generations for their children and grandchildren to inherit that property wealth, what an asburd statement
    No, they're hoarding it for THEIR children. They pillaged the exchequer and hoarded it for themselves.

    I find it quite frankly disgusting.
    Do I care? No, you are not a Tory, so why should I? You won't vote for us anyway.

    I am a Tory because I believe in the family and inherited wealth in large part
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,239
    edited October 16

    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Yes but Labour have an easier way out if they care to choose it... tax the wealthy.
    Rishi needs to tax wealth but then is that enough and how much can you tax wealth before it becomes negative to the economy
    Imo you can tax wealth a lot before it starts impacting the economy! Most wealth is doing absolutely nothing for the economy: all that tied up in property for a start.

    But the beauty is you really don't need to tax it that much at all to get vast amounts of debt-reducing government income.

    PS The Tories will never do it properly because... donors.
    It would be even less palatable to the Tory vote than a beefed up inheritance tax, which at least doesn't affect you till you are dead. So it makes no sense to go to a wealth tax rather than beef up iht - scrap the property exemption, abolish the 7 year rule.
    I accept that the term wealth tax is emotive, but surely the actual impact depends on the threshold? If you set the threshold so that only the top 5% of wealth owners are impacted, and deliver that message clearly, most Tory voters will realise it's not affecting them. The 5% can afford it frankly.

    Still not happening though because... Tory donors.
    Don't you get it? The Tory party exists to protect private wealth and estates already accumulated. It isn't interested in the country at large, as confirmed by @HYUFD .
    We are not all like @HYUFD as @NickPalmer explained in a post yesterday
    I thought you'd left the Tory part Big_G?
    Actually I have but @NickPalmer point was that political parties have wide and diverse supporters such as @HYUFD and myself though I am not committed to voting for any party in GE24 at this stage

    Indeed my main concern is to keep taking my daily pills so I have the decision to make in 24
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,853
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Easy - from future generations
    I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

    If not maybe you could expand your view
    What I mean is that we'll just continue to borrow to fund the goodies for the oldies whilst removing said goodies from anyone under 60.
    I am trying to follow you but you have lost me

    Maybe explain your proposals as I am genuinely interested
    It's not a genuine proposal - it's my cynical expectation of what is going to happen.

    At the end of the day the Government has to look after their client vote and that means no increase in IHT and no wealth/property tax.

    Ergo the only option is to raise taxes further on working people and plan to phase out elderly benefits for future generations, whilst borrowing in the meantime.
    I really do not think Rishi has that option

    Higher rate pension relief is an obvious target rounded to a flat 25% thereby helping standard rate tax payers but obviously hitting higher rate payers
    But that's another benefit removed from working people that the retired enjoyed themselves.
    It is one suggestion but taxes will rise no matter who is in power as long as we support the NHS, social care, education and climate change
    Why should taxes rise on working people first when it's the older generation with the accumulated property wealth who decided to spunk all of our country's wealth in the first place rather than invest it for future generations?

    The absolute arrogance and entitlement is outstanding.
    They are investing it for future generations for their children and grandchildren to inherit that property wealth, what an asburd statement
    No, they're hoarding it for THEIR children. They pillaged the exchequer and hoarded it for themselves.

    I find it quite frankly disgusting.
    Do I care? No you are not a Tory, why should I, you won't vote for us anyway.

    I am a Tory because I believe in the family and inherited wealth in large part
    I don't really care if you care or not to be honest.
  • FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Easy - from future generations
    I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

    If not maybe you could expand your view
    What I mean is that we'll just continue to borrow to fund the goodies for the oldies whilst removing said goodies from anyone under 60.
    I am trying to follow you but you have lost me

    Maybe explain your proposals as I am genuinely interested
    It's not a genuine proposal - it's my cynical expectation of what is going to happen.

    At the end of the day the Government has to look after their client vote and that means no increase in IHT and no wealth/property tax.

    Ergo the only option is to raise taxes further on working people and plan to phase out elderly benefits for future generations, whilst borrowing in the meantime.
    I really do not think Rishi has that option

    Higher rate pension relief is an obvious target rounded to a flat 25% thereby helping standard rate tax payers but obviously hitting higher rate payers
    But that's another benefit removed from working people that the retired enjoyed themselves.
    It is one suggestion but taxes will rise no matter who is in power as long as we support the NHS, social care, education and climate change
    Why should taxes rise on working people first when it's the older generation with the accumulated property wealth who decided to spunk all of our country's wealth in the first place rather than invest it for future generations?

    The absolute arrogance and entitlement is outstanding.
    I have no issue with tax rises for everyone and IHT is an excellent tax on property wealth on death

  • eek said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Easy - from future generations
    I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

    If not maybe you could expand your view
    The only options are borrow more or create a wealth tax - IHT won’t generate much
    As a matter of interest how do you see a wealth tax working
    My suggestion: 1% pa on all individual assets over £1m. Legal obligation to self-declare and complete an annual return.

    So, assets of £1m = £0 Wealth Tax (WT) pa
    Assets of £1.5m = £5k WT pac(£500k over threshold x 1%)
    Assets of £2m = £10k WT pa (£1m over threshold x 1%)
    Assets of £10m = £90k WT pa
    Assets of £101m = £1m WT pa
    etc.
    What is wealth please.... Is it someone with £1M in their pension pot or someone with a DB pension of £50k pa? The latter being worth more obviously.... Despite what the LTA says. Or is it Isas which were and are supposed to be tax-free... And what about VCTs?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,389
    edited October 16

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Easy - from future generations
    I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

    If not maybe you could expand your view
    Well please go to Starmer Labour or the LDs then to pursue your case further as the Tories are not going to remove it as Osborne's raising the IHT thereshold to £1 million was the most popular Tory policy this century, especially in London and the South
    I am being polite as I can when I say you are so boring

    And entirely self interest - why should people in the north subside your housing deposit in the south
    People in the North and Midlands and Scotland and Wales and NI on average incomes have far lower costs of living than in the South and can afford to buy a property on an average wage.

    People on an average wage in most of London and much of the South East need to inherit or have parental assistance to help them be able to afford the deposit and be able to buy a property
    No. We need to tax the Mummy and Daddy money away as that distorts the property market in South East so ordinary decent working class people have a chance to get on.
    What a load of rubbish.

    As long as London remains a global city and attracts foreign investment and large numbers of high earning incomers from across the UK and abroad those born there will not be able to afford to buy there unless they get a high income or inherit.

    Londoners who cannot afford to buy in the capital will then move out to the Home Counties to buy in turn pricing out those born in the Home Counties unless they get an above average income or inherit.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 927

    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Yes but Labour have an easier way out if they care to choose it... tax the wealthy.
    Rishi needs to tax wealth but then is that enough and how much can you tax wealth before it becomes negative to the economy
    Imo you can tax wealth a lot before it starts impacting the economy! Most wealth is doing absolutely nothing for the economy: all that tied up in property for a start.

    But the beauty is you really don't need to tax it that much at all to get vast amounts of debt-reducing government income.

    PS The Tories will never do it properly because... donors.
    It would be even less palatable to the Tory vote than a beefed up inheritance tax, which at least doesn't affect you till you are dead. So it makes no sense to go to a wealth tax rather than beef up iht - scrap the property exemption, abolish the 7 year rule.
    I accept that the term wealth tax is emotive, but surely the actual impact depends on the threshold? If you set the threshold so that only the top 5% of wealth owners are impacted, and deliver that message clearly, most Tory voters will realise it's not affecting them. The 5% can afford it frankly.

    Still not happening though because... Tory donors.
    Don't you get it? The Tory party exists to protect private wealth and estates already accumulated. It isn't interested in the country at large, as confirmed by @HYUFD .
    I must admit that I am not particularly representative of the population at large; but for me the danger constituted by the woke is so intolerable that I am forced to vote for this completely insane bullshit.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,853
    darkage said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Yes but Labour have an easier way out if they care to choose it... tax the wealthy.
    Rishi needs to tax wealth but then is that enough and how much can you tax wealth before it becomes negative to the economy
    Imo you can tax wealth a lot before it starts impacting the economy! Most wealth is doing absolutely nothing for the economy: all that tied up in property for a start.

    But the beauty is you really don't need to tax it that much at all to get vast amounts of debt-reducing government income.

    PS The Tories will never do it properly because... donors.
    It would be even less palatable to the Tory vote than a beefed up inheritance tax, which at least doesn't affect you till you are dead. So it makes no sense to go to a wealth tax rather than beef up iht - scrap the property exemption, abolish the 7 year rule.
    I accept that the term wealth tax is emotive, but surely the actual impact depends on the threshold? If you set the threshold so that only the top 5% of wealth owners are impacted, and deliver that message clearly, most Tory voters will realise it's not affecting them. The 5% can afford it frankly.

    Still not happening though because... Tory donors.
    Don't you get it? The Tory party exists to protect private wealth and estates already accumulated. It isn't interested in the country at large, as confirmed by @HYUFD .
    I must admit that I am not particularly representative of the population at large; but for me the danger constituted by the woke is so intolerable that I am forced to vote for this completely insane bullshit.
    My condolences
  • HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Yes but Labour have an easier way out if they care to choose it... tax the wealthy.
    Rishi needs to tax wealth but then is that enough and how much can you tax wealth before it becomes negative to the economy
    Imo you can tax wealth a lot before it starts impacting the economy! Most wealth is doing absolutely nothing for the economy: all that tied up in property for a start.

    But the beauty is you really don't need to tax it that much at all to get vast amounts of debt-reducing government income.

    PS The Tories will never do it properly because... donors.
    It would be even less palatable to the Tory vote than a beefed up inheritance tax, which at least doesn't affect you till you are dead. So it makes no sense to go to a wealth tax rather than beef up iht - scrap the property exemption, abolish the 7 year rule.
    I accept that the term wealth tax is emotive, but surely the actual impact depends on the threshold? If you set the threshold so that only the top 5% of wealth owners are impacted, and deliver that message clearly, most Tory voters will realise it's not affecting them. The 5% can afford it frankly.

    Still not happening though because... Tory donors.
    Partly donors, but also symbolism.

    As @HYUFD reminds us, the raising of the IHT threshold was very popular with Conservative supporters. Not so much because of the amounts to tax paid and saved, but because of what it represented. In many ways, inheritance is a rational time for tax to happen- the deceased has gone to a place where they won't mind and a tax taking a slice of a windfall is less painful than a tax on regular income. But the symbolism grates.

    The other tax that falls in the same category is fuel duty. It's been frozen for ages now, to the extent that it's a non-trivial hole in the national finances. We ought to be discouraging driving and encouraging more efficient use of vehicles. But it's untouchable. Partly out of fear of the fuel protests two decades ago, partly because White Van Man is the archetype of a type of Toryism, not to be punished.

    Rishi's problem is that the hefty tax rises announced in the Spring Budget (remember those?) and the NI increase announced in September don't look like being enough.

    And he's running out of sofas to rummage in for a few more coppers.
    We don't need any more tax rises, we are the Conservative party we are already spending quite enough as it is so no more rises in spending and we continue with cuts in overseas aid etc which were protected in the Cameron years.

    If voters like BigG want more tax and spend they can vote Starmer Labour, that is what Labour is for
    You may be eating your words on the 28th
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,389

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Yes but Labour have an easier way out if they care to choose it... tax the wealthy.
    Rishi needs to tax wealth but then is that enough and how much can you tax wealth before it becomes negative to the economy
    Imo you can tax wealth a lot before it starts impacting the economy! Most wealth is doing absolutely nothing for the economy: all that tied up in property for a start.

    But the beauty is you really don't need to tax it that much at all to get vast amounts of debt-reducing government income.

    PS The Tories will never do it properly because... donors.
    It would be even less palatable to the Tory vote than a beefed up inheritance tax, which at least doesn't affect you till you are dead. So it makes no sense to go to a wealth tax rather than beef up iht - scrap the property exemption, abolish the 7 year rule.
    I accept that the term wealth tax is emotive, but surely the actual impact depends on the threshold? If you set the threshold so that only the top 5% of wealth owners are impacted, and deliver that message clearly, most Tory voters will realise it's not affecting them. The 5% can afford it frankly.

    Still not happening though because... Tory donors.
    Partly donors, but also symbolism.

    As @HYUFD reminds us, the raising of the IHT threshold was very popular with Conservative supporters. Not so much because of the amounts to tax paid and saved, but because of what it represented. In many ways, inheritance is a rational time for tax to happen- the deceased has gone to a place where they won't mind and a tax taking a slice of a windfall is less painful than a tax on regular income. But the symbolism grates.

    The other tax that falls in the same category is fuel duty. It's been frozen for ages now, to the extent that it's a non-trivial hole in the national finances. We ought to be discouraging driving and encouraging more efficient use of vehicles. But it's untouchable. Partly out of fear of the fuel protests two decades ago, partly because White Van Man is the archetype of a type of Toryism, not to be punished.

    Rishi's problem is that the hefty tax rises announced in the Spring Budget (remember those?) and the NI increase announced in September don't look like being enough.

    And he's running out of sofas to rummage in for a few more coppers.
    We don't need any more tax rises, we are the Conservative party we are already spending quite enough as it is so no more rises in spending and we continue with cuts in overseas aid etc which were protected in the Cameron years.

    If voters want more tax and spend they can vote Labour, that is what Labour is for
    Tax and spend is the modern Conservative Party whether you like it or not. It's just only the workers who get taxed.
    Labour would have put up income tax and IHT too and imposed a wealth tax and spent more than the Tories too
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,853
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Yes but Labour have an easier way out if they care to choose it... tax the wealthy.
    Rishi needs to tax wealth but then is that enough and how much can you tax wealth before it becomes negative to the economy
    Imo you can tax wealth a lot before it starts impacting the economy! Most wealth is doing absolutely nothing for the economy: all that tied up in property for a start.

    But the beauty is you really don't need to tax it that much at all to get vast amounts of debt-reducing government income.

    PS The Tories will never do it properly because... donors.
    It would be even less palatable to the Tory vote than a beefed up inheritance tax, which at least doesn't affect you till you are dead. So it makes no sense to go to a wealth tax rather than beef up iht - scrap the property exemption, abolish the 7 year rule.
    I accept that the term wealth tax is emotive, but surely the actual impact depends on the threshold? If you set the threshold so that only the top 5% of wealth owners are impacted, and deliver that message clearly, most Tory voters will realise it's not affecting them. The 5% can afford it frankly.

    Still not happening though because... Tory donors.
    Partly donors, but also symbolism.

    As @HYUFD reminds us, the raising of the IHT threshold was very popular with Conservative supporters. Not so much because of the amounts to tax paid and saved, but because of what it represented. In many ways, inheritance is a rational time for tax to happen- the deceased has gone to a place where they won't mind and a tax taking a slice of a windfall is less painful than a tax on regular income. But the symbolism grates.

    The other tax that falls in the same category is fuel duty. It's been frozen for ages now, to the extent that it's a non-trivial hole in the national finances. We ought to be discouraging driving and encouraging more efficient use of vehicles. But it's untouchable. Partly out of fear of the fuel protests two decades ago, partly because White Van Man is the archetype of a type of Toryism, not to be punished.

    Rishi's problem is that the hefty tax rises announced in the Spring Budget (remember those?) and the NI increase announced in September don't look like being enough.

    And he's running out of sofas to rummage in for a few more coppers.
    We don't need any more tax rises, we are the Conservative party we are already spending quite enough as it is so no more rises in spending and we continue with cuts in overseas aid etc which were protected in the Cameron years.

    If voters want more tax and spend they can vote Labour, that is what Labour is for
    Tax and spend is the modern Conservative Party whether you like it or not. It's just only the workers who get taxed.
    Labour would have put up income tax and IHT too and imposed a wealth tax and spent more than the Tories too
    Sounds good to me!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 17,834

    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Yes but Labour have an easier way out if they care to choose it... tax the wealthy.
    Rishi needs to tax wealth but then is that enough and how much can you tax wealth before it becomes negative to the economy
    Imo you can tax wealth a lot before it starts impacting the economy! Most wealth is doing absolutely nothing for the economy: all that tied up in property for a start.

    But the beauty is you really don't need to tax it that much at all to get vast amounts of debt-reducing government income.

    PS The Tories will never do it properly because... donors.
    It would be even less palatable to the Tory vote than a beefed up inheritance tax, which at least doesn't affect you till you are dead. So it makes no sense to go to a wealth tax rather than beef up iht - scrap the property exemption, abolish the 7 year rule.
    I accept that the term wealth tax is emotive, but surely the actual impact depends on the threshold? If you set the threshold so that only the top 5% of wealth owners are impacted, and deliver that message clearly, most Tory voters will realise it's not affecting them. The 5% can afford it frankly.

    Still not happening though because... Tory donors.
    Can you define the top 5% of wealth owners
    Well according to this ONS report from last year the top 10% of 'households' (not individuals) have an average ot £2.5m.
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/totalwealthingreatbritain/april2016tomarch2018#analysis-by-total-wealth-decile
    (see figure 5)

    Say on average that means the top 5% have double that (a conservative estimate since the curve gets steeper in the higher deciles) but households are on average two individuals, you come back to something in the >£1m area for individuals equating to the top 5%.

    I suspect the Treasury know pretty accuately.
  • HYUFD said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Easy - from future generations
    I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

    If not maybe you could expand your view
    What I mean is that we'll just continue to borrow to fund the goodies for the oldies whilst removing said goodies from anyone under 60.
    I am trying to follow you but you have lost me

    Maybe explain your proposals as I am genuinely interested
    It's not a genuine proposal - it's my cynical expectation of what is going to happen.

    At the end of the day the Government has to look after their client vote and that means no increase in IHT and no wealth/property tax.

    Ergo the only option is to raise taxes further on working people and plan to phase out elderly benefits for future generations, whilst borrowing in the meantime.
    I really do not think Rishi has that option

    Higher rate pension relief is an obvious target rounded to a flat 25% thereby helping standard rate tax payers but obviously hitting higher rate payers
    But that's another benefit removed from working people that the retired enjoyed themselves.
    It is one suggestion but taxes will rise no matter who is in power as long as we support the NHS, social care, education and climate change
    Why should taxes rise on working people first when it's the older generation with the accumulated property wealth who decided to spunk all of our country's wealth in the first place rather than invest it for future generations?

    The absolute arrogance and entitlement is outstanding.
    They are investing it for future generations for their children and grandchildren to inherit that property wealth, what an absurd statement
    Your statement is absurd and has no place in a fair tax society
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,853

    eek said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Easy - from future generations
    I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

    If not maybe you could expand your view
    The only options are borrow more or create a wealth tax - IHT won’t generate much
    As a matter of interest how do you see a wealth tax working
    My suggestion: 1% pa on all individual assets over £1m. Legal obligation to self-declare and complete an annual return.

    So, assets of £1m = £0 Wealth Tax (WT) pa
    Assets of £1.5m = £5k WT pac(£500k over threshold x 1%)
    Assets of £2m = £10k WT pa (£1m over threshold x 1%)
    Assets of £10m = £90k WT pa
    Assets of £101m = £1m WT pa
    etc.
    What is wealth please.... Is it someone with £1M in their pension pot or someone with a DB pension of £50k pa? The latter being worth more obviously.... Despite what the LTA says. Or is it Isas which were and are supposed to be tax-free... And what about VCTs?
    Ultimately it's going to be property wealth in a vast amount of cases I presume
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 17,834
    darkage said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Yes but Labour have an easier way out if they care to choose it... tax the wealthy.
    Rishi needs to tax wealth but then is that enough and how much can you tax wealth before it becomes negative to the economy
    Imo you can tax wealth a lot before it starts impacting the economy! Most wealth is doing absolutely nothing for the economy: all that tied up in property for a start.

    But the beauty is you really don't need to tax it that much at all to get vast amounts of debt-reducing government income.

    PS The Tories will never do it properly because... donors.
    It would be even less palatable to the Tory vote than a beefed up inheritance tax, which at least doesn't affect you till you are dead. So it makes no sense to go to a wealth tax rather than beef up iht - scrap the property exemption, abolish the 7 year rule.
    I accept that the term wealth tax is emotive, but surely the actual impact depends on the threshold? If you set the threshold so that only the top 5% of wealth owners are impacted, and deliver that message clearly, most Tory voters will realise it's not affecting them. The 5% can afford it frankly.

    Still not happening though because... Tory donors.
    Don't you get it? The Tory party exists to protect private wealth and estates already accumulated. It isn't interested in the country at large, as confirmed by @HYUFD .
    I must admit that I am not particularly representative of the population at large; but for me the danger constituted by the woke is so intolerable that I am forced to vote for this completely insane bullshit.
    Have you got an infestation of those nasty wokes? Sorry to hear that.

    Hint: check under the bed.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,389

    HYUFD said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Easy - from future generations
    I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

    If not maybe you could expand your view
    What I mean is that we'll just continue to borrow to fund the goodies for the oldies whilst removing said goodies from anyone under 60.
    I am trying to follow you but you have lost me

    Maybe explain your proposals as I am genuinely interested
    It's not a genuine proposal - it's my cynical expectation of what is going to happen.

    At the end of the day the Government has to look after their client vote and that means no increase in IHT and no wealth/property tax.

    Ergo the only option is to raise taxes further on working people and plan to phase out elderly benefits for future generations, whilst borrowing in the meantime.
    I really do not think Rishi has that option

    Higher rate pension relief is an obvious target rounded to a flat 25% thereby helping standard rate tax payers but obviously hitting higher rate payers
    But that's another benefit removed from working people that the retired enjoyed themselves.
    It is one suggestion but taxes will rise no matter who is in power as long as we support the NHS, social care, education and climate change
    Why should taxes rise on working people first when it's the older generation with the accumulated property wealth who decided to spunk all of our country's wealth in the first place rather than invest it for future generations?

    The absolute arrogance and entitlement is outstanding.
    They are investing it for future generations for their children and grandchildren to inherit that property wealth, what an absurd statement
    Your statement is absurd and has no place in a fair tax society
    Your idea of a 'fair tax society' belongs to Labour or the LDs, it has no place in the Tory Party
  • eek said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Easy - from future generations
    I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

    If not maybe you could expand your view
    The only options are borrow more or create a wealth tax - IHT won’t generate much
    As a matter of interest how do you see a wealth tax working
    My suggestion: 1% pa on all individual assets over £1m. Legal obligation to self-declare and complete an annual return.

    So, assets of £1m = £0 Wealth Tax (WT) pa
    Assets of £1.5m = £5k WT pac(£500k over threshold x 1%)
    Assets of £2m = £10k WT pa (£1m over threshold x 1%)
    Assets of £10m = £90k WT pa
    Assets of £101m = £1m WT pa
    etc.
    What is wealth please.... Is it someone with £1M in their pension pot or someone with a DB pension of £50k pa? The latter being worth more obviously.... Despite what the LTA says. Or is it Isas which were and are supposed to be tax-free... And what about VCTs?
    Ultimately it's going to be property wealth in a vast amount of cases I presume
    So basically a council tax then... And good for my equity release demand too perhaps...
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 725
    Inheritance Tax is the only voluntary tax. If you have a competent IFA you won’t pay it.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 17,834
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Easy - from future generations
    I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

    If not maybe you could expand your view
    What I mean is that we'll just continue to borrow to fund the goodies for the oldies whilst removing said goodies from anyone under 60.
    I am trying to follow you but you have lost me

    Maybe explain your proposals as I am genuinely interested
    It's not a genuine proposal - it's my cynical expectation of what is going to happen.

    At the end of the day the Government has to look after their client vote and that means no increase in IHT and no wealth/property tax.

    Ergo the only option is to raise taxes further on working people and plan to phase out elderly benefits for future generations, whilst borrowing in the meantime.
    I really do not think Rishi has that option

    Higher rate pension relief is an obvious target rounded to a flat 25% thereby helping standard rate tax payers but obviously hitting higher rate payers
    But that's another benefit removed from working people that the retired enjoyed themselves.
    It is one suggestion but taxes will rise no matter who is in power as long as we support the NHS, social care, education and climate change
    Why should taxes rise on working people first when it's the older generation with the accumulated property wealth who decided to spunk all of our country's wealth in the first place rather than invest it for future generations?

    The absolute arrogance and entitlement is outstanding.
    They are investing it for future generations for their children and grandchildren to inherit that property wealth, what an absurd statement
    Your statement is absurd and has no place in a fair tax society
    Your idea of a 'fair tax society' belongs to Labour or the LDs, it has no place in the Tory Party
    Or Nasty Party as you so rightly admitted yesterday.

    It gets better and better!
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Yes but Labour have an easier way out if they care to choose it... tax the wealthy.
    Rishi needs to tax wealth but then is that enough and how much can you tax wealth before it becomes negative to the economy
    Imo you can tax wealth a lot before it starts impacting the economy! Most wealth is doing absolutely nothing for the economy: all that tied up in property for a start.

    But the beauty is you really don't need to tax it that much at all to get vast amounts of debt-reducing government income.

    PS The Tories will never do it properly because... donors.
    It would be even less palatable to the Tory vote than a beefed up inheritance tax, which at least doesn't affect you till you are dead. So it makes no sense to go to a wealth tax rather than beef up iht - scrap the property exemption, abolish the 7 year rule.
    I accept that the term wealth tax is emotive, but surely the actual impact depends on the threshold? If you set the threshold so that only the top 5% of wealth owners are impacted, and deliver that message clearly, most Tory voters will realise it's not affecting them. The 5% can afford it frankly.

    Still not happening though because... Tory donors.
    Partly donors, but also symbolism.

    As @HYUFD reminds us, the raising of the IHT threshold was very popular with Conservative supporters. Not so much because of the amounts to tax paid and saved, but because of what it represented. In many ways, inheritance is a rational time for tax to happen- the deceased has gone to a place where they won't mind and a tax taking a slice of a windfall is less painful than a tax on regular income. But the symbolism grates.

    The other tax that falls in the same category is fuel duty. It's been frozen for ages now, to the extent that it's a non-trivial hole in the national finances. We ought to be discouraging driving and encouraging more efficient use of vehicles. But it's untouchable. Partly out of fear of the fuel protests two decades ago, partly because White Van Man is the archetype of a type of Toryism, not to be punished.

    Rishi's problem is that the hefty tax rises announced in the Spring Budget (remember those?) and the NI increase announced in September don't look like being enough.

    And he's running out of sofas to rummage in for a few more coppers.
    We don't need any more tax rises, we are the Conservative party we are already spending quite enough as it is so no more rises in spending and we continue with cuts in overseas aid etc which were protected in the Cameron years.

    If voters want more tax and spend they can vote Labour, that is what Labour is for
    Tax and spend is the modern Conservative Party whether you like it or not. It's just only the workers who get taxed.
    Labour would have put up income tax and IHT too and imposed a wealth tax and spent more than the Tories too
    The point you are blind to is that due to covid and climate change the conservatives will have no choice
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,853

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Yes but Labour have an easier way out if they care to choose it... tax the wealthy.
    Rishi needs to tax wealth but then is that enough and how much can you tax wealth before it becomes negative to the economy
    Imo you can tax wealth a lot before it starts impacting the economy! Most wealth is doing absolutely nothing for the economy: all that tied up in property for a start.

    But the beauty is you really don't need to tax it that much at all to get vast amounts of debt-reducing government income.

    PS The Tories will never do it properly because... donors.
    It would be even less palatable to the Tory vote than a beefed up inheritance tax, which at least doesn't affect you till you are dead. So it makes no sense to go to a wealth tax rather than beef up iht - scrap the property exemption, abolish the 7 year rule.
    I accept that the term wealth tax is emotive, but surely the actual impact depends on the threshold? If you set the threshold so that only the top 5% of wealth owners are impacted, and deliver that message clearly, most Tory voters will realise it's not affecting them. The 5% can afford it frankly.

    Still not happening though because... Tory donors.
    Partly donors, but also symbolism.

    As @HYUFD reminds us, the raising of the IHT threshold was very popular with Conservative supporters. Not so much because of the amounts to tax paid and saved, but because of what it represented. In many ways, inheritance is a rational time for tax to happen- the deceased has gone to a place where they won't mind and a tax taking a slice of a windfall is less painful than a tax on regular income. But the symbolism grates.

    The other tax that falls in the same category is fuel duty. It's been frozen for ages now, to the extent that it's a non-trivial hole in the national finances. We ought to be discouraging driving and encouraging more efficient use of vehicles. But it's untouchable. Partly out of fear of the fuel protests two decades ago, partly because White Van Man is the archetype of a type of Toryism, not to be punished.

    Rishi's problem is that the hefty tax rises announced in the Spring Budget (remember those?) and the NI increase announced in September don't look like being enough.

    And he's running out of sofas to rummage in for a few more coppers.
    We don't need any more tax rises, we are the Conservative party we are already spending quite enough as it is so no more rises in spending and we continue with cuts in overseas aid etc which were protected in the Cameron years.

    If voters want more tax and spend they can vote Labour, that is what Labour is for
    Tax and spend is the modern Conservative Party whether you like it or not. It's just only the workers who get taxed.
    Labour would have put up income tax and IHT too and imposed a wealth tax and spent more than the Tories too
    The point you are blind to is that due to covid and climate change the conservatives will have no choice
    @HYUFD will just pivot and proclaim he has always supported X policy and that any tax rise isn't in fact a tax rise, or something.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,389
    edited October 16

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Yes but Labour have an easier way out if they care to choose it... tax the wealthy.
    Rishi needs to tax wealth but then is that enough and how much can you tax wealth before it becomes negative to the economy
    Imo you can tax wealth a lot before it starts impacting the economy! Most wealth is doing absolutely nothing for the economy: all that tied up in property for a start.

    But the beauty is you really don't need to tax it that much at all to get vast amounts of debt-reducing government income.

    PS The Tories will never do it properly because... donors.
    It would be even less palatable to the Tory vote than a beefed up inheritance tax, which at least doesn't affect you till you are dead. So it makes no sense to go to a wealth tax rather than beef up iht - scrap the property exemption, abolish the 7 year rule.
    I accept that the term wealth tax is emotive, but surely the actual impact depends on the threshold? If you set the threshold so that only the top 5% of wealth owners are impacted, and deliver that message clearly, most Tory voters will realise it's not affecting them. The 5% can afford it frankly.

    Still not happening though because... Tory donors.
    Partly donors, but also symbolism.

    As @HYUFD reminds us, the raising of the IHT threshold was very popular with Conservative supporters. Not so much because of the amounts to tax paid and saved, but because of what it represented. In many ways, inheritance is a rational time for tax to happen- the deceased has gone to a place where they won't mind and a tax taking a slice of a windfall is less painful than a tax on regular income. But the symbolism grates.

    The other tax that falls in the same category is fuel duty. It's been frozen for ages now, to the extent that it's a non-trivial hole in the national finances. We ought to be discouraging driving and encouraging more efficient use of vehicles. But it's untouchable. Partly out of fear of the fuel protests two decades ago, partly because White Van Man is the archetype of a type of Toryism, not to be punished.

    Rishi's problem is that the hefty tax rises announced in the Spring Budget (remember those?) and the NI increase announced in September don't look like being enough.

    And he's running out of sofas to rummage in for a few more coppers.
    We don't need any more tax rises, we are the Conservative party we are already spending quite enough as it is so no more rises in spending and we continue with cuts in overseas aid etc which were protected in the Cameron years.

    If voters like BigG want more tax and spend they can vote Starmer Labour, that is what Labour is for
    You may be eating your words on the 28th
    I won't, if Sunak puts up IHT he will be sacked within a week as the Tory vote would collapse in the South and especially see large leakage to ReformUK. See May's dementia tax disaster which cost her her majority in 2017 to see the fury of the Tory core vote if they and their families' property assets are threatened.

    Which is why he won't, at most he will fiddle with some reliefs.

    If you are so desperate to raise IHT and for wealth taxes off to Starmer Labour with you!
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Yes but Labour have an easier way out if they care to choose it... tax the wealthy.
    Rishi needs to tax wealth but then is that enough and how much can you tax wealth before it becomes negative to the economy
    Imo you can tax wealth a lot before it starts impacting the economy! Most wealth is doing absolutely nothing for the economy: all that tied up in property for a start.

    But the beauty is you really don't need to tax it that much at all to get vast amounts of debt-reducing government income.

    PS The Tories will never do it properly because... donors.
    It would be even less palatable to the Tory vote than a beefed up inheritance tax, which at least doesn't affect you till you are dead. So it makes no sense to go to a wealth tax rather than beef up iht - scrap the property exemption, abolish the 7 year rule.
    I accept that the term wealth tax is emotive, but surely the actual impact depends on the threshold? If you set the threshold so that only the top 5% of wealth owners are impacted, and deliver that message clearly, most Tory voters will realise it's not affecting them. The 5% can afford it frankly.

    Still not happening though because... Tory donors.
    Partly donors, but also symbolism.

    As @HYUFD reminds us, the raising of the IHT threshold was very popular with Conservative supporters. Not so much because of the amounts to tax paid and saved, but because of what it represented. In many ways, inheritance is a rational time for tax to happen- the deceased has gone to a place where they won't mind and a tax taking a slice of a windfall is less painful than a tax on regular income. But the symbolism grates.

    The other tax that falls in the same category is fuel duty. It's been frozen for ages now, to the extent that it's a non-trivial hole in the national finances. We ought to be discouraging driving and encouraging more efficient use of vehicles. But it's untouchable. Partly out of fear of the fuel protests two decades ago, partly because White Van Man is the archetype of a type of Toryism, not to be punished.

    Rishi's problem is that the hefty tax rises announced in the Spring Budget (remember those?) and the NI increase announced in September don't look like being enough.

    And he's running out of sofas to rummage in for a few more coppers.
    We don't need any more tax rises, we are the Conservative party we are already spending quite enough as it is so no more rises in spending and we continue with cuts in overseas aid etc which were protected in the Cameron years.

    If voters want more tax and spend they can vote Labour, that is what Labour is for
    Tax and spend is the modern Conservative Party whether you like it or not. It's just only the workers who get taxed.
    Labour would have put up income tax and IHT too and imposed a wealth tax and spent more than the Tories too
    The point you are blind to is that due to covid and climate change the conservatives will have no choice
    @HYUFD will just pivot and proclaim he has always supported X policy and that any tax rise isn't in fact a tax rise, or something.
    I know and have predicted it for some time
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,389
    edited October 16

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Yes but Labour have an easier way out if they care to choose it... tax the wealthy.
    Rishi needs to tax wealth but then is that enough and how much can you tax wealth before it becomes negative to the economy
    Imo you can tax wealth a lot before it starts impacting the economy! Most wealth is doing absolutely nothing for the economy: all that tied up in property for a start.

    But the beauty is you really don't need to tax it that much at all to get vast amounts of debt-reducing government income.

    PS The Tories will never do it properly because... donors.
    It would be even less palatable to the Tory vote than a beefed up inheritance tax, which at least doesn't affect you till you are dead. So it makes no sense to go to a wealth tax rather than beef up iht - scrap the property exemption, abolish the 7 year rule.
    I accept that the term wealth tax is emotive, but surely the actual impact depends on the threshold? If you set the threshold so that only the top 5% of wealth owners are impacted, and deliver that message clearly, most Tory voters will realise it's not affecting them. The 5% can afford it frankly.

    Still not happening though because... Tory donors.
    Partly donors, but also symbolism.

    As @HYUFD reminds us, the raising of the IHT threshold was very popular with Conservative supporters. Not so much because of the amounts to tax paid and saved, but because of what it represented. In many ways, inheritance is a rational time for tax to happen- the deceased has gone to a place where they won't mind and a tax taking a slice of a windfall is less painful than a tax on regular income. But the symbolism grates.

    The other tax that falls in the same category is fuel duty. It's been frozen for ages now, to the extent that it's a non-trivial hole in the national finances. We ought to be discouraging driving and encouraging more efficient use of vehicles. But it's untouchable. Partly out of fear of the fuel protests two decades ago, partly because White Van Man is the archetype of a type of Toryism, not to be punished.

    Rishi's problem is that the hefty tax rises announced in the Spring Budget (remember those?) and the NI increase announced in September don't look like being enough.

    And he's running out of sofas to rummage in for a few more coppers.
    We don't need any more tax rises, we are the Conservative party we are already spending quite enough as it is so no more rises in spending and we continue with cuts in overseas aid etc which were protected in the Cameron years.

    If voters want more tax and spend they can vote Labour, that is what Labour is for
    Tax and spend is the modern Conservative Party whether you like it or not. It's just only the workers who get taxed.
    Labour would have put up income tax and IHT too and imposed a wealth tax and spent more than the Tories too
    The point you are blind to is that due to covid and climate change the conservatives will have no choice
    Crap.

    Lockdown has ended, furlough has ended and hospitalisations have fallen sharply. There are no extra funds needed beyond those already given and climate change has sod all to do with public spending but replacing fossil fuels with renewables which we are world leaders in anyway. Otherwise it is getting the US, China and India to do something as they will have far more impact on it than we would
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,853
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Yes but Labour have an easier way out if they care to choose it... tax the wealthy.
    Rishi needs to tax wealth but then is that enough and how much can you tax wealth before it becomes negative to the economy
    Imo you can tax wealth a lot before it starts impacting the economy! Most wealth is doing absolutely nothing for the economy: all that tied up in property for a start.

    But the beauty is you really don't need to tax it that much at all to get vast amounts of debt-reducing government income.

    PS The Tories will never do it properly because... donors.
    It would be even less palatable to the Tory vote than a beefed up inheritance tax, which at least doesn't affect you till you are dead. So it makes no sense to go to a wealth tax rather than beef up iht - scrap the property exemption, abolish the 7 year rule.
    I accept that the term wealth tax is emotive, but surely the actual impact depends on the threshold? If you set the threshold so that only the top 5% of wealth owners are impacted, and deliver that message clearly, most Tory voters will realise it's not affecting them. The 5% can afford it frankly.

    Still not happening though because... Tory donors.
    Partly donors, but also symbolism.

    As @HYUFD reminds us, the raising of the IHT threshold was very popular with Conservative supporters. Not so much because of the amounts to tax paid and saved, but because of what it represented. In many ways, inheritance is a rational time for tax to happen- the deceased has gone to a place where they won't mind and a tax taking a slice of a windfall is less painful than a tax on regular income. But the symbolism grates.

    The other tax that falls in the same category is fuel duty. It's been frozen for ages now, to the extent that it's a non-trivial hole in the national finances. We ought to be discouraging driving and encouraging more efficient use of vehicles. But it's untouchable. Partly out of fear of the fuel protests two decades ago, partly because White Van Man is the archetype of a type of Toryism, not to be punished.

    Rishi's problem is that the hefty tax rises announced in the Spring Budget (remember those?) and the NI increase announced in September don't look like being enough.

    And he's running out of sofas to rummage in for a few more coppers.
    We don't need any more tax rises, we are the Conservative party we are already spending quite enough as it is so no more rises in spending and we continue with cuts in overseas aid etc which were protected in the Cameron years.

    If voters like BigG want more tax and spend they can vote Starmer Labour, that is what Labour is for
    You may be eating your words on the 28th
    I won't, if Sunak puts up IHT he will be sacked within a week as the Tory vote would collapse in the South and especially see large leakage to ReformUK.

    Which is why he won't, at most he will fiddle with some reliefs.

    If you are so desperate to raise IHT and for wealth taxes off to Starmer Labour with you!
    Holding the IHT nil-rate band at it's current level for an extended period time will be in effect a % rise in IHT each year. You alright with that?
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Yes but Labour have an easier way out if they care to choose it... tax the wealthy.
    Rishi needs to tax wealth but then is that enough and how much can you tax wealth before it becomes negative to the economy
    Imo you can tax wealth a lot before it starts impacting the economy! Most wealth is doing absolutely nothing for the economy: all that tied up in property for a start.

    But the beauty is you really don't need to tax it that much at all to get vast amounts of debt-reducing government income.

    PS The Tories will never do it properly because... donors.
    It would be even less palatable to the Tory vote than a beefed up inheritance tax, which at least doesn't affect you till you are dead. So it makes no sense to go to a wealth tax rather than beef up iht - scrap the property exemption, abolish the 7 year rule.
    I accept that the term wealth tax is emotive, but surely the actual impact depends on the threshold? If you set the threshold so that only the top 5% of wealth owners are impacted, and deliver that message clearly, most Tory voters will realise it's not affecting them. The 5% can afford it frankly.

    Still not happening though because... Tory donors.
    Partly donors, but also symbolism.

    As @HYUFD reminds us, the raising of the IHT threshold was very popular with Conservative supporters. Not so much because of the amounts to tax paid and saved, but because of what it represented. In many ways, inheritance is a rational time for tax to happen- the deceased has gone to a place where they won't mind and a tax taking a slice of a windfall is less painful than a tax on regular income. But the symbolism grates.

    The other tax that falls in the same category is fuel duty. It's been frozen for ages now, to the extent that it's a non-trivial hole in the national finances. We ought to be discouraging driving and encouraging more efficient use of vehicles. But it's untouchable. Partly out of fear of the fuel protests two decades ago, partly because White Van Man is the archetype of a type of Toryism, not to be punished.

    Rishi's problem is that the hefty tax rises announced in the Spring Budget (remember those?) and the NI increase announced in September don't look like being enough.

    And he's running out of sofas to rummage in for a few more coppers.
    We don't need any more tax rises, we are the Conservative party we are already spending quite enough as it is so no more rises in spending and we continue with cuts in overseas aid etc which were protected in the Cameron years.

    If voters like BigG want more tax and spend they can vote Starmer Labour, that is what Labour is for
    You may be eating your words on the 28th
    I won't, if Sunak puts up IHT he will be sacked within a week as the Tory vote would collapse in the South and especially see large leakage to ReformUK.

    Which is why he won't, at most he will fiddle with some reliefs.

    If you are so desperate to raise IHT and for wealth taxes off to Starmer Labour with you!
    Rishi will not be sacked and you are locked in some out of date mindset and not noticed how your PM has gone left and is now a big spending big taxing conservatives leader and PM
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,239
    edited October 16
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Yes but Labour have an easier way out if they care to choose it... tax the wealthy.
    Rishi needs to tax wealth but then is that enough and how much can you tax wealth before it becomes negative to the economy
    Imo you can tax wealth a lot before it starts impacting the economy! Most wealth is doing absolutely nothing for the economy: all that tied up in property for a start.

    But the beauty is you really don't need to tax it that much at all to get vast amounts of debt-reducing government income.

    PS The Tories will never do it properly because... donors.
    It would be even less palatable to the Tory vote than a beefed up inheritance tax, which at least doesn't affect you till you are dead. So it makes no sense to go to a wealth tax rather than beef up iht - scrap the property exemption, abolish the 7 year rule.
    I accept that the term wealth tax is emotive, but surely the actual impact depends on the threshold? If you set the threshold so that only the top 5% of wealth owners are impacted, and deliver that message clearly, most Tory voters will realise it's not affecting them. The 5% can afford it frankly.

    Still not happening though because... Tory donors.
    Partly donors, but also symbolism.

    As @HYUFD reminds us, the raising of the IHT threshold was very popular with Conservative supporters. Not so much because of the amounts to tax paid and saved, but because of what it represented. In many ways, inheritance is a rational time for tax to happen- the deceased has gone to a place where they won't mind and a tax taking a slice of a windfall is less painful than a tax on regular income. But the symbolism grates.

    The other tax that falls in the same category is fuel duty. It's been frozen for ages now, to the extent that it's a non-trivial hole in the national finances. We ought to be discouraging driving and encouraging more efficient use of vehicles. But it's untouchable. Partly out of fear of the fuel protests two decades ago, partly because White Van Man is the archetype of a type of Toryism, not to be punished.

    Rishi's problem is that the hefty tax rises announced in the Spring Budget (remember those?) and the NI increase announced in September don't look like being enough.

    And he's running out of sofas to rummage in for a few more coppers.
    We don't need any more tax rises, we are the Conservative party we are already spending quite enough as it is so no more rises in spending and we continue with cuts in overseas aid etc which were protected in the Cameron years.

    If voters want more tax and spend they can vote Labour, that is what Labour is for
    Tax and spend is the modern Conservative Party whether you like it or not. It's just only the workers who get taxed.
    Labour would have put up income tax and IHT too and imposed a wealth tax and spent more than the Tories too
    The point you are blind to is that due to covid and climate change the conservatives will have no choice
    Crap.

    Lockdown has ended, furlough has ended and hospitalisations have fallen sharply. There are no extra funds needed beyond those already given and climate change has sod all to do with public spending but replacing fossil fuels with renewables which we are world leaders in anyway. Otherwise it is getting the US, China and India to do something as they will have far more impact on it than we would
    You are in total denial

    There are none so blind as those who will not see
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,389
    edited October 16

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Yes but Labour have an easier way out if they care to choose it... tax the wealthy.
    Rishi needs to tax wealth but then is that enough and how much can you tax wealth before it becomes negative to the economy
    Imo you can tax wealth a lot before it starts impacting the economy! Most wealth is doing absolutely nothing for the economy: all that tied up in property for a start.

    But the beauty is you really don't need to tax it that much at all to get vast amounts of debt-reducing government income.

    PS The Tories will never do it properly because... donors.
    It would be even less palatable to the Tory vote than a beefed up inheritance tax, which at least doesn't affect you till you are dead. So it makes no sense to go to a wealth tax rather than beef up iht - scrap the property exemption, abolish the 7 year rule.
    I accept that the term wealth tax is emotive, but surely the actual impact depends on the threshold? If you set the threshold so that only the top 5% of wealth owners are impacted, and deliver that message clearly, most Tory voters will realise it's not affecting them. The 5% can afford it frankly.

    Still not happening though because... Tory donors.
    Partly donors, but also symbolism.

    As @HYUFD reminds us, the raising of the IHT threshold was very popular with Conservative supporters. Not so much because of the amounts to tax paid and saved, but because of what it represented. In many ways, inheritance is a rational time for tax to happen- the deceased has gone to a place where they won't mind and a tax taking a slice of a windfall is less painful than a tax on regular income. But the symbolism grates.

    The other tax that falls in the same category is fuel duty. It's been frozen for ages now, to the extent that it's a non-trivial hole in the national finances. We ought to be discouraging driving and encouraging more efficient use of vehicles. But it's untouchable. Partly out of fear of the fuel protests two decades ago, partly because White Van Man is the archetype of a type of Toryism, not to be punished.

    Rishi's problem is that the hefty tax rises announced in the Spring Budget (remember those?) and the NI increase announced in September don't look like being enough.

    And he's running out of sofas to rummage in for a few more coppers.
    We don't need any more tax rises, we are the Conservative party we are already spending quite enough as it is so no more rises in spending and we continue with cuts in overseas aid etc which were protected in the Cameron years.

    If voters want more tax and spend they can vote Labour, that is what Labour is for
    Tax and spend is the modern Conservative Party whether you like it or not. It's just only the workers who get taxed.
    Labour would have put up income tax and IHT too and imposed a wealth tax and spent more than the Tories too
    The point you are blind to is that due to covid and climate change the conservatives will have no choice
    Crap.

    Lockdown has ended, furlough has ended and hospitalisations have fallen sharply. There are no extra funds needed beyond those already given and climate change has sod all to do with public spending but replacing fossil fuels with renewables which we are world leaders in anyway. Otherwise it is getting the US, China and India to do something as they will have far more impact on it than we would
    You are in total denial

    There are none so blind as those who will not see
    You are in total denial you are in the wrong party.

    If you want to raise IHT and impose vast wealth taxes you have no place in the Tory Party
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Yes but Labour have an easier way out if they care to choose it... tax the wealthy.
    Rishi needs to tax wealth but then is that enough and how much can you tax wealth before it becomes negative to the economy
    Imo you can tax wealth a lot before it starts impacting the economy! Most wealth is doing absolutely nothing for the economy: all that tied up in property for a start.

    But the beauty is you really don't need to tax it that much at all to get vast amounts of debt-reducing government income.

    PS The Tories will never do it properly because... donors.
    It would be even less palatable to the Tory vote than a beefed up inheritance tax, which at least doesn't affect you till you are dead. So it makes no sense to go to a wealth tax rather than beef up iht - scrap the property exemption, abolish the 7 year rule.
    I accept that the term wealth tax is emotive, but surely the actual impact depends on the threshold? If you set the threshold so that only the top 5% of wealth owners are impacted, and deliver that message clearly, most Tory voters will realise it's not affecting them. The 5% can afford it frankly.

    Still not happening though because... Tory donors.
    Partly donors, but also symbolism.

    As @HYUFD reminds us, the raising of the IHT threshold was very popular with Conservative supporters. Not so much because of the amounts to tax paid and saved, but because of what it represented. In many ways, inheritance is a rational time for tax to happen- the deceased has gone to a place where they won't mind and a tax taking a slice of a windfall is less painful than a tax on regular income. But the symbolism grates.

    The other tax that falls in the same category is fuel duty. It's been frozen for ages now, to the extent that it's a non-trivial hole in the national finances. We ought to be discouraging driving and encouraging more efficient use of vehicles. But it's untouchable. Partly out of fear of the fuel protests two decades ago, partly because White Van Man is the archetype of a type of Toryism, not to be punished.

    Rishi's problem is that the hefty tax rises announced in the Spring Budget (remember those?) and the NI increase announced in September don't look like being enough.

    And he's running out of sofas to rummage in for a few more coppers.
    We don't need any more tax rises, we are the Conservative party we are already spending quite enough as it is so no more rises in spending and we continue with cuts in overseas aid etc which were protected in the Cameron years.

    If voters want more tax and spend they can vote Labour, that is what Labour is for
    Tax and spend is the modern Conservative Party whether you like it or not. It's just only the workers who get taxed.
    Labour would have put up income tax and IHT too and imposed a wealth tax and spent more than the Tories too
    The point you are blind to is that due to covid and climate change the conservatives will have no choice
    Crap.

    Lockdown has ended, furlough has ended and hospitalisations have fallen sharply. There are no extra funds needed beyond those already given and climate change has sod all to do with public spending but replacing fossil fuels with renewables which we are world leaders in anyway. Otherwise it is getting the US, China and India to do something as they will have far more impact on it than we would
    You are in total denial

    There are none so blind as those who will not see
    You are in total denial you are in the wrong party.

    I am not in any party
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,389
    edited October 16

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Yes but Labour have an easier way out if they care to choose it... tax the wealthy.
    Rishi needs to tax wealth but then is that enough and how much can you tax wealth before it becomes negative to the economy
    Imo you can tax wealth a lot before it starts impacting the economy! Most wealth is doing absolutely nothing for the economy: all that tied up in property for a start.

    But the beauty is you really don't need to tax it that much at all to get vast amounts of debt-reducing government income.

    PS The Tories will never do it properly because... donors.
    It would be even less palatable to the Tory vote than a beefed up inheritance tax, which at least doesn't affect you till you are dead. So it makes no sense to go to a wealth tax rather than beef up iht - scrap the property exemption, abolish the 7 year rule.
    I accept that the term wealth tax is emotive, but surely the actual impact depends on the threshold? If you set the threshold so that only the top 5% of wealth owners are impacted, and deliver that message clearly, most Tory voters will realise it's not affecting them. The 5% can afford it frankly.

    Still not happening though because... Tory donors.
    Partly donors, but also symbolism.

    As @HYUFD reminds us, the raising of the IHT threshold was very popular with Conservative supporters. Not so much because of the amounts to tax paid and saved, but because of what it represented. In many ways, inheritance is a rational time for tax to happen- the deceased has gone to a place where they won't mind and a tax taking a slice of a windfall is less painful than a tax on regular income. But the symbolism grates.

    The other tax that falls in the same category is fuel duty. It's been frozen for ages now, to the extent that it's a non-trivial hole in the national finances. We ought to be discouraging driving and encouraging more efficient use of vehicles. But it's untouchable. Partly out of fear of the fuel protests two decades ago, partly because White Van Man is the archetype of a type of Toryism, not to be punished.

    Rishi's problem is that the hefty tax rises announced in the Spring Budget (remember those?) and the NI increase announced in September don't look like being enough.

    And he's running out of sofas to rummage in for a few more coppers.
    We don't need any more tax rises, we are the Conservative party we are already spending quite enough as it is so no more rises in spending and we continue with cuts in overseas aid etc which were protected in the Cameron years.

    If voters like BigG want more tax and spend they can vote Starmer Labour, that is what Labour is for
    You may be eating your words on the 28th
    I won't, if Sunak puts up IHT he will be sacked within a week as the Tory vote would collapse in the South and especially see large leakage to ReformUK.

    Which is why he won't, at most he will fiddle with some reliefs.

    If you are so desperate to raise IHT and for wealth taxes off to Starmer Labour with you!
    Rishi will not be sacked and you are locked in some out of date mindset and not noticed how your PM has gone left and is now a big spending big taxing conservatives leader and PM
    Crap.

    Cameron and Osborne forced Brown to postpone a 2007 election because of their popular proposed IHT cut and won the 2015 election in large part to implement the IHT cut with a Tory majority.

    May lost her majority in 2017 because of proposing to take her core votes houses away. Boris is not as stupid as you are or May was and knows who his core vote is
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 17,834

    eek said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Easy - from future generations
    I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

    If not maybe you could expand your view
    The only options are borrow more or create a wealth tax - IHT won’t generate much
    As a matter of interest how do you see a wealth tax working
    My suggestion: 1% pa on all individual assets over £1m. Legal obligation to self-declare and complete an annual return.

    So, assets of £1m = £0 Wealth Tax (WT) pa
    Assets of £1.5m = £5k WT pac(£500k over threshold x 1%)
    Assets of £2m = £10k WT pa (£1m over threshold x 1%)
    Assets of £10m = £90k WT pa
    Assets of £101m = £1m WT pa
    etc.
    What is wealth please.... Is it someone with £1M in their pension pot or someone with a DB pension of £50k pa? The latter being worth more obviously.... Despite what the LTA says. Or is it Isas which were and are supposed to be tax-free... And what about VCTs?
    Ok first off, I haven't designed a whole fecking policy - I am just floating an idea.

    But all your points are answerable as part of an actual policy:

    Pension pots - I'd say exclude until crystalised, there are existing rules for that (which can also be used for DB pensions - if the LTA rules are wrong (which I agree they are) they need fixing anyway). If you draw down or buy an annuity you convert your pension pot into an income (as was always intended). If you choose to take it as a lump sum well, tough titty, you have a potentially WTable asset.

    ISAs I'd be inclined to include regardless, they were only sold as free from income and CGT imo. But really, if you exclude them, fair dos - you could still include values invested from 2022/3 onwards. Or exclude the completely - they're not holding the bulk of the wealth of the super-wealthy who are the target of this.

    VCTs - definitely include as an asset. Fecking scam for the wealthy imo.

  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 1,261
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 38% (-4)
    LAB: 37% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)

    via @DeltapollUK, 13 - 15 Oct
    Chgs. w/ 26 Jul

    Quite an odd poll. Looks like movement straight from the Tories to the LDs.

    Tory Remainers finally incensed by Brexit ‘shortages’? Suggests it won’t last IF the shortages ease
    Shortages are just one thing; increased taxes and prices will also potentially begin to impact.

    Disaffected Tory voters flocking to the LibDems is nothing new.

    But this is just one poll - see how things look by the end of the year.
    It looks as if pensioners are going to receive a near 4% rise in April and I assume other benefits will rise by the same amount

    Also expect a substantial rise in the minimum wage in the budget, together with other measures to help the low paid

    I would be very surprised if Rishi does not do the above

    Where's the money coming from Big_G?
    Exactly

    And that is the unanswered question for both parties as they face the same demands

    At least on the 27th we may have some idea
    Easy - from future generations
    I assume you mean IHT which I have argued incessantly with @HYUFD about as I believe I million exemption is too high

    If not maybe you could expand your view
    Well please go to Starmer Labour or the LDs then to pursue your case further as the Tories are not going to remove it as Osborne's raising the IHT thereshold to £1 million was the most popular Tory policy this century, especially in London and the South
    I am being polite as I can when I say you are so boring

    And entirely self interest - why should people in the north subside your housing deposit in the south
    People in the North and Midlands and Scotland and Wales and NI on average incomes have far lower costs of living than in the South and can afford to buy a property on an average wage.

    People on an average wage in most of London and much of the South East need to inherit or have parental assistance to help them be able to afford the deposit and be able to buy a property
    No. We need to tax the Mummy and Daddy money away as that distorts the property market in South East so ordinary decent working class people have a chance to get on.
    What a load of rubbish.

    As long as London remains a global city and attracts foreign investment and large numbers of high earning incomers from across the UK and abroad those born there will not be able to afford to buy there unless they get a high income or inherit.

    Londoners who cannot afford to buy in the capital will then move out to the Home Counties to buy in turn pricing out those born in the Home Counties unless they get an above average income or inherit.
    Worst post of all time!

    I being from a poor working class background have managed to buy a house in London by my own achievements and without the help of mummy or daddy money which is a good job as there wasn't any.

    @HYUFD did you buy your flat in Epping fully on your own resources? :lol:

    Your policies on inheritance deny social mobility and you really have no idea whatsoever.
This discussion has been closed.