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Leicester East – a possible by-election? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited October 13 in General
imageLeicester East – a possible by-election? – politicalbetting.com

Labour is calling on Leicester East MP Claudia Webbe to quit her seat after she was found guilty of a campaign of harassment including threatening an acid attack. At GE2019 she stood for Labour in Leicester East but now is an independent.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 17,893
    First, like Labour in Leicester East
  • Ooh yes please.
  • FPT

    This truly is a leftie government, Sunak is a pound shop Gordon Brown.

    Pension savers face risk of higher fees as Sunak seeks billions for ‘levelling up’

    Ministers are looking to relax rules shielding tens of millions of UK retirement savers from high charges as they step up efforts to funnel pension fund cash into the government’s “levelling up” agenda.

    Officials are working on proposals to dilute the 0.75 per cent ceiling on annual management fees, which was put in place in 2016 to protect workers auto-enrolled into workplace pensions from having their savings eroded by high charges.

    Chancellor Rishi Sunak is looking at ways to tap billions of pounds of pension fund cash to invest in long-term projects, including infrastructure schemes, renewable energy projects and innovative tech firms, to help deliver on UK prime minister Boris Johnson’s pledge to spread economic growth across the UK.


    https://www.ft.com/content/a8cad0f1-fd85-40ed-aa19-e71728f10825
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 17,893
    edited October 13
    FPT:

    This truly is a leftie government, Sunak is a pound shop Gordon Brown.

    Pension savers face risk of higher fees as Sunak seeks billions for ‘levelling up’

    Ministers are looking to relax rules shielding tens of millions of UK retirement savers from high charges as they step up efforts to funnel pension fund cash into the government’s “levelling up” agenda.

    Officials are working on proposals to dilute the 0.75 per cent ceiling on annual management fees, which was put in place in 2016 to protect workers auto-enrolled into workplace pensions from having their savings eroded by high charges.

    Chancellor Rishi Sunak is looking at ways to tap billions of pounds of pension fund cash to invest in long-term projects, including infrastructure schemes, renewable energy projects and innovative tech firms, to help deliver on UK prime minister Boris Johnson’s pledge to spread economic growth across the UK.


    https://www.ft.com/content/a8cad0f1-fd85-40ed-aa19-e71728f10825

    How does diluting (i.e. presumably, increasing or removing) the ceiling on annual management fees increase tax revenues by any worthwhile amount?
  • pingping Posts: 1,415
    edited October 13
    What a vile individual, Claudia Webbe.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 68,478

    FPT:

    This truly is a leftie government, Sunak is a pound shop Gordon Brown.

    Pension savers face risk of higher fees as Sunak seeks billions for ‘levelling up’

    Ministers are looking to relax rules shielding tens of millions of UK retirement savers from high charges as they step up efforts to funnel pension fund cash into the government’s “levelling up” agenda.

    Officials are working on proposals to dilute the 0.75 per cent ceiling on annual management fees, which was put in place in 2016 to protect workers auto-enrolled into workplace pensions from having their savings eroded by high charges.

    Chancellor Rishi Sunak is looking at ways to tap billions of pounds of pension fund cash to invest in long-term projects, including infrastructure schemes, renewable energy projects and innovative tech firms, to help deliver on UK prime minister Boris Johnson’s pledge to spread economic growth across the UK.


    https://www.ft.com/content/a8cad0f1-fd85-40ed-aa19-e71728f10825

    How does diluting (i.e. presumably, increasing or removing) the ceiling on annual management fees increase tax revenues by any worthwhile amount?
    0.75% for the coke snorting broker, 0.5% for the Gov't :p ?
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 7,197

    FPT

    This truly is a leftie government, Sunak is a pound shop Gordon Brown.

    Pension savers face risk of higher fees as Sunak seeks billions for ‘levelling up’

    Ministers are looking to relax rules shielding tens of millions of UK retirement savers from high charges as they step up efforts to funnel pension fund cash into the government’s “levelling up” agenda.

    Officials are working on proposals to dilute the 0.75 per cent ceiling on annual management fees, which was put in place in 2016 to protect workers auto-enrolled into workplace pensions from having their savings eroded by high charges.

    Chancellor Rishi Sunak is looking at ways to tap billions of pounds of pension fund cash to invest in long-term projects, including infrastructure schemes, renewable energy projects and innovative tech firms, to help deliver on UK prime minister Boris Johnson’s pledge to spread economic growth across the UK.


    https://www.ft.com/content/a8cad0f1-fd85-40ed-aa19-e71728f10825

    Believe me, Sir, those who attempt to level, never equalize.

    Edmund Burke
  • If Webbe goes down the appellate route we might not see any by election until the latter half of 2022 or later.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,594
    Time for Ed Balls to hit the Golden Mile.
  • FPT:

    This truly is a leftie government, Sunak is a pound shop Gordon Brown.

    Pension savers face risk of higher fees as Sunak seeks billions for ‘levelling up’

    Ministers are looking to relax rules shielding tens of millions of UK retirement savers from high charges as they step up efforts to funnel pension fund cash into the government’s “levelling up” agenda.

    Officials are working on proposals to dilute the 0.75 per cent ceiling on annual management fees, which was put in place in 2016 to protect workers auto-enrolled into workplace pensions from having their savings eroded by high charges.

    Chancellor Rishi Sunak is looking at ways to tap billions of pounds of pension fund cash to invest in long-term projects, including infrastructure schemes, renewable energy projects and innovative tech firms, to help deliver on UK prime minister Boris Johnson’s pledge to spread economic growth across the UK.


    https://www.ft.com/content/a8cad0f1-fd85-40ed-aa19-e71728f10825

    How does diluting (i.e. presumably, increasing or removing) the ceiling on annual management fees increase tax revenues by any worthwhile amount?
    A small amount of a large amount raises a lot.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,654
    ping said:

    What a vile individual, Claudia Webbe.

    Don't be so damned polite, she does not deserve that consideration.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,594
    Wont there be a GE anyway before her appeal and the recall petition go through the system?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 38,753
    Corbyn calls for “absolute solidarity” with Claudia Webbe.

    https://twitter.com/adamlangleben/status/1448360094450819075
  • The Tories also need to stop dragging their feet and work with Labour and kick out the awful Rob Roberts out of the Commons.
  • isamisam Posts: 38,524
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,594

    ping said:

    What a vile individual, Claudia Webbe.

    Don't be so damned polite, she does not deserve that consideration.
    Head of handling anti-semitism under Corbyn.


  • TazTaz Posts: 2,475

    Corbyn calls for “absolute solidarity” with Claudia Webbe.

    https://twitter.com/adamlangleben/status/1448360094450819075

    It’s awful,judgement but was in September before the verdict.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,654

    Wont there be a GE anyway before her appeal and the recall petition go through the system?

    Won't she be booted out of Labour, permanently ?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 17,893

    FPT:

    This truly is a leftie government, Sunak is a pound shop Gordon Brown.

    Pension savers face risk of higher fees as Sunak seeks billions for ‘levelling up’

    Ministers are looking to relax rules shielding tens of millions of UK retirement savers from high charges as they step up efforts to funnel pension fund cash into the government’s “levelling up” agenda.

    Officials are working on proposals to dilute the 0.75 per cent ceiling on annual management fees, which was put in place in 2016 to protect workers auto-enrolled into workplace pensions from having their savings eroded by high charges.

    Chancellor Rishi Sunak is looking at ways to tap billions of pounds of pension fund cash to invest in long-term projects, including infrastructure schemes, renewable energy projects and innovative tech firms, to help deliver on UK prime minister Boris Johnson’s pledge to spread economic growth across the UK.


    https://www.ft.com/content/a8cad0f1-fd85-40ed-aa19-e71728f10825

    How does diluting (i.e. presumably, increasing or removing) the ceiling on annual management fees increase tax revenues by any worthwhile amount?
    A small amount of a large amount raises a lot.
    FFS there are far more straightforward ways of raising a large amount.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 68,478

    The Tories also need to stop dragging their feet and work with Labour and kick out the awful Rob Roberts out of the Commons.

    I make Delyn an almost certain Labour gain, particularly in a by-election.
  • pingping Posts: 1,415
    edited October 13

    FPT:

    This truly is a leftie government, Sunak is a pound shop Gordon Brown.

    Pension savers face risk of higher fees as Sunak seeks billions for ‘levelling up’

    Ministers are looking to relax rules shielding tens of millions of UK retirement savers from high charges as they step up efforts to funnel pension fund cash into the government’s “levelling up” agenda.

    Officials are working on proposals to dilute the 0.75 per cent ceiling on annual management fees, which was put in place in 2016 to protect workers auto-enrolled into workplace pensions from having their savings eroded by high charges.

    Chancellor Rishi Sunak is looking at ways to tap billions of pounds of pension fund cash to invest in long-term projects, including infrastructure schemes, renewable energy projects and innovative tech firms, to help deliver on UK prime minister Boris Johnson’s pledge to spread economic growth across the UK.


    https://www.ft.com/content/a8cad0f1-fd85-40ed-aa19-e71728f10825

    How does diluting (i.e. presumably, increasing or removing) the ceiling on annual management fees increase tax revenues by any worthwhile amount?
    I’m not sure the point is to raise tax, rather redirect pension savings.

    Makes sense, imo.

    Slightly related; I’ve long thought the nimby problem could be overcome by getting buy-in from locals with a structured savings product. A kind of hyper-local NS&I bond, paying inflation-linked interest, funnelled into housing association developments in your area.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,594

    If Webbe goes down the appellate route we might not see any by election until the latter half of 2022 or later.

    The mess the courts are in I reckon a GE will have happened before the appeal.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,562
    edited October 13
    Pulpstar said:

    FPT:

    This truly is a leftie government, Sunak is a pound shop Gordon Brown.

    Pension savers face risk of higher fees as Sunak seeks billions for ‘levelling up’

    Ministers are looking to relax rules shielding tens of millions of UK retirement savers from high charges as they step up efforts to funnel pension fund cash into the government’s “levelling up” agenda.

    Officials are working on proposals to dilute the 0.75 per cent ceiling on annual management fees, which was put in place in 2016 to protect workers auto-enrolled into workplace pensions from having their savings eroded by high charges.

    Chancellor Rishi Sunak is looking at ways to tap billions of pounds of pension fund cash to invest in long-term projects, including infrastructure schemes, renewable energy projects and innovative tech firms, to help deliver on UK prime minister Boris Johnson’s pledge to spread economic growth across the UK.


    https://www.ft.com/content/a8cad0f1-fd85-40ed-aa19-e71728f10825

    How does diluting (i.e. presumably, increasing or removing) the ceiling on annual management fees increase tax revenues by any worthwhile amount?
    0.75% for the coke snorting broker, 0.5% for the Gov't :p ?
    Ah hem.

    0.75% goes to the fund manager. A sober individual like I used to be.

    The coke snorting broker* gets paid from the commissions that the fund pays when it buys or sells shares. In the old days, that was as much 0.25%, and brokers drove 911s. Now it's more likely to be 0.04 or 0.05%, and brokers bitch about how much better paid fund managers now are.

    * Not *all* brokers snort cocaine. Some of them prefer Adderell.
  • TazTaz Posts: 2,475

    First, like Labour in Leicester East

    Yes, it is hard to see any result,other than an easy labour hold here.

    Should a by election happen.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,562
    ping said:

    What a vile individual, Claudia Webbe.

    Personally I wouldn't trust any parent that wasn't prepared to throw acid in the eyes of people who impeded their childrens' rise.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 97,887
    edited October 13

    FPT:

    This truly is a leftie government, Sunak is a pound shop Gordon Brown.

    Pension savers face risk of higher fees as Sunak seeks billions for ‘levelling up’

    Ministers are looking to relax rules shielding tens of millions of UK retirement savers from high charges as they step up efforts to funnel pension fund cash into the government’s “levelling up” agenda.

    Officials are working on proposals to dilute the 0.75 per cent ceiling on annual management fees, which was put in place in 2016 to protect workers auto-enrolled into workplace pensions from having their savings eroded by high charges.

    Chancellor Rishi Sunak is looking at ways to tap billions of pounds of pension fund cash to invest in long-term projects, including infrastructure schemes, renewable energy projects and innovative tech firms, to help deliver on UK prime minister Boris Johnson’s pledge to spread economic growth across the UK.


    https://www.ft.com/content/a8cad0f1-fd85-40ed-aa19-e71728f10825

    How does diluting (i.e. presumably, increasing or removing) the ceiling on annual management fees increase tax revenues by any worthwhile amount?
    A small amount of a large amount raises a lot.
    FFS there are far more straightforward ways of raising a large amount.
    This is one of the things the voters won't notice until they retire, then they will be really annoyed.

    The further away from retirement you are the more you're screwed.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 17,893
    ping said:

    FPT:

    This truly is a leftie government, Sunak is a pound shop Gordon Brown.

    Pension savers face risk of higher fees as Sunak seeks billions for ‘levelling up’

    Ministers are looking to relax rules shielding tens of millions of UK retirement savers from high charges as they step up efforts to funnel pension fund cash into the government’s “levelling up” agenda.

    Officials are working on proposals to dilute the 0.75 per cent ceiling on annual management fees, which was put in place in 2016 to protect workers auto-enrolled into workplace pensions from having their savings eroded by high charges.

    Chancellor Rishi Sunak is looking at ways to tap billions of pounds of pension fund cash to invest in long-term projects, including infrastructure schemes, renewable energy projects and innovative tech firms, to help deliver on UK prime minister Boris Johnson’s pledge to spread economic growth across the UK.


    https://www.ft.com/content/a8cad0f1-fd85-40ed-aa19-e71728f10825

    How does diluting (i.e. presumably, increasing or removing) the ceiling on annual management fees increase tax revenues by any worthwhile amount?
    I’m not sure the point is to raise tax, rather redirect pension savings.

    Makes sense, imo.

    Slightly related; I’ve long thought the nimby problem could be overcome by getting buy-in from locals with a structured savings product. A kind of hyper-local NS&I bond, paying inflation-linked interest, funnelled into housing association developments in your area.
    It's surely only going to redirect pension savings into the pockets of money-grabbing fund managers?
  • Pulpstar said:

    The Tories also need to stop dragging their feet and work with Labour and kick out the awful Rob Roberts out of the Commons.

    I make Delyn an almost certain Labour gain, particularly in a by-election.
    Same, even if BXP don't stand, I make it a Lab gain.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,562

    If Webbe goes down the appellate route we might not see any by election until the latter half of 2022 or later.

    Does she have grounds for an appeal?

    Because a lot of people talk a good game about appealing... but then when they are appraised of the cost (high) and the likelihood of success (low), they reconsider.

    It's like the stages of grief.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 17,893

    FPT:

    This truly is a leftie government, Sunak is a pound shop Gordon Brown.

    Pension savers face risk of higher fees as Sunak seeks billions for ‘levelling up’

    Ministers are looking to relax rules shielding tens of millions of UK retirement savers from high charges as they step up efforts to funnel pension fund cash into the government’s “levelling up” agenda.

    Officials are working on proposals to dilute the 0.75 per cent ceiling on annual management fees, which was put in place in 2016 to protect workers auto-enrolled into workplace pensions from having their savings eroded by high charges.

    Chancellor Rishi Sunak is looking at ways to tap billions of pounds of pension fund cash to invest in long-term projects, including infrastructure schemes, renewable energy projects and innovative tech firms, to help deliver on UK prime minister Boris Johnson’s pledge to spread economic growth across the UK.


    https://www.ft.com/content/a8cad0f1-fd85-40ed-aa19-e71728f10825

    How does diluting (i.e. presumably, increasing or removing) the ceiling on annual management fees increase tax revenues by any worthwhile amount?
    A small amount of a large amount raises a lot.
    FFS there are far more straightforward ways of raising a large amount.
    This is one of the things the voters won't notice until they retire, then they will be really annoyed.

    The further away from retirement you are the more you're screwed.
    NI on all income. Simple.

    (I offer that as one of the retired who would be adversely affected but why should I pay less on my income than you poor sods working every day to keep the country solvent?)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 97,887
    edited October 13
    rcs1000 said:

    If Webbe goes down the appellate route we might not see any by election until the latter half of 2022 or later.

    Does she have grounds for an appeal?

    Because a lot of people talk a good game about appealing... but then when they are appraised of the cost (high) and the likelihood of success (low), they reconsider.

    It's like the stages of grief.
    Given the current backlog in HMCTS you can lodge an appeal and do no work on it because it might not get heard for a year.

    It'll give her a year's worth of extra income as an MP plus expenses.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 2,992
    isam said:
    Given the leave vote, and that it was a pretty safe Labour seat, the 2019 Brexit Party vote (2.5%) looks surprisingly low to me.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 4,554

    Time for Ed Balls to hit the Golden Mile.

    I wondered if that was a euphemism but then realised it was a reference to strictly.
  • Taz said:

    First, like Labour in Leicester East

    Yes, it is hard to see any result,other than an easy labour hold here.

    Should a by election happen.
    Any opportunities for the Gorgeous George roadshow to split the Labour vote here?
  • In January it was reported there was a 4 year wait in the English & Welsh courts.

    https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/jan/10/covid-leading-to-four-year-waits-for-england-and-wales-court-trials
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205

    rcs1000 said:

    If Webbe goes down the appellate route we might not see any by election until the latter half of 2022 or later.

    Does she have grounds for an appeal?

    Because a lot of people talk a good game about appealing... but then when they are appraised of the cost (high) and the likelihood of success (low), they reconsider.

    It's like the stages of grief.
    Given the current backlog in HMCTS you can lodge an appeal and do no work on it because it might not get heard for a year.

    It'll give her a year's worth of extra income as an MP plus expenses.
    Plus, AIUI, another year of freedom pending the appeal.
  • This isn't just about Claudia Webbe. Its about the hard left fighting a bitter defence against the evil Tories like serkeir. Webbe may be a Bully and a Liar, but she remains to them the people's princess, a proud comrade who remains the absolutely best person who should have been impartially managing allegations of anti-semitism against fellow hard left comrades.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 2,992

    Corbyn calls for “absolute solidarity” with Claudia Webbe.

    https://twitter.com/adamlangleben/status/1448360094450819075

    You've deliberately written this as if Corbyn said this today, whereas it was several weeks ago. He clearly wouldn't repeat it now. I'm not defending Corbyn - he was a twit to say it then - but she hadn't been found guilty then, and she was pleading innocence.
  • TazTaz Posts: 2,475

    Taz said:

    First, like Labour in Leicester East

    Yes, it is hard to see any result,other than an easy labour hold here.

    Should a by election happen.
    Any opportunities for the Gorgeous George roadshow to split the Labour vote here?
    I wonder if his time has past. He failed in Batley and Spen. Would he even stand ?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,592

    If Webbe goes down the appellate route we might not see any by election until the latter half of 2022 or later.

    The mess the courts are in I reckon a GE will have happened before the appeal.
    What would the grounds for appeal be? Doesn't it have to be more than "I don't like the verdict"?

    I would think safe Labour hold if they let the local party pick a good local candidate. Webbe was the worst sort of parachuted in candidate. If another is dropped in then bets would be off.
  • pingping Posts: 1,415
    edited October 13

    ping said:

    FPT:

    This truly is a leftie government, Sunak is a pound shop Gordon Brown.

    Pension savers face risk of higher fees as Sunak seeks billions for ‘levelling up’

    Ministers are looking to relax rules shielding tens of millions of UK retirement savers from high charges as they step up efforts to funnel pension fund cash into the government’s “levelling up” agenda.

    Officials are working on proposals to dilute the 0.75 per cent ceiling on annual management fees, which was put in place in 2016 to protect workers auto-enrolled into workplace pensions from having their savings eroded by high charges.

    Chancellor Rishi Sunak is looking at ways to tap billions of pounds of pension fund cash to invest in long-term projects, including infrastructure schemes, renewable energy projects and innovative tech firms, to help deliver on UK prime minister Boris Johnson’s pledge to spread economic growth across the UK.


    https://www.ft.com/content/a8cad0f1-fd85-40ed-aa19-e71728f10825

    How does diluting (i.e. presumably, increasing or removing) the ceiling on annual management fees increase tax revenues by any worthwhile amount?
    I’m not sure the point is to raise tax, rather redirect pension savings.

    Makes sense, imo.

    Slightly related; I’ve long thought the nimby problem could be overcome by getting buy-in from locals with a structured savings product. A kind of hyper-local NS&I bond, paying inflation-linked interest, funnelled into housing association developments in your area.
    It's surely only going to redirect pension savings into the pockets of money-grabbing fund managers?
    I dunno, but I guess these levelling up type projects will require a bit more active management than your regular ftse-index tracker, or commercial property fund, or whatever.

    I think that’s where Sunak is coming from.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 38,753

    Corbyn calls for “absolute solidarity” with Claudia Webbe.

    https://twitter.com/adamlangleben/status/1448360094450819075

    You've deliberately written this as if Corbyn said this today, whereas it was several weeks ago. He clearly wouldn't repeat it now. I'm not defending Corbyn - he was a twit to say it then - but she hadn't been found guilty then, and she was pleading innocence.
    I was too quick and didn't realise that the video had been reposted.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 2,992

    rcs1000 said:

    If Webbe goes down the appellate route we might not see any by election until the latter half of 2022 or later.

    Does she have grounds for an appeal?

    Because a lot of people talk a good game about appealing... but then when they are appraised of the cost (high) and the likelihood of success (low), they reconsider.

    It's like the stages of grief.
    Given the current backlog in HMCTS you can lodge an appeal and do no work on it because it might not get heard for a year.

    It'll give her a year's worth of extra income as an MP plus expenses.
    I agree, and that's why once an MP has been disowned by their party for wrongdoing they should be under much more pressure to do the honourable thing and resign.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,478

    Taz said:

    First, like Labour in Leicester East

    Yes, it is hard to see any result,other than an easy labour hold here.

    Should a by election happen.
    Any opportunities for the Gorgeous George roadshow to split the Labour vote here?
    Not sure Galloway goes down well in the Hindu community.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 2,992

    Corbyn calls for “absolute solidarity” with Claudia Webbe.

    https://twitter.com/adamlangleben/status/1448360094450819075

    You've deliberately written this as if Corbyn said this today, whereas it was several weeks ago. He clearly wouldn't repeat it now. I'm not defending Corbyn - he was a twit to say it then - but she hadn't been found guilty then, and she was pleading innocence.
    I was too quick and didn't realise that the video had been reposted.
    Fair enough - sorry for snapping at you.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    rcs1000 said:

    ping said:

    What a vile individual, Claudia Webbe.

    Personally I wouldn't trust any parent that wasn't prepared to throw acid in the eyes of people who impeded their childrens' rise.
    What?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,592
    edited October 13

    isam said:
    Given the leave vote, and that it was a pretty safe Labour seat, the 2019 Brexit Party vote (2.5%) looks surprisingly low to me.
    The East of the city is quite ethnic, and voters there often believed that Brexit would allow more immigration from their home countries. Priti Patel would go down well in some parts, though not others, but not really a community obsessed with "traditional British values". It ain't Hartlepool.
  • dixiedean said:

    Taz said:

    First, like Labour in Leicester East

    Yes, it is hard to see any result,other than an easy labour hold here.

    Should a by election happen.
    Any opportunities for the Gorgeous George roadshow to split the Labour vote here?
    Not sure Galloway goes down well in the Hindu community.
    Good point. Not sure that, or his repeated failures, are smaller factors than GG's ego though. Even if he can't win, he can still cause trouble.
  • isamisam Posts: 38,524
    Good Lord, Keith Vaz’s crime sheet is off the charts!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Vaz
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,592

    dixiedean said:

    Taz said:

    First, like Labour in Leicester East

    Yes, it is hard to see any result,other than an easy labour hold here.

    Should a by election happen.
    Any opportunities for the Gorgeous George roadshow to split the Labour vote here?
    Not sure Galloway goes down well in the Hindu community.
    Good point. Not sure that, or his repeated failures, are smaller factors than GG's ego though. Even if he can't win, he can still cause trouble.
    There is a significant Muslim community too, and you do see cars with Palestinian flags in the constituency, but it isn't really a place for the itinerant cat impersonator.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 1,395

    In January it was reported there was a 4 year wait in the English & Welsh courts.

    https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/jan/10/covid-leading-to-four-year-waits-for-england-and-wales-court-trials

    And the Tories are going to solve this by cutting their funding (again)
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 3,585

    Corbyn calls for “absolute solidarity” with Claudia Webbe.

    https://twitter.com/adamlangleben/status/1448360094450819075

    You've deliberately written this as if Corbyn said this today, whereas it was several weeks ago. He clearly wouldn't repeat it now. I'm not defending Corbyn - he was a twit to say it then - but she hadn't been found guilty then, and she was pleading innocence.
    Based on what Corbyn said in that clip from September, he might as well have said it today. Words to the effect that "Here is a list of our far left comrades attacked by the evil media, Claudia has joined the list, so she's just the latest victim of a witchhunt by the media and we stand by her in solidarity." Don't fool yourself that the evidence of today's proceedings could possibly change such a prejudiced view, although he might now add the evil capitalist courts to the list of those perpetrating the witchhunt.

    He's so much more than just a "twit".
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,592
    edited October 13
    isam said:

    Good Lord, Keith Vaz’s crime sheet is off the charts!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Vaz

    Sure, but he was a popular MP locally. He knew how to cultivate and porkbarrel his constituency!

    I remember eating in a curry house on the Golden Mile* when Vaz came in with a friend, and the waiter immediately went over to serve him before returning to our table with the quip "sorry about that, but you never know when a relative is going to need help with something".

    * Not what it was in its Eighties heyday. Between the internet and cheap flights, shoppers now often buy direct from India rather than our little Gujerat. Its still a good place to eat though.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,629
    Has @BJO commented yet?
  • TazTaz Posts: 2,475
    CatMan said:

    In January it was reported there was a 4 year wait in the English & Welsh courts.

    https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/jan/10/covid-leading-to-four-year-waits-for-england-and-wales-court-trials

    And the Tories are going to solve this by cutting their funding (again)
    The Party of Law and order, no less.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 64,406
    CatMan said:

    In January it was reported there was a 4 year wait in the English & Welsh courts.

    https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/jan/10/covid-leading-to-four-year-waits-for-england-and-wales-court-trials

    And the Tories are going to solve this by cutting their funding (again)
    That really is a false economy.

    Getting and keeping a criminal off the streets prevents multiple future crimes, and multiple future court cases.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,562

    Taz said:

    First, like Labour in Leicester East

    Yes, it is hard to see any result,other than an easy labour hold here.

    Should a by election happen.
    Any opportunities for the Gorgeous George roadshow to split the Labour vote here?
    I did a quick "back of the envelope" calculation for Batley & Spen. Basically, looking at the proportion of Muslims in a constituency and Galloway's vote share.

    Basically, it looked like he tops out (pretty consistently) at about 60% of the Muslim share for the constituency. Leicester East is 48% Asian, but 33% of that is Hindu and only 15% is Muslim. This would put GG's potential at around 10% of the vote, or maybe a little lower.

    Could this be enough to cause Labour to lose the seat?

    I doubt it.

    My guess - fwiw - is that the December 2019 result was a bad one for the Labour Party at least in part because all the students had returned home.

    I therefore think that the real Labour majority is slightly undercooked here.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,562
    edited October 13

    CatMan said:

    In January it was reported there was a 4 year wait in the English & Welsh courts.

    https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/jan/10/covid-leading-to-four-year-waits-for-england-and-wales-court-trials

    And the Tories are going to solve this by cutting their funding (again)
    That really is a false economy.

    Getting and keeping a criminal off the streets prevents multiple future crimes, and multiple future court cases.
    Absolutely.

    Jail in four years is nowhere near as much a deterrent as jail now.

    And it will inevitably end up with more people getting away with crimes than would otherwise be the case.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 12,733
    I once met Peter Brunivels in a pub in Uppingham just prior to the 1983.GE. At the time he was comfortably the Conservative MP for nearby Leicester East.
  • isamisam Posts: 38,524
    Was Webbe ever all the ticket? What on earth is this all about?

    https://youtu.be/pH-_wRC8bt4
  • TazTaz Posts: 2,475
    rcs1000 said:

    CatMan said:

    In January it was reported there was a 4 year wait in the English & Welsh courts.

    https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/jan/10/covid-leading-to-four-year-waits-for-england-and-wales-court-trials

    And the Tories are going to solve this by cutting their funding (again)
    That really is a false economy.

    Getting and keeping a criminal off the streets prevents multiple future crimes, and multiple future court cases.
    Absolutely.

    Justice delayed is - all too often - going to end up with justice not happening at all.
    Are there statutes of limitations on some crimes which may mean such a delay effectively stops any trial taking place ?
  • TazTaz Posts: 2,475
    isam said:

    Was Webbe ever all the ticket? What on earth is this all about?

    https://youtu.be/pH-_wRC8bt4

    Her twitter feed makes Zarah Sultana seem quite rational.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 31,859

    FPT:

    This truly is a leftie government, Sunak is a pound shop Gordon Brown.

    Pension savers face risk of higher fees as Sunak seeks billions for ‘levelling up’

    Ministers are looking to relax rules shielding tens of millions of UK retirement savers from high charges as they step up efforts to funnel pension fund cash into the government’s “levelling up” agenda.

    Officials are working on proposals to dilute the 0.75 per cent ceiling on annual management fees, which was put in place in 2016 to protect workers auto-enrolled into workplace pensions from having their savings eroded by high charges.

    Chancellor Rishi Sunak is looking at ways to tap billions of pounds of pension fund cash to invest in long-term projects, including infrastructure schemes, renewable energy projects and innovative tech firms, to help deliver on UK prime minister Boris Johnson’s pledge to spread economic growth across the UK.


    https://www.ft.com/content/a8cad0f1-fd85-40ed-aa19-e71728f10825

    How does diluting (i.e. presumably, increasing or removing) the ceiling on annual management fees increase tax revenues by any worthwhile amount?
    The biggest asset manager for auto enrolled pensions is NEST. That's the state owned pensions asset management company. Uncapping fees will mean millions of people will be hit with higher charges by NEST and these will be people on the lower end of the income scale too because employers that use NEST are more likely to be smaller companies and companies with lower paid people.

    Honestly, it's just another example of the Tory party kicking working people and a reason we need a strong opposition that will stand up for working age people and start to tax over 65s properly.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,478
    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    First, like Labour in Leicester East

    Yes, it is hard to see any result,other than an easy labour hold here.

    Should a by election happen.
    Any opportunities for the Gorgeous George roadshow to split the Labour vote here?
    I did a quick "back of the envelope" calculation for Batley & Spen. Basically, looking at the proportion of Muslims in a constituency and Galloway's vote share.

    Basically, it looked like he tops out (pretty consistently) at about 60% of the Muslim share for the constituency. Leicester East is 48% Asian, but 33% of that is Hindu and only 15% is Muslim. This would put GG's potential at around 10% of the vote, or maybe a little lower.

    Could this be enough to cause Labour to lose the seat?

    I doubt it.

    My guess - fwiw - is that the December 2019 result was a bad one for the Labour Party at least in part because all the students had returned home.

    I therefore think that the real Labour majority is slightly undercooked here.
    Hang on. Does 48% Asian, 33% Hindu equal 15% Muslim?
    Are there no Sikhs? Let alone Jains, Buddhists, Chinese, etc.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,770
    Taz said:

    rcs1000 said:

    CatMan said:

    In January it was reported there was a 4 year wait in the English & Welsh courts.

    https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/jan/10/covid-leading-to-four-year-waits-for-england-and-wales-court-trials

    And the Tories are going to solve this by cutting their funding (again)
    That really is a false economy.

    Getting and keeping a criminal off the streets prevents multiple future crimes, and multiple future court cases.
    Absolutely.

    Justice delayed is - all too often - going to end up with justice not happening at all.
    Are there statutes of limitations on some crimes which may mean such a delay effectively stops any trial taking place ?
    No, English law doesn't do statutes of limitations for crime.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,562
    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    First, like Labour in Leicester East

    Yes, it is hard to see any result,other than an easy labour hold here.

    Should a by election happen.
    Any opportunities for the Gorgeous George roadshow to split the Labour vote here?
    I did a quick "back of the envelope" calculation for Batley & Spen. Basically, looking at the proportion of Muslims in a constituency and Galloway's vote share.

    Basically, it looked like he tops out (pretty consistently) at about 60% of the Muslim share for the constituency. Leicester East is 48% Asian, but 33% of that is Hindu and only 15% is Muslim. This would put GG's potential at around 10% of the vote, or maybe a little lower.

    Could this be enough to cause Labour to lose the seat?

    I doubt it.

    My guess - fwiw - is that the December 2019 result was a bad one for the Labour Party at least in part because all the students had returned home.

    I therefore think that the real Labour majority is slightly undercooked here.
    Hang on. Does 48% Asian, 33% Hindu equal 15% Muslim?
    Are there no Sikhs? Let alone Jains, Buddhists, Chinese, etc.
    Fair point.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 31,859
    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    FPT:

    This truly is a leftie government, Sunak is a pound shop Gordon Brown.

    Pension savers face risk of higher fees as Sunak seeks billions for ‘levelling up’

    Ministers are looking to relax rules shielding tens of millions of UK retirement savers from high charges as they step up efforts to funnel pension fund cash into the government’s “levelling up” agenda.

    Officials are working on proposals to dilute the 0.75 per cent ceiling on annual management fees, which was put in place in 2016 to protect workers auto-enrolled into workplace pensions from having their savings eroded by high charges.

    Chancellor Rishi Sunak is looking at ways to tap billions of pounds of pension fund cash to invest in long-term projects, including infrastructure schemes, renewable energy projects and innovative tech firms, to help deliver on UK prime minister Boris Johnson’s pledge to spread economic growth across the UK.


    https://www.ft.com/content/a8cad0f1-fd85-40ed-aa19-e71728f10825

    How does diluting (i.e. presumably, increasing or removing) the ceiling on annual management fees increase tax revenues by any worthwhile amount?
    0.75% for the coke snorting broker, 0.5% for the Gov't :p ?
    Ah hem.

    0.75% goes to the fund manager. A sober individual like I used to be.

    The coke snorting broker* gets paid from the commissions that the fund pays when it buys or sells shares. In the old days, that was as much 0.25%, and brokers drove 911s. Now it's more likely to be 0.04 or 0.05%, and brokers bitch about how much better paid fund managers now are.

    * Not *all* brokers snort cocaine. Some of them prefer Adderell.
    The issue here is that the fund manager for millions of people's pensions is the state via NEST. Raising the cap on fees is simply another tax raising measure on working age people.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,562
    Taz said:

    rcs1000 said:

    CatMan said:

    In January it was reported there was a 4 year wait in the English & Welsh courts.

    https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/jan/10/covid-leading-to-four-year-waits-for-england-and-wales-court-trials

    And the Tories are going to solve this by cutting their funding (again)
    That really is a false economy.

    Getting and keeping a criminal off the streets prevents multiple future crimes, and multiple future court cases.
    Absolutely.

    Justice delayed is - all too often - going to end up with justice not happening at all.
    Are there statutes of limitations on some crimes which may mean such a delay effectively stops any trial taking place ?
    I think the big issue is that witnesses move or forget or can be made to look like they're not sure. My guess is that there is a strong correlation between time to trial and conviction rates.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 2,992

    Corbyn calls for “absolute solidarity” with Claudia Webbe.

    https://twitter.com/adamlangleben/status/1448360094450819075

    You've deliberately written this as if Corbyn said this today, whereas it was several weeks ago. He clearly wouldn't repeat it now. I'm not defending Corbyn - he was a twit to say it then - but she hadn't been found guilty then, and she was pleading innocence.
    Based on what Corbyn said in that clip from September, he might as well have said it today. Words to the effect that "Here is a list of our far left comrades attacked by the evil media, Claudia has joined the list, so she's just the latest victim of a witchhunt by the media and we stand by her in solidarity." Don't fool yourself that the evidence of today's proceedings could possibly change such a prejudiced view, although he might now add the evil capitalist courts to the list of those perpetrating the witchhunt.

    He's so much more than just a "twit".
    Yes, he is - sorry if "twit" wasn't strong enough for you. But I believe in fair play; the video clip was not from today. Anyway, Corbyn is yesterday's man, as are his fairly small coterie of followers. I choose to ignore him and them, just as I did twenty-odd years ago when Corbyn and his coterie were on the backbenches and Blair was storming to victory.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,629
    No, he has a point.

    Think of all the Covid vaccines that could be bought for the price of a "space tourist" ticket.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,592
    edited October 13
    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    First, like Labour in Leicester East

    Yes, it is hard to see any result,other than an easy labour hold here.

    Should a by election happen.
    Any opportunities for the Gorgeous George roadshow to split the Labour vote here?
    I did a quick "back of the envelope" calculation for Batley & Spen. Basically, looking at the proportion of Muslims in a constituency and Galloway's vote share.

    Basically, it looked like he tops out (pretty consistently) at about 60% of the Muslim share for the constituency. Leicester East is 48% Asian, but 33% of that is Hindu and only 15% is Muslim. This would put GG's potential at around 10% of the vote, or maybe a little lower.

    Could this be enough to cause Labour to lose the seat?

    I doubt it.

    My guess - fwiw - is that the December 2019 result was a bad one for the Labour Party at least in part because all the students had returned home.

    I therefore think that the real Labour majority is slightly undercooked here.
    Hang on. Does 48% Asian, 33% Hindu equal 15% Muslim?
    Are there no Sikhs? Let alone Jains, Buddhists, Chinese, etc.
    Yes. Sikhs in reasonable numbers. Also a significant community of Asian Christians, mostly from Kerala and Goa. Vaz included.
  • TazTaz Posts: 2,475
    MaxPB said:

    FPT:

    This truly is a leftie government, Sunak is a pound shop Gordon Brown.

    Pension savers face risk of higher fees as Sunak seeks billions for ‘levelling up’

    Ministers are looking to relax rules shielding tens of millions of UK retirement savers from high charges as they step up efforts to funnel pension fund cash into the government’s “levelling up” agenda.

    Officials are working on proposals to dilute the 0.75 per cent ceiling on annual management fees, which was put in place in 2016 to protect workers auto-enrolled into workplace pensions from having their savings eroded by high charges.

    Chancellor Rishi Sunak is looking at ways to tap billions of pounds of pension fund cash to invest in long-term projects, including infrastructure schemes, renewable energy projects and innovative tech firms, to help deliver on UK prime minister Boris Johnson’s pledge to spread economic growth across the UK.


    https://www.ft.com/content/a8cad0f1-fd85-40ed-aa19-e71728f10825

    How does diluting (i.e. presumably, increasing or removing) the ceiling on annual management fees increase tax revenues by any worthwhile amount?
    The biggest asset manager for auto enrolled pensions is NEST. That's the state owned pensions asset management company. Uncapping fees will mean millions of people will be hit with higher charges by NEST and these will be people on the lower end of the income scale too because employers that use NEST are more likely to be smaller companies and companies with lower paid people.

    Honestly, it's just another example of the Tory party kicking working people and a reason we need a strong opposition that will stand up for working age people and start to tax over 65s properly.
    Nest already make a rather high initial charge of 1.8% on all new contributions.

    Yes, it is the Tories kicking the working man and woman. Once their money is in the pension it is pretty much there until they retire..

    One thing that Always concerns me with these pension pots is they tie your money up,for decades and you cannot access it yet the govt can chop,and change the rules to,suit.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,770

    No, he has a point.

    Think of all the Covid vaccines that could be bought for the price of a "space tourist" ticket.
    Whataboutery/drunk driver's fallacy.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 64,406
    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    rcs1000 said:

    CatMan said:

    In January it was reported there was a 4 year wait in the English & Welsh courts.

    https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/jan/10/covid-leading-to-four-year-waits-for-england-and-wales-court-trials

    And the Tories are going to solve this by cutting their funding (again)
    That really is a false economy.

    Getting and keeping a criminal off the streets prevents multiple future crimes, and multiple future court cases.
    Absolutely.

    Justice delayed is - all too often - going to end up with justice not happening at all.
    Are there statutes of limitations on some crimes which may mean such a delay effectively stops any trial taking place ?
    I think the big issue is that witnesses move or forget or can be made to look like they're not sure. My guess is that there is a strong correlation between time to trial and conviction rates.
    Not to forget that a criminal out on the streets while awaiting conviction is free to keep committing crimes for that time.

    Its only once they're securely behind bars that there is a disruption to their criminal behaviour.

    Its not like someone who committed a crime and was nicked then is out on bail for four years is going to be an angel in all that time. 🤦‍♂️
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,629
    IshmaelZ said:

    No, he has a point.

    Think of all the Covid vaccines that could be bought for the price of a "space tourist" ticket.
    Whataboutery/drunk driver's fallacy.
    Why whataboutery?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,562
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    FPT:

    This truly is a leftie government, Sunak is a pound shop Gordon Brown.

    Pension savers face risk of higher fees as Sunak seeks billions for ‘levelling up’

    Ministers are looking to relax rules shielding tens of millions of UK retirement savers from high charges as they step up efforts to funnel pension fund cash into the government’s “levelling up” agenda.

    Officials are working on proposals to dilute the 0.75 per cent ceiling on annual management fees, which was put in place in 2016 to protect workers auto-enrolled into workplace pensions from having their savings eroded by high charges.

    Chancellor Rishi Sunak is looking at ways to tap billions of pounds of pension fund cash to invest in long-term projects, including infrastructure schemes, renewable energy projects and innovative tech firms, to help deliver on UK prime minister Boris Johnson’s pledge to spread economic growth across the UK.


    https://www.ft.com/content/a8cad0f1-fd85-40ed-aa19-e71728f10825

    How does diluting (i.e. presumably, increasing or removing) the ceiling on annual management fees increase tax revenues by any worthwhile amount?
    0.75% for the coke snorting broker, 0.5% for the Gov't :p ?
    Ah hem.

    0.75% goes to the fund manager. A sober individual like I used to be.

    The coke snorting broker* gets paid from the commissions that the fund pays when it buys or sells shares. In the old days, that was as much 0.25%, and brokers drove 911s. Now it's more likely to be 0.04 or 0.05%, and brokers bitch about how much better paid fund managers now are.

    * Not *all* brokers snort cocaine. Some of them prefer Adderell.
    The issue here is that the fund manager for millions of people's pensions is the state via NEST. Raising the cap on fees is simply another tax raising measure on working age people.
    Good point.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 64,406

    IshmaelZ said:

    No, he has a point.

    Think of all the Covid vaccines that could be bought for the price of a "space tourist" ticket.
    Whataboutery/drunk driver's fallacy.
    Why whataboutery?
    Because its private money.

    There was no reason it would have gone on vaccines had it not gone on space tourism. It could have gone on women or drink, with the rest wasted, to quote George Best.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,562

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    rcs1000 said:

    CatMan said:

    In January it was reported there was a 4 year wait in the English & Welsh courts.

    https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/jan/10/covid-leading-to-four-year-waits-for-england-and-wales-court-trials

    And the Tories are going to solve this by cutting their funding (again)
    That really is a false economy.

    Getting and keeping a criminal off the streets prevents multiple future crimes, and multiple future court cases.
    Absolutely.

    Justice delayed is - all too often - going to end up with justice not happening at all.
    Are there statutes of limitations on some crimes which may mean such a delay effectively stops any trial taking place ?
    I think the big issue is that witnesses move or forget or can be made to look like they're not sure. My guess is that there is a strong correlation between time to trial and conviction rates.
    Not to forget that a criminal out on the streets while awaiting conviction is free to keep committing crimes for that time.

    Its only once they're securely behind bars that there is a disruption to their criminal behaviour.

    Its not like someone who committed a crime and was nicked then is out on bail for four years is going to be an angel in all that time. 🤦‍♂️
    It also has to be enormously dispiriting for the police and the victims too.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,629

    IshmaelZ said:

    No, he has a point.

    Think of all the Covid vaccines that could be bought for the price of a "space tourist" ticket.
    Whataboutery/drunk driver's fallacy.
    Why whataboutery?
    Because its private money.

    There was no reason it would have gone on vaccines had it not gone on space tourism. It could have gone on women or drink, with the rest wasted, to quote George Best.
    They could have made a donation.
  • TazTaz Posts: 2,475
    edited October 13

    IshmaelZ said:

    No, he has a point.

    Think of all the Covid vaccines that could be bought for the price of a "space tourist" ticket.
    Whataboutery/drunk driver's fallacy.
    Why whataboutery?
    Because its private money.

    There was no reason it would have gone on vaccines had it not gone on space tourism. It could have gone on women or drink, with the rest wasted, to quote George Best.
    They could have made a donation.
    They did 😀 after the first trip. $200 million

    https://www.geekwire.com/2021/jeff-bezos-gives-away-200m-thanks-amazon-customers-blue-origins-big-launch/
  • isamisam Posts: 38,524
    edited October 13
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    First, like Labour in Leicester East

    Yes, it is hard to see any result,other than an easy labour hold here.

    Should a by election happen.
    Any opportunities for the Gorgeous George roadshow to split the Labour vote here?
    I did a quick "back of the envelope" calculation for Batley & Spen. Basically, looking at the proportion of Muslims in a constituency and Galloway's vote share.

    Basically, it looked like he tops out (pretty consistently) at about 60% of the Muslim share for the constituency. Leicester East is 48% Asian, but 33% of that is Hindu and only 15% is Muslim. This would put GG's potential at around 10% of the vote, or maybe a little lower.

    Could this be enough to cause Labour to lose the seat?

    I doubt it.

    My guess - fwiw - is that the December 2019 result was a bad one for the Labour Party at least in part because all the students had returned home.

    I therefore think that the real Labour majority is slightly undercooked here.
    Hang on. Does 48% Asian, 33% Hindu equal 15% Muslim?
    Are there no Sikhs? Let alone Jains, Buddhists, Chinese, etc.
    Yes. Sikhs in reasonable numbers. Also a significant community of Asian Christians, mostly from Kerala and Goa. Vaz included.
    Is it fair to say that if Labour put up a Hindu candidate, they can’t really lose?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 31,859
    Taz said:

    MaxPB said:

    FPT:

    This truly is a leftie government, Sunak is a pound shop Gordon Brown.

    Pension savers face risk of higher fees as Sunak seeks billions for ‘levelling up’

    Ministers are looking to relax rules shielding tens of millions of UK retirement savers from high charges as they step up efforts to funnel pension fund cash into the government’s “levelling up” agenda.

    Officials are working on proposals to dilute the 0.75 per cent ceiling on annual management fees, which was put in place in 2016 to protect workers auto-enrolled into workplace pensions from having their savings eroded by high charges.

    Chancellor Rishi Sunak is looking at ways to tap billions of pounds of pension fund cash to invest in long-term projects, including infrastructure schemes, renewable energy projects and innovative tech firms, to help deliver on UK prime minister Boris Johnson’s pledge to spread economic growth across the UK.


    https://www.ft.com/content/a8cad0f1-fd85-40ed-aa19-e71728f10825

    How does diluting (i.e. presumably, increasing or removing) the ceiling on annual management fees increase tax revenues by any worthwhile amount?
    The biggest asset manager for auto enrolled pensions is NEST. That's the state owned pensions asset management company. Uncapping fees will mean millions of people will be hit with higher charges by NEST and these will be people on the lower end of the income scale too because employers that use NEST are more likely to be smaller companies and companies with lower paid people.

    Honestly, it's just another example of the Tory party kicking working people and a reason we need a strong opposition that will stand up for working age people and start to tax over 65s properly.
    Nest already make a rather high initial charge of 1.8% on all new contributions.

    Yes, it is the Tories kicking the working man and woman. Once their money is in the pension it is pretty much there until they retire..

    One thing that Always concerns me with these pension pots is they tie your money up,for decades and you cannot access it yet the govt can chop,and change the rules to,suit.
    Nest is a massive rip off compared to a proper pensions asset manager, it's for lazy companies and management who just want to fulfill the minimum requirement of having a pension scheme.

    It should never have existed and companies should have been forced to pick a proper asset manager. It would have avoided the government seeing pensions assets under its management as a potential source of jam today which is what has happened. The worst part is that people who have Nest pensions are the most likely to be low income and part time employees.

    The idea is actually quite disgusting because once again wealthy pensioners are all in the private sector so are in the open market which means fees won't rise much at all but the unsavvy working poor will be lumbered with a huge fees increase that will erode a huge amount of their potential accruals and hurt their future retirement incomes. All of it to fund NHS and social care for the old people who won't pay anything extra.

    The Tory party isn't fit for purpose.
  • MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    FPT:

    This truly is a leftie government, Sunak is a pound shop Gordon Brown.

    Pension savers face risk of higher fees as Sunak seeks billions for ‘levelling up’

    Ministers are looking to relax rules shielding tens of millions of UK retirement savers from high charges as they step up efforts to funnel pension fund cash into the government’s “levelling up” agenda.

    Officials are working on proposals to dilute the 0.75 per cent ceiling on annual management fees, which was put in place in 2016 to protect workers auto-enrolled into workplace pensions from having their savings eroded by high charges.

    Chancellor Rishi Sunak is looking at ways to tap billions of pounds of pension fund cash to invest in long-term projects, including infrastructure schemes, renewable energy projects and innovative tech firms, to help deliver on UK prime minister Boris Johnson’s pledge to spread economic growth across the UK.


    https://www.ft.com/content/a8cad0f1-fd85-40ed-aa19-e71728f10825

    How does diluting (i.e. presumably, increasing or removing) the ceiling on annual management fees increase tax revenues by any worthwhile amount?
    0.75% for the coke snorting broker, 0.5% for the Gov't :p ?
    Ah hem.

    0.75% goes to the fund manager. A sober individual like I used to be.

    The coke snorting broker* gets paid from the commissions that the fund pays when it buys or sells shares. In the old days, that was as much 0.25%, and brokers drove 911s. Now it's more likely to be 0.04 or 0.05%, and brokers bitch about how much better paid fund managers now are.

    * Not *all* brokers snort cocaine. Some of them prefer Adderell.
    The issue here is that the fund manager for millions of people's pensions is the state via NEST. Raising the cap on fees is simply another tax raising measure on working age people.
    And a pretty sneaky one at that, if the aim is to skim money from pension contributions.

    Not quite snaffling coins from the church collection plate, but well on the way in terms of tawdriness. Is this really the level of scrabbling around the government is reduced to?

    I really, really hope I've misunderstood this. Please tell me I've misunderstood.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,478
    rcs1000 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    First, like Labour in Leicester East

    Yes, it is hard to see any result,other than an easy labour hold here.

    Should a by election happen.
    Any opportunities for the Gorgeous George roadshow to split the Labour vote here?
    I did a quick "back of the envelope" calculation for Batley & Spen. Basically, looking at the proportion of Muslims in a constituency and Galloway's vote share.

    Basically, it looked like he tops out (pretty consistently) at about 60% of the Muslim share for the constituency. Leicester East is 48% Asian, but 33% of that is Hindu and only 15% is Muslim. This would put GG's potential at around 10% of the vote, or maybe a little lower.

    Could this be enough to cause Labour to lose the seat?

    I doubt it.

    My guess - fwiw - is that the December 2019 result was a bad one for the Labour Party at least in part because all the students had returned home.

    I therefore think that the real Labour majority is slightly undercooked here.
    Hang on. Does 48% Asian, 33% Hindu equal 15% Muslim?
    Are there no Sikhs? Let alone Jains, Buddhists, Chinese, etc.
    Fair point.
    Perhaps @Foxy could add to this. Leicester
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    First, like Labour in Leicester East

    Yes, it is hard to see any result,other than an easy labour hold here.

    Should a by election happen.
    Any opportunities for the Gorgeous George roadshow to split the Labour vote here?
    I did a quick "back of the envelope" calculation for Batley & Spen. Basically, looking at the proportion of Muslims in a constituency and Galloway's vote share.

    Basically, it looked like he tops out (pretty consistently) at about 60% of the Muslim share for the constituency. Leicester East is 48% Asian, but 33% of that is Hindu and only 15% is Muslim. This would put GG's potential at around 10% of the vote, or maybe a little lower.

    Could this be enough to cause Labour to lose the seat?

    I doubt it.

    My guess - fwiw - is that the December 2019 result was a bad one for the Labour Party at least in part because all the students had returned home.

    I therefore think that the real Labour majority is slightly undercooked here.
    Hang on. Does 48% Asian, 33% Hindu equal 15% Muslim?
    Are there no Sikhs? Let alone Jains, Buddhists, Chinese, etc.
    Yes. Sikhs in reasonable numbers. Also a significant community of Asian Christians, mostly from Kerala and Goa. Vaz included.
    Cheers for that. So Leicester East is not a particularly Muslim part of the city then? So less than ideal Galloway land?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,592
    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    First, like Labour in Leicester East

    Yes, it is hard to see any result,other than an easy labour hold here.

    Should a by election happen.
    Any opportunities for the Gorgeous George roadshow to split the Labour vote here?
    I did a quick "back of the envelope" calculation for Batley & Spen. Basically, looking at the proportion of Muslims in a constituency and Galloway's vote share.

    Basically, it looked like he tops out (pretty consistently) at about 60% of the Muslim share for the constituency. Leicester East is 48% Asian, but 33% of that is Hindu and only 15% is Muslim. This would put GG's potential at around 10% of the vote, or maybe a little lower.

    Could this be enough to cause Labour to lose the seat?

    I doubt it.

    My guess - fwiw - is that the December 2019 result was a bad one for the Labour Party at least in part because all the students had returned home.

    I therefore think that the real Labour majority is slightly undercooked here.
    Hang on. Does 48% Asian, 33% Hindu equal 15% Muslim?
    Are there no Sikhs? Let alone Jains, Buddhists, Chinese, etc.
    Yes. Sikhs in reasonable numbers. Also a significant community of Asian Christians, mostly from Kerala and Goa. Vaz included.
    Is it fair to say that if Labour put up a Hindu candidate, they can’t really lose?
    I wouldn't go quite that far, as both Tories and Lib Dem are likely to do so too, but if it was a candidate with good local roots and track record then it would be a good start. Parachuting in an outsider wouldn't go down well, again.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,478
    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    First, like Labour in Leicester East

    Yes, it is hard to see any result,other than an easy labour hold here.

    Should a by election happen.
    Any opportunities for the Gorgeous George roadshow to split the Labour vote here?
    I did a quick "back of the envelope" calculation for Batley & Spen. Basically, looking at the proportion of Muslims in a constituency and Galloway's vote share.

    Basically, it looked like he tops out (pretty consistently) at about 60% of the Muslim share for the constituency. Leicester East is 48% Asian, but 33% of that is Hindu and only 15% is Muslim. This would put GG's potential at around 10% of the vote, or maybe a little lower.

    Could this be enough to cause Labour to lose the seat?

    I doubt it.

    My guess - fwiw - is that the December 2019 result was a bad one for the Labour Party at least in part because all the students had returned home.

    I therefore think that the real Labour majority is slightly undercooked here.
    Hang on. Does 48% Asian, 33% Hindu equal 15% Muslim?
    Are there no Sikhs? Let alone Jains, Buddhists, Chinese, etc.
    Yes. Sikhs in reasonable numbers. Also a significant community of Asian Christians, mostly from Kerala and Goa. Vaz included.
    Is it fair to say that if Labour put up a Hindu candidate, they can’t really lose?
    As long as his name is Dave from the looks of last time.
    Perhaps a Dave Dave to be on the safe side.
  • TazTaz Posts: 2,475
    MaxPB said:

    Taz said:

    MaxPB said:

    FPT:

    This truly is a leftie government, Sunak is a pound shop Gordon Brown.

    Pension savers face risk of higher fees as Sunak seeks billions for ‘levelling up’

    Ministers are looking to relax rules shielding tens of millions of UK retirement savers from high charges as they step up efforts to funnel pension fund cash into the government’s “levelling up” agenda.

    Officials are working on proposals to dilute the 0.75 per cent ceiling on annual management fees, which was put in place in 2016 to protect workers auto-enrolled into workplace pensions from having their savings eroded by high charges.

    Chancellor Rishi Sunak is looking at ways to tap billions of pounds of pension fund cash to invest in long-term projects, including infrastructure schemes, renewable energy projects and innovative tech firms, to help deliver on UK prime minister Boris Johnson’s pledge to spread economic growth across the UK.


    https://www.ft.com/content/a8cad0f1-fd85-40ed-aa19-e71728f10825

    How does diluting (i.e. presumably, increasing or removing) the ceiling on annual management fees increase tax revenues by any worthwhile amount?
    The biggest asset manager for auto enrolled pensions is NEST. That's the state owned pensions asset management company. Uncapping fees will mean millions of people will be hit with higher charges by NEST and these will be people on the lower end of the income scale too because employers that use NEST are more likely to be smaller companies and companies with lower paid people.

    Honestly, it's just another example of the Tory party kicking working people and a reason we need a strong opposition that will stand up for working age people and start to tax over 65s properly.
    Nest already make a rather high initial charge of 1.8% on all new contributions.

    Yes, it is the Tories kicking the working man and woman. Once their money is in the pension it is pretty much there until they retire..

    One thing that Always concerns me with these pension pots is they tie your money up,for decades and you cannot access it yet the govt can chop,and change the rules to,suit.
    Nest is a massive rip off compared to a proper pensions asset manager, it's for lazy companies and management who just want to fulfill the minimum requirement of having a pension scheme.

    It should never have existed and companies should have been forced to pick a proper asset manager. It would have avoided the government seeing pensions assets under its management as a potential source of jam today which is what has happened. The worst part is that people who have Nest pensions are the most likely to be low income and part time employees.

    The idea is actually quite disgusting because once again wealthy pensioners are all in the private sector so are in the open market which means fees won't rise much at all but the unsavvy working poor will be lumbered with a huge fees increase that will erode a huge amount of their potential accruals and hurt their future retirement incomes. All of it to fund NHS and social care for the old people who won't pay anything extra.

    The Tory party isn't fit for purpose.
    One of my former employers switched away from a pretty decent pension, if you put in 6% they put in 9% and it was a low cost mixed assets fund with Aviva, to NEST when it was launched for all new employees simply to save money.and meet an obligation.

    None of our political parties are fit for purpose. It’s a rather depressing scenario.

    I think Nest, Like stakeholder pensions. Was well intentioned but the execution utterly,shambolic.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 20,875
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    FPT:

    This truly is a leftie government, Sunak is a pound shop Gordon Brown.

    Pension savers face risk of higher fees as Sunak seeks billions for ‘levelling up’

    Ministers are looking to relax rules shielding tens of millions of UK retirement savers from high charges as they step up efforts to funnel pension fund cash into the government’s “levelling up” agenda.

    Officials are working on proposals to dilute the 0.75 per cent ceiling on annual management fees, which was put in place in 2016 to protect workers auto-enrolled into workplace pensions from having their savings eroded by high charges.

    Chancellor Rishi Sunak is looking at ways to tap billions of pounds of pension fund cash to invest in long-term projects, including infrastructure schemes, renewable energy projects and innovative tech firms, to help deliver on UK prime minister Boris Johnson’s pledge to spread economic growth across the UK.


    https://www.ft.com/content/a8cad0f1-fd85-40ed-aa19-e71728f10825

    How does diluting (i.e. presumably, increasing or removing) the ceiling on annual management fees increase tax revenues by any worthwhile amount?
    0.75% for the coke snorting broker, 0.5% for the Gov't :p ?
    Ah hem.

    0.75% goes to the fund manager. A sober individual like I used to be.

    The coke snorting broker* gets paid from the commissions that the fund pays when it buys or sells shares. In the old days, that was as much 0.25%, and brokers drove 911s. Now it's more likely to be 0.04 or 0.05%, and brokers bitch about how much better paid fund managers now are.

    * Not *all* brokers snort cocaine. Some of them prefer Adderell.
    The issue here is that the fund manager for millions of people's pensions is the state via NEST. Raising the cap on fees is simply another tax raising measure on working age people.
    Good point.
    Great. Another hit on Daughter's business and her employees.

    Bastards!

    None of the 3 main parties are fit for purpose. All of them useless, greedy, corrupt, inept, cowardly and lying.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,478
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    rcs1000 said:

    CatMan said:

    In January it was reported there was a 4 year wait in the English & Welsh courts.

    https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/jan/10/covid-leading-to-four-year-waits-for-england-and-wales-court-trials

    And the Tories are going to solve this by cutting their funding (again)
    That really is a false economy.

    Getting and keeping a criminal off the streets prevents multiple future crimes, and multiple future court cases.
    Absolutely.

    Justice delayed is - all too often - going to end up with justice not happening at all.
    Are there statutes of limitations on some crimes which may mean such a delay effectively stops any trial taking place ?
    I think the big issue is that witnesses move or forget or can be made to look like they're not sure. My guess is that there is a strong correlation between time to trial and conviction rates.
    Not to forget that a criminal out on the streets while awaiting conviction is free to keep committing crimes for that time.

    Its only once they're securely behind bars that there is a disruption to their criminal behaviour.

    Its not like someone who committed a crime and was nicked then is out on bail for four years is going to be an angel in all that time. 🤦‍♂️
    It also has to be enormously dispiriting for the police and the victims too.
    Perhaps the most disturbing aspect of this is access to counselling for victims of crime. This has traditionally been frowned upon by the legal profession. We know rapid talking therapy is as important in some cases as rapid treatment of physical injury. New guidance has been published here, and is a huge step forward, but nowhere near enough.

    https://www.cps.gov.uk/publication/draft-guidance-pre-trial-therapy

    However, even with this improvement, there are no more counsellors or therapists than there are lawyers, courts or HGV drivers.
    Victims need the case over and done with and the offender punished before real healing can begin. We are creating even more damaged folk with long-term PTSD and trauma.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 41,526
    Cyclefree said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    FPT:

    This truly is a leftie government, Sunak is a pound shop Gordon Brown.

    Pension savers face risk of higher fees as Sunak seeks billions for ‘levelling up’

    Ministers are looking to relax rules shielding tens of millions of UK retirement savers from high charges as they step up efforts to funnel pension fund cash into the government’s “levelling up” agenda.

    Officials are working on proposals to dilute the 0.75 per cent ceiling on annual management fees, which was put in place in 2016 to protect workers auto-enrolled into workplace pensions from having their savings eroded by high charges.

    Chancellor Rishi Sunak is looking at ways to tap billions of pounds of pension fund cash to invest in long-term projects, including infrastructure schemes, renewable energy projects and innovative tech firms, to help deliver on UK prime minister Boris Johnson’s pledge to spread economic growth across the UK.


    https://www.ft.com/content/a8cad0f1-fd85-40ed-aa19-e71728f10825

    How does diluting (i.e. presumably, increasing or removing) the ceiling on annual management fees increase tax revenues by any worthwhile amount?
    0.75% for the coke snorting broker, 0.5% for the Gov't :p ?
    Ah hem.

    0.75% goes to the fund manager. A sober individual like I used to be.

    The coke snorting broker* gets paid from the commissions that the fund pays when it buys or sells shares. In the old days, that was as much 0.25%, and brokers drove 911s. Now it's more likely to be 0.04 or 0.05%, and brokers bitch about how much better paid fund managers now are.

    * Not *all* brokers snort cocaine. Some of them prefer Adderell.
    The issue here is that the fund manager for millions of people's pensions is the state via NEST. Raising the cap on fees is simply another tax raising measure on working age people.
    Good point.
    Great. Another hit on Daughter's business and her employees.

    Bastards!

    None of the 3 main parties are fit for purpose. All of them useless, greedy, corrupt, inept, cowardly and lying.
    Any of the minor parties not in your firing line?
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    FPT:

    This truly is a leftie government, Sunak is a pound shop Gordon Brown.

    Pension savers face risk of higher fees as Sunak seeks billions for ‘levelling up’

    Ministers are looking to relax rules shielding tens of millions of UK retirement savers from high charges as they step up efforts to funnel pension fund cash into the government’s “levelling up” agenda.

    Officials are working on proposals to dilute the 0.75 per cent ceiling on annual management fees, which was put in place in 2016 to protect workers auto-enrolled into workplace pensions from having their savings eroded by high charges.

    Chancellor Rishi Sunak is looking at ways to tap billions of pounds of pension fund cash to invest in long-term projects, including infrastructure schemes, renewable energy projects and innovative tech firms, to help deliver on UK prime minister Boris Johnson’s pledge to spread economic growth across the UK.


    https://www.ft.com/content/a8cad0f1-fd85-40ed-aa19-e71728f10825

    How does diluting (i.e. presumably, increasing or removing) the ceiling on annual management fees increase tax revenues by any worthwhile amount?
    0.75% for the coke snorting broker, 0.5% for the Gov't :p ?
    Ah hem.

    0.75% goes to the fund manager. A sober individual like I used to be.

    The coke snorting broker* gets paid from the commissions that the fund pays when it buys or sells shares. In the old days, that was as much 0.25%, and brokers drove 911s. Now it's more likely to be 0.04 or 0.05%, and brokers bitch about how much better paid fund managers now are.

    * Not *all* brokers snort cocaine. Some of them prefer Adderell.
    The issue here is that the fund manager for millions of people's pensions is the state via NEST. Raising the cap on fees is simply another tax raising measure on working age people.
    And a pretty sneaky one at that, if the aim is to skim money from pension contributions.

    Not quite snaffling coins from the church collection plate, but well on the way in terms of tawdriness. Is this really the level of scrabbling around the government is reduced to?

    I really, really hope I've misunderstood this. Please tell me I've misunderstood.
    You haven't. I work in asset management and it's extremely transparent what the government is aiming to do here, they really are robbing the poorest working age people and destroying any chance of them having a proper private retirement income by making the potential for accruals significantly lower.

    I honestly don't think anyone in the Labour party has the wit or wherewithal to explain this measure that will be sold as a way of taxing profits from extra large pension pots.
    That's the political genius, if I've got it right; a way of getting more money for the government now that nobody will notice for decades. And even then, nobody will notice their poorer pensions or link them to the decisions of long-departed politicians.

    Blooming Sunak, as shabby as the rest of them. And he has such a nice smile; possibly the nicest since John Major (pre-Black Wednesday version).
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 31,859
    Cyclefree said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    FPT:

    This truly is a leftie government, Sunak is a pound shop Gordon Brown.

    Pension savers face risk of higher fees as Sunak seeks billions for ‘levelling up’

    Ministers are looking to relax rules shielding tens of millions of UK retirement savers from high charges as they step up efforts to funnel pension fund cash into the government’s “levelling up” agenda.

    Officials are working on proposals to dilute the 0.75 per cent ceiling on annual management fees, which was put in place in 2016 to protect workers auto-enrolled into workplace pensions from having their savings eroded by high charges.

    Chancellor Rishi Sunak is looking at ways to tap billions of pounds of pension fund cash to invest in long-term projects, including infrastructure schemes, renewable energy projects and innovative tech firms, to help deliver on UK prime minister Boris Johnson’s pledge to spread economic growth across the UK.


    https://www.ft.com/content/a8cad0f1-fd85-40ed-aa19-e71728f10825

    How does diluting (i.e. presumably, increasing or removing) the ceiling on annual management fees increase tax revenues by any worthwhile amount?
    0.75% for the coke snorting broker, 0.5% for the Gov't :p ?
    Ah hem.

    0.75% goes to the fund manager. A sober individual like I used to be.

    The coke snorting broker* gets paid from the commissions that the fund pays when it buys or sells shares. In the old days, that was as much 0.25%, and brokers drove 911s. Now it's more likely to be 0.04 or 0.05%, and brokers bitch about how much better paid fund managers now are.

    * Not *all* brokers snort cocaine. Some of them prefer Adderell.
    The issue here is that the fund manager for millions of people's pensions is the state via NEST. Raising the cap on fees is simply another tax raising measure on working age people.
    Good point.
    Great. Another hit on Daughter's business and her employees.

    Bastards!

    None of the 3 main parties are fit for purpose. All of them useless, greedy, corrupt, inept, cowardly and lying.
    This is a hit on the employees, employers will see no increased cost. We're not a pensions provider so I don't have a ready made accruals calculator and I can't say for sure what the exact hit will be but it's going to he big. A working age person with 20-30 years worth of accruals will pay a huge, huge amount more in fees because of this and poorer people with Nest pensions will be handing their money over to the state.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,592
    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    First, like Labour in Leicester East

    Yes, it is hard to see any result,other than an easy labour hold here.

    Should a by election happen.
    Any opportunities for the Gorgeous George roadshow to split the Labour vote here?
    I did a quick "back of the envelope" calculation for Batley & Spen. Basically, looking at the proportion of Muslims in a constituency and Galloway's vote share.

    Basically, it looked like he tops out (pretty consistently) at about 60% of the Muslim share for the constituency. Leicester East is 48% Asian, but 33% of that is Hindu and only 15% is Muslim. This would put GG's potential at around 10% of the vote, or maybe a little lower.

    Could this be enough to cause Labour to lose the seat?

    I doubt it.

    My guess - fwiw - is that the December 2019 result was a bad one for the Labour Party at least in part because all the students had returned home.

    I therefore think that the real Labour majority is slightly undercooked here.
    Hang on. Does 48% Asian, 33% Hindu equal 15% Muslim?
    Are there no Sikhs? Let alone Jains, Buddhists, Chinese, etc.
    Fair point.
    Perhaps @Foxy could add to this. Leicester
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    First, like Labour in Leicester East

    Yes, it is hard to see any result,other than an easy labour hold here.

    Should a by election happen.
    Any opportunities for the Gorgeous George roadshow to split the Labour vote here?
    I did a quick "back of the envelope" calculation for Batley & Spen. Basically, looking at the proportion of Muslims in a constituency and Galloway's vote share.

    Basically, it looked like he tops out (pretty consistently) at about 60% of the Muslim share for the constituency. Leicester East is 48% Asian, but 33% of that is Hindu and only 15% is Muslim. This would put GG's potential at around 10% of the vote, or maybe a little lower.

    Could this be enough to cause Labour to lose the seat?

    I doubt it.

    My guess - fwiw - is that the December 2019 result was a bad one for the Labour Party at least in part because all the students had returned home.

    I therefore think that the real Labour majority is slightly undercooked here.
    Hang on. Does 48% Asian, 33% Hindu equal 15% Muslim?
    Are there no Sikhs? Let alone Jains, Buddhists, Chinese, etc.
    Yes. Sikhs in reasonable numbers. Also a significant community of Asian Christians, mostly from Kerala and Goa. Vaz included.
    Cheers for that. So Leicester East is not a particularly Muslim part of the city then? So less than ideal Galloway land?
    There is a Muslim community too, particularly around Evington, mostly Gujerati and East African, and a fair number of Somalis in the St Margaret's area. Pretty much everyone is represented in Leicester, we have Jain temple, Chinese community, Philippines, Arabs, Kurds, Eritrean, Slovakian Roma, West Indians particularly from Antigua, and of course many others from these Isles and beyond.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,592
    dixiedean said:

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    First, like Labour in Leicester East

    Yes, it is hard to see any result,other than an easy labour hold here.

    Should a by election happen.
    Any opportunities for the Gorgeous George roadshow to split the Labour vote here?
    I did a quick "back of the envelope" calculation for Batley & Spen. Basically, looking at the proportion of Muslims in a constituency and Galloway's vote share.

    Basically, it looked like he tops out (pretty consistently) at about 60% of the Muslim share for the constituency. Leicester East is 48% Asian, but 33% of that is Hindu and only 15% is Muslim. This would put GG's potential at around 10% of the vote, or maybe a little lower.

    Could this be enough to cause Labour to lose the seat?

    I doubt it.

    My guess - fwiw - is that the December 2019 result was a bad one for the Labour Party at least in part because all the students had returned home.

    I therefore think that the real Labour majority is slightly undercooked here.
    Hang on. Does 48% Asian, 33% Hindu equal 15% Muslim?
    Are there no Sikhs? Let alone Jains, Buddhists, Chinese, etc.
    Yes. Sikhs in reasonable numbers. Also a significant community of Asian Christians, mostly from Kerala and Goa. Vaz included.
    Is it fair to say that if Labour put up a Hindu candidate, they can’t really lose?
    As long as his name is Dave from the looks of last time.
    Perhaps a Dave Dave to be on the safe side.
    Both Daves were well known local activists for their parties, and I think that mattered more than anything.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 31,859

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    FPT:

    This truly is a leftie government, Sunak is a pound shop Gordon Brown.

    Pension savers face risk of higher fees as Sunak seeks billions for ‘levelling up’

    Ministers are looking to relax rules shielding tens of millions of UK retirement savers from high charges as they step up efforts to funnel pension fund cash into the government’s “levelling up” agenda.

    Officials are working on proposals to dilute the 0.75 per cent ceiling on annual management fees, which was put in place in 2016 to protect workers auto-enrolled into workplace pensions from having their savings eroded by high charges.

    Chancellor Rishi Sunak is looking at ways to tap billions of pounds of pension fund cash to invest in long-term projects, including infrastructure schemes, renewable energy projects and innovative tech firms, to help deliver on UK prime minister Boris Johnson’s pledge to spread economic growth across the UK.


    https://www.ft.com/content/a8cad0f1-fd85-40ed-aa19-e71728f10825

    How does diluting (i.e. presumably, increasing or removing) the ceiling on annual management fees increase tax revenues by any worthwhile amount?
    0.75% for the coke snorting broker, 0.5% for the Gov't :p ?
    Ah hem.

    0.75% goes to the fund manager. A sober individual like I used to be.

    The coke snorting broker* gets paid from the commissions that the fund pays when it buys or sells shares. In the old days, that was as much 0.25%, and brokers drove 911s. Now it's more likely to be 0.04 or 0.05%, and brokers bitch about how much better paid fund managers now are.

    * Not *all* brokers snort cocaine. Some of them prefer Adderell.
    The issue here is that the fund manager for millions of people's pensions is the state via NEST. Raising the cap on fees is simply another tax raising measure on working age people.
    And a pretty sneaky one at that, if the aim is to skim money from pension contributions.

    Not quite snaffling coins from the church collection plate, but well on the way in terms of tawdriness. Is this really the level of scrabbling around the government is reduced to?

    I really, really hope I've misunderstood this. Please tell me I've misunderstood.
    You haven't. I work in asset management and it's extremely transparent what the government is aiming to do here, they really are robbing the poorest working age people and destroying any chance of them having a proper private retirement income by making the potential for accruals significantly lower.

    I honestly don't think anyone in the Labour party has the wit or wherewithal to explain this measure that will be sold as a way of taxing profits from extra large pension pots.
    That's the political genius, if I've got it right; a way of getting more money for the government now that nobody will notice for decades. And even then, nobody will notice their poorer pensions or link them to the decisions of long-departed politicians.

    Blooming Sunak, as shabby as the rest of them. And he has such a nice smile; possibly the nicest since John Major (pre-Black Wednesday version).
    It's a copy of what Brown did when he removed dividend tax relief for pension funds. Overnight millions of working age people saw their future income in retirement utterly destroyed. Brown shafted everyone aged between 30 and 50 back then, Sunak is going to do the same now.

    Sometimes I wonder whether moving to Zurich is the right thing to do, then the supposedly low tax party comes up with a genuinely evil policy like this which will destroy pension incomes for the worst off and I know that my wife is right about where the UK is heading.
  • TazTaz Posts: 2,475
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    FPT:

    This truly is a leftie government, Sunak is a pound shop Gordon Brown.

    Pension savers face risk of higher fees as Sunak seeks billions for ‘levelling up’

    Ministers are looking to relax rules shielding tens of millions of UK retirement savers from high charges as they step up efforts to funnel pension fund cash into the government’s “levelling up” agenda.

    Officials are working on proposals to dilute the 0.75 per cent ceiling on annual management fees, which was put in place in 2016 to protect workers auto-enrolled into workplace pensions from having their savings eroded by high charges.

    Chancellor Rishi Sunak is looking at ways to tap billions of pounds of pension fund cash to invest in long-term projects, including infrastructure schemes, renewable energy projects and innovative tech firms, to help deliver on UK prime minister Boris Johnson’s pledge to spread economic growth across the UK.


    https://www.ft.com/content/a8cad0f1-fd85-40ed-aa19-e71728f10825

    How does diluting (i.e. presumably, increasing or removing) the ceiling on annual management fees increase tax revenues by any worthwhile amount?
    0.75% for the coke snorting broker, 0.5% for the Gov't :p ?
    Ah hem.

    0.75% goes to the fund manager. A sober individual like I used to be.

    The coke snorting broker* gets paid from the commissions that the fund pays when it buys or sells shares. In the old days, that was as much 0.25%, and brokers drove 911s. Now it's more likely to be 0.04 or 0.05%, and brokers bitch about how much better paid fund managers now are.

    * Not *all* brokers snort cocaine. Some of them prefer Adderell.
    The issue here is that the fund manager for millions of people's pensions is the state via NEST. Raising the cap on fees is simply another tax raising measure on working age people.
    And a pretty sneaky one at that, if the aim is to skim money from pension contributions.

    Not quite snaffling coins from the church collection plate, but well on the way in terms of tawdriness. Is this really the level of scrabbling around the government is reduced to?

    I really, really hope I've misunderstood this. Please tell me I've misunderstood.
    You haven't. I work in asset management and it's extremely transparent what the government is aiming to do here, they really are robbing the poorest working age people and destroying any chance of them having a proper private retirement income by making the potential for accruals significantly lower.

    I honestly don't think anyone in the Labour party has the wit or wherewithal to explain this measure that will be sold as a way of taxing profits from extra large pension pots.
    That's the political genius, if I've got it right; a way of getting more money for the government now that nobody will notice for decades. And even then, nobody will notice their poorer pensions or link them to the decisions of long-departed politicians.

    Blooming Sunak, as shabby as the rest of them. And he has such a nice smile; possibly the nicest since John Major (pre-Black Wednesday version).
    It's a copy of what Brown did when he removed dividend tax relief for pension funds. Overnight millions of working age people saw their future income in retirement utterly destroyed. Brown shafted everyone aged between 30 and 50 back then, Sunak is going to do the same now.

    Sometimes I wonder whether moving to Zurich is the right thing to do, then the supposedly low tax party comes up with a genuinely evil policy like this which will destroy pension incomes for the worst off and I know that my wife is right about where the UK is heading.

    Brown was warned about the consequences of his actions too, at the time, by civil servants but still ploughed ahead. Of course many people didn’t realise at the time but the final salary pension in the private sector,pretty much dropped off a cliff after that.

    The man is an idiot.
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