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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Ipsos-MORI finds CON and LAB level pegging – but with Boris

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  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    edited August 2014

    I have a keyboard and a word processor does that mean I can write novels that will sell as well as yours?

    How many businesses still have typing pools?

    Ah, now, Mr. Hopkins, you open up a new question. Has the requirement for everyone to be their own typist led to a more productive business environment?

    That question was last tackled, as far as I am aware, quite a few years ago now, back in the 1990s. The results published in the economist was that the advent of the PC had been a large retrograde step in terms of office productivity. That was before, in most organisations, email had reached every desk and long before the internet was widely available.

    I rather suspect that in the public sector if work-time use of the internet was properly regulated to those functions/searches that are actually needed the time saved would enable at least a 10% reduction in personnel. Further, removing the "CC" function from email clients used in the public sector would hugely increase productivity.

  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    I don't wish to be rude but I'm not quite sure you grasp some of the concepts here:

    Do you have any evidence for this? It just that at my daughter's graduation a couple of years ago the professional photographers were completely inundated with proud parents only too willing to hand over exorbitant sums of money for proper snaps.The queue was huge.

    Do people trust their wedding to an amateur? not that I've seen.

    The Machines taking the place of humans meme has been around for decades. They were predicting it in the 1970s.

    And yet more people are employed in the UK than ever. And look at the 1930s, when everything had to be done by matchstick men a la Lowry, and there were few women in the workforce at all.

    Massive unemployment.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,690
    SeanT said:

    But that's exactly where you are wrong. Having a hi-tech megapixel digital camera on your phone DOES make you, potentially, a good photographer - one who can sell photos. e.g. I have personally sold photos, taken my me, with an iPhone, to travel magazines - one of those photos even made the front cover of a travel supplement.

    And I am NOT a trained photographer, I am certainly not a "pro". I just happened to be in the right place at the right time with a tool which can take a million pics an hour and which does all the focusing and whatnot, for me; in those circs anyone - including me - can be a "good" photographer - which is why photography as a paying career is dying very fast.


    I don't wish to be rude but I'm not quite sure you grasp some of the concepts here: exactly how and why computers and machines are taking over: it's because they can do this stuff as well as most of us now, OR they can make the average person as good as a pro - which renders the pro redundant.

    Re photos: it's not just that they make amateurs better. It's just that a pro gets 1-in-10 shots that are great, and it's 1-in-1,000 for an amateur.

    The proliferation of camera phones, DSLRs, etc., means that amateur photographers are producing 100,000x more images than pros. And inside all the dross, are a lot of very, very good photos.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,654
    Anorak said:

    On the language learning thing, the point of doing it isn't to become a translator, is it? Even if the computers can't do it you'd lose out to people who grew up bilingual. Surely the point is to be able to talk to people without intermediate translation? I'd have thought talking to Japanese people through a translator would be a fairly pointless experience, as they'd presumably go into the same weird "pretend to be a diplomat and avoid saying anything untoward" mode they use when they're speaking English.

    Out of curiosity, how fluent are you, and how much did actual, spoken, idiomatic Japenese differ from 'language course' Japanese?
    I'm fine in my domain (database systems, pricing models, privacy policies, parallel anarchist financial systems, that kind of thing) but don't know all kinds of obvious-to-children things in other areas. I can't really comment on language course Japanese as I haven't been on language courses, apart from test prep.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited August 2014
    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    But that's exactly where you are wrong. Having a hi-tech megapixel digital camera on your phone DOES make you, potentially, a good photographer - one who can sell photos. e.g. I have personally sold photos, taken my me, with an iPhone, to travel magazines - one of those photos even made the front cover of a travel supplement.

    And I am NOT a trained photographer, I am certainly not a "pro". I just happened to be in the right place at the right time with a tool which can take a million pics an hour and which does all the focusing and whatnot, for me; in those circs anyone - including me - can be a "good" photographer - which is why photography as a paying career is dying very fast.


    I don't wish to be rude but I'm not quite sure you grasp some of the concepts here: exactly how and why computers and machines are taking over: it's because they can do this stuff as well as most of us now, OR they can make the average person as good as a pro - which renders the pro redundant.

    Re photos: it's not just that they make amateurs better. It's just that a pro gets 1-in-10 shots that are great, and it's 1-in-1,000 for an amateur.

    The proliferation of camera phones, DSLRs, etc., means that amateur photographers are producing 100,000x more images than pros. And inside all the dross, are a lot of very, very good photos.
    What about a pro with a cameraphone?!

    I am inclined to agree with Sean here though..

    I wouldnt be surprised if in 20 years time there were best selling novels generated/written by a computer... No idea is completely original after all, just feed in every book ever written and outline a summary

    Everything will be done by robots and we humans can concentrate on peace, love and being nice!
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    Anorak said:

    On the language learning thing, the point of doing it isn't to become a translator, is it? Even if the computers can't do it you'd lose out to people who grew up bilingual. Surely the point is to be able to talk to people without intermediate translation? I'd have thought talking to Japanese people through a translator would be a fairly pointless experience, as they'd presumably go into the same weird "pretend to be a diplomat and avoid saying anything untoward" mode they use when they're speaking English.

    Out of curiosity, how fluent are you, and how much did actual, spoken, idiomatic Japenese differ from 'language course' Japanese?
    I'm fine in my domain (database systems, pricing models, privacy policies, parallel anarchist financial systems, that kind of thing) but don't know all kinds of obvious-to-children things in other areas. I can't really comment on language course Japanese as I haven't been on language courses, apart from test prep.
    That's some pretty arcane Japanese :)
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    edited August 2014
    "I don't wish to be rude ...."

    SeanT said that, to me. I think if I went this evening, I could die happy.

    Mr. T., your points are taken. I am not sure I agree with them all but I am a daft old coot after all and so cannot be expected to understand the world you live in.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    isam said:

    Everything will be done by robots and we humans can concentrate on peace, love and being nice!

    or canvassing for UKIP, if you prefer ;-)
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited August 2014

    One of my best friends is Peter Dench. He is recognised as one of the best photographers in Britain, he has won World Press Awards, &c

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Dench

    A few years ago things got so bad he had to take a temporary job frying eggs in Capital Radio canteen.

    You'd have thought he could have got a job at Snappy Snaps. Would surely pay better than frying eggs.
  • HughHugh Posts: 955
    RodCrosby said:

    Applying the L&N model to IPSOS we have:-

    (Central forecast)

    Con vote lead 8.5%
    Con seat lead 76 seats

    (10000 Monte Carlo simulations)

    Chance of Tory vote lead: 100.0%
    Chance of a Tory seat lead: 99.5%

    Chance of a Labour majority: 0.0%

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/80scartoons/5947202715/
  • Anorak said:

    SeanT said:

    One of my best friends is Peter Dench. He is recognised as one of the best photographers in Britain, he has won World Press Awards, &c

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Dench

    A few years ago things got so bad he had to take a temporary job frying eggs in Capital Radio canteen. Now he scrapes by through lecturing, running a gallery, writing ABOUT photographer, etc.

    You'd have thought he could have got a job at Snappy Snaps. Would surely pay better than frying eggs.
    Do Snappy Snaps still exist? We lost our local branch years ago.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    Anorak said:

    SeanT said:

    One of my best friends is Peter Dench. He is recognised as one of the best photographers in Britain, he has won World Press Awards, &c

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Dench

    A few years ago things got so bad he had to take a temporary job frying eggs in Capital Radio canteen. Now he scrapes by through lecturing, running a gallery, writing ABOUT photographer, etc.

    You'd have thought he could have got a job at Snappy Snaps. Would surely pay better than frying eggs.
    Do Snappy Snaps still exist? We lost our local branch years ago.
    http://www.snappysnaps.co.uk/store-finder/index.php
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    The Machines are coming for us all. Run for the hills.

    Hmmn.....I guess photographers used to operating in war zones would turn their noses up at weddings.

    Then again, some of the weddings I've been to.....
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    Everything will be done by robots and we humans can concentrate on peace, love and being nice!

    or canvassing for UKIP, if you prefer ;-)
    Same thing!
  • Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    SeanT said:

    One of my best friends is Peter Dench. He is recognised as one of the best photographers in Britain, he has won World Press Awards, &c

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Dench

    A few years ago things got so bad he had to take a temporary job frying eggs in Capital Radio canteen. Now he scrapes by through lecturing, running a gallery, writing ABOUT photographer, etc.

    You'd have thought he could have got a job at Snappy Snaps. Would surely pay better than frying eggs.
    Do Snappy Snaps still exist? We lost our local branch years ago.
    http://www.snappysnaps.co.uk/store-finder/index.php
    Thanks, but nearest branches to Ilford are Romford and Walthamstow, each over 4 miles away!
  • On topic - Ipsos-Mori must be an outlier :)
  • Rexel56Rexel56 Posts: 807
    isam said:

    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    But that's exactly where you are wrong. Having a hi-tech megapixel digital camera on your phone DOES make you, potentially, a good photographer - one who can sell photos. e.g. I have personally sold photos, taken my me, with an iPhone, to travel magazines - one of those photos even made the front cover of a travel supplement.

    And I am NOT a trained photographer, I am certainly not a "pro". I just happened to be in the right place at the right time with a tool which can take a million pics an hour and which does all the focusing and whatnot, for me; in those circs anyone - including me - can be a "good" photographer - which is why photography as a paying career is dying very fast.


    I don't wish to be rude but I'm not quite sure you grasp some of the concepts here: exactly how and why computers and machines are taking over: it's because they can do this stuff as well as most of us now, OR they can make the average person as good as a pro - which renders the pro redundant.

    Re photos: it's not just that they make amateurs better. It's just that a pro gets 1-in-10 shots that are great, and it's 1-in-1,000 for an amateur.

    The proliferation of camera phones, DSLRs, etc., means that amateur photographers are producing 100,000x more images than pros. And inside all the dross, are a lot of very, very good photos.

    Everything will be done by robots and we humans can concentrate on peace, love and being nice!
    Well, except to the Romanian neighbours of course, no votes in being nice to them...
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited August 2014

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    SeanT said:

    One of my best friends is Peter Dench. He is recognised as one of the best photographers in Britain, he has won World Press Awards, &c

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Dench

    A few years ago things got so bad he had to take a temporary job frying eggs in Capital Radio canteen. Now he scrapes by through lecturing, running a gallery, writing ABOUT photographer, etc.

    You'd have thought he could have got a job at Snappy Snaps. Would surely pay better than frying eggs.
    Do Snappy Snaps still exist? We lost our local branch years ago.
    http://www.snappysnaps.co.uk/store-finder/index.php
    Thanks, but nearest branches to Ilford are Romford and Walthamstow, each over 4 miles away!
    http://www.tfl.gov.uk/buses
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,121
    RodCrosby said:

    Applying the L&N model to IPSOS we have:-

    (Central forecast)

    Con vote lead 8.5%
    Con seat lead 76 seats

    (10000 Monte Carlo simulations)

    Chance of Tory vote lead: 100.0%
    Chance of a Tory seat lead: 99.5%

    Chance of a Hung Parliament: 38.8%
    Chance of a Tory majority: 61.2%
    Chance of a Labour majority: 0.0%

    The Tory position seems to be gradually strengthening...

    Yeeeeesssss!

    We've won!

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,769
    GIN1138 said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Applying the L&N model to IPSOS we have:-

    (Central forecast)

    Con vote lead 8.5%
    Con seat lead 76 seats

    (10000 Monte Carlo simulations)

    Chance of Tory vote lead: 100.0%
    Chance of a Tory seat lead: 99.5%

    Chance of a Hung Parliament: 38.8%
    Chance of a Tory majority: 61.2%
    Chance of a Labour majority: 0.0%

    The Tory position seems to be gradually strengthening...

    Yeeeeesssss!

    We've won!

    We're Allllllllllllllllllrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrraiiiiiiiiiiiiiiggggggggggggggggggggggghtttt

    We're Allllllllllllllllllrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrraiiiiiiiiiiiiiiggggggggggggggggggggggghtttt

    We're Allllllllllllllllllrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrraiiiiiiiiiiiiiiggggggggggggggggggggggghtttt
  • GIN1138 said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Applying the L&N model to IPSOS we have:-

    (Central forecast)

    Con vote lead 8.5%
    Con seat lead 76 seats

    (10000 Monte Carlo simulations)

    Chance of Tory vote lead: 100.0%
    Chance of a Tory seat lead: 99.5%

    Chance of a Hung Parliament: 38.8%
    Chance of a Tory majority: 61.2%
    Chance of a Labour majority: 0.0%

    The Tory position seems to be gradually strengthening...

    Yeeeeesssss!

    We've won!

    Hang on GIN, it's only 2 days ago since you admitted that you'd more or less completely given up on the Tories!
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @JohnRentoul: Salmond’s likely #indyref defeat & Boris's return to national politics both strengthen Cameron: my @Independent col http://t.co/613P7i7xLr
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,139
    I think some people on here are rather over-estimating the power of current technology. Some of the things being posited will require a step-change in both our knowledge and technology.

    Until then, as a programmer, I am your God Mwuhahahaha!

    But one thing is true: knowledge and skills (such as photography) are becoming commoditised. when I was ten I pretty much taught myself to program, and those skills have served me well ever since. A hundred or more years ago, you pretty much had to be one of the few percent who could attend university to learn. Knowledge was jealously guarded by gatekeepers (even more so when Latin was a prerequisite for learning).

    Nowadays, with the Internet and especially various sites (e.g. the excellent Khan Academy), you could attempt to teach yourself anything. A child with the will and interest could look into many areas and find one they have an aptitude for, and teach themselves up to a required standard with little real-life adult interaction.

    Even better, they could find a teaching style that suits them. We all probably experienced teachers who were good, but whose style just did not connect with us, even if it did with others. Now we can just find a site which explains a subject in the way we like and captures us.

    In addition, equipment is becoming cheaper and more accessible. Computer, cameras, word processors, transport, communications are all much better than they were twenty years ago.

    I honestly don't think it's ever been a more exciting time to be a child. The opportunities seem boundless. All they need is the will.

    https://www.khanacademy.org/
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,531
    edited August 2014
    I loved seeing "Back to the Future II" on TV again at the weekend - it's set in 2015, and we're supposed to have flying cars and "hoverboards" by then!
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited August 2014
    Rexel56 said:

    isam said:

    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    But that's exactly where you are wrong. Having a hi-tech megapixel digital camera on your phone DOES make you, potentially, a good photographer - one who can sell photos. e.g. I have personally sold photos, taken my me, with an iPhone, to travel magazines - one of those photos even made the front cover of a travel supplement.

    And I am NOT a trained photographer, I am certainly not a "pro". I just happened to be in the right place at the right time with a tool which can take a million pics an hour and which does all the focusing and whatnot, for me; in those circs anyone - including me - can be a "good" photographer - which is why photography as a paying career is dying very fast.


    I don't wish to be rude but I'm not quite sure you grasp some of the concepts here: exactly how and why computers and machines are taking over: it's because they can do this stuff as well as most of us now, OR they can make the average person as good as a pro - which renders the pro redundant.

    Re photos: it's not just that they make amateurs better. It's just that a pro gets 1-in-10 shots that are great, and it's 1-in-1,000 for an amateur.

    The proliferation of camera phones, DSLRs, etc., means that amateur photographers are producing 100,000x more images than pros. And inside all the dross, are a lot of very, very good photos.

    Everything will be done by robots and we humans can concentrate on peace, love and being nice!
    Well, except to the Romanian neighbours of course, no votes in being nice to them...
    No need to be pathetic. You misunderstood something, & were proved wrong by the opinion polls, best to move on.. or speak to Farage personally, rather than bang on at me
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited August 2014
    I have to say, Dan Hodges' last two articles have been truly excellent. Only one touched on Miliband, and that was also unrelentingly - and fairly - negative about Cameron and Clegg.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100283018/atrocity-porn-and-the-online-campaigners-who-use-dead-children-to-push-political-points
    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100283104/in-iraq-and-israel-british-foreign-policy-has-died
  • Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    SeanT said:

    One of my best friends is Peter Dench. He is recognised as one of the best photographers in Britain, he has won World Press Awards, &c

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Dench

    A few years ago things got so bad he had to take a temporary job frying eggs in Capital Radio canteen. Now he scrapes by through lecturing, running a gallery, writing ABOUT photographer, etc.

    You'd have thought he could have got a job at Snappy Snaps. Would surely pay better than frying eggs.
    Do Snappy Snaps still exist? We lost our local branch years ago.
    http://www.snappysnaps.co.uk/store-finder/index.php
    Thanks, but nearest branches to Ilford are Romford and Walthamstow, each over 4 miles away!
    http://www.tfl.gov.uk/buses
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_camera :P
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    SeanT said:

    One of my best friends is Peter Dench. He is recognised as one of the best photographers in Britain, he has won World Press Awards, &c

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Dench

    A few years ago things got so bad he had to take a temporary job frying eggs in Capital Radio canteen. Now he scrapes by through lecturing, running a gallery, writing ABOUT photographer, etc.

    You'd have thought he could have got a job at Snappy Snaps. Would surely pay better than frying eggs.
    Do Snappy Snaps still exist? We lost our local branch years ago.
    http://www.snappysnaps.co.uk/store-finder/index.php
    Thanks, but nearest branches to Ilford are Romford and Walthamstow, each over 4 miles away!
    http://www.tfl.gov.uk/buses
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_camera :P
    You want to spend a small fortune on printer ink, good luck to you. [although, to be honest, the only time I've used Snappy Snaps in the last two years has been for visa/passport photos]
  • Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    SeanT said:

    One of my best friends is Peter Dench. He is recognised as one of the best photographers in Britain, he has won World Press Awards, &c

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Dench

    A few years ago things got so bad he had to take a temporary job frying eggs in Capital Radio canteen. Now he scrapes by through lecturing, running a gallery, writing ABOUT photographer, etc.

    You'd have thought he could have got a job at Snappy Snaps. Would surely pay better than frying eggs.
    Do Snappy Snaps still exist? We lost our local branch years ago.
    http://www.snappysnaps.co.uk/store-finder/index.php
    Thanks, but nearest branches to Ilford are Romford and Walthamstow, each over 4 miles away!
    http://www.tfl.gov.uk/buses
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_camera :P
    You want to spend a small fortune on printer ink, good luck to you. [although, to be honest, the only time I've used Snappy Snaps in the last two years has been for visa/passport photos]
    I normally upload mine to Wiki or Twitter or sometimes FB. Haven't printed out photos in years :)
  • Pulpstar said:

    GIN1138 said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Applying the L&N model to IPSOS we have:-

    (Central forecast)

    Con vote lead 8.5%
    Con seat lead 76 seats

    (10000 Monte Carlo simulations)

    Chance of Tory vote lead: 100.0%
    Chance of a Tory seat lead: 99.5%

    Chance of a Hung Parliament: 38.8%
    Chance of a Tory majority: 61.2%
    Chance of a Labour majority: 0.0%

    The Tory position seems to be gradually strengthening...

    Yeeeeesssss!

    We've won!

    We're Allllllllllllllllllrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrraiiiiiiiiiiiiiiggggggggggggggggggggggghtttt

    We're Allllllllllllllllllrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrraiiiiiiiiiiiiiiggggggggggggggggggggggghtttt

    We're Allllllllllllllllllrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrraiiiiiiiiiiiiiiggggggggggggggggggggggghtttt
    "Calm down, dear!"
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    edited August 2014
    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    SeanT said:

    One of my best friends is Peter Dench. He is recognised as one of the best photographers in Britain, he has won World Press Awards, &c

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Dench

    A few years ago things got so bad he had to take a temporary job frying eggs in Capital Radio canteen. Now he scrapes by through lecturing, running a gallery, writing ABOUT photographer, etc.

    You'd have thought he could have got a job at Snappy Snaps. Would surely pay better than frying eggs.
    Do Snappy Snaps still exist? We lost our local branch years ago.
    http://www.snappysnaps.co.uk/store-finder/index.php
    Thanks, but nearest branches to Ilford are Romford and Walthamstow, each over 4 miles away!
    http://www.tfl.gov.uk/buses
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_camera :P
    You want to spend a small fortune on printer ink, good luck to you. [although, to be honest, the only time I've used Snappy Snaps in the last two years has been for visa/passport photos]
    Take digital photos, then upload them to a print service for excellent quality "real" photos, which they post to you.

    http://www.photobox.co.uk/

  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    isam said:

    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    But that's exactly where you are wrong. Having a hi-tech megapixel digital camera on your phone DOES make you, potentially, a good photographer - one who can sell photos. e.g. I have personally sold photos, taken my me, with an iPhone, to travel magazines - one of those photos even made the front cover of a travel supplement.

    And I am NOT a trained photographer, I am certainly not a "pro". I just happened to be in the right place at the right time with a tool which can take a million pics an hour and which does all the focusing and whatnot, for me; in those circs anyone - including me - can be a "good" photographer - which is why photography as a paying career is dying very fast.


    I don't wish to be rude but I'm not quite sure you grasp some of the concepts here: exactly how and why computers and machines are taking over: it's because they can do this stuff as well as most of us now, OR they can make the average person as good as a pro - which renders the pro redundant.

    Re photos: it's not just that they make amateurs better. It's just that a pro gets 1-in-10 shots that are great, and it's 1-in-1,000 for an amateur.

    The proliferation of camera phones, DSLRs, etc., means that amateur photographers are producing 100,000x more images than pros. And inside all the dross, are a lot of very, very good photos.


    Everything will be done by robots and we humans can concentrate on peace, love and being nice!
    That's a very accurate synopsis of Oscar Wilde's "The Soul of Man under Socialism". We are a good 75 years beyond the stage where we were mechanised enough (in his view) for the effect to kick in. Still waiting...

  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited August 2014

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    SeanT said:

    One of my best friends is Peter Dench. He is recognised as one of the best photographers in Britain, he has won World Press Awards, &c

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Dench

    A few years ago things got so bad he had to take a temporary job frying eggs in Capital Radio canteen. Now he scrapes by through lecturing, running a gallery, writing ABOUT photographer, etc.

    You'd have thought he could have got a job at Snappy Snaps. Would surely pay better than frying eggs.
    Do Snappy Snaps still exist? We lost our local branch years ago.
    http://www.snappysnaps.co.uk/store-finder/index.php
    Thanks, but nearest branches to Ilford are Romford and Walthamstow, each over 4 miles away!
    http://www.tfl.gov.uk/buses
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_camera :P
    You want to spend a small fortune on printer ink, good luck to you. [although, to be honest, the only time I've used Snappy Snaps in the last two years has been for visa/passport photos]
    Take digital photos, then upload them to a print service for excellent quality "real" photos, which they post to you.

    http://www.photobox.co.uk/

    I know, hence the passport photo comment. I was just teasing Sunil and his the-world-ends-when-you-leave-Ilford comment :)

    I can second your photobox recommendation - they're good and suprisingly cheap.
  • Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    SeanT said:

    One of my best friends is Peter Dench. He is recognised as one of the best photographers in Britain, he has won World Press Awards, &c

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Dench

    A few years ago things got so bad he had to take a temporary job frying eggs in Capital Radio canteen. Now he scrapes by through lecturing, running a gallery, writing ABOUT photographer, etc.

    You'd have thought he could have got a job at Snappy Snaps. Would surely pay better than frying eggs.
    Do Snappy Snaps still exist? We lost our local branch years ago.
    http://www.snappysnaps.co.uk/store-finder/index.php
    Thanks, but nearest branches to Ilford are Romford and Walthamstow, each over 4 miles away!
    http://www.tfl.gov.uk/buses
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_camera :P
    You want to spend a small fortune on printer ink, good luck to you. [although, to be honest, the only time I've used Snappy Snaps in the last two years has been for visa/passport photos]
    Take digital photos, then upload them to a print service for excellent quality "real" photos, which they post to you.

    http://www.photobox.co.uk/

    I know, hence the passport photo comment. I was just teasing Sunil and his the-world-ends-when-you-leave-Ilford comment :)
    Well I have visited every railway station in the London Oystercard network, and have traversed all National Rail routes within 50 miles of London, as well as on the West Midlands Day Ranger map. Even been as far as north as Leuchars station in Scotland :)
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited August 2014

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    SeanT said:

    One of my best friends is Peter Dench. He is recognised as one of the best photographers in Britain, he has won World Press Awards, &c

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Dench

    A few years ago things got so bad he had to take a temporary job frying eggs in Capital Radio canteen. Now he scrapes by through lecturing, running a gallery, writing ABOUT photographer, etc.

    You'd have thought he could have got a job at Snappy Snaps. Would surely pay better than frying eggs.
    Do Snappy Snaps still exist? We lost our local branch years ago.
    http://www.snappysnaps.co.uk/store-finder/index.php
    Thanks, but nearest branches to Ilford are Romford and Walthamstow, each over 4 miles away!
    http://www.tfl.gov.uk/buses
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_camera :P
    You want to spend a small fortune on printer ink, good luck to you. [although, to be honest, the only time I've used Snappy Snaps in the last two years has been for visa/passport photos]
    Take digital photos, then upload them to a print service for excellent quality "real" photos, which they post to you.

    http://www.photobox.co.uk/

    I know, hence the passport photo comment. I was just teasing Sunil and his the-world-ends-when-you-leave-Ilford comment :)
    Well I have visited every railway station in the London Oystercard network, and have traversed all National Rail routes within 50 miles of London, as well as on the West Midlands Day Ranger map. Even been as far as north as Leuchars station in Scotland :)
    I was just teasing Sunil and his the-world-ends-when-you-leave-Ilford-or-a-railway-station comment :)

    [btw, where do you stand on the "train station" versus "railway station" debate? I find the former to be ugly and the sign of an uneducated (and probably diseased) mind]
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Anorak said:

    I have to say, Dan Hodges' last two articles have been truly excellent. Only one touched on Miliband, and that was also unrelentingly - and fairly - negative about Cameron and Clegg.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100283018/atrocity-porn-and-the-online-campaigners-who-use-dead-children-to-push-political-points
    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100283104/in-iraq-and-israel-british-foreign-policy-has-died

    He is right about Cameron - needs to man up.
  • Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    SeanT said:

    One of my best friends is Peter Dench. He is recognised as one of the best photographers in Britain, he has won World Press Awards, &c

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Dench

    A few years ago things got so bad he had to take a temporary job frying eggs in Capital Radio canteen. Now he scrapes by through lecturing, running a gallery, writing ABOUT photographer, etc.

    You'd have thought he could have got a job at Snappy Snaps. Would surely pay better than frying eggs.
    Do Snappy Snaps still exist? We lost our local branch years ago.
    http://www.snappysnaps.co.uk/store-finder/index.php
    Thanks, but nearest branches to Ilford are Romford and Walthamstow, each over 4 miles away!
    http://www.tfl.gov.uk/buses
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_camera :P
    You want to spend a small fortune on printer ink, good luck to you. [although, to be honest, the only time I've used Snappy Snaps in the last two years has been for visa/passport photos]
    Take digital photos, then upload them to a print service for excellent quality "real" photos, which they post to you.

    http://www.photobox.co.uk/

    I know, hence the passport photo comment. I was just teasing Sunil and his the-world-ends-when-you-leave-Ilford comment :)
    Well I have visited every railway station in the London Oystercard network, and have traversed all National Rail routes within 50 miles of London, as well as on the West Midlands Day Ranger map. Even been as far as north as Leuchars station in Scotland :)
    I was just teasing Sunil and his the-world-ends-when-you-leave-Ilford-or-a-railway-station comment :)

    [btw, where do you stand on the "train station" versus "railway station" debate? I find the former to be ugly and the sign of an uneducated (and probably diseased) mind]
    I favour "railway station" personally.
  • SeanT said:

    I loved seeing "Back to the Future II" on TV again at the weekend - it's set in 2015, and we're supposed to have flying cars and "hoverboards" by then!

    I remember watching Star Trek as a boy and marvelling at the "communicator". Now we have communicators just like Spock, and these communicators are also computers, calculators, global maps, navigators, cameras, mini TVs, mini cinemas, digital book readers, and they contain entire music collections, and they have apps to make us sleep.
    According to the Star Trek timeline, the world should have been taken over by genetically altered "superman" Khan Noonien Singh by 1996.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Ishmael_X said:

    isam said:

    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    But that's exactly where you are wrong. Having a hi-tech megapixel digital camera on your phone DOES make you, potentially, a good photographer - one who can sell photos. e.g. I have personally sold photos, taken my me, with an iPhone, to travel magazines - one of those photos even made the front cover of a travel supplement.

    And I am NOT a trained photographer, I am certainly not a "pro". I just happened to be in the right place at the right time with a tool which can take a million pics an hour and which does all the focusing and whatnot, for me; in those circs anyone - including me - can be a "good" photographer - which is why photography as a paying career is dying very fast.


    I don't wish to be rude but I'm not quite sure you grasp some of the concepts here: exactly how and why computers and machines are taking over: it's because they can do this stuff as well as most of us now, OR they can make the average person as good as a pro - which renders the pro redundant.

    Re photos: it's not just that they make amateurs better. It's just that a pro gets 1-in-10 shots that are great, and it's 1-in-1,000 for an amateur.

    The proliferation of camera phones, DSLRs, etc., means that amateur photographers are producing 100,000x more images than pros. And inside all the dross, are a lot of very, very good photos.


    Everything will be done by robots and we humans can concentrate on peace, love and being nice!
    That's a very accurate synopsis of Oscar Wilde's "The Soul of Man under Socialism". We are a good 75 years beyond the stage where we were mechanised enough (in his view) for the effect to kick in. Still waiting...

    Yeah it was how my uni lecturers described communism

    When I said why does everyone who tried it hate it they said it was the "wrong kind" of socialism

    Basically it doesn't work.. social hierarchies of apes tell you that
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    I remember watching Star Trek as a boy and marvelling at the "communicator".

    I like to go the other way, imagining what the great people of the past would make of the present.

    What would Newton make of modern science?

    What would Shakespeare make of modern productions of his work?

    What would Da Vinci make of Salvador Dali?

    What would Mozart make of Jazz?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited August 2014
    Lennon said:

    AndyJS said:

    GIN1138 said:

    hucks67 said:

    Will The Greens start to overake the Lib Dems in polls ? They have been even with them a few times.

    I think it's unlikely in a general election, but they did in the Euro's...

    If they only select 300-400 candidates there's no way they can overtake the LDs in votes. With around 35 weeks to go they've selected 34.
    How many did they have standing last time around?
    335. It looks unlikely at present they'll drastically increase that number next year.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    AndyJS said:

    Lennon said:

    AndyJS said:

    GIN1138 said:

    hucks67 said:

    Will The Greens start to overake the Lib Dems in polls ? They have been even with them a few times.

    I think it's unlikely in a general election, but they did in the Euro's...

    If they only select 300-400 candidates there's no way they can overtake the LDs in votes. With around 35 weeks to go they've selected 34.
    How many did they have standing last time around?
    335. It looks unlikely at present they'll drastically increase that number next year.
    I would expect solid progress (far more members and it is at local level that members are needed to decide to stand and fund the deposits) than in 2010. But nowhere near enough to make me worry about my bet with TSE on Greens outpolling the LDs.

  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,770
    AndyJS said:

    Lennon said:

    AndyJS said:

    GIN1138 said:

    hucks67 said:

    Will The Greens start to overake the Lib Dems in polls ? They have been even with them a few times.

    I think it's unlikely in a general election, but they did in the Euro's...

    If they only select 300-400 candidates there's no way they can overtake the LDs in votes. With around 35 weeks to go they've selected 34.
    How many did they have standing last time around?
    335. It looks unlikely at present they'll drastically increase that number next year.
    Thanks - so 350 would be a reasonable assumption this time around, but 550 perhaps not so. (Although it was interesting to note how successfully they managed to stand purely paper candidates in the London local elections)
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,770
    Neil said:

    AndyJS said:

    Lennon said:

    AndyJS said:

    GIN1138 said:

    hucks67 said:

    Will The Greens start to overake the Lib Dems in polls ? They have been even with them a few times.

    I think it's unlikely in a general election, but they did in the Euro's...

    If they only select 300-400 candidates there's no way they can overtake the LDs in votes. With around 35 weeks to go they've selected 34.
    How many did they have standing last time around?
    335. It looks unlikely at present they'll drastically increase that number next year.
    I would expect solid progress (far more members and it is at local level that members are needed to decide to stand and fund the deposits) than in 2010. But nowhere near enough to make me worry about my bet with TSE on Greens outpolling the LDs.

    If it is public Neil - do you know (roughly) what your current Membership numbers are?
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Lennon said:

    Neil said:

    AndyJS said:

    Lennon said:

    AndyJS said:

    GIN1138 said:

    hucks67 said:

    Will The Greens start to overake the Lib Dems in polls ? They have been even with them a few times.

    I think it's unlikely in a general election, but they did in the Euro's...

    If they only select 300-400 candidates there's no way they can overtake the LDs in votes. With around 35 weeks to go they've selected 34.
    How many did they have standing last time around?
    335. It looks unlikely at present they'll drastically increase that number next year.
    I would expect solid progress (far more members and it is at local level that members are needed to decide to stand and fund the deposits) than in 2010. But nowhere near enough to make me worry about my bet with TSE on Greens outpolling the LDs.

    If it is public Neil - do you know (roughly) what your current Membership numbers are?
    18,000 (in England and Wales) according to this:

    http://hereisthecity.com/en-gb/2014/08/13/the-greens-more-than-a-party-on-the-fringe/

    So presumably 20,000 or so in the UK.
  • HughHugh Posts: 955
    social hierarchies of apes tell you that

    Spot the UKIP supporter. Grunt.
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,770
    Neil said:

    Lennon said:

    Neil said:

    AndyJS said:

    Lennon said:

    AndyJS said:

    GIN1138 said:

    hucks67 said:

    Will The Greens start to overake the Lib Dems in polls ? They have been even with them a few times.

    I think it's unlikely in a general election, but they did in the Euro's...

    If they only select 300-400 candidates there's no way they can overtake the LDs in votes. With around 35 weeks to go they've selected 34.
    How many did they have standing last time around?
    335. It looks unlikely at present they'll drastically increase that number next year.
    I would expect solid progress (far more members and it is at local level that members are needed to decide to stand and fund the deposits) than in 2010. But nowhere near enough to make me worry about my bet with TSE on Greens outpolling the LDs.

    If it is public Neil - do you know (roughly) what your current Membership numbers are?
    18,000 (in England and Wales) according to this:

    http://hereisthecity.com/en-gb/2014/08/13/the-greens-more-than-a-party-on-the-fringe/

    So presumably 20,000 or so in the UK.
    Thanks - that's actually a fair bit larger than I assumed (I had a 10k figure in mind for some reason)
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Hugh
    Not just UKIP
    Our society is based on greed, conflict, and exploitation.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Lennon said:

    Neil said:

    Lennon said:

    Neil said:

    AndyJS said:

    Lennon said:

    AndyJS said:

    GIN1138 said:

    hucks67 said:

    Will The Greens start to overake the Lib Dems in polls ? They have been even with them a few times.

    I think it's unlikely in a general election, but they did in the Euro's...

    If they only select 300-400 candidates there's no way they can overtake the LDs in votes. With around 35 weeks to go they've selected 34.
    How many did they have standing last time around?
    335. It looks unlikely at present they'll drastically increase that number next year.
    I would expect solid progress (far more members and it is at local level that members are needed to decide to stand and fund the deposits) than in 2010. But nowhere near enough to make me worry about my bet with TSE on Greens outpolling the LDs.

    If it is public Neil - do you know (roughly) what your current Membership numbers are?
    18,000 (in England and Wales) according to this:

    http://hereisthecity.com/en-gb/2014/08/13/the-greens-more-than-a-party-on-the-fringe/

    So presumably 20,000 or so in the UK.
    Thanks - that's actually a fair bit larger than I assumed (I had a 10k figure in mind for some reason)
    Actually I didnt read the article fully the first time around and a reliable source on twitter (a former principle speaker) tweeted that England and Wales just passed 16,000 a few months ago so maybe it isnt totally accurate but that's the ballpark. Well up on 2010 and numbers are usually boosted in a GE year too.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    If membership numbers were any guide to electoral success then the National Trust would be in power.

  • HughHugh Posts: 955
    Smarmeron said:

    @Hugh
    Not just UKIP
    Our society is based on greed, conflict, and exploitation.

    Of course it is. By choice of our leaders, not because apes apparently do something.

    Might as well argue that we're all socialist because we're related to ants.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    What;s the historical record of MORI's certain to vote vs. expressing intention to vote?
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,770
    TGOHF said:

    If membership numbers were any guide to electoral success then the National Trust would be in power.

    I don't think that they are any guide to electoral success. I do think that they are a reasonable guide as to the ability to field candidates. (Roughly, x% of members will be willing and able to be candidates - x isn't going to change massively dramatically from 1 period to the next)
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Smarmeron said:

    @Hugh

    Our society is based on greed, conflict, and exploitation.

    Yes - look at Labour and their class war aim of wanting to grab money off people for the crime of having more than them..
  • HughHugh Posts: 955
    Incidentally, not all of our society is based on greed and exploitation, despite the best efforts of those it serves best.

    In fact, we couldn't really function as a society without a large degree of co-operation.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Hugh said:

    Smarmeron said:

    @Hugh
    Not just UKIP
    Our society is based on greed, conflict, and exploitation.

    Of course it is. By choice of our leaders, not because apes apparently do something.

    Might as well argue that we're all socialist because we're related to ants.
    And some posters actually think you're tim!

  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @TGOHF
    Well done. Now go eat your banana and throw excrement at your keeper.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Smarmeron said:

    @TGOHF
    Well done. Now go eat your banana and throw excrement at your keeper.

    The prosecution rests.
  • Weren't we supposed to be having a super summer weather-wise this year? It's raining again here, just as it has every day - or so it seems - for the last two weeks. I am off to Devon on Saturday for a fortnight. We need a bit of sun.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited August 2014
    Hugh said:

    Smarmeron said:

    @Hugh
    Not just UKIP
    Our society is based on greed, conflict, and exploitation.

    Of course it is. By choice of our leaders, not because apes apparently do something.

    Might as well argue that we're all socialist because we're related to ants.
    Not really. Apes, which we are, have innate social hierarchies, like us, which makes it almost impossible for to socialism/communism to succeed

    We aren't related to ants, so I wouldn't make your claim
  • Life_ina_market_townLife_ina_market_town Posts: 2,319
    edited August 2014
    Smarmeron said:

    Our society is based on greed, conflict, and exploitation.

    And has there ever been a society not based on conflict, greed and exploitation? Only in the millenarian fantasies of the medieval chiliastic sects, of the Marxists fanatics and of their fellow travellers.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    The best and funniest tweet of the day:


    Nicholarse ‏@NickMargerrison 4h
    More than half the UK population want TV licence scrapped.

    The other half did media studies and would very much like to work for the BBC.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,207

    Weren't we supposed to be having a super summer weather-wise this year? It's raining again here, just as it has every day - or so it seems - for the last two weeks. I am off to Devon on Saturday for a fortnight. We need a bit of sun.

    SO, happy to confirm it has been bloody lovely today in south Devon. Where you heading?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Fraser Nelson ‏@FraserNelson · 8m
    The other #JobsMiracle caveat - self-employment leads the jobs recovery. pic.twitter.com/i7SuC43Xab

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,163
    TGOHF said:

    The kippers love Boris - must be his Aryan hair.

    Would you care to explain this remark? I don't follow.
  • volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    Isn't it time these small state neo con fanatics started taking responsibility for their own sewage,rather than relying on the evil nanny state?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Those employment stats... work for immigrants and the self employed seem to be on the up, other than that...

    Matthew Goodwin ‏@GoodwinMJ · 50m
    “The total number of workers in Britain from #EU up 11 per cent in just three months” http://bit.ly/1q8Fgjy

    Fraser Nelson ‏@FraserNelson · 8m
    The other #JobsMiracle caveat - self-employment leads the jobs recovery. pic.twitter.com/i7SuC43Xab
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Neil said:

    AndyJS said:

    Lennon said:

    AndyJS said:

    GIN1138 said:

    hucks67 said:

    Will The Greens start to overake the Lib Dems in polls ? They have been even with them a few times.

    I think it's unlikely in a general election, but they did in the Euro's...

    If they only select 300-400 candidates there's no way they can overtake the LDs in votes. With around 35 weeks to go they've selected 34.
    How many did they have standing last time around?
    335. It looks unlikely at present they'll drastically increase that number next year.
    I would expect solid progress (far more members and it is at local level that members are needed to decide to stand and fund the deposits) than in 2010. But nowhere near enough to make me worry about my bet with TSE on Greens outpolling the LDs.

    I reckon you'd only have to have the Greens fielding about 50-100 candidates less than the LDs for it to be impossible for the former to outpoll the latter.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,676
    Dear god there is only one thing worse than 6.30pm Radio 4 "comedy" shows and that is the audience for 6.30pm Radio 4 "comedy" shows.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,163
    SeanT said:

    taffys said:

    I don't wish to be rude but I'm not quite sure you grasp some of the concepts here:

    Do you have any evidence for this? It just that at my daughter's graduation a couple of years ago the professional photographers were completely inundated with proud parents only too willing to hand over exorbitant sums of money for proper snaps.The queue was huge.

    Do people trust their wedding to an amateur? not that I've seen.

    The Machines taking the place of humans meme has been around for decades. They were predicting it in the 1970s.

    And yet more people are employed in the UK than ever. And look at the 1930s, when everything had to be done by matchstick men a la Lowry, and there were few women in the workforce at all.

    Massive unemployment.

    I have more evidence than you could possibly wish to hear. I've been a journalist for 30 years and worked with many dozens of photographers; I can count at least four photographers as very close friends. The career is dying. Most of the ones I know - even some of the best- have retired, switched careers - because they cannot make it pay.

    One of my best friends is Peter Dench. He is recognised as one of the best photographers in Britain, he has won World Press Awards, &c

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Dench

    A few years ago things got so bad he had to take a temporary job frying eggs in Capital Radio canteen. Now he scrapes by through lecturing, running a gallery, writing ABOUT photography, etc.

    And he is one of the BEST in the country. Imagine what the others are doing.

    Yesterday I read that even warzone cameramen are now threatened. Because drones-with-cameras can go into places people can't, and get images no human could, because of the danger and risk; and drones can take aerial shots etc.

    The Machines are coming for us all. Run for the hills.
    This doesn't mean photography is dead; it (seems to) mean that the standard press photographer is less in demand. Like all things, photography is diverging, creating new opportunities at the margins as it does so, but leaving 'do everything' types in trouble.

    My last job was at a 5 star private venue that did a lot of weddings. Wedding photography has become like shooting an editorial spread now, with people spending a fortune on photographers -invariably with a crew of at least 2. Separate from this is another trend -hiring a photobooth to record images of the later evening. Masses more money to be made by specialist photographers there. And not something a machine will ever be able to replicate.

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Neil said:

    Lennon said:

    Neil said:

    AndyJS said:

    Lennon said:

    AndyJS said:

    GIN1138 said:

    hucks67 said:

    Will The Greens start to overake the Lib Dems in polls ? They have been even with them a few times.

    I think it's unlikely in a general election, but they did in the Euro's...

    If they only select 300-400 candidates there's no way they can overtake the LDs in votes. With around 35 weeks to go they've selected 34.
    How many did they have standing last time around?
    335. It looks unlikely at present they'll drastically increase that number next year.
    I would expect solid progress (far more members and it is at local level that members are needed to decide to stand and fund the deposits) than in 2010. But nowhere near enough to make me worry about my bet with TSE on Greens outpolling the LDs.

    If it is public Neil - do you know (roughly) what your current Membership numbers are?
    18,000 (in England and Wales) according to this:

    http://hereisthecity.com/en-gb/2014/08/13/the-greens-more-than-a-party-on-the-fringe/

    So presumably 20,000 or so in the UK.
    It wouldn't surprise me if a large proportion of Green members are concentrated in a relatively small number of seats in central London, Brighton, Norwich, Oxford, etc; more so than the other parties.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited August 2014
    TOPPING said:

    Dear god there is only one thing worse than 6.30pm Radio 4 "comedy" shows and that is the audience for 6.30pm Radio 4 "comedy" shows.

    I spent the first 18 years of my life listening to those shows. Not my choice.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Life_ina_market_town
    We have many great fellow travelers aside from those you name.
    People now have conflicts in their names, which would be ironic if it wasn't so sad.
    The human race seems capable of solving any problem, except it's own.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,676
    MikeK said:

    The best and funniest tweet of the day:


    Nicholarse ‏@NickMargerrison 4h
    More than half the UK population want TV licence scrapped.

    The other half did media studies and would very much like to work for the BBC.

    I'm not saying what they do is a good thing or a bad thing but here's another £20m from the taxpayer that I'm guessing no one is aware of.

    bbc.co.uk/mediaaction/about/finance
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,163
    Hugh said:

    Incidentally, not all of our society is based on greed and exploitation, despite the best efforts of those it serves best.

    In fact, we couldn't really function as a society without a large degree of co-operation.

    I really hate the word greed. More and more, it seems to be lobbed at society at large, as if people shouldn't want to better their situation in life. Invariably it is the billionaire owned corporate media, or the political class who tut tut at 'greed'. Living for money isn't good, but aspiration IS good. It is the lifeblood of society -it is what ensures growth and development and the promise of a decent future.

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,676
    AndyJS said:

    TOPPING said:

    Dear god there is only one thing worse than 6.30pm Radio 4 "comedy" shows and that is the audience for 6.30pm Radio 4 "comedy" shows.

    I spent the first 18 years of my life listening to those shows. Not my choice.
    A cruel and unusual punishment.

    The victim impact statement was I presume damning.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,779
    Evening all :)

    Musing on the employment numbers, I'm reminded of how past economic "booms" in the UK have been undermined by labour shortages and capacity issues. By the mid 80s the south of England effectively had full employment but the shortage of labour led to rising wages which in turn fed through as rising inflation - look at the rising inflation numbers from 1988 to 1990.

    Rising inflation and an overheating economy triggered rises in interest rates which would eventually end up in September 1992 at 15% as the pound was tagged to the Deutsche Mark in the ERM.

    I was also fascinated by the comment in the BoE report that companies are using labour instead of investing through capital and that must be a concern going forward in terms of productivity if all someone has to do is to employ someone rather than check business processes or invest in new equipment.

    We've also got the phenomenal rise in self-employment which some may regard as the vanguard of a new entrepreneurial revolution but alternatively is large numbers of people working long hours for very little on a commission basis.
  • HughHugh Posts: 955
    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    Smarmeron said:

    @Hugh
    Not just UKIP
    Our society is based on greed, conflict, and exploitation.

    Apes, which we are
    Lol. You use anciently related under-evolved members of your tribe as your role model if you want, UKIP Sam.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Musing on the employment numbers, I'm reminded of how past economic "booms" in the UK have been undermined by labour shortages and capacity issues. By the mid 80s the south of England effectively had full employment but the shortage of labour led to rising wages which in turn fed through as rising inflation - look at the rising inflation numbers from 1988 to 1990.

    Rising inflation and an overheating economy triggered rises in interest rates which would eventually end up in September 1992 at 15% as the pound was tagged to the Deutsche Mark in the ERM.

    I was also fascinated by the comment in the BoE report that companies are using labour instead of investing through capital and that must be a concern going forward in terms of productivity if all someone has to do is to employ someone rather than check business processes or invest in new equipment.

    We've also got the phenomenal rise in self-employment which some may regard as the vanguard of a new entrepreneurial revolution but alternatively is large numbers of people working long hours for very little on a commission basis.

    pic.twitter.com/i7SuC43Xab

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,676

    Hugh said:

    Incidentally, not all of our society is based on greed and exploitation, despite the best efforts of those it serves best.

    In fact, we couldn't really function as a society without a large degree of co-operation.

    I really hate the word greed. More and more, it seems to be lobbed at society at large, as if people shouldn't want to better their situation in life. Invariably it is the billionaire owned corporate media, or the political class who tut tut at 'greed'. Living for money isn't good, but aspiration IS good. It is the lifeblood of society -it is what ensures growth and development and the promise of a decent future.

    Agree and it's usually the left: the Labour Party, Guardian, etc for whom the word "greed" is synonymous with "evil".
  • TGOHF said:

    If membership numbers were any guide to electoral success then the National Trust would be in power.

    The Dennis the Menace fan club would be a big bloc as well
  • HughHugh Posts: 955
    isam said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Musing on the employment numbers, I'm reminded of how past economic "booms" in the UK have been undermined by labour shortages and capacity issues. By the mid 80s the south of England effectively had full employment but the shortage of labour led to rising wages which in turn fed through as rising inflation - look at the rising inflation numbers from 1988 to 1990.

    Rising inflation and an overheating economy triggered rises in interest rates which would eventually end up in September 1992 at 15% as the pound was tagged to the Deutsche Mark in the ERM.

    I was also fascinated by the comment in the BoE report that companies are using labour instead of investing through capital and that must be a concern going forward in terms of productivity if all someone has to do is to employ someone rather than check business processes or invest in new equipment.

    We've also got the phenomenal rise in self-employment which some may regard as the vanguard of a new entrepreneurial revolution but alternatively is large numbers of people working long hours for very little on a commission basis.

    pic.twitter.com/i7SuC43Xab

    What's your link about? Apes, which we are, don't have twitter.
  • Life_ina_market_townLife_ina_market_town Posts: 2,319
    edited August 2014
    Smarmeron said:

    @Life_ina_market_town
    We have many great fellow travelers aside from those you name.
    People now have conflicts in their names, which would be ironic if it wasn't so sad.
    The human race seems capable of solving any problem, except it's own.

    The utopia that all conflicts can be reconciled, and that an undifferentiated social unity can be constructed if only people will it enough, has been the cause of millions of deaths in history.
    Hugh said:

    Incidentally, not all of our society is based on greed and exploitation, despite the best efforts of those it serves best.

    In fact, we couldn't really function as a society without a large degree of co-operation.

    You appear to be labouring under the delusion that co-operation where one party exchanges money in return for a service freely rendered by the other is not co-operation at all. Of course, it is socialism that it is the most materialist philosophy of all, because it elevates the distribution of material goods over all other values.
  • HughHugh Posts: 955

    Smarmeron said:

    @Life_ina_market_town
    We have many great fellow travelers aside from those you name.
    People now have conflicts in their names, which would be ironic if it wasn't so sad.
    The human race seems capable of solving any problem, except it's own.

    The utopia that all conflicts can be reconciled, and that an undifferentiated social unity can be constructed if only people will it enough, has been the cause of millions of deaths in history.
    Hugh said:

    Incidentally, not all of our society is based on greed and exploitation, despite the best efforts of those it serves best.

    In fact, we couldn't really function as a society without a large degree of co-operation.

    You appear to be labouring under the delusion that co-operation where one party exchanges money in return for a service freely rendered by the other is not co-operation at all. Of course, it is socialism that it is the most materialist philosophy of all, because it elevates the distribution of material goods over all other values.
    This is getting wierd.

    Do other animals, which we are, have these type of discussions on their internet forums?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Musing on the employment numbers, I'm reminded of how past economic "booms" in the UK have been undermined by labour shortages and capacity issues. By the mid 80s the south of England effectively had full employment but the shortage of labour led to rising wages which in turn fed through as rising inflation - look at the rising inflation numbers from 1988 to 1990.

    Rising inflation and an overheating economy triggered rises in interest rates which would eventually end up in September 1992 at 15% as the pound was tagged to the Deutsche Mark in the ERM.

    I was also fascinated by the comment in the BoE report that companies are using labour instead of investing through capital and that must be a concern going forward in terms of productivity if all someone has to do is to employ someone rather than check business processes or invest in new equipment.

    We've also got the phenomenal rise in self-employment which some may regard as the vanguard of a new entrepreneurial revolution but alternatively is large numbers of people working long hours for very little on a commission basis.

    pic.twitter.com/i7SuC43Xab

    What's your link about? Apes, which we are, don't have twitter.
    Neither do ants, which we aren't.

    Its about the rise in employment being a smokescreen as full time employment goes through the floor...


    and actually, despite your odd notions of me being an employer who feasts on expensive food, I am one of those affected, and going skint!
  • HughHugh Posts: 955
    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Musing on the employment numbers, I'm reminded of how past economic "booms" in the UK have been undermined by labour shortages and capacity issues. By the mid 80s the south of England effectively had full employment but the shortage of labour led to rising wages which in turn fed through as rising inflation - look at the rising inflation numbers from 1988 to 1990.

    Rising inflation and an overheating economy triggered rises in interest rates which would eventually end up in September 1992 at 15% as the pound was tagged to the Deutsche Mark in the ERM.

    I was also fascinated by the comment in the BoE report that companies are using labour instead of investing through capital and that must be a concern going forward in terms of productivity if all someone has to do is to employ someone rather than check business processes or invest in new equipment.

    We've also got the phenomenal rise in self-employment which some may regard as the vanguard of a new entrepreneurial revolution but alternatively is large numbers of people working long hours for very little on a commission basis.

    pic.twitter.com/i7SuC43Xab

    What's your link about? Apes, which we are, don't have twitter.
    Neither do ants, which we aren't.

    Its about the rise in employment being a smokescreen as full time employment goes through the floor...


    and actually, despite your odd notions of me being an employer who feasts on expensive food, I am one of those affected, and going skint!
    Bloody hell look, it's worse than I thought, we're related to EVERYTHING!

    Trees, which we are, don't hate immigrants and vote UKIP I don't think. Or do they?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_human_evolution
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,121

    GIN1138 said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Applying the L&N model to IPSOS we have:-

    (Central forecast)

    Con vote lead 8.5%
    Con seat lead 76 seats

    (10000 Monte Carlo simulations)

    Chance of Tory vote lead: 100.0%
    Chance of a Tory seat lead: 99.5%

    Chance of a Hung Parliament: 38.8%
    Chance of a Tory majority: 61.2%
    Chance of a Labour majority: 0.0%

    The Tory position seems to be gradually strengthening...

    Yeeeeesssss!

    We've won!

    Hang on GIN, it's only 2 days ago since you admitted that you'd more or less completely given up on the Tories!
    JackW told me to get a grip and man up...
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited August 2014
    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Musing on the employment numbers, I'm reminded of how past economic "booms" in the UK have been undermined by labour shortages and capacity issues. By the mid 80s the south of England effectively had full employment but the shortage of labour led to rising wages which in turn fed through as rising inflation - look at the rising inflation numbers from 1988 to 1990.

    Rising inflation and an overheating economy triggered rises in interest rates which would eventually end up in September 1992 at 15% as the pound was tagged to the Deutsche Mark in the ERM.

    I was also fascinated by the comment in the BoE report that companies are using labour instead of investing through capital and that must be a concern going forward in terms of productivity if all someone has to do is to employ someone rather than check business processes or invest in new equipment.

    We've also got the phenomenal rise in self-employment which some may regard as the vanguard of a new entrepreneurial revolution but alternatively is large numbers of people working long hours for very little on a commission basis.

    pic.twitter.com/i7SuC43Xab

    What's your link about? Apes, which we are, don't have twitter.
    Neither do ants, which we aren't.

    Its about the rise in employment being a smokescreen as full time employment goes through the floor...


    and actually, despite your odd notions of me being an employer who feasts on expensive food, I am one of those affected, and going skint!
    Bloody hell look, it's worse than I thought, we're related to EVERYTHING!

    Trees, which we are, don't hate immigrants and vote UKIP I don't think. Or do they?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_human_evolution
    If you were funny, which you aren't, I might bother opening the links you post, but I don't!

  • HughHugh Posts: 955
    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Musing on the employment numbers, I'm reminded of how past economic "booms" in the UK have been undermined by labour shortages and capacity issues. By the mid 80s the south of England effectively had full employment but the shortage of labour led to rising wages which in turn fed through as rising inflation - look at the rising inflation numbers from 1988 to 1990.

    Rising inflation and an overheating economy triggered rises in interest rates which would eventually end up in September 1992 at 15% as the pound was tagged to the Deutsche Mark in the ERM.

    I was also fascinated by the comment in the BoE report that companies are using labour instead of investing through capital and that must be a concern going forward in terms of productivity if all someone has to do is to employ someone rather than check business processes or invest in new equipment.

    We've also got the phenomenal rise in self-employment which some may regard as the vanguard of a new entrepreneurial revolution but alternatively is large numbers of people working long hours for very little on a commission basis.

    pic.twitter.com/i7SuC43Xab

    What's your link about? Apes, which we are, don't have twitter.
    Neither do ants, which we aren't.

    Its about the rise in employment being a smokescreen as full time employment goes through the floor...


    and actually, despite your odd notions of me being an employer who feasts on expensive food, I am one of those affected, and going skint!
    Bloody hell look, it's worse than I thought, we're related to EVERYTHING!

    Trees, which we are, don't hate immigrants and vote UKIP I don't think. Or do they?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_human_evolution
    If you were funny, which you aren't, I might bother opening the links you post, but I don't!

    "Apes, which we are"
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Musing on the employment numbers, I'm reminded of how past economic "booms" in the UK have been undermined by labour shortages and capacity issues. By the mid 80s the south of England effectively had full employment but the shortage of labour led to rising wages which in turn fed through as rising inflation - look at the rising inflation numbers from 1988 to 1990.

    Rising inflation and an overheating economy triggered rises in interest rates which would eventually end up in September 1992 at 15% as the pound was tagged to the Deutsche Mark in the ERM.

    I was also fascinated by the comment in the BoE report that companies are using labour instead of investing through capital and that must be a concern going forward in terms of productivity if all someone has to do is to employ someone rather than check business processes or invest in new equipment.

    We've also got the phenomenal rise in self-employment which some may regard as the vanguard of a new entrepreneurial revolution but alternatively is large numbers of people working long hours for very little on a commission basis.

    pic.twitter.com/i7SuC43Xab

    What's your link about? Apes, which we are, don't have twitter.
    Neither do ants, which we aren't.

    Its about the rise in employment being a smokescreen as full time employment goes through the floor...


    and actually, despite your odd notions of me being an employer who feasts on expensive food, I am one of those affected, and going skint!
    Bloody hell look, it's worse than I thought, we're related to EVERYTHING!

    Trees, which we are, don't hate immigrants and vote UKIP I don't think. Or do they?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_human_evolution
    If you were funny, which you aren't, I might bother opening the links you post, but I don't!

    "Apes, which we are"
    "Socialist Ants"
  • Hugh said:

    isam said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Musing on the employment numbers, I'm reminded of how past economic "booms" in the UK have been undermined by labour shortages and capacity issues. By the mid 80s the south of England effectively had full employment but the shortage of labour led to rising wages which in turn fed through as rising inflation - look at the rising inflation numbers from 1988 to 1990.

    Rising inflation and an overheating economy triggered rises in interest rates which would eventually end up in September 1992 at 15% as the pound was tagged to the Deutsche Mark in the ERM.

    I was also fascinated by the comment in the BoE report that companies are using labour instead of investing through capital and that must be a concern going forward in terms of productivity if all someone has to do is to employ someone rather than check business processes or invest in new equipment.

    We've also got the phenomenal rise in self-employment which some may regard as the vanguard of a new entrepreneurial revolution but alternatively is large numbers of people working long hours for very little on a commission basis.

    pic.twitter.com/i7SuC43Xab

    What's your link about? Apes, which we are, don't have twitter.
    Cats have Litter.
    Mandelson uses Quitter.
  • HughHugh Posts: 955
    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Musing on the employment numbers, I'm reminded of how past economic "booms" in the UK have been undermined by labour shortages and capacity issues. By the mid 80s the south of England effectively had full employment but the shortage of labour led to rising wages which in turn fed through as rising inflation - look at the rising inflation numbers from 1988 to 1990.

    Rising inflation and an overheating economy triggered rises in interest rates which would eventually end up in September 1992 at 15% as the pound was tagged to the Deutsche Mark in the ERM.

    I was also fascinated by the comment in the BoE report that companies are using labour instead of investing through capital and that must be a concern going forward in terms of productivity if all someone has to do is to employ someone rather than check business processes or invest in new equipment.

    We've also got the phenomenal rise in self-employment which some may regard as the vanguard of a new entrepreneurial revolution but alternatively is large numbers of people working long hours for very little on a commission basis.

    pic.twitter.com/i7SuC43Xab

    What's your link about? Apes, which we are, don't have twitter.
    Neither do ants, which we aren't.

    Its about the rise in employment being a smokescreen as full time employment goes through the floor...


    and actually, despite your odd notions of me being an employer who feasts on expensive food, I am one of those affected, and going skint!
    Bloody hell look, it's worse than I thought, we're related to EVERYTHING!

    Trees, which we are, don't hate immigrants and vote UKIP I don't think. Or do they?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_human_evolution
    If you were funny, which you aren't, I might bother opening the links you post, but I don't!

    "Apes, which we are"
    "Socialist Ants"
    But exactly how far back in the evolutionary tree do you "we are apes" UKIPers go to find your role models?
  • Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Musing on the employment numbers, I'm reminded of how past economic "booms" in the UK have been undermined by labour shortages and capacity issues. By the mid 80s the south of England effectively had full employment but the shortage of labour led to rising wages which in turn fed through as rising inflation - look at the rising inflation numbers from 1988 to 1990.

    Rising inflation and an overheating economy triggered rises in interest rates which would eventually end up in September 1992 at 15% as the pound was tagged to the Deutsche Mark in the ERM.

    I was also fascinated by the comment in the BoE report that companies are using labour instead of investing through capital and that must be a concern going forward in terms of productivity if all someone has to do is to employ someone rather than check business processes or invest in new equipment.

    We've also got the phenomenal rise in self-employment which some may regard as the vanguard of a new entrepreneurial revolution but alternatively is large numbers of people working long hours for very little on a commission basis.

    pic.twitter.com/i7SuC43Xab

    What's your link about? Apes, which we are, don't have twitter.
    Neither do ants, which we aren't.

    Its about the rise in employment being a smokescreen as full time employment goes through the floor...


    and actually, despite your odd notions of me being an employer who feasts on expensive food, I am one of those affected, and going skint!
    Bloody hell look, it's worse than I thought, we're related to EVERYTHING!

    Trees, which we are, don't hate immigrants and vote UKIP I don't think. Or do they?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_human_evolution
    If you were funny, which you aren't, I might bother opening the links you post, but I don't!

    "Apes, which we are"
    "Socialist Ants"
    But exactly how far back in the evolutionary tree do you "we are apes" UKIPers go to find your role models?
    Ants, Bees, Wasps and Termites were the world's first monarchists?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,779
    Today's earnings figures also lead me to think George Osborne, whose own rank unpopularity has been laid bare by MORI, knows he has to try and give something back in his pre-election Budget. I still think the 40p threshold will be raised sharply to drag people in key marginals out of higher rate taxation.

    That said, I don't mind the longer hours and I can just about tolerate the depressed wages but to be told my rail fares (a not insignificant part of my salary) will rise another 5.6% in January is for this earner a real kick in the teeth.

    I distantly recall that what did for the Conservatives in February 1974 was a loss of support in commuter areas around London on the back of big fare increases.
  • HughHugh Posts: 955

    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Musing on the employment numbers, I'm reminded of how past economic "booms" in the UK have been undermined by labour shortages and capacity issues. By the mid 80s the south of England effectively had full employment but the shortage of labour led to rising wages which in turn fed through as rising inflation - look at the rising inflation numbers from 1988 to 1990.

    Rising inflation and an overheating economy triggered rises in interest rates which would eventually end up in September 1992 at 15% as the pound was tagged to the Deutsche Mark in the ERM.

    I was also fascinated by the comment in the BoE report that companies are using labour instead of investing through capital and that must be a concern going forward in terms of productivity if all someone has to do is to employ someone rather than check business processes or invest in new equipment.

    We've also got the phenomenal rise in self-employment which some may regard as the vanguard of a new entrepreneurial revolution but alternatively is large numbers of people working long hours for very little on a commission basis.

    pic.twitter.com/i7SuC43Xab

    What's your link about? Apes, which we are, don't have twitter.
    Neither do ants, which we aren't.

    Its about the rise in employment being a smokescreen as full time employment goes through the floor...


    and actually, despite your odd notions of me being an employer who feasts on expensive food, I am one of those affected, and going skint!
    Bloody hell look, it's worse than I thought, we're related to EVERYTHING!

    Trees, which we are, don't hate immigrants and vote UKIP I don't think. Or do they?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_human_evolution
    If you were funny, which you aren't, I might bother opening the links you post, but I don't!

    "Apes, which we are"
    "Socialist Ants"
    But exactly how far back in the evolutionary tree do you "we are apes" UKIPers go to find your role models?
    Ants, Bees, Wasps and Termites were the world's first monarchists?
    Apes, which Kippers are, pick fleas and parasites from each other. Very social creatures.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,068
    Ishmael_X said:

    isam said:

    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    But that's exactly where you are wrong. Having a hi-tech megapixel digital camera on your phone DOES make you, potentially, a good photographer - one who can sell photos. e.g. I have personally sold photos, taken my me, with an iPhone, to travel magazines - one of those photos even made the front cover of a travel supplement.

    And I am NOT a trained photographer, I am certainly not a "pro". I just happened to be in the right place at the right time with a tool which can take a million pics an hour and which does all the focusing and whatnot, for me; in those circs anyone - including me - can be a "good" photographer - which is why photography as a paying career is dying very fast.


    I don't wish to be rude but I'm not quite sure you grasp some of the concepts here: exactly how and why computers and machines are taking over: it's because they can do this stuff as well as most of us now, OR they can make the average person as good as a pro - which renders the pro redundant.

    Re photos: it's not just that they make amateurs better. It's just that a pro gets 1-in-10 shots that are great, and it's 1-in-1,000 for an amateur.

    The proliferation of camera phones, DSLRs, etc., means that amateur photographers are producing 100,000x more images than pros. And inside all the dross, are a lot of very, very good photos.


    Everything will be done by robots and we humans can concentrate on peace, love and being nice!
    That's a very accurate synopsis of Oscar Wilde's "The Soul of Man under Socialism". We are a good 75 years beyond the stage where we were mechanised enough (in his view) for the effect to kick in. Still waiting...

    It sounds like a complete dystopia.

    A world in which everything was done by machines, computers, and robots, and humans no longer had to use their brains or brawn would be hell on earth. We'd be like Wells' Eloi.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Musing on the employment numbers, I'm reminded of how past economic "booms" in the UK have been undermined by labour shortages and capacity issues. By the mid 80s the south of England effectively had full employment but the shortage of labour led to rising wages which in turn fed through as rising inflation - look at the rising inflation numbers from 1988 to 1990.

    Rising inflation and an overheating economy triggered rises in interest rates which would eventually end up in September 1992 at 15% as the pound was tagged to the Deutsche Mark in the ERM.

    I was also fascinated by the comment in the BoE report that companies are using labour instead of investing through capital and that must be a concern going forward in terms of productivity if all someone has to do is to employ someone rather than check business processes or invest in new equipment.

    We've also got the phenomenal rise in self-employment which some may regard as the vanguard of a new entrepreneurial revolution but alternatively is large numbers of people working long hours for very little on a commission basis.

    pic.twitter.com/i7SuC43Xab

    What's your link about? Apes, which we are, don't have twitter.
    Neither do ants, which we aren't.

    Its about the rise in employment being a smokescreen as full time employment goes through the floor...


    and actually, despite your odd notions of me being an employer who feasts on expensive food, I am one of those affected, and going skint!
    Bloody hell look, it's worse than I thought, we're related to EVERYTHING!

    Trees, which we are, don't hate immigrants and vote UKIP I don't think. Or do they?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_human_evolution
    If you were funny, which you aren't, I might bother opening the links you post, but I don't!

    "Apes, which we are"
    "Socialist Ants"
    But exactly how far back in the evolutionary tree do you "we are apes" UKIPers go to find your role models?
    "Postmen at Farmers markets paying £7 for a pulled pork burger" #NorthLondonLeftyView
  • jayfdeejayfdee Posts: 618
    "The Machines are coming for us all. Run for the hills." Seant,
    Amazingly we developed super efficient car wash machines/robots,but they are increasingly being replaced by human manual car wash. Strange,maybe they do a better job,but more likely they are cheaper.
  • HughHugh Posts: 955
    stodge said:

    Today's earnings figures also lead me to think George Osborne, whose own rank unpopularity has been laid bare by MORI, knows he has to try and give something back in his pre-election Budget. I still think the 40p threshold will be raised sharply to drag people in key marginals out of higher rate taxation.

    That said, I don't mind the longer hours and I can just about tolerate the depressed wages but to be told my rail fares (a not insignificant part of my salary) will rise another 5.6% in January is for this earner a real kick in the teeth.

    I distantly recall that what did for the Conservatives in February 1974 was a loss of support in commuter areas around London on the back of big fare increases.

    Well Gidders has now borrowed far more than Labour did in 13 years, so he might as well give splurge on unfunded bribes.

    Voters don't tend to be that grateful for tax cut bribes though, ask Osborne's role model, Gordon Brown.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    jayfdee said:

    "The Machines are coming for us all. Run for the hills." Seant,
    Amazingly we developed super efficient car wash machines/robots,but they are increasingly being replaced by human manual car wash. Strange,maybe they do a better job,but more likely they are cheaper.

    Bloody Eastern Europeans, coming over here, making our machines redundant
This discussion has been closed.