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The afternoon must watch – politicalbetting.com

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  • "Nearly every malodorous myth about the Great War can be traced back to the literary septic tank that is Lloyd George’s War Memoirs."

    An article in the Express that is interesting and amusing?!!??

    End Times....
    It describes Grey's school, Winchester, as "the thinking boy's Eton"!

    I've got Lewis-Stempel's book, Six Weeks – the short and gallant life of the British officer in the First World War. It is mainly about the subalterns, iirc, the Lieutenant Georges in Blackadder terms.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited September 2021

    Just catching up. A quiz question:

    Which is higher?
    a) the number of new hospitals built under this government, or
    b) the number of new trade deals signed by this government?

    Depends upon definitions. If you exclude trade deals which roughly mirrored what we had before then as far as I know (A)

    There's been multiple new hospitals I believe, with the Australian trade deal as the one truly new deal.

    EDIT: Correction there's at least two trade deals, we've got one with the EU too which certainly does not mirror what we had before.
  • DavidL said:

    I am in awe of your indefatigability and persistence. You are seriously watching this?
    Some of it was interesting (Tugendhat, Bryant), some of it reasonably well informed (Kearns, ex-FCO), some of it was pretty pathetic (McDonald, SNP), some of it from the John Humphrys school of interruption interrogation (Coyle, Lab) and some downright embarrassing (Webbe - who thought we'd been in there forty years.....)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,592
    edited September 2021

    Your basic problem with this "argument" is that the 2014 referendum was not "once in a generation" - and frankly you either know this and are happy to lie about it are don't know this and are clueless about politics in Scotland.

    If you want to make something once in a generation you legislate it as such. It was not, so it is not. An off-the-cuff campaigning comment by the first minister is not the same as the law.
    It was because there was no referendum held before it and all parties, including Sturgeon's SNP, agreed at the time it was a once in a generation vote in their guide for an independent Scotland.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-hV_nPhzzs
    A generation is defined as 'a period of about 25 to 30 years' certainly not less than 10 years since the last one
    https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/generation

    They can whinge as much as they want, this Tory UK government will refuse them an indyref2 and under the Scotland Act 1998 the UK government gets the final say on the union's future
  • 35,693 cases....207 deaths.

    Cases steady overall, cases down in England again.
  • HYUFD said:

    It was because there was no referendum held before it and all parties, including Sturgeon's SNP, agreed at the time it was a once in a generation vote in their guide for an independent Scotland.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-hV_nPhzzs
    A generation is defined as 'a period of about 25 to 30 years' certainly not less than 10 years since the last one
    https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/generation

    They can whinge as much as they want, this Tory UK government will refuse them an indyref2 and under the Scotland Act 1998 the UK government gets the final say on the union's future
    Comedy. That was in the legislation was it?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,959

    It was on in the background whilst I wrote a lengthy reply to one client's sanity-challenged marketing team. The soporific Raab drone helped calm my own tone.
    Maybe I have underestimated him. Making a catastrophe like the retreat from Kabul (#2021 version) soporific and boring is a real skill in itself.
  • I can't help but feel Claudia Webbe's questions could have been better used.

    https://twitter.com/KateEMcCann/status/1433074871739768837?s=20
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,996
    DavidL said:

    I am in awe of your indefatigability and persistence. You are seriously watching this?
    The headline "Raab grilled live" delivered way less than it promised.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,417
    MattW said:

    Wonderful entertainment.

    'Afghanistan has been destabilised by 40 years of Western intervention."

    USSR? What's that?

    Jezza needs to take her on a Tardis holiday through COMECON.
    Well, poor Afghanistan has certainly been destabilised by 40+ years of assorted cack-handed interventions.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,959
    Nigelb said:

    The headline "Raab grilled live" delivered way less than it promised.
    There wasn't even a BBQ in sight!
  • HYUFD said:

    There is nothing in the terms of membership saying a vote against the SNP at Holyrood elections is disallowed.

    Slab and the SLDs are Scottish only parties standing for Scotland only elections at Holyrood, they only become part of the UK parties at UK general elections when they stand for Westminster
    Of course nothing says you can't vote against the SNP. That is quite different from saying it is OK to vote for another party.

    I maintain that if a Conservative member revealed that they had voted Labour or Lib Dem then they would face expulsion.

    And if a member advocates voting for another party, they too would face potential expulsion.

    You are lucky to still be in the party.
  • Comedy. That was in the legislation was it?
    That the UK gets the final say is in the Scotland Act 1998 yes, it explicitly says the union and the constitution is a reserved matter.

    But HYUFD's position is silly. The UK is a democracy and if people vote for change, even if its less than 20 years later, that should happen.

    And its completely untrue that a generation is at least ten years. Its entirely possible for two different generations to be less than ten years apart. While I was in primary school I had friends who became uncles because their older siblings had children. People are in the same generation as their siblings and a different generation to their nieces and nephews, even if there's less than 10 years in it.

    I would say we're now in a different generation of politics than we were in, in 2014. I would suggest 1993-2020 as a generation of 27 years that the UK was in the EU. In 2016 a new generation was conceived, the post-Brexit generation, which after a very long and difficult childbirth was finally born in 2020.

    So we're in a different generation now anyway.
  • Thread:

    Our investigation shows how a secretive compound in Kabul — the site of the Salt Pit, where the C.I.A. previously carried out torture on detainees — became the agency's hub for clandestine evacuations before parts of it were deliberately destroyed. https://nytimes.com/2021/09/01/world/asia/cia-afghanistan-evacuations-demolitions.html

    https://twitter.com/heytherehaIey/status/1433056608595193858?s=20
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,592

    It describes Grey's school, Winchester, as "the thinking boy's Eton"!

    I've got Lewis-Stempel's book, Six Weeks – the short and gallant life of the British officer in the First World War. It is mainly about the subalterns, iirc, the Lieutenant Georges in Blackadder terms.
    Wykehamists tend to be less posh than Etonians but more intellectual
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,959

    I can't help but feel Claudia Webbe's questions could have been better used.

    https://twitter.com/KateEMcCann/status/1433074871739768837?s=20

    By her? Unlikely.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,615

    35,693 cases....207 deaths.

    Cases steady overall, cases down in England again.

    Scottish numbers in hospital rising pretty fast -> doubled in last 12 days.
    Don't really understand why it's so different there... feels like must be schools spreading cases and then going up to parents/grandparents?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    DavidL said:

    Does Harvie have no idea how hard it is to get to see your dentist during lockdown? They cancelled on me again today for the second time. He makes not grinding your teeth almost impossible.

    Perhaps the Harvie could become a unit of stupidity. Bloody daft but not the full Harvie, that sort of thing.
    Not having much problem here. Indeed got an extra appointment when she found a new hole after yanking a temporary crown off.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,592

    Of course nothing says you can't vote against the SNP. That is quite different from saying it is OK to vote for another party.

    I maintain that if a Conservative member revealed that they had voted Labour or Lib Dem then they would face expulsion.

    And if a member advocates voting for another party, they too would face potential expulsion.

    You are lucky to still be in the party.
    Given the leader of the Scottish Party said exactly the same you are wrong and he has remit over Scotland only elections not Boris and that has been the case ever since devolution.

    In England and the UK as a whole Labour is the Tories main enemy, in Scotland the Tories many enemy is the SNP
  • Anyone else enjoying Bernhard Eisel interviewing Alberto Contador in English and getting the answers in Castilian?
  • eek said:

    That probably depends on what your definition of a NEW hospital is?

    Remember that the one opened in Carlisle was really more an expanded cancer department rebranded as a cancer hospital.
    Yes, that was my point. New hospital - new wing; new trade deal - old trade deal rolled forward.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    HYUFD said:

    There is nothing in the terms of membership saying a vote against the SNP at Holyrood elections is disallowed.

    Slab and the SLDs are Scottish only parties standing for Scotland only elections at Holyrood, they only become part of the UK parties at UK general elections when they stand for Westminster
    Slab is not a Scottish only party. It's not even a separate accounting unit from the UK Labour Party, for heaven's sake! You should know that. It's only allowed to have a different name for elections because Labour fiddled the electoral legislation in the first place.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,592
    edited September 2021

    That the UK gets the final say is in the Scotland Act 1998 yes, it explicitly says the union and the constitution is a reserved matter.

    But HYUFD's position is silly. The UK is a democracy and if people vote for change, even if its less than 20 years later, that should happen.

    And its completely untrue that a generation is at least ten years. Its entirely possible for two different generations to be less than ten years apart. While I was in primary school I had friends who became uncles because their older siblings had children. People are in the same generation as their siblings and a different generation to their nieces and nephews, even if there's less than 10 years in it.

    I would say we're now in a different generation of politics than we were in, in 2014. I would suggest 1993-2020 as a generation of 27 years that the UK was in the EU. In 2016 a new generation was conceived, the post-Brexit generation, which after a very long and difficult childbirth was finally born in 2020.

    So we're in a different generation now anyway.
    In any case as the polling I gave earlier showed even most Scots don't want indyref2 before 2026 ie after the next UK general election.

    So until the next UK general election indyref2 is a non issue. If Starmer becomes PM in 2023/24 then he and the UK government would probably allow indyref2 and it would become an issue again
  • Yes, that was my point. New hospital - new wing; new trade deal - old trade deal rolled forward.
    Do you think the trade deal we have signed with the European Union is the old trade deal rolled forward?

    Do you think the trade deal we have signed with Australia is the old trade deal rolled forward?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,417
    HYUFD said:

    Wykehamists tend to be less posh than Etonians but more intellectual
    Didn't Rishi Sunak go there?
  • That the UK gets the final say is in the Scotland Act 1998 yes, it explicitly says the union and the constitution is a reserved matter.

    But HYUFD's position is silly. The UK is a democracy and if people vote for change, even if its less than 20 years later, that should happen.

    And its completely untrue that a generation is at least ten years. Its entirely possible for two different generations to be less than ten years apart. While I was in primary school I had friends who became uncles because their older siblings had children. People are in the same generation as their siblings and a different generation to their nieces and nephews, even if there's less than 10 years in it.

    I would say we're now in a different generation of politics than we were in, in 2014. I would suggest 1993-2020 as a generation of 27 years that the UK was in the EU. In 2016 a new generation was conceived, the post-Brexit generation, which after a very long and difficult childbirth was finally born in 2020.

    So we're in a different generation now anyway.
    FUDHY is a Maoist: political power grows out of the barrel of a tank.
  • Well, poor Afghanistan has certainly been destabilised by 40+ years of assorted cack-handed interventions.
    The West intervened by funding and arming the Mujahideen. 40 years ago. So Claudia was spot on!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    HYUFD said:

    Given the leader of the Scottish Party said exactly the same you are wrong and he has remit over Scotland only elections not Boris and that has been the case ever since devolution.

    In England and the UK as a whole Labour is the Tories main enemy, in Scotland the Tories many enemy is the SNP
    "You are wrong because a Tory says so" is not scintillating logic.

    And you STILL have not demonstrated that the SCUP MEMBERSHIP REGULATIONS are different. it is no good you going on about how Mr Ross decides to interpret the offside rule on the pitch is irrelevant if we are arguing about the conduct of corner kicks.
  • rkrkrk said:

    Scottish numbers in hospital rising pretty fast -> doubled in last 12 days.
    Don't really understand why it's so different there... feels like must be schools spreading cases and then going up to parents/grandparents?
    Yep. And thats with high school kids wearing masks. Just think what fun you will have when yours go back without them.

    But don't worry. Gavin Williamson will be on the case.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,592
    edited September 2021

    Didn't Rishi Sunak go there?
    He did, he is less posh by background than Boris and Cameron but more intellectual.

    Geoffrey Howe and Hugh Gaitskell were also prominent postwar Wykehamist politicians and both intellectuals too.

    Winchester is also technically older than Eton, founded in 1382, Eton was only founded in 1440
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,550
    HYUFD said:

    It won't, the Nationalists are like a crocodile, once you feed it once it will not appease it, it will be back for more.

    A generation is a generation, the UK government must not weakly appease the Nats and give an indyref2 before a genuine generation is up since 2014 otherwise they will be demanding indyref3 in less than a generation too
    Assume there IS a Sindy vote in 2023 and it's No again.
    The SNP then run in the next Holyrood elections with yet another one front and centre of their platform.
    What do you think happens?
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    rkrkrk said:

    Scottish numbers in hospital rising pretty fast -> doubled in last 12 days.
    Don't really understand why it's so different there... feels like must be schools spreading cases and then going up to parents/grandparents?
    Have Scotland's lockdowns been more severe than England's? Lockdowns don't prevent cases, they just store them up for another day....
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    kinabalu said:

    Assume there IS a Sindy vote in 2023 and it's No again.
    The SNP then run in the next Holyrood elections with yet another one front and centre of their platform.
    What do you think happens?
    And add the Scottish Greens, and the Trots if they are back in action then.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,866

    Yep. And thats with high school kids wearing masks. Just think what fun you will have when yours go back without them.

    But don't worry. Gavin Williamson will be on the case.
    Except that cases are rising fastest in the non-schiool aged, in Scotland, I believe. And that the rise started before the schools went back..
  • Do you think the trade deal we have signed with the European Union is the old trade deal rolled forward?

    Do you think the trade deal we have signed with Australia is the old trade deal rolled forward?
    No and no. Nor do I think the cancer ward in Cumbria is a new hospital.

    Do you think 35,000 cases and 207 reported deaths from Covid means that the pandemic is over, as you keep claiming?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,623
    edited September 2021
    Coming soon to the Epping Examiner*:

    "Essex Tory Councillor says 'Vote Labour!'"



    *I don't know if such a publication exists.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,592
    edited September 2021

    Coming soon to the Epping Examiner*:

    "Essex Tory Councillor says 'Vote Labour!'"



    *I don't know if such a publication exists.

    Why would I advocate voting Labour outside 1 or 2 Holyrood seats in Scotland, they are the Tories main enemy in England, in Scotland the Tories main enemy is the SNP
  • Pretty sure the Green co-leaders are bound by collective responsibility on the issue, given it's not listed as an 'excluded area' in the agreement, so they could in theory be sent out to defend it in response to questions from their own MSPs...

    Scottish Greens have just released a statement on vaccination certification. They’re seeking “assurances” from the Scottish Government that it “doesn’t adversely affect vulnerable people.”

    https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/1433086289595797509?s=20
  • Yep. And thats with high school kids wearing masks. Just think what fun you will have when yours go back without them.

    But don't worry. Gavin Williamson will be on the case.
    On BBC news this morning they were interviewing English school heads who apparently have been given autonmy to put in place whatever covid safe requirements they feel necessary including mask wearing
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,592
    kinabalu said:

    Assume there IS a Sindy vote in 2023 and it's No again.
    The SNP then run in the next Holyrood elections with yet another one front and centre of their platform.
    What do you think happens?
    They put indyref3 in their manifesto and unless SLab make a drastic revival would probably win most seats again and we are back to square 1 again
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617

    Coming soon to the Epping Examiner*:

    "Essex Tory Councillor says 'Vote Labour!'"



    *I don't know if such a publication exists.

    There is such a publication, though the title is different: fo rinstance

    https://www.eppingforestguardian.co.uk/news/19490347.deborah-barlow-councillor-kicked-50k-debt-allegations/
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,417

    The West intervened by funding and arming the Mujahideen. 40 years ago. So Claudia was spot on!
    The Mujahideen were opposed to the imposition of Communist rule as a result of the Soviet invasion of 1979.
    Unless I'm reading it wrong Afghanistan as a whole was slowly moving along a 'liberalising' (relatively, anyway) path prior to that.
    Basically it was left to get on with itself.
    We'd had a bloody nose or two and consequently kept quite a low profile.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Pretty sure the Green co-leaders are bound by collective responsibility on the issue, given it's not listed as an 'excluded area' in the agreement, so they could in theory be sent out to defend it in response to questions from their own MSPs...

    Scottish Greens have just released a statement on vaccination certification. They’re seeking “assurances” from the Scottish Government that it “doesn’t adversely affect vulnerable people.”

    https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/1433086289595797509?s=20

    Which way will the other parties vote? labour/tories etc?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    HYUFD said:

    Why would I advocate voting Labour outside 1 or 2 Holyrood seats in Scotland, they are the Tories main enemy in England, in Scotland the Tories main enemy is the SNP
    Very fact of advocating it at all is sufficient. You can't be just a little adulterous.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,959
    HYUFD said:

    He did, he is less posh by background than Boris and Cameron but more intellectual.

    Geoffrey Howe and Hugh Gaitskell were also prominent postwar Wykehamist politicians and both intellectuals too.

    Winchester is also technically older than Eton, founded in 1382, Eton was only founded in 1440
    Nouveau riche right enough.
  • Voodoo poll!
    Which UK prime minister do you think has set the worst example since leaving office? @SebastianEPayne looks at the need to find a better role for our past prime ministers https://ft.com/content/f7ec5c53-3cdb-4584-b221-86483e2b15ee

    https://twitter.com/FinancialTimes/status/1433088536706752516?s=20
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,592
    DavidL said:

    Nouveau riche right enough.
    You can't just get into Winchester on your parents money alone however, you also have to pass a competitive entrance exam

  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    Deaths and positive tests now appear to be falling, at least according to the NHS dashboard.

    Is this the 'big spike' that @RochdalePioneers was alluding to earlier?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    HYUFD said:

    You can't just get into Winchester on your parents money alone however, you also have to pass a competitive entrance exam

    Not much of a pool if your parents are rich. Elementary point of statistical analysis.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,886
    I see Kevin McCarthy and Marjorie Taylor Greene are threatening telecoms companies with being banned from trading if they turn over evidence to Congress.
    America is not in a good place.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited September 2021

    No and no. Nor do I think the cancer ward in Cumbria is a new hospital.

    Do you think 35,000 cases and 207 reported deaths from Covid means that the pandemic is over, as you keep claiming?
    Yes.

    I think that's endemic not an epidemic.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    edited September 2021

    Which way will the other parties vote? labour/tories etc?
    Liberals are opposed to vaccine certification, which represents the introduction of a medical ID card on a domestic basis for the first time. You should not be compelled to present private medical data in order to access freedoms in our society.

    https://twitter.com/agcolehamilton/status/1433088699386974210?s=20

    Ross & Sarwar hedged their bets.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    dixiedean said:

    I see Kevin McCarthy and Marjorie Taylor Greene are threatening telecoms companies with being banned from trading if they turn over evidence to Congress.
    America is not in a good place.

    I had to check that you hadn't left out a 'didn't' before 'turn over'. Turns out that even includes evidence under subpoena from Congress.

    https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/08/kevin-mccarthy-threatens-firms-not-to-help-january-6-probe.html
  • Except that cases are rising fastest in the non-schiool aged, in Scotland, I believe. And that the rise started before the schools went back..
    I didn't say the kids were catching it. They are transmission vectors for it. And of course it isn't a singular issue, but it does accelerate it. Just as you already have a huge pile of cases already in England before your kids go back next week.
  • Deaths and positive tests now appear to be falling, at least according to the NHS dashboard.

    Is this the 'big spike' that @RochdalePioneers was alluding to earlier?

    The big spike that started in June.
  • The big spike that started in June.
    If this is what you define as a big spike, we have nothing to fear from big spikes.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,550
    HYUFD said:

    They put indyref3 in their manifesto and unless SLab make a drastic revival would probably win most seats again and we are back to square 1 again
    There's our line of difference then. With a 2nd "No" in a decade, the SNP would imo need to backburner the issue to prevent leaking support. Their dominance of Scottish politics would be over if they kept pushing for yet another vote. This is not square 1 and back to the future, it's a different future.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,975
    HYUFD said:

    Though even in NZ the latest poll has Ardern's Labour down to 39.5% from 50% at the last election and the libertarian ACT up from 7.6% to 13%
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_New_Zealand_general_election
    You get so excited when peculiar and scary right wing parties and candidates the world over benefit from centrist inertia.

    Oh, the irony that Ardern is tossed assunder for her Covid response yet Johnson's star ascends higher.

    "But Boris is the world's vaccine hero, he invented the vaccines" cry the fanbois.
  • Yep. And thats with high school kids wearing masks. Just think what fun you will have when yours go back without them.

    But don't worry. Gavin Williamson will be on the case.
    This madness thinking remains that cases zoom up despite people wearing masks and people just think it would be worse if people didn't wear masks.

    In England now in many settings including pubs,clubs football grounds no one is wearing a mask and people are in very close proximity to each other, yet cases here have been falling slightly over the past 8 days..

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,120
    Nigelb said:

    Surprised @ydoethur isn't around to snaffle the punning opportunity.
    I’d actually been saddled with courier duties.
    malcolmg said:

    Certainly would not be out to stud
    Well, no. Given where I work, that would be a safeguarding issue.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,592

    We aren't your enemy. We are political opponents.

    If we were standing against each other in an election and you beat me, I'd shake your hand and say "Well Done!"
    So would I but you would still be my political enemy and you would still try and beat me the next time
  • You get so excited when peculiar and scary right wing parties and candidates the world over benefit from centrist inertia.

    Oh, the irony that Ardern is tossed assunder for her Covid response yet Johnson's star ascends higher.

    "But Boris is the world's vaccine hero, he invented the vaccines" cry the fanbois.
    He didn't invent them.

    He did out of all major nations have by far the world's best policy of procuring them. An outstanding job even you must admit surely?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,592
    edited September 2021

    You get so excited when peculiar and scary right wing parties and candidates the world over benefit from centrist inertia.

    Oh, the irony that Ardern is tossed assunder for her Covid response yet Johnson's star ascends higher.

    "But Boris is the world's vaccine hero, he invented the vaccines" cry the fanbois.
    Ardern's Labour still leads the Nationals, the main opposition party, just she has lost votes to her left to the Greens and to her libertarian right to the ACT
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,120
    edited September 2021

    The West intervened by funding and arming the Mujahideen. 40 years ago. So Claudia was spot on!
    I think that’s a very optimistic interpretation of the accuracy of her remarks.

    Edit; WTF autocorrect?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,886
    Carnyx said:

    I had to check that you hadn't left out a 'didn't' before 'turn over'. Turns out that even includes evidence under subpoena from Congress.

    https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/08/kevin-mccarthy-threatens-firms-not-to-help-january-6-probe.html
    Screams neither "the Party of business.". Nor "I have nothing to hide."
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,183

    This madness thinking remains that cases zoom up despite people wearing masks and people just think it would be worse if people didn't wear masks.

    In England now in many settings including pubs,clubs football grounds no one is wearing a mask and people are in very close proximity to each other, yet cases here have been falling slightly over the past 8 days..

    Not worn one for several weeks now (last time was cos I nipped on the Tube in London); cricket matches, trains (including several cross country journeys as well as trips to Town), trade shows, weddings etc. Such a relief.

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,975
    edited September 2021

    He didn't invent them.

    He did out of all major nations have by far the world's best policy of procuring them. An outstanding job even you must admit surely?
    Yes the UK's vaccine rollout was excellent, and as the event took place on Johnson's watch he is entitled to claim the credit.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617

    We aren't your enemy. We are political opponents.

    If we were standing against each other in an election and you beat me, I'd shake your hand and say "Well Done!"
    All a bit off if you ask me, this 'enemy' business. Tanks for nothing.
  • The big spike that started in June.
    Where?

    image
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,120

    We aren't your enemy. We are political opponents.

    If we were standing against each other in an election and you beat me, I'd shake your hand and say "Well Done!"
    Could somebody please explain this to Laura Pidcock as well?
  • HYUFD said:

    So would I but you would still be my political enemy and you would still try and beat me the next time
    Enemy is too strong a word. Yes?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,132
    edited September 2021
    DavidL said:

    Does Harvie have no idea how hard it is to get to see your dentist during lockdown? They cancelled on me again today for the second time. He makes not grinding your teeth almost impossible.

    Perhaps the Harvie could become a unit of stupidity. Bloody daft but not the full Harvie, that sort of thing.
    4 Harvies make a Wells perhaps?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,969
    MattW said:

    Brains Trust:

    I'm on the lookout for a compact digital or mirrorless camera which has a reasonable performance for architecture, and particularly in low light.

    Does anyone have any recommendations?

    Budget is really what it needs to be, but I'm keen to stay some way below £1000 if I can.

    Thanks

    I am very happy with my Panasonic LUMIX G5
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,096
    A picture of the fucking queen ?

    Seriously ?
  • .
    HYUFD said:

    They put indyref3 in their manifesto and unless SLab make a drastic revival would probably win most seats again and we are back to square 1 again
    Then why haven't the Bloc Quebecois held an IndyRef3?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    edited September 2021
    Pulpstar said:

    A picture of the fucking queen ?

    Seriously ?

    Mr Raab? Or what?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,550

    Yes the UK's vaccine rollout was excellent, and as the event took place on Johnson's watch he is entitled to claim the credit.
    I can see "they jabber we jab" becoming the next "clearing up Labour's mess".
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,794

    The big spike that started in June.
    Which one would that be? Numbers not opinions, please.
  • kinabalu said:

    I can see "they jabber we jab" becoming the next "clearing up Labour's mess".
    An entirely factual and valid point to win votes?

    Yes I can too.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,437
    edited September 2021

    Yes.

    I think that's endemic not an epidemic.
    I opened a new hospital this morning....

    sorry, I meant a new packet of paracetomol.

    (thanks to J O'Brien for that... :))
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,592

    .

    Then why haven't the Bloc Quebecois held an IndyRef3?
    As Quebec's indyref2 was 15 years after the first one ie pretty much a genuine generation and as the Quebec Liberals revived to beat them under Jean Charest in the 2000s
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,335

    Enemy is too strong a word. Yes?
    Nemesis? Eternal foes?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    edited September 2021
    kle4 said:

    Nemesis? Eternal foes?
    Traitors? Subversives?

    Edit: Nah, that's just ordinary PB banter. Is it?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,969
    edited September 2021
    TOPPING said:

    Yep there is zero incentive to relay the results accurately or even take them.

    But you will need a fit to fly and unless you trust your internet to do one using that then a local docs is your best bet - took me all of 5-8 mins from turning up to the clinic to (miraculous) negative result.

    I then did take the Randox Day 2 test (negative) but pondered the use of doing so.
    I suspect the whole thing is really intended to reduce the volume of travellers (looking at Monday’s Eurotunnel, it is clearly working; fewer cars than last year), in which case fairly soon now it might all be dropped, once the holiday season is done.

    In Europe my first impressions are that the French are more relaxed even than last year while the Germans are still doing everything ‘properly’.

    Austria, Italy and Hungary have all recently relaxed their restrictions on British travellers.
  • HYUFD said:

    As Quebec's indyref2 was 15 years after the first one ie pretty much a genuine generation and as the Quebec Liberals revived to beat them under Jean Charest in the 2000s
    Because politics moves on. BQ voters divided after losing the second time, just as SNP ones would after a second defeat.
  • Pulpstar said:

    A picture of the fucking queen ?

    Seriously ?

    Who is she...?
    Ok, probably too soon.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,009

    Comedy. That was in the legislation was it?
    Pointless , he is like a broken record
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,335
    Carnyx said:

    Traitors? Subversives?

    Edit: Nah, that's just ordinary PB banter. Is it?
    Depends if one uses a smiley emoji while doing it.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,975
    kinabalu said:

    I can see "they jabber we jab" becoming the next "clearing up Labour's mess".
    Credit where it's due. It is fortunate for the Conservative Party that no one minds the 150,000 Covid fatalities due to late lockdowns etc.

    Anyway "Labour jabber, Conservatives jab" is a perfect Johnsonian retort even when he is being questioned on low conviction rates for rape. Maybe Raab missed a trick by not giving Bryant that same reply to his questions this afternoon.
  • ydoethur said:

    Could somebody please explain this to Laura Pidcock as well?
    Now she IS the enemy!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,975

    An entirely factual and valid point to win votes?

    Yes I can too.
    Even as a response to low rates of rape convictions? ...ok.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,592
    I note England cases down on last week again, and this time the tests were 20% higher than last week - is this trend going to survive the schools return asymptomatic testing bonanza?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,550

    An entirely factual and valid point to win votes?

    Yes I can too.
    No, Philip. A mendacious soundbite repeated ad tedium because it's effective, is what I meant there.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,120

    Now she IS the enemy!
    OK, I admit you’ve got me there.
  • This madness thinking remains that cases zoom up despite people wearing masks and people just think it would be worse if people didn't wear masks.

    In England now in many settings including pubs,clubs football grounds no one is wearing a mask and people are in very close proximity to each other, yet cases here have been falling slightly over the past 8 days..

    The big surge in cases started in June, fell back from the peak but is still holding at a very high level. It did not start last week.

    I am happy for you in England to make your choices on this matter. I am happy that we have made different choices in Scotland.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,120
    maaarsh said:

    I note England cases down on last week again, and this time the tests were 20% higher than last week - is this trend going to survive the schools return asymptomatic testing bonanza?

    Testing for school returns should already have started given the numbers due to go back tomorrow or more likely Friday.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,975
    maaarsh said:

    I note England cases down on last week again, and this time the tests were 20% higher than last week - is this trend going to survive the schools return asymptomatic testing bonanza?

    I think that test figures are becoming less reliable as people turn off their NHS app. Hospitalisations and deaths are now a more reliable metric, are they not?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,969
    Behr: Johnson has been doing the job for two years, but still seems surprised by the constant nagging of events. Meanwhile, Tory MPs are still surprised when their leader fails some test of leadership, as if they had not met him before and his reprobate tendency had been a secret.

    If there were only two steps in delivering effective government – making promises and writing cheques – Johnson would be on track for the transformational legacy he craves. But there are more, longer strides, which get harder to take because they go uphill and the way isn’t lined with cheering fans. That is usually where the prime minister’s attention fades.

    There will be surprises, too, demanding rapid reaction and executive competence supported by a strong cabinet. Without those conditions in place, it hardly matters what the prime minister thinks his agenda should be. He can choose what to talk about in the autumn, and persuade some audiences that he means it. But his powers run out almost as soon as the clapping stops. That is not a problem in election campaigns, where success can be measured in pleased crowds. But it is disastrous in government, where decisions must be taken with some other purpose in mind. The prime minister knows that he needs such a purpose, but not what it feels like to have one.

    The pandemic has been an exceptional event that would challenge any leader, but it is not the abnormal nature of the crisis that causes Johnson’s difficulties. He struggles because the way he does the job makes crisis the norm.
  • kinabalu said:

    No, Philip. A mendacious soundbite repeated ad tedium because it's effective, is what I meant there.
    But both statements are only effective because the public knows they are true.

    If you don't want lines like "clearing up Labour's mess" to be effective then how about not getting in a mess than another government needs to clear up? Just a simple idea.

    When there was a once-in-a-century global pandemic Labour didn't need to clear up the mess years later after the next election because the Tories thanks to a best-in-the-world vaccine procurement were able to solve it already first.

    But when Labour were in office they trashed the finances and left them so atrocious it took years for the Tories to fix Labour's mess. Labour weren't able to fix the mess themselves.
This discussion has been closed.