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The afternoon must watch – politicalbetting.com

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  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,952
    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    And @MaxPB fpt re LFT testing in Greece.

    Very very easy. You will get the address (google or recommendation from your hotel) of a friendly doctor's practice, you will rock up, they will wave the swab around in the general vicinity of your face and pronounce you fit to fly.

    €25 very badly spent but what can you do. I slightly bridled at the fact that were it positive you would NOT BE ALLOWED TO FLY INTO YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

    Ponder that, @contrarian -haters.

    You are not allowed to fly while having a communicatable disease
    Is the flu a communicable disease?
    In the sense of being notifiable to the public authorities rather than infectious
    So are you allowed to fly while having a communicable disease?
    See @Philip_Thompson at 14:01
    Yes I saw that. Can you post me the bit about not being allowed to fly while having a communicable disease.

    Does this mean that people have never flown or been allowed to fly while they have had the flu?
    Notifiable. Not flu.
    Thanks. Makes sense. Can you provide a link to the law pls.
  • Aslan said:

    DavidL said:

    What makes them think that he has done anything in the last 4 months?

    I said six month ago (ish) that Liz Truss was doing more for Britain and for foreign affairs in her role than the actual Foreign Secretary.

    Nothing has changed that opinion.
    Her department described as "Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V" by Whitehall mandarins for the copy and paste continuation deals being touted as new.
    Civil servants scornful about Brexit-related policy? Surely not!
    About the politics more than the policy. We absolutely have to recreate all the trade deals we abandoned when we quit the EU. They just aren't "new" in the way they are being billed. Unless the status quo ante is "new".
    That's amusing because I recall repeatedly being told before Truss was in place what a nightmare renegotiating all of those deals would be.

    I seem to recall saying the smart thing to do would be for pre-existing deals is to copy and paste the existing deals where possible to get the new deals - and I was laughed at by multiple Remainers on here for suggesting that and was repeatedly told that wouldn't be possible and that we'd be "over a barrel" and other countries would "hold all the cards" and we couldn't possibly get the same terms outside the EU.

    Then Truss did exactly what I said we should do - and that Remainers said was impossible - and now Remainers like yourself [including now yourself since your jump to the Lib Dems] claim that its not important and something to be scornful about.

    Funny how that works isn't it?
    We haven't renegotiated these deals. Trying to renegotiate for better terms would absolutely be hard. We aren't doing that. The only new deal we have done is party time for Australia and crippling for UK agriculture - literally them having us over a barrel.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    And @MaxPB fpt re LFT testing in Greece.

    Very very easy. You will get the address (google or recommendation from your hotel) of a friendly doctor's practice, you will rock up, they will wave the swab around in the general vicinity of your face and pronounce you fit to fly.

    €25 very badly spent but what can you do. I slightly bridled at the fact that were it positive you would NOT BE ALLOWED TO FLY INTO YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

    Ponder that, @contrarian -haters.

    You are not allowed to fly while having a communicatable disease
    Is the flu a communicable disease?
    In the sense of being notifiable to the public authorities rather than infectious
    So are you allowed to fly while having a communicable disease?
    See @Philip_Thompson at 14:01
    Yes I saw that. Can you post me the bit about not being allowed to fly while having a communicable disease.

    Does this mean that people have never flown or been allowed to fly while they have had the flu?
    Notifiable. Not flu.
    But flu is notifiable (though not by airlines). It's here.

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/notifiable-diseases-and-causative-organisms-how-to-report
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,952
    Carnyx said:

    TOPPING said:

    Carnyx said:

    TOPPING said:

    Carnyx said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    And @MaxPB fpt re LFT testing in Greece.

    Very very easy. You will get the address (google or recommendation from your hotel) of a friendly doctor's practice, you will rock up, they will wave the swab around in the general vicinity of your face and pronounce you fit to fly.

    €25 very badly spent but what can you do. I slightly bridled at the fact that were it positive you would NOT BE ALLOWED TO FLY INTO YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

    Ponder that, @contrarian -haters.

    You are not allowed to fly while having a communicatable disease
    Can you please also post the link to that ordinance. I can't find it after a brief google.
    Did you search under "communicable"?
    "flying communicable disease"

    Basic, but I thought it would cover the bases.
    https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb/information/travel-assistance/medical-conditions-and-pregnancy#

    But that is contractual stuff.

    Not allowing people into a country with assorted poxes is basic legal stuff - the means being irrelevant, e.g. Venetian galley, 747, who cares? - but it redounds on the airline in question, so ...
    Would appreciate the link (on gov.uk?) to that effect.
    I'll leave that to Charles - now on a very tricky part of my annual financial check up and tax return ... (from which I am skiving occasionally to dip in)
    Back you go totally understand - to tie in an earlier discussion, you can't avoid ***** or taxes...
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Just working my way through the implications of the Texas abortion bill.

    As far as I can tell a rapist would now be able to successfully sue anyone involved in his victim's abortion if she chose to get one. Unless there is a specific restriction on that I haven't read about.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889

    HYUFD said:

    There seems to be clear logic in @Philip_Thompson 's position: if you are still fearful of covid, despite your vaccination status, you are at liberty to spend all your time in public wearing a FFP3 mask while avoiding anywhere that agitates your fear.

    If you are not fearful, and want to try to live your life as normally as possible, then you are equally at liberty to abandon your mask.

    I fit into the latter group, but realise that some people differ.

    So what? Live and let live.

    Lol - what people may or may not be fearful of is not the issue. Public health is the issue. There are plenty of wazzocks out there denying Covid and some of them win a Darwin Award by dying from it.

    We're in the middle of another big spike of pox that isn't going away. You will of course insist that your government-mandated wayward behaviour has nothing to do with it.
    Big spike? Deaths were down this week compared to the week before and were miniscule. If that's what you're considering a big spike then I'm quite happy to live with it.
    As I said, you may be dismissive, the rest of the world is not. The pandemic (not endemic) is still ripping through the globe, with new variants being created and we know how much they are when we get them.

    We may not be dying by the thousand every day thank God. But we are still a massively infected island, infection rates remain very very high compared to most other countries and its no wonder that we remain on restricted country lists in so many places.
    I couldn't care less.

    The entire planet needs to learn to live with the virus. Of course countries that haven't as successfully handled Covid19 as Britain so are less vaccinated than us will be terrified of Delta letting rip there - if I was in New Zealand or Australia right now it'd be a real concern.

    I'm delighted that we vaccinated ourselves first ahead of the world. The rest of the world needs to catch up with us in learning to live with the virus, that's not a bad thing, its just a sign of our huge success that we got there before them.
    Got it. So our vax rates now lagging behind chunks of Europe is cause for delight, and we are right and the rest of the world is wrong.

    The problem of course is that whilst England can think like that it doesn't mean the rest of the world has to agree and do what we say. We're going to end up getting mandatory quarantine going anywhere off this island at this rate.
    Which would still be better than mandatory isolation, travel bans and never ending lockdowns which NZ and Australia have now due to their low vaccination rates compared to ours
    Absolutely agreed – the Damocles Sword Lockdown / Prison Island model is beyond oppressive. The New Zealanders are still in the obdeient-sanguine phase, but the Australians are starting to twitch.

    The deal here: No Restrictions – Moderate Risk is probably the best we can hope for at the moment.
    Though even in NZ the latest poll has Ardern's Labour down to 39.5% from 50% at the last election and the libertarian ACT up from 7.6% to 13%
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_New_Zealand_general_election
  • Endillion said:

    DavidL said:

    What makes them think that he has done anything in the last 4 months?

    I said six month ago (ish) that Liz Truss was doing more for Britain and for foreign affairs in her role than the actual Foreign Secretary.

    Nothing has changed that opinion.
    Her department described as "Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V" by Whitehall mandarins for the copy and paste continuation deals being touted as new.
    Ignoring the last four words of your post for a minute, isn't that literally her job for the time being? And wasn't part of the argument against Brexit that we wouldn't be able to secure equally attractive terms on our own merits, without the EU's greater buying/negotiating power? In which case she is doing a smashing job in rolling them forwards.
    Sure! We needed to roll over the trade deals we left when we exited the EU. Nobody is saying that she shouldn't be doing this.

    What I think they are referring to is her claim that these are new deals. Whilst they are a new bilateral agreement they are not new trading arrangements. And yet the claim is made repeatedly that they are.
    You mentioned yesterday that you hoped to be selected for the lib dems and I did ask if you would campaign for the union

    I would be interested in your reply
    I don't understand the question. I am a member of a federalist party. I campaigned for them against the SNP government this year. We want to sustain the union by replacing the failed current union with a new written federal UK constitution that both encompasses national parliaments and as much local devolution (to Mayors for example) as people want.

    Will I campaign to preserve the status quo? No. Do I want scottish independence? No. But we WILL end up independent unless the union is made fit for the future. Westminster choosing to expel NI from the free trade zone and telling Scotland their votes count for nothing imperils the whole shebang.
    Seems a complex way of saying you agree with lib dem policy in support of the Union and you will campaign against independence
    Its a simple way to point out that "the union" as you define it - the current constitutional settlement - is not something we support. So no, I will not be campaigning to preserve this union, but for the creation of a new one.
  • DavidL said:

    Charles said:

    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    @MattW FPT.
    Why are rabbits sentimentalised in Taiwan?

    They are simply a common pet, and an animal not eaten.
    My observation, which kicked off quite a discussion, was in response to someone getting grief for eating guinea pig in Peru.
    The point being that all cultures divide animals into pets, food, vermin and indifferent.
    Not always similarly, nor logically.

    Thanks. Is there a rabbit-eating history similar to how traditionally urban Chinese used to keep carp in the back garden for consumption? Compare England and the household pig fed on scraps.

    So a good comparison in some ways might actually be dogs in the UK?
    Horses probably more relevant

    The Brits sentimalise - the French eat them
    And the Swedes. I had cold sliced horse meat on my open sandwich for breakfast this morning.
    I take it your neigh joking?
    You gymkhana beat it.
  • Endillion said:

    DavidL said:

    What makes them think that he has done anything in the last 4 months?

    I said six month ago (ish) that Liz Truss was doing more for Britain and for foreign affairs in her role than the actual Foreign Secretary.

    Nothing has changed that opinion.
    Her department described as "Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V" by Whitehall mandarins for the copy and paste continuation deals being touted as new.
    Ignoring the last four words of your post for a minute, isn't that literally her job for the time being? And wasn't part of the argument against Brexit that we wouldn't be able to secure equally attractive terms on our own merits, without the EU's greater buying/negotiating power? In which case she is doing a smashing job in rolling them forwards.
    Sure! We needed to roll over the trade deals we left when we exited the EU. Nobody is saying that she shouldn't be doing this.

    What I think they are referring to is her claim that these are new deals. Whilst they are a new bilateral agreement they are not new trading arrangements. And yet the claim is made repeatedly that they are.
    You mentioned yesterday that you hoped to be selected for the lib dems and I did ask if you would campaign for the union

    I would be interested in your reply
    I don't understand the question. I am a member of a federalist party. I campaigned for them against the SNP government this year. We want to sustain the union by replacing the failed current union with a new written federal UK constitution that both encompasses national parliaments and as much local devolution (to Mayors for example) as people want.

    Will I campaign to preserve the status quo? No. Do I want scottish independence? No. But we WILL end up independent unless the union is made fit for the future. Westminster choosing to expel NI from the free trade zone and telling Scotland their votes count for nothing imperils the whole shebang.
    Seems a complex way of saying you agree with lib dem policy in support of the Union and you will campaign against independence
    Its a simple way to point out that "the union" as you define it - the current constitutional settlement - is not something we support. So no, I will not be campaigning to preserve this union, but for the creation of a new one.
    So will you refuse indyref2
  • Aslan said:

    DavidL said:

    What makes them think that he has done anything in the last 4 months?

    I said six month ago (ish) that Liz Truss was doing more for Britain and for foreign affairs in her role than the actual Foreign Secretary.

    Nothing has changed that opinion.
    Her department described as "Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V" by Whitehall mandarins for the copy and paste continuation deals being touted as new.
    Civil servants scornful about Brexit-related policy? Surely not!
    About the politics more than the policy. We absolutely have to recreate all the trade deals we abandoned when we quit the EU. They just aren't "new" in the way they are being billed. Unless the status quo ante is "new".
    That's amusing because I recall repeatedly being told before Truss was in place what a nightmare renegotiating all of those deals would be.

    I seem to recall saying the smart thing to do would be for pre-existing deals is to copy and paste the existing deals where possible to get the new deals - and I was laughed at by multiple Remainers on here for suggesting that and was repeatedly told that wouldn't be possible and that we'd be "over a barrel" and other countries would "hold all the cards" and we couldn't possibly get the same terms outside the EU.

    Then Truss did exactly what I said we should do - and that Remainers said was impossible - and now Remainers like yourself [including now yourself since your jump to the Lib Dems] claim that its not important and something to be scornful about.

    Funny how that works isn't it?
    We haven't renegotiated these deals. Trying to renegotiate for better terms would absolutely be hard. We aren't doing that. The only new deal we have done is party time for Australia and crippling for UK agriculture - literally them having us over a barrel.
    But two years ago your lot [which you've joined] were absolutely adamant that we would have to renegotiate the deals as other parties wouldn't let us rollover the EU's deal as we'd be "desperate".

    Have you forgotten that argument? What happened to that?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    And @MaxPB fpt re LFT testing in Greece.

    Very very easy. You will get the address (google or recommendation from your hotel) of a friendly doctor's practice, you will rock up, they will wave the swab around in the general vicinity of your face and pronounce you fit to fly.

    €25 very badly spent but what can you do. I slightly bridled at the fact that were it positive you would NOT BE ALLOWED TO FLY INTO YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

    Ponder that, @contrarian -haters.

    You are not allowed to fly while having a communicatable disease
    Is the flu a communicable disease?
    In the sense of being notifiable to the public authorities rather than infectious
    So are you allowed to fly while having a communicable disease?
    See @Philip_Thompson at 14:01
    Yes I saw that. Can you post me the bit about not being allowed to fly while having a communicable disease.

    Does this mean that people have never flown or been allowed to fly while they have had the flu?
    Notifiable. Not flu.
    Thanks. Makes sense. Can you provide a link to the law pls.
    Sorry paying clients are higher priority than you
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,798

    DavidL said:

    Charles said:

    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    @MattW FPT.
    Why are rabbits sentimentalised in Taiwan?

    They are simply a common pet, and an animal not eaten.
    My observation, which kicked off quite a discussion, was in response to someone getting grief for eating guinea pig in Peru.
    The point being that all cultures divide animals into pets, food, vermin and indifferent.
    Not always similarly, nor logically.

    Thanks. Is there a rabbit-eating history similar to how traditionally urban Chinese used to keep carp in the back garden for consumption? Compare England and the household pig fed on scraps.

    So a good comparison in some ways might actually be dogs in the UK?
    Horses probably more relevant

    The Brits sentimalise - the French eat them
    And the Swedes. I had cold sliced horse meat on my open sandwich for breakfast this morning.
    I take it your neigh joking?
    You gymkhana beat it.
    What do you have to pony up for that?
  • Endillion said:

    DavidL said:

    What makes them think that he has done anything in the last 4 months?

    I said six month ago (ish) that Liz Truss was doing more for Britain and for foreign affairs in her role than the actual Foreign Secretary.

    Nothing has changed that opinion.
    Her department described as "Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V" by Whitehall mandarins for the copy and paste continuation deals being touted as new.
    Ignoring the last four words of your post for a minute, isn't that literally her job for the time being? And wasn't part of the argument against Brexit that we wouldn't be able to secure equally attractive terms on our own merits, without the EU's greater buying/negotiating power? In which case she is doing a smashing job in rolling them forwards.
    Sure! We needed to roll over the trade deals we left when we exited the EU. Nobody is saying that she shouldn't be doing this.

    What I think they are referring to is her claim that these are new deals. Whilst they are a new bilateral agreement they are not new trading arrangements. And yet the claim is made repeatedly that they are.
    You mentioned yesterday that you hoped to be selected for the lib dems and I did ask if you would campaign for the union

    I would be interested in your reply
    I don't understand the question. I am a member of a federalist party. I campaigned for them against the SNP government this year. We want to sustain the union by replacing the failed current union with a new written federal UK constitution that both encompasses national parliaments and as much local devolution (to Mayors for example) as people want.

    Will I campaign to preserve the status quo? No. Do I want scottish independence? No. But we WILL end up independent unless the union is made fit for the future. Westminster choosing to expel NI from the free trade zone and telling Scotland their votes count for nothing imperils the whole shebang.
    The Lib Dem policy is to increase the powers of the Welsh Senedd to be the same as the Scottish Parliament. In constitutional terms it doesn't offer anything new to Scotland. It's phony federalism.

    https://www.libdems.org.uk/a20-federal-uk
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889
    edited September 2021
    Alistair said:

    Just working my way through the implications of the Texas abortion bill.

    As far as I can tell a rapist would now be able to successfully sue anyone involved in his victim's abortion if she chose to get one. Unless there is a specific restriction on that I haven't read about.

    The polling has suggested Texans back it though 48% to 42% with 68% of Republicans in favour (and Republicans hold the governor's mansion and control the Texas state legislature).
    https://www.texastribune.org/2019/06/19/near-majority-texans-favor-outlawing-abortion-after-six-weeks-ut-tt/

    If she got an abortion in the first 6 weeks of pregnancy it would still be legal
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814

    DavidL said:

    Charles said:

    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    @MattW FPT.
    Why are rabbits sentimentalised in Taiwan?

    They are simply a common pet, and an animal not eaten.
    My observation, which kicked off quite a discussion, was in response to someone getting grief for eating guinea pig in Peru.
    The point being that all cultures divide animals into pets, food, vermin and indifferent.
    Not always similarly, nor logically.

    Thanks. Is there a rabbit-eating history similar to how traditionally urban Chinese used to keep carp in the back garden for consumption? Compare England and the household pig fed on scraps.

    So a good comparison in some ways might actually be dogs in the UK?
    Horses probably more relevant

    The Brits sentimalise - the French eat them
    And the Swedes. I had cold sliced horse meat on my open sandwich for breakfast this morning.
    I take it your neigh joking?
    You gymkhana beat it.
    Not your mane meal surely?
  • Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    And @MaxPB fpt re LFT testing in Greece.

    Very very easy. You will get the address (google or recommendation from your hotel) of a friendly doctor's practice, you will rock up, they will wave the swab around in the general vicinity of your face and pronounce you fit to fly.

    €25 very badly spent but what can you do. I slightly bridled at the fact that were it positive you would NOT BE ALLOWED TO FLY INTO YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

    Ponder that, @contrarian -haters.

    You are not allowed to fly while having a communicatable disease
    Is the flu a communicable disease?
    In the sense of being notifiable to the public authorities rather than infectious
    So are you allowed to fly while having a communicable disease?
    See @Philip_Thompson at 14:01
    Yes I saw that. Can you post me the bit about not being allowed to fly while having a communicable disease.

    Does this mean that people have never flown or been allowed to fly while they have had the flu?
    Notifiable. Not flu.
    Thanks. Makes sense. Can you provide a link to the law pls.
    Sorry paying clients are higher priority than you
    Maybe Topping could ask BA's PR department what "International Health Regulations" apply?

    Seems pretty clear that some do though. Unless BA are lying.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,798
    Alistair said:

    Just working my way through the implications of the Texas abortion bill.

    As far as I can tell a rapist would now be able to successfully sue anyone involved in his victim's abortion if she chose to get one. Unless there is a specific restriction on that I haven't read about.

    It doesn't matter because no doctor will be willing to carry out the abortion in the first place, their insurers will not let them.
  • Endillion said:

    DavidL said:

    What makes them think that he has done anything in the last 4 months?

    I said six month ago (ish) that Liz Truss was doing more for Britain and for foreign affairs in her role than the actual Foreign Secretary.

    Nothing has changed that opinion.
    Her department described as "Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V" by Whitehall mandarins for the copy and paste continuation deals being touted as new.
    Ignoring the last four words of your post for a minute, isn't that literally her job for the time being? And wasn't part of the argument against Brexit that we wouldn't be able to secure equally attractive terms on our own merits, without the EU's greater buying/negotiating power? In which case she is doing a smashing job in rolling them forwards.
    Sure! We needed to roll over the trade deals we left when we exited the EU. Nobody is saying that she shouldn't be doing this.

    What I think they are referring to is her claim that these are new deals. Whilst they are a new bilateral agreement they are not new trading arrangements. And yet the claim is made repeatedly that they are.
    You mentioned yesterday that you hoped to be selected for the lib dems and I did ask if you would campaign for the union

    I would be interested in your reply
    I don't understand the question. I am a member of a federalist party. I campaigned for them against the SNP government this year. We want to sustain the union by replacing the failed current union with a new written federal UK constitution that both encompasses national parliaments and as much local devolution (to Mayors for example) as people want.

    Will I campaign to preserve the status quo? No. Do I want scottish independence? No. But we WILL end up independent unless the union is made fit for the future. Westminster choosing to expel NI from the free trade zone and telling Scotland their votes count for nothing imperils the whole shebang.
    Provost is the Scottish post.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,798
    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Charles said:

    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    @MattW FPT.
    Why are rabbits sentimentalised in Taiwan?

    They are simply a common pet, and an animal not eaten.
    My observation, which kicked off quite a discussion, was in response to someone getting grief for eating guinea pig in Peru.
    The point being that all cultures divide animals into pets, food, vermin and indifferent.
    Not always similarly, nor logically.

    Thanks. Is there a rabbit-eating history similar to how traditionally urban Chinese used to keep carp in the back garden for consumption? Compare England and the household pig fed on scraps.

    So a good comparison in some ways might actually be dogs in the UK?
    Horses probably more relevant

    The Brits sentimalise - the French eat them
    And the Swedes. I had cold sliced horse meat on my open sandwich for breakfast this morning.
    I take it your neigh joking?
    You gymkhana beat it.
    Not your mane meal surely?
    Nah, he hoove'd to have more than that.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    There seems to be clear logic in @Philip_Thompson 's position: if you are still fearful of covid, despite your vaccination status, you are at liberty to spend all your time in public wearing a FFP3 mask while avoiding anywhere that agitates your fear.

    If you are not fearful, and want to try to live your life as normally as possible, then you are equally at liberty to abandon your mask.

    I fit into the latter group, but realise that some people differ.

    So what? Live and let live.

    Lol - what people may or may not be fearful of is not the issue. Public health is the issue. There are plenty of wazzocks out there denying Covid and some of them win a Darwin Award by dying from it.

    We're in the middle of another big spike of pox that isn't going away. You will of course insist that your government-mandated wayward behaviour has nothing to do with it.
    Big spike? Deaths were down this week compared to the week before and were miniscule. If that's what you're considering a big spike then I'm quite happy to live with it.
    As I said, you may be dismissive, the rest of the world is not. The pandemic (not endemic) is still ripping through the globe, with new variants being created and we know how much they are when we get them.

    We may not be dying by the thousand every day thank God. But we are still a massively infected island, infection rates remain very very high compared to most other countries and its no wonder that we remain on restricted country lists in so many places.
    I couldn't care less.

    The entire planet needs to learn to live with the virus. Of course countries that haven't as successfully handled Covid19 as Britain so are less vaccinated than us will be terrified of Delta letting rip there - if I was in New Zealand or Australia right now it'd be a real concern.

    I'm delighted that we vaccinated ourselves first ahead of the world. The rest of the world needs to catch up with us in learning to live with the virus, that's not a bad thing, its just a sign of our huge success that we got there before them.
    Got it. So our vax rates now lagging behind chunks of Europe is cause for delight, and we are right and the rest of the world is wrong.

    The problem of course is that whilst England can think like that it doesn't mean the rest of the world has to agree and do what we say. We're going to end up getting mandatory quarantine going anywhere off this island at this rate.
    You've become completely irrational, or perhaps hysterical would be a better word.
    Presumably he turns down every invitation to pubs, parties, weddings etc and will refuse to send his children to school when they return next week? Because if not, and his only risk mitigation is wearing a mask in Tesco's, then he is not just hysterical, he is also disingenuous.
    I do love you two. Absolutist extremism at its finest. My kids "went back" 3 weeks ago. My son wears a mask in school as everyone in high school does as we try to contain the schools return spike.
    Odd that you didn't mention the pubs/parties... NFI?
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,213
    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    And @MaxPB fpt re LFT testing in Greece.

    Very very easy. You will get the address (google or recommendation from your hotel) of a friendly doctor's practice, you will rock up, they will wave the swab around in the general vicinity of your face and pronounce you fit to fly.

    €25 very badly spent but what can you do. I slightly bridled at the fact that were it positive you would NOT BE ALLOWED TO FLY INTO YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

    Ponder that, @contrarian -haters.

    You are not allowed to fly while having a communicatable disease
    Is the flu a communicable disease?
    In the sense of being notifiable to the public authorities rather than infectious
    So are you allowed to fly while having a communicable disease?
    See @Philip_Thompson at 14:01
    Yes I saw that. Can you post me the bit about not being allowed to fly while having a communicable disease.

    Does this mean that people have never flown or been allowed to fly while they have had the flu?
    Do you remember the scrape Phillip Lee MP got into when he questioned whether non-UK nationals with HIV should be allowed to enter the UK. He got crucified by the left. I'd have money that those who were critical then are the keenest now to stop UK citizens from returning to their own country with Covid.

    https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2019/09/04/liberal-democrat-phillip-lee-voting-record-same-sex-marriage-hiv-asylum-seekers/
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,952
    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    And @MaxPB fpt re LFT testing in Greece.

    Very very easy. You will get the address (google or recommendation from your hotel) of a friendly doctor's practice, you will rock up, they will wave the swab around in the general vicinity of your face and pronounce you fit to fly.

    €25 very badly spent but what can you do. I slightly bridled at the fact that were it positive you would NOT BE ALLOWED TO FLY INTO YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

    Ponder that, @contrarian -haters.

    You are not allowed to fly while having a communicatable disease
    Is the flu a communicable disease?
    In the sense of being notifiable to the public authorities rather than infectious
    So are you allowed to fly while having a communicable disease?
    See @Philip_Thompson at 14:01
    Yes I saw that. Can you post me the bit about not being allowed to fly while having a communicable disease.

    Does this mean that people have never flown or been allowed to fly while they have had the flu?
    Notifiable. Not flu.
    Thanks. Makes sense. Can you provide a link to the law pls.
    Sorry paying clients are higher priority than you
    Of course they are Charles.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,865
    edited September 2021
    Carnyx said:

    Further on Dunkirk being invoked, or not as the case may be, Mr Reckless seems to think it was an airlift:

    https://twitter.com/MarkReckless/status/1432810200155688966

    Is Biden talking primarily about an airlift or an evacuation? Reckless is more right than his Twitter critics.

    ETA and now Dominic Raab has just described this as the "most challenging" evacuation in living memory!
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    And @MaxPB fpt re LFT testing in Greece.

    Very very easy. You will get the address (google or recommendation from your hotel) of a friendly doctor's practice, you will rock up, they will wave the swab around in the general vicinity of your face and pronounce you fit to fly.

    €25 very badly spent but what can you do. I slightly bridled at the fact that were it positive you would NOT BE ALLOWED TO FLY INTO YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

    Ponder that, @contrarian -haters.

    You are not allowed to fly while having a communicatable disease
    Is the flu a communicable disease?
    In the sense of being notifiable to the public authorities rather than infectious
    So are you allowed to fly while having a communicable disease?
    See @Philip_Thompson at 14:01
    Yes I saw that. Can you post me the bit about not being allowed to fly while having a communicable disease.

    Does this mean that people have never flown or been allowed to fly while they have had the flu?
    Yep, I'm calling BS on that. I have literally sat next to people who obviously have the Common Cold. No hard words from the stewardess as she handed them the balsam tissues.
    I meant notifiable.
    Ah, something of a truism then: it's forbidden to fly with a disease that it is prohibited to fly with.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889

    Endillion said:

    DavidL said:

    What makes them think that he has done anything in the last 4 months?

    I said six month ago (ish) that Liz Truss was doing more for Britain and for foreign affairs in her role than the actual Foreign Secretary.

    Nothing has changed that opinion.
    Her department described as "Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V" by Whitehall mandarins for the copy and paste continuation deals being touted as new.
    Ignoring the last four words of your post for a minute, isn't that literally her job for the time being? And wasn't part of the argument against Brexit that we wouldn't be able to secure equally attractive terms on our own merits, without the EU's greater buying/negotiating power? In which case she is doing a smashing job in rolling them forwards.
    Sure! We needed to roll over the trade deals we left when we exited the EU. Nobody is saying that she shouldn't be doing this.

    What I think they are referring to is her claim that these are new deals. Whilst they are a new bilateral agreement they are not new trading arrangements. And yet the claim is made repeatedly that they are.
    You mentioned yesterday that you hoped to be selected for the lib dems and I did ask if you would campaign for the union

    I would be interested in your reply
    I don't understand the question. I am a member of a federalist party. I campaigned for them against the SNP government this year. We want to sustain the union by replacing the failed current union with a new written federal UK constitution that both encompasses national parliaments and as much local devolution (to Mayors for example) as people want.

    Will I campaign to preserve the status quo? No. Do I want scottish independence? No. But we WILL end up independent unless the union is made fit for the future. Westminster choosing to expel NI from the free trade zone and telling Scotland their votes count for nothing imperils the whole shebang.
    You also voted for Brexit I believe? That meant the only choice was to keep the whole UK in the single market, which would clearly not lead to the migration controls most of your fellow Brexiteers voted for or to impose a hard border in Ireland which would have been even worse.

    Scots voted 55% to stay in the UK in the once in a generation 2014 referendum
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Alistair said:

    Just working my way through the implications of the Texas abortion bill.

    As far as I can tell a rapist would now be able to successfully sue anyone involved in his victim's abortion if she chose to get one. Unless there is a specific restriction on that I haven't read about.

    I’m never convinced it is helpful to good governance to try to pick emotive edge cases.

    From what I’ve read (posting today plus 1 article I googled) it seems like a daft law. But it’s a daft law without coming up with so weird example - in that case the fact that the plaintiff was the rapist doesn’t impact on his right to sue or whether an offence has been committed under the law
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,128
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Charles said:

    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    @MattW FPT.
    Why are rabbits sentimentalised in Taiwan?

    They are simply a common pet, and an animal not eaten.
    My observation, which kicked off quite a discussion, was in response to someone getting grief for eating guinea pig in Peru.
    The point being that all cultures divide animals into pets, food, vermin and indifferent.
    Not always similarly, nor logically.

    Thanks. Is there a rabbit-eating history similar to how traditionally urban Chinese used to keep carp in the back garden for consumption? Compare England and the household pig fed on scraps.

    So a good comparison in some ways might actually be dogs in the UK?
    Horses probably more relevant

    The Brits sentimalise - the French eat them
    And the Swedes. I had cold sliced horse meat on my open sandwich for breakfast this morning.
    I take it your neigh joking?
    You gymkhana beat it.
    What do you have to pony up for that?
    Someone needs some horse sense.
  • HYUFD said:

    Endillion said:

    DavidL said:

    What makes them think that he has done anything in the last 4 months?

    I said six month ago (ish) that Liz Truss was doing more for Britain and for foreign affairs in her role than the actual Foreign Secretary.

    Nothing has changed that opinion.
    Her department described as "Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V" by Whitehall mandarins for the copy and paste continuation deals being touted as new.
    Ignoring the last four words of your post for a minute, isn't that literally her job for the time being? And wasn't part of the argument against Brexit that we wouldn't be able to secure equally attractive terms on our own merits, without the EU's greater buying/negotiating power? In which case she is doing a smashing job in rolling them forwards.
    Sure! We needed to roll over the trade deals we left when we exited the EU. Nobody is saying that she shouldn't be doing this.

    What I think they are referring to is her claim that these are new deals. Whilst they are a new bilateral agreement they are not new trading arrangements. And yet the claim is made repeatedly that they are.
    You mentioned yesterday that you hoped to be selected for the lib dems and I did ask if you would campaign for the union

    I would be interested in your reply
    I don't understand the question. I am a member of a federalist party. I campaigned for them against the SNP government this year. We want to sustain the union by replacing the failed current union with a new written federal UK constitution that both encompasses national parliaments and as much local devolution (to Mayors for example) as people want.

    Will I campaign to preserve the status quo? No. Do I want scottish independence? No. But we WILL end up independent unless the union is made fit for the future. Westminster choosing to expel NI from the free trade zone and telling Scotland their votes count for nothing imperils the whole shebang.
    You also voted for Brexit I believe? That meant the only choice was to keep the whole UK in the single market, which would clearly not lead to the migration controls most of your fellow Brexiteers voted for or to impose a hard border in Ireland which would have been even worse.

    Scots voted 55% to stay in the UK in the once in a generation 2014 referendum
    And lib dem policy is to refuse indyref2
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,952

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    And @MaxPB fpt re LFT testing in Greece.

    Very very easy. You will get the address (google or recommendation from your hotel) of a friendly doctor's practice, you will rock up, they will wave the swab around in the general vicinity of your face and pronounce you fit to fly.

    €25 very badly spent but what can you do. I slightly bridled at the fact that were it positive you would NOT BE ALLOWED TO FLY INTO YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

    Ponder that, @contrarian -haters.

    You are not allowed to fly while having a communicatable disease
    Is the flu a communicable disease?
    In the sense of being notifiable to the public authorities rather than infectious
    So are you allowed to fly while having a communicable disease?
    See @Philip_Thompson at 14:01
    Yes I saw that. Can you post me the bit about not being allowed to fly while having a communicable disease.

    Does this mean that people have never flown or been allowed to fly while they have had the flu?
    Notifiable. Not flu.
    Thanks. Makes sense. Can you provide a link to the law pls.
    Sorry paying clients are higher priority than you
    Maybe Topping could ask BA's PR department what "International Health Regulations" apply?

    Seems pretty clear that some do though. Unless BA are lying.
    I quite fancy doing it although I can't find after a quick google. There is this:

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/22

    Which looks as though it could allow the SoS to make such a provision, but afaics the SoS has not yet made such a provision.

    Charles knows, but he has fucked off as he was in risk of having to back up his claims. Which is of course totally understandable. He "thinks" it is the case, and it might be the case, but he has no idea.

    If I thought I'd get to within a million miles of someone at BA who actually knew I would call them this minute.
  • Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Charles said:

    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    @MattW FPT.
    Why are rabbits sentimentalised in Taiwan?

    They are simply a common pet, and an animal not eaten.
    My observation, which kicked off quite a discussion, was in response to someone getting grief for eating guinea pig in Peru.
    The point being that all cultures divide animals into pets, food, vermin and indifferent.
    Not always similarly, nor logically.

    Thanks. Is there a rabbit-eating history similar to how traditionally urban Chinese used to keep carp in the back garden for consumption? Compare England and the household pig fed on scraps.

    So a good comparison in some ways might actually be dogs in the UK?
    Horses probably more relevant

    The Brits sentimalise - the French eat them
    And the Swedes. I had cold sliced horse meat on my open sandwich for breakfast this morning.
    I take it your neigh joking?
    You gymkhana beat it.
    Not your mane meal surely?
    Naw, ah just hoof it down.
  • Endillion said:

    DavidL said:

    What makes them think that he has done anything in the last 4 months?

    I said six month ago (ish) that Liz Truss was doing more for Britain and for foreign affairs in her role than the actual Foreign Secretary.

    Nothing has changed that opinion.
    Her department described as "Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V" by Whitehall mandarins for the copy and paste continuation deals being touted as new.
    Ignoring the last four words of your post for a minute, isn't that literally her job for the time being? And wasn't part of the argument against Brexit that we wouldn't be able to secure equally attractive terms on our own merits, without the EU's greater buying/negotiating power? In which case she is doing a smashing job in rolling them forwards.
    Sure! We needed to roll over the trade deals we left when we exited the EU. Nobody is saying that she shouldn't be doing this.

    What I think they are referring to is her claim that these are new deals. Whilst they are a new bilateral agreement they are not new trading arrangements. And yet the claim is made repeatedly that they are.
    You mentioned yesterday that you hoped to be selected for the lib dems and I did ask if you would campaign for the union

    I would be interested in your reply
    I don't understand the question. I am a member of a federalist party. I campaigned for them against the SNP government this year. We want to sustain the union by replacing the failed current union with a new written federal UK constitution that both encompasses national parliaments and as much local devolution (to Mayors for example) as people want.

    Will I campaign to preserve the status quo? No. Do I want scottish independence? No. But we WILL end up independent unless the union is made fit for the future. Westminster choosing to expel NI from the free trade zone and telling Scotland their votes count for nothing imperils the whole shebang.
    Seems a complex way of saying you agree with lib dem policy in support of the Union and you will campaign against independence
    Its a simple way to point out that "the union" as you define it - the current constitutional settlement - is not something we support. So no, I will not be campaigning to preserve this union, but for the creation of a new one.
    So will you refuse indyref2
    No! It is the expressed will of the Scottish people! A record turnout in a Holyrood election and a record number of pro-independence MSPs elected in a clear majority.

    To deny indyref2 is to deny democracy - and accelerate Scotland voting to leave.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,952
    Charles said:

    Alistair said:

    Just working my way through the implications of the Texas abortion bill.

    As far as I can tell a rapist would now be able to successfully sue anyone involved in his victim's abortion if she chose to get one. Unless there is a specific restriction on that I haven't read about.

    I’m never convinced it is helpful to good governance to try to pick emotive edge cases.

    From what I’ve read (posting today plus 1 article I googled) it seems like a daft law. But it’s a daft law without coming up with so weird example - in that case the fact that the plaintiff was the rapist doesn’t impact on his right to sue or whether an offence has been committed under the law
    So @Alistair is your paying client?!
  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Charles said:

    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    @MattW FPT.
    Why are rabbits sentimentalised in Taiwan?

    They are simply a common pet, and an animal not eaten.
    My observation, which kicked off quite a discussion, was in response to someone getting grief for eating guinea pig in Peru.
    The point being that all cultures divide animals into pets, food, vermin and indifferent.
    Not always similarly, nor logically.

    Thanks. Is there a rabbit-eating history similar to how traditionally urban Chinese used to keep carp in the back garden for consumption? Compare England and the household pig fed on scraps.

    So a good comparison in some ways might actually be dogs in the UK?
    Horses probably more relevant

    The Brits sentimalise - the French eat them
    And the Swedes. I had cold sliced horse meat on my open sandwich for breakfast this morning.
    I take it your neigh joking?
    You gymkhana beat it.
    What do you have to pony up for that?
    At 22 kronor for 100 grammes, my wallet takes it at a canter.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,798
    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    And @MaxPB fpt re LFT testing in Greece.

    Very very easy. You will get the address (google or recommendation from your hotel) of a friendly doctor's practice, you will rock up, they will wave the swab around in the general vicinity of your face and pronounce you fit to fly.

    €25 very badly spent but what can you do. I slightly bridled at the fact that were it positive you would NOT BE ALLOWED TO FLY INTO YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

    Ponder that, @contrarian -haters.

    You are not allowed to fly while having a communicatable disease
    Is the flu a communicable disease?
    In the sense of being notifiable to the public authorities rather than infectious
    So are you allowed to fly while having a communicable disease?
    See @Philip_Thompson at 14:01
    Yes I saw that. Can you post me the bit about not being allowed to fly while having a communicable disease.

    Does this mean that people have never flown or been allowed to fly while they have had the flu?
    Notifiable. Not flu.
    Thanks. Makes sense. Can you provide a link to the law pls.
    The power to make regulations is under s45B of the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984 which was inserted by s129 of the Health and Social Care Act 2008. There have been subsequent amendments in relation to Covid by the various Acts of that name which make it clear that it is covered.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889
    edited September 2021

    Endillion said:

    DavidL said:

    What makes them think that he has done anything in the last 4 months?

    I said six month ago (ish) that Liz Truss was doing more for Britain and for foreign affairs in her role than the actual Foreign Secretary.

    Nothing has changed that opinion.
    Her department described as "Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V" by Whitehall mandarins for the copy and paste continuation deals being touted as new.
    Ignoring the last four words of your post for a minute, isn't that literally her job for the time being? And wasn't part of the argument against Brexit that we wouldn't be able to secure equally attractive terms on our own merits, without the EU's greater buying/negotiating power? In which case she is doing a smashing job in rolling them forwards.
    Sure! We needed to roll over the trade deals we left when we exited the EU. Nobody is saying that she shouldn't be doing this.

    What I think they are referring to is her claim that these are new deals. Whilst they are a new bilateral agreement they are not new trading arrangements. And yet the claim is made repeatedly that they are.
    You mentioned yesterday that you hoped to be selected for the lib dems and I did ask if you would campaign for the union

    I would be interested in your reply
    I don't understand the question. I am a member of a federalist party. I campaigned for them against the SNP government this year. We want to sustain the union by replacing the failed current union with a new written federal UK constitution that both encompasses national parliaments and as much local devolution (to Mayors for example) as people want.

    Will I campaign to preserve the status quo? No. Do I want scottish independence? No. But we WILL end up independent unless the union is made fit for the future. Westminster choosing to expel NI from the free trade zone and telling Scotland their votes count for nothing imperils the whole shebang.
    Seems a complex way of saying you agree with lib dem policy in support of the Union and you will campaign against independence
    Its a simple way to point out that "the union" as you define it - the current constitutional settlement - is not something we support. So no, I will not be campaigning to preserve this union, but for the creation of a new one.
    So will you refuse indyref2
    No! It is the expressed will of the Scottish people! A record turnout in a Holyrood election and a record number of pro-independence MSPs elected in a clear majority.

    To deny indyref2 is to deny democracy - and accelerate Scotland voting to leave.
    Scottish LD policy is to oppose indyref2, if you are now a LD candidate you are obliged to support LD policy

    https://prod.news.stv.tv/politics/scottish-lib-dems-will-oppose-holding-indyref2-at-any-point?top

    in any case only 35% of Scots want an indyref2 before the end of 2023 as Sturgeon does
    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scots-split-on-snp-mandate-for-referendum-with-independence-top-priority-for-just-one-in-11-3238015
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,174
    Interesting piece on tackling gerrymandering in the US:

    https://tinyurl.com/42783648
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,027
    edited September 2021

    Endillion said:

    DavidL said:

    What makes them think that he has done anything in the last 4 months?

    I said six month ago (ish) that Liz Truss was doing more for Britain and for foreign affairs in her role than the actual Foreign Secretary.

    Nothing has changed that opinion.
    Her department described as "Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V" by Whitehall mandarins for the copy and paste continuation deals being touted as new.
    Ignoring the last four words of your post for a minute, isn't that literally her job for the time being? And wasn't part of the argument against Brexit that we wouldn't be able to secure equally attractive terms on our own merits, without the EU's greater buying/negotiating power? In which case she is doing a smashing job in rolling them forwards.
    Sure! We needed to roll over the trade deals we left when we exited the EU. Nobody is saying that she shouldn't be doing this.

    What I think they are referring to is her claim that these are new deals. Whilst they are a new bilateral agreement they are not new trading arrangements. And yet the claim is made repeatedly that they are.
    You mentioned yesterday that you hoped to be selected for the lib dems and I did ask if you would campaign for the union

    I would be interested in your reply
    I don't understand the question. I am a member of a federalist party. I campaigned for them against the SNP government this year. We want to sustain the union by replacing the failed current union with a new written federal UK constitution that both encompasses national parliaments and as much local devolution (to Mayors for example) as people want.

    Will I campaign to preserve the status quo? No. Do I want scottish independence? No. But we WILL end up independent unless the union is made fit for the future. Westminster choosing to expel NI from the free trade zone and telling Scotland their votes count for nothing imperils the whole shebang.
    Seems a complex way of saying you agree with lib dem policy in support of the Union and you will campaign against independence
    Its a simple way to point out that "the union" as you define it - the current constitutional settlement - is not something we support. So no, I will not be campaigning to preserve this union, but for the creation of a new one.
    So will you refuse indyref2
    No! It is the expressed will of the Scottish people! A record turnout in a Holyrood election and a record number of pro-independence MSPs elected in a clear majority.

    To deny indyref2 is to deny democracy - and accelerate Scotland voting to leave.
    Therefore you cannot stand as a lib dem who oppose indyref2

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-54325592
  • OT just received another phishing email purporting to be from Paypal. "Your PayPal account has been temporarily restricted". If you get one, don't click on it. Sorry about teaching granny to suck eggs.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627
    Stocky said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    And @MaxPB fpt re LFT testing in Greece.

    Very very easy. You will get the address (google or recommendation from your hotel) of a friendly doctor's practice, you will rock up, they will wave the swab around in the general vicinity of your face and pronounce you fit to fly.

    €25 very badly spent but what can you do. I slightly bridled at the fact that were it positive you would NOT BE ALLOWED TO FLY INTO YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

    Ponder that, @contrarian -haters.

    You are not allowed to fly while having a communicatable disease
    Is the flu a communicable disease?
    In the sense of being notifiable to the public authorities rather than infectious
    So are you allowed to fly while having a communicable disease?
    See @Philip_Thompson at 14:01
    Yes I saw that. Can you post me the bit about not being allowed to fly while having a communicable disease.

    Does this mean that people have never flown or been allowed to fly while they have had the flu?
    Do you remember the scrape Phillip Lee MP got into when he questioned whether non-UK nationals with HIV should be allowed to enter the UK. He got crucified by the left. I'd have money that those who were critical then are the keenest now to stop UK citizens from returning to their own country with Covid.

    https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2019/09/04/liberal-democrat-phillip-lee-voting-record-same-sex-marriage-hiv-asylum-seekers/
    Unless having an orgy meeting of the mile high club, an HIV+ person travelling by airline is no hazard to fellow passengers, unlike one with Covid-19.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    And @MaxPB fpt re LFT testing in Greece.

    Very very easy. You will get the address (google or recommendation from your hotel) of a friendly doctor's practice, you will rock up, they will wave the swab around in the general vicinity of your face and pronounce you fit to fly.

    €25 very badly spent but what can you do. I slightly bridled at the fact that were it positive you would NOT BE ALLOWED TO FLY INTO YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

    Ponder that, @contrarian -haters.

    You are not allowed to fly while having a communicatable disease
    Is the flu a communicable disease?
    In the sense of being notifiable to the public authorities rather than infectious
    So are you allowed to fly while having a communicable disease?
    See @Philip_Thompson at 14:01
    Yes I saw that. Can you post me the bit about not being allowed to fly while having a communicable disease.

    Does this mean that people have never flown or been allowed to fly while they have had the flu?
    Yep, I'm calling BS on that. I have literally sat next to people who obviously have the Common Cold. No hard words from the stewardess as she handed them the balsam tissues.
    I meant notifiable.
    Ah, something of a truism then: it's forbidden to fly with a disease that it is prohibited to fly with.
    I was in a hurry so truncated my response

    @topping was all angry that a citizen with a notifiable disease wasn’t allowed to fly to their own country

    I said that they weren’t allowed to fly.

    So it’s not a case of outrageously restricting a citizen’s liberty. It’s a basic principle of public health that applies to everyone
  • HYUFD said:

    Endillion said:

    DavidL said:

    What makes them think that he has done anything in the last 4 months?

    I said six month ago (ish) that Liz Truss was doing more for Britain and for foreign affairs in her role than the actual Foreign Secretary.

    Nothing has changed that opinion.
    Her department described as "Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V" by Whitehall mandarins for the copy and paste continuation deals being touted as new.
    Ignoring the last four words of your post for a minute, isn't that literally her job for the time being? And wasn't part of the argument against Brexit that we wouldn't be able to secure equally attractive terms on our own merits, without the EU's greater buying/negotiating power? In which case she is doing a smashing job in rolling them forwards.
    Sure! We needed to roll over the trade deals we left when we exited the EU. Nobody is saying that she shouldn't be doing this.

    What I think they are referring to is her claim that these are new deals. Whilst they are a new bilateral agreement they are not new trading arrangements. And yet the claim is made repeatedly that they are.
    You mentioned yesterday that you hoped to be selected for the lib dems and I did ask if you would campaign for the union

    I would be interested in your reply
    I don't understand the question. I am a member of a federalist party. I campaigned for them against the SNP government this year. We want to sustain the union by replacing the failed current union with a new written federal UK constitution that both encompasses national parliaments and as much local devolution (to Mayors for example) as people want.

    Will I campaign to preserve the status quo? No. Do I want scottish independence? No. But we WILL end up independent unless the union is made fit for the future. Westminster choosing to expel NI from the free trade zone and telling Scotland their votes count for nothing imperils the whole shebang.
    Seems a complex way of saying you agree with lib dem policy in support of the Union and you will campaign against independence
    Its a simple way to point out that "the union" as you define it - the current constitutional settlement - is not something we support. So no, I will not be campaigning to preserve this union, but for the creation of a new one.
    So will you refuse indyref2
    No! It is the expressed will of the Scottish people! A record turnout in a Holyrood election and a record number of pro-independence MSPs elected in a clear majority.

    To deny indyref2 is to deny democracy - and accelerate Scotland voting to leave.
    Scottish LD policy is to oppose indyref2, if you are now a LD candidate you are obliged to support LD policy

    https://prod.news.stv.tv/politics/scottish-lib-dems-will-oppose-holding-indyref2-at-any-point?top
    Don't be silly. My party is wrong on this subject. And we have a healthy debate on policy issues every year at conference.

    Its hardly like every candidate and elected representative at every level of every party
    wholeheartedly agrees with every policy that party has.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,952
    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    And @MaxPB fpt re LFT testing in Greece.

    Very very easy. You will get the address (google or recommendation from your hotel) of a friendly doctor's practice, you will rock up, they will wave the swab around in the general vicinity of your face and pronounce you fit to fly.

    €25 very badly spent but what can you do. I slightly bridled at the fact that were it positive you would NOT BE ALLOWED TO FLY INTO YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

    Ponder that, @contrarian -haters.

    You are not allowed to fly while having a communicatable disease
    Is the flu a communicable disease?
    In the sense of being notifiable to the public authorities rather than infectious
    So are you allowed to fly while having a communicable disease?
    See @Philip_Thompson at 14:01
    Yes I saw that. Can you post me the bit about not being allowed to fly while having a communicable disease.

    Does this mean that people have never flown or been allowed to fly while they have had the flu?
    Notifiable. Not flu.
    Thanks. Makes sense. Can you provide a link to the law pls.
    The power to make regulations is under s45B of the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984 which was inserted by s129 of the Health and Social Care Act 2008. There have been subsequent amendments in relation to Covid by the various Acts of that name which make it clear that it is covered.
    Thanks. Charles said that you are not allowed to fly if you have a "communicable disease". I was looking for the specific ordinance that states that. I found this which looks for all the world like it would provide the SoS with the powers to do so.

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/22

    On the government website it says "You must have proof of a negative COVID-19 test to travel to England from abroad." but I wondered what the context of it was.

    Because if the flu is a notifiable disease as per @Carnyx's link then we have never been in a position whereby a notifiable disease has prevented entry to this country before.
  • HYUFD said:

    Endillion said:

    DavidL said:

    What makes them think that he has done anything in the last 4 months?

    I said six month ago (ish) that Liz Truss was doing more for Britain and for foreign affairs in her role than the actual Foreign Secretary.

    Nothing has changed that opinion.
    Her department described as "Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V" by Whitehall mandarins for the copy and paste continuation deals being touted as new.
    Ignoring the last four words of your post for a minute, isn't that literally her job for the time being? And wasn't part of the argument against Brexit that we wouldn't be able to secure equally attractive terms on our own merits, without the EU's greater buying/negotiating power? In which case she is doing a smashing job in rolling them forwards.
    Sure! We needed to roll over the trade deals we left when we exited the EU. Nobody is saying that she shouldn't be doing this.

    What I think they are referring to is her claim that these are new deals. Whilst they are a new bilateral agreement they are not new trading arrangements. And yet the claim is made repeatedly that they are.
    You mentioned yesterday that you hoped to be selected for the lib dems and I did ask if you would campaign for the union

    I would be interested in your reply
    I don't understand the question. I am a member of a federalist party. I campaigned for them against the SNP government this year. We want to sustain the union by replacing the failed current union with a new written federal UK constitution that both encompasses national parliaments and as much local devolution (to Mayors for example) as people want.

    Will I campaign to preserve the status quo? No. Do I want scottish independence? No. But we WILL end up independent unless the union is made fit for the future. Westminster choosing to expel NI from the free trade zone and telling Scotland their votes count for nothing imperils the whole shebang.
    Seems a complex way of saying you agree with lib dem policy in support of the Union and you will campaign against independence
    Its a simple way to point out that "the union" as you define it - the current constitutional settlement - is not something we support. So no, I will not be campaigning to preserve this union, but for the creation of a new one.
    So will you refuse indyref2
    No! It is the expressed will of the Scottish people! A record turnout in a Holyrood election and a record number of pro-independence MSPs elected in a clear majority.

    To deny indyref2 is to deny democracy - and accelerate Scotland voting to leave.
    Scottish LD policy is to oppose indyref2, if you are now a LD candidate you are obliged to support LD policy

    https://prod.news.stv.tv/politics/scottish-lib-dems-will-oppose-holding-indyref2-at-any-point?top
    Don't be silly. My party is wrong on this subject. And we have a healthy debate on policy issues every year at conference.

    Its hardly like every candidate and elected representative at every level of every party
    wholeheartedly agrees with every policy that party has.
    Are you really saying on something as important as this you will stand as a lib dem in direct opposition to their stated policy
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889
    edited September 2021

    HYUFD said:

    Endillion said:

    DavidL said:

    What makes them think that he has done anything in the last 4 months?

    I said six month ago (ish) that Liz Truss was doing more for Britain and for foreign affairs in her role than the actual Foreign Secretary.

    Nothing has changed that opinion.
    Her department described as "Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V" by Whitehall mandarins for the copy and paste continuation deals being touted as new.
    Ignoring the last four words of your post for a minute, isn't that literally her job for the time being? And wasn't part of the argument against Brexit that we wouldn't be able to secure equally attractive terms on our own merits, without the EU's greater buying/negotiating power? In which case she is doing a smashing job in rolling them forwards.
    Sure! We needed to roll over the trade deals we left when we exited the EU. Nobody is saying that she shouldn't be doing this.

    What I think they are referring to is her claim that these are new deals. Whilst they are a new bilateral agreement they are not new trading arrangements. And yet the claim is made repeatedly that they are.
    You mentioned yesterday that you hoped to be selected for the lib dems and I did ask if you would campaign for the union

    I would be interested in your reply
    I don't understand the question. I am a member of a federalist party. I campaigned for them against the SNP government this year. We want to sustain the union by replacing the failed current union with a new written federal UK constitution that both encompasses national parliaments and as much local devolution (to Mayors for example) as people want.

    Will I campaign to preserve the status quo? No. Do I want scottish independence? No. But we WILL end up independent unless the union is made fit for the future. Westminster choosing to expel NI from the free trade zone and telling Scotland their votes count for nothing imperils the whole shebang.
    Seems a complex way of saying you agree with lib dem policy in support of the Union and you will campaign against independence
    Its a simple way to point out that "the union" as you define it - the current constitutional settlement - is not something we support. So no, I will not be campaigning to preserve this union, but for the creation of a new one.
    So will you refuse indyref2
    No! It is the expressed will of the Scottish people! A record turnout in a Holyrood election and a record number of pro-independence MSPs elected in a clear majority.

    To deny indyref2 is to deny democracy - and accelerate Scotland voting to leave.
    Scottish LD policy is to oppose indyref2, if you are now a LD candidate you are obliged to support LD policy

    https://prod.news.stv.tv/politics/scottish-lib-dems-will-oppose-holding-indyref2-at-any-point?top
    Don't be silly. My party is wrong on this subject. And we have a healthy debate on policy issues every year at conference.

    Its hardly like every candidate and elected representative at every level of every party
    wholeheartedly agrees with every policy that party has.
    If you stand for election under a party label you should support that party's manifesto otherwise you are confusing voters
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,950
    edited September 2021
    I wonder why Tory Yoons in a far away country of which we know far too fecking much are telling an LD who actually lives in Scotland what he can and can't support? Weird.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,128
    Brains Trust:

    I'm on the lookout for a compact digital or mirrorless camera which has a reasonable performance for architecture, and particularly in low light.

    Does anyone have any recommendations?

    Budget is really what it needs to be, but I'm keen to stay some way below £1000 if I can.

    Thanks
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,174
    edited September 2021
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Endillion said:

    DavidL said:

    What makes them think that he has done anything in the last 4 months?

    I said six month ago (ish) that Liz Truss was doing more for Britain and for foreign affairs in her role than the actual Foreign Secretary.

    Nothing has changed that opinion.
    Her department described as "Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V" by Whitehall mandarins for the copy and paste continuation deals being touted as new.
    Ignoring the last four words of your post for a minute, isn't that literally her job for the time being? And wasn't part of the argument against Brexit that we wouldn't be able to secure equally attractive terms on our own merits, without the EU's greater buying/negotiating power? In which case she is doing a smashing job in rolling them forwards.
    Sure! We needed to roll over the trade deals we left when we exited the EU. Nobody is saying that she shouldn't be doing this.

    What I think they are referring to is her claim that these are new deals. Whilst they are a new bilateral agreement they are not new trading arrangements. And yet the claim is made repeatedly that they are.
    You mentioned yesterday that you hoped to be selected for the lib dems and I did ask if you would campaign for the union

    I would be interested in your reply
    I don't understand the question. I am a member of a federalist party. I campaigned for them against the SNP government this year. We want to sustain the union by replacing the failed current union with a new written federal UK constitution that both encompasses national parliaments and as much local devolution (to Mayors for example) as people want.

    Will I campaign to preserve the status quo? No. Do I want scottish independence? No. But we WILL end up independent unless the union is made fit for the future. Westminster choosing to expel NI from the free trade zone and telling Scotland their votes count for nothing imperils the whole shebang.
    Seems a complex way of saying you agree with lib dem policy in support of the Union and you will campaign against independence
    Its a simple way to point out that "the union" as you define it - the current constitutional settlement - is not something we support. So no, I will not be campaigning to preserve this union, but for the creation of a new one.
    So will you refuse indyref2
    No! It is the expressed will of the Scottish people! A record turnout in a Holyrood election and a record number of pro-independence MSPs elected in a clear majority.

    To deny indyref2 is to deny democracy - and accelerate Scotland voting to leave.
    Scottish LD policy is to oppose indyref2, if you are now a LD candidate you are obliged to support LD policy

    https://prod.news.stv.tv/politics/scottish-lib-dems-will-oppose-holding-indyref2-at-any-point?top
    Don't be silly. My party is wrong on this subject. And we have a healthy debate on policy issues every year at conference.

    Its hardly like every candidate and elected representative at every level of every party
    wholeheartedly agrees with every policy that party has.
    If you stand on a party ticket you should support that party's manifesto otherwise you are confusing voters
    Do you agree with every aspect of the Conservative manifesto ?

    He can hardly join the SNP being a unionist and all that.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,952
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    And @MaxPB fpt re LFT testing in Greece.

    Very very easy. You will get the address (google or recommendation from your hotel) of a friendly doctor's practice, you will rock up, they will wave the swab around in the general vicinity of your face and pronounce you fit to fly.

    €25 very badly spent but what can you do. I slightly bridled at the fact that were it positive you would NOT BE ALLOWED TO FLY INTO YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

    Ponder that, @contrarian -haters.

    You are not allowed to fly while having a communicatable disease
    Is the flu a communicable disease?
    In the sense of being notifiable to the public authorities rather than infectious
    So are you allowed to fly while having a communicable disease?
    See @Philip_Thompson at 14:01
    Yes I saw that. Can you post me the bit about not being allowed to fly while having a communicable disease.

    Does this mean that people have never flown or been allowed to fly while they have had the flu?
    Yep, I'm calling BS on that. I have literally sat next to people who obviously have the Common Cold. No hard words from the stewardess as she handed them the balsam tissues.
    I meant notifiable.
    Ah, something of a truism then: it's forbidden to fly with a disease that it is prohibited to fly with.
    I was in a hurry so truncated my response

    @topping was all angry that a citizen with a notifiable disease wasn’t allowed to fly to their own country

    I said that they weren’t allowed to fly.

    So it’s not a case of outrageously restricting a citizen’s liberty. It’s a basic principle of public health that applies to everyone
    Charles I just can't find the legislation which says people with a notifiable disease (you of course said "communicable" previously) are not allowed to fly. Not in the "International Health Regulations" or anywhere. But I am a limited googler so I thought you might know as you did after all state it to start with, and with your usual authority.

    On Covid the government says explicitly you need a negative test to enter the UK.

    I just thought this was unprecendented. I have never heard of people being refused entry to a country but I look forward to a blessed link which shows I am wrong.

    Wouldn't be the first time.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,027
    edited September 2021

    I wonder why Yoons in a far away country of which we know far too fecking much are telling an LD who actually lives in Scotland what he can and can't support? Weird.

    There is nothing weird about commenting on a candidate standing for election in direct contravention of the party's line
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    Alistair said:

    Just working my way through the implications of the Texas abortion bill.

    As far as I can tell a rapist would now be able to successfully sue anyone involved in his victim's abortion if she chose to get one. Unless there is a specific restriction on that I haven't read about.

    And even if they lost, a successful defendant would still be liable for their own costs.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Scotland 6,170 cases.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,798
    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    And @MaxPB fpt re LFT testing in Greece.

    Very very easy. You will get the address (google or recommendation from your hotel) of a friendly doctor's practice, you will rock up, they will wave the swab around in the general vicinity of your face and pronounce you fit to fly.

    €25 very badly spent but what can you do. I slightly bridled at the fact that were it positive you would NOT BE ALLOWED TO FLY INTO YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

    Ponder that, @contrarian -haters.

    You are not allowed to fly while having a communicatable disease
    Is the flu a communicable disease?
    In the sense of being notifiable to the public authorities rather than infectious
    So are you allowed to fly while having a communicable disease?
    See @Philip_Thompson at 14:01
    Yes I saw that. Can you post me the bit about not being allowed to fly while having a communicable disease.

    Does this mean that people have never flown or been allowed to fly while they have had the flu?
    Notifiable. Not flu.
    Thanks. Makes sense. Can you provide a link to the law pls.
    The power to make regulations is under s45B of the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984 which was inserted by s129 of the Health and Social Care Act 2008. There have been subsequent amendments in relation to Covid by the various Acts of that name which make it clear that it is covered.
    Thanks. Charles said that you are not allowed to fly if you have a "communicable disease". I was looking for the specific ordinance that states that. I found this which looks for all the world like it would provide the SoS with the powers to do so.

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/22

    On the government website it says "You must have proof of a negative COVID-19 test to travel to England from abroad." but I wondered what the context of it was.

    Because if the flu is a notifiable disease as per @Carnyx's link then we have never been in a position whereby a notifiable disease has prevented entry to this country before.
    45B Health protection regulations: international travel etc.
    (1) The appropriate Minister may by regulations make provision–
    (a) for preventing danger to public health from vessels, aircraft, trains or other conveyances arriving at any place,
    (b) for preventing the spread of infection or contamination by means of any vessel, aircraft, train or other conveyance leaving any place, and
    (c) for giving effect to any international agreement or arrangement relating to the spread of infection or contamination.
    (2) Regulations under subsection (1) may in particular include provision–
    (a) for the detention of conveyances,
    (b) for the medical examination, detention, isolation or quarantine of persons,
    (c) for the inspection, analysis, retention, isolation, quarantine or destruction of things,
    (d) for the disinfection or decontamination of conveyances, persons or things or the application of other sanitary measures,
    (e) for prohibiting or regulating the arrival or departure of conveyances and the entry or exit of persons or things,
    (f) imposing duties on masters, pilots, train managers and other persons on board conveyances and on owners and managers of ports, airports and other points of entry, and
    (g) requiring persons to provide information or answer questions (including information or questions relating to their health).

    That is at least one power to put these sort of restrictions in. Its probably not the only one.
  • tlg86 said:

    Interesting piece on tackling gerrymandering in the US:

    https://tinyurl.com/42783648

    It would be interesting to see those tools run here! I am not sure I share the authors' optimism. It may be these new tools will be used to advance gerrymandering rather than to oppose it, as the authors note is what happened to the commercial package.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Endillion said:

    DavidL said:

    What makes them think that he has done anything in the last 4 months?

    I said six month ago (ish) that Liz Truss was doing more for Britain and for foreign affairs in her role than the actual Foreign Secretary.

    Nothing has changed that opinion.
    Her department described as "Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V" by Whitehall mandarins for the copy and paste continuation deals being touted as new.
    Ignoring the last four words of your post for a minute, isn't that literally her job for the time being? And wasn't part of the argument against Brexit that we wouldn't be able to secure equally attractive terms on our own merits, without the EU's greater buying/negotiating power? In which case she is doing a smashing job in rolling them forwards.
    Sure! We needed to roll over the trade deals we left when we exited the EU. Nobody is saying that she shouldn't be doing this.

    What I think they are referring to is her claim that these are new deals. Whilst they are a new bilateral agreement they are not new trading arrangements. And yet the claim is made repeatedly that they are.
    You mentioned yesterday that you hoped to be selected for the lib dems and I did ask if you would campaign for the union

    I would be interested in your reply
    I don't understand the question. I am a member of a federalist party. I campaigned for them against the SNP government this year. We want to sustain the union by replacing the failed current union with a new written federal UK constitution that both encompasses national parliaments and as much local devolution (to Mayors for example) as people want.

    Will I campaign to preserve the status quo? No. Do I want scottish independence? No. But we WILL end up independent unless the union is made fit for the future. Westminster choosing to expel NI from the free trade zone and telling Scotland their votes count for nothing imperils the whole shebang.
    Seems a complex way of saying you agree with lib dem policy in support of the Union and you will campaign against independence
    Its a simple way to point out that "the union" as you define it - the current constitutional settlement - is not something we support. So no, I will not be campaigning to preserve this union, but for the creation of a new one.
    So will you refuse indyref2
    No! It is the expressed will of the Scottish people! A record turnout in a Holyrood election and a record number of pro-independence MSPs elected in a clear majority.

    To deny indyref2 is to deny democracy - and accelerate Scotland voting to leave.
    Scottish LD policy is to oppose indyref2, if you are now a LD candidate you are obliged to support LD policy

    https://prod.news.stv.tv/politics/scottish-lib-dems-will-oppose-holding-indyref2-at-any-point?top
    Don't be silly. My party is wrong on this subject. And we have a healthy debate on policy issues every year at conference.

    Its hardly like every candidate and elected representative at every level of every party
    wholeheartedly agrees with every policy that party has.
    If you stand on a party ticket you should support that party's manifesto otherwise you are confusing voters
    Do you agree with every aspect of the Conservative manifesto ?

    He can hardly join the SNP being a unionist and all that.
    Well, look at Ms Baillie - IIRC she's very keen on nukes at Faslane yet that is against Slab policy. And as my Scottish colleagues and I have pointed out, Slab can be a bit apt to urge voting for Tories. I seem to remember that HYUFD supports voting for Labour and LD in Scotland to keep the SNP out, which again is hardly party policy.
  • Listening to Raab at the committee is a great way to nod off
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    Colin Pitchfork has been released. The first person in the world to be convicted using DNA evidence.
  • HYUFD said:

    If you stand for election under a party label you should support that party's manifesto otherwise you are confusing voters

    We won't have a "manifesto". Nor does the federal party currently have a manifesto as the election was 2 years ago under a previous leader. Are Labour people now bound by the witterings of Corbyn?

    The Scottish government will propose a referendum, LibDem MSPs will vote against it, the government will win the vote. What would that have to with county councillors? My opinion on the matter is irrelevant - and again you show me a politician who has zero disagreement with the entire policy platform and I will point out that they are lying.

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,952
    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    And @MaxPB fpt re LFT testing in Greece.

    Very very easy. You will get the address (google or recommendation from your hotel) of a friendly doctor's practice, you will rock up, they will wave the swab around in the general vicinity of your face and pronounce you fit to fly.

    €25 very badly spent but what can you do. I slightly bridled at the fact that were it positive you would NOT BE ALLOWED TO FLY INTO YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

    Ponder that, @contrarian -haters.

    You are not allowed to fly while having a communicatable disease
    Is the flu a communicable disease?
    In the sense of being notifiable to the public authorities rather than infectious
    So are you allowed to fly while having a communicable disease?
    See @Philip_Thompson at 14:01
    Yes I saw that. Can you post me the bit about not being allowed to fly while having a communicable disease.

    Does this mean that people have never flown or been allowed to fly while they have had the flu?
    Notifiable. Not flu.
    Thanks. Makes sense. Can you provide a link to the law pls.
    The power to make regulations is under s45B of the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984 which was inserted by s129 of the Health and Social Care Act 2008. There have been subsequent amendments in relation to Covid by the various Acts of that name which make it clear that it is covered.
    Thanks. Charles said that you are not allowed to fly if you have a "communicable disease". I was looking for the specific ordinance that states that. I found this which looks for all the world like it would provide the SoS with the powers to do so.

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/22

    On the government website it says "You must have proof of a negative COVID-19 test to travel to England from abroad." but I wondered what the context of it was.

    Because if the flu is a notifiable disease as per @Carnyx's link then we have never been in a position whereby a notifiable disease has prevented entry to this country before.
    45B Health protection regulations: international travel etc.
    (1) The appropriate Minister may by regulations make provision–
    (a) for preventing danger to public health from vessels, aircraft, trains or other conveyances arriving at any place,
    (b) for preventing the spread of infection or contamination by means of any vessel, aircraft, train or other conveyance leaving any place, and
    (c) for giving effect to any international agreement or arrangement relating to the spread of infection or contamination.
    (2) Regulations under subsection (1) may in particular include provision–
    (a) for the detention of conveyances,
    (b) for the medical examination, detention, isolation or quarantine of persons,
    (c) for the inspection, analysis, retention, isolation, quarantine or destruction of things,
    (d) for the disinfection or decontamination of conveyances, persons or things or the application of other sanitary measures,
    (e) for prohibiting or regulating the arrival or departure of conveyances and the entry or exit of persons or things,
    (f) imposing duties on masters, pilots, train managers and other persons on board conveyances and on owners and managers of ports, airports and other points of entry, and
    (g) requiring persons to provide information or answer questions (including information or questions relating to their health).

    That is at least one power to put these sort of restrictions in. Its probably not the only one.
    Yes I saw that. Has he done any of them previously or indeed now? ie is there a regulation to this effect in place now? Has there been previously?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889
    Carnyx said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Endillion said:

    DavidL said:

    What makes them think that he has done anything in the last 4 months?

    I said six month ago (ish) that Liz Truss was doing more for Britain and for foreign affairs in her role than the actual Foreign Secretary.

    Nothing has changed that opinion.
    Her department described as "Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V" by Whitehall mandarins for the copy and paste continuation deals being touted as new.
    Ignoring the last four words of your post for a minute, isn't that literally her job for the time being? And wasn't part of the argument against Brexit that we wouldn't be able to secure equally attractive terms on our own merits, without the EU's greater buying/negotiating power? In which case she is doing a smashing job in rolling them forwards.
    Sure! We needed to roll over the trade deals we left when we exited the EU. Nobody is saying that she shouldn't be doing this.

    What I think they are referring to is her claim that these are new deals. Whilst they are a new bilateral agreement they are not new trading arrangements. And yet the claim is made repeatedly that they are.
    You mentioned yesterday that you hoped to be selected for the lib dems and I did ask if you would campaign for the union

    I would be interested in your reply
    I don't understand the question. I am a member of a federalist party. I campaigned for them against the SNP government this year. We want to sustain the union by replacing the failed current union with a new written federal UK constitution that both encompasses national parliaments and as much local devolution (to Mayors for example) as people want.

    Will I campaign to preserve the status quo? No. Do I want scottish independence? No. But we WILL end up independent unless the union is made fit for the future. Westminster choosing to expel NI from the free trade zone and telling Scotland their votes count for nothing imperils the whole shebang.
    Seems a complex way of saying you agree with lib dem policy in support of the Union and you will campaign against independence
    Its a simple way to point out that "the union" as you define it - the current constitutional settlement - is not something we support. So no, I will not be campaigning to preserve this union, but for the creation of a new one.
    So will you refuse indyref2
    No! It is the expressed will of the Scottish people! A record turnout in a Holyrood election and a record number of pro-independence MSPs elected in a clear majority.

    To deny indyref2 is to deny democracy - and accelerate Scotland voting to leave.
    Scottish LD policy is to oppose indyref2, if you are now a LD candidate you are obliged to support LD policy

    https://prod.news.stv.tv/politics/scottish-lib-dems-will-oppose-holding-indyref2-at-any-point?top
    Don't be silly. My party is wrong on this subject. And we have a healthy debate on policy issues every year at conference.

    Its hardly like every candidate and elected representative at every level of every party
    wholeheartedly agrees with every policy that party has.
    If you stand on a party ticket you should support that party's manifesto otherwise you are confusing voters
    Do you agree with every aspect of the Conservative manifesto ?

    He can hardly join the SNP being a unionist and all that.
    Well, look at Ms Baillie - IIRC she's very keen on nukes at Faslane yet that is against Slab policy. And as my Scottish colleagues and I have pointed out, Slab can be a bit apt to urge voting for Tories. I seem to remember that HYUFD supports voting for Labour and LD in Scotland to keep the SNP out, which again is hardly party policy.
    Scottish Labour has reversed its opposition to nuclear weapons, certainly at UK level
    https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2019/11/26/scottish-labour-ditches-opposition-to-trident-renewal-for-uk-election/

    If I am elected as a Tory I will vote for and implement the Tory manifesto, tactical voting as the best means to preserve the Union, which is Tory policy does not change that
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    And @MaxPB fpt re LFT testing in Greece.

    Very very easy. You will get the address (google or recommendation from your hotel) of a friendly doctor's practice, you will rock up, they will wave the swab around in the general vicinity of your face and pronounce you fit to fly.

    €25 very badly spent but what can you do. I slightly bridled at the fact that were it positive you would NOT BE ALLOWED TO FLY INTO YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

    Ponder that, @contrarian -haters.

    You are not allowed to fly while having a communicatable disease
    Is the flu a communicable disease?
    In the sense of being notifiable to the public authorities rather than infectious
    So are you allowed to fly while having a communicable disease?
    See @Philip_Thompson at 14:01
    Yes I saw that. Can you post me the bit about not being allowed to fly while having a communicable disease.

    Does this mean that people have never flown or been allowed to fly while they have had the flu?
    Yep, I'm calling BS on that. I have literally sat next to people who obviously have the Common Cold. No hard words from the stewardess as she handed them the balsam tissues.
    I meant notifiable.
    Ah, something of a truism then: it's forbidden to fly with a disease that it is prohibited to fly with.
    I was in a hurry so truncated my response

    @topping was all angry that a citizen with a notifiable disease wasn’t allowed to fly to their own country

    I said that they weren’t allowed to fly.

    So it’s not a case of outrageously restricting a citizen’s liberty. It’s a basic principle of public health that applies to everyone
    Charles I just can't find the legislation which says people with a notifiable disease (you of course said "communicable" previously) are not allowed to fly. Not in the "International Health Regulations" or anywhere. But I am a limited googler so I thought you might know as you did after all state it to start with, and with your usual authority.

    On Covid the government says explicitly you need a negative test to enter the UK.

    I just thought this was unprecendented. I have never heard of people being refused entry to a country but I look forward to a blessed link which shows I am wrong.

    Wouldn't be the first time.
    Yellow fever, pratique, etc. Plenty of precedent. Highly relevant to covid, at least in some states: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Princess
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,417

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Charles said:

    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    @MattW FPT.
    Why are rabbits sentimentalised in Taiwan?

    They are simply a common pet, and an animal not eaten.
    My observation, which kicked off quite a discussion, was in response to someone getting grief for eating guinea pig in Peru.
    The point being that all cultures divide animals into pets, food, vermin and indifferent.
    Not always similarly, nor logically.

    Thanks. Is there a rabbit-eating history similar to how traditionally urban Chinese used to keep carp in the back garden for consumption? Compare England and the household pig fed on scraps.

    So a good comparison in some ways might actually be dogs in the UK?
    Horses probably more relevant

    The Brits sentimalise - the French eat them
    And the Swedes. I had cold sliced horse meat on my open sandwich for breakfast this morning.
    I take it your neigh joking?
    You gymkhana beat it.
    What do you have to pony up for that?
    At 22 kronor for 100 grammes, my wallet takes it at a canter.
    Can't we rein in this discussion?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129
    MaxPB said:

    There seems to be clear logic in @Philip_Thompson 's position: if you are still fearful of covid, despite your vaccination status, you are at liberty to spend all your time in public wearing a FFP3 mask while avoiding anywhere that agitates your fear.

    If you are not fearful, and want to try to live your life as normally as possible, then you are equally at liberty to abandon your mask.

    I fit into the latter group, but realise that some people differ.

    So what? Live and let live.

    Lol - what people may or may not be fearful of is not the issue. Public health is the issue. There are plenty of wazzocks out there denying Covid and some of them win a Darwin Award by dying from it.

    We're in the middle of another big spike of pox that isn't going away. You will of course insist that your government-mandated wayward behaviour has nothing to do with it.
    Big spike? Deaths were down this week compared to the week before and were miniscule. If that's what you're considering a big spike then I'm quite happy to live with it.
    As I said, you may be dismissive, the rest of the world is not. The pandemic (not endemic) is still ripping through the globe, with new variants being created and we know how much they are when we get them.

    We may not be dying by the thousand every day thank God. But we are still a massively infected island, infection rates remain very very high compared to most other countries and its no wonder that we remain on restricted country lists in so many places.
    I couldn't care less.

    The entire planet needs to learn to live with the virus. Of course countries that haven't as successfully handled Covid19 as Britain so are less vaccinated than us will be terrified of Delta letting rip there - if I was in New Zealand or Australia right now it'd be a real concern.

    I'm delighted that we vaccinated ourselves first ahead of the world. The rest of the world needs to catch up with us in learning to live with the virus, that's not a bad thing, its just a sign of our huge success that we got there before them.
    Got it. So our vax rates now lagging behind chunks of Europe is cause for delight, and we are right and the rest of the world is wrong.

    The problem of course is that whilst England can think like that it doesn't mean the rest of the world has to agree and do what we say. We're going to end up getting mandatory quarantine going anywhere off this island at this rate.
    That's only because most European countries are using the sleight of hand on measurement of what being vaccinated actually is. We count people with two doses as fully vaccinated, in most of Europe a prior infection and a single jab counts as being fully vaccinated.
    Given that one dose plus an infection seems to confer greater immunity to Delta than "double dosed", I'm struggling to see a sleight of hand here. It sounds - just like our extending of the period between doses - as a very sensible way of rationing scarce vaccine resources, and maximising protection.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098
    malcolmg said:

    TOPPING said:

    Berating Raab is just people using him as a proxy for the US actions of the past 60 20 years.

    It achieved nothing, he couldn't have achieved much on his own, but makes everyone feel better for no noticeable gain.

    He could at least have pretended he was was on the job , rather than lying on a beach and saying FU Afghans
    This is more it for me. Dominic Raab was never going to be a major player as regards how and when Kabul fell to the Taliban, but you'd have liked to see some effort on the margins.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,174
    edited September 2021

    HYUFD said:

    If you stand for election under a party label you should support that party's manifesto otherwise you are confusing voters

    We won't have a "manifesto". Nor does the federal party currently have a manifesto as the election was 2 years ago under a previous leader. Are Labour people now bound by the witterings of Corbyn?

    The Scottish government will propose a referendum, LibDem MSPs will vote against it, the government will win the vote. What would that have to with county councillors? My opinion on the matter is irrelevant - and again you show me a politician who has zero disagreement with the entire policy platform and I will point out that they are lying.

    It's one thing to vote against proposing a referendum. It's quite another to still oppose that referendum after the vote by the Scottish Parliament has been passed.
    I wonder if SLAB or SLID (The Tories won't) will pivot at that stage. Because once that point has been crossed it's less arguing against an indy ref, more arguing against devolved democracy itself.
  • Raab - all those named in the documents found at the embassy are now in the UK and safe
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Endillion said:

    DavidL said:

    What makes them think that he has done anything in the last 4 months?

    I said six month ago (ish) that Liz Truss was doing more for Britain and for foreign affairs in her role than the actual Foreign Secretary.

    Nothing has changed that opinion.
    Her department described as "Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V" by Whitehall mandarins for the copy and paste continuation deals being touted as new.
    Ignoring the last four words of your post for a minute, isn't that literally her job for the time being? And wasn't part of the argument against Brexit that we wouldn't be able to secure equally attractive terms on our own merits, without the EU's greater buying/negotiating power? In which case she is doing a smashing job in rolling them forwards.
    Sure! We needed to roll over the trade deals we left when we exited the EU. Nobody is saying that she shouldn't be doing this.

    What I think they are referring to is her claim that these are new deals. Whilst they are a new bilateral agreement they are not new trading arrangements. And yet the claim is made repeatedly that they are.
    You mentioned yesterday that you hoped to be selected for the lib dems and I did ask if you would campaign for the union

    I would be interested in your reply
    I don't understand the question. I am a member of a federalist party. I campaigned for them against the SNP government this year. We want to sustain the union by replacing the failed current union with a new written federal UK constitution that both encompasses national parliaments and as much local devolution (to Mayors for example) as people want.

    Will I campaign to preserve the status quo? No. Do I want scottish independence? No. But we WILL end up independent unless the union is made fit for the future. Westminster choosing to expel NI from the free trade zone and telling Scotland their votes count for nothing imperils the whole shebang.
    Seems a complex way of saying you agree with lib dem policy in support of the Union and you will campaign against independence
    Its a simple way to point out that "the union" as you define it - the current constitutional settlement - is not something we support. So no, I will not be campaigning to preserve this union, but for the creation of a new one.
    So will you refuse indyref2
    No! It is the expressed will of the Scottish people! A record turnout in a Holyrood election and a record number of pro-independence MSPs elected in a clear majority.

    To deny indyref2 is to deny democracy - and accelerate Scotland voting to leave.
    Scottish LD policy is to oppose indyref2, if you are now a LD candidate you are obliged to support LD policy

    https://prod.news.stv.tv/politics/scottish-lib-dems-will-oppose-holding-indyref2-at-any-point?top
    Don't be silly. My party is wrong on this subject. And we have a healthy debate on policy issues every year at conference.

    Its hardly like every candidate and elected representative at every level of every party
    wholeheartedly agrees with every policy that party has.
    If you stand on a party ticket you should support that party's manifesto otherwise you are confusing voters
    Do you agree with every aspect of the Conservative manifesto ?

    He can hardly join the SNP being a unionist and all that.
    Well, look at Ms Baillie - IIRC she's very keen on nukes at Faslane yet that is against Slab policy. And as my Scottish colleagues and I have pointed out, Slab can be a bit apt to urge voting for Tories. I seem to remember that HYUFD supports voting for Labour and LD in Scotland to keep the SNP out, which again is hardly party policy.
    Scottish Labour has reversed its opposition to nuclear weapons, certainly at UK level
    https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2019/11/26/scottish-labour-ditches-opposition-to-trident-renewal-for-uk-election/

    If I am elected as a Tory I will vote for and implement the Tory manifesto, tactical voting as the best means to preserve the Union, which is Tory policy does not change that
    "Scottish Labour has reversed its opposition to nuclear weapons, certainly at UK level"

    If you don't see what's wrong with that ...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889
    edited September 2021

    HYUFD said:

    If you stand for election under a party label you should support that party's manifesto otherwise you are confusing voters

    We won't have a "manifesto". Nor does the federal party currently have a manifesto as the election was 2 years ago under a previous leader. Are Labour people now bound by the witterings of Corbyn?

    The Scottish government will propose a referendum, LibDem MSPs will vote against it, the government will win the vote. What would that have to with county councillors? My opinion on the matter is irrelevant - and again you show me a politician who has zero disagreement with the entire policy platform and I will point out that they are lying.

    If you do get away with it it will be because you are a candidate for local council only, if you wanted to stand for MSP or MP then obviously you would have to support the party line and vote against indyref2.

    In the same way we still have a few Tory councillors who oppose Brexit who would not be able to stand for Parliament now on that basis
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627
    MattW said:

    Brains Trust:

    I'm on the lookout for a compact digital or mirrorless camera which has a reasonable performance for architecture, and particularly in low light.

    Does anyone have any recommendations?

    Budget is really what it needs to be, but I'm keen to stay some way below £1000 if I can.

    Thanks

    I have a Panasonic TZ100 which is excellent in low light, as it has a larger sensor chip than most compacts. It has reasonable wide angle capabilities and less than £400 now.

    DP Review does good reviews with examples when looking for cameras. Sensor size matters a lot at low light levels.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,174
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If you stand for election under a party label you should support that party's manifesto otherwise you are confusing voters

    We won't have a "manifesto". Nor does the federal party currently have a manifesto as the election was 2 years ago under a previous leader. Are Labour people now bound by the witterings of Corbyn?

    The Scottish government will propose a referendum, LibDem MSPs will vote against it, the government will win the vote. What would that have to with county councillors? My opinion on the matter is irrelevant - and again you show me a politician who has zero disagreement with the entire policy platform and I will point out that they are lying.

    If you do get away with it it will be because you are a candidate for local council only, if you wanted to stand for MSP or MP then obviously you would have to support the party line and vote against indyref2
    His position is not inconsistent with voting against indyref2.
  • HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Endillion said:

    DavidL said:

    What makes them think that he has done anything in the last 4 months?

    I said six month ago (ish) that Liz Truss was doing more for Britain and for foreign affairs in her role than the actual Foreign Secretary.

    Nothing has changed that opinion.
    Her department described as "Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V" by Whitehall mandarins for the copy and paste continuation deals being touted as new.
    Ignoring the last four words of your post for a minute, isn't that literally her job for the time being? And wasn't part of the argument against Brexit that we wouldn't be able to secure equally attractive terms on our own merits, without the EU's greater buying/negotiating power? In which case she is doing a smashing job in rolling them forwards.
    Sure! We needed to roll over the trade deals we left when we exited the EU. Nobody is saying that she shouldn't be doing this.

    What I think they are referring to is her claim that these are new deals. Whilst they are a new bilateral agreement they are not new trading arrangements. And yet the claim is made repeatedly that they are.
    You mentioned yesterday that you hoped to be selected for the lib dems and I did ask if you would campaign for the union

    I would be interested in your reply
    I don't understand the question. I am a member of a federalist party. I campaigned for them against the SNP government this year. We want to sustain the union by replacing the failed current union with a new written federal UK constitution that both encompasses national parliaments and as much local devolution (to Mayors for example) as people want.

    Will I campaign to preserve the status quo? No. Do I want scottish independence? No. But we WILL end up independent unless the union is made fit for the future. Westminster choosing to expel NI from the free trade zone and telling Scotland their votes count for nothing imperils the whole shebang.
    Seems a complex way of saying you agree with lib dem policy in support of the Union and you will campaign against independence
    Its a simple way to point out that "the union" as you define it - the current constitutional settlement - is not something we support. So no, I will not be campaigning to preserve this union, but for the creation of a new one.
    So will you refuse indyref2
    No! It is the expressed will of the Scottish people! A record turnout in a Holyrood election and a record number of pro-independence MSPs elected in a clear majority.

    To deny indyref2 is to deny democracy - and accelerate Scotland voting to leave.
    Scottish LD policy is to oppose indyref2, if you are now a LD candidate you are obliged to support LD policy

    https://prod.news.stv.tv/politics/scottish-lib-dems-will-oppose-holding-indyref2-at-any-point?top
    Don't be silly. My party is wrong on this subject. And we have a healthy debate on policy issues every year at conference.

    Its hardly like every candidate and elected representative at every level of every party
    wholeheartedly agrees with every policy that party has.
    If you stand on a party ticket you should support that party's manifesto otherwise you are confusing voters
    Do you agree with every aspect of the Conservative manifesto ?

    He can hardly join the SNP being a unionist and all that.
    Well, look at Ms Baillie - IIRC she's very keen on nukes at Faslane yet that is against Slab policy. And as my Scottish colleagues and I have pointed out, Slab can be a bit apt to urge voting for Tories. I seem to remember that HYUFD supports voting for Labour and LD in Scotland to keep the SNP out, which again is hardly party policy.
    Scottish Labour has reversed its opposition to nuclear weapons, certainly at UK level
    https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2019/11/26/scottish-labour-ditches-opposition-to-trident-renewal-for-uk-election/

    If I am elected as a Tory I will vote for and implement the Tory manifesto, tactical voting as the best means to preserve the Union, which is Tory policy does not change that
    Were I somehow to be elected to Aberdeenshire council I would not have to consider how I would vote in the MSPs vote on whether to do a referendum because I would not be an MSP. I will vote for and implement our programme for the council which shockingly enough has sod all to do with indyref2
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,798
    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    And @MaxPB fpt re LFT testing in Greece.

    Very very easy. You will get the address (google or recommendation from your hotel) of a friendly doctor's practice, you will rock up, they will wave the swab around in the general vicinity of your face and pronounce you fit to fly.

    €25 very badly spent but what can you do. I slightly bridled at the fact that were it positive you would NOT BE ALLOWED TO FLY INTO YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

    Ponder that, @contrarian -haters.

    You are not allowed to fly while having a communicatable disease
    Is the flu a communicable disease?
    In the sense of being notifiable to the public authorities rather than infectious
    So are you allowed to fly while having a communicable disease?
    See @Philip_Thompson at 14:01
    Yes I saw that. Can you post me the bit about not being allowed to fly while having a communicable disease.

    Does this mean that people have never flown or been allowed to fly while they have had the flu?
    Notifiable. Not flu.
    Thanks. Makes sense. Can you provide a link to the law pls.
    The power to make regulations is under s45B of the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984 which was inserted by s129 of the Health and Social Care Act 2008. There have been subsequent amendments in relation to Covid by the various Acts of that name which make it clear that it is covered.
    Thanks. Charles said that you are not allowed to fly if you have a "communicable disease". I was looking for the specific ordinance that states that. I found this which looks for all the world like it would provide the SoS with the powers to do so.

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/22

    On the government website it says "You must have proof of a negative COVID-19 test to travel to England from abroad." but I wondered what the context of it was.

    Because if the flu is a notifiable disease as per @Carnyx's link then we have never been in a position whereby a notifiable disease has prevented entry to this country before.
    45B Health protection regulations: international travel etc.
    (1) The appropriate Minister may by regulations make provision–
    (a) for preventing danger to public health from vessels, aircraft, trains or other conveyances arriving at any place,
    (b) for preventing the spread of infection or contamination by means of any vessel, aircraft, train or other conveyance leaving any place, and
    (c) for giving effect to any international agreement or arrangement relating to the spread of infection or contamination.
    (2) Regulations under subsection (1) may in particular include provision–
    (a) for the detention of conveyances,
    (b) for the medical examination, detention, isolation or quarantine of persons,
    (c) for the inspection, analysis, retention, isolation, quarantine or destruction of things,
    (d) for the disinfection or decontamination of conveyances, persons or things or the application of other sanitary measures,
    (e) for prohibiting or regulating the arrival or departure of conveyances and the entry or exit of persons or things,
    (f) imposing duties on masters, pilots, train managers and other persons on board conveyances and on owners and managers of ports, airports and other points of entry, and
    (g) requiring persons to provide information or answer questions (including information or questions relating to their health).

    That is at least one power to put these sort of restrictions in. Its probably not the only one.
    Yes I saw that. Has he done any of them previously or indeed now? ie is there a regulation to this effect in place now? Has there been previously?
    There's hundreds of them. A sample
    Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions and Functions of Local Authorities) (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2020/1409
    Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions) (No. 4) (Wales) Regulations 2020/1219
    Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions) (No. 5) (Wales) (Amendment) (No. 10) Regulations 2021/583
    Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions) (No. 5) (Wales) (Amendment) (No. 7) Regulations 2021/457
    Health Protection (Coronavirus) (Wales) Regulations 2020/308
    Health Protection (Coronavirus) Regulations 2020/129
    Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel and Information for Passengers) (England) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2021/452
    Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel and Information for Passengers) (England) (Amendment) Regulations 2021/252
    Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel and Operator Liability) (England) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2021/670
    Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel and Operator Liability) (England) (Amendment) (No. 3) Regulations 2021/731
    Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel and Operator Liability) (England) (Amendment) (No. 4) Regulations 2021/766
    Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel and Operator Liability) (England) (Amendment) (No. 5) Regulations 2021/795
    Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel and Operator Liability) (England) (Amendment) (No. 6) Regulations 2021/865
    Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel and Operator Liability) (England) (Amendment) (No. 7) Regulations 2021/914
    Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel and Operator Liability) (England) (Amendment) (No. 8) Regulations 2021/923
    Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel and Operator Liability) (England) (Amendment) (No. 9) Regulations 2021/966
    Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel and Operator Liability) (England) (Amendment) Regulations 2021/589
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889
    edited September 2021
    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    If you stand for election under a party label you should support that party's manifesto otherwise you are confusing voters

    We won't have a "manifesto". Nor does the federal party currently have a manifesto as the election was 2 years ago under a previous leader. Are Labour people now bound by the witterings of Corbyn?

    The Scottish government will propose a referendum, LibDem MSPs will vote against it, the government will win the vote. What would that have to with county councillors? My opinion on the matter is irrelevant - and again you show me a politician who has zero disagreement with the entire policy platform and I will point out that they are lying.

    It's one thing to vote against proposing a referendum. It's quite another to still oppose that referendum after the vote by the Scottish Parliament has been passed.
    I wonder if SLAB or SLID (The Tories won't) will pivot at that stage. Because once that point has been crossed it's less arguing against an indy ref, more arguing against devolved democracy itself.
    No because they stand by the principle it is for Westminster to agree to it and if the UK Tory, Labour and LD parties still oppose indyref2 so will they.

    The Tories obviously won't, you cannot get a handkerchief between Sarwar and Starmer and Cole-Hamilton and Davey either
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    Just working my way through the implications of the Texas abortion bill.

    As far as I can tell a rapist would now be able to successfully sue anyone involved in his victim's abortion if she chose to get one. Unless there is a specific restriction on that I haven't read about.

    The polling has suggested Texans back it though 48% to 42% with 68% of Republicans in favour (and Republicans hold the governor's mansion and control the Texas state legislature).
    https://www.texastribune.org/2019/06/19/near-majority-texans-favor-outlawing-abortion-after-six-weeks-ut-tt/

    If she got an abortion in the first 6 weeks of pregnancy it would still be legal
    It is an abysmal law which invites frivolous prosecutions which could bankrupt individuals or organisations, since it allows any private individual to bring a case, and explicitly prevents any defendant from recovering their legal costs.
  • And so it came to pass that the Scottish Government, little more than a month later, announced that it was also to introduce vaccine passports....

    July 28. @BBCGaryR: “The UK Government we know are considering barring those who are unvaccinated from certain events. Would that carrot and stick work?”

    Deputy FM John Swinney: “I don't think so, Gary. I think it's the wrong way to handle it. I think it's the wrong way.”


    https://twitter.com/ChrisMusson/status/1433066185390706699?s=20
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Just as well Sir Edward Grey wasn't grilled by MPs about his extensive knowledge of Bosnia Herzegovina in 1914.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,174
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    There seems to be clear logic in @Philip_Thompson 's position: if you are still fearful of covid, despite your vaccination status, you are at liberty to spend all your time in public wearing a FFP3 mask while avoiding anywhere that agitates your fear.

    If you are not fearful, and want to try to live your life as normally as possible, then you are equally at liberty to abandon your mask.

    I fit into the latter group, but realise that some people differ.

    So what? Live and let live.

    Lol - what people may or may not be fearful of is not the issue. Public health is the issue. There are plenty of wazzocks out there denying Covid and some of them win a Darwin Award by dying from it.

    We're in the middle of another big spike of pox that isn't going away. You will of course insist that your government-mandated wayward behaviour has nothing to do with it.
    Big spike? Deaths were down this week compared to the week before and were miniscule. If that's what you're considering a big spike then I'm quite happy to live with it.
    As I said, you may be dismissive, the rest of the world is not. The pandemic (not endemic) is still ripping through the globe, with new variants being created and we know how much they are when we get them.

    We may not be dying by the thousand every day thank God. But we are still a massively infected island, infection rates remain very very high compared to most other countries and its no wonder that we remain on restricted country lists in so many places.
    I couldn't care less.

    The entire planet needs to learn to live with the virus. Of course countries that haven't as successfully handled Covid19 as Britain so are less vaccinated than us will be terrified of Delta letting rip there - if I was in New Zealand or Australia right now it'd be a real concern.

    I'm delighted that we vaccinated ourselves first ahead of the world. The rest of the world needs to catch up with us in learning to live with the virus, that's not a bad thing, its just a sign of our huge success that we got there before them.
    Got it. So our vax rates now lagging behind chunks of Europe is cause for delight, and we are right and the rest of the world is wrong.

    The problem of course is that whilst England can think like that it doesn't mean the rest of the world has to agree and do what we say. We're going to end up getting mandatory quarantine going anywhere off this island at this rate.
    That's only because most European countries are using the sleight of hand on measurement of what being vaccinated actually is. We count people with two doses as fully vaccinated, in most of Europe a prior infection and a single jab counts as being fully vaccinated.
    Given that one dose plus an infection seems to confer greater immunity to Delta than "double dosed", I'm struggling to see a sleight of hand here. It sounds - just like our extending of the period between doses - as a very sensible way of rationing scarce vaccine resources, and maximising protection.
    Our method produces more double dosed + previously infected though. Which are .... again more immune than one dose + infection.
  • I wonder why Yoons in a far away country of which we know far too fecking much are telling an LD who actually lives in Scotland what he can and can't support? Weird.

    There is nothing weird about commenting on a candidate standing for election in direct contravention of the party's line
    I'm fairly confident that when I stood as a Labour candidate in the council elections that advocating the extinction of humankind was not party policy.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,128

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Charles said:

    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    @MattW FPT.
    Why are rabbits sentimentalised in Taiwan?

    They are simply a common pet, and an animal not eaten.
    My observation, which kicked off quite a discussion, was in response to someone getting grief for eating guinea pig in Peru.
    The point being that all cultures divide animals into pets, food, vermin and indifferent.
    Not always similarly, nor logically.

    Thanks. Is there a rabbit-eating history similar to how traditionally urban Chinese used to keep carp in the back garden for consumption? Compare England and the household pig fed on scraps.

    So a good comparison in some ways might actually be dogs in the UK?
    Horses probably more relevant

    The Brits sentimalise - the French eat them
    And the Swedes. I had cold sliced horse meat on my open sandwich for breakfast this morning.
    I take it your neigh joking?
    You gymkhana beat it.
    What do you have to pony up for that?
    At 22 kronor for 100 grammes, my wallet takes it at a canter.
    Can't we rein in this discussion?
    You're all for the high jump for this quality of punning...
  • PJHPJH Posts: 643

    I wonder why Yoons in a far away country of which we know far too fecking much are telling an LD who actually lives in Scotland what he can and can't support? Weird.

    There is nothing weird about commenting on a candidate standing for election in direct contravention of the party's line
    That seems odd coming from a Tory. My local MP has generally stood in direct opposition to the party line on Europe, certainly in 2010 and 2017.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    dr_spyn said:

    Just as well Sir Edward Grey wasn't grilled by MPs about his extensive knowledge of Bosnia Herzegovina in 1914.

    Mind, the British Army (all there was of it in 1914) wasn't fighting in the Balkans (at least at that time.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,798

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Charles said:

    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    @MattW FPT.
    Why are rabbits sentimentalised in Taiwan?

    They are simply a common pet, and an animal not eaten.
    My observation, which kicked off quite a discussion, was in response to someone getting grief for eating guinea pig in Peru.
    The point being that all cultures divide animals into pets, food, vermin and indifferent.
    Not always similarly, nor logically.

    Thanks. Is there a rabbit-eating history similar to how traditionally urban Chinese used to keep carp in the back garden for consumption? Compare England and the household pig fed on scraps.

    So a good comparison in some ways might actually be dogs in the UK?
    Horses probably more relevant

    The Brits sentimalise - the French eat them
    And the Swedes. I had cold sliced horse meat on my open sandwich for breakfast this morning.
    I take it your neigh joking?
    You gymkhana beat it.
    What do you have to pony up for that?
    At 22 kronor for 100 grammes, my wallet takes it at a canter.
    Can't we rein in this discussion?
    I was just getting the bit between my teeth.
  • Raab seems to have a folder full of details of minor relevance but no clue about major details like with whom he spoke and when.
  • Andy_JS said:

    Colin Pitchfork has been released. The first person in the world to be convicted using DNA evidence.

    The television docudrama Code of a Killer is worth watching if available. Mrs Thatcher played a walk-on role. The mass screening was funded against Home Office concerns because of a chance meeting with DT.

    It is a shame that Alec Jeffries has not won a Nobel Prize. Kary Mullis did get one for the PCR amplification of DNA samples.
  • HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Endillion said:

    DavidL said:

    What makes them think that he has done anything in the last 4 months?

    I said six month ago (ish) that Liz Truss was doing more for Britain and for foreign affairs in her role than the actual Foreign Secretary.

    Nothing has changed that opinion.
    Her department described as "Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V" by Whitehall mandarins for the copy and paste continuation deals being touted as new.
    Ignoring the last four words of your post for a minute, isn't that literally her job for the time being? And wasn't part of the argument against Brexit that we wouldn't be able to secure equally attractive terms on our own merits, without the EU's greater buying/negotiating power? In which case she is doing a smashing job in rolling them forwards.
    Sure! We needed to roll over the trade deals we left when we exited the EU. Nobody is saying that she shouldn't be doing this.

    What I think they are referring to is her claim that these are new deals. Whilst they are a new bilateral agreement they are not new trading arrangements. And yet the claim is made repeatedly that they are.
    You mentioned yesterday that you hoped to be selected for the lib dems and I did ask if you would campaign for the union

    I would be interested in your reply
    I don't understand the question. I am a member of a federalist party. I campaigned for them against the SNP government this year. We want to sustain the union by replacing the failed current union with a new written federal UK constitution that both encompasses national parliaments and as much local devolution (to Mayors for example) as people want.

    Will I campaign to preserve the status quo? No. Do I want scottish independence? No. But we WILL end up independent unless the union is made fit for the future. Westminster choosing to expel NI from the free trade zone and telling Scotland their votes count for nothing imperils the whole shebang.
    Seems a complex way of saying you agree with lib dem policy in support of the Union and you will campaign against independence
    Its a simple way to point out that "the union" as you define it - the current constitutional settlement - is not something we support. So no, I will not be campaigning to preserve this union, but for the creation of a new one.
    So will you refuse indyref2
    No! It is the expressed will of the Scottish people! A record turnout in a Holyrood election and a record number of pro-independence MSPs elected in a clear majority.

    To deny indyref2 is to deny democracy - and accelerate Scotland voting to leave.
    Scottish LD policy is to oppose indyref2, if you are now a LD candidate you are obliged to support LD policy

    https://prod.news.stv.tv/politics/scottish-lib-dems-will-oppose-holding-indyref2-at-any-point?top
    Don't be silly. My party is wrong on this subject. And we have a healthy debate on policy issues every year at conference.

    Its hardly like every candidate and elected representative at every level of every party
    wholeheartedly agrees with every policy that party has.
    If you stand on a party ticket you should support that party's manifesto otherwise you are confusing voters
    Do you agree with every aspect of the Conservative manifesto ?

    He can hardly join the SNP being a unionist and all that.
    Well, look at Ms Baillie - IIRC she's very keen on nukes at Faslane yet that is against Slab policy. And as my Scottish colleagues and I have pointed out, Slab can be a bit apt to urge voting for Tories. I seem to remember that HYUFD supports voting for Labour and LD in Scotland to keep the SNP out, which again is hardly party policy.
    Scottish Labour has reversed its opposition to nuclear weapons, certainly at UK level
    https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2019/11/26/scottish-labour-ditches-opposition-to-trident-renewal-for-uk-election/

    If I am elected as a Tory I will vote for and implement the Tory manifesto, tactical voting as the best means to preserve the Union, which is Tory policy does not change that
    Either tactical voting yourself or advocating voters vote against your party is grounds to get you expelled from the party.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,798

    Raab - all those named in the documents found at the embassy are now in the UK and safe

    And I have this fantastic bridge for sale, very good price!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Charles said:

    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    @MattW FPT.
    Why are rabbits sentimentalised in Taiwan?

    They are simply a common pet, and an animal not eaten.
    My observation, which kicked off quite a discussion, was in response to someone getting grief for eating guinea pig in Peru.
    The point being that all cultures divide animals into pets, food, vermin and indifferent.
    Not always similarly, nor logically.

    Thanks. Is there a rabbit-eating history similar to how traditionally urban Chinese used to keep carp in the back garden for consumption? Compare England and the household pig fed on scraps.

    So a good comparison in some ways might actually be dogs in the UK?
    Horses probably more relevant

    The Brits sentimalise - the French eat them
    And the Swedes. I had cold sliced horse meat on my open sandwich for breakfast this morning.
    I take it your neigh joking?
    You gymkhana beat it.
    What do you have to pony up for that?
    At 22 kronor for 100 grammes, my wallet takes it at a canter.
    Can't we rein in this discussion?
    Yes far too much horsing around on here.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098

    Listening to Raab at the committee is a great way to nod off

    Bore your way out of trouble. I've seen it work.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,789
    Charles said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    And @MaxPB fpt re LFT testing in Greece.

    Very very easy. You will get the address (google or recommendation from your hotel) of a friendly doctor's practice, you will rock up, they will wave the swab around in the general vicinity of your face and pronounce you fit to fly.

    €25 very badly spent but what can you do. I slightly bridled at the fact that were it positive you would NOT BE ALLOWED TO FLY INTO YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

    Ponder that, @contrarian -haters.

    Thanks, I was looking into the self administered ones from here which are £30 or so, they also feel like a rip off, especially given that you don't have to actually do them, just get a negative result. It's completely pointless now that everyone in the UK is eligible to be vaccinated. You probably won't agree but I'd put up a vaccine wall on flying in and out of the UK, anyone who isn't must arrange to be on quarantine flights that will go direct to the 10 day hotel prisons. This testing stuff is just so much hassle and makes weekends away a nightmare to figure out. There's no longer a life where my wife and I can just book a weekend in Rome going on Friday evening and arriving on Monday morning which is quite depressing.
    So you would trade off a substantial reduction in other people’s freedom so you can enjoy a weekend away?
    Those other people are free to get a vaccine. Only their stupidity is stopping them.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Endillion said:

    DavidL said:

    What makes them think that he has done anything in the last 4 months?

    I said six month ago (ish) that Liz Truss was doing more for Britain and for foreign affairs in her role than the actual Foreign Secretary.

    Nothing has changed that opinion.
    Her department described as "Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V" by Whitehall mandarins for the copy and paste continuation deals being touted as new.
    Ignoring the last four words of your post for a minute, isn't that literally her job for the time being? And wasn't part of the argument against Brexit that we wouldn't be able to secure equally attractive terms on our own merits, without the EU's greater buying/negotiating power? In which case she is doing a smashing job in rolling them forwards.
    Sure! We needed to roll over the trade deals we left when we exited the EU. Nobody is saying that she shouldn't be doing this.

    What I think they are referring to is her claim that these are new deals. Whilst they are a new bilateral agreement they are not new trading arrangements. And yet the claim is made repeatedly that they are.
    You mentioned yesterday that you hoped to be selected for the lib dems and I did ask if you would campaign for the union

    I would be interested in your reply
    I don't understand the question. I am a member of a federalist party. I campaigned for them against the SNP government this year. We want to sustain the union by replacing the failed current union with a new written federal UK constitution that both encompasses national parliaments and as much local devolution (to Mayors for example) as people want.

    Will I campaign to preserve the status quo? No. Do I want scottish independence? No. But we WILL end up independent unless the union is made fit for the future. Westminster choosing to expel NI from the free trade zone and telling Scotland their votes count for nothing imperils the whole shebang.
    Seems a complex way of saying you agree with lib dem policy in support of the Union and you will campaign against independence
    Its a simple way to point out that "the union" as you define it - the current constitutional settlement - is not something we support. So no, I will not be campaigning to preserve this union, but for the creation of a new one.
    So will you refuse indyref2
    No! It is the expressed will of the Scottish people! A record turnout in a Holyrood election and a record number of pro-independence MSPs elected in a clear majority.

    To deny indyref2 is to deny democracy - and accelerate Scotland voting to leave.
    Scottish LD policy is to oppose indyref2, if you are now a LD candidate you are obliged to support LD policy

    https://prod.news.stv.tv/politics/scottish-lib-dems-will-oppose-holding-indyref2-at-any-point?top
    Don't be silly. My party is wrong on this subject. And we have a healthy debate on policy issues every year at conference.

    Its hardly like every candidate and elected representative at every level of every party
    wholeheartedly agrees with every policy that party has.
    If you stand on a party ticket you should support that party's manifesto otherwise you are confusing voters
    Do you agree with every aspect of the Conservative manifesto ?

    He can hardly join the SNP being a unionist and all that.
    Well, look at Ms Baillie - IIRC she's very keen on nukes at Faslane yet that is against Slab policy. And as my Scottish colleagues and I have pointed out, Slab can be a bit apt to urge voting for Tories. I seem to remember that HYUFD supports voting for Labour and LD in Scotland to keep the SNP out, which again is hardly party policy.
    Scottish Labour has reversed its opposition to nuclear weapons, certainly at UK level
    https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2019/11/26/scottish-labour-ditches-opposition-to-trident-renewal-for-uk-election/

    If I am elected as a Tory I will vote for and implement the Tory manifesto, tactical voting as the best means to preserve the Union, which is Tory policy does not change that
    Either tactical voting yourself or advocating voters vote against your party is grounds to get you expelled from the party.
    Apart from in Scotland, even the Scottish Conservative leader did not oppose tactical voting against the SNP given the main divide there is Unionist v Nationalist
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/04/08/scottish-tory-leader-urges-voters-back-labour-libdems-seats/
  • Raab seems to have a folder full of details of minor relevance but no clue about major details like with whom he spoke and when.

    I call this lying
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129
    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    There seems to be clear logic in @Philip_Thompson 's position: if you are still fearful of covid, despite your vaccination status, you are at liberty to spend all your time in public wearing a FFP3 mask while avoiding anywhere that agitates your fear.

    If you are not fearful, and want to try to live your life as normally as possible, then you are equally at liberty to abandon your mask.

    I fit into the latter group, but realise that some people differ.

    So what? Live and let live.

    Lol - what people may or may not be fearful of is not the issue. Public health is the issue. There are plenty of wazzocks out there denying Covid and some of them win a Darwin Award by dying from it.

    We're in the middle of another big spike of pox that isn't going away. You will of course insist that your government-mandated wayward behaviour has nothing to do with it.
    Big spike? Deaths were down this week compared to the week before and were miniscule. If that's what you're considering a big spike then I'm quite happy to live with it.
    As I said, you may be dismissive, the rest of the world is not. The pandemic (not endemic) is still ripping through the globe, with new variants being created and we know how much they are when we get them.

    We may not be dying by the thousand every day thank God. But we are still a massively infected island, infection rates remain very very high compared to most other countries and its no wonder that we remain on restricted country lists in so many places.
    I couldn't care less.

    The entire planet needs to learn to live with the virus. Of course countries that haven't as successfully handled Covid19 as Britain so are less vaccinated than us will be terrified of Delta letting rip there - if I was in New Zealand or Australia right now it'd be a real concern.

    I'm delighted that we vaccinated ourselves first ahead of the world. The rest of the world needs to catch up with us in learning to live with the virus, that's not a bad thing, its just a sign of our huge success that we got there before them.
    Got it. So our vax rates now lagging behind chunks of Europe is cause for delight, and we are right and the rest of the world is wrong.

    The problem of course is that whilst England can think like that it doesn't mean the rest of the world has to agree and do what we say. We're going to end up getting mandatory quarantine going anywhere off this island at this rate.
    That's only because most European countries are using the sleight of hand on measurement of what being vaccinated actually is. We count people with two doses as fully vaccinated, in most of Europe a prior infection and a single jab counts as being fully vaccinated.
    Given that one dose plus an infection seems to confer greater immunity to Delta than "double dosed", I'm struggling to see a sleight of hand here. It sounds - just like our extending of the period between doses - as a very sensible way of rationing scarce vaccine resources, and maximising protection.
    Our method produces more double dosed + previously infected though. Which are .... again more immune than one dose + infection.
    Given that infection with original variant Covid seems to confer 99% protection against reinfection with Delta, I can't possibly imagine that the difference is great enough to justify getting all upset.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited September 2021
    MattW said:

    Brains Trust:

    I'm on the lookout for a compact digital or mirrorless camera which has a reasonable performance for architecture, and particularly in low light.

    Does anyone have any recommendations?

    Budget is really what it needs to be, but I'm keen to stay some way below £1000 if I can.

    Thanks

    “The best camera is the one you’ve got in your pocket”

    The cameras in the latest smartphones are really quite exceptional. They’re pretty much as good as any midrange standalone camera, especially with the processing capabilities.

    If I were you, I’d wait until apple release their next iPhone, then buy last years pro model at a discount.

    The main benefit though, as I said, is with a decent smartphone camera, you’re more likely to have it on you when a decent photo opportunity arises.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,174
    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    If you stand for election under a party label you should support that party's manifesto otherwise you are confusing voters

    We won't have a "manifesto". Nor does the federal party currently have a manifesto as the election was 2 years ago under a previous leader. Are Labour people now bound by the witterings of Corbyn?

    The Scottish government will propose a referendum, LibDem MSPs will vote against it, the government will win the vote. What would that have to with county councillors? My opinion on the matter is irrelevant - and again you show me a politician who has zero disagreement with the entire policy platform and I will point out that they are lying.

    It's one thing to vote against proposing a referendum. It's quite another to still oppose that referendum after the vote by the Scottish Parliament has been passed.
    I wonder if SLAB or SLID (The Tories won't) will pivot at that stage. Because once that point has been crossed it's less arguing against an indy ref, more arguing against devolved democracy itself.
    No because they stand by the principle it is for Westminster to agree to it and if the UK Tory, Labour and LD parties still oppose indyref2 so will they.

    The Tories obviously won't, you cannot get a handkerchief between Sarwar and Starmer and Cole-Hamilton and Davey either
    This sort of argument reminds me of the GOP in the USA and quite frankly the nonsense of the 2017-19 parliament. It's attempting to deny agency to Scottish voters in the same way the Brexit vote should have been annulled because parliamentarians knew best or the state legislatures should override the democratic will of each state.
    A most unbecoming argument.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,417
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Charles said:

    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    @MattW FPT.
    Why are rabbits sentimentalised in Taiwan?

    They are simply a common pet, and an animal not eaten.
    My observation, which kicked off quite a discussion, was in response to someone getting grief for eating guinea pig in Peru.
    The point being that all cultures divide animals into pets, food, vermin and indifferent.
    Not always similarly, nor logically.

    Thanks. Is there a rabbit-eating history similar to how traditionally urban Chinese used to keep carp in the back garden for consumption? Compare England and the household pig fed on scraps.

    So a good comparison in some ways might actually be dogs in the UK?
    Horses probably more relevant

    The Brits sentimalise - the French eat them
    And the Swedes. I had cold sliced horse meat on my open sandwich for breakfast this morning.
    I take it your neigh joking?
    You gymkhana beat it.
    What do you have to pony up for that?
    At 22 kronor for 100 grammes, my wallet takes it at a canter.
    Can't we rein in this discussion?
    I was just getting the bit between my teeth.
    I'm sorry if colleagues are beginning to bridle at my remark.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    Brains Trust:

    I'm on the lookout for a compact digital or mirrorless camera which has a reasonable performance for architecture, and particularly in low light.

    Does anyone have any recommendations?

    Budget is really what it needs to be, but I'm keen to stay some way below £1000 if I can.

    Thanks

    I have a Panasonic TZ100 which is excellent in low light, as it has a larger sensor chip than most compacts. It has reasonable wide angle capabilities and less than £400 now.

    DP Review does good reviews with examples when looking for cameras. Sensor size matters a lot at low light levels.
    If you're doing pictures of architecture, as opposed to something that moves, the most cost effective low light solution is a tripod.
  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Charles said:

    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    @MattW FPT.
    Why are rabbits sentimentalised in Taiwan?

    They are simply a common pet, and an animal not eaten.
    My observation, which kicked off quite a discussion, was in response to someone getting grief for eating guinea pig in Peru.
    The point being that all cultures divide animals into pets, food, vermin and indifferent.
    Not always similarly, nor logically.

    Thanks. Is there a rabbit-eating history similar to how traditionally urban Chinese used to keep carp in the back garden for consumption? Compare England and the household pig fed on scraps.

    So a good comparison in some ways might actually be dogs in the UK?
    Horses probably more relevant

    The Brits sentimalise - the French eat them
    And the Swedes. I had cold sliced horse meat on my open sandwich for breakfast this morning.
    I take it your neigh joking?
    You gymkhana beat it.
    What do you have to pony up for that?
    At 22 kronor for 100 grammes, my wallet takes it at a canter.
    Can't we rein in this discussion?
    Too much chaff? Would you like to chew the hay over something else in its steed?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098
    edited September 2021
    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Endillion said:

    DavidL said:

    What makes them think that he has done anything in the last 4 months?

    I said six month ago (ish) that Liz Truss was doing more for Britain and for foreign affairs in her role than the actual Foreign Secretary.

    Nothing has changed that opinion.
    Her department described as "Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V" by Whitehall mandarins for the copy and paste continuation deals being touted as new.
    Ignoring the last four words of your post for a minute, isn't that literally her job for the time being? And wasn't part of the argument against Brexit that we wouldn't be able to secure equally attractive terms on our own merits, without the EU's greater buying/negotiating power? In which case she is doing a smashing job in rolling them forwards.
    Sure! We needed to roll over the trade deals we left when we exited the EU. Nobody is saying that she shouldn't be doing this.

    What I think they are referring to is her claim that these are new deals. Whilst they are a new bilateral agreement they are not new trading arrangements. And yet the claim is made repeatedly that they are.
    You mentioned yesterday that you hoped to be selected for the lib dems and I did ask if you would campaign for the union

    I would be interested in your reply
    I don't understand the question. I am a member of a federalist party. I campaigned for them against the SNP government this year. We want to sustain the union by replacing the failed current union with a new written federal UK constitution that both encompasses national parliaments and as much local devolution (to Mayors for example) as people want.

    Will I campaign to preserve the status quo? No. Do I want scottish independence? No. But we WILL end up independent unless the union is made fit for the future. Westminster choosing to expel NI from the free trade zone and telling Scotland their votes count for nothing imperils the whole shebang.
    Seems a complex way of saying you agree with lib dem policy in support of the Union and you will campaign against independence
    Its a simple way to point out that "the union" as you define it - the current constitutional settlement - is not something we support. So no, I will not be campaigning to preserve this union, but for the creation of a new one.
    So will you refuse indyref2
    No! It is the expressed will of the Scottish people! A record turnout in a Holyrood election and a record number of pro-independence MSPs elected in a clear majority.

    To deny indyref2 is to deny democracy - and accelerate Scotland voting to leave.
    Scottish LD policy is to oppose indyref2, if you are now a LD candidate you are obliged to support LD policy

    https://prod.news.stv.tv/politics/scottish-lib-dems-will-oppose-holding-indyref2-at-any-point?top
    Don't be silly. My party is wrong on this subject. And we have a healthy debate on policy issues every year at conference.

    Its hardly like every candidate and elected representative at every level of every party
    wholeheartedly agrees with every policy that party has.
    If you stand on a party ticket you should support that party's manifesto otherwise you are confusing voters
    Do you agree with every aspect of the Conservative manifesto ?

    He can hardly join the SNP being a unionist and all that.
    I thought Rochdale favoured Sindy now?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889
    PJH said:

    I wonder why Yoons in a far away country of which we know far too fecking much are telling an LD who actually lives in Scotland what he can and can't support? Weird.

    There is nothing weird about commenting on a candidate standing for election in direct contravention of the party's line
    That seems odd coming from a Tory. My local MP has generally stood in direct opposition to the party line on Europe, certainly in 2010 and 2017.
    Any Tory parliamentary candidates (including incumbent MPs) who were not willing to vote for Brexit were deselected before the 2019 general election
  • Raab now absolutely refusing to tell the committee when he went on holiday.
  • HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Endillion said:

    DavidL said:

    What makes them think that he has done anything in the last 4 months?

    I said six month ago (ish) that Liz Truss was doing more for Britain and for foreign affairs in her role than the actual Foreign Secretary.

    Nothing has changed that opinion.
    Her department described as "Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V" by Whitehall mandarins for the copy and paste continuation deals being touted as new.
    Ignoring the last four words of your post for a minute, isn't that literally her job for the time being? And wasn't part of the argument against Brexit that we wouldn't be able to secure equally attractive terms on our own merits, without the EU's greater buying/negotiating power? In which case she is doing a smashing job in rolling them forwards.
    Sure! We needed to roll over the trade deals we left when we exited the EU. Nobody is saying that she shouldn't be doing this.

    What I think they are referring to is her claim that these are new deals. Whilst they are a new bilateral agreement they are not new trading arrangements. And yet the claim is made repeatedly that they are.
    You mentioned yesterday that you hoped to be selected for the lib dems and I did ask if you would campaign for the union

    I would be interested in your reply
    I don't understand the question. I am a member of a federalist party. I campaigned for them against the SNP government this year. We want to sustain the union by replacing the failed current union with a new written federal UK constitution that both encompasses national parliaments and as much local devolution (to Mayors for example) as people want.

    Will I campaign to preserve the status quo? No. Do I want scottish independence? No. But we WILL end up independent unless the union is made fit for the future. Westminster choosing to expel NI from the free trade zone and telling Scotland their votes count for nothing imperils the whole shebang.
    Seems a complex way of saying you agree with lib dem policy in support of the Union and you will campaign against independence
    Its a simple way to point out that "the union" as you define it - the current constitutional settlement - is not something we support. So no, I will not be campaigning to preserve this union, but for the creation of a new one.
    So will you refuse indyref2
    No! It is the expressed will of the Scottish people! A record turnout in a Holyrood election and a record number of pro-independence MSPs elected in a clear majority.

    To deny indyref2 is to deny democracy - and accelerate Scotland voting to leave.
    Scottish LD policy is to oppose indyref2, if you are now a LD candidate you are obliged to support LD policy

    https://prod.news.stv.tv/politics/scottish-lib-dems-will-oppose-holding-indyref2-at-any-point?top
    Don't be silly. My party is wrong on this subject. And we have a healthy debate on policy issues every year at conference.

    Its hardly like every candidate and elected representative at every level of every party
    wholeheartedly agrees with every policy that party has.
    If you stand on a party ticket you should support that party's manifesto otherwise you are confusing voters
    Do you agree with every aspect of the Conservative manifesto ?

    He can hardly join the SNP being a unionist and all that.
    Well, look at Ms Baillie - IIRC she's very keen on nukes at Faslane yet that is against Slab policy. And as my Scottish colleagues and I have pointed out, Slab can be a bit apt to urge voting for Tories. I seem to remember that HYUFD supports voting for Labour and LD in Scotland to keep the SNP out, which again is hardly party policy.
    Scottish Labour has reversed its opposition to nuclear weapons, certainly at UK level
    https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2019/11/26/scottish-labour-ditches-opposition-to-trident-renewal-for-uk-election/

    If I am elected as a Tory I will vote for and implement the Tory manifesto, tactical voting as the best means to preserve the Union, which is Tory policy does not change that
    Either tactical voting yourself or advocating voters vote against your party is grounds to get you expelled from the party.
    Indeed. No party tolerates their candidates encouraging electors to vote for a different party.
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