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The afternoon must watch – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited September 1 in General
The afternoon must watch – politicalbetting.com

?The Foreign Secretary will appear during an extraordinary session from 2pm.??Tom Tugendhat, the committee chairman, bemoaned the fact that he has "sadly only granted us an hour, which I don't think is particularly long, given the scale of the crisis"https://t.co/YUZzxXHCVb

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Comments

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,712

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    "Green" issues will simply be absorbed into the political mainstream with the dividing line being technological capitalists versus luddite ecosocialism.

    There's another dividing line in approximately the same place: wishful thinkers and denialists versus prepared to bite the bullet. The profit motive is powerful and necessary but it won't be fixing this on its own. It needs coordinated action from governments of all stripes.
    I think denialist are down to 15-20% of the electorate. The debate is about what we do, how far we go and how quickly - even what parts of it we must 'accept' and adapt to.

    Again, my antennae are very much up because I can smell groups that are trying to use this as a once in a generation opportunity to "reshape society" a mile away.
    It is usually us oldies that rail against the mores of the upcoming generation, the angst heightened because we know that, however much we protest and however strong our arguments, simple demographics and the passage of time guarantees that we are destined to lose.

    You seem to have come down with a very early case and are destined for a miserable old age surrounded by people with long hair and loud music...as the generation before me would have complained
    I was out clubbing at the Ministry of Sound last Friday night until 4am. And I also don't live with my mum.

    I suspect I'm a tad more 'hip' than your good self.
    I am quite sure that you are. But it was an analogy remembering the complaints old people used to make when I was your age.

    Resistance [to generational social change] is futile. And will simply condemn you to an unhappy old age
    Personally? I am able to respond to and process societal change; the challenge is to identify the positive trends that need embracing (treating those of all backgrounds fairly), those that aren't quite right and need shaping (the response to climate change, or gender identity issues) and those that aren't right and need resisting (suffocating free speech, a rise of polarisation/authoritarianism and attacking the foundations on which our society is built).

    One might not get the balance of that right from time but it's also not right simply to "go along" with all change in the belief that the youngest generations are always the best informed.
    Agreed. Yes there will be stuffy fossils who use such arguments to seek to resist something out of selfishness or stubborness, but just because things are trending a new way does not mean it is definitely a positive thing.

    Not least since society is not a linear path to utopia.
  • There seems to be clear logic in @Philip_Thompson 's position: if you are still fearful of covid, despite your vaccination status, you are at liberty to spend all your time in public wearing a FFP3 mask while avoiding anywhere that agitates your fear.

    If you are not fearful, and want to try to live your life as normally as possible, then you are equally at liberty to abandon your mask.

    I fit into the latter group, but realise that some people differ.

    So what? Live and let live.

    Lol - what people may or may not be fearful of is not the issue. Public health is the issue. There are plenty of wazzocks out there denying Covid and some of them win a Darwin Award by dying from it.

    We're in the middle of another big spike of pox that isn't going away. You will of course insist that your government-mandated wayward behaviour has nothing to do with it.
    Big spike? Deaths were down this week compared to the week before and were miniscule. If that's what you're considering a big spike then I'm quite happy to live with it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,712
    I'd agree Boris cannot put things off too much longer, but he is a master.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,192
    What makes them think that he has done anything in the last 4 months?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 10,924

    There seems to be clear logic in @Philip_Thompson 's position: if you are still fearful of covid, despite your vaccination status, you are at liberty to spend all your time in public wearing a FFP3 mask while avoiding anywhere that agitates your fear.

    If you are not fearful, and want to try to live your life as normally as possible, then you are equally at liberty to abandon your mask.

    I fit into the latter group, but realise that some people differ.

    So what? Live and let live.

    Lol - what people may or may not be fearful of is not the issue. Public health is the issue. There are plenty of wazzocks out there denying Covid and some of them win a Darwin Award by dying from it.

    We're in the middle of another big spike of pox that isn't going away. You will of course insist that your government-mandated wayward behaviour has nothing to do with it.
    Big spike? Deaths were down this week compared to the week before and were miniscule. If that's what you're considering a big spike then I'm quite happy to live with it.
    Indeed. This poster seems to whistle to his own tune.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,889
    Berating Raab is just people using him as a proxy for the US actions of the past 60 20 years.

    It achieved nothing, he couldn't have achieved much on his own, but makes everyone feel better for no noticeable gain.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 1,524

    There seems to be clear logic in @Philip_Thompson 's position: if you are still fearful of covid, despite your vaccination status, you are at liberty to spend all your time in public wearing a FFP3 mask while avoiding anywhere that agitates your fear.

    If you are not fearful, and want to try to live your life as normally as possible, then you are equally at liberty to abandon your mask.

    I fit into the latter group, but realise that some people differ.

    So what? Live and let live.

    Lol - what people may or may not be fearful of is not the issue. Public health is the issue. There are plenty of wazzocks out there denying Covid and some of them win a Darwin Award by dying from it.

    We're in the middle of another big spike of pox that isn't going away. You will of course insist that your government-mandated wayward behaviour has nothing to do with it.
    Big spike? Deaths were down this week compared to the week before and were miniscule. If that's what you're considering a big spike then I'm quite happy to live with it.

    There seems to be clear logic in @Philip_Thompson 's position: if you are still fearful of covid, despite your vaccination status, you are at liberty to spend all your time in public wearing a FFP3 mask while avoiding anywhere that agitates your fear.

    If you are not fearful, and want to try to live your life as normally as possible, then you are equally at liberty to abandon your mask.

    I fit into the latter group, but realise that some people differ.

    So what? Live and let live.

    Lol - what people may or may not be fearful of is not the issue. Public health is the issue. There are plenty of wazzocks out there denying Covid and some of them win a Darwin Award by dying from it.

    We're in the middle of another big spike of pox that isn't going away. You will of course insist that your government-mandated wayward behaviour has nothing to do with it.
    Big spike? Deaths were down this week compared to the week before and were miniscule. If that's what you're considering a big spike then I'm quite happy to live with it.
    Philip

    Genuine question

    Could you tell me what job you do? I would love to apply for a similar one, as you always seem to find the time during the day to be on here.
  • DavidL said:

    What makes them think that he has done anything in the last 4 months?

    I said six month ago (ish) that Liz Truss was doing more for Britain and for foreign affairs in her role than the actual Foreign Secretary.

    Nothing has changed that opinion.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,454
    Further on Dunkirk being invoked, or not as the case may be, Mr Reckless seems to think it was an airlift:

    https://twitter.com/MarkReckless/status/1432810200155688966

  • MattWMattW Posts: 10,746
    edited September 1
    Afternoon all.

    FPPPT but on topic:

    Why does Raab-bit sentimentalism have such a hold amongst Taiwanese?

    Obviously one of the 12, and the god for gays seems to be a rabbit.

    Anything else?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,889
    edited September 1
    And @MaxPB fpt re LFT testing in Greece.

    Very very easy. You will get the address (google or recommendation from your hotel) of a friendly doctor's practice, you will rock up, they will wave the swab around in the general vicinity of your face and pronounce you fit to fly.

    €25 very badly spent but what can you do. I slightly bridled at the fact that were it positive you would NOT BE ALLOWED TO FLY INTO YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

    Ponder that, @contrarian -haters.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,192

    There seems to be clear logic in @Philip_Thompson 's position: if you are still fearful of covid, despite your vaccination status, you are at liberty to spend all your time in public wearing a FFP3 mask while avoiding anywhere that agitates your fear.

    If you are not fearful, and want to try to live your life as normally as possible, then you are equally at liberty to abandon your mask.

    I fit into the latter group, but realise that some people differ.

    So what? Live and let live.

    Lol - what people may or may not be fearful of is not the issue. Public health is the issue. There are plenty of wazzocks out there denying Covid and some of them win a Darwin Award by dying from it.

    We're in the middle of another big spike of pox that isn't going away. You will of course insist that your government-mandated wayward behaviour has nothing to do with it.
    Big spike? Deaths were down this week compared to the week before and were miniscule. If that's what you're considering a big spike then I'm quite happy to live with it.
    681 deaths in the last 7 days. I don't think that is miniscule. Its roughly 5% of all deaths in the UK over that time.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 68,403

    There seems to be clear logic in @Philip_Thompson 's position: if you are still fearful of covid, despite your vaccination status, you are at liberty to spend all your time in public wearing a FFP3 mask while avoiding anywhere that agitates your fear.

    If you are not fearful, and want to try to live your life as normally as possible, then you are equally at liberty to abandon your mask.

    I fit into the latter group, but realise that some people differ.

    So what? Live and let live.

    Lol - what people may or may not be fearful of is not the issue. Public health is the issue. There are plenty of wazzocks out there denying Covid and some of them win a Darwin Award by dying from it.

    We're in the middle of another big spike of pox that isn't going away. You will of course insist that your government-mandated wayward behaviour has nothing to do with it.
    Big spike? Deaths were down this week compared to the week before and were miniscule. If that's what you're considering a big spike then I'm quite happy to live with it.
    Comparing week on week deaths at this point won't be particularly helpful - as there'll be a bank holiday effect that should mostly clear with today's figures.
  • There seems to be clear logic in @Philip_Thompson 's position: if you are still fearful of covid, despite your vaccination status, you are at liberty to spend all your time in public wearing a FFP3 mask while avoiding anywhere that agitates your fear.

    If you are not fearful, and want to try to live your life as normally as possible, then you are equally at liberty to abandon your mask.

    I fit into the latter group, but realise that some people differ.

    So what? Live and let live.

    Lol - what people may or may not be fearful of is not the issue. Public health is the issue. There are plenty of wazzocks out there denying Covid and some of them win a Darwin Award by dying from it.

    We're in the middle of another big spike of pox that isn't going away. You will of course insist that your government-mandated wayward behaviour has nothing to do with it.
    Big spike? Deaths were down this week compared to the week before and were miniscule. If that's what you're considering a big spike then I'm quite happy to live with it.

    There seems to be clear logic in @Philip_Thompson 's position: if you are still fearful of covid, despite your vaccination status, you are at liberty to spend all your time in public wearing a FFP3 mask while avoiding anywhere that agitates your fear.

    If you are not fearful, and want to try to live your life as normally as possible, then you are equally at liberty to abandon your mask.

    I fit into the latter group, but realise that some people differ.

    So what? Live and let live.

    Lol - what people may or may not be fearful of is not the issue. Public health is the issue. There are plenty of wazzocks out there denying Covid and some of them win a Darwin Award by dying from it.

    We're in the middle of another big spike of pox that isn't going away. You will of course insist that your government-mandated wayward behaviour has nothing to do with it.
    Big spike? Deaths were down this week compared to the week before and were miniscule. If that's what you're considering a big spike then I'm quite happy to live with it.
    Philip

    Genuine question

    Could you tell me what job you do? I would love to apply for a similar one, as you always seem to find the time during the day to be on here.
    I work from home and I set my own hours, so long as I get my job done then the time isn't pre-set. So I do a lot of my work in the evening and weekends.

    Its not like I'm going out at those times now!

    But I've actually been online less here recently anyway.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,411
    edited September 1
    @MattW FPT.
    Why are rabbits sentimentalised in Taiwan?

    They are simply a common pet, and an animal not eaten.
    My observation, which kicked off quite a discussion, was in response to someone getting grief for eating guinea pig in Peru.
    The point being that all cultures divide animals into pets, food, vermin and indifferent.
    Not always similarly, nor logically.

    As for Raab.Well I know which way I'd categorise him.
  • DavidL said:

    There seems to be clear logic in @Philip_Thompson 's position: if you are still fearful of covid, despite your vaccination status, you are at liberty to spend all your time in public wearing a FFP3 mask while avoiding anywhere that agitates your fear.

    If you are not fearful, and want to try to live your life as normally as possible, then you are equally at liberty to abandon your mask.

    I fit into the latter group, but realise that some people differ.

    So what? Live and let live.

    Lol - what people may or may not be fearful of is not the issue. Public health is the issue. There are plenty of wazzocks out there denying Covid and some of them win a Darwin Award by dying from it.

    We're in the middle of another big spike of pox that isn't going away. You will of course insist that your government-mandated wayward behaviour has nothing to do with it.
    Big spike? Deaths were down this week compared to the week before and were miniscule. If that's what you're considering a big spike then I'm quite happy to live with it.
    681 deaths in the last 7 days. I don't think that is miniscule. Its roughly 5% of all deaths in the UK over that time.
    I do. People die from one thing or another, 5% isn't something to end living life over.

    Not to forget that's a mere 5% who died within 28 days of a test, not necessarily who died from Covid.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 10,746
    edited September 1
    dixiedean said:

    @MattW FPT.
    Why are rabbits sentimentalised in Taiwan?

    They are simply a common pet, and an animal not eaten.
    My observation, which kicked off quite a discussion, was in response to someone getting grief for eating guinea pig in Peru.
    The point being that all cultures divide animals into pets, food, vermin and indifferent.
    Not always similarly, nor logically.

    Thanks. Is there a rabbit-eating history similar to how traditionally urban Chinese used to keep carp in the back garden for consumption? Compare England and the household pig fed on scraps.

    So a good comparison in some ways might actually be dogs in the UK?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 43,972
    TOPPING said:

    Berating Raab is just people using him as a proxy for the US actions of the past 60 20 years.

    It achieved nothing, he couldn't have achieved much on his own, but makes everyone feel better for no noticeable gain.

    It hurts my pride to say it but, let's face it, we were the USA's bag carrier in 'Stan for the last few years.
  • There seems to be clear logic in @Philip_Thompson 's position: if you are still fearful of covid, despite your vaccination status, you are at liberty to spend all your time in public wearing a FFP3 mask while avoiding anywhere that agitates your fear.

    If you are not fearful, and want to try to live your life as normally as possible, then you are equally at liberty to abandon your mask.

    I fit into the latter group, but realise that some people differ.

    So what? Live and let live.

    Lol - what people may or may not be fearful of is not the issue. Public health is the issue. There are plenty of wazzocks out there denying Covid and some of them win a Darwin Award by dying from it.

    We're in the middle of another big spike of pox that isn't going away. You will of course insist that your government-mandated wayward behaviour has nothing to do with it.
    Big spike? Deaths were down this week compared to the week before and were miniscule. If that's what you're considering a big spike then I'm quite happy to live with it.
    As I said, you may be dismissive, the rest of the world is not. The pandemic (not endemic) is still ripping through the globe, with new variants being created and we know how much they are when we get them.

    We may not be dying by the thousand every day thank God. But we are still a massively infected island, infection rates remain very very high compared to most other countries and its no wonder that we remain on restricted country lists in so many places.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,192

    DavidL said:

    What makes them think that he has done anything in the last 4 months?

    I said six month ago (ish) that Liz Truss was doing more for Britain and for foreign affairs in her role than the actual Foreign Secretary.

    Nothing has changed that opinion.
    There were quite a lot of fans of Raab on here 6 months to a year ago. He was credited with doing well when Boris was off ill. But I never saw it. Wooden, boring, lazy, irresponsible. We must be able to do better than that.
  • DavidL said:

    What makes them think that he has done anything in the last 4 months?

    I said six month ago (ish) that Liz Truss was doing more for Britain and for foreign affairs in her role than the actual Foreign Secretary.

    Nothing has changed that opinion.
    Her department described as "Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V" by Whitehall mandarins for the copy and paste continuation deals being touted as new.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 25,319
    TOPPING said:

    Berating Raab is just people using him as a proxy for the US actions of the past 60 20 years.

    It achieved nothing, he couldn't have achieved much on his own, but makes everyone feel better for no noticeable gain.

    Great post.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 25,319
    TOPPING said:

    And @MaxPB fpt re LFT testing in Greece.

    Very very easy. You will get the address (google or recommendation from your hotel) of a friendly doctor's practice, you will rock up, they will wave the swab around in the general vicinity of your face and pronounce you fit to fly.

    €25 very badly spent but what can you do. I slightly bridled at the fact that were it positive you would NOT BE ALLOWED TO FLY INTO YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

    Ponder that, @contrarian -haters.

    Asinine post.
  • There seems to be clear logic in @Philip_Thompson 's position: if you are still fearful of covid, despite your vaccination status, you are at liberty to spend all your time in public wearing a FFP3 mask while avoiding anywhere that agitates your fear.

    If you are not fearful, and want to try to live your life as normally as possible, then you are equally at liberty to abandon your mask.

    I fit into the latter group, but realise that some people differ.

    So what? Live and let live.

    Lol - what people may or may not be fearful of is not the issue. Public health is the issue. There are plenty of wazzocks out there denying Covid and some of them win a Darwin Award by dying from it.

    We're in the middle of another big spike of pox that isn't going away. You will of course insist that your government-mandated wayward behaviour has nothing to do with it.
    Big spike? Deaths were down this week compared to the week before and were miniscule. If that's what you're considering a big spike then I'm quite happy to live with it.
    As I said, you may be dismissive, the rest of the world is not. The pandemic (not endemic) is still ripping through the globe, with new variants being created and we know how much they are when we get them.

    We may not be dying by the thousand every day thank God. But we are still a massively infected island, infection rates remain very very high compared to most other countries and its no wonder that we remain on restricted country lists in so many places.
    I couldn't care less.

    The entire planet needs to learn to live with the virus. Of course countries that haven't as successfully handled Covid19 as Britain so are less vaccinated than us will be terrified of Delta letting rip there - if I was in New Zealand or Australia right now it'd be a real concern.

    I'm delighted that we vaccinated ourselves first ahead of the world. The rest of the world needs to catch up with us in learning to live with the virus, that's not a bad thing, its just a sign of our huge success that we got there before them.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,454
    MattW said:

    Afternoon all.

    FPPPT but on topic:

    Why does Raab-bit sentimentalism have such a hold amongst Taiwanese?

    Obviously one of the 12, and the god for gays seems to be a rabbit.

    Anything else?

    He's knwon as Raab C. Brexit in northern parts, by the way, in case that is news to you? (May well be, in which case I am in the noble tradition of the Scottish Enlightenment.)
  • Jeremy Hunt written a good thread on COVID and how the signs are looking concerning.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 68,403

    DavidL said:

    There seems to be clear logic in @Philip_Thompson 's position: if you are still fearful of covid, despite your vaccination status, you are at liberty to spend all your time in public wearing a FFP3 mask while avoiding anywhere that agitates your fear.

    If you are not fearful, and want to try to live your life as normally as possible, then you are equally at liberty to abandon your mask.

    I fit into the latter group, but realise that some people differ.

    So what? Live and let live.

    Lol - what people may or may not be fearful of is not the issue. Public health is the issue. There are plenty of wazzocks out there denying Covid and some of them win a Darwin Award by dying from it.

    We're in the middle of another big spike of pox that isn't going away. You will of course insist that your government-mandated wayward behaviour has nothing to do with it.
    Big spike? Deaths were down this week compared to the week before and were miniscule. If that's what you're considering a big spike then I'm quite happy to live with it.
    681 deaths in the last 7 days. I don't think that is miniscule. Its roughly 5% of all deaths in the UK over that time.
    I do. People die from one thing or another, 5% isn't something to end living life over.

    Not to forget that's a mere 5% who died within 28 days of a test, not necessarily who died from Covid.
    I'd agree
    I'd disagree - Deaths with Covid on the death certificate exceed deaths after 28 days of a positive test so there are always a few more people that die from Covid than the 28 day cut-off rather than the other way round.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,192
    edited September 1

    DavidL said:

    There seems to be clear logic in @Philip_Thompson 's position: if you are still fearful of covid, despite your vaccination status, you are at liberty to spend all your time in public wearing a FFP3 mask while avoiding anywhere that agitates your fear.

    If you are not fearful, and want to try to live your life as normally as possible, then you are equally at liberty to abandon your mask.

    I fit into the latter group, but realise that some people differ.

    So what? Live and let live.

    Lol - what people may or may not be fearful of is not the issue. Public health is the issue. There are plenty of wazzocks out there denying Covid and some of them win a Darwin Award by dying from it.

    We're in the middle of another big spike of pox that isn't going away. You will of course insist that your government-mandated wayward behaviour has nothing to do with it.
    Big spike? Deaths were down this week compared to the week before and were miniscule. If that's what you're considering a big spike then I'm quite happy to live with it.
    681 deaths in the last 7 days. I don't think that is miniscule. Its roughly 5% of all deaths in the UK over that time.
    I do. People die from one thing or another, 5% isn't something to end living life over.

    Not to forget that's a mere 5% who died within 28 days of a test, not necessarily who died from Covid.
    No one is talking about ending life Philip. But you are overstating your case considerably trying to claim this is over. It isn't.
  • Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    There seems to be clear logic in @Philip_Thompson 's position: if you are still fearful of covid, despite your vaccination status, you are at liberty to spend all your time in public wearing a FFP3 mask while avoiding anywhere that agitates your fear.

    If you are not fearful, and want to try to live your life as normally as possible, then you are equally at liberty to abandon your mask.

    I fit into the latter group, but realise that some people differ.

    So what? Live and let live.

    Lol - what people may or may not be fearful of is not the issue. Public health is the issue. There are plenty of wazzocks out there denying Covid and some of them win a Darwin Award by dying from it.

    We're in the middle of another big spike of pox that isn't going away. You will of course insist that your government-mandated wayward behaviour has nothing to do with it.
    Big spike? Deaths were down this week compared to the week before and were miniscule. If that's what you're considering a big spike then I'm quite happy to live with it.
    681 deaths in the last 7 days. I don't think that is miniscule. Its roughly 5% of all deaths in the UK over that time.
    I do. People die from one thing or another, 5% isn't something to end living life over.

    Not to forget that's a mere 5% who died within 28 days of a test, not necessarily who died from Covid.
    I'd agree
    I'd disagree - Deaths with Covid on the death certificate exceed deaths after 28 days of a positive test so there are always a few more people that die from Covid than the 28 day cut-off rather than the other way round.
    On the italicised I disagree with your disagreement.

    Excess deaths (which is what ultimately matters) are very considerably lower than both deaths within 28 days and deaths with it on the certificate.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 68,403
    I know if you're independent then it's your issue, but what happens if you're on a package holiday and test positive for Covid (And thus aren't allowed back ?)
  • DavidL said:




    DavidL said:

    There seems to be clear logic in @Philip_Thompson 's position: if you are still fearful of covid, despite your vaccination status, you are at liberty to spend all your time in public wearing a FFP3 mask while avoiding anywhere that agitates your fear.

    If you are not fearful, and want to try to live your life as normally as possible, then you are equally at liberty to abandon your mask.

    I fit into the latter group, but realise that some people differ.

    So what? Live and let live.

    Lol - what people may or may not be fearful of is not the issue. Public health is the issue. There are plenty of wazzocks out there denying Covid and some of them win a Darwin Award by dying from it.

    We're in the middle of another big spike of pox that isn't going away. You will of course insist that your government-mandated wayward behaviour has nothing to do with it.
    Big spike? Deaths were down this week compared to the week before and were miniscule. If that's what you're considering a big spike then I'm quite happy to live with it.
    681 deaths in the last 7 days. I don't think that is miniscule. Its roughly 5% of all deaths in the UK over that time.
    I do. People die from one thing or another, 5% isn't something to end living life over.

    Not to forget that's a mere 5% who died within 28 days of a test, not necessarily who died from Covid.
    No one is talking about ending life Philip. But you are overstating your case considerably trying to claim this is over. It isn't.
    Some do want to still prevent us from living life which is what I wrote, not ending life.

    The epidemic is over. We're now in the endemic phase not the epidemic phase.

    This will never be "over" if you mean no more cases, that's not what endemic means, but nor is it what epidemic means either.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,712
    edited September 1
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    What makes them think that he has done anything in the last 4 months?

    I said six month ago (ish) that Liz Truss was doing more for Britain and for foreign affairs in her role than the actual Foreign Secretary.

    Nothing has changed that opinion.
    There were quite a lot of fans of Raab on here 6 months to a year ago. He was credited with doing well when Boris was off ill. But I never saw it. Wooden, boring, lazy, irresponsible. We must be able to do better than that.
    He didn't have much to actually do and is capable of looking at least plausible, which is more than some of his colleagues, but there's never seemed to be much to him. Sunak may well be overhyped, but if one were looking for a future leader he at least has something more about him. Even Patel offers something to get people going among the base.
  • kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    What makes them think that he has done anything in the last 4 months?

    I said six month ago (ish) that Liz Truss was doing more for Britain and for foreign affairs in her role than the actual Foreign Secretary.

    Nothing has changed that opinion.
    There were quite a lot of fans of Raab on here 6 months to a year ago. He was credited with doing well when Boris was off ill. But I never saw it. Wooden, boring, lazy, irresponsible. We must be able to do better than that.
    He didn't have much to actually do and is capable of looking at least plausible, which is more than some of his colleagues, but there's never seemed to be much to him.
    He's always been rubbish.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,852
    TOPPING said:

    And @MaxPB fpt re LFT testing in Greece.

    Very very easy. You will get the address (google or recommendation from your hotel) of a friendly doctor's practice, you will rock up, they will wave the swab around in the general vicinity of your face and pronounce you fit to fly.

    €25 very badly spent but what can you do. I slightly bridled at the fact that were it positive you would NOT BE ALLOWED TO FLY INTO YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

    Ponder that, @contrarian -haters.

    You are not allowed to fly while having a communicatable disease
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,389
    edited September 1
    Personally if Raab does go I think Tom Tugendhat would be an excellent replacement as Foreign Secretary.

    Though as it was Biden who led this withdrawal and set the timetable Raab cannot be blamed too much for it and for those left behind to face the Taliban
  • There seems to be clear logic in @Philip_Thompson 's position: if you are still fearful of covid, despite your vaccination status, you are at liberty to spend all your time in public wearing a FFP3 mask while avoiding anywhere that agitates your fear.

    If you are not fearful, and want to try to live your life as normally as possible, then you are equally at liberty to abandon your mask.

    I fit into the latter group, but realise that some people differ.

    So what? Live and let live.

    Lol - what people may or may not be fearful of is not the issue. Public health is the issue. There are plenty of wazzocks out there denying Covid and some of them win a Darwin Award by dying from it.

    We're in the middle of another big spike of pox that isn't going away. You will of course insist that your government-mandated wayward behaviour has nothing to do with it.
    Big spike? Deaths were down this week compared to the week before and were miniscule. If that's what you're considering a big spike then I'm quite happy to live with it.
    As I said, you may be dismissive, the rest of the world is not. The pandemic (not endemic) is still ripping through the globe, with new variants being created and we know how much they are when we get them.

    We may not be dying by the thousand every day thank God. But we are still a massively infected island, infection rates remain very very high compared to most other countries and its no wonder that we remain on restricted country lists in so many places.
    I couldn't care less.

    The entire planet needs to learn to live with the virus. Of course countries that haven't as successfully handled Covid19 as Britain so are less vaccinated than us will be terrified of Delta letting rip there - if I was in New Zealand or Australia right now it'd be a real concern.

    I'm delighted that we vaccinated ourselves first ahead of the world. The rest of the world needs to catch up with us in learning to live with the virus, that's not a bad thing, its just a sign of our huge success that we got there before them.
    Got it. So our vax rates now lagging behind chunks of Europe is cause for delight, and we are right and the rest of the world is wrong.

    The problem of course is that whilst England can think like that it doesn't mean the rest of the world has to agree and do what we say. We're going to end up getting mandatory quarantine going anywhere off this island at this rate.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 68,403

    Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    There seems to be clear logic in @Philip_Thompson 's position: if you are still fearful of covid, despite your vaccination status, you are at liberty to spend all your time in public wearing a FFP3 mask while avoiding anywhere that agitates your fear.

    If you are not fearful, and want to try to live your life as normally as possible, then you are equally at liberty to abandon your mask.

    I fit into the latter group, but realise that some people differ.

    So what? Live and let live.

    Lol - what people may or may not be fearful of is not the issue. Public health is the issue. There are plenty of wazzocks out there denying Covid and some of them win a Darwin Award by dying from it.

    We're in the middle of another big spike of pox that isn't going away. You will of course insist that your government-mandated wayward behaviour has nothing to do with it.
    Big spike? Deaths were down this week compared to the week before and were miniscule. If that's what you're considering a big spike then I'm quite happy to live with it.
    681 deaths in the last 7 days. I don't think that is miniscule. Its roughly 5% of all deaths in the UK over that time.
    I do. People die from one thing or another, 5% isn't something to end living life over.

    Not to forget that's a mere 5% who died within 28 days of a test, not necessarily who died from Covid.
    I'd agree
    I'd disagree - Deaths with Covid on the death certificate exceed deaths after 28 days of a positive test so there are always a few more people that die from Covid than the 28 day cut-off rather than the other way round.
    On the italicised I disagree with your disagreement.

    Excess deaths (which is what ultimately matters) are very considerably lower than both deaths within 28 days and deaths with it on the certificate.
    That's a different point entirely !
  • DavidL said:




    DavidL said:

    There seems to be clear logic in @Philip_Thompson 's position: if you are still fearful of covid, despite your vaccination status, you are at liberty to spend all your time in public wearing a FFP3 mask while avoiding anywhere that agitates your fear.

    If you are not fearful, and want to try to live your life as normally as possible, then you are equally at liberty to abandon your mask.

    I fit into the latter group, but realise that some people differ.

    So what? Live and let live.

    Lol - what people may or may not be fearful of is not the issue. Public health is the issue. There are plenty of wazzocks out there denying Covid and some of them win a Darwin Award by dying from it.

    We're in the middle of another big spike of pox that isn't going away. You will of course insist that your government-mandated wayward behaviour has nothing to do with it.
    Big spike? Deaths were down this week compared to the week before and were miniscule. If that's what you're considering a big spike then I'm quite happy to live with it.
    681 deaths in the last 7 days. I don't think that is miniscule. Its roughly 5% of all deaths in the UK over that time.
    I do. People die from one thing or another, 5% isn't something to end living life over.

    Not to forget that's a mere 5% who died within 28 days of a test, not necessarily who died from Covid.
    No one is talking about ending life Philip. But you are overstating your case considerably trying to claim this is over. It isn't.
    Some do want to still prevent us from living life which is what I wrote, not ending life.

    The epidemic is over. We're now in the endemic phase not the epidemic phase.

    This will never be "over" if you mean no more cases, that's not what endemic means, but nor is it what epidemic means either.
    *giggles* in what way is the epidemic over? If the UKGB was the world then perhaps. But it isn't...
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,889
    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    And @MaxPB fpt re LFT testing in Greece.

    Very very easy. You will get the address (google or recommendation from your hotel) of a friendly doctor's practice, you will rock up, they will wave the swab around in the general vicinity of your face and pronounce you fit to fly.

    €25 very badly spent but what can you do. I slightly bridled at the fact that were it positive you would NOT BE ALLOWED TO FLY INTO YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

    Ponder that, @contrarian -haters.

    You are not allowed to fly while having a communicatable disease
    Is the flu a communicable disease?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,852
    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    @MattW FPT.
    Why are rabbits sentimentalised in Taiwan?

    They are simply a common pet, and an animal not eaten.
    My observation, which kicked off quite a discussion, was in response to someone getting grief for eating guinea pig in Peru.
    The point being that all cultures divide animals into pets, food, vermin and indifferent.
    Not always similarly, nor logically.

    Thanks. Is there a rabbit-eating history similar to how traditionally urban Chinese used to keep carp in the back garden for consumption? Compare England and the household pig fed on scraps.

    So a good comparison in some ways might actually be dogs in the UK?
    Horses probably more relevant

    The Brits sentimalise - the French eat them
  • Pulpstar said:

    I know if you're independent then it's your issue, but what happens if you're on a package holiday and test positive for Covid (And thus aren't allowed back ?)

    From prior experience you might need to claim on your travel insurance, but your package provider ought to help.

    Many, many moons ago I was on holiday for a fortnight in the Dominican Republic on a package holiday. Thomson (as it was then called) only one flight per week to and from the island and the UK. We made friends with another couple who were there only for a week. While they were at the airport to head back home he became physically ill and so was taken to hospital and they weren't able to board the plane, so she was returned to the resort and he returned to the resort the next day too. As they'd missed the flight, their one week holiday became an unplanned two week one, but they needed to claim on the travel insurance to cover the costs of both the extended stay and the hospital visit.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,852

    DavidL said:

    What makes them think that he has done anything in the last 4 months?

    I said six month ago (ish) that Liz Truss was doing more for Britain and for foreign affairs in her role than the actual Foreign Secretary.

    Nothing has changed that opinion.
    Her department described as "Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V" by Whitehall mandarins for the copy and paste continuation deals being touted as new.
    Take Ctrl?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 43,972

    Jeremy Hunt written a good thread on COVID and how the signs are looking concerning.

    "The clear lesson for the UK seems to be…get on with booster jabs, not just for the clinically vulnerable but for everyone. The latest Zoe study showed vaccine effectiveness dropping after six months, so why are we hanging around?"

    Again he is talking sense on covid.
    The Government will prevaricate far too long before making a decision, and there are still plenty of loons who become all anti-vax when it comes to jabs for kids.

    It's quite clear to me that we need to keep our boot on the throat of the Delta variant worldwide until it fizzles out.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 21,319
    edited September 1
    Pulpstar said:

    There seems to be clear logic in @Philip_Thompson 's position: if you are still fearful of covid, despite your vaccination status, you are at liberty to spend all your time in public wearing a FFP3 mask while avoiding anywhere that agitates your fear.

    If you are not fearful, and want to try to live your life as normally as possible, then you are equally at liberty to abandon your mask.

    I fit into the latter group, but realise that some people differ.

    So what? Live and let live.

    Lol - what people may or may not be fearful of is not the issue. Public health is the issue. There are plenty of wazzocks out there denying Covid and some of them win a Darwin Award by dying from it.

    We're in the middle of another big spike of pox that isn't going away. You will of course insist that your government-mandated wayward behaviour has nothing to do with it.
    Big spike? Deaths were down this week compared to the week before and were miniscule. If that's what you're considering a big spike then I'm quite happy to live with it.
    Comparing week on week deaths at this point won't be particularly helpful - as there'll be a bank holiday effect that should mostly clear with today's figures.
    Yeah, Deaths by date reported is probably the worst "By date reported" metric you can choose to use due to the numerous reporting issues.
  • DavidL said:




    DavidL said:

    There seems to be clear logic in @Philip_Thompson 's position: if you are still fearful of covid, despite your vaccination status, you are at liberty to spend all your time in public wearing a FFP3 mask while avoiding anywhere that agitates your fear.

    If you are not fearful, and want to try to live your life as normally as possible, then you are equally at liberty to abandon your mask.

    I fit into the latter group, but realise that some people differ.

    So what? Live and let live.

    Lol - what people may or may not be fearful of is not the issue. Public health is the issue. There are plenty of wazzocks out there denying Covid and some of them win a Darwin Award by dying from it.

    We're in the middle of another big spike of pox that isn't going away. You will of course insist that your government-mandated wayward behaviour has nothing to do with it.
    Big spike? Deaths were down this week compared to the week before and were miniscule. If that's what you're considering a big spike then I'm quite happy to live with it.
    681 deaths in the last 7 days. I don't think that is miniscule. Its roughly 5% of all deaths in the UK over that time.
    I do. People die from one thing or another, 5% isn't something to end living life over.

    Not to forget that's a mere 5% who died within 28 days of a test, not necessarily who died from Covid.
    No one is talking about ending life Philip. But you are overstating your case considerably trying to claim this is over. It isn't.
    Some do want to still prevent us from living life which is what I wrote, not ending life.

    The epidemic is over. We're now in the endemic phase not the epidemic phase.

    This will never be "over" if you mean no more cases, that's not what endemic means, but nor is it what epidemic means either.
    *giggles* in what way is the epidemic over? If the UKGB was the world then perhaps. But it isn't...
    Its over in the UK, its not over in the rest of the planet.

    Which is why they need to catch up with us. 🤷‍♂️
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,389

    There seems to be clear logic in @Philip_Thompson 's position: if you are still fearful of covid, despite your vaccination status, you are at liberty to spend all your time in public wearing a FFP3 mask while avoiding anywhere that agitates your fear.

    If you are not fearful, and want to try to live your life as normally as possible, then you are equally at liberty to abandon your mask.

    I fit into the latter group, but realise that some people differ.

    So what? Live and let live.

    Lol - what people may or may not be fearful of is not the issue. Public health is the issue. There are plenty of wazzocks out there denying Covid and some of them win a Darwin Award by dying from it.

    We're in the middle of another big spike of pox that isn't going away. You will of course insist that your government-mandated wayward behaviour has nothing to do with it.
    Big spike? Deaths were down this week compared to the week before and were miniscule. If that's what you're considering a big spike then I'm quite happy to live with it.
    As I said, you may be dismissive, the rest of the world is not. The pandemic (not endemic) is still ripping through the globe, with new variants being created and we know how much they are when we get them.

    We may not be dying by the thousand every day thank God. But we are still a massively infected island, infection rates remain very very high compared to most other countries and its no wonder that we remain on restricted country lists in so many places.
    I couldn't care less.

    The entire planet needs to learn to live with the virus. Of course countries that haven't as successfully handled Covid19 as Britain so are less vaccinated than us will be terrified of Delta letting rip there - if I was in New Zealand or Australia right now it'd be a real concern.

    I'm delighted that we vaccinated ourselves first ahead of the world. The rest of the world needs to catch up with us in learning to live with the virus, that's not a bad thing, its just a sign of our huge success that we got there before them.
    Got it. So our vax rates now lagging behind chunks of Europe is cause for delight, and we are right and the rest of the world is wrong.

    The problem of course is that whilst England can think like that it doesn't mean the rest of the world has to agree and do what we say. We're going to end up getting mandatory quarantine going anywhere off this island at this rate.
    Which would still be better than mandatory isolation, travel bans and never ending lockdowns which NZ and Australia have now due to their low vaccination rates compared to ours
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,889
    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    And @MaxPB fpt re LFT testing in Greece.

    Very very easy. You will get the address (google or recommendation from your hotel) of a friendly doctor's practice, you will rock up, they will wave the swab around in the general vicinity of your face and pronounce you fit to fly.

    €25 very badly spent but what can you do. I slightly bridled at the fact that were it positive you would NOT BE ALLOWED TO FLY INTO YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

    Ponder that, @contrarian -haters.

    You are not allowed to fly while having a communicatable disease
    Can you please also post the link to that ordinance. I can't find it after a brief google.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 51,940
    HYUFD said:

    Personally if Raab does go I think Tom Tugendhat would be an excellent replacement as Foreign Secretary.

    While he's a sincere chap I wonder if he has the finesse required....
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,454
    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    And @MaxPB fpt re LFT testing in Greece.

    Very very easy. You will get the address (google or recommendation from your hotel) of a friendly doctor's practice, you will rock up, they will wave the swab around in the general vicinity of your face and pronounce you fit to fly.

    €25 very badly spent but what can you do. I slightly bridled at the fact that were it positive you would NOT BE ALLOWED TO FLY INTO YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

    Ponder that, @contrarian -haters.

    You are not allowed to fly while having a communicatable disease
    Can you please also post the link to that ordinance. I can't find it after a brief google.
    Did you search under "communicable"?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 31,752
    edited September 1
    TOPPING said:

    And @MaxPB fpt re LFT testing in Greece.

    Very very easy. You will get the address (google or recommendation from your hotel) of a friendly doctor's practice, you will rock up, they will wave the swab around in the general vicinity of your face and pronounce you fit to fly.

    €25 very badly spent but what can you do. I slightly bridled at the fact that were it positive you would NOT BE ALLOWED TO FLY INTO YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

    Ponder that, @contrarian -haters.

    Thanks, I was looking into the self administered ones from here which are £30 or so, they also feel like a rip off, especially given that you don't have to actually do them, just get a negative result. It's completely pointless now that everyone in the UK is eligible to be vaccinated. You probably won't agree but I'd put up a vaccine wall on flying in and out of the UK, anyone who isn't must arrange to be on quarantine flights that will go direct to the 10 day hotel prisons. This testing stuff is just so much hassle and makes weekends away a nightmare to figure out. There's no longer a life where my wife and I can just book a weekend in Rome going on Friday evening and arriving on Monday morning which is quite depressing.
  • Jeremy Hunt written a good thread on COVID and how the signs are looking concerning.

    "The clear lesson for the UK seems to be…get on with booster jabs, not just for the clinically vulnerable but for everyone. The latest Zoe study showed vaccine effectiveness dropping after six months, so why are we hanging around?"

    Again he is talking sense on covid.
    The Government will prevaricate far too long before making a decision, and there are still plenty of loons who become all anti-vax when it comes to jabs for kids.

    It's quite clear to me that we need to keep our boot on the throat of the Delta variant worldwide until it fizzles out.
    They already have....we could have done kids throughout the summer holidays.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 57,323
    Mr. Royale, your opposition to the Junior Anti-Sex League is doubleplusungood.
  • There seems to be clear logic in @Philip_Thompson 's position: if you are still fearful of covid, despite your vaccination status, you are at liberty to spend all your time in public wearing a FFP3 mask while avoiding anywhere that agitates your fear.

    If you are not fearful, and want to try to live your life as normally as possible, then you are equally at liberty to abandon your mask.

    I fit into the latter group, but realise that some people differ.

    So what? Live and let live.

    Lol - what people may or may not be fearful of is not the issue. Public health is the issue. There are plenty of wazzocks out there denying Covid and some of them win a Darwin Award by dying from it.

    We're in the middle of another big spike of pox that isn't going away. You will of course insist that your government-mandated wayward behaviour has nothing to do with it.
    Big spike? Deaths were down this week compared to the week before and were miniscule. If that's what you're considering a big spike then I'm quite happy to live with it.
    As I said, you may be dismissive, the rest of the world is not. The pandemic (not endemic) is still ripping through the globe, with new variants being created and we know how much they are when we get them.

    We may not be dying by the thousand every day thank God. But we are still a massively infected island, infection rates remain very very high compared to most other countries and its no wonder that we remain on restricted country lists in so many places.
    I couldn't care less.

    The entire planet needs to learn to live with the virus. Of course countries that haven't as successfully handled Covid19 as Britain so are less vaccinated than us will be terrified of Delta letting rip there - if I was in New Zealand or Australia right now it'd be a real concern.

    I'm delighted that we vaccinated ourselves first ahead of the world. The rest of the world needs to catch up with us in learning to live with the virus, that's not a bad thing, its just a sign of our huge success that we got there before them.
    Got it. So our vax rates now lagging behind chunks of Europe is cause for delight, and we are right and the rest of the world is wrong.

    The problem of course is that whilst England can think like that it doesn't mean the rest of the world has to agree and do what we say. We're going to end up getting mandatory quarantine going anywhere off this island at this rate.
    Which chunks of Europe is our vax rate lagging behind?

    image

    Yes we are right and no the rest of the world isn't "wrong" they're just behind us in vaccinating their populace. Some are catching up with us, that can only be a good thing.

    We had more restrictions before we were as vaccinated as we are too, quite appropriate they do too.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 1,138
    edited September 1

    HYUFD said:

    Personally if Raab does go I think Tom Tugendhat would be an excellent replacement as Foreign Secretary.

    While he's a sincere chap I wonder if he has the finesse required....
    Raab probably doesn't see why he should personally carry the can for 20 years of concerted self-delusion by everyone involved.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 3,858

    DavidL said:

    What makes them think that he has done anything in the last 4 months?

    I said six month ago (ish) that Liz Truss was doing more for Britain and for foreign affairs in her role than the actual Foreign Secretary.

    Nothing has changed that opinion.
    Her department described as "Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V" by Whitehall mandarins for the copy and paste continuation deals being touted as new.
    Ignoring the last four words of your post for a minute, isn't that literally her job for the time being? And wasn't part of the argument against Brexit that we wouldn't be able to secure equally attractive terms on our own merits, without the EU's greater buying/negotiating power? In which case she is doing a smashing job in rolling them forwards.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,889
    Carnyx said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    And @MaxPB fpt re LFT testing in Greece.

    Very very easy. You will get the address (google or recommendation from your hotel) of a friendly doctor's practice, you will rock up, they will wave the swab around in the general vicinity of your face and pronounce you fit to fly.

    €25 very badly spent but what can you do. I slightly bridled at the fact that were it positive you would NOT BE ALLOWED TO FLY INTO YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

    Ponder that, @contrarian -haters.

    You are not allowed to fly while having a communicatable disease
    Can you please also post the link to that ordinance. I can't find it after a brief google.
    Did you search under "communicable"?
    "flying communicable disease"

    Basic, but I thought it would cover the bases.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,389

    HYUFD said:

    Personally if Raab does go I think Tom Tugendhat would be an excellent replacement as Foreign Secretary.

    While he's a sincere chap I wonder if he has the finesse required....
    He certainly has the brains, understanding of foreign affairs and diplomatic skills required
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 1,821
    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    What makes them think that he has done anything in the last 4 months?

    I said six month ago (ish) that Liz Truss was doing more for Britain and for foreign affairs in her role than the actual Foreign Secretary.

    Nothing has changed that opinion.
    There were quite a lot of fans of Raab on here 6 months to a year ago. He was credited with doing well when Boris was off ill. But I never saw it. Wooden, boring, lazy, irresponsible. We must be able to do better than that.
    He didn't have much to actually do and is capable of looking at least plausible, which is more than some of his colleagues, but there's never seemed to be much to him. Sunak may well be overhyped, but if one were looking for a future leader he at least has something more about him. Even Patel offers something to get people going among the base.
    I've been impressed with the Vaccines Minister when I've seen him. His name escapes me though.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 10,746
    Charles said:

    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    @MattW FPT.
    Why are rabbits sentimentalised in Taiwan?

    They are simply a common pet, and an animal not eaten.
    My observation, which kicked off quite a discussion, was in response to someone getting grief for eating guinea pig in Peru.
    The point being that all cultures divide animals into pets, food, vermin and indifferent.
    Not always similarly, nor logically.

    Thanks. Is there a rabbit-eating history similar to how traditionally urban Chinese used to keep carp in the back garden for consumption? Compare England and the household pig fed on scraps.

    So a good comparison in some ways might actually be dogs in the UK?
    Horses probably more relevant

    The Brits sentimalise - the French eat them
    These days pigs can be sentimentalised too.


  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,889
    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    And @MaxPB fpt re LFT testing in Greece.

    Very very easy. You will get the address (google or recommendation from your hotel) of a friendly doctor's practice, you will rock up, they will wave the swab around in the general vicinity of your face and pronounce you fit to fly.

    €25 very badly spent but what can you do. I slightly bridled at the fact that were it positive you would NOT BE ALLOWED TO FLY INTO YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

    Ponder that, @contrarian -haters.

    Thanks, I was looking into the self administered ones from here which are £30 or so, they also feel like a rip off, especially given that you don't have to actually do them, just get a negative result.
    Yep there is zero incentive to relay the results accurately or even take them.

    But you will need a fit to fly and unless you trust your internet to do one using that then a local docs is your best bet - took me all of 5-8 mins from turning up to the clinic to (miraculous) negative result.

    I then did take the Randox Day 2 test (negative) but pondered the use of doing so.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,852
    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    And @MaxPB fpt re LFT testing in Greece.

    Very very easy. You will get the address (google or recommendation from your hotel) of a friendly doctor's practice, you will rock up, they will wave the swab around in the general vicinity of your face and pronounce you fit to fly.

    €25 very badly spent but what can you do. I slightly bridled at the fact that were it positive you would NOT BE ALLOWED TO FLY INTO YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

    Ponder that, @contrarian -haters.

    You are not allowed to fly while having a communicatable disease
    Is the flu a communicable disease?
    In the sense of being notifiable to the public authorities rather than infectious
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 31,752

    There seems to be clear logic in @Philip_Thompson 's position: if you are still fearful of covid, despite your vaccination status, you are at liberty to spend all your time in public wearing a FFP3 mask while avoiding anywhere that agitates your fear.

    If you are not fearful, and want to try to live your life as normally as possible, then you are equally at liberty to abandon your mask.

    I fit into the latter group, but realise that some people differ.

    So what? Live and let live.

    Lol - what people may or may not be fearful of is not the issue. Public health is the issue. There are plenty of wazzocks out there denying Covid and some of them win a Darwin Award by dying from it.

    We're in the middle of another big spike of pox that isn't going away. You will of course insist that your government-mandated wayward behaviour has nothing to do with it.
    Big spike? Deaths were down this week compared to the week before and were miniscule. If that's what you're considering a big spike then I'm quite happy to live with it.
    As I said, you may be dismissive, the rest of the world is not. The pandemic (not endemic) is still ripping through the globe, with new variants being created and we know how much they are when we get them.

    We may not be dying by the thousand every day thank God. But we are still a massively infected island, infection rates remain very very high compared to most other countries and its no wonder that we remain on restricted country lists in so many places.
    I couldn't care less.

    The entire planet needs to learn to live with the virus. Of course countries that haven't as successfully handled Covid19 as Britain so are less vaccinated than us will be terrified of Delta letting rip there - if I was in New Zealand or Australia right now it'd be a real concern.

    I'm delighted that we vaccinated ourselves first ahead of the world. The rest of the world needs to catch up with us in learning to live with the virus, that's not a bad thing, its just a sign of our huge success that we got there before them.
    Got it. So our vax rates now lagging behind chunks of Europe is cause for delight, and we are right and the rest of the world is wrong.

    The problem of course is that whilst England can think like that it doesn't mean the rest of the world has to agree and do what we say. We're going to end up getting mandatory quarantine going anywhere off this island at this rate.
    That's only because most European countries are using the sleight of hand on measurement of what being vaccinated actually is. We count people with two doses as fully vaccinated, in most of Europe a prior infection and a single jab counts as being fully vaccinated.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,454
    TOPPING said:

    Carnyx said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    And @MaxPB fpt re LFT testing in Greece.

    Very very easy. You will get the address (google or recommendation from your hotel) of a friendly doctor's practice, you will rock up, they will wave the swab around in the general vicinity of your face and pronounce you fit to fly.

    €25 very badly spent but what can you do. I slightly bridled at the fact that were it positive you would NOT BE ALLOWED TO FLY INTO YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

    Ponder that, @contrarian -haters.

    You are not allowed to fly while having a communicatable disease
    Can you please also post the link to that ordinance. I can't find it after a brief google.
    Did you search under "communicable"?
    "flying communicable disease"

    Basic, but I thought it would cover the bases.
    https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb/information/travel-assistance/medical-conditions-and-pregnancy#

    But that is contractual stuff.

    Not allowing people into a country with assorted poxes is basic legal stuff - the means being irrelevant, e.g. Venetian galley, 747, who cares? - but it redounds on the airline in question, so ...
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,279
    Charles said:

    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    @MattW FPT.
    Why are rabbits sentimentalised in Taiwan?

    They are simply a common pet, and an animal not eaten.
    My observation, which kicked off quite a discussion, was in response to someone getting grief for eating guinea pig in Peru.
    The point being that all cultures divide animals into pets, food, vermin and indifferent.
    Not always similarly, nor logically.

    Thanks. Is there a rabbit-eating history similar to how traditionally urban Chinese used to keep carp in the back garden for consumption? Compare England and the household pig fed on scraps.

    So a good comparison in some ways might actually be dogs in the UK?
    Horses probably more relevant

    The Brits sentimalise - the French eat them
    And the Swedes. I had cold sliced horse meat on my open sandwich for breakfast this morning.
  • Carnyx said:

    TOPPING said:

    Carnyx said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    And @MaxPB fpt re LFT testing in Greece.

    Very very easy. You will get the address (google or recommendation from your hotel) of a friendly doctor's practice, you will rock up, they will wave the swab around in the general vicinity of your face and pronounce you fit to fly.

    €25 very badly spent but what can you do. I slightly bridled at the fact that were it positive you would NOT BE ALLOWED TO FLY INTO YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

    Ponder that, @contrarian -haters.

    You are not allowed to fly while having a communicatable disease
    Can you please also post the link to that ordinance. I can't find it after a brief google.
    Did you search under "communicable"?
    "flying communicable disease"

    Basic, but I thought it would cover the bases.
    https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb/information/travel-assistance/medical-conditions-and-pregnancy#

    But that is contractual stuff.

    Not allowing people into a country with assorted poxes is basic legal stuff - the means being irrelevant, e.g. Venetian galley, 747, who cares? - but it redounds on the airline in question, so ...
    From that source: If you have an infectious disease and while it is still contagious, we are not allowed to carry you in line with International Health Regulations.

    Sounds more than just contractual.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,889
    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    And @MaxPB fpt re LFT testing in Greece.

    Very very easy. You will get the address (google or recommendation from your hotel) of a friendly doctor's practice, you will rock up, they will wave the swab around in the general vicinity of your face and pronounce you fit to fly.

    €25 very badly spent but what can you do. I slightly bridled at the fact that were it positive you would NOT BE ALLOWED TO FLY INTO YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

    Ponder that, @contrarian -haters.

    You are not allowed to fly while having a communicatable disease
    Is the flu a communicable disease?
    In the sense of being notifiable to the public authorities rather than infectious
    So are you allowed to fly while having a communicable disease?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,852
    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    And @MaxPB fpt re LFT testing in Greece.

    Very very easy. You will get the address (google or recommendation from your hotel) of a friendly doctor's practice, you will rock up, they will wave the swab around in the general vicinity of your face and pronounce you fit to fly.

    €25 very badly spent but what can you do. I slightly bridled at the fact that were it positive you would NOT BE ALLOWED TO FLY INTO YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

    Ponder that, @contrarian -haters.

    Thanks, I was looking into the self administered ones from here which are £30 or so, they also feel like a rip off, especially given that you don't have to actually do them, just get a negative result. It's completely pointless now that everyone in the UK is eligible to be vaccinated. You probably won't agree but I'd put up a vaccine wall on flying in and out of the UK, anyone who isn't must arrange to be on quarantine flights that will go direct to the 10 day hotel prisons. This testing stuff is just so much hassle and makes weekends away a nightmare to figure out. There's no longer a life where my wife and I can just book a weekend in Rome going on Friday evening and arriving on Monday morning which is quite depressing.
    So you would trade off a substantial reduction in other people’s freedom so you can enjoy a weekend away?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,889
    Carnyx said:

    TOPPING said:

    Carnyx said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    And @MaxPB fpt re LFT testing in Greece.

    Very very easy. You will get the address (google or recommendation from your hotel) of a friendly doctor's practice, you will rock up, they will wave the swab around in the general vicinity of your face and pronounce you fit to fly.

    €25 very badly spent but what can you do. I slightly bridled at the fact that were it positive you would NOT BE ALLOWED TO FLY INTO YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

    Ponder that, @contrarian -haters.

    You are not allowed to fly while having a communicatable disease
    Can you please also post the link to that ordinance. I can't find it after a brief google.
    Did you search under "communicable"?
    "flying communicable disease"

    Basic, but I thought it would cover the bases.
    https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb/information/travel-assistance/medical-conditions-and-pregnancy#

    But that is contractual stuff.

    Not allowing people into a country with assorted poxes is basic legal stuff - the means being irrelevant, e.g. Venetian galley, 747, who cares? - but it redounds on the airline in question, so ...
    Would appreciate the link (on gov.uk?) to that effect.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,454

    Charles said:

    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    @MattW FPT.
    Why are rabbits sentimentalised in Taiwan?

    They are simply a common pet, and an animal not eaten.
    My observation, which kicked off quite a discussion, was in response to someone getting grief for eating guinea pig in Peru.
    The point being that all cultures divide animals into pets, food, vermin and indifferent.
    Not always similarly, nor logically.

    Thanks. Is there a rabbit-eating history similar to how traditionally urban Chinese used to keep carp in the back garden for consumption? Compare England and the household pig fed on scraps.

    So a good comparison in some ways might actually be dogs in the UK?
    Horses probably more relevant

    The Brits sentimalise - the French eat them
    And the Swedes. I had cold sliced horse meat on my open sandwich for breakfast this morning.
    Not so long on a geological timescale since they sacrificed them to Odin and had the resulting meat for a feast.
  • Endillion said:

    DavidL said:

    What makes them think that he has done anything in the last 4 months?

    I said six month ago (ish) that Liz Truss was doing more for Britain and for foreign affairs in her role than the actual Foreign Secretary.

    Nothing has changed that opinion.
    Her department described as "Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V" by Whitehall mandarins for the copy and paste continuation deals being touted as new.
    Ignoring the last four words of your post for a minute, isn't that literally her job for the time being? And wasn't part of the argument against Brexit that we wouldn't be able to secure equally attractive terms on our own merits, without the EU's greater buying/negotiating power? In which case she is doing a smashing job in rolling them forwards.
    Sure! We needed to roll over the trade deals we left when we exited the EU. Nobody is saying that she shouldn't be doing this.

    What I think they are referring to is her claim that these are new deals. Whilst they are a new bilateral agreement they are not new trading arrangements. And yet the claim is made repeatedly that they are.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,101
    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    And @MaxPB fpt re LFT testing in Greece.

    Very very easy. You will get the address (google or recommendation from your hotel) of a friendly doctor's practice, you will rock up, they will wave the swab around in the general vicinity of your face and pronounce you fit to fly.

    €25 very badly spent but what can you do. I slightly bridled at the fact that were it positive you would NOT BE ALLOWED TO FLY INTO YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

    Ponder that, @contrarian -haters.

    Thanks, I was looking into the self administered ones from here which are £30 or so, they also feel like a rip off, especially given that you don't have to actually do them, just get a negative result. It's completely pointless now that everyone in the UK is eligible to be vaccinated. You probably won't agree but I'd put up a vaccine wall on flying in and out of the UK, anyone who isn't must arrange to be on quarantine flights that will go direct to the 10 day hotel prisons. This testing stuff is just so much hassle and makes weekends away a nightmare to figure out. There's no longer a life where my wife and I can just book a weekend in Rome going on Friday evening and arriving on Monday morning which is quite depressing.
    I agree. Depressing and pointless.

    I haven't gone abroad since last January. Yet I have been to two weddings and numerous family events, plus trade fairs with hundreds of people. I have a much higher risk of having caught anything than from a holiday to a place which may have a lower prevalence of Covid than here.

    Scrap the tests. Get back to normal. Covid is another risk. We have to live with it now.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,852
    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    And @MaxPB fpt re LFT testing in Greece.

    Very very easy. You will get the address (google or recommendation from your hotel) of a friendly doctor's practice, you will rock up, they will wave the swab around in the general vicinity of your face and pronounce you fit to fly.

    €25 very badly spent but what can you do. I slightly bridled at the fact that were it positive you would NOT BE ALLOWED TO FLY INTO YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

    Ponder that, @contrarian -haters.

    You are not allowed to fly while having a communicatable disease
    Is the flu a communicable disease?
    In the sense of being notifiable to the public authorities rather than infectious
    So are you allowed to fly while having a communicable disease?
    See @Philip_Thompson at 14:01
  • Raab C Brexit is on the rocks. Tom Tugendhat is already poking the stick.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,144
    Carnyx said:

    Further on Dunkirk being invoked, or not as the case may be, Mr Reckless seems to think it was an airlift:

    https://twitter.com/MarkReckless/status/1432810200155688966

    Using the little fishing aircraft from Southend Airfield.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,389
    Covid vaccination passports now required for the Lyceum Theatre in the West End

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1433053756078317572?s=20
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,411
    edited September 1
    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    @MattW FPT.
    Why are rabbits sentimentalised in Taiwan?

    They are simply a common pet, and an animal not eaten.
    My observation, which kicked off quite a discussion, was in response to someone getting grief for eating guinea pig in Peru.
    The point being that all cultures divide animals into pets, food, vermin and indifferent.
    Not always similarly, nor logically.

    Thanks. Is there a rabbit-eating history similar to how traditionally urban Chinese used to keep carp in the back garden for consumption? Compare England and the household pig fed on scraps.

    So a good comparison in some ways might actually be dogs in the UK?
    Food is one of the ways Taiwan is distinctly unChinese. Being a mountainous, rainforest island, they never suffered from frequent famines, nor do they have much land for livestock raising. Most of it is given over to rice.
    So they eat almost anything and everything out of the sea. But chicken and pork really from the land. Beef less so. Mutton rare, and I think probably all imported for Mongolian hotpots. Almost nothing else.
    Not the weird and wonderful variety of fauna eaten in bits of China.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 704

    DavidL said:

    What makes them think that he has done anything in the last 4 months?

    I said six month ago (ish) that Liz Truss was doing more for Britain and for foreign affairs in her role than the actual Foreign Secretary.

    Nothing has changed that opinion.
    Her department described as "Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V" by Whitehall mandarins for the copy and paste continuation deals being touted as new.
    Civil servants scornful about Brexit-related policy? Surely not!
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 10,924
    HYUFD said:

    There seems to be clear logic in @Philip_Thompson 's position: if you are still fearful of covid, despite your vaccination status, you are at liberty to spend all your time in public wearing a FFP3 mask while avoiding anywhere that agitates your fear.

    If you are not fearful, and want to try to live your life as normally as possible, then you are equally at liberty to abandon your mask.

    I fit into the latter group, but realise that some people differ.

    So what? Live and let live.

    Lol - what people may or may not be fearful of is not the issue. Public health is the issue. There are plenty of wazzocks out there denying Covid and some of them win a Darwin Award by dying from it.

    We're in the middle of another big spike of pox that isn't going away. You will of course insist that your government-mandated wayward behaviour has nothing to do with it.
    Big spike? Deaths were down this week compared to the week before and were miniscule. If that's what you're considering a big spike then I'm quite happy to live with it.
    As I said, you may be dismissive, the rest of the world is not. The pandemic (not endemic) is still ripping through the globe, with new variants being created and we know how much they are when we get them.

    We may not be dying by the thousand every day thank God. But we are still a massively infected island, infection rates remain very very high compared to most other countries and its no wonder that we remain on restricted country lists in so many places.
    I couldn't care less.

    The entire planet needs to learn to live with the virus. Of course countries that haven't as successfully handled Covid19 as Britain so are less vaccinated than us will be terrified of Delta letting rip there - if I was in New Zealand or Australia right now it'd be a real concern.

    I'm delighted that we vaccinated ourselves first ahead of the world. The rest of the world needs to catch up with us in learning to live with the virus, that's not a bad thing, its just a sign of our huge success that we got there before them.
    Got it. So our vax rates now lagging behind chunks of Europe is cause for delight, and we are right and the rest of the world is wrong.

    The problem of course is that whilst England can think like that it doesn't mean the rest of the world has to agree and do what we say. We're going to end up getting mandatory quarantine going anywhere off this island at this rate.
    Which would still be better than mandatory isolation, travel bans and never ending lockdowns which NZ and Australia have now due to their low vaccination rates compared to ours
    Absolutely agreed – the Damocles Sword Lockdown / Prison Island model is beyond oppressive. The New Zealanders are still in the obdeient-sanguine phase, but the Australians are starting to twitch.

    The deal here: No Restrictions – Moderate Risk is probably the best we can hope for at the moment.
  • Aslan said:

    DavidL said:

    What makes them think that he has done anything in the last 4 months?

    I said six month ago (ish) that Liz Truss was doing more for Britain and for foreign affairs in her role than the actual Foreign Secretary.

    Nothing has changed that opinion.
    Her department described as "Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V" by Whitehall mandarins for the copy and paste continuation deals being touted as new.
    Civil servants scornful about Brexit-related policy? Surely not!
    About the politics more than the policy. We absolutely have to recreate all the trade deals we abandoned when we quit the EU. They just aren't "new" in the way they are being billed. Unless the status quo ante is "new".
  • Endillion said:

    DavidL said:

    What makes them think that he has done anything in the last 4 months?

    I said six month ago (ish) that Liz Truss was doing more for Britain and for foreign affairs in her role than the actual Foreign Secretary.

    Nothing has changed that opinion.
    Her department described as "Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V" by Whitehall mandarins for the copy and paste continuation deals being touted as new.
    Ignoring the last four words of your post for a minute, isn't that literally her job for the time being? And wasn't part of the argument against Brexit that we wouldn't be able to secure equally attractive terms on our own merits, without the EU's greater buying/negotiating power? In which case she is doing a smashing job in rolling them forwards.
    Sure! We needed to roll over the trade deals we left when we exited the EU. Nobody is saying that she shouldn't be doing this.

    What I think they are referring to is her claim that these are new deals. Whilst they are a new bilateral agreement they are not new trading arrangements. And yet the claim is made repeatedly that they are.
    You mentioned yesterday that you hoped to be selected for the lib dems and I did ask if you would campaign for the union

    I would be interested in your reply
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,889
    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    And @MaxPB fpt re LFT testing in Greece.

    Very very easy. You will get the address (google or recommendation from your hotel) of a friendly doctor's practice, you will rock up, they will wave the swab around in the general vicinity of your face and pronounce you fit to fly.

    €25 very badly spent but what can you do. I slightly bridled at the fact that were it positive you would NOT BE ALLOWED TO FLY INTO YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

    Ponder that, @contrarian -haters.

    You are not allowed to fly while having a communicatable disease
    Is the flu a communicable disease?
    In the sense of being notifiable to the public authorities rather than infectious
    So are you allowed to fly while having a communicable disease?
    See @Philip_Thompson at 14:01
    Yes I saw that. Can you post me the bit about not being allowed to fly while having a communicable disease.

    Does this mean that people have never flown or been allowed to fly while they have had the flu?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 10,924

    There seems to be clear logic in @Philip_Thompson 's position: if you are still fearful of covid, despite your vaccination status, you are at liberty to spend all your time in public wearing a FFP3 mask while avoiding anywhere that agitates your fear.

    If you are not fearful, and want to try to live your life as normally as possible, then you are equally at liberty to abandon your mask.

    I fit into the latter group, but realise that some people differ.

    So what? Live and let live.

    Lol - what people may or may not be fearful of is not the issue. Public health is the issue. There are plenty of wazzocks out there denying Covid and some of them win a Darwin Award by dying from it.

    We're in the middle of another big spike of pox that isn't going away. You will of course insist that your government-mandated wayward behaviour has nothing to do with it.
    Big spike? Deaths were down this week compared to the week before and were miniscule. If that's what you're considering a big spike then I'm quite happy to live with it.
    As I said, you may be dismissive, the rest of the world is not. The pandemic (not endemic) is still ripping through the globe, with new variants being created and we know how much they are when we get them.

    We may not be dying by the thousand every day thank God. But we are still a massively infected island, infection rates remain very very high compared to most other countries and its no wonder that we remain on restricted country lists in so many places.
    I couldn't care less.

    The entire planet needs to learn to live with the virus. Of course countries that haven't as successfully handled Covid19 as Britain so are less vaccinated than us will be terrified of Delta letting rip there - if I was in New Zealand or Australia right now it'd be a real concern.

    I'm delighted that we vaccinated ourselves first ahead of the world. The rest of the world needs to catch up with us in learning to live with the virus, that's not a bad thing, its just a sign of our huge success that we got there before them.
    Got it. So our vax rates now lagging behind chunks of Europe is cause for delight, and we are right and the rest of the world is wrong.

    The problem of course is that whilst England can think like that it doesn't mean the rest of the world has to agree and do what we say. We're going to end up getting mandatory quarantine going anywhere off this island at this rate.
    You've become completely irrational, or perhaps hysterical would be a better word.
    Presumably he turns down every invitation to pubs, parties, weddings etc and will refuse to send his children to school when they return next week? Because if not, and his only risk mitigation is wearing a mask in Tesco's, then he is not just hysterical, he is also disingenuous.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 34,480

    There seems to be clear logic in @Philip_Thompson 's position: if you are still fearful of covid, despite your vaccination status, you are at liberty to spend all your time in public wearing a FFP3 mask while avoiding anywhere that agitates your fear.

    If you are not fearful, and want to try to live your life as normally as possible, then you are equally at liberty to abandon your mask.

    I fit into the latter group, but realise that some people differ.

    So what? Live and let live.

    Lol - what people may or may not be fearful of is not the issue. Public health is the issue. There are plenty of wazzocks out there denying Covid and some of them win a Darwin Award by dying from it.

    We're in the middle of another big spike of pox that isn't going away. You will of course insist that your government-mandated wayward behaviour has nothing to do with it.
    Big spike? Deaths were down this week compared to the week before and were miniscule. If that's what you're considering a big spike then I'm quite happy to live with it.

    There seems to be clear logic in @Philip_Thompson 's position: if you are still fearful of covid, despite your vaccination status, you are at liberty to spend all your time in public wearing a FFP3 mask while avoiding anywhere that agitates your fear.

    If you are not fearful, and want to try to live your life as normally as possible, then you are equally at liberty to abandon your mask.

    I fit into the latter group, but realise that some people differ.

    So what? Live and let live.

    Lol - what people may or may not be fearful of is not the issue. Public health is the issue. There are plenty of wazzocks out there denying Covid and some of them win a Darwin Award by dying from it.

    We're in the middle of another big spike of pox that isn't going away. You will of course insist that your government-mandated wayward behaviour has nothing to do with it.
    Big spike? Deaths were down this week compared to the week before and were miniscule. If that's what you're considering a big spike then I'm quite happy to live with it.
    Philip

    Genuine question

    Could you tell me what job you do? I would love to apply for a similar one, as you always seem to find the time during the day to be on here.
    CCHQ
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,411
    Super spicy rabbit's head is a delicacy associated with Sichuan.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 10,924
    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    And @MaxPB fpt re LFT testing in Greece.

    Very very easy. You will get the address (google or recommendation from your hotel) of a friendly doctor's practice, you will rock up, they will wave the swab around in the general vicinity of your face and pronounce you fit to fly.

    €25 very badly spent but what can you do. I slightly bridled at the fact that were it positive you would NOT BE ALLOWED TO FLY INTO YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

    Ponder that, @contrarian -haters.

    You are not allowed to fly while having a communicatable disease
    Is the flu a communicable disease?
    In the sense of being notifiable to the public authorities rather than infectious
    So are you allowed to fly while having a communicable disease?
    See @Philip_Thompson at 14:01
    Yes I saw that. Can you post me the bit about not being allowed to fly while having a communicable disease.

    Does this mean that people have never flown or been allowed to fly while they have had the flu?
    Yep, I'm calling BS on that. I have literally sat next to people who obviously have the Common Cold. No hard words from the stewardess as she handed them the balsam tissues.
  • Aslan said:

    DavidL said:

    What makes them think that he has done anything in the last 4 months?

    I said six month ago (ish) that Liz Truss was doing more for Britain and for foreign affairs in her role than the actual Foreign Secretary.

    Nothing has changed that opinion.
    Her department described as "Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V" by Whitehall mandarins for the copy and paste continuation deals being touted as new.
    Civil servants scornful about Brexit-related policy? Surely not!
    About the politics more than the policy. We absolutely have to recreate all the trade deals we abandoned when we quit the EU. They just aren't "new" in the way they are being billed. Unless the status quo ante is "new".
    That's amusing because I recall repeatedly being told before Truss was in place what a nightmare renegotiating all of those deals would be.

    I seem to recall saying the smart thing to do would be for pre-existing deals is to copy and paste the existing deals where possible to get the new deals - and I was laughed at by multiple Remainers on here for suggesting that and was repeatedly told that wouldn't be possible and that we'd be "over a barrel" and other countries would "hold all the cards" and we couldn't possibly get the same terms outside the EU.

    Then Truss did exactly what I said we should do - and that Remainers said was impossible - and now Remainers like yourself [including now yourself since your jump to the Lib Dems] claim that its not important and something to be scornful about.

    Funny how that works isn't it?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,192

    Charles said:

    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    @MattW FPT.
    Why are rabbits sentimentalised in Taiwan?

    They are simply a common pet, and an animal not eaten.
    My observation, which kicked off quite a discussion, was in response to someone getting grief for eating guinea pig in Peru.
    The point being that all cultures divide animals into pets, food, vermin and indifferent.
    Not always similarly, nor logically.

    Thanks. Is there a rabbit-eating history similar to how traditionally urban Chinese used to keep carp in the back garden for consumption? Compare England and the household pig fed on scraps.

    So a good comparison in some ways might actually be dogs in the UK?
    Horses probably more relevant

    The Brits sentimalise - the French eat them
    And the Swedes. I had cold sliced horse meat on my open sandwich for breakfast this morning.
    I take it your neigh joking?
  • TazTaz Posts: 2,459
    Aslan said:

    DavidL said:

    What makes them think that he has done anything in the last 4 months?

    I said six month ago (ish) that Liz Truss was doing more for Britain and for foreign affairs in her role than the actual Foreign Secretary.

    Nothing has changed that opinion.
    Her department described as "Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V" by Whitehall mandarins for the copy and paste continuation deals being touted as new.
    Civil servants scornful about Brexit-related policy? Surely not!
    Indeed, it’s so out of character.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,889

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    And @MaxPB fpt re LFT testing in Greece.

    Very very easy. You will get the address (google or recommendation from your hotel) of a friendly doctor's practice, you will rock up, they will wave the swab around in the general vicinity of your face and pronounce you fit to fly.

    €25 very badly spent but what can you do. I slightly bridled at the fact that were it positive you would NOT BE ALLOWED TO FLY INTO YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

    Ponder that, @contrarian -haters.

    You are not allowed to fly while having a communicatable disease
    Is the flu a communicable disease?
    In the sense of being notifiable to the public authorities rather than infectious
    So are you allowed to fly while having a communicable disease?
    See @Philip_Thompson at 14:01
    Yes I saw that. Can you post me the bit about not being allowed to fly while having a communicable disease.

    Does this mean that people have never flown or been allowed to fly while they have had the flu?
    Yep, I'm calling BS on that. I have literally sat next to people who obviously have the Common Cold. No hard words from the stewardess as she handed them the balsam tissues.
    I can find something on Yellow Fever (https://www.who.int/csr/ihr/WHA58-en.pdf) which gives states afaics the right to refuse entry to unvaxxed people. But that's about it.

    But not to worry. @Charles will supply us with chapter and verse.

    He seemed so confident and I am looking forward to reading the actual ordinance.
  • Endillion said:

    DavidL said:

    What makes them think that he has done anything in the last 4 months?

    I said six month ago (ish) that Liz Truss was doing more for Britain and for foreign affairs in her role than the actual Foreign Secretary.

    Nothing has changed that opinion.
    Her department described as "Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V" by Whitehall mandarins for the copy and paste continuation deals being touted as new.
    Ignoring the last four words of your post for a minute, isn't that literally her job for the time being? And wasn't part of the argument against Brexit that we wouldn't be able to secure equally attractive terms on our own merits, without the EU's greater buying/negotiating power? In which case she is doing a smashing job in rolling them forwards.
    Sure! We needed to roll over the trade deals we left when we exited the EU. Nobody is saying that she shouldn't be doing this.

    What I think they are referring to is her claim that these are new deals. Whilst they are a new bilateral agreement they are not new trading arrangements. And yet the claim is made repeatedly that they are.
    You mentioned yesterday that you hoped to be selected for the lib dems and I did ask if you would campaign for the union

    I would be interested in your reply
    I don't understand the question. I am a member of a federalist party. I campaigned for them against the SNP government this year. We want to sustain the union by replacing the failed current union with a new written federal UK constitution that both encompasses national parliaments and as much local devolution (to Mayors for example) as people want.

    Will I campaign to preserve the status quo? No. Do I want scottish independence? No. But we WILL end up independent unless the union is made fit for the future. Westminster choosing to expel NI from the free trade zone and telling Scotland their votes count for nothing imperils the whole shebang.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,852
    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    And @MaxPB fpt re LFT testing in Greece.

    Very very easy. You will get the address (google or recommendation from your hotel) of a friendly doctor's practice, you will rock up, they will wave the swab around in the general vicinity of your face and pronounce you fit to fly.

    €25 very badly spent but what can you do. I slightly bridled at the fact that were it positive you would NOT BE ALLOWED TO FLY INTO YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

    Ponder that, @contrarian -haters.

    You are not allowed to fly while having a communicatable disease
    Is the flu a communicable disease?
    In the sense of being notifiable to the public authorities rather than infectious
    So are you allowed to fly while having a communicable disease?
    See @Philip_Thompson at 14:01
    Yes I saw that. Can you post me the bit about not being allowed to fly while having a communicable disease.

    Does this mean that people have never flown or been allowed to fly while they have had the flu?
    Notifiable. Not flu.
  • There seems to be clear logic in @Philip_Thompson 's position: if you are still fearful of covid, despite your vaccination status, you are at liberty to spend all your time in public wearing a FFP3 mask while avoiding anywhere that agitates your fear.

    If you are not fearful, and want to try to live your life as normally as possible, then you are equally at liberty to abandon your mask.

    I fit into the latter group, but realise that some people differ.

    So what? Live and let live.

    Lol - what people may or may not be fearful of is not the issue. Public health is the issue. There are plenty of wazzocks out there denying Covid and some of them win a Darwin Award by dying from it.

    We're in the middle of another big spike of pox that isn't going away. You will of course insist that your government-mandated wayward behaviour has nothing to do with it.
    Big spike? Deaths were down this week compared to the week before and were miniscule. If that's what you're considering a big spike then I'm quite happy to live with it.
    As I said, you may be dismissive, the rest of the world is not. The pandemic (not endemic) is still ripping through the globe, with new variants being created and we know how much they are when we get them.

    We may not be dying by the thousand every day thank God. But we are still a massively infected island, infection rates remain very very high compared to most other countries and its no wonder that we remain on restricted country lists in so many places.
    I couldn't care less.

    The entire planet needs to learn to live with the virus. Of course countries that haven't as successfully handled Covid19 as Britain so are less vaccinated than us will be terrified of Delta letting rip there - if I was in New Zealand or Australia right now it'd be a real concern.

    I'm delighted that we vaccinated ourselves first ahead of the world. The rest of the world needs to catch up with us in learning to live with the virus, that's not a bad thing, its just a sign of our huge success that we got there before them.
    Got it. So our vax rates now lagging behind chunks of Europe is cause for delight, and we are right and the rest of the world is wrong.

    The problem of course is that whilst England can think like that it doesn't mean the rest of the world has to agree and do what we say. We're going to end up getting mandatory quarantine going anywhere off this island at this rate.
    You've become completely irrational, or perhaps hysterical would be a better word.
    Presumably he turns down every invitation to pubs, parties, weddings etc and will refuse to send his children to school when they return next week? Because if not, and his only risk mitigation is wearing a mask in Tesco's, then he is not just hysterical, he is also disingenuous.
    I do love you two. Absolutist extremism at its finest. My kids "went back" 3 weeks ago. My son wears a mask in school as everyone in high school does as we try to contain the schools return spike.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,454
    TOPPING said:

    Carnyx said:

    TOPPING said:

    Carnyx said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    And @MaxPB fpt re LFT testing in Greece.

    Very very easy. You will get the address (google or recommendation from your hotel) of a friendly doctor's practice, you will rock up, they will wave the swab around in the general vicinity of your face and pronounce you fit to fly.

    €25 very badly spent but what can you do. I slightly bridled at the fact that were it positive you would NOT BE ALLOWED TO FLY INTO YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

    Ponder that, @contrarian -haters.

    You are not allowed to fly while having a communicatable disease
    Can you please also post the link to that ordinance. I can't find it after a brief google.
    Did you search under "communicable"?
    "flying communicable disease"

    Basic, but I thought it would cover the bases.
    https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb/information/travel-assistance/medical-conditions-and-pregnancy#

    But that is contractual stuff.

    Not allowing people into a country with assorted poxes is basic legal stuff - the means being irrelevant, e.g. Venetian galley, 747, who cares? - but it redounds on the airline in question, so ...
    Would appreciate the link (on gov.uk?) to that effect.
    I'll leave that to Charles - now on a very tricky part of my annual financial check up and tax return ... (from which I am skiving occasionally to dip in)
  • Endillion said:

    DavidL said:

    What makes them think that he has done anything in the last 4 months?

    I said six month ago (ish) that Liz Truss was doing more for Britain and for foreign affairs in her role than the actual Foreign Secretary.

    Nothing has changed that opinion.
    Her department described as "Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V" by Whitehall mandarins for the copy and paste continuation deals being touted as new.
    Ignoring the last four words of your post for a minute, isn't that literally her job for the time being? And wasn't part of the argument against Brexit that we wouldn't be able to secure equally attractive terms on our own merits, without the EU's greater buying/negotiating power? In which case she is doing a smashing job in rolling them forwards.
    Sure! We needed to roll over the trade deals we left when we exited the EU. Nobody is saying that she shouldn't be doing this.

    What I think they are referring to is her claim that these are new deals. Whilst they are a new bilateral agreement they are not new trading arrangements. And yet the claim is made repeatedly that they are.
    You mentioned yesterday that you hoped to be selected for the lib dems and I did ask if you would campaign for the union

    I would be interested in your reply
    I don't understand the question. I am a member of a federalist party. I campaigned for them against the SNP government this year. We want to sustain the union by replacing the failed current union with a new written federal UK constitution that both encompasses national parliaments and as much local devolution (to Mayors for example) as people want.

    Will I campaign to preserve the status quo? No. Do I want scottish independence? No. But we WILL end up independent unless the union is made fit for the future. Westminster choosing to expel NI from the free trade zone and telling Scotland their votes count for nothing imperils the whole shebang.
    Seems a complex way of saying you agree with lib dem policy in support of the Union and you will campaign against independence
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,852

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    And @MaxPB fpt re LFT testing in Greece.

    Very very easy. You will get the address (google or recommendation from your hotel) of a friendly doctor's practice, you will rock up, they will wave the swab around in the general vicinity of your face and pronounce you fit to fly.

    €25 very badly spent but what can you do. I slightly bridled at the fact that were it positive you would NOT BE ALLOWED TO FLY INTO YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

    Ponder that, @contrarian -haters.

    You are not allowed to fly while having a communicatable disease
    Is the flu a communicable disease?
    In the sense of being notifiable to the public authorities rather than infectious
    So are you allowed to fly while having a communicable disease?
    See @Philip_Thompson at 14:01
    Yes I saw that. Can you post me the bit about not being allowed to fly while having a communicable disease.

    Does this mean that people have never flown or been allowed to fly while they have had the flu?
    Yep, I'm calling BS on that. I have literally sat next to people who obviously have the Common Cold. No hard words from the stewardess as she handed them the balsam tissues.
    I meant notifiable.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 34,480
    TOPPING said:

    Berating Raab is just people using him as a proxy for the US actions of the past 60 20 years.

    It achieved nothing, he couldn't have achieved much on his own, but makes everyone feel better for no noticeable gain.

    He could at least have pretended he was was on the job , rather than lying on a beach and saying FU Afghans
This discussion has been closed.