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The afternoon must watch – politicalbetting.com

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  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620

    Either tactical voting yourself or advocating voters vote against your party is grounds to get you expelled from the party.
    HYUFD, your wording is, erm, unclear - do you mean mean tactical voting is Tory party policy? Or that saving the glorious Union is party policy so you can do what you like? On that same logic you could do all sorts of other things like giving Mr Sarwar £5m to help Slab's electoral campaigning. I'll get that nice Mr Sarwar to send every Epping councillor a fundraising pack, shall I?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,062
    edited September 2021
    Pulpstar said:

    This sort of argument reminds me of the GOP in the USA and quite frankly the nonsense of the 2017-19 parliament. It's attempting to deny agency to Scottish voters in the same way the Brexit vote should have been annulled because parliamentarians knew best or the state legislatures should override the democratic will of each state.
    A most unbecoming argument.
    It works in Spain fine, Madrid has not even allowed the Catalan legislature one independence referendum because correctly on Union matters the central government has the final say on whether independence referendums are allowed.

    Holyrood is merely a subsidiary creation of Westminster after all
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,303
    rcs1000 said:

    Given that one dose plus an infection seems to confer greater immunity to Delta than "double dosed", I'm struggling to see a sleight of hand here. It sounds - just like our extending of the period between doses - as a very sensible way of rationing scarce vaccine resources, and maximising protection.
    As we don't count this the same, it does mean that comparing our numbers to the French etc. is comparing apples to oranges. I'm single jabbed and have just had Covid - in France I would show up on the fully vaxed numbers, whereas here I won't until I get another jab.

    Out of interest, do they not offer second doses to those who are known to have had prior infection? Or is it just that they have moved the "what counts as fully vaxed" goalpost compared to the UK?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,180

    I'm sorry if colleagues are beginning to bridle at my remark.
    If only @ydoethur was here. I am sure he would be trotting out the puns faster than we could type.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620

    Indeed. No party tolerates their candidates encouraging electors to vote for a different party.
    Except SLAB, of course.
  • kinabalu said:

    I thought Rochdale favoured Sindy now?
    I favour holding the referendum that is the clearly expressed will of the Scottish people. I do not favour Scotland gaining independence. It will happen though unless we face into the wreck of this union and try to fix it.
  • kinabalu said:

    Bore your way out of trouble. I've seen it work.
    I suspect Raab's career is on the line as is his seat at the next election

    However, in the wider public they have seen us leave Afghanistan with no service casualties in the process, and evacuated a large number of those who qualify to be here in the UK.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620
    DavidL said:

    If only @ydoethur was here. I am sure he would be trotting out the puns faster than we could type.
    He'd jump at it. At a gallop, too.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,705
    DavidL said:

    There's hundreds of them. A sample
    Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions and Functions of Local Authorities) (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2020/1409
    Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions) (No. 4) (Wales) Regulations 2020/1219
    Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions) (No. 5) (Wales) (Amendment) (No. 10) Regulations 2021/583
    Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions) (No. 5) (Wales) (Amendment) (No. 7) Regulations 2021/457
    Health Protection (Coronavirus) (Wales) Regulations 2020/308
    Health Protection (Coronavirus) Regulations 2020/129
    Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel and Information for Passengers) (England) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2021/452
    Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel and Information for Passengers) (England) (Amendment) Regulations 2021/252
    Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel and Operator Liability) (England) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2021/670
    Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel and Operator Liability) (England) (Amendment) (No. 3) Regulations 2021/731
    Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel and Operator Liability) (England) (Amendment) (No. 4) Regulations 2021/766
    Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel and Operator Liability) (England) (Amendment) (No. 5) Regulations 2021/795
    Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel and Operator Liability) (England) (Amendment) (No. 6) Regulations 2021/865
    Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel and Operator Liability) (England) (Amendment) (No. 7) Regulations 2021/914
    Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel and Operator Liability) (England) (Amendment) (No. 8) Regulations 2021/923
    Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel and Operator Liability) (England) (Amendment) (No. 9) Regulations 2021/966
    Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel and Operator Liability) (England) (Amendment) Regulations 2021/589
    Yes. For Coronavirus. I get that. What about any other "notifiable" disease? The flu for example?
  • Indeed. No party tolerates their candidates encouraging electors to vote for a different party.
    With the exception of the Tories. Telling Tory voters to vote tactically against Tory candidates is how you become chair of a Tory Association apparently. And then have the hypocritical gall to start lecturing others about loyalty to the party line.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,234
    rcs1000 said:

    Given that infection with original variant Covid seems to confer 99% protection against reinfection with Delta, I can't possibly imagine that the difference is great enough to justify getting all upset.
    Blimey, is it really that high ?

    Do you get to herd immunity/endemic quicker with a naive population ?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,810
    Alistair said:

    Just working my way through the implications of the Texas abortion bill.

    As far as I can tell a rapist would now be able to successfully sue anyone involved in his victim's abortion if she chose to get one. Unless there is a specific restriction on that I haven't read about.

    It's an absolute shocker. I wonder what the result of a female only referendum in Texas would be?
  • HYUFD said:

    Scottish Labour has reversed its opposition to nuclear weapons, certainly at UK level
    https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2019/11/26/scottish-labour-ditches-opposition-to-trident-renewal-for-uk-election/

    If I am elected as a Tory I will vote for and implement the Tory manifesto, tactical voting as the best means to preserve the Union, which is Tory policy does not change that
    How can “Scottish Labour” take a decision “at UK level”?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620
    Nigelb said:

    If you're doing pictures of architecture, as opposed to something that moves, the most cost effective low light solution is a tripod.
    The problem I had with buildings was distance when taking pics for my work - higher up was further away so buildings seemed to taper into the distance especially when looking up. There was some sort of solution for this but I forget what it was and that was back in the days of un-compact SLRs with 35mm film and removable lenses.
  • dr_spyn said:

    Just as well Sir Edward Grey wasn't grilled by MPs about his extensive knowledge of Bosnia Herzegovina in 1914.

    The Express carried a surprisingly useful piece on Grey on the anniversary of the Great War.
    Great War Centenary: Sir Edward Grey - the possible spark for the Great War
    SIR EDWARD GREY is known to everyone because of a single, immortal quotation.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/world-war-1/473940/Great-War-Centenary-Sir-Edward-Grey-the-possible-spark-for-the-Great-War
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620
    edited September 2021
    HYUFD said:

    Apart from in Scotland, even the Scottish Conservative leader did not oppose tactical voting against the SNP given the main divide there is Unionist v Nationalist
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/04/08/scottish-tory-leader-urges-voters-back-labour-libdems-seats/
    Well, he needs ot be expelled promptly [edit] from the SCUP. He'd give the red card to anyone running onto the pitch in the wrong shirt.
  • Pulpstar said:

    It's one thing to vote against proposing a referendum. It's quite another to still oppose that referendum after the vote by the Scottish Parliament has been passed.
    I wonder if SLAB or SLID (The Tories won't) will pivot at that stage. Because once that point has been crossed it's less arguing against an indy ref, more arguing against devolved democracy itself.
    That is an red line SLab and SLD cannot afford to cross. That would shift them from being anti-sovereignty to anti-Scottish
  • Patrick Harvie, 22 July:

    The UK Government is destroying public trust, as well as increasing the human cost in lives and health harm.......

    In the wake of the existing generational injustice made worse by Covid, vaccine passports would deepen discrimination against those who have not yet been vaccinated. It would deepen inequality at a time when the country needs collective effort. Worse still, the confusion allows the anti-vaxxers who marched in London to spread misinformation about the safety and purpose of the vaccine itself.


    https://www.thenational.scot/news/19462951.vaccine-passports-inequality-will-deepen-jag-proof-needed/

    Lets see what tune he sings when Scotland does it....
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,303
    Nigelb said:

    It is an abysmal law which invites frivolous prosecutions which could bankrupt individuals or organisations, since it allows any private individual to bring a case, and explicitly prevents any defendant from recovering their legal costs.
    Isn't it also the inevitable result of conducting activities which should have been matters of legislation by "lawfare" and judicial activism instead.
    It's not a pretty piece of legislation (although one has to admire the ingenuity of whoever came up with it as a way of sidestepping the current legal situation), but it's also hardly surprising we've ended up here, when all other roads are blocked.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620

    Patrick Harvie, 22 July:

    The UK Government is destroying public trust, as well as increasing the human cost in lives and health harm.......

    In the wake of the existing generational injustice made worse by Covid, vaccine passports would deepen discrimination against those who have not yet been vaccinated. It would deepen inequality at a time when the country needs collective effort. Worse still, the confusion allows the anti-vaxxers who marched in London to spread misinformation about the safety and purpose of the vaccine itself.


    https://www.thenational.scot/news/19462951.vaccine-passports-inequality-will-deepen-jag-proof-needed/

    Lets see what tune he sings when Scotland does it....

    They've agreed to differ with the SNP on a range of matters. Can't recall if this is one, mind.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,132
    Carnyx said:

    The problem I had with buildings was distance when taking pics for my work - higher up was further away so buildings seemed to taper into the distance especially when looking up. There was some sort of solution for this but I forget what it was and that was back in the days of un-compact SLRs with 35mm film and removable lenses.

    The Old World solution was a camera in which you could tilt the plane of the film to match the building and offset the lens.

    There is probably a digital 'filter' to do that now...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,062
    Carnyx said:

    Well, he needs ot be expelled promptly [edit] from the SCUP. He'd give the red card to anyone running onto the pitch in the wrong shirt.
    You can't expel the elected leader and plenty of Scottish Tories felt the same way, Labour only held Dumbarton and Edinburgh Southern and the LDs only held Edinburgh Western and North East Fife because of tactical votes from Scottish Tories to keep out the SNP.

    The SNP failed to get a majority due to Unionist tactical voting
  • Patrick Harvie, 22 July:

    The UK Government is destroying public trust, as well as increasing the human cost in lives and health harm.......

    In the wake of the existing generational injustice made worse by Covid, vaccine passports would deepen discrimination against those who have not yet been vaccinated. It would deepen inequality at a time when the country needs collective effort. Worse still, the confusion allows the anti-vaxxers who marched in London to spread misinformation about the safety and purpose of the vaccine itself.


    https://www.thenational.scot/news/19462951.vaccine-passports-inequality-will-deepen-jag-proof-needed/

    Lets see what tune he sings when Scotland does it....

    We're much further along from 22nd July. I am quite happy to "deepen discrimination against those who have not yet been vaccinated" as the opportunity for every adult to get jabbed is there.

    Vaccine passports though open the door to all kinds of other "your papers please" authoritarianism and should be opposed.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,062
    edited September 2021

    That is an red line SLab and SLD cannot afford to cross. That would shift them from being anti-sovereignty to anti-Scottish
    Hardly, only 35% of Scots want indyref2 before the end of 2023 as Sturgeon does.


    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scots-split-on-snp-mandate-for-referendum-with-independence-top-priority-for-just-one-in-11-3238015
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,400
    theProle said:

    As we don't count this the same, it does mean that comparing our numbers to the French etc. is comparing apples to oranges. I'm single jabbed and have just had Covid - in France I would show up on the fully vaxed numbers, whereas here I won't until I get another jab.

    Out of interest, do they not offer second doses to those who are known to have had prior infection? Or is it just that they have moved the "what counts as fully vaxed" goalpost compared to the UK?
    Giving a second dose to someone who already has 99+% immunity against Delta seems like a pretty stupid waste of resources to me. And I suspect that is their medical advice: people who've been infected and received a dose of a vaccine are highly protected, and do not need an additional vaccine dose.

    Look, if you want to truly compare apples-to-apples, then look at number of doses given per 100 people. But I personally think their decision is the right one, and we should have done similar. Just as EU countries should have followed our decision to lengthen the time between doses.

    There's no monopoly on being right. We were right with the dosing gap. They're right not to waste second doses on people who already have very high levels of protection.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620
    Scott_xP said:

    The Old World solution was a camera in which you could tilt the plane of the film to match the building and offset the lens.

    There is probably a digital 'filter' to do that now...
    That's it, thanks!

    It's worth checking for that digital solution - the problem used to annoy me a lot.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,263
    Nigelb said:

    If you're doing pictures of architecture, as opposed to something that moves, the most cost effective low light solution is a tripod.
    I would agree with that, though many tourist sites ban tripods, so it depends quite what you want to photograph.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,219

    The Express carried a surprisingly useful piece on Grey on the anniversary of the Great War.
    Great War Centenary: Sir Edward Grey - the possible spark for the Great War
    SIR EDWARD GREY is known to everyone because of a single, immortal quotation.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/world-war-1/473940/Great-War-Centenary-Sir-Edward-Grey-the-possible-spark-for-the-Great-War
    "Nearly every malodorous myth about the Great War can be traced back to the literary septic tank that is Lloyd George’s War Memoirs."

    An article in the Express that is interesting and amusing?!!??

    End Times....
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,810

    I favour holding the referendum that is the clearly expressed will of the Scottish people. I do not favour Scotland gaining independence. It will happen though unless we face into the wreck of this union and try to fix it.
    Ah ok. Yes the vote needs to happen. If it doesn't we'll see a (Westminster) 'PARLIAMENT vs the PEOPLE' atmosphere develop and we know how that ends. This is why - oddly - I think a vote now rather than later is better for Unionists than for Nats. They'd be favourites and another No to Sindy would take it off the table.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,733

    I'm sorry if colleagues are beginning to bridle at my remark.
    Surprised @ydoethur isn't around to snaffle the punning opportunity.
  • DavidL said:

    There's hundreds of them. A sample
    Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions and Functions of Local Authorities) (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2020/1409
    Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions) (No. 4) (Wales) Regulations 2020/1219
    Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions) (No. 5) (Wales) (Amendment) (No. 10) Regulations 2021/583
    Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions) (No. 5) (Wales) (Amendment) (No. 7) Regulations 2021/457
    Health Protection (Coronavirus) (Wales) Regulations 2020/308
    Health Protection (Coronavirus) Regulations 2020/129
    Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel and Information for Passengers) (England) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2021/452
    Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel and Information for Passengers) (England) (Amendment) Regulations 2021/252
    Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel and Operator Liability) (England) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2021/670
    Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel and Operator Liability) (England) (Amendment) (No. 3) Regulations 2021/731
    Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel and Operator Liability) (England) (Amendment) (No. 4) Regulations 2021/766
    Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel and Operator Liability) (England) (Amendment) (No. 5) Regulations 2021/795
    Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel and Operator Liability) (England) (Amendment) (No. 6) Regulations 2021/865
    Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel and Operator Liability) (England) (Amendment) (No. 7) Regulations 2021/914
    Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel and Operator Liability) (England) (Amendment) (No. 8) Regulations 2021/923
    Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel and Operator Liability) (England) (Amendment) (No. 9) Regulations 2021/966
    Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel and Operator Liability) (England) (Amendment) Regulations 2021/589
    Typically fascinating lawyer's post. A list. :)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620
    HYUFD said:

    You can't expel the elected leader and plenty of Scottish Tories felt the same way, Labour only held Dumbarton and Edinburgh Southern and the LDs only held Edinburgh Western and North East Fife because of tactical votes from Scottish Tories to keep out the SNP.

    The SNP failed to get a majority due to Unionist tactical voting
    Haw, pal, I've got news for you. You and Mr Ross'd better get your resignation in ...

    https://public.conservatives.com/static/documents/General_Terms_and_Conditions_of_Membership_2020.pdf

    "General Terms and Conditions of Membership of the Conservative Party

    [...]

    7. To be a member or supporter of no other UK-registered political party nor a supporter of any
    candidate of such a party.

    [...]
    Approved by the Board of the Conservative Party
    October 2020"
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,219
    Carnyx said:

    Yellow fever, pratique, etc. Plenty of precedent. Highly relevant to covid, at least in some states: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Princess
    Quarantining travellers and banning ships from disease ridden locations is ancient, ancient stuff.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,263
    Carnyx said:

    That's it, thanks!

    It's worth checking for that digital solution - the problem used to annoy me a lot.
    The other simple way to correct verticals is to keep your camera level, and then crop the image.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,062
    kinabalu said:

    Ah ok. Yes the vote needs to happen. If it doesn't we'll see a (Westminster) 'PARLIAMENT vs the PEOPLE' atmosphere develop and we know how that ends. This is why - oddly - I think a vote now rather than later is better for Unionists than for Nats. They'd be favourites and another No to Sindy would take it off the table.
    It wouldn't, No even if it won would win more narrowly than in 2014 most likely and the Nationalists would then start pushing for indyref3 the next day.

    If you give in once that a generation does not mean a generation what is to stop Nats believing you would give in to them again?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,733
    kinabalu said:

    It's an absolute shocker. I wonder what the result of a female only referendum in Texas would be?
    A relatively slim majority against, from what I can see from the polling.
    Rather larger if you were to restrict that to the under 45s - those actually affected.
  • Carnyx said:

    They've agreed to differ with the SNP on a range of matters. Can't recall if this is one, mind.
    Maybe he'll see the light like Humza Yousaf?

    Humza Yousaf has talked down the prospect of vaccine passports being introduced in Scotland as a way of forcing younger people to receive covid jabs.

    The health secretary said he was "sceptical" of any plan which would mean Scots turned away at the doors of pubs or nightclubs if they could not prove they were fully vaccinated against coronavirus.


    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/humza-yousaf-sceptical-over-vaccine-24581330

    It will be funny if Scotland introduces vaccine passports after Nationalist politicians initially opposed them when England said they'd do it, and England ends up not doing it.

    To add to the hilarity, NHS England vaccine certificates have QR codes making such "passports" much easier than NHS Scotland which doesn't.
  • HYUFD said:

    Hardly, only 35% of Scots want indyref2 before the end of 2023 as Sturgeon does


    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scots-split-on-snp-mandate-for-referendum-with-independence-top-priority-for-just-one-in-11-3238015
    Laughable. We had an actual election this May. The results of that not only trump any opinion poll, but also does not contradict that poll. 35% not seeing an early referendum as a priority before 2023 is not the same as not supporting having one before 2026.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,263
    Nigelb said:

    Surprised @ydoethur isn't around to snaffle the punning opportunity.
    Perhaps he is out to pasture?
  • Carnyx said:

    Haw, pal, I've got news for you. You and Mr Ross'd better get your resignation in ...

    https://public.conservatives.com/static/documents/General_Terms_and_Conditions_of_Membership_2020.pdf

    "General Terms and Conditions of Membership of the Conservative Party

    [...]

    7. To be a member or supporter of no other UK-registered political party nor a supporter of any
    candidate of such a party.

    [...]
    Approved by the Board of the Conservative Party
    October 2020"
    And laughably he then tries to lecture me on loyalty to party.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,400
    Pulpstar said:

    Blimey, is it really that high ?

    Do you get to herd immunity/endemic quicker with a naive population ?
    "Those who received both doses of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine in January or February of this year had a 13.06-fold increased risk (95% CI 8.08-21.11) of SARS-CoV-2 infection with the Delta variant compared to those who had COVID-19 during the same time period, reported Sivan Gazit, MD, MA, of Maccabi Healthcare Services in Tel Aviv, and colleagues."

    Infection is 13x better at preventing Delta cases than the Pfizer jab.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,062
    edited September 2021
    Carnyx said:

    Haw, pal, I've got news for you. You and Mr Ross'd better get your resignation in ...

    https://public.conservatives.com/static/documents/General_Terms_and_Conditions_of_Membership_2020.pdf

    "General Terms and Conditions of Membership of the Conservative Party

    [...]

    7. To be a member or supporter of no other UK-registered political party nor a supporter of any
    candidate of such a party.

    [...]
    Approved by the Board of the Conservative Party
    October 2020"
    For UK elections yes, this was a Scotland only election for Scotland only parties.

    Scottish Conservatives set their own rules for Holyrood elections and Ross is the Scottish Conservative leader at Holyrood elections who decides what goes for there, Boris only leads the UK Conservative Party and the Conservative Party in England
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,733
    Carnyx said:

    That's it, thanks!

    It's worth checking for that digital solution - the problem used to annoy me a lot.
    Tilt/shift lenses are still widely available (though rather expensive).
    Easy to adjust digitally, though.
  • kinabalu said:

    Ah ok. Yes the vote needs to happen. If it doesn't we'll see a (Westminster) 'PARLIAMENT vs the PEOPLE' atmosphere develop and we know how that ends. This is why - oddly - I think a vote now rather than later is better for Unionists than for Nats. They'd be favourites and another No to Sindy would take it off the table.
    I concur. The Tank Commander and his neo-Unionist fellow travellers are shooting themselves in the feet.
  • PJHPJH Posts: 815
    HYUFD said:

    Any Tory parliamentary candidates (including incumbent MPs) who were not willing to vote for Brexit were deselected before the 2019 general election
    Indeed. It wasn't a problem in his case!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,062

    Laughable. We had an actual election this May. The results of that not only trump any opinion poll, but also does not contradict that poll. 35% not seeing an early referendum as a priority before 2023 is not the same as not supporting having one before 2026.
    2026 will be after the next UK general election, Starmer may even be UK PM by then in which case if he wants to grant one that would be his decision
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    "Nearly every malodorous myth about the Great War can be traced back to the literary septic tank that is Lloyd George’s War Memoirs."

    An article in the Express that is interesting and amusing?!!??

    End Times....
    Another whose reputation was utterly trashed by Lloyd George, of course, was Sir Douglas Haig.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 2,108
    DavidL said:

    I take it your neigh joking?
    Was it the mane ingredient?
  • Link to a CNN report on the loons of Alabama who wont get vaxxed.

    "How much testing do you think would be enough to persuade you it was worth using the vaccine?"

    "About ten years."

    Some of them don't even believe Trump really has taken the vax even though he said he had. The Trumpsters are so far down the rabbit hole they don't even believe their own cult leader. Jeez.

    https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1432962006508785668
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620
    HYUFD said:

    For UK elections yes, this was a Scotland only election for Scotland only parties.

    Scottish Conservatives set their own rules for Holyrood elections and Ross is the Scottish Conservative leader at Holyrood elections who decides what goes, Boris only leads the UK Conservative Party and the Conservative Party in England
    So Scotland is not in the UK? Come now, that constititional document is much more basic than what goes on in any one election.

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,101

    Typically fascinating lawyer's post. A list. :)
    Be £5 a line as well
  • HYUFD said:

    For UK elections yes, this was a Scotland only election for Scotland only parties.

    Scottish Conservatives set their own rules for Holyrood elections and Ross is the Scottish Conservative leader at Holyrood elections who decides what goes for there, Boris only leads the UK Conservative Party and the Conservative Party in England
    Source? I’d be astonished if the SCAUP has its own terms and conditions of membership.
  • PJHPJH Posts: 815
    edited September 2021
    PJH said:

    Indeed. It wasn't a problem in his case!
    And thinking about it, if previous Tory leaderships had adopted the same ruthless approach to Europe policy as in 2019, would we still be in the EU... or would we now have a UKIP government?

    (Minor edit)
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    MaxPB said:

    Those other people are free to get a vaccine. Only their stupidity is stopping them.
    Not in all cases

    But because you think they are stupid their freedom should be limited for your convenience?
  • Look out Raab! The Claudia has asked a question!

    Labour needs to reinstate her whip. She is sorely missed by the party, an intellectual powerhouse who was absolutely definitely not parachuted into Leicester East.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,101

    Maybe he'll see the light like Humza Yousaf?

    Humza Yousaf has talked down the prospect of vaccine passports being introduced in Scotland as a way of forcing younger people to receive covid jabs.

    The health secretary said he was "sceptical" of any plan which would mean Scots turned away at the doors of pubs or nightclubs if they could not prove they were fully vaccinated against coronavirus.


    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/humza-yousaf-sceptical-over-vaccine-24581330

    It will be funny if Scotland introduces vaccine passports after Nationalist politicians initially opposed them when England said they'd do it, and England ends up not doing it.

    To add to the hilarity, NHS England vaccine certificates have QR codes making such "passports" much easier than NHS Scotland which doesn't.
    Thicker than mince
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,101
    Foxy said:

    Perhaps he is out to pasture?
    Certainly would not be out to stud
  • malcolmg said:

    Be £5 a line as well
    I doubt it. £500, more like.
  • HYUFD said:

    Hardly, only 35% of Scots want indyref2 before the end of 2023 as Sturgeon does.


    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scots-split-on-snp-mandate-for-referendum-with-independence-top-priority-for-just-one-in-11-3238015
    The Tank Commander is now an expert on how SLab and SLD voters would react to anti-Scottish behaviour.
  • HYUFD said:

    2026 will be after the next UK general election, Starmer may even be UK PM by then in which case if he wants to grant one that would be his decision
    2026 is within the terms of this Scottish Parliament you prannock. What does the Westminster election have to do with an opinion poll in Scotland that you just posted?
  • Source? I’d be astonished if the SCAUP has its own terms and conditions of membership.
    It doesn't. Shocking and distressing as it may be, our beloved HYUFD is a hypocrite.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620

    Source? I’d be astonished if the SCAUP has its own terms and conditions of membership.
    Even if they are different, that certainly doesn't let HYUFD himself off the hook.
  • malcolmg said:

    Certainly would not be out to stud
    Down the knacker’s yard?
  • Just catching up. A quiz question:

    Which is higher?
    a) the number of new hospitals built under this government, or
    b) the number of new trade deals signed by this government?
  • HYUFD said:

    You can't expel the elected leader and plenty of Scottish Tories felt the same way, Labour only held Dumbarton and Edinburgh Southern and the LDs only held Edinburgh Western and North East Fife because of tactical votes from Scottish Tories to keep out the SNP.

    The SNP failed to get a majority due to Unionist tactical voting
    Voters can do what they like. It is party members who get into hot water for voting against their party.

    Think of it as being comparable to adultery. Playing away, as it were.
  • I concur. The Tank Commander and his neo-Unionist fellow travellers are shooting themselves in the feet.
    This particular Unionist has no issue with Indyref2 and I agree with @kinabalu

    However, the first problem the SNPs has is calling indyref2 before the majority of Scots are ready for it , and secondly it would be very brave without a majority in favour of independence

    Additionally I really cannot understand Nicola agreeing a deal with the Greens as it was not necessary
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Link to a CNN report on the loons of Alabama who wont get vaxxed.

    "How much testing do you think would be enough to persuade you it was worth using the vaccine?"

    "About ten years."

    Some of them don't even believe Trump really has taken the vax even though he said he had. The Trumpsters are so far down the rabbit hole they don't even believe their own cult leader. Jeez.

    https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1432962006508785668

    I look forward to the CNN report on why American ethnic minority and black people are even more vaccine hesitant than whites

    and I look forward to you dismissing them as 'down the rabbit hole'
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 2,108
    Nigelb said:

    Tilt/shift lenses are still widely available (though rather expensive).
    Easy to adjust digitally, though.
    Best to save images in the camera's RAW format if you are going to work on them with Photoshop or Lightroom later
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,062
    edited September 2021

    Source? I’d be astonished if the SCAUP has its own terms and conditions of membership.
    The terms are quite clear you cannot support another UK registered party for UK elections, for a vote for Labour or the LDs as much as SNP at UK elections is a vote against a UK Tory majority government.

    For Scottish elections however a vote for any Unionist party is a vote against an SNP majority or an SNP and Green government, hence the rules do not disallow votes for Scottish parties at Scotland only elections for Holyrood.

    The Scottish Conservatives run the Conservative campaign in Scotland from their office in Northumberland Street, Edinburgh and set the rules for Holyrood elections. CCHQ only has full remit over UK general elections and local elections in England (and in the latter the approved council candidates list is determined by local associations, CCHQ only determines the approved candidates list for UK parliamentary candidates)
  • HYUFD said:

    You can't expel the elected leader and plenty of Scottish Tories felt the same way, Labour only held Dumbarton and Edinburgh Southern and the LDs only held Edinburgh Western and North East Fife because of tactical votes from Scottish Tories to keep out the SNP.

    The SNP failed to get a majority due to Unionist tactical voting
    No, if the Unionists had lost aforementioned FPTP seats, they would have been compensated by extra list seats.
    Look up how the Scottish Holyrood elections work before commenting.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620
    HYUFD said:

    The terms are quite clear you cannot support another UK registered party for UK elections, for a vote for Labour or the LD as much as SNP at UK elections is a vote against a UK Tory majority government.

    For Scottish elections however a vote for any Unionist party is a vote against an SNP and Green government, hence the rules do not disallow votes for Scottish parties at Scotland only elections for Holyrood.

    The Scottish Conservatives run the Conservative campaign in Scotland from their office in Northumberland Street, Edinburgh and set the rules for Holyrood elections, CCHQ only has full remit over UK general elections and elections in England
    MEMBERSHIP RULES are what you need to show. You've ignored that, carefully.

    And SCUP sets the rules for elections in Scotland? I am sure the Electoral Commission would be astounded.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,263

    This particular Unionist has no issue with Indyref2 and I agree with @kinabalu

    However, the first problem the SNPs has is calling indyref2 before the majority of Scots are ready for it , and secondly it would be very brave without a majority in favour of independence

    Additionally I really cannot understand Nicola agreeing a deal with the Greens as it was not necessary
    I think it reasonable for a Unionist to advocate a further referendum, on the grounds that winning it would kill the issue for a long time, indeed should be part of the legislation.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,810
    HYUFD said:

    It wouldn't, No even if it won would win more narrowly than in 2014 most likely and the Nationalists would then start pushing for indyref3 the next day.

    If you give in once that a generation does not mean a generation what is to stop Nats believing you would give in to them again?
    Because the Scots would not be up for continually having votes on this. You need a caricatured and jaundiced view of them to think otherwise. These exercises are not trivial. They convulse a country and expend enormous energy. Same applied with our EU one. That's why I knew - KNEW - that for all the rational seeming argument for it Ref2 was a total pipedream. We were not going through that again anytime soon.

    Here with Sindy there is (just about) sufficient rationale and and appetite for holding another vote just a touch less than 10 years since the last one but that will be it for the foreseeable if it's another No.
  • Tension between Scotland's vaccine certification plan (for nightclubs, all large events with 10k+) and COP26. Attendees at COP26 are "strongly recommended" to be vaccinated but it's not mandatory.

    https://twitter.com/ChrisMusson/status/1433076317369548807?s=20
  • This particular Unionist has no issue with Indyref2 and I agree with @kinabalu

    However, the first problem the SNPs has is calling indyref2 before the majority of Scots are ready for it , and secondly it would be very brave without a majority in favour of independence

    Additionally I really cannot understand Nicola agreeing a deal with the Greens as it was not necessary
    How many times do we have to do this?
    1. Scottish voters are ready for the referendum having voted for parties to deliver it
    2. A comfortable majority of MSPs pledged to deliver it were elected in a record turnout

    We cannot have a "votes cast count, seats elected don't count" argument without also accepting that the Labour / LibDem / Green / SNP group won the UK election.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,733
    Sinovac Reaps $7.7 Billion from COVID-19 Vaccine, Investor Report Unveils
    https://www.pharmadj.com/en/cms/detail.htm
    Sinovac could be making over ¥50 billion ($7.7 billion) from its CoronaVac in the first half of this year, financial data from its investor Sino Biopharm suggested. This would make Sinovac the world’s most profitable COVID-19 vaccine developer.

    Sino Biopharm acquired a 15.03% stake in Sinovac in December 2020. In its interim report unveiled on Tuesday, the company posted profit of ¥7.5 billion ($1.16 billion) from associates and joint ventures, which include the vaccine maker....
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,810
    Nigelb said:

    A relatively slim majority against, from what I can see from the polling.
    Rather larger if you were to restrict that to the under 45s - those actually affected.
    It's so outrageous that I have to think it won't hold.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,400
    Nigelb said:

    Sinovac Reaps $7.7 Billion from COVID-19 Vaccine, Investor Report Unveils
    https://www.pharmadj.com/en/cms/detail.htm
    Sinovac could be making over ¥50 billion ($7.7 billion) from its CoronaVac in the first half of this year, financial data from its investor Sino Biopharm suggested. This would make Sinovac the world’s most profitable COVID-19 vaccine developer.

    Sino Biopharm acquired a 15.03% stake in Sinovac in December 2020. In its interim report unveiled on Tuesday, the company posted profit of ¥7.5 billion ($1.16 billion) from associates and joint ventures, which include the vaccine maker....

    In Q2, Moderna brought in $4.4bn of revenues, up from $67m a year before.
  • How many times do we have to do this?
    1. Scottish voters are ready for the referendum having voted for parties to deliver it
    2. A comfortable majority of MSPs pledged to deliver it were elected in a record turnout

    We cannot have a "votes cast count, seats elected don't count" argument without also accepting that the Labour / LibDem / Green / SNP group won the UK election.
    You know as well as I do the Scots do not want an early indyref2 poll and at present the union has majority support

    That is why I agree with @kinabalu
  • eekeek Posts: 29,738
    edited September 2021

    Just catching up. A quiz question:

    Which is higher?
    a) the number of new hospitals built under this government, or
    b) the number of new trade deals signed by this government?

    That probably depends on what your definition of a NEW hospital is?

    Remember that the one opened in Carlisle was really more an expanded cancer department rebranded as a cancer hospital.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,062
    edited September 2021

    No, if the Unionists had lost aforementioned FPTP seats, they would have been compensated by extra list seats.
    Look up how the Scottish Holyrood elections work before commenting.
    The SNP would have won a majority if Aberdeenshire West, Dumbarton, Edinburgh Southern and Eastwood had gone SNP, the Unionist parties would not have won enough list seats to compensate
  • HYUFD said:

    The terms are quite clear you cannot support another UK registered party for UK elections, for a vote for Labour or the LDs as much as SNP at UK elections is a vote against a UK Tory majority government.

    For Scottish elections however a vote for any Unionist party is a vote against an SNP majority or an SNP and Green government, hence the rules do not disallow votes for Scottish parties at Scotland only elections for Holyrood.

    The Scottish Conservatives run the Conservative campaign in Scotland from their office in Northumberland Street, Edinburgh and set the rules for Holyrood elections. CCHQ only has full remit over UK general elections and local elections in England (and in the latter the approved council candidates list is determined by local associations, CCHQ only determines the approved candidates list for UK parliamentary candidates)
    You are just making it up as you go along.

    Show us a paragraph in the conditions of membership that says it is OK to vote Labour or Lib Dem.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,062

    2026 is within the terms of this Scottish Parliament you prannock. What does the Westminster election have to do with an opinion poll in Scotland that you just posted?
    Everything as union matters are reserved to the UK government under the Scotland Act 1998, Holyrood has power over Scottish domestic policy only
  • Nigelb said:

    Sinovac Reaps $7.7 Billion from COVID-19 Vaccine, Investor Report Unveils
    https://www.pharmadj.com/en/cms/detail.htm
    Sinovac could be making over ¥50 billion ($7.7 billion) from its CoronaVac in the first half of this year, financial data from its investor Sino Biopharm suggested. This would make Sinovac the world’s most profitable COVID-19 vaccine developer.

    Sino Biopharm acquired a 15.03% stake in Sinovac in December 2020. In its interim report unveiled on Tuesday, the company posted profit of ¥7.5 billion ($1.16 billion) from associates and joint ventures, which include the vaccine maker....

    Now if I was a conspiracy theorist...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,062
    kinabalu said:

    Because the Scots would not be up for continually having votes on this. You need a caricatured and jaundiced view of them to think otherwise. These exercises are not trivial. They convulse a country and expend enormous energy. Same applied with our EU one. That's why I knew - KNEW - that for all the rational seeming argument for it Ref2 was a total pipedream. We were not going through that again anytime soon.

    Here with Sindy there is (just about) sufficient rationale and and appetite for holding another vote just a touch less than 10 years since the last one but that will be it for the foreseeable if it's another No.
    It won't, the Nationalists are like a crocodile, once you feed it once it will not appease it, it will be back for more.

    A generation is a generation, the UK government must not weakly appease the Nats and give an indyref2 before a genuine generation is up since 2014 otherwise they will be demanding indyref3 in less than a generation too
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,653
    malcolmg said:

    Be £5 a line as well
    Oh. Lines of text. :)
  • eek said:

    That probably depends on what your definition of a NEW hospital is?

    Remember that the one opened in Carlisle was really more an expanded cancer department rebranded as a cancer hospital.
    Zero new hospitals, zero new trade deals?
  • HYUFD said:

    The terms are quite clear you cannot support another UK registered party for UK elections, for a vote for Labour or the LDs as much as SNP at UK elections is a vote against a UK Tory majority government.

    For Scottish elections however a vote for any Unionist party is a vote against an SNP majority or an SNP and Green government, hence the rules do not disallow votes for Scottish parties at Scotland only elections for Holyrood.

    The Scottish Conservatives run the Conservative campaign in Scotland from their office in Northumberland Street, Edinburgh and set the rules for Holyrood elections. CCHQ only has full remit over UK general elections and local elections in England (and in the latter the approved council candidates list is determined by local associations, CCHQ only determines the approved candidates list for UK parliamentary candidates)
    Now The Tank Commander is in favour of Scottish self-governance. Odd chap.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,628

    Look out Raab! The Claudia has asked a question!

    Labour needs to reinstate her whip. She is sorely missed by the party, an intellectual powerhouse who was absolutely definitely not parachuted into Leicester East.

    Still obsessed by labour and the Corbyn project.

    Parachuting, of course, never went on in Blairs day, oh no, definitely not.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,180

    Patrick Harvie, 22 July:

    The UK Government is destroying public trust, as well as increasing the human cost in lives and health harm.......

    In the wake of the existing generational injustice made worse by Covid, vaccine passports would deepen discrimination against those who have not yet been vaccinated. It would deepen inequality at a time when the country needs collective effort. Worse still, the confusion allows the anti-vaxxers who marched in London to spread misinformation about the safety and purpose of the vaccine itself.


    https://www.thenational.scot/news/19462951.vaccine-passports-inequality-will-deepen-jag-proof-needed/

    Lets see what tune he sings when Scotland does it....

    Does Harvie have no idea how hard it is to get to see your dentist during lockdown? They cancelled on me again today for the second time. He makes not grinding your teeth almost impossible.

    Perhaps the Harvie could become a unit of stupidity. Bloody daft but not the full Harvie, that sort of thing.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,062

    You are just making it up as you go along.

    Show us a paragraph in the conditions of membership that says it is OK to vote Labour or Lib Dem.
    There is nothing in the terms of membership saying a vote against the SNP at Holyrood elections is disallowed.

    Slab and the SLDs are Scottish only parties standing for Scotland only elections at Holyrood, they only become part of the UK parties at UK general elections when they stand for Westminster
  • HYUFD said:

    It won't, the Nationalists are like a crocodile, once you feed it once it will not appease it, it will be back for more.

    A generation is a generation, the UK government must not weakly appease the Nats and give an indyref2 before a genuine generation is up since 2014 otherwise they will be demanding indyref3 in less than a generation too
    Your basic problem with this "argument" is that the 2014 referendum was not "once in a generation" - and frankly you either know this and are happy to lie about it are don't know this and are clueless about politics in Scotland.

    If you want to make something once in a generation you legislate it as such. It was not, so it is not. An off-the-cuff campaigning comment by the first minister is not the same as the law.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Tension between Scotland's vaccine certification plan (for nightclubs, all large events with 10k+) and COP26. Attendees at COP26 are "strongly recommended" to be vaccinated but it's not mandatory.

    https://twitter.com/ChrisMusson/status/1433076317369548807?s=20

    Will the way Scottish labour votes on this reveal their hand on which way Starmer will jump in England?

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,180

    Look out Raab! The Claudia has asked a question!

    Labour needs to reinstate her whip. She is sorely missed by the party, an intellectual powerhouse who was absolutely definitely not parachuted into Leicester East.

    I am in awe of your indefatigability and persistence. You are seriously watching this?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,029
    edited September 2021
    Sam Coates of Sky saying Dominic Raab should be pleased with his performance with lots of information and factual points
  • Zero new hospitals, zero new trade deals?
    Zero new hospitals certainly. The one in Carlisle was referred to (correctly) by the local Tory MP as the "Northern Centre for Cancer Care at the Cumberland Infirmary". Not as a new hospital.

    Remember though. Tories tell obvious lies about new hospitals because out there are Tory voters who are happy to believe the lies. That is what your politics has been reduced to - people living in happy ignorance happy to be lied to because it annoys people like me.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,012
    theProle said:

    Isn't it also the inevitable result of conducting activities which should have been matters of legislation by "lawfare" and judicial activism instead.
    It's not a pretty piece of legislation (although one has to admire the ingenuity of whoever came up with it as a way of sidestepping the current legal situation), but it's also hardly surprising we've ended up here, when all other roads are blocked.
    It is not a pretty piece of legislation, but neither is ours. Genuinely and equally balancing the claims and interests of mothers and the unborn when they conflict, IMHO, not been achieved anywhere. UK legislation and practice comes nowhere close. Those who live in glass houses.....

  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,653
    edited September 2021

    Look out Raab! The Claudia has asked a question!

    Wonderful entertainment.

    'Afghanistan has been destabilised by 40 years of Western intervention."

    USSR? What's that?

    Jezza needs to take her on a Tardis holiday through COMECON.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,180

    This particular Unionist has no issue with Indyref2 and I agree with @kinabalu

    However, the first problem the SNPs has is calling indyref2 before the majority of Scots are ready for it , and secondly it would be very brave without a majority in favour of independence

    Additionally I really cannot understand Nicola agreeing a deal with the Greens as it was not necessary
    Just maybe she was nervous about one or two of her MSPs heading off to Alba leaving her short of a majority and subject to blackmail by he who should not be named.
  • DavidL said:

    I am in awe of your indefatigability and persistence. You are seriously watching this?
    It was on in the background whilst I wrote a lengthy reply to one client's sanity-challenged marketing team. The soporific Raab drone helped calm my own tone.
This discussion has been closed.