As the days go by the Afghan crisis continues to dominate the front pages – politicalbetting.com

HYUFD said:

The Taliban have set us a deadline of 31st August to complete all evacuations.

They have said any US and UK and western military presence in Afghanistan still after that date will provoke a response from them.

So we have a week to complete the process and get all refugees and troops out or face a bloodbath

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

The Taliban have set us a deadline of 31st August to complete all evacuations.

They have said any US and UK and western military presence in Afghanistan still after that date will provoke a response from them.

So we have a week to complete the process and get all refugees and troops out or face a bloodbath

You tend to be ever so dramatic and we really do not know what would happen if the US and allies remained to secure the evacuation of those in need

There may be threats but I doubt the Taliban would want to be in a firefight at this stage

NickPalmer said:

TOPPING said:

NickPalmer said:

TOPPING said:

.

NickPalmer said:

TOPPING said:

There are plenty of disincentives to tell the truth. Let's take one hypothetical example.

You are due to fly on holiday on Monday. Your carrier needs to see proof of a negative LFT taken within 48 hrs before you can travel.

If you take it and it's positive you can't go away and will face the whole insurance/compensation battle.

Do you take it or not take it and just report a negative test using the serial number on the test. If you do take it and it's positive do you report it as such? Etc.

Yes...that does depend on people being willing to risk committing manslaughter in order to go on holiday. But I know not everyone will see it like that.

No I think it's a pretty safe bet that they won't. Unless you think that 85% of the thousands of people attending the ERP events were willing to commit manslaughter.

Pretty bizarre point of view.

85% tested positive? Edit: oh, you mean 85% hadn't been tested? My comment was only about people who test positive and go and infect people anyway.

And mine was that there is no incentive to take the test.

When people have the flu and go out and about no one has ever previously talked of them being guilty of manslaughter.

Well, you'd agree, I think, that Covid will kill a small proportion of vaccinated people and (unlike flu) a significant proportion of unvaccinated people. It will also cause very serious illness for a larger proportion, without killing them. If you decide to go on holiday while knowing that you're infectious, especially abroad where you probably have little data on the proportion who have been vaccinated, you're willingly taking the risk of killing some of the people you meet.

It doesn't seem at all like going out with flu, more like having AIDS and sleeping with strangers without warning them.

Leon said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

The Taliban have set us a deadline of 31st August to complete all evacuations.

They have said any US and UK and western military presence in Afghanistan still after that date will provoke a response from them.

So we have a week to complete the process and get all refugees and troops out or face a bloodbath

You tend to be ever so dramatic and we really do not know what would happen if the US and allies remained to secure the evacuation of those in need

There may be threats but I doubt the Taliban would want to be in a firefight at this stage

The Taliban would surely start taking hostages. That's the easiest thing to do, and the hardest thing for us to fight against, or resolve

Just a few hostages gives you enormous leverage, the Taliban could seize thousands.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

The Taliban have set us a deadline of 31st August to complete all evacuations.

They have said any US and UK and western military presence in Afghanistan still after that date will provoke a response from them.

So we have a week to complete the process and get all refugees and troops out or face a bloodbath

You tend to be ever so dramatic and we really do not know what would happen if the US and allies remained to secure the evacuation of those in need

There may be threats but I doubt the Taliban would want to be in a firefight at this stage

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

The Taliban have set us a deadline of 31st August to complete all evacuations.

They have said any US and UK and western military presence in Afghanistan still after that date will provoke a response from them.

So we have a week to complete the process and get all refugees and troops out or face a bloodbath

You tend to be ever so dramatic and we really do not know what would happen if the US and allies remained to secure the evacuation of those in need

There may be threats but I doubt the Taliban would want to be in a firefight at this stage

The Taliban effectively made clear today if any western forces are in Kabul after August 31st they will attack them

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

another_richard said:

HYUFD said:

The Taliban have set us a deadline of 31st August to complete all evacuations.

They have said any US and UK and western military presence in Afghanistan still after that date will provoke a response from them.

So we have a week to complete the process and get all refugees and troops out or face a bloodbath

I thought you wanted to destroy the Taliban ?

I wanted to stay their permanently yes, Uncle Joe thought differently

And as does the vast majority of Brits

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Leon said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

The Taliban have set us a deadline of 31st August to complete all evacuations.

They have said any US and UK and western military presence in Afghanistan still after that date will provoke a response from them.

So we have a week to complete the process and get all refugees and troops out or face a bloodbath

You tend to be ever so dramatic and we really do not know what would happen if the US and allies remained to secure the evacuation of those in need

There may be threats but I doubt the Taliban would want to be in a firefight at this stage

The Taliban would surely start taking hostages. That's the easiest thing to do, and the hardest thing for us to fight against, or resolve

Just a few hostages gives you enormous leverage, the Taliban could seize thousands.

I would suggest we wait and see how this develops as despite the rhetoric I doubt the Taliban want to undo everything for the sake of a few more days or even a week or two

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

another_richard said:

HYUFD said:

The Taliban have set us a deadline of 31st August to complete all evacuations.

They have said any US and UK and western military presence in Afghanistan still after that date will provoke a response from them.

So we have a week to complete the process and get all refugees and troops out or face a bloodbath

I thought you wanted to destroy the Taliban ?

I wanted to stay their permanently yes, Uncle Joe thought differently

And as does the vast majority of Brits

42% of British voters thought the withdrawal was wrong, only 28% thought it was right

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2021/08/16/britons-react-collapse-afghanistan

HYUFD said:

another_richard said:

HYUFD said:

The Taliban have set us a deadline of 31st August to complete all evacuations.

They have said any US and UK and western military presence in Afghanistan still after that date will provoke a response from them.

So we have a week to complete the process and get all refugees and troops out or face a bloodbath

I thought you wanted to destroy the Taliban ?

I wanted to stay their permanently yes, Uncle Joe thought differently

rottenborough said:

HYUFD said:

another_richard said:

HYUFD said:

The Taliban have set us a deadline of 31st August to complete all evacuations.

They have said any US and UK and western military presence in Afghanistan still after that date will provoke a response from them.

So we have a week to complete the process and get all refugees and troops out or face a bloodbath

I thought you wanted to destroy the Taliban ?

I wanted to stay their permanently yes, Uncle Joe thought differently

Well, I presume you wanted someone else from UK/US to stay there permanently, rather than your good self?

IshmaelZ said:

HYUFD said:

The Taliban have set us a deadline of 31st August to complete all evacuations.

They have said any US and UK and western military presence in Afghanistan still after that date will provoke a response from them.

So we have a week to complete the process and get all refugees and troops out or face a bloodbath

We aren't going to get "all refugees" out. Ben Wallace has conceded this.

HYUFD said:

rottenborough said:

HYUFD said:

another_richard said:

HYUFD said:

The Taliban have set us a deadline of 31st August to complete all evacuations.

They have said any US and UK and western military presence in Afghanistan still after that date will provoke a response from them.

So we have a week to complete the process and get all refugees and troops out or face a bloodbath

I thought you wanted to destroy the Taliban ?

I wanted to stay their permanently yes, Uncle Joe thought differently

Well, I presume you wanted someone else from UK/US to stay there permanently, rather than your good self?

We have a paid professional army for a reason.

The US has had troops in South Korea for 70 years for example, to keep out North Korea

Leon said:

IshmaelZ said:

HYUFD said:

The Taliban have set us a deadline of 31st August to complete all evacuations.

They have said any US and UK and western military presence in Afghanistan still after that date will provoke a response from them.

So we have a week to complete the process and get all refugees and troops out or face a bloodbath

We aren't going to get "all refugees" out. Ben Wallace has conceded this.

This is the most emotionally impacting foreign policy crisis I can remember. What matches it?

Tens of thousands of people at risk from a cruel and evil conqueror. A race to get them out

It's like Dunkirk with Korans

Richard_Nabavi said:

I can't see any possibility of the Taliban extending the deadline. Why should they? As it is they are showing the world that the US has surrendered to them, and they can claim, with quite a lot of justification, that they have magnanimously kept to the agreed terms of the American surrender. They have lots of headstrong young men who want to get on with enjoying the sweets of victory, and plenty of scores to settle once the journalists have left. The West has nothing to offer them, or at least nothing that the West will be prepared to offer.

TOPPING said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Presumably those planes are going back to Kabul almost empty.

Very inefficient. But if we filled them with Extinction Rebellion protesters, we'd get much lower average CO2 emissions per passenger.

One for you Richard. V amusing.

https://youtu.be/8rAmwMxQ7UY

Alistair said:

Second like the democratic candidate for California Governor when the recall result hits.

Richard_Nabavi said:

I can't see any possibility of the Taliban extending the deadline. Why should they? As it is they are showing the world that the US has surrendered to them, and they can claim, with quite a lot of justification, that they have magnanimously kept to the agreed terms of the American surrender. They have lots of headstrong young men who want to get on with enjoying the sweets of victory, and plenty of scores to settle once the journalists have left. The West has nothing to offer them, or at least nothing that the West will be prepared to offer.

rcs1000 said:

Alistair said:

Second like the democratic candidate for California Governor when the recall result hits.

There are thirty Republican candidates on the ballot for governor, and nine democrats.

There is no run off. The highest scoring - of the fifty total - candidate wins, even if they only get 10% of the total vote.

It is entirely possible that the winner will be a Democrat you have never heard of. It’s also possible that Republican Larry Elder wins, and is immediately repealed himself.

Philip_Thompson said:

Leon said:

IshmaelZ said:

HYUFD said:

The Taliban have set us a deadline of 31st August to complete all evacuations.

They have said any US and UK and western military presence in Afghanistan still after that date will provoke a response from them.

So we have a week to complete the process and get all refugees and troops out or face a bloodbath

We aren't going to get "all refugees" out. Ben Wallace has conceded this.

This is the most emotionally impacting foreign policy crisis I can remember. What matches it?

Tens of thousands of people at risk from a cruel and evil conqueror. A race to get them out

It's like Dunkirk with Korans

If it was Dunkirk the tens of thousands would be dead already. The conqueror reached the airport over a week ago and is providing airport security now to assist in the evacuation.

I can't think what compares.

kinabalu said:

TOPPING said:

kinabalu said:

TOPPING said:

fpt

NickPalmer said:

TOPPING said:

NickPalmer said:

TOPPING said:

.

NickPalmer said:

TOPPING said:

There are plenty of disincentives to tell the truth. Let's take one hypothetical example.

You are due to fly on holiday on Monday. Your carrier needs to see proof of a negative LFT taken within 48 hrs before you can travel.

If you take it and it's positive you can't go away and will face the whole insurance/compensation battle.

Do you take it or not take it and just report a negative test using the serial number on the test. If you do take it and it's positive do you report it as such? Etc.

Yes...that does depend on people being willing to risk committing manslaughter in order to go on holiday. But I know not everyone will see it like that.

No I think it's a pretty safe bet that they won't. Unless you think that 85% of the thousands of people attending the ERP events were willing to commit manslaughter.

Pretty bizarre point of view.

85% tested positive? Edit: oh, you mean 85% hadn't been tested? My comment was only about people who test positive and go and infect people anyway.

And mine was that there is no incentive to take the test.

When people have the flu and go out and about no one has ever previously talked of them being guilty of manslaughter.

Well, you'd agree, I think, that Covid will kill a small proportion of vaccinated people and (unlike flu) a significant proportion of unvaccinated people. It will also cause very serious illness for a larger proportion, without killing them. If you decide to go on holiday while knowing that you're infectious, especially abroad where you probably have little data on the proportion who have been vaccinated, you're willingly taking the risk of killing some of the people you meet.

It doesn't seem at all like going out with flu, more like having AIDS and sleeping with strangers without warning them.

You are talking about numbers. I am talking about principle. The flu will kill someone vulnerable. So will Covid. Covid might kill more.

But the principle is the same. Going out with either is being willing to commit manslaughter or it is not.

It depends how infectious and potentially lethal the disease is. The more of both it is, the more like manslaughter it is for you to go out and mix, assuming you know this and you know you have it.

So what is it if you have the flu and just kill one person? Manslaughter-lite?

So lite as to be not.

Philip_Thompson said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

I can't see any possibility of the Taliban extending the deadline. Why should they? As it is they are showing the world that the US has surrendered to them, and they can claim, with quite a lot of justification, that they have magnanimously kept to the agreed terms of the American surrender. They have lots of headstrong young men who want to get on with enjoying the sweets of victory, and plenty of scores to settle once the journalists have left. The West has nothing to offer them, or at least nothing that the West will be prepared to offer.

There's one thing The West is very good at offering. Some things are priceless, for everything else there's Mastercard . . .

It depends upon timescales. The Taliban know they have won and are getting control, they want the Americans gone for good and they don't want a reason for this to turn into a fight. If its a case of a one week extension would get everyone they don't want in the country out of it - and no doubt if there's backhanders going the other way - then I wouldn't rule out the possibility of an extension.

Richard_Nabavi said:

TOPPING said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Presumably those planes are going back to Kabul almost empty.

Very inefficient. But if we filled them with Extinction Rebellion protesters, we'd get much lower average CO2 emissions per passenger.

One for you Richard. V amusing.

https://youtu.be/8rAmwMxQ7UY

Have you tried it? It sounds weird!

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Leon said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

The Taliban have set us a deadline of 31st August to complete all evacuations.

They have said any US and UK and western military presence in Afghanistan still after that date will provoke a response from them.

So we have a week to complete the process and get all refugees and troops out or face a bloodbath

You tend to be ever so dramatic and we really do not know what would happen if the US and allies remained to secure the evacuation of those in need

There may be threats but I doubt the Taliban would want to be in a firefight at this stage

The Taliban would surely start taking hostages. That's the easiest thing to do, and the hardest thing for us to fight against, or resolve

Just a few hostages gives you enormous leverage, the Taliban could seize thousands.

I would suggest we wait and see how this develops as despite the rhetoric I doubt the Taliban want to undo everything for the sake of a few more days or even a week or two

Richard_Nabavi said:

I can't see any possibility of the Taliban extending the deadline. Why should they? As it is they are showing the world that the US has surrendered to them, and they can claim, with quite a lot of justification, that they have magnanimously kept to the agreed terms of the American surrender. They have lots of headstrong young men who want to get on with enjoying the sweets of victory, and plenty of scores to settle once the journalists have left. The West has nothing to offer them, or at least nothing that the West will be prepared to offer.

Philip_Thompson said:

RobD said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Leon said:

IshmaelZ said:

HYUFD said:

The Taliban have set us a deadline of 31st August to complete all evacuations.

They have said any US and UK and western military presence in Afghanistan still after that date will provoke a response from them.

So we have a week to complete the process and get all refugees and troops out or face a bloodbath

We aren't going to get "all refugees" out. Ben Wallace has conceded this.

This is the most emotionally impacting foreign policy crisis I can remember. What matches it?

Tens of thousands of people at risk from a cruel and evil conqueror. A race to get them out

It's like Dunkirk with Korans

If it was Dunkirk the tens of thousands would be dead already. The conqueror reached the airport over a week ago and is providing airport security now to assist in the evacuation.

I can't think what compares.

Similar to Hitler's halt order, which gave some time for the evacuation.

Completely different.

There's extremely little evidence that the halt order was done in order to assist the evacuation. Instead the evidence is generally considered to be that it was to allow the German infantry to catch up, to preserve their Panzers and/or to allow the Luftwaffe to have the opportunity to destroy Dunkirk which is what Goring wanted.

What's happening now is more if the infantry etc had caught up after the halt order, then they resumed movement, got into Dunkirk and then they started assisting the British etc onto the ships instead of seeking to destroy them.

The Taliban aren't on the way to the airport, they're their and working side-by-side and even behind British lines to assist in security. Not something Hitler would have done. 😕

TOPPING said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

TOPPING said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Presumably those planes are going back to Kabul almost empty.

Very inefficient. But if we filled them with Extinction Rebellion protesters, we'd get much lower average CO2 emissions per passenger.

One for you Richard. V amusing.

https://youtu.be/8rAmwMxQ7UY

Have you tried it? It sounds weird!

No but Guffens-Heynen is a master and I would certainly give it a try. But I might buy his Macon Pierreclos first!

Richard_Nabavi said:

TOPPING said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

TOPPING said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Presumably those planes are going back to Kabul almost empty.

Very inefficient. But if we filled them with Extinction Rebellion protesters, we'd get much lower average CO2 emissions per passenger.

One for you Richard. V amusing.

https://youtu.be/8rAmwMxQ7UY

Have you tried it? It sounds weird!

No but Guffens-Heynen is a master and I would certainly give it a try. But I might buy his Macon Pierreclos first!

Talking of wine, we hosted a Gruaud Larose dinner Chez Nabavi a couple of weeks ago: 2002, 2000, 1999, 1996, 1990, 1986, 1982, 1975, 1973, 1967, 1961. Quite an evening!

Charles said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Leon said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

The Taliban have set us a deadline of 31st August to complete all evacuations.

They have said any US and UK and western military presence in Afghanistan still after that date will provoke a response from them.

So we have a week to complete the process and get all refugees and troops out or face a bloodbath

You tend to be ever so dramatic and we really do not know what would happen if the US and allies remained to secure the evacuation of those in need

There may be threats but I doubt the Taliban would want to be in a firefight at this stage

The Taliban would surely start taking hostages. That's the easiest thing to do, and the hardest thing for us to fight against, or resolve

Just a few hostages gives you enormous leverage, the Taliban could seize thousands.

I would suggest we wait and see how this develops as despite the rhetoric I doubt the Taliban want to undo everything for the sake of a few more days or even a week or two

They said that soldiers staying beyond Aug 31 would have consequences. This was a response to newspaper stories saying the Americans might stay beyond August 31 to complete the evacuation.

Reality is a long way from @HYUFD’s interpretation

Richard_Nabavi said:

TOPPING said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

TOPPING said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Presumably those planes are going back to Kabul almost empty.

Very inefficient. But if we filled them with Extinction Rebellion protesters, we'd get much lower average CO2 emissions per passenger.

One for you Richard. V amusing.

https://youtu.be/8rAmwMxQ7UY

Have you tried it? It sounds weird!

No but Guffens-Heynen is a master and I would certainly give it a try. But I might buy his Macon Pierreclos first!

Talking of wine, we hosted a Gruaud Larose dinner Chez Nabavi a couple of weeks ago: 2002, 2000, 1999, 1996, 1990, 1986, 1982, 1975, 1973, 1967, 1961. Quite an evening!

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Leon said:

IshmaelZ said:

HYUFD said:

The Taliban have set us a deadline of 31st August to complete all evacuations.

They have said any US and UK and western military presence in Afghanistan still after that date will provoke a response from them.

So we have a week to complete the process and get all refugees and troops out or face a bloodbath

We aren't going to get "all refugees" out. Ben Wallace has conceded this.

This is the most emotionally impacting foreign policy crisis I can remember. What matches it?

Tens of thousands of people at risk from a cruel and evil conqueror. A race to get them out

It's like Dunkirk with Korans

If it was Dunkirk the tens of thousands would be dead already. The conqueror reached the airport over a week ago and is providing airport security now to assist in the evacuation.

I can't think what compares.

It is a shock to many people because we, the West, who are generally right about everything morally and otherwise, have now conclusively lost to the wrong side.

It is so shocking because we all fundamentally think that we are in the right and the Taliban are in the wrong. With Vietnam, for example, there was (quite a strong) case to be made for the Viet Cong.

In this case, we are definitely on the right side, despite our many errors. The Taliban are pretty much pure evil

They are now beating women for the crime of walking alone in the street. Once the cameras and troops have gone, they will only get worse. It is their nature

https://twitter.com/ajplus/status/1429921135949406210?s=20

I agree that the moral argument in Vietnam was much more finely balanced

RobD said:

rcs1000 said:

Alistair said:

Second like the democratic candidate for California Governor when the recall result hits.

There are thirty Republican candidates on the ballot for governor, and nine democrats.

There is no run off. The highest scoring - of the fifty total - candidate wins, even if they only get 10% of the total vote.

It is entirely possible that the winner will be a Democrat you have never heard of. It’s also possible that Republican Larry Elder wins, and is immediately repealed himself.

You'd think one of the two parties would realise that if you only put up one candidate, you would be guaranteed to win.

rcs1000 said:

Alistair said:

Second like the democratic candidate for California Governor when the recall result hits.

There are thirty Republican candidates on the ballot for governor, and nine democrats.

There is no run off. The highest scoring - of the fifty total - candidate wins, even if they only get 10% of the total vote.

It is entirely possible that the winner will be a Democrat you have never heard of. It’s also possible that Republican Larry Elder wins, and is immediately repealed himself.

RobD said:

rcs1000 said:

Alistair said:

Second like the democratic candidate for California Governor when the recall result hits.

There are thirty Republican candidates on the ballot for governor, and nine democrats.

There is no run off. The highest scoring - of the fifty total - candidate wins, even if they only get 10% of the total vote.

It is entirely possible that the winner will be a Democrat you have never heard of. It’s also possible that Republican Larry Elder wins, and is immediately repealed himself.

You'd think one of the two parties would realise that if you only put up one candidate, you would be guaranteed to win.

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Leon said:

IshmaelZ said:

HYUFD said:

The Taliban have set us a deadline of 31st August to complete all evacuations.

They have said any US and UK and western military presence in Afghanistan still after that date will provoke a response from them.

So we have a week to complete the process and get all refugees and troops out or face a bloodbath

We aren't going to get "all refugees" out. Ben Wallace has conceded this.

This is the most emotionally impacting foreign policy crisis I can remember. What matches it?

Tens of thousands of people at risk from a cruel and evil conqueror. A race to get them out

It's like Dunkirk with Korans

If it was Dunkirk the tens of thousands would be dead already. The conqueror reached the airport over a week ago and is providing airport security now to assist in the evacuation.

I can't think what compares.

It is a shock to many people because we, the West, who are generally right about everything morally and otherwise, have now conclusively lost to the wrong side.

It is so shocking because we all fundamentally think that we are in the right and the Taliban are in the wrong. With Vietnam, for example, there was (quite a strong) case to be made for the Viet Cong.

In this case, we are definitely on the right side, despite our many errors. The Taliban are pretty much pure evil

They are now beating women for the crime of walking alone in the street. Once the cameras and troops have gone, they will only get worse. It is their nature

https://twitter.com/ajplus/status/1429921135949406210?s=20

I agree that the moral argument in Vietnam was much more finely balanced

What is interesting is the conviction with which you think you are right and are in the right. Not that I disagree but you are like an atheist arguing with someone who believes in God or vice versa. Each side absolutely convinced of the truth of their position.

That is why this is so shocking.

kinabalu said:

HYUFD said:

IshmaelZ said:

HYUFD said:

The Taliban have set us a deadline of 31st August to complete all evacuations.

They have said any US and UK and western military presence in Afghanistan still after that date will provoke a response from them.

So we have a week to complete the process and get all refugees and troops out or face a bloodbath

We aren't going to get "all refugees" out. Ben Wallace has conceded this.

Well some will be left behind then and Biden by withdrawing will have left them to their fate at the hands of the Taliban.

If they are killed then he has responsibility as much as the Taliban

Not equal responsibility.

Philip_Thompson said:

RobD said:

Philip_Thompson said:

RobD said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Leon said:

IshmaelZ said:

HYUFD said:

The Taliban have set us a deadline of 31st August to complete all evacuations.

They have said any US and UK and western military presence in Afghanistan still after that date will provoke a response from them.

So we have a week to complete the process and get all refugees and troops out or face a bloodbath

We aren't going to get "all refugees" out. Ben Wallace has conceded this.

This is the most emotionally impacting foreign policy crisis I can remember. What matches it?

Tens of thousands of people at risk from a cruel and evil conqueror. A race to get them out

It's like Dunkirk with Korans

If it was Dunkirk the tens of thousands would be dead already. The conqueror reached the airport over a week ago and is providing airport security now to assist in the evacuation.

I can't think what compares.

Similar to Hitler's halt order, which gave some time for the evacuation.

Completely different.

There's extremely little evidence that the halt order was done in order to assist the evacuation. Instead the evidence is generally considered to be that it was to allow the German infantry to catch up, to preserve their Panzers and/or to allow the Luftwaffe to have the opportunity to destroy Dunkirk which is what Goring wanted.

What's happening now is more if the infantry etc had caught up after the halt order, then they resumed movement, got into Dunkirk and then they started assisting the British etc onto the ships instead of seeking to destroy them.

The Taliban aren't on the way to the airport, they're their and working side-by-side and even behind British lines to assist in security. Not something Hitler would have done. 😕

Yeah, I'm not arguing they are exactly the same. But the Taliban could have overrun the airport if they wanted to, much how Hitler could have overrun the port.

There's evidence that Hitler didn't realise he could overrun the port though, especially given faulty reporting due to the recent allied attack against the Panzers which had caught them by surprise so local commanders were asking for the halt. That's a very big difference to actually being at the port and not doing so.

Richard_Nabavi said:

Benpointer said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

TOPPING said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

TOPPING said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Presumably those planes are going back to Kabul almost empty.

Very inefficient. But if we filled them with Extinction Rebellion protesters, we'd get much lower average CO2 emissions per passenger.

One for you Richard. V amusing.

https://youtu.be/8rAmwMxQ7UY

Have you tried it? It sounds weird!

No but Guffens-Heynen is a master and I would certainly give it a try. But I might buy his Macon Pierreclos first!

Talking of wine, we hosted a Gruaud Larose dinner Chez Nabavi a couple of weeks ago: 2002, 2000, 1999, 1996, 1990, 1986, 1982, 1975, 1973, 1967, 1961. Quite an evening!

Eleven bottles of wine? Christ, how many of you were there?

Plus a magnum of Champagne and a very nice Rieussec 1999. Twelve of us. It was a long evening.

(Actually not quite as bad as it sounds.. We didn't finish all the bottles).

Richard_Nabavi said:

rcs1000 said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

I can't see any possibility of the Taliban extending the deadline. Why should they? As it is they are showing the world that the US has surrendered to them, and they can claim, with quite a lot of justification, that they have magnanimously kept to the agreed terms of the American surrender. They have lots of headstrong young men who want to get on with enjoying the sweets of victory, and plenty of scores to settle once the journalists have left. The West has nothing to offer them, or at least nothing that the West will be prepared to offer.

What utter tosh.

The taliban government needs sanctions lifted and funds unfreezed or there will be hundreds of thousands of starving Afghanis.

Well, whether or not they agree to a few days' extension, they're not going to get sanctions lifted and funds unfrozen, and they probably don't much care anyway about starving Afghanis anyway.

Charles said:

RobD said:

rcs1000 said:

Alistair said:

Second like the democratic candidate for California Governor when the recall result hits.

There are thirty Republican candidates on the ballot for governor, and nine democrats.

There is no run off. The highest scoring - of the fifty total - candidate wins, even if they only get 10% of the total vote.

It is entirely possible that the winner will be a Democrat you have never heard of. It’s also possible that Republican Larry Elder wins, and is immediately repealed himself.

You'd think one of the two parties would realise that if you only put up one candidate, you would be guaranteed to win.

Can you imagine the bloodletting as they chose a candidate? And all pointless as anyone can stand and call themselves a democrat or republican

Benpointer said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Benpointer said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

TOPPING said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

TOPPING said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Presumably those planes are going back to Kabul almost empty.

Very inefficient. But if we filled them with Extinction Rebellion protesters, we'd get much lower average CO2 emissions per passenger.

One for you Richard. V amusing.

https://youtu.be/8rAmwMxQ7UY

Have you tried it? It sounds weird!

No but Guffens-Heynen is a master and I would certainly give it a try. But I might buy his Macon Pierreclos first!

Talking of wine, we hosted a Gruaud Larose dinner Chez Nabavi a couple of weeks ago: 2002, 2000, 1999, 1996, 1990, 1986, 1982, 1975, 1973, 1967, 1961. Quite an evening!

Eleven bottles of wine? Christ, how many of you were there?

Plus a magnum of Champagne and a very nice Rieussec 1999. Twelve of us. It was a long evening.

(Actually not quite as bad as it sounds.. We didn't finish all the bottles).

What's the form in such a vertical tasting - oldest to youngest?

rcs1000 said:

Alistair said:

Second like the democratic candidate for California Governor when the recall result hits.

There are thirty Republican candidates on the ballot for governor, and nine democrats.

There is no run off. The highest scoring - of the fifty total - candidate wins, even if they only get 10% of the total vote.

It is entirely possible that the winner will be a Democrat you have never heard of. It’s also possible that Republican Larry Elder wins, and is immediately repealed himself.

HYUFD said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Leon said:

IshmaelZ said:

HYUFD said:

The Taliban have set us a deadline of 31st August to complete all evacuations.

They have said any US and UK and western military presence in Afghanistan still after that date will provoke a response from them.

So we have a week to complete the process and get all refugees and troops out or face a bloodbath

We aren't going to get "all refugees" out. Ben Wallace has conceded this.

This is the most emotionally impacting foreign policy crisis I can remember. What matches it?

Tens of thousands of people at risk from a cruel and evil conqueror. A race to get them out

It's like Dunkirk with Korans

If it was Dunkirk the tens of thousands would be dead already. The conqueror reached the airport over a week ago and is providing airport security now to assist in the evacuation.

I can't think what compares.

It is a shock to many people because we, the West, who are generally right about everything morally and otherwise, have now conclusively lost to the wrong side.

It is so shocking because we all fundamentally think that we are in the right and the Taliban are in the wrong. With Vietnam, for example, there was (quite a strong) case to be made for the Viet Cong.

In this case, we are definitely on the right side, despite our many errors. The Taliban are pretty much pure evil

They are now beating women for the crime of walking alone in the street. Once the cameras and troops have gone, they will only get worse. It is their nature

https://twitter.com/ajplus/status/1429921135949406210?s=20

I agree that the moral argument in Vietnam was much more finely balanced

What is interesting is the conviction with which you think you are right and are in the right. Not that I disagree but you are like an atheist arguing with someone who believes in God or vice versa. Each side absolutely convinced of the truth of their position.

That is why this is so shocking.

The inability of so many westerners now, especially those coming out of western universities, to believe in the values of freedom and liberty and democracy and the achievements of western civilisation and our heritage and to be willing to defend them is precisely why the more ideological communists of China and the jihadis of the Middle East and North Africa and South Asia may get the upper hand.

Leon said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Leon said:

Is this the greatest catch in the history of cricket?

And by a lady, no less

https://twitter.com/AhmodShadi/status/1414476212018155521?s=20

No.

Its a stunning catch, that style is always stunning, but that style of catch is actually much more common than you'd expect. Seen a fair few of them this year alone.

Fair enough. I've never seen it before. Looks brilliant