I am shocked by this poll finding – politicalbetting.com

StuartDickson said:

Neil Oliver on GB News: he won’t let his teenage children take Covid19 vaccine.

(The age of majority is 16 in Scotland. But does Oliver live in his home country?)

Stirling.

Not clear whether the former guardian of Scottish culture (at NTS) has children of an actually relevant age or if he is just getting out the same old Airfix Spitfires to play with.

ydoethur said:

kle4 said:

ydoethur said:

Gordon bloody Bennet.

Where do they dig these imbeciles up?

Afghanistan troop withdrawal a strategic mistake, warns ex-general
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58139590

(No, not that, which is perfectly reasonable. It’s this.)

‘A UK Government spokeswoman said: "We recognise that the security situation in Afghanistan is serious, and reports of the escalating violence are extremely disturbing.

We do not believe there is any military solution to Afghanistan's conflict, and call on the Taliban to end their campaign of violence and engage in meaningful dialogue with the Afghan government.

There needs to be a negotiated solution to ensure a lasting peace."’

How could anyone spout BS like that with a straight face?

Whatever the reasons for our withdrawal from Afghanistan, it should have been recognised and understood that in doing so the country was being handed back to the Taleban.

I'm sure it was recognised and understood, they just won't say it.

I don't know why anyone would work in government PR, it seems soul destroying. As you say, calling on the winning side to stop winning is just idiotic to say.

The problem is not that they can’t say it, it’s that they’ve said something demonstrably untrue.

There is an obvious military solution to Afghanistan’s current situation. A total Taleban victory. Which, to judge from the last 72 hours, is what is about to happen.

The fact that it is a very bad solution indeed for everyone other than the mullahs of the Taleban isn’t a military problem.

I’m in a difficult situation here because I never thought we should have invaded in 2001 anyway. I didn’t see what we could achieve or how we could achieve it.

And unfortunately, after twenty years of fighting that has cost thousands of lives, damaged Afghanistan further, and spread instability into other countries around, we’re back where we started.

Had we not invaded Bin Laden would still be alive and Al Qaeda still a significant presence in the country.

If the Taliban retake full control and invite Al Qaeda back we will have no choice but to invade again or face thousands of western deaths in New York, Paris and London from terror cells trained and launched from Afghanistan

Combining the two topics du jour: what about an UK supported Edinburgh* bid to host the Olympics in 2036?

(*or Glasgow, though I think Edinburgh carries more international clout.)

Charles said:

Andy_JS said:

Charles said:

MaxPB said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

Intriguingly, the final medal table is a pretty good proxy for The Five Greatest Countries on Earth

USA
China
Japan
Great Britain
Russia

That’s basically the UN Security Council right there. The five most powerful and influential nations, the five most culturally dominant countries, with the most important languages, the best universities, the grandest art, the most epic history, the biggest and bravest empires, basically the flower of humanity.

Beneath them come the funny little EU provinces - ‘Italy’, ‘France’ - pretty and well-meaning but not of great seriousness. Below them there’s just a lot of places no one has ever heard of, with weird pickled veg for breakfast.

Odd how sport mimics and underlines reality.

I’d much rather be part of a Switzerland - small, prosperous, rule of law, democratic - than a China or a Russia.

Switzerland isn't in the EU and is terribly dull. I've lived there and been more than most other people, unsurprisingly given that my wife is Swiss.

I used to spend time in Lutzern and Grindelwald when I was younger. Much more than a week now and it’s hard work…

Why is it hard work?

It’s very pedestrian and cut off from the rest of the world. Nice for a break but - for me at least - I get antsy after a while unless I’m skiing or climbing.

I've been skiing three times, when I was 13, 14 and 16, each time with my school. I never thought I wouldn't do it again for so long. Switzerland once and Austria twice. Useless facts.

Alba is once again demonstrating that it was/is a Twitter only party

https://twitter.com/davieclegg/status/1424456042059010051?s=19

Carnyx said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Carnyx said:

YoungTurk said:

If we wanted to make it a tatartodozen of plebiscites this century in England, after Brexit and AV, why not hold a referendum on building Hadrian's Wall 10 foot higher English independence? Winning the World Cup in 1966 as a non-independent country still smarts.

Rebuilding Hadrian's Wall would transfer Bigg Market on a Friday night to Scotland. I know we have the Byres Road in Glasgow, and Coogait in Edinburgh, but really.

Or we could extend England as far as the Antonine Wall.

After all, Edinburgh was part of Northumbria for a while.

But you don't want to go down that road because some of what is now England was part of Denmark not much later.

Some days I'd happily concede that England was still part of Normandy. The cuisine, the calvodos, and good Brie too!

ydoethur said:

squareroot2 said:

Aslan said:

tlg86 said:

state_go_away said:

tlg86 said:

Benpointer said:

tlg86 said:

Earlier I posted an alternative Olympic medal table where only medals in different sports were counted. I actually think some of the groupings of events into sports is unfair (especially track and field), so I've regrouped the following:

Remove BMX freestyle from cycling
Split up Canoe sprint and slalom
Combine multi-discipline events: triathlon, modern pentathlon, heptathlon and decathlon
Split track and field into:
Walking
Running (800m, 1500m, 5000m, 10000m, and Marathon)
Sprinting (100m, 200m, 400m, 100/110m hurdles, 400m hurdles, and relays)
Jumping (long, high, triple)
Pole vaulting
Throwing (discuss, shot, hammer, and javelin)

This gives the following table (diff is to the official table):

Rank, Diff, Team, Gold, Silver, Bronze, Total
1. (0), United States, 17, 18, 15, 30
2. (0), China, 13, 14, 10, 21
3. (0), Japan, 11, 13, 13, 20
4. (+1), ROC, 10, 13, 10, 19
5. (-1), Great Britain, 9, 12, 18, 21
6. (+3), Germany, 8, 10, 9, 17
7. (+3), Italy, 8, 7, 11, 18
8. (0), France, 7, 8, 8, 15
9. (-3), Australia, 7, 5, 12, 19
10. (+1), Canada, 7, 4, 8, 13
11. (+1), Brazil, 7, 4, 6, 13
12. (-5), Netherlands, 5, 7, 9, 12
13. (+2), Hungary, 4, 5, 6, 9
14. (+4), Czech Republic, 4, 4, 3, 7
15. (+5), Norway, 4, 2, 2, 8
16. (+6), Spain, 3, 7, 5, 14
17. (0), Poland, 3, 5, 4, 8
18. (+5), Sweden, 3, 5, 0, 6
19. (-6), New Zealand, 3, 4, 6, 11
19. (-3), South Korea, 3, 4, 6, 8
21. (-7), Cuba, 3, 3, 5, 8
22. (+3), Denmark, 3, 3, 3, 8
23. (+3), Croatia, 3, 3, 2, 5
24. (0), Switzerland, 3, 2, 5, 6
25. (+2), Iran, 3, 2, 1, 4
26. (+2), Serbia, 3, 1, 5, 7
27. (+2), Belgium, 3, 1, 3, 7
28. (+2), Bulgaria, 3, 1, 1, 5
28. (+3), Slovenia, 3, 1, 1, 4
30. (+2), Uzbekistan, 3, 0, 2, 5
31. (+3), Chinese Taipei, 2, 4, 6, 10
32. (+3), Turkey, 2, 2, 4, 6
33. (0), Georgia, 2, 2, 1, 3
34. (+2), Greece, 2, 1, 1, 4
35. (+3), Ecuador, 2, 1, 0, 2
36. (+3), Ireland, 2, 0, 2, 2
37. (+4), Qatar, 2, 0, 1, 3
38. (+6), Ukraine, 1, 6, 10, 12
39. (+9), India, 1, 2, 4, 6
40. (+5), Belarus, 1, 2, 3, 4
41. (+9), Slovakia, 1, 2, 1, 4
42. (+4), Romania, 1, 2, 0, 2
42. (+4), Venezuela, 1, 2, 0, 3
42. (+10), South Africa, 1, 2, 0, 2
45. (+8), Austria, 1, 1, 5, 6
46. (+3), Hong Kong, 1, 1, 3, 5
46. (+8), Egypt, 1, 1, 3, 4
48. (+7), Indonesia, 1, 1, 2, 2
48. (+8), Portugal, 1, 1, 2, 3
50. (-31), Kenya, 1, 1, 1, 1
50. (-29), Jamaica, 1, 1, 1, 1
50. (-14), Uganda, 1, 1, 1, 1
50. (0), Philippines, 1, 1, 1, 2
50. (+6), Ethiopia, 1, 1, 1, 1
55. (+3), Tunisia, 1, 1, 0, 2
56. (-17), Israel, 1, 0, 2, 3
57. (+2), Estonia, 1, 0, 1, 1
57. (+2), Fiji, 1, 0, 1, 1
57. (+2), Latvia, 1, 0, 1, 2
57. (+2), Thailand, 1, 0, 1, 2
61. (-19), Bahamas, 1, 0, 0, 1
61. (-19), Kosovo, 1, 0, 0, 1
61. (+2), Bermuda, 1, 0, 0, 1
61. (+2), Morocco, 1, 0, 0, 1
61. (+2), Puerto Rico, 1, 0, 0, 1

I think this better reflects how good the Americans are. And we can take heart from tying China in terms of medalling in different sports.

Seems like utter bollocks to me. Why split athletics like that? Why combine modern pentathlon, triathlon , heptathlon and decathlon? Why split canoe sprint and slalom (and yet keep equestrian dressage with jumping)?

Surely you could split it all up in whatever way to wished to make whatever point you were looking to make?

I thought about equestrian, but I think the involvement of a horse means that it's fair enough to keep it altogether.

I think the athletics deserves to be split up more because the disciplines are very different. The sprinting/running are more different than say the different distances in the swimming, in my opinion.

The two types of canoeing seem completely different to me. Perhaps there's a case for sticking the canoe sprint with the rowing as they are a bit similar.

Good points although think "fighting" should be more grouped - Judo,wrestling and Karate are simalar for instance.Also think diving is more gymnastics than swimming

Diving is separate from swimming and I think it deserves to be its own category.

I know little about the fighting sports and whether they are sufficiently similar to be grouped. My instinct is that they should be separate. As an aside, I think Taekwondo is the best of those types of sports.

Having dressage as a sport is ridiculous.

I tell you what , you try it and see how you get on.....

With dressage, isn’t it how you fall off that counts?

Nobody ever falls off in horse dancing, shirley?

StuartDickson said:

Benpointer said:

StuartDickson said:

Neil Oliver on GB News: he won’t let his teenage children take Covid19 vaccine.

(The age of majority is 16 in Scotland. But does Oliver live in his home country?)

What a total dick he is. He lives in Stirling according to wiki but I imagine Scotland would be glad to export him.

If he lives in Stirling then any teenage children age 16 or over will make their own decision. None of his business.

‘Covid in Scotland: Drop-in vaccine clinics open for 16-17-year-olds’

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-58128523.amp

As I say, he's a total dick.

HYUFD said:

ydoethur said:

kle4 said:

ydoethur said:

Gordon bloody Bennet.

Where do they dig these imbeciles up?

Afghanistan troop withdrawal a strategic mistake, warns ex-general
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58139590

(No, not that, which is perfectly reasonable. It’s this.)

‘A UK Government spokeswoman said: "We recognise that the security situation in Afghanistan is serious, and reports of the escalating violence are extremely disturbing.

We do not believe there is any military solution to Afghanistan's conflict, and call on the Taliban to end their campaign of violence and engage in meaningful dialogue with the Afghan government.

There needs to be a negotiated solution to ensure a lasting peace."’

How could anyone spout BS like that with a straight face?

Whatever the reasons for our withdrawal from Afghanistan, it should have been recognised and understood that in doing so the country was being handed back to the Taleban.

I'm sure it was recognised and understood, they just won't say it.

I don't know why anyone would work in government PR, it seems soul destroying. As you say, calling on the winning side to stop winning is just idiotic to say.

The problem is not that they can’t say it, it’s that they’ve said something demonstrably untrue.

There is an obvious military solution to Afghanistan’s current situation. A total Taleban victory. Which, to judge from the last 72 hours, is what is about to happen.

The fact that it is a very bad solution indeed for everyone other than the mullahs of the Taleban isn’t a military problem.

I’m in a difficult situation here because I never thought we should have invaded in 2001 anyway. I didn’t see what we could achieve or how we could achieve it.

And unfortunately, after twenty years of fighting that has cost thousands of lives, damaged Afghanistan further, and spread instability into other countries around, we’re back where we started.

Had we not invaded Bin Laden would still be alive and Al Qaeda still a significant presence in the country.

If the Taliban retake full control and invite Al Qaeda back we will have no choice but to invade again or face thousands of western deaths in New York, Paris and London from terror cells trained and launched from Afghanistan

Bin Laden was killed in Pakistan by a commando raid. I don’t see how the war in Afghanistan had a large bearing on that. In fact, by driving him underground and turning the locals against the West it may have delayed his being located. In 2001 the Americans were privately briefing they believed he was dead, which tells me they didn’t know what the hell had happened to him.

HYUFD said:

ydoethur said:

kle4 said:

ydoethur said:

Gordon bloody Bennet.

Where do they dig these imbeciles up?

Afghanistan troop withdrawal a strategic mistake, warns ex-general
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58139590

(No, not that, which is perfectly reasonable. It’s this.)

‘A UK Government spokeswoman said: "We recognise that the security situation in Afghanistan is serious, and reports of the escalating violence are extremely disturbing.

We do not believe there is any military solution to Afghanistan's conflict, and call on the Taliban to end their campaign of violence and engage in meaningful dialogue with the Afghan government.

There needs to be a negotiated solution to ensure a lasting peace."’

How could anyone spout BS like that with a straight face?

Whatever the reasons for our withdrawal from Afghanistan, it should have been recognised and understood that in doing so the country was being handed back to the Taleban.

I'm sure it was recognised and understood, they just won't say it.

I don't know why anyone would work in government PR, it seems soul destroying. As you say, calling on the winning side to stop winning is just idiotic to say.

The problem is not that they can’t say it, it’s that they’ve said something demonstrably untrue.

There is an obvious military solution to Afghanistan’s current situation. A total Taleban victory. Which, to judge from the last 72 hours, is what is about to happen.

The fact that it is a very bad solution indeed for everyone other than the mullahs of the Taleban isn’t a military problem.

I’m in a difficult situation here because I never thought we should have invaded in 2001 anyway. I didn’t see what we could achieve or how we could achieve it.

And unfortunately, after twenty years of fighting that has cost thousands of lives, damaged Afghanistan further, and spread instability into other countries around, we’re back where we started.

Had we not invaded Bin Laden would still be alive and Al Qaeda still a significant presence in the country.

If the Taliban retake full control and invite Al Qaeda back we will have no choice but to invade again or face thousands of western deaths in New York, Paris and London from terror cells trained and launched from Afghanistan

Although the 9/11 terrorists were trained in Florida, not Afghanistan.

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

ydoethur said:

kle4 said:

ydoethur said:

Gordon bloody Bennet.

Where do they dig these imbeciles up?

Afghanistan troop withdrawal a strategic mistake, warns ex-general
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58139590

(No, not that, which is perfectly reasonable. It’s this.)

‘A UK Government spokeswoman said: "We recognise that the security situation in Afghanistan is serious, and reports of the escalating violence are extremely disturbing.

We do not believe there is any military solution to Afghanistan's conflict, and call on the Taliban to end their campaign of violence and engage in meaningful dialogue with the Afghan government.

There needs to be a negotiated solution to ensure a lasting peace."’

How could anyone spout BS like that with a straight face?

Whatever the reasons for our withdrawal from Afghanistan, it should have been recognised and understood that in doing so the country was being handed back to the Taleban.

I'm sure it was recognised and understood, they just won't say it.

I don't know why anyone would work in government PR, it seems soul destroying. As you say, calling on the winning side to stop winning is just idiotic to say.

The problem is not that they can’t say it, it’s that they’ve said something demonstrably untrue.

There is an obvious military solution to Afghanistan’s current situation. A total Taleban victory. Which, to judge from the last 72 hours, is what is about to happen.

The fact that it is a very bad solution indeed for everyone other than the mullahs of the Taleban isn’t a military problem.

I’m in a difficult situation here because I never thought we should have invaded in 2001 anyway. I didn’t see what we could achieve or how we could achieve it.

And unfortunately, after twenty years of fighting that has cost thousands of lives, damaged Afghanistan further, and spread instability into other countries around, we’re back where we started.

Had we not invaded Bin Laden would still be alive and Al Qaeda still a significant presence in the country.

If the Taliban retake full control and invite Al Qaeda back we will have no choice but to invade again or face thousands of western deaths in New York, Paris and London from terror cells trained and launched from Afghanistan

Although the 9/11 terrorists were trained in Florida, not Afghanistan.

Well, Florida is as we are repeatedly being told a hotbed of anti-Washington sentiment.

HYUFD said:

Candy said:

ydoethur said:

Whatever the reasons for our withdrawal from Afghanistan, it should have been recognised and understood that in doing so the country was being handed back to the Taleban.

According to this tweet:

https://twitter.com/MacaesBruno/status/1424059898753548291

"Why is Biden leaving? "We have to leave so everything is completely forgotten by the midterms""

Biden is a lot more ruthless than Trump. When Trump sacked John Bolton for warmogering, he kept saying "You don't have to kill people. You don't always have to kill people". He had a peaceful four years with very few foreign deaths.

Biden isn't as squeamish. He thinks there will be a lot of carnage but he doesn't care because he thinks Americans will have forgotten it all by midterms.

It won't be forgotten. If Kabul falls it defines his Presidency as that of a weak loser and Americans do not forgive losers in the Oval Office.

He would only be the second US President since WW2 to lose a war after Ford saw Saigon fall on his watch, Ford was not re elected.

Ford at least had the excuse Democrats on Congress cut off funding for the war, Biden has his party in control of Congress now

You live in a fantasy world of your own construction.

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

DougSeal said:

Any chance we can move on from the foundational debates about Scottish Independence for a bit? No? Okay. Just asking.

It's actually been quite interesting, because of the point made by Foxy. The implication is: if you don't accept referenda on demand as a means of change then you have to accept parliamentary representation. At what point does refusal fo a referendum force acceptance of the SNP majority at Westminster as automatic start to negotiations for independence implementation?

Yet under the so-called constitution no government or parliament at Westminster can bind its successors (except in the case of external treaties, etc.). So there is at the same time a clear time limit for any government's refusal of a referendum.

The two aren't easily reconciled.

No you don't, the Spanish government has easily refused the Catalan Nationalists even one referendum, the Nationalist majority in Catalan MPs is also irrelevant to Madrid. Time to play hardball, no concessions whatsoever to the Nationalists from this Tory government. Sturgeon unlike Salmond is so weak unlike the Catalan nationalists she has ruled out a wildcat referendum and UDI

Don't let me stop you from getting excited about grannies being smashed in the face for daring to vote.

The granny smashing seems to have worked, however.

For the record, I am not recommending we send in the SAS to beat up the babushkas of Dundee, just noting it

Even more startling, the EU has quietly accepted this, apparently

ydoethur said:

HYUFD said:

ydoethur said:

kle4 said:

ydoethur said:

Gordon bloody Bennet.

Where do they dig these imbeciles up?

Afghanistan troop withdrawal a strategic mistake, warns ex-general
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58139590

(No, not that, which is perfectly reasonable. It’s this.)

‘A UK Government spokeswoman said: "We recognise that the security situation in Afghanistan is serious, and reports of the escalating violence are extremely disturbing.

We do not believe there is any military solution to Afghanistan's conflict, and call on the Taliban to end their campaign of violence and engage in meaningful dialogue with the Afghan government.

There needs to be a negotiated solution to ensure a lasting peace."’

How could anyone spout BS like that with a straight face?

Whatever the reasons for our withdrawal from Afghanistan, it should have been recognised and understood that in doing so the country was being handed back to the Taleban.

I'm sure it was recognised and understood, they just won't say it.

I don't know why anyone would work in government PR, it seems soul destroying. As you say, calling on the winning side to stop winning is just idiotic to say.

The problem is not that they can’t say it, it’s that they’ve said something demonstrably untrue.

There is an obvious military solution to Afghanistan’s current situation. A total Taleban victory. Which, to judge from the last 72 hours, is what is about to happen.

The fact that it is a very bad solution indeed for everyone other than the mullahs of the Taleban isn’t a military problem.

I’m in a difficult situation here because I never thought we should have invaded in 2001 anyway. I didn’t see what we could achieve or how we could achieve it.

And unfortunately, after twenty years of fighting that has cost thousands of lives, damaged Afghanistan further, and spread instability into other countries around, we’re back where we started.

Had we not invaded Bin Laden would still be alive and Al Qaeda still a significant presence in the country.

If the Taliban retake full control and invite Al Qaeda back we will have no choice but to invade again or face thousands of western deaths in New York, Paris and London from terror cells trained and launched from Afghanistan

Bin Laden was killed in Pakistan by a commando raid. I don’t see how the war in Afghanistan had a large bearing on that. In fact, by driving him underground and turning the locals against the West it may have delayed his being located. In 2001 the Americans were privately briefing they believed he was dead, which tells me they didn’t know what the hell had happened to him.

Bin Laden only ended up in Pakistan for US special forces to kill him because the invasion forced him out of Afganistan.

Had there been no invasion Bin Laden would still be alive in the Pakistan mountains now leading his training camps of terror to rain fire on the West.

George W Bush may have made a mistake going in to Iraq (albeit it is now a democracy) but on Afghanistan he was right, to go in hard and crush the Taliban and Al Qaeda. Blair to his credit backed him to the hilt.

Obama to be fair to him also followed suit and took the opportunity to kill Bin Laden.

Biden and Harris it seems are weakly withdrawing troops and abandoning Afghans to their fate, no matter the cost to them or in future terrorist actions. It is shameful.

Any future terrorist attacks on a western city can be blamed firmly on the Biden administration as can any future Taliban atrocities outside of their heartlands if they take full control.

Mind you Boris should have been tougher too.

It says something that the toughest western leader at the moment on taking on radical, extremist Islam is President Macron

ydoethur said:

Carnyx said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

ydoethur said:

kle4 said:

ydoethur said:

Gordon bloody Bennet.

Where do they dig these imbeciles up?

Afghanistan troop withdrawal a strategic mistake, warns ex-general
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58139590

(No, not that, which is perfectly reasonable. It’s this.)

‘A UK Government spokeswoman said: "We recognise that the security situation in Afghanistan is serious, and reports of the escalating violence are extremely disturbing.

We do not believe there is any military solution to Afghanistan's conflict, and call on the Taliban to end their campaign of violence and engage in meaningful dialogue with the Afghan government.

There needs to be a negotiated solution to ensure a lasting peace."’

How could anyone spout BS like that with a straight face?

Whatever the reasons for our withdrawal from Afghanistan, it should have been recognised and understood that in doing so the country was being handed back to the Taleban.

I'm sure it was recognised and understood, they just won't say it.

I don't know why anyone would work in government PR, it seems soul destroying. As you say, calling on the winning side to stop winning is just idiotic to say.

The problem is not that they can’t say it, it’s that they’ve said something demonstrably untrue.

There is an obvious military solution to Afghanistan’s current situation. A total Taleban victory. Which, to judge from the last 72 hours, is what is about to happen.

The fact that it is a very bad solution indeed for everyone other than the mullahs of the Taleban isn’t a military problem.

I’m in a difficult situation here because I never thought we should have invaded in 2001 anyway. I didn’t see what we could achieve or how we could achieve it.

And unfortunately, after twenty years of fighting that has cost thousands of lives, damaged Afghanistan further, and spread instability into other countries around, we’re back where we started.

Had we not invaded Bin Laden would still be alive and Al Qaeda still a significant presence in the country.

If the Taliban retake full control and invite Al Qaeda back we will have no choice but to invade again or face thousands of western deaths in New York, Paris and London from terror cells trained and launched from Afghanistan

Although the 9/11 terrorists were trained in Florida, not Afghanistan.

So we should bomb Florida?

Well, it might eliminate the biggest danger to America if we did.

But it would surely radicalise those violent elements among his followers into carrying out yet more terrorist attacks.

Those violent elements are heavily armed too.

HYUFD said:

ydoethur said:

HYUFD said:

ydoethur said:

kle4 said:

ydoethur said:

Gordon bloody Bennet.

Where do they dig these imbeciles up?

Afghanistan troop withdrawal a strategic mistake, warns ex-general
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58139590

(No, not that, which is perfectly reasonable. It’s this.)

‘A UK Government spokeswoman said: "We recognise that the security situation in Afghanistan is serious, and reports of the escalating violence are extremely disturbing.

We do not believe there is any military solution to Afghanistan's conflict, and call on the Taliban to end their campaign of violence and engage in meaningful dialogue with the Afghan government.

There needs to be a negotiated solution to ensure a lasting peace."’

How could anyone spout BS like that with a straight face?

Whatever the reasons for our withdrawal from Afghanistan, it should have been recognised and understood that in doing so the country was being handed back to the Taleban.

I'm sure it was recognised and understood, they just won't say it.

I don't know why anyone would work in government PR, it seems soul destroying. As you say, calling on the winning side to stop winning is just idiotic to say.

The problem is not that they can’t say it, it’s that they’ve said something demonstrably untrue.

There is an obvious military solution to Afghanistan’s current situation. A total Taleban victory. Which, to judge from the last 72 hours, is what is about to happen.

The fact that it is a very bad solution indeed for everyone other than the mullahs of the Taleban isn’t a military problem.

I’m in a difficult situation here because I never thought we should have invaded in 2001 anyway. I didn’t see what we could achieve or how we could achieve it.

And unfortunately, after twenty years of fighting that has cost thousands of lives, damaged Afghanistan further, and spread instability into other countries around, we’re back where we started.

Had we not invaded Bin Laden would still be alive and Al Qaeda still a significant presence in the country.

If the Taliban retake full control and invite Al Qaeda back we will have no choice but to invade again or face thousands of western deaths in New York, Paris and London from terror cells trained and launched from Afghanistan

Bin Laden was killed in Pakistan by a commando raid. I don’t see how the war in Afghanistan had a large bearing on that. In fact, by driving him underground and turning the locals against the West it may have delayed his being located. In 2001 the Americans were privately briefing they believed he was dead, which tells me they didn’t know what the hell had happened to him.

Bin Laden only ended up in Pakistan for US special forces to kill him because the invasion forced him out of Afganistan.

Had there been no invasion Bin Laden would still be alive in the Pakistan mountains now leading his training camps of terror to rain fire on the West.

George W Bush may have made a mistake going in to Iraq (albeit it is now a democracy) but on Afghanistan he was right, to go in hard and crush the Taliban and Al Qaeda. Blair to his credit backed him to the hilt.

Obama to be fair to him also followed suit and took the opportunity to kill Bin Laden.

Biden and Harris it seems are weakly withdrawing troops and abanding Afghans to their fate, no matter the cost to them or in future terrorist actions. It is shameful.

Any future terrorist attacks on a western city can be blamed firmly on the Biden administration as can any future Taliban atrocities outside of their heartlands if they take full control.

Mind you Boris should have been tougher too.

Can I just check - you do know that it was Trump who withdrew all of the troops, don’t you? All Biden has done is basically stick to his timetable.

In your second paragraph I assume you mean ‘Afghan.’ In this you are not necessarily correct. The Taleban were willing to hand him over and expel Al-Qaeda from the country before the invasion started, in exchange for a guarantee that the Americans wouldn’t invade.

Would that have been a great solution? No, because the Taleban are ultimately murderous violent pigs who would be considered dangerously violent and creepy by the Aztecs. Would it have been better than what actually happened? Hard to say ‘no,’ isn’t it?

Benpointer said:

Just watched the marthon runner bottle man, at real time.

Nothing malicious in it at all IMO. He's clearly tired, focused on the race, and struggling to pick up a bottle.

Now the nationalist frenzy has abated somewhat you might just about get away with this..

Benpointer said:

Just watched the marthon runner bottle man, at real time.

Nothing malicious in it at all IMO. He's clearly tired, focused on the race, and struggling to pick up a bottle.

Bollocks

If you watch it in slow motion, he tries to pretend he's fumbling for a bottle, but he clearly intends to knock them all over, and then - surprise - just manages to grab the last one, very easily. Leaving no others.

At some points he is not even attempting to pick up the bottles, just flapping them out of the way


That said, I don't think he deserves the worldwide crucifixion he is now getting. It was a mean spirited bit of sportsmanship, but not a capital crime

Scott_xP said:

🛒The shortage of qualified drivers has reached crisis point, with ministers now examining every means possible to keep Britain supplied https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/08/08/army-standby-restock-britains-shelves-amid-truck-driver-shortage/?utm_content=telegraph&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1628438506

Any EU countries got the army on standby to deliver groceries?
https://twitter.com/UB5simon/status/1424352273061273600

I am going to guess the Telegraph is over-hyping this one and the cahcnes are it will all come to nothing.

On the other hand, if it developed into a series of major shortages this government is well and truly f*cked.

Omnium said:

I ran out of some key ingredients (ok wine), and ordered a Deliveroo from Sainsburys.

I got a call (from Sainsburys) saying that it had been intercepted and stolen, and that there'd thus be a delay.

I insisted that I'd want to know how the reporting to the police was happening, but they seemed reluctant to say. The order turned up (un-intercepted) 20 or so minutes later. I'm almost sure there's no police report.

I would very much like to eradicate this sort of shit. Any suggestions?

(I will of course be sending emails to Deliveroo and Sainsbury's about this, and I'll be copying in the Met. With the Met I'll also be insisting on a response.)

It's insane that such things should be normal.

Maybe sleep on it and avoid wasting valuable police time that could otherwise be spent looking for serial killers or investigating offensive tweets. I use Deliveroo every day (well, six days a week) and every now and then – every few months – there is a bug where the map showing the delivery driver's location does not update correctly or at all. It is possible that Sainsbury's were misled by this or some other bug. Or it could be a scam involving the driver and a Sainsbury's insider but unless you are ordering champagne by the case and caviar by the kilogram, how likely is it?

TheScreamingEagles said:

Unbelievable.

Alex Hales gets hit in the nuts two deliveries in a row.

He deserves an England recall after that.

If only he were playing cricket, somebody might think it worth a recall.

Leon said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

DougSeal said:

Any chance we can move on from the foundational debates about Scottish Independence for a bit? No? Okay. Just asking.

It's actually been quite interesting, because of the point made by Foxy. The implication is: if you don't accept referenda on demand as a means of change then you have to accept parliamentary representation. At what point does refusal fo a referendum force acceptance of the SNP majority at Westminster as automatic start to negotiations for independence implementation?

Yet under the so-called constitution no government or parliament at Westminster can bind its successors (except in the case of external treaties, etc.). So there is at the same time a clear time limit for any government's refusal of a referendum.

The two aren't easily reconciled.

No you don't, the Spanish government has easily refused the Catalan Nationalists even one referendum, the Nationalist majority in Catalan MPs is also irrelevant to Madrid. Time to play hardball, no concessions whatsoever to the Nationalists from this Tory government. Sturgeon unlike Salmond is so weak unlike the Catalan nationalists she has ruled out a wildcat referendum and UDI

Don't let me stop you from getting excited about grannies being smashed in the face for daring to vote.

The granny smashing seems to have worked, however.

For the record, I am not recommending we send in the SAS to beat up the babushkas of Dundee, just noting it

Even more startling, the EU has quietly accepted this, apparently

What Madrid did show was appeasing Nationalists never works, otherwise we will be giving them endless referenda whenever they want until they get the result they want.

No London has to stand firm and tough and give them no concessions whatsoever, 2014 was a once in a generation referendum, end of. Make firm and clear they will get no legal indyref2 under this Tory government.

If they rant and throw their toys out the pram, tough.

TheScreamingEagles said:

HYUFD said:

Candy said:

ydoethur said:

Whatever the reasons for our withdrawal from Afghanistan, it should have been recognised and understood that in doing so the country was being handed back to the Taleban.

According to this tweet:

https://twitter.com/MacaesBruno/status/1424059898753548291

"Why is Biden leaving? "We have to leave so everything is completely forgotten by the midterms""

Biden is a lot more ruthless than Trump. When Trump sacked John Bolton for warmogering, he kept saying "You don't have to kill people. You don't always have to kill people". He had a peaceful four years with very few foreign deaths.

Biden isn't as squeamish. He thinks there will be a lot of carnage but he doesn't care because he thinks Americans will have forgotten it all by midterms.

It won't be forgotten. If Kabul falls it defines his Presidency as that of a weak loser and Americans do not forgive losers in the Oval Office.

He would only be the second US President since WW2 to lose a war after Ford saw Saigon fall on his watch, Ford was not re elected.

Ford at least had the excuse Democrats on Congress cut off funding for the war, Biden has his party in control of Congress now

So you're saying Ford wasn't re-elected because of the fall of Saigon and not his pardon of Nixon and the wider Watergate fallout?

Particularly since Nixon was the one who initiated the policy of Vietnamisation that ultimately failed.

Benpointer said:

Scott_xP said:

🛒The shortage of qualified drivers has reached crisis point, with ministers now examining every means possible to keep Britain supplied https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/08/08/army-standby-restock-britains-shelves-amid-truck-driver-shortage/?utm_content=telegraph&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1628438506

Any EU countries got the army on standby to deliver groceries?
https://twitter.com/UB5simon/status/1424352273061273600

I am going to guess the Telegraph is over-hyping this one and the cahcnes are it will all come to nothing.

On the other hand, if it developed into a series of major shortages this government is well and truly f*cked.

The ending of self-isolation for vaccinated people in about a week should help.

rcs1000 said:

eek said:

One for @rcs1000 - an overview on why inflation is continually low

https://eu.thestarpress.com/story/opinion/columnists/2021/08/08/michael-hicks-inflation-puzzle-partly-solved/5504806001/

The argument is basically flexible labour markets and monopolies. One to have a think about

Surely monopolies would lead to higher prices… perhaps he means monopsony?

I will need to find his doctoral thesis but - this is his claim

Larger firms tend to change prices less frequently, even when others around them do so. At least, that is what my doctoral dissertation reported.

Scott_xP said:

Benpointer said:

I am going to guess the Telegraph is over-hyping this one and the cahcnes are it will all come to nothing.

On the other hand, if it developed into a series of major shortages this government is well and truly f*cked.

When the Telegraph, the most pro-Brexit and pro-BoZo paper in the World, is raising concerns, then somebody in Downing Street is severely worried.

You may have a point. Time will tell.

IshmaelZ said:

TOPPING said:

IshmaelZ said:

Aslan said:

tlg86 said:

state_go_away said:

tlg86 said:

Benpointer said:

tlg86 said:

Earlier I posted an alternative Olympic medal table where only medals in different sports were counted. I actually think some of the groupings of events into sports is unfair (especially track and field), so I've regrouped the following:

Remove BMX freestyle from cycling
Split up Canoe sprint and slalom
Combine multi-discipline events: triathlon, modern pentathlon, heptathlon and decathlon
Split track and field into:
Walking
Running (800m, 1500m, 5000m, 10000m, and Marathon)
Sprinting (100m, 200m, 400m, 100/110m hurdles, 400m hurdles, and relays)
Jumping (long, high, triple)
Pole vaulting
Throwing (discuss, shot, hammer, and javelin)

This gives the following table (diff is to the official table):

Rank, Diff, Team, Gold, Silver, Bronze, Total
1. (0), United States, 17, 18, 15, 30
2. (0), China, 13, 14, 10, 21
3. (0), Japan, 11, 13, 13, 20
4. (+1), ROC, 10, 13, 10, 19
5. (-1), Great Britain, 9, 12, 18, 21
6. (+3), Germany, 8, 10, 9, 17
7. (+3), Italy, 8, 7, 11, 18
8. (0), France, 7, 8, 8, 15
9. (-3), Australia, 7, 5, 12, 19
10. (+1), Canada, 7, 4, 8, 13
11. (+1), Brazil, 7, 4, 6, 13
12. (-5), Netherlands, 5, 7, 9, 12
13. (+2), Hungary, 4, 5, 6, 9
14. (+4), Czech Republic, 4, 4, 3, 7
15. (+5), Norway, 4, 2, 2, 8
16. (+6), Spain, 3, 7, 5, 14
17. (0), Poland, 3, 5, 4, 8
18. (+5), Sweden, 3, 5, 0, 6
19. (-6), New Zealand, 3, 4, 6, 11
19. (-3), South Korea, 3, 4, 6, 8
21. (-7), Cuba, 3, 3, 5, 8
22. (+3), Denmark, 3, 3, 3, 8
23. (+3), Croatia, 3, 3, 2, 5
24. (0), Switzerland, 3, 2, 5, 6
25. (+2), Iran, 3, 2, 1, 4
26. (+2), Serbia, 3, 1, 5, 7
27. (+2), Belgium, 3, 1, 3, 7
28. (+2), Bulgaria, 3, 1, 1, 5
28. (+3), Slovenia, 3, 1, 1, 4
30. (+2), Uzbekistan, 3, 0, 2, 5
31. (+3), Chinese Taipei, 2, 4, 6, 10
32. (+3), Turkey, 2, 2, 4, 6
33. (0), Georgia, 2, 2, 1, 3
34. (+2), Greece, 2, 1, 1, 4
35. (+3), Ecuador, 2, 1, 0, 2
36. (+3), Ireland, 2, 0, 2, 2
37. (+4), Qatar, 2, 0, 1, 3
38. (+6), Ukraine, 1, 6, 10, 12
39. (+9), India, 1, 2, 4, 6
40. (+5), Belarus, 1, 2, 3, 4
41. (+9), Slovakia, 1, 2, 1, 4
42. (+4), Romania, 1, 2, 0, 2
42. (+4), Venezuela, 1, 2, 0, 3
42. (+10), South Africa, 1, 2, 0, 2
45. (+8), Austria, 1, 1, 5, 6
46. (+3), Hong Kong, 1, 1, 3, 5
46. (+8), Egypt, 1, 1, 3, 4
48. (+7), Indonesia, 1, 1, 2, 2
48. (+8), Portugal, 1, 1, 2, 3
50. (-31), Kenya, 1, 1, 1, 1
50. (-29), Jamaica, 1, 1, 1, 1
50. (-14), Uganda, 1, 1, 1, 1
50. (0), Philippines, 1, 1, 1, 2
50. (+6), Ethiopia, 1, 1, 1, 1
55. (+3), Tunisia, 1, 1, 0, 2
56. (-17), Israel, 1, 0, 2, 3
57. (+2), Estonia, 1, 0, 1, 1
57. (+2), Fiji, 1, 0, 1, 1
57. (+2), Latvia, 1, 0, 1, 2
57. (+2), Thailand, 1, 0, 1, 2
61. (-19), Bahamas, 1, 0, 0, 1
61. (-19), Kosovo, 1, 0, 0, 1
61. (+2), Bermuda, 1, 0, 0, 1
61. (+2), Morocco, 1, 0, 0, 1
61. (+2), Puerto Rico, 1, 0, 0, 1

I think this better reflects how good the Americans are. And we can take heart from tying China in terms of medalling in different sports.

Seems like utter bollocks to me. Why split athletics like that? Why combine modern pentathlon, triathlon , heptathlon and decathlon? Why split canoe sprint and slalom (and yet keep equestrian dressage with jumping)?

Surely you could split it all up in whatever way to wished to make whatever point you were looking to make?

I thought about equestrian, but I think the involvement of a horse means that it's fair enough to keep it altogether.

I think the athletics deserves to be split up more because the disciplines are very different. The sprinting/running are more different than say the different distances in the swimming, in my opinion.

The two types of canoeing seem completely different to me. Perhaps there's a case for sticking the canoe sprint with the rowing as they are a bit similar.

Good points although think "fighting" should be more grouped - Judo,wrestling and Karate are simalar for instance.Also think diving is more gymnastics than swimming

Diving is separate from swimming and I think it deserves to be its own category.

I know little about the fighting sports and whether they are sufficiently similar to be grouped. My instinct is that they should be separate. As an aside, I think Taekwondo is the best of those types of sports.

Having dressage as a sport is ridiculous.

If you have quasi-racist views as to the relative importance of different species, I suppose it is. If 2 human partnerships are allowed in sailing, why do you object to 1 human/1 horse combos elsewhere?

Nah bollocks.

Dressage is boring as fuck, artificial, and borderline abusive to the animal.

Why not have performing seals or a chimps' tea party.

I have done exactly one competitive dressage test in my life (as part of a 1 day event) and I came 41st out of 42. Bloody proud of that. But as a riding instructor once put it to me, which is the more difficult and useful skill: driving a car at 120 down the motorway, or parking it in a space 6 inches longer than its own length?

I just don't like the artifice. I get the skill over the animal. But it seems pretty unnatural.

Saka clapped by Spurs fans on his return for Arsenal. There is hope for society yet...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58138453

ydoethur said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

HYUFD said:

Candy said:

ydoethur said:

Whatever the reasons for our withdrawal from Afghanistan, it should have been recognised and understood that in doing so the country was being handed back to the Taleban.

According to this tweet:

https://twitter.com/MacaesBruno/status/1424059898753548291

"Why is Biden leaving? "We have to leave so everything is completely forgotten by the midterms""

Biden is a lot more ruthless than Trump. When Trump sacked John Bolton for warmogering, he kept saying "You don't have to kill people. You don't always have to kill people". He had a peaceful four years with very few foreign deaths.

Biden isn't as squeamish. He thinks there will be a lot of carnage but he doesn't care because he thinks Americans will have forgotten it all by midterms.

It won't be forgotten. If Kabul falls it defines his Presidency as that of a weak loser and Americans do not forgive losers in the Oval Office.

He would only be the second US President since WW2 to lose a war after Ford saw Saigon fall on his watch, Ford was not re elected.

Ford at least had the excuse Democrats on Congress cut off funding for the war, Biden has his party in control of Congress now

So you're saying Ford wasn't re-elected because of the fall of Saigon and not his pardon of Nixon and the wider Watergate fallout?

Particularly since Nixon was the one who initiated the policy of Vietnamisation that ultimately failed.

Saigon did not fall on Nixon's watch and Nixon was re elected by a landslide in 1972

ydoethur said:

HYUFD said:

ydoethur said:

HYUFD said:

ydoethur said:

kle4 said:

ydoethur said:

Gordon bloody Bennet.

Where do they dig these imbeciles up?

Afghanistan troop withdrawal a strategic mistake, warns ex-general
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58139590

(No, not that, which is perfectly reasonable. It’s this.)

‘A UK Government spokeswoman said: "We recognise that the security situation in Afghanistan is serious, and reports of the escalating violence are extremely disturbing.

We do not believe there is any military solution to Afghanistan's conflict, and call on the Taliban to end their campaign of violence and engage in meaningful dialogue with the Afghan government.

There needs to be a negotiated solution to ensure a lasting peace."’

How could anyone spout BS like that with a straight face?

Whatever the reasons for our withdrawal from Afghanistan, it should have been recognised and understood that in doing so the country was being handed back to the Taleban.

I'm sure it was recognised and understood, they just won't say it.

I don't know why anyone would work in government PR, it seems soul destroying. As you say, calling on the winning side to stop winning is just idiotic to say.

The problem is not that they can’t say it, it’s that they’ve said something demonstrably untrue.

There is an obvious military solution to Afghanistan’s current situation. A total Taleban victory. Which, to judge from the last 72 hours, is what is about to happen.

The fact that it is a very bad solution indeed for everyone other than the mullahs of the Taleban isn’t a military problem.

I’m in a difficult situation here because I never thought we should have invaded in 2001 anyway. I didn’t see what we could achieve or how we could achieve it.

And unfortunately, after twenty years of fighting that has cost thousands of lives, damaged Afghanistan further, and spread instability into other countries around, we’re back where we started.

Had we not invaded Bin Laden would still be alive and Al Qaeda still a significant presence in the country.

If the Taliban retake full control and invite Al Qaeda back we will have no choice but to invade again or face thousands of western deaths in New York, Paris and London from terror cells trained and launched from Afghanistan

Bin Laden was killed in Pakistan by a commando raid. I don’t see how the war in Afghanistan had a large bearing on that. In fact, by driving him underground and turning the locals against the West it may have delayed his being located. In 2001 the Americans were privately briefing they believed he was dead, which tells me they didn’t know what the hell had happened to him.

Bin Laden only ended up in Pakistan for US special forces to kill him because the invasion forced him out of Afganistan.

Had there been no invasion Bin Laden would still be alive in the Pakistan mountains now leading his training camps of terror to rain fire on the West.

George W Bush may have made a mistake going in to Iraq (albeit it is now a democracy) but on Afghanistan he was right, to go in hard and crush the Taliban and Al Qaeda. Blair to his credit backed him to the hilt.

Obama to be fair to him also followed suit and took the opportunity to kill Bin Laden.

Biden and Harris it seems are weakly withdrawing troops and abanding Afghans to their fate, no matter the cost to them or in future terrorist actions. It is shameful.

Any future terrorist attacks on a western city can be blamed firmly on the Biden administration as can any future Taliban atrocities outside of their heartlands if they take full control.

Mind you Boris should have been tougher too.

Can I just check - you do know that it was Trump who withdrew all of the troops, don’t you? All Biden has done is basically stick to his timetable.

In your second paragraph I assume you mean ‘Afghan.’ In this you are not necessarily correct. The Taleban were willing to hand him over and expel Al-Qaeda from the country before the invasion started, in exchange for a guarantee that the Americans wouldn’t invade.

Would that have been a great solution? No, because the Taleban are ultimately murderous violent pigs who would be considered dangerously violent and creepy by the Aztecs. Would it have been better than what actually happened? Hard to say ‘no,’ isn’t it?

I never mentioned Trump, someone like Romney would be a far better President than both at the moment.

RobD said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Benpointer said:

Just watched the marthon runner bottle man, at real time.

Nothing malicious in it at all IMO. He's clearly tired, focused on the race, and struggling to pick up a bottle.

Bollocks

If you watch it in slow motion, he tries to pretend he's fumbling for a bottle, but he clearly intends to knock them all over, and then - surprise - just manages to grab the last one, very easily. Leaving no others.

At some points he is not even attempting to pick up the bottles, just flapping them out of the way


That said, I don't think he deserves the worldwide crucifixion he is now getting. It was a mean spirited bit of sportsmanship, but not a capital crime

If I watch it in slow motion I will get a completely warped sense of what actually happened.

As someone else said he left the back row of bottles standing. It was clearly an accident caused be a runner under extreme stress in an Olympic marathon ffs!

He wasn't under extreme stress, this was not right at the end. He showed no other signs of physical deterioration, just this

The clincher is that he apparently can't grasp a bottle, but oh, look, once he's knocked over every single one he is easily able to get the very last, without a problem. Neat

He's been credibly accused of doping as well, so he has form on cheating

"During the World Championships, German broadcaster ARD reported another French runner, Morhad Amdouni, the 2018 European 10,000m champion had exchanged WhatsApp messages with a person asking him for payment for an EPO purchase. Amdouni denied the accusations."


Be careful who you defend

"During our investigations, one of the informants received a death threat" from Amdouni's entourage, the channel said."

https://vir.com.vn/european-10000m-champ-amdouni-blasts-doping-allegations-70933.html

But... motive? Nope, I thought not.

Denying others water in a race? I wonder what the motivation could be.

Except he doesn't does he. The guy behind him takes a bottle from the other row.

Benpointer said:

RobD said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Benpointer said:

Just watched the marthon runner bottle man, at real time.

Nothing malicious in it at all IMO. He's clearly tired, focused on the race, and struggling to pick up a bottle.

Bollocks

If you watch it in slow motion, he tries to pretend he's fumbling for a bottle, but he clearly intends to knock them all over, and then - surprise - just manages to grab the last one, very easily. Leaving no others.

At some points he is not even attempting to pick up the bottles, just flapping them out of the way


That said, I don't think he deserves the worldwide crucifixion he is now getting. It was a mean spirited bit of sportsmanship, but not a capital crime

If I watch it in slow motion I will get a completely warped sense of what actually happened.

As someone else said he left the back row of bottles standing. It was clearly an accident caused be a runner under extreme stress in an Olympic marathon ffs!

He wasn't under extreme stress, this was not right at the end. He showed no other signs of physical deterioration, just this

The clincher is that he apparently can't grasp a bottle, but oh, look, once he's knocked over every single one he is easily able to get the very last, without a problem. Neat

He's been credibly accused of doping as well, so he has form on cheating

"During the World Championships, German broadcaster ARD reported another French runner, Morhad Amdouni, the 2018 European 10,000m champion had exchanged WhatsApp messages with a person asking him for payment for an EPO purchase. Amdouni denied the accusations."


Be careful who you defend

"During our investigations, one of the informants received a death threat" from Amdouni's entourage, the channel said."

https://vir.com.vn/european-10000m-champ-amdouni-blasts-doping-allegations-70933.html

But... motive? Nope, I thought not.

Denying others water in a race? I wonder what the motivation could be.

Except he doesn't does he. The guy behind him takes a bottle from the other row.

Attempting to deny*

Not every scheme works flawlessly.

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Benpointer said:

Just watched the marthon runner bottle man, at real time.

Nothing malicious in it at all IMO. He's clearly tired, focused on the race, and struggling to pick up a bottle.

Bollocks

If you watch it in slow motion, he tries to pretend he's fumbling for a bottle, but he clearly intends to knock them all over, and then - surprise - just manages to grab the last one, very easily. Leaving no others.

At some points he is not even attempting to pick up the bottles, just flapping them out of the way


That said, I don't think he deserves the worldwide crucifixion he is now getting. It was a mean spirited bit of sportsmanship, but not a capital crime

If I watch it in slow motion I will get a completely warped sense of what actually happened.

As someone else said he left the back row of bottles standing. It was clearly an accident caused be a runner under extreme stress in an Olympic marathon ffs!

He wasn't under extreme stress, this was not right at the end. He showed no other signs of physical deterioration, just this

The clincher is that he apparently can't grasp a bottle, but oh, look, once he's knocked over every single one he is easily able to get the very last, without a problem. Neat

He's been credibly accused of doping as well, so he has form on cheating

"During the World Championships, German broadcaster ARD reported another French runner, Morhad Amdouni, the 2018 European 10,000m champion had exchanged WhatsApp messages with a person asking him for payment for an EPO purchase. Amdouni denied the accusations."


Be careful who you defend

"During our investigations, one of the informants received a death threat" from Amdouni's entourage, the channel said."

https://vir.com.vn/european-10000m-champ-amdouni-blasts-doping-allegations-70933.html

But... motive? Nope, I thought not.

He's a nasty piece of work, it seems. He's been accused of cheating multiple times. His entourage makes death threats against journalists.

But of course he would never spill some bottles to get a tiny advantage in a marathon!

Jeez

Helen Miller
@MsHelicat
·
6m
Monday's MAIL: Minister: Cut pay of civil servants who work at home #tomorrowspaperstoday




That's the First Division out on strike then...

NEW: Sunak ally says Boris Johnson will be signing his political “death warrant” if he demotes the Chancellor.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/08/08/demoting-rishi-sunak-would-boris-johnsons-political-death-warrant/

rottenborough said:

Helen Miller
@MsHelicat
·
6m
Monday's MAIL: Minister: Cut pay of civil servants who work at home #tomorrowspaperstoday




That's the First Division out on strike then...

Can we cut the pay of that anonymous minister instead? By 100% preferably

RobD said:

Benpointer said:

RobD said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Benpointer said:

Just watched the marthon runner bottle man, at real time.

Nothing malicious in it at all IMO. He's clearly tired, focused on the race, and struggling to pick up a bottle.

Bollocks

If you watch it in slow motion, he tries to pretend he's fumbling for a bottle, but he clearly intends to knock them all over, and then - surprise - just manages to grab the last one, very easily. Leaving no others.

At some points he is not even attempting to pick up the bottles, just flapping them out of the way


That said, I don't think he deserves the worldwide crucifixion he is now getting. It was a mean spirited bit of sportsmanship, but not a capital crime

If I watch it in slow motion I will get a completely warped sense of what actually happened.

As someone else said he left the back row of bottles standing. It was clearly an accident caused be a runner under extreme stress in an Olympic marathon ffs!

He wasn't under extreme stress, this was not right at the end. He showed no other signs of physical deterioration, just this

The clincher is that he apparently can't grasp a bottle, but oh, look, once he's knocked over every single one he is easily able to get the very last, without a problem. Neat

He's been credibly accused of doping as well, so he has form on cheating

"During the World Championships, German broadcaster ARD reported another French runner, Morhad Amdouni, the 2018 European 10,000m champion had exchanged WhatsApp messages with a person asking him for payment for an EPO purchase. Amdouni denied the accusations."


Be careful who you defend

"During our investigations, one of the informants received a death threat" from Amdouni's entourage, the channel said."

https://vir.com.vn/european-10000m-champ-amdouni-blasts-doping-allegations-70933.html

But... motive? Nope, I thought not.

Denying others water in a race? I wonder what the motivation could be.

Except he doesn't does he. The guy behind him takes a bottle from the other row.

Attempting to deny*

Not every scheme works flawlessly.

Also in a marathon a tiny advantage like that can make a big difference. They are all world class athletes at the limit of endurance. You slow down (still running fast) to grab some much needed water (in intense heat). You reach for the front line of bottles, but suddenly they are all gone, so you are bewildered and you carry on running, without water. And you have to replan. Get a drink later on? When?

It's like a pit stop in Formula 1.

The guy behind Amdouni seems to reach for a bottle, see that there are suddenly none, then carries on running - waterless

It's a very marginal effect but tiny margins can mean medals - or not

Thankfully this cheating French guy came 17th so Pffff

rottenborough said:

Helen Miller
@MsHelicat
·
6m
Monday's MAIL: Minister: Cut pay of civil servants who work at home #tomorrowspaperstoday

That's the First Division out on strike then...

Which minister? No name on that front page as far as I can see.

Leon said:

RobD said:

Benpointer said:

RobD said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Benpointer said:

Just watched the marthon runner bottle man, at real time.

Nothing malicious in it at all IMO. He's clearly tired, focused on the race, and struggling to pick up a bottle.

Bollocks

If you watch it in slow motion, he tries to pretend he's fumbling for a bottle, but he clearly intends to knock them all over, and then - surprise - just manages to grab the last one, very easily. Leaving no others.

At some points he is not even attempting to pick up the bottles, just flapping them out of the way


That said, I don't think he deserves the worldwide crucifixion he is now getting. It was a mean spirited bit of sportsmanship, but not a capital crime

If I watch it in slow motion I will get a completely warped sense of what actually happened.

As someone else said he left the back row of bottles standing. It was clearly an accident caused be a runner under extreme stress in an Olympic marathon ffs!

He wasn't under extreme stress, this was not right at the end. He showed no other signs of physical deterioration, just this

The clincher is that he apparently can't grasp a bottle, but oh, look, once he's knocked over every single one he is easily able to get the very last, without a problem. Neat

He's been credibly accused of doping as well, so he has form on cheating

"During the World Championships, German broadcaster ARD reported another French runner, Morhad Amdouni, the 2018 European 10,000m champion had exchanged WhatsApp messages with a person asking him for payment for an EPO purchase. Amdouni denied the accusations."


Be careful who you defend

"During our investigations, one of the informants received a death threat" from Amdouni's entourage, the channel said."

https://vir.com.vn/european-10000m-champ-amdouni-blasts-doping-allegations-70933.html

But... motive? Nope, I thought not.

Denying others water in a race? I wonder what the motivation could be.

Except he doesn't does he. The guy behind him takes a bottle from the other row.

Attempting to deny*

Not every scheme works flawlessly.

Also in a marathon a tiny advantage like that can make a big difference. They are all world class athletes at the limit of endurance. You slow down (still running fast) to grab some much needed water (in intense heat). You reach for the front line of bottles, but suddenly they are all gone, so you are bewildered and you carry on running, without water. And you have to replan. Get a drink later on? When?

It's like a pit stop in Formula 1.

The guy behind Amdouni seems to reach for a bottle, see that there are suddenly none, then carries on running - waterless

It's a very marginal effect but tiny margins can mean medals - or not

Thankfully this cheating French guy came 17th so Pffff

Also Paula Radcliffe said on commentary hydrating early on is vitally important...by the time you start to feel you need it late in the race its too late if you haven't already got enough hydration in early.

The elite athletes now all have careful plans of what to drink at each stage, the Kenyan guy who won has been running with sophisticated sensors in the run up to this to ensure they know how to best plan all of this based on recorded body metrics.

The Olympics isn't some park run where you crowd around to grab a drink when you fancy it. Its carefully practiced procedure, with a dedicated individual plan.

Benpointer said:

Combining the two topics du jour: what about an UK supported Edinburgh* bid to host the Olympics in 2036?

(*or Glasgow, though I think Edinburgh carries more international clout.)

The Olympics and the Festival at the same time would probably cause Edinburgh to explode.

Leon said:

BUT this has to be the future. Companies (and governments) cannot pay full whack for workers who are suddenly saving £1000s on commuting and, by the by, not paying London prices (so goodbye London weighting)

These adjustments are inevitable. Any company that continued to pay full London wages to someone only doing 1 or 2 days in London would go bust quick. Governments will follow

BUT the Civil Service were already moving jobs out of London.

Working from home solves that problem at a stroke

Scott_xP said:

Leon said:

BUT this has to be the future. Companies (and governments) cannot pay full whack for workers who are suddenly saving £1000s on commuting and, by the by, not paying London prices (so goodbye London weighting)

These adjustments are inevitable. Any company that continued to pay full London wages to someone only doing 1 or 2 days in London would go bust quick. Governments will follow

BUT the Civil Service were already moving jobs out of London.

Working from home solves that problem at a stroke

Yes, but pay them less, obvs

tlg86 said:

StuartDickson said:

Which Scottish athletes won medals at Tokyo 2020? How many medals did Scotland win in total?

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/other-sport/which-scottish-athletes-won-medals-at-tokyo-2020-how-many-medals-did-scotland-win-in-total-3338251

Of Britain’s overall total of 65 medals, 16 were won by Scottish athletes.

It's worth giving the more honest statistic: 11 of the 112 athletes who contributed to Britain's 65 medals were Scottish.

Is that more honest? Just seems like a different measure.

Theuniondivvie said:

Toast surely?

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1424468459258318852?s=21

But done on one side or two?

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

moonshine said:

rottenborough said:

Helen Miller
@MsHelicat
·
6m
Monday's MAIL: Minister: Cut pay of civil servants who work at home #tomorrowspaperstoday




That's the First Division out on strike then...

Can we cut the pay of that anonymous minister instead? By 100% preferably

BUT this has to be the future. Companies (and governments) cannot pay full whack for workers who are suddenly saving £1000s on commuting and, by the by, not paying London prices (so goodbye London weighting)

These adjustments are inevitable. Any company that continued to pay full London wages to someone only doing 1 or 2 days in London would go bust quick. Governments will follow

I don't get your logic. If said employee was as productive working from home why would the company go bust?

I my experience wfh can be more productive, both personally and for the teams I have managed. Most people will work longer hours and still have more leisure time *because* they are not having to commute.

Managing shirkers is a different issue but needs to be done on output not presenteeism - seeing someone sat at their desk does not mean they are being productive.

Now, I get that companies might seek an opportunity to cut costs but I doubt any emplyoment contracts are going to allow for that.

Cost cutting happens all the time. You make it sound like employment contracts have so far prevented any form of cost cutting.

kle4 said:

tlg86 said:

StuartDickson said:

Which Scottish athletes won medals at Tokyo 2020? How many medals did Scotland win in total?

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/other-sport/which-scottish-athletes-won-medals-at-tokyo-2020-how-many-medals-did-scotland-win-in-total-3338251

Of Britain’s overall total of 65 medals, 16 were won by Scottish athletes.

It's worth giving the more honest statistic: 11 of the 112 athletes who contributed to Britain's 65 medals were Scottish.

Is that more honest? Just seems like a different measure.

The original stat implies that around a quarter of our medals were won by Scottish athletes. That's misleading in my opinion.

FWIW, I think Scottish athletes did very well. I wonder if Duncan Scott (1 gold and 3 silvers) will be nominated for SPoTY?

Hooray, old rocker not antivax nutter, the world is healing.

https://twitter.com/peterframpton/status/1424406390488055810?s=21

Leon said:

moonshine said:

rottenborough said:

Helen Miller
@MsHelicat
·
6m
Monday's MAIL: Minister: Cut pay of civil servants who work at home #tomorrowspaperstoday




That's the First Division out on strike then...

Can we cut the pay of that anonymous minister instead? By 100% preferably

BUT this has to be the future. Companies (and governments) cannot pay full whack for workers who are suddenly saving £1000s on commuting and, by the by, not paying London prices (so goodbye London weighting)

These adjustments are inevitable. Any company that continued to pay full London wages to someone only doing 1 or 2 days in London would go bust quick. Governments will follow

Depends. People will need to pay for office furniture and the house space to put it in if working from home long term, and employers will be saving a ton of money on not providing office space - the employees may want to get a share of that money being saved.