My last bet was stupid – Win or lose – politicalbetting.com
Comments
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Its nostalgia. It helped you but life has changed. Kids nowadays often grow up in families where no-one cooks, others in families with dysfunctional family dynamics, and even the well educated professional class don't understand how to manage their money and investments.DavidL said:
I did Latin at school. It taught me grammar, some interesting history, some superb culture (the Aeneid is just brilliant), improved my memory skills and helped develop analytical skills. It also helped with law a little bit.noneoftheabove said:List of things people turning 18 should have learnt more about:
Health & Exercise, Cooking & Nutrition, Relationships, Money, Mind & Body, "How to use tech to enhance life as opposed to let it become life" (Can't think of a word for this at the moment but it is important in an age where tech companies increasingly exploit and control us).
Anyone coming up with Latin is doing this for nostalgia only, fortunately it will fail as will resonate only with Tory public school oldies, and be laughed out by the crucial Tory red wall oldies.
I am not saying that there are not more useful subjects but there have been studies in the US where it was found that those who studied Latin did better in other subjects although I always wondered about the correlative effects there.
The question of where to find the Latin teachers is definitely pertinent. When I left school over 40 years ago all of my classics teachers were older than I am now.
Let's tackle the real challenges kids face, not try to re create the past.2 -
Not even wrong, just my opinion and of course I agreed with the thrust of your opinion..ydoethur said:
Nice to know it was reasonable, even if it was wrong.kjh said:
My comment wasn't aimed at you @ydoethur but our friend Gavin. Thought your post reasonable.ydoethur said:
I’d have stopped there, tbh.kjh said:
As a mathematician I fail to see how Latin or any language helps one iota. The fact that a notation is derived from another language eg iota, is completely irrelevant. If a minister thinks this they clearly have no understanding whatsoeverydoethur said:
Gavin Williamson has evidence? I thought he just made shit up as he went along.DecrepiterJohnL said:
I've no idea because without seeing Gavin Williamson's evidence, it is hard to know. However, since it is also claimed that classics help with other subjects like maths, biology and computing, there must be more to it than its closeness to French or German.RobD said:
Is Welsh similar enough to other languages to be useful in that way?DecrepiterJohnL said:
That is the claim but evidence is patchy. If learning an additional language, like, say, Welsh, helps other languages, mathematics, or whatever, then why aren't pupils in, say, Wales, racing ahead?MattW said:
He's probably right. It has huge underlying benefits for background knowledge / skills.DecrepiterJohnL said:Gavin Williamson thinks teaching Latin will improve maths and modern foreign language learning (and by coincidence, Boris is a keen classicist so that would be a reason to keep Williamson on).
Latin will be taught in state schools to end its ‘elitist’ status
Officials believe subject will help pupils learn modern foreign languages and could bring improvements in English and maths
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/30/latin-will-taught-state-schools-end-elitist-status/ (£££)
I can see how Latin might help with Science given how many scientific names derive from Latin and give an idea of their purpose as a result. But I would have thought if any classical language was useful for maths and by extension ICT it would be Greek, not Latin.
My knowledge of maths extends to trolling the maths teachers at my school by putting up 2+2=5 on the whiteboards before maths lessons. I couldn’t personally see a link but I thought there might be one for Greek. If I’m wrong, I’m wrong.
PS I can make that 2+ 2 = 5 work for you with a bit of thought.
My 2+2=5 is as follows:
2.49+2.49=4.98
Round all of them to the nearest whole number.
Amuses the children no end.
If there’s a proper way of doing it I’d be interested to hear it.
Like your sum.
I would have to think about getting that exact sum but if you change the base you might be able to do it. The fact we use 10 as a base is just chance. Base 2, 8 and 16 are used commonly. I am aware of an ancient number system that used base 60 (mind boggling).
Obviously in base 2 : 1 + 1 = 10 Can do loads of stuff like that.
I can also show 1 = 2 by making an error, but which is very difficult to spot. I posted it here before and will do so again when on a laptop and not my phone.1 -
The benefit of Latin in the romantic languages is clear. It is also helpful with English grammar (I think). Maths, etc benefit because it teaches a very logical way of thinking.kjh said:
As a mathematician I fail to see how Latin or any language helps one iota. The fact that a notation is derived from another language eg iota, is completely irrelevant. If a minister thinks this they clearly have no understanding whatsoever of what is involved in doing mathsydoethur said:
Gavin Williamson has evidence? I thought he just made shit up as he went along.DecrepiterJohnL said:
I've no idea because without seeing Gavin Williamson's evidence, it is hard to know. However, since it is also claimed that classics help with other subjects like maths, biology and computing, there must be more to it than its closeness to French or German.RobD said:
Is Welsh similar enough to other languages to be useful in that way?DecrepiterJohnL said:
That is the claim but evidence is patchy. If learning an additional language, like, say, Welsh, helps other languages, mathematics, or whatever, then why aren't pupils in, say, Wales, racing ahead?MattW said:
He's probably right. It has huge underlying benefits for background knowledge / skills.DecrepiterJohnL said:Gavin Williamson thinks teaching Latin will improve maths and modern foreign language learning (and by coincidence, Boris is a keen classicist so that would be a reason to keep Williamson on).
Latin will be taught in state schools to end its ‘elitist’ status
Officials believe subject will help pupils learn modern foreign languages and could bring improvements in English and maths
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/30/latin-will-taught-state-schools-end-elitist-status/ (£££)
I can see how Latin might help with Science given how many scientific names derive from Latin and give an idea of their purpose as a result. But I would have thought if any classical language was useful for maths and by extension ICT it would be Greek, not Latin.
But something teaching people just to expand their mind is a good thing
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Is it the job of education to teach you how to live or to make you employable? Do you have any evidence that teachers have any real skills in the former that they can usefully pass on? I am not sure loading up an already overcrowded school curriculum with life skills classes is desirable or even possible. Of course the same applies to Latin.noneoftheabove said:
Its nostalgia. It helped you but life has changed. Kids nowadays often grow up in families where no-one cooks, others in families with dysfunctional family dynamics, and even the well educated professional class don't understand how to manage their money and investments.DavidL said:
I did Latin at school. It taught me grammar, some interesting history, some superb culture (the Aeneid is just brilliant), improved my memory skills and helped develop analytical skills. It also helped with law a little bit.noneoftheabove said:List of things people turning 18 should have learnt more about:
Health & Exercise, Cooking & Nutrition, Relationships, Money, Mind & Body, "How to use tech to enhance life as opposed to let it become life" (Can't think of a word for this at the moment but it is important in an age where tech companies increasingly exploit and control us).
Anyone coming up with Latin is doing this for nostalgia only, fortunately it will fail as will resonate only with Tory public school oldies, and be laughed out by the crucial Tory red wall oldies.
I am not saying that there are not more useful subjects but there have been studies in the US where it was found that those who studied Latin did better in other subjects although I always wondered about the correlative effects there.
The question of where to find the Latin teachers is definitely pertinent. When I left school over 40 years ago all of my classics teachers were older than I am now.
Let's tackle the real challenges kids face, not try to re create the past.
It seems to me that you want to dump the social problems of modern life on schools. I think they should stick to the day job. If kids come out of school with the skills that allow them to progress to further study where they have that ability, a good grounding in basic maths, the ability to read and write in a coherent way and with some smattering of languages, history or science according to taste I think that they have done their job.1 -
Hate to break it to you, but in the state sector that ship sailed 40 years ago.DavidL said:
Is it the job of education to teach you how to live or to make you employable? Do you have any evidence that teachers have any real skills in the former that they can usefully pass on? I am not sure loading up an already overcrowded school curriculum with life skills classes is desirable or even possible. Of course the same applies to Latin.noneoftheabove said:
Its nostalgia. It helped you but life has changed. Kids nowadays often grow up in families where no-one cooks, others in families with dysfunctional family dynamics, and even the well educated professional class don't understand how to manage their money and investments.DavidL said:
I did Latin at school. It taught me grammar, some interesting history, some superb culture (the Aeneid is just brilliant), improved my memory skills and helped develop analytical skills. It also helped with law a little bit.noneoftheabove said:List of things people turning 18 should have learnt more about:
Health & Exercise, Cooking & Nutrition, Relationships, Money, Mind & Body, "How to use tech to enhance life as opposed to let it become life" (Can't think of a word for this at the moment but it is important in an age where tech companies increasingly exploit and control us).
Anyone coming up with Latin is doing this for nostalgia only, fortunately it will fail as will resonate only with Tory public school oldies, and be laughed out by the crucial Tory red wall oldies.
I am not saying that there are not more useful subjects but there have been studies in the US where it was found that those who studied Latin did better in other subjects although I always wondered about the correlative effects there.
The question of where to find the Latin teachers is definitely pertinent. When I left school over 40 years ago all of my classics teachers were older than I am now.
Let's tackle the real challenges kids face, not try to re create the past.
It seems to me that you want to dump the social problems of modern life on schools. I think they should stick to the day job. If kids come out of school with the skills that allow them to progress to further study where they have that ability, a good grounding in basic maths, the ability to read and write in a coherent way and with some smattering of languages, history or science according to taste I think that they have done their job.0 -
Except you are making an error by prematurely rounding the constituent parts?ydoethur said:
Nice to know it was reasonable, even if it was wrong.kjh said:
My comment wasn't aimed at you @ydoethur but our friend Gavin. Thought your post reasonable.ydoethur said:
I’d have stopped there, tbh.kjh said:
As a mathematician I fail to see how Latin or any language helps one iota. The fact that a notation is derived from another language eg iota, is completely irrelevant. If a minister thinks this they clearly have no understanding whatsoeverydoethur said:
Gavin Williamson has evidence? I thought he just made shit up as he went along.DecrepiterJohnL said:
I've no idea because without seeing Gavin Williamson's evidence, it is hard to know. However, since it is also claimed that classics help with other subjects like maths, biology and computing, there must be more to it than its closeness to French or German.RobD said:
Is Welsh similar enough to other languages to be useful in that way?DecrepiterJohnL said:
That is the claim but evidence is patchy. If learning an additional language, like, say, Welsh, helps other languages, mathematics, or whatever, then why aren't pupils in, say, Wales, racing ahead?MattW said:
He's probably right. It has huge underlying benefits for background knowledge / skills.DecrepiterJohnL said:Gavin Williamson thinks teaching Latin will improve maths and modern foreign language learning (and by coincidence, Boris is a keen classicist so that would be a reason to keep Williamson on).
Latin will be taught in state schools to end its ‘elitist’ status
Officials believe subject will help pupils learn modern foreign languages and could bring improvements in English and maths
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/30/latin-will-taught-state-schools-end-elitist-status/ (£££)
I can see how Latin might help with Science given how many scientific names derive from Latin and give an idea of their purpose as a result. But I would have thought if any classical language was useful for maths and by extension ICT it would be Greek, not Latin.
My knowledge of maths extends to trolling the maths teachers at my school by putting up 2+2=5 on the whiteboards before maths lessons. I couldn’t personally see a link but I thought there might be one for Greek. If I’m wrong, I’m wrong.
PS I can make that 2+ 2 = 5 work for you with a bit of thought.
My 2+2=5 is as follows:
2.49+2.49=4.98
Round all of them to the nearest whole number.
Amuses the children no end.
If there’s a proper way of doing it I’d be interested to hear it.
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Depends what I’m trying to achieve.Charles said:
Except you are making an error by prematurely rounding the constituent parts?ydoethur said:
Nice to know it was reasonable, even if it was wrong.kjh said:
My comment wasn't aimed at you @ydoethur but our friend Gavin. Thought your post reasonable.ydoethur said:
I’d have stopped there, tbh.kjh said:
As a mathematician I fail to see how Latin or any language helps one iota. The fact that a notation is derived from another language eg iota, is completely irrelevant. If a minister thinks this they clearly have no understanding whatsoeverydoethur said:
Gavin Williamson has evidence? I thought he just made shit up as he went along.DecrepiterJohnL said:
I've no idea because without seeing Gavin Williamson's evidence, it is hard to know. However, since it is also claimed that classics help with other subjects like maths, biology and computing, there must be more to it than its closeness to French or German.RobD said:
Is Welsh similar enough to other languages to be useful in that way?DecrepiterJohnL said:
That is the claim but evidence is patchy. If learning an additional language, like, say, Welsh, helps other languages, mathematics, or whatever, then why aren't pupils in, say, Wales, racing ahead?MattW said:
He's probably right. It has huge underlying benefits for background knowledge / skills.DecrepiterJohnL said:Gavin Williamson thinks teaching Latin will improve maths and modern foreign language learning (and by coincidence, Boris is a keen classicist so that would be a reason to keep Williamson on).
Latin will be taught in state schools to end its ‘elitist’ status
Officials believe subject will help pupils learn modern foreign languages and could bring improvements in English and maths
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/30/latin-will-taught-state-schools-end-elitist-status/ (£££)
I can see how Latin might help with Science given how many scientific names derive from Latin and give an idea of their purpose as a result. But I would have thought if any classical language was useful for maths and by extension ICT it would be Greek, not Latin.
My knowledge of maths extends to trolling the maths teachers at my school by putting up 2+2=5 on the whiteboards before maths lessons. I couldn’t personally see a link but I thought there might be one for Greek. If I’m wrong, I’m wrong.
PS I can make that 2+ 2 = 5 work for you with a bit of thought.
My 2+2=5 is as follows:
2.49+2.49=4.98
Round all of them to the nearest whole number.
Amuses the children no end.
If there’s a proper way of doing it I’d be interested to hear it.5 -
Absolutely schools should, and already do, teach people how to live. It is done alongside parents and the wider community but schools are an essential part of it.DavidL said:
Is it the job of education to teach you how to live or to make you employable? Do you have any evidence that teachers have any real skills in the former that they can usefully pass on? I am not sure loading up an already overcrowded school curriculum with life skills classes is desirable or even possible. Of course the same applies to Latin.noneoftheabove said:
Its nostalgia. It helped you but life has changed. Kids nowadays often grow up in families where no-one cooks, others in families with dysfunctional family dynamics, and even the well educated professional class don't understand how to manage their money and investments.DavidL said:
I did Latin at school. It taught me grammar, some interesting history, some superb culture (the Aeneid is just brilliant), improved my memory skills and helped develop analytical skills. It also helped with law a little bit.noneoftheabove said:List of things people turning 18 should have learnt more about:
Health & Exercise, Cooking & Nutrition, Relationships, Money, Mind & Body, "How to use tech to enhance life as opposed to let it become life" (Can't think of a word for this at the moment but it is important in an age where tech companies increasingly exploit and control us).
Anyone coming up with Latin is doing this for nostalgia only, fortunately it will fail as will resonate only with Tory public school oldies, and be laughed out by the crucial Tory red wall oldies.
I am not saying that there are not more useful subjects but there have been studies in the US where it was found that those who studied Latin did better in other subjects although I always wondered about the correlative effects there.
The question of where to find the Latin teachers is definitely pertinent. When I left school over 40 years ago all of my classics teachers were older than I am now.
Let's tackle the real challenges kids face, not try to re create the past.
It seems to me that you want to dump the social problems of modern life on schools. I think they should stick to the day job. If kids come out of school with the skills that allow them to progress to further study where they have that ability, a good grounding in basic maths, the ability to read and write in a coherent way and with some smattering of languages, history or science according to taste I think that they have done their job.0 -
Oh I know, but as I didn't study geography beyond second year I still believe if that ship goes too far it will fall off the edge!ydoethur said:
Hate to break it to you, but in the state sector that ship sailed 40 years ago.DavidL said:
Is it the job of education to teach you how to live or to make you employable? Do you have any evidence that teachers have any real skills in the former that they can usefully pass on? I am not sure loading up an already overcrowded school curriculum with life skills classes is desirable or even possible. Of course the same applies to Latin.noneoftheabove said:
Its nostalgia. It helped you but life has changed. Kids nowadays often grow up in families where no-one cooks, others in families with dysfunctional family dynamics, and even the well educated professional class don't understand how to manage their money and investments.DavidL said:
I did Latin at school. It taught me grammar, some interesting history, some superb culture (the Aeneid is just brilliant), improved my memory skills and helped develop analytical skills. It also helped with law a little bit.noneoftheabove said:List of things people turning 18 should have learnt more about:
Health & Exercise, Cooking & Nutrition, Relationships, Money, Mind & Body, "How to use tech to enhance life as opposed to let it become life" (Can't think of a word for this at the moment but it is important in an age where tech companies increasingly exploit and control us).
Anyone coming up with Latin is doing this for nostalgia only, fortunately it will fail as will resonate only with Tory public school oldies, and be laughed out by the crucial Tory red wall oldies.
I am not saying that there are not more useful subjects but there have been studies in the US where it was found that those who studied Latin did better in other subjects although I always wondered about the correlative effects there.
The question of where to find the Latin teachers is definitely pertinent. When I left school over 40 years ago all of my classics teachers were older than I am now.
Let's tackle the real challenges kids face, not try to re create the past.
It seems to me that you want to dump the social problems of modern life on schools. I think they should stick to the day job. If kids come out of school with the skills that allow them to progress to further study where they have that ability, a good grounding in basic maths, the ability to read and write in a coherent way and with some smattering of languages, history or science according to taste I think that they have done their job.1 -
Greek is just too fucking difficult. I can't make head or tail of it, and I started learning it at 8 and am meant to have a doctorate in it. Plus your best chance of understanding it is to have a really good grounding in Latin.ydoethur said:
Gavin Williamson has evidence? I thought he just made shit up as he went along.DecrepiterJohnL said:
I've no idea because without seeing Gavin Williamson's evidence, it is hard to know. However, since it is also claimed that classics help with other subjects like maths, biology and computing, there must be more to it than its closeness to French or German.RobD said:
Is Welsh similar enough to other languages to be useful in that way?DecrepiterJohnL said:
That is the claim but evidence is patchy. If learning an additional language, like, say, Welsh, helps other languages, mathematics, or whatever, then why aren't pupils in, say, Wales, racing ahead?MattW said:
He's probably right. It has huge underlying benefits for background knowledge / skills.DecrepiterJohnL said:Gavin Williamson thinks teaching Latin will improve maths and modern foreign language learning (and by coincidence, Boris is a keen classicist so that would be a reason to keep Williamson on).
Latin will be taught in state schools to end its ‘elitist’ status
Officials believe subject will help pupils learn modern foreign languages and could bring improvements in English and maths
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/30/latin-will-taught-state-schools-end-elitist-status/ (£££)
I can see how Latin might help with Science given how many scientific names derive from Latin and give an idea of their purpose as a result. But I would have thought if any classical language was useful for maths and by extension ICT it would be Greek, not Latin.
What's embarrassing is this: the only language I have studied which is more difficult is Swahili. Everybody in East Africa speaks it perfectly, nobody I have ever met speaks it as a first language, they all speak perfect English as well and they went to schools whose entire budget was probably less that the average UK schools budget per pupil.3 -
Flat Earth? That’s a phenomenon of nineteenth century theology. Not geography.DavidL said:
Oh I know, but as I didn't study geography beyond second year I still believe if that ship goes too far it will fall off the edge!ydoethur said:
Hate to break it to you, but in the state sector that ship sailed 40 years ago.DavidL said:
Is it the job of education to teach you how to live or to make you employable? Do you have any evidence that teachers have any real skills in the former that they can usefully pass on? I am not sure loading up an already overcrowded school curriculum with life skills classes is desirable or even possible. Of course the same applies to Latin.noneoftheabove said:
Its nostalgia. It helped you but life has changed. Kids nowadays often grow up in families where no-one cooks, others in families with dysfunctional family dynamics, and even the well educated professional class don't understand how to manage their money and investments.DavidL said:
I did Latin at school. It taught me grammar, some interesting history, some superb culture (the Aeneid is just brilliant), improved my memory skills and helped develop analytical skills. It also helped with law a little bit.noneoftheabove said:List of things people turning 18 should have learnt more about:
Health & Exercise, Cooking & Nutrition, Relationships, Money, Mind & Body, "How to use tech to enhance life as opposed to let it become life" (Can't think of a word for this at the moment but it is important in an age where tech companies increasingly exploit and control us).
Anyone coming up with Latin is doing this for nostalgia only, fortunately it will fail as will resonate only with Tory public school oldies, and be laughed out by the crucial Tory red wall oldies.
I am not saying that there are not more useful subjects but there have been studies in the US where it was found that those who studied Latin did better in other subjects although I always wondered about the correlative effects there.
The question of where to find the Latin teachers is definitely pertinent. When I left school over 40 years ago all of my classics teachers were older than I am now.
Let's tackle the real challenges kids face, not try to re create the past.
It seems to me that you want to dump the social problems of modern life on schools. I think they should stick to the day job. If kids come out of school with the skills that allow them to progress to further study where they have that ability, a good grounding in basic maths, the ability to read and write in a coherent way and with some smattering of languages, history or science according to taste I think that they have done their job.0 -
I'm all for teaching kids in state schools Latin and Greek.
I learned both at school and it was great.
My advice is to the teachers is to get them hooked straight away, and start with Catullus 16.
Heck I might make a career change and become a Latin teacher.
Semper ubi, sub ubi.1 -
Terry Pratchett famously described geography as physics with a few trees stuck in it but I am pretty sure that the fact that the world is round would have come up at some point. My vague memory is that it helped me map read. Not much else.ydoethur said:
Flat Earth? That’s a phenomenon of nineteenth century theology. Not geography.DavidL said:
Oh I know, but as I didn't study geography beyond second year I still believe if that ship goes too far it will fall off the edge!ydoethur said:
Hate to break it to you, but in the state sector that ship sailed 40 years ago.DavidL said:
Is it the job of education to teach you how to live or to make you employable? Do you have any evidence that teachers have any real skills in the former that they can usefully pass on? I am not sure loading up an already overcrowded school curriculum with life skills classes is desirable or even possible. Of course the same applies to Latin.noneoftheabove said:
Its nostalgia. It helped you but life has changed. Kids nowadays often grow up in families where no-one cooks, others in families with dysfunctional family dynamics, and even the well educated professional class don't understand how to manage their money and investments.DavidL said:
I did Latin at school. It taught me grammar, some interesting history, some superb culture (the Aeneid is just brilliant), improved my memory skills and helped develop analytical skills. It also helped with law a little bit.noneoftheabove said:List of things people turning 18 should have learnt more about:
Health & Exercise, Cooking & Nutrition, Relationships, Money, Mind & Body, "How to use tech to enhance life as opposed to let it become life" (Can't think of a word for this at the moment but it is important in an age where tech companies increasingly exploit and control us).
Anyone coming up with Latin is doing this for nostalgia only, fortunately it will fail as will resonate only with Tory public school oldies, and be laughed out by the crucial Tory red wall oldies.
I am not saying that there are not more useful subjects but there have been studies in the US where it was found that those who studied Latin did better in other subjects although I always wondered about the correlative effects there.
The question of where to find the Latin teachers is definitely pertinent. When I left school over 40 years ago all of my classics teachers were older than I am now.
Let's tackle the real challenges kids face, not try to re create the past.
It seems to me that you want to dump the social problems of modern life on schools. I think they should stick to the day job. If kids come out of school with the skills that allow them to progress to further study where they have that ability, a good grounding in basic maths, the ability to read and write in a coherent way and with some smattering of languages, history or science according to taste I think that they have done their job.0 -
Memo to Gavin Williamson, can you please spend extra money to teach kids how to use apostrophes (correctly).0
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Off-topic:
Just completed this morning's run and I've managed to run 302 miles in July - by far my highest mileage of any month ever.
I have done at least one run every day of this year so far, and am at 1,538 miles for the year so far.
I'm feeling quite pleased about that. And I'm also feeling utterly knackered ...4 -
Mr. Eagles, you're being naughty and you know it.0
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This is quite a concept.
Excellent article with England's world cup winning coach.
‘I wanted us to lift Peter Crouch up at a corner like a second row in rugby’ – Clive Woodward at Southampton
https://theathletic.com/2725048/2021/07/31/i-wanted-us-to-lift-peter-crouch-up-at-a-corner-like-a-second-row-in-rugby-clive-woodward-at-southampton/1 -
No, honestly reading Catullus 16 will get teenagers hooked on Latin.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, you're being naughty and you know it.
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That would be good.TheScreamingEagles said:Memo to Gavin Williamson, can you please spend extra money to teach kids how to use apostrophes (correctly).
But if he really wants to improve education, the most cost effective way of doing so would be to give himself, Gibb, Spielman, and every official of the DfE, Ofsted and OFQUAL a one-way ticket to Alpha Centauri.0 -
Mr. Eagles, it'll make the rest of his stuff mostly seem boring, though.0
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Nah, as a scholar of both history and Latin I know what I speak of.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, it'll make the rest of his stuff mostly seem boring, though.
I guess as a fluent speaker of seven languages I like showing off my skills.
(Although I sound like Officer Crabtree these days when I try and speak French.)0 -
I do think that if we had been taught to decline irrumare rather than amare it may have got our attention somewhat.TheScreamingEagles said:
No, honestly reading Catullus 16 will get teenagers hooked on Latin.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, you're being naughty and you know it.
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Exactly.DavidL said:
I do think that if we had been taught to decline irrumare rather than amare it may have got our attention somewhat.TheScreamingEagles said:
No, honestly reading Catullus 16 will get teenagers hooked on Latin.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, you're being naughty and you know it.
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Each to their own, Max.MaxPB said:Report from London's night life.
It's back. It's almost as if the last 18 months never happened. Genuinely think that nothing can break us. London will always prevail where other places won't.
It's legitimately everything I remember from two years ago with the same sad haters who believe no one ever really wants to leave their house after 9pm. I think there's a pretty big correlation between those saddos and the people who think permanent remote working is how we'll all live forever.
Some of us introverts are quite happy with it.
As an aside, why are there no decent breakfast places open in parts of London before 9am ?
That is sad.1 -
Mr. B, aye. Working from home doesn't work for everyone, though, but it can be better for many than office working. A mixed approach may be the way forward.0
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It is hugely similar to Spanish - which helped me to learn it quite well even with my rather slow and aged brain. Despite only learning Latin up to O level some 54 years ago!RobD said:
It's similar to the romance languages. I'm not sure if it's similar to Welsh.DecrepiterJohnL said:
I've no idea because without seeing Gavin Williamson's evidence, it is hard to know. However, since it is also claimed that classics help with other subjects like maths, biology and computing, there must be more to it than its closeness to French or German.RobD said:
Is Welsh similar enough to other languages to be useful in that way?DecrepiterJohnL said:
That is the claim but evidence is patchy. If learning an additional language, like, say, Welsh, helps other languages, mathematics, or whatever, then why aren't pupils in, say, Wales, racing ahead?MattW said:
He's probably right. It has huge underlying benefits for background knowledge / skills.DecrepiterJohnL said:Gavin Williamson thinks teaching Latin will improve maths and modern foreign language learning (and by coincidence, Boris is a keen classicist so that would be a reason to keep Williamson on).
Latin will be taught in state schools to end its ‘elitist’ status
Officials believe subject will help pupils learn modern foreign languages and could bring improvements in English and maths
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/30/latin-will-taught-state-schools-end-elitist-status/ (£££)0 -
We honeymooned just in time for Hurricane Hugo.OldKingCole said:
We went to Cornwall as well; toured in a borrowed (my mothers) Ford Anglia. However for us the weather was quite good.squareroot2 said:
Hear hear.ydoethur said:
Hear hear!OldKingCole said:
I see the BBC forecast for Llandudno is cloudy but dry. I remember my wedding day, almost 60 years ago; cloudy in the morning, and while the photo's were being taken, but as we set off on honeymoon the sun came out and it was a beautiful late afternoon and evening.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Have just given my son a cup of coffee, having stayed overnight with us for the first time in over 20 years in his old bedroomOldKingCole said:
Modern foreign languages such as Chinese?DecrepiterJohnL said:Gavin Williamson thinks teaching Latin will improve maths and modern foreign language learning (and by coincidence, Boris is a keen classicist so that would be a reason to keep Williamson on).
Latin will be taught in state schools to end its ‘elitist’ status
Officials believe subject will help pupils learn modern foreign languages and could bring improvements in English and maths
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/30/latin-will-taught-state-schools-end-elitist-status/ (£££)
Every so often, as I recall, there's some sort of justification for the teaching of Latin. Last time it was because it developed skills which were useful in computer programming.
And Good Morning one and all. Trust all goes well for Big G's festivities today.
And thank you for your kind comments
And at least the forecast here is for a dry day after yesterday deluge
All the best to you and your family, Mr BG!
My honeymoon to my late wife was in July 1980. We honeymooned in Cornwall based at Lostwithiel. It was Wimbledon finals the 5th to be precise and we set off full of hope in bright sunshine in her lovely little MGB GT. We arrived in Cornwall and it started to rain. The windscreen wipers failed. We had to go to Bodmin to get it fixed. It rained almost ceaselessly for two weeks... wonderful company, shame about the weather!0 -
Mr. B, sounds like a whirlwind romance.1
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Its just not something thats so easy to do.....TheScreamingEagles said:Memo to Gavin Williamson, can you please spend extra money to teach kids how to use apostrophes (correctly).
0 -
F1: hmm, don't normally bet on practice unless it's wet and an outsider might credibly win it, but Mercedes are 2.1 to top the session. May be value.1
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I took no notice of any of this stuff when at school. As a consequence my English was appalling. It annoys me intensely now.TheScreamingEagles said:Memo to Gavin Williamson, can you please spend extra money to teach kids how to use apostrophes (correctly).
0 -
The thread starter is very serious .It makes it sound like confessing to an affair or admitting nicking the Christmas Fund. The main reason to bet is to have a bit of fun , its not the end of the world if you bet on something without being an expert on it!1
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I do not disagree that teaching Latin may be good for language skills and expanding one's mind. I never argued otherwise. From personal experience I agree with you. That may also show a fail on the argument that it also helps a logical way of thinking as that was not my argument whatsoever.Charles said:
The benefit of Latin in the romantic languages is clear. It is also helpful with English grammar (I think). Maths, etc benefit because it teaches a very logical way of thinking.kjh said:
As a mathematician I fail to see how Latin or any language helps one iota. The fact that a notation is derived from another language eg iota, is completely irrelevant. If a minister thinks this they clearly have no understanding whatsoever of what is involved in doing mathsydoethur said:
Gavin Williamson has evidence? I thought he just made shit up as he went along.DecrepiterJohnL said:
I've no idea because without seeing Gavin Williamson's evidence, it is hard to know. However, since it is also claimed that classics help with other subjects like maths, biology and computing, there must be more to it than its closeness to French or German.RobD said:
Is Welsh similar enough to other languages to be useful in that way?DecrepiterJohnL said:
That is the claim but evidence is patchy. If learning an additional language, like, say, Welsh, helps other languages, mathematics, or whatever, then why aren't pupils in, say, Wales, racing ahead?MattW said:
He's probably right. It has huge underlying benefits for background knowledge / skills.DecrepiterJohnL said:Gavin Williamson thinks teaching Latin will improve maths and modern foreign language learning (and by coincidence, Boris is a keen classicist so that would be a reason to keep Williamson on).
Latin will be taught in state schools to end its ‘elitist’ status
Officials believe subject will help pupils learn modern foreign languages and could bring improvements in English and maths
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/30/latin-will-taught-state-schools-end-elitist-status/ (£££)
I can see how Latin might help with Science given how many scientific names derive from Latin and give an idea of their purpose as a result. But I would have thought if any classical language was useful for maths and by extension ICT it would be Greek, not Latin.
But something teaching people just to expand their mind is a good thing
It has no place in logic. As with all languages, although often structured, they always have logical flaws as they evolved.
I studied logic as a specialist subject and we would often dismantle text into logical or otherwise equations.0 -
Or Martial 11.104.TheScreamingEagles said:
No, honestly reading Catullus 16 will get teenagers hooked on Latin.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, you're being naughty and you know it.
I certainly got my classmates' attention when I told them about Tiberius' "minnows."0 -
Fun fact about the utility of Latin: David Packard (of Hewlett Packard)'s very first foray into computing was a program to count the different grammatical constructions in Lucretius book 1 while he was a postgrad at Cambridge. JK Rowling also profited from doing classics at Exeter.0
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Surely everyone does that just to annoy them?TheScreamingEagles said:
Nah, as a scholar of both history and Latin I know what I speak of.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, it'll make the rest of his stuff mostly seem boring, though.
I guess as a fluent speaker of seven languages I like showing off my skills.
(Although I sound like Officer Crabtree these days when I try and speak French.)0 -
There's a lot of weather queueing up out West over the next week or so on windy.com.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. B, sounds like a whirlwind romance.
0 -
It would annoy me as well.kjh said:
I took no notice of any of this stuff when at school. As a consequence my English was appalling. It annoys me intensely now.TheScreamingEagles said:Memo to Gavin Williamson, can you please spend extra money to teach kids how to use apostrophes (correctly).
0 -
Is that the division by zero error?kjh said:
Not even wrong, just my opinion and of course I agreed with the thrust of your opinion..ydoethur said:
Nice to know it was reasonable, even if it was wrong.kjh said:
My comment wasn't aimed at you @ydoethur but our friend Gavin. Thought your post reasonable.ydoethur said:
I’d have stopped there, tbh.kjh said:
As a mathematician I fail to see how Latin or any language helps one iota. The fact that a notation is derived from another language eg iota, is completely irrelevant. If a minister thinks this they clearly have no understanding whatsoeverydoethur said:
Gavin Williamson has evidence? I thought he just made shit up as he went along.DecrepiterJohnL said:
I've no idea because without seeing Gavin Williamson's evidence, it is hard to know. However, since it is also claimed that classics help with other subjects like maths, biology and computing, there must be more to it than its closeness to French or German.RobD said:
Is Welsh similar enough to other languages to be useful in that way?DecrepiterJohnL said:
That is the claim but evidence is patchy. If learning an additional language, like, say, Welsh, helps other languages, mathematics, or whatever, then why aren't pupils in, say, Wales, racing ahead?MattW said:
He's probably right. It has huge underlying benefits for background knowledge / skills.DecrepiterJohnL said:Gavin Williamson thinks teaching Latin will improve maths and modern foreign language learning (and by coincidence, Boris is a keen classicist so that would be a reason to keep Williamson on).
Latin will be taught in state schools to end its ‘elitist’ status
Officials believe subject will help pupils learn modern foreign languages and could bring improvements in English and maths
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/30/latin-will-taught-state-schools-end-elitist-status/ (£££)
I can see how Latin might help with Science given how many scientific names derive from Latin and give an idea of their purpose as a result. But I would have thought if any classical language was useful for maths and by extension ICT it would be Greek, not Latin.
My knowledge of maths extends to trolling the maths teachers at my school by putting up 2+2=5 on the whiteboards before maths lessons. I couldn’t personally see a link but I thought there might be one for Greek. If I’m wrong, I’m wrong.
PS I can make that 2+ 2 = 5 work for you with a bit of thought.
My 2+2=5 is as follows:
2.49+2.49=4.98
Round all of them to the nearest whole number.
Amuses the children no end.
If there’s a proper way of doing it I’d be interested to hear it.
Like your sum.
I would have to think about getting that exact sum but if you change the base you might be able to do it. The fact we use 10 as a base is just chance. Base 2, 8 and 16 are used commonly. I am aware of an ancient number system that used base 60 (mind boggling).
Obviously in base 2 : 1 + 1 = 10 Can do loads of stuff like that.
I can also show 1 = 2 by making an error, but which is very difficult to spot. I posted it here before and will do so again when on a laptop and not my phone.0 -
My use of the apostrophe is generally very good. However when using my Chinese phone, auto correct adds apostrophes to pretty well anything ending in an s, or where there is a double l present. Without fail "ill" becomes "I'll". Infact I have just had to recorrect "I'll" back to "ill". (twice).TheScreamingEagles said:Memo to Gavin Williamson, can you please spend extra money to teach kids how to use apostrophes (correctly).
0 -
Isn't that the purpose of this site; to give thoughtful punters on politics a head start on those who bet 'because they hope the LD's will win' or similar. And why several posters have complained that the bookies won't allow them to bet as heavily as they would wish. They've acquired knowledge which means that they aren't betting purely on instinct; they know what they're doing, expect to win and generally do.state_go_away said:The thread starter is very serious .It makes it sound like confessing to an affair or admitting nicking the Christmas Fund. The main reason to bet is to have a bit of fun , its not the end of the world if you bet on something without being an expert on it!
We had a good example of a 'fun' bet in 2016 when Dr Foxy reported having, at the start of the season, putting £10 on Leicester City to win the League, as, I think he posted, he often did.
Contrast this with Mr Dancer who carefully analyses F1 prospects, and shared that analysis.2 -
Okay, confession time, and if anyone ever mentions it again, I'll deny it/say my account was hacked.DavidL said:
Surely everyone does that just to annoy them?TheScreamingEagles said:
Nah, as a scholar of both history and Latin I know what I speak of.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, it'll make the rest of his stuff mostly seem boring, though.
I guess as a fluent speaker of seven languages I like showing off my skills.
(Although I sound like Officer Crabtree these days when I try and speak French.)
There was a time between the ages of 12 through to 25 when I spoke French fluently, French people actually thought I was a Frenchman, because only people born and bred in France spoke like that.
1 -
So I looked up who used base 60, and as I had suspected, it was the Sumerians. However what I didn't realise was that the system has survived to this day in the measurement of angles. A circle is 360 deg, etc.Daveyboy1961 said:
Is that the division by zero error?kjh said:
Not even wrong, just my opinion and of course I agreed with the thrust of your opinion..ydoethur said:
Nice to know it was reasonable, even if it was wrong.kjh said:
My comment wasn't aimed at you @ydoethur but our friend Gavin. Thought your post reasonable.ydoethur said:
I’d have stopped there, tbh.kjh said:
As a mathematician I fail to see how Latin or any language helps one iota. The fact that a notation is derived from another language eg iota, is completely irrelevant. If a minister thinks this they clearly have no understanding whatsoeverydoethur said:
Gavin Williamson has evidence? I thought he just made shit up as he went along.DecrepiterJohnL said:
I've no idea because without seeing Gavin Williamson's evidence, it is hard to know. However, since it is also claimed that classics help with other subjects like maths, biology and computing, there must be more to it than its closeness to French or German.RobD said:
Is Welsh similar enough to other languages to be useful in that way?DecrepiterJohnL said:
That is the claim but evidence is patchy. If learning an additional language, like, say, Welsh, helps other languages, mathematics, or whatever, then why aren't pupils in, say, Wales, racing ahead?MattW said:
He's probably right. It has huge underlying benefits for background knowledge / skills.DecrepiterJohnL said:Gavin Williamson thinks teaching Latin will improve maths and modern foreign language learning (and by coincidence, Boris is a keen classicist so that would be a reason to keep Williamson on).
Latin will be taught in state schools to end its ‘elitist’ status
Officials believe subject will help pupils learn modern foreign languages and could bring improvements in English and maths
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/30/latin-will-taught-state-schools-end-elitist-status/ (£££)
I can see how Latin might help with Science given how many scientific names derive from Latin and give an idea of their purpose as a result. But I would have thought if any classical language was useful for maths and by extension ICT it would be Greek, not Latin.
My knowledge of maths extends to trolling the maths teachers at my school by putting up 2+2=5 on the whiteboards before maths lessons. I couldn’t personally see a link but I thought there might be one for Greek. If I’m wrong, I’m wrong.
PS I can make that 2+ 2 = 5 work for you with a bit of thought.
My 2+2=5 is as follows:
2.49+2.49=4.98
Round all of them to the nearest whole number.
Amuses the children no end.
If there’s a proper way of doing it I’d be interested to hear it.
Like your sum.
I would have to think about getting that exact sum but if you change the base you might be able to do it. The fact we use 10 as a base is just chance. Base 2, 8 and 16 are used commonly. I am aware of an ancient number system that used base 60 (mind boggling).
Obviously in base 2 : 1 + 1 = 10 Can do loads of stuff like that.
I can also show 1 = 2 by making an error, but which is very difficult to spot. I posted it here before and will do so again when on a laptop and not my phone.
And, of course time. 60 minutes in an hour etc.0 -
Mr. Eagles/Mr. kjh, back when I was writing creatively I had some beta readers who offered very useful feedback. One time I accidentally sent a document that had my own notes still in it, including something along the lines of "apostrophe not needed for 'its'. Correct, then cut your hands off".0
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That's all phones. Autocorrect/predictive text is the bane* of my existence.Mexicanpete said:
My use of the apostrophe is generally very good. However when using my Chinese phone, auto correct adds apostrophes to pretty well anything ending in an s, or where there is a double l present. Without fail "ill" becomes "I'll". Infact I have just had to recorrect "I'll" back to "ill". (twice).TheScreamingEagles said:Memo to Gavin Williamson, can you please spend extra money to teach kids how to use apostrophes (correctly).
*Because I have dealings with a firm called Bain and I also have a friend with the surname Bain, autocorrect often changes bane to Bain.1 -
Quietly dropping the pass sanitaire by September would be Macron's path to staying in the Elysée, but what if it's like the poll tax? No way could Thatcher have U-turned quietly, and if she'd U-turned at all she wouldn't have won the 1992 election. Parisian friends tell me the official police figure of 160000 for protestors last Saturday across the country was an underestimate that was exceeded in Paris alone. Macron seems to be unifying everyone who is against the government. Laying him at 1.95 is value.rcs1000 said:
Surely what will happen is that there will be a lot of vaccinations in France, and then it will be quietly dropped.YoungTurk said:
A number of hospitals are already on strike against mandatory vaccination for healthworkers and the pass sanitaire, and there are calls for a general strike.YoungTurk said:The vaccine passport law in France is set to go before the Constitutional Council, which reviews every law passed by Parliament, on Thursday. If it receives the OK then it will come into force four days later. Last Saturday, protestors throughout the country numbered 160000. There'll be more than that tomorrow. "The Local" (news site for expats) must be joking when they write that "(m)ore than 10,000 people are expected to join the four protests in the capital." Friends in Paris tell me you can multiply that by at least 20, possibly 50. It's obvious that tomorrow is a Big Day for opponents of the proposed law, as the last Saturday prior to the CC decision.
Watch this space. There is a clear focus. This is rising, not falling.
Last week, France went from 70% of adults with at least one jab to 74%. A couple more weeks of that and they’ll be comfortably in the 80s.
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Is Latin useful? A colleague once told me he met a group of Polish monks visiting Rome who had their money stolen. Not speaking Italian they sought help from passers by, saying in Latin "non habemos pecuniam". This was met by blank expressions until they met my colleague linguist with his Irish-Catholic background and sure-footed knowledge of Latin.1
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That is because, in the round, it was indeed very successful. And the schedule gifted the athletics team three of its four gold medals within the space on an hour.IanB2 said:
Interesting that we all remember London as a stunning success, whereas the athletics medal total is unexceptional.pigeon said:
Ooops! Typos happen.IanB2 said:
London is therefore 4G?pigeon said:
GB Athletics - Olympic medal performance since 2000FrancisUrquhart said:Answer my own question....No British man has won an Olympic middle-distance medal for more than 30 years.
For all the money pumped into athletics that is very poor.
Sydney (2,2,2):
Gold:
Denise Lewis, Heptathlon
Jonathan Edwards, Triple Jump
Silver:
Darren Campbell, 200m
Steve Backley, Javelin
Bronze:
Katharine Merry, 400m
Kelly Holmes, 800m
Athens (3,0,1):
Gold:
Kelly Holmes, 800m & 1500m
Men's 4x100m relay
Silver:
None
Bronze:
Kelly Sotherton, Heptathlon
Beijing (1,2,5):
Gold:
Christine Ohuruogu, 400m
Silver:
Phillips Idowu, Triple Jump
Germaine Mason, High Jump
Bronze:
Men's 4x400m relay
Women's 4x400m relay
Tasha Danvers, 400m hurdles
Goldie Sayers, Javelin
Kelly Sotherton, Heptathlon
London (3,1,1):
Gold:
Mo Farah, 5,000m & 10,000m
Greg Rutherford, Long Jump
Jessica Ennis, Heptathlon
Silver:
Christine Ohuruogu, 400m
Bronze:
Robbie Grabarz, High Jump
Rio de Janeiro (2,1,4):
Gold:
Mo Farah, 5,000m & 10,000m
Silver:
Jessica Ennis-Hill, Heptathlon
Bronze:
Women's 4x100m relay
Women's 4x400m relay
Greg Rutherford, Long Jump
Sophie Hitchon, Hammer
In short, there have been only two British medallists at any distance over 400m this century, even if they so happened to be exceptional ones.
Anyway, on the state of British Men's track athletics, did you know that:
* All of the individual sprint distance records (100m, 200m, 400m, 110m hurdles and 400m hurdles) date back to the 1990s. The 800m record still belongs to Sebastian Coe and was set in 1981.
* Records for the longer Olympic track distances, barring the 3000m steeplechase which dates back to 1988, are all held by Mo Farah (who also holds the British marathon record.)
* Mo Farah is also the only individual men's champion in any track event since Linford Christie won the 100m in Barcelona in 1992 (the men's 4x100m relay squad won gold in Athens.)
In field events, only two British men have become Olympic champions so far this century: Jonathan Edwards in Sydney, and Greg Rutherford in London.0 -
I have long wondered if it would be possible to do that at set pieces, but never tried it. Interesting article, Sir Clive was ahead of his timeTheScreamingEagles said:This is quite a concept.
Excellent article with England's world cup winning coach.
‘I wanted us to lift Peter Crouch up at a corner like a second row in rugby’ – Clive Woodward at Southampton
https://theathletic.com/2725048/2021/07/31/i-wanted-us-to-lift-peter-crouch-up-at-a-corner-like-a-second-row-in-rugby-clive-woodward-at-southampton/0 -
I went to a grammar school in the 70s and studied compulsory Latin for 2 years. The first term consisted entirely of English grammar, which I think the teacher thought would help with Latin grammar. It did, but it as infinitely more valuable in my English lessons. I did find Latin very interesting and enjoyable, I only dropped it during the options time as I was a scientist at school.TheScreamingEagles said:
It would annoy me as well.kjh said:
I took no notice of any of this stuff when at school. As a consequence my English was appalling. It annoys me intensely now.TheScreamingEagles said:Memo to Gavin Williamson, can you please spend extra money to teach kids how to use apostrophes (correctly).
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I went to a grammar school in the 1970s, too. We learned French, Spanish and Latin grammar. We were never taught English grammar! If it was taught routinely I think that, as a country, we'd be far better at foreign languages. Once you understand how your own one works, you are in a much better position to learn others.Daveyboy1961 said:
I went to a grammar school in the 70s and studied compulsory Latin for 2 years. The first term consisted entirely of English grammar, which I think the teacher thought would help with Latin grammar. It did, but it as infinitely more valuable in my English lessons. I did find Latin very interesting and enjoyable, I only dropped it during the options time as I was a scientist at school.TheScreamingEagles said:
It would annoy me as well.kjh said:
I took no notice of any of this stuff when at school. As a consequence my English was appalling. It annoys me intensely now.TheScreamingEagles said:Memo to Gavin Williamson, can you please spend extra money to teach kids how to use apostrophes (correctly).
1 -
I learnt almost nothing in English. Far more useful info on language structure etc was learnt from French and German lessons. The English lessons I had could've been entirely replaced at no detriment to my education.0
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I noticed down thread that the mixed gender triathlon includes Transition.
Take about extreme sports!3 -
One other Olympic factoid, prompted by discussion of the series of unfortunate events in the rowing: husband informs me that Great Britain holds the all-time record for fourth place finishes in Olympic competition.1
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Depends on where you are I guess. I've got quite a few places open at 7am on my walk to the tube station (East Finchley).Nigelb said:
Each to their own, Max.MaxPB said:Report from London's night life.
It's back. It's almost as if the last 18 months never happened. Genuinely think that nothing can break us. London will always prevail where other places won't.
It's legitimately everything I remember from two years ago with the same sad haters who believe no one ever really wants to leave their house after 9pm. I think there's a pretty big correlation between those saddos and the people who think permanent remote working is how we'll all live forever.
Some of us introverts are quite happy with it.
As an aside, why are there no decent breakfast places open in parts of London before 9am ?
That is sad.0 -
I didn't even know that English had a grammar until I started learning Latin. All the focus in English was creative writing (which is certainly a good skill) vocabulary and spelling (certainly useful, but less useful than grammar).SouthamObserver said:
I went to a grammar school in the 1970s, too. We learned French, Spanish and Latin grammar. We were never taught English grammar! If it was taught routinely I think that, as a country, we'd be far better at foreign languages. Once you understand how your own one works, you are in a much better position to learn others.Daveyboy1961 said:
I went to a grammar school in the 70s and studied compulsory Latin for 2 years. The first term consisted entirely of English grammar, which I think the teacher thought would help with Latin grammar. It did, but it as infinitely more valuable in my English lessons. I did find Latin very interesting and enjoyable, I only dropped it during the options time as I was a scientist at school.TheScreamingEagles said:
It would annoy me as well.kjh said:
I took no notice of any of this stuff when at school. As a consequence my English was appalling. It annoys me intensely now.TheScreamingEagles said:Memo to Gavin Williamson, can you please spend extra money to teach kids how to use apostrophes (correctly).
1 -
What a snivelling suck up.DecrepiterJohnL said:Gavin Williamson thinks teaching Latin will improve maths and modern foreign language learning (and by coincidence, Boris is a keen classicist so that would be a reason to keep Williamson on).
Latin will be taught in state schools to end its ‘elitist’ status
Officials believe subject will help pupils learn modern foreign languages and could bring improvements in English and maths
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/30/latin-will-taught-state-schools-end-elitist-status/ (£££)
(Not against Latin, I found it interesting doing just a very little of it at Uni, and as Sean F says I'd not really been taught grammar before that, but come on)1 -
Back in the 80's I went on a trip to what was then Czechoslovakia and as part of the trip visited a elderly lady pharmacy academic in Bratislava. She complained that she was now expected to teach, as well as Czech and Slovak students, North Vietnamese, as part of some support scheme, and that she and they had no common language.geoffw said:Is Latin useful? A colleague once told me he met a group of Polish monks visiting Rome who had their money stolen. Not speaking Italian they sought help from passers by, saying in Latin "non habemos pecuniam". This was met by blank expressions until they met my colleague linguist with his Irish-Catholic background and sure-footed knowledge of Latin.
'Not even Latin' she sniffed, and said something about all students learn that, surely.0 -
@ydoethur here is the 1 = 2 problem. A secondary school child should understand it, but only a very bright one will know what the flaw is that createws a wrong answer. When I showed it on PB most people could spot the error.
This generally doesn't crop up in school as problems are set to avoid it, but obviously it can do easily if the child goes down an interesting route. With complex equations it is very easy to fall into the trap of making this mistake and not being aware of it. Often you only notice several pages later when you get a nonsense result and can't see any error. I have done it many times sadly with very big equations
Define a = b
Therefore a.a = a.b
Therefore a.a - b.b = a.b - b.b
Therefore (a + b)(a - b) = b(a - b)
Therefore a + b = b
Therefore (as a = b) 2b = b
Therefore 2 = 1
The above would look better if the square sign was used in lines 2 and 3 but I couldn't be arsed to find out how to do it.
There is nothing wrong with each mathematical process from each line to the next. The flaw is in moving from line 4 to line 5. To do so I have divided each side by (a - b). Normally there would be nothing wrong with this, but because I have defined a = b and because therefore each side of the equation is in effect 0 = 0 then I have 0 divided by 0 going from line 4 to line 5.
As a consequence I am able to prove (incorrectly) that any damn number equals anything I want it to!1 -
Similar to my experience of a grammar school. Latin until 3rd form and then dropped it for science at GCSE.Daveyboy1961 said:
I went to a grammar school in the 70s and studied compulsory Latin for 2 years. The first term consisted entirely of English grammar, which I think the teacher thought would help with Latin grammar. It did, but it as infinitely more valuable in my English lessons. I did find Latin very interesting and enjoyable, I only dropped it during the options time as I was a scientist at school.TheScreamingEagles said:
It would annoy me as well.kjh said:
I took no notice of any of this stuff when at school. As a consequence my English was appalling. It annoys me intensely now.TheScreamingEagles said:Memo to Gavin Williamson, can you please spend extra money to teach kids how to use apostrophes (correctly).
0 -
Yes. I just posted it. Very good memory.Daveyboy1961 said:
Is that the division by zero error?kjh said:
Not even wrong, just my opinion and of course I agreed with the thrust of your opinion..ydoethur said:
Nice to know it was reasonable, even if it was wrong.kjh said:
My comment wasn't aimed at you @ydoethur but our friend Gavin. Thought your post reasonable.ydoethur said:
I’d have stopped there, tbh.kjh said:
As a mathematician I fail to see how Latin or any language helps one iota. The fact that a notation is derived from another language eg iota, is completely irrelevant. If a minister thinks this they clearly have no understanding whatsoeverydoethur said:
Gavin Williamson has evidence? I thought he just made shit up as he went along.DecrepiterJohnL said:
I've no idea because without seeing Gavin Williamson's evidence, it is hard to know. However, since it is also claimed that classics help with other subjects like maths, biology and computing, there must be more to it than its closeness to French or German.RobD said:
Is Welsh similar enough to other languages to be useful in that way?DecrepiterJohnL said:
That is the claim but evidence is patchy. If learning an additional language, like, say, Welsh, helps other languages, mathematics, or whatever, then why aren't pupils in, say, Wales, racing ahead?MattW said:
He's probably right. It has huge underlying benefits for background knowledge / skills.DecrepiterJohnL said:Gavin Williamson thinks teaching Latin will improve maths and modern foreign language learning (and by coincidence, Boris is a keen classicist so that would be a reason to keep Williamson on).
Latin will be taught in state schools to end its ‘elitist’ status
Officials believe subject will help pupils learn modern foreign languages and could bring improvements in English and maths
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/30/latin-will-taught-state-schools-end-elitist-status/ (£££)
I can see how Latin might help with Science given how many scientific names derive from Latin and give an idea of their purpose as a result. But I would have thought if any classical language was useful for maths and by extension ICT it would be Greek, not Latin.
My knowledge of maths extends to trolling the maths teachers at my school by putting up 2+2=5 on the whiteboards before maths lessons. I couldn’t personally see a link but I thought there might be one for Greek. If I’m wrong, I’m wrong.
PS I can make that 2+ 2 = 5 work for you with a bit of thought.
My 2+2=5 is as follows:
2.49+2.49=4.98
Round all of them to the nearest whole number.
Amuses the children no end.
If there’s a proper way of doing it I’d be interested to hear it.
Like your sum.
I would have to think about getting that exact sum but if you change the base you might be able to do it. The fact we use 10 as a base is just chance. Base 2, 8 and 16 are used commonly. I am aware of an ancient number system that used base 60 (mind boggling).
Obviously in base 2 : 1 + 1 = 10 Can do loads of stuff like that.
I can also show 1 = 2 by making an error, but which is very difficult to spot. I posted it here before and will do so again when on a laptop and not my phone.0 -
I cannot actually recall now what I did in English language GCSE as opposed to the English literature one.Morris_Dancer said:I learnt almost nothing in English. Far more useful info on language structure etc was learnt from French and German lessons. The English lessons I had could've been entirely replaced at no detriment to my education.
I presume i learned something, but it's one of those areas I feel being an avid reader as a child helped more than anything else.0 -
Isnt that the company Mitt Romney worked for?TheScreamingEagles said:
That's all phones. Autocorrect/predictive text is the bane* of my existence.Mexicanpete said:
My use of the apostrophe is generally very good. However when using my Chinese phone, auto correct adds apostrophes to pretty well anything ending in an s, or where there is a double l present. Without fail "ill" becomes "I'll". Infact I have just had to recorrect "I'll" back to "ill". (twice).TheScreamingEagles said:Memo to Gavin Williamson, can you please spend extra money to teach kids how to use apostrophes (correctly).
*Because I have dealings with a firm called Bain and I also have a friend with the surname Bain, autocorrect often changes bane to Bain.0 -
Mr. kle4, yeah, I was into books from a very early age and that helped a lot.0
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Not only worked for but founded.kle4 said:
Isnt that the company Mitt Romney worked for?TheScreamingEagles said:
That's all phones. Autocorrect/predictive text is the bane* of my existence.Mexicanpete said:
My use of the apostrophe is generally very good. However when using my Chinese phone, auto correct adds apostrophes to pretty well anything ending in an s, or where there is a double l present. Without fail "ill" becomes "I'll". Infact I have just had to recorrect "I'll" back to "ill". (twice).TheScreamingEagles said:Memo to Gavin Williamson, can you please spend extra money to teach kids how to use apostrophes (correctly).
*Because I have dealings with a firm called Bain and I also have a friend with the surname Bain, autocorrect often changes bane to Bain.0 -
On which topic, in addition to contriving to finish 4th in, IIRC, no less than six of the fourteen rowing competitions, Team GB have now come fourth in both the men's and women's rugby sevens.pigeon said:One other Olympic factoid, prompted by discussion of the series of unfortunate events in the rowing: husband informs me that Great Britain holds the all-time record for fourth place finishes in Olympic competition.
Time for the British Olympic Association to start campaigning for the institution of the Pewter Medal. We'd have a sack full of the blessed things.0 -
Best of luck for everything today!Big_G_NorthWales said:
Have just given my son a cup of coffee, having stayed overnight with us for the first time in over 20 years in his old bedroomOldKingCole said:
Modern foreign languages such as Chinese?DecrepiterJohnL said:Gavin Williamson thinks teaching Latin will improve maths and modern foreign language learning (and by coincidence, Boris is a keen classicist so that would be a reason to keep Williamson on).
Latin will be taught in state schools to end its ‘elitist’ status
Officials believe subject will help pupils learn modern foreign languages and could bring improvements in English and maths
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/30/latin-will-taught-state-schools-end-elitist-status/ (£££)
Every so often, as I recall, there's some sort of justification for the teaching of Latin. Last time it was because it developed skills which were useful in computer programming.
And Good Morning one and all. Trust all goes well for Big G's festivities today.
And thank you for your kind comments
And at least the forecast here is for a dry day after yesterday deluge5 -
However it matters not a jot as no-one but a few weirdos care nowadays and if you really need to you stick it on the computer and get it done for you.kjh said:
I took no notice of any of this stuff when at school. As a consequence my English was appalling. It annoys me intensely now.TheScreamingEagles said:Memo to Gavin Williamson, can you please spend extra money to teach kids how to use apostrophes (correctly).
0 -
More than that, the grammar of your native language should be taught with a view to your learning the grammar of other languages. An example is that it's important to teach noun cases. Even though nouns in English take a single form across cases, they should still be viewed as being in this or that case. Not only does this help with many other languages but it also helps bring home the difference between form and function. Function is precisely what the parts of speech and the articulation of clauses are about. Another example is that the perfect and progressive forms of a verb can be taught as a matter of aspect rather than tense. You don't have to make a big thing about it: you can just point it out. It helps with Slavic languages.SouthamObserver said:
I went to a grammar school in the 1970s, too. We learned French, Spanish and Latin grammar. We were never taught English grammar! If it was taught routinely I think that, as a country, we'd be far better at foreign languages. Once you understand how your own one works, you are in a much better position to learn others.Daveyboy1961 said:
I went to a grammar school in the 70s and studied compulsory Latin for 2 years. The first term consisted entirely of English grammar, which I think the teacher thought would help with Latin grammar. It did, but it as infinitely more valuable in my English lessons. I did find Latin very interesting and enjoyable, I only dropped it during the options time as I was a scientist at school.TheScreamingEagles said:
It would annoy me as well.kjh said:
I took no notice of any of this stuff when at school. As a consequence my English was appalling. It annoys me intensely now.TheScreamingEagles said:Memo to Gavin Williamson, can you please spend extra money to teach kids how to use apostrophes (correctly).
0 -
Makes me try to reflect on the first book I ever read and I'm drawing a blank. I vividly remember Matilda and other Dahl books as favourites, but I must have read things before going straight to that.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. kle4, yeah, I was into books from a very early age and that helped a lot.
0 -
Sadly my brain contains a lot of crap information. Don't know why I remembered the base 60 stuff. Might be because I can't comprehend how you can hold that number of symbols in your head.OldKingCole said:
So I looked up who used base 60, and as I had suspected, it was the Sumerians. However what I didn't realise was that the system has survived to this day in the measurement of angles. A circle is 360 deg, etc.Daveyboy1961 said:
Is that the division by zero error?kjh said:
Not even wrong, just my opinion and of course I agreed with the thrust of your opinion..ydoethur said:
Nice to know it was reasonable, even if it was wrong.kjh said:
My comment wasn't aimed at you @ydoethur but our friend Gavin. Thought your post reasonable.ydoethur said:
I’d have stopped there, tbh.kjh said:
As a mathematician I fail to see how Latin or any language helps one iota. The fact that a notation is derived from another language eg iota, is completely irrelevant. If a minister thinks this they clearly have no understanding whatsoeverydoethur said:
Gavin Williamson has evidence? I thought he just made shit up as he went along.DecrepiterJohnL said:
I've no idea because without seeing Gavin Williamson's evidence, it is hard to know. However, since it is also claimed that classics help with other subjects like maths, biology and computing, there must be more to it than its closeness to French or German.RobD said:
Is Welsh similar enough to other languages to be useful in that way?DecrepiterJohnL said:
That is the claim but evidence is patchy. If learning an additional language, like, say, Welsh, helps other languages, mathematics, or whatever, then why aren't pupils in, say, Wales, racing ahead?MattW said:
He's probably right. It has huge underlying benefits for background knowledge / skills.DecrepiterJohnL said:Gavin Williamson thinks teaching Latin will improve maths and modern foreign language learning (and by coincidence, Boris is a keen classicist so that would be a reason to keep Williamson on).
Latin will be taught in state schools to end its ‘elitist’ status
Officials believe subject will help pupils learn modern foreign languages and could bring improvements in English and maths
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/30/latin-will-taught-state-schools-end-elitist-status/ (£££)
I can see how Latin might help with Science given how many scientific names derive from Latin and give an idea of their purpose as a result. But I would have thought if any classical language was useful for maths and by extension ICT it would be Greek, not Latin.
My knowledge of maths extends to trolling the maths teachers at my school by putting up 2+2=5 on the whiteboards before maths lessons. I couldn’t personally see a link but I thought there might be one for Greek. If I’m wrong, I’m wrong.
PS I can make that 2+ 2 = 5 work for you with a bit of thought.
My 2+2=5 is as follows:
2.49+2.49=4.98
Round all of them to the nearest whole number.
Amuses the children no end.
If there’s a proper way of doing it I’d be interested to hear it.
Like your sum.
I would have to think about getting that exact sum but if you change the base you might be able to do it. The fact we use 10 as a base is just chance. Base 2, 8 and 16 are used commonly. I am aware of an ancient number system that used base 60 (mind boggling).
Obviously in base 2 : 1 + 1 = 10 Can do loads of stuff like that.
I can also show 1 = 2 by making an error, but which is very difficult to spot. I posted it here before and will do so again when on a laptop and not my phone.
And, of course time. 60 minutes in an hour etc.0 -
It is very important.malcolmg said:
However it matters not a jot as no-one but a few weirdos care nowadays and if you really need to you stick it on the computer and get it done for you.kjh said:
I took no notice of any of this stuff when at school. As a consequence my English was appalling. It annoys me intensely now.TheScreamingEagles said:Memo to Gavin Williamson, can you please spend extra money to teach kids how to use apostrophes (correctly).
It is the difference between knowing your shit and knowing you're shit.
It also helps clarify things like helping your Uncle Jack off a horse and helping your uncle jack off a horse.5 -
And mine in the 50's. We did English Language and English Literature as separate GCE subjects as well, and I have a vague memory of at least two English lessons per week, one, in retrospect, Language, the other Literature.MaxPB said:
Similar to my experience of a grammar school. Latin until 3rd form and then dropped it for science at GCSE.Daveyboy1961 said:
I went to a grammar school in the 70s and studied compulsory Latin for 2 years. The first term consisted entirely of English grammar, which I think the teacher thought would help with Latin grammar. It did, but it as infinitely more valuable in my English lessons. I did find Latin very interesting and enjoyable, I only dropped it during the options time as I was a scientist at school.TheScreamingEagles said:
It would annoy me as well.kjh said:
I took no notice of any of this stuff when at school. As a consequence my English was appalling. It annoys me intensely now.TheScreamingEagles said:Memo to Gavin Williamson, can you please spend extra money to teach kids how to use apostrophes (correctly).
0 -
Although Wikipedia’s parsing of the precise entomology of the words always makes me chuckleTheScreamingEagles said:
No, honestly reading Catullus 16 will get teenagers hooked on Latin.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, you're being naughty and you know it.
0 -
Mr. kle4, I remember reading a child's biology book at the age of 4 or so and discovering what sex was. I thought the pictures were so hilarious I ran downstairs to show my mother. She and the half dozen friends she was having tea with evidently agreed with me, because when I presented the book to them they also burst out laughing.1
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It's quite amazing what can be dragged out of ones memory from long, long ago. Even stuff for which you thought there was no use at the time.kjh said:
Sadly my brain contains a lot of crap information. Don't know why I remembered the base 60 stuff. Might be because I can't comprehend how you can hold that number of symbols in your head.OldKingCole said:
So I looked up who used base 60, and as I had suspected, it was the Sumerians. However what I didn't realise was that the system has survived to this day in the measurement of angles. A circle is 360 deg, etc.Daveyboy1961 said:
Is that the division by zero error?kjh said:
Not even wrong, just my opinion and of course I agreed with the thrust of your opinion..ydoethur said:
Nice to know it was reasonable, even if it was wrong.kjh said:
My comment wasn't aimed at you @ydoethur but our friend Gavin. Thought your post reasonable.ydoethur said:
I’d have stopped there, tbh.kjh said:
As a mathematician I fail to see how Latin or any language helps one iota. The fact that a notation is derived from another language eg iota, is completely irrelevant. If a minister thinks this they clearly have no understanding whatsoeverydoethur said:
Gavin Williamson has evidence? I thought he just made shit up as he went along.DecrepiterJohnL said:
I've no idea because without seeing Gavin Williamson's evidence, it is hard to know. However, since it is also claimed that classics help with other subjects like maths, biology and computing, there must be more to it than its closeness to French or German.RobD said:
Is Welsh similar enough to other languages to be useful in that way?DecrepiterJohnL said:
That is the claim but evidence is patchy. If learning an additional language, like, say, Welsh, helps other languages, mathematics, or whatever, then why aren't pupils in, say, Wales, racing ahead?MattW said:
He's probably right. It has huge underlying benefits for background knowledge / skills.DecrepiterJohnL said:Gavin Williamson thinks teaching Latin will improve maths and modern foreign language learning (and by coincidence, Boris is a keen classicist so that would be a reason to keep Williamson on).
Latin will be taught in state schools to end its ‘elitist’ status
Officials believe subject will help pupils learn modern foreign languages and could bring improvements in English and maths
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/30/latin-will-taught-state-schools-end-elitist-status/ (£££)
I can see how Latin might help with Science given how many scientific names derive from Latin and give an idea of their purpose as a result. But I would have thought if any classical language was useful for maths and by extension ICT it would be Greek, not Latin.
My knowledge of maths extends to trolling the maths teachers at my school by putting up 2+2=5 on the whiteboards before maths lessons. I couldn’t personally see a link but I thought there might be one for Greek. If I’m wrong, I’m wrong.
PS I can make that 2+ 2 = 5 work for you with a bit of thought.
My 2+2=5 is as follows:
2.49+2.49=4.98
Round all of them to the nearest whole number.
Amuses the children no end.
If there’s a proper way of doing it I’d be interested to hear it.
Like your sum.
I would have to think about getting that exact sum but if you change the base you might be able to do it. The fact we use 10 as a base is just chance. Base 2, 8 and 16 are used commonly. I am aware of an ancient number system that used base 60 (mind boggling).
Obviously in base 2 : 1 + 1 = 10 Can do loads of stuff like that.
I can also show 1 = 2 by making an error, but which is very difficult to spot. I posted it here before and will do so again when on a laptop and not my phone.
And, of course time. 60 minutes in an hour etc.0 -
Now you mention it, I think my experience was exactly the same. Even though it was a very long time ago and I have an appalling memory, I can still just about recall one or two of the works I studied in English Lit - but I've not a clue what I did in English Lang or what point, if any, there was to it.kle4 said:
I cannot actually recall now what I did in English language GCSE as opposed to the English literature one.Morris_Dancer said:I learnt almost nothing in English. Far more useful info on language structure etc was learnt from French and German lessons. The English lessons I had could've been entirely replaced at no detriment to my education.
I presume i learned something, but it's one of those areas I feel being an avid reader as a child helped more than anything else.0 -
Someone has a dodgy Uncle Jack comes to mind.TheScreamingEagles said:
It is very important.malcolmg said:
However it matters not a jot as no-one but a few weirdos care nowadays and if you really need to you stick it on the computer and get it done for you.kjh said:
I took no notice of any of this stuff when at school. As a consequence my English was appalling. It annoys me intensely now.TheScreamingEagles said:Memo to Gavin Williamson, can you please spend extra money to teach kids how to use apostrophes (correctly).
It is the difference between knowing your shit and knowing you're shit.
It also helps clarify things like helping your Uncle Jack off a horse and helping your uncle jack off a horse.0 -
We have a small classics department. Latin is reasonably popular in KS3, but few pick it for GCSE and even fewer for A-level.pigeon said:
Fascinating. I wonder where he plans on finding all these Latin teachers?DecrepiterJohnL said:Gavin Williamson thinks teaching Latin will improve maths and modern foreign language learning (and by coincidence, Boris is a keen classicist so that would be a reason to keep Williamson on).
Latin will be taught in state schools to end its ‘elitist’ status
Officials believe subject will help pupils learn modern foreign languages and could bring improvements in English and maths
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/30/latin-will-taught-state-schools-end-elitist-status/ (£££)
Latin teachers might be easier to find than you think: there are a surprising number of classics graduates teaching something else in schools: our first IT teacher was a classicist.
As to how learning Latin and/or Greek would help with otter subjects: a significant number of scientific (and other technical) terms are derived from those two languages, so a basic knowledge of them can help understand what is going on a bit. Physics and (even more) maths also use a large chunk of the Greek alphabet as symbols so being able to recognise those symbols as letters is always useful. For this reason Latin (and possibly a bit of Greek) are more useful than you might think, given that nobody speaks Latin any more, and modern Greek is as closely related to Ancient Greek as the language I’m using here is to the one Chaucer used.0 -
Or the difference between a person who eats shits, and leaves. And a person who eats, shits, and leaves.TheScreamingEagles said:
It is very important.malcolmg said:
However it matters not a jot as no-one but a few weirdos care nowadays and if you really need to you stick it on the computer and get it done for you.kjh said:
I took no notice of any of this stuff when at school. As a consequence my English was appalling. It annoys me intensely now.TheScreamingEagles said:Memo to Gavin Williamson, can you please spend extra money to teach kids how to use apostrophes (correctly).
It is the difference between knowing your shit and knowing you're shit.
It also helps clarify things like helping your Uncle Jack off a horse and helping your uncle jack off a horse.4 -
I'd also make English lessons teach the Oxford comma.
I know I hide it well, but I love the Oxford comma.
Apart from the A40/M40 towards Cambridge the Oxford Comma is the only decent thing to come out of Oxford.1 -
Bah. That's nothing. When we were working together, it turned out my wife's name sounds a little like a company we did work for, and a place we had an office in China. We would have tongue-twisters like: "Can Sencan call Shenzhen about the suspended substrate stripline on Sangean's system."TheScreamingEagles said:
That's all phones. Autocorrect/predictive text is the bane* of my existence.Mexicanpete said:
My use of the apostrophe is generally very good. However when using my Chinese phone, auto correct adds apostrophes to pretty well anything ending in an s, or where there is a double l present. Without fail "ill" becomes "I'll". Infact I have just had to recorrect "I'll" back to "ill". (twice).TheScreamingEagles said:Memo to Gavin Williamson, can you please spend extra money to teach kids how to use apostrophes (correctly).
*Because I have dealings with a firm called Bain and I also have a friend with the surname Bain, autocorrect often changes bane to Bain.
In fact, if you say 'Shenzhen' you're nearer the correct pronunciation of her name than if you do it phonetically ...0 -
We learnt grammar at junior school. We had a blue book with a white cross on the front.
I don't recall any grammar being taught in secondary school.
Grammar makes English more like a science. Which makes it more interesting for those whose aptitude is in that direction.
Having the ability to write in precise, unambiguous terms is essential for scientists and engineers. Correct use of grammar certainly facilitates this.5 -
I do recall having to précis. Quite useful in later life when having to pick out the significant parts of a report.pigeon said:
Now you mention it, I think my experience was exactly the same. Even though it was a very long time ago and I have an appalling memory, I can still just about recall one or two of the works I studied in English Lit - but I've not a clue what I did in English Lang or what point, if any, there was to it.kle4 said:
I cannot actually recall now what I did in English language GCSE as opposed to the English literature one.Morris_Dancer said:I learnt almost nothing in English. Far more useful info on language structure etc was learnt from French and German lessons. The English lessons I had could've been entirely replaced at no detriment to my education.
I presume i learned something, but it's one of those areas I feel being an avid reader as a child helped more than anything else.0 -
That's a classic. There's also this:kjh said:@ydoethur here is the 1 = 2 problem. A secondary school child should understand it, but only a very bright one will know what the flaw is that createws a wrong answer. When I showed it on PB most people could spot the error.
This generally doesn't crop up in school as problems are set to avoid it, but obviously it can do easily if the child goes down an interesting route. With complex equations it is very easy to fall into the trap of making this mistake and not being aware of it. Often you only notice several pages later when you get a nonsense result and can't see any error. I have done it many times sadly with very big equations
Define a = b
Therefore a.a = a.b
Therefore a.a - b.b = a.b - b.b
Therefore (a + b)(a - b) = b(a - b)
Therefore a + b = b
Therefore (as a = b) 2b = b
Therefore 2 = 1
The above would look better if the square sign was used in lines 2 and 3 but I couldn't be arsed to find out how to do it.
There is nothing wrong with each mathematical process from each line to the next. The flaw is in moving from line 4 to line 5. To do so I have divided each side by (a - b). Normally there would be nothing wrong with this, but because I have defined a = b and because therefore each side of the equation is in effect 0 = 0 then I have 0 divided by 0 going from line 4 to line 5.
As a consequence I am able to prove (incorrectly) that any damn number equals anything I want it to!
(-1)/1 = -1 = 1/(-1)
square root] sqrt(-1)/sqrt(1) = sqrt(1)/sqrt(-1)
cross-multiply] sqrt(-1) * sqrt(-1) = sqrt(1) * sqrt(1)
=> -1 = 10 -
I learned both Latin and ancient Greek at school, Greek up to Standard Grade and Latin to Higher. My school was probably one of the few Comprehensive schools in Scotland to offer both subjects. I wouldn't say it was a complete waste of time, and I enjoyed it and did well in both subjects, but with the benefit of hindsight I wish I had studied a modern language instead. For me the Classics were the easy option.TheScreamingEagles said:I'm all for teaching kids in state schools Latin and Greek.
I learned both at school and it was great.
My advice is to the teachers is to get them hooked straight away, and start with Catullus 16.
Heck I might make a career change and become a Latin teacher.
Semper ubi, sub ubi.1 -
Thanks to PB, I still have to correct back every auto capitalisation of “May”.TheScreamingEagles said:
That's all phones. Autocorrect/predictive text is the bane* of my existence.Mexicanpete said:
My use of the apostrophe is generally very good. However when using my Chinese phone, auto correct adds apostrophes to pretty well anything ending in an s, or where there is a double l present. Without fail "ill" becomes "I'll". Infact I have just had to recorrect "I'll" back to "ill". (twice).TheScreamingEagles said:Memo to Gavin Williamson, can you please spend extra money to teach kids how to use apostrophes (correctly).
*Because I have dealings with a firm called Bain and I also have a friend with the surname Bain, autocorrect often changes bane to Bain.0 -
Steven Swinford
@Steven_Swinford
·
1h
Exclusive:
Cabinet revolt over vaccine passports intensifies
Ministers warn that policy will deny people their basic freedoms
'This is the kind of thing that Dominic Cummings would endorse. It’s not who we are'
0 -
I do enjoy these mixed sex events, good spectacle, but it did make me wonder if they would be even more weighted to big, rich nations than other events, due to it being easier to find 4 pretty good participants to be involved, when individually anyone good enough might get through for their nation.0
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Minister:
'This policy [vaxports] will be in the hands of Keir Starmer and Nicola Sturgeon'
Why does that fill me with woe?1 -
On Latin. The revival of Latin in state schools has often been debated. Indeed, the then Mayor of London had a similar proposal in 2010, which came to nothing:
https://citywire.co.uk/funds-insider/news/is-boris-johnson-right-should-more-state-school-children-learn-latin/a388437
The last sentence of the article linked to does presage the future:
Or is Boris Johnson a barking mad posh idiot with little or no connection to the real world?
Gavin's proposal is very modest, if one reads the (grammatically flawed) small print:
...the Latin Excellence Programme will be led by a centre of excellence, which will work with up to 40 schools to develop teacher training resources and lesson materials for 11-16 year-olds. Once developed, the programme will support schools over four years from 2022 to 2026, which will be evaluated for future years.0 -
At one time in my life I had to review applications by pharmacists to open pharmacies. Often my heart would sink when I saw the scruffy semi-literate documents which my colleagues thought would convince the adjudicating committees.SandyRentool said:We learnt grammar at junior school. We had a blue book with a white cross on the front.
I don't recall any grammar being taught in secondary school.
Grammar makes English more like a science. Which makes it more interesting for those whose aptitude is in that direction.
Having the ability to write in precise, unambiguous terms is essential for scientists and engineers. Correct use of grammar certainly facilitates this.0 -
Apparently this is generally understood to be unsporting conduct, but I've also wondered. I think they should allow it.isam said:
I have long wondered if it would be possible to do that at set pieces, but never tried it. Interesting article, Sir Clive was ahead of his timeTheScreamingEagles said:This is quite a concept.
Excellent article with England's world cup winning coach.
‘I wanted us to lift Peter Crouch up at a corner like a second row in rugby’ – Clive Woodward at Southampton
https://theathletic.com/2725048/2021/07/31/i-wanted-us-to-lift-peter-crouch-up-at-a-corner-like-a-second-row-in-rugby-clive-woodward-at-southampton/1 -
If you think either the A40 or the M40 go anywhere near Cambridge (or even in its direction) then your geographic knowledge is… what I would expect from someone who had to settle for Cambridge.TheScreamingEagles said:I'd also make English lessons teach the Oxford comma.
I know I hide it well, but I love the Oxford comma.
Apart from the A40/M40 towards Cambridge the Oxford Comma is the only decent thing to come out of Oxford.3 -
I like to think that the mixed events are a nice, big FU to the more - shall we say - "conservative" cultures around the world.kle4 said:I do enjoy these mixed sex events, good spectacle, but it did make me wonder if they would be even more weighted to big, rich nations than other events, due to it being easier to find 4 pretty good participants to be involved, when individually anyone good enough might get through for their nation.
0 -
Obviously people can bet for whatever (healthy) reasons they want to, but as you say I am one of the PBers who has tried to make this more of a side-hustle and take it a bit seriously. And one of my goals with my articles is to promote my worldview of more analytic, serious, punting.OldKingCole said:
Isn't that the purpose of this site; to give thoughtful punters on politics a head start on those who bet 'because they hope the LD's will win' or similar. And why several posters have complained that the bookies won't allow them to bet as heavily as they would wish. They've acquired knowledge which means that they aren't betting purely on instinct; they know what they're doing, expect to win and generally do.state_go_away said:The thread starter is very serious .It makes it sound like confessing to an affair or admitting nicking the Christmas Fund. The main reason to bet is to have a bit of fun , its not the end of the world if you bet on something without being an expert on it!
We had a good example of a 'fun' bet in 2016 when Dr Foxy reported having, at the start of the season, putting £10 on Leicester City to win the League, as, I think he posted, he often did.
Contrast this with Mr Dancer who carefully analyses F1 prospects, and shared that analysis.2 -
I've been in the company of MFL (modern foreign languages) teachers lamenting the fact they had to teach the rudiments of English grammar because the English department had decided it was not needed or blocked creativity or came naturally or something.SandyRentool said:We learnt grammar at junior school. We had a blue book with a white cross on the front.
I don't recall any grammar being taught in secondary school.
Grammar makes English more like a science. Which makes it more interesting for those whose aptitude is in that direction.
Having the ability to write in precise, unambiguous terms is essential for scientists and engineers. Correct use of grammar certainly facilitates this.
Though I can see how the grammar pendulum could swing too far the other way and the subject could be made far too complex merely so someone can set an exam in it. GCSE English should not be a BA in Linguistics. (I can't decide whether "be a BA" is clever or stupid.)
But that is an argument for teaching basic English better, not for teaching Latin and hoping something transfers across from its quite different grammar.1 -
Even if tried once it would be shut down very quick, like the flicked up free kick in the 1970s.Quincel said:
Apparently this is generally understood to be unsporting conduct, but I've also wondered. I think they should allow it.isam said:
I have long wondered if it would be possible to do that at set pieces, but never tried it. Interesting article, Sir Clive was ahead of his timeTheScreamingEagles said:This is quite a concept.
Excellent article with England's world cup winning coach.
‘I wanted us to lift Peter Crouch up at a corner like a second row in rugby’ – Clive Woodward at Southampton
https://theathletic.com/2725048/2021/07/31/i-wanted-us-to-lift-peter-crouch-up-at-a-corner-like-a-second-row-in-rugby-clive-woodward-at-southampton/0 -
I agree, which is why I was keen to publish this article before the results are known. Its gonna be close one way or another.DavidL said:On topic, whilst I completely agree with @Quincel's central point I think his bets have a good chance of coming off. In the pool in particular the US have significantly underperformed their usual levels and I think that they are below par in the gymnastics too, if by less.
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