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I used to think Andy Burnham was quite terminally useless, coming in a well-deserved fourth out of five in the leadership election, a smidgen ahead of Diane Abbott.
Turns out I underestimated him - his excellent work on promoting the use of private providers in the NHS was ground-breaking, albeit rather small-scale. Still, a bit like Andrew Adonis in Education, he started a tentative move towards addressing producer interests; the coalition are now taking what he started and making it happen on a more serious scale.0 -
A racing green metallic Cortina GXL eh?
I always had a feeling that you came from the Landed Gentry.0 -
meanwhile, the NFL and its discipline issues continues to roll on........
Ray Rice is serving a 2 game ban for knocking his then-fiancee now wife unconscious and dragging her out of an elevator at an Atlantic City casino, captured in a harrowing video. Yep, she married him after all and then blamed herself for being knocked out.
Josh Gordon is facing a potential season long ban for a positive marijuana test. One sample was 1 nanogram above the limit, the other below. His appeal is on Friday.
Meanwhile the NFL seems to be giving Jim Irsay every possible benefit of every possible doubt, and his trial date is next month. EVERYBODY is watching this one.
The NFL is trying to improve its appeal to women, and it seems to be working very well. The Gordon vs Rice comparison doesn't really work well for that.
Also I can report the first sighting of the Commonwealth games on US TV - a 41 shot table tennis rally on SportsCenter.0 -
@Richard_Nabavi
The privatisation of all, and the logical rule of free market capitalism?
I am afraid that like all fanatics, your rationality is suspect.0 -
Actually the fanatics are on only one side of this equation, the Left, as I can demonstrate with a simple question:Smarmeron said:@Richard_Nabavi
The privatisation of all, and the logical rule of free market capitalism?
I am afraid that like all fanatics, your rationality is suspect.
Would you favour privatisation of specific parts of NHS provision, for example hip operations, if experience showed that the medical results were better and the costs lower? A simple Yes/No answer will suffice.
I look forward to your answer, which will show who the ideological obsessive is.
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What we need is a betting market that by 2020, irrespective of which party is in Government, hospital in-patients are charged a daily fee for their bed and/or for their meals, subject to the same exemptions whereby deserving categories do not have to pay around £8 - ouch! for prescriptions.
The NHS in its present form is simply unaffordable, even Labour fully recognises this, but neither side will say as much until after the GE.0 -
Nope - still married.peter_from_putney said:
Can we safely assume that this particular "then-fiancee" very soon afterwards became your ex-fiancee? In which case perhaps you have a great deal to thank British Leyland for.Tim_B said:
More frequently known as the All Aggro..peter_from_putney said:
I think we should scrap the term "outlier" and use the term "Monday" instead when referring to such polls, in much the same way as Austin Allegro models were referred to affectionately or otherwise as "Friday Afternoon" cars.Pulpstar said:
Neither this nor Monday's polls are outliers - thats a much bandied about word and I think people don't use it properly.TheScreamingEagles said:I said yesterday was outlier Monday....
Sun Politics @Sun_Politics · 25s
YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead drops to just one point: CON 34%, LAB 35%, LD 8%, UKIP 12%
when my then-fiancee was moving fom London to Manchester in the mid 70s after I was transferred there, her employer lent her a company car to help move her stuff up there.
She parked in my parents' driveway and shut the door, which promptly locked with the keys still in the ignition. Mostly in frustration I tried to unlock the door with my car keys (my beloved coke bottle shape racing green metallic Cortina GXL). It worked.
I had to return the car to London. Square steering wheel and all it was absolutely the worst car I have ever driven, and considering the sheer awfulness of the British Leyland range at the time, that's saying something.
A racing green metallic Cortina GXL eh?
I always had a feeling that you came from the Landed Gentry.
I see I can hide nothing from you - after years of living here I no longer insist on tugged forelocks or doffed caps, which is mighty big of me :-)
My aforementioned spouse, a Glaswegian with a temper, before her Glaswegian accent became a soft burr with American overtones, in the early years of our marriage, when annoyed, would call me all sorts of names, most of which I couldn't understand as her accent increased in step with her anger. Several came out when I unlocked the All Aggro door with my key.0 -
My answer would be no, Though I would expect the managers and doctors to find out why, and remedy the situation.
Your problem is that you are so fanatical that you can't see that while the "market" has good points, it also has no inbuilt social responsibility.
I need not show you that it lacks responsibility, you can pick up almost any paper at random and read about it yourself.0 -
@peter_from_putney - It is really quite bizarre that the mantra of 'no private providers' and 'free at the point of use' is invariably trolled out by the Left, who apparently have never heard of GP practices or prescription charges. Quite how they manage to be so out of touch with how the NHS actually operates is a great mystery to. I guess they must have private health insurance so never see it.0
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Patients don't want social responsibility - they want the best hip surgery.Smarmeron said:My answer would be no, Though I would expect the managers and doctors to find out why, and remedy the situation.
Your problem is that you are so fanatical that you can't see that while the "market" has good points, it also has no inbuilt social responsibility.
I need not show you that it lacks responsibility, you can pick up almost any paper at random and read about it yourself.0 -
It's a shameful comparison, marijuana is hardly a performance enhancing drug either.Tim_B said:meanwhile, the NFL and its discipline issues continues to roll on........
Ray Rice is serving a 2 game ban for knocking his then-fiancee now wife unconscious and dragging her out of an elevator at an Atlantic City casino, captured in a harrowing video. Yep, she married him after all and then blamed herself for being knocked out.
Josh Gordon is facing a potential season long ban for a positive marijuana test. One sample was 1 nanogram above the limit, the other below. His appeal is on Friday.
Meanwhile the NFL seems to be giving Jim Irsay every possible benefit of every possible doubt, and his trial date is next month. EVERYBODY is watching this one.
The NFL is trying to improve its appeal to women, and it seems to be working very well. The Gordon vs Rice comparison doesn't really work well for that.
Also I can report the first sighting of the Commonwealth games on US TV - a 41 shot table tennis rally on SportsCenter.0 -
Two of the UK’s most experienced and formidable bankers have joined the independence debate to accuse Alex Salmond of deceiving Scots over currency union following a “yes” vote.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/referendum/article4161615.ece
Sir Martin Jacomb, the former chairman of Prudential, and Sir Andrew Large, the former deputy governor of the Bank of England, claim in an article published in The Times today that the first minister is not being honest over what they say is the most important issue in the independence debate.
Such a hard-hitting intervention by two such senior figures will reopen the controversy over the currency options for an independent Scotland.0 -
Presumably Labour's newly-minted war on quality means that excellent private providers such as this one - very well regarded here in Sussex - will be closed down or wrecked for ideological reasons:
http://www.horderhealthcare.co.uk/patients/get-referred
The irony is that it was Labour which set up the highly successful Choose & Book scheme, one of the few good things they did.
Unfortunately the ideological obsessives seem to have taken over the party, so they've air-brushed successes like that and Hinchingbrooke out of the history.
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It's already happening - my sister in law had her gall bladder removed a couple of weeks ago at a private clinic in England. She had to wait over 3 months. My daughter had the same operation here and was able to choose her date and waited less than a week.Smarmeron said:My answer would be no, Though I would expect the managers and doctors to find out why, and remedy the situation.
Your problem is that you are so fanatical that you can't see that while the "market" has good points, it also has no inbuilt social responsibility.
I need not show you that it lacks responsibility, you can pick up almost any paper at random and read about it yourself.
I favor privatizing the NHS too - given where I live that's hardly a surprise -but I doubt anybody would want the UK health care system thrown to laissez faire capitalism red in tooth and claw without any oversight whatever.0 -
Josh Gordon's defense is 'second hand smoke' :-)Pulpstar said:
It's a shameful comparison, marijuana is hardly a performance enhancing drug either.Tim_B said:meanwhile, the NFL and its discipline issues continues to roll on........
Ray Rice is serving a 2 game ban for knocking his then-fiancee now wife unconscious and dragging her out of an elevator at an Atlantic City casino, captured in a harrowing video. Yep, she married him after all and then blamed herself for being knocked out.
Josh Gordon is facing a potential season long ban for a positive marijuana test. One sample was 1 nanogram above the limit, the other below. His appeal is on Friday.
Meanwhile the NFL seems to be giving Jim Irsay every possible benefit of every possible doubt, and his trial date is next month. EVERYBODY is watching this one.
The NFL is trying to improve its appeal to women, and it seems to be working very well. The Gordon vs Rice comparison doesn't really work well for that.
Also I can report the first sighting of the Commonwealth games on US TV - a 41 shot table tennis rally on SportsCenter.0 -
@Richard_Nabavi
Why should it be?
I am not arguing against your private sector hospitals, in fact, if it was them who figured out a new and better way of doing something, they should be granted recognition for it.0 -
You are arguing against the NHS using their services, are you not? I believe that most of the patients at the Horder Centre are NHS patients. They have transformed the service NHS patients get here in Sussex.Smarmeron said:@Richard_Nabavi
Why should it be?
I am not arguing against your private sector hospitals, in fact, if it was them who figured out a new and better way of doing something, they should be granted recognition for it.0 -
You never did say whether the keys to your beloved's All Aggro also operated the lock to your coke bottle shaped Dagenham beauty ..... I think we should be told.Tim_B said:
Nope - still married.peter_from_putney said:
Can we safely assume that this particular "then-fiancee" very soon afterwards became your ex-fiancee? In which case perhaps you have a great deal to thank British Leyland for.Tim_B said:
More frequently known as the All Aggro..peter_from_putney said:
I think we should scrap the term "outlier" and use the term "Monday" instead when referring to such polls, in much the same way as Austin Allegro models were referred to affectionately or otherwise as "Friday Afternoon" cars.Pulpstar said:
Neither this nor Monday's polls are outliers - thats a much bandied about word and I think people don't use it properly.TheScreamingEagles said:I said yesterday was outlier Monday....
Sun Politics @Sun_Politics · 25s
YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead drops to just one point: CON 34%, LAB 35%, LD 8%, UKIP 12%
when my then-fiancee was moving fom London to Manchester in the mid 70s after I was transferred there, her employer lent her a company car to help move her stuff up there.
She parked in my parents' driveway and shut the door, which promptly locked with the keys still in the ignition. Mostly in frustration I tried to unlock the door with my car keys (my beloved coke bottle shape racing green metallic Cortina GXL). It worked.
I had to return the car to London. Square steering wheel and all it was absolutely the worst car I have ever driven, and considering the sheer awfulness of the British Leyland range at the time, that's saying something.
A racing green metallic Cortina GXL eh?
I always had a feeling that you came from the Landed Gentry.
I see I can hide nothing from you - after years of living here I no longer insist on tugged forelocks or doffed caps, which is mighty big of me :-)
My aforementioned spouse, a Glaswegian with a temper, before her Glaswegian accent became a soft burr with American overtones, in the early years of our marriage, when annoyed, would call me all sorts of names, most of which I couldn't understand as her accent increased in step with her anger. Several came out when I unlocked the All Aggro door with my key.0 -
@Richard_Nabavi
I am pleased, get one of the top doctors and managers from the NHS to spend a week or so at that hospital to find out how and why it is better?
Better health for all?
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No it didn't. The all aggro key was so worn I had trouble starting the engine. It would stick in the ignition until you got the knack of how to turn it.peter_from_putney said:
You never did say whether the keys to your beloved's All Aggro also operated the lock to your coke bottle shaped Dagenham beauty ..... I think we should be told.Tim_B said:
Nope - still married.peter_from_putney said:
Can we safely assume that this particular "then-fiancee" very soon afterwards became your ex-fiancee? In which case perhaps you have a great deal to thank British Leyland for.Tim_B said:
More frequently known as the All Aggro..peter_from_putney said:
I think we should scrap the term "outlier" and use the term "Monday" instead when referring to such polls, in much the same way as Austin Allegro models were referred to affectionately or otherwise as "Friday Afternoon" cars.Pulpstar said:
Neither this nor Monday's polls are outliers - thats a much bandied about word and I think people don't use it properly.TheScreamingEagles said:I said yesterday was outlier Monday....
Sun Politics @Sun_Politics · 25s
YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead drops to just one point: CON 34%, LAB 35%, LD 8%, UKIP 12%
when my then-fiancee was moving fom London to Manchester in the mid 70s after I was transferred there, her employer lent her a company car to help move her stuff up there.
She parked in my parents' driveway and shut the door, which promptly locked with the keys still in the ignition. Mostly in frustration I tried to unlock the door with my car keys (my beloved coke bottle shape racing green metallic Cortina GXL). It worked.
I had to return the car to London. Square steering wheel and all it was absolutely the worst car I have ever driven, and considering the sheer awfulness of the British Leyland range at the time, that's saying something.
A racing green metallic Cortina GXL eh?
I always had a feeling that you came from the Landed Gentry.
I see I can hide nothing from you - after years of living here I no longer insist on tugged forelocks or doffed caps, which is mighty big of me :-)
My aforementioned spouse, a Glaswegian with a temper, before her Glaswegian accent became a soft burr with American overtones, in the early years of our marriage, when annoyed, would call me all sorts of names, most of which I couldn't understand as her accent increased in step with her anger. Several came out when I unlocked the All Aggro door with my key.
I was going to talk about my beloved until I realized you meant my wife.0 -
You forget the interconnectedness of health care. If you take away the bread and butter elective work such as hip surgery and you make other services no longer viable, and wind up with no training of the next generation of hip surgeons and no fracture service, as this has to close down as non-economic.TGOHF said:
Patients don't want social responsibility - they want the best hip surgery.Smarmeron said:My answer would be no, Though I would expect the managers and doctors to find out why, and remedy the situation.
Your problem is that you are so fanatical that you can't see that while the "market" has good points, it also has no inbuilt social responsibility.
I need not show you that it lacks responsibility, you can pick up almost any paper at random and read about it yourself.
The national tariff system means that the producer gets the same price, even if using cheap replacements that wear out, and has no teaching or training role, or obligation to deal with emergencies.
This is not scaremongering, I have seen the effects in the East Midlands.0 -
Do you have an issue with your GP being a private provider?Smarmeron said:@Richard_Nabavi
The privatisation of all, and the logical rule of free market capitalism?
I am afraid that like all fanatics, your rationality is suspect.0 -
It's crackers, I can't possibly think how smoking pot would enhance his performance at anything let alone playing American Football - or is it one of these 'role model' type bans, in which case having smoking pot at a season and beating your wife at 2 matches sends out a horrendous message !Tim_B said:
Josh Gordon's defense is 'second hand smoke' :-)Pulpstar said:
It's a shameful comparison, marijuana is hardly a performance enhancing drug either.Tim_B said:meanwhile, the NFL and its discipline issues continues to roll on........
Ray Rice is serving a 2 game ban for knocking his then-fiancee now wife unconscious and dragging her out of an elevator at an Atlantic City casino, captured in a harrowing video. Yep, she married him after all and then blamed herself for being knocked out.
Josh Gordon is facing a potential season long ban for a positive marijuana test. One sample was 1 nanogram above the limit, the other below. His appeal is on Friday.
Meanwhile the NFL seems to be giving Jim Irsay every possible benefit of every possible doubt, and his trial date is next month. EVERYBODY is watching this one.
The NFL is trying to improve its appeal to women, and it seems to be working very well. The Gordon vs Rice comparison doesn't really work well for that.
Also I can report the first sighting of the Commonwealth games on US TV - a 41 shot table tennis rally on SportsCenter.0 -
Why would you? What difference would it make?saddened said:
Do you have an issue with your GP being a private provider?Smarmeron said:@Richard_Nabavi
The privatisation of all, and the logical rule of free market capitalism?
I am afraid that like all fanatics, your rationality is suspect.
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@saddened
No, but as their system is coming under strain at the moment, it appears the market model might need tweaked?
Remember that while those GP's who are handing out the warnings, may just be looking for more money, they might equally be a symptom of a "market " breakdown?0 -
No I don't which is the point. It just amuses me that many of the people who bang on about privatization of the NHS are the same people who will tell all and sundry how marvellous their GP is.Tim_B said:
Why would you? What difference would it make?saddened said:
Do you have an issue with your GP being a private provider?Smarmeron said:@Richard_Nabavi
The privatisation of all, and the logical rule of free market capitalism?
I am afraid that like all fanatics, your rationality is suspect.0 -
On the onehand, this is not his first offense at this, but at least his third - hence the draconian punishment. He also has a DWI charge outstanding. Hardly Mr Innocent.Pulpstar said:
It's crackers, I can't possibly think how smoking pot would enhance his performance at anything let alone playing American Football - or is it one of these 'role model' type bans, in which case having smoking pot at a season and beating your wife at 2 matches sends out a horrendous message !Tim_B said:
Josh Gordon's defense is 'second hand smoke' :-)Pulpstar said:
It's a shameful comparison, marijuana is hardly a performance enhancing drug either.Tim_B said:meanwhile, the NFL and its discipline issues continues to roll on........
Ray Rice is serving a 2 game ban for knocking his then-fiancee now wife unconscious and dragging her out of an elevator at an Atlantic City casino, captured in a harrowing video. Yep, she married him after all and then blamed herself for being knocked out.
Josh Gordon is facing a potential season long ban for a positive marijuana test. One sample was 1 nanogram above the limit, the other below. His appeal is on Friday.
Meanwhile the NFL seems to be giving Jim Irsay every possible benefit of every possible doubt, and his trial date is next month. EVERYBODY is watching this one.
The NFL is trying to improve its appeal to women, and it seems to be working very well. The Gordon vs Rice comparison doesn't really work well for that.
Also I can report the first sighting of the Commonwealth games on US TV - a 41 shot table tennis rally on SportsCenter.
On the other hand -
Gordon's "A" sample tested at 16 nanograms per milliliter, a bare one nanogram per milliliter above the 15-nanogram-per-milliliter threshold, while Gordon's "B" sample -- which should theoretically be consistent with the "A" sample, as it comes from the exact same specimen -- tested at 13.63 ng/ml, lower than the threshold.
With both samples coming from the same specimen test, the results should be consistent. Gordon's attorneys do not believe their client should be suspended for a year for differing disputed test results, especially when only one was barely higher than the threshold, sources said.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11281430/josh-gordon-legal-team-say-second-hand-smoke-reason-positive-marijuana-test
NFL players play through pain much of the time, and marijuana is apparently good at easing pain.0 -
But not fairly. Typical Tory - abusing your position to favour your own interests ;-)TheScreamingEagles said:
I cover all centuries.Charles said:
What about the long nineteenth century*?TheScreamingEagles said:
My historical knowledge is vast, it allows me to compare the brilliant strategists from the ages such as Caesar and Schwarzkopf, to the inept ones, such as Hannibal and Ed Miliband, so expect more medieval and WWI references in the futureHurstLlama said:
I shall look forward to it, Mr. E, though I might say at this point I am really an English medievalist by scholarship and inclination, with a very big dose of WWI for variety, not a classical history wallah at all (save as is necessary for gently winding up Mr. Dancer).TheScreamingEagles said:
Nope. Nothing to do with Caesar. But is two classical history related things.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, might not be on for it. Sounds suspiciously Caesarian.
We are deprived and neglected here on PB!
* Admittedly a phrase coined by a notable Marxist, but you can't have everything...0 -
How do I include a jpg as part of a comment?0
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Support Iraqi Christians. Make a donation.
http://frrme.org/get-involved/donate/0 -
Speaking of marijuana, it looks like the tectonic plates are shifting.....
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/07/27/opinion/sunday/high-time-marijuana-legalization.html?_r=1&assetType=opinion0 -
Last year's Superbowl being played between a Colorado team and a California team, the two states where it's legal, made for some interesting comments.Smarmeron said:@Tim_B
Apparently it can work extremely well in some circumstances, but it is not the panacea the "medical outlets" claim either
still, all round legalisation in some of the states should make future studies easier there.
As a total non-pothead, I figured weed was basically weed. I was amazed at the - literally - dozens of kinds you can buy in the legal stores, all with their own variations of strength and effectiveness.0 -
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Jesus, just how big is Ed Miliband's hand ?surbiton said:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28542408
Money, money, money !0 -
Tim_B
There are two basic compounds, THC, which gives you the mental high, and CBD which is a relaxant. the balance between the two can vary until you find the right combination.
Pot heads just want to "have their tits blown of by it" :-)0 -
You must be inhaling second hand smoke - did you mean "off"? :-)Smarmeron said:Tim_B
There are two basic compounds, THC, which gives you the mental high, and CBD which is a relaxant. the balance between the two can vary until you find the right combination.
Pot heads just want to "have their tits blown of by it" :-)0 -
So you are here in the US also?Smarmeron said:@Tim_B
Rational debate about drugs law will never be possible here until the States finally work what the stance should be. (And the "Yanks" complain about their democracy being slow to respond?)
I used to be all for making these drugs illegal, but after decades and billions of dollars in the attempt, it has not worked.
I came to the conclusion a few years ago that it was nonsense and it was time to legalize them. Now that CO and CA have legalized them and on Sunday the Grey Lady came out for legalization, I think the dam has burst and it's only a matter of time.0 -
@Tim_B
Scotland, the "plea" was a joke ;-)
It has been nonsense all those years in the case of pot and some other things, but some substances are almost as addictive as tobacco, You would still need strict licensing laws.
(with the proviso that the government is aware that too "strict" will just lead to smuggling.)0 -
My wife's a Glaswegian which is probably why I can read what you type so easily :-)0
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I was just sent a cruel pic on facebook. Over a photo of a tornado it says -
Tornado warning in Texas!
All residents advised to go to Cowboys Stadium - no chance of a touchdown there.
- and I'm not a fan :-)0 -
(Previous thread)
"Blame" for the "cuts"??? You mean "credit for the cuts", and "blame for the fact that the cuts were necessary". That's what the poll should be asking about, instead of putting "blame" and "cuts" in the same question like that.0 -
I just noticed #16!0
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Except people don't agree with you. 60% of the public see no need for 5 years more of austerity - including an even greater proportion of UKIP voters (to pick up on the very accurate thread earlier about Kippers having Labour-like economic views).JohnLoony said:(Previous thread)
"Blame" for the "cuts"??? You mean "credit for the cuts", and "blame for the fact that the cuts were necessary". That's what the poll should be asking about, instead of putting "blame" and "cuts" in the same question like that.
Thinking about the state of Britain's economy and the amount the government spends and borrows, which of these statements comes closest to your view, even if you don't completely agree with them?
The national economy is not yet fully fixed, so we will need to continue with cuts in government spending over the next 5 years: 41%
While a period of austerity was needed, we don't need another 5 years of cuts: 25%
Cuts were never really needed, it was just used as an excuse to cut public services: 34%
http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/ANP-summary-140527.pdf0 -
No comments for three hours? Where is the night-shift at?0
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Well obviously those people are stupid then.Danny565 said:
Except people don't agree with you. ...JohnLoony said:(Previous thread)
"Blame" for the "cuts"??? You mean "credit for the cuts", and "blame for the fact that the cuts were necessary". That's what the poll should be asking about, instead of putting "blame" and "cuts" in the same question like that.
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http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/referendum/article4161615.eceScott_P said:Two of the UK’s most experienced and formidable bankers have joined the independence debate to accuse Alex Salmond of deceiving Scots over currency union following a “yes” vote.
Sir Martin Jacomb, the former chairman of Prudential, and Sir Andrew Large, the former deputy governor of the Bank of England, claim in an article published in The Times today that the first minister is not being honest over what they say is the most important issue in the independence debate.
Such a hard-hitting intervention by two such senior figures will reopen the controversy over the currency options for an independent Scotland.
Ha Ha Ha , only dumb unionists could imagine that using Bankers would help them. Below scraping the barrel now, just how desperate can they get.0 -
Life would be so much easier if Nevada and Arizona didn't steal all our water!RobD said:0 -
Ha Ha Ha , only dumb unionists could imagine that using Bankers would help them. Below scraping the barrel now, just how desperate can they get.malcolmg said:
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/referendum/article4161615.eceScott_P said:Two of the UK’s most experienced and formidable bankers have joined the independence debate to accuse Alex Salmond of deceiving Scots over currency union following a “yes” vote.
Sir Martin Jacomb, the former chairman of Prudential, and Sir Andrew Large, the former deputy governor of the Bank of England, claim in an article published in The Times today that the first minister is not being honest over what they say is the most important issue in the independence debate.
Such a hard-hitting intervention by two such senior figures will reopen the controversy over the currency options for an independent Scotland.
When are we going to get Indyref polling crossover? Only six weeks to go...
I am considering bringing forward my Burns night to Sept 19th this year to celebrate Scotland embracing the Union in a plebiscite for the first time.0 -
When are we going to get Indyref polling crossover? Only six weeks to go...foxinsoxuk said:
Ha Ha Ha , only dumb unionists could imagine that using Bankers would help them. Below scraping the barrel now, just how desperate can they get.malcolmg said:
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/referendum/article4161615.eceScott_P said:Two of the UK’s most experienced and formidable bankers have joined the independence debate to accuse Alex Salmond of deceiving Scots over currency union following a “yes” vote.
Sir Martin Jacomb, the former chairman of Prudential, and Sir Andrew Large, the former deputy governor of the Bank of England, claim in an article published in The Times today that the first minister is not being honest over what they say is the most important issue in the independence debate.
Such a hard-hitting intervention by two such senior figures will reopen the controversy over the currency options for an independent Scotland.
I am considering bringing forward my Burns night to Sept 19th this year to celebrate Scotland embracing the Union in a plebiscite for the first time.
Who cares about polls, it is the vote that counts. I would not make to many plans, you could always turn it into a wake mind you, if you get over the shock.0 -
The summer skirmishing has begun, and already the first casualty has been identified: Ed Miliband. As the preliminary bombardment ahead of the election campaign proper took its toll, the Labour leader attempted this weekend to make a virtue of his negative image, admitting he was “not going to be able to compete” with David Cameron in terms of superficial appeal. This was widely judged to be an error, and a disingenuous one at that.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ed-miliband/10998114/Ed-Miliband-the-Human-Cannonball-has-those-nasty-Tories-in-his-sights.html
Mr Miliband did not look or sound sincere because, in this respect, he is not. Far from scorning PR gimmicks, some part of him wants to be Ed the Human Cannonball, the super stuntman. He is not alone in this aspiration. Senior Labour figures have been muttering for some time that their leader should do fewer speeches and produce more snappy interventions to engage voters’ imagination. “If something wouldn’t make a topic for a Radio Five Live phone-in, then why are we doing it?” says one staffer.0 -
Ha Ha Ha , only dumb unionists could imagine that using Bankers would help them. Below scraping the barrel now, just how desperate can they get.malcolmg said:
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/referendum/article4161615.eceScott_P said:Two of the UK’s most experienced and formidable bankers have joined the independence debate to accuse Alex Salmond of deceiving Scots over currency union following a “yes” vote.
Sir Martin Jacomb, the former chairman of Prudential, and Sir Andrew Large, the former deputy governor of the Bank of England, claim in an article published in The Times today that the first minister is not being honest over what they say is the most important issue in the independence debate.
Such a hard-hitting intervention by two such senior figures will reopen the controversy over the currency options for an independent Scotland.
Isn't there a paradox here? Surely it is people like you who are confident Scotland will vote for independence who need to be concerned about what the bankers are saying. Only if Scotland votes no, does it become moot what might have been the currency arrangements.0 -
Item 16 on the nighthawks list - the fart machine. LOL! That guy is my new hero. I start my day with a belly laugh. Thanks so much for posting this.0
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@MSmithsonPB: #IndyRef YES now being rated as just 14.2% chance by punters on Betfair - almost lowest level yet http://t.co/LCfMjg0pU30
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Perdix,
Thanks for the link.0 -
What a fantastic job the media have done in providing people with the facts.Danny565 said:
Except people don't agree with you. 60% of the public see no need for 5 years more of austerity - including an even greater proportion of UKIP voters (to pick up on the very accurate thread earlier about Kippers having Labour-like economic views).JohnLoony said:(Previous thread)
"Blame" for the "cuts"??? You mean "credit for the cuts", and "blame for the fact that the cuts were necessary". That's what the poll should be asking about, instead of putting "blame" and "cuts" in the same question like that.
Thinking about the state of Britain's economy and the amount the government spends and borrows, which of these statements comes closest to your view, even if you don't completely agree with them?
The national economy is not yet fully fixed, so we will need to continue with cuts in government spending over the next 5 years: 41%
While a period of austerity was needed, we don't need another 5 years of cuts: 25%
Cuts were never really needed, it was just used as an excuse to cut public services: 34%
http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/ANP-summary-140527.pdf0 -
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ed-miliband/10998114/Ed-Miliband-the-Human-Cannonball-has-those-nasty-Tories-in-his-sights.htmlScott_P said:The summer skirmishing has begun, and already the first casualty has been identified: Ed Miliband. As the preliminary bombardment ahead of the election campaign proper took its toll, the Labour leader attempted this weekend to make a virtue of his negative image, admitting he was “not going to be able to compete” with David Cameron in terms of superficial appeal. This was widely judged to be an error, and a disingenuous one at that.
Mr Miliband did not look or sound sincere because, in this respect, he is not. Far from scorning PR gimmicks, some part of him wants to be Ed the Human Cannonball, the super stuntman. He is not alone in this aspiration. Senior Labour figures have been muttering for some time that their leader should do fewer speeches and produce more snappy interventions to engage voters’ imagination. “If something wouldn’t make a topic for a Radio Five Live phone-in, then why are we doing it?” says one staffer.
TBH, I’m not sure that it is an error. Cameron’s known to be an ex-PR man, and widely seen to be an example of the "worst type" of such. Emphasising substance over style is probably a good way to go.
Of course, he’s got to show some evidence that in office he’ll have some substance, too!0 -
Ed has no substance. He likes spin more than Cameron, he just isn't good at it.OldKingCole said:Emphasising substance over style is probably a good way to go.
Given the choice between a statement in the HoC about major International events, or a selfie with a lame duck, which does the man of substance choose?
Answers on a postcard0 -
One of two things is going to happen in a month or so:
1. We get possibly the biggest polling cock-up in history; or
2. Scotland votes NO
Hmmm......I think that guy who put 400,000 on NO at 4/1 is going to make just about the easiest 100,000 ever.
It will not be too hard to distinguish MalcolmG from a ray of sunshine the day after.0 -
Isn't there a paradox here? Surely it is people like you who are confident Scotland will vote for independence who need to be concerned about what the bankers are saying. Only if Scotland votes no, does it become moot what might have been the currency arrangements.DecrepitJohnL said:
Ha Ha Ha , only dumb unionists could imagine that using Bankers would help them. Below scraping the barrel now, just how desperate can they get.malcolmg said:
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/referendum/article4161615.eceScott_P said:Two of the UK’s most experienced and formidable bankers have joined the independence debate to accuse Alex Salmond of deceiving Scots over currency union following a “yes” vote.
Sir Martin Jacomb, the former chairman of Prudential, and Sir Andrew Large, the former deputy governor of the Bank of England, claim in an article published in The Times today that the first minister is not being honest over what they say is the most important issue in the independence debate.
Such a hard-hitting intervention by two such senior figures will reopen the controversy over the currency options for an independent Scotland.
Currency is not a concern , we will be using the pound , our current and future currency. Only liars in Westminster try to make out different for the gullible.
0 -
Blind faith is all that is required. The Great and Mighty Eck has spoken.DecrepitJohnL said:Surely it is people like you who are confident Scotland will vote for independence who need to be concerned about what the bankers are saying.
Death to the unbelievers0 -
Currency is not a concern , we will be using the pound , our current and future currency. Only liars in Westminster try to make out different for the gullible.malcolmg said:
Isn't there a paradox here? Surely it is people like you who are confident Scotland will vote for independence who need to be concerned about what the bankers are saying. Only if Scotland votes no, does it become moot what might have been the currency arrangements.DecrepitJohnL said:
Ha Ha Ha , only dumb unionists could imagine that using Bankers would help them. Below scraping the barrel now, just how desperate can they get.malcolmg said:
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/referendum/article4161615.eceScott_P said:Two of the UK’s most experienced and formidable bankers have joined the independence debate to accuse Alex Salmond of deceiving Scots over currency union following a “yes” vote.
Sir Martin Jacomb, the former chairman of Prudential, and Sir Andrew Large, the former deputy governor of the Bank of England, claim in an article published in The Times today that the first minister is not being honest over what they say is the most important issue in the independence debate.
Such a hard-hitting intervention by two such senior figures will reopen the controversy over the currency options for an independent Scotland.
I've got a Norwegian Blue I could sell you...
0 -
Currency is not a concern , we will be using the pound , our current and future currency. Only liars in Westminster try to make out different for the gullible.malcolmg said:
Isn't there a paradox here? Surely it is people like you who are confident Scotland will vote for independence who need to be concerned about what the bankers are saying. Only if Scotland votes no, does it become moot what might have been the currency arrangements.DecrepitJohnL said:
Ha Ha Ha , only dumb unionists could imagine that using Bankers would help them. Below scraping the barrel now, just how desperate can they get.malcolmg said:
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/referendum/article4161615.eceScott_P said:Two of the UK’s most experienced and formidable bankers have joined the independence debate to accuse Alex Salmond of deceiving Scots over currency union following a “yes” vote.
Sir Martin Jacomb, the former chairman of Prudential, and Sir Andrew Large, the former deputy governor of the Bank of England, claim in an article published in The Times today that the first minister is not being honest over what they say is the most important issue in the independence debate.
Such a hard-hitting intervention by two such senior figures will reopen the controversy over the currency options for an independent Scotland.
It used to be a concern.
Didn't someone once say the pound was a millstone holding Scotland back.
Now who was that gullible fool?
0 -
Currency is not a concern , we will be using the pound , our current and future currency. Only liars in Westminster try to make out different for the gullible.malcolmg said:
Isn't there a paradox here? Surely it is people like you who are confident Scotland will vote for independence who need to be concerned about what the bankers are saying. Only if Scotland votes no, does it become moot what might have been the currency arrangements.DecrepitJohnL said:
Ha Ha Ha , only dumb unionists could imagine that using Bankers would help them. Below scraping the barrel now, just how desperate can they get.malcolmg said:
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/referendum/article4161615.eceScott_P said:Two of the UK’s most experienced and formidable bankers have joined the independence debate to accuse Alex Salmond of deceiving Scots over currency union following a “yes” vote.
Sir Martin Jacomb, the former chairman of Prudential, and Sir Andrew Large, the former deputy governor of the Bank of England, claim in an article published in The Times today that the first minister is not being honest over what they say is the most important issue in the independence debate.
Such a hard-hitting intervention by two such senior figures will reopen the controversy over the currency options for an independent Scotland.
What about us not in Westminster who will vote against politicos who try and share our currency with a foreign country ?0 -
Currency is not a concern , we will be using the pound , our current and future currency. Only liars in Westminster try to make out different for the gullible.malcolmg said:
Isn't there a paradox here? Surely it is people like you who are confident Scotland will vote for independence who need to be concerned about what the bankers are saying. Only if Scotland votes no, does it become moot what might have been the currency arrangements.DecrepitJohnL said:
Ha Ha Ha , only dumb unionists could imagine that using Bankers would help them. Below scraping the barrel now, just how desperate can they get.malcolmg said:
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/referendum/article4161615.eceScott_P said:Two of the UK’s most experienced and formidable bankers have joined the independence debate to accuse Alex Salmond of deceiving Scots over currency union following a “yes” vote.
Sir Martin Jacomb, the former chairman of Prudential, and Sir Andrew Large, the former deputy governor of the Bank of England, claim in an article published in The Times today that the first minister is not being honest over what they say is the most important issue in the independence debate.
Such a hard-hitting intervention by two such senior figures will reopen the controversy over the currency options for an independent Scotland.
Listen to yourself Malcolm! And then listen to Osborne, Balls, the LibDems. This is not within Scotland's control. If the rUK doesn't want to be lender of last resort, their taxpayers to cover Scottish banking risk - then they won't. I think you're the gullible one here.0 -
What about us not in Westminster who will vote against politicos who try and share our currency with a foreign country ?TGOHF said:
Currency is not a concern , we will be using the pound , our current and future currency. Only liars in Westminster try to make out different for the gullible.malcolmg said:
Isn't there a paradox here? Surely it is people like you who are confident Scotland will vote for independence who need to be concerned about what the bankers are saying. Only if Scotland votes no, does it become moot what might have been the currency arrangements.DecrepitJohnL said:
Ha Ha Ha , only dumb unionists could imagine that using Bankers would help them. Below scraping the barrel now, just how desperate can they get.malcolmg said:
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/referendum/article4161615.eceScott_P said:Two of the UK’s most experienced and formidable bankers have joined the independence debate to accuse Alex Salmond of deceiving Scots over currency union following a “yes” vote.
Sir Martin Jacomb, the former chairman of Prudential, and Sir Andrew Large, the former deputy governor of the Bank of England, claim in an article published in The Times today that the first minister is not being honest over what they say is the most important issue in the independence debate.
Such a hard-hitting intervention by two such senior figures will reopen the controversy over the currency options for an independent Scotland.
A u-turn in favour of a popular policy is called "pragmatic" - one in favour of an unpopular one "suicidal" - I fear our friends in the North spend so long speaking to each other they are oblivious to opinions other than their own......and rUK voters will have a say......not even crap Ed is suicidal......
0 -
@Thescreamingeagles
You were right about the Monday Yougov poll being an outlier btw - but perhaps not for the reasons you expected:
http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/document/vgv6n1f9ud/YG-Archive-Pol-Sun-results-280714.pdf
469/1658 Conservative respondents
459/1658 Labour respondents
The 39 Lab - 33 Con was a Conservative favourable outlier.
Either an outlier or you'll need to send Basil a message.
So in fact it was actually #crossovermonday0 -
What about us not in Westminster who will vote against politicos who try and share our currency with a foreign country ?TGOHF said:
Currency is not a concern , we will be using the pound , our current and future currency. Only liars in Westminster try to make out different for the gullible.malcolmg said:
Isn't there a paradox here? Surely it is people like you who are confident Scotland will vote for independence who need to be concerned about what the bankers are saying. Only if Scotland votes no, does it become moot what might have been the currency arrangements.DecrepitJohnL said:
Ha Ha Ha , only dumb unionists could imagine that using Bankers would help them. Below scraping the barrel now, just how desperate can they get.malcolmg said:
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/referendum/article4161615.eceScott_P said:Two of the UK’s most experienced and formidable bankers have joined the independence debate to accuse Alex Salmond of deceiving Scots over currency union following a “yes” vote.
Sir Martin Jacomb, the former chairman of Prudential, and Sir Andrew Large, the former deputy governor of the Bank of England, claim in an article published in The Times today that the first minister is not being honest over what they say is the most important issue in the independence debate.
Such a hard-hitting intervention by two such senior figures will reopen the controversy over the currency options for an independent Scotland.
Well, remember it is in no-one's interests to sabotage an independent Scotland. It's not as if they are going to tow the country into the mid-Atlantic. Scotland will continue to use the Scottish pound, much as now, with a 1:1 exchange rate. Whether there is formal currency union, or none, or some sort of grand committee of the two nations, can be sorted out later.0 -
It used to be a concern.TheScreamingEagles said:
Currency is not a concern , we will be using the pound , our current and future currency. Only liars in Westminster try to make out different for the gullible.malcolmg said:
Isn't there a paradox here? Surely it is people like you who are confident Scotland will vote for independence who need to be concerned about what the bankers are saying. Only if Scotland votes no, does it become moot what might have been the currency arrangements.DecrepitJohnL said:
Ha Ha Ha , only dumb unionists could imagine that using Bankers would help them. Below scraping the barrel now, just how desperate can they get.malcolmg said:
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/referendum/article4161615.eceScott_P said:Two of the UK’s most experienced and formidable bankers have joined the independence debate to accuse Alex Salmond of deceiving Scots over currency union following a “yes” vote.
Sir Martin Jacomb, the former chairman of Prudential, and Sir Andrew Large, the former deputy governor of the Bank of England, claim in an article published in The Times today that the first minister is not being honest over what they say is the most important issue in the independence debate.
Such a hard-hitting intervention by two such senior figures will reopen the controversy over the currency options for an independent Scotland.
Didn't someone once say the pound was a millstone holding Scotland back.
Now who was that gullible fool?
Our very own SeanT covered this too:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100261518/scotland-will-not-be-bullied-by-reality-says-alex-salmond/
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Usual drivel from you Scott, anything intelligent to add to the debate.Scott_P said:
Blind faith is all that is required. The Great and Mighty Eck has spoken.DecrepitJohnL said:Surely it is people like you who are confident Scotland will vote for independence who need to be concerned about what the bankers are saying.
Death to the unbelievers0 -
Our very own SeanT covered this too:CarlottaVance said:
It used to be a concern.TheScreamingEagles said:
Currency is not a concern , we will be using the pound , our current and future currency. Only liars in Westminster try to make out different for the gullible.malcolmg said:
Isn't there a paradox here? Surely it is people like you who are confident Scotland will vote for independence who need to be concerned about what the bankers are saying. Only if Scotland votes no, does it become moot what might have been the currency arrangements.DecrepitJohnL said:
Ha Ha Ha , only dumb unionists could imagine that using Bankers would help them. Below scraping the barrel now, just how desperate can they get.malcolmg said:
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/referendum/article4161615.eceScott_P said:Two of the UK’s most experienced and formidable bankers have joined the independence debate to accuse Alex Salmond of deceiving Scots over currency union following a “yes” vote.
Sir Martin Jacomb, the former chairman of Prudential, and Sir Andrew Large, the former deputy governor of the Bank of England, claim in an article published in The Times today that the first minister is not being honest over what they say is the most important issue in the independence debate.
Such a hard-hitting intervention by two such senior figures will reopen the controversy over the currency options for an independent Scotland.
Didn't someone once say the pound was a millstone holding Scotland back.
Now who was that gullible fool?
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100261518/scotland-will-not-be-bullied-by-reality-says-alex-salmond/
Carlotta grovels at the feet of Sean, another unionist with nothing to add. You and Scott are made for each other.0 -
Well, remember it is in no-one's interests to sabotage an independent Scotland. It's not as if they are going to tow the country into the mid-Atlantic. Scotland will continue to use the Scottish pound, much as now, with a 1:1 exchange rate. Whether there is formal currency union, or none, or some sort of grand committee of the two nations, can be sorted out later.DecrepitJohnL said:
What about us not in Westminster who will vote against politicos who try and share our currency with a foreign country ?TGOHF said:
Currency is not a concern , we will be using the pound , our current and future currency. Only liars in Westminster try to make out different for the gullible.malcolmg said:
Isn't there a paradox here? Surely it is people like you who are confident Scotland will vote for independence who need to be concerned about what the bankers are saying. Only if Scotland votes no, does it become moot what might have been the currency arrangements.DecrepitJohnL said:
Ha Ha Ha , only dumb unionists could imagine that using Bankers would help them. Below scraping the barrel now, just how desperate can they get.malcolmg said:
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/referendum/article4161615.eceScott_P said:Two of the UK’s most experienced and formidable bankers have joined the independence debate to accuse Alex Salmond of deceiving Scots over currency union following a “yes” vote.
Sir Martin Jacomb, the former chairman of Prudential, and Sir Andrew Large, the former deputy governor of the Bank of England, claim in an article published in The Times today that the first minister is not being honest over what they say is the most important issue in the independence debate.
Such a hard-hitting intervention by two such senior figures will reopen the controversy over the currency options for an independent Scotland.
John, Careful you will upset the frothers.0 -
What about us not in Westminster who will vote against politicos who try and share our currency with a foreign country ?TGOHF said:
Currency is not a concern , we will be using the pound , our current and future currency. Only liars in Westminster try to make out different for the gullible.malcolmg said:
Isn't there a paradox here? Surely it is people like you who are confident Scotland will vote for independence who need to be concerned about what the bankers are saying. Only if Scotland votes no, does it become moot what might have been the currency arrangements.DecrepitJohnL said:
Ha Ha Ha , only dumb unionists could imagine that using Bankers would help them. Below scraping the barrel now, just how desperate can they get.malcolmg said:
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/referendum/article4161615.eceScott_P said:Two of the UK’s most experienced and formidable bankers have joined the independence debate to accuse Alex Salmond of deceiving Scots over currency union following a “yes” vote.
Sir Martin Jacomb, the former chairman of Prudential, and Sir Andrew Large, the former deputy governor of the Bank of England, claim in an article published in The Times today that the first minister is not being honest over what they say is the most important issue in the independence debate.
Such a hard-hitting intervention by two such senior figures will reopen the controversy over the currency options for an independent Scotland.
So you will swap the Tories for LabourTories , big deal. They will deal with the devil if they make money on it , surely you have enough braincells to realise that they are lying cheating good for nothings. Plenty of proof for anybody that can read.
PS I presume you will have hard choice between UKIP and BNP to make then.0 -
Listen to yourself Malcolm! And then listen to Osborne, Balls, the LibDems. This is not within Scotland's control. If the rUK doesn't want to be lender of last resort, their taxpayers to cover Scottish banking risk - then they won't. I think you're the gullible one here.Patrick said:
Currency is not a concern , we will be using the pound , our current and future currency. Only liars in Westminster try to make out different for the gullible.malcolmg said:
Isn't there a paradox here? Surely it is people like you who are confident Scotland will vote for independence who need to be concerned about what the bankers are saying. Only if Scotland votes no, does it become moot what might have been the currency arrangements.DecrepitJohnL said:
Ha Ha Ha , only dumb unionists could imagine that using Bankers would help them. Below scraping the barrel now, just how desperate can they get.malcolmg said:
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/referendum/article4161615.eceScott_P said:Two of the UK’s most experienced and formidable bankers have joined the independence debate to accuse Alex Salmond of deceiving Scots over currency union following a “yes” vote.
Sir Martin Jacomb, the former chairman of Prudential, and Sir Andrew Large, the former deputy governor of the Bank of England, claim in an article published in The Times today that the first minister is not being honest over what they say is the most important issue in the independence debate.
Such a hard-hitting intervention by two such senior figures will reopen the controversy over the currency options for an independent Scotland.
Patrick, you certainly make me laugh , hear no evil , see no evil and speak no evil. You talk about gullible and then serve up 3 of the biggest liars in the world. Are you seriously telling me that you believe a word that these losers utter. Get real.0 -
Well, remember it is in no-one's interests to sabotage an independent Scotland. It's not as if they are going to tow the country into the mid-Atlantic. Scotland will continue to use the Scottish pound, much as now, with a 1:1 exchange rate. Whether there is formal currency union, or none, or some sort of grand committee of the two nations, can be sorted out later.DecrepitJohnL said:
What about us not in Westminster who will vote against politicos who try and share our currency with a foreign country ?TGOHF said:
Currency is not a concern , we will be using the pound , our current and future currency. Only liars in Westminster try to make out different for the gullible.malcolmg said:
Isn't there a paradox here? Surely it is people like you who are confident Scotland will vote for independence who need to be concerned about what the bankers are saying. Only if Scotland votes no, does it become moot what might have been the currency arrangements.DecrepitJohnL said:
Ha Ha Ha , only dumb unionists could imagine that using Bankers would help them. Below scraping the barrel now, just how desperate can they get.malcolmg said:
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/referendum/article4161615.eceScott_P said:Two of the UK’s most experienced and formidable bankers have joined the independence debate to accuse Alex Salmond of deceiving Scots over currency union following a “yes” vote.
Sir Martin Jacomb, the former chairman of Prudential, and Sir Andrew Large, the former deputy governor of the Bank of England, claim in an article published in The Times today that the first minister is not being honest over what they say is the most important issue in the independence debate.
Such a hard-hitting intervention by two such senior figures will reopen the controversy over the currency options for an independent Scotland.
There is a world of difference between a formal arrangement whereby rUK shares its currency with a foreign nation (not going to happen) and an informal one where Scotland uses the rUK pound in the same way Panama uses the $. Eck has been promising a formal agrement that is not politically doable in the rUK. To my mind this is basically a lie to the Scottish electorate.0 -
There is a world of difference between a formal arrangement whereby rUK shares its currency with a foreign nation (not going to happen) and an informal one where Scotland uses the rUK pound in the same way Panama uses the $. Eck has been promising a formal agrement that is not politically doable in the rUK. To my mind this is basically a lie to the Scottish electorate.Patrick said:
sorted out later.DecrepitJohnL said:
What about us not in Westminster who will vote against politicos who try and share our currency with a foreign country ?TGOHF said:
Currency is not a concern , we will be using the pound , our current and future currency. Only liars in Westminster try to make out different for the gullible.malcolmg said:
Isn't there a paradox here? Surely it is people like you who are confident Scotland will vote for independence who need to be concerned about what the bankers are saying. Only if Scotland votes no, does it become moot what might have been the currency arrangements.DecrepitJohnL said:
Ha Ha Ha , only dumb unionists could imagine that using Bankers would help them. Below scraping the barrel now, just how desperate can they get.malcolmg said:
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/referendum/article4161615.eceScott_P said:Two of the UK’s most experienced and formidable bankers have joined the independence debate to accuse Alex Salmond of deceiving Scots over currency union following a “yes” vote.
Sir Martin Jacomb, the former chairman of Prudential, and Sir Andrew Large, the former deputy governor of the Bank of England, claim in an article published in The Times today that the first minister is not being honest over what they say is the most important issue in the independence debate.
Such a hard-hitting intervention by two such senior figures will reopen the controversy over the currency options for an independent Scotland.
Patrick, we will see who the liars are , past history tells us it is Westminster who have serial form on changing their minds when it suits. You are very easily taken in given past evidence. Salmond has promised nothing of the sort, he has said that the SNP if they are in government have the preferred option of currency union. One of several options but their preferred one.
Only the fools from Westminster have left themselves hostage to fortune by lying and stating there will not be a CU. Much bluster and lying will be required.0 -
Malc admitting dollarisation is the only option.0
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Dollarisation will see the end of Scottish bank notes - some independence.0
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MalcolmG
I agree with you wholeheartedly that politiicans are largely a bunch of lying, cheating, untrustworthy scumbags - to varying degrees. But what I also don't doubt is that they want to get elected. Or that the public losses / private gains element of banking is wildly unpopular. So....there is no doubt going to be a political / electoral driver to the currency endgame. The party that comes to rUK electorate / taxpayer saying 'I think it would be good for you to cover the risks of Scottish bank failure' is a brave one (in the Sir Humphey sense). There is no doubt that the moment a YES vote was announced that there would develop a them vs us mindset to the negotiations. It would be hugely in Scotland's interest to share a currency. It would be hugely not in rUK's interest to do so. Any feasible arrangement involving a shared currency would then necessarily involve a Westminster veto on Scottish tax and spending decisions - so not really 'indpendence' after all.0 -
Another day, another Culloden…0
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Well, remember it is in no-one's interests to sabotage an independent Scotland. It's not as if they are going to tow the country into the mid-Atlantic. Scotland will continue to use the Scottish pound, much as now, with a 1:1 exchange rate. Whether there is formal currency union, or none, or some sort of grand committee of the two nations, can be sorted out later.DecrepitJohnL said:
What about us not in Westminster who will vote against politicos who try and share our currency with a foreign country ?TGOHF said:
Currency is not a concern , we will be using the pound , our current and future currency. Only liars in Westminster try to make out different for the gullible.malcolmg said:
Isn't there a paradox here? Surely it is people like you who are confident Scotland will vote for independence who need to be concerned about what the bankers are saying. Only if Scotland votes no, does it become moot what might have been the currency arrangements.DecrepitJohnL said:
Ha Ha Ha , only dumb unionists could imagine that using Bankers would help them. Below scraping the barrel now, just how desperate can they get.malcolmg said:
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/referendum/article4161615.eceScott_P said:Two of the UK’s most experienced and formidable bankers have joined the independence debate to accuse Alex Salmond of deceiving Scots over currency union following a “yes” vote.
Sir Martin Jacomb, the former chairman of Prudential, and Sir Andrew Large, the former deputy governor of the Bank of England, claim in an article published in The Times today that the first minister is not being honest over what they say is the most important issue in the independence debate.
Such a hard-hitting intervention by two such senior figures will reopen the controversy over the currency options for an independent Scotland.
Absolutely - a likely outcome if Scotland votes yes - only it means handing control over the currency to the UK - interest rates, money supply, etc, etc. Quite difficult to call that any kind of meaningful independence.0 -
New thread.0
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It is obvious that Scottish independence would be a major blow to one of our largest industries and major employers. Being a part of a much larger economic unit has allowed our financial services to grow multiple times beyond what would be sustainable in an independent country.
But if you were trying your absolute hardest to maximise that damage you would choose a situation where we continued to use Sterling without a lender of last resort or the cover of London based financial regulation. I simply do not see how any financial service provider bigger than a local savings bank could survive in such a scenario.
A Scottish pound tied, for at least for a preliminary period, to sterling would make much more sense. Our financial services industry would still need to shrink by about 80% but the job implications of this would be in the thousands rather than the tens of thousands as the major banks, Standard Life, Scottish Widows and some others took their registration (and of course their tax base) south but much of their back office remained and in all likelihood some smaller players establishing "offshore" took their place.
The truth is that the SNP decided that their policy was to try to sell Independence as not very different at all and keeping the currency was a key plank of that. So far as can be ascertained the economic implications of the policy were not considered at all.
Last night we even had the truly bizarre position of Pete Wishart MP and several other SNP worthies explaining how they were voting yes but how they treasured their Britishness which would not be affected!0 -
They will get elected in 2015 and park the issue till next time , be sure of it. It will not involve any Westminster veto either, it will mean rules that both agree to on spending limits , not exactly a bad thing. All other powers that are currently with Westminster will be available so it is real independence after all.Patrick said:MalcolmG
I agree with you wholeheartedly that politiicans are largely a bunch of lying, cheating, untrustworthy scumbags - to varying degrees. But what I also don't doubt is that they want to get elected. Or that the public losses / private gains element of banking is wildly unpopular. So....there is no doubt going to be a political / electoral driver to the currency endgame. The party that comes to rUK electorate / taxpayer saying 'I think it would be good for you to cover the risks of Scottish bank failure' is a brave one (in the Sir Humphey sense). There is no doubt that the moment a YES vote was announced that there would develop a them vs us mindset to the negotiations. It would be hugely in Scotland's interest to share a currency. It would be hugely not in rUK's interest to do so. Any feasible arrangement involving a shared currency would then necessarily involve a Westminster veto on Scottish tax and spending decisions - so not really 'indpendence' after all.0
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