The key driver of the Brexit vote cannot be dismissed as an embittered aide – politicalbetting.com

SandyRentool said:

HYUFD said:

Closer with Survation tonight

Tories 39%
Labour 35%
LDs 11%

https://twitter.com/Survation/status/1417559489700630541?s=20

Everything moving away from Bozo and the Tories. Good.

MarqueeMark said:

nico679 said:

A really excellent interview by Laura Kuennsberg. I wasn’t expecting it to be this good . I think we should all breathe a sigh of relief that Cummings is no longer at no 10 so thanks Carrie . The bumbling fool remains there but at least isn’t now the puppet of Cummings who is a deeply dangerous individual .

Cummings' hatred for Carrie is perhaps the most visceral thing at play in domestic politics today.

williamglenn said:

+18,181 cases in France and +27,286 cases in Spain.

Leon said:

williamglenn said:

+18,181 cases in France and +27,286 cases in Spain.

Not exactly a surprise. They've got Delta. This is what Delta does

Leon said:

MarqueeMark said:

nico679 said:

A really excellent interview by Laura Kuennsberg. I wasn’t expecting it to be this good . I think we should all breathe a sigh of relief that Cummings is no longer at no 10 so thanks Carrie . The bumbling fool remains there but at least isn’t now the puppet of Cummings who is a deeply dangerous individual .

Cummings' hatred for Carrie is perhaps the most visceral thing at play in domestic politics today.

A lover spurned?

There's no such rage as love to hatred turned

Leon said:

MarqueeMark said:

nico679 said:

A really excellent interview by Laura Kuennsberg. I wasn’t expecting it to be this good . I think we should all breathe a sigh of relief that Cummings is no longer at no 10 so thanks Carrie . The bumbling fool remains there but at least isn’t now the puppet of Cummings who is a deeply dangerous individual .

Cummings' hatred for Carrie is perhaps the most visceral thing at play in domestic politics today.

A lover spurned?

There's no such rage as love to hatred turned

Leon said:

williamglenn said:

+18,181 cases in France and +27,286 cases in Spain.

Not exactly a surprise. They've got Delta. This is what Delta does

HYUFD said:

Closer with Survation tonight

Tories 39%
Labour 35%
LDs 11%

https://twitter.com/Survation/status/1417559489700630541?s=20

MikeSmithson said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

SandyRentool said:

HYUFD said:

Closer with Survation tonight

Tories 39%
Labour 35%
LDs 11%

https://twitter.com/Survation/status/1417559489700630541?s=20

Everything moving away from Bozo and the Tories. Good.

You realise all the other recent polls show movement in the other direction.....

All?

IanB2 said:

Leon said:

solarflare said:

Leon said:

Maffew said:

Leon said:

MaxPB said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

MaxPB said:

Leon said:

MaxPB said:

Leon said:

MaxPB said:

Leon said:

Andy_JS said:

Leon said:

I am now able to report from the Covid Freedom Day Front Line AKA the gastropubs of Highgate

Verdict: a disappointing lack of jubilation, or, indeed, Freedom. You weren't allowed to order at the bar, you had to check in at the door, the staff were mostly wearing masks, it was table service only

Almost nothing has changed

Indeed I've just been out shopping in Camden and if anything there seem to be MORE masks, people look even more nervous. for the first time ever I saw someone wearing the full Covid monty: mask, visor and disposable blue nitrile gloves WHILE WALKING DOWN THE STREET

Have we terrified humanity - or at least the British part of it - into some ridiculous, unnecessary dystopia?

Maybe you could do another report from a working-class area to see if there any differences. Basildon or Harlow for example.

Camden - down by the Tube - really isn't posh in any sense. It is all of humankind, rich, poor, middling, homeless, trustafarian, Muslim, atheist, Goth, emo, Gen X Gen Z Gen Lambda, 50-something flint knappers buying laksa ingredients

This is a big reason I am attached to it, I like the grittiness and the melee (tho I am glad I live at the slightly posher end, we are all human)

So Camden is probably quite representative - at least of London as a whole (and Highgate felt very similar). Dunno about the UK

I used to agree about Camden. Then the Monarch closed down, just the latest "gritty" late night bar to close and be replaced with yet another wanky cocktail bar. It's become as sterile as the places it used to mock. Sadly there aren't many places left in London that capture the essence of what the city used to be, maybe the Queen's Crescent area of Kentish Town and a few bits of Archway still have some of the magic but London is over.

On bad days I agree with you. I wonder if London can recover from Covid (and everything else)

But then you get a sunny day and the parks fill up and the beer gardens sing and there is, still, a distinct and glorious energy, perhaps made bubblier by the toughness of the times. And it is a very contemporary London energy, not like Paris or NYC or LA

When I am not fretting about all the closed restaurants and bars (and they are worrying) I've also noticed that London literally seems younger, after Covid. The average age on the street and in the shops is down about 5 years. The kidz have taken over. I can see why - the old have fled or are hiding, the middle aged are working from home - and hiding - it will be fascinating to see where it goes from here.

Is London Rome in 440AD? Or Paris in 1944?

I think part of the issue is that the next generation coming up is so much more sterile than mine was. I was talking to a guy selling us some mandy pre-lockdown and he said that his walk ups are predominantly over 30 and he struggles to get under 30s to buy any kind of party drugs because they're all too concerned with health and other such inanities. I expect after COVID it will just get worse.

Who in the next generation is going to do a line of charlie and become a complete c*** to their mates and everyone around them? Those experiences just won't happen now but it's part of growing up and the next generation is just completely missing out because they've become conditioned by social media and influencers that being anything than 100% straight up will be a disaster.

Even outside of that stuff I just think London is becoming a shadow of it's former self and I say that as someone who has just spent a 7 figure number buying a house here.

Some truth in that

The Boris-hating waitress in my Highgate pub said she hated Boris because "my Mum does". I put it to her that she should be rebellious, at her age, not just following her Mum's opinions and she looked utterly bewildered at this concept and she said "oh, No, my Mum would kill me"

The under 30s are a notably conformative and censorious bunch, especially by the standards of my generation, which was outrageously misbehaved. And still is, at times. Ahem

But then, my cohort had it so much easier. Student GRANTS, cheaper property, lad magazines, sex everywhere, exciting new drugs, a permissive society, no apocalyptic worries about climate change and all that, and, maybe most importantly, no social media to cancel us (and Jeez, we would have been cancelled a thousand times a year for some of the shit we did)

So I also have sympathies for the young. They are forced to be dull, it's not their choice. But they ARE rather dull

And now I am definitely walking. A bientot

Yeah I definitely get that their dullness is partly because of the situation they're in wrt the future being so much more difficult for them than even my generation who are now all finally getting on the property ladder (at least my friends are).

I was in the final yea own way and as I said, very good looking.

Very good looking people are frequently boring, for obvious reasons. Also, she may be getting creepy older guy vibes off you and looking at her phone to make you go away!

She's very interesting once she's put her phone away. On the latter I can only give you a virtual eyeroll, but would do it in person if I could.

Why is misbehavitories?

Am I misunderstanding or are you saying you were so drunk you got in your car and drove it straight through a vineyard? Call me a stodgy young person but driving while that drunk, if I haven't misunderstood, is not at all funny.

Kids today


To explain what happened, for various reasons - some quite startling, but too elaborate to detail - I was five hours late for the appointed wine tasting.

By the time I got to this Spanish finca it was tapas hour and everyone was actually guzzling the wine not just tasting. It was really great wine, and food, and everyone was jolly and then I realised, Fuck, I am completely drunk, how do I get my car and bags and self to my hotel over the hill, I can't drive I'm sozzled

But the friendly Spanish hosts said Oh don't worry it's a short little drive you can't hurt anyone, it's one minute

I stumbled out into the sweet warm evening, and looked around, quite confused, as there was no obvious "one minute shortcut" to my hotel

But there was a sort of "parting" in the vineyards. So I decided that must be it and I made a bee line for that in my car, and by the time vines were snapping underneath me it was too late so I bravely soldiered on, drove over a hedge, pushed through a few olive groves and approached my hotel across the garden

Then I immediately fell asleep

Next day I felt quite sheepish. And left early. After scraping the grapes off the car

I was waiting for a stinging email but when it arrived it said We had a very nice time, hope you did - and did not mention me driving through their vineyard at night. Either they did not notice, or they did notice and they are incredibly polite, or they get people doing this all the time? But if that's the case they should build a road, frankly

Perhaps they rely on the tourists to keep the shortcut through the vineyard reasonably well trampled...

Interestingly, when I first told this story, quite recently (this only happened a few weeks back) I told it just as a peculiar anecdote, a Whoah What Happened There thing

But it got a big laugh, and I realised people found it funny

Which is kinda my point: we find bad behaviour amusing. Why? One key thing is that you have to get away with it. If a story of roguish idiocy ends with you being carted off to jail, then no one laughs. But if you escape any repercussions, that can be funny

It's like movies and dramas that glorify criminals - you want to see them get away with it, sticking it to The Man

eg I bet Dick Turpin was in reality a foul-mouthed, violent hoodlum, but we love his story because he evades capture and gets away with it (at first)

To bring this back to politics, this is surely part of Boris' debatable "charm". He drives across the vineyard of normal behaviour, and reverses into the olive grove of public opinion. Some find this amusing and ilkeable. Not all, by any means, but enough to sustain his popularity and polling

Lmao.

Johnson incessantly tries to invite us to compare himself to Churchill, despite even many of his supporters being able to see that he isn’t even in the same league.

So now you’re inviting us to compare yourself with Johnson….

Roger said:

What kind of a clown can answer Cummings by saying "What We Intend To Do Is Build Back Better"!

'Moron' flatters him

Alistair said:

JFC, 20cm of rain in 1 hour

https://twitter.com/RitaBai/status/1417500299669868544?s=19

MaxPB said:

stjohn said:

Roger said:

What kind of a clown can answer Cummings by saying "What We Intend To Do Is Build Back Better"!

'Moron' flatters him

Roger. I completely agree. A cringe inducing response from Boris' team.

I thought it was a good interview. I like Laura Kuenssberg and have done for a while. I've not been brave enough to admit this before! She is regularly accused of being Boris' puppet, I think, but the Cummings interview hardly fits that characterisation.

I've also watched the odd Brexitcast and Newscast programme and, maybe I'm naive, but I've found all the journalists on there quite engaging and surprisingly open and relaxed. OK, they don't tell us what they can't or won't tell us.

No, she was regularly accused of being Dom's puppet, something this interview has done nothing to dispel.

Alistair said:

JFC, 20cm of rain in 1 hour

https://twitter.com/RitaBai/status/1417500299669868544?s=19

MaxPB said:

HYUFD said:

Closer with Survation tonight

Tories 39%
Labour 35%
LDs 11%

https://twitter.com/Survation/status/1417559489700630541?s=20

Oh good. But it feels like an outlier given the other polls. We've been here before and it wasn't sustained.

tlg86 said:

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/12040/12360071/arsenals-pre-season-tour-of-usa-cancelled-over-coronavirus-cases-in-travelling-group

A number of positive cases in the squad has disrupted manager Mikel Arteta's preparations for the new Premier League season, which gets underway at Brentford on August 13; Arsenal were set to participate in the Florida Cup, alongside Everton, Inter Milan, and Colombian side Millonarios.

WhisperingOracle said:

Re; the Lib Dem poll boost, stories like this one aren't helping the government with that support, and Starmer is beginning to be identified by some as a Blair-like figure who's quiet on civil liberties, in the hope of triangulating.

Journalists could face prison sentences of up to 14 years for stories that embarrass the Government under plans to reform the Official Secrets Act

@DailyMailUK

https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1417508266616266755

FrancisUrquhart said:

HYUFD said:

Closer with Survation tonight

Tories 39%
Labour 35%
LDs 11%

https://twitter.com/Survation/status/1417559489700630541?s=20

Interesting labour and lib dems managing better numbers. Normally it is one or the other.

DecrepiterJohnL said:

WhisperingOracle said:

Re; the Lib Dem poll boost, stories like this one aren't helping the government with that support, and Starmer is beginning to be identified by some as a Blair-like figure who's quiet on civil liberties, in the hope of triangulating.

Journalists could face prison sentences of up to 14 years for stories that embarrass the Government under plans to reform the Official Secrets Act

@DailyMailUK

https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1417508266616266755

Leaked secrets that embarrass the government: Matt Hancock; expenses; the PM's a shopping trolley.

MaxPB said:

stjohn said:

Roger said:

What kind of a clown can answer Cummings by saying "What We Intend To Do Is Build Back Better"!

'Moron' flatters him

Roger. I completely agree. A cringe inducing response from Boris' team.

I thought it was a good interview. I like Laura Kuenssberg and have done for a while. I've not been brave enough to admit this before! She is regularly accused of being Boris' puppet, I think, but the Cummings interview hardly fits that characterisation.

I've also watched the odd Brexitcast and Newscast programme and, maybe I'm naive, but I've found all the journalists on there quite engaging and surprisingly open and relaxed. OK, they don't tell us what they can't or won't tell us.

No, she was regularly accused of being Dom's puppet, something this interview has done nothing to dispel.

alex_ said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

WhisperingOracle said:

Re; the Lib Dem poll boost, stories like this one aren't helping the government with that support, and Starmer is beginning to be identified by some as a Blair-like figure who's quiet on civil liberties, in the hope of triangulating.

Journalists could face prison sentences of up to 14 years for stories that embarrass the Government under plans to reform the Official Secrets Act

@DailyMailUK

https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1417508266616266755

Leaked secrets that embarrass the government: Matt Hancock; expenses; the PM's a shopping trolley.

Does the phrase, "have no defence in law" actually mean anything any more after that Xtinction Rebellion case? The judge told the jury the defendants had no defence in law, and they acquitted them anyway?

ydoethur said:

RochdalePioneers said:

ydoethur said:

RochdalePioneers said:

The point about Cummings is that if he pulls the evidence out to back up the fruitier claims - and so far he has - you can call him whatever names you like. It isn't going to be Cummings word hanging the Clown, it will be his own

The problem is you can’t trust his evidence, because he’s a well-known forger as well as a liar.

Hes forged the WhatsApp and texts? So why haven't Number 10 destroyed them and him...?

Everything he says about Johnson, Mancock et al is true and he has the evidence to prove it.

Dead easy to do, unfortunately. All you need is a phone with the date and time manually altered.

But proving something like that to be a forgery is less easy. You would have to show they couldn’t have been sent.

Anyone who trusts Cummings is a fool, I am afraid. He’s repeatedly proven he would make Goebbels look positively honest. At least Goebbels didn’t falsify his own backstory.*

*I’m not going bail for Hitler or Himmler there.

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

alex_ said:

Leon said:

Something very odd in the European data

France: 18,000 cases

Spain: 27,000 cases

Germany: er, 633 cases


Either they have rebuilt the Maginot line in reverse, and done it so well they can keep out microbes, or the Germans are seriously under-testing... or something else?

Or there are no English people travelling to Germany (remember they have (/had?) a quarantine in place. So the pace of spread is currently very slow. Whether it will rapidly pick up via Spain and France in a few weeks...

But the Brits and Germans have been mixing freely in Spain for weeks (I witnessed it in Majorca)

The German numbers do not make sense

Sure they do.

Like everything in this pandemic, it just takes some time for things to be reflected in the numbers. Let's say 100 Germans come back from Spain having caught Covid from Brits. Most of them probably will be young and won't have had positive tests before travelling back. If they have only mild symptoms, then it almost certainly won't show up in the figures.

But three weeks later, that 100 has become 500, and there has been some more seeding, and numbers are rising fast.

A month later, and there are 20,000 cases in Germany.

Mexicanpete said:

ydoethur said:

RochdalePioneers said:

ydoethur said:

RochdalePioneers said:

The point about Cummings is that if he pulls the evidence out to back up the fruitier claims - and so far he has - you can call him whatever names you like. It isn't going to be Cummings word hanging the Clown, it will be his own

The problem is you can’t trust his evidence, because he’s a well-known forger as well as a liar.

Hes forged the WhatsApp and texts? So why haven't Number 10 destroyed them and him...?

Everything he says about Johnson, Mancock et al is true and he has the evidence to prove it.

Dead easy to do, unfortunately. All you need is a phone with the date and time manually altered.

But proving something like that to be a forgery is less easy. You would have to show they couldn’t have been sent.

Anyone who trusts Cummings is a fool, I am afraid. He’s repeatedly proven he would make Goebbels look positively honest. At least Goebbels didn’t falsify his own backstory.*

*I’m not going bail for Hitler or Himmler there.

Cummings is an absolute charlatan, and I say that as a disappointed former Remainer whose future has been directly affected by Cummings's foolish 1950s fantasy. Nonetheless the target of his current ire is also an absolute charlatan whose naked ambition, facilitated by someone else's 1950s fantasy has ruined my future plans.

Both are unreliable b***ards,. Who to believe?

P.S. Clue: it's not Johnson

Leon said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

alex_ said:

Leon said:

Something very odd in the European data

France: 18,000 cases

Spain: 27,000 cases

Germany: er, 633 cases


Either they have rebuilt the Maginot line in reverse, and done it so well they can keep out microbes, or the Germans are seriously under-testing... or something else?

Or there are no English people travelling to Germany (remember they have (/had?) a quarantine in place. So the pace of spread is currently very slow. Whether it will rapidly pick up via Spain and France in a few weeks...

But the Brits and Germans have been mixing freely in Spain for weeks (I witnessed it in Majorca)

The German numbers do not make sense

Sure they do.

Like everything in this pandemic, it just takes some time for things to be reflected in the numbers. Let's say 100 Germans come back from Spain having caught Covid from Brits. Most of them probably will be young and won't have had positive tests before travelling back. If they have only mild symptoms, then it almost certainly won't show up in the figures.

But three weeks later, that 100 has become 500, and there has been some more seeding, and numbers are rising fast.

A month later, and there are 20,000 cases in Germany.

But they don't make sense because Germany's near neighbours all have big figures

eg Netherlands. Culturally very similar to Germany, shares a long open border with Germany, should not be any different to Germany, yet the Netherlands has been reporting big daily cases for a while - today it's 6,700, recently it's been over 10,000 a day

Germany, which is five times bigger than Holland, is experiencing ten times fewer cases?

That's an enormous discrepancy. I don't believe it. There is Something Going On

Casino_Royale said:

I think Cummings secretly hates himself.

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Leon said:

Asia is quite concerning now


Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia, all heading into big new waves. Indonesia reporting 1,200 dead today. Feck


Meanwhile the Guardian reports that the real death toll in India is 4 MILLION - ie ten times the official death toll, which confirms the most appalling estimates, which were sometimes dismissed as scare-mongering

If India alone has actually suffered 4 million dead so far, then what is the true global total? 15 million? 20 million? And how high might it go?

Covid is already one of the worst pandemics in all human history

Spanish Flu killed 17-18 million in India.

"In his memoirs the Hindi poet, Suryakant Tripathi, wrote "Ganga was swollen with dead bodies." The sanitary commissioner's report for 1918 also noted that all rivers across India were clogged up with bodies,[12] because of a shortage of firewood for cremation.[15]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_flu_pandemic_in_India

Casino_Royale said:

I think Cummings secretly hates himself.

Foxy said:

HYUFD said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Gallowgate said:

HYUFD said:

Philip_Thompson said:

HYUFD said:

Philip_Thompson said:

HYUFD said:

Philip_Thompson said:

HYUFD said:

Philip_Thompson said:

HYUFD said:

57% support increasing NI to pay for social care, including 82% of over 65s and 63% of 50-65s

https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1417517568257101824

82% of over-65s support a tax increase that is only paid by under-65s, in order to provide more funding to over 65s?

Well blow me down with a feather!

There is no greater love than this: that a person would rob his grandchildren for the sake of himself.

The grandchildren will still inherit the house ultimately if no dementia tax

So the grandchildren should be facing even more taxes while struggling to raise a deposit to pay for their own home, or to pay to put food on the table for their own children, in the hopes that in a few decades their own parents die and can have an inheritance? 🤔

You're perverted if you think that's right.

Grandparents and parents can help with a deposit too and of course the NI the young and middle aged pay will fund the social care many of them will get when they get to old age.

I am a Tory and a conservative and not a liberal like you as I believe in family and preserving assets in the family

You believe in robbing the working in order to preserve assets for those who could pay for their own care but would rather not.

If punishing people who work in order to protect the wealth of the elite is your version of "conservativism" then I want nothing to do with it.

I believe in preserving capital from excess tax as a Tory yes not just income, I am not a liberal like you who favours taxing capital over income and nor am I a socialist who favours heavily taxing both.

Plus NI was set up originally to partly fund healthcare anyway.

As you are a liberal not a conservative you are quite welcome to go to the LDs, would not bother me at all if you did

I never said tax capital, did I? People paying for their own requirements with their own capital isn't a tax.

Besides what I said is I think it is unacceptable to have a tax that is levied on some people's income but not others, that is then used to bribe the voters who don't pay the tax on their incomes. If you want to see this tax raised to bribe voters then make sure the bribed voters have to pay for the tax themselves.

Remove the age-related exemption to NI so NI is paid in full by over 65s and see if they still want to see NI raised. If they do, fair enough, increase it to 13% and charge 13% on pension etc income too just like work-related incomes pay. If they don't, then levying the tax on the workers is not OK to provide more benefits to pensioners.

It is a tax, it is forcing your family to sell the family home on your death and give the proceeds of sale to the government to fund the care you received in your own home.

In any case it is not pensioners who would benefit from inheriting their family home, it is their middle aged children and ultimately their grandchildren over time, so it is right they should pay most of the NI therefore for their parents social care

Lol. Toryism is apparently having the state pay for your social care. “Tax” my arse.

Its having the state pay for your social care in order to protect his inheritance.

Toryism has always been about protecting your inheritance and family estates in large part, it was the Tories of course who were originally the party of the landed gentry, the Whigs then Liberals the party of the merchant class and then the Labour Party until recently the party of the working class (now the party of the public sector and the youngest voters)

Yes, I think that correct. Toryism has always been about protecting privilege, financial, status and generational. Usually it has done this by buying off enough aspirational middle class.

It is why the redistributive pork barrelling of its newly acquired working class vote may well run into problems.

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

alex_ said:

Leon said:

Something very odd in the European data

France: 18,000 cases

Spain: 27,000 cases

Germany: er, 633 cases


Either they have rebuilt the Maginot line in reverse, and done it so well they can keep out microbes, or the Germans are seriously under-testing... or something else?

Or there are no English people travelling to Germany (remember they have (/had?) a quarantine in place. So the pace of spread is currently very slow. Whether it will rapidly pick up via Spain and France in a few weeks...

But the Brits and Germans have been mixing freely in Spain for weeks (I witnessed it in Majorca)

The German numbers do not make sense

Sure they do.

Like everything in this pandemic, it just takes some time for things to be reflected in the numbers. Let's say 100 Germans come back from Spain having caught Covid from Brits. Most of them probably will be young and won't have had positive tests before travelling back. If they have only mild symptoms, then it almost certainly won't show up in the figures.

But three weeks later, that 100 has become 500, and there has been some more seeding, and numbers are rising fast.

A month later, and there are 20,000 cases in Germany.

But they don't make sense because Germany's near neighbours all have big figures

eg Netherlands. Culturally very similar to Germany, shares a long open border with Germany, should not be any different to Germany, yet the Netherlands has been reporting big daily cases for a while - today it's 6,700, recently it's been over 10,000 a day

Germany, which is five times bigger than Holland, is experiencing ten times fewer cases?

That's an enormous discrepancy. I don't believe it. There is Something Going On

But that happens in the US too. Or in Europe before Christmas when Belgium was Covid central and it's neighbours were (temporarily) smugly superior.

Now the same broad trends that happened in the Netherlands, Spain, etc. will apply to Germany - just a little while later - so in six weeks time, Germany will have 20,000 cases a day.

Throughout this pandemic, people have had a tendency to imagine luck (or bad luck) is a sign of something mysterious. It's not. It's just luck.

Casino_Royale said:

Foxy said:

HYUFD said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Gallowgate said:

HYUFD said:

Philip_Thompson said:

HYUFD said:

Philip_Thompson said:

HYUFD said:

Philip_Thompson said:

HYUFD said:

Philip_Thompson said:

HYUFD said:

57% support increasing NI to pay for social care, including 82% of over 65s and 63% of 50-65s

https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1417517568257101824

82% of over-65s support a tax increase that is only paid by under-65s, in order to provide more funding to over 65s?

Well blow me down with a feather!

There is no greater love than this: that a person would rob his grandchildren for the sake of himself.

The grandchildren will still inherit the house ultimately if no dementia tax

So the grandchildren should be facing even more taxes while struggling to raise a deposit to pay for their own home, or to pay to put food on the table for their own children, in the hopes that in a few decades their own parents die and can have an inheritance? 🤔

You're perverted if you think that's right.

Grandparents and parents can help with a deposit too and of course the NI the young and middle aged pay will fund the social care many of them will get when they get to old age.

I am a Tory and a conservative and not a liberal like you as I believe in family and preserving assets in the family

You believe in robbing the working in order to preserve assets for those who could pay for their own care but would rather not.

If punishing people who work in order to protect the wealth of the elite is your version of "conservativism" then I want nothing to do with it.

I believe in preserving capital from excess tax as a Tory yes not just income, I am not a liberal like you who favours taxing capital over income and nor am I a socialist who favours heavily taxing both.

Plus NI was set up originally to partly fund healthcare anyway.

As you are a liberal not a conservative you are quite welcome to go to the LDs, would not bother me at all if you did

I never said tax capital, did I? People paying for their own requirements with their own capital isn't a tax.

Besides what I said is I think it is unacceptable to have a tax that is levied on some people's income but not others, that is then used to bribe the voters who don't pay the tax on their incomes. If you want to see this tax raised to bribe voters then make sure the bribed voters have to pay for the tax themselves.

Remove the age-related exemption to NI so NI is paid in full by over 65s and see if they still want to see NI raised. If they do, fair enough, increase it to 13% and charge 13% on pension etc income too just like work-related incomes pay. If they don't, then levying the tax on the workers is not OK to provide more benefits to pensioners.

It is a tax, it is forcing your family to sell the family home on your death and give the proceeds of sale to the government to fund the care you received in your own home.

In any case it is not pensioners who would benefit from inheriting their family home, it is their middle aged children and ultimately their grandchildren over time, so it is right they should pay most of the NI therefore for their parents social care

Lol. Toryism is apparently having the state pay for your social care. “Tax” my arse.

Its having the state pay for your social care in order to protect his inheritance.

Toryism has always been about protecting your inheritance and family estates in large part, it was the Tories of course who were originally the party of the landed gentry, the Whigs then Liberals the party of the merchant class and then the Labour Party until recently the party of the working class (now the party of the public sector and the youngest voters)

Yes, I think that correct. Toryism has always been about protecting privilege, financial, status and generational. Usually it has done this by buying off enough aspirational middle class.

It is why the redistributive pork barrelling of its newly acquired working class vote may well run into problems.

It's not about that actually, it's about scepticism towards change.

There's a critical role for that in our political system because otherwise progressives would have no counterweight; they'd try to blow up everything with radical change rooted in the latest ideologies, some of which would be mad, and society would splinter and be at each others' throats.

Conservatives recognise that gradual change is preferable, so bad ideas can be filtered out and complex ones mitigated, as society can then remain stable and thus the economy can safely grow.

ydoethur said:

Carnyx said:

ydoethur said:

Foxy said:

ydoethur said:

Foxy said:

ydoethur said:

kle4 said:

So is the Bezos story better than the Branson story?

Well, they were both somewhat disappointing as both appear to have returned to Earth rather than taking advantage of the opportunity to return head off to another planet.

What was it about Bezos that put him in the bellend of a giant phallus? 🤔

Hmmm...that’s a hard one.

At least he came to a happy ending.

They should have landed in the same place as Yuri Gargarin.

Then it would be seamen at the end of the penis’ lift off.

Point of order: it was peasants at the end of Yuri Gagarin's flight. It was the Yank astronauts who had the joy of a matelots' welcome (after the chimps before them, admittedly).

Bollocks. That ruins that joke.

Foxy said:

Casino_Royale said:

Foxy said:

HYUFD said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Gallowgate said:

HYUFD said:

Philip_Thompson said:

HYUFD said:

Philip_Thompson said:

HYUFD said:

Philip_Thompson said:

HYUFD said:

Philip_Thompson said:

HYUFD said:

57% support increasing NI to pay for social care, including 82% of over 65s and 63% of 50-65s

https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1417517568257101824

82% of over-65s support a tax increase that is only paid by under-65s, in order to provide more funding to over 65s?

Well blow me down with a feather!

There is no greater love than this: that a person would rob his grandchildren for the sake of himself.

The grandchildren will still inherit the house ultimately if no dementia tax

So the grandchildren should be facing even more taxes while struggling to raise a deposit to pay for their own home, or to pay to put food on the table for their own children, in the hopes that in a few decades their own parents die and can have an inheritance? 🤔

You're perverted if you think that's right.

Grandparents and parents can help with a deposit too and of course the NI the young and middle aged pay will fund the social care many of them will get when they get to old age.

I am a Tory and a conservative and not a liberal like you as I believe in family and preserving assets in the family

You believe in robbing the working in order to preserve assets for those who could pay for their own care but would rather not.

If punishing people who work in order to protect the wealth of the elite is your version of "conservativism" then I want nothing to do with it.

I believe in preserving capital from excess tax as a Tory yes not just income, I am not a liberal like you who favours taxing capital over income and nor am I a socialist who favours heavily taxing both.

Plus NI was set up originally to partly fund healthcare anyway.

As you are a liberal not a conservative you are quite welcome to go to the LDs, would not bother me at all if you did

I never said tax capital, did I? People paying for their own requirements with their own capital isn't a tax.

Besides what I said is I think it is unacceptable to have a tax that is levied on some people's income but not others, that is then used to bribe the voters who don't pay the tax on their incomes. If you want to see this tax raised to bribe voters then make sure the bribed voters have to pay for the tax themselves.

Remove the age-related exemption to NI so NI is paid in full by over 65s and see if they still want to see NI raised. If they do, fair enough, increase it to 13% and charge 13% on pension etc income too just like work-related incomes pay. If they don't, then levying the tax on the workers is not OK to provide more benefits to pensioners.

It is a tax, it is forcing your family to sell the family home on your death and give the proceeds of sale to the government to fund the care you received in your own home.

In any case it is not pensioners who would benefit from inheriting their family home, it is their middle aged children and ultimately their grandchildren over time, so it is right they should pay most of the NI therefore for their parents social care

Lol. Toryism is apparently having the state pay for your social care. “Tax” my arse.

Its having the state pay for your social care in order to protect his inheritance.

Toryism has always been about protecting your inheritance and family estates in large part, it was the Tories of course who were originally the party of the landed gentry, the Whigs then Liberals the party of the merchant class and then the Labour Party until recently the party of the working class (now the party of the public sector and the youngest voters)

Yes, I think that correct. Toryism has always been about protecting privilege, financial, status and generational. Usually it has done this by buying off enough aspirational middle class.

It is why the redistributive pork barrelling of its newly acquired working class vote may well run into problems.

It's not about that actually, it's about scepticism towards change.

There's a critical role for that in our political system because otherwise progressives would have no counterweight; they'd try to blow up everything with radical change rooted in the latest ideologies, some of which would be mad, and society would splinter and be at each others' throats.

Conservatives recognise that gradual change is preferable, so bad ideas can be filtered out and complex ones mitigated, as society can then remain stable and thus the economy can safely grow.

I think that much the same. Conservatives like the established privileges and don't want to see them changed.

Casino_Royale said:

Leon said:

Asia is quite concerning now


Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia, all heading into big new waves. Indonesia reporting 1,200 dead today. Feck


Meanwhile the Guardian reports that the real death toll in India is 4 MILLION - ie ten times the official death toll, which confirms the most appalling estimates, which were sometimes dismissed as scare-mongering

If India alone has actually suffered 4 million dead so far, then what is the true global total? 15 million? 20 million? And how high might it go?

Covid is already one of the worst pandemics in all human history

The Telegraph says up to 5 million.

Casino_Royale said:

Leon said:

Asia is quite concerning now


Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia, all heading into big new waves. Indonesia reporting 1,200 dead today. Feck


Meanwhile the Guardian reports that the real death toll in India is 4 MILLION - ie ten times the official death toll, which confirms the most appalling estimates, which were sometimes dismissed as scare-mongering

If India alone has actually suffered 4 million dead so far, then what is the true global total? 15 million? 20 million? And how high might it go?

Covid is already one of the worst pandemics in all human history

The Telegraph says up to 5 million.

Casino_Royale said:

Leon said:

Asia is quite concerning now


Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia, all heading into big new waves. Indonesia reporting 1,200 dead today. Feck


Meanwhile the Guardian reports that the real death toll in India is 4 MILLION - ie ten times the official death toll, which confirms the most appalling estimates, which were sometimes dismissed as scare-mongering

If India alone has actually suffered 4 million dead so far, then what is the true global total? 15 million? 20 million? And how high might it go?

Covid is already one of the worst pandemics in all human history

The Telegraph says up to 5 million.

Casino_Royale said:

Foxy said:

Casino_Royale said:

Foxy said:

HYUFD said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Gallowgate said:

HYUFD said:

Philip_Thompson said:

HYUFD said:

Philip_Thompson said:

HYUFD said:

Philip_Thompson said:

HYUFD said:

Philip_Thompson said:

HYUFD said:

57% support increasing NI to pay for social care, including 82% of over 65s and 63% of 50-65s

https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1417517568257101824

82% of over-65s support a tax increase that is only paid by under-65s, in order to provide more funding to over 65s?

Well blow me down with a feather!

There is no greater love than this: that a person would rob his grandchildren for the sake of himself.

The grandchildren will still inherit the house ultimately if no dementia tax

So the grandchildren should be facing even more taxes while struggling to raise a deposit to pay for their own home, or to pay to put food on the table for their own children, in the hopes that in a few decades their own parents die and can have an inheritance? 🤔

You're perverted if you think that's right.

Grandparents and parents can help with a deposit too and of course the NI the young and middle aged pay will fund the social care many of them will get when they get to old age.

I am a Tory and a conservative and not a liberal like you as I believe in family and preserving assets in the family

You believe in robbing the working in order to preserve assets for those who could pay for their own care but would rather not.

If punishing people who work in order to protect the wealth of the elite is your version of "conservativism" then I want nothing to do with it.

I believe in preserving capital from excess tax as a Tory yes not just income, I am not a liberal like you who favours taxing capital over income and nor am I a socialist who favours heavily taxing both.

Plus NI was set up originally to partly fund healthcare anyway.

As you are a liberal not a conservative you are quite welcome to go to the LDs, would not bother me at all if you did

I never said tax capital, did I? People paying for their own requirements with their own capital isn't a tax.

Besides what I said is I think it is unacceptable to have a tax that is levied on some people's income but not others, that is then used to bribe the voters who don't pay the tax on their incomes. If you want to see this tax raised to bribe voters then make sure the bribed voters have to pay for the tax themselves.

Remove the age-related exemption to NI so NI is paid in full by over 65s and see if they still want to see NI raised. If they do, fair enough, increase it to 13% and charge 13% on pension etc income too just like work-related incomes pay. If they don't, then levying the tax on the workers is not OK to provide more benefits to pensioners.

It is a tax, it is forcing your family to sell the family home on your death and give the proceeds of sale to the government to fund the care you received in your own home.

In any case it is not pensioners who would benefit from inheriting their family home, it is their middle aged children and ultimately their grandchildren over time, so it is right they should pay most of the NI therefore for their parents social care

Lol. Toryism is apparently having the state pay for your social care. “Tax” my arse.

Its having the state pay for your social care in order to protect his inheritance.

Toryism has always been about protecting your inheritance and family estates in large part, it was the Tories of course who were originally the party of the landed gentry, the Whigs then Liberals the party of the merchant class and then the Labour Party until recently the party of the working class (now the party of the public sector and the youngest voters)

Yes, I think that correct. Toryism has always been about protecting privilege, financial, status and generational. Usually it has done this by buying off enough aspirational middle class.

It is why the redistributive pork barrelling of its newly acquired working class vote may well run into problems.

It's not about that actually, it's about scepticism towards change.

There's a critical role for that in our political system because otherwise progressives would have no counterweight; they'd try to blow up everything with radical change rooted in the latest ideologies, some of which would be mad, and society would splinter and be at each others' throats.

Conservatives recognise that gradual change is preferable, so bad ideas can be filtered out and complex ones mitigated, as society can then remain stable and thus the economy can safely grow.

I think that much the same. Conservatives like the established privileges and don't want to see them changed.

I'd put it differently: change in order to conserve.

If the Conservatives were truly like you say they'd have gone the way of the Bourbons a long time ago.

Pulpstar said:

Casino_Royale said:

Leon said:

Asia is quite concerning now


Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia, all heading into big new waves. Indonesia reporting 1,200 dead today. Feck


Meanwhile the Guardian reports that the real death toll in India is 4 MILLION - ie ten times the official death toll, which confirms the most appalling estimates, which were sometimes dismissed as scare-mongering

If India alone has actually suffered 4 million dead so far, then what is the true global total? 15 million? 20 million? And how high might it go?

Covid is already one of the worst pandemics in all human history

The Telegraph says up to 5 million.

The UK's death toll would be 2.6 million if it was the same population as India.

Scott_xP said:

Brexit is done...

UK sets collision course with EU under plans to redraw Brexit deal https://on.ft.com/3eE1n4t

DavidL said:

If Malan is not out in the next couple of balls to get Livingston in England are toast. Absolutely insane having him so far down the order.

alex_ said:

UK and France agree deal to tackle rise in Channel crossings

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57909188

moonshine said:

HYUFD said:

Philip_Thompson said:

HYUFD said:

Philip_Thompson said:

HYUFD said:

Philip_Thompson said:

HYUFD said:

57% support increasing NI to pay for social care, including 82% of over 65s and 63% of 50-65s

https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1417517568257101824

82% of over-65s support a tax increase that is only paid by under-65s, in order to provide more funding to over 65s?

Well blow me down with a feather!

There is no greater love than this: that a person would rob his grandchildren for the sake of himself.

The grandchildren will still inherit the house ultimately if no dementia tax

So the grandchildren should be facing even more taxes while struggling to raise a deposit to pay for their own home, or to pay to put food on the table for their own children, in the hopes that in a few decades their own parents die and can have an inheritance? 🤔

You're perverted if you think that's right.

Grandparents and parents can help with a deposit too and of course the NI the young and middle aged pay will fund the social care many of them will get when they get to old age.

I am a Tory and a conservative and not a liberal like you as I believe in family and preserving assets in the family

You believe in robbing the working in order to preserve assets for those who could pay for their own care but would rather not.

If punishing people who work in order to protect the wealth of the elite is your version of "conservativism" then I want nothing to do with it.

As you are more of a liberal than a conservative you are quite welcome to go to the LDs, would not bother me at all if you did

What an extraordinary attitude from an elected public official. You do realise how much damage you do the Conservative brand don’t you?

Leon said:

Casino_Royale said:

Leon said:

Asia is quite concerning now


Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia, all heading into big new waves. Indonesia reporting 1,200 dead today. Feck


Meanwhile the Guardian reports that the real death toll in India is 4 MILLION - ie ten times the official death toll, which confirms the most appalling estimates, which were sometimes dismissed as scare-mongering

If India alone has actually suffered 4 million dead so far, then what is the true global total? 15 million? 20 million? And how high might it go?

Covid is already one of the worst pandemics in all human history

The Telegraph says up to 5 million.

Bloody hell

I recall reading the claim, weeks back, that the Indian death toll was understated "ten to fifteen times" judging by the amount of cremations taking place compared with normality

Something in me rebelled against this, and pigeon holed it as "alarmism"

Now it seems it is true. Grim

I wonder if we will ever know the true death toll in China. It beggars belief that 1.4 billion Indians can suffer 5 million dead, with more to come, and neighbouring China, with a similarly vast population, has just.... 4,600 dead?

A thousand times fewer. Really? How?