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In the last 13 Westminster by-elections just one has been won by a man – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    isam said:

    Charles said:

    Rupert Pearse
    @rupert_pearse
    ·
    4h
    Friends working in NHS hospitals across the UK tell me most COVID in-patients are not vaccinated, or have an illness which affects their immune system. But some are young fit (unvaccinated) patients in their 20’s and 30’s. We may be seeing more pregnant patients than before.

    We are planning for a peak of hospital admissions around early August.

    That’s the biggest risk of this exit wave strategy IMV - I’m not sure I’ve seen data on the impact of COVID on unborn children
    Or the jab. My gf is not having the vaccine until the baby is born
    The official recommendation is pregnant women don’t get the jab because it hasn’t been tested (usually clinical trials include a statistically meaningful group of pregnant women but we didn’t have time on this one).

    Hence why you have the issue with COVID
    Impact on unborn children
  • Options
    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,017

    Emma Raducanu! :smiley:

    A star is born!
    Let's not get too carried away - HOWEVER... looks like she has Cirstea on the ropes, and Cirstea is a very competent professional.
    Agreed. But this is a mightily impressive performance, and she looks a player. Long, long time since I’ve seen a British woman player who looks this good.
  • Options
    borisatsunborisatsun Posts: 188

    Emma Raducanu! :smiley:

    A star is born!
    Let's not get too carried away - HOWEVER... looks like she has Cirstea on the ropes, and Cirstea is a very competent professional.
    Agreed. But this is a mightily impressive performance, and she looks a player. Long, long time since I’ve seen a British woman player who looks this good.
    She is hot.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Sandpit said:

    Charles said:

    Unless she's suggesting rule free kids turn into Orcs, assume La Birbal means Lord of the Flies?


    I had a tour of Katherine’s school a couple of weeks ago.

    I asked the kid who was guiding me around what the biggest difference between the school (Michaela) and his old school.

    His response: bullying isn’t allowed here.
    Michaela is an awesome school, taking some of the most disadvantaged kids in London and getting them into Russell Group universities.
    Absolutely, but in desperate need of supporters
  • Options
    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,017
    Just watch this!!!
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Emma Raducanu! :smiley:

    A star is born!
    If she's as good as she looks, she's going to be a lot more popular than Sir Andy.
    She looks pretty good, and is great at tennis too
  • Options
    state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,422
    Think the Czech Rep look big at 3/1 to beat Denmark this evening . Cannot see much between them tbh.
  • Options
    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    kle4 said:

    Apparently the Matt Hancock story was part of a plot to sabotage the Tories in Batley and Spen so that Keir Starmer would be able to cling on as Labour leader.

    @mattzarb
    The Sun sat on the Hancock affair story, releasing it the weekend before the Batley and Spen byelection. The Tories lost the seat by just over 300 votes and as a result Starmer wasn’t pressured to resign. Labour now ambles along with an extremely unpopular leader and no policies


    https://twitter.com/mattzarb/status/1411282961077522438

    I don't buy such a claim. It might well work out that way, but losing a winnable seat would surely not be sensibly tossed away based on an assumption of how things might go if the Tories lost.

    If nothing else there's no guarantee he would have gone if they'd lost, so all that might have happened was a ramping up of internal party tensions.
    I have to admit I can believe that. Now, I am slightly biased because I did make the point in a post yesterday that I thought BJ would be very pleased with the result because not only has it kept SKS in place but that Galloway will undoubtedly see there is an opportunity for the re-emergence of the Respect party off a left-wing, anti-woke agenda targeted at the Muslim community. Oh, and SKS alienated Indian Hindu voters by the leaflet targeting Modi.

  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,989
    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Charles said:

    Rupert Pearse
    @rupert_pearse
    ·
    4h
    Friends working in NHS hospitals across the UK tell me most COVID in-patients are not vaccinated, or have an illness which affects their immune system. But some are young fit (unvaccinated) patients in their 20’s and 30’s. We may be seeing more pregnant patients than before.

    We are planning for a peak of hospital admissions around early August.

    That’s the biggest risk of this exit wave strategy IMV - I’m not sure I’ve seen data on the impact of COVID on unborn children
    Or the jab. My gf is not having the vaccine until the baby is born
    The official recommendation is pregnant women don’t get the jab because it hasn’t been tested (usually clinical trials include a statistically meaningful group of pregnant women but we didn’t have time on this one).

    Hence why you have the issue with COVID
    Impact on unborn children
    Worrying times
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,146

    Scott_xP said:

    HYUFD said:

    So does Boris

    If BoZo gave a shit about the Union, he wouldn't do stupid shit like this



    Or put a border down the Irish Sea, obviously...
    I wonder how many Scottish unionists think that English failure is a price worth paying for the continuation of their precious.
    Unionists want England, Wales and Scotland to all do well and the British Lions to do even better still
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Charles said:

    Emma Raducanu! :smiley:

    A star is born!
    If she's as good as she looks, she's going to be a lot more popular than Sir Andy.
    She looks pretty good, and is great at tennis too
    Little bit of a hiccup, but still just back on serve... Factoid: Serena Williams first won Wimbledon in 2002; Miss Raducanu wasn't born until November of that year.
  • Options
    solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    HYUFD said:

    So does Boris

    If BoZo gave a shit about the Union, he wouldn't do stupid shit like this



    Or put a border down the Irish Sea, obviously...
    I wonder how many Scottish unionists think that English failure is a price worth paying for the continuation of their precious.
    Unionists want England, Wales and Scotland to all do well and the British Lions to do even better still
    There's also people who want those things who aren't unionists.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,004

    Charles said:

    Emma Raducanu! :smiley:

    A star is born!
    If she's as good as she looks, she's going to be a lot more popular than Sir Andy.
    She looks pretty good, and is great at tennis too
    Little bit of a hiccup, but still just back on serve... Factoid: Serena Williams first won Wimbledon in 2002; Miss Raducanu wasn't born until November of that year.
    I blame myself - I click over, the commentator talks about how 'everything is going her way' like a dream, and she's barely won a point since.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,424
    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Charles said:

    Rupert Pearse
    @rupert_pearse
    ·
    4h
    Friends working in NHS hospitals across the UK tell me most COVID in-patients are not vaccinated, or have an illness which affects their immune system. But some are young fit (unvaccinated) patients in their 20’s and 30’s. We may be seeing more pregnant patients than before.

    We are planning for a peak of hospital admissions around early August.

    That’s the biggest risk of this exit wave strategy IMV - I’m not sure I’ve seen data on the impact of COVID on unborn children
    Or the jab. My gf is not having the vaccine until the baby is born
    The official recommendation is pregnant women don’t get the jab because it hasn’t been tested (usually clinical trials include a statistically meaningful group of pregnant women but we didn’t have time on this one).

    Hence why you have the issue with COVID
    Impact on unborn children
    In Ireland pregnant women are considered a priority group for vaccination, because they've record at least half a dozen cases of what they have called Covid placentitis (still birth associated with Covid infection of the placenta), and they consider the risk from the vaccine to be lower than that from the virus. Although, vaccination is not given until after the first 16 weeks.
  • Options
    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,017

    Charles said:

    Emma Raducanu! :smiley:

    A star is born!
    If she's as good as she looks, she's going to be a lot more popular than Sir Andy.
    She looks pretty good, and is great at tennis too
    Little bit of a hiccup, but still just back on serve... Factoid: Serena Williams first won Wimbledon in 2002; Miss Raducanu wasn't born until November of that year.
    Choking is always a fear with players this young and inexperienced. But her temperament is good, I think.
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Emma Raducanu! :smiley:

    A star is born!
    If she's as good as she looks, she's going to be a lot more popular than Sir Andy.
    She looks pretty good, and is great at tennis too
    Little bit of a hiccup, but still just back on serve... Factoid: Serena Williams first won Wimbledon in 2002; Miss Raducanu wasn't born until November of that year.
    I blame myself - I click over, the commentator talks about how 'everything is going her way' like a dream, and she's barely won a point since.
    Don't panic :smile:
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941

    Charles said:

    Emma Raducanu! :smiley:

    A star is born!
    If she's as good as she looks, she's going to be a lot more popular than Sir Andy.
    She looks pretty good, and is great at tennis too
    Little bit of a hiccup, but still just back on serve... Factoid: Serena Williams first won Wimbledon in 2002; Miss Raducanu wasn't born until November of that year.
    Serena Williams has had an astonishing career, being almost continuously in the top 10 ranked players since 1999. 22 years ago!
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,989

    More of this please


    Brendan Cox
    @MrBrendanCox

    Elections are bruising and it takes bravery to stand. Thank you to @Stephenson_Ryan for fighting the campaign on the issues and not pandering to divisions. We may disagree on a lot but he’s a good man and has more to give.

    Hate to be the cynic, but I see this as a back handed dig at GG
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Meanwhile, our regular reminder that "getting back to normal" ain't possible without ditching mass isolation - it's not just the schools...

    Bars, pubs and clubs may be forced into a backdoor lockdown beyond 19 July unless the government changes test-and-trace rules, industry bosses have warned.

    Businesses across the country from Edinburgh to Chester, Oxford and London are being hit by waves of closures as staff are forced to self-isolate after being alerted by the NHS test and trace app over coming into contact with someone with Covid.

    Under the current rules, workers who have come within 2 metres of a person with the virus must stay at home for 10 days even if they are vaccinated and have tested negative.

    “The current guidelines are wreaking havoc among hospitality businesses and in essence enacting a further lockdown on large parts of the sector,” said Kate Nicholls, the chief executive of the trade body UKHospitality.


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jul/02/test-and-trace-self-isolation-rules-wreaking-havoc-among-uk-hospitality-sector-industry-bosses-warn

    The Government is going to have to exempt the double jabbed from being locked up by test and trace, or else contact tracing and people getting pinged left, right and centre is going to start seriously gumming up the economy.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Charles said:

    Unless she's suggesting rule free kids turn into Orcs, assume La Birbal means Lord of the Flies?


    I had a tour of Katherine’s school a couple of weeks ago.

    I asked the kid who was guiding me around what the biggest difference between the school (Michaela) and his old school.

    His response: bullying isn’t allowed here.
    Michaela is an awesome school, taking some of the most disadvantaged kids in London and getting them into Russell Group universities.
    Absolutely, but in desperate need of supporters
    Are they not primarily government-funded?
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,996
    Tour De France is absolute anarchy today.
    Field smashed apart and no team with the numbers or incentive to bring it back.
    Every man for himself, and the proper climbing hasn't even started yet.
  • Options
    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,322
    isam said:

    More of this please


    Brendan Cox
    @MrBrendanCox

    Elections are bruising and it takes bravery to stand. Thank you to @Stephenson_Ryan for fighting the campaign on the issues and not pandering to divisions. We may disagree on a lot but he’s a good man and has more to give.

    Hate to be the cynic, but I see this as a back handed dig at GG
    Should Galloway be treated with generosity and admiration?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,004
    isam said:

    More of this please


    Brendan Cox
    @MrBrendanCox

    Elections are bruising and it takes bravery to stand. Thank you to @Stephenson_Ryan for fighting the campaign on the issues and not pandering to divisions. We may disagree on a lot but he’s a good man and has more to give.

    Hate to be the cynic, but I see this as a back handed dig at GG
    It can be both.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    isam said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Charles said:

    Rupert Pearse
    @rupert_pearse
    ·
    4h
    Friends working in NHS hospitals across the UK tell me most COVID in-patients are not vaccinated, or have an illness which affects their immune system. But some are young fit (unvaccinated) patients in their 20’s and 30’s. We may be seeing more pregnant patients than before.

    We are planning for a peak of hospital admissions around early August.

    That’s the biggest risk of this exit wave strategy IMV - I’m not sure I’ve seen data on the impact of COVID on unborn children
    Or the jab. My gf is not having the vaccine until the baby is born
    The official recommendation is pregnant women don’t get the jab because it hasn’t been tested (usually clinical trials include a statistically meaningful group of pregnant women but we didn’t have time on this one).

    Hence why you have the issue with COVID
    Impact on unborn children
    Worrying times
    Sure it will be fine. I just don’t like unknowns
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,358
    isam said:

    More of this please


    Brendan Cox
    @MrBrendanCox

    Elections are bruising and it takes bravery to stand. Thank you to @Stephenson_Ryan for fighting the campaign on the issues and not pandering to divisions. We may disagree on a lot but he’s a good man and has more to give.

    Hate to be the cynic, but I see this as a back handed dig at GG
    It seemed very genuine when he was interviewed on the TV
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Helluva tussle between Raducanu and Cirstea here - deuce number 8
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,424

    Meanwhile, our regular reminder that "getting back to normal" ain't possible without ditching mass isolation - it's not just the schools...

    Bars, pubs and clubs may be forced into a backdoor lockdown beyond 19 July unless the government changes test-and-trace rules, industry bosses have warned.

    Businesses across the country from Edinburgh to Chester, Oxford and London are being hit by waves of closures as staff are forced to self-isolate after being alerted by the NHS test and trace app over coming into contact with someone with Covid.

    Under the current rules, workers who have come within 2 metres of a person with the virus must stay at home for 10 days even if they are vaccinated and have tested negative.

    “The current guidelines are wreaking havoc among hospitality businesses and in essence enacting a further lockdown on large parts of the sector,” said Kate Nicholls, the chief executive of the trade body UKHospitality.


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jul/02/test-and-trace-self-isolation-rules-wreaking-havoc-among-uk-hospitality-sector-industry-bosses-warn

    The Government is going to have to exempt the double jabbed from being locked up by test and trace, or else contact tracing and people getting pinged left, right and centre is going to start seriously gumming up the economy.

    The justification for removing restrictions would be that vaccination means we don't need the restrictions to control the spread of the virus. Given that this is self-evidently not because the vaccines are providing herd immunity, driving virus incidence to zero, then it follows that it would be because we don't need to control the spread of the virus, because we are willing to accept everyone catching it, because vaccination means the consequences of that are not severe enough to justify countermeasures.

    So, yes, implication is that we don't need to require people to self-isolate.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,147

    Helluva tussle between Raducanu and Cirstea here - deuce number 8

    Raducanu was doing great until PB started saying how great she was doing...
  • Options
    borisatsunborisatsun Posts: 188
    isam said:

    More of this please


    Brendan Cox
    @MrBrendanCox

    Elections are bruising and it takes bravery to stand. Thank you to @Stephenson_Ryan for fighting the campaign on the issues and not pandering to divisions. We may disagree on a lot but he’s a good man and has more to give.

    Hate to be the cynic, but I see this as a back handed dig at GG
    Even if so, it's good (and too rare) to see some magnanimity across the major political divide.
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Helluva tussle between Raducanu and Cirstea here - deuce number 8

    After something like fifteen minutes, Cirstea survives. 4-4.
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Scott_xP said:

    Helluva tussle between Raducanu and Cirstea here - deuce number 8

    Raducanu was doing great until PB started saying how great she was doing...
    Patience! The wheels haven't exactly fallen off yet.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,797

    Fishing said:

    For a job, I am reading the NY Supreme Court's judgement against Giuliani, suspending his law licence. It is actually compulsive reading, if you can get over the dry and pretentious language common to most legal opinions. It is also hilarious, presumably unintentionally so.

    Here is a fairly typical passage:

    [Giuliani claimed that ] 65,000 or 66,000 or 165,000 underage voters illegally voted in the Georgia 2020 election.The Georgia Office of the Secretary of State undertook an investigation of this claim. It compared the list of all of the people who voted in Georgia to their full birthdays. The audit revealed that there were zero (0) underage voters in the 2020 election. While a small number of voters (four) had requested a ballot prior to turning 18, they all turned 18 by the time the election was held in November 2020.

    [Giuliani] does not expressly deny the truth of this information. Instead [Giuliani] claims that he reasonably reliedon “expert” affidavits, including one by Bryan Geels, in believing the facts he stated were true. None of these affidavits were provided to the Court ... Other than [Giuliani] calling him an “expert,” we do not know Mr.Geels' actual area of expertise or what qualifies him as such. Merely providing names and conclusory assertions that respondent had a basis for what he said, does not raise any disputed issue about whether misconduct has occurred.

    https://newyork.cbslocal.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/14578484/2021/06/Matter-of-Giuliani-2021-00506-PC.pdf

    Anyway, I'm finding it funny. But, more importantly, I think that, while parts of America's democracy may be under threat, its courts are still independent and robust.

    The think I find extraordinary is the gap between the funny, articulate, clever* Giuliani who smashed the Mob in New York and the current version.

    *As seen in contemporary interview, film footage etc.
    There was always something of the self aggrandising bully about him, alongside what other qualities he possessed. The tendency of power to corrupt seems to have let that push out everything else.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,526
    Re Michael Gove. I do not know what he has been up to lately but having read his biography along with those of Boris and David Cameron and others, what is remarkable is what a small and shallow clique governs us. They all knew each other at school or university or first jobs.

    For instance, Boris's deputy chief of staff, Simone Finn, is a friend of Carrie's, was given a peerage by David Cameron, and used to be Michael Gove's girlfriend.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/simone-finn-the-comprehensive-schoolgirl-turned-baroness-whos-the-new-power-at-no-10-6sz2g9z9w (£££)

    A thrusting meritocracy it ain't.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,805
    MrEd said:

    kle4 said:

    Apparently the Matt Hancock story was part of a plot to sabotage the Tories in Batley and Spen so that Keir Starmer would be able to cling on as Labour leader.

    @mattzarb
    The Sun sat on the Hancock affair story, releasing it the weekend before the Batley and Spen byelection. The Tories lost the seat by just over 300 votes and as a result Starmer wasn’t pressured to resign. Labour now ambles along with an extremely unpopular leader and no policies


    https://twitter.com/mattzarb/status/1411282961077522438

    I don't buy such a claim. It might well work out that way, but losing a winnable seat would surely not be sensibly tossed away based on an assumption of how things might go if the Tories lost.

    If nothing else there's no guarantee he would have gone if they'd lost, so all that might have happened was a ramping up of internal party tensions.
    I have to admit I can believe that. Now, I am slightly biased because I did make the point in a post yesterday that I thought BJ would be very pleased with the result because not only has it kept SKS in place but that Galloway will undoubtedly see there is an opportunity for the re-emergence of the Respect party off a left-wing, anti-woke agenda targeted at the Muslim community. Oh, and SKS alienated Indian Hindu voters by the leaflet targeting Modi.

    Modi isn't popular with all Indian voters in the UK because of his sectarianism. Clearly some Hindus support, but the Sikhs are very anti, as are more secular Indians.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,351

    isam said:

    More of this please


    Brendan Cox
    @MrBrendanCox

    Elections are bruising and it takes bravery to stand. Thank you to @Stephenson_Ryan for fighting the campaign on the issues and not pandering to divisions. We may disagree on a lot but he’s a good man and has more to give.

    Hate to be the cynic, but I see this as a back handed dig at GG
    Should Galloway be treated with generosity and admiration?
    Anyone who says he shouldn’t be doing ten years is treating him with generosity.
  • Options
    borisatsunborisatsun Posts: 188
    edited July 2021

    Scott_xP said:

    Helluva tussle between Raducanu and Cirstea here - deuce number 8

    Raducanu was doing great until PB started saying how great she was doing...
    Patience! The wheels haven't exactly fallen off yet.
    Scott's always ready with the miserabilist viewpoint
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,996
    dixiedean said:

    Tour De France is absolute anarchy today.
    Field smashed apart and no team with the numbers or incentive to bring it back.
    Every man for himself, and the proper climbing hasn't even started yet.

    Roglic and Thomas 12 minutes down and out of GC. Cavendish will struggle to make the time cut off for Green.
    Pogacar under real pressure with only one team mate before the climbing begins.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,147

    Scott's always ready with the miserabilist viewpoint

    I've got a bet on...
  • Options
    darkagedarkage Posts: 4,798

    Meanwhile, our regular reminder that "getting back to normal" ain't possible without ditching mass isolation - it's not just the schools...

    Bars, pubs and clubs may be forced into a backdoor lockdown beyond 19 July unless the government changes test-and-trace rules, industry bosses have warned.

    Businesses across the country from Edinburgh to Chester, Oxford and London are being hit by waves of closures as staff are forced to self-isolate after being alerted by the NHS test and trace app over coming into contact with someone with Covid.

    Under the current rules, workers who have come within 2 metres of a person with the virus must stay at home for 10 days even if they are vaccinated and have tested negative.

    “The current guidelines are wreaking havoc among hospitality businesses and in essence enacting a further lockdown on large parts of the sector,” said Kate Nicholls, the chief executive of the trade body UKHospitality.


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jul/02/test-and-trace-self-isolation-rules-wreaking-havoc-among-uk-hospitality-sector-industry-bosses-warn

    The Government is going to have to exempt the double jabbed from being locked up by test and trace, or else contact tracing and people getting pinged left, right and centre is going to start seriously gumming up the economy.

    What percentage of people are really actually genuinely using the app?
    I have some friends who say they use it as it is their civic duty but have turned bluetooth off as they don't want to be pinged ( so what is the point then?)
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Sandpit said:

    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Charles said:

    Unless she's suggesting rule free kids turn into Orcs, assume La Birbal means Lord of the Flies?


    I had a tour of Katherine’s school a couple of weeks ago.

    I asked the kid who was guiding me around what the biggest difference between the school (Michaela) and his old school.

    His response: bullying isn’t allowed here.
    Michaela is an awesome school, taking some of the most disadvantaged kids in London and getting them into Russell Group universities.
    Absolutely, but in desperate need of supporters
    Are they not primarily government-funded?
    Yes but that just allows for operations not expansion
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,996

    Re Michael Gove. I do not know what he has been up to lately but having read his biography along with those of Boris and David Cameron and others, what is remarkable is what a small and shallow clique governs us. They all knew each other at school or university or first jobs.

    For instance, Boris's deputy chief of staff, Simone Finn, is a friend of Carrie's, was given a peerage by David Cameron, and used to be Michael Gove's girlfriend.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/simone-finn-the-comprehensive-schoolgirl-turned-baroness-whos-the-new-power-at-no-10-6sz2g9z9w (£££)

    A thrusting meritocracy it ain't.

    Thrusting it is though.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    So PBers are watching tennis, cycling and F1 at the moment. Any other sports on?
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,996
    Foxy said:

    MrEd said:

    kle4 said:

    Apparently the Matt Hancock story was part of a plot to sabotage the Tories in Batley and Spen so that Keir Starmer would be able to cling on as Labour leader.

    @mattzarb
    The Sun sat on the Hancock affair story, releasing it the weekend before the Batley and Spen byelection. The Tories lost the seat by just over 300 votes and as a result Starmer wasn’t pressured to resign. Labour now ambles along with an extremely unpopular leader and no policies


    https://twitter.com/mattzarb/status/1411282961077522438

    I don't buy such a claim. It might well work out that way, but losing a winnable seat would surely not be sensibly tossed away based on an assumption of how things might go if the Tories lost.

    If nothing else there's no guarantee he would have gone if they'd lost, so all that might have happened was a ramping up of internal party tensions.
    I have to admit I can believe that. Now, I am slightly biased because I did make the point in a post yesterday that I thought BJ would be very pleased with the result because not only has it kept SKS in place but that Galloway will undoubtedly see there is an opportunity for the re-emergence of the Respect party off a left-wing, anti-woke agenda targeted at the Muslim community. Oh, and SKS alienated Indian Hindu voters by the leaflet targeting Modi.

    Modi isn't popular with all Indian voters in the UK because of his sectarianism. Clearly some Hindus support, but the Sikhs are very anti, as are more secular Indians.
    Not to mention Indian Muslims.
  • Options
    solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623
    darkage said:

    Meanwhile, our regular reminder that "getting back to normal" ain't possible without ditching mass isolation - it's not just the schools...

    Bars, pubs and clubs may be forced into a backdoor lockdown beyond 19 July unless the government changes test-and-trace rules, industry bosses have warned.

    Businesses across the country from Edinburgh to Chester, Oxford and London are being hit by waves of closures as staff are forced to self-isolate after being alerted by the NHS test and trace app over coming into contact with someone with Covid.

    Under the current rules, workers who have come within 2 metres of a person with the virus must stay at home for 10 days even if they are vaccinated and have tested negative.

    “The current guidelines are wreaking havoc among hospitality businesses and in essence enacting a further lockdown on large parts of the sector,” said Kate Nicholls, the chief executive of the trade body UKHospitality.


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jul/02/test-and-trace-self-isolation-rules-wreaking-havoc-among-uk-hospitality-sector-industry-bosses-warn

    The Government is going to have to exempt the double jabbed from being locked up by test and trace, or else contact tracing and people getting pinged left, right and centre is going to start seriously gumming up the economy.

    What percentage of people are really actually genuinely using the app?
    I have some friends who say they use it as it is their civic duty but have turned bluetooth off as they don't want to be pinged ( so what is the point then?)
    What I really want to know is the percentage of people regularly asymptomatically testing themselves voluntarily (i.e. not because they need to for e.g. work etc.) like wot the Government would like everyone to do.
  • Options
    NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758
    kinabalu said:

    Cyclefree said:


    Dr. Foxy, aye. But liking a particular sport or period of history is fundamentally different to claiming you don't belong to either gender in vague and strange ways.

    Ironically, perhaps, I strongly agree with you on sexual stereotypes, to the extent that some people now think if a chap's into sewing or a girl's into engineering then they're 'really' the other sex.

    I'd support the right of a knowing adult to transition, though once again that's beyond me, but marketing this stuff to kids is deeply disturbing, as is the degradation of women's sport and having rapists sent to women's prison when they choose to identify that way.

    A very disturbing judgment yesterday in the High Court about transwomen and prisons, essentially saying, that yes rights for men claiming to be women did harm women but too bad, their rights overrode those of women. So a man claiming to be a woman and convicted of sexual offences against women can demand to be put in a woman's prison even though the court accepted that this made women prisoners feel unsafe and put them at risk of attack.

    Lovely.

    The case was a judicial review which limits what a court can actually do as the test is whether the prison service has taken into account all the relevant factors in coming to its decision not whether the decision is necessarily right or, indeed, desirable. But the consequence is that once again women's safeguarding is taken less seriously than it should be. Because self-ID is, frankly, a crock of shit. Gender dysphoria is a real thing and people with it are no threat to anyone. But people who claim to have it without more are completely undermining the very real needs of trans people.

    Interestingly, as in the Keira Bell case, it appears that the Prison Service has not been collecting data on who in prison is or is not trans and, following this judgment, they will have to do so. Similar to the lack of evidence for some of the medical treatment given to allegedly trans children.

    It is alarming when policies with significant consequences for individuals and societies are taken with very little or no data or evidence in support.

    The irony about self-ID is that it is fundamentally rooted in old-fashioned stereotypes which feminism has tried hard to overcome. It is also inherently homophobic. After all, if gender is a choice why shouldn't sexuality also be a choice? Which is exactly the argument that a lot of people used against gay people - that homosexuality is a choice and that they had made the wrong choice of an evil lifestyle. Whereas it isn't. And they haven't.
    I don't see a clear difference in essence between "Self ID" and a formal diagnosis of gender dysphoria. The latter involves medical professionals but at its heart is the testimony of the individual that they are male having being born female, or vice versa. There's no objective physical test. We're in the realms of feelings. I feel therefore I am.

    This doesn't mean it's a choice. Homosexuality is also a matter of feelings and Self-ID but it isn't defined as a choice. The vast vast majority of those who say they have gender dysphoria aren't faking it. There'll be those who are confused and have other issues bleeding into their distress, but so what. That's the nature of these things. The point is, it's real. It isn't a bunch of people posing around trying to make themselves interesting or intent on causing aggravation and menace. They have a condition for which gender transformation is the main redress.

    There's nothing new about transgender. Laws and language change but it's been around for ever. Rejecting the theological extremes - gender is fluid and purely optional like choosing what hat to wear today vs gender is fixed irredeemably at birth by your genitals - all we're really talking about is 2 things.

    Should the process of transition be made quicker and kinder?

    What protections are needed for female only spaces and sport?

    To which I say -

    Yes to the first. The changes to the GRA (now shelved) weren't some crazy invention of the outre, woke left. They were consensus, supported cross party, by a female Conservative PM (Mrs May), by the medical profession. All been souped up and demonized in the 'culture war' and it's a shame imo that we can't get back to approx that. Self-ID as the basis for the process with some limits and controls TBC. It's about where we should be on a spectrum ranging from transition being 100% Self-ID to being completely outlawed. There are countries in both camps. Where should we be? For me, closer to the first. It will help a group of people and harm nobody.

    And re the second. TBC - and needed in certain areas esp (imo) sport and refuges - but for heaven's sake let's arrive at a solution based on reality not on the assumption that there are hordes of men just waiting for the chance to become fake women so that they can terrorize other proper women, or creep them out, or cheat them out of an Olympic medal.

    So, like I said, I agree and disagree with you on this. Probably more of the 'd' if we're honest. :smile:
    There is another issue which is the medical treatment of children.

    I would agree with much of your analysis but on your second point you should take account that changing rules can change behaviour or provide new opportunities for abuse. Failure to apply that analysis is why many proposed changes to address an apparent wrong can do more harm than good. Automatically believing everyone reporting a sexual assault or a hate crime are other examples of well meaning but flawed policies.
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,526
    Sandpit said:

    Supposed to be going to a wedding reception tonight at a brewery. I'm told the football will not be on.

    Might pretend I have Covid...

    Trying to pretend that something of importance to the guests isn’t happening, usually doesn’t work out. Someone will have an iPad with a data plan, even if it means half the guests end up in the car park watching the screen. Better to embrace the match, and have the formal parts of the day over before it starts.
    I was at a friend's boy's bar mitzvah (Jewish coming-of-age celebration) when England beat Germany 5-1. The room with the telly was awfully crowded. The room with the family was not.
  • Options
    https://twitter.com/mattzarb/status/1411282961077522438

    As long as Starmer stops this nutter getting back into the party leadership then he will have my support
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,805

    Meanwhile, our regular reminder that "getting back to normal" ain't possible without ditching mass isolation - it's not just the schools...

    Bars, pubs and clubs may be forced into a backdoor lockdown beyond 19 July unless the government changes test-and-trace rules, industry bosses have warned.

    Businesses across the country from Edinburgh to Chester, Oxford and London are being hit by waves of closures as staff are forced to self-isolate after being alerted by the NHS test and trace app over coming into contact with someone with Covid.

    Under the current rules, workers who have come within 2 metres of a person with the virus must stay at home for 10 days even if they are vaccinated and have tested negative.

    “The current guidelines are wreaking havoc among hospitality businesses and in essence enacting a further lockdown on large parts of the sector,” said Kate Nicholls, the chief executive of the trade body UKHospitality.


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jul/02/test-and-trace-self-isolation-rules-wreaking-havoc-among-uk-hospitality-sector-industry-bosses-warn

    The Government is going to have to exempt the double jabbed from being locked up by test and trace, or else contact tracing and people getting pinged left, right and centre is going to start seriously gumming up the economy.

    The justification for removing restrictions would be that vaccination means we don't need the restrictions to control the spread of the virus. Given that this is self-evidently not because the vaccines are providing herd immunity, driving virus incidence to zero, then it follows that it would be because we don't need to control the spread of the virus, because we are willing to accept everyone catching it, because vaccination means the consequences of that are not severe enough to justify countermeasures.

    So, yes, implication is that we don't need to require people to self-isolate.
    The plan is to let it rip.

    To an extent, I agree. Either vaccines are effective in which case it is tolerable, albeit rather Darwinian for anti-vaxxers, or they don't, in which case there is no obvious way out. Personally, I shall be remaining cautious around crowds and keeping my distance.

    Isolation is causing quite a few absences at work too. Quite a lot of cancellations as it spreads through theatre teams. Waiting lists continue to mushroom.
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Scott_xP said:

    Scott's always ready with the miserabilist viewpoint

    I've got a bet on...
    Which one?
  • Options
    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,017
    Sandpit said:

    So PBers are watching tennis, cycling and F1 at the moment. Any other sports on?

    All just a warm-up for the football!
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,526
    Sandpit said:

    So PBers are watching tennis, cycling and F1 at the moment. Any other sports on?

    Racing. There's the Eclipse at Sandown and the Old Newton Cup and Lancashire Oaks at Haydock. We've already had a major cock-up with a wrong winner being called.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,147
    Sandpit said:

    So PBers are watching tennis, cycling and F1 at the moment. Any other sports on?

    There's a rugby match on. And the horse racing
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,351

    https://twitter.com/mattzarb/status/1411282961077522438

    As long as Starmer stops this nutter getting back into the party leadership then he will have my support

    Matt Zarb-Cousins was party leader? Or was he quoting Corbyn?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,991
    dixiedean said:

    Tour De France is absolute anarchy today.
    Field smashed apart and no team with the numbers or incentive to bring it back.
    Every man for himself, and the proper climbing hasn't even started yet.

    Cavendish is in the back group, there's a possibility it could be outside the time control. Now they'll probably all be reinstated BUT he'll forfeit all points for green if he is.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,805
    dixiedean said:

    Re Michael Gove. I do not know what he has been up to lately but having read his biography along with those of Boris and David Cameron and others, what is remarkable is what a small and shallow clique governs us. They all knew each other at school or university or first jobs.

    For instance, Boris's deputy chief of staff, Simone Finn, is a friend of Carrie's, was given a peerage by David Cameron, and used to be Michael Gove's girlfriend.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/simone-finn-the-comprehensive-schoolgirl-turned-baroness-whos-the-new-power-at-no-10-6sz2g9z9w (£££)

    A thrusting meritocracy it ain't.

    Thrusting it is though.
    The scandals could be bottoming out.
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,053
    Any pbers younger than 38 had both their jabs without being a priority category? Just wondering how Wales is doing in comparison.
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Raducanu 6-5 up
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,088

    Any pbers younger than 38 had both their jabs without being a priority category? Just wondering how Wales is doing in comparison.

    My girlfriend's 21 year-old sister has had both her jabs.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,707
    edited July 2021
    Finally tried those Turkish Eggs.

    Very very flavoursome.



    A touch less yoghurt required. as the eggs submerged slightly.

    Recipe: https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/turkish-eggs
  • Options
    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,017

    Raducanu 6-5 up

    Match point!
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,053
    John/Dixie - Rachel Sylvester made the point many years ago that the dynamics of the Cameron set were more like an episode of Friends than the West Wing.
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    borisatsunborisatsun Posts: 188
    The Raducanu receiving wiggle is one of the finest sights in sport..

    God, I'm such an old perv!
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    MaffewMaffew Posts: 235
    darkage said:

    Meanwhile, our regular reminder that "getting back to normal" ain't possible without ditching mass isolation - it's not just the schools...

    Bars, pubs and clubs may be forced into a backdoor lockdown beyond 19 July unless the government changes test-and-trace rules, industry bosses have warned.

    Businesses across the country from Edinburgh to Chester, Oxford and London are being hit by waves of closures as staff are forced to self-isolate after being alerted by the NHS test and trace app over coming into contact with someone with Covid.

    Under the current rules, workers who have come within 2 metres of a person with the virus must stay at home for 10 days even if they are vaccinated and have tested negative.

    “The current guidelines are wreaking havoc among hospitality businesses and in essence enacting a further lockdown on large parts of the sector,” said Kate Nicholls, the chief executive of the trade body UKHospitality.


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jul/02/test-and-trace-self-isolation-rules-wreaking-havoc-among-uk-hospitality-sector-industry-bosses-warn

    The Government is going to have to exempt the double jabbed from being locked up by test and trace, or else contact tracing and people getting pinged left, right and centre is going to start seriously gumming up the economy.

    What percentage of people are really actually genuinely using the app?
    I have some friends who say they use it as it is their civic duty but have turned bluetooth off as they don't want to be pinged ( so what is the point then?)
    A rapidly declining percentage of my own social group. I used it until recently, but have recently turned off the contact tracing function. I mentioned this to a few friends and every single one has also turned it off (most of them quite recently). Bars and restaurants are also becoming less and less interested in making you sign in.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    I'm close to that. Just turned 39 and I had my second a week ago.
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    TresTres Posts: 2,239
    MrEd said:

    kle4 said:

    Apparently the Matt Hancock story was part of a plot to sabotage the Tories in Batley and Spen so that Keir Starmer would be able to cling on as Labour leader.

    @mattzarb
    The Sun sat on the Hancock affair story, releasing it the weekend before the Batley and Spen byelection. The Tories lost the seat by just over 300 votes and as a result Starmer wasn’t pressured to resign. Labour now ambles along with an extremely unpopular leader and no policies


    https://twitter.com/mattzarb/status/1411282961077522438

    I don't buy such a claim. It might well work out that way, but losing a winnable seat would surely not be sensibly tossed away based on an assumption of how things might go if the Tories lost.

    If nothing else there's no guarantee he would have gone if they'd lost, so all that might have happened was a ramping up of internal party tensions.
    I have to admit I can believe that. Now, I am slightly biased because I did make the point in a post yesterday that I thought BJ would be very pleased with the result because not only has it kept SKS in place but that Galloway will undoubtedly see there is an opportunity for the re-emergence of the Respect party off a left-wing, anti-woke agenda targeted at the Muslim community. Oh, and SKS alienated Indian Hindu voters by the leaflet targeting Modi.

    I know plenty of Indians who think Modi is a turd.
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    And so another deuce contest gets underway...
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,088
    Maffew said:

    darkage said:

    Meanwhile, our regular reminder that "getting back to normal" ain't possible without ditching mass isolation - it's not just the schools...

    Bars, pubs and clubs may be forced into a backdoor lockdown beyond 19 July unless the government changes test-and-trace rules, industry bosses have warned.

    Businesses across the country from Edinburgh to Chester, Oxford and London are being hit by waves of closures as staff are forced to self-isolate after being alerted by the NHS test and trace app over coming into contact with someone with Covid.

    Under the current rules, workers who have come within 2 metres of a person with the virus must stay at home for 10 days even if they are vaccinated and have tested negative.

    “The current guidelines are wreaking havoc among hospitality businesses and in essence enacting a further lockdown on large parts of the sector,” said Kate Nicholls, the chief executive of the trade body UKHospitality.


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jul/02/test-and-trace-self-isolation-rules-wreaking-havoc-among-uk-hospitality-sector-industry-bosses-warn

    The Government is going to have to exempt the double jabbed from being locked up by test and trace, or else contact tracing and people getting pinged left, right and centre is going to start seriously gumming up the economy.

    What percentage of people are really actually genuinely using the app?
    I have some friends who say they use it as it is their civic duty but have turned bluetooth off as they don't want to be pinged ( so what is the point then?)
    A rapidly declining percentage of my own social group. I used it until recently, but have recently turned off the contact tracing function. I mentioned this to a few friends and every single one has also turned it off (most of them quite recently). Bars and restaurants are also becoming less and less interested in making you sign in.
    I've recently turned mine off too. Didn't want a ping to ruin my Lake District holiday.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,351

    Any pbers younger than 38 had both their jabs without being a priority category? Just wondering how Wales is doing in comparison.

    38 and still waiting for the second one.
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    There's only one Raducanu :smiley:
  • Options
    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,017
    Amazing!
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,053
    Don't often watch tennis but that was pretty exciting.
  • Options
    MaffewMaffew Posts: 235

    Any pbers younger than 38 had both their jabs without being a priority category? Just wondering how Wales is doing in comparison.

    Got my second one today (early 30s), along with my wife (late 20s), but we cheated and got them 3 weeks early by going to a walk in clinic. Among my friends a few have been able to do the same, but most are scheduled for second jabs late this month or early next month.
  • Options
    darkagedarkage Posts: 4,798
    stodge said:

    The justification for removing restrictions would be that vaccination means we don't need the restrictions to control the spread of the virus. Given that this is self-evidently not because the vaccines are providing herd immunity, driving virus incidence to zero, then it follows that it would be because we don't need to control the spread of the virus, because we are willing to accept everyone catching it, because vaccination means the consequences of that are not severe enough to justify countermeasures.

    So, yes, implication is that we don't need to require people to self-isolate.

    Uncomfortable and unpleasant as it is, I find myself in agreement with @Philip_Thompson and others calling for the end of the lockdown restrictions.

    The situation has descended into a spider's web of inconsistencies and misconceptions where 45,000 can fetch up for a tennis match but people still can't attend the grandchild's birthday party,

    As I've witnessed both last night and today, the restrictions are ending spontaneously as people decide they can't or won't continue with, for example, mask wearing on public transport or in shops/supermarkets. The issue is enforcement or rather the lack of it. There seems a complete breakdown of any serious attempt to enforce what is in effect the law.

    That begs the question - what's the point of the law if no one is going to enforce it? It's not worth all the notices, announcements and veiled threats.

    If you wish to wear a mask on public transport or social distance, that's absolutely your right - every individual has the right to be as risk-averse as they wish - but it can no longer be a "requirement". We have the idiocy of doubly-jabbed (and therefore mostly safe) individuals wearing masks while unvaccinated younger people (who may be carrying the virus asymptomatically or not) don't bother.

    That's just crossed the Rubicon of Absurdity.

    As others have said, we now have to "live" with the virus - continuing efforts to get more people vaccinated, accepting the particular risks for the highly vulnerable such as those with poor immune symptoms, developing better treatments for "long Covid" and improving vaccines.
    People are just tired of the rules. They don't take them seriously but pretend to go along with them because they don't want to break the law. It is just a really stupid situation, you have to go one way or the other, not a half freedom that imposes huge costs and has little or no benefit.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,926
    Emma Raducanu through to next round.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,358
    Wow - a star is born

    Fantastic fabulous 18 year old British tennis star

  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Charles said:

    Unless she's suggesting rule free kids turn into Orcs, assume La Birbal means Lord of the Flies?


    I had a tour of Katherine’s school a couple of weeks ago.

    I asked the kid who was guiding me around what the biggest difference between the school (Michaela) and his old school.

    His response: bullying isn’t allowed here.
    Michaela is an awesome school, taking some of the most disadvantaged kids in London and getting them into Russell Group universities.
    Absolutely, but in desperate need of supporters
    Are they not primarily government-funded?
    Yes but that just allows for operations not expansion
    Ah right. Good luck to them, we need more schools like Michaela and more teachers like Katherine.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,358
    Sandpit said:

    So PBers are watching tennis, cycling and F1 at the moment. Any other sports on?

    Irish open golf
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,351
    Andy_JS said:

    Emma Raducanu through to next round.

    Who will she face?
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,894
    The numbers for Newham continue to lag well behind the national figures.

    53.7% of adults with first doses and 32.4% with both compared to 85.5% and 63.1% for the UK.

    Even with NIMS over-estimates (which I do question), this is horrendous. As I've said before, there are any number of reasons.

    The vaccination centre at the Leisure Centre is open both today and tomorrow but this just isn't publicised enough.

    https://www.newham.gov.uk/coronavirus-covid-19/covid-19-vaccination/12

    Have to say, no signs of any queue today which is depressing. I suspect tomorrow may be busier but I'm getting worried we're now reaching the peak of "first dose" and we may have to reckon with only 60% take up and that's going to be a problem going forward.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,707
    edited July 2021
    An absolutely horrible cycling facility, and the best grimace I have seen on the face of a Councillor for a bit.

    "I know, let's block the end so people get thrown off their bikes in the dark."



    https://www.greenocktelegraph.co.uk/news/19403197.senior-councillor-calls-new-greenock-cycle-lane-scrapped/
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,894

    Sandpit said:

    So PBers are watching tennis, cycling and F1 at the moment. Any other sports on?

    Irish open golf
    Excellent horse racing at Haydock and Sandown this afternoon. Small but select field for the Eclipse.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,926
    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Emma Raducanu through to next round.

    Who will she face?
    Ajla Tomljanović.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,351
    stodge said:

    The justification for removing restrictions would be that vaccination means we don't need the restrictions to control the spread of the virus. Given that this is self-evidently not because the vaccines are providing herd immunity, driving virus incidence to zero, then it follows that it would be because we don't need to control the spread of the virus, because we are willing to accept everyone catching it, because vaccination means the consequences of that are not severe enough to justify countermeasures.

    So, yes, implication is that we don't need to require people to self-isolate.

    Uncomfortable and unpleasant as it is, I find myself in agreement with @Philip_Thompson and others calling for the end of the lockdown restrictions.

    The situation has descended into a spider's web of inconsistencies and misconceptions where 45,000 can fetch up for a tennis match but people still can't attend the grandchild's birthday party,

    As I've witnessed both last night and today, the restrictions are ending spontaneously as people decide they can't or won't continue with, for example, mask wearing on public transport or in shops/supermarkets. The issue is enforcement or rather the lack of it. There seems a complete breakdown of any serious attempt to enforce what is in effect the law.

    That begs the question - what's the point of the law if no one is going to enforce it? It's not worth all the notices, announcements and veiled threats.

    If you wish to wear a mask on public transport or social distance, that's absolutely your right - every individual has the right to be as risk-averse as they wish - but it can no longer be a "requirement". We have the idiocy of doubly-jabbed (and therefore mostly safe) individuals wearing masks while unvaccinated younger people (who may be carrying the virus asymptomatically or not) don't bother.

    That's just crossed the Rubicon of Absurdity.

    As others have said, we now have to "live" with the virus - continuing efforts to get more people vaccinated, accepting the particular risks for the highly vulnerable such as those with poor immune symptoms, developing better treatments for "long Covid" and improving vaccines.
    The issue around isolation rules is definitely one to address. And not just for the double jabbed, given the long delay there will be in vaccinating schoolchildren (if we ever do).
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Andy_JS said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Emma Raducanu through to next round.

    Who will she face?
    Ajla Tomljanović.
    Who is lower ranked than Cirstea.

    Whisper it, but there is potential for a quarter-final showdown with Ashleigh Barty here...
  • Options
    MaffewMaffew Posts: 235
    MattW said:

    An absolutely horrible cycling facility, and the best grimace I have seen on the face of a Councillor for a bit.

    "I know, let's block the end so people get thrown off their bikes in the dark."



    https://www.greenocktelegraph.co.uk/news/19403197.senior-councillor-calls-new-greenock-cycle-lane-scrapped/

    Blimey that's poor design. I always think that whoever designs and signs off on cycling infrastructure should have to cycle up and down it a few times afterwards, preferably with their children. That would put a quick end to some of the appallingly unsafe designs out there.
  • Options
    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,017
    She played supreme tennis in that 8 game stretch, but I think having to cope with the Cirstea comeback and losing that 15 minute game showed that she’s also got the grit that great tennis players need.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,874
    Emma Raducanu - half Romanian, half Chinese - is one of those immigrants PBers love to complain about.

    No, I don’t mean *her*, they protest.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,147
    Andy_JS said:

    Emma Raducanu through to next round.

    Great result. Her opponent might feel hard done by
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    ydoethur said:

    stodge said:

    The justification for removing restrictions would be that vaccination means we don't need the restrictions to control the spread of the virus. Given that this is self-evidently not because the vaccines are providing herd immunity, driving virus incidence to zero, then it follows that it would be because we don't need to control the spread of the virus, because we are willing to accept everyone catching it, because vaccination means the consequences of that are not severe enough to justify countermeasures.

    So, yes, implication is that we don't need to require people to self-isolate.

    Uncomfortable and unpleasant as it is, I find myself in agreement with @Philip_Thompson and others calling for the end of the lockdown restrictions.

    The situation has descended into a spider's web of inconsistencies and misconceptions where 45,000 can fetch up for a tennis match but people still can't attend the grandchild's birthday party,

    As I've witnessed both last night and today, the restrictions are ending spontaneously as people decide they can't or won't continue with, for example, mask wearing on public transport or in shops/supermarkets. The issue is enforcement or rather the lack of it. There seems a complete breakdown of any serious attempt to enforce what is in effect the law.

    That begs the question - what's the point of the law if no one is going to enforce it? It's not worth all the notices, announcements and veiled threats.

    If you wish to wear a mask on public transport or social distance, that's absolutely your right - every individual has the right to be as risk-averse as they wish - but it can no longer be a "requirement". We have the idiocy of doubly-jabbed (and therefore mostly safe) individuals wearing masks while unvaccinated younger people (who may be carrying the virus asymptomatically or not) don't bother.

    That's just crossed the Rubicon of Absurdity.

    As others have said, we now have to "live" with the virus - continuing efforts to get more people vaccinated, accepting the particular risks for the highly vulnerable such as those with poor immune symptoms, developing better treatments for "long Covid" and improving vaccines.
    The issue around isolation rules is definitely one to address. And not just for the double jabbed, given the long delay there will be in vaccinating schoolchildren (if we ever do).
    It would be sensible to exempt both the double jabbed and schoolchildren, although that will cover so much of the population by the end of the Summer that mass testing might as well be abandoned at that juncture. Would be more sensible to go back to just monitoring hospitals and care homes.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,147

    Emma Raducanu - half Romanian, half Chinese - is one of those immigrants PBers love to complain about.

    No, I don’t mean *her*, they protest.

    And Canadian
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    borisatsunborisatsun Posts: 188

    Emma Raducanu - half Romanian, half Chinese - is one of those immigrants PBers love to complain about.

    No, I don’t mean *her*, they protest.

    I can't remember the last time I wasn't complaining about Canadian born immigrants.
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,894
    darkage said:


    People are just tired of the rules. They don't take them seriously but pretend to go along with them because they don't want to break the law. It is just a really stupid situation, you have to go one way or the other, not a half freedom that imposes huge costs and has little or no benefit.

    The other aspect is the whole "testing" regimen.

    I could just about understand the need for Test & Trace last year - now, there's no point, It should be turned off, the App uninstalled etc.

    There's also the "testing fanatics" - one organisation with which I'm familiar has "suggested" every member of staff tests twice a week (even if doubly vaccinated).

    Now, I understand those with symptoms taking the test (and there's an argument trying to get a statistical handle on the numbers of asymptomatic isn't a bad idea) but the notion we should all be doing lateral flow tests or PCR tests or whatever ad infinitum is just ridiculous.

    If I were a bluff old cynic, I'd say it was a ploy to increase the profits of those supplying the tests, none of whom could possibly have any links with the Government or Ministers....
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    isamisam Posts: 40,989

    isam said:

    More of this please


    Brendan Cox
    @MrBrendanCox

    Elections are bruising and it takes bravery to stand. Thank you to @Stephenson_Ryan for fighting the campaign on the issues and not pandering to divisions. We may disagree on a lot but he’s a good man and has more to give.

    Hate to be the cynic, but I see this as a back handed dig at GG
    Should Galloway be treated with generosity and admiration?
    Don’t really care, but it seems to me the praise for the Tory is really a dig at him. Like a girl at a high school prom making a show of saying what a nice dress someone has on in order to make someone else feel bad
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,358
    isam said:

    isam said:

    More of this please


    Brendan Cox
    @MrBrendanCox

    Elections are bruising and it takes bravery to stand. Thank you to @Stephenson_Ryan for fighting the campaign on the issues and not pandering to divisions. We may disagree on a lot but he’s a good man and has more to give.

    Hate to be the cynic, but I see this as a back handed dig at GG
    Should Galloway be treated with generosity and admiration?
    Don’t really care, but it seems to me the praise for the Tory is really a dig at him. Like a girl at a high school prom making a show of saying what a nice dress someone has on in order to make someone else feel bad
    Whether it is or not it is a refreshing comment to make and it was reciprocated
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,526
    MattW said:

    An absolutely horrible cycling facility, and the best grimace I have seen on the face of a Councillor for a bit.

    "I know, let's block the end so people get thrown off their bikes in the dark."



    https://www.greenocktelegraph.co.uk/news/19403197.senior-councillor-calls-new-greenock-cycle-lane-scrapped/

    Ideal training for the Tour de France from what we've seen this week.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,351
    stodge said:

    darkage said:


    People are just tired of the rules. They don't take them seriously but pretend to go along with them because they don't want to break the law. It is just a really stupid situation, you have to go one way or the other, not a half freedom that imposes huge costs and has little or no benefit.

    The other aspect is the whole "testing" regimen.

    I could just about understand the need for Test & Trace last year - now, there's no point, It should be turned off, the App uninstalled etc.

    There's also the "testing fanatics" - one organisation with which I'm familiar has "suggested" every member of staff tests twice a week (even if doubly vaccinated).

    Now, I understand those with symptoms taking the test (and there's an argument trying to get a statistical handle on the numbers of asymptomatic isn't a bad idea) but the notion we should all be doing lateral flow tests or PCR tests or whatever ad infinitum is just ridiculous.

    If I were a bluff old cynic, I'd say it was a ploy to increase the profits of those supplying the tests, none of whom could possibly have any links with the Government or Ministers....
    Cynic: what an idealist calls a realist.

    (C) Sir Humphrey Appleby.
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    RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,977
    Take a bow Norris. And Russell..
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,053
    Spare a thought for Leigh Halfpenny. Playing his 100th international and he's going off after less than a minute.
This discussion has been closed.