Are we missing the obvious in Batley & Spen – Hancock and a narrowing of the poll gap? – politicalbe
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Much depends on where you build them - as you say, it depends on the energy mix of the electric grid.Phil said:
That’s because electric cars are kind of bad for the environment, at least in terms of CO2 emissions, especially if you build them in Germany!Sandpit said:
Yet Germany have managed to turn the Tesla factory into the new Berlin Airport. It’s almost physically finished, but is going to take potentially years to get all the permissions in place to start operating. Oh, and a bunch of environmentalists (yes, really) are trying to get an injunction against the plant, because electric cars bad, or something.Malmesbury said:
Yes - to replace the ICE production capacity for the UK market will require multiple battery plants on this scale.Foxy said:
Nissan plans are largely based on the UK market IMO. The internal combustion engine is nearly dead. It was broadly a choice between winding down the operation or building a battery factory. In a world of protectionism, it is good to have a foothold in the UK market. Tens of millions of cars here are going to be replaced with EV.SouthamObserver said:
That never happened, of course. What the EU can do is close its markets to goods and services made by companies subsidised by the UK taxpayer. Hopefully, though, the UK government will not be throwing public money at businesses that then cannot export their goods because of decisions the UK government has made elsewhere.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The EU dictating UK investment decisions to the UK government is overSouthamObserver said:
Investment decisions will surely be based on access to markets into which to sell, so the EU is not over. It's just that the relationship and dependency is different.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The EU are over and the UK will decide on investments and jobsStuartDickson said:
All governments recently signed a “level playing field” treaty, but one of the signatories was crossing their fingers behind their back. Guess which one.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am sorry but investing in the future green economy is essential and is actively promoted by all governmentsOldKingCole said:
The BBC also says thatBig_G_NorthWales said:
I hadn't thought about that but if so good politicsbeentheredonethat said:
Absolutely coincidental that this announced on by Election DayBig_G_NorthWales said:Breaking
Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland
'The government is contributing to the cost of the expansion, but a precise figure has not been disclosed.'
Ion other words, a massive handout. Some might call it a bribe.
On the subject of state aid - it hasn't gone away in the EU. Just been moderated. The Tesla factory near Berlin came with various helpful contributions from various levels of government, for instance.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2021/05/18/the-rules-even-tesla-berlin-gigafactory-elon-musk-cant-break/
Another huge opportunity for the UK.
The reason is because electric cars require a lot more energy to construct than equivalent ICE vehicles - mostly the batteries. So if you make your batteries & build your car in a country with a very high fossil fuel % in it’s electrical grid, like Germany (thanks to their mad anti-nuclear stance) you pump out a huge amount of CO2 before the car even rolls out of the plant.
After it’s built, an electric car has low carbon emissions to the extent that local electrical generation is low carbon, which eventually makes up for those early carbon emissions in most places. But the breakeven point is something like 100,000 miles in many countries right now. Or at least it was last time I saw this calculation - as we de-carbonise the grid, this figure will improve of course. It’s probably lower in the UK than in Germany right now I would imagine.
Plus, there’s all the carbon emissions required to build + maintain a very expensive road network. Oh, and mining the battery raw materials. Electric cars are not the obvious environmental no brainer some would have you think.
There are two very definite improvements electric vehicles bring though: 1) lower road noise (no engine!) & 2) zero emissions in cities, which will make a huge difference to quality of life once we’ve electrified everything.
In Belgium, or the UK, it's far lower than in Germany and they break even after only about 10,000 miles.1 -
Yes, the main issue was getting the first company committed. I've heard that there are around 5-7 deals in the pipeline in addition to the two existing commitments.Nigelb said:
Sounds about right - though they'll probably export a few to Europe.Foxy said:
Nissan plans are largely based on the UK market IMO. The internal combustion engine is nearly dead. It was broadly a choice between winding down the operation or building a battery factory. In a world of protectionism, it is good to have a foothold in the UK market. Tens of millions of cars here are going to be replaced with EV.SouthamObserver said:
That never happened, of course. What the EU can do is close its markets to goods and services made by companies subsidised by the UK taxpayer. Hopefully, though, the UK government will not be throwing public money at businesses that then cannot export their goods because of decisions the UK government has made elsewhere.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The EU dictating UK investment decisions to the UK government is overSouthamObserver said:
Investment decisions will surely be based on access to markets into which to sell, so the EU is not over. It's just that the relationship and dependency is different.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The EU are over and the UK will decide on investments and jobsStuartDickson said:
All governments recently signed a “level playing field” treaty, but one of the signatories was crossing their fingers behind their back. Guess which one.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am sorry but investing in the future green economy is essential and is actively promoted by all governmentsOldKingCole said:
The BBC also says thatBig_G_NorthWales said:
I hadn't thought about that but if so good politicsbeentheredonethat said:
Absolutely coincidental that this announced on by Election DayBig_G_NorthWales said:Breaking
Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland
'The government is contributing to the cost of the expansion, but a precise figure has not been disclosed.'
Ion other words, a massive handout. Some might call it a bribe.
As far as subsidies are concerned, it looks pretty similar to what's been going on in the EU - except the number of committed projects is an order of magnitude larger.
Germany alone will have a good 10x the production of the Nissan plant by 2025, and there are plants being built in Hungary, Poland, France, Sweden etc.
We're off to a slow start, but at least it's a start.
Another interesting rumour is that the government is casting around for medium sized player to build a large scale multi-node silicon foundry but not at the bleeding edge of 5nm and 7nm, instead looking at 14nm to 45nm where there is a huge amount of demand forecast for the next 15 years from the EV industry as well as loads of others like image sensors. I know the Japanese government has approached Sony, Renesas and a few other mid-level players for the same reasons. I've heard that Sony are in advanced talks to expand their existing operations in Japan by 2-3x for older nodes with a huge government subsidy (around $8bn) and those chips will feed into the car industry as well as their own image and other sensor division.1 -
Domaine de la Romanée-ContiCharles said:
I guess we could bully DRC if we need to, but it’s also why China is spending so much effort thereDavidL said:
Good. Fully committing ourselves to a technology which China can control by regulating the supply of key ingredients looks to me a strategic error of the first water. We cannot allow ourselves to be beholden to Xi's China.Charles said:
I believe they are also in Mojave and in DRCDavidL said:
A further challenge is that many of the rare earths needed for the batteries come from China. There is some evidence that there are significant deposits in Greenland and I think that the pressure to develop these will be immense. Can't see many environmentalists loving very large scale mining going on there.Phil said:
That’s because electric cars are kind of bad for the environment, at least in terms of CO2 emissions, especially if you build them in Germany!Sandpit said:
Yet Germany have managed to turn the Tesla factory into the new Berlin Airport. It’s almost physically finished, but is going to take potentially years to get all the permissions in place to start operating. Oh, and a bunch of environmentalists (yes, really) are trying to get an injunction against the plant, because electric cars bad, or something.Malmesbury said:
Yes - to replace the ICE production capacity for the UK market will require multiple battery plants on this scale.Foxy said:
Nissan plans are largely based on the UK market IMO. The internal combustion engine is nearly dead. It was broadly a choice between winding down the operation or building a battery factory. In a world of protectionism, it is good to have a foothold in the UK market. Tens of millions of cars here are going to be replaced with EV.SouthamObserver said:
That never happened, of course. What the EU can do is close its markets to goods and services made by companies subsidised by the UK taxpayer. Hopefully, though, the UK government will not be throwing public money at businesses that then cannot export their goods because of decisions the UK government has made elsewhere.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The EU dictating UK investment decisions to the UK government is overSouthamObserver said:
Investment decisions will surely be based on access to markets into which to sell, so the EU is not over. It's just that the relationship and dependency is different.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The EU are over and the UK will decide on investments and jobsStuartDickson said:
All governments recently signed a “level playing field” treaty, but one of the signatories was crossing their fingers behind their back. Guess which one.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am sorry but investing in the future green economy is essential and is actively promoted by all governmentsOldKingCole said:
The BBC also says thatBig_G_NorthWales said:
I hadn't thought about that but if so good politicsbeentheredonethat said:
Absolutely coincidental that this announced on by Election DayBig_G_NorthWales said:Breaking
Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland
'The government is contributing to the cost of the expansion, but a precise figure has not been disclosed.'
Ion other words, a massive handout. Some might call it a bribe.
On the subject of state aid - it hasn't gone away in the EU. Just been moderated. The Tesla factory near Berlin came with various helpful contributions from various levels of government, for instance.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2021/05/18/the-rules-even-tesla-berlin-gigafactory-elon-musk-cant-break/
Another huge opportunity for the UK.
The reason is because electric cars require a lot more energy to construct than equivalent ICE vehicles - mostly the batteries. So if you make your batteries & build your car in a country with a very high fossil fuel % in it’s electrical grid, like Germany (thanks to their mad anti-nuclear stance) you pump out a huge amount of CO2 before the car even rolls out of the plant.
After it’s built, an electric car has low carbon emissions to the extent that local electrical generation is low carbon, which eventually makes up for those early carbon emissions in most places. But the breakeven point is something like 100,000 miles in many countries right now. Or at least it was last time I saw this calculation - as we de-carbonise the grid, this figure will improve of course. It’s probably lower in the UK than in Germany right now I would imagine.
Plus, there’s all the carbon emissions required to build + maintain a very expensive road network. Oh, and mining the battery raw materials. Electric cars are not the obvious environmental no brainer some would have you think.
There are two very definite improvements electric vehicles bring though: 1) lower road noise (no engine!) & 2) zero emissions in cities, which will make a huge difference to quality of life once we’ve electrified everything.
Edit: it’s either Domaine de Romanee-Conte or Democratic Republic of Congo…
Where would PB be without its pedant wing.4 -
Chancellor confirms that UK has given up trying to secure greater access to EU markets for financial services firms.
City of London has been largely cut off since Brexit completed at end of last year.
Sunak says deal on equivalence “has not happened”.
https://twitter.com/ITVJoel/status/1410518270319468545?s=20
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“The EU are over”?! What does that mean?Big_G_NorthWales said:
The EU are over and the UK will decide on investments and jobsStuartDickson said:
All governments recently signed a “level playing field” treaty, but one of the signatories was crossing their fingers behind their back. Guess which one.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am sorry but investing in the future green economy is essential and is actively promoted by all governmentsOldKingCole said:
The BBC also says thatBig_G_NorthWales said:
I hadn't thought about that but if so good politicsbeentheredonethat said:
Absolutely coincidental that this announced on by Election DayBig_G_NorthWales said:Breaking
Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland
'The government is contributing to the cost of the expansion, but a precise figure has not been disclosed.'
Ion other words, a massive handout. Some might call it a bribe.
If the EU are “over”, why is the BritNat regime so desperate to sign treaties with that faded power? You don’t usually sign deals with defunct entities.
The Yookay cannot “decide” on investment and jobs if such decisions break international treaties it has just signed.1 -
Mind you, if there is a shortage of DRC, there is a Malaysian chap who can knock up a batch at short notice.....TOPPING said:
Domaine de la Romanée-ContiCharles said:
I guess we could bully DRC if we need to, but it’s also why China is spending so much effort thereDavidL said:
Good. Fully committing ourselves to a technology which China can control by regulating the supply of key ingredients looks to me a strategic error of the first water. We cannot allow ourselves to be beholden to Xi's China.Charles said:
I believe they are also in Mojave and in DRCDavidL said:
A further challenge is that many of the rare earths needed for the batteries come from China. There is some evidence that there are significant deposits in Greenland and I think that the pressure to develop these will be immense. Can't see many environmentalists loving very large scale mining going on there.Phil said:
That’s because electric cars are kind of bad for the environment, at least in terms of CO2 emissions, especially if you build them in Germany!Sandpit said:
Yet Germany have managed to turn the Tesla factory into the new Berlin Airport. It’s almost physically finished, but is going to take potentially years to get all the permissions in place to start operating. Oh, and a bunch of environmentalists (yes, really) are trying to get an injunction against the plant, because electric cars bad, or something.Malmesbury said:
Yes - to replace the ICE production capacity for the UK market will require multiple battery plants on this scale.Foxy said:
Nissan plans are largely based on the UK market IMO. The internal combustion engine is nearly dead. It was broadly a choice between winding down the operation or building a battery factory. In a world of protectionism, it is good to have a foothold in the UK market. Tens of millions of cars here are going to be replaced with EV.SouthamObserver said:
That never happened, of course. What the EU can do is close its markets to goods and services made by companies subsidised by the UK taxpayer. Hopefully, though, the UK government will not be throwing public money at businesses that then cannot export their goods because of decisions the UK government has made elsewhere.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The EU dictating UK investment decisions to the UK government is overSouthamObserver said:
Investment decisions will surely be based on access to markets into which to sell, so the EU is not over. It's just that the relationship and dependency is different.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The EU are over and the UK will decide on investments and jobsStuartDickson said:
All governments recently signed a “level playing field” treaty, but one of the signatories was crossing their fingers behind their back. Guess which one.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am sorry but investing in the future green economy is essential and is actively promoted by all governmentsOldKingCole said:
The BBC also says thatBig_G_NorthWales said:
I hadn't thought about that but if so good politicsbeentheredonethat said:
Absolutely coincidental that this announced on by Election DayBig_G_NorthWales said:Breaking
Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland
'The government is contributing to the cost of the expansion, but a precise figure has not been disclosed.'
Ion other words, a massive handout. Some might call it a bribe.
On the subject of state aid - it hasn't gone away in the EU. Just been moderated. The Tesla factory near Berlin came with various helpful contributions from various levels of government, for instance.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2021/05/18/the-rules-even-tesla-berlin-gigafactory-elon-musk-cant-break/
Another huge opportunity for the UK.
The reason is because electric cars require a lot more energy to construct than equivalent ICE vehicles - mostly the batteries. So if you make your batteries & build your car in a country with a very high fossil fuel % in it’s electrical grid, like Germany (thanks to their mad anti-nuclear stance) you pump out a huge amount of CO2 before the car even rolls out of the plant.
After it’s built, an electric car has low carbon emissions to the extent that local electrical generation is low carbon, which eventually makes up for those early carbon emissions in most places. But the breakeven point is something like 100,000 miles in many countries right now. Or at least it was last time I saw this calculation - as we de-carbonise the grid, this figure will improve of course. It’s probably lower in the UK than in Germany right now I would imagine.
Plus, there’s all the carbon emissions required to build + maintain a very expensive road network. Oh, and mining the battery raw materials. Electric cars are not the obvious environmental no brainer some would have you think.
There are two very definite improvements electric vehicles bring though: 1) lower road noise (no engine!) & 2) zero emissions in cities, which will make a huge difference to quality of life once we’ve electrified everything.
Edit: it’s either Domaine de Romanee-Conte or Democratic Republic of Congo…
Where would PB be without its pedant wing.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5728684/0 -
They won't even sell that many unless the factory is building the kind of batteries that Nissan have so far refused to touch. Stick a modern big capacity heated and cooled battery with a new efficient motor or two into a Qashqai and a Juke and they may have something. Use the plant to churn out the same tired technology into a 15 year old Leaf and they won't have something.MattW said:
It's worth a note that this is initially 100k car batteres per year, rising to potentially 200k.RochdalePioneers said:
This is brilliant news both for sustainability and for the NE of England. Hopefully it brings some long-term future to the Nissan plant and doesn't just become an expensive white elephant when they later announce car production is to end anyway.Big_G_NorthWales said:Breaking
Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland
Nissan and EVs at the moment are the brand whose batteries and motors get harvested for classic cars to be converted. They aren't a brand even on the radar for most new converts to electric as their technology is over a decade old.
Hopefully the new factory allows them to develop a battery which they can fit alongside new motors into something like a Qashqai as they'd sell loads. They can't keep peddling the Leaf which may as well have flintstone-style square wheels its so out of date.
That is about 18-20% of normal UK car production.
So we need another 4 or 5 similar to meet domestic, then perhaps extra capacity for export.0 -
England, the Country with a capital C.squareroot2 said:
Rogerdamus to call.it for Labourfelix said:
You may be right but the polling evidence really is not there for such a claim. The goverNEneedent has had a rough week or so and the press is hostile but these kind of ts oftTge Toen flare up only to fizzle out again. All we need is a Grauniead - ' the day the polls turned' and we head back to square oTne.Cocky_cockney said:Mike is right. Labour are value.
It's a risky one though, unlike C&A which felt like one of those golden tips that seemed right: thank you again, Mike: your tip paid for my day at Wimbledon yesterday among many other things!
Peak Boris was May 25th. There is a discernible and definite shift now.
The one thing which might lift the Conservatives back is if England win Euro 2020 in front of a full house at Wembley. Otherwise the tide has turned.
The Tories need Rogerdamus to call it for Labour... that would be game over 🤣🤣felix said:
You've referred to 2 polls. RW over the past month has seen 2 moves to Labour and 2 back to the Tories. CR has seen a move to Labour from what was an unusually high Tory lead. The current poll average of all has barely changed over the past year. This site is about speculating what things mean. As I said I expect a Labour hold.Cocky_cockney said:
The evidence is there and it's you that is speculating that it will fizzle out.felix said:
You may be right but the polling evidence really is not there for such a claim. The government has had a rough week or so and the press is hostile but these kind of things often flare up only to fizzle out again. All we need is a Grauniead - ' the day the polls turned' and we head back to square one.Cocky_cockney said:Mike is right. Labour are value.
It's a risky one though, unlike C&A which felt like one of those golden tips that seemed right: thank you again, Mike: your tip paid for my day at Wimbledon yesterday among many other things!
Peak Boris was May 25th. There is a discernible and definite shift now.
The one thing which might lift the Conservatives back is if England win Euro 2020 in front of a full house at Wembley. Otherwise the tide has turned.
Has anyone factored in the euphoria of the Country having turned over the Germans...
Screams insecurity. (And ironically, is über-Deutsch.)0 -
Other interesting snippet from KK's R4 interview today was, when it was put to him that Germany has many more times the KW capacity (someone tell me what that means and why it is relevant) than the UK, he said: well Germany has a long history of building cars.
Has he completely forgotten British Leyland et al. But also some proper car manufacturers here. I mean the very company he was on the air to talk about has been here since 1986.0 -
As many on here will know, I don't think Brexit was a sensible policy, in fact I think it was and is insane. However, I think in terms of our dealings with the EU bloc there is something to be said to playing them at their own game. The French have long ignored EU rules when it didn't suit them and nothing happened. We always played by the rules and generally got shafted. I am not keen on having a dishonest PM, but in the realpolitik of international relations there may be some upsides.StuartDickson said:
I think it is sad that anyone would break an international treaty that they signed so recently the ink isn’t dry. Sad and very, very serious.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I think it is sad that anyone would support the EU v the UK investing in green technology and jobsStuartDickson said:
The EU will be taking those unilateral "appropriate remedial measures" described in the TCA. Batten down the hatches.OldKingCole said:
The BBC also says thatBig_G_NorthWales said:
I hadn't thought about that but if so good politicsbeentheredonethat said:
Absolutely coincidental that this announced on by Election DayBig_G_NorthWales said:Breaking
Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland
'The government is contributing to the cost of the expansion, but a precise figure has not been disclosed.'
Ion other words, a massive handout. Some might call it a bribe.5 -
Back Korea. Their drivetrain is amazingly efficient, they are absolutely smashing it in design, build quality is right up there, and a 5 year unlimited mileage warranty.Dura_Ace said:
The Leaf is junk but the EV conversion scene seems to be moving toward butchering Tesla 3s and using the FreedomEV firmware on it.RochdalePioneers said:
Nissan and EVs at the moment are the brand whose batteries and motors get harvested for classic cars to be converted. They aren't a brand even on the radar for most new converts to electric as their technology is over a decade old.
VAG seem to have the best strategy (if not the best products) for the EV revolution and the Japanese OEMs look slightly lost by tinkering with multiple technologies and not committing to one.1 -
Excellent. If you had been in Huntingdon the boss could have cycled down the guided busway, including in winter submarining the bits they didn't afford to raise above flood levelJosiasJessop said:
That's actually what we used to do: Mrs J didn't drive, and we'd just move to near she was working. Hence we moved frequently around the country. She learnt to drive, as she felt it was unfair for me to be taxiing her everywhere.MattW said:
Going purist for a mo, can you move somewhere different and just not have a car?JosiasJessop said:
Personally, I don't give a flying f*** about 'cachet' in a car. I just want something that will perform the job I want it to do with minimal fuss and cost. Heck, I even drive an automatic ...Dura_Ace said:Since they killed the R35 I think it's fair to say that Nissan no longer make a single car that has any merit or cachet whatsoever. It's a long way down for the company that gave us the Z, the GTR and the S chassis.
I don't particularly like driving; it is a thing that lets me do what I want to do. When I buy a new car, trifling little matters like safety matter more than 0-60.
It's surprising how many of my friends feel the same way (Caterham-7 builders notwithstanding). The car isn't particularly a status symbol; it's a tool.
Very possible ... plenty of people are unable to drive for medical reasons.
But then we bought a house within walking distance of her workplace and had a kid. That company was taken over by a larger one, and she had to commute into Cambridge. Then she moved to another company down in Harlow.
If we'd had to move, we'd have had to move three times - and we like where we live, and the little 'un is settled in school. Besides, we'd have to live in (shudders) Harlow ...
A Cambourne to Harlow trip by public transport is *interesting*.
1 -
Very good Charles, but the fact is that the Conservative and Unionist Party needs you good, honest, competent, straightforward, pleasant folk upfront and centre stage, not arguing with nobodies on an obscure blog.Charles said:
We’ve found other ways to serveStuartDickson said:
What never fizzles out is Tory sleaze. The events of the last week fit into a recognisable pattern going back many decades.felix said:
You may be right but the polling evidence really is not there for such a claim. The government has had a rough week or so and the press is hostile but these kind of things often flare up only to fizzle out again. All we need is a Grauniead - ' the day the polls turned' and we head back to square one.Cocky_cockney said:Mike is right. Labour are value.
It's a risky one though, unlike C&A which felt like one of those golden tips that seemed right: thank you again, Mike: your tip paid for my day at Wimbledon yesterday among many other things!
Peak Boris was May 25th. There is a discernible and definite shift now.
The one thing which might lift the Conservatives back is if England win Euro 2020 in front of a full house at Wembley. Otherwise the tide has turned.
What the Tories need is a generation of nice people. Good, honest, competent, straightforward, pleasant folk with no “side”. When one looks at the coming generation of young Tories one sees the exact opposite. Tory sleaze is going to be around for at least a half century to come.2 -
One of the idiots (not a "thug" in my opinion - just a rowdy antisocial idiot) who harassed Chris Whitty in St James's Park has now lost his job...as an estate agent. A gain or a loss for estate agency? You decide...1
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Indeed - if the UK had adopted such policies (which I advocated), Brexit wouldn't have happened.Nigel_Foremain said:
As many on here will know, I don't think Brexit was a sensible policy, in fact I think it was and is insane. However, I think in terms of our dealings with the EU bloc there is something to be said to playing them at their own game. The French have long ignored EU rules when it didn't suit them and nothing happened. We always played by the rules and generally got shafted. I am not keen on having a dishonest PM, but in the realpolitik of international relations there may be some upsides.StuartDickson said:
I think it is sad that anyone would break an international treaty that they signed so recently the ink isn’t dry. Sad and very, very serious.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I think it is sad that anyone would support the EU v the UK investing in green technology and jobsStuartDickson said:
The EU will be taking those unilateral "appropriate remedial measures" described in the TCA. Batten down the hatches.OldKingCole said:
The BBC also says thatBig_G_NorthWales said:
I hadn't thought about that but if so good politicsbeentheredonethat said:
Absolutely coincidental that this announced on by Election DayBig_G_NorthWales said:Breaking
Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland
'The government is contributing to the cost of the expansion, but a precise figure has not been disclosed.'
Ion other words, a massive handout. Some might call it a bribe.1 -
My memory of growing up in the 80s was that people moved quite frequently for work. It doesn't seem to happen any more - not least because families are typically reliant on two earners, so the ability of earner 1 to get a new job 100 miles away is greatly inhibited by earner 2's need to remain accessible to that individual's own job.MattW said:
Excellent.JosiasJessop said:
That's actually what we used to do: Mrs J didn't drive, and we'd just move to near she was working. Hence we moved frequently around the country. She learnt to drive, as she felt it was unfair for me to be taxiing her everywhere.MattW said:
Going purist for a mo, can you move somewhere different and just not have a car?JosiasJessop said:
Personally, I don't give a flying f*** about 'cachet' in a car. I just want something that will perform the job I want it to do with minimal fuss and cost. Heck, I even drive an automatic ...Dura_Ace said:Since they killed the R35 I think it's fair to say that Nissan no longer make a single car that has any merit or cachet whatsoever. It's a long way down for the company that gave us the Z, the GTR and the S chassis.
I don't particularly like driving; it is a thing that lets me do what I want to do. When I buy a new car, trifling little matters like safety matter more than 0-60.
It's surprising how many of my friends feel the same way (Caterham-7 builders notwithstanding). The car isn't particularly a status symbol; it's a tool.
Very possible ... plenty of people are unable to drive for medical reasons.
But then we bought a house within walking distance of her workplace and had a kid. That company was taken over by a larger one, and she had to commute into Cambridge. Then she moved to another company down in Harlow.
If we'd had to move, we'd have had to move three times - and we like where we live, and the little 'un is settled in school. Besides, we'd have to live in (shudders) Harlow ...
A Cambourne to Harlow trip by public transport is *interesting*.2 -
Didn't we suggest that the building of a local foundry for legacy work was almost essential.MaxPB said:
Yes, the main issue was getting the first company committed. I've heard that there are around 5-7 deals in the pipeline in addition to the two existing commitments.Nigelb said:
Sounds about right - though they'll probably export a few to Europe.Foxy said:
Nissan plans are largely based on the UK market IMO. The internal combustion engine is nearly dead. It was broadly a choice between winding down the operation or building a battery factory. In a world of protectionism, it is good to have a foothold in the UK market. Tens of millions of cars here are going to be replaced with EV.SouthamObserver said:
That never happened, of course. What the EU can do is close its markets to goods and services made by companies subsidised by the UK taxpayer. Hopefully, though, the UK government will not be throwing public money at businesses that then cannot export their goods because of decisions the UK government has made elsewhere.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The EU dictating UK investment decisions to the UK government is overSouthamObserver said:
Investment decisions will surely be based on access to markets into which to sell, so the EU is not over. It's just that the relationship and dependency is different.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The EU are over and the UK will decide on investments and jobsStuartDickson said:
All governments recently signed a “level playing field” treaty, but one of the signatories was crossing their fingers behind their back. Guess which one.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am sorry but investing in the future green economy is essential and is actively promoted by all governmentsOldKingCole said:
The BBC also says thatBig_G_NorthWales said:
I hadn't thought about that but if so good politicsbeentheredonethat said:
Absolutely coincidental that this announced on by Election DayBig_G_NorthWales said:Breaking
Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland
'The government is contributing to the cost of the expansion, but a precise figure has not been disclosed.'
Ion other words, a massive handout. Some might call it a bribe.
As far as subsidies are concerned, it looks pretty similar to what's been going on in the EU - except the number of committed projects is an order of magnitude larger.
Germany alone will have a good 10x the production of the Nissan plant by 2025, and there are plants being built in Hungary, Poland, France, Sweden etc.
We're off to a slow start, but at least it's a start.
Another interesting rumour is that the government is casting around for medium sized player to build a large scale multi-node silicon foundry but not at the bleeding edge of 5nm and 7nm, instead looking at 14nm to 45nm where there is a huge amount of demand forecast for the next 15 years from the EV industry as well as loads of others like image sensors. I know the Japanese government has approached Sony, Renesas and a few other mid-level players for the same reasons. I've heard that Sony are in advanced talks to expand their existing operations in Japan by 2-3x for older nodes with a huge government subsidy (around $8bn) and those chips will feed into the car industry as well as their own image and other sensor division.
Would love to know who they are approaching to do it - I think everyone in charge of the last attempt (Siemens in Cobalt Park / North Tyneside) has now retired from Infineon (the closure of that site is why their global IT is in Klagenfurt rather than Munich).0 -
Yes, they spent that much money on the misguided bus, and still had the access track go down for a few hundred metres in a few places. Blooming idiots.MattW said:
Excellent. If you had been in Huntingdon the boss could have cycled down the guided busway, including in winter submarining the bits they didn't afford to raise above flood levelJosiasJessop said:
That's actually what we used to do: Mrs J didn't drive, and we'd just move to near she was working. Hence we moved frequently around the country. She learnt to drive, as she felt it was unfair for me to be taxiing her everywhere.MattW said:
Going purist for a mo, can you move somewhere different and just not have a car?JosiasJessop said:
Personally, I don't give a flying f*** about 'cachet' in a car. I just want something that will perform the job I want it to do with minimal fuss and cost. Heck, I even drive an automatic ...Dura_Ace said:Since they killed the R35 I think it's fair to say that Nissan no longer make a single car that has any merit or cachet whatsoever. It's a long way down for the company that gave us the Z, the GTR and the S chassis.
I don't particularly like driving; it is a thing that lets me do what I want to do. When I buy a new car, trifling little matters like safety matter more than 0-60.
It's surprising how many of my friends feel the same way (Caterham-7 builders notwithstanding). The car isn't particularly a status symbol; it's a tool.
Very possible ... plenty of people are unable to drive for medical reasons.
But then we bought a house within walking distance of her workplace and had a kid. That company was taken over by a larger one, and she had to commute into Cambridge. Then she moved to another company down in Harlow.
If we'd had to move, we'd have had to move three times - and we like where we live, and the little 'un is settled in school. Besides, we'd have to live in (shudders) Harlow ...
A Cambourne to Harlow trip by public transport is *interesting*.
I've walked and run the busway many times; I've also walked most of the route when it was still a (heavily overgrown) railway line ...0 -
Ha yes I listened to that as a podcast (Cheat) the other day. Absolutely fascinating.Malmesbury said:
Mind you, if there is a shortage of DRC, there is a Malaysian chap who can knock up a batch at short notice.....TOPPING said:
Domaine de la Romanée-ContiCharles said:
I guess we could bully DRC if we need to, but it’s also why China is spending so much effort thereDavidL said:
Good. Fully committing ourselves to a technology which China can control by regulating the supply of key ingredients looks to me a strategic error of the first water. We cannot allow ourselves to be beholden to Xi's China.Charles said:
I believe they are also in Mojave and in DRCDavidL said:
A further challenge is that many of the rare earths needed for the batteries come from China. There is some evidence that there are significant deposits in Greenland and I think that the pressure to develop these will be immense. Can't see many environmentalists loving very large scale mining going on there.Phil said:
That’s because electric cars are kind of bad for the environment, at least in terms of CO2 emissions, especially if you build them in Germany!Sandpit said:
Yet Germany have managed to turn the Tesla factory into the new Berlin Airport. It’s almost physically finished, but is going to take potentially years to get all the permissions in place to start operating. Oh, and a bunch of environmentalists (yes, really) are trying to get an injunction against the plant, because electric cars bad, or something.Malmesbury said:
Yes - to replace the ICE production capacity for the UK market will require multiple battery plants on this scale.Foxy said:
Nissan plans are largely based on the UK market IMO. The internal combustion engine is nearly dead. It was broadly a choice between winding down the operation or building a battery factory. In a world of protectionism, it is good to have a foothold in the UK market. Tens of millions of cars here are going to be replaced with EV.SouthamObserver said:
That never happened, of course. What the EU can do is close its markets to goods and services made by companies subsidised by the UK taxpayer. Hopefully, though, the UK government will not be throwing public money at businesses that then cannot export their goods because of decisions the UK government has made elsewhere.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The EU dictating UK investment decisions to the UK government is overSouthamObserver said:
Investment decisions will surely be based on access to markets into which to sell, so the EU is not over. It's just that the relationship and dependency is different.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The EU are over and the UK will decide on investments and jobsStuartDickson said:
All governments recently signed a “level playing field” treaty, but one of the signatories was crossing their fingers behind their back. Guess which one.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am sorry but investing in the future green economy is essential and is actively promoted by all governmentsOldKingCole said:
The BBC also says thatBig_G_NorthWales said:
I hadn't thought about that but if so good politicsbeentheredonethat said:
Absolutely coincidental that this announced on by Election DayBig_G_NorthWales said:Breaking
Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland
'The government is contributing to the cost of the expansion, but a precise figure has not been disclosed.'
Ion other words, a massive handout. Some might call it a bribe.
On the subject of state aid - it hasn't gone away in the EU. Just been moderated. The Tesla factory near Berlin came with various helpful contributions from various levels of government, for instance.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2021/05/18/the-rules-even-tesla-berlin-gigafactory-elon-musk-cant-break/
Another huge opportunity for the UK.
The reason is because electric cars require a lot more energy to construct than equivalent ICE vehicles - mostly the batteries. So if you make your batteries & build your car in a country with a very high fossil fuel % in it’s electrical grid, like Germany (thanks to their mad anti-nuclear stance) you pump out a huge amount of CO2 before the car even rolls out of the plant.
After it’s built, an electric car has low carbon emissions to the extent that local electrical generation is low carbon, which eventually makes up for those early carbon emissions in most places. But the breakeven point is something like 100,000 miles in many countries right now. Or at least it was last time I saw this calculation - as we de-carbonise the grid, this figure will improve of course. It’s probably lower in the UK than in Germany right now I would imagine.
Plus, there’s all the carbon emissions required to build + maintain a very expensive road network. Oh, and mining the battery raw materials. Electric cars are not the obvious environmental no brainer some would have you think.
There are two very definite improvements electric vehicles bring though: 1) lower road noise (no engine!) & 2) zero emissions in cities, which will make a huge difference to quality of life once we’ve electrified everything.
Edit: it’s either Domaine de Romanee-Conte or Democratic Republic of Congo…
Where would PB be without its pedant wing.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5728684/0 -
We made a decision when our child was born to stay local. I ended up doing some horrendous commutes but i believe it was worth it for his stability.Cookie said:
My memory of growing up in the 80s was that people moved quite frequently for work. It doesn't seem to happen any more - not least because families are typically reliant on two earners, so the ability of earner 1 to get a new job 100 miles away is greatly inhibited by earner 2's need to remain accessible to that individual's own job.MattW said:
Excellent.JosiasJessop said:
That's actually what we used to do: Mrs J didn't drive, and we'd just move to near she was working. Hence we moved frequently around the country. She learnt to drive, as she felt it was unfair for me to be taxiing her everywhere.MattW said:
Going purist for a mo, can you move somewhere different and just not have a car?JosiasJessop said:
Personally, I don't give a flying f*** about 'cachet' in a car. I just want something that will perform the job I want it to do with minimal fuss and cost. Heck, I even drive an automatic ...Dura_Ace said:Since they killed the R35 I think it's fair to say that Nissan no longer make a single car that has any merit or cachet whatsoever. It's a long way down for the company that gave us the Z, the GTR and the S chassis.
I don't particularly like driving; it is a thing that lets me do what I want to do. When I buy a new car, trifling little matters like safety matter more than 0-60.
It's surprising how many of my friends feel the same way (Caterham-7 builders notwithstanding). The car isn't particularly a status symbol; it's a tool.
Very possible ... plenty of people are unable to drive for medical reasons.
But then we bought a house within walking distance of her workplace and had a kid. That company was taken over by a larger one, and she had to commute into Cambridge. Then she moved to another company down in Harlow.
If we'd had to move, we'd have had to move three times - and we like where we live, and the little 'un is settled in school. Besides, we'd have to live in (shudders) Harlow ...
A Cambourne to Harlow trip by public transport is *interesting*.
Now he is grown up we moved. After uni, because of lockdown, he has moved back with us.0 -
Yes I emailed my MP toMaxPB said:I think Labour would have won had Hancock tried to stick around. His resignation wipes away the crime to enough of an extent for the majority of people.
let him know that I didn't want my lay of Labour in Batley to be scuppered by Hancockrid the country of the twerp.
I think as others have pointed out the win over Germany and quick leaving made sure it was a short news cycle on him.1 -
On topic - any views on whether this by-election will see a lot of postal votes or not? If a lot, limited effect from Hancock et al. If not much, Mike might be onto something.0
-
One advantage of London at the time was once you picked the station you wanted to commute into, there was little need to move as you switched job.Cookie said:
My memory of growing up in the 80s was that people moved quite frequently for work. It doesn't seem to happen any more - not least because families are typically reliant on two earners, so the ability of earner 1 to get a new job 100 miles away is greatly inhibited by earner 2's need to remain accessible to that individual's own job.MattW said:
Excellent.JosiasJessop said:
That's actually what we used to do: Mrs J didn't drive, and we'd just move to near she was working. Hence we moved frequently around the country. She learnt to drive, as she felt it was unfair for me to be taxiing her everywhere.MattW said:
Going purist for a mo, can you move somewhere different and just not have a car?JosiasJessop said:
Personally, I don't give a flying f*** about 'cachet' in a car. I just want something that will perform the job I want it to do with minimal fuss and cost. Heck, I even drive an automatic ...Dura_Ace said:Since they killed the R35 I think it's fair to say that Nissan no longer make a single car that has any merit or cachet whatsoever. It's a long way down for the company that gave us the Z, the GTR and the S chassis.
I don't particularly like driving; it is a thing that lets me do what I want to do. When I buy a new car, trifling little matters like safety matter more than 0-60.
It's surprising how many of my friends feel the same way (Caterham-7 builders notwithstanding). The car isn't particularly a status symbol; it's a tool.
Very possible ... plenty of people are unable to drive for medical reasons.
But then we bought a house within walking distance of her workplace and had a kid. That company was taken over by a larger one, and she had to commute into Cambridge. Then she moved to another company down in Harlow.
If we'd had to move, we'd have had to move three times - and we like where we live, and the little 'un is settled in school. Besides, we'd have to live in (shudders) Harlow ...
A Cambourne to Harlow trip by public transport is *interesting*.0 -
Don't forget Huawei are/were due to build a new plant at Sawston, near Cambridge. I think that was only an R&D fab, not a production one, and I'm unsure if it's still going ahead given the recent developments in Huawei's relationship with the government.MaxPB said:
Yes, the main issue was getting the first company committed. I've heard that there are around 5-7 deals in the pipeline in addition to the two existing commitments.Nigelb said:
Sounds about right - though they'll probably export a few to Europe.Foxy said:
Nissan plans are largely based on the UK market IMO. The internal combustion engine is nearly dead. It was broadly a choice between winding down the operation or building a battery factory. In a world of protectionism, it is good to have a foothold in the UK market. Tens of millions of cars here are going to be replaced with EV.SouthamObserver said:
That never happened, of course. What the EU can do is close its markets to goods and services made by companies subsidised by the UK taxpayer. Hopefully, though, the UK government will not be throwing public money at businesses that then cannot export their goods because of decisions the UK government has made elsewhere.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The EU dictating UK investment decisions to the UK government is overSouthamObserver said:
Investment decisions will surely be based on access to markets into which to sell, so the EU is not over. It's just that the relationship and dependency is different.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The EU are over and the UK will decide on investments and jobsStuartDickson said:
All governments recently signed a “level playing field” treaty, but one of the signatories was crossing their fingers behind their back. Guess which one.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am sorry but investing in the future green economy is essential and is actively promoted by all governmentsOldKingCole said:
The BBC also says thatBig_G_NorthWales said:
I hadn't thought about that but if so good politicsbeentheredonethat said:
Absolutely coincidental that this announced on by Election DayBig_G_NorthWales said:Breaking
Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland
'The government is contributing to the cost of the expansion, but a precise figure has not been disclosed.'
Ion other words, a massive handout. Some might call it a bribe.
As far as subsidies are concerned, it looks pretty similar to what's been going on in the EU - except the number of committed projects is an order of magnitude larger.
Germany alone will have a good 10x the production of the Nissan plant by 2025, and there are plants being built in Hungary, Poland, France, Sweden etc.
We're off to a slow start, but at least it's a start.
Another interesting rumour is that the government is casting around for medium sized player to build a large scale multi-node silicon foundry but not at the bleeding edge of 5nm and 7nm, instead looking at 14nm to 45nm where there is a huge amount of demand forecast for the next 15 years from the EV industry as well as loads of others like image sensors. I know the Japanese government has approached Sony, Renesas and a few other mid-level players for the same reasons. I've heard that Sony are in advanced talks to expand their existing operations in Japan by 2-3x for older nodes with a huge government subsidy (around $8bn) and those chips will feed into the car industry as well as their own image and other sensor division.
Anecdotally, Huawei's reputation as an employer in the industry is *not* good. 'Don't touch them with a bargepole' seems to be a common sentiment.0 -
The answer is that it depends on which country you're in.Nigel_Foremain said:
Useful post thank you. I am thinking of getting a fully electric car, but have to confess it is because it is 1% BIK if I put it through my company. I am also fortunate because I can park it on my own property and charge it there, rather than on a street. . I also quite like the fact that if I drive into our nearby city (15 miles away) I am not helping to gas the children there, though the local buses are having a good go at that on their own!Phil said:
That’s because electric cars are kind of bad for the environment, at least in terms of CO2 emissions, especially if you build them in Germany!Sandpit said:
Yet Germany have managed to turn the Tesla factory into the new Berlin Airport. It’s almost physically finished, but is going to take potentially years to get all the permissions in place to start operating. Oh, and a bunch of environmentalists (yes, really) are trying to get an injunction against the plant, because electric cars bad, or something.Malmesbury said:
Yes - to replace the ICE production capacity for the UK market will require multiple battery plants on this scale.Foxy said:
Nissan plans are largely based on the UK market IMO. The internal combustion engine is nearly dead. It was broadly a choice between winding down the operation or building a battery factory. In a world of protectionism, it is good to have a foothold in the UK market. Tens of millions of cars here are going to be replaced with EV.SouthamObserver said:
That never happened, of course. What the EU can do is close its markets to goods and services made by companies subsidised by the UK taxpayer. Hopefully, though, the UK government will not be throwing public money at businesses that then cannot export their goods because of decisions the UK government has made elsewhere.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The EU dictating UK investment decisions to the UK government is overSouthamObserver said:
Investment decisions will surely be based on access to markets into which to sell, so the EU is not over. It's just that the relationship and dependency is different.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The EU are over and the UK will decide on investments and jobsStuartDickson said:
All governments recently signed a “level playing field” treaty, but one of the signatories was crossing their fingers behind their back. Guess which one.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am sorry but investing in the future green economy is essential and is actively promoted by all governmentsOldKingCole said:
The BBC also says thatBig_G_NorthWales said:
I hadn't thought about that but if so good politicsbeentheredonethat said:
Absolutely coincidental that this announced on by Election DayBig_G_NorthWales said:Breaking
Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland
'The government is contributing to the cost of the expansion, but a precise figure has not been disclosed.'
Ion other words, a massive handout. Some might call it a bribe.
On the subject of state aid - it hasn't gone away in the EU. Just been moderated. The Tesla factory near Berlin came with various helpful contributions from various levels of government, for instance.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2021/05/18/the-rules-even-tesla-berlin-gigafactory-elon-musk-cant-break/
Another huge opportunity for the UK.
The reason is because electric cars require a lot more energy to construct than equivalent ICE vehicles - mostly the batteries. So if you make your batteries & build your car in a country with a very high fossil fuel % in it’s electrical grid, like Germany (thanks to their mad anti-nuclear stance) you pump out a huge amount of CO2 before the car even rolls out of the plant.
After it’s built, an electric car has low carbon emissions to the extent that local electrical generation is low carbon, which eventually makes up for those early carbon emissions in most places. But the breakeven point is something like 100,000 miles in many countries right now. Or at least it was last time I saw this calculation - as we de-carbonise the grid, this figure will improve of course. It’s probably lower in the UK than in Germany right now I would imagine.
Plus, there’s all the carbon emissions required to build + maintain a very expensive road network. Oh, and mining the battery raw materials. Electric cars are not the obvious environmental no brainer some would have you think.
There are two very definite improvements electric vehicles bring though: 1) lower road noise (no engine!) & 2) zero emissions in cities, which will make a huge difference to quality of life once we’ve electrified everything.
Current breakeven against ICE is somewhere around 25,000 km in France (thanks to their nuclear), versus 153,000 km in China (coal generation).
https://about.bnef.com/blog/the-lifecycle-emissions-of-electric-vehicles/
So even in China, EVs already make environmental sense, and we're a lot closer to France than China in CO2 per kW generated. And of course pretty well all countries will improve their generation mix in carbon terms over the next decade, and batteries will improve in efficiency every year - incrementally through production improvements, and at some point dramatically with new chemistries.0 -
I would expect so - certainly Labour and the LibDems always push for postal votes. Covid has only amplified the drive for people to vote remotely. Honestly can't see the non-sacking of Mancock making much of an impact.MrEd said:On topic - any views on whether this by-election will see a lot of postal votes or not? If a lot, limited effect from Hancock et al. If not much, Mike might be onto something.
0 -
Can't see many miners loving very large scale mining going on there either. Brrr.DavidL said:
A further challenge is that many of the rare earths needed for the batteries come from China. There is some evidence that there are significant deposits in Greenland and I think that the pressure to develop these will be immense. Can't see many environmentalists loving very large scale mining going on there.Phil said:
That’s because electric cars are kind of bad for the environment, at least in terms of CO2 emissions, especially if you build them in Germany!Sandpit said:
Yet Germany have managed to turn the Tesla factory into the new Berlin Airport. It’s almost physically finished, but is going to take potentially years to get all the permissions in place to start operating. Oh, and a bunch of environmentalists (yes, really) are trying to get an injunction against the plant, because electric cars bad, or something.Malmesbury said:
Yes - to replace the ICE production capacity for the UK market will require multiple battery plants on this scale.Foxy said:
Nissan plans are largely based on the UK market IMO. The internal combustion engine is nearly dead. It was broadly a choice between winding down the operation or building a battery factory. In a world of protectionism, it is good to have a foothold in the UK market. Tens of millions of cars here are going to be replaced with EV.SouthamObserver said:
That never happened, of course. What the EU can do is close its markets to goods and services made by companies subsidised by the UK taxpayer. Hopefully, though, the UK government will not be throwing public money at businesses that then cannot export their goods because of decisions the UK government has made elsewhere.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The EU dictating UK investment decisions to the UK government is overSouthamObserver said:
Investment decisions will surely be based on access to markets into which to sell, so the EU is not over. It's just that the relationship and dependency is different.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The EU are over and the UK will decide on investments and jobsStuartDickson said:
All governments recently signed a “level playing field” treaty, but one of the signatories was crossing their fingers behind their back. Guess which one.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am sorry but investing in the future green economy is essential and is actively promoted by all governmentsOldKingCole said:
The BBC also says thatBig_G_NorthWales said:
I hadn't thought about that but if so good politicsbeentheredonethat said:
Absolutely coincidental that this announced on by Election DayBig_G_NorthWales said:Breaking
Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland
'The government is contributing to the cost of the expansion, but a precise figure has not been disclosed.'
Ion other words, a massive handout. Some might call it a bribe.
On the subject of state aid - it hasn't gone away in the EU. Just been moderated. The Tesla factory near Berlin came with various helpful contributions from various levels of government, for instance.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2021/05/18/the-rules-even-tesla-berlin-gigafactory-elon-musk-cant-break/
Another huge opportunity for the UK.
The reason is because electric cars require a lot more energy to construct than equivalent ICE vehicles - mostly the batteries. So if you make your batteries & build your car in a country with a very high fossil fuel % in it’s electrical grid, like Germany (thanks to their mad anti-nuclear stance) you pump out a huge amount of CO2 before the car even rolls out of the plant.
After it’s built, an electric car has low carbon emissions to the extent that local electrical generation is low carbon, which eventually makes up for those early carbon emissions in most places. But the breakeven point is something like 100,000 miles in many countries right now. Or at least it was last time I saw this calculation - as we de-carbonise the grid, this figure will improve of course. It’s probably lower in the UK than in Germany right now I would imagine.
Plus, there’s all the carbon emissions required to build + maintain a very expensive road network. Oh, and mining the battery raw materials. Electric cars are not the obvious environmental no brainer some would have you think.
There are two very definite improvements electric vehicles bring though: 1) lower road noise (no engine!) & 2) zero emissions in cities, which will make a huge difference to quality of life once we’ve electrified everything.1 -
I will say this for Nissan: that VR30DDTT motor hits hard. They put really good turbos on it (Honeywell-Garrett not Aliexpress spinny boiz) and the heads flow mad numbers (300cfm/min). The new Z will be good value and great tuner car but they needed it in 2016 not 2022.Sandpit said:
The new 400Z looks good - but European markets won’t be getting it.Dura_Ace said:Since they killed the R35 I think it's fair to say that Nissan no longer make a single car that has any merit or cachet whatsoever. It's a long way down for the company that gave us the Z, the GTR and the S chassis.
They should have used their Mercedes connection get the EQC tech and done a BEV sports car called the 'eZ'.0 -
Get ‘em young.
https://twitter.com/georgemonbiot/status/1410518152849526784?s=21
‘This is what @bbcbitesize is teaching our children about climate breakdown. I'm sorry, but it's an absolute disgrace. You could come away thinking: "on balance, it sounds pretty good". It could have been written by Exxon.
(h/t: @NickShepley)
bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guide…’
‘Here is one of the "positive" aspects of the collapse of our life support systems it lists: "more resources, such as oil, becoming available in places such as Alaska and Siberia when the ice melts".
Are they actually trying to misdirect and bamboozle GCSE students’
‘And, apparently, "warmer temperatures could lead to healthier outdoor lifestyles".
FFS’0 -
Good if it happens, as we've next to no silicon engineering outside research.MaxPB said:
Yes, the main issue was getting the first company committed. I've heard that there are around 5-7 deals in the pipeline in addition to the two existing commitments.Nigelb said:
Sounds about right - though they'll probably export a few to Europe.Foxy said:
Nissan plans are largely based on the UK market IMO. The internal combustion engine is nearly dead. It was broadly a choice between winding down the operation or building a battery factory. In a world of protectionism, it is good to have a foothold in the UK market. Tens of millions of cars here are going to be replaced with EV.SouthamObserver said:
That never happened, of course. What the EU can do is close its markets to goods and services made by companies subsidised by the UK taxpayer. Hopefully, though, the UK government will not be throwing public money at businesses that then cannot export their goods because of decisions the UK government has made elsewhere.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The EU dictating UK investment decisions to the UK government is overSouthamObserver said:
Investment decisions will surely be based on access to markets into which to sell, so the EU is not over. It's just that the relationship and dependency is different.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The EU are over and the UK will decide on investments and jobsStuartDickson said:
All governments recently signed a “level playing field” treaty, but one of the signatories was crossing their fingers behind their back. Guess which one.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am sorry but investing in the future green economy is essential and is actively promoted by all governmentsOldKingCole said:
The BBC also says thatBig_G_NorthWales said:
I hadn't thought about that but if so good politicsbeentheredonethat said:
Absolutely coincidental that this announced on by Election DayBig_G_NorthWales said:Breaking
Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland
'The government is contributing to the cost of the expansion, but a precise figure has not been disclosed.'
Ion other words, a massive handout. Some might call it a bribe.
As far as subsidies are concerned, it looks pretty similar to what's been going on in the EU - except the number of committed projects is an order of magnitude larger.
Germany alone will have a good 10x the production of the Nissan plant by 2025, and there are plants being built in Hungary, Poland, France, Sweden etc.
We're off to a slow start, but at least it's a start.
Another interesting rumour is that the government is casting around for medium sized player to build a large scale multi-node silicon foundry but not at the bleeding edge of 5nm and 7nm, instead looking at 14nm to 45nm where there is a huge amount of demand forecast for the next 15 years from the EV industry as well as loads of others like image sensors. I know the Japanese government has approached Sony, Renesas and a few other mid-level players for the same reasons. I've heard that Sony are in advanced talks to expand their existing operations in Japan by 2-3x for older nodes with a huge government subsidy (around $8bn) and those chips will feed into the car industry as well as their own image and other sensor division.
(Note the most interesting graphene company in terms of applicability to current chip production technology (Paragraf) is British.)0 -
In fairness, neither Holyrood nor Stormont are one party states. No party has a majority in the legislatures, and they this need to regularly negotiate with other parties to get ministers appointed, budgets approved and legislation passed. This keeps you on your toes!Foxy said:
Yes, I think that until there is independence the SNP with all its many faults and infighting will dominate Scotland. Afterwards it can safely be dissolved, into rival parties, and more functional politics.StuartDickson said:
The SNP will wither away post-independence. I, and many other members, will leave and help build new, normal parties. Our goal is for Scotland to be a normal country.Foxy said:
Sleaze comes when a party is so long in power that they think that they can get away with anything and still get elected.felix said:
No sleaze in the SNP thankfully. Salmond and Sturgeon say Hi..StuartDickson said:
What never fizzles out is Tory sleaze. The events of the last week fit into a recognisable pattern going back many decades.felix said:
You may be right but the polling evidence really is not there for such a claim. The government has had a rough week or so and the press is hostile but these kind of things often flare up only to fizzle out again. All we need is a Grauniead - ' the day the polls turned' and we head back to square one.Cocky_cockney said:Mike is right. Labour are value.
It's a risky one though, unlike C&A which felt like one of those golden tips that seemed right: thank you again, Mike: your tip paid for my day at Wimbledon yesterday among many other things!
Peak Boris was May 25th. There is a discernible and definite shift now.
The one thing which might lift the Conservatives back is if England win Euro 2020 in front of a full house at Wembley. Otherwise the tide has turned.
What the Tories need is a generation of nice people. Good, honest, competent, straightforward, pleasant folk with no “side”. When one looks at the coming generation of young Tories one sees the exact opposite. Tory sleaze is going to be around for at least a half century to come.
People like @Big_G_NorthWales will vote for a donkey with a blue rosette, and in Scotland will vote SNP until independence. Only after that will Scottish politics return to competitive parties.
One party states are not good, whether SNP in Holyrood, Labour in Cardiff, DUP in Stormont or Tory in Westminster. They all generate sleaze when hegemonic.
And Drakeford’s Welsh Labour does not seem to be as entitled, arrogant and sleazy as Scottish Labour once was when it had hegemony.
No, the exception is Westminster. The entire system is pretty much designed to bake in sleaze when hegemonic. And the entire system is designed to be hegemonic.2 -
NB. Here’s a BBC news article on lifetime CO2 emissions of electric vs ICE vehicles.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-51977625
Claims electric is 30% less than ICE in the UK right now. 70% in France, with it’s high nuclear %.
I imagine this is what’s behind the anti Tesla case in Germany: the argument will be that this isn’t enough to meet the required drop in CO2 emissions & so building more cars instead of transitioning away from cars is a mistake.
In Germany they might be right, because of their mad anti-nuclear stance as previously noted. It looks like we’re on track to de-carbonising our electrical grid in the UK though so I think a 70% drop in personal transport CO2 emissions is a lot better than nothing...0 -
On UNS Labour should hold Batley and Spen on the latest polls and unlike Hartlepool the 2019 Tory + BXP vote was not bigger than the Labour vote.
However how many Labour voters go to Galloway and how many Heavy Woollen voters go to For Britain, UKIP and the English Democrats rather than the Tories will be key1 -
There have been 2 hung parliaments at Westminster in the last 10 years even without PRStuartDickson said:
In fairness, neither Holyrood nor Stormont are one party states. No party has a majority in the legislatures, and they this need to regularly negotiate with other parties to get ministers appointed, budgets approved and legislation passed. This keeps you on your toes!Foxy said:
Yes, I think that until there is independence the SNP with all its many faults and infighting will dominate Scotland. Afterwards it can safely be dissolved, into rival parties, and more functional politics.StuartDickson said:
The SNP will wither away post-independence. I, and many other members, will leave and help build new, normal parties. Our goal is for Scotland to be a normal country.Foxy said:
Sleaze comes when a party is so long in power that they think that they can get away with anything and still get elected.felix said:
No sleaze in the SNP thankfully. Salmond and Sturgeon say Hi..StuartDickson said:
What never fizzles out is Tory sleaze. The events of the last week fit into a recognisable pattern going back many decades.felix said:
You may be right but the polling evidence really is not there for such a claim. The government has had a rough week or so and the press is hostile but these kind of things often flare up only to fizzle out again. All we need is a Grauniead - ' the day the polls turned' and we head back to square one.Cocky_cockney said:Mike is right. Labour are value.
It's a risky one though, unlike C&A which felt like one of those golden tips that seemed right: thank you again, Mike: your tip paid for my day at Wimbledon yesterday among many other things!
Peak Boris was May 25th. There is a discernible and definite shift now.
The one thing which might lift the Conservatives back is if England win Euro 2020 in front of a full house at Wembley. Otherwise the tide has turned.
What the Tories need is a generation of nice people. Good, honest, competent, straightforward, pleasant folk with no “side”. When one looks at the coming generation of young Tories one sees the exact opposite. Tory sleaze is going to be around for at least a half century to come.
People like @Big_G_NorthWales will vote for a donkey with a blue rosette, and in Scotland will vote SNP until independence. Only after that will Scottish politics return to competitive parties.
One party states are not good, whether SNP in Holyrood, Labour in Cardiff, DUP in Stormont or Tory in Westminster. They all generate sleaze when hegemonic.
And Drakeford’s Welsh Labour does not seem to be as entitled, arrogant and sleazy as Scottish Labour once was when it had hegemony.
No, the exception is Westminster. The entire system is pretty much designed to bake in sleaze when hegemonic. And the entire system is designed to be hegemonic.1 -
7 year/100 000 miles with Kia. I am very pleased with my environment over the last year, and a genuine 270 mile range in warm weather, 230 or so on frosty dark winter days with heating and lights on and cold batteries.RochdalePioneers said:
Back Korea. Their drivetrain is amazingly efficient, they are absolutely smashing it in design, build quality is right up there, and a 5 year unlimited mileage warranty.Dura_Ace said:
The Leaf is junk but the EV conversion scene seems to be moving toward butchering Tesla 3s and using the FreedomEV firmware on it.RochdalePioneers said:
Nissan and EVs at the moment are the brand whose batteries and motors get harvested for classic cars to be converted. They aren't a brand even on the radar for most new converts to electric as their technology is over a decade old.
VAG seem to have the best strategy (if not the best products) for the EV revolution and the Japanese OEMs look slightly lost by tinkering with multiple technologies and not committing to one.
The build quality is very good indeed, well ahead of anything that I have had before.2 -
Like mining in Greenland?Theuniondivvie said:Get ‘em young.
https://twitter.com/georgemonbiot/status/1410518152849526784?s=21
‘This is what @bbcbitesize is teaching our children about climate breakdown. I'm sorry, but it's an absolute disgrace. You could come away thinking: "on balance, it sounds pretty good". It could have been written by Exxon.
(h/t: @NickShepley)
bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guide…’
‘Here is one of the "positive" aspects of the collapse of our life support systems it lists: "more resources, such as oil, becoming available in places such as Alaska and Siberia when the ice melts".
Are they actually trying to misdirect and bamboozle GCSE students’
‘And, apparently, "warmer temperatures could lead to healthier outdoor lifestyles".
FFS’0 -
Mr. Divvie, reminds me of more mammoth ivory becoming accessible.
Note: if you buy any don't wear it on a plane. Michelle Obama had difficulty persuading staff it wasn't from an elephant, and the average person will have an even harder time.0 -
Not commenting on this particular story, but one of the issues I have with climate alarmism is the assumption that everything will be worse/terrible/extinction worthy. Just not true. There have been wildly different climates in the past. Raising the seas 10m will be catastrophic for cities and humans who live there. But the seas will still be there. Far greater problems are caused by our relentless use of the landscape - deforestation and natural resource depletion than by temperature changes.Theuniondivvie said:Get ‘em young.
https://twitter.com/georgemonbiot/status/1410518152849526784?s=21
‘This is what @bbcbitesize is teaching our children about climate breakdown. I'm sorry, but it's an absolute disgrace. You could come away thinking: "on balance, it sounds pretty good". It could have been written by Exxon.
(h/t: @NickShepley)
bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guide…’
‘Here is one of the "positive" aspects of the collapse of our life support systems it lists: "more resources, such as oil, becoming available in places such as Alaska and Siberia when the ice melts".
Are they actually trying to misdirect and bamboozle GCSE students’
‘And, apparently, "warmer temperatures could lead to healthier outdoor lifestyles".
FFS’
And as a friend said yesterday - the only way to really stop things would be no human babies for the next 100 years - the problem would solve itself.0 -
Big G’s statement that “the EU is over” neatly illustrates why the Conservative Party is not fit for purpose. Even moderates like Big G have now embraced the culture war. The past is alterable. The past never has been altered. Yookania is at war with Redpassportland. Yookania has always been at war with Redpassportland.SouthamObserver said:
Investment decisions will surely be based on access to markets into which to sell, so the EU is not over. It's just that the relationship and dependency is different.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The EU are over and the UK will decide on investments and jobsStuartDickson said:
All governments recently signed a “level playing field” treaty, but one of the signatories was crossing their fingers behind their back. Guess which one.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am sorry but investing in the future green economy is essential and is actively promoted by all governmentsOldKingCole said:
The BBC also says thatBig_G_NorthWales said:
I hadn't thought about that but if so good politicsbeentheredonethat said:
Absolutely coincidental that this announced on by Election DayBig_G_NorthWales said:Breaking
Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland
'The government is contributing to the cost of the expansion, but a precise figure has not been disclosed.'
Ion other words, a massive handout. Some might call it a bribe.4 -
But only briefly, as a total % of that decade, and you need to take a wider timescale. The Holyrood and Cardiff Bay parliaments have been largely hung for their existences in the 20th century, depending on how you define the current situation at Holyrood (not sure about Stormont, it's a bit of a special case anyway).HYUFD said:
There have been 2 hung parliaments at Westminster in the last 10 years even without PRStuartDickson said:
In fairness, neither Holyrood nor Stormont are one party states. No party has a majority in the legislatures, and they this need to regularly negotiate with other parties to get ministers appointed, budgets approved and legislation passed. This keeps you on your toes!Foxy said:
Yes, I think that until there is independence the SNP with all its many faults and infighting will dominate Scotland. Afterwards it can safely be dissolved, into rival parties, and more functional politics.StuartDickson said:
The SNP will wither away post-independence. I, and many other members, will leave and help build new, normal parties. Our goal is for Scotland to be a normal country.Foxy said:
Sleaze comes when a party is so long in power that they think that they can get away with anything and still get elected.felix said:
No sleaze in the SNP thankfully. Salmond and Sturgeon say Hi..StuartDickson said:
What never fizzles out is Tory sleaze. The events of the last week fit into a recognisable pattern going back many decades.felix said:
You may be right but the polling evidence really is not there for such a claim. The government has had a rough week or so and the press is hostile but these kind of things often flare up only to fizzle out again. All we need is a Grauniead - ' the day the polls turned' and we head back to square one.Cocky_cockney said:Mike is right. Labour are value.
It's a risky one though, unlike C&A which felt like one of those golden tips that seemed right: thank you again, Mike: your tip paid for my day at Wimbledon yesterday among many other things!
Peak Boris was May 25th. There is a discernible and definite shift now.
The one thing which might lift the Conservatives back is if England win Euro 2020 in front of a full house at Wembley. Otherwise the tide has turned.
What the Tories need is a generation of nice people. Good, honest, competent, straightforward, pleasant folk with no “side”. When one looks at the coming generation of young Tories one sees the exact opposite. Tory sleaze is going to be around for at least a half century to come.
People like @Big_G_NorthWales will vote for a donkey with a blue rosette, and in Scotland will vote SNP until independence. Only after that will Scottish politics return to competitive parties.
One party states are not good, whether SNP in Holyrood, Labour in Cardiff, DUP in Stormont or Tory in Westminster. They all generate sleaze when hegemonic.
And Drakeford’s Welsh Labour does not seem to be as entitled, arrogant and sleazy as Scottish Labour once was when it had hegemony.
No, the exception is Westminster. The entire system is pretty much designed to bake in sleaze when hegemonic. And the entire system is designed to be hegemonic.1 -
Prediction time.HYUFD said:On UNS Labour should hold Batley and Spen on the latest polls and unlike Hartlepool the 2019 Tory + BXP vote was not bigger than the Labour vote.
However how many Labour voters go to Galloway and how many Heavy Woollen voters go to For Britain, UKIP and the English Democrats rather than the Tories will be key
Con, 43
Lab, 41
Glw, 8
Oth, 81 -
It's the wonder of Woolies.HYUFD said:On UNS Labour should hold Batley and Spen on the latest polls and unlike Hartlepool the 2019 Tory + BXP vote was not bigger than the Labour vote.
However how many Labour voters go to Galloway and how many Heavy Woollen voters go to For Britain, UKIP and the English Democrats rather than the Tories will be key
There's one for the teenagers.2 -
I don’t think that’s quite what Big G meant, rather than the EU is over as a key influence on domestic policy.StuartDickson said:
Big G’s statement that “the EU is over” neatly illustrates why the Conservative Party is not fit for purpose. Even moderates like Big G have now embraced the culture war. The past is alterable. The past never has been altered. Yookania is at war with Redpassportland. Yookania has always been at war with Redpassportland.SouthamObserver said:
Investment decisions will surely be based on access to markets into which to sell, so the EU is not over. It's just that the relationship and dependency is different.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The EU are over and the UK will decide on investments and jobsStuartDickson said:
All governments recently signed a “level playing field” treaty, but one of the signatories was crossing their fingers behind their back. Guess which one.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am sorry but investing in the future green economy is essential and is actively promoted by all governmentsOldKingCole said:
The BBC also says thatBig_G_NorthWales said:
I hadn't thought about that but if so good politicsbeentheredonethat said:
Absolutely coincidental that this announced on by Election DayBig_G_NorthWales said:Breaking
Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland
'The government is contributing to the cost of the expansion, but a precise figure has not been disclosed.'
Ion other words, a massive handout. Some might call it a bribe.
But your general point is correct.
Nevertheless, the Brexity culture warriors know their cause is both potent and fragile; hence the government’s bung to the totemic Nissan.4 -
Well, this might explain some things:
https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1410510512543129600
🚨 | NEW: Teenagers are using lemon juice to fake positive Covid tests and get whole classes sent home from school
Via @theipaper1 -
Got to say I find it fascinating that some are wibbling about the culture war, such as it is, being a rightwing thing.
The only rightwing thing (and it's leftwing too because plenty on the left are highly dubious of the imported tosh) is a reaction to people who thing iconoclasm is cool, kneeling to race-baiters is a good idea, and men should be able to compete in women's sports.3 -
Of the last 10 year period from 2011-2021, 6 out of those 10 years ie 60% saw a hung parliament at Westminster and no majority for any party.Carnyx said:
But only briefly, as a total % of that decade, and you need to take a wider timescale. The Holyrood and Cardiff Bay parliaments have been largely hung for their existences in the 20th century, depending on how you define the current situation at Holyrood (not sure about Stormont, it's a bit of a special case anyway).HYUFD said:
There have been 2 hung parliaments at Westminster in the last 10 years even without PRStuartDickson said:
In fairness, neither Holyrood nor Stormont are one party states. No party has a majority in the legislatures, and they this need to regularly negotiate with other parties to get ministers appointed, budgets approved and legislation passed. This keeps you on your toes!Foxy said:
Yes, I think that until there is independence the SNP with all its many faults and infighting will dominate Scotland. Afterwards it can safely be dissolved, into rival parties, and more functional politics.StuartDickson said:
The SNP will wither away post-independence. I, and many other members, will leave and help build new, normal parties. Our goal is for Scotland to be a normal country.Foxy said:
Sleaze comes when a party is so long in power that they think that they can get away with anything and still get elected.felix said:
No sleaze in the SNP thankfully. Salmond and Sturgeon say Hi..StuartDickson said:
What never fizzles out is Tory sleaze. The events of the last week fit into a recognisable pattern going back many decades.felix said:
You may be right but the polling evidence really is not there for such a claim. The government has had a rough week or so and the press is hostile but these kind of things often flare up only to fizzle out again. All we need is a Grauniead - ' the day the polls turned' and we head back to square one.Cocky_cockney said:Mike is right. Labour are value.
It's a risky one though, unlike C&A which felt like one of those golden tips that seemed right: thank you again, Mike: your tip paid for my day at Wimbledon yesterday among many other things!
Peak Boris was May 25th. There is a discernible and definite shift now.
The one thing which might lift the Conservatives back is if England win Euro 2020 in front of a full house at Wembley. Otherwise the tide has turned.
What the Tories need is a generation of nice people. Good, honest, competent, straightforward, pleasant folk with no “side”. When one looks at the coming generation of young Tories one sees the exact opposite. Tory sleaze is going to be around for at least a half century to come.
People like @Big_G_NorthWales will vote for a donkey with a blue rosette, and in Scotland will vote SNP until independence. Only after that will Scottish politics return to competitive parties.
One party states are not good, whether SNP in Holyrood, Labour in Cardiff, DUP in Stormont or Tory in Westminster. They all generate sleaze when hegemonic.
And Drakeford’s Welsh Labour does not seem to be as entitled, arrogant and sleazy as Scottish Labour once was when it had hegemony.
No, the exception is Westminster. The entire system is pretty much designed to bake in sleaze when hegemonic. And the entire system is designed to be hegemonic.
The SNP had a majority at Holyrood from 2011-2016 when the Tories did not have a majority at Westminster, even if the SNP now lack a majority and the Tories have one0 -
Yes there's a lot of evidence by now.tlg86 said:Does anyone know if there is any evidence that doubled vaccinated people are less likely to spread COVID? It appears to me as though the vaccines may help a little bit but not completely.
The reason I ask is that for The Open golf championship, you either have to show you've been doubled jabbed or have proof of a negative lateral flow test within 48 hours of attending the event. That seems unfair to me as I think I have as much right to be protected from the doubled jabbed as from anyone who isn't double jabbed.
Obviously I think there should be no restrictions whatsoever, but I just thought I'd point out the unfairness of some of the thinking at the moment.
Double-jabbed people are much, much less likely to be infected, which makes them much, much less likely to be infectious.
Plus even if they are infected, they're likely to be excreting less of the virus too.0 -
Is it possible that some of the Heavy Woollens might go for the Yorkshire Party? Having secured independence for 'England', Yorkshire next?HYUFD said:On UNS Labour should hold Batley and Spen on the latest polls and unlike Hartlepool the 2019 Tory + BXP vote was not bigger than the Labour vote.
However how many Labour voters go to Galloway and how many Heavy Woollen voters go to For Britain, UKIP and the English Democrats rather than the Tories will be key0 -
Are both of those examples not true?Theuniondivvie said:Get ‘em young.
https://twitter.com/georgemonbiot/status/1410518152849526784?s=21
‘This is what @bbcbitesize is teaching our children about climate breakdown. I'm sorry, but it's an absolute disgrace. You could come away thinking: "on balance, it sounds pretty good". It could have been written by Exxon.
(h/t: @NickShepley)
bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guide…’
‘Here is one of the "positive" aspects of the collapse of our life support systems it lists: "more resources, such as oil, becoming available in places such as Alaska and Siberia when the ice melts".
Are they actually trying to misdirect and bamboozle GCSE students’
‘And, apparently, "warmer temperatures could lead to healthier outdoor lifestyles".
FFS’
We may also be able to grow our own olive oil and more wine.
Doesn't necessarily make it a good idea on balance, but if you pretend these things won't happen, people will think you're lying about the rest as well.5 -
Ruth Davidson was favourite for next Con Leader at one point, never mind First Minister.Theuniondivvie said:
I’d say the parties that have at best managed to be a poor second in Scotland for the last 10 years embody that particular fable.Charles said:
They are like the Earl of Bruce’s spiderRazedabode said:
What happens to the SNP if it doesn’t achieve independence? Seems an alternative and interesting questionJosiasJessop said:
Or the SNP will become like the ANC in South Africa. The victors of independence not working for their people, but getting voted in continuously anyway ...StuartDickson said:
The SNP will wither away post-independence. I, and many other members, will leave and help build new, normal parties. Our goal is for Scotland to be a normal country.Foxy said:
Sleaze comes when a party is so long in power that they think that they can get away with anything and still get elected.felix said:
No sleaze in the SNP thankfully. Salmond and Sturgeon say Hi..StuartDickson said:
What never fizzles out is Tory sleaze. The events of the last week fit into a recognisable pattern going back many decades.felix said:
You may be right but the polling evidence really is not there for such a claim. The government has had a rough week or so and the press is hostile but these kind of things often flare up only to fizzle out again. All we need is a Grauniead - ' the day the polls turned' and we head back to square one.Cocky_cockney said:Mike is right. Labour are value.
It's a risky one though, unlike C&A which felt like one of those golden tips that seemed right: thank you again, Mike: your tip paid for my day at Wimbledon yesterday among many other things!
Peak Boris was May 25th. There is a discernible and definite shift now.
The one thing which might lift the Conservatives back is if England win Euro 2020 in front of a full house at Wembley. Otherwise the tide has turned.
What the Tories need is a generation of nice people. Good, honest, competent, straightforward, pleasant folk with no “side”. When one looks at the coming generation of young Tories one sees the exact opposite. Tory sleaze is going to be around for at least a half century to come.
People like @Big_G_NorthWales will vote for a donkey with a blue rosette, and in Scotland will vote SNP until independence. Only after that will Scottish politics return to competitive parties.
#Ruth4FM
#Kezia4FM
#Richard4FM
#Carlaw4FM
#Anas4FM
#Ross4FM
etc
Lay the favourite.0 -
I hope the giant man babies who hystericise about wearing masks and other such minor impediments to their indulgent lives will be able to summon up some stoicism in the face of a 10m rise in sea levels.turbotubbs said:
Not commenting on this particular story, but one of the issues I have with climate alarmism is the assumption that everything will be worse/terrible/extinction worthy. Just not true. There have been wildly different climates in the past. Raising the seas 10m will be catastrophic for cities and humans who live there. But the seas will still be there. Far greater problems are caused by our relentless use of the landscape - deforestation and natural resource depletion than by temperature changes.Theuniondivvie said:Get ‘em young.
https://twitter.com/georgemonbiot/status/1410518152849526784?s=21
‘This is what @bbcbitesize is teaching our children about climate breakdown. I'm sorry, but it's an absolute disgrace. You could come away thinking: "on balance, it sounds pretty good". It could have been written by Exxon.
(h/t: @NickShepley)
bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guide…’
‘Here is one of the "positive" aspects of the collapse of our life support systems it lists: "more resources, such as oil, becoming available in places such as Alaska and Siberia when the ice melts".
Are they actually trying to misdirect and bamboozle GCSE students’
‘And, apparently, "warmer temperatures could lead to healthier outdoor lifestyles".
FFS’
And as a friend said yesterday - the only way to really stop things would be no human babies for the next 100 years - the problem would solve itself.1 -
I've laid off my Labour bet to 0 on the other parties and green on Labour.1
-
Ruth still could be (Con Leader), though maybe not next.Alistair said:
Ruth Davidson was favourite for next Con Leader at one point, never mind First Minister.Theuniondivvie said:
I’d say the parties that have at best managed to be a poor second in Scotland for the last 10 years embody that particular fable.Charles said:
They are like the Earl of Bruce’s spiderRazedabode said:
What happens to the SNP if it doesn’t achieve independence? Seems an alternative and interesting questionJosiasJessop said:
Or the SNP will become like the ANC in South Africa. The victors of independence not working for their people, but getting voted in continuously anyway ...StuartDickson said:
The SNP will wither away post-independence. I, and many other members, will leave and help build new, normal parties. Our goal is for Scotland to be a normal country.Foxy said:
Sleaze comes when a party is so long in power that they think that they can get away with anything and still get elected.felix said:
No sleaze in the SNP thankfully. Salmond and Sturgeon say Hi..StuartDickson said:
What never fizzles out is Tory sleaze. The events of the last week fit into a recognisable pattern going back many decades.felix said:
You may be right but the polling evidence really is not there for such a claim. The government has had a rough week or so and the press is hostile but these kind of things often flare up only to fizzle out again. All we need is a Grauniead - ' the day the polls turned' and we head back to square one.Cocky_cockney said:Mike is right. Labour are value.
It's a risky one though, unlike C&A which felt like one of those golden tips that seemed right: thank you again, Mike: your tip paid for my day at Wimbledon yesterday among many other things!
Peak Boris was May 25th. There is a discernible and definite shift now.
The one thing which might lift the Conservatives back is if England win Euro 2020 in front of a full house at Wembley. Otherwise the tide has turned.
What the Tories need is a generation of nice people. Good, honest, competent, straightforward, pleasant folk with no “side”. When one looks at the coming generation of young Tories one sees the exact opposite. Tory sleaze is going to be around for at least a half century to come.
People like @Big_G_NorthWales will vote for a donkey with a blue rosette, and in Scotland will vote SNP until independence. Only after that will Scottish politics return to competitive parties.
#Ruth4FM
#Kezia4FM
#Richard4FM
#Carlaw4FM
#Anas4FM
#Ross4FM
etc
Lay the favourite.0 -
WTF!? 😂😂😂AlistairM said:Well, this might explain some things:
https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1410510512543129600
🚨 | NEW: Teenagers are using lemon juice to fake positive Covid tests and get whole classes sent home from school
Via @theipaper0 -
As a “Brexity culture warrior” my main hopes for post Brexit was and is a political culture where the bastards in power stop hiding behind the EU when they have to make decisions and europhiles deciding everything good comes from the Eu and everything bad from the U.K.Gardenwalker said:
I don’t think that’s quite what Big G meant, rather than the EU is over as a key influence on domestic policy.StuartDickson said:
Big G’s statement that “the EU is over” neatly illustrates why the Conservative Party is not fit for purpose. Even moderates like Big G have now embraced the culture war. The past is alterable. The past never has been altered. Yookania is at war with Redpassportland. Yookania has always been at war with Redpassportland.SouthamObserver said:
Investment decisions will surely be based on access to markets into which to sell, so the EU is not over. It's just that the relationship and dependency is different.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The EU are over and the UK will decide on investments and jobsStuartDickson said:
All governments recently signed a “level playing field” treaty, but one of the signatories was crossing their fingers behind their back. Guess which one.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am sorry but investing in the future green economy is essential and is actively promoted by all governmentsOldKingCole said:
The BBC also says thatBig_G_NorthWales said:
I hadn't thought about that but if so good politicsbeentheredonethat said:
Absolutely coincidental that this announced on by Election DayBig_G_NorthWales said:Breaking
Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland
'The government is contributing to the cost of the expansion, but a precise figure has not been disclosed.'
Ion other words, a massive handout. Some might call it a bribe.
But your general point is correct.
Nevertheless, the Brexity culture warriors know their cause is both potent and fragile; hence the government’s bung to the totemic Nissan.2 -
Do we know how big the bung is? And is it in contract they can’t take bung today and downsize in favour of EU plants with most of the wad in the back pocket in two years or more?Gardenwalker said:
I don’t think that’s quite what Big G meant, rather than the EU is over as a key influence on domestic policy.StuartDickson said:
Big G’s statement that “the EU is over” neatly illustrates why the Conservative Party is not fit for purpose. Even moderates like Big G have now embraced the culture war. The past is alterable. The past never has been altered. Yookania is at war with Redpassportland. Yookania has always been at war with Redpassportland.SouthamObserver said:
Investment decisions will surely be based on access to markets into which to sell, so the EU is not over. It's just that the relationship and dependency is different.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The EU are over and the UK will decide on investments and jobsStuartDickson said:
All governments recently signed a “level playing field” treaty, but one of the signatories was crossing their fingers behind their back. Guess which one.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am sorry but investing in the future green economy is essential and is actively promoted by all governmentsOldKingCole said:
The BBC also says thatBig_G_NorthWales said:
I hadn't thought about that but if so good politicsbeentheredonethat said:
Absolutely coincidental that this announced on by Election DayBig_G_NorthWales said:Breaking
Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland
'The government is contributing to the cost of the expansion, but a precise figure has not been disclosed.'
Ion other words, a massive handout. Some might call it a bribe.
But your general point is correct.
Nevertheless, the Brexity culture warriors know their cause is both potent and fragile; hence the government’s bung to the totemic Nissan.0 -
Telling the truth is appropriate. To pretend that there's only negatives means you're not taken seriously.JohnLilburne said:
Are both of those examples not true?Theuniondivvie said:Get ‘em young.
https://twitter.com/georgemonbiot/status/1410518152849526784?s=21
‘This is what @bbcbitesize is teaching our children about climate breakdown. I'm sorry, but it's an absolute disgrace. You could come away thinking: "on balance, it sounds pretty good". It could have been written by Exxon.
(h/t: @NickShepley)
bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guide…’
‘Here is one of the "positive" aspects of the collapse of our life support systems it lists: "more resources, such as oil, becoming available in places such as Alaska and Siberia when the ice melts".
Are they actually trying to misdirect and bamboozle GCSE students’
‘And, apparently, "warmer temperatures could lead to healthier outdoor lifestyles".
FFS’
We may also be able to grow our own olive oil and more wine.
Doesn't necessarily make it a good idea on balance, but if you pretend these things won't happen, people will think you're lying about the rest as well.1 -
Naive.Morris_Dancer said:Got to say I find it fascinating that some are wibbling about the culture war, such as it is, being a rightwing thing.
The only rightwing thing (and it's leftwing too because plenty on the left are highly dubious of the imported tosh) is a reaction to people who thing iconoclasm is cool, kneeling to race-baiters is a good idea, and men should be able to compete in women's sports.
Yes, there are left wing nutters, especially on Twitter. The real world impact is slight to none.
The government is clearly seeking to exaggerate such things in order to paint Labour as the party of the hopelessly woke.0 -
Baroness Davidson will never be the leader of the Conservative partyGardenwalker said:
Ruth still could be (Con Leader), though maybe not next.Alistair said:
Ruth Davidson was favourite for next Con Leader at one point, never mind First Minister.Theuniondivvie said:
I’d say the parties that have at best managed to be a poor second in Scotland for the last 10 years embody that particular fable.Charles said:
They are like the Earl of Bruce’s spiderRazedabode said:
What happens to the SNP if it doesn’t achieve independence? Seems an alternative and interesting questionJosiasJessop said:
Or the SNP will become like the ANC in South Africa. The victors of independence not working for their people, but getting voted in continuously anyway ...StuartDickson said:
The SNP will wither away post-independence. I, and many other members, will leave and help build new, normal parties. Our goal is for Scotland to be a normal country.Foxy said:
Sleaze comes when a party is so long in power that they think that they can get away with anything and still get elected.felix said:
No sleaze in the SNP thankfully. Salmond and Sturgeon say Hi..StuartDickson said:
What never fizzles out is Tory sleaze. The events of the last week fit into a recognisable pattern going back many decades.felix said:
You may be right but the polling evidence really is not there for such a claim. The government has had a rough week or so and the press is hostile but these kind of things often flare up only to fizzle out again. All we need is a Grauniead - ' the day the polls turned' and we head back to square one.Cocky_cockney said:Mike is right. Labour are value.
It's a risky one though, unlike C&A which felt like one of those golden tips that seemed right: thank you again, Mike: your tip paid for my day at Wimbledon yesterday among many other things!
Peak Boris was May 25th. There is a discernible and definite shift now.
The one thing which might lift the Conservatives back is if England win Euro 2020 in front of a full house at Wembley. Otherwise the tide has turned.
What the Tories need is a generation of nice people. Good, honest, competent, straightforward, pleasant folk with no “side”. When one looks at the coming generation of young Tories one sees the exact opposite. Tory sleaze is going to be around for at least a half century to come.
People like @Big_G_NorthWales will vote for a donkey with a blue rosette, and in Scotland will vote SNP until independence. Only after that will Scottish politics return to competitive parties.
#Ruth4FM
#Kezia4FM
#Richard4FM
#Carlaw4FM
#Anas4FM
#Ross4FM
etc
Lay the favourite.
BDWNBTLOTCP.1 -
Wasn't the "bung" and its transmission to Nissan handled by Matt Hancock?gealbhan said:
Do we know how big the bung is? And is it in contract they can’t take bung today and downsize in favour of EU plants with most of the wad in the back pocket in two years or more?Gardenwalker said:
I don’t think that’s quite what Big G meant, rather than the EU is over as a key influence on domestic policy.StuartDickson said:
Big G’s statement that “the EU is over” neatly illustrates why the Conservative Party is not fit for purpose. Even moderates like Big G have now embraced the culture war. The past is alterable. The past never has been altered. Yookania is at war with Redpassportland. Yookania has always been at war with Redpassportland.SouthamObserver said:
Investment decisions will surely be based on access to markets into which to sell, so the EU is not over. It's just that the relationship and dependency is different.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The EU are over and the UK will decide on investments and jobsStuartDickson said:
All governments recently signed a “level playing field” treaty, but one of the signatories was crossing their fingers behind their back. Guess which one.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am sorry but investing in the future green economy is essential and is actively promoted by all governmentsOldKingCole said:
The BBC also says thatBig_G_NorthWales said:
I hadn't thought about that but if so good politicsbeentheredonethat said:
Absolutely coincidental that this announced on by Election DayBig_G_NorthWales said:Breaking
Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland
'The government is contributing to the cost of the expansion, but a precise figure has not been disclosed.'
Ion other words, a massive handout. Some might call it a bribe.
But your general point is correct.
Nevertheless, the Brexity culture warriors know their cause is both potent and fragile; hence the government’s bung to the totemic Nissan.0 -
I don’t know why you are laughing, your own kids are smarter than you. They are one step ahead of grown ups. 😂Philip_Thompson said:
WTF!? 😂😂😂AlistairM said:Well, this might explain some things:
https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1410510512543129600
🚨 | NEW: Teenagers are using lemon juice to fake positive Covid tests and get whole classes sent home from school
Via @theipaper0 -
(((Dan Hodges)))
@DPJHodges
·
2h
Except it’s not actually an answer to question. Will you serve a full second term as Mayor.
Andy Burnham
@AndyBurnhamGM
Replying to
@DPJHodges
and
@JenWilliamsMEN
Yes Dan.0 -
My kids are 5 and 7. Their extent of attempting to be one step ahead right now is fake coughing - then being told to knock it off. 😝gealbhan said:
I don’t know why you are laughing, your own kids are smarter than you. They are one step ahead of grown ups. 😂Philip_Thompson said:
WTF!? 😂😂😂AlistairM said:Well, this might explain some things:
https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1410510512543129600
🚨 | NEW: Teenagers are using lemon juice to fake positive Covid tests and get whole classes sent home from school
Via @theipaper1 -
EVs ought to be good for more like 250k miles, as long as they're built well enough.Foxy said:
7 year/100 000 miles with Kia. I am very pleased with my environment over the last year, and a genuine 270 mile range in warm weather, 230 or so on frosty dark winter days with heating and lights on and cold batteries.RochdalePioneers said:
Back Korea. Their drivetrain is amazingly efficient, they are absolutely smashing it in design, build quality is right up there, and a 5 year unlimited mileage warranty.Dura_Ace said:
The Leaf is junk but the EV conversion scene seems to be moving toward butchering Tesla 3s and using the FreedomEV firmware on it.RochdalePioneers said:
Nissan and EVs at the moment are the brand whose batteries and motors get harvested for classic cars to be converted. They aren't a brand even on the radar for most new converts to electric as their technology is over a decade old.
VAG seem to have the best strategy (if not the best products) for the EV revolution and the Japanese OEMs look slightly lost by tinkering with multiple technologies and not committing to one.
The build quality is very good indeed, well ahead of anything that I have had before.0 -
Though to be fair, it makes sense on its own merits.Gardenwalker said:
I don’t think that’s quite what Big G meant, rather than the EU is over as a key influence on domestic policy.StuartDickson said:
Big G’s statement that “the EU is over” neatly illustrates why the Conservative Party is not fit for purpose. Even moderates like Big G have now embraced the culture war. The past is alterable. The past never has been altered. Yookania is at war with Redpassportland. Yookania has always been at war with Redpassportland.SouthamObserver said:
Investment decisions will surely be based on access to markets into which to sell, so the EU is not over. It's just that the relationship and dependency is different.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The EU are over and the UK will decide on investments and jobsStuartDickson said:
All governments recently signed a “level playing field” treaty, but one of the signatories was crossing their fingers behind their back. Guess which one.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am sorry but investing in the future green economy is essential and is actively promoted by all governmentsOldKingCole said:
The BBC also says thatBig_G_NorthWales said:
I hadn't thought about that but if so good politicsbeentheredonethat said:
Absolutely coincidental that this announced on by Election DayBig_G_NorthWales said:Breaking
Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland
'The government is contributing to the cost of the expansion, but a precise figure has not been disclosed.'
Ion other words, a massive handout. Some might call it a bribe.
But your general point is correct.
Nevertheless, the Brexity culture warriors know their cause is both potent and fragile; hence the government’s bung to the totemic Nissan.0 -
If they're not representative then why doesn't Labour disown these people?Gardenwalker said:
Naive.Morris_Dancer said:Got to say I find it fascinating that some are wibbling about the culture war, such as it is, being a rightwing thing.
The only rightwing thing (and it's leftwing too because plenty on the left are highly dubious of the imported tosh) is a reaction to people who thing iconoclasm is cool, kneeling to race-baiters is a good idea, and men should be able to compete in women's sports.
Yes, there are left wing nutters, especially on Twitter. The real world impact is slight to none.
The government is clearly seeking to exaggerate such things in order to paint Labour as the party of the hopelessly woke.
Oh wait, many of their own MPs are going along with this, let alone their voters. So no the government isn't exaggerating it.1 -
Burnham is aiming to do a Boris ie Boris stood for Parliament again at the 2015 general election 3 years into his second term as Mayor, so on that basis Burnham would stand for Parliament again in 2023/24.rottenborough said:(((Dan Hodges)))
@DPJHodges
·
2h
Except it’s not actually an answer to question. Will you serve a full second term as Mayor.
Andy Burnham
@AndyBurnhamGM
Replying to
@DPJHodges
and
@JenWilliamsMEN
Yes Dan.
Of course had Cameron lost in 2015 Boris would then have been a big contender to succeed him rather than having to wait 4 years for the Tory leadership, as Burnham would then be a big contender in 2023/24 for the Labour leadership if Starmer lost0 -
I think this is correct, Hancock is barely relevant. The by-election is all about Gorgeous.RochdalePioneers said:
I would expect so - certainly Labour and the LibDems always push for postal votes. Covid has only amplified the drive for people to vote remotely. Honestly can't see the non-sacking of Mancock making much of an impact.MrEd said:On topic - any views on whether this by-election will see a lot of postal votes or not? If a lot, limited effect from Hancock et al. If not much, Mike might be onto something.
Because you're Gorgeous
I'd do anything for you.
Labour would have held B&S without Gorgeous. They still will do if Gorgeous only takes a miserly portion of the Islamic vote. If Gorgeous has got 5k votes, Labour have lost.
(I suspect no-one on pb.com has any real idea of how Gorgeous is actually doing in the communities of East Batley).1 -
Wibbles Morris Dancer....Morris_Dancer said:Got to say I find it fascinating that some are wibbling about the culture war, such as it is, being a rightwing thing.
The only rightwing thing (and it's leftwing too because plenty on the left are highly dubious of the imported tosh) is a reaction to people who thing iconoclasm is cool, kneeling to race-baiters is a good idea, and men should be able to compete in women's sports. 0 -
Possible certainlyNorthern_Al said:
Is it possible that some of the Heavy Woollens might go for the Yorkshire Party? Having secured independence for 'England', Yorkshire next?HYUFD said:On UNS Labour should hold Batley and Spen on the latest polls and unlike Hartlepool the 2019 Tory + BXP vote was not bigger than the Labour vote.
However how many Labour voters go to Galloway and how many Heavy Woollen voters go to For Britain, UKIP and the English Democrats rather than the Tories will be key0 -
That’s opposite to how the press spun it last night. Are you sure this isn’t ITV spin?CarlottaVance said:Chancellor confirms that UK has given up trying to secure greater access to EU markets for financial services firms.
City of London has been largely cut off since Brexit completed at end of last year.
Sunak says deal on equivalence “has not happened”.
https://twitter.com/ITVJoel/status/1410518270319468545?s=200 -
Teachers are blaming parents as usual.AlistairM said:Well, this might explain some things:
https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1410510512543129600
🚨 | NEW: Teenagers are using lemon juice to fake positive Covid tests and get whole classes sent home from school
Via @theipaper
0 -
Mr. Walker, we have the likes of Dick actively seeking to discriminate against white people in employment practices.
And, as I wrote yesterday, better to crush an egg than fight a dragon.2 -
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jul/01/not-enough-evidence-to-back-covid-jabs-for-children-says-uk-expert
Another SAGE member "speaking in a personal capacity"....0 -
I interviewed both Robert McNamara and Donald Rumsfeld.
McNamara visibly bore the weight of his catastrophic role in Vietnam. (If you’re in doubt, watch ‘The Fog of War.')
Rumsfeld shrugged off his catastrophic role in Iraq.
'De mortuis' and so on.
https://twitter.com/JamesFallows/status/1410423296504614916
Both now in the great unknown unknown, though.1 -
Its the irregular verb thing again....Morris_Dancer said:Got to say I find it fascinating that some are wibbling about the culture war, such as it is, being a rightwing thing.
The only rightwing thing (and it's leftwing too because plenty on the left are highly dubious of the imported tosh) is a reaction to people who thing iconoclasm is cool, kneeling to race-baiters is a good idea, and men should be able to compete in women's sports.
I state The Truth
You are wrong
He is a culture warrior
2 -
As if the typical parent wants their children stuck at home with everyone in isolation...Gnud said:
Teachers are blaming parents as usual.AlistairM said:Well, this might explain some things:
https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1410510512543129600
🚨 | NEW: Teenagers are using lemon juice to fake positive Covid tests and get whole classes sent home from school
Via @theipaper0 -
I think house moves have gone from 1 every 7 to one every 15 years (ish) for owners.Cookie said:
My memory of growing up in the 80s was that people moved quite frequently for work. It doesn't seem to happen any more - not least because families are typically reliant on two earners, so the ability of earner 1 to get a new job 100 miles away is greatly inhibited by earner 2's need to remain accessible to that individual's own job.MattW said:
Excellent.JosiasJessop said:
That's actually what we used to do: Mrs J didn't drive, and we'd just move to near she was working. Hence we moved frequently around the country. She learnt to drive, as she felt it was unfair for me to be taxiing her everywhere.MattW said:
Going purist for a mo, can you move somewhere different and just not have a car?JosiasJessop said:
Personally, I don't give a flying f*** about 'cachet' in a car. I just want something that will perform the job I want it to do with minimal fuss and cost. Heck, I even drive an automatic ...Dura_Ace said:Since they killed the R35 I think it's fair to say that Nissan no longer make a single car that has any merit or cachet whatsoever. It's a long way down for the company that gave us the Z, the GTR and the S chassis.
I don't particularly like driving; it is a thing that lets me do what I want to do. When I buy a new car, trifling little matters like safety matter more than 0-60.
It's surprising how many of my friends feel the same way (Caterham-7 builders notwithstanding). The car isn't particularly a status symbol; it's a tool.
Very possible ... plenty of people are unable to drive for medical reasons.
But then we bought a house within walking distance of her workplace and had a kid. That company was taken over by a larger one, and she had to commute into Cambridge. Then she moved to another company down in Harlow.
If we'd had to move, we'd have had to move three times - and we like where we live, and the little 'un is settled in school. Besides, we'd have to live in (shudders) Harlow ...
A Cambourne to Harlow trip by public transport is *interesting*.
.
That's actually a big point on how fast to build out housing estates.
The vast majority are locals within distance of work.
My version of that is that people don't want 2 big stress events - house move and job move - close together. Plus the qualification period for a mortgage.
1 -
0
-
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jul/01/security-provider-for-matt-hancocks-office-worked-at-porton-down
I am less concerned that an America contractor gets paid for the work, more do they use Chinese CCTV cameras on all their installations?0 -
Is this Dingwall again ?FrancisUrquhart said:https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jul/01/not-enough-evidence-to-back-covid-jabs-for-children-says-uk-expert
Another SAGE member "speaking in a personal capacity"....
I think some on the JCVI would rather have 10 kids die from Covid than a single Leah Betts type death emerging from vaccination.kle4 said:
If you're on such a body it does seem you should be very wary of making your own separate pronouncements. Thats part of the price of being on it.FrancisUrquhart said:https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jul/01/not-enough-evidence-to-back-covid-jabs-for-children-says-uk-expert
Another SAGE member "speaking in a personal capacity"....0 -
If you're on such a body it does seem you should be very wary of making your own separate pronouncements. Thats part of the price of being on it.FrancisUrquhart said:https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jul/01/not-enough-evidence-to-back-covid-jabs-for-children-says-uk-expert
Another SAGE member "speaking in a personal capacity"....1 -
Pirate Libertarians guide to parenting.Philip_Thompson said:
My kids are 5 and 7. Their extent of attempting to be one step ahead right now is fake coughing - then being told to knock it off. 😝gealbhan said:
I don’t know why you are laughing, your own kids are smarter than you. They are one step ahead of grown ups. 😂Philip_Thompson said:
WTF!? 😂😂😂AlistairM said:Well, this might explain some things:
https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1410510512543129600
🚨 | NEW: Teenagers are using lemon juice to fake positive Covid tests and get whole classes sent home from school
Via @theipaper2 -
No Prof Calum Semple.Pulpstar said:
Is this Dingwall again ?FrancisUrquhart said:https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jul/01/not-enough-evidence-to-back-covid-jabs-for-children-says-uk-expert
Another SAGE member "speaking in a personal capacity"....
I am really sick of these academics agreeing to be on these committees and clearly if decisions look like they aren't going in the direction they agree with they are straight to the media to ditch any collective responsibility to claim its all wrong.1 -
Radek Sikorski pays tribute.Nigelb said:I interviewed both Robert McNamara and Donald Rumsfeld.
McNamara visibly bore the weight of his catastrophic role in Vietnam. (If you’re in doubt, watch ‘The Fog of War.')
Rumsfeld shrugged off his catastrophic role in Iraq.
'De mortuis' and so on.
https://twitter.com/JamesFallows/status/1410423296504614916
Both now in the great unknown unknown, though.
https://twitter.com/radeksikorski/status/1410471133212782600
I worked with Donald Rumsfeld as Poland's minister of defence during the Iraq war 2005-2007 and I agree with this assessment. The man was a spiteful prig who landed the U.S. and its allies into a sea of unnecessary trouble.1 -
Not very funny....as per usual.Scott_xP said:1 -
These days it would probably take quite a heroic effort to find a CCTV camera that wasn't actually manufactured in China.FrancisUrquhart said:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jul/01/security-provider-for-matt-hancocks-office-worked-at-porton-down
I am less concerned that an America contractor gets paid for the work, more do they use Chinese CCTV cameras on all their installations?0 -
And the irony is that, unless the EU collapses (which it probably won't), it's still going to be there, and the UK is still going to have to work out, case by case, how it wants to engage. The TCA has a five-yearly review, the NI protocol comes up for debate every four years. Even from here, the question "how do we want to trade divergence from EU rules for ease of access" is still going to be there. Every single time.Gardenwalker said:
I don’t think that’s quite what Big G meant, rather than the EU is over as a key influence on domestic policy.StuartDickson said:
Big G’s statement that “the EU is over” neatly illustrates why the Conservative Party is not fit for purpose. Even moderates like Big G have now embraced the culture war. The past is alterable. The past never has been altered. Yookania is at war with Redpassportland. Yookania has always been at war with Redpassportland.SouthamObserver said:
Investment decisions will surely be based on access to markets into which to sell, so the EU is not over. It's just that the relationship and dependency is different.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The EU are over and the UK will decide on investments and jobsStuartDickson said:
All governments recently signed a “level playing field” treaty, but one of the signatories was crossing their fingers behind their back. Guess which one.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am sorry but investing in the future green economy is essential and is actively promoted by all governmentsOldKingCole said:
The BBC also says thatBig_G_NorthWales said:
I hadn't thought about that but if so good politicsbeentheredonethat said:
Absolutely coincidental that this announced on by Election DayBig_G_NorthWales said:Breaking
Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland
'The government is contributing to the cost of the expansion, but a precise figure has not been disclosed.'
Ion other words, a massive handout. Some might call it a bribe.
But your general point is correct.
Nevertheless, the Brexity culture warriors know their cause is both potent and fragile; hence the government’s bung to the totemic Nissan.
Whatever this is, it ain't a Done Brexit.0 -
There are plenty of nutters in the Tory Party, too, some at the highest level. Both parties have become less representative of the general population.Philip_Thompson said:
If they're not representative then why doesn't Labour disown these people?Gardenwalker said:
Naive.Morris_Dancer said:Got to say I find it fascinating that some are wibbling about the culture war, such as it is, being a rightwing thing.
The only rightwing thing (and it's leftwing too because plenty on the left are highly dubious of the imported tosh) is a reaction to people who thing iconoclasm is cool, kneeling to race-baiters is a good idea, and men should be able to compete in women's sports.
Yes, there are left wing nutters, especially on Twitter. The real world impact is slight to none.
The government is clearly seeking to exaggerate such things in order to paint Labour as the party of the hopelessly woke.
Oh wait, many of their own MPs are going along with this, let alone their voters. So no the government isn't exaggerating it.
However the kulturkampf is woke v anti-woke, and the government is exploiting that opportunity (and thereby continuing to perpetuate internal divisions in order to seek electoral benefit).0 -
Worth a note that the 670 bn Euro "Recovery Fund" from the EuCo includes a huge amount for "Green Transition".Nigelb said:
Though to be fair, it makes sense on its own merits.Gardenwalker said:
I don’t think that’s quite what Big G meant, rather than the EU is over as a key influence on domestic policy.StuartDickson said:
Big G’s statement that “the EU is over” neatly illustrates why the Conservative Party is not fit for purpose. Even moderates like Big G have now embraced the culture war. The past is alterable. The past never has been altered. Yookania is at war with Redpassportland. Yookania has always been at war with Redpassportland.SouthamObserver said:
Investment decisions will surely be based on access to markets into which to sell, so the EU is not over. It's just that the relationship and dependency is different.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The EU are over and the UK will decide on investments and jobsStuartDickson said:
All governments recently signed a “level playing field” treaty, but one of the signatories was crossing their fingers behind their back. Guess which one.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am sorry but investing in the future green economy is essential and is actively promoted by all governmentsOldKingCole said:
The BBC also says thatBig_G_NorthWales said:
I hadn't thought about that but if so good politicsbeentheredonethat said:
Absolutely coincidental that this announced on by Election DayBig_G_NorthWales said:Breaking
Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland
'The government is contributing to the cost of the expansion, but a precise figure has not been disclosed.'
Ion other words, a massive handout. Some might call it a bribe.
But your general point is correct.
Nevertheless, the Brexity culture warriors know their cause is both potent and fragile; hence the government’s bung to the totemic Nissan.
I wonder where that will be going?1 -
I state MY Truth....you can't argue against that, as its my lived experience.....Malmesbury said:
Its the irregular verb thing again....Morris_Dancer said:Got to say I find it fascinating that some are wibbling about the culture war, such as it is, being a rightwing thing.
The only rightwing thing (and it's leftwing too because plenty on the left are highly dubious of the imported tosh) is a reaction to people who thing iconoclasm is cool, kneeling to race-baiters is a good idea, and men should be able to compete in women's sports.
I state The Truth
You are wrong
He is a culture warrior
Yeah but.you are factually wrong...you right wing bigot, you sexist, racist, homophobe....3 -
Drakeford himself is unassuming, but the grip Welsh Labour has on public life in Wales is way more arrogant & sleazy than anything in Westminster.StuartDickson said:
!Foxy said:
Yes, I think that until there is independence the SNP with all its many faults and infighting will dominate Scotland. Afterwards it can safely be dissolved, into rival parties, and more functional politics.StuartDickson said:
The SNP will wither away post-independence. I, and many other members, will leave and help build new, normal parties. Our goal is for Scotland to be a normal country.Foxy said:
Sleaze comes when a party is so long in power that they think that they can get away with anything and still get elected.felix said:
No sleaze in the SNP thankfully. Salmond and Sturgeon say Hi..StuartDickson said:
What never fizzles out is Tory sleaze. The events of the last week fit into a recognisable pattern going back many decades.felix said:
You may be right but the polling evidence really is not there for such a claim. The government has had a rough week or so and the press is hostile but these kind of things often flare up only to fizzle out again. All we need is a Grauniead - ' the day the polls turned' and we head back to square one.Cocky_cockney said:Mike is right. Labour are value.
It's a risky one though, unlike C&A which felt like one of those golden tips that seemed right: thank you again, Mike: your tip paid for my day at Wimbledon yesterday among many other things!
Peak Boris was May 25th. There is a discernible and definite shift now.
The one thing which might lift the Conservatives back is if England win Euro 2020 in front of a full house at Wembley. Otherwise the tide has turned.
What the Tories need is a generation of nice people. Good, honest, competent, straightforward, pleasant folk with no “side”. When one looks at the coming generation of young Tories one sees the exact opposite. Tory sleaze is going to be around for at least a half century to come.
People like @Big_G_NorthWales will vote for a donkey with a blue rosette, and in Scotland will vote SNP until independence. Only after that will Scottish politics return to competitive parties.
One party states are not good, whether SNP in Holyrood, Labour in Cardiff, DUP in Stormont or Tory in Westminster. They all generate sleaze when hegemonic.
And Drakeford’s Welsh Labour does not seem to be as entitled, arrogant and sleazy as Scottish Labour once was when it had hegemony.
Llafur have run Wales as a one-party state since 1999, to no apparent benefit to anyone apart from themselves. They have prospered while the Welsh are fed on scraps.
If Llafur is not as "as entitled, arrogant and sleazy as Scottish Labour once was", then SLAB must have been really something special in terms of semi-criminal organisations.
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Quite so. It's not an even balance at all and appropriate to say that, but even the end of the world isnt the end of the world for everything.Philip_Thompson said:
Telling the truth is appropriate. To pretend that there's only negatives means you're not taken seriously.JohnLilburne said:
Are both of those examples not true?Theuniondivvie said:Get ‘em young.
https://twitter.com/georgemonbiot/status/1410518152849526784?s=21
‘This is what @bbcbitesize is teaching our children about climate breakdown. I'm sorry, but it's an absolute disgrace. You could come away thinking: "on balance, it sounds pretty good". It could have been written by Exxon.
(h/t: @NickShepley)
bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guide…’
‘Here is one of the "positive" aspects of the collapse of our life support systems it lists: "more resources, such as oil, becoming available in places such as Alaska and Siberia when the ice melts".
Are they actually trying to misdirect and bamboozle GCSE students’
‘And, apparently, "warmer temperatures could lead to healthier outdoor lifestyles".
FFS’
We may also be able to grow our own olive oil and more wine.
Doesn't necessarily make it a good idea on balance, but if you pretend these things won't happen, people will think you're lying about the rest as well.
I dont think people will be unduly swayed to relax concerns from knowing farming may be easier in Siberia.0 -
There is a strange thread about online radio stations appeared!0
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Or...as all english dictionaries might say - 'my opinion'!FrancisUrquhart said:
I state MY Truth....you can't argue against that, as its my lived experience.....Malmesbury said:
Its the irregular verb thing again....Morris_Dancer said:Got to say I find it fascinating that some are wibbling about the culture war, such as it is, being a rightwing thing.
The only rightwing thing (and it's leftwing too because plenty on the left are highly dubious of the imported tosh) is a reaction to people who thing iconoclasm is cool, kneeling to race-baiters is a good idea, and men should be able to compete in women's sports.
I state The Truth
You are wrong
He is a culture warrior
Yeah but.you are factually wrong...you right wing bigot, you sexist, racist, homophobe....2 -
But the particular brand used in Hancock's office is from a company banned by the US because of concerns about their operations.Malmesbury said:
These days it would probably take quite a heroic effort to find a CCTV camera that wasn't actually manufactured in China.FrancisUrquhart said:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jul/01/security-provider-for-matt-hancocks-office-worked-at-porton-down
I am less concerned that an America contractor gets paid for the work, more do they use Chinese CCTV cameras on all their installations?
I think its a legitimate question to be asking about, less interested in a US contractor getting government work.1 -
Pure anecdotal stuff / guessing on my part but the impression I get - having had a number of conversations over drinks on Hancock - is that the fact that both parties left their partners and moved in together is taking away a lot of the "he's a hypocrite / sleazeball" factor.RochdalePioneers said:
I would expect so - certainly Labour and the LibDems always push for postal votes. Covid has only amplified the drive for people to vote remotely. Honestly can't see the non-sacking of Mancock making much of an impact.MrEd said:On topic - any views on whether this by-election will see a lot of postal votes or not? If a lot, limited effect from Hancock et al. If not much, Mike might be onto something.
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It hurts those who idolise the EU, but this country is moving further away each and every day and any idea the EU would interfere with domestic UK investments just adds to the anti EU narrativeStuartDickson said:
Big G’s statement that “the EU is over” neatly illustrates why the Conservative Party is not fit for purpose. Even moderates like Big G have now embraced the culture war. The past is alterable. The past never has been altered. Yookania is at war with Redpassportland. Yookania has always been at war with Redpassportland.SouthamObserver said:
Investment decisions will surely be based on access to markets into which to sell, so the EU is not over. It's just that the relationship and dependency is different.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The EU are over and the UK will decide on investments and jobsStuartDickson said:
All governments recently signed a “level playing field” treaty, but one of the signatories was crossing their fingers behind their back. Guess which one.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am sorry but investing in the future green economy is essential and is actively promoted by all governmentsOldKingCole said:
The BBC also says thatBig_G_NorthWales said:
I hadn't thought about that but if so good politicsbeentheredonethat said:
Absolutely coincidental that this announced on by Election DayBig_G_NorthWales said:Breaking
Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland
'The government is contributing to the cost of the expansion, but a precise figure has not been disclosed.'
Ion other words, a massive handout. Some might call it a bribe.1 -
The myocarditis risk is well known by now. Just needs to be a recommendation to avoid strenuous exercise for perhaps 3 days after vaccination.FrancisUrquhart said:
No Prof Calum Semple.Pulpstar said:
Is this Dingwall again ?FrancisUrquhart said:https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jul/01/not-enough-evidence-to-back-covid-jabs-for-children-says-uk-expert
Another SAGE member "speaking in a personal capacity"....
I am really sick of these academics agreeing to be on these committees and clearly if decisions look like they aren't going in the direction they agree with they are straight to the media to ditch any collective responsibility to claim its all wrong.0
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