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Are we missing the obvious in Batley & Spen – Hancock and a narrowing of the poll gap? – politicalbe

SystemSystem Posts: 12,127
edited July 2021 in General
imageAre we missing the obvious in Batley & Spen – Hancock and a narrowing of the poll gap? – politicalbetting.com

In all the analysis of today’s Batley and Spen by-election there has hardly been any mention of the national political picture and a clear narrowing of the Tory poll lead particularly since that Sun front page with the picture of then HealthSec Hancock with an aide.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,463
    First..like Labour with a favourable wind and good luck.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,575
    It is possible. However, against that there might be a feel-good factor relating to England's Euro 2020 performance and possibly the mood music around lifting Covid restrictions.

    As detailed at the end of the last thread, I think Labour will win. I'm on at lesser odds than are now available but I probably won't be pressing up, though nor will I be cashing out.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,147
    I have always expected a Labour win - as I did in Hartlepool! I think the poll changes can be exaggerated as there has been little change medium term. I wonder also about the postal vote numbers already in. Overall I expect a narrow Labour hold but I cannot see it as especially significant in the greater scheme of things, except I'm not sure Labour would learn the right lessons from it. As for the Tories it may put pressure on Johnson but I feel here there are plenty of alternatives should a change be deemed necessary.
  • Mike is right. Labour are value.

    It's a risky one though, unlike C&A which felt like one of those golden tips that seemed right: thank you again, Mike: your tip paid for my day at Wimbledon yesterday among many other things!

    Peak Boris was May 25th. There is a discernible and definite shift now.

    The one thing which might lift the Conservatives back is if England win Euro 2020 in front of a full house at Wembley. Otherwise the tide has turned.
  • p.s. we haven't really played a good side yet. It's true that we may not have to until the final but then Belgium or Italy might await.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,147

    Mike is right. Labour are value.

    It's a risky one though, unlike C&A which felt like one of those golden tips that seemed right: thank you again, Mike: your tip paid for my day at Wimbledon yesterday among many other things!

    Peak Boris was May 25th. There is a discernible and definite shift now.

    The one thing which might lift the Conservatives back is if England win Euro 2020 in front of a full house at Wembley. Otherwise the tide has turned.

    You may be right but the polling evidence really is not there for such a claim. The government has had a rough week or so and the press is hostile but these kind of things often flare up only to fizzle out again. All we need is a Grauniead - ' the day the polls turned' and we head back to square one.
  • felix said:

    Mike is right. Labour are value.

    It's a risky one though, unlike C&A which felt like one of those golden tips that seemed right: thank you again, Mike: your tip paid for my day at Wimbledon yesterday among many other things!

    Peak Boris was May 25th. There is a discernible and definite shift now.

    The one thing which might lift the Conservatives back is if England win Euro 2020 in front of a full house at Wembley. Otherwise the tide has turned.

    You may be right but the polling evidence really is not there for such a claim. The government has had a rough week or so and the press is hostile but these kind of things often flare up only to fizzle out again. All we need is a Grauniead - ' the day the polls turned' and we head back to square one.
    The evidence is there and it's you that is speculating that it will fizzle out.
  • I have expected Labour to win all through this. If they don’t, then they have a problem on two fronts. They will be oozing support from both the WWC and the Muslim community. I think this is the only scenario in which Labour loses and it should be frightening for them. Personally I don’t think they will lose but I do expect a very low turnout. There is too much noise going on in the country for it to enthrall the electorate.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,147

    felix said:

    Mike is right. Labour are value.

    It's a risky one though, unlike C&A which felt like one of those golden tips that seemed right: thank you again, Mike: your tip paid for my day at Wimbledon yesterday among many other things!

    Peak Boris was May 25th. There is a discernible and definite shift now.

    The one thing which might lift the Conservatives back is if England win Euro 2020 in front of a full house at Wembley. Otherwise the tide has turned.

    You may be right but the polling evidence really is not there for such a claim. The government has had a rough week or so and the press is hostile but these kind of things often flare up only to fizzle out again. All we need is a Grauniead - ' the day the polls turned' and we head back to square one.
    The evidence is there and it's you that is speculating that it will fizzle out.
    You've referred to 2 polls. RW over the past month has seen 2 moves to Labour and 2 back to the Tories. CR has seen a move to Labour from what was an unusually high Tory lead. The current poll average of all has barely changed over the past year. This site is about speculating what things mean. As I said I expect a Labour hold.
  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760
    edited July 2021
    felix said:

    felix said:

    Mike is right. Labour are value.

    It's a risky one though, unlike C&A which felt like one of those golden tips that seemed right: thank you again, Mike: your tip paid for my day at Wimbledon yesterday among many other things!

    Peak Boris was May 25th. There is a discernible and definite shift now.

    The one thing which might lift the Conservatives back is if England win Euro 2020 in front of a full house at Wembley. Otherwise the tide has turned.

    You may be right but the polling evidence really is not there for such a claim. The government has had a rough week or so and the press is hostile but these kind of things often flare up only to fizzle out again. All we need is a Grauniead - ' the day the polls turned' and we head back to square one.
    The evidence is there and it's you that is speculating that it will fizzle out.
    You've referred to 2 polls.
    No.

    Mike referred to three opinions polls AND three of his all-important leader ratings. All six measurements show Johnson is sliding from peak.

    You may not like it. You may think it will fizzle out. But don't try and claim it isn't evidential.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344

    p.s. we haven't really played a good side yet. It's true that we may not have to until the final but then Belgium or Italy might await.

    Mornin' all!

    Denmark seem to have 'fire on the belly'; don't think they should be written off. One wonders too, how much longer Murray can keep going.

    Weatherwise it appears to be a better morning; July has brought some summer sun.
  • p.s. we haven't really played a good side yet. It's true that we may not have to until the final but then Belgium or Italy might await.

    Mornin' all!

    Denmark seem to have 'fire on the belly'; don't think they should be written off. One wonders too, how much longer Murray can keep going.

    Weatherwise it appears to be a better morning; July has brought some summer sun.
    It’s all right for some. Our weather forecast is rain for the next week including thunderstorms over the weekend.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,593
    Postal voting will largely have happened by now and will have been used mostly by those voting for Galloway and the Tories. That said, Labour - to my mind - has been a bit too obviously downplaying its chances. I think they think they have more of a chance than they are saying.
  • p.s. we haven't really played a good side yet. It's true that we may not have to until the final but then Belgium or Italy might await.

    Mornin' all!

    Denmark seem to have 'fire on the belly'; don't think they should be written off. One wonders too, how much longer Murray can keep going.

    Weatherwise it appears to be a better morning; July has brought some summer sun.
    It’s all right for some. Our weather forecast is rain for the next week including thunderstorms over the weekend.
    We were bloody luck at Wimbledon yesterday, all things considered. Saw 10 hours play from 11 am to 9 pm. Was distinctly cold until the sun came out for a couple of hours.

    A few decent days and then a rapid descent second half of the weekend back to Atlantic weather. It may then settle down end of next week.

    It's all very well going big on Staycations but UK summer weather can be horrible.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,360
    Labour by a short nose.
  • p.s. we haven't really played a good side yet. It's true that we may not have to until the final but then Belgium or Italy might await.

    Mornin' all!

    Denmark seem to have 'fire on the belly'; don't think they should be written off. One wonders too, how much longer Murray can keep going.

    Weatherwise it appears to be a better morning; July has brought some summer sun.
    It’s all right for some. Our weather forecast is rain for the next week including thunderstorms over the weekend.
    We were bloody luck at Wimbledon yesterday, all things considered. Saw 10 hours play from 11 am to 9 pm. Was distinctly cold until the sun came out for a couple of hours.

    A few decent days and then a rapid descent second half of the weekend back to Atlantic weather. It may then settle down end of next week.

    It's all very well going big on Staycations but UK summer weather can be horrible.
    Yep. I am off to the Lake District for a week on Monday
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    felix said:

    felix said:

    Mike is right. Labour are value.

    It's a risky one though, unlike C&A which felt like one of those golden tips that seemed right: thank you again, Mike: your tip paid for my day at Wimbledon yesterday among many other things!

    Peak Boris was May 25th. There is a discernible and definite shift now.

    The one thing which might lift the Conservatives back is if England win Euro 2020 in front of a full house at Wembley. Otherwise the tide has turned.

    You may be right but the polling evidence really is not there for such a claim. The government has had a rough week or so and the press is hostile but these kind of things often flare up only to fizzle out again. All we need is a Grauniead - ' the day the polls turned' and we head back to square one.
    The evidence is there and it's you that is speculating that it will fizzle out.
    You've referred to 2 polls.
    No.

    Mike referred to three opinions polls AND three of his all-important leader ratings. All six measurements show Johnson is sliding from peak.

    You may not like it. You may think it will fizzle out. But don't try and claim it isn't evidential.
    Actually that's not right. Of the 3 polls Opinium don't show the Tory vote share sliding off its peak 4 of the 5 that show a 'slide' it is within margin of error. The only one of the six that's not margin of error is YouGov - Boris approval.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    edited July 2021
    Good morning

    I commented yesterday that Starmer had a good PMQs and Boris's mumbling was embarrassing

    However, I doubt the voters of B & S tune into PMQs, but I do think the divisive, nasty and down right ugly campaign fought by Galloway may see voters rallying to Kim Leadbeater and I expect Labour to hold the seat, probably with a reduced majority

    However, returning to Boris and his inability to sack wayward colleagues and to make unpopular decisions I believe this is being noticed by conservative mps

    Last Friday, at the height of Boris and Hancock's prevarications I text my local conservative mp (who is also a personal friend) and he was unequivocal in wanting Hancock gone and confirmed he had made his views known to the whips office in no uncertain terms

    When news broke of Hancock's resignation I text the news to him and his one word response says it all 'fantastic'

    There were 80 or more conservative mps who also demanded to the whips that Hancock resigned and Hancock found no support in the cabinet

    Boris seems to have lost his mojo, (whether he has long covid is another matter) and is making unnecessary missteps and I would not be surprised if this was not being noticed across the party and with several replacements waiting in the wings, I would hope the party addresses the issue sooner rather than later

    Remember, the conservatives know how to win and have a system for changing their leaders
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Peak Boris was May 25th. There is a discernible and definite shift now.

    The one thing which might lift the Conservatives back is if England win Euro 2020 in front of a full house at Wembley. Otherwise the tide has turned.

    That is the dream scenario for Plaid Cymru and the Scottish National Party.

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344

    p.s. we haven't really played a good side yet. It's true that we may not have to until the final but then Belgium or Italy might await.

    Mornin' all!

    Denmark seem to have 'fire on the belly'; don't think they should be written off. One wonders too, how much longer Murray can keep going.

    Weatherwise it appears to be a better morning; July has brought some summer sun.
    It’s all right for some. Our weather forecast is rain for the next week including thunderstorms over the weekend.
    According to the BBC's forecast today and tomorrow will OK, then we're in for a partially at least wet weekend. As is the following weekend. So I sympathise, but will take today!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344

    p.s. we haven't really played a good side yet. It's true that we may not have to until the final but then Belgium or Italy might await.

    Mornin' all!

    Denmark seem to have 'fire on the belly'; don't think they should be written off. One wonders too, how much longer Murray can keep going.

    Weatherwise it appears to be a better morning; July has brought some summer sun.
    It’s all right for some. Our weather forecast is rain for the next week including thunderstorms over the weekend.
    We were bloody luck at Wimbledon yesterday, all things considered. Saw 10 hours play from 11 am to 9 pm. Was distinctly cold until the sun came out for a couple of hours.

    A few decent days and then a rapid descent second half of the weekend back to Atlantic weather. It may then settle down end of next week.

    It's all very well going big on Staycations but UK summer weather can be horrible.
    Yep. I am off to the Lake District for a week on Monday
    Make sure you go to that pub near Millom!
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    felix said:

    Mike is right. Labour are value.

    It's a risky one though, unlike C&A which felt like one of those golden tips that seemed right: thank you again, Mike: your tip paid for my day at Wimbledon yesterday among many other things!

    Peak Boris was May 25th. There is a discernible and definite shift now.

    The one thing which might lift the Conservatives back is if England win Euro 2020 in front of a full house at Wembley. Otherwise the tide has turned.

    You may be right but the polling evidence really is not there for such a claim. The government has had a rough week or so and the press is hostile but these kind of things often flare up only to fizzle out again. All we need is a Grauniead - ' the day the polls turned' and we head back to square one.
    What never fizzles out is Tory sleaze. The events of the last week fit into a recognisable pattern going back many decades.

    What the Tories need is a generation of nice people. Good, honest, competent, straightforward, pleasant folk with no “side”. When one looks at the coming generation of young Tories one sees the exact opposite. Tory sleaze is going to be around for at least a half century to come.
  • p.s. we haven't really played a good side yet. It's true that we may not have to until the final but then Belgium or Italy might await.

    Mornin' all!

    Denmark seem to have 'fire on the belly'; don't think they should be written off. One wonders too, how much longer Murray can keep going.

    Weatherwise it appears to be a better morning; July has brought some summer sun.
    It’s all right for some. Our weather forecast is rain for the next week including thunderstorms over the weekend.
    According to the BBC's forecast today and tomorrow will OK, then we're in for a partially at least wet weekend. As is the following weekend. So I sympathise, but will take today!
    Met office for me says rain most of tomorrow and a very wet weekend but thank you for your sympathy.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,147

    felix said:

    felix said:

    Mike is right. Labour are value.

    It's a risky one though, unlike C&A which felt like one of those golden tips that seemed right: thank you again, Mike: your tip paid for my day at Wimbledon yesterday among many other things!

    Peak Boris was May 25th. There is a discernible and definite shift now.

    The one thing which might lift the Conservatives back is if England win Euro 2020 in front of a full house at Wembley. Otherwise the tide has turned.

    You may be right but the polling evidence really is not there for such a claim. The government has had a rough week or so and the press is hostile but these kind of things often flare up only to fizzle out again. All we need is a Grauniead - ' the day the polls turned' and we head back to square one.
    The evidence is there and it's you that is speculating that it will fizzle out.
    You've referred to 2 polls.
    No.

    Mike referred to three opinions polls AND three of his all-important leader ratings. All six measurements show Johnson is sliding from peak.

    You may not like it. You may think it will fizzle out. But don't try and claim it isn't evidential.
    Opinium did not show the lead falling. Let's see what the next few weeks bring.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749

    felix said:

    Mike is right. Labour are value.

    It's a risky one though, unlike C&A which felt like one of those golden tips that seemed right: thank you again, Mike: your tip paid for my day at Wimbledon yesterday among many other things!

    Peak Boris was May 25th. There is a discernible and definite shift now.

    The one thing which might lift the Conservatives back is if England win Euro 2020 in front of a full house at Wembley. Otherwise the tide has turned.

    You may be right but the polling evidence really is not there for such a claim. The government has had a rough week or so and the press is hostile but these kind of things often flare up only to fizzle out again. All we need is a Grauniead - ' the day the polls turned' and we head back to square one.
    What never fizzles out is Tory sleaze. The events of the last week fit into a recognisable pattern going back many decades.

    What the Tories need is a generation of nice people. Good, honest, competent, straightforward, pleasant folk with no “side”. When one looks at the coming generation of young Tories one sees the exact opposite. Tory sleaze is going to be around for at least a half century to come.
    The irony of that last paragraph coming from a SNP supporter
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344

    felix said:

    Mike is right. Labour are value.

    It's a risky one though, unlike C&A which felt like one of those golden tips that seemed right: thank you again, Mike: your tip paid for my day at Wimbledon yesterday among many other things!

    Peak Boris was May 25th. There is a discernible and definite shift now.

    The one thing which might lift the Conservatives back is if England win Euro 2020 in front of a full house at Wembley. Otherwise the tide has turned.

    You may be right but the polling evidence really is not there for such a claim. The government has had a rough week or so and the press is hostile but these kind of things often flare up only to fizzle out again. All we need is a Grauniead - ' the day the polls turned' and we head back to square one.
    What never fizzles out is Tory sleaze. The events of the last week fit into a recognisable pattern going back many decades.

    What the Tories need is a generation of nice people. Good, honest, competent, straightforward, pleasant folk with no “side”. When one looks at the coming generation of young Tories one sees the exact opposite. Tory sleaze is going to be around for at least a half century to come.
    At one time the Tories had a cohort of MP's who were from the squirearchy; didn't need a job but needed an occupation. People who 'did the right thing'. That 'right thing' might not have been so for the factory workers and other city dwellers, but there was a sort of code behind it.
    Those people have, it seems to me, vanished.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    p.s. we haven't really played a good side yet. It's true that we may not have to until the final but then Belgium or Italy might await.

    Mornin' all!

    Denmark seem to have 'fire on the belly'; don't think they should be written off. One wonders too, how much longer Murray can keep going.

    Weatherwise it appears to be a better morning; July has brought some summer sun.
    Why would a good tournament for independence supporter Andy Murray boost Con polling figures?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    felix said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    Mike is right. Labour are value.

    It's a risky one though, unlike C&A which felt like one of those golden tips that seemed right: thank you again, Mike: your tip paid for my day at Wimbledon yesterday among many other things!

    Peak Boris was May 25th. There is a discernible and definite shift now.

    The one thing which might lift the Conservatives back is if England win Euro 2020 in front of a full house at Wembley. Otherwise the tide has turned.

    You may be right but the polling evidence really is not there for such a claim. The government has had a rough week or so and the press is hostile but these kind of things often flare up only to fizzle out again. All we need is a Grauniead - ' the day the polls turned' and we head back to square one.
    The evidence is there and it's you that is speculating that it will fizzle out.
    You've referred to 2 polls.
    No.

    Mike referred to three opinions polls AND three of his all-important leader ratings. All six measurements show Johnson is sliding from peak.

    You may not like it. You may think it will fizzle out. But don't try and claim it isn't evidential.
    Opinium did not show the lead falling. Let's see what the next few weeks bring.
    The conservatives have been between 8% -10% for months, despite some extreme numbers both higher and lower

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    felix said:

    Mike is right. Labour are value.

    It's a risky one though, unlike C&A which felt like one of those golden tips that seemed right: thank you again, Mike: your tip paid for my day at Wimbledon yesterday among many other things!

    Peak Boris was May 25th. There is a discernible and definite shift now.

    The one thing which might lift the Conservatives back is if England win Euro 2020 in front of a full house at Wembley. Otherwise the tide has turned.

    You may be right but the polling evidence really is not there for such a claim. The government has had a rough week or so and the press is hostile but these kind of things often flare up only to fizzle out again. All we need is a Grauniead - ' the day the polls turned' and we head back to square one.
    What never fizzles out is Tory sleaze. The events of the last week fit into a recognisable pattern going back many decades.

    What the Tories need is a generation of nice people. Good, honest, competent, straightforward, pleasant folk with no “side”. When one looks at the coming generation of young Tories one sees the exact opposite. Tory sleaze is going to be around for at least a half century to come.
    At one time the Tories had a cohort of MP's who were from the squirearchy; didn't need a job but needed an occupation. People who 'did the right thing'. That 'right thing' might not have been so for the factory workers and other city dwellers, but there was a sort of code behind it.
    Those people have, it seems to me, vanished.
    How many people can afford to live on inherited wealth today?

    That might be one reason why they’ve vanished.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    Breaking

    Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344
    edited July 2021

    p.s. we haven't really played a good side yet. It's true that we may not have to until the final but then Belgium or Italy might await.

    Mornin' all!

    Denmark seem to have 'fire on the belly'; don't think they should be written off. One wonders too, how much longer Murray can keep going.

    Weatherwise it appears to be a better morning; July has brought some summer sun.
    Why would a good tournament for independence supporter Andy Murray boost Con polling figures?
    I don't want to see a boost for Con polling figures. I want 40% of the country to come to it's senses and stop admiring The Clown.
    My Murray comment was simply that after numerous operations he's sometimes, particularly after a long match, looking as though his body is saying 'enough'.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    edited July 2021

    p.s. we haven't really played a good side yet. It's true that we may not have to until the final but then Belgium or Italy might await.

    Mornin' all!

    Denmark seem to have 'fire on the belly'; don't think they should be written off. One wonders too, how much longer Murray can keep going.

    Weatherwise it appears to be a better morning; July has brought some summer sun.
    It’s all right for some. Our weather forecast is rain for the next week including thunderstorms over the weekend.
    It's all very well going big on Staycations but UK summer weather can be horrible.
    And don’t forget the midges, miles of queues behind caravans and poor service as all the staff have gone home to mainland Europe.

    A lot of folk are going to be in a foul mood come September… just as the economic shit hits the fan.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344
    edited July 2021
    ydoethur said:

    felix said:

    Mike is right. Labour are value.

    It's a risky one though, unlike C&A which felt like one of those golden tips that seemed right: thank you again, Mike: your tip paid for my day at Wimbledon yesterday among many other things!

    Peak Boris was May 25th. There is a discernible and definite shift now.

    The one thing which might lift the Conservatives back is if England win Euro 2020 in front of a full house at Wembley. Otherwise the tide has turned.

    You may be right but the polling evidence really is not there for such a claim. The government has had a rough week or so and the press is hostile but these kind of things often flare up only to fizzle out again. All we need is a Grauniead - ' the day the polls turned' and we head back to square one.
    What never fizzles out is Tory sleaze. The events of the last week fit into a recognisable pattern going back many decades.

    What the Tories need is a generation of nice people. Good, honest, competent, straightforward, pleasant folk with no “side”. When one looks at the coming generation of young Tories one sees the exact opposite. Tory sleaze is going to be around for at least a half century to come.
    At one time the Tories had a cohort of MP's who were from the squirearchy; didn't need a job but needed an occupation. People who 'did the right thing'. That 'right thing' might not have been so for the factory workers and other city dwellers, but there was a sort of code behind it.
    Those people have, it seems to me, vanished.
    How many people can afford to live on inherited wealth today?

    That might be one reason why they’ve vanished.
    True. But some 'blame' attaches to Tory selection committees.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited July 2021
    Fair point Mike, but I think the national polls were closing at the time of the Hartlepool by election, and the Tories won that by a much bigger margin than anyone expected.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election
  • felix said:

    Mike is right. Labour are value.

    It's a risky one though, unlike C&A which felt like one of those golden tips that seemed right: thank you again, Mike: your tip paid for my day at Wimbledon yesterday among many other things!

    Peak Boris was May 25th. There is a discernible and definite shift now.

    The one thing which might lift the Conservatives back is if England win Euro 2020 in front of a full house at Wembley. Otherwise the tide has turned.

    You may be right but the polling evidence really is not there for such a claim. The government has had a rough week or so and the press is hostile but these kind of things often flare up only to fizzle out again. All we need is a Grauniead - ' the day the polls turned' and we head back to square one.
    What never fizzles out is Tory sleaze. The events of the last week fit into a recognisable pattern going back many decades.

    What the Tories need is a generation of nice people. Good, honest, competent, straightforward, pleasant folk with no “side”. When one looks at the coming generation of young Tories one sees the exact opposite. Tory sleaze is going to be around for at least a half century to come.
    At one time the Tories had a cohort of MP's who were from the squirearchy; didn't need a job but needed an occupation. People who 'did the right thing'. That 'right thing' might not have been so for the factory workers and other city dwellers, but there was a sort of code behind it.
    Those people have, it seems to me, vanished.
    And labour had manual workers who understood their voters to oppose them. Our political class now has far more in common with each other than either side of the electorate.
  • Breaking

    Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland

    Absolutely coincidental that this announced on by Election Day
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749

    Breaking

    Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland

    Absolutely coincidental that this announced on by Election Day
    I hadn't thought about that but if so good politics
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    felix said:

    Mike is right. Labour are value.

    It's a risky one though, unlike C&A which felt like one of those golden tips that seemed right: thank you again, Mike: your tip paid for my day at Wimbledon yesterday among many other things!

    Peak Boris was May 25th. There is a discernible and definite shift now.

    The one thing which might lift the Conservatives back is if England win Euro 2020 in front of a full house at Wembley. Otherwise the tide has turned.

    You may be right but the polling evidence really is not there for such a claim. The government has had a rough week or so and the press is hostile but these kind of things often flare up only to fizzle out again. All we need is a Grauniead - ' the day the polls turned' and we head back to square one.
    What never fizzles out is Tory sleaze. The events of the last week fit into a recognisable pattern going back many decades.

    What the Tories need is a generation of nice people. Good, honest, competent, straightforward, pleasant folk with no “side”. When one looks at the coming generation of young Tories one sees the exact opposite. Tory sleaze is going to be around for at least a half century to come.
    At one time the Tories had a cohort of MP's who were from the squirearchy; didn't need a job but needed an occupation. People who 'did the right thing'. That 'right thing' might not have been so for the factory workers and other city dwellers, but there was a sort of code behind it.
    Those people have, it seems to me, vanished.
    And who has replaced them? Wide boys.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344

    Breaking

    Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland

    Absolutely coincidental that this announced on by Election Day
    I hadn't thought about that but if so good politics
    The BBC also says that
    'The government is contributing to the cost of the expansion, but a precise figure has not been disclosed.'

    Ion other words, a massive handout. Some might call it a bribe.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    100th anniversary of the founding of the Chinese Communist Party today. Its been a wild ride for a century.

    Will we ever see the like of Mao again? Perhaps the only leading Communist with a worldwide following. Xi is trying the same cult, but without the same anti-establishment and anti-colonial following.

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749

    Breaking

    Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland

    Absolutely coincidental that this announced on by Election Day
    I hadn't thought about that but if so good politics
    The BBC also says that
    'The government is contributing to the cost of the expansion, but a precise figure has not been disclosed.'

    Ion other words, a massive handout. Some might call it a bribe.

    I am sorry but investing in the future green economy is essential and is actively promoted by all governments

  • Breaking

    Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland

    Absolutely coincidental that this announced on by Election Day
    I hadn't thought about that but if so good politics
    The BBC also says that
    'The government is contributing to the cost of the expansion, but a precise figure has not been disclosed.'

    Ion other words, a massive handout. Some might call it a bribe.

    Yes it is but I would rather our government were spending the money here than in the eu. I dare say they will, or should, be making that point.
  • Foxy said:

    100th anniversary of the founding of the Chinese Communist Party today. Its been a wild ride for a century.

    Will we ever see the like of Mao again? Perhaps the only leading Communist with a worldwide following. Xi is trying the same cult, but without the same anti-establishment and anti-colonial following.

    Indeed China is now the biggest colonial power in the world.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Breaking

    Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland

    Absolutely coincidental that this announced on by Election Day
    I hadn't thought about that but if so good politics
    The BBC also says that
    'The government is contributing to the cost of the expansion, but a precise figure has not been disclosed.'

    Ion other words, a massive handout. Some might call it a bribe.

    The EU will be taking those unilateral "appropriate remedial measures" described in the TCA. Batten down the hatches.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    edited July 2021
    felix said:

    felix said:

    Mike is right. Labour are value.

    It's a risky one though, unlike C&A which felt like one of those golden tips that seemed right: thank you again, Mike: your tip paid for my day at Wimbledon yesterday among many other things!

    Peak Boris was May 25th. There is a discernible and definite shift now.

    The one thing which might lift the Conservatives back is if England win Euro 2020 in front of a full house at Wembley. Otherwise the tide has turned.

    You may be right but the polling evidence really is not there for such a claim. The government has had a rough week or so and the press is hostile but these kind of things often flare up only to fizzle out again. All we need is a Grauniead - ' the day the polls turned' and we head back to square one.
    What never fizzles out is Tory sleaze. The events of the last week fit into a recognisable pattern going back many decades.

    What the Tories need is a generation of nice people. Good, honest, competent, straightforward, pleasant folk with no “side”. When one looks at the coming generation of young Tories one sees the exact opposite. Tory sleaze is going to be around for at least a half century to come.
    No sleaze in the SNP thankfully. Salmond and Sturgeon say Hi..
    Sleaze comes when a party is so long in power that they think that they can get away with anything and still get elected.

    People like @Big_G_NorthWales will vote for a donkey with a blue rosette, and in Scotland will vote SNP until independence. Only after that will Scottish politics return to competitive parties.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    If Labour do win, is it a shock or were the betting markets just wrong? There’s no real reason why the Tories should be 1/6 here, and the shock part of the reaction to a Labour win would be based on that. In normal circumstances, if you have had to price it up at the time of the last GE for instance, Labour would have been favourites on Batley & Spen
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749

    Breaking

    Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland

    Absolutely coincidental that this announced on by Election Day
    I hadn't thought about that but if so good politics
    The BBC also says that
    'The government is contributing to the cost of the expansion, but a precise figure has not been disclosed.'

    Ion other words, a massive handout. Some might call it a bribe.

    The EU will be taking those unilateral "appropriate remedial measures" described in the TCA. Batten down the hatches.
    I think it is sad that anyone would support the EU v the UK investing in green technology and jobs
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Breaking

    Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland

    Absolutely coincidental that this announced on by Election Day
    I hadn't thought about that but if so good politics
    The BBC also says that
    'The government is contributing to the cost of the expansion, but a precise figure has not been disclosed.'

    Ion other words, a massive handout. Some might call it a bribe.

    I am sorry but investing in the future green economy is essential and is actively promoted by all governments

    All governments recently signed a “level playing field” treaty, but one of the signatories was crossing their fingers behind their back. Guess which one.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    Mike is right. Labour are value.

    It's a risky one though, unlike C&A which felt like one of those golden tips that seemed right: thank you again, Mike: your tip paid for my day at Wimbledon yesterday among many other things!

    Peak Boris was May 25th. There is a discernible and definite shift now.

    The one thing which might lift the Conservatives back is if England win Euro 2020 in front of a full house at Wembley. Otherwise the tide has turned.

    You may be right but the polling evidence really is not there for such a claim. The government has had a rough week or so and the press is hostile but these kind of things often flare up only to fizzle out again. All we need is a Grauniead - ' the day the polls turned' and we head back to square one.
    What never fizzles out is Tory sleaze. The events of the last week fit into a recognisable pattern going back many decades.

    What the Tories need is a generation of nice people. Good, honest, competent, straightforward, pleasant folk with no “side”. When one looks at the coming generation of young Tories one sees the exact opposite. Tory sleaze is going to be around for at least a half century to come.
    No sleaze in the SNP thankfully. Salmond and Sturgeon say Hi..
    Sleaze comes when a party is so long in power that they think that they can get away with anything and still get elected.

    People like @Big_G_NorthWales will vote for a donkey with a blue rosette, and in Scotland will vote SNP until independence. Only after that will Scottish politics return to competitive parties.
    And explain why I voted for Blair at two GE

    And how many labour supporters voted labour with Corbyn

    And I would not vote for any of the donkeys leading the lib dems
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Breaking

    Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland

    Absolutely coincidental that this announced on by Election Day
    I hadn't thought about that but if so good politics
    The BBC also says that
    'The government is contributing to the cost of the expansion, but a precise figure has not been disclosed.'

    Ion other words, a massive handout. Some might call it a bribe.

    The EU will be taking those unilateral "appropriate remedial measures" described in the TCA. Batten down the hatches.
    I think it is sad that anyone would support the EU v the UK investing in green technology and jobs
    The UK has never had the 'state aid' that the EU has and still won't. But we're investing in green jobs in the UK as the government has changed the law on what engines are and aren't allowed which makes sense.

    Better for the investment to be done here than sent to Brussels and invested in another country.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    Mike is right. Labour are value.

    It's a risky one though, unlike C&A which felt like one of those golden tips that seemed right: thank you again, Mike: your tip paid for my day at Wimbledon yesterday among many other things!

    Peak Boris was May 25th. There is a discernible and definite shift now.

    The one thing which might lift the Conservatives back is if England win Euro 2020 in front of a full house at Wembley. Otherwise the tide has turned.

    You may be right but the polling evidence really is not there for such a claim. The government has had a rough week or so and the press is hostile but these kind of things often flare up only to fizzle out again. All we need is a Grauniead - ' the day the polls turned' and we head back to square one.
    What never fizzles out is Tory sleaze. The events of the last week fit into a recognisable pattern going back many decades.

    What the Tories need is a generation of nice people. Good, honest, competent, straightforward, pleasant folk with no “side”. When one looks at the coming generation of young Tories one sees the exact opposite. Tory sleaze is going to be around for at least a half century to come.
    No sleaze in the SNP thankfully. Salmond and Sturgeon say Hi..
    Sleaze comes when a party is so long in power that they think that they can get away with anything and still get elected.

    People like @Big_G_NorthWales will vote for a donkey with a blue rosette, and in Scotland will vote SNP until independence. Only after that will Scottish politics return to competitive parties.
    The SNP will wither away post-independence. I, and many other members, will leave and help build new, normal parties. Our goal is for Scotland to be a normal country.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,593

    Breaking

    Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland

    Absolutely coincidental that this announced on by Election Day
    I hadn't thought about that but if so good politics
    The BBC also says that
    'The government is contributing to the cost of the expansion, but a precise figure has not been disclosed.'

    Ion other words, a massive handout. Some might call it a bribe.

    Whatever it is it's good news on a number of fronts. The most important of which is that the government would not be throwing money at this if it was genuinely planning any kind of serious trade confrontation with the market into which most of these batteries will be sold. Strip away all the froth and there may be a level of realism entering the decision making process in Westminster. Alternatively, as with the Northern Ireland Protocol it could be the government doesn't understand the implications of what it is doing. I guess we can never rule that out with Boris Johnson.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Breaking

    Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland

    Absolutely coincidental that this announced on by Election Day
    I hadn't thought about that but if so good politics
    The BBC also says that
    'The government is contributing to the cost of the expansion, but a precise figure has not been disclosed.'

    Ion other words, a massive handout. Some might call it a bribe.

    I am sorry but investing in the future green economy is essential and is actively promoted by all governments

    All governments recently signed a “level playing field” treaty, but one of the signatories was crossing their fingers behind their back. Guess which one.
    The EU. 'State aid' will be higher in the EU than the UK just as it always has been in recent times.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    edited July 2021

    Foxy said:

    100th anniversary of the founding of the Chinese Communist Party today. Its been a wild ride for a century.

    Will we ever see the like of Mao again? Perhaps the only leading Communist with a worldwide following. Xi is trying the same cult, but without the same anti-establishment and anti-colonial following.

    I have spent time reading Frank dikotter’s books on communist China, The tragedy of liberation and Mao’s great famine. Deserves much wider attention. The evil that was done, the millions murdered and starved, are just not widely enough known. Mao was every bit the monster that Hitler or Stalin were.
    Yes, I have been reading Julia Lovell's book on Maoism, and undoubtedly Mao is as bad or worse than any political figure in history. Very influential though, and I think his ideas still have potency. He harnassed that Populist zeal to bring down the old elite in ways that are still influential, both Trump and ISIS use his methods.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749

    Breaking

    Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland

    Absolutely coincidental that this announced on by Election Day
    I hadn't thought about that but if so good politics
    The BBC also says that
    'The government is contributing to the cost of the expansion, but a precise figure has not been disclosed.'

    Ion other words, a massive handout. Some might call it a bribe.

    I am sorry but investing in the future green economy is essential and is actively promoted by all governments

    All governments recently signed a “level playing field” treaty, but one of the signatories was crossing their fingers behind their back. Guess which one.
    The EU are over and the UK will decide on investments and jobs
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,662
    felix said:

    Mike is right. Labour are value.

    It's a risky one though, unlike C&A which felt like one of those golden tips that seemed right: thank you again, Mike: your tip paid for my day at Wimbledon yesterday among many other things!

    Peak Boris was May 25th. There is a discernible and definite shift now.

    The one thing which might lift the Conservatives back is if England win Euro 2020 in front of a full house at Wembley. Otherwise the tide has turned.

    You may be right but the polling evidence really is not there for such a claim. The goverNEneedent has had a rough week or so and the press is hostile but these kind of ts oftTge Toen flare up only to fizzle out again. All we need is a Grauniead - ' the day the polls turned' and we head back to square oTne.
    Rogerdamus to call.it for Labour
    felix said:

    felix said:

    Mike is right. Labour are value.

    It's a risky one though, unlike C&A which felt like one of those golden tips that seemed right: thank you again, Mike: your tip paid for my day at Wimbledon yesterday among many other things!

    Peak Boris was May 25th. There is a discernible and definite shift now.

    The one thing which might lift the Conservatives back is if England win Euro 2020 in front of a full house at Wembley. Otherwise the tide has turned.

    You may be right but the polling evidence really is not there for such a claim. The government has had a rough week or so and the press is hostile but these kind of things often flare up only to fizzle out again. All we need is a Grauniead - ' the day the polls turned' and we head back to square one.
    The evidence is there and it's you that is speculating that it will fizzle out.
    You've referred to 2 polls. RW over the past month has seen 2 moves to Labour and 2 back to the Tories. CR has seen a move to Labour from what was an unusually high Tory lead. The current poll average of all has barely changed over the past year. This site is about speculating what things mean. As I said I expect a Labour hold.
    The Tories need Rogerdamus to call it for Labour... that would be game over 🤣🤣

    Has anyone factored in the euphoria of the Country having turned over the Germans...
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    felix said:

    Mike is right. Labour are value.

    It's a risky one though, unlike C&A which felt like one of those golden tips that seemed right: thank you again, Mike: your tip paid for my day at Wimbledon yesterday among many other things!

    Peak Boris was May 25th. There is a discernible and definite shift now.

    The one thing which might lift the Conservatives back is if England win Euro 2020 in front of a full house at Wembley. Otherwise the tide has turned.

    You may be right but the polling evidence really is not there for such a claim. The government has had a rough week or so and the press is hostile but these kind of things often flare up only to fizzle out again. All we need is a Grauniead - ' the day the polls turned' and we head back to square one.
    What never fizzles out is Tory sleaze. The events of the last week fit into a recognisable pattern going back many decades.

    What the Tories need is a generation of nice people. Good, honest, competent, straightforward, pleasant folk with no “side”. When one looks at the coming generation of young Tories one sees the exact opposite. Tory sleaze is going to be around for at least a half century to come.
    We’ve found other ways to serve
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749

    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    Mike is right. Labour are value.

    It's a risky one though, unlike C&A which felt like one of those golden tips that seemed right: thank you again, Mike: your tip paid for my day at Wimbledon yesterday among many other things!

    Peak Boris was May 25th. There is a discernible and definite shift now.

    The one thing which might lift the Conservatives back is if England win Euro 2020 in front of a full house at Wembley. Otherwise the tide has turned.

    You may be right but the polling evidence really is not there for such a claim. The government has had a rough week or so and the press is hostile but these kind of things often flare up only to fizzle out again. All we need is a Grauniead - ' the day the polls turned' and we head back to square one.
    What never fizzles out is Tory sleaze. The events of the last week fit into a recognisable pattern going back many decades.

    What the Tories need is a generation of nice people. Good, honest, competent, straightforward, pleasant folk with no “side”. When one looks at the coming generation of young Tories one sees the exact opposite. Tory sleaze is going to be around for at least a half century to come.
    No sleaze in the SNP thankfully. Salmond and Sturgeon say Hi..
    Sleaze comes when a party is so long in power that they think that they can get away with anything and still get elected.

    People like @Big_G_NorthWales will vote for a donkey with a blue rosette, and in Scotland will vote SNP until independence. Only after that will Scottish politics return to competitive parties.
    The SNP will wither away post-independence. I, and many other members, will leave and help build new, normal parties. Our goal is for Scotland to be a normal country.
    The SNP are going to be around for generations then, but nothing changes as they were active in the 1950s when I lived in Berwick
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480

    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    Mike is right. Labour are value.

    It's a risky one though, unlike C&A which felt like one of those golden tips that seemed right: thank you again, Mike: your tip paid for my day at Wimbledon yesterday among many other things!

    Peak Boris was May 25th. There is a discernible and definite shift now.

    The one thing which might lift the Conservatives back is if England win Euro 2020 in front of a full house at Wembley. Otherwise the tide has turned.

    You may be right but the polling evidence really is not there for such a claim. The government has had a rough week or so and the press is hostile but these kind of things often flare up only to fizzle out again. All we need is a Grauniead - ' the day the polls turned' and we head back to square one.
    What never fizzles out is Tory sleaze. The events of the last week fit into a recognisable pattern going back many decades.

    What the Tories need is a generation of nice people. Good, honest, competent, straightforward, pleasant folk with no “side”. When one looks at the coming generation of young Tories one sees the exact opposite. Tory sleaze is going to be around for at least a half century to come.
    No sleaze in the SNP thankfully. Salmond and Sturgeon say Hi..
    Sleaze comes when a party is so long in power that they think that they can get away with anything and still get elected.

    People like @Big_G_NorthWales will vote for a donkey with a blue rosette, and in Scotland will vote SNP until independence. Only after that will Scottish politics return to competitive parties.
    The SNP will wither away post-independence. I, and many other members, will leave and help build new, normal parties. Our goal is for Scotland to be a normal country.
    Yes, I think that until there is independence the SNP with all its many faults and infighting will dominate Scotland. Afterwards it can safely be dissolved, into rival parties, and more functional politics.

    One party states are not good, whether SNP in Holyrood, Labour in Cardiff, DUP in Stormont or Tory in Westminster. They all generate sleaze when hegemonic.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,593

    Breaking

    Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland

    Absolutely coincidental that this announced on by Election Day
    I hadn't thought about that but if so good politics
    The BBC also says that
    'The government is contributing to the cost of the expansion, but a precise figure has not been disclosed.'

    Ion other words, a massive handout. Some might call it a bribe.

    I am sorry but investing in the future green economy is essential and is actively promoted by all governments

    All governments recently signed a “level playing field” treaty, but one of the signatories was crossing their fingers behind their back. Guess which one.
    The EU are over and the UK will decide on investments and jobs

    Investment decisions will surely be based on access to markets into which to sell, so the EU is not over. It's just that the relationship and dependency is different.

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    Nissan headlining on BBC news
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,555

    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    Mike is right. Labour are value.

    It's a risky one though, unlike C&A which felt like one of those golden tips that seemed right: thank you again, Mike: your tip paid for my day at Wimbledon yesterday among many other things!

    Peak Boris was May 25th. There is a discernible and definite shift now.

    The one thing which might lift the Conservatives back is if England win Euro 2020 in front of a full house at Wembley. Otherwise the tide has turned.

    You may be right but the polling evidence really is not there for such a claim. The government has had a rough week or so and the press is hostile but these kind of things often flare up only to fizzle out again. All we need is a Grauniead - ' the day the polls turned' and we head back to square one.
    What never fizzles out is Tory sleaze. The events of the last week fit into a recognisable pattern going back many decades.

    What the Tories need is a generation of nice people. Good, honest, competent, straightforward, pleasant folk with no “side”. When one looks at the coming generation of young Tories one sees the exact opposite. Tory sleaze is going to be around for at least a half century to come.
    No sleaze in the SNP thankfully. Salmond and Sturgeon say Hi..
    Sleaze comes when a party is so long in power that they think that they can get away with anything and still get elected.

    People like @Big_G_NorthWales will vote for a donkey with a blue rosette, and in Scotland will vote SNP until independence. Only after that will Scottish politics return to competitive parties.
    And explain why I voted for Blair at two GE

    And how many labour supporters voted labour with Corbyn

    And I would not vote for any of the donkeys leading the lib dems
    Classic whaboutery. A Boris voter avoiding the serious questions.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,795

    Good morning

    I commented yesterday that Starmer had a good PMQs and Boris's mumbling was embarrassing

    However, I doubt the voters of B & S tune into PMQs, but I do think the divisive, nasty and down right ugly campaign fought by Galloway may see voters rallying to Kim Leadbeater and I expect Labour to hold the seat, probably with a reduced majority

    However, returning to Boris and his inability to sack wayward colleagues and to make unpopular decisions I believe this is being noticed by conservative mps

    Last Friday, at the height of Boris and Hancock's prevarications I text my local conservative mp (who is also a personal friend) and he was unequivocal in wanting Hancock gone and confirmed he had made his views known to the whips office in no uncertain terms

    When news broke of Hancock's resignation I text the news to him and his one word response says it all 'fantastic'

    There were 80 or more conservative mps who also demanded to the whips that Hancock resigned and Hancock found no support in the cabinet

    Boris seems to have lost his mojo, (whether he has long covid is another matter) and is making unnecessary missteps and I would not be surprised if this was not being noticed across the party and with several replacements waiting in the wings, I would hope the party addresses the issue sooner rather than later

    Remember, the conservatives know how to win and have a system for changing their leaders

    Did your MP friend express a view about wanting Mancock gone last time he broke the ministerial code? Or Patel gone for breaking the ministerial code? Or Johnson gone for repeatedly breaking the ministerial code, having his ministers lie to parliament etc etc?

    Tories can't pull faces at Matt Hancock without applying the same rules to Patel and Johnson and the others. Without being massive hypocrites.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    I have backed Labour at about 5/1, it seems crazy they are such a big price. They should be favourites really. It is a case of the market being so different to what I think it should be that I must be missing something massively important, but have to have a small bet at the price.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,123
    isam said:

    I have backed Labour at about 5/1, it seems crazy they are such a big price. They should be favourites really. It is a case of the market being so different to what I think it should be that I must be missing something massively important, but have to have a small bet at the price.

    All about Galloway. If Alastair Meeks was around, he’d be pointing out that betting markets tend to overestimate the potential of far right candidates.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749

    Good morning

    I commented yesterday that Starmer had a good PMQs and Boris's mumbling was embarrassing

    However, I doubt the voters of B & S tune into PMQs, but I do think the divisive, nasty and down right ugly campaign fought by Galloway may see voters rallying to Kim Leadbeater and I expect Labour to hold the seat, probably with a reduced majority

    However, returning to Boris and his inability to sack wayward colleagues and to make unpopular decisions I believe this is being noticed by conservative mps

    Last Friday, at the height of Boris and Hancock's prevarications I text my local conservative mp (who is also a personal friend) and he was unequivocal in wanting Hancock gone and confirmed he had made his views known to the whips office in no uncertain terms

    When news broke of Hancock's resignation I text the news to him and his one word response says it all 'fantastic'

    There were 80 or more conservative mps who also demanded to the whips that Hancock resigned and Hancock found no support in the cabinet

    Boris seems to have lost his mojo, (whether he has long covid is another matter) and is making unnecessary missteps and I would not be surprised if this was not being noticed across the party and with several replacements waiting in the wings, I would hope the party addresses the issue sooner rather than later

    Remember, the conservatives know how to win and have a system for changing their leaders

    Did your MP friend express a view about wanting Mancock gone last time he broke the ministerial code? Or Patel gone for breaking the ministerial code? Or Johnson gone for repeatedly breaking the ministerial code, having his ministers lie to parliament etc etc?

    Tories can't pull faces at Matt Hancock without applying the same rules to Patel and Johnson and the others. Without being massive hypocrites.
    No idea who Mancock is but the conservatives will act to replace their leader when they consider the time has come
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,795

    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    Mike is right. Labour are value.

    It's a risky one though, unlike C&A which felt like one of those golden tips that seemed right: thank you again, Mike: your tip paid for my day at Wimbledon yesterday among many other things!

    Peak Boris was May 25th. There is a discernible and definite shift now.

    The one thing which might lift the Conservatives back is if England win Euro 2020 in front of a full house at Wembley. Otherwise the tide has turned.

    You may be right but the polling evidence really is not there for such a claim. The government has had a rough week or so and the press is hostile but these kind of things often flare up only to fizzle out again. All we need is a Grauniead - ' the day the polls turned' and we head back to square one.
    What never fizzles out is Tory sleaze. The events of the last week fit into a recognisable pattern going back many decades.

    What the Tories need is a generation of nice people. Good, honest, competent, straightforward, pleasant folk with no “side”. When one looks at the coming generation of young Tories one sees the exact opposite. Tory sleaze is going to be around for at least a half century to come.
    No sleaze in the SNP thankfully. Salmond and Sturgeon say Hi..
    Sleaze comes when a party is so long in power that they think that they can get away with anything and still get elected.

    People like @Big_G_NorthWales will vote for a donkey with a blue rosette, and in Scotland will vote SNP until independence. Only after that will Scottish politics return to competitive parties.
    The SNP will wither away post-independence. I, and many other members, will leave and help build new, normal parties. Our goal is for Scotland to be a normal country.
    I think the SNP do a (mainly) decent job in government, especially considering they're now in their 4th term. I also think that Scottish independence is inevitable and that I will likely vote for it as the Union is unsustainable.

    That is very different from me wanting to become a member of or support the SNP. I hope that independent Scotland would retain its general level of civilisation and decency which has been lost south of the wall, but there are other parties who can deliver that.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,700
    Dr. Foxy, it's a few years ago but Xi Jinping Thought was announced, which puts him in a category, I think, of just two (Mao being the other).

    His move away from both the ceasefire on internal corruption purges and the customary succession approach do make me wonder how long he'll be there and how he'll be removed. I'm sure he'll be fine for at least a few years to a decade, but if the succession mechanism isn't replaced then potential rivals may be looking at a way of achieving it without his consent.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Good morning

    I commented yesterday that Starmer had a good PMQs and Boris's mumbling was embarrassing

    However, I doubt the voters of B & S tune into PMQs, but I do think the divisive, nasty and down right ugly campaign fought by Galloway may see voters rallying to Kim Leadbeater and I expect Labour to hold the seat, probably with a reduced majority

    However, returning to Boris and his inability to sack wayward colleagues and to make unpopular decisions I believe this is being noticed by conservative mps

    Last Friday, at the height of Boris and Hancock's prevarications I text my local conservative mp (who is also a personal friend) and he was unequivocal in wanting Hancock gone and confirmed he had made his views known to the whips office in no uncertain terms

    When news broke of Hancock's resignation I text the news to him and his one word response says it all 'fantastic'

    There were 80 or more conservative mps who also demanded to the whips that Hancock resigned and Hancock found no support in the cabinet

    Boris seems to have lost his mojo, (whether he has long covid is another matter) and is making unnecessary missteps and I would not be surprised if this was not being noticed across the party and with several replacements waiting in the wings, I would hope the party addresses the issue sooner rather than later

    Remember, the conservatives know how to win and have a system for changing their leaders

    Did your MP friend express a view about wanting Mancock gone last time he broke the ministerial code? Or Patel gone for breaking the ministerial code? Or Johnson gone for repeatedly breaking the ministerial code, having his ministers lie to parliament etc etc?

    Tories can't pull faces at Matt Hancock without applying the same rules to Patel and Johnson and the others. Without being massive hypocrites.
    Of course you can.

    Its not about "the ministerial code", its about Hancock enforcing laws on the rest of us that he then broke.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    edited July 2021

    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    Mike is right. Labour are value.

    It's a risky one though, unlike C&A which felt like one of those golden tips that seemed right: thank you again, Mike: your tip paid for my day at Wimbledon yesterday among many other things!

    Peak Boris was May 25th. There is a discernible and definite shift now.

    The one thing which might lift the Conservatives back is if England win Euro 2020 in front of a full house at Wembley. Otherwise the tide has turned.

    You may be right but the polling evidence really is not there for such a claim. The government has had a rough week or so and the press is hostile but these kind of things often flare up only to fizzle out again. All we need is a Grauniead - ' the day the polls turned' and we head back to square one.
    What never fizzles out is Tory sleaze. The events of the last week fit into a recognisable pattern going back many decades.

    What the Tories need is a generation of nice people. Good, honest, competent, straightforward, pleasant folk with no “side”. When one looks at the coming generation of young Tories one sees the exact opposite. Tory sleaze is going to be around for at least a half century to come.
    No sleaze in the SNP thankfully. Salmond and Sturgeon say Hi..
    Sleaze comes when a party is so long in power that they think that they can get away with anything and still get elected.

    People like @Big_G_NorthWales will vote for a donkey with a blue rosette, and in Scotland will vote SNP until independence. Only after that will Scottish politics return to competitive parties.
    And explain why I voted for Blair at two GE

    And how many labour supporters voted labour with Corbyn

    And I would not vote for any of the donkeys leading the lib dems
    Yeah, you always mither about the Tories but turn out for them. No crime is big enough to stop you, in the last two decades.

    My parents are the same, no way would my mother have voted for a serial adulterer who abandons his his children in the past. The personality cult of Johnson blinds to all faults.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749

    Breaking

    Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland

    Absolutely coincidental that this announced on by Election Day
    I hadn't thought about that but if so good politics
    The BBC also says that
    'The government is contributing to the cost of the expansion, but a precise figure has not been disclosed.'

    Ion other words, a massive handout. Some might call it a bribe.

    I am sorry but investing in the future green economy is essential and is actively promoted by all governments

    All governments recently signed a “level playing field” treaty, but one of the signatories was crossing their fingers behind their back. Guess which one.
    The EU are over and the UK will decide on investments and jobs

    Investment decisions will surely be based on access to markets into which to sell, so the EU is not over. It's just that the relationship and dependency is different.

    The EU dictating UK investment decisions to the UK government is over
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Sandpit said:

    Breaking

    Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland

    Oh no, not another massive investment in the North of England, to follow the $450m vaccine factory yesterday.

    It’s almost like we have a business department and a trade department, out selling the UK as a great place to do business.
    I'd never seen this before. Brilliant! Where is this, or is it a fake picture?

    image
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    Tories will win B and S, with a majority smaller than the Galloway vote. Galloway on 10-15% in third place.

    No local knowledge, just gut feeling.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Breaking

    Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland

    Absolutely coincidental that this announced on by Election Day
    I hadn't thought about that but if so good politics
    The BBC also says that
    'The government is contributing to the cost of the expansion, but a precise figure has not been disclosed.'

    Ion other words, a massive handout. Some might call it a bribe.

    I am sorry but investing in the future green economy is essential and is actively promoted by all governments

    All governments recently signed a “level playing field” treaty, but one of the signatories was crossing their fingers behind their back. Guess which one.
    Regional development aid is standard practice

    But if you are worried about state aid look at bpifrance
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,593
    isam said:

    I have backed Labour at about 5/1, it seems crazy they are such a big price. They should be favourites really. It is a case of the market being so different to what I think it should be that I must be missing something massively important, but have to have a small bet at the price.

    With all the talk of Galloway, what everyone seems to have forgotten is the pro-Brexit Wool Spinners (or whatever they were called) who stood in 2019 and got a decent chunk of the vote. Even without Gorgeous George, the Hartlepool precedent would strongly indicate that them not standing this time makes the Tories favourites. However, the one poll we have seen did show Labour taking slightly more votes from the Tories than the other way around, so in Galloway's absence this probably would have been very close and may well be a lot closer than Hartlepool was. 5/1 is a very decent price.

  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,795

    Breaking

    Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland

    This is brilliant news both for sustainability and for the NE of England. Hopefully it brings some long-term future to the Nissan plant and doesn't just become an expensive white elephant when they later announce car production is to end anyway.

    Nissan and EVs at the moment are the brand whose batteries and motors get harvested for classic cars to be converted. They aren't a brand even on the radar for most new converts to electric as their technology is over a decade old.

    Hopefully the new factory allows them to develop a battery which they can fit alongside new motors into something like a Qashqai as they'd sell loads. They can't keep peddling the Leaf which may as well have flintstone-style square wheels its so out of date.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344

    Breaking

    Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland

    Absolutely coincidental that this announced on by Election Day
    I hadn't thought about that but if so good politics
    The BBC also says that
    'The government is contributing to the cost of the expansion, but a precise figure has not been disclosed.'

    Ion other words, a massive handout. Some might call it a bribe.

    I am sorry but investing in the future green economy is essential and is actively promoted by all governments

    I have no objection whatsoever to investing in the green economy, but why be so secretive about it? It's not this Government to keep quiet about what might well be good news.
    How much is Britain providing? £0.5 bn?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    Breaking

    Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland

    Absolutely coincidental that this announced on by Election Day
    I hadn't thought about that but if so good politics
    The BBC also says that
    'The government is contributing to the cost of the expansion, but a precise figure has not been disclosed.'

    Ion other words, a massive handout. Some might call it a bribe.

    I am sorry but investing in the future green economy is essential and is actively promoted by all governments

    All governments recently signed a “level playing field” treaty, but one of the signatories was crossing their fingers behind their back. Guess which one.
    The EU are over and the UK will decide on investments and jobs

    Investment decisions will surely be based on access to markets into which to sell, so the EU is not over. It's just that the relationship and dependency is different.

    The EU dictating UK investment decisions to the UK government is over
    A few years ago, Nissan would be building their factory in Sunderland with EU development money, and the building would be covered in blue blags with gold stars.

    If the U.K. government have put up, let’s just say £350m as a round number, to both create many jobs and secure the site for the coming decades, then it’s money well spent.

    (Yes, this can go too far, as we see in the US with companies not creating jobs and getting disproportionate tax breaks).
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,798

    felix said:

    Mike is right. Labour are value.

    It's a risky one though, unlike C&A which felt like one of those golden tips that seemed right: thank you again, Mike: your tip paid for my day at Wimbledon yesterday among many other things!

    Peak Boris was May 25th. There is a discernible and definite shift now.

    The one thing which might lift the Conservatives back is if England win Euro 2020 in front of a full house at Wembley. Otherwise the tide has turned.

    You may be right but the polling evidence really is not there for such a claim. The government has had a rough week or so and the press is hostile but these kind of things often flare up only to fizzle out again. All we need is a Grauniead - ' the day the polls turned' and we head back to square one.
    What never fizzles out is Tory sleaze. The events of the last week fit into a recognisable pattern going back many decades.

    What the Tories need is a generation of nice people. Good, honest, competent, straightforward, pleasant folk with no “side”. When one looks at the coming generation of young Tories one sees the exact opposite. Tory sleaze is going to be around for at least a half century to come.
    At one time the Tories had a cohort of MP's who were from the squirearchy; didn't need a job but needed an occupation. People who 'did the right thing'. That 'right thing' might not have been so for the factory workers and other city dwellers, but there was a sort of code behind it.
    Those people have, it seems to me, vanished.
    And who has replaced them? Wide boys.
    Social media has had a bad effect on politics and political parties, but it has been particularly deleterious for Conservatives, especially Scottish ones.
    Discuss.

    https://twitter.com/davieclegg/status/1410311779268370437?s=21
  • Can some of the influential tories on here get on to their mates and ask them to sling some of the money into Liverpool? I know it is the independent socialist republic but I think it would, as well as being massively helpful, cause political disruption here. It really is a one party state in all but name with everything that goes with it.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,593

    Breaking

    Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland

    Absolutely coincidental that this announced on by Election Day
    I hadn't thought about that but if so good politics
    The BBC also says that
    'The government is contributing to the cost of the expansion, but a precise figure has not been disclosed.'

    Ion other words, a massive handout. Some might call it a bribe.

    I am sorry but investing in the future green economy is essential and is actively promoted by all governments

    All governments recently signed a “level playing field” treaty, but one of the signatories was crossing their fingers behind their back. Guess which one.
    The EU are over and the UK will decide on investments and jobs

    Investment decisions will surely be based on access to markets into which to sell, so the EU is not over. It's just that the relationship and dependency is different.

    The EU dictating UK investment decisions to the UK government is over

    That never happened, of course. What the EU can do is close its markets to goods and services made by companies subsidised by the UK taxpayer. Hopefully, though, the UK government will not be throwing public money at businesses that then cannot export their goods because of decisions the UK government has made elsewhere.

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    Mike is right. Labour are value.

    It's a risky one though, unlike C&A which felt like one of those golden tips that seemed right: thank you again, Mike: your tip paid for my day at Wimbledon yesterday among many other things!

    Peak Boris was May 25th. There is a discernible and definite shift now.

    The one thing which might lift the Conservatives back is if England win Euro 2020 in front of a full house at Wembley. Otherwise the tide has turned.

    You may be right but the polling evidence really is not there for such a claim. The government has had a rough week or so and the press is hostile but these kind of things often flare up only to fizzle out again. All we need is a Grauniead - ' the day the polls turned' and we head back to square one.
    What never fizzles out is Tory sleaze. The events of the last week fit into a recognisable pattern going back many decades.

    What the Tories need is a generation of nice people. Good, honest, competent, straightforward, pleasant folk with no “side”. When one looks at the coming generation of young Tories one sees the exact opposite. Tory sleaze is going to be around for at least a half century to come.
    No sleaze in the SNP thankfully. Salmond and Sturgeon say Hi..
    Sleaze comes when a party is so long in power that they think that they can get away with anything and still get elected.

    People like @Big_G_NorthWales will vote for a donkey with a blue rosette, and in Scotland will vote SNP until independence. Only after that will Scottish politics return to competitive parties.
    And explain why I voted for Blair at two GE

    And how many labour supporters voted labour with Corbyn

    And I would not vote for any of the donkeys leading the lib dems
    Yeah, you always mither about the Tories but turn out for them. No crime is big enough to stop you, in the last two decades.

    My parents are the same, no way would my mother have voted for a serial adulterer who abandons his his children in the past. The personality cult of Johnson blinds to all faults.
    Or maybe those of us who vote conservative actually believe they are the best choice for the country, not least on Brexit, covid, and the economy and support them because we do not believe the opposition would be an improvement

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,798

    Breaking

    Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland

    Absolutely coincidental that this announced on by Election Day
    I hadn't thought about that but if so good politics
    The BBC also says that
    'The government is contributing to the cost of the expansion, but a precise figure has not been disclosed.'

    Ion other words, a massive handout. Some might call it a bribe.

    I am sorry but investing in the future green economy is essential and is actively promoted by all governments

    All governments recently signed a “level playing field” treaty, but one of the signatories was crossing their fingers behind their back. Guess which one.
    The EU are over and the UK will decide on investments and jobs
    The EU still seems to be having significant influence on UK fishing jobs..
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,314
    For what it's worth, I think the outcome in Batley & Spen is completely unpredictable. There are so many potential cross-currents in the voting patterns that I can't see how anybody can realistically gauge what people will do in the privacy of the voting booth. On that basis, the Labour odds seem good value.

    Additionally, I'm not sure that the announcement of a jobs boost in Sunderland will have any impact on voters in West Yorkshire.
  • Foxy said:

    Tories will win B and S, with a majority smaller than the Galloway vote. Galloway on 10-15% in third place.

    No local knowledge, just gut feeling.

    I think Galloway will be on 5-6 at most. If he isn’t, then maybe he could start to scoop up votes in large sections of the country.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Breaking

    Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland

    Absolutely coincidental that this announced on by Election Day
    I hadn't thought about that but if so good politics
    The BBC also says that
    'The government is contributing to the cost of the expansion, but a precise figure has not been disclosed.'

    Ion other words, a massive handout. Some might call it a bribe.

    I am sorry but investing in the future green economy is essential and is actively promoted by all governments

    I have no objection whatsoever to investing in the green economy, but why be so secretive about it? It's not this Government to keep quiet about what might well be good news.
    How much is Britain providing? £0.5 bn?
    From the report 'tens of millions' not hundreds.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,795

    Good morning

    I commented yesterday that Starmer had a good PMQs and Boris's mumbling was embarrassing

    However, I doubt the voters of B & S tune into PMQs, but I do think the divisive, nasty and down right ugly campaign fought by Galloway may see voters rallying to Kim Leadbeater and I expect Labour to hold the seat, probably with a reduced majority

    However, returning to Boris and his inability to sack wayward colleagues and to make unpopular decisions I believe this is being noticed by conservative mps

    Last Friday, at the height of Boris and Hancock's prevarications I text my local conservative mp (who is also a personal friend) and he was unequivocal in wanting Hancock gone and confirmed he had made his views known to the whips office in no uncertain terms

    When news broke of Hancock's resignation I text the news to him and his one word response says it all 'fantastic'

    There were 80 or more conservative mps who also demanded to the whips that Hancock resigned and Hancock found no support in the cabinet

    Boris seems to have lost his mojo, (whether he has long covid is another matter) and is making unnecessary missteps and I would not be surprised if this was not being noticed across the party and with several replacements waiting in the wings, I would hope the party addresses the issue sooner rather than later

    Remember, the conservatives know how to win and have a system for changing their leaders

    Did your MP friend express a view about wanting Mancock gone last time he broke the ministerial code? Or Patel gone for breaking the ministerial code? Or Johnson gone for repeatedly breaking the ministerial code, having his ministers lie to parliament etc etc?

    Tories can't pull faces at Matt Hancock without applying the same rules to Patel and Johnson and the others. Without being massive hypocrites.
    No idea who Mancock is but the conservatives will act to replace their leader when they consider the time has come
    Don't be coy, you know exactly what I am talking about. You and your MP friend support Cabinet Ministers including Hancock breaking the ministerial code when it suits you. And then turn on the guy when it doesn't.

    He has done nothing that other ministers including himself previously and his boss and the Home Secretary have done. None of them resigned. None of them had calls from you or your MP friend to resign.

    Its called hypocrisy. Double standards.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077

    For what it's worth, I think the outcome in Batley & Spen is completely unpredictable. There are so many potential cross-currents in the voting patterns that I can't see how anybody can realistically gauge what people will do in the privacy of the voting booth. On that basis, the Labour odds seem good value.

    Additionally, I'm not sure that the announcement of a jobs boost in Sunderland will have any impact on voters in West Yorkshire.

    +1 - I doubt Sunderland's news would have impacted Hartlepool where I know some of the protected workers live.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749

    Breaking

    Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland

    This is brilliant news both for sustainability and for the NE of England. Hopefully it brings some long-term future to the Nissan plant and doesn't just become an expensive white elephant when they later announce car production is to end anyway.

    Nissan and EVs at the moment are the brand whose batteries and motors get harvested for classic cars to be converted. They aren't a brand even on the radar for most new converts to electric as their technology is over a decade old.

    Hopefully the new factory allows them to develop a battery which they can fit alongside new motors into something like a Qashqai as they'd sell loads. They can't keep peddling the Leaf which may as well have flintstone-style square wheels its so out of date.
    The BBC were indicating a similar investment may be a announced by Vauxhall on Merseyside
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,795

    Good morning

    I commented yesterday that Starmer had a good PMQs and Boris's mumbling was embarrassing

    However, I doubt the voters of B & S tune into PMQs, but I do think the divisive, nasty and down right ugly campaign fought by Galloway may see voters rallying to Kim Leadbeater and I expect Labour to hold the seat, probably with a reduced majority

    However, returning to Boris and his inability to sack wayward colleagues and to make unpopular decisions I believe this is being noticed by conservative mps

    Last Friday, at the height of Boris and Hancock's prevarications I text my local conservative mp (who is also a personal friend) and he was unequivocal in wanting Hancock gone and confirmed he had made his views known to the whips office in no uncertain terms

    When news broke of Hancock's resignation I text the news to him and his one word response says it all 'fantastic'

    There were 80 or more conservative mps who also demanded to the whips that Hancock resigned and Hancock found no support in the cabinet

    Boris seems to have lost his mojo, (whether he has long covid is another matter) and is making unnecessary missteps and I would not be surprised if this was not being noticed across the party and with several replacements waiting in the wings, I would hope the party addresses the issue sooner rather than later

    Remember, the conservatives know how to win and have a system for changing their leaders

    Did your MP friend express a view about wanting Mancock gone last time he broke the ministerial code? Or Patel gone for breaking the ministerial code? Or Johnson gone for repeatedly breaking the ministerial code, having his ministers lie to parliament etc etc?

    Tories can't pull faces at Matt Hancock without applying the same rules to Patel and Johnson and the others. Without being massive hypocrites.
    Of course you can.

    Its not about "the ministerial code", its about Hancock enforcing laws on the rest of us that he then broke.
    Like Cummings then. Who not only didn't resign or get fired but had a whole phalanx of Tories insisting he did nothing wrong and that it was a Westminster bubble story.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    Breaking

    Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland

    Absolutely coincidental that this announced on by Election Day
    I hadn't thought about that but if so good politics
    The BBC also says that
    'The government is contributing to the cost of the expansion, but a precise figure has not been disclosed.'

    Ion other words, a massive handout. Some might call it a bribe.

    I am sorry but investing in the future green economy is essential and is actively promoted by all governments

    All governments recently signed a “level playing field” treaty, but one of the signatories was crossing their fingers behind their back. Guess which one.
    The EU are over and the UK will decide on investments and jobs

    Investment decisions will surely be based on access to markets into which to sell, so the EU is not over. It's just that the relationship and dependency is different.

    The EU dictating UK investment decisions to the UK government is over

    That never happened, of course. What the EU can do is close its markets to goods and services made by companies subsidised by the UK taxpayer. Hopefully, though, the UK government will not be throwing public money at businesses that then cannot export their goods because of decisions the UK government has made elsewhere.

    So government investment is business projects is bad, except when the EU does it?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895
    So how much of the billion pounds to be invested by Nissan is being paid by taxpayer?

    ‘It would be irresponsible to say’
    Kwasi Kwarteng
    - #r4today

    No it wouldn’t. It would be honest. (Answer seems to be £100m)

    https://twitter.com/paul__johnson/status/1410497318768594944
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749

    Breaking

    Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland

    Absolutely coincidental that this announced on by Election Day
    I hadn't thought about that but if so good politics
    The BBC also says that
    'The government is contributing to the cost of the expansion, but a precise figure has not been disclosed.'

    Ion other words, a massive handout. Some might call it a bribe.

    I am sorry but investing in the future green economy is essential and is actively promoted by all governments

    I have no objection whatsoever to investing in the green economy, but why be so secretive about it? It's not this Government to keep quiet about what might well be good news.
    How much is Britain providing? £0.5 bn?
    Why would they reveal individual commercial agreements when they will be negotiating many similar deals for green jobs and each investment will have its own criteria
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Good morning

    I commented yesterday that Starmer had a good PMQs and Boris's mumbling was embarrassing

    However, I doubt the voters of B & S tune into PMQs, but I do think the divisive, nasty and down right ugly campaign fought by Galloway may see voters rallying to Kim Leadbeater and I expect Labour to hold the seat, probably with a reduced majority

    However, returning to Boris and his inability to sack wayward colleagues and to make unpopular decisions I believe this is being noticed by conservative mps

    Last Friday, at the height of Boris and Hancock's prevarications I text my local conservative mp (who is also a personal friend) and he was unequivocal in wanting Hancock gone and confirmed he had made his views known to the whips office in no uncertain terms

    When news broke of Hancock's resignation I text the news to him and his one word response says it all 'fantastic'

    There were 80 or more conservative mps who also demanded to the whips that Hancock resigned and Hancock found no support in the cabinet

    Boris seems to have lost his mojo, (whether he has long covid is another matter) and is making unnecessary missteps and I would not be surprised if this was not being noticed across the party and with several replacements waiting in the wings, I would hope the party addresses the issue sooner rather than later

    Remember, the conservatives know how to win and have a system for changing their leaders

    Did your MP friend express a view about wanting Mancock gone last time he broke the ministerial code? Or Patel gone for breaking the ministerial code? Or Johnson gone for repeatedly breaking the ministerial code, having his ministers lie to parliament etc etc?

    Tories can't pull faces at Matt Hancock without applying the same rules to Patel and Johnson and the others. Without being massive hypocrites.
    Of course you can.

    Its not about "the ministerial code", its about Hancock enforcing laws on the rest of us that he then broke.
    Like Cummings then. Who not only didn't resign or get fired but had a whole phalanx of Tories insisting he did nothing wrong and that it was a Westminster bubble story.
    I stand by that. It was what the Police said too, no crime committed.

    The fact he was a self-obsessed prick later doesn't change that.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Breaking

    Nissan confirm they are to build a 1 billion pound car battery factory in Sunderland

    Absolutely coincidental that this announced on by Election Day
    I hadn't thought about that but if so good politics
    The BBC also says that
    'The government is contributing to the cost of the expansion, but a precise figure has not been disclosed.'

    Ion other words, a massive handout. Some might call it a bribe.

    I am sorry but investing in the future green economy is essential and is actively promoted by all governments

    I have no objection whatsoever to investing in the green economy, but why be so secretive about it? It's not this Government to keep quiet about what might well be good news.
    How much is Britain providing? £0.5 bn?
    Usually these are structured through tax allowances and rebates vs cash handouts (you sometimes get very small training grants). The example I know best was in the US but the amount there worked out (over ten years) as about $20m to preserve 280 jobs.
This discussion has been closed.