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The first post-Hancock polling sees BoJo’s best PM lead down 7 and the CON poll lead down 4 – politi

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  • Options
    Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760
    edited June 2021

    Andy_JS said:

    The Labour MP for Stockport is not happy with the leaflet in Batley & Spen.

    "Navendu Mishra
    @NavPMishra

    1/2 It saddens me to post this but racism is alive & well within Labour. A hierarchy of racism exists inside the party & some groups are seen as fair game for attacks based on religion/race/heritage.

    More needs to be done when it comes to be being inclusive & welcoming to all.

    2/2 Labour will not win by playing divide and rule politics against our communities.

    We will win based on a principled stance against racism and discrimination of all kinds inside and outside the party.
    2:42 PM · Jun 28, 2021"

    https://twitter.com/NavPMishra/status/1409507546948419587

    Well, it's the celebrated Pyramid of Oppression, isn't it? The metropolitan left either ignores or actively condones the abuse of members of any societal group by another, provided that abuser is viewed as more oppressed than victim. It's their preferred method of resolving any conflict where the rights or interests of two groups, especially where they're both usually causes célèbres, come into conflict.

    Did Corbyn care about the butchery of queers by the Iranian despotism when he took money off them to front their propaganda TV channel? Of course not. Muslims occupy a higher level in the pyramid than gays. QED.
    Indeed. And bottom of all are Jews, even when they are manifestly being discriminated against.

    The rank hypocrisy of some on the Left beggars belief.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,841
    This guy had some good advice for modellers.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Simons_(mathematician)
    We don't start with models. We start with data. We don't have any preconceived notions. We look for things that can be replicated thousands of times.

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    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Bozo is a total arse.

    His attempt to re-write history on Hancock's resignation is risible.

    Lying is to Johnson what shit is to a fly.
    Just to add a note of caution to all those who spend so.much time insulting Boris, most of which is justified, PB Tories inc myself wasted eons of time calling Blair a liar and a lot worse, and he won 3 elections because the opposition was so awful......
    Very true and good points.

    What was the undoing of Blair? Perhaps Iraq. He exited stage left before he got booted out, thus preserving his self-importance.

    Boris Johnson is a lot less self-secure than Tony Blair. With Blair you get the impression he really DOES think he's brilliant whereas with Boris Johnson there's always a gnawing doubt around the edges. I knew someone similar: constantly bending the truth because it shored up their own insecure foundation.

    Johnson may well go on to win another election, perhaps more than one. But I am frequently surprised at the venom he generates, including amongst those who once thought he was Apollo. I've talked to Londoners who say he was an absolutely crap mayor.

    I think Johnson's lustre is starting to fade a LOT faster than Blair's did. That's probably because he is about one hundred times more of a pathological, even sociopathic, liar than Blair. Boris Johnson doesn't simply bend the truth, there is no truth. His inner core is mendacity.
    That, and Blair never had a catastrophe to deal with like Covid. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but the man was very lucky indeed - inherited a strong financial position in 1997, presided over a decade of relative calm and prosperity, and left not long before the GFC that Brown then had to deal with.

    If he'd had to lock everyone up for a year circa 1999, whilst hospitals and care homes all over the country filled up with corpses, then the shine might've come off him a great deal faster than it did as well.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,451
    edited June 2021

    Andy_JS said:

    Fantastic news: Gavin Williamson to institute a mobile phone ban in schools.

    A policy for announcing rather than implementing? Will phone companies be legally required to block calls to and from phones on school premises? They could probably do that.
    So you want to ban teachers from using phones as well?
    Typical right-wing reactionary politics.

    It's like banning quills or fountain pens. Mobile phones are the keys to the future and we need to educate WITH them not AGAINST them. That's very hard for teachers who are a thousand times less tech savvy than the kids they want to control but that's not the kids' fault.
    Ummmm...do you want to know how many children I deal with every day who don’t know how to use apps or reset passwords?

    Because it’s quite a lot...

    In any case, this ban if true is the virtue signalling of the pig ignorant (I.e. the DfE and OFSTED) who are trying to address the symptom, not the problem.

    The problem being a distinct lack of proper tech for students to use because those greedy bastards in London are wasting all the money on themselves.
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited June 2021



    What was the undoing of Blair? Perhaps Iraq. He exited stage left before he got booted out, thus preserving his self-importance.

    Boris Johnson is a lot less self-secure than Tony Blair. With Blair you get the impression he really DOES think he's brilliant whereas with Boris Johnson there's always a gnawing doubt around the edges.

    Of course, everyone is a lot less self-secure than Tony Blair. Even @contrarian.

    Blair's self-belief is indestructible. He still is adamant he was correct over Iraq. There is not a scintilla of doubt there.

    But, it surely can be argued that Boris' psychology is a safer one for a top politician.

    It is better to have some self-doubt, because you are then more ready to back-track, if that is what is needed.

    And sometimes the best course for a politician is a U-turn.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,013
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Sandpit, I'm inclined to agree.

    Thing is, I downloaded, and paid for, some digital music just the other day. Why should I pay twice? Who decides where the money from this tech-toll goes?
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,210

    But, it surely can be argued that Boris' psychology is a safer one for a top politician.

    It is better to have some self-doubt, because you are then more ready to back-track, if that is what is needed.

    And sometimes the best course for a politician is a U-turn.

    If BoZo thought he was wrong and changed course, you might be right.

    What actually happens is BoZo knows he was wrong so changes the story to say he was always right.

    Like the border in the Irish Sea

    "It didn't happen" is a lot worse than "I got it wrong"
  • Options
    philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704

    Bozo is a total arse.

    His attempt to re-write history on Hancock's resignation is risible.

    Lying is to Johnson what shit is to a fly.
    Just to add a note of caution to all those who spend so.much time insulting Boris, most of which is justified, PB Tories inc myself wasted eons of time calling Blair a liar and a lot worse, and he won 3 elections because the opposition was so awful......
    Very true and good points.

    What was the undoing of Blair? Perhaps Iraq. He exited stage left before he got booted out, thus preserving his self-importance.

    Boris Johnson is a lot less self-secure than Tony Blair. With Blair you get the impression he really DOES think he's brilliant whereas with Boris Johnson there's always a gnawing doubt around the edges. I knew someone similar: constantly bending the truth because it shored up their own insecure foundation.

    Johnson may well go on to win another election, perhaps more than one. But I am frequently surprised at the venom he generates, including amongst those who once thought he was Apollo. I've talked to Londoners who say he was an absolutely crap mayor.

    I think Johnson's lustre is starting to fade a LOT faster than Blair's did. That's probably because he is about one hundred times more of a pathological, even sociopathic, liar than Blair. Boris Johnson doesn't simply bend the truth, there is no truth. His inner core is mendacity.
    Where as Blair had the poison of Cambpell and Mandleson to peddle any kind of well rotted manure for him.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,346



    What was the undoing of Blair? Perhaps Iraq. He exited stage left before he got booted out, thus preserving his self-importance.

    Boris Johnson is a lot less self-secure than Tony Blair. With Blair you get the impression he really DOES think he's brilliant whereas with Boris Johnson there's always a gnawing doubt around the edges.

    Of course, everyone is a lot less self-secure than Tony Blair. Even @contrarian.

    Blair's self-belief is indestructible. He still is adamant he was correct over Iraq. There is not a scintilla of doubt there.

    But, it surely can be argued that Boris' psychology is a safer one for a top politician.

    It is better to have some self-doubt, because you are then more ready to back-track, if that is what is needed.

    And sometimes the best course for a politician is a U-turn.
    Indeed,, of course chronology matters too. Johnson apparantly U-turning and sacking Hancock the day AFTER he resigned being a case in point.
  • Options
    Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760
    edited June 2021



    What was the undoing of Blair? Perhaps Iraq. He exited stage left before he got booted out, thus preserving his self-importance.

    Boris Johnson is a lot less self-secure than Tony Blair. With Blair you get the impression he really DOES think he's brilliant whereas with Boris Johnson there's always a gnawing doubt around the edges.

    Of course, everyone is a lot less self-secure than Tony Blair. Even @contrarian.

    Blair's self-belief is indestructible. He still is adamant he was correct over Iraq. There is not a scintilla of doubt there.

    But, it surely can be argued that Boris' psychology is a safer one for a top politician.

    It is better to have some self-doubt, because you are then more ready to back-track, if that is what is needed.

    And sometimes the best course for a politician is a U-turn.
    I agree with all of this. But the problem with Johnson is that he doesn't just have some self-doubt, he's consumed by it.

    You only have to see the way he is blown around by every wind of change.

    To be fair he did have one certain moment after a huge amount of vacillating: Brexit.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    MaxPB said:

    stodge said:

    MaxPB said:


    I don't see what that has got to do with anything and it's ultimately their own personal choice to not go out. I think over time people will have to either learn to live with the risk or choose to live a life in fear.

    People like the above and other zero COVID types do nothing to help the situation with fake statistics about getting severe disease post vaccination don't help the situation.

    We should be better than "choose to live a life in fear".

    If people are frightened, why are they frightened? How do we overcome that fear? What will make people feel safe again? It may not be total eradication of coronavirus - it may be for some, it isn't for me.
    They're frightened because they're being fed a constant diet of fear by zero COVID people and the media signal boosting them. Marr getting a bit of a cold despite his pre-existing conditions and age is a really positive story. He'd probably be on his death bed without the vaccine. Instead he's back to work and has no lasting effects from it. People like Pagel incorrectly saying that 20-30% of people get long COVID is completely irresponsible and feeds the fear of people who are already worried.

    There's an irrationality about catching COVID among a certain section of people who are constantly on the look out for bad news.
    Maybe I am missing something but I have just noticed that the article linked in Pagel's tweet about 20-30% of cases getting long covid literally says research found 1 in 20.

    Would love to see her operational research workings.
    They're frightened because of 15 months of psy-ops., with SAGE saying in spring 2020 'we must raise the fear level'. I have two friends (he's 81, she's 77) who haven't left the house and garden since March 2020 except for a few visits to the doctor or hospital.

    Without the pharma industry suppressing cheap repurposed drugs, it's reasonable to consider that 10,000s of people worldwide would still be alive and after 15 months we might almost have eradicated the virus in developed countries.

    Go to a platform like Bitchute and watch interviews with people like Drs. Kory, Malone, Weinstein, McCullough et al. One of the drugs is being used against 'long COVID' and, er, against vaccine injuries. Bitchute has more information than the better known channels, because tragically Youtube and F'book remove information if it goes against the narrative. It's due to corruption, ahem, so sorry 'regulatory capture'.
    Like dexamethasone?

    I think it is disgraceful that you continue to post this scree of bullshit despite being regularly corrected on here.

    I can only believe you have some ulterior motive
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,146
    The Sun headline:

    Come on Harry.... even Hancock scored!"

    Arf!
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,495
    edited June 2021

    Me: 9.24 pm: "France have clearly got this in the bag and are at no risk whatsoever of going out......"

    I thank you.

    I'm on standby from 5 pm tonight, to perform the same service for England.

    We must all embrace the power of radical pessimism.

    Apparently the German Psychic Elephant (correct prediction rate for the tournament so far: 100%) has backed Germany to win. It's definitely going to go horribly wrong for England, isn't it? Horribly, totally, terribly wrong.
    After yesterday’s brilliant matches, you can feel the pressure starting to rise, in the buildup to the big match for England.

    And the first of the big matches for Germany.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,210
    England have quietly worked their way into the last 10 at the Euros. Impressive.
    https://twitter.com/DavidRoe92/status/1409601649170075650
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,451

    The Sun headline:

    Come on Harry.... even Hancock scored!"

    Arf!

    Come on GB News. Even the Sun can break the occasional news story.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,405
    IanB2 said:

    Me: 9.24 pm: "France have clearly got this in the bag and are at no risk whatsoever of going out......"

    I thank you.

    I'm on standby from 5 pm tonight, to perform the same service for England.

    We must all embrace the power of radical pessimism.

    Apparently the German Psychic Elephant (correct prediction rate for the tournament so far: 100%) has backed Germany to win. It's definitely going to go horribly wrong for England, isn't it? Horribly, totally, terribly wrong.
    After yesterday’s brilliant matches, you can feel the pressure starting to rise, in the buildup to the big match for England.

    And the first of the big matches for Germany.
    England will win.

    Why? Because much as we deride them they are professional footballers playing in the top league on the planet and will step up.

    I have backed them. Albeit at unbelievably puny odds.
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    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,362
    ydoethur said:

    The Sun headline:

    Come on Harry.... even Hancock scored!"

    Arf!

    Come on GB News. Even the Sun can break the occasional news story.
    GB News World Exclusive: "We bought some studio lights!!!!"
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,451

    ydoethur said:

    The Sun headline:

    Come on Harry.... even Hancock scored!"

    Arf!

    Come on GB News. Even the Sun can break the occasional news story.
    GB News World Exclusive: "We bought some studio lights!!!!"
    Other than that, they’re completely in the dark.

    Have a good morning.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,084
    Sandpit said:

    F##k off....first it will be for this, then for the BBC, etc etc etc

    BBC News - Stars call for 'gadget levy' to fund UK creatives
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-57642147

    Lol, a bunch of already-rich actors moaning again. How’s about they make something people want to watch? Plenty of people are making six figures from Youtube and podcasts.

    Alternatively, there’s an organisation already given £4bn of public money every year, that doesn’t have to chase ratings. I wonder if any of these Luvvies, or the hacks writing that piece, have heard of it?
    To be fair, I think there are significant issues with the entertainment industry. Financially, there seems to be an inverted pyramid of wealth, with vast incomes at the top, and very little income for those at the bottom. (In fact it's just like many other industries.)

    In addition, the industry has traditionally treated people like sh*t, with exploitative contracts and worse. Sony have just righted a significant wrong; it would be good if other followed.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/bobbyowsinski/2021/06/13/sony-music-moves-to-pay-royalties-to-artists-that-still-owe-it-money/?sh=63947fd35a63

    ISTR that Bros were left essentially penniless after their success, as it turned out that all the cars and clothes they were given actually came out of their earnings in advance. Also, it took years for other successful artists to get money from their hits. Some delay is understandable as money trickles through the system, but not multiple years.

    You would have expected the Internet to have democratised content creation; it might just have created new ways for the big corps to exploit talent.

    That doesn't mean that the famous people stating this are the right messengers; but there are issues. I'm unsure this proposal does much to address those issues. For one thing, it's just another area where 'administration fees' could soak up vast amounts of the income.

    (IANAE; just my views from the outside)
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,210
    ...
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,495
    Annual house price rise now 13%, says Nationwide.

    Crazy times.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,013
    Mr. Jessop, the same is true of writing. The average of a successful fiction writer is less than £10,000 a year.

    That doesn't mean an arbitrary tax to accumulate funds then dispensed in a not very clear way is a good countermeasure.
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    philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704

    Sandpit said:

    F##k off....first it will be for this, then for the BBC, etc etc etc

    BBC News - Stars call for 'gadget levy' to fund UK creatives
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-57642147

    Lol, a bunch of already-rich actors moaning again. How’s about they make something people want to watch? Plenty of people are making six figures from Youtube and podcasts.

    Alternatively, there’s an organisation already given £4bn of public money every year, that doesn’t have to chase ratings. I wonder if any of these Luvvies, or the hacks writing that piece, have heard of it?
    To be fair, I think there are significant issues with the entertainment industry. Financially, there seems to be an inverted pyramid of wealth, with vast incomes at the top, and very little income for those at the bottom. (In fact it's just like many other industries.)

    In addition, the industry has traditionally treated people like sh*t, with exploitative contracts and worse. Sony have just righted a significant wrong; it would be good if other followed.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/bobbyowsinski/2021/06/13/sony-music-moves-to-pay-royalties-to-artists-that-still-owe-it-money/?sh=63947fd35a63

    ISTR that Bros were left essentially penniless after their success, as it turned out that all the cars and clothes they were given actually came out of their earnings in advance. Also, it took years for other successful artists to get money from their hits. Some delay is understandable as money trickles through the system, but not multiple years.

    You would have expected the Internet to have democratised content creation; it might just have created new ways for the big corps to exploit talent.

    That doesn't mean that the famous people stating this are the right messengers; but there are issues. I'm unsure this proposal does much to address those issues. For one thing, it's just another area where 'administration fees' could soak up vast amounts of the income.

    (IANAE; just my views from the outside)
    They are looking for an easy way to treat the symptoms not addressing the causes of the problem.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,210
    Boris Johnson has tried to claim credit for Matt Hancock’s resignation as health secretary but has been mocked by Dominic Cummings. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dominic-cummings-mocks-boris-johnson-over-claim-he-sacked-matt-hancock-ffpffh8kh?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1624942939
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    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited June 2021



    What was the undoing of Blair? Perhaps Iraq. He exited stage left before he got booted out, thus preserving his self-importance.

    Boris Johnson is a lot less self-secure than Tony Blair. With Blair you get the impression he really DOES think he's brilliant whereas with Boris Johnson there's always a gnawing doubt around the edges.

    Of course, everyone is a lot less self-secure than Tony Blair. Even @contrarian.

    Blair's self-belief is indestructible. He still is adamant he was correct over Iraq. There is not a scintilla of doubt there.

    But, it surely can be argued that Boris' psychology is a safer one for a top politician.

    It is better to have some self-doubt, because you are then more ready to back-track, if that is what is needed.

    And sometimes the best course for a politician is a U-turn.
    I agree with all of this. But the problem with Johnson is that he doesn't just have some self-doubt. I think he's consumed by it.
    No-one consumed with self-doubt would ever end up politics in the first place !

    Some admixture of naked ambition, shittiness and kinky showmanship is necessary in the psychology of a top politician who is going to win lots of elections. Both Blair & Johnson score very highly in these three categories.

    I'd say -- for political survival -- Johnson's gnaws of self-doubt and mild inferiority complex are safer than Blair's boundless supply of indestructible self-confidence.

    There is a ruthless, frightening self-discipline to Blair that Johnson lacks.

    Look at their bodies. We all know Blair has "such a good body and he has really really good legs, butt… and he is slim tall and good skin."

    Johnson's butt is a squidgy and wobbling mound of doughiness. Soft, fat and sticky.

    Yes, that's the rule. To get the measure of a top politician, look at the butt.

    But whatever. Johnson is not up against the trim, lean butt of a Tony Blair.

    He is up against the buttoned-up tight-arse of SKS. He's got the beating of SKS.
  • Options
    IanB2 said:

    Annual house price rise now 13%, says Nationwide.

    Crazy times.

    Loads of for sale boards going up around where I live. I drive past Liverpool’s old training ground and there are loads along that road.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,950

    Sandpit said:

    F##k off....first it will be for this, then for the BBC, etc etc etc

    BBC News - Stars call for 'gadget levy' to fund UK creatives
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-57642147

    Lol, a bunch of already-rich actors moaning again. How’s about they make something people want to watch? Plenty of people are making six figures from Youtube and podcasts.

    Alternatively, there’s an organisation already given £4bn of public money every year, that doesn’t have to chase ratings. I wonder if any of these Luvvies, or the hacks writing that piece, have heard of it?
    To be fair, I think there are significant issues with the entertainment industry. Financially, there seems to be an inverted pyramid of wealth, with vast incomes at the top, and very little income for those at the bottom. (In fact it's just like many other industries.)

    In addition, the industry has traditionally treated people like sh*t, with exploitative contracts and worse. Sony have just righted a significant wrong; it would be good if other followed.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/bobbyowsinski/2021/06/13/sony-music-moves-to-pay-royalties-to-artists-that-still-owe-it-money/?sh=63947fd35a63

    ISTR that Bros were left essentially penniless after their success, as it turned out that all the cars and clothes they were given actually came out of their earnings in advance. Also, it took years for other successful artists to get money from their hits. Some delay is understandable as money trickles through the system, but not multiple years.

    You would have expected the Internet to have democratised content creation; it might just have created new ways for the big corps to exploit talent.

    That doesn't mean that the famous people stating this are the right messengers; but there are issues. I'm unsure this proposal does much to address those issues. For one thing, it's just another area where 'administration fees' could soak up vast amounts of the income.

    (IANAE; just my views from the outside)
    Oh, completely, the music industry in particular is full of exploitative contracts and behaviours, and we all know that Hollywood Accounting ensures that movies don’t make money because that would mean shareholders in the venture getting paid returns.

    This famous article from Courtney Love is 20 years old, and not much has changed really since then, at least not as far as the record companies are concerned.
    https://www.salon.com/2000/06/14/love_7/
    The only way you ever make money as a musician, is by playing live.
  • Options
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    F##k off....first it will be for this, then for the BBC, etc etc etc

    BBC News - Stars call for 'gadget levy' to fund UK creatives
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-57642147

    Lol, a bunch of already-rich actors moaning again. How’s about they make something people want to watch? Plenty of people are making six figures from Youtube and podcasts.

    Alternatively, there’s an organisation already given £4bn of public money every year, that doesn’t have to chase ratings. I wonder if any of these Luvvies, or the hacks writing that piece, have heard of it?
    To be fair, I think there are significant issues with the entertainment industry. Financially, there seems to be an inverted pyramid of wealth, with vast incomes at the top, and very little income for those at the bottom. (In fact it's just like many other industries.)

    In addition, the industry has traditionally treated people like sh*t, with exploitative contracts and worse. Sony have just righted a significant wrong; it would be good if other followed.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/bobbyowsinski/2021/06/13/sony-music-moves-to-pay-royalties-to-artists-that-still-owe-it-money/?sh=63947fd35a63

    ISTR that Bros were left essentially penniless after their success, as it turned out that all the cars and clothes they were given actually came out of their earnings in advance. Also, it took years for other successful artists to get money from their hits. Some delay is understandable as money trickles through the system, but not multiple years.

    You would have expected the Internet to have democratised content creation; it might just have created new ways for the big corps to exploit talent.

    That doesn't mean that the famous people stating this are the right messengers; but there are issues. I'm unsure this proposal does much to address those issues. For one thing, it's just another area where 'administration fees' could soak up vast amounts of the income.

    (IANAE; just my views from the outside)
    Oh, completely, the music industry in particular is full of exploitative contracts and behaviours, and we all know that Hollywood Accounting ensures that movies don’t make money because that would mean shareholders in the venture getting paid returns.

    This famous article from Courtney Love is 20 years old, and not much has changed really since then, at least not as far as the record companies are concerned.
    https://www.salon.com/2000/06/14/love_7/
    The only way you ever make money as a musician, is by playing live.
    The Small Faces were legendarily turned over by their management. Their parents, when they asked where the money had gone, were told they spent it on heroin. AFAIK, they never saw any of their royalties.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,076
    Good morning ladies and gentlemen.

    Anyone else think Murray may well go out next round? He looked as if he really need that break while the roof was closed.
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    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,330

    MaxPB said:

    stodge said:

    MaxPB said:


    I don't see what that has got to do with anything and it's ultimately their own personal choice to not go out. I think over time people will have to either learn to live with the risk or choose to live a life in fear.

    People like the above and other zero COVID types do nothing to help the situation with fake statistics about getting severe disease post vaccination don't help the situation.

    We should be better than "choose to live a life in fear".

    If people are frightened, why are they frightened? How do we overcome that fear? What will make people feel safe again? It may not be total eradication of coronavirus - it may be for some, it isn't for me.
    They're frightened because they're being fed a constant diet of fear by zero COVID people and the media signal boosting them. Marr getting a bit of a cold despite his pre-existing conditions and age is a really positive story. He'd probably be on his death bed without the vaccine. Instead he's back to work and has no lasting effects from it. People like Pagel incorrectly saying that 20-30% of people get long COVID is completely irresponsible and feeds the fear of people who are already worried.

    There's an irrationality about catching COVID among a certain section of people who are constantly on the look out for bad news.
    Maybe I am missing something but I have just noticed that the article linked in Pagel's tweet about 20-30% of cases getting long covid literally says research found 1 in 20.

    Would love to see her operational research workings.
    They're frightened because of 15 months of psy-ops., with SAGE saying in spring 2020 'we must raise the fear level'. I have two friends (he's 81, she's 77) who haven't left the house and garden since March 2020 except for a few visits to the doctor or hospital.

    Without the pharma industry suppressing cheap repurposed drugs, it's reasonable to consider that 10,000s of people worldwide would still be alive and after 15 months we might almost have eradicated the virus in developed countries.

    Go to a platform like Bitchute and watch interviews with people like Drs. Kory, Malone, Weinstein, McCullough et al. One of the drugs is being used against 'long COVID' and, er, against vaccine injuries. Bitchute has more information than the better known channels, because tragically Youtube and F'book remove information if it goes against the narrative. It's due to corruption, ahem, so sorry 'regulatory capture'.
    You’ve been careful not to mention ivermectin directly, perhaps because we have been over this a few times. There is now a study on using ivermectin. Care for a small wager on the outcome, payable to the pb coffers? Say £10? I say ivermectin will be found to have limited or no impact on disease progression. You clearly think it will stop anyone dying. Up for it?
    I suggest you watch multiple interviews with the above doctors first as I have done since mid 2020 and I only bet when I'm not about to fall asleep. Goodnight.
    I’m happy with my position, but you are not happy to front up even £10?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,013
    As an aside, things like Patreon and Subscribestar do offer ways for those who provide entertainment, from music to video gaming to history, to get paid directly (well, nearly) by those who enjoy their work.

    A general tech-toll because some people are unhappy that technology means downloads is just dumb. It's like DRM. The pirates are still going to pirate. But you'll catch and annoy many a law-abiding person who just wants a computer.

    I write online. Been considering buying a laptop as a backup computer. Why the hell should I pay X% more for something because another person in work wholly unrelated to mine is upset that the modern world has downloads? It's ridiculous.
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    IanB2 said:

    Annual house price rise now 13%, says Nationwide.

    Crazy times.

    Loads of for sale boards going up around where I live. I drive past Liverpool’s old training ground and there are loads along that road.
    Just had a look on rightmove. The 3 bedroomed house opposite mine is now going for a significant amount more than I bought my 4 bedroom for under 3 years ago.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,084
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    F##k off....first it will be for this, then for the BBC, etc etc etc

    BBC News - Stars call for 'gadget levy' to fund UK creatives
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-57642147

    Lol, a bunch of already-rich actors moaning again. How’s about they make something people want to watch? Plenty of people are making six figures from Youtube and podcasts.

    Alternatively, there’s an organisation already given £4bn of public money every year, that doesn’t have to chase ratings. I wonder if any of these Luvvies, or the hacks writing that piece, have heard of it?
    To be fair, I think there are significant issues with the entertainment industry. Financially, there seems to be an inverted pyramid of wealth, with vast incomes at the top, and very little income for those at the bottom. (In fact it's just like many other industries.)

    In addition, the industry has traditionally treated people like sh*t, with exploitative contracts and worse. Sony have just righted a significant wrong; it would be good if other followed.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/bobbyowsinski/2021/06/13/sony-music-moves-to-pay-royalties-to-artists-that-still-owe-it-money/?sh=63947fd35a63

    ISTR that Bros were left essentially penniless after their success, as it turned out that all the cars and clothes they were given actually came out of their earnings in advance. Also, it took years for other successful artists to get money from their hits. Some delay is understandable as money trickles through the system, but not multiple years.

    You would have expected the Internet to have democratised content creation; it might just have created new ways for the big corps to exploit talent.

    That doesn't mean that the famous people stating this are the right messengers; but there are issues. I'm unsure this proposal does much to address those issues. For one thing, it's just another area where 'administration fees' could soak up vast amounts of the income.

    (IANAE; just my views from the outside)
    Oh, completely, the music industry in particular is full of exploitative contracts and behaviours, and we all know that Hollywood Accounting ensures that movies don’t make money because that would mean shareholders in the venture getting paid returns.

    This famous article from Courtney Love is 20 years old, and not much has changed really since then, at least not as far as the record companies are concerned.
    https://www.salon.com/2000/06/14/love_7/
    The only way you ever make money as a musician, is by playing live.
    Somewhere I've got an original 1988 copy of 'The Manual: How to have a Number One Hit single the easy way', written by Bill Drummond and Jimmy Cauty. Drummond had been in the industry for a decade as both artist and management, and knew it well. It was quite an eye-opener. It's really dated now, but when I look at the music being produced today, perhaps the fundamentals have not changed even as the technology has.

    A hit is still a hit. The key is how to get that hit 'out' to the audience.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Manual

    Here is an excerpt about Dagenham:
    "The studio is called The Village and it is stuck on an industrial estate in Dagenham between a printers and a carpenter's shop. Whatever we say about Dagenham would do a disservice to the people who live there. As there are no entertaining distractions in the place it inspires hard work. Dagenham seems to breed a variety of dope smoking soul boys addicted to putting highlights in their badly cut hair. The older males have a constant need to be funny and talk about the price of second hand cars. "

    And solicitors:
    "Solicitors. We spoke a little of them earlier on. The quote: "Don't move without first checking with your solicitor is the fastest way of making him a very rich man. But definitely do not go a block without first giving him a call", is true. "

    It's all genius.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,495

    IanB2 said:

    Annual house price rise now 13%, says Nationwide.

    Crazy times.

    Loads of for sale boards going up around where I live. I drive past Liverpool’s old training ground and there are loads along that road.
    Here it's the opposite; properties have dried up, and the estate agents are reduced to displaying properties mostly already sold. I heard last week of a neighbour who sold their house without a viewing; just a phone call.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,950

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    F##k off....first it will be for this, then for the BBC, etc etc etc

    BBC News - Stars call for 'gadget levy' to fund UK creatives
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-57642147

    Lol, a bunch of already-rich actors moaning again. How’s about they make something people want to watch? Plenty of people are making six figures from Youtube and podcasts.

    Alternatively, there’s an organisation already given £4bn of public money every year, that doesn’t have to chase ratings. I wonder if any of these Luvvies, or the hacks writing that piece, have heard of it?
    To be fair, I think there are significant issues with the entertainment industry. Financially, there seems to be an inverted pyramid of wealth, with vast incomes at the top, and very little income for those at the bottom. (In fact it's just like many other industries.)

    In addition, the industry has traditionally treated people like sh*t, with exploitative contracts and worse. Sony have just righted a significant wrong; it would be good if other followed.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/bobbyowsinski/2021/06/13/sony-music-moves-to-pay-royalties-to-artists-that-still-owe-it-money/?sh=63947fd35a63

    ISTR that Bros were left essentially penniless after their success, as it turned out that all the cars and clothes they were given actually came out of their earnings in advance. Also, it took years for other successful artists to get money from their hits. Some delay is understandable as money trickles through the system, but not multiple years.

    You would have expected the Internet to have democratised content creation; it might just have created new ways for the big corps to exploit talent.

    That doesn't mean that the famous people stating this are the right messengers; but there are issues. I'm unsure this proposal does much to address those issues. For one thing, it's just another area where 'administration fees' could soak up vast amounts of the income.

    (IANAE; just my views from the outside)
    Oh, completely, the music industry in particular is full of exploitative contracts and behaviours, and we all know that Hollywood Accounting ensures that movies don’t make money because that would mean shareholders in the venture getting paid returns.

    This famous article from Courtney Love is 20 years old, and not much has changed really since then, at least not as far as the record companies are concerned.
    https://www.salon.com/2000/06/14/love_7/
    The only way you ever make money as a musician, is by playing live.
    The Small Faces were legendarily turned over by their management. Their parents, when they asked where the money had gone, were told they spent it on heroin. AFAIK, they never saw any of their royalties.
    The other thing the record companies do, is the conscierge service. They’ll get you absolutely anything, whenever you want it. What they don’t tell you, until later, is that all the bills go on account to the artist - and the artist has no idea what all the private jets and hotel suites cost. They frequently go completely broke, despite being really quite successful.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,208

    Good morning ladies and gentlemen.

    Anyone else think Murray may well go out next round? He looked as if he really need that break while the roof was closed.

    His opponent in the next round is the winner of this...

    Otte - 4 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 9
    Rinderknech - 6 - 3 - 2 - 7 - 9

    9-9 in the fifth, coming back today.
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    eekeek Posts: 25,028
    Sandpit said:

    F##k off....first it will be for this, then for the BBC, etc etc etc

    BBC News - Stars call for 'gadget levy' to fund UK creatives
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-57642147

    Lol, a bunch of already-rich actors moaning again. How’s about they make something people want to watch? Plenty of people are making six figures from Youtube and podcasts.

    Alternatively, there’s an organisation already given £4bn of public money every year, that doesn’t have to chase ratings. I wonder if any of these Luvvies, or the hacks writing that piece, have heard of it?
    That has been an argument as old as the blank cassette. Outside of France I don't think anyone has ever looked at it and said great idea.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,084
    And totally off-topic, quotes that might appeal (or appal) some on here:

    "Things to watch out for with solicitors. Young ones are often eager and angry men. They were wimps at school and now with all their learning behind them, they are out to show the world what they knew all along. They will hint at the fortunes to be had. They will throw their hands up in horror at the undotted "i's" and uncrossed "t's" in proposed contracts. "Whoever drew up this contract hasn't got a clue!" is a favourite expression. This young, eager, go-getting type might seem to be the one you feel you can relate to in some way. Be warned. He is as likely to lead you into deep water or scare off potential offers. Our advice would be to go with the slightly more mature solicitor. The wiser one. The one who knows how people's hearts and minds work, not just the sub clauses and bottom lines. No matter if he isn't concerned about hearing your track, as long as he will listen to the way you want to do things."

    And accountants:
    "He will recommend you register for VAT. He will tell you to keep your receipts (even those you get when you buy a newspaper or a cup of coffee). Listen and learn. It will make no sense. He will show you petty cash books with empty columns waiting for figures. His world will seem incredibly important to him. To you it will look meaningless and have little to do with the reality of people going into shops in their thousands to buy your record. If you are not willing to accept that his world IS important you could find yourself in five months time, after all the glory of having a Number One single has blown away down the gutter with the MacDonalds wrappers and squashed Diet Coke cans, left owing what seems like the whole world hundreds of thousands of pounds that you never saw in the first place. Judge neither the solicitor or the accountant by the cut of their suits or the decor of their offices and don't be embarrassed by the framed photos of their families that they will have about the place. "
  • Options
    NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,351
    edited June 2021
    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-addenbrookes-hospital-upgraded-covid-staffs-face-masks-and-saw-cases-fall-by-almost-100-12344508

    This story completely vindicates my views on masks. Even when standard issue masks were worn correctly by NHS staff, those caring for Covid patients were 47 times more likley to catch covid then those staff working elsewhere. 47 times!!!!! Clearly there masks offer virtually no protection. When these staff switched to face fitted FFP3 masks, the risk of infection reduced to virtually zero.

    These results clearly demonstrate exactly what I have been saying for over a year. A bit of cloth over your face does nothing to prevent Coivd spread, yet when mask wearing became mandatory people thought they were invincible and stopped social distancing in shops. I stand by my view that mandatory mask wearing has increased Covid infection as the masks people wear do nothing, yet they think they do.



  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    IanB2 said:

    Annual house price rise now 13%, says Nationwide.

    Crazy times.

    There’s too much money around

    Prices for assets in my business are crazy.
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    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,628
    On polling, the last time the Tories were outside the range 40-46 was 29th April; Labour are similarly in the range 30-36. No individual poll changes that, and there isn't a trend of any great strength.

    Two conclusions: Not much to see. The C&A byelection confirms the thought that byelections don't have to have much to do with general polling.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,978
    That they both do it does not make it any better.
    https://twitter.com/sunny_hundal/status/1203295310719733761
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    As an aside, things like Patreon and Subscribestar do offer ways for those who provide entertainment, from music to video gaming to history, to get paid directly (well, nearly) by those who enjoy their work.

    A general tech-toll because some people are unhappy that technology means downloads is just dumb. It's like DRM. The pirates are still going to pirate. But you'll catch and annoy many a law-abiding person who just wants a computer.

    I write online. Been considering buying a laptop as a backup computer. Why the hell should I pay X% more for something because another person in work wholly unrelated to mine is upset that the modern world has downloads? It's ridiculous.

    You’re over thinking it

    It’s just an interest group demanding money for themselves

    Everything else is fluff
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,950

    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-addenbrookes-hospital-upgraded-covid-staffs-face-masks-and-saw-cases-fall-by-almost-100-12344508

    This story completely vindicates my views on masks. Even when standard issue masks were worn correctly by NHS staff, those caring for Covid patients were 47 times more likley to catch covid then those staff working elsewhere. 47 times!!!!! Clearly there masks offer virtually no protection. When these staff switched to face fitted FFP3 masks, the risk of infection reduced to virtually zero.

    These results clearly demonstrate exactly what I have been saying for over a year. A bit of cloth over your face does nothing to prevent Coivd spread, yet when mask wearing became mandatory people thought they were invincible and stopped social distancing in shops. I stand by my view that mandatory mask wearing has increased Covid infection as the masks people wear do nothing, yet they think they do.

    A piece of cloth over your face is better than nothing.

    An N95 mask is better than that.

    An FFP3 mask, properly fitted, is better than the N95. Ask anyone who works in a saw mill, or a car paint shop.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,978
    TimS said:

    That Labour ad is repulsive. Forget the “it’s a photo of one politician” nonsense, it’s naked communalism, not even a dog whistle, exploiting the worst religious bigotries of the subcontinent. Bigotries this country had a big role in entrenching in the run up to partition.

    A grown up political party shouldn’t be coming within a mile of it. What with that and Priti’s African migrant camps were really excelling as a country this week aren’t we.

    Both major parties have been indulging sub-continent communalism for a while now. Look at the Goldsmith campaign against Sadiq Khan in 2016 for a prime example. I agree it's awful and immensely unhealthy.

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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,076
    Sandpit said:

    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-addenbrookes-hospital-upgraded-covid-staffs-face-masks-and-saw-cases-fall-by-almost-100-12344508

    This story completely vindicates my views on masks. Even when standard issue masks were worn correctly by NHS staff, those caring for Covid patients were 47 times more likley to catch covid then those staff working elsewhere. 47 times!!!!! Clearly there masks offer virtually no protection. When these staff switched to face fitted FFP3 masks, the risk of infection reduced to virtually zero.

    These results clearly demonstrate exactly what I have been saying for over a year. A bit of cloth over your face does nothing to prevent Coivd spread, yet when mask wearing became mandatory people thought they were invincible and stopped social distancing in shops. I stand by my view that mandatory mask wearing has increased Covid infection as the masks people wear do nothing, yet they think they do.

    A piece of cloth over your face is better than nothing.

    An N95 mask is better than that.

    An FFP3 mask, properly fitted, is better than the N95. Ask anyone who works in a saw mill, or a car paint shop.
    Forgot mine, yesterday, when doing a bit of shopping. Got severely bounced about by the assistant. Firm son-in-law works for sell the FFP3 masks; they gave him a dozen when this all started and he passed us a couple each. can't use the same one for ever, though, of course.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,013
    Mr. Charles, aye, but there are many credulous people who will go along with such nonsense.
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    NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,351
    Sandpit said:

    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-addenbrookes-hospital-upgraded-covid-staffs-face-masks-and-saw-cases-fall-by-almost-100-12344508

    This story completely vindicates my views on masks. Even when standard issue masks were worn correctly by NHS staff, those caring for Covid patients were 47 times more likley to catch covid then those staff working elsewhere. 47 times!!!!! Clearly there masks offer virtually no protection. When these staff switched to face fitted FFP3 masks, the risk of infection reduced to virtually zero.

    These results clearly demonstrate exactly what I have been saying for over a year. A bit of cloth over your face does nothing to prevent Coivd spread, yet when mask wearing became mandatory people thought they were invincible and stopped social distancing in shops. I stand by my view that mandatory mask wearing has increased Covid infection as the masks people wear do nothing, yet they think they do.

    A piece of cloth over your face is better than nothing.

    An N95 mask is better than that.

    An FFP3 mask, properly fitted, is better than the N95. Ask anyone who works in a saw mill, or a car paint shop.
    Its not better than nothing if you stop social distancing and thats what happened. Read the report , 47 times more likely to catch Covid wearing a N95 mask.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,978
    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson has tried to claim credit for Matt Hancock’s resignation as health secretary but has been mocked by Dominic Cummings. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dominic-cummings-mocks-boris-johnson-over-claim-he-sacked-matt-hancock-ffpffh8kh?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1624942939

    A nimble opposition would destroy Johnson on this. It's such a laughable lie and sums up what he is perfectly. Unfortunately, such an opposition does not exist!

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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,076

    TimS said:

    That Labour ad is repulsive. Forget the “it’s a photo of one politician” nonsense, it’s naked communalism, not even a dog whistle, exploiting the worst religious bigotries of the subcontinent. Bigotries this country had a big role in entrenching in the run up to partition.

    A grown up political party shouldn’t be coming within a mile of it. What with that and Priti’s African migrant camps were really excelling as a country this week aren’t we.

    Both major parties have been indulging sub-continent communalism for a while now. Look at the Goldsmith campaign against Sadiq Khan in 2016 for a prime example. I agree it's awful and immensely unhealthy.

    Think too, of the effect on a refugee of escaping a criminal African regime, getting to Britain, and then being flown back to a neighbouring country to be 'processed'!
    Terrifying.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    That they both do it does not make it any better.
    https://twitter.com/sunny_hundal/status/1203295310719733761

    There’s a difference between an official Labour leaflet and a fringe campaign that isn’t affiliated
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Sandpit said:

    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-addenbrookes-hospital-upgraded-covid-staffs-face-masks-and-saw-cases-fall-by-almost-100-12344508

    This story completely vindicates my views on masks. Even when standard issue masks were worn correctly by NHS staff, those caring for Covid patients were 47 times more likley to catch covid then those staff working elsewhere. 47 times!!!!! Clearly there masks offer virtually no protection. When these staff switched to face fitted FFP3 masks, the risk of infection reduced to virtually zero.

    These results clearly demonstrate exactly what I have been saying for over a year. A bit of cloth over your face does nothing to prevent Coivd spread, yet when mask wearing became mandatory people thought they were invincible and stopped social distancing in shops. I stand by my view that mandatory mask wearing has increased Covid infection as the masks people wear do nothing, yet they think they do.

    A piece of cloth over your face is better than nothing.

    An N95 mask is better than that.

    An FFP3 mask, properly fitted, is better than the N95. Ask anyone who works in a saw mill, or a car paint shop.
    Its not better than nothing if you stop social distancing and thats what happened. Read the report , 47 times more likely to catch Covid wearing a N95 mask.
    How many more interactions with COVID carriers did they have?
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,076

    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson has tried to claim credit for Matt Hancock’s resignation as health secretary but has been mocked by Dominic Cummings. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dominic-cummings-mocks-boris-johnson-over-claim-he-sacked-matt-hancock-ffpffh8kh?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1624942939

    A nimble opposition would destroy Johnson on this. It's such a laughable lie and sums up what he is perfectly. Unfortunately, such an opposition does not exist!

    It is to be hoped that something suitable is said at PMQ's. Need a bit of careful drafting to avoid Johnson making a joke of it, though.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,978
    Charles said:

    That they both do it does not make it any better.
    https://twitter.com/sunny_hundal/status/1203295310719733761

    There’s a difference between an official Labour leaflet and a fringe campaign that isn’t affiliated

    Now do James Goldsmith against Sadiq Khan.

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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Sandpit said:

    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-addenbrookes-hospital-upgraded-covid-staffs-face-masks-and-saw-cases-fall-by-almost-100-12344508

    This story completely vindicates my views on masks. Even when standard issue masks were worn correctly by NHS staff, those caring for Covid patients were 47 times more likley to catch covid then those staff working elsewhere. 47 times!!!!! Clearly there masks offer virtually no protection. When these staff switched to face fitted FFP3 masks, the risk of infection reduced to virtually zero.

    These results clearly demonstrate exactly what I have been saying for over a year. A bit of cloth over your face does nothing to prevent Coivd spread, yet when mask wearing became mandatory people thought they were invincible and stopped social distancing in shops. I stand by my view that mandatory mask wearing has increased Covid infection as the masks people wear do nothing, yet they think they do.

    A piece of cloth over your face is better than nothing.

    An N95 mask is better than that.

    An FFP3 mask, properly fitted, is better than the N95. Ask anyone who works in a saw mill, or a car paint shop.
    Its not better than nothing if you stop social distancing and thats what happened. Read the report , 47 times more likely to catch Covid wearing a N95 mask.
    What caused the staff working on a Covid ward while wearing an N95 mask to be 47 times more likely to catch Covid? The fact they were wearing a mask? Or the fact they were working on a Covid ward? 🤔

    It could be that working on a Covid ward without a mask makes you 200 times more likely to catch Covid, in which case wearing the N95 mask reduced risk by 75% even if it still leaves you much more likely to catch Covid if you're working on a Covid ward than if you aren't.
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    NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,311

    Bozo is a total arse.

    His attempt to re-write history on Hancock's resignation is risible.

    Lying is to Johnson what shit is to a fly.
    Just to add a note of caution to all those who spend so.much time insulting Boris, most of which is justified, PB Tories inc myself wasted eons of time calling Blair a liar and a lot worse, and he won 3 elections because the opposition was so awful......
    Very true and good points.

    What was the undoing of Blair? Perhaps Iraq. He exited stage left before he got booted out, thus preserving his self-importance.

    Boris Johnson is a lot less self-secure than Tony Blair. With Blair you get the impression he really DOES think he's brilliant whereas with Boris Johnson there's always a gnawing doubt around the edges. I knew someone similar: constantly bending the truth because it shored up their own insecure foundation.

    Johnson may well go on to win another election, perhaps more than one. But I am frequently surprised at the venom he generates, including amongst those who once thought he was Apollo. I've talked to Londoners who say he was an absolutely crap mayor.

    I think Johnson's lustre is starting to fade a LOT faster than Blair's did. That's probably because he is about one hundred times more of a pathological, even sociopathic, liar than Blair. Boris Johnson doesn't simply bend the truth, there is no truth. His inner core is mendacity.
    That, and Blair never had a catastrophe to deal with like Covid. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but the man was very lucky indeed - inherited a strong financial position in 1997, presided over a decade of relative calm and prosperity, and left not long before the GFC that Brown then had to deal with.

    If he'd had to lock everyone up for a year circa 1999, whilst hospitals and care homes all over the country filled up with corpses, then the shine might've come off him a great deal faster than it did as well.
    The thing with Boris lying is that it plays in to his bumbling demeanor. He only ever seems to have a loose grasp of the facts, so if he gets something wrong is he lying? Anyone who has watched a spy drama knows that one way to beat a lie detector is to think you are telling the truth.

    This also plays into the ABC CDE split. Lawyerly types like like Starmer appeal more to ABC types because it is important in their lives that you formulate your words carefully and stand by what you say. But those less educated have to rely judgement and can smell the BS a mile off. Take the fence sitting ambiguous Brexit position Labour took in the last parliament. They were very careful to use precisely the words that could be used by both sides to hope - but eventually the fence collapsed beneath them. Is that lying any different to Boris saying that he wouldn't have a border up the Irish sea?
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,741
    How the feck has it taken until now for the powers that be to figure out that an FFP3 mask offers the wearer greater protection than a surgical mask?

    How many NHS staff have been needlessly infected as a result of inadequate PPE?
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    That they both do it does not make it any better.
    https://twitter.com/sunny_hundal/status/1203295310719733761

    There’s a difference between an official Labour leaflet and a fringe campaign that isn’t affiliated

    Now do James Goldsmith against Sadiq Khan.

    Zac?

    I didn’t pay attention to that campaign as I was never going to vote for either of them
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,978

    Bozo is a total arse.

    His attempt to re-write history on Hancock's resignation is risible.

    Lying is to Johnson what shit is to a fly.
    Just to add a note of caution to all those who spend so.much time insulting Boris, most of which is justified, PB Tories inc myself wasted eons of time calling Blair a liar and a lot worse, and he won 3 elections because the opposition was so awful......
    Very true and good points.

    What was the undoing of Blair? Perhaps Iraq. He exited stage left before he got booted out, thus preserving his self-importance.

    Boris Johnson is a lot less self-secure than Tony Blair. With Blair you get the impression he really DOES think he's brilliant whereas with Boris Johnson there's always a gnawing doubt around the edges. I knew someone similar: constantly bending the truth because it shored up their own insecure foundation.

    Johnson may well go on to win another election, perhaps more than one. But I am frequently surprised at the venom he generates, including amongst those who once thought he was Apollo. I've talked to Londoners who say he was an absolutely crap mayor.

    I think Johnson's lustre is starting to fade a LOT faster than Blair's did. That's probably because he is about one hundred times more of a pathological, even sociopathic, liar than Blair. Boris Johnson doesn't simply bend the truth, there is no truth. His inner core is mendacity.
    That, and Blair never had a catastrophe to deal with like Covid. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but the man was very lucky indeed - inherited a strong financial position in 1997, presided over a decade of relative calm and prosperity, and left not long before the GFC that Brown then had to deal with.

    If he'd had to lock everyone up for a year circa 1999, whilst hospitals and care homes all over the country filled up with corpses, then the shine might've come off him a great deal faster than it did as well.
    The thing with Boris lying is that it plays in to his bumbling demeanor. He only ever seems to have a loose grasp of the facts, so if he gets something wrong is he lying? Anyone who has watched a spy drama knows that one way to beat a lie detector is to think you are telling the truth.

    This also plays into the ABC CDE split. Lawyerly types like like Starmer appeal more to ABC types because it is important in their lives that you formulate your words carefully and stand by what you say. But those less educated have to rely judgement and can smell the BS a mile off. Take the fence sitting ambiguous Brexit position Labour took in the last parliament. They were very careful to use precisely the words that could be used by both sides to hope - but eventually the fence collapsed beneath them. Is that lying any different to Boris saying that he wouldn't have a border up the Irish sea?

    The thing about Johnson's sacking Hancock lie is that it does not pass any sniff test. It is just laughable. He is very lucky not to be facing a LOTO who has the ability to make hay with such a thing.

  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    TimS said:

    That Labour ad is repulsive. Forget the “it’s a photo of one politician” nonsense, it’s naked communalism, not even a dog whistle, exploiting the worst religious bigotries of the subcontinent. Bigotries this country had a big role in entrenching in the run up to partition.

    A grown up political party shouldn’t be coming within a mile of it. What with that and Priti’s African migrant camps were really excelling as a country this week aren’t we.

    Both major parties have been indulging sub-continent communalism for a while now. Look at the Goldsmith campaign against Sadiq Khan in 2016 for a prime example. I agree it's awful and immensely unhealthy.

    Think too, of the effect on a refugee of escaping a criminal African regime, getting to Britain, and then being flown back to a neighbouring country to be 'processed'!
    Terrifying.
    Maybe they shouldn't travel through many safe countries to reach Britain, on a path that is deadly, dangerous, illegal and fuelling criminals then?

    Which African regime do we border? France?
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,442
    Charles said:

    IanB2 said:

    Annual house price rise now 13%, says Nationwide.

    Crazy times.

    There’s too much money around

    Prices for assets in my business are crazy.
    The way we have been printing money is "brave" as Jim Hacker's assistant would say.
  • Options
    NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,351
    edited June 2021
    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-addenbrookes-hospital-upgraded-covid-staffs-face-masks-and-saw-cases-fall-by-almost-100-12344508

    This story completely vindicates my views on masks. Even when standard issue masks were worn correctly by NHS staff, those caring for Covid patients were 47 times more likley to catch covid then those staff working elsewhere. 47 times!!!!! Clearly there masks offer virtually no protection. When these staff switched to face fitted FFP3 masks, the risk of infection reduced to virtually zero.

    These results clearly demonstrate exactly what I have been saying for over a year. A bit of cloth over your face does nothing to prevent Coivd spread, yet when mask wearing became mandatory people thought they were invincible and stopped social distancing in shops. I stand by my view that mandatory mask wearing has increased Covid infection as the masks people wear do nothing, yet they think they do.

    A piece of cloth over your face is better than nothing.

    An N95 mask is better than that.

    An FFP3 mask, properly fitted, is better than the N95. Ask anyone who works in a saw mill, or a car paint shop.
    Its not better than nothing if you stop social distancing and thats what happened. Read the report , 47 times more likely to catch Covid wearing a N95 mask.
    How many more interactions with COVID carriers did they have?
    Obviously loads, but the mask is supposed to be PPE, and if you are 47 times more likely to catch Covid wearing it than if you were not working in that area, it clearly does not offer any protection.

    I have always looked at this from the dust standpoint.

    I have done facefitting training and have worn a FFP3 mask correctly whilst working in a very dusty environment.

    A normal cheap dust mask is hopeless in comparison to a face fitted FFP3 mask.

    When mask wearing became mandatory people genuinely believed they offered protection and as this report demonstrates they simply don't.

    I do risk assessments daily and if I recommended a PPE product that still meant you were 47 times more likely to be affected by the risk than someone not carrying out the work then I would be laughed at. That is what has happened here.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,978
    Any rise in interest rates has the potential to change the political landscape very, very quickly. The government will be hoping that current inflationary pressures are a blip. If they're not, there could be real trouble ahead.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,950

    TimS said:

    That Labour ad is repulsive. Forget the “it’s a photo of one politician” nonsense, it’s naked communalism, not even a dog whistle, exploiting the worst religious bigotries of the subcontinent. Bigotries this country had a big role in entrenching in the run up to partition.

    A grown up political party shouldn’t be coming within a mile of it. What with that and Priti’s African migrant camps were really excelling as a country this week aren’t we.

    Both major parties have been indulging sub-continent communalism for a while now. Look at the Goldsmith campaign against Sadiq Khan in 2016 for a prime example. I agree it's awful and immensely unhealthy.

    Think too, of the effect on a refugee of escaping a criminal African regime, getting to Britain, and then being flown back to a neighbouring country to be 'processed'!
    Terrifying.
    The vast majority of those arriving in boats, have come from France.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956
    Charles said:

    IanB2 said:

    Annual house price rise now 13%, says Nationwide.

    Crazy times.

    There’s too much money around

    Prices for assets in my business are crazy.
    Ditto....
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-addenbrookes-hospital-upgraded-covid-staffs-face-masks-and-saw-cases-fall-by-almost-100-12344508

    This story completely vindicates my views on masks. Even when standard issue masks were worn correctly by NHS staff, those caring for Covid patients were 47 times more likley to catch covid then those staff working elsewhere. 47 times!!!!! Clearly there masks offer virtually no protection. When these staff switched to face fitted FFP3 masks, the risk of infection reduced to virtually zero.

    These results clearly demonstrate exactly what I have been saying for over a year. A bit of cloth over your face does nothing to prevent Coivd spread, yet when mask wearing became mandatory people thought they were invincible and stopped social distancing in shops. I stand by my view that mandatory mask wearing has increased Covid infection as the masks people wear do nothing, yet they think they do.

    A piece of cloth over your face is better than nothing.

    An N95 mask is better than that.

    An FFP3 mask, properly fitted, is better than the N95. Ask anyone who works in a saw mill, or a car paint shop.
    Its not better than nothing if you stop social distancing and thats what happened. Read the report , 47 times more likely to catch Covid wearing a N95 mask.
    How many more interactions with COVID carriers did they have?
    Obviously loads, but the mask is supposed to be PPE, and if you are 47 times more likely to catch Covid wearing it than if you were not working in that area, it clearly does not offer any protection.

    I have always looked at this from the dust standpoint.

    I have done facefitting training and have worn a FFP3 mask correctly whilst working in a very dusty environment.

    A normal cheap dust mask is hopeless in comparison to a face fitted FFP3 mask.

    When mask wearing became mandatory people genuinely believed they offered protection and as this report demonstrates they simply don't.

    I do risk assessments daily and if I recommended a PPE product that still meant you were 47 times more likely to be affected by the risk than someone not carrying out the work then I would be laughed at. That is what has happened here.
    Your post is statistically inept
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,208

    Any rise in interest rates has the potential to change the political landscape very, very quickly. The government will be hoping that current inflationary pressures are a blip. If they're not, there could be real trouble ahead.

    Let's be honest, the day of reckoning regarding interest rates has been coming for many years. I think it will take a lot before the BoE acts, so I think we will have to wait just a little longer. But when the day comes, it is going to be carnage.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,293
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    That they both do it does not make it any better.
    https://twitter.com/sunny_hundal/status/1203295310719733761

    There’s a difference between an official Labour leaflet and a fringe campaign that isn’t affiliated

    Now do James Goldsmith against Sadiq Khan.

    Zac?

    I didn’t pay attention to that campaign as I was never going to vote for either of them
    Who will you be voting for in Leicester and B&S?
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,442
    Telegraph's sci editor looks at the overall picture wrt to cases and hospitals.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/06/28/remorseless-build-up-covid-hospital-patients-simply-hasnt-happened/

    "Over the past few months, Mr Johnson and government scientists have been at pains to warn the public that infections and hospitalisations will inevitably rise once more restrictions are lifted, but that we must eventually learn to live with the virus.

    It is now time they took their own advice."
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,146

    How the feck has it taken until now for the powers that be to figure out that an FFP3 mask offers the wearer greater protection than a surgical mask?

    How many NHS staff have been needlessly infected as a result of inadequate PPE?

    Hunt could have organised a stockpile of 25 million of them. When there was no price-gouging, supply-constraining pandemic going on.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    The main point of face coverings is to prevent transmission outward from the wearer and also to increase confidence in the general public to head to the shops.
    Chance of it stopping you err... catching it pretty much nil.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,040



    ISTR that Bros were left essentially penniless after their success, as it turned out that all the cars and clothes they were given actually came out of their earnings in advance. Also, it took years for other successful artists to get money from their hits. Some delay is understandable as money trickles through the system, but not multiple years.

    Search "Left Eye Breaks It Down" on YouTube for Lisa Lopes' 90 second explanation of how earnings work in the music business.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    That they both do it does not make it any better.
    https://twitter.com/sunny_hundal/status/1203295310719733761

    There’s a difference between an official Labour leaflet and a fringe campaign that isn’t affiliated

    Now do James Goldsmith against Sadiq Khan.

    Zac?

    I didn’t pay attention to that campaign as I was never going to vote for either of them
    Who will you be voting for in Leicester and B&S?
    I’ve commented on the occasional post on here but apart from that almost zero
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,628
    edited June 2021

    Bozo is a total arse.

    His attempt to re-write history on Hancock's resignation is risible.

    Lying is to Johnson what shit is to a fly.
    Just to add a note of caution to all those who spend so.much time insulting Boris, most of which is justified, PB Tories inc myself wasted eons of time calling Blair a liar and a lot worse, and he won 3 elections because the opposition was so awful......
    Very true and good points.

    What was the undoing of Blair? Perhaps Iraq. He exited stage left before he got booted out, thus preserving his self-importance.

    Boris Johnson is a lot less self-secure than Tony Blair. With Blair you get the impression he really DOES think he's brilliant whereas with Boris Johnson there's always a gnawing doubt around the edges. I knew someone similar: constantly bending the truth because it shored up their own insecure foundation.

    Johnson may well go on to win another election, perhaps more than one. But I am frequently surprised at the venom he generates, including amongst those who once thought he was Apollo. I've talked to Londoners who say he was an absolutely crap mayor.

    I think Johnson's lustre is starting to fade a LOT faster than Blair's did. That's probably because he is about one hundred times more of a pathological, even sociopathic, liar than Blair. Boris Johnson doesn't simply bend the truth, there is no truth. His inner core is mendacity.
    That, and Blair never had a catastrophe to deal with like Covid. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but the man was very lucky indeed - inherited a strong financial position in 1997, presided over a decade of relative calm and prosperity, and left not long before the GFC that Brown then had to deal with.

    If he'd had to lock everyone up for a year circa 1999, whilst hospitals and care homes all over the country filled up with corpses, then the shine might've come off him a great deal faster than it did as well.
    The thing with Boris lying is that it plays in to his bumbling demeanor. He only ever seems to have a loose grasp of the facts, so if he gets something wrong is he lying? Anyone who has watched a spy drama knows that one way to beat a lie detector is to think you are telling the truth.

    This also plays into the ABC CDE split. Lawyerly types like like Starmer appeal more to ABC types because it is important in their lives that you formulate your words carefully and stand by what you say. But those less educated have to rely judgement and can smell the BS a mile off. Take the fence sitting ambiguous Brexit position Labour took in the last parliament. They were very careful to use precisely the words that could be used by both sides to hope - but eventually the fence collapsed beneath them. Is that lying any different to Boris saying that he wouldn't have a border up the Irish sea?
    This is right. What counts as 'truth' and 'lies' is hugely socially conditioned. In some respects it is about words and small print, for most it is about overall coherence of approach. There is no agreed standard, certainly in politics. Successful politicians have to be able to do both, to appeal to Hartlepool WWC and to be cope with a post covid public enquiry. Blair (until he couldn't) and Boris (thus far) are supreme exemplars.

    But when Boris's approach works no longer, there won't be much of him left.

  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,978
    If immigrants cause high house prices, why is it that house prices have gone up so much when immigration has been so low over the last 18 months?
  • Options
    NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,351
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-addenbrookes-hospital-upgraded-covid-staffs-face-masks-and-saw-cases-fall-by-almost-100-12344508

    This story completely vindicates my views on masks. Even when standard issue masks were worn correctly by NHS staff, those caring for Covid patients were 47 times more likley to catch covid then those staff working elsewhere. 47 times!!!!! Clearly there masks offer virtually no protection. When these staff switched to face fitted FFP3 masks, the risk of infection reduced to virtually zero.

    These results clearly demonstrate exactly what I have been saying for over a year. A bit of cloth over your face does nothing to prevent Coivd spread, yet when mask wearing became mandatory people thought they were invincible and stopped social distancing in shops. I stand by my view that mandatory mask wearing has increased Covid infection as the masks people wear do nothing, yet they think they do.

    A piece of cloth over your face is better than nothing.

    An N95 mask is better than that.

    An FFP3 mask, properly fitted, is better than the N95. Ask anyone who works in a saw mill, or a car paint shop.
    Its not better than nothing if you stop social distancing and thats what happened. Read the report , 47 times more likely to catch Covid wearing a N95 mask.
    How many more interactions with COVID carriers did they have?
    Obviously loads, but the mask is supposed to be PPE, and if you are 47 times more likely to catch Covid wearing it than if you were not working in that area, it clearly does not offer any protection.

    I have always looked at this from the dust standpoint.

    I have done facefitting training and have worn a FFP3 mask correctly whilst working in a very dusty environment.

    A normal cheap dust mask is hopeless in comparison to a face fitted FFP3 mask.

    When mask wearing became mandatory people genuinely believed they offered protection and as this report demonstrates they simply don't.

    I do risk assessments daily and if I recommended a PPE product that still meant you were 47 times more likely to be affected by the risk than someone not carrying out the work then I would be laughed at. That is what has happened here.
    Your post is statistically inept
    Why? When you complete a risk assessment it is to determine the action to take to reduce the risk.

    The way the HSE want you to do this is to remove the issue, i.e. for dust ensure that you work in a ventilated area there by reducing the requirement for a dust mask.

    Clearly whilst working on a Covid ward you cannot get rid of the risk of Covid, therefore suitable PPE would have to worn to offer protection. The PPE that was used still meant that you were 47 times more likely to catch Covid than someone not working on the ward. Therefore the protection offered to the user is neglible and the risk to them has not been mitigated at all.
  • Options
    GnudGnud Posts: 298
    edited June 2021
    Pulpstar said:

    The main point of face coverings is to prevent transmission outward from the wearer and also to increase confidence in the general public to head to the shops.
    Chance of it stopping you err... catching it pretty much nil.

    That's true about cloth masks, which are similar to clothes with graffiti tags on them for identifying people to avoid standing close to, and which are essentially the same as wearing a scarf around your face as many "non-graduates" do in my local Tesco's, often covering their mouths only. But it's not true of standard surgical, N95 (FFP2), or N99 (FFP3) masks, which all give the wearer a degree of protection - and not just against bacteria but also against viruses.

    If ministers and politicans wore proper masks rather than symbolic-only cloth ones (sometimes further taking the piss by wearing ones with national flags or symbols on), that would be a step forward.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,741
    Pulpstar said:

    The main point of face coverings is to prevent transmission outward from the wearer and also to increase confidence in the general public to head to the shops.
    Chance of it stopping you err... catching it pretty much nil.

    For the public, yes. For NHS staff on Covid wards, no. The staff need masks that protect them, not the Covid positive patients.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,208

    If immigrants cause high house prices, why is it that house prices have gone up so much when immigration has been so low over the last 18 months?

    Do you know, I'd have voted Remain in 2016 if we'd been given a guarantee of getting interest rates to 3% by the end of 2018.
  • Options
    oggologioggologi Posts: 29

    Bozo is a total arse.

    His attempt to re-write history on Hancock's resignation is risible.

    Lying is to Johnson what shit is to a fly.
    Just to add a note of caution to all those who spend so.much time insulting Boris, most of which is justified, PB Tories inc myself wasted eons of time calling Blair a liar and a lot worse, and he won 3 elections because the opposition was so awful......
    Very true and good points.

    What was the undoing of Blair? Perhaps Iraq. He exited stage left before he got booted out, thus preserving his self-importance.

    Boris Johnson is a lot less self-secure than Tony Blair. With Blair you get the impression he really DOES think he's brilliant whereas with Boris Johnson there's always a gnawing doubt around the edges. I knew someone similar: constantly bending the truth because it shored up their own insecure foundation.

    Johnson may well go on to win another election, perhaps more than one. But I am frequently surprised at the venom he generates, including amongst those who once thought he was Apollo. I've talked to Londoners who say he was an absolutely crap mayor.

    I think Johnson's lustre is starting to fade a LOT faster than Blair's did. That's probably because he is about one hundred times more of a pathological, even sociopathic, liar than Blair. Boris Johnson doesn't simply bend the truth, there is no truth. His inner core is mendacity.
    That, and Blair never had a catastrophe to deal with like Covid. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but the man was very lucky indeed - inherited a strong financial position in 1997, presided over a decade of relative calm and prosperity, and left not long before the GFC that Brown then had to deal with.

    If he'd had to lock everyone up for a year circa 1999, whilst hospitals and care homes all over the country filled up with corpses, then the shine might've come off him a great deal faster than it did as well.
    The finances for the country were poor in 1997. Ken Clarke even said so. There was no money.
    When SARS broke out in the early 2000s and the Government thought this could have been big, the Blair Government were planning ahead for a pandemic and kitting out hospitals for what could happen. Thankfully it didn't happen but they thought it was going to and so planned ahead. I am sure if something like COViD had happened the Blair Government would have dealt with it far far better than our current one. Thatcher would have dealt with it better too.
  • Options
    state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,422

    If immigrants cause high house prices, why is it that house prices have gone up so much when immigration has been so low over the last 18 months?

    Well its not that simple either way is it ? A lot of factors cause house price rises - stamp duty relief is probably the main short term driver , immigration is a factor longer term of course as is smaller household units, planning restrictions etc etc
  • Options
    FishingFishing Posts: 4,561
    tlg86 said:

    Any rise in interest rates has the potential to change the political landscape very, very quickly. The government will be hoping that current inflationary pressures are a blip. If they're not, there could be real trouble ahead.

    Let's be honest, the day of reckoning regarding interest rates has been coming for many years. I think it will take a lot before the BoE acts, so I think we will have to wait just a little longer. But when the day comes, it is going to be carnage.
    Japan?
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,020
    IanB2 said:

    Annual house price rise now 13%, says Nationwide.

    Crazy times.

    Will this lead to higher inflation?
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,076

    TimS said:

    That Labour ad is repulsive. Forget the “it’s a photo of one politician” nonsense, it’s naked communalism, not even a dog whistle, exploiting the worst religious bigotries of the subcontinent. Bigotries this country had a big role in entrenching in the run up to partition.

    A grown up political party shouldn’t be coming within a mile of it. What with that and Priti’s African migrant camps were really excelling as a country this week aren’t we.

    Both major parties have been indulging sub-continent communalism for a while now. Look at the Goldsmith campaign against Sadiq Khan in 2016 for a prime example. I agree it's awful and immensely unhealthy.

    Think too, of the effect on a refugee of escaping a criminal African regime, getting to Britain, and then being flown back to a neighbouring country to be 'processed'!
    Terrifying.
    Maybe they shouldn't travel through many safe countries to reach Britain, on a path that is deadly, dangerous, illegal and fuelling criminals then?

    Which African regime do we border? France?
    If you speak English as a second language and several members of your family, even extended family, are here.....
  • Options
    state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,422
    edited June 2021

    Those two football matches were quite fantastic. Can't help thinking England are incapable of that kind of play. Nor are our referees capable of letting the game free flow like that. Kind of sums up the nation really. Oh and for all of Paul Pogba's self-congratulatory brilliance it was him who gave the ball away in the 90th minute, directly causing the Swiss equaliser.

    Meanwhile, you can still get an astonishing 22-1 on Sajid Javid for next Conservative leader. This is a true value bet.

    yes I can just about forgive Pogba's routine when scoring but you do have to be good and he aint that good imho.

    The trainers have been on the pitch seemingly constantly in this euro championship as presumably players are rolling around more . This kills football for me , Its frankly ridiculous and seems to have got to the stage where players are kicking the ball out for a player who has cramp. For all the good goals and skill , this euros is quite boring and childish .

    Having 5 subs as well just adds to the disjointed play

    And whilst I am at it , the format of it is ludicrous and unfair . Having about ten hosts makes the group games so unfair
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,346

    Any rise in interest rates has the potential to change the political landscape very, very quickly. The government will be hoping that current inflationary pressures are a blip. If they're not, there could be real trouble ahead.

    I have been suggesting house price deflation on the back of consumer inflation and interest rate rises from increased money circulation could be catastrophic. I keep being told that I am focusing on the economics of the 1980s and we are these days insulated from such a fiasco.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,076

    If immigrants cause high house prices, why is it that house prices have gone up so much when immigration has been so low over the last 18 months?

    Has immigration fallen? I though EU migration had, but not from other countries.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,615

    If immigrants cause high house prices, why is it that house prices have gone up so much when immigration has been so low over the last 18 months?

    Because we are dealing with the effect of a couple of decades of

    - A housing planning system which kind of worked when the population was relatively static.
    - A population that was growing at the rate of a good sized town per year.

    Even if we had zero population growth for decades, the exiting problem would only slowly reduce as house building catches up.

    I understand why people want to play down the role that immigration has had in house price inflation. It smacks of immigrant blaming.... but it is simple truth.

    Not enough bedrooms for the people who live in this country, entirely legally and properly.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,020

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    F##k off....first it will be for this, then for the BBC, etc etc etc

    BBC News - Stars call for 'gadget levy' to fund UK creatives
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-57642147

    Lol, a bunch of already-rich actors moaning again. How’s about they make something people want to watch? Plenty of people are making six figures from Youtube and podcasts.

    Alternatively, there’s an organisation already given £4bn of public money every year, that doesn’t have to chase ratings. I wonder if any of these Luvvies, or the hacks writing that piece, have heard of it?
    To be fair, I think there are significant issues with the entertainment industry. Financially, there seems to be an inverted pyramid of wealth, with vast incomes at the top, and very little income for those at the bottom. (In fact it's just like many other industries.)

    In addition, the industry has traditionally treated people like sh*t, with exploitative contracts and worse. Sony have just righted a significant wrong; it would be good if other followed.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/bobbyowsinski/2021/06/13/sony-music-moves-to-pay-royalties-to-artists-that-still-owe-it-money/?sh=63947fd35a63

    ISTR that Bros were left essentially penniless after their success, as it turned out that all the cars and clothes they were given actually came out of their earnings in advance. Also, it took years for other successful artists to get money from their hits. Some delay is understandable as money trickles through the system, but not multiple years.

    You would have expected the Internet to have democratised content creation; it might just have created new ways for the big corps to exploit talent.

    That doesn't mean that the famous people stating this are the right messengers; but there are issues. I'm unsure this proposal does much to address those issues. For one thing, it's just another area where 'administration fees' could soak up vast amounts of the income.

    (IANAE; just my views from the outside)
    Oh, completely, the music industry in particular is full of exploitative contracts and behaviours, and we all know that Hollywood Accounting ensures that movies don’t make money because that would mean shareholders in the venture getting paid returns.

    This famous article from Courtney Love is 20 years old, and not much has changed really since then, at least not as far as the record companies are concerned.
    https://www.salon.com/2000/06/14/love_7/
    The only way you ever make money as a musician, is by playing live.
    Somewhere I've got an original 1988 copy of 'The Manual: How to have a Number One Hit single the easy way', written by Bill Drummond and Jimmy Cauty. Drummond had been in the industry for a decade as both artist and management, and knew it well. It was quite an eye-opener. It's really dated now, but when I look at the music being produced today, perhaps the fundamentals have not changed even as the technology has.

    A hit is still a hit. The key is how to get that hit 'out' to the audience.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Manual

    Here is an excerpt about Dagenham:
    "The studio is called The Village and it is stuck on an industrial estate in Dagenham between a printers and a carpenter's shop. Whatever we say about Dagenham would do a disservice to the people who live there. As there are no entertaining distractions in the place it inspires hard work. Dagenham seems to breed a variety of dope smoking soul boys addicted to putting highlights in their badly cut hair. The older males have a constant need to be funny and talk about the price of second hand cars. "

    And solicitors:
    "Solicitors. We spoke a little of them earlier on. The quote: "Don't move without first checking with your solicitor is the fastest way of making him a very rich man. But definitely do not go a block without first giving him a call", is true. "

    It's all genius.
    Of course they were behind the KLF / Justified Ancients of Mu Mu / JAMMs who had some of the biggest hits of the early 1990s, like What Time Is Love, 3am Eternal, Last Train To Trancentral, and Justifed and Ancient. They also had a number one in 1988 with Doctorin The Tardis under the name The Timelords.
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,556
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    F##k off....first it will be for this, then for the BBC, etc etc etc

    BBC News - Stars call for 'gadget levy' to fund UK creatives
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-57642147

    Lol, a bunch of already-rich actors moaning again. How’s about they make something people want to watch? Plenty of people are making six figures from Youtube and podcasts.

    Alternatively, there’s an organisation already given £4bn of public money every year, that doesn’t have to chase ratings. I wonder if any of these Luvvies, or the hacks writing that piece, have heard of it?
    To be fair, I think there are significant issues with the entertainment industry. Financially, there seems to be an inverted pyramid of wealth, with vast incomes at the top, and very little income for those at the bottom. (In fact it's just like many other industries.)

    In addition, the industry has traditionally treated people like sh*t, with exploitative contracts and worse. Sony have just righted a significant wrong; it would be good if other followed.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/bobbyowsinski/2021/06/13/sony-music-moves-to-pay-royalties-to-artists-that-still-owe-it-money/?sh=63947fd35a63

    ISTR that Bros were left essentially penniless after their success, as it turned out that all the cars and clothes they were given actually came out of their earnings in advance. Also, it took years for other successful artists to get money from their hits. Some delay is understandable as money trickles through the system, but not multiple years.

    You would have expected the Internet to have democratised content creation; it might just have created new ways for the big corps to exploit talent.

    That doesn't mean that the famous people stating this are the right messengers; but there are issues. I'm unsure this proposal does much to address those issues. For one thing, it's just another area where 'administration fees' could soak up vast amounts of the income.

    (IANAE; just my views from the outside)
    Oh, completely, the music industry in particular is full of exploitative contracts and behaviours, and we all know that Hollywood Accounting ensures that movies don’t make money because that would mean shareholders in the venture getting paid returns.

    This famous article from Courtney Love is 20 years old, and not much has changed really since then, at least not as far as the record companies are concerned.
    https://www.salon.com/2000/06/14/love_7/
    The only way you ever make money as a musician, is by playing live.
    It used to be the other way round, I think, and tours were loss leaders to promote album sales. Then most venues were smaller and tickets were cheaper, and I don't recall seeing merchandise on sale.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,791
    Thread on why the Dover armageddon didn't happen:

    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1409778667014823936?s=20
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    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,489
    I'm guessing this may well have been shared already (I was away when the Hancock story broke, so not up to date with PB) but just in case, here's the Hancock Shaggy parody
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPAoAMsJuxE

    And damn, the original is over 20 years old! Seems like yesterday...
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    TimS said:

    That Labour ad is repulsive. Forget the “it’s a photo of one politician” nonsense, it’s naked communalism, not even a dog whistle, exploiting the worst religious bigotries of the subcontinent. Bigotries this country had a big role in entrenching in the run up to partition.

    A grown up political party shouldn’t be coming within a mile of it. What with that and Priti’s African migrant camps were really excelling as a country this week aren’t we.

    Both major parties have been indulging sub-continent communalism for a while now. Look at the Goldsmith campaign against Sadiq Khan in 2016 for a prime example. I agree it's awful and immensely unhealthy.

    Think too, of the effect on a refugee of escaping a criminal African regime, getting to Britain, and then being flown back to a neighbouring country to be 'processed'!
    Terrifying.
    Maybe they shouldn't travel through many safe countries to reach Britain, on a path that is deadly, dangerous, illegal and fuelling criminals then?

    Which African regime do we border? France?
    If you speak English as a second language and several members of your family, even extended family, are here.....
    Then that's a reason to want to migrate here. For which there are legal paths to apply.

    It's not asylum.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,007
    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:

    Floater said:

    isam said:

    The leaflet was real - Hindus are Sir Keir’s Jews


    Disgusting
    The moral high ground they thought they had over UKIP, Leave, Jezza and Boris has gone. Tut tut
    The moral ground who had?
    Sir Keir’s Centrist Remainers
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,556



    What was the undoing of Blair? Perhaps Iraq. He exited stage left before he got booted out, thus preserving his self-importance.

    Boris Johnson is a lot less self-secure than Tony Blair. With Blair you get the impression he really DOES think he's brilliant whereas with Boris Johnson there's always a gnawing doubt around the edges.

    Of course, everyone is a lot less self-secure than Tony Blair. Even @contrarian.

    Blair's self-belief is indestructible. He still is adamant he was correct over Iraq. There is not a scintilla of doubt there.

    But, it surely can be argued that Boris' psychology is a safer one for a top politician.

    It is better to have some self-doubt, because you are then more ready to back-track, if that is what is needed.

    And sometimes the best course for a politician is a U-turn.
    Are we perhaps confusing self-doubt with doubt? Boris has the latter, perhaps because he does not readily grasp complex issues and might be functionally innumerate, but not the former. He may not know what to do but is absolutely sure he is the best person to do it.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,615

    How the feck has it taken until now for the powers that be to figure out that an FFP3 mask offers the wearer greater protection than a surgical mask?

    How many NHS staff have been needlessly infected as a result of inadequate PPE?

    Hunt could have organised a stockpile of 25 million of them. When there was no price-gouging, supply-constraining pandemic going on.
    From talking to various medical people, there seems to be resistance in general to non-disposable "serious" protection systems. My doctor says that at first it made her feel "wrong" - as if she was isolating herself from the patient. She is very intelligent and pushed herself to use it when dealing with patients who quite definitely had COVID.....

    Having used a blown air mask for welding stainless - there is no comparison in comfort*, and properly setup you are much much aware of the environment around you. And in a hot environment the air-conditioning effect is... wonderful.

    *Compared to a bodged together system of masks, visors etc.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    If immigrants cause high house prices, why is it that house prices have gone up so much when immigration has been so low over the last 18 months?

    Because people who haven't been able to have a holiday etc have nothing better to do or spend their money on than look for a new home?

    Because a poxy flat in the city may be nice when you're young, working and not spending much time at home and have a social life in the city but when you're at home and possibly face a future working there more then suddenly a house seems much more attractive?
This discussion has been closed.