“Probability factor of one to one. We have normality. I repeat: we have normality. Anything you stil
Comments
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Warning: Comment is ON TOPIC
In Denmark "real" classes start at 7 - the 6 year olds are in nullte klasse - 0th class and are preparing for 'real' classes by doing some maths and Danish - but what they are really doing is learning how to cooperate, how to tidy up and how to generally be a social being - it's a core part of Danish education, especially the focus on play / taking risks and solving arguments/disputes together.
My daughter who lives with her mum in the UK is however learning Python, has been taught how to structure a story and write in different styles, sing in a choir and dress up as a Tudor queen. She has been taught differently but no less widely or effectively in my view.
Reading the opinions of some posters who seem to think kids could have automated teaching in the future; such a ghastly dystopian world should not be part of anyone's dream scenario - education is a social process not a purely technical one - having been a pupil a parent and studied education structures for my doctorate I groan inwardly as everyone goes around in circles as they have done for thousands of years, until they settle on the fact that children, in groups led by a knowledgeable and engaged teacher have the best preparation for self-learning in later life.8 -
As an aside, the lead voice on indie SAGE is David King. He once did Vallance's job iirc.FrancisUrquhart said:As Susan Michie, is there ever a week she doesn't pop up on Sky News screaming stop it all, close it all down?
Where would we be if he had been driving policy for last 18 months?0 -
Sponsor a child...its racist and akin to colonialism...
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/may/31/sponsor-a-child-schemes-attacked-for-perpetuating-racist-attitudes0 -
Basically the same place.rottenborough said:
As an aside, the lead voice on indie SAGE is David King. He once did Vallance's job iirc.FrancisUrquhart said:As Susan Michie, is there ever a week she doesn't pop up on Sky News screaming stop it all, close it all down?
Where would we be if he had been driving policy for last 18 months?
The government have consistently been told by SAGE to lockdown and then they wait 1-2 weeks to enact it and for whatever reason they just won't close the border.
All the rest is just tinkering around the edges and make virtually no difference.1 -
Tbf it's the mirror of you and "Sir Keir". Chances of you not hating any reported detail about him are virtually zero.isam said:
Yes, agree completely.Theuniondivvie said:
Shame on youngvulgarian for being so sickeningly, boringly, predictably boilerplate lefty stereotype as to having to hate everything about someone she doesn’t like’s wedding.
Uurgh indeed 👏🏻0 -
Eight friends went to watch United in pub last Wednesday (two groups of four), first time all been out in over a year, I gave it a miss as in isolation waiting for wife to have operation.
Yesterday one of them get an alert on phone about being in contact with positive case, took lateral flow test, positive.
4 others with lateral flow tests at home all also positive, one other PCR test positive.
Only one who is double jabbed continues to return negative lateral flow tests, all others have single jabs, some of them feeling pretty shit.
Shows that going inside again is very different to the outside meetings, especially for those with single jabs.1 -
But how long after their first jab? And which one? Its a minimum 3 weeks before it does anything and then depending on which one it can still be fairly low coverage for a number of weeks after that (as it builds).ManchesterKurt said:Eight friends went to watch United in pub last Wednesday (two groups of four), first time all been out in over a year, I gave it a miss as in isolation waiting for wife to have operation.
Yesterday one of them get an alert on phone about being in contact with positive case, took lateral flow test, positive.
4 others with lateral flow tests at home all also positive, one other PCR test positive.
Only one who is double jabbed continues to return negative lateral flow tests, all others have single jabs, some of them feeling pretty shit.
Shows that going inside again is very different to the outside meetings, especially for those with single jabs.
Its an issue that drives me mad about government messaging, they really don't ram thus down people's throats enough.1 -
I didn't think she was particularly lefty, but I yield to an expert in the field of pinko sniffing.isam said:
Yes, agree completely.Theuniondivvie said:
Shame on youngvulgarian for being so sickeningly, boringly, predictably boilerplate lefty stereotype as to having to hate everything about someone she doesn’t like’s wedding.
Uurgh indeed 👏🏻
I thought you might be concerned by a list blander than white sliced.0 -
Talking about woke and unwoke, has everyone seen this?MarqueeMark said:
Are those of us who refuse to go along with it the woke-shy?stodge said:
It's a competition - how many times can you post ridiculous derivations of the W-word in a single contribution?squareroot2 said:
The woke will soon be trying to stop.people learning Latin because the Romans were such nasty chaps with all that slavery, buggery and all kinds of perverted non pc behaviour..
I see the wokies at Kings College London have been having a wokeathon over a picture of the Duke of Edinburgh.
So, wokies, wokeathon, wokeish, wokery, wokeworthy, woke-infused, overwoked (and under pid presumably) to name but seven.
https://www.museumsassociation.org/museums-journal/news/2021/05/resignation-of-national-trust-chair-not-linked-to-members-revolt/0 -
Varies, longest was several weeks, very close to second jabs, some couple of days after first jab.FrancisUrquhart said:
But how long after their first jab? And which one? Its a minimum 3 weeks before it does anything and then depending on which one it can still be fairly low coverage for a number of weeks after that (as it builds).ManchesterKurt said:Eight friends went to watch United in pub last Wednesday (two groups of four), first time all been out in over a year, I gave it a miss as in isolation waiting for wife to have operation.
Yesterday one of them get an alert on phone about being in contact with positive case, took lateral flow test, positive.
4 others with lateral flow tests at home all also positive, one other PCR test positive.
Only one who is double jabbed continues to return negative lateral flow tests, all others have single jabs, some of them feeling pretty shit.
Shows that going inside again is very different to the outside meetings, especially for those with single jabs.
All aged 42-46.
All AZ I think, including the one who has double jabs.0 -
What's to be done with those Chelsea supporters who vandalized Winnie's statue?0
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@Richard_Tyndall Many thanks for a really interesting header. Will read the thread, I doubt if any comment I might make will have been missed by others.
Good afternoon, everybody.1 -
You do realise that that's not the list of songs played, but rather a list of songs off of their demo video right (i.e. examples of genres they can play)?Theuniondivvie said:
I didn't think she was particularly lefty, but I yield to an expert in the field of pinko sniffing.isam said:
Yes, agree completely.Theuniondivvie said:
Shame on youngvulgarian for being so sickeningly, boringly, predictably boilerplate lefty stereotype as to having to hate everything about someone she doesn’t like’s wedding.
Uurgh indeed 👏🏻
I thought you might be concerned by a list blander than white sliced.0 -
Interesting
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/31/france-italy-germany-brexit-deals-uk
I like the slant of the sub headline - “first sign U.K. is willing to forge bilateral relations...”.
Surely any barrier/lack of willingness to bilateral relations is more likely to emerge from the other side!1 -
I thought the issue was her taste in music? Unless fellow-travellers can be detected in that way, a sort of modern equivalent of stabbing someone with a needle till you find a mole without any sensory nerves, or taking a scunner to her pussybaudrons as devilishly feline.Theuniondivvie said:
I didn't think she was particularly lefty, but I yield to an expert in the field of pinko sniffing.isam said:
Yes, agree completely.Theuniondivvie said:
Shame on youngvulgarian for being so sickeningly, boringly, predictably boilerplate lefty stereotype as to having to hate everything about someone she doesn’t like’s wedding.
Uurgh indeed 👏🏻
I thought you might be concerned by a list blander than white sliced.0 -
Good afternoon, Miss JGP.1
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Move on, nothing to see 'ereStark_Dawning said:What's to be done with those Chelsea supporters who vandalized Winnie's statue?
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Powered by diesel.rottenborough said:
As an aside, the lead voice on indie SAGE is David King. He once did Vallance's job iirc.FrancisUrquhart said:As Susan Michie, is there ever a week she doesn't pop up on Sky News screaming stop it all, close it all down?
Where would we be if he had been driving policy for last 18 months?
Addendum: King’s enthusiasm for all things diesel showing how people who purport themselves as experts and having superior knowledge can prove to be wholly wrong. Not that he’s ever acknowledged that in any material way because he is cleverer than you.0 -
I noticed there was significant boo-ing of taking of the knee at the final.Stark_Dawning said:What's to be done with those Chelsea supporters who vandalized Winnie's statue?
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rottenborough said:
As an aside, the lead voice on indie SAGE is David King. He once did Vallance's job iirc.FrancisUrquhart said:As Susan Michie, is there ever a week she doesn't pop up on Sky News screaming stop it all, close it all down?
Where would we be if he had been driving policy for last 18 months?
Ex player syndrome.0 -
The thing with independent sage always calling for lockdown harder, is you can't lose...its like arguing speed limits should be reduced from 30 to 20 to 10 to 5....as a way of reducing road deaths.
Sure that's true, but you aren't the ones having to consider the other side of the equation.4 -
I wonder if these chaps take The Telegraph?
https://twitter.com/ripricoli/status/1399221106448478219?s=200 -
Isn't there an argument for earlier and stronger lockdowns lead to fewer and shorter lockdowns?FrancisUrquhart said:The thing with independent sage always calling for lockdown harder, is you can't lose...its like arguing speed limits should be reduced from 30 to 20 to 10 to 5....as a way of reducing road deaths.
Sure that's true, but you aren't the ones having to consider the other side of the equation.0 -
But their argument is always everything, its too risky...ManchesterKurt said:
Isn't there an argument for earlier and stronger lockdowns lead to fewer and shorter lockdowns?FrancisUrquhart said:The thing with independent sage always calling for lockdown harder, is you can't lose...its like arguing speed limits should be reduced from 30 to 20 to 10 to 5....as a way of reducing road deaths.
Sure that's true, but you aren't the ones having to consider the other side of the equation.
The government have consistently waited 1-2 weeks too long and should have closed the borders, but for examole Independent SAGE argue schools reopening too risky, turns out not to be true, but they don't have to be accountable for that. Nor the impact on kids schooling, nor parents having to do home schooling.
As for shorter, there is a minimum regardless as it takes a fairly long time to break the inter household transmission. The nonsense you can just do 2 weeks just doesn't told true.
And if you argue for "zero covid" strategy, as we see in even Australia, you are going to be going back into lockdown on a fairly regular basis.0 -
But we don't know that.FrancisUrquhart said:
But their argument is always everything, its too risky...ManchesterKurt said:
Isn't there an argument for earlier and stronger lockdowns lead to fewer and shorter lockdowns?FrancisUrquhart said:The thing with independent sage always calling for lockdown harder, is you can't lose...its like arguing speed limits should be reduced from 30 to 20 to 10 to 5....as a way of reducing road deaths.
Sure that's true, but you aren't the ones having to consider the other side of the equation.
The government have consistently waited 1-2 weeks too long and should have closed the borders, but for examole Independent SAGE argue schools reopening too risky, turns out not to be true, but they don't have to be accountable for that. Nor the impact on kids schooling, nor parents having to do home schooling.
If the government had locked down earlier and stronger each time what makes you think that they would not have supported relaxing much earlier ?
Look at the current lockdown that started in January, maybe if independent SAGE was listened too they would have been supporting it ending weeks earlier as the data would have been far better.
These people have no desire to lock people up, they just look at the evidence that leaving things too long creates longer lock downs than doing them early.0 -
State of that carpet.....Theuniondivvie said:I wonder if these chaps take The Telegraph?
https://twitter.com/ripricoli/status/1399221106448478219?s=200 -
Because they want us to follow a zero covid strategy, which requires constant lockdowns. Its just the way covid works, and even when everybody is vaccinated.ManchesterKurt said:
But we don't know that.FrancisUrquhart said:
But their argument is always everything, its too risky...ManchesterKurt said:
Isn't there an argument for earlier and stronger lockdowns lead to fewer and shorter lockdowns?FrancisUrquhart said:The thing with independent sage always calling for lockdown harder, is you can't lose...its like arguing speed limits should be reduced from 30 to 20 to 10 to 5....as a way of reducing road deaths.
Sure that's true, but you aren't the ones having to consider the other side of the equation.
The government have consistently waited 1-2 weeks too long and should have closed the borders, but for examole Independent SAGE argue schools reopening too risky, turns out not to be true, but they don't have to be accountable for that. Nor the impact on kids schooling, nor parents having to do home schooling.
If the government had locked down earlier and stronger each time what makes you think that they would not have supported relaxing much earlier ?
Look at the current lockdown that started in January, maybe if independent SAGE was listened too they would have been supporting it ending weeks earlier as the data would have been far better.
These people have no desire to lock people up, they just look at the evidence that leaving things too long creates longer lock downs than doing them early.
Unless you are talking single digit cases, you need a month to make an impact. There is no easy solution.0 -
Winnie Mandela still has statues?Stark_Dawning said:What's to be done with those Chelsea supporters who vandalized Winnie's statue?
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Wow. That looked close to a lethal "I can't breathe!" incident which might well have triggered an international #chavlivesmatter moment. Proper blokes all over the Western World showing solidarity by having one too many, finding a wall and 'taking a pee'.Theuniondivvie said:I wonder if these chaps take The Telegraph?
https://twitter.com/ripricoli/status/1399221106448478219?s=200 -
Yes, a fair enough point to make. I don’t say exactly the same as this, but close enough to expect this retort from one someone eager to be seen scoring a point.kinabalu said:
Tbf it's the mirror of you and "Sir Keir". Chances of you not hating any reported detail about him are virtually zero.isam said:
Yes, agree completely.Theuniondivvie said:
Shame on youngvulgarian for being so sickeningly, boringly, predictably boilerplate lefty stereotype as to having to hate everything about someone she doesn’t like’s wedding.
Uurgh indeed 👏🏻
I don’t think I dig him out for his non political life though, meat eating vegetarianism aside maybe. I’ve always said he seems a decent enough bloke who I disagree with politically, and who lacks the charisma to defeat Boris electorally.
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I think it’s pretty acceptable stuff for a wedding party, and a nice touch that they wander around. I wouldn’t have Elliott Smith or Nirvana at mine, you want a bit of funTheuniondivvie said:
I didn't think she was particularly lefty, but I yield to an expert in the field of pinko sniffing.isam said:
Yes, agree completely.Theuniondivvie said:
Shame on youngvulgarian for being so sickeningly, boringly, predictably boilerplate lefty stereotype as to having to hate everything about someone she doesn’t like’s wedding.
Uurgh indeed 👏🏻
I thought you might be concerned by a list blander than white sliced.0 -
Anyone advocing shutting the country down, should be asked how secure their own income would be in that situation.FrancisUrquhart said:As Susan Michie, is there ever a week she doesn't pop up on Sky News screaming stop it all, close it all down?
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My favourite bit of the Scunthorpe video is about 40 seconds in. While there is mayhem in the foreground (though we do not know why) in the background there are a couple of tables not paying attention, and carrying on drinking as normal. Is it because this is a regular occurance? Or are they just demonstrating English reserve, not wanting to get involved in someone else's business?kinabalu said:
Wow. That looked close to a lethal "I can't breathe!" incident which might well have triggered an international #chavlivesmatter moment. Proper blokes all over the Western World showing solidarity by having one too many, finding a wall and 'taking a pee'.Theuniondivvie said:I wonder if these chaps take The Telegraph?
https://twitter.com/ripricoli/status/1399221106448478219?s=201 -
I wonder if one day we might see a headline on the BBC:
'"Delay roadmap easing by a few weeks" - a leading scientist doesn't say'?
These days people don't even have to group together to draft a 30 person letter.0 -
Someone was taking the piss by booking a violinist!isam said:
I think it’s pretty acceptable stuff for a wedding party, and a nice touch that they wander around. I wouldn’t have Elliott Smith or Nirvana at mine, you want a bit of funTheuniondivvie said:
I didn't think she was particularly lefty, but I yield to an expert in the field of pinko sniffing.isam said:
Yes, agree completely.Theuniondivvie said:
Shame on youngvulgarian for being so sickeningly, boringly, predictably boilerplate lefty stereotype as to having to hate everything about someone she doesn’t like’s wedding.
Uurgh indeed 👏🏻
I thought you might be concerned by a list blander than white sliced.2 -
@HugoGye
Some people are in the pubs, they think #ZeroCovid is all over... it is now!
https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1399353683058565121
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Members of Independent SAGE have also consistently pushed the angle we can't do x, because the vaccines don't work / might not work / one very small and not very reputable study has shown that.Sandpit said:
Anyone advocing shutting the country down, should be asked how secure their own income would be in that situation.FrancisUrquhart said:As Susan Michie, is there ever a week she doesn't pop up on Sky News screaming stop it all, close it all down?
As I said down thread, its the speed limit argument, you are never wrong if you claim reducing the speed limit will save lives.1 -
For anyone in South-West London, you can just turn up at Twickenham stadium today and get vaccinated.
https://twitter.com/samueldhopkins/status/13993364492045393945 -
One annoying aspect, I went on the website to see if I could bring my second vaccination forward, and it told me I had to cancel my current appointment if I wanted to change...well I don't really want to risk that.0
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Of course, if 95% of posters on here hadn't spent the last year defending SAGE to the hilt from any criticism whatever, pouring scorn and spite on all manner people agitating for liberty, and repeating ad nauseam that vaccines automatically led to freedom, there would be no doubt now whatever.
21 June would be in the bag.
The fact is isn't is down to you guys. If you want someone to blame, look in the mirror.
You traded liberty for temporary 'safety'.
Now your liberty depends entirely on the whims of a philandering coward and a bunch of unaccountable academics whose 'science' is questionable at best and whose motives are suspect in certain cases.
Meanwhile. the horrendous queues for hospital treatment show that you are no more 'safe' than before the pandemic struck. Indeed you may well be less 'safe'
When will you learn that, in fact, liberty is the best form of 'safety'? .
In fact, liberty the only form of 'safety'.
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I think that what with ed Sheeran covers, and that fried egg hairband thingy, we can put our political differences aside and have a jolly good laugh, surely?isam said:
Yes, agree completely.Theuniondivvie said:
Shame on youngvulgarian for being so sickeningly, boringly, predictably boilerplate lefty stereotype as to having to hate everything about someone she doesn’t like’s wedding.
Uurgh indeed 👏🏻0 -
Don't you mean Brittas? Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!kinabalu said:
Tbf it's the mirror of you and "Sir Keir". Chances of you not hating any reported detail about him are virtually zero.isam said:
Yes, agree completely.Theuniondivvie said:
Shame on youngvulgarian for being so sickeningly, boringly, predictably boilerplate lefty stereotype as to having to hate everything about someone she doesn’t like’s wedding.
Uurgh indeed 👏🏻
As Foxy said earlier someone was taking the piss booking a violinist. I am just trying to work out who is trolling who?1 -
95%? Not so sure about that.contrarian said:Of course, if 95% of posters on here hadn't spent the last year defending SAGE to the hilt from any criticism whatever, pouring scorn and spite on all manner people agitating for liberty, and repeating ad nauseam that vaccines automatically led to freedom, there would be no doubt now whatever.
21 June would be in the bag.
The fact is isn't is down to you guys. If you want someone to blame, look in the mirror.
You traded liberty for temporary 'safety'.
Now your liberty depends entirely on the whims of a philandering coward and a bunch of unaccountable academics whose 'science' is questionable at best and whose motives are suspect in certain cases.
Meanwhile. the horrendous queues for hospital treatment show that you are no more 'safe' than before the pandemic struck. Indeed you may well be less 'safe'
When will you learn that, in fact, liberty is the best form of 'safety'? .
In fact, liberty the only form of 'safety'.
But certainly pleasing to learn that PB.com is so influential.0 -
We’ve been through this quite a lot of times. Without the vaccines, the political reality is that we’d be in never ending cycles of lockdowns and perma restrictions, until after perhaps 2-3 winters and herd immunity had been achieved. But who knows how long it would take, given societal behaviours.contrarian said:Of course, if 95% of posters on here hadn't spent the last year defending SAGE to the hilt from any criticism whatever, pouring scorn and spite on all manner people agitating for liberty, and repeating ad nauseam that vaccines automatically led to freedom, there would be no doubt now whatever.
21 June would be in the bag.
The fact is isn't is down to you guys. If you want someone to blame, look in the mirror.
You traded liberty for temporary 'safety'.
Now your liberty depends entirely on the whims of a philandering coward and a bunch of unaccountable academics whose 'science' is questionable at best and whose motives are suspect in certain cases.
Meanwhile. the horrendous queues for hospital treatment show that you are no more 'safe' than before the pandemic struck. Indeed you may well be less 'safe'
When will you learn that, in fact, liberty is the best form of 'safety'? .
In fact, liberty the only form of 'safety'.
Instead the vaccines have happily led us to the cusp of herd immunity much more quickly, and of course with a lower health impact. We have localised pockets that are still some way below herd immunity, because the gullible have been listening to anti vaxxers like you. And hence localised outbreaks are being jumped on by the zero covid-ers to agitate for continued restrictions.
Its no one else’s fault but you and your ilk that the nuttier scientists are still getting airtime to call for continued restrictions. But your cognitive dissonance blinds you to this.
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So were lockdowns 1 and 2 a good thing or a bad thing? Good is the answer, and you called them as bad, so your opinion is without value. You think your stand is principled libertarianism, but in fact you just don't like being inconvenienced by the facts of life.contrarian said:Of course, if 95% of posters on here hadn't spent the last year defending SAGE to the hilt from any criticism whatever, pouring scorn and spite on all manner people agitating for liberty, and repeating ad nauseam that vaccines automatically led to freedom, there would be no doubt now whatever.
21 June would be in the bag.
The fact is isn't is down to you guys. If you want someone to blame, look in the mirror.
You traded liberty for temporary 'safety'.
Now your liberty depends entirely on the whims of a philandering coward and a bunch of unaccountable academics whose 'science' is questionable at best and whose motives are suspect in certain cases.
Meanwhile. the horrendous queues for hospital treatment show that you are no more 'safe' than before the pandemic struck. Indeed you may well be less 'safe'
When will you learn that, in fact, liberty is the best form of 'safety'? .
In fact, liberty the only form of 'safety'.
Have you ever had cancer? I sincerely hope you haven't and never do, but if you do you will learn that cancer doesn't care. It doesn't care that a necessary operation clashes with your summer holiday plans, nor that your life expectancy now expires two years before the extended late life gap year you always promised yourself. Same with covid, and in neither case does raging against the authorities get you anywhere.
And before you play the Stockholm syndrome card, there is probably no such syndrome and if there is I do not suffer from it. Im just an adult.2 -
If you apply the criteria and goals for the interventions to tackle COVID-19 that some are now demanding more widely, then surely they would advocate similar restrictions for influenza and maybe other diseases.FrancisUrquhart said:
Members of Independent SAGE have also consistently pushed the angle we can't do x, because the vaccines don't work / might not work / one very small and not very reputable study has shown that.Sandpit said:
Anyone advocing shutting the country down, should be asked how secure their own income would be in that situation.FrancisUrquhart said:As Susan Michie, is there ever a week she doesn't pop up on Sky News screaming stop it all, close it all down?
As I said down thread, its the speed limit argument, you are never wrong if you claim reducing the speed limit will save lives.
Already some are aiming to move the goalposts from stopping COVID-19 blowing up again, to taking pressure off the health service to clear the backlog, and God know's how long that will take.2 -
I'm the same. I didn't want to risk ending up delaying the vaccination.FrancisUrquhart said:One annoying aspect, I went on the website to see if I could bring my second vaccination forward, and it told me I had to cancel my current appointment if I wanted to change...well I don't really want to risk that.
My second jab is now just 7 days away.0 -
IshmaelZ said:
So were lockdowns 1 and 2 a good thing or a bad thing? Good is the answer, and you called them as bad, so your opinion is without value. You think your stand is principled libertarianism, but in fact you just don't like being inconvenienced by the facts of life.contrarian said:Of course, if 95% of posters on here hadn't spent the last year defending SAGE to the hilt from any criticism whatever, pouring scorn and spite on all manner people agitating for liberty, and repeating ad nauseam that vaccines automatically led to freedom, there would be no doubt now whatever.
21 June would be in the bag.
The fact is isn't is down to you guys. If you want someone to blame, look in the mirror.
You traded liberty for temporary 'safety'.
Now your liberty depends entirely on the whims of a philandering coward and a bunch of unaccountable academics whose 'science' is questionable at best and whose motives are suspect in certain cases.
Meanwhile. the horrendous queues for hospital treatment show that you are no more 'safe' than before the pandemic struck. Indeed you may well be less 'safe'
When will you learn that, in fact, liberty is the best form of 'safety'? .
In fact, liberty the only form of 'safety'.
Have you ever had cancer? I sincerely hope you haven't and never do, but if you do you will learn that cancer doesn't care. It doesn't care that a necessary operation clashes with your summer holiday plans, nor that your life expectancy now expires two years before the extended late life gap year you always promised yourself. Same with covid, and in neither case does raging against the authorities get you anywhere.
And before you play the Stockholm syndrome card, there is probably no such syndrome and if there is I do not suffer from it. Im just an adult.
I just think my liberty is my birth right and I should not have had to give it up for anything.
Certainly not for a false notion of 'safety' that has merely led to a different kind of risk in terms of cancelled operations, missed GP appointments, soaring mental health challenges etc. etc. etc.
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Once you accept the government's rules are correct and sensible, you are obliged to accept the inexorable logic of them.glw said:
If you apply the criteria and goals for the interventions to tackle COVID-19 that some are now demanding more widely, then surely they would advocate similar restrictions for influenza and maybe other diseases.FrancisUrquhart said:
Members of Independent SAGE have also consistently pushed the angle we can't do x, because the vaccines don't work / might not work / one very small and not very reputable study has shown that.Sandpit said:
Anyone advocing shutting the country down, should be asked how secure their own income would be in that situation.FrancisUrquhart said:As Susan Michie, is there ever a week she doesn't pop up on Sky News screaming stop it all, close it all down?
As I said down thread, its the speed limit argument, you are never wrong if you claim reducing the speed limit will save lives.
Already some are aiming to move the goalposts from stopping COVID-19 blowing up again, to taking pressure off the health service to clear the backlog, and God know's how long that will take.
Eternal domination of life by cases of respiratory disease. Well, until civil disorder or economic meltdown intervene. Or both.
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Lockdown was more about dignity than safety. We had the power as a society to protect many of the vulnerable, and we chose to do so. You might not agree with that choice, but in a free society, you can't impose your view on everyone else.contrarian said:IshmaelZ said:
So were lockdowns 1 and 2 a good thing or a bad thing? Good is the answer, and you called them as bad, so your opinion is without value. You think your stand is principled libertarianism, but in fact you just don't like being inconvenienced by the facts of life.contrarian said:Of course, if 95% of posters on here hadn't spent the last year defending SAGE to the hilt from any criticism whatever, pouring scorn and spite on all manner people agitating for liberty, and repeating ad nauseam that vaccines automatically led to freedom, there would be no doubt now whatever.
21 June would be in the bag.
The fact is isn't is down to you guys. If you want someone to blame, look in the mirror.
You traded liberty for temporary 'safety'.
Now your liberty depends entirely on the whims of a philandering coward and a bunch of unaccountable academics whose 'science' is questionable at best and whose motives are suspect in certain cases.
Meanwhile. the horrendous queues for hospital treatment show that you are no more 'safe' than before the pandemic struck. Indeed you may well be less 'safe'
When will you learn that, in fact, liberty is the best form of 'safety'? .
In fact, liberty the only form of 'safety'.
Have you ever had cancer? I sincerely hope you haven't and never do, but if you do you will learn that cancer doesn't care. It doesn't care that a necessary operation clashes with your summer holiday plans, nor that your life expectancy now expires two years before the extended late life gap year you always promised yourself. Same with covid, and in neither case does raging against the authorities get you anywhere.
And before you play the Stockholm syndrome card, there is probably no such syndrome and if there is I do not suffer from it. Im just an adult.
I just think my liberty is my birth right and I should not have had to give it up for anything.
Certainly not for a false notion of 'safety' that has merely led to a different kind of risk in terms of cancelled operations, missed GP appointments, soaring mental health challenges etc. etc. etc.1 -
So should we have had lockdowns 1 and 2 or not?contrarian said:
Once you accept the government's rules are correct and sensible, you are obliged to accept the inexorable logic of them.glw said:
If you apply the criteria and goals for the interventions to tackle COVID-19 that some are now demanding more widely, then surely they would advocate similar restrictions for influenza and maybe other diseases.FrancisUrquhart said:
Members of Independent SAGE have also consistently pushed the angle we can't do x, because the vaccines don't work / might not work / one very small and not very reputable study has shown that.Sandpit said:
Anyone advocing shutting the country down, should be asked how secure their own income would be in that situation.FrancisUrquhart said:As Susan Michie, is there ever a week she doesn't pop up on Sky News screaming stop it all, close it all down?
As I said down thread, its the speed limit argument, you are never wrong if you claim reducing the speed limit will save lives.
Already some are aiming to move the goalposts from stopping COVID-19 blowing up again, to taking pressure off the health service to clear the backlog, and God know's how long that will take.
Eternal domination of life by cases of respiratory disease. Well, until civil disorder or economic meltdown intervene. Or both.0 -
'Dignity'williamglenn said:
Lockdown was more about dignity than safety. We had the power as a society to protect many of the vulnerable, and we chose to do so. You might not agree with that choice, but in a free society, you can't impose your view on everyone else.contrarian said:IshmaelZ said:
So were lockdowns 1 and 2 a good thing or a bad thing? Good is the answer, and you called them as bad, so your opinion is without value. You think your stand is principled libertarianism, but in fact you just don't like being inconvenienced by the facts of life.contrarian said:Of course, if 95% of posters on here hadn't spent the last year defending SAGE to the hilt from any criticism whatever, pouring scorn and spite on all manner people agitating for liberty, and repeating ad nauseam that vaccines automatically led to freedom, there would be no doubt now whatever.
21 June would be in the bag.
The fact is isn't is down to you guys. If you want someone to blame, look in the mirror.
You traded liberty for temporary 'safety'.
Now your liberty depends entirely on the whims of a philandering coward and a bunch of unaccountable academics whose 'science' is questionable at best and whose motives are suspect in certain cases.
Meanwhile. the horrendous queues for hospital treatment show that you are no more 'safe' than before the pandemic struck. Indeed you may well be less 'safe'
When will you learn that, in fact, liberty is the best form of 'safety'? .
In fact, liberty the only form of 'safety'.
Have you ever had cancer? I sincerely hope you haven't and never do, but if you do you will learn that cancer doesn't care. It doesn't care that a necessary operation clashes with your summer holiday plans, nor that your life expectancy now expires two years before the extended late life gap year you always promised yourself. Same with covid, and in neither case does raging against the authorities get you anywhere.
And before you play the Stockholm syndrome card, there is probably no such syndrome and if there is I do not suffer from it. Im just an adult.
I just think my liberty is my birth right and I should not have had to give it up for anything.
Certainly not for a false notion of 'safety' that has merely led to a different kind of risk in terms of cancelled operations, missed GP appointments, soaring mental health challenges etc. etc. etc.
I have heard it all now.
0 -
1 maybe. Two...?? It was a good-awful winter. But I reckon what happened would have happened anyway, lockdown or no lockdown.IshmaelZ said:
So should we have had lockdowns 1 and 2 or not?contrarian said:
Once you accept the government's rules are correct and sensible, you are obliged to accept the inexorable logic of them.glw said:
If you apply the criteria and goals for the interventions to tackle COVID-19 that some are now demanding more widely, then surely they would advocate similar restrictions for influenza and maybe other diseases.FrancisUrquhart said:
Members of Independent SAGE have also consistently pushed the angle we can't do x, because the vaccines don't work / might not work / one very small and not very reputable study has shown that.Sandpit said:
Anyone advocing shutting the country down, should be asked how secure their own income would be in that situation.FrancisUrquhart said:As Susan Michie, is there ever a week she doesn't pop up on Sky News screaming stop it all, close it all down?
As I said down thread, its the speed limit argument, you are never wrong if you claim reducing the speed limit will save lives.
Already some are aiming to move the goalposts from stopping COVID-19 blowing up again, to taking pressure off the health service to clear the backlog, and God know's how long that will take.
Eternal domination of life by cases of respiratory disease. Well, until civil disorder or economic meltdown intervene. Or both.0 -
We had to have lockdown because the virus was out of control, tens of thousands were going to die and the NHS would have collapsed.
Now, thanks the vaccines miracle the vast majority of the country will be vaccinated from his horrible virus so it's time to lift restrictions (which were only ever a temporary solution to give us time until the vaccines came on stream) and get back to normal.
A small minority of foollish anti-vaxers should be not be able to hold the country to ransom and keep us locked down beyond 21st June.
I'm confident Boris will see 21st June delivered.3 -
What would you do if you find out he likes The Jam? That's the real test.isam said:
Yes, a fair enough point to make. I don’t say exactly the same as this, but close enough to expect this retort from one someone eager to be seen scoring a point.kinabalu said:
Tbf it's the mirror of you and "Sir Keir". Chances of you not hating any reported detail about him are virtually zero.isam said:
Yes, agree completely.Theuniondivvie said:
Shame on youngvulgarian for being so sickeningly, boringly, predictably boilerplate lefty stereotype as to having to hate everything about someone she doesn’t like’s wedding.
Uurgh indeed 👏🏻
I don’t think I dig him out for his non political life though, meat eating vegetarianism aside maybe. I’ve always said he seems a decent enough bloke who I disagree with politically, and who lacks the charisma to defeat Boris electorally.0 -
That's not a serious position. You can argue that we should have accepted higher levels of infection and a higher death toll (like Russia, for example), but to ignore that this was the choice is to duck the moral argument.contrarian said:
1 maybe. Two...?? It was a good-awful winter. But I reckon what happened would have happened anyway, lockdown or no lockdown.IshmaelZ said:
So should we have had lockdowns 1 and 2 or not?contrarian said:
Once you accept the government's rules are correct and sensible, you are obliged to accept the inexorable logic of them.glw said:
If you apply the criteria and goals for the interventions to tackle COVID-19 that some are now demanding more widely, then surely they would advocate similar restrictions for influenza and maybe other diseases.FrancisUrquhart said:
Members of Independent SAGE have also consistently pushed the angle we can't do x, because the vaccines don't work / might not work / one very small and not very reputable study has shown that.Sandpit said:
Anyone advocing shutting the country down, should be asked how secure their own income would be in that situation.FrancisUrquhart said:As Susan Michie, is there ever a week she doesn't pop up on Sky News screaming stop it all, close it all down?
As I said down thread, its the speed limit argument, you are never wrong if you claim reducing the speed limit will save lives.
Already some are aiming to move the goalposts from stopping COVID-19 blowing up again, to taking pressure off the health service to clear the backlog, and God know's how long that will take.
Eternal domination of life by cases of respiratory disease. Well, until civil disorder or economic meltdown intervene. Or both.0 -
Well, you may have heard it, but nobody will accuse you of displaying it.contrarian said:
'Dignity'williamglenn said:
Lockdown was more about dignity than safety. We had the power as a society to protect many of the vulnerable, and we chose to do so. You might not agree with that choice, but in a free society, you can't impose your view on everyone else.contrarian said:IshmaelZ said:
So were lockdowns 1 and 2 a good thing or a bad thing? Good is the answer, and you called them as bad, so your opinion is without value. You think your stand is principled libertarianism, but in fact you just don't like being inconvenienced by the facts of life.contrarian said:Of course, if 95% of posters on here hadn't spent the last year defending SAGE to the hilt from any criticism whatever, pouring scorn and spite on all manner people agitating for liberty, and repeating ad nauseam that vaccines automatically led to freedom, there would be no doubt now whatever.
21 June would be in the bag.
The fact is isn't is down to you guys. If you want someone to blame, look in the mirror.
You traded liberty for temporary 'safety'.
Now your liberty depends entirely on the whims of a philandering coward and a bunch of unaccountable academics whose 'science' is questionable at best and whose motives are suspect in certain cases.
Meanwhile. the horrendous queues for hospital treatment show that you are no more 'safe' than before the pandemic struck. Indeed you may well be less 'safe'
When will you learn that, in fact, liberty is the best form of 'safety'? .
In fact, liberty the only form of 'safety'.
Have you ever had cancer? I sincerely hope you haven't and never do, but if you do you will learn that cancer doesn't care. It doesn't care that a necessary operation clashes with your summer holiday plans, nor that your life expectancy now expires two years before the extended late life gap year you always promised yourself. Same with covid, and in neither case does raging against the authorities get you anywhere.
And before you play the Stockholm syndrome card, there is probably no such syndrome and if there is I do not suffer from it. Im just an adult.
I just think my liberty is my birth right and I should not have had to give it up for anything.
Certainly not for a false notion of 'safety' that has merely led to a different kind of risk in terms of cancelled operations, missed GP appointments, soaring mental health challenges etc. etc. etc.
I have heard it all now.
As for the rest of your rantings, they will be taken seriously when you get yourself jabbed. The more people refuse the vaccine, the more likely we will be kept in perpetual lockdown, or semi-lockdown.
You're the one who needs the mirror.4 -
Nothing fucks up other people's liberty to the same extent as being dead does. So there's liberty on both sides of the equation.contrarian said:IshmaelZ said:
So were lockdowns 1 and 2 a good thing or a bad thing? Good is the answer, and you called them as bad, so your opinion is without value. You think your stand is principled libertarianism, but in fact you just don't like being inconvenienced by the facts of life.contrarian said:Of course, if 95% of posters on here hadn't spent the last year defending SAGE to the hilt from any criticism whatever, pouring scorn and spite on all manner people agitating for liberty, and repeating ad nauseam that vaccines automatically led to freedom, there would be no doubt now whatever.
21 June would be in the bag.
The fact is isn't is down to you guys. If you want someone to blame, look in the mirror.
You traded liberty for temporary 'safety'.
Now your liberty depends entirely on the whims of a philandering coward and a bunch of unaccountable academics whose 'science' is questionable at best and whose motives are suspect in certain cases.
Meanwhile. the horrendous queues for hospital treatment show that you are no more 'safe' than before the pandemic struck. Indeed you may well be less 'safe'
When will you learn that, in fact, liberty is the best form of 'safety'? .
In fact, liberty the only form of 'safety'.
Have you ever had cancer? I sincerely hope you haven't and never do, but if you do you will learn that cancer doesn't care. It doesn't care that a necessary operation clashes with your summer holiday plans, nor that your life expectancy now expires two years before the extended late life gap year you always promised yourself. Same with covid, and in neither case does raging against the authorities get you anywhere.
And before you play the Stockholm syndrome card, there is probably no such syndrome and if there is I do not suffer from it. Im just an adult.
I just think my liberty is my birth right and I should not have had to give it up for anything.
Certainly not for a false notion of 'safety' that has merely led to a different kind of risk in terms of cancelled operations, missed GP appointments, soaring mental health challenges etc. etc. etc.3 -
FFS William Florida and South Dakota show its the only serious position.williamglenn said:
That's not a serious position. You can argue that we should have accepted higher levels of infection and a higher death toll (like Russia, for example), but to ignore that this was the choice is to duck the moral argument.contrarian said:
1 maybe. Two...?? It was a good-awful winter. But I reckon what happened would have happened anyway, lockdown or no lockdown.IshmaelZ said:
So should we have had lockdowns 1 and 2 or not?contrarian said:
Once you accept the government's rules are correct and sensible, you are obliged to accept the inexorable logic of them.glw said:
If you apply the criteria and goals for the interventions to tackle COVID-19 that some are now demanding more widely, then surely they would advocate similar restrictions for influenza and maybe other diseases.FrancisUrquhart said:
Members of Independent SAGE have also consistently pushed the angle we can't do x, because the vaccines don't work / might not work / one very small and not very reputable study has shown that.Sandpit said:
Anyone advocing shutting the country down, should be asked how secure their own income would be in that situation.FrancisUrquhart said:As Susan Michie, is there ever a week she doesn't pop up on Sky News screaming stop it all, close it all down?
As I said down thread, its the speed limit argument, you are never wrong if you claim reducing the speed limit will save lives.
Already some are aiming to move the goalposts from stopping COVID-19 blowing up again, to taking pressure off the health service to clear the backlog, and God know's how long that will take.
Eternal domination of life by cases of respiratory disease. Well, until civil disorder or economic meltdown intervene. Or both.
But hey.
Keep attacking me. Keep praising Johnson. Keep defending SAGE. Keep getting vaccinated, tracked, traced and tested. Keep criticising those who are fighting for your freedoms and voting for and funding those who want rule by respiratory disease/
The fact is that what you have now is all you will ever get. Ever.
0 -
I know he supports Arsenal, and that makes no difference! If he liked The Jam that wouldn’t make any either. I probably disagree with Paul Weller politically now and he wrote the songskinabalu said:
What would you do if you find out he likes The Jam? That's the real test.isam said:
Yes, a fair enough point to make. I don’t say exactly the same as this, but close enough to expect this retort from one someone eager to be seen scoring a point.kinabalu said:
Tbf it's the mirror of you and "Sir Keir". Chances of you not hating any reported detail about him are virtually zero.isam said:
Yes, agree completely.Theuniondivvie said:
Shame on youngvulgarian for being so sickeningly, boringly, predictably boilerplate lefty stereotype as to having to hate everything about someone she doesn’t like’s wedding.
Uurgh indeed 👏🏻
I don’t think I dig him out for his non political life though, meat eating vegetarianism aside maybe. I’ve always said he seems a decent enough bloke who I disagree with politically, and who lacks the charisma to defeat Boris electorally.0 -
He didn't change his mind on reopening schools when the situation was much more serious and the risks involved much greater. That was another one he had foolishly repeatedly promised int he media as well.GIN1138 said:We had to have lockdown because the virus was out of control, tens of thousands were going to die and the NHS would have collapsed.
Now, thanks the vaccines miracle the vast majority of the country will be vaccinated from his horrible virus so it's time to lift restrictions (which were only ever a temporary solution to give us time until the vaccines came on stream) and get back to normal.
A small minority of foollish anti-vaxers should be not be able to hold the country to ransom and keep us locked down beyond 21st June.
I'm confident Boris will see 21st June delivered.
Ultimately, he does work on dates, not data. If he were working on data, he'd be relaxing restrictions faster not slower, whatever Indie Sage may think (or not think, as the case may be).
I don't see him changing his mind.2 -
I have never been tracked, traced or tested through the pandemic (I didn't want to download the track and trace app and I've not any Coronavirus symptoms to warrant getting tested)contrarian said:
FFS William Florida and South Dakota show its the only serious position.williamglenn said:
That's not a serious position. You can argue that we should have accepted higher levels of infection and a higher death toll (like Russia, for example), but to ignore that this was the choice is to duck the moral argument.contrarian said:
1 maybe. Two...?? It was a good-awful winter. But I reckon what happened would have happened anyway, lockdown or no lockdown.IshmaelZ said:
So should we have had lockdowns 1 and 2 or not?contrarian said:
Once you accept the government's rules are correct and sensible, you are obliged to accept the inexorable logic of them.glw said:
If you apply the criteria and goals for the interventions to tackle COVID-19 that some are now demanding more widely, then surely they would advocate similar restrictions for influenza and maybe other diseases.FrancisUrquhart said:
Members of Independent SAGE have also consistently pushed the angle we can't do x, because the vaccines don't work / might not work / one very small and not very reputable study has shown that.Sandpit said:
Anyone advocing shutting the country down, should be asked how secure their own income would be in that situation.FrancisUrquhart said:As Susan Michie, is there ever a week she doesn't pop up on Sky News screaming stop it all, close it all down?
As I said down thread, its the speed limit argument, you are never wrong if you claim reducing the speed limit will save lives.
Already some are aiming to move the goalposts from stopping COVID-19 blowing up again, to taking pressure off the health service to clear the backlog, and God know's how long that will take.
Eternal domination of life by cases of respiratory disease. Well, until civil disorder or economic meltdown intervene. Or both.
But hey.
Keep attacking me. Keep praising Johnson. Keep defending SAGE. Keep getting vaccinated, tracked, traced and tested. Keep criticising those who are fighting for your freedoms and voting for and funding those who want rule by respiratory disease/
The fact is that what you have now is all you will ever get. Ever.
I have however been vaccinated (have had one vaccine and got my second one on Thursday) as I see it as my moral duty to do so as the only way out of this disaster is through vaccinated. I would also rather not have Covid myself if I can help it.
You want to get your liberty back. As the Beatles (almost) said... GET VAX...5 -
Really? some American states have lower vaccination levels than we do, and they have been entirely free for months. Mask mandates are being junked in more and more places.ydoethur said:
Well, you may have heard it, but nobody will accuse you of displaying it.contrarian said:
'Dignity'williamglenn said:
Lockdown was more about dignity than safety. We had the power as a society to protect many of the vulnerable, and we chose to do so. You might not agree with that choice, but in a free society, you can't impose your view on everyone else.contrarian said:IshmaelZ said:
So were lockdowns 1 and 2 a good thing or a bad thing? Good is the answer, and you called them as bad, so your opinion is without value. You think your stand is principled libertarianism, but in fact you just don't like being inconvenienced by the facts of life.contrarian said:Of course, if 95% of posters on here hadn't spent the last year defending SAGE to the hilt from any criticism whatever, pouring scorn and spite on all manner people agitating for liberty, and repeating ad nauseam that vaccines automatically led to freedom, there would be no doubt now whatever.
21 June would be in the bag.
The fact is isn't is down to you guys. If you want someone to blame, look in the mirror.
You traded liberty for temporary 'safety'.
Now your liberty depends entirely on the whims of a philandering coward and a bunch of unaccountable academics whose 'science' is questionable at best and whose motives are suspect in certain cases.
Meanwhile. the horrendous queues for hospital treatment show that you are no more 'safe' than before the pandemic struck. Indeed you may well be less 'safe'
When will you learn that, in fact, liberty is the best form of 'safety'? .
In fact, liberty the only form of 'safety'.
Have you ever had cancer? I sincerely hope you haven't and never do, but if you do you will learn that cancer doesn't care. It doesn't care that a necessary operation clashes with your summer holiday plans, nor that your life expectancy now expires two years before the extended late life gap year you always promised yourself. Same with covid, and in neither case does raging against the authorities get you anywhere.
And before you play the Stockholm syndrome card, there is probably no such syndrome and if there is I do not suffer from it. Im just an adult.
I just think my liberty is my birth right and I should not have had to give it up for anything.
Certainly not for a false notion of 'safety' that has merely led to a different kind of risk in terms of cancelled operations, missed GP appointments, soaring mental health challenges etc. etc. etc.
I have heard it all now.
As for the rest of your rantings, they will be taken seriously when you get yourself jabbed. The more people refuse the vaccine, the more likely we will be kept in perpetual lockdown, or semi-lockdown.
You're the one who needs the mirror.
How can this be possible? if our government and our medics are right, how can these conditions exist? They should be completely impossible.
They aren't. Which only goes to show the government's attempt to turn us against each other is the worst kind of politics. It is garbage that your freedom is dependent upon my vaccination. It isn't in some other places.
0 -
Or alternatively, you are either (a) being deceived or (b) wilfully lying about what's happening.contrarian said:
Really? some American states have lower vaccination levels than we do, and they have been entirely free for months. Mask mandates are being junked in more and more places.ydoethur said:
Well, you may have heard it, but nobody will accuse you of displaying it.contrarian said:
'Dignity'williamglenn said:
Lockdown was more about dignity than safety. We had the power as a society to protect many of the vulnerable, and we chose to do so. You might not agree with that choice, but in a free society, you can't impose your view on everyone else.contrarian said:IshmaelZ said:
So were lockdowns 1 and 2 a good thing or a bad thing? Good is the answer, and you called them as bad, so your opinion is without value. You think your stand is principled libertarianism, but in fact you just don't like being inconvenienced by the facts of life.contrarian said:Of course, if 95% of posters on here hadn't spent the last year defending SAGE to the hilt from any criticism whatever, pouring scorn and spite on all manner people agitating for liberty, and repeating ad nauseam that vaccines automatically led to freedom, there would be no doubt now whatever.
21 June would be in the bag.
The fact is isn't is down to you guys. If you want someone to blame, look in the mirror.
You traded liberty for temporary 'safety'.
Now your liberty depends entirely on the whims of a philandering coward and a bunch of unaccountable academics whose 'science' is questionable at best and whose motives are suspect in certain cases.
Meanwhile. the horrendous queues for hospital treatment show that you are no more 'safe' than before the pandemic struck. Indeed you may well be less 'safe'
When will you learn that, in fact, liberty is the best form of 'safety'? .
In fact, liberty the only form of 'safety'.
Have you ever had cancer? I sincerely hope you haven't and never do, but if you do you will learn that cancer doesn't care. It doesn't care that a necessary operation clashes with your summer holiday plans, nor that your life expectancy now expires two years before the extended late life gap year you always promised yourself. Same with covid, and in neither case does raging against the authorities get you anywhere.
And before you play the Stockholm syndrome card, there is probably no such syndrome and if there is I do not suffer from it. Im just an adult.
I just think my liberty is my birth right and I should not have had to give it up for anything.
Certainly not for a false notion of 'safety' that has merely led to a different kind of risk in terms of cancelled operations, missed GP appointments, soaring mental health challenges etc. etc. etc.
I have heard it all now.
As for the rest of your rantings, they will be taken seriously when you get yourself jabbed. The more people refuse the vaccine, the more likely we will be kept in perpetual lockdown, or semi-lockdown.
You're the one who needs the mirror.
How can this be possible? if our government and our medics are right, how can these conditions exist? They should be completely impossible.
They aren't. Which only goes to show the government's attempt to turn us against each other is the worst kind of politics.
Either seems possible given on your own admission you're a fluent liar and your posts do not suggest great intellectual capacity.
I would be interested to see some of your source material, if you ever get round to posting it.
Edit - masks are of use in some settings, not others. Moreover, they're generally not being used correctly. So I'm not sure that's an important point either way, or at least, not as important as you think it is.1 -
Emigrate.contrarian said:
Really? some American states have lower vaccination levels than we do, and they have been entirely free for months. Mask mandates are being junked in more and more places.ydoethur said:
Well, you may have heard it, but nobody will accuse you of displaying it.contrarian said:
'Dignity'williamglenn said:
Lockdown was more about dignity than safety. We had the power as a society to protect many of the vulnerable, and we chose to do so. You might not agree with that choice, but in a free society, you can't impose your view on everyone else.contrarian said:IshmaelZ said:
So were lockdowns 1 and 2 a good thing or a bad thing? Good is the answer, and you called them as bad, so your opinion is without value. You think your stand is principled libertarianism, but in fact you just don't like being inconvenienced by the facts of life.contrarian said:Of course, if 95% of posters on here hadn't spent the last year defending SAGE to the hilt from any criticism whatever, pouring scorn and spite on all manner people agitating for liberty, and repeating ad nauseam that vaccines automatically led to freedom, there would be no doubt now whatever.
21 June would be in the bag.
The fact is isn't is down to you guys. If you want someone to blame, look in the mirror.
You traded liberty for temporary 'safety'.
Now your liberty depends entirely on the whims of a philandering coward and a bunch of unaccountable academics whose 'science' is questionable at best and whose motives are suspect in certain cases.
Meanwhile. the horrendous queues for hospital treatment show that you are no more 'safe' than before the pandemic struck. Indeed you may well be less 'safe'
When will you learn that, in fact, liberty is the best form of 'safety'? .
In fact, liberty the only form of 'safety'.
Have you ever had cancer? I sincerely hope you haven't and never do, but if you do you will learn that cancer doesn't care. It doesn't care that a necessary operation clashes with your summer holiday plans, nor that your life expectancy now expires two years before the extended late life gap year you always promised yourself. Same with covid, and in neither case does raging against the authorities get you anywhere.
And before you play the Stockholm syndrome card, there is probably no such syndrome and if there is I do not suffer from it. Im just an adult.
I just think my liberty is my birth right and I should not have had to give it up for anything.
Certainly not for a false notion of 'safety' that has merely led to a different kind of risk in terms of cancelled operations, missed GP appointments, soaring mental health challenges etc. etc. etc.
I have heard it all now.
As for the rest of your rantings, they will be taken seriously when you get yourself jabbed. The more people refuse the vaccine, the more likely we will be kept in perpetual lockdown, or semi-lockdown.
You're the one who needs the mirror.
How can this be possible? if our government and our medics are right, how can these conditions exist? They should be completely impossible.
They aren't. Which only goes to show the government's attempt to turn us against each other is the worst kind of politics. It is garbage that your freedom is dependent upon my vaccination. It isn't in some other places.0 -
How has Paul McCartney missed this opportunity for a charity single?GIN1138 said:You want to get your liberty back. As the Beatles (almost) said... GET VAX...
1 -
Shhh! Don't give him ideas...williamglenn said:
How has Paul McCartney missed this opportunity for a charity single?GIN1138 said:You want to get your liberty back. As the Beatles (almost) said... GET VAX...
2 -
I left school at the age of 16, at the end of year 5 in Scotland, and started University a week after my 17th birthday. I was bored of school by then and when I went to University they gave me a grant (those were the days) and a student Union card which allowed me to buy drink in most establishments (ditto).
I was, with hindsight, probably too young and too immature to make the best use of my first year but I was seriously bored of school and really wanted to do something else.
I don't think that I was that atypical. Many people, including those even less academically inclined than me, do not enjoy school and show precious little commitment to it. At the moment most of these end up doing some largely pointless college course which often reduces their employability given the very poor habits that college inculcates (poor attendance, no reward for effort (since everyone passes) and far too much downtime). I seriously question whether such people would benefit at all from 2 more years of compulsory schooling.
I am rather more taken with the argument that we start formal learning a bit soon but even if we accept that argument has merit I do not think that we should be adding years to the other end.
Good thread header though, thanks Richard.1 -
Get VAX Lorettawilliamglenn said:
How has Paul McCartney missed this opportunity for a charity single?GIN1138 said:You want to get your liberty back. As the Beatles (almost) said... GET VAX...
Go Home
Your mothers waiting for you
Wearing her high-heel shoes
And her low-neck sweater
Get the VAX Lorreta2 -
Yesterday, Israel has just five new covid cases.
I felt it was important to share that statistic, because (a) they are only a little more vaccinated than we are, and (b) are now when welcoming tourists (assuming they are double vaccinated).2 -
On 31 May, 3,383 new cases and 1 death within 28 days of a positive test were reported across the UK.1
-
For those putting forward Florida as an oasis of libertarianism, it is worth remembering that the State mostly delegated Covid restrictions to cities and counties. As a consequence, most make urban areas actually had fairly strict Covid restrictions.
Of course, the more spread out your population centers, the easier it is to have a strategy like this.0 -
Is that because it happens so quickly?ydoethur said:
I don't see him changing his mind.GIN1138 said:We had to have lockdown because the virus was out of control, tens of thousands were going to die and the NHS would have collapsed.
Now, thanks the vaccines miracle the vast majority of the country will be vaccinated from his horrible virus so it's time to lift restrictions (which were only ever a temporary solution to give us time until the vaccines came on stream) and get back to normal.
A small minority of foollish anti-vaxers should be not be able to hold the country to ransom and keep us locked down beyond 21st June.
I'm confident Boris will see 21st June delivered.1 -
Is the Israeli public keen on a range of continuing restrictions?rcs1000 said:Yesterday, Israel has just five new covid cases.
I felt it was important to share that statistic, because (a) they are only a little more vaccinated than we are, and (b) are now when welcoming tourists (assuming they are double vaccinated).
Does the Israeli media go out of its way to have the local equivalent of Fake SAGE on permanent repeat?
Do scientists advising the Israeli government continually give their own opinions (differing from consensus guidance) “on a personal basis”?
Are behaviours with respect to COVID really quite so politicised? “We must do this to own Netanyahu”?
2 -
Are you sure that only one person who's received a positive covid diagnosis in the last 28 days died?FrancisUrquhart said:On 31 May, 3,383 new cases and 1 death within 28 days of a positive test were reported across the UK.
That's around 100,000 people (or even a little more). That's like the population of Bedford and the surrounding villages. To have a day when nobody died in Bedford, would be quite extraordinary.0 -
We need hospitalisation numbers, vaccine status of patients, deaths and vaccinated numbers dailyFrancisUrquhart said:On 31 May, 3,383 new cases and 1 death within 28 days of a positive test were reported across the UK.
I wonder why they are not being provided
Nothing else matters1 -
I was just quoting the official tweet.rcs1000 said:
Are you sure that only one person who's received a positive covid diagnosis in the last 28 days died?FrancisUrquhart said:On 31 May, 3,383 new cases and 1 death within 28 days of a positive test were reported across the UK.
That's around 100,000 people (or even a little more). That's like the population of Bedford and the surrounding villages. To have a day when nobody died in Bedford, would be quite extraordinary.
That's not what it means. Its 1 death recorded today, of somebody who a positive covid diagnosis in the last 28 days.0 -
Of course it was....Carnyx said:
Talking about woke and unwoke, has everyone seen this?MarqueeMark said:
Are those of us who refuse to go along with it the woke-shy?stodge said:
It's a competition - how many times can you post ridiculous derivations of the W-word in a single contribution?squareroot2 said:
The woke will soon be trying to stop.people learning Latin because the Romans were such nasty chaps with all that slavery, buggery and all kinds of perverted non pc behaviour..
I see the wokies at Kings College London have been having a wokeathon over a picture of the Duke of Edinburgh.
So, wokies, wokeathon, wokeish, wokery, wokeworthy, woke-infused, overwoked (and under pid presumably) to name but seven.
https://www.museumsassociation.org/museums-journal/news/2021/05/resignation-of-national-trust-chair-not-linked-to-members-revolt/0 -
It was in Scotlandrcs1000 said:
Are you sure that only one person who's received a positive covid diagnosis in the last 28 days died?FrancisUrquhart said:On 31 May, 3,383 new cases and 1 death within 28 days of a positive test were reported across the UK.
That's around 100,000 people (or even a little more). That's like the population of Bedford and the surrounding villages. To have a day when nobody died in Bedford, would be quite extraordinary.0 -
Does seem a bit strange that hospitalisation numbers don’t appear to have been updated for a week. I know that’s often the case locally, but I thought the national numbers were normally more regular (even if necessarily incomplete)?Big_G_NorthWales said:
We need hospitalisation numbers, vaccine status of patients, deaths and vaccinated numbers dailyFrancisUrquhart said:On 31 May, 3,383 new cases and 1 death within 28 days of a positive test were reported across the UK.
I wonder why they are not being provided
Nothing else matters0 -
BoJo was a man who thought he was a gonerGIN1138 said:
Get VAX Lorettawilliamglenn said:
How has Paul McCartney missed this opportunity for a charity single?GIN1138 said:You want to get your liberty back. As the Beatles (almost) said... GET VAX...
Go Home
Your mothers waiting for you
Wearing her high-heel shoes
And her low-neck sweater
Get the VAX Lorreta
Thought that he'd had his last gasp
BoJo got us jabs from Oxford and Moderna
So our antibodies last
Get VAX, get VAX!9 -
LOL! :Well donewilliamglenn said:
BoJo was a man who thought he was a gonerGIN1138 said:
Get VAX Lorettawilliamglenn said:
How has Paul McCartney missed this opportunity for a charity single?GIN1138 said:You want to get your liberty back. As the Beatles (almost) said... GET VAX...
Go Home
Your mothers waiting for you
Wearing her high-heel shoes
And her low-neck sweater
Get the VAX Lorreta
Thought that he'd had his last gasp
BoJo got us jabs from Oxford and Moderna
So our antibodies last
Get VAX, get VAX!
0 -
Hospitalisation figures never come out at weekends and this is a long weekendBig_G_NorthWales said:
We need hospitalisation numbers, vaccine status of patients, deaths and vaccinated numbers dailyFrancisUrquhart said:On 31 May, 3,383 new cases and 1 death within 28 days of a positive test were reported across the UK.
I wonder why they are not being provided
Nothing else matters0 -
Richard Horton of the Lancet said this morning that on the 12th January 4,500 plus were in hospital and on the 25th May just 133alex_ said:
Does seem a bit strange that hospitalisation numbers don’t appear to have been updated for a week. I know that’s often the case locally, but I thought the national numbers were normally more regular (even if necessarily incomplete)?Big_G_NorthWales said:
We need hospitalisation numbers, vaccine status of patients, deaths and vaccinated numbers dailyFrancisUrquhart said:On 31 May, 3,383 new cases and 1 death within 28 days of a positive test were reported across the UK.
I wonder why they are not being provided
Nothing else matters
This is why we need these numbers, together with the vaccination status of those in hospital0 -
Well this is the point. If it turned out "Boris" or Farage supported Arsenal - or even your 2nd team, West Ham - you'd take this as a plus for them. Perhaps even blog approvingly about it. But Starmer gets no credit for it. What you don't like about him, you don't like. And what you do like about him, you stay silent on and pretend it isn't there. He can't win. And by that I don't mean the next election, I mean with you.isam said:
I know he supports Arsenal, and that makes no difference! If he liked The Jam that wouldn’t make any either. I probably disagree with Paul Weller politically now and he wrote the songskinabalu said:
What would you do if you find out he likes The Jam? That's the real test.isam said:
Yes, a fair enough point to make. I don’t say exactly the same as this, but close enough to expect this retort from one someone eager to be seen scoring a point.kinabalu said:
Tbf it's the mirror of you and "Sir Keir". Chances of you not hating any reported detail about him are virtually zero.isam said:
Yes, agree completely.Theuniondivvie said:
Shame on youngvulgarian for being so sickeningly, boringly, predictably boilerplate lefty stereotype as to having to hate everything about someone she doesn’t like’s wedding.
Uurgh indeed 👏🏻
I don’t think I dig him out for his non political life though, meat eating vegetarianism aside maybe. I’ve always said he seems a decent enough bloke who I disagree with politically, and who lacks the charisma to defeat Boris electorally.0 -
133 admitted. 870 in total. The number admitted in the seven days to 25th May exactly equals the number currently confined. Of course there won’t be complete overlap, but it does suggest pretty high turnover which might indicates lots of people with a positive test and mild symptoms presenting as a “precaution” and being discharged in a few days.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Richard Horton of the Lancet said this morning that on the 12th January 4,500 plus were in hospital and on the 25th May just 133alex_ said:
Does seem a bit strange that hospitalisation numbers don’t appear to have been updated for a week. I know that’s often the case locally, but I thought the national numbers were normally more regular (even if necessarily incomplete)?Big_G_NorthWales said:
We need hospitalisation numbers, vaccine status of patients, deaths and vaccinated numbers dailyFrancisUrquhart said:On 31 May, 3,383 new cases and 1 death within 28 days of a positive test were reported across the UK.
I wonder why they are not being provided
Nothing else matters
This is why we need these numbers, together with the vaccination status of those in hospital2 -
Brilliant viral video of an "alien" or a "ghost" crossing a bridge in India
"A human like 'bizarre creature' spotted in Jharkhand's #Hazaribagh during crossing a bridge, a day earlier.
Was it #Ghost, #Alien or anything else?
#AlienInHazaribagh
#alien2021
Extraterrestrial alienAlien monster #Jharkhand #Ghostinjharkhand #hamidmir"
https://twitter.com/Rahemat_99/status/1399361545000263683?s=20
Apparently the bikers hang back because they're scared. Can't blame them. My guess is this is a morbidly emaciated person close to death- or the whole thing is fake? - but it's superbly spooky0 -
Reporting from the vaccine rollout at Twickenham stadium and the NHS has just confirmed that anyone over 18 can turn up and get a jab as they want to avoid any wastage. Closes at 8pm tonight. https://twitter.com/AnnaCollinson/status/1399370460924723209/video/13
-
It’s interesting to note that Israel has done very few vaccinations since about the middle of April. They’re stuck at about 80% of the adult population. Overtaken now by UAE overall, where it’s becoming increasingly difficult to live and work without being jabbed.AnExileinD4 said:
Is the Israeli public keen on a range of continuing restrictions?rcs1000 said:Yesterday, Israel has just five new covid cases.
I felt it was important to share that statistic, because (a) they are only a little more vaccinated than we are, and (b) are now when welcoming tourists (assuming they are double vaccinated).
Does the Israeli media go out of its way to have the local equivalent of Fake SAGE on permanent repeat?
Do scientists advising the Israeli government continually give their own opinions (differing from consensus guidance) “on a personal basis”?
Are behaviours with respect to COVID really quite so politicised? “We must do this to own Netanyahu”?
0 -
I presume bulk of those are Haredi Jews refusing to take it? They make up about 15% of the population.Sandpit said:
It’s interesting to note that Israel has done very few vaccinations since about the middle of April. They’re stuck at about 80% of the adult population. Overtaken now by UAE overall, where it’s becoming increasingly difficult to live and work without being jabbed.AnExileinD4 said:
Is the Israeli public keen on a range of continuing restrictions?rcs1000 said:Yesterday, Israel has just five new covid cases.
I felt it was important to share that statistic, because (a) they are only a little more vaccinated than we are, and (b) are now when welcoming tourists (assuming they are double vaccinated).
Does the Israeli media go out of its way to have the local equivalent of Fake SAGE on permanent repeat?
Do scientists advising the Israeli government continually give their own opinions (differing from consensus guidance) “on a personal basis”?
Are behaviours with respect to COVID really quite so politicised? “We must do this to own Netanyahu”?0 -
Aren’t UAE having to do everyone again because they based their programme on the Chinese jab with very low efficacy?Sandpit said:
It’s interesting to note that Israel has done very few vaccinations since about the middle of April. They’re stuck at about 80% of the adult population. Overtaken now by UAE overall, where it’s becoming increasingly difficult to live and work without being jabbed.AnExileinD4 said:
Is the Israeli public keen on a range of continuing restrictions?rcs1000 said:Yesterday, Israel has just five new covid cases.
I felt it was important to share that statistic, because (a) they are only a little more vaccinated than we are, and (b) are now when welcoming tourists (assuming they are double vaccinated).
Does the Israeli media go out of its way to have the local equivalent of Fake SAGE on permanent repeat?
Do scientists advising the Israeli government continually give their own opinions (differing from consensus guidance) “on a personal basis”?
Are behaviours with respect to COVID really quite so politicised? “We must do this to own Netanyahu”?0 -
That’s my understanding, yes. Orthodox Jews quite anti-vax.FrancisUrquhart said:
I presume bulk of those are Haredi Jews refusing to take it? They make up about 15% of the population.Sandpit said:
It’s interesting to note that Israel has done very few vaccinations since about the middle of April. They’re stuck at about 80% of the adult population. Overtaken now by UAE overall, where it’s becoming increasingly difficult to live and work without being jabbed.AnExileinD4 said:
Is the Israeli public keen on a range of continuing restrictions?rcs1000 said:Yesterday, Israel has just five new covid cases.
I felt it was important to share that statistic, because (a) they are only a little more vaccinated than we are, and (b) are now when welcoming tourists (assuming they are double vaccinated).
Does the Israeli media go out of its way to have the local equivalent of Fake SAGE on permanent repeat?
Do scientists advising the Israeli government continually give their own opinions (differing from consensus guidance) “on a personal basis”?
Are behaviours with respect to COVID really quite so politicised? “We must do this to own Netanyahu”?0 -
Chile and Uruguay cases are rising again sharply.....using the Chinese vaccine...they are surely having to go round again.alex_ said:
Aren’t UAE having to do everyone again because they based their programme on the Chinese jab with very low efficacy?Sandpit said:
It’s interesting to note that Israel has done very few vaccinations since about the middle of April. They’re stuck at about 80% of the adult population. Overtaken now by UAE overall, where it’s becoming increasingly difficult to live and work without being jabbed.AnExileinD4 said:
Is the Israeli public keen on a range of continuing restrictions?rcs1000 said:Yesterday, Israel has just five new covid cases.
I felt it was important to share that statistic, because (a) they are only a little more vaccinated than we are, and (b) are now when welcoming tourists (assuming they are double vaccinated).
Does the Israeli media go out of its way to have the local equivalent of Fake SAGE on permanent repeat?
Do scientists advising the Israeli government continually give their own opinions (differing from consensus guidance) “on a personal basis”?
Are behaviours with respect to COVID really quite so politicised? “We must do this to own Netanyahu”?
The first mini wave 6 weeks ago was put down to youngsters / people not waiting long enough, now another wave....0 -
There’s split here between Sinopharm and Pfizer vaccines. There’s going to be an Autumn booster for some of the Sinopharm recipients, six months after their initial jabs. They’re advising people to get antibody tests after six months, and to take a third vaccine based on the result, they reckon only 10% or so will need it.alex_ said:
Aren’t UAE having to do everyone again because they based their programme on the Chinese jab with very low efficacy?Sandpit said:
It’s interesting to note that Israel has done very few vaccinations since about the middle of April. They’re stuck at about 80% of the adult population. Overtaken now by UAE overall, where it’s becoming increasingly difficult to live and work without being jabbed.AnExileinD4 said:
Is the Israeli public keen on a range of continuing restrictions?rcs1000 said:Yesterday, Israel has just five new covid cases.
I felt it was important to share that statistic, because (a) they are only a little more vaccinated than we are, and (b) are now when welcoming tourists (assuming they are double vaccinated).
Does the Israeli media go out of its way to have the local equivalent of Fake SAGE on permanent repeat?
Do scientists advising the Israeli government continually give their own opinions (differing from consensus guidance) “on a personal basis”?
Are behaviours with respect to COVID really quite so politicised? “We must do this to own Netanyahu”?
It’s also worth noting that Sinopharm is now WHO approved - Sinovac is the really dud Chinese one, as Chile are finding out.0 -
Interesting counter-conspiratorial arguments to the lab leak theory.
https://twitter.com/PAstynome/status/1399151529098158082
If it was a lab leak, why did the Chinese do such a useless job of combatting it?
0 -
But what is Scottish education like, Mr L. I suspect it is similar to the French and the American style - very mechanical, lots of rote learning and not much imagination and creativity - in fact very similar to what Gove and his evil genius did their best to impose on England.DavidL said:I left school at the age of 16, at the end of year 5 in Scotland, and started University a week after my 17th birthday. I was bored of school by then and when I went to University they gave me a grant (those were the days) and a student Union card which allowed me to buy drink in most establishments (ditto).
I was, with hindsight, probably too young and too immature to make the best use of my first year but I was seriously bored of school and really wanted to do something else.
I don't think that I was that atypical. Many people, including those even less academically inclined than me, do not enjoy school and show precious little commitment to it. At the moment most of these end up doing some largely pointless college course which often reduces their employability given the very poor habits that college inculcates (poor attendance, no reward for effort (since everyone passes) and far too much downtime). I seriously question whether such people would benefit at all from 2 more years of compulsory schooling.
I am rather more taken with the argument that we start formal learning a bit soon but even if we accept that argument has merit I do not think that we should be adding years to the other end.
Good thread header though, thanks Richard.
If that is the case, I am not surprised that pupils there get bored very quickly.0 -
Probably a smaller proportion, quite soonFrancisUrquhart said:
I presume bulk of those are Haredi Jews refusing to take it? They make up about 15% of the population.Sandpit said:
It’s interesting to note that Israel has done very few vaccinations since about the middle of April. They’re stuck at about 80% of the adult population. Overtaken now by UAE overall, where it’s becoming increasingly difficult to live and work without being jabbed.AnExileinD4 said:
Is the Israeli public keen on a range of continuing restrictions?rcs1000 said:Yesterday, Israel has just five new covid cases.
I felt it was important to share that statistic, because (a) they are only a little more vaccinated than we are, and (b) are now when welcoming tourists (assuming they are double vaccinated).
Does the Israeli media go out of its way to have the local equivalent of Fake SAGE on permanent repeat?
Do scientists advising the Israeli government continually give their own opinions (differing from consensus guidance) “on a personal basis”?
Are behaviours with respect to COVID really quite so politicised? “We must do this to own Netanyahu”?
It's going to be an interesting test for the anti-vaxxers, when it becomes clear that non-vaccinated people are getting sick and dying in large numbers around the world, and the vaccinated are generally OK0 -
Is it known how many people in the UK (if any) have contracted Covid and died of it despite having been double vaccinated?alex_ said:
133 admitted. 870 in total. The number admitted in the seven days to 25th May exactly equals the number currently confined. Of course there won’t be complete overlap, but it does suggest pretty high turnover which might indicates lots of people with a positive test and mild symptoms presenting as a “precaution” and being discharged in a few days.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Richard Horton of the Lancet said this morning that on the 12th January 4,500 plus were in hospital and on the 25th May just 133alex_ said:
Does seem a bit strange that hospitalisation numbers don’t appear to have been updated for a week. I know that’s often the case locally, but I thought the national numbers were normally more regular (even if necessarily incomplete)?Big_G_NorthWales said:
We need hospitalisation numbers, vaccine status of patients, deaths and vaccinated numbers dailyFrancisUrquhart said:On 31 May, 3,383 new cases and 1 death within 28 days of a positive test were reported across the UK.
I wonder why they are not being provided
Nothing else matters
This is why we need these numbers, together with the vaccination status of those in hospital2 -
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/28/two-people-have-died-indian-variant-full-vaccination/kinabalu said:
Is it known how many people in the UK (if any) have contracted Covid and died of it despite having been double vaccinated?alex_ said:
133 admitted. 870 in total. The number admitted in the seven days to 25th May exactly equals the number currently confined. Of course there won’t be complete overlap, but it does suggest pretty high turnover which might indicates lots of people with a positive test and mild symptoms presenting as a “precaution” and being discharged in a few days.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Richard Horton of the Lancet said this morning that on the 12th January 4,500 plus were in hospital and on the 25th May just 133alex_ said:
Does seem a bit strange that hospitalisation numbers don’t appear to have been updated for a week. I know that’s often the case locally, but I thought the national numbers were normally more regular (even if necessarily incomplete)?Big_G_NorthWales said:
We need hospitalisation numbers, vaccine status of patients, deaths and vaccinated numbers dailyFrancisUrquhart said:On 31 May, 3,383 new cases and 1 death within 28 days of a positive test were reported across the UK.
I wonder why they are not being provided
Nothing else matters
This is why we need these numbers, together with the vaccination status of those in hospital1 -
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