In the betting punters make it a 59% chance that Starmer will be out before the end of next year – p

OldKingCole said:

Stuartinromford said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Carnyx said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Carnyx said:

Interesting explanation of CCJs as applied to PMs - new to me anyway (happily)

https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1392491856936775685

"A default judgment/CCJ is rarely about being skint - as there are ways of heading off a CCJ even if skint, as long as you deal with the claim promptly. So unless this a prank or invalid service, a default CCJ here speaks to disorganisation at Johnson's end"

And Mr A G adds

"If a cockup, then it would mean 10 Downing Street/Johnson's office/Johnson missed following correspondence:

- letter before claim/final demand
- Claim Form from Court
- copy of CCJ itself

If the latter two slipped through, then serious questions about how post dealt with"

I am fully see Boris getting the letters, putting them to one side to deal with after.....and then forgetting.

Obviously he is massively disorganized at the best of times, but watching the vaccine documentary you got a glimpse into the hours been kept by government ministers e.g. Important meetings regarding vaccine funding starting (by design) at 8pm on a Friday night, because that is the only time they could fit it in.

I quite liked this theory;
https://twitter.com/rbrwr/status/1392488158667984897?s=19

"Thank you for your letter to the Prime Minister about your COUNTY COURT JUDGMENT. Regrettably he is unable to answer every letter personally, but he is deeply concerned about COUNTY COURT JUDGMENT. Yours faithfully, Correspondence Secretary, No. 10"

Er..... er...... shouldn't said Correspondence Sec have seen at least some of the preceding letters?
As pointed out elsewhere, the envelopes do make it clear that there's a Very Important Document inside.

TheScreamingEagles said:

Floater said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

@Floater

Best thing to do is to get the official complaint at E.on 'deadlocked' then go to the ombudsman at OFGEM.

Depending on the situation, I might go for the nuclear option and make a complaint to the police about someone stealing your gas.

Once you have a police crime reference number then that really does put the ball in E.on's court, but so does deadlocking the complaint and taking it to OFGEM.

Cheers

Also, check your son's credit file every month, utility providers have a tendency to report late payments to the credit reference agencies, which screws up credit scores and can lead to CCJs.

Also make sure they don't try a but a CIFAS marker against's your son's name.

MaxPB said:

Casino_Royale said:

gealbhan said:

gealbhan said:

Casino_Royale said:

ping said:

4.2% inflation

And the fed are going to ignore it???!

The age of inflation returns.

Wonderful.

Wouldn’t sit very well with the age of pay freezes?

Corbyn mania was basically May the public face of your pay freeze, Corbyn says no to pay freeze. And that the age of no inflation.

If inflation comes back and stays at over 4% and there is pay restraint in the client state, regardless who the LOTO is the Tories chances of winning the next election will be less than zero.

I could see inflation being a black swan that knocks the Tories out of office in 2024 if it gets out of control.

I think it's something that overrides concerns on cultural/social and values matters, at least temporarily, as a sort of political Maslow hierarchy of needs.

However, it would need the Opposition to look and feel more credible first, but it is possible.

Nah, inflation will be the dog that didn't bark, at least here, sterling will cover up a lot of the issues globally as it has been artificially depressed for a few years and going to back to $1.50 will eat up a lot of the import price inflation.

Philip_Thompson said:

OldKingCole said:

Stuartinromford said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Carnyx said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Carnyx said:

Interesting explanation of CCJs as applied to PMs - new to me anyway (happily)

https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1392491856936775685

"A default judgment/CCJ is rarely about being skint - as there are ways of heading off a CCJ even if skint, as long as you deal with the claim promptly. So unless this a prank or invalid service, a default CCJ here speaks to disorganisation at Johnson's end"

And Mr A G adds

"If a cockup, then it would mean 10 Downing Street/Johnson's office/Johnson missed following correspondence:

- letter before claim/final demand
- Claim Form from Court
- copy of CCJ itself

If the latter two slipped through, then serious questions about how post dealt with"

I am fully see Boris getting the letters, putting them to one side to deal with after.....and then forgetting.

Obviously he is massively disorganized at the best of times, but watching the vaccine documentary you got a glimpse into the hours been kept by government ministers e.g. Important meetings regarding vaccine funding starting (by design) at 8pm on a Friday night, because that is the only time they could fit it in.

I quite liked this theory;
https://twitter.com/rbrwr/status/1392488158667984897?s=19

"Thank you for your letter to the Prime Minister about your COUNTY COURT JUDGMENT. Regrettably he is unable to answer every letter personally, but he is deeply concerned about COUNTY COURT JUDGMENT. Yours faithfully, Correspondence Secretary, No. 10"

Er..... er...... shouldn't said Correspondence Sec have seen at least some of the preceding letters?
As pointed out elsewhere, the envelopes do make it clear that there's a Very Important Document inside.

So do letters from PC World/Curry's trying to sell you a warranty.

So do charity letters seeking to raise money.

Floater said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Floater said:

OldKingCole said:

Floater said:

OK - I am royally pissed off and if anyone has any ideas I am all ears

E.on are my sons energy provider - I have mentioned that he has been running up some impossible bills

In last month he has allegedly run up 700 - his arrears were getting on for 2 grand (a complaint has been open for a while on how this amount can possibly be used).

An engineer came out agreed he couldn't run that up living on his own in a 2 bed flat and said he suspected someone else was drawing his supply too. (This is the second person contracted by Eon to say this)

Eon manager subsequently rang my son and agreed to accept a certain payment and agreed my son could leave them for another supplier - he has I think 4 complaints open with Eon going back nearly a year for the first one - none resolved.

He hit a snag with paying them and a compromise was agreed (so, multiple calls on this) - this agreement was kept by us. (Delay was literally 48 hours tops)

He has had debt collection on the phone today asking for full payment - he referred them to his agreement with manager and she said she could not find record of the phone call and in any event the person who made the agreement was not entitled to do so.... (despite not knowing who it was )

This person said it was entirely possible to run up 700 a month on a 2 bed flat on his own (Like feck, I spend a fraction of that on a 5 bed place with a family in it)

When he pointed out that the engineer who came out said he could not and it needed further investigation and he was probably better placed to make that determination she claimed she knew better and then hung up on him.....

I tried 3 times to get details on how to escalate a complaint and they hung up on me 3 times. Then it took 50 minutes on one of those chat tools to finally just get an e mail address to make a written complaint to. They would not give me a way to escalate or a managers details - I had to threaten them with my mp and Ombudsman to get even that.

I said its almost like they don't want a proper record of what they are saying ..... (but I have screen shots of the chat)

He will hate me saying this - but he is dealing with some difficult health issues (cancer and severe kidney issues) plus he has mental health issues (bipolar) and this is making him ill with stress. I frankly am beyond furious, because he really does not need this (He and I have both told E.on this too)

As I say I'm mad and I will be helping son write to the general complaints line and I will contact our MP and Ombudsman with him but any other advice gratefully accepted -A friend mentioned Resover.co.uk - that looks like it might help - it even has a name within E.on to escalate to - which E.on just would not give me - which again just shows me they being deliberately uncooperative.

Dreadful. Have you tried Citizens Advice?

Not yet - but we we be contacting everyone we can think of

Your MP?

Yep -- might try my councillor too but might not really be in his area of things he can help with

OldKingCole said:

Floater said:

OK - I am royally pissed off and if anyone has any ideas I am all ears

E.on are my sons energy provider - I have mentioned that he has been running up some impossible bills

In last month he has allegedly run up 700 - his arrears were getting on for 2 grand (a complaint has been open for a while on how this amount can possibly be used).

An engineer came out agreed he couldn't run that up living on his own in a 2 bed flat and said he suspected someone else was drawing his supply too. (This is the second person contracted by Eon to say this)

Eon manager subsequently rang my son and agreed to accept a certain payment and agreed my son could leave them for another supplier - he has I think 4 complaints open with Eon going back nearly a year for the first one - none resolved.

He hit a snag with paying them and a compromise was agreed (so, multiple calls on this) - this agreement was kept by us. (Delay was literally 48 hours tops)

He has had debt collection on the phone today asking for full payment - he referred them to his agreement with manager and she said she could not find record of the phone call and in any event the person who made the agreement was not entitled to do so.... (despite not knowing who it was )

This person said it was entirely possible to run up 700 a month on a 2 bed flat on his own (Like feck, I spend a fraction of that on a 5 bed place with a family in it)

When he pointed out that the engineer who came out said he could not and it needed further investigation and he was probably better placed to make that determination she claimed she knew better and then hung up on him.....

I tried 3 times to get details on how to escalate a complaint and they hung up on me 3 times. Then it took 50 minutes on one of those chat tools to finally just get an e mail address to make a written complaint to. They would not give me a way to escalate or a managers details - I had to threaten them with my mp and Ombudsman to get even that.

I said its almost like they don't want a proper record of what they are saying ..... (but I have screen shots of the chat)

He will hate me saying this - but he is dealing with some difficult health issues (cancer and severe kidney issues) plus he has mental health issues (bipolar) and this is making him ill with stress. I frankly am beyond furious, because he really does not need this (He and I have both told E.on this too)

As I say I'm mad and I will be helping son write to the general complaints line and I will contact our MP and Ombudsman with him but any other advice gratefully accepted -A friend mentioned Resover.co.uk - that looks like it might help - it even has a name within E.on to escalate to - which E.on just would not give me - which again just shows me they being deliberately uncooperative.

Dreadful. Have you tried Citizens Advice?

Casino_Royale said:

MaxPB said:

Casino_Royale said:

gealbhan said:

gealbhan said:

Casino_Royale said:

ping said:

4.2% inflation

And the fed are going to ignore it???!

The age of inflation returns.

Wonderful.

Wouldn’t sit very well with the age of pay freezes?

Corbyn mania was basically May the public face of your pay freeze, Corbyn says no to pay freeze. And that the age of no inflation.

If inflation comes back and stays at over 4% and there is pay restraint in the client state, regardless who the LOTO is the Tories chances of winning the next election will be less than zero.

I could see inflation being a black swan that knocks the Tories out of office in 2024 if it gets out of control.

I think it's something that overrides concerns on cultural/social and values matters, at least temporarily, as a sort of political Maslow hierarchy of needs.

However, it would need the Opposition to look and feel more credible first, but it is possible.

Nah, inflation will be the dog that didn't bark, at least here, sterling will cover up a lot of the issues globally as it has been artificially depressed for a few years and going to back to $1.50 will eat up a lot of the import price inflation.

I hope you're right, but none of us know how exactly this will play out and that's why I'm sticking to my T-18 months rule of betting on GEs.

Of course, that doesn't cover a snap election - but we'll be able to smell that on here if it's coming, because that's what we do.

Floater said:

OK - I am royally pissed off and if anyone has any ideas I am all ears

E.on are my sons energy provider - I have mentioned that he has been running up some impossible bills

In last month he has allegedly run up 700 - his arrears were getting on for 2 grand (a complaint has been open for a while on how this amount can possibly be used).

An engineer came out agreed he couldn't run that up living on his own in a 2 bed flat and said he suspected someone else was drawing his supply too. (This is the second person contracted by Eon to say this)

Eon manager subsequently rang my son and agreed to accept a certain payment and agreed my son could leave them for another supplier - he has I think 4 complaints open with Eon going back nearly a year for the first one - none resolved.

He hit a snag with paying them and a compromise was agreed (so, multiple calls on this) - this agreement was kept by us. (Delay was literally 48 hours tops)

He has had debt collection on the phone today asking for full payment - he referred them to his agreement with manager and she said she could not find record of the phone call and in any event the person who made the agreement was not entitled to do so.... (despite not knowing who it was )

This person said it was entirely possible to run up 700 a month on a 2 bed flat on his own (Like feck, I spend a fraction of that on a 5 bed place with a family in it)

When he pointed out that the engineer who came out said he could not and it needed further investigation and he was probably better placed to make that determination she claimed she knew better and then hung up on him.....

I tried 3 times to get details on how to escalate a complaint and they hung up on me 3 times. Then it took 50 minutes on one of those chat tools to finally just get an e mail address to make a written complaint to. They would not give me a way to escalate or a managers details - I had to threaten them with my mp and Ombudsman to get even that.

I said its almost like they don't want a proper record of what they are saying ..... (but I have screen shots of the chat)

He will hate me saying this - but he is dealing with some difficult health issues (cancer and severe kidney issues) plus he has mental health issues (bipolar) and this is making him ill with stress. I frankly am beyond furious, because he really does not need this (He and I have both told E.on this too)

As I say I'm mad and I will be helping son write to the general complaints line and I will contact our MP and Ombudsman with him but any other advice gratefully accepted -A friend mentioned Resover.co.uk - that looks like it might help - it even has a name within E.on to escalate to - which E.on just would not give me - which again just shows me they being deliberately uncooperative.

Philip_Thompson said:

OldKingCole said:

Stuartinromford said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Carnyx said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Carnyx said:

Interesting explanation of CCJs as applied to PMs - new to me anyway (happily)

https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1392491856936775685

"A default judgment/CCJ is rarely about being skint - as there are ways of heading off a CCJ even if skint, as long as you deal with the claim promptly. So unless this a prank or invalid service, a default CCJ here speaks to disorganisation at Johnson's end"

And Mr A G adds

"If a cockup, then it would mean 10 Downing Street/Johnson's office/Johnson missed following correspondence:

- letter before claim/final demand
- Claim Form from Court
- copy of CCJ itself

If the latter two slipped through, then serious questions about how post dealt with"

I am fully see Boris getting the letters, putting them to one side to deal with after.....and then forgetting.

Obviously he is massively disorganized at the best of times, but watching the vaccine documentary you got a glimpse into the hours been kept by government ministers e.g. Important meetings regarding vaccine funding starting (by design) at 8pm on a Friday night, because that is the only time they could fit it in.

I quite liked this theory;
https://twitter.com/rbrwr/status/1392488158667984897?s=19

"Thank you for your letter to the Prime Minister about your COUNTY COURT JUDGMENT. Regrettably he is unable to answer every letter personally, but he is deeply concerned about COUNTY COURT JUDGMENT. Yours faithfully, Correspondence Secretary, No. 10"

Er..... er...... shouldn't said Correspondence Sec have seen at least some of the preceding letters?
As pointed out elsewhere, the envelopes do make it clear that there's a Very Important Document inside.

So do letters from PC World/Curry's trying to sell you a warranty.

So do charity letters seeking to raise money.

Leon said:

Floater said:

OldKingCole said:

Floater said:

OK - I am royally pissed off and if anyone has any ideas I am all ears

E.on are my sons energy provider - I have mentioned that he has been running up some impossible bills

In last month he has allegedly run up 700 - his arrears were getting on for 2 grand (a complaint has been open for a while on how this amount can possibly be used).

An engineer came out agreed he couldn't run that up living on his own in a 2 bed flat and said he suspected someone else was drawing his supply too. (This is the second person contracted by Eon to say this)

Eon manager subsequently rang my son and agreed to accept a certain payment and agreed my son could leave them for another supplier - he has I think 4 complaints open with Eon going back nearly a year for the first one - none resolved.

He hit a snag with paying them and a compromise was agreed (so, multiple calls on this) - this agreement was kept by us. (Delay was literally 48 hours tops)

He has had debt collection on the phone today asking for full payment - he referred them to his agreement with manager and she said she could not find record of the phone call and in any event the person who made the agreement was not entitled to do so.... (despite not knowing who it was )

This person said it was entirely possible to run up 700 a month on a 2 bed flat on his own (Like feck, I spend a fraction of that on a 5 bed place with a family in it)

When he pointed out that the engineer who came out said he could not and it needed further investigation and he was probably better placed to make that determination she claimed she knew better and then hung up on him.....

I tried 3 times to get details on how to escalate a complaint and they hung up on me 3 times. Then it took 50 minutes on one of those chat tools to finally just get an e mail address to make a written complaint to. They would not give me a way to escalate or a managers details - I had to threaten them with my mp and Ombudsman to get even that.

I said its almost like they don't want a proper record of what they are saying ..... (but I have screen shots of the chat)

He will hate me saying this - but he is dealing with some difficult health issues (cancer and severe kidney issues) plus he has mental health issues (bipolar) and this is making him ill with stress. I frankly am beyond furious, because he really does not need this (He and I have both told E.on this too)

As I say I'm mad and I will be helping son write to the general complaints line and I will contact our MP and Ombudsman with him but any other advice gratefully accepted -A friend mentioned Resover.co.uk - that looks like it might help - it even has a name within E.on to escalate to - which E.on just would not give me - which again just shows me they being deliberately uncooperative.

Dreadful. Have you tried Citizens Advice?

Not yet - but we we be contacting everyone we can think of

Kinabalu is right. The media can be really helpful. Source a friendly journalist who can ring their press office and say he or she is writing about your story, and would they like to comment? That often puts a rocket booster under them

A pal of mine had a real and unpleasant problem with Google, a few years ago. Try and get Google to respond to a normal complaint - it's impossible. They are so huge, unwieldy and indifferent. You can't even find anyone to talk to

So he found a journo friend who rang the Google UK press office and his year-old problem was sorted in a day

kinabalu said:

@Floater

Dreadful sounding affair. I once had something similar with British Gas and some of the interactions had me shaking with rage at times. Got there in the end but it took ages.

There's the media. People write in to newspapers and if their letter appeals and gets selected for the "troubleshooter" column it often unlocks a resolution PLUS a cash sum as apology (for PR).

NickPalmer said:

I see that, in keeping with the acute concern felt by many about Scottish independence, the thread is full of discussion about the by-election in Scotland TOMORROW.

Er, not.

Batley, Amersham, interesting future by-elections. But, without wanting to sound all SNPish, why does nobody care about Scotland?

Leon said:

Floater said:

OldKingCole said:

Floater said:

OK - I am royally pissed off and if anyone has any ideas I am all ears

E.on are my sons energy provider - I have mentioned that he has been running up some impossible bills

In last month he has allegedly run up 700 - his arrears were getting on for 2 grand (a complaint has been open for a while on how this amount can possibly be used).

An engineer came out agreed he couldn't run that up living on his own in a 2 bed flat and said he suspected someone else was drawing his supply too. (This is the second person contracted by Eon to say this)

Eon manager subsequently rang my son and agreed to accept a certain payment and agreed my son could leave them for another supplier - he has I think 4 complaints open with Eon going back nearly a year for the first one - none resolved.

He hit a snag with paying them and a compromise was agreed (so, multiple calls on this) - this agreement was kept by us. (Delay was literally 48 hours tops)

He has had debt collection on the phone today asking for full payment - he referred them to his agreement with manager and she said she could not find record of the phone call and in any event the person who made the agreement was not entitled to do so.... (despite not knowing who it was )

This person said it was entirely possible to run up 700 a month on a 2 bed flat on his own (Like feck, I spend a fraction of that on a 5 bed place with a family in it)

When he pointed out that the engineer who came out said he could not and it needed further investigation and he was probably better placed to make that determination she claimed she knew better and then hung up on him.....

I tried 3 times to get details on how to escalate a complaint and they hung up on me 3 times. Then it took 50 minutes on one of those chat tools to finally just get an e mail address to make a written complaint to. They would not give me a way to escalate or a managers details - I had to threaten them with my mp and Ombudsman to get even that.

I said its almost like they don't want a proper record of what they are saying ..... (but I have screen shots of the chat)

He will hate me saying this - but he is dealing with some difficult health issues (cancer and severe kidney issues) plus he has mental health issues (bipolar) and this is making him ill with stress. I frankly am beyond furious, because he really does not need this (He and I have both told E.on this too)

As I say I'm mad and I will be helping son write to the general complaints line and I will contact our MP and Ombudsman with him but any other advice gratefully accepted -A friend mentioned Resover.co.uk - that looks like it might help - it even has a name within E.on to escalate to - which E.on just would not give me - which again just shows me they being deliberately uncooperative.

Dreadful. Have you tried Citizens Advice?

Not yet - but we we be contacting everyone we can think of

Kinabalu is right. The media can be really helpful. Source a friendly journalist who can ring their press office and say he or she is writing about your story, and would they like to comment? That often puts a rocket booster under them

A pal of mine had a real and unpleasant problem with Google, a few years ago. Try and get Google to respond to a normal complaint - it's impossible. They are so huge, unwieldy and indifferent. You can't even find anyone to talk to

So he found a journo friend who rang the Google UK press office and his year-old problem was sorted in a day

TOPPING said:

Floater said:

OK - I am royally pissed off and if anyone has any ideas I am all ears

E.on are my sons energy provider - I have mentioned that he has been running up some impossible bills

In last month he has allegedly run up 700 - his arrears were getting on for 2 grand (a complaint has been open for a while on how this amount can possibly be used).

An engineer came out agreed he couldn't run that up living on his own in a 2 bed flat and said he suspected someone else was drawing his supply too. (This is the second person contracted by Eon to say this)

Eon manager subsequently rang my son and agreed to accept a certain payment and agreed my son could leave them for another supplier - he has I think 4 complaints open with Eon going back nearly a year for the first one - none resolved.

He hit a snag with paying them and a compromise was agreed (so, multiple calls on this) - this agreement was kept by us. (Delay was literally 48 hours tops)

He has had debt collection on the phone today asking for full payment - he referred them to his agreement with manager and she said she could not find record of the phone call and in any event the person who made the agreement was not entitled to do so.... (despite not knowing who it was )

This person said it was entirely possible to run up 700 a month on a 2 bed flat on his own (Like feck, I spend a fraction of that on a 5 bed place with a family in it)

When he pointed out that the engineer who came out said he could not and it needed further investigation and he was probably better placed to make that determination she claimed she knew better and then hung up on him.....

I tried 3 times to get details on how to escalate a complaint and they hung up on me 3 times. Then it took 50 minutes on one of those chat tools to finally just get an e mail address to make a written complaint to. They would not give me a way to escalate or a managers details - I had to threaten them with my mp and Ombudsman to get even that.

I said its almost like they don't want a proper record of what they are saying ..... (but I have screen shots of the chat)

He will hate me saying this - but he is dealing with some difficult health issues (cancer and severe kidney issues) plus he has mental health issues (bipolar) and this is making him ill with stress. I frankly am beyond furious, because he really does not need this (He and I have both told E.on this too)

As I say I'm mad and I will be helping son write to the general complaints line and I will contact our MP and Ombudsman with him but any other advice gratefully accepted -A friend mentioned Resover.co.uk - that looks like it might help - it even has a name within E.on to escalate to - which E.on just would not give me - which again just shows me they being deliberately uncooperative.

Be patient and divorce the complaints process from your experiences. Know that as you speak to each and every unhelpful employee that will add substance to the complaint.

If you can, continue to try to find out the process of complaints for E.On.

There seems to be info here, which I'm sure you've seen.

https://www.eonenergy.com/contact/complaints.html

I see they don't have an email complaints address. So write to them at the address given. A hassle of course but you need to put in an audit trail.

Inform them at each turn that you are not satisfied with their response and that you would like to escalate further. Keep doing this until either they resolve the issue or you go to the Ombudsman.

I would definitely end up at the Ombudsman but I would put that paper trail in beforehand.

Floater said:

malcolmg said:

OldKingCole said:

Floater said:

OK - I am royally pissed off and if anyone has any ideas I am all ears

E.on are my sons energy provider - I have mentioned that he has been running up some impossible bills

In last month he has allegedly run up 700 - his arrears were getting on for 2 grand (a complaint has been open for a while on how this amount can possibly be used).

An engineer came out agreed he couldn't run that up living on his own in a 2 bed flat and said he suspected someone else was drawing his supply too. (This is the second person contracted by Eon to say this)

Eon manager subsequently rang my son and agreed to accept a certain payment and agreed my son could leave them for another supplier - he has I think 4 complaints open with Eon going back nearly a year for the first one - none resolved.

He hit a snag with paying them and a compromise was agreed (so, multiple calls on this) - this agreement was kept by us. (Delay was literally 48 hours tops)

He has had debt collection on the phone today asking for full payment - he referred them to his agreement with manager and she said she could not find record of the phone call and in any event the person who made the agreement was not entitled to do so.... (despite not knowing who it was )

This person said it was entirely possible to run up 700 a month on a 2 bed flat on his own (Like feck, I spend a fraction of that on a 5 bed place with a family in it)

When he pointed out that the engineer who came out said he could not and it needed further investigation and he was probably better placed to make that determination she claimed she knew better and then hung up on him.....

I tried 3 times to get details on how to escalate a complaint and they hung up on me 3 times. Then it took 50 minutes on one of those chat tools to finally just get an e mail address to make a written complaint to. They would not give me a way to escalate or a managers details - I had to threaten them with my mp and Ombudsman to get even that.

I said its almost like they don't want a proper record of what they are saying ..... (but I have screen shots of the chat)

He will hate me saying this - but he is dealing with some difficult health issues (cancer and severe kidney issues) plus he has mental health issues (bipolar) and this is making him ill with stress. I frankly am beyond furious, because he really does not need this (He and I have both told E.on this too)

As I say I'm mad and I will be helping son write to the general complaints line and I will contact our MP and Ombudsman with him but any other advice gratefully accepted -A friend mentioned Resover.co.uk - that looks like it might help - it even has a name within E.on to escalate to - which E.on just would not give me - which again just shows me they being deliberately uncooperative.

Dreadful. Have you tried Citizens Advice?

Have you tried switching everything off and checking the meter every hour from morning till night and then try putting on individual items and log every hour etc. Meter must be spinning pretty fast to get that high.

it spins with literally everything turned off - even the fridge .........

TheScreamingEagles said:

Floater said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Floater said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Floater said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

@Floater

Best thing to do is to get the official complaint at E.on 'deadlocked' then go to the ombudsman at OFGEM.

Depending on the situation, I might go for the nuclear option and make a complaint to the police about someone stealing your gas.

Once you have a police crime reference number then that really does put the ball in E.on's court, but so does deadlocking the complaint and taking it to OFGEM.

Cheers

Also, check your son's credit file every month, utility providers have a tendency to report late payments to the credit reference agencies, which screws up credit scores and can lead to CCJs.

Also make sure they don't try a but a CIFAS marker against's your son's name.

I think I mentioned they threatened that( if he didn't make a payment notwithstanding the ongoing issue) - hence some of the stress - would hate for him to be in same basket as Boris

Yup, but a CIFAS marker is much much worse than a CCJ, it means all your bank accounts and credit accounts get closed within 60 days.

Ah - his bank account has been closed - but he said they said that as through money laundering fears (he sold some dogecoin and missed an e mail asking about a couple of transactions (he thought it was a scam so did not reply)

He said they transferring his funds to my account - So I guess I need to speak to them too

Trouble is he has been in a manic episode and he just cannot take detail in when he is like that

Right, you and he need to do a SAR with CIFAS, you cannot underestimate the damage a CIFAS marker does to someone, and anyone who they have a financial relationship with.

https://www.cifas.org.uk/contact-us/subject-access-request/subject-access-request-form

kle4 said:

Leon said:

Floater said:

OldKingCole said:

Floater said:

OK - I am royally pissed off and if anyone has any ideas I am all ears

E.on are my sons energy provider - I have mentioned that he has been running up some impossible bills

In last month he has allegedly run up 700 - his arrears were getting on for 2 grand (a complaint has been open for a while on how this amount can possibly be used).

An engineer came out agreed he couldn't run that up living on his own in a 2 bed flat and said he suspected someone else was drawing his supply too. (This is the second person contracted by Eon to say this)

Eon manager subsequently rang my son and agreed to accept a certain payment and agreed my son could leave them for another supplier - he has I think 4 complaints open with Eon going back nearly a year for the first one - none resolved.

He hit a snag with paying them and a compromise was agreed (so, multiple calls on this) - this agreement was kept by us. (Delay was literally 48 hours tops)

He has had debt collection on the phone today asking for full payment - he referred them to his agreement with manager and she said she could not find record of the phone call and in any event the person who made the agreement was not entitled to do so.... (despite not knowing who it was )

This person said it was entirely possible to run up 700 a month on a 2 bed flat on his own (Like feck, I spend a fraction of that on a 5 bed place with a family in it)

When he pointed out that the engineer who came out said he could not and it needed further investigation and he was probably better placed to make that determination she claimed she knew better and then hung up on him.....

I tried 3 times to get details on how to escalate a complaint and they hung up on me 3 times. Then it took 50 minutes on one of those chat tools to finally just get an e mail address to make a written complaint to. They would not give me a way to escalate or a managers details - I had to threaten them with my mp and Ombudsman to get even that.

I said its almost like they don't want a proper record of what they are saying ..... (but I have screen shots of the chat)

He will hate me saying this - but he is dealing with some difficult health issues (cancer and severe kidney issues) plus he has mental health issues (bipolar) and this is making him ill with stress. I frankly am beyond furious, because he really does not need this (He and I have both told E.on this too)

As I say I'm mad and I will be helping son write to the general complaints line and I will contact our MP and Ombudsman with him but any other advice gratefully accepted -A friend mentioned Resover.co.uk - that looks like it might help - it even has a name within E.on to escalate to - which E.on just would not give me - which again just shows me they being deliberately uncooperative.

Dreadful. Have you tried Citizens Advice?

Not yet - but we we be contacting everyone we can think of

Kinabalu is right. The media can be really helpful. Source a friendly journalist who can ring their press office and say he or she is writing about your story, and would they like to comment? That often puts a rocket booster under them

A pal of mine had a real and unpleasant problem with Google, a few years ago. Try and get Google to respond to a normal complaint - it's impossible. They are so huge, unwieldy and indifferent. You can't even find anyone to talk to

So he found a journo friend who rang the Google UK press office and his year-old problem was sorted in a day

Threats to go to the media only work if the press actually do follow through. The number of times people say they will go to the press and either don't, or the press don't run with it, vastly outweighs the times it works, and councils/organisations know that.

Floater said:

rcs1000 said:

@Floater

Was your son mining Dogecoin? In which case, the electricity bill might be very genuine.

no - he bought some and then sold it at a big profit

OldKingCole said:

kle4 said:

Leon said:

Floater said:

OldKingCole said:

Floater said:

OK - I am royally pissed off and if anyone has any ideas I am all ears

E.on are my sons energy provider - I have mentioned that he has been running up some impossible bills

In last month he has allegedly run up 700 - his arrears were getting on for 2 grand (a complaint has been open for a while on how this amount can possibly be used).

An engineer came out agreed he couldn't run that up living on his own in a 2 bed flat and said he suspected someone else was drawing his supply too. (This is the second person contracted by Eon to say this)

Eon manager subsequently rang my son and agreed to accept a certain payment and agreed my son could leave them for another supplier - he has I think 4 complaints open with Eon going back nearly a year for the first one - none resolved.

He hit a snag with paying them and a compromise was agreed (so, multiple calls on this) - this agreement was kept by us. (Delay was literally 48 hours tops)

He has had debt collection on the phone today asking for full payment - he referred them to his agreement with manager and she said she could not find record of the phone call and in any event the person who made the agreement was not entitled to do so.... (despite not knowing who it was )

This person said it was entirely possible to run up 700 a month on a 2 bed flat on his own (Like feck, I spend a fraction of that on a 5 bed place with a family in it)

When he pointed out that the engineer who came out said he could not and it needed further investigation and he was probably better placed to make that determination she claimed she knew better and then hung up on him.....

I tried 3 times to get details on how to escalate a complaint and they hung up on me 3 times. Then it took 50 minutes on one of those chat tools to finally just get an e mail address to make a written complaint to. They would not give me a way to escalate or a managers details - I had to threaten them with my mp and Ombudsman to get even that.

I said its almost like they don't want a proper record of what they are saying ..... (but I have screen shots of the chat)

He will hate me saying this - but he is dealing with some difficult health issues (cancer and severe kidney issues) plus he has mental health issues (bipolar) and this is making him ill with stress. I frankly am beyond furious, because he really does not need this (He and I have both told E.on this too)

As I say I'm mad and I will be helping son write to the general complaints line and I will contact our MP and Ombudsman with him but any other advice gratefully accepted -A friend mentioned Resover.co.uk - that looks like it might help - it even has a name within E.on to escalate to - which E.on just would not give me - which again just shows me they being deliberately uncooperative.

Dreadful. Have you tried Citizens Advice?

Not yet - but we we be contacting everyone we can think of

Kinabalu is right. The media can be really helpful. Source a friendly journalist who can ring their press office and say he or she is writing about your story, and would they like to comment? That often puts a rocket booster under them

A pal of mine had a real and unpleasant problem with Google, a few years ago. Try and get Google to respond to a normal complaint - it's impossible. They are so huge, unwieldy and indifferent. You can't even find anyone to talk to

So he found a journo friend who rang the Google UK press office and his year-old problem was sorted in a day

Threats to go to the media only work if the press actually do follow through. The number of times people say they will go to the press and either don't, or the press don't run with it, vastly outweighs the times it works, and councils/organisations know that.

But neither Floater not E.on will know until they don’t!

HYUFD said:

New 2024 GOP primary poll minus Trump

DeSantis 35%
Cruz 10%
Romney 10%
Pence 10%
Haley 6%
https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1392523156645089282?s=20

TheScreamingEagles said:

Floater said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Floater said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Floater said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Floater said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

@Floater

Best thing to do is to get the official complaint at E.on 'deadlocked' then go to the ombudsman at OFGEM.

Depending on the situation, I might go for the nuclear option and make a complaint to the police about someone stealing your gas.

Once you have a police crime reference number then that really does put the ball in E.on's court, but so does deadlocking the complaint and taking it to OFGEM.

Cheers

Also, check your son's credit file every month, utility providers have a tendency to report late payments to the credit reference agencies, which screws up credit scores and can lead to CCJs.

Also make sure they don't try a but a CIFAS marker against's your son's name.

I think I mentioned they threatened that( if he didn't make a payment notwithstanding the ongoing issue) - hence some of the stress - would hate for him to be in same basket as Boris

Yup, but a CIFAS marker is much much worse than a CCJ, it means all your bank accounts and credit accounts get closed within 60 days.

Ah - his bank account has been closed - but he said they said that as through money laundering fears (he sold some dogecoin and missed an e mail asking about a couple of transactions (he thought it was a scam so did not reply)

He said they transferring his funds to my account - So I guess I need to speak to them too

Trouble is he has been in a manic episode and he just cannot take detail in when he is like that

Right, you and he need to do a SAR with CIFAS, you cannot underestimate the damage a CIFAS marker does to someone, and anyone who they have a financial relationship with.

https://www.cifas.org.uk/contact-us/subject-access-request/subject-access-request-form

When you say financial relationship - I pay his rent and help out on other bills - is that enough to drag me in - I work in Insurance so you know what a bad rating might mean for me

Have you applied for any joint credit products/guarantor/joint accounts together?

Then there is the potential for it to get messy.

They can on occasions close accounts for those people have paid into/money paid to from the closed account.

If he's lived at the same address with you in the last six years then there might be a connection but not a relationship.

CIFAS markers are a Kafkaesque world.

Banks go OTT in my experience.

Malmesbury said:

Leon said:

Floater said:

OldKingCole said:

Floater said:

OK - I am royally pissed off and if anyone has any ideas I am all ears

E.on are my sons energy provider - I have mentioned that he has been running up some impossible bills

In last month he has allegedly run up 700 - his arrears were getting on for 2 grand (a complaint has been open for a while on how this amount can possibly be used).

An engineer came out agreed he couldn't run that up living on his own in a 2 bed flat and said he suspected someone else was drawing his supply too. (This is the second person contracted by Eon to say this)

Eon manager subsequently rang my son and agreed to accept a certain payment and agreed my son could leave them for another supplier - he has I think 4 complaints open with Eon going back nearly a year for the first one - none resolved.

He hit a snag with paying them and a compromise was agreed (so, multiple calls on this) - this agreement was kept by us. (Delay was literally 48 hours tops)

He has had debt collection on the phone today asking for full payment - he referred them to his agreement with manager and she said she could not find record of the phone call and in any event the person who made the agreement was not entitled to do so.... (despite not knowing who it was )

This person said it was entirely possible to run up 700 a month on a 2 bed flat on his own (Like feck, I spend a fraction of that on a 5 bed place with a family in it)

When he pointed out that the engineer who came out said he could not and it needed further investigation and he was probably better placed to make that determination she claimed she knew better and then hung up on him.....

I tried 3 times to get details on how to escalate a complaint and they hung up on me 3 times. Then it took 50 minutes on one of those chat tools to finally just get an e mail address to make a written complaint to. They would not give me a way to escalate or a managers details - I had to threaten them with my mp and Ombudsman to get even that.

I said its almost like they don't want a proper record of what they are saying ..... (but I have screen shots of the chat)

He will hate me saying this - but he is dealing with some difficult health issues (cancer and severe kidney issues) plus he has mental health issues (bipolar) and this is making him ill with stress. I frankly am beyond furious, because he really does not need this (He and I have both told E.on this too)

As I say I'm mad and I will be helping son write to the general complaints line and I will contact our MP and Ombudsman with him but any other advice gratefully accepted -A friend mentioned Resover.co.uk - that looks like it might help - it even has a name within E.on to escalate to - which E.on just would not give me - which again just shows me they being deliberately uncooperative.

Dreadful. Have you tried Citizens Advice?

Not yet - but we we be contacting everyone we can think of

Kinabalu is right. The media can be really helpful. Source a friendly journalist who can ring their press office and say he or she is writing about your story, and would they like to comment? That often puts a rocket booster under them

A pal of mine had a real and unpleasant problem with Google, a few years ago. Try and get Google to respond to a normal complaint - it's impossible. They are so huge, unwieldy and indifferent. You can't even find anyone to talk to

So he found a journo friend who rang the Google UK press office and his year-old problem was sorted in a day

The local council made a stupid political move over a playground (yes, really)

One of the locals, a journalist for a very respected publication, started politely asking people.

A week later the council found a serious 5 figure sum to totally reverse their idiocy.

Floater said:

rcs1000 said:

@Floater

Was your son mining Dogecoin? In which case, the electricity bill might be very genuine.

no - he bought some and then sold it at a big profit

rcs1000 said:

@Floater

Was your son mining Dogecoin? In which case, the electricity bill might be very genuine.

Richard_Tyndall said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

MaxPB said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

MaxPB said:

kingbongo said:

MaxPB said:

kingbongo said:

MaxPB said:

The commission economic predictions for the UK definitely have a touch of jilted ex syndrome. The city consensus is noticeably higher and factors in little to no brexit related reduction in GDP. I think it would be fairly embarrassing for them to come in at ~7.5% where the city consensus is for the UK, though. Additionally it looks like their projections are done on a nominal GDP calculation basis but the GDP itself is the output model as preferred by the ONS. Most of the city has caught up with this and it's why there is expected to be a big bounceback as schools return to normal and health output picks up as the NHS works through a huge backlog.

It's interesting reading the economics editor of Berlingske today explaining how the UK economy fared worst of all economies last year "Unlike Denmark" - the whole piece is tinged with a "bastard british have left us at the mercy of the Germans" vibe - apparently there may be some short term bounce back over the summer but by Autumn the warning klaxons will be going off and the full error of Brexit will become visible - I don't know if that will happen but reading the piece it's clear he really wants it too because the UK 'abandoned' Denmark.

Another bit of jilted ex syndrome. Goldman Sachs have got UK growth this year penciled in at 7.8% which recovers all of our GDP by the end of 2021 based on the measure they use.

Also, there is a solution to being left at the mercy of Germany. 🤷‍♂️

I can't tell you the grief I get over the UK leaving the EU, mostly because I don't participate in gleefully hoping it all goes horribly wrong and saying Boris Johnson is an idiot and the electorate were tricked - Danes are mostly now looking on and suffering major jilted ex syndrome. They HATE the idea Brexit might not be that big a deal economically to the UK.

Too much guardian reading and CNN watching I think. If there is a brexit effect, even in the short term, it is mostly going to be carried by the food/fishing industry because of EU border pedantry. Most of everything else will just get on with life. Speaking from my position in financial services, the death of the City that everyone in the EU keeps hyping up doesn't seem likely, hiring is stronger than I've ever seen it and we're winning clients from outside the EU much faster than we were when we were in it and for us it's made up for the difficulty in servicing EU based clients and more. I think 2021 will be a record year for us in terms of asset gains and 2022 will be a record for profitability.

Thanks for the "I'm alright Jack" anecdote. There are plenty of very real businesses that have suffered so that those that jerk off about "sovrinty init" can have their moment of ecstasy.

The reality is that Brexit is and was a massive upheaval. Whether it was economically worth it I am happy to concede will now need to be decided by impartial historical economists probably long after I have ceased to care, and though I am not dead, I am already not far off not caring now.

As far as I was concerned, the worst thing about Brexit was that it was so massively divisive. Some people and some politicians get off on that, just like the SNP in Scotland. It might be helpful if people who were in favour of Brexit owned a bit of humility instead of constantly trying to justify Brexit when there is no need to do so. We are not going back in. You don't need to keep picking at the wound.

That's not really what I was going for and I do accept that there will be some tough times for specific industries, mostly in food and fishing.

I think what you fail to see is that EU membership was also massively divisive, as someone who benefits from it's not easy to understand why it would be but communities across the whole country have been destroyed by wage deflation and stagnation in lower-middle income jobs and the resulting increase in population has also resulted in a crash in owner occupation of houses.

As much as I'm a realist about what brexit is and isn't (and there are many items in each column) I think you should be realistic about what EU membership had turned into for large swathes of the country. That resentment and divisiveness was already there with or without a referendum. In 2015 4m people voted for UKIP, by a quirk of our voting system they didn't get any seats. In the road not taken where Dave refused a referendum how many cycles do you think it would have taken for PM Nige to become a reality? Pretending that EU membership was all sunlit uplands isn't realistic.

I am trying not to be drawn into EU arguments as I think we need to move on, but I think your argument about "EU membership" has some validity EXCEPT that a lot of the associated problems with free movement were as a result of British government immigration policies, and the reality that 50% of UK immigration had nothing to do with the EU and yet successive Home Secretaries (including Mrs May) did nothing about it and tacitly encouraged it. The EU was blamed for immigration because it was convenient. It is all history now though!

Did nothing? May was far, far too authoritarian with immigration from the rest of the world! Unless you want zero migration, to say that 'nothing was being done' is just untrue - one irony is that many voted to Leave the EU to make it easier for the rest of the world to get a visa to come to the UK not harder.

I'm glad the authoritarian May Home Secretary has gone as well as her ludicrous and xenophobic "hundreds of thousands" pledge. I'm glad that we have liberalised getting a visa for many skilled migrants from the rest of the world post-Brexit.

Not according to wiki. Breakdown as follows -

Voting Leave to get lower net migration: 17,410,741
Voting Leave to get higher net migration: Richard Tyndall

Wrong. Vote Leave and immigration doesn't matter.

My aim is not for higher or lower migration, it is migration to cease to be an issue. Now I know that is fanciful but the point is that it had zero impact on my view of the EU. Nor am I alone in this. Indeed PT's views are very close to mine - if perhaps not quite so extreme in this respect.

I realise that kind of spoils your little meme but that is your problem not mine.

Anabobazina said:

kle4 said:

OldKingCole said:

kle4 said:

Leon said:

Floater said:

OldKingCole said:

Floater said:

OK - I am royally pissed off and if anyone has any ideas I am all ears

E.on are my sons energy provider - I have mentioned that he has been running up some impossible bills

In last month he has allegedly run up 700 - his arrears were getting on for 2 grand (a complaint has been open for a while on how this amount can possibly be used).

An engineer came out agreed he couldn't run that up living on his own in a 2 bed flat and said he suspected someone else was drawing his supply too. (This is the second person contracted by Eon to say this)

Eon manager subsequently rang my son and agreed to accept a certain payment and agreed my son could leave them for another supplier - he has I think 4 complaints open with Eon going back nearly a year for the first one - none resolved.

He hit a snag with paying them and a compromise was agreed (so, multiple calls on this) - this agreement was kept by us. (Delay was literally 48 hours tops)

He has had debt collection on the phone today asking for full payment - he referred them to his agreement with manager and she said she could not find record of the phone call and in any event the person who made the agreement was not entitled to do so.... (despite not knowing who it was )

This person said it was entirely possible to run up 700 a month on a 2 bed flat on his own (Like feck, I spend a fraction of that on a 5 bed place with a family in it)

When he pointed out that the engineer who came out said he could not and it needed further investigation and he was probably better placed to make that determination she claimed she knew better and then hung up on him.....

I tried 3 times to get details on how to escalate a complaint and they hung up on me 3 times. Then it took 50 minutes on one of those chat tools to finally just get an e mail address to make a written complaint to. They would not give me a way to escalate or a managers details - I had to threaten them with my mp and Ombudsman to get even that.

I said its almost like they don't want a proper record of what they are saying ..... (but I have screen shots of the chat)

He will hate me saying this - but he is dealing with some difficult health issues (cancer and severe kidney issues) plus he has mental health issues (bipolar) and this is making him ill with stress. I frankly am beyond furious, because he really does not need this (He and I have both told E.on this too)

As I say I'm mad and I will be helping son write to the general complaints line and I will contact our MP and Ombudsman with him but any other advice gratefully accepted -A friend mentioned Resover.co.uk - that looks like it might help - it even has a name within E.on to escalate to - which E.on just would not give me - which again just shows me they being deliberately uncooperative.

Dreadful. Have you tried Citizens Advice?

Not yet - but we we be contacting everyone we can think of

Kinabalu is right. The media can be really helpful. Source a friendly journalist who can ring their press office and say he or she is writing about your story, and would they like to comment? That often puts a rocket booster under them

A pal of mine had a real and unpleasant problem with Google, a few years ago. Try and get Google to respond to a normal complaint - it's impossible. They are so huge, unwieldy and indifferent. You can't even find anyone to talk to

So he found a journo friend who rang the Google UK press office and his year-old problem was sorted in a day

Threats to go to the media only work if the press actually do follow through. The number of times people say they will go to the press and either don't, or the press don't run with it, vastly outweighs the times it works, and councils/organisations know that.

But neither Floater not E.on will know until they don’t!

The point was you do it, and if lucky the media run with it, don't tell them you will do it, since most of the time it doesn't work and people think the threat worries organisations and it doesn't, not until it is proven as a real thing.

You are conflating someone threatening to “go to the press”, with having an actual journalist call the press office. Two completely different things. I can confirm that Leon is right: the latter strategy is very often a winning gambit.

Leon said:

Malmesbury said:

Leon said:

Floater said:

OldKingCole said:

Floater said:

OK - I am royally pissed off and if anyone has any ideas I am all ears

E.on are my sons energy provider - I have mentioned that he has been running up some impossible bills

In last month he has allegedly run up 700 - his arrears were getting on for 2 grand (a complaint has been open for a while on how this amount can possibly be used).

An engineer came out agreed he couldn't run that up living on his own in a 2 bed flat and said he suspected someone else was drawing his supply too. (This is the second person contracted by Eon to say this)

Eon manager subsequently rang my son and agreed to accept a certain payment and agreed my son could leave them for another supplier - he has I think 4 complaints open with Eon going back nearly a year for the first one - none resolved.

He hit a snag with paying them and a compromise was agreed (so, multiple calls on this) - this agreement was kept by us. (Delay was literally 48 hours tops)

He has had debt collection on the phone today asking for full payment - he referred them to his agreement with manager and she said she could not find record of the phone call and in any event the person who made the agreement was not entitled to do so.... (despite not knowing who it was )

This person said it was entirely possible to run up 700 a month on a 2 bed flat on his own (Like feck, I spend a fraction of that on a 5 bed place with a family in it)

When he pointed out that the engineer who came out said he could not and it needed further investigation and he was probably better placed to make that determination she claimed she knew better and then hung up on him.....

I tried 3 times to get details on how to escalate a complaint and they hung up on me 3 times. Then it took 50 minutes on one of those chat tools to finally just get an e mail address to make a written complaint to. They would not give me a way to escalate or a managers details - I had to threaten them with my mp and Ombudsman to get even that.

I said its almost like they don't want a proper record of what they are saying ..... (but I have screen shots of the chat)

He will hate me saying this - but he is dealing with some difficult health issues (cancer and severe kidney issues) plus he has mental health issues (bipolar) and this is making him ill with stress. I frankly am beyond furious, because he really does not need this (He and I have both told E.on this too)

As I say I'm mad and I will be helping son write to the general complaints line and I will contact our MP and Ombudsman with him but any other advice gratefully accepted -A friend mentioned Resover.co.uk - that looks like it might help - it even has a name within E.on to escalate to - which E.on just would not give me - which again just shows me they being deliberately uncooperative.

Dreadful. Have you tried Citizens Advice?

Not yet - but we we be contacting everyone we can think of

Kinabalu is right. The media can be really helpful. Source a friendly journalist who can ring their press office and say he or she is writing about your story, and would they like to comment? That often puts a rocket booster under them

A pal of mine had a real and unpleasant problem with Google, a few years ago. Try and get Google to respond to a normal complaint - it's impossible. They are so huge, unwieldy and indifferent. You can't even find anyone to talk to

So he found a journo friend who rang the Google UK press office and his year-old problem was sorted in a day

The local council made a stupid political move over a playground (yes, really)

One of the locals, a journalist for a very respected publication, started politely asking people.

A week later the council found a serious 5 figure sum to totally reverse their idiocy.

Yes. Bad publicity is much more expensive, and much more of a hassle, that sorting out an individual problem. So the problems get sorted

Without wishing to torment Scottxp, this is one reason I voted Brexit. The media is a vital lever of democracy - even in its diminished state in the internet era - it can apply real pressure to big corporations - and to governments and politicians

If the Daily Mail or the Guardian or whoever sinks teeth into a story, and pursues it, they can enact political change. eg the Times' Andrew Norfolk and the grooming scandal

No such EU-wide media, able to apply pressure to the Commission and eurocrats, exists, and because of all the languages (and the lack of elections for eurocrats) it probably never will.

So the EU can never be a true democracy with a 4th estate speaking truth to power

Another one of those non-immigration reasons to vote Leave

kle4 said:

Anabobazina said:

kle4 said:

OldKingCole said:

kle4 said:

Leon said:

Floater said:

OldKingCole said:

Floater said:

OK - I am royally pissed off and if anyone has any ideas I am all ears

E.on are my sons energy provider - I have mentioned that he has been running up some impossible bills

In last month he has allegedly run up 700 - his arrears were getting on for 2 grand (a complaint has been open for a while on how this amount can possibly be used).

An engineer came out agreed he couldn't run that up living on his own in a 2 bed flat and said he suspected someone else was drawing his supply too. (This is the second person contracted by Eon to say this)

Eon manager subsequently rang my son and agreed to accept a certain payment and agreed my son could leave them for another supplier - he has I think 4 complaints open with Eon going back nearly a year for the first one - none resolved.

He hit a snag with paying them and a compromise was agreed (so, multiple calls on this) - this agreement was kept by us. (Delay was literally 48 hours tops)

He has had debt collection on the phone today asking for full payment - he referred them to his agreement with manager and she said she could not find record of the phone call and in any event the person who made the agreement was not entitled to do so.... (despite not knowing who it was )

This person said it was entirely possible to run up 700 a month on a 2 bed flat on his own (Like feck, I spend a fraction of that on a 5 bed place with a family in it)

When he pointed out that the engineer who came out said he could not and it needed further investigation and he was probably better placed to make that determination she claimed she knew better and then hung up on him.....

I tried 3 times to get details on how to escalate a complaint and they hung up on me 3 times. Then it took 50 minutes on one of those chat tools to finally just get an e mail address to make a written complaint to. They would not give me a way to escalate or a managers details - I had to threaten them with my mp and Ombudsman to get even that.

I said its almost like they don't want a proper record of what they are saying ..... (but I have screen shots of the chat)

He will hate me saying this - but he is dealing with some difficult health issues (cancer and severe kidney issues) plus he has mental health issues (bipolar) and this is making him ill with stress. I frankly am beyond furious, because he really does not need this (He and I have both told E.on this too)

As I say I'm mad and I will be helping son write to the general complaints line and I will contact our MP and Ombudsman with him but any other advice gratefully accepted -A friend mentioned Resover.co.uk - that looks like it might help - it even has a name within E.on to escalate to - which E.on just would not give me - which again just shows me they being deliberately uncooperative.

Dreadful. Have you tried Citizens Advice?

Not yet - but we we be contacting everyone we can think of

Kinabalu is right. The media can be really helpful. Source a friendly journalist who can ring their press office and say he or she is writing about your story, and would they like to comment? That often puts a rocket booster under them

A pal of mine had a real and unpleasant problem with Google, a few years ago. Try and get Google to respond to a normal complaint - it's impossible. They are so huge, unwieldy and indifferent. You can't even find anyone to talk to

So he found a journo friend who rang the Google UK press office and his year-old problem was sorted in a day

Threats to go to the media only work if the press actually do follow through. The number of times people say they will go to the press and either don't, or the press don't run with it, vastly outweighs the times it works, and councils/organisations know that.

But neither Floater not E.on will know until they don’t!

The point was you do it, and if lucky the media run with it, don't tell them you will do it, since most of the time it doesn't work and people think the threat worries organisations and it doesn't, not until it is proven as a real thing.

You are conflating someone threatening to “go to the press”, with having an actual journalist call the press office. Two completely different things. I can confirm that Leon is right: the latter strategy is very often a winning gambit.

I'm doing nothing of the kind, I'm agreeing that it can work so long as you actually do get a journalist to do it, and making a warning not to make the mistake of conflating that into thinking just telling the company you will go to the press will work instead (and thus save the bother of actually arranging for a journalist).

Lots of people know that media attention will make things happen. Lots of others assume the potential of media attention will do the same, and they are wrong.

Sunil_Prasannan said:

malcolmg said:

rcs1000 said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Cookie said:

CarlottaVance said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Carnyx said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Stuartinromford said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Stuartinromford said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Reports Boris is about to announce in the HOC a full public enquiry into Covid

Begins in Spring 2022

An eternity away. "There is bound to be a resurgence in the Autumn" so all the more reason not to understand all that has gone right and all that has gone wrong beforehand.

He is delaying for one simple reason. He currently has a boost from the vaccine and wants to ride that as long as possible before the enquiry tears him apart.

Sorry but that is utter nonsense and he explained all the reasons and as you mention a resurgence in the Autumn was one of those reasons as he did not want to interfer on front line services while this could be a critical period

Also, with respect, you have absolutely no creditability if you think a full public enquiry could be set up, terms of reference agreed, take evidence and produce a conclusion by the Autumn

And if it does attack Boris, then Sturgeon, Drakeford and Foster will all be in the same place as they more or less followed the same advice

Your hatred of Boris at times overwhelms what should be your common sense

Except.

England has done notably worse than the other home nations.

Going off the FT data, these are the current deaths per 100k:
England 199
Wales 176
Scotland 140 (rather better than France)
N Ireland 113 (almost as low as where Germany is likely to end up)

I think we can assume that the data are comparable in terms of what is and isn't counted as a Covid death. OK, that could be about geography, underlying health, whatever. But there were also critical differences in policy between the four nations. For an infection that doubles in less than a week when unchecked, you don't need big changes in policy to have big changes in outcome. For example, dithering about imposing a lockdown post-Christmas.

And whilst you can't convict PM Johnson on the basis of those figures alone, the idea that all the nation's leaders are in the same "awkward explaining to do" boat simply isn't borne out by the numbers.

What do you think of these numbers? Very relevant.

England 432
Wales 151
Northern Ireland 133
Scotland 65

Let me guess... population density. Am I right?

Except, if so, I don't think those numbers are as much of a slam dunk as you think. From a population point of view, Scotland is a densely populated central belt and a lot of mountains and lochs. From the point of view of a Covid virus, what matters is the density where people live.

According to the internet
Glasgow is 3400 people per square kilometre
London is 5683 people per square kilometre
Paris is 21067 people per square kilometre

But to be fair, all of those numbers depend on what you do and don't include. A simple population / area calculation for Havering would be misleading, because half of it is inhabited and the other half is green belt.
After all, we wouldn't want to bandy about numbers without meaningful context, would we?

Yes its population density and its extremely relevant. As I said before which TUD misquoted, there's vast firebreaks within Scotland between its cities that doesn't exist to the same extent in eg Northwest England. From Liverpool to Manchester the population density is higher than Glasgow, but also the area inbetween is much more populated. Going from Liverpool to Widnes, Warrington, Wigan, Leigh, Manchester, Bury etc is all one great urban and suburban sprawl with no firebreak between them. Unlike eg from Glasgow to Edinburgh that has natural firebreaks.

If you want to be stupid and ignore population density then you could try analysing deaths within England by local Council party control. I strongly suspect Labour controlled Councils have a higher death rate than Tory controlled Councils. Does that mean Tory Councils have done a better job?

Of course not, the virus targets dense population. Which England, especially in places like the Northwest, London etc has in abundance and Scotland does not to the same extent.

But people routinely commute between Glasgow and Edinburgh, for instance.

It's only the really remote communities (islands, in particular) that have more ort less escaped infection.

Also, the issue is not so much the spread of the virus between centres - it does - as how it develops within each centre. That.s where the stats come from and that's what the stats record.

During lockdown there would have been a fraction of the contiguous commuting between Glasgow and Edinburgh that there is between Liverpool and Manchester.

The stats record that more dense areas have more deaths and that's consistent across the UK and across the world.

Being idiotic and taking figures out of context is what Trump supporters tried to do last year to say that GOP Governors had done better than Democrat Governors - because deaths were higher in the densely populated Democrat states. Its bullshit, just as it would be bullshit to "blame" Labour Councils for the fact that the worst death rates in England are in Labour controlled Councils.

You mean contiguous commuting between Glasgow (pop. 600k plus) and Edinburgh (pop. 488k) via M8 belt (pop. c400k) compared to Liverpool (pop. 498k) and Manchester (pop. 550k) via M62 belt (pop. nofuckingidea)?
Chalk and cheese, obviously.

Manchester Metropolitan area: 2,556,000
Liverpool Metropolitan area: 2,241,000
Total: 4,797,000

If you add in Leeds-Bradford (2,302,000) you're over 7 million.....

Glasgow: 1,395,000
Edinburgh: 782,000
Total: 2,177,000

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESPON_metropolitan_areas_in_the_United_Kingdom

Some European definitions describe the Manchester-Liverpool conurbation as one continuous built-up area like the Ruhr. Manchester-Liverpool was considered the 10th largest conurbation in the EU, back when it was in the EU. I think this is reasonably convincing. It's easily possible to travel from Manchester city centre to Liverpool city centre and never be more than 200m from a building.
(Some British definitions would have you believe that Liverpool-Manchester-Leeds-Sheffield is one continuous built up area but that is rather more dubious both topographically and economically).

Precisely!

@Theuniondivvie seems to think that Glasgow to Edinburgh is comparable to that, despite the fact the two cities combined have less population than either of the cities let alone the whole contiguous M62 corridor.

The train route between the two Scottish cities is also slow, and takes you through a lot of countryside.

Do you take the country train or the inter city though, quite a difference.

45 mins from Glasgow Queen Street to Edinburgh.

Philip_Thompson said:

Leon said:

If the Daily Mail or the Guardian or whoever sinks teeth into a story, and pursues it, they can enact political change. eg the Times' Andrew Norfolk and the grooming scandal

No such EU-wide media, able to apply pressure to the Commission and eurocrats, exists, and because of all the languages (and the lack of elections for eurocrats) it probably never will.

So the EU can never be a true democracy with a 4th estate speaking truth to power

Another one of those non-immigration reasons to vote Leave

That's very well said and it played into my thinking too. The lack of a single pan-European media is part and parcel of why there's no true European demos and why politics doesn't work as it democratically should as we know it.

Johnson wants good headlines in a way that von der Leyen will never truly care about.

Casino_Royale said:

ping said:

RIP to all those pointlessly killed in Israel/Palestine.

I don’t know who I despise more; The Israeli right or the Palestinian Islamists.

Peas in a pod

The Promise (Claire Foy's first major outing) is extremely good.

kinabalu said:

Andy_JS said:

I see today's topic of discussion on PB is architecture.

Yes. And is liking modern architecture Woke, I'm wondering? Does it show a sneery disdain for ordinary people? I'm betting it does!

Richard_Tyndall said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

MaxPB said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

MaxPB said:

kingbongo said:

MaxPB said:

kingbongo said:

MaxPB said:

The commission economic predictions for the UK definitely have a touch of jilted ex syndrome. The city consensus is noticeably higher and factors in little to no brexit related reduction in GDP. I think it would be fairly embarrassing for them to come in at ~7.5% where the city consensus is for the UK, though. Additionally it looks like their projections are done on a nominal GDP calculation basis but the GDP itself is the output model as preferred by the ONS. Most of the city has caught up with this and it's why there is expected to be a big bounceback as schools return to normal and health output picks up as the NHS works through a huge backlog.

It's interesting reading the economics editor of Berlingske today explaining how the UK economy fared worst of all economies last year "Unlike Denmark" - the whole piece is tinged with a "bastard british have left us at the mercy of the Germans" vibe - apparently there may be some short term bounce back over the summer but by Autumn the warning klaxons will be going off and the full error of Brexit will become visible - I don't know if that will happen but reading the piece it's clear he really wants it too because the UK 'abandoned' Denmark.

Another bit of jilted ex syndrome. Goldman Sachs have got UK growth this year penciled in at 7.8% which recovers all of our GDP by the end of 2021 based on the measure they use.

Also, there is a solution to being left at the mercy of Germany. 🤷‍♂️

I can't tell you the grief I get over the UK leaving the EU, mostly because I don't participate in gleefully hoping it all goes horribly wrong and saying Boris Johnson is an idiot and the electorate were tricked - Danes are mostly now looking on and suffering major jilted ex syndrome. They HATE the idea Brexit might not be that big a deal economically to the UK.

Too much guardian reading and CNN watching I think. If there is a brexit effect, even in the short term, it is mostly going to be carried by the food/fishing industry because of EU border pedantry. Most of everything else will just get on with life. Speaking from my position in financial services, the death of the City that everyone in the EU keeps hyping up doesn't seem likely, hiring is stronger than I've ever seen it and we're winning clients from outside the EU much faster than we were when we were in it and for us it's made up for the difficulty in servicing EU based clients and more. I think 2021 will be a record year for us in terms of asset gains and 2022 will be a record for profitability.

Thanks for the "I'm alright Jack" anecdote. There are plenty of very real businesses that have suffered so that those that jerk off about "sovrinty init" can have their moment of ecstasy.

The reality is that Brexit is and was a massive upheaval. Whether it was economically worth it I am happy to concede will now need to be decided by impartial historical economists probably long after I have ceased to care, and though I am not dead, I am already not far off not caring now.

As far as I was concerned, the worst thing about Brexit was that it was so massively divisive. Some people and some politicians get off on that, just like the SNP in Scotland. It might be helpful if people who were in favour of Brexit owned a bit of humility instead of constantly trying to justify Brexit when there is no need to do so. We are not going back in. You don't need to keep picking at the wound.

That's not really what I was going for and I do accept that there will be some tough times for specific industries, mostly in food and fishing.

I think what you fail to see is that EU membership was also massively divisive, as someone who benefits from it's not easy to understand why it would be but communities across the whole country have been destroyed by wage deflation and stagnation in lower-middle income jobs and the resulting increase in population has also resulted in a crash in owner occupation of houses.

As much as I'm a realist about what brexit is and isn't (and there are many items in each column) I think you should be realistic about what EU membership had turned into for large swathes of the country. That resentment and divisiveness was already there with or without a referendum. In 2015 4m people voted for UKIP, by a quirk of our voting system they didn't get any seats. In the road not taken where Dave refused a referendum how many cycles do you think it would have taken for PM Nige to become a reality? Pretending that EU membership was all sunlit uplands isn't realistic.

I am trying not to be drawn into EU arguments as I think we need to move on, but I think your argument about "EU membership" has some validity EXCEPT that a lot of the associated problems with free movement were as a result of British government immigration policies, and the reality that 50% of UK immigration had nothing to do with the EU and yet successive Home Secretaries (including Mrs May) did nothing about it and tacitly encouraged it. The EU was blamed for immigration because it was convenient. It is all history now though!

Did nothing? May was far, far too authoritarian with immigration from the rest of the world! Unless you want zero migration, to say that 'nothing was being done' is just untrue - one irony is that many voted to Leave the EU to make it easier for the rest of the world to get a visa to come to the UK not harder.

I'm glad the authoritarian May Home Secretary has gone as well as her ludicrous and xenophobic "hundreds of thousands" pledge. I'm glad that we have liberalised getting a visa for many skilled migrants from the rest of the world post-Brexit.

Not according to wiki. Breakdown as follows -

Voting Leave to get lower net migration: 17,410,741
Voting Leave to get higher net migration: Richard Tyndall

Wrong. Vote Leave and immigration doesn't matter.

My aim is not for higher or lower migration, it is migration to cease to be an issue. Now I know that is fanciful but the point is that it had zero impact on my view of the EU. Nor am I alone in this. Indeed PT's views are very close to mine - if perhaps not quite so extreme in this respect.

I realise that kind of spoils your little meme but that is your problem not mine.

kinabalu said:

Andy_JS said:

I see today's topic of discussion on PB is architecture.

Yes. And is liking modern architecture Woke, I'm wondering? Does it show a sneery disdain for ordinary people? I'm betting it does!

stodge said:

Evening all

Perhaps it's me but I don't detect a lot of warmth on here for Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, David Cameron or Theresa May?

Who would be Prime Minister? I don't know but it seems preferable to being an ex-Prime Minister.

Do we need to go back 30 years or more to find a Prime Minister who enjoyed widespread admiration among PB contributors?

Are we still Thatcher's Children and does her shadow really extend that far?

Are there really more questions than answers?

Leon said:

The endless cool grey weather is really raping my vibe

algarkirk said:

ping said:

RIP to all the innocents pointlessly killed in Israel/Palestine.

I don’t know who I despise more; The Israeli right or the Palestinian Islamists.

Peas in a pod.

Tragic and terrible. Why does it get so much more coverage than the 380,000 who have died and millions displaced in Syria?

Leon said:

The endless cool grey weather is really raping my vibe

ping said:

RIP to all the innocents pointlessly killed in Israel/Palestine.

I don’t know who I despise more; The Israeli right or the Palestinian Islamists.

Peas in a pod.