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CON choose ex-UKIP leader to fight Thanet S
Against Farage?
My money's now going on LAB in this tight 3-way marginal pic.twitter.com/eG2CKD2MGQ
Comments
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Farage is less likely to stand in South Thanet than he was on Friday morning.
A chartered accountant who was leader of UKIP in 1997 and deputy leader from 1997-2000 is someone with too many weapons in his armoury.
Unlike Geoffrey Dickens, he would have understood the power of a photocopier.0 -
Will the guy join the Better Off Out group of Tories?0
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Are tactical voters going to know to vote Lab? 2010 was:
Con 22,043
...which only looks close to us because we think the LibDems will collapse in Lab's favour. It's obvious that this will happen to us, but it won't be to most voters. And I'd have thought the media would mainly report this as a UKIP challenge to Con. The result will probably be a big, confusing tactical mess with misplaced tactical votes all over the place.
Lab 14,426
LibDem 6,935
Con having a very UKIP-ish candidate may help Lab squeeze those LibDems a bit harder (at least the liberal-left ones, don't know how many of those are in Thanet), but Lab need more than a LibDem squeeze, they need a big LibDem squeeze plus a decent-sized Con->UKIP movement that isn't matched by Lab->UKIP. This is looking less likely now than it was at the beginning of the year.
Looks like a Con hold to me.0 -
ref. PT. Mr ALP, TBF to GD, photocopiers were very much less easy to obtain then. I recall in the v early 80's using an ink-based duplicator.
Nearly as messy as the situation which is developing.0 -
...which only looks close to us because we think the LibDems will collapse in Lab's favour. It's obvious that this will happen to us, but it won't be to most voters. And I'd have thought the media would mainly report this as a UKIP challenge to Con. The result will probably be a big, confusing tactical mess with misplaced tactical votes all over the place.edmundintokyo said:Are tactical voters going to know to vote Lab? 2010 was:
Con 22,043
Lab 14,426
LibDem 6,935
Con having a very UKIP-ish candidate may help Lab squeeze those LibDems a bit harder, but Lab need more than a LibDem squeeze, they need a big LibDem squeeze plus a decent-sized Con->UKIP movement that isn't matched by Lab->UKIP.
Looks like a Con hold to me.
Good point about the media's likely portrayal of the battle.
Labour's cause isn't helped by the choice of a 24 year old PPC who looks at least ten years younger than his age.
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Terrible as slavery was, we're not in the Middle Ages any more.FalseFlag said:
One could harp on about the Golden Horde and Christians kidnapped and brought south to the Crimea to be sold as slaves.Socrates said:
We're not in the middle ages any more. This can't be brushed aside as "one of those things".foxinsoxuk said:Mass expulsions are part of the history of the Muslim and Christian world, on both sides. Whether expulsion of Moors from Spain, Turks from The Balkans or Tatars from Crimea. This is counterbalanced by the expulsions and destruction of the Greeks and Armenians in Anatolia and the continuing persecution of Middle Eastern Christians to this day.
The fate of the Tatars is that they were on the losing side of a line of a 1300 year old culture war.
Of course the greatest victims of Lenin, Trotsky and their Bolshevik co conspirators were the Russians themselves. A state against its own people with Russians far and few between in the state apparatus till Russification in the great Patriotic War. Personally though I loathe the left's tendency to cry crocodile tears over crimes that benefit their cause whilst ignoring those that don't. Who, whom is the motivator.
I absolutely agree that the Russians had a terrible experience through communist rule. Ever since the Mongol invasion, Russia has been beset with illiberal autocratic dictators, from the Tsars to the communists to the KGB kleptocrats currently in power. The constitutional, progressive rule from Kiev was replaced by the tyrannical rule of Moscow. But the suffering of the Russians does not justify being rewarded for ethnic cleansing, nor does it justify the invasion and annexation of foreign territory.0 -
The days of the Gestetner Cyclograph, Mr. Cole.OldKingCole said:ref. PT. Mr ALP, TBF to GD, photocopiers were very much less easy to obtain then. I recall in the v early 80's using an ink-based duplicator.
Nearly as messy as the situation which is developing.
The iPad generation never knew the trials and tribulations we had to undergo.
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Indeed Mr LP. Up there with finding a working telephone box to communicate with one’s base.AveryLP said:
The days of the Gestetner Cyclograph, Mr. Cole.OldKingCole said:ref. PT. Mr ALP, TBF to GD, photocopiers were very much less easy to obtain then. I recall in the v early 80's using an ink-based duplicator.
Nearly as messy as the situation which is developing.
The iPad generation never knew the trials and tribulations we had to undergo.0 -
Mercedes looking fairly quick.
/analysis0 -
Very true, but photocopiers were in place, even in public sector offices, before 1980. True one had to copy each page one at a time and they were not cheap to use (10p per page as I recall) but they were there in every public sector office from the late 1970's onwards.AveryLP said:
The days of the Gestetner Cyclograph, Mr. Cole.OldKingCole said:ref. PT. Mr ALP, TBF to GD, photocopiers were very much less easy to obtain then. I recall in the v early 80's using an ink-based duplicator.
Nearly as messy as the situation which is developing.
The iPad generation never knew the trials and tribulations we had to undergo.
The idea that a someone would hand over a dossier of important information without keeping a copy of it, is insane.0 -
FPT
I was never convinced by Ukrainian chocolates, Dr. Sox.foxinsoxuk said:
I was at a function recently at the Ukrainian club in Leicester (It dates from postwar refugees). I can highly commend Ukrainian chocolates, the beer is good too.AveryLP said:
Socrates.Socrates said:
The oligarchs in Ukraine are acting in their own economic self-interest. Most of the customers of their businesses are Ukrainians, who have turned strongly against Russia over the country's invasion of their homeland.AveryLP said:@JohnLilburne
We certainly need to challenge the assertion that Russian-speaking Ukrainians are Russians living abroad who is some way need Russian "protection"
The apparent calm in Eastern Ukraine is less a product of military intervention than a buying off of dissent by the oligarchs who own the core industries of the region and are, in many areas, sole local employers.
...
The principal customers for the heavy industries of Eastern Ukraine are Russian. A substantial amount of mining extracts are also sold on world markets and make up the largest part of the Ukraine's foreign currency earnings.
Ukrainian consumers have a minimal impact on where such output is sold.
Chocolates maybe. Steel and Coal, not.
The state banks in Soviet capitals always used at present them at meetings with the suggestion that you were being treated as a VIP. There was no option but to praise them effusively.
I preferred the approach of the new private sector banks which operated out of derelict industrial premises but served the most expensive chocolates imported from Maison du Chocolat in Paris.
As you will know I am not a natural Francophile and only a very limited snob, but I do believe that the French outran the Ukrainians in the Prix du Chocolat Stakes.
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Quite, Mr Lama. IIRC by the time GD compiled his dossier word-processing systems were in place ..... I recall using an Amstrad in the mid 80’s and consequently there would be a record somewhere. I know the Little & Sad constituency no longer exists, but surely all the records in the Tory office were not destroyed.HurstLlama said:
Very true, but photocopiers were in place, even in public sector offices, before 1980. True one had to copy each page one at a time and they were not cheap to use (10p per page as I recall) but they were there in every public sector office from the late 1970's onwards.AveryLP said:
The days of the Gestetner Cyclograph, Mr. Cole.OldKingCole said:ref. PT. Mr ALP, TBF to GD, photocopiers were very much less easy to obtain then. I recall in the v early 80's using an ink-based duplicator.
Nearly as messy as the situation which is developing.
The iPad generation never knew the trials and tribulations we had to undergo.
The idea that a someone would hand over a dossier of important information without keeping a copy of it, is insane.0 -
It was a delightful and well lubricated function, so maybe the pleasures of the evening softened my assessment of the sweets!AveryLP said:FPT
I was never convinced by Ukrainian chocolates, Dr. Sox.foxinsoxuk said:
I was at a function recently at the Ukrainian club in Leicester (It dates from postwar refugees). I can highly commend Ukrainian chocolates, the beer is good too.AveryLP said:
Socrates.Socrates said:
The oligarchs in Ukraine are acting in their own economic self-interest. Most of the customers of their businesses are Ukrainians, who have turned strongly against Russia over the country's invasion of their homeland.AveryLP said:@JohnLilburne
We certainly need to challenge the assertion that Russian-speaking Ukrainians are Russians living abroad who is some way need Russian "protection"
The apparent calm in Eastern Ukraine is less a product of military intervention than a buying off of dissent by the oligarchs who own the core industries of the region and are, in many areas, sole local employers.
...
The principal customers for the heavy industries of Eastern Ukraine are Russian. A substantial amount of mining extracts are also sold on world markets and make up the largest part of the Ukraine's foreign currency earnings.
Ukrainian consumers have a minimal impact on where such output is sold.
Chocolates maybe. Steel and Coal, not.
The state banks in Soviet capitals always used at present them at meetings with the suggestion that you were being treated as a VIP. There was no option but to praise them effusively.
I preferred the approach of the new private sector banks which operated out of derelict industrial premises but served the most expensive chocolates imported from Maison du Chocolat in Paris.
As you will know I am not a natural Francophile and only a very limited snob, but I do believe that the French outran the Ukrainians in the Prix du Chocolat Stakes.0 -
@OldKingCole
Depends on the resources of those who wanted the documents "lost"?0 -
Has this fellow revealed to the world his reasons for defecting to the blues from the purples?
It does rather diminish the contention that pro-kippers are allowed no votes or winnable seats in the Tory party.0 -
Not that brand advertised on the TV then!foxinsoxuk said:
It was a delightful and well lubricated function, so maybe the pleasures of the evening softened my assessment of the sweets!AveryLP said:FPT
I was never convinced by Ukrainian chocolates, Dr. Sox.foxinsoxuk said:
I was at a function recently at the Ukrainian club in Leicester (It dates from postwar refugees). I can highly commend Ukrainian chocolates, the beer is good too.AveryLP said:
Socrates.Socrates said:
The oligarchs in Ukraine are acting in their own economic self-interest. Most of the customers of their businesses are Ukrainians, who have turned strongly against Russia over the country's invasion of their homeland.AveryLP said:@JohnLilburne
We certainly need to challenge the assertion that Russian-speaking Ukrainians are Russians living abroad who is some way need Russian "protection"
The apparent calm in Eastern Ukraine is less a product of military intervention than a buying off of dissent by the oligarchs who own the core industries of the region and are, in many areas, sole local employers.
...
The principal customers for the heavy industries of Eastern Ukraine are Russian. A substantial amount of mining extracts are also sold on world markets and make up the largest part of the Ukraine's foreign currency earnings.
Ukrainian consumers have a minimal impact on where such output is sold.
Chocolates maybe. Steel and Coal, not.
The state banks in Soviet capitals always used at present them at meetings with the suggestion that you were being treated as a VIP. There was no option but to praise them effusively.
I preferred the approach of the new private sector banks which operated out of derelict industrial premises but served the most expensive chocolates imported from Maison du Chocolat in Paris.
As you will know I am not a natural Francophile and only a very limited snob, but I do believe that the French outran the Ukrainians in the Prix du Chocolat Stakes.0 -
Apparently he's a huge Jean-Claude Juncker fan. Left UKIP as soon as he heard he'd be getting the presidency.foxinsoxuk said:Has this fellow revealed to the world his reasons for defecting to the blues from the purples?
It does rather diminish the contention that pro-kippers are allowed no votes or winnable seats in the Tory party.0 -
Farage only became an MEP in 1999, the misdemeanours you allege would barely have begun if they ever happenedAveryLP said:Farage is less likely to stand in South Thanet than he was on Friday morning.
A chartered accountant who was leader of UKIP in 1997 and deputy leader from 1997-2000 is someone with too many weapons in his armoury.
Unlike Geoffrey Dickens, he would have understood the power of a photocopier.0 -
Putting aside questions like why MacKinlay left UKIP or why as former leader he never managed to become an MEP or how did he lose the PCC elections in Kent when in 2010 the Tories swept the board in Kent or why a 'Kentish Man' is intruding on 'Man Of Kent' territory' I thought it would be helpful looking at the Thanet vote shares from 2010 onwards. I've combined the Thanet North and Thanet South 2010 results to provide a like for like comparison (It is worth noting that the Tories had almost double the vote share lead over Labour in Thanet North [31% lead] than in Thanet South [16% lead] in 2010)
2010 General Election
Con 50%
Lab 27%
LD 17%
UKIP 5%
2011 Local Authority Elections (2007 results in brackets)
Con 47% (50)
Lab 38% (33)
LD 3% (1)
UKIP 2% (3)
2013 County Council Elections (2009 result in brackets)
Con 26% (44)
Lab 28% (26)
LD 3% (15)
UKIP 39% (9)
2014 Euro Elections (2009 figures in brackets)
Con 22% (30)
Lab 17% (13)
LD 3% (8)
UKIP 46% (22)
Of course the other question is whether Labour or Tories will divert funds from Con/Lab marginals to fight the 10 to 20 seats where UKIP potentially could threaten? From a Labour perspective it would seem a waste of money. If UKIP win a seat from the Tories that's another step toward Downing Street for Miliband so I doubt they would bother and that being the case can the Tories afford to?0 -
Excellent news! Heaven has a place for the sinner who repents. As does the Tory party...edmundintokyo said:
Apparently he's a huge Jean-Claude Juncker fan. Left UKIP as soon as he heard he'd be getting the presidency.foxinsoxuk said:Has this fellow revealed to the world his reasons for defecting to the blues from the purples?
It does rather diminish the contention that pro-kippers are allowed no votes or winnable seats in the Tory party.0 -
Pinky purple copies that smelled curiously fruity IIRC - those were the days. Xerox just created that weird hot electricity scent that made me want to sneeze.AveryLP said:
The days of the Gestetner Cyclograph, Mr. Cole.OldKingCole said:ref. PT. Mr ALP, TBF to GD, photocopiers were very much less easy to obtain then. I recall in the v early 80's using an ink-based duplicator.
Nearly as messy as the situation which is developing.
The iPad generation never knew the trials and tribulations we had to undergo.0 -
That surely cuts both ways. Not to mention the fact that the extensive statements he will have made against our continued membership of the EU will have to be squared with the Conservative's current stance.AveryLP said:Farage is less likely to stand in South Thanet than he was on Friday morning.
A chartered accountant who was leader of UKIP in 1997 and deputy leader from 1997-2000 is someone with too many weapons in his armoury.
Unlike Geoffrey Dickens, he would have understood the power of a photocopier.
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One could always take a Polaroid of it...HurstLlama said:
The idea that a someone would hand over a dossier of important information without keeping a copy of it, is insane.AveryLP said:
The days of the Gestetner Cyclograph, Mr. Cole.OldKingCole said:ref. PT. Mr ALP, TBF to GD, photocopiers were very much less easy to obtain then. I recall in the v early 80's using an ink-based duplicator.
Nearly as messy as the situation which is developing.
The iPad generation never knew the trials and tribulations we had to undergo.0 -
Whatever happened to the makers of carbon paper?Plato said:
One could always take a Polaroid of it...HurstLlama said:
The idea that a someone would hand over a dossier of important information without keeping a copy of it, is insane.AveryLP said:
The days of the Gestetner Cyclograph, Mr. Cole.OldKingCole said:ref. PT. Mr ALP, TBF to GD, photocopiers were very much less easy to obtain then. I recall in the v early 80's using an ink-based duplicator.
Nearly as messy as the situation which is developing.
The iPad generation never knew the trials and tribulations we had to undergo.0 -
The Duchess of Argyll's approach?Plato said:
One could always take a Polaroid of it...HurstLlama said:
The idea that a someone would hand over a dossier of important information without keeping a copy of it, is insane.AveryLP said:
The days of the Gestetner Cyclograph, Mr. Cole.OldKingCole said:ref. PT. Mr ALP, TBF to GD, photocopiers were very much less easy to obtain then. I recall in the v early 80's using an ink-based duplicator.
Nearly as messy as the situation which is developing.
The iPad generation never knew the trials and tribulations we had to undergo.0 -
Sniffing those, and tippex, in class was one of the pleasures of my schooldays. It used to wind up the teachers spectacularly.Plato said:
Pinky purple copies that smelled curiously fruity IIRC - those were the days. Xerox just created that weird hot electricity scent that made me want to sneeze.AveryLP said:
The days of the Gestetner Cyclograph, Mr. Cole.OldKingCole said:ref. PT. Mr ALP, TBF to GD, photocopiers were very much less easy to obtain then. I recall in the v early 80's using an ink-based duplicator.
Nearly as messy as the situation which is developing.
The iPad generation never knew the trials and tribulations we had to undergo.0 -
I must admit it seems quite ironic that the Tories have chosen a UKIP 'cast off' as their candidate in Thanet South.0
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Craig MacKinlay was Professor Alan Sked's anointed successor as leader of UKIP. After Sked resigned in 1997, Mackinlay's first decision was to call a leadership election in which he stood against the monied Michael Holmes, Nigel Farage's preferred candidate at the time.isam said:
Farage only became an MEP in 1999, the misdemeanours you allege would barely have begun if they ever happenedAveryLP said:Farage is less likely to stand in South Thanet than he was on Friday morning.
A chartered accountant who was leader of UKIP in 1997 and deputy leader from 1997-2000 is someone with too many weapons in his armoury.
Unlike Geoffrey Dickens, he would have understood the power of a photocopier.
Mackinlay was compensated with the post of Deputy Chairman and Treasurer by Holmes, but the latter too fell out with his colleagues due to his support for the primacy of the European Parliament over the Commission in 1999.
In a night of the long apostrophes, the UKIP NEC removed the entire leadership and voted Jeremy Titford as Leader, who in turn was replaced by Roger Knapman, before he too fell on his apostrophe, ceding centre stage to College, a joint founder of UKIP with Alan Sked in 1993..
Far too many apostrophes in the wrong place here, Sam.
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It is very easy to square. There will be an in/out referendum if the Tories get a majority, so he can campaign for out. There will not be that possibility with Miliband.Luckyguy1983 said:
That surely cuts both ways. Not to mention the fact that the extensive statements he will have made against our continued membership of the EU will have to be squared with the Conservative's current stance.AveryLP said:Farage is less likely to stand in South Thanet than he was on Friday morning.
A chartered accountant who was leader of UKIP in 1997 and deputy leader from 1997-2000 is someone with too many weapons in his armoury.
Unlike Geoffrey Dickens, he would have understood the power of a photocopier.0 -
Federer takes first on the tie-break against Djokovic0
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Nice to see Plato posting again.0
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I think they had a Kodak Moment...OldKingCole said:
Whatever happened to the makers of carbon paper?Plato said:
One could always take a Polaroid of it...HurstLlama said:
The idea that a someone would hand over a dossier of important information without keeping a copy of it, is insane.AveryLP said:
The days of the Gestetner Cyclograph, Mr. Cole.OldKingCole said:ref. PT. Mr ALP, TBF to GD, photocopiers were very much less easy to obtain then. I recall in the v early 80's using an ink-based duplicator.
Nearly as messy as the situation which is developing.
The iPad generation never knew the trials and tribulations we had to undergo.0 -
Slightly worrying there Dr Fox. Teenagers sniffing Tippex was something which alarmed many of us concerned with drug abuse in the days when we started to worry about such things.foxinsoxuk said:
Sniffing those, and tippex, in class was one of the pleasures of my schooldays. It used to wind up the teachers spectacularly.Plato said:
Pinky purple copies that smelled curiously fruity IIRC - those were the days. Xerox just created that weird hot electricity scent that made me want to sneeze.AveryLP said:
The days of the Gestetner Cyclograph, Mr. Cole.OldKingCole said:ref. PT. Mr ALP, TBF to GD, photocopiers were very much less easy to obtain then. I recall in the v early 80's using an ink-based duplicator.
Nearly as messy as the situation which is developing.
The iPad generation never knew the trials and tribulations we had to undergo.0 -
Rather reminiscent of a certain Georgians rise to power. MacKinlay needs to watch out for Mexicans with icepicks!AveryLP said:
Craig MacKinlay was Professor Alan Sked's anointed successor as leader of UKIP. After Sked resigned in 1997, Mackinlay's first decision was to call a leadership election in which he stood against the monied Michael Holmes, Nigel Farage's preferred candidate at the time.isam said:
Farage only became an MEP in 1999, the misdemeanours you allege would barely have begun if they ever happenedAveryLP said:Farage is less likely to stand in South Thanet than he was on Friday morning.
A chartered accountant who was leader of UKIP in 1997 and deputy leader from 1997-2000 is someone with too many weapons in his armoury.
Unlike Geoffrey Dickens, he would have understood the power of a photocopier.
Mackinlay was compensated with the post of Deputy Chairman and Treasurer by Holmes, but the latter too fell out with his colleagues due to his support for the primacy of the European Parliament over the Commission in 1999.
In a night of the long apostrophes, the UKIP NEC removed the entire leadership and voted Jeremy Titford as Leader, who in turn was replaced by Roger Knapman, before he too fell on his apostrophe, ceding centre stage to College, a joint founder of UKIP with Alan Sked in 1993..
Far too many apostrophes in the wrong place here, Sam.0 -
And the first fax machines that clunked their way along then stamped the output to show it was *received*.foxinsoxuk said:
Sniffing those, and tippex, in class was one of the pleasures of my schooldays. It used to wind up the teachers spectacularly.Plato said:
Pinky purple copies that smelled curiously fruity IIRC - those were the days. Xerox just created that weird hot electricity scent that made me want to sneeze.AveryLP said:
The days of the Gestetner Cyclograph, Mr. Cole.OldKingCole said:ref. PT. Mr ALP, TBF to GD, photocopiers were very much less easy to obtain then. I recall in the v early 80's using an ink-based duplicator.
Nearly as messy as the situation which is developing.
The iPad generation never knew the trials and tribulations we had to undergo.
I remember seeing a fax machine on Tomorrow's World! All that curly paper that went blank/black in the sunlight. Those were the days.0 -
Welcome back, Plato.Plato said:
Pinky purple copies that smelled curiously fruity IIRC - those were the days. Xerox just created that weird hot electricity scent that made me want to sneeze.AveryLP said:
The days of the Gestetner Cyclograph, Mr. Cole.OldKingCole said:ref. PT. Mr ALP, TBF to GD, photocopiers were very much less easy to obtain then. I recall in the v early 80's using an ink-based duplicator.
Nearly as messy as the situation which is developing.
The iPad generation never knew the trials and tribulations we had to undergo.
The skies are blue and the horizons promising.
PB is but a rose garden these days, with the threat from lefty aphids mostly under control.
Beware that Smarmeron though. He leaves a black spot on all petals.
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It was just in class, and rather theatrically to tease the teachers!OldKingCole said:
Slightly worrying there Dr Fox. Teenagers sniffing Tippex was something which alarmed many of us concerned with drug abuse in the days when we started to worry about such things.foxinsoxuk said:
Sniffing those, and tippex, in class was one of the pleasures of my schooldays. It used to wind up the teachers spectacularly.Plato said:
Pinky purple copies that smelled curiously fruity IIRC - those were the days. Xerox just created that weird hot electricity scent that made me want to sneeze.AveryLP said:
The days of the Gestetner Cyclograph, Mr. Cole.OldKingCole said:ref. PT. Mr ALP, TBF to GD, photocopiers were very much less easy to obtain then. I recall in the v early 80's using an ink-based duplicator.
Nearly as messy as the situation which is developing.
The iPad generation never knew the trials and tribulations we had to undergo.
I was at a comp, so too low budget for the more exotic nasal stimulants of the posh boys up the road!0 -
Do David Hockney’s pictures by fax still exist?Plato said:
And the first fax machines that clunked their way along then stamped the output to show it was *received*.foxinsoxuk said:
Sniffing those, and tippex, in class was one of the pleasures of my schooldays. It used to wind up the teachers spectacularly.Plato said:
Pinky purple copies that smelled curiously fruity IIRC - those were the days. Xerox just created that weird hot electricity scent that made me want to sneeze.AveryLP said:
The days of the Gestetner Cyclograph, Mr. Cole.OldKingCole said:ref. PT. Mr ALP, TBF to GD, photocopiers were very much less easy to obtain then. I recall in the v early 80's using an ink-based duplicator.
Nearly as messy as the situation which is developing.
The iPad generation never knew the trials and tribulations we had to undergo.
I remember seeing a fax machine on Tomorrow's World! All that curly paper that went blank/black in the sunlight. Those were the days.0 -
AveryLP said:
I used to use fungal killer on my Peach Weed - do you think that'd work? I had a devil of a problem with it all over my willows and honeysuckle one summer.Plato said:
Pinky purple copies that smelled curiously fruity IIRC - those were the days. Xerox just created that weird hot electricity scent that made meAveryLP said:
The days of the Gestetner Cyclograph, Mr. Cole.OldKingCole said:ref. PT. Mr ALP, TBF to GD, photocopiers were very much less easy to obtain then. I recall in the v early 80's using an ink-based duplicator.
Nearly as messy as the situation which is developing.
The iPad generation never knew the trials and tribulations we had to undergo.
Beware that Smarmeron though. He leaves a black spot on all petals.0 -
Welcome back Plato
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Djokovic a break up in the 2nd set 2-1.0
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This is encouraging:
"Spain is blocking Britain’s efforts to opt back in to the European Arrest Warrant, which controls the extradition of criminal suspects between EU member states.
For Britain to opt back in, all other states have to agree."
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2681940/James-Forsyth-Desperate-Nick-sends-MPs-survival-courses.html
http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2014/07/spain-gives-cameron-another-eu-headache.html0 -
I used to use fungal killer on my Peach Weed - do you think that'd work? I had a devil of a problem with it all over my willows and honeysuckle one summer.
Is that the purple rot that destroys everything non indigenous?
Welcome back Plato!0 -
Mum's a big Federer fan, she's whooping every time he scores and cursing every time Djokovic scores 0
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@Plato
I used to use fungal killer on my Peach Weed - do you think that'd work? I had a devil of a problem with it all over my willows and honeysuckle one summer.
I fear there is very little known to man which will keep Smarmeron down, Plato.
Although I have heard that Cameron is urging investment in pesticidinal research to combat newly developed immunities.0 -
Why on Earth is a party that claims to be eurosceptic handing over significant new powers over to the European Union, without giving the public a say over it? It completely undermines their supposed philosophy.anotherDave said:This is encouraging:
"Spain is blocking Britain’s efforts to opt back in to the European Arrest Warrant, which controls the extradition of criminal suspects between EU member states.
For Britain to opt back in, all other states have to agree."
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2681940/James-Forsyth-Desperate-Nick-sends-MPs-survival-courses.html
http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2014/07/spain-gives-cameron-another-eu-headache.html0 -
The crowd is clearly on Federer's side too.Sunil_Prasannan said:Mum's a big Federer fan, she's whooping every time he scores and cursing every time Djokovic scores
He does have the Miliband look about him, but Miliband snr. rather than jnr.0 -
Outstanding news. It is a disgrace, however, that the British national interest may only be protected by the machinations of the Kingdom of Spain.anotherDave said:This is encouraging:
"Spain is blocking Britain’s efforts to opt back in to the European Arrest Warrant, which controls the extradition of criminal suspects between EU member states.
For Britain to opt back in, all other states have to agree."0 -
Well done Lewis Hamilton, we could do with a bit of British sporting success after the last few weeks. 0
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You are cheering a victory for Catholicism, M'Lud?Life_ina_market_town said:
Outstanding news. It is a disgrace, however, that the British national interest may only be protected by the machinations of the Kingdom of Spain.anotherDave said:This is encouraging:
"Spain is blocking Britain’s efforts to opt back in to the European Arrest Warrant, which controls the extradition of criminal suspects between EU member states.
For Britain to opt back in, all other states have to agree."
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Isn’t EAW a good thing; enables police to catch criminals etc?Life_ina_market_town said:
Outstanding news. It is a disgrace, however, that the British national interest may only be protected by the machinations of the Kingdom of Spain.anotherDave said:This is encouraging:
"Spain is blocking Britain’s efforts to opt back in to the European Arrest Warrant, which controls the extradition of criminal suspects between EU member states.
For Britain to opt back in, all other states have to agree."0 -
On topic. I fancy the Conservatives to win this seat now, their choice of candidate might just see Farage opting not to stand in this seat.0
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Djokovic wins second set 6-4 one set apiece now.0
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Welcome back Plato, good to see you on here again!0
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Sunil_Prasannan said:
Djokovic a break up in the 2nd set 2-1.
Thanx Dr Sunil. I was talking about your E Coli expertise on another board just a week ago!
Killer Cucumbers - what a story that was. How long ago did that happen?0 -
I used to use fungal killer on my Peach Weed - do you think that'd work? I had a devil of a problem with it all over my willows and honeysuckle one summer.foxinsoxuk said:
Is that the purple rot that destroys everything non indigenous?
Welcome back Plato!
Ha! LOL0 -
Oh I agree the current ethnic cleansing being carried out against Russians in the Donbass region must be stopped however 'progressive' one might believe such actions to be. The use of heavy weaponry against civilian areas as well as the language used to support it is wholly unacceptable.Socrates said:
Terrible as slavery was, we're not in the Middle Ages any more.FalseFlag said:
One could harp on about the Golden Horde and Christians kidnapped and brought south to the Crimea to be sold as slaves.Socrates said:
We're not in the middle ages any more. This can't be brushed aside as "one of those things".foxinsoxuk said:Mass expulsions are part of the history of the Muslim and Christian world, on both sides. Whether expulsion of Moors from Spain, Turks from The Balkans or Tatars from Crimea. This is counterbalanced by the expulsions and destruction of the Greeks and Armenians in Anatolia and the continuing persecution of Middle Eastern Christians to this day.
The fate of the Tatars is that they were on the losing side of a line of a 1300 year old culture war.
Of course the greatest victims of Lenin, Trotsky and their Bolshevik co conspirators were the Russians themselves. A state against its own people with Russians far and few between in the state apparatus till Russification in the great Patriotic War. Personally though I loathe the left's tendency to cry crocodile tears over crimes that benefit their cause whilst ignoring those that don't. Who, whom is the motivator.
I absolutely agree that the Russians had a terrible experience through communist rule. Ever since the Mongol invasion, Russia has been beset with illiberal autocratic dictators, from the Tsars to the communists to the KGB kleptocrats currently in power. The constitutional, progressive rule from Kiev was replaced by the tyrannical rule of Moscow. But the suffering of the Russians does not justify being rewarded for ethnic cleansing, nor does it justify the invasion and annexation of foreign territory.
The right to self determination must be a cornerstone of British and European policy.
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Aww shucks.fitalass said:
It's like stepping back in time! All the old faces are here, bar one *wink*0 -
I obviously cannot speak for Smarmeron, but I quietly identify with Japanese Knotweed.AveryLP said:@Plato
I used to use fungal killer on my Peach Weed - do you think that'd work? I had a devil of a problem with it all over my willows and honeysuckle one summer.
I fear there is very little known to man which will keep Smarmeron down, Plato.
Although I have heard that Cameron is urging investment in pesticidinal research to combat newly developed immunities.0 -
Fear not. If we withdraw from the framework decision, we will still be subject to the European Convention on Extradition, so the police will still be able to catch criminals. The rights and liberty of the subject will, however, be considerably better preserved.OldKingCole said:Isn’t EAW a good thing; enables police to catch criminals etc?
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Pah - I raise you Cleavers!Toms said:
I quietly identify with Japanese Knotweed.AveryLP said:@Plato
I used to use fungal killer on my Peach Weed - do you think that'd work? I had a devil of a problem with it all over my willows and honeysuckle one summer.
I fear there is very little known to man which will keep Smarmeron down, Plato.
Although I have heard that Cameron is urging investment in pesticidinal research to combat newly developed immunities.
urbanherbology.org/2011/03/25/cleavers-nlkleefkruid-galium-aparine/
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Weeding is an unacceptable form of garden ethnic cleansing. Stand up for the rights of immigrant vegetation, and embrace diversity!Toms said:
I obviously cannot speak for Smarmeron, but I quietly identify with Japanese Knotweed.AveryLP said:@Plato
I used to use fungal killer on my Peach Weed - do you think that'd work? I had a devil of a problem with it all over my willows and honeysuckle one summer.
I fear there is very little known to man which will keep Smarmeron down, Plato.
Although I have heard that Cameron is urging investment in pesticidinal research to combat newly developed immunities.0 -
Good. I look forward to the day when police can co-operate across national borders in Europe as easily as across British county borders now.Life_ina_market_town said:
Fear not. If we withdraw from the framework decision, we will still be subject to the European Convention on Extradition, so the police will still be able to catch criminals. The rights and liberty of the subject will, however, be considerably better preserved.OldKingCole said:Isn’t EAW a good thing; enables police to catch criminals etc?
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Perfect!foxinsoxuk said:
Weeding is an unacceptable form of garden ethnic cleansing. Stand up for the rights of immigrant vegetation, and embrace diversity!Toms said:
I obviously cannot speak for Smarmeron, but I quietly identify with Japanese Knotweed.AveryLP said:@Plato
I used to use fungal killer on my Peach Weed - do you think that'd work? I had a devil of a problem with it all over my willows and honeysuckle one summer.
I fear there is very little known to man which will keep Smarmeron down, Plato.
Although I have heard that Cameron is urging investment in pesticidinal research to combat newly developed immunities.
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On that basis, you would be content if the Greek, Hungarian or Bulgarian police could enter the Metropolitan Police District without informing any British authority, arrest a man without a warrant, remove him from the jurisdiction without the consent of a judge, and subsequently institute proceedings against him in Greece, Hungary or Bulgaria in respect of allegations which occurred within the jurisdiction of the Central Criminal Court? It is an eccentric view, I grant you.OldKingCole said:I look forward to the day when police can co-operate across national borders in Europe as easily as across British county borders now.
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Good afternoon, everyone.
Welcome back, Miss Plato.
Just writing up the post-race piece. Mostly done, looking at the title races.0 -
It's also the reason why Britain has become a safe haven for continental criminals, there are many mafia types living in London from EU countries taking advantage of the low quality of the justice systems in their parent countries to avoid extradition.Life_ina_market_town said:
On that basis, you would be content if the Greek, Hungarian or Bulgarian police could enter the Metropolitan Police District without informing any British authority, arrest a man without a warrant, remove him from the jurisdiction without the consent of a judge, and subsequently institute proceedings against him in Greece, Hungary or Bulgaria in respect of allegations which occurred within the jurisdiction of the Central Criminal Court? It is an eccentric view, I grant you.OldKingCole said:I look forward to the day when police can co-operate across national borders in Europe as easily as across British county borders now.
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Have you not been out watching Le Tour Mr D?Morris_Dancer said:Good afternoon, everyone.
Welcome back, Miss Plato.
Just writing up the post-race piece. Mostly done, looking at the title races.
And nice to see Plato has returned
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The politics of it are bad for all three parties. They all claim to be in favour of a referendum if more powers are passed to the EU. No referendum makes them all liars.Socrates said:
Why on Earth is a party that claims to be eurosceptic handing over significant new powers over to the European Union, without giving the public a say over it? It completely undermines their supposed philosophy.anotherDave said:This is encouraging:
"Spain is blocking Britain’s efforts to opt back in to the European Arrest Warrant, which controls the extradition of criminal suspects between EU member states.
For Britain to opt back in, all other states have to agree."
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2681940/James-Forsyth-Desperate-Nick-sends-MPs-survival-courses.html
http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2014/07/spain-gives-cameron-another-eu-headache.html
For the Conservatives, they will be making the 'Referendum Lock' (the Eu Bill) a feature of their campaign, passing new powers to the EU without a referendum shows that Bill to be worthless.0 -
Works both ways of course. And I don’t suppose the forces you mention are much less competent that the Met sometimes appears to be!Life_ina_market_town said:
On that basis, you would be content if the Greek, Hungarian or Bulgarian police could enter the Metropolitan Police District without informing any British authority, arrest a man without a warrant, remove him from the jurisdiction without the consent of a judge, and subsequently institute proceedings against him in Greece, Hungary or Bulgaria in respect of allegations which occurred within the jurisdiction of the Central Criminal Court? It is an eccentric view, I grant you.OldKingCole said:I look forward to the day when police can co-operate across national borders in Europe as easily as across British county borders now.
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Well yes, along with the right of democratically & legitimately elected governments to use reasonable force against heavily armed foreign-supported-and-supplied insurgents.FalseFlag said:
Oh I agree the current ethnic cleansing being carried out against Russians in the Donbass region must be stopped however 'progressive' one might believe such actions to be. The use of heavy weaponry against civilian areas as well as the language used to support it is wholly unacceptable.Socrates said:
Terrible as slavery was, we're not in the Middle Ages any more.FalseFlag said:
One could harp on about the Golden Horde and Christians kidnapped and brought south to the Crimea to be sold as slaves.Socrates said:
We're not in the middle ages any more. This can't be brushed aside as "one of those things".foxinsoxuk said:Mass expulsions are part of the history of the Muslim and Christian world, on both sides. Whether expulsion of Moors from Spain, Turks from The Balkans or Tatars from Crimea. This is counterbalanced by the expulsions and destruction of the Greeks and Armenians in Anatolia and the continuing persecution of Middle Eastern Christians to this day.
The fate of the Tatars is that they were on the losing side of a line of a 1300 year old culture war.
Of course the greatest victims of Lenin, Trotsky and their Bolshevik co conspirators were the Russians themselves. A state against its own people with Russians far and few between in the state apparatus till Russification in the great Patriotic War. Personally though I loathe the left's tendency to cry crocodile tears over crimes that benefit their cause whilst ignoring those that don't. Who, whom is the motivator.
I absolutely agree that the Russians had a terrible experience through communist rule. Ever since the Mongol invasion, Russia has been beset with illiberal autocratic dictators, from the Tsars to the communists to the KGB kleptocrats currently in power. The constitutional, progressive rule from Kiev was replaced by the tyrannical rule of Moscow. But the suffering of the Russians does not justify being rewarded for ethnic cleansing, nor does it justify the invasion and annexation of foreign territory.
The right to self determination must be a cornerstone of British and European policy.
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To be honest, I don't think his ex UKIP link is going to make a jot of difference, did anybody vote UKIP in the late 90s? I don't even remember the guy.
Narrow Tory hold.
And welcome back cat girl.0 -
Except the democratically elected Government of Ukraine was overthrown.JohnLilburne said:Well yes, along with the right of democratically & legitimately elected governments to use reasonable force against heavily armed foreign-supported-and-supplied insurgents.
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Mackinley was only temp. leader of UKIP for a short while after Sked resigned in 1997, he hasn't been in UKIP for 9 years and he lost badly the PCC for Kent, his political bio isn't impressive and its obvious that he was selected just because he was a UKIP leader.
It will affect only the anti UKIP narrative in S.Thanet thus dooming the Tories if Farage stands, by making it a straight UKIP-Labour fight, but the Tories might not be in it to win it, just to prevent Farage from winning.0 -
F1: post-race analysis now up:
http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/uk-post-race-analysis.html0 -
Mr. Pubgoer, nope.0
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No, it wasn't.This is a flat out lie. Parliament voted to remove the President. The vote was unanimous.Luckyguy1983 said:
Except the democratically elected Government of Ukraine was overthrown.JohnLilburne said:Well yes, along with the right of democratically & legitimately elected governments to use reasonable force against heavily armed foreign-supported-and-supplied insurgents.
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Farage does not have a great record in fpft either.
Lets see if he is all mouth and makes his overdue announcement of where he is going to stand.Speedy said:Mackinley was only temp. leader of UKIP for a short while after Sked resigned in 1997, he hasn't been in UKIP for 9 years and he lost badly the PCC for Kent, his political bio isn't impressive and its obvious that he was selected just because he was a UKIP leader.
It will affect only the anti UKIP narrative in S.Thanet thus dooming the Tories if Farage stands, by making it a straight UKIP-Labour fight, but the Tories might not be in it to win it, just to prevent Farage from winning.0 -
I understand Yanukovich fled following the use of hired thugs to kidnap and murder protesters. There is now another elected government in place. Whatever your views on who should be President, I would still argue that the Ukraine has the right to defend its territorial integrity against a foreign aggressor.Luckyguy1983 said:
Except the democratically elected Government of Ukraine was overthrown.JohnLilburne said:Well yes, along with the right of democratically & legitimately elected governments to use reasonable force against heavily armed foreign-supported-and-supplied insurgents.
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And the May 25th elections were won with such a majority by Poroshenko that he would have won even if the Donbass and Crimean separatists had voted against him.Socrates said:
No, it wasn't.This is a flat out lie. Parliament voted to remove the President. The vote was unanimous.Luckyguy1983 said:
Except the democratically elected Government of Ukraine was overthrown.JohnLilburne said:Well yes, along with the right of democratically & legitimately elected governments to use reasonable force against heavily armed foreign-supported-and-supplied insurgents.
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No ethnic cleansing is being carried out against Russians in Donetsk. This is simply a made up lie. You will not be able to produce any credible source to back it. The Ukrainian government needs to use its weapons because in the two ceasefires it has agreed so far, the pro-Russian militias have repeatedly attacked Ukrainian military forces during them, including the shooting down of a helicopter.FalseFlag said:
Oh I agree the current ethnic cleansing being carried out against Russians in the Donbass region must be stopped however 'progressive' one might believe such actions to be. The use of heavy weaponry against civilian areas as well as the language used to support it is wholly unacceptable.Socrates said:
Terrible as slavery was, we're not in the Middle Ages any more.FalseFlag said:
One could harp on about the Golden Horde and Christians kidnapped and brought south to the Crimea to be sold as slaves.Socrates said:
We're not in the middle ages any more. This can't be brushed aside as "one of those things".foxinsoxuk said:Mass expulsions are part of the history of the Muslim and Christian world, on both sides. Whether expulsion of Moors from Spain, Turks from The Balkans or Tatars from Crimea. This is counterbalanced by the expulsions and destruction of the Greeks and Armenians in Anatolia and the continuing persecution of Middle Eastern Christians to this day.
The fate of the Tatars is that they were on the losing side of a line of a 1300 year old culture war.
Of course the greatest victims of Lenin, Trotsky and their Bolshevik co conspirators were the Russians themselves. A state against its own people with Russians far and few between in the state apparatus till Russification in the great Patriotic War. Personally though I loathe the left's tendency to cry crocodile tears over crimes that benefit their cause whilst ignoring those that don't. Who, whom is the motivator.
I absolutely agree that the Russians had a terrible experience through communist rule. Ever since the Mongol invasion, Russia has been beset with illiberal autocratic dictators, from the Tsars to the communists to the KGB kleptocrats currently in power. The constitutional, progressive rule from Kiev was replaced by the tyrannical rule of Moscow. But the suffering of the Russians does not justify being rewarded for ethnic cleansing, nor does it justify the invasion and annexation of foreign territory.
The right to self determination must be a cornerstone of British and European policy.
Let us be honest here. You support Russian aggressiveness because you dislike the liberal democratic West, and prefer a society that violently attacks gays and is conspiratorial against Jews.0 -
UKIP when founded was a different beast to what it is now. Alan Sked was on the left. I do not see how it neuters Tory attacks.
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"Call for a public inquiry into historic child abuse: Forget the expenses scandal. If MPs have harboured paedophiles, the damage to British democracy will be fatal says MP SIMON DANCZUK":
Http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2681949/Call-public-inquiry-historic-child-abuse-Forget-expenses-scandal-If-MPs-harboured-paedophiles-damage-British-democracy-fatal-says-MP-SIMON-DANCZUK.html0 -
It is amazing who has joined the Putinistas, the Left who were Soviet fellow travellers during the Cold War seem to be supporting him as well.Socrates said:
Let us be honest here. You support Russian aggressiveness because you dislike the liberal democratic West, and prefer a society that violently attacks gays and is conspiratorial against Jews.FalseFlag said:
Oh I agree the current ethnic cleansing being carried out against Russians in the Donbass region must be stopped however 'progressive' one might believe such actions to be. The use of heavy weaponry against civilian areas as well as the language used to support it is wholly unacceptable.Socrates said:
Terrible as slavery was, we're not in the Middle Ages any more.FalseFlag said:
One could harp on about the Golden Horde and Christians kidnapped and brought south to the Crimea to be sold as slaves.Socrates said:
We're not in the middle ages any more. This can't be brushed aside as "one of those things".foxinsoxuk said:Mass expulsions are part of the history of the Muslim and Christian world, on both sides. Whether expulsion of Moors from Spain, Turks from The Balkans or Tatars from Crimea. This is counterbalanced by the expulsions and destruction of the Greeks and Armenians in Anatolia and the continuing persecution of Middle Eastern Christians to this day.
The fate of the Tatars is that they were on the losing side of a line of a 1300 year old culture war.
Of course the greatest victims of Lenin, Trotsky and their Bolshevik co conspirators were the Russians themselves. A state against its own people with Russians far and few between in the state apparatus till Russification in the great Patriotic War. Personally though I loathe the left's tendency to cry crocodile tears over crimes that benefit their cause whilst ignoring those that don't. Who, whom is the motivator.
I absolutely agree that the Russians had a terrible experience through communist rule. Ever since the Mongol invasion, Russia has been beset with illiberal autocratic dictators, from the Tsars to the communists to the KGB kleptocrats currently in power. The constitutional, progressive rule from Kiev was replaced by the tyrannical rule of Moscow. But the suffering of the Russians does not justify being rewarded for ethnic cleansing, nor does it justify the invasion and annexation of foreign territory.
The right to self determination must be a cornerstone of British and European policy.
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The Conservatives current stance is to offer a referendum on the EU. It would be amazing if Mackinlay did not agree with that.Luckyguy1983 said:
That surely cuts both ways. Not to mention the fact that the extensive statements he will have made against our continued membership of the EU will have to be squared with the Conservative's current stance.AveryLP said:Farage is less likely to stand in South Thanet than he was on Friday morning.
A chartered accountant who was leader of UKIP in 1997 and deputy leader from 1997-2000 is someone with too many weapons in his armoury.
Unlike Geoffrey Dickens, he would have understood the power of a photocopier.0 -
It is certainly not a lie, and frankly the use of such an loaded epithet is a sign of immense weakness of argument. The government was overthrown and a transitional government was put in place. What the parliament voted on was to legitimise that process. You can perhaps tell us by what provision of the Ukrainian constitution that this was achieved -maybe one of your credible publications can tell us.Socrates said:
No, it wasn't.This is a flat out lie. Parliament voted to remove the President. The vote was unanimous.Luckyguy1983 said:
Except the democratically elected Government of Ukraine was overthrown.JohnLilburne said:Well yes, along with the right of democratically & legitimately elected governments to use reasonable force against heavily armed foreign-supported-and-supplied insurgents.
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Welcome back Plato. How are your cats?0
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MacKinlay is just an eurosceptic who shuns necrophilia and dodgy accounting.Flightpath said:
The Conservatives current stance is to offer a referendum on the EU. It would be amazing if Mackinlay did not agree with that.Luckyguy1983 said:
That surely cuts both ways. Not to mention the fact that the extensive statements he will have made against our continued membership of the EU will have to be squared with the Conservative's current stance.AveryLP said:Farage is less likely to stand in South Thanet than he was on Friday morning.
A chartered accountant who was leader of UKIP in 1997 and deputy leader from 1997-2000 is someone with too many weapons in his armoury.
Unlike Geoffrey Dickens, he would have understood the power of a photocopier.
A natural conservative.
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Rather hyperbolic. If MPs have harboured paedophiles it will be an immense scandal, but not fatal to our democracy. Indeed it would be a vindication of independent minded MPs and a free pressAndyJS said:
"Call for a public inquiry into historic child abuse: Forget the expenses scandal. If MPs have harboured paedophiles, the damage to British democracy will be fatal says MP SIMON DANCZUK":
Http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2681949/Call-public-inquiry-historic-child-abuse-Forget-expenses-scandal-If-MPs-harboured-paedophiles-damage-British-democracy-fatal-says-MP-SIMON-DANCZUK.html0 -
This post is a disaster. First use the 'lie' word, even 'made up lie' -is that even worse than a non-made up lie?Socrates said:
No ethnic cleansing is being carried out against Russians in Donetsk. This is simply a made up lie. You will not be able to produce any credible source to back it. The Ukrainian government needs to use its weapons because in the two ceasefires it has agreed so far, the pro-Russian militias have repeatedly attacked Ukrainian military forces during them, including the shooting down of a helicopter.
Let us be honest here. You support Russian aggressiveness because you dislike the liberal democratic West, and prefer a society that violently attacks gays and is conspiratorial against Jews.
Then demanding a 'credible source'. As we've found, there's no objective measure of what you would describe as a credible source, except that they don't subscribe to certain views -an entirely subjective measure. A credible source is one that you agree with -so obviously there will be no 'credible' source for what he is alleging.
Your justification of mass shelling of civilian areas is especially pitiful considering this is precisely what you have described in Syria as 'Assad butchering/slaughtering/murdering (insert emotive verb here) his own people'.
As for your last flourish -it's kinder not to comment.
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Simply brilliant tennis from Federer.0
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Henry G Manson's tip Federer earlier could be a winner0
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I've been looking for a reason to force myself to post less on here. Looks like one's turned up!0
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Are you aware of who these allegations are aimed at? Not sure you'd be so sanguine if so!foxinsoxuk said:Rather hyperbolic. If MPs have harboured paedophiles it will be an immense scandal, but not fatal to our democracy. Indeed it would be a vindication of independent minded MPs and a free press
AndyJS said:"Call for a public inquiry into historic child abuse: Forget the expenses scandal. If MPs have harboured paedophiles, the damage to British democracy will be fatal says MP SIMON DANCZUK":
Http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2681949/Call-public-inquiry-historic-child-abuse-Forget-expenses-scandal-If-MPs-harboured-paedophiles-damage-British-democracy-fatal-says-MP-SIMON-DANCZUK.html0 -
This selection may well have tipped Farage over the line, if you want UKIP, you will vote UKIP, not UKIP lite, meanwhile Labour becomes the main alternative for anyone, including a few Tories, who want to stay in the EU, but this seat is not classic Labour territory outside of very good years and Farage will fancy his chances with no incumbent0
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Looks like a good Tory hold to me. A Tory candidate with a known firm view on Europe should stop slippage to UKIP if Farage stands. Wonder if he will now find a pressing reason not to stand at all.0
