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What YouGov was reporting a year ago today – politicalbetting.com

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  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,012
    edited April 2021
    MattW said:

    OT:

    Hmmm. Seamus Heaney the 'language steeped in British cultural traditions' writer.

    I'd agree on Andrea Levy. Not sure I'd argue for Seamus Heaney.

    https://twitter.com/aylwyn_scally/status/1378383982514089984

    The great Heaney was
    born in Northern Ireland - part of today's commonwealth
    wrote in English
    was culturally Hiberno-British
    died in the most British part of Ireland, an area speaking English
    is buried in Northern Ireland
    is loved, read and admired throughout the Irish, British and English speaking world

    and

    is as good a reason as any I can think of why the people of these islands can get on together.

    Could we respect him and read him, and not appropriate him?
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    ydoethur said:

    The way the boundaries were being drawn, with Anglesey protected, that Labour seat is in effect the only one that goes.

    There might be a bit of a scuffle between the MP for Montgomeryshire and one of the Clwyd seats, but elsewhere it’s as you were.

    In the south west, helpfully, the redrawn seats pitch incumbent Tories against incumbent PC.
    On the basis of current national polls Labour would be likely to reverse its 2019 losses in NE Wales. The idea that this area has been shifting to the Tories over time is not really supported by electoral data. To take Delyn as an example, the Tory majority there in 1987 - never mind 1983 - was bigger than achieved in 2019. Keith Raffan was then still a Tory - and the incumbent.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,295
    Leon said:

    I've done it multiple times. Once when I was about to miss a plane flying out of Fort Lauderdale, Fla, and returning the car AND pulling over for a pee would have wasted too much time. I peed in a bottle

    It is often more hygienic than going to some concrete corner and doing your biz, as long as you dispose of the bottle sensibly
    Is there anyone who hasn't done this at some time?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,689
    Leon said:

    Just been to my first social engagement since.... God knows. A barbecue in bouji NW London. Freezing but great fun. Quite emotional

    In truth probably my first relaxed social thing for a year: the first time with a sense of real freedom, at least on the horizon

    It could be a one-off, or it could be indicative, but it was notably hedonistic. Think middle aged housewives doing lines of coke off the kitchen table (from John Lewis). If it is indicative, then we are in for a rip roaring 2020s

    Pathetic. I don't imagine that the drug mules who supply them with their shit get to buy many John Lewis tables. They should have their collars felt.

    And they shouldn't be congregating in the kitchen either.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,939
    algarkirk said:

    The great Heaney was
    born in Northern Ireland - part of today's commonwealth
    wrote in English
    was culturally Hiberno-British
    died in the most British part of Ireland, an area speaking English
    is buried in Northern Ireland
    is loved, read and admired throughout the Irish, British and English speaking world

    and

    is as good a reason as any I can think of why the people of these islands can get on together.

    Could we respect him and read him, and not appropriate him?
    We should all be digging him?
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,022
    Leon said:

    Alan Duncan is the short man's short man
    You'll have to explain that one.

    In this instance Duncan appears to be pretty much in line with everyone else whose dealt with Johnson.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,295
    Leon said:

    Hard to say. At least the new London towers have the vigour of height. The problem is the proximity of London City Airport and Heathrow means there is a ceiling on scale - the Shard is as high as you can go, because of CAA safety limits.

    This is the reason Canary Wharf is gaining an unpleasant table top appearance, when a pyramidal effect is generally considered more aesthetically pleasing: ie one massive tower with others being supportive but smaller

    On the other hand I thought 22 Bishopsgate was an unmediated disaster (compared to the Pinnacle which was meant to be there) but from some angles (eg the South Bank) is works really well

    https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/photo/man-stands-looking-at-the-city-of-london-on-a-snowy-royalty-free-image/1303332198?adppopup=true
    If you look a photos of the Docklands area from 1990 to 2000 the only tower you can see is One Canada Square. I think it looked quite good like that.

    https://www.shutterstock.com/editorial/image-editorial/london-docklands-skyline-canary-wharf-1996-picture-1079783a
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,295

    That really is going to cause a fabulous number of law suits if they push ahead with it.

    No legal requirement to have the app but you are not allowed back into the office without it.
    Companies try to force people to have the app - which is a change in their terms and conditions.
    People refuse.
    Company left with choice. Sack people and face unfair dismissal legal action or back down and people allowed to work from home indefinitely.

    The Government are genuinely mad if they try to force this through.
    What about people without smartphones? If it's 25% of the population as a whole, it must be over a third of the 40+ population.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,806

    I'm not sure how. Their candidates can't even promise action on travellers pitching camp where they oughtn't without the party's entire left flank having a collective meltdown.

    That is, I know all this culture wars crap is both corrosive and a deep inconvenience, but it can't just be wished away given what kind of organisation the Labour Party has become. I'm not sure that the leadership can even propose an increase in police numbers without the Corbyn movement going into spasm. A lot of them think the police are the enemy. And stop and search is bound to come up as well before very long, too...
    Eloquently put.

    I feel for Starmer. He is like a doctor who entirely understands the problem, diagnoses it correctly, sees it is a bacterial infection - but is legally unable to administer anti-biotics, or he will lose his job.

    So he is only allowed to make positive noises, and do non medical therapeutic interventions (drink lots of water! get lots of rest!) in the hope that Labour recovers

    Meanwhile the Tories are playing drill music next door 24/7, and denying the supply of water
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 2,108
    Floater said:
    The two hydro electric plants this estate supplies are a major part of the local economy. The sporting rights are incidental.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    You'll have to explain that one.

    In this instance Duncan appears to be pretty much in line with everyone else whose dealt with Johnson.
    I skimmed the mail serialisation but got bored very quickly

    Basically he was rude about everyone who was promoted when his undoubtedly magnificent talents (at least in his own mind) were overlooked.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,806
    RobD said:

    That doesn't make him an unbiased observer.
    Duncan is a zealous and idiotic Remoaner, who loathes Johnson and Brexit, and has striven to hide this, and has failed completely, time and again. Ignore

    "Sir Alan Duncan's long campaign to destroy the career of Boris Johnson "

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/22/sir-alan-duncans-long-campaign-destroy-career-boris-johnson/
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,234
    Leon said:

    Just been to my first social engagement since.... God knows. A barbecue in bouji NW London. Freezing but great fun. Quite emotional

    In truth probably my first relaxed social thing for a year: the first time with a sense of real freedom, at least on the horizon

    It could be a one-off, or it could be indicative, but it was notably hedonistic. Think middle aged housewives doing lines of coke off the kitchen table (from John Lewis). If it is indicative, then we are in for a rip roaring 2020s

    Wonder if there is more coke about in London compared to the rest of the UK
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,295
    I love this guy's uploads. He ought to get a knighthood IMO.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnyVInblipE
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,548
    edited April 2021

    It doesn't appear to me as if there are sufficient seats in the North to go round for the available Tory MPs, even if we assume that the successor to the current Alyn & Deeside flips Lab to Con and that one extra seat is added, relative to the 2019 proposals, since Wales is now to receive 32 rather than 29 MPs. I guess that whoever is left without a chair when the music stops will be sent to try to lift Ceredigion plus whatever gets tacked onto it from Plaid, although then again I'm not sure I'd much fancy their chances. They might actually have more luck trying to prise Llanelli away from Labour, if it ends up having some more rural hinterland tacked onto it.
    Stephen Crabbe will be the candidate in Ceredigion and North Pembs unless he retires.

    Edit - and I would very much fancy their chances there, on current boundaries it would be a fairly comfortable Tory hold.

    Llanelli is another one the Tories might begin to challenge in.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,400
    Andy_JS said:

    What about people without smartphones? If it's 25% of the population as a whole, it must be over a third of the 40+ population.
    People who work in offices - even those in the 40 to 65 cohort - are 99% likely to have smartphones.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,400
    Leon said:

    No, the Kentish Variant was a total googly
    You can tell that yourself if you like, but I remember being ridiculed on here when I forecast in September that the case rises that we were seeing in Europe were going to come to the UK too.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,806
    Andy_JS said:

    If you look a photos of the Docklands area from 1990 to 2000 the only tower you can see is One Canada Square. I think it looked quite good like that.

    https://www.shutterstock.com/editorial/image-editorial/london-docklands-skyline-canary-wharf-1996-picture-1079783a
    Yes, generally one tower looks better than many, or the one biggest tower has to loom over the others. This aesthetic ideal has now been lost in Canary Wharf, entirely

    Imagine the Eiffel Tower surrounded by many similar towers almost as high. It would be meaningless. Despite its impressive height, all impact would be lost. It would be forgotten (as we are now forgetting the Gherkin)

    However we do have one singular Eiffel Tower-like Tower: the Shard, which is a masterpiece. if Sadiq Khan can do one good thing in his mayoralty, it is this: forbid the construction of any other towers in the vicinity of The Shard.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,821
    Leon said:

    Just been to my first social engagement since.... God knows. A barbecue in bouji NW London. Freezing but great fun. Quite emotional

    In truth probably my first relaxed social thing for a year: the first time with a sense of real freedom, at least on the horizon

    It could be a one-off, or it could be indicative, but it was notably hedonistic. Think middle aged housewives doing lines of coke off the kitchen table (from John Lewis). If it is indicative, then we are in for a rip roaring 2020s

    Ditto, sort of. Only from a much lower base. Two-family back garden social. My first alcoholic drinks for six and a half months. You know that taste you get when beer is unexpectedly strong? When you haven't drunk for a while, that's how all beer tastes.
    Our host had basically built a small pub in a back garden. It was built to be the exact size needed for a pool table, plus a bar. It is a thing of joy and will become our venue of choice if you end up having to wear facemasks to go to real pubs.
    Oh, and not freezing at all in South Manchester - shorts and t-shirts weather.
    But I agree with your conclusion - the 20s will be a cascade of hedonism, if we can get through them without another pandemic, world war three or a descent into a surveillance state.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,400
    Pagan2 said:

    I still don't understand what vaxport advocates think these things are going to accomplish in the first place. If I am vaccinated and have a vax port and catch covid I will still be mixing with them just like I would be if there was no passport.

    If R shoots up despite everyone being vaccinated then we just have to live with it or accept a lockdown for evermore.
    This is the fundamental point.

    The vaxport brings exactly zero benefits, will cost billions (remind me how much track and trace wasted?), and impinges on civil liberties.

    I'm struggling to think of a single good thing about it.

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,536
    rcs1000 said:

    People who work in offices - even those in the 40 to 65 cohort - are 99% likely to have smartphones.
    Do you know, I didn't get one until 2016 (when I was 29). And that was only because my sister insisted I have one.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,548
    rcs1000 said:

    This is the fundamental point.

    The vaxport brings exactly zero benefits, will cost billions (remind me how much track and trace wasted?), and impinges on civil liberties.

    I'm struggling to think of a single good thing about it.

    It's made everyone remember the government are usually incompetent and the vaccines were an exception not the rule?

    Good night.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,806
    Cookie said:

    Ditto, sort of. Only from a much lower base. Two-family back garden social. My first alcoholic drinks for six and a half months. You know that taste you get when beer is unexpectedly strong? When you haven't drunk for a while, that's how all beer tastes.
    Our host had basically built a small pub in a back garden. It was built to be the exact size needed for a pool table, plus a bar. It is a thing of joy and will become our venue of choice if you end up having to wear facemasks to go to real pubs.
    Oh, and not freezing at all in South Manchester - shorts and t-shirts weather.
    But I agree with your conclusion - the 20s will be a cascade of hedonism, if we can get through them without another pandemic, world war three or a descent into a surveillance state.
    Not freezing in Manc?!? London is about minus 10

    The booze and the drugs masked it well, however. In the end
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    justin124 said:

    On the basis of current national polls Labour would be likely to reverse its 2019 losses in NE Wales. The idea that this area has been shifting to the Tories over time is not really supported by electoral data. To take Delyn as an example, the Tory majority there in 1987 - never mind 1983 - was bigger than achieved in 2019. Keith Raffan was then still a Tory - and the incumbent.
    It depends whether these kinds of seats have been subject to an easily reversible shift, or have flipped over. The five northern English seats that Theresa May's Tories managed to narrowly capture from Labour in 2017 all returned their incumbents again in 2019, that time with five-figure majorities.

    Thus, it is possible that moderate nationwide swings to Labour might cause them to revert, but it's also possible that - previous allegiances and voting habits having been broken - they'll become more typical Tory territory. Time will tell.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,823
    rcs1000 said:

    This is the fundamental point.

    The vaxport brings exactly zero benefits, will cost billions (remind me how much track and trace wasted?), and impinges on civil liberties.

    I'm struggling to think of a single good thing about it.

    Yes it's completely ridiculous how the whole government seems to have been captured by this idiotic thinking. The vaccines are the way out of this and we will have 90%+ adults vaccinated by the end of June and 95%+ by the end of July once the J&J "jab and go" scheme is introduced for under 25s.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,400
    tlg86 said:

    Do you know, I didn't get one until 2016 (when I was 29). And that was only because my sister insisted I have one.
    That was still five years ago, when the number of good, cheap smartphones was very small.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,109
    rcs1000 said:

    You can tell that yourself if you like, but I remember being ridiculed on here when I forecast in September that the case rises that we were seeing in Europe were going to come to the UK too.
    My recollection is that it was the other way around; I was in Italy and Germany during September watching case numbers start to rise in the Uk while both of those countries had low incidence. The warmer weather left Southern Europe later.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,400
    Leon said:

    Yes, generally one tower looks better than many, or the one biggest tower has to loom over the others. This aesthetic ideal has now been lost in Canary Wharf, entirely

    Imagine the Eiffel Tower surrounded by many similar towers almost as high. It would be meaningless. Despite its impressive height, all impact would be lost. It would be forgotten (as we are now forgetting the Gherkin)

    However we do have one singular Eiffel Tower-like Tower: the Shard, which is a masterpiece. if Sadiq Khan can do one good thing in his mayoralty, it is this: forbid the construction of any other towers in the vicinity of The Shard.
    Damn right. New York would look so much better if they got rid of all but one of those stupid skyscrapers.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,295
    "Jeremy Corbyn addresses tens of thousands of London Kill the Bill activists in defiance of Covid rules - before scuffles with police break out in Parliament Square after marches across the UK"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9432715/Thousands-Kill-Bill-activists-march-central-London.html
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,536
    ydoethur said:

    It's made everyone remember the government are usually incompetent and the vaccines were an exception not the rule?

    Good night.
    The only reasonable explanation is if they are floating this stuff to get people to get vaccinated. They'll never be able to admit it, but it's the only thing that makes sense.

    If they are genuinely going to do this...
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited April 2021
    Leon said:

    Duncan is a zealous and idiotic Remoaner, who loathes Johnson and Brexit, and has striven to hide this, and has failed completely, time and again. Ignore

    "Sir Alan Duncan's long campaign to destroy the career of Boris Johnson "

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/22/sir-alan-duncans-long-campaign-destroy-career-boris-johnson/
    He really is a pipsqueak of the most glorious ineffectuality. I'd forgotten about his hilarious self-own from 2019:

    https://twitter.com/Zaatart/status/1153335536838500352
    What he discovered, dear reader, is that the answer was 'Yes!'
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,360
    Andy_JS said:

    What about people without smartphones? If it's 25% of the population as a whole, it must be over a third of the 40+ population.
    So the possibilities.
    1 The Johnson government has already reached the "in the bunker detached from reality" phase that Thatcher reached in about 1989 and none of her successors really attained.

    2 They know it's a scam, it's never going to happen, but the calculation is that it's in their partisan interest to propose it. Either because it polls well now, or it will allow a " we're so great, we don't need to do this after all" moment in three months' time.

    I must have missed something else for 3.

    To restate the b#++@#y obvious;

    The UK has already done enough jabs to stop pretty much all the foreseeable Covid deaths; say 90%. The EU isn't there yet, but will be there in a few weeks' time.

    The UK will hit herd immunity in June and everyone who can be done will be done in July.

    The time window where vaxports are needed internally is really short. So the benefits don't outweigh the costs in cash and national cohesion.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,657

    To be fair he was in the Commonwealth for the first 10 years of his life :)
    For the first 40-ish.

    He lived in NI until 1976 (?).

    UK is in the Commonwealth.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    ydoethur said:

    Stephen Crabbe will be the candidate in Ceredigion and North Pembs unless he retires.

    Edit - and I would very much fancy their chances there, on current boundaries it would be a fairly comfortable Tory hold.

    Llanelli is another one the Tories might begin to challenge in.
    Cardigan has never elected a Tory as far as I know - it was Labour-held by Elystan Morgan 1966 - Feb 1974. Rural North Pembrokeshire tends to be less favourable for the Tories than South Pembrokeshire - with significant pockets of support for Plaid and - periodically - the LDs. Tactical anti - Tory voting there might be more effective than many assume.
    Crabb is not a natural fit there and most of his current seat would be likely to fall into the residual Pembroke seat. He is a Scot by birth - and not obviously culturally Welsh really.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    edited April 2021

    It depends whether these kinds of seats have been subject to an easily reversible shift, or have flipped over. The five northern English seats that Theresa May's Tories managed to narrowly capture from Labour in 2017 all returned their incumbents again in 2019, that time with five-figure majorities.

    Thus, it is possible that moderate nationwide swings to Labour might cause them to revert, but it's also possible that - previous allegiances and voting habits having been broken - they'll become more typical Tory territory. Time will tell.
    We do have the recent example of the Vale of Clwyd which was one of the Tory gains from Labour in 2015. Labour took it back in 2017 - only to see it fall again in 2019. No clear pattern there!
    Gower also fell to the Tories in 2015 only to see Labour regain it in 2017 - and retain in 2019.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,400
    IanB2 said:

    My recollection is that it was the other way around; I was in Italy and Germany during September watching case numbers start to rise in the Uk while both of those countries had low incidence. The warmer weather left Southern Europe later.
    It was Spain first, where they opened the nightclubs and tried to get a summer holiday season.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,821
    Leon said:

    Not freezing in Manc?!? London is about minus 10

    The booze and the drugs masked it well, however. In the end
    Leon said:

    Not freezing in Manc?!? London is about minus 10

    The booze and the drugs masked it well, however. In the end
    At the risk of derailing a promising and possibly salacious conversation about drugs and debauchery by wittering on about the weather, yes, it was absolutely glorious. Not a cloud in the sky. Go-home-and-change-into-shorts weather. Sunburn weather. Cold after the sun passed behind the roofs though. In my defence hot, cloudless Easter Saturdays in Greater Manchester are considerably more unusual than drugs in North London.

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,823
    Leon said:

    Yes, generally one tower looks better than many, or the one biggest tower has to loom over the others. This aesthetic ideal has now been lost in Canary Wharf, entirely

    Imagine the Eiffel Tower surrounded by many similar towers almost as high. It would be meaningless. Despite its impressive height, all impact would be lost. It would be forgotten (as we are now forgetting the Gherkin)

    However we do have one singular Eiffel Tower-like Tower: the Shard, which is a masterpiece. if Sadiq Khan can do one good thing in his mayoralty, it is this: forbid the construction of any other towers in the vicinity of The Shard.
    The Shard is good because it's on the wrong side of the river and gives a great view of the right side of river and especially the square mile. Otherwise it's far from being a masterpiece. The cheese grater is probably my favourite building in London from an architectural perspective. Our new building is pretty nice too (100 Liverpool Street) the terraces will be absolutely amazing in the summer for a post work beer, it's not a particularly tall building though.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,548
    edited April 2021
    justin124 said:

    Cardigan has never elected a Tory as far as I know - it was Labour-held by Elystan Morgan 1966 - Feb 1974. Rural North Pembrokeshire tends to be less favourable for the Tories than South Pembrokeshire - with significant pockets of support for Plaid and - periodically - the LDs. Tactical anti - Tory voting there might be more effective than many assume.
    Crabb is not a natural fit there and most of his current seat would be likely to fall into the residual Pembroke seat. He is a Scot by birth - and not obviously culturally Welsh really.
    On the proposed boundaries, in 2019, the figures were Con 30,260 Lab 22,636 and Plaid 17,984.

    Plaid simply didn’t register in Preseli while in Ceredigion the Tories managed a solid second place.

    That’s a pretty safe Tory seat. I can’t help it if you don’t like the figures, those remain the figures. Even if Stephen Crabbe lost every single vote the Tories won in Ceredigion, he would still win the seat ahead of Labour. He’s that far ahead.

    And this time, it really is good night.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    justin124 said:

    Cardigan has never elected a Tory as far as I know - it was Labour-held by Elystan Morgan 1966 - Feb 1974. Rural North Pembrokeshire tends to be less favourable for the Tories than South Pembrokeshire - with significant pockets of support for Plaid and - periodically - the LDs. Tactical anti - Tory voting there might be more effective than many assume.
    Crabb is not a natural fit there and most of his current seat would be likely to fall into the residual Pembroke seat. He is a Scot by birth - and not obviously culturally Welsh really.
    Quite. If the net effect of the boundary changes is not dissimilar to those previously proposed in 2018, then one would've thought that the two sitting Tories in the South West would go for the Carmarthen and Pembroke seats and leave the Ceredigion one well alone.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,536
    MaxPB said:

    The Shard is good because it's on the wrong side of the river and gives a great view of the right side of river and especially the square mile. Otherwise it's far from being a masterpiece. The cheese grater is probably my favourite building in London from an architectural perspective. Our new building is pretty nice too (100 Liverpool Street) the terraces will be absolutely amazing in the summer for a post work beer, it's not a particularly tall building though.
    This was the view from my desk pre-lockdown:

    https://1drv.ms/u/s!Av4jQcUMVtBpjgJaryMZ90mDP0Sn
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,806
    MaxPB said:

    The Shard is good because it's on the wrong side of the river and gives a great view of the right side of river and especially the square mile. Otherwise it's far from being a masterpiece. The cheese grater is probably my favourite building in London from an architectural perspective. Our new building is pretty nice too (100 Liverpool Street) the terraces will be absolutely amazing in the summer for a post work beer, it's not a particularly tall building though.
    The Shard is a slam-dunk masterpiece. It is the only skyscraper in Europe when, as you walk out of the nearest Tube (or Metro, or Subway) you look up every time and go Wow!

    Its isolation helps, but also crucial is the way it fades into nothing, making it appear much taller than it is. Jean Nouvel's Tower Without End (Tour Sans Fins) was meant to do the same, but never got built

    https://en.phorio.com/tour_sans_fins,_paris,_france

    http://www.jeannouvel.com/en/projects/tour-sans-fins/

    Londoners should cherish it as much as St Paul's Cathedral, it is that good. I fear they won't
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,821
    Andy_JS said:

    If you look a photos of the Docklands area from 1990 to 2000 the only tower you can see is One Canada Square. I think it looked quite good like that.

    https://www.shutterstock.com/editorial/image-editorial/london-docklands-skyline-canary-wharf-1996-picture-1079783a
    British architects will not seem to countenance buildings which reflect the historical buildings around them. 'Pastiche!', they cry. Yet the buildings around them are often very nice. Why can't we, in Manchester, have gothic skyscrapers to match the gothic style of the best of our Victoriana? Because that would be a pastiche, apparently. But I don't see why that would be bad.
    If anyone wants to discuss this further the subject geta an airing roughly twice a day over on the skyscraper city blog.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,482
    Evening all :)

    So it seems after one cold afternoon in a garden, it's the 1920s redux. Great - hyperinflation and the charleston and no doubt we'll all be talking flappers (or something similar).

    Back in the real world, I'm sure this year will see an outpouring of normality before we get back to normal. Perceived hedonism, rather like imagining one has become enormously attractive to the opposite or same sex (delete as appropriate), is probably a latent effect of lockdown stress brought on by having too much time and not doing anything constructive with it.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,548
    Scott_xP said:
    Please respect John's privacy at this difficult time.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,806
    tlg86 said:

    This was the view from my desk pre-lockdown:

    https://1drv.ms/u/s!Av4jQcUMVtBpjgJaryMZ90mDP0Sn
    That is a truly wonderful view. The Shard stands alone, and sublime.

    If only we could knock down Guy's Hospital, which is one of the ugliest buildings in the entire world, it would look even better
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,338
    algarkirk said:

    The great Heaney was
    born in Northern Ireland - part of today's commonwealth
    wrote in English
    was culturally Hiberno-British
    died in the most British part of Ireland, an area speaking English
    is buried in Northern Ireland
    is loved, read and admired throughout the Irish, British and English speaking world

    and

    is as good a reason as any I can think of why the people of these islands can get on together.

    Could we respect him and read him, and not appropriate him?
    Kudos for not involving yourself in any of that vulgar appropriating business.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,548
    MaxPB said:

    Yes it's completely ridiculous how the whole government seems to have been captured by this idiotic thinking. The vaccines are the way out of this and we will have 90%+ adults vaccinated by the end of June and 95%+ by the end of July once the J&J "jab and go" scheme is introduced for under 25s.
    Janet Daley asks in tomorrow's Telegraph: "How did a free people become so relaxed about losing their liberty?"

    She might well ask.

    I am being told repeatedly that covid tracking mega app is what The People want.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,929
    Can we agree if nothing else that "vaxport" is a horrible word?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,823
    tlg86 said:

    This was the view from my desk pre-lockdown:

    https://1drv.ms/u/s!Av4jQcUMVtBpjgJaryMZ90mDP0Sn
    Nice, mine was of the Thames but I wasn't lucky enough to be next to a window so it was just other desks/people really.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,548
    Pulpstar said:

    Wonder if there is more coke about in London compared to the rest of the UK
    You think? :smile:
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,806
    Cookie said:

    British architects will not seem to countenance buildings which reflect the historical buildings around them. 'Pastiche!', they cry. Yet the buildings around them are often very nice. Why can't we, in Manchester, have gothic skyscrapers to match the gothic style of the best of our Victoriana? Because that would be a pastiche, apparently. But I don't see why that would be bad.
    If anyone wants to discuss this further the subject geta an airing roughly twice a day over on the skyscraper city blog.
    I love skyscraper city

    Yes the argument over "pastiche" is nuts

    The Houses of Parliament are pastiche Gothic. St Paul's is pastiche classical. Almost any building is, in some sense, "pastiche".

    The curlicues on top of Corinthian columns, in classical times, are "pastiche" nature - meant to resemble foliage. The little blocks you get on fundamental classical pediments - the "dentils" - are a pastiche of the ends of rafters in earlier wooden buildings

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dentil
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,311
    Leon said:

    Duncan is a zealous and idiotic Remoaner, who loathes Johnson and Brexit, and has striven to hide this, and has failed completely, time and again. Ignore

    "Sir Alan Duncan's long campaign to destroy the career of Boris Johnson "

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/22/sir-alan-duncans-long-campaign-destroy-career-boris-johnson/
    Cummings turned him down (rudely, as you'd expect) to be the mouthpiece of Vote Leave.

    I think with Alan Duncan there's nothing more political than a personal grudge.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,360

    Can we agree if nothing else that "vaxport" is a horrible word?

    Abslouement.

    It's a horrible word for a horrible idea.

    We entered Covidtide together. We suffered together; some more than others. If there is such a thing as society, we should leave it together.

    (Especially if we're talking about a few weeks, which we are.)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,234
    edited April 2021
    Well, he's dropped #FBPE from his twitter bio,,,

    https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1378338963312803841
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,526
    edited April 2021
    Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime Starmer....large chunks of his own party will scream racist if he advocates things like more stop and search, tougher sentencing for knife crime and drug dealing...as they do when the Tories wibble about doing such things.

    Just look at their reaction when Boris said about not releasing dangerous terrorists early from jail or letting them back into the country.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    Quite. If the net effect of the boundary changes is not dissimilar to those previously proposed in 2018, then one would've thought that the two sitting Tories in the South West would go for the Carmarthen and Pembroke seats and leave the Ceredigion one well alone.
    The Carmarthen seat would be a likely Plaid hold - and Pembroke would be vulnerable to Labour in a reasonable year as evidenced by the 1992 result there.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,311
    I've bought a year of Britbox for £59.99

    Really enjoying it. I'm watching Drop the Dead Donkey and Men Behaving Badly now, which I remember both being very modern and contemporary at the time but seem rather dated now. I get the jokes about running out of 20ps in phone boxes and British Rail but I'm not sure everyone else will.

    Still very funny though. No eggshells, culture war or special interests. Just jokes for laughs.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime Starmer....large chunks of his own party will scream racist if he advocates things like more stop and search, tougher sentencing for knife crime and drug dealing...as they do when the Tories wibble about doing such things.

    Don't they call prisoners "prison users" now LOL
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    Can we agree if nothing else that "vaxport" is a horrible word?

    Could be worse. How about the Coronavisa or Cov-ID?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,823
    Pulpstar said:

    Well, he's dropped #FBPE from his twitter bio,,,

    https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1378338963312803841

    Delusions of grandeur much.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,526

    https://twitter.com/ObserverUK/status/1378433280299520000

    Labour planning for an early election

    Quiet man turning up the volume....
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,012
    dixiedean said:

    We should all be digging him?
    The squat pen rests.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    So the possibilities.
    1 The Johnson government has already reached the "in the bunker detached from reality" phase that Thatcher reached in about 1989 and none of her successors really attained.

    2 They know it's a scam, it's never going to happen, but the calculation is that it's in their partisan interest to propose it. Either because it polls well now, or it will allow a " we're so great, we don't need to do this after all" moment in three months' time.

    I must have missed something else for 3.

    To restate the b#++@#y obvious;

    The UK has already done enough jabs to stop pretty much all the foreseeable Covid deaths; say 90%. The EU isn't there yet, but will be there in a few weeks' time.

    The UK will hit herd immunity in June and everyone who can be done will be done in July.

    The time window where vaxports are needed internally is really short. So the benefits don't outweigh the costs in cash and national cohesion.
    Option 3 is there is a small group of anti vaxxers who can be turned by convincing them that life with jabs will be brutish, nasty and short.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,526
    MaxPB said:

    Delusions of grandeur much.
    All from his mum and dads back bedroom.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,806
    edited April 2021

    Could be worse. How about the Coronavisa or Cov-ID?
    Vaxport is an excellent word. Does exactly what is says on the tin, and reduces two concepts into one word, highly comprehensibly. An absolute model for any new word

    You only have to hear it once, or see it, and you get what it probably means

    The problem is that it has been taken by several companies (it seems), and I wonder if they can enforce some intellectual property-rights? Can you copyright a new word?!
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited April 2021
    Leon said:

    Vaxport is an excellent word. Does exactly what is says on the tin, and reduces two concepts into one word, highly comprehensibly. An absolute model for any new word

    You only have to hear it once, or see it, and you get what it probably means
    You might almost call it an example of a passportmanteau...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,132

    I'm watching Drop the Dead Donkey

    Getting ready for GBN...
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,012

    https://twitter.com/ObserverUK/status/1378433280299520000

    Labour planning for an early election

    And they are not wrong to do so. Election fever starts early these days.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,929

    https://twitter.com/ObserverUK/status/1378433280299520000

    Labour planning for an early election

    I hope he's not indoors when he takes that mask off.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    justin124 said:

    The Carmarthen seat would be a likely Plaid hold - and Pembroke would be vulnerable to Labour in a reasonable year as evidenced by the 1992 result there.
    You think? Carmarthen East is a marginal and Plaid are nowhere in Carmarthen West & S Pembs.

    The Pembroke seat's not going to Labour unless there's a fairly hefty swing (7% at a rough guess.)
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,360

    Could be worse. How about the Coronavisa or Cov-ID?
    Cov-ID... That's good... Are you sure that you're not Peter Simple, come back to save his nation in a time of trouble?
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    At this stage who flipping knows?

    We'll see if we get any kind of announcement on Monday, but it doesn't necessarily follow that he won't change his mind after that.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    It's almost as if people were getting themselves in a tizzy over nuthin'...
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,823
    Hopefully that's true, it's amazing what the opposition actually fucking opposing the government can achieve. Hopefully Starmer realises the power of opposition, especially given that there are at least 50 Tory MPs who will vote against any of the government virus measures at any time.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,823

    https://twitter.com/ObserverUK/status/1378433280299520000

    Labour planning for an early election

    Feels a bit IDS at this point.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    Andy_JS said:

    It is a deliberate strategy in a lot of countries, like the Philippines, because they believe it's more important to give it to the people who are most likely to spread the virus.
    Not in Spain - the only 'strategy' is to mpanic about blood clots and save doses for the second shot:

    "The UK has now fully vaccinated almost double the number of people in Spain (5.2 million against 2.8 million).
    Spain continues to sit on about 1.1 million unused doses of vaccine, according to https://www.mscbs.gob.es/.../alert.../nCov/vacunaCovid19.htm
    The daily number of deaths across the UK on Friday was 10; in Almería province alone, it was 7."
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    So it seems after one cold afternoon in a garden, it's the 1920s redux. Great - hyperinflation and the charleston and no doubt we'll all be talking flappers (or something similar).

    Back in the real world, I'm sure this year will see an outpouring of normality before we get back to normal. Perceived hedonism, rather like imagining one has become enormously attractive to the opposite or same sex (delete as appropriate), is probably a latent effect of lockdown stress brought on by having too much time and not doing anything constructive with it.

    If you need guidance on what to do:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FB0zofK6tDM
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,689
    MaxPB said:

    Nice, mine was of the Thames but I wasn't lucky enough to be next to a window so it was just other desks/people really.
    I used to be based in an office just at the south end of Tower Bridge. From my desk I had views of the river, the bridge, Tower of London, City Hall and that hotel across the river that looks more like it should be the HQ of the Stasi.

    We could also see guns being fired outside the Tower on royal birthdays and the like.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,012
    edited April 2021

    Kudos for not involving yourself in any of that vulgar appropriating business.
    How kind but he isn't mine to give away. And he was better than all of us. But I shall go away and read about Doctor Kerlin's bag, and think Easter thoughts about how good he was at translating old saxon into modern saxon.

  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    It's almost as if people were getting themselves in a tizzy over nuthin'...
    Only - if the wretched things are deemed unnecessary for indoor activity then why on Earth would you want them for open air events?

    Either the Government's not briefed all this to the rag and they're printing rumours, or ministers haven't a clue what they're doing.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,311
    Scott_xP said:

    Getting ready for GBN...
    DTDD should be popular on here.

    There's a lot of amateur bookmaking in it.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,929
    True. Please don't let me jinx anything.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,657

    So the possibilities.
    1 The Johnson government has already reached the "in the bunker detached from reality" phase that Thatcher reached in about 1989 and none of her successors really attained.

    2 They know it's a scam, it's never going to happen, but the calculation is that it's in their partisan interest to propose it. Either because it polls well now, or it will allow a " we're so great, we don't need to do this after all" moment in three months' time.

    I must have missed something else for 3.

    To restate the b#++@#y obvious;

    The UK has already done enough jabs to stop pretty much all the foreseeable Covid deaths; say 90%. The EU isn't there yet, but will be there in a few weeks' time.
    Agree with you on Vaccine Passport.

    I don't believe the EU will be at "stop 90% of deaths" point in a few weeks. There are a lot of assumptions in that statement.

    If we take the point as 50% of adult population (ie equivalent to our groups 1..9), then for EU that is 180m people jabbed twice, dependant on policy. Or 360m jabs.

    Minus 76m done. Leaves 285m to do.

    To reach that in 70 days (10 weeks) will be a rate of 0.9% of the population jabbed per day on average.

    The best rate so far is 0.25% or so on occasional days,

    It is going to take until the end of April to ramp that up at all significantly, and that means it needs to get a lot higher to generate the 10 week date.

    So I would say it will be at least the end of May or into June before it gets to that point.

    J&J single jab will help. Chaos in the order of jabbing to not follow medical priorities will undermine. More chaotic health info nearly everywhere than UK will hinder.

    Plus it needs a month extra for vaccines to get through the system and immunity to build.

    So I am not very optimistic.



  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,482
    I presume the Prime Minister is picking up from the Conservative grassroots the proposed vaccine passport scheme may not be as popular as when first promulgated.

    One might argue it's the sign of an effective Prime Minister that he or she isn't wholly inflexible and is prepared to be persuaded to change a view based on argument.

    One might also argue it's the sign of an ineffective Prime Minister who is prepared to dump whatever he or she believed in if it no longer commands a majority.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    I hope he's not indoors when he takes that mask off.
    So, the grey man is going to be turning up the volume....
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,219

    At this stage who flipping knows?

    We'll see if we get any kind of announcement on Monday, but it doesn't necessarily follow that he won't change his mind after that.
    Hmmmm...

    So

    1) Website/newspaper announces x will do y
    2) Tons of clicks
    3) Website/newspaper announces x will not do y
    4) Tons of clicks

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,548
    MaxPB said:

    Hopefully that's true, it's amazing what the opposition actually fucking opposing the government can achieve. Hopefully Starmer realises the power of opposition, especially given that there are at least 50 Tory MPs who will vote against any of the government virus measures at any time.
    Starmer is on the fence on this issue saying it may be unbritish whilst his shadow cabinet brief that they support it, whereas the LibDems came out and said 'no way' to this bonkers, illiberal idea.

This discussion has been closed.